Next Arsenal manager?

[GunnerFan4Life]

Who could it actually be? I've recently thought and warmed to the idea of Michael Laudraup (sp?) taking over. An eye for cheap, good buys, one philosophy and thats to play football and a sick accent. And the fact he was one of the best players out there.

Opinions?

[Maestro]

I really have no idea who could be good in that job, and there may be strong requirement from kroenke for maximum return on investment

interested to hear of some managers

[GP]

KLOPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Marc Overmars]

There seems to be a trend of clubs going for the newer breed of managers who are young, savvy and have the right philosophy.

I'd like us to go down the same route rather than go for someone seasoned with nothing to prove.

[Maestro]

KLOPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%BCrgen_Klopp

interesting option, but would he realistically take up the challenge at Arsena over what he's recently just built?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%BCrgen_Klopp

interesting option, but would he realistically take up the challenge at Arsena over what he's recently just built?

If he was still alive Edward Khil, a man of impenetrable optimism and positivity!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1orMXD_Ijbs

[Maestro]

If he was still alive Edward Khil, a man of impenetrable optimism and positivity!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1orMXD_Ijbs

now tat's more like it :dancingman:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Dragan Stojkovic is the most realistic choice as I would be amazed if the board didn't seek out Wenger's opinon/approval.

Not sure who I would want.

[fakeyank]

:arry:

[Grebbo]

Pulis

[Kano]

well i'm top of my work dream team league so i'll be putting my name forward.

failing that, beilsa could be fun.

but most likely stojkovic as maccy said above.

[LDG]

Pulis

Wash your face out with bleach!

[Xhaka Can’t]

Wash your face out with bleach!

An activity preferable to watching Stoke.

[Injury Time]

:bow: Bergkamp.

[-Xs-]

He wont fly, so nah.

Kevin Cullis ftw

[Injury Time]

He wont fly, so nah.

Kevin Cullis ftw
Stick ye logic up yer arse
I believe he can fly :cloud9:

[GP]

Stick ye logic up yer arse
I believe he can fly :cloud9:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxHVhxbtrhY

[Cripps_orig]

Mourinho

He won't come but we can dream

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

jenkinson's cousin

[Cripps_orig]

Pochettino or Laudrup

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Pochettino or Laudrup

Biggest must get since Wenger.

[BOBN]

Laudrup would be cool.

Shame he never played in England, would have been the greatest number 10 we've seen.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

He nearly did :rose:

[selassie]

My dream would be Klopp...but realistically someone like Laudrup or Martinez.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

klopp

pep

sid

bob

frank

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11668/8493840/Borussia-Dortmund-coach-Jurgen-Klopp-has-no-intention-of-taking-Chelsea-job

bould interim manager for 2 years

klopp comes in

:bow:

[Fats]

Dave Bassett
George Graham
Bernard Manning

[Injury Time]

Berty Bassett
Boy George
Bernard Matthews
Sweet.
Do u really want to hurt us?!
Zombie ftw!

[hymppi]

Anyone but Wumger atm.
Bould with Bergkamp as no2.
Dennis would have to be drugged before flights but he's dutch so he could smoke a joint or two, that'll do.

[Injury Time]

Anyone but Wumger atm.
Bould with Bergkamp as no2.
Dennis would have to be drugged before flights but he's dutch so he could smoke a joint or two, that'll do.
Bould?...Bould!...the "organising" our defence Bould...um...no.

WUMger is going nowhere, no point beating yourself up tbh.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Anyone, tbh. Fuck, I'd even take 'Arry at this point in time.

[Injury Time]

Anyone, tbh. Fuck, I'd even take 'Arry at this point in time.

:arry: shut it u mug

[Cripps_orig]

Anyone, tbh. Fuck, I'd even take 'Arry at this point in time.

Most would.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Most would.

:haha:

wums would. anyone with a brain who understands football, wouldnt.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Fuxake Ollie.

[Cripps_orig]

:haha:

wums would. anyone with a brain who understands football, wouldnt.
Why is it WUMmish to want a new manager?

[cricketsi]

Why is it WUMmish to want a new manager?

It isn't. Asking that question in this context, is.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

At least 'Arry would spend whatever money is available to him in a bid to strengthen the squad to make it competitive. Can't see him spouting the club spiel about 'top, top quality' or 'exceptional quality' (a bit of an irony considering the dross Wenger has bought and retains) or spewing utter drivel like 'we have the best AFCON player in Gervinho so no need to shop in the winter window'.

You clowns who like to attack or make futile attempts to patronise those of us whose views on Wenger are not in line with yours are the real wums. You spout your apologetic shit ad nauseum with much impunity on here, even in light of the fact that the man is clueless old deluded bat who only drags the club to new lows each season. Ffs, this season we've been knocked out of the two domestic cups by absolute pub teams. How much more embarrassing must it get before you AKB's realise that it's club 1st and all else after. It's not Arsene FC, it's Arsenal FC. We owe no allegiance to Wenger or any manager for that matter. Wenger is just another paid employee, and is pretty much as dispensable as any other employee, be it player, janitor, grounds man, etc. Hence, none is beyond criticism, whether you deem it constructive or otherwise.

[Xhaka Can’t]

At least 'Arry would spend whatever money is available to him in a bid to strengthen the squad to make it competitive. Can't see him spouting the club spiel about 'top, top quality' or 'exceptional quality' (a bit of an irony considering the dross Wenger has bought and retains) or spewing utter drivel like 'we have the best AFCON player in Gervinho so no need to shop in the winter window'.

You clowns who like to attack or make futile attempts to patronise those of us whose views on Wenger are not in line with yours are the real wums. You spout your apologetic shit ad nauseum with much impunity on here, even in light of the fact that the man is clueless old deluded bat who only drags the club to new lows each season. Ffs, this season we've been knocked out of the two domestic cups by absolute pub teams. How much more embarrassing must it get before you AKB's realise that it's club 1st and all else after. It's not Arsene FC, it's Arsenal FC. We owe no allegiance to Wenger or any manager for that matter. Wenger is just another paid employee, and is pretty much as dispensable as any other employee, be it player, janitor, grounds man, etc. Hence, none is beyond criticism, whether you deem it constructive or otherwise.

I honestly don't know who you are addressing.

If it is people who would not want Redknapp anywhere near the club, they are not wums in the slightest.

Ps what is the difference between Redknapp and a bra?

A bra has two cups.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

I honestly don't know who you are addressing.

If it is people who would not want Redknapp anywhere near the club, they are not wums in the slightest.

Ps whatever is the difference between Redknapp and a bra?

A bra has two cups.

Just my quarterly rant. Haven't worn my Wenger Out cap in a while and felt I needed to have a dig at anyone who is still in support of that git. Unimaginable that anyone can at this point tbh.

But on a real, this for Wenger / not for Wenger situation is really damaging. Fans have never been more divided or at each others throat.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Just my quarterly rant.

But on a real, this for Wenger / not for Wenger situation is really damaging. Fans have never been more divided or at each others throat.

Fair enough

In respect of Wenger, I think the consensus is that he has to go. The bad news is, he probably isn't until his contract is up.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Fair enough

In respect of Wenger, I think the consensus is that he has to go. The bad news is, he probably isn't until his contract is up.

I'm not even so sure about this. He scrambles 4th place over this season and next and a contract renewal/extension is definitely on the cards.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I can't see that happening. I honestly think we are approaching the end of the Wenger era. They won't sack him, but I doubt they'll offer him a new contract, and he probably won't want a new one anyway. Even he seems to see how toxic the situation is becoming.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

I guess I might be looking at it too much from the perspective that we have a profiteering Board.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I don't think you can ever discount that fear. But the cupboard is pretty nearly bare when it comes to profiteering through transfers. Wenger's usefulness in that regard has just about been exhausted. If anything, he'll probably be counterproductive to maxing out on profits with the amount of stupid contracts out there and the plethora of dross we have out on loan.

[12gaugepump]

I suppose BBA is talking about fans like me. I just think firing Wenger without getting rid of kroenke and at the least sacking Gazidis and changing the composition of the board will be futile. It might even spell the end of Arsenal at the top half of the table. I think we as fans can achieve more by demanding the halt in sale of our star players and paying the going rate salary wise for high performers in the team. The calls for Arsenes head only gives the board, gazidis and Kroenke a shield when they are the real reasons behind our decline.

[Lord Nelson]

I suppose BBA is talking about fans like me. I just think firing Wenger without getting rid of kroenke and at the least sacking Gazidis and changing the composition of the board will be futile. It might even spell the end of Arsenal at the top half of the table. I think we as fans can achieve more by demanding the halt in sale of our star players and paying the going rate salary wise for high performers in the team. The calls for Arsenes head only gives the board, gazidis and Kroenke a shield when they are the real reasons behind our decline.
I disagree slightly, we have bought a few decent players, and we have few young players that will/are making the grade (Wilshire, Gibbs, Ox etc). The problem is, we have a shit manager ! Bring Moyes in now and he would bring the best out of these players!

[Cripps_orig]

Ox is a bit shit

[GP]

I disagree slightly, we have bought a few decent players, and we have few young players that will/are making the grade (Wilshire, Gibbs, Ox etc). The problem is, we have a shit manager ! Bring Moyes in now and he would bring the best out of these players!

I agree we need a change of manager (of course) but I'm not convinced Moyes is the man. We need someone who's actually achieved something.

[selassie]

I agree we need a change of manager (of course) but I'm not convinced Moyes is the man. We need someone who's actually achieved something.

we actually have a manager who has achieved something but for one reason or another he doesn't have what it takes anymore. I'd happily trade Arsene for a young hungry manager who hasn't won a bean. I want ambition, sure the board have a part to play in this but arsene has form for his current methods, it's not like we're seeing a man who has suddenly changed his principles.

[GP]

Right.

But we need a manager who can take us to the next level. That's not Moyes.

[selassie]

Right.

But we need a manager who can take us to the next level. That's not Moyes.

Based on him working off a shoestring budget at a club that is currently going neck and neck with us? Sure Moyes isn't glamorous but he sure knows how to organise a team. I'm not for one minute advocating that I want Moyes here because I think there are better candidates out there but I do rate Moyes above Wenger tactically.

Moyes appears to get every last drip of talent out of his team, Wenger doesn't and hasn't for a good few years IMHO.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

i was also against the idea of moyes at first but im warming to him.

looking at it rationally, his players:

1. work hard for him
2. he motivates them
3. he organises the team well

the 3 things we're missing right now is players working hard for the manager, the manager motivating them, and thirdly, the manager organising that bloody defence.

so rational thought would suggest that it would be a good fit. over the past few years the accusation has been that his teams are a bit boring and stubborn when it comes to attacking but this season they've turned it up in terms of flair. some of their passing has been top notch and we've seen a culture change take place at goodison. they knock it about more often.

plus i read an article the other day regarding everton's finances and moyes has literally worked a miracle with a stupidly low budget. he literally has no money whatsoever every year yet still manages to get them near the top of the table every season. thats a sign of a good manager.

to do it for 2 or 3 seasons would suggest its luck or just a wave of fortune but to do it constantly for nearly a decade shows he's a bloody good manager.

give the guy bigger resources, better players and a bigger platform to perform on and im sure he'll do well. and wouldnt it be nice to pick up the newspaper and see something nice written about us for once? the press would like us and that would be weird.

whatever the outcome i dont care, just stick a fork in wenger- he's done.

[12gaugepump]

You lot insult a Legend by bringing up a novice (Moyes) by comparison who might I add was also embarrassed by a crap team this past weekend. I think you lot suffer from the same mental malaise that the team suffers from and are just looking for Wengers head after tireless french baiting by English journalist. If Arsene must go and we are too big to not have won trophies, why then would you lot settle for a man with no pedigree? Which players do you imagine Moyes would be able to attract to Arsenal? Even if they will come because its the Arsenal, the fact that you have chosen him because he would be able to work on a shoe string budget suggest there in lies the underlying cause of our decline and not the manager. You are allowed your opinions as I am but you cant discredit what the man has achieved. If Moyes was that good he should have taken Everton up a notch after all as someone pointed out Everton finished above Arsenal in 1996. I don't mean to be dissing Moyes as I do believe he his a good manager but he is certainly not one for a great club like ours.

[Marc Overmars]

Wenget is stale because he's still living off the glory which happened nearly 10, yes 10 years ago! He hasn't adapted at all and his methods and outlook are no different to what they were back then. In his mind he doesn't have anything to prove which is why you get spikey responses from him if that's called into question.

I'm beyond the point of caring now, I'd be happy to give anyone with something to prove a chance, if that means Moyes or another potentially great young manager without a trophy laden CV then so be it. Sometimes everyone just needs a big break and I believe with the set up we have here we offer that opportunity.

Of course I'd rather go for someone who's achieved tangible success but Klopp for example is going to be highly sought after when he calls it a day at Dortmund, would we push the boat out for him? When the time comes for a new manager I don't think we'll behave any differently to what we do in the transfer market. We'll look closer to home and I fully expect we'll get that Serbian mini-Wenget.

[Kano]

i'd have no problem with moyes. at the very least the team would be fucking motivated before they get onto the pitch and know exactly what it means to earn their pay packets.

in many ways it fits what moyes is looking for and what the board want and it would mean that we could at least have some pride back in watching our team every week.

[Globalgunner]

There are a fair few managers out there who could do a much better job than Wenger is doing right now. This team IMO is only achieving about 70% of what it could under this manager. More motivation, better training and tactics would yield a team that would be a lot closer than 21 points behind the log leaders and this is a perennial gap that only seems to get wider year on year. Laudrup, Simeone, Martinez, Moyes would all be a great improvement on Wenger. Reputations are not the only requirement for a new Manager, simple competence and desire to succeed, something that the current manager sorely lacks.

[Marc Overmars]

I just want someone I can believe in and get behind. I hate how we can all pretty much call what will happen every season, it totally saps the enjoyment for me.

[Niall_Quinn]

This is how low we have fallen. Moyes? Although I can see why the bastards would want him, he'd be prepared to sit there and do what so many on here slate Wenger for - put up with mediocrity. That's Moye's forte, he's been doing it for years. Nobody else has come in for him in all that time but now it looks like his deeply uninspiring talents may finally have been recognised and he could be moving up the mediocrity scale. I'd rather drop to 8th and fight back with an unknown manager than cement 4th spot for the next decade. Or put another way, if the board wants him then I don't.

[selassie]

You lot insult a Legend by bringing up a novice (Moyes) by comparison who might I add was also embarrassed by a crap team this past weekend. I think you lot suffer from the same mental malaise that the team suffers from and are just looking for Wengers head after tireless french baiting by English journalist. If Arsene must go and we are too big to not have won trophies , why then would you lot settle for a man with no pedigree? Which players do you imagine Moyes would be able to attract to Arsenal? Even if they will come because its the Arsenal, the fact that you have chosen him because he would be able to work on a shoe string budget suggest there in lies the underlying cause of our decline and not the manager. You are allowed your opinions as I am but you cant discredit what the man has achieved. If Moyes was that good he should have taken Everton up a notch after all as someone pointed out Everton finished above Arsenal in 1996. I don't mean to be dissing Moyes as I do believe he his a good manager but he is certainly not one for a great club like ours.

Forget about names for a second. My point here is that it's not about disrepecting Wenger and calling Manager X Y or Z better, this thread for me is about debating the flaws with our current manager and essentially saying now is the time to change things.

For me, it's got to the point now where Trophies aren't even in question, it's about calling out where Wenger is going wrong. He's making a lot of mistakes and they are plain for all to see. Where do we start? Wenger has built a squad where a quarter of the players in it are surplus to requirements but are taking home pretty big wages, he can't shift these players, nobody wants to touch them. His player recruitment policy is and has been extremely questionable for quite a while, the teams lack of focus and mental strength, the repeated mistakes, weak defence with lack of organisation. His self imposed policies such as the "wage structure", "over 30's" policy, he's implemented a lot of flawed policies IMHO.

Others have stated this, sure I would love a established manager who has won trophies all over to take over from Arsene but we have to be pretty realistic about Arsene's successor.

For me Arsene is not doing enough and certainly not using his resources wisely.

[Kano]

You lot insult a Legend by bringing up a novice (Moyes) by comparison who might I add was also embarrassed by a crap team this past weekend. I think you lot suffer from the same mental malaise that the team suffers from and are just looking for Wengers head after tireless french baiting by English journalist. If Arsene must go and we are too big to not have won trophies, why then would you lot settle for a man with no pedigree? Which players do you imagine Moyes would be able to attract to Arsenal? Even if they will come because its the Arsenal, the fact that you have chosen him because he would be able to work on a shoe string budget suggest there in lies the underlying cause of our decline and not the manager. You are allowed your opinions as I am but you cant discredit what the man has achieved. If Moyes was that good he should have taken Everton up a notch after all as someone pointed out Everton finished above Arsenal in 1996. I don't mean to be dissing Moyes as I do believe he his a good manager but he is certainly not one for a great club like ours.

because it's not all about winning. a bit of pride wouldn't go a miss and that disappeared a while ago under wenger.

[Özim]

I've come to the realisation that for some people none of this will ever be Wenger's fault, he gets a free pass, whatever he does he's doing a great job and is in an impossible position, no manager will do better.

That's a pretty great position, never having to answer for your failings on the pitch or off the pitch and still getting paid millions for it, is there another job in the world where someone gets paid so handsomely and is so easily absolved of any blame when things go wrong?

If none of this is his fault then why do we need him, he's clearly not doing anything?

In the end though, noone makes him sign the players he does, or makes him coach the way he does, noone forces tactics on him, or picks his team, noone else motivates his players or teaches to defend as they do...or is the fact he can't manage these things the boards fault as well?

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

You lot insult a Legend by bringing up a novice (Moyes) by comparison who might I add was also embarrassed by a crap team this past weekend. I think you lot suffer from the same mental malaise that the team suffers from and are just looking for Wengers head after tireless french baiting by English journalist. If Arsene must go and we are too big to not have won trophies, why then would you lot settle for a man with no pedigree? Which players do you imagine Moyes would be able to attract to Arsenal? Even if they will come because its the Arsenal, the fact that you have chosen him because he would be able to work on a shoe string budget suggest there in lies the underlying cause of our decline and not the manager. You are allowed your opinions as I am but you cant discredit what the man has achieved. If Moyes was that good he should have taken Everton up a notch after all as someone pointed out Everton finished above Arsenal in 1996. I don't mean to be dissing Moyes as I do believe he his a good manager but he is certainly not one for a great club like ours.

its easy to say that but if you take a look at what he's actually achieved it is a miracle. he has no money, and when i say no money, i literally mean no money. he's working at a club with a stadium which has no room for expansion so no-one is remotely interested in buying the club, and he's stuck with an owner who has their best interests at heart but has no money himself to invest in the club. we thought we were broke for the first few years when moving to the emirates but imagine being stuck like that forever, and having to work under those restrictions. thats what moyes is doing.

sometimes its about going with your gut feeling and giving a man a chance. yes he hasnt won a trophy but with bigger resources he can win trophies here. he deserves the chance and quite frankly, how much worse than wenger could he be? we are dire this season. wenger was pretty crap before he came to arsenal and look at what he achieved here up until 2005. he was given a chance and thats what moyes needs.

we'd also need a yes man with the current mob in charge and moyes is exactly that, he wont moan about resources, he'll just get on with it.

[Niall_Quinn]

I've come to the realisation that for some people none of this will ever be Wenger's fault, he gets a free pass, whatever he does he's doing a great job and is in an impossible position, no manager will do better.

That's a pretty great position, never having to answer for your failings on the pitch or off the pitch and still getting paid millions for it, is there another job in the world where someone gets paid so handsomely and is so easily absolved of any blame when things go wrong?

If none of this is his fault then why do we need him, he's clearly not doing anything?

In the end though, noone makes him sign the players he does, or makes him coach the way he does, noone forces tactics on him, or picks his team, noone else motivates his players or teaches to defend as they do...or is the fact he can't manage these things the boards fault as well?

Why do you keep throwing out this straw man argument? Not just you, but a few posters on here. Who is claiming the board are responsible for the tactics or the direct management of the team? Of course that's down to Wenger and certainly he has made a heap of mistakes. However, let's consider all the problems at the club, because all of those problems will need to be addressed and rectified before we can move on.

Any manager coming in is still going to be subject to this shitty board. It could be a new guy can motivate the team, organise things better, get some results. But we'd better be willing to settle for just that because the new guy will want to push on if he is in any way ambitious. That's when he'll hit a roadblock. And that's when we'll all start over again calling out the manager for not being able to go the extra mile.

Wenger has transformed himself from an asset to a liability from the fans perspective. No doubt he is still a huge asset in the board's eyes though. It has been said any ambitious club would have ditched Wenger by now, certainly a Chelsea or a City (joke clubs btw). But when the board's "ambitions" run so contrary to those of the fans we have a real problem as fans. Getting rid of Wenger might be a temporary solution to part of the problem but the big problem at the core of all other problems will still be very much with us.

If there's to be a campaign to oust Wenger I'd like to see twice the effort directed at the board too. If those fuckers buy themselves another couple of years to pursue their rotten agenda by switching out the manager that will be very bad news. I hope the fans can't be fooled so easily.

[Özim]

Why do you keep throwing out this straw man argument? Not just you, but a few posters on here. Who is claiming the board are responsible for the tactics or the direct management of the team? Of course that's down to Wenger and certainly he has made a heap of mistakes. However, let's consider all the problems at the club, because all of those problems will need to be addressed and rectified before we can move on.

Any manager coming in is still going to be subject to this shitty board. It could be a new guy can motivate the team, organise things better, get some results. But we'd better be willing to settle for just that because the new guy will want to push on if he is in any way ambitious. That's when he'll hit a roadblock. And that's when we'll all start over again calling out the manager for not being able to go the extra mile.

Wenger has transformed himself from an asset to a liability from the fans perspective. No doubt he is still a huge asset in the board's eyes though. It has been said any ambitious club would have ditched Wenger by now, certainly a Chelsea or a City (joke clubs btw). But when the board's "ambitions" run so contrary to those of the fans we have a real problem as fans. Getting rid of Wenger might be a temporary solution to part of the problem but the big problem at the core of all other problems will still be very much with us.

If there's to be a campaign to oust Wenger I'd like to see twice the effort directed at the board too. If those fuckers buy themselves another couple of years to pursue their rotten agenda by switching out the manager that will be very bad news. I hope the fans can't be fooled so easily.
I've never disagreed that the board are a problem, they have been for a long time, the way they do things their attitude etc stinks and I've been criticising them for years, I can remember when I was calling PHW out for what he was and people were telling me he loves the club and I should have more respect for what he's done for it.

In the end though you have to start somewhere and I'm personally sick of Wenger nonsense and his schoolboy errors and all around poor management, I just want him gone he's hasn't got it in him to turn it around even with a completely new board. You just can't excuse problem after problem (there are too many to name) and his pathetic excuses and defensive speeches, there's nothing left for him here all he's doing is tainting his image.

It's been a long time now since the days of free flowing football, world stars on the pitch and us being genuinely competitive, now we fail and try to convince people that it's not failure, noone will ever remember the club that came 4th in the league, an FA Cup winner however will go down in the history books. I frankly find insulting that our own manager refers to 4th as a major trophy and success, it's clearly the sign of a man who's lost his way and sold out to money as well.

Yes I'd love the board gone, but let's be realistic here, how likely is that to happen....you'd need something extraordinary to force a change like that and I simply can't see Arsenal fans ever doing anything like that, our best best it that some rich guy who is a football supporter and understand what being a fan is about actually buys them out and brings football back to the forefront, better than than a bunch of money obsessed people who see £££ signs instead of football.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Are you kidding me?

These days it is far easier to remember who finished fourth than who won the league.

Or to be more specific, it is easier to remember who gobbled up the las CL place available because it is always us.

[Özim]

I'm talking about in the longer term, in 20 years will anyone remember 4th place?

There's no silverware, there won't be any footage played it's a non-achievement, it only means something now due to money.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Jesus H.

[Özim]

It's "Jesus Wept"

[Özim]

Yeah I missed the joke, didn't realise you said league rather than cup!:doh:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No thanks to David Moyes

[milla]

Shelby Singh please :coffee:

[GP]

David Brent pls.

[milla]

David Brent pls.

David Brent can suck Shelby Singh left and right nuts. :coffee:

[Özil's Panoramic View]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21719120

:coffee:

[Injury Time]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21719120

:coffee:
Wenger to get extension then? :coffee:

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Wenger to get extension then? :coffee:

Was the only EPL manager I fancied taking over, tbh.

[GP]

Wenger to get extension then? :coffee:

Hope so.

[Cripps_orig]

Let's see how Laudrup does in his 2nd season with more games to play.

Yes he's far better than Wenger but that isn't saying much

[Niall_Quinn]

Let's see how Laudrup does in his 2nd season with more games to play.

Yes he's far better than Wenger but that isn't saying much

That was my view last year when the whole Swanselona nonsense was doing the rounds. But to be fair it looks like they have gone from strength to strength and good luck to them (except next week of course). Good team, good owners, well managed, proper players with their feet on the ground and they have their rewards. Our pampered pricks could learn a lot from them, if we didn't despise learning so much.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

In terms of realistic prospects and not the fantasy ones like Mourinho, Pep, Ancelotti etc etc, it's really difficult to identify a real ideal fit.

Personally I'm not sold on Moyes - he's a good manager and would be stable (i.e. I don't think he'd make us any worse) but as someone pointed out I'm not certain he could take us to to the next level. He's got his tried and trusted ways and would certainly improve our player motivation and defensive organisation but there are other things in which he's not as good as Wenger.

Laudrep's exciting and has been doing well at Swansea but I'd honestly like to see him at Swansea for a few more seasons before hailing him as our saviour. I remember when Owen Coyle was similarly doing well at Bolton and people on here were speculating on him being a future Arsenal manager, which seems like a complete joke at the moment.


Ultimately though regardless of whoever we choose there is going to be a large risk involved that things might not work out and we could end up falling even further down the table. I think at this point in time, most people are prepared to take that risk.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

In terms of realistic prospects and not the fantasy ones like Mourinho, Pep, Ancelotti etc etc, it's really difficult to identify a real ideal fit.

Personally I'm not sold on Moyes - he's a good manager and would be stable (i.e. I don't think he'd make us any worse) but as someone pointed out I'm not certain he could take us to to the next level. He's got his tried and trusted ways and would certainly improve our player motivation and defensive organisation but there are other things in which he's not as good as Wenger.

Laudrep's exciting and has been doing well at Swansea but I'd honestly like to see him at Swansea for a few more seasons before hailing him as our saviour. I remember when Owen Coyle was similarly doing well at Bolton and people on here were speculating on him being a future Arsenal manager, which seems like a complete joke at the moment.


Ultimately though regardless of whoever we choose there is going to be a large risk involved that things might not work out and we could end up falling even further down the table. I think at this point in time, most people are prepared to take that risk.

care to explain what they are?

[Cripps_orig]

Martinez is out of the running. Dave Whelan says he will go to a top European club which we arent

[Kano]

martinez is a good coach, nothing more. wouldn't do well at a big club. he can fuck off back to the championship with wigan.

[Cripps_orig]

Why wouldn't he do well at a big club? He's got Wigan who have shite ass players playing football in a way this current Arsenal side can only dream of. We have better players and with Martinez who is better than Wenger at the helm, we would do better

[Kano]

they go roundon cycle every season. same problems, never get fixed and they just about scrape by. after so many years, like wenger, things should be addressed and even small changes to improve their position in the league. but it never happens.

[Xhaka Can’t]

That makes no sense.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Lots of things don't make any sense; Wenger still being Arsenal manager is a prime example.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

By "people", I take it you mean the zombified wengerites who'd prefer having and maintaining our unprecented barren run, stagnation/decline as long as Le Goon remains incharge, right?

great post.

[Power n Glory]

Whoever we pick, they must have experience of winning a title in another league. It can't be a novice. Spurs are looking good because they have AVB in charge there who had an undefeated league win with Porto along with winning the domestic cups and Europa League. Laudrop looks good but he could just as easily share the same fate as Coyle or Rogers. It just might be a step too far.

Part of the reason why we're falling behind the pack is because there are more managers in the league with experience of winging titles elsewhere. When Wenger arrived that just wasn't the case and he never faced mangers that had a experience of winning league titles in other leagues. It's way too much of a risk to take on someone like Moyes or Laudrop. Moyes hasn't even win a domestic cup here with Everton so forget him. It's a step backwards as in the same way we bring in players with no experience of winning anything. It's going to be hard enough gassing up the players with that belief if our manager can't even boast about winning and having the 'been there done that T-shirt'.

[fakeyank]

Whoever we pick, they must have experience of winning a title in another league. It can't be a novice. Spurs are looking good because they have AVB in charge there who had an undefeated league win with Porto along with winning the domestic cups and Europa League. Laudrop looks good but he could just as easily share the same fate as Coyle or Rogers. It just might be a step too far.

Part of the reason why we're falling behind the pack is because there are more managers in the league with experience of winging titles elsewhere. When Wenger arrived that just wasn't the case and he never faced mangers that had a experience of winning league titles in other leagues. It's way too much of a risk to take on someone like Moyes or Laudrop. Moyes hasn't even win a domestic cup here with Everton so forget him. It's a step backwards as in the same way we bring in players with no experience of winning anything. It's going to be hard enough gassing up the players with that belief if our manager can't even boast about winning and having the 'been there done that T-shirt'.

Dont agree that any person, let alone another manager would be a step down from Wenger. Especially the names you mentioned... Klopp won f'all before Dortmund and look what he has done to the team. Martinez, Moyes, Laudrup all have the credentials to succeed at our club. Even being managerless wouldnt be a step down from Wenger IMO..

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Moyes? No thanks.

Cringe everytime I hear anyone name him as a likely replacement for Wenger.

[Xhaka Can’t]

great post.

It really was not. It made no sense at all.

It quoted a statement saying most people want to take the risk.

Which frankly isn't much of a risk at all.

And for those remaining who want to keep Wenger, I doubt they want more failure.

It is possible to want different approaches yet want success for the Club.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

It really was not. It made no sense at all.

It's ok, we all expect the pig that gets struck by the rock to squeal.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It's ok, we all expect the pig that gets struck by the rock to squeal.

That made more sense tbf.

[Marc Overmars]

Every good manager will be snapped up while Wenget continues to hang on for dear life, we're screwed either way.

[Xhaka Can’t]

We are years away from repair - the whole culture of the Club is one of acceptance of mediocrity. For a new Manager to change it, he would firstly have to be top class, and secondly, he'd need the support of the hierarchy.

AVB is a very capable manager - but without the support of the hierarchy as was the case at Chelsea, he never had a chance of success or changing the culture there - the result was he was out on his ass and made to look like a sqealing pig stuck by a rock.

I doubt a new manager will have the success we as fans want, because the culture of the whole Club will have to change, and that includes the culture of the people who runthe Club such as the owner and his executive team. I don't see anyone having the power to do that.

Ironically, the one man who possibly had that power a few years ago, is the man currently occupying the Manager's seat, but his stock has fallen, and along with it, the power to change anything. Not that it matters because he has bough hook line and sinker into the business model.

[Kano]

getting some pride back and a change of bad habits is the first step that we need and something a new manager will be able to deliver.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

It really was not. It made no sense at all.

It quoted a statement saying most people want to take the risk.

Which frankly isn't much of a risk at all.

And for those remaining who want to keep Wenger, I doubt they want more failure.

It is possible to want different approaches yet want success for the Club.

oh be quiet, stop trying to stir up an argument. i can say its a great post to whatever i want so shush.

awful modding and attempt to get a bite, but then its gw, what else did i expect.

[Power n Glory]

Dont agree that any person, let alone another manager would be a step down from Wenger. Especially the names you mentioned... Klopp won f'all before Dortmund and look what he has done to the team. Martinez, Moyes, Laudrup all have the credentials to succeed at our club. Even being managerless wouldnt be a step down from Wenger IMO..

What credentials do they have? Laudrop was a fantastic player and has recently won the league cup but he's still a huge risk that could potentially take us down to where Liverpool are. Wenger for all his faults still has the status and respect of his players. If he really flips and he'll get a reaction and support. No mass mutiny which can potentially happen if we bring in someone with less credentials than the players we have or hope to acquire.

As for Klopp, the German league has one powerhouse team in Bayern Munich. How many other teams are there in Germany that can rival Bayern's spending power? What Klopp has done is fantastic and the German league is getting better, I'd have no problem with Klopp coming here because he's won league titles and competed at the higest level. But the Prem is harder to win and dominate because you have three powerhouse teams that can match the spending power of any team in Europe and then our club and Liverpool with a history of winning and huge potential. If the title winners get complacent, as seen with City and United, there is a scrap for the title with two/three other clubs that have previously won the league and coaches that have experienced success in the Prem. The level of competition is fierce and I seriously doubt the guys you mentioned could pull off a Klopp.

[Xhaka Can’t]

oh be quiet, stop trying to stir up an argument. i can say its a great post to whatever i want so shush.

awful modding and attempt to get a bite, but then its gw, what else did i expect.

I'm not stirring up an argument - I'm entitled to post what I think too. And I was not 'moderating' I was 'posting'.

Other than me disagreeing that it was a top post - is there anything I said that you disagree with and/or find inflammatory?

[Xhaka Can’t]

What credentials do they have? Laudrop was a fantastic player and has recently won the league cup but he's still a huge risk that could potentially take us down to where Liverpool are. Wenger for all his faults still has the status and respect of his players. If he really flips and he'll get a reaction and support. No mass mutiny which can potentially happen if we bring in someone with less credentials than the players we have or hope to acquire.

As for Klopp, the German league has one powerhouse team in Bayern Munich. How many other teams are there in Germany that can rival Bayern's spending power? What Klopp has done is fantastic and the German league is getting better, I'd have no problem with Klopp coming here because he's won league titles and competed at the higest level. But the Prem is harder to win and dominate because you have three powerhouse teams that can match the spending power of any team in Europe and then our club and Liverpool with a history of winning and huge potential. If the title winners get complacent, as seen with City and United, there is a scrap for the title with two/three other clubs that have previously won the league and coaches that have experienced success in the Prem. The level of competition is fierce and I seriously doubt the guys you mentioned could pull off a Klopp.

I see what you are saying, but that seriously restricts our options when it comes to replacing Wenger. I don't think the risk of 'mass mutiny' is likely at the Club now. To orchestrate a mutiny, you have to have some form of power base within the Club. I can't think of anyone within the playing staff that is in a position of power - just about everyone is expendable and consequently incapable of making much of a ripple. This is in direct contrast to a Club like Chelsea who have a plethora of characters that can create major problems which resulted in AVB's position being undermined as a result of a lack of resolve from the top brass.

If anything, I feel the conditions here are ideal for taking a risk on the likes of Laudrop. And I think they could pay off in a major way if it goes right.

[cricketsi]

I'm not stirring up an argument - I'm entitled to post what I think too. And I was not 'moderating' I was 'posting'.

Other than me disagreeing that it was a top post - is there anything I said that you disagree with and/or find inflammatory?

I assumed his saying great post was sarcastic, in all honesty. Anyway, that post is gone - did a mod remove it, or was the poster just ashamed of it?

[Power n Glory]

Laudrop was a world class player which gives him more cred at least because he's performed at the higest level and was rated highly as a player. That can rub off on the players. But it's still a risk because this is his first league run in the Prem and I think we need to wait a while before throwing out all the praise. Swansea played fantastic football before he arrived which is why I'm still a little hesitant. But he's a better option over Moyes or Maryinez in my opinion. He's won a league fecking cup at least with a smaller team relatively new to the Prem. In no way shape or form would I be happy for Moyes to take over. He hasn't won anything with Everton. Far too risky.

As for the mutiny factor, it doesn't have to take a clique of long established players, I mean in the sense that we just won't get a performance from some players and if we bring in a novice after Wenger and things start going wrong, you have to wonder what a guy that hasn't won anything and is small compared to Wenger can say to slap them into shape? He can ship players out if their a problem but what sort of players are we likely to attract when out of Europe and a manger known for managing mid table/ newly promoted / relegation scrap clubs? I hear the Klopp story but there are big fish in the Prem and Mourinho is likely to be back here very soon and he won't be our coach for damn sure. There will be some huge sharks swimming in these parts and a baptism of fire for any new coach making a step up to his first big club. I don't think any of the coaches we have here are ready to take on such a big role.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

I assumed his saying great post was sarcastic, in all honesty. Anyway, that post is gone - did a mod remove it, or was the poster just ashamed of it?

Affirmative :lol:

Saw where I went wrong after GB and SWAYR started to back and forth, and deleted that crap.

Probably was the build up/tone of EG's post that caused me to see/read a "NOT" that was not actually there.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Laudrop was a world class player which gives him more cred at least because he's performed at the higest level and was rated highly as a player. That can rub off on the players. But it's still a risk because this is his first league run in the Prem and I think we need to wait a while before throwing out all the praise. Swansea played fantastic football before he arrived which is why I'm still a little hesitant. But he's a better option over Moyes or Maryinez in my opinion. He's won a league fecking cup at least with a smaller team relatively new to the Prem. In no way shape or form would I be happy for Moyes to take over. He hasn't won anything with Everton. Far too risky.

As for the mutiny factor, it doesn't have to take a clique of long established players, I mean in the sense that we just won't get a performance from some players and if we bring in a novice after Wenger and things start going wrong, you have to wonder what a guy that hasn't won anything and is small compared to Wenger can say to slap them into shape? He can ship players out if their a problem but what sort of players are we likely to attract when out of Europe and a manger known for managing mid table/ newly promoted / relegation scrap clubs? I hear the Klopp story but there are big fish in the Prem and Mourinho is likely to be back here very soon and he won't be our coach for damn sure. There will be some huge sharks swimming in these parts and a baptism of fire for any new coach making a step up to his first big club. I don't think any of the coaches we have here are ready to take on such a big role.

not sure about that. wenger has won a list of trophies and had the world at his feet not long ago but look at the way players respond to him. do they seem to care? no. do they seem to respond to him? no. are they motivated? no. and it wasnt long ago he masterminded an invincibles team!

so if you're judging moyes on a lack of trophies then i think its highly irresponsible. go read about everton's finances just to see how much of a job he's done on an absolute shoe string then come back and say he's a risk. lets get one thing straight, finishing consistently in the top 7 (bar 1 or 2 seasons) in the premier league is a much harder task than winning a trophy. on top of that with hardly any money either. by your logic, alex mcleish is a better manager than moyes then?

trophies are important but with moyes i think its different. i think the miracle he's been performing with very limited finances makes up for a trophy. in fact, its probably worth 10 trophies. the guy needs a chance at a top club and if he were to take over id be delighted. give him more resources, better facilities and a top club and i think he'll go up a notch. but he needs a stable club like arsenal not a chelsea because there's going to be a period of transition whenever wenger finally decides to go. but personally id welcome moyes.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Affirmative :lol:

Saw where I went wrong after GB and SWAYR started to back and forth, and deleted that crap.

Probably was the build up/tone of EG's post that caused me to see/read a "NOT" that was not actually there.

you didnt do anything wrong tbh

oh wait its gw and if you speak out against wenger then you're a glory hunter

sorry yes you did.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

you didnt do anything wrong tbh

oh wait its gw and if you speak out against wenger then you're a glory hunter

sorry yes you did.

I did misread/misconstrue what EG posted.

If he had said "...people are 'not'....", then I'd never had deleted my post, as I'd have been quite right.

[Power n Glory]

not sure about that. wenger has won a list of trophies and had the world at his feet not long ago but look at the way players respond to him. do they seem to care? no. do they seem to respond to him? no. are they motivated? no. and it wasnt long ago he masterminded an invincibles team!

so if you're judging moyes on a lack of trophies then i think its highly irresponsible. go read about everton's finances just to see how much of a job he's done on an absolute shoe string then come back and say he's a risk. lets get one thing straight, finishing consistently in the top 7 (bar 1 or 2 seasons) in the premier league is a much harder task than winning a trophy. on top of that with hardly any money either. by your logic, alex mcleish is a better manager than moyes then?

trophies are important but with moyes i think its different. i think the miracle he's been performing with very limited finances makes up for a trophy. in fact, its probably worth 10 trophies. the guy needs a chance at a top club and if he were to take over id be delighted. give him more resources, better facilities and a top club and i think he'll go up a notch. but he needs a stable club like arsenal not a chelsea because there's going to be a period of transition whenever wenger finally decides to go. but personally id welcome moyes.

:lol: You've got to see the funny side in telling me to look up Everton's finances, and praising a manager that has never won a trophy at his time with Everton but then argue a top 7 finish is more important than trophy. Doesn't that sound like the sort of argument people make for Wenger? Damn right I'm judging Moyes on lack of trophies because if he was that good he'd have at least have a one two domestic cups in the cabinet and maybe an impressive run in the Europa League like how McLaren and Hodgson. At least! In no way would Moyes be a step up from Wenger and I'm not about to look at balance sheets and consistent top 10 finishes to justify his credentials. How can you crucify Wenger for such a weak argument and want him gone but then make a similar case for the appointment of Moyes? Madness.

Arsene Wenger is a soft touch and doesn't drill the players properly or tell them the hard facts enough when it comes to their performances and ability. But he still has there respect and there hasn't been a player or ex player under him that has come out to disrespect him. I think he chooses the wrong methods to prepare for matches but if he'd hit the roof at half time or in training the players will put in a shift. But that's besides the point. You have to see the irony in the case your making for Moyes and then look at the arguments being made for Wenger's record.

Edit:

Also, the playing style and philosophy of Moyes doesn't suit what we've built here at Arsenal. We're an attacking team and all about technical excellence. We need to balance out the defence but taking on Moyes is step too far. I would much rather have Laudrop. He comes from the school of Total Football because he played at Barca and under Cryuff alongside Pep. In fact, just saying that has convinced me that Laudrop would be a fit here.

GB: You're right. We should snap that guy up.

[Kano]

not convinced on laudrup yet. football is forever full of the next hottest thing who then fail to sustain that same level after their break through. give him another season, keeping swansea top ten and doing fairly well in europe then that'll prove he has something long term.

before he came here he won a few cups in some denmark but has moved from club to club very quickly.

there isn't a manager than can move us 'to the next level' under this current board, so moyes is as good as anyone when it comes to at least getting us out of our repetitive cycle and putting some pride back into performances. wenger and graham were absolute unknowns to us in the uk in comparative terms before they took the reigns, so past success isn't the most important criteria.

i'd prefer Pellegrini or Bielsa but whether they'll be available in 2014 is a different matter.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:lol: You've got to see the funny side in telling me to look up Everton's finances, and praising a manager that has never won a trophy at his time with Everton but then argue a top 7 finish is more important than trophy. Doesn't that sound like the sort of argument people make for Wenger? Damn right I'm judging Moyes on lack of trophies because if he was that good he'd have at least have a one two domestic cups in the cabinet and maybe an impressive run in the Europa League like how McLaren and Hodgson. At least! In no way would Moyes be a step up from Wenger and I'm not about to look at balance sheets and consistent top 10 finishes to justify his credentials. How can you crucify Wenger for such a weak argument and want him gone but then make a similar case for the appointment of Moyes? Madness.

Arsene Wenger is a soft touch and doesn't drill the players properly or tell them the hard facts enough when it comes to their performances and ability. But he still has there respect and there hasn't been a player or ex player under him that has come out to disrespect him. I think he chooses the wrong methods to prepare for matches but if he'd hit the roof at half time or in training the players will put in a shift. But that's besides the point. You have to see the irony in the case your making for Moyes and then look at the arguments being made for Wenger's record.

Edit:

Also, the playing style and philosophy of Moyes doesn't suit what we've built here at Arsenal. We're an attacking team and all about technical excellence. We need to balance out the defence but taking on Moyes is step too far. I would much rather have Laudrop. He comes from the school of Total Football because he played at Barca and under Cryuff alongside Pep. In fact, just saying that has convinced me that Laudrop would be a fit here.

GB: You're right. We should snap that guy up.

not really. football is context specific, look at the size of everton compared to us. we can justify moyes finishing top 7 and no trophy because they have little finances, they are a smaller club with inferior facilities and there is less expectation. we can lambast wenger for no trophies because we are a bigger club, with bigger resources and better facilities. so damn right ill have a go at him and use it as a yardstick for results at arsenal. we are performing at the lowest of our capabilities but everton have been performing at their highest for years, and thats solely down to one man.

and why have you moved the goalposts? you went from saying something along the lines of 'a manager has to win a trophy to be considered good' to 'actually a good run in the europa league can do it too'. well ill move the goalposts a third time; a consistent top 7 finish at a club with lesser finances proves a manager is good and deserves a chance at a top club. you see it works both ways! if we're judging it based on trophies then according to your hypothesis we need alex mcleish here. well that clearly wouldnt work would it, so you have to take other things into consideration, the overall picture etc.

and respect has little to do with performance nowadays. wenger has all the respect in the world but when it doesnt correlate to performance, whats the use? give me a man with 'lesser' respect but can actually deliver results, over a two bob who has respect based on performances almost a decade ago. but who says moyes has less respect than wenger anyway? has a player ever disrespected him? i cant recall so.

finally, your last point- everton have been very good on the eye this year. at the start of the year they were flying with good passing, high tempo football. dropped off a bit but still decent. he used to be a rigid manager but now his teams are expressing themselves more. he'll adapt, just like any manager would, to the resources at his disposal. in fact id argue the first thing we need to do is address our defence so if he comes in and changes this tippy tappy, slow tempo crap, to sticking a few more players behind the ball and counter attacking, i think we'd flourish.

[Power n Glory]

not really. football is context specific, look at the size of everton compared to us. we can justify moyes finishing top 7 and no trophy because they have little finances, they are a smaller club with inferior facilities and there is less expectation. we can lambast wenger for no trophies because we are a bigger club, with bigger resources and better facilities. so damn right ill have a go at him and use it as a yardstick for results at arsenal. we are performing at the lowest of our capabilities but everton have been performing at their highest for years, and thats solely down to one man.

and why have you moved the goalposts? you went from saying something along the lines of 'a manager has to win a trophy to be considered good' to 'actually a good run in the europa league can do it too'. well ill move the goalposts a third time; a consistent top 7 finish at a club with lesser finances proves a manager is good and deserves a chance at a top club. you see it works both ways! if we're judging it based on trophies then according to your hypothesis we need alex mcleish here. well that clearly wouldnt work would it, so you have to take other things into consideration, the overall picture etc.

and respect has little to do with performance nowadays. wenger has all the respect in the world but when it doesnt correlate to performance, whats the use? give me a man with 'lesser' respect but can actually deliver results, over a two bob who has respect based on performances almost a decade ago. but who says moyes has less respect than wenger anyway? has a player ever disrespected him? i cant recall so.

finally, your last point- everton have been very good on the eye this year. at the start of the year they were flying with good passing, high tempo football. dropped off a bit but still decent. he used to be a rigid manager but now his teams are expressing themselves more. he'll adapt, just like any manager would, to the resources at his disposal. in fact id argue the first thing we need to do is address our defence so if he comes in and changes this tippy tappy, slow tempo crap, to sticking a few more players behind the ball and counter attacking, i think we'd flourish.

That still doesn't sound right to me. We sack our guy that has actually won silverware and has finished in the top 4 consistently since he's been here for guy that has a consistent top 10 record? If the Board appointed Moyes you know we're well and truly fucked. They're not taking into account his history of winning, his playing style, philosophy, appeal around Europe or record in Europe, nope they'd be thinking at that juicy balance sheet and thinking how much easier it would be to penny pinch with a man like Moyes in charge. That would be the sign of doom if it ever crossed their mind to appoint him. That's context.

I'm not moving the goal posts either, just saying there is a bare minimum we should accept and of course McLeish isn't a consideration, get serious. I'd be deeply worried if we appointed Moyes because I think these current fuckers will be trying to pull of their own austerity measures at the Emirates. When we start appointing mangers on that basis then you know we're in serious trouble.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

That still doesn't sound right to me. We sack our guy that has actually won silverware and has finished in the top 4 consistently since he's been here for guy that has a consistent top 10 record? If the Board appointed Moyes you know we're well and truly fucked. They're not taking into account his history of winning, his playing style, philosophy, appeal around Europe or record in Europe, nope they'd be thinking at that juicy balance sheet and thinking how much easier it would be to penny pinch with a man like Moyes in charge. That would be the sign of doom if it ever crossed their mind to appoint him. That's context.

I'm not moving the goal posts either, just saying there is a bare minimum we should accept and of course McLeish isn't a consideration, get serious. I'd be deeply worried if we appointed Moyes because I think these current fuckers will be trying to pull of their own austerity measures at the Emirates. When we start appointing mangers on that basis then you know we're in serious trouble.

i get your point but im looking at it from a different perspective. logically, im thinking moyes is good in 3 areas:

1. organisation
2. motivation
3. tactics

the three things we lack right now are these 3. he hasnt won trophies and he hasnt had an illustrious playing career to fall back on like laudrup, but he has delivered in the toughest league in the world for nearly a decade on a shoe string budget and little resources. id argue thats more impressive than what laudrup has achieved as a manager even though laudrup won a few trophies with some danish club. im sure if moyes went to another country such as sweden and took over a club in their top division, he'd manage them right to the top too. so it isnt really a yardstick to base an argument on. you really think the players here will acknowledge the fact he won the danish cup? or the carling cup for that matter? i mean id accept your argument if you were making comparisons between moyes and a super-giant like ancelotti or pep, but laudrup? really? come on now.

if we are arguing who has been a better manager over the past few years out of moyes and wenger then there's an argument for both; moyes at everton is doing an incredible job and finishing in the top 7 is some achievement. they could easily have faltered and become a bunch of nobodies like so many other clubs but he's got this burning desire to keep getting the best out of players and a hunger to keep going at a club which reached its limits years ago. what has wenger done over the past few years to allow you to disregard moyes for him in an instant? wengers been tactically clueless, stubborn, and failed to address our issues. its been year on year decline. our last great team was 07/08 and look how that ended. if you're worried about being efficient with resources and having to be the boards pet then surely moyes would be the least of your worries? has he fucked up their wage structure? has he overpaid average no hopers? in fact if you're on a budget (which many believe wenger is) then moyes is surely the best guy for that? he's been doing wonders at everton.

who has achieved most with what they've had over recent years? moyes. who has done more in their overall career? clearly wenger. but we cant wait for an old dog to learn new tricks and whilst wengers living in the past, moyes is living in the present. its silly to say 'we cant sack wenger and bring in someone who's got a worse record in the league' because thats like saying 'id give wenger the keys to my ferrari cause he beat moyes 10 times around the track with his porsche, even though moyes was using his ford focus'. different clubs, different facilities, different resources and different circumstances.

he probably would be the boards pet but any manager that comes in would be. we cant even base our discussion on that argument because we will never go for a manager that defies the boards money pinching culture. so when you incorporate everything and take our position into account, moyes would be a pretty decent fit; a yes man, a guy who doesnt complain, but most of all, someone who gets the most out of players. wenger is on a downward sloping curve but moyes is upwards sloping. simple.

[Power n Glory]

Tactics, motivation and organisation...there are mangers out there that have that along with good records in other league and Europe. Neither Moyes or Laudrup are ideal candidates but I'd pick Laudrop because his history as a player adds a lot of weight to what he says when coaching. He has played with the biggest clubs in the world and earned the respect of the best. That will count for a lot when coaching players. He also comes from the school of Total Football and has a style that is very close to what we play here. But he still has a lot to prove. But I could almost respect the Board taking a risk on a young manager that was one of the world's best in the 90s and coached by a legend/ played alongside legends. Maybe they'd see him as the next big manager like Pep...who knows but I could at least respect that sort of risk. Moyes would seem like a safe bet and safety net appointment. Gret with money and a top 10 finish guaranteed. It's like Arsene now. Little risk involved just stability and good balancing of the books. I'd be well worried if we went and got Moyes. We should be aiming higher than both of these guys in truth but if we're going for someone untested and at a smaller club, it should be someone that at least was well respected as a player and has that total football philosophy.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Tactics, motivation and organisation...there are mangers out there that have that along with good records in other league and Europe. Neither Moyes or Laudrup are ideal candidates but I'd pick Laudrop because his history as a player adds a lot of weight to what he says when coaching. He has played with the biggest clubs in the world and earned the respect of the best. That will count for a lot when coaching players. He also comes from the school of Total Football and has a style that is very close to what we play here. But he still has a lot to prove. But I could almost respect the Board taking a risk on a young manager that was one of the world's best in the 90s and coached by a legend/ played alongside legends. Maybe they'd see him as the next big manager like Pep...who knows but I could at least respect that sort of risk. Moyes would seem like a safe bet and safety net appointment. Gret with money and a top 10 finish guaranteed. It's like Arsene now. Little risk involved just stability and good balancing of the books. I'd be well worried if we went and got Moyes. We should be aiming higher than both of these guys in truth but if we're going for someone untested and at a smaller club, it should be someone that at least was well respected as a player and has that total football philosophy.

can you name me some realistic candidates then? and managers you actually know about in terms of tactics, motivation and organisation, i dont just want a list of fantasised names who you assume achieve the criteria and you dont actually know much about, because i think you'll find its harder than you think.

and i still find it laughable you wax lyrics about laudrup, who has been here for 1 season and took a team who had everything set in place, yet disregard moyes, who took everton from nothing and has been doing it for almost a decade. but moyes is no lord laudrup! if only his name was moyesinho and he was a bit more suave!

[Power n Glory]

Isn’t Moyes one the longest serving Prem bosses behind Wenger and Fergie? When you have that sort of job stability when clubs like Villa, Newcastle, West Ham, Fulham keep chopping and changing managers it works in your favour. Tony Pulis will be able to maintain a good league position record if the Stoke Board and fans don’t rock the boat.

He’s qualified for the Europa League on a number of occasions and he’s never done well in the competition. He’s also never won any of the domestic cups. Those aren’t good signs to me. There are other candidates out there that are doing similar things in other leagues on small budgets but beating some of Europe’s finest and winning cups. I wouldn’t be able to name them all because I don’t watch enough of the other leagues but I’m sure a few people on here could probably help out. Either way, Wenger wouldn't have been on the fans radar when we first signed him but he at least won the French League before he arrived here. Moyes hasn't won anything or done well in Europe to be such a dead cert here.

[LDG]

We should be looking for a top draw manager, and paying accordingly. Nothing but the best will do, so all this talk of Moyes and other mediocre managers is rubbish, IMO.

[Kano]

but a top tier manager would want a decent budget and support to succeed, not to come in and play the company line and do the minimum. the top tier guys won't be interested in that at all.

we're looking at tier two type managers, or those that have a record of overachieving on smaller resources.

[Cripps_orig]

It'll be one of Garde or Stojkovic I think his name is.

Both are Wenger protégés who will move upstairs. Both will toe the company line. Nothing will change. The only question is how much they want in wages and who ever is cheapest will get it.

[Power n Glory]

but a top tier manager would want a decent budget and support to succeed, not to come in and play the company line and do the minimum. the top tier guys won't be interested in that at all.

we're looking at tier two type managers, or those that have a record of overachieving on smaller resources.

And Moyes isn't a tier two type. Maybe someone that has done well in the Europa league and won domestic cups at least whilst having a good league record. Or an International manager ready for club football.

[Kano]

that's why i said OR someone who has a good record of overachieving on small resources.

that is one of the biggest criteria they will be looking at.

[Marc Overmars]

Not fussed about Moyes although I would like to see how he'd fare with money to spend. A glittering CV is not the be all and end all for me, it's just about the right person. I haven't given it huge thought who I'd like to replace Wenget, but one things for sure is that we currently aren't getting anywhere with him in charge. I'm optimistic enough to believe that with the resources we have and the fact Arsenal is still a big draw, we have a good chance of improving under a lot of potentially suitable managers.

[Power n Glory]

that's why i said OR someone who has a good record of overachieving on small resources.

that is one of the biggest criteria they will be looking at.

That could be Tony Pulis of all people. :lol:

[Cripps_orig]

Not a Moyes fan. He's done a decent job at Everton but he's been there 11 years and they much like us under Wenger have stagnated. He should have taken them to the next level which he hasn't. Everton are a massive club so he has no excuse. It's not like he's managing a Wigan or a WBA where staying up every season is regarded a success. He should have pushed on with Everton and didn't.

[Kano]

That could be Tony Pulis of all people. :lol:

for the amount that ****s spent over the past few years, he should be doing a lot better.

[Özim]

Not a Moyes fan. He's done a decent job at Everton but he's been there 11 years and they much like us under Wenger have stagnated. He should have taken them to the next level which he hasn't. Everton are a massive club so he has no excuse. It's not like he's managing a Wigan or a WBA where staying up every season is regarded a success. He should have pushed on with Everton and didn't.
Yeah not a big fan either, he's done OK with what he's got and does have an eye for talent, but he does remind me of Wenger a lot although better tactically.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Isn’t Moyes one the longest serving Prem bosses behind Wenger and Fergie? When you have that sort of job stability when clubs like Villa, Newcastle, West Ham, Fulham keep chopping and changing managers it works in your favour. Tony Pulis will be able to maintain a good league position record if the Stoke Board and fans don’t rock the boat.

He’s qualified for the Europa League on a number of occasions and he’s never done well in the competition. He’s also never won any of the domestic cups. Those aren’t good signs to me. There are other candidates out there that are doing similar things in other leagues on small budgets but beating some of Europe’s finest and winning cups. I wouldn’t be able to name them all because I don’t watch enough of the other leagues but I’m sure a few people on here could probably help out. Either way, Wenger wouldn't have been on the fans radar when we first signed him but he at least won the French League before he arrived here. Moyes hasn't won anything or done well in Europe to be such a dead cert here.

so you cant name any. in other words, you lambast moyes for his achievements but you cannot even name other notable replacements.

thats what i call a weak argument.

our discussion is done.

[Power n Glory]

for the amount that ****s spent over the past few years, he should be doing a lot better.

What's Stoke's spending like compared to other clubs like Everton, Fulham, Sunderland....etc?

[Kano]

What's Stoke's spending like compared to other clubs like Everton, Fulham, Sunderland....etc?

more than all of those. 7th highest in the prem between 03-11. it's part of the reason stoke fans are getting fed up of pulis, because the football is shit, the bedding in period is over now and it's time to start improving. the sell on value of their players is diabolical.

http://transferleague.co.uk/

plus i read a stat somewhere a month or so ago that their net spend over the past few years is higher than ours :lol:

[Özim]

Stoke wouldn't even be in the PL without Pulis, they're a small club which he's turned into a mainstay in the PL, they're never going to be competing for trophies as they're just never going to have the resources (well with the exception of the CC, but that takes a bit of luck with the draw etc) and will never be a big club, they're punching above their weight in many ways.

I reckon if he ever leaves they'll get relegated as often happens with these small teams when the manager who's put them on the map moves on. Maybe they'll enjoy prettier football in the Championship more, I doubt it somehow.

We had Graham for years and the football wasn't pretty (a lot of the time), but I loved the club in those years, we had a resilience and never say die attitude that which made you believe and kept you on the edge of your seat in games we had no right to win, now sure we have prettier football (not by much I might add) but there's no soul to the team and it's predictable and if I'm honest boring, football isn't just about weaving pretty patterns on the pitch.

[Kano]

nah, you can hoof the ball to survive for a few years but when you have a few bob to spend then to keep playing football the lazy why shows you up to be a one trick pony unable to move on. we're seeing the same but on a different scale.

wba, everton, newcastle, fulham and co don't play superstar football but neither do they play the god awful turdball served up by pulis.

the bedding in period to settle into the prem is finished but they should be aiming to break into the top 8 now, but they never will as they are.

pushing the argument onto 'pretty football' is not what the argument against pulis is about. read a stoke forum and you'll understand.

[Power n Glory]

so you cant name any. in other words, you lambast moyes for his achievements but you cannot even name other notable replacements.

thats what i call a weak argument.

our discussion is done.

:lol: What achievements? You're the guy holding up a candidate that hasn't won anything with Everton and pointing to his balance sheet when it's the pretty similar to the argument being made to get shot of Wenger. Where is the logic in that?

If we're going to play the name game....Klopp(Dortmund), Vicente Del Bosque(Spain), Diego Simeone (Athltico Madrid), Manuel Pellegrini (Malaga) Low (German coach)...maybe one of the coaches in Portugal...those clubs usually do good in the Uefa Cup and need a bigger challenge as Mourinho did.

Since the World Cup is coming up there may be an opening for some jobs after this tournament. But besides that, it’s worth keeping an eye on the Europa League because that’s where you can see some talented teams. If Moyes is getting beaten up in the UEFA Cup where he’s up against teams that are financially restrained as well, then it’s not a great sign. I'm sure we can find better candidates than Moyes.

Edit - Napoli caoch Walter Mazzarri. I forgot about him. Put together a fantastic team and play good football but I have serious doubts about a 3-4-3 formation here at Arsenal. But it's something fresh and new I suppose.

[Injury Time]

more than all of those. 7th highest in the prem between 03-11. it's part of the reason stoke fans are getting fed up of pulis, because the football is shit, the bedding in period is over now and it's time to start improving. the sell on value of their players is diabolical.

http://transferleague.co.uk/

plus i read a stat somewhere a month or so ago that their net spend over the past few years is higher than ours :lol:
Stat I provided :tiphat:
But just found salary+ net transfer spend every season since 2000... Leeds :yikes:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/9514149/Graphic-Premier-League-transfer-and-wage-spending-from-the-200001-season-to-201112.html

[Power n Glory]

more than all of those. 7th highest in the prem between 03-11. it's part of the reason stoke fans are getting fed up of pulis, because the football is shit, the bedding in period is over now and it's time to start improving. the sell on value of their players is diabolical.

http://transferleague.co.uk/

plus i read a stat somewhere a month or so ago that their net spend over the past few years is higher than ours :lol:

Not surprised that they spend more than us. But because they are pretty new to the Prem, I think it's hard to expect them to really push on so quickly.

[Kano]

Not surprised that they spend more than us. But because they are pretty new to the Prem, I think it's hard to expect them to really push on so quickly.
the prem has been around for 20 years and they've been in it for a quarter of that period, so not that new anymore. if they had a manager that bought smart purchases that done them a job and earned a good sell on value, now that's a good manager. but just sticking with the same old tired approach season after season and treading water will only lead one way in the end. stoke have established themselves in this league and it is time to push on. they are in the perfect position to do so and are more stable than most clubs will ever be. they've done well to get where they are but the days of 'staying the division being a success' are gone.

[Power n Glory]

That’s a little harsh. We’re talking 2007/08. How many other teams with a longer established run in the Prem have really kicked on? Teams like West Ham, Bolton, Blackburn and Newcastle have dropped into a lower division and they’re bigger clubs. Villa are in a real crisis, Sunderland aren’t pushing on and it’s not as if Everton are setting the world on fire in all their years in the league either…. Fulham are hit and miss and these team have been in the league longer. It’s well harsh to expect Stoke to be do more in such a short space of time when many teams around them haven’t.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:lol: What achievements? You're the guy holding up a candidate that hasn't won anything with Everton and pointing to his balance sheet when it's the pretty similar to the argument being made to get shot of Wenger. Where is the logic in that?

If we're going to play the name game....Klopp(Dortmund), Vicente Del Bosque(Spain), Diego Simeone (Athltico Madrid), Manuel Pellegrini (Malaga) Low (German coach)...maybe one of the coaches in Portugal...those clubs usually do good in the Uefa Cup and need a bigger challenge as Mourinho did.

Since the World Cup is coming up there may be an opening for some jobs after this tournament. But besides that, it’s worth keeping an eye on the Europa League because that’s where you can see some talented teams. If Moyes is getting beaten up in the UEFA Cup where he’s up against teams that are financially restrained as well, then it’s not a great sign. I'm sure we can find better candidates than Moyes.

Edit - Napoli caoch Walter Mazzarri. I forgot about him. Put together a fantastic team and play good football but I have serious doubts about a 3-4-3 formation here at Arsenal. But it's something fresh and new I suppose.

you dont seem to get the concept of moyes being at a smaller club hence the lack of trophies becomes acceptable. theres only so many times i can try to explain it before giving up. but yes he should have won the premier league, the fa cup at least 3 times and the champions league with everton so you're right, he's shit! so lets go for laudrup who has won the mighty carling cup! and been here for 1 year! and who took over a team where the 2 previous managers set everything in place!

great logic.

anyway

klopp - hope he comes
bosque - what drugs are you on
simeone - why would he leave?
pellegrini - hope he comes
low - wont come/his club record isnt actually that great. he won a cup with dortmund 15 years ago and f all since.

and did you just google the european league tables and take a punt on backing a few managers in each league? :lol: i mean have you actually seen simeone for example? id trust maccy's judgement if i were debating with him cause he has a serious interest in la liga but i rarely see you taking an interest so im not sure how you're making all these judgements.

[Kano]

That’s a little harsh. We’re talking 2007/08. How many other teams with a longer established run in the Prem have really kicked on? Teams like West Ham, Bolton, Blackburn and Newcastle have dropped into a lower division and they’re bigger clubs. Villa are in a real crisis, Sunderland aren’t pushing on and it’s not as if Everton are setting the world on fire in all their years in the league either…. Fulham are hit and miss and these team have been in the league longer. It’s well harsh to expect Stoke to be do more in such a short space of time when many teams around them haven’t.

villa just wasted money and created their own problems. they were top 5, spending shedloads and then fucked it all up. everton stay top 7, no lower and fulham hit top ten, mid table on a lot less money than Stoke have spent - they got to a euro final ffs! Sunderland have thrown a lot of money at things too but changed managers too often. bolton achieved better when with a fixed manager, like stoke have now. newcastle? well, they're just a joke, we all know that. Stoke? A healthy amount of cash, stable crowds and the same manager. No excuse for the same old shit.

No one is expecting them to have achieved it by now but to be making steps towards that. and they're not. which is why even stoke fans are getting tired of it.

anyway, this isn't wearestoke****s.com so that's enough of that on this.

they are also orcish ****s, so that is enough to prove my point.

[Power n Glory]

you dont seem to get the concept of moyes being at a smaller club hence the lack of trophies becomes acceptable. theres only so many times i can try to explain it before giving up. but yes he should have won the premier league, the fa cup at least 3 times and the champions league with everton so you're right, he's shit! so lets go for laudrup who has won the mighty carling cup! and been here for 1 year! and who took over a team where the 2 previous managers set everything in place!

great logic.

anyway

klopp - hope he comes
bosque - what drugs are you on
simeone - why would he leave?
pellegrini - hope he comes
low - wont come/his club record isnt actually that great. he won a cup with dortmund 15 years ago and f all since.

and did you just google the european league tables and take a punt on backing a few managers in each league? :lol: i mean have you actually seen simeone for example? id trust maccy's judgement if i were debating with him cause he has a serious interest in la liga but i rarely see you taking an interest so im not sure how you're making all these judgements.

There is no need to explain because I get your argument but you keep failing to understand that there are clubs just as small as Everton working on restrained budgets that manage to pull punch above their weight and win trophies. I’ve always said the English mid table teams are pretty poor when you compare them to the Spanish teams like Sevilla and Athletico. There aren’t many English clubs that win the Europa league or put on a performance. Everton have qualified for the comp on a number of occasions and have never done well.

I don’t watch every league but have seen enough league/international, champs league and Europa league games to see when a team can play ball but my knowledge is limited and I’m pretty sure other posters can add their piece with other suggestions. With so many other strong teams out there I’ve got to ask why Moyes and is it just because you mainly watch English football? Isn’t it a concern that he’s never won a domestic trophy or had a good run in Europe when pitted against equal teams?

[Kano]

tbf out of the 20 cup finals between 2002 and 2012, only 3 teams outside of the big guns have won them. they're pretty sewn up affairs mostly.

[Power n Glory]

villa just wasted money and created their own problems. they were top 5, spending shedloads and then fucked it all up. everton stay top 7, no lower and fulham hit top ten, mid table on a lot less money than Stoke have spent - they got to a euro final ffs! Sunderland have thrown a lot of money at things too but changed managers too often. bolton achieved better when with a fixed manager, like stoke have now. newcastle? well, they're just a joke, we all know that. Stoke? A healthy amount of cash, stable crowds and the same manager. No excuse for the same old shit.

No one is expecting them to have achieved it by now but to be making steps towards that. and they're not. which is why even stoke fans are getting tired of it.

anyway, this isn't wearestoke****s.com so that's enough of that on this.

they are also orcish ****s, so that is enough to prove my point.

They’re still pretty new to the Prem in comparison to other teams. Fulham have been around in the league a lot longer, since 2001, over 10 years. They were outside of the top 10 for years before having that good run with Roy in the Europa League. The Stoke fans maybe pissed and Pulis doesn’t play pretty football but when you look around the league, some big clubs have gone down and struggled to make it back. In the 5/6 years Stoke have been in the league, I wouldn’t expect them to make swooping changes over night. There are many teams that come up and go back down quickly.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Can we end this back and forth squabble by saying we don't want Moyes as Lord Goon's replacement.

He's won fuck all for 11 consecutive seasons, a feat Wenger is fast emulating.

Swopping a winner turned loser for a life long loser would be bloody scandalous.

No fucking thanks.

[Power n Glory]

Can we end this back and forth squabble by saying we don't want Moyes as Lord Goon's replacement.

He's won fuck all for 11 consecutive seasons, a feat Wenger is fast emulating.

Swopping a winner turned loser for a life long loser would be bloody scandalous.

No fucking thanks.

:lol:

:gp:

[Kano]

They’re still pretty new to the Prem in comparison to other teams. Fulham have been around in the league a lot longer, since 2001, over 10 years. They were outside of the top 10 for years before having that good run with Roy in the Europa League. The Stoke fans maybe pissed and Pulis doesn’t play pretty football but when you look around the league, some big clubs have gone down and struggled to make it back. In the 5/6 years Stoke have been in the league, I wouldn’t expect them to make swooping changes over night. There are many teams that come up and go back down quickly.
pretty football argument isn't on the table, that's a lazy go to answer. no one is expecting sweeping changes overnight. all the things i've written in the posts you've supposedly read.

the more i write about stoke, the dirtier I feel. fuck this.

plus, stoke are ****s.

[Kano]

Can we end this back and forth squabble by saying we don't want Moyes as Lord Goon's replacement.

He's won fuck all for 11 consecutive seasons, a feat Wenger is fast emulating.

Swopping a winner turned loser for a life long loser would be bloody scandalous.

No fucking thanks.
if wenger left this summer, moyes would be in the frame. absolutely guaranteed.

[Power n Glory]

pretty football argument isn't on the table, that's a lazy go to answer. no one is expecting sweeping changes overnight. all the things i've written in the posts you've supposedly read.

the more i write about stoke, the dirtier I feel. fuck this.

plus, stoke are ****s.

I'd be more inclined to argue that they could play a prettier and more technical game or that's what they should aspire to. I can't see how they'd expect to rise so quickly in the ranks or win honours when so many other well established teams haven't managed to.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

pretty football argument isn't on the table, that's a lazy go to answer. no one is expecting sweeping changes overnight. all the things i've written in the posts you've supposedly read.

the more i write about stoke, the dirtier I feel. fuck this.

plus, stoke are ****s.

Took you long enough to realise the toxic effects of going on about those obnoxious inbred ****s.

Hope this is well and truly the cessation of any mention of those vermins on here unless they are an upcoming fixture and we're rightly dogging those orc bastards.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

if wenger left this summer, moyes would be in the frame. absolutely guaranteed.

You are really in a mean mood today, right.

Fuck's up with these cringeworthy posts?

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

There is no need to explain because I get your argument but you keep failing to understand that there are clubs just as small as Everton working on restrained budgets that manage to pull punch above their weight and win trophies. I’ve always said the English mid table teams are pretty poor when you compare them to the Spanish teams like Sevilla and Athletico. There aren’t many English clubs that win the Europa league or put on a performance. Everton have qualified for the comp on a number of occasions and have never done well.

I don’t watch every league but have seen enough league/international, champs league and Europa league games to see when a team can play ball but my knowledge is limited and I’m pretty sure other posters can add their piece with other suggestions. With so many other strong teams out there I’ve got to ask why Moyes and is it just because you mainly watch English football? Isn’t it a concern that he’s never won a domestic trophy or had a good run in Europe when pitted against equal teams?

can you name me a couple of clubs "just as small as everton who are on a restrained budget yet manage to pull above their weight and win trophies" then? and by that i mean win trophies and stay consistent, not get relegated 6 months later. cause once again, im finding it hard to think of many. i think its just a fantasised statement to back your argument up; a pipeline dream rebelling the actualities of football. which teams have exactly pushed on from being a load of crap, which everton admittedly were, to winning trophies and being decent? even we cant be classified as being in that category cause we were successful and a big club before wenger was here.

moyes isnt my first choice, i think everyone knows its always been klopp but i just find it bizarre you disregard him and seem to belittle his achievements when logic suggests he's a perfectly able manager to take over the helm from wenger. i guess im sticking up for moyes because i think he's a realistic candidate more than anything. in our discussions we've got to remain level headed, we wont be going for anyone flashy or someone outspoken, we wont be going for anyone who defies the boards culture and we wont be going for someone who is elite. i think we all know that. i want klopp here but when i take a step back, deep down i know it probably wont happen. i post it in threads as an attempt to have a dig at wenger but its just a dream; with every season that passes his stock is getting higher and the board will go for a complete tangent as usual.

so when you look at the next tier of managers available i think moyes is a pretty credible candidate, and the reasons why was explained in our early interactions. is it a concern he's never won a trophy? of course. but it was a concern when i picked up the paper on the morning of the 30th september 1996 and saw someone called 'arsene wenger' taking charge of my football club! someone who id never heard of before! look how that turned out.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

pretty football argument isn't on the table, that's a lazy go to answer. no one is expecting sweeping changes overnight. all the things i've written in the posts you've supposedly read.

the more i write about stoke, the dirtier I feel. fuck this.

plus, stoke are ****s.

how is the word c*nt banned on here but stoke is freely allowed? :haha:

letters :doh:

[Power n Glory]

can you name me a couple of clubs "just as small as everton who are on a restrained budget yet manage to pull above their weight and win trophies" then? and by that i mean win trophies and stay consistent, not get relegated 6 months later. cause once again, im finding it hard to think of many. i think its just a fantasised statement to back your argument up; a pipeline dream rebelling the actualities of football. which teams have exactly pushed on from being a load of crap, which everton admittedly were, to winning trophies and being decent? even we cant be classified as being in that category cause we were successful and a big club before wenger was here.

moyes isnt my first choice, i think everyone knows its always been klopp but i just find it bizarre you disregard him and seem to belittle his achievements when logic suggests he's a perfectly able manager to take over the helm from wenger. i guess im sticking up for moyes because i think he's a realistic candidate more than anything. in our discussions we've got to remain level headed, we wont be going for anyone flashy or someone outspoken, we wont be going for anyone who defies the boards culture and we wont be going for someone who is elite. i think we all know that. i want klopp here but when i take a step back, deep down i know it probably wont happen. i post it in threads as an attempt to have a dig at wenger but its just a dream; with every season that passes his stock is getting higher and the board will go for a complete tangent as usual.

so when you look at the next tier of managers available i think moyes is a pretty credible candidate, and the reasons why was explained in our early interactions. is it a concern he's never won a trophy? of course. but it was a concern when i picked up the paper on the morning of the 30th september 1996 and saw someone called 'arsene wenger' taking charge of my football club! someone who id never heard of before! look how that turned out.

This is getting old. Napoli, Athetico, Sevilla, Valencia, are Shakhtar Donetsk minted? No idea if these guys are as poor as Everton or just badly run but Moyes isn't a step up. 11 consequtive seasons as Boring just said.

[Kano]

I'd be more inclined to argue that they could play a prettier and more technical game or that's what they should aspire to. I can't see how they'd expect to rise so quickly in the ranks or win honours when so many other well established teams haven't managed to.
your biggest failing on here is that you never read peoples posts properly. you flick read, then fire into a response. just a general point.

no need to reply about stoke as i'm done talking those fucks.

[Power n Glory]

You always have to take a pot shot. It's petty, dude. :lol:

[Kano]

that really was an accurate point. i've seen others state the same. several times i've debated with you and it gets pointless eventually because you don't actually read in the points made and respond to them - you just fall back into generic points that are nothing to do with what has been said. See 'pretty football' and 'winning trophies' today.

it's up to you if you take it on board, i'm just pointing it out.

[Power n Glory]

that really was an accurate point. i've seen others state the same. several times i've debated with you and it gets pointless eventually because you don't actually read in the points made and respond to them - you just fall back into generic points that are nothing to do with what has been said. See 'pretty football' and 'winning trophies' today.

it's up to you if you take it on board, i'm just pointing it out.

Then maybe you need to be more clear on what your saying and I'll try to do the same. I've read back your posts in case I've missed something and it's not making sense to me.

So should Stoke be in higher league position because of the money they spend and years in the Prem? As said, there are well established teams in the league like Fulham, as you pointed out, who have only just about broken into the top 10 on a few occasions and they've been in the Prem since 2001. How much Stoke have spent recently can't really be compared to what Fulham would have spent in the years to stay in the Prem because the market has changed. I would say they've done well to stay in the Prem and establish themselves as a Prem team when so many others have gone done.

But I would argue that they should be trying to move away from the long ball game and play prettier more technical football. It's not too far of a stretch of what you said to Zimm if I'm not mistaken so I don't know why there is a huge disagreement over this. But to play a more technical game would probably require a change in management and money to be spent and that's risky business as many teams like Blackburn and Bolton have taken such risks and it's cost them their Premier League place. Then you have clubs like Portsmouth and Middlesbrough to think about who have disappeared from the Prem.

That may clear things up a bit. If you compare Stoke City to the clubs around them, they're doing okay to stay stable but how they push on, I have no idea because many with longer established histories and deeper pockets and messed up badly in the past.

[Özim]

if wenger left this summer, moyes would be in the frame. absolutely guaranteed.
I really hope not, I couldn't go through another 10 years of the same sh*t, he's a decent manager but that's it......the parallels with Wenger are uncanny in the last 8 years or so.

I'd like to see a forward thinking, ambitious manager, not scared to sign big names if they become available and it makes sense to go in for them, someone who is tactically sound and recognises the need for substitutions and someone who see's a problem and tries to solve it at least.

[Cripps_orig]

Wtf is it with all this Moyes talk recently?

On here, talksport won't shut about him and Everton today. They have hardly talked about Reading manager being sacked

[Marc Overmars]

Moyes has never really been under the spotlight and after the shocker against Wigan it seems like the fans and media are now starting to ask serious questions. If you produce the same thing every season with no improvement, every set of fans will grow restless.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

care to explain what they are?

Well Power_n_Glory has done a pretty good job of explaining my doubts about Moyes.


1) I don't think he places enough attacking emphasis - obviously he's no Allardyce or Pulis but you if we want to go back to the top our attack has to be a lot stronger whilst our defence is not compromised.
2) He doesn't have the same level of contacts and influence around the footballing world that Wenger has hence harder to attract players
3) He isn't as good at developing younger players
etc etc

Like Wenger he's done well with his resources at his disposal but Everton appear not to be capable of progressing to the next level. Granted he doesn't have the same level of finance available to him, but like Wenger's teams the same constant unanswered issues always remain.

I agree with GB though. I'd much rather take a Liverpool style risk on a young exciting manager who could be here for the long term and really get us back to our glory days than go for a safe choice like Moyes.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/197189.html?CMP=OTC-RSS

Reasonable arguments from GG.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Speculation from one of the papers today (I think it was one of the broadsheets) about Jogi Löw being targeted should a) Wenger leave after the end of his contract and b) Jogi steps down from Germany in 2014.

Actually a rumour that makes quite a bit of sense.

[Marc Overmars]

Germans. :bow:

Sign him up.

[Cripps_orig]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/article?contentId=3915778

He's our next manager

[milla]

Germans. :bow:

Sign him up.

Shebby Singh please :coffee:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

if martinez wins the carling cup next month he can take over from wenger cause he won a tin pot trophy and players like podolski will look up to him

:PnG:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

if martinez wins the carling cup next month he can take over from wenger cause he won a tin pot trophy and players like podolski will look up to him

:PnG:

FA Cup.

[Joker]

Reckon Wenger will recommend Dragan Stojković and the board will probably hire him.

[Power n Glory]

if martinez wins the carling cup next month he can take over from wenger cause he won a tin pot trophy and players like podolski will look up to him

:PnG:

:lol: Don't come at me with your side swipes. You saw that negative approach Moyes adopted when playing us when he should be going full swing to get all three points. Was looking at his stats against the big clubs I don't think he's ever gone to any of their grounds and taken all 3 points.

When looking for a player we want someone that's has a good tracker record and experience of delivering on the big stage. Moyes doesn't fit the bill and hasn't even won silverware. Fuck no would I suggest we get rid of Wenger to bring him in. I'd rather stick with Wenger.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Reckon Wenger will recommend Dragan Stojković and the board will probably hire him.

That is probably the most likely scenario. Not neccesarily a bad thing if he is Wengbot 1.0 1996-2005 version.

[Marc Overmars]

That is probably the most likely scenario. Not neccesarily a bad thing if he is Wengbot 1.0 1996-2005 version.

That version has been discontinued and is no longer provided with support and updates.

[Master Splinter]

WengBOT 1.0 is not compatible with Premier League 3.0.

Reboot system and look for newer version?

Or continue with outdaded functionality?

[Dennis Bendtner]

Sorry we can't be having someone eating bogies in our luxury dugout.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:lol: Don't come at me with your side swipes. You saw that negative approach Moyes adopted when playing us when he should be going full swing to get all three points. Was looking at his stats against the big clubs I don't think he's ever gone to any of their grounds and taken all 3 points.

When looking for a player we want someone that's has a good tracker record and experience of delivering on the big stage. Moyes doesn't fit the bill and hasn't even won silverware. Fuck no would I suggest we get rid of Wenger to bring him in. I'd rather stick with Wenger.

:haha:

sure, swipe aside moyes who has consistently delivered top 7 but give martinez a chance if he wins the fa cup, who is a relegation battling manager and at one of the worst clubs in the league. logic :haha:

[Power n Glory]

You bloody well know Martinez isn't the sort of manager I'm talking about. Have some common sense.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

:haha: @ folks who fancy Moyes as Wenger's replacement.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

WengBOT 1.0 is not compatible with Premier League 3.0.

Reboot system and look for newer version?

Or continue with outdaded functionality?

Have you tried restarting the computer?

Send error report.

[Niall_Quinn]

WengBOT 1.0 is not compatible with Premier League 3.0.

Reboot system and look for newer version?

Or continue with outdaded functionality?

Refinance existing system and wait for everyone else to downgrade.

[Cripps_orig]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/article?contentId=3922891

Future Arsenal manager tbh

[Power n Glory]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/article?contentId=3922891

Future Arsenal manager tbh

That pisses me off even more. He was a good captain and besides losing his influence on the pitch, we lost it behind in the dressing room and in training.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

if he wins the carling cup he can take over at arsenal one day.

[Power n Glory]

if he wins the carling cup he can take over at arsenal one day.

Quit stalking me, dude. Get over it. :lol:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:lol: stalk.

awful walk.

[Tipsychubbs]

For years we've had an emphasis on tippy-tappy and a glaring absence of hard defensive teamwork of the ball, which includes positional discipline, covering spaces, timing when to press and more elements from front to back and other tactics.

Can we persuade Heynckes not to retire please? This is what i want from the next manager:

"You have got to analyse the other team and I did that," said Heynckes. "How do they play? What is their style? Where do they move? You have got to have something to hold against that and I did that.

"I had a powerpoint presentation to show the different ways Barcelona work and move. My team was very tactically disciplined."

[IBK]

For years we've had an emphasis on tippy-tappy and a glaring absence of hard defensive teamwork of the ball positional discipline, covering spaces, timing when to press and more elements from front to back and other tactics.

Can we persuade Heynckes not to retire please? This is what i want from the next manager:

"You have got to analyse the other team and I did that," said Heynckes. "How do they play? What is their style? Where do they move? You have got to have something to hold against that and I did that.

"I had a powerpoint presentation to show the different ways Barcelona work and move. My team was very tactically disciplined."

You raise an interesting question. Has Barca style football had its day? Barca are walking the Spanish league, yes, but the dearth of competition in La Liga means that this isn't quite the achievement it might be - and they still have the world's best player, who can win games on his own when fully fit.

But other decent teams now seem to have worked Barca out - and Bayern showed that with efficiency, work ethic and tactical discipline you can hurt them badly.

German style football does seem to be the way forward...which bodes badly for Wenger's Arsenal.

[Özim]

Barca's style of football only really worked due to the exceptional players they had, it had been illustrated a number of times though that with the right tactics and style you could nullify them, Chelsea showed this a few times, restricting them to a handful of chances.

I think it's foolish to adapt their to style of play, it's too one dimensional and too technical and relies on exceptionally accurate passing and movement. Teams are starting to realise how you need to pay against them more and more now and so despite their ability it's not so easy for them.

Pacey football is not only more exciting but generally also more devastating, especially if you can revert to a plan B tactic when things aren't quite going to plan. Barca have no plan B, if their style doesn't work they have no alternative.

[IBK]

Barca's style of football only really worked due to the exceptional players they had, it had been illustrated a number of times though that with the right tactics and style you could nullify them, Chelsea showed this a few times, restricting them to a handful of chances.

I think it's foolish to adapt their to style of play, it's too one dimensional and too technical and relies on exceptionally accurate passing and movement. Teams are starting to realise how you need to pay against them more and more now and so despite their ability it's not so easy for them.

Pacey football is not only more exciting but generally also more devastating, especially if you can revert to a plan B tactic when things aren't quite going to plan. Barca have no plan B, if their style doesn't work they have no alternative.

Now where have I seen that before?

Side question - Fabregas at Barca - success or not?

[Kano]

Barca's style of football only really worked due to the exceptional players they had, it had been illustrated a number of times though that with the right tactics and style you could nullify them, Chelsea showed this a few times, restricting them to a handful of chances.

I think it's foolish to adapt their to style of play, it's too one dimensional and too technical and relies on exceptionally accurate passing and movement. Teams are starting to realise how you need to pay against them more and more now and so despite their ability it's not so easy for them.

Pacey football is not only more exciting but generally also more devastating, especially if you can revert to a plan B tactic when things aren't quite going to plan. Barca have no plan B, if their style doesn't work they have no alternative.
they haven't needed to find an alternative due to how overwhelming effective it has been. throw in a world cup and and two euro's to boot. of course, no style can dominate forever, so it may have run it's course for now. but at the height of their domination, the ultra defensive approach only worked on a handful of occasions.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't think the style of play has had it's had it's day but opponents now have become more adept at dealing with them. PSG more than held their own in the last round and AC were solid for half the tie at least. They even struggled to polish off Celtic in the group stages.

Bayern have a lot of physical strength (most of those fuckers are 6ft+ tanks) but they also happen to be technically sound as well.

Barca are a team of Hleb's, players who gain more satisfaction from great build-up rather than being selfish enough to take chances on themselves. If Messi is not on it they are just as vulnerable as everyone else because they don't have another way to play.

[Tipsychubbs]

The speed of the counters really worked as well as the off ball work ethic, and bits of delayed possession, intricate passing patterns, intelligent movement/runs, and bits of fast wingplay and crossing. Thats the way forward, a well rounded amalgamation of styles, an unpredictable, tactical manager who can vary things.

[Özim]

Now where have I seen that before?

Side question - Fabregas at Barca - success or not?
Not really had the chance to shine IMO, until he becomes a regular you'd have to say he hasn't been a great success.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Now where have I seen that before?

Side question - Fabregas at Barca - success or not?

Easy to answer this one, definitely not. And I think probably won't ever be either.

Song is a complete no brainer too.

[IBK]

Easy to answer this one, definitely not. And I think probably won't ever be either.

Song is a complete no brainer too.

Aye - I think he may have caught a downward curve. Song fucked up, big time.

[milla]

I don't think the style of play has had it's had it's day but opponents now have become more adept at dealing with them. PSG more than held their own in the last round and AC were solid for half the tie at least. They even struggled to polish off Celtic in the group stages.

Bayern have a lot of physical strength (most of those fuckers are 6ft+ tanks) but they also happen to be technically sound as well.

Barca are a team of Hleb's, players who gain more satisfaction from great build-up rather than being selfish enough to take chances on themselves. If Messi is not on it they are just as vulnerable as everyone else because they don't have another way to play.

I think Barca will solve this by signing a strong CF next season. Cavani, Llorente or Falcao would give Barca an easy fix IMO. :coffee:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

one of the newspaper boys ran a story saying Low was being touted by the board as wengers replacement after the WC next year.

what do people think?

won a couple of titles in austria almost a decade ago. most notable trophy was the equivalent of the FA cup 16 years ago with hamburg. nothing else.

suppose the fact he won a tin pot trophy in austria makes him the perfect candidate :PnG:

not sure really.

[selassie]

Not knee jerk, seriously we should do everything in our power to get Klopp. That's how you "build" a team on the cheap via a mixture of signings and bringing through talented homegrown players. They play SUPERB football too.

Klopp just develops gem after gem, the funny thing is whilst they will lose some of their stars this summer they have a few gems waiting to break through.

Klopp is like the Wenger of old.

[Kano]

Not knee jerk, seriously we should do everything in our power to get Klopp. That's how you "build" a team on the cheap via a mixture of signings and bringing through talented homegrown players. They play SUPERB football too.

Klopp just develops gem after gem, the funny thing is whilst they will lose some of their stars this summer they have a few gems waiting to break through.

Klopp is like the Wenger of old.

sounds great on paper doesn't it? but think of it in reality. why on god's earth would he step away from dortmund, to come to us right now? that club is doing everything we should be, 100 times better. sound financials, great tactician, motivated players all topped off with success. last season they lost kagawa and got in ruess. heard rumours they will be after eriksen from ajax so it looks like they'll carry on as they are for now.

[Power n Glory]

one of the newspaper boys ran a story saying Low was being touted by the board as wengers replacement after the WC next year.

what do people think?

won a couple of titles in austria almost a decade ago. most notable trophy was the equivalent of the FA cup 16 years ago with hamburg. nothing else.

suppose the fact he won a tin pot trophy in austria makes him the perfect candidate :PnG:

not sure really.

Are you still having sleepless nights over the Moyes debate? That was like over a month ago. :lol:

David Moyes…really? That’s your candidate. We should boot Wenger out just because this guy knows how to handle a budget but you’re bitching at me because I want someone that has experience of winning trophies, experience of playing in big competitions and with big players but also plays attacking football. :doh:

[Power n Glory]

sounds great on paper doesn't it? but think of it in reality. why on god's earth would he step away from dortmund, to come to us right now? that club is doing everything we should be, 100 times better. sound financials, great tactician, motivated players all topped off with success. last season they lost kagawa and got in ruess. heard rumours they will be after eriksen from ajax so it looks like they'll carry on as they are for now.

We'd have to throw serious money at him. Works on most footballers. :lol:

But you're right. It wouldn't make sense for him to leave.

[cheesy bites]

In one way, which I really would feel bad about, if Dortmund gets gutted by Bayern and the rest, maybe Klopp will want a change at the end of next year if he can't rebuild a top tier team again?

All I know is, Klopp is the hottest managerial commodity at the moment, and he has to be #1 on our list.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Are you still having sleepless nights over the Moyes debate? That was like over a month ago. :lol:

David Moyes…really? That’s your candidate. We should boot Wenger out just because this guy knows how to handle a budget but you’re bitching at me because I want someone that has experience of winning trophies, experience of playing in big competitions and with big players but also plays attacking football. :doh:

:lol: trophies? he won some tin pot trophies in austria a decade ago and the german fa cup nearly two decades back.

you want wenger out for not delivering for a decade but want a guy in who last won a trophy even further back :haha:

[Power n Glory]

:lol: trophies? he won some tin pot trophies in austria a decade ago and the german fa cup nearly two decades back.

you want wenger out for not delivering for a decade but want a guy in who last won a trophy even further back :haha:

Are you retarded. David fucking Moyes? What has he won?

If you’re going to go on about Low then take a good look at your candidate. If you have reservations against the German coach then you should surely understand my reservations over a coach who has achieved far less. Now grow up and get over it.

[Kano]

All I know is, Klopp is the hottest managerial commodity at the moment, and he has to be #1 on our list.
you do also know that will make him nowhere near the top of our list?

[Marc Overmars]

you do also know that will make him nowhere near the top of our list?

It would probably put him bottom of the list. :lol:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Are you retarded. David fucking Moyes? What has he won?

If you’re going to go on about Low then take a good look at your candidate. If you have reservations against the German coach then you should surely understand my reservations over a coach who has achieved far less. Now grow up and get over it.

you made winning trophies a prerequisite, i never. then you name low, whose last notable trophy was even further back than wengers. top logic. on top of that, what exactly have germany achieved? a couple of semi's and one final? backed by an institution that pumped money left right and centre into the national team for almost a decade, he still has nothing to his name for it. he took over from klinsmann who was the real brains behind the current german footballing revolution. go read up and do your homework.

with that german team he should have won a trophy at least. he hasnt.

[Power n Glory]

you made winning trophies a prerequisite, i never. then you name low, whose last notable trophy was even further back than wengers. top logic. on top of that, what exactly have germany achieved? a couple of semi's and one final? backed by an institution that pumped money left right and centre into the national team for almost a decade, he still has nothing to his name for it. he took over from klinsmann who was the real brains behind the current german footballing revolution. go read up and do your homework.

with that german team he should have won a trophy at least. he hasnt.

Winning trophies was one of the perquisites. European experience and attacking football is another. Semi finals and a World Cup final isn't something to be ashamed about. But let's say Low is the wrong guy for us. How the fuck are you able to come up with such logic and then mention David Moyes as a suitable candidate? :doh:

[Power n Glory]

go read up and do your homework.

Please don't tell me you were up all night looking into this shit. :lol:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Winning trophies was one of the perquisites. European experience and attacking football is another. Semi finals and a World Cup final isn't something to be ashamed about. But let's say Low is the wrong guy for us. How the fuck are you able to come up with such logic and then mention David Moyes as a suitable candidate? :doh:

:lol: so you've gone from 'winning trophies is a must' to 'semi's and finals arent anything to be ashamed of'. backtrack :haha:

we've been through this before. proven PL manager, wonders on a tight budget etc. but yes lets champion Low who has done fuck all for 10 years, at least moyes has been at club level and done well with what he has more recently. we dont have to go 10 years back to see what moyes has done, we can see it through his consistent premier league finishes. Low has underachieved with what he's got and the backing he's had, then again that probably makes him the perfect candidate here.

as for your other post, no it's called having an interest in football and reading biographies, articles, journals etc. stick to what your best at- finding new ways of writing emails to avoid detection by your employers.

[Power n Glory]

:lol: so you've gone from 'winning trophies is a must' to 'semi's and finals arent anything to be ashamed of'. backtrack :haha:

we've been through this before. proven PL manager, wonders on a tight budget etc. but yes lets champion Low who has done fuck all for 10 years, at least moyes has been at club level and done well with what he has more recently. we dont have to go 10 years back to see what moyes has done, we can see it through his consistent premier league finishes. Low has underachieved with what he's got and the backing he's had, then again that probably makes him the perfect candidate here.

as for your other post, no it's called having an interest in football and reading biographies, articles, journals etc. stick to what your best at- finding new ways of writing emails to avoid detection by your employers.

Jesus, you are a proper stalker. How the fuck did you remember me saying that. I said that ages ago. :lol:

Is this Moyes debate bugging you that much? Don’t take it personal. I just don’t think he’s suited to the role and if you feel Low hasn’t done enough, I feel more so about Moyes. He hasn’t worked with big players, can’t beat any of the big clubs, has never won a trophy….if Low is terrible candidate in your eyes then Lord knows what you see in David Moyes.

[Niall_Quinn]

In one way, which I really would feel bad about, if Dortmund gets gutted by Bayern and the rest, maybe Klopp will want a change at the end of next year if he can't rebuild a top tier team again?

All I know is, Klopp is the hottest managerial commodity at the moment, and he has to be #1 on our list.

If he leaves because his team are gutted he'll hardly want to come to the team gutting world record holders.

[GP]

Knife-a goes in
Guts-a come out
That's what Arsenal Football Club Financial Concern Corporation is all about.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Jesus, you are a proper stalker. How the fuck did you remember me saying that. I said that ages ago. :lol:

Is this Moyes debate bugging you that much? Don’t take it personal. I just don’t think he’s suited to the role and if you feel Low hasn’t done enough, I feel more so about Moyes. He hasn’t worked with big players, can’t beat any of the big clubs, has never won a trophy….if Low is terrible candidate in your eyes then Lord knows what you see in David Moyes.

no its called having a memory, do you find it hard to remember what people say? is that why you backtrack and cross-fertilise your thoughts so much? you went from 'the new manager needs to have won trophies so the players look up to him', to 'or at least played in a big tournament or won trophies as a player so our players idolise him' (specifically to court laudrup) to 'semi's and finals are good enough!'. now im not a genius but that smacks of desperation- someone who doesnt know what he wants, someone with a bad, inconsistent logic.

we'll leave this debate for now.

[IBK]

We'd have to throw serious money at him. Works on most footballers. :lol:


But you're right. It wouldn't make sense for him to leave.

Well, Wenger's on £7M. But no - the board won't pay anything like that, or get Wenget's replacement right.

[selassie]

sounds great on paper doesn't it? but think of it in reality. why on god's earth would he step away from dortmund, to come to us right now? that club is doing everything we should be, 100 times better. sound financials, great tactician, motivated players all topped off with success. last season they lost kagawa and got in ruess. heard rumours they will be after eriksen from ajax so it looks like they'll carry on as they are for now.

Yeah I know TT. It's just wishlist material type stuff, besides, I reckon the board will essentially give Arsene the task of choosing his replacement.

Arsene will bring in one of his cronies, saves him having to brainwash about "not needing to spend" and "doing things the right way" :rolleyes:

[Power n Glory]

no its called having a memory, do you find it hard to remember what people say? is that why you backtrack and cross-fertilise your thoughts so much? you went from 'the new manager needs to have won trophies so the players look up to him', to 'or at least played in a big tournament or won trophies as a player so our players idolise him' (specifically to court laudrup) to 'semi's and finals are good enough!'. now im not a genius but that smacks of desperation- someone who doesnt know what he wants, someone with a bad, inconsistent logic.

we'll leave this debate for now.

Have you said anything worth me remembering besides the Moyes gunk? :lol:

Since you're good at doing your research, go back and check the criteria again. There is no back tracking on this you're just being selective. Besides silverware, I also siad we should get someone that can evolve our Total Football philosophy, play an attacking brand of football and command some sort of respect from his players. I don't like Moyes brand of football, he has no experience of managing big egos, doesn't beat the big teams when it comes to the big games....need I go on? His appointment would be a nail in our coffin. It would show zero ambition from the Board.

We'll leave the debate alone but stop bringing up all the time.

[Globalgunner]

The criteria of having won something before is good but not essential. I mean look at Mancini. He has won lots of stuff both here and in Italy but essentially he is a pathetic manager who spends all season rubbing his key players the wrong way. You could also take Rafa as another example. I would actually be ok with him, but the chap has the same problem essentially as Mancini, he needs to spend 50m in each transfer window or he goes on a long sulk. The good managers are there, all mostly less than 50 years old. Or you go with the old wizened stager like the Bayern coach, who has seen it all but is still flexible in his principles. The fist thing you want in a coach is the pure desire to win. Not someone who essentially wants to be left alone to tinker with potions in his laboratory while being paid as well or better than anyone else

[IBK]

The criteria of having won something before is good but not essential. I mean look at Mancini. He has won lots of stuff both here and in Italy but essentially he is a pathetic manager who spends all season rubbing his key players the wrong way. You could also take Rafa as another example. I would actually be ok with him, but the chap has the same problem essentially as Mancini, he needs to spend 50m in each transfer window or he goes on a long sulk. The good managers are there, all mostly less than 50 years old. Or you go with the old wizened stager like the Bayern coach, who has seen it all but is still flexible in his principles. The fist thing you want in a coach is the pure desire to win. Not someone who essentially wants to be left alone to tinker with potions in his laboratory while being paid as well or better than anyone else

Plus performances in different leagues can be deceiving....

[Power n Glory]

It can be, there is no exact science to this. But whenever we’re linked with or have just bought a player, we usually check out his stats like goals and assists each season. If they’re captain, have just won the league or voted as one the league’s best players..etc. The numbers and accolades usually back up the persona but not always. I don’t see why it should be so different for a manger. When we brought in Wenger, he had already won stuff in France, he was able to find good players for cheap and still play attractive football. I don’t want a coach that seems to think you need £150m to play good attacking football but I also want some sort of evidence that his philosophy works.

As for Mancini, I would say he has a very hard job on his hands managing all those egos and keeping them hungry for success. Where Hughes failed with all the millions, Mancini came out on top. That’s the difference he’s made to that squad.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

The criteria of having won something before is good but not essential. I mean look at Mancini. He has won lots of stuff both here and in Italy but essentially he is a pathetic manager who spends all season rubbing his key players the wrong way. You could also take Rafa as another example. I would actually be ok with him, but the chap has the same problem essentially as Mancini, he needs to spend 50m in each transfer window or he goes on a long sulk. The good managers are there, all mostly less than 50 years old. Or you go with the old wizened stager like the Bayern coach, who has seen it all but is still flexible in his principles. The fist thing you want in a coach is the pure desire to win. Not someone who essentially wants to be left alone to tinker with potions in his laboratory while being paid as well or better than anyone else

spot on.

football has evolved, you move with the trend. fergie and wenger are the last of a dying breed, although wenger essentially died a long time ago. the trend is for young, inexperienced but hungry managers; its not just in football but in every industry. young people getting opportunities at a younger age, upsetting the existing equilibrium and showing no fear when faced with experienced pro's. they take their chance. this move towards decentralisation has happened in football too, we dont see managers like fergie/wenger who run the club from top to bottom anymore. we see managers who come in and just manage the squad leaving other things to other people. chairmans hire a director of football etc to deal with all the other crap. notice how di canio is not the sunderland manager but the 'head coach'. we're moving away from a centralised, hierarchical system and one component of that is the trend towards young, enthusiastic managers who come in with fresh ideas.

every manager has to start somewhere. having a tin pot trophy to your name in austria or denmark means fuck all. neither does winning the golden boot in a tournament 20 years ago. if a manager comes in and the players respect him they'll work hard and play for the shirt, regardless of whether a manager has a trophy to his name or not.

[Power n Glory]

Agreed. A manager shouldn't be appointed just because of silverware and he shouldn't be appointed just because he's able to work on a small budget and balance the books. :tiphat:

[Injury Time]

Agreed. A manager shouldn't be appointed just because of silverware and he shouldn't be appointed just because he's able to work on a small budget and balance the books. :tiphat:

LDG ftw ::trophy:

[LDG]

Ok! I'll do it!

[Niall_Quinn]

spot on.

football has evolved, you move with the trend. fergie and wenger are the last of a dying breed, although wenger essentially died a long time ago. the trend is for young, inexperienced but hungry managers; its not just in football but in every industry. young people getting opportunities at a younger age, upsetting the existing equilibrium and showing no fear when faced with experienced pro's. they take their chance. this move towards decentralisation has happened in football too, we dont see managers like fergie/wenger who run the club from top to bottom anymore. we see managers who come in and just manage the squad leaving other things to other people. chairmans hire a director of football etc to deal with all the other crap. notice how di canio is not the sunderland manager but the 'head coach'. we're moving away from a centralised, hierarchical system and one component of that is the trend towards young, enthusiastic managers who come in with fresh ideas.

every manager has to start somewhere. having a tin pot trophy to your name in austria or denmark means fuck all. neither does winning the golden boot in a tournament 20 years ago. if a manager comes in and the players respect him they'll work hard and play for the shirt, regardless of whether a manager has a trophy to his name or not.

Yes, I've noticed how inexperienced kids have completely fucked everything up too.

[Tipsychubbs]

May be a controversial option, but anyone else considering Rafa Benitez?

[selassie]

May be a controversial option, but anyone else considering Rafa Benitez?

:clap:

[Marc Overmars]

We'd be better in Europe for sure.

[Injury Time]

We'd be better in Europe for sure.

Give him a ten year contract and he'll make us into Liverpool :trophy:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Give him a ten year contract and he'll make us into Liverpool :trophy:
Next year would be your year, for sure.

[Injury Time]

Next year would be your year, for sure.

:patrice: quadruple coming home :trophy:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

the journo's on SS made some interesting points for once. reasserts the fact i hope klopp comes here

worked on a tight budget and turned dortmund from a mid table, financially ruined team to one of europe's best

lewandowski's on 20k a week apparently :doh:

how the heck he's managed that i dont know. especially as we have wenger splashing 80k a week on chamakh

if there's a god up there please let this happen.

[Injury Time]

the journo's on SS made some interesting points for once. reasserts the fact i hope klopp comes here

worked on a tight budget and turned dortmund from a mid table, financially ruined team to one of europe's best

lewandowski's on 20k a week apparently :doh:

how the heck he's managed that i dont know. especially as we have wenger splashing 80k a week on chamakh

if there's a god up there please let this happen.
God can't answer right now Satan has Him locked away in a basement at Stamford Bridge :rose:

[KSE Comedy Club]

I vote for Kloppo too.

Guy was fucking hilarious on the CL final build up yesterday :lol:

[bunsco]

Just can't see beyond Klopp - perfect fit for current personnel .basically Wenger but with a good tactical brain

[Cripps_orig]

Ivan Lendl

[Injury Time]

Ivan Lendl

Fuck I was thinking the same thing! :ilt:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

has he done the honourable thing yet?

[Letters]

has he done the honourable thing yet?
And signed the new contract? Not yet.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

And signed the new contract? Not yet.

20 years of glorious CL footie in the making. Top achievement that for a club like ours. What more could fans ask for?

One Arsene Wenger, There's Only One Arsene Wenger. :scarf:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

has he fucked off yet?

[Cripps_orig]

Sol Campbell, 38, could make a shock return to Arsenal as manager one day, according to the retired England defender's agent.
Full story: Metro


.

[Penguin]

:haha: :haha: :haha:

[Özim]

This thread is going to be around a good few years yet, there's talk of a new contract for the guy.

You got to despair, it's like he's never going to leave.

[Cripps_orig]

http://www.arsenal.com/match/report/1314/pre/first-team/nagoya-grampus-v-arsenal-preview


There were even questions in the press conference, from local journalists, as to whether 'Piksi' could one day tread the same path as Wenger did, and leave Grampus Nagoya to become Arsenal manager.
"Well, I have not finished yet!" Wenger responded. "Anyway, it will be the people on the Arsenal board who will decide that, not me."
As for Stojkovic – the man who won the Champions League as a player in 1993 – he was relatively coy, saying only "why not?" before adding with a smile "I think I will have to wait 10 years for the chance

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

genuine question, would anyone take benitez as wenger's replacement?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

No. I'd have him as the part-time coach for European matches though.

[Nayan]

gary megson

[I_Killed_Kenny]

wayne gooney

[Power n Glory]

Has Gus Hiddink found work yet?

[Niall_Quinn]

Has Gus Hiddink found work yet?

Yes, he is a train driver.

[Power n Glory]

:lol:

http://metro.co.uk/2013/12/09/five-things-arsenal-can-learn-from-manchester-uniteds-managerial-mess-4224305/



Five things Arsenal can learn from Manchester United’s managerial mess

Arsenal have a deal on the table for the longest serving manager in the Premier League. Metro reported that it is worth £24m over 3 years. That’s big money.

It hasn’t been signed yet, fueling concern the manager won’t sign it until the end of the season, where, goes the thought, he might not sign at all… if we’ve won the league. He might, ‘pull a Ferguson’, which is striking the fear of god into Arsenal fans around the globe.

… but I say don’t fear. Not every transition has to end in a David Moyes like disaster. You just have to follow a few simple rules.

1. Don’t let the previous manager choose the successor.

Alex Ferguson is widely believed to be the man behind Moyes. You know he must have had a hand in the appointment because no one else in their right mind would have made a decision like that. Being a great manager doesn’t always mean you recognise other great managerial talent. The decision to employ the next manager should be made by people who have worked across the game in the modern era.

It should be made by people who understand the game, but maybe not from being part of the game. David Dein chose Wenger, but he’d never played football. Choosing your own successor reeks of ‘old boys’ club. Give the ex-manager a say… but don’t let it be defacto. It should be a group decision made by people with differing skillsets.

2. If you want to go for inexperience, then have a bloody good reason for doing so.

David Moyes struggled to beat top 4 teams, his clubs have never been revered for playing anything other than brutalist football, and he’d never won a trophy. What was he bringing to the United fold? Moyes isn’t a visionary coach, he’s didn’t have an amazing reputation in the game and he wasn’t a name. How was he every going to be able to win over the players?


3. Don’t rock the damn boat.

United allowed David Moyes to come in and work on his terms. He was allowed to shake up the back room staff. He sent the assistant manager and the head coach packing and he tinkered elsewhere. When the CEO of a successful business leaves, the incoming CEO doesn’t sack all the heads of department. Continuity is just as important in sport. If it ain’t broke, don’t sack it. Bringing in a raft of staff who’ve won precisely zero in a previous role isn’t a recipe for winning over the incumbent players or the fans.

4. Think of the players.

How are the players going to react to the new man. If you are replacing the greatest manager of all time, you need to bring in someone who can win them over with managerial skill and vision, an incredible playing career or an incredible managerial career. David Moyes doesn’t have any of those attributes. For me, United would have been better placed employing Brian Laudraup. At least he has a presence.

5. Plan, plan, plan.

I don’t know the ins and outs of the new appointment, but it all felt a little rushed and ill thought out. It might come good. Moyes can chuck money at the problem and maybe it’ll come good. But right now, their two best players want out (Robin and Rooney) and the rest of the players are failing to play above their skill grade. Moyes can’t win over legacy players. So the question is, do the United board believe he can build a new club and are they willing to back an untrusted manager with £150m to rebuild… after watching him spank £27m on a very bland midfielder who texts during games?

United are in trouble because they didn’t think their managerial choice through. Hopefully Arsenal will learn from the mistakes they’ve made an make sure there’s a very good plan in place should the worst happen next summer and Arsene packs it in for the sweet, sweet days of retirement.

David Moyes!! :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Wood had a good thing going, until he suggested Brian Laudraup. :doh: