How Good Are We?

[Letters]

I can never decide how good we are.


For all the "we're shit" rhetoric on here the fact is we're still probably, at worst, one of the best 6 teams in the country and we've got into the last 16 of the CL for the bazillionth year in a row. Even now we're clearly not that bad a side. Not so great compared with the Invincibles, obviously, but I don't think any team in the country is at that level right now, that really was an exceptional side.


The Swansea game rather summed it up. First half we huffed and puffed and outplayed Swansea without ever looking like we knew how to break them down. Dull and uninspiring. Second half we were loads better, looked dangerous and but for some rather inept finishing would have been out of sight before Jack won it.


So...how good are we?

[Kano]

As you said, a good top six side but frustratingly always those few steps away from being excellent because of the various issues we have all spoken about for eternity.

[Fist of Lehmann]

We are the mean of all our performances combined.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Wow! Top six? Quite remarkable for a club of our stature I must admit.

Anyway, at least we're not relegation threatened - another astounding feat considering our resources and the Norwichs, Swanseas, Scrotes, et al we have to compete with.

[Letters]

Wow! Top six? Quite remarkable for a club of our stature I must admit.
Anyone who is a grown up will know that's a lot higher than a 'club of our stature' have been for much of our history...

[Niall_Quinn]

Anyone who is a grown up will know that's a lot higher than a 'club of our stature' have been for much of our history...

Fortunately I'm extremely childish.

We are shit.

[Dennis Bendtner]

It's Wenger's poorest ever team, which is to be expected as it's continually shorn of star quality over the years. There aren't many matchwinners and you can expect the team to have more huff and puff games as we go on. But it's the ability of the manager to cope skilfully with those departures that has sustained our position over the years. Much better than the competitors anyway. Getting back to the top will need that investment in better players to match up those in Manchester.

[Kano]

Wow! Top six? Quite remarkable for a club of our stature I must admit.

Anyway, at least we're not relegation threatened - another astounding feat considering our resources and the Norwichs, Swanseas, Scrotes, et al we have to compete with.
can you stop crying just for one second.

no one (yet) has marked that down as an 'achievement' or stated how proud we are that we can now only be rated as that. the OP asked 'how good do you think we are', as in, where do we stand in terms of ability.

[Letters]

It's Wenger's poorest ever team, which is to be expected as it's continually shorn of star quality over the years. There aren't many matchwinners and you can expect the team to have more huff and puff games as we go on. But it's the ability of the manager to cope skilfully with those departures that has sustained our position over the years. Much better than the competitors anyway. Getting back to the top will need that investment in better players to match up those in Manchester.
I don't think we're a million miles away. This team + RvP would probably be challenging.
We do need some investment but we don't need 10 new players, 2 or 3 in key areas would do it.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Anyone who is a grown up will know that's a lot higher than a 'club of our stature' have been for much of our history...

Grown up is so over-rated, tbh. Imagine it entails having to be aware that we've been shit for a very long time.

I'll remain 12, thanks.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

can you stop crying just for one second.

no one (yet) has marked that down as an 'achievement' or stated how proud we are that we can now only be rated as that. the OP asked 'how good do you think we are', as in, where do we stand in terms of ability.

Well, we're at least top 5 good, atm and a few signings away from top 3 / top 4.

[PGFC]

We're still better than some of the shit I watched whilst growing up :shrug: Trouble is we've been spoilt in the recent past hence the needy whining from certain quarters.

[Dennis Bendtner]

I don't think we're a million miles away. This team + RvP would probably be challenging.
We do need some investment but we don't need 10 new players, 2 or 3 in key areas would do it.

Well it's 21 points now. The gap's got progressively bigger, the two seasons without Van Persie and Fabregas being the real killers. It's good news that the core of the team seems to be staying together now, but I must tell you that bridging that gap is reliant on more top, top, top quality.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think we're a million miles away. This team + RvP would probably be challenging.
We do need some investment but we don't need 10 new players, 2 or 3 in key areas would do it.

That's the whole problem. We don't have RvP because we have a policy of selling our best players. If another RvP emerges, we'll sell him. We've spent season after season saying that just a couple of key signings would make all the difference. Those key signings are not coming, if the existing team improves then the key players will be sold. Unless the whole philosophy of the club suddenly changes. I give you the January transfer window as an example of where this club is going under the current mob. Nowhere. We'll always be short because we have a bare minimum approach to everything except ticket prices. Just the way it is and it's also the way they want it.

How good are we? We aren't. We're second tier now and 2% away from a further drop in quality which will mean we may not even be leading the second tier.

Yes, we have seen worse in previous decades but it was only £3 to watch a match back then and the players gave a fuck about the club. So there was more to football than just the results, there was a tribe. Now it's a commercial operation first, foremost. Judging by the pure money standard that dominates the game Arsenal does not deliver. This is a poor team given the size of the commercial operation and the cost to the fans.

[Letters]

Well it's 21 points now. The gap's got progressively bigger, the two seasons without Van Persie and Fabregas being the real killers. It's good news that the core of the team seems to be staying together now, but I must tell you that bridging that gap is reliant on more top, top, top quality.Aye, but RvP has won them over 10 points already and if we had him we'd probably have at least 10 points more. He made a massive difference last year and he's making a massive difference to them this <_<

[Dennis Bendtner]

Aye, but RvP has won them over 10 points already and if we had him we'd probably have at least 10 points more. He made a massive difference last year and he's making a massive difference to them this <_<

Yeah. Though even with him in the team last year it was a 19 point gap by the end. That said, having Wilshere and Cazorla this year has helped bring things back a bit. It is really about finding players on that exceptional RVP, Fabregas level who can make the difference and put the team in a position to challenge again. Getting harder and harder to do without putting a lot of money behind it.

[Marc Overmars]

We're obviously better than most but still a level down from where we aspire to be and it's a gap that's going to get bigger before it does smaller.

In my eyes now there's no difference between ourselves and Sperz, both sides are as good (and bad) as each other. Being on par with Sperz is not where we should be.

[Boss]

Fourth best team in the league, which is the best we can hope for right now.

[Letters]

Yes, we have seen worse in previous decades but it was only £3 to watch a match back then and the players gave a fuck about the club. So there was more to football than just the results, there was a tribe. Now it's a commercial operation first, foremost. Judging by the pure money standard that dominates the game Arsenal does not deliver. This is a poor team given the size of the commercial operation and the cost to the fans.
Agree with this.

And I agree with TEG that 4th best is, in a sport where money and success are increasingly correlated, about the best we can hope for.
BUT, given our resources it should be us in a top for and then a gap to 'the rest'. We shouldn't be trying to compete with 'the rest' and hoping to be the best of them. With the resources at our disposal we should be doing better.

[Özim]

I don't think we're very good.

We have a horrendous defence, the worst I can remember us ever having with pretty average defenders.

The midfield isn't bad there's some talent there but no really steel in there to mix it up and a shortage of quality wingers, but this is our best area for sure.

Up front we're not very good IMO, we lack a clynical finisher since sellling RVP, we have good players there but not the very good ones that will win you trophies.

Goalkeeper, is a bit hit and miss at the moment.

The bench IMO is pretty dire though with very little quality to change games.

[AKBapologist]

Our offense is worse than our defense. I can't remember the last season we failed to score in so many games. I think we've become far more sensitive defensive mistakes as a result because every game is so much tighter.

sent from a fone

[LDG]

I don't think we're a million miles away. This team + RvP would probably be challenging.
We do need some investment but we don't need 10 new players, 2 or 3 in key areas would do it.

Nah. With RVP we do what we did last year.

We wouldn't be where utd are, because we rely heavily on technical supremecy which goes right one game, and wrong another.

Utd, whilst not a great side, play to their strengths, and play the odds. We gamble.

RVP or not. We'd still be here. Unless we have the quality to play the game wengbot wants to play, we won't challenge.

[Letters]

I don't think we're very good.

We have a horrendous defence, the worst I can remember us ever having with pretty average defenders.

The midfield isn't bad there's some talent there but no really steel in there to mix it up and a shortage of quality wingers, but this is our best area for sure.

Up front we're not very good IMO, we lack a clynical finisher since sellling RVP, we have good players there but not the very good ones that will win you trophies.

Goalkeeper, is a bit hit and miss at the moment.

The bench IMO is pretty dire though with very little quality to change games.
So are you saying the standard of football in this country is poor then? 'Cos we're going to be no worse than top 6, I wouldn't bet against us finishing top 4.
That rather implies there are only a few teams in the country better than us.

You say we have a 'horrendous' defence (which is little bit exaggerating although defence certainly isn't our forte) but only 2 teams have conceded fewer goals.
You say up front we're not very good but only the top 3 have scored more.

We're doing something right.

[Letters]

Nah. With RVP we do what we did last year.

We wouldn't be where utd are, because we rely heavily on technical supremecy which goes right one game, and wrong another.

Utd, whilst not a great side, play to their strengths, and play the odds. We gamble.

RVP or not. We'd still be here. Unless we have the quality to play the game wengbot wants to play, we won't challenge.
We'd be doing better with RvP, maybe not on a par with Utd but we'd be closer. RvP would be turning some of our draws into wins and Utd wouldn't be getting all the wins they have without him.

[GP]

We're alright.

Less good than I'd like us to be, but we aren't shit.

In short: Spend some funkin money.

[Özim]

So are you saying the standard of football in this country is poor then? 'Cos we're going to be no worse than top 6, I wouldn't bet against us finishing top 4.
That rather implies there are only a few teams in the country better than us.

You say we have a 'horrendous' defence (which is little bit exaggerating although defence certainly isn't our forte) but only 2 teams have conceded fewer goals.
You say up front we're not very good but only the top 3 have scored more.

We're doing something right.
I don't think the standard is that great in the PL these days, certainly nowhere near where it use to be a few years back, Man U are top of the PL but as a side they not exactly top notch, they're a pale shadow of their team of a few years back.

Our defence has been awful, the stats may say one thing but if you watch the matches our defence has beeen a car crash, errors all over the place and they don't play as a unit at all, to me it's the worst Arsenal defence I've seen.

Again the stats will say one thing but watching the matches we've struggled somewhat at times offensively this season.

If this is us doing something right, I wouldn't like to see us doing it wrong that's all I can say. We've been going backwards in recent years not forwards sadly.

[fakeyank]

So are you saying the standard of football in this country is poor then? 'Cos we're going to be no worse than top 6, I wouldn't bet against us finishing top 4.
That rather implies there are only a few teams in the country better than us.

You say we have a 'horrendous' defence (which is little bit exaggerating although defence certainly isn't our forte) but only 2 teams have conceded fewer goals.
You say up front we're not very good but only the top 3 have scored more.

We're doing something right.

While I think more often than not reflects the truth, I do think that in this case, it is different.

For example: Our 6-0 win really boosted the number of goals we scored this season. No one can say that our attack has been good.. we barely created any chances against Swansea at home (PL) and Norwich away. Again, in terms of goals conceded, we lost by a single goal against Utd and two against City when in fact, the scorelines couldve been higher. We lose a lot of goals (as usual since 04) from stupid school boy errors and set pieces.

[Cripps_orig]

Pound for pound, the worst team in the country. For the talent we have, we should be doing far better but they don't give a fuck and are happy to pick up the pay cheques

[Niall_Quinn]

Pound for pound, the worst team in the country. For the talent we have, we should be doing far better but they don't give a fuck and are happy to pick up the pay cheques

You mean penny for penny.

[LDG]

We'd be doing better with RvP, maybe not on a par with Utd but we'd be closer. RvP would be turning some of our draws into wins and Utd wouldn't be getting all the wins they have without him.

I din't think so. Because if utd didn't sign him, they would have signed someone else to kick them on.

What makes me sick is that the purple nosed **** saw an easy chewing-gum munching way to hit back at the humiliation they got from City last year.

We're in a different game.

[Marc Overmars]

Would we have signed Cultzola and Big Sexy without the 24m RVC brought in? I'm not sure. We'd certainly be stronger with RVC but I don't think we would have bought the depth to compliment him and ultimately strengthen enough to become contenders.

[Xhaka Can’t]

We're by far the greatest theam the world has ever seen.

[Kano]

I don't think the standard is that great in the PL these days, certainly nowhere near where it use to be a few years back, Man U are top of the PL but as a side they not exactly top notch, they're a pale shadow of their team of a few years back.
so you can see why pep flew straight over to germany instead of wasting his time here.

[Kano]

We're by far the greatest theam the world has ever seen.
one for the accountants there.

[Mr. Lahey]

given our club status, the money we bring in, the history...we are quite shit. you cannot compare us with the rest of the teams lower than us, most have never been at the level we have been. 21 points out of 1st halfway through January is laughable especially given that we sold the best fucking player in the league to the 1st place team and the manager states that he knew that was going to happen. still makes me sick thinking about it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Snap. The RvP transfer was the end of Arsenal as a serious football club, or at least the end of whatever fragment of the old club was left intact. We'll have to wait until football collapses financially until a new Arsenal in line with the fans' expectations arrives. We have an utter **** as owner now and an even bigger **** lined up to take his place. The club will be entirely ruined by the time these two pieces of shit have done fucking it.

[Mr. Lahey]

Snap. The RvP transfer was the end of Arsenal as a serious football club, or at least the end of whatever fragment of the old club was left intact. We'll have to wait until football collapses financially until a new Arsenal in line with the fans' expectations arrives. We have an utter **** as owner now and an even bigger **** lined up to take his place. The club will be entirely ruined by the time these two pieces of shit have done fucking it.

i agree completely. we could have sold to anyone else, i could give a fuck about the money received back because we dont spend it anyway. but we sold him to currently, the best team in the league and he has been massive for them. again the only way the vultures will get the message is if the fans stop going to games, its been said to death but its true. all they care about is money.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

i agree completely. we could have sold to anyone else, i could give a fuck about the money received back because we dont spend it anyway. but we sold him to currently, the best team in the league and he has been massive for them. again the only way the vultures will get the message is if the fans stop going to games, its been said to death but its true. all they care about is money.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GL8QXYUKatA/T3ORe07boBI/AAAAAAAAA3g/WbX4xEzYmig/s320/the-rock-clapping.gif

[selassie]

We're a top 6 side now. Put us in whatever position you want. For me, we're realistically equal with those c*nts down the road, have been for a couple of seasons now. Liverpool are making a claim this season to bridge the gap, Rodgers has bought some pretty decent players who are doing well, is developing some good young talent and has the advantage of having one of the Division's best players in Suarez. Sure they are unpredictable but I wouldn't say the gap between us and them is that big anymore.

Sure we're a decent-ish side but not where we were a couple of years ago and light years away from the Invincibles.

What happens next? Who knows?

[StamfordBrdige]

I'd say you are where Chelsea were in the 2nd half of the vialli era to the ranieri years (pre-roman).

A good side that is capable of beating any team in the league but one that inexplicably seems show such form consistently. Always seeming to be 2/3 players away from pushing on and really kicking some ass. I'd say it was easier for us than it is for you guys presently as we went from being really shite (division 2 - i'm told by the old timers) to challenging for the title (98/99 season) to beating barcelona at the bridge (fuckin awesome game that was). So things seemed to be on the up.

Things appear to be going the other way in your case. From challenging for and winning the PL to seeing top 4 as a trophy. I personally think that that is the most damaging thing that your manager has come out with. It shows quite categorically that the club's ambitions are quite limited and it's no surprise that players are leaving to go elsewhere where they feel they'll win trophies. I don't think anyone at spurs/everton/liverpool has ever said 4th is a trophy or better than a trophy. While i understand the financial importance of finishing in the top 4 it seems that your club are extremely content to just keep coming 4th for the next 15 years.

I think that's bollocks quite frankly. A bit more ambition, gumption and you'd be a lot closer to the manc clubs and not 10-20pts behind them. The only time AW and the folk who run your club seem to do anything is when 4th seems to be at risk. Now you're signing players that i've actually heard of (Podolski, Mertesacker etc). Granted they may not be world class but they are good, solid proven international players and ironically a bit more of those kinds of signing a few years back and a bit less of the youngsters (and random players) and who knows, you'd have won a trophy or 2 and be spoken of as realistic PL title challengers.

Recently people say every year that arsenal will finish outside the top 4. Normally i disregard such comments. This year however i think it could happen. Right now i'd say there's a 60% chance of you guys not finishing in the top 4. If that does happen, i fully expect you guys to go nuts in the summer transfer window.

[Niall_Quinn]

We'll fucking go nuts (and raisins) here long before the summer transfer window if we don't grab the 4th place trophy.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

We'll fucking go nuts (and raisins) here long before the summer transfer window if we don't grab the 4th place trophy.

http://t1.ftcdn.net/jpg/00/44/37/00/400_F_44370016_33gthJaDF9rAX9am1rudWzRkg6IKRbfL.jp g

[Niall_Quinn]

http://t1.ftcdn.net/jpg/00/44/37/00/400_F_44370016_33gthJaDF9rAX9am1rudWzRkg6IKRbfL.jp g

Are you trying to screw around with me? Doubt you'll answer, you've probably bolted by now. Nut.