Match Reaction vs Blackburn Rovers!

[Newguy]

Shocking!!!!

The only real trophy Wenger gives a fuck about is the Champions League...thats what he wants to win...he's delusional if he thinks we have a chance against Bayern.

Diaby should have come off, when we need to push he is not the player you want on the pitch...ponderous, slow, lazy....and Gervinho, what a loser this guy is, yet wenger plays him.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Fuck.

[Injury Time]

Just fuck off.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Oh dear.

They only started to do anything worthwhile when they saw the three subs stripped off. And a minute later Blackburn score. :lol:

[Kano]

let's get fourth and do this all again next season. fuck sake.

[Joker]

Our lack of squad depth exposed once again. Without Wilshere in central midfield everything is played at snail's pace and looks so pedestrian.

Oh well, at least we can concentrate on the 4th place trophy now.

[fakeyank]

VE VILL VIN FA CUP 2013-2014

[Kano]

Our lack of squad depth exposed once again. Without Wilshere in central midfield everything is played at snail's pace and looks so pedestrian.

Oh well, at least we can concentrate on the 4th place trophy now.
that team should've had enough to win a game against blackburn but as usual, no drive or motivation from the manager.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

A new low.

Wenger must do the honourable thing and walk. He's now a miserable failure.

We're never going to win shit by selling the Cescs and RvP's whilst persisting with dross like Gervinho, Diaby, Arteta, Oxo, Rosicky et al.

Compare our quality player retention against other teams and we'll be found shockingly wanting.

WENGER OUT!

[Joker]

that team should've had enough to win a game against blackburn but as usual, no drive or motivation from the manager.

Tbh when I looked at the lineup I did think there was enough to win as well, even though I knew it would be somewhat of a struggle to play fluently without Wilshere's energy. When playing teams like Blackburn, you've got to play at a high tempo and force them to lose possession. Instead, we seemed in 2nd gear for most of the game until the sucker punch, after which it was too late to recover.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Our lack of squad depth exposed once again. Without Wilshere in central midfield everything is played at snail's pace and looks so pedestrian.

Oh well, at least we can concentrate on the 4th place trophy now.

It is hard to understand why he was stuck on the left-wing putting crosses in when he came on. Diaby was terrible today. Played at walking pace and kept losing the ball.

[Master Splinter]

Mike Dean strikes again.

[Injury Time]

A new low.

Wenger must do the honourable thing and walk. He's now a miserable failure.

We're never going to win shit by selling the Cescs and RvP's whilst persisting with dross like Gervinho, Diaby, Arteta, Oxo, Rosicky et al.

Compare our quality player retention against other teams and we'll be found shockingly wanting.

WENGER OUT!
Don't worry only have to wait until Tuesday for a newer low :good:

[Joker]

It is hard to understand why he was stuck on the left-wing putting crosses in when he came on. Diaby was terrible today. Played at walking pace and kept losing the ball.

Yeah that was strange, ideally he'd be in the centre trying to make things happen.

[Newguy]

It is hard to understand why he was stuck on the left-wing putting crosses in when he came on. Diaby was terrible today. Played at walking pace and kept losing the ball.
Diaby is finished, but Wenger will persist with him out of pity... I feel he should have came off and Rsicky stay on, he just hit the bar yet he is subbed off.

Never thought we'd get knocked out to Blackburn at home.

[Grebbo]

Back to form.

£12m for Oxo??!! Should've given RVP £12m to re-sign.

[Ollie the Optimist]

i cant defend him anymore, he has to go :(

shit game, no effort, no one should be paid. mike dean is a ****, and even if he awarded the blatenet penalty that we should have had, it still wouldnt have made it any better.


fucking ****s

[AKBapologist]

What really really annoys me is that Blackburn was by far the porrest team we've played this season, what the shit are these fucks doing.

[hymppi]

Not much I can say about that horror show.

Wenger has managed to kill a perfectly good football team, slowly let it get rotten to the core.
Please, just fucking leave. It cannot get any worse that this.
And as someone is about to say that some other manager might not get us to top four...see, we are not there now, are we?

We're nothing but an upper mid-table has-been. A fallen giant. A serving of fish and chips half eaten, tossed on ground, wrapped in yesterday's news.
:rose:

[Kano]

this is what happens when the team are told to target fourth and focus on the cl.

[fakeyank]

A new low.

Wenger must do the honourable thing and walk. He's now a miserable failure.

We're never going to win shit by selling the Cescs and RvP's whilst persisting with dross like Gervinho, Diaby, Arteta, Oxo, Rosicky et al.

Compare our quality player retention against other teams and we'll be found shockingly wanting.

WENGER OUT!

On the bright side, we'd be top of the table in terms of losing super quality! :)

[Master Splinter]

Shit ex-player inevitably scoring against us strikes again too.

[Gubby Allen]

Third week in February. We're bloody consistent if nothing else.

[Kano]

man utd double this season?

i feel sick.

[Gubby Allen]

Back to form.

£12m for Oxo??!! Should've given RVP £12m to re-sign.

Ox was terrific for half a season, until we coach it out of them.

He'll pick up again 6 months before a contract is due, if the last 8 years are a template.

[Dennis Bendtner]

this is what happens when the team are told to target fourth and focus on the cl.

More like when the squad lacks real quality beyond a few, probably. Ox, Gervinho, Coquelin, Diaby etc were really really poor today. Some have potential and some are dead ducks but in the here and now there isn't the quality there to make wholesale changes and expect to win all these types of game. The first XI in itself is hardly brilliant.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

i cant defend him anymore, he has to go :(

shit game, no effort, no one should be paid. mike dean is a ****, and even if he awarded the blatenet penalty that we should have had, it still wouldnt have made it any better.


fucking ****s

:patrice:

[Ollie the Optimist]

:patrice:


its not a cuase for celebration you prick. its a bad thing we want a manager gone.

[Joker]

its not a cuase for celebration you prick. its a bad thing we want a manager gone.

When he leaves it will be a good thing though. We're in decline now, and at least a new manager can potentially stop the rot (although without a new board a manager can only do so much).

[Ollie the Optimist]

When he leaves it will be a good thing though. We're in decline now, and at least a new manager can potentially stop the rot (although without a new board a manager can only do so much).

no one knows if it will be a good thing. a lot of the players love him, it might cause problems if he is sacked, you jsut dont know. i think its worth a try now to get a new manager, but we cannot say for absoutle certainity that it will be a good thing. the new manager could come in, and we could do even worse.

[Joker]

no one knows if it will be a good thing. a lot of the players love him, it might cause problems if he is sacked, you jsut dont know. i think its worth a try now to get a new manager, but we cannot say for absoutle certainity that it will be a good thing. the new manager could come in, and we could do even worse.

Yes we could do worse, but the time for risk aversion is over.

[RomfordPele]

Embarrassing and predictable. But hey, at least the cash tills are still ringing, eh?

[Injury Time]

Calm down dear, he won't be sacked before not getting 4th...even then he'll get to honour his contract.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

its not a cuase for celebration you prick. its a bad thing we want a manager gone.

:patrice:

[Master Splinter]

BBC:


The home dressing room is still firmly shut at the Emirates. The inquest could be a long one.

Little bit hair dryer?

Or more likely, Gervinho slipped and bolted the door shut.

[Marc Overmars]

Just got in and seen the result.

Pathetic. Another fuck up to add to the ever growing list.

Wenget. :wave:

[Injury Time]

The team beating the shit out of WUMger?

[Özil's Panoramic View]

no one knows if it will be a good thing. a lot of the players love him, it might cause problems if he is sacked, you jsut dont know. i think its worth a try now to get a new manager, but we cannot say for absoutle certainity that it will be a good thing. the new manager could come in, and we could do even worse.

Were I Gervinho, Diaby, Chamakh, Arteta, Arshavin, et al, I'd be loving the fuck out of him for obvious reasons as well.

[Globalgunner]

I am pretty damm absolutely sure that the only instruction Wenger ever gives his players is " Just go out there and play your game, the goals will come". The man is a clueless out of date shambolic, con artist.

Truth is these results never make me sad anymore i am past that. The good results are the ones that surprise me. it is the only way I can handle the dogshite served up daily nowadays. I live only for the day the muppet leaves us. Every new day brings that a bit closer.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

"@prodnose: Most Millwall supporters disappointed Arsenal are out. Not because we fancied a "glamour" tie but because Blackburn will be harder to beat."

:haha:

What a comedy club we've become.

[Kano]

More like when the squad lacks real quality beyond a few, probably. Ox, Gervinho, Coquelin, Diaby etc were really really poor today. Some have potential and some are dead ducks but in the here and now there isn't the quality there to make wholesale changes and expect to win all these types of game. The first XI in itself is hardly brilliant.
i think a new manager could motivate this lot to do better than today. we've seen it enough with the first team and slow, half hearted starts. this squad is better than battling for fourth in my opinion - especially in the current state of this league. not a title winning team but could at least give it a better shot than this.

[leaf]

Out of fa cup hopefully get smashed by bayern and finish outside top 4 survey then someone has got to wake up and smell the coffee

[Kano]

no one knows if it will be a good thing. a lot of the players love him, it might cause problems if he is sacked, you jsut dont know. i think its worth a try now to get a new manager, but we cannot say for absoutle certainity that it will be a good thing. the new manager could come in, and we could do even worse.
well you never know until you try and we are past the point of clinging on to what we have just for the sake of it. you get nowhere without a gamble - exactly what we are seeing season on season here.

[Marc Overmars]

i think a new manager could motivate this lot to do better than today. we've seen it enough with the first team and slow, half hearted starts. this squad is better than battling for fourth in my opinion - especially in the current state of this league. not a title winning team but could at least give it a better shot than this.

We've been dumped out of both cups by Football League opponents, I think it's safe to say now the bloke in charge is the problem because there's no way these players should have lost these games, we are completely devoid of any sort of winning mentality. It's ridiculous, 8 years and we've not even managed to fluke a cup win along the way to keep things a little bit sweet.

Wenget needs to walk away in the summer, he's got nothing left to give.

[RomfordPele]

well you never know until you try and we are past the point of clinging on to what we have just for the sake of it. you get nowhere without a gamble - exactly what we are seeing season on season here.

Yep, we're going nowhere with the mad professor. I'm willing to take the gamble.

[Gubby Allen]

We've been dumped out of both cups by Football League opponents, I think it's safe to say now the bloke in charge is the problem because there's no way these players should have lost these games, we are completely devoid of any sort of winning mentality. It's ridiculous, 8 years and we've not even managed to fluke a cup win along the way to keep things a little bit sweet.

Wenget needs to walk away in the summer, he's got nothing left to give.

I would not put us in the top 25 or 30 sides most likely to win either domestic cup.

Every single P.L side I would back over us to win a trophy and plenty of clubs from outside. Same for next season. Odds of about 100/1 would reflect our actual likelihood.

[Power n Glory]

:coffee: I really don't give a shit anymore. Fuck em. Fans need to stop paying money for this shit.

[Kano]

Fans need to stop paying money for this shit.
not very realistic though is it. football fans anywhere don't work like that en masse, which is exactly why owners of clubs get away with murder.

[Power n Glory]

not very realistic though is it. football fans anywhere don't work like that en masse, which is exactly why owners of clubs get away with murder.

Attendance is down this year. More empty seats than usual. Plus there is very little point in talking about it all the time if we contribute to the problem by sitting idle.

[Kano]

that's absolute bollocks to suggest the fans are part of the problem. fans love their club. they will keep going week on week. why do you think portsmouth have fans turning up? 12 or something game lost in a row, points deduction on its way, relegation after relegation. it happens everywhere and the principal applies to every club. fans have hope and always will. its an escape route from the bullshit grind of the week. sit behind a keyboard and calling fans idle is even more cowardly. what are you doing, not going? that's not enough by your reckoning. do something more.

[Grebbo]

For everyone wanting Wenger out remember that two of the 'up and coming bright young managers' AVB and Brenton Rodgers crashed out in the FA and Cap1 cup before old man Wenger did.

Not an excuse but just thought I'd mention it.

No point changing the manager unless you change the board as well.

[Power n Glory]

that's absolute bollocks to suggest the fans are part of the problem. fans love their club. they will keep going week on week. why do you think portsmouth have fans turning up? 12 or something game lost in a row, points deduction on its way, relegation after relegation. it happens everywhere and the principal applies to every club. fans have hope and always will. its an escape route from the bullshit grind of the week. sit behind a keyboard and calling fans idle is even more cowardly. what are you doing, not going? that's not enough by your reckoning. do something more.

Whatever Terry! :coffee:

But you said it yourself, the Board are able to get away with this because fans continue to go. If you're willing to keep going to games but still complain about the way we're going, that's your choice. But it's part of the problem because the Board only see money and don't care about the results if that's the general conclusion. So what else is left?

This may not apply to you, but it would be interesting to see how many regulars are considering giving next season a miss. We don't exactly need an empty stadium and I doubt Pompey are packed to full capacity every game as well.

[Letters]

BBC:



Little bit hair dryer?

Or more likely, Gervinho slipped and bolted the door shut.
:haha:

:(

Bah. There was no real effort till we went 1-0 down. If we'd played like we did in the last 10 minutes for the first 80 we'd have won at a canter.
Not good enough.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I genuinely believe that to many of our players, the result of a game is immaterial to them. They are paid wages as if they have arrived without the need to have actually achieve anything.

I actively hate more players than I love in this team by a considerable margin.

This result will be seen as an upset. But for it to be a genuine upset, it would need to be a big surprise. But really who here is either genuinely surprised by either the result or the performance?

[IBK]

I am pretty damm absolutely sure that the only instruction Wenger ever gives his players is " Just go out there and play your game, the goals will come". The man is a clueless out of date shambolic, con artist.

Truth is these results never make me sad anymore i am past that. The good results are the ones that surprise me. it is the only way I can handle the dogshite served up daily nowadays. I live only for the day the muppet leaves us. Every new day brings that a bit closer.

Nail on head mate (though I wouldn't use precisely those words about Wenger himself - maybe because of my feelings below). The main point that I want to make about today's new low is that not only is it predictable, but that over the past 3 seasons my care factor is at an all time low. By showing that his ego is more important than us winning, and frankly taking the piss with most of his decisions, Wenger has actually undermined my enthusiasm not just for AFC but for the game itself!

I am not joking when I say that I would prefer to be a Liverpool fan right now, even though Brendan Rogers will IMO not turn out to be a masively successful manager. At last the Scousers have some reason still to hope it will work out. Its as though Wenger has sucked out all hope and promise out of the fans as well as his players.

My question is whether I will get back to caring at all even when he goes.

[IBK]

For everyone wanting Wenger out remember that two of the 'up and coming bright young managers' AVB and Brenton Rodgers crashed out in the FA and Cap1 cup before old man Wenger did.

Not an excuse but just thought I'd mention it.

No point changing the manager unless you change the board as well.

Point taken, but both managers you mention can point to the fact that they are newly appointed and clearly in the throes of building their own projects. Its less exusable that a manager of Wenger's experience and reputation - not to mention salary - can have his pants pulled down by frankly inferior teams.

Spurs and Liverpool fans will feel that they are part of a project with forward momentum, and can hope for better things. We are a sinking ship and an increasing object of fun.

[GP]

Disappointing.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The care factor is gone because there is no hope of change. We are in the longest rut I've ever seen a team endure. Nothing ever changes, we can pretty much state at the start of the season where this club will be at any given point of almost every competition we are involved in.

And after it all, Gazidis will remark that we have had another fantastic year when commenting on the financial results. Meanwhile the fans feel like Phil Connor at his most desolate moment in Grounding Day.

[Marc Overmars]

RVC woz rite.

[Grebbo]

Point taken, but both managers you mention can point to the fact that they are newly appointed and clearly in the throes of building their own projects. Its less exusable that a manager of Wenger's experience and reputation - not to mention salary - can have his pants pulled down by frankly inferior teams.

Spurs and Liverpool fans will feel that they are part of a project with forward momentum, and can hope for better things. We are a sinking ship and an increasing object of fun.

I agree but Wenger has been forced to sell his best players and replace them with inferior players. Unless you're one of these people who believes he does it on purpose.

It's impossible to improve if you let your best players leave every season.

I think every team in the Prem bar Manure could have slipped up to Blackburn because the quality of Prem teams is piss poor other than Manure and possibly City.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

I agree but Wenger has been forced to sell his best players and replace them with inferior players. Unless you're one of these people who believes he does it on purpose.

It's impossible to improve if you let your best players leave every season.

I think every team in the Prem bar Manure could have slipped up to Blackburn because the quality of Prem teams is piss poor other than Manure and possibly City.

Where is your proof of that? And even if he was being forced to do such, why hasn't he taken a stand instead of tarnishing his reputation beyond repair at this point, therby destroying what could have been an enviable legacy?

Be gone with your apologist drivel before someone drops a house on you, sir.

[Power n Glory]

Regardless of what is happening behind the scenes there is still no excuse for his record. We've been knocked out of the two cups by lower division teams. That has nothing to do with our transfer policy and you also have to question his attitude when it comes to these cups. What he says in about 4th place and the cups is bad enough and it has an effect on the players as well.

[Cripps_orig]

Didn't think we could have a more embarrassing season than the 10/11 season. I was wrong.

Pound for pound the worst team in the country we are so I'm not surprised by the result. I said through my minion on the match thread Blackburn were favourites. I hate being right

[Cripps_orig]

Arsène Wenger faced the media after the FA Cup fifth-round defeat to Blackburn Rovers on Saturday. This is what he had to say:

on any regrets over team selection…
No. We had 11 international players on the pitch at the start of the game. When we made the changes we were at 0-0.

on the performance…
We had a lot of the ball and [Blackburn] defended well. I believe we had 70 per cent of the ball, we had 16 shots at goal, they only had one shot at goal. For us it's a typical cup game where it's important not to concede and keep a clean sheet and I think we made a massive mistake on the goal. In a game like that it was down [to us] to keep a clean sheet and score in the final 15 minutes.

on the mistake on the goal…
I do not want to go too much into detail but I believe we were really guilty on the goal.
Offensively we lacked ruthlessness and calm in front of goal. We didn't make enough of our corners

on losing to Bradford and now Blackburn…
If you look at the Premier League teams who went out against lower-league sides you will see it happened to many of them. We were not good enough to win the game, it is as simple as that.

on whether that is acceptable…
Not one defeat is acceptable. You are in this job to win every single game.

on the reaction of the fans…
I can understand it. You do not want your fans to be happy when you lose at home to Blackburn when the team has one shot at goal.

on where this defeat ranks…
It is very painful and very disappointing to lose a game like that. What is important now is to focus on the next one.

on missing out on two trophies…
Of course it is disappointing. It is very difficult to accept but it happened and we had enough chances to win, but we didn't. Offensively we lacked ruthlessness and calm in front of goal. We didn't make enough of our corners, and we were vulnerable on one mistake.
It is important to focus on our next game and it is a good opportunity to show that we have character and are men who can fight for each other

on how difficult this season has been…
The season is not over. For you maybe, not for me.

on facing Bayern Munich yet…
I think it is important to focus on our next game and it is a good opportunity to show that we have character and are men who can fight for each other. That is all you can do. You take a distance in terms of what people say and show how strong and good you are in the next game.

on lifting the team…
It is not difficult at all. It is our job. If we feel sorry for ourselves we would be completely wrong. We have a massive game on Tuesday night and we have to show that we some response in the team.

on the reaction to the defeat…
I leave all the headlines and the definite thinking to you. Football is much more unpredictable than that and I believe that 16 years without losing against a lower-league team, no one has done it so that means now up until now the record has been quite good. It is very disappointing that the two [defeats] have happened in the same season but I prepared these two in the same way that did in the 16 years before. If you lose a game people will be very unhappy, I am as well don't worry.


Know nothing bit the scoreline. Don't even know who scored. Whose mistake was it?

[Cripps_orig]

Just seen the highlights. We are awful. Defending for the goal was pathetic. Ches :doh:

[Niall_Quinn]

Know nothing bit the scoreline. Don't even know who scored. Whose mistake was it?

Walcott who is a lazy bastard and is too good to cover back, the defence as always (no explanation needed for them, just think back to any of their fuck ups), Ches who is rapidly turning out to be a failed prospect - a dreadful palm out right into the heart of the box. he's done it before, like so many of our players he doesn't learn from his mistakes. Basically, these guys might say they give a fuck but watching them fuck up game after game tells the real story.

[Niall_Quinn]

I agree but Wenger has been forced to sell his best players and replace them with inferior players. Unless you're one of these people who believes he does it on purpose.

It's impossible to improve if you let your best players leave every season.

I think every team in the Prem bar Manure could have slipped up to Blackburn because the quality of Prem teams is piss poor other than Manure and possibly City.

Completely correct on the selling policy. Of course no manager would want to sell his best players, that's just logical. And that's why our team is so shit now. However. Wenger is heavily to blame for this defeat because it's so evident he doesn't give a shit about the domestic cups. That must surely filter through to a bunch of already lazy and complacent players who are in the main just here to take the money. From top to bottom, nobody at the club gives a fuck about the fans - not that I can see anyway. Maybe Jack but let's wait to see who he's playing for in 3 years time. The cups are important to fans maybe, we used to be the FA Cup kings FFS. But our views count for shit with the club - we're nowhere in the scheme of things. The board, the manager, the players have their own various agendas and the fans are only considered in terms of arses on seats, shirts on backs and Sky TV subscriptions. Money. Pay up and go fuck yourself - that's the attitude.

[Sirjackofwilshere]

Get rid of that sleaze ball Kroenke, get in a new proactive, progressive board then by all means get rid of Wenger

Getting rid now really wldnt change much

[-Xs-]

The board don't pick the team. I think it's fair to assume that. Neither do they fail to address the tactical naivety we show game after game, the failure to address basic defending mistakes which shouldn't be repeated as frequently as we see with one of the most supported and successful clubs in London. These are the things Wenger simply has to take responsibility for, it's what he is paid 7 million a year to sort out ffs.

Is it really that much to ask for? A manager who can manage a team?

[Marc Overmars]

Whilst it's true the board are responsible for allowing this acceptance of underachievement, it's difficult to look beyond the manager when the team struggle in even the most straight-forward looking fixtures.

Any new manager is going to be a gamble but I can't see how Wenger being in charge is giving us the best chance of success anymore. The team have ability which they display sporadically but half of the time they look horrifically stale, like a shell of the team they could potentially be. You have to ask why the manager rarely seems to get a response from his players, what is he constantly failing to convey to them?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

People complain about Wenger's lack of spending, i'd say he spends plenty, what people don't seem to realise is that transfer fees mean very little the real money is spent on wages so when the board say Arsene has 30-40million to spend per season they mean it and it is spent. If you look at what is spent on wages on the players who are out on loan (Santos, Denilson, Chamakh, Park, Bendtner) and the players who are just sitting around not getting games (Arshavin, Squillaci, Rosicky) and players that do get games but are clearly not good enough (Arteta, Ramsey, Gervinho, Mertesacker) over a four year period the amount would be staggering and it's money that's been hemorrhaged by the club needlessly.

[Power n Glory]

Is another debate about finances really necessary? We've been kicked out of another cup by a Championship division team again. Enough is enough now. Are we saying we need an extra £100 in wages and signings to beat these teams?

[Ernesto]

Whilst it's true the board are responsible for allowing this acceptance of underachievement, it's difficult to look beyond the manager when the team struggle in even the most straight-forward looking fixtures.

Any new manager is going to be a gamble but I can't see how Wenger being in charge is giving us the best chance of success anymore. The team have ability which they display sporadically but half of the time they look horrifically stale, like a shell of the team they could potentially be. You have to ask why the manager rarely seems to get a response from his players, what is he constantly failing to convey to them?

I struggle to think of the last time we started a game like a house on fire, grabbing a quick goal in the first 5 minutes and setting the tone for the rest of the game. The fact is, if we'd played like we did in the last 15 minutes yesterday in the FIRST 15 minutes, we'd have done em. Either through tiredness or individual errors, Blackburn would have let us in to score a goal.

But, no. It was stupid and selfish on the part of Wenger to 1) play a weakened team and, 2) to not give the team he played a proper team-talk (because that is inevitably where the problem is in so many of our games)

In Wenger's 16/17 odd-years at the club, he only ever went out once to a lower league club in cup competition (Burnley in the Carling Cup a few years back, when they were on the cusp of gaining promotion to the Premiership anyway). Within one season, it's happened twice. Add to that a home defeat in the Champions League to an overseas team who, as we showed in the reverse fixture, we could've dealt with quite easily at the Emirates. It's a downward spiral.

The only way the fans can get back at the manager, the board, the players, is to forget the game on Tuesday. Win, lose or draw, the Emirates remains empty and the VERY competition the board and the manager seem to pride themselves on is, in effect, belittled by the fans. It's an ideal scenario, but perhaps unrealistic.

[hobson's choice]

the thing I miss most about Arsenal these past few seasons, is the entertainment.

For a long time, when people tuned in to watch Arsenal, they were expecting to be entertained, and they were. Even in the 06/07 seasons, which before the last two seasons, was our most dire in the Wenger years. The football was good, lots of chances(couldn't score), players that gave it all, and always stepped up against the boys.

I just get bored as fuck watching Arsenal of the past couple of years play. It's horrid at times.

It's such a shame, a team that played such glorious football, is now essentially putting it's own fans to sleep.

[Injury Time]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21485114
:blah: cocksucker :blah: "response on Tuesday" :blah: "don't know how we lost to one shot" :blink: :blah: :ilt:

[Marc Overmars]

If we win the CL it would be an even bigger fluke/miracle than Chelsea.

[Niall_Quinn]

If we win the CL it would be an even bigger fluke/miracle than Chelsea.

The chavs won it with their defence and organisation. We have neither. We have absolutely zero chance of winning the CL. The mere suggestion is us moving from having a genuine chance of winning a domestic cup to clutching at the very last straw. It's a disgrace the way we threw those cups away. People are saying we had enough on the pitch to have won the game. i don't think so. I think players like Diaby and Gervinho are piss poor, we always need our best players on the pitch to compete. Long gone are the days when we had quality in depth.

Also, that **** Kroenke is getting off very lightly. And the bastard shareholders who cut and run. Very true, they don't set the on-field tactics, they don't pick the team. But they sure as fuck gut the team every transfer window. Fuck them.

[Power n Glory]

The chavs won it with their defence and organisation. We have neither. We have absolutely zero chance of winning the CL. The mere suggestion is us moving from having a genuine chance of winning a domestic cup to clutching at the very last straw. It's a disgrace the way we threw those cups away. People are saying we had enough on the pitch to have won the game. i don't think so. I think players like Diaby and Gervinho are piss poor, we always need our best players on the pitch to compete. Long gone are the days when we had quality in depth.

Also, that **** Kroenke is getting off very lightly. And the bastard shareholders who cut and run. Very true, they don't set the on-field tactics, they don't pick the team. But they sure as fuck gut the team every transfer window. Fuck them.

We used to destroy these teams with our reserve kids back in the day so what the heck has happened? Are Diaby and Gervinho worse than Denilson and Vela? We never used to need a full strength squad and shouldn't take that either because the players out on the field should be better than Blackburn and any Championship team for that matter.

[Injury Time]

We used to destroy these teams with our reserve kids back in the day so what the heck has happened? Are Diaby and Gervinho worse than Denilson and Vela? We never used to need a full strength squad and shouldn't take that either because the players out on the field should be better than Blackburn and any Championship team for that matter.
They were on with something to prove (gain a place in a title challenging team) and the belief that they could win; now there is no real competition for places (if Aw doesnt rate you you go on loan or sit on your ass getting paid the same so why bother) and the belief that we can we win is long gone.

[selassie]

I couldn't bring myself to come on here yesterday after the aftermath of the defeat. The sad thing is I wasn't even that surprised we lost yesterday, a couple of years ago a defeat at home to a mid table Championship side would have been unthinkable...not anymore unfortunately.

I've not seen the highlights of the game, have not bought a newspaper and don't really care to listen to Arsene's post match press conference.

For me this season couldn't end soon enough, I don't believe in this team to finish in the top 4, don't believe in this team to go any further in CL and most crucially don't believe in our Manager, I haven't believed in Arsene for around 3 seasons now...things are just getting worse IMHO.

If we want to bring finances into this debate, I wouldn't trust Arsene with money even if the board were to give him significant funds, Arsene absolutely has to go, no more excuses.

That's pretty much all I've got to say on the current situation, I really do not see any progress, not under the current regime. Something has to give.....

[IBK]

I couldn't bring myself to come on here yesterday after the aftermath of the defeat. The sad thing is I wasn't even that surprised we lost yesterday, a couple of years ago a defeat at home to a mid table Championship side would have been unthinkable...not anymore unfortunately.

I've not seen the highlights of the game, have not bought a newspaper and don't really care to listen to Arsene's post match press conference.

For me this season couldn't end soon enough, I don't believe in this team to finish in the top 4, don't believe in this team to go any further in CL and most crucially don't believe in our Manager, I haven't believed in Arsene for around 3 seasons now...things are just getting worse IMHO.

If we want to bring finances into this debate, I wouldn't trust Arsene with money even if the board were to give him significant funds, Arsene absolutely has to go, no more excuses.

That's pretty much all I've got to say on the current situation, I really do not see any progress, not under the current regime. Something has to give.....

I agree with all that. And re the debate over whether Wenger is to blame - in the unlikely event that he has been coerced by the board into selling his best pleyers year on year then I still blame him because simply putting up with something that is hurting the club demonstrates collusion in what is going on.

[Niall_Quinn]

I couldn't bring myself to come on here yesterday after the aftermath of the defeat. The sad thing is I wasn't even that surprised we lost yesterday, a couple of years ago a defeat at home to a mid table Championship side would have been unthinkable...not anymore unfortunately.

I've not seen the highlights of the game, have not bought a newspaper and don't really care to listen to Arsene's post match press conference.

For me this season couldn't end soon enough, I don't believe in this team to finish in the top 4, don't believe in this team to go any further in CL and most crucially don't believe in our Manager, I haven't believed in Arsene for around 3 seasons now...things are just getting worse IMHO.

If we want to bring finances into this debate, I wouldn't trust Arsene with money even if the board were to give him significant funds, Arsene absolutely has to go, no more excuses.

That's pretty much all I've got to say on the current situation, I really do not see any progress, not under the current regime. Something has to give.....

Yeah, I'm in the same boat in terms of my thinking. However, when I look deeper what do I see? Not a club that's floundering because we've hit on hard times in terms of finances or support or any other factor. In fact we're earning more than ever before, listening to boasts about being in the top ten financial football powerhouses on the planet. We're not short of a player or two on fancy wages. The bods at the top don't do so bad when it comes to pay day - especially the big days where half a billion changes hands. It's not all bad news. Not bad for the owners, the executives, the manager, the players. In fact life just keeps getting better and better for those guys. Arsenal is firing on all cylinders for the main party goers. It's just they don't want to dance with the ones who brung 'em, not any more anyway. It would be easier supporting a small club with no hope. It's harder work supporting a big club with no hope, especially when you know it has been engineered that way.

[Letters]

I couldn't bring myself to come on here yesterday after the aftermath of the defeat. The sad thing is I wasn't even that surprised we lost yesterday, a couple of years ago a defeat at home to a mid table Championship side would have been unthinkable...not anymore unfortunately.

I've not seen the highlights of the game, have not bought a newspaper and don't really care to listen to Arsene's post match press conference.

For me this season couldn't end soon enough, I don't believe in this team to finish in the top 4, don't believe in this team to go any further in CL and most crucially don't believe in our Manager, I haven't believed in Arsene for around 3 seasons now...things are just getting worse IMHO.

If we want to bring finances into this debate, I wouldn't trust Arsene with money even if the board were to give him significant funds, Arsene absolutely has to go, no more excuses.

That's pretty much all I've got to say on the current situation, I really do not see any progress, not under the current regime. Something has to give.....

Agree with everything apart from the bit in bold. I think we've got a pretty decent chance of a top 4 finish because it's the only thing the players, manager and board care about. Or rather, it's the top priority all round. Anything else is a nice to have.

[Grebbo]

These things happen. Terrible result but we weren't going to win the FA Cup anyway so who cares??!!

Moyes is touted as the next Man U or Chelsea manager but his team couldn't even beat Oldham and are shittier than us in the league.
Brenton Rodgers and AVB are supposedly bright young things re-inventing the way football is played but they went out of both cups sooner than us.

Wenger is an excellent manager who is having to deal with a severe decline in the quality of player in his team. Sure, he bought them I hear you say but trying to run Arsenal at a profit when none of the other top 6 teams are doing so leaves him with an impossible task of trying to build a winning team. It's impossible.

I'm not really bothered if Wenger stays or goes but some of you are in for a shock when the same shite happens under a new manager. Nothing will change until the board goes.

[Power n Glory]

The problem with Wenger is that he's not even fighting the Board and sanctions the sale of our players. It may be bad when he's gone but I at least want a manager in that will fight for football and the right agenda.

[selassie]

These things happen. Terrible result but we weren't going to win the FA Cup anyway so who cares??!!

Moyes is touted as the next Man U or Chelsea manager but his team couldn't even beat Oldham and are shittier than us in the league.
Brenton Rodgers and AVB are supposedly bright young things re-inventing the way football is played but they went out of both cups sooner than us.

Wenger is an excellent manager who is having to deal with a severe decline in the quality of player in his team. Sure, he bought them I hear you say but trying to run Arsenal at a profit when none of the other top 6 teams are doing so leaves him with an impossible task of trying to build a winning team. It's impossible.

I'm not really bothered if Wenger stays or goes but some of you are in for a shock when the same shite happens under a new manager. Nothing will change until the board goes.

Grebbo, whilst I admire your defence of Arsene unless you have solid facts to back up that Arsene is handicapped by funds a lot of what you say is just opinion.

Moreover, why should we compare ourselves to Everton or Liverpool? We should be comparing ourselves to the best, we have a state of the art stadium, state of the art training facilities, generate millions of pounds every year, have a healthy balance sheet (so we are told), we are in the top 10 in terms of wealth of clubs in Europe.

So tell me this, given the above information, why should we settle for second best? The whole point of moving to a new stadium was to compete with the best, to attract the best players, to turn the club into a European super power both on and off the field.

I can accept that we had to endure a period where investment in the team is minimal and team performance would most likely suffer which it has, but why is it still going on? I really don't understand why we're in a position where we have to gut the team of it's best players every single year without replacing these players adequately.

In my opinion Wenger was an excellent manager but I feel he has lost his way, his methods are outdated and he's unable to manage or develop a winning team. I mean it's not even like we're losing to the likes of Man United or Man City in these cup competitions, we're going out to the Bradford's and Blackburn's of this world. It's totally unacceptable IMHO.

[Cripps_orig]

Wenger is totally in tune with the board in selling our best players. He is the one who went to the board and told them to lower the asking price for Cesc after all and if he's the one Ferguson phoned to get RVP who if reports are true was having a change of heart after seeing Podolski and Cazorla join but Wenger told him to go.

Board aren't innocent but Wenger is our biggest problem

[Özim]

I expected us to win but I'm not surprised we lost, it's no longer a surprise to see us lose.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

These things happen. Terrible result but we weren't going to win the FA Cup anyway so who cares??!!

Moyes is touted as the next Man U or Chelsea manager but his team couldn't even beat Oldham and are shittier than us in the league.
Brenton Rodgers and AVB are supposedly bright young things re-inventing the way football is played but they went out of both cups sooner than us.

Wenger is an excellent manager who is having to deal with a severe decline in the quality of player in his team. Sure, he bought them I hear you say but trying to run Arsenal at a profit when none of the other top 6 teams are doing so leaves him with an impossible task of trying to build a winning team. It's impossible.

I'm not really bothered if Wenger stays or goes but some of you are in for a shock when the same shite happens under a new manager. Nothing will change until the board goes.

i get the board argument but how can you explain this:

over the past 2 seasons we have seen:

1. players being played out of position (santos, ramsey, djourou)
2. no organisation
3. no desire or determination. a lack of motivation from players
4. awful signings
5. no tactics being employed towards opposition

if a manager came in and addressed these issues, which all fall under the responsibility of the mananger not the board, how would we not improve as a team? i know it sounds basic but its true. a man with half a brain cell would see that the basics are being ignored and would try to correct them.

the problem with wenger is that he's way too stubborn. he put together the invincibles, the best attacking team this country has ever seen, so who are the media to tell him what to do, or the fans, or even fergie?

and for someone who's supposed to be working in a self-sustainable model, his choice of signings have been woeful. thats probably my biggest problem with him. rule number 1 on a tight budget: dont waste money. what have we done? wasted bucket loads.

[Marc Overmars]

Wenget got little bit stroppy in the pre-Bayern conference. :lol:

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Wenget got little bit stroppy in the pre-Bayern conference. :lol:

Heard he also denied the contract extension, so no doubt now that he'll be here for at least 20 years.

[GP]

Wenget got little bit stroppy in the pre-Bayern conference. :lol:

Dumbass reporters asking dumbass questions about shit they've made up.

I'd be a bit angry too.

[Cripps_orig]

Wenget got little bit stroppy in the pre-Bayern conference. :lol:

Just watched it. Good to see him squirm

[Grebbo]

Grebbo, whilst I admire your defence of Arsene unless you have solid facts to back up that Arsene is handicapped by funds a lot of what you say is just opinion.

Moreover, why should we compare ourselves to Everton or Liverpool? We should be comparing ourselves to the best, we have a state of the art stadium, state of the art training facilities, generate millions of pounds every year, have a healthy balance sheet (so we are told), we are in the top 10 in terms of wealth of clubs in Europe.

So tell me this, given the above information, why should we settle for second best? The whole point of moving to a new stadium was to compete with the best, to attract the best players, to turn the club into a European super power both on and off the field.

I can accept that we had to endure a period where investment in the team is minimal and team performance would most likely suffer which it has, but why is it still going on? I really don't understand why we're in a position where we have to gut the team of it's best players every single year without replacing these players adequately.

In my opinion Wenger was an excellent manager but I feel he has lost his way, his methods are outdated and he's unable to manage or develop a winning team. I mean it's not even like we're losing to the likes of Man United or Man City in these cup competitions, we're going out to the Bradford's and Blackburn's of this world. It's totally unacceptable IMHO.

Solid facts you ask for? We break even or make a profit every transfer window - surely that tells you the boards strategy?

Wenger is not a worse manager today than he was when he first came here. The competition is way harder now - it's as simple as that. He has worse players now because the next Vieira is not sitting in AC Milan's reserves and the next Henry is not on the bench at Juve. It's impossible to find gems for peanuts these days.

Do you think Arsene deliberately buys cheap shit players? Do you think he enjoys getting dogs abuse from his own fans? Of course he doesn't. He spends what the board gives him.

[Grebbo]

i get the board argument but how can you explain this:

over the past 2 seasons we have seen:

1. players being played out of position (santos, ramsey, djourou)

I don't think Wenger does this more than any other manager.

2. no organisation

So after 25yrs of top level football management Wenger is now disorganised?

3. no desire or determination. a lack of motivation from players

Players fault

4. awful signings

Our last 4 signings were Nacho, Podolski, Cazorla and Giroud. Not that awful. When you're forced to sign players for less than £15m you're never guaranteed quality

5. no tactics being employed towards opposition

I think 'no tactics' is a little harsh. By all accounts Wenger has paid more attention to the opposition in recent years as the opposition is often better than us (which wasn't the case in previous years)

[Grebbo]

BTW I'm neutral as to keeping or letting Wenger go.

Nothing will change. The glory years of Arsenal are long gone.

Liverpool hasn't won the league for 20+ years and we're in for a similar cycle.

I sure as hell don't want that grim faced David Moyes as our next manager that's for sure (who's won fuck all for Everton in the 10+ yrs he's been there and has never qualified for the Champions League).

[Kano]

Players fault for no motivation - compeltely theirs?

Why do you think managers exist - anywhere in the world, in any industry? If it was left down to the individual, most people would not rely on their desire but cut corners and do the bare minimum.

Funnily enough, exactly what we are seeing at the moment.

One of the key ingredients of being a football manager is being able to manage the players personalties and get the very best form out of them more often than not, which is what Wenger is not achieving anymore. The talent and understanding of the game can be taught to a degree but as Fergie himself says, the largest part of football management is dealing with the players and making sure they are mentally ready for every game.

Wenger doesn't do that.

[GP]

Top posts there, Grebbo.

Apart from the 'glory days are over' bit. I'm a bit more optimistic than that.

[Grebbo]

Players fault for no motivation - compeltely theirs?

Why do you think managers exist - anywhere in the world, in any industry? If it was left down to the individual, most people would not rely on their desire but cut corners and do the bare minimum.

Funnily enough, exactly what we are seeing at the moment.

One of the key ingredients of being a football manager is being able to manage the players personalties and get the very best form out of them more often than not, which is what Wenger is not achieving anymore. The talent and understanding of the game can be taught to a degree but as Fergie himself says, the largest part of football management is dealing with the players and making sure they are mentally ready for every game.

Wenger doesn't do that.

Yes, completely the players fault.

Top players motivate themselves. The problem is we have one truly top player in our entire squad (Jack) and the top teams have many more.

Motivation isn't the problem. Quality of player is the problem.

There's no point bringing Fergie into this argument as he's a one off and has a MUCH better squad of players than us. Look at Mourinho - the self proclaimed special needs one - his Madrid team is third in a two team league, 15 points behind first place and he has some phenomenal players including the second best in the world. He must be the world's worst manager.

[SayNoMore]

1. players being played out of position (santos, ramsey, djourou)

I don't think Wenger does this more than any other manager.

2. no organisation

So after 25yrs of top level football management Wenger is now disorganised?

3. no desire or determination. a lack of motivation from players

Players fault

4. awful signings

Our last 4 signings were Nacho, Podolski, Cazorla and Giroud. Not that awful. When you're forced to sign players for less than £15m you're never guaranteed quality

5. no tactics being employed towards opposition

I think 'no tactics' is a little harsh. By all accounts Wenger has paid more attention to the opposition in recent years as the opposition is often better than us (which wasn't the case in previous years)

1.Err yes he does, he does it all the timeat the teams expense, how blinkered can you be?
2. Again sorry to be the bearer of bad news, he could be in the game for 50 years, doesnt condone simply football organisation that a sunday league team is capable of. No excuse that he cant even get the basics right.
3.LOL if its the players fault, it is the manager who motivates and man MANAGES the team, it is his responsibility to get the team pumped up and winning games. SAF wins the league every year through simple man management skills, it is this point which differentiates the SAF with the AW.
4. If we didnt keep stripping the club of key assets and players then maybe you might have a point. Very few times does Wenger buy to strengthen, he buys to replace so if he sells our best players they need to be replaced with top quality, not mediocrity.
5. Your so wrong and so naive to think Wenger employs proper and detailed tactics. He tells them to play their game and if did give them proper tactics we would see instantly.

If you want to defend Wenger do so, but stop excusing the glaring and basic errors hes been committing for the last 6 years, its boring to read and boring to listen to.

[Kano]

Yes, completely the players fault.

Top players motivate themselves. The problem is we have one truly top player in our entire squad (Jack) and the top teams have many more.

Motivation isn't the problem. Quality of player is the problem.

There's no point bringing Fergie into this argument as he's a one off and has a MUCH better squad of players than us. Look at Mourinho - the self proclaimed special needs one - his Madrid team is third in a two team league, 15 points behind first place and he has some phenomenal players including the second best in the world. He must be the world's worst manager.
we don't have top players, due to wenger, so with that in mind, he has to compensate.

personally, i'd go with fergie's point of view on this one and from years of working and seeing how people react as soon as the manager turns his back, i'd say he's spot on. a managers job is to motivate his team and keep them working hard. this has nothing to do with fergie being far superior because he is talking about what the requirements for the job - not how good he is at it.

so you pick one season out of how many for maureen. how many has this been dragging on with wenger? how many seasons with the same old thing, never addressed? stop being dramatic, because it undermines your argument even further.

[Grebbo]

1.Err yes he does, he does it all the timeat the teams expense, how blinkered can you be?
2. Again sorry to be the bearer of bad news, he could be in the game for 50 years, doesnt condone simply football organisation that a sunday league team is capable of. No excuse that he cant even get the basics right.
3.LOL if its the players fault, it is the manager who motivates and man MANAGES the team, it is his responsibility to get the team pumped up and winning games. SAF wins the league every year through simple man management skills, it is this point which differentiates the SAF with the AW.
4. If we didnt keep stripping the club of key assets and players then maybe you might have a point. Very few times does Wenger buy to strengthen, he buys to replace so if he sells our best players they need to be replaced with top quality, not mediocrity.
5. Your so wrong and so naive to think Wenger employs proper and detailed tactics. He tells them to play their game and if did give them proper tactics we would see instantly.

If you want to defend Wenger do so, but stop excusing the glaring and basic errors hes been committing for the last 6 years, its boring to read and boring to listen to.

I can't be arsed to reply. I'm sure you're right.

Just one thing...


SAF wins the league every year through simple man management skills, it is this point which differentiates the SAF with the AW

This is absolutely not why SAF wins the league almost every year. Man U win because they have the best squad. If you can't see this then you're severely underestimating how good Manure's squad is.

[SayNoMore]

Well your wrong. Not every team has top players and MU have probably 1 top player, the rest are piss poor and dont deserve to be runaway leaders. SAF is different? Look at everton, see what they are achieving with their squad. Theres no point bringing SAF into discussion because he disproves your point straight away, lets see you become boss of your company and expecting your employees to be at the top of their game without motivating them? Good luck. And Lastly, the quality of player is NOT the problem. We have had players like Ade, Nasri, RVP, Cesc, so were they all shit as well? Quality is 50 percent mentality is the other 50% and we will never win anything under Wenger even when we deserve to because he has instilled such a weak mentality with absolutely no ambition.

[SayNoMore]

Are you seriously saying MANU have a better squad than Man city and chelsea? Oh god

[Marc Overmars]

I don't think I can believe United have the best squad, best attack certainly but that was only made clear when RVC joined.

[Grebbo]

we don't have top players, due to wenger, so with that in mind, he has to compensate.

personally, i'd go with fergie's point of view on this one and from years of working and seeing how people react as soon as the manager turns his back, i'd say he's spot on. this has nothing to do with fergie being far superior because he is talking about what the requirements for the job - not how good he is at it.

so you pick one season out of how many for maureen. how many has this been dragging on with wenger? how many seasons with the same old thing, never addressed? stop being dramatic, because it undermines your argument even further.

The very simple truth is we're not competing for titles because we don't have top players. You say the same in your post. The only difference is you blame Wenger and I blame the board.

Wenger has proven that he can win things with top players. That's a fact. The board have proven they're ****s. To me it's a non debate but so be it.

Yes, we should have beaten Blackburn and Bradford in the cups with our squad but shit happens in the cups. The mighty SAF hasn't won the FA Cup for 10 years and got knocked out to Leeds a couple of seasons ago.

I'm hardly being dramatic. I've stated that I couldn't care less if Wenger stays or goes. We're not going to win with or without him.

[Grebbo]

Are you seriously saying MANU have a better squad than Man city and chelsea? Oh god

Yes, absolutely.

[Grebbo]

I don't think I can believe United have the best squad, best attack certainly but that was only made clear when RVC joined.

Who has a better defence than Man U then?

[SayNoMore]

What a stupid point then.

[Grebbo]

Well your wrong. Not every team has top players and MU have probably 1 top player, the rest are piss poor and dont deserve to be runaway leaders.

Stopped reading there. You're even more deluded than me.

[SayNoMore]

At least you know your deluded and cant back up your WUM points.

[Marc Overmars]

Who has a better defence than Man U then?

A few teams if you want to take the league table at face value. :shrug:

[Grebbo]

At least you know your deluded and cant back up your WUM points.

Yeah

[Kano]

The very simple truth is we're not competing for titles because we don't have top players. You say the same in your post. The only difference is you blame Wenger and I blame the board.

Wenger has proven that he can win things with top players. That's a fact. The board have proven they're ****s. To me it's a non debate but so be it.

Yes, we should have beaten Blackburn and Bradford in the cups with our squad but shit happens in the cups. The mighty SAF hasn't won the FA Cup for 10 years and got knocked out to Leeds a couple of seasons ago.

I'm hardly being dramatic. I've stated that I couldn't care less if Wenger stays or goes. We're not going to win with or without him.
wenger sanctioned their sales. then decided that diaby would suffice as a replacement for song, for example. or giroud is as good rvp - very few players are as good as rvp but there are others better than giroud who could be our main striker.

the problems in the team have nothing to do with the board. kroenke doesn't instruct the defensive line as far as i know.

winning isn't the be all and end all here, that's too simplistic. let's get some pride back into our performances and go from there but as long as wenger sticks around, we won't even get that.

[Grebbo]

A few teams if you want to take the league table at face value. :shrug:

True but I don't think they have a worse defence than City or Chelsea.

People underestimate how good Man U's squad is.

[Niall_Quinn]

the problems in the team have nothing to do with the board

Not the team selection, but certainly the players from which to make that team selection. To be honest I'm still stuck at the sale of RvP. I'll catch up with everything that has happened since then and I'll probably be angry about it. Or maybe I won't care at all.

In the end, Arsenal has turned into a joke club that is staffed by non-competitors who believe finishing 4th is a win. And the only reason they accept this is because that 4th place spot represents more money to go with the player sales, the increasing sponsorship deals, the world record ticket prices and the revenues from other, non-football related wheeler-dealing and interest bearing investments.

We support a gentleman's investment house.

[Power n Glory]

Not the team selection, but certainly the players from which to make that team selection. To be honest I'm still stuck at the sale of RvP. I'll catch up with everything that has happened since then and I'll probably be angry about it. Or maybe I won't care at all.

In the end, Arsenal has turned into a joke club that is staffed by non-competitors who believe finishing 4th is a win. And the only reason they accept this is because that 4th place spot represents more money to go with the player sales, the increasing sponsorship deals, the world record ticket prices and the revenues from other, non-football related wheeler-dealing and interest bearing investments.

We support a gentleman's investment house.

But don’t you find it odd that we used to be able to field a team that consisted of players like Almunia, Senderos, Djourou, Denilson, Bendy, Merida, Vela, Bentley…etc and we’d play Premiership teams off in a cup game. What’s happened? Those kids we played back then aren’t better than the guys we have in our squad now are they? Look where most of those guys are now.

[fakeyank]

wenger sanctioned their sales. then decided that diaby would suffice as a replacement for song, for example. or giroud is as good rvp - very few players are as good as rvp but there are others better than giroud who could be our main striker.

the problems in the team have nothing to do with the board. kroenke doesn't instruct the defensive line as far as i know.

winning isn't the be all and end all here, that's too simplistic. let's get some pride back into our performances and go from there but as long as wenger sticks around, we won't even get that.

:gp:

Having one shot on target against Swansea at home in the league, is not the boards fault.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

1. players being played out of position (santos, ramsey, djourou)

I don't think Wenger does this more than any other manager.

2. no organisation

So after 25yrs of top level football management Wenger is now disorganised?

3. no desire or determination. a lack of motivation from players

Players fault

4. awful signings

Our last 4 signings were Nacho, Podolski, Cazorla and Giroud. Not that awful. When you're forced to sign players for less than £15m you're never guaranteed quality

5. no tactics being employed towards opposition

I think 'no tactics' is a little harsh. By all accounts Wenger has paid more attention to the opposition in recent years as the opposition is often better than us (which wasn't the case in previous years)

oh come off it, why the denial? why do we have to go down this route and pretend like its the players fault?

1. we play players out of position and have been for years. eboue at right wing, djourou at right back, vermaelen at left back (played there at ajax but for us he's a centre half), bendtner at right wing, ramsey at right wing, santos at left wing, even denilson on the wing at one point. i know this may happen a few times at every club especially if there's a volume of injuries, but it seems to happen at our club more than others. we shouldnt be constantly playing players out of position and the simple explanation to that is the lack of cover which forces us to do so. and if it isnt injuries its wengers stubborness. why was ramsey played on the wing at the start of the season? there was absolutely no reason to play ramsey on the right wing for the first half of the season because we had walcott, chambo, gervinho etc who could have all played there. ramseys best position is and always will be in the middle but wenger played him on the flank and it cost us so many points. we saw a level of abuse towards ramsey we havent seen for years towards an arsenal player. now he's been put back in the middle and he's been doing alright again.

2. what kind of argument is that? how does the number of years in football correlate to organisation? its plainly obvious our defence does little/no work on the training ground. why do we have to pretend like they do all of a sudden? if they do then its even worse because they turn into a bunch of clowns on a saturday afternoon. if we are indeed training and drilling that defence and still performing like a circus on saturdays then wengers job is without doubt untenable. he needs to leave right now. you just shouldnt be performing like that if you are drilling and organising the defence. there seems to be no understanding, no shape and no cover. we've gone through years of the team having any real organisation or shape so why are you suddenly pretending like this is a new problem? we saw an improvement at the beginning of the season but its gone tits up again. this wont mean much on a forum but my friend who's been an ST holder for 15 years said after the stoke game 'that stoke defence is not better than ours but it looks like it doesnt it. its just clear that they drill and organise the defence every single day on the training pitch until they perform like a unit. we on the other hand clearly dont'. thats an ST holder of over 20 years saying that, someone who may i add is a stern believer in wenger still, basically telling us that its obvious from the stands that we're not doing defensive drills.

i remember reading quotes from cesc and clichy about how surprised they were at the level and intensity of training at other clubs when they left. it doesnt have much to do with the defence but you have to wonder why they even mention things like that when they leave. what do we exactly do in training?

3. once again you're speaking as if its a utopian world; a world where players do the talking, players do the managing and players pick the team. a world where the manager is absorbed from any real responsibility. well it isnt. if its the players who should be doing all of that, why are we paying someone £7m a year to do it? even more, why are there managers? the buck stops with the manager and perhaps if the manager was on top of everything we'd see players not slacking and putting a shift in for once.

4. i dont get this argument either, people saying 'hes forced to spend on cheaper players and when you buy in the lower end of the market there will be more flops as there are more risks'. how much did pires cost? freddie? vieira? henry? lauren? all were under £10m but none were a shower of shit like the recent crop. this idea that wenger used to spend big but has now been restrained to the lower end of the market is a load of rubbish. he's always bought in the bargain basement but the recent buys have just been awful. no excuses.

5. we play 4-3-3 whether its barca or bradford. when was the last time we went somewhere and played a 4-5-1? i cant personally remember. we used to go old trafford and stick 5 men in midfield, now we go and pretend they're yeovil by sticking 3 in the middle and 3 up top. no wonder we get ripped apart.

im at work so ill be slow in replying but im interested in what you have to say.

[Niall_Quinn]

But don’t you find it odd that we used to be able to field a team that consisted of players like Almunia, Senderos, Djourou, Denilson, Bendy, Merida, Vela, Bentley…etc and we’d play Premiership teams off in a cup game. What’s happened? Those kids we played back then aren’t better than the guys we have in our squad now are they? Look where most of those guys are now.

It's an ever descending death spiral. Those players you mention grew up with genuine world class quality around them in the shape of Henry, Fabregas, RvP, etc. When the players see quality like that head out the door it's not exactly going to fill them with belief. They surely know as well as we do what this club has become. The motivation and confidence has been burning out for a long time. That is down to the manager but it is also down to the board. If the board hasn't grasped the fact we have been short of the quality that could really make a difference they should be shot. And if it's true they simply get led by the nose by Wenger (which I don't believe for a second) they should be shot, resuscitated and shot again. These guys know how to take but have you noticed them giving anything back? Or intervening in the very evident problems at this club?

[Niall_Quinn]

:gp:

Having one shot on target against Swansea at home in the league, is not the boards fault.

No. But having no RvP so we could have more than one shot IS their fault. To what degree we can't be certain. They talk a good game on the money front but we never see any of it, do we?

[Cripps_orig]

No. But having no RvP so we could have more than one shot IS their fault. To what degree we can't be certain. They talk a good game on the money front but we never see any of it, do we?

It was Wengers decision to sell RVP

[Power n Glory]

It's an ever descending death spiral. Those players you mention grew up with genuine world class quality around them in the shape of Henry, Fabregas, RvP, etc. When the players see quality like that head out the door it's not exactly going to fill them with belief. They surely know as well as we do what this club has become. The motivation and confidence has been burning out for a long time. That is down to the manager but it is also down to the board. If the board hasn't grasped the fact we have been short of the quality that could really make a difference they should be shot. And if it's true they simply get led by the nose by Wenger (which I don't believe for a second) they should be shot, resuscitated and shot again. These guys know how to take but have you noticed them giving anything back? Or intervening in the very evident problems at this club?

So is that down to former players motivating the squad? What is the role of Wenger if he can't even motivate his team to take a game seriously? What sort I message is he sending out when he seems fourth more of an achievement then the league cups?

[Özim]

The argument that Wenger just sits there helplessly as his best players are sold off one by one is ludicrous IMO, if that was the case why would any manager with any self respect stay when the board undermined them all the time? There is the case that they'd stay because of money (7 million notes a year) but once again you can't respect that.

If Wenger wasn't open to seeing those players leave he'd have been gone, he's always maintained from the early days that he has complete freedom at this club and that is something he loves....with players like RVP we forced ourselves into a corner of course, contract running down.....sell him and get something or keep him and lose him for nothing.....Wenger the economist no doubt saw the logic in selling him when it was clear a new contract wasn't feasible.

Cesc well he asked the club to knock the price down and let him go, well done there.....the board respect his opinion and he and the board work along the same lines, make money, sell players when it's no feasible to keep them for one reason or another.

[Power n Glory]

The argument that Wenger just sits there helplessly as his best players are sold off one by one is ludicrous IMO, if that was the case why would any manager with any self respect stay when the board undermined them all the time? There is the case that they'd stay because of money (7 million notes a year) but once again you can't respect that.

If Wenger wasn't open to seeing those players leave he'd have been gone, he's always maintained from the early days that he has complete freedom at this club and that is something he loves....with players like RVP we forced ourselves into a corner of course, contract running down.....sell him and get something or keep him and lose him for nothing.....Wenger the economist no doubt saw the logic in selling him when it was clear a new contract wasn't feasible.

Cesc well he asked the club to knock the price down and let him go, well done there.....the board respect his opinion and he and the board work along the same lines, make money, sell players when it's no feasible to keep them for one reason or another.

If people want to believe that he's powerless then so be it. What more needs to be seen or said to convincethem them. Look at the press conference today and Wenger's comments about everyone being an expert and superficial analysis. Exit such scathing criticism of anyone without real football credentials, does anyone really believe he'd allow someone like Stan Kronke, an American with no knowledge of football, tell him how to run his squad l and who to buy or sell? Does anyone really think Wenger would allow that sort of intrusion into his affairs?

We really need to move on from this discussion.

[Niall_Quinn]

It was Wengers decision to sell RVP

No, it was RvP's decision to leave. Your story about Wenger wanting to sell him to Utd is bullshit. From what little escapes the secret halls the prices was run on Utd in an attempt to dissuade them. That's why Ferguson lost his rag.

[Niall_Quinn]

So is that down to former players motivating the squad? What is the role of Wenger if he can't even motivate his team to take a game seriously? What sort I message is he sending out when he seems fourth more of an achievement then the league cups?

Nope, didn't say that. Didn't say anything even close to that. I said it must be demotivating to see so much quality drain away.

[Cripps_orig]

No, it was RvP's decision to leave. Your story about Wenger wanting to sell him to Utd is bullshit. From what little escapes the secret halls the prices was run on Utd in an attempt to dissuade them. That's why Ferguson lost his rag.


It is understood Van Persie was encouraged by the arrivals of Germany forward Lukas Podolski, France striker Olivier Giroud and Spain midfielder Cazorla - to the point where he was open to the idea of staying with or without a new contract.
But Wenger pulled him aside shortly before Sunday's friendly victory over Cologne, told him he would be sold if a deal could be reached and informed the Dutchman he was no longer part of his plans.

Formal discussions between Arsenal and United began immediately, with Gazidis and United chief executive David Gill agreeing a fee of £22.5m on Tuesday, only for it to be vetoed by Wenger as he held out for £25m.
On Wednesday morning, United boss Sir Alex Ferguson called Wenger to offer £23m and Wenger quoted him £24m.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19179833

/thread

[Kano]

Not the team selection, but certainly the players from which to make that team selection. To be honest I'm still stuck at the sale of RvP. I'll catch up with everything that has happened since then and I'll probably be angry about it. Or maybe I won't care at all.

In the end, Arsenal has turned into a joke club that is staffed by non-competitors who believe finishing 4th is a win. And the only reason they accept this is because that 4th place spot represents more money to go with the player sales, the increasing sponsorship deals, the world record ticket prices and the revenues from other, non-football related wheeler-dealing and interest bearing investments.

We support a gentleman's investment house.
even that i would dispute. the song situation is the most recent example. the first choice replacement was vertonghen, who didn't want to play as CM. so who was next on the list? diaby. that's it. far from an extensive list. of course they could've have been others who he couldn't get but surely you agree, anyone, anything, would've been better than relying on a man whose career ended five years ago.

the rvp thing, fine he went. so let's break our balls for a replacement. not giroud or walcott but a real time, big fucking daddy who loves goals. he has sat next to the ceo for the past two seasons whilst the message of money being available is preached, so there is no issue bar his own decisions not to spend it. if he is just being complicit with the message, then in many ways that is even worse and degrades his once lofty reputation further.

i would love none of this to be true but unfortunately it is. it truly, sadly is the case. maybe it will all go tits up if he/when he goes but i've got to the point where i am so desperate for a change, something different, anything, that i no longer care. let's just do it. i'd rather lose it all than meander around wandering what could've been if only i had taken that chance.

[Power n Glory]

Nope, didn't say that. Didn't say anything even close to that. I said it must be demotivating to see so much quality drain away.

I can understand not wanting to be a part of the club and heads turning in the summer or a prolonged period of bad form from a rebel player but these sort on performances have no pattern to them and it's a host of players that are often guilty. Something is wrong with our preparation for these games. We can show good spirit in one game and then put in half shift the next. Reminds me of the last time Wenger took a bashing in the press and the team upped the pace and effort by a country mile. The next game they were bloody coasting again and then again in the next game!

[Newguy]

I can understand not wanting to be a part of the club and heads turning in the summer or a prolonged period of bad form from a rebel player but these sort on performances have no pattern to them and it's a host of players that are often guilty. Something is wrong with our preparation for these games. We can show good spirit in one game and then put in half shift the next. Reminds me of the last time Wenger took a bashing in the press and the team upped the pace and effort by a country mile. The next game they were bloody coasting again and then again in the next game!

I think it comes down to who's playing, bottom line is that a lot of these players dont have the drive or determination to be better. You know what you will get that extra push with certain players (finding it difficult to name those players i speak LOL )....but basically Wenger has to play his 1st 11 every time. He cant start a match made up of the guys getting 10-20 mins here and there and expect to breeze past the opposition.

The same team that fought out those 1-nil victories should have continued starting in all comps (barring any injuries) you need your core guys. Messi doesn't get rested, Ronaldo doesn't get rested... it's no surprise to me that a team with Gervinho, OX, Giroud, Diaby, Rosicky and Arteta struggled for goals and direction...who the fuck was leading??? there was too many bit part players in the mix. OX and Rosicky hardly get minutes these days (OX is way off form). Gervinho is a joke, Diaby is basically just trying to stay fit this season, do you think he's going to risk injury by pushing his body to the limit? Giroud needs service, he needs Podolski and Walcott on the flanks. Wenger has too much faith in the squad that he's assembled.

Players were talking about the lack of complacency before the game, Wenger mentioned it in his press conference, this has to get relayed to the squad in training, it has to. TBH even if it didnt any competitive sportsperson would understand the dangers of over confidence/complacency, but the key word is competitive, guys like Diaby and Gervinho dont come across as the competitive-hate-to-lose type of players. Ox and Rosicky again dont get enough minutes, Arteta isnt going to push team forward like Jack is...

Wenger fucked up with the team selection and ultimately has filled his side with too many submissive do as your told im just happy to be here getting my check for playing football characters.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19179833

/thread

Nowhere does it say Wenger wanted to sell RvP. Neither does it say it was his decision, what it says (and we have to believe the media on this btw) was he told RvP he was no longer part of his plans. I guess that's what happens when a player says he's leaving. It also says (again media speculation): "On Wednesday morning, United boss Sir Alex Ferguson called Wenger to offer £23m and Wenger quoted him £21m."

Are you seriously trying to say Wenger wanted shot of RvP? That's taking your campaign too far. I made the last bit up, but you can use it if you like.