Match Reaction Arsenal vs United

[AKBapologist]

A MASSIVE SHOWER OF SHIT.
:thumbsdown:

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://data3.whicdn.com/images/59129432/large.png

[Özim]

When the going get's tough, we go missing.

As expected another failure to win a game against the big sides (an awful one at that).

[selassie]

Similar to the Chelsea game earlier on in the season. Pretty awful really, slow tiki taka approach, no runners, no urgency.

[hobson's choice]

More embarrassing than the Liverpool defeat to me, please Wenger do us a favor and build a proper team.

Ozil, Carzola, Ramsey, Wilshere, Ox, Rosicky, Gnarby, and don't forget about Diaby, while good players. We don't need all of them on one team.

[Munchies]

Can't beat the worst United team, under their worst ever manager once this season.

:lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Pure cowardice by the manager.

Utd absolute shite even though they were allowed to foul at will.

Easy 3 points chucked away because we refused to have a go.

Question: Can Giroud carry us the whole season?
Answer: Is the pope a jew?

[IBK]

IMHO we will end up scrapping for 4th. the optimists will point to our points difference etc but we looked cooked as a proper force and utterly without inspiration either from the dugout or on the pitch. Wenger is the antithesis of proactive - and the most uninspiring of the lot.

[Maestro]

are people still knee jerking or do we really have a managerial problem, when push comes to shove?

just asking is all, anyway why even bother.

hope one day we can actually play some good football, that's all that's left to really hope for.

[milla]

Sack the fuker! This has nothing to do with his transfer policy or injuries to our players. Tactically, Wenger doesn't know what he is doing.

The board will do him a big favor if they let him go this summer, he built us a great base and it is time for him to pass it over to younger and better manager. Wenger out :fingers:

[Thierrymon]

Depressing not to beat this united team this season. They are awful.

They parked the bus but we had no movement or pace to overcome it.

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/19614/wheels-fall-off-o.gif

[Darknight02]

Terribly disappointing we didn't win.

But our players at least tried. They forced De Gea into so many top saves.

I really didn't expect us to blitz United away. This is the same team that won the league at a canter last season. They always have the desire, motivation and raise their game against us.

Today was firstly in my opinion about not conceding and not losing. I don't think any team can lose 5-1 and not lose confidence.

Our guys tried. And we created far more shots on goal and chances than they did.

Our lack of wide players and Wenger's lack of investment is killing us unfortunately.

But at least the defence kept a clean sheet.

Disappointing no doubt. But after 5-1, a bit of perspective please.

[fakeyank]

Needed a striker, got Kallstrom instead. Cant wait for him to tear up the opposition defenders with his pace :lol:

[Power n Glory]

We had chances to take 3 points.

Giroud and Wilshere should be dropped. Better from Ozil. Teamed up with Cazorla well and I think we need to get them to pairing up more.

[selassie]

IMHO we will end up scrapping for 4th. the optimists will point to our points difference etc but we looked cooked as a proper force and utterly without inspiration either from the dugout or on the pitch. Wenger is the antithesis of proactive - and the most uninspiring of the lot.

Yep, if you look at the table now we're only 6 points ahead of the Scum, we're getting sucked into a top 4 battle IMHO.

[gunnerrrrr]

he is a prehistoric dinosaur in the modern game

[Maestro]

Pure cowardice by the manager.

Utd absolute shite even though they were allowed to foul at will.

Easy 3 points chucked away because we refused to have a go.

Question: Can Giroud carry us the whole season?
Answer: Is the pope a jew?

Ramsey carried us, Giroud never did IMHO. We're now playing without a striker, literally down to 10 men out there

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://www.ybig.ie/forum/uploads/264/family-guy-vomit.gif

[JonasTC]

Well that was shit. I dont think we were that bad, we just dont have a striker. Giroud seriously need to fuck off, if we had a proper striker like all other top teams in europe have, we would've walked to the championship without a problem. Its seriously ridicoulous how many big chances he misses, i cant see him getting into the starting line-up in most other premier league teams.

[milla]

Depressing not to beat this united team this season. They are awful.

They parked the bus but we had no movement or pace to overcome it.

No they didn't park the bus. Wenger built a big wall in front of Manu back four, all his own doing :coffee:

[Ralpheroo72]

Redknapp may well be right about the spuds finishing above us. At least we have Puma though!!

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger is in total statistics mode. Avoid fatigue, avoid injuries, avoid, avoid, avoid. End up in us avoiding a performance. Can't win by being safe all the time.

[fakeyank]

Why wasnt a second sub made? Why wasnt Podolski brought out? What was the point of Sanogo ahead of Gnabry? Horrible man management by Arsene.. His new deal must be torn up till the end of the season.

[Letters]

Missed it, mercifully, due to MrsL's birthday.
Adzz kept me up to date and from early on I could see how it would go.
Same old Arsenal...

This side plus a proper striker would win the title or go very close. Giroud tries his best but frankly he's not good enough.

[Özim]

Terribly disappointing we didn't win.

But our players at least tried. They forced De Gea into so many top saves.

I really didn't expect us to blitz United away. This is the same team that won the league at a canter last season. They always have the desire, motivation and raise their game against us.

Today was firstly in my opinion about not conceding and not losing. I don't think any team can lose 5-1 and not lose confidence.

Our guys tried. And we created far more shots on goal and chances than they did.

Our lack of wide players and Wenger's lack of investment is killing us unfortunately.

But at least the defence kept a clean sheet.

Disappointing no doubt. But after 5-1, a bit of perspective please.

Didn't think we worked hard enough from the off, expected a higher tempo and more closing down.

Man U are rubbish this season, 5 defeats out of 9 games this year with just 3 wins and one was in the cup when they got knocked out, don't kid yourself they were there for the taking.

Today was about 3 points, anything less isn't good enough after getting hammered at the weekend, especially when playing at home.

We didn't have that many chances at goal, Cazorla was the pick in that regard, but Man U had 3 clear chances despite playing sh*t.

[LDG]

Terribly disappointing we didn't win.

But our players at least tried. They forced De Gea into so many top saves.

I really didn't expect us to blitz United away. This is the same team that won the league at a canter last season. They always have the desire, motivation and raise their game against us.

Today was firstly in my opinion about not conceding and not losing. I don't think any team can lose 5-1 and not lose confidence.

Our guys tried. And we created far more shots on goal and chances than they did.

Our lack of wide players and Wenger's lack of investment is killing us unfortunately.

But at least the defence kept a clean sheet.

Disappointing no doubt. But after 5-1, a bit of perspective please.

Reasonably fair comment.

One thing that bugs me though, is the inability to really really really want it.

When you have your fullback out wide in space looking for an option, absolutey nobody other than Giroud is looking to get in the box.

Every player moves towards the ball for a short pass. Nobody ever runs off it to create space, or get on the end of something.

Please. It's sooooo frustrating.

All said and done. It's same old. Should have won, but couldn't see it through v UTD.

:banghead:

[milla]

Giroud has been sack of shit for months now. Ironically, we had 3 strikers on the bench tonight but none get to play. :coffee:

[The Emirates Gallactico]

FFS what is with our inability to beat these cunts? They're so fucking shite and yet we can't take them apart, we were just too scared to have a go.

No pacy runners in the team at all, everyone's a slow midger number 10 attacking midfielder.

Ozil. Yes.
Santi. Yes.
Rosicky. Yes.
Jack. Yes.

Giroud ..... yes. No one can run with pace and get behind a defence. I said it in the match thread before kick off but not having Gnabry on the bench was mental, he's one of the few players who can do it.


Losing Theo spelled the end of our title challenge it seems.

[Master Splinter]

Insipid stuff really.

Still enough chances to win though.

When we were on top towards the end, Wenger just continued with the status quo by bringing Ox on for Rosicky rather than going for the win by bringing our best finisher Podolski on or even Bendtner/Sanogo.

We're on the verge of letting all our good work just evaporate into nothingness and Wenger is seemingly not interested in doing much to change that.

Just hugely disappointing.

Decent games from Cazorla,Ozil and Gibbs. Szczesny superb again. Wilshere and Rosicky awful and Wenger does Wilshere no favours by keeping him on when he's on the verge of getting injured/getting sent off/harming his own team.

At least we haven't conceded at home for ages.

[fakeyank]

Liverpool pelanty now.. only a few points separate us!

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://i.imgur.com/gS2JVwr.gif

Time for a drink.

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://i.imgur.com/gS2JVwr.gif

Time for a drink.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Liverpool pelanty now.. only a few points separate us!

Fourth place trophy :rose:


Argghhh so frustrating. We're throwing this away again.

[Darknight02]

Didn't think we worked hard enough from the off, expected a higher tempo and more closing down.

Man U are rubbish this season, 5 defeats out of 9 games this year with just 3 wins and one was in the cup when they got knocked out, don't kid yourself they were there for the taking.

Today was about 3 points, anything less isn't good enough after getting hammered at the weekend, especially when playing at home.

We didn't have that many chances at goal, Cazorla was the pick in that regard, but Man U had 3 clear chances despite playing sh*t.


Yeah they had 3 clear chances.

But we had about 6 clear chances with one cleared off the line. It's not as if we didn't create anything at all. We had Kos's superb header cleared off the line, Giroud's header wide, three Cazorla shots that were all into the corner of the goal all which De Gea superbly saved and Giroud missing a fantastic cross from Sagna.

I'd have loved the 3 points today no doubt.

But after a 5-1 pasting where questions were asked about this defence we responded well in that regard.

Don't get me wrong - the lack of investment in the team, the lack of wide and flair players and the lack of a proper striker of course is killing us and those are all things that Wenger has to answer for.

[Özim]

We really are getting dragged back into a scrap for 4th, the teams below us are winning and hitting form, our form has been getting worse and worse and with the games we have left 4th place is going to be a fight, never mind fighting for the title.

[Bumble]

Rvp

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

So glad we have an easy run of games from now on...

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

It was NEVER going to be an easy game, regardless of how shite they are. That said, we should still have won the game and a team who has led the league for the most time can't got to Anfield and get beat 5-1.

One point in both those games is disappointing to say the least.

Not even worth making any further comments about Giroud. But someone will tell me, a centre forward at Arsenal doesn't need to score goals.....as if he's Bergkamp or something.

Podolski our apparent most lethal forward not coming on for even a sniff is an absurd state of affairs too. But it's okay because it's impossible to sign players in January right.....or in the summer before....or the January before that....

[IBK]

For me my reaction ain't knee jerk. Far from it. We are not a shit team. Our manager isn't shit. But for good reason many Gooners were circumspect when we were riding high, and this result and performance simply underlines the fact that despite the 42M. Despite the defensive improvement. We are still no more than a top 4 team with a top 4 manager.

[Thierrymon]

We need someone in that can really motivate the players. We are always so slow to start and never seem to turn up for the big games.

[hobson's choice]

So Liverpool will be passing us soon, so like usual it'll be Spurs and Us battling for 4th again<_<

[Özim]

To drop 4 points to such a poor Man U side is borderline criminal, how many times do we have to fail and watch this guy sit on the sidelines doing f*ck all before we call it a day with him?

[Munchies]

I've agreed with all of Piers Morgan's tweets :doh:

https://twitter.com/piersmorgan

FFS Wenger

[Bumble]

That was dull. Draw was probably fair enough. Neither team did enough. Szczensy is quality though. Thought cazorla played well.

Think we might get bashed by bayern next week. Defo take 0-0 and think wenger will play that way.

[Maestro]

For me my reaction ain't knee jerk. Far from it. We are not a shit team. Our manager isn't shit. But for good reason many Gooners were circumspect when we were riding high, and this result and performance simply underlines the fact that despite the 42M. Despite the defensive improvement. We are still no more than a top 4 team with a top 4 manager.


.....and you can add a host of top players to the team, but we'll still have a top 4 manager

[Niall_Quinn]

If Carlsberg was a cunt it would probably be Piers Morgan.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Arsenal goalkeeper Wojciech Szczesny: "We did not take our opportunities today, which is disappointing. It is a positive to get a clean sheet after conceding five goals.

"I tried to react to Robin van Persie's effort. He did not score a lot of headers at Emirates Stadium, so I wanted that to continue.

"[Talking about the title race] It will be really tight. A lot of teams are very close to each other at the top.

"We are confident going into the last few games. If we show our character, we can do it."


How can we be confident if we're displayed a woeful lack of ability to beat any top team?

[Gooner23]

Giroud killed us tonight. He should be a capable back up, not a first choice without any back up. Madness.

We're fighting it out for 3rd/4th now, needed more from these two games than 1 point. Don't think the players will really believe they can go all the way.

How bad are United though. Apart from the two RVP chances, both from our mistakes, they resorted to playing like Stoke.

[Bumble]

We are only 6 points ahead of 5th place. Yet we have had a good season so far and laugh at that team in 5th. We still have to go to everton spurs and Chelsea with city at home. and all in a row with bayern away thrown in for fun. By end of march we need to be close as the run in is teams we have beaten this season.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We are only 6 points ahead of 5th place. Yet we have had a good season so far and laugh at that team in 5th. We still have to go to everton spurs and Chelsea with city at home. and all in a row with bayern away thrown in for fun. By end of march we need to be close as the run in is teams we have beaten this season.

All you say is correct but we can't think we live in a bubble and pretend the other top sides don't have to play each other still. We do really have to beat Sunderland, Stoke (Swansea too if we get to play it) though.

[selassie]

We are only 6 points ahead of 5th place. Yet we have had a good season so far and laugh at that team in 5th. We still have to go to everton spurs and Chelsea with city at home. and all in a row with bayern away thrown in for fun. By end of march we need to be close as the run in is teams we have beaten this season.

I totally agree. If we don't give ourselves a points cushion ahead of the brutal march schedule it wouldn't be unrealistic to think we could actually fall out of the top 4, it's getting that tight now.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Worst thing is that this same shower of shit we played tonight will probably end up going to Palace in a few weeks and end up losing because Pulis will be prepared to have a go at them, much more than we ever dreamed to do tonight.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Worst thing is that this same shower of shit we played tonight will probably end up going to Palace in a few weeks and end up losing because Pulis will be prepared to have a go at them, much more than we ever dreamed to do tonight.

:lol:

Probably. That's football though.

[milla]

:lol:

Probably. That's Wenger though.

:gp:

[Marc Overmars]

Rubbish game with minimal quality on display from either side.

We looked more stable which was good to see after the calamity on Saturday, but once again we stunk the place out with our attacking play. I do like Giroud for the shift he puts in but he’s not going to win us anything that’s for sure. How does Wenger keep finding these strikers who are about as threatening as a feather duster?

We’re the only top side not to beat United, hell we haven’t even scored against them this season. Fuck me, they were shit and there for the taking but we were predictably timid and shy. They may have even won it if Chesney wasn’t alert, now that would really have been a sickener.

This side doesn’t have that special something to succeed, they’re efficient but unfortunately lack any sort of ruthless streak and obviously have no threat whatsoever up front. Things could be different if we had Theo and Ramsey available I suppose, but it’s a squad game and no one forced Wenger to stockpile so many players who can perform the same role, but neglect an important component to any side – pace.

There was no reaction tonight, they were too scared to try and win it for fear of losing it. Expected that from United but pretty shit effort from us as well truth be told.

Fully expect us to be dumped out of the cup this weekend – or at least held and then hammered in the replay.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a433/qwerty12343/wenger-no-running_zpsf47d3e1b.jpg

[selassie]

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a433/qwerty12343/wenger-no-running_zpsf47d3e1b.jpg

:lol:

[Tipsychubbs]

The attack is still a big problem. Hardly any pace, intelligent movement or runners in behind, in the attacking 3rd. Slow, predictable, easy to defend against. Since when did having a good defense automatically render the attack being poor?

Sure, ramsey and walcott are injured, but we still played this way when they were available, even though individually (along with rosicky) they tried to break out of the mould at times. Too much passing too little focus on penetration, movement and dribbling. It hasn't gone away. Such a poor man u team there for the taking, but yet again we made it hard work.

Ozil for me actually was decent in this match, he was trying to make things happen by being more proactive.

[Özim]

I don't see a place for Wilshere in the team personally, he's slow, plays everything through the middle and gives the ball and gives away needless free kicks away regularly, we've got plenty of midfielders and need to sacrifice a few to make way for some genuine wingers and a striker or two and a specialist DM.

Diaby, Wilshere, Flamini, Arteta would leave us with Ox, Cazorla, Ozil, Ramsey, Gnabry and Rosicky which is ample (Rosicky is only bit part anyway).

Wilshere has grown up the Wenger way and that's not necessarily a good thing because that seems to involving lots of passing through the eye of a needle and a slow paced game.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

By all accounts Liverpool were all over us like a rash from the off hence four quick goals, I am asking too much for us to once to take a leaf out someone else's book?

We didn't lose and are only one point off, got to get max points from next few games before going into the title deciders.....seriously 'grow a set time'

[BOBN]

This side plus a proper striker would win the title or go very close. Giroud tries his best but frankly he's not good enough.
Nah. I was wondering why Suarez was interested in joining us because he would have been in a similar situation as he was last season before Sturridge joined.

Our midfield is wildly overrated and imbalanced. Its a failure. They don't attack or defend well enough, dont create enough chances or support the striker enough.

Arteta is finished, Wilshere a nothing player, Ozil and Cazorla skillful but meek, Flamini adequate and Ramseys had a good season, Walcott never fit.

I dont think we'd have won it with Suarez alone. Suarez has Sterling, Sturridge and Coutinho in support. Pace, movement, intent and incision. Our midfield doesnt do any of that.

[Xhaka Can’t]

That all seems to make sense until you realise that Liverpool 4 points behind us in the League and wouldarguably be further behind if we had Suarez.

[Niall_Quinn]

But you have to admit, we are the only team to have dropped points.

[BOBN]

That all seems to make sense until you realise that Liverpool 4 points behind us in the League and wouldarguably be further behind if we had Suarez.
Its our defence, theyve been super.

Wengers best defence in at least 8.

Wengers worst attacking side since Grampus 8.

[Marc Overmars]

:lol:

Nicely put.

It is strange how Wenger has assembled a side like this, one thing you always thought he had a handle on was how to ensure the side is loaded with creativity.

Seems like he's solved one problem with the defence and created another with a powderpuff attack.

[Injury Time]

Wow that was pants. Where has our midfield gone? Bored of watching Wilshire getting bumped off the ball, his first touch is as delicate of that of a rapist at the moment. Rosicky tried but no NE seems to be on the same wavelength, just standing with their markers, yet when it breaks down they are miles away from shutting the opposition down. Mystified by the single sub tbh, is the only way to get Pod to train by pretending he's going to get on? Meh.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Chorus of boos at the end.

Walk into the toilets at full time and someone shouts Wenger out.

Bit extreme but understand the frustration. Will we ever beat a top team in the league?

Poor January will probably cost us. Depressed.

[Munchies]

Chorus of boos at the end.

Walk into the toilets at full time and someone shouts Wenger out.

Bit extreme but understand the frustration. Will we ever beat a top team in the league?

Poor January will probably cost us. Depressed.

I'm beyond pissed off with this, and Wenger has to take full responsibility for it.

Next season, is only going to get more difficult. If Liverpool get into top 4, they'll strengthen considerably, Maureen will spend even more on another striker, City will be City, and United will probably sack Moyes and get someone with a decent resume in and throw cash around.

Our best chance in a long time, and he fucked it up. We could have very easily walked to the title this season, had he got an athletic CDM (Like Luis Gustavo), and a fast striker who can create chances out of nothing. (like Higuain).

Even then, in January, we perhaps only needed a few additions, one striker, and maybe one winger/centre mid. He gets in Kallstorm, who won't even play for us when he's fit.

[Niall_Quinn]

Come on guys, we aren't the only team fucking up and we haven't even spent a billion quid on more playa!

Yes it's very frustrating watching such a laboured performance but if Giroud had stuck one of those chances in we'd be grumbling at the top of the league. Yes, he didn't stick any away, yes we don't have a backup option, but don't throw everything out the window. We just got a squillion quid from various sponsors, let's see what Wenger does with it in the summer. The whole stadium, pragmatic sponsorship shit has finally wound out. The whole reason for doing it was to be sitting in a top class stadium and to put a winning team on the pitch. If they don't make good on the purpose of this plan in the summer then absolutely fine, all of them out. But the chavs and gypos are fucking up just as badly and this Liverpool for the title nonsense will fade as soon as they put in a couple of bad results. 1st, 2nd or 3rd and a fat wad spent in the summer wouldn't be bad progress.

4th and the chequebook locked in Wenger's underpants and we are still okay because we get to go on a wild shooting spree.

[Globalgunner]

Come on guys, we aren't the only team fucking up and we haven't even spent a billion quid on more playa!

Yes it's very frustrating watching such a laboured performance but if Giroud had stuck one of those chances in we'd be grumbling at the top of the league. Yes, he didn't stick any away, yes we don't have a backup option, but don't throw everything out the window. We just got a squillion quid from various sponsors, let's see what Wenger does with it in the summer. The whole stadium, pragmatic sponsorship shit has finally wound out. The whole reason for doing it was to be sitting in a top class stadium and to put a winning team on the pitch. If they don't make good on the purpose of this plan in the summer then absolutely fine, all of them out. But the chavs and gypos are fucking up just as badly and this Liverpool for the title nonsense will fade as soon as they put in a couple of bad results. 1st, 2nd or 3rd and a fat wad spent in the summer wouldn't be bad progress.

4th and the chequebook locked in Wenger's underpants and we are still okay because we get to go on a wild shooting spree.

Same story as always, Wait for the summer......I'm glad I'm not your girlfriend waiting for you to propose.

[AKBapologist]

Cake tomorrow!

[Letters]

Same story as always, Wait for the summer......I'm glad I'm not your girlfriend waiting for you to propose.

:lol: although the Ozil signing (leaving aside how he's done, it was the most ambitious thing we've done in years) and the new sponsorship deals do hint at a new direction for the club.

[AFC Leveller]

Just cannot beat these fuckers anymore. The approach right from the start was all wrong, players giving the ball away (Jack was at it all game), Arteta getting robbed and almost costing us a goal, Giroud playing shit, players not making any runs etc.

The football we played (and have played all season) was so fucking slow and predictable, same old passes from side to side, giving Man u all the time to regroup. Where was the fucking pace? where was the urgency to get forward and put them under pressure? Everyone beats this Man u side, Stoke, West brom, Bar codes, Spuds! the likes of Cardiff, Fulham and Sunderland all scoring two goals against them as well.

I'd rather ANY other manager in the league to manage us aganst Man u than Wenger. He's so fucking scared of them its a joke. Chesney was our best player against a side that everyone beats these days.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Chorus of boos at the end.

Walk into the toilets at full time and someone shouts Wenger out.

Bit extreme but understand the frustration.

WTF was he doing in there?

[Munchies]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UBaKMND2iQ&feature=c4-overview&list=UUBTy8j2cPy6zw68godcE7MQ

:lol:

[pmakgreb]

utd were comfortable bar about 10 minutes when we looked as if we were going to score but for 80 mins they looked more dangerous. We have no pace in the team so we cant get behind teams. We have struggled to beat most teams since xmas and we will continue to struggle because giroud although a decent player cannot play up there by himself and expect us to put teams to the sword. We have Sunderland, Stoke and Swansea up next and i can guarentee we will struggle to beat all 3. We may do but it will be the usual biting your nails in the 85th minute.

If wenger had spent the money for a forward in the summer or even in january we would be comfortably top of the league. now we are looking over our shoulders and are only 6 points ahead of 5th place. Whose to say by the time we play spurs on 16th March that if they beat us we go 5th??

Could well be out of the fa cup and CL too by then. Same old story every year and all because we dont strengthen the squad.

[KSE Comedy Club]

:bow:

Fair play that man!

I agree

[KSE Comedy Club]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UBaKMND2iQ&feature=c4-overview&list=UUBTy8j2cPy6zw68godcE7MQ

:lol::bow:

Fair play that man!

I agree

[Özim]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UBaKMND2iQ&feature=c4-overview&list=UUBTy8j2cPy6zw68godcE7MQ

:lol:

This guy is great :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

That guy is always hysterical but I don't think there's much to disagree with.

[Power n Glory]

I expected a draw. It wasn’t a good performance and Wenger should have made changes early on. Giroud was woeful and had a pass completion rate of 59%. 23/39 passes, so we lost the ball a lot. Besides fluffing his lines, his first touch was woeful. He’s not first team material and the fact that he’s fatigued makes him even worse. Moves break down constantly around him, he gives the ball away, misses his chances and isn’t creating anything for anyone else.

Jack Wilshere was woeful too. 0/0 tackles, 0/0 interceptions, 57/70 passes completed (81%) 1 attempt on goal. He gives the ball away in bad areas and it’s not just bad passing, he’s getting tackled and left flat on his ass far too often which results in a counter. The RVP header that was tipped on to the bar from Szczesny came from Wilshere getting tackled further up the pitch whilst we had bodies forward. He’s reckless.

These two need to be dropped for the next game. More game time won’t help them. Give someone else a chance and see what happens. I won’t blame Wenger for starting them again, but after 60 minutes they should have been hauled off because there was no change in their approach.

[Özim]

There's no fight in this team, after losing 5-1 it's not unreasonable to expect the manager and players to be highly motivated, the players really showed very little desire to win, for 60-70 minutes we barely attacked with any intent, I just don't get it.

Then you have Wenger on the bench, sitting on his arse doing nothing again just like Saturday, he just seemed more interested in not losing today than winning, no Podolski brought on, kept Wilshere one who was atrocious, watched Giroud do nothing except miss chances.

Where is the desire, why don't these players (and the club) after almost 9 years without a trophy bust a gut to try and win games like this when we're in a great position in a season where the top teams aren't perhaps at their very best?

The football also just has to change, it's slow, predictable and frankly boring, we're crying out for some pace because we're wasn't players like Ozil in this team, I'm even looking at Sagna to be honest, he had opportunities to rush forward but after a short burst he checks back and passes it sideways or backwards thus killing any chance of a counter, WTF is wrong with these players, do they prefer to try and setup near impossible intricate passing moves through the centre instead of running into space and being able to run on goal?

[Özim]

I expected a draw. It wasn’t a good performance and Wenger should have made changes early on. Giroud was woeful and had a pass completion rate of 59%. 23/39 passes, so we lost the ball a lot. Besides fluffing his lines, his first touch was woeful. He’s not first team material and the fact that he’s fatigued makes him even worse. Moves break down constantly around him, he gives the ball away, misses his chances and isn’t creating anything for anyone else.

Jack Wilshere was woeful too. 0/0 tackles, 0/0 interceptions, 57/70 passes completed (81%) 1 attempt on goal. He gives the ball away in bad areas and it’s not just bad passing, he’s getting tackled and left flat on his ass far too often which results in a counter. The RVP header that was tipped on to the bar from Szczesny came from Wilshere getting tackled further up the pitch whilst we had bodies forward. He’s reckless.

These two need to be dropped for the next game. More game time won’t help them. Give someone else a chance and see what happens. I won’t blame Wenger for starting them again, but after 60 minutes they should have been hauled off because there was no change in their approach.

That's the thing, I expected a draw too because that's what we do when we get a mauling, show no reaction at all, I'm use to it over the years, the lack of desire is atonishing.

Wilshere just doesn't work IMO, he's slow, gives away passes regularly, his tackling is clumsy and he's intent on doing everything through the center, it's like he's a mini AW on the pitch.

I think him playing slows us down and generally doesn't work for us, he'll occasionally be involved in a good move and score a good goal, but overall he's just not what we need, I know he came through the youth ranks etc but we need players that are going to work in the team and he doesn't.

[Power n Glory]

That's the thing, I expected a draw too because that's what we do when we get a mauling, show no reaction at all, I'm use to it over the years, the lack of desire is atonishing.

Wilshere just doesn't work IMO, he's slow, gives away passes regularly, his tackling is clumsy and he's intent on doing everything through the center, it's like he's a mini AW on the pitch.

I think him playing slows us down and generally doesn't work for us, he'll occasionally be involved in a good move and score a good goal, but overall he's just not what we need, I know he came through the youth ranks etc but we need players that are going to work in the team and he doesn't.

He needs a break because right now he’s showing his immaturity. He’s not reading the game well, he’s making bad decisions and he pushes forward at every opportunity when it’s unnecessary. If Rosicky can’t play, I’d rather see Ox or Cazorla get games there. Jack should be playing from the bench.

[Munchies]

The same shit's been said for the last 9 years.

'We need a CDM and a top striker' , been the same since Flamini left ffs.

Can't imagine how the people who go to every game for the last 9 seasons feel. I was offered a ticket for the Manc game, and it was roughly £100 for the day out, fuck that I said to myself. Even then, it just feels like nothing will ever change at the moment. I'm not even confident of getting top 4 now.

The money is there, it isn't being spent properly and only Wenger is to blame.

[Niall_Quinn]

He's become a C celeb for an Internet TV channel that's always looking for hits. Other fans around the country must be laughing their balls off watching us slit our wrists over not being top of the table.

[Özim]

They.re probably laughing their heads off at seeing us bottling a good opportunity again. We're club that plays pretty football but never wins, except we don't play pretty football anymore.

[Niall_Quinn]

He needs a break because right now he’s showing his immaturity. He’s not reading the game well, he’s making bad decisions and he pushes forward at every opportunity when it’s unnecessary. If Rosicky can’t play, I’d rather see Ox or Cazorla get games there. Jack should be playing from the bench.

Jack (both last night and against Liverpool) was trying to force things to happen in a team that's not set up to make things happen. Ozil was doing the same last night. Our rapid and accurate passing to serve movement and the interchange of players has gone. Now we're static, slow, predictable. It's a symptom of the manager's fear of losing. We've seen hints of it from early in the season, the first real manifestation against Everton, who if they had as potent strike force as Liverpool would have done us 5-1 too, and we saw a taste of the disaster to come when we played Southampton.

Raises the question, is it better to be a bit ambitious, play decent football and finish 4th. Or is it better to shut up shop and claw towards the top? Neither approach has quite enough to get the desired results when it matters. 3 or 4 more top quality players required and this isn't surprising after all the years of selling and not replacing that quality.

[Munchies]

SHould've sent this cunt home crying, now look at him :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgWmU3GCEAA1zhp.png

He's never lost against us since he left :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

SHould've sent this cunt home crying, now look at him :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgWmU3GCEAA1zhp.png

He's never lost against us since he left :lol:

He'll be able to find a nice restaurant to watch CL footie from next season.

[BOBN]

Jack Wilshere was woeful too. 0/0 tackles, 0/0 interceptions, 57/70 passes completed (81%) 1 attempt on goal. He gives the ball away in bad areas and it’s not just bad passing, he’s getting tackled and left flat on his ass far too often which results in a counter. The RVP header that was tipped on to the bar from Szczesny came from Wilshere getting tackled further up the pitch whilst we had bodies forward. He’s reckless.

Disgusting statistics. Fraudulent player with no position hes even acceptable in. Excels at absolutely nothing.

Yet his market value should be £20m+. First question i'd ask a prospective manager in interview is "would you sell Wilshere?". We need a maverick in charge if we want to compete with the petrodollar clubs.

[Power n Glory]

Jack (both last night and against Liverpool) was trying to force things to happen in a team that's not set up to make things happen. Ozil was doing the same last night. Our rapid and accurate passing to serve movement and the interchange of players has gone. Now we're static, slow, predictable. It's a symptom of the manager's fear of losing. We've seen hints of it from early in the season, the first real manifestation against Everton, who if they had as potent strike force as Liverpool would have done us 5-1 too, and we saw a taste of the disaster to come when we played Southampton.

Raises the question, is it better to be a bit ambitious, play decent football and finish 4th. Or is it better to shut up shop and claw towards the top? Neither approach has quite enough to get the desired results when it matters. 3 or 4 more top quality players required and this isn't surprising after all the years of selling and not replacing that quality.

Jack takes too many risks and offers little reward. He shouldn’t be starting. The way he tries to force the game shows his immaturity. We have better options on the bench. Jack’s poor defending often gets overlooked because he appears to be busy. He didn’t attempt a single tackle and didn’t even win an interception. He didn’t improve on his Liverpool game and didn’t learn any lessons because he’s not winning tackles or intercepting the ball and it’s worse that he loses the ball so often.

[Özim]

Jack (both last night and against Liverpool) was trying to force things to happen in a team that's not set up to make things happen. Ozil was doing the same last night. Our rapid and accurate passing to serve movement and the interchange of players has gone. Now we're static, slow, predictable. It's a symptom of the manager's fear of losing. We've seen hints of it from early in the season, the first real manifestation against Everton, who if they had as potent strike force as Liverpool would have done us 5-1 too, and we saw a taste of the disaster to come when we played Southampton.

Raises the question, is it better to be a bit ambitious, play decent football and finish 4th. Or is it better to shut up shop and claw towards the top? Neither approach has quite enough to get the desired results when it matters. 3 or 4 more top quality players required and this isn't surprising after all the years of selling and not replacing that quality.

Excuses excuses, noone forces him to give away simple 5 yard passes every 5 minutes, BOBN is right he excels at nothing, he's one of Wenger's fledglings and that's a bad thing IMO as it means trying to play everything through the centre and no end product, he has 1 good game every 5 games and the rest of the time he's a liability who doesn't tackle well, gets caught on the ball and gives the ball away. Running around like a headless chicken does not equal a good performance.

I just don't get the fuss over this guy, he's got an awful long way to go to become anywhere near good enough to be playing regularly, we've got more than enough midfielders anyway and need to cull a few to make space for other players IMO.

[JonasTC]

Looking back and have released all the anger :d were we really that bad? I mean, De Gea had 3-4 really good saves, Valencia saved it on the line and Giroud bottled 2 huuuge chances he should have scored on. On a better day that would have been a comfortable 2+ score for us (and yes, i know Szscesny saved our asses aswell, before all the haters reply).

[Özim]

Well we barely played for 60 minutes or so, then Cazorla had a few pops at goal and Giroud missed his usual sitters. Not good enough a reaction after a 5-1 defeat, they owed it to the fans to produce a performance yesterday.

A draw was a fair result, we were the home team and the onus was on us to beat a side lying 7th, totally out of form who lack quality, we didn't do it and didn't try hard enough either.

Lack of desire from the players from the off, lack of substitutions and offensive tactics. We've got this can't win a big game thing hanging over us at the moment, yesterday might have been a start to putting that behind us (even though Man U are let's face it sh*t), we didn't manage it and you just feel that this will be our downfall, we just can't win the big games and that I'm afraid is down to Wenger.

Read a post on another Arsenal forum which sums up our chances:


Just checked William Hill to see how much its on for us to win the league. They have us 10/1 and they have Liverpool 8/1. Never have I seen a team this stage of the season with 1 point from the top to be such a high price. Its amazing how little faith they have on us and they have had all season. Its like they been saying all season they are falling away, dont worry about them. But when Liverpool have bigger chance than us to win the league, then it says something

Bookies are in it for the money and are rarely wrong, I don't think Wenger is capable of building a winning side anymore, a side to get top 4 yes, but not one to actually win.

[Marc Overmars]

There's a reason why we've been treated like the fly on wall in this title race. Unfortunately it seems like we may prove the doubters right, again.

[AFC Leveller]

The Ox had a good game in the middle against Palace, scored two good goals as well so why wasnt he given a run in CM? we really need and miss Ramsay's penetration through the middle and the Ox is the only we have that offers that right now.

I'd play him, Flams and Rosicky against Liverpool with Gnabs and Pod out wide.

[BOBN]

Wait can we revisit the Mata debate?

Is there anybody left whos still acting like he isnt a mediocre C-level player?

One of the most untalented "flair" players ive ever seen and yep, Willian is better. We need a manager like Mourinho who doesnt give a bloody damn about fan favourites and will use their overhype to generate funds. Wilshere wouldnt get into a Mourinho squad let alone team. He'd be Josh MacEachraned.

[Özim]

There's a reason why we've been treated like the fly on wall in this title race. Unfortunately it seems like we may prove the doubters right, again.

Some people have questioned why anyone would doubt our chances recently, it's pretty clear to me, we've pretty much for the last 8 almost 9 years seen Wenger sides collapse and fall away whenever they've been well placed, we're always missing a few key ingredients to make us a genuine threat IMO, when we have all the ingredients the fans will acknowledge we've got a good chance.

Those ingredients need to be bought it, but not on the cheap as this rarely works, you want to bring in the genuine article, once we have them we should be able to tinker with our style of play to make us more potent.

The issue is the manager has to acknowledge these needs, generally he doesn't and thus the cycle continues year on year.

[Niall_Quinn]

No, people have been questioning the satisfaction some fans seem to display when the team fails. That's entirely different. We can all say we played shite, and when we play shite most say it. But only a few twist the knife and start putting up, I told you so, banners. What's more important? The need to be correct on an Internet forum or supporting the team?

I suspect most here are frustrated we didn't press what was looking like and still is a genuine improvement. That's fair enough. But it goes beyond that for some. From the safe confines of an Internet chat room it can be very easy to manage a big club. Buy him, play him there, do this, do that. All based on little more than the shite coming out of the sensationalist media. For sure it will be harder to do the real job than the virtual job. Even so, it seems fair to conclude (minus many of the behind the scenes facts) mistakes have been made. Similar mistakes to most of the other teams in the league, bar the moneybags clubs who aren't constrained by any realities.

Look at Liverpool's transfer policy. What a joke. Look at the spuds, money spunked all over the place and they still aren't competing. Everton, Newcastle, perennial also rans even though they spend more than us. On the performance front, look how long it has taken the gypos to produce a team that can string more than a couple of passes together without blowing up in a mercenary rampage? The chavs, look how badly they have under-performed given their limitless resources. This doesn't mean we get a free pass on fucking up, but it's still sensible to weigh those fuck-ups against stuff that has actually gone right.

We're a point off the lead. Can it genuinely be so awful that some fans want half the players gone and the manager booted out the door? Some of the criticism is laughable. The very same people who slaughtered Fabregas want him back to replace Ozil, a player adjusting to a new country, a new league and a new team. We haven't even given the poor bastard a season and he's done. Pure comedy. Giroud out too, even though we haven't got a replacement and the bloke has been run into the ground. Yes it's true, we SHOULD have a replacement, bad miss by Wenger there. So slaughter the player. And these are the same people who slaughtered Ramsey but now can't wait for him to be return, and I guess if he doesn't get back to full speed within the first five minutes he'll be fucking useless too. It's all just reactionary bullshit with huge dollops of it coming straight of the media pages.

Myself, I'm taking the improvements I have seen this season as a positive sign. I also see the mistakes that need to be corrected. And I hear the board stating the seemingly endless plan is winding out and will bear fruit in the summer. They have no more excuses after that but for now I'll accept what they say and wait and see.

[fakeyank]

The same shit's been said for the last 9 years.

'We need a CDM and a top striker' , been the same since Flamini left ffs.

Can't imagine how the people who go to every game for the last 9 seasons feel. I was offered a ticket for the Manc game, and it was roughly £100 for the day out, fuck that I said to myself. Even then, it just feels like nothing will ever change at the moment. I'm not even confident of getting top 4 now.

The money is there, it isn't being spent properly and only Wenger is to blame.

Money IMO is only part of the issue. The issue is the tactics, substitutions, team talk etc.

Why are we not playing or even having Gnabry on the bench?
Why isnt Podolski getting game time... ever!?
Why is Ozil being persisted with, even though he looks tired and needs a rest?
What is wrong with our medical team?
Why was Kallstrom signed?!?!!!?!
Why was Ox, our best player in the 2 games before Utd, left on the bench?
Why is our game so slow and tedious? Why arent we urged to shoot more outside the box?

All these do not require money! There is no method to AW's madness. I just do not understand what goes on in his head all the time.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Chorus of boos at the end.

Walk into the toilets at full time and someone shouts Wenger out.

Bit extreme but understand the frustration. Will we ever beat a top team in the league?

Poor January will probably cost us. Depressed.

Have absolutely no idea what you look like, but I find it very difficult to believe someone would mistake you for Wenger.

[Niall_Quinn]

He's playing a safety and averages long game. Very frustrating to watch, sometimes doesn't make any sense when you view the moment rather than the season as a whole. His argument would be look, we are 2nd in the league. It's a pretty convincing argument when you consider he's up against rivals with unlimited resources. But it's not what we like to see because we got spoiled rotten watching the highly entertaining and winning teams of the past. That's where we're all looking to get back to, almost a decade of being a selling club means that's not realistic until we reverse the trend. Hopefully that happens in the summer. If not, well fuck it, it will mean this barren decade of averages will have been for nothing. I think we'll hear all the fans up in arms in that case.

[Özim]

As has been mentioned before no manager without any success would have survived as manager of a big club, I don't care how many times he came top 4. We might have improved, but the issue is we never improve enough and never shake off that inability to finish the job off, we're not just talking about the league but in any competition.

This isn't something new it's almost 9 years of this, in addition we see the manager as stubborn as ever signing midfielder after midfielder and in reality hindering out chances of ever being successful. Then you have his inaction on match days, where he sits there and does next to nothing.

Based on all this it's perfectly reasonable to be questioning the manager and whether it's the end of the line for him.

As for the change you talk about, I'm unconvinced, if not for Ozil out transfers last summer would have been disastrous, the Ozil signing came at the very last minute with fans baying for blood and despite the fact I rate him very highly, it wasn't a position we were lacking in.

January transfer window was the same thing we're use to seeing a total nonsense, I can see next summer being the same, this talk of big signings is unlikely to come to fruition, even less so with a manager who fails to recognise the fundamental weaknesses in his side.

[Niall_Quinn]

As has been mentioned before no manager without any success would have survived as manager of a big club...

Stopped reading the moment you framed the debate using a false statement. We don't have any trophies but to say there has been no success is to ignore everything that has happened over the last 10 years and also the result of that period. Whether we agree with it or not, the plan was to move to a bigger stadium and build the finances of the club to a position where we can compete at the very top of the game. It appears, fingers crossed, that has been delivered. Most in the game would point to it as a massive success. Whether stadiums and finances are what the fans care about the most is another matter. I guess if we start seeing these resources spent on the team everyone will suddenly be a big fan of the last decade.

[Munchies]

Money IMO is only part of the issue. The issue is the tactics, substitutions, team talk etc.

Why are we not playing or even having Gnabry on the bench?
Why isnt Podolski getting game time... ever!?
Why is Ozil being persisted with, even though he looks tired and needs a rest?
What is wrong with our medical team?
Why was Kallstrom signed?!?!!!?!
Why was Ox, our best player in the 2 games before Utd, left on the bench?
Why is our game so slow and tedious? Why arent we urged to shoot more outside the box?

All these do not require money! There is no method to AW's madness. I just do not understand what goes on in his head all the time.

Yeah, I know, It's all a joke really. This year is pretty much the defining factor really, no doubt the board will want to keep him even if it's another trophyless season.

Liverpool bloody battered us badly, and he just sat there :haha: . You know Maureen would've got off his backside, and made subs there and then to have a chance in the game. He waits till we're well into the 2nd half to make any changes.

Then against United, we need a goal, they're sitting back, he only makes one change, and even that was at like 70 mins.

[Özim]

Stopped reading the moment you framed the debate using a false statement. We don't have any trophies but to say there has been no success is to ignore everything that has happened over the last 10 years and also the result of that period. Whether we agree with it or not, the plan was to move to a bigger stadium and build the finances of the club to a position where we can compete at the very top of the game. It appears, fingers crossed, that has been delivered. Most in the game would point to it as a massive success. Whether stadiums and finances are what the fans care about the most is another matter. I guess if we start seeing these resources spent on the team everyone will suddenly be a big fan of the last decade.

It's not a false statement it's a fact, success is success on the pitch not off it, that's the manager's job not building a stadium or making sure the bank are happy.

For me it's simple, I want to see real intent to try and win, if you fail that's fine at least it's clear you tried and gave it your best, Wenger doesn't and will never, too many principals/ideals therefore improvement just isn't enough because it will never lead anywhere.

He had his chance to show us different this season, but as usual the train is coming off the tracks at the same time it always does, he sets himself different goals, it's about the way he wins rather than winning and if he doesn't at least he did it the way he thinks it should be done, success is the secondary goal for him.

[Globalgunner]

People who see the same thing happen year after year and call it progress, need eye checks and a brain CAT scan because certainly something is amiss. NO writes long epistles trying to convince himself that he has seen signs of improvement. But to what end, this season is already looking all like another no trophy season and we are already being told, let's see what he does in the summer, Same as the summer before, etc.

Bottom line is Wenger sees success as not requiring physical trophies. So if we can only get our heads acclimatised to this reality, I guess, we will all be happy.
We led the CL group only to almost lose it on the last day due to more Wenger slapstick. No problem, we hear,at least we qualified. Ergo we now face Bayern. The same thing happened last season.

The only reason I can surmise are that things could possibly be worse without Wenger. How can it be worse when we aren't winning anything, we for sure haven't been relegated in 100 years. People need to grow a pair basically

[Munchies]

People who see the same thing happen year after year and call it progress, need eye checks and a brain CAT scan because certainly something is amiss. NO writes long epistles trying to convince himself that he has seen signs of improvement. But to what end, this season is already looking all like another no trophy season and we are already being told, let's see what he does in the summer, Same as the summer before, etc.

Bottom line is Wenger sees success as not requiring physical trophies. So if we can only get our heads acclimatised to this reality, I guess, we will all be happy.
We led the CL group only to almost lose it on the last day due to more Wenger slapstick. No problem, we hear,at least we qualified. Ergo we now face Bayern. The same thing happened last season.

The only reason I can surmise are that things could possibly be worse without Wenger. How can it be worse when we aren't winning anything, we for sure haven't been relegated in 100 years. People need to grow a pair basically

Exactly.

We can't trust Wenger with another transfer window again, he needs to remove himself from the process of signing players.

-
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgXx69DCQAAmVGp.jpg
If only he had Higuain infront of him :(

[Munchies]

@Podolski10
In yesterday's game I didnt play. But thats football, got to move on. Tonight I ll chill at home and watch the Olympics. #afc #stayfocus

https://twitter.com/Podolski10

[Niall_Quinn]

People need to grow a pair basically

Totally agree with that.

[Power n Glory]

@Podolski10
In yesterday's game I didnt play. But thats football, got to move on. Tonight I ll chill at home and watch the Olympics. #afc #stayfocus

https://twitter.com/Podolski10

He'll be sold off soon. Wenger doesn't know what to do with him. Not a winger, not a striker. He should at least give him games up front off the bench just to see if he can cope.

[Munchies]

He'll be sold off soon. Wenger doesn't know what to do with him. Not a winger, not a striker. He should at least give him games up front off the bench just to see if he can cope.

I'd just start him instead of Giroud really, and tell him to stay in and around the box.

He hasn't made his mark when he has started upfront for us, but that's largely due to him hardly being given a good run of games to adapt to it.

And yeah, think he'll be back to the Bundesliga in the summer. Class player though, on and off the pitch.

[Power n Glory]

We need a lift from somewhere or someone. We can't continue to play the same squad and not expect the same results on the pitch. We've seen all this before. We persevere with the same core group and hope for the performance that boosts us but it never comes. I hope Wenger tries something different for the cup game.

[saintnickle]

He's playing a safety and averages long game. Very frustrating to watch, sometimes doesn't make any sense when you view the moment rather than the season as a whole. His argument would be look, we are 2nd in the league. It's a pretty convincing argument when you consider he's up against rivals with unlimited resources. But it's not what we like to see because we got spoiled rotten watching the highly entertaining and winning teams of the past. That's where we're all looking to get back to, almost a decade of being a selling club means that's not realistic until we reverse the trend. Hopefully that happens in the summer. If not, well fuck it, it will mean this barren decade of averages will have been for nothing. I think we'll hear all the fans up in arms in that case.

What has us strengthening our threadbare team in jan and pushing on got to do with other teams unlimited resources????

[saintnickle]

When will you wait till??? next summer ??or the summer after???or the summer after that??You get my drift??

[Niall_Quinn]

What has us strengthening our threadbare team in jan and pushing on got to do with other teams unlimited resources????

Quality. You can only put 11 on the pitch at any one time (14 if you are city). We are short on quality in key areas.

[Niall_Quinn]

When will you wait till??? next summer ??or the summer after???or the summer after that??You get my drift??

Nope, don't get it at all. I've plainly stated this summer is important and different to summers past because this long term plan has wound out. The big sponsorship deals are in. Time to spend the money and bump the team up to the next level.

[saintnickle]

Nope, don't get it at all. I've plainly stated this summer is important and different to summers past because this long term plan has wound out. The big sponsorship deals are in. Time to spend the money and bump the team up to the next level.

I thought the big money was there last summer.Or am i imagining what Gazidis said??And when i mean big money i thought it was more than 30m

[Munchies]

I thought the big money was there last summer.Or am i imagining what Gazidis said??And when i mean big money i thought it was more than 30m

You're right, that's what we're told every year :lol:

I wouldn't trust Wenger to oversee another transfer window now.

[Niall_Quinn]

I thought the big money was there last summer.Or am i imagining what Gazidis said??And when i mean big money i thought it was more than 30m

No, he said there was money to spend last summer. And we spent plenty. We recovered a fair bit too but it was a net positive spend for a change. Recently the big sponsorship deals have kicked in, replacing the expedient deals that were connected to the stadium project and loans. Next summer is very different to summers gone. There's a potential to spend and then spend every year thereafter. Of course whether they do it is another matter. If they don't they'll get slaughtered and rightly so.

[Power n Glory]

Nope, don't get it at all. I've plainly stated this summer is important and different to summers past because this long term plan has wound out. The big sponsorship deals are in. Time to spend the money and bump the team up to the next level.

That's what Wenger should have done last season especially when you consider he's in the last year of his contract. There was nothing stopping us from doing it. Ivan was serious last summer when he said we had resources available but we didn't plan ahead. This was the perfect opportunity show that we're a force to be reckoned with. City and Chelsea had slow starts and that's down to their managers having their first season with their respective teams. We'll have another summer to try and get this right but against teams with unlimited resources, we're going into next season at a disadvantage and the players will know that. We'll hear Wenger talk more about FFP and it it just sets up the inferior complex straight away.

This season, it felt different and the buzz around the club was positive but things have turned sour very quickly because we're repeating the same shit. The fans have lost patience quickly, the team looks jaded and it's a reflection of what Wenger has done. He's run the team into the ground needlessly.

We've got a summer to try and improve but you can't assume all the other teams will stand still. Man Utd will spend crazy money to get back into the CL, Liverpool will be pushing to assemble a better team....we'll have our shot again but right now, this was the best shot we've had in 9 years. I can't believe we haven't taken it. I don't blame the players, this is a management issue. He doesn't learn. He's crocked Ramsey not too long after breaking Wilshere in a very similar way, Giroud lucky not to have broken down but he still keeps sending him up despite the poor form, he never makes use of his subs, we're still mucking around on contracts (Sagna).....

I just can't understand it. Why are repeating the same mistakes? I'm not saying we haven't improved on defence and looking more solid, but I'm very tempted just to attribute that to Bould. We need to shake up the people around Wenger in the same way the Board needed shaking up. We're now seeing the revenue coming in and some forward thinking about how the club should be run. We need to inject Wenger with some new ideas and hunger. Do we need a Director of Football to handle our transfer dealings....we need something to change because I'm not convinced we'll do much this summer if things don't change internally.

[Power n Glory]

No, he said there was money to spend last summer. And we spent plenty. We recovered a fair bit too but it was a net positive spend for a change. Recently the big sponsorship deals have kicked in, replacing the expedient deals that were connected to the stadium project and loans. Next summer is very different to summers gone. There's a potential to spend and then spend every year thereafter. Of course whether they do it is another matter. If they don't they'll get slaughtered and rightly so.

That's untrue. Wenger had £70m last summer and he said more was coming in as seen with the Puma deal. 'We can do things that will excite you'. Remember that? When Ivan was talking crazy, Wenger was looking at cheap deals for Sanogo and Flamini, talking bollocks about Sanogo not making the headlines because he doesn't cost £50m. The kid has yet to feature for us and he's been injured all season. It pisses me off the more I think about.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/07/ivan-gazidis-promises-arsene-wenger-70m-to-spend-on-summer-transfers-3832068/

[fakeyank]

That's what Wenger should have done last season especially when you consider he's in the last year of his contract. There was nothing stopping us from doing it. Ivan was serious last summer when he said we had resources available but we didn't plan ahead. This was the perfect opportunity show that we're a force to be reckoned with. City and Chelsea had slow starts and that's down to their managers having their first season with their respective teams. We'll have another summer to try and get this right but against teams with unlimited resources, we're going into next season at a disadvantage and the players will know that. We'll hear Wenger talk more about FFP and it it just sets up the inferior complex straight away.

This season, it felt different and the buzz around the club was positive but things have turned sour very quickly because we're repeating the same shit. The fans have lost patience quickly, the team looks jaded and it's a reflection of what Wenger has done. He's run the team into the ground needlessly.

We've got a summer to try and improve but you can't assume all the other teams will stand still. Man Utd will spend crazy money to get back into the CL, Liverpool will be pushing to assemble a better team....we'll have our shot again but right now, this was the best shot we've had in 9 years. I can't believe we haven't taken it. I don't blame the players, this is a management issue. He doesn't learn. He's crocked Ramsey not too long after breaking Wilshere in a very similar way, Giroud lucky not to have broken down but he still keeps sending him up despite the poor form, he never makes use of his subs, we're still mucking around on contracts (Sagna).....

I just can't understand it. Why are repeating the same mistakes? I'm not saying we haven't improved on defence and looking more solid, but I'm very tempted just to attribute that to Bould. We need to shake up the people around Wenger in the same way the Board needed shaking up. We're now seeing the revenue coming in and some forward thinking about how the club should be run. We need to inject Wenger with some new ideas and hunger. Do we need a Director of Football to handle our transfer dealings....we need something to change because I'm not convinced we'll do much this summer if things don't change internally.

:gp:

[fakeyank]

That's untrue. Wenger had £70m last summer and he said more was coming in as seen with the Puma deal. 'We can do things that will excite you'. Remember that? When Ivan was talking crazy, Wenger was looking at cheap deals for Sanogo and Flamini, talking bollocks about Sanogo not making the headlines because he doesn't cost £50m. The kid has yet to feature for us and he's been injured all season. It pisses me off the more I think about.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/07/ivan-gazidis-promises-arsene-wenger-70m-to-spend-on-summer-transfers-3832068/

Do not forget, we also have Kallstrom who we have signed!

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm merely reporting the facts that are available.


The excitement was understandable. After the years of relative hardship, Arsenal are now moving into a period when all their long-term planning should finally come to fruition.

They are developing the fiscal power to compete with Manchester United and, if Uefa’s new financial fair-play regulations are enforced, move clear of Chelsea and Manchester City.

Gazidis’s frustration is more complicated. It concerns not only the failures of this past season but also the repeated accusation that Arsenal lack ambition. “We get beaten up along the way but I think we are extraordinarily ambitious,” he said.

A glance this week at Deloitte’s latest report into the health of leading European clubs supports his claim. With the benefit of moving to the Emirates evident in their match-day takings, Arsenal are already sixth on the list of Europe’s richest clubs, with an annual turnover of £234.9 million.

What is often overlooked, however, is that to secure the funding to build the Emirates, Arsenal sacrificed a series of commercial opportunities. Decade-long deals were agreed in 2004 for their kit and shirt sponsorship which have offered diminishing market value over the past five years.

In 2011-12, Arsenal's commercial revenue of £64.9 million was dwarfed by Manchester United (£145.4 million), Bayern Munich (£201.6million) and even Liverpool (£99.1million).

For that reason 2014 has long been looked on as a sort of promised land by the Arsenal board as their major commercial deals expire then. New sponsors or dramatically enhanced renegotiations are being rapidly secured.

With Emirates continuing as the shirt sponsor, a kit deal with Puma agreed in principle and further partnerships around the world, an annual increase of £70 million has been secured.

If Arsenal maintain a relatively conservative 60 per cent salary to turnover ratio, that will make an annual wage bill of £180 million easily affordable within the next two years. For context, Chelsea’s current wage bill is £173  million and Manchester United’s £162million.

What this means to those clubs below them is also significant. Whereas Arsenal planned for the day when their commercial revenues would catch up to their real value, those clubs who have not moved stadiums, notably Tottenham, Liverpool and Everton, face falling even further behind.

[GP]

Exactly right.

[Power n Glory]

http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/07/ivan-gazidis-promises-arsene-wenger-70m-to-spend-on-summer-transfers-3832068/


‘This year we are beginning to see something we have been planning for some time, which is the escalation in our financial firepower,’ said Gazidis.

‘I’m talking about an extra £70million of additional, high-margin revenue which we will be able to use.

‘We have a certain amount which we’ve held in reserve and we also have new revenue streams coming on board. All of these things mean we can do some things which would excite you.

These are the facts. Words quoted from Gazidis last summer.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/07/ivan-gazidis-promises-arsene-wenger-70m-to-spend-on-summer-transfers-3832068/



These are the facts. Words quoted from Gazidis last summer.

They signed Ozil.

[Power n Glory]

They signed Ozil.

We spent £70m on Ozil? :blink:

You're smarter than this, NQ.

[Munchies]

They signed Ozil.

£32m net overall spend in the summer.

Leaving £40m+ which could have helped us walk to the title.

We could've got Higuain for £28m, long before Napoli got the Cavani money, but he was haggling and only wanted to pay £22m max.

[Power n Glory]

Exactly right. :coffee:

[Özim]

I've had enough of the next summer, next season is when it begins scenario, heard too much of this BS for years to believe it, this season was last chance saloon and in my eyes Wenger is failing, he needed to show us something different, unfortunately he hasn't, we've seen this before. We've been at the top at this time of year before only to watch us collapse when it matters, failing to beat the top teams time and time again when it matters, this season is no different to a few years ago except for the fact we have no strikeforce now.

He's still obsessed with midfielders, still doesn't motivate his team, still doesn't sign the players we need in the positions needed, still makes illogical decisions, still isn't proactive or even reactive during matches.

What's actually changed? Well you might argue the big money spending has, however after losing 8-2 to Man U a few years back we also went on a big money spree panic buying 5 or so players at the end of August, the only difference this time is we spent it on one player, we still failed to sign the players we needed in the preceding 3 months.

So yeah I haven't really seen much change overall. Time is up for Wenger now, I'm not personally wanting to her anything about next summer, next season etc, if he doesn't deliver this season it's game over from my point of view, he's not changed his ways so it's win or bust now.

[JonasTC]

You guys should manage our club, we would win the treble every season :bow:

[Özim]

One things for sure it would be more exciting than it is now! Plus we might actually see signings come in to solve problem areas.

Wenger just doesn't get it, it's all about midfield, if he could have a team full of central midfielders he would.

[Globalgunner]

Sometimes you just have to throw your hands in the air and give up. I have. Some of us it seems are more concerned with keeping up the illusion of competing for trophies than actually doing that. This is what Wenger guarantees, a pretence. He knows winning is hard and so prefers to avoid it as winning becomes a greater challenge to maintain than simply competing. Hence Wenger even in his pomp, could never retain the PL.I doubt if any club in the top 5 of the top 4 leagues in Europe, ie EPL, la liga, Italian Serie A and Bundesliga. Has kept it's manager, only Arsenal, despite the barren years. What has it profitted Us? Only in our balance sheet, not on the pitch where we are on a small circular loop of top 4 and CL last 16 places. Arsene fears a challenge, while top clubs and managers relish it. Even successful managers like Pep, want a change, to make a name. Arsene just wants to keep getting paid. He won't t leave because he could be found out.He buys Ozil, when he really needed Higuin, but his pride was hurt buy not being able to get him on a cheap, albeit agreed price. What does that matter when it's not your money. I recall when he bought Diarra from Chelsea some years back. He was so excited, not by the player but because he only paid 3m for him......We all know how that ended and for all the fluff about Chelsea and City's billions, I Thank God for them, because without those 2 and Wenger's indolence , we would probably be looking at a 10 year unbeaten United trophy romp. 10 years,can you imagine what a miserable world that would be to live in, with the fawning press and their insufferably conceited fans swaggering all over the place8 years ago when Wenger was asked why he didn't buy Ribery, his answer was. WHERE WOULD I PLAY HIM.? Doh!. This when Ribery was nailed on as a Pires replacement. SHEESH.

[Globalgunner]

You guys should manage our club, we would win the treble every season :bow:

You guys should manage our club we would not win a thing in 50 years. Is that you Arsene.?. Stop hiding under the name JONASTC

[Power n Glory]

I'm just waiting for someone to say the funds aren't being made available to Arsene! :lol:

Around and around we go!

[Niall_Quinn]

We spent £70m on Ozil? :blink:

You're smarter than this, NQ.

Ah, so ends the debate and on to the personal stuff. Didn't take long.


This year we are beginning to see something we have been planning for some time, which is the escalation in our financial firepower,’ said Gazidis.

‘I’m talking about an extra £70million of additional, high-margin revenue which we will be able to use.

‘We have a certain amount which we’ve held in reserve and we also have new revenue streams coming on board. All of these things mean we can do some things which would excite you.

If signing Ozil didn't excite people then they are hard to excite. We tried for other players too, didn't get them. Plenty was said about that at the time. Wenger didn't spend the whole £70mill, but we spent £42mill on one player. How is that the same old Arsenal and how can people seriously claim that's not a significant shift? I was probably the loudest voice shouting against the board and the manager's financial policies. Then they proved me wrong with a massive outlay on a genuinely world class addition to the squad. When are others going to give up on the obviously nonsense argument that things are the same as they have always been? True, we haven't done EVERYTHING in one hit, is that what people are having a problem with? True as well, Wenger continues to perplex us with some of his decision making. It's frustrating. But considering these guys are starting to deliver what they promised all along then why will some of the fans not give them a chance to proceed? Not only that but we are still competing in this title race. We have stumbled but only to the same degree as our opposition. We may be fucking up against direct rivals, but the opposition are fucking up against relegation candidates FFS. If Wenger is so shit then how shit are Maureen and Pellegrini? How much cash will those guys have to throw at buying the league before people notice the return on their investment is a tiny fraction compared to ours?

I'm not excusing Wenger's team selection or his tactics or the form of Wilshere or any of the other factors some here are gleefully honing in on. What I'm saying is we've done better than expected on the pitch, we're doing marvellously well off the pitch. What's so intolerable about sticking behind the club at this key moment when all the shit we have put up with starts to unwind in our favour? One of the camps is going to look bloody stupid come the summer and in subsequent years. Either we've been had, in which case that will generate a lot of anger, or what the board and manager have been working towards for 10 years will yield results. I'd rather run the risk of looking a fool for backing the team than trashing the team in advance by studiously ignoring the very evident changes that have been taking place. We haven't done it all in one hit, true. Is that in any way realistic? Not really. But the momentum is forward. Some moan when we go forward and moan when we go back. Some want to blow it up at the last minute, almost a last ditch desperation to be proved right. In reality there are lots of toys from lots of prams being thrown by lots of spoiled kids. Here we are, on the verge of stepping up to the big stage, having done it without financial doping, a point off the lead, big games in Europe coming up, players like Ozil on the pitch. Most fans would give their right arm but some of ours will only go as far as sticking two fingers in the air. And while most of them will be gushing if things keep moving ahead, there will still be those who moan. They'll always find something. It's boring.

[Niall_Quinn]

Leaving £40m+ which could have helped us walk to the title.

Like the chavs and gypos are walking it?

[GP]

You know this place has gone mental when N_Q is the only one making sense.

[Niall_Quinn]

I've had enough of the next summer, next season is when it begins scenario, heard too much of this BS for years to believe it, this season was last chance saloon and in my eyes Wenger is failing, he needed to show us something different, unfortunately he hasn't, we've seen this before.

An analogy would be a mortgage payer. He spends 24 years saying, fuck these fucking mortgage repayments. Always the same shit. In year 25 he burns the fucking house down because he's just had enough with fucking mortgage repayments. That sure showed them.

[Özim]

Ah, so ends the debate and on to the personal stuff. Didn't take long.



If signing Ozil didn't excite people then they are hard to excite. We tried for other players too, didn't get them. Plenty was said about that at the time. Wenger didn't spend the whole £70mill, but we spent £42mill on one player. How is that the same old Arsenal and how can people seriously claim that's not a significant shift? I was probably the loudest voice shouting against the board and the manager's financial policies. Then they proved me wrong with a massive outlay on a genuinely world class addition to the squad. When are others going to give up on the obviously nonsense argument that things are the same as they have always been? True, we haven't done EVERYTHING in one hit, is that what people are having a problem with? True as well, Wenger continues to perplex us with some of his decision making. It's frustrating. But considering these guys are starting to deliver what they promised all along then why will some of the fans not give them a chance to proceed? Not only that but we are still competing in this title race. We have stumbled but only to the same degree as our opposition. We may be fucking up against direct rivals, but the opposition are fucking up against relegation candidates FFS. If Wenger is so shit then how shit are Maureen and Pellegrini? How much cash will those guys have to throw at buying the league before people notice the return on their investment is a tiny fraction compared to ours?

I'm not excusing Wenger's team selection or his tactics or the form of Wilshere or any of the other factors some here are gleefully honing in on. What I'm saying is we've done better than expected on the pitch, we're doing marvellously well off the pitch. What's so intolerable about sticking behind the club at this key moment when all the shit we have put up with starts to unwind in our favour? One of the camps is going to look bloody stupid come the summer and in subsequent years. Either we've been had, in which case that will generate a lot of anger, or what the board and manager have been working towards for 10 years will yield results. I'd rather run the risk of looking a fool for backing the team than trashing the team in advance by studiously ignoring the very evident changes that have been taking place. We haven't done it all in one hit, true. Is that in any way realistic? Not really. But the momentum is forward. Some moan when we go forward and moan when we go back. Some want to blow it up at the last minute, almost a last ditch desperation to be proved right. In reality there are lots of toys from lots of prams being thrown by lots of spoiled kids. Here we are, on the verge of stepping up to the big stage, having done it without financial doping, a point off the lead, big games in Europe coming up, players like Ozil on the pitch. Most fans would give their right arm but some of ours will only go as far as sticking two fingers in the air. And while most of them will be gushing if things keep moving ahead, there will still be those who moan. They'll always find something. It's boring.

We spent 42 million on Ozil after fruitlessly chasing players all summer rather than accepting a player isn't coming or upping our offers and then moving on to someone else, we waste so much time chasing one player it's ridiculous to be honest.


Yes Ozil was a great exciting signing, but was he really what we needed, did we need another midfielder....really (as I've said before I'm a big fan of his but it doesn't change the facts)?

You harp on about all the change, but apart from one signing, which as pointed out was essentially similar to our panic buying spree a few years ago (all be it all spent on one player) there's not a lot that has changed, we challenged for the title a few years ago, fell away from February onwards and then regressed the following season. Next season is going to be tougher all round and I don't trust Wenger to sign the right players and any players he signs will probably come at the end of August which is just plain stupid tbh.

Marvellously on the pitch, we've done OK in terms of points but in the last month or two we've been plain awful and barely scraping wins until we got found out by Liverpool, we've tired, got injuries and run out of steam now as usual, where is the change here?

Without a fundamental change in how the manager does things, the change is minimal and will reap absolutely no rewards in future I'm afraid, you can be sure about that and I don't trust the guy to spend another penny, he doesn't know how to spend money for the good of the team.

[Fist of Lehmann]

We spent £70m on Ozil? :blink:

You're smarter than this, NQ.

£70m "high margin revenue" does not equate to £70m spending money, unless you're running a 100% margin and your costs are zero.

Moreover, the Ozil transfer cost £42.5m, plus £7.28m wages in this financial year, plus signing-on fee, bonuses and image rights (cost unknown).

We also spent £5,485,961 in agents fees for the period Oct 12 to Sep 13.

I don't know how much actual money we had to spend last summer, but this is to illustrate that buying players at the Ozil level is significantly more expensive and involved than just subtracting 2 big black tabloid numbers from each other.

[Özim]

An analogy would be a mortgage payer. He spends 24 years saying, fuck these fucking mortgage repayments. Always the same shit. In year 25 he burns the fucking house down because he's just had enough with fucking mortgage repayments. That sure showed them.

How is that even the same, we don't need Wenger to make us successful, we need a manager who's primary goal is success, Wenger isn't a necessity, I'd say he's a hindrance to potential success.

[Power n Glory]

£70m "high margin revenue" does not equate to £70m spending money, unless you're running a 100% margin and your costs are zero.

Moreover, the Ozil transfer cost £42.5m, plus £7.28m wages in this financial year, plus signing-on fee, bonuses and image rights (cost unknown).

We also spent £5,485,961 in agents fees for the period Oct 12 to Sep 13.

I don't know how much actual money we had to spend last summer, but this is to illustrate that buying players at the Ozil level is significantly more expensive and involved than just subtracting 2 big black tabloid numbers from each other.

There we go. We have a winner.

[Özim]

You know you need to change your stand when GP endorses what you say.

[Özim]

£70m "high margin revenue" does not equate to £70m spending money, unless you're running a 100% margin and your costs are zero.

Moreover, the Ozil transfer cost £42.5m, plus £7.28m wages in this financial year, plus signing-on fee, bonuses and image rights (cost unknown).

We also spent £5,485,961 in agents fees for the period Oct 12 to Sep 13.

I don't know how much actual money we had to spend last summer, but this is to illustrate that buying players at the Ozil level is significantly more expensive and involved than just subtracting 2 big black tabloid numbers from each other.

Yeah but we also culled a lot of the squad thus saving wages, we've also got rid of a lot of big salaries over the years.

[Power n Glory]

Yeah but we also culled a lot of the squad thus saving wages, we've also got rid of a lot of big salaries over the years.

If we have another quiet summer there will be more talk and speculation on whether funds are being made available to Wenger. We've done this before.

[Fist of Lehmann]

There we go. We have a winner.

How do you make any kind of rational leap from what I said to "we have no money"?

[GP]

Rational :lol:

[Power n Glory]

Ah, so ends the debate and on to the personal stuff. Didn't take long.



If signing Ozil didn't excite people then they are hard to excite. We tried for other players too, didn't get them. Plenty was said about that at the time. Wenger didn't spend the whole £70mill, but we spent £42mill on one player. How is that the same old Arsenal and how can people seriously claim that's not a significant shift? I was probably the loudest voice shouting against the board and the manager's financial policies. Then they proved me wrong with a massive outlay on a genuinely world class addition to the squad. When are others going to give up on the obviously nonsense argument that things are the same as they have always been? True, we haven't done EVERYTHING in one hit, is that what people are having a problem with? True as well, Wenger continues to perplex us with some of his decision making. It's frustrating. But considering these guys are starting to deliver what they promised all along then why will some of the fans not give them a chance to proceed? Not only that but we are still competing in this title race. We have stumbled but only to the same degree as our opposition. We may be fucking up against direct rivals, but the opposition are fucking up against relegation candidates FFS. If Wenger is so shit then how shit are Maureen and Pellegrini? How much cash will those guys have to throw at buying the league before people notice the return on their investment is a tiny fraction compared to ours?

I'm not excusing Wenger's team selection or his tactics or the form of Wilshere or any of the other factors some here are gleefully honing in on. What I'm saying is we've done better than expected on the pitch, we're doing marvellously well off the pitch. What's so intolerable about sticking behind the club at this key moment when all the shit we have put up with starts to unwind in our favour? One of the camps is going to look bloody stupid come the summer and in subsequent years. Either we've been had, in which case that will generate a lot of anger, or what the board and manager have been working towards for 10 years will yield results. I'd rather run the risk of looking a fool for backing the team than trashing the team in advance by studiously ignoring the very evident changes that have been taking place. We haven't done it all in one hit, true. Is that in any way realistic? Not really. But the momentum is forward. Some moan when we go forward and moan when we go back. Some want to blow it up at the last minute, almost a last ditch desperation to be proved right. In reality there are lots of toys from lots of prams being thrown by lots of spoiled kids. Here we are, on the verge of stepping up to the big stage, having done it without financial doping, a point off the lead, big games in Europe coming up, players like Ozil on the pitch. Most fans would give their right arm but some of ours will only go as far as sticking two fingers in the air. And while most of them will be gushing if things keep moving ahead, there will still be those who moan. They'll always find something. It's boring.

That's not an insult. You knew what I was getting at regarding the funds and strengthening the squad. Ozil was a an exciting purchase and I'm not going to debate that but it shouldn't take a lengthy debate to figure out why I'm annoyed. All this talk of toys out of the pram...you're taking the piss.


True, we haven't done EVERYTHING in one hit, is that what people are having a problem with?

Yes, that's my problem because I don't think you understand how huge an opportunity this is for us. Why in the world aren't we making the most of our resources when the odds are so stacked against us? As said, those oil rich clubs won't stand still next season and I would have liked for us to have been more ruthless with our title chase. The other issues regarding management, I've outlined in another post, so I won't go on and on. This opportunity may not come again like this and we should be going full pelt for it since we're up against clubs with unlimited resources.

[Özim]

Rational :lol:

rational

adjective

1. based on or in accordance with reason or logic.

[Power n Glory]

How do you make any kind of rational leap from what I said to "we have no money"?

I didn't say anything about having no money. I just knew we'd start speculating about how much Wenger actually has to spend and what's been made available as you've just demonstrated. It's all very long winded and we've had these sort of debates before.

[Fist of Lehmann]

I didn't say anything about having no money. I just knew we'd start speculating about how much Wenger actually has to spend and what's been made available as you've just demonstrated. It's all very long winded and we've had these sort of debates before.

There was no speculation in my post.

There was something about the fallacy of taking revenue for profit.

And there was something about the fallacy of taking transfer fees at face value.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

That's untrue. Wenger had £70m last summer and he said more was coming in as seen with the Puma deal. 'We can do things that will excite you'. Remember that? When Ivan was talking crazy, Wenger was looking at cheap deals for Sanogo and Flamini, talking bollocks about Sanogo not making the headlines because he doesn't cost £50m. The kid has yet to feature for us and he's been injured all season. It pisses me off the more I think about.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/07/ivan-gazidis-promises-arsene-wenger-70m-to-spend-on-summer-transfers-3832068/

Yes....that did irritate me somewhat to say the least.

Arguably the most ominous omen was Wenger's line in the summer about working towards competing at the top level in the next 2/3 years. I died a slow, quiet death that day and could barely believe what I was hearing.

As much as I am glad he remains and want him to continue I cannot escape the nagging feeling that the manager just doesn't fully accept or want the challenge of managing a top club in football in its modern day incarnation and malevolent-quasi-bastard form. I feel he is too ingrained and indoctrinated to football and Arsenal to come to that realisation candidly and walk away from it all.

I hope I am wrong and that the continuation of flogging the future either ceases or slows down. We do not want to see the club come of age in the future with someone else at the helm, we want to see it come of age now, with you at the helm Arsene. Least I do anyway :d

And I actually think Wilshere was okay yesterday aside from a few moments. I must be mad...

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Whilst what Fisherman says is right....the real value of players nearly always far exceeds the numbers we associate with; there is no doubt we could have had our cake and eaten it last summer. We knowingly targeted two positions as the prime positions to recruit in and we did not manage to wholesomely meet that ambition in either position.

[Power n Glory]

Whilst what Fisherman says is right....the real value of players nearly always far exceeds the numbers we associate with; there is no doubt we could have had our cake and eaten it last summer. We knowingly targeted two positions as the prime positions to recruit in and we did not manage to wholesomely meet that ambition in either position.

That's the key point I think he's missing. We haven't done all we can with our resources this season.

[Power n Glory]

Yes....that did irritate me somewhat to say the least.

Arguably the most ominous omen was Wenger's line in the summer about working towards competing at the top level in the next 2/3 years. I died a slow, quiet death that day and could barely believe what I was hearing.

As much as I am glad he remains and want him to continue I cannot escape the nagging feeling that the manager just doesn't fully accept or want the challenge of managing a top club in football in its modern day incarnation and malevolent-quasi-bastard form. I feel he is too ingrained and indoctrinated to football and Arsenal to come to that realisation candidly and walk away from it all.

I hope I am wrong and that the continuation of flogging the future either ceases or slows down. We do not want to see the club come of age in the future with someone else at the helm, we want to see it come of age now, with you at the helm Arsene. Least I do anyway :d

And I actually think Wilshere was okay yesterday aside from a few moments. I must be mad...

There was an article posted up somewhere that most fans don't want a change in management just for our manager to change and adapt his methods. I'm happy for Wenger to stay another 10 years if he's willing to adjust. I just can't believe we're making the same sort of tactical mistakes on and off field year after year. That's what frustrates me to the core.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I will forgive the tactical reticence and even the peculiar subs, if he would just start a blooming season with a squad that he actually believes is ready to sustain a challenge and without glaring holes.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Have absolutely no idea what you look like, but I find it very difficult to believe someone would mistake you for Wenger.

:haha:

[Fist of Lehmann]

That's the key point I think he's missing. We haven't done all we can with our resources this season.

Again, and probably for the last time, the point I was making and the only point I was making, is this: if you are not rigorous in your thinking and instead free with your assumptions, you are most likely talking out of your hole.

This is unlikely to discourage anyone but there it is.

[Power n Glory]

Again, and probably for the last time, the point I was making and the only point I was making, is this: if you are not rigorous in your thinking and instead free with your assumptions, you are most likely talking out of your hole.

This is unlikely to discourage anyone but there it is.

Cheers for that well made point. Moving on......

[saintnickle]

They signed Ozil.
And what did he do with the other 40 million plus all the money saved in wages from
the 15 players we released????

[saintnickle]

You guys should manage our club, we would win the treble every season :bow:

Well we couldnt win any less than what we are doing at the moment jonas.Take your head out of your arse for a minute..

[Xhaka Can’t]

And what did he do with the other 40 million plus all the money saved in wages from
the 15 players we released????

He bought the world's largest cheeseburger for Arshavin as a leaving present.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Well we couldnt win any less than what we are doing at the moment jonas.Take your head out of your arse for a minute..

There isn't a day that goes by where I wish people like you were in charge.

Wenger is a monster.

[saintnickle]

He bought the world's largest cheeseburger for Arshavin as a leaving present.

I forgot about arshavins 80k a week .Some on here who defend Wenger to the hilt are using ozil to defend our transfer policy.Some are arguing that we spent far more than we did last summer .All of a sudden 42.5 m becomes closer to 60m with wages and agents fees.They forget to mention that we shipped out over a dozen players and whilst many didnt involve transfers there were a hell of a lot of wages saved.Gervinio,chamakh,santos,djourou,denielson,sq uillachi and the other 7 players we got rid of must come to 500k per week .So that means with the players that have come in we are saving over 250k a week.
This id for you jonas,steve and the other akbs .What do you think will happen to the surplus 40m saved on transfers last summer??

[Power n Glory]

A really good piece on Wilshere and our disjointed midfield.

http://wearethenorthbank.com/talented-mr-wilshere/


There is a truth near-wholly acknowledged among football watchers that players below a certain age, or a certain number of first team appearances (the exact numbers remain vague) are allowed a certain level of leeway with regard to the shortcomings in their game. It’s only fair. The underlying idea behind this is that being young, inexperienced, or both, they will eventually grow out of their flaws and learn from their past mistakes. It’s often a slow, but worthwhile, and most crucially visible process. It rarely happens particularly quickly but in observing many young players over time, it’s easy to see them steadily ironing out some of the more negative and inhibiting facets of their play.

Arsenal, like most teams, are heavily reliant on a well-functioning midfield. Between early March and late December 2013, they had put together their best midfield setup since Cesc Fàbregas’ departure in 2011. The key to it all was, and is, Aaron Ramsey, preferably and most often partnered by Mikel Arteta in the deep midfield pairing. They allow Arsenal to become something they had not been since Sol Campbell left: a team comfortable without the ball, perhaps more so than with it. It took Mesut Özil’s signing for attacking cogency to be added to the improved defensive play, and with a midfield in perfect working order, the team was thriving and they sat atop the league.

Ramsey’s goals were the first reference point for praise but far more important for Arsenal, in both defence and attack, are his remarkable engine and exceptional intelligence on the pitch. His movement in and around the box has always been impressive but more than where he goes, it’s about when he commits forward or remains back. Arsenal don’t get caught on the break when Ramsey is playing alongside Arteta, even when he sits significantly further up the pitch than his midfield partner. They barely concede goals with him there, and score plenty.

Under Liverpool’s heavy pressing in the game last weekend, Arsenal looked lost in a way they have not done since the home first leg against Bayern Munich last season, despite having met heavier and more efficient pressers than Brendan Rodgers’ side since. There was a struggle in the first half an hour of the home match against Borussia Dortmund, but once they found their feet, they were fine against it. Under heavy pressing, the players being attacked need simple passing options close to them. When Ramsey’s there, they have options, even if they aren’t Ramsey himself. Without him… well, Saturday happened.

Arsenal’s midfield shape against Liverpool was one not seen since before that Bayern game. That midfield shape was the main cause of some of the more disastrous defending of last season. The primary reason for that, in the most part, was Jack Wilshere, his errant positioning and love for an aimless roam up the pitch, with little intention of returning to his station. Arsenal with a disjointed midfield makes for Arsenal with a leaky defence, and Arsenal with an unfit-for-purpose forward line.

On Saturday, it was the exact same issues as last season. Wilshere sat and pushed far too high, Arteta struggled to make up the ground, the opposition had vast gaps to exploit and an exposed defence to attack. The fullbacks struggled, just as they did through a lot of last season, as they had no passing option on account of Arteta’s having to cover the position of two players 10 yards away from where he would ideally be, because who knows where Wilshere was. From there, it was easier for Liverpool to double up on both fullbacks and draw the two centre backs out of position.

Arteta came in for more criticism than Wilshere immediately following the game – mostly jibes about his mobility and struggles against Liverpool’s pace. Arteta isn’t perfect: he is slow and lacking the engine of the ‘top level’ defensive midfielders, and he has been known to play a little over-cautiously on the ball. He is a player who needs protecting and a bit of help, but with it he provides a valuable service which no other in the squad can do as well. Ramsey gives that help. Wilshere does not.

With Wilshere partnered by Mathieu Flamini, Arsenal lose a lot of their edge on the ball in midfield because they have one who is fairly average with the ball at his feet and another who, although far less limited, does not do enough practical and useful with it. In many games, that will not be the biggest of issues because even though they lose something without the first choice pair, most teams do not have enough to counterbalance that. But Bayern certainly do.

Ramsey makes up for some of that which is lost technically with Flamini over Arteta with his own smarter positioning and use of the ball. The greatest worry is that the issues with Wilshere are the same ones as last year. They are not technical limitations. He is an extraordinarily gifted player, but he does not appear to be learning from his mistakes. A year later and every problem that was prevalent then remains.

It is the case in so many areas. His lack of regard for defending is, of course, the standout. Beyond that, he still is not particularly adept at making himself available to receive the ball. He still holds onto the ball far too long in attacking areas. He still keeps dribbling until he gets fouled, tackled or forced into a move-killing sideways ball rather than play the earlier passes. His end product has shown improvement but it isn’t worth playing him in a central position where he damages the team’s setup for maybe 5-10 extra goals and assists each season.

Saturday, after half an hour and only the four conceded, marked the return of ‘Wilshere vs. The World’, while his teammates around him show themselves to be unworthy of the passion and drive he brings. Never mind that he was a major reason why the rest had played so poorly and he had no plans to help them out while he was on or off the ball. Another who specialises in such performances, especially this season, is Wayne Rooney. They have spent the game playing to their team’s detriment but ran forward with the ball a lot in the final third. To little end.

Wilshere’s best position in this team is on the right wing. There, he has permission to drift inside and aid Arsenal’s quicker one and two-touch play closer to the box, where he is highly skilled; there is scope for him to harness his fantastic dribbling and he is less damaging to the team’s overall shape. He can exist comfortably as something of a luxury while hopefully reaping the benefits of greater game time. In fairness to Wilshere; he needs a run of games.

But that is the issue. His goal and assist numbers are the best they’ve ever been, but beyond ever so slightly more productivity from deep midfield (most of the goals or assists have come from him playing the advanced roles), he does not appear to have learned much, if anything for the central roles. Upon returning to the middle, it’s the same as the shambles that was the first two thirds of last season.

Given the comparison with current Ramsey has been so pronounced, it makes sense to compare him to Ramsey in the time following his injury, given that is the stage Wilshere is in now. It took a while for Ramsey to recover his best self, but what was habitually visible was his constant work for the team and movement in front of goal and to receive the ball in midfield, which is not the case with Wilshere. The England International’s issues mainly emanate from a seeming unwillingness to actually use his brain. Slow progress is to be expected and understood, but that there has been so very little is deeply concerning.

Ramsey had similar problems with being slow to release the ball and often losing it, but he has always had an altruism and intelligence on the pitch that Wilshere never has. Wilshere, at the moment, is an individual around whom the team has to mould itself. The problem for Wilshere at this point is that Arsenal have better players to build around and he simply does not yet give nearly enough to warrant being the centre of all things.

For now, that leaves Wilshere in a purgatorial state. Either he becomes the team’s man or… who knows? Time is on Wilshere’s side. There are no questions about his ability. My hope at the start of this season was that he would shed the ‘Star Player Syndrome’ with the signing of Özil and Ramsey’s rise, but the signs have not been particularly encouraging. Wilshere is his own main obstacle, but we are at the point now where it is fair to worry whether or not it is an obstacle he will overcome.

[JonasTC]

I believe we're running a healthy club, that we can still cheer for in 50 years time and most of that is all Wenger, for being able to keep us in the champions league year in year out, when not having any money to spend (i think we had a +10m in total spending for last 10 years of transfers in/out).

How can people not trust Wenger to be good in a transfer window? Right now we have the best defence in the league, made from 2 unknowns, 2 home grown and an average player, molded in to world class. Wenger is probably one of the best in a transfer window, but if clubs are not willing to sell, what can we do? A club that is run to be financially healthy, dont go out and throw 5-10-15m extra for a player, if he's not worth it.

People keep saying "BUT HE DIDNT SIGN STRIKER IN JANUARY LOOOOL WNEGNER OUT!!"... Again, pls tell me who was available? and dont mention shit like berbatov, vucinic and eduardo, as much as you hate Bendtner he's at their level and it makes no sense paying 50k+ in wages for a player that dont add anything to our squad. Then why didnt we sign Diego Costa, Jackson Martinez, etc? First of all, they're both fighting for the title with their teams right now, so we had to double their normal asking price, just to be able to talk with them, and then those players would probably not join us 6 months before the world cup, risking their places at the world cup, since it takes quite some time to settle in a new country, culture and especially the premier league, so their form would probably suck a bit if they're thrown right in.

If you're going to reply to this comment, pls give me a proper answer, not just "loool you said Bendtner is good, i cant take you seriouos", no i didnt i said those players are as shit as him. And yes he signed Kim Kallstrom, it was a calculated risk that failed, move on.

[fakeyank]

I believe we're running a healthy club, that we can still cheer for in 50 years time and most of that is all Wenger, for being able to keep us in the champions league year in year out, when not having any money to spend (i think we had a +10m in total spending for last 10 years of transfers in/out).

How can people not trust Wenger to be good in a transfer window? Right now we have the best defence in the league, made from 2 unknowns, 2 home grown and an average player, molded in to world class. Wenger is probably one of the best in a transfer window, but if clubs are not willing to sell, what can we do? A club that is run to be financially healthy, dont go out and throw 5-10-15m extra for a player, if he's not worth it.

People keep saying "BUT HE DIDNT SIGN STRIKER IN JANUARY LOOOOL WNEGNER OUT!!"... Again, pls tell me who was available? and dont mention shit like berbatov, vucinic and eduardo, as much as you hate Bendtner he's at their level and it makes no sense paying 50k+ in wages for a player that dont add anything to our squad. Then why didnt we sign Diego Costa, Jackson Martinez, etc? First of all, they're both fighting for the title with their teams right now, so we had to double their normal asking price, just to be able to talk with them, and then those players would probably not join us 6 months before the world cup, risking their places at the world cup, since it takes quite some time to settle in a new country, culture and especially the premier league, so their form would probably suck a bit if they're thrown right in.

If you're going to reply to this comment, pls give me a proper answer, not just "loool you said Bendtner is good, i cant take you seriouos", no i didnt i said those players are as shit as him. And yes he signed Kim Kallstrom, it was a calculated risk that failed, move on.

1. We are not the best defense in the league at the moment. We were.
2. Our defense bar this season has been atrocious. Especially at set pieces.
3. If Kallstrom is a 'calculated' risk, then Berbatov wouldve been a lesser risk. Your Kallstrom argument again is absolute cack... its like defending a serial killer. Quit it!
4. Our football is slow and boring
5. We have not won anything for 8 seasons and look like going back to the same old routine of going toothless around Feb/March
6. Bendtner! Really? FFS.. No one should ever take you seriously.

[Power n Glory]

How can people not trust Wenger to be good in a transfer window?

Chamakh, Park, Santos, Gervinho, Podolski, Squillaci, Sanogo, Kallstrom, Arshavin, Giroud….

I’m not saying he hasn’t made good signings in recent years and not all the above are terrible, but an Arsene Wenger signing isn’t the same as what it used to be 10 years ago. I used to have complete faith that he could sign a player rough around the edges and turn him into a world class star. It worries me that he’s signed players that are being hoisted out after a couple of seasons because they’re that bad.

In regards to who we should sign, I don’t get paid to scout for Arsenal. I don’t have the time or resources to watch every game in various leagues so it’s unrealistic to ask anyone on here for a list of realistic targets. It’s not as if anyone here would have named Ozil as a realistic target early in the summer.

[Munchies]

I believe we're running a healthy club, that we can still cheer for in 50 years time and most of that is all Wenger, for being able to keep us in the champions league year in year out, when not having any money to spend (i think we had a +10m in total spending for last 10 years of transfers in/out).



:lol:

We're not asking Wenger to spend a shit load and get us into debt. All we're saying is that there has been significant money which has been made available to him to strengthen the team for many seasons now, and it's his failure to address the needs of the team to go out and spend it !

[JonasTC]

ffs all you do is criticize and dont come with any counter arguments for a solution, saying "im not this, im not that", hell how can you criticize in the first place then?

Im sorry, but i cant take most of you serious, when all you do is saying "Wenger out" and attack people that dont agree with you.

[Power n Glory]

ffs all you do is criticize and dont come with any counter arguments for a solution, saying "im not this, im not that", hell how can you criticize in the first place then?

Im sorry, but i cant take most of you serious, when all you do is saying "Wenger out" and attack people that dont agree with you.

As you always like to say, this isn’t Football Manager and if anyone comes up with a dream list of players, the typical response would be ‘ this isn’t Football Manager’. I’m just being realistic. The counter argument is very simple, Wenger should be making the most of his resources and we should have planned ahead this season. It’s not as if he didn’t know January would be a hard window so I’m not sure why he didn’t do the bulk of the work in the summer.

Going forward, maybe we need better scouts, a Director of Football to take control of the transfers…I really don’t know but I’d like to see a change in our approach so we’re not repeating ourselves over and over again.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I forgot about arshavins 80k a week .Some on here who defend Wenger to the hilt are using ozil to defend our transfer policy.Some are arguing that we spent far more than we did last summer .All of a sudden 42.5 m becomes closer to 60m with wages and agents fees.They forget to mention that we shipped out over a dozen players and whilst many didnt involve transfers there were a hell of a lot of wages saved.Gervinio,chamakh,santos,djourou,denielson,sq uillachi and the other 7 players we got rid of must come to 500k per week .So that means with the players that have come in we are saving over 250k a week.
This id for you jonas,steve and the other akbs .What do you think will happen to the surplus 40m saved on transfers last summer??
Why would I substantively respond to you?

In case you hadn't noticed, I don't take you seriously.

[Özim]

I believe we're running a healthy club, that we can still cheer for in 50 years time and most of that is all Wenger, for being able to keep us in the champions league year in year out, when not having any money to spend (i think we had a +10m in total spending for last 10 years of transfers in/out).

How can people not trust Wenger to be good in a transfer window? Right now we have the best defence in the league, made from 2 unknowns, 2 home grown and an average player, molded in to world class. Wenger is probably one of the best in a transfer window, but if clubs are not willing to sell, what can we do? A club that is run to be financially healthy, dont go out and throw 5-10-15m extra for a player, if he's not worth it.

People keep saying "BUT HE DIDNT SIGN STRIKER IN JANUARY LOOOOL WNEGNER OUT!!"... Again, pls tell me who was available? and dont mention shit like berbatov, vucinic and eduardo, as much as you hate Bendtner he's at their level and it makes no sense paying 50k+ in wages for a player that dont add anything to our squad. Then why didnt we sign Diego Costa, Jackson Martinez, etc? First of all, they're both fighting for the title with their teams right now, so we had to double their normal asking price, just to be able to talk with them, and then those players would probably not join us 6 months before the world cup, risking their places at the world cup, since it takes quite some time to settle in a new country, culture and especially the premier league, so their form would probably suck a bit if they're thrown right in.

If you're going to reply to this comment, pls give me a proper answer, not just "loool you said Bendtner is good, i cant take you seriouos", no i didnt i said those players are as shit as him. And yes he signed Kim Kallstrom, it was a calculated risk that failed, move on.

The defence has been a total shambles up until this season, IMO it's Bould's influence as the improvement coincides with him coming in, we've also conceded 6 and 5 in two games this season, whilst overall they've been better it's not been perfect.

Wenger has made plenty of dud signings that we've been stuck with as he stuck them on high wages, he's not better than any other manager statistically in the transfer window, but more importantly he doesn't sign players in the positions we need, he signs midfielders and tries to convert them most of the time.

There's always players you can sign if you're willing to pay, that's a fact, but he also had all of last summer to sign someone, depending on whether you want someone short term (in January) or long term here are some names, Balotelli, El Sharaawy, Huntelaar, Di Natale, Michu and the players you mentioned to name but a few, but you have to pay what their clubs want for them, and if you seriously want to compete that's a sacrifice you have to make.

Yes obviously some players may not come, however business should have been done last summer as mentioned, we knew we needed a striker but we failed to get one.

[saintnickle]

Why would I substantively respond to you?

In case you hadn't noticed, I don't take you seriously.
I dont care if you take me seriously or not.Im entitled to my opinion the same as you are .Im just asking you the question ??

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think more funds will be genuinely available for transfers.

[Penguin]

The thing that grates is not that we haven't won trophies, it's the fact that we see the same old shit every season. I'm not even talking about the investment in the squad, I'm talking about addressing our weaknesses, building a balanced squad and making positive strides towards winning trophies instead of showing us the same recycled rubbish every year. It feels like we're going in circles.

It did feel like this season might be different after we broke our transfer record with the Ozil signing and with our defence finally shaping up. But again Wenger didn't follow that up by buying the forward we were crying out for in the summer and worse wasting the January window while we were sat at the top of the table. And our defence, as good and consistent as they have been, has disappeared when it counts and embarrassed themselves against City and Liverpool.

Oh Arsenal :(

[saintnickle]

I think more funds will be genuinely available for transfers.

Are you an MP??

[Xhaka Can’t]

My initial instinct was right.

[saintnickle]

And what do you base that on??Is it in your experience of being a serial poster on a messageboard.

[Özim]

Was reading another forum the other day and some guy claimed that he'd thought about things and that when Wenger leaves he'll give up football because he won't be able to cope with all the rubbish signings!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I think more funds will be genuinely available for transfers.
Are you an MP??

I make him right in fairness. He didn't go so far as to say it'll be spent though.

[GP]

Was reading another forum the other day and apparently the bird is the word.

[Niall_Quinn]

Was on another forum the other day and for some bizarre reason I was banned.

[Niall_Quinn]

Was on another forum the other day and they confirmed refs are completely legit.

Weird, that's the forum I was banned from.

[Özim]

Weird, that's the forum I was banned from.

Ok was it FA.com?

[Özim]

Seems there's a lot more people doubting Wenger on these other forums, those supporting him seem to be in the minority. Think a lot of people have had enough of him and want him to call it a day.

[Letters]

Seems there's a lot more people doubting Wenger on these other forums, those supporting him seem to be in the minority. Think a lot of people have had enough of him and want him to call it a day.

Is that 'cos you ban anyone who says anything nice about him or the club?

[Özim]

Is that 'cos you ban anyone who says anything nice about him or the club?

No I'm not even a poster on the forum, I think it's because they've come out of denial?

[Letters]

No I'm not even a poster on the forum
Sounds like you should be.

You can go on a Bosman if you like.

[Özim]

Sounds like you should be.

You can go on a Bosman if you like.

I would but the guy in charge is a guy called "Arson Venga" and he won't cough up the dosh (admin costs and wages) apparently.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Does it have to be one polar extreme or another? If so, I'm going with the one that has the bears.

[Niall_Quinn]

Does it have to be one polar extreme or another? If so, I'm going with the one that has the bears.

Yes, there is no middle ground at all.
Yes, we got rid of the deadwood,
Yes, we spent some fucking money,
Yes, we tightened up the defence,
Yes, we had the best record in the league in 2013,
Yes, we are competing for the title in 2014...

BUT...

[Özim]

Does it have to be one polar extreme or another? If so, I'm going with the one that has the bears.

Yes, it's bears or penguins, I went with the penguins.

[Özim]

Yes, there is no middle ground at all.
Yes, we got rid of the deadwood,
Yes, we spent some fucking money,
Yes, we tightened up the defence,
Yes, we had the best record in the league in 2013,
Yes, we are competing for the title in 2014...

BUT...

2013 Champions :trophy:

[Niall_Quinn]

2013 Champions :trophy:

No - the improvement we all wanted to see. Improvement is a process, not an instantaneous transformation. We started tightening up in 2013 and now we have taken that on to a title challenge in 2014. Some have already concluded we are out of the race, despite the fact the chavs and gypos are dropping just as many points as we are. We aren't out of it at all. We are very much in it. Who can say this isn't a big improvement on pissing around in 5th trying to scrape a CL spot. Certainly it could all still go tits up, but at least wait to see if that happens before killing the manager. It's like that fat bag of shit Martin Samuel, demanding Wenger give his excuses for losing to Utd before the game was even played.

[Letters]

2013 Champions :trophy:
QED...

That's exactly what they've been talking about.
Champions and Abject Failure are not the only 2 options...

[Letters]

Oh, and penguins > bears tbh, much less likely to rip your face off.

[Özim]

No - the improvement we all wanted to see. Improvement is a process, not an instantaneous transformation. We started tightening up in 2013 and now we have taken that on to a title challenge in 2014. Some have already concluded we are out of the race, despite the fact the chavs and gypos are dropping just as many points as we are. We aren't out of it at all. We are very much in it. Who can say this isn't a big improvement on pissing around in 5th trying to scrape a CL spot. Certainly it could all still go tits up, but at least wait to see if that happens before killing the manager. It's like that fat bag of shit Martin Samuel, demanding Wenger give his excuses for losing to Utd before the game was even played.

The bookies think we're out of it and anyone who's watched use capitulate regularly in the last 8 years isn't going to be convinced we're in it. We've started the 1st part of our hard run by dropping 5 points out of 6, second part is in March and I have no confidence we can come out of it unscathed as time and time again we're unable to beat the best sides, this hasn't changed.

It's an improvement, but as I said we did the same a few years back and collapsed, I don't see how that's any different to that thus far.

How can you genuinely believe in a side who everything they are faced with adversity or come up against top sides fall? Until that changes noone is going to believe and it's not unreasonable to understand why.

[Özim]

QED...

That's exactly what they've been talking about.
Champions and Abject Failure are not the only 2 options...

After 8 years, continuing to collapse when it matters isn't an option anymore either, if things have changed we need to reverse that trend, the points are all very good but what does it mean if you have nothing to show for it at the end of it all?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We have a tough run but we now have no more of those 'tough' games that the rest do, in the league. If we can win most of the games against the pubbers we'd have 80 points so hopefully that would be enough (I don't think we'll lose all four in a row though).

[Özim]

We have a tough run but we now have no more of those 'tough' games that the rest do, in the league. If we can win most of the games against the pubbers we'd have 80 points so hopefully that would be enough (I don't think we'll lose all four in a row though).

The problem is the other teams are capable of winning the tough games, we've shown we're not, therein lies the problem. If we don't get some wins against the big boys we won't win the title.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

The problem is the other teams are capable of winning the tough games, we've shown we're not, therein lies the problem. If we don't get some wins against the big boys we won't win the title.

That is true but they've also shown greater capability in dropping points against the bottom half teams, hence why we're so close. If you can get your players to get over the disappointment of losing those big games (which is tough to keep doing granted) then in theory it makes no difference.

[Niall_Quinn]

The problem is the other teams are capable of winning the tough games, we've shown we're not, therein lies the problem. If we don't get some wins against the big boys we won't win the title.

No, their problems are the easy games.

[Özim]

No, their problems are the easy games.

Won't make a difference though because they'll end up with more points because in the big games they'll turn up. You won't win the title without proving you can beat the best teams, nor should you, you're suppose to be the best side if you win the title so should be able to take on and beat anyone.

[Letters]

After 8 years, continuing to collapse when it matters isn't an option anymore either, if things have changed we need to reverse that trend, the points are all very good but what does it mean if you have nothing to show for it at the end of it all?
Depends what you mean by 'nothing to show'.

If your only criteria for success is silverware (which I would suggest is far too simplistic) then we may well end up with 'nothing to show' from the season.
If we collapse and end up with similar points to last season then I'll agree that there will not have been as much progress as it seemed, if any. That can only be determined at the end of the season though. Right now we're only 1 point off the top so you're scratching around for something to moan about so you're complaining about future events.

Let's see where we are in May. So far we've been far more competitive than last year, we've been winning games that last year we'd have dropped points in, the defence is looking more solid (two freakish games accepted) and we've made our most ambitious signing arguably since Bergkamp. There are reasons for hope. I don't expect us to win the league but that should never have been the criteria for success this year.

[Özim]

Depends what you mean by 'nothing to show'.

If your only criteria for success is silverware (which I would suggest is far too simplistic) then we may well end up with 'nothing to show' from the season.
If we collapse and end up with similar points to last season then I'll agree that there will not have been as much progress as it seemed, if any. That can only be determined at the end of the season though. Right now we're only 1 point off the top so you're scratching around for something to moan about so you're complaining about future events.

Let's see where we are in May. So far we've been far more competitive than last year, we've been winning games that last year we'd have dropped points in, the defence is looking more solid (two freakish games accepted) and we've made our most ambitious signing arguably since Bergkamp. There are reasons for hope. I don't expect us to win the league but that should never have been the criteria for success this year.

Ultimately, for a big club that's the criteria, it's about winning not coming 2nd all the time. The problem with the progress you're suggesting is in doesn't help us at all in the near future, just because we have a few more points this season it doesn't mean we'll do better next season, as demonstrated when we were right up there in 2008. Moreover points are one thing, but until we beat the best teams, I just don't ever see us winning anything and that for me would be more progress than a simple points increase because psychologically the difference would be huge.

In May we'll be where we always are, in the top 4, having failed to beat the top teams with some fans saying let's see how he does in the summer, then the cycle will begin against and continue for the following seasons until AW eventually leaves and we have a manager with a great focus on winning.

There is no more "1 more season" for Wenger, people have been saying this for years and none of his promises have ever come to fruition and they never will because he'll never change the way he does things.

[Özim]

That is true but they've also shown greater capability in dropping points against the bottom half teams, hence why we're so close. If you can get your players to get over the disappointment of losing those big games (which is tough to keep doing granted) then in theory then it makes no difference.

Maybe they have and that's why this year has been our best chance (and will be for the foreseeable future), we could have given ourselves a great chance had we invested in a striker either last summer or in January, we didn't and we're now beginning to see the usual cracks appearing right about the same time they always do and with the run we have coming up I can only see one outcome, lacklustre tired looking performances, injuries, defeats, draws and the capitulation we've grown accustomed to over the years.

[Letters]

Ultimately, for a big club that's the criteria, it's about winning not coming 2nd all the time.
Agreed, but if we came 2nd that would be an improvement. It's heading in the right direction.


The problem with the progress you're suggesting is in doesn't help us at all in the near future.
Of course it does. If we're closer to the title this year than the last 2 seasons when we weren't anywhere near the race then it's progress, it's something to build on. Whether we will build on that...well, that remains to be seen and I agree there have been false dawns before but, again, there's no point in moaning about future events. There are a few reasons for hope which I've mentioned. Right now we're heading in the right direction, we can either be pleased about that and hope it continues or be all Eeyore and expect the worst.

Agreed about the psychological thing with the top teams, we need to sort that out.

[Özim]

Agreed, but if we came 2nd that would be an improvement. It's heading in the right direction.


Of course it does. If we're closer to the title this year than the last 2 seasons when we weren't anywhere near the race then it's progress, it's something to build on. Whether we will build on that...well, that remains to be seen and I agree there have been false dawns before but, again, there's no point in moaning about future events. There are a few reasons for hope which I've mentioned. Right now we're heading in the right direction, we can either be pleased about that and hope it continues or be all Eeyore and expect the worst.

Agreed about the psychological thing with the top teams, we need to sort that out.

I'm not sure it does, the other teams have faltered this season, most likely because of both having new managers who don't have their teams setup as they want them yet, next season you should seem them being stronger as the manager's tactics/style start to make more of an impact and as the teams they have are more as they would want them. Us getting 2nd or 3rd this season would offer no guarantee we'd be stronger for next season (again look at us in 2008 and the following seasons) where the other teams are more settled, winning makes you a better side as it gives you self belief, until we actually win something doubts will linger in the players minds.

The massive change for me would been to have seen us changing our transfer policy and/or beating the top sides, points totals aren't a good enough indicator IMO because every season is affected by many different factors, injuries, new managers, signings, cup draws, for me just because we have more points I wouldn't be confident about expecting more next season.

Without a shift in the manager's ideals/methodology we can't move forward unless we change manager.

[Globalgunner]

A manager who avoids buying a top striker, when he needs him, has the money, and has nothing else to do with the money, is not serious about his desires.
Either or both of 2 things should drive a manager to succeed, a) the desire to win things, b) the fear of failure. In Wenger's case he has neither of these things, hence our stagnation.

We bought Ozil, but in truth, he wasn't what we needed. Glad hes here though, but for how long?

Juat reading Mourinho`s comments on Wenger. LOOOOL at me

[Letters]

I'm not sure it does, the other teams have faltered this season, most likely because of both having new managers who don't have their teams setup as they want them yet.
City have one more point than at this stage last season, Chelsea have 8 more points than at this stage last year.
Yes, they might be better next year but surely the better we are this year the more chance we have to build on that.

Us getting 2nd or 3rd this season would offer no guarantee we'd be stronger for next season
No, of course not. But what would you prefer, another limp into 4th place on the last day? You just said Chelsea and City would be stronger next year, if we were well off the pace this year we'd have even less chance next.

FFS man, when are you ever happy? We've scraped into 4th the last two years, this year we're seriously in the title race and that's still not good enough.
The Ozil signing DID show a new ambition, it would have been nice to augment that in January but it's a start. We now have new sponsorship deals in place which should allow us to compete more seriously. It's always going to be difficult against teams with effectively infinite resources but it gives us a bit more of a chance.

We're exceeding your pre-season expectations so far and you're still not happy :shrug:

[Özim]

City have one more point than at this stage last season, Chelsea have 8 more points than at this stage last year.
Yes, they might be better next year but surely the better we are this year the more chance we have to build on that.

No, of course not. But what would you prefer, another limp into 4th place on the last day? You just said Chelsea and City would be stronger next year, if we were well off the pace this year we'd have even less chance next.

FFS man, when are you ever happy? We've scraped into 4th the last two years, this year we're seriously in the title race and that's still not good enough.
The Ozil signing DID show a new ambition, it would have been nice to augment that in January but it's a start. We now have new sponsorship deals in place which should allow us to compete more seriously. It's always going to be difficult against teams with effectively infinite resources but it gives us a bit more of a chance.

We're exceeding your pre-season expectations so far and you're still not happy :shrug:

Seeing us beat some of the big sides would suffice for me, or going out and actually signing the players we need. Seeing us getting more points only to fail where we have always failed before (in February March and by losing to the top sides), feels like we're never actually changing the fundamental problems at the club which will stop us ever winning anything.

If you want people to believe you need to show them that things really have changed, as for exceeding expectations, we shouldn't be, we're only exceeding them due to people having lowered expectations as a consequence of previous seasons and lack of investment in the team.

[Letters]

Expectations can only reasonably be based on the previous season, yes we're a top club and ultimately we want to be competing at the very top level but if we just limped into the top 4 two years in a row then clearly a title challenge is a welcome surprise and shows we may be heading in the right direction.
Of course we have to maintain that but, for now, there's some cause for hope.
Agree about beating the big sides though, we seem to have a real mental block there.

[Niall_Quinn]

I can cover his moaning from around 8pm onwards if you want a break.

[Özim]

I can cover his moaning from around 8pm onwards if you want a break.

Sounds good but how will you whine about refs, Mourinho, City and the FA if you're busy doing that?

[Maestro]

I can cover his moaning from around 8pm onwards if you want a break.


:haha::rimshot:

/

[Xhaka Can’t]

I can cover his moaning from around 8pm onwards if you want a break.

:haha:

[Globalgunner]

The Arsenal loser tribute act in sync again I see

[Letters]

I can cover his moaning from around 8pm onwards if you want a break.

:haha: Thanks. We should sort out some kind of rota.

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BggnG5tIMAArTqq.jpg

ffs

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Ahhh don't remind us please....... the weekends only just started!

[Gooner23]

I didn't need an image created by an 11 year old on paint to know giroud missed an easy chance.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

The direction of the header is irrelevant, he hadn't put himself in a good enough place to head it properly. In truth, his heading isn't really that good.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

It would appear not....

[GP]

Ellen Page is gay.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Must have spent a night with Mourinho.

[Penguin]

I like how the two green arrows on the right are going wide too :lol:

[Özim]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BggnG5tIMAArTqq.jpg

ffs

Probably due to that ridiculous quiff being too heavy for the other shaven side of his head.

I feel that if someone had stuck a mirror behind the goal he would have scored though.