Wenger is the scapegoat for the Arsenal board.

[BlindFaith_8]

All this sack Wenger or resign Wenger is not going to solve anything, they would just bring in another yes man stooge. The deep rooted problem is one parasite namely Stan Fucking Kroenke, he is the one person who has single handedly destroyed our club not Wenger. Wenger is merely the scapegoat and I actually feel sorry for Arsene because despite him knowing the truth, he has at all times acted with dignity and respect and has never shyed away from the media spotlight. Kroneke is building a vast fortune from our club, he is accountable for the misery we have endured for several seasons and more. He is an investor who is maximising his wealth from the club to increase his net worth. This **** doesnt give a single fuck about Arsenal, he hardly comes to the games and has always kept himself out of the limelight, letting others address the issues. Arsenal is just an unlimited money prinitng machine for this greedy ****. We have no other choice but to boycott the next home match with all 60K fans outside marching in protest chanting to the theme "FUCK OFF KRONEKE" "FUCK OFF KRONEKE" "FUCK OFF KRONEKE" "FUCK OFF KRONEKE" AND "SACK THE BOARD".

[Cripps_orig]

Wenger is just as much to blame as Kroenke. More so imo cos I don't really give a shit about off the pitch stuff. Only on the pitch and that's Wengers responsibility

[BlindFaith_8]

But if the board are not backing him financially and asking him to sell his best players each season, surely that's not down to Wenger, he is working with a shoestring budget compared to Chels and United and City. The problem is we have bought quantity rather than quality, yes that is bad management but the board have given Wenger a free role within the club as long as he finishes 4th and delivers champions league. He is being asked to sort the contracts out and that has been a major disaster, he has been offering high wages for average players yet he sells is best players. The board have let him loose and allowed him to create this problem, but they dont give a toss as long as the money keeps pouring in. What other board would allow thier manager that much control? They should have hired a director of football but they bottled it.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The Board in my opinion have not financially backed him, but then again, he shouldn't have used the resources that were available to buy absolute garbage and offer huge contracts to the likes of Gervinho, Squillaci and Chamakh.

The mentality of the team is also all wrong - and that comes from Wenger. And it has gone on for so long now I don't think he can turn it around with or without financial support.

[Mr. Lahey]

take money out of the equation and Wenger is still shit end of the story. stop wasting your time writing about the board as well, they have come out countless number of times stating that he has money to spend. Wenger himself has also said on more than one occasion, that he has been given money and he has given it straight back. he has a washed up has been who is living off his past glory.

[Marc Overmars]

Wenget is not a scapegoat for the board, he is a direct extension of them.

They all sing from the same songsheet however the only one influencing things on the pitch is the manager. We've churned out shit performance after shit performance this season culminating in the horror show on Tuesday night. I'm no fan of Gazidis and co but when I see such a poor and uninspiring team there's only one man I look to and it's not any of them. Sooner or later you've got to expect the manager to get a response from his players but it hasn't happened yet.

We need someone fresh at the helm, fuck the board, they'll sit there and sign the cheques but it's the manager who gets the best out of his team and Wenget hasn't done it for a long time.

The lack of resources argument doesn't really wash anymore for me when there's so much wrong happening on the pitch to begin with.

[Niall_Quinn]

Kroenke is here BECAUSE of Wenger isn't he? The ideal manager to fulfil Stan's ambitions for his own pocket. I agree. The thought Kroenke would hire a Mancini isn't credible. Avram Grant maybe. But could Grant keep things barely afloat as Wenger has managed? Because if it really goes downhill and the club gets relegated (which is inevitable if we keep selling our best players) then even Stan's plan goes to shit. So they will be looking for a talented yes man. Somebody who can get the fans onside for maybe 2 years. That's the only reason I think Kroenke would consider changing Wenger - to buy time. But Wenger surely reamains his ideal choice.

[Xhaka Can’t]

take money out of the equation and Wenger is still shit end of the story. stop wasting your time writing about the board as well, they have come out countless number of times stating that he has money to spend. Wenger himself has also said on more than one occasion, that he has been given money and he has given it straight back. he has a washed up has been who is living off his past glory.

I dont't trust Wenger in the transfer market now - but I don't know how you can trot out the line about him having money to spend. Yes they came out with those words, but they were empty words - we had to sell to buy the money they spoke of was never there and the statements that are being made now support that. The statements now are all about money being available because of these great new front loaded commercial deals providing further indication that there was no money available.

Wenger's time is gone, but lets not rewrite history indicating there were bountiful resouces available to him - there were not, but he should have done better with what was available.

[GP]

I wouldn't trust him to buy £1 fish

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I wouldn't trust him to buy £1 fish

Yeah, tell im go buy you a dairy milk, he come back with Sainsbury's cheap own brand and a few packs of them 2.

[AKBapologist]

When Wenger finally goes, maybe we'll finally have a manger who could tell the owner to fuck off...

Huh, wait.

sent from a fone

[Kano]

All this sack Wenger or resign Wenger is not going to solve anything, they would just bring in another yes man stooge. The deep rooted problem is one parasite namely Stan Fucking Kroenke, he is the one person who has single handedly destroyed our club not Wenger. Wenger is merely the scapegoat and I actually feel sorry for Arsene because despite him knowing the truth, he has at all times acted with dignity and respect and has never shyed away from the media spotlight. Kroneke is building a vast fortune from our club, he is accountable for the misery we have endured for several seasons and more. He is an investor who is maximising his wealth from the club to increase his net worth. This **** doesnt give a single fuck about Arsenal, he hardly comes to the games and has always kept himself out of the limelight, letting others address the issues. Arsenal is just an unlimited money prinitng machine for this greedy ****. We have no other choice but to boycott the next home match with all 60K fans outside marching in protest chanting to the theme "FUCK OFF KRONEKE" "FUCK OFF KRONEKE" "FUCK OFF KRONEKE" "FUCK OFF KRONEKE" AND "SACK THE BOARD".
it was there from the beginning when he bought the shares from Granada TV for the internet rights, clearly looking to the future payoffs.

PHW was roundly applauded by many arsenal fans when the idea of kroenke buying into the club and possibly taking over was first mooted, only becoming the fall guy when usmanov chipped in. they all share the same ideals which even to a certain extent is fine, even if it meant the degrading of the teams standard as it has done. because what has really griped the fans is the fact the manager is no longer able to make the most of the materials at his disposal, which far from being billionaire material is still considerable enough to perform better than we have for a few seasons at least. most of us wouldn't be so concerned about the off field activities if we saw that at least the guys on the pitch gave a damn.

whether it is kroenke or usmanov we are now stuck in the billionaire owner playground for the foreseeable future. many of us agree that the current owners end game is maximise their own returns before selling it on and given the size of our assets alone, only the mega rich will be able to buy into us when we are sold. who is to say the next guys will see it any differently?

wenger has made a scapegoat of himself mainly because of his refusal to acknowledge the lack of duty his players have to the paying public and his own myopic approach. football is supposed to be an escape into a world of athletes living out the fantasies we could never achieve and from the sunday league to the prem the bare minimum satisfaction we'll get is from effort and commitment to giving your all. that hasn't been seen at our club for a while which has resulted in this horrible mess and even that basic turnaround on the pitch would shut a lot of us up.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

it was there from the beginning when he bought the shares from Granada TV for the internet rights, clearly looking to the future payoffs.

PHW was roundly applauded by many arsenal fans when the idea of kroenke buying into the club and possibly taking over was first mooted, only becoming the fall guy when usmanov chipped in. they all share the same ideals which even to a certain extent is fine, even if it meant the degrading of the teams standard as it has done. because what has really griped the fans is the fact the manager is no longer able to make the most of the materials at his disposal, which far from being billionaire material is still considerable enough to perform better than we have for a few seasons at least. most of us wouldn't be so concerned about the off field activities if we saw that at least the guys on the pitch gave a damn.

whether it is kroenke or usmanov we are now stuck in the billionaire owner playground for the foreseeable future. many of us agree that the current owners end game is maximise their own returns before selling it on and given the size of our assets alone, only the mega rich will be able to buy into us when we are sold. who is to say the next guys will see it any differently?

wenger has made a scapegoat of himself mainly because of his refusal to acknowledge the lack of duty his players have to the paying public and his own myopic approach. football is supposed to be an escape into a world of athletes living out the fantasies we could never achieve and from the sunday league to the prem we only gain satisfaction from effort and commitment to giving your all. that hasn't been seen at our club for a while which has resulted in this horrible mess and even that basic turnaround on the pitch would shut a lot of us up.

Right you are Tezza, right you are.

[-Xs-]

But if the board are not backing him financially and asking him to sell his best players each season, surely that's not down to Wenger, he is working with a shoestring budget compared to Chels and United and City. The problem is we have bought quantity rather than quality, yes that is bad management but the board have given Wenger a free role within the club as long as he finishes 4th and delivers champions league. He is being asked to sort the contracts out and that has been a major disaster, he has been offering high wages for average players yet he sells is best players. The board have let him loose and allowed him to create this problem, but they dont give a toss as long as the money keeps pouring in. What other board would allow thier manager that much control? They should have hired a director of football but they bottled it.

So what you are saying is, it's the boards fault that Wenger is incompetent? I don't buy that at all.

The training, the tactics, the motivation, the players - this is all completely down to Wenger and it is the area of most concern. The board are parasites, yes, but there is only little bit blame you can attribute to them for shit performances on the pitch. It's not the board playing Ramsey and Gervinho game after game.

[Niall_Quinn]

it was there from the beginning when he bought the shares from Granada TV for the internet rights, clearly looking to the future payoffs.

PHW was roundly applauded by many arsenal fans when the idea of kroenke buying into the club and possibly taking over was first mooted, only becoming the fall guy when usmanov chipped in. they all share the same ideals which even to a certain extent is fine, even if it meant the degrading of the teams standard as it has done. because what has really griped the fans is the fact the manager is no longer able to make the most of the materials at his disposal, which far from being billionaire material is still considerable enough to perform better than we have for a few seasons at least. most of us wouldn't be so concerned about the off field activities if we saw that at least the guys on the pitch gave a damn.

whether it is kroenke or usmanov we are now stuck in the billionaire owner playground for the foreseeable future. many of us agree that the current owners end game is maximise their own returns before selling it on and given the size of our assets alone, only the mega rich will be able to buy into us when we are sold. who is to say the next guys will see it any differently?

wenger has made a scapegoat of himself mainly because of his refusal to acknowledge the lack of duty his players have to the paying public and his own myopic approach. football is supposed to be an escape into a world of athletes living out the fantasies we could never achieve and from the sunday league to the prem the bare minimum satisfaction we'll get is from effort and commitment to giving your all. that hasn't been seen at our club for a while which has resulted in this horrible mess and even that basic turnaround on the pitch would shut a lot of us up.

A good appreciation of the multiple issues (problems) in play now. The big worry is the fans falling into a pretty obvious trap. If Wenger goes, for the reasons you outline rather than all the reasons being plucked out of thin air without supporting evidence, the fans who have called for his head will have to give the new guy some credit if he corrects the failings on the pitch but still can't land the success demanded. But I think it will be a case of rolling on to the next batch of complaints and targeting the new guy if success is not delivered quickly. And then the next guy and then the next.

It has taken the chavs a lot time to identify the true source of the cancer in their club. It will be the same for many fans at Arsenal the sound of it and I'm not talking about fans here on GW but more the idiots you see posting to the media sites with their incomprehensibly dumb take on what's going on at the club. I can see the board hiding behind the manager for a long time to come, regardless of who the manager is.

I see Pep is using us as a negotiating chip with the big, rich clubs one of which he's certain to end up at. There's no hope of him coming here, not a prayer. Not unless he's actively looking to see his gold plated reputation machine sanded by the bastards in our boardroom. Pep and Arsenal are possibly the most unlikely match ever. Shame Roy Hodgeson got the England job, a shame for Kroenke I mean because that's the calibre we'll see coming through the door to replace Wenger. Unless they drop the pretence and go straight for Tim Geithner.

When Wenger goes I think we'll rapidly transform into a very ordinary club. I don't mean in just the football sense, but the history and the tradition, the way of doing things. We should never have let a yank anywhere near our club. To follow that by handing it over to a Russian is unthinkable but the most likely outcome.

[AKBapologist]

So what you are saying is, it's the boards fault that Wenger is incompetent? I don't buy that at all.

It's the board/owners fault that someone who's * incompetent* is still managing the club. Why is this so difficult for some to understand?

[Marc Overmars]

We need a proper football man on the board, someone who won't be afraid to lean on the manager if needs be. That's where we've lost sight of what's needed to win and why this club celebrates mediocrity as it brings in a buck or 2.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

A good appreciation of the multiple issues (problems) in play now. The big worry is the fans falling into a pretty obvious trap. If Wenger goes, for the reasons you outline rather than all the reasons being plucked out of thin air without supporting evidence, the fans who have called for his head will have to give the new guy some credit if he corrects the failings on the pitch but still can't land the success demanded. But I think it will be a case of rolling on to the next batch of complaints and targeting the new guy if success is not delivered quickly. And then the next guy and then the next.

It has taken the chavs a lot time to identify the true source of the cancer in their club. It will be the same for many fans at Arsenal the sound of it and I'm not talking about fans here on GW but more the idiots you see posting to the media sites with their incomprehensibly dumb take on what's going on at the club. I can see the board hiding behind the manager for a long time to come, regardless of who the manager is.

I see Pep is using us as a negotiating chip with the big, rich clubs one of which he's certain to end up at. There's no hope of him coming here, not a prayer. Not unless he's actively looking to see his gold plated reputation machine sanded by the bastards in our boardroom. Pep and Arsenal are possibly the most unlikely match ever. Shame Roy Hodgeson got the England job, a shame for Kroenke I mean because that's the calibre we'll see coming through the door to replace Wenger. Unless they drop the pretence and go straight for Tim Geithner.

When Wenger goes I think we'll rapidly transform into a very ordinary club. I don't mean in just the football sense, but the history and the tradition, the way of doing things. We should never have let a yank anywhere near our club. To follow that by handing it over to a Russian is unthinkable but the most likely outcome.

:gp:

[Mr. Lahey]

I dont't trust Wenger in the transfer market now - but I don't know how you can trot out the line about him having money to spend. Yes they came out with those words, but they were empty words - we had to sell to buy the money they spoke of was never there and the statements that are being made now support that. The statements now are all about money being available because of these great new front loaded commercial deals providing further indication that there was no money available.

Wenger's time is gone, but lets not rewrite history indicating there were bountiful resouces available to him - there were not, but he should have done better with what was available.

I dont trust him either - however I am not arguing about bountiful resources, he had ENOUGH resources to use regardless if it was generated through commercial deals now or through the sale of players previously...there has always been money to spend - I believe he chooses not to. Wengers vision lines up with the Boards targets - he doesnt believe that the solution is to buy, it is to develop, he has been hammering that into our heads from day one. Even if he was told that he could not spend, he has been making millions knowing how this, he is just as bad as the rest of them and in no way is he a scapegoat.

[Syn]

Another dupe account. Jesus, how many do you have now? 80?

[LDG]

Another dupe account. Jesus, how many do you have now? 80?

No, I have more than that mate.

[LDG]

DOH!

[Power n Glory]

I dont trust him either - however I am not arguing about bountiful resources, he had ENOUGH resources to use regardless if it was generated through commercial deals now or through the sale of players previously...there has always been money to spend - I believe he chooses not to. Wengers vision lines up with the Boards targets - he doesnt believe that the solution is to buy, it is to develop, he has been hammering that into our heads from day one. Even if he was told that he could not spend, he has been making millions knowing how this, he is just as bad as the rest of them and in no way is he a scapegoat.

I agree with that. He hasn't had crazy money to spend, but he's had enough to replace key players and he's chosen not to use it because he's had faith in the young kids on the bench to take over. That's his philosophy and always has been because he apes the Ajax club set up and that’s always been his vision for Arsenal. We’re seeing a huge influx of players now because the old team he had faith in have left (RVP, Nasri, Cesc, Song) or he’s finally realised certain players just aren’t good enough (Denilson, Bendy, Djourou, Vela). Money has always been there and it’s not because of the new sponsorship deal that the Board are saying fund are available because that money hasn’t even kicked in yet.

We spent a lot over the past two windows, wholesale type buys and it’s necessary now because he’s refused to spend a little on repair jobs and now the roof has caved in. When Vermaelen was out injured for a season or when RVP was out and we’ve struggled during the season, I don’t believe that Wenger has been denied £10m - £15m to spend on a replacements. A player like Merts, Arteta or Podolski wouldn’t be so bad if they were brought in during a January transfer window to help out while we’re tired and wouldn’t cost much either. Players like that sprinkled in with guys like Cesc, Nasri, RVP and Song would have helped us during the season and given us some options off the bench at least. But as seen, Wenger can’t manage a big squad and has no idea to rotate players which is why he avoids buying players that would bring competition to other first teamers. When he has such options, he makes stupid decisions, as see with Gervinho and Ramsey or he goes to the extreme and freezes them out of the squad totally (Arshavin, Chamakh, Squallci). That’s just bad management. He either makes bizarre choices or runs players into the ground until they break.

Before we moved to the Emirates, Wenger has always been applauded for being able to build a championship winning team on a small budget and his ideas haven’t changed. We haven’t had the sort of money to compete with Chelsea and City but we’ve had enough to buy the sort calibre players that dominate the first team now. They’re not expensive, not terrible either but no way are they of the same class that we used to have. If we’d have made one or two smart buys each season to help lighten the load, I believe we’d have won more and certain players would have stayed.

[LDG]

I agree with that. He hasn't had crazy money to spend, but he's had enough to replace key players and he's chosen not to use it because he's had faith in the young kids on the bench to take over. That's his philosophy and always has been because he apes the Ajax club set up and that’s always been his vision for Arsenal. We’re seeing a huge influx of players now because the old team he had faith in have left (RVP, Nasri, Cesc, Song) or he’s finally realised certain players just aren’t good enough (Denilson, Bendy, Djourou, Vela). Money has always been there and it’s not because of the new sponsorship deal that the Board are saying fund are available because that money hasn’t even kicked in yet.

We spent a lot over the past two windows, wholesale type buys and it’s necessary now because he’s refused to spend a little on repair jobs and now the roof has caved in. When Vermaelen was out injured for a season or when RVP was out and we’ve struggled during the season, I don’t believe that Wenger has been denied £10m - £15m to spend on a replacements. A player like Merts, Arteta or Podolski wouldn’t be so bad if they were brought in during a January transfer window to help out while we’re tired and wouldn’t cost much either. Players like that sprinkled in with guys like Cesc, Nasri, RVP and Song would have helped us during the season and given us some options off the bench at least. But as seen, Wenger can’t manage a big squad and has no idea to rotate players which is why he avoids buying players that would bring competition to other first teamers. When he has such options, he makes stupid decisions, as see with Gervinho and Ramsey or he goes to the extreme and freezes them out of the squad totally (Arshavin, Chamakh, Squallci). That’s just bad management. He either makes bizarre choices or runs players into the ground until they break.

Before we moved to the Emirates, Wenger has always been applauded for being able to build a championship winning team on a small budget and his ideas haven’t changed. We haven’t had the sort of money to compete with Chelsea and City but we’ve had enough to buy the sort calibre players that dominate the first team now. They’re not expensive, not terrible either but no way are they of the same class that we used to have. If we’d have made one or two smart buys each season to help lighten the load, I believe we’d have won more and certain players would have stayed.

True.

It's probably my biggest bug bear over the last 5 years. That we didn't spend 15/20 mil in January to keep us strong, and keep us going. We had the league in our sights twice, and going strong in other competitions, and all we needed was to bolster the squad instead of gambling on form, fitness and unproven players.

[IBK]

@ the OP.

I would dearly like to know what you are blaming the 'board' for in contrast to Wenger. There are 3 potential criticisms:

1. Under investment in the team.

This argument would go, presumably, that the board is denying AW the funds that he needs to achieve success. But to me this just doesn't make any sense. Firstly - if the 'board' is so averse to spending money, why allow the manager to piss away millions - more than everyone but the top 2 or 3 teams in the country -on wages for mediocre players who represent litttle more than gambles on the manager's part? The amount we pay in wages is simply inconsistent with a parsimonious approach. At best (and I don't believe this for a minute) the board might be saying 'here's your budget' and having spent this on wages, there is nothing more available for transfers. But even in this scenario, Wenger would be at fault for using his resources in a completely irresponsible manner, surely? Do people really think that our nonsensical 'wage equality' policy that results in our top players not being paid market rate (and subsequently leaving) is down to the board?

Secondly - and noone has answered this point adequately - what possible motivation can AW have to stay if he is being made to look like a chump because he is denied funds? Some might say because he gets paid more than his top players. But if this is true, then I regard him as just as much at fault by putting his own wage interests above the interests of the team - he is certainly no 'scapegoat' in this scenario.

2. Being made to sell our top players

The argument here goes that Wenger is forced to sell his top players so that the club can show a healthy profit. Again, I just don't buy this. I accept that the club's policy might be that it cannot compete with the wages offered by the richest clubs. But what I cannot accept is that if this is so, Wenger is not as intimately involved in this as the board. Again, why not walk rather than be made to look like a mug? But further, look beyond the RVP's and the Nasri's, and look instead at Fabregas - whom AW helped to leave; Song - who was clearly not a wage issue, and Walcott - who is not demanding anything beyond the means of the club to pay. These are managers' choices, not board choices. And they show that Wenger is quite prepared to let his talent go. It is far more logical to suppose that in 9/10 cases player departures are manager's choices. Particularly when it is known to one and all that Wenger enjoys unprecedented influence at AFC.

3. Lack of ambition

Now this is a relevant criticism. I have said on the other thread that owners and board are guilty of sin for the mismanagement of our club. But to think that Wenger is a pawn in their unabitious game is ridiculous. We well know Wenger's philosophy as regards overpayment for players. Do you really believe that his comments about 4th place being a trophy are dictated to him by the board? Get real. Wenger forgives his own players' mediocrity on the pitch, and justifies his own mediocrity as a manager by bitching about the club's inability to compete with the big boys. Well guess what? We are a big club. The second biggest by turnover in the country, with the 4th biggest wage bill. It isn't lack of funds that has won us only 6 games this season?

The board are guilty as hell of lack of ambition. But Wenger is no scapegoat in this regard.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

yeah its stan's fault:

ramsey plays on the wing
we play 4-3-3 whether its bradford or barcelona
have no tactics
team arent motivated
no determination
bizarre substitutions

OP's username fits in nicely with his state of mind.

[Globalgunner]

For me Wenger`s greatest fault is that he is a ffg egomaniac. He has never liked an idea that never comes out of his own head. This kind of person as a CEO, as a team leader of an an organisation where peoples destinies are involved is the most calamitous kind. You have seen them ruin many a company with their I know it all attitude.

First he does not allow dissent of any kind. He thinks as a former defender he knows how to organise defence......EPIC FAIL. He neither knows how to identify defensive talent, nor does he know how to train them. When everyone was calling out for Cahill 2 seasons ago he reluctantly put in a bid of 6m........6m!!!, which Bolton of course laughed out of the gate. 8m would have sealed the deal, I reckon. Wenger when questioned said later he bid 6m because that was how much Cahill was worth. An England international?. 6 months later he now paid 10m for Kosceilny who had not played a single game for France at the time. He simply cant stand the idea that someone else thinks of something that works out. He was hoping that he would prove to the whole world that Kozzer was a better buy,. adding to the Wenger legend

Secondly he has become infatuated by some new fangled football opus that he has composed in his head. A football philosophy that he had adopted after Henry left and in which the lynchpins were Cesc, Song and Diaby. These 3 have all gone now and yet he persists with it A Barcelona-lite method with infinitely worse players which eschews shooting outside the box and spontaneity from individuals. Jack is now his new muse and if not careful he will play this boy into the orthopedic home. Jack himself needs to be learning his trade from better players not having the whole team built on his shoulders. At Dortmund they have a similar player in Mario Goetze but instead of making him carry the team they bought another talented player Marco Reus to share the load. This is what good managers do. they strategise to win. Dortmund made sure they bought Reus even though Bayern were interested. If this was Arsenal we would have let United buy Reus and sold them Goetze too, citing football reasons.

3rdly.......which bullshit no hope team would allow Almunia to stink up the goalkeeping box for 3 seasons, with more shit in the wings like Fabianski and Manonne. Would believe that Eboue was a proper footballer and replaces him for comedy value with Gervinho.

Ramsey is a conundrum. I did not know much about him before he joined us but he is so limited a player i have to believe the talent was there but has been severely curtailed by a combination of the injury and bad training which have kept him back. He should have gone to United as he would have been a better player notwithstanding the injury. I also believe that his choosing us over United is one of the reasons why Wenger keeps playing him, but then again Wenger has persisted with crap players for so long before that its hard to rationalise his decisions.

lastly which team regularly does bottle jobs like us? 0-3 up at Newcastle before scraping 4-4. 1-0 with 1 minute to spare against the Pool and eboue conceded a penalty in the last 20 secs, Liverpool in the CL quarters and SendErrors messes up again, Beating the spuds 4-2 eventually 4-4. Deer in headlight performaces against United that Wigan would be ashamed of. I could go on but the list is endless. These are symptoms of structural and mental deficiencies in a team. All down to the manager. Nothing to do with the board.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I have already established in another thread is that it is Roger Daltry's fault.

[Joker]

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger insists he has always received total backing from the club's board.

Wenger's comments come after Arsenal were criticised by Uzbek billionaire Alisher Usmanov, the club's second-largest shareholder, for withholding funds from the manager.

Usmanov - whose Red & White Holdings group are not represented on the board - also hit out at the Gunners board for their decision to sell Robin van Persie to Manchester United.

"This decision was a mistake," Usmanov said. "If I am one of Wenger's players I would want to stay for the finish, but he explained Robin wanted to go to win trophies."

But Wenger is adamant he has supported the decisions from the boardroom as he believes they have put the club's best interests first.

"I believe I have always had the support from the board, and am very grateful for that," Wenger said.

"We have worked over the years in respecting in what we did, which is to always work within our financial resources.

"Therefore we made decisions which from outside looked not based on purely footballing reasons, but it was based as well on financial reasons."


It doesn't seem as if Wenger and the board are at loggerheads does it?

[LDG]

It doesn't seem as if Wenger and the board are at loggerheads does it?

Do you really think he would openly critisise the board? Really?

:haha:

[Joker]

Why hasn't he left if the board are being a hindrance? It may well be because his £7M/year salary is a strong incentive, but that just makes him a sell out. It would have been far more honourable to say "I can't work under these conditions" and leave the club, citing irreconcilable differences with the board in terms of the direction of the club.

[GP]

Do you really think he would openly critisise the board? Really?

:haha:

There's an interview a major shareholder today stating that Wenger has not had the support of the board as far as keeping players is concerned.

And no, he's not likely to openly criticise his employers.

[Kano]

Why hasn't he left if the board are being a hindrance? It may well be because his £7M/year salary is a strong incentive, but that just makes him a sell out. It would have been far more honourable to say "I can't work under these conditions" and leave the club, citing irreconcilable differences with the board in terms of the direction of the club.

who are you arguing with?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

who are you arguing with?

Himself.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It doesn't seem as if Wenger and the board are at loggerheads does it?

Yes because he is going to call the people who pay him ****s in the media.

[Power n Glory]

Arsene Wenger is hopeful that the commitment shown by five British players in signing new Arsenal contracts this week will convince Theo Walcott to stay at the club.
Jack Wilshere, Kieran Gibbs, Aaron Ramsey, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Carl Jenkinson all extended their deals on a long-term basis but Walcott’s situation remains unresolved.

Talks have stalled with Walcott demanding £100,000 a week and assurances he will be played as a centre-forward but the club are unwilling to increase their offer of a five-year deal worth £75,000 a week.

Asked if the quintet of contract extensions could break the deadlock with Walcott, Wenger said: “A little bit, I hope. [I won’t sell him in January], that is for sure. My gut feeling is that he belongs to this club and that I hope he will sign for us. I always am convinced he will stay.

“You never fix yourself a limit on financial restrictions. At the end of the day, can you pay what the player wants? And does it fit with your wage structure? I have always fought for the players to make money so I am happy when the players make big money. But it has to be made possible for the club to pay it.

“I believe the board will follow my recommendation if it is possible. We have a wage bill that has to be respected. When we go overboard and higher than it is expected, I ask the board to do it and most of the time they follow my demands.”

Despite the uncertainty around Walcott (above) and the long-term planning exhibited in handing out new deals to Wilshere — contracted now until 2018 — and the others, Wenger intriguingly opted not to confirm he would stay at the club beyond 2014.

Standard Sport understands no talks have yet begun on a new contract for Wenger, with all parties “not viewing the issue as a priority at this stage”. The manager insisted he had not told players negotiating new deals he would definitely sign a new agreement.

“I cannot give them that insurance because that decision does not depend on me,” he said. “The insurance I give them is the club have faith in them. I believe it is important that the club have these players for a longer period.

“I envisage to do well this season and to respect my full commitment for the club. I want to do well for the club as long as I am here. After that, we’ll see.”

Arsenal shareholder Alisher Usmanov this morning launched an attack on the club’s hierarchy, claiming Wenger has not “had enough support to provide his conceptions of his game in Arsenal from the board, either for transfers or for keeping players”.

But Wenger said: “I have always had the support from the board and am grateful for that. We have worked over the years in respecting what we did, which is to always work within our financial resources.

“Therefore we made decisions which from the outside looked not based on purely footballing reasons but it was based as well on financial reasons.

“If we can add one or two exceptional players, we will do it. What we do not want to do is add players just because people put us under pressure to buy.

“That is where we have to be strong. If we find a player who will give us something special, we will do it — but that will not be easy in January.”

Arsenal have no fresh injury concerns ahead of Saturday’s trip to Wigan, with Walcott set to retain his position spearheading the attack.


Related articles


http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/wenger-is-confident-walcott-will-follow-famous-five-by-extending-arsenal-story-8427115.html

Been saying this for while but I think that finally puts to bed this idea that Wenger's hands are being tied by the Board.

[Cripps_orig]

NQ :rose:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/wenger-is-confident-walcott-will-follow-famous-five-by-extending-arsenal-story-8427115.html

Been saying this for while but I think that finally puts to bed this idea that Wenger's hands are being tied by the Board.

Funny the Russian seems to think otherwise.

[-Xs-]

To be fair, the Russian will do anything to slag off the current board, but then, that's because they are big meanies.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

To be fair, the Russian will do anything to slag off the current board, but then, that's because they are big meanies.

Well id guess he know more whats happening in the club then most of us. Though i see your point about him slagging of the board.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:lol: financially restricted?

we have a £143m wage bill. thats the 4th highest in the league. where's the financial restriction in that then?

oh yeah there isn't one.

only suits the argument when people want it to.

[Syn]

4th highest in the league and we finish 3rd. Does that suit your argument?

[Özil's Panoramic View]

A distant 3rd that is and have won fuck all in years.

[Özim]

A distant 3rd that is and have won fuck all in years.
You seem to be forgetting about all those 4th place trophies, oh and don't forget it's been 15 straight seasons or something in the CL, no other club has done that.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

You seem to be forgetting about all those 4th place trophies, oh and don't forget it's been 15 straight seasons or something in the CL, no other club has done that.

Top, top, top achievement.

[Syn]

A distant 3rd that is and have won fuck all in years.

Let's stay on topic. We're talking in relation to wages spend. We're 4th highest wage spenders and we finished 3rd. In talk of inefficiency lets not ignore that especially when trying to claim others are selective.

[Syn]

Why hasn't he left if the board are being a hindrance? It may well be because his £7M/year salary is a strong incentive, but that just makes him a sell out. It would have been far more honourable to say "I can't work under these conditions" and leave the club, citing irreconcilable differences with the board in terms of the direction of the club.

I appreciate the flattery but can you stop stealing my lines? Ta.

[Syn]

:haha: you know you really should try having a discussion without having to throw personal insults.

I could easily call you any deragatory term for being a perennial Wenger apologist, but I don't do that, do I?

Go ahead. Honestly, I wouldn't care if it was sandwiched between a decent point like mine.

Also the world is ending any minute now so I'm feeling a bit edgy.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

And to stay on topic, the 3 teams that are slightly ahead of us on wage bill all have something tangible to show for it. What do we have except making up numbers in the CL for a considerable amount of years now.

Fuck, we're currently at round of 16 and we are heavy, heavy underdogs, expected to crash out to a real big club.

[Syn]

And to stay on topic, the 3 teams that are slightly ahead of us on wage bill all have something tangible to show for it. What do we have except making up numbers in the CL for a considerable amount of years now.

Well it's all well and good moaning about that but it doesn't make a sound point at all. I'm only arguing against the silly comment that we are not performing according to our financial spend. We clearly are. I'm not interested in whether there's another £60m stashed away that we can spend to get us among the top 3 wage spenders and win something - because, unlike a lot that chuck their 2 pence worth - I try to think a bit. I don't know how much the club have stashed away and don't pretend to. Obviously I would love the club to spend more and for us to (properly) progress. There is still room to progress even with our current spend - e.g. by not having rubbish pre-planned substitutions and getting our organisation and tactics right. No doubt a more tactically astute manager would have us higher in the league than we are currently, but does he get the Cazorla's in for £14m odd as well? I don't know...but it's time to try something new.

Btw for those interested, Deloitte are the only official source for all premier league team wages. Each year they publish the wages for premier league clubs (with a year lag, of course). So far the latest figures we have published in 2012 are:


Chelsea - £191m (up from £174m in 2009-10)
Manchester City - £174m (£133m)
Manchester United - £153m (£132m)
Liverpool - £135m (£121m)
Arsenal - £124m (£111m)

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18248540)

And then accounting for a very low net transfer spend (even profits, like last year) relative to other clubs, there is no doubt we are doing at least doing what supposed to do given what we spend. The issues are that we can probably do even better with better team management, and whether we do actually do need our net spend to be so little. Going the extra mile at times - a few million more for Alonso etc. can't hurt too much, can it?

[Özil's Panoramic View]

All I'm saying Syn, is that we should be getting more bang for a buck based on what we pay our players. Last year we finished 3rd, but was out of all comps by February and showed no sign ever challenging the top 2. Think we finished something like some 20 points off.

This season, it's the same crap. We're already 15 points adrift of the league leaders and no one is taking us seriously in the ECL.

We deserve better from players who are so handsomely rewarded for wearing the shirt for a few hours each season.

[Syn]

All I'm saying Syn, is that we should be getting more bang for a buck based on what we pay our players. Last year we finished 3rd, but was out of all comps by February and showed no sign ever challenging the top 2. Think we finished something like some 20 points off.

This season, it's the same crap. We're already 15 points adrift of the league leaders and no one is taking us seriously in the ECL.

We deserve better from players who are so handsomely rewarded for wearing the shirt for a few hours each season.

I know that's what you're saying. And I'm saying if you take the sensible view and look around, you can't claim we're perform badly according to our spend relative to other teams. To start challenging for the title, we need to spend more. e.g. Lets lose £24m and keep Van Persie for the season. IMO, that would've given us a chance for the title this year. 80+ points is on the cards with Wilshere and Cazorla feeding him and Walcott and Podolski supporting. Without Van Persie, we have no chance. A more tactically astute manager wouldn't have us sweating for 4th (like Arsene is currently) but at the same time nobody could get us 80+ points. If you want that, you keep your Van Persie's or sign some £20m+ players.

[-Xs-]

Does anyone know how much prize money is obtained by winning the league?

Perhaps that's the only thing the board consider? If say we get more for selling RvP than finishing first with RvP, then the club sell the player.

I don't know if that is the case, but if it is, Wenger is complicit in this and if he had any integrity from a purely footballing perspective, and his hands are constantly forced by the board, then he should walk.

[fakeyank]

All this sack Wenger or resign Wenger is not going to solve anything, they would just bring in another yes man stooge. The deep rooted problem is one parasite namely Stan Fucking Kroenke, he is the one person who has single handedly destroyed our club not Wenger. Wenger is merely the scapegoat and I actually feel sorry for Arsene because despite him knowing the truth, he has at all times acted with dignity and respect and has never shyed away from the media spotlight. Kroneke is building a vast fortune from our club, he is accountable for the misery we have endured for several seasons and more. He is an investor who is maximising his wealth from the club to increase his net worth. This **** doesnt give a single fuck about Arsenal, he hardly comes to the games and has always kept himself out of the limelight, letting others address the issues. Arsenal is just an unlimited money prinitng machine for this greedy ****. We have no other choice but to boycott the next home match with all 60K fans outside marching in protest chanting to the theme "FUCK OFF KRONEKE" "FUCK OFF KRONEKE" "FUCK OFF KRONEKE" "FUCK OFF KRONEKE" AND "SACK THE BOARD".

:haha:

Got to be the funniest post on here for a while. Kroenke has been one of the main players at Arsenal since 2010.. we have been shit since we moved to Emirates. And kroenke is not the reason why we cannot beat a League 2 side. Forget about not beating them.. we cant even threaten their goal till the 80th freaking minute. Fine, we are no where close to City, Utd and Chelsea in terms of finance but surely we should be beating Swansea at home . Forget beating them, not even threatening their goal. That, my dear sir, is all down to Wenger.

So I suggest going to that marching thingy you mentioned and screaming "FUCK OFF WENGER" :good:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

4th highest in the league and we finish 3rd. Does that suit your argument?

er nah.

the way people go on if we were financially restricted you'd expect a wage bill similar to mid table teams.

then you could applaud wengers achievements for getting us into top 4 with complete financial 'restriction'.

we have the 4th highest wage bill in the league.

thats not financial restriction.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

And to stay on topic, the 3 teams that are slightly ahead of us on wage bill all have something tangible to show for it. What do we have except making up numbers in the CL for a considerable amount of years now.

Fuck, we're currently at round of 16 and we are heavy, heavy underdogs, expected to crash out to a real big club.

4th highest in the league and we finish 3rd. Does that suit your intangible argument?

[Power n Glory]

Funny the Russian seems to think otherwise.

Come on dude. Wenger whose the manager of the club or the Russian whose not even on the Board and has a clear agenda? Whose opinion has more weight in this argument?

This is Wenger confirming that he has the Board's ear and that they will listen if he puts more pressure on them.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Come on dude. Wenger whose the manager of the club or the Russian whose not even on the Board and has a clear agenda? Whose opinion has more weight in this argument?

This is Wenger confirming that he has the Board's ear and that they will listen if he puts more pressure on them.

Im not saying your wrong, i was just making a point to what the russian said.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:lol: russians

awful slovakians.

[Power n Glory]

Im not saying your wrong, i was just making a point to what the russian said.

But why make the point if Wenger's word trumps it? :lol:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:lol: russians

awful slovakians.

:lol:

[Power n Glory]

er nah.

the way people go on if we were financially restricted you'd expect a wage bill similar to mid table teams.

then you could applaud wengers achievements for getting us into top 4 with complete financial 'restriction'.

we have the 4th highest wage bill in the league.

thats not financial restriction.

I think you both make fair points. With our wage bill, we shouldn't be struggling against certain teams and we should have at least won a few domestic cups.

But it's flawed to say we should be higher in the league with our wage bill. It's fair to say we should be spending more wisely, we can all agree on that. The recent signings of 5 unproven players while letting go of RVP, Song and potentially Walcott, really pisses me off. We should have a smaller squad with more proven players that know how to deliver if we're trying to progress. Guys like Wilshere, Gibbs and Ox won't be looking for the exit just yet because they know this is the best and one of the few clubs in England that will give young players a shot!

We're doing exactly what City and Chelsea do except with younger unproven players. We're paying over the odds and competitive wages for young players and inflating the rates but won't do it for proven players. Madness.

[Syn]

er nah.

the way people go on if we were financially restricted you'd expect a wage bill similar to mid table teams.

then you could applaud wengers achievements for getting us into top 4 with complete financial 'restriction'.

we have the 4th highest wage bill in the league.

thats not financial restriction.

You need to go back to school.

[GP]

:lol:

[IBK]

Well it's all well and good moaning about that but it doesn't make a sound point at all. I'm only arguing against the silly comment that we are not performing according to our financial spend. We clearly are. I'm not interested in whether there's another £60m stashed away that we can spend to get us among the top 3 wage spenders and win something - because, unlike a lot that chuck their 2 pence worth - I try to think a bit. I don't know how much the club have stashed away and don't pretend to. Obviously I would love the club to spend more and for us to (properly) progress. There is still room to progress even with our current spend - e.g. by not having rubbish pre-planned substitutions and getting our organisation and tactics right. No doubt a more tactically astute manager would have us higher in the league than we are currently, but does he get the Cazorla's in for £14m odd as well? I don't know...but it's time to try something new.

Btw for those interested, Deloitte are the only official source for all premier league team wages. Each year they publish the wages for premier league clubs (with a year lag, of course). So far the latest figures we have published in 2012 are:



And then accounting for a very low net transfer spend (even profits, like last year) relative to other clubs, there is no doubt we are doing at least doing what supposed to do given what we spend. The issues are that we can probably do even better with better team management, and whether we do actually do need our net spend to be so little. Going the extra mile at times - a few million more for Alonso etc. can't hurt too much, can it?

:gp:

As always, the issue is not straightforward. Wenger hasn't underperformed in terms of overall spend, relative to the richer teams. But he has arguably underperformed given the player resources at his disposal. In other words, there is good reason to believe that a better tactician, a more reactive manager who sets up his teams according to the opposition, and who doesn't seem to manage solely according to the training ground and the lap top would have done better with the players AW has. Of course, its Wenger himself who is responsible for bringing the technical talent that we have to the club, so the argument can easily become a little circular.

The main focus for criticism, IMO, is that the manager has squandered his financial resources by indulging experimental players. Without doubt, we pay untested and mediocre players too much - and they are millstones around the club's neck. There is good reason to suppose that had the manager behaved more judiciously, and had a more flexible wage structure (this wage parity has done nothing to foster togetherness and loyaly), funds would have been released to allow the club to keep its best performing players.

Anyways, for me the buck stops with the manager. The board and owners are not without blame, but the criticisms above are down to Wenger.

[Power n Glory]

:gp:

As always, the issue is not straightforward. Wenger hasn't underperformed in terms of overall spend, relative to the richer teams. But he has arguably underperformed given the player resources at his disposal. In other words, there is good reason to believe that a better tactician, a more reactive manager who sets up his teams according to the opposition, and who doesn't seem to manage solely according to the training ground and the lap top would have done better with the players AW has. Of course, its Wenger himself who is responsible for bringing the technical talent that we have to the club, so the argument can easily become a little circular.

The main focus for criticism, IMO, is that the manager has squandered his financial resources by indulging experimental players. Without doubt, we pay untested and mediocre players too much - and they are millstones around the club's neck. There is good reason to suppose that had the manager behaved more judiciously, and had a more flexible wage structure (this wage parity has done nothing to foster togetherness and loyaly), fans would have been released to allow the club to keep its best performing players.

Anyways, for me the buck stops with the manager. The board and owners are not without blame, but the criticisms above are down to Wenger.

:gp:

This argument has been running for years. It's just further confirmation of Wenger's authority. Too many times I've heard people try to absolve him from blame as if he has no say in the financial side either. I feel a more ambitious coach would push the Board to aim higher as a true sportsmen should.

[Fist of Lehmann]

And then accounting for a very low net transfer spend (even profits, like last year) relative to other clubs, there is no doubt we are doing at least doing what supposed to do given what we spend. The issues are that we can probably do even better with better team management, and whether we do actually do need our net spend to be so little. Going the extra mile at times - a few million more for Alonso etc. can't hurt too much, can it?

Just to add a little granularity to your last point.


Then consider Arsenal's position when it comes to the Premier League table showing net spending on transfers over the past five years. Manchester City are top, with £407.2m, followed by Chelsea on £231.7m. Stoke City, believe it or not, are next, on £75.2m, followed by Aston Villa, £69.8m; Manchester United, £62.1m; Liverpool, £49.1m; QPR, £46.2m; Sunderland £36.4m; West Ham, £26.4m; Southampton, £18.9m; Norwich, £16m; West Brom, £13.2m; Fulham, £13.1m, and Tottenham, £3.2m.

All the other clubs have all recorded a profit, starting with Swansea City, £1.9m; Wigan Athletic, £12.1m; Everton, £15.3m; Reading, £16.7m and Newcastle, £36.3m. Arsenal? You will find them bottom of the spenders' list, with a profit of £45m. Which either counts as good business, or lack of ambition, depending on which side of the fence you sit.

Clearly profit-mongering is the policy.
Wenger is gaming the system, targetting the most saleable assets, raising their value and then selling them on. All this while holding a level that just manages to exploit Champions League money without spending to attempt anything more ambitious.

In gaming terms, we're min-maxing.

And in reply to the OP, yes, of course Wenger is scapegoat for the board, but that's part of the job description, that's part of what they're paid for. Every manager in history has been scapegoat for the board in times of on-field problems.

The manager isn't just the guy who picks the teams, he's also figurehead, PR man and meat-shield.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

You need to go back to school.

sure, i'll ask to join your tutor group.

[fakeyank]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4709910/Arsene-Wenger-admits-his-future-with-Arsenal-is-out-of-his-hands.html

:pray:

Please Oh Please... let him not be around for one more season. Its been 5 seasons too late now.

[Injury Time]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4709910/Arsene-Wenger-admits-his-future-with-Arsenal-is-out-of-his-hands.html

:pray:

Please Oh Please... let him not be around for one more season. Its been 5 seasons too late now.
:blah: he says that everytime, unless we fail the 4PT can't see the board not extending.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4709910/Arsene-Wenger-admits-his-future-with-Arsenal-is-out-of-his-hands.html

:pray:

Please Oh Please... let him not be around for one more season. Its been 5 seasons too late now.

So much for Wenger having the say when he leaves :haha:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

http://i.imgur.com/gpLlR.gif

[fakeyank]

http://i.imgur.com/gpLlR.gif

:haha:

[Özim]

http://i.imgur.com/gpLlR.gif
:lol: