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AKBapologist
03-09-2013, 02:55 PM
Is this team now strong enough to win something?


Personal opinion, winning of the minor trophies are random luck, last season's FA cup winners got relegated, countless carling cup squads did too. I believe we've had bad luck (seeing things accumulatively, and ignoring the detail... like the 89th minute on the league cup finals... or getting knocked out of cups by teams like bradford).

You could correctly argue about some *insert intangible buzz word here* being missing from the squad, but when we've been doggedly chasing champions league football (again, correctly IMO - if you think Ozil would have even considered joining us if we had come fifth... HO HO HO) it seemed like we just didn't have had enough *insert intangible buzz word here* to really spare IMO.

Maybe... just maybe... things change with Ozil and Flamini...

1)
I think I cracked the moment Flamini joined. At that point I felt that the symbolism reflected a club that had truly submerged into self parody. Age, injury record and technical performance from his stint over at Milan seemed like someone who'd be only slightly better than a big bag of money blocking the near post.

However... At spurs, his work rate, discipline and perhaps, even leadership kind of impressed me, and if he's able to replicate that every match he plays in, he will take a load off the shoulders off Wilshire and Ramsey who I believe were red-lining themselves and probably close to stress injuries of their own. Sure, we don't have a big powerful *Viera type* but we saw just how clumsy and immobile such a player could be in the NLD.

In a 4-2-3-1, the 2's are more about the engine, tackling, positioning, and not playing hospital balls. If you have all of that, it shouldn't really matter how tall and muscular you are imo. If Flamini has that, then we might just have enough to do more than just scrape for 4th atm, at least in that position...
(Arteta, Ramsey, Wilshire, Flamini)


2)
Yes we definitely needed a striker or a natural winger more and i'll come to that point later however...
OZIL
Not as two footed as Carzola (favours left) but he does have pace/acceleration and intelligence abundance. Some may consider him to be the most self indulgent of luxuries, but in the 3 part of our 4-2-3-1, we don't have very many options, especially with the injuries we currently have.
Theo's typically going to be on the right, Rosicky in the middle, podlski on the left. Beyond that, AOC, Carzola and OZIL are what I like to describe as liquid midfielders, IE, the players for whom Wengerball was designed.

Going forward I'd imagine whenever Carzola and Ozil are on the pitch, they'd be designated as wingers on the team sheet but generally given free reign. Until AOC or Podliski returns, I'd imagine Ozil spending more time between the left, with Carzola shifting to the center and Walcott on the right....
A natural, pacey left sided, left footed winger would have been good for a number of options...
One, we could rely less on Walcott's pace to break and get ourselves out of holes.
Two, we'd put more strain on opposition full backs in that area of the pitch - as it seems like far more successful crosses into our box come from the left.
Three, just having a natural left winger who makes the pitch larger, gets to the byline and crosses early would be a revelation, I don't think we've had one of those for ages. I do wonder if Miyiachi can wise up and pick up some of the slack in terms of pacey, break out of jail card... at least on the right wing... We'll see...

The bottom line however is, OZIL is OZIL, WENGERBALL 3.0 fast approaches and may be the best version yet.
http://i.minus.com/iYRyXvvxKZ5nw.gif


3)
I think Giroud is a good striker. I like him. However...
There's two problems he has to overcome.
1) Will he be fit for +40 games?
2) Will he win us games when the rest of the team inevitably plays shit.
I have no illusions about his potential... One the one side, he scores all most all of his shots on goal, wins headers and has good movement, on the other hand, he has too few shots on goal %, misdirects perhaps too many headers, and may not be fast enough for wengerball 3.0.
Unfortunately, he's not enough. Not nearly enough for a cup winning side, and I suppose few strikers are. However... with Podolski injured, the competitive pressure is off, and perhaps maybe that's a good thing for both Giroud and Sanogo...


So....


Between now and Jan, I hope Wenger is whispering sweet-nothings to shrek, who would pretty much complete our first 11. Then maybe, just maybe, the quadruple may be on this season or the next.
:whacky:

GP
03-09-2013, 02:57 PM
Regarding Giroud's fitness, he's had something like a month off injured TOTAL since 2005. His fitness record is sublime, like his face.

PGFC
03-09-2013, 03:05 PM
What :coffee:

AKBapologist
03-09-2013, 03:10 PM
Regarding Giroud's fitness, he's had something like a month off injured TOTAL since 2005. His fitness record is sublime, like his face.

A career in Arsenal is enough to ruin anyone's fitness record tbh. Though his face will always be sublime...

Marc Overmars
03-09-2013, 03:12 PM
Don't think the squad is good enough to win the league or CL, Ozil is a brilliant signing but we probably needed 1 or 2 more of his calibre to round off the squad. I just don't want to see us slugging it out for 4th again, to me that shows no improvement or cause for optimism. Even a half-baked title challenge would at least show we might be going somewhere. In the CL we are some way off from Europe's best, so I don't expect anything more than a 2nd round exit again.

I agree the cups are pot luck but hopefully we take them seriously, the longer this burden of no trophies goes on the more restless fans will get.

Dennis Bendtner
03-09-2013, 03:14 PM
If Ollie Guru is out at any stage then maybe 4-6-0 is the way forward.

Kano
03-09-2013, 03:16 PM
none of our failures in the domestic cups comes down to any sort of bad luck.

signing ozil doesn't change my belief that wenger is no longer good enough to manage a squad over the course of a season to get the best out of them.

AKBapologist
03-09-2013, 03:20 PM
none of our failures in the domestic cups comes down to any sort of bad luck.

signing ozil doesn't change my belief that wenger is no longer good enough to manage a squad over the course of a season to get the best out of them.

I disagree. RVP going off injured in that cup final meant we where in the silly position we were in.


And our squad has been shockingly shit for 2-3 years. Selling our best players year after year and still coming 4th - I don't see any other manager coming close to doing the same with that squad.

Kano
03-09-2013, 03:23 PM
and we threw the game away with shocking defending. the game was against birmingham by the way. a team who had been in the premiership for less than a season.

there are no excuses. wenger has managed the team poorly for a while and our performance that day was awful. that doesn't come down to luck. just lack of motivation and a poor attitude.

if these performances were one off's then fine but a pattern has emerged. it's no coincidence.

fakeyank
03-09-2013, 03:28 PM
I still think we are a striker and a winger short of a good squad. I love Giroud (no homo) and I think he is a top striker but we have no plan B if he is injured or not in his mojo.

Kano
03-09-2013, 03:29 PM
wot a homo

AKBapologist
03-09-2013, 03:29 PM
and we threw the game away with shocking defending. the game was against birmingham by the way. a team who had been in the premiership for less than a season.

there is no excuses. wenger has managed the team poorly for a while and our performance that day was awful. that doesn't come down to luck. just lack of motivation and a poor attitude.

if these performances were one off's then fine but a pattern has emerged. it's no coincidence.

You say that as if Birmingham just happened to be in the final as if by accident. Anyway, you can talk about intangibles like motivation or bottle until your blue in the face, but if the squad is as good as you believe it to be, statistically we've been unlucky.


Personally, I think the players have just been a little bit shit. We saw just how big a difference dropping vermealen had to our shit defence, and all those moaning about how wenger can't do counter attacking footy or defend set pieces have suspiciously shut the fuck up over the last few months... Individual's matter more than the manager imo, and we just haven't had the quality, nor the luck to fluke cups like liverpool or spurs have in the last few years... (unless you want to tell me kenny or twitchy are better managers than AW?)

Kano
03-09-2013, 03:38 PM
You say that as if Birmingham just happened to be in the final as if by accident. Anyway, you can talk about intangibles like motivation or bottle until your blue in the face, but if the squad is as good as you believe it to be, statistically we've been unlucky.


Personally, I think the players have just been a little bit shit. We saw just how big a difference dropping vermealen had to our shit defence, and all those moaning about how wenger can't so counter attacking footy or defend set pieces have suspiciously shut the fuck up over the last few months... Individual's matter more than the manager imo, and we just haven't had the quality, nor the luck to fluke cups like liverpool or spurs have in the last few years... (unless you want to tell me kenny or twichy are better managers than AW?)
yes, birmingham beat the might rochdale, mk dons, brentford, villa and west ham en route. so luck exists in the draw and that's where it ends. when you see a pattern over years of failing, then those intangibles offer a clarity that all the stats in the world can cheat you out of. and statistically unlucky? what does that even mean, misfortune through accountancy?

and liverpool and spurs have had the quality to win cups, when we've been the better team? they were clearly switched on at the right time to win the games. that comes from the manager. what happened at the end of that game was clear to see and a reflection of the poor defending and lack of communication that had cost us so many times before and since then, until seemingly last season.

we're all very happy with this signing but it doesn't rewrite history.

AKBapologist
03-09-2013, 03:48 PM
Watching Liverpool win on pens after sloppy defending against championship Cardiff City, or seeing petr cech's shocker against spurs means all I can do is roll my eyes at that ^^ tbh. Yes, we were poor, but I've seen poorer teams and even worse performances win those cups. Who ever wins them has no bearing on the quality of the side or manager whatsoever, especially the league cup.

Ollie the Optimist
03-09-2013, 04:14 PM
I think ozil gives everyone a lot of belief. Just look at our reactions to it amd that of the players. It's created a buzz. Also rival clubs are jealous amd slightly nervous. Barring Chelsea.

Flamini is a good signing too. He was barking orders at players during NLD amd worked bloody hard. There is no doubting this teams spirit and desire now, someone said that since January 2013 we have the most points out of anyone. Ozil builds on that by being a match winner.

Will we win something this year because of ozil? Probably not. Will he inspire a lot of fans and players into believing this club is now ambitious amd wanting to win something ? You bet he will. There is a buzz around us now, lets build on it by winning games and giving it our all. We will finish above spurs amd united this season IMO. With possibly one trophy too

Munchies
03-09-2013, 05:27 PM
wot a homo

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TDrATtloysw/UW7O5-32A0I/AAAAAAAAR3A/qfNXlmJ-jVI/s640/olivier-giroud-menhealth2.jpg

Cripps_orig
03-09-2013, 05:28 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TDrATtloysw/UW7O5-32A0I/AAAAAAAAR3A/qfNXlmJ-jVI/s640/olivier-giroud-menhealth2.jpg

:sick:

Dein-machine
03-09-2013, 05:34 PM
totally agree - we were previoulsy linked with virtually everyone that we've been linked with recently inc Shrek, Suarez & Demba Ba but as usual did nothing about it because they were TOO expensive, inc Ozil a few years ago. How come is OK to pay 20 million more & line the pockets of others a few years later. Barkley at Everton will be the next big thing. ******* will say what a great player he is, Mancs will buy him for £10 mill & we'll be prepared to pay £30 mill in 2 years. Why not do it now & if we ever have to sell him its our profit. The way he handle our transfer business is a disgrace & the signing of Ozil shouldn't hide this fact. Offering £40mill+ a quid to Liverpool!!!! - we have people trying to play poker when they're out of their league!!!

Munchies
03-09-2013, 05:36 PM
The whole transfer strategy needs a complete overhaul from now, and we should place internal deadlines to act upon rather than the given ones. We should have all our signings done and dusted by the end of July, like Man City. If there is a top player about to go somewhere , which will be the case after the world cup, we should try and make a move beforehand and get the player. Similar to Rosicky in 06, he played a blinder and it felt great managing to get him before the tournament. Wenger said he doesn't want a director of football over him, but we need to highlight the problem areas of the squad each season, and try and bring in reinforcements for this. Not saying we need to spend another £40m on a player (but we have £50m still left, and if a player like Suarez is avaiable, then yeah go for him) but the team needs additions each year.

Dein-machine
03-09-2013, 05:39 PM
totally agree - we were previoulsy linked with virtually everyone that we've been linked with recently inc Shrek, Suarez & Demba Ba but as usual did nothing about it because they were TOO expensive, inc Ozil a few years ago. How come is OK to pay 20 million more & line the pockets of others a few years later. Barkley at Everton will be the next big thing. ******* will say what a great player he is, Mancs will buy him for £10 mill & we'll be prepared to pay £30 mill in 2 years. Why not do it now & if we ever have to sell him its our profit. The way he handle our transfer business is a disgrace & the signing of Ozil shouldn't hide this fact. Offering £40mill+ a quid to Liverpool!!!! - we have people trying to play poker when they're out of their league!!!

Ollie the Optimist
03-09-2013, 05:47 PM
Blind faith is back I see :lol:

Özil's Panoramic View
03-09-2013, 05:49 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TDrATtloysw/UW7O5-32A0I/AAAAAAAAR3A/qfNXlmJ-jVI/s640/olivier-giroud-menhealth2.jpg

What an ugly fuck.

PGFC
03-09-2013, 05:51 PM
What an ugly fuck.

You've had better then?

Power n Glory
03-09-2013, 06:08 PM
Just enjoy the signing and wait for results on the pitch. It's a good day for once and we spent the money on a quality player. Wenger showed that he really is after quality players, Gazidis and Stan showed that they're listening.

fakeyank
03-09-2013, 06:12 PM
What kind of formation are we going to play with him?

Niall_Quinn
03-09-2013, 06:26 PM
Hold on. We're fucked off because they won't spend money and we're fucked off because they will spend money?

Power n Glory
03-09-2013, 07:01 PM
If he'd have blown that sort of money on a bunch of players like Cabaye and Ba, then I could understand. But this is Ozil. German international, former Real Madrid player, still very young, a five year deal....it's extremely good business.

dazthegooner
04-09-2013, 06:22 AM
Ok maybe we could have signed players earlier, but then we might not have signed Ozil Madrid would not have sold him if they didn't signed Bale

Marc Overmars
04-09-2013, 07:55 AM
Just enjoy the signing and wait for results on the pitch. It's a good day for once and we spent the money on a quality player. Wenger showed that he really is after quality players, Gazidis and Stan showed that they're listening.

By all accounts it seemed like everyone at the club pulled their weight when making this happen, even Stan.

Stan. :bow:

Gazidis. :bow:

Wenget. :bow:

And most importantly:

Poldi and Merts. :bow:

Özim
04-09-2013, 08:04 AM
By all accounts it seemed like everyone at the club pulled their weight when making this happen, even Stan.

Zim. :bow:

Stan. :bow:

Gazidis. :bow:

Wenget. :bow:

And most importantly:

Poldi and Merts. :bow:

Thanks yeah it was touch and go for a bit but in the end Wenger finally listened to me and did the right thing. It felt like I was banging my head against a brick wall for a while tbh.

Nayan
06-09-2013, 07:50 AM
A career in Arsenal is enough to ruin anyone's fitness record tbh. Though his face will always be sublime...

while we are a bunch of mugs hiding behind a couple of overworked stars thats true. If we have lots of good players rotating and feeling like part of squad it changes. Thats one reason why RvC is less likely to get crocked at united