Match Reaction vs Man City (away).

[BOBN]

Normally the very best players are at the very best clubs and are also surrounded by some of the other very best players in the world. At the moment when we feed Ozil he has nowhere to go & no one to feed unless Ramsey is making a forward run. We need to put some quality around him - Giroud, Whilshere, Santi - not good enough. I'm hoping Theo can benefit from him & vice versa but also that the German bond with Polds can work for us. Will Wumger add more quality in Jan?
As our only offensive player any real consequence, I do expect Walcott to effectively rescue Ozil from failure. The question is will Walcott be enough.

From now on our training regimes should be based on getting the ball to Walcott at opportune moments. Lets stop indulging these feeble tiki-takers and play to our true strength.

[BOBN]

Quit lying? I said 21 and you're argument is what he did as 22yr old (he was actually 23)? I never said he was bad at that age, but nobody really knew him until his breaktrough at the 2002 world cup, where he was 23
"Ronaldo de Assis Moreira (born 21 March 1980), commonly known as Ronaldinho (Brazilian Portuguese:*[ʁonawˈdʒĩɲu]) or Ronaldinho Gaúcho"

QUIT LYING.

Oh you think you get to start for Brazil if youre some random bum? I guarentee Ronaldinho would have been one of the best players in this league at 21. Same applies to Zidane. Lets not forget a clogger from France who couldnt get a game for the national team after a while strolled in and became the leagues best player (Cantona).

[Dein-machine]

As our only offensive player any real consequence, I do expect Walcott to effectively rescue Ozil from failure. The question is will Walcott be enough.

From now on our training regimes should be based on getting the ball to Walcott at opportune moments. Lets stop indulging these feeble tiki-takers and play to our true strength.

Its worrying that we may need Walcott to be on fire to keep our title challenge going. He's been far too inconsistant in recent years, how many times have we thought he was on the verge of greatness to then be kicked in the bollocks again.

[Power n Glory]

Quit lying? I said 21 and you're argument is what he did as 22yr old? I never said he was bad at that age, but nobody really knew him until his breaktrough at the 2002 world cup

His name was ringing bells before he moved to PSG as the next wonderkid from Brazil.

[JonasTC]

"Ronaldo de Assis Moreira (born 21 March 1980), commonly known as Ronaldinho (Brazilian Portuguese:*[ʁonawˈdʒĩɲu]) or Ronaldinho Gaúcho"

QUIT LYING.

Oh you think you get to start for Brazil if youre some random bum? I guarentee Ronaldinho would have been one of the best players in this league at 21. Same applies to Zidane. Lets not forget a clogger from France who couldnt get a game for the national team after a while strolled in and became the leagues best player (Cantona).

My math might be a bit off since i havent slept for 30+ hours, but looking at his birth date, doesnt that mean he is 22 in the summer of 2002? Both of them didnt break through? Both players didnt get their breakthrough at club level until they were 24ish. Its facts vs speculation :) Btw arent you kinda argumenting against yourself now on the Wilshere debate?

You say Wilshere will never be more than a mediocore player despite world class performances vs top level teams and have been apart of his national squad since 18. But you're argument for Ronaldinho being world class at 21 is, that he was part of the national squad and had a couple of world class performances?... I guess it only counts if it helps your own argument? :D

[JonasTC]

His name was ringing bells before he moved to PSG as the next wonderkid from Brazil.

Im very well aware of that, i never said he wasnt good before, but it doesnt change that he didnt have his international breakthrough until the 2002 world cup and he didnt have his proper breakthrough to the Ronaldinho we know today until he was 24ish. Im just using it as an argument to BOBN, that he cant be writting Wilshere off at the age of 21 :)

[BOBN]

My math might be a bit off, but looking at his birth date, doesnt that mean he is 22 in the summer of 2002? Both of them didnt break through? Both players didnt get their breakthrough at club level until they were 24ish. Its facts vs speculation :) Btw arent you kinda argumenting against yourself now on the Wilshere debate?

You say Wilshere will never be more than a mediocore player despite world class performances vs top level teams and have been apart of his national squad since 18. But you're argument for Ronaldinho being world class at 21 is, that he was part of the national squad and had a couple of world class performances?... I guess it only counts if it helps your own argument? :D
Ronaldinho - Powered his team towards a WORLD CUP. End of.

Wilshere - A possession player who supposedly dominated one leg of a tie yet completed less passes, and helped his team retain less possession than the midfield he was supposed to be dominating. His team proceeded to be knocked out in the next leg.

Youre comparing the two? QUIY LYING.

[BOBN]

Im very well aware of that, i never said he wasnt good before, but it doesnt change that he didnt have his international breakthrough until the 2002 world cup and he didnt have his proper breakthrough to the Ronaldinho we know today until he was 24ish. Im just using it as an argument to BOBN, that he cant be writting Wilshere off at the age of 21 :)
At 24 he became the best player in the world, one of the best players ever seen actually. Thats above and beyond "world class" and way above anything expected of Wilshere.

Why cant Wilshere simply be expected to retain a bit of ball and warrant a place in a decent but not great Arsenal side. Why is that asking too much?

[JonasTC]

Ronaldinho - Powered his team towards a WORLD CUP. End of.

Wilshere - A possession player who supposedly dominated one leg of a tie yet completed less passes, and helped his team retain less possession than the midfield he was supposed to be dominating. His team proceeded to be knocked out in the next leg.

Youre comparing the two? QUIY LYING.

Come on BOBN, now you're just making stuff up to fit your own arguments. He had a good world cup and opened the eyes of many, but powering his team? :D Ronaldo and Rivaldo were the guys who took that team to the final and won it :)

[Power n Glory]

Im very well aware of that, i never said he wasnt good before, but it doesnt change that he didnt have his international breakthrough until the 2002 world cup and he didnt have his proper breakthrough to the Ronaldinho we know today until he was 24ish. Im just using it as an argument to BOBN, that he cant be writting Wilshere off at the age of 21 :)

I thought this was about Ozil which is bad enough.

Wilshere – oh hell no. That’s just too much of stretch.

[JonasTC]

At 24 he became the best player in the world, one of the best players ever seen actually. Thats above and beyond "world class" and way above anything expected of Wilshere.

Why cant Wilshere simply be expected to retain a bit of ball and warrant a place in a decent but not great Arsenal side. Why is that asking too much?

At 24... Wilshere is 21 with a really bad injury behind him, so he's probably even a year behind in his development. You know what Ronaldinho was doing at 21? Having disciplinary problems and getting into trouble with his coaches.

Im done arguing with you, when all you do is ignore facts, speculate and highlight parts of the truth to fit your own arguments. Have a nice day :)

[BOBN]

Come on BOBN, now you're just making stuff up to fit your own arguments. He had a good world cup and opened the eyes of many, but powering his team? :D Ronaldo and Rivaldo were the guys who took that team to the final and won it :)


At 24...
http://www.mewbert.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/baby-sinclair.gif

Good day to you too :wave:

[JonasTC]

Now you're just proving my point, taking 2 quotes from 2 different comments that had nothing to do with eachother, to try and make me look bad? Thats just lame and childish.

[Marc Overmars]

BOBN is even adding gifs to his repertoire. :bow:

Big fan of BOBN me.

[Power n Glory]

Normally the very best players are at the very best clubs and are also surrounded by some of the other very best players in the world. At the moment when we feed Ozil he has nowhere to go & no one to feed unless Ramsey is making a forward run. We need to put some quality around him - Giroud, Whilshere, Santi - not good enough. I'm hoping Theo can benefit from him & vice versa but also that the German bond with Polds can work for us. Will Wumger add more quality in Jan?

It’s normal now to see such a saturation of talent in one team but it wasn’t always normal. Club football has surpassed international football in that regard. You used to have to wait for International tournaments to see some the finest players in the world assembled in one squad but it’s now common place with modern day super clubs. Things were easier for Ozil at Madrid and he didn’t have as much pressure to be that game changer and focal point. Wenger will have to set him a goal target for next season and challenge him to take on more responsibility. If the pass isn’t there he needs to go looking for the goal. Make something special happen.

I don’t even think we need to spend crazy money to get the best out of his passing. We just have the wrong players. Giroud has stopped making intelligent runs into the box and Walcott has hardly played this season. Santi is a good player and could assist Ozil and free up space for him because he’s another ball carrier. We had the same problem when Cesc and Nasri were here and Cesc just started banging in goals. We need a mix where we can develop Ozil into a better player but also have players on the field that can utilises his passing and movement.

[BOBN]

Now you're just proving my point, taking 2 quotes from 2 different comments that had nothing to do with eachother, to try and make me look bad? Thats just lame and childish.
I wasnt attempting to imply they were related. Its just I laughed at both equally, would have been harsh for one to miss out on the laughing dino.

- Ronaldinho was critical to their world cup win, everybody in Britain knows that very well because he was personally responsible for killing England.

- Ronaldinho didnt suddenly become good at 24, he became the best player in the world at 24. We know where he was at 21 because he'd had just turned 22 at WC02. Im confident that by the the time he was 17 he had mastered the fundamental things id like Wilshere to master at 22. Im positive that if Wilshere was as good as Ronaldinho was at 21/22 he'd have been awarded a knighthood and BBC sports personality of the year.

[Letters]

We're top of the league for now yes and we've done well in the league but the signs are when we come up against top sides and sides we historically have struggled against in the last 8-9 years we still lose

Fine, but last year we were struggling against lots of sides, not just the big teams. At this stage last year we'd drawn with Sunderland, Stoke, Fulham, Villa and Everton, lost against Norwich. Those are games a side like Arsenal 'should' be winning and while you're not going to win all of them we were failing in far too many. We picked it up towards the end of the season but as you noted at the time we laboured through a lot of them and there were quite a few 1-0s. A for example I can think of off the top of my head is Norwich at home. Yes, we did beat them last year but man we made a meal of it, we were 1-0 down for quite a while and only rescued it towards the end - IMO we deserved to win that day but we made hard work of it, this year we battered them and haven't been sneaking games 1-0.

All the discussions you mentioned about performances can be had after any result, there's no reason Arsenal have to lose to talk about how well individual players or the team played - you take an overly negative view of Arsenal so you only seem interested in those discussions after a poor result, you can win after playing poorly and those discussions can still be had.

Saturday was a bit of a freak game. Conceding 6 there is bad although they have been scoring silly numbers of goals at home. It's true to say they haven't put 6 past many teams although it's the 3rd time so far they've done so or better and didn't they put 5 past Utd? It's also true to say we scored 3 up there and no teams have done that against them at home, they'd only conceded 2 at home all season before we went there. You can put a positive or negative spin on anything, you always seem to choose the latter.

I agree we should wait till the end of the season before judging where we are, that should always be the measure of a season, but this is the first time for years I've genuinely enjoyed how we're playing and have felt confident in the team winning most games. That confidence has been knocked a bit of late and I'm worried about the Chelsea game. But the improvement so far has been fantastic and it's not just a slight improvement, we're still top of the league. Who seriously thought we'd be there at this stage? I don't think we'll stay there but after last season it's not reasonable to expect us to be champions this year. The fact it's been 8 years is not the reason we should expect to challenge, quite the reverse. The fact it's been that long, and that we haven't had a serious challenge for years, shows there's a lot of improvement to make and unless you have a billionaire funding you it's hard to make that improvement in one season. We could have done more in the summer but we're heading in the right direction.

I don't really accept that this is our chance this year. It's not like we were right on the top sides' heels last year, there was a lot of ground to make up. City have a squad that an educated chimp could get to finish near the top, Chelsea have a good squad too and now have Mourinho who has won the PL and CL both more than once, he's no mug. The only side to be affected adversely by a change is ManYoo. And Liverpool and Everton are suddenly in good form, I didn't see that coming but it's quite a competitive league this year.

There's more work to be done, we need more options up front and although I rate Giroud he's not a striker I can see winning us the title, but we're making progress and that's a good thing.

[Munchies]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6U-3XozszY

Skipping through it, Cazorla at 14:10 with David Silva/Demechelis :haha:

Theo and judas lesbo :ilt:

Kosc getting lesbos shirt at the end :ilt:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

3 goals at City and you can really argue it ought to have been 4 if Giroud's wasn't chalked off. Usually if you score 3 goals away from home and come away with nothing, you are dumbfounded, never mind 4.

[Niall_Quinn]

It’s laughable because you of all people come lumbering in talking about a ‘media agenda’ and ‘support’ for an underperforming player considering the amount of crap you’ve given Walcott and others. Everyone has their favourites and I’m not against player criticism but I’m not buying this ‘media agenda’ stuff and this line.

I wonder if with a bit more support Ramsey would have fought back even sooner?

If a player is playing crap this is the right place to mention it.

Cheers, that clears it up. You were ignoring my argument, inventing an alternative and then knocking it down. As usual.

My argument from the outset has been, let's not write off a player coming back from a serious injury like we wrote off Ramsey. It has nothing to do with criticising (or not criticising) a player when he has a bad game. I have no problems with the latter - except the one you have created out of thin air for me.

[Dein-machine]

It’s normal now to see such a saturation of talent in one team but it wasn’t always normal. Club football has surpassed international football in that regard. You used to have to wait for International tournaments to see some the finest players in the world assembled in one squad but it’s now common place with modern day super clubs. Things were easier for Ozil at Madrid and he didn’t have as much pressure to be that game changer and focal point. Wenger will have to set him a goal target for next season and challenge him to take on more responsibility. If the pass isn’t there he needs to go looking for the goal. Make something special happen.

I don’t even think we need to spend crazy money to get the best out of his passing. We just have the wrong players. Giroud has stopped making intelligent runs into the box and Walcott has hardly played this season. Santi is a good player and could assist Ozil and free up space for him because he’s another ball carrier. We had the same problem when Cesc and Nasri were here and Cesc just started banging in goals. We need a mix where we can develop Ozil into a better player but also have players on the field that can utilises his passing and movement.

Someone of Ozil's quality should be central to do what we do but I seem to see him playing in wide positions. We need him central & further up the pitch with pace & quality around him. We'll get away with Flaminin, Whilshere, Cazorla, Giroud in 80% of the P.L games we play but in the other 20% & for C.L we need to add quality. The simple difference between us & Man City in Saturday was quality in the final 3rd, didn't think they were great defensively but Toure, Fernandinio, Nasri, Silva, Negrado & Aguero all seemed to link well & had the same train of thought. The only one on Ozil's level at the moment is Rambo. I'm afraid Santi could turn out to be another Arshavin & Giroud the French Bendtner. Certainly need Theo to spice things up & hope that Podolski comes back a different player especially with his old mate in the team now.

[Power n Glory]

Cheers, that clears it up. You were ignoring my argument, inventing an alternative and then knocking it down. As usual.

My argument from the outset has been, let's not write off a player coming back from a serious injury like we wrote off Ramsey. It has nothing to do with criticising (or not criticising) a player when he has a bad game. I have no problems with the latter - except the one you have created out of thin air for me.

:lol: There is no invention. I get the main crux of your argument....get behind the players. Very simple. But I couldn't help notice you have another dig at Walcott in the same breath with the 'finally putting in a semi good performance' comment and other digs I mentioned before. I can't take you seriously when you do that and especially with all the past conversations we've had where you've written him off as a footballer. You tried to move the goal posts by making out the digs were related to the contract talks then saw sense and brought it back to his performance for the club. :lol: Walcott and Wilshere's dance in the spotlight as the salvation to Arsenal and England are almost parallel. Bad injuries, hyped up expectations by fans/press/manager and the struggle to live up to that expectation, being played out of position.....it's very similar. As said, you were very dismissive of Walcott before and I sense that old itch is still there so I'm skeptical. You can't blame me. :lol:

Also, I don't think anyone here is writing Wilshere off. At worst, people are saying he's overrated and should be judged on where he's at now. He's doing pants and it needs addressing. If someone in the camp isn't telling him where he's getting it wrong, then he won't get any better regardless of his potential. We don't know what's in store for the kid and someone pointed to Reyes as a cautionary tale. It happens. I think a lot of people confuse criticism with a write off. It's not always case. Just a simple, if a player doesn't start doing X,Y,Z more often and improve in certain areas he won't be world class or fit in to our current set up. Wilshere struggled on the left flank and would probably benefit from playing on the opposite flank or in the middle. It's very similar to what I've argued with you in the past about Walcott not being a winger and more of a Michael Owen/Defoe number 9 type striker. But we move on.

[Power n Glory]

Someone of Ozil's quality should be central to do what we do but I seem to see him playing in wide positions. We need him central & further up the pitch with pace & quality around him. We'll get away with Flaminin, Whilshere, Cazorla, Giroud in 80% of the P.L games we play but in the other 20% & for C.L we need to add quality. The simple difference between us & Man City in Saturday was quality in the final 3rd, didn't think they were great defensively but Toure, Fernandinio, Nasri, Silva, Negrado & Aguero all seemed to link well & had the same train of thought. The only one on Ozil's level at the moment is Rambo. I'm afraid Santi could turn out to be another Arshavin & Giroud the French Bendtner. Certainly need Theo to spice things up & hope that Podolski comes back a different player especially with his old mate in the team now.

Ozil moving out to the flank is how he plays and what he does. He moves wide, he sometimes goes deep or plays as second striker, all in one game. He's never told to stay central or to play wide, he's given freedom and that's how he naturally plays. I think the unorthodox movement means we don't have a talented player in the middle playing on the pivot. Ramsey is a bag of energy and never stays in the centre as the hub so it seems like we're missing a deep laying playmaker.

As for Santi, I think he's having to adjust to life on the left wing. I don't think it suits him in this league even though that's his natural position for Malaga. It's still early though. He's had a slower start than the rest because of injury and fatigue. He won't be an Arshavin. I think he'd be best suited in the middle or when we also have Rosicky playing. It's a hard one because we have so many players that should be playing in the middle.

As for City, their finishing separated us. Very clinical with their chances but a lot of their goals were gifts.

[Munchies]

BOBN is even adding gifs to his repertoire. :bow:

Big fan of BOBN me.

How is BOBN pronounced ?

Bob'on
Bob'en
BeOhBeEn ?

Great poster though, thoroughly needed and always backs his views.

BOBN :bow:

[Penguin]

Cazorla has already proven he can play at a very high level in this league, unlike Arshavin who only ever gave us one great performance. No chance of him 'becoming an Arshavin'.

I'm not sure I like him out wide though, he plays far too deep and central for my liking.

[GP]

How is BOBN pronounced ?

Bob'on
Bob'en
BeOhBeEn ?

Great poster though, thoroughly needed and always backs his views.

BOBN :bow:

Bonbon

[Özim]

I thought this was about Ozil which is bad enough.

Wilshere – oh hell no. That’s just too much of stretch.

Wilshere getting compared to Ronaldinho, Ronaldinho had more talent in one of his shoelaces than Wilshere will ever have :lol:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

The comparison to the buckyoHare is a little unfair. Technically speaking, the Brazilian was out of this world and easily as talented a ball player as I've seen in my lifetime.

Ozil cannot do what Ronaldinho did with a ball, but that won't stop us from recognising Ozil's talents.

Should his attitude be right, I will be amazed if Wilshere does not become a resounding success at club level by the end of his career.

[JonasTC]

No one is comparing Wilshere, Özil & Ronaldinho, since they're 3 very different players. The "comparison" between Wilshere and Ronaldinho was only, that you cannot write a player off at the age of 21.

People only recognize "true" talent as however scores the goals theese days. Sadly it seems like our culture and the average football fan are getting influenced by the american addiction to statistics, years ago nobody really cared about statistics and just looked at however made magic on the football field, now the "worlds best" is just given to however scores the more goals. So if anybody cares about being the best in the world, they should just join the spanish league and tear up all the teams that could hardly do a job in the in the championship.

[Power n Glory]

How did you come to that conclusion? If people were ripping Wilshere and saying he doesn’t score and assist enough goals even though he’s playing well then that’s fair enough. But we were all applauding Wilshere before his injury and he wasn’t racking up goals or assists but you could see the quality. Ross Barkley is earning plaudits in this country as a young talent and he’s hardly racking up goals and assists. I think you’re off the mark with that one.

Also, I think the Spanish league gets unfairly criticised. It’s just poorly financed and unevenly structured. Barca and Real Madrid are way too powerful. I doubt the lower league teams would struggle in the Championship. It’s not that much of a gulf. Their teams usually do well in the Europa Cup and we’ve seen how bad the Prem teams have done. Besides doing well in the European club competitions, the national team has dominated international football for a while now. It’s all too easy to criticise and make out as if the Prem is the best in the world. We don’t export English players because they’re below par, don’t have any top English coaches dominating in other leagues and don’t do well for Internationals.

[JonasTC]

My comment wasnt on Wilshere, but football in general. I agree with everyone that Wilshere isnt playing great at the moment, but im not writting him off like alot of other people on here do. Just like people were writting off Ramsey. (How i love i can use his name like that now :D "Give him a chance, just look at Ramsey!"

You dont see a pattern in the "worlds best" almost always comes out of the easier leagues? You rarely see a winner out of the premier league or the bundesliga who are physical tougher leages to play in. Im not saying Messi isnt a great play, he's amazing, but i dont think he would have won 4 times in a row if he was being kicked in the balls by stoke every week. C.Ronaldo was amazing in the premier league, but dont tell me that after switching to the spanish league that he has doubled his footballing ability like his goalscoring has.

[Power n Glory]

Ronaldo won the Balon d’Or with United when he started scoring like a mad man. 50 goals in one season or something silly. You’d have a point if Messi and Ronaldo weren’t tearing teams up in the Champs League as well. Getting kicked in the balls and all over the park isn’t legal in football and why England do so bad in the tournaments and produced players that are years behind other countries. We look to other continents to provide technical players and it’s why a kid like Cesc can comfortably hold a position at our club at 16 but struggle to get into the Barca fold. It’s not as if all Prem players go over to Spain and start ripping it up. You also have to question why no other leagues are looking to England for players. Not just technical players…tough defenders or central midfield players aren’t even on their radars.

[BOBN]

So if anybody cares about being the best in the world, they should just join the spanish league and tear up all the teams that could hardly do a job in the in the championship.
Unless youre Ozil, who never it double figure in a La Liga :doh:

You know many League goals he got last season against all those pub teams, playing behind a sole striker?..........

..........



.............. 4 :haha:

Best non-imposing, non-scoring attacker in the world.

[JonasTC]

He actually got 9, but i guess its much more fun making up numbers :)

[BOBN]

He actually got 9, but i guess its much more fun making up numbers :)
Ok youre right, I was looking at the season before last.

So 13 goals in 2 seasons. Im very sad about these stats.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

No one is comparing Wilshere, Özil & Ronaldinho, since they're 3 very different players. The "comparison" between Wilshere and Ronaldinho was only, that you cannot write a player off at the age of 21.


So it was a comparison then hey.......

I happen to agree that it is unfair in the circumstances to write off a player at 21.

I was suggesting a comparison between the two players was unfair precisely in the context of trying to marginalise the talents of a 21 year old(and I realise some are and some aren't). In other words I was basically reiterating the line above.

[Letters]

Ok youre right, I was looking at the season before last.

So 13 goals in 2 seasons. Im very sad about these stats.

He's not ever been known as a prolific goal-scorer but I believe his assist stats are the best in Europe over the last 5 years.

[Xhaka Can’t]

He's not ever been known as a prolific goal-scorer but I believe his assist stats are the best in Europe over the last 5 years.

Do you know how many assists he got last season, despite playing in a prolific goalscoring team?..........

..........



..............

6 :haha:

[Letters]

:lol:

Ozil :lol:
Awlful imaginary stats.

[Xhaka Can’t]

:lol:

Ozil :lol:
Awlful imaginary stats.

Dammit!

[LDG]

Dammit!

Only 29 out (club and country)

[Dein-machine]

Jack's lack of form this year is a suprise to sum but not others. We were all pretty pissed off losing Cesc & with our inablity to compete for the best players in the transfer market we looked to Jack as the saviour. Not just us, but the press built him into something that maybe he wasn't. For someone so young to have an immediate impact it is bound to build the reputation he has, especially as he's English & the expectations that come with it. I thought, probably like most of you, that he would return from Summer break a year older/wiser having had more training etc & would be even better, more consistant. The fact is that this year we have Flamini doing his stuff allowing the likes of Rambo & Ozil to show their quality. Maybe Jack simply doesn't look quite so good anymore, especially as he doesn't seem to be acting any wiser & he's style of play will lead to him being injured quite a bit. He showed with his recent performance agianst Marsaille that he can be an Arsenal player but against City he looked like a little boy lost. If we are now in a position to compete with the Mancs & Chelski financially then I can see another couple of quallty midielders coming in to the squad ( Gundagon, Drexler, Bender, Di Maria ), which could result in the loss of another young Englishman that once showed promise.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/17/jack-wilshere-arsenal-manchester-city-fans-middle-finger?CMP=twt_gu

At least the lad shows passion and commitment.

Fuck off FA.

And fuck off just arrived shitty fans.

[Marc Overmars]

There's a fine line between passion and commitment and just utter stupidity.

Unfortunately our Jack is a bit dim.

[Power n Glory]

It makes selection against Chelsea easier.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

What about the paid officials that make stupid decisions and frustrate the hell out of players?

Why aren't they being held accountable for their gross incompetence and blatant acts of corruption? They are not volunteers, so why no accountability on their part?

[Letters]

What about the paid officials that make stupid decisions and frustrate the hell out of players?

Why aren't they being held accountable for their gross incompetence and blatant acts of corruption? They are not volunteers, so why no accountability on their part?

I agree with this, there is no accountability. I remember having this debate with a mate years ago - I said that if refs became professional then they'd be better, obviously if it's their full time job they'd do it better than if it's a part time hobby and it was ridiculous that in such a high profile game the refs were still amateurs. My mate disagreed, he didn't think it would make them better. He was right. I still don't understand why, logically they surely should be better if they're full time, but they're not.


All that said, Jack is a twazzock and none of the above justifies his idiocy. He needs to grow up.

[Power n Glory]

He's lucky to have stayed on the pitch. If they'd have seen it he'd have been given a red so we can't really complain about the ban.

But you have a point about the officials. He's been charged under a new pilot scheme where incidents not seen by the ref are brought before a panel. What about other incidents such as fouls, penalties and wrong calls for offside? Will they bring in cameras to judge on that stuff? I have no idea how linesmen are able enforce the offside law. How are they able to see when a ball is played and when the attacker has strayed behind the defensive line before the ball is played?

[Xhaka Can’t]

There is no point getting angry about it or playing the victim. He or any other player was going to get charged for that. All day long.

He'll be fined and miss a minimum of one match.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

It was wrong, yes. But I can empathise with the lad after being in a rugby setting all game getting fuck all from the officials and shit calls against you.

That said, this might just be a bit of a lesson to him, where he has to learn how to keep a level head whilst facing the greatest of adversity. I still believe he has it in him to be a proper player and leader of our team.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I empathise with how he felt. But yeah, he has to control his emotions better.

[Ollie the Optimist]

stupid from Jack to do that and get himself banned. he's a world class talent but he just needs to control himself at times. i love his passion etc but he just took it a step too far this time.

however, you don't lose 6-3 and claim to be unlucky, if you concede 6, its pretty certain that you deserve to lose but seeing some of those decisions, you have to wonder when the FA will actually stand up and hold referees accountable for their mistakes?

[IBK]

:lol:

Ozil :lol:
Awlful imaginary stats.

But slightly underwhelming so far nonetheless.

[Penguin]

At least we know he wont be playing on the wing against Chelsea :coffee:

[Niall_Quinn]

What about the paid officials that make stupid decisions and frustrate the hell out of players?

Why aren't they being held accountable for their gross incompetence and blatant acts of corruption? They are not volunteers, so why no accountability on their part?

What about the corrupt cunts like Blatter who ru(i)n the game? The whole thing is a loony bin. The fans can scream all sorts of obscenities, the authorities can fill their pockets with all sorts of obscene dodgy dealings, the agents can charge obscene amounts for unsettling players, as stated, the refs and linesmen (who for me have crossed the line from incompetence to outright cheating) are the very definition of obscene.

So it's only right and proper that Jack should be banned for sticking a finger in the air. If we can clean up just this one area of football and make a big deal of it then it'll be that much easier to brush the rest of it under the carpet. Obscene gesture - LOL. It was a token gesture in a sea of obscenities, a teacup in a storm.

By the way, why hasn't he been let off? He's a GHEL is he not? Also, what happened to the "not that type of player" defence? Do you have to break somebody's leg before you can use that one?

But I suppose such a heinous crime against humanity (city gypos?) needs to be stamped on as hard as the untouchable Rooney stamps on his opponents. I suppose the game will be better if this sort of behaviour is kicked out, like Rooney kicks out at his opponents in such a way that only the authorities cannot see him. Rules are rules and it would be wrong to make exceptions, considering crowd safety is an issue here.


Manchester City striker Emmanuel Adebayor has escaped with a suspended two-match ban and a £25,000 fine for his goal celebration in front of Arsenal supporters, after the FA decided he was severely provoked. Adebayor, for whom the fine is equivalent to a day’s wages, sprinted 90 yards before sliding on his knees in front of Arsenal’s travelling fans after scoring a header in City’s 4-2 win last month.

I trust the authorities to do the right thing and dispense justice in a fair and balanced manner - LOL.

[JonasTC]

stupid from Jack to do that and get himself banned. he's a world class talent but he just needs to control himself at times. i love his passion etc but he just took it a step too far this time.

however, you don't lose 6-3 and claim to be unlucky, if you concede 6, its pretty certain that you deserve to lose but seeing some of those decisions, you have to wonder when the FA will actually stand up and hold referees accountable for their mistakes?

I agree that if you concede 6, you deserve to lose. But if a ref takes away 3 goals (2 offsides, 1 pen) from one team in a game, you should lose your job. The linesman who gave city their offside goal and took away 2 non-offside goals away from us, should seriously be sacked and investigated for matchfixing, i'll give you that you can make a mistake once in awhile, but 3 big mistakes in one game? I would get sacked if did that at my job.

[Bumble]

Bendtner was just offside and I know we would be fuming if we conceded a penalty like. Didn't it bounce up off his thigh onto arm.

If people get so angry about officials agents blatter other fans players. Think they need to watch another sport. Football is only a game.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Corruption in Seria A, La Liga and Ligue 1. FACT.

Corruption in English lower league football. FACT.

And people think there isn't corruption in the premier league :haha:

[Xhaka Can’t]

I agree that if you concede 6, you deserve to lose. But if a ref takes away 3 goals (2 offsides, 1 pen) from one team in a game, you should lose your job. The linesman who gave city their offside goal and took away 2 non-offside goals away from us, should seriously be sacked and investigated for matchfixing, i'll give you that you can make a mistake once in awhile, but 3 big mistakes in one game? I would get sacked if did that at my job.

Yeah, but that comes with the territory when you're a heart surgeon.

[Letters]

But slightly underwhelming so far nonetheless.

4 goals and 7 assists in 13 league games.

http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/84775/mesut-%C3%B6zil?cc=5739

It's not bad for a player settling in to a new team and league although I accept in some games he's been a bit anonymous

[JonasTC]

Transfermarkt are giving 8 assists in the league which i trust more >_< Anyway, he might have been a bit anonymous in some games, but so far he is still keeping up his Real Madrid average, which is pretty good considering the things you mention aswell.

[Master Splinter]

It's definitely 7 assists, plus 2 in the CL (versus Napoli and Marseille). They might be counting his parried free-kick against Stoke.

[JonasTC]

I think FA gave him that one aswell? Because he did get 3 assist from that game as far as i remember. But i guess it doesnt mather which one is right, my real point in the comment, was that he's still keeping up is goal/assist pr. game average from Real Madrid :)

[Niall_Quinn]

Bendtner was just offside and I know we would be fuming if we conceded a penalty like. Didn't it bounce up off his thigh onto arm.

If people get so angry about officials agents blatter other fans players. Think they need to watch another sport. Football is only a game.

So it's better to just abandon a sport you've been following for decades than call out an obviously corrupt bloke like Blatter? Or do you deny the latter too, in the interests of keeping your nose pressed to the ground? If everyone used your model to tackle corruption the everything would eventually be corrupt.

[JonasTC]

Bendtner was not offside, danish media made a huge deal about it because he scored vs a big team.

[BOBN]

Do you know how many assists he got last season, despite playing in a prolific goalscoring team?..........

..........



..............

6 :haha:
Hey but whatever you do, dont look at Bergkamps stats.

3 (Three) league goals in 00-01......


.......


......


:sick:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

The ref's may well be incompetent but not corrupt. I that is probably a step too far.

I thought that the pen appeal though we had a case, could have been seen as a harsh decision. It is a fundamental polemic that if you genuinely do not mean to handle the ball with your arm yet stop the ball reaching a player who might score....should it be a pen? I don't know specifically what the rules intimate here but I'm actually undecided.

I thought Bendtner was almost definitely offside, although I haven't watched the Danish' analysis on it! Giroud's I thought was legitimate but a tough call to make.
The two offside attacks that went against us, were easier decisions in my view.

I was interested to note that little has been made of Lukaku being offside in the lead up to Everton's goal the other day. Unless I am missing something which is quite possible....

On Ozil, Wilshere and Cazorla, let's look forward to seeing more from 3 very talented players who's best we have not seen yet. That is a positive. Sooner rather than later though, please. :d

[Marc Overmars]

Wheelchair facing a 2 game ban but he's going to appeal.

[LDG]

Wheelchair facing a 2 game ban but he's going to appeal.

Nice long Christmas break for him then :good:

[Letters]

Yeah, good idea to appeal. It's not like it's on camera or anything.


:doh:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

I think he's only appealing the punishment, not the charge.

[RomfordPele]

So why was it a one match ban for Suarez and a two match ban for jack - identical offences and yet one of them doesn't have a track history of cannabalism.

Have I missed something here or is this the usual incompetent bullshit from the FA?

So basically you can break someone's leg and ruin their career and you get a three match ban plus loads of sympathy in the press. Stick a finger up at a few Neanderthals in the crowd, you get two matches and you're suddenly the unacceptable face of football.

As I say, unless I've missed something this is pathetic, double standards as usual. If I were jack I'd go to the appeal hearing and moon the crooked, jobs-worth bastards. Fuck em.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Reading in the Mail, they say the FA are following a precedent set against Tom Ince, who was given a 2 match ban for a gesture.

You're right though, it is inconsistent. And the FA are twats.

Though if this game was anything to go by, you probably won't miss him much anyway :ninja:

[Niall_Quinn]

All our players should change their name to Wayne Rooney. Simple solution to avoid any further bans regardless of what they do.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I think the name change is a reasonable suggestion. Becoming fat ginger c n u t s is just asking too much of them though.

[-Xs-]

On the plus side, at least it prevents Wenger playing him on the left for Chelsea

[GP]

I don't think he'd be allowed to play on the left for Chelsea anyway.