Have we fans lost perspective?

[IBK]

Interesting piece from Sabotage Times 5/02/13


http://www.sabotagetimes.com/wp-content/themes/sabotage/images/new/avatar.jpg (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/author/christopher-akinrele)http://www.sabotagetimes.com/wp-content/themes/sabotage/images/ico-bomb.png (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/author/christopher-akinrele)Saboteur: (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/author/christopher-akinrele)Christopher Akinrele (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/author/christopher-akinrele)Read more from me... (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/author/christopher-akinrele)



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Arsenal Fans Need To Accept They Are The Biggest Problem With The Club (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football/arsenal-fans-need-to-accept-they-are-the-biggest-problem-with-the-club)by Christopher Akinrele (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/author/christopher-akinrele)
5 February 2013


Booing, murmurs of discontent, dissatisfied grumbling: it's been close to eight years since Arsenal once won a trophy and that won't change unless the fans do.

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/wp-content/uploads/Arsenal-Fans4-480x391.jpg
In May it will be eight years since Arsenal Football Club (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football/football-sport/arsenal-is-wengers-greatest-strength-also-his-greatest-flaw/) won a major trophy (the Emirates Cup does not count). The club is currently under the stewardship of a board of directors so reactionary, rumour has it that, at present, they are No.3 in Boko Haram’s top ten list of “Inspirational Examples of Conservative Leadership In a Modern Institution”. These are testing times for Arsenal fans.
Stirrings of discontent characterised by rather polite upper middle class booing at the Emirates and a slightly more vociferous offering at away fixtures have been proferred in response to sloppily conceded goals and inconsistent performances. It seems that the patience of supporters previously satisfied by stadium debt repayment, the “trophy” that is Champions League football and a healthy bottom line has finally reached its limit.
No doubt helped on its way by the perceived failure to hold on to established stars in recent seasons. And who can blame them? Rising ticket prices, no trophies and obvious flaws with the team are enough to provoke the ire of any fan base, right? Wrong. It is time for Arsenal fans to look into the mirror (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/reportage/charlie-brookers-black-mirror-series-two-how-do-you-top-shagging-a-pig/).
Man for man, the Arsenal starting XI is the equal of any team in the Premier League. Depending on the weather and whether you prefer your Spanish playmakers clean shaven or slightly more grizzled, on current form a combined XI of Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea and Arsenal’s best players would probably see three players make that list (Jack Wilshere, Theo Walcott and Kieran Gibbs in case you were wondering).
To those who question player recruitment and retention policy, yes Samir Nasri and Gael Clichy have won the league with Manchester City but it would be unduly generous to describe either of those players as integral to such success. In any case, in the form of Kieran Gibbs and Santi Cazorla (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football/football-sport/santi-carzola-the-new-robert-pires-capable-of-conquering-england/) Arsenal have found themselves replacements of at least equal quality.

More…
Gervinho: The Best Striker In AFCON, Still Not Good Enough For Arsenal (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football/gervinho-the-best-striker-in-afcon-still-not-good-enough-for-arsenal/)
Arsenal Fans In State Of Non-Shock As Shawcross Strikes Again (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football/arsenal-fans-in-state-of-non-shock-as-ryan-shawcross-strikes-again/)
The sale of Robin van Persie has unquestionably strengthened a rival but transfers to rivals constantly happen in football – Luis Figo from Barcelona to Real Madrid or, on a slightly more mundane scale, Daniel Sturridge from Chelsea to Liverpool (Liverpool are going to finish above Chelsea this season by the way, you heard it here first) – and his goals have been replaced by Lukas Podolski, Olivier Giroud and Theo Walcott.
The transfer of Cesc Fabregas (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football/football-sport/ex-arsenal-skipper-fabregas-and-the-brazil-1970-spain-2012-mash-up-xl/) to Barcelona can be equated to Cristiano Ronaldo’s move to Real Madrid from Manchester United (it’s safe to say that no one accuses United of being a selling club) and the less said about Alex Song the better. No Alex, you are not Socrates reincarnate, defending isn’t a lifestyle choice for defensive midfielders and this is me definitely not laughing at your complete lack of impact at Barcelona.
Faced with the ownership structures of Manchester City and Chelsea the Arsenal board of directors found themselves with a stark choice. Incur massive debt on transient ever depreciating assets or accept that at this moment in time Arsenal simply cannot compete in terms of transfer fees and rely on the continued brilliance of a manager that has secured Champions League football 15(!) years in a row and created a culture within the club that will endure not just for this cycles’ Arsenal side but for generations to come.
Dissatisfied grumbling, booing and complaints simply reflects a failure to appreciate what Arsenal football club is today – a stable institution that has a culture in place with the potential to create lasting success in much the same model that Barcelona have done in Spain – and the, albeit less shiny and infinitely more ethereal achievements of the club. You may not be able to polish a footballing culture or stability but such foundations but they will be around long after the sheen has faded from the replica trophies sitting in Chelsea’s (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football/football-sport/gary-cahill-the-perfect-candidate-to-be-chelseas-next-captain/) cabinet and Roman Abramovich’s super yacht.

Granted, no amount of positive support is going to endow Andre Santos with the ability to defend or Gervinho with the composure to deliver a killer pass or shot but it will take the pressure off an undoubtedly talented group of young players which in turn will make the end of that trophy drought sooner rather than later.

[Marc Overmars]

The first half is about our on-paper credentials, which means nothing.

The second part is about acceptance. All fans are different but to me I always expect to see improvement and we don't get that, that's where the seed of discontent lies. Even Stoke fans want more now after 4 years of consolidation and there's nothing wrong with that. The burden of expectation and hope is something the club should embrace but it feels like we don't really have the stomach for it, which is a shame.

[Xhaka Can’t]

While I agree we have lost perspective, that is a poor article. Some fans have become serial bedwetters and this manifests itself here on GW with all the pathetic posts along the lines of, 'we should win, but we have Wenger', and the almost apparent glee with which some now embrace setbacks.

What our main problem is as I see it, is a failure by the Club to be bold and make full use of the resources we generate. Until that happens, we are going to see repitition of the same failings which already feel like they have gone on ad infinitum and that will lead to more dissatisfaction expressed.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yep, how much did the last batch of shareholders make from the sell out? That's what you call success and that's the function of Arsenal football club and has been for (coincidentally of course) the period where the trophy cabinet has been bare. Why do these articles never flip the coin over and examine the other side? We look in the mirror and see a broke bloke who has spent a fortune for a deteriorating product. The shareholders look in the mirror and I'm sure there's a beaming smile coming back at them. Millions in the bank for non-performance. Must be the same mirror bankers and politicians use.

[Özim]

I hate the argument of "15 years of Champions League football", what kind of achievement is that when you don't have to really achieve anything of note to qualify?

I just wish they took the places away for at least 2 of the 4 teams and then see how often we'd qualify, at least that way you'd have to be close to the Champions to qualify, as it is you can't be 20+ points away and still get a free pass into the competition.

If we had to win something to qualify, we'd have a much better chance in it, the fact we don't means we can potter along qualifying every season and getting knocked out when we meet a decent team. There's no enjoyment in being also rans and qualifying for what is Europe's Premiere competition.

As for the comparison with Barcelona, that's a pipedream and total BS, Barca have always spent on bringing in top talent and have never settled for 2nd place, it's never been good enough for them.

We've got no hope of emulating that model, we don't invest enough and just don't get the quality of players they do, either through transfers or through the youth scheme.

[-Xs-]

Booing, murmurs of discontent, dissatisfied grumbling: it's been close to eight years since Arsenal once won a trophy and that won't change unless the fans do.

Yep. It's all the fans fault we haven't won anything in years, nothing to do with selling all our stars or our inability to defend :rolleyes:

[Kano]

good to see someone starting a thread this week but that article is bullshit, no offence.

in fact, it is amazing how no-one seems to have an idea about where the discontent with arsenal fans lay at the moment. the usual 'well you get cl football and my club would die to be where you are' shite is always thrown up alongside, 'you can't expect to spend like city and co'.

the sense that we are not doing everything possible with what we have at our disposal is frustrating the life out of a lot of fans season on season - that is what 'outsiders' need to understand.

although a sense of perspective can always be found i guess. commentators drone on and fucking on about 7 years blah blah with nothing else to say bar that, yet i would still rather be where we are than a club like tottenham who have won 2 in 20 years.

[IBK]

Yep. It's all the fans fault we haven't won anything in years, nothing to do with selling all our stars or our inability to defend :rolleyes:

So you don't think that for whatever reason Gooners are not getting behind our club these days?

[Injury Time]

It's terrible fans are expecting the club to deliver the repeated promises made to them relating to the benefits of the move from Highbury. As already said they have maximised their personal return off the pitch; on the pitch we have been left with a squad that has been asset stripped, and perhaps as a fan the worst of all, players that seem to accept that 4th is the only goal that matters.

The writer needs to look in his mirror and tell himself to fuck off.

[IBK]

good to see someone starting a thread this week but that article is bullshit, no offence.

in fact, it is amazing how no-one seems to have an idea about where the discontent with arsenal fans lay at the moment. the usual 'well you get cl football and my club would die to be where you are' shite is always thrown up alongside, 'you can't expect to spend like city and co'.

the sense that we are not doing everything possible with what we have at our disposal is frustrating the life out of a lot of fans season on season - that is what 'outsiders' need to understand.

although a sense of perspective can always be found i guess. commentators drone on and fucking on about 7 years blah blah with nothing else to say bar that, yet i would still rather be where we are than a club like tottenham who have won 2 in 20 years.

FWIW I didn't think it was a strong article, but it was an excuse to step back. I agree 100% with your point that frustration is driving our discontent (and its as much frustration at not understanding why our club is behaving as it does as much as anything else), but perspecive is still needed.

[Injury Time]

FWIW I didn't think it was a strong article, but it was an excuse to step back. I agree 100% with your point that frustration is driving our discontent (and its as much frustration at not understanding why our club is behaving as it does as much as anything else), but perspecive is still needed.
Perspecive ftw. We know why they act the way they do, maximising ROI, simples.

[Globalgunner]

Fans have not lost perspective. Rather it is the club that has lost perspective on what its core reason for existence is: The relentless pursuit of trophies....to borrow a famous corporate slogan. In Kroenke ans Wenger we have the worst unholy combo of owner and manager. One who doesnt care about winning and the other who only wants to win on his own terms. We have the means to do so much better and are greatly underachieving, given the resources we essentially fritter away season in and out. fans are only after one thing and that is that their team do the absolute best they can each season and do not repeat constantly the mistakes of previous seasons. Not much to ask you would think given the increased cost of watching the same fare each year.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Fans have not lost perspective. Rather it is the club that has lost perspective on what its core reason for existence is: The relentless pursuit of trophies....to borrow a famous corporate slogan. In Kroenke ans Wenger we have the worst unholy combo of owner and manager. One who doesnt care about winning and the other who only wants to win on his own terms. We have the means to do so much better and are greatly underachieving, given the resources we essentially fritter away season in and out. fans are only after one thing and that is that their team do the absolute best they can each season and do not repeat constantly the mistakes of previous seasons. Not much to ask you would think given the increased cost of watching the same fare each year.

Good post, but be careful how you make mention of "relentless pursuit of trophies", lest you be branded as a glory hunter.

[Marc Overmars]

I think it's the club who lack perspective to an extent as well. The way they go on about so many years of consistent CL football, you'd think that's all top players are after. It hasn't stopped our best players from walking out every year because they want to win trophies as well.

The 2 things are not mutually exclusive.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Good post, but be careful how you make mention of "relentless pursuit of trophies", lest you be branded as a glory hunter.

The point GG makes about winning on his own terms is an excellent one.

Your jibe about glory hunters is a very ignorant one. The whole purpose of professional sport is, or rather ought to be about doing everything you can in a fair and competitive environment to win trophies.

That has nothing whatsoever to do with being a glory hunter as a fan.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

The point GG makes about winning on his own terms is an excellent one.

Your jibe about glory hunters is a very ignorant one. The whole purpose of professional sport is, or rather ought to be about doing everything you can in a fair and competitive environment to win trophies.

That has nothing whatsoever to do with being a glory hunter as a fan.

I like that.

[-Xs-]

Yeah

It's not the lack of success that people are frustrated with IMO, it's that we don't even seem to be trying for it anymore.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think we are trying very hard to be successful, it is just that it is not the type of success that is or should be important to a fan.

[Power n Glory]

The lack of trophies doesn’t bother Wenger from the looks of things. He’ll probably look back on his career and take pride in the fact that he built the foundations for the club and helped paved the way for great players like Henry, Vieira, Pires, RVP, Fabregas, Ashley Cole and coached greats like Bergkamp. PFA winners, Internationals and World Cup, Euro Winners. I think he’ll find solace in that as an achievement and his legacy. Even though he hasn’t won the Champs League and the highest honours, he’ll look back at the players he coached and take pride in that instead. It’s a bitch for us fans because our pride will come from the clubs progression and winning top honours not the individual players that used to play for us.

[Letters]

The whole purpose of professional sport is, or rather ought to be about doing everything you can in a fair and competitive environment to win trophies.
Unfortunately that doesn't exist in football. Arguably never has but it's got worse in the Premier League era.

As for the article, it's not very good. I accept we can't compete with City, Utd or Chelsea. What I can't accept is not even trying to, fleecing the fans with silly ticket prices and relentless marketing and sitting back and watching the money roll in.

[PGFC]

Well, if you will look at it that way.

[Syn]

Our problem isn't that we've lost perspective, it's that we haven't gained perspective. It's like watching Wrestling is fine when you're 13 but then you grow out of it. We haven't grown out of this idea of having a favourite team. And we should have, because they don't give a fuck about you. There is no 'community' feel, there are no local players defining the side and you're wasting energy supporting a bunch of strangers. On the one hand I get irritated with people who 'love' the Queen and the monarchy. And on the other hand, I get annoyed when Shawcross hacks down Cazorla. I'm a fucking idiot tbh. As are us all.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I got this far:


Arsenal Fans Need To Accept They Are The Biggest Problem With The Club

And realised I didnt need to read anymore as its another article which really doesnt have a fucking clue why us as fans are pissed off.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Our problem isn't that we've lost perspective, it's that we haven't gained perspective. It's like watching Wrestling is fine when you're 13 but then you grow out of it. We haven't grown out of this idea of having a favourite team. And we should have, because they don't give a fuck about you. There is no 'community' feel, there are no local players defining the side and you're wasting energy supporting a bunch of strangers. On the one hand I get irritated with people who 'love' the Queen and the monarchy. And on the other hand, I get annoyed when Shawcross hacks down Cazorla. I'm a fucking idiot tbh. As are us all.

The fuck is wrong with watching wrestling?!?

Im 32 and I still watch it

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w76/jimihifi/rfw_zps266e3389.png

[fakeyank]

Shit article

/thread

[IBK]

Unfortunately that doesn't exist in football. Arguably never has but it's got worse in the Premier League era.

As for the article, it's not very good. I accept we can't compete with City, Utd or Chelsea. What I can't accept is not even trying to, fleecing the fans with silly ticket prices and relentless marketing and sitting back and watching the money roll in.

I agree re the article, but I ask again, are we Gooners united behind our club or have we let our frustrations undermine what it means to support a club. Just askin'.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't like half the shit I see and hear every week but come matchdays I'm always willing the team to do well, I don't think that's letting my frustrations undermine my support. Supporting the team is one thing but being forced to accept something is another.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't like half the shit I see and hear every week but come matchdays I'm always willing the team to do well, I don't think that's letting my frustrations undermine my support. Supporting the team is one thing but being forced to accept something is another.

Is it the same as 10 years back though? Not just on the level of trophies of course, but in terms of feeling it for days after when the team has won or lost? Reading all the back pages, buying 5 newspapers to get slightly different takes on how the lads did or how they didn't (yeah I used to do that)? I couldn't tell you what goes on at Arsenal these days, but previously I knew who was coming through the ranks, what the upcoming fixture list was, I could instantly recall how many points behind or ahead we were of so-and-so, work out the goal difference, figure the points tallies from upcoming games (including the other clubs). Now I don't know who we are playing next week until a thread gets posted here. In fact this place might be the only thing keeping me in touch with the club. Don't know about you but for me it's not the same - nowhere near it.

[AKBapologist]

If Arsenal fans weren't charged the highest prices in the game to support the club then this article wouldn't be completely crop.

sent from a fone