Middle East consortium 'to bid for Arsenal'

[Dennis Bendtner]

Arsenal poised to be subjected to £1.5bn takeover bid from Middle East consortium within the next few weeks

The world’s biggest ever bid for a football club, dwarfing the £800 million paid by the Glazers for Manchester United, will be backed by funds from Qatar and the United Arab Emirates.

The group do not want their identities made public yet but a bid source told Telegraph Sport the intention is to buy out Arsenal’s American owner, Stan Kroenke, whose perceived weak stewardship of the club has also been called into question by frustrated supporter groups.

The cash offer, which is more than twice the amount at which Arsenal were valued two years ago, will be for 100 per cent of the club, and if successful would wipe out debts that stand at around £250 million according to the last full year’s financial results.

According to a bid source, there would be substantial transfer funds made available to transform the club into a major force in European and world football.

There would also be a pledge to reduce ticket prices at the Emirates Stadium — currently among the highest in the world — as well as an attempt to recreate “some of the feel of the old North Bank” at Highbury.

The bid team has noted the damage caused by Kroenke, who owns two-thirds of the club, refusing to engage with Uzbek billionaire Alisher Usmanov, who owns 29.96 per cent.

The bidders would like to unite the ownership, putting all the shares together in one fund. The offer will be for the full 62,217 shares which have been issued, but effectively it will be to buy out Kroenke, in the first instance, paying around £830 million for his 66.83 per cent shareholding (41,581). The offer equates to around £20,000 per share.

The deal would provide the American with an approximate profit of £400 million given the majority owner is believed to have paid around £430 million to build his stake in the club since he first became involved in 2007. When Kroenke made his mandatory cash offer for Arsenal in April 2011, buying up the stakes owned by

Danny Fiszman and Lady Nina Bracewell-Smith, it valued the club at £731 million.
A meeting has already been requested with the American to discuss the proposed offer. The seriousness of the bid is reinforced by the recent successful takeovers of Manchester City and Paris St-Germain by Middle East backers.

It is unlikely Usmanov will want to sell his shareholding, given his “dream” of taking control of Arsenal himself, but the Middle East consortium believes it will be able to work with the billionaire, who does not currently have a seat on the board and who has been frustrated in his attempts to get more involved.

Any takeover would inevitably raise questions over the future of manager Arsène Wenger, although the Frenchman is understood to be highly-regarded by the consortium They do not want to lose his football knowledge and want him to remain at the club.

But they are well aware that the last trophy won was the 2005 FA Cup and that Arsenal have become less of a rival to the Premier League's top clubs. They believe that the club have settled for relative mediocrity.

Arsenal travel on Sunday to north London rivals Tottenham with the club in a desperate fight to finish in the top four of the Premier League and qualify for next season’s Champions League. Arsenal currently lie in fifth place, four points behind their neighbours.

Despite protestations to the contrary, failure to qualify for the Champions League would undoubtedly have serious ramifications for Arsenal, who have been in Europe’s premier club competition for the past 16 years under Wenger.

A bid source told Telegraph Sport: “Arsenal is at a pivotal position at the moment. The fear is that the club is facing a cycle of decline like Liverpool. From our point of view it is the perfect moment to make this bid because at this moment in time you can still genuinely justify this extraordinary valuation on the club.

“We will not bid for Arsenal if they go into decline. Kroenke and Usmanov will not get this kind of valuation if Arsenal do not succeed and will not get this kind of valuation ever again.

“We think that bidding now is the key because it is going to give every shareholder maximum value. We are giving them peak valuation.

“The amount of capital required to pump into Arsenal to make it competitive within England, Europe and the world means that the valuation cannot go any higher.”

It makes the prospect of a gargantuan bid to buy the club all the more tantalising for frustrated Arsenal supporters.

“No big club can go eight years without winning anything,” the source added. “No manager of a big club, not even Sir Alex Ferguson, would have survived eight years without winning.” It is not an unreasonable statement.

Whether Wenger would voluntarily stay and work under a new regime is another question. Should a bid prove successful, Wenger would be in an awkward position, having previously criticised clubs with wealthy owners, accusing them of “financial doping”, although he has strong links with Paris St-Germain who, of course, also have Qatari owners.

Wenger’s current contract runs until June 2014 and it is understood that as things stand he has no intention of quitting even if Arsenal finish outside the top four, although he has faced growing calls to go.

The proposed new owners claim they are serious in their desire to turn Arsenal into a force again and also to do it in the right way. They say they do not want to acquire the club to make money but to invest.

The bid group believe that the ownership of Kroenke and his son and heir, Josh, has been at the heart of the club’s lack of competitiveness. They have also identified a lack of experience in football as a significant barrier to success.

“The biggest problem with Arsenal is that it has no owner, no face and there is no one to report to,” the bid source claimed. “The management of the club at every level is not put under scrutiny and does not have to report to anyone.”

The inference is that neither Kroenke nor his son has a feel for Arsenal — a claim which has been lent weight by the former’s absence from the Emirates Stadium — and that the current board lacks strength and leadership. Chief executive Ivan Gazidis has been criticised for being too deferential towards Wenger, who enjoys a huge amount of control at Arsenal.

The frustration over Kroenke’s failure to attend games and his lack of public communication has been frequently vented by supporters, who have criticised him at successive annual meetings. Kroenke does not like being called “Silent Stan” but he has lived up to the nickname.

Arsenal currently have a clear, self-sustaining structure, rejecting the benefactor model, with Wenger, the board and majority owner believing their approach will eventually succeed, especially with the incoming Uefa Financial Fair Play rules.

But there are genuine fears among fans that Arsenal are simply slipping away and becoming less competitive.

If successful, the bid would almost certainly take Arsenal to another level. The prospective owners claim their intention is to turn Arsenal into a major force in European football; one that will compete with Manchester United and Manchester City for the Premier League title and with Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and PSG in the Champions League.

Given the nature and structure of the funding, the bidders say they are confident they will still be able to comply with FFP.

It is understood that they wish to maintain a degree of stability at the club, despite the upheaval of a takeover, although there would be a new board and, in all probability, a new chief executive as it is understood that Gazidis would be unlikely to be retained.

The bid team regard Arsenal as one of the great clubs of European football but also one that is no longer punching its weight and is in danger of falling behind.

Arsenal’s failure to hang on to their top talent has been a source of major unease at the club. Losing Holland international striker Robin van Persie — who left for Manchester United criticising a lack of ambition – Spain international Cesc Fabregas and France international Samir Nasri all hit hard.

The prospective owners claim there would be a firm commitment to a model of developing and keeping young players but also, and as a priority, to strengthening the squad so that those players, such as Jack Wilshere, have no reason to leave in the future.

Wenger believes he has a core of a squad that can challenge but this is not a universally-held opinion with doubts over the strength of the spine of the team.

Even his most fervent supporters struggle to make a case that Wenger is on the verge of creating another great team or that the squad has depth and quality to compete despite a high wage bill.

The Middle East consortium claim to sympathise with Arsenal supporters and their contention that many of them have been priced out of following their club.

Supporters groups have already warned that generations of fans could be lost.

Ticket prices, among the highest in the world and an increasingly contentious issue, will be reduced, the bid source said, and there will be an attempt to recreate “some of the feel of the old North Bank” at Highbury within the Emirates Stadium.

The bid source added there was a real desire to “bring back some of the true supporters” who have been priced out or become disillusioned.

The disillusionment is undoubtedly there. Cup defeats to Bradford City and Blackburn Rovers heightened that sense as did the humiliating Champions League 3-1 defeat to Bayern Munich at the Emirates a fortnight ago, when the German side played with a verve and tempo Arsenal no longer recognise.

Finishing outside the top four would compound it even more especially if the proposed takeover is rejected. That would further increase the pressure on Kroenke in particular.

The BS is strong in this one, but may as well post it as it's not like any big games are happenni...oh.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/9904640/Arsenal-poised-to-be-subjected-to-1.5bn-takeover-bid-from-Middle-East-consortium-within-the-next-few-weeks.html

[Cripps_orig]

Please make this happen

[Syn]

I, for one, welcome our new insect overlards.

[cricketsi]

Please make this happen

Ummm... fuck no.

[Cripps_orig]

Ummm... fuck no.

Why not? I'd much rather have our Arsenal back than the shite we have now

[Cripps_orig]

Ummm... fuck no.

Why not? I'd much rather have our Arsenal back than the shite we have now

[GP]

Ummm... fuck no.

:gp:

They can launder their dirty money elsewhere.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Gotta admit I tl;dr to this when pasting it in. But, the Middle East bringing back the North Bank? :haha:

This is TEG on a WUM.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

wont happen but wish it did.

the bit about reducing ticket prices is bs though. if they spend 1.5bn the quickest and easiest way of getting a return is through ticket price increases. if people think they're gonna invest 1.5bn and reduce ticket prices to make their roi even longer then they're deluded.

and :lol: at those who are trying to take a moral high ground by declaring their disgust at a potential take over. you'll be jumping with joy if we win the premier league and european cup in the next 5 years so dont even try and pretend you dont want 'dirty oil money' here :haha: football turned for the worst and there's no going back so get over it.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Piles of holes in this story that don't make sense. But what does make sense in football?

Nobody is bringing back 'our Arsenal'. That Arsenal is gone and it aint coming back.

If this happens we are just another Middle East and/or Oligarch penis extension as opposed to being Kronke's flacid viagra deprived cock.

Hoo-fucking-ray.

[WMUG]

Great, we're just gonna become another Chelsea/Man City, fake club with bought success.

[Injury Time]

An so that's where David Dein went too... :satan: is coming home.

[Power n Glory]

Hmmmm....not really that fussed who owns us. They seem keen on keeping Wenger so it would be interesting to see if much changed with new ownership. Not sure if they could pump much into the club with the FFP rules.

[Cripps_orig]

Great, we're just gonna become another Chelsea/Man City, fake club with bought success.
What's better, fake club with bought success or shite club with no success as we are now?

Its not ideal but football has changed. It's time Arsenal changed with it. If you can't beat them which we can't then join them

[Cripps_orig]

wont happen but wish it did.

the bit about reducing ticket prices is bs though. if they spend 1.5bn the quickest and easiest way of getting a return is through ticket price increases. if people think they're gonna invest 1.5bn and reduce ticket prices to make their roi even longer then they're deluded.

and :lol: at those who are trying to take a moral high ground by declaring their disgust at a potential take over. you'll be jumping with joy if we win the premier league and european cup in the next 5 years so dont even try and pretend you dont want 'dirty oil money' here :haha: football turned for the worst and there's no going back so get over it.
Pretty much

[Joker]

Hope it happens but I doubt it will. Most supporters sound as if they'd rather have Kroenke own the club than Arabs as well(which I don't understand tbh), so don't think it would go down well with a lot of the fans either.

[fakeyank]

I wonder what the point is of a takeover if FFP are coming in within the next 2 years. I think the story is BS but for me, I just want change at the club. Whatever we have out there is clearly not working, so I am down for Arabs or Indians or Pakistanis taking over, dont care!

[fakeyank]

Story is out on the Sun too, as 'exclusive' :lol:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4821553/Arsenal-takeover-Arab-investors-table-15BILLION-bid.html

[RomfordPele]

So kroenke's ready to sell up, and that's his price: £400m profit for doing precisely fuck all? Not bad.

Still, if it forces the nutty professor to stand aside then hell why not.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

I'm not a fan of this, in particular the "consortium" aspect of it. That's always a recipe for disaster and mismanagement.

If they were eager to purchase the club why hide behind an anonymous consortium? God knows what type of shady people could be in there. You only have to look at the likes of Portsmouth and Notts County to see some of the dodgy offshore consortiums who have sprung up, thrown a lot of money at the start, destroyed the stability and long term viability of the club and then done a runner after asset stripping the club.

Not that I would object that much to a takeover from another wealthy party who's prepared to at least increase investment in the club but it has to be someone out in the open, relatively well known and who's business history and finances can be publicly scrutinised.

Never thought I'd ever say this but I'd much rather keep Stan than this.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Fuck, we already won everything, barring the CL, the 'right way'. Nothing wrong if we could splash hoards of cash on players, buying a few trophies whilst at it.

Make it happen, you bastard sand dwellers.

[GP]

Fuck, we already won everything, barring the CL, the 'right way'. Nothing wrong if we could splash hoards of cash on players, buying a few trophies whilst at it.

Make it happen, you bastard sand dwellers.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jmNjlGuF7eI/R5jkw5FH5kI/AAAAAAAAAAQ/Y-IV_FiWrwE/s400/ANH_TuskenRaider_PD.jpg

[Özil's Panoramic View]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jmNjlGuF7eI/R5jkw5FH5kI/AAAAAAAAAAQ/Y-IV_FiWrwE/s400/ANH_TuskenRaider_PD.jpg

:haha:

Da fuqq is that?

Think I might have nightmares tonight.

[GP]

Please don't tell me you've never seen Star Wars.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Have seen every episode, tbh.

Been a while though.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

"@bbcsport_david: Not questioning Arsenal takeover story but Kroenke has absolutely no intention to sell, is adamant he's here for long-term #bbcfootball #afc"

Hope the old adage "every man has a price" will hold true here, else we're taking it up the arse for the long-term.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

:haha:

Da fuqq is that?

Think I might have nightmares tonight.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tusken_Raider :good:


Hope the old adage "every man has a price" will hold true here, else we're taking it up the arse for the long-term.

:unsure::unsure:


Hey you're perfectly entitled to do whatever you want to do in the privacy of your own home. We don't judge on this forum.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tusken_Raider :good:



:unsure::unsure:


Hey you're perfectly entitled to do whatever you want to do in the privacy of your own home. We don't judge on this forum.

:lol:

You're a funny chap, you know.

[GP]

Funny how?

[mastermind84]

I'll question it, its outright nonsense. Sounds like its probably from Usmanov's PR team.

I do not believe this story one bit. UAE and Qatari businessmen are rivals. They do not work together normally. Then putting an offer this big is insane. And running to the papers is a nonsense.

I do not believe this story one bit, but unfortunately its done it purpose which is make fans want Kroenke and co to leave, asap.

[milla]

I'll question it, its outright nonsense. Sounds like its probably from Usmanov's PR team.

I do not believe this story one bit. UAE and Qatari businessmen are rivals. They do not work together normally. Then putting an offer this big is insane. And running to the papers is a nonsense.

I do not believe this story one bit, but unfortunately its done it purpose which is make fans want Kroenke and co to leave, asap.

Many Qatari and UAE businesses are in the same bed now, especially after the ME property business collapsed in 2010.

[GP]

Crooks are crooks, no matter what dune they crawled out of.

[mastermind84]

Many Qatari and UAE businesses are in the same bed now
doubt it.

This story is crap to me, and only serves to rile up more anger against Kroenke and co.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

This sounds completely made up.

[Niall_Quinn]

Good one by Usmanov. Next he leaks Kroenke wouldn't sell and the fans will be up in arms. Only way anyone is investing 1.5bill is if that money needs urgent washing and they are happy to lose half of it in the process. Then you wait for the other shoe.

[Globalgunner]

Kroenke will sell. Why wouldnt he?. He is obviously only in it for money and who woulnt be happy with a 80% return on a 3yr investment.
True he doesnt have a track record of selling but then maybe noone has wanted any of his shitty franchises.

The sad part is that Arseanal do not need this investment in order to be much more competitive. We just need to stop wasting £50m each year on overpaying mediocre and non contributing players and staff AND we need a manager who actually wants to win things and has the acumen do do so. Not one who has found his personal Eldorado and is on a dream mission to nowhere.

[Letters]

What's better, fake club with bought success or shite club with no success as we are now?

If I had to pick one I'd say shite club with no success. Yes, of course I want us to be competitive but not like that.
I can't take any of City of Chelsea's 'success' seriously. I know a lot of their fans don't care how it's been achieved but they're idiots.
I do know some more discerning Chelsea fans who completely understand how they've won their trophies and aren't that impressed.
They won the CL and FA Cup last year, then sacked their manager :lol: Their fans have spent all season being pissed off about that.
They're a joke of a club, I don't want to go down that road.


Its not ideal but football has changed. It's time Arsenal changed with it. If you can't beat them which we can't then join them

I don't think those are the only two options. Even without a billionaire pumping money in we are one of the richest clubs in the world. We probably can't compete with City but we could definitely be doing a lot more to try. I'd be happy if we were doing that.

[Power n Glory]

If I had to pick one I'd say shite club with no success. Yes, of course I want us to be competitive but not like that.
I can't take any of City of Chelsea's 'success' seriously. I know a lot of their fans don't care how it's been achieved but they're idiots.
I do know some more discerning Chelsea fans who completely understand how they've won their trophies and aren't that impressed.
They won the CL and FA Cup last year, then sacked their manager :lol: Their fans have spent all season being pissed off about that.
They're a joke of a club, I don't want to go down that road.



I don't think those are the only two options. Even without a billionaire pumping money in we are one of the richest clubs in the world. We probably can't compete with City but we could definitely be doing a lot more to try. I'd be happy if we were doing that.

There not idiots on that basis. As said before, it's practically impossible for a small/medium sized club to break into Europe's elite purely by playing football.

[Letters]

There not idiots on that basis. As said before, it's practically impossible for a small/medium sized club to break into Europe's elite purely by playing football.
They're idiots if they can't see that all their trophies are entirely related (whether directly or indirectly) to a billionaire pumping money in and buying top players and managers till they blunder their way to the top. If you want Arsenal to achieve success that way then fair enough. I can't see the point. I don't care which billionaire's penis extension beat which other billionaire's to which trophy. Maybe it is the only way to the very top these days but football is the poorer for it.

[Marc Overmars]

I can't see us becoming a penis extension right now, not with the club so vocal and set up towards FFP. After that who knows, but the only thing that needs to happen now is for a football man at the top to ensure the club makes the most of the resources it generates, and to also put an end to the '4th place' culture at the club.

Abramovich is a bit of a **** but at least he's there at every Chelsea game and keeps the bar raised very high for the team to meet.

[Power n Glory]

They're idiots if they can't see that all their trophies are entirely related (whether directly or indirectly) to a billionaire pumping money in and buying top players and managers till they blunder their way to the top. If you want Arsenal to achieve success that way then fair enough. I can't see the point. I don't care which billionaire's penis extension beat which other billionaire's to which trophy. Maybe it is the only way to the very top these days but football is the poorer for it.

Most pay respect to Abramovich and can see that. But you seem blind to the fact that this has been the way of football for years now. It's fuelled by transfers and who can brings in the best players. Now that Man Utd aren't the only club with spending power in England, good coaching is making more of difference.

I also wouldn't be so quick to call other fans idiots when we this fleecing model that takes from the fans and puts very little back into the playing staff.

[Cripps_orig]

The Russian doesn't accept failure. Is that so wrong? Like MO says, he's there every game unlike our Stan who's in it just for the money. I'd rather have these Arabs or even Usmanov than Kroenke

[LDG]

Disgusted with the whole thing.

They can all fuck off.

What a sad state of affairs for our club and football in general :(

[RomfordPele]

It is pretty miserable stuff. Get rid of one parasite only to get an even bigger (and fatter) one clamping on. Grim.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Disgusted with the whole thing.

They can all fuck off.

What a sad state of affairs for our club and football in general :(

This.

[Joker]

If this consortium was American, would the opposition on here be so strong? It's as if Anglo Saxon business is the only acceptable form of business, and Arabs are immediately denounced as crooks, etc. I guess some forms of racism continue to be acceptable.

[PGFC]

Disgusted with the whole thing.

They can all fuck off.

What a sad state of affairs for our club and football in general :(


This :good:

[LDG]

If this consortium was American, would the opposition on here be so strong? It's as if Anglo Saxon business is the only acceptable form of business, and Arabs are immediately denounced as crooks, etc. I guess some forms of racism continue to be acceptable.

You truly are very stupid.

I'm apposed to all of the ****s.

[Dennis Bendtner]

The yank in charge now is very popular.

[Cripps_orig]

If this consortium was American, would the opposition on here be so strong? It's as if Anglo Saxon business is the only acceptable form of business, and Arabs are immediately denounced as crooks, etc. I guess some forms of racism continue to be acceptable.

Welcome to GW

I'm astonished with the fans lack of desire for us to improve. We all agree the current board are ****s and we want them out. This is the only way it's going to happen. A takeover. Be it these lot or someone else, it's the only way to get rid of the current lot.

Likewise we all want Wenger to change his ways or want him gone. Neither will happen with this board. It might with a new lot.

Sooner it happens the better. Us fans have gone through years of mockery. Time we gave some back

[Power n Glory]

If this consortium was American, would the opposition on here be so strong? It's as if Anglo Saxon business is the only acceptable form of business, and Arabs are immediately denounced as crooks, etc. I guess some forms of racism continue to be acceptable.

The damage is done and the club has already sold their soul so who we sell to now makes no difference.

[LDG]

Welcome to GW

I'm astonished with the fans lack of desire for us to improve. We all agree the current board are ****s and we want them out. This is the only way it's going to happen. A takeover. Be it these lot or someone else, it's the only way to get rid of the current lot.

Likewise we all want Wenger to change his ways or want him gone. Neither will happen with this board. It might with a new lot.

Sooner it happens the better. Us fans have gone through years of mockery. Time we gave some back

I just care for the long term future of the club. Not the short term league position.

They are all ****s. Pure and simple.

[GP]

I just care for the long term future of the club. Not the short term league position.

They are all ****s. Pure and simple.

RACIST!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

The yank in charge now is very popular.

I heard his real first name does in fact descend from Arabian heritage though. Obviously.

[LDG]

The damage is done and the club has already sold their soul so who we sell to now makes no difference.

:lol:

Of course it matters!

[Syn]

You are all being expertly trolled.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Time for Venky's to come home.

[Power n Glory]

:lol:

Of course it matters!

Why does it matter?

[Marc Overmars]

If we were to be successful under a free spending billionaire would we be churlish enough to book-end every celebratory thought by saying it's only come about because of the money?

[LDG]

Why does it matter?

Oh, ok. Let's just have any old **** take over the entire club.

Minor shit, that.

But it's ok. As long as we buy the title within two years, we can all be happy.

It matters to me who owns the club, as it seems pretty fucking onvious to me, that the arse will eventually fall out of football, and when everyone picks up the pieces, it would nice if we still had a club to support.

Therefore, whoever is the steward of the club, mist take massive care of where we go from here.

Of course it matters.

[Power n Glory]

If we were to be successful under a free spending billionaire would we be churlish enough to book-end every celebratory thought by saying it's only come about because of the money?

Most people are advocating that we spend the money we have in our war chest now or for one of our billionaire owners to chip in to help us win a title. What's the difference?

[LDG]

If we were to be successful under a free spending billionaire would we be churlish enough to book-end every celebratory thought by saying it's only come about because of the money?

I would. It would stink of shit.

[LDG]

Most people are advocating that we spend the money we have in our war chest now or for one of our billionaire owners to chip in to help us win a title. What's the difference?

We need to spend some money, yes. But within our means, and in a more ambitious way.

All most fans want is for us to maximise our resourses and at least try to do win. We are not doing that presently, and we are more than capable of doing so.

I don't want us to buy the title with "free" money. I would like my ticket money to go towards our success.

[Power n Glory]

Oh, ok. Let's just have any old **** take over the entire club.

Minor shit, that.

But it's ok. As long as we buy the title within two years, we can all be happy.

It matters to me who owns the club, as it seems pretty fucking onvious to me, that the arse will eventually fall out of football, and when everyone picks up the pieces, it would nice if we still had a club to support.

Therefore, whoever is the steward of the club, mist take massive care of where we go from here.

Of course it matters.

And you don't think we're already in the shit with Stan at the helm if he's juicing up the club to make a tidy profit? We've crossed the bridge already. Selling the club to Stan and Usamov has already set things up.

Unless Stan and co are serious about this self sustaining model and are willing to see things through despite it's unpopularity amongst fans, this was the only other option. There aren't many billionaires out there and most have no real connection to football. If you believe he's here to get his money's worth and then run, then this was always on the cards.

[Joker]

People who criticise City and Chelsea etc should realise that under the current arrangements it is impossible for one of the "lesser" clubs to actually break into the elite of football without some serious external investment. The way the league is structured and the rewards distributed (e.g. with UCL revenue) means that those at the top will always remain at the top. You can tell their supporters that they should accept their lot but they can easily counter that by saying we support a club that benefit from the current arrangement which is why we have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. I'm not denying that Chelsea and City supporters' opposition to FFP is motivated by self interest, but so is Gazidis' support for it. We stand to benefit from any policy that is designed to kick the ladder away from small/medium sized clubs aspiring to reach the top.

[Power n Glory]

We need to spend some money, yes. But within our means, and in a more ambitious way.

All most fans want is for us to maximise our resourses and at least try to do win. We are not doing that presently, and we are more than capable of doing so.

I don't want us to buy the title with "free" money. I would like my ticket money to go towards our success.

Then a change of ownership isn't the answer and just need a better skilled manager that can maybe inspire the current owners to adopt a more risky approach.

[Joker]

You truly are very stupid.

I'm apposed to all of the ****s.

Fair enough, but there are people on here who's immediate reaction to any story about Arab owners is to make references to them being crooks and sand dunes, which IMO is prejudiced.

[Xhaka Can’t]

If this consortium was American, would the opposition on here be so strong? It's as if Anglo Saxon business is the only acceptable form of business, and Arabs are immediately denounced as crooks, etc. I guess some forms of racism continue to be acceptable.

You do like to overplay the race card don't you?

If you can't see from what is being written about 'billionaire' playthings and not wanting to be part of that under any circumstances and not take that at face value without playing the card, that is a problem that rests solely with you.

[Syn]

If we were to be successful under a free spending billionaire would we churlish enough to book-end every celebratory thought by saying it's only come about because of the money?

Of course not. I want some trophies. Just some shiny, huge trophies. Who cares how they come? I just need them. You see, I've had a failure of a life and I absolutely need to piggyback on the success of my favourite sports team to compensate for that.

I probably won't celebrate it because I won't have any interest left. I'm just struggling to see the point of it. Even if we lose today, I doubt I'll care much. Watching more out of habit than any real enthusiasm. It's a pretty poor game at the top level but I'm struggling to find a sport to replace the void tbh. Need suggestions.

[Özim]

Please make this happen
:goodpost: Get rid of those planks on the board and Wenger and start again with the intention to compete!

[Marc Overmars]

We as Arsenal fans display the most resentment for modern day football, I'm interested as to how (or if) our support would change if we were to become something we've been so vocally against.

Football is heading in a direction where soon enough most of the top clubs will be backed this way, would that not in a sense make it a level playing field again?

[LDG]

And you don't think we're already in the shit with Stan at the helm if he's juicing up the club to make a tidy profit? We've crossed the bridge already. Selling the club to Stan and Usamov has already set things up.

Unless Stan and co are serious about this self sustaining model and are willing to see things through despite it's unpopularity amongst fans, this was the only other option. There aren't many billionaires out there and most have no real connection to football. If you believe he's here to get his money's worth and then run, then this was always on the cards.

Stan is a ****. Usmanov is a ****. They're all ****s. At least we are presently beholden to nobody but the bank. I'd prefer it that way, tbh.

Still matters to me who owns the club next though.

[Joker]

You do like to overplay the race card don't you?

If you can't see from what is being written about 'billionaire' playthings and not wanting to be part of that under any circumstances and not take that at face value without playing the card, that is a problem that rests solely with you.

Like I said, opposition to billionaire playthings is understandable and is a fair opinion. It's the need to prefix any discussion involving Middle Eastern owners with pejoratives relating to their Arab ancestry that's discriminatory IMO. I mean, why mention sand dunes and why immediately assume they're crooks or thieves? Not everyone obviously does this, but there's an undercurrent of suspicion whenever Arab businessmen are mentioned as if they're all evil Saddam Hussein style figures.

[LDG]

Then a change of ownership isn't the answer and just need a better skilled manager that can maybe inspire the current owners to adopt a more risky approach.

:gp:

I reckon so.

Though I do think the current owners are tooling up to leave, and have been since the arrived.

Link I first said. It truly is a sad state of afffairs.

[Özim]

I don't really care who owns the club as long as they're interests are football, at the end of the day we're owned some people whose only interest is money whatever they say, there's nothing noble or moral about it, the fans are just getting conned whilst they get rich.

If a group came in and invested the fans would be getting their money's worth at least and might see the money spent go elsewhere but some rich man's pockets, for years the club has had a holier than thou attitude, it's total cr*p but credit to them they've managed to con everyone and make a lot of people believe it's for the good of the club.

[Özim]

We as Arsenal fans display the most resentment for modern day football, I'm interested as to how (or if) our support would change if we were to become something we've been so vocally against.

Football is heading in a direction where soon enough most of the top clubs will be backed this way, would that not in a sense make it a level playing field again?
Most people would jump on board as fans are fickle whatever they say...sure they might jump up and down now (it's easy to when it's not reality) but when the club is doing well on the pitch all will be forgotten just like at every other club.

Football has changed that's the reality and you have to move with the times.

[Dennis Bendtner]

I would. It would stink of shit.

Yeah. I think if we came back to it in ten years time having been pumped with cash (i.e. the Chelsea parallel), many people would say the same, in spite of their indifference/welcoming of it now. Not caring about who the club gets passed along to is very lax. What do Blackburn fans think of Venky's? On a more related level, what do Chelsea fans make of their club being subject to the whims of Abramovich?

All artificial bros.

[Cripps_orig]

I just care for the long term future of the club. Not the short term league position.

They are all ****s. Pure and simple.

If they are all ****s and by no means am I disagreeing with you, what does it matter what **** is the owner? We have in one corner, a **** that is in it just for the money, who currently owns the club but doesn't give a fuck about it and in the other we have ****s saying they are willing to spend to improve us, reduce ticket prices etc etc. Might be all bullshit. Probably is but we'll never know for certain unless it happens. It's a risk and we have come to a time where a risk has to be taken or we will be left behind. Right now all hope is not lost. We are still hanging on to the coat tails of bigger clubs by competing for a CL place. If we go on as we are, we won't be in the future. Look whats happened to Liverpool. We face mid table mediocrity

[Marc Overmars]

Would people withdraw their support altogether? If you can't enjoy the success then I wouldn't see much point in continuing to follow the club.

[GP]

Would people withdraw their support altogether? If you can't enjoy the success then I wouldn't see much point in continuing to follow the club.

I think I'd still want the club to do well, and look for the results, but I don't think I'd be able to really celebrate and 'success'

As a great man once said, it would be like buying a degree off the internet.

[Xhaka Can’t]

If a group came in and invested the fans would be getting their money's worth at least and might see the money spent go elsewhere but some rich man's pockets, .

If we had owners that invested what this Club generates, what we as fans put in it and strive for success for love of the Club, I'll be as happy as a pig in shit. Even if we didn't win, as long as I see someone doing what it takes, I'll respect that.

I have no fucking respect for the current Owner/Board and am quickly losing a lot of respect I held for Wenger who is complicit in all this shit. Neither do I have any respect for someone who just comes in and fires money at everything just because he can.

Where is the skill, fun and excitement if you strip away all the risk in a transfer market? That £50m signing din't work out? Oh well, lets sign another couple more and keep doing it til it all works out.

I'm pretty much coming to terms that I've seen the best of Arsenal and have experienced the greatest joy I'm going to get out of football, and that I'll never experience that genuine joy again.

Arsenal was a passion for me, now it is a habit.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Most people would jump on board as fans are fickle whatever they say...sure they might jump up and down now (it's easy to when it's not reality) but when the club is doing well on the pitch all will be forgotten just like at every other club.

Football has changed that's the reality and you have to move with the times.

No you don't.

You can call it quits and invest your time in something you still give two fucks about.

[Özim]

No you don't.

You can call it quits and invest your time in something you still give two fucks about.
It's easy to say that now, but if the team was playing great football, had quality players that entertained and also picked up the odd trophy I find it hard to believe any Arsenal fan wouldn't enjoy it.

What happens on the pitch is what matters to me the most, right now we're awful and it's made worse by the attitude of the people at the top and the way they are just counting the money, I don't see how someone coming in and investing money (as has happened at many clubs in the past) can be any worse.

Are you telling me that if we had players like Ronaldo, RVP etc you'd not watch because they happened to have cost a lot of money? I certainly would watch because football would be exciting and unpredictable again and hope would be back, these days there's no hope and it's predictable as can be and well.....boring.

Real, Barca, Bayern, Juve etc have always spent a lot and their fans don't seem to complain about it too much.

[Ralpheroo72]

I would welcome anything at the moment. We are a rudderless cashpoint for a **** that doesnt give a shit about us. I would love to return to the days of trophies, and journalists writing superlatives about us. In 10 years, we have become what we are today, a feeder club for the 'haves' whilst we drift into oblivion.

[PGFC]

I'm pretty much coming to terms that I've seen the best of Arsenal and have experienced the greatest joy I'm going to get out of football, and that I'll never experience that genuine joy again.

I concur.

[Power n Glory]

It's hard to imagine fans walking away if we started playing 'Champaign football' again signing up world class talent and actually competing for silverware. Even with a change of ownership there is no guarantee we'd sweep the league because there are still other teams in the Prem with good players, spending power and good managers. Wouldn't it just be evening up the odds?

[Dennis Bendtner]

At the same time I find it hard to believe that a fanbase that places such value in the memories of great teams we've had in recent years would be so happy to embrace a great oil/grocery team.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It's easy to say that now, but if the team was playing great football, had quality players that entertained and also picked up the odd trophy I find it hard to believe any Arsenal fan wouldn't enjoy it.

What happens on the pitch is what matters to me the most, right now we're awful and it's made worse by the attitude of the people at the top and the way they are just counting the money, I don't see how someone coming in and investing money (as has happened at many clubs in the past) can be any worse.

You miss the point entirely. I can't think of one person on this Board that approves of the current ownership strategy. Make appropriate use of the resources we generate, and we'll be fine and I can have pride in that.

I'm never going to have pride in someone else's ego when Arsenal is reduce to some oligarch/consortium's toy. I have other things to invest my time in. And for the record, for all this talk of 'great football' the rich bastards bring in, I can't remember a time when the quality has been so shit - in the league and at most of the recent World Cups and European Championships.

[Power n Glory]

Why not just boycott matches now if football if you've lost the passion for the game?

[Xhaka Can’t]

I would welcome anything at the moment. We are a rudderless cashpoint for a **** that doesnt give a shit about us. I would love to return to the days of trophies, and journalists writing superlatives about us. In 10 years, we have become what we are today, a feeder club for the 'haves' whilst we drift into oblivion.

I don't understand why anyone gives a fuck what journos write. I would love a return to great football and competing for trophies, but the key word is 'competing' winning is the bonus - the cherry on top. And when it is earned as it was up until the recent past, nothing tastes sweeter. This Club has the capacity to achieve success that way, but not under the current ownership, nor can it be achieved by some consortium that reduces the Club to a penis extension.

I'm not about to cheer for that.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Why not just boycott matches now if football if you've lost the passion for the game?

I go far less than I did up to near the end of last season. And even when I go now, my choice is more governed by who is going to the match - so there is still the social aspect of it.

[Niall_Quinn]

If this consortium was American, would the opposition on here be so strong? It's as if Anglo Saxon business is the only acceptable form of business, and Arabs are immediately denounced as crooks, etc. I guess some forms of racism continue to be acceptable.

Can't see anyone saying Anglo-Saxon business is the only acceptable form, did you just make that up?

Anyone involved in the oil business or the businesses spun from it is a criminal, that's how that business operates and that's how a patently ridiculous, regressive and anti-humanitarian industry has been successful for so long. Oil buys politicians to enact the most draconian policies, in fact calling oil a crooked business is a bit like calling Hitler a bit of a lad. You don't have billions in your pocket from oil earnings unless a lot of people died or were dispossessed or flung into poverty and misery as a cost. Oil is the exact opposite of your community idealism to the point it must surely trump even your racial idealism? So yes, if an American oil tycoon came here and I got the chance to tell him to fuck himself I'd jump at it.

However, if an Arab banker came here I'd say yes please. Do you know why? And to address your straw man, in my opinion everything about the Anglo-Saxon business model is hateful. So I don't know how you're going to reconcile this with your attempts to paint people as racists but give it a shot anyway as I'm sure you can pull something out of thin air and start beating people with it.

[Ralpheroo72]

I don't understand why anyone gives a fuck what journos write. I would love a return to great football and competing for trophies, but the key word is 'competing' winning is the bonus - the cherry on top. And when it is earned as it was up until the recent past, nothing tastes sweeter. This Club has the capacity to achieve success that way, but not under the current ownership, nor can it be achieved by some consortium that reduces the Club to a penis extension.

I'm not about to cheer for that.

The Journo point was the 'caught up in the moment' of following the team. It was how I loved buying every paper on Sunday, so that I could re-live the moment. I miss that, thats all I am saying.

[Niall_Quinn]

Welcome to GW

I'm astonished with the fans lack of desire for us to improve. We all agree the current board are ****s and we want them out. This is the only way it's going to happen. A takeover. Be it these lot or someone else, it's the only way to get rid of the current lot.

Likewise we all want Wenger to change his ways or want him gone. Neither will happen with this board. It might with a new lot.

Sooner it happens the better. Us fans have gone through years of mockery. Time we gave some back

You are suggesting the fans get with the program and sell their morals, pride and passion for the cheap thrill of artificial success, all at the expense of sport and competition. Some fans will sign up, others won't. Besides, there is no consortium willing to pay three times the odds to buy the club. There may be a fat Russian gangster who needs a money laundering and drug smuggling front but we already know about him and the current leech won't let him in.

[Niall_Quinn]

I just care for the long term future of the club. Not the short term league position.

They are all ****s. Pure and simple.

Exactly. In ten years when I'm watching footie with my kid I want him to see the likes of Henry and Bergkamp going head to head with Cantonas and van Nistelrooys - not a bunch of pimply, blinged-out, untalented, overpaid whores tapping it around for 30 seconds and then freezing for an ad break. You let vermin in then the place is going to pile up with shit and the house just won't be the same.

[Ralpheroo72]

Exactly. In ten years when I'm watching footie with my kid I want him to see the likes of Henry and Bergkamp going head to head with Cantonas and van Nistelrooys - not a bunch of pimply, blinged-out, untalented, overpaid whores tapping it around for 30 seconds and then freezing for an ad break. You let vermin in then the place is going to pile up with shit and the house just won't be the same.

Yeah, nail on the head! There are few footballers I like now, nothing like back when TH14 and DB10 went head to head with the other greats. You see the likes of the innit brigade now, absolute crime that they earn more than surgeons or nurses or any other life preserving occupation.

[Niall_Quinn]

Most people are advocating that we spend the money we have in our war chest now or for one of our billionaire owners to chip in to help us win a title. What's the difference?

We have money to spend earned from gate receipts, TV cash, competition on the pitch. The cash doesn't come from some bloke tossing it over a wall in a blood stained bag. The fans want the money the pay to go into the team. Nothing unreasonable with that at all and all in the spirit of competition.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Exactly. In ten years when I'm watching footie with my kid I want him to see the likes of Henry and Bergkamp going head to head with Cantonas and van Nistelrooys - not a bunch of pimply, blinged-out, untalented, overpaid whores tapping it around for 30 seconds and then freezing for an ad break. You let vermin in then the place is going to pile up with shit and the house just won't be the same.

This post is 10 years late tbh.

[LDG]

Would people withdraw their support altogether? If you can't enjoy the success then I wouldn't see much point in continuing to follow the club.

I dunno. Honest answer.

Loke GP said, I'd always look out for the results.

Even now, it's not the Arsenal I grew up loving though. I watched that TH14 documentary yesterday (posted up in another thread) an I was on the verge of tears at points, remembering how much those times meant as a fan. And we had the class that went with it, on and off the pitch.

I wish Wenger would take a look back at some of those times and realise what the last few years has cost us.

Does anyone really feel the same adoration for the badge anymore?

But this is why this all matters. Because I still cling to the hope that one day, we'll find our way again, on our own two feet. And I don't care if that means being mid-table.

All about the club for me. Not the money or the trophies.

[Power n Glory]

Exactly. In ten years when I'm watching footie with my kid I want him to see the likes of Henry and Bergkamp going head to head with Cantonas and van Nistelrooys - not a bunch of pimply, blinged-out, untalented, overpaid whores tapping it around for 30 seconds and then freezing for an ad break. You let vermin in then the place is going to pile up with shit and the house just won't be the same.

If you're constantly calling for Stan Kronke's head then these are the guys most likely to buy the club. There aren't many with billions to spend unless they're oil rich. With Stand you can at least argue he has a history in sport owning other franchises.

This is why we're better off calling for management change over ownership if you don't like the sound of this sort of takeover.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The Journo point was the 'caught up in the moment' of following the team. It was how I loved buying every paper on Sunday, so that I could re-live the moment. I miss that, thats all I am saying.

Fair enough.

[Niall_Quinn]

People who criticise City and Chelsea etc should realise that under the current arrangements it is impossible for one of the "lesser" clubs to actually break into the elite of football without some serious external investment. The way the league is structured and the rewards distributed (e.g. with UCL revenue) means that those at the top will always remain at the top. You can tell their supporters that they should accept their lot but they can easily counter that by saying we support a club that benefit from the current arrangement which is why we have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. I'm not denying that Chelsea and City supporters' opposition to FFP is motivated by self interest, but so is Gazidis' support for it. We stand to benefit from any policy that is designed to kick the ladder away from small/medium sized clubs aspiring to reach the top.

Your argument is like the guy with a broken watch who suggests it can be mended by breaking everyone else's watches. You don't counter the likes of city and the chavs by encouraging more of that shit. You force these anti-competitive cheats to play by the rules. Or at least introduce rules that are in line with planet earth and the conditions faced by any other business. In fact this is a bit like the capitalism versus corporatism argument. To promote capitalism (which in itself is not evil) you must address the the cancer of corporatism. Indeed corporations were initially social endeavours with a limited remit and lifespan before they were hopelessly corrupted. Just as football was a sport before the rapists arrived.

[Cripps_orig]

You are suggesting the fans get with the program and sell their morals, pride and passion for the cheap thrill of artificial success, all at the expense of sport and competition. Some fans will sign up, others won't. Besides, there is no consortium willing to pay three times the odds to buy the club. There may be a fat Russian gangster who needs a money laundering and drug smuggling front but we already know about him and the current leech won't let him in.
I am suggesting Arsenal get with the times before they get left behind.

[LDG]

Your argument is like the guy with a broken watch who suggests it can be mended by breaking everyone else's watches. You don't counter the likes of city and the chavs by encouraging more of that shit. You force these anti-competitive cheats to play by the rules. Or at least introduce rules that are in line with planet earth and the conditions faced by any other business. In fact this is a bit like the capitalism versus corporatism argument. To promote capitalism (which in itself is not evil) you must address the the cancer of corporatism. Indeed corporations were initially social endeavours with a limited remit and lifespan before they were hopelessly corrupted. Just as football was a sport before the rapists arrived.

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

Of course not. I want some trophies. Just some shiny, huge trophies. Who cares how they come? I just need them. You see, I've had a failure of a life and I absolutely need to piggyback on the success of my favourite sports team to compensate for that.

I probably won't celebrate it because I won't have any interest left. I'm just struggling to see the point of it. Even if we lose today, I doubt I'll care much. Watching more out of habit than any real enthusiasm. It's a pretty poor game at the top level but I'm struggling to find a sport to replace the void tbh. Need suggestions.

If you don't care about losing today then you really are out of the game. This one means something. It has nothing to do with trophies and everything to do with the healthy rivalries that make us what we are. And the memories that connect us. The sort of rivalries that are being squashed by ****s who want to make the whole world the same (as in shit). Football is still there, just drop down a few leagues and watch it for the fun of it.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

NLD day and here we are bickering over a bullshit article which clearly was meant to unsettle everything Arsenal.

The scum :bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

I am suggesting Arsenal get with the times before they get left behind.

The "times" are 1% or the rich trying to impoverish the already poor. It's pretty hard to get with it when the 1% are so protective. I think your model involves getting rid of all bar the top 10 clubs who can then engage in a heavily sponsored wankfest. Do we want that? Maybe you do, in which case

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

No you don't.

You can call it quits and invest your time in something you still give two fucks about.

Or you can stick a video of Pele on and then go out and have a kickaround with the kids. Football still exists but it's buried under all the shit. Football hasn't changed and it's still accessible to anyone. That thing, with all the flashing lights and whooping idiots isn't football it's just a way for socially dead pricks to hoover up more cash. When they have it all they'll piss off to something else and football will be back on the street where it grew up. Then rinse and repeat but at least the fun will be back for a few decades.

[LDG]

Club have said "it's all bullshit".

[Niall_Quinn]

Why not just boycott matches now if football if you've lost the passion for the game?

Love it or leave it? Vietnam war protesters were given the same option by the "patriots" who loved their country blindly (no matter how much brown people got bombed). Nobody has lost a passion for the game. The passion has been removed from the game. Different thing.

[Niall_Quinn]

Club have said "it's all bullshit".

Are they talking about themselves or this supposed takeover?

[Ralpheroo72]

Are they talking about themselves or this supposed takeover?

They say it was actually an 'East Midlands' takeover, looks like it was all a typo. :doh:

[Power n Glory]

Love it or leave it? Vietnam war protesters were given the same option by the "patriots" who loved their country blindly (no matter how much brown people got bombed). Nobody has lost a passion for the game. The passion has been removed from the game. Different thing.

Don't compare this to the Vietnam War. :lol:

It's not a love it or leave it choice. If the current owners care only pay attention to money, why get there attention that way?

[LDG]

Are they talking about themselves or this supposed takeover?

I thought you would like my direct quote ;)

[Niall_Quinn]

Don't compare this to the Vietnam War. :lol:

It's not a love it or leave it choice. If the current owners care only pay attention to money, why get there attention that way?

I'm not comparing it to the war, I'm comparing it to the principle. A majority with low standards doesn't mean the minority should abandon theirs. For me, the "football has changed, move on or move out", argument is simply an invitation to change it back.

[Power n Glory]

I'm not comparing it to the war, I'm comparing it to the principle. A majority with low standards doesn't mean the minority should abandon theirs. For me, the "football has changed, move on or move out", argument is simply an invitation to change it back.

Move on or move out isn't my argument.

[Niall_Quinn]

Move on or move out isn't my argument.

Well it is now.

[Power n Glory]

Well it is now.

It's not and still isn't. It relates to a thread I posted earlier.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2180

If this isn't the sort of change we want at the club then will the current owners get the message? You've suggested in the past that Stan is the problem and needs to walk but judging from your reaction today I hope you've thought about where such action could lead. We're in a shitty position and the only way I see the Board and manager paying attention is if the revenue starts to shrink. Calling for a change of ownership will only lead to this sort of situation.

[Joker]

Interesting to see that there are still a fair number of supporters fully behind Kroenke (not necessarily on this messageboard):

http://positivelyarsenal.wordpress.com/2013/03/01/understand-arsenal-and-be-a-part-of-something-part-2/

[Niall_Quinn]

It's not and still isn't. It relates to a thread I posted earlier.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2180

If this isn't the sort of change we want at the club then will the current owners get the message? You've suggested in the past that Stan is the problem and needs to walk but judging from your reaction today I hope you've thought about where such action could lead. We're in a shitty position and the only way I see the Board and manager paying attention is if the revenue starts to shrink. Calling for a change of ownership will only lead to this sort of situation.

If this offer wasn't pretend and made up by the newspapers Kroenke would jump at it anyway. He's only here to keep filling the pot and walk off with it when it's brimming, so some idiot offering him twice his investment would have his hand bitten off. So Stan's not really the problem, he;s just a symptom of the problem. The way the game stands now if it's not him it's some other slime. I say Kroenke needs to walk and I stick by that. And the second he walks I'll start calling for the departure of the new owners(s). I don't believe in the lesser of two evils.

But bottom line. This story effectively reads, consortium wants to buy Arsenal and give the fans everything they want. Players, trophies, cheaper tickets, the old stadium back. It's a joke. Kroenke's here until he gets his pay day and then fatty is in for a feed up. That's our future.

[Niall_Quinn]

Interesting to see that there are still a fair number of supporters fully behind Kroenke (not necessarily on this messageboard):

http://positivelyarsenal.wordpress.com/2013/03/01/understand-arsenal-and-be-a-part-of-something-part-2/

Here they are.

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a433/qwerty12343/ofotcn_zpsb5f3733b.jpg

[AKBapologist]

The consortium is a saudi prince and a few of his mates. Their too late tbh FPP kicks in next year and no one can spunk a billion on a club without consequences from now one. We were fucked then and we're fucked now.

[Niall_Quinn]

Saudi Royal family? Worst sub-human filth on earth. Makes sense. I wouldn't worry about FFP standing in their way - that's what bribery and corruption is for.

[Letters]

Disgusted with the whole thing.

They can all fuck off.

What a sad state of affairs for our club and football in general :(
That.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Interesting to see that there are still a fair number of supporters fully behind Kroenke (not necessarily on this messageboard):

http://positivelyarsenal.wordpress.com/2013/03/01/understand-arsenal-and-be-a-part-of-something-part-2/

I've no idea what point this guy is actually making about Kroenke. Words like stability chucked around without any substantiation. Aside from his nothingness there is precious little to draw on when talking about him. The one saving aspect might be his background in sports but phuck knows.

[Özim]

We have money to spend earned from gate receipts, TV cash, competition on the pitch. The cash doesn't come from some bloke tossing it over a wall in a blood stained bag. The fans want the money the pay to go into the team. Nothing unreasonable with that at all and all in the spirit of competition.
You constantly go on about the board and needing them out as they're the problem, but when the opportunity arises you don't want it to happen. If anyone buys the club they'll have to be minted and in all likelyness will want to invest in it.

We've got a rich guy, he just wants his share of the profit....we either live with that or with someone who pumps money in, don't think there's another option.

[Niall_Quinn]

You constantly go on about the board and needing them out as they're the problem, but when the opportunity arises you don't want it to happen. If anyone buys the club they'll have to be minted and in all likelyness will want to invest in it.

We've got a rich guy, he just wants his share of the profit....we either live with that or with someone who pumps money in, don't think there's another option.

Big difference between Kroenke and an owner who will reinvest the profits and gives a shit about what goes on on the pitch. Even bigger difference compared to a bunch of thieves from a shit hole. We could be far more competitive if our present board would focus on football. No need at all to sell out to crooks. Only bad could come of that long term and I'm guessing no fan wants bad things for the club.

[Letters]

I dunno. Honest answer.

Loke GP said, I'd always look out for the results.

Even now, it's not the Arsenal I grew up loving though. I watched that TH14 documentary yesterday (posted up in another thread) an I was on the verge of tears at points, remembering how much those times meant as a fan. And we had the class that went with it, on and off the pitch.

I wish Wenger would take a look back at some of those times and realise what the last few years has cost us.

Does anyone really feel the same adoration for the badge anymore?

But this is why this all matters. Because I still cling to the hope that one day, we'll find our way again, on our own two feet. And I don't care if that means being mid-table.

All about the club for me. Not the money or the trophies.
:gp:

I really should re-read Fever Pitch again, Hornby writes with passion about what being a football fan is about, the ups and downs, the trophies and the disappointments. Most importantly, the connection. Connection with the club, the players, fellow fans. We are THE Arsenal and f*** all the rest.
It's not like that now.

The club? They don't give two shits about the fans - they don't see us as fans any more, we're customers and, worse, customers who can't go elsewhere.
Sod us, we can't change allegiance so keep ramping up the prices, keep pumping out the merchandise, maximise profits.

The players? Jack is a notable counter example, he seems to get it - get what playing for The Arsenal is about. The rest...yeah, they'll sign a new contract if we offer enough but if a better comes up you won't see them for dust. They're paid so well so young (which is Wenger's fault) they've made it financially by their early 20s, why would they care how they do after that, there's no great incentive to improve.

Fellow fans? That's still there, to an extent. But even then a lot of the traditional support has gone, priced out or jaded by the corporate Sky Sports bullshit that is modern football.

None of this is Chelsea's fault, or City's. They're just exploiting the way it is. And the way it is is down to the FA, UEFA and FIFA who have conspired to let this happen, or at least sat by while it has. It's not much fun any more. I just don't care which billionaire's team beats which other billionaire's. That's not what football is supposed to be about. It's supposed to be a sport. I won't be renewing my season ticket, I should cancel Sky Sports really as I pretty much never watch neutral games and I don't think I can bear to watch us today as I think we'll lose and I can't be doing with it any more.

In brief:

Football :rose:

[Dennis Bendtner]

Watch the game you pussy

[Niall_Quinn]

:gp:

I really should re-read Fever Pitch again, Hornby writes with passion about what being a football fan is about, the ups and downs, the trophies and the disappointments. Most importantly, the connection. Connection with the club, the players, fellow fans. We are THE Arsenal and f*** all the rest.
It's not like that now.

The club? They don't give two shits about the fans - they don't see us as fans any more, we're customers and, worse, customers who can't go elsewhere.
Sod us, we can't change allegiance so keep ramping up the prices, keep pumping out the merchandise, maximise profits.

The players? Jack is a notable counter example, he seems to get it - get what playing for The Arsenal is about. The rest...yeah, they'll sign a new contract if we offer enough but if a better comes up you won't see them for dust. They're paid so well so young (which is Wenger's fault) they've made it financially by their early 20s, why would they care how they do after that, there's no great incentive to improve.

Fellow fans? That's still there, to an extent. But even then a lot of the traditional support has gone, priced out or jaded by the corporate Sky Sports bullshit that is modern football.

None of this is Chelsea's fault, or City's. They're just exploiting the way it is. And the way it is is down to the FA, UEFA and FIFA who have conspired to let this happen, or at least sat by while it has. It's not much fun any more. I just don't care which billionaire's team beats which other billionaire's. That's not what football is supposed to be about. It's supposed to be a sport. I won't be renewing my season ticket, I should cancel Sky Sports really as I pretty much never watch neutral games and I don't think I can bear to watch us today as I think we'll lose and I can't be doing with it any more.

In brief:

Football :rose:

So what you are saying is Walcott is shit?

:gp:

He better score today though. Theo :bow:

[Özim]

Big difference between Kroenke and an owner who will reinvest the profits and gives a shit about what goes on on the pitch. Even bigger difference compared to a bunch of thieves from a shit hole. We could be far more competitive if our present board would focus on football. No need at all to sell out to crooks. Only bad could come of that long term and I'm guessing no fan wants bad things for the club.
We've already seen the current board aren't going to re-invest what we get, so that leaves the option of someone buying in which realistically will be someone loaded who will probably want to put his stamp on the club and make them successful.

[PGFC]

They won't want to buy us now.

[Özim]

Time for the billionaires to come home.

[Kano]

We've already seen the current board aren't going to re-invest what we get, so that leaves the option of someone buying in which realistically will be someone loaded who will probably want to put his stamp on the club and make them successful.
that option is always there but it is becoming more and more wishful thinking.

more likely someone has seen the blueprint created by this current lot, will buy in hoping to keep on doing the same thing before they fuck off and hand it to someone else.

there is no reason in the world to ever trust a billionaire owner will have the best intentions for anyone bar himself. we're fucked. stuck in the playground of richmen to kick us around until the walls cave in on the game.

[Letters]

Watch the game you pussy
Think I made the right call...

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

do we really want to become another chelsea or man city?

[IBK]

I concur.

Yup. With you on this.

[Nayan]

Gotta admit I tl;dr to this when pasting it in. But, the Middle East bringing back the North Bank? :haha:

This is TEG on a WUM.

Leave it out. They'd be more West Bank than Norf bank.

[Cripps_orig]

do we really want to become another chelsea or man city?

Do we really want to be challenging for trophies as they are? Yes

[Niall_Quinn]

Do we really want to be challenging for trophies as they are? Yes

We wouldn't be challenging for trophies, we'd be bidding for them. Or buying them outright if the new mob were prepared to chuck the most stolen money around.

[Cripps_orig]

Stolen money, crooks :lol:

God forbid these people made money through legitimate ways.

Think people need to grow up a little. Fair enough if you don't want us to be taken over and stay in this mediocrity. I however would rather we compete with the big clubs by any means necessary. I'm a gooner after all

[Niall_Quinn]

Stolen money, crooks :lol:

God forbid these people made money through legitimate ways.

Think people need to grow up a little. Fair enough if you don't want us to be taken over and stay in this mediocrity. I however would rather we compete with the big clubs by any means necessary. I'm a gooner after all

Saudis, legitimate? :haha:

Me grow up? :haha:

[Cripps_orig]

Considering they would have their hands chopped off if they were doing anything illegal, I'd say they are the most legitimate country ever.

Not like England where drinking, drink driving, raping etc is seen as a good time and not punishable

[GP]

Saudis, legitimate? :haha:

Me grow up? :haha:

Anyone who lives in the sand is a terrorist or is funding terrorism.

And I should know, I've seen Fox News.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I have no geopolitical adversity to such a move, it's that i do believe in the term "financial doping" and i think it's a form of cheating.....i think it would be hypocritical of many of us who bemoan the artificiality of the chelsea/man city acheivements and accept it for Arsenal.
It's also extremely short term thinking, maybe ask Malaga fans what they think of their middle eastern owner

Also look at what Man City have spent in the last three-four years and tally it up with what they have achieved, not exactly the most impressive of return on investment.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Anyone who lives in the sand is a terrorist or is funding terrorism.

And I should know, I've seen Fox News.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dUoxruCh8c

[Kano]

I have no geopolitical adversity to such a move, it's that i do believe in the term "financial doping" and i think it's a form of cheating.....i think it would be hypocritical of many of us who bemoan the artificiality of the chelsea/man city acheivements and accept it for Arsenal.
It's also extremely short term thinking, maybe ask Malaga fans what they think of their middle eastern owner

it's all we have left. how many other people in the world can afford to buy a business for so much, bar billionaires from anywhere in the world?

until the game falls to pieces and the money floods back out of the game, we'll always be under the control of rich men with their own agendas and/or dodgy histories. it's pretty fucked up tbh.

[Niall_Quinn]

Considering they would have their hands chopped off if they were doing anything illegal, I'd say they are the most legitimate country ever.

Not like England where drinking, drink driving, raping etc is seen as a good time and not punishable

It's the royals doing the chopping. They don't chop their own hands off for stealing.

[Kano]

Then why not spend the cash reserves of $190M reported in the semi-annual accounts a couple of weeks ago?

Jumping to the conclusion that Arsenal has $190M available to spend on new players is like looking at your bank balance after pay day and deciding that you can spend the lot.

What you have in the bank is only relevant once you have accounted for all the payments that have yet to clear and the liabilities you need to settle before pay day comes around again.

Of the $190M on Arsenal’s books, $35M has to be held in reserve under long-term debt covenants. There is another $210M worth of liabilities that must be settled in the next year. That means a negative position of $55M but that is offset by $105M in monies owed to Arsenal within the next year.

So a $190M cash reserve dwindles to a net reserve of $50M.

Without fixating on the $50M as a transfer fund there is further reason that Arsenal should be able to sign more players (and better?) this summer.

A number of contracts are up this summer and it is clear that Arsenal is not going to renew most of them. Salaries of at least $25M per year could drop off the books.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbymcmahon/2013/03/03/congratulations-your-takeover-bid-for-arsenal-arrived-only-a-decade-late/

good read.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Stolen money, crooks :lol:

God forbid these people made money through legitimate ways.

Think people need to grow up a little. Fair enough if you don't want us to be taken over and stay in this mediocrity. I however would rather we compete with the big clubs by any means necessary. I'm a gooner after all

I dont want us operating along the same lines as City or Chelsea. Nor do I want us to operate as we currently do.

All I want, and I suggest others do as well, is for us to make the maximum use of the resources the Club generates.

If that were to happen along with being well managed, we could compete and feel genuine pride in what we achieved, just as we did in the past.

[Cripps_orig]

What if this was us using the maximum use of our resources? Someone posted that they think Wenger is giving 110% but he's just not good enough anymore. Same for the team yesterday. I can't really fault the effort of the lads. They gave it their all but quality wise we are lacking in all areas and unfortunately it will take big money to get that quality in.

I agree with you in that I don't want us to be taken over by whoever and become a penis extension (which btw is an awesome phrase) nor do I want what we are currently doing. If I had to choose one, it'd be the latter though.

We don't need to spend £30m+ on 5 players this summer but why can't we spend that much on one player? If we can't do that then our finances aren't as good as its made out to be and the fans as usual are sold a crock of shit.

[Kano]

it doesn't take millions to talk to each other in defence and not concede the goals we do in such a piss poor fashion. changing that would change a lot of things. wenger obviously can't do it so we need someone who can.

[Niall_Quinn]

I dont want us operating along the same lines as City or Chelsea. Nor do I want us to operate as we currently do.

All I want, and I suggest others do as well, is for us to make the maximum use of the resources the Club generates.

If that were to happen along with being well managed, we could compete and feel genuine pride in what we achieved, just as we did in the past.

Exactly. We were slugging it out toe to toe with Utd on half their resources in the past. Our decline in fortunes stems from mismanagement at all levels shielded behind the myth of us being the best run club in the world. Of course ****ish accountants and pen-pushers will love the way we are run. Those ****s love anything from which life is drained. We love football so it's time to kick the fucking accountants out and get any sod in from the street to run things. A mother with three kids on a tight budget could do a better job than the flash ****s we have congratulating themselves upstairs. They are fucking losers with a lot of cash, that's all. They know the price of everything and the value of fuck all.

[Niall_Quinn]

it doesn't take millions to talk to each other in defence and not concede the goals we do in such a piss poor fashion. changing that would change a lot of things. wenger obviously can't do it so we need someone who can.

No, but it might take millions in therapy to convince Wenger we are not Barcelona, seeing as he's not leaving.

[Letters]

Friend just recommended this book to me:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/They-Stole-Game-David-Yallop/dp/178033401X

[PGFC]

Wobbly table?

[LDG]

:lol:

[Letters]

Wobbly table?

Your face is a wobbly table <_<

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I actually believe in the self-sustaining model the club has in place, i just don't like how
a) the wage bill has been so disastrously handled
b) Ivan Gazidis has done sod all to bring us the kind of commercial revenue we need in order to operate this way, and the money the club brings in is all through gate receipts and player sales


But neither of these things is responsible for what happened yesterday, yesterday was caused by a manager whose fault lies in his being too stubborn to learn from his mistakes....why on earth did mertesacker and ramsey play yesterday, why did we hold such a high line, why was cazorla played out of position, why did we take carl jenkinson off, why didn't podolski and rosicky start?. Why are we so slow at making runs into the box when the ball is crossed in low.

I'd hate to imagine what Steve Bould's blood pressure is like at this moment, probably passes out at the end of each match in frustration at his Boss' ineptitude.

I don't enjoy criticising Wenger, and frankly the vitriol aimed at him on this board saddens me, but it's not entirerly undeserved. Personally I think it would take a lot for me to dislike him as a person, and i think listening to him speak is a lot more interesting than hearing the self-regarding tripe that comes out of most managers mouths. I think the media especially treat him with a disgraceful amount of disrespect.
However he is a frustrating individual who is making a rod for his own back but i don't believe for a moment he doesn't care. If he didn't care he would have signed a new contract, and i think he's dreadfully unhappy with not having won anything for so long.
I think he is firmly entrenched in this idea that it's only the financial doping in the other clubs that's responsible for him not winning things, when the truth is we rarely make it above 70 points in a season these days and there is a lack of leadership, ideas and fight in his team.
I'd love nothing more than for him to vindicate himself and throw it back at the people who scream "you don't know what your doing" at him, but in my head i don't see it happening.

[Grebbo]

I hope they buy us ASAP.

[Xhaka Can’t]

What if this was us using the maximum use of our resources? Someone posted that they think Wenger is giving 110% but he's just not good enough anymore. Same for the team yesterday. I can't really fault the effort of the lads. They gave it their all but quality wise we are lacking in all areas and unfortunately it will take big money to get that quality in.

I agree with you in that I don't want us to be taken over by whoever and become a penis extension (which btw is an awesome phrase) nor do I want what we are currently doing. If I had to choose one, it'd be the latter though.

We don't need to spend £30m+ on 5 players this summer but why can't we spend that much on one player? If we can't do that then our finances aren't as good as its made out to be and the fans as usual are sold a crock of shit.

I have no doubt that Wenger is working really hard - in fact I think he is working too hard. But for that, he only has himself to blame. That he has worked hard and done a lot for this Club - in terms of trophies in the first half of his career, and in terms of ensuring the Club got on a firm financial footing in the next quarter of it can't be in dispute.

What has happened subsequent to that has been pretty much disastrous. I believe Wenger could or should have had enough of a power base to say, right, we are through the worst in terms of investing in the move - now lets invest in the team. But for some inexplicable reason, he seems content to not invest in the team - even to the extent of continually weakening it. I honestly cannot think of another Manager who would accept and go along with this.

So he continues to weaken the team while turning in profits that have resulted in huge capital appreciation for the shareholders who cashed in, and so too will Kroenke in due course. Despite doing this, he still seems to want to win - you see the anguish in his face and the way he is publically losing the plot from time to time, and the bizarre shit he spouts just about every time a mic is put in front of him.

But he is attempting to win with a team that has less quality and leadership in it relative to elsewhere than any Arsenal team I can recall watching. While I accept he is working hard to do this, I cannot accept him being complicit in the continual asset stripping of the side. Added to this, we have an extremely high wage bill - most of it wasted. For what we pay out on wages, we could easily accommodate three top top quality players in the side - leaders - skilled professionals. But we do not have that because of a salary structure that rewards everybody lucky enough to sign a contract with us, way beyond their worth and without them actually having to contribute anything. If you want proof - look at the amount of money we are wasting on Bendtner just to fund his lifestyle of getting pissed, giving off shit to people in fast food joints, vandalising cars and drink driving.

There is no way this Club is making maximum use of its resources, nor is it getting value out of the resources it does invest.

This Club in this climate should be performing much much better - it has the capacity to do so - and it is that which is sickening to me.

[Niall_Quinn]

I have no doubt that Wenger is working really hard - in fact I think he is working too hard. But for that, he only has himself to blame. That he has worked hard and done a lot for this Club - in terms of trophies in the first half of his career, and in terms of ensuring the Club got on a firm financial footing in the next quarter of it can't be in dispute.

What has happened subsequent to that has been pretty much disastrous. I believe Wenger could or should have had enough of a power base to say, right, we are through the worst in terms of investing in the move - now lets invest in the team. But for some inexplicable reason, he seems content to not invest in the team - even to the extent of continually weakening it. I honestly cannot think of another Manager who would accept and go along with this.

So he continues to weaken the team while turning in profits that have resulted in huge capital appreciation for the shareholders who cashed in, and so too will Kroenke in due course. Despite doing this, he still seems to want to win - you see the anguish in his face and the way he is publically losing the plot from time to time, and the bizarre shit he spouts just about every time a mic is put in front of him.

But he is attempting to win with a team that has less quality and leadership in it relative to elsewhere than any Arsenal team I can recall watching. While I accept he is working hard to do this, I cannot accept him being complicit in the continual asset stripping of the side. Added to this, we have an extremely high wage bill - most of it wasted. For what we pay out on wages, we could easily accommodate three top top quality players in the side - leaders - skilled professionals. But we do not have that because of a salary structure that rewards everybody lucky enough to sign a contract with us, way beyond their worth and without them actually having to contribute anything. If you want proof - look at the amount of money we are wasting on Bendtner just to fund his lifestyle of getting pissed, giving off shit to people in fast food joints, vandalising cars and drink driving.

There is no way this Club is making maximum use of its resources, nor is it getting value out of the resources it does invest.

This Club in this climate should be performing much much better - it has the capacity to do so - and it is that which is sickening to me.

One other possible factor is he came into the club when players like Tony Adams existed and not the nasty little ****s who play today. There's no love for the team or loyalty any more, except in the rarest cases. That's got to be a factor in the wage bill being out of control, which is not to say we should have even tried to hang on to the shite we have on the books. But it's tough when you build up players like van Persie and Fabregas and give them every possible assistance only to watch them fuck off and start talking about how great Utd are and how Barcelona is your real home. Well don't fucking leave in the first place Cesc.

I believe Wenger has been overly fair with these players but he's had it spit back in his face in the latter half of his tenure. Of course this is again his problem, he hasn't moved further down the turd bowl in line with what's common in the game now. He insists on circling the rim and won't agree to be flushed like uber ****s such as Mancini. Wenger has this thing about the clubs with the big money, he seems to be on a personal crusade to beat them the old way. It's ambitious but a bit crazy too because these no-talent fucks like Mancini can just spend their way out of every problem. Wenger could have spent a bit but even that appears to be a compromise too far for him. Some of his personal beliefs (training, diet, etc) have been great for the club and football in general but the other shit (overpayment to garbage, Barca-lite, arrogance towards the opposition) has killed us now we don't have the talent to wing it.

The players really are horrible little ****s though. Just fucking horrible. They are more celebs than footballers. Hateful.

[Power n Glory]

One other possible factor is he came into the club when players like Tony Adams existed and not the nasty little ****s who play today. There's no love for the team or loyalty any more, except in the rarest cases. That's got to be a factor in the wage bill being out of control, which is not to say we should have even tried to hang on to the shite we have on the books. But it's tough when you build up players like van Persie and Fabregas and give them every possible assistance only to watch them fuck off and start talking about how great Utd are and how Barcelona is your real home. Well don't fucking leave in the first place Cesc.

I believe Wenger has been overly fair with these players but he's had it spit back in his face in the latter half of his tenure. Of course this is again his problem, he hasn't moved further down the turd bowl in line with what's common in the game now. He insists on circling the rim and won't agree to be flushed like uber ****s such as Mancini. Wenger has this thing about the clubs with the big money, he seems to be on a personal crusade to beat them the old way. It's ambitious but a bit crazy too because these no-talent fucks like Mancini can just spend their way out of every problem. Wenger could have spent a bit but even that appears to be a compromise too far for him. Some of his personal beliefs (training, diet, etc) have been great for the club and football in general but the other shit (overpayment to garbage, Barca-lite, arrogance towards the opposition) has killed us now we don't have the talent to wing it.

The players really are horrible little ****s though. Just fucking horrible. They are more celebs than footballers. Hateful.

I have to disagree with that. For starters, the wage bill is out of balance because he choses to pay these guys silly wages at some misguided pre-emptive strike against vulture clubs like City and Barca. Guys like Bendy and Denilson weren't even on these clubs radar but for some reason he chose to pay them massive wages they didn't earn even though they've always expressed a desire to start games and prove themselves more than anything else. There were no threats of leaving on a free if not paid accordingly, the most frustrating thing for young players is not getting a start and I remember countless players leaving or threatening to leave because of this. Bribing them to stay with money is Wenger and the clubs choice. Look at the recent contracts for Gibbs, Wilshere and Ox. None of them were demanding a huge pay increase and none have done nothing to warrant one either but he handed it out willingly even though these guys would have probably signed for an extension for a fraction of what was offered.

As for Cesc and RVP leaving, these guys have been with the club longer than guys like Ljungberg, Sol Campbell, Wiltord, Pires and Overmars but won less. It's very rare for a club of our size that's winning nothing to get almost 10 years of service from players without winning anything. Most of the past players skipped off to another club after a season or two of watching Wenger and the club refuse to sign new blood. Cesc and RVP watched for 8 years as Wenger refused to sign new players, wouldn't adapt to tactics and gave naïve speeches about us being 2% away from domination when we can't even do the basics of defending a set piece. To top it off they watched as we sold key players each season. Ade, Flamini, Hleb, Henry...just as we he perseveres with trash like Almunia in goal for years even though the world can see he's no good. Eboue on the flanks, Denilson for goodness sakes while better options were on the bench or in the transfer market. The deluded speeches Wenger makes about 4th being a trophy, our defensive record being great away from home and the way he just clouds over some many problems, they sat and heard that nonsense we're all fed up of hearing day in day out as they sat and watched a disillusioned and ill equipped team perform and choke week after week.

You can't make out as if Wenger is a victim of the players when you look at it. The crazy nonsense we're seeing now has been going on for years and he's blinkered and ignorant to the fact that he needs help and the team need help. He got 8 years of service from those guys, more than what a lot of the Invincible players served under Wenger and saw that this was a sinking ship. They could have stayed on another 8 years and won fuck all under this man. He still has no clue about defending or tactics and is a spent force. It has nothing to do with the modern day players because back at Highbury Petit, Overmars and Anelka fucked off a lot earlier even when we were on the up. If we weren't winning trophies back in during the Highbury years, Sol Campbell would have never signed for us and would have most likely signed for a club like Chelsea. And let's not forget about that 'orrible bastard Vieira. He'd have been a Chelsea boy too if they were around back then. Same goes for a lot of other players.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

I have to disagree with that. For starters, the wage bill is out of balance because he choses to pay these guys silly wages at some misguided pre-emptive strike against vulture clubs like City and Barca. Guys like Bendy and Denilson weren't even on these clubs radar but for some reason he chose to pay them massive wages they didn't earn even though they've always expressed a desire to start games and prove themselves more than anything else. There were no threats of leaving on a free if not paid accordingly, the most frustrating thing for young players is not getting a start and I remember countless players leaving or threatening to leave because of this. Bribing them to stay with money is Wenger and the clubs choice. Look at the recent contracts for Gibbs, Wilshere and Ox. None of them were demanding a huge pay increase and none have done nothing to warrant one either but he handed it out willingly even though these guys would have probably signed for an extension for a fraction of what was offered.

As for Cesc and RVP leaving, these guys have been with the club longer than guys like Ljungberg, Sol Campbell, Wiltord, Pires and Overmars but won less. It's very rare for a club of our size that's winning nothing to get almost 10 years of service from players without winning anything. Most of the past players skipped off to another club after a season or two of watching Wenger and the club refuse to sign new blood. Cesc and RVP watched for 8 years as Wenger refused to sign new players, wouldn't adapt to tactics and gave naïve speeches about us being 2% away from domination when we can't even do the basics of defending a set piece. To top it off they watched as we sold key players each season. Ade, Flamini, Hleb, Henry...just as we he perseveres with trash like Almunia in goal for years even though the world can see he's no good. Eboue on the flanks, Denilson for goodness sakes while better options were on the bench or in the transfer market. The deluded speeches Wenger makes about 4th being a trophy, our defensive record being great away from home and the way he just clouds over some many problems, they sat and heard that nonsense we're all fed up of hearing day in day out as they sat and watched a disillusioned and ill equipped team perform and choke week after week.

You can't make out as if Wenger is a victim of the players when you look at it. The crazy nonsense we're seeing now has been going on for years and he's blinkered and ignorant to the fact that he needs help and the team need help. He got 8 years of service from those guys, more than what a lot of the Invincible players served under Wenger and saw that this was a sinking ship. They could have stayed on another 8 years and won fuck all under this man. He still has no clue about defending or tactics and is a spent force. It has nothing to do with the modern day players because back at Highbury Petit, Overmars and Anelka fucked off a lot earlier even when we were on the up. If we weren't winning trophies back in during the Highbury years, Sol Campbell would have never signed for us and would have most likely signed for a club like Chelsea. And let's not forget about that 'orrible bastard Vieira. He'd have been a Chelsea boy too if they were around back then. Same goes for a lot of other players.

Proper arguments here.

[Harland]

I have to disagree with that. For starters, the wage bill is out of balance because he choses to pay these guys silly wages at some misguided pre-emptive strike against vulture clubs like City and Barca. Guys like Bendy and Denilson weren't even on these clubs radar but for some reason he chose to pay them massive wages they didn't earn even though they've always expressed a desire to start games and prove themselves more than anything else. There were no threats of leaving on a free if not paid accordingly, the most frustrating thing for young players is not getting a start and I remember countless players leaving or threatening to leave because of this. Bribing them to stay with money is Wenger and the clubs choice. Look at the recent contracts for Gibbs, Wilshere and Ox. None of them were demanding a huge pay increase and none have done nothing to warrant one either but he handed it out willingly even though these guys would have probably signed for an extension for a fraction of what was offered.

As for Cesc and RVP leaving, these guys have been with the club longer than guys like Ljungberg, Sol Campbell, Wiltord, Pires and Overmars but won less. It's very rare for a club of our size that's winning nothing to get almost 10 years of service from players without winning anything. Most of the past players skipped off to another club after a season or two of watching Wenger and the club refuse to sign new blood. Cesc and RVP watched for 8 years as Wenger refused to sign new players, wouldn't adapt to tactics and gave naïve speeches about us being 2% away from domination when we can't even do the basics of defending a set piece. To top it off they watched as we sold key players each season. Ade, Flamini, Hleb, Henry...just as we he perseveres with trash like Almunia in goal for years even though the world can see he's no good. Eboue on the flanks, Denilson for goodness sakes while better options were on the bench or in the transfer market. The deluded speeches Wenger makes about 4th being a trophy, our defensive record being great away from home and the way he just clouds over some many problems, they sat and heard that nonsense we're all fed up of hearing day in day out as they sat and watched a disillusioned and ill equipped team perform and choke week after week.

You can't make out as if Wenger is a victim of the players when you look at it. The crazy nonsense we're seeing now has been going on for years and he's blinkered and ignorant to the fact that he needs help and the team need help. He got 8 years of service from those guys, more than what a lot of the Invincible players served under Wenger and saw that this was a sinking ship. They could have stayed on another 8 years and won fuck all under this man. He still has no clue about defending or tactics and is a spent force. It has nothing to do with the modern day players because back at Highbury Petit, Overmars and Anelka fucked off a lot earlier even when we were on the up. If we weren't winning trophies back in during the Highbury years, Sol Campbell would have never signed for us and would have most likely signed for a club like Chelsea. And let's not forget about that 'orrible bastard Vieira. He'd have been a Chelsea boy too if they were around back then. Same goes for a lot of other players.

Brilliant, brilliant post.

I've never thought that Van Persie and Cesc deserved any flak from our supporters and you verbalized my sub conscious thoughts in a very precise way.

[Harland]

I actually believe in the self-sustaining model the club has in place, i just don't like how
a) the wage bill has been so disastrously handled
b) Ivan Gazidis has done sod all to bring us the kind of commercial revenue we need in order to operate this way, and the money the club brings in is all through gate receipts and player sales


But neither of these things is responsible for what happened yesterday, yesterday was caused by a manager whose fault lies in his being too stubborn to learn from his mistakes....why on earth did mertesacker and ramsey play yesterday, why did we hold such a high line, why was cazorla played out of position, why did we take carl jenkinson off, why didn't podolski and rosicky start?. Why are we so slow at making runs into the box when the ball is crossed in low.

I'd hate to imagine what Steve Bould's blood pressure is like at this moment, probably passes out at the end of each match in frustration at his Boss' ineptitude.

I don't enjoy criticising Wenger, and frankly the vitriol aimed at him on this board saddens me, but it's not entirerly undeserved. Personally I think it would take a lot for me to dislike him as a person, and i think listening to him speak is a lot more interesting than hearing the self-regarding tripe that comes out of most managers mouths. I think the media especially treat him with a disgraceful amount of disrespect.
However he is a frustrating individual who is making a rod for his own back but i don't believe for a moment he doesn't care. If he didn't care he would have signed a new contract, and i think he's dreadfully unhappy with not having won anything for so long.
I think he is firmly entrenched in this idea that it's only the financial doping in the other clubs that's responsible for him not winning things, when the truth is we rarely make it above 70 points in a season these days and there is a lack of leadership, ideas and fight in his team.
I'd love nothing more than for him to vindicate himself and throw it back at the people who scream "you don't know what your doing" at him, but in my head i don't see it happening.

Why on earth would you find what he says interesting?

He is so very rarely honest when it comes down to speaking in a public domain and you can see this with every interview he has. He has soundbites that he merely inserts into different contexts.

Don't get me wrong I think the general way he handles the press is understandable but in recent seasons when the questions are a lot more piercing and 'heavyweighted', his interviews simply come across as patronizing and arrogant.

[topgun]

I have to disagree with that. For starters, the wage bill is out of balance because he choses to pay these guys silly wages at some misguided pre-emptive strike against vulture clubs like City and Barca. Guys like Bendy and Denilson weren't even on these clubs radar but for some reason he chose to pay them massive wages they didn't earn even though they've always expressed a desire to start games and prove themselves more than anything else. There were no threats of leaving on a free if not paid accordingly, the most frustrating thing for young players is not getting a start and I remember countless players leaving or threatening to leave because of this. Bribing them to stay with money is Wenger and the clubs choice. Look at the recent contracts for Gibbs, Wilshere and Ox. None of them were demanding a huge pay increase and none have done nothing to warrant one either but he handed it out willingly even though these guys would have probably signed for an extension for a fraction of what was offered.

As for Cesc and RVP leaving, these guys have been with the club longer than guys like Ljungberg, Sol Campbell, Wiltord, Pires and Overmars but won less. It's very rare for a club of our size that's winning nothing to get almost 10 years of service from players without winning anything. Most of the past players skipped off to another club after a season or two of watching Wenger and the club refuse to sign new blood. Cesc and RVP watched for 8 years as Wenger refused to sign new players, wouldn't adapt to tactics and gave naïve speeches about us being 2% away from domination when we can't even do the basics of defending a set piece. To top it off they watched as we sold key players each season. Ade, Flamini, Hleb, Henry...just as we he perseveres with trash like Almunia in goal for years even though the world can see he's no good. Eboue on the flanks, Denilson for goodness sakes while better options were on the bench or in the transfer market. The deluded speeches Wenger makes about 4th being a trophy, our defensive record being great away from home and the way he just clouds over some many problems, they sat and heard that nonsense we're all fed up of hearing day in day out as they sat and watched a disillusioned and ill equipped team perform and choke week after week.

You can't make out as if Wenger is a victim of the players when you look at it. The crazy nonsense we're seeing now has been going on for years and he's blinkered and ignorant to the fact that he needs help and the team need help. He got 8 years of service from those guys, more than what a lot of the Invincible players served under Wenger and saw that this was a sinking ship. They could have stayed on another 8 years and won fuck all under this man. He still has no clue about defending or tactics and is a spent force. It has nothing to do with the modern day players because back at Highbury Petit, Overmars and Anelka fucked off a lot earlier even when we were on the up. If we weren't winning trophies back in during the Highbury years, Sol Campbell would have never signed for us and would have most likely signed for a club like Chelsea. And let's not forget about that 'orrible bastard Vieira. He'd have been a Chelsea boy too if they were around back then. Same goes for a lot of other players.

Absolutley first class,could not have put it better myself.

[Nayan]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/city-pours-scorn-on-talk-of-15bn-bid-for-arsenal-8518604.html

[Kano]

of course it's bollocks - for the simple fact that they want to clear out all the debt, invest endless amounts into the team AND reduce ticket prices? that makes no financial sense at all, especially from a club that doesn't need to be put into such financial peril.

[Letters]

of course it's bollocks - for the simple fact that they want to clear out all the debt, invest endless amounts into the team AND reduce ticket prices? that makes no financial sense at all, especially from a club that doesn't need to be put into such financial peril.
What's going on at City makes no financial sense but if you've got (in effect) infinite amounts of money then who cares :shrug:

[Kano]

What's going on at City makes no financial sense but if you've got (in effect) infinite amounts of money then who cares :shrug:
that made more sense a couple of years ago with no ffp on the horizon and the fact they had to invest huge amounts to make up a hell of a lot of ground in terms of infastructure and in squad terms. in fact, the city guys seem to have some sort of plan rather than abramo who just throws money at trophies.

in terms of an investment, we are very stable, that we know. so why someone would throw billions at something and destabilise it when there is no need to doesn't make any sense. particularly when the match day return is one of the key roi's in the whole business. one of the basis of the ffp is that you cover what you spend with what your revenue - and our matchday is bread and butter. the entire 'bid' is complete horseshit, nothing less.

[Letters]

Good point about ffp although Arsenal don't need as much investment to be competitive as City did, and we have a fair bit in the bank to start with.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I have to disagree with that. For starters, the wage bill is out of balance because he choses to pay these guys silly wages at some misguided pre-emptive strike against vulture clubs like City and Barca. Guys like Bendy and Denilson weren't even on these clubs radar but for some reason he chose to pay them massive wages they didn't earn even though they've always expressed a desire to start games and prove themselves more than anything else. There were no threats of leaving on a free if not paid accordingly, the most frustrating thing for young players is not getting a start and I remember countless players leaving or threatening to leave because of this. Bribing them to stay with money is Wenger and the clubs choice. Look at the recent contracts for Gibbs, Wilshere and Ox. None of them were demanding a huge pay increase and none have done nothing to warrant one either but he handed it out willingly even though these guys would have probably signed for an extension for a fraction of what was offered.

As for Cesc and RVP leaving, these guys have been with the club longer than guys like Ljungberg, Sol Campbell, Wiltord, Pires and Overmars but won less. It's very rare for a club of our size that's winning nothing to get almost 10 years of service from players without winning anything. Most of the past players skipped off to another club after a season or two of watching Wenger and the club refuse to sign new blood. Cesc and RVP watched for 8 years as Wenger refused to sign new players, wouldn't adapt to tactics and gave naïve speeches about us being 2% away from domination when we can't even do the basics of defending a set piece. To top it off they watched as we sold key players each season. Ade, Flamini, Hleb, Henry...just as we he perseveres with trash like Almunia in goal for years even though the world can see he's no good. Eboue on the flanks, Denilson for goodness sakes while better options were on the bench or in the transfer market. The deluded speeches Wenger makes about 4th being a trophy, our defensive record being great away from home and the way he just clouds over some many problems, they sat and heard that nonsense we're all fed up of hearing day in day out as they sat and watched a disillusioned and ill equipped team perform and choke week after week.

You can't make out as if Wenger is a victim of the players when you look at it. The crazy nonsense we're seeing now has been going on for years and he's blinkered and ignorant to the fact that he needs help and the team need help. He got 8 years of service from those guys, more than what a lot of the Invincible players served under Wenger and saw that this was a sinking ship. They could have stayed on another 8 years and won fuck all under this man. He still has no clue about defending or tactics and is a spent force. It has nothing to do with the modern day players because back at Highbury Petit, Overmars and Anelka fucked off a lot earlier even when we were on the up. If we weren't winning trophies back in during the Highbury years, Sol Campbell would have never signed for us and would have most likely signed for a club like Chelsea. And let's not forget about that 'orrible bastard Vieira. He'd have been a Chelsea boy too if they were around back then. Same goes for a lot of other players.

I agree that Wenger did himself or the club few favours by not providing the likes of Cesc and RvP with a decent enough squad to work with. I think we would have stood more chance of them sticking around a while longer had he done so.

I think we agree that Cesc woud have gone back at some point but he was on a seven year contract that still had a few years to run, RvP. . ? I think,he may have seen out his days with us had we made the squad more competitive. The likes of Nasri and Ade may have a place in this argument too but I consider them talentless virginas and not worth wasting ink over.

[Kano]

Good point about ffp although Arsenal don't need as much investment to be competitive as City did, and we have a fair bit in the bank to start with.
exactly, so whilst city needed that sort of investment, we don't. very little of this 'amazing' offer adds up to very much and the fact that they are apparently willing to work with usmanov makes even less sense and leads me to believe it is shit from the russian at a time when we have crashed out of the fa, effectively out of the cl and on the eve of a very big north london derby. sounds very dodge in fact.

[Nayan]

What's going on at City makes no financial sense but if you've got (in effect) infinite amounts of money then who cares :shrug:

Well look at it this way - everyone thought Dubai was minted to lending them money to help with cashflow as they built ski slopes and airports was easy profits but it turns out they were massively in hock to Abu Dhabi and in fact had to have their bankers consolidate their debts into one easy payment etc.

We now hear of a faceless consortium which cant possibly be the state wealth funds of Qatar and UAE who would not fart about in the press or indeed deal jointly Ie at best they are a bunch of punters playing with borrowed money or could have been the Usmanov bullshit machine trying to wiind up Kronke.
Or some spurs fans making mischief ahead of their cup final.

So if you take this story seriously (I dont, myself) you should care.

[Nayan]

exactly, so whilst city needed that sort of investment, we don't. very little of this 'amazing' offer adds up to very much and the fact that they are apparently willing to work with usmanov makes even less sense and leads me to believe it is shit from the russian at a time when we have crashed out of the fa, effectively out of the cl and on the eve of a very big north london derby. sounds very dodge in fact.

spot on. When kronke spuffed his 400mill on arsenal shares that went into the previous boards pockets to buy them out. Likewise when usmanov paid over his 70mill that just let dein take a profit. None of that cash went into the squad.
Similarly whether the guy behiond the guy behind the fake sheikh spends 1billion of 1.5billion or whatever all taht would do is turn into a profit for usmanov/kronke were they to sell up. There would ahve to be other money budgeted to buy players

[Nayan]

there is 225million of debt outstanding in the form of bonds secured vs the stadium and gate receipts. Simp[ly buying out the shares would not mean that the shareholders can 'forgive'; that debt. Youd have to have all the bondholders agree to that and that is totally separate. Or youd have to buy them out of their holdings and they are under no obligtion to sell. Yet another hole in this story