Wenger Reprieve?

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I am fully aware of the general sentiment, the fact that everyone on GW (including myself) as well the majority of Gooners (of which GW is a fair reflection of) have at some recent point stated that the club would be better off if Wenger stepped aside, speaks volumes.

But taken into consideration the happenings at UTD and te fact that it looks like we do have a bit of cash (going to spend it?) Does Wenger get given another chance?

UTD could be in for a bit of turmoil, at least e should expect a bit of a transition period, the players are the same but a happy group of campers?
Citeh were crap this year (we were crapper!) but Moancini does not have the hearts and minds of his squad either, then thete is Chelski who just love to swap wifes whenever they feel like it.

We are the only team at the top with a stable managemrnt set up. . .is it the right time for us too to play musical chairs?

[Ollie the Optimist]

I am fully aware of the general sentiment, the fact that everyone on GW (including myself) as well the majority of Gooners (of which GW is a fair reflection of) have at some recent point stated that the club would be better off if Wenger stepped aside, speaks volumes.

But taken into consideration the happenings at UTD and te fact that it looks like we do have a bit of cash (going to spend it?) Does Wenger get given another chance?


yes, with potentially chelsea, united, city all having new managers, everton too, keeping wenger, not having change, getting a few players in, and we can really go for it. he will know this, the board should know this.

[Letters]

It's a really difficult one. One again it looks like we'll limp over the line into the top 4 and to be fair to Wenger he sold RvP, bought two players who are OK but nowhere near in the same league and yet we're still on course for a higher points tally than last year. I don't know how he does it.
What we need as a group of fans is some hope, a few big signings will give us that. If Wenger makes them then great, if he still doesn't with all the money rolling in then...well, the board won't sack him because he keeps delivering but we need to do something to stop the endless Groundhog Day.

[Power n Glory]

I’m not sure Wenger can be trusted with the money. His recent buys haven’t been good and we’re not getting value for money. It’s been a while since he’s uncovered a true gem of player in the transfer market and players that are decent just aren’t being used correctly. His judgement may be on the wane. It’s too risky to hand him all the cash.

[Kano]

no he still needs to leave, preferably in the summer, but more than likely at the end of next season. i think fergie retiring will provide inspiration for him in that he will realise it will be possible to walk away from the club.

the same problems will exist next season, no matter what we spend and in general the club and us fans need a fresh start and approach.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Regardless of whether we think Arsene should be given a "reprieve" he is going to get one anyway, he is here until 2014 no matter what happens.
My feelings regarding this is that i believe that in Steve Bould we have someone who has made us defensively strong....and couple that with the possible acquisition of a defensive midfield and some creative players and a reliable goal scorer that should give us at least a solid footing on which to be competitive.
I find Wenger very frustrating but i still like and respect the man and it would take a lot to change that, and i think there is a general lack of respect shown towards him by members of this board and that is their choice but despite sometimes feeling that i could cheerfully throttle him i think if we finish in the top four coupled with finishing third last season it is an amazing achievement with a very average group of players and one that the Arsenal hating media will never for a second acknowledge.
My fondest hope is that Wenger wins silverware before he does go, because i think he deserves it....i question his decision making a lot but i would never question his desire or his passion for this club

[Marc Overmars]

Hopefully he doesn't sign a new deal and leaves at the end of next season, which I expect he'll do. What unrest goes on at other clubs doesn't shape the way I feel about our current set up.

Chelsea have been changing managers for years but always have a better season than us and City will also just buy their way back into the mix. United will be vulnerable but that's about it, they'll still be there or thereabouts.

[selassie]

I don't trust Wenger with money, ironically many of us think he won't spend it anyway. Assuming he does spend I don't think he's capable of building a balanced squad/team that can challenge for the title.

There I said it.

If anything, assuming that significant funds are actually available, he should step aside in the summer and let someone else come in to reshape the squad.

The issue we have with that is that at present our squad is in pretty poor shape.

[I_Killed_Kenny]

well this is going to be his time to show he still has it in him. with all the turmoil at other clubs he really has no excuse now to not capitalise on their transitions. If the same thing happens this summer as the last 8 then he has had it. Perfect opportunity for us to seize the day. All you will hear all summer will be about the mancs and chelsea and bale. we can go quietly under the radar and hopefully do some impressive work. This really is a massive summer/next season now.

[Power n Glory]

If Jose returns then it’s a wrap for Wenger, let’s not forget that. We’ll have a serious problem on our hands if he goes back to Chelsea and we’ll be in desperate need of a manger with fresh ideas.

[Niall_Quinn]

Is there any mileage in claiming Arsene has outlasted Fergie and is therefore the ultimate victor? I'll grasp at anything on offer, I think I could sustain this delusion for at least a season if everyone leaves me be. And on that basis, surely we couldn't get rid of the most successful manager of all time? See how that works? Come with me on this, it may be all we have.

[IBK]

I don't trust Wenger with money, ironically many of us think he won't spend it anyway. Assuming he does spend I don't think he's capable of building a balanced squad/team that can challenge for the title.

There I said it.

If anything, assuming that significant funds are actually available, he should step aside in the summer and let someone else come in to reshape the squad.

The issue we have with that is that at present our squad is in pretty poor shape.

This. I hung on for years hoping that Wenger would come good, but no longer believe that he can win things for us. I respect him still for delivering top 4 football consistently, but he won't do significantly better than this again. However much money he has to spend, this will neither make him sign the characters that we need to push for silverware nor make a difference to the mentality of his squad - which is that less than 100% in every game is acceptable.

Plus - his principles will not allow him simply to buy the best players for the team. They will have to be 'fair value' - and have something that the manager thinks he can improve on.

I hate to be negative, and because of the depth of his involvement in the club, Wenger leaving will be almost as seismic for us as Ferguson is for Manure. But having sacrificed success for financial stability, and having built a first team that is an excellent base for a less forgiving manager - the best thing that the manager can do for us is to spend a final season planning properly for his successor.

IMO Ferguson leaving will make no real difference to our prospects in the league. I am not supportive of Wenger splurging to try to recapture his best years because it is more likely than not to be money wasted.

[Power n Glory]

We’ve blown a lot of money over the years and you look at Wenger’s recent signings to see we lack direction and maybe he’s losing his touch. I really can’t understand why he bought Giroud and Podolski to play how they’re currently being played. If we were playing them as a pair up front, then I’d understand, but in isolation with one out wide and the other on the flank, it just doesn’t work. It made no sense at all to sign Arteta, to play him in an unfamiliar position and then to ditch Song. Arteta is the more expensive player and it just doesn’t seem right to oust the player we’ve developed and give his wages to an outsider approaching the end of his career. What he saw in Chamakh and Park…it’s just not good. He’s never been a tactical genius and has depended heavily on the quality of his players. If he’s losing his eye for it then it’s pretty much over for him.

[IBK]

We’ve blown a lot of money over the years and you look at Wenger’s recent signings to see we lack direction and maybe he’s losing his touch. I really can’t understand why he bought Giroud and Podolski to play how they’re currently being played. If we were playing them as a pair up front, then I’d understand, but in isolation with one out wide and the other on the flank, it just doesn’t work. It made no sense at all to sign Arteta, to play him in an unfamiliar position and then to ditch Song. Arteta is the more expensive player and it just doesn’t seem right to oust the player we’ve developed and give his wages to an outsider approaching the end of his career. What he saw in Chamakh and Park…it’s just not good. He’s never been a tactical genius and has depended heavily on the quality of his players. If he’s losing his eye for it then it’s pretty much over for him.

Wenger has bought duds, but he also fails to get the best out of other players - making them look worse than they are by failing to play to their strengths, playing them out of position or using the wrong combinations. as I said on the other thread - IMO this is down to ego/arrogance that he can see something that noone else can. I don't see this changing with bigger spending, unfortunately.

[Power n Glory]

His stubbornness and ego has been costing us for a while. Playing Eboue on the wings for so long. When Diaby was fit he spent ages playing on the flanks instead of trying to turn him into a box to box player. Rosicky should have been playing in the middle years ago along with Cesc instead he persisted with Denilson. Arshavin could have been utilised this season but Wenger hasn’t used him at all. His stamina issue could easily be addressed by playing him behind the striker. Podolski looks to be going down the same route as Arsahvin because he leaves our wingback exposed when playing because he doesn’t track back and has never finished a game this season. It’s a long list. It’s not impossible to get a group of players that aren’t that spectacular to operate as an efficient unit. He’ll persist with the players he has now and I can’t see many changes next season unless first teamers leave.

[IBK]

His stubbornness and ego has been costing us for a while. Playing Eboue on the wings for so long. When Diaby was fit he spent ages playing on the flanks instead of trying to turn him into a box to box player. Rosicky should have been playing in the middle years ago along with Cesc instead he persisted with Denilson. Arshavin could have been utilised this season but Wenger hasn’t used him at all. His stamina issue could easily be addressed by playing him behind the striker. Podolski looks to be going down the same route as Arsahvin because he leaves our wingback exposed when playing because he doesn’t track back and has never finished a game this season. It’s a long list. It’s not impossible to get a group of players that aren’t that spectacular to operate as an efficient unit. He’ll persist with the players he has now and I can’t see many changes next season unless first teamers leave.

Aye - question is what other managers could have achieved with our team/squad. I think that there are 4 or 5 managers in the EPL who could get more out of them.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

i think fergie leaving will have a bigger impact than we think. wenger has always been driven by the romance of duelling with him again but now fergie's decided to call it a day it may influence wenger to go at the end of his contract. we're in a new generation, they were the last of a dying breed. they represented true football without the artificial crap pumped into it today.

as for the original question, no i think he's had his day. whats the point of giving him money to spend now? it should have been done years ago. we need a fresh perspective.

and when one drug lord falls, another one just steps into the shoes. mourinho will be here in the summer to take over from fergie's antics and we'll see the rise of chelsea again. in other words, wenger will always have an excuse to fall back on.

thank you wenger but your time is done. step aside and let someone give us proper hope of reaching the top of everest again.

[IBK]

i think fergie leaving will have a bigger impact than we think. wenger has always been driven by the romance of duelling with him again but now fergie's decided to call it a day it may influence wenger to go at the end of his contract. we're in a new generation, they were the last of a dying breed. they represented true football without the artificial crap pumped into it today.

as for the original question, no i think he's had his day. whats the point of giving him money to spend now? it should have been done years ago. we need a fresh perspective.

and when one drug lord falls, another one just steps into the shoes. mourinho will be here in the summer to take over from fergie's antics and we'll see the rise of chelsea again. in other words, wenger will always have an excuse to fall back on.

thank you wenger but your time is done. step aside and let someone give us proper hope of reaching the top of everest again.

Interesting take...

I suppose the only question to ask is why SAF decided to call it a day. By all accounts, just a week ago he gave the impression that he was staying on for at least a bit. Was it something in the boardroom that changed things? By contrast, its difficult to see anything at boardroom level inducing AW to go.

I wonder whether Wenger will spend big (by his standards) and give it one last go - leaving at the end of his contract if things don't workout. like I say, I'm not sure I want him to do so, but the new commercial deals may induce him to.

[Niall_Quinn]

He's seriously ill, isn't he? You can tell just by looking at him. Ferguson I mean.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

No, no reprieve for Wenger. He's a spent force, more so as it relates to the direction which football has taken.

Now, stop deluding yourselves thinking that he has it left in him to bring back the glory days. It's not going to happen. It's been 8 torturous seasons since we've seen a tin pot of any sort, and I honestly don't think any of you are entertaining the idea he'll fare any better in the 9th one.

He knew (still does, tbh) the French market inside out and was smart enough to poach some of their best talents in their golden era. That paid massive dividents, but the French have gone back to being shit and it's just too coincidental that we've suffered the same fate. This shows Wenger as a bit of a one trick pony. He now appears utterly clueless and the sooner he stops overstaying his welcome, the sooner the possibility of us seeing a new manager restoring some ambition and competitve spirit in and around Ashburton Grove.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Interesting take...

I suppose the only question to ask is why SAF decided to call it a day. By all accounts, just a week ago he gave the impression that he was staying on for at least a bit. Was it something in the boardroom that changed things? By contrast, its difficult to see anything at boardroom level inducing AW to go.

I wonder whether Wenger will spend big (by his standards) and give it one last go - leaving at the end of his contract if things don't workout. like I say, I'm not sure I want him to do so, but the new commercial deals may induce him to.

good question. i think the challenge was always to regain the title from city and end on a high. i think deep down he knew this was his last season, hence why the statue went up last summer, they named the stand after him last summer etc. and hence why he went fucking mental after losing to madrid because of that ridiculous red card for nani. he would have loved the european cup this season, he knew this was going to be the last hurrah. also reveals why he wanted the record points total so much, what best way than to leave out on top? also his health has deteriorated.

people say the timing of the announcement was bizarre but it wasnt. he called it before their last home game of the season, that way he gets to say a proper goodbye to the crowd at old trafford instead of some crappy testimonial he would have had to manage over the summer to say bye. if their last game of the season was at home he would have probably announced it a week later to coincide with that.

i also wonder how much moyes knew of this. he was always calm when asked about his future and im sure if the united board knew last summer/xmas time that fergie planned on retiring, they would have had a word in the upcoming manager's ear. what surprises me is that pep would have probably known about this but still went to bayern. didnt fergie and pep have dinner together in new york a few months back? im sure fergie would have let him known about his plans but pep still chose germany. weird.

dont underestimate the diverging path united may go on. they could kickstart a new era or with scholes and giggs (?) retiring, fergie gone, and wazza out the door, they could go downhill. that squad will be bang average. major upheaval too.

all these years of success.. after the feast comes the famine :pray:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Regardless of whether we think Arsene should be given a "reprieve" he is going to get one anyway, he is here until 2014 no matter what happens.
My feelings regarding this is that i believe that in Steve Bould we have someone who has made us defensively strong....and couple that with the possible acquisition of a defensive jmidfield and some creative players and a reliable goal scorer that should give us at least a solid footing on which to be competitive.
I find Wenger very frustrating but i still like and respect the man and it would take a lot to change that, and i think there is a general lack of respect shown towards him by members of this board and that is their choice but despite sometimes feeling that i could cheerfully throttle him i think if we finish in the top four coupled with finishing third last season it is an amazing achievement with a very average group of players and one that the Arsenal hating media will never for a second acknowledge.
My fondest hope is that Wenger wins silverware before he does go, because i think he deserves it....i question his decision making a lot but i would never question his desire or his passion for this club

I think by reprieve I meant a little less hate. Wenger needs an excellent summer transfer window. Although we havent replaced RvPs quality, we have seen goals and they have been spread around

[Niall_Quinn]

We won't get an excellent summer transfer window. There is zero chance of it happening, no chance whatsoever, it is impossible. The agenda of the current owners is not to win trophies or compete on the pitch, it is to compete at the very top of the financial game. They are doing this very well and are winning year after year. If Wenger delivers for them yet again by securing another CL pay day then they will be on track and there will be no need to overachieve. Where's the profit in over-achievement? It is not financially prudent or efficient and will push an exit strategy (which all good investment plans should have) further away. So forget about excellent summer transfer windows from your perspective as a fan. The transfer window will be excellent by a different standard and if Wenger manages to make a profit again he really needs to be acknowledged as a miracle worker. Anyone who needs reassurance on these realities should look back over the past 8 years and examine the late surges, the pre-window speculation, the dead zone that follows and finally (when the window closes) the promises that next year will be the year.

Step in front of a bus, get run over. Step in front of a bus, get run over. Step in front of a bus, get run over. Question. What happens when you step in front of a bus? Answer. We have a £70million war chest, woo-hoo!

So Wenger needs no reprieve. He's the undisputed master of what he has been asked to do. Reprieve from what? What are the fans going to do about any of this? Nothing. The game has moved on from needing the solid core of fans that held football at the heart of their communities. football is a consumer item now. If you don't pick it off the shelf somebody else will. How much do you affect Nike by boycotting their trainers? This is the power of marketing and what has been the stated aim of the current gang at Arsenal? An aim they do not hide but in fact boast about every year?

The problem with Wenger is he thinks he knows much more about the modern game than you. A further problem is he is undoubtedly correct. It's just we don't like the modern game much but that's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

The same applies to Utd. I doubt their marketing potential will be affected at all by the departure of Ferguson. Half the reports yesterday concerned a stock exchange in the USA. Are you getting that? Their fans will be gutted if they have a period where success on the pitch goes into decline. But they'll be ignoring the big picture, success will still flow where it really counts. The dollars will continue to tumble in. David Fucking Moyes? Why not? He'll do what he's told. He's been auditioning for this role for a long time. Loyalty, experience of how the domestic game works, no trophies required. Could they make it any more obvious. Finally Utd are catching up with Arsenal. Well done. The fans won't like it but what are they going to do? Set up another Manchester Utd? Wear black? As Bill Hicks used to observe, hey, the angry anti-marketing segment, strong growth, good opportunities for top dollar earnings. Bill Hicks also used to encourage all marketers to do the world a huge favour and kill themselves. He's dead now, smoked too many of their cigarettes I think.

[fakeyank]

AW needs to be shown the door

Need a new manager in. I wont trust him to do anything even half decent with the squad!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think by reprieve I meant a little less hate. Wenger needs an excellent summer transfer window. Although we havent replaced RvPs quality, we have seen goals and they have been spread around

Spread about in what sense?....on one hand we have four or five different players scoring our goals as opposed to just one but on the other hand we are not spreading our goal scoring about on a consistent basis. We have played 36 league games this season and in only 15 of those games have we managed to score more than one goal.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We won't get an excellent summer transfer window. There is zero chance of it happening, no chance whatsoever, it is impossible. The agenda of the current owners is not to win trophies or compete on the pitch, it is to compete at the very top of the financial game. They are doing this very well and are winning year after year. If Wenger delivers for them yet again by securing another CL pay day then they will be on track and there will be no need to overachieve. Where's the profit in over-achievement? It is not financially prudent or efficient and will push an exit strategy (which all good investment plans should have) further away. So forget about excellent summer transfer windows from your perspective as a fan. The transfer window will be excellent by a different standard and if Wenger manages to make a profit again he really needs to be acknowledged as a miracle worker. Anyone who needs reassurance on these realities should look back over the past 8 years and examine the late surges, the pre-window speculation, the dead zone that follows and finally (when the window closes) the promises that next year will be the year.

Step in front of a bus, get run over. Step in front of a bus, get run over. Step in front of a bus, get run over. Question. What happens when you step in front of a bus? Answer. We have a £70million war chest, woo-hoo!

So Wenger needs no reprieve. He's the undisputed master of what he has been asked to do. Reprieve from what? What are the fans going to do about any of this? Nothing. The game has moved on from needing the solid core of fans that held football at the heart of their communities. football is a consumer item now. If you don't pick it off the shelf somebody else will. How much do you affect Nike by boycotting their trainers? This is the power of marketing and what has been the stated aim of the current gang at Arsenal? An aim they do not hide but in fact boast about every year?

The problem with Wenger is he thinks he knows much more about the modern game than you. A further problem is he is undoubtedly correct. It's just we don't like the modern game much but that's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

The same applies to Utd. I doubt their marketing potential will be affected at all by the departure of Ferguson. Half the reports yesterday concerned a stock exchange in the USA. Are you getting that? Their fans will be gutted if they have a period where success on the pitch goes into decline. But they'll be ignoring the big picture, success will still flow where it really counts. The dollars will continue to tumble in. David Fucking Moyes? Why not? He'll do what he's told. He's been auditioning for this role for a long time. Loyalty, experience of how the domestic game works, no trophies required. Could they make it any more obvious. Finally Utd are catching up with Arsenal. Well done. The fans won't like it but what are they going to do? Set up another Manchester Utd? Wear black? As Bill Hicks used to observe, hey, the angry anti-marketing segment, strong growth, good opportunities for top dollar earnings. Bill Hicks also used to encourage all marketers to do the world a huge favour and kill themselves. He's dead now, smoked too many of their cigarettes I think.

To be fair if they were interested in marketing us to our full potential they'd not have waited long before now to cut big commercial deals. I think your mistaking incompetence with malign intent, these lot were so much in Wenger's thrall that it's only in the last two years they have insisted on pre-season games in the Far East because Wengy chops insisted on a more small scale affair.
And in Gazidis you have the Artie Pescano of chief executives a man who could and probably has managed to fuck up a cup of coffee, and only has his job because it makes Wenger unsackable.

[selassie]

And in Gazidis you have the Artie Pescano of chief executives a man who could and probably has managed to fuck up a cup of coffee, and only has his job because it makes Wenger unsackable.

Yep, mind you didn't Wenger appoint Gazidis? You really couldn't make this shit up, he actually hired his own boss.

[Dicks and chicks]

It's a really difficult one. One again it looks like we'll limp over the line into the top 4 and to be fair to Wenger he sold RvP, bought two players who are OK but nowhere near in the same league and yet we're still on course for a higher points tally than last year. I don't know how he does it.

same, it really baffles me how he does it, on paper we don't look like a top 4 side when you look at our defence and especially our strike force, players like giroud are genuinely awful but even he manages 10 plus goals in his first year in the EPL. Either the premier league is overrated or wenger is a genius. i genuinely want him to stay for as long as possible, I don't think there is anyone who can do what he does on such a profit. I don't really care about trophies, what we are doing atm is good in the long term, look at a club like liverpool who have splashed millions for an 8th place finish whilst being a one man team, surely they must have big debts now as a result.

[IBK]

Spread about in what sense?....on one hand we have four or five different players scoring our goals as opposed to just one but on the other hand we are not spreading our goal scoring about on a consistent basis. We have played 36 league games this season and in only 15 of those games have we managed to score more than one goal.

I dunno. haven't Giroud, Podolski and Carzola scored the goals that RVP did. Ans none of them were here last season? Having said that, we have suffered from not having someone who can win games on his own, as RVP did.

[IBK]

same, it really baffles me how he does it, on paper we don't look like a top 4 side when you look at our defence and especially our strike force, players like giroud are genuinely awful but even he manages 10 plus goals in his first year in the EPL. Either the premier league is overrated or wenger is a genius. i genuinely want him to stay for as long as possible, I don't think there is anyone who can do what he does on such a profit. I don't really care about trophies, what we are doing atm is good in the long term, look at a club like liverpool who have splashed millions for an 8th place finish whilst being a one man team, surely they must have big debts now as a result.

Reckon that if we finish top 4, we are a top 4 side. Albeit in a season where the competition have all lacked quality.

[Grebbo]

Wenger's the best manager in the league now SAF's gone. Anyone who thinks otherwise is nuts. When Mourinho comes back Wenger will be second best.

No point changing manager unless we change the transfer budget.

As for people saying they don't trust Wenger with money.... Whilst I agree he's bought some shite recently it's difficult to buy quality when your record transfer fee is £15m. Manure spent double that on a centre back and that was 10yrs ago.

I guess people have made their minds up about Wenger and won't change them. I still maintain that the only way you can judge Wenger is by giving him the same transfer budget as the competition.

[Cripps_orig]

You don't make the mistakes he does if you're the best manager in the league.

It has nothing to do with money either

[Power n Glory]

There are quality bargains out there but we keep missing them. It's been a while since Wenger has discovered a gem but other managers have been able to and paid less than £10m for very good players.

[Xhaka Can’t]

There are quality bargains out there but we keep missing them. It's been a while since Wenger has discovered a gem but other managers have been able to and paid less than £10m for very good players.

This is true, but Wenger would no doubt point out that these other Managers are looking up the League table at Wenger. Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go or supporting our transfer approach in any way, I'm just throwing a bit of context in there. For example, earlier this season, people were creaming themselves over Newcastle's transfer activity and on about how Pardue was out manouvering Wenger in his own backyard. Look at them now.

[Power n Glory]

That's the quality of a team, organisation and manager, not indivdual players. I doubt he'd argue that otherwise he'd never buy from lower league clubs. We bought Ox, Walcott and Ramsey from Championship level teams. Arteta came from Everton and Pod wasn playing for Cologne.

I really doubt Wenger would put Newcastle's predicament to poor quality players. Knowing him he'd probably talk about keeping a team together, team spirit and togetherness. When you have a new team with many different cultures and nationalities, it's important to keep them together.

[selassie]

Wenger's the best manager in the league now SAF's gone. Anyone who thinks otherwise is nuts. When Mourinho comes back Wenger will be second best.

No point changing manager unless we change the transfer budget.

As for people saying they don't trust Wenger with money.... Whilst I agree he's bought some shite recently it's difficult to buy quality when your record transfer fee is £15m. Manure spent double that on a centre back and that was 10yrs ago.

I guess people have made their minds up about Wenger and won't change them. I still maintain that the only way you can judge Wenger is by giving him the same transfer budget as the competition.

He's the most prestigious, but the best manager in the League, that is very very debatable. Wenger is still a good manager, but he's no longer part of that "Elite" Group IMHO, he's firmly cemented his place in the 2nd tier. Wenger's faults are not just about money and his transfer policy. IMHO He's made many quite big mistakes over the past 5 years regarding his transfer policy, make up of the squad, wage policy, tactics, player development policy etc

If Wenger was still the best or one of the best we wouldn't have half of the squad on ludicrous wages, let's not pretend we don't have around 7 or 8 'experienced-ish' players out on loan or on the sidelines. This is Wenger's squad, he built it and is responsible for the mess he has got us into.

[Grebbo]

I think Wenger's made a lot of mistakes but ultimately the best players win you trophies and we're unable to buy the best players.

Until we buy world class players we wont be winning anything no matter who our manager is.

I think Wenger is a far better manager than Moyes but Moyes will win a lot more trophies than Wenger.

[IBK]

He's the most prestigious, but the best manager in the League, that is very very debatable. Wenger is still a good manager, but he's no longer part of that "Elite" Group IMHO, he's firmly cemented his place in the 2nd tier. Wenger's faults are not just about money and his transfer policy. IMHO He's made many quite big mistakes over the past 5 years regarding his transfer policy, make up of the squad, wage policy, tactics, player development policy etc

If Wenger was still the best or one of the best we wouldn't have half of the squad on ludicrous wages, let's not pretend we don't have around 7 or 8 'experienced-ish' players out on loan or on the sidelines. This is Wenger's squad, he built it and is responsible for the mess he has got us into.

Past reputation yes, but I'm afraid that AW will find out, even with money to spend, that he is now being passed by a younger; bolder and hungrier breed of manager.

[Power n Glory]

I think Wenger's made a lot of mistakes but ultimately the best players win you trophies and we're unable to buy the best players.

Until we buy world class players we wont be winning anything no matter who our manager is.

I think Wenger is a far better manager than Moyes but Moyes will win a lot more trophies than Wenger.

I disagree with that and it was shown this weekend with City and Wigan. Man Utd wrapped up the title easily and I don't think they have the strongest squad in the league. City and Chelsea had really good squads this year but the management has been poor.

The problem with modern day football is that everyone seems to think you need a team of superstars to win and that's just not true. I like how Dortmund have come through in recent and shown that you don't need a team of superstars to succeed. We need more examples of great teams being assembled. We need efficient and effective players, not necessarily the best.

[Grebbo]

I disagree with that and it was shown this weekend with City and Wigan. Man Utd wrapped up the title easily and I don't think they have the strongest squad in the league. City and Chelsea had really good squads this year but the management has been poor.

The problem with modern day football is that everyone seems to think you need a team of superstars to win and that's just not true. I like how Dortmund have come through in recent and shown that you don't need a team of superstars to succeed. We need more examples of great teams being assembled. We need efficient and effective players, not necessarily the best.

Wigan won a cup but will be relegated so hard to use them as an example of success.

Man Utd have a fantastic squad. What wins you the league is quality in the final third and that's why Chelsea fell short, they have Torres whilst Manure have Rooney and RVP. Put Falcao or Cavani up top for Chelsea and they could probably win the league even with Rafa.

Dortmund have lots of star players. They might have only developed in the last couple of years but they have several world class players in their squad.

I'm not fussed if Wenger is replaced or not but I think it's silly thinking that a new manager will bring success without breaking our transfer record of £15m.

[Niall_Quinn]

I disagree with that and it was shown this weekend with City and Wigan. Man Utd wrapped up the title easily and I don't think they have the strongest squad in the league. City and Chelsea had really good squads this year but the management has been poor.

The problem with modern day football is that everyone seems to think you need a team of superstars to win and that's just not true. I like how Dortmund have come through in recent and shown that you don't need a team of superstars to succeed. We need more examples of great teams being assembled. We need efficient and effective players, not necessarily the best.

We need, above all else, to get rid of shit thinking. If we start next season with the aim of "getting into the top 4" then we've lost before a ball is kicked. That's the first thing that has to go at this club. The loser mentality. We have to have the guts to say we're going full guns for the title and we're going to do it playing a certain style of football that's going to make the whole season a blast - even if we end up 10th. We need to reboot the club.

[JonasTC]

I think its silly to think that wenger is not among the best managers in the world, no other managers have had the challenges that he had and kept his team "successfully" anyway. "But Jonas, what about Dortmund!? They're like arsenal and wenger x 10, omg wenger sucks" - They're only a couple of years into their new stardom and they're already losing all their best players, atleast it took us 10+ years before we started getting raided by corrupt money.

Atleast we'll be able to have a 200th birthday as a club one day, chelski and arab-city will not.

[Power n Glory]

Wigan won a cup but will be relegated so hard to use them as an example of success.

Man Utd have a fantastic squad. What wins you the league is quality in the final third and that's why Chelsea fell short, they have Torres whilst Manure have Rooney and RVP. Put Falcao or Cavani up top for Chelsea and they could probably win the league even with Rafa.

Dortmund have lots of star players. They might have only developed in the last couple of years but they have several world class players in their squad.

I'm not fussed if Wenger is replaced or not but I think it's silly thinking that a new manager will bring success without breaking our transfer record of £15m.

Did Dortmund have to match Bayern's spending power to win two titles in Germany? Did they have to match Real's money to reach the CL final? It's the same principle for Wigan. We can't use the money issue to explain this 8 year drought. We should have at least won an FA Cup and Carling Cup in that period. We've also had chances to win the CL and Prem.

You mention Chelsea having Torres but forget to mention he cost them £50m. That's almost the same amount Man Utd paid for both Rooney and RVP. We don't use our resources wisely and we could just as easily end up with a load of Arshavin type flops on the team if we're not careful.

[IBK]

Did Dortmund have to match Bayern's spending power to win two titles in Germany? Did they have to match Real's money to reach the CL final? It's the same principle for Wigan. We can't use the money issue to explain this 8 year drought. We should have at least won an FA Cup and Carling Cup in that period. We've also had chances to win the CL and Prem.

You mention Chelsea having Torres but forget to mention he cost them £50m. That's almost the same amount Man Utd paid for both Rooney and RVP. We don't use our resources wisely and we could just as easily end up with a load of Arshavin type flops on the team if we're not careful.


I agree. I think Ferguson would have won the league with our squad. All the talk is about how cash strapped we are, but Wenger has squandered our available resources on mediocrity, and his ridiculous wage structure has contributed to some of our best players leaving.

As NQ says - its the mentality, not the players, that are lacking at our club. We have seen how well even this current lot can play when they are on top form - but the manager settles for less than 100%, makes excuses for under-performance and often persists with players who are playing badly. A Fergie or a Klopp simply wouldn't accept this.

[selassie]

I think its silly to think that wenger is not among the best managers in the world, no other managers have had the challenges that he had and kept his team "successfully" anyway. "But Jonas, what about Dortmund!? They're like arsenal and wenger x 10, omg wenger sucks" - They're only a couple of years into their new stardom and they're already losing all their best players, atleast it took us 10+ years before we started getting raided by corrupt money.

Atleast we'll be able to have a 200th birthday as a club one day, chelski and arab-city will not.

Jonas, Dortmund are replacing their players properly! Kagawa left so they replaced him with Reus. Goetze is leaving and it looks like they are replacing him with Eriksen.

The quality of player they are signing to replace their stars is of a High standard.

Our issues are not just about us losing our best players.

[Grebbo]

I agree. I think Ferguson would have won the league with our squad. All the talk is about how cash strapped we are, but Wenger has squandered our available resources on mediocrity, and his ridiculous wage structure has contributed to some of our best players leaving.

As NQ says - its the mentality, not the players, that are lacking at our club. We have seen how well even this current lot can play when they are on top form - but the manager settles for less than 100%, makes excuses for under-performance and often persists with players who are playing badly. A Fergie or a Klopp simply wouldn't accept this.

Saying the greatest manager of all time could have done better with our squad is hardly earth shattering. I still don't think Fergie could win the league with our strike force but he'd have certainly won something in the past 8 years that's for sure.

Anyway who cares. We'll have a new manager eventually, next season will probably be Wenger's last.

[Lord Nelson]

Saying the greatest manager of all time could have done better with our squad is hardly earth shattering. I still don't think Fergie could win the league with our strike force but he'd have certainly won something in the past 8 years that's for sure.

Anyway who cares. We'll have a new manager eventually, next season will probably be Wenger's last.

Amen to that my brother!! (In an Eddie Murphy voice!)

[Power n Glory]

I agree. I think Ferguson would have won the league with our squad. All the talk is about how cash strapped we are, but Wenger has squandered our available resources on mediocrity, and his ridiculous wage structure has contributed to some of our best players leaving.

As NQ says - its the mentality, not the players, that are lacking at our club. We have seen how well even this current lot can play when they are on top form - but the manager settles for less than 100%, makes excuses for under-performance and often persists with players who are playing badly. A Fergie or a Klopp simply wouldn't accept this.

It’s dangerous to think the only solution to our problem is to spend more money and it’s a problem with the Prem in general. It’s the wrong mentality when every manager looks to the transfer market to improve and that’s why we have the sugar daddy clubs inflating the market. Managers putting pressure on Boards to release more funds instead of coaching proper football and playing good tactics. Whatever happened to skilled management? It’s why I have such a problem with managers that make excuses for their poor playing styles and hoof ball tactics. They all seem to say that it costs money to play good football but it doesn’t, it’s down to the coaches to install a philosophy.

Wenger doesn’t adhere to that sort of thinking either and it’s why he’s invested in youth and always looks for value in the market. He’s trying to build and mould a team. He’s always critical of the English way of thinking and says it all the time. ‘You here in England always think the solution is to buy’. I agree with his philosophy but have a serious problem with the execution. That’s where he’s getting it wrong. Besides being wasteful with his resources, his tactics are often bad and takes way too long to adapt to a situation. We can go for months repeating the same mistake or playing out of form players and that’s what kills us.

[selassie]

It’s dangerous to think the only solution to our problem is to spend more money and it’s a problem with the Prem in general. It’s the wrong mentality when every manager looks to the transfer market to improve and that’s why we have the sugar daddy clubs inflating the market. Managers putting pressure on Boards to release more funds instead of coaching proper football and playing good tactics. Whatever happened to skilled management? It’s why I have such a problem with managers that make excuses for their poor playing styles and hoof ball tactics. They all seem to say that it costs money to play good football but it doesn’t, it’s down to the coaches to install a philosophy.

Wenger doesn’t adhere to that sort of thinking either and it’s why he’s invested in youth and always looks for value in the market. He’s trying to build and mould a team. He’s always critical of the English way of thinking and says it all the time. ‘You here in England always think the solution is to buy’. I agree with his philosophy but have a serious problem with the execution. That’s where he’s getting it wrong. Besides being wasteful with his resources, his tactics are often bad and takes way too long to adapt to a situation. We can go for months repeating the same mistake or playing out of form players and that’s what kills us.

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