Is There Corruption By Match Officials In The Premier League

[Maestro]

Following on from the Villa match thread, what's the views?

Can someone poll this thread for me as well:

Yes
No
Maybe/Don't Know

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes / thread

[Maestro]

In addition to match officials, include game officials i.e. FA & BPL

......FIFA? ...let's not even go there

[Maestro]

Yes / thread

what are you like, you killjoy

:sulk:

[GP]

In addition to match officials, include game officials i.e. FA & BPL

......FIFA? ...let's not even go there

LMAO. Corruption at FIFA? No chance. Qatar were awarded the world cup based on their rich football history and impressive existing infrastructure.

[JonasTC]

LMAO. Corruption at FIFA? No chance. Qatar were awarded the world cup based on their rich football history and impressive existing infrastructure.

Not to forget their perfect climate to play football in :)

[JonasTC]

We all know their is corruption in FIFA and UEFA, we just dont know how far it stretches out, does it go all the way down to the refs at times?

[Niall_Quinn]

what are you like, you killjoy

:sulk:

It was a simple question with an obvious answer.

[Niall_Quinn]

We all know their is corruption in FIFA and UEFA, we just dont know how far it stretches out, does it go all the way down to the refs at times?


It extends everywhere except the PL.

[KSE Comedy Club]

You have to ask the question tbf.

Why is it that football is pretty much the only sport in the modern world that doesn't use technology to assist in following the rules of the game and getting decisions right?

Much harder to influence results if an instant replay shows what the decision should be.

[Niall_Quinn]

You have to ask the question tbf.

Why is it that football is pretty much the only sport in the modern world that doesn't use technology to assist in following the rules of the game and getting decisions right?

Much harder to influence results if an instant replay shows what the decision should be.

Technology would cause long delays while they photoshop stuff

[GP]

You have to ask the question tbf.

Why is it that football is pretty much the only sport in the modern world that doesn't use technology to assist in following the rules of the game and getting decisions right?

Much harder to influence results if an instant replay shows what the decision should be.

Yeah, I asked that question yesterday.

Luckily for FIFA they've played their sleight of hand on that one, introducing goal-line technology that no one wanted.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Funnily enough I was watching SSN this morning, and Dermot Galagher was analysing the weekend's big descisions.

Incidentally he said that the barcodes disallowed goal was a goal. plain and simple, no debate needed. The ref got it wrong.

Then they went on about how hard it was for the ref to see everything that is going on and get all decisions right, etc, which I asked myself - Who the fuck then, is accountable?

He also said that it happens in the training camp too.

He said "if you had a room of 20 refs and they were asked to look at a penalty claim, you could guarantee that 10 would say it was a penalty and 10 would say it wasn't."

Then he said "actually if 19 said it was a penalty and 1 said it wasn't, then you would have a problem" (WTF?!?!)

Surely if everyone - players, refs, linesmen, pundits, fans, etc are all following the exact same set of rules that are set out for the game, then 19/20 calling a decision the same should be the proper outcome?

All this shit about it 'being down to interpretation of the rules, or what the ref thinks at the time' is an archaic load of shite.

I would prefer incidents in games being called correctly and talking points be about how the game was played, how well x player played, how good the goal was, etc, than 'was it a red card? was it a penalty'

Or 'Once again the ref influenced the result'

[Niall_Quinn]

Then he said "actually if 19 said it was a penalty and 1 said it wasn't, then you would have a problem" (WTF?!?!)

Yes, a big problem because it would all be even more obvious.

[Letters]

Yes / thread
Why would you bother watching if you thought that?

And when we were at our best were the refs in our pay, or does that only work when we're not at the top?

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yeah, I asked that question yesterday.

Luckily for FIFA they've played their sleight of hand on that one, introducing goal-line technology that no one wanted.
Yeh, too true.

Everyone was calling for goal line technology - (really?)

Then we get peaches like our game against chavs - Lampard hits the crossbar and the ball lands about a metre and a half away from the line - 'lets see on hawkeye if that was goal or not' :rolleyes:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Technology would cause long delays while they photoshop stuff

:lol:

[GP]

Why would you bother watching if you thought that?

And when we were at our best were the refs in our pay, or does that only work when we're not at the top?

Come on now.

You can't honestly look at some of the dodgy decisions that are made and think it's all on the level.

And please don't say they even themselves out.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Why would you bother watching if you thought that?

And when we were at our best were the refs in our pay, or does that only work when we're not at the top?
We've never had the refs under our influence.

we were just too good at the time and everyone hated us even more because of it.

[Marc Overmars]

Why would you bother watching if you thought that?

And when we were at our best were the refs in our pay, or does that only work when we're not at the top?

Wenget for the brown envelope that allowed Pires to win his penalty against Portsmouth. :bow:

[Xhaka Can’t]

They do though. See, when we were playing City, the linesman called us offside a fuckload of times in the first half. In the second half, he called pretty much nothing at all.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Letters]

We've never had the refs under our influence.

we were just too good at the time and everyone hated us even more because of it.
It sounds pretty paranoid to say that when we were top it was despite the corruption and that when other teams are doing well it's all because of corruption.
Especially when other teams' fans are equally paranoid and saying how much the media love Arsenal (have a look at glory glory, for example)
We can't lol at them and dismiss them as ridiculous without thinking a bit carefully about making the same claims ourselves.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why would you bother watching if you thought that?

And when we were at our best were the refs in our pay, or does that only work when we're not at the top?

In fact why live, life is corrupt too. You watch and support because it's your voice shouting against it when the gambling syndicates and dodgy £5K per red card wankers start their antics. If people who wanted to see a level playing field weren't still around then the crooked wankers would have a free reign.

At the most senior level the game is utterly corrupt, surely nobody can argue against that. And there's an endless stream of corruption stories from all across Europe including the PL. Ronaldo just won the accolade of best player on the planet - be nice to know if he was on drugs or not, wouldn't it? To verify if he really was the best without and unfair advantage. And why do these stories bubble to the surface and then mysteriously go quiet? The racism thing gets played forever, Suarez will never hear the end of it for example. But this string of corruption stories, where do they go? What are the outcomes?

There's certainly corruption in the game, no doubt about that. How far does it extend? Is it worth investigating or best brushed under the carpet?

[fakeyank]

Yes, they are corrupt.

Man City has probably not had a bad decision against them all season so far. Barcelona get away with shit 99% of the time. Chelsea, Madrid, City, Monaco, PSG gives two fucks about the Fair Play rules and so far, nothing has happened to them!

Qatar were awarded the world cup.

/thread

[Niall_Quinn]

It sounds pretty paranoid to say that when we were top it was despite the corruption and that when other teams are doing well it's all because of corruption.
Especially when other teams' fans are equally paranoid and saying how much the media love Arsenal (have a look at glory glory, for example)
We can't lol at them and dismiss them as ridiculous without thinking a bit carefully about making the same claims ourselves.

Nothing paranoid about pointing out the shocking string of decisions city have been getting recently.

[Letters]

There's certainly corruption in the game, no doubt about that. How far does it extend? Is it worth investigating or best brushed under the carpet?Yes, it's worth investigating.

The thing is, in most games both sets of fans will say how crap the ref was and how biased against their own team he was. Why? Because we are biased.

[Letters]

Man City has probably not had a bad decision against them all season so far. Barcelona get away with shit 99% of the time.
Very hard to argue with made up facts and stats. You win.

[GP]

Yes, it's worth investigating.

The thing is, in most games both sets of fans will say how crap the ref was and how biased against their own team he was. Why? Because we are biased.

I hate Alan Pardew with a passion, but he was utterly robbed yesterday. The Lino even told the ref the goal was legit, but he still chalked it off.

Why? Hmmm...

[Niall_Quinn]

Very hard to argue with made up facts and stats. You win.

To be fair, if the cunt bastards at the FA can't be bothered to look at the stats then why should we do their job for them?

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Very hard to argue with made up facts and stats. You win.

Does anyone remember 'Chelsea Win 99% of Our Games' from 606?

What a character.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I think it would actually be harder to prove that there isn't any corruption rather than if there is.

Anyone think that the genuine result between us and Citeh should have been 6-6? What was it, 2 disallowed goals and a penalty turned down?

Then Barcodes yesterday?

[Syn]

Corruption or not, at least on the refereeing standards, it's very incompetent to allow the current level of errors that influence results so much. Video technology, in one way or another, should've been in a long time ago for the amount of money and interest riding on these decisions. I've always talked up a challenger system where each team can have one challenge. Presumably they'd save them for the mega controversial decisions like an offside goal, and the mins spent arguing with the referee would disappear with a 5 second check on a replay.

But the fact that it's not being implemented in some way is allowing more claims for corruption. Because, really, there's no reason not to. Tradition is important but sports are allowed to improve. Most high profile sports with a following have it now. Only football lags way behind.

[milla]

This board is corrupt. :coffee:

[IBK]

Replying to thread. No - there's no corruption only incompetence.

And IMHO there has always been incompetence. Its just now that every refereeing decision is endlessly analysed. In the past - with less wall to wall coverage and less riding on results financially, poor decisions didn't get the scrutiny they now do.

[-Xs-]

Which might have been acceptable before they turned pro. Surely there should be some kind of expectation of consistency and accuracy of decisions with a very high minimum acceptable percentage of errors

Does such a thing exist?

[IBK]

Which might have been acceptable before they turned pro. Surely there should be some kind of expectation of consistency and accuracy of decisions with a very high minimum acceptable percentage of errors

Does such a thing exist?

Been thinking about this a bit. I think times change. Human nature doesn't.

[Niall_Quinn]

I heard for every million passenger flights there's one crash. So competency is possible in some industries. Trouble with refs is they have too many people apologising for their astounding (which is what it is, astounding) incompetence. The FA, the media, pundits and even the fans, all commiserating with how hard it is to be a ref. Well steps could have been taken a long time ago to introduce at least some minimal competency to what is a multi billion quid industry after all. Certainly technology. Then there's this bullshit about players making it hard for the refs. And nothing gets done about it. A ten match ban for clear cases of cheating (like every time Bale plays), that should sort that out easily enough. A ten match ban for dissent, even if it did mean Utd would effectively cease to operate. A ten match ban for being a big girl's blouse and rolling all around the place every five minutes. They could fix a lot of the shit they use to apologise for these crappy refs.

Which is why they don't do it I suppose. Controversy sells and the scum that has floated to the top of the game is all about the money.

[IBK]

I heard for every million passenger flights there's one crash. So competency is possible in some industries. Trouble with refs is they have too many people apologising for their astounding (which is what it is, astounding) incompetence. The FA, the media, pundits and even the fans, all commiserating with how hard it is to be a ref. Well steps could have been taken a long time ago to introduce at least some minimal competency to what is a multi billion quid industry after all. Certainly technology. Then there's this bullshit about players making it hard for the refs. And nothing gets done about it. A ten match ban for clear cases of cheating (like every time Bale plays), that should sort that out easily enough. A ten match ban for dissent, even if it did mean Utd would effectively cease to operate. A ten match ban for being a big girl's blouse and rolling all around the place every five minutes. They could fix a lot of the shit they use to apologise for these crappy refs.

Which is why they don't do it I suppose. Controversy sells and the scum that has floated to the top of the game is all about the money.

Hmmm - I think the problem is that although the game has changed out of all recognition, our obsession with 'tradition' has meant that match officials are starved of the technology that would allow them to keep pace. I agree 100% though, that there is huge inconsistency in terms of disciplinary process. For example, I simply don't understand why violent conduct can be punished after the event but diving; or obvious offences that the ref has apparently seen but fked up isn't.

[JonasTC]

I think it would actually be harder to prove that there isn't any corruption rather than if there is.

Anyone think that the genuine result between us and Citeh should have been 6-6? What was it, 2 disallowed goals and a penalty turned down?

Then Barcodes yesterday?

Not to talk about the 2 offsides that would have seen us alone with the keeper. Negredo's offside goal and Milners best impression of Ashley Young for the penalty. I cant believe this game is being forgotten just because we played bad, this was as obvious as it could be.

[Penguin]

We've never had the refs under our influence.

we were just too good at the time and everyone hated us even more because of it.

People were absolutely convinced that we had the refs on our side during the unbeaten season. They would point to the Portsmouth game other decisions that went in our favour and cry about corruption and unfairness. They would point to a penalty that their team should have won or a player that shouldn't have got sent off and make a list of 'proof'. I remember having a good laugh at those whiny, jealous and bitter fans and ask myself 'how is it possible to become THAT bad of a loser?!'.

I just hope our fans aren't going the same way.

[KSE Comedy Club]

People were absolutely convinced that we had the refs on our side during the unbeaten season. They would point to the Portsmouth game other decisions that went in our favour and cry about corruption and unfairness. They would point to a penalty that their team should have won or a player that shouldn't have got sent off and make a list of 'proof'. I remember having a good laugh at those whiny, jealous and bitter fans and ask myself 'how is it possible to become THAT bad of a loser?!'.

I just hope our fans aren't going the same way.
Again I would say it was because it was us that other fans said that.

We were on our way to doin what no other team had done in PL history and win the title unbeaten. Being the underdogs, it was bound to be whinned about whenever a decision went our way.

It's never happened since.

The difference here is that fans are'nt moaning about the results of just our games, but pointing out the dodgy decisions of other games that we don't feature in.

That's isn't fans looking for blame or making excuses.

[LDG]

There have been some shocking decisions this season. "Mistakes" that we can all call from watching as live. Forget the replays.

These "mistakes" are very smelly indeed.

Like when Rooney never gets sent off.

[Letters]

This board is corrupt. :coffee:
If you hadn't given me that bribe I'd have deleted that post :sulk:

[Niall_Quinn]

Clever (in an, oh look, that monkey drew a picture, sort of way) article in the Daily Hitler today, I hold my nose and quote:

"Let’s finally dispel a widely-held myth. Manchester United are not awarded the most penalties in the Premier League. In fact, in the list of most spot-kicks awarded since the competition’s creation in 1992 they aren’t even in second place."

Now count the stonewall penalties that WEREN'T given, you assholes. That's what people complain about. Didn't Utd go a whole season without conceding one? And how many of their pens were obvious dives that a child could have spotted? But not a trained referee, for some bizarre reason that could be anything bar corruption because it is impossible to have that in the PL because we are British.

[-Xs-]

No corruption, they are just shit. And the FA is complicit in their shit-ness, simply because it doesn't want to lose such time honoured classics such as "You dont know what you're doing!" and "The referee's a wanker" from the repertoire of the English football crowd

[Niall_Quinn]

If it's simply incompetence in all cases, or even the majority, then why has the FA and other authorities sat on their hands (or each others cocks) and let this incompetence have such an impact? And why on earth would they be content to settle for dismissing it with a claim it all evens out anyway? If they are aware of the issue but do nothing about it then isn't that a form of corruption on their part?

Corruption isn't just taking money to influence results. Ignoring the rules because the home crowd will get angry, in other words choosing to cheat because you are afraid - that's a form of corruption. Saying you saw something when you didn't actually see it, that's lying, another form of corruption. Watching Rooney kick people and turning a blind eye. What's that? Evening the game up after making a bad decision - corruption.

The decision by Jones on the weekend can't be explained away by incompetence. He made a concious decision to act on something he can't have possibly seen and then he tried to justify it by pointing to evidence that simply doesn't exist. If it's not corruption (in the darker sense) then it's corruption in other ways. At the very least he knows he completely fucked up, but he chooses to lie about it. It's like me awarding a penalty for a foul in the centre circle. I say I thought it was in the box and that's the end of it? The FA response to this is to prevent him officiating at the top level for a number of games. But the 3 points still go to the gypos and the league table now stands corrupted as a result. Maybe they would have won it anyway, but who's to say that very obvious goal Newcastle scored and had chalked off won't have a bearing on the final outcome. We beat Liverpool to the title by a couple of goals, glad we didn't have that wanker refereeing or else one of our most glorious moments would have been wiped out.

There are remedies to all this, or at least steps that could be taken to alleviate the problem. But senior authorities in the game are against taking steps. I wonder why and it's legitimate to wonder why. And because there's more than enough evidence already on record to prove these guys are completely corrupt (in the, give them money and they'll influence outcomes, sense) I find it more logical to assume their actions in general are corrupt rather than just a series of innocent mishaps. And because they are responsible for appointing and administering the referees I don't think it is at all unreasonable to suggest their influence can extend onto the pitch itself. I'm not saying this is the case all the time or even most of the time but I'm saying it's a distinct possibility and shouldn't be dismissed so easily.

I tend to think the worst of bad people.

[Maestro]

If it's simply incompetence in all cases, or even the majority, then why has the FA and other authorities sat on their hands (or each others cocks) and let this incompetence have such an impact? And why on earth would they be content to settle for dismissing it with a claim it all evens out anyway? If they are aware of the issue but do nothing about it then isn't that a form of corruption on their part?

Corruption isn't just taking money to influence results. Ignoring the rules because the home crowd will get angry, in other words choosing to cheat because you are afraid - that's a form of corruption. Saying you saw something when you didn't actually see it, that's lying, another form of corruption. Watching Rooney kick people and turning a blind eye. What's that? Evening the game up after making a bad decision - corruption.

The decision by Jones on the weekend can't be explained away by incompetence. He made a concious decision to act on something he can't have possibly seen and then he tried to justify it by pointing to evidence that simply doesn't exist. If it's not corruption (in the darker sense) then it's corruption in other ways. At the very least he knows he completely fucked up, but he chooses to lie about it. It's like me awarding a penalty for a foul in the centre circle. I say I thought it was in the box and that's the end of it? The FA response to this is to prevent him officiating at the top level for a number of games. But the 3 points still go to the gypos and the league table now stands corrupted as a result. Maybe they would have won it anyway, but who's to say that very obvious goal Newcastle scored and had chalked off won't have a bearing on the final outcome. We beat Liverpool to the title by a couple of goals, glad we didn't have that wanker refereeing or else one of our most glorious moments would have been wiped out.

There are remedies to all this, or at least steps that could be taken to alleviate the problem. But senior authorities in the game are against taking steps. I wonder why and it's legitimate to wonder why. And because there's more than enough evidence already on record to prove these guys are completely corrupt (in the, give them money and they'll influence outcomes, sense) I find it more logical to assume their actions in general are corrupt rather than just a series of innocent mishaps. And because they are responsible for appointing and administering the referees I don't think it is at all unreasonable to suggest their influence can extend onto the pitch itself. I'm not saying this is the case all the time or even most of the time but I'm saying it's a distinct possibility and shouldn't be dismissed so easily.

I tend to think the worst of bad people.


:good:

/thread

[Letters]

It's weird how corruption always favours the best teams.
Apart from when it was us of course, then it was just us being awlsome and being the best despite all the corruption working against us
:paranoid:

[Letters]

:paranoid:
:lol:

:doh:

[milla]

If you hadn't given me that bribe I'd have deleted that post :sulk:

I will give you some more if you bring back Cripps :coffee:

[milla]

No corruption, they are just shit. And the FA is complicit in their shit-ness, simply because it doesn't want to lose such time honoured classics such as "You dont know what you're doing!" and "The referee's a wanker" from the repertoire of the English football crowd

Fuck this shite. If our local refs are bad, let's bring competent refs from Poland, India and Romania. They will be a lot cheaper too. :whistle:

[Bumble]

Not corrupt, and I doubt anyone on here would do a better job. Footballers make more errors than referees ever do.
Very rare that a ref really changes a result as opposed to the striker who misses 5 chances.

Mistakes happen everywhere in life, continually complaining about referees is tragic as it's only football.

[Özim]

Not corrupt, and I doubt anyone on here would do a better job. Footballers make more errors than referees ever do.
Very rare that a ref really changes a result as opposed to the striker who misses 5 chances.

Mistakes happen everywhere in life, continually complaining about referees is tragic as it's only football.

Pretty much agree with this, when a footballer missed most of his chances, he's just having a bad day (and yet footballers have been proven to be involved in corruption in other countries), but when refs make a mistake it's down to corruption.

They're human, the game is played at a fast pace and there's a lot of pressure on them from fans and players, so yes they do make mistakes but it's not down to corruption.

You could argue they should do better, but I think the rules of the game don't help them to make decisions based on common sense.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Whether you automatically say yes or no depends on your own inherent cynicism or basic faith in humankind.

The question is, with so much money swilling around the game and so many crooks, is it plausible that there is NO corruption in the English game?

Even if there isn't in the sense of taking bribes, how can anyone be sure that games are called straight down the line, fairly, and without personal bias?

Look at our record when Mike Dean's in charge and tell me that f*cker isn't bent.

[LDG]

http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Mike_Dean.jpg

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/thumb/831789259.gif?1388865551

[Letters]

Look at our record when Mike Dean's in charge and tell me that f*cker isn't bent.
OK. Let's. Our first 12 games when he reffed us our results were W10 D2 L0. But
a) They were almost all games we 'should' be winning and
b) They were from 2000-2006 when we were a better side than we were after that.

Since then the results when he's reffed us have been worse. Did he suddenly become biased against us? More likely it's that:
a) He's been put in charge of bigger games and
b) We've not been as good and we've been losing a lot of those big games.

It's not much of a head-scratcher if you look at the games...

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/arsenal-fc/schiedsrichterdetail/verein_11_379.html

[Power n Glory]

Whether you automatically say yes or no depends on your own inherent cynicism or basic faith in humankind.

The question is, with so much money swilling around the game and so many crooks, is it plausible that there is NO corruption in the English game?

Even if there isn't in the sense of taking bribes, how can anyone be sure that games are called straight down the line, fairly, and without personal bias?

Look at our record when Mike Dean's in charge and tell me that f*cker isn't bent.

:gp: and food for thought. I’ve seen people cut corners in McDonalds and try to scam free food so I don’t think it’s implausible for there to be corruption at a higher level in football.

Genuine mistakes can happen, they’re human, but being human also means refs are open to personal bias and corruption. It’s only a part time gig and I’m always wary of an institution that operates behind closed doors with no accountability. Faith and trust that everything is above board and fair is what keeps this system running. Appearances are everything and a story about corrupt refs would put a lot of people out of work. They could easily sweep such a scandal under the carpet and deal with it internally. I don’t understand why they are so reluctant to embrace video technology but it’s either corruption or incompetence.

[Syn]

OK. Let's. Our first 12 games when he reffed us our results were W10 D2 L0. But
a) They were almost all games we 'should' be winning and
b) They were from 2000-2006 when we were a better side than we were after that.

Since then the results when he's reffed us have been worse. Did he suddenly become biased against us? More likely it's that:
a) He's been put in charge of bigger games and
b) We've not been as good and we've been losing a lot of those big games.

It's not much of a head-scratcher if you look at the games...

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/arsenal-fc/schiedsrichterdetail/verein_11_379.html

Oh what a poast.

[Fist of Lehmann]

OK. Let's. Our first 12 games when he reffed us our results were W10 D2 L0. But
a) They were almost all games we 'should' be winning and
b) They were from 2000-2006 when we were a better side than we were after that.

Since then the results when he's reffed us have been worse. Did he suddenly become biased against us? More likely it's that:
a) He's been put in charge of bigger games and
b) We've not been as good and we've been losing a lot of those big games.

It's not much of a head-scratcher if you look at the games...

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/arsenal-fc/schiedsrichterdetail/verein_11_379.html

And yet even when you remove results for games against Chelsea, City or Utd (weirdly he has never reffed us against Liverpool) our win percentage is still around 10% lower than where you'd expect it to be.

And taken in isolation, of those tough games I removed, our records are still better under other refs.



DO NOT FORGET his gay Riverdance celebration after Spurs scored against us.

[Letters]

Where did you get the figure of 10%?
Looking at the games we've played while he's been reffing over the last 7 years or so (as I said, before that our results were excellent) they've mostly been big games. Take those out and you don't have a load of games, I'm not convinced a 10% difference - I'd be interested to know where you got that figure - is statistically significant.
And what about the first 12 games when we won 10 and drew 2? That is better than our aveage form even at our best, was he biased towards us then? If so why did he change? It's more plausible that our results were better because we were better and they were easier games and now they're worse because we are and they're generally harder games.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

(weirdly he has never reffed... Liverpool)

He can't due to geographical reasons.

[Marc Overmars]

Where did you get the figure of 10%?
Looking at the games we've played while he's been reffing over the last 7 years or so (as I said, before that our results were excellent) they've mostly been big games. Take those out and you don't have a load of games, I'm not convinced a 10% difference - I'd be interested to know where you got that figure - is statistically significant.
And what about the first 12 games when we won 10 and drew 2? That is better than our aveage form even at our best, was he biased towards us then? If so why did he change? It's more plausible that our results were better because we were better and they were easier games and now they're worse because we are and they're generally harder games.

yeah but the wef is cowupt

[Xhaka Can’t]

There is corruption at every level of the game. It is why we have a World Cup in Qatar. It is why FFP will always be meaningless. It is why there is no scrutiny of ownership within English football.

Its laughable that those thinking this corruption does not filter down to influencing the outcome of competitions and individual matches with all the money and egos of some of the most shady and powerful criminals in the world at stake are the ones accusing those stating the plainly obvious of wearing tin hats.

[Letters]

There is clearly some corruption in the game, it's impossible to know the extent of it or what effect it has on individual results. What we need to be wary of though is paranoid claims that all the refs and/or media are working against us or for City/Utd/Whoever. Especially as fans of other clubs are just as paranoid and make the exact opposite claim, claims we often laugh at so let's not do the same ourselves.

[Niall_Quinn]

There is corruption at every level of the game. It is why we have a World Cup in Qatar. It is why FFP will always be meaningless. It is why there is no scrutiny of ownership within English football.

Its laughable that those thinking this corruption does not filter down to influencing the outcome of competitions and individual matches with all the money and egos of some of the most shady and powerful criminals in the world at stake are the ones accusing those stating the plainly obvious of wearing tin hats.

Some people connect dots, others focus on dots in isolation.

[Letters]

Some people consider evidence and make arguments others make wild, vague accusations with no backup.

[GP]

Some people call me Maurice.

[Power n Glory]

Considering what's been said about the World Cup draw, FFP rules, club ownership....you'd have to be naive to think there isn't. They're is no accountability and considering the level of corruption we've all seen in other institutions such as the police, media, banking, why isn't it any different for Football?

Series A was the best league in the world with money flowing before the shit hit the fan. That league is crippled now since news of the match fixing broke. Nobody in these organisations wants to see their league sunk like that. We've had recent reports of players taking bribes in England so it wouldn't surprise me if a part time ref is on the take.

[Niall_Quinn]

Some people consider evidence and make arguments others make wild, vague accusations with no backup.

And then there are those who only accept evidence beyond all reasonable doubt as if life is a court case, turning a blind eye to every part of an issue unless unimpeachable proof is presented in relation to all parts and in triplicate. Even then they have a habit of speaking about "isolated incidents." Used to be a time when ignorance was bliss, now it's an obligatory pass to get into the cool club.

[LDG]

Some people call me Maurice.

:whistle:

[Niall_Quinn]

:whistle:

Ignore him, he's a thread rapist.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Where did you get the figure of 10%?
Looking at the games we've played while he's been reffing over the last 7 years or so (as I said, before that our results were excellent) they've mostly been big games. Take those out and you don't have a load of games, I'm not convinced a 10% difference - I'd be interested to know where you got that figure - is statistically significant.
And what about the first 12 games when we won 10 and drew 2? That is better than our aveage form even at our best, was he biased towards us then? If so why did he change? It's more plausible that our results were better because we were better and they were easier games and now they're worse because we are and they're generally harder games.

Using your website I did the math based on 3 randomly selected refs with around 25+ Arsenal games each (Clattenberg, Atkinson, Foy).

A deeper analysis might have told a different story but frankly I didn't have time or inclination to do more.

[Letters]

Stopped reading at 'math' :sulk:

[Fist of Lehmann]

Stopped reading at 'math' :sulk:

:lol:

Grandma Nazis. I hate those guys :sulk:

[Fist of Lehmann]

Ah shit fecking auto correct.

[LDG]

My Nan was a Grandma nazi.

[Letters]

:lol:

Those are my favourite kinds of Nazis tbf.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Every year she'd knit you a new gas chamber and you'd have to pretend to be really happy about it.

[LDG]

:haha:

[Letters]

:haha:

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Systematic and organised corruption by the FA? Probably not.

However are certain clubs getting more favourable decisions than others because of their status. Yes.

And are certain refs letting their personal bias influence their decision making. Yes.


I said it in the match thread but the following refs need to be investigated and their and their family and friends finance's audited. It would not surprise me if a "distant cousin once removed" was getting mysterious payments via their Caymann Islands savings account.


Mike Riley
Steve Bennett
Mike Dean
Phil Dowd
Graham Poll


All fucking bent as a fiddler's elbow.

I'll throw Martin Atkinson in there as well. He's always been a bit dodgy.

And it's pretty despicable that one of the biggest cheats on that list has managed to worm his way up to the position of referee appointer for the PL.

[LDG]

Lee Mason?

Or he could just be fat.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Lee Mason?

Or he could just be fat.

I regard the likes of Lee Mason, Mike Jones, Howard Webb and Anthony Taylor as just incompetent rather than corrupt.



They seem to thick too pull something like that off.

[Xhaka Can’t]

too thick to

[LDG]

:haha:

[milla]

Lee Mason?

Or he could just be fat.

Look into the mirror bro. :run:

[KSE Comedy Club]

It's weird how corruption always favours the best teams.
Apart from when it was us of course, then it was just us being awlsome and being the best despite all the corruption working against us
:paranoid:
Corruption follows the money. Back in the day it was utd, then chavs, now it's man city.
They had/have all the buzz and media backing, so naturally corruption follows where it can make the most gains.

When we were good and winning, we were pretty much hated by mostly everyone else. We've always been the underdogs, no one wanted us to win anything especially goin the whole season unbeaten.

It was against the norm and we also didn't have continuous and sustained success, it was a bit more patchy, a title here an fa cup there, etc.

Man U had the consistency and generated the most money and interest.

Come on letters, even you can understand that.

[GP]

Paranoia :haha:

There's definitely no corruption in the richest and most popular league in the world.

[Letters]

Paranoia :haha:

There's definitely no corruption in the richest and most popular league in the world.
Are "there's no corruption" and "the refs and media are always anti-Arsenal" the only two options?

[GP]

Are "there's no corruption" and "the refs and media are always anti-Arsenal" the only two options?

Who's said they're anti-Arsenal.

Only you've said that.

[IBK]

Corruption's not the same thing as weakness and bias, so no.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Also, why do we never hear talk of officials in other sports (that use technology to help make their decisions) getting things wrong on a regular basis?

Are tennis matches talked about because of how well the competitors played or about how the umpire called a game wrong?

Rugby?
Cricket?

Yes sometimes, there have been cases where a player might question a decision, but after a replay or technological evidence is used, the matter is cleared up instantly one way or another. But accurately and most importantly, correctly.

You cannot say the same about football.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Corruption's not the same thing as weakness and bias, so no.

Weakness, no I agree.

But bias?

Of course it is. Not necessarily for financial gain but in some sense it is still corruption.

[Niall_Quinn]

Corruption's not the same thing as weakness and bias, so no.

Weakness is often a symptom of corruption and bias is one of the purest forms of corruption because you don't even need to be paid to undermine a system or principle.

[Özim]

Also, why do we never hear talk of officials in other sports (that use technology to help make their decisions) getting things wrong on a regular basis?

Are tennis matches talked about because of how well the competitors played or about how the umpire called a game wrong?

Rugby?
Cricket?

Yes sometimes, there have been cases where a player might question a decision, but after a replay or technological evidence is used, the matter is cleared up instantly one way or another. But accurately and most importantly, correctly.

You cannot say the same about football.

You only get 3 challenges a set in tennis, so yes there's plenty of mistakes, people don't go on about it because unlike football fans they don't believe corruption exists.

Again with Cricket they have limited use of technology and there's plenty of mistakes and there's been corruption in Cricket yet people don't point the finger at official calling them corrupt.

[KSE Comedy Club]

NQ said it better than me :good:

[KSE Comedy Club]

You only get 3 challenges a set in tennis, so yes there's plenty of mistakes, people don't go on about it because unlike football fans they don't believe corruption exists.

Again with Cricket they have limited use of technology and there's plenty of mistakes and there's been corruption in Cricket yet people don't point the finger at official calling them corrupt.
Of course there are.

That's all I ever hear from tennis, cricket and rugby fans. Every game it's the same thing 'the umpires/refs are shite', 'that was never a.....' etc, etc.

:rolleyes:

[Özim]

Of course there are.

That's all I ever hear from tennis, cricket and rugby fans. Every game it's the same thing 'the umpires/refs are shite', 'that was never a.....' etc, etc.

:rolleyes:

That's nonsense sorry, I watch a lot of tennis and noone ever claims the officials are corrupt (well other than Jeff Tarango when he wasn't happy about a decision).

Fans seem obsessed with it in football, I guess football fans like to play the victims more than tennis fans, if it doesn't go your way it's because the officials are corrupt or biased against you.

[KSE Comedy Club]

That's nonsense sorry, I watch a lot of tennis and noone ever claims the officials are corrupt (well other than Jeff Tarango when he wasn't happy about a decision).

Fans seem obsessed with it in football, I guess football fans like to play the victims more than tennis fans.
I was being sarcastic.

The reason fans don't call them corrupt is because mistakes are few and far between. There are some yes, but they don't happen with the frequent regularity that they do in football.

There's also only so much they can get wrong in sports where technology is used to its full extent.

There is fuck all in football, and so we just have to trust in shit like 'the refs interpretation' and 'judgement'.

You know, the same sort of amateur crap that used to happen in playground football.

[Niall_Quinn]

You have to try to filter out the natural and commendable bias of the fans to spot cheating. I say cheating because I think some people believe money has to change hands before you can call it corruption. That ref's blatant cheating in the Newcastle/ City match probably had every fan in the country scratching their head. If that really was a mistake then that ref has to be banned forever. Dowd in the 4-4 with Newcastle, again blatant cheating. The ref in the chav/ Barcelona match, blatant cheating. RvP being sent off against Barcelona, blatant cheating. That's off the top of my head, there will be countless other examples. These weren't just mistakes - that's like me shooting somebody in the face and claiming incompetence with firearms. What was I doing with the gun in the first place and why are these referees even allowed on the pitch? Can't we find any competent people to do the job? Are we even looking or are the turds we have convenient? I think they are. Best place of all to hide corruption is in a sea of incompetence. You see the same thing with politicians.

[Özim]

I was being sarcastic.

The reason fans don't call them corrupt is because mistakes are few and far between. There are some yes, but they don't happen with the frequent regularity that they do in football.

There's also only so much they can get wrong in sports where technology is used to its full extent.

There is fuck all in football, and so we just have to trust in shit like 'the refs interpretation' and 'judgement'.

You know, the same sort of amateur crap that used to happen in playground football.

That's not necessarily true either, I've seen matches where there's been 3 clear errors in a game, there's errors as well as technology is only used to add to the drama, like I said 3 challenges a set per player.

Errors in tennis are more clear cut, it's either in or out, in football it's not quite that simple, players fall over like they've been shot (cheat) and referees are running up and down the pitch seeing incidents from allsorts of angle, the fans are screaming for decisions, I'm sure it's not that easy, in tennis they have lots of personnel and they don't have to move so it's harder to make mistakes and they only have to watch the ball.

Like I said though in tennis technology is used to add to the spectacle not to replace the officials, it's got a limited use.

[KSE Comedy Club]

You have to try to filter out the natural and commendable bias of the fans to spot cheating. I say cheating because I think some people believe money has to change hands before you can call it corruption. That ref's blatant cheating in the Newcastle/ City match probably had every fan in the country scratching their head. If that really was a mistake then that ref has to be banned forever. Dowd in the 4-4 with Newcastle, again blatant cheating. The ref in the chav/ Barcelona match, blatant cheating. RvP being sent off against Barcelona, blatant cheating. That's off the top of my head, there will be countless other examples. These weren't just mistakes - that's like me shooting somebody in the face and claiming incompetence with firearms. What was I doing with the gun in the first place and why are these referees even allowed on the pitch? Can't we find any competent people to do the job? Are we even looking or are the turds we have convenient? I think they are. Best place of all to hide corruption is in a sea of incompetence. You see the same thing with politicians.

Absolutely, spot on.

[KSE Comedy Club]

That's not necessarily true either, I've seen matches where there's been 3 clear errors in a game, there's errors as well as technology is only used to add to the drama, like I said 3 challenges a set per player.

Errors in tennis are more clear cut, it's either in or out, in football it's not quite that simple, players fall over like they've been shot (cheat) and referees are running up and down the pitch seeing incidents from allsorts of angle, the fans are screaming for decisions, I'm sure it's not that easy, in tennis they have lots of personnel and they don't have to move so it's harder to make mistakes and they only have to watch the ball.

Like I said though in tennis technology is used to add to the spectacle not to replace the officials, it's got a limited use.
I would say it's harder to see if a small yellow ball travelling at 100 mph has landed one side of a line or not.

When a ref is in clear view of someone tripping another player in the box and not touching the ball and then waving for 'no penalty' is just ignoring the rules and cheating.

Also watching a player bang in a 30 yarder that is a clear goal in any other game on any other weekend of football, then running over to the linesman for a chat and declaring it 'offside' is cheating.

It's really time for the excuses for these so called 'professionally trained' referee's to stop.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

You have to try to filter out the natural and commendable bias of the fans to spot cheating. I say cheating because I think some people believe money has to change hands before you can call it corruption. That ref's blatant cheating in the Newcastle/ City match probably had every fan in the country scratching their head. If that really was a mistake then that ref has to be banned forever. Dowd in the 4-4 with Newcastle, again blatant cheating. The ref in the chav/ Barcelona match, blatant cheating. RvP being sent off against Barcelona, blatant cheating. That's off the top of my head, there will be countless other examples. These weren't just mistakes - that's like me shooting somebody in the face and claiming incompetence with firearms. What was I doing with the gun in the first place and why are these referees even allowed on the pitch? Can't we find any competent people to do the job? Are we even looking or are the turds we have convenient? I think they are. Best place of all to hide corruption is in a sea of incompetence. You see the same thing with politicians.

That is a top top top post.

[Globalgunner]

in other news the world famous former United referee. Howard Webb, has again been selected to ruin another world cup. No news yet on whether the die hard United apostle Phil Dowd will also carry his pot belly to Brazil

[Mr. Lahey]

http://www.declanhill.com/

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.declanhill.com/

Interesting site, thanks.

"Here is the rub for any thinking British football fan. The response by the British Football Associations to match-fixing has been so bad that FIFA is far better. Imagine. FIFA the association almost synonymously with corruption scandals is better at fighting match-fixing than British Football Associations. Sigh. Says it all really."
http://www.declanhill.com/blog/item/uk-match-fixing-iv-good-news-and-a-sigh

[Xhaka Can’t]

I am now genuinely convinced there is no corruption in the EPL.

[footloose, the wanderer]

We all know their is corruption in FIFA and UEFA, we just dont know how far it stretches out, does it go all the way down to the refs at times?

One would be naive in the extreme to think it couldn't happen, I think it depends on the occasion on when it actually does happen

[Maestro]

corruption, incompetence and blatant cheating by most refs now in the league

[AFC Leveller]

Yep; I agree.

Just think for a second here, the chief of the match officials is the same guy who awarded Man ure that pel in 2004 and subsequently ended our run. He was bent as fuck back then.

[Niall_Quinn]

The unholy trinity. Demonstrably, in your face, Blatteresque corruption at top of the game. These are the people setting the standards and direction for the game. Then you have television and the billions of quid the likes of Murdoch chuck into the game. This is the guy who bugs the phones of parents of dead children. Finally gambling. You could always go down to the bookies and have a flutter, but now you have the bookies sponsoring the sport and technology allows millions to be harvested from the fans every game. These are the people and organisations setting the tone.

So do we have corruption in football? It would be a miracle if we didn't. Add in the grubby criminals that have been allowed to buy up the clubs. Chuck millions at the kids who are playing the game. Money, money, money. It's the cancer that destroys everything it touches. Football has become another ingredient of a corrupted society, led by self serving crooks and exploiting the inertia of a fan base that still concerns itself with competition and loyalty and endeavour and achievement and all that other prehistoric stuff.

The refs are problem, no doubt. But a minor one compared to the monumental problems the game faces. Controversy sells. In this respect the refs are doing a great job for their paymasters. Wittingly or unwittingly in service of the few at the expense of the many. Instead of developing technology to further exploit fans that have already been raped by runaway costs we could have had technology to assist refs in making those split second decisions someone like Collini could somehow make but the PL lot can't manage. But that would spoil everything. In a way it's a good decision. Because now we have dopers infecting every league how could they be defeated if the ref managed to get every call right? Everything in the game has to be fixed at once if we want to get back to real sport.

[Maestro]

The unholy trinity. Demonstrably, in your face, Blatteresque corruption at top of the game. These are the people setting the standards and direction for the game. Then you have television and the billions of quid the likes of Murdoch chuck into the game. This is the guy who bugs the phones of parents of dead children. Finally gambling. You could always go down to the bookies and have a flutter, but now you have the bookies sponsoring the sport and technology allows millions to be harvested from the fans every game. These are the people and organisations setting the tone.

So do we have corruption in football? It would be a miracle if we didn't. Add in the grubby criminals that have been allowed to buy up the clubs. Chuck millions at the kids who are playing the game. Money, money, money. It's the cancer that destroys everything it touches. Football has become another ingredient of a corrupted society, led by self serving crooks and exploiting the inertia of a fan base that still concerns itself with competition and loyalty and endeavour and achievement and all that other prehistoric stuff.

The refs are problem, no doubt. But a minor one compared to the monumental problems the game faces. Controversy sells. In this respect the refs are doing a great job for their paymasters. Wittingly or unwittingly in service of the few at the expense of the many. Instead of developing technology to further exploit fans that have already been raped by runaway costs we could have had technology to assist refs in making those split second decisions someone like Collini could somehow make but the PL lot can't manage. But that would spoil everything. In a way it's a good decision. Because now we have dopers infecting every league how could they be defeated if the ref managed to get every call right? Everything in the game has to be fixed at once if we want to get back to real sport.

Nail on the fuckin' head

Football is one of the best generators of and laundrette for vast amounts of filthy money. A lot of people would pay with their lives if they ever tried to properly clean up the game.

[Syn]

SILLY SZCZESNY SEEN SHOWER SMOKING. SELL SHIT SICKO.