Are we partially responsible for the rise of the Billionaire owners?

[Joker]

This probably won't be a popular opinion, but for all the complaints about billionaire Sheikhs and Russians (which are in some cases justified), you can't deny that we as a football club were also lucky to be in the right place at the right time to benefit from the formation of the Premiership (in fact we were one of a select number of clubs pushing for the Premier League to breakaway from the Football League).

Moreover, the very fact that we are located in London, one of richest regions in the UK, and that we are particularly popular amongst the North London/Home Counties affluent middle classes (thanks in part to Nick Hornby's book) means that our revenue generating potential is much greater than, for example, certain teams in the industrial North/Midlands, which have been decimated by factory closures as the UK economy specialised in Services rather than manufacturing (and obviously the South East benefited enormously from that).

All this means is that the only way for other clubs to break through the oligopoly at the top of the Premiership is by getting bought by a foreign billionaire who can pump a lot of money into the club. They can't do it organically, and given the revenues that can be gained from UCL qualification, there's a feedback loop that simply entrenches our position at the top (we qualify for the UCL, gain the revenues, which increases the gap between us and the rest, making it more likely that we can continue to qualify for the UCL, and so on and so forth).

Sometimes it easy to forget the enormous advantages that we as a club have been blessed with when bemoaning the "luck" of others who happen to have been taken over by a rich businessman, but we as a club have not been passive bystanders in this play. We have been active participants, and our own greed back in the early 90s helped set the wheels in motion and has come back to bite us in the arse.

[Kano]

that doesn't make any sense

if we are 'lucky', why are we 'responsible'?

also, chelsea are in london and man city were given a brand new stadium for free, already have a huge following, so generating money isn't an issue in manchester.

[Injury Time]

No.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

No.

[GP]

Nope

[LDG]

No.

[Kano]

shall we start a poll?

[LDG]

shall we start a poll?

No.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:haha:

[Kano]

No.

:-|

[Gervinho's Forehead]

Fuck no.

[Joker]

We can't continue to criticise the "greed" of other clubs without acknowledging the greed of our own club first. I've already mentioned the formation of the EPL (which has our fingerprints all over), going back further in history what about the dodgy way we got promoted to the top division after the war, with Herbert Norris' political influence despite finishing 5th? No club's whiter than white.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

We can't continue to criticise the "greed" of other clubs without acknowledging the greed of our own club first. I've already mentioned the formation of the EPL (which has our fingerprints all over), going back further in history what about the dodgy way we got promoted to the top division after the war, with Herbert Norris' political influence despite finishing 5th? No club's whiter than white.

Oh dear.

Would say I'm shocked at the lengths you go too to discredit the club, but then I remember to whom I'm responding.

[Joker]

Oh dear.

Would say I'm shocked at the lengths you go too to discredit the club, but then I remember to whom I'm responding.

I'm hardly discrediting the club, but there's this idea that we're the custodians of the game, and have always behaved with class and honour, while the noveau rich clubs are the ones destroying the game. I'm simply saying we've contributed to the destruction of the game as well, along with teams like Liverpool, Utd, Everton and all the clubs who wanted to breakaway from the football league. I'm not saying we are the worst culprits, but we're not flawless by any means.

[Injury Time]

Joker, quit while you are behind, think of yourself as Arsene in 10th, need a plan B that makes sense, that has some strain of logic and that we can understand.

[Kano]

Oh dear.

Would say I'm shocked at the lengths you go too to discredit the club, but then I remember to whom I'm responding.

a man city supporter will always try to discredit our club

[Olivier's xmas twist]

a man city supporter will always try to discredit our club

Pretty much.

[Kano]

that's free market sycophants to you

[Özim]

.
I agree with this 100%

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You're the worst sycophant of the lot. All you ever do is post "pretty much" or "well said" to whoever criticises someone you don't like.

Pretty much :coffee:

[Letters]

*sigh*

Shall I just close this thread?

[LDG]

Nice dot.

[Joker]

a man city supporter will always try to discredit our club

So to say that we're not whiter than white makes me a City supporter?

Do you disagree that the formation of the Premier League set the conditions in that has allowed the buying up of clubs by billionaire owners? And we were one of the clubs pushing for it as well as it would be beneficial for the club on a personal level. Obviously, we didn't envisage that the monster we contributed in the creation of would go so out of control that we'd become one of the victims.

I have never said Arsenal are primarily or even mainly responsible for the problems of modern football. A lot of clubs (indeed most of the teams currently in the Premiership) also bare responsibility. And when I criticise the decisions made I am not criticising "Arsenal" but the greed displayed by those who run it. I don't see how that makes me anti-Arsenal.

[Letters]

*sigh*

I kinda see where you're coming from, Joker
Obviously as a 'big club' we were behind measures which would help to keep us a 'big club'.
The PL and expansion of the CL have been awful for football to the point where the only way City could have competed was with a billionaire backer.

I'm not sure you can point blame anywhere really, we were hardly going to oppose measures which gave us more money in a game where money was increasingly correlated with success.

[Joker]

*sigh*

I kinda see where you're coming from, Joker
Obviously as a 'big club' we were behind measures which would help to keep us a 'big club'.
The PL and expansion of the CL have been awful for football to the point where the only way City could have competed was with a billionaire backer.

I'm not sure you can point blame anywhere really, we were hardly going to oppose measures which gave us more money in a game where money was increasingly correlated with success.

You're right that from a purely self interested viewpoint the decisions the board took are entirely "rational". This is why I said the constant criticisms of the Noveau Rich clubs and accusations that they've ruined football don't stand up, if you consider a longer timeframe than simply post 2003 (when Abramovich took over). Everyone in the top level of football has to take responsibility, because although it was individually rational to create the Premier League for the big clubs, from the viewpoint of football itself, it was the wrong move. In the same way that although the Oligarch financed model may benefit individual clubs, in the long run football will suffer.

[Kano]

So to say that we're not whiter than white makes me a City supporter?
No.

[Joker]

No.

Well given that's the main point I've been trying to make I don't see why you've been accusing me of being a City fan.

[Özim]

so generating money isn't an issue in manchester.
That's what Liverpool thought about Liverpool and then they ran out of hubcaps.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That's what Liverpool thought about Liverpool and then they ran out of hubcaps.

:haha:

[Marc Overmars]

Charlie the Sycophant. :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Charlie the Sycophant. :bow:

Pretty much.

[Letters]

You're right that from a purely self interested viewpoint the decisions the board took are entirely "rational". This is why I said the constant criticisms of the Noveau Rich clubs and accusations that they've ruined football don't stand up, if you consider a longer timeframe than simply post 2003 (when Abramovich took over). Everyone in the top level of football has to take responsibility, because although it was individually rational to create the Premier League for the big clubs, from the viewpoint of football itself, it was the wrong move. In the same way that although the Oligarch financed model may benefit individual clubs, in the long run football will suffer.
You can't blame Arsenal (or any big club) for pushing for the PL
You can't really blame Chelsea or City for operating the way they do - it's morally repugnant (IMO in a different way to big clubs whose status has been earned by previous success) but if it's within the rules and the billionaires want to play then you can't blame the club for doing it. There's no other way to progress in the modern game.

None of this is the clubs' fault, surely the finger should be pointed at bodies like the FA and UEFA who have sat back and let football get like this. You can't trust clubs to self regulate, someone above the clubs has to stop these sorts of things happening. And they haven't.

[Power n Glory]

I think Joker is getting at something here. In general, I think most of us have a problem with the way clubs are run and the way football is in general and where it’s gone. It’s over dependent on transfers and teams acquiring the best players from other teams. We’ve had our hand to play in the system because Wenger was one of the first to start bringing in talented players from overseas. We helped pave the way for foreign players and coaches over here and as a result, other clubs have adopted our methods and it’s now become a scramble for who can acquire who from where. Obviously, it costs money to buy players and as a result we’re now seeing clubs get into deep financial trouble and needing a overseas investors to bail them out.

We’ve made a major change in our policy over the years and we’re now about developing players, but other clubs haven’ adopted that model. We’re calling for the FFP rules to be enforced but as one of the pundits said on Sunday Supplement, that’s a cartel and keeps the rich rich and poor poor. There isn’t an easy solution to this. I’ve always admired the American sports system, even though not perfect, the wage cap and draft system means even the lower teams get a crack at holding some of the best talent coming through the college system. I also admire the fact that the coach in American sports has a major role to play in the team and has to squeeze the best out of his team and has to apply all his tactical knowledge to get results. We’re just not seeing that in football these days because it boils down to coaches just buying up the best talent. It’s why so many coaches in England are poor because they rely heavily on transfers and not development and tactics.

[fakeyank]

I think Joker is getting at something here. In general, I think most of us have a problem with the way clubs are run and the way football is in general and where it’s gone. It’s over dependent on transfers and teams acquiring the best players from other teams. We’ve had our hand to play in the system because Wenger was one of the first to start bringing in talented players from overseas. We helped pave the way for foreign players and coaches over here and as a result, other clubs have adopted our methods and it’s now become a scramble for who can acquire who from where. Obviously, it costs money to buy players and as a result we’re now seeing clubs get into deep financial trouble and needing a overseas investors to bail them out.

We’ve made a major change in our policy over the years and we’re now about developing players, but other clubs haven’ adopted that model. We’re calling for the FFP rules to be enforced but as one of the pundits said on Sunday Supplement, that’s a cartel and keeps the rich rich and poor poor. There isn’t an easy solution to this. I’ve always admired the American sports system, even though not perfect, the wage cap and draft system means even the lower teams get a crack at holding some of the best talent coming through the college system. I also admire the fact that the coach in American sports has a major role to play in the team and has to squeeze the best out of his team and has to apply all his tactical knowledge to get results. We’re just not seeing that in football these days because it boils down to coaches just buying up the best talent. It’s why so many coaches in England are poor because they rely heavily on transfers and not development and tactics.

America :scarf:

[Xhaka Can’t]

America :scarf:

They're also fat.

[KSE Comedy Club]

To the op.

No, no we're not.

It's the FA, UEFA, etc that allow these billionaires to buy clubs then piss their millions away buying whoever they want for huge sums and then writing them off the next season if they're no good, without any financial constraints.

/thread.

[GP]

To the op.

No, no we're not.

It's the FA, UEFA, etc that allow these billionaires to buy clubs then piss their millions away buying whoever they want for huge sums and then writing them off the next season if they're no good, without any financial constraints.

/thread.

Indeed.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

its ramseys fault.