Match reaction vs Pool

[Özim]

Sometimes it all just makes me want to cry like a bitch.

Wah, wah, wah, mummy.

Don't slip on your tears.

[JonasTC]

You seem to have an excuse for all our bad results, if we lose to City and Villa it's because of the ref, sure there are bad decisions but we didn't lose because of the ref (that's a cop out) we lost because they played better than us and we conceded 6 against City and 3 against Villa. If we lose to Man U it's because they're champions despite them losing to all and sundry this season.

Noone said all our players our sh*t, but the points about Wenger are very valid, who in their right minds goes into the season with the forwards we have, given that one is rarely played up front and is injury prone, one wanted out, one is a kid and was signed injured and has been every since and the other has not proved himself to be top class.

Unfortunately he's limiting our development due to his management style, both in terms of adequately strengthening the team/squad, tactics and motivating his players.

People expect us to make the most of what we have and after 8 years it's not unreasonable, who wants to keep seeing a side who collapse when it matters because their manager is unable to install the right mentality and refuses to sign the right players?

Ozil is a quality player no doubt, but he's played in the wrong system and looks pretty unhappy at the moment, he was voted best player in Germany mainly based on his performances for Real where he created a hatful of chances, for us he's found it tough, but it's his first season and he plays in a team that move the ball forward at snails pace, when he likes to run with the ball and create in fast moving attacks.

We've done well this season, but in the last few months we've been scraping wins with pretty poor performances and have only got away with it due to playing teams unable to take advantage of our very sluggish performances.

Now we're reaching crunch time and once again we seem to be coming unstuck (we're fortunate we'll be meeting one of the worst Man U sides in recent history on Wednesday, a team we still managed to lose to somehow), it remains to be seen whether it will continue, but the safe money would be that come March we'll fail to pick up the necessary points and get knocked out of the CL as we always have done, it's down to mentality, preparation and studying the opposition (or a lack of studying in our case). People have had their concerns over the last couple of months but have pretty much kept quiet as we've been winning, even though if we're honest it's been poor but after this beating their entitled to vent their frustrations without being called "brats" as you call them (how patronising can you be?).

The trick is to learn from your previous experiences, Wenger never seems to and therein lies the problem.

But zim, the villa and city games were heavily influenced by the ref, its not an excuse, its a fact. If the output had been the same with a proper ref, remains to be seen.

He went after Higuain, but to be fair, i think 35m is to much aswell when somebody tells him that he could get Suarez for 40m, when that didnt happend, Higuain was already sold. But to be fair, at that time i dont think Suarez was worth more than 40 either, he had only had one good season for Liverpool and had big disciplinary problems, looking back we should probably just had rasised our offer, but it always easy to look back and wish you had done differently. This is not football manager, it takes time to negotiate and so on, so you cant just jump around from deal to deal, when one dont work out.

He got rid of death weight, didnt sell any of our good players and added a world class player, i would say thats strengthing our squad and the results tells us the same, come january he got rid of more deathweight, but didnt strength because there was no proper deals out there (feel free to prove me wrong). This summer we'll get rid of even more deathweight and probably the biggest clown this club ever had (Bendtner) and therefor Wenger will 100% add a quality striker and probably even throw silly money after it, if everything goes wrong.

Zim come on, you dont believe that he actually got those awards for just being good in last season? Messi werent in the best-11 and his last season was crazy :)

Utd scraped wins for years, its what champions do, they play shit at times and still win.

I would say Wenger have shown this season that he have learned from previous experiences, just because he didnt throw silly money after a bad/decent player in january, doesnt mean everything is the same old. City couldnt even get what they wanted and they're willing to throw silly money at everything.

I dont think everything is a walk on roses, but i do believe that we're close to having a championship team and it seems like we're working hard towards it. In past transfer windows and so on, there's been some factors that sadly have worked against us and therefor we've been handling the transfer window with little bit the handbrake on. This summer there is non, absolute nothing that can work against us, we have the money, we only have 1 striker left, who's not good enough to get us the goals we need, there is quality strikers available out there, etc. by then IF he doesnt add a top striker (and a proper holding midfielder aswell), i will probably be joining the Wenger-Out Express, but until that, i'll be supporting this team with as much positivy as possible.

[Özim]

But zim, the villa and city games were heavily influenced by the ref, its not an excuse, its a fact. If the output had been the same with a proper ref, remains to be seen.

He went after Higuain, but to be fair, i think 35m is to much aswell when somebody tells him that he could get Suarez for 40m, when that didnt happend, Higuain was already sold. But to be fair, at that time i dont think Suarez was worth more than 40 either, he had only had one good season for Liverpool and had big disciplinary problems, looking back we should probably just had rasised our offer, but it always easy to look back and wish you had done differently. This is not football manager, it takes time to negotiate and so on, so you cant just jump around from deal to deal, when one dont work out.

He got rid of death weight, didnt sell any of our good players and added a world class player, i would say thats strengthing our squad and the results tells us the same, come january he got rid of more deathweight, but didnt strength because there was no proper deals out there (feel free to prove me wrong). This summer we'll get rid of even more deathweight and probably the biggest clown this club ever had (Bendtner) and therefor Wenger will 100% add a quality striker and probably even throw silly money after it, if everything goes wrong.

Zim come on, you dont believe that he actually got those awards for just being good in last season? Messi werent in the best-11 and his last season was crazy :)

Utd scraped wins for years, its what champions do, they play shit at times and still win.

I would say Wenger have shown this season that he have learned from previous experiences, just because he didnt throw silly money after a bad/decent player in january, doesnt mean everything is the same old. City couldnt even get what they wanted and they're willing to throw silly money at everything.

I dont think everything is a walk on roses, but i do believe that we're close to having a championship team and it seems like we're working hard towards it. In past transfer windows and so on, there's been some factors that sadly have worked against us and therefor we've been handling the transfer window with little bit the handbrake on. This summer there is non, absolute nothing that can work against us, we have the money, we only have 1 striker left, who's not good enough to get us the goals we need, there is quality strikers available out there, etc. by then IF he doesnt add a top striker (and a proper holding midfielder aswell), i will probably be joining the Wenger-Out Express, but until that, i'll be supporting this team with as much positivy as possible.

Sure the ref made mistakes however would if have changed the result, who knows, I personally doubt it against City as they were just too good going forward (their goal record speak for itself).

Regarding the striker situation, we always seem to drag it out, we had 3 months to do our business and failed, there's no excuse for that. You put a timeline on your potential signing and if it doesn't happen you move on, most importantly though you make sure you sign one if you need one, there were plenty going around in the summer and you can always find a player if you try hard enough, it's not football manager but we're supposed to have a vast scouting network and should have all our targets identified long before the summer arrives and should look to get these deals done early, not drag them out until the 31st of August a month after the season has started.

I rate Ozil very highly, but overall he hasn't been great for us so far, now I'll give him time because it's his 1st season and IMO we're just not playing to his strength, but the fact is at Real he was a potent threat who created a hatful, he hasn't done this for us so the player of the year award he received has to be largely based on his time at Real and his play for Germany.

Man U have won lots of titles, but they also won plenty of games at a canter, because champions don't go a whole season scraping wins, they put together some telling runs of good form where they put teams to the sword as well.

I'm not convinced Wenger has learnt, look at our summer transfer window, that was a mess only rescued by a late chase for Ozil (great player but was he actually the player we needed the most?), a poor January transfer window where he signed an injured player as cover for our injured players and the same failing in big matches thus far, the lack of action on Saturday was poor, most manager's would have been trying to change something after 10-15 minutes or even a little later, but he just sat there and in the end we were lucky we went in at 4-0 at half time, it could have been worse.

Until we can beat top teams when it matters I think we'll struggle to win trophies, because most of the time you have to beat them to win. As for spending in the summer, we'll wait and see but I won't hold my breath, we don't handle our transfer affairs very well IMO and the World Cup will hamper us even more this time around.

[Globalgunner]

I find all this talk of progress absolutely baffling, Where is the progress and by what yardstick. Is it points,is it playing style, because, all I see are the same inadequacies that have bedevilled us for years. We can only truly have said to progress if by end s3ason we are in a better position than we were last season. No point progressing in steps if everyone your competing with is moving ahead in strides. We are in a competition, with Chelsea, United and City, all with greater resources than us . Yes its unfair but its reality, so face it, stop living in this pseudo reality where we claim moral superiority just by competing and winning plaudits in our own little world. Liverpool can be said to have improved but we have not, as we are more or less where we have been for years, in and around the top 4. If United can be discounted and we end up 3rd. Then have we really improved

Many posters here retreat into a world of moral rectitude and financial prudence and award us titles that we never win on the pitch. Fuck that. We have resources that we never fully utilise, we, can mark off the calendar by our routine collapses. We have a manager who ignores the bleeding obvious and tells himself and the world outside that we are moving in the right direction. Are we a football club or the investment branch of the Bank of England?

[Letters]

If you haven't seen any progress this year then you haven't been watching.
Whether we sustain that or collapse remains to be seen.

[selassie]

Aye, that's a pretty shit post selassie. At least try to address tbe points in JonasTC's post if you're going to reply.

His post was ridiculous, he stated it was our first proper loss of the season, WTF?!!! That's why I replied with the "burying your head in the sand" image, the post got the reply it deserved.

[selassie]

But zim, the villa and city games were heavily influenced by the ref, its not an excuse, its a fact. If the output had been the same with a proper ref, remains to be seen.

He went after Higuain, but to be fair, i think 35m is to much aswell when somebody tells him that he could get Suarez for 40m, when that didnt happend, Higuain was already sold. But to be fair, at that time i dont think Suarez was worth more than 40 either, he had only had one good season for Liverpool and had big disciplinary problems, looking back we should probably just had rasised our offer, but it always easy to look back and wish you had done differently. This is not football manager, it takes time to negotiate and so on, so you cant just jump around from deal to deal, when one dont work out.

He got rid of death weight, didnt sell any of our good players and added a world class player, i would say thats strengthing our squad and the results tells us the same, come january he got rid of more deathweight, but didnt strength because there was no proper deals out there (feel free to prove me wrong). This summer we'll get rid of even more deathweight and probably the biggest clown this club ever had (Bendtner) and therefor Wenger will 100% add a quality striker and probably even throw silly money after it, if everything goes wrong.

Zim come on, you dont believe that he actually got those awards for just being good in last season? Messi werent in the best-11 and his last season was crazy :)

Utd scraped wins for years, its what champions do, they play shit at times and still win.

I would say Wenger have shown this season that he have learned from previous experiences, just because he didnt throw silly money after a bad/decent player in january, doesnt mean everything is the same old. City couldnt even get what they wanted and they're willing to throw silly money at everything.

I dont think everything is a walk on roses, but i do believe that we're close to having a championship team and it seems like we're working hard towards it. In past transfer windows and so on, there's been some factors that sadly have worked against us and therefor we've been handling the transfer window with little bit the handbrake on. This summer there is non, absolute nothing that can work against us, we have the money, we only have 1 striker left, who's not good enough to get us the goals we need, there is quality strikers available out there, etc. by then IF he doesnt add a top striker (and a proper holding midfielder aswell), i will probably be joining the Wenger-Out Express, but until that, i'll be supporting this team with as much positivy as possible.

Actually Jonas it's not a fact that the Villa and City games were influenced by refs, it's your opinion. Sure there were questionable decisions in both games but I don't think the decisions determined the result. We lost both games, it happens, everybody loses.

Do you honestly believe Arsene handled the Summer transfer window well? In my opinion he made a complete pigs ear of it and totally botched up signing a striker. He had the whole of the summer to address the centre forwards position...because effectively we have one centre forward at the club and still do. Arsene absolutely failed and has not excuses, he cannot hide behind valuations and such stuff. He was even told publicly what it would cost to buy 2 of his preferred striker options but baulked and walked away. Arsene did in fact jump around from deal to deal lowballing.

To make matters worse, the signing of Kallstrom has pretty much exposed the lack of planning we have in terms of player recruitment, Arsene even admitted he was aware of his injury problem, I mean does this not sound ridiculous to you? Why are we even entertaining the idea of signing crocked players? Kallstrom is no use to us!!!

One thing I do agree with is that he did well getting rid of all the deadwood in the summer, but removing deadwood doesn't equate to strenghtening your squad. Strengthening the squad would be upgrading/solving problem areas. Of course the Ozil and Flamini signings did improve Midfield, though by how much and whether these areas needed strenghtening is still up for debate.

I do agree we have made progress this season and appear to be more organised but one of the reasons I have raised concerns post Liverpool and probably why many others have is because of what looks like a lack of planning on our part when approaching these crucial games, one thing I will say about Arsene is he appears to be very reactive and not proactive in his approach, be it tactics, team selection or his player recruitment policy (if one exists). Nobody is saying we are all doomed and rubbish, legitimate concerns are being raised about our manager and the team, that's the way I see it anyway.

[LDG]

We've definitely improved, no doubt about it.

But I think this result shows that we're still short of a team capable of winning the league. Not necessarily through lack of talent, but more through lack of attention to detail.

You still feel the team has a horrendous fuck up in them, even though we are most definitely more consistent. We haven't abolished the ability to embarrass ourselves, it's just that it happens slightly less often now.

It's completely a mental thing. And it is something that has needed addressing for a long time, in most Wenger teams over the last decade. It's carelessness in attitude, concentration, and also slightly to do with a real competetive desire.

[saintnickle]

:gp::gp::gp:
Actually Jonas it's not a fact that the Villa and City games were influenced by refs, it's your opinion. Sure there were questionable decisions in both games but I don't think the decisions determined the result. We lost both games, it happens, everybody loses.

Do you honestly believe Arsene handled the Summer transfer window well? In my opinion he made a complete pigs ear of it and totally botched up signing a striker. He had the whole of the summer to address the centre forwards position...because effectively we have one centre forward at the club and still do. Arsene absolutely failed and has not excuses, he cannot hide behind valuations and such stuff. He was even told publicly what it would cost to buy 2 of his preferred striker options but baulked and walked away. Arsene did in fact jump around from deal to deal lowballing.

To make matters worse, the signing of Kallstrom has pretty much exposed the lack of planning we have in terms of player recruitment, Arsene even admitted he was aware of his injury problem, I mean does this not sound ridiculous to you? Why are we even entertaining the idea of signing crocked players? Kallstrom is no use to us!!!

One thing I do agree with is that he did well getting rid of all the deadwood in the summer, but removing deadwood doesn't equate to strenghtening your squad. Strengthening the squad would be upgrading/solving problem areas. Of course the Ozil and Flamini signings did improve Midfield, though by how much and whether these areas needed strenghtening is still up for debate.

I do agree we have made progress this season and appear to be more organised but one of the reasons I have raised concerns post Liverpool and probably why many others have is because of what looks like a lack of planning on our part when approaching these crucial games, one thing I will say about Arsene is he appears to be very reactive and not proactive in his approach, be it tactics, team selection or his player recruitment policy (if one exists). Nobody is saying we are all doomed and rubbish, legitimate concerns are being raised about our manager and the team, that's the way I see it anyway.


:gp::gp:
Some good points there.Some posters on here cant be honest and see the truth if theres anything negative in it.We all want things to be rosy and our team to be the best on and off the field but despite all the good Wenger has done for this club(most pre 2005)i cannot ignore the last 9 years and those flaws because of it.

[Letters]

Some posters on here cant be honest and see the truth if theres anything negative in it.
That's simply not true. Some posters simply think other posters are over-stating the problems.

[Syn]

Some poasters are overstating the extent to which other poasters think other poasters are overstating the problems. You penises.

[Marc Overmars]

Of course we have improved, there's no doubt about that. By how much is up for debate I suppose but we haven't been competing like this in years so it's a significant improvement.

For me now it just comes down to mentality, like it always does at this time of year. I believe the team is good enough despite lacking in firepower, but there's a common reason nobody believes we can win anything and that lingering doubt will always be there until we actually do.

[saintnickle]

That's simply not true. Some posters simply think other posters are over-stating the problems.

But they are the same problems that keep happening time and time again.Most people learn from mistakes and solve problems,but you cant solve them if you dont think they are there.

[Power n Glory]

That's simply not true. Some posters simply think other posters are over-stating the problems.

I've seen Jonas defend the Kallstrom deal and say it's a good signing. When you you're up against that sort of mentality this is the result.

[Power n Glory]

But they are the same problems that keep happening time and time again.Most people learn from mistakes and solve problems,but you cant solve them if you dont think they are there.

We've gone over this thousands of times on here and it's surprising more alarm bells aren't ringing. Now that we have the resources and Wenger is still holding back and not putting his foot down, even though he's in the last year of his contract.....it's the same crap. Different questions need to be asked. The Board need to put more pressure on him, put better people around him or simply find a better manager.

[Letters]

or simply find a better manager.
I don't think there are as many of those around as some people like to think.

We're a point off the top of the table, flanked by sides who have thrown money around like it's going out of fashion.

If we collapse horribly - and I fear we may - then we'll have made almost no progress after all but let's at least wait for that to happen before we draw conclusions.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think there are as many of those around as some people like to think.

We're a point off the top of the table, flanked by sides who have thrown money around like it's going out of fashion.

If we collapse horribly - and I fear we may - then we'll have made almost no progress after all but let's at least wait for that to happen before we draw conclusions.


Different questions need to be asked. The Board need to put more pressure on him, put better people around him or simply find a better manager.

Stop picking on one particular point and rolling with it. We've heard you repeat that a thousand times and I think everyone is fully aware of risks. If option A isn't viable, explore options B and C.

[Özim]

I don't think there are as many of those around as some people like to think.

We're a point off the top of the table, flanked by sides who have thrown money around like it's going out of fashion.

If we collapse horribly - and I fear we may - then we'll have made almost no progress after all but let's at least wait for that to happen before we draw conclusions.

Well he certainly not much cop at finishing the job as proved by his last 8-9 years, maybe we should have him in charge until January and then bring in a manager who can turn potential into success for the 2nd half of the season?

I guess it depends how long people are happy to see us coming short, if you're happy coming 3rd/4th every season without ever seeing your club pick up a trophy then he's fine. If you'd rather see your club do well and then have something to show for it at the end of the season then maybe he isn't?

[Letters]

I'd rather see my club heading in the right direction. For the first time in years I see that now.
If we collapse horribly then we won't have made much progress at all, if any. That remains to be seen.

[IBK]

I'd rather see my club heading in the right direction. For the first time in years I see that now.
If we collapse horribly then we won't have made much progress at all, if any. That remains to be seen.

Letters - you are becoming a bit obsessed by the spending power of Citeh and Chelsea. No one can deny that hey have a massive edge - but if you look at the points we've dropped, most of these are against teams less bankrolled than we are. If we finish 3rd - in principle sure you can say that we only lost out to billionaires who bought their title places but IMHO failure to finish higher will have more to do with our own team's shortcomings and the manager's failure to make the best of the club's resources.

[Power n Glory]

Letters - you are becoming a bit obsessed by the spending power of Citeh and Chelsea. No one can deny that hey have a massive edge - but if you look at the points we've dropped, most of these are against teams less bankrolled than we are. If we finish 3rd - in principle sure you can say that we only lost out to billionaires who bought their title places but IMHO failure to finish higher will have more to do with our own team's shortcomings and the manager's failure to make the best of the club's resources.

Yep. Also, what's moving in the 'right' direction if we're unable to compete with clubs that have more resources?

[Niall_Quinn]

Lads have a duty to ram Starfish's shit right back down his throat when we meet them in the FA Cup. Just pin up all the shit that's being chatted and study every word before we go on the pitch.

[Power n Glory]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/10626347/Arsenals-5-1-defeat-at-Liverpool-Five-areas-where-it-is-going-wrong-for-Arsene-Wengers-team.html

Some key points I agree with on this.

Our midfield balance needs addressing and we badly miss Ramsey. We miss his work rate and tackles. Wilshere is off form and despite getting up and down the pitch, he made one unsuccessful attempt of a tackle against Liverpool. Arteta and Ozil have rightly taken stick for either being lazy or not mobile enough, but Wilshere's petulance gets mistaken for passion when we need productivity.

We need to draft in Rosicky for Man Utd and I wouldn't mind seeing Cazorla playing in Ozil's place. I highly doubt Wenger will make those changes and may give the team a chance to respond if they're physically capable of playing. I wouldn't object to that given the manner of our defeat at Anfield. I expect an immediate response. But if these guys are still looking toothless in the first 45 minutes then Wenger needs to haul them off. No exceptions.

[Letters]

Yep. Also, what's moving in the 'right' direction if we're unable to compete with clubs that have more resources?

We're never going to be able to completely compete with them unless FFP has any teeth, but the closer we get the more chance we have of getting one over them.

[Fist of Lehmann]

I remember posting at the start of the season that Ozil was a great start, but that we needed at least 2 more Ozil level signings to properly compete. My thinking was based on some simple maths. Overall we've done very well to date but the Premiership is an asymmetrical race, everyone plays everyone else at different times so it can take some time before the results start to even out.

What we saw on Saturday may have been the start of our evening.

So to a degree I understand the reaction. For years we've been sold the vision of cake tomorrow instead of cake today. This year we've outperformed expectations, people started to believe that the cake had finally arrived. But for me cake this year would be ahead of schedule.

When you make structural changes to a business, or social reforms, or in fact any fundamental change to a large complex system, often those changes take time, months or even years, for their effects to filter down. Chelsea won nothing in their 1st year of Russian mafia money, Man City didn't win the league until their 4th year of obscene oil money spending.

The change is there, definitely. We culled deadwood ruthlessly, even when cancelling contracts or allowing free transfer cost us money. We sold no first teamers (unless you count Gervinho). We broke our transfer record on a single player by more than 2.5 times and signed the second most expensive player in Premier League history.

Whether this is sustained change though remains to be seen. Our last 5 transfers were Ozil + 2 frees (Flamini and Sanogo) and 2 loans (Viviano and Kallstrom). The difficulties aside, signing Count Draxula could have been the marker put down, a clear sign of intent. Aside from whatever he did on the pitch it would have given encouragement to a tiring squad, and renewed faith that the management was as motivated to win things as they were.

As things are now, people are starting to wonder whether the cake was illusionary.

[Marc Overmars]

The cake is a lie.

[Niall_Quinn]

I remember posting at the start of the season that Ozil was a great start, but that we needed at least 2 more Ozil level signings to properly compete. My thinking was based on some simple maths. Overall we've done very well to date but the Premiership is an asymmetrical race, everyone plays everyone else at different times so it can take some time before the results start to even out.

What we saw on Saturday may have been the start of our evening.

So to a degree I understand the reaction. For years we've been sold the vision of cake tomorrow instead of cake today. This year we've outperformed expectations, people started to believe that the cake had finally arrived. But for me cake this year would be ahead of schedule.

When you make structural changes to a business, or social reforms, or in fact any fundamental change to a large complex system, often those changes take time, months or even years, for their effects to filter down. Chelsea won nothing in their 1st year of Russian mafia money, Man City didn't win the league until their 4th year of obscene oil money spending.

The change is there, definitely. We culled deadwood ruthlessly, even when cancelling contracts or allowing free transfer cost us money. We sold no first teamers (unless you count Gervinho). We broke our transfer record on a single player by more than 2.5 times and signed the second most expensive player in Premier League history.

Whether this is sustained change though remains to be seen. Our last 5 transfers were Ozil + 2 frees (Flamini and Sanogo) and 2 loans (Viviano and Kallstrom). The difficulties aside, signing Count Draxula could have been the marker put down, a clear sign of intent. Aside from whatever he did on the pitch it would have given encouragement to a tiring squad, and renewed faith that the management was as motivated to win things as they were.

As things are now, people are starting to wonder whether the cake was illusionary.

:gp:

By all accounts the financial plan winds out in the summer of 2014. If we see nothing happening then we know we've been had. But a lot of what the board and manager have said would happen has now happened on the financial side. It's on them now to follow through and certainly the fans will be watching closely. I expect at least a couple of big names to be brought in this summer.

[Power n Glory]

I remember posting at the start of the season that Ozil was a great start, but that we needed at least 2 more Ozil level signings to properly compete. My thinking was based on some simple maths. Overall we've done very well to date but the Premiership is an asymmetrical race, everyone plays everyone else at different times so it can take some time before the results start to even out.

What we saw on Saturday may have been the start of our evening.

So to a degree I understand the reaction. For years we've been sold the vision of cake tomorrow instead of cake today. This year we've outperformed expectations, people started to believe that the cake had finally arrived. But for me cake this year would be ahead of schedule.

When you make structural changes to a business, or social reforms, or in fact any fundamental change to a large complex system, often those changes take time, months or even years, for their effects to filter down. Chelsea won nothing in their 1st year of Russian mafia money, Man City didn't win the league until their 4th year of obscene oil money spending.

The change is there, definitely. We culled deadwood ruthlessly, even when cancelling contracts or allowing free transfer cost us money. We sold no first teamers (unless you count Gervinho). We broke our transfer record on a single player by more than 2.5 times and signed the second most expensive player in Premier League history.

Whether this is sustained change though remains to be seen. Our last 5 transfers were Ozil + 2 frees (Flamini and Sanogo) and 2 loans (Viviano and Kallstrom). The difficulties aside, signing Count Draxula could have been the marker put down, a clear sign of intent. Aside from whatever he did on the pitch it would have given encouragement to a tiring squad, and renewed faith that the management was as motivated to win things as they were.

As things are now, people are starting to wonder whether the cake was illusionary.

:gp:

[fakeyank]

I'd rather see my club heading in the right direction. For the first time in years I see that now.
If we collapse horribly then we won't have made much progress at all, if any. That remains to be seen.

I think that statement is a bit premature. We seem to be heading in the right direction quite a few times every season. Some things that are common to Arsenal's season in the last 7-8 years:

- Go on unbeaten runs of 10-11 matches where we it seems like we made improvement from previous seasons
- Be the leader or there abouts the top 1-2 and then completely have a car crash Feb/March
- On the occasions we are close to the top, we sure as hell make sure we dont sign the needed players
- Finish above Spurs by the end of the season and it feels like we did something worthwhile
- Fuck around all through the transfer window making shit bids and/or not making a bid at all

The only reason I see that there is some progress this season is Ozil and the money we paid for him. I am now sure that the board is no longer holding AW back in terms of transfer funds (not that I ever felt like that before either but this just proves it). There really is no other reason why I feel that we have made progress so far.. We have all seen these false dawns! I hope all the skeptics are wrong though!

[Özim]

The cake is a lie.

Nothing worse than fake cake.

[Özim]

I remember posting at the start of the season that Ozil was a great start, but that we needed at least 2 more Ozil level signings to properly compete. My thinking was based on some simple maths. Overall we've done very well to date but the Premiership is an asymmetrical race, everyone plays everyone else at different times so it can take some time before the results start to even out.

What we saw on Saturday may have been the start of our evening.

So to a degree I understand the reaction. For years we've been sold the vision of cake tomorrow instead of cake today. This year we've outperformed expectations, people started to believe that the cake had finally arrived. But for me cake this year would be ahead of schedule.

When you make structural changes to a business, or social reforms, or in fact any fundamental change to a large complex system, often those changes take time, months or even years, for their effects to filter down. Chelsea won nothing in their 1st year of Russian mafia money, Man City didn't win the league until their 4th year of obscene oil money spending.

The change is there, definitely. We culled deadwood ruthlessly, even when cancelling contracts or allowing free transfer cost us money. We sold no first teamers (unless you count Gervinho). We broke our transfer record on a single player by more than 2.5 times and signed the second most expensive player in Premier League history.

Whether this is sustained change though remains to be seen. Our last 5 transfers were Ozil + 2 frees (Flamini and Sanogo) and 2 loans (Viviano and Kallstrom). The difficulties aside, signing Count Draxula could have been the marker put down, a clear sign of intent. Aside from whatever he did on the pitch it would have given encouragement to a tiring squad, and renewed faith that the management was as motivated to win things as they were.

As things are now, people are starting to wonder whether the cake was illusionary.

Very good post.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I do agree we have made progress this season and appear to be more organised but one of the reasons I have raised concerns post Liverpool and probably why many others have is because of what looks like a lack of planning on our part when approaching these crucial games, one thing I will say about Arsene is he appears to be very reactive and not proactive in his approach, be it tactics, team selection or his player recruitment policy (if one exists). Nobody is saying we are all doomed and rubbish, legitimate concerns are being raised about our manager and the team, that's the way I see it anyway.

This is one of my biggest qualms with the modus operandi at the club. Everything appears to be as a belated action of a consequence we have just had to endure/incur. Nothing seems to ever be stemming from us taking the initiative any more....or to coin a phrase the club likes using at timely occasions, 'being ahead of the game'.

Being ahead of the game is the foundation upon which not only the Wenger legacy is built upon but the Hebert Chapman one is too. I'm not ashamed to say that I really do love Wenger and desperately and I mean desperately want him to be THE guy to take us forward..... After all, he is an Arsenal man and has been here the best part of 20 years. However, there are times when he makes it very difficult to defend him though which as a fan of a family centric club like ours can hurt against the mouthy arsewipes of other fans and the media.

I think it is easy to lambaste people for complaining whenever we lose. If you do it whilst we are winning it often comes across as superfluous complaining and nit picking for the sake of it and people aren't always discerning enough on this board and in general to tell when somebody has a genuine concern and point of view or when they are simply splitting hairs arbitrarily. The point at hand being made subsequently being swept by the wayside or being ignored all together as a consequence.

It is also quite churlish to say no forward steps have been taken. I for one was quite happy to see Wenger break the record on a 20-25 million transfer last summer and he went and broke the record 3 times over. Bloody hell, I thought. That act alone told me things are different but the more pertinent question is, how different? and is Wenger changing and adapting to the changing game quick enough? Is he thinking on his feet, is he boxing smart any more? You can't keep flogging us tomorrow. The time has to come eventually and the time is now.

His targets were a forward and a DCM last summer. He managed to sign neither of both the repute & potential long term standing. That was a pitiful way to meet ones targets at best even if the overriding feeling was elation (and relief) from the Ozil signing in a position which whilst more than welcome was not the most obvious. If you're going to cheap out, be found wanting or lacking in quality in an area in the modern game....you better damn well make sure it is in your forward line because you WILL be found wanting. And again...and again. Let's not pretend that forwards costing the most amount of money is a mere matter of glamour and prestige alone. You would be hard pressed to name a team who has won a major trophy without a world class forward and that is very difficult to get away from....and that's before even touching on the entire 1st halves of terrible, lethargic, football we periodically put out which we sometimes cannot recover from.

We were lining up here to ridicule the backline Liverpool were going to play against us and yet they may as well have had the day off because only their midfielders and Forward line saw the ball. As far as I'm concerned as soon as last Summer's window shut, January was always going to be a point of contention as to who Wenger would get in, because it was almost certainly going to be necessary. No point thinking...phew we got away with that one (in regard to transfers in the summer)....the pressure will only be back again in the next window, so we really ought to stop this lame routine of going into seasons with glaring holes and simply 'making do' or as Wenger says more often than I care to hear 'taking a gamble' on injury prone/young/untested players. At least not when we have cash reserves sitting in the bank.

I have said it before on here but we don't match up / compete with our former selves never mind with the current might of City/Chelsea. This Summer really should be make or break, but we kind of said that last summer, so it becomes increasingly harder to escape the feeling we are being strung along.

[Letters]

I think that statement is a bit premature. We seem to be heading in the right direction quite a few times every season. Some things that are common to Arsenal's season in the last 7-8 years:

- Go on unbeaten runs of 10-11 matches where we it seems like we made improvement from previous seasons
- Be the leader or there abouts the top 1-2 and then completely have a car crash Feb/March
- On the occasions we are close to the top, we sure as hell make sure we dont sign the needed players
- Finish above Spurs by the end of the season and it feels like we did something worthwhile
- Fuck around all through the transfer window making shit bids and/or not making a bid at all

The only reason I see that there is some progress this season is Ozil and the money we paid for him. I am now sure that the board is no longer holding AW back in terms of transfer funds (not that I ever felt like that before either but this just proves it). There really is no other reason why I feel that we have made progress so far.. We have all seen these false dawns! I hope all the skeptics are wrong though!
You're right about false dawns but it's been a while since we've sustained a challenge for this long. We got the most points of anyone in the 2013 calendar last year. It's not just a short, good run and as you say the Ozil signing showed a bit more intent. It's not enough, but it's a start.
I am nervous about a collapse, Wednesday's game is massive now. Lose that one and I fear for us.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think the FA cup game against Pool is bigger. Not because it's the cup but if we get back on the horse and give them a good kicking that will say more than beating a very ordinary Utd. Not that the Utd game isn't important, they all are now. Pressure on, let's see how we handle it this time around. Differently would be nice.

[Letters]

They're important for different reasons. Liverpool because they are a good side and after the mauling we got on Saturday it's a chance to show it was a one off and we can beat them as we did earlier in the season. Utd because as ropey as they've been this year in our minds it's a 'big game' and we have been notoriously patchy in those.

[AFC Leveller]

I'd love nothing more than a good thrashing next Sunday but to tell you the truth; it all depends on how we do against Man ure and if we've recovered from the 5-1.

Liverpool obviously did their homework and knew where our weakness lied, they will come at us again from the off and an early goal for them would be such an anti climax i cant bear thinking about it.

[IBK]

This is one of my biggest qualms with the modus operandi at the club. Everything appears to be as a belated action of a consequence we have just had to endure/incur. Nothing seems to ever be stemming from us taking the initiative any more....or to coin a phrase the club likes using at timely occasions, 'being ahead of the game'.

Being ahead of the game is the foundation upon which not only the Wenger legacy is built upon but the Hebert Chapman one is too. I'm not ashamed to say that I really do love Wenger and desperately and I mean desperately want him to be THE guy to take us forward..... After all, he is an Arsenal man and has been here the best part of 20 years. However, there are times when he makes it very difficult to defend him though which as a fan of a family centric club like ours can hurt against the mouthy arsewipes of other fans and the media.

I think it is easy to lambaste people for complaining whenever we lose. If you do it whilst we are winning it often comes across as superfluous complaining and nit picking for the sake of it and people aren't always discerning enough on this board and in general to tell when somebody has a genuine concern and point of view or when they are simply splitting hairs arbitrarily. The point at hand being made subsequently being swept by the wayside or being ignored all together as a consequence.

It is also quite churlish to say no forward steps have been taken. I for one was quite happy to see Wenger break the record on a 20-25 million transfer last summer and he went and broke the record 3 times over. Bloody hell, I thought. That act alone told me things are different but the more pertinent question is, how different? and is Wenger changing and adapting to the changing game quick enough? Is he thinking on his feet, is he boxing smart any more? You can't keep flogging us tomorrow. The time has to come eventually and the time is now.

His targets were a forward and a DCM last summer. He managed to sign neither of both the repute & potential long term standing. That was a pitiful way to meet ones targets at best even if the overriding feeling was elation (and relief) from the Ozil signing in a position which whilst more than welcome was not the most obvious. If you're going to cheap out, be found wanting or lacking in quality in an area in the modern game....you better damn well make sure it is in your forward line because you WILL be found wanting. And again...and again. Let's not pretend that forwards costing the most amount of money is a mere matter of glamour and prestige alone. You would be hard pressed to name a team who has won a major trophy without a world class forward and that is very difficult to get away from....and that's before even touching on the entire 1st halves of terrible, lethargic, football we periodically put out which we sometimes cannot recover from.

We were lining up here to ridicule the backline Liverpool were going to play against us and yet they may as well have had the day off because only their midfielders and Forward line saw the ball. As far as I'm concerned as soon as last Summer's window shut, January was always going to be a point of contention as to who Wenger would get in, because it was almost certainly going to be necessary. No point thinking...phew we got away with that one (in regard to transfers in the summer)....the pressure will only be back again in the next window, so we really ought to stop this lame routine of going into seasons with glaring holes and simply 'making do' or as Wenger says more often than I care to hear 'taking a gamble' on injury prone/young/untested players. At least not when we have cash reserves sitting in the bank.

I have said it before on here but we don't match up / compete with our former selves never mind with the current might of City/Chelsea. This Summer really should be make or break, but we kind of said that last summer, so it becomes increasingly harder to escape the feeling we are being strung along.

Outstanding post! :gp:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Who/where are you likely to rotate for Sunday? I assume you will given your fixture list...

If Rodgers' comments are anything to go by we won't be dropping many, if anyone, injuries permitting.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Flamini will definitely start - back from suspension.

In truth I expect to see Flamini and Arteta together which I don't really like but given the shellacking we got on Saturday, maybe it's for the best.

[selassie]

This is one of my biggest qualms with the modus operandi at the club. Everything appears to be as a belated action of a consequence we have just had to endure/incur. Nothing seems to ever be stemming from us taking the initiative any more....or to coin a phrase the club likes using at timely occasions, 'being ahead of the game'.

Being ahead of the game is the foundation upon which not only the Wenger legacy is built upon but the Hebert Chapman one is too. I'm not ashamed to say that I really do love Wenger and desperately and I mean desperately want him to be THE guy to take us forward..... After all, he is an Arsenal man and has been here the best part of 20 years. However, there are times when he makes it very difficult to defend him though which as a fan of a family centric club like ours can hurt against the mouthy arsewipes of other fans and the media.

I think it is easy to lambaste people for complaining whenever we lose. If you do it whilst we are winning it often comes across as superfluous complaining and nit picking for the sake of it and people aren't always discerning enough on this board and in general to tell when somebody has a genuine concern and point of view or when they are simply splitting hairs arbitrarily. The point at hand being made subsequently being swept by the wayside or being ignored all together as a consequence.

It is also quite churlish to say no forward steps have been taken. I for one was quite happy to see Wenger break the record on a 20-25 million transfer last summer and he went and broke the record 3 times over. Bloody hell, I thought. That act alone told me things are different but the more pertinent question is, how different? and is Wenger changing and adapting to the changing game quick enough? Is he thinking on his feet, is he boxing smart any more? You can't keep flogging us tomorrow. The time has to come eventually and the time is now.

His targets were a forward and a DCM last summer. He managed to sign neither of both the repute & potential long term standing. That was a pitiful way to meet ones targets at best even if the overriding feeling was elation (and relief) from the Ozil signing in a position which whilst more than welcome was not the most obvious. If you're going to cheap out, be found wanting or lacking in quality in an area in the modern game....you better damn well make sure it is in your forward line because you WILL be found wanting. And again...and again. Let's not pretend that forwards costing the most amount of money is a mere matter of glamour and prestige alone. You would be hard pressed to name a team who has won a major trophy without a world class forward and that is very difficult to get away from....and that's before even touching on the entire 1st halves of terrible, lethargic, football we periodically put out which we sometimes cannot recover from.

We were lining up here to ridicule the backline Liverpool were going to play against us and yet they may as well have had the day off because only their midfielders and Forward line saw the ball. As far as I'm concerned as soon as last Summer's window shut, January was always going to be a point of contention as to who Wenger would get in, because it was almost certainly going to be necessary. No point thinking...phew we got away with that one (in regard to transfers in the summer)....the pressure will only be back again in the next window, so we really ought to stop this lame routine of going into seasons with glaring holes and simply 'making do' or as Wenger says more often than I care to hear 'taking a gamble' on injury prone/young/untested players. At least not when we have cash reserves sitting in the bank.

I have said it before on here but we don't match up / compete with our former selves never mind with the current might of City/Chelsea. This Summer really should be make or break, but we kind of said that last summer, so it becomes increasingly harder to escape the feeling we are being strung along.

:gp:

[Power n Glory]

This is one of my biggest qualms with the modus operandi at the club. Everything appears to be as a belated action of a consequence we have just had to endure/incur. Nothing seems to ever be stemming from us taking the initiative any more....or to coin a phrase the club likes using at timely occasions, 'being ahead of the game'.

Being ahead of the game is the foundation upon which not only the Wenger legacy is built upon but the Hebert Chapman one is too. I'm not ashamed to say that I really do love Wenger and desperately and I mean desperately want him to be THE guy to take us forward..... After all, he is an Arsenal man and has been here the best part of 20 years. However, there are times when he makes it very difficult to defend him though which as a fan of a family centric club like ours can hurt against the mouthy arsewipes of other fans and the media.

I think it is easy to lambaste people for complaining whenever we lose. If you do it whilst we are winning it often comes across as superfluous complaining and nit picking for the sake of it and people aren't always discerning enough on this board and in general to tell when somebody has a genuine concern and point of view or when they are simply splitting hairs arbitrarily. The point at hand being made subsequently being swept by the wayside or being ignored all together as a consequence.

It is also quite churlish to say no forward steps have been taken. I for one was quite happy to see Wenger break the record on a 20-25 million transfer last summer and he went and broke the record 3 times over. Bloody hell, I thought. That act alone told me things are different but the more pertinent question is, how different? and is Wenger changing and adapting to the changing game quick enough? Is he thinking on his feet, is he boxing smart any more? You can't keep flogging us tomorrow. The time has to come eventually and the time is now.

His targets were a forward and a DCM last summer. He managed to sign neither of both the repute & potential long term standing. That was a pitiful way to meet ones targets at best even if the overriding feeling was elation (and relief) from the Ozil signing in a position which whilst more than welcome was not the most obvious. If you're going to cheap out, be found wanting or lacking in quality in an area in the modern game....you better damn well make sure it is in your forward line because you WILL be found wanting. And again...and again. Let's not pretend that forwards costing the most amount of money is a mere matter of glamour and prestige alone. You would be hard pressed to name a team who has won a major trophy without a world class forward and that is very difficult to get away from....and that's before even touching on the entire 1st halves of terrible, lethargic, football we periodically put out which we sometimes cannot recover from.

We were lining up here to ridicule the backline Liverpool were going to play against us and yet they may as well have had the day off because only their midfielders and Forward line saw the ball. As far as I'm concerned as soon as last Summer's window shut, January was always going to be a point of contention as to who Wenger would get in, because it was almost certainly going to be necessary. No point thinking...phew we got away with that one (in regard to transfers in the summer)....the pressure will only be back again in the next window, so we really ought to stop this lame routine of going into seasons with glaring holes and simply 'making do' or as Wenger says more often than I care to hear 'taking a gamble' on injury prone/young/untested players. At least not when we have cash reserves sitting in the bank.

I have said it before on here but we don't match up / compete with our former selves never mind with the current might of City/Chelsea. This Summer really should be make or break, but we kind of said that last summer, so it becomes increasingly harder to escape the feeling we are being strung along.

:gp:

You've highlighted a key point when it comes to our transfers. It all seems very haphazard with no real purpose. I struggle to figure out what sort of style Wenger is trying to play or what he feels this team is missing. He has bought some players that you can see don't fit into our style of play or he's bought players that simply add more of what we don't need.

I have a feeling we're falling into the same pattern where we overload the team with playmakers/passers whilst being short on players that look to get in behind defenders or look to dribble past their man to create space. I think back to the time we signed Chamakh when we had this sort of problem. I still can't understand why Wenger would sign a player like this if he's not going to play inverted wingers that can score goals. There is no need for a striker that likes to drop deep if we're going to have playmakers either side of him.

I see a similar problem with the signing of Giroud and we've fallen into that same pattern for certain games. I don't know why he isn't giving Podolski more games and encouraging him to play closer to Giroud so they form a strike partnership. Some of the decisions are baffling. Like Chamakh and Gervinho, I can see him giving up on Podolski in the next window and it's hard to understand why he signed him in the first place if he's not sure how to use him.

I hope next summer we some signings that show some purpose. I don't want us to sign another player that results in us pushing a player like Wilshere or Cazorla or Ramsey out wide just to make room. Or signings like Arteta where try them in positions they've never played before. He must have a vision for the way we want to play or see a particular weak area and strengthen it.

[Maestro]

http://www.givemesport.com/429229-arsenal-fan-kills-liverpool-supporter-after-51-defeat?autoplay=on&undertone=off&utm_source=outbrain-rss&utm_medium=outbrain-rss&utm_campaign=outbrain-rss


now that's what you call a match reaction

cripps is out there