Match Reaction vs Man City (away).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Good set of tennis.

[Darknight02]

Disappointing performance no doubt about it.

1st Goal - absolute comical error from the immaculate Koscielny - can't stop that.

After that most of the other goals and almost every other chance came from us being ripped apart on that left flank and you have to give Wilshere some stick for adding to that.

Our players were understandable tired. How can they not be after a high energy game on Wednesday night, coming back on Thursday 4am and playing on Saturday morning.

Having said that, we were desperately unlucky with numerous offsides against us, a penalty not given and a disallowed goal.

Our players are looking knackered. We need a top striker in January. Wenger needs to freshen things up.

We can beat almost every other side in this league apart from City and Chelsea.

We've lost today - but its 3 points and we will still be ahead by 2 points even if all other results don't go our way. Wenger needs to remind the players of that.

And the fans need to create one heck of an atmosphere against Chelsea. Win that now and the confidence will be back again in this team.

City are great but we were desperately unlucky.

The most important question now is - hindsight is a great thing. But did we sacrifice midfield security today too much? Wilshere was desperately poor. There's no doubt Walcott should have started as he gives us another striking option and an outlet but should Rosicky have started instead of Wilshere?

Anyway the PL is a marathon and with a weak squad, I suppose we need to give a rest to some players.

Chelsea game crucial now. More for confidence and belief.

[Darknight02]

Heard about some arguing after the final whistle. That's fine. That's what you need in teams - a winners mentality.

But the team spirit has so far been great in this squad. Get pissed off about it for a day and then Wenger needs to get the players back in and get the spirit back.

Come on you Gunners.

[Marc Overmars]

City are too strong, the only hope we have of keeping them at bay is if their dodgy away form continues, otherwise they should comfortably win the league.

Arsenal. :lol:

Way to prove the doubters right.

Hopefully we can bounce back against Chelsea but I fear the wheels are coming off soon enough.

[LDG]

Gifted them four goals. Poor defending.

City are a very good side, but that was just letting them look good.

Very good up top at times today btw. Theo's seconds was lovely.

Plenty more football to be played this season. Hopefully a lesson learned....we need to buy real quality in Jaunary though.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Giroud ain't clinical enough and that's the difference.

In a game of few chances you need to take your chances but we didn't. A top class striker a must.

Navas was outstanding for them. Came off the bench and ripped us apart.

[Letters]

Only saw the 2nd half. Thought we actually played OK. Looked good going forward, lack a real clinical striker and City are just too good going forward. Have to get a result against Chelsea.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

And Monreal is usually so good but was shocking today.

[IBK]

Disappointing performance no doubt about it.

1st Goal - absolute comical error from the immaculate Koscielny - can't stop that.

After that most of the other goals and almost every other chance came from us being ripped apart on that left flank and you have to give Wilshere some stick for adding to that.

Our players were understandable tired. How can they not be after a high energy game on Wednesday night, coming back on Thursday 4am and playing on Saturday morning.

Having said that, we were desperately unlucky with numerous offsides against us, a penalty not given and a disallowed goal.

Our players are looking knackered. We need a top striker in January. Wenger needs to freshen things up.

We can beat almost every other side in this league apart from City and Chelsea.

We've lost today - but its 3 points and we will still be ahead by 2 points even if all other results don't go our way. Wenger needs to remind the players of that.

And the fans need to create one heck of an atmosphere against Chelsea. Win that now and the confidence will be back again in this team.

City are great but we were desperately unlucky.

The most important question now is - hindsight is a great thing. But did we sacrifice midfield security today too much? Wilshere was desperately poor. There's no doubt Walcott should have started as he gives us another striking option and an outlet but should Rosicky have started instead of Wilshere?

Anyway the PL is a marathon and with a weak squad, I suppose we need to give a rest to some players.

Chelsea game crucial now. More for confidence and belief.

I'll go with that to a point. But when all the analysis; all the arguments and regrets are put aside. We are not strong enough. Yet. I will still hope that we can build on an obvious improvement this season. But there has been no fundamental change at AFC for the time being.

[Niall_Quinn]

Having said that, we were desperately unlucky with numerous offsides against us, a penalty not given and a disallowed goal.

Had nothing whatsoever to do with luck. But nothing will be done about it because we've just witnessed a game in "the best league in the world(TM)" - BT Sports gushing - their three monkeys covering their eyes, ears and nose.

[JonasTC]

Horrible ref... 2 goals and a penalty he took away from us, on top of that their were a couple of wrong offsides, that would have given us something dangerous (Monreal in the box who could have given a free Giroud the ball for example). Add citys offside goal and the penalty who shouldn't have been given.

Some really bad mistakes defensively, but with a proper ref, it would have been 6-4 for us. We're still top of the league :bow:

[Letters]

Giroud ain't clinical enough and that's the difference.

In a game of few chances you need to take your chances but we didn't. A top class striker a must.

Navas was outstanding for them. Came off the bench and ripped us apart.
Agree about Giroud. He's good but he's no Aguero, RvP or Suarez.
Out squad depth up front was rather summed up by Bendtner coming off the bench.

[Edinburgh Gooner]

linesmen were atrocious. Definate pen to us for handball, 2 good goals chalked off for nonoffside. Not much else left to say. Great game of football, city sem to score from any half chance they have. I cannot criticise our players bar wilshere.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Agree about Giroud. He's good but he's no Aguero, RvP or Suarez.
Out squad depth up front was rather summed up by Bendtner coming off the bench.

Who also scored a goal that was *offside*.

[milla]

I have mentioned this like a gazillion times, never starts Wilshere in the flank. Either put him in midfield or bench him, he doesn't give anything from a wide area (defensive or offensive).

Giroud has been shit in a few weeks now, finally reached his ceiling IMO. Good striker for 4th place but you will not win the league with him. I have no problem if we start Bendtner against Chelsea next week. I don't care how but Wenger must bring in a new CF to take over from Giroud, I have enough watching him huffing and puffing in the penalty box.

:coffee:

[Özim]

Chelsea will beat us IMO, that's 3 poorish results on the trot now so confidence will be low and the players all look tired already (didn't see today's game but they've looked tired for a couple matches now).

I never felt we'd get anything against City and thought at best we'd get a point against Chelsea so I felt the Everton game was key, sadly we dropped points in that one.

The lack of a quality striker has become apparent recently, whilst Giroud works hard and makes some nice touches he's just not ruthless in front of goal and against the better teams it will show.


Winning big games aren't the be all and end all but what they do give you is momentum and belief.

[IBK]

I have mentioned this like a gazillion times, never starts Wilshere in the flank. Either put him in midfield or bench him, he doesn't give anything from a wide area (defensive or offensive).

Giroud has been shit in a few weeks now, finally reached his ceiling IMO. Good striker for 4th place but you will not win the league with him. I have no problem if we start Bendtner against Chelsea next week. I don't care how but Wenger must bring in a new CF to take over from Giroud, I have enough watching him huffing and puffing in the penalty box.

:coffee:

You only have to look at Aguero; Negredo; Suarez to see that.

[Letters]

Who also scored a goal that was *offside*.

It was offside wasn't it? Anyway. Bentner is 'ok' too but ok doesn't win you the PL.
It's very hard to compee with squads like City and Chelsea but a top class, clinical striker gives you a chance and we don't have one.

[Özim]

Disappointing performance no doubt about it.

1st Goal - absolute comical error from the immaculate Koscielny - can't stop that.

After that most of the other goals and almost every other chance came from us being ripped apart on that left flank and you have to give Wilshere some stick for adding to that.

Our players were understandable tired. How can they not be after a high energy game on Wednesday night, coming back on Thursday 4am and playing on Saturday morning.

Having said that, we were desperately unlucky with numerous offsides against us, a penalty not given and a disallowed goal.

Our players are looking knackered. We need a top striker in January. Wenger needs to freshen things up.

We can beat almost every other side in this league apart from City and Chelsea.

We've lost today - but its 3 points and we will still be ahead by 2 points even if all other results don't go our way. Wenger needs to remind the players of that.

And the fans need to create one heck of an atmosphere against Chelsea. Win that now and the confidence will be back again in this team.

City are great but we were desperately unlucky.

The most important question now is - hindsight is a great thing. But did we sacrifice midfield security today too much? Wilshere was desperately poor. There's no doubt Walcott should have started as he gives us another striking option and an outlet but should Rosicky have started instead of Wilshere?

Anyway the PL is a marathon and with a weak squad, I suppose we need to give a rest to some players.

Chelsea game crucial now. More for confidence and belief.

Not a fan of Wilshere, he gets a free ride from many because he's English and has come through the ranks, but too often he's poor, he has the odd game where he performs but those are few and far between, I personally believe he believes his own hype.

Barkley guy at Everton looks twice the player he is IMO.

[Globalgunner]

Ozil apparently much passed off after the match. We need to improve our options up front or his signing will have been for nothing, just to keep us basically where we have been for the last 8 seasons, almost there.

[Özim]

Giroud ain't clinical enough and that's the difference.

In a game of few chances you need to take your chances but we didn't. A top class striker a must.

Navas was outstanding for them. Came off the bench and ripped us apart.

Always rated Navas, his homesickness use to be a problem but after he got over that he was a player who was always good enough for a top club. Shame we never signed him.

Agree about Giroud, have watched him carefully in recent matches and whilst he works hard and put himself about he's literally no threat to the goal.

[fakeyank]

Cant see us getting a result against Chelsea.

[milla]

And Monreal is usually so good but was shocking today.

Because Jack Wishere done feck all to protect his wing back. But of course Monreal will take the blame, Jack was faultless today. :coffee:

[IBK]

Ozil apparently much passed off after the match. We need to improve our options up front or his signing will have been for nothing, just to keep us basically where we have been for the last 8 seasons, almost there.

I have to disagree. 42M should buy you a game changer. He is simply not making a difference against teams with players of his value. He has lifted the team, but we are entitled to be slightly disappointed in him.

[milla]

Cant see us getting a result against Chelsea.

You could bet your ass that Mourinho already have everything wrapped up for their visit next week. Doesn't take an expert to understand how poor is our wing play. :coffee:

[Niall_Quinn]

Who also scored a goal that was *offside*.

LOL - forgot about that one, yeah, we had so much chalked off it's hard to keep track of it all.

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbdFShkIgAAnWF5.jpg

BFG getting angry at Ozil for not going up to the away fans

[Niall_Quinn]

It was offside wasn't it? Anyway. Bentner is 'ok' too but ok doesn't win you the PL.
It's very hard to compee with squads like City and Chelsea but a top class, clinical striker gives you a chance and we don't have one.

No, it wasn't. It was level. Sometimes you get it, at city you obviously don't. But no such qualms waving on city's second offside goal - that was fine of course.

[milla]

I have to disagree. 42M should buy you a game changer. He is simply not making a difference against teams with players of his value. He has lifted the team, but we are entitled to be slightly disappointed in him.

You can't blame him, playmaker needs movement in front of him. You won't get when your CF and WF is immobile players. Replace Giroud with Aguero and Jack with a real WF and you will get the best out of Ozil. Ozil is never a one man team, he style of play is completely dependent on players in front of him.

[Özim]

Cant see us getting a result against Chelsea.

Me neither, Mourinho is a better tactician that Wenger, Wenger has never beaten him. We're top of the league and yet few really believe we can beat these sides, I think it reflects badly on the manager, what he needs is captains on the pitch like we use to have.

Watching that Vieire Keane thing this week and hearing how he talked made you realise what players like him brought on and off the pitch, Wenger needs players like this in big games.

[Niall_Quinn]

Not a fan of Wilshere, he gets a free ride from many because he's English and has come through the ranks, but too often he's poor, he has the odd game where he performs but those are few and far between, I personally believe he believes his own hype.

Barkley guy at Everton looks twice the player he is IMO.

Wilshere is also shit in goal.

[IBK]

You can't blame him, playmaker needs movement in front of him. You won't get when your CF and WF is immobile players. Replace Giroud with Aguero and Jack with a real WF and you will get the best out of Ozil. Ozil is never a one man team, he style of play is completely dependent on players in front of him. :coffee:

I get you. And I am not blaming the player. He is a player who will bring out the best in real talent. If we don't have the talent to maximise what Ozil does then he was the wrong player to spend 42m on.

[Özim]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbdFShkIgAAnWF5.jpg

BFG getting angry at Ozil for not going up to the away fans

Don't like seeing that to be honest, especially when the player doing it forms part of the defence that conceded 6. I'd be pointing fingers at him saying you guys are hardly shining examples of how to perform.

By all means do it during a match but not afterwards, that's the manager's job.

[Özim]

Wilshere is also shit in goal.

Very true, very overrated English player IMO, he's decent but nothing more. Barkley kid ran rings round him last week and he's younger and less experienced. England should be looking at him as the future of England not Wilshere.

Wilshere puts in far too many sub par performances IMO, he's done very little to warrant the hype about him.

[Munchies]

Video of the BFG and Ozil incident

https://vine.co/v/h2DXPO3LUWp

[milla]

Ozil apparently much passed off after the match. We need to improve our options up front or his signing will have been for nothing, just to keep us basically where we have been for the last 8 seasons, almost there.

We could start with rotation, Ozil can easily replaced by Cazorla in CAM. Not sure why Wumger persist with tired players.

[LDG]

Jack was awful today. Really off the pace.

I do hope he's doing a Ramsey.

Giroud played so well as a link man today, but had two chances to get us in the game.

Whats frustrating is that we're so nearly there...just lacking that extra yard, extra bit of pace, extra bit of luck.

If we spend in january, we'll win the fucker. No doubt in my mind.

[Munchies]

Jack wasn't too bad for me, he still set up Giroud with that chance which he fluffed, and did his best to drive forward.

Got shit towards the end, but thats expected when everyone else has given up

[Edinburgh Gooner]

Should we have had a penalty? In my view, i said straight away it was a pen. The ball travelled a long way before thier player thighed it on to his arm.

[IBK]

We could start with rotation, Ozil can easily replaced by Cazorla in CAM. Not sure why Wumger persist with tired players. :coffee:

Problem is that Cazorla is not on his game. Its funny, but I was happier knowing we had Vermaelen to come on than I would have been with any MF substitution.

[AKBapologist]

Step one - Fail to buy a striker in summer
Step two - Raise ticket prices for aboslutely no reason right before a big game
Step three - Leave Gibbs at home
Step four - Leave Arteta on the bench
Step five - take off our only remaining CDM when we're being dominated via the middle
Step six - have a bunch of blind rejects for officials



All in all, a good game, can't really blame the players too much for that, we SHOULD HAVE SCORED 7 - we don't have a big enough squad and the subs we did make were pretty poor. Hopefully we limp on until the transfer window and wenger pulls something out of the bag on jan 1st.

[Niall_Quinn]

Thought Rosicky was worth a place today, but maybe he doesn't have the energy for it any more. Even so, Wenger's subs looked more desperate than calculated.

[Marc Overmars]

Jack was awful today. Really off the pace.

I do hope he's doing a Ramsey.

Giroud played so well as a link man today, but had two chances to get us in the game.

Whats frustrating is that we're so nearly there...just lacking that extra yard, extra bit of pace, extra bit of luck.

If we spend in january, we'll win the fucker. No doubt in my mind.

You can't knock Bifs link up play and work ethic, but he's not a natural goalscorer. New option in January would be most welcome.

[milla]

Jack wasn't too bad for me, he still set up Giroud with that chance which he fluffed, and did his best to drive forward.

Got shit towards the end, but thats expected when everyone else has given up

Jack was poor, a blind man could see it.

[Özim]

Didn't anyone actually expect us to get anything at City? Can't say I did, it's still disappointing but expected. Condeding 6 goals though is disappointing, you don't concede that many unless your being ripped open like a can of tuna.

[Bumble]

Not then end of the world. we are still top. No point blaming the officials as we get decisions going for us and against us.

We lost and deserved to. We need to work out a way of chasing a game without being too open.

Chelsea next, they aren't strong defensively and they don't have the strikers city have. so fancy we can get away with a bit more at the back.

[Dein-machine]

Happier today then I was on Wednesday when we decided to go to Italy & not play at all. Today just simply proves the difference in quality & strength in the two teams which could do us a favour long term. Hopefully today shows Wumger that we have to buy to improve the quality in Jan.
What could we achieve with the quality of a Zabeleta, control of a Kompany, Strength of a Toure & finishing of Aguero/Negrada.
Toure & Fernandinio bossed the midfield today - they made Flamini look like the free signing he was & Jack like an under 15 schoolboy.
Giroud is quite simply very average, so much so that i doubt whether Bendtner would have been any worse in the last 6/7 games.
But at least we showed a bit of bollocks going forward today against this years Champions - BUY, BUY, BUY Wumger

[Master Splinter]

That was actually dodgier than the 4-4 with Dowd and the 1-3 with Taylor. Will the blatant and constant cheating by officials be mentioned anywhere? It's just farcical.

Crazy game in every respect.

Gibbs badly missed. The defence needs to get focused again for the Christmas fixtures.

Wilshere atrocious. Every bad habit exhibited and exploited.

Giroud's misses unforgivable.

Ramsey very good again. Excellent from Theo.

There's nothing to read from that in terms of the bigger picture other than both teams can score with ease, but one has superior strikers. City are supremely confident and powerful at home, as they have been for the last few years, but that match could have ended 8-7 or 5-7. And that's before you count two goals scandalously ruled out and two positions of promise cancelled out by a linesman's cheating flag.

As long as we regroup and forget this match and we have even a 5% more trustworthy ref, we should be ok for the Chelsea game. With everyone rested and Theo in that form, I can see us putting on a good performance to make up for the last few disappointing results.

[Özim]

Thought Rosicky was worth a place today, but maybe he doesn't have the energy for it any more. Even so, Wenger's subs looked more desperate than calculated.

Always think Rosicky works really hard and gives the midfield more direction. He's a creative player with a tough streak which I kinda like about him, just a shame he has such an appalling injury record.

[Marc Overmars]

Didn't anyone actually expect us to get anything at City? Can't say I did, it's still disappointing but expected. Condeding 6 goals though is disappointing, you don't concede that many unless your being ripped open like a can of tuna.
Half expected a defeat but yeah always disappointing to get smashed, especially when we could have had a few more ourselves.

[milla]

Problem is that Cazorla is not on his game. Its funny, but I was happier knowing we had Vermaelen to come on than I would have been with any MF substitution.

I am not buying Cazorla is off form. Have you heard what Henry said a few days ago? When there were so many players going forward eventually one or two has to stay deeper. In our case, it is Cazorla who makes way for Ozil, Ramsey and Jack to roam freely on the pitch.

[IBK]

Didn't anyone actually expect us to get anything at City? Can't say I did, it's still disappointing but expected. Condeding 6 goals though is disappointing, you don't concede that many unless your being ripped open like a can of tuna.

That sums us up in a nutshell.

[Penguin]

Because Jack Wishere done feck all to protect his wing back. But of course Monreal will take the blame, Jack was faultless today. :coffee:

It's not just Wilshere's fault. Syn was right about Monreal. As a defender you need to be aware of the players around you and the runs they are making. Nacho doesn't have that awareness and even before they scored their first goal he was ball-watching when the ball was on the other flank, leaving their RW free on the right. I was watching him, he didn't even turn once and a good ball in behind him would have left the RW in a great position behind our defence. That's exactly what happened for their second goal.

If you watch Sagna you will always see him looking around to see where their attackers are. That's what I like about him - he's a defender first and foremost and knows what he's doing, unlike any of our other three fullbacks.

[Özim]

Half expected a defeat but yeah always disappointing to get smashed, especially when we could have had a few more ourselves.

This season we've been very good, but on paper perhaps our team lacks enough of those top top players City have, the likes of Kompany, Toure, Aguero, Silva. Add those to top performers like Navas, Zaballeta, Negredo, Nasri (Kolarov is excellent too) and you can see why they are as good as they are.

Think we need one or two more heavyweights, players who believe they can beat anyone, anywhere.

[milla]

Don't like seeing that to be honest, especially when the player doing it forms part of the defence that conceded 6. I'd be pointing fingers at him saying you guys are hardly shining examples of how to perform.

By all means do it during a match but not afterwards, that's the manager's job.

BFG was the captain of the day, it is his job to nail anyone who he thinks stepped over the line or disrespect away fans. Spotted on BFG.

[Alpha]

Congratulations to Manchester City . They were the better team and deserve their win . Not the end of the world as we are still top of the league . Many mistakes were made by Arsenal : sloppy passes , losing the ball in dangerous area , not tracking back when City were charging in our half, not putting our few chances away . The ref. didn't do us a favor with some poor crucial decisions . Wenger made also a killer mistake of substituting Flamini , letting our defense unprotected that was a nail in the coffin . But a fair result should have been a Draw . Let's forget this and move on to the next big game .Very hard but a must-win .

[Özim]

That sums us up in a nutshell.

I agree, being top of the league we should fancy our chances of beating anyone anywhere, I know I did 10 years ago, just don't think we have those characters in the team. We don't have those battle hardened leaders who relish the opportunity to play the best sides, I rather think we go into these games with fear and without the belief we can beat these sides.

[Dein-machine]

Don't like seeing that to be honest, especially when the player doing it forms part of the defence that conceded 6. I'd be pointing fingers at him saying you guys are hardly shining examples of how to perform.

By all means do it during a match but not afterwards, that's the manager's job.

Not at all - Merts has every right to expect his players to thank the fans fot their support & not be ignored by someone who thinks he's better than he is. The lack of midfiled tracking back put a lot of pressure on the defenders today, so I don't agree with your comments. Flamini (3rd goal), Wilshere (5th) goal & Gnabbers (6th) - goals were given away by midfielders poor play.

[fakeyank]

BFG was the captain of the day, it is his job to nail anyone who he thinks stepped over the line or disrespect away fans. Spotted on BFG. :coffee:

BFG is a fucking Pimp... any mother fucker not having it in him to applaud the away fans after that shower of shite deserves to be shat on! Ozil is not bigger than the club and I hope BFG drop kicks him in the dressing room!

[LDG]

You can't knock Bifs link up play and work ethic, but he's not a natural goalscorer. New option in January would be most welcome.

Yeah, agreed.

It's so tough though, as he has been marvelous.

The more I think about today, the more home advantage is crucial. They won't do that to us at home, and I'd back us to put 5 or 6 past them if we can ramp up the pressure.

Glad we have that one out of the way.

We shouldn't be too downhearted. But we must buy in january to have any hope...or at least find a way of balancing the side better....you could see how Theo, Ozil, Giroud etc can exploit a defence, and that is mouthwatering with Chelsea coming up.

Pissed off about Kos being fucked though.

Any news about what happened?

[Özim]

BFG was the captain of the day, it is his job to nail anyone who he thinks stepped over the line or disrespect away fans. Spotted on BFG. :coffee:

During the match yes as it can make a difference to the game and the way a player performs, after the match though it serves no purpose all it does is create a rift.

His defence conceded 6 goals, so he's hardly faultless.

[Niall_Quinn]

This season we've been very good, but on paper perhaps our team lacks enough of those top top players City have, the likes of Kompany, Toure, Aguero, Silva. Add those to top performers like Navas, Zaballeta, Negredo, Nasri (Kolarov is excellent too) and you can see why they are as good as they are.

Think we need one or two more heavyweights, players who believe they can beat anyone, anywhere.

Unfortunately we have to build a team using business methods, it's a big disadvantage compared to comedy clubs like the gypos and chavs. They just steal some more money from their citizens back home, rape and torture a few people and steal their land, etc, and then use the stolen cash to buy who they want. Although to be fair, they have business fronts in place now that make them look respectable - like Al Capone.

[LDG]

This season we've been very good, but on paper perhaps our team lacks enough of those top top players City have, the likes of Kompany, Toure, Aguero, Silva. Add those to top performers like Navas, Zaballeta, Negredo, Nasri (Kolarov is excellent too) and you can see why they are as good as they are.

Think we need one or two more heavyweights, players who believe they can beat anyone, anywhere.

Fuck.

I agree with that.

[Özim]

Not at all - Merts has every right to expect his players to thank the fans fot their support & not be ignored by someone who thinks he's better than he is. The lack of midfiled tracking back put a lot of pressure on the defenders today, so I don't agree with your comments. Flamini (3rd goal), Wilshere (5th) goal & Gnabbers (6th) - goals were given away by midfielders poor play.

From what I heard Wilshere was awful, why was he not having a go at him rather than Ozil then (I haven't seen many comments about Ozil being dreadful), you also pointed out Wilshere was at fault for a goal which Ozil wasn't.

Again though don't agree with doing it after a match, during yes, after no.

[Tipsychubbs]

Very true, very overrated English player IMO, he's decent but nothing more. Barkley kid ran rings round him last week and he's younger and less experienced. England should be looking at him as the future of England not Wilshere.

Wilshere puts in far too many sub par performances IMO, he's done very little to warrant the hype about him.

He's missed 18 months of football so it'll take him a while, just like Ramsey. I agree that wenger shouldn't be starting him though, and was disappointed he started such a big game.

[fakeyank]

From what I heard Wilshere was awful, why was he not having a go at him rather than Ozil then (I haven't seen many comments about Ozil being dreadful), you also pointed out Wilshere was at fault for a goal which Ozil wasn't.

Again though don't agree with doing it after a match, during yes, after no.

Probably because Wilshere was up there with the rest of the team applauding the fans while Ozil was strolling back to the dressing room.

[milla]

It's not just Wilshere's fault. Syn was right about Monreal. As a defender you need to be aware of the players around you and the runs they are making. Nacho doesn't have that awareness and even before they scored their first goal he was ball-watching when the ball was on the other flank, leaving their RW free on the right. I was watching him, he didn't even turn once and a good ball in behind him would have left the RW in a great position behind our defence. That's exactly what happened for their second goal.

If you watch Sagna you will always see him looking around to see where their attackers are. That's what I like about him - he's a defender first and foremost and knows what he's doing, unlike any of our other three fullbacks.

Most of the Citeh attacks on the right came through Zabaleta, that was Jack's duty. You can't expect Monreal to leave a big gap between himself and our CBs, especially when Citeh's midfields were playing so narrowly. I saw the same problem with Jack against Everton, he just didn't have the nous or disciplines to play on the wing. As a result who ever is covering will be left facing 2 players on thier own, today it was Monreal. :coffee:

[Özim]

Unfortunately we have to build a team using business methods, it's a big disadvantage compared to comedy clubs like the gypos and chavs. They just steal some more money from their citizens back home, rape and torture a few people and steal their land, etc, and then use the stolen cash to buy who they want. Although to be fair, they have business fronts in place now that make them look respectable - like Al Capone.

Yes and no, sure they have an advantage but we also have chosen to sign the players we have, we've shown by signing Ozil that if we want to we can go after top quality, we just haven't. I think it shown in big games, let's not forget we use to have a team capable of taking on anyone, it's also the type of players we sign.....where is our Yaya Toure who basically leads and runs the midfield, where our Aguero (oh yeah we sold him to Man U).

[IBK]

He's missed 18 months of football so it'll take him a while, just like Ramsey. I agree that wenger shouldn't be starting him though, and was disappointed he started such a big game.

Bottom line. Wilshere is not a game changer. But he is in a team where despite the talent is crying out for one.

[AKBapologist]

Ozil made a poor pass across the face of the goal that lead to flamini being unable to control it.

Either way, the entire midfield had a shocker.

[Letters]

This season we've been very good, but on paper perhaps our team lacks enough of those top top players City have, the likes of Kompany, Toure, Aguero, Silva. Add those to top performers like Navas, Zaballeta, Negredo, Nasri (Kolarov is excellent too) and you can see why they are as good as they are.

Think we need one or two more heavyweights, players who believe they can beat anyone, anywhere.
Pretty much agree but City are where they are solely because of a sugar daddy throwing money at them. Same with Chelsea. If they beat us it'll be because of their expensively assembled squad, not because of any tactical genius.
We'recheading in the right direction but there's a way to go and it's difficult to see how we can ever compete with City of Chelsea while they're bankrolled like this. Utd did but only 'cos Fergie's a genius as has been shown by how they're doing now.

[milla]

During the match yes as it can make a difference to the game and the way a player performs, after the match though it serves no purpose all it does is create a rift.

His defence conceded 6 goals, so he's hardly faultless.

What rift? At £140k a week, he should be able to take all kind of abuse from inside or outside the team. He disrespect those who paid his wages, he deserved it. :coffee:

[LDG]

Can't wait for Wilshere to do a Ramsey next year :lol:

Jeez. It astounds me that people don't get that he will be a game changing super player.

He was shit today mind.

[Darknight02]

Re Wilshere. His best position is as a deep lying midfielder. That's where he played all through his debut coming of age season. It's really annoying but you could see him getting better game after game with more experience in that position.

He is just not good enough to play any other role such as attacking playmaker or wing player or 2nd striker. The sad thing is the injury came at the wrong time for him and now he's been playing in so many different positions none of which are suited to him. In that way it's Wengers fault for playing him in all these other positions. AW keeps still saying that his best position is as a deep lying midfielder.

I know it's a long time ago but that game against Barca in that position was an astonishing performer. The maturity and control on that game from that position. That's where he's best utilised and that's where he needs to play. He'll be awful anywhere else.

Ozil is not a player who can win games by himself. He needs good players around him to utilise his talents fully and unfortunately we just don't have enough.

What is our best team? I'm all for rotation but what is the best side we have. For me it still is Ozil, Walcott, Cazorla or Rosicky on the flank with Ramsey and Flamini. Wilshere should replace Ramsey or not play at all. We desperately need another quality striker and strong wing players.

Anyway when all is said and done, you need consistency to win the league. It is imperative that heads don't drop and the fans and Wenger gets these players absolutely in top confidence mentally agains the Chavs. Win that and we are flying again. For all the atrocity of today were still top of the league and that's what consistency buys you .

[Özim]

Probably because Wilshere was up there with the rest of the team applauding the fans while Ozil was strolling back to the dressing room.

After losing 6-3 you should be downbeat, he's use to winning after all.

Yeah Wilshere went and applauded the fans, sounds like he couldn't be arsed to track back during the match to stop City attacks though which to me as a fan is more important than some meaningless applause after getting soundly beaten.

[Dein-machine]

From what I heard Wilshere was awful, why was he not having a go at him rather than Ozil then (I haven't seen many comments about Ozil being dreadful), you also pointed out Wilshere was at fault for a goal which Ozil wasn't.

Again though don't agree with doing it after a match, during yes, after no.

Erm...... because Wilshere did go to thak the fans. Infact he threw his shirt into the crowd. Pity the por bastard who caught it, if he puts it on he'll immediatly fall to the ground & take 5 minutes to get up.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes and no, sure they have an advantage but we also have chosen to sign the players we have, we've shown by signing Ozil that if we want to we can go after top quality, we just haven't. I think it shown in big games, let's not forget we use to have a team capable of taking on anyone, it's also the type of players we sign.....where is our Yaya Toure who basically leads and runs the midfield, where our Aguero (oh yeah we sold him to Man U).

You conveniently overlook the fact we have Diaby.

[Özim]

What rift? At £140k a week, he should be able to take all kind of abuse from inside or outside the team. He disrespect those who paid his wages, he deserved it. :coffee:

When players argue it causes rifts, never good for team spirit.

[Letters]

During the match yes as it can make a difference to the game and the way a player performs, after the match though it serves no purpose all it does is create a rift.

His defence conceded 6 goals, so he's hardly faultless.

There are ways of conducting yourself and whatever the result you go and thank the fans for their support - they've given up their day to travel and watch you, they're paying your salary and if you've just got thumped they deserve your thanks even more than if you'd won. BFG was right IMO, it's not ideal for it to happen in public as it gives the media twinta ammo but football is an emotional game and these things will happen.

How either player played is immaterial

[Özim]

Erm...... because Wilshere did go to thak the fans. Infact he threw his shirt into the crowd. Pity the por bastard who caught it, if he puts it on he'll immediatly fall to the ground & take 5 minutes to get up.

Shame he couldn't be bothered to put a shift in where it really matters during the match eh (that's what I'm hearing from today's comments, he wasn't tracking back or helping)? So he throws his shirt in the crowd and thanks them, would you rather see a player do his job on the pitch or play like sh*t and thank you at the end?

[Letters]

When players argue it causes rifts, never good for team spirit.
Have you ever played football? Players have rows in the heat of the moment all the time. It rarely causes rifts.

[Munchies]

Koscielny's knee laceration:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbdKpXOCUAA48ZL.jpg

[Dein-machine]

Can't wait for Wilshere to do a Ramsey next year :lol:

Jeez. It astounds me that people don't get that he will be a game changing super player.

He was shit today mind.

I would like to believe this & I thnk I did but now I'm thinking that Jack will never have Ramsey's engine or burst of pace which may stop the kind of progress we've seen with Ramsey. Hope I'm wrong but its what is required to be a top class midfielder.

[Özim]

There are ways of conducting yourself and whatever the result you go and thank the fans for their support - they've given up their day to travel and watch you, they're paying your salary and if you've just got thumped they deserve your thanks even more than if you'd won. BFG was right IMO, it's not ideal for it to happen in public as it gives the media twinta ammo but football is an emotional game and these things will happen.

How either player played is immaterial

Personally after a big defeat I want them to head straight for the dressing room for a grilling from the manager for an hour, to let them know it's unacceptable. I get what you're saying but when a player doesn't put a shift in during the match thanking doesn't really make up for it.

I don't think players always go and thank fans anyhow.

[milla]

When players argue it causes rifts, never good for team spirit.

I stand with what I said. Ozil deserved it :coffee:

[milla]

Koscielny's knee laceration:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbdKpXOCUAA48ZL.jpg

Well that would take more than a few days to fix.

[IBK]

Pretty much agree but City are where they are solely because of a sugar daddy throwing money at them. Same with Chelsea. If they beat us it'll be because of their expensively assembled squad, not because of any tactical genius.
We'recheading in the right direction but there's a way to go and it's difficult to see how we can ever compete with City of Chelsea while they're bankrolled like this. Utd did but only 'cos Fergie's a genius as has been shown by how they're doing now.

I tend to agree, but spending 42M on one player, and being the only top team in the league with managerial continuity means that we don't have that much moral high ground left on that score.

[Özim]

Have you ever played football? Players have rows in the heat of the moment all the time. It rarely causes rifts.

You don't usually see it after a match to be honest, I also don't think you see it that often, when was the last time you saw it?

[milla]

You don't usually see it after a match to be honest, I also don't think you see it that often, when was the last time you saw it?

You see it all the time Zim. Especially when everything is boiling hot. :doh:

[Dein-machine]

Shame he couldn't be bothered to put a shift in where it really matters during the match eh (that's what I'm hearing from today's comments, he wasn't tracking back or helping)? So he throws his shirt in the crowd and thanks them, would you rather see a player do his job on the pitch or play like sh*t and thank you at the end?

No one played very well today, Jack was crap, Ozil was crap, Flamini was crap, Monreal was crap, Giroud was crap but ALL THE OTHERS WENT TO THANK THE FANS which is what the bust up was about. Let me know if there is still something you don't understand.

[Letters]

Personally after a big defeat I want them to head straight for the dressing room for a grilling from the manager for an hour, to let them know it's unacceptable. I get what you're saying but when a player doesn't put a shift in during the match thanking doesn't really make up for it.

I don't think players always go and thank fans anyhow.
They pretty much always do, especially for away games to show appreciation to the fans who have travelled to support you.
IMO it's more important when you've just lost.

[Niall_Quinn]

I tend to agree, but spending 42M on one player, and being the only top team in the league with managerial continuity means that we don't have that much moral high ground left on that score.

It has taken 8 years of transfer window profits to scrape together that 42mill - long way from splashing 30mill and sitting the player on a bench for a year then paying him to leave.

[Özim]

I would like to believe this & I thnk I did but now I'm thinking that Jack will never have Ramsey's engine or burst of pace which may stop the kind of progress we've seen with Ramsey. Hope I'm wrong but its what is required to be a top class midfielder.

I might be in the minority but I just don't see the superstar potential in this guy, plus he seems to have got lazier since his early days. He is quite often a liability on the pitch these days.

Can't way for Ox to return, this guy has potential hopefully he can realise it.

[Letters]

I tend to agree, but spending 42M on one player, and being the only top team in the league with managerial continuity means that we don't have that much moral high ground left on that score.
We spent £42m of our OWN money. Money earned from previous success on the pitch.
We haven't spunked half a billion quid of some sugar-daddy's money to buy our way to the top.

[IBK]

It has taken 8 years of transfer window profits to scrape together that 42mill - long way from splashing 30mill and sitting the player on a bench for a year then paying him to leave.

OK - but if we are to be judged against the best teams them we need to put the excuses away.

[Niall_Quinn]

OK - but if we are to be judged against the best teams them we need to put the excuses away.

I would like to be judged against the best teams - but try getting the refs to play along.

[Letters]

OK - but if we are to be judged against the best teams them we need to put the excuses away.

It's hardly an excuse. Money and success are highly correlated in today's game, we have a lot of money which is earned from previous successes, so to ManYoo.
Two billionaire's have come along and spent and spent until their sides have become successful.
It's not an 'excuse' that we're struggling to compete with them. ManYoo only did because they had Fergie. Now they don't and they're struggling too.

[Burley Gooner]

Completely agree with darknight02!!!

[Dein-machine]

Chamack's scored again - thats were our problems lie

[Burley Gooner]

Giroud not even in the top 15 best strikers in Europe. That's where our problem lie

[milla]

Chamack's scored again - thats were our problems lie

Pulis and Chamack are perfect match IMO.

[Power n Glory]

We bottled that game. 6-3 isn't a respectable score when you're top of the league. If it wasn't for Walcott, the score would have looked far worse. We gifted them so many goals. Unbelievable! You expect a better performance from league leaders. The team has a soft belly. City were clinical but we made them look a lot better with the poor defending and passing.

[Niall_Quinn]

Milner was clinical in the box, he is starting to make Youngy look like an amateur.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Mertesacker is no Arsenal man, not an Englishman and is Ozil's countryman and team mate and yet he didn't hesitate to put Ozil in his place. I'm glad Mertesacker nailed Ozil....particularly in full view of the fans. Wenger isn't going to lay into him.

I am rather surprised anyone at any point doubted the idea we would need a world class forward/top top forward to be really and truly competitive. Giroud missed chances he absolutely just has to take in a game like this. I thought his ruled out goal was a close call but I thought Bendtner's was offside for my money.

Ramsey was superb and doesn't allow himself to get harried and caught in midfield unlike the rest of them. Wilshere was found wanting numerous times and I don't think Flamini covered himself in glory either.

One of the few positives was that Theo is back, playing and scoring and even looked our most threatening player. Fancy that. Nobody would have ever have guessed Theo would be a threat to a team that likes to attack. Maybe we should play him more.

I was annoyed by how determined we were to make Nasri look like Messi.


I asked a while ago how our best midfield 3 compared to Fernandinho, Yaya and Silva. Someone slagged Fernandinho right off in that debate. I guess Fernandinho he is a poster on here then.

[Globalgunner]

We really should have tried to get Luis Gustavo from Bayern. Flamini has improved us but without him we have a soft midfield. Yaya was just tearing though us with players hanging off him like leaves off a branch. ramsey was the only player who played with distinction along with Walcott and Ozil did his job as a playmaker. Our strikers are just so average. Wilshere should have come off for Rosicky when Flamini was sunbstituted too.

[JonasTC]

Why are people writting us off? If it hadnt been for a corrupt ref, we would have won this match, despite most of our players had a bad day. City didnt create any of their goals, we (and the ref) gave them their goals, City didnt give us anything but we still managed to score 5 goals and a penalty + 2 huge chances taken away from us. I would say thats pretty promising.

Nice to have Walcott back and hopefully Wenger will start playing him on the left after his awesome goal.

[Dein-machine]

Why are people writting us off? If it hadnt been for a corrupt ref, we would have won this match, despite most of our players had a bad day. City didnt create any of their goals, we (and the ref) gave them their goals, City didnt give us anything but we still managed to score 5 goals and a penalty + 2 huge chances taken away from us. I would say thats pretty promising.

Nice to have Walcott back and hopefully Wenger will start playing him on the left after his awesome goal.

Applaud your enthusiasm but City could have got double figures to be fair. They're the best team we'll play & they have a fantastic attack. Their quality means they will score a goal in every 3 or 4 chances. Our ratio would be one in 10 because of our lack of quality upfront. Until we address this we will not beat the better teams.

[Power n Glory]

Why are people writting us off? If it hadnt been for a corrupt ref, we would have won this match, despite most of our players had a bad day. City didnt create any of their goals, we (and the ref) gave them their goals, City didnt give us anything but we still managed to score 5 goals and a penalty + 2 huge chances taken away from us. I would say thats pretty promising.

Nice to have Walcott back and hopefully Wenger will start playing him on the left after his awesome goal.

It looks like we're buckling and that's why we're being written off. We drop points against Everton, failed to respond in the CL and now have a difficult draw and then to make it worse, we gifted City some very soft goals. Complain about the officials, but when you gift the opposition so many goals and looks so shaky after two very disappointing results, you have to worry about the mental strength of this group.

[JonasTC]

Lets not make City better than they are, they've already lost to some pretty bad teams. We've lost 3 times, 2 of those times against a corrupt ref and 1 time on Old Trafford, wouldn't really call that the end of the world.

[Power n Glory]

Good to see Walcott back. Even further proof that he needs to play upfront. He has that strikers instinct. The first goal was difficult but executed to perfection. He's pelting into the box with pace but manages to open his body up to side foot it into the opposite corner with the ball skimming pass the City players and keeper rooted. The 2nd was just class. Bends it into the far corner with ease. Big game player.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Watched the game till about the 75th minute, after which I had to take care of some stuff. What struck me......again, is just how weak we are defensively on that left flank. Both options we have at LFB are a bit of a joke when it comes on to awareness and closing down players making runs. Doesn't help either that we don't have a proper left midfielder offering much in that defensive role either.

At the other end, a top striker is a must if we're ever serious about winning this league. Yes, Giroud is awesome at link up play and holding up the ball, but that should be more of an added attribute to a lethal striker. Our inaction and outright failure to address such a glaring weakness over the summer has well and truly bitten us in the arse. Shitty scored a ton, but they were very open at the back and were there for the taking. We should have reached4 goals before they did in that 2nd half.

A very depressing and embarrassing result, one which could rob us of every bit of confidence we had a only a few weeks back. Really hoping the boys can bounce back against the chavs next game. Win that, and we'll probably get our good run of form back on track.

#COYG :scarf:

[Power n Glory]

Lets not make City better than they are, they've already lost to some pretty bad teams. We've lost 3 times, 2 of those times against a corrupt ref and 1 time on Old Trafford, wouldn't really call that the end of the world.

Everton was a tougher game in my opinion but we lost 6-3 to City so what does that say? I never expected that sort of margin.

[Dein-machine]

Everton was a tougher game in my opinion but we lost 6-3 to City so what does that say? I never expected that sort of margin.

Everton had no cutting edge - City look like they could score every they went forward. Remember they did this without Aguero for the 2nd half.

[Dein-machine]

Watched the game till about the 75th minute, after which I had to take care of some stuff. What struck me......again, is just how weak we are defensively on that left flank. Both options we have at LFB are a bit of a joke when it comes on to awareness and closing down players making runs. Doesn't help either that we don't have a proper left midfielder offering much in that defensive role either.

At the other end, a top striker is a must if we're ever serious about winning this league. Yes, Giroud is awesome at link up play and holding up the ball, but that should be more of an added attribute to a lethal striker. Our inaction and outright failure to address such a glaring weakness over the summer has well and truly bitten us in the arse. Shitty scored a ton, but they were very open at the back and were there for the taking. We should have reached4 goals before they did in that 2nd half.

A very depressing and embarrassing result, one which could rob us of every bit of confidence we had a only a few weeks back. Really hoping the boys can bounce back against the chavs next game. Win that, and we'll probably get our good run of form back on track.

#COYG :scarf:

Agree about the left hand side - especially at LB but I'm not getting this thing about Giroud linking play well, he loses the ball 80% of the time, passing is woeful.

[Power n Glory]

Everton had no cutting edge - City look like they could score every they went forward. Remember they did this without Aguero for the 2nd half.

It's true. We gifted City too many goals. It was clinical but it's not as if they bossed us off the park and then shut up shop. It was a really bad performance from our boys. Messing up simple passes and getting the basics so wrong. Wenger will have to have a word with his players.

[fakeyank]

4th place trophy still in sight. What u lot complaining about??

Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

[Grebbo]

Lost to a better team, mustn't dwell on it. This squad has over-performed so far, we're at least two world class players short for a title challenge.

City have an abundance of riches. If they sort out their defence then they'll comfortably be champions.

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbeBPmICQAARZMY.png:large
https://www.facebook.com/mesutoezil

Not as big of a deal as it was made out to be, but good on him.

[Özim]

He's a winner and was upset by the defeat (winners are bad losers), some of the others aren't hence the reason they probably weren't too upset.

[IBK]

We bottled that game. 6-3 isn't a respectable score when you're top of the league. If it wasn't for Walcott, the score would have looked far worse. We gifted them so many goals. Unbelievable! You expect a better performance from league leaders. The team has a soft belly. City were clinical but we made them look a lot better with the poor defending and passing.

Yes. Honesty FTW.

[Özim]

He's at it with his immature behaviour again:


Jack Wilshere may have to accept ban for gesture - Arsene Wenger

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger admitted Jack Wilshere may have to accept a ban for an apparent abusive hand gesture.

Television pictures appeared to show the Gunners midfielder, 21, raising a finger towards the crowd during the 6-3 defeat at Etihad Stadium.

The Football Association will await referee Martin Atkinson's official report before deciding whether to review the incident or not.

"If he did it and he is banned then we will have to accept it," Wenger said.

"I don't know if he did it."

Liverpool striker Luis Suarez was suspended for one match, fined £20,000 and warned as to his future conduct after admitting an A charge of improper conduct in 2011.

Suarez, 26, raised the middle finger of his left hand as he walked off the pitch following a 1-0 defeat at Fulham.

Wilshere appeared to raise a finger towards the crowd on 68 minutes after disagreeing with a decision to award City a goal kick.

Former Arsenal defender Martin Keown, talking on BBC One's Final Score programme, said: "It's unfortunate that Jack Wilshere is involved in that sort of thing, and Wenger is right - it needs to be stamped on. We don't want that.

"We don't want Jack to go over the line. He is representing Arsenal and you have to remember who you are and what you are at all times."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25382638

Here he is:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bbc7DrSIEAAKlOY.jpg:large

[Letters]

He's a winner and was upset by the defeat (winners are bad losers), some of the others aren't hence the reason they probably weren't too upset.
Yes. Them going to the crowd to thank them for their support shows they weren't upset by the result. You've previously chastised Wenger (with some justification) for poor sportsmanship and never once defended him along the same lines as you're defending Ozil. You constantly move the goalposts and change your arguments to suit your anti-Wenger and anti-Arsenal agenda.

You really do love it when we fail and revel in every bit of negative news. Weird behaviour for a so-called fan.

[Özim]

Yes. Them going to the crowd to thank them for their support shows they weren't upset by the result.

You really do love it when we fail.

It's not really your first thought when you've just lost 6-3 to be honest, you'd just want to get out of there.

What's that got to do with me liking us failing?

[Letters]

It's not really your first thought when you've just lost 6-3 to be honest
It was every other player's first thought and some of those players have won titles elsewhere so you can't accuse them of not being winners. Ozil himself has now acknowledged he should have gone over to the fans.

[fakeyank]

Ozil was at fault. I don't see the argument here. BFG is a thug.. u don't mess with a G

Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

[Munchies]

First time in a while I've seen BFG cost us a goal, he didn't do too well on Silva's goal. Verm should of dealt with the cross in the first place.

Kosc is out for a few weeks now .

[BOBN]

Im glad weve established that Walcott is our only offensive player of an real consequence.

Now lets build a team around him.

[Globalgunner]

I just hope the club management will step back from offering Wenger another deal just yet. Why not wait till the end of the year?. Another big match, another big fail. Are we going to condemn our club to another 3 years of the same thing. Permanent stasis. Fundamentally, nothing has changed with this man and this team. We are not the Spuds, we should not take humiliation in our stride. When was the last time that we, Arsenal, defeated any of the top teams in England by putting 4, 5 or 6 past them, we just cant do it. Yet we regularly take such pastings at least once each season. The man has reached his ceiling, did so about 10 years ago.

I just hope the Kos injury , just like the Gibbs one last year will make him search the market for another top defender. Vermaelen may have a Ramsey type renaissance, but I wouldn't like to bet on it.

[Bumble]

We have put five past spurs a couple of times recently although you did say top team.

[Letters]

I just hope the club management will step back from offering Wenger another deal just yet. Why not wait till the end of the year?. Another big match, another big fail. Are we going to condemn our club to another 3 years of the same thing. Permanent stasis. Fundamentally, nothing has changed with this man and this team. We are not the Spuds, we should not take humiliation in our stride. When was the last time that we, Arsenal, defeated any of the top teams in England by putting 4, 5 or 6 past them, we just cant do it. Yet we regularly take such pastings at least once each season. The man has reached his ceiling, did so about 10 years ago.

I just hope the Kos injury , just like the Gibbs one last year will make him search the market for another top defender. Vermaelen may have a Ramsey type renaissance, but I wouldn't like to bet on it.
You seriously don't see any improvement from last year?

Last year at this stage:
W6 D6 L4 F26 A16 Pts 24

Now:
W11 2 L3 F33 A17 Pts 35

[Nayan]

we're still good value for third, maybe second. Nothings changed.
we've been tired for a while now and were particularly jaded after our midweek exertions. The squad is decent but not strong enough for the title given City's resources

[Letters]

we're still good value for third, maybe second. Nothings changed.
Nothing's changed from last year when most of us didn't believe we'd finish in the top 4 and most of us weren't enjoying the football?
Nothing?

[Grebbo]

My biggest worry is we're finding it so difficult to control the midfield against half decent opposition. We can't keep the ball for more than 5 minutes and the opposite used to be our strength. Man U away, Everton, City yesterday etc. We need someone like Cesc who'd you'd just give the ball to and he'd keep it. None of our midfielders seem to be able to do that - not even Ozil. Controlling the midfield keeps the pressure off the defence and allows the forwards to make runs. It's the most important thing in football.

Jack might still develop into that player but it's another case of waiting for a player to develop and we all know what that means. As for Jack, he didn't play well yesterday, gave the ball away a lot, but he still should have had two assists if Giroud did better and the handball was given. He almost scored as well. He's missed a lot of football and is still learning the game at this level, in his position you need rhythm and he just hasn't been able to gain any real momentum. I'm not worried at all about him, he's top class when on form.

[AFC Leveller]

City were the better team on the day and could have scored more than 6.

However, were always in the game, even at 4-2 with 20 minutes to go. We seemed to stop though due to tiredness/fatigue and City just passed it around us with ease. as many have pointed out, we had 3-4 big decisions go against us and when you add the sloppyness and mistakes, it was always gonna be tough.

Theo was our best player i thought, gave us penetration and pace and could have had a hatrick. jack was our worst player IMO, the amound of times he lost the ball was shocking, he didnt track back all day and Zabaleta gave him a torrid time. He lost him for the 2nd goal, and gave the ball away for their 6th not to mention the amount of times he lost posession in the first half.

Giroud will never be the goal machine but what he offers us is priceless and i think he was good yesterday. he wins just about every long ball/pass to him and his passes/flicks tend to find an arsenal man more often than not. He was blunt on a couple of occasions when put through but overall i think he was one of our better players.

Ozil produced one or two moments of real genius and put theo through with a lovely pass but i thought he could have done more.

Worrying signs over the defence in the last couple of games. I dont think we've looked as assured and comfortable as we did in the first 10-12 games and with chelsea coming up, we need to tighten up and not let the old game creep back in. Players are understandaly tired and we are paying the price for having a smallish squad.

A big win against Chelsea is absoloutely KEY. a draw is not good enough (even though it would put us level with City assuming they win).

[Power n Glory]

Jack needs to hold a bench. He's been terrible and shouldn't be allowed to play until he sorts his game out. When he reaches his potential and starts performing he'll get all the plaudits but until then he should get treated like every other player. No excuse for that performance!

He should have been benched for Cazorla early on in the 2nd half. No idea what Wenger was thinking starting Jack on the left over Rosicky as well. We have plenty of options and Wenger made some very poor subs. That also needs to be sorted because he got it right against Everton.

[LDG]

My biggest worry is we're finding it so difficult to control the midfield against half decent opposition. We can't keep the ball for more than 5 minutes and the opposite used to be our strength. Man U away, Everton, City yesterday etc. We need someone like Cesc who'd you'd just give the ball to and he'd keep it. None of our midfielders seem to be able to do that - not even Ozil. Controlling the midfield keeps the pressure off the defence and allows the forwards to make runs. It's the most important thing in football.

Jack might still develop into that player but it's another case of waiting for a player to develop and we all know what that means. As for Jack, he didn't play well yesterday, gave the ball away a lot, but he still should have had two assists if Giroud did better and the handball was given. He almost scored as well. He's missed a lot of football and is still learning the game at this level, in his position you need rhythm and he just hasn't been able to gain any real momentum. I'm not worried at all about him, he's top class when on form.

Top posting.

It was exactly the problem yesterday, with the difference between the Everton and Utd games being that we were never really under much pressure on the ball. We just passed poorly, and didn't move for each other.

I couldn't believe the amount of possession we gifted away. And it started 15 seconds in when Monreal gave it inexplicably to a City player, and that was us under the hammer for 10 minutes.

We went to pieces yesterday.

:banghead:

[AFC Leveller]

Top posting.

It was exactly the problem yesterday, with the difference between the Everton and Utd games being that we were never really under much pressure on the ball. We just passed poorly, and didn't move for each other.

I couldn't believe the amount of possession we gifted away. And it started 15 seconds in when Monreal gave it inexplicably to a City player, and that was us under the hammer for 10 minutes.

We went to pieces yesterday.

:banghead:

Me to re giving the ball away. We gave it to them every couple of minutes.

[Grebbo]

Jack needs to hold a bench. He's been terrible and shouldn't be allowed to play until he sorts his game out. When he reaches his potential and starts performing he'll get all the plaudits but until then he should get treated like every other player. No excuse for that performance!

He's not going to find any form if you bench him. If anything he needs to be played more but Wenger's scared of his ankle. We all said the above about Ramsey last season - do you think if we'd of benched him he'd have turned out as good as he is now? Ramsey is now a £30m player. Jack has shown how brilliant he is when on form. As a club we either play these inconsistent youngsters hoping they come good or we go out and buy the finished article.


He should have been benched for Cazorla early on in the 2nd half. No idea what Wenger was thinking starting Jack on the left over Rosicky as well. We have plenty of options and Wenger made some very poor subs. That also needs to be sorted because he got it right against Everton.

Cazorla has been terrible this season. Worse than Jack.

[Grebbo]

Top posting.

It was exactly the problem yesterday, with the difference between the Everton and Utd games being that we were never really under much pressure on the ball. We just passed poorly, and didn't move for each other.

I couldn't believe the amount of possession we gifted away. And it started 15 seconds in when Monreal gave it inexplicably to a City player, and that was us under the hammer for 10 minutes.

We went to pieces yesterday.

:banghead:

It's very worrying. I thought we'd made it part of our tactics to let the lesser opposition have possession in midfield and we just counter attack them, the idea being that otherwise the opposition just get 10 men behind the ball and defend. Now the evidence suggests we are simply finding it very difficult to control the midfield. You can probably count the number of games we've dominated midfield this season on one hand.

[Power n Glory]

We haven't got time for that. Keep giving him games until he gets better? Would you say the same for Bendy?

Cazorla hasn't had a great start to the season but be doesn't lose the ball as frequently as Jack. Wenger should have taken Jack off for either Cazorla or Rosicky. We've got no time to be sentimental. I know most of you wouldn't suggest the same for a player like Bendy or when we had Gervinho so why Jack?

[AFC Leveller]

Can anyone tell me how many games has Jack played in his actuall position? he's either played wide right or left and that does him no favours. he cant beat the FB and doesnt track back so why is he being played there regularely? Jack's strength is gliding past players, moving the bal forward and that lovely drop of the shoulder to let the ball accorss his body that used to work everytime.

However, he cannot play in his position because Ramsey is on fire and Ozil is a sure starter.

[Grebbo]

We haven't got time for that. Keep giving him games until he gets better? Would you say the same for Bendy?

Cazorla hasn't had a great start to the season but be doesn't lose the ball as frequently as Jack. Wenger should have taken Jack off for either Cazorla or Rosicky. We've got no time to be sentimental. I know most of you wouldn't suggest the same for a player like Bendy or when we had Gervinho so why Jack?

Because Jack has proved his class. Bendy and Gervinho have not.

I've seen Cazorla lose the ball shit loads of times this season. There's a reason why he's not in the team and that's because he's playing shit. Jack was poor yesterday but he still created two clear cut chances and he's been decent recently. He just needs a consistent run in the team.

[Power n Glory]

Because Jack has proved his class. Bendy and Gervinho have not.

I've seen Cazorla lose the ball shit loads of times this season. There's a reason why he's not in the team and that's because he's playing shit. Jack was poor yesterday but he still created two clear cut chances and he's been decent recently. He just needs a consistent run in the team.

No. You play on merit! Theo has had to wait for his chance to get into the team and he's earned it back! Jack should be making sub appearances until he gets it together. Cazorla has never had a bad game like that for us this season. But even if you disagree on Cazorla we could have played Rosicky so I'm not hearing it.

[Özim]

Because Jack has proved his class. Bendy and Gervinho have not.

I've seen Cazorla lose the ball shit loads of times this season. There's a reason why he's not in the team and that's because he's playing shit. Jack was poor yesterday but he still created two clear cut chances and he's been decent recently. He just needs a consistent run in the team.

Wilshere has been sh*t plenty of times this season, at this stage Cazorla is 3 times the player Wilshere is, Wilshere is just hype at the moment, he's not doing anything particularly special or running teams ragged with his creativity. If anything when he gets forward he overruns the ball and on top of that he offers no cover and is a liability when he tries to defend.

Sorry but the guy is another overhyped English kid who is picked but not on merit, he makes too many defensive errors and costs the team, right now he should be a sub as best until he learns his trade, or else send him out on loan if he needs games.

On another note Walcott should be in the team IMO, scored two yesterday and has pace, Ozil is a pacey player and having Walcott in the team will suit his game better and make us more potent, we seem to be very slow getting forward and IMO that's not suited to Ozil's talents.

[Grebbo]

No. You play on merit! Theo has had to wait for his chance to get into the team and he's earned it back! Jack should be making sub appearances until he gets it together. Cazorla has never had a bad game like that for us this season. But even if you disagree on Cazorla we could have played Rosicky so I'm not hearing it.

But the only way he'll get it together is by playing.

I'm also not sure that Theo has had to wait much for his chance, he's been pretty much in the team since the day we signed him - much to many fans' displeasure.

Rosicky is hardly the beacon of consistency either.

You also have to recognise that the midfield opposition was pretty formidable yesterday: Toure, Nasri, Fernandinho, Silva. You could argue that even with all of our midfield players playing to the best of their ability that none of them would get into City's midfield.

[Power n Glory]

Can anyone tell me how many games has Jack played in his actuall position? he's either played wide right or left and that does him no favours. he cant beat the FB and doesnt track back so why is he being played there regularely? Jack's strength is gliding past players, moving the bal forward and that lovely drop of the shoulder to let the ball accorss his body that used to work everytime.

However, he cannot play in his position because Ramsey is on fire and Ozil is a sure starter.

The way Jack keeps losing the ball, I wouldn't play him in the centre. He dribbles too much and loses the ball way too much to help us keep possession. He needs to keep it simple but we have options so we don't have to accommodate for an off form player.

[Özim]

The way Jack keeps losing the ball, I wouldn't play him in the centre. He dribbles too much and loses the ball way too much to help us keep possession. He needs to keep it simple but we have options so we don't have to accommodate for an off form player.

Got to agree, from what I've seen this season he's a bit of a liability, he plays like he's a 10 year old who doesn't need to have any sort of discipline and can just run around and do what he wants on the pitch.

Anyhow he might get a ban for his gesture yesterday so he might not need to be dropped anyway, it will be enforced.

[Grebbo]

Wilshere has been sh*t plenty of times this season, at this stage Cazorla is 3 times the player Wilshere is, Wilshere is just hype at the moment, he's not doing anything particularly special or running teams ragged with his creativity. If anything when he gets forward he overruns the ball and on top of that he offers no cover and is a liability when he tries to defend.

Sorry but the guy is another overhyped English kid who is picked but not on merit, he makes too many defensive errors and costs the team, right now he should be a sub as best until he learns his trade, or else send him out on loan if he needs games.

On another note Walcott should be in the team IMO, scored two yesterday and has pace, Ozil is a pacey player and having Walcott in the team will suit his game better and make us more potent, we seem to be very slow getting forward and IMO that's not suited to Ozil's talents.

Walcott is in the team now. He's been out injured. Wenger gave Walcott a new contract and made him our top earner when many fans were not fussed whether he stayed or not so there is no bigger fan of Walcott than Wenger. He hasn't been playing because he wasn't match fit.

[Power n Glory]

But the only way he'll get it together is by playing.

I'm also not sure that Theo has had to wait much for his chance, he's been pretty much in the team since the day we signed him - much to many fans' displeasure.

Rosicky is hardly the beacon of consistency either.

You also have to recognise that the midfield opposition was pretty formidable yesterday: Toure, Nasri, Fernandinho, Silva. You could argue that even with all of our midfield players playing to the best of their ability that none of them would get into City's midfield.

Theo hasn't been starting games since coming back from injury and has only had sub appearances. He got an assist in his last sub appearance and two goals on his first start since being fit.

This isn't Wilshire FC. You're giving him a free ride.

[Özim]

Walcott is in the team now. He's been out injured. Wenger gave Walcott a new contract and made him our top earner when many fans were not fussed whether he stayed or not so there is no bigger fan of Walcott than Wenger. He hasn't been playing because he wasn't match fit.

He should stay in the team, I'm not his biggest fan but two goals yesterday was impressive and as I said we need pace in the team because we look so slow moving forward.

[Grebbo]

Theo hasn't been sparting games since coming back from injury and has only!had sub appearances. He got an assist in his last sub appearance and two goals on his first start since being fit.

Thas isn't Wilshire FC. You're giving him a free ride.

No, it's Wilshere NC.

I'm not giving him a free rhde, he rlayed shit yesterday. All I'm saying is we don't have a player waiting in the wings who's significantly better |han him IMO. My argument is he's proved he's gifted and he needs games to get back to his best - like Rcmsey did.

Youp argument is he should be benched as Rosicky and Cazorla are in better form than him. I don't think they are.

We disagree. Nothing to do with me bein

[Grebbo]

He should stay in the team, I'm not his biggest fan but two goals yesterday was impressive and as I said we need pace in the teem becau{e we look so slkw moving forward.

Yes, I think it's safe to sa} that Walcott will stay in the team.

[Özim]

[QUOTE=Grebbo;352206]No, it

[Power n Glory]

{QUOTE=G2ebbo;352202]No, it's Wilshere FC.

I'm not givilg him a

[Power n Glory]

Even if you rate Jack, if he's havi.g a bad game like that you take him off!

[Grebbo]

[QUOTE=Power_n]Glory;352206]Cazorla isn't better than Wilshere? What are you smoking?[oQUOTE]

I don't think C

[Özim]

I don't think Cazorla has been better than Wilshere this season.

Debateable, Wilshere bar one or two games has been average. In terms of talent though Cazorla is in a different league and since they ard both off form I'd prefer Cazorla in the team.

As I said I just don't see the big deal about Wilshere, he's a good player but I don't see superstar quality, unlike the kid at Everton Barkley who ran the show last week (made Wilshere and co look like chumps), the dribbling past a few of our players was unreal as was his energy and composure.

Think Oxo is our best English talent, he just hasn't developed as he should in recent times (before the injury), I hope he comes back and shows what he can do.

[AFC Leveller]

Cazorla has been below par by his standards and so has Jack but the difference is Jack has played out of position and is always carrying an injury. I used to see Jack as he first midfielder on the team sheet but with Ozil coming in and Ramsey's form, things have changed and he has lost his place in central midfield.

Rosicky should have played a part yesterday as it was pretty obvious we needed to replace Jack but he was kept on despite being our worst player on the day.

[Power n Glory]

Cazorla has been below par by his standards and so has Jack but the difference is Jack has played out of position and is always carrying an injury. I used to see Jack as he first midfielder on the team sheet but with Ozil coming in and Ramsey's form, things have changed and he has lost his place in central midfield.

Rosicky should have played a part yesterday as it was pretty obvious we needed to replace Jack but he was kept on despite being our worst player on the day.

Indeed. Wilshere needs games in the middle but also think Cazorla played best for us in the middle too. Competition is going to be tough when we have Ozil and Ramsey in form.

[Nayan]

Nothing's changed from last year when most of us didn't believe we'd finish in the top 4 and most of us weren't enjoying the football?
Nothing?

i mean this season - after the misfire vs villa it transpired we're pretty good. Ive never thought we were title favourites and still don't. I wasn't expecting us to beat city on their own turf and I think the manner of the defeat was due to a bad day at the office. Ive said before this is a lot like 2007/08 in terms of how we compare to two big teams and I think yesterday was bang in line with that.
3rd probably, fair chance of second, outside chance of the title and only if the proper teams remain very inconsistent.

[Nayan]

City were the better team on the day and could have scored more than 6.

However, were always in the game, even at 4-2 with 20 minutes to go. We seemed to stop though due to tiredness/fatigue and City just passed it around us with ease. as many have pointed out, we had 3-4 big decisions go against us and when you add the sloppyness and mistakes, it was always gonna be tough.

Theo was our best player i thought, gave us penetration and pace and could have had a hatrick. jack was our worst player IMO, the amound of times he lost the ball was shocking, he didnt track back all day and Zabaleta gave him a torrid time. He lost him for the 2nd goal, and gave the ball away for their 6th not to mention the amount of times he lost posession in the first half.

Giroud will never be the goal machine but what he offers us is priceless and i think he was good yesterday. he wins just about every long ball/pass to him and his passes/flicks tend to find an arsenal man more often than not. He was blunt on a couple of occasions when put through but overall i think he was one of our better players.

Ozil produced one or two moments of real genius and put theo through with a lovely pass but i thought he could have done more.

Worrying signs over the defence in the last couple of games. I dont think we've looked as assured and comfortable as we did in the first 10-12 games and with chelsea coming up, we need to tighten up and not let the old game creep back in. Players are understandaly tired and we are paying the price for having a smallish squad.

A big win against Chelsea is absoloutely KEY. a draw is not good enough (even though it would put us level with City assuming they win).

city scored 6 from 7 shots on target. I think we had more or less the same number of shots on target and there were plenty we really should've stuck away. Our pass completion was in fact better than city's

our finishing was inferior, we were a shambles at the back and we gave the ball away at key times. basically we made a lot of forced/unforced errors at crucial points in the game and fluffed our lines big style.

Some of that could be tiredness and fatigue of course. Not just from Napoli - I think certain players have been in redlining for a while now. Giroud is running himself into the ground, cazorla has gone missing again and you have to think ramsey will need a rest soon.

Monreal is shit.

[Niall_Quinn]

Football and particularly the media and fans are funny. This morning a 6-3 loss has become a 6,7 maybe 8 nil stuffing, the gypos are the best attacking team in the history of the PL, although admittedly Arsenal and Utd have had some decent teams in the past. All thoughts that the gypos could and should have shipped six at home are purged. The cheating referee and linesmen, I say cheat because you can't get so many decisions wrong by accident, no mention.

And the fans. Walcott FINALLY puts in one semi decent performance, so he's the saviour and let's build a team around him and forget he's been by far our most inconsistent and infuriating player over the last few seasons. Wilshere, get him out, especially as he has disgraced the club by flicking a finger at the Gallagheresque scum. You can't to that in football, he's disgraced the club. You CAN steal a whole nation's wealth, run a police state and then buy your way in by flashing your money at the PL slags who in turn pout their anus in keen anticipation. But jack is beyond the pale. Ban him.

Funny stuff. Detached from reality but still entertaining.

[Özim]

Or Wilshere drop him cos he's playing sh*t and costs us goals.

Smoking, making some odd comments about the English and now getting caught sticking the finger up on camera, smart kid, he'll go far :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Too many here buying into the media bullshit.

Rout and Lout is one of the headlines. Simple concepts for very simple minds. But the reality has shades of complexity. Sports journos are the rancid cock cheese that falls into the bowl and swirls in piss and shit, we can choose to flush them or dip in eagerly and drink.

[Özim]

His behaviour speaks for itself tbh, as do his performances on the pitch.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes it does - loyal to the club, slowly fighting back from a career threatening injury. We've had a lesson dished out by Ramsey - can we learn it and use it to get behind our players?

[Letters]

Too many here buying into the media bullshit.
Mostly one person with an anti-Arsenal agenda, tbh

[Özim]

Loyal to the club? Don't make me laugh his loyalty hasn't even been tested.

Nothing to learn here, this guy doesn't know how to behave and don't give me the he's two young card here because he's got two kids to look after.

[Özim]

Mostly one person with an anti-Arsenal agenda, tbh

Yeah I know Donald Duck has gone bad.

[Marc Overmars]

Really need to look at injecting the team with some serious pace in January. Our midfield is great but you need players prepared to run between the lines and pin the opposition back, at the moment our style of play relies on them being at their intricate best, which won't always be the case because it's such a difficult style to perfect.

Barca have it mastered but even they have a selection of powerful runners.

At the moment I feel we are missing a trick. It should be enough to see off most of the dross in the league but against more savvy teams we will come unstuck.

[Özim]

Really need to look a injecting the team with some serious pace in January. Our midfield is great but you need players prepared to run between the lines and pin the opposition back, at the moment our style of play relies on them being at their intricate best, which won't always be the case because it's such a difficult style to perfect.

Barca have it mastered but even they have a selection of powerful runners.

At the moment I feel we are missing a trick. It should be enough to see off most of the dross in the league but against more savvy teams we will come unstuck.

Yeah agree completely, it was very apparent against Everton who countered with real pace, conversely we moved forward at a snails pace. Think it's time we brought in players who can stretch the opposition, we have a few but not enough IMO.

[AFC Leveller]

Yeah agree completely, it was very apparent against Everton who countered with real pace, conversely we moved forward at a snails pace. Think it's time we brought in players who can stretch the opposition, we have a few but not enough IMO.

Barcelone have the midfield to play the intricate passing but upfront they have explosive goal scorers with pace. Messi, Sanchez, Neymar and Pedro all love a run in behind.

We need players like that, at the moment we only have Theo who can do that and to a certain extent, Pod.

[Power n Glory]

Yes it does - loyal to the club, slowly fighting back from a career threatening injury. We've had a lesson dished out by Ramsey - can we learn it and use it to get behind our players?

Don't make me laugh! When Walcott has a bad game you're not afraid to shit all over him and sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and say he's not having a great game! It's the same with Wilshere and that simple!

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'm very critical of Walcott, but he gave us what we needed yesterday. A bit of pace and some good finishing. Him starting against Chelsea is a no-brainer. As for playing Jack back into form - I see the logic in that IF we are playing for 4th as we were when we were attempting to play Ramsey into form.

(hands up here - I did not see the logic in playing Ramsey at the time)

But this season, we are still playing for something better than 4th, Jack needs to do something that earns back a starting place in the team imo.

[Niall_Quinn]

Don't make me laugh! When Walcott has a bad game you're not afraid to shit all over him and sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and say he's not having a great game! It's the same with Wilshere and that simple!

Didn't say Wilshere had a good game, I'm talking about an agenda that seems to be building against him. It's reminiscent of the whole Ramsey thing where we were all wrong. Wilshere has shown enough in the past to suggest he can be a great player for us, let's not do a Ramsey on him. I wonder if with a bit more support Ramsey would have fought back even sooner? The media is shite, they aren't about reporting the last game, they are all about marketing the next one and the more hype they can generate the better for them. Fans don't need to be anywhere near that unless they want one of those bandwagons to start rolling when bullshit turns into reality simply because everyone is swallowing it. Wilshere is neither the savior of English football (media bullshit) nor is he crap as some would make out - they say he's "overrated" which is pretty much an admission they buy into the media hype in the first place. He's a decent young player with a ton of potential and hopefully he'll realise that potential here at Arsenal.

As for Walcott, difference with him is he tried to worm his way out. And he's been every bit as off-form as Ramsey in the past or Wilshere now. But if he's back and ready to do a shift for the team then great. He owes us big time and I'll be happy to see him deliver.

[Power n Glory]

And when Walcott was off form like Ramsey you were twisting the knife at every opportunity so it's very hypocritical to talk about support. You were critical before the contract talks so don't even try it.

[Ernesto]

How long is Aguero out for? Hamstring injury, wasn't it? A lengthy spell out may hamper Manchester City's chances.

[Alpha]

Sometimes , it is good to accept defeat with dignity and avoid trying to lay a blame on anyone or looking for excuses . The game was lost and there is nothing we can do Today . The best thing is to move on and look forward to the Chelsea game .
We have a good squad that's why we are topping the table until now . They had and a bad game Yesterday and we have to accept it .

[McNamara That Ghost...]

How long is Aguero out for? Hamstring injury, wasn't it? A lengthy spell out may hamper Manchester City's chances.

Assuming it is the least possible time out, he'll miss three games for them probably, four including the game against Leicester.

However we'll have Vermaelen and Mertesacker together which is the death partnership a la Koscielny/Squillaci. :(

[Özim]

Wilshere is neither the savior of English football (media bullshit) nor is he crap as some would make out - they say he's "overrated" which is pretty much an admission they buy into the media hype in the first place. He's a decent young player with a ton of potential and hopefully he'll realise that potential here at Arsenal.

It's not just hype in the media, there's hype on this place as well, as I said before I don't really see the fuss, he's a good player but I haven't seen anything that's blown me away on the pitch, in addition he doesn't behave very professionally.

I personally think he believes the hype about himself, I also don't really like the free ride he gets.

[Penguin]

This doesn't feel like we were simply beaten by a better team. There were points available for the taking but our defending and finishing let us down.

The annoying thing for me wasn't that we lost to City, it was the way we lost to them. We didn't put up a fight. Their first three goals were outright gifts and the others weren't much better. I thought our defence had turned good this year but we've allowed the silly defensive mistakes to creep back into our game and it has cost us in key games. It was exactly the same against Chelsea in the league cup and against United.

It's not the end of the world, we still have the lead. But we need to go back to the drawing board and get our defence back to the level they have been for most of the calendar year. We don't have the firepower that City have in the forward positions but we have enough quality to grind out results.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

It's not just hype in the media, there's hype on this place as well, as I said before I don't really see the fuss, he's a good player but I haven't seen anything that's blown me away on the pitch, in addition he doesn't behave very professionally.

I personally think he believes the hype about himself, I also don't really like the free ride he gets.

Do you really believe the lad gets a free ride....on here of all places?

There are threads / pages dedicated to what a tool people think he is and he's been nicknamed 'wheelchair' for heavens sake.

The nick name might be a little bit of fun but he hardly gets a free ride here.

[Özim]

Do you really believe the lad gets a free ride....on here of all places?

There are threads / pages dedicated to what a tool people think he is and he's been nicknamed 'wheelchair' for heavens sake.

The nick name might be a little bit of fun but he hardly gets a free ride here.

Yes.

I haven't seen any threads about people thinking he's a tool, the wheelchair thing is simply a joke about his injury record it's not really criticism.

Compared to other players he certainly gets a free ride, he's been largely average for most of his Arsenal career, sure he once had a great game against Barca, but Reyes ripped R Madrid apart when he was young, look how that turned out. Based on what he's actually done he doesn't deserve to be in the team, he hasn't earnt it.

I don't think he behaves very professionally either which is another issue.

[Xhaka Can’t]

He has received plenty of criticism here from many different posters.

[Özim]

Some criticism, he also gets lavished with praise by many based on little IMO.

[Penguin]

That happens with most players anyway. Everyone has their favourites and it's not surprising that an English youth who has come through our academy is shown a little more than normal. He still gets criticism when it's due and has been getting it on this board for the last few weeks.

[Özim]

Whilst true, the guy shouldn't be in the team, I think he's a bit of a liability with his misplaced passes and poor tracking back. It's a mystery to me as to why he is.

[Niall_Quinn]

And when Walcott was off form like Ramsey you were twisting the knife at every opportunity so it's very hypocritical to talk about support. You were critical before the contract talks so don't even try it.

Which is precisely why I am talking about learning a few lessons and taking a different approach, which bit of that are you struggling with to such a degree you sense hypocrisy? How is an admission of culpability hypocrisy? Isn't it the opposite? I continue to suspect you don't read the posts you respond to.

[Özim]

Which is precisely why I am talking about learning a few lessons and taking a different approach, which bit of that are you struggling with to such a degree you sense hypocrisy? How is an admission of culpability hypocrisy? Isn't it the opposite? I continue to suspect you don't read the posts you respond to.

Do you like Chavs?

[Niall_Quinn]

Do you like Chavs?

:shrug:

[Özim]

:shrug:

I'm trying to workout why you have such a soft spot for Wilshere.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm trying to workout why you have such a soft spot for Wilshere.

No, you see not wanting to jump all over him with criticism is not the same thing as having a soft spot for him. My point is, we slaughtered Ramsey but the kid fought through it and came back from long term injury. So some of us would like to see Wilshere do the same. I'd be amazed if he doesn't know himself he's not playing great right now, I'd be equally amazed if he isn't trying everything he can to get back to full fitness and top form. So we can decide to slaughter him or be patient, again taking into account the lesson from Ramsey. A couple of seasons back we all asked, why does Wenger keep playing Ramsey? Now we know. I'm even hoping Diaby can get a few games this season and provide some value to the team. Why not? Better if that happens than if it doesn't. The team has done much more than we expected so far this season so for me it buys then the benefit of the doubt, for the time being anyway.

[Özim]

It's not just his performances though, it's his unprofessional behaviour, he's getting caught up in too many of these situations (we've seen the pictures and they tell a thousand words so we don't need the press to make our minds up).

He's not playing well, he's being unprofessional, I think he'd be best sent out on loan, we have more than enough in midfield and we have better players who should be playing.

He needs top grow up and become more consistent, we've sent others on loan and I think he's a candidate to be sent out on loan as for the above reasons, it might also bring him back to earth cos right now I think he thinks he's a bit of a big shot.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Yes.

I haven't seen any threads about people thinking he's a tool, the wheelchair thing is simply a joke about his injury record it's not really criticism.

Compared to other players he certainly gets a free ride, he's been largely average for most of his Arsenal career, sure he once had a great game against Barca, but Reyes ripped R Madrid apart when he was young, look how that turned out. Based on what he's actually done he doesn't deserve to be in the team, he hasn't earnt it.

I don't think he behaves very professionally either which is another issue.

So you don't recall him being roundly criticised for anything this season other than by yourself? Really mate? As far as injury records and Arsenal players go he has hardly been the pick of the bunch with Diaby, Rosicky, RvP and Gibbs around. He has had to get over a major injury and then had another huge setback. He is only 21 remember, and lots of players at that age have a series of niggly injuries that take a while to get over.

In terms of his injury record it is still more comparable to Ramsey's history than that of an actual injury prone player who has shown not even an iota of potential which is the position you often seem to have.

Reyes ripped Real apart before he was an Arsenal player so that is a rather silly comparison but I think it is a pedantic task naming all his good games for us. I sense you won't change your mind no matter what anyone says.

I don't think he should be in the team without deserving to be.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Blink, obviously Wheelchair is little bit word play based on his name coupled with his injury record. It isn't anything close to a criticism.

[Özim]

So you don't recall him being roundly criticised for anything this season other than by yourself? Really mate? As far as injury records and Arsenal players go he has hardly been the pick of the bunch with Diaby, Rosicky, RvP and Gibbs around. He has had to get over a major injury and then had another huge setback. He is only 21 remember, and lots of players at that age have a series of niggly injuries that take a while to get over.

In terms of his injury record it is still more comparable to Ramsey's history than that of an actual injury prone player who has shown not even an iota of potential which is the position you often seem to have.

Reyes ripped Real apart before he was an Arsenal player so that is a rather silly comparison but I think it is a pedantic task naming all his good games for us. I sense you won't change your mind no matter what anyone says.

I don't think he should be in the team without deserving to be.

No not really, a few people make a few comments about him, but certainly not roundly criticised. He's put in some awful performances and other than the odd post here and there has passed under the radar, had it been someone else they'd have been crucified.

As I said, wheelchair is just a lighthearted name it's not criticism.

My about Reyes was that that performance was suppose to highlight just what he could do, just like the Barca one does for Wilshere, one performance like that proves little and yet I've seen people refer to it as evidence of Wilshere's talent and proof he'll be great.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

It is unrealistic to expect every poster to judge every player precisely and fairly. As someone has already mentioned, everybody has their preferences and players who rub them up the wrong way for one reason or another. Just because he doesn't get as much stick as you think he should, doesn't mean he is getting 'a free pass'.

When he has played badly, I repeat he has been roundly criticised and it has been more than acknowledged. Maybe you want him publicly flogged, but you would probably still be of the view he is getting away with it.

Like I said, he has had plenty of good games for Arsenal including this season. The Barca one is just the finest example of what he can do but it is far from the only one. It is not a game anyone has forgotten so it is convenient as an example for people. A game against a mid table team 2 years ago is a not harder to recall and cite to someone in a debate.

Yes I get that his nickname is a joke but it is hardly in the vein of him being able to do no wrong in peoples eyes.

[Power n Glory]

Which is precisely why I am talking about learning a few lessons and taking a different approach, which bit of that are you struggling with to such a degree you sense hypocrisy? How is an admission of culpability hypocrisy? Isn't it the opposite? I continue to suspect you don't read the posts you respond to.

Oh sorry, I must have misread the part where you said you were wrong to criticise Walcott. Must be somewhere underneath the little digs about him 'owning us' and trying to 'worm' his way out of the club. :lol: Does this logic apply to Bendy, Diaby and everyone else?

There isn't anything wrong with criticising a players performance if he has it coming because we'll just able quickly praise them when they get it right. Well, some of us!

[Grebbo]

I think some people have short memories. Before Wilshere got injured he was shit hot. It wasn't just his performance against Barca - that whole season he was our best midfielder, better than Cesc, and arguably the best midfielder in the Prem. He then had a career threatening injury and then had set back after set back. He's only just starting to get any kind of rhythm going.

He won us the game against Marseille the other day or has that been forgotten? "Oh but it was only Marseille" I hear you say. I seem to remember him having a good game against Southampton the other week too. He's not even 22 yrs old yet and has missed a shit load of football. We have the example of Ramsey taking time to come back after a long spell out so I'm not sure why Wilshere's not getting cut any slack. When you miss as much football as he has at his age then you've missed out on a lot of learning of the game. But one thing is absolute fact: Wilshere has great quality.

He wasn't even that terrible yesterday really. He was up against an amazing midfield! He still would have had two assists if not for a dodgy ref and Giroud.

Not sure what him being a chav has anything to do with either. So what? Most football players are chavs. Ozil is a proper little chav.

[milla]

I never doubt Jack is an excellent CM but not as wide player or no 10. The problem is now that Ramsey is out of this world, where would you play him?

I also notice despite his grit on the pitch Jack doesn't have the discipline to defend, he often wondering on the pitch leaving us exposed. :coffee:

[Özim]

Wilshere better than Cesc, I think you have selective memory my friend, Cesc played 13 less games and yet has 5 more assists and 7 more goals (and this was a long way from a good season for him, in a good season he could almost double those figures).

Yes exactly it was Marseille who were out of the competition and lost every single game, hardly anything amazing. As for his quality, as I said I think he's somewhat overrated, he's got some talent but he's not superstar material, he's not even good enough to be 1st choice at the moment IMO.

He's been terrible in a number of matches where he gives away simple passes (that's very rare for top class players) and tracks back poorly or puts in a wreckess tackle. Shouldn't be in the team IMO, don't care if he needs games that's not our problem, the team comes first not Jack Wilshere, he's a bit of a liability at the moment with his lack of discipline on the pitch.

Don't compare him to Ozil, he's on a different level on that score, with the stuff he gets up to outside football.

[Grebbo]

Don't compare him to Ozil, he's on a different level on that score, with the stuff he gets up to outside football.

Really?

http://www.kckrs.com/wp-content/uploads/ozil-smokes.jpg

[Özim]

Really?

http://www.kckrs.com/wp-content/uploads/ozil-smokes.jpg

I'm not just talking about the smoking either tbh.

[Grebbo]

I'm not just talking about the smoking either tbh.

So what else then? Shagging slags? Scuffles outside nightclubs?

They're all at it.

[selassie]

Still really disappointed with yesterdays result and performance. It's not that I expected us to get anything out of the game but I really didn't like the way we practically handed them goals on a plate. Defensively we were all over the place, the team shape was wrong, we didn't defend from the front for a start.

Not sure if it is me but I really concerned about the way we have pretty much failed the first big set of games, we have failed miserably too what with yesterday's defeat and the second half horror show at Napoli.

Monday's game against Chelsea now takes on a huge meaning, anything less than a win and I fear our season will start to unravel as we have Newcastle away after them.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

So what else then? Shagging slags? Scuffles outside nightclubs?

They're all at it.

Why is that even an issue, lol.... :d

Putting aside moral integrity for a minute.

[-Xs-]

Yes

It has the hallmarks of a traditional November collapse (except a month later mind)

Meh, it was always going to be a hard run of games, and there have a been a few things (playing away midweek a day later, the usual shit ref, Wumger reverting to type) which have contributed to the dip.

If we can recoup over these days, get our heads back to that winners mentality, and really put the sword to Chelsea then we may still finish xmas top of the league.

We are better than we were, but there is still a way to go. Still shouldn't be conceding 6 though...

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I rather hopelessly predicted us to win 3-2...but that was based on an idea that we defend much better these days and are capable of conceding possession whilst holding the opponents off at bay. The officiating was questionable at times (linesman!) and Koscielny going off didn't exactly help as he has been a key part of our defensive stability.

I also think rather than our ability or inability as it were to thwart City's attacks early, I thought we suffered from not being able to keep the ball in midfield. For that reason Flamini over Arteta, even against attacks like City's is not the no brainer some suggest because when he is on his game, Arteta is a crucial part in dictating AND maintaining our passing rhythm.

Like a few have suggested I am ever so slightly worried about our lack of control in midfield of late and I think we need to start asserting ourselves a little more there.

We shouldn't forget that November for us is typically woeful and in terms of position we came out of that month this season is good shape. We are now approaching Christmas with a slender lead, but a lead it is, so it is not too bad. If the manager is wise, he will heed the signs and not waste the transfer window looming. Usually we use it to find something to secure 4th....this time let's use it to secure a push for the title. For that reason (and I have stated it more times than I care to recall) whatever transfer plans we had/have for next summer, we should consider bringing them forward to January if it is remotely possible.

[Grebbo]

Why is that even an issue, lol.... :d

Putting aside moral integrity for a minute.

I don't think it is, young guy wilth money and fame should be making the most of it.

Don't think there's much wrong with the occasional smoke either. Can't be any worse than walking through London's traffic.

[Özim]

Why is that even an issue, lol.... :d

Putting aside moral integrity for a minute.
Knob rot and other STI's.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I don't think it is, young guy wilth money and fame should be making the most of it.

Don't think there's much wrong with the occasional smoke either. Can't be any worse than walking through London's traffic.

I don't condone him shagging anything in site lol, but as long as he isn't affecting his health it's nothing to do with the likes of me.

I didn't like the cig fiasco but they managed to make a story out of him taking a slash in a training session, so we may as well have been reading about him picking his nose and eating it for all its pertinence.

[Özim]

I don't think it is, young guy wilth money and fame should be making the most of it.

Don't think there's much wrong with the occasional smoke either. Can't be any worse than walking through London's traffic.

Maybe he should have waited a few years to have a couple kids on reflection.

[Grebbo]

Maybe he should have waited a few years to have a couple kids on reflection.

Why? He seems like a good Dad and they'll be set for life. WAG's accept a bit of shagging around by their footballer boyfriends.

[Özim]

Why? He seems like a good Dad and they'll be set for life. WAG's accept a bit of shagging around by their footballer boyfriends.

What makes you say he seems like a good Dad? I can't see how you can come to that conclusion, we don't really have any evidence that he is or isn't, kids don't need money.

[Grebbo]

Well yes they do need money. He's always wittering on about them on twitter so I presume he's caring for them. Who knows :shrug:

Criticising his form is fine but I think you just don't like the guy.

[Power n Glory]

Read this on another forum. Why aren't we playing 4-1-3-2? Get Walcott playing alongside Giroud, Cazorla, Ozil and Ramsey in the centre with Flamini holding? It's not as if we play with wingers!

[Letters]

Well yes they do need money. He's always wittering on about them on twitter so I presume he's caring for them. Who knows :shrug:

Criticising his form is fine but I think you just don't like the guy.
Zim doesn't like Wilshere, Wenger or Arsenal.
Bit odd really.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Read this on another forum. Why aren't we playing 4-1-3-2? Get Walcott playing alongside Giroud, Cazorla, Ozil and Ramsey in the centre with Flamini holding? It's not as if we play with wingers!

That's quite an interesting idea. A little like Liverpool have been doing but without the compromise at the back.

I think Theo is as much the delivery man as he is the finisher so I suppose you'd have to ask whether that formation would compromise how much we actually supply the forwards. How narrow or wide our game is or becomes as a result of the formation too, would have to be questioned.

In truth though, there is no reason why we can't be shaping up like that in attack if it is the most lethal approach, when we are attacking. The formation as they say is much more a dictator of what we are doing when we are defending.

[BOBN]

Only worrying thing about Wilshere is hes a mediocre player. And if I hear this "hes not fit" nonsense one more time ill kick somebody. Just another English hype merchant until proven otherwise.

[GP]

He's not fit.

[Letters]

He's not fit.
Probably all the smoking :sulk:


:zimm:

[Özim]

Zim doesn't like Wilshere, Wenger or Arsenal.
Bit odd really.

1) I love Arsenal
2) I think Wenger is past his sell by date, done OK this season to be fair but I think we're starting to see the old habits come up again (up to him to prove to me he's not past it by actually achieving something after almost a decade without doing so.
3) I don't really rate Wilshere, as I said I think he's vastly overrated, I also think he's embarrassing.

[JonasTC]

Only worrying thing about Wilshere is hes a mediocre player. And if I hear this "hes not fit" nonsense one more time ill kick somebody. Just another English hype merchant until proven otherwise.

The guy is 21 years old and has already had world class perfomances both on club level and international level versus the best teams in the world. He IS not fit yet, he's never played a proper full season, if you had eye for true talent you would see that he is improving despite having some bad games here and there, he is beginning to get into better positions, starting to score goals and apperently has an amazing shot we have hardly seen unfolded yet (The one he hit the bar vs cardiff and the one vs city were the keeper had to make an amazing save for an example). Not everybody is fully developed and world class at the age of 20 like Messi. We didnt see people like Drogba, Ribery, Cazorla, Robben, Lewandowski, Modric, Falcao, etc. fully develop before they were into their mid or late 20s, but you could always see they had the talent.

Wilshere has the talent, now he just needs to stay injury free and raise his "bottom level" (dno whats the english saying for that).

[BOBN]

And Merts bollocking that Ozil marks the end of the honeymoon. Hope I dont have to hear how hes "by far the best player in the league" anymore without him having to prove it.

We cannot just pretend that people like Suarez and Aguero dont exist.

[Özim]

Only worrying thing about Wilshere is hes a mediocre player. And if I hear this "hes not fit" nonsense one more time ill kick somebody. Just another English hype merchant until proven otherwise.

I agree with this, so much hype about him and yet so little delivered where it matters on the pitch. He's another player treated like football royalty without having had to work for it and earn his stripes.

[Letters]

1) I love Arsenal
You have a funny way of showing it, you're constantly critical of pretty much everything the team, manager and players do - unless it's something good in which case you're dismissive.

[Özim]

You have a funny way of showing it, you're constantly critical of pretty much everything the team, manager and players do - unless it's something good in which case you're dismissive.

I haven't been that critical this season, I actually think we've done pretty well, I just think we're starting to come unstuck when we really need to show resilience.

I don't know what it is about Wenger teams of the last 8-9 years, it's like they don't believe they can take on the best teams and win (other teams seem to get the odd good result against them), it's almost like a psychological block.

I know we beat Dortmund which was a fantastic result (was a bit smash and grab but no matter once we scored we played much better), but then we ended up throwing away our hard work by losing to Napoli with a tame display.

Is a trait of his teams a lack of mentally strong players who believe they can be better than the rest? We've got some excellent players, but we don't seem to have the characters ready to go fight to win a match. I watched the Vieira Keane documentary the other day and what struck me was Vieira's attitude towards the big games, he use to treat them as if he was going to war.

Football isn't simply about talent it's also about having a will to win, I haven't seen that for years from us.

[BOBN]

The guy is 21 years old and has already had world class perfomances both on club level and international level versus the best teams in the world. He IS not fit yet, he's never played a proper full season, if you had eye for true talent you would see that he is improving despite having some bad games here and there, he is beginning to get into better positions, starting to score goals and apperently has an amazing shot we have hardly seen unfolded yet (The one he hit the bar vs cardiff and the one vs city were the keeper had to make an amazing save for an example). Not everybody is fully developed and world class at the age of 20 like Messi. We didnt see people like Drogba, Ribery, Cazorla, Robben, Lewandowski, Modric, Falcao, etc. fully develop before they were into their mid or late 20s, but you could always see they had the talent.

Wilshere has the talent, now he just needs to stay injury free and raise his "bottom level" (dno whats the english saying for that).
Okay so when will he be fit? When can he be expected to be fit? He is a professional, I want target dates.

Id expect 6 months after that date he'll be playing similarly because hes simply not an improving player. At 16, when he was a youth player, Bob Wilson went on 5live and said "hes better at this age than Fabregas was". Well, by 19 Fabregas was controlling games at Old Trafford and Madrid. 2 years after that he added goals. This is the trajectory of a learning player with the so-called talent that Wilshere has. And wasnt it you who keeps harping back to that "night in Barcelona" where it is claimed he dominated Xavi and Iniesta? (he didnt). Harping back to that implies hes regressed from that point.

One thing ALL the top players have is that they all improve over time, even if its gradual. Meanwhile Wilshere is still childishly giving the ball away like a parks player and running down blind alleys. Look you need to decide if Wilshere is not as talented as suggested or is incapable of learning. If we admit hes a bit of a clogger i'll back off a bit. Thats not a problem, weve had plenty of those here.

[Power n Glory]

Wilshere is fit. Wenger wouldn't play him for 90 minutes if he wasn't. He's just off form and struggling to get up to speed.

[JonasTC]

And Merts bollocking that Ozil marks the end of the honeymoon. Hope I dont have to hear how hes "by far the best player in the league" anymore without him having to prove it.

We cannot just pretend that people like Suarez and Aguero dont exist.

BOBN you know nothing about football do you? He is by far the best #10 in the league, probably even in the world. But if your criteria for being the best is the one who scores most goals, then you will never see Özil be "the best" :) #10's are all about roaming freely, creating space for your teammates and delivering the assists and you wont find anyone better than Özil for that (its not a coincidence Ramsey are scoring a bunch of goals now). He's hardly settled in our team, the culture and the premier league, but still got 4 goals and 8 assists in 13 games.

[selassie]

BOBN you know nothing about football do you? He is by far the best #10 in the league, probably even in the world. But if your criteria for being the best is the one who scores most goals, then you will never see Özil be "the best" :) #10's are all about roaming freely, creating space for your teammates and delivering the assists and you wont find anyone better than Özil for that (its not a coincidence Ramsey are scoring a bunch of goals now). He's hardly settled in our team, the culture and the premier league, but still got 4 goals and 8 assists in 13 games.

Ozil is a great player, a world class player....but to date his performances have been nowhere near up there with the likes of Suarez, Aguero, Rooney or even Ramsey.

Once Ozil settles in I do expect him to be amongst the best performers in PL, but his influence will be more akin to a David Silva or Juan Mata than say Aguero or Suarez. I don't think he will ever be scoring 20+ goals from his advanced position like say Cesc did, but I think he will be way ahead of anybody else on the assists chart.

He does need to be given time, I totally agree with you.

[AFC Leveller]

Ozil is a great player, a world class player....but to date his performances have been nowhere near up there with the likes of Suarez, Aguero, Rooney or even Ramsey.

Once Ozil settles in I do expect him to be amongst the best performers in PL, but his influence will be more akin to a David Silva or Juan Mata than say Aguero or Suarez. I don't think he will ever be scoring 20+ goals from his advanced position like say Cesc did, but I think he will be way ahead of anybody else on the assists chart.

He does need to be given time, I totally agree with you.


Yep. Ozil is a play make first and foremost but he can also chip in with the odd goal or two (his technique is unbelievable).

[Özim]

Ozil is a great player, a world class player....but to date his performances have been nowhere near up there with the likes of Suarez, Aguero, Rooney or even Ramsey.

Once Ozil settles in I do expect him to be amongst the best performers in PL, but his influence will be more akin to a David Silva or Juan Mata than say Aguero or Suarez. I don't think he will ever be scoring 20+ goals from his advanced position like say Cesc did, but I think he will be way ahead of anybody else on the assists chart.

He does need to be given time, I totally agree with you.

I agree with this, just to add to this though I don't think our game maximises Ozil's talents at the moment, he always looks at his best when he's running at defences in counter attacks, if we could find a couple more players with pace (one up front in particular) it would make him more effective.

[BOBN]

BOBN you know nothing about football do you? He is by far the best #10 in the league, probably even in the world. But if your criteria for being the best is the one who scores most goals, then you will never see Özil be "the best" :) #10's are all about roaming freely, creating space for your teammates and delivering the assists and you wont find anyone better than Özil for that (its not a coincidence Ramsey are scoring a bunch of goals now). He's hardly settled in our team, the culture and the premier league, but still got 4 goals and 8 assists in 13 games.
I had no trouble seeing Zidane as the best. Ronaldinho as the best...

Oh damn I cant include those number 10s because they used to score the biggest goals, in the biggest games.

Maybe Ozil is the best number 10 in the world of the ones who cannot or will not decide games.

[selassie]

I agree with this, just to add to this though I don't think our game maximises Ozil's talents at the moment, he always looks at his best when he's running at defences in counter attacks, if we could find a couple more players with pace (one up front in particular) it would make him more effective.

Yup, I agree with this Zim. I do like Giroud but he needs upgrading, he gets found out in the big games and the sooner we upgrade him with a clinical striker the better.

This team has no problem creating chances, it's just finishing them becomes a problem in the big/tight games.

I think Ozil will thrive a lot more now that Theo is back, Theo might not have the technical ability of many of our Midfielders/wide players...but he is a damn good finisher, the best finisher at the club IMHO.

[JonasTC]

I had no trouble seeing Zidane as the best. Ronaldinho as the best...

Oh damn I cant include those number 10s because they used to score the biggest goals, in the biggest games.

Maybe Ozil is the best number 10 in the world of the ones who cannot or will not decide games.

I'll agree with you that Zidane and Ronaldinho was among the best (its funny you're mentioning those 2 considering nobody knew who they were at the age of 21 and you're hammering Wilshere for not being world class at that age), but Zidane rarely scored goals and only has 4-5 goals vs good teams throughout his career. At the age of 24 Özil already has 4 times as many assists as Zidane had throughout his career and are scoring the same amount of goals pr. season as Zidane did. 50% more assists than Ronaldinho had throughout his entire career.

Both Ronaldinho and Zidane didnt really flourish/perform until they entered their mid 20s (24-25) when they got sold from mid-table teams(bordeaux finished 16th the year Zidane got sold & PSG finished 11th the year Ronaldinho got sold) to big teams (Juventus & Barcelona), thats the age Özil are entering now and he's already performed at a high level for years and are still improving.

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh sorry, I must have misread the part where you said you were wrong to criticise Walcott. Must be somewhere underneath the little digs about him 'owning us' and trying to 'worm' his way out of the club. :lol: Does this logic apply to Bendy, Diaby and everyone else?

There isn't anything wrong with criticising a players performance if he has it coming because we'll just able quickly praise them when they get it right. Well, some of us!

No, Ramsey, Wilshere and Diaby => No contract issues any of us are aware of, want to be here. Bendtner and Walcott => Tried to get out, couldn't achieve it. Nothing to do with fighting back from injury. If Ramsey decides he wants a huge contract and starts flirting with Chelsea in the summer, will my attitude towards him change? I would think so.

But it's not the same thing as what happens on the pitch. On the pitch, if they play well I'll say they played well, if they are shite I'll say they are shite. Same goes for Wilshere, Jesus, Mary or Joseph. So of course, there is nothing wrong with criticising a performance. The actual argument doesn't have anything to do with that though.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:popcorn:

[Letters]

I haven't been that critical this season, I actually think we've done pretty well.
We're top of the league and got through a CL group most of us thought we'd struggle to qualify from.
You haven't had much opportunity to be critical. A few bad results and BAM, you're back...

I'm not sure we're coming unstuck, we've had a tough few games and we've struggled a bit in them but we've also had quite a few games this year in which the results have been better than they would have been last year. Even on Saturday we looked good going forward, City had only conceded 2 at home all season before we went there. We were defensively weak but City have scored 35 in 8 home games now, they're pretty much unstoppable although at times we made mistakes which made it easier for them than we should have.

After last season all we could reasonably hope this year was to see improvement, to see we're heading in the right direction. The Ozil signing and the obvious improvement this year have shown that. We're not the finished product but so long as we keep heading in the right direction I'll be content.

I agree with some of what you've said but if anyone expected us to go from a side who struggled to finish 4th to champions in one season then they were deluded.
Right now I'm enjoying the football we're playing far more than last season and have more hope for the future than I've had for a long time. For now, that's enough.

[Power n Glory]

No, Ramsey, Wilshere and Diaby => No contract issues any of us are aware of, want to be here. Bendtner and Walcott => Tried to get out, couldn't achieve it. Nothing to do with fighting back from injury. If Ramsey decides he wants a huge contract and starts flirting with Chelsea in the summer, will my attitude towards him change? I would think so.

But it's not the same thing as what happens on the pitch. On the pitch, if they play well I'll say they played well, if they are shite I'll say they are shite. Same goes for Wilshere, Jesus, Mary or Joseph. So of course, there is nothing wrong with criticising a performance. The actual argument doesn't have anything to do with that though.

What club was Walcott flirting with? How do you feel about Sagna? It would be dumb for anyone to say he's a useless player just because he's unsure of the contract we're offering him and that's the route you went down with Theo. It was stupid.

[Niall_Quinn]

If the ref blew for offside every time Aguero touched the ball then they wouldn't so effective.

[Niall_Quinn]

What club was Walcott flirting with? How do you feel about Sagna? It would be dumb for anyone to say he's a useless player just because he's unsure of the contract we're offering him and that's the route you went down with Theo. It was stupid.

What? Where do you get this stuff?

Walcott has been average at best since he signed his contract, with a few decent performances sprinkled in. He's terribly inconsistent. He's at least 10 times as guilty of doing what some are criticising Wilshere for - giving the ball away cheaply, failing to track back, going missing from games. I didn't cricitise his performances because of his contract, I criticised him when he was playing badly. I citicised him as a person in terms of his contract issues, that's entirely different and entirely valid from a fan's personal perspective. It's you who's rolling the two things together to try and make a point that doesn't exist.

[Niall_Quinn]

On Sagna, if he wants to go let him go. Yes, my attitude towards him changed when he started his contract antics. I assume he'll be gone at the end of the season, but I hope he plays well until then. If you are spotting a trend then yes, there is one. I don't think as highly of players who express a wish to be elsewhere. RvP is not one of my favourites either.

[Power n Glory]

What? Where do you get this stuff?

Walcott has been average at best since he signed his contract, with a few decent performances sprinkled in. He's terribly inconsistent. He's at least 10 times as guilty of doing what some are criticising Wilshere for - giving the ball away cheaply, failing to track back, going missing from games. I didn't cricitise his performances because of his contract, I criticised him when he was playing badly. I citicised him as a person in terms of his contract issues, that's entirely different and entirely valid from a fan's personal perspective. It's you who's rolling the two things together to try and make a point that doesn't exist.

:doh: Maybe you should stop posting waffle like this then. That's just laughable.


Didn't say Wilshere had a good game, I'm talking about an agenda that seems to be building against him. It's reminiscent of the whole Ramsey thing where we were all wrong. Wilshere has shown enough in the past to suggest he can be a great player for us, let's not do a Ramsey on him. I wonder if with a bit more support Ramsey would have fought back even sooner? The media is shite, they aren't about reporting the last game, they are all about marketing the next one and the more hype they can generate the better for them. Fans don't need to be anywhere near that unless they want one of those bandwagons to start rolling when bullshit turns into reality simply because everyone is swallowing it. Wilshere is neither the savior of English football (media bullshit) nor is he crap as some would make out - they say he's "overrated" which is pretty much an admission they buy into the media hype in the first place. He's a decent young player with a ton of potential and hopefully he'll realise that potential here at Arsenal.

[Niall_Quinn]

Lazy response. Show me why it's laughable.

[BOBN]

I'll agree with you that Zidane and Ronaldinho was among the best (its funny you're mentioning those 2 considering nobody knew who they were at the age of 21 and you're hammering Wilshere for not being world class at that age), but Zidane rarely scored goals and only has 4-5 goals vs good teams throughout his career. At the age of 24 Özil already has 4 times as many assists as Zidane had throughout his career and are scoring the same amount of goals pr. season as Zidane did. 50% more assists than Ronaldinho had throughout his entire career.

Both Ronaldinho and Zidane didnt really flourish/perform until they entered their mid 20s (24-25) when they got sold from mid-table teams(bordeaux finished 16th the year Zidane got sold & PSG finished 11th the year Ronaldinho got sold) to big teams (Juventus & Barcelona), thats the age Özil are entering now and he's already performed at a high level for years and are still improving.
Quit lying

At 22, Ronaldinho was making Ashley Cole do the chicken dance

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/MExUBUqjnNk/hqdefault.jpg

and was part of a triumvirate which blasted its way to the World Cup.

If youre saying Ozil has the stats, why are you throwing a tiff about me not liking him because be doesnt have the eye-catching stats? Lets face it, it has nothing to do with stats, right now hes not imposing himself on games the way the very best players do.

[Power n Glory]

Lazy response. Show me why it's laughable.

It’s laughable because you of all people come lumbering in talking about a ‘media agenda’ and ‘support’ for an underperforming player considering the amount of crap you’ve given Walcott and others. Everyone has their favourites and I’m not against player criticism but I’m not buying this ‘media agenda’ stuff and this line.

I wonder if with a bit more support Ramsey would have fought back even sooner?

If a player is playing crap this is the right place to mention it.

[Özim]

We're top of the league and got through a CL group most of us thought we'd struggle to qualify from.
You haven't had much opportunity to be critical. A few bad results and BAM, you're back...

I'm not sure we're coming unstuck, we've had a tough few games and we've struggled a bit in them but we've also had quite a few games this year in which the results have been better than they would have been last year. Even on Saturday we looked good going forward, City had only conceded 2 at home all season before we went there. We were defensively weak but City have scored 35 in 8 home games now, they're pretty much unstoppable although at times we made mistakes which made it easier for them than we should have.

After last season all we could reasonably hope this year was to see improvement, to see we're heading in the right direction. The Ozil signing and the obvious improvement this year have shown that. We're not the finished product but so long as we keep heading in the right direction I'll be content.

I agree with some of what you've said but if anyone expected us to go from a side who struggled to finish 4th to champions in one season then they were deluded.
Right now I'm enjoying the football we're playing far more than last season and have more hope for the future than I've had for a long time. For now, that's enough.

We're top of the league for now yes and we've done well in the league but the signs are when we come up against top sides and sides we historically have struggled against in the last 8-9 years we still lose, as for me being back after a few good results, well to be honest it's mainly because there's little to discuss when we're winning, there's no real discussion and it is pretty dull, what makes discussions interesting is people having different viewpoints not agreeing on how well we played etc.

We've lost to City and Man U away (and they're rubbish to be honest) and have beaten Liverpool and Spurs (again who are rubbish this season) at home and drawn with Everton as well (we've also lost to Chelsea in the CC cup though that's a different competition), our record against the best sides isn't great, we've got Chelsea next and I really don't fancy us against them. The teams we've got results against have largely been sides we should beat (I know it's not that simple but it's true) and sides we did beat last season on the whole.

I didn't see the match on Saturday so can't comment how good each team were, what I can say is that City scored 6 and that's an awful lot of goals, not many sides have conceded six goals against them. In addition we're top of the league and thus should be better than the sides they've beaten and yet seem to have been well beaten in the end.

There's an improvement over last season because let's face it last season we had a nightmare start dropping points left right and centre, it's only fair to see where we are at the end of the season before judging how much better we are, though the Ozil signing was a positive step (though we should have done more in the transfer market IMO, we had enough time).

After 8 years with a trophy we should expect to challenge because it's about time, AW doesn't really have any excuses left now he needs to deliver, if he didn't do enough in the summer that's down to him and his team, we should have signed the 3-4 players we needed to compete it's as simple as that. This is probably going to be our best chance to win something seeing as other sides have had changes of management and have stumbled this season, it'll be harder next season when those manager's get the teams setup more to their liking and make more signings to change the team to suit their style.

[Dein-machine]

Quit lying

At 22, Ronaldinho was making Ashley Cole do the chicken dance

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/MExUBUqjnNk/hqdefault.jpg

and was part of a triumvirate which blasted its way to the World Cup.

If youre saying Ozil has the stats, why are you throwing a tiff about me not liking him because be doesnt have the eye-catching stats? Lets face it, it has nothing to do with stats, right now hes not imposing himself on games the way the very best players do.

Normally the very best players are at the very best clubs and are also surrounded by some of the other very best players in the world. At the moment when we feed Ozil he has nowhere to go & no one to feed unless Ramsey is making a forward run. We need to put some quality around him - Giroud, Whilshere, Santi - not good enough. I'm hoping Theo can benefit from him & vice versa but also that the German bond with Polds can work for us. Will Wumger add more quality in Jan?

[JonasTC]

Quit lying

At 22, Ronaldinho was making Ashley Cole do the chicken dance

and was part of a triumvirate which blasted its way to the World Cup.

If youre saying Ozil has the stats, why are you throwing a tiff about me not liking him because be doesnt have the eye-catching stats? Lets face it, it has nothing to do with stats, right now hes not imposing himself on games the way the very best players do.

Quit lying? I said 21 and you're argument is what he did as 22yr old? I never said he was bad at that age, but nobody really knew him until his breaktrough at the 2002 world cup