Should we give up?

[IBK]

Firstly, can I say that I despise what Citeh, and to a slightly lesser extent the Chavs are doing to our league. It sickens me the way the whole football world is creaming their pants about the City 'goal machine' and the genius of Pellegrini - when the reality is that he inherited a billion pound squad, and then added at least 3 of the world's best players to it. Fuck's sake, will no pundit or commentator ever point out that for all of this money, Citeh have under-achieved in the past and bloody well should be out of sight in the league and playing the best football on earth? As for Maureen - reporters should be savaging him rather than sucking him off for the way he plays, and the pitiful excuses he makes, despite the ridiculous funds at his disposal.

I'd go so far as to say that these 2 clubs have done more to turm me off football altogether than any number of trophyless years as an Arsenal fan.

But ranting over - I want to ask those who say we can't compete against the billionaires whether we should just throw in the towel and accept that we will never win anything again? Because no matter how well run Arsenal is; no matter what our commercial success is using a proper business model - we will never compete financially unless we go the same route as Citeh; Chelsea; PSG; Monaco (we will never get the state aid of RM or Barca; and we will of course never have top dog status like Bayern). We can hope all we like, but PSG have shown in stark relef the pointlessness of FFP - and the reality is that there is so much money swilling around the game, and the EPL will forever be bloated with TV money - that there simply won't be a 'crash' when rich owners lose interest. The future is likely only to see more money, not less, invested in our competitors.

So, if we accept that this season is steroid Citeh's for the taking - and that the future will see just as much, if not more financial doping - then what's the point? Do we accept that our once proud club is now doomed to accept CL football as the summit of our achievements - and if so do we all need to alter our position as fans permanently, and concentrate simply on enjoying the wins we get on matchdays, without harbouring any greater ambition than that? What's the point of making limited progress this season if we all accept that we are not going, realistically to win the league this season; next season; the season after.

And should we all stop criticising club and/or manager if finishing top 4 is the best we are ever realistically going to do?

[Niall_Quinn]

The economy is in a much, much worse state than the lying politicians are letting on. TV money will be jeopardised as fewer fans can afford the ridiculous prices charged by Sky. Gate receipts will drop as fewer corporations endorse jollies and more fans are priced out of the seats. The International courts and UN are paying more attention to the vicious animals who run city and the human rights abuses and slave trade they are notorious for. The gangster Abramovich rides around in a bulletproof car and sails a yacht equipped with surface to air missiles and an escape submarine. His life depends on staying in favour with the despot Putin. Lots of things can happen, currently everything is being held together by rubber bands. If a few snap then we could see some dramatic changes.

Remember, public relations and corporate spin is all about coating the puss dripping reality. As with everything to do with money, it's a faith based proposition. If the faith dissolves then the reality is exposed.

What we can say, even if we hate it in many ways, is our club has been run as a proper business. So we are better prepared for any eventuality.

[Power n Glory]

Until we start making use of the funds we have earned, I won't accept that we have no chance against the oil rich clubs. If we fail again this season, I'll look back on this day with sheer frustration.

[fakeyank]

Until we start making use of the funds we have earned, I won't accept that we have no chance against the oil rich clubs. If we fail again this season, I'll look back on this day with sheer frustration.

Exactly! SAF won the league despite these two shit teams. Shows what you can do with decent resources and a great manager. We have the resources now but we do not have a SAF or a great manager.

[Özim]

I think we could compete, we just need a manager who's not risk averse.

Wenger is showing in this transfer window what he's been showing for years, he hasn't got the stomach for the fight, any other manager would be looking at strengthening the team to give us something extra in the title race, he goes and signs some has been crock who hasn't played for 3 months and who will have no impact at all.

That sums it up really.

[JonasTC]

Exactly! SAF won the league despite these two shit teams. Shows what you can do with decent resources and a great manager. We have the resources now but we do not have a SAF or a great manager.

You're a fucking spoiled brat, go cheer for City or smth. Wenger has taken this club from average to one of the biggest clubs in the world, and we are today one of the few clubs with a healthy economy. He could easily have taken a job at an infinite money club earlier in his career and win a couple of trophies and be called "the great one" like Mourinho or whatever.

[fakeyank]

You're a fucking spoiled brat, go cheer for City or smth. Wenger has taken this club from average to one of the biggest clubs in the world, and we are today one of the few clubs with a healthy economy. He could easily have taken a job at an infinite money club earlier in his career and win a couple of trophies and be called "the great one" like Mourinho or whatever.

He shouldve left tbh.. Wouldve loved to see if he won anything elsewhere. Unfortunately he is still with us..

[GP]

You should

[IBK]

I think we could compete, we just need a manager who's not risk averse.

Wenger is showing in this transfer window what he's been showing for years, he hasn't got the stomach for the fight, any other manager would be looking at strengthening the team to give us something extra in the title race, he goes and signs some has been crock who hasn't played for 3 months and who will have no impact at all.

That sums it up really.

I agree with your summary of the transfer window, Zimm, but I genuinely think that Wenger is both our greatest asset and our limiting factor. When you consider everything - including the development of players - there are arguably no better managers in the league. SAF could have won the league with our squad, but he is a one off. Mourinho and Pellegrini couldn't - and even if we spent what we can - I'm not sure they could pull it off without their owners' billions.

You only have to look at Chelsea's succession of 'big name' managers - or Spur's chopping and changing to see that it would be very, very difficult to succeed with a new manager who would come inevitably with weaker area's - whether in reputation; eye for a developmental player or technical expertise - than Wenger has. What makes me tear mmy hair out is Wenger's seeming choice, every time, to manage with the handbreak on - and his aversion to seeking coaching (tactical?) assistance.

[IBK]

You're a fucking spoiled brat, go cheer for City or smth. Wenger has taken this club from average to one of the biggest clubs in the world, and we are today one of the few clubs with a healthy economy. He could easily have taken a job at an infinite money club earlier in his career and win a couple of trophies and be called "the great one" like Mourinho or whatever.

We won lots of trophies before Wenger, you know?

[JonasTC]

We won lots of trophies before Wenger, you know?

Really?

[BEES Fan]

I am obviously not a Gooner and don`t thus have to pay top money to see a game of a football, but I think you need to remember you could be a club in turmoil and no future expansion fully defined - like a certain club like THFC.

I am sure those who remember the days of Arsenal under Don Howe, will think things have been a lot worse.

Chin up.

[IBK]

I am obviously not a Gooner and don`t thus have to pay top money to see a game of a football, but I think you need to remember you could be a club in turmoil and no future expansion fully defined - like a certain club like THFC.

I am sure those who remember the days of Arsenal under Don Howe, will think things have been a lot worse.

Chin up.

:gp: You are right, of course, and we are spoilt. But there are degrees, and having been the best - fustration is justified. in a different way to your lot, granted, but still understandable.

[BEES Fan]

:gp: You are right, of course, and we are spoilt. But there are degrees, and having been the best - fustration is justified. in a different way to your lot, granted, but still understandable.

Fair enough. I think my envy of your club as an outsider may blind me to the fans frustrations.

I am going to retreat to the safety of my own club supporting frustrations.

[Letters]

We won lots of trophies before Wenger, you know?
In the 30's we did. After that we were never a consistently successful, we won trophies here and there but it was pretty sporadic. We had a good spell under Graham but towards the end of that we were awfully boring to watch and our league form was horrible. We finished something like 6 points above the relegation zone in the 92/93 season when we won both domestic cups.

Wenger took us to a whole new level, we've not sustained that in terms of trophies but the footballing landscape has changed with the billionaires sticking their beaks in. Without Wenger we wouldn't be in the new stadium, wouldn't be as big a club as we are and wouldn't have a hope of competing. We're 1 point off thr top and the team above us have spent a billion quid to get there. I don't believe we'll win the league but I don't see that as the criteria for success this season, especially after the last 2 years when we've just limped into the top 4.

[Letters]

:gp: You are right, of course, and we are spoilt. But there are degrees, and having been the best - fustration is justified. in a different way to your lot, granted, but still understandable.

Frustration is understandable when Wenger doesn't seem to have been making the most of our resources, yes it's hard to compete with the billionaires but we give ourselves no chance if we're not willing to spend big where we can. There does seem to have been a long term strategy though, the commercial deals which restricted us look poor now but we needed the guaranteed income to help pay for the stadium and now we have improved those deals we look to be well placed to compete more seriously. Ozil was a sign that we are ready to step up now. We need more and it would have been nice to get that in this window but so long as we do the right things this summer to push on then I'll be fairly content with the direction the club is heading in.

[Niall_Quinn]

Frustration is understandable when Wenger doesn't seem to have been making the most of our resources, yes it's hard to compete with the billionaires but we give ourselves no chance if we're not willing to spend big where we can. There does seem to have been a long term strategy though, the commercial deals which restricted us look poor now but we needed the guaranteed income to help pay for the stadium and now we have improved those deals we look to be well placed to compete more seriously. Ozil was a sign that we are ready to step up now. We need more and it would have been nice to get that in this window but so long as we do the right things this summer to push on then I'll be fairly content with the direction the club is heading in.

Trouble is, it could well be the same deal in the summer with Wenger not able to find a "fair" price for the player(s) we'll need to climb the last step. Draxler is a gamble, fair enough, but picture the scene if he was arriving for a medical now rather than still sat in Germany actually wanting to come but with Wenger haggling the deal to death. We could have made a bold statement to the fans, the players and football in general and we could have afforded it. If Wenger is saving up for the ideal player at the ideal price then we'll be waiting a long time.

[IBK]

Frustration is understandable when Wenger doesn't seem to have been making the most of our resources, yes it's hard to compete with the billionaires but we give ourselves no chance if we're not willing to spend big where we can. There does seem to have been a long term strategy though, the commercial deals which restricted us look poor now but we needed the guaranteed income to help pay for the stadium and now we have improved those deals we look to be well placed to compete more seriously. Ozil was a sign that we are ready to step up now. We need more and it would have been nice to get that in this window but so long as we do the right things this summer to push on then I'll be fairly content with the direction the club is heading in.

Excellent post. But what I have started to question now, when FFP is obviously moribund and there's no sign that the sugar daddy era will end is will waiting be rewarded? I'm no longer sure....