theo - winger or striker

[Ollie the Optimist]

just wanted to see a poll of what people think he is. not about contract or anything, just what people feel is best position is. seen lots of debate of this on twitter and seems mixed bag over striker or winger.



for me, he is a winger. his goals today were wingers goals, when compared to girouds. he has fantastic pace which he can use, today he scored one goal coming of the wing, the other was his pace, and third was tbf a strikers finish in the box. but he lacks hold up play, last week against wigan, we needed giroud up front and theo on wing rather then theo up top. henry was a lot bigger when he played and although there are similarities in style, henry was much bigger and stronger and could hold players off. theo cant.

[Syn]

I never had a problem with him out wide. He's less likely to be marked well and will find himself with lots of space. Above all, regardless of where he plays, he's a goalscorer. His goal scoring record out wide has been good from around 2010 onwards.

I'm happy for him to continue in either role.

[LDG]

Doesn't matter. Question is, is he good enough.

And he is. And becomming very consistent. Will be another big loss.

[Power n Glory]

Striker because he's able to do what Henry and Ade did which was drift wide if he needs more space. As a winger on the right, he can easily get marked out of a game if he's double teamed. The first goal he scored...he'd never be able to score from such an acute angle playing out on the right.

We weren't even at our best today. Theo wasn't either but he still scored a hat trick and set up two goals. When fully comfortable in that role, I think he's going to be lethal.

[Gervinho's Forehead]

I hate the term Henry-esque, it's an unfair lable to give someone but I loved Walcott's finish for our first goal, it was very much like Henry used to do.

[Marc Overmars]

I'm bored of this striker/winger debate now. He's more than good enough to play for us and that's what matters the most.

We need to keep him, not only because he's one of our best players but it would be yet another fatal blow if a big player turns his back on the club, again.

[Joker]

Think he can play in both positions tbh, his crossing has improved immeasurably as demonstrated by the Giroud assist. The most important thing is we tie him down because he's our most productive player by a country mile.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Neither, he's a forward. The role of players up front has changed, especially for those that aren't seen as a target man. Most teams play in a variant of a 4-3-3 so you need at least one guy that can do both jobs. A lot of it is the fault of Messi and Ronaldo, both wingers that have ended up becoming absolute goalscoring freaks - far surpassing what is expected of your nominal 'strikers'.

[AKBapologist]

Is Messi a striker or a winger?

We'll never know.

sent from a fone

[Cripps_orig]

Hes a striker

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Doesn't matter if he's a winger or a centre striker, he's gone either way. Read:




Wenger: Theo ‘belongs here’

Arsene Wenger says Theo Walcott belongs at the club after the England international scored a hat-trick in the 7-3 win over Newcastle today.

Everyone knows the contract issue is ongoing but the Arsenal manager says his desire to keep Walcott is the same as it ever was.

“You know, the intensity of my desire is exactly the same as it was before the game. My desire is to extend his contract, he belongs here and hopefully we can do it.

“I think the commitment for a club is a long-term process. I don’t think it should depend on one game. Should he have had a disastrous game today, it would not have altered my determination to extend his contract and to sign him. That does not depend on one game.

“I think he loves the club and the club loves him, and the reciprocity in love is the most difficult to find.”

We’ve been down this road before, there’s nothing new to say, so let’s just enjoy Theo’s goals today.

The boss also had words for two-goal substitute Olivier Giroud who took his total to the season for 11:

“Yes, he came on very sharp. He looked dangerous on crosses, he looked mobile, technically sound. He had as well an impact when he came on.”

And while criticism of the way Arsenal are run has many valid points, let’s not forget Newcastle gave Alan Pardew an 8 year contract.

Good work, chaps!


http://news.arseblog.com/2012/12/wenger-theo-belongs-here/

[Syn]

Trio Goalcott IMO.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

just wanted to see a poll of what people think he is. not about contract or anything, just what people feel is best position is. seen lots of debate of this on twitter and seems mixed bag over striker or winger.



for me, he is a winger. his goals today were wingers goals, when compared to girouds. he has fantastic pace which he can use, today he scored one goal coming of the wing, the other was his pace, and third was tbf a strikers finish in the box. but he lacks hold up play, last week against wigan, we needed giroud up front and theo on wing rather then theo up top. henry was a lot bigger when he played and although there are similarities in style, henry was much bigger and stronger and could hold players off. theo cant.

you're wrong sir.

the reason theo got the first goal was because he was standing nearer to the centre of the pitch instead of near the touchline, playing off the shoulder of the last defender, which gave him open space to run into and attack. if he was on the wing he would have been 15 yards deeper and tucked nearer to the touchline, meaning when he gets the ball he'd have no space to attack as both the opposition winger and full back would be metres away marking him ready to make a tackle. when he's up front he's simply waiting on the shoulder of the last defender and can bend his runs to pick up balls played through by the wingers, just like he did for the first goal.

the reason playing theo up front works so well is because his pace allows him to attack open space more freely than when he's on the wing. when he's playing on the wing he has to dribble first and then cross/shoot, but when he's up top he just has to race clear and cross/shoot. thats what he's good at. he's no good when he has no space or lots of time to makes decisions, nor when he's being man marked on the wing. theo plays best when he plays instinctually and has to make a quick decision.

he only needs 1 yard and he'll have the upper hand on defenders. we've seen that in the 3 games he's played up top.

[Injury Time]

Oh well only a couple days before can announce his move:wave:

[Syn]

Oh well only a couple days before can announce his move:wave:

It's not in his interests to move this January. He'll net 25 goals for us this season and then get a free transfer. And thats when the big money comes in.

[Power n Glory]

Neither, he's a forward. The role of players up front has changed, especially for those that aren't seen as a target man. Most teams play in a variant of a 4-3-3 so you need at least one guy that can do both jobs. A lot of it is the fault of Messi and Ronaldo, both wingers that have ended up becoming absolute goalscoring freaks - far surpassing what is expected of your nominal 'strikers'.

Buck tooth Brazilian original Ronaldo was the guy that evolved the role of a forward. He was something else. Before Messi and Ronaldo, there was the original Ronaldo, Henry...Ronaldinho...what the heck was Ronaldinho?

Theo in my opinion is more of a traditional small speedy striker. An Owen, Defoe, Saviola type but playing in the modern game. He hasn't got bags of tricks but he has the touch and pace and eye for goal to play up front for us. The key is mobility and pace.

[Injury Time]

It's not in his interests to move this January. He'll net 25 goals for us this season and then get a free transfer. And thats when the big money comes in.
Wenger not freeze him out if he don't sign da ting in Jan? We that under his spell? Tbh I keep getting that Flamini contract time performance feeling, can't shake it <_<

[LDG]

It's not in his interests to move this January. He'll net 25 goals for us this season and then get a free transfer. And thats when the big money comes in.

Pretty much.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Unfortunately for that Ronaldo, I don't think he was ever fit enough for long enough to have that same kind of influence. And by current standards his best goalscoring season, was quite slim in comparison (even though it was 47), he did however score lots of goals right from the start of his career.

You can mention all the other guys that have been very good in what I am saying is now a forward role but neither of them have achieved the same amount of goals that Ronaldo and Messi have and for season after season. That's the difference and that's wherein their influence over football lies.

Plus back in those times, 4-4-2 wasn't played with as much paucity as it is now; football has clearly changed since 1996-1997.

You only have to look at Spain now to see how largely irrelevant the role of what was expected of a traditional striker has become.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'm only interested in discussing the merits of a player that will be here in February.

[Marc Overmars]

Doubt he'll be sold next month but as his stock continues to rise, I'm sure his agent is putting the feelers out. Don't be fooled into thinking certain clubs don't need him, he'll be a wanted man for sure.

If he does sign a new deal with us, I bet it will be for a lot more than we could have had him for 6 months ago.

[Power n Glory]

Unfortunately for that Ronaldo, I don't think he was ever fit enough for long enough to have that same kind of influence. And by current standards his best goalscoring season, was quite slim in comparison (even though it was 47), he did however score lots of goals right from the start of his career.

You can mention all the other guys that have been very good in what I am saying is now a forward role but neither of them have achieved the same amount of goals that Ronaldo and Messi have and for season after season. That's the difference and that's wherein their influence over football lies.

Plus back in those times, 4-4-2 wasn't played with as much paucity as it is now; football has clearly changed since 1996-1997.

You only have to look at Spain now to see how largely irrelevant the role of what was expected of a traditional striker has become.

Nah, you can't forget the original Ronaldo and his influence. Even though Ronaldo's Inter and Barca days were short, he changed the expectations for a forward. He was the prototype. It was all Fox in the box/Poacher type strikers and he was the one that started dropping deep, drifting wide and moving all over the pitch to confuse defenders. His dribbling on the ball....an absolute beast.

After the injury he adapted his game to more like a traditional striker but before that he was the originator. Messi and Ronadlo...great players who have helped redefine the role of a forward/striker but buck tooth Ronnie was that guy! If he hadn't have had those injuries....

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Nah, you can't forget the original Ronaldo and his influence. Even though Ronaldo's Inter and Barca days were short, he changed the expectations for a forward. He was the prototype. It was all Fox in the box/Poacher type strikers and he was the one that started dropping deep, drifting wide and moving all over the pitch to confuse defenders. His dribbling on the ball....an absolute beast.

After the injury he adapted his game to more like a traditional striker but before that he was the originator. Messi and Ronadlo...great players who have helped redefine the role of a forward/striker but buck tooth Ronnie was that guy! If he hadn't have had those injuries....

The difference as I mention and as you kind of infer is that Ronaldo was always that guy, that goalscorer. Messi and Ronaldo in comparison became those guys comparitively later on. And it's not about forgetting about him, I just don't think he has left a legacy in the same way.

[Power n Glory]

The difference as I mention and as you kind of infer is that Ronaldo was always that guy, that goalscorer. Messi and Ronaldo in comparison became those guys comparitively later on. And it's not about forgetting about him, I just don't think he has left a legacy in the same way.

Once the smoke and dust has settled, then we can talk legacy. It's too fresh to talk about now. Messi, as great as he is, people still question whether he'd be able to do what he's doing outside of Spain and Barca. As for Ronaldo...he's turned into a complete beast in Spain. He had that crazy season for United but we was never an unstoppable force.

[Kano]

The difference as I mention and as you kind of infer is that Ronaldo was always that guy, that goalscorer. Messi and Ronaldo in comparison became those guys comparitively later on. And it's not about forgetting about him, I just don't think he has left a legacy in the same way.
I think you're spot on and it shouldn't matter where Theo plays from the start because if he is given the freedom (as he is) to roam everywhere (as our front 4/5 often do) then the chances will appear anyway. he has always been a good finisher but his maturing and understanding of the game really grew through last season and he has naturally taken that on after some decent showings at the euro's. once he adds a bit more technique to his all round game he will have everything needed to regularly score 20+ a season.

the only thing that may screw him up are those persistent injuries that keep breaking up his seasons.

[GP]

Agree about the forwards being fluid, not having rigid positions.

That's exactly why all this talk of playing as a striker has always been bogus.

[fakeyank]

Another top player sold when they are showing signs of turning into a world beater! :banghead:

[Cripps_orig]

He should start every match in the middle of the front 3 and thus he will have license to roam wide on the left or right. If he starts on the right, hes stuck on the right which he clearly doesnt want to be plus add the defensive side which is greater than if he is in the middle. Fair enough that everyone must put a shift in defensively but ultimately you want your best attacking players to be in a position to hurt the opposition.

Theo is our best striker, of that there is no more doubt. The fact he is also our best winger should be seen as a bonus for him

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Another top player sold when they are showing signs of turning into a world beater! :banghead:

yep.

i honestly think he'll beat henry's record if he stays here.

big statement but i think it can be done. just needs patience and time.

[Cripps_orig]

Hope he beats it.

[AKBapologist]

@Orbinho
Mins per goal involvement 2012-13
1 Walcott 62,
2 Hernandez 73,
3 Rooney 78,
4 van Persie 79,
5 Dzeko 79,
6 Mata 88,
7 Petric 94,
8 Ruiz 99

Who needs a footballing brain? :bow:

[mastermind84]

he is an inside forward. The first goal he scored today was from that inside forward position, but from the left (which he may be best suited).

I am not convinced by him centrally at all as I still believe he makes poor runs and cannot hold the ball up.

[mastermind84]

The difference as I mention and as you kind of infer is that Ronaldo was always that guy, that goalscorer. Messi and Ronaldo in comparison became those guys comparitively later on. And it's not about forgetting about him, I just don't think he has left a legacy in the same way.

in fairness to Ronaldo, the numbers Cronaldo and Messi and many others are inflated. The defensive talent during Ronaldo's time trumps what we see today. If you put Ronaldo '95-96 in today's football world, he would have numbers as good if not better than Messi.

[Power n Glory]

in fairness to Ronaldo, the numbers Cronaldo and Messi and many others are inflated. The defensive talent during Ronaldo's time trumps what we see today. If you put Ronaldo '95-96 in today's football world, he would have numbers as good if not better than Messi.

That's a good point. It also helps that they're both playing for juiced up Galatico style teams. It's the age of the dream team. There used to be a healthy amount of top players dotted around Spain, Germany, Italy, Netherlands and England. Now we're seeing a concentration of the best players moving to these juiced up Dream teams. Barca and Real would still have a super squad without Christiano and Messi. Most of the world's best players play for those two clubs. Messi is a beast but gets fantastic service with the pin point passes. They're a fantastic team. I remember when Ronaldiho move to Barca and he was a one man circus! Michael Jordan clutch style performances. Ronaldo was the same at Barca and Inter. The sort of players that had a lot more on their shoulders and had to carry a team.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

in fairness to Ronaldo, the numbers Cronaldo and Messi and many others are inflated. The defensive talent during Ronaldo's time trumps what we see today. If you put Ronaldo '95-96 in today's football world, he would have numbers as good if not better than Messi.

They're 'inflated' because they rarely get injured and thus they're able to do it game-after-game, if L. Ronaldo wasn't unfortunate in that sense then yes he might well have but for various reasons that was not possible. The dedication to being able to stay fit is another part of Messi/Ronaldo's legacy (and PnG, I don't think I am being premature in that even if they were both struck down today). You mention 95-96, well L. Ronaldo was at PSV then - I don't really think it's going to be a fair argument to hold up the Eredivisie as the bedrock for defensive solidity but at the same time you can see just how damn good he was in spite of that. I think it's a distracting argument anyway, I just look at what the players can do.

PnG, I think the only consistent pinpoint service (when there is barely anything he needs to do) Messi gets these days, if any, is from Iniesta. Xavi has had about two direct assists to him in two years or something silly. They're a fantastic team but Messi is a huge part of it. Plus I think you might be forgetting just how well financially backed Inter were when Ronaldo was there!

[Boss]

Three games as a central striker, four goals and two assists so far (all vital). He fucked up 2-3 more decent chances yesterday that arguably should have led to goals but I'd argue that he's still growing into the role and will only get better as he develops.

He asked Wenger for a change in position and so far has justified his request. Up to the club to offer him the terms he wants so we don't lose another star player who is worth at least 20M in today's market (Sturridge 12M :lol: ).

Throw the chequebook at him, tbh.

[Penguin]

he is an inside forward. The first goal he scored today was from that inside forward position, but from the left (which he may be best suited).

I am not convinced by him centrally at all as I still believe he makes poor runs and cannot hold the ball up.

I agree with that.

He's weak physically and doesn't have the greatest of touches so it will be difficult for him to hold the ball up or to bring others into play. On the other hand you could argue he doesn't need to get involved in the play and should concentrate on trying to make runs and keeping the pressure on the defenders. But then his finishing isn't spectacular and he's prone to wasting a few chances before he scores one.

[Power n Glory]

They're 'inflated' because they rarely get injured and thus they're able to do it game-after-game, if L. Ronaldo wasn't unfortunate in that sense then yes he might well have but for various reasons that was not possible. The dedication to being able to stay fit is another part of Messi/Ronaldo's legacy (and PnG, I don't think I am being premature in that even if they were both struck down today). You mention 95-96, well L. Ronaldo was at PSV then - I don't really think it's going to be a fair argument to hold up the Eredivisie as the bedrock for defensive solidity but at the same time you can see just how damn good he was in spite of that. I think it's a distracting argument anyway, I just look at what the players can do.

PnG, I think the only consistent pinpoint service (when there is barely anything he needs to do) Messi gets these days, if any, is from Iniesta. Xavi has had about two direct assists to him in two years or something silly. They're a fantastic team but Messi is a huge part of it. Plus I think you might be forgetting just how well financially backed Inter were when Ronaldo was there!

Inter spent money but there were also other teams around Europe spending and there wasn't such a monopoly on talent. The top Dutch, German, Italian, English and Spanish teams were all strong. Now the Dutch and Italian leagues are really weak and Germany has only just started making a comeback. But that'sa side issuet. Ronaldo was the complete forward and one the first guys that would score a ton of goals, get assists and score freekicks. The blueprint player. When he was playing, teams were still all about the fox in the box poacher types. Alan Shearer, Batistuta, Inzaghi, Bierhoff, Crespo, Kluivert types. That's why I say he's the prototype because he's one of the few strikers that would excel in this era and fetch a hefty transfer fee now. His peers around that era would struggle in a team like Barca now.

[Power n Glory]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-RRheqng46Q

Beast!! I wish there was a player out there now doing this sort of thing.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

rather have bendtner tbh :coffee:

[Gooner23]

Little bit both

[Marc Overmars]

Three games as a central striker, four goals and two assists so far (all vital). He fucked up 2-3 more decent chances yesterday that arguably should have led to goals but I'd argue that he's still growing into the role and will only get better as he develops.

He asked Wenger for a change in position and so far has justified his request. Up to the club to offer him the terms he wants so we don't lose another star player who is worth at least 20M in today's market (Sturridge 12M :lol: ).

Throw the chequebook at him, tbh.

Yep, there's no point in squabbling about money now. He's clearly become one of our best players and needs to be paid accordingly. Even if he took a step down and went to Liverpool he'd still be earning top dollar because that's just the going rate.

The people in charge need to be shot if yet another player feels the need to turn his back on the club.

[Grebbo]

All this winger/striker talk is complete nonsense.

We don't play with wingers, we play with three strikers. Podolski is sure as hell not a winger.

Someone should tell Theo that he is a striker but is a right sided striker.

[AKBapologist]

But some of his best goals, including 2 from yesterday have come from the left.

sent from a fone

[Power n Glory]

But some of his best goals, including 2 from yesterday have come from the left.

sent from a fone

Just like how Henry used to drift out to the left and then dart into the box.

As for Podolski, he hardly gets good chances in around the box because he's always stuck out wide. How many shots on goal does he get on average per game? It was the same for Theo outwide and now look how many chances he's fed playing in a more focal area.

[AKBapologist]

Just like how Henry used to drift out to the left and then dart into the box.

As for Podolski, he hardly gets good chances in around the box because he's always stuck out wide. How many shots on goal does he get on average per game? It was the same for Theo outwide and now look how many chances he's fed playing in a more focal area.

Exactly

sent from a fone

[mastermind84]

They're 'inflated' because they rarely get injured and thus they're able to do it game-after-game, if L. Ronaldo wasn't unfortunate in that sense then yes he might well have but for various reasons that was not possible. The dedication to being able to stay fit is another part of Messi/Ronaldo's legacy (and PnG, I don't think I am being premature in that even if they were both struck down today). You mention 95-96, well L. Ronaldo was at PSV then - I don't really think it's going to be a fair argument to hold up the Eredivisie as the bedrock for defensive solidity but at the same time you can see just how damn good he was in spite of that. I think it's a distracting argument anyway, I just look at what the players can do.
Apologies, I meant Ronaldo 96-97 at Barcelona. In that season Ronaldo played 49 matches and won the Cup Winners Cup. The next year in the best league in the world, he scored 34 in 47 matches. This is when he was healthy and at his best, and against the best defenses in the world. There is no doubt in my mind Ronaldo could score as many goals as Messi and Cronaldo are doing today, especially since the standard of defending was better back then and they were allowed to touch attackers which is the opposite today.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It's true, he probably would but then, he has always been a goalscorer.