Napoli v Arsenal match reaction - let the bed wetting begin!

[Xhaka Can’t]

We're through!

[Letters]

FFS. We only finished 2nd in a group I didn't think we'd qualify from.
Wenger Out! :sulk:

[LDG]

Never in doubt.

[GP]

A 'stupid' manager with 'no tactical nouse' is top of the premier league and has qualified from the so-called 'group of death'

Some people are borderline retarded, I swear to god.

I'm going for a walk.

[LDG]

Shit. I've got the dentist tomorrow :(

[milla]

Agent Rafa :bow:

Wenger out, tactically clueless :coffee:

[Maestro]

i want barca in the next round

[Ollie the Optimist]

this season in the champions league has been great because we've played big teams. and won. i don't want the easy games. not that there are any, remember ajax beat barca, basel beat chelsea at home etc. i want the bayerns, the barcas, the madrids. magical nights those and if you asked those sides who they don't want in the draw. they'd answer us.

[fakeyank]

i want barca in the next round

Bendtner will get his chance at redemption :lol:

[Power n Glory]

No idea why Theo didn't come on or start if the plan was to play a defensive game so we could play on the break. Strong together some nice attacks in spells but had nobody to finish the moves.

Arteta is an idiot. He really should know better.

We finish second and have to do things the hard way again. We could draw Bayern, Real, Barca, PSG or Athletico!

Also, Henry is right, we go into the City game on a serious low whilst they are on a high. Great!

[Master Splinter]

All that hard work for nothing. Really poor from Wenger regarding the team selection and subs. Poor from the team in the second half. And an atrocious ref compounding it all by letting them get away with foul after foul and giving us nothing. I doubt we would have won anyway, but when a ref destroys any rhythm, it ruins the game from the first minute.

It's such a shame we threw a potentially comfortable draw away right at the end. Idiotic really.

At least we can laugh at Napoli the scrotes being out.

Only Koscielny, Flamini and Giroud played well tonight.

[Ollie the Optimist]

we went to united after beating dortmund and lost though so we've been on a serious high leading into a big game and failed before. we've bounced back well recently huge test now though. bring it

[Özim]

I want Schalke, Milan would be ok too.

[LDG]

If we had rotated and gone out people would complain we didn't go strong to get the job done.

This is the toughest group navigated very well.

Bed wetting at its finest.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Arteta is an idiot - but it would have been nice to have some consistency from the referee.

I don't mind that we finished second. It isn't as if we were/are going to win the CL.

[milla]

Pick your poison,

Barcelona
Real Madrid
Atlético Madrid
Paris Saint Germain
Bayern Munich
Borussia Dortmund

Doesn't matter who, it will be cracking. Personally I hope we get one of the Spanish team. :coffee:

[Globalgunner]

The only thing that's certain is that Wenger won't win the CL in any of our lifetimes, so 2 down 2 to go for cup opportunities

[fakeyank]

Pick your poison,

Barcelona
Real Madrid
Atlético Madrid
Paris Saint Germain
Bayern Munich
Borussia Dortmund

Doesn't matter who, it will be cracking. Personally I hope we get one of the Spanish team. :coffee:

We cannot get Dortmund right?

[-Xs-]

We'll get PSG

[Gooner23]

Glad to be through, no point in stressing over who we're going to face next. We looked in control until their 1st goal, a piece of quality from Higuin.

Only gripe is would have liked to have seen Theo up front for last 5-10 mins, when Giroud was clearly knackered. Would have latched on to that Ozil pass and given us a chance to equalise.

Also, that Arteta 2nd yellow was ridiculously harsh. Where do they get these chumps league refs from.

[milla]

We can if we go qualify further. :coffee:

[Maestro]

I worry we are not ruthless or direct enough, and I fear that will be our undoing eventually.

Done well so far this season, but can't help but see this scenario playing out. here's hoping not.

need some top quality pacy goalscorers, real assassins. that's the missing ingredient ...but hey we can dream

bring on barca

[Globalgunner]

Glad to be through, no point in stressing over who we're going to face next. We looked in control until their 1st goal, a piece of quality from Higuin.

Only gripe is would have liked to have seen Theo up front for last 5-10 mins, when Giroud was clearly knackered. Would have latched on to that Ozil pass and given us a chance to equalise.

Also, that Arteta 2nd yellow was ridiculously harsh. Where do they get these chumps league refs from.
Most are moulded out of the crap that comes out of Platinis arse

[Power n Glory]

:lol: Love Henry! He's not having it with these pundits.

[Marc Overmars]

Incredibly disappointing to finish 2nd after being in the driving seat but I guess this was always going to be a tight group.

Can't help but feel we're heading for another 2nd round exit but I'll worry about that in February. Meh.

[LDG]

Glad to be through, no point in stressing over who we're going to face next. We looked in control until their 1st goal, a piece of quality from Higuin.

Only gripe is would have liked to have seen Theo up front for last 5-10 mins, when Giroud was clearly knackered. Would have latched on to that Ozil pass and given us a chance to equalise.

Also, that Arteta 2nd yellow was ridiculously harsh. Where do they get these chumps league refs from.

I get it with Theo, but the ball was sticking to Giroud most of the game, and I guess him retaining the ball was seen as more important.

I thought Theo for cazorla when ramsey came on was the one, just to give the fullbacks something to worry about.

Meh.

We're through.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Bring em on.

I'd love to win every match, but I also want to see the top teams. I remenber the buzz going to see Real at Highbury and Barca at the Emirates. There is nothing like it.

[Ollie the Optimist]

have to admit, I'm not fussed about the champions league this season, i want the league and do believe we should focus on that but look at what effect the dortmund and munich wins had on this team. if we can another win like that going into the business part of the season who knows what we could do?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Incredibly disappointing to finish 2nd after being in the driving seat but I guess this was always going to be a tight group.

Can't help but feel we're heading for another 2nd round exit but I'll worry about that in February. Meh.

Everyone knew we had a nightmare last fixture as soon as the draw was made. What cost us first place in the group was the result against Dortmund at the Emirates.

[I am an entertainer, Fact]

I'm thinking more of the game on Saturday. Not a lot of rest, City have all their main players refreshed and raring to go and all our big hitters are knackered!

I don't fancy our chances much for that game.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I don't fancy our chances either, but we'll see.

We have put ourselves in a position where if we win the matches we're supposed to, we'll be thereor thereabouts.

[Power n Glory]

Arteta is an idiot - but it would have been nice to have some consistency from the referee.

I don't mind that we finished second. It isn't as if we were/are going to win the CL.

It just means we make life a little more difficult for ourselves. I suppose if we go out of the CL early we can focus on the league. But I'm worried about the City game now. Also, we were in control of that group and on top. Doesn't bode well that we dropped to second and cut it mighty fine for qualification. The team need to learn how to handle such pressure. Wenger's team selection really didn't help. Way too negative. I'm just thinking about the league and how we'll handle even more pressure.

[Dein-machine]

tonight proves that it doesn't really matter who we get - tactically he is out his depth.

[RomfordPele]

Poor, poor second half sitting back when we should have pushed on - and wenger set the tone with his substitutions. Jenkinson was being overloaded by their left back bombing forward time and time again. It was set up for Walcott to come on and push them back, or run through on the counter attack.

Glad we got through, but worried about impact on morale ahead of weekend. Mertesacker looked crestfallen after the game. So we go into it having suffered a depressing defeat, city go into having beaten bayern on their own patch. But hey, we're top of the league at the moment, so Wenger's a genius and totally beyond criticism right?

[Ollie the Optimist]

tonight proves that it doesn't really matter who we get - tactically he is out his depth.


:haha:


no

[Marc Overmars]

Everyone knew we had a nightmare last fixture as soon as the draw was made. What cost us first place in the group was the result against Dortmund at the Emirates.

Yeah the margins were very fine.

Just feel like banging my head against the wall, normally I'm not overly bothered about 1st or 2nd, but we haven't won a CL knockout tie in years, I just wanted us to have a potentially favourable draw to stand a better chance of getting that monkey off our backs.

Gah.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It just means we make life a little more difficult for ourselves. I suppose if we go out of the CL early we can focus on the league. But I'm worried about the City game now. Also, we were in control of that group and on top. Doesn't bode well that we dropped to second and cut it mighty fine for qualification. The team need to learn how to handle such pressure. Wenger's team selection really didn't help. Way too negative. I'm just thinking about the league and how we'll handle even more pressure.

I've always regarded anything gained against City as an unlikely plus.

But I've said it elsewhere - everyone reckoned the last tie in this group wasgoing to be a bitch of a game. When you look back on this campaign, what cost us first place was the result at the Emirates.

I'm happy with the qualification - yeah, I'd love the win, but until the 73rd minute (I opened my mouth in the 72nd) we were comfortable.

[milla]

I worry we are not ruthless or direct enough, and I fear that will be our undoing eventually.

Done well so far this season, but can't help but see this scenario playing out. here's hoping not.

need some top quality pacy goalscorers, real assassins. that's the missing ingredient ...but hey we can dream

bring on barca

We really need some pace from midfield. I thought we going to see a lot Gnabry his year but it looks like Wenger doesn't trust him yet.

You can bet your money we will not see Feo on the weekends, it will be Cazorla and Jack on the wings and we will be fucked. I will dread to watch Jack tracking Jesus Navas run from wide area. :coffee:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yeah the margins were very fine.

Just feel like banging my head against the wall, normally I'm not overly bothered about 1st or 2nd, but we haven't won a CL knockout tie in years, I just wanted us to have a potentially favourable draw to stand a better chance of getting that monkey off our backs.

Gah.

Well at least we don't face Drogba.

[Gooner23]

Yeah I don't think its bed wetting to be frustrated by the outcome. We should really have been good enough for at least a draw against an off-colour Napoli tonight.

[Globalgunner]

:haha:


no

He hasn't won it in 17 attempts. So I would say yes, he is clueless against top quality. It is easier to win the league than the CL. Unless you wind back to 2004 when only crap teams were left in the semis and we still couldn't get amongst them

[Ollie the Optimist]

He hasn't won it in 17 attempts. So I would say yes, he is clueless against top quality. It is easier to win the league than the CL. Unless you wind back to 2004 when only crap teams were left in the semis and we still couldn't get amongst them

easier to win the league? you what now? chelsea finished 6th when they won the champions league. doesn't get it right against the big teams? my mistake i thought we had beaten spurs, napoli, dortmund, liverpool and bayern this year.

[Özim]

I'm thinking more of the game on Saturday. Not a lot of rest, City have all their main players refreshed and raring to go and all our big hitters are knackered!

I don't fancy our chances much for that game.

We're into December and we're looking tired at the wrong time with Man City and Chelsea to play next.

[Özim]

easier to win the league? you what now? chelsea finished 6th when they won the champions league. doesn't get it right against the big teams? my mistake i thought we had beaten spurs, napoli, dortmund, liverpool and bayern this year.

He hasn't won the league in over 9 years.

[Power n Glory]

I've always regarded anything gained against City as an unlikely plus.

But I've said it elsewhere - everyone reckoned the last tie in this group wasgoing to be a bitch of a game. When you look back on this campaign, what cost us first place was the result at the Emirates.

I'm happy with the qualification - yeah, I'd love the win, but until the 73rd minute (I opened my mouth in the 72nd) we were comfortable.

Just listening to Henry and Gary....it's the fatigue that's a worry for City and going forward. We'll need to buy in January and Wenger will have to rethink his strategy if he's going to try and coast through a game. Arteta's sending off means players had to work twice as hard.....

I wouldn't say the game at the Emirates cost us. We had our necks out in front and looked in control of things. Oh well....

[Ollie the Optimist]

He hasn't won the league in over 9 years.

as you keep gleefully telling us. i find it fascinating how you have hardly been on here all season yet as soon as we draw a game you come back very quickly.

last trophy pelligrini won was also back in 2004. but you keep telling us that city are the best team and favourites for the title or is this another one of your arguments where you will contradict yourself completely?

[Özil's Panoramic View]

easier to win the league? you what now? chelsea finished 6th when they won the champions league. doesn't get it right against the big teams? my mistake i thought we had beaten spurs, napoli, dortmund, liverpool and bayern this year.

Ollie, spuds and Liverpool?

[Özim]

as you keep gleefully telling us. i find it fascinating how you have hardly been on here all season yet as soon as we draw a game you come back very quickly.

Yeah because your points are invalid as is often the case, your argument revolves around things that happened almost a decade ago.

Do you really? That's interesting :coffee:

[Darknight02]

Some perspective guys.

We have a massive game coming up on Saturday lunchtime with minimal time to prepare. Given that they had to essentially score 3 goals to go through, no matter what you'd say, we were playing at 50% and within ourselves with an eye on the game against City. This is even more true given that we have such a short recovery time in between this and the next game.

Look at Bayern last season in the 2nd leg. They were playing within themselves and nearly lost. It happens.

And I agree with those who say that winning or drawing Napoli doesn't give any confidence against Man City. The Dortmund example is a good game. Mind you I didn't think we played particularly well there either. We defended there well and stole a goal but did we play well? Hell no - perhaps not until the last ten minutes after we got the goal. But we couldn't have gone to United in any higher spirits and euphoria and in the first half, our players played as if they've never played together in their lives and paid for it in the first half.

The number one priority was to top the group and come out of that game without any injuries. And hopefully we've done that. It was a group that I had serious doubts of us being able to out of but we have.

In terms of coming second in the group, I think it means very little. Yes we draw some big teams but that's what the Champion's League is all about and as everyone has said we'll have to play them one time or another. If you ask me whether I'd prefer to go out to a crap team in the last 16 or a better one in the quarter finals, I'd say the latter. But regardless of where you go out, it'll hurt the same.

Of course recent history is against us no doubt. But this is a different animal of an Arsenal team. And let's not forget our best ever run in the CL came courtesy of having a difficult run with Real Madrid, Juventus and Villareal. Bring on the last 16 round. Best we can hope for is PSG. Worst we can hope for is Bayern but City showed that they are not unbeatable. And like someone else said, none of those big sides will fancy having to play us.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Ollie, spuds and Liverpool?


in terms of the context of the games. they were huge.

[Globalgunner]

easier to win the league? you what now? chelsea finished 6th when they won the champions league. doesn't get it right against the big teams? my mistake i thought we had beaten spurs, napoli, dortmund, liverpool and bayern this year.
He has won the league 3 times in 17 and the CL 0 in 17. So you tell me which is easier

[Ollie the Optimist]

He has won the league 3 times in 17 and the CL 0 in 17. So you tell me which is easier

di matteo won the champions league and finished 6th in the league. i think that answers your question

[Dein-machine]

when we play negatively we are asking players to play differently to what they are asked to do 80% of the time. We get beaten by a shit Man Utd side because we were negative, which will happen when we play City & Chelski. And we wonder why our recored against the big teams is poor? Our attacking play tonight was simply embarrasing against a poor Napoli defence. Attack is the best form of defence - we have been playing the best football in the league, why dont we let teams worry about us.

[Power n Glory]

easier to win the league? you what now? chelsea finished 6th when they won the champions league. doesn't get it right against the big teams? my mistake i thought we had beaten spurs, napoli, dortmund, liverpool and bayern this year.

Champs League isn't easy otherwise we'd have won it by now. There are some top clubs that haven't won that competition in ages. Look at Real, Juve...took Bayern a long time to win it again. You get the odd fluke results but it's difficult to win because you have to be in control of your emotions in the night and not bottle it.

[Özim]

di matteo won the champions league and finished 6th in the league. i think that answers your question

The CL is the holy grail for every top club whatever you say, you're Champions of Europe if you win it, not of your country so it's actually a bigger title.

Winning the league is special, winning the CL must be something else though.

[Letters]

Meaningless result as we still went through

:coffee:

[LDG]

Meaningless result as we still went through

:coffee:

:lol:

[Ollie the Optimist]

The CL is the holy grail for every top club whatever you say, you're Champions of Europe if you win it, not of your country so it's actually a bigger title.

Winning the league is special, winning the CL must be something else though.

id argue you the league is a bigger title as it proves once and for all that season you were the best. champions league is a cup competition, theres a lot of luck. huge title and incredible to win though but winning the league proves you are the best in your country, winning the champions league doesn't always prove you are the best in europe

[Özim]

id argue you the league is a bigger title as it proves once and for all that season you were the best. champions league is a cup competition, theres a lot of luck. huge title and incredible to win though but winning the league proves you are the best in your country, winning the champions league doesn't always prove you are the best in europe

Ask Real Madrid which one is more important, or even Barca.

The CL is the big one, all the top clubs want to win that one, winning the league is great but it's not as important as the CL. Most of the best teams in the world are in the CL, they're not all in the PL.

[Darknight02]

We really need some pace from midfield. I thought we going to see a lot Gnabry his year but it looks like Wenger doesn't trust him yet.

You can bet your money we will not see Feo on the weekends, it will be Cazorla and Jack on the wings and we will be fucked. I will dread to watch Jack tracking Jesus Navas run from wide area. :coffee:

This is my biggest concern after tonight. Wenger seems to have completely given up on having some pace on at least one of the flanks and decided we have to play with 5 central midfielders. This is concerning on so many levels. Because it makes us very one dimensional and having to be at the very top of our game in order to pass the ball through a midfield and defence and lastly it doesn't give us any outlet to relieve pressure. Furthermore it means that teams with pace on the flanks will absolutely crush us given the tendency of all our players to drift centrally and leave our fullbacks exposed. None of the teams we've played so far have had decent wide players barring Everton and they gave us a lot of trouble down the flanks as a result.

I shudder to think what would happen with Man City (Navas and Silva), Chelsea (Hazard and Schurle), Bayern (Robben and Ribery), Madrid (Ronaldo and Bale). We will get creamed in those circumstances.

The best team we have requires at least one wide player with pace - be it Theo or Gnabry or the Ox. I'm not sure Podolski has the pace to do this.

As you say, against Man City we will be well and truly screwed on the flanks. And you're right, he will not play Theo on the wing.

January can't come soon enough. We really don't have a plan B if Giroud isn't firing on all cylinders. He's fantastic at bringing our midfielders into play but as has been touched upon on countless occasions we desperately need a player to be able to get in front of Giroud and play off the shoulder of the last defender. Options are seriously slim in January but we've left ourselves terribly exposed by that. I can't think of who we could realistically aim to get. Perhaps that Belgian striker who seems to have pace to burn?

Biggest concern of all our players at the moment is Cazorla. Not sure what is up with him. But he's struggling to create and shoot. Very poor season so far. Needs to sort it out.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Ask Real Madrid which one is more important, or even Barca.

The CL is the big one, all the top clubs want to win that one, winning the league is great but it's not as important as the CL. Most of the best teams in the world are in the CL, they're not all in the PL.

you can win the champions league in theory by not playing a single big club. to win the league you have to play the big clubs in your country, it just so happens in ours there are more big clubs as such then in other leagues.

[Özim]

you can win the champions league in theory by not playing a single big club. to win the league you have to play the big clubs in your country, it just so happens in ours there are more big clubs as such then in other leagues.

So why have we never won it if it's easier, please explain, you can't get unlucky 17 years running.

CL is the ultimate club prize, there's no doubt about it, league is very prestigious but 2nd to that.

[Darknight02]

The CL is the holy grail for every top club whatever you say, you're Champions of Europe if you win it, not of your country so it's actually a bigger title.

Winning the league is special, winning the CL must be something else though.

At this point if you ask me what I want, of course I'd say CL because it is what we haven't won.

But the CL you can play awful and be the worst team and win it. And let's not kid ourselves, Chelsea are arguably the worst team to win the CL.

In which game did they outclass their opponents? They were minutes away from going out in the group stages and were outplayed and outclassed against every knockout opponent they came up against and managed to get one goal in each game due to one of the most powerful and effective strikers and won. Even the CL final was a robbery with Bayern hitting the post, having numerous chances and having missed a penalty.

The Premier League is a tournament of consistency. The champions who win the league are deserved winners as they've won it over a period of 38 games. And you can't fluke winning the Premier League.

Anyway, would love to win both this year.

Mind you our unbeaten season still takes the cake. Every team will win a league or the champion's league every year. How often does a team go unbeaten throughout a season in one of the top leagues. Truly a mark of consistency and quality.

[Syn]

Two absolutely stunning goals won it for them. A very tough place to go and get a result - they clearly put everything into this performance, summed up by Higuain (actually) crying at the final whistle.

Koscielny - what a defender. Glad to see Mertesacker sounding disgusted at the final whistle... he has a winner's mentality. Wasn't a fluent game by any means but Napoli were snapping away at every opportunity and it was difficult for the midfield. Thought we matched them physically.

But where they have a top striker, we do not. After a good opening few games, Giroud is not looking capable as a striker for a team with title ambitions. Don't want to be singling him out - Gibbs and the midfield were also off their game. In Giroud's case, he's obviously trying his best and he's a key player for us to compete physically. But while a few Bergkamp-esque touches in the first few games raised everyone's hopes, there's a reason why he can only do good things through one touch (and lately even that has been off); his lack of agility is a problem. Things are going well - and they can continue to go well, but surely the easiest position to improve on is upfront.

Hope the away support get back safe. Napoli fans seemed quite content at the final whistle - maybe feeling as we did when we nearly turned around the deficit against Milan and Bayern Munich...but with my immense street knowledge I would guess gang mentality won't be too affected by that.

[Power n Glory]

This is my biggest concern after tonight. Wenger seems to have completely given up on having some pace on at least one of the flanks and decided we have to play with 5 central midfielders. This is concerning on so many levels. Because it makes us very one dimensional and having to be at the very top of our game in order to pass the ball through a midfield and defence and lastly it doesn't give us any outlet to relieve pressure. Furthermore it means that teams with pace on the flanks will absolutely crush us given the tendency of all our players to drift centrally and leave our fullbacks exposed. None of the teams we've played so far have had decent wide players barring Everton and they gave us a lot of trouble down the flanks as a result.

I shudder to think what would happen with Man City (Navas and Silva), Chelsea (Hazard and Schurle), Bayern (Robben and Ribery), Madrid (Ronaldo and Bale). We will get creamed in those circumstances.

The best team we have requires at least one wide player with pace - be it Theo or Gnabry or the Ox. I'm not sure Podolski has the pace to do this.

As you say, against Man City we will be well and truly screwed on the flanks. And you're right, he will not play Theo on the wing.

January can't come soon enough. We really don't have a plan B if Giroud isn't firing on all cylinders. He's fantastic at bringing our midfielders into play but as has been touched upon on countless occasions we desperately need a player to be able to get in front of Giroud and play off the shoulder of the last defender. Options are seriously slim in January but we've left ourselves terribly exposed by that. I can't think of who we could realistically aim to get. Perhaps that Belgian striker who seems to have pace to burn?

Biggest concern of all our players at the moment is Cazorla. Not sure what is up with him. But he's struggling to create and shoot. Very poor season so far. Needs to sort it out.

Good post and it's a concern. We're not as direct as we once were and we're starting to look like our old tippy tappy selves. Great passing but lacking in penetration. Wenger needs to play wingers or buy one. I still can't understand why he'd leave Walcott on the bench if he's set his team up to be more defensive. It would have been perfect for counters.

[Özim]

At this point if you ask me what I want, of course I'd say CL because it is what we haven't won.

But the CL you can play awful and be the worst team and win it. And let's not kid ourselves, Chelsea are arguably the worst team to win the CL.

In which game did they outclass their opponents? They were minutes away from going out in the group stages and were outplayed and outclassed against every knockout opponent they came up against and managed to get one goal in each game due to one of the most powerful and effective strikers and won. Even the CL final was a robbery with Bayern hitting the post, having numerous chances and having missed a penalty.

The Premier League is a tournament of consistency. The champions who win the league are deserved winners as they've won it over a period of 38 games. And you can't fluke winning the Premier League.

Anyway, would love to win both this year.

Mind you our unbeaten season still takes the cake. Every team will win a league or the champion's league every year. How often does a team go unbeaten throughout a season in one of the top leagues. Truly a mark of consistency and quality.

Di Matteo took over from a manager who was having a mare to be fair and he didn't just win the CL he won the FA Cup as well, say what you like about Chelsea but they had players who were winners and a never say did attitude which really works for you (yes they also had luck, but you get that in the league as well throughout a season with decisions going your way and winning games you shouldn't have).

The PL is great, but in a sense it's more forgiving, you can lose games, draw games, go on a bad run and still recover to win it, you can't really do that in the CL.

[Power n Glory]

you can win the champions league in theory by not playing a single big club. to win the league you have to play the big clubs in your country, it just so happens in ours there are more big clubs as such then in other leagues.

This is a silly argument, Ollie. Wenger badly wants to win the CL. It's not an easy competition to win. You rarely see the same set of teams dominate or win back to back CL titles like you see in the league.

[Globalgunner]

Some just argue for arguing sake. Juventus, best team in Italy are out. So winning your local league doesnt make you the best in Europe, Beating the best teams in Europe, should by all logic make you the best in Europe......by your logic climbing mount Snowden 10 times is a bigger feat than conquering Everest or K2 once

[Power n Glory]

Two absolutely stunning goals won it for them. A very tough place to go and get a result - they clearly put everything into this performance, summed up by Higuain (actually) crying at the final whistle.

Koscielny - what a defender. Glad to see Mertesacker sounding disgusted at the final whistle... he has a winner's mentality. Wasn't a fluent game by any means but Napoli were snapping away at every opportunity and it was difficult for the midfield. Thought we matched them physically.

But where they have a top striker, we do not. After a good opening few games, Giroud is not looking capable as a striker for a team with title ambitions. Don't want to be singling him out - Gibbs and the midfield were also off their game. In Giroud's case, he's obviously trying his best and he's a key player for us to compete physically. But while a few Bergkamp-esque touches in the first few games raised everyone's hopes, there's a reason why he can only do good things through one touch (and lately even that has been off); his lack of agility is a problem. Things are going well - and they can continue to go well, but surely the easiest position to improve on is upfront.

Hope the away support get back safe. Napoli fans seemed quite content at the final whistle - maybe feeling as we did when we nearly turned around the deficit against Milan and Bayern Munich...but with my immense street knowledge I would guess gang mentality won't be too affected by that.

Good post. Agree with the striker position. The Higuain goal is what I'd love to see Giroud do but he hasn't go the feet or agility even though he has the size and build to hold the ball up in that sort of position.

The flicks and stuff won't be much use to us if their not going to players that aren't great finishers.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

No club has in fact retained the CL to date. Bitterly disappointed by the result and I thought it was quite avoidable. Remarkably similar to our efforts against Bayern last season and if we go out in the next round....... OH bah hambug prize numero uno will go to Wenger.

Least we are through and have a tasty tie looming. IF we get through it, it will be a big confidence boost and I have to admit, I have not favoured our approach to less than top quality opposition in the past.

Let us all collectively hope we do not finish the season with nothing..... even if we can look back and say we've made progress. A bitter pill to swallow that will be.

[Özim]

Good post. Agree with the striker position. The Higuain goal is what I'd love to see Giroud do but he hasn't go the feet or agility even though he has the size and build to hold the ball up in that sort of position.

The flicks and stuff won't be much use to us if their not going to players that aren't great finishers.

Higuain is a class finisher, that goal was superb, the touch the turn, the finish. I agree Giroud is good at holding the ball and flicking it on but he's not one of these players who's going to produce these kind of finishes, he's score a few goals but without being deadly in front of goal.

A deadly finisher would make a huge difference.

[milla]

But where they have a top striker, we do not. After a good opening few games, Giroud is not looking capable as a striker for a team with title ambitions. Don't want to be singling him out - Gibbs and the midfield were also off their game. In Giroud's case, he's obviously trying his best and he's a key player for us to compete physically. But while a few Bergkamp-esque touches in the first few games raised everyone's hopes, there's a reason why he can only do good things through one touch (and lately even that has been off); his lack of agility is a problem. Things are going well - and they can continue to go well, but surely the easiest position to improve on is upfront.

Hope the away support get back safe. Napoli fans seemed quite content at the final whistle - maybe feeling as we did when we nearly turned around the deficit against Milan and Bayern Munich...but with my immense street knowledge I would guess gang mentality won't be too affected by that.

Giroud is hitting his ceiling IMO, still a bloody good striker but we better than good. Find someone with pace, Benteke or Pato would help a lot.

If the rumor about Real Madrid is ready to sell Di Maria this winter, we must take him. A real wide forward with pace would also not a bad option, at least he can latch on to Ozil/Cazorla through balls. :coffee:

[Marc Overmars]

Higuain is a class finisher, that goal was superb, the touch the turn, the finish. I agree Giroud is good at holding the ball and flicking it on but he's not one of these players who's going to produce these kind of finishes, he's score a few goals but without being deadly in front of goal.

A deadly finisher would make a huge difference.

I think he's brilliant for the team but he needs service, as mentioned he's not a particularly inventive striker, like someone who can pounce on half chances and create something from nothing. Most of the goals he scores are in and around the 6 yard box from a clever run or something.

[Tipsychubbs]

I worry we are not ruthless or direct enough, and I fear that will be our undoing eventually.

Done well so far this season, but can't help but see this scenario playing out.

Agree in terms of attacking play and said so after the cardiff game, with a scoreline that made us look better than we were. Its been a pattern for some time despite how well we're doing this season.

[Xhaka Can’t]

So why have we never won it if it's easier, please explain, you can't get unlucky 17 years running.

CL is the ultimate club prize, there's no doubt about it, league is very prestigious but 2nd to that.

We've never won the League Cup either. (to be clear - under Wenger)

[Özim]

I think he's brilliant for the team but he needs service, as mentioned he's not a particularly inventive striker, like someone who can pounce on half chances and create something from nothing. Most of the goals he scores are in and around the 6 yard box from a clever run or something.

Yeah I agree but sometimes when your team isn't playing well an instinctive finisher can help turn it around by changing the flow of the game. Giroud works incredibly hard, fights for every ball, holds up the ball and wins headers but if the team isn't playing from an offensive point of view he seems pretty ineffective.

Shame we missed out on Higuain really, I think I'd be much more confident about our title chances if we had that goalscorer we could fall back on.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

To be fair Steve, Wenger's only really been throwing caution to the wind in the league cup the last few years and we have been in the semi's and spectacularly lost a final which we really should have won.

[Özim]

We've never won the League Cup either.

Actually we have, when it had a different name and we bothered to put a good team out, in the CL we play our best team.

Wenger hasn't won it, but then he plays a weakened side most of the time.

[Xhaka Can’t]

To be fair Steve, Wenger's only really been throwing caution to the wind in the league cup the last few years and we have been in the semi's and spectacularly lost a final which we really should have won.

It was hardly aserious post.

The whole whats tougher/better arguement on League and CL is stupid. Both titles are prestegious and both take different attributes in order to be successful. The League requires resilience with room for error, the CL is a competition (certainly from ko stages onwards) where there is far less room for error, but you can get very far in it without actually facing anyone of note. Which incidentally is why some people here are freaking out about finishing 2nd and who we'll likely face.

If someone offered me either of these comps at theexpense of the other, I'd take it and be fricken delerious.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

My bad.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I thought Giroud was really trying to play to his strengths and needed someone running beyond him, but the team around him just weren't interested in that.

He has his limitations but he was really up against it today, with the way we set up and played.

[Ollie the Optimist]

have to say in what sense, I'm glad about what happened tonight. it means those cunts who call themselves ultras are out. uefa need to stand up and ban euorpean football in italy. any home match should be played in a foreign country. milan fans attacked ajax fans tonight as well. its not just a napoli problem but any football fan who goest Italy knows its a huge risk and there is good chance they could be caught in trouble.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'd also love it if someoneofferedmeacomputerwithadecent spacebar.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Wenger :haha:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It was hardly aserious post.

The whole whats tougher/better arguement on League and CL is stupid. Both titles are prestegious and both take different attributes in order to be successful. The League requires resilience with room for error, the CL is a competition (certainly from ko stages onwards) where there is far less room for error, but you can get very far in it without actually facing anyone of note. Which incidentally is why some people here are freaking out about finishing 2nd and who we'll likely face.

If someone offered me either of these comps at theexpense of the other, I'd take it and be fricken delerious.

Yup, what he said.

[Power n Glory]

I thought Giroud was really trying to play to his strengths and needed someone running beyond him, but the team around him just weren't interested in that.

He has his limitations but he was really up against it today, with the way we set up and played.

We've had problems like this in the past like when we had Chamakh leading the line with midfield players cutting into the middle congesting play (Nasri, Arshavin). I have no idea why Wenger hasn't thought about the balance and where our penetration will come from. It also looks like Giroud has adjusted his style of play compared to last season. His off the ball movement and playing off the shoulder of defenders isn't the same. He's coming short for the ball more often and attempting more flicks and build up play instead of trying to poach goals and be that fox in the box. He'll need to mix it up because unlike Chamakh, he has the ability to do that.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Sounds liiked we nearly cocked it up. Still, credit to the side for holding on for long enough with ten men. So surprised to have seen Walcott didn't start, thought it would have been a perfect game for him such were the circumstances.

[BOBN]

Is Walcott fooking Wengers wife?

We would have won the group if just one of our "leaders" had told these fooks to stop gallivanting and settle for a draw against Dortmund at home. Anybody could see a draw against them at home was a fine result. Still winds me up.

[BOBN]

The CL is the holy grail for every top club whatever you say, you're Champions of Europe if you win it, not of your country so it's actually a bigger title.

Winning the league is special, winning the CL must be something else though.
Winning the CL is only truely special if you double it with the league or you won the title the year prior. Under those circumstances you can legitimately call yourself the best in Europe once you win it.

Win without that league title in and around it and its just a more glitzy FA Cup.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well that was pure embarrassment from start to finish, particularly for Wenger. Best to just forget about that game as quickly as possible and concentrate on picking the wrong team and the wrong tactics for Saturday.

[AFC Leveller]

The positives were that we qualified from the toughest group and were beaten to top spot by goal difference, so all in all we shouldnt be too disappointed.

However, i cant help but feel the blames lies with the manager for this loss (very similar to the Man u one IMO) as he blatanely went out not to concede and it backfired again. Napoli are not Real or Barcelona, we know we can beat them if we play our game (see 2-0 reverse fixture) but we looked scared and clueless throughout the game. Theo should have started, he is fresh and available, plus this game would have been perfect for him.


Why did we not look interested to attack them? we they were without some of their best players and were there for the taking IMO (again, same as Utd) but we we fucked up on the night because the manager still doesnt believe in his side and doesnt want to damage their confidence thus he goes for draws in the big games.

I expect City to beat us because not only do we start games slowly these days but also because we will play a defensive team and look for a draw.

[Marc Overmars]

Really hope we take the game to City, we will get pumped if we try to play conservatively, it doesn't suit us.

Half the players will probably be gassed now as well.

Theo must start.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

"Theo must start".

We've been saying that for the past 3 games now.

Useless.

[Power n Glory]

Theo probably won't start and he's lacking match fitness. No idea why he hasn't started a single game since his return to fitness. He rested Wilshere so he'll probably start. He also needs to stop playing both of our DM's together. We can't really afford fatigue or injuries in that area.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Really hope we take the game to City, we will get pumped if we try to play conservatively, it doesn't suit us.

Half the players will probably be gassed now as well.

Theo must start.

Tbh, I don't think most of them will be gassed. It was a fairly conservative effort out there and they looked comfortable right up to the first goal and probably would have seen out the match comfortably at 0-1 had Arteta not had a brainfart.

The one exception though - is Giroud. He looks completely and utterly exhausted. This is a huge worry for us going into the Christmas programme. With Giroud much less of a threat, we are going to invite all sorts of pressure on ourselves with teams well equipped to do exactly that.

[BOBN]

This is my biggest concern after tonight. Wenger seems to have completely given up on having some pace on at least one of the flanks and decided we have to play with 5 central midfielders. This is concerning on so many levels. Because it makes us very one dimensional and having to be at the very top of our game in order to pass the ball through a midfield and defence and lastly it doesn't give us any outlet to relieve pressure. Furthermore it means that teams with pace on the flanks will absolutely crush us given the tendency of all our players to drift centrally and leave our fullbacks exposed. None of the teams we've played so far have had decent wide players barring Everton and they gave us a lot of trouble down the flanks as a result.

The mans an obsessive and has morphed into a football snob. He gets an ideal in his head and pushes it beyond its limits. Right now its tiki-taka.

But he should note his boyfriends Barcelona have Neymar, Messi, Sanchez, Pedro, Tello... players who can run, penetrate, burst through lines. I mean this Pedro can barely play. Until you can afford a Neymar youve GOT to scarifice some tiki-taka for a player or two with a different dimension.

[Dein-machine]

Neville & Henry were on Sky yesterday prior to the game showing the lack of movement from Giroud in & around the box. This team needs a Suarez/Aguero type of striker to maximise the qualities we have. The only penetration we've had consistanly this year is Ramsey's runs into the box. Even with Ozil in the side, if Ramsey was playing like he did last year we'd be mid-table.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

How deep was Giroud last night? We were basically playing 4-6-0. We had no bloody attack.

[Ollie the Optimist]

how many times have we moaned that we have rushed players back to early? clearly theo is not 100% fit and with our huge schedule coming up in the next month, there is no point rushing him back if there is a chance he isn't fully fit. if he had started and wasn't fit to play a whole game or got injured again we would be killing AW for starting him. its a lose lose situation this for AW

[Grebbo]

1st or 2nd in the group - I'm not bothered at all. We have zero chance of winning the competition.

I actually wouldn't have minded going out of the Champs Lge if it meant we'd have a better chance to win the Prem.

Don't get me wrong, it's nice that we're in the Champs Lge but I just can't get excited about it as there are many teams that are better than us in it. A lot better than us. Whereas in the league City and Chavs haven't found their rhythm yet and Man U are a shambles so I have much more hope.

[Letters]

Isn't last night a bit like the opposite of our game at Bayern last season? That night we had to win 3-0 which was never going to happen, Bayern maybe took their collective eye off the ball and when we got the 2nd goal we gave them a real fright. We were never going to go out last night and maybe with one eye on the City game and knowing we were unlikely to lose 3-0 we coasted through a bit and ended up getting a fright ourselves. But we’re through and with the group we drew I’d have taken that.

Shame we didn't win the group but I don’t think we’ll win the CL so in a way I’d prefer a tougher draw, games I can look forward to us playing.

[BOBN]

How deep was Giroud last night? We were basically playing 4-6-0. We had no bloody attack.
Well he was "linking" play right? "Superbly"

When pundits and stuff gush about how much we dominate possession this season I dont care, I roll my eyes. Because we are effectively cheating. Weve willfully overloaded the team with possession players at the expensive of a cutting edge. Of course were going to dominate possession (couldnt even manage that against Everton). If Roberto Martinez was as obssessed about possession as people say he is, as obssessed as Wenger, hed replace Lukaku, Barkley and Mirallas with more ball-keeping types, but no, he prefers players who will risk the ball but add penetration and thrust, for the greater good.

In 2012 Messi lost the ball more than any other player in La Liga. It laughable that we praise a striker for merely holding the ball and linking play.

[Dein-machine]

Henry spoke to Wumger before the game & asked "did you not think about starting Walcott tonight". Wumger said it did cross his mind but he was on the bench if we needed to score. This states that he is going into a game against average Italian oppsition wanting a 0-0 draw. I've stated before in threads, we got 1-0 up against shit sides in the PL & then seemingly sit back. Flamini is the only defensive midfielder we have, our team is not suited to defend all game. If we do it agian on Saturday we'll get beaten.
Why buy Ozil & then not want to use him?

[Özim]

Isn't last night a bit like the opposite of our game at Bayern last season? That night we had to win 3-0 which was never going to happen, Bayern maybe took their collective eye off the ball and when we got the 2nd goal we gave them a real fright. We were never going to go out last night and maybe with one eye on the City game and knowing we were unlikely to lose 3-0 we coasted through a bit and ended up getting a fright ourselves. But we’re through and with the group we drew I’d have taken that.

Shame we didn't win the group but I don’t think we’ll win the CL so in a way I’d prefer a tougher draw, games I can look forward to us playing.

Probably right, we didn't look likely to ever go out though if their defender Armero had scored his chance it might have been tougher for us, I think the issue is that we needed a point in reality as topping the group makes a huge difference in terms of quality of opposition in the next round so we did have something to play for (think you get money per point as well).

I agree we won't win the CL, but we get more money for getting further so the club should have that as an incentive at least.

[Power n Glory]

Well he was "linking" play right? "Superbly"

When pundits and stuff gush about how much we dominate possession this season I dont care, I roll my eyes. Because we are effectively cheating. Weve willfully overloaded the team with possession players at the expensive of a cutting edge. Of course were going to dominate possession (couldnt even manage that against Everton). If Roberto Martinez was as obssessed about possession as people say he is, as obssessed as Wenger, hed replace Lukaku, Barkley and Mirallas with more ball-keeping types, but no, he prefers players who will risk the ball but add penetration and thrust, for the greater good.

In 2012 Messi lost the ball more than any other player in La Liga. It laughable that we praise a striker for merely holding the ball and linking play.

We just need a better striker. Unlike the tippy tappy team of the Cesc era, this team can actually sit back, defend and then pounce. We had great moments where we looked comfortable defending but then we'd suddenly string together a good attacking move, like the chance Giroud had that was saved. As Henry said, a better striker would have got a better touch on that pass so it would have set him better for the shot instead of moving away from goal and creating a difficult scoring angle. The January transfer window will be a pivotal moment for us. I seriously hope Wenger goes out to buy a striker.

[Özim]

We need some pace up front IMO, so a striker who can finish and have pace would be great, against Everton we seemed really slow getting forward and that was a real hindrance.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

how many times have we moaned that we have rushed players back to early? clearly theo is not 100% fit and with our huge schedule coming up in the next month, there is no point rushing him back if there is a chance he isn't fully fit. if he had started and wasn't fit to play a whole game or got injured again we would be killing AW for starting him. its a lose lose situation this for AW

He's clearly fit enough to come on as sub every game bar last night. That tells me he's fit to play.

Listen if you're going to make excuses then you can always find one. Walcott should have started last night. End of.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Henry spoke to Wumger before the game & asked "did you not think about starting Walcott tonight". Wumger said it did cross his mind but he was on the bench if we needed to score.

So he's fit then. Wenger chose not to start him.

Oh dear.

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah I don't buy the easing him back excuse, he's fit to play.

He was a starter prior to his injury, but with the success we've had with the midfield 5 I don't think Wenget wants to change that yet. He'll string it out for as long as he can like he always does.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger said he'd be first off the bench and I was surprised to see Ramsey come on.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Theo has been very very poor for the most part since signing the new contract. Our relative success this season has been achieved without him.

[Power n Glory]

It still doesn't make tactical sense to leave him on the bench. Plus, he did help change things against Everton.

If Wenger doesn't think Theo is up to the task then he has to buy a proper winger in January also. We won't get away with playing Wilshere on the left all season.

[BOBN]

We just need a better striker. Unlike the tippy tappy team of the Cesc era, this team can actually sit back, defend and then pounce. We had great moments where we looked comfortable defending but then we'd suddenly string together a good attacking move, like the chance Giroud had that was saved. As Henry said, a better striker would have got a better touch on that pass so it would have set him better for the shot instead of moving away from goal and creating a difficult scoring angle. The January transfer window will be a pivotal moment for us. I seriously hope Wenger goes out to buy a striker.
But tbf its not just Girouds fault. RVP admitted Walcott was brilliant for him. A lot of his gosls were tap ins from a square ball from Walcott after he'd got him behind.

Our striker position and right wing position need to be upgraded with pace. There are some piss-easy goals to be had just by adding pace. Especially in this crude league.

[Ollie the Optimist]

He's clearly fit enough to come on as sub every game bar last night. That tells me he's fit to play.

Listen if you're going to make excuses then you can always find one. Walcott should have started last night. End of.


perhaps he has just shit in training then who knows? Theo is a good player but as Gary says, he has been poor since his new deal and we are 5 points clear despite him not playing. looking at the comment that AW said he would play him if we needed a goal says AW was lining up to be defensive and conservative. before the game, was the way i would have gone, afterwards it clearly was wrong decision.

however, Theo should have come on as a sub. i didn't get why he dint

[milla]

perhaps he has just shit in training then who knows? Theo is a good player but as Gary says, he has been poor since his new deal and we are 5 points clear despite him not playing. looking at the comment that AW said he would play him if we needed a goal says AW was lining up to be defensive and conservative. before the game, was the way i would have gone, afterwards it clearly was wrong decision.

however, Theo should have come on as a sub. i didn't get why he dint

If Feo is not up to our standard, get someone else who can do the job. At £100k a week, there are a few of WF who can do better what we have now. :coffee:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

when we play negatively we are asking players to play differently to what they are asked to do 80% of the time. We get beaten by a shit Man Utd side because we were negative, which will happen when we play City & Chelski. And we wonder why our recored against the big teams is poor? Our attacking play tonight was simply embarrasing against a poor Napoli defence. Attack is the best form of defence - we have been playing the best football in the league, why dont we let teams worry about us.


Henry spoke to Wumger before the game & asked "did you not think about starting Walcott tonight". Wumger said it did cross his mind but he was on the bench if we needed to score. This states that he is going into a game against average Italian oppsition wanting a 0-0 draw. I've stated before in threads, we got 1-0 up against shit sides in the PL & then seemingly sit back. Flamini is the only defensive midfielder we have, our team is not suited to defend all game. If we do it agian on Saturday we'll get beaten.
Why buy Ozil & then not want to use him?

Absolutely spot on.

If Feo is not up to our standard, get someone else who can do the job. At £100k a week, there are a few of WF who can do better what we have now. :coffee:

I believe he is on 90k but I see your point. Ironically Podolski is on 100k and Wenger was reluctant to play him even when he was fit. No wonder he's always smiling.

[IBK]

We're into December and we're looking tired at the wrong time with Man City and Chelsea to play next.

This. The bed-wetting taunt by the OP is childish.

No one is denying that we have had a fine season so far, but every title contender will come under the microscope and the fact is that we have already been found wanting a few times this season when the focus has been on us.

We have failed to top a group that we were in control of. A team with real winning credentials should have had the composure to get a draw against Napoli.

We lost to a bedraggled Manure outfit who have lost at home to the likes of Everton and Newcastle.

We only took a point from Everton after leading them at home with 10 mins to go.

Whatever our progress these are results that people will look at and be entitled to question our winning credentials. Throughout our trophy less years AW teams have always been capable of the kind of wins we achieved in Dortmund. Bottom line is that we have not really done anything yet to alter the prevailing opinion that we will not match the likes of Citeh over the course of the season.

No one knows how things will pan out but people are entitled to reserve judgment about this team in the meantime.

[Maestro]

This. The bed-wetting taunt by the OP is childish.

No one is denying that we have had a fine season so far, but every title contender will come under the microscope and the fact is that we have already been found wanting a few times this season when the focus has been on us.

We have failed to top a group that we were in control of. A team with real winning credentials should have had the composure to get a draw against Napoli.

We lost to a bedraggled Manure outfit who have lost at home to the likes of Everton and Newcastle.

We only took a point from Everton after leading them at home with 10 mins to go.

Whatever our progress these are results that people will look at and be entitled to question our winning credentials. Throughout our trophy less years AW teams have always been capable of the kind of wins we achieved in Dortmund. Bottom line is that we have not really done anything yet to alter the prevailing opinion that we will not match the likes of Citeh over the course of the season.

No one knows how things will pan out but people are entitled to reserve judgment about this team in the meantime.

:gp:

[Xhaka Can’t]

This. The bed-wetting taunt by the OP is childish.



Not when you were sitting reading ~half a dozen posters as they soiled their matresses in the match thread all night.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I don't expect us to win anything this season, and I seriously doubt anyone with half a brain who did at the start of the season. But the direction of travel has given me back something I'd lost long ago - hope.

If you have no hope - what is the point.?

That said, it is pretty damned optimistic to think that signing Flamini and Ozil is going to deliver silverware.

Their signing and the disposal of a plethora of deadwood is a noticeable shift in strategy. It also demonstrates we were serious about Suarez (who I hate). When we wereafter him, I thought it was utter bollox, but could you imagine how many goals he would get in our side?

I'm disappointed by the result last night, but that is a small part of the bigger picture. If we continue with the transfer activity and build upon the side we have, I am confident genuine challenges for trophies will come.

[Niall_Quinn]

The Everton result was a much bigger problem. We were never winning the CL anyway (or seriously competing if we're honest), that competition is a bit of fun while it lasts and money in the bank. So we're through to the next round where we'll probably get knocked out. But it's still mission accomplished in terms of what's achievable.

We should have beaten Everton though. That was a massive fuck-up and Wenger has to take the responsibility for the horrible, conservative tactics we saw in the first half. I can understand (though don't agree with) the negative approach against Napoli when we only had to avoid a 3 goal defeat to achieve something. But we can't be fucking around like that in the league where come the end of the season every point and maybe even every goal will have a crucial bearing. Look how close things have been for us in recent seasons. We can't afford to be throwing away games like that.

[Letters]

Is was a massive fuck up to fail to beat a side who have only lost once all season?
Only City have beaten them this year and that was at their place where they've been pummeling everyone.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Is was a massive fuck up to fail to beat a side who have only lost once all season?
Only City have beaten them this year and that was at their place where they've been pummeling everyone.

:upset:

[Özim]

Is was a massive fuck up to fail to beat a side who have only lost once all season?
Only City have beaten them this year and that was at their place where they've been pummeling everyone.

Yeah and sadly we go there next, tired and seemingly not looking in as good form as we have been, bad timing for sure. We've done well this season, but it's a bit disappointing to be well ahead in the league and to be thinking that it's realistic that we're going to lose to Man City and Chelsea, we should fancy our chances against anyone being top of the league at this stage.

[Power n Glory]

Not when you were sitting reading ~half a dozen posters as they soiled their matresses in the match thread all night.

It's a live game when emotions are running high. Isn't that expected? Reactions are always exaggerated whether good or bad! It's been pretty measured in here and we should just be able to talk about the game and results without it going down this road.

Some say this is a nothing result and won't have an effect but at the same time point to the positive result in Munich as the moment when the squad started to click. Isn't it possible for the reverse to happen after yesterday and Everton? We don't know for certain but I wouldn't be so dismissive either. There are still question marks and I honestly think this is our shot and I thought that before the season kicked off. Too many teams have gone through major changes and that always plays a big part in how things pan out. We need to take this opportunity and I hope the players and manger dust off this mini shake.

[Niall_Quinn]

Is was a massive fuck up to fail to beat a side who have only lost once all season?
Only City have beaten them this year and that was at their place where they've been pummeling everyone.

Yes, without a doubt. We handed them the initiative by being negative from the outset - many confused this with Everton being excellent. They were decent enough to exploit the huge amount of time and space we gave them, but that's all. Then we managed to grab a lead, then we managed to throw it away - albeit following an astoundingly bad refereeing decision that failed to spot a glaring offside compounded by unacceptable defending from Gibbs. We expect referees to be sub-standard, but if you have ambitions to challenge for the title you must have more ambition and authority than we showed against Everton. I believe Wenger tried to get a result with a reduced effort and then did the same against Napoli, with the intention of avoiding injuries and fatigue in the upcoming games against the gypsies and the chavs. But a loss of momentum and form is its own injury. A conservative approach has seen us lose 5 points, lose top spot in our CL group and if we try it again on Saturday we'll lose 3 more points. You don't go through a series of big games trying to do the minimum and average things out, you go in all guns blazing and anything over a 50/50 break is good news. I can see us getting 1, maybe 2 points from the 4 games - it should have been at least 6, Everton was by far the easiest of the games. It was a huge fuck up not to get 3 of the points we need.

[Özim]

Got to agree, Everton was the one we should have been looking to get 3 points from, Man City away is very tricky and Chelsea we always struggle against. Our lead at the top can be eroded very quickly and a few poor results will do nothing for the players confidence or the squad's belief they can finally end our trophy drought. Let's not forget we've been here before at this time of the season, sitting there with a comfortable lead looking good, we ended up 3rd after a shocking run of results.

Momentum is everything in football, the minute you get a couple poor results doubts creep in.

[Syn]

@NQ: A draw at home against Everton wasn't a good result. But at the same time everyone is going to drop plenty of points. It's a competitive league and a lot of teams (Everton, Southampton, Newcastle and probably a few others), including ourselves, look stronger than last year.

If we want the title, it will be an 'ok' result only if we manage a better record against the title favourites (Chelsea and Man City). You can win the league by being flat track bullies, but that assumes you're beating Everton at home. Now we've put ourselves in the position where we absolutely need a win against either Man City or Chelsea. For the purposes of getting back the confidence we had just a few games ago, as well as keeping a few points ahead in the table.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

perhaps he has just shit in training then who knows? Theo is a good player but as Gary says, he has been poor since his new deal and we are 5 points clear despite him not playing. looking at the comment that AW said he would play him if we needed a goal says AW was lining up to be defensive and conservative. before the game, was the way i would have gone, afterwards it clearly was wrong decision.

however, Theo should have come on as a sub. i didn't get why he dint

Ollie it's WRONG. If you play defensive you need an outlet for the counter. We had no pace in our attack again because of the personnel employed. Theo is made for european away games, we can sit back then unleash him on the attack. Giroud was deep and isolated all night, with someone like Theo near him we could have got a goal. In the end the ball was constantly pumped to Giroud, who was near the half way line, and he'd be wrestled off the ball by their players because no-one was near him. Then they'd regain control of the game.

I was full of praise for Wenger at the start of the season but last night smacked of nutty professor again. That's twice (although I'd argue three times) in a row he's picked the wrong players. A squad is there to be used. At the moment he wants to employ the same players/tactics because he's found his favourite 5 and thinks we can rock up with them every game.

We know how stubborn he can be. It's worrying.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It's a live game when emotions are running high. Isn't that expected? Reactions are always exaggerated whether good or bad! It's been pretty measured in here and we should just be able to talk about the game and results without it going down this road.

Some say this is a nothing result and won't have an effect but at the same time point to the positive result in Munich as the moment when the squad started to click. Isn't it possible for the reverse to happen after yesterday and Everton? We don't know for certain but I wouldn't be so dismissive either. There are still question marks and I honestly think this is our shot and I thought that before the season kicked off. Too many teams have gone through major changes and that always plays a big part in how things pan out. We need to take this opportunity and I hope the players and manger dust off this mini shake.

And that was my reaction.

And I stand by it.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It's a live game when emotions are running high. Isn't that expected? Reactions are always exaggerated whether good or bad! It's been pretty measured in here and we should just be able to talk about the game and results without it going down this road.

Some say this is a nothing result and won't have an effect but at the same time point to the positive result in Munich as the moment when the squad started to click. Isn't it possible for the reverse to happen after yesterday and Everton? We don't know for certain but I wouldn't be so dismissive either. There are still question marks and I honestly think this is our shot and I thought that before the season kicked off. Too many teams have gone through major changes and that always plays a big part in how things pan out. We need to take this opportunity and I hope the players and manger dust off this mini shake.

I don't think this is our shot. I think (though I could be wrong) that there is a fundamental shift in our approach to the transfer market. That has given me hope, but not so much hope that I reckon two players with a very very fragile attack is going to win us thetitle this season. Giroud looks wrecked to me.

Sorry for the multiple quotes.

[Niall_Quinn]

@NQ: A draw at home against Everton wasn't a good result. But at the same time everyone is going to drop plenty of points. It's a competitive league and a lot of teams (Everton, Southampton, Newcastle and probably a few others), including ourselves, look stronger than last year.

If we want the title, it will be an 'ok' result only if we manage a better record against the title favourites (Chelsea and Man City). You can win the league by being flat track bullies, but that assumes you're beating Everton at home. Now we've put ourselves in the position where we absolutely need a win against either Man City or Chelsea. For the purposes of getting back the confidence we had just a few games ago, as well as keeping a few points ahead in the table.

Yes, I agree. We've left ourselves the harder path. What irritates is we all but walked into this situation by being negative. Negative has never suited us, we just don't have the resources or mentality to do the Chelsea thing and get away with it. So now we have to hope for a positive approach to the next two games. If we go into those looking to sit back and nick a goal I swear I'll chew my leg off. We've come a long way since the Villa game, but let's not kid ourselves we are the finished article. Everton and Napoli represented opportunities, the next two games are a step up and let's not forget how shit the refs are. It's not great to be looking for 6 points from those games when 3 against Everton and 50/50 in the next two would have been acceptable. But of course if we get 6 then it's a whole new game. But I'm watching carefully for the flaws of the past creeping in, and I'm starting to see it. A lot of the problems come directly from Wenger. There were no expectations this season, what does he have to lose by giving it a go? So what if players get tired? Bring more in. Some of our brightest moments were when we were backs to the wall with injuries and had players like Flamini busting a gut playing out of position.

That said, it's fun even being in the mix.

[Letters]

That said, it's fun even being in the mix.
This.

That's why I'm struggling to be that critical of them at the moment. Fine, we could have beaten Everton but it has to be recognised that they're a difficult side to beat this year. But we're 5 points clear - who seriously would have thought we'd even be up there at this stage let alone clear at the top - and sure, we could have got a draw last night and won the group but we've still qualified from the 'group of death' which most of us thought would be difficult to say the least.

We may not win the title this year, we probably won't in my opinion, but right now I'm just enjoying the ride. We seem to be heading in the right direction, we're miles ahead of where we were last season, I'm enjoying the football we're playing.

Right now that's enough for me.

[Power n Glory]

And that was my reaction.

And I stand by it.

Lashing out against the people that post on here everyday doesn't make sense. Causes friction and doesn't encourage good debate or comments on the actual game and players.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Mods :haha:

Shit stirrers.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think this is our shot. I think (though I could be wrong) that there is a fundamental shift in our approach to the transfer market. That has given me hope, but not so much hope that I reckon two players with a very very fragile attack is going to win us thetitle this season. Giroud looks wrecked to me.

Sorry for the multiple quotes.

Why isn't this our shot? We're very unlikely to come across a period where all three of the past title winning clubs are struggling for consistency and it's down to managerial changes. Next year they'll have a years experience with their squads and will have a clear picture of what areas need strengthening and what needs trimming. It's only going to get harder as they gain more experience with their players.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why isn't this our shot? We're very unlikely to come across a period where all three of the past title winning clubs are struggling for consistency and it's down to managerial changes. Next year they'll have a years experience with their squads and will have a clear picture of what areas need strengthening and what needs trimming. It's only going to get harder as they gain more experience with their players.

Next year we'll have Diaby back (for a game), so that evens it out.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Lashing out against the people that post on here everyday doesn't make sense. Causes friction and doesn't encourage good debate or comments on the actual game and players.

I was not lashing out against 'good debate'! :haha:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Why isn't this our shot? We're very unlikely to come across a period where all three of the past title winning clubs are struggling for consistency and it's down to managerial changes. Next year they'll have a years experience with their squads and will have a clear picture of what areas need strengthening and what needs trimming. It's only going to get harder as they gain more experience with their players.
Because we haven't got the capacity to see it through up front. Giroud, as good as he is, is not enough. We are on our way however. Other teams will strengthen for sure, but so will we presumably, and with a younger and more in prime core, any improvement we make ought to be more material.

I simply don't think it will happen this season, but at the same time, it might. That is the hope I have. Right here, right now, that and then hope we will continue to strengthen the team is good enough for me now.

[Letters]

Mods :haha:

Shit stirrers.
Rubbish.

We're excellent stirrers :sulk:

[selassie]

Because we haven't got the capacity to see it through up front. Giroud, as good as he is, is not enough. We are on our way however. Other teams will strengthen for sure, but so will we presumably, and with a younger and more in prime core, any improvement we make ought to be more material.

I simply don't think it will happen this season, but at the same time, it might. That is the hope I have. Right here, right now, that and then hope we will continue to strengthen the team is good enough for me now.

I kind of agree with what you are saying here in regards to strengthening up front.

I don't think Arsene will refuse to strengthen the attack out of principle, but it is more a case of I don't really see there being any top class forwards available in the January market to upgrade the team/improve the squad immeasurably. Ultimately I think Arsene will gamble and stick with Theo & Podolski supporting Giroud.

Will that take us over the line and cement our position as the number one team in PL? I don't know, but I do know that I would feel a lot more comfortable with a quality addition like say a Benzema or Diego Costa or someone like that. I might sound greedy but either the above would be great buys but if we don't decide to enter the market we should aim for the best in the Summer and aggresively pursuit their signatures, I.E. A Suarez or a Rooney.

The summer market was where we really should have strenghtened the attack...but we didn't and we are where we are.

[Dein-machine]

I kind of agree with what you are saying here in regards to strengthening up front.

I don't think Arsene will refuse to strengthen the attack out of principle, but it is more a case of I don't really see there being any top class forwards available in the January market to upgrade the team/improve the squad immeasurably. Ultimately I think Arsene will gamble and stick with Theo & Podolski supporting Giroud.

Will that take us over the line and cement our position as the number one team in PL? I don't know, but I do know that I would feel a lot more comfortable with a quality addition like say a Benzema or Diego Costa or someone like that. I might sound greedy but either the above would be great buys but if we don't decide to enter the market we should aim for the best in the Summer and aggresively pursuit their signatures, I.E. A Suarez or a Rooney.

The summer market was where we really should have strenghtened the attack...but we didn't and we are where we are.

Agree with that but the next issue is our transfer policy. Last year we had some idiot who decided it would be a great idea to offer Liverpool £1 over Suarez's release clause fee thinking it wouldn't alienate us, we had an idiot trying to sign Cabaye who says on the phone " that's too expensive for a squad player" with Cabaye listening, we have people who think its really clever to leave everything to the last minute - nobody see's the sense in getting business done as early as possibe to get the new players on pre-season tours etc. Its like we've got a school kid dealing with transfers - get someone in who knows what they are doing & understands how to negotiate.

[Power n Glory]

Because we haven't got the capacity to see it through up front. Giroud, as good as he is, is not enough. We are on our way however. Other teams will strengthen for sure, but so will we presumably, and with a younger and more in prime core, any improvement we make ought to be more material.

I simply don't think it will happen this season, but at the same time, it might. That is the hope I have. Right here, right now, that and then hope we will continue to strengthen the team is good enough for me now.

This is the sporting equivalent of Federer and Nadal being out injured for a grandslam or Schumacher retiring after years of dominance with Ferrari. We should be doing all we can to win the title this year. This is a massive opportunity.

[Power n Glory]

I was not lashing out against 'good debate'! :haha:

I didn't say that. I said it doesn't encourage good debate or comments on the actual game.

[Letters]

This is the sporting equivalent of Federer and Nadal being out injured for a grandslam.
Not really, it's more like them changing coaches and there being some uncertainty about how they'll do.
Chelsea and City haven't disappeared, they've both got ridiculous squads and one of them has a manager who has won the title for them before.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I don't discount the point you're making, but even in this environment, who in their right mind thought at the beginning of the season that we had a chance.

We've had a great start, so much so that if as Syn says, we become a good FTB, we have a chance.

For my money though, City are winning the title. A monkey should be able to take that talent to the top. Unfortunately they got rid of someone stupider than a monkey

[Power n Glory]

I really don’t see it that way and thought we’d have a serious chance if we spent this summer. It was cemented as soon as Ivan started talking. I didn’t believe it was the usual PR talk and was totally pissed about how late we left our business because we were blowing a serious opportunity. Who in their right mind? We’ll flip that. What makes you think an opportunity like this will come again? Who says Wenger will even be here coaching in a few years? Who says after assembling our best squad in years City and Chelsea won’t spend silly money or Jose hasn’t put together a really strong Chelsea side we just can’t keep up with? I guess we have different expectation levels, hence the ‘bed wetting’ comment but you shouldn’t really be mocking people that believe we can do it.

[Power n Glory]

Not really, it's more like them changing coaches and there being some uncertainty about how they'll do.
Chelsea and City haven't disappeared, they've both got ridiculous squads and one of them has a manager who has won the title for them before.

But do you get the point? Again, what makes you think it will be any easier next season once they're in their stride?

[LDG]

A week is a long time in football.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I really don’t see it that way and thought we’d have a serious chance if we spent this summer. It was cemented as soon as Ivan started talking. I didn’t believe it was the usual PR talk and was totally pissed about how late we left our business because we were blowing a serious opportunity. Who in their right mind? We’ll flip that. What makes you think an opportunity like this will come again? Who says Wenger will even be here coaching in a few years? Who says after assembling our best squad in years City and Chelsea won’t spend silly money or Jose hasn’t put together a really strong Chelsea side we just can’t keep up with? I guess we have different expectation levels, hence the ‘bed wetting’ comment but you shouldn’t really be mocking people that believe we can do it.

Opportunities are going to come along regularly if there is indeed a fundamental shift in our transfer policy. Tbh, I prefer my scenario where we continue to build on the competitiveness of the team over a sustained period rather than a one off hurrah because others are in transition. Besides, what is the guarantee that their transitions will be successful?

As for your last point, I never mocked anyone for thinking we can won things this year. Not once.

[Power n Glory]

One last hurrah? We’re talking about one more major signing up front to push for the title. Seizing an opportunity.

What’s the ‘bed wetting’ comment about then? Seems to stem from a divide in opinion on how we’ll fair this season. You’re expectations are lower than others so reaction to certain results will differ.

[Xhaka Can’t]

One last hurrah? We’re talking about one more major signing up front to push for the title. Seizing an opportunity.

What’s the ‘bed wetting’ comment about then? Seems to stem from a divide in opinion on how we’ll fair this season. You’re expectations are lower than others so reaction to certain results will differ.

The bed wetting comment on a match reaction thread for a CL match has nothing to do with how I think we'll do in the League and what I I think of how others perceive our league chances.

For the life of me, I cannot work out how you even made that leap! Especially as there is a comment from me explaining what I was referring to earlier in the thread.

The last hurrah comment is to do with us building for sustained challenges now and in the future. I don't see it as you seem to imply that we'll never have a better chance. I think as I have explained many times that we will become better challengers for honors over a sustained period if we build on the transfer activity in the summer.

Also, I have never (since October anyway) not ruled out the chance that we can win the League this season. I just do not think it is likely UNLESS, we go out and buy someone in January to take some of the load off Giroud.

[Power n Glory]

The bed wetting comment on a match reaction thread for a CL match has nothing to do with how I think we'll do in the League and what I I think of how others perceive our league chances.

For the life of me, I cannot work out how you even made that leap! Especially as there is a comment from me explaining what I was referring to earlier in the thread.

The last hurrah comment is to do with us building for sustained challenges now and in the future. I don't see it as you seem to imply that we'll never have a better chance. I think as I have explained many times that we will become better challengers for honors over a sustained period if we build on the transfer activity in the summer.

Also, I have never (since October anyway) not ruled out the chance that we can win the League this season. I just do not think it is likely UNLESS, we go out and buy someone in January to take some of the load off Giroud.

Even Henry in his post match reaction on Sky could make the link. Come on now!

It's like people making a connection to Bayern last season with our current run of form. It's all about confidence. Jeez!

[Xhaka Can’t]

Even Henry in his post match reaction on Sky could make the link. Come on now!

It's like people making a connection to Bayern last season with our current run of form. It's all about confidence. Jeez!

I'm pretty sure Henry never read my post. Or the posts where I've explained what the reference was to. Or the posts where I've explained what I think our chances are. Or the posts where I've said nothing whatsoever, critical or otherwise, about those thinking we can or cannot win the League.

If am wrong, I would just like to say, Thierry, I love you. You are my hero, even after that double handball against Ireland.

You have given me countless moments that I'll always treasure. When I watched you, I knew at the time that I was witnessing the golden age of Arsenal football club.

[Power n Glory]

I'm pretty sure Henry never read my post. Or the posts where I've explained what the reference was to. Or the posts where I've explained what I think our chances are. Or the posts where I've said nothing whatsoever, critical or otherwise, about those thinking we can or cannot win the League.

If am wrong, I would just like to say, Thierry, I love you. You are my hero, even after that double handball against Ireland.

You have given me countless moments that I'll always treasure. When I watched you, I knew at the time that I was witnessing the golden age of Arsenal football club.

oh dear! :doh:

[Dein-machine]

I'm pretty sure Henry never read my post. Or the posts where I've explained what the reference was to. Or the posts where I've explained what I think our chances are. Or the posts where I've said nothing whatsoever, critical or otherwise, about those thinking we can or cannot win the League.

If am wrong, I would just like to say, Thierry, I love you. You are my hero, even after that double handball against Ireland.

You have given me countless moments that I'll always treasure. When I watched you, I knew at the time that I was witnessing the golden age of Arsenal football club.

:banghead: - PnG you're flogging a dead horse

[Power n Glory]

I know. I've given up after that one.

[Dein-machine]

I know. I've given up after that one.

people don't appreciate how strong Tennants actually is.

[Power n Glory]

:lol: It's too early in the afternoon to be knocking em back.

[Niall_Quinn]

A week is a long time in football.

And it's worth two hands in your bird's bush.

[Letters]

But do you get the point?
To an extent but we're not in Celtic's position where
a) We're one of the favourites for the title every year and
b) The only other serious contenders have been kicked out of the league.


Again, what makes you think it will be any easier next season once they're in their stride?
I don't think it'll be easier next season. But I don't think it'll be easy this season either and won't necessarily be harder next season. If Ozil is a sign of things to come in terms of our transfer policy then it may be easier next season, as others have noted we're still a bit lightweight up front.

ManYoo have lost the Fergie Factor, that's a massive plus for us and for anyone wanting to win the PL title. That's not a one season thing and even if they sack Moyes I don't think they'll be as good under anyone else. But the beneficiaries of that are more likely to be Chelsea and City than us. Both sides have changed manager but both have ridiculous, billionaire fuelled squads. A trained chimp could get them winning plenty of games with those players and Chelsea have a manager who has won the PL and CL more than once.

If this was back in the day when it was either us or Utd winning the title then I'd agree we'd have a real chance this year but with City and Chelsea's squads it's not that simple any more. We've had an outstanding start and for all their poor results here and there they're only 5 and 6 points behind us and we have both as our next 2 games.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Take out my message to Henry and there is nothing in my post you can contradict. You either made stuff up or you made ridiculous leaps.

It is not the first time you've done this, nor am I the first person you've done this to.

O

[Power n Glory]

It is not the first time you've done this, nor am I the first person you've done this to.

Don't start crying! Jeez!

[Xhaka Can’t]

Don't start crying! Jeez!

You really ought to stop misrepresenting things people say and then going on to argue against them on a point theyve never made.

[Letters]

To an extent but we're not in Celtic's position where
a) We're one of the favourites for the title every year and
b) The only other serious contenders have been kicked out of the league.


I don't think it'll be easier next season. But I don't think it'll be easy this season either and won't necessarily be harder next season. If Ozil is a sign of things to come in terms of our transfer policy then it may be easier next season, as others have noted we're still a bit lightweight up front.

ManYoo have lost the Fergie Factor, that's a massive plus for us and for anyone wanting to win the PL title. That's not a one season thing and even if they sack Moyes I don't think they'll be as good under anyone else. But the beneficiaries of that are more likely to be Chelsea and City than us. Both sides have changed manager but both have ridiculous, billionaire fuelled squads. A trained chimp could get them winning plenty of games with those players and Chelsea have a manager who has won the PL and CL more than once.

If this was back in the day when it was either us or Utd winning the title then I'd agree we'd have a real chance this year but with City and Chelsea's squads it's not that simple any more. We've had an outstanding start and for all their poor results here and there they're only 5 and 6 points behind us and we have both as our next 2 games.


:gp:



:getcoat:

[Power n Glory]

You really ought to stop misrepresenting things people say and then going on to argue against them on a point theyve never made.[/QUOTE

Ahh, that’s a cop out and you could have clarified your position ages. You got stuck and decided to go all childish with that Henry response. IBK came up with the best response and sums it up really. It’s concise and to the point. Here it is again.

[QUOTE]This. The bed-wetting taunt by the OP is childish.

No one is denying that we have had a fine season so far, but every title contender will come under the microscope and the fact is that we have already been found wanting a few times this season when the focus has been on us.

We have failed to top a group that we were in control of. A team with real winning credentials should have had the composure to get a draw against Napoli.

We lost to a bedraggled Manure outfit who have lost at home to the likes of Everton and Newcastle.

We only took a point from Everton after leading them at home with 10 mins to go.

Whatever our progress these are results that people will look at and be entitled to question our winning credentials. Throughout our trophy less years AW teams have always been capable of the kind of wins we achieved in Dortmund. Bottom line is that we have not really done anything yet to alter the prevailing opinion that we will not match the likes of Citeh over the course of the season.

No one knows how things will pan out but people are entitled to reserve judgment about this team in the meantime.


Maybe there is a gulf in expectations. Maybe you’re a bit blasé about our results because you don’t feel as if we’re contenders for the league whilst other feel we need to show up for the big games because this could be our best shot? You tell me. I wouldn’t want to leave this open to misinterpretation.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I honestly can't be bothered any more.

I feel hopeful in the direction the team is taking , accept there will be setbacks along the way, but feel we has a better chance of success longer term. We no longer need to weaken the squad or at best stand still while others go nuts. I think there is a chance we'll win the League this year, but it is highly dependent on us remaining the FTBs we've been to this point.

Sign a striker in the Jan window and we could be away. But if compelled to part with money, it would be on City. Getting rid of Mancini made them stronger, not weaker as has been implied by many.

I made these points and plenty more throughout the thread. And while I shouldn't have done the Henry bit, I do not recognize the argument you are attributing to me.

[Syn]

Letters, that was a really bad post. I'd delete it if I were you.

[Letters]

Syn, you've got a really bad face. I'd delete it if I were you.

[fakeyank]

:gp:



:getcoat:

Thats just clutching at straws! :tumbleweed:

[Dein-machine]

Goonersweb is not unique, you will find the same arguments raging on forums for all teams, no matter how good or bad they are.

We have people on here who think AW is the greatest thing to happen to our club & want many more years from him, we have those who think AW has been great but are undecided if he can take us forward, we have those who think he's been great but time for a change, we have those that wanted him out years ago.

None of us actually know who's right or wrong, but we all have an opinion based on our love for the club. Personally, I didn't start this season expecting it to be any different to previous years especially after our lack of Summers Spending.

We get beat by Villa, we look weak defensively, hit & miss upfront. We sign Ozil, which gave us all a lift ( nobody thinking 1 man could win the league ), but with the feeling that we could finally start to compete again. We then start to win every game, playing some great football, Giroud can't stop scoring, Ramsey's suddenly the best player in the world & our defence looks rock solid.

"Hang on a minute" me thinks - has AW finally got his tactics right & found a formula with consistancy, we smash Napoli in probably the best 45 mins at the Emirates I've seen for years, we play well against Dortund at home, especially second half & lose to a smash & grab from them, we turn that round by doing what no other team has done for years by beating Dortmund in their own stadium, "Hang on a minute" me thinks, maybe AW has definatley got a formula because we're top of the league by quite a few points & the players seem so confident in every game, surely we can finally go to Old Traffford to smash the Mancs because they are playing shit & they shouldn't be able to live with our movement & passing game on a big pitch

--- but AW decides to sit back & not use the strenghts that have set us on fire, we play defensivley like we always do at O.T & we get beat, we get three wins against Cardiff, Southampton & Hull because they are teams that we are allowed to attack but we're all told things are about to get tougher with games against Everton, Napoli, Man City & Chelsea. We were at home to Everton, they play good football but they play in a way that is supposed to suit us. Teams that attack us are often open at the back & our superior passing & movement will prevail. But we sit back, we don't play Walcott althogh he is fit. Oviedo has a field day down our right hand side exactly as he had done a few days earlier at O.T. Did we not realise starting Walcott would have stopped that.

We had no one running past Giroud & played far too deep. Anyway we get a point from a game that we normally win, we've spent £42 million on a world class player since we last played them, they've bought a bloke from Wigan, borrowed one from Chelsea & chucked on a Spanish choir-boy who they've also borrowed - and yet some of you say we should be happy with the point.

We then take our slightly less confident dream team to Napoli, AW doesn't learn his lesson from the Everton game that we don't do negative very well & he sets up a team to try not to attack to much. In his own words we would only bring Theo of the bench if we needed to score. We get beat 2-0 by a very average Napoli side & we go home even less confident about ourselves. Ozil wondering why we bought him if we don't want to beat teams like Man Utd, Everton or Napoli. "Hang on a minute" me thinks - AW is back to he's old tricks of trying to be tactical when he's not very good at it.

At Colney we teach total football, tiki-taka football - lets play like Barca - when do you see Barca playing negatively.

This is why some of us who are far from convinced about AW will vent our frustrations on forums like this. We don't train our players to play negatively, we finally buy a world class player to create assists & score, we have a midfielder who can't stop scoring & the fastest guy in the league back from injury who is going to be even more dangerous with Ozil in the team & we fuck it all up by not playing to our strenghts.

We had a go at Dortmund at home, we lost - so what, we are going to lose games along the way but at least we had a go playing positive football. I don't come on this site & dig out AW every time we lose but feel totally entitled to when I feel HE has cost us the game. Can't blame any of the players on Wed, they had a leash put on them & they are not used to it. I can't change the mind of certain Wengerites on this site & I undertand that but they must also realise that until we see less negativity from him against the top teams you will see plenty more "bed wetting" on this site & others.

[Penguin]

Paragraphs please!

[GP]

No one is gonna read that.

[Niall_Quinn]

I read it. He's right. Wenger cost us 2 points against Everton and top spot in our CL group. On the other hand, his faith in certain players has started to be rewarded. He's right about some things, wrong about others. It wouldn't be so difficult for him to be a bit less conservative but he's a stubborn guy who likes his statistics and averages - but these aren't what winners at the very top level rely on. It's frustrating, he thinks he knows best but can't show anything from the last 8 years to prove it.

[IBK]

Goonersweb is not unique, you will find the same arguments raging on forums for all teams, no matter how good or bad they are.

We have people on here who think AW is the greatest thing to happen to our club & want many more years from him, we have those who think AW has been great but are undecided if he can take us forward, we have those who think he's been great but time for a change, we have those that wanted him out years ago.

None of us actually know who's right or wrong, but we all have an opinion based on our love for the club. Personally, I didn't start this season expecting it to be any different to previous years especially after our lack of Summers Spending.

We get beat by Villa, we look weak defensively, hit & miss upfront. We sign Ozil, which gave us all a lift ( nobody thinking 1 man could win the league ), but with the feeling that we could finally start to compete again. We then start to win every game, playing some great football, Giroud can't stop scoring, Ramsey's suddenly the best player in the world & our defence looks rock solid.

"Hang on a minute" me thinks - has AW finally got his tactics right & found a formula with consistancy, we smash Napoli in probably the best 45 mins at the Emirates I've seen for years, we play well against Dortund at home, especially second half & lose to a smash & grab from them, we turn that round by doing what no other team has done for years by beating Dortmund in their own stadium, "Hang on a minute" me thinks, maybe AW has definatley got a formula because we're top of the league by quite a few points & the players seem so confident in every game, surely we can finally go to Old Traffford to smash the Mancs because they are playing shit & they shouldn't be able to live with our movement & passing game on a big pitch

--- but AW decides to sit back & not use the strenghts that have set us on fire, we play defensivley like we always do at O.T & we get beat, we get three wins against Cardiff, Southampton & Hull because they are teams that we are allowed to attack but we're all told things are about to get tougher with games against Everton, Napoli, Man City & Chelsea. We were at home to Everton, they play good football but they play in a way that is supposed to suit us. Teams that attack us are often open at the back & our superior passing & movement will prevail. But we sit back, we don't play Walcott althogh he is fit. Oviedo has a field day down our right hand side exactly as he had done a few days earlier at O.T. Did we not realise starting Walcott would have stopped that.

We had no one running past Giroud & played far too deep. Anyway we get a point from a game that we normally win, we've spent £42 million on a world class player since we last played them, they've bought a bloke from Wigan, borrowed one from Chelsea & chucked on a Spanish choir-boy who they've also borrowed - and yet some of you say we should be happy with the point.

We then take our slightly less confident dream team to Napoli, AW doesn't learn his lesson from the Everton game that we don't do negative very well & he sets up a team to try not to attack to much. In his own words we would only bring Theo of the bench if we needed to score. We get beat 2-0 by a very average Napoli side & we go home even less confident about ourselves. Ozil wondering why we bought him if we don't want to beat teams like Man Utd, Everton or Napoli. "Hang on a minute" me thinks - AW is back to he's old tricks of trying to be tactical when he's not very good at it.

At Colney we teach total football, tiki-taka football - lets play like Barca - when do you see Barca playing negatively.

This is why some of us who are far from convinced about AW will vent our frustrations on forums like this. We don't train our players to play negatively, we finally buy a world class player to create assists & score, we have a midfielder who can't stop scoring & the fastest guy in the league back from injury who is going to be even more dangerous with Ozil in the team & we fuck it all up by not playing to our strenghts.

We had a go at Dortmund at home, we lost - so what, we are going to lose games along the way but at least we had a go playing positive football. I don't come on this site & dig out AW every time we lose but feel totally entitled to when I feel HE has cost us the game. Can't blame any of the players on Wed, they had a leash put on them & they are not used to it. I can't change the mind of certain Wengerites on this site & I undertand that but they must also realise that until we see less negativity from him against the top teams you will see plenty more "bed wetting" on this site & others.

I read it too - and I agree in the sense that despite all the obvious improvement our manager like our team seems to fall short of what is needed to be ruthless and do what it takes to win. We clearly tried to sign strikers this Summer but fell short. Ozil was important but did not make up for our lack of firepower. We have been great so far this season but in attacking terms that owes much to Ramsey's unexpected form.

Like it or not, our team is slowing down. And it's difficult not to start thinking that while our first team, on form are league winners, our squad is too small in terms of top top quality to weather fatigue, bad luck or players being off form. With our better financial situation surely we could have done that little bit more to prevent that feeling that we are still a bit brittle?

It's a similar thing with some of our tactics. However you analyse AW's tactical performance in matches the ultimate feeling is that our manager is not as unaffected by other teams as he would have us believe. We often seem to lack a bit of boldness - which is the true manifestation of self belief.

[Power n Glory]

:gp: @Dein-machine.

The team selection and tactical decisions are beginning to worry me. We've gotten it wrong a a few times now and I sense that Wenger hasn't quite gotten it out of his system. I anxious to see what he does against City.

The January transfer window will be a pivotal moment. I hope Wenger has seen what we're lacking and addresses the issue.

[Özim]

No one is gonna read that.

Wrong, as usual. :lol:

[Özim]

Goonersweb is not unique, you will find the same arguments raging on forums for all teams, no matter how good or bad they are.

We have people on here who think AW is the greatest thing to happen to our club & want many more years from him, we have those who think AW has been great but are undecided if he can take us forward, we have those who think he's been great but time for a change, we have those that wanted him out years ago.

None of us actually know who's right or wrong, but we all have an opinion based on our love for the club. Personally, I didn't start this season expecting it to be any different to previous years especially after our lack of Summers Spending.

We get beat by Villa, we look weak defensively, hit & miss upfront. We sign Ozil, which gave us all a lift ( nobody thinking 1 man could win the league ), but with the feeling that we could finally start to compete again. We then start to win every game, playing some great football, Giroud can't stop scoring, Ramsey's suddenly the best player in the world & our defence looks rock solid.

"Hang on a minute" me thinks - has AW finally got his tactics right & found a formula with consistancy, we smash Napoli in probably the best 45 mins at the Emirates I've seen for years, we play well against Dortund at home, especially second half & lose to a smash & grab from them, we turn that round by doing what no other team has done for years by beating Dortmund in their own stadium, "Hang on a minute" me thinks, maybe AW has definatley got a formula because we're top of the league by quite a few points & the players seem so confident in every game, surely we can finally go to Old Traffford to smash the Mancs because they are playing shit & they shouldn't be able to live with our movement & passing game on a big pitch

--- but AW decides to sit back & not use the strenghts that have set us on fire, we play defensivley like we always do at O.T & we get beat, we get three wins against Cardiff, Southampton & Hull because they are teams that we are allowed to attack but we're all told things are about to get tougher with games against Everton, Napoli, Man City & Chelsea. We were at home to Everton, they play good football but they play in a way that is supposed to suit us. Teams that attack us are often open at the back & our superior passing & movement will prevail. But we sit back, we don't play Walcott althogh he is fit. Oviedo has a field day down our right hand side exactly as he had done a few days earlier at O.T. Did we not realise starting Walcott would have stopped that.

We had no one running past Giroud & played far too deep. Anyway we get a point from a game that we normally win, we've spent £42 million on a world class player since we last played them, they've bought a bloke from Wigan, borrowed one from Chelsea & chucked on a Spanish choir-boy who they've also borrowed - and yet some of you say we should be happy with the point.

We then take our slightly less confident dream team to Napoli, AW doesn't learn his lesson from the Everton game that we don't do negative very well & he sets up a team to try not to attack to much. In his own words we would only bring Theo of the bench if we needed to score. We get beat 2-0 by a very average Napoli side & we go home even less confident about ourselves. Ozil wondering why we bought him if we don't want to beat teams like Man Utd, Everton or Napoli. "Hang on a minute" me thinks - AW is back to he's old tricks of trying to be tactical when he's not very good at it.

At Colney we teach total football, tiki-taka football - lets play like Barca - when do you see Barca playing negatively.

This is why some of us who are far from convinced about AW will vent our frustrations on forums like this. We don't train our players to play negatively, we finally buy a world class player to create assists & score, we have a midfielder who can't stop scoring & the fastest guy in the league back from injury who is going to be even more dangerous with Ozil in the team & we fuck it all up by not playing to our strenghts.

We had a go at Dortmund at home, we lost - so what, we are going to lose games along the way but at least we had a go playing positive football. I don't come on this site & dig out AW every time we lose but feel totally entitled to when I feel HE has cost us the game. Can't blame any of the players on Wed, they had a leash put on them & they are not used to it. I can't change the mind of certain Wengerites on this site & I undertand that but they must also realise that until we see less negativity from him against the top teams you will see plenty more "bed wetting" on this site & others.


:goodpost: I didn't expect us to win the title this season, though the Ozil signing certainly excited me an raised my hopes but given the position we've got ourselves in we should be frightened of anyone and certainly shouldn't play negatively.

If people are saying a draw against Everton is a good result then I guess they are saying we're in a false position and don't deserve to be top and have just been fortunate to be there, why else would we be happy with a team several places below us when we're playing at home.

If you're top of the league at this stage of the season you should fancy your chances against any team in the league.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Wrong, as usual. :lol:

I edited it following GP's post so that there were paragraphs.

[Xhaka Can’t]

:goodpost: I didn't expect us to win the title this season, though the Ozil signing certainly excited me an raised my hopes but given the position we've got ourselves in we should be frightened of anyone and certainly shouldn't play negatively.

If people are saying a draw against Everton is a good result then I guess they are saying we're in a false position and don't deserve to be top and have just been fortunate to be there, why else would we be happy with a team several places below us when we're playing at home.

If you're top of the league at this stage of the season you should fancy your chances against any team in the league.

It was a good result based on how the match went. It could well have been worse. It is doubtful any of us wanted the draw prior to it. But Everton got the result they deserved.

[Özim]

It was a good result based on how the match went. It could well have been worse. It is doubtful any of us wanted the draw prior to it. But Everton got the result they deserved.

I agree that Everton deserved a draw based on the match, but a lot of people seemed content with a draw, personally I really wanted a win out of this given we were at home, top of the league and had 2 tougher games coming up after it.

If you're top of the league on merit then you shouldn't be scared of anyone particularly at home and should be looking to win any game at home, there was a time when we thought we could get results anywhere and against anyone even when not top of the league.

We now need to up our game in the next two games to get a decent haul of points IMO which is going to be very tough, given how tired we look and our form. I agree with the opinion that AW is a sometimes a bit too negative when he has something to protect, rather than going out to beat teams he'll try and shut up shop and this disrupts our game.

If we do this against City and Chelsea we'll lose both games IMO, but I fear AW will look at our lead in the league and decide we should play for a draw (whilst a draw is fine at City we shouldn't setup to play for it from the off).

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:popcorn:

[LDG]

It was a good result based on how the match went. It could well have been worse. It is doubtful any of us wanted the draw prior to it. But Everton got the result they deserved.

Pretty much. Everyone wanted three points, but when you consider all factors, you understand that you can't win every game.

I'm sure Utd would take a point from their game with Everton (in hindsight). And they're the champions.

Only City have beaten them this season, and they had only conceeded one in the last six. The form team in the league, and full of belief after beating Utd. They were a handful, and whilst we played a bit below par, you can't expect every result to be a win. The invincibles had their fair share of draws I believe.

Dear me.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Well summarised on that last post Dein-Machine.

[IBK]

Strip everything away, this was a game that league champions would be expected to win at home. We didn't - and we've gone on to capitulate against Napoli and Citeh.

[selassie]

Strip everything away, this was a game that league champions would be expected to win at home. We didn't - and we've gone on to capitulate against Napoli and Citeh.

Yep, the Chelsea game is now a must win.

I mentioned this before in the week...but we really have to be consistent and hope we do not drop many more points, if we do....drop points I could see us getting sucked right into the battle for top 4 and I really do not fancy that battle this season as the likes of Liverpool and Everton have massively improved and look very good teams. Let's not forget Man U who will most likely put a run together at some point.

[IBK]

Yep, the Chelsea game is now a must win.

I mentioned this before in the week...but we really have to be consistent and hope we do not drop many more points, if we do....drop points I could see us getting sucked right into the battle for top 4 and I really do not fancy that battle this season as the likes of Liverpool and Everton have massively improved and look very good teams. Let's not forget Man U who will most likely put a run together at some point.

Even more important now. Win this, and we start to look more like value for money at the top. Lose, and we become also rans again.