Match reaction v the orcs

[Ollie the Optimist]

WE ARE TOP OF THE LEAGUE, SAY WE ARE TOP OF THE LEAGUE.


out stoking stoke. lovely stuff.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Mourinhoesque performance from us. Don't think we were amazing but we had the quality to get the three points which is all that matters.

Will write more later.

WE ARE TOP OF THE LEAGUE! WE ARE TOP OF THE LEAGUE!

[Ollie the Optimist]

Ramsey shhing the orcs was my favourite moment of the game.

[LDG]

Good stuff.

Not amazing, but there are some tired legs out there at the moment. We need players back to give some legs a rest.

What is good, is that we are finding ways to score when other things don't work. The dead ball quality of özil helped there.

:scarf:

[GP]

Choo Choo Motherfuckers.

[Munchies]

Top Of the League :bow:
Ozil - 3 assists :bow:
Ramsey :bow:
Stoke Shitty :pal:

[Marc Overmars]

Not the most free flowing or exciting game we'll ever see but a pretty effective performance none the less. Pubbing in 3 goals from set pieces, fucking love it. Don't think any of the attacking players stood out but the defence were pretty sound.

Top of the league, 4 league wins from 5, 7 wins on the spin and our best start in 5 years. Lovely stuff.

[Ollie the Optimist]

its taken Ozil two games to get to the top of the assists chart in the league.


but we dont need ozil according to some

[Penguin]

Not the best performance but we got the result. It's not easy to do that after a testing midweek CL match but we got the job done.

Ozil :bow:

[GP]

Not the most free flowing or exciting game we'll ever see but a pretty effective performance none the less. Pubbing in 3 goals from set pieces, fucking love it. Don't think any of the attacking players stood out but the defence were pretty sound.

Top of the league, 4 league wins from 5, 7 wins on the spin and our best start in 5 years. Lovely stuff.

No one saw it coming after the Villa game. It's been a great reaction.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Ozil. :bow:

Ramsey. :bow:

Merts. :bow:

Flamster. :bow:

Gibbs. :bow:

Arsenal. :bow:


Hughes. :haha:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Totally scuffed a win with set pieces. Great stuff. :bow:

[milla]

Good win, we stoked the Uruk-hais good and proper. Gnabry looks good, very composed on the ball (could be a bit more adventurous with his runs, he got a lot of pace).

Very good team performance, the team show a lot of togetherness and work really hard for each other. Overall we got what we deserved. :coffee:

[Marc Overmars]

Stoke trying to play football. :console:

I'll give it a few more games before Hughes realises there's no point and brings out the Pulis blueprint.

[Munchies]

Yep, first tiem I saw Gnabry and he impressed, very good with the ball and is only going to improve.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Pretty poor performance but we seemed to have learnt the lessons somewhat from the villa game early on in the season, seems like we are playing like the away team at home and the home team away from home.

Szczesny 6/10 - Did nothing wrong came out and claimed when he had to and made two solid saves, could do nothing about the Stoke goal.

Gibbs 5/10 - Was caught in possession far too often putting unnecessary pressure on us.

Koscielny 6/10 - Relatively quiet but backed up Mertesacker when it was required.

Mertesacker 7/10 - Looked solid from set pieces defensively and looked dangerous from set pieces offensively....perhaps could have dealt with Arnautovic better for the first goal.

Sagna 6/10 - didn't provide too much impetus going forward, took his goal well though and defended well with the exception of a free kick conceded in the first half

Flamini 7/10 - gives the back four protection in a way that Ramsey and Arteta do not.

Ramsey 6/10 - took his goal well and generally his passing found it's intended target, guilty of getting caught in possession through dithering once or twice and putting other players under pressure with heavy passes

Ozil 7/10 - Difficult always to establish himself in a scrappy game but his set piece delivery was excellent as was the range of his passing.

Gnabry 6/10 - Grew into the game after looking a bit physically weak at the start on the wing, but began to impose himself on the game although he began drifting inside too much leaving us without much natural width.

Wilshere 5/10 - Too much of his passing didn't come off, a lot of heavy touches and seemed to be frustrated by the amount of physical attention he received from Steven Nzonzi.

Giroud 6/10 - Couldn't carve out any real openings for himself in front of goal, but held up the ball very well and provided opportunities for his team mates.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Fair scores/analysis, except I'd give Ozil an 8 and Ramsey a 7.

[Ollie the Optimist]

The club that lacked the 'ambition' and 'firepower' to challenge for the title now leads the Premier League on the strength of their £40 million midfielder. Work that one out.

the final line in the telegraphs match report. makes lovely reading that.


Ozil :bow:

[Syn]

Flamini 7/10 - gives the back four protection in a way that Ramsey and Arteta do not.
.

:lol:


Orbinho @Orbinho


Aaron Ramsey made the most tackles in today's game (6) and the joint-most this season (26) along with Lucas.

those ratings and observations are off the mark. Giroud had a stinker in the second half - fucked up so many counter opportunities when Stoke held a higher line. Defence was dodgy all the way through. Wilshere was decent, creating a few opportunities, particularly in playing Giroud through and Ozil in the second. Also made some good runs - one in particular that Giroud could've easily played him through on goal in the second half but messed up the header. Flamini was ok but they were allowed too much space in the centre. We definitely missed Theo but Gnabry had a good half until he was subbed. Hope he's ok to return next week.

Wasn't a good performance. Everyone was quite sloppy again. Some players definitely need a game off to recover. Quite clear to see our midfield apart from Ramsey are not fit enough atm to handle 2 games a week for 6-7 weeks in a row.

[Master Splinter]

Arsenal :bow:.

Missed the first half, but we seemed to be letting Stoke have the ball knowing they couldn't really harm us with football, as we did against Marseille. Seems to be working too.

Pubbing in three against Stoke is quite satisfying.

BFG, Gibbs, Giroud (winning free-kicks and setting others up) appeared to be playing well and Szczesny looked really solid again.

Ramsey :bow:.

Ozil :bow:.

Good to see Gnabry and Ryo getting some playing time and Arteta back.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/220275/ramsey-classless-prick

They're not happy :haha::haha:

[GP]

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/220275/ramsey-classless-prick

They're not happy :haha::haha:

:haha:

http://awesomelyluvvie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Pot_Calling_the_Kettle_Black_T-Shirt.png

[Marc Overmars]

He's booed every time he takes the pitch against them so why shouldn't give a little back?

Cry me a river.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

It's starting to come together nicely

Ozil the assist king

Ramsey the Lampard

Flamini excellent again. Well deserved MOTM.

Mertesacker is the key in defence.

Giroud an absolute beast up top

Only worry is Jack but we're winning so fuck it

TOP OF THE LEAGUE !!!!!!

[Master Splinter]

50/50 tackle tbh.

Ramsey should apologise for getting snapped.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Mertesacker brought out the awful mid-pitch kneeslide celebration again. :bow:

Great plan on corners to float it in for him given Ozil is actually good at it.

[Munchies]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0DtDu9-cVCM/Uj8VGJk-hWI/AAAAAAAAA8o/EFPYwUXGVn4/w830-h615-no/Screen+Shot+2013-09-22+at+19.04.36.png

[Master Splinter]

BFG our best captain ever?

[Ollie the Optimist]

WE ARE TOP OF THE LEAGUE SAY WE ARE TOP OF THE LEAGUE

[Japan Shaking All Over]

No one saw it coming after the Villa game. It's been a great reaction.

:clap:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

BFG our best captain ever?

Well he may just well be the first captain since Paddy that doesn't become worse when wearing the armband????

[Xhaka Can’t]

"I just hope Aaron realises, he's had chances to diffuse the situation, when he arrives at the Britannia for the return fixture"

Personally, I hope he scores a hattrick.

[Ollie the Optimist]

they fail to realise that the man who massively inflamed the sitauation was that baseball cap wearing cunt with his whole "ryans crying, he had to be picked up by his mum" bollocks

[Dennis Bendtner]

He will be getting it both barrels from me when we play em at our place.
The little prick deserves all the abuse he will get,fuck him.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BUxL6McCAAAjluN.jpg

[Syn]

The 'shhh' celebration is a bit gay though. But tbh as far as I can see it could just as well be directed to the Arsenal fans or media or twitter mavericks like Piers Morgan as the Stoke fans.

[Özim]

Won the game got the points that's what matters, wasn't vintage Arsenal and we'll need to improve for the big games but we're top of the league at the moment so got to be happy with that.

[Ollie the Optimist]

it was clearly directed at the stoke fans given he ran past them.

[hobson's choice]

Sloppy performance, particularly in the 2nd, but heh, we got the points, and keep it rolling.

That N'zonzi is a good player, was impressed

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It was signalling the next celeb's last breath.

[Ollie the Optimist]

stoke fan on twitter, using a photo of ramseys leg AFTER the tackle as conclusive proof that shawcross didnt break it.


stoke fans are a special breed of stupid arent they?

[footloose, the wanderer]

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/220275/ramsey-classless-prick

They're not happy :haha::haha:

Just check out their icons/quotes........gormless bunch of knuckle dragging troglodytes :p ....................with apologies to troglodytes everywhere

[Power n Glory]

:lol:



those ratings and observations are off the mark. Giroud had a stinker in the second half - fucked up so many counter opportunities when Stoke held a higher line. Defence was dodgy all the way through. Wilshere was decent, creating a few opportunities, particularly in playing Giroud through and Ozil in the second. Also made some good runs - one in particular that Giroud could've easily played him through on goal in the second half but messed up the header. Flamini was ok but they were allowed too much space in the centre. We definitely missed Theo but Gnabry had a good half until he was subbed. Hope he's ok to return next week.

Wasn't a good performance. Everyone was quite sloppy again. Some players definitely need a game off to recover. Quite clear to see our midfield apart from Ramsey are not fit enough atm to handle 2 games a week for 6-7 weeks in a row.

A bit harsh. Flamini was pretty solid and Stoke weren't really a threat to us even though they had more possession than usual. MOTM for him. He's slotting in and covering well. Ramsey and Ozil weren't really helping on the defensive side of things to be fair.

Giroud wasn't that bad. Some bad touches and moments from him but he did his usual hard work and helped on the physical side with defensive headers and knock downs. Wilshere struggled in that game. 6 rating max for him.

Theo.....we passed poorly and really hard to say if we missed Theo because he doesn't contribute much further back in the field. Holding the line and looking to get in behind might not have been enough for that game.

The midfield trio needs work. Ozil will drift and contribute in the final third but we're still missing that player that will just keep the ball moving and control our tempo. Will be interesting to see what happens when Cazorla and Rosicky are back. Arteta is also fit and maybe he can get back to playing as a CM and move away from defensive duties.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Yeah pretty clear it was for the orcs else he'd have done it after his first goal of the season like Stewart Downing.

[Ollie the Optimist]

apparently he tapped his ankle before the shh? dont remember seeing that myself


and according to fans at the ground, after sagna scored, chesney made the wanker sign at the orcs :lol:

[Dennis Bendtner]

Flamini is doing quite well in his role but there is still a lot of space in front of the centre-backs much of the time. We'll get better with Arteta playing there.

[milla]

Flamini is doing quite well in his role but there is still a lot of space in front of the centre-backs much of the time. We'll get better with Arteta playing there.

As long Flamini is fit to play, Arteta would be warming the bench IMO. :coffee:

[Power n Glory]

Flamini is doing quite well in his role but there is still a lot of space in front of the centre-backs much of the time. We'll get better with Arteta playing there.

It was the same last season with Arteta. Only so much one man can cover but with Flam at least we get that energy required to cover ground and that nasty streak to go in hard when needed.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

As long Flamini is fit to play, Arteta would be warming the bench IMO. :coffee:

Not just would but Should as well.

Can see Arteta being sold at the end of the season...not that he's done anything really wrong since he's been here but i think he's surplas to requirements.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Not just would but Should as well.

Can see Arteta being sold at the end of the season...not that he's done anything really wrong since he's been here but i think he's surplas to requirements.

surplas to requirements? yes our bench in recent weeks shows we can just kick out players like Arteta at the end of the season

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/220275/ramsey-classless-prick

They're not happy :haha::haha:

Let's be fair these people are provincial troglodytes....and i can make that assertion after a year of living in Hanley in Stoke on Trent, not a day passed without people (not homeless i should add) begging in the street for money.....the amount of examples i saw of hostility towards racial minorities, alcohol related violence and not to mention a pawn shop on every street corner.
You'd be hard pushed to find a bigger dive in the entire country.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

surplas to requirements? yes our bench in recent weeks shows we can just kick out players like Arteta at the end of the season

We can't stick Arteta up front, on the wing or in defence.....the areas where we are light so yes he is surplass to requirement....considering when we have everyone fit we have eight players vying for three positions in central midfield.

[Marc Overmars]

He's competing with Flamini for one position, that hardly makes him surplus.

[fakeyank]

When are Podolski and Ox coming back? We need them to have more options up top?

[Ollie the Optimist]

When are Podolski and Ox coming back? We need them to have more options up top?

podolski could be back for napoli apparently. same with Santi.

Ox is out till christmas i think

[fakeyank]

What happened to Ox? :(

Did he tear ligaments? I remember him being stretched off in the Villa game..

[Marc Overmars]

podolski could be back for napoli apparently. same with Santi.

Ox is out till christmas i think

I think Podolski and Oxlade were ruled out for a similar period of time (2-3 months), I don't expect to see them for at least another month.

Hope Cazorla does indeed make it back soon though.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He's competing with Flamini for one position, that hardly makes him surplus.

Oh you mean the position that he doesn't naturally play in and has just been shoe-horned into even though he's not particularly that good at it and is far more of an offensive midfielder. So yes he is surplus to requirements, but it hardly matters because like i say he will be here for the rest of the season at least....and if we get rid of Rosicky and Diaby as well like we should we can perhaps bring in another defensive minded midfielder for the cover for Flamini that you think we need.


So from next season we would have Ramsey (who i am still far from convinced about), Wilshere (same as with Ramsey), Ozil, Cazorla, Flamini and someone else.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I think Podolski and Oxlade were ruled out for a similar period of time (2-3 months), I don't expect to see them for at least another month.

Hope Cazorla does indeed make it back soon though.

think it was the mirror (might have been the mail) who siad he was making good progress and napoli was a target. i think Podolski will be back by end of ocotber. perhaps the second round of COC if we get through would be a realistic target

[Ollie the Optimist]

Oh you mean the position that he doesn't naturally play in and has just been shoe-horned into even though he's not particularly that good at it and is far more of an offensive midfielder. So yes he is surplus to requirements, but it hardly matters because like i say he will be here for the rest of the season at least....and if we get rid of Rosicky and Diaby as well like we should we can perhaps bring in another defensive minded midfielder for the cover for Flamini that you think we need.


So from next season we would have Ramsey (who i am still far from convinced about), Wilshere (same as with Ramsey), Ozil, Cazorla, Flamini and someone else.


get rid of arteta and rosicky? what are you on? both bloody good squad players, who can do a job. are professional, leaders on the pitch. getting rid of them would be stupid. even if they are just squad players, they are bloody good options

[Dr Singh]

Oh you mean the position that he doesn't naturally play in and has just been shoe-horned into even though he's not particularly that good at it and is far more of an offensive midfielder. So yes he is surplus to requirements, but it hardly matters because like i say he will be here for the rest of the season at least....and if we get rid of Rosicky and Diaby as well like we should we can perhaps bring in another defensive minded midfielder for the cover for Flamini that you think we need.

So from next season we would have Ramsey (who i am still far from convinced about), Wilshere (same as with Ramsey), Ozil, Cazorla, Flamini and someone else.

I'm not even Arteta's biggest fan, but I can say he's of vital use to our squad. He isn't a natural "DCM" if that's what you mean, but then you can say the same thing about Pirlo, Xavi and at a stretch Alonso. All of them are deep lying playmakers who have a defensive game based on interceptions. It's a different type of game to a physical imposing DCM like Gattuso, De Rossi or even Flamini.

His position is certainly in our midfield two though. If you are suggesting that his natural position is higher up the pitch, then you are very mistaken. When he first started making a name for himself over a decade ago, it was as a deep lying playmaker from Barcelona at Rangers. That was, is, and has always has been his "natural position" despite his creative exploits at Everton.

While he isn't a natural combative DCM, he's a good competition for Flamini and helps solidify our midfield. Perhaps not a starter, but a great squad player, whether it be for this season or the next. We currently have ONLY 4 players I am content with sitting in our double pivot - Ramsey, Flamini, Arteta and Jack. He's crucially important to our season.

[Dennis Bendtner]

It was the same last season with Arteta. Only so much one man can cover but with Flam at least we get that energy required to cover ground and that nasty streak to go in hard when needed.

I don't think it was. Arteta and Ramsey together was a good combination for us last season and filled space very well to help the defence. Arteta also picked the ball off the technically limited centre-back (Mertesacker) from deep allowing us to build attacks. I can see why people like Flamini's work rate but he's not exactly doing anything amazing. He was a good free transfer when we could have got ripped off signing a dud. As far as balance goes Arteta should come back in in my opinion. Christ knows how the idea that he's not good at his job has come this far. As far as the long term goes, we'll be looking for someone with similar qualities but obviously younger and more mobile.

[Dr Singh]

Anyway, as far is match reaction to the game, I'm delighted!

Chensey has been solid for a while now. Caught absolutely everything cleanly and was decisive which is all you can ask for.

Back 4 were solid. Captain Mert in particular stood out. I'm happy with him being our first team captain. He should get the job permanently.

Flamini and Ramsey have formed a great partnership. Regarding the whole Arteta returning situation, I'd say if it aint broke - don't fix it. Those two work great together, and it's nice to have options. Glad Arteta is back though as they could certainly do with a break.

Ozil was pretty anonymous yet got 3 assists, as ridiculous as that sounds!

We didn't miss Theo much. Don't think this was the sort of game he'd thrive in, and Gnarby was good at showing for the ball and retaining it.

Jack had an up and down performance. Many are slating him for it but I think he put in a good display and it's something to build on. I must say I do worry for him though. For such a small guy he doesn't know how to protect himself. He loves going for those balls even when there's a guarantee he'll get crunched hard after. I know he's brave and that's great, but he's no use to us injured. He needs to protect himself a bit better.

Giroud I think again is getting unfairly slated. He just went up against one of the most imposing, nasty and aggressive CB pairings in the league, and left with a lot of credit. He held the ball up well on occasions, never hid, and actually won the majority of the arial battles. A very impressive display despite lacking that final bit of quality needed for him to score. Impressive performance from him for me.

We're certainly a team on form. Loving this! The games can't come soon enough!

[Dennis Bendtner]

podolski could be back for napoli apparently. same with Santi.

Ox is out till christmas i think

Wenger still thought there wouldn't be anyone back before the international break post-match today.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I believe that unlike past seasons, Arteta may not be guaranteed first 11 especially because I also believe we will try and strengthen with a natural DM if not Jan defo next summer!
however get rid of him.....no way! great squad player to have, experience and knowledge to pass on to the next generation. I mean if we can keep the likes of NB for aslong as we have.....then Arteta should be still here when he is in his 90s

[Ollie the Optimist]

Wenger still thought there wouldn't be anyone back before the international break post-match today.

ah fair enough. i missed his post match conference

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Just check out their icons/quotes........gormless bunch of knuckle dragging troglodytes :p ....................with apologies to troglodytes everywhere



Let him off for delibereatey undermingbh career if our captain and taking it po our supporters all fair enough butwe are in is head and need to make the most of very chink at he Brit

Read more: http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/220275/ramsey-classless-prick#page=1#ixzz2feamZkvm

and if anyone can work out what this example of 'God getting it wrong'is trying to say

[Power n Glory]

I don't think it was. Arteta and Ramsey together was a good combination for us last season and filled space very well to help the defence. Arteta also picked the ball off the technically limited centre-back (Mertesacker) from deep allowing us to build attacks. I can see why people like Flamini's work rate but he's not exactly doing anything amazing. He was a good free transfer when we could have got ripped off signing a dud. As far as balance goes Arteta should come back in in my opinion. Christ knows how the idea that he's not good at his job has come this far. As far as the long term goes, we'll be looking for someone with similar qualities but obviously younger and more mobile.

Why do you think the Flamini and Ramsey combo isn't working? It's not as if Flamini ventures that far up field and then when you look at the goals Ramsey is scoring.....he's moving further up field even more. Towards the end of last season he started getting games down the centre again but when we were desperate for points. He was more defensive minded then or that was the call of the day because had to tighten up at the back. Also worth pointing out that we had Rosicky. He doesn't float about from flank to flank as much as Ozil does or Jack for that matter.

[JonasTC]

TOP OF THE LEAGUE!! :D

I love how we scored the stoke way and stoke decided to do a classic Arsenal goal :)

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

There was me thinking Arteta and Ramsey playing together was the reason we got blitzed at home to Bayern Munich, no protection in front of the back four and no cohesiveness in midfield....playing them together for me was a disaster....because even when we had a winning run with them in midfield towards the back end of last season the performances were dreadful...struggling to beat QPR, Fulham etc
Then again if Ramsey wasn't scoring goals i'd be happy for neither of them to play, and have a three man midfield consisting of three of the four of Ozil, Wilshere, Cazorla and Flamini.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Arteta is integral and remains so imo.

[milla]

Anyway, as far is match reaction to the game, I'm delighted!

Chensey has been solid for a while now. Caught absolutely everything cleanly and was decisive which is all you can ask for.

Back 4 were solid. Captain Mert in particular stood out. I'm happy with him being our first team captain. He should get the job permanently.

Flamini and Ramsey have formed a great partnership. Regarding the whole Arteta returning situation, I'd say if it aint broke - don't fix it. Those two work great together, and it's nice to have options. Glad Arteta is back though as they could certainly do with a break.

Ozil was pretty anonymous yet got 3 assists, as ridiculous as that sounds!

We didn't miss Theo much. Don't think this was the sort of game he'd thrive in, and Gnarby was good at showing for the ball and retaining it.

Jack had an up and down performance. Many are slating him for it but I think he put in a good display and it's something to build on. I must say I do worry for him though. For such a small guy he doesn't know how to protect himself. He loves going for those balls even when there's a guarantee he'll get crunched hard after. I know he's brave and that's great, but he's no use to us injured. He needs to protect himself a bit better.

Giroud I think again is getting unfairly slated. He just went up against one of the most imposing, nasty and aggressive CB pairings in the league, and left with a lot of credit. He held the ball up well on occasions, never hid, and actually won the majority of the arial battles. A very impressive display despite lacking that final bit of quality needed for him to score. Impressive performance from him for me.

We're certainly a team on form. Loving this! The games can't come soon enough!

Dr Singh :bow:

[Power n Glory]

There was me thinking Arteta and Ramsey playing together was the reason we got blitzed at home to Bayern Munich, no protection in front of the back four and no cohesiveness in midfield....playing them together for me was a disaster....because even when we had a winning run with them in midfield towards the back end of last season the performances were dreadful...struggling to beat QPR, Fulham etc
Then again if Ramsey wasn't scoring goals i'd be happy for neither of them to play, and have a three man midfield consisting of three of the four of Ozil, Wilshere, Cazorla and Flamini.

Arteta, Ramsey and Wilshere have struggled in the midfield and I'm really not of fan of that combo. You're right about the lack of cohesion and protection to the back four. I think Ramsey and Wilshere hold on to the ball for too long, play too many high risk passes and also wonder all over the pitch too much. Arteta lacks mobility and can't cover that much ground.

When we have more players back it will be interesting to see what happens. I don't think Ramsey and Wilshere work well together at all. It's one or the other. We have plenty of options to play with once we have more players back.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Why do you think the Flamini and Ramsey combo isn't working? It's not as if Flamini ventures that far up field and then when you look at the goals Ramsey is scoring.....he's moving further up field even more. Towards the end of last season he started getting games down the centre again but when we were desperate for points. He was more defensive minded then or that was the call of the day because had to tighten up at the back. Also worth pointing out that we had Rosicky. He doesn't float about from flank to flank as much as Ozil does or Jack for that matter.

I didn't say it isn't working as such but I think Arteta will work better and give the midfield a better shape. You are right about Ramsey's role being different which is why I should have cited Arteta's individual qualities.

[GP]

Nah man, Arteta is pointless, remember?

:rolleyes:

He's vital and we've missed him.

[Power n Glory]

I didn't say it isn't working as such but I think Arteta will work better and give the midfield a better shape. You are right about Ramsey's role being different which is why I should have cited Arteta's individual qualities.

But why would he give us better shape? What would he do that Flamini isn't already doing or what would he do better?

[Dr Singh]

I think it just depends on a game to game basis.

It's nice to know our squad has about 18 players who can slot in and out, with no great reduction in quality. We have the strongest squad we've had in nearly a decade.

[Munchies]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVsTCSyKv_c&feature=c4-overview&list=UU-OM4pczHTNZnakuq9omJ1Q

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:lol:



those ratings and observations are off the mark. Giroud had a stinker in the second half - fucked up so many counter opportunities when Stoke held a higher line. Defence was dodgy all the way through. Wilshere was decent, creating a few opportunities, particularly in playing Giroud through and Ozil in the second. Also made some good runs - one in particular that Giroud could've easily played him through on goal in the second half but messed up the header. Flamini was ok but they were allowed too much space in the centre. We definitely missed Theo but Gnabry had a good half until he was subbed. Hope he's ok to return next week.

Wasn't a good performance. Everyone was quite sloppy again. Some players definitely need a game off to recover. Quite clear to see our midfield apart from Ramsey are not fit enough atm to handle 2 games a week for 6-7 weeks in a row.

How was Flamini only 'okay' yet he was given MOTM?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AWyLG7i2Zo


^That performance is as good as you'll see from an Arsenal player this season.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

But why would he give us better shape? What would he do that Flamini isn't already doing or what would he do better?

Exactly.

All the video clips of Flamini so far this season have shown him being very effective.

In today's game the defence passed him the ball a number of times and the opposition put him under pressure straight away, yet he was able to stay composed and distribute the ball forwards. Arteta doesn't do that. The fact Flamini is calm under pressure is important for any DM as it helps link up play easily.

On top of that, he gets stuck in and throws himself about, something Arteta doesn't do once again.

Instant upgrade imo. Top player.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Has the site been hacked again?

[Munchies]

Has the site been hacked again?

Yes :doh:

You can navigate round with the box at the bottom though

[GP]

Cripps :doh:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

That clip supports the fact Flamini had a decent game but to me it mostly highlights our collective defensive strategy which is to outnumber our opponents, close the space down and to win the 2nd/3rd ball even if not the 1st ball by getting bodies in key areas. In most of those instances Flamini is being backed up by a few team mates closing space down or the other opponents around Flamini down. The fact he has a little bit of nasty in him is not really why he stood out or did well in this game. He didn't need his Freddy Kruger / ski mask to scare the kids in this showing.

There were times in which Flamini passed out well under pressure(even from poor passes from his team mates) and times in which he just hoofed it away when he could have picked out a pass. Arteta's use of the ball is far superior if we are being honest with ourselves. Flamini didn't need to throw his weight around nor did he actually do so against Stoke. He stood firm and was charged with withstanding the belated fouls/kicks after releasing the ball that inevitably came from Stoke players and keeping positionally disciplined. He did that very well today and credit to him.

I don't think that he is proven he is more valuable to us than Arteta is just yet. To my mind the perfect example of Flamini's real use is his cameo against Spurs. He came on at a time where we were up and we needed a little edge to put a little bit of doubt back in the minds of Spurs players. We needed to let them know that they were not going to get back into it easy if at all and Flamini sure did let them know that with blood and guts. Even then he walked a fine line and might have been sent off with a few other refs, but he put the Spurs midfield in their places a little.

[Dennis Bendtner]

But why would he give us better shape? What would he do that Flamini isn't already doing or what would he do better?

I think he covers space in front of the defence more efficiently and is a much better passer. The defence looks more comfortable with him there. They both have their merits - Flamini was a very good transfer and better than the mugs we could have paid £20m for.

[Letters]

Good result. Saw the highlights this morning.

Nice to see we have someone who can deliver a set piece, a skill I personally believe all professional footballers should have but lamentably few actually seem to. You can see why Özil gets so many assists, he has such an awareness of where team-mates are and the pace on his passes is perfect. Awlsome player.

[Power n Glory]

I think he covers space in front of the defence more efficiently and is a much better passer. The defence looks more comfortable with him there. They both have their merits - Flamini was a very good transfer and better than the mugs we could have paid £20m for.

That’s a bit subjective. Why do you think the defence look more comfortable with Arteta? It’s not as if teams have been hammering away at us and we’re seeing loads of shaky moments at the back and we’re being pulled all over the shop.

It’s also worth keeping an eye on how often Arteta looks to collect the ball from the defence and is willing to receive a pass under pressure.

[Power n Glory]

That clip supports the fact Flamini had a decent game but to me it mostly highlights our collective defensive strategy which is to outnumber our opponents, close the space down and to win the 2nd/3rd ball even if not the 1st ball by getting bodies in key areas. In most of those instances Flamini is being backed up by a few team mates closing space down or the other opponents around Flamini down. The fact he has a little bit of nasty in him is not really why he stood out or did well in this game. He didn't need his Freddy Kruger / ski mask to scare the kids in this showing.

There were times in which Flamini passed out well under pressure(even from poor passes from his team mates) and times in which he just hoofed it away when he could have picked out a pass. Arteta's use of the ball is far superior if we are being honest with ourselves. Flamini didn't need to throw his weight around nor did he actually do so against Stoke. He stood firm and was charged with withstanding the belated fouls/kicks after releasing the ball that inevitably came from Stoke players and keeping positionally disciplined. He did that very well today and credit to him.

I don't think that he is proven he is more valuable to us than Arteta is just yet. To my mind the perfect example of Flamini's real use is his cameo against Spurs. He came on at a time where we were up and we needed a little edge to put a little bit of doubt back in the minds of Spurs players. We needed to let them know that they were not going to get back into it easy if at all and Flamini sure did let them know that with blood and guts. Even then he walked a fine line and might have been sent off with a few other refs, but he put the Spurs midfield in their places a little.

I don’t think we’ve seen a great deal of passing range from Arteta. Not consistently anyway. I wouldn’t go as far as saying it’s superior because we struggle to keep the ball when he’s in the team as well. I’d like to see how he plays next to Flamini to be honest. We may see a bit more of what he can do. It's good that we have more options in the middle. It's been broken for a while now.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

I don’t think we’ve seen a great deal of passing range from Arteta. Not consistently anyway. I wouldn’t go as far as saying it’s superior because we struggle to keep the ball when he’s in the team as well. I’d like to see how he plays next to Flamini to be honest. We may see a bit more of what he can do. It's good that we have more options in the middle. It's been broken for a while now.

I agree. It's good we're actually able to have these conversations about who to pick ahead of who. And it's weird because every thread on GW over the past few years has always degenerated into the poor transfer window gone by and how it hindered us on that particular match day. For the first time in years we have depth and the manager is facing a dilemma as to which players to pick. It's a great dilemma for Wenger.

Having two different DM's like Arteta and Flamini is probably good. I just hope he's able to utilise them effectively so we don't end up playing Arteta in a game where Flamini would clearly be more effective.

[hobson's choice]

I like this team, but I do fear for us in the CL, I can see us being taken apart by a team with a good attack. The midfield play still bothers me, they have long spells where they can't keep the ball, and for most of that second half N'zonzi dominated the middle.

[torontogooner]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BUxL6McCAAAjluN.jpg

No such celebration, he was scratching or picking at his nostril.

[footloose, the wanderer]

And that's something he can pass on to the young guns, almost right away

[Özil's Panoramic View]

http://arseblog.com/2013/09/arsenal-3-1-stoke-ozil-steals-the-show-as-ramsey-scores-yet-again/

"....Stoke are, for now, still limited to one type of game, and telling them to play expansive, passing football is like trying explain the merits of a piece of art to a dog: hard work."

:haha:

Arseblog. :bow:

[AKBapologist]

wallcot out for a month....

[fakeyank]

wallcot out for a month....

Wheres this from? :upset:

[AKBapologist]

it was on the mirror, but the article has disappeared.

[Marc Overmars]

Nothing has been confirmed yet but Wenget basically said he has no idea on the extent of the injury.

The curse is well and truly back, just when we start to look #decent again. Typical.

[Syn]

it was on the mirror, but the article has disappeared.

No, it was never published. And it never said a month, you just made that up. It's 2 weeks.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenals-injured-theo-walcott-could-2296305

[LDG]

Wenger has been quoted as saying he's unsure what the cause of his injury is and nobody can say how long it will keep him out.

[AKBapologist]

fair enough, needs a rest tbh and would have been dropped if carzola was fit.

[GP]

Time for the Bendt-meister General.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I don’t think we’ve seen a great deal of passing range from Arteta. Not consistently anyway. I wouldn’t go as far as saying it’s superior because we struggle to keep the ball when he’s in the team as well. I’d like to see how he plays next to Flamini to be honest. We may see a bit more of what he can do. It's good that we have more options in the middle. It's been broken for a while now.

I was talking about his short passing but incidentally I think his general passing range is better too. I think Arteta is probably our best player at maintaining and setting the rhythm of passing in a midfield whilst being equally as positionally disciplined, a little less rash whilst still happy to make a cynical foul when needed. It's not always about how far a player passes it or how well he passes it but also about his choice of pass. Because our midfielders stay close together there is often 2/3 5-10 yard passing options and sometimes the trick is to pick the right one in order to mount a potential attack from. Sometimes Arteta will receive the ball on his right side let it run through his leg and play a short pass which is not necessarily an obvious pass to make but one where a passage of play opens up in the centre for an attack. I think Arteta is much better at seeing and playing that kind of pass from deep than anyone else who plays deep.

I'm at pains to use Cesc as an example here but that is what Cesc was exceptional at. Arteta is not in Cesc's class but he does have that bit of nous to be able to control the passage of play with a little more finesse than most.

Like anyone I'm glad with have 2 different options and I'd rather only see Flamini play with Arteta on one off occasions if it is needed rather than seeing it a lot.

[Power n Glory]

I was talking about his short passing but incidentally I think his general passing range is better too. I think Arteta is probably our best player at maintaining and setting the rhythm of passing in a midfield whilst being equally as positionally disciplined, a little less rash whilst still happy to make a cynical foul when needed. It's not always about how far a player passes it or how well he passes it but also about his choice of pass. Because our midfielders stay close together there is often 2/3 5-10 yard passing options and sometimes the trick is to pick the right one in order to mount a potential attack from. Sometimes Arteta will receive the ball on his right side let it run through his leg and play a short pass which is not necessarily an obvious pass to make but one where a passage of play opens up in the centre for an attack. I think Arteta is much better at seeing and playing that kind of pass from deep than anyone else who plays deep.

I'm at pains to use Cesc as an example here but that is what Cesc was exceptional at. Arteta is not in Cesc's class but he does have that bit of nous to be able to control the passage of play with a little more finesse than most.

Like anyone I'm glad with have 2 different options and I'd rather only see Flamini play with Arteta on one off occasions if it is needed rather than seeing it a lot.

I disagree with a lot of that. Rosicky is our best passer in the squad when it comes to controlling the tempo. Before he receives the ball he knows who he's passing to and where he's moving. I've seen Arteta on too many occasions pass the ball back into a tight space when he was plenty of time to turn and spread the ball. Because of his past rep at Everton, I've been disappointed with Arteta.

If Rosicky or Diaby could stay fit we'd get that old free flowing football back. There presence would have a massive impact on the rest of the players and the speed of our game. With or without Arteta, there isn't much of a difference to the way we move the ball. It's still slow and labored. That's not all his fault because Ramsey and Wilshere aren't much help either.

[Dr Singh]

I think I'd have to agree with Blink. Arteta is our key man at dictating the tempo of a match. He slows it down when necessary, plays more direct when necessary, and always exerts his authoritatively calming presence on the midfield.

Rosicky is very different and offers another skill. He dramatically accelerates our play and can raise the tempo in ways others can't. He buzzes around and is quick over 10 yards. He looks to make things happen. As a result we may be more direct, but we may also just lose the ball.

In terms of a monotonous metronomic tempo setter, Arteta is our man.

[Power n Glory]

That slow pace isn't good for us and especially not when we're a 0-0 or a 1 goal up. It's the playing with the hand brake on. :lol:

That shouldn't be a part of our game plan and seems very odd for Wenger to want that when he's always been about quick and sharp passing. When he refers to being patient and not rushing, I think he means composure in front of goal and not playing a load of high risk passes all the time.

[I am invisible]

We must be the only team in the world where neither our captain or vice-captain are guaranteed a place in the side...

[I am invisible]

I was talking about his short passing but incidentally I think his general passing range is better too. I think Arteta is probably our best player at maintaining and setting the rhythm of passing in a midfield whilst being equally as positionally disciplined, a little less rash whilst still happy to make a cynical foul when needed. It's not always about how far a player passes it or how well he passes it but also about his choice of pass. Because our midfielders stay close together there is often 2/3 5-10 yard passing options and sometimes the trick is to pick the right one in order to mount a potential attack from. Sometimes Arteta will receive the ball on his right side let it run through his leg and play a short pass which is not necessarily an obvious pass to make but one where a passage of play opens up in the centre for an attack. I think Arteta is much better at seeing and playing that kind of pass from deep than anyone else who plays deep.

I'm at pains to use Cesc as an example here but that is what Cesc was exceptional at. Arteta is not in Cesc's class but he does have that bit of nous to be able to control the passage of play with a little more finesse than most.

Like anyone I'm glad with have 2 different options and I'd rather only see Flamini play with Arteta on one off occasions if it is needed rather than seeing it a lot.


I disagree with a lot of that. Rosicky is our best passer in the squad when it comes to controlling the tempo. Before he receives the ball he knows who he's passing to and where he's moving. I've seen Arteta on too many occasions pass the ball back into a tight space when he was plenty of time to turn and spread the ball. Because of his past rep at Everton, I've been disappointed with Arteta.

If Rosicky or Diaby could stay fit we'd get that old free flowing football back. There presence would have a massive impact on the rest of the players and the speed of our game. With or without Arteta, there isn't much of a difference to the way we move the ball. It's still slow and labored. That's not all his fault because Ramsey and Wilshere aren't much help either.

I'm not sure anyone gives us the complete package in those deeper midfield roles, but what we do have is a good set of modular options thet we can pick and choose according to the situation - if you want passing + high-energy, for example, then Rosicky is probably your man, but if you want passing + positional discipline / organisation then you'd maybe go with Arteta? Or if you want high-energy + positional discipline / organisation, but not so much passing, then go with Flamini. Obviously that's just a tiny selection of the traits we'd be looking at in each player, but you get the point...

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I disagree with a lot of that. Rosicky is our best passer in the squad when it comes to controlling the tempo. Before he receives the ball he knows who he's passing to and where he's moving. I've seen Arteta on too many occasions pass the ball back into a tight space when he was plenty of time to turn and spread the ball. Because of his past rep at Everton, I've been disappointed with Arteta.

If Rosicky or Diaby could stay fit we'd get that old free flowing football back. There presence would have a massive impact on the rest of the players and the speed of our game. With or without Arteta, there isn't much of a difference to the way we move the ball. It's still slow and labored. That's not all his fault because Ramsey and Wilshere aren't much help either.

I don't agree but clearly we going to need to agree to disagree,lol.

Rosicky for me (although I don't really count him as a team regular who can be relied upon) is the best player in the squad at accelerating the play, not necessarily dictating it in general. One might say I am splitting hairs but in my mind there is an important distinction to be made. Gerrard is also very good at speeding the play up but he is not nearly as good at taking it down a notch or switching it up. That said Rosicky is a more cultured player than Gerrard.

I think there are numerous occasions when our passing did not look coherent when Arteta was out of the team since he has been here imo and before Wilshere or Ramsey made the strides they did, Arteta's absence was the most sorely felt of our midfielder's. We have learnt to deal better with his absence because we have centralised and focused our defensive strategy, particularly in this calender year, on collectively hustling and harrying the opponents quickly.

I've even heard quotes which support that strategy from Rosicky who has spoke about our strategy in winning the ball back high up the pitch within several seconds, by getting as many bodies in the necessary areas as possible.

I don't see much argument for Diaby enhancing the free flow of our football and I was one of his few remaining fans on AHFC. He holds on to the ball too long and fails to release it when he should. That in itself nullified potential counter attacks and attacks although I have said many times that with time in the team he would iron that tendency out and hone his skills which he has seldom had a chance to do.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I am for a solution that fits the circumstances but there will be one player that is used more than the other as any manager does not want to perpetually tinker and rotate. I just happen to think that in an ideal world, Arteta would play more games than Flamini does.

[Dein-machine]

Arteta was a panic buy as a good Everton player. He only caught the eye at Everton as a poor man's Fabregas but Wumger has turned him into a modern day Ray Wilkins. You could teach a monkey to make 100 sideways passes of 10 yards in a game.
He is not what we need for the future, he is too slow in all aspects of the way we play & if people suggest he is a DM, please have a look at his tackling - its woeful & almost always end up giving away a free-kick in dangerous areas.
He did OK in a young, poor midfield last year but now that Rambo's found some bollocks, Jack's got undoubted quality & we have the beautiful sound of Cazorla & Ozil ( orgasmic ) - he's destined for the bench.

[Power n Glory]

I don't agree but clearly we going to need to agree to disagree,lol.

Rosicky for me (although I don't really count him as a team regular who can be relied upon) is the best player in the squad at accelerating the play, not necessarily dictating it in general. One might say I am splitting hairs but in my mind there is an important distinction to be made. Gerrard is also very good at speeding the play up but he is not nearly as good at taking it down a notch or switching it up. That said Rosicky is a more cultured player than Gerrard.

I think there are numerous occasions when our passing did not look coherent when Arteta was out of the team since he has been here imo and before Wilshere or Ramsey made the strides they did, Arteta's absence was the most sorely felt of our midfielder's. We have learnt to deal better with his absence because we have centralised and focused our defensive strategy, particularly in this calender year, on collectively hustling and harrying the opponents quickly.

I've even heard quotes which support that strategy from Rosicky who has spoke about our strategy in winning the ball back high up the pitch within several seconds, by getting as many bodies in the necessary areas as possible.

I don't see much argument for Diaby enhancing the free flow of our football and I was one of his few remaining fans on AHFC. He holds on to the ball too long and fails to release it when he should. That in itself nullified potential counter attacks and attacks although I have said many times that with time in the team he would iron that tendency out and hone his skills which he has seldom had a chance to do.


Diaby has bad habits but Wilshere and Ramsey are just as guilty. The Liverpool game was a reminder of his potential. He’s had the odd few games like that for France and when paired with Song in middle some years back. His fitness is the only issue for me. He’d have been perfect otherwise and just what we need.

There is probably too much of an emphasis on Arteta. His slow and cautious pace is one thing but I don’t the issue is resolved without him in the team, as seem this season. I’d like to see different combinations where we don’t have both Jack and Ramsey in the squad. A combination of Flamini/Arteta, Rosicky and Ozil would be dangerous.

[I am invisible]

Unfortunately the Diaby fitness issue is kind of a big one. I feel as sorry for him as the next guy for how his career has panned out, but we need to face facts here - he's never going to be an option that we can consistently count on, and he certainly isn't someone we should be thinking about building a team around. That's just asking for trouble...

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Arteta was a panic buy as a good Everton player. He only caught the eye at Everton as a poor man's Fabregas but Wumger has turned him into a modern day Ray Wilkins. You could teach a monkey to make 100 sideways passes of 10 yards in a game.
He is not what we need for the future, he is too slow in all aspects of the way we play & if people suggest he is a DM, please have a look at his tackling - its woeful & almost always end up giving away a free-kick in dangerous areas.
He did OK in a young, poor midfield last year but now that Rambo's found some bollocks, Jack's got undoubted quality & we have the beautiful sound of Cazorla & Ozil ( orgasmic ) - he's destined for the bench.

:gp:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Diaby has bad habits but Wilshere and Ramsey are just as guilty. The Liverpool game was a reminder of his potential. He’s had the odd few games like that for France and when paired with Song in middle some years back. His fitness is the only issue for me. He’d have been perfect otherwise and just what we need.

There is probably too much of an emphasis on Arteta. His slow and cautious pace is one thing but I don’t the issue is resolved without him in the team, as seem this season. I’d like to see different combinations where we don’t have both Jack and Ramsey in the squad. A combination of Flamini/Arteta, Rosicky and Ozil would be dangerous.

I don't see how Wilshere or Ramsey are anywhere near as guilty of holding on to the ball, particularly Ramsey who has been the form player of the league so far. Maybe because Ramsey and Wilshere have played 100 times for Arsenal and you have just seen more of them than Diaby. Diaby is also 27 now so should be assessed differently to our younger two anyway. This is the age for him when childish mistakes should be behind him as a prominent player (ha ha I know) for a club like Arsenal. Diaby didn't show the link up play that Jack did consistently enough when he was fit or the industry, work rate and goals that Ramsey is now either.

Our last two games have not been brimming with the free and flowing, quick tippy tappy football you are alluding to. Maybe the euphoria from winning and being top of the league have masked that fact but the win against Stoke was anything but. We played it quicker on the counter against Spurs but that was way before Flamini had even come on to the pitch so whilst I can't credit Arteta with that it also wasn't exactly down to Flamini either.

And by the way people. One might argue Ozil was a panic buy, even if the greatest panic buy of all time. A world class player but let's not forget that he was neither a part of any summer 'plan' or done in anything like an expedient time frame for the blood pressure of Arsenal fans....

Mertesacker was a panic buy as was Arteta, but they both have proven their use to the squad. Even Benayoun was pivotal in securing 4th place that year.

[hobson's choice]

I don't understand what games some of you are watching, cause the over praise for Ramsey and Wilshere is getting a bit upsurd now.

Yes Ramsey is scoring goals, but lets not gloss over the fact, he still has a lot of work to do, to be a really good Central Midfielder on a consistent level, same goes for Wilshere, minus the goal part. When is the last time, we've seen an Arsenal midfield concede as much possession as this bunch does, on a game to game basis. The midfield play has not looked fluid, sharp, and crisp at all. They still got ways to go, and to me Jack in particular hasn't prove that he deserve to start, when everyone is fit.

I'm all for the team, and what not, but lets not ignore the problems, that are still there.

[Marc Overmars]

Theo out for a few weeks, likely to be back after the international break.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/theo-set-for-minor-abdominal-procedure

[Power n Glory]

I don't see how Wilshere or Ramsey are anywhere near as guilty of holding on to the ball, particularly Ramsey who has been the form player of the league so far. Maybe because Ramsey and Wilshere have played 100 times for Arsenal and you have just seen more of them than Diaby. Diaby is also 27 now so should be assessed differently to our younger two anyway. This is the age for him when childish mistakes should be behind him as a prominent player (ha ha I know) for a club like Arsenal. Diaby didn't show the link up play that Jack did consistently enough when he was fit or the industry, work rate and goals that Ramsey is now either.

Our last two games have not been brimming with the free and flowing, quick tippy tappy football you are alluding to. Maybe the euphoria from winning and being top of the league have masked that fact but the win against Stoke was anything but. We played it quicker on the counter against Spurs but that was way before Flamini had even come on to the pitch so whilst I can't credit Arteta with that it also wasn't exactly down to Flamini either.

And by the way people. One might argue Ozil was a panic buy, even if the greatest panic buy of all time. A world class player but let's not forget that he was neither a part of any summer 'plan' or done in anything like an expedient time frame for the blood pressure of Arsenal fans....

Mertesacker was a panic buy as was Arteta, but they both have proven their use to the squad. Even Benayoun was pivotal in securing 4th place that year.

Have you not seen the amount of times Wilshere has ran himself into trouble or have you forgotten already how long it's taken Ramsey to get to this level? The amount of touches he'd take to only play a pointless pass or give it away?

Wilshere and Ramsey have been able to get over their injuries but Diaby hasn't. Experience and time is what irons out those sort of problems. If your always picking up injuries you won't have the chance. Imagine what Ramsey would be like if he'd picked up another injury last season and sat out the whole summer.

[Power n Glory]

I don't understand what games some of you are watching, cause the over praise for Ramsey and Wilshere is getting a bit upsurd now.

Yes Ramsey is scoring goals, but lets not gloss over the fact, he still has a lot of work to do, to be a really good Central Midfielder on a consistent level, same goes for Wilshere, minus the goal part. When is the last time, we've seen an Arsenal midfield concede as much possession as this bunch does, on a game to game basis. The midfield play has not looked fluid, sharp, and crisp at all. They still got ways to go, and to me Jack in particular hasn't prove that he deserve to start, when everyone is fit.

I'm all for the team, and what not, but lets not ignore the problems, that are still there.

:gp:

[GP]

Arteta was a panic buy as a good Everton player. He only caught the eye at Everton as a poor man's Fabregas but Wumger has turned him into a modern day Ray Wilkins. You could teach a monkey to make 100 sideways passes of 10 yards in a game.
He is not what we need for the future, he is too slow in all aspects of the way we play & if people suggest he is a DM, please have a look at his tackling - its woeful & almost always end up giving away a free-kick in dangerous areas.
He did OK in a young, poor midfield last year but now that Rambo's found some bollocks, Jack's got undoubted quality & we have the beautiful sound of Cazorla & Ozil ( orgasmic ) - he's destined for the bench.

http://i.imgur.com/EgqnRyp.gif

[I am invisible]

To be honest, I think we're just going to have to make our peace with conceding a bit more possession this season - that's just the nature of the beast when you're playing counter-attacking football. You want to create a situation where you're stretching your opponent's lines by coaxing them into your half, and then hitting them quickly while the space is there to exploit, and you can't really do that without a) letting you're opponent's having the ball (so they can actually mount an attack for you to counter), and b) playing quicker, more adventurous, forward passes that carry a greater risk of being misplaced or intercepted.

Just my opinion, but I actually prefer to see us playing this kind of fast, adventurous, slightly riskier football, than the high-possession, high-pressing game that we've played for the last few years, with it's slow build-up and careful probing around packed areas? For all the possession we've enjoyed, it's actually felt quite inefficient, and more than a little... safe? And it's quite often left us an easy target for other counter-attacking sides ourselves (how many times did Man U and Chelsea used to pick us off with ease when we were playing all that tippy-tappy football?)...

[Marc Overmars]

It's still possible to be effective even if you don't dominate possession, you just have to defend better.

To me it looks like we're more comfortable without the ball now, we don't see the same panic or lethargic attitude anymore when we don't have it.

[I am invisible]

It's still possible to be effective even if you don't dominate possession, you just have to defend better.

To me it looks like we're more comfortable without the ball now, we don't see the same panic or lethargic attitude anymore when we don't have it.

:good:

It looks like we've gone back to way we were playing in '97/'98 with Wenger's first title-winning side, and I think that suits this current group well...

[Power n Glory]

We look miles away from the 97/98 squad. Our counter attacks are pretty tame and need work. We're unable to dominate possession because of bad passing and decisions these days. I wouldn't say it's a strategy planned but something born out of circumstance.

[AKBapologist]

Bad passing happens on bad pitches or when our energy levels drop.

Our counter attacking is ok, but no one really plays a high line against us, and with Giroud as the linch pin, there's really a limit to what you can do.

Our old school breaks usually had a leggy CF or winger take the ball all the way to the box, at the moment, we don't really have any wingers...

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[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Have you not seen the amount of times Wilshere has ran himself into trouble or have you forgotten already how long it's taken Ramsey to get to this level? The amount of touches he'd take to only play a pointless pass or give it away?

Wilshere and Ramsey have been able to get over their injuries but Diaby hasn't. Experience and time is what irons out those sort of problems. If your always picking up injuries you won't have the chance. Imagine what Ramsey would be like if he'd picked up another injury last season and sat out the whole summer.

Yes I have. It is a feature of Wilshere's game whilst struggling for form & fitness..... and similarly so with Ramsey.

Diaby's ability on the other hand, to hang on to the ball too long is a permanent fixture in his makeup and characteristics as a player. That is the difference. The fact that both Jack and Ramsey have done so when they weren't playing well is not testimony to evidence that it is inherently a flaw of their game that needed ironing out and I don't certainly remember it being so over the course of their careers here.

Just as when I saw Cesc miss place a pass when he was 16/17 here I did not take it to be a characteristic of his even if he did it on the odd occasion when he was not playing well. It just so happens, Cesc had fewer off days than most.

Diaby seldom strung together several or even 3/4 back to back stellar performances when he was fit either though he is as talented as anyone. Whatever the reason for that is, does not mean we should be in denial of things like that and Diaby should be accepted for what he is now. A wild card who's inclusion in the squad IF he should ever get over his injuries will be a bonus. Then he will rightfully have quite a number of talented players to contend with and will be forced to show the sort of consistency that he has seldom ever shown (for whatever reasons).

[Static]

It was signalling the next celeb's last breath.
:lol:

[I am invisible]

Bad passing happens on bad pitches or when our energy levels drop.

Our counter attacking is ok, but no one really plays a high line against us, and with Giroud as the linch pin, there's really a limit to what you can do.

Our old school breaks usually had a leggy CF or winger take the ball all the way to the box, at the moment, we don't really have any wingers...

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It's not just us - no one really plays a high line against anyone any more. The offside laws are just too much of an ambiguous mess to make playing the offside trap a sane strategy. What you tend to see these days is defences that never really stray more than about 10 metres from their respective 18 yard boxes (unless you're sending the occasional fullback up in support of an attack), and, instead of following the old Arrigo Sacchi mantra of never having more than 25 yards between your front and back lines at any given time, we now have more of an accordion effect, where the defence is anchored, and your other lines expand and contract when you attack and defend. All this means that the space is now found in the middle of the park instead of behind high defensive lines, and this is why most sides have now moved away from 442, and sacrificed a second striker for the sake of an extra central midfielder. I suspect it's also why we've seen a gradual move away from pacey / leggy strikers like Henry, and towards powerful target-men who can hold their own as a lone man, and/or one-touch box-strikers who can flash in a goal in packed penalty areas?

Counter-attacking has obviously had to adapt to this too - the runners are now in the middle of the park, looking to gain ground when those lines get stretched, and not up front, with strikers looking to race clear from the halfway line. It still works in a slightly different way though - at it's core, it's still just about attacking space, and catching your opponent on the back foot when they've over-committed. It's just the space that's changed.


We look miles away from the 97/98 squad. Our counter attacks are pretty tame and need work. We're unable to dominate possession because of bad passing and decisions these days. I wouldn't say it's a strategy planned but something born out of circumstance.

Look, I'm not making a direct, like-for-like comparison here, or suggesting that this group are in any way the finished article - it's more of a general observation about what it looks like we're trying to do with them. That dominant, high-possession, intricate-passing game was a hallmark of later Arsenal sides under Wenger - IMO, the 97-98 side was more about defending deep, and in numbers, being comfortable with sitting back and waiting for the opposition to make the first move, and then picking them off quickly, with 3 or 4 precise passes, when they were over-committed. If you ask me, then that's what I think we're (currently) aiming for with this group - instead of getting ahead of ourselves, and immediately trying to get these guys to play like the Invincibles, I think we've aimed for one step further back, and are getting them comfortable with that slightly simpler, more pragmatic style of play first? Again, I'm not suggesting that they've mastered it yet - I'm just saying that I think that's what we're currently aiming for, and that I think it's a good fit for this group, and should be an achievable target for them...

[Dein-machine]

It's not just us - no one really plays a high line against anyone any more. The offside laws are just too much of an ambiguous mess to make playing the offside trap a sane strategy. What you tend to see these days is defences that never really stray more than about 10 metres from their respective 18 yard boxes (unless you're sending the occasional fullback up in support of an attack), and, instead of following the old Arrigo Sacchi mantra of never having more than 25 yards between your front and back lines at any given time, we now have more of an accordion effect, where the defence is anchored, and your other lines expand and contract when you attack and defend. All this means that the space is now found in the middle of the park instead of behind high defensive lines, and this is why most sides have now moved away from 442, and sacrificed a second striker for the sake of an extra central midfielder. I suspect it's also why we've seen a gradual move away from pacey / leggy strikers like Henry, and towards powerful target-men who can hold their own as a lone man, and/or one-touch box-strikers who can flash in a goal in packed penalty areas?

Counter-attacking has obviously had to adapt to this too - the runners are now in the middle of the park, looking to gain ground when those lines get stretched, and not up front, with strikers looking to race clear from the halfway line. It still works in a slightly different way though - at it's core, it's still just about attacking space, and catching your opponent on the back foot when they've over-committed. It's just the space that's changed.



Look, I'm not making a direct, like-for-like comparison here, or suggesting that this group are in any way the finished article - it's more of a general observation about what it looks like we're trying to do with them. That dominant, high-possession, intricate-passing game was a hallmark of later Arsenal sides under Wenger - IMO, the 97-98 side was more about defending deep, and in numbers, being comfortable with sitting back and waiting for the opposition to make the first move, and then picking them off quickly, with 3 or 4 precise passes, when they were over-committed. If you ask me, then that's what I think we're (currently) aiming for with this group - instead of getting ahead of ourselves, and immediately trying to get these guys to play like the Invincibles, I think we've aimed for one step further back, and are getting them comfortable with that slightly simpler, more pragmatic style of play first? Again, I'm not suggesting that they've mastered it yet - I'm just saying that I think that's what we're currently aiming for, and that I think it's a good fit for this group, and should be an achievable target for them...

Good posting - can't really disagree with you as none of us are sure if Wumger has a master plan after realising that his other master plan hasn't worked for 8 years. However I hear people say about us or others trying to play like Barcelona or the Invicibles, if you try to do this with inferior players there will only ever be one outcome & we've had it for 8 years. If we want to play like the Invicibles we need to find a Henry & Bergkamp upfornt, we need to find a Viera in midfield. If we want to play like Barcelona we need the passing & ball retention qualities of Iniesta & Xavi aswell as the little matter of a Messi upfront. You cannot compete these days by buying a Sonogo & trying to turn him into an Henry - Jack, Arteta & Rambo are good footballers but they are not in the same universe when it comes to quality against the little Spaniards. Football changes, we don't even know how the Invincibles would fare in the current league against stronger Chelski & Man Shity teams, we don't know if Barca woud dominate the EPL especially on boggy, cold days in winter getting kicked 6 foot in the air at Stoke' but we need to follow the route of Dortmund who's training methods are now light years ahead of ours & will improve quality of players. If you add this to the ability to spend big money to add the necessary quality then we have an answer, but we should be trying to produce a new Arsenal team playing in a modern way that suits the players we have, not trying to imitate. As they say in the movies, a sequel is never quite as good as the original.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think the overall philosophy for our style has changed. We just don't have the players to dominate possession. If we played Ozil and Cazorla wide with the freedom to roam, Rosicky in the middle with Flamini and Arteta/Jack, I have feeling we'd see us playing a different brand of football. This is born out of circumstance we're just adapting to what we have. Besides how to defend, I don't think Wenger has told his squad how to attack.

[Dein-machine]

I don't think the overall philosophy for our style has changed. We just don't have the players to dominate possession. If we played Ozil and Cazorla wide with the freedom to roam, Rosicky in the middle with Flamini and Arteta/Jack, I have feeling we'd see us playing a different brand of football. This is born out of circumstance we're just adapting to what we have. Besides how to defend, I don't think Wenger has told his squad how to attack.

I agree but the weird thing is that in recent years you will find our possession especially at Emirates % wise is regularly far higher than in the Invicibles year. This is because the other teams have realised that its fine to let Arsenal have the ball 30-40 yards out because they will move it from side to side until someone decided on the killer ball. If that killer ball is crap or the touch is bad then all of our midfield are in a forward position & they can hit us with counter attack. It amazes me how opposing teams always seem to have men over when they're attacking us. The difference in past years is that using the same system we had better players ie Pires & Freddy playing passes to the likes of Henry & DB where the touch was rarely bad. Should the move break down we had the likes of Viera & Petit sensible enough to have held back. When you had the quality of Henry, DB, Freddy & Pires, there was less emphasis on others getting forward because we could score goals for fun with those guys. In recent years we've relied on RVP as our only goal threat which has meant a need to get as many others forward aswell. If we invest in quality upfront, we can defend better from midfield & be far harder to score against.