Match Reaction v Bayern

[Cripps_orig]

Glorious failure for our last CL match for some time

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Good performance but sums up our season really and many games this year.


Having to fight back vainly after putting ourselves in a terrible position after not performing from the start (first leg).

[Niall_Quinn]

Ramsey is so shit there are no words.

[Fats]

Arteta was absolutely fucking shit, an absolutely disgraceful performance by him. Ground is a mindless fool and our entire midfield can't keep the damn ball. Great result!!!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Last three seasons on aggregate: 4-3, 4-3 3-3. So annoying.

[Özim]

Arteta is so sh*t there a no words.

Sh*t free kick and then gives away two free kicks in the end when we needed one goal, he's like the AW on the pitch.

[Marc Overmars]

I thought the defending was noticeably better but on the flip side I think our attacking game suffered, maybe with less anxiety we might have been able to keep hold of the ball better and pick the right passes.

All in all, a great effort but just like AC last year, the damage was already done.

Glorious failure. :bow:

We've still got it. :dance:

[Niall_Quinn]

Arteta is so sh*t there a no words.

Sh*t free kick and then gives away two free kicks in the end when we needed one goal, he's like the AW on the pitch.

None of them can pass a ball, except Gibbs. He's been injured enough to still be infected with the old ways.

Giroud :haha:

[GP]

The first leg cost us, but we were superb today.

Kos and Fab were brilliant, everyone played well. Proud of the effort, just need to play like that 10 more times.

[Joker]

Can't fault the effort, just lacking that extra quality that may have made the difference. Arteta was terrible tbh, and the fouls he conceded and the shite freekick in the last few minutes from such an experienced player were baffling.

[hymppi]

Jenkinson, Kos, Merts and Fabianski get praise from me today.
The rest - meh.
Simply not enough quality.
Champions League was nice. See yas in a few years.

[Master Splinter]

Arsenal.com can revel in this for a while.

Arsenal :bow:.


Koscielny, Jenkinson, Gibbs, Fabianski all very good.

The stat machine has ordered them to be dropped for absolutely no reason on the weekend though.


Come on Dortmund.

[fakeyank]

Great performance.. Arteta shouldve been replaced by Diaby. The defense was brilliant.. Gibbs makes a big difference and also to note, the absence of Vermaelen! Biggest liability of a captain. Why cant we defend like this more regularly?! Why do we have to play for absolutely nothing to perform at this level? This clearly shows that out shitness has more to do with attitude than actual talent.

[Letters]

Good effort. Arteta was a bloody idiot giving them those two free kicks at the end when we could have put some pressure pon. Fabiianski did well. Overall can't complain too much. Never likely to go through but good result on the night.

[Xhaka Can’t]

A good performance - a bit of quality up front - a striker of the calibre we've had since the days of Ian Wright, and we'd have been through.

Really pleased with the effort, but at the end I just wanted to punch Arteta in the face and balls.

[Dennis Bendtner]

I think we knew it wasn't our night when Gervinho turned into Ronaldinho but no one was there to score.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Geoff Shreeves is popping balloons again.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Great performance.. Arteta shouldve been replaced by Diaby. The defense was brilliant.. Gibbs makes a big difference and also to note, the absence of Vermaelen! Biggest liability of a captain. Why cant we defend like this more regularly?! Why do we have to play for absolutely nothing to perform at this level? This clearly shows that out shitness has more to do with attitude than actual talent.

It's always been like that. Whenever we're the favourites and there's pressure on us to perform we completely collapse.


Just need 10 games like that from the defence and we could perhaps nick 4th place. Jenkinson, Kosicenly and Merts were great.

[GP]

Geoff Shreeves is popping balloons again.

Is that slang for 'having a massive heart attack'?

[Kano]

got some pride back, which was the least we could have asked for before kick off.

merts was fantastic.

let's keep the same team for swansea.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Is that slang for 'having a massive heart attack'?

I wouldn't use slang if that was happening.

[Master Splinter]

Why cant we defend like this more regularly?!

Because Wenget has made Vermaelen captain?

Because of Vermaelen's captaincy, Koscielny is dropped?

Because he dropped Jenkinson despite his consistently excellent performances?

Because Gibbs is always injured?

Because we have no defensive-minded midfielders?

Because we don't defend well as a team?

[GP]

Because he dropped Jenkinson despite his consistently excellent performances?


BONBON :haha:

[selassie]

Very good performance, defensively we looked very very solid. An extra bit of quality and we would have probably gone through tonight.

Fair play, the effort was superb.

[AKBapologist]

I don't think we defended very well, Martinez totally bossed the midfield whilst we played hospital balls in front of our goal. They really didn't get out of 2nd gear against us today, as we created fuck all chances (although uncharacteristically, we were more efficient this time round.) Still, better than the shit kicking we all thought we where going to get.

[Gooner23]

Kos shows once agains he's our best centre back by some distance. He'll be dropped for next match of course.

Best back four display I've seen from us in a while, did well considering how many times are midfielders gave the ball away. I think Ramsey must be some sort of undercover agent, and a bad one at that. Its just incredible how many times he passes the ball to the oppo players.

Giroud and Walnut were poor, or just not good enough. But overall, an excellent result... hopefully we can take some confidence from this...

[Marc Overmars]

Fabianski new number 1?

Kos, Rosicky and GHELkinson first choice from now on?

Or does computer say no?

[Cripps_orig]

Defence and keeper were brilliant.

Theo and Giroud tried their hardest but once again, the midfield fucks up. Cazorla is a myth. Ramsey is shit, Rosicky was poor and then there was Arteta. Wtf is he on? Awful player.

Also why when we need goals are we taking off our biggest threat, top scorer and most assists produced in Theo?

Captain and manager were awful

[GP]

Fabianski new number 1?

Kos, Rosicky and GHELkinson first choice from now on?

Or does computer say no?

You'd like to think the players get picked on merit, so I'd start the same XI against Swans.

[Master Splinter]

Kos, Rosicky and GHELkinson first choice from now on?

Or does computer say no?

We must be faithful to our methods.

[Joker]

The regret was that we didn't really have a sustained period of pressure on the Bayern goal. The second half was mostly one way traffic (apart from Gervinho's chance) but that's because of the lack of quality in central midfield.

[Gooner23]

I don't think we defended very well, Martinez totally bossed the midfield whilst we played hospital balls in front of our goal. They really didn't get out of 2nd gear against us today, as we created fuck all chances (although uncharacteristically, we where more efficient this time round.) Still, better than the shit kicking we all thought we where going to get.

I think its more about how well the defence played, given how little protection they get from the midfield. Most of Bayerns shots were from distance. It was the midfielders giving the ball away easily that put us in trouble. Yet we won 2-0, incredible really!

[RomfordPele]

We had four shots on goal, somehow bundled two in, and then shat ourselves for last five mins when it counted.

Sorry, not impressed at all. Nothing to be proud of here.

[Marc Overmars]

Rosicky should stay in but only because Wenget's hand has been forced with Wheelchair's injury.

I'm sure Action Man Vermaelen will be back though, and Sagan if he's fit.

[Xhaka Can’t]

You'd like to think the players get picked on merit, so I'd start the same XI against Swans.

I can't state how much I hope this happens.

[Letters]

It's always been like that. Whenever we're the favourites and there's pressure on us to perform we completely collapse..

that.

No real pressure tonight and while I didn't expect us to get a result, thinking about it we do often get one when the pressure is off. We've won the second half in a few games when they've been all but lost. We emerge with some credit from tonight but we need to do it under pressure.

[Kano]

Sorry, not impressed at all. Nothing to be proud of here.
well you're an idiot.

[Joker]

We had four shots on goal, somehow bundled two in, and then shat ourselves for last five mins when it counted.

Sorry, not impressed at all. Nothing to be proud of here.

That's still an issue. When the pressure's on we tend to wilt. Combine that with a lack of attacking quality there's a lot of work to be done in the Summer.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Alan Smith saying we should stick with the same back 5.

Alan Smith is always right.

[AKBapologist]

A decent team would have monstered Bayern tonight, they were not up for it at all.

[Marc Overmars]

that.

No real pressure tonight and while I didn't expect us to get a result, thinking about it we do often get one when the pressure is off. We've won the second half in a few games when they've been all but lost. We emerge with some credit from tonight but we need to do it under pressure.

Glorious failure is what we do best. Get fucked up, do the valiant effort thing to no avail and prove what great spirit we have.

I thought even that had been sucked out of us but we've still got it. :bow:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Defence and keeper were brilliant.

Theo and Giroud tried their hardest but once again, the midfield fucks up. Cazorla is a myth. Ramsey is shit, Rosicky was poor and then there was Arteta. Wtf is he on? Awful player.

Also why when we need goals are we taking off our biggest threat, top scorer and most assists produced in Theo?

Captain and manager were awful


Don't understand why both Rosicky and Arteta weren't taken off, despite f**king up countless times Ramsey by his own rock bottom standards actually had a reasonably ok game and i would have been happier for him to remain on the pitch. The fact remains that this was a shock result, and we didn't have the attacking ability to punish Bayern further despite actually being very clinical this evening. For me the only Bayern player to really play well this evening was Thomas Muller who even despite us defending in a way i haven't seen since the beginning of the season gave us plenty of nervous moments.
Don't understand the rationale behind taking off Walcott either, it's abundantly clear to me that the tactics and defensive drilling of the game was masterminded by Steve Bould so it's a shame he didn't have a hand in the substitutions as well.
All considered though despite being disappointed that we went out (though that said i didn't actually believe we would lose this evening, i thought it would be a score draw) the fact that i am disappointed makes me feel good.

[IBK]

First - the match itself. Well done lads - salvaged some pride. The fact that Bayern were under pressure to save the tie on at the end made a mockery of most predictions - including mine. Special mention for our back 5 - who I thought were very good. Propers especially to Flappy - great game considering he's been out so long; and Jenks who was a star. Plus I would be happy for Vermaelen to stay out in favour of Kossy.

I'd agree that we suffered from being less expansive going forwards - but bar Ramsey - who I thought had a good 70 mins - our MF was below par. We showed very little intuitiveness passing forward when it counted. Carzola was again wasted on the left and Walcott showed just why he is far from the player he thinks he is. He simply can't make it happen on his own. Felt sorry for Giroud - who worked hard up front with little real quality behind him.

As for our second half syndrome (this being the second half of the tie) - for me, its the mark of a team that lacks innate self belief and composure. We can chase lost causes when a game is mostly gone because there's nothing left to lose...or when the opposition drops a bit in terms of intensity. Its telling that we did not have the composure to really take advantage of Bayern after the second goal - whereas they ultimately had the ability to do what was needed - helped by a performance from Arteta that showed why he will never have the star quality that we need.

Still - I'm not going to be too critical after one of our better performances this season that restored a bit of reputation in Europe. I'd love to say that I hope we can build on this in the run in - but I fear that the focus we showed here is unlikely to be repeated consistently.

[Power n Glory]

Kos and Merts should be playing as our CB pairing from now on. No dodgy moments from Fabianski which was good. Bayern weren't that hard to defend against but we've conceded against weaker opposition.


The bad...Arteta is a prick. Besides the last few minutes, he hides in the middle and never looks to receive the ball from deep. You'll never see that at Barca or from any other team where the midfield is supposed to be the strength.

Ramsey was Ramsey. Rosicky wasn't all that good either. Some bad passing but he wasn't the worst. Cazorla was in hiding and had a very quiet game. The dude needs to lose weight and put a shift in. Walcott was shit. Giroud is worst than Chamakh and Bendy. He has no quality.

But this result should give us confidence because we were I low spot before kick off and I'd never think we'd pull off a two nil victory. You have to applaud that and I hope we build on this.

[Cripps_orig]

Wenger will use this as a reason not to sign any players this summer.

[Letters]

Fabianski new number 1?

definitely deserves it on the basis of tonight's performance.
If Wenger plays Chesney at the weekend he's just summing

[RomfordPele]

well you're an idiot.

You're right. I pay a grand a year to watch a load of mediocre shite every other week.

At least I don't try and kid myself they're any good though.

[gunnerrrrr]

Kos really is a big game player in Europe!
Fab was quality.... i have seen Schzney around London on a few occasions and he really looks overweight. ...think Wenger is finally realising.

Giroud is a nice guy etc, but way below some of the strikers we have recently had spearheading our attack...

Rosicky , even though he is not the player he once was pre injury, is still imo our best midfielder......

As for Ramsey....... he needs to decide what kind of footballer he wants to be.......a shit one or a not so shit one..

Overall a great result, but a strange overall game and performance.

[Letters]

summing
Wumming :doh:

:damnyouautocorrect:

[PGFC]

Little bit sad.

[Kano]

You're right. I pay a grand a year to watch a load of mediocre shite every other week.

At least I don't try and kid myself they're any good though.
the same we all watch.

but after a game everyone, and i mean everyone, expected us to get another pasting in, to walk away with a 2-0 win salvages some pride in the tie, rather than a 6-1 aggregate score to truly make us a laughing stock. i don't care how bayern played because a lot very good teams will go into that stadium, play an off colour bayern and still walk away with nothing. it doesn't change how shabby we have been this season but tonight is the least we should expect every game - effort. and we got it.

if you can't get some sort of pride from this i'd say cancel that ticket, as i did last season, and give it a rest for a while as it's all become a bit too much for you.

[Xhaka Can’t]

As for Ramsey....... he needs to decide what kind of footballer he wants to be.......a shit one or a not so shit one..



:haha:

[Özim]

Wenger will use this as a reason not to sign any players this summer.
Yeah that's what I'm thinking, we'll probably go on a half decent run from now till the end of the season, he'll then point to our mini unbeaten run etc.

[GP]

You're right. .

I also agree

[Dennis Bendtner]

I wasn't overly into this game for the most part but Giroud's wondergoal attempt was a real piss take. Not the first time so why does he do that? Considering that there were so few opportunities to effectively counterattack.

[Marc Overmars]

A decent team would have monstered Bayern tonight, they were not up for it at all.

Conversely, they probably would have shown more respect to a better side. From the sounds of it the Germans thought we were a tinpot outfit.

Shame we couldn't complete the mother of all humiliations.

[Joker]

Yeah Bayern clearly thought they could cruise through in 2nd gear.

[Cripps_orig]

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger: "I believe we were very, very close. We were unlucky a few times as well. I think about Gervinho's chance and maybe one or two set pieces we could have done better.

"Overall, we had a great go. The regrets we have are from the first game when we conceded a very cheap goal in the last five minutes. If we had lost 2-1 at home you would see how important that goal was.

"I know these players, they have a fantastic attitude and spirit. We have the quality but unfortunately we have to go out of the Champions League. It hurts very much but the positives are the performance and the spirit."

Have the quality? Really?

[Özim]

Conversely, they probably would have shown more respect to a better side. From the sounds of it the Germans thought we were a tinpot outfit.
We haven't even got one of those in the last 8 years, how wrong were they? :(

[Power n Glory]

Up in Flammmmmesss! :crying:

[Marc Overmars]

I wasn't overly into this game for the most part but Giroud's wondergoal attempt was a real piss take. Not the first time so why does he do that? Considering that there were so few opportunities to effectively counterattack.

Yeah that was stupid, he's done that a few times this season. Needed more intelligent forward play out there but Bif and Theo were fairly shit.

[Özim]

What does this result mean in the end, absolutely nothing....it's all very good saying we beat Bayern etc etc but we've achieved nothing, it would have been an achievement to turn it around and win the tie, it would have shown we've got something about us. Alas every season it's the same, collapse when it matters and win games that in the end don't matter, convince ourselves (the manager) that we're great and start again with the same cycle.

For once it would be good for us to do something that actually means something.

[Marc Overmars]

What does this result mean in the end, absolutely nothing....it's all very good saying we beat Bayern etc etc but we've achieved nothing, it would have been an achievement to turn it around and win the tie, it would have shown we've got something about us. Alas every season it's the same, collapse when it matters and win games that in the end don't matter, convince ourselves (the manager) that we're great and start again with the same cycle.

The difference this time though is that the fans won't be convinced by this nice win at all.

Change is still needed. We've gone past the point of no return.

[RomfordPele]

the same we all watch.

but after a game everyone, and i mean everyone, expected us to get another pasting in, to walk away with a 2-0 win salvages some pride in the tie, rather than a 6-1 aggregate score to truly make us a laughing stock. i don't care how bayern played because a lot very good teams will go into that stadium, play an off colour bayern and still walk away with nothing. it doesn't change how shabby we have been this season but tonight is the least we should expect every game - effort. and we got it.

if you can't get some sort of pride from this i'd say cancel that ticket, as i did last season, and give it a rest for a while as it's all become a bit too much for you.

Ok, as you've actually bothered to explain your view rather than score a cheap point, I just think this will be used by the club to maintain the status quo. If that's what you want then knock yourself out. But I saw nothing there tonight that we shouldn't be seeing every bloody week from this lot.

It shows how far we have fallen that some of us are toasting it like its a big victory. We lost, and we bottled the last five mins as per usual when we give ourselves a chance. I don't feel any pride in that, sorry.

[Power n Glory]

Giroud is a step down on most of our strikers and he excels at nothing. His control and technique isn't good at all, not dominant in the air or that accurate, shooting is wayward....his movement can be good but he's slow. We need better because we're going nowhere fast with him leading the line.

It's hard to create anything for a guy so limited in pace and ability to control the ball.

[Özim]

The difference this time though is that the fans won't be convinced by this nice win at all.

Change is still needed. We've gone past the point of no return.
Yeah but it's not the fans that matter though, it's the manager he's the one that needs to be under pressure to make changes and sign players....his words about quality and young players (that old chestnut again) showing their quality and him saying this team has a great attitude (before the match he said they had a great attitude compared to any of his teams) really don't fill me with confidence he's going to change anything.

This is the start usual end of season mini revival that convinces him all is good.

[Özim]

Giroud is a step down on most of our strikers and he excels at nothing. His control and technique isn't good at all, not dominant in the air or that accurate, shooting is wayward....his movement can be good but he's slow. We need better because we're going nowhere fast with him leading the line.

It's hard to create anything for a guy so limited in pace and ability to control the ball.
He doesn't even seem to be predatory, so when chances arrive in the box he's always a couple yards away from them as he has very poor instinct and anticipation.

[IBK]

What does this result mean in the end, absolutely nothing....it's all very good saying we beat Bayern etc etc but we've achieved nothing, it would have been an achievement to turn it around and win the tie, it would have shown we've got something about us. Alas every season it's the same, collapse when it matters and win games that in the end don't matter, convince ourselves (the manager) that we're great and start again with the same cycle.

For once it would be good for us to do something that actually means something.

Depends whether you are looking at the match, in which case it means a little relief from the repeated humiliations we have suffered, or in general terms - where a glorious failure makes very little difference to the general trajectory we are on as a club.

[Kano]

Ok, as you've actually bothered to explain your view rather than score a cheap point, I just think this will be used by the club to maintain the status quo. If that's what you want then knock yourself out. But I saw nothing there tonight that we shouldn't be seeing every bloody week from this lot.

It shows how far we have fallen that some of us are toasting it like its a big victory. We lost, and we bottled the last five mins as per usual when we give ourselves a chance. I don't feel any pride in that, sorry.
maybe it will be used to maintain things. maybe it is not a high point of arsenal's history but ffs, if you cannot get any pride at any time from anything arsenal are doing at the moment then i don't get what you are doing watching. i really don't. yes it's been a painfully shit season, led by a manager that needs to go come the summer. anyone with half a mind can see that. if you are telling me your reaction would have been the same with yet another heavy defeat then i know you are lying. you sound disappointed, which if you step back and think about it, was not even a feasible reaction before the game because we all thought we were already out. tie done. no chance at all. not even with 5 minutes to go.

we didn't even expect to be in that position and it's ludicrous to label it as 'bottling'. that's just nuts. what was unacceptable was the performance in the first leg and throwing the whole tie away after 20 mins with absolutely no show of right or retaliation in front of our own fans. that was a low and left everyone feeling less than proud.

going out on away goals, rather than a pounding, getting an important win before travelling to swansea are two very important things right now. or, we can just sit here and cry all the way to may instead of hoping for some sort of miracle to happen. because seriously, without that, what have we got as supporters?

there is no shame in taking a bit of pride from a victory. that is still allowed y'know. it's become a rare thing but it still happens occasionally.

[IBK]

He doesn't even seem to be predatory, so when chances arrive in the box he's always a couple yards away from them as he has very poor instinct and anticipation.

Like for the first goal, you mean? Interesting that he's scored 3 more than RVP did in his first season with us - with a considerably worse MF behind him. As for the long range shot he's being criticised for - did anyone see any of the shite shots fired in by the Bayern players? Not fair to pillory him for that. How many shots did our most expensive player even attempt?

[Kano]

Interesting that he's scored 3 more than RVP did in his first season with us - with a considerably worse MF behind him.
i think that's a poor stat thrown up by the commentator - rvp was far younger with far less starts in the team. giroud is good but as a squad striker. if we ever want to get serious again, he is not the guy to lead our attack and strike worry into opposition defences.

[Power n Glory]

He doesn't even seem to be predatory, so when chances arrive in the box he's always a couple yards away from them as he has very poor instinct and anticipation.

It's really hard to pin point a strength that he has in abundance over all of our other strikers. I though we were buying a predator and a bit of an old school player. The type of player that will lace a bullet in the net if given an inch like Shearer, Batistuta. Or a massive handful of a player like how Christian Vieri who can bounce defenders off him. I wasn't expecting him to have that world class polish but at least have something about him that we could use. It's hard setting up goals for a guy that slow and rubbish in front of goal.

[GP]

Robben is shit.

[Joker]

Like for the first goal, you mean? Interesting that he's scored 3 more than RVP did in his first season with us - with a considerably worse MF behind him. As for the long range shot he's being criticised for - did anyone see any of the shite shots fired in by the Bayern players? Not fair to pillory him for that. How many shots did our most expensive player even attempt?

However RVP was 19 when he first signed for us and a lot of his appearances were as a substitute. Giroud's 26 and on the whole he's been decent, but he lacks that extra quality that you need if you want to at the very least compete for silverware.

[Power n Glory]

Like for the first goal, you mean? Interesting that he's scored 3 more than RVP did in his first season with us - with a considerably worse MF behind him. As for the long range shot he's being criticised for - did anyone see any of the shite shots fired in by the Bayern players? Not fair to pillory him for that. How many shots did our most expensive player even attempt?

That's a crazy comparison when you consider RVP was coming off the bench for the majority of his games and not starting. We'll need better than him if we want to get anywhere or we'll need to figure out a way to utilise his strengths and I can't for the life of me figure out where his strengths are.

[AKBapologist]

Can't blame our center forwards for today, our midfield was shocking. Probably the worst arsenal midfield I've seen in over 15 years.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Like for the first goal, you mean? Interesting that he's scored 3 more than RVP did in his first season with us - with a considerably worse MF behind him. As for the long range shot he's being criticised for - did anyone see any of the shite shots fired in by the Bayern players? Not fair to pillory him for that. How many shots did our most expensive player even attempt?

It was more frustrating because of the context of the game/that particular move to be honest. Could have been a good counter with some players forward which was rare on the night. He has done it a few times - like against Stoke - perhaps anxiety or something.

[IBK]

i think that's a poor stat thrown up by the commentator - rvp was far younger with far less starts in the team. giroud is good but as a squad striker. if we ever want to get serious again, he is not the guy to lead our attack and strike worry into opposition defences.

I accept that - but for me it added a little context. Older or not - Giroud has come from a weaker, less physical league - and it is his first season. I'm not saying he is RVP quality, but I think he is suffering from our disillusionment at RVP being sold. He tries hard enough, and he's not stunk the place up - and he's only 2 behind our 100K player in the league. Personally, I'd go for other scapegoats - starting with the manager.

[Joker]

I accept that - but for me it added a little context. Older or not - Giroud has come from a weaker, less physical league - and it is his first season. I'm not saying he is RVP quality, but I think he is suffering from our disillusionment at RVP being sold. He tries hard enough, and he's not stunk the place up - and he's only 2 behind our 100K player in the league. Personally, I'd go for other scapegoats - starting with the manager.

That's fair, after all someone like Giroud does need good service, he's not going to conjure something out of nothing. The lack of creativity that has been present for most of the season is at least as big a worry. In the past we had midfielders who could thread a pass through the eye of a needle and combine with the forward players to devastating effect. Nowadays there's so much mediocrity in there.

[GP]

Time for Cesc to come home.

[RomfordPele]

maybe it will be used to maintain things. maybe it is not a high point of arsenal's history but ffs, if you cannot get any pride at any time from anything arsenal are doing at the moment then i don't get what you are doing watching. i really don't. yes it's been a painfully shit season, led by a manager that needs to go come the summer. anyone with half a mind can see that. if you are telling me your reaction would have been the same with yet another heavy defeat then i know you are lying. you sound disappointed, which if you step back and think about it, was not even a feasible reaction before the game because we all thought we were already out. tie done. no chance at all. not even with 5 minutes to go.

we didn't even expect to be in that position and it's ludicrous to label it as 'bottling'. that's just nuts. what was unacceptable was the performance in the first leg and throwing the whole tie away after 20 mins with absolutely no show of right or retaliation in front of our own fans. that was a low and left everyone feeling less than proud.

going out on away goals, rather than a pounding, getting an important win before travelling to swansea are two very important things right now. or, we can just sit here and cry all the way to may instead of hoping for some sort of miracle to happen. because seriously, without that, what have we got as supporters?

there is no shame in taking a bit of pride from a victory. that is still allowed y'know. it's become a rare thing but it still happens occasionally.

We will have to agree to disagree mate. Of course I'm glad we didn't get thumped, but I don't think we in any sense outplayed or outfought bayern. We've grown very comfortable with this 'Glorious Loser' / underdog tag (thanks to le boss) and I thought there was a palpable lack of nerve in the last five mins. When it was really up for grabs, we barely managed to get the ball in their box.

Lets see where we are in a couple of games, but I just don't see anything in that performance to get excited about. Sorry, I just don't get it. And as for what we've got as supporters? Well, all many of us have got is the hope that someone is going to come in and get rid of the dross and mediocrity that wenger has saddled us with. This result is only likely to prolong the agony.

[Kano]

I accept that - but for me it added a little context. Older or not - Giroud has come from a weaker, less physical league - and it is his first season. I'm not saying he is RVP quality, but I think he is suffering from our disillusionment at RVP being sold. He tries hard enough, and he's not stunk the place up - and he's only 2 behind our 100K player in the league. Personally, I'd go for other scapegoats - starting with the manager.
i wouldn't go as far as placing him as a scapegoat at all, i just think that he isn't of the calibre we need as our main man to get back into the top four at minimum. the effort cannot be disputed at all and as you say it is his first season so there is room for improvement of course. personally i would have loved to have seen podolski in the centre this season, which was another crazy decision by the manager although lukas has still managed a very decent return from out there.

[Power n Glory]

Can't blame our center forwards for today, our midfield was shocking. Probably the worst arsenal midfield I've seen in over 15 years.

It's bloody awful and your right about that too. Giroud doesn't stand a chance if he's getting nothing fed through. He needs really good service to get goals and he got very little tonight besides two Theo crosses and another chance in the box that he should have passed instead of falling over.

There is no cohesion in that midfield. It's awful and Arteta needs a bench. Pisses me off to see him run away from the ball all the time when our CB's are trying to find an outlet. Cazorla is as bad and plays in patches. Rosicky was really off his game tonight. Ramsey was Ramsey and has no idea what he's doing. Has no sense of positioning and runs around chasing shadows. It's terrible and we've tried all sorts of combinations but we really need to try someone else as DM because Arteta hides way too much and is hardly on the ball.

[Özim]

Like for the first goal, you mean? Interesting that he's scored 3 more than RVP did in his first season with us - with a considerably worse MF behind him. As for the long range shot he's being criticised for - did anyone see any of the shite shots fired in by the Bayern players? Not fair to pillory him for that. How many shots did our most expensive player even attempt?
RVP was what 20 when he arrived, Giroud is 26.

[BOBN]

BONBON :haha:
Eh? Jenkinson was alright but he didnt do much. That was all about Koselny. If vermealen never plays another game for arsenal it will be too soon.

But what about the midfield playing way better without wilshere? GW :pal:

[GP]

Eh? Jenkinson was alright but he didnt do much. That was all about Koselny. If vermealen plays another game for arsenal it will be too soon.

But what about the midfield playing way better without wilshere? GW :pal:

:haha:

[Kano]

We will have to agree to disagree mate. Of course I'm glad we didn't get thumped, but I don't think we in any sense outplayed or outfought bayern. We've grown very comfortable with this 'Glorious Loser' / underdog tag (thanks to le boss) and I thought there was a palpable lack of nerve in the last five mins. When it was really up for grabs, we barely managed to get the ball in their box.

Lets see where we are in a couple of games, but I just don't see anything in that performance to get excited about. Sorry, I just don't get it. And as for what we've got as supporters? Well, all many of us have got is the hope that someone is going to come in and get rid of the dross and mediocrity that wenger has saddled us with. This result is only likely to prolong the agony.
i just think amidst all the misery of this season you still have to take some sort of positives out where you can to keep your head above water to keep watching.

we didn't out play them but the result is all that counts. we've all grown tired of dominating games and getting nothing. i'm not about to fly the flag and boast to everyone we turned over bayern valiantly but i can certainly take some pride in the fact we gave far more than expected, even if it wasn't good enough.

[IBK]

RVP was what 20 when he arrived, Giroud is 26.

See above...

[Marc Overmars]

i just think amidst all the misery of this season you still have to take some sort of positives out where you can to keep your head above water to keep watching.

we didn't out play them but the result is all that counts. we've all grown tired of dominating games and getting nothing. i'm not about to fly the flag and boast to everyone we turned over bayern valiantly but i can certainly take some pride in the fact we gave far more than expected, even if it wasn't good enough.

Bayern's first defeat in 24 games and also an end to their 11 game winning streak.

[GP]

You've got to take a bit of pride in beating Bayern at their own gaff.

[Power n Glory]

We weren't embarrassed, beaten and sent back to London with our tails between our legs. I'd have taken a draw. Can't complain about a win.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

theres no point going off on one, it was done before the game and everyone knows what the problems are.

wasnt expecting that type of performance, fabianski seemed very vocal which was good and kos was immense. verm needs to be dropped asap.

cafu terrific, mert was decent, but rosicky was fucking diabolical. ramsey and arteta shite as well.

so annoyed we always have to put ourselves in a hard position but at least we were good defensively. we had a decent shape about ourselves for once and everyone was tracking back.

very mellow feeling among gooners, almost as if we concede the fact its probably gonna be our last time in the competition for a few years. fuck.

[Marc Overmars]

It's little consolation but we know this team is not very good, so I'll give them a day off.

Until they fuck up this weekend!

[Syn]

I envy those who feel anything other than 'meh'.

[Power n Glory]

Fabs needs a performance because he's got to get himself in the shop window this summer or make a proper claim for the number one spot as GK.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

one more thing, with a world class striker we could have won that tie. giroud is so slow and mechanic when he's on the ball, he takes that extra second to think things through and by the time he shoots the defender has made the tackle. if only we had a certain someone up front.

[Power n Glory]

one more thing, with a world class striker we could have won that tie. giroud is so slow and mechanic when he's on the ball, he takes that extra second to think things through and by the time he shoots the defender has made the tackle. if only we had a certain someone up front.

He's not good enough to create an inch of space for himself so he can pop a shot off. He needs it on a plate otherwise it's curtains. No idea why Wenger would but him and Podolski and set them up this way. Always though he was going for two up front when he bought them and not stick Pod out wide.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Sounds like we played the near perfect game. To beat bayern 2-0 is a fucking huge result. First loss in about 24 games, first loss at home by 2 goals for two years. The problem was the first leg, but tonight the man most refuse to give any credit too got his decisions 100% spot on. Tactics, subs, team etc.

Gutted but proud

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

only the 4th team in 11 years to stop bayern scoring at home.

i was a bit naffed wenger took off walcott. why not go 4-4-2? we had nothing to lose. ox brightened things up when he came on. i think this is the end of the road for rosicky though, he was so poor.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Fair performance (defensively), and an ok result which in the end just wasn't good enough to see us through to the next phase.

We had needed that 2nd goal much earlier if we were really to stand a chance of getting that 3rd. A pity our manager never sees the need to freshen up by way of substitution until we have less than 20 minutes remaining.

[Syn]

Every big game we've played recently: Bayern Munich, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Man City...this is all just in 2013 we've had a terminal first half where we are left in a position where we can't recover from. In all these crunch games we've been 2 goals down before we've scored. As fans we should be happy with effort, and after the terminal first half, there's normally a 'brave' second half. If you're able to separate out the terminal first half out of your mind and applaud the lads off because they've almost managed to get out of the hole they dug themselves into, as I've said I envy you. I've tried to keep doing that but at a certain point you do feel like asking them...fair enough for the almost-heroic fightback...but how about trying to wake up for the start of a big game? 5 times in the space of 3 months. Jenkinson shot Shreeves down by saying 'I only want to focus on the positives today'. I don't think Bayern are separating the halves out like Jenkinson or any fans calling this a win are, because they're through.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Special shout out to the officials who ensured that Theo didn't get his name on the score sheet.

Tired of these inept bastards tainting the game now.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

jenkinson dismissing bacon face's 8 year jibe in the interview afterwards :haha:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9AP9KrNI8CQ#!

shreeves :haha: :haha: :haha:

jenkinsons a bit of a hunk aint he (no homo). arteta looks like a fucking tranny.

[Munchies]

arteta looks like a fucking tranny.

Lol'd haha

[Niall_Quinn]

Interesting reading. Fact is though, we were shit. The defence was better than usual but that's hardly an achievement. The back five was far from good, but they weren't calamitous. A team that were bothered could have easily exploited the huge gaps we were still leaving. But Bayern didn't show up, having concluded they had already won. Turns out they were right. Even with the no show they must have had 20 efforts at goal to our 4 or 5. Pathetic considering we were the team who had to chase. Fabianski looked like an average run of the mill type keeper you'd see in any game at this level. Which is a huge improvement for us of course.

The midfield? Really, really shite. All of them. Ramsey is so awful we effectively are down to 10 when he's on the pitch. Worst thing is he tries, but where the hell has his talent vanished to? He can't even pass a ball, not that he's the only culprit in that respect.

With Walcott you have to judge if his 88 minutes of comically bad play is compensated by the 2 minutes where he can make a difference. We should have much better players than him turning out for us on Euro nights, instead we have Gervinho and what appears to be a wengerised victim in the once promising Chamberlain. Giroud, I assume we can all see, is lower league material at best. He was so out of his depth today it was embarrassing.

The key fact is Bayern treated us like minor league opposition and didn't bother to apply themselves at all. They still bossed the game and still walked off with the result they needed. They were so poor tonight they cut it close and frightened their fans but they were still streets ahead of us in terms of passing and controlling the midfield. That's shocking. A half decent side would have grabbed that extra goal tonight. But it was beyond us. It was such an awful performance Gervinho looked our best player when he came on and we all know how shit he is.

I don't think Wilshere would ave made a difference. We were just a weak and hopeless bunch of losers going through the formality of another exit from another cup competition. Bundling a couple of goals in again a disinterested opponent will be seized as dramatic proof of a revival I suppose, but who is really fooled after 8 years of this shit?

Bollocks is the word that sums it up best. We don't have any and that's how we play.

[fakeyank]

Sounds like we played the near perfect game. To beat bayern 2-0 is a fucking huge result. First loss in about 24 games, first loss at home by 2 goals for two years. The problem was the first leg, but tonight the man most refuse to give any credit too got his decisions 100% spot on. Tactics, subs, team etc.

Gutted but proud

He didnt get his team right or else Ramsey would be nowhere near it. I dont want to give him any credit tbh.. he threw us in this hole and serious questions must be asked why we start games/ties with such lethargy... like Syn mentioned, all the 'big' games in 2013, last year against Milan etc, why do we start as if we are just strolling in the park. Why is it that the performance is good only when there is no pressure? Is it because the manager cannot motivate the players or just that he bought a bunch of bottlers.. either way, he is paid 7 million quid a year to take care of stuff like that!
I will find it within myself to give him some credit when we can atleast have a consistently good 'half a season'! Anyway, dont want this to become a Wenger debate... we all know his time as manager of Arsenal FC is holding us back from moving forward. Let's just rejoice in possibly our last CL game in a while! :scarf:

:(

[Joker]

Interesting player ratings from Arseblog:

http://news.arseblog.com/2013/03/bayern-munich-0-2-arsenal-player-ratings/

[Power n Glory]

6/10 performances for Giroud, Ramsey and Arteta imo. All very average.

[Power n Glory]

He didnt get his team right or else Ramsey would be nowhere near it. I dont want to give him any credit tbh.. he threw us in this hole and serious questions must be asked why we start games/ties with such lethargy... like Syn mentioned, all the 'big' games in 2013, last year against Milan etc, why do we start as if we are just strolling in the park. Why is it that the performance is good only when there is no pressure? Is it because the manager cannot motivate the players or just that he bought a bunch of bottlers.. either way, he is paid 7 million quid a year to take care of stuff like that!
I will find it within myself to give him some credit when we can atleast have a consistently good 'half a season'! Anyway, dont want this to become a Wenger debate... we all know his time as manager of Arsenal FC is holding us back from moving forward. Let's just rejoice in possibly our last CL game in a while! :scarf:

:(

Wenger needs to consider dropping Cazorla and Ramsey. He should be making better use of his squad. Pretty sure Arshavin can provide some goals and assists if he plays. Ox also needs games and Gervinho on the left too. Too many below par performances for this game and players were hiding.

[Letters]

Every big game we've played recently: Bayern Munich, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Man City...this is all just in 2013 we've had a terminal first half where we are left in a position where we can't recover from. In all these crunch games we've been 2 goals down before we've scored. As fans we should be happy with effort, and after the terminal first half, there's normally a 'brave' second half. If you're able to separate out the terminal first half out of your mind and applaud the lads off because they've almost managed to get out of the hole they dug themselves into, as I've said I envy you. I've tried to keep doing that but at a certain point you do feel like asking them...fair enough for the almost-heroic fightback...but how about trying to wake up for the start of a big game? 5 times in the space of 3 months. Jenkinson shot Shreeves down by saying 'I only want to focus on the positives today'. I don't think Bayern are separating the halves out like Jenkinson or any fans calling this a win are, because they're through.:gp:

[LDG]

Means nothing to me.

If Bayern had needed to win the game, they would have. This is like papering over the cracks with value brand loo roll.

[Grebbo]

Good effort from the lads. WTF was Arteta thinking in the last few minutes??!! Shit freekick and kept fouling. So stupid.

Positives for me were Kos and Flappyanski.

Our midfield and attackers were a bit shit though.

[Kano]

Wenger needs to consider dropping Cazorla and Ramsey. He should be making better use of his squad. Pretty sure Arshavin can provide some goals and assists if he plays. Ox also needs games and Gervinho on the left too. Too many below par performances for this game and players were hiding.
i think we can def guarantee 6th spot with that lot coming in.

[IBK]

Means nothing to me.

If Bayern had needed to win the game, they would have. This is like papering over the cracks with value brand loo roll.

I see where you are coming from - but I would temper this by their amazing record both in terms of home defeats and of goals scored. The tempo was slow, yes, but Bayern are a top top team and playing at home in front of 68,000 fans. We are undoubtedly a mediocre team, but taking this game in isolation, I am prepared to cut our back 5 some slack for their efforts.

[Power n Glory]

The defence played well. There were no major individual mistakes which makes a change. Expected Fabs to flap at a corner or butter fingers up a shot or two but he didn't. Some good tackles from the defence and no crazy mix ups with positioning.

[Kano]

I see where you are coming from - but I would temper this by their amazing record both in terms of home defeats and of goals scored. The tempo was slow, yes, but Bayern are a top top team and playing at home in front of 68,000 fans. We are undoubtedly a mediocre team, but taking this game in isolation, I am prepared to cut our back 5 some slack for their efforts.
i agree with that. i think it is far too easy to say that if bayern wanted to hammer us they could've. well given how professional and clinical those fuckers are, my guess is that they sure as hell wanted to pound us again. they obviously expected it to be easier and started with the wrong mentality and our organised defence kept them outside of our box for most of the game. i'm also convinced that they for two years they have had their fair share of dodgy performances yet always had enough to roll over the opposition, no matter who they are, so of course we deserve credit for a victory there. teams start games with the wrong approach, as we all know from our experiences, and the point is to take advantage of that, which we did. it is still bayern, no set of mugs, so a 3-0 win no matter what their performance is bloody hard task no matter who it is.

we fucked up in the first leg, pure and simple. the start of our second half at the emirates and our more organised approach show that we could and should've made more of a game of the first leg, which is where we messed everything up as usual.

people are right to say we should be turning up in the first leg/half of ties, that is obvious. we've all seen that pain this year. but if the team do as, and if not better, than expected, then i think it's fair to still give credit where it is due. otherwise we never will and everything, absolutely everything, becomes bitter, sad and an absolutely horrible experience. pretty pointless to. football is supposed to be fun in part.

[LDG]

I see where you are coming from - but I would temper this by their amazing record both in terms of home defeats and of goals scored. The tempo was slow, yes, but Bayern are a top top team and playing at home in front of 68,000 fans. We are undoubtedly a mediocre team, but taking this game in isolation, I am prepared to cut our back 5 some slack for their efforts.

Fair enough in terms of the way we defended, though on another day, they could and should have had a few themselves. Don't forget they were also short of three world class players.

I'm not necessarliy criticising the game itself, but in the whole context, it is pointless to herald the team for what will surely be another false dawn.

Why do they deserve my praise? They'll get it if they start putting that kind of effort in consistently. I've always said, as long as they try, I'm behind them. But doing it once we've already been pasted isn't good enough.

[Letters]

The defence played well. There were no major individual mistakes which makes a change.
There were, we just weren't punished for them. Perhaps not as bad as some of the mistakes we've made but there were some, a few clearances which fell straight to a Bayern player, etc.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I am going to post my reaction to the score as I havent seen the match yet.

First I would like to say well done to the lads for putting a bit of pride back into the club (I do not know who played shit so the message goes to the whole team), I hoped that we would be able to put in somewhat of a credible performance and we seemed to have done that.

However, as with the season as a whole we did ourselves no favours in the first leg and until we can stop being a walking brain fart of a club, things may never change.

I said at the start of the season that even if we won every trophy available I would consider the way we prepared for the start as a failure, the selling off and failure to replace key members of our starting eleven handicapped us beyond repair. How a team can go into a four front season with one recognised striker (some doubt Giroud is even that and Walcott was still plying his trade out wide come season start) is ridiculous.

We must learn, whether its the board, manager or team. . .until we cease with putting ourselves at a disadvantage the trophyless seasons will continue.

Glorious failure

[Marc Overmars]

I think the shape of the team was better, Bayern only managed to get in behind us once and that was with Mullers clever backheel to set Robben free. Other than that we mainly limited them to pot shots from outside the box.

Overall though I do believe Bayern would have moved up a gear if they were facing a better side or if they weren't already in a commanding position.

We scored from the only 2 attempts on target we had, it was an efficient performance rather than one filled with quality.

[Power n Glory]

There were, we just weren't punished for them. Perhaps not as bad as some of the mistakes we've made but there were some, a few clearances which fell straight to a Bayern player, etc.

I’m not saying it was perfect. There were minor errors but nothing major or comical like we’ve seen in the past where there is poor marking, awareness and we fail to do the very basics. Still a long road to go but they were switched on at the back at least.

[Kano]

I think the shape of the team was better, Bayern only managed to get in behind us once and that was with Mullers clever backheel to set Robben free. Other than that we mainly limited them to pot shots from outside the box.

Overall though I do believe Bayern would have moved up a gear if they were facing a better side or if they weren't already in a commanding position.
i think it is far too easy to say that. teams have off days, no matter who they. the gears can't always be clicked through like magic at the touch of a button. if you start the game with the wrong approach, and by all accounts they did, then that task becomes harder. going 1-0 down at the start would have course set off some alarm bells for them and if they weren't interested, they literally would've just played keep ball. they're a great team who can destroy most teams and i believe with their habits, why wouldn't they want to have fun smashing yet another team in front of their home fans? they wanted to of course, but they couldn't. we contributed to that. hard to believe i know, but we did. let's just enjoy a victory. there's no shame. it doesn't mean any lasting change or any cosmic shift in wenger's team but we're allowed to take satisfaction from beating one of the worlds best teams.

[Letters]

I’m not saying it was perfect. There were minor errors but nothing major or comical like we’ve seen in the past where there is poor marking, awareness and we fail to do the very basics. Still a long road to go but they were switched on at the back at least.
Yes, it was definitely better. They only got in behind us once when Robben broke free, most of the rest of their chances were pot-shots from distance which were generally well closed down.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Great performance.. Arteta shouldve been replaced by Diaby. The defense was brilliant.. Gibbs makes a big difference and also to note, the absence of Vermaelen! Biggest liability of a captain. Why cant we defend like this more regularly?! Why do we have to play for absolutely nothing to perform at this level? This clearly shows that out shitness has more to do with attitude than actual talent.

The effort. . .passion, call it what you will is a big issue for me. . .so many games could be won or at least not lost if we took a leaf (dare I say it?) Utd's book.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Lets hope we keep the same mentality. . .asking a bit much though for two games on the bounce

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Because Wenget has made Vermaelen captain?

Because of Vermaelen's captaincy, Koscielny is dropped?

Because he dropped Jenkinson despite his consistently excellent performances?

Because Gibbs is always injured?

Because we have no defensive-minded midfielders?

Because we don't defend well as a team?

Because/MS :bow:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Fabianski new number 1?

Kos, Rosicky and GHELkinson first choice from now on?

Or does computer say no?


If anything Fabs deserves the #1 because of Ches's lame arse excuse for not playing. . .although the excuse haa lots of Wumgerness about it

Kos should be playing instead of Verms, terrible decision to make him captain thus forcing his inclusion in every starting 11

Rosicky to provide a rerun of the drive that saw us nick fourth last term?

[Özim]

Our defending was better last night no doubt about it, we still made errors but less than usual.

Overall Bayern just didn't turn up, the nature of the game and them being 3-1 up and being told the tie is over (that's what they said everyone thought in Germany) clearly didn't help their mentality, they didn't really know what to do and were unprofessional on the night IMO.

We won yes, but had what 4 shots on goal, we didn't exactly lay siege on their goal, we just caught an off colour Bayern and played well defensively....at no point did we look like winning the tie, there was no pouring forward putting Bayern under intense pressure, even after going 2-0 up there wasn't a huge amount of urgency and if anything Bayern then controlled the game and we didn't get a sniff.

I agree with LDG had the first leg been a bit different Bayern would have played a different game and beaten us comfortably. Good win without question but another totally pointless win I'd rather have beaten Blackburn in the FA Cup as that would mean something.

[Power n Glory]

Lets hope we keep the same mentality. . .asking a bit much though for two games on the bounce

We really need more than that. The defence was a lot better but the midfield and attack was woeful. Bad decisions, sloppy passes poor touches and positioning, players hiding. I thought they’d really be up for this game but a lot of the players were really tame. Very slow to close down the ball and not compact enough when defending or attacking. I remember Jenko losing his shit when he was going forward with the ball and nobody was making themselves available for a pass when he was getting closed down. Annoys me to see that sort of thing and players like Arteta pointing away so he doesn’t receive the pass instead of trying to get into space to alleviate the pressure. You never see that crap with Barca. They all make themselves available even in tight spaces where only a touch can be played for a simple one two. What’s happened to our triangle passes and bouncing one twos around the opposition in the midfield?

[LDG]

The next ten games is arguably the most important set of games the club has had for a long time.

If we fail to compete, or die away without a whimper, it really does spell worse times to come for the club.

[BOBN]

Kos should be playing instead of Verms, terrible decision to make him captain thus forcing his inclusion in every starting 11


Back when the "who should be the next captain?" thread was made way back when, 95% of you were rejoicing at the thought of it being vermalean.

You dont have the right to jump down wengers throat about it now.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

However RVP was 19 when he first signed for us and a lot of his appearances were as a substitute. Giroud's 26 and on the whole he's been decent, but he lacks that extra quality that you need if you want to at the very least compete for silverware.

I agree with this. I dont hate Giroud, I see the effort he puts in and I am happy for him when he scores as I hope it means a start of a run of goals but he doesnt have tbe constant threat/match winning qiality that RvP did. . .nor does Walcott so we do really need to find the kind of player that can win us games with a flash of genius. Giroud on the bench is a much better option than Chamakh or Bender

[Xhaka Can’t]

Means nothing to me.

If Bayern had needed to win the game, they would have. This is like papering over the cracks with value brand loo roll.

For years it has been my ambition to launch my own value brand of toilet paper.

It will be called 'Brownfinger'.

[Letters]

The next ten games is arguably the most important set of games the club has had for a long time.

If we fail to compete, or die away without a whimper, it really does spell worse times to come for the club.
:ilt:

[Letters]

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/-this-will-help-us-in-premier-league-

:blah:

Less chat, more results.

[Kano]

it's the arsenal website, you have to expect corporate bravado. that's what it's there for.

[Letters]

it's the arsenal website, you have to expect corporate bravado. that's what it's there for.
Well sure, but it does wear you down when you get this bullshit spouted over and over and not translated into results.

[Kano]

don't visit the site? it's far more optional than bumping into stories everywhere in the media, which can grind, i agree.

[Letters]

don't visit the site?
I generally don't.

[Ollie the Optimist]

forgot to post this earlier, but i fucking love carl jenkinson. a man who gives everything to the club he loves. and for telling that **** shreeves to pretty much fuck off.


jenkinson :bow:

[Özim]

forgot to post this earlier, but i fucking love carl jenkinson. a man who gives everything to the club he loves. and for telling that **** shreeves to pretty much fuck off.


jenkinson :bow:
What for celebrating a pointless win and ignoring the important questions. Let's rejoice in our pointless win and not focus on the important problems.

Yeah well done.

[Kano]

yeah let's just stay completely miserable about everything. that's what i'd prefer.

[Letters]

yeah let's just stay completely miserable about everything. that's what i'd prefer.
Well no, but why does it always have to be so extreme?
Tonight was a good result but we've seen these results before when we're under no pressure (as we were expected to go out) and the other side aren't at the races ('cos they're certain to go through). Bayern switched off so much last night we gave them a scare, but there is a pretty clear pattern of us getting these results.

If we back it up with a win at the weekend then great, that would be a good result in a difficult game. Let's not over-react to last night's win, good as it was. You need to look at the context of it.

[Kano]

absolutely no one has overreacted to the victory, at least on here. all that has happened is some fans have taken a bit of pride from one game, without for one second thinking this means everything changes from here on in. if anything, there has been a counter reaction to rubbish a victory in a game. no one is asking for fans perceptions to change - i still believe we'll finish fifth as i always have - but geez, wallowing and dismissing anything positive at any given time does nothing.

[Power n Glory]

Well no, but why does it always have to be so extreme?
Tonight was a good result but we've seen these results before when we're under no pressure (as we were expected to go out) and the other side aren't at the races ('cos they're certain to go through). Bayern switched off so much last night we gave them a scare, but there is a pretty clear pattern of us getting these results.

If we back it up with a win at the weekend then great, that would be a good result in a difficult game. Let's not over-react to last night's win, good as it was. You need to look at the context of it.

I’m with you. It was a good result and we didn’t get crushed but there is still work to be done because it looked as though neither team got out of 1st gear last night. I wouldn’t call it a brave or battling performance but it’s a result…even if a tad bit meaningless because we’re out of the competition.

[Syn]

Apart from the weirdos who couldn't say something original or interesting if their life depended on it, it's not a choice to feel happy or disappointed or proud or whatever. As I've said it's all about whether you can still separate out the ridiculous lack of preparation or concentration that gets us into positions we can't recover from. 5 big games in 2013, all 5 pretty much gone in the first half when we're 2-0, in some cases in the first 15-20 mins.

The first time it happens you're thinking we'll it's pretty stupid but decent fight back, at least they showed some balls and maybe we can learn for next time. The second time it happens you're thinking similarly. Third time, fourth time. 5th time I'm thinking, 'you bunch of idiots'. No one expects us to win all the big games but to self-sabotage your chances of winning, in record speed, in all 5 is a bit ridiculous.

[LDG]

Apart from the weirdos who couldn't say something original or interesting if their life depended on it, it's not a choice to feel happy or disappointed or proud or whatever. As I've said it's all about whether you can still separate out the ridiculous lack of preparation or concentration that gets us into positions we can't recover from. 5 big games in 2013, all 5 pretty much gone in the first half when we're 2-0, in some cases in the first 15-20 mins.

The first time it happens you're thinking we'll it's pretty stupid but decent fight back, at least they showed some balls and maybe we can learn for next time. The second time it happens you're thinking similarly. Third time, fourth time. 5th time I'm thinking, 'you bunch of idiots'. No one expects us to win all the big games but to self-sabotage your chances of winning, in record speed, in all 5 is a bit ridiculous.

Yup. Which is why I'm pretty dvoid of any emotion about this result.

What is important, is that we do a job for the next ten games. We need to actually start thinking of being solid and ugly before we even start thinking of where we may end up.

If the application and sheer-bloody-mindedness that we will not be beaten, is put into each performance, from the first whistle; and if we respect each game, paying heed to the opposition, then I'll get on board and give credit where it's due.

But we have yet to prove anything near that kind of consistency and respect this year. You only get credit when you start doing it week in week out. becuase that is what professionals do.

[Niall_Quinn]

absolutely no one has overreacted to the victory, at least on here. all that has happened is some fans have taken a bit of pride from one game, without for one second thinking this means everything changes from here on in. if anything, there has been a counter reaction to rubbish a victory in a game. no one is asking for fans perceptions to change - i still believe we'll finish fifth as i always have - but geez, wallowing and dismissing anything positive at any given time does nothing.

There was nothing positive from that game, not a single thing. The result is measured over two legs so we lost, we didn't win. The worst aspect was the way Bayern treated us like total shit and we let them away with it because our players are so sub-standard they simply couldn't get a fairly straightforward job done against a team that had arrogantly made the biggest mistake you can make in sport, assuming a result. There's no glory or pride in failure when it comes on the back of eight years of the same. This was us falling at yet another hurdle, only this time the challenge was easy. Forget about the away game against the potential winners and being two goals down. That's not who we played last night. We were playing against a team that was talking about their next opponents and dismissed us like we were shit on their shoes. More fool them, they almost paid the price and would have done against any half decent team. But they were playing us so they got away with it. The idea there was any element of success last night shows how the mentality of averageness has seeped through the club. That horrendous tappy game we play and now with players who can't even pass, it drives me up the wall.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yup. Which is why I'm pretty dvoid of any emotion about this result.

What is important, is that we do a job for the next ten games. We need to actually start thinking of being solid and ugly before we even start thinking of where we may end up.

If the application and sheer-bloody-mindedness that we will not be beaten, is put into each performance, from the first whistle; and if we respect each game, paying heed to the opposition, then I'll get on board and give credit where it's due.

But we have yet to prove anything near that kind of consistency and respect this year. You only get credit when you start doing it week in week out. becuase that is what professionals do.

That's right. Ten more performances grinding it out and we might, just might, nab 4th spot. Our trophy. If we can find consistency in our terrible averageness we can slog past another average team and grab a crumb. The owners and manager of this club have really sold us a lemon to suck on. What is it about this club? They actually had a chance last night when nobody gave them a prayer. Bayern did us every favour they possibly could short of score for us. We have a player like Walcott who is shit at everything he does except using his pace to unsettle defences. So we play is square and backwards and slowly, maybe because we do things the Arsenal way and find doing what it takes to win distasteful. Well now we have our manners intact and another sordid season under our belts. I'd have put money on Stoke getting a result last night, but I wouldn't put a penny on us.

[Xhaka Can’t]

To say there was nothing positive from the game is over egging it.

I thought Fabianski was a positive. He hasn't been party to our recent collapses and he looked assured.

I really hope Wenger keeps him in the side to build on that.

The fact that I have doubts that Wenger will keep him in the side speaks volumes however about my confidence in Wenger to make the sensible decision in any situation.

[Niall_Quinn]

To say there was nothing positive from the game is over egging it.

I thought Fabianski was a positive. He hasn't been party to our recent collapses and he looked assured.

I really hope Wenger keeps him in the side to build on that.

The fact that I have doubts that Wenger will keep him in the side speaks volumes however about my confidence in Wenger to make the sensible decision in any situation.

No, it's not. Judge them when the season is over they say. Well it's over. We lost. It's been a dreadful season. The players are shit.

[Letters]

What is important, is that we do a job for the next ten games. We need to actually start thinking of being solid and ugly.
I think you've got that covered.


:patrice:

[LDG]

I think you've got that covered.


:patrice:

Harsh on the future Mrs LDG :sulk:

[PGFC]

Harsh on the future Mrs LDG :sulk:

In more ways than one.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-column-arsene-wenger-wrong-1763084

[Özim]

I read the comments from Wenger about English football being in decline, what he failed to point out is that we've been going out before the QF for a few years now, not the other teams and yet he never pointed to our failings.

English teams have had a bad season but Man U gave real game and as mentioned Chelsea won it last season and these teams will be back next season........not so sure about us, we have definitely been in decline, something he refuses to acknowledge, he still talks about our quality, spirit and the mentality of the team without recognising it's his weakest group of players and that there's barely a world class player in the squad.

He's so good at deflecting criticism away from us and pretending everything is rosy, this is what makes me think he won't make many changes in the summer, it's the same cycle repeating itself over and over again, I simply don't understand how anyone could keep making the same errors for so long.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

absolutely no one has overreacted to the victory, at least on here. all that has happened is some fans have taken a bit of pride from one game, without for one second thinking this means everything changes from here on in. if anything, there has been a counter reaction to rubbish a victory in a game. no one is asking for fans perceptions to change - i still believe we'll finish fifth as i always have - but geez, wallowing and dismissing anything positive at any given time does nothing.

to be honest we're winning fuck all trophies and don't sign big players so these type of performances are the only thing we can celebrate nowadays. backs against the wall and we ended up winning, its like a little trophy for us. its pathetic but it is what it is. we know who's to blame for it.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

one more thing,

@NorthBankDanAFC
I just met a Bayern fan arriving back in London after the game. He said Arsenal have the best away fans he's ever seen in The Allianze Arena.

fucking hell lads :bow: :bow:

[Letters]

one more thing,

@NorthBankDanAFC
I just met a Bayern fan arriving back in London after the game. He said Arsenal have the best away fans he's ever seen in The Allianze Arena.

fucking hell lads :bow: :bow::partytime:

[Özil's Panoramic View]

to be honest,n,,b we're winning fuck all trophies and don't sign big players so these type of performances are the only thing we can celebrate nowadays. backs against the wall and we ended up winning, its like a little trophy for us. its pathetic but it is what it is. we know who's to blame for it.

Our fans having a nutter for Giroud's goal:

http://t.co/kODGjY1vWu

Away fans :bow:

Alwsomeness :bow:

[Power n Glory]

I read the comments from Wenger about English football being in decline, what he failed to point out is that we've been going out before the QF for a few years now, not the other teams and yet he never pointed to our failings.

English teams have had a bad season but Man U gave real game and as mentioned Chelsea won it last season and these teams will be back next season........not so sure about us, we have definitely been in decline, something he refuses to acknowledge, he still talks about our quality, spirit and the mentality of the team without recognising it's his weakest group of players and that there's barely a world class player in the squad.

He's so good at deflecting criticism away from us and pretending everything is rosy, this is what makes me think he won't make many changes in the summer, it's the same cycle repeating itself over and over again, I simply don't understand how anyone could keep making the same errors for so long.

Chelsea finished outside of the top 4 last year and there is a possibility the same will happen again this year. I think Wenger has point because this isn't an agenda he's all of a sudden conjured up. In the build all they talked about was us being the last English team in the competition and he continued the dialogue. He’s not wrong even if we are in decline as a force. Chelsea went out early, they’re supposed to be the defending champs, City went out early (Prem Champs), Man Utd are out and this isn’t the best team they’ve had…we’re seeing a lot of English teams in transition at the moment. The top teams are nowhere near as strong as what they were 3-4 years ago.

[Alpha]

Anyone who cant praise the team for what for they did Yesterday can consider himself not a true gooner . We all know Bayern Munich have more quality than us .After what happened in the first game , many were expecting us to be humiliated and were praying for the score honourable .Most would have settled for a draw before kick-off. Now , Arsenal have done much more than that . Beating mighty at home but what they get is sticks from thier own fans . That is more than ridiculous

[Syn]

Alpha as fuck!

[topgun]

He's so good at deflecting criticism away from us and pretending everything is rosy, this is what makes me think he won't make many changes in the summer, it's the same cycle repeating itself over and over again, I simply don't understand how anyone could keep making the same errors for so long.

Well if you were getting 7 millon a year for taking the club backwards and pulling the wool over people's eyes for so long you would keep it going as long as possible also,that's 56 million in your bank account for the last eight years,nice money when you can get it and no sign of it stopping anytime soon.Keep up the good work.

[LDG]

Alpha as fuck!

:haha:

[Cripps_orig]

Would rather we won as we did than lose as i expected

Some positives from the game, some negatives. If we can keep on with the positives and learn from the negatives ie never play Arteta again then we can say its the match where we started to get our Arsenal back. However the likelihood is we'll see the same old shit v Swansea.

[Özim]

Chelsea finished outside of the top 4 last year and there is a possibility the same will happen again this year. I think Wenger has point because this isn't an agenda he's all of a sudden conjured up. In the build all they talked about was us being the last English team in the competition and he continued the dialogue. He’s not wrong even if we are in decline as a force. Chelsea went out early, they’re supposed to be the defending champs, City went out early (Prem Champs), Man Utd are out and this isn’t the best team they’ve had…we’re seeing a lot of English teams in transition at the moment. The top teams are nowhere near as strong as what they were 3-4 years ago.
Chelsea won it last season you can't get better than that, Man U got beaten but what is IMO the best team in the competition but gave them a real game....Man City are inexperienced in the CL and have disappointed but they're better than they have shown.

I agree we're not where we were 4-5 years ago but there's still good enough to get into the latter stages, us on the other hand we've been rubbish for a while and never had a hope of winning this thing or even getting to the latter stages without a very favourable draw.

The guy on the one hand analyses English football and says they should watch out and on the other hand praises 4th place and qualifying for the CL for 15 years despite have failed totally in the last few years.

At what point does the guy stop deflecting the attention away from his own team which have been sadly lacking in many departments, something he fails to acknowledge year after year.

[Power n Glory]

Chelsea won it last season you can't get better than that, Man U got beaten but what is IMO the best team in the competition but gave them a real game....Man City are inexperienced in the CL and have disappointed but they're better than they have shown.

I agree we're not where we were 4-5 years ago but there's still good enough to get into the latter stages, us on the other hand we've been rubbish for a while and never had a hope of winning this thing or even getting to the latter stages without a very favourable draw.

The guy on the one hand analyses English football and says they should watch out and on the other hand praises 4th place and qualifying for the CL for 15 years despite have failed totally in the last few years.

At what point does the guy stop deflecting the attention away from his own team which have been sadly lacking in many departments, something he fails to acknowledge year after year.

If journalists were sharp they'd ask what he'd do if UEFA took away one of the Prem's champs league spot. He can forget about 4the being like a trophy then. :lol:

He can often deflect attention away but I think it's been a part of discussions this week since we were the last team in the comp.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

i agree with that. i think it is far too easy to say that if bayern wanted to hammer us they could've. well given how professional and clinical those fuckers are, my guess is that they sure as hell wanted to pound us again. they obviously expected it to be easier and started with the wrong mentality and our organised defence kept them outside of our box for most of the game. i'm also convinced that they for two years they have had their fair share of dodgy performances yet always had enough to roll over the opposition, no matter who they are, so of course we deserve credit for a victory there. teams start games with the wrong approach, as we all know from our experiences, and the point is to take advantage of that, which we did. it is still bayern, no set of mugs, so a 3-0 win no matter what their performance is bloody hard task no matter who it is.

we fucked up in the first leg, pure and simple. the start of our second half at the emirates and our more organised approach show that we could and should've made more of a game of the first leg, which is where we messed everything up as usual.

people are right to say we should be turning up in the first leg/half of ties, that is obvious. we've all seen that pain this year. but if the team do as, and if not better, than expected, then i think it's fair to still give credit where it is due. otherwise we never will and everything, absolutely everything, becomes bitter, sad and an absolutely horrible experience. pretty pointless to. football is supposed to be fun in part.

:goodpost:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

We did ourselves absolutely no favours at all in the first leg we the kind of mentality that has becime all too familiar over this ever increasing barren spell - Wenger said himself third goal we cinceded at home was a killer.
However we went out there and put in a display that we can be proud of. . .and make no mistake those of us who are proud are not disillusional at the same time. . .we still,see the massive need for a overhaul in almost every facet of the club apart from the pies!

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

in a bar in munich :haha:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN28j_d7OFc

spurs getting mocked everywhere. love it.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Chelsea win it, spend close to 100 million go out at group stages, unit go out at group stages last year, first knockout stage this year, and they were beaten by a good team yes but still hardly a great two years, city fail both times, we fail too. It's not that hard to see why English football in Europe can be seen as declining as a whole rather then just arsenal

[Özim]

They won it though and the English clubs have just had a bad year, Man U faced the best side in the competition (but gave it a good go) so you can see why they went out, Man City just didn't perform how they can....they are much better than they showed, just look at the quality of their squad.

We're the weakest of the lot (this is despite Benitez being in charge at Chelsea, he's sh*t) and we're the ones in decline here and have been for a number of years and yet never a mention about us other than some utter sh*t about quality and spirit.

I personally hope English football is in decline because then we'll lose 4th place as a CL qualifying spot and that would be great, the teams doing well in the Europa league won't be helping though.

[Globalgunner]

The tie was lost in the first leg but havent we been here before?. last year same story, the man Wenger and his legion of followers make the same mistakes every year and fail to see the errors of their ways. Last year it was Milan, this year bayern, next year it will be PSG or Porto or Juve. It makes no difference. If a man is shit as his job you should relieve him of it. The errors go back to the group stage. If you top your group you invariably get a better (weaker) opposnent. Though with us with Wenger at the hel I cannot think of a team that I would have bet on us beating over the 2 legs. Wenger simply doesnt have it in him to plot a way to success. He just goes through the same routine in training and sends the boys out with the same instructions. " Just play your game chaps, the goals will come". Failure to plan is planning to fail. If wenger is here next season we will be having this exact same conversation tis time 2014.

If Wenger could not crack the CL with his squad of 1998-2004. He never will. IMHO HE was the weak link in those squads, they succeeded inspite of his cluelesness. Mourinho or Fergie would have won at least 2 CL with those teams and more than 3 EPL trophies.

[Kano]

Chelsea win it, spend close to 100 million go out at group stages, unit go out at group stages last year, first knockout stage this year, and they were beaten by a good team yes but still hardly a great two years, city fail both times, we fail too. It's not that hard to see why English football in Europe can be seen as declining as a whole rather then just arsenal
Course it is and it was bound to happen because no league can sustain being near the top of the tree forever. Last year only one team made it into the quarter finals and although Chelsea went onto win it, the horrible style in which they achieved it was a rare, rare achievement, so no real indication that English football was still on the up. The lack of other teams was far more of an indication of the way things were heading and confirmed this season. All of this is compounded by the severe drop in quality we have seen week on week in the Premier, so it is no surprise English teams are struggling to compete in the top tier European competition.

Of course Wenger was partly defecting, that is what he and every other manger will attempt to do in the face of a defeat but the general point stands – the Premier is gash and for all the posturing of being ‘The Best League in the World!!’, it really, really isn’t.

[Özim]

English football isn't where it was 4-5 years ago when it dominated however European teams have got better IMO, 4-5 years ago there didn't seem to be a huge amount of quality, this season there seems to be a lot more quality teams around.

I don't think there's anything to worry about anyway, they'll be back next season for sure.

[LDG]

German teams have rebuilt from within their own country, and it is a model the FA should have followed. But they were too concerned about John Terry, Ashley Cole and Wayne fucking Rooney.

When the Germans slid down the ranks of world football in 2000, they went home and did something about it. Hence you see the Gomez's, the Schwinestigers (sp), Ozil's etc etc etc.

Then the teams within the top tier built on that and added depth to their squads with talent from abroad. Talent which the EPL didn't want to gamble on.

As far as the Prem goes. Utd will always be there or there abouts. If City get a decent manager, they'll challenge, and Chelsea, Spuds etc will probably do well too.

Whilst Wenger is right that the English league needs to be careful, I think some of it was to cover his own failings this year in not building a better squad of players.

[Kano]

English football isn't where it was 4-5 years ago when it dominated however European teams have got better IMO, 4-5 years ago there didn't seem to be a huge amount of quality, this season there seems to be a lot more quality teams around.

I don't think there's anything to worry about anyway, they'll be back next season for sure.
There is no evidence at all to indicate that, in fact, it all points to a decline in standard for a while. Just saying 'we'll be back next season' doesn't make it so. Europe has got better and the standard in our league has dropped. You have to look at the bigger picture of how the teams have stopped qualifying for latter stages of the CL and the standard in the Prem - they go hand in hand. Forget 4-5 years, its not even where it was 3 years ago.

[Özim]

There is no evidence at all to indicate that, in fact, it all points to a decline in standard for a while. Just saying 'we'll be back next season' doesn't make it so. Europe has got better and the standard in our league has dropped. You have to look at the bigger picture of how the teams have stopped qualifying for latter stages of the CL and the standard in the Prem - they go hand in hand. Forget 4-5 years, its not even where it was 3 years ago.
Man City are a top side, so are Man U both will challenge...Man U did pretty well this season against the best side in the competition. I think you'll see that next season they will progress further that's unless they get drawn against the best sides in which case it's a bit of a lottery.

The German teams have improved a lot and Barca and Real are certainly better than ever in terms of quality, then you have Juve who seem to be leading an Italian recovery and PSG who have the spending power to bring in top quality, that's a much stronger line-up than 4-5 years ago when there were maybe two other teams other than the English teams who could challenge.

Now sure we've had better English teams however the current best sides in England can and will compete, it's the likes of us who should worry because we're being left behind, devoid of quality, devoid of that hunger to succeed we're going to struggle unless we start bringing in world class players.

The cream of the English sides will always be up there, they have the financial muscle and the quality of players to compete.

[Letters]

We've won 13 out of 28 league games and we're 5th, not a million miles away from 3rd, especially if we win our game in hand.
I think that tells you everything you need to know about the quality of the PL this year.

[Kano]

Man City are a top side, so are Man U both will challenge...Man U did pretty well this season against the best side in the competition. I think you'll see that next season they will progress further that's unless they get drawn against the best sides in which case it's a bit of a lottery.

The German teams have improved a lot and Barca and Real are certainly better than ever in terms of quality, then you have Juve who seem to be leading an Italian recovery and PSG who have the spending power to bring in top quality, that's a much stronger line-up than 4-5 years ago when there were maybe two other teams other than the English teams who could challenge.

Now sure we've had better English teams however the current best sides in England can and will compete, it's the likes of us who should worry because we're being left behind, devoid of quality, devoid of that hunger to succeed we're going to struggle unless we start bringing in world class players.

The cream of the English sides will always be up there, they have the financial muscle and the quality of players to compete.
so basically you're basing it on perception, rather than anything factual or historical from the past couple of seasons. guess we'll see.

[Özim]

so basically you're basing it on perception, rather than anything factual or historical from the past couple of seasons. guess we'll see.
Last season Chelsea won it, there's your evidence and you can't write it off as "luck" etc etc because that's not tangible, after all we have managed to win it with luck in 15 years.

I think the top English sides have the money and quality to win it and will generally always be up there with a chance.

[Kano]

so as i said, you are basing it on perception, not on the lack of qualifying from 8 teams over two years.

also, why is it that people just do not read posts on here? have a look for the word 'luck' in my post. i said it was a unique victory against the odds that is an absolute rarity in this competition, i can't recall another team that has defended their way to the trophy. it gets so dull repeating the same things every other posts because people are too lazy to read. no wonder nobody debates anything on here.

[Özim]

so as i said, you are basing it on perception, not on the lack of qualifying from 8 teams over two years.

also, why is it that people just do not read posts on here? have a look for the word 'luck' in my post. i said it was a unique victory against the odds that is an absolute rarity in this competition, i can't recall another team that has defended their way to the trophy. it gets so dull repeating the same things every other posts because people are too lazy to read. no wonder nobody debates anything on here.
Once again, you can't ignore Chelsea winning it though they are still English after all and you can't do better than win it. You can write us off as we're sh*t, we always know we're going out when the knockout stages (if another team made it they'd probably make a better effort of it) arises so make it 6 teams in 2 years.

Man U faced the best team in the competition, they are undoubtedly in the best 8 teams in Europe. Man City aren't far behind either, they are a bit like us when in the early years, we were a great team yet never progressed far enough, but that wasn't because we weren't good enough.

I think the best English teams can undoubtedly compete, they have the quality as Man U showed, those below the top 2-3 perhaps not so much however.

[LDG]

Also depends on which way Sepp and Michelle are betting each year, tbf.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

English football isn't where it was 4-5 years ago when it dominated however European teams have got better IMO, 4-5 years ago there didn't seem to be a huge amount of quality, this season there seems to be a lot more quality teams around.

I don't think there's anything to worry about anyway, they'll be back next season for sure.

the overall quality of the premier league has improved, but the top 4 have got worse.

[IBK]

We've won 13 out of 28 league games and we're 5th, not a million miles away from 3rd, especially if we win our game in hand.
I think that tells you everything you need to know about the quality of the PL this year.

Kind of - but to play Devil's advocate it could also be that the EPL is becoming more competitive throughout. I know that Manure are running away with the title - but they are managed by possibly the best manager in history.

I'm in the camp that says that as far as this season's CL is concerned, its something of an aberration - a couple more years of non-CL quarter final participation is required before judgments can be made. Yes the Bundesliga is becoming better - and the Germans have deliberately planned for this, but with the money in our league, let's wait for a little longer before passing judgment.

I am inclined to ignore Wenger's transparent attempt to put us on a par with our more illustrious EPL rivals - as I ignore everything he says these days. He is nothing but a politicking weasel with his constant PR speak - and I'm bored with it. He shouldn't lament the falling standard of our league when he has done more or less everything he could deliberately to weaken his own side.

A few more points.

Re Wednesday's game - I can understand totally those who are completely ambivalent about the result - and agree that in the context of our general decline and the unlikelihood that it will change anything going forwards it means nothing. Personally, I drew satisfaction from the fact that we weren't made to look like chumps as I had predicted, (and I'm with Terry in this regard) but its really sad that the way in which our club has been run and managed for years has resulted in many Gooners being unable even to enjoy what was a good one off result.

I disagree that Bayern handed the win to us, for the reasons that have been given, but also because football doesn't work like that. If one team is under-cooked, or has the wrong mental approach (which BTW I do not accept Bayern were) then that's all part and parcel of losing a game - as much as being bested in pure playing terms. We won the game because we scored 2 more goals than them, and kept a clean sheet. Again, its sad that our disgust with our team generally now prevents us even from praising a performance - it has to be because the other team threw the game. Do people think Bayern fans felt the same way after the first leg? Do people think that Blackburn fans felt that way after their FA Cup win against us? Of course not. They would have taken pride in their team's performance. Oh - and if we had played a game with as many shots as Bayern had on target and not scored, but they had scored with 2 out of 4 attempts on goal, we'd be slagging off our team - not praising the efficiency of the competition.

I am far from happy with what is happening at AFC - but the carping can go too far sometimes.

[Power n Glory]

Once again, you can't ignore Chelsea winning it though they are still English after all and you can't do better than win it. You can write us off as we're sh*t, we always know we're going out when the knockout stages (if another team made it they'd probably make a better effort of it) arises so make it 6 teams in 2 years.

Man U faced the best team in the competition, they are undoubtedly in the best 8 teams in Europe. Man City aren't far behind either, they are a bit like us when in the early years, we were a great team yet never progressed far enough, but that wasn't because we weren't good enough.

I think the best English teams can undoubtedly compete, they have the quality as Man U showed, those below the top 2-3 perhaps not so much however.

Point taken in that respect because I can’t imagine the Prem suffering a serious decline in the same way Italian football was struck unless the big clubs ran into serious money problems. At the moment they have can just continue to build and build until they get better. If the money were to get cut and owners ran into money problems, then we can talk seriously about the English league dying. As said before, I think most teams are in state of transition.

[Kano]

Re Wednesday's game - I can understand totally those who are completely ambivalent about the result - and agree that in the context of our general decline and the unlikelihood that it will change anything going forwards it means nothing. Personally, I drew satisfaction from the fact that we weren't made to look like chumps as I had predicted, (and I'm with Terry in this regard) but its really sad that the way in which our club has been run and managed for years has resulted in many Gooners being unable even to enjoy what was a good one off result.

I disagree that Bayern handed the win to us, for the reasons that have been given, but also because football doesn't work like that. If one team is under-cooked, or has the wrong mental approach (which BTW I do not accept Bayern were) then that's all part and parcel of losing a game - as much as being bested in pure playing terms. We won the game because we scored 2 more goals than them, and kept a clean sheet. Again, its sad that our disgust with our team generally now prevents us even from praising a performance - it has to be because the other team threw the game. Do people think Bayern fans felt the same way after the first leg? Do people think that Blackburn fans felt that way after their FA Cup win against us? Of course not. They would have taken pride in their team's performance. Oh - and if we had played a game with as many shots as Bayern had on target and not scored, but they had scored with 2 out of 4 attempts on goal, we'd be slagging off our team - not praising the efficiency of the competition.

I am far from happy with what is happening at AFC - but the carping can go too far sometimes.
good shout there - agree with you all the way.

[Power n Glory]

Kind of - but to play Devil's advocate it could also be that the EPL is becoming more competitive throughout. I know that Manure are running away with the title - but they are managed by possibly the best manager in history.

I'm in the camp that says that as far as this season's CL is concerned, its something of an aberration - a couple more years of non-CL quarter final participation is required before judgments can be made. Yes the Bundesliga is becoming better - and the Germans have deliberately planned for this, but with the money in our league, let's wait for a little longer before passing judgment.

I am inclined to ignore Wenger's transparent attempt to put us on a par with our more illustrious EPL rivals - as I ignore everything he says these days. He is nothing but a politicking weasel with his constant PR speak - and I'm bored with it. He shouldn't lament the falling standard of our league when he has done more or less everything he could deliberately to weaken his own side.

A few more points.

Re Wednesday's game - I can understand totally those who are completely ambivalent about the result - and agree that in the context of our general decline and the unlikelihood that it will change anything going forwards it means nothing. Personally, I drew satisfaction from the fact that we weren't made to look like chumps as I had predicted, (and I'm with Terry in this regard) but its really sad that the way in which our club has been run and managed for years has resulted in many Gooners being unable even to enjoy what was a good one off result.

I disagree that Bayern handed the win to us, for the reasons that have been given, but also because football doesn't work like that. If one team is under-cooked, or has the wrong mental approach (which BTW I do not accept Bayern were) then that's all part and parcel of losing a game - as much as being bested in pure playing terms. We won the game because we scored 2 more goals than them, and kept a clean sheet. Again, its sad that our disgust with our team generally now prevents us even from praising a performance - it has to be because the other team threw the game. Do people think Bayern fans felt the same way after the first leg? Do people think that Blackburn fans felt that way after their FA Cup win against us? Of course not. They would have taken pride in their team's performance. Oh - and if we had played a game with as many shots as Bayern had on target and not scored, but they had scored with 2 out of 4 attempts on goal, we'd be slagging off our team - not praising the efficiency of the competition.

I am far from happy with what is happening at AFC - but the carping can go too far sometimes.

I think most people are ambivalent to the result in Munich because we’ve beaten better teams in the past and it rarely changes anything. We’ve beaten the big teams in the Prem and Champs League in the past and it means nothing in the end. Bayern didn’t play well and neither did we if we’re honest about it. It wasn’t an entertaining game or as thrilling as some of our past victories so I can understand where some folks are coming from. You can only hope this result does something for the teams confidence but I highly doubt it.

[Özim]

Kind of - but to play Devil's advocate it could also be that the EPL is becoming more competitive throughout. I know that Manure are running away with the title - but they are managed by possibly the best manager in history.

I'm in the camp that says that as far as this season's CL is concerned, its something of an aberration - a couple more years of non-CL quarter final participation is required before judgments can be made. Yes the Bundesliga is becoming better - and the Germans have deliberately planned for this, but with the money in our league, let's wait for a little longer before passing judgment.

I am inclined to ignore Wenger's transparent attempt to put us on a par with our more illustrious EPL rivals - as I ignore everything he says these days. He is nothing but a politicking weasel with his constant PR speak - and I'm bored with it. He shouldn't lament the falling standard of our league when he has done more or less everything he could deliberately to weaken his own side.

A few more points.

Re Wednesday's game - I can understand totally those who are completely ambivalent about the result - and agree that in the context of our general decline and the unlikelihood that it will change anything going forwards it means nothing. Personally, I drew satisfaction from the fact that we weren't made to look like chumps as I had predicted, (and I'm with Terry in this regard) but its really sad that the way in which our club has been run and managed for years has resulted in many Gooners being unable even to enjoy what was a good one off result.

I disagree that Bayern handed the win to us, for the reasons that have been given, but also because football doesn't work like that. If one team is under-cooked, or has the wrong mental approach (which BTW I do not accept Bayern were) then that's all part and parcel of losing a game - as much as being bested in pure playing terms. We won the game because we scored 2 more goals than them, and kept a clean sheet. Again, its sad that our disgust with our team generally now prevents us even from praising a performance - it has to be because the other team threw the game. Do people think Bayern fans felt the same way after the first leg? Do people think that Blackburn fans felt that way after their FA Cup win against us? Of course not. They would have taken pride in their team's performance. Oh - and if we had played a game with as many shots as Bayern had on target and not scored, but they had scored with 2 out of 4 attempts on goal, we'd be slagging off our team - not praising the efficiency of the competition.

I am far from happy with what is happening at AFC - but the carping can go too far sometimes.

If I was a Bayern fan, after Wednesday's shocking performance I'd be seriously annoyed at the lack of professionalism to allow a weaker team a sniff of going through and I'd be worried about my teams chances.

Let's not beat around the bush, Bayern were awful and lacked motivation, they thought the tie was won and all they had to do was turn up. The difference with the victory in the 1st leg was that it wasn't unpexpected, we're a fairly average team with a real lack of quality (it shouldn't be the case but is) and it would have been no surprise to see a team like Bayern win at a canter with the players they have.

It's is a surprise to see us win without really going for it however, as they're a far superior team. It was a timid affair where one team defended and the other team was disinterested, we didn't really go all out snap at their heels and unsettle them, we just defended and because they lacked motivation we snatched a couple of goals from rare attacks and won....it wasn't really a heroic gunghoe effort.

[Özim]

Point taken in that respect because I can’t imagine the Prem suffering a serious decline in the same way Italian football was struck unless the big clubs ran into serious money problems. At the moment they have can just continue to build and build until they get better. If the money were to get cut and owners ran into money problems, then we can talk seriously about the English league dying. As said before, I think most teams are in state of transition.
Yeah I agree with this, some teams (like Chelsea) are going through change but the very best will continue to challenge because they still have the quality of players to mix it with the best teams in Europe, we could as well of course, if we really wanted to.

[selassie]

Kind of - but to play Devil's advocate it could also be that the EPL is becoming more competitive throughout. I know that Manure are running away with the title - but they are managed by possibly the best manager in history.

I'm in the camp that says that as far as this season's CL is concerned, its something of an aberration - a couple more years of non-CL quarter final participation is required before judgments can be made. Yes the Bundesliga is becoming better - and the Germans have deliberately planned for this, but with the money in our league, let's wait for a little longer before passing judgment.

I am inclined to ignore Wenger's transparent attempt to put us on a par with our more illustrious EPL rivals - as I ignore everything he says these days. He is nothing but a politicking weasel with his constant PR speak - and I'm bored with it. He shouldn't lament the falling standard of our league when he has done more or less everything he could deliberately to weaken his own side.

A few more points.

Re Wednesday's game - I can understand totally those who are completely ambivalent about the result - and agree that in the context of our general decline and the unlikelihood that it will change anything going forwards it means nothing. Personally, I drew satisfaction from the fact that we weren't made to look like chumps as I had predicted, (and I'm with Terry in this regard) but its really sad that the way in which our club has been run and managed for years has resulted in many Gooners being unable even to enjoy what was a good one off result.

I disagree that Bayern handed the win to us, for the reasons that have been given, but also because football doesn't work like that. If one team is under-cooked, or has the wrong mental approach (which BTW I do not accept Bayern were) then that's all part and parcel of losing a game - as much as being bested in pure playing terms. We won the game because we scored 2 more goals than them, and kept a clean sheet. Again, its sad that our disgust with our team generally now prevents us even from praising a performance - it has to be because the other team threw the game. Do people think Bayern fans felt the same way after the first leg? Do people think that Blackburn fans felt that way after their FA Cup win against us? Of course not. They would have taken pride in their team's performance. Oh - and if we had played a game with as many shots as Bayern had on target and not scored, but they had scored with 2 out of 4 attempts on goal, we'd be slagging off our team - not praising the efficiency of the competition.

I am far from happy with what is happening at AFC - but the carping can go too far sometimes.

:gp:

Agree with all with all of it.

[LDG]

The result or the way we played has nothing to do with the ambivalence I have.

It just feels like we've been here before all too often. Praising the team for doing too little, too late, whether we played well, average, against a coasting team, or against fucking anyone.

Point is, we're still out. We're still not good enough. We didn't play that well. And we've it all to do over the next ten games.

Does it mean I'm not a true supporter? Fuck off. I was gutted at going out the other night, because I fear we won't be back, and I know that the team is suffering.

I don't "hate" the players of the manager (as some other true gooners seem too) either.

But I'm getting right fucking narky with seeing us flounder, for no other reason, than sloppy play, poor management, profit before football, and players who don't care about the club.

When I'm at the game, I will support them. But that doesn't mean they get my praise afterwards based on one reasonable showing. I feel as though I've been stung too many times, and there have been too many false dawns.

They can wait for my praise, when they've put a run together worthy of it. that goes for players, manager and club as a whole.

[Kano]

I'll enjoy a victory for my own sanity, if not for anything else. without that release occasionally i'd go mad just be depressed and gloomy about everything to do with the club. i have to maintain some reason to keep watching my club. hope is a big part of that.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I've lost pretty much any hope I had. How many times have we heard in the face of a totally predictable setback that this may serve as a blessing in disguise?

Some are holding out hope that failure to finish in the top four will be one of those 'blessings' and act as a wake up call.

Well it won't. All I expect to happen is that the Manager and the Board will look at the cost base and adjust it accordingly so that profitability is maintained.

[Özim]

:ilt:

[LDG]

Zimm disease :(

[Niall_Quinn]

Typical Arsenal isn't it? Throwing in a result when it doesn't matter. Let's see them win when it does matter, whenever they've tried to do that over the last 8 years they've fucked it up. I weight 8 years of these fuck-ups against a few pointless results in Europe. Big wow. Just proves the team can't do it when they sniff a hope of success. Their mentality sucks. Even when we went 2-0 they didn't press on. There's a lack of professionalism and belief right through the team. Arteta's performance in the last 10 minutes was beyond a disgrace. There's no glory or honour attached to being also-rans and that's what we are, second best in every situation that counts. The players don't believe, the fans don't believe, the board has virtually nothing to do with either and the manager is delusional, yeah he believes and believe me that's a very bad sign in his case.Board out, manager out, most of the players out and start again. Won't happen so there's only one word to sum this club up. Losers. Done with them, grand prix season starting, woo hoo!

[Özim]

Typical Arsenal isn't it? Throwing in a result when it doesn't matter. Let's see them win when it does matter, whenever they've tried to do that over the last 8 years they've fucked it up. I weight 8 years of these fuck-ups against a few pointless results in Europe. Big wow. Just proves the team can't do it when they sniff a hope of success. Their mentality sucks. Even when we went 2-0 they didn't press on. There's a lack of professionalism and belief right through the team. Arteta's performance in the last 10 minutes was beyond a disgrace. There's no glory or honour attached to being also-rans and that's what we are, second best in every situation that counts. The players don't believe, the fans don't believe, the board has virtually nothing to do with either and the manager is delusional, yeah he believes and believe me that's a very bad sign in his case.Board out, manager out, most of the players out and start again. Won't happen so there's only one word to sum this club up. Losers. Done with them, grand prix season starting, woo hoo!
Pretty much a totally pointless result that doesn't matter that's the only thing we do well, when it really does matter we collapse quicker than a house of cards in a hurricane!

[Letters]

Pretty much a totally pointless result that doesn't matter that's the only thing we do well, when it really does matter we collapse quicker than a house of cards in a hurricane!

You'd have moaned your tits off had we lost, now you're moaning we won :shrug:
We do need to follow it up with some league results though and I agree we've been here before, too many times.
Meh. Let's see what we do tomorrow and for the rest of the season

[Niall_Quinn]

You'd have moaned your tits off had we lost, now you're moaning we won :shrug:
We do need to follow it up with some league results though and I agree we've been here before, too many times.
Meh. Let's see what we do tomorrow and for the rest of the season

We didn't win. If we'd have won we would be through to the next round. You could expand this sort of winning philosophy to a league season and a hopeless relegated outfit on three points all season basking in the glory of that one fluke win, that aberration, that singular mishap. If we scrape 4th we'll cheer that I suppose. They have us trained to appreciate failure, fortunately because that's all they can deliver except sky high ticket prices and a annual fuck you very much from PHW.

[Cripps_orig]

You'd have moaned your tits off had we lost, now you're moaning we won :shrug:
We do need to follow it up with some league results though and I agree we've been here before, too many times.
Meh. Let's see what we do tomorrow and for the rest of the season

Ah the 2 famous words.

"Let's See" should be GWs motto

[Japan Shaking All Over]

The tragic thing is that there are people on here who would have moaned if we had done enough to go through. . .backing up their point of view with the logic that it doesnt matter that we won because we are going out in the next round.

I do understand what people are saying when they comment on the win as pointless due to the fact that it fell short of putting us through but surely that thinking is based on the idea that we never were going to or never tried to score three goals and that we were satisfied with two nil. I dont believe that is true, in fact the defeatist attitude we label the team with seems to have infected the fan base too (which TBH cannot be helped I suppose)

I did not think we were going to win, I hoped we would play with a bit of pride unlike the way we played in the first leg. I was proud of the result and applaud the lads for it. Does that make me a reconverted believer? . . .sadly not, our once a month play with a bit of spunk performance is not good enough. I know that one result does not mean that Wenger has got it right. . .too much damage has been done both on and off the field.

However am I proud of the result, on tge face of it, yes I am. Deep down. . .it doesnt change a thing. We need to get thtough the rest of the season by playing our hearts out. . .whether it is enough for fourth, I dont know, if we fail to reach that goal then the club only have themselves to blame

[Niall_Quinn]

We should have won that match by 3 or 4 goals easily. Bayern didn't show up and by the time they realised we weren't going to lay down they couldn't up the gears. Any half decent team would have knocked them out. We aren't a half decent team by any stretch. Then again, if the Germans were playing a decent team they probably wouldn't have been so complacent. The match was a bit like a mosquito biting a sleeping elephant. The insect got a few lumps in and then got squashed. But it was a moral victory apparently.

Had we won it I'd have been happy despite the truly dreadful performance and the embarrassing lack of quality at that level in most of our players. Not happy because we'd sneaked past Bayern on their off day because we can't forget how hopeless we were in the first leg, but because any sort of an achievement with a reward attached would be a first for this club after so many years. The hope would have been it could spur them on to regaining a shred of pride in the last few weeks of a such a dreadful season. As it is they couldn't manage it, no surprise at all considering they are total shit. Well paid though so it's not all bad news.

It will be interesting to see how Bayern recover from doing an impression of us, albeit with a bit of talent. Downturns like that can drain momentum. So it could turn out we have given them the footballing equivalent of malaria. Another victory without having to actually achieve anything.

[Kano]

We should have won that match by 3 or 4 goals easily. Bayern didn't show up and by the time they realised we weren't going to lay down they couldn't up the gears. Any half decent team would have knocked them out. We aren't a half decent team by any stretch. Then again, if the Germans were playing a decent team they probably wouldn't have been so complacent. The match was a bit like a mosquito biting a sleeping elephant. The insect got a few lumps in and then got squashed. But it was a moral victory apparently.

Had we won it I'd have been happy despite the truly dreadful performance and the embarrassing lack of quality at that level in most of our players. Not happy because we'd sneaked past Bayern on their off day because we can't forget how hopeless we were in the first leg, but because any sort of an achievement with a reward attached would be a first for this club after so many years. The hope would have been it could spur them on to regaining a shred of pride in the last few weeks of a such a dreadful season. As it is they couldn't manage it, no surprise at all considering they are total shit. Well paid though so it's not all bad news.

It will be interesting to see how Bayern recover from doing an impression of us, albeit with a bit of talent. Downturns like that can drain momentum. So it could turn out we have given them the footballing equivalent of malaria. Another victory without having to actually achieve anything.
no we wouldn't and no we couldn't have won that game by three or four goals. as easy as it may seem watching the game from our warm, comfy little sofas, happily depressed in our secluded bubbles of hatred toward the putrid mess served up far too often this season, it is still far from realistic. a fair perception of fans not sitting in a stadium cheering on their side? or a misjudgment compared to those who payed far too much to travel out to germany, paying to see the boys in the flesh and cheer them on no matter what? goonersweb is a bubble, much like the rest of the internet. what i'm interested in, and what reflects the real feeling of the hardcore fans willing to pay out the arse to see arsenal play a game of football, will be the comments of the few thousand stuck up in the gods of the allianz arena. those are the guys that will boo, cheer and exude every sinew to reveal the state of where our fans stand at this moment in time. those are the guys that pay for the privilege to take the lead on how everyone else perceive us and truly reflect the state of the relationship between player and fan.

[Cripps_orig]

Yeah cos Bayern regularly lose games at home by 3 or 4 :rolleyes:

[Power n Glory]

I think if we put in a performance like how we saw against Liverpool or Reading this season, I doubt there would be such a backlash. An outstanding performance with key players looking lethal and confident wouldn't go ignored. There would be more analysis and praise going on like when Diaby had a storm of game, when Theo scored that hat trick or when Santi scored a hat trick. When we perform at the higest level we're usually entertained by the game and talking about the best bits and 'looking like the Arsenal of old'. This wasn't thrilling or entertaining and gave no hope of us pushing on. We didn't fin that extra gear and that's what I hoping for which is why I want Wenger to experiment with the team more. We need inspiration from somewhere, someone.

[Niall_Quinn]

no we wouldn't and no we couldn't have won that game by three or four goals. as easy as it may seem watching the game from our warm, comfy little sofas, happily depressed in our secluded bubbles of hatred toward the putrid mess served up far too often this season, it is still far from realistic. a fair perception of fans not sitting in a stadium cheering on their side? or a misjudgment compared to those who payed far too much to travel out to germany, paying to see the boys in the flesh and cheer them on no matter what? goonersweb is a bubble, much like the rest of the internet. what i'm interested in, and what reflects the real feeling of the hardcore fans willing to pay out the arse to see arsenal play a game of football, will be the comments of the few thousand stuck up in the gods of the allianz arena. those are the guys that will boo, cheer and exude every sinew to reveal the state of where our fans stand at this moment in time. those are the guys that pay for the privilege to take the lead on how everyone else perceive us and truly reflect the state of the relationship between player and fan.

Reminds me of the 20 years I put in when we again weren't winning anything and the stadium wasn't quite so glittery. Only difference was there was football being played back then. I'll retain the right to have a well earned opinion but I'll certainly let you know if that changes.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah cos Bayern regularly lose games at home by 3 or 4 :rolleyes:

They don't regularly play a team a shit and pointless as ours and they don't regularly forget to turn up to the match. In other words, your point is meaningless.

[Kano]

Reminds me of the 20 years I put in when we again weren't winning anything and the stadium wasn't quite so glittery. Only difference was there was football being played back then. I'll retain the right to have a well earned opinion but I'll certainly let you know if that changes.
don't get all touchy about it, i'm pretty sure i didn't mention your right to an opinion. we're all guilty of it on here, that wasn't a personal attack. but we'd do well to take a look at the guys who travelled over there on the night, sang their hearts out and gave far more than a 'meh' response. i've no interest in dropping to levels of who is or isn't a true gooner because that is pretty pathetic. but when we watch the games from our safe pods at home it wouldn't hurt focusing a little more on the guys who commit a large chunk of their lives following the team here, there and everywhere and recalling how actually making those commitments, which is far more than turning on a TV/PC, compares to how much we take from the games. we can all chat bollocks on here all day long but the regulars at any football stadium, the guys that help pay the wages of those fuckers, in my eyes get the seniority when it comes to real feedback.

[Niall_Quinn]

don't get all touchy about it, i'm pretty sure i didn't mention your right to an opinion. we're all guilty of it on here, that wasn't a personal attack. but we'd do well to take a look at the guys who travelled over there on the night, sang their hearts out and gave far more than a 'meh' response. i've no interest in dropping to levels of who is or isn't a true gooner because that is pretty pathetic. but when we watch the games from our safe pods at home it wouldn't hurt focusing a little more on the guys who commit a large chunk of their lives following the team here, there and everywhere and recalling how actually making those commitments, which is far more than turning on a TV/PC, compares to how much we take from the games.

Fair enough.

Just reached the stage where this team doesn't engage me in any conceivable way. After an endless stream of failure, for want of a bit of investment, for want of a bit of heart, for want of a manager dismounting his high horse, hearing anything about the glory of yet another failure just grinds. That was a great chance to get it right just once, to put a bit of spark back in an otherwise dead club. Blown. So I guess either say let's wait and see what happens next time (we already know of course) or fuck it, everything has limits. Thinking back on those 20 years we didn't exactly set the world on fire but there was never the thought you weren't part of things. The club seems alien now and that doesn't help at all when mediocrity sets in. If we're not all in it together then we're not all in it together. Hats off to those fans who are still making the trek and hoping for better days. But they are hoping alone because the club plainly has different ambitions.

[LDG]

Fair enough.

Just reached the stage where this team doesn't engage me in any conceivable way. After an endless stream of failure, for want of a bit of investment, for want of a bit of heart, for want of a manager dismounting his high horse, hearing anything about the glory of yet another failure just grinds. That was a great chance to get it right just once, to put a bit of spark back in an otherwise dead club. Blown. So I guess either say let's wait and see what happens next time (we already know of course) or fuck it, everything has limits. Thinking back on those 20 years we didn't exactly set the world on fire but there was never the thought you weren't part of things. The club seems alien now and that doesn't help at all when mediocrity sets in. If we're not all in it together then we're not all in it together. Hats off to those fans who are still making the trek and hoping for better days. But they are hoping alone because the club plainly has different ambitions.


:haha:

[LDG]

Fair enough in terms of the way we defended, though on another day, they could and should have had a few themselves. Don't forget they were also short of three world class players.

I'm not necessarliy criticising the game itself, but in the whole context, it is pointless to herald the team for what will surely be another false dawn.

Why do they deserve my praise? They'll get it if they start putting that kind of effort in consistently. I've always said, as long as they try, I'm behind them. But doing it once we've already been pasted isn't good enough.


Bloody hell. I must have been depressed.

ZD had set in fully :o

What a turn around since.

Arsenal :bow:

[GP]

Bloody hell. I must have been depressed.

ZD had set in fully :o

What a turn around since.

Arsenal :bow:

http://i.imgur.com/v7d1p4p.gif