Wenger Out ?

[Power n Glory]

Guys, we are in danger of scraping the bottom of the deepest buried barrel here. In the last couple of posts I can see there is zero actual appreciation of the good things that have happened at this club over the last years, or at least any appreciation is an impatient lip service in anticipation of some main course that is undefined and apparently left up to the gods or devils to produce. We're even suggesting opening the door to a murderer, thief, human rights abuser, why? Because he has cash. Well Wenger and the few who stuck it out now have cash too and nobody died. When Wenger leaves I certainly hope we can do the bare minimum and afford him some credit, a couple of years thereafter. Hopefully we won't congratulate ourselves too much for our restrained generosity, or maybe we will. I also hope we remember how half our fan base reacted when a few adverse chips went down but I think amnesia will be the preference. Crashing the car is a reference to the fracture between the fans, the club will go on regardless.

This is where the debates get tedious because your picking out the most trivial parts of a post and not making an attempt to even engage with the real questions. Continue to pat yourself on the back and award yourself the gold star for excellent conduct in this sad, sorry affair. You're a model example of a true Arsenal fan ;) Happy?

[Niall_Quinn]

This is where the debates get tedious because your picking out the most trivial parts of a post and not making an attempt to even engage with the real questions. Continue to pat yourself on the back and award yourself the gold star for excellent conduct in this sad, sorry affair. You're a model example of a true Arsenal fan ;) Happy?

Why are you putting trivia in your post then?

[Power n Glory]

Although I do believe that Wenger should shoulder some of the blame, I do not think it is entirely his fault.

I get the impression that the Board have this blind optimism that Wenger does everything right (whether this is fuelled by the revenue his business dealings generate is for another debate). I don't believe that Bould falls into this category, but when you have 20 other people going yes to everything you say with only 1 saying otherwise, then human nature usually leans towards the majority.

It's almost as if Wenger has become a bratty childhood star surrounded by a bunch of "Yes Men" and he's ignoring his 1 true Friend.

I wholeheartedly agree that things need to change, but I do not believe that this should be the Manager...

Personally, I think they should bring Dein back as well as allow Usamov to be part of the Board (which I know alot of people will disagree with).

Dein & Wenger were a perfect match, as they are both Friends and trust eachother wholeheartedly. I don't get the impression that Wenger feels the same with Gazidis, so he's trying to shoulder too much of the burden. The drop in form at Arsenal has been on a steady decline since his departure, and I do not believe it was simply coincidence.

The whole matter about our fractured ownership is almost laughable. It's like watching a bunch of kids arguing about who gets to next play on the swing. Let him come aboard and put his money where his mouth is. Worry less about the needless politics and get the Club back on the road to success!

I wonder if Dein can make a comeback? I don’t see why it would be a problem since PHW has stepped down. He’s still close to the club so I guess we’ll see. But I don’t think that’s enough to change things. For starters, Dein and Wenger seem to have totally different views when it comes to football finance. Dein wanted a move to Wembley and financing from Kronke and Usamov. That’s goes against Wenger’s principles.

Besides that, I think the main problem we have is on the field. Wenger needs to change is training methods drastically if he wants to survive in this era. Days of us finding diamonds in the rough are well and truly over. We’re very unlikely to find undervalued players in the current market and it seems like Wenger’s new strategy is to raid the lower divisions in the French and English leagues. It’s all too risky because we’re still paying around £10m for players that may turn out to be a complete waste of time and will take longer to develop because of the league quality. It’s okay to try and find undervalued players but we really need to update our strategy. I hope to see more Ozil like signings in the future but I’m really not a fan of this hands off approach, no instructions type training we have going on here. It works for some but not for all. Some players may develop and others may just get lost because they haven’t a clue what they should be doing. Theo has so much untapped potential still sitting there and I think he’s an example of a very slow development process.

From Board level, how can they actually intervene? I think they are totally dependent on Wenger’s input for the football stuff. None of them are football men and it would help if we had people on the Board that were up to date on the modern game. But there is always a thin line because I wouldn’t want too much influence from that level imposed on the manager. It’s a fine balance. Considering the transition from Highbury to the Emirate, I doubt the Board were keen on rocking the boat and demanding trophies because we were still in the building stage. Chelsea and now City had just entered the game and Wenger was still keeping us in the top 4. When you look at it like that, it’s quite an achievement. Trying to wrestle control back from Wenger or put demands on him at that point would have been risky at that stage. I understand their caution.

What I don’t understand is how Wenger can go 9 years without a trophy. As a man that hates to lose, just like any coach or athlete, he should have been banging on the Boards door if he felt he needed more funds or support to build a trophy winning team. Even though we’ve been restricted financially, I don’t believe the Board would deny him funds if he knew there was a player out there that would help win us a title. This season just summed it up for me. We had the funds to spend and we knew the team was lacking but we still went in short when there was no need to. He chose to gamble on Sanogo, another cheap gamble from a low division. That’s the sort of thing I can’t understand and still truly believe this was the best opportunity in years to win the title. It’s not all over. We have the FA Cup and it’s winnable. But if Wenger is to stay on, he really needs to change his ways. This sort of thing drives me mental. Excuse the longwinded rant. I need to get back to work myself! :lol: But if we change things at Board level and someone more hands takes over, would that maybe push Wenger over the edge? Would he accept such a change because he always says he likes the set up here and working without interference. You see his reaction to outside criticism from ‘experts’ so it would take someone really good to get through to him. That goes back full circle to the Dein question. :lol:

[1_nilto the arsenal]

Here's my view. The manager and the players have to share the blame for our failures from going from championship contenders to 4th place pretenders. The players are simply not good enough and those players were signed by Wenger, and to be honest you dont need to spend 30 or 40 million for a striker, midfielder or defender, coz all you need is a very good scouting system and network of players and club alliances, then you can find the players that fit our business model in terms of our financial restrictions. So there you have it.

[Letters]

The players aren't good enough to win the title - although IMO add a top class striker and we'd be very close. They're good enough not to get their arses handed to them by Chelsea though and you can't completely blame Wenger for that. You can debate endlessly about tactics but off the top of my head the 2nd goal was started by Ox giving the ball away cheaply when we were breaking up field. Just generally we kept on giving the ball away and you can't just blame the manager for that.

[I am invisible]

The players aren't good enough to win the title - although IMO add a top class striker and we'd be very close....

Yeah, Liverpool are testament to that - they're still shipping in goals all over the place, but as long as they can smash in 3/4/5/6 in response at the other end then it's not proving to be much of an issue.

I suppose even we were proving the point earlier in the season when we had Ramsey fit - even having just that single runner from midfield made us look like a different animal, so you'd have to hope that a fit Ramsey and Walcott, plus a couple of quality additions to the attack over the summer would make a big difference to our results, even if we continue to go into games out with no real thought about tactics, and embarrass ourselves against our main rivals?

[Power n Glory]

The players aren't good enough to win the title - although IMO add a top class striker and we'd be very close. They're good enough not to get their arses handed to them by Chelsea though and you can't completely blame Wenger for that. You can debate endlessly about tactics but off the top of my head the 2nd goal was started by Ox giving the ball away cheaply when we were breaking up field. Just generally we kept on giving the ball away and you can't just blame the manager for that.

Ox was at fault for the 1st goal. But he’s spent the majority of his Arsenal career on the wings. There is always that possibility that he’d take more risks in areas he shouldn’t. Wenger should know that. It’s not as if we passed the ball brilliantly in our previous two games. Also, we’re up against Mourinho and he’ll always have a strong midfield core to out muscle and press us. When you take that into consideration, we shouldn’t have committed so many men forward. It left us open to a counter.

Cazorla was at fault for the 2nd and 3rd. But they’re all preventable when you consider the fact we lost the ball high up the pitch. We shouldn’t have been so gung-ho. Even against Swansea when we were 2-1 up, Wenger said we should have committed more men forwards to stop them from scoring. I think it leaves the players confused and since he doesn’t give instructions some of the players might not be on the same wavelength. We've had this sort of problem with several different teams since Mourinho's first arrival.

[Dein-machine]

The players aren't good enough to win the title - although IMO add a top class striker and we'd be very close. They're good enough not to get their arses handed to them by Chelsea though and you can't completely blame Wenger for that. You can debate endlessly about tactics but off the top of my head the 2nd goal was started by Ox giving the ball away cheaply when we were breaking up field. Just generally we kept on giving the ball away and you can't just blame the manager for that.

The players aren't good enough to win the league - agreed
Add a top class striker - agreed.

Therefore wouldn't you like a manager who sees the need to have both of the above in place during a decade of mediocricy.

If Rodgers played Sturridge or Sterling in CM, if Maureen played Hazard in CM or Pelegrini played Navaz or Nasri CM - they would also give the ball away in dangerous positions. Our problem is that those managers use players to their strengths. Ox does not posses the greatest footballing brain nor the best passing ability. He has pace, can score goals & will scare defences backwards. That is where he should be used but unfortunately Wumger has made his mind up & we all know what happens after that.

[LDG]

The players aren't good enough to win the league - agreed
Add a top class striker - agreed.

Therefore wouldn't you like a manager who sees the need to have both of the above in place during a decade of mediocricy.

If Rodgers played Sturridge or Sterling in CM, if Maureen played Hazard in CM or Pelegrini played Navaz or Nasri CM - they would also give the ball away in dangerous positions. Our problem is that those managers use players to their strengths. Ox does not posses the greatest footballing brain nor the best passing ability. He has pace, can score goals & will scare defences backwards. That is where he should be used but unfortunately Wumger has made his mind up & we all know what happens after that.

Now? Yes, probably, as I'm not so sure Wenger has what it takes, purely based on his stubborn football ideals.

But this "decade of mediocrity" shit has to stop. We all agree we have made mistakes, but no other club/manager has had to steer a side through the upgrade we have had, whilst maintaining a top four position.

Seriously, I get the lack of attention to detail on the football pitch sometimes, but people forget, that without Wenger, we'd be mid-table or worse by now. Seriously.

When he does eventually go, his legacy will be immense for this club.

[Özim]

We always hear this top 4 thing, you'd think top 4 was a major trophy or something, it's almost like fans have been brainwashed by the club into thinking it really is something major you can't live without.

Pre Wenger there was no such thing as top 4, this has come in due to the CL and let's be honest that's a joke isn't it? I don't really get the appeal of top 4, sure we get into the CL, so what is it really enjoyable getting knocked out in the last 16 every season, really?

Why should 4 teams from one league get into Europe's premier competition, there's only one reason, money. The top clubs have conspired between themselves to make sure they can all get a big slice of the cake, that's all it is.

If you're interested in money they yes top 4 is great, otherwise it's kinda pointless, especially for us who never really give it a good go at winning the CL. As for signing top players, we've been in the CL for years but how many have we really signed, as has been mentioned there are plenty of players for everyone it's a case of finding them, top 4 is only really worth something if you're willing to compete for the major trophies, if not you may as well come 7th and save your efforts for the league and actually earn you're right to be in the CL.

I would love nothing more than UEFA taking away CL places for the 3rd and 4th placed teams, it will never happen of course but if it did all this talk of top 4 would disappear and you'd actually have to have a genuine shot at the title to get in.

[Dein-machine]

Now? Yes, probably, as I'm not so sure Wenger has what it takes, purely based on his stubborn football ideals.

But this "decade of mediocrity" shit has to stop. We all agree we have made mistakes, but no other club/manager has had to steer a side through the upgrade we have had, whilst maintaining a top four position.

Seriously, I get the lack of attention to detail on the football pitch sometimes, but people forget, that without Wenger, we'd be mid-table or worse by now. Seriously.



When he does eventually go, his legacy will be immense for this club.

Why would we be mid table without Wenger. This is the bit I don't understand. When Everton lost Moyes their was fearing the worst because he had made them a regular top 7 team with limited funds. A younger manager comes in & in his 1st season looks like getting them a champions league place - at OUR expense with our wonderful manager of many years. Why would a new manager, even someone like Martinez, have meant Arsenal being worse off. If he can get Everton to 4th or 5th with limited funds, where would we be if he had taken over a few years ago with a far better transfer budget. What is it that Wenger's does as a manager that some of you think is unique or unobtainable by anyone else. The answer is nothing - our style of play has become too predictable, our transfer policy too predictable, our failure against big teams too predictable, our lack of squad depth & the affect of prolonged injuries too predictable.

[Özim]

but people forget, that without Wenger, we'd be mid-table or worse by now. Seriously.

That's just pure speculation, we weren't even mid table when he arrived, we'd come 4th in the league, even before that we were winning trophies and winning titles. I don't see why we should have been mid table.

Our biggest mistake was keeping Wenger so long IMO, in doing so it makes it more difficult for any new manager as things have been run his way for so long that any change will obviously be harder than it should be.

[Niall_Quinn]

That's just pure speculation, we weren't even mid table when he arrived, we'd come 4th in the league, even before that we were winning trophies and winning titles. I don't see why we should have been mid table.

Our biggest mistake was keeping Wenger so long IMO, in doing so it makes it more difficult for any new manager as things have been run his way for so long that any change will obviously be harder than it should be.

The new manager would be playing with pennies in a league of billionaires were it not for Wenger. You excel in looking at the little picture.

[Dein-machine]

That's just pure speculation, we weren't even mid table when he arrived, we'd come 4th in the league, even before that we were winning trophies and winning titles. I don't see why we should have been mid table.

Our biggest mistake was keeping Wenger so long IMO, in doing so it makes it more difficult for any new manager as things have been run his way for so long that any change will obviously be harder than it should be.

Totally agree - therefore with at least 5 quality players to buy in the summer surely this should be done under a new manger who will want to mould a team to his way of thinking. If Wenger is only going to be around for a few years it seems pointless to give him money to spend & strengthen when he's not actually very good at it. I don't care if we call it rebuilding & it takes another year or two to have a P.L winning squad but it needs to be building for the future with a view to modern football - Wenger cannot be part of that.

[Özim]

The new manager would be playing with pennies in a league of billionaires were it not for Wenger. You excel in looking at the little picture.

I don't think so, he didn't build the stadium or put his own money in, who's to say we wouldn't have built a stadium anyway, the evidence suggest we would (or have moved to somewhere more lucrative), he seems to get the credit for everything round here and the blame for nothing.

We were a big club before he arrived, credit where credit's due he did a great job in the 1st half of his time with us, a really great job, but he got plenty of credit for that a huge salary and a job for life it seems.

I'm not looking at the little picture, I just reject the notion this club was nothing prior to Wenger and would be nothing without him, he seems to get all the credit whilst it for all the others to take the blame.

[Dein-machine]

The new manager would be playing with pennies in a league of billionaires were it not for Wenger. You excel in looking at the little picture.

Here we go again - the Billionaires excuse. Maybe we can find a manager like Rodgers or Martinez who can play with pennies & compete with these horrible billionaire people. The problem is NQ, in a few years time the EPL will be a Billionaires plaything & there is nothing we can do about it. I for one will swap my season ticket & go & watch Leatherhead ( my local non-league team ) as I agree with you that the enjoyment will not be the same but it may be a case of having to join the party.

[Özim]

Totally agree - therefore with at least 5 quality players to buy in the summer surely this should be done under a new manger who will want to mould a team to his way of thinking. If Wenger is only going to be around for a few years it seems pointless to give him money to spend & strengthen when he's not actually very good at it. I don't care if we call it rebuilding & it takes another year or two to have a P.L winning squad but it needs to be building for the future with a view to modern football - Wenger cannot be part of that.

I tend to agree, he might buy some good players but most importantly he doesn't buy the right players for the team and his tactics and the style of play he has chosen to implement just don't work if you want to be successful.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think so, he didn't build the stadium or put his own money in, who's to say we wouldn't have built a stadium anyway, the evidence suggest we would (or have moved to somewhere more lucrative), he seems to get the credit for everything round here and the blame for nothing.

We were a big club before he arrived, credit where credit's due he did a great job in the 1st half of his time with us, a really great job, but he got plenty of credit for that a huge salary and a job for life it seems.

I'm not looking at the little picture, I just reject the notion this club was nothing prior to Wenger and would be nothing without him, he seems to get all the credit whilst it for all the others to take the blame.

Nobody said the club was nothing before Wenger arrived. I said he stepped it up several levels. Is that genuinely debatable? I don't think so.

[Özim]

Nobody said the club was nothing before Wenger arrived. I said he stepped it up several levels. Is that genuinely debatable? I don't think so.

It's stepped up, not on the field but financially, but he's not the sole reason, the board are the ones that took the risks and implemented the stadium move.

[Letters]

We weren't even filling Highbury during the boring boring Arsenal days, why would we have needed a new stadium before Wenger took us to a new level?

[Özim]

Wenger won some trophies, this always fills stadiums up, but you can't possibly say another manager wouldn't have done the same, we were linked with Cruyff at one point pretty sure he would have delivered, we weren't all that bad when he took over either, we came 4th under Rioch and the football was quite good (we also signed players like Bergkamp who will fill stadiums).

[Niall_Quinn]

It's stepped up, not on the field but financially, but he's not the sole reason, the board are the ones that took the risks and implemented the stadium move.

Again, nobody said he was the sole reason. He's the major reason. The revenues from CL football plus a tight control on the net transfers and of course ensuring we didn't slide into obscurity while everything was unfolding. Took a certain type to do that job, sort of a reverse Redknapp.

[Letters]

No, you're right. It's possible that another manager would have also built the best Arsenal side (one of the best PL sides) I've ever seen.
Not very likely though.

[Özim]

Again, nobody said he was the sole reason. He's the major reason. The revenues from CL football plus a tight control on the net transfers and of course ensuring we didn't slide into obscurity while everything was unfolding. Took a certain type to do that job, sort of a reverse Redknapp.

He's a reason, I'd suggest the board are the major reason however, they employed the manager, backed him and put themselves on the line by borrowing huge amounts, without them there would be no stadium, Wenger or not Wenger. You could have done it without Wenger if another manager had come in and been successful (noone can say whether they would or wouldn't have been).

[Özim]

No, you're right. It's possible that another manager would have also built the best Arsenal side (one of the best PL sides) I've ever seen.
Not very likely though.

Perhaps, depends on the manager, if we'd signed Cruyff I'd say there would have been a good chance, his teams played great football and he had a proven track record of success.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger won some trophies, this always fills stadiums up, but you can't possibly say another manager wouldn't have done the same, we were linked with Cruyff at one point pretty sure he would have delivered, we weren't all that bad when he took over either, we came 4th under Rioch and the football was quite good (we also signed players like Bergkamp who will fill stadiums).

There's what COULD have been done and what was ACTUALLY delivered. Certainly there could have been some other guy who could have done any number of great things. Wenger actually did it. In a hunt for evidence to find another manager who could have done the same I'm struggling to come up with a name. Is there any example? We've had the chavs and gypos dumping barrows of cash and sacking their manager every 15 mins. Liverpool who haven't even embarked on their stadium project yet. The spuds who are looking for handouts. Everton, no, Newcastle, no, Utd I suppose. They found a way to significantly upgrade their stadium and stay at the top. Ferguson is the example. Ferguson probably could have done what Wenger has done. Could we have got him though?

[Niall_Quinn]

He's a reason, I'd suggest the board are the major reason however, they employed the manager, backed him and put themselves on the line by borrowing huge amounts, without them there would be no stadium, Wenger or not Wenger. You could have done it without Wenger if another manager had come in and been successful (noone can say whether they would or wouldn't have been).

You mean the same board that Wenger controls?

[Özim]

There's what COULD have been done and what was ACTUALLY delivered. Certainly there could have been some other guy who could have done any number of great things. Wenger actually did it. In a hunt for evidence to find another manager who could have done the same I'm struggling to come up with a name. Is there any example? We've had the chavs and gypos dumping barrows of cash and sacking their manager every 15 mins. Liverpool who haven't even embarked on their stadium project yet. The spuds who are looking for handouts. Everton, no, Newcastle, no, Utd I suppose. They found a way to significantly upgrade their stadium and stay at the top. Ferguson is the example. Ferguson probably could have done what Wenger has done. Could we have got him though?

No other manager has been asked to do what Wenger does every season, just get 4th essentially, with the comfort of being able to do as he wishes pretty much. You can't compare other managers with him as by the time they arrived the club was already setup the way he wanted it, no other manager has had that luxury other than Ferguson and he outperformed Wenger.

[Özim]

You mean the same board that Wenger controls?

Noone said Wenger controls the board, people have said he gets an easy ride from them and they never question anything he does, he seems to be under less pressure to deliver success than his counterparts.

[Dein-machine]

There's what COULD have been done and what was ACTUALLY delivered. Certainly there could have been some other guy who could have done any number of great things. Wenger actually did it. In a hunt for evidence to find another manager who could have done the same I'm struggling to come up with a name. Is there any example? We've had the chavs and gypos dumping barrows of cash and sacking their manager every 15 mins. Liverpool who haven't even embarked on their stadium project yet. The spuds who are looking for handouts. Everton, no, Newcastle, no, Utd I suppose. They found a way to significantly upgrade their stadium and stay at the top. Ferguson is the example. Ferguson probably could have done what Wenger has done. Could we have got him though?

Agreed - Ferguson could have done what Wenger has done but also continued to win titles & cups. He wouldn't have allowed a stadium rebuild to affect Utd's ability to compete or used it as the excuse.

[LDG]

Agreed - Ferguson could have done what Wenger has done but also continued to win titles & cups. He wouldn't have allowed a stadium rebuild to affect Utd's ability to compete or used it as the excuse.

We'll never know.

And if he could, then aren't we talking about the greatest manager of all time?

[Dein-machine]

We'll never know.

And if he could, then aren't we talking about the greatest manager of all time?

Yes we are & also someone who knew when it was time to quit

[LDG]

Yes we are & also someone who knew when it was time to quit

Oh, I think Wenger knows when it's time to quit.

In fact, I think he'll walk if we don't win the cup.

I find the two year thing very interesting though, as that tells me we've lined up the replacement already.

[Niall_Quinn]

No other manager has been asked to do what Wenger does every season, just get 4th essentially, with the comfort of being able to do as he wishes pretty much. You can't compare other managers with him as by the time they arrived the club was already setup the way he wanted it, no other manager has had that luxury other than Ferguson and he outperformed Wenger.

I suppose if you really believe Wenger settles for 4th place in return for a life of comfort then nothing will bridge the gap between your position and mine. I wasn't comparing other managers to him, you were. You said others could have done the job. Now you say no, because the same conditions haven't existed elsewhere. The argument moves to new ground every time your original points are countered.

[Niall_Quinn]

Noone said Wenger controls the board, people have said he gets an easy ride from them and they never question anything he does, he seems to be under less pressure to deliver success than his counterparts.

We had huge debates about the role of employers and employees. The consensus among a certain group was the board fawned at Wenger's feet and he was some sort of miser who forbade them to spend the huge treasure piles we had stashed away. Fair enough if you can't recall all the posts, but they exist. Now it has come time to trash Wenger's record it is useful to place the board back in charge and credit them exclusively.

[Niall_Quinn]

Agreed - Ferguson could have done what Wenger has done but also continued to win titles & cups. He wouldn't have allowed a stadium rebuild to affect Utd's ability to compete or used it as the excuse.

No £30mill splash outs for Ferdinand and Rooney remember. Or punts on players like Veron. Everything would have to be constrained to hits like Cantona. I'm not so sure he'd have had the same haul of trophies myself.

[Özim]

I suppose if you really believe Wenger settles for 4th place in return for a life of comfort then nothing will bridge the gap between your position and mine. I wasn't comparing other managers to him, you were. You said others could have done the job. Now you say no, because the same conditions haven't existed elsewhere. The argument moves to new ground every time your original points are countered.

I didn't say others couldn't do the job, I said others haven't had the same criteria or situation so you can judge whether they could or couldn't based on what they have done at other clubs.

Yes I believe he settles for 4th place, he seems perfectly content with 4th place every season, winning whilst great isn't that important to him, wasn't it Cesc who alluded to this in an interview as well?

[Özim]

We had huge debates about the role of employers and employees. The consensus among a certain group was the board fawned at Wenger's feet and he was some sort of miser who forbade them to spend the huge treasure piles we had stashed away. Fair enough if you can't recall all the posts, but they exist. Now it has come time to trash Wenger's record it is useful to place the board back in charge and credit them exclusively.

I never liked the board, they basically made money whilst being happy to watch us get 4th, but IMO they are the main reason for the stadium they put themselves on the line after all, yes it was all with the aim of making money but they still did it, Wenger had nothing to lose other than his big salary if it didn't work out, he didn't personally financially invest in it. If it didn't work out he could have just found another job as most managers do.

Wenger no doubt wanted a bigger stadium but to say he was the most important factor is nonsense, he didn't take on the debt or the risk.

[Marc Overmars]

I think we need to stop looking back and muddying the waters. We should all be assessing whether he can take us forward from this point on. Here we are yet again needing to secure 4th and this time it's even more painstaking because we were competing for the title 5 games ago. Just how much progression has been made exactly? Start badly, finish well or start well, finish badly, is there a difference? Ultimately it just shows our limitations.

Do you enjoy the football we play anymore? It's not a patch on sides of the past. No I'm not silly enough to compare us to the Invincibles, I mean recent past. Where has all the creativity gone? Why are we so negative? Why did we settle for a hit and miss striker to lead the line with no viable alternatives? Why did we do nothing in January?

I've seen enough now personally. Every year is the same and we end up talking about the same things. Wenger has done wonders for us but its time to look forward, have you honestly seen signs that suggest he is the man to give us the best chance of success? No one is going to come in and change us overnight, but aren't you all bored now of this?

[Özim]

I think we need to stop looking back and muddying the waters. We should all be assessing whether he can take us forward from this point on. Here we are yet again needing to secure 4th and this time it's even more painstaking because we were competing for the title 5 games ago. Just how much progression has been made exactly? Start badly, finish well or start well, finish badly, is there a difference? Ultimately it just shows our limitations.

Do you enjoy the football we play anymore? It's not a patch on sides of the past. No I'm not silly enough to compare us to the Invincibles, I mean recent past. Where has all the creativity gone? Why are we so negative? Why did we settle for a hit and miss striker to lead the line with no viable alternatives? Why did we do nothing in January?

I've seen enough now personally. Every year is the same and we end up talking about the same things. Wenger has done wonders for us but its time to look forward, have you honestly seen signs that suggest he is the man to give us the best chance of success? No one is goin to come in and change us overnight, but aren't you all bored now of this?

Pretty much agree with this, I'm definitely bored of it, the outcome, the football, the way things pan out, I've had enough. I don't believe in him and I don't really understand why anyone would to be honest.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

I think we need to stop looking back and muddying the waters. We should all be assessing whether he can take us forward from this point on. Here we are yet again needing to secure 4th and this time it's even more painstaking because we were competing for the title 5 games ago. Just how much progression has been made exactly? Start badly, finish well or start well, finish badly, is there a difference? Ultimately it just shows our limitations.

Do you enjoy the football we play anymore? It's not a patch on sides of the past. No I'm not silly enough to compare us to the Invincibles, I mean recent past. Where has all the creativity gone? Why are we so negative? Why did we settle for a hit and miss striker to lead the line with no viable alternatives? Why did we do nothing in January?

I've seen enough now personally. Every year is the same and we end up talking about the same things. Wenger has done wonders for us but its time to look forward, have you honestly seen signs that suggest he is the man to give us the best chance of success? No one is going to come in and change us overnight, but aren't you all bored now of this?

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

I think we need to stop looking back and muddying the waters. We should all be assessing whether he can take us forward from this point on. Here we are yet again needing to secure 4th and this time it's even more painstaking because we were competing for the title 5 games ago. Just how much progression has been made exactly? Start badly, finish well or start well, finish badly, is there a difference? Ultimately it just shows our limitations.

Do you enjoy the football we play anymore? It's not a patch on sides of the past. No I'm not silly enough to compare us to the Invincibles, I mean recent past. Where has all the creativity gone? Why are we so negative? Why did we settle for a hit and miss striker to lead the line with no viable alternatives? Why did we do nothing in January?

I've seen enough now personally. Every year is the same and we end up talking about the same things. Wenger has done wonders for us but its time to look forward, have you honestly seen signs that suggest he is the man to give us the best chance of success? No one is going to come in and change us overnight, but aren't you all bored now of this?

A coherent argument expressing valid complaints. Presented without a knife being stuck in the manager's ribs. It looks like things may have already been decided behind the scenes. Wenger will stay for two more years and then move up or out. That's what it appears based on recent events. That could change dramatically if we don't win the cup. Personally I don't think the cup is a any real measure, it won't put the doubters' minds at rest and neither does it have much of an impact on what has to happen next, which is big signings in key areas. That's what will really move us on and up. The degradation of quality in the squad has been reflected on the pitch. Supposedly we now have the funds to reverse this trend. The real risk is that Wenger will not maximise the next transfer window. It's a shame the World Cup sits smack in the middle of it but nevertheless everyone at the club needs to get a result in the summer and bring in the necessary players. The money excuse is gone. Failure to perform this summer can't be pinned on lack of available funds. The funds are there and we all know it.

[Letters]

Yes I believe he settles for 4th place, he seems perfectly content with 4th place every season
Oh cool! We can make up any old shit now, can we?

You just need to take one look at him when things are going well to see he's not 'perfectly content'.

[Maestro]

every single thread on here has descended into a wenger in/out, pro/anti and associated fuckery

is anyone still modding on here :sulk:

[Ollie the Optimist]

this whole Arsene is happy with 4th is utter bollocks. Take a look at how he was during the first few months of the season and how he is now and then say he is happy with fourth.

During the first half of the season, he looked younger, refreshed and had that old smile back, we all noticed it, now look at him, he looks older, gets more annoyed at mistakes as the title slips away. He's never been happy with fourth, he's never been happy when he isn't winning either. He is a winner, just look at what he won with us, you don't win a league unbeaten then become happy with 4th. Its just bollocks

[Özim]

Oh cool! We can make up any old shit now, can we?

You just need to take one look at him when things are going well to see he's not 'perfectly content'.

Yeah I look at him, he jumps up and down and rants a bit, then he realises that was pointless and goes back to doing what he always does, nothing ever changes so I just look at his rantings on the touchline as failry pointless. I'm not making sh*t up, just pointing out a man who has not won a thing in 8 years and continues to praise 4th place doesn't seem too bothered about the fact his team have failed to win, everytime they collapse he still somehow manages to find positive things to say about them.

He's happy with 4th, if he wasn't he wouldn't be praising the team every f*cking season for getting 4th and would do more than he does to win stuff, is there any other top manager in the history in the game who has revelled in what is in terms of winning failure for so long and been content with it?

When a manager does what he does but refuses to address the issues and do the necessary, he's either incompetent or content with what he's doing.

[Özim]

this whole Arsene is happy with 4th is utter bollocks. Take a look at how he was during the first few months of the season and how he is now and then say he is happy with fourth.

During the first half of the season, he looked younger, refreshed and had that old smile back, we all noticed it, now look at him, he looks older, gets more annoyed at mistakes as the title slips away. He's never been happy with fourth, he's never been happy when he isn't winning either. He is a winner, just look at what he won with us, you don't win a league unbeaten then become happy with 4th. Its just bollocks

Yeah I've looked the problem is he really never does anything about it in reality, that means as above he's either content with coming 4th or just incompetent and unable to fix the issues.

Was it Cesc that said at Arsenal winning was great but if we got 4th if was seen as success? People say Wenger's not happy about not winning, then I ask why he doesn't address the issues with the team/squad and why he's been able to go 8+ years without so much as a tin pot trophy and still been pleased with his teams and his performance?

Name me one other manager who has done this and can be considered top class?

[selassie]

this whole Arsene is happy with 4th is utter bollocks. Take a look at how he was during the first few months of the season and how he is now and then say he is happy with fourth.

During the first half of the season, he looked younger, refreshed and had that old smile back, we all noticed it, now look at him, he looks older, gets more annoyed at mistakes as the title slips away. He's never been happy with fourth, he's never been happy when he isn't winning either. He is a winner, just look at what he won with us, you don't win a league unbeaten then become happy with 4th. Its just bollocks

For someone who is so desperate to win he certainly isn't doing enough with the resources he has to hand.

He went into the season pretty much without a senior striker, is this the behaviour of a manager who is desperate to win?

IMO, I don't think it's a case of whether or not he wants to win, more a case of him wanting to win "his way". It's all very idealistic and self-fulfilling IMO and he places far too much of an emphasis on his own desires ahead of the teams desires.

Of course this is simply my opinion and based on my observation of his management style.

[Letters]

every single thread on here has descended into a wenger in/out, pro/anti and associated fuckery

is anyone still modding on here :sulk:

I don't believe the job of modding a forum is to guide discussions and police what people can and can't talk about unless people are being abusive to each other.

:shrug:

[Dein-machine]

I don't believe the job of modding a forum is to guide discussions and police what people can and can't talk about unless people are being abusive to each other.

:shrug:

Letters, what's happened to GayPete?

[Letters]

I'm not making sh*t up

Yes you are:


doesn't seem too bothered about the fact his team have failed to win

That's bullshit and you know it. You're just WUMming. You must be, you can't possibly believe that.

[Letters]

Letters, what's happened to GayPete?

Er. I think he's Sterling Archer now?

[saintnickle]

::gp:
For someone who is so desperate to win he certainly isn't doing enough with the resources he has to hand.

He went into the season pretty much without a senior striker, is this the behaviour of a manager who is desperate to win?

IMO, I don't think it's a case of whether or not he wants to win, more a case of him wanting to win "his way". It's all very idealistic and self-fulfilling IMO and he places far too much of an emphasis on his own desires ahead of the teams desires.

Of course this is simply my opinion and based on my observation of his management style.

Good Post.Surely if he really wanted to win the league so badly he would of strengthened in january especially with the injuries we had.

[Özim]

Yes you are:



That's bullshit and you know it. You're just WUMming. You must be, you can't possibly believe that.

Like I said I do, he might want to win but to me it's clear he's not too unhappy not winning or else he would be far more proactive like many other managers and wouldn't go on about top 4 like he does.

Why else would someone fail to strenghten adequately, stick with the same players and praise 4th so much after 8 years of nothing. It's the lack of real changes that gets me and his excuses, a manager that isn't happy with not winning doesn't make excuses, he does something about it.

[Power n Glory]

Yes you are:



That's bullshit and you know it. You're just WUMming. You must be, you can't possibly believe that.

See Selassie’s post. Almost a decade without winning a trophy and I don’t know how it hasn’t eaten him alive.

[Letters]

See Selassie’s post. Almost a decade without winning a trophy and I don’t know how it hasn’t eaten him alive.

David Dein gave a good interview ahead of Wenger's ill-fated 1000th game. He said they always go out for dinner after home games unless we've lost because then Wenger's no company at all. It clearly bothers him. Whether he's able to do anything about it is a different matter.
There's clearly been some financial restrictions on him although I also believe some have been self-inflicted too. There seems to have been a longer term plan and you look at his net spend over his whole time with us it's remarkable how he's kept us up there.
He should, of course, have won some trophies in the last 9 years too and I see the FA Cup this year as his last chance to deliver.

You can accuse him of many things but not being bothered isn't one of them, there's a physical change in him when things aren't going well, it clearly affects him deeply.

[Heisenberg]

Fergie said in his book that Arsene struggled to accept that his sides playing perfect football could lose, and that intensified their feud. Now, that might be Fergie trying to stir the pot but it doesn't contradict other impressions I've got about him, ie. being a "bad" loser, if you want to call it that. You might very well think that he isn't capable of delivering trophies or success because his philosophy is outdated, or his tactics are naive - you might very well think that. But I do not think for a moment that Arsene has become disinterested and complacent.

[Globalgunner]

David Dein gave a good interview ahead of Wenger's ill-fated 1000th game. He said they always go out for dinner after home games unless we've lost because then Wenger's no company at all. It clearly bothers him. Whether he's able to do anything about it is a different matter.
There's clearly been some financial restrictions on him although I also believe some have been self-inflicted too. There seems to have been a longer term plan and you look at his net spend over his whole time with us it's remarkable how he's kept us up there.
He should, of course, have won some trophies in the last 9 years too and I see the FA Cup this year as his last chance to deliver. You can accuse him of many things but not being bothered isn't one of them, there's a physical change in him when things aren't going well, it clearly affects him deeply.

Please stop trying to distort the truth. What is net spend. Wenger has had plenty to spend and no one can believe that a mortgage of 24m per year has resticted us frtom spending when at the same time we have an annual wage bill of over 130m and the manager himself is paid over 7m. The net spend is an irrelevant figure because it is distorted by the massive payouts we have got from selling stars like Le sulk, Overmars, Henry, Fabregas et al. We have plenty of money, CVertainly not as much as the erstwhile top 3 but more than any of the other 16 teams,

What is the putrpose of a sporting enterprise. Is it not to fulfil its fans expectations or to horde money like some character from the Merchant of Venice. We are sitting on 120m, more than any other sporting franchise in the world perhaps, Instead of maximising our potential on the pitch we shore up money while pretending to be broke. Wenger doesnt spend because it strokes his ego more to be known as the economic miracle worker than the all conquering manager. He knows he cant win the big titles so he has created one for himself. The big players he sold...All the ones who left aftert 2005 abandoned him because his method was never going to win them titles....They all say it even Flamini, who came back after success at Milan.

So he is upset when he loses..Throws a water bottle about!....So do something about it. Gird yourself with the best tools you can find to win and let others worry about the bank balance.

[Dein-machine]

Please stop trying to distort the truth. What is net spend. Wenger has had plenty to spend and no one can believe that a mortgage of 24m per year has resticted us frtom spending when at the same time we have an annual wage bill of over 130m and the manager himself is paid over 7m. The net spend is an irrelevant figure because it is distorted by the massive payouts we have got from selling stars like Le sulk, Overmars, Henry, Fabregas et al. We have plenty of money, CVertainly not as much as the erstwhile top 3 but more than any of the other 16 teams,

What is the putrpose of a sporting enterprise. Is it not to fulfil its fans expectations or to horde money like some character from the Merchant of Venice. We are sitting on 120m, more than any other sporting franchise in the world perhaps, Instead of maximising our potential on the pitch we shore up money while pretending to be broke. Wenger doesnt spend because it strokes his ego more to be known as the economic miracle worker than the all conquering manager. He knows he cant win the big titles so he has created one for himself. The big players he sold...All the ones who left aftert 2005 abandoned him because his method was never going to win them titles....They all say it even Flamini, who came back after success at Milan.

So he is upset when he loses..Throws a water bottle about!....So do something about it. Gird yourself with the best tools you can find to win and let others worry about the bank balance.

:gp: - this 100%

[Power n Glory]

David Dein gave a good interview ahead of Wenger's ill-fated 1000th game. He said they always go out for dinner after home games unless we've lost because then Wenger's no company at all. It clearly bothers him. Whether he's able to do anything about it is a different matter.
There's clearly been some financial restrictions on him although I also believe some have been self-inflicted too. There seems to have been a longer term plan and you look at his net spend over his whole time with us it's remarkable how he's kept us up there.
He should, of course, have won some trophies in the last 9 years too and I see the FA Cup this year as his last chance to deliver.

You can accuse him of many things but not being bothered isn't one of them, there's a physical change in him when things aren't going well, it clearly affects him deeply.

That’s in relation to losing a game. That’s not the same as looking back on the season and being deeply disappointed with our position. How many times has he defended our CL qualification record? You do it yourself and constantly remind everyone we’ve had financial restrictions because of the stadium. Even though it’s true, when he paints us as being handicapped and the underdog, it sort of justifies the team’s performance. It’s similar to what Jose and Roger’s were doing when playing down their title hopes.

[Power n Glory]

Please stop trying to distort the truth. What is net spend. Wenger has had plenty to spend and no one can believe that a mortgage of 24m per year has resticted us frtom spending when at the same time we have an annual wage bill of over 130m and the manager himself is paid over 7m. The net spend is an irrelevant figure because it is distorted by the massive payouts we have got from selling stars like Le sulk, Overmars, Henry, Fabregas et al. We have plenty of money, CVertainly not as much as the erstwhile top 3 but more than any of the other 16 teams,

What is the putrpose of a sporting enterprise. Is it not to fulfil its fans expectations or to horde money like some character from the Merchant of Venice. We are sitting on 120m, more than any other sporting franchise in the world perhaps, Instead of maximising our potential on the pitch we shore up money while pretending to be broke. Wenger doesnt spend because it strokes his ego more to be known as the economic miracle worker than the all conquering manager. He knows he cant win the big titles so he has created one for himself. The big players he sold...All the ones who left aftert 2005 abandoned him because his method was never going to win them titles....They all say it even Flamini, who came back after success at Milan.

So he is upset when he loses..Throws a water bottle about!....So do something about it. Gird yourself with the best tools you can find to win and let others worry about the bank balance.

:gp: yes!

[Letters]

How am I doing that?

Net spend cannot be distorted, it is what it is :shrug:

We do have plenty of money compared with many clubs but there is no doubt that the stadium move and poor financial deals have affected us. I'm not just making this up, in the aforementioned interview with Dein he says how we had to "beg, steal and borrow" to meet wage demands.

[Globalgunner]

Net spend does not reflect our spending power. Most of what we have bought in the last 8 years has either been rubbish or we turned formerly good players, coveted all over Europe into turds. In the same time we have sold Ade, Nasri, Fabregas RVP, all for huge amounts, while buying Squillaci, Sylvester, Santos, Gervinho. When I realised than Wenger is infuriatingly ego driven is when he bought Koscielny for 10m while passing up Cahill 6 months earlier in January. By most fair estimations these 2 players are as good as each other. However Cahill was available for about 8m....Wenger offered 6m which Bolton promptly turned down, holding out for 8m. He didnt go for Cahill because every paper in the country suggested him as a solution to our defensive problems. No glory for the manager in that purchase, then.

the difference is that Cahill was keen to come was PL ready and needed no acclimatisation. Instead Koscielny came, had a nightmare 1st season and may have singlehandedly cost us the CC. If Wenger had spent the extra 2m, he might have that and the narrative would be 5 years without a trophy, not 9

[Power n Glory]

You do it all the time when writing off our title chances, like the conversation we had earlier in the season. When you keep saying he's done a remarkable job with limited funds, it sets us up as the underdog.

[Dein-machine]

Net spend does not reflect our spending power. Most of what we have bought in the last 8 years has either been rubbish or we turned formerly good players, coveted all over Europe into turds. In the same time we have sold Ade, Nasri, Fabregas RVP, all for huge amounts, while buying Squillaci, Sylvester, Santos, Gervinho. When I realised than Wenger is infuriatingly ego driven is when he bought Koscielny for 10m while passing up Cahill 6 months earlier in January. By most fair estimations these 2 players are as good as each other. However Cahill was available for about 8m....Wenger offered 6m which Bolton promptly turned down, holding out for 8m. He didnt go for Cahill because every paper in the country suggested him as a solution to our defensive problems. No glory for the manager in that purchase, then.

the difference is that Cahill was keen to come was PL ready and needed no acclimatisation. Instead Koscielny came, had a nightmare 1st season and may have singlehandedly cost us the CC. If Wenger had spent the extra 2m, he might have that and the narrative would be 5 years without a trophy, not 9

Agreed - the same again when every pundit,paper,Arsenal/Non-Arsenal fan in the world suggested we needed some pace & goals upfront in the Jan window because apart from the fact Giroud is poo, we had also lost the goal threat of Rambo & Theo - he did nothing, sorry I'm wrong - he bought an old midfielder with a bad back for nothing. The fact that he doesn't do the obvious when everyone else can see it can only be his ego & his "I'll do it my way" attitude. He simply won't be told.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Letters, what's happened to GayPete?

Turned into StraightPete.

[AFC Leveller]

Net spend does not reflect our spending power. Most of what we have bought in the last 8 years has either been rubbish or we turned formerly good players, coveted all over Europe into turds. In the same time we have sold Ade, Nasri, Fabregas RVP, all for huge amounts, while buying Squillaci, Sylvester, Santos, Gervinho. When I realised than Wenger is infuriatingly ego driven is when he bought Koscielny for 10m while passing up Cahill 6 months earlier in January. By most fair estimations these 2 players are as good as each other. However Cahill was available for about 8m....Wenger offered 6m which Bolton promptly turned down, holding out for 8m. He didnt go for Cahill because every paper in the country suggested him as a solution to our defensive problems. No glory for the manager in that purchase, then.

the difference is that Cahill was keen to come was PL ready and needed no acclimatisation. Instead Koscielny came, had a nightmare 1st season and may have singlehandedly cost us the CC. If Wenger had spent the extra 2m, he might have that and the narrative would be 5 years without a trophy, not 9

Wasnt Koscielny bought in 2010 while Cahill was sold to Chelsea in Janury 2012?

[AFC Leveller]

Net spend does not reflect our spending power. Most of what we have bought in the last 8 years has either been rubbish or we turned formerly good players, coveted all over Europe into turds. In the same time we have sold Ade, Nasri, Fabregas RVP, all for huge amounts, while buying Squillaci, Sylvester, Santos, Gervinho. When I realised than Wenger is infuriatingly ego driven is when he bought Koscielny for 10m while passing up Cahill 6 months earlier in January. By most fair estimations these 2 players are as good as each other. However Cahill was available for about 8m....Wenger offered 6m which Bolton promptly turned down, holding out for 8m. He didnt go for Cahill because every paper in the country suggested him as a solution to our defensive problems. No glory for the manager in that purchase, then.

the difference is that Cahill was keen to come was PL ready and needed no acclimatisation. Instead Koscielny came, had a nightmare 1st season and may have singlehandedly cost us the CC. If Wenger had spent the extra 2m, he might have that and the narrative would be 5 years without a trophy, not 9

Koscielny was handed the club's number 6 shirt. Arsenal fans voted Laurent Koscielny as Arsène Wenger’s most effective signing of 2010–11 following an impressive debut campaign

[Letters]

You do it all the time when writing off our title chances, like the conversation we had earlier in the season. When you keep saying he's done a remarkable job with limited funds, it sets us up as the underdog.
I do see as as the underdog compared with City and Chelsea.

[Ollie the Optimist]

with cahill, I'm fairly sure we bid 8 million, the bolton chairman then retweeted a fan on twitter calling Arsene a bellend and then six months later sold him for 8 million. not quite sure what else we could have done.

besides, Koscienly is much better anyway.

[Power n Glory]

I do see as as the underdog compared with City and Chelsea.

Which makes the acceptance of failure easier to bite down on. 9 years and running.

[Zerlathon]

Which makes the acceptance of failure easier to bite down on. 9 years and running.

Nobody is saying that we couldn't have done better with the resources available, but at the same time I wouldn't consider our performance a failure either.

How many other Clubs have had to fund the construction of a brand new stadium? This is also during a time where we have had to contend with the unfortunate trend of sugar daddy ownership pumping disproportionate amounts of money into the market.

Despite all of the above, we have managed to finish the Season in a CL position every year.

Personally, I feel that we have exceeded my initial expectations for this Season. We have been contenders for the Title for the Majority of the Season (even with a slim chance now) and there is a good chance that we shall finally see some silverware in the cabinet for the 1st time in just under a decade. I hope that we will finish on a positive come the end of the Season, and we finally get to witness the new spending power that we now have.

[GP]

with cahill, I'm fairly sure we bid 8 million, the bolton chairman then retweeted a fan on twitter calling Arsene a bellend and then six months later sold him for 8 million. not quite sure what else we could have done.

besides, Koscienly is much better anyway.

:gp:

Twice the player.

[Power n Glory]

Nobody is saying that we couldn't have done better with the resources available, but at the same time I wouldn't consider our performance a failure either.

How many other Clubs have had to fund the construction of a brand new stadium? This is also during a time where we have had to contend with the unfortunate trend of sugar daddy ownership pumping disproportionate amounts of money into the market.

Despite all of the above, we have managed to finish the Season in a CL position every year.

Personally, I feel that we have exceeded my initial expectations for this Season. We have been contenders for the Title for the Majority of the Season (even with a slim chance now) and there is a good chance that we shall finally see some silverware in the cabinet for the 1st time in just under a decade. I hope that we will finish on a positive come the end of the Season, and we finally get to witness the new spending power that we now have.

That’s probably how Wenger defines the last decade and why he’s comfortable with the lack of silverware. It answers Letter’s original question. I’m pretty sure he’s upset when we play badly and lose but I doubt he’s losing sleep over the whole season because he feels satisfied with the overall result.

[Letters]

I doubt he’s losing sleep over the whole season because he feels satisfied with the overall result.
Completely baseless.

[Globalgunner]

with cahill, I'm fairly sure we bid 8 million, the bolton chairman then retweeted a fan on twitter calling Arsene a bellend and then six months later sold him for 8 million. not quite sure what else we could have done.

besides, Koscienly is much better anyway.

You are sure he bid 8m
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/14676338

Use the internet instead of just talking out of any old...... u..know.
If Wenger had bid 8m he would have got him. Yes they might have sold for 8m later, but that`s because the players contract was running down and he could have gone for free in a few months time

[Özim]

Koscielny was handed the club's number 6 shirt. Arsenal fans voted Laurent Koscielny as Arsène Wenger’s most effective signing of 2010–11 following an impressive debut campaign

Thought he was a bit of a calamity in his 1st season to be honest, prone to lapses which caused goals. Also in 2010-2011 we signed Squillaci and Chamakh and we know how bad they were so it wasn't exactly hard to be the "most effective signing" :lol:

[Özim]

Please stop trying to distort the truth. What is net spend. Wenger has had plenty to spend and no one can believe that a mortgage of 24m per year has resticted us frtom spending when at the same time we have an annual wage bill of over 130m and the manager himself is paid over 7m. The net spend is an irrelevant figure because it is distorted by the massive payouts we have got from selling stars like Le sulk, Overmars, Henry, Fabregas et al. We have plenty of money, CVertainly not as much as the erstwhile top 3 but more than any of the other 16 teams,

What is the putrpose of a sporting enterprise. Is it not to fulfil its fans expectations or to horde money like some character from the Merchant of Venice. We are sitting on 120m, more than any other sporting franchise in the world perhaps, Instead of maximising our potential on the pitch we shore up money while pretending to be broke. Wenger doesnt spend because it strokes his ego more to be known as the economic miracle worker than the all conquering manager. He knows he cant win the big titles so he has created one for himself. The big players he sold...All the ones who left aftert 2005 abandoned him because his method was never going to win them titles....They all say it even Flamini, who came back after success at Milan.

So he is upset when he loses..Throws a water bottle about!....So do something about it. Gird yourself with the best tools you can find to win and let others worry about the bank balance.

Totally agree with this, a great post IMO.

[Ollie the Optimist]

You are sure he bid 8m
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/14676338

Use the internet instead of just talking out of any old...... u..know.
If Wenger had bid 8m he would have got him. Yes they might have sold for 8m later, but that`s because the players contract was running down and he could have gone for free in a few months time

Thought it was 8, turns out it was six but then we signed the BFG a month later, so why are we arguing? plus the bolton chairman called Arsene a bell end, you really think he would offer anymore after that? i know i wouldn't

[Özim]

How many other Clubs have had to fund the construction of a brand new stadium? This is also during a time where we have had to contend with the unfortunate trend of sugar daddy ownership pumping disproportionate amounts of money into the market.

Despite all of the above, we have managed to finish the Season in a CL position every year.

The CL placings is a fairly recent thing, there was no 3rd/4th place qualification places in the past and thus getting 3rd or 4th was never considered that desirable. We've managed to manufacture it into some type of trophy somehow where coming 4th is something so special and yet IMO it doesn't give fans that much pleasure and really doesn't compare to the feeling of winning something.

[Özim]

Thought it was 8, turns out it was six but then we signed the BFG a month later, so why are we arguing? plus the bolton chairman called Arsene a bell end, you really think he would offer anymore after that? i know i wouldn't

6 million is peanuts to be honest in today's world, you'd be lucky to have anyone accept that, it's a lowball offer.

[Özim]

Completely baseless.

Not really, it's been almost 9 years since he's won anything, he's not done everything he can to achieve success and has in the past sacrificed opportunities in favour of our chase for 4th place and the CL (something we had no hope of winning).

His constant efforts to hype up 4th place also point to a man who is satified with his efforts getting 4th IMO.

[LDG]

Koscielny is much better. So is the BFG.

[Letters]

The CL placings is a fairly recent thing, there was no 3rd/4th place qualification places in the past and thus getting 3rd or 4th was never considered that desirable. We've managed to manufacture it into some type of trophy somehow where coming 4th is something so special and yet IMO it doesn't give fans that much pleasure and really doesn't compare to the feeling of winning something.
'We' haven't done anything, it's just the way football has gone and if you look at the money other clubs are chucking around to try and get in the top 4 you'll see it's not just us who value it and see how important it is in terms of finance and prestige. I agree it's a bit rubbish but you can't blame Arsenal or Wenger for it.

[Letters]

His constant efforts to hype up 4th place.
:lol:

[Özim]

:lol:

What? He does, he's talked about 4th place even going as far as calling it a trophy in the past, constant is perhaps overdramatic but the point is he values as if it was a piece of silverware, I would suggest this is because it swells the bank balance and confirms he's doing a good job from the owners point of view.

[LDG]

Any quote from Wenger should be taken with a pinch of salt. We all know that, Zimm.

[Özim]

'We' haven't done anything, it's just the way football has gone and if you look at the money other clubs are chucking around to try and get in the top 4 you'll see it's not just us who value it and see how important it is in terms of finance and prestige. I agree it's a bit rubbish but you can't blame Arsenal or Wenger for it.

Whilst we haven't, the club and manager have many times said how great an achievment it was etc etc. I agree from a financial point of view it does have a lot of meaning, prestige perhaps but being knocked at a predictable stage every season is doing nothing for it's credibility IMO, it's this that bothers me about the CL, we don't really even seem to have an outside chance because we're almost too predictable, our game doesn't seem to play the odds (Chelsea a few years back won it when they weren't the best teams, due to some lucky breaks, but their style of play and desire gave them that chance to "get lucky" IMO).

[Özim]

Any quote from Wenger should be taken with a pinch of salt. We all know that, Zimm.

Yes and no, he does talk a lot of rubbish, but there's things he says that are backed up on the pitch and in the transfer market as well.

It's clear he values the CL, if there was no 3rd/4th place CL placings I'm pretty sure his approach would be different. It's not winning something but it's at least on a par for the club.

[LDG]

Yes and no

Depending on which way you want to move the goalposts, presumably.

[Power n Glory]

Completely baseless.


Yes, Letter's....it's baseless. :doh:

http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2014/03/22/4701147/wenger-defends-arsenals-recent-trophy-drought


Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger has defended the club's recent lack of trophies as he prepares for his 1000th match in charge of the Gunners against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge.

The north Londoners have failed to win a trophy since lifting the FA Cup in 2005 but remain in the title hunt this season, just four points behind leaders Chelsea, and have reached the semi-finals of the FA Cup.

However, Wenger says that winning trophies is not everything and believes the club have not been given credit for some of their achievements in recent seasons.

"When you make a decision [to build the Emirates Stadium] you don't say, 'OK, we invest in the stadium but we don't want trophies'," he told the club's official website.

"In 2006 we were in the Champions League final. Nobody speaks about it now but it's still an achievement.

"It's not a trophy but we did it without conceding a goal in the whole campaign and only lost in the last 13 minutes of the Champions League. Can you say you failed that season? I don't think so. On top of that we managed to stay in the top four that season.

"We [also] beat Real Madrid with Zidane and Beckham and all these people but nobody speaks about it. It's like we have done nothing at all. Why? Because at the end of the season you don't parade the trophy."

Arsenal have come close to ending their drought on several occasions, reaching the Champiosn League final in 2005 and the Capital One Cup final in 2011, but Wenger says a team should not just be judged purely on the silverware they collect.

"Had we won the League Cup that season people would have said, 'Ah, they won the League Cup in 2006'. But what is it compared to when you know as a manager... to win the League Cup or reach the Champions League final without losing a game, what is the difference?" he added.

"You have to take a little bit of distance with [the criticism for a lack of trophies] and assess what is difficult and what is a good season. I know that trophies are important. But it's not like if you haven't won a trophy nothing happened in the whole season and it was disastrous.

"You still played good games and bad games and in the season when you won trophies you still played bad games."

[Özim]

Depending on which way you want to move the goalposts, presumably.

No depending on his actions.

[Power n Glory]

Any quote from Wenger should be taken with a pinch of salt. We all know that, Zimm.

Why should it be taken with a pinch of salt when you consider the last 9 years? It’s not as if his words and actions have been completely contradictory.

[fakeyank]

David Dein gave a good interview ahead of Wenger's ill-fated 1000th game. He said they always go out for dinner after home games unless we've lost because then Wenger's no company at all. It clearly bothers him. Whether he's able to do anything about it is a different matter.
There's clearly been some financial restrictions on him although I also believe some have been self-inflicted too. There seems to have been a longer term plan and you look at his net spend over his whole time with us it's remarkable how he's kept us up there.
He should, of course, have won some trophies in the last 9 years too and I see the FA Cup this year as his last chance to deliver.

You can accuse him of many things but not being bothered isn't one of them, there's a physical change in him when things aren't going well, it clearly affects him deeply.

Arsenal losses, especially humiliations, affect a lot of us deeply. I know I hate talking to people afterwards. I think I have aged more watching Arsenal play than because of other stress in my life! :lol:

This doesnt mean that I should be in a job where I am not delivering. For example, there is a guy who works really hard in the office but he is just not good enough. He gets 10/10 on effort but that effort is mostly towards the wrong need. Does it help the office? No.

My sympathy for Wenger and his achievements ran out in 2009. I want to see results now. Not empty promises and effort in the wrong need. Just because he looks like he worked hard doesnt excuse him. I'd rather he work smart, rather than hard.

[LDG]

Why should it be taken with a pinch of salt when you consider the last 9 years? It’s not as if his words and actions have been completely contradictory.

So you're saying you believe everything he says?

Well, we have a saying round here...fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again...

[Power n Glory]

So you're saying you believe everything he says?

Well, we have a saying round here...fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again...

In relation to this discussion, you think he’s bluffing? So 4th isn’t an achievement when considering the stadium move?

This isn’t a discussion about everything Wenger says, LDG.

[Power n Glory]

"You have to take a little bit of distance with [the criticism for a lack of trophies] and assess what is difficult and what is a good season. I know that trophies are important. But it's not like if you haven't won a trophy nothing happened in the whole season and it was disastrous.

"You still played good games and bad games and in the season when you won trophies you still played bad games."

Do we take this with a pinch of salt, LDG?

[LDG]

In relation to this discussion, you think he’s bluffing? So 4th isn’t an achievement when considering the stadium move?

This isn’t a discussion about everything Wenger says, LDG.

In this instance, no. I think he's talking relative sense, and there is merit in his achievements all things considered. But he wouldn't come out and outright say what he really believes, or what some of us believe, because he's a politician in that respect.

I'm sure he thinks 4th is the very minimum that should be expected of a club our size, and that we have failed in a lot of respects to move beyond that. But he won't say that to the media will he. Just like he wouldn't wash the clubs dirty linen in public.

[Letters]

Whilst we haven't, the club and manager have many times said how great an achievment it was etc etc. I agree from a financial point of view it does have a lot of meaning, prestige perhaps but being knocked at a predictable stage every season is doing nothing for it's credibility IMO, it's this that bothers me about the CL, we don't really even seem to have an outside chance because we're almost too predictable, our game doesn't seem to play the odds (Chelsea a few years back won it when they weren't the best teams, due to some lucky breaks, but their style of play and desire gave them that chance to "get lucky" IMO).
To be honest I don't really care if we're in the CL or not. It's exciting if you've not been in there often but year on year it loses its shine, especially when we've no realistic prospect of winning it. That said if we're going to be in Europe I'd rather that than the Europa league and see a million games against nobodies. At least with the CL we see some good teams, I enjoyed the group stage this year.

I believe Wenger sees it as important we're in there as do managers of most clubs who are there or thereabouts. Like I said lots of clubs throw money around trying to get up there because they see it as a way of stepping up a level and for those who are there it's a way of staying up there by getting the extra revenue and the prestige of being in the CL. We haven't made many marquee signings of late, hardly any really, but being in the CL gives us the opportunity to look at a different class of player. There's no way we'd have got Ozil had we not been in there.

I reckon he sees it as the minimum he should be achieving but I don't think for one minute he's happy with not being higher or the lack of trophies. In fact I think it was you who posted a link of him saying that if he didn't deliver trophies he would have failed. Hardly the words of someone who is content to just finish 4th each year and not win any cups. You constantly (##) say he's under no pressure but I do believe he's under pressure to keep us up there and while that's not something you value it is important for the reasons I've outlined and we're not the only club who think so.

I do think he should be under more pressure to deliver trophies too although it should be recognised that past managers were able to let league form slide in order to focus on the cups (in your beloved 92/93 we had a horrible league season, we even flirted with relegation!), that's not an option now. I do see the FA Cup as his last chance to deliver a trophy. If we cock this one up then I don't think we'll ever win anything else under him.

[LDG]

Do we take this with a pinch of salt, LDG?

To a degree, yes.

My previous post relates. He's deflecting critisism away from himself, and more importantly, the club.

[Power n Glory]

In this instance, no. I think he's talking relative sense. But he wouldn't come out and outright say what he really believes, because he's a politician in that respect.

I'm sure he thinks 4th is the very minimum that should be expected of a club our size, and that we have failed in a lot of respects to move beyond that. But he won't say that to the media will he. Just like he wouldn't wash the clubs dirty linen in public.

That's baseless.

It's been a long 9 years and if he was dissatisfied with the results and thought we were failing, I think we'd have seen dramatic changes a while back.

[LDG]

That's baseless.



Don't Letters me, you cheeky cunt :lol:

I'm not spoiling for an argument mate, I'm just saying it how it is. Of course he's a politician in the way he speaks, and you know it.

[Power n Glory]

Don't Letters me, you cheeky cunt :lol:

I'm not spoiling for an argument mate, I'm just saying it how it is. Of course he's a politician in the way he speaks, and you know it.

:lol: Got me!

He can play it coy and politician like, but I don't think that's what's going here. If he truly felt differently to what he's presented in the media, I think he'd have left or demanded a change. Even if we had funds restricted, I at least expect him to get players like Denilson and Almunia out of the team a lot earlier than he actually did. I think he's too patient and philosophical with his outlook. His words and actions correlate on this occasion.

[Letters]

I am here you know <_<

[LDG]

I am here you know <_<

Hello down there!

[LDG]

:lol: Got me!

He can play it coy and politician like, but I don't think that's what's going here. If he truly felt differently to what he's presented in the media, I think he'd have left or demanded a change. Even if we had funds restricted, I at least expect him to get players like Denilson and Almunia out of the team a lot earlier than he actually did. I think he's too patient and philosophical with outlook.


I dunno. This whole thing is such a headfuck when you start reading about it on the web, and analysing every single thing that is said, read opinion after opinion on tactics, boardroom movements, transfers etc etc.

We all know by now that he has his weaknesses. The hammering we got from Chelsea was the last straw for me in a lot of respects, because I know he won't change. I keep sticking by him, as I believe he loves the club, I love what he has done for the club, and I would like nothing more than to see him succeed. But it's heartbreaking and angering at the same time to have the piss ripped out of us again and again.

I fully believe he wants to win. But he's too stubborn to change his ways in order to make that happen. It's quite massachistic if you think about it.

I said "no" to the poll, a) out of respect and b) knowing how difficult he is to replace at this point in time. It's a scary prospect to me.

But the Chelsea hiding taught me that it will just keep happening, as I don't believe in coincidence. So in that respect, he has to go.

I don't for one second think he deserves to be villified and ripped apart by the fans though.

[fakeyank]

I dunno. This whole thing is such a headfuck when you start reading about it on the web, and analysing every single thing that is said, read opinion after opinion on tactics, boardroom movements, transfers etc etc.

We all know by now that he has his weaknesses. The hammering we got from Chelsea was the last straw for me in a lot of respects, because I know he won't change. I keep sticking by him, as I believe he loves the club, I love what he has done for the club, and I would like nothing more than to see him succeed. But it's heartbreaking and angering at the same time to have the piss ripped out of us again and again.

I fully believe he wants to win. But he's too stubborn to change his ways in order to make that happen. It's quite massachistic if you think about it.

I said "no" to the poll, a) out of respect and b) knowing how difficult he is to replace at this point in time. It's a scary prospect to me.

But the Chelsea hiding taught me that it will just keep happening, as I don't believe in coincidence. So in that respect, he has to go.

I don't for one second think he deserves to be villified and ripped apart by the fans though.

:gp:

Question to you about the vilified part though.. I disagree with the abuse to him (despite me being a culprit in my younger days). Do you think that if he continues in charge and if things continue the same way, it will justify him being ripped apart by fans? To put it simply, if you were to put a time frame, after how many more months/years do you think it be considered ok?

From my perspective, he ran out of time in 2009 and while I do not condone the abuse he gets, I understand why he gets it. I can see where a lot of the anger is coming from... IMO, fans have every right to rip him apart, as long as its not personal.

[Power n Glory]

I dunno. This whole thing is such a headfuck when you start reading about it on the web, and analysing every single thing that is said, read opinion after opinion on tactics, boardroom movements, transfers etc etc.

We all know by now that he has his weaknesses. The hammering we got from Chelsea was the last straw for me in a lot of respects, because I know he won't change. I keep sticking by him, as I believe he loves the club, I love what he has done for the club, and I would like nothing more than to see him succeed. But it's heartbreaking and angering at the same time to have the piss ripped out of us again and again.

I fully believe he wants to win. But he's too stubborn to change his ways in order to make that happen. It's quite massachistic if you think about it.

I said "no" to the poll, a) out of respect and b) knowing how difficult he is to replace at this point in time. It's a scary prospect to me.

But the Chelsea hiding taught me that it will just keep happening, as I don't believe in coincidence. So in that respect, he has to go.

I don't for one second think he deserves to be villified and ripped apart by the fans though.

He has said, to be a manager you spend a lot of time suffering. He does have SnM ways about him. Throw in his voyeurism....one messed up individual. :lol:

On a serious note, I think Wenger is a man with strong convictions and follows his gut. As Paddy said, his faith is his greatest asset and also his weakness. I'm not trying to throw shots at him when I say this, just trying to get a grip on what's been going on over the last 9 years. I think it's his time to go to and it's not just because of the results. It's the comments that come after and looking deeper into the way he sees football from his quotes, what other players say and then what we see on the pitch. I think his time has passed and what worked before won't work now. I think we'd need a major cash injection for his ways to work now because we need players way better than the competition to dominate again. I don't think that's possible with the other super rich clubs floating around us.

[Letters]

IMO if we were going to change manager it should have been a couple of years ago.
Two big criticisms of Wenger are that he won't spend big and we're not winning trophies any more.
Last year we smashed our transfer record on Ozil and made a big bid for Suarez. The new commercial deals should see us able to continue that level of signing.
We really should win the FA Cup.
If we do then I'm not sure that's the right time to be changing manager with all the upheaval that could bring.

[Globalgunner]

IMO if we were going to change manager it should have been a couple of years ago.
Two big criticisms of Wenger are that he won't spend big and we're not winning trophies any more.
Last year we smashed our transfer record on Ozil and made a big bid for Suarez. The new commercial deals should see us able to continue that level of signing.
We really should win the FA Cup.
If we do then I'm not sure that's the right time to be changing manager with all the upheaval that could bring.

A couple of years ago you wouldn't hear of him leaving...A couple of years from now you still wont want to hear of him leaving. Twenty years from now you'll still want him to stay, Even if we blow this years FA cup you'll find a way to blame the ref, the lousy stadium. Someone spiking their pre game meal. Anything

[Letters]

A couple of years ago you wouldn't hear of him leaving...
Nope. I said he should go after we failed to beat Birmingham in the Cup Final a few years back.

What doesn't make sense is sticking to the same opinion on things regardless of new information. I've given my reasons for thinking he deserves a change to build on it if we win the FA Cup. If we mess it up, given the teams left, he should go.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

IMO if we were going to change manager it should have been a couple of years ago.
Two big criticisms of Wenger are that he won't spend big and we're not winning trophies any more.
Last year we smashed our transfer record on Ozil and made a big bid for Suarez. The new commercial deals should see us able to continue that level of signing.
We really should win the FA Cup.
If we do then I'm not sure that's the right time to be changing manager with all the upheaval that could bring.

Yep. Give him a 2 year contract, when that expires one of the top top managers (Ancelotti, Pep or Klopp) are likely to become available.

Handing over the keys to a rookie like Martinez now? Nah.

[Munchies]

Yep. Give him a 2 year contract, when that expires one of the top top managers (Ancelotti, Pep or Klopp) are likely to become available.

Handing over the keys to a rookie like Martinez now? Nah.

Ancelotti could still get sacked this season :lol:

[LDG]

Ancellotti isn't the right person for this club.

Gaurdiola, maybe. But only if we're spending money. He's had Barca and Bayern, who have stacks of cash.

If there is still some limits on resource, we need someone very very good, able to compete without endless bankrolling.

That rules out quite a few supposedly top managers.

[Özim]

I'd never want Guardiola at this club, I find the football his teams play incredibly boring to watch.

[LDG]

From what I've seen, Klopp would be the ideal manager, but you just never know.

Ferguson though Moyes was a good bet.

People said Spurs were going places with AVB.

People on here said Owen Coyle was better than Wenger.

What is clear, is that we don't need to panic and appoint any old cunt. We have time. We've been patient enough, if it takes two years, I'm up for that. At least the lights will still be on, when Wenget leaves, meaning a good base for someone to take over.

[Letters]

I'd never want Guardiola at this club, I find the football his teams play incredibly boring to watch.
You don't find it thoroughly enjoyable?
#92/93

[Marc Overmars]

From what I've seen, Klopp would be the ideal manager, but you just never know.

Ferguson though Moyes was a good bet.

People said Spurs were going places with AVB.

People on here said Owen Coyle was better than Wenger.

What is clear, is that we don't need to panic and appoint any old cunt. We have time. We've been patient enough, if it takes two years, I'm up for that. At least the lights will still be on, when Wenget leaves, meaning a good base for someone to take over.

Agree with this. While I think it's time we started looking beyond Wenger, I'm not clamouring for him to be gone immediately. It's going to be a monumental decision to replace him so we need to get it right. If it takes another 2 years then so be it, I think Gooners have been an incredibly patient and tolerant bunch, so waiting a little while longer makes no difference to me personally.

Though I don't think we'll have any excuses left if we don't win the cup or even worse fail to finish 4th.

[Power n Glory]

I have nothing against Ancelotti. We'd be in safe hands.

We have to take our time and pick the correct manager but I don't want us to miss out on a top candidate. I think Manure will be sniffing around for someone solid pretty soon.

[selassie]

From what I've seen, Klopp would be the ideal manager, but you just never know.

Ferguson though Moyes was a good bet.

People said Spurs were going places with AVB.

People on here said Owen Coyle was better than Wenger.

What is clear, is that we don't need to panic and appoint any old cunt. We have time. We've been patient enough, if it takes two years, I'm up for that. At least the lights will still be on, when Wenget leaves, meaning a good base for someone to take over.

Yep, I think Diego Simeone at Atletico would be a good bet too, very similar to Klopp in terms of how he has built up his team with relatively restricted funds.

Atletico play very good football too and are a geniune match for Barca or Real.

I do agree that we need to be smart in the selection process when replacing Wenger.

[Zerlathon]

Though I don't think we'll have any excuses left if we don't win the cup or even worse fail to finish 4th.

If that happened, it is likely that Wenger would decide for himself that he could no longer manage Arsenal (for pretty much the same reason that Guardiola decided to leave Barcelona - i.e. he could no longer motivate the Players).

[Özim]

Yep, I think Diego Simeone at Atletico would be a good bet too, very similar to Klopp in terms of how he has built up his team with relatively restricted funds.

Atletico play very good football too and are a geniune match for Barca or Real.

I do agree that we need to be smart in the selection process when replacing Wenger.

Simeone would be a good choice IMO, I like the way Athletico play and they have a resilience about them which winning teams need.

[I am invisible]

There's a few good, young(ish) coaches around at the moment - Klopp, Simeone, Conte, Garcia, Martinez, etc - some more attainable than others.

Klopp would still be my first choice - can't see his patience lasting too much longer in Germany, with his squad getting picked apart by Bayern every year, and I really think we could steal a march on anyone else who might be looking at him, if we start sounding him out now? But Simeone's not a bad shout either - sounds like Athletico are massively in debt, so he might jump at the chance of moving on while his stock is high, and before his squad is sold out from under him?

Also, if he could bring their striking scout with him, that would be smashing.

[Power n Glory]

Simeone would be a good choice IMO, I like the way Athletico play and they have a resilience about them which winning teams need.

What Simeone is doing in Spain is impressive. He's going toe to toe with two powerhouse clubs and their holding their own. It would be a damn shame if his team gets picked apart next year because of financial problems.

He's won a couple of titles in Argentina, but he's the sort of coach we wouldn't bat an eyelid at two/three years ago.

[Marc Overmars]

He's won a couple of titles in Argentina, but he's the sort of coach we wouldn't bat an eyelid at two/three years ago.

I think the type of coach teams go after these days is different. It's about investing in a personality, a philosophy, not necessarily about who has the most +1's on their CV. No one wants a Hiddink type anymore, someone who'll come in for a flying visit then bugger off if it doesn't work right away. It's about a long term vision.

[LDG]

http://www.charmedcrafttalk.com/forum/images/smilies/PANIK2.gif

[Power n Glory]

I think the type of coach teams go after these days is different. It's about investing in a personality, a philosophy, not necessarily about who has the most +1's on their CV. No one wants a Hiddink type anymore, someone who'll come in for a flying visit then bugger off if it doesn't work right away. It's about a long term vision.

Like David Moyes! :haha:

That's very true. But I think that's more true for the smaller clubs with potential and not so much for the big boys. I also think most coaches would want a long term deal but the big clubs are too trigger happy.

[Marc Overmars]

Moyes. :lol:

I should also say someone with at least a bit of tangible success is needed, rather than a complete nobody.

[Özim]

Moyes is a strange one, I wouldn't have never chosen him to manage such a big club, he's never won a thing as manager and I don't think his achievements with Everton were that amazing, the only thing you can really praise is his loyalty.

We'd be looking for someone more dynamic and someone who is more of a winner.

[Power n Glory]

Moyes. :lol:

I should also say someone with at least a bit of tangible success is needed, rather than a complete nobody.

Completely. I have no idea what Fergie was thinking.

With Simeone, you could at least see he'd won the Europa League and the Copa del Rey. There not the biggest trophies but it's something and within a short space of his appointment. Moyes was with Everton for years and didn't win anything. Over 10 years with that squad and enough time to stamp his own brand of football on that team. Terrible choice for Utd.

I hope we're not as clueless when it comes to our manager appointment. This is where the Board have to get it right. It's a damn shame we don't have any real football guys on our Board to advise on this. This is why I hope they go for someone with a glowing CV because they'll need solid evidence. Gut calls might not be a good thing when it comes to our lot. What do they really know about football?

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Laudrup :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.charmedcrafttalk.com/forum/images/smilies/PANIK2.gif

:gp:

[Dein-machine]

If we are to continue playing our tiki-taka football which is taught futsal stlye with players close to each other in certain area's of the pitch then it would be fair to say that there are very few managers who could coach this better then Wenger. Even if there was the problem is that this type of football needs intelligent players, with quick feet & movement - who are normally the better players in whichever team & will cost money. We've spent the last few years trying to be like Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, with the likes of Wheelchair, Walcott & Giroud. We have to buy quality players to play that style otherwise you end up giving the ball away in dangerous areas, a bit like at Chelsea & for City's goal last weekend.
Klopp plays a high pressing, pass & move game which I think would suit the EPL. Again he would need to fit players to his style but they have installed the best training program in Europe which is used all the way down to the youngest youth teams. Took my lads team their last year to play a few friendlies against their youth teams & they gave our boys an afternoon session, it was unbelievable.
Klopp would be my choice, you can see his passion but will he be a bit overawed with the millions he has to spend - not really his style but maybe he would enjoy being able to buy instead of selling quality players.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Moyes. :lol:

I should also say someone with at least a bit of tangible success is needed, rather than a complete nobody.

Ahem.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJsgJFJCMAA3Qt7.png