Wenger Out ?

[Munchies]

Mandatory thread each year.

:coffee:

Only the fa cup can save this season, and fuck sake if we get City.

[Marc Overmars]

Yes.

[Maestro]

Yes

[selassie]

Yeah I am done with him and wanted him gone a couple of seasons ago. It's not even about money or lack of it anymore, I don't think it has been for a while. Fancy a change now and a new man in charge.

[JonasTC]

Heeellll no... We'll get someone in who'll do even worse than Moyes.

If it had been up to most people in here, Owen Coyle would be in charge of mid-table team Arsenal :d

[Maestro]

Yeah I am done with him and wanted him gone a couple of seasons ago. It's not even about money or lack of it anymore, I don't think it has been for a while. Fancy a change now and a new man in charge.


This

[Munchies]

Heeellll no... We'll get someone in who'll do even worse than Moyes.

If it had been up to most people in here, Owen Coyle would be in charge of mid-table team Arsenal :d

Depends on who is given the job.

Moyes was a fail of an appointment.

Owen Coyle would atleast try to fix the team. Wenger does fuck all. I don't see what he does. Tactically we're toothless in attack, transfer market has been shoddy for a long time. He let us get trounced by Liverpool, and made subs at 60 mins when we were out of it.

[Özim]

Yeah I am done with him and wanted him gone a couple of seasons ago. It's not even about money or lack of it anymore, I don't think it has been for a while. Fancy a change now and a new man in charge.

Yeah me too, tired of seeing the same reptative stuff every season and the same problems in with transfers etc, time for a change.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Heeellll no... We'll get someone in who'll do even worse than Moyes.

If it had been up to most people in here, Owen Coyle would be in charge of mid-table team Arsenal :d

Ridiculous.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I would actually bet that the only reason we've had any sort of defence this season is down to Bould and nothing more.

Wengers tactical cluelessness is starting to rear it's ugly head again, and I'm not even gonna go down the transfer window road.

Seen it all before and Ive had enough.

I bet we are out of all comps by the end of March and face a fight for 4th/5th place again.

Yawn, yawn, yawn.

[Munchies]

I would actually bet that the only reason we've had any sort of defence this season is down to Bould and nothing more.

Wengers tactical cluelessness is starting to rear it's ugly head again, and I'm not even gonna go down the transfer window road.

Seen it all before and Ive had enough.

I bet we are out of all comps by the end of March and face a fight for 4th/5th place again.

Yawn, yawn, yawn.

He didn't even choose Kosc/BFG to partner up, it happened when Verm got injured at Bayern away :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

That's not true, Vermaelen was dropped after the Tottenham game. He wasn't injured.

[KSE Comedy Club]

He didn't even choose Kosc/BFG to partner up, it happened when Verm got injured at Bayern away :lol:

Yep well there you go

*waits for letters to wade in with his 'he's not some bumbling idiot' comment.

:lol:

[Munchies]

That's not true, Vermaelen was dropped after the Tottenham game. He wasn't injured.

My bad, but there you go, he was forced into it because of how shite Verm played that day letting Bale/Lennon in

[Özim]

I don't want Wenger to have another go at another transfer window, I don't trust him to do what we need, so end of season is the end of the line for me.

[Globalgunner]

Yep well there you go

*waits for letters to wade in with his 'he's not some bumbling idiot' comment.

:lol:

On the evidence of what we've seen, this year, and the last 7 before. He is some bumbling idiot. His own worst enemy. If there is a way to cock up a winning hand Wenger will find it. Led the log from September till january, now we are hoping for 4th,...... again. Letters says theres been progress. I love the word progress. Something that you can insist you see, but have no hard evidence to prove......In some other climes its also called faith

[GP]

Munchies out.

[Niall_Quinn]

Endure almost a decade of this stadium move business and just as it comes to an end sack the manager? That's self evidently crazy. So are we saying if we'd won the Carling Milk Cup, or whatever it is called, during the last 8 years - don't sack him? Or if we'd have won the title once and finished 12th every other season, no sacking? Or just sack him because thanks for helping build a strong financial base and keeping us in the CL but we don't like the tactics so get somebody else in to capitalise on what has been built? Mancini maybe? Or AVB? Or another great on paper figure? Pick a lottery number.

Comedy clubs such as the chavs and the gypos have come into the game and all but transformed it from a sporting event on the pitch to a celebrity mercenary parade and a pile of devalued trophies with the price tag still hanging off them. No proper club can compete (as in financially afford) this, not even Man Utd as we can see with the wreckage left behind by Ferguson. Don't forget it was our striker developed by our manager that the great Fergie had to turn to to capture his last title in an environment where the comedy clubs were self destructing as a result of their utter disregard for the game and overwhelming urge to purchase prizes. The chavs with their merry-go-round of managers, the gypos with their dressing room knifings and chequebook solutions to each fresh mistake. Too much attention is paid to the whoring media spin on the facts. The media is just as bad as the comedy clubs, in it for and even shorter term succession of cheap headlines and thrills. These cunts aren't the history of football, their bullshit isn't a yardstick for anyone but morons and plastics.

We still can't and surely wouldn't want to behave like the comedy clubs, but apparently we are finally in a position to challenge in the hopelessly inflated market the mobsters and sand thieves have inflicted on football. We're doing this the right way. When we eventually win something (and we will) the prize will stand for success across the board, from the way the club is run behind the scenes, right through to the way we play on the pitch. As sportsmen. That's an achievement and it will have been done despite the undiluted vandalism of pretend clubs who forego the challenge and simply jump to the end game brandishing a chequebook. We have had to actually earn the cost of admission to this game. Everything we do has a genuine value that can be traced all the way back to proper business decisions. I don't think the temper tantrums of fans are sufficient to devalue this effort and I doubt they'll be sufficient to derail it either.

We went into this season hoping to grab 4th place again. We have done a lot better than expected. But we haven't made the type of leap that can be manufactured by doing a Harry Enfield routine. It was always likely to be that way but our over achievement generated a much bigger expectation that we originally had and now there's disappointment. But do we choose to behave like the grubby crook Abramovich? Do we say not good enough, we want it all immediately? Progression is not good, we need to leap to the end. Sack everybody if we can't have it now!

What if we improve again in the summer? What if we improve the season after that? What if we continue to improve? Eventually we reach a place the comedy clubs don't fantasize about because it is beyond their understanding. Achievement based on merit. What a day that will be and all the pieces have now been put in place to START the process. Why stall the engine?

Some want Usmanov and his billions pushed to the fore. Fine, but be certain of one thing - that's NOT football. Cunts like Abramovich and the 40 thieves don't fucking tell us what the game is or what it has become or what's real and not real. Fuck them. They are not football unless all the fans of proper clubs throw in the towel and accept the pile of horse shit being shovelled by the rats in the media. It's like anything else in life. Corrupt politicians are not normal just because they are in the majority. They are not "how the world just is" because none of us have the guts to string them from the lampposts.

Our club and our manager has said there is still some football in football, under all that shit. I say we give them the chance to prove it now the hard work adjusting to the destruction wrought by non-footballing interlopers has been concluded. I say fuck the media and their 8 years without a trophy, 100 red cards manure. I say fuck the FA who apparently would have happily allowed Adolf Hitler or Saddam Hussein to plant themselves in our sport. If we try and fail then so be it but I'm not for failing before we try. That really would be the ultimate lack of ambition.

Sack Wenger? Basically, no.

[Munchies]

^ From whatever we've seen of Wenger recently, it's that he's not cut out for the job. Yes the transfer fees nowadays are pushed over the top by the oilies, but there are numerous players out there that we could have got had Wenger not haggled over the fee. Higuain, world class goal scoring record, was linked to us for weeks and weeks, but he didn't want to pay £5m more. We have £120m in the bank now (latest financial results), are we asking for all of it to be spent to send us on the brink of being in debt ? No. But the squad has areas which needs investing in, which Wenger doesn't seem to want to address. He couldn't spend the whole summer/jan to find a striker better than Giroud/Bendnter ?

So far the only 'business decision' that is happening with the club is for them increasing their own pockets, charging the fans more and more each season for going to games. (3% increase).

[Globalgunner]

How anybody can still think Wenger is the way of the future is beyond me. The man has never spent his transfer budget in any window. Gets himself involved in ebvery minutae of a transgfer and screws it up as a result. He could maybe be a better manager if he left others to do the jobs he corrals into his own portfolio. He is 64 and the only way from here is downward, or more of the same, if you like your trophies labelled 4th.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

All I'll say is he brings all this on himself.

Put ourselves in a brilliant position to win the title for the first time in donkeys years. All he had to do was strengthen the squad at a critical point in the title race to help us push on. He decided to go bargain hunting again. Despite having a shit load of cash having spent fuck all over the years.

Previously there would be board issues or lack of funds given as an excuse. This season it really is down to him and nothing else, that's clear.

Having spent the majority of the season 1st, going into the final few weeks scraping for 4th would be a disgrace.

We've done so well to finally turn our fortunes around but we fuck it up once again. So much progress but so much disappointment.

If you get rid of him you could have a Man Utd effect as every player seems to think he's jesus. On the other hand, for the first time in years I'd actually trust Gazidis to get the right man in as he has seen what's happened to Utd and would want to avoid that. Plus he genuinely seems to want to spend but Wenger is the one reneging on deals, no doubt frustrating Ivan in the process.

I just don't know what to say or think anymore.

[Niall_Quinn]

^ From whatever we've seen of Wenger recently, it's that he's not cut out for the job. Yes the transfer fees nowadays are pushed over the top by the oilies, but there are numerous players out there that we could have got had Wenger not haggled over the fee. We have £120m in the bank now (latest financial results), are we asking for all of it to be spent to send us on the brink of being in debt ? No. But the squad has areas which needs investing in, which Wenger doesn't seem to want to address. He couldn't spend the whole summer/jan to find a striker better than Giroud/Bendnter ?

So far the only 'business decision' that is happening with the club is for them increasing their own pockets, charging the fans more and more each season for going to games. (3% increase).

How much would the chavs and the gypos have to charge for tickets if they didn't have funds robbed from Russians and the real Arab people poured in?

[Niall_Quinn]

Why didn't we have all this crying after the Sunderland game? Is it really that simple? Win and Wenger can stay. Lose and he has to go? On a match by match basis? That's silly.

[Munchies]

Well when you're in a position of being in charge of a sports team, being paid £7m a year, you are solely judged by your teams performances. After all, you're in charge of the players you have and the tactics that are being employed.

8 years and counting of having won nothing.

This defeat signifies the 'Collapse' which happens every year that's why.

Now, even Kroenke doesn't get any flak. It's all Wenger, he's given the funds and doesn't want to spend.

[gunnerrrrr]

Wenger has become a parody of himself.

For the last 5 or 6 years its been like clockwork...buy players way below standard, not address problem areas, no change in game tactics etc etc and repeat.

How can everyone see the obvious gaps and yet Wenger refuses to address them, its ridiculous and complete arrogance on his part.

Buy Ozil was great, and like many i rejoiced that we were willing to spend again but i genuinely thought either last summer or in January we would buy a pacey striker to complement our abundance of midfielders. Wenger true to form simply could not address or would not address this matter.

He is a guy built on principles which were fine 15 years ago....however it saddens me to say he has not moved with the times, he has been obvious and unimaginative a manager as you can get.

His clear genius still gets him through and yes we do "win" the 4th place trophy....but that maverick, innovative, genius of a manager who came here in 1996 is no longer the same man.

Its not so much a case of Wenger out, its more so a case of we need new direction and if he truly does love this club he will not sign another deal to extend his contract.

[Munchies]

Remember that Football Manager player who got a job as a coach of a real football team ? He finished 5th.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2340324/Football-Manager-Vugar-Huseynzade-got-FC-Baku-job.html

Give me the job :coffee: . Not too hard to see where the faults are in this team.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well when you're in a position of being in charge of a sports team, being paid £7m a year, you are solely judged by your teams performances. After all, you're in charge of the players you have and the tactics that are being employed.

8 years and counting of having won nothing.

This defeat signifies the 'Collapse' which happens every year that's why.

Now, even Kroenke doesn't get any flak. It's all Wenger, he's given the funds and doesn't want to spend.

But this just isn't true. Plainly Wenger is not just judged on what happens on the pitch. If anything the board seems to place more emphasis on what he does off the pitch. He gets paid £7mill to generate and extra £40odd million and he's done it every season. I don't like the bias towards business decisions when they are taken at the expense of the team, but the Wenger wage thing and the way the board views it all is not the same thing as the fans' view. Probably never will be and we're not the only club who suffers that. Thieves like Abromovich can PRETEND to share the ambitions of the fans because he has limitless funds to shovel. But he didn't give much of a toss and his true colours were revealed with that whole Shevchenko business, for example.

[milla]

Depends on who is given the job.

Moyes was a fail of an appointment.

Owen Coyle would atleast try to fix the team. Wenger does fuck all. I don't see what he does. Tactically we're toothless in attack, transfer market has been shoddy for a long time. He let us get trounced by Liverpool, and made subs at 60 mins when we were out of it.

Jurgen Klopp FTW. If the club make the offer I am sure Dortmund will let him go.

[milla]

Well when you're in a position of being in charge of a sports team, being paid £7m a year, you are solely judged by your teams performances. After all, you're in charge of the players you have and the tactics that are being employed.

8 years and counting of having won nothing.

This defeat signifies the 'Collapse' which happens every year that's why.

Now, even Kroenke doesn't get any flak. It's all Wenger, he's given the funds and doesn't want to spend.

Kroenke will get a lot, I don't think he will want Wenger or the new manager to completely overhaul the team. It will cost him too much.

[Globalgunner]

NQ I really wish you would let up with the City,United,Chelsea axis of evil B.S. It is the refuge of Loser's. The reasons why Wenger fails is just down to himself and no one else. At times its as if he is actually afraid to win, maybe because, next season,he will be under pressure to win again .Wengers fails because he won't do what it takes to win, pure egomaniac

[JonasTC]

Yes thats totally how it works :sarcy:

[The Ogg Monster]

Wenger out? No.

One of the greatest managers of all time and our most succesful.

More knee-jerk crap.

[AFC Leveller]

NQ I really wish you would let up with the City,United,Chelsea axis of evil B.S. It is the refuge of Loser's. The reasons why Wenger fails is just down to himself and no one else. At times its as if he is actually afraid to win, maybe because, next season,he will be under pressure to win again .Wengers fails because he won't do what it takes to win, pure egomaniac

That my friend is somebody talking facts and sense.

Look at the amount of "small" teams that have reached finals/won cups over the last few years and you'll see not only is the talk about financial doping irrelevant but that with the right attitude and application, you can win a trophy or two. Sunderland this season, Wigan last, Everton a couple of seasons before that just to name a few. (id name Birmingham too but that'd be painful)

I just think that we could and should have won a cup or two and the reasons we havent won anything is not just down to dirty money being thrown around, its mainly because the manager simply doesnt know how to win and wont do the necessary. I remember after that loss in the CC in 2011, i thought to myself "we'll never win anything under this guy again".

[Niall_Quinn]

If I read the theory going around right, the double double winner doesn't know how to win? Is that about it?

All I'm saying is a 3D analysis takes more factors into account than a one dimensional knee jerk.

[AFC Leveller]

If I read the theory going around right, the double double winner doesn't know how to win? Is that about it?

All I'm saying is a 3D analysis takes more factors into account than a one dimensional knee jerk.

If I read the theory going around right, the double double winner doesn't know how to win ANYMORE? Is that about it?

[AFC Leveller]

According to Tim Payton:

Arsene Wenger out of contract at Arsenal in just 3 months. Solely his decision on whether to renew. Understand he's not decided

[Ollie the Optimist]

How anybody can still think Wenger is the way of the future is beyond me. The man has never spent his transfer budget in any window. Gets himself involved in ebvery minutae of a transgfer and screws it up as a result. He could maybe be a better manager if he left others to do the jobs he corrals into his own portfolio. He is 64 and the only way from here is downward, or more of the same, if you like your trophies labelled 4th.


thats just a stupid thing to say. just because you don't spend all the money doenst mean you are a bad manager. Last summer we spent 42 million and got Mesut Ozil, Flamini and Sanogo. Spurs spent their entire transfer budget of over 100 million and got a massive pile of shit who are now trying to leave the club.

I do agree with those that say Arsene got it wrong in not signing a striker, clearly we needed one for the last couple of years and the higuuain saga was a fuck up.

[JonasTC]

Tbf why pay 35m for Higuain, when you get told that you can get Suarez for 40m?

[Letters]

Endure almost a decade of this stadium move business and just as it comes to an end sack the manager? That's self evidently crazy. So are we saying if we'd won the Carling Milk Cup, or whatever it is called, during the last 8 years - don't sack him? Or if we'd have won the title once and finished 12th every other season, no sacking? Or just sack him because thanks for helping build a strong financial base and keeping us in the CL but we don't like the tactics so get somebody else in to capitalise on what has been built? Mancini maybe? Or AVB? Or another great on paper figure? Pick a lottery number.

Comedy clubs such as the chavs and the gypos have come into the game and all but transformed it from a sporting event on the pitch to a celebrity mercenary parade and a pile of devalued trophies with the price tag still hanging off them. No proper club can compete (as in financially afford) this, not even Man Utd as we can see with the wreckage left behind by Ferguson. Don't forget it was our striker developed by our manager that the great Fergie had to turn to to capture his last title in an environment where the comedy clubs were self destructing as a result of their utter disregard for the game and overwhelming urge to purchase prizes. The chavs with their merry-go-round of managers, the gypos with their dressing room knifings and chequebook solutions to each fresh mistake. Too much attention is paid to the whoring media spin on the facts. The media is just as bad as the comedy clubs, in it for and even shorter term succession of cheap headlines and thrills. These cunts aren't the history of football, their bullshit isn't a yardstick for anyone but morons and plastics.

We still can't and surely wouldn't want to behave like the comedy clubs, but apparently we are finally in a position to challenge in the hopelessly inflated market the mobsters and sand thieves have inflicted on football. We're doing this the right way. When we eventually win something (and we will) the prize will stand for success across the board, from the way the club is run behind the scenes, right through to the way we play on the pitch. As sportsmen. That's an achievement and it will have been done despite the undiluted vandalism of pretend clubs who forego the challenge and simply jump to the end game brandishing a chequebook. We have had to actually earn the cost of admission to this game. Everything we do has a genuine value that can be traced all the way back to proper business decisions. I don't think the temper tantrums of fans are sufficient to devalue this effort and I doubt they'll be sufficient to derail it either.

We went into this season hoping to grab 4th place again. We have done a lot better than expected. But we haven't made the type of leap that can be manufactured by doing a Harry Enfield routine. It was always likely to be that way but our over achievement generated a much bigger expectation that we originally had and now there's disappointment. But do we choose to behave like the grubby crook Abramovich? Do we say not good enough, we want it all immediately? Progression is not good, we need to leap to the end. Sack everybody if we can't have it now!

What if we improve again in the summer? What if we improve the season after that? What if we continue to improve? Eventually we reach a place the comedy clubs don't fantasize about because it is beyond their understanding. Achievement based on merit. What a day that will be and all the pieces have now been put in place to START the process. Why stall the engine?

Some want Usmanov and his billions pushed to the fore. Fine, but be certain of one thing - that's NOT football. Cunts like Abramovich and the 40 thieves don't fucking tell us what the game is or what it has become or what's real and not real. Fuck them. They are not football unless all the fans of proper clubs throw in the towel and accept the pile of horse shit being shovelled by the rats in the media. It's like anything else in life. Corrupt politicians are not normal just because they are in the majority. They are not "how the world just is" because none of us have the guts to string them from the lampposts.

Our club and our manager has said there is still some football in football, under all that shit. I say we give them the chance to prove it now the hard work adjusting to the destruction wrought by non-footballing interlopers has been concluded. I say fuck the media and their 8 years without a trophy, 100 red cards manure. I say fuck the FA who apparently would have happily allowed Adolf Hitler or Saddam Hussein to plant themselves in our sport. If we try and fail then so be it but I'm not for failing before we try. That really would be the ultimate lack of ambition.

Sack Wenger? Basically, no.
I love you :cloud9:

Homo.

[selassie]

Tbf why pay 35m for Higuain, when you get told that you can get Suarez for 40m?

We got neither because of Wenger's valuations. A glass of water is worth a fortune to a man dying of thirst.

[JonasTC]

I cant take most of you guys serious, if we had bought Higuain and you found out that we could've bid for Suarez and got him for 40m, after he have scored 20+ goals, you would've all been "Wenger out" aswell.

Goonersweb :bow:

[selassie]

Wenger out? No.

One of the greatest managers of all time and our most succesful.

More knee-jerk crap.

Sure Wenger is a great manager and our most successful but there comes a time for change. Every Dog has it's day.

What we are seeing now isn't some kind of accident, it's the same every single season. I don't even know what half of you pro-wengerites are waiting for? From a pure footballing point of view why should he stay on as our Manager?

[Ollie the Optimist]

We got neither because of Wenger's valuations. A glass of water is worth a fortune to a man dying of thirst.


given john henrys interview today, not quite sure we can blame Arsene for not paying over 40 for usarez when he had a legally binding release clause in his contract for 40 million. thats surely the fault of the board or whoever does transfers

[JonasTC]

Anyway, why are people talking about Higuain to be some kind of savior? His stats are the same as Girouds, and thats playing in the italian league. Im happy we didnt pay 35m for him.

[selassie]

I cant take most of you guys serious, if we had bought Higuain and you found out that we could've bid for Suarez and got him for 40m, after he have scored 20+ goals, you would've all been "Wenger out" aswell.

Goonersweb :bow:

No Jonas, the brief was for Wenger to go out and purchase a top class striker in the summer. I would have been very happy with the purchase of Higuain irrespective of the price or who else was available. Wenger totally botched up the summer window in his pursuit of a striker, that's the bottom line. Do I think it screwed up our season? Of course I do...with quality up top we would be a totally different proposition IMHO.

[selassie]

given john henrys interview today, not quite sure we can blame Arsene for not paying over 40 for usarez when he had a legally binding release clause in his contract for 40 million. thats surely the fault of the board or whoever does transfers

What was said in the interview Ollie?

[Letters]

This decision has to be made at the end of the season. There has looked like some progress this year but a collapse is looking worryingly likely now.

But no-one would have started this thread had the result gone the other way yesterday and we were a point off the top. It didn't, fine, but that shouldn't be the difference between this thread existing and not.

[Ollie the Optimist]

What was said in the interview Ollie?

that the 40 million release clause was actually real and he felt in england contracts were not taken seriously so he gambled on us not taking it to court.

[selassie]

Anyway, why are people talking about Higuain to be some kind of savior? His stats are the same as Girouds, and thats playing in the italian league. Im happy we didnt pay 35m for him.

We needed an upgrade on Giroud. Higuain might not have been the saviour but he's a darn sight better than Giroud. You go and check out Higuain's career stats at both club and international level if you don't think he's an upgrade. He's a proven top class striker.

[JonasTC]

We needed an upgrade on Giroud. Higuain might not have been the saviour but he's a darn sight better than Giroud. You go and check out Higuain's career stats at both club and international level if you don't think he's an upgrade. He's a proven top class striker.

The fun thing is, i've already done that and thats why i can say i dont see him as an improvement to Giroud. You should try the same before you say something like that :d

[Niall_Quinn]

In light of Henry's revelations, where he declares himself a deeply dishonourable man (just like the majority of players of course), it appears Wenger put in a real bid for the absolute best we could realistically buy given Messi and Ronaldo were non-starters. If Henry had honoured the contract he signed with Suarez then Suarez would be in an Arsenal shirt now. So the real question becomes, after Wenger made just about as audacious a move as possible to strengthen where we needed to strengthen, why didn't he find an inferior solution in the short time remaining after the Suarez deal fell through? He tried for Ba as backup but Maureen played that to the chav's advantage which is his job. Seems like Higuain went by the wayside in our pursuit of Suarez, doubt we could have afforded both. January we tried for Draxler but I guess we made a judgement call not to blow a big part of the summer budget on such a young player. Legitimately it could be asked why didn't we get any old player in as cover? To which I guess Wenger must view "any old player" and Sanogo as equivalent. And all the while there was the question of Giroud. No problem to replace him with a Suarez I would think. But replace him with a second tier striker? Why bother, we'd have only seen the same results.

As for Ozil, that's probably part #2 of the plan that occurred before part #1 (the striker) because an opportunity too good to let slide popped up and we still had the money that was supposed to be spent on Suarez in our pocket. Or, as some fans seem to suggest, it was a £42mill appeasement after 8 years of flatly ignoring to appease calls for a quick fix. Or not. More likely we're seeing the plan unfold out of sequence due to circumstances that didn't develop as we'd hoped.

It's not unreasonable to conclude Wenger is more than happy to spend the money if he thinks he's getting something better than we already have and in fact he's said as much in the past. Which suggests there's every chance we'll be in the market in a big way come the summer. If we aren't then that raises a whole different set of questions of the type we haven't genuinely faced before.

Also I'm not a "Wengerite", I'm an "Arsenalite". I can see something taking shape from the nondescript lull that has been the last 8 years. I think eggs are going to be in short supply come the summer and omelets will be Gooner facial fashion by May 2015.

[Özim]

The fun thing is, i've already done that and thats why i can say i dont see him as an improvement to Giroud. You should try the same before you say something like that :d

I can see the difference between Higuain and Giroud, Giroud is dogshite, Higuain isn't.

That's a big difference.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I cant take most of you guys serious, if we had bought Higuain and you found out that we could've bid for Suarez and got him for 40m, after he have scored 20+ goals, you would've all been "Wenger out" aswell.

Goonersweb :bow:

No I wouldn't, I would have thought well glad we bought a striker, Suarez is good but I'd rather have Higuain than no one. Higuain for me is easily in the same class bracket as Suarez and we could have signed him and he would have come to us.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

i think Higuain was perfect for us, definitely the same quality as Suarez and without the baggage

[Munchies]

The fun thing is, i've already done that and thats why i can say i dont see him as an improvement to Giroud. You should try the same before you say something like that :d

Oh dear, Giroud = Higuain ?

:doh:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

problem for me is that if we got rid of Wenger who do we get in to replace him, only candidate for me would be Jurgen Klopp and I think he has lost a lot of his prestige. I think Wenger should be a) allowed only one year contract extensions and b) has his power at the club watered down especially over transfer negotiations

[Munchies]

In light of Henry's revelations...

He had the whole summer to sign a striker. We only moved for Suarez towards the end of the window.

[Niall_Quinn]

Higuain is not even close to being in the same class as Suarez though, is he? Suarez is top tier, among a handful of players in the world. Higuan is one step down from that level, though still a very good player. I'd agree, more accomplished than Giroud. We must have really thought we could pull the Suarez deal off. And I can see why now. The player wanted to come here, there was a clause that said he could, we offered the money, Henry broke the terms of his contract with Suarez. That last bit killed the deal. I guess we didn't take into account owners could be as dishonourable as players. Interesting if this is allowed to stand without sever penalties levied against Liverpool. The whole contract things has been vigorously defended by the authorities since Bosman. Now Liverpool say they are ignoring it. If it rides and we are ever faced with an RvC situation again we can hold out with confidence. Henry has dramatically changed the face of the British game. Also this puts Suarez in a much more understandable light, no wonder he went on strike.

[Özim]

In light of Henry's revelations, where he declares himself a deeply dishonourable man (just like the majority of players of course), it appears Wenger put in a real bid for the absolute best we could realistically buy given Messi and Ronaldo were non-starters. If Henry had honoured the contract he signed with Suarez then Suarez would be in an Arsenal shirt now. So the real question becomes, after Wenger made just about as audacious a move as possible to strengthen where we needed to strengthen, why didn't he find an inferior solution in the short time remaining after the Suarez deal fell through? He tried for Ba as backup but Maureen played that to the chav's advantage which is his job. Seems like Higuain went by the wayside in our pursuit of Suarez, doubt we could have afforded both. January we tried for Draxler but I guess we made a judgement call not to blow a big part of the summer budget on such a young player. Legitimately it could be asked why didn't we get any old player in as cover? To which I guess Wenger must view "any old player" and Sanogo as equivalent. And all the while there was the question of Giroud. No problem to replace him with a Suarez I would think. But replace him with a second tier striker? Why bother, we'd have only seen the same results.

As for Ozil, that's probably part #2 of the plan that occurred before part #1 (the striker) because an opportunity too good to let slide popped up and we still had the money that was supposed to be spent on Suarez in our pocket. Or, as some fans seem to suggest, it was a £42mill appeasement after 8 years of flatly ignoring to appease calls for a quick fix. Or not. More likely we're seeing the plan unfold out of sequence due to circumstances that didn't develop as we'd hoped.

It's not unreasonable to conclude Wenger is more than happy to spend the money if he thinks he's getting something better than we already have and in fact he's said as much in the past. Which suggests there's every chance we'll be in the market in a big way come the summer. If we aren't then that raises a whole different set of questions of the type we haven't genuinely faced before.

Also I'm not a "Wengerite", I'm an "Arsenalite". I can see something taking shape from the nondescript lull that has been the last 8 years. I think eggs are going to be in short supply come the summer and omelets will be Gooner facial fashion by May 2015.

This signing someone only if he's better stuff he's been coming out with for years and yet he's disproved his own theory with many of his signings and has ignored the opportunity to sign players clearly better than what we have as well.

IMO, Wenger won't ever win another trophy and there's plenty of evidence available to suggest why, he can't motivate, his team never turn up at crunch time, his substitutions are generally awful and always seem to happen at the same kind of time, his tactical nous is average at best, he's too stubborn and won't deviate from his masterplan of dominating the world with pass pass football, his squad is always top heavy with central midfielders and short in other areas, he overrates his players to the detriment of our chances of success, he thinks players who get injured all the time can be relied upon.

There's probably more but that's a start, I absolutely don't trust him to do the necessary in the transfer market, he never does, he's now had almost 9 years and had money last summer (which apparently was last chance saloon, just like the summer before than and before that) and still failed in the transfer market in terms of the teams need.

There's no more excuses now, no more places to hide, he's had plenty of time and it just hasn't worked out, he tried it his way and sadly for him his way has proven to be flawed and now it's time for someone else to have a go.

[Niall_Quinn]

He had the whole summer to sign a striker. We only moved for Suarez towards the end of the window.

We don't know the details for sure but it appears we had Higuain lined up, our early window activity, then a better option surfaced, our late window activity. Looks like we sacrificed Higuain to pursue Suarez. Also Higuain's price kept going up as I recall. We ended up with neither. A fuck up in some respects but certainly not an indication of a lack of ambition. Seems we were being as ambitious as it was possible to be.

[Özim]

He had the whole summer to sign a striker. We only moved for Suarez towards the end of the window.

Yeah he did, plenty of strikers flying around last summer, we seem to sit on our arses for 3 months and then decide it's time to do something last minute. If you can't find a decent striker in 3 months you're doing something wrong.

[Özim]

We don't know the details for sure but it appears we had Higuain lined up, our early window activity, then a better option surfaced, our late window activity. Looks like we sacrificed Higuain to pursue Suarez. Also Higuain's price kept going up as I recall. We ended up with neither. A fuck up in some respects but certainly not an indication of a lack of ambition. Seems we were being as ambitious as it was possible to be.

It shouldn't take 1-2 months to sign someone, if you want them you offer the money, if it's turned down you either make a bigger bid or move on.

[Niall_Quinn]

This signing someone only if he's better stuff he's been coming out with for years and yet he's disproved his own theory with many of his signings and has ignored the opportunity to sign players clearly better than what we have as well.

IMO, Wenger won't ever win another trophy and there's plenty of evidence available to suggest why, he can't motivate, his team never turn up at crunch time, his substitutions are generally awful and always seem to happen at the same kind of time, his tactical nous is average at best, he's too stubborn and won't deviate from his masterplan of dominating the world with pass pass football, his squad is always top heavy with central midfielders and short in other areas, he overrates his players to the detriment of our chances of success, he thinks players who get injured all the time can be relied upon.

There's probably more but that's a start, I absolutely don't trust him to do the necessary in the transfer market, he never does, he's now had almost 9 years and had money last summer (which apparently was last chance saloon, just like the summer before than and before that) and still failed in the transfer market in terms of the teams need.

There's no more excuses now, no more places to hide, he's had plenty of time and it just hasn't worked out, he tried it his way and sadly for him his way has proven to be flawed and now it's time for someone else to have a go.

He's signed players ranging from Sanogo through to Ozil. I don't think anyone would seriously claim these are viewed as comparable signings. One is a young player with potential, the other an established first team player. So there have been duds for sure but not all of theme were ever designed to be first eleven. For a Santos you have a Mertesacker. For a Gervinho and Oxelade Chamberlain. I would say we've done just as well in the transfer market as any other club (including the chavs and gypos who have had more multi million disasters than can be recalled).

[Niall_Quinn]

It shouldn't take 1-2 months to sign someone, if you want them you offer the money, if it's turned down you either make a bigger bid or move on.

Why do you make a bigger bid when there is a clause in a contract specifying what you need to bid? Henry dishonoured the contract, obviously he was intent to use any means to tie Suarez to Liverpool. Plus, unlike some, we have to earn the money we spend so there are limits.

[Özim]

He's signed players ranging from Sanogo through to Ozil. I don't think anyone would seriously claim these are viewed as comparable signings. One is a young player with potential, the other an established first team player. So there have been duds for sure but not all of theme were ever designed to be first eleven. For a Santos you have a Mertesacker. For a Gervinho and Oxelade Chamberlain. I would say we've done just as well in the transfer market as any other club (including the chavs and gypos who have had more multi million disasters than can be recalled).

Perhaps he has, but his claim that he won't sign anyone unless they are better than what we have is nonsense, plenty of 1st team players signed weren't good enough or better than what we had and many we sub standard.

Ox was signed as a kid not ready for the 1st team, I think he's terrific but at the time we needed first team players and he failed to address this issue properly, IMO in the transfer market he's been found wanting, because he's signings have never been about the teams needs, they've been more about the players he likes.

[Özim]

Why do you make a bigger bid when there is a clause in a contract specifying what you need to bid? Henry dishonoured the contract, obviously he was intent to use any means to tie Suarez to Liverpool. Plus, unlike some, we have to earn the money we spend so there are limits.

Well we didn't know that for sure (if we did then we should have taken legal action), but if you're not going to then just move on and find someone else, we spend months chasing players and often end up with nothing, at the end of the day if you need a striker and one isn't realistically going to come because he's too expensive or he wants to move elsewhere you don't site around and wait.

We didn't have to sign Suarez, there were other players available which would have improved us and having failed to sign him we should have made sure we signed one, we have the resources.

[Özim]

Personally I think we should take Liverpool to court on this, not to get Suarez (we won't) but out of principle, if true then they've broken the rules and should be punished accordingly.

[Özim]

I've had enough of being in the same place every season now, if it happens once, twice maybe three times you can't put it down to bad luck, but after 8 almost 9 years of it it's not down to bad luck anymore, it's down to the person who builds the team, sets the tactics and chooses the team, I don't really understand how we can continually fail every single time it really matters.

[Niall_Quinn]

Personally I think we should take Liverpool to court on this, not to get Suarez (we won't) but out of principle, if true then they've broken the rules and should be punished accordingly.

I don't. Bottom line is if Suarez has accepted it then ultimately there's no case to answer. The only lot who can make a fuss about this now are the authorities because this sets a precedent that throws everything since Bosman into the air.

[GP]

It's not up to us to take them to court. The contract was with the player and he evidently didn't want to pursue legal action.

[Niall_Quinn]

I've had enough of being in the same place every season now, if it happens once, twice maybe three times you can't put it down to bad luck, but after 8 almost 9 years of it it's not down to bad luck anymore, it's down to the person who builds the team, sets the tactics and chooses the team, I don't really understand how we can continually fail every single time it really matters.

The 8 years represents the time it has taken to execute a financial plan that gives us the resources to take us from the bargain bucket and into the same market as our direct rivals.

[Özim]

I don't. Bottom line is if Suarez has accepted it then ultimately there's no case to answer. The only lot who can make a fuss about this now are the authorities because this sets a precedent that throws everything since Bosman into the air.

Buy out clauses will be about as worthless as the contracts that contain them then I guess, may as well not have one.

What I find strange is that Suarez would have known about this if this is true (he signed the contract), so if he really wanted to move he would have taken action, makes me think he wasn't that bothered to come to us.

[Özim]

The 8 years represents the time it has taken to execute a financial plan that gives us the resources to take us from the bargain bucket and into the same market as our direct rivals.

It doesn't explain the collapses every single season though? What has that got to do with finances, it seems to have more to do with mentality, tactics, team selection, preparation and motivation to me.

We've had teams that were well placed, all they lacked was motivation and desire, you can't buy that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Makes me think there's a World Cup coming up.

[Özim]

Makes me think there's a World Cup coming up.

and an International friendly in midweek in preparation for this ;)

But seriously, are you saying Suarez didn't move because he thought it might affect his world cup chances? Can't see it myself, he's guaranteed a place as he's one of their best players, doesn't seem to lack belief in his own ability either.

[Niall_Quinn]

It doesn't explain the collapses every single season though? What has that got to do with finances, it seems to have more to do with mentality, tactics, team selection, preparation and motivation to me.

We've had teams that were well placed, all they lacked was motivation and desire, you can't buy that.

No, not fully. There's a psychological weakness there for sure. And something up with the whole fitness/ medical thing. But not being able to buy three world class players for every position does explain some things in terms of direct comparison with clubs like the chavs and gypos. It's a curse having international players in the squad, but not enough top quality internationals to account for the terrible attrition rate we seem to suffer from poxy friendlies and non-event fixtures. Recall how Fergie found every way to stick two fingers up at the national teams, we should do that.

Team selection and tactics seems to be dictated by this fear of a lack of resources. I don't like that either. I'd rather have 20 players out and be playing with adventure and being beaten than see the conservative shit we see now. On the other hand, everyone screamed for a tighter defence, less goals conceded. We have that now but there has been a cost. We haven't found a middle ground and it may not be possible to find one without further investment in the team. Which brings us back to the point. Following the unwinding of this hellish 8 year stadium thing, we should now be in a position to properly invest in the team. In terms of going for the top. If we don't then of course there is a big problem.

[Niall_Quinn]

and an International friendly in midweek in preparation for this ;)

But seriously, are you saying Suarez didn't move because he thought it might affect his world cup chances? Can't see it myself, he's guaranteed a place as he's one of their best players, doesn't seem to lack belief in his own ability either.

No, I'm saying lawyers are trained to string these things out to eternity. Suarez was left with a choice, play or rot. He was chucked into the reserves wasn't he? And training alone? In the end a big player has to play and Liverpool became his only option when the terms of the contract weren't honoured. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the whole process starts up again in the summer.

[Globalgunner]

8 years of failure have neatly coincided with our apparent lack of finances, in which time somehow we have managed to accrue a bank balance of 120m. Something in that logic seems a bit fishy to me. I wonder what the excuse will be next year when we will be fighting again for the 4th place trophy. By that time it will be 10 years without winning shit.

[fakeyank]

Yes, absolutely yes. Even we somehow fluke a FA cup win, I want him gone. He is well past his prime!

Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

[Niall_Quinn]

8 years of failure have neatly coincided with our apparent lack of finances, in which time somehow we have managed to accrue a bank balance of 120m. Something in that logic seems a bit fishy to me. I wonder what the excuse will be next year when we will be fighting again for the 4th place trophy. By that time it will be 10 years without winning shit.

The bank balance fluctuates up and down as certain revenues and expenses occur thorough the year. Provided the money can be accounted for there isn't a problem and a good portion of it must surely be available for investment in the squad. If we hear the shareholders intend to withdraw money, like the last bunch of absolute bastards, then the panic button needs to be hit hard. No indication of that so far.

[Chippy]

NQ I really wish you would let up with the City,United,Chelsea axis of evil B.S. It is the refuge of Loser's. The reasons why Wenger fails is just down to himself and no one else. At times its as if he is actually afraid to win, maybe because, next season,he will be under pressure to win again .Wengers fails because he won't do what it takes to win, pure egomaniac
Maureen summed it up last week about Wenger. Good at losing!

[Niall_Quinn]

Maureen summed it up last week about Wenger. Good at losing!

And Maureen was completely wrong.

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/arsne-wenger/bilanz/trainer_280.html

[Chippy]

And Maureen was completely wrong.

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/arsne-wenger/bilanz/trainer_280.html
Quinny, you are one of the very few on here that thinks Wenger should stay. Wenger has run out of ideas and also luck. Don't forget, he inherited the best defence the club has ever had! That is why he has been successful. Look at the shit he has bought over the years to try and replace it (Cygan, Stepanovs, Senderos etc). All abysmal players! Time to go.

[GP]

Quinny, you are one of the very few on here that thinks Wenger should stay. Wenger has run out of ideas and also luck. Don't forget, he inherited the best defence the club has ever had! That is why he has been successful. Look at the shit he has bought over the years to try and replace it (Cygan, Stepanovs, Senderos etc). All abysmal players! Time to go.

Campbell, Sagna, Koscielny, all utter shit. You're right.

[Ollie the Optimist]

and don't forget without Arsene, adams, dixon etc would have retired long before they actually did. he extended their careers.

all managers make dud signings, using some poor defensive examples as proof as to why wenger should go despite ignoring all the good signings he made is just stupid

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

If what Oliie said about Henry is true, I believe we can take Liverpool to court and the club owe it to the fans to do so.

Anyway I don't we will and I'm 100% sure if this had happened to serious clubs like Man U, Man City, the Chavs and even Liverpool themselves- the other club would have their asses sued off.

I know a lot of people are still stuck in la la land and believe that competing is all about your 11 on the field- but it hasn't been and never was even when we were winning in the 30s (people should fcking delve into history and stop thinking themselves to be saint). This era of slackers is totally disheartning and I just wonder what we did to deserve such gutless people from top to bottom. I'm just effing sick of this BS..... prolly need to punch a granny!

[Chippy]

and don't forget without Arsene, adams, dixon etc would have retired long before they actually did. he extended their careers.

all managers make dud signings, using some poor defensive examples as proof as to why wenger should go despite ignoring all the good signings he made is just stupid
Not just bad defensive signings. Bendtner, Denilson, Chamach, Sanago, again, I could go on. At the end of the day, I have a huge passion for our club, and in mx opinion, Wenger is not the man to lead us into the next phase.I am concerned that if eets a 70m war chest, he`will waste it.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Regarding the Henry cooments, it still doesn't explain`why Gordon Taylgr came out and said literally the opposKte; that it wasn't a "cast iron buyout clause" but rathdr a threshold when negotiation could take place.
And does Wengar really seem the type to put in a £40m+1 bid based on newspaper articles, for a supposedly secret clause on a whim?

I get uhe feeling it's not as cut and dried as the twitter quotes make it seem, or Henry has massivelyover-simplified(the situation.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Not just bad defensive signings. Bendtner, Deoilson, ahamach,`Sanago, again, I could fo on. At the ent of the day, I have a huge passion for our club, and in my opinion, Wenfer is not the man to ledd us into the next phase. I am concerned that if gets a 70m war chest, he will waste it.

henry< wiltord, pires, nasri, ozil, cazorla, 'ilberto, viera, ljunberg. the list goes on of god signings a lnt longer then tje bad signing list.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

BTW the revelations in this Suarez matter does not excuse almosta decade of hurt and failure- neither does it excuse what happened in the summev and especially this January when even a blind man could see what we needed to do.

We have got to bite the bullet and get rid of all dinosaurs in our club, and the biggest one has always been AW. The longer we wait, the more it uill hurt, its the simple truth.

[Globalgunner]

ZQUOTE=Ollie the Optimist;376144]henry, wiltord, pires, nasri, ozil, cazkrla, gilberto, viera, ljunberg. the list goes on of good signings a lot longer then the bad signing list.[/QUOTE]
2006, 7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14. The years of failure are a lot longer than the good ones

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Regarding the Henry comments, it still doesn't explamn why Gordon Taylor came out and said literally the opposite; that it wasn't a "cast iron buyout clause" but rather a threshold when negotiation could take place.
And does Wenger really seem the type to put in a £40m+1 bid based on newspaper articles, for a supposedly secret clause on a whim?

I get the feeling it's not as cut anl dried as the twitter quotes make it seem, or Henry has massively over-simplified the situation.

Its`on the Euardians website right now... I really wanna hurt someone.

[Power n Glory]

It's very dishonest of them

[Niall_Quinn]

[QUOTE=Coutinho Is Boss;376142]Regarding the Henry comments, it still doesn't expmain why Gordon Taylor came out `nd said literally the opposite; that it wasn't a "cast iron buyout clause" but rather a threshond when negotiation could take place.
And does Wenger really seem the t{pe to put in a £40m+1 cid based on newspaper articles, for a sUpposedly secret clause on a whim?

I get the feeling it's not as cut ind dried as the twitter quotes make it peem, or`Henry has massi

[Niall_Quinn]

[QUOTE=Steve French;376154]Fifty quid says you're right.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk[/QUMTE]

Hold on, that means I have to bet against myself when I know I'll be wrong as a result.

Might as well give you the fifty now, what's the address?

[Chippy]

2006, 7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14. The years of failure are a lnt longer than tle good ones
You beat me to it ;)
Also, I do not remember such heavy dafeats as 8-2, 6-3, 5-1 etc! Irrelevant to our discussion I know, but we seem to have lost our way in the last few years.

[RomfordPele]

I suppose on the contract thing, it was for Suarez's legal team to enforce it, not ours. And he's not likely to now everything's all sweetness and light with Liverpool. Still, it'll be interesting to see how he reacts over the summer when Real Madrid come calling...

[selassie]

The fun thing is, i've already done that and thats why i can say i dont see him as an improvement to Giroud. You should try the same before you say something like that :d

You have based the stats on just this season, you haven't provided a sample of there career stats....here you go...links included. If you think Giroud is a more rounded player than Higuain that's up to you. It isn't even just about stats, Higuain is an established international/cl level striker who has been banging them in for fun for years for both Real & Argentina, Giroud only really came onto the scene in the 11/12 season prior to his move to us and he's not even established at international level either.

http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/67310/gonzalo-higua%C3%ADn?cc=5739

Summary of Higuain's Career Stats inc Internationals

This Season 36 games 23 goals Napoli/Argentina
12/13 43 games 28 goals Real Madrid/Argentina
11/12 38 games 32 goals Real Madrid/Argentina
10/11 30 games 19 goals Real Madrid/Argentina
09/10 37 games 30 goals Real Madrid/Argentina
08/09 37 games 23 goals Real Madrid/Argentina

http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/88965/olivier-giroud?cc=57390



Summary of Giroud's Career Stats inc Internationals

This Season 38 games 17 goals Arsenal/France
12/13 39 games 20 goals Arsenal/France
11/12 40 games 24 goals Montepellier/France
10/11 34 games 12 goals Montepellier
09/10 38 games 23 goals Tours (Ligue 2)
08/09 22 games 13 goals Tours (Ligue 2)

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Tbf, Gordon Taylor is a world renowned cunt and a nest feathering liar. Treat anything he says as the opposite and you'll be on safe ground. Would be easy to say that's what you get when you deal with Yanks - but of course we are lumbered with Yanks too.

Well there is that.

I'm long past the point of caring with this "saga" now though. I take it we won't be buying Oxlade off you though...

[saintnickle]

henry, wiltord, pires, nasri, ozil, cazorla, gilberto, viera, ljunberg. the list goes on of good signings a lot longer then the bad signing list.

The biggest aqnd latest nail in the coffin is with 70m in the bank and pushing for trophys is Kalstrom, a 31 year old who is out for 3 months.Now ollie,niall and jonas come and put your Wenger spin on that..

[GP]

And then they made out he was the dishonourable party. Must have been some amazing blow job to get him back onside, or else he is only onside until the slightest chink opens then he's out like a ferret.

You mean we can swap him for Park?

[fakeyank]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/02/arsenal-arsene-wenger-sean-ingle

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/02/arsenal-arsene-wenger-sean-ingle

Lazy journalism...shooting fish in a barrel

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhzuhgmIAAA0uKA.jpg

The date. :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

Specialist in failure tbf.

[Power n Glory]

How is he able to rest easy when Jose is mocking him like that? A decade without a trophy should really sting his ego. If he decides to walk away from Arsenal after this contract this will haunt him. He’d have to go to an oil rich club to put any doubts about his managerial skills to rest. This isn’t the way to end things. I would have thought this season he’d have gone all out to win the league.

[fakeyank]

How is he able to rest easy when Jose is mocking him like that? A decade without a trophy should really sting his ego. If he decides to walk away from Arsenal after this contract this will haunt him. He’d have to go to an oil rich club to put any doubts about his managerial skills to rest. This isn’t the way to end things. I would have thought this season he’d have gone all out to win the league.

We are winning the financial fair play league by a mile. That counts! :trophy:

[Özim]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhzuhgmIAAA0uKA.jpg

The date. :lol:

Yeah he's said that several times over the years, but has never stood by it. Why say it in the 1st place if you don't.

[Globalgunner]

Truly the man is beyond caring. He only cares about keeping his job and doing the barest minimum to do it. Everything that comes out of his mouth nowadays is a big scam. He will be telling us now how he will fight to the last to win the Pl and CL. Even he knows that there's not a snowflakes chance in hell of either happening. FA cup. We`ll probably lose in the semis against one of the Sheffield teams

[Maestro]

I want the dude gone, but gosh some of the negativity and vengeance being meted out to wenget on here is something truly to behold!

We probably owe our future survival as a modern day football club to this man's vision. He was our Cryuff, and gave us some of our most glorious moments and the privilege to have some of the world's best players in our former great teams.

I just think time and the times have finally caught up with him especially on his pitch performance. So I hope he goes with dignity, and we are lucky enough to get an able replacement.........., doesn't bear thinking about. I think he's seriously thinking about walking away, got a funny feeling he will.

[Niall_Quinn]

Jeez, let's hope we don't lose to Everton or people will want him dead. I'll tell you who has collapsed - half the fans.

[Maestro]

Jeez, let's hope we don't lose to Everton or people will want him dead. I'll tell you who has collapsed - half the fans.

Really worried for Wenger over the coming run we have. Any big defeats and he's mince meat, I can hear the knives being sharpened as we speak :threaten: ...fans and hacks alike

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

The decision not to spend in January was utterly utterly ridiculous and it took him back to the Nutty Professor days.

But this season has been such an improvement. Don't know what to think anymore.

[fakeyank]

I want the dude gone, but gosh some of the negativity and vengeance being meted out to wenget on here is something truly to behold!

We probably owe our future survival as a modern day football club to this man's vision. He was our Cryuff, and gave us some of our most glorious moments and the privilege to have some of the world's best players in our former great teams.

I just think time and the times have finally caught up with him especially on his pitch performance. So I hope he goes with dignity, and we are lucky enough to get an able replacement.........., doesn't bear thinking about. I think he's seriously thinking about walking away, got a funny feeling he will.

Unfortunately everything good he did for us footballistically, was in the past... and I am not talking recent past. More like a decade..

My goodwill for what he did Before Christ ran out in 2009 tbh... more and more people are coming to their senses that he is not the right man to lead us forward.

[Maestro]

he needs to double his security

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

to be fair the only way to get an accurate report on what wenger says is the videos of the interviews, all media tends to twist his words....don't get me wrong they do this with every manager, they read between the lines to promote something essentially mundane as a subject of interest.
A lot of what we assume about Wenger's decision making is purely that assumption, we assumed before today that Arsenal and Wenger made clowns of themselves over their approach for Luis Suarez. When in fact what transpired is that the club met the minimum release fee clause and were no way disrespectful to Liverpool football club and it turns out that they were disrespectful to us.
I think a lot of back seat drivers tend to think they know better than him about who he should sign and you look in retrospect about a lot of the players the media recommends to Wenger and the player's career is in the toilet.
A lot of my criticism of Wenger comes from being hot headed, i was so frustrated and exasperated with what had happened at Stoke.....because i believed the difference between getting something and defeat was starting with Arteta instead of Flamini and not playing Ox from the beginning. But i think from a period of reflection, in the cold light of day i don't think he's as stupid or oblivious as people seem to think he is.....the media and to extent we like to fill in the blanks with this man because he's not an open individual.
Nine years without a trophy is too long,and a lot of the responsibility for this falls on Wenger's shoulders, and i think the main reason we are frustrated with the man is because few or no other managers would have consistently kept us in the top four in the way he has done and if he is capable of that, why seemingly is he incapable of even some small silverware.
I honestly believe even if we'd won the odd fa cup or league cup between 2005 and today i don't think there would be as much unrest as there is amongst the fans.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Definitely not.


Only situation in which I would support the move is if only we had someone better than him lined up already to replace him.

[fakeyank]

What exactly do you mean, when you say better than him? Is it based on tactics? Is it better football? Is it a knack of being a champion in the transfer market? Is it about being a manager who can fire up his squad for big games? If those are some of the criteria in saying 'better than him', then there are quite a few who are better than him.

I feel that quite a few are scared of change, just because they are scared of change. At this point, I'd take a promising young manager over Wenger any day! We are stagnant year after year... every season has the exact same script- either we are close to the leaders and fold around March/April OR we are fighting to seal 4th place. Either way, what we are getting is 4th place. What is happening now has been predicted by the 'realists' back in October/November!!

Example of conversation by people who want Wenger to stay or are scared for him to leave, at different points of the season:

"I didnt know the transfer window ended in July. Give him till the end of the window before we judge him" (At a time when our transfers should be almost wrapped up and we are still in waiting period)

"We are 2 points behind Chelsea (insert any other team name) and we do not have billions to spend" (when we lose to a big team... again!)

"We are still in the CL 2nd round, in the FA cup and are just 3 points behind the leaders.. if you'd have given this to me at the start of the season, I'd have bitten your hand off" (Most likely after a pummeling in the 2nd round of CL, followed by a draw in a must win game or by a massacre by another team i.e. 8-2, 6-3, 5-1)

"Give him till the end of the season before we judge him" (We are out of the PL race and CL but still in with a shout with the FA Cup)

"Next season, our players will have gained one more year experience. Ozil will become a monster and coupled by the striker, defender that we are going to sign, we will be up there with the best. Lets see how AW does in the transfer window. (After another 4th place trophy finish)

Go back to the beginning and start this shit charade again... thats the life of a gooner!

[Özim]

Can't believe so many people still want him here having witnessed what we have in the last 9 years, losing pretty much every big game that really mattered. How people still believe in this man after so long I'll never know, seems he can go on forever settling for 4th place without ever losing their support.

[Özim]

Definitely not.


Only situation in which I would support the move is if only we had someone better than him lined up already to replace him.

You'll never know if they are better until you give them a chance, Wenger was a nobody when he arrived after all. If he stays on all we have to look forward to is our annual battle for 4th place, I don't see the enjoyment myself, but each to their own I guess.

[fakeyank]

You'll never know if they are better until you give them a chance, Wenger was a nobody when he arrived after all. If he stays on all we have to look forward to is our annual battle for 4th place, I don't see the enjoyment myself, but each to their own I guess.

:gp:

Pretty much sums it up. We took a gamble on Wenger.. surely there are enough promising managers to at least look at!

[Letters]

Unfortunately everything good he did for us footballistically, was in the past... and I am not talking recent past. More like a decade..

My goodwill for what he did Before Christ ran out in 2009 tbh... more and more people are coming to their senses that he is not the right man to lead us forward.
Fine, but there's no need for the hatred and venom you show towards him.
The new stadium, the amazing football we saw (admittedly a while ago now) and the financial stability which has secured our future are all down to him.
He has his flaws and it's looking increasingly unlikely we'll win trophies under him again but he's the reason our expectations are so high and the reason we have any chance of competing in the modern game.

[fakeyank]

Fine, but there's no need for the hatred and venom you show towards him.
The new stadium, the amazing football we saw (admittedly a while ago now) and the financial stability which has secured our future are all down to him.
He has his flaws and it's looking increasingly unlikely we'll win trophies under him again but he's the reason our expectations are so high and the reason we have any chance of competing in the modern game.

I think I have reduced my 'hate speech' towards him considerably (And I'm wrong whenever I do cross the line). I'm frankly even tired of abusing him.. I just want him gone.

As for 'he being the reason for us having high expectations', I dont agree with that. From the time I had started following Arsenal (early nineties), I could recall always thinking that we always stood a chance at winning something. I knew that the team performed to the best of its abilities and we more than likely did our best to have a good football team. The last 7-8 years, I havent felt that unfortunately. I do not think we as a football club have done its most at being the best. And please, do not mistaken this for just transfers, we have IMO not done the best with the players, tactics, substitutions etc.. If I add transfer dealings into the mix, then it is game, set and match tbh!

[Letters]

Can't believe so many people still want him here having witnessed what we have in the last 9 years, losing pretty much every big game that really mattered. How people still believe in this man after so long I'll never know, seems he can go on forever settling for 4th place without ever losing their support.

Personally I want to see how this season pans out. It is looking wearyingly predictable but there's a way to go yet, we're still in the FA Cup and good results in our horrible run (unlikely, I know) and we'll be right in the mix. This thread wouldn't even exist had we won on Saturday, had we done so we'd be a point off the top. OK, we lost, but that one result shouldn't be the difference between wanting him sacked or not.

Another collapse and another season without silverware and scraping into 4th place, having shown so much promise, and I won't be defending him.

Edit: I haven't voted in this poll btw.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I think the reason this thread exists and people want him gone is attributed to the manner in which we lost.

Had the team battled hard and fought for 90 mins but come undone and we'd lost I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.

It's the fact that the team, after having 2 days off it should be noted, came to the game with nothing about them. No fight, no desire, no strength, seemingly like they had no reason to win.

So it's sort of understandable that this question has come about.
Wenger got the team selection wrong - again. He didn't motivate his players it would seem - again. He didn't react to anything happening on the pitch and made his changes too late at 70 odd mins - again.

I hate to say it, but in the last few weeks it looks like the collapse is on - again.

Out of all comps by the end of March with a fight for 4th place - again.

We've been there, done that just once too often. It looked like things were going to be different this year, after signing Ozil and riding the top slot for months the expectation was high and fans belief was lifted only for it to seemingly look like it's all going to come crashing down - again.

Add to that the January transfer window came round and when we needed to strengthen our injured and depleted squad, we signed a crocked 31 year old who is pretty much a nobody in recent years. We just didn't do what was necessary -again.

I just don't think I or most other fans can take this Groundhog Day merry go round anymore.

There comes a point where you have to get off the ride, or you're just gonna end up being sick.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I will openly admit to not wanting to see him fired and even wanting him to continue, but I am increasingly losing objective ground on which to argue upon, which is frustrating to say the least. Wenger needs to be careful about his actions more so than ever as he has lost an enormous amount of support.

I've said before that I can't shake the feeling that Wenger just doesn't have the appetite to operate as a manager in the perversion of a modern game we are presented with....but he is too far ingrained into the club and football to walk away from it. That said I'm sure we would all like to see him go through the front door and not the back one should we part company. It will leave a bitter taste if his departure is acrimonious and steeped in indignation.

My hope is that as we strengthen as a business and club his taste for truly competing is augmented but he is quickly running out of rope and half the fans in truth lost patience some time ago....they only kept it schtum so as to not look churlish whilst we were doing well for so long. I don't think it is necessary to dismiss all discontent as 'knee jerk', because in truth many have felt that way for a long while. Neither does the discontent not being 'knee jerk' alone, mean it is objective or valid, but there is definitely many reasons to argue this is the end of the line....even if I myself don't want it to be.

I also come back to Wenger's quote in the summer about being well placed to truly compete within the next '2-3 years'. At the time I was quite concerned to hear such a thing and it intermittently haunts me. I do think the flogging of tomorrow needs to cease or at least ostensibly managed better.

One thing I do however have deep sympathy with Wenger for is the Suarez case. He's not faultless but Henry's revelations are unbelievable and he and his club should absolutely be taken to the cleaners over it. They categorically denied there being such a clause in the summer, made it look like the bitey racist was dizzy/lying, which was a cheap and easy move to make and actually it turns out they out-rightly flipped the bird sign to the clause all together...AND THEY'VE GOT AWAY WITH IT.

Absolutely unbe-fuhkin-lievable.

[fakeyank]

I think the reason this thread exists and people want him gone is attributed to the manner in which we lost.

Had the team battled hard and fought for 90 mins but come undone and we'd lost I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.

It's the fact that the team, after having 2 days off it should be noted, came to the game with nothing about them. No fight, no desire, no strength, seemingly like they had no reason to win.

So it's sort of understandable that this question has come about.


Pretty much sums it up for me. I remember when we had moved to the Emirates, we played a game against West Spam and we battered their goal for 89 minutes but couldnt score. They scored from a fluke chance of theirs and we lost... I was pissed at the result but not at the players.. they tried, they gave a fuck but shit happens. Chelsea had 35 odd shots against Spammers but they drew 0-0. Their players tried... can we say the same about this Arsenal team or recent years Arsenal teams? Hell no.

Most games, they come only ready to play for 45 minutes. If the manager who is being paid 7 million quid a year, cannot motivate his players, then its time for him to say goodbye! I really really hope that we dont give him a new contract.. it would be insanity to see him do the same shit AGAIN!

[Globalgunner]

What people seem not to see. is that the players themselves are demotivated. Most of them like Cazorla, Pods, Merts, Ozil, have played for other managers in winning teams, for club and country. They know what works. Unlike, Wilshire, Gibbs who have never known another manager. The pros know that this shit style of ours does NOT work against the best teams. It just doesnt. I am sure some have made a few tentative suggestions but been shot down and told, this is how we play. So in that case the seasoned ones will say. Fuck it, Ill play for the salary then. Hence the insipid performances. Wenger wont change, the results wont change. The best players will leave and we will give Wenger a new contract to start again.

We have seen this before time and time again, " I love Wenger, hes a great man, a great manager, but I had to leave to win things". They all say this but people still make up shit to prove otherwise...He had no money, He was waiting to pay off the debt (not even half paid btw). The other clubs refused to sell him the players he needed, He was unlucky with injuries, The axis of evil empires are doing their darndest to stop him winning.

All nonsense and in the main you people are suffering from battered wife syndrome. " I cant leave him, he really loves me, hes so loving when hes sober, Hes under lots of pressure, Its really my fault, If he leaves me, who else will love me, the next guy could be even worse".

[Letters]

Nonsense?
So the stadium move has in no way affected our dealings in the transfer market?
Obviously the thing about an 'axis of evil' is nonsense, there's no 'conspiracy', but if you mean the billionaire-fuelled clubs then are you seriously suggesting their distortion and inflation of the transfer market and ability to build huge squads which make them immune to injuries are not a big factor in our failure to win trophies?

It's possible that another manager would come in and do better but you're fooling yourself if you think someone else will come in and we'll sweep all before us. Whoever our manager is the billionaires will still be there and those clubs are incredibly difficult to compete with.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

FA cup and 3rd would be a successful season.

Anything less and you'd have to call it a failure after the start we had.

[Globalgunner]

Nonsense?
So the stadium move has in no way affected our dealings in the transfer market?
Obviously the thing about an 'axis of evil' is nonsense, there's no 'conspiracy', but if you mean the billionaire-fuelled clubs then are you seriously suggesting their distortion and inflation of the transfer market and ability to build huge squads which make them immune to injuries are not a big factor in our failure to win trophies?

It's possible that another manager would come in and do better but you're fooling yourself if you think someone else will come in and we'll sweep all before us. Whoever our manager is the billionaires will still be there and those clubs are incredibly difficult to compete with.

In the era of the billionaire clubs haven't Wigan and Swansea win cups, or in their case it's just flukes. Wenger has had 9x4 opportunities to win a fluke trophy and flunked. The only nonsense is the alternative reality you and the Wengerites have created for yourselves. He isn't going to win anything in the next 15 years that is a certainty. Heck we can't even win the Emirates cup anymore

[Letters]

Yes. Wigan won a cup and then went down. :partytime:
I've said numerous times that our failure to win any trophies at all is damning. But there's no doubt the billionaire-fuelled juggernauts make it harder than it used to be.
Of course there will be exceptions but if you look at who won those 9x4 trophies you won't fine too many.

[Globalgunner]

Yes. Wigan won a cup and then went down. :partytime:
I've said numerous times that our failure to win any trophies at all is damning. But there's no doubt the billionaire-fuelled juggernauts make it harder than it used to be.
Of course there will be exceptions but if you look at who won those 9x4 trophies you won't fine too many.

they went down, what does that prove or how is it even relevant. Swansea are struggling. its obvious that the reason they struggle is playing in Europe. Sunderland will be in the Europa next season, they may go down this season.

All it proves is that you dont need money to win a cup. You can however be lucky. Wengers teams are neither good enough or lucky enough. Another 10 years from now, it will not have changed. IMO

[Globalgunner]

Yes. Wigan won a cup and then went down. :partytime:
I've said numerous times that our failure to win any trophies at all is damning. But there's no doubt the billionaire-fuelled juggernauts make it harder than it used to be.
Of course there will be exceptions but if you look at who won those 9x4 trophies you won't fine too many.

they went down, what does that prove or how is it even relevant. Swansea are struggling. its obvious that the reason they struggle is playing in Europe. Sunderland will be in the Europa next season, they may go down this season.

All it proves is that you dont need money to win a cup. You can however be lucky. Wengers teams are neither good enough or lucky enough. Another 10 years from now, it will not have changed. IMO

[LDG]

Hasn't been too bad this year.

We can certainly build on these foundations.

Pissed off we didn't get a striker in January, but then again, it's pointless wasting 20mil + on someone who isn't what you really wanted.

Seems obvious we went all out for Suarez, and got fucked over, but that's footy for you, and I don't blame Wenger for holding onto the cash if he couldn't get the man he wanted.

I've come to the conclusion that the same frustrations will always prevelent with AW, as he's a stubborn old cunt. But he's our stubborn old cunt, and I still think he's one of the best managers out there, and until someone can come up with a better choice of coach, who isn't reliant on mega money to put himself on "the best" list, we'd be stupid to get rid.

[Xhaka Can’t]

98

It's official. We've gone off the rails.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

FA cup and 3rd would be a successful season.

Anything less and you'd have to call it a failure after the start we had.
That's about the size of it.

Although I would also say finishing 4th and winning the FA cup was a successful season but finishing any lower than that is rather split.

[Marc Overmars]

I'd be delighted with a cup win and 3rd. 4th would be a little disappointing because it means Liverpool would be above us. At least if we're 3rd we have the consolation prize of being the best of the rest, presuming the moneybags finish top 2.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

FA cup and 3rd would be a successful season.

Anything less and you'd have to call it a failure after the start we had.

I agree if we achieve both of these, i would be more than happy for AW to sign a new contract

[Power n Glory]

What's the odds on Wenger fielding a very weak team for the FA Cup but full strength in the Champions League? Was just reading Le Grove and he suggested this is what Wenger might do when looking into his recent press comments.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

That's about the size of it.

Although I would also say finishing 4th and winning the FA cup was a successful season but finishing any lower than that is rather split.

Finishing 4th would mean another summer of waiting until the end to sign players and rushing about to complete deals due to the qualifier.

No thanks.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Hasn't been too bad this year.

We can certainly build on these foundations.

Pissed off we didn't get a striker in January, but then again, it's pointless wasting 20mil + on someone who isn't what you really wanted.

Seems obvious we went all out for Suarez, and got fucked over, but that's footy for you, and I don't blame Wenger for holding onto the cash if he couldn't get the man he wanted.

I've come to the conclusion that the same frustrations will always prevelent with AW, as he's a stubborn old cunt. But he's our stubborn old cunt, and I still think he's one of the best managers out there, and until someone can come up with a better choice of coach, who isn't reliant on mega money to put himself on "the best" list, we'd be stupid to get rid.

Well all those years ago we were told that summer 2014 would be the time we would start competing again. We're pretty close to that now. The Ozil signing made sure we cemented top 4 and to the club's surprise, we began competing a year sooner than planned. Maybe that explains Wenger's stubbornness and lack of transfer activity in the January window? Doesn't want to splash and pay over the odds when he knows he has a mammoth transfer pot in the summer? Who knows.

And if he decides to leave then he's leaving us in a pretty good place. Mertesacker, Rosicky and judging from reports today, Ramsey too, have all penned new deals. We have a solid defensive unit, an abundance of quality midfielders. We have a great stadium + training facilities. Wenger said a few years ago that when he would leave Arsenal he would leave it in a brilliant position for the new manager.

If he leaves, I think it's fair to say he's done that. He has left his legacy.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

What's the odds on Wenger fielding a very weak team for the FA Cup but full strength in the Champions League? Was just reading Le Grove and he suggested this is what Wenger might do when looking into his recent press comments.

I'd be very surprised if we play a side much different to what we have seen in the FA Cup already, against Premier League teams.

[selassie]

Well all those years ago we were told that summer 2014 would be the time we would start competing again. We're pretty close to that now. The Ozil signing made sure we cemented top 4 and to the club's surprise, we began competing a year sooner than planned. Maybe that explains Wenger's stubbornness and lack of transfer activity in the January window? Doesn't want to splash and pay over the odds when he knows he has a mammoth transfer pot in the summer? Who knows.

And if he decides to leave then he's leaving us in a pretty good place. Mertesacker, Rosicky and judging from reports today, Ramsey too, have all penned new deals. We have a solid defensive unit, an abundance of quality midfielders. We have a great stadium + training facilities. Wenger said a few years ago that when he would leave Arsenal he would leave it in a brilliant position for the new manager.

If he leaves, I think it's fair to say he's done that. He has left his legacy.

Yeah I agree with that. He's left the squad in a pretty healthy state, it needs investment, but not major investment, certain areas of the squad are in pretty good shape.

I personally want Arsene to step down now, I don't believe he has it in him to move us up a gear. I believe he's too "wedded" in his principles and not flexible enough or pragmatic enough to move us forward.

We need someone progressive, someone who is willing to take a chance and invest in the squad in the right areas, somebody who has new and inventive ideas.

Thanks Arsene, but your time is done, let someone else have a crack.

Edited to add: I think the club and to a lesser degree Arsene have been selling us the dream/future for far too long. I accept that we may have had financial restrictions placed on us post stadium move and accept we are competiting with a couple of clubs with unlimited budgets, but I won't accept the flawed player recruitment policy our club operates. IMO, Wenger doesn't want to pay over the odds period, he has his valuations and that's that. If anything this summers transfer market will be more difficult than any of the recent years as it's World Cup year, Prices inflate etc.

[Kano]

and until someone can come up with a better choice of coach, who isn't reliant on mega money to put himself on "the best" list, we'd be stupid to get rid.
with wenger delaying the signing of his contract later than ever, not winning anything could mean he calls it a day with a fantastic set-up for the next man to build on.

klopp could be a realistic option this summer. he might be at the realisation that he's done all he can with dortmund who now stand no chance against Bayern in the league and will always lose their best players to them. CL success only comes round once in a while. he's done wonders at that club on a small budget, it's a similar type of league, he's young and hungry, can develop players, attract stars and plays great football. none of the other teams in the prem would want him as they're all set with managers. he signed a new contract last year until 2018 but we all know they can be broken quite easily.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Yeah I agree with that. He's left the squad in a pretty healthy state, it needs investment, but not major investment, certain areas of the squad are in pretty good shape.

I personally want Arsene to step down now, I don't believe he has it in him to move us up a gear. I believe he's too "wedded" in his principles and not flexible enough or pragmatic enough to move us forward.

We need someone progressive, someone who is willing to take a chance and invest in the squad in the right areas, somebody who has new and inventive ideas.

Thanks Arsene, but your time is done, let someone else have a crack.

Edited to add: I think the club and to a lesser degree Arsene have been selling us the dream/future for far too long. I accept that we may have had financial restrictions placed on us post stadium move and accept we are competiting with a couple of clubs with unlimited budgets, but I won't accept the flawed player recruitment policy our club operates. IMO, Wenger doesn't want to pay over the odds period, he has his valuations and that's that. If anything this summers transfer market will be more difficult than any of the recent years as it's World Cup year, Prices inflate etc.

Seeing Man Utd falter is also good for us because Gazidis will not pick someone incompetent for the job. He'll go for a big name knowing there's too much at stake.

And having a manager that is tactically naive can also be seen as a bonus. When the new manager comes in he can instantly improve us tactically which will hopefully get 10-15% more out of the players and the system. Perhaps we won't play the same bloody formation every stadium we go to.

I wanted Wenger gone at the beginning of the season but I just don't know anymore. We started off so well and if we tweak one or two things, there's no reason why we can't challenge next season with this lunatic in charge. Changing managers could work out well or it could be a disaster. Sometimes you find that when you give up, you do it a time when you were just about to succeed.

This season has been such a head fuck and I seriously don't know whether I want him to stay or go.

[saintnickle]

Well all those years ago we were told that summer 2014 would be the time we would start competing again. We're pretty close to that now. The Ozil signing made sure we cemented top 4 and to the club's surprise, we began competing a year sooner than planned. Maybe that explains Wenger's stubbornness and lack of transfer activity in the January window? Doesn't want to splash and pay over the odds when he knows he has a mammoth transfer pot in the summer? Who knows.

And if he decides to leave then he's leaving us in a pretty good place. Mertesacker, Rosicky and judging from reports today, Ramsey too, have all penned new deals. We have a solid defensive unit, an abundance of quality midfielders. We have a great stadium + training facilities. Wenger said a few years ago that when he would leave Arsenal he would leave it in a brilliant position for the new manager.

If he leaves, I think it's fair to say he's done that. He has left his legacy.

""Maybe that explains Wenger's stubbornness and lack of transfer activity in the January window? Doesn't want to splash and pay over the odds when he knows he has a mammoth transfer pot in the summer? Who knows.""

Yes why go all out to win the league title this season when we are so close,when we can have a real go next year.Yawn.

[AFC Leveller]

We've played our best (or near enough) 11 in the cup this season so i dont think he'll send out some rookies now that we're a couple of games away from the final.

Im confident i have to say, i think Everton will be a tough team but being at home will be a factor, as well as the added confidence of beating Liverpool and Spuds.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

""Maybe that explains Wenger's stubbornness and lack of transfer activity in the January window? Doesn't want to splash and pay over the odds when he knows he has a mammoth transfer pot in the summer? Who knows.""

Yes why go all out to win the league title this season when we are so close,when we can have a real go next year.Yawn.

Oh shut up you tit. I was offering both sides of an argument. You fail to offer one. #wanker

[LDG]

:haha:

[saintnickle]

Oh shut up you tit. I was offering both sides of an argument. You fail to offer one. #wanker

Your offering an excuse for wenger not spending in the january window and you call me a tit???Bellend

[Özim]

IMO if you want a manager that doesn't spend huge amounts and will get you 4th place, Wenger is your man. If you want a manager who wins and who's primary goal is to win and who will do what it takes to do so, he's not.

Kinda depends which side of the fence you're on, personally I don't get much pleasure from 4th place and CL qualification simply because IMO it's a bit of a farce to have 4 teams from one country in Europe's premier competition and because we don't even have an outside chance of success due to the mentality manager, so I'd take a chance and try something else.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Your offering an excuse for wenger not spending in the january window and you call me a tit???Bellend

Yes because it's called being reasonable based on the start we have had this season you two bob cunt.

[Chippy]

[QUOTE=She Wore A Red Ribbon;376279]FA cup and 3rd would be a successful season.

I would settle for that right now. :dancingman:

I have noticed that since people have calmed down since the weekend, the poll is levelling out.

I was a bit harsh on Wenger over the weekend, but sometimes his team selection wears me down!

I for one would not like to see Wenger leave under a dark cloud. If we manage third and win the FA Cup, he could leave with his head held high. Everyone's a winner! :d

[Niall_Quinn]

What's the odds on Wenger fielding a very weak team for the FA Cup but full strength in the Champions League? Was just reading Le Grove and he suggested this is what Wenger might do when looking into his recent press comments.

Very high to certain. Doubt it's only Wenger who would prioritise that way. Ask any of the players which game they'd rather play in. Maybe Jenks would say the FA Cup.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well all those years ago we were told that summer 2014 would be the time we would start competing again. We're pretty close to that now. The Ozil signing made sure we cemented top 4 and to the club's surprise, we began competing a year sooner than planned. Maybe that explains Wenger's stubbornness and lack of transfer activity in the January window? Doesn't want to splash and pay over the odds when he knows he has a mammoth transfer pot in the summer? Who knows.

And if he decides to leave then he's leaving us in a pretty good place. Mertesacker, Rosicky and judging from reports today, Ramsey too, have all penned new deals. We have a solid defensive unit, an abundance of quality midfielders. We have a great stadium + training facilities. Wenger said a few years ago that when he would leave Arsenal he would leave it in a brilliant position for the new manager.

If he leaves, I think it's fair to say he's done that. He has left his legacy.

Terrible post. Too positive. Too dependent on the facts. All that shit is nothing compared to the Stoke result. Wenger out.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Terrible post. Too positive. Too dependent on the facts. All that shit is nothing compared to the Stoke result. Wenger out.

Civil war in Ukraine.

Wenger out!

[Özim]

Very high to certain. Doubt it's only Wenger who would prioritise that way. Ask any of the players which game they'd rather play in. Maybe Jenks would say the FA Cup.

Depends how much you value success I guess, putting your best team out in a tie that's all but gone in a competition you haven't a hope of winning could hardly be called a wise move.

Better to ask players if they would rather play and win the FA Cup game and then play the CL game and lose or not play and potentially lose the FA Cup game and then play and lose in the CL.

We're not gonna go through against Bayern and even if by some miracle Moses showed up parted their defence 3 times and earned us a 3 goal win, we still wouldn't win the competition, as there's several better sides still in it.

The FA Cup still has one better side in it, however in a one off game in a neutral venue I guess it's possible we could upset the odds (I doubt it very much looking at our big match mentality but hey) however unlikely.

[Niall_Quinn]

Depends how much you value success I guess, putting your best team out in a tie that's all but gone in a competition you haven't a hope of winning could hardly be called a wise move.

Better to ask players if they would rather play and win the FA Cup game and then play the CL game and lose or not play and potentially lose the FA Cup game and then play and lose in the CL.

We're not gonna go through against Bayern and even if by some miracle Moses showed up parted their defence 3 times and earned us a 3 goal win, we still wouldn't win the competition, as there's several better sides still in it.

The FA Cup still has one better side in it, however in a one off game in a neutral venue I guess it's possible we could upset the odds (I doubt it very much looking at our big match mentality but hey) however unlikely.

We could get an unbiased ref. Bayern could have Robben sent off for all his diving and antics. Much could happen. It's way past time something went our way.

As for the FA Cup - it's utterly worthless. Not even a shadow of the competition it used to be. It'd be a 5 minute wonder if we won it,

[Özim]

We could get an unbiased ref. Bayern could have Robben sent off for all his diving and antics. Much could happen. It's way past time something went our way.

As for the FA Cup - it's utterly worthless. Not even a shadow of the competition it used to be. It'd be a 5 minute wonder if we won it,

Even with that in mind, I can see us failing to convert, we've got a proven track record unfortunately, last 16 is our limit nowadays. The CL is a step too far for us, we're not good enough to win it, nor do we play the type of game where we could get "lucky".

I disagree, I think you've bought into the hype here, every team that wins the FA Cup looks elated to have won it, it's still a great competition, it's just you've forgotten as it's a long time since we've been serious contenders.

[Marc Overmars]

As for the FA Cup - it's utterly worthless. Not even a shadow of the competition it used to be. It'd be a 5 minute wonder if we won it,

Not for me.

This club has won nothing for the best part of a decade. The team hasn't experienced anything together apart from stumbling into 4th every year and falling on their arses whenever there is a sniff of success. It would mean a heck of a lot to everyone associated with the club if we won it and finally lifted that burden.

[fakeyank]

Not for me.

This club has won nothing for the best part of a decade. The team hasn't experienced anything together apart from stumbling into 4th every year and falling on their arses whenever there is a sniff of success. It would mean a heck of a lot to everyone associated with the club if we won it and finally lifted that burden.

Frankly speaking, I'd even take the carling cup now :(

[Power n Glory]

Not for me.

This club has won nothing for the best part of a decade. The team hasn't experienced anything together apart from stumbling into 4th every year and falling on their arses whenever there is a sniff of success. It would mean a heck of a lot to everyone associated with the club if we won it and finally lifted that burden.

That's how I feel now that the league is out of reach. I think a lot of fans may feel that way as seen with some of the comments on here. I think it would tick a lot of people off he'd save certain players for the CL game and rested them for the FA Cup but we go out of both competitions. It would be a bitterly disappointing end to the season.

[Letters]

Not for me.

This club has won nothing for the best part of a decade. The team hasn't experienced anything together apart from stumbling into 4th every year and falling on their arses whenever there is a sniff of success. It would mean a heck of a lot to everyone associated with the club if we won it and finally lifted that burden.
That :good:

[PGFC]

Not for me.

This club has won nothing for the best part of a decade. The team hasn't experienced anything together apart from stumbling into 4th every year and falling on their arses whenever there is a sniff of success. It would mean a heck of a lot to everyone associated with the club if we won it and finally lifted that burden.


That :good:

And this :good:

[selassie]

Not for me.

This club has won nothing for the best part of a decade. The team hasn't experienced anything together apart from stumbling into 4th every year and falling on their arses whenever there is a sniff of success. It would mean a heck of a lot to everyone associated with the club if we won it and finally lifted that burden.

This

[Niall_Quinn]

The FA Cup of old, competed for by English, Scots, Irish and Welsh, had a genuine prestige. This modern version, competed for by Spaniards, French and Nigerians, not so much. Doubt half the players would be bothered about it beyond the day itself. Honestly, if grabbing a second rate trophy is enough for some to say keep Wenger in his job, but keeping us on the European stage in a genuinely prestigious tournament is considered failure then there's a weird logic going on. Getting to the final of the CL would be a much bigger achievement than winning the FA Cup. I think winning the latter wouldn't signify much at all. A bit of luck and we could win it this year. What does emulating Wigan tell us though? Anything of value? If we want to see real progress then we have to aim for something bigger than that. Of course great if we win it, but for me I'll be asking what else did we do that showed we took a step forward. I think we have taken a big step forward this year anyway. Having a defence after years of being without is proper advancement. Get a few players in this summer and I think we can measure our ambitions to the size of this club. Sure, why not, pick up the FA Cup while we are at it. I won't complain.

[selassie]

Seeing Man Utd falter is also good for us because Gazidis will not pick someone incompetent for the job. He'll go for a big name knowing there's too much at stake.

And having a manager that is tactically naive can also be seen as a bonus. When the new manager comes in he can instantly improve us tactically which will hopefully get 10-15% more out of the players and the system. Perhaps we won't play the same bloody formation every stadium we go to.

I wanted Wenger gone at the beginning of the season but I just don't know anymore. We started off so well and if we tweak one or two things, there's no reason why we can't challenge next season with this lunatic in charge. Changing managers could work out well or it could be a disaster. Sometimes you find that when you give up, you do it a time when you were just about to succeed.

This season has been such a head fuck and I seriously don't know whether I want him to stay or go.

I am pretty sure Gazidis will let Arsene handpick his successor...which is pretty much what United did with Fergie picking Moyes. I am not so sure I would be happy for Arsene to handpick his successor, I have a feeling he would put his "principles" first.

Given what we are seeing this season I don't see what Arsene can give to this team anymore, the same flaws are rearing there head again for me, I'll be honest I have had enough, I am done with it. I personally don't feel he should be given time, time for what? he won't change, the January window was proof in itself that he's stuck in his old ways. IMHO the Ozil signing in the Summer pretty much saved him, there was mutiny in the camp prior to that signing because quite frankly he made an absolute mess of last summer's Window, there was 70million sitting in the bank and he/we couldn't complete any deals.

Of course there looks to have been progress of sorts this season...but given our recent wobbles, we sit 6 points ahead of 5th place with 3 extremely difficult games coming up....progress really?

[Niall_Quinn]

Even with that in mind, I can see us failing to convert, we've got a proven track record unfortunately, last 16 is our limit nowadays. The CL is a step too far for us, we're not good enough to win it, nor do we play the type of game where we could get "lucky".

I disagree, I think you've bought into the hype here, every team that wins the FA Cup looks elated to have won it, it's still a great competition, it's just you've forgotten as it's a long time since we've been serious contenders.

On the contrary, I remember very well what the FA Cup used to be. That's why I don't have much time for the modern day parody.

[Niall_Quinn]

I am pretty sure Gazidis will let Arsene handpick his successor which is pretty much what United did with Fergie letting him pick Moyes. I am not so sure I would be happy for Arsene to handpick his successor because I have a feeling he would put his "principles" first.

Given what we are seeing this season I only don't see what Arsene can give to this team anymore, the same flaws are rearing there head again for me, I'll be honest I have had enough, I am done with it. I personally don't feel he should be given time, time for what? he won't change, the January window was proof in itself that he's stuck in his old ways. IMHO the Ozil signing in the Summer pretty much saved him, there was mutiny in the camp prior to that signing because quite frankly he made an absolute mess of the last summer's Window, he 70million sitting in the bank and couldn't complete any deals.

Of course there looks to have been progress of sorts this season but given our recent wobbles, we sit 6 points ahead of 5th place with 3 extremely difficult games coming up.

We have Walcott and Ramsey, our two most improved players, out with long term injuries. We don't have the money to have another 2 Walcotts and another 2 Ramseys on the bench. Take 3xToure and 3xAguero out of City long term, Suarez and Gerard out of Liverpool, 3xHazard and ... (just how the hell are those fuckers top anyway?) and problems would be rearing for those clubs too. Fortunately the extent of our current problem is being 4 points off the lead instead of 14 as usual. Could we be four points closer if we'd had our best team on the pitch for any significant duration? It's not unreasonable to suggest yes.

What we're saying is, there have been definite signs of improvement. The defence is better beyond all recognition. The goalkeeper has come on brilliantly. Some of our "project" players are starting to finally come though, Walcott, Ramsey, Ox. We have signed one of the best players in the world (and even though he's tailed off in his first season in a 100mph with no rest kickabout league he's class and it will surface), we have led the way most of the way, we are still in with a shout at the top, took it to Bayern and outplayed them until fate intervened, we have announced massive new deals that open up the door to some serious reinforcements. In conclusion - sack the manager, he has nothing to offer.

[Özim]

The FA Cup of old, competed for by English, Scots, Irish and Welsh, had a genuine prestige. This modern version, competed for by Spaniards, French and Nigerians, not so much. Doubt half the players would be bothered about it beyond the day itself. Honestly, if grabbing a second rate trophy is enough for some to say keep Wenger in his job, but keeping us on the European stage in a genuinely prestigious tournament is considered failure then there's a weird logic going on. Getting to the final of the CL would be a much bigger achievement than winning the FA Cup. I think winning the latter wouldn't signify much at all. A bit of luck and we could win it this year. What does emulating Wigan tell us though? Anything of value? If we want to see real progress then we have to aim for something bigger than that. Of course great if we win it, but for me I'll be asking what else did we do that showed we took a step forward. I think we have taken a big step forward this year anyway. Having a defence after years of being without is proper advancement. Get a few players in this summer and I think we can measure our ambitions to the size of this club. Sure, why not, pick up the FA Cup while we are at it. I won't complain.

Again I disagree, it's not second rate and what it would prove is that we're actually able to take that final step and convert opportunities into trophies, right now I have my doubts, so do the squad I bet, success breeds winners, we need to break the cycle, losing in a final will only reinforce the fact we can't win anything.

Like I said we have no hope in the CL, Bayern will knock us out and if by some miracle they don't some other team will, we're not good enough to win that competition. As for keeping us on the European stage, sorry I don't personally rate that as an achievement, it's Europe's premier competition not one for 3rd and 4th placed teams IMO.

[saintnickle]

We have Walcott and Ramsey, our two most improved players, out with long term injuries. We don't have the money to have another 2 Walcotts and another 2 Ramseys on the bench. Take 3xToure and 3xAguero out of City long term, Suarez and Gerard out of Liverpool, 3xHazard and ... (just how the hell are those fuckers top anyway?) and problems would be rearing for those clubs too. Fortunately the extent of our current problem is being 4 points off the lead instead of 14 as usual. Could we be four points closer if we'd had our best team on the pitch for any significant duration? It's not unreasonable to suggest yes.

What we're saying is, there have been definite signs of improvement. The defence is better beyond all recognition. The goalkeeper has come on brilliantly. Some of our "project" players are starting to finally come though, Walcott, Ramsey, Ox. We have signed one of the best players in the world (and even though he's tailed off in his first season in a 100mph with no rest kickabout league he's class and it will surface), we have led the way most of the way, we are still in with a shout at the top, took it to Bayern and outplayed them until fate intervened, we have announced massive new deals that open up the door to some serious reinforcements. In conclusion - sack the manager, he has nothing to offer.

Why are you making excuses .All teams have injuries.We have 70 million in the bank after 2 transfer windows where we spent 25 million in total,which is less than what cardiff spend and we moan about 2 players being injured.Get real

[Özim]

On the contrary, I remember very well what the FA Cup used to be. That's why I don't have much time for the modern day parody.

Why because Wenger and co have decided that the league and CL (a competition which allows 4th place into it) are more important? Yeah that's all about money I'm afraid nothing else (CL anyway).

I personally long for the joy of seeing my team score a goal that wins a game which ends in them lifting a trophy, there's nothing like it, this 4th place sh*t, well it barely gets me out of my chair.

[Power n Glory]

The FA Cup of old, competed for by English, Scots, Irish and Welsh, had a genuine prestige. This modern version, competed for by Spaniards, French and Nigerians, not so much. Doubt half the players would be bothered about it beyond the day itself. Honestly, if grabbing a second rate trophy is enough for some to say keep Wenger in his job, but keeping us on the European stage in a genuinely prestigious tournament is considered failure then there's a weird logic going on. Getting to the final of the CL would be a much bigger achievement than winning the FA Cup. I think winning the latter wouldn't signify much at all. A bit of luck and we could win it this year. What does emulating Wigan tell us though? Anything of value? If we want to see real progress then we have to aim for something bigger than that. Of course great if we win it, but for me I'll be asking what else did we do that showed we took a step forward. I think we have taken a big step forward this year anyway. Having a defence after years of being without is proper advancement. Get a few players in this summer and I think we can measure our ambitions to the size of this club. Sure, why not, pick up the FA Cup while we are at it. I won't complain.

You've really been taken in by Wenger's doctrine! I think you've lost your mind.

Qualification for the CL and another final that we end up losing does nothing for us. It just feeds into this 'specialist of failure' stigma we have attached to us. The players and coach need to stop chocking and actually win a trophy to restore some confidence and our reputation.

[JonasTC]

NQ stop making sense and stop saying you support Wenger... It will make you unpopular in here :d

[Özim]

NQ stop making sense and stop saying you support Wenger... It will make you unpopular in here :d

I guess it only makes sense if you agree with it? :d

[Letters]

On the contrary, I remember very well what the FA Cup used to be. That's why I don't have much time for the modern day parody.

I remember what it used to be too, it used to be the highlight of the season, a really special day, hours of build up...well, the build up started when the semi-finals were over. One of the few games of the season shown live on TV. Now...just another big game in the tide of hyped TV games, massively devalued by the CL - both in that it's overshadowed by it and qualification for next year's is more important to many clubs than winning it.


All that said, we need to get this no trophies monkey off our back.

[Niall_Quinn]

I haven't been taken in by anything at all. I just know the difference between running a business and talking about running a business. Sure, at a top down level the owners and executives of the club will consider the fans in terms of the overall goal. But then they sit down at a table and start working out the practical realities of achieving that goal. What can be done, what can't, how a thing can be achieved or partially achieved given the resources at hand and the environment being operated in. How long it will take to hit each milestone. What the contingencies are. The finer details.

Quite obviously securing CL football and partially funding the stadium move using a net positive transfer balance were critical to the plan. Our main competitors have pumped cash into players while we took cash out of that pot. So things have been tough on the pitch. Now you can say, fuck, we want trophies, we want signings, we want it today. And we could have gone that way instead and won a title or a few cups. But those would be the last we'd ever win as the consequences of not reacting to the changing face of football would have been to become second tier on a permanent basis.

Now we have the means of cementing ourselves at the top of the game for the long term. According to the plan what is supposed to follow is the investment on the pitch that will produce the team that was the whole reason for the stadium move and up-scaled business plan. So we were told. We saw the first piece of this with the signing of Ozil in a Barcelona, Madrid, Man City sized deal. Some have laughably suggested Wenger blew that money to appease fans. That's the stupidest argument it's possible to make in light of the facts. Facts many complain about, no investment, second tier signings, transfer profits, etc. Of course it wasn't appeasement. It was delivery on what was promised all along. The first parcel anyway.

This is such a crucial time for the club. Exactly the wrong time for certain elements to be pissing about calling for the manager to be sacked, trying to oust Wilshere, calling Ozil whatever name the Daily Hannibal Lecter has pushed out for the day. Crying because we didn't nail the title well ahead of schedule. That's what the mention of the injured players is about. In a couple of years maybe we WILL have 3xRamsey on the bench. Then it's a whole new ball game.

I haven't been taken in at all. I'm just reading the evidence and seeing that it tallies with the assurances given by the board and the manager. Ozil was the key evidence that I find it amazing some can dismiss so easily. It's almost like some fans are getting frightened we might pull this off and are having one last stabbing frenzy to see if they can blow it up. With 3 tough games coming up our job is to be supporting the club, not trying to fuck the manager out the door. And whichever way those games go we still have the business of finishing what we started to attend to. So it won't be time to sack the manager or hound Wilshere out in April either.

[Power n Glory]

I just know the difference between running a business and talking about running a business. :blink:

I'm surprised by you. Last year you were at total odds with the way the club was being run and especially critical of Gazidis and Kronke. At least your now starting to see that they're doing what's required. Wenger has constantly made noise about funding in the football and they've done all they can to help provide the funds. The ball is now in his court.

We've had this sort of debate before and I did say it makes sense for the Board to be more cautious with our funds and pushing out the boat because they have a long term goal with this stadium move. Stability and consistency helps them forecast. You were pretty critical of me when I defended their approach and could understand why they're so cautious. Where we differ is, I put the onus on Wenger to push for silverware because he's the manager and motivations should be in line with the athletes. Winning as much as possible and taking home the silverware should be what drives him and I don't expect the Board to have to drive that message home to him.

It's not impossible to win the FA cup and secure a CL qualification place. I'm not sure why you'd argue otherwise when you know how important it is for us to break this mental block. The FA Cup is still a cup. I completely understand your point about this being a crucial moment and it may sound premature to want rid of Wenger but if we now have the financial backing and seem more secure financially, I don't think that strengthens Wenger's position at the club. It will be sad if he doesn't get to enjoy the fruits of his labour but he needs to help himself. If he were to walk now, I wouldn't be in a major panic because we now have the funds for a new manager to build a better squad.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Finishing 4th would mean another summer of waiting until the end to sign players and rushing about to complete deals due to the qualifier.

No thanks.

That is in all likelihood what we will do in any case.....and the world cup is far more likely to be a factor in that, than our pending CL qualifier. We didn't have that to deal with in January and yet we signed an injured player right at the death.

Doing deals late has been a very deliberate, calculated and concerted strategy, habit and tendency of the club's for a number of years now. This seems to be in order to play the hard ball style in negotiations we like and to get deals as cheap as we see fit.

3rd place is better than 4th place but one is simply 3rd placed loser and the other is 4th placed loser. If we finish 4th and win the FA cup I will still deem the season a successful one as it's a damn sight more than we've done in the last several years.

[Niall_Quinn]

:blink:

I'm surprised by you. Last year you were at total odds with the way the club was being run and especially critical of Gazidis and Kronke. At least your now starting to see that they're doing what's required. Wenger has constantly made noise about funding in the football and they've done all they can to help provide the funds. The ball is now in his court.

We've had this sort of debate before and I did say it makes sense for the Board to be more cautious with our funds and pushing out the boat because they have a long term goal with this stadium move. Stability and consistency helps them forecast. You were pretty critical of me when I defended their approach and could understand why they're so cautious. Where we differ is, I put the onus on Wenger to push for silverware because he's the manager and motivations should be in line with the athletes. Winning as much as possible and taking home the silverware should be what drives him and I don't expect the Board to have to drive that message home to him.

It's not impossible to win the FA cup and secure a CL qualification place. I'm not sure why you'd argue otherwise when you know how important it is for us to break this mental block. The FA Cup is still a cup. I completely understand your point about this being a crucial moment and it may sound premature to want rid of Wenger but if we now have the financial backing and seem more secure financially, I don't think that strengthens Wenger's position at the club. It will be sad if he doesn't get to enjoy the fruits of his labour but he needs to help himself. If he were to walk now, I wouldn't be in a major panic because we now have the funds for a new manager to build a better squad.

The criticism was based on what went before, not what has happened since. I still firmly believe those rancid old buffers robbed the club blind when they sold out. When you see that sort of track record you then need to see some evidence the promises of cake later are believable. Ozil is a signature of their intent from what I can see so maybe we do have a new approach. Not saying they won't be in it for the money, but at least they haven't sliced a huge chunk out of the club like the last lot.

Yes of course Wenger needs to push. His job has been to keep us in the CL but if he can do more than that then he should. I don't mind winning the FA Cup. It'll be great on the day but it's no real measurement of anything much and I'm not sure a cup win will play a factor in the big Euro games next season or a shot at the title. I think media people like to make that sort of shit up to fill a few more columns. What I'd really like to see is for us to go to Germany and lay into Bayern big time. We were bloody unlucky in the first leg, we stood a great chance of winning that given the way we approached the game. That's what affects things more than FA Cups IMO, the attitude Wenger has going into the game. Is it positive or is it negative. We do quite well when he lets the players go for it. We are gambling when we play negative stuff because we just aren't that good at it. Wenger has dropped into negative mode over the last couple of months and I don't think he needed to. I think he worries too much about who will be fit, who has run how far, who will be 2% away from fitness. Half the players are injured most of the time anyway so a hell of a lot of his planning must go out the window. Just play the best 11 and tell them to attack. Then again, measured across the season he's been right more times than wrong.

Some of the shit he does bugs the hell out of me too but I don't like to see some of the fans turn on him in such a violent way. I think just about all of us have said it wouldn't be a disaster if he went. But on proper terms, not with fans, some of whom have been around a whole 5 minutes, jeering him out the door. But you are right, now we have finances his job gets twice as hard. We'll know within a season if he's up to it but surely he has to be given at least that long?

The other point is, when people say Wenger out they may not realise that out could well mean up and even more control. From their point of view they had better be careful what they wish for.

[AFC Leveller]

The FA cup is not worthless, far from it. To get to the final you have to beat at least 3 top PL sides (we've beaten two already) and really produce the goods in the final as well.

The CC though, that can be seen as second rate.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Don't get me wrong. I want us to win the FA Cup. I think this team, especially the players who have long forgotten what it is like to actually win something, need it.

However, lets not go into pretending that this is some kind of prestigious competition any longer. It isn't. It hasn't been for a long time now. If you think it is, you are the one buying into the hype - not that there is a great deal of hype around it any longer.

In fact, in this hype fuelled age, where everything is built up to the greatest and most anticipated event of all time, the FA Cup is pretty much unique in that the hype surrounding it is much less than it has been in the past, such has been its decline in prestige.

[LDG]

The FA cup was much better in 92/93

[Xhaka Can’t]

It was so good, they played it twice.

[Letters]

Linighan :bow:

Thoroughly enjoyable.

[Bumble]

I was watching some oldish (2002-04) arsenal highlights on youtube last night, and wondering why Wenger would change the way his team played. He used to have a couple of big centre mids (Petit, Vieira, Gilberto, Edu), goal scoring wide midfielders (Overmars, Pires, Ljungberg, Wiltord) and two strikers up front (Wright, Bergkamp, Anelka, Henry, Kanu) why oh why change that formula.

[GP]

Football in general has changed. No one really plays 4-4-2 anymore and often pack the midfield. You're right in that the overall quality of the squad has declined but you've named some of the best players in our history. It's not easy to maintain that level.

[Bumble]

Football in general has changed. No one really plays 4-4-2 anymore and often pack the midfield. You're right in that the overall quality of the squad has declined but you've named some of the best players in our history. It's not easy to maintain that level.

true football has changed but i think if you have the right players any system will work. they are some of the best players have ever had and to have them in the same team was incredible.

with regards wenger out, he will be offered a new contract and he wont be sacked as i bet the board will have seen what happened at united with moyes and think better the devil you know and perhaps 4th place aint so bad with the cash. wenger will only leave when he wants to call it a day.

[Globalgunner]

true football has changed but i think if you have the right players any system will work. they are some of the best players have ever had and to have them in the same team was incredible.

with regards wenger out, he will be offered a new contract and he wont be sacked as i bet the board will have seen what happened at united with moyes and think better the devil you know and perhaps 4th place aint so bad with the cash. wenger will only leave when he wants to call it a day.

I sincerely hope you are wrong.

[Power n Glory]

The criticism was based on what went before, not what has happened since. I still firmly believe those rancid old buffers robbed the club blind when they sold out. When you see that sort of track record you then need to see some evidence the promises of cake later are believable. Ozil is a signature of their intent from what I can see so maybe we do have a new approach. Not saying they won't be in it for the money, but at least they haven't sliced a huge chunk out of the club like the last lot.

Yes of course Wenger needs to push. His job has been to keep us in the CL but if he can do more than that then he should. I don't mind winning the FA Cup. It'll be great on the day but it's no real measurement of anything much and I'm not sure a cup win will play a factor in the big Euro games next season or a shot at the title. I think media people like to make that sort of shit up to fill a few more columns. What I'd really like to see is for us to go to Germany and lay into Bayern big time. We were bloody unlucky in the first leg, we stood a great chance of winning that given the way we approached the game. That's what affects things more than FA Cups IMO, the attitude Wenger has going into the game. Is it positive or is it negative. We do quite well when he lets the players go for it. We are gambling when we play negative stuff because we just aren't that good at it. Wenger has dropped into negative mode over the last couple of months and I don't think he needed to. I think he worries too much about who will be fit, who has run how far, who will be 2% away from fitness. Half the players are injured most of the time anyway so a hell of a lot of his planning must go out the window. Just play the best 11 and tell them to attack. Then again, measured across the season he's been right more times than wrong.

Some of the shit he does bugs the hell out of me too but I don't like to see some of the fans turn on him in such a violent way. I think just about all of us have said it wouldn't be a disaster if he went. But on proper terms, not with fans, some of whom have been around a whole 5 minutes, jeering him out the door. But you are right, now we have finances his job gets twice as hard. We'll know within a season if he's up to it but surely he has to be given at least that long?

The other point is, when people say Wenger out they may not realise that out could well mean up and even more control. From their point of view they had better be careful what they wish for.

We've beaten the biggest teams in Europe. All of them. Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern, AC Milan, Juve...we still have this stigma attached to us and end up chocking in cup and title runs. Another big win against a massive club is no milestone. What would another win against Bayern prove? It hasn't done much to change the mindset of the club because we're approaching that 10 year mark without a trophy! We need to break this hoodoo and win something, get over this complex and really push on.

Ozil seemed like a sign of intent but I can't be so sure considering the last transfer window. We may have broke the record signing Ozil but it's not as if we were incapable of splashing most of the budget on a superstar whilst picking up cheap deals on other players. We'll find out next season if Wenger has really switched his approach. I'm not against giving him another season because I'm at the point where I don't really care. If something doesn't change soon then Wenger is the one who will take most of the flak.

[Letters]

Depends on the FA Cup now.
If we fuck it up again then I do think he should go, we're not going to have a better chance of winning it.
If we do win it though then with the general improvement I think he deserves chance to build on it.

[Niall_Quinn]

No way, I don't believe anything should hang on a tin pot. Despite all my misgivings there appears to have been a genuine financial plan in place and it has been a hard and barren struggle to get to the verge of seeing that massive plan mature. I can't see how a tin pot compares with the potential we have ahead of us now. If it's true that these guys knew what they were doing all along, and it genuinely looks that way, we are in for some good maybe great times ahead. We don't do anything to jeopardise that when we are right on the brink of taking a giant step up.

[Letters]

We are more than good enough to win the FA Cup given the other teams who remain.
Against a backdrop of no trophies for this long and a few near misses where we seem to have collapsed when the pressure got to us, to fail again would be too much IMO.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

No way, I don't believe anything should hang on a tin pot. Despite all my misgivings there appears to have been a genuine financial plan in place and it has been a hard and barren struggle to get to the verge of seeing that massive plan mature. I can't see how a tin pot compares with the potential we have ahead of us now. If it's true that these guys knew what they were doing all along, and it genuinely looks that way, we are in for some good maybe great times ahead. We don't do anything to jeopardise that when we are right on the brink of taking a giant step up.

At what point does that giant step entail winning a tin pot or two?

How will we have known that we've taken that giant step?

Against what will it be measured?

[Niall_Quinn]

At what point does that giant step entail winning a tin pot or two?

How will we have known that we've taken that giant step?

Against what will it be measured?

We'll know when a £40mill striker turns up and we see steady competition with the top tier clubs for the top resources. That was the key purpose of this stadium move. A tin pot now is neither here nor there in the bigger scheme of things. Nice and unexpected and I certainly want it because it's there to be won, but it doesn't define anything related to the plan the club has been engaged in over the past 8 years. Titles and CL pots is what we want surely, with of course the odd trinket like the FA Cup or Littlewoods Milk McDonalds Bubblegum Cup thrown in for entertainment. Charity Shield too, why not? Golden boots, POTY awards, the lot. But the FA Cup this season isn't a herald of great things to come. Cash on the table and big signings will be a far better way to judge where this club is heading.

[Niall_Quinn]

We are more than good enough to win the FA Cup given the other teams who remain.
Against a backdrop of no trophies for this long and a few near misses where we seem to have collapsed when the pressure got to us, to fail again would be too much IMO.

Why too much? What happens if we get a player sent off and lose after playing with 10 men for an hour? Surely there are degrees of success and failure based on performance, circumstances, events beyond our control? If we lose playing shit, that's fair enough, questions to be asked. What if we win with a really dodgy pen having been played off the park?

[selassie]

Depends on the FA Cup now.
If we fuck it up again then I do think he should go, we're not going to have a better chance of winning it.
If we do win it though then with the general improvement I think he deserves chance to build on it.

This.

I admit that I have been pretty vocal about Wenger and wanting him gone but if he wins the FA Cup then he should definitely be given a chance to build on it.

If however we fail then he should walk, no two ways about it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Crazy talk. Like stabbing a bloke who carried you out of a plane crash and across the mountains, because he didn't buy you a drink when you reached civilisation.

[Özim]

Why too much? What happens if we get a player sent off and lose after playing with 10 men for an hour? Surely there are degrees of success and failure based on performance, circumstances, events beyond our control? If we lose playing shit, that's fair enough, questions to be asked. What if we win with a really dodgy pen having been played off the park?

In all honesty we should still beat what's left with 10 men, we're far superior to them and only complacency would see us lose (pretty much what happened to City.....twice).

[Letters]

Why too much? What happens if we get a player sent off and lose after playing with 10 men for an hour? Surely there are degrees of success and failure based on performance, circumstances, events beyond our control? If we lose playing shit, that's fair enough, questions to be asked. What if we win with a really dodgy pen having been played off the park?

Yes, that's fair enough. The Bayern game is a good example of that. Yeah, we might have lost anyway but the ref made sure we did and you can't blame Wenger or the players for that.
Really hope we win it though, not just for the obvious reasons but for Wenger too. He's had all kinds of shit thrown at him and has shown a lot of dignity. He deserves it.

[GP]

Wenger does deserve it. We all do really. But a failure to win this now and he's really got to go. I said so after the Birmingham debacle and I stand by it.

[Marc Overmars]

It's not the most prestigious prize we can win, but we arguably have more to lose by losing it, than we do to gain by winning it. That's why it's imperative we get the job done and begin to shake off this perception of being perennial chokers.

Absence makes the heart grow fonder as they say. This would be a wonderful boost for everyone if we win it.

[Munchies]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wHYHMpHmSg

If we win it, it'll be like this! . The tune in this ... :haha:

Been tooooooooooo long. I still remember phoning someone as soon as Vieira's penalty went in last time as he was in hospital watching the game. 9 years went by pretty fast.

[Letters]

Most importantly, of course, it would be the first trophy in the GW era.

[Munchies]

Most importantly, of course, it would be the first trophy in the GW era.

Can we have something under the banner at the top to signify this ? :lol:

Kinda like the old official site used to always have, 'Fa cup winners 2014'

Open top bus anyone ?

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Can we have something under the banner at the top to signify this ? :lol:

Kinda like the old official site used to always have, 'Fa cup winners 2014'

Open top bus anyone ?

How about 'No Cripps = Trophies'

[Ollie the Optimist]

i do agree that is he doesn't win the cup then perhaps he should go, and i also feel that if he does,t he will walk but as NQ says, it does depend on the day and the performance.

have to say, there would be no finer sight in football this season then that man, in his suit, with that smile, holding the cup above his head while mourinho wins fuck all. that would be outstanding

[fakeyank]

Do I want him to get a new deal, even if we win the FA Cup? No, I do not. I think we as a team have reached as far as we could under Wenger. I do not think we can progress much with him at the helm

Will I still call for his head if we win the cup? No. Because winning a trophy should earn him a chance to improve upon this season (unlikely IMO)

However, lets remember that we are just in the semi-finals and we have capitulated spectacularly in pretty much every big test we have faced in the recent past. Wigan will be no pushovers and neither will Hull/Sheffield Utd, if we are to reach the final.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Do I want him to get a new deal, even if we win the FA Cup? No, I do not. I think we as a team has reached as far as we could under Wenger. I do not think we can progress much with him at the helm.

surely after 8 years, no money etc winning a trophy is significant progress? if we were to win the cup this year, and still challenge for the league, when you compare that to last season, the progression would have been unbelievable. imagine what he could do, with money and the 9 years and no trophy tag gone

[fakeyank]

surely after 8 years, no money etc winning a trophy is significant progress? if we were to win the cup this year, and still challenge for the league, when you compare that to last season, the progression would have been unbelievable. imagine what he could do, with money and the 9 years and no trophy tag gone

My opinion is not based on money really. Its based more on how our football is (mostly boring), how we have performed against the top sides, tactics etc. I just do not think Wenger is the best choice for us moving forward. It's my opinion though and I hope I am wrong! Let's win this bitch first.

[Niall_Quinn]

That will rely on you not being within 3,000 miles of the stadium. Make it so.

[Xhaka Can’t]

That will rely on you not being within 3,000 miles of the stadium. Make it so.

I hear that California is particularly nice during April and May.

[GP]

I hear that California is particularly nice during April and May.

apart from LA which is always shit.

[Xhaka Can’t]

apart from LA which is always shit.

But 5,437 miles away from Wembley.

[GP]

Too close for comfort.

[IBK]

For me - the FA Cup doesn't and shouldn't mean Wenger going. For sceptics like me, Saturday was an example of how we performed properly in a pressure game. I have criticised our performances in other crunch ties - Saturday (and Spurs previously) showed a resilience that I haven't seen often with our more recent teams. If we have a setback in the Cup, but show a good account of ourselves in Munich and over the next month in the league - I am flexible enough to admit that there has been progress, and that Wenger should be allowed to build on this next season.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

QUE SERA SERA

[IBK]

QUE SERA SERA

That too. :good:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Feels so fuckin' good.

[Ralpheroo72]

Yes its the dail mole, but the part where Wenger has only spent 57.8M net on transfers in his time at Arsenal, that is incredible

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2581758/Arsene-Wenger-changed-English-football-forever-landmark-looms-season-without-trophy.html

[Globalgunner]

Yes its the dail mole, but the part where Wenger has only spent 57.8M net on transfers in his time at Arsenal, that is incredible

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2581758/Arsene-Wenger-changed-English-football-forever-landmark-looms-season-without-trophy.html

If he hadn't bought Ozil that would have been 16m in 18 years

[Munchies]

Seeing his post-match itnerview after the Swansea game has pretty much shown that he needs to go.

Hopefully he can win the fa cup to end on a high note.

[selassie]

I am surprised how many folks want Arsene to stick around.

I would love nothing more than for Arsene to see out the season with us finishing in a top 4 place and winning the FA Cup. Arsene should then do the decent thing and step down.

This man can offer this football club no more than a 4th place finish IMHO, that's as much as we'll get with Arsene in charge. I respect his past achievements and respect the way he has steadied the club post Emirates move but he is NOT the man to take this club forward. He is too set in his ways, I don't see him as a flexible and progressive manager.

We need change, fresh ideas, somebody new and progressive. Someone who is willing to take a chance.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I am surprised how many folks want Arsene to stick around.

I would love nothing more than for Arsene to see out the season with us finishing in a top 4 place and winning the FA Cup. Arsene should then do the decent thing and step down.

This man can offer this football club no more than a 4th place finish IMHO, that's as much as we'll get with Arsene in charge. I respect his past achievements and respect the way he has steadied the club post Emirates move but he is NOT the man to take this club forward. He is too set in his ways, I don't see him as a flexible and progressive manager.

We need change, fresh ideas, somebody new and progressive. Someone who is willing to take a chance.

This is spot on.

I was speaking to a mate I haven't seen in a while, a fellow gooner and I suggested to him that he needs to go.
His reply - "what?! Our best ever manager??"

That seems to be the response of those who want him to stay.

He has been our best manager yes, but unfortunately, he just cannot cut it anymore.

[fakeyank]

This is spot on.

I was speaking to a mate I haven't seen in a while, a fellow gooner and I suggested to him that he needs to go.
His reply - "what?! Our best ever manager??"

That seems to be the response of those who want him to stay.

He has been our best manager yes, but unfortunately, he just cannot cut it anymore.

:gp:

The problem with people who want him to stay is that they have yet to understand the difference between he has been v/s he is

It just takes a little bit of time for some people to understand the difference between living in the past v/s the present. Moving on for many is not easy. It'll take time but sooner rather than later, it'll happen.

[Marc Overmars]

His teams aren't even exciting anymore. Last season our football was turgid and this season it's only been marginally better with an emphasis placed on defence.

One thing I always thought we'd have in spite of everything was an exciting team, now we don't even have that because he doesn't have a handle on things. He turned a blind eye to our forward options which have needed an injection of quality for a long time now, instead he chose to stockpile a group of midfielders who are more 'cog in the wheel' types, rather than individuals who have the flair and audacity to take responsibility - although admittedly he has been unfortunate with Ramsey's injury.

[torontogooner]

YES!

[Niall_Quinn]

:gp:

The problem with people who want him to stay is that they have yet to understand the difference between he has been v/s he is

It just takes a little bit of time for some people to understand the difference between living in the past v/s the present. Moving on for many is not easy. It'll take time but sooner rather than later, it'll happen.

The irony.

Actually the real problem with people these days is most have never been taught the difference between value and price, or achievement and instant gratification. This is why at the conclusion of an unprecedented project to elevate Arsenal to the top ranks of the game some can say look, we didn't beat that billion quid club to the title yet, get the dynamite and blow everything to pieces.

[gunnerrrrr]

The irony.

Actually the real problem with people these days is most have never been taught the difference between value and price, or achievement and instant gratification. This is why at the conclusion of an unprecedented project to elevate Arsenal to the top ranks of the game some can say look, we didn't beat that billion quid club to the title yet, get the dynamite and blow everything to pieces.

Arsene is that you in disguise?

[Power n Glory]

The irony.

Actually the real problem with people these days is most have never been taught the difference between value and price, or achievement and instant gratification. This is why at the conclusion of an unprecedented project to elevate Arsenal to the top ranks of the game some can say look, we didn't beat that billion quid club to the title yet, get the dynamite and blow everything to pieces.

I don't think you can accuse any Arsenal fan of being impatient with Wenger. A lot of abuse was hurled in the Board directions. Ivan and Stan were given a rough ride and have taken a lot bullets for Wenger. You yourself accused them of asset stripping and ripping the soul out of the club. Little patience was afforded to them and they are relatively new to the Arsenal regime. Stan fully gained control in 2011 and Gazidis took up his role in 2009. It's funny to hear you talk to others about patience when you consider the accusations and abuse you hurled their way. That was a case of looking for instant gratification and considering the long term project we've had in mind, we were never going to get these sponsorship deals in place from day one. It takes time and now it finally looks like they're delivering on that promise. I think they deserve some recognition.

I can fully understand why the Board have been cautious and patient with Wenger when considering this long term project. It would have been risky to sack him in the middle of all this. But right now, they need to assess his position at the club and just like how we treat players over 30. Offer him the sort of contract that keeps him on his toes if he wants to stay. Nothing long term and maybe tie in some performance related bonuses. He's done a fantastic job for us getting here but with more money coming into the game with the new BT Sport money, with clubs like Liverpool and Everton growing stronger, more great players and managers coming to the Prem, we need to be careful we're not overtaken.

If we're thinking long term, how many more years do we give Wenger? I don't think he has the tools to cope with the modern game. Although we're looking financially secure, I don't think he'll still struggle because no matter what, we won't be able to outspend certain clubs or buy the most talented players like we were able to do in the late 90s early 2000s.

[Marc Overmars]

The talk in the papers is that he will only sign a 2 year deal. Makes sense to me, give him a chance with the big money we now have and also use the time to find a successor.

[Niall_Quinn]

First up, the jury isn't out on Kroenke and whether his end game is to the maximum benefit of the club. The release of proper funds for a major signing was a good indicator though. I stand fully behind what I said about those who put little in and took the maximum at a time when finances were crucial. Unbelievably some are accusing Wenger of this and never a mention of the ones who pocketed ten thousand times their meagre investment. It was never about instant gratification, it was about the possibility of having the future taken away (remember the boardroom stabbings?) and the patience you mention being exchanged for a confidence trick rather than the real prize - which is the financial muscle to compete at the top of the game. The competing can't come before that, at least not on a consistent basis. One step follows the next and if the first indications are a prelude to delivering the remainder of what was promised when this project began then it's pure insanity to kick it all in at the death. For sure, it's still a risk but we're watching the big deals getting landed. We've all done the, "Are we there yet?", routine but now the answer is finally yes and we're pulling onto the driveway some stupid fuckers want to wrestle the wheel from the driver and crash the fucking car. I think it is because they have forgotten (or never knew) why they were on the journey in the first place and now they just hate the driver.

True enough, even with bolstered finances we can't dominate the criminals unless we bring our own criminal in (which I hope we don't because then everything really will have been for nothing), but we are in the game at least. We can spend as much as teams like Utd (marketing giants) and Liverpool (short termism with their finances), we can start replacing lost talent rather than selling it. We all know we are short of players in the squad and there's a blatantly obvious reason for it and that reason is about to expire. The sentient arguments about Wenger struggling as a coach (certainly not as a manager because he's proved his worth in that discipline over and over again) I understand. It could well be Wenger moves up and a more training ground focused coach with a tighter remit is brought in. That could happen. But the hatred and ridicule has gone way beyond such reasonable debates.

This guy hasn't stolen anything from the club, he's poured everything he can give into it. But we haven't managed to overcome the billionaires yet and we are still prone to the effects of underinvestment (the opportunity cost of investment elsewhere) when a few players hit the treatment table. And that's disappointing and frustrating. And it's pointed out by the "pro-Wengerites" (pro our own manager, can you believe it) in the match threads. But things go much further than that in some cases and as an example, there were so-called fans here and elsewhere joining in with the media braying at pictures of Wenger tripping and hurting himself. That suggests more that a desire to see to see Cazorla play centrally or a trophy being won. This suggests something nasty that no real fan would ever want a part of surely? Plus all the other stuff. We can have as many disagreements about the club and how it is run, managed, coached as we want because it's a free world. But there's also the facts to balance the criticism, what Wenger has put into this club and what he has achieved not just in the early years but also over the last decade. Who else could have done it? Seriously. Who else?

If he's to go on his way after almost two decades of service to the club then is it completely unreasonable to afford him the acknowledgement he thoroughly deserves? From what I gather you say yes and that's good. For others though, I stick with what I said. Value of nothing, short term gratification, bragging rights for those who probably don't have a clue how to measure an achievement. They could never be Norwich fans, could they? Seems to me they can't even be Arsenal fans.

[Niall_Quinn]

The talk in the papers is that he will only sign a 2 year deal. Makes sense to me, give him a chance with the big money we now have and also use the time to find a successor.

Strong chance that was the plan all along. Maybe not the shortened 2 years, but see out the project and then pass it on. Which is why there's no harm retaining some dignity while it all develops.

[Niall_Quinn]

Arsene is that you in disguise?

A wasted compliment.

But the living in the past business - if the last 10 years hadn't happened the way it has happened then that's where the club would be condemned to live forever. The past.

[LDG]

First up, the jury isn't out on Kroenke and whether his end game is to the maximum benefit of the club. The release of proper funds for a major signing was a good indicator though. I stand fully behind what I said about those who put little in and took the maximum at a time when finances were crucial. Unbelievably some are accusing Wenger of this and never a mention of the ones who pocketed ten thousand times their meagre investment. It was never about instant gratification, it was about the possibility of having the future taken away (remember the boardroom stabbings?) and the patience you mention being exchanged for a confidence trick rather than the real prize - which is the financial muscle to compete at the top of the game. The competing can't come before that, at least not on a consistent basis. One step follows the next and if the first indications are a prelude to delivering the remainder of what was promised when this project began then it's pure insanity to kick it all in at the death. For sure, it's still a risk but we're watching the big deals getting landed. We've all done the, "Are we there yet?", routine but now the answer is finally yes and we're pulling onto the driveway some stupid fuckers want to wrestle the wheel from the driver and crash the fucking car. I think it is because they have forgotten (or never knew) why they were on the journey in the first place and now they just hate the driver.

True enough, even with bolstered finances we can't dominate the criminals unless we bring our own criminal in (which I hope we don't because then everything really will have been for nothing), but we are in the game at least. We can spend as much as teams like Utd (marketing giants) and Liverpool (short termism with their finances), we can start replacing lost talent rather than selling it. We all know we are short of players in the squad and there's a blatantly obvious reason for it and that reason is about to expire. The sentient arguments about Wenger struggling as a coach (certainly not as a manager because he's proved his worth in that discipline over and over again) I understand. It could well be Wenger moves up and a more training ground focused coach with a tighter remit is brought in. That could happen. But the hatred and ridicule has gone way beyond such reasonable debates.

This guy hasn't stolen anything from the club, he's poured everything he can give into it. But we haven't managed to overcome the billionaires yet and we are still prone to the effects of underinvestment (the opportunity cost of investment elsewhere) when a few players hit the treatment table. And that's disappointing and frustrating. And it's pointed out by the "pro-Wengerites" (pro our own manager, can you believe it) in the match threads. But things go much further than that in some cases and as an example, there were so-called fans here and elsewhere joining in with the media braying at pictures of Wenger tripping and hurting himself. That suggests more that a desire to see to see Cazorla play centrally or a trophy being won. This suggests something nasty that no real fan would ever want a part of surely? Plus all the other stuff. We can have as many disagreements about the club and how it is run, managed, coached as we want because it's a free world. But there's also the facts to balance the criticism, what Wenger has put into this club and what he has achieved not just in the early years but also over the last decade. Who else could have done it? Seriously. Who else?

If he's to go on his way after almost two decades of service to the club then is it completely unreasonable to afford him the acknowledgement he thoroughly deserves? From what I gather you say yes and that's good. For others though, I stick with what I said. Value of nothing, short term gratification, bragging rights for those who probably don't have a clue how to measure an achievement. They could never be Norwich fans, could they? Seems to me they can't even be Arsenal fans.

Top post. Well said.

I can't condone some of the mistakes that have been repeated. In this world where everyone has there say, I do think it is justified to lay some blame at the door of the manager for the piss takes we have endured at the hands of our rivals.

But the filth who call themselves fans, who are full of vitriol, malice and openly laugh along with the braying mob of internet/social media bumders, should really just fuck off and support City, if instant and shameless gratification is all they want.

[1_nilto the arsenal]

The problem is the current club directors have delegated the entire running of this football club to Wenger, and he gladly accepted that role. However that was his great downfall and what made fans like me lose faith and trust. You cannot run a football clubeall on your own as it will effect other areas most importantly the football aspect of the club. We have too many injuries each season, we have no plans or stratedgy when it comes to our transfer policy. Our youth policy has sufferred, where are all the promising youth players? Ox and Theo were the product of Southamptons great academy. Yes we have Wilshire but lets be perfectly honest with out selves, his form has dipped so badly over the past 2-3 seasons with inujuries and smoking and drinking and not really behaving like a pro, he looks olike he's carrying excess weight and is not a good example. Wenger was a great manager and produced some brilliant football and great siginings, but he had Dein in the background doing all the admin stuff that allowed Wenger to concentrate on the team, training and winning games. I believe its time to move on and go in a different direction, I much prefer a football director and a 1st team coach partnership as they do in the continent.

[GP]

Top post. Well said.

I can't condone some of the mistakes that have been repeated. In this world where everyone has there say, I do think it is justified to lay some blame at the door of the manager for the piss takes we have endured at the hands of our rivals.

But the filth who call themselves fans, who are full of vitriol, malice and openly laugh along with the braying mob of internet/social media bumders, should really just fuck off and support City, if instant and shameless gratification is all they want.

Exactly right.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Wenger wont change no matter how much money he's given to spend.

So this project is no better now than when it started.

We will still see the same mistakes being repeated, the same lack of tactics, and the same lack of fight and mentality when it comes to the title race.

So fuck it, lets just give him another 5, 10, 15 years shall we?? maybe when he dies we can arrange to have him in cryo stasis at the side of the pitch so he can still (mis)manage the team.

yay :rolleyes:

[1_nilto the arsenal]

Wenger wont change no matter how much money he's given to spend.

So this project is no better now than when it started.

We will still see the same mistakes being repeated, the same lack of tactics, and the same lack of fight and mentality when it comes to the title race.

So fuck it, lets just give him another 5, 10, 15 years shall we?? maybe when he dies we can arrange to have him in cryo stasis at the side of the pitch so he can still (mis)manage the team.

yay :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpNoaR_Nzrs
:pal:

[Niall_Quinn]

The suggestion is we all calm down and stop trying to hound our manager out of his job when we still have a season to complete, a vital CL spot to secure and a cup semi to play in. After that many things might happen but in the main I suppose we all want to get something positive from the run in so it would be better to get behind even a misfiring team because there's more chance of a result that way. The media and the opposition fans will do their worst anyway, media hacks and football fans like nothing better than do kick hard when somebody is down (we do it with Moyes). It's counter-productive and hurts ourselves when we join in with that shit against our own team though. And these "pro-Wengerites" will only stand more staunchly behind the manager if people inside our own camp start lobbing bricks at him. What else is expected?

Honestly, there are people hoping we miss out on the CL, people hoping we get crushed by the gypos, people posting up as much shit about Wenger as they can on our own message boards, fucks on twatter screaming abuse at the guy while having the nerve to pin an Arsenal badge to their name. That shit has to stop. Don't you think?

[Özim]

First up, the jury isn't out on Kroenke and whether his end game is to the maximum benefit of the club. The release of proper funds for a major signing was a good indicator though. I stand fully behind what I said about those who put little in and took the maximum at a time when finances were crucial. Unbelievably some are accusing Wenger of this and never a mention of the ones who pocketed ten thousand times their meagre investment. It was never about instant gratification, it was about the possibility of having the future taken away (remember the boardroom stabbings?) and the patience you mention being exchanged for a confidence trick rather than the real prize - which is the financial muscle to compete at the top of the game. The competing can't come before that, at least not on a consistent basis. One step follows the next and if the first indications are a prelude to delivering the remainder of what was promised when this project began then it's pure insanity to kick it all in at the death. For sure, it's still a risk but we're watching the big deals getting landed. We've all done the, "Are we there yet?", routine but now the answer is finally yes and we're pulling onto the driveway some stupid fuckers want to wrestle the wheel from the driver and crash the fucking car. I think it is because they have forgotten (or never knew) why they were on the journey in the first place and now they just hate the driver.

True enough, even with bolstered finances we can't dominate the criminals unless we bring our own criminal in (which I hope we don't because then everything really will have been for nothing), but we are in the game at least. We can spend as much as teams like Utd (marketing giants) and Liverpool (short termism with their finances), we can start replacing lost talent rather than selling it. We all know we are short of players in the squad and there's a blatantly obvious reason for it and that reason is about to expire. The sentient arguments about Wenger struggling as a coach (certainly not as a manager because he's proved his worth in that discipline over and over again) I understand. It could well be Wenger moves up and a more training ground focused coach with a tighter remit is brought in. That could happen. But the hatred and ridicule has gone way beyond such reasonable debates.

This guy hasn't stolen anything from the club, he's poured everything he can give into it. But we haven't managed to overcome the billionaires yet and we are still prone to the effects of underinvestment (the opportunity cost of investment elsewhere) when a few players hit the treatment table. And that's disappointing and frustrating. And it's pointed out by the "pro-Wengerites" (pro our own manager, can you believe it) in the match threads. But things go much further than that in some cases and as an example, there were so-called fans here and elsewhere joining in with the media braying at pictures of Wenger tripping and hurting himself. That suggests more that a desire to see to see Cazorla play centrally or a trophy being won. This suggests something nasty that no real fan would ever want a part of surely? Plus all the other stuff. We can have as many disagreements about the club and how it is run, managed, coached as we want because it's a free world. But there's also the facts to balance the criticism, what Wenger has put into this club and what he has achieved not just in the early years but also over the last decade. Who else could have done it? Seriously. Who else?

If he's to go on his way after almost two decades of service to the club then is it completely unreasonable to afford him the acknowledgement he thoroughly deserves? From what I gather you say yes and that's good. For others though, I stick with what I said. Value of nothing, short term gratification, bragging rights for those who probably don't have a clue how to measure an achievement. They could never be Norwich fans, could they? Seems to me they can't even be Arsenal fans.

You paint AW to almost being a victim in all this, a guy who grafted for years with no reward, there's no doubt AW achieved great things in the first part of his spell at Arsenal, brilliant football, success left right and centre noone can take that away from him.

I do have an issue with this picture you seem to paint of a man who works himself to the bone and is essentially, he's given a lot to Arsenal but let's be honest here it's not without reward he's a multimillionaire because of it and one of the best paid managers in world football, he's got a lot from this club as well, years of loyalty (something most managers dream about) and a lifestyle most people can only can fantasize about in their wildest dreams.

Sometimes you have to look at it for what it is, much like Brian Clough he's had his time and football has moved on and sadly he's been unable to adapt, if you switch his career round and he had 500 unsuccessful games I doubt he would have had a job with us for the second 500, no one is questioning his achievements, but after 9 years of the same patterns emerging season after season and the same problems, with injuries, transfers and collapses they're entitled to question whether he's the man to bring success back to the club.

As for the instant gratification comment (not from you) behave it's been 9 years since this great club won anything, that's too long for a club of our stature.

[KSE Comedy Club]

The suggestion is we all calm down and stop trying to hound our manager out of his job when we still have a season to complete, a vital CL spot to secure and a cup semi to play in. After that many things might happen but in the main I suppose we all want to get something positive from the run in so it would be better to get behind even a misfiring team because there's more chance of a result that way. The media and the opposition fans will do their worst anyway, media hacks and football fans like nothing better than do kick hard when somebody is down (we do it with Moyes). It's counter-productive and hurts ourselves when we join in with that shit against our own team though. And these "pro-Wengerites" will only stand more staunchly behind the manager if people inside our own camp start lobbing bricks at him. What else is expected?

Honestly, there are people hoping we miss out on the CL, people hoping we get crushed by the gypos, people posting up as much shit about Wenger as they can on our own message boards, fucks on twatter screaming abuse at the guy while having the nerve to pin an Arsenal badge to their name. That shit has to stop. Don't you think?

I cant speak for anyone else, but I agree with this post completely.

I do not wish to see the level of hatred and vitriol that is being spouted by some 'fans' at Wenger as he doesn't deserve it. I can appreciate what he has done for this magnificent club and rightly he will have his statue outside the emirates one day in recognition of his achievements.

But....and there is a but, I do feel that the end of this season is the time for him to say goodbye and walk away. I'm even starting to think that he may choose not to sign a new deal, the poor guy is looking dishevelled and broken every time we loose and he is running out of answers and ideas.

The last thing I think anyone wants is for Wenger to be sacked and look like a broken mess at the end of it all. Personally I would be disgusted if that happened.

I think we should go all out to win the FA cup, secure top 4 and then let Wenger leave by mutual consent.

Don't get me wrong, I will still come on here and moan like fuck at him when I thing he's fucked up and talked bullshit about it, but that is just venting anger at the time. I don't hate the man ffs!

The idiots that want us to fail are exactly that and nothing more.

[Power n Glory]

First up, the jury isn't out on Kroenke and whether his end game is to the maximum benefit of the club. The release of proper funds for a major signing was a good indicator though. I stand fully behind what I said about those who put little in and took the maximum at a time when finances were crucial. Unbelievably some are accusing Wenger of this and never a mention of the ones who pocketed ten thousand times their meagre investment. It was never about instant gratification, it was about the possibility of having the future taken away (remember the boardroom stabbings?) and the patience you mention being exchanged for a confidence trick rather than the real prize - which is the financial muscle to compete at the top of the game. The competing can't come before that, at least not on a consistent basis. One step follows the next and if the first indications are a prelude to delivering the remainder of what was promised when this project began then it's pure insanity to kick it all in at the death. For sure, it's still a risk but we're watching the big deals getting landed. We've all done the, "Are we there yet?", routine but now the answer is finally yes and we're pulling onto the driveway some stupid fuckers want to wrestle the wheel from the driver and crash the fucking car. I think it is because they have forgotten (or never knew) why they were on the journey in the first place and now they just hate the driver.

True enough, even with bolstered finances we can't dominate the criminals unless we bring our own criminal in (which I hope we don't because then everything really will have been for nothing), but we are in the game at least. We can spend as much as teams like Utd (marketing giants) and Liverpool (short termism with their finances), we can start replacing lost talent rather than selling it. We all know we are short of players in the squad and there's a blatantly obvious reason for it and that reason is about to expire. The sentient arguments about Wenger struggling as a coach (certainly not as a manager because he's proved his worth in that discipline over and over again) I understand. It could well be Wenger moves up and a more training ground focused coach with a tighter remit is brought in. That could happen. But the hatred and ridicule has gone way beyond such reasonable debates.

This guy hasn't stolen anything from the club, he's poured everything he can give into it. But we haven't managed to overcome the billionaires yet and we are still prone to the effects of underinvestment (the opportunity cost of investment elsewhere) when a few players hit the treatment table. And that's disappointing and frustrating. And it's pointed out by the "pro-Wengerites" (pro our own manager, can you believe it) in the match threads. But things go much further than that in some cases and as an example, there were so-called fans here and elsewhere joining in with the media braying at pictures of Wenger tripping and hurting himself. That suggests more that a desire to see to see Cazorla play centrally or a trophy being won. This suggests something nasty that no real fan would ever want a part of surely? Plus all the other stuff. We can have as many disagreements about the club and how it is run, managed, coached as we want because it's a free world. But there's also the facts to balance the criticism, what Wenger has put into this club and what he has achieved not just in the early years but also over the last decade. Who else could have done it? Seriously. Who else?

If he's to go on his way after almost two decades of service to the club then is it completely unreasonable to afford him the acknowledgement he thoroughly deserves? From what I gather you say yes and that's good. For others though, I stick with what I said. Value of nothing, short term gratification, bragging rights for those who probably don't have a clue how to measure an achievement. They could never be Norwich fans, could they? Seems to me they can't even be Arsenal fans.

Wenger will get his due credit when he finally steps down or a few years after he's gone. That's just the way these things can work when things are heated. People will look back on the memories and remember the glory years. It's like any relationship that's gone the distance. Ups and downs. At the moment it's on a down and you can't really take to heart some of the extreme comments. It's impossible to police that over the net. Just look at the back and forth that goes on here regarding certain players past and present. There is outright disrespect and disdain expressed in some of the comments reserved for players and Board members that represent Arsenal. You yourself get involved in that sort of talk and the same guys that may agree with you about an underperforming Giroud/Walcott or Gazidis/Kronke may have no reservations about sticking it to an underperforming manager. Where do you draw the line? It's pointless trying to police it. Just steer the conversation in a new direction. That's a side issue anyway.

The main point is where do we go now with Wenger? I disagree with your point about us pulling into the driveway and we're trying to wrestle the wheel from the driver. If Wenger stepping down were to result in us falling to pieces, then this whole stadium move was pretty pointless. It's supposed to secure our position as an elite club for years after Wenger. When this move was planned over 10 years ago, we couldn't predict the changes to the game and we may need to adjust slightly. Wenger will have to adjust or the game will bypass him. His training methods and tactics used in the late 90s won't work today. The transfer market strategy that worked then won't work now. Given the outcry by the fans, it's pretty clear that we want a change but will he respond and just plod along as if he doesn't need to adjust? It's like last nights game. The most frustrating thing is to see no response or adjustment and that just ticks people off.

[selassie]

Wenger will get his due credit when he finally steps down or a few years after he's gone. That's just the way these things can work when things are heated. People will look back on the memories and remember the glory years. It's like any relationship that's gone the distance. Ups and downs. At the moment it's on a down and you can't really take to heart some of the extreme comments. It's impossible to police that over the net. Just look at the back and forth that goes on here regarding certain players past and present. There is outright disrespect and disdain expressed in some of the comments reserved for players and Board members that represent Arsenal. You yourself get involved in that sort of talk and the same guys that may agree with you about an underperforming Giroud/Walcott or Gazidis/Kronke may have no reservations about sticking it to an underperforming manager. Where do you draw the line? It's pointless trying to police it. Just steer the conversation in a new direction. That's a side issue anyway.

The main point is where do we go now with Wenger? I disagree with your point about us pulling into the driveway and we're trying to wrestle the wheel from the driver. If Wenger stepping down were to result in us falling to pieces, then this whole stadium move was pretty pointless. It's supposed to secure our position as an elite club for years after Wenger. When this move was planned over 10 years ago, we couldn't predict the changes to the game and we may need to adjust slightly. Wenger will have to adjust or the game will bypass him. His training methods and tactics used in the late 90s won't work today. The transfer market strategy that worked then won't work now. Given the outcry by the fans, it's pretty clear that we want a change but will he respond and just plod along as if he doesn't need to adjust? It's like last nights game. The most frustrating thing is to see no response or adjustment and that just ticks people off.

:gp:

Excellent post P'n'G.

Totally agree with all of it.

[Zerlathon]

Although I do believe that Wenger should shoulder some of the blame, I do not think it is entirely his fault.

I get the impression that the Board have this blind optimism that Wenger does everything right (whether this is fuelled by the revenue his business dealings generate is for another debate). I don't believe that Bould falls into this category, but when you have 20 other people going yes to everything you say with only 1 saying otherwise, then human nature usually leans towards the majority.

It's almost as if Wenger has become a bratty childhood star surrounded by a bunch of "Yes Men" and he's ignoring his 1 true Friend.

I wholeheartedly agree that things need to change, but I do not believe that this should be the Manager...

Personally, I think they should bring Dein back as well as allow Usamov to be part of the Board (which I know alot of people will disagree with).

Dein & Wenger were a perfect match, as they are both Friends and trust eachother wholeheartedly. I don't get the impression that Wenger feels the same with Gazidis, so he's trying to shoulder too much of the burden. The drop in form at Arsenal has been on a steady decline since his departure, and I do not believe it was simply coincidence.

The whole matter about our fractured ownership is almost laughable. It's like watching a bunch of kids arguing about who gets to next play on the swing. Let him come aboard and put his money where his mouth is. Worry less about the needless politics and get the Club back on the road to success!

[Niall_Quinn]

Guys, we are in danger of scraping the bottom of the deepest buried barrel here. In the last couple of posts I can see there is zero actual appreciation of the good things that have happened at this club over the last years, or at least any appreciation is an impatient lip service in anticipation of some main course that is undefined and apparently left up to the gods or devils to produce. We're even suggesting opening the door to a murderer, thief, human rights abuser, why? Because he has cash. Well Wenger and the few who stuck it out now have cash too and nobody died. When Wenger leaves I certainly hope we can do the bare minimum and afford him some credit, a couple of years thereafter. Hopefully we won't congratulate ourselves too much for our restrained generosity, or maybe we will. I also hope we remember how half our fan base reacted when a few adverse chips went down but I think amnesia will be the preference. Crashing the car is a reference to the fracture between the fans, the club will go on regardless.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Guys, we are in danger of scraping the bottom of the deepest buried barrel here. In the last couple of posts I can see there is zero actual appreciation of the good things that have happened at this club over the last years, or at least any appreciation is an impatient lip service in anticipation of some main course that is undefined and apparently left up to the gods or devils to produce. We're even suggesting opening the door to a murderer, thief, human rights abuser, why? Because he has cash. Well Wenger and the few who stuck it out now have cash too and nobody died. When Wenger leaves I certainly hope we can do the bare minimum and afford him some credit, a couple of years thereafter. Hopefully we won't congratulate ourselves too much for our restrained generosity, or maybe we will. I also hope we remember how half our fan base reacted when a few adverse chips went down but I think amnesia will be the preference. Crashing the car is a reference to the fracture between the fans, the club will go on regardless.

I think the point they're trying to make, or at least the point that is the most sensible angle regarding the Wenger debate, is that the manager oversaw the stadium move. He was the only manager in the world that could have kept us in the top 4 whilst paying the stadium debt off. Now we're virtually debt free and have reached the land of promise i.e. summer 2014 (which may I add, Gazidis and co kept banging on about as it was apparently the time the financial shackles would come off), the question is whether Wenger can help us push on and go back to winning trophies or whether he has taken this team as far as he can.

In this debate there are 2 arguments:
1. If Wenger leaves, we could nosedive. His grip at the club has been unhealthy, literally running every aspect of it. If someone with so much control leaves, it's only natural for the team to nosedive. As such, many don't want him to leave. If Wenger stays, he could use our accumulated money to help us push on. If he was present during our drought and poverty, then he should be allowed to spend the money when we've moved into prosperity.
2. He has been caught out in big games over the years. He does not invest in players. The squad seems to melt at the crucial point of a season. He is now the problem rather than the solution. It's a perfectly reasonable argument to make after years of crap and disappointment, people have had enough of embarrassing 4th placed finishes.

But if we go onto win the FA cup it would mark a new mentality among these players. It would mean the players trust Wenger in terms of trophy delivery, and it would also mean the players would believe in themselves. So far it has all been talk but we have a chance to put it into practice by winning the FA cup this season. If we fail to win the cup, then I think it means Wenger has taken the team as far as he can. He said he was here to leave a legacy and he has certainly achieved that. If we win the FA cup, then as Lettuce says, it would be silly to get rid of him as many of the players have been waiting to win a trophy under Wenger so leaving when they've finally achieved that would be self-defeating. Wenger could build on the FA cup and give the league a better shot next season.

Whether he stays or goes rests on the FA cup, and no matter how silly that sounds in the grand scheme of things, that is the truth.

[Zerlathon]

Guys, we are in danger of scraping the bottom of the deepest buried barrel here. In the last couple of posts I can see there is zero actual appreciation of the good things that have happened at this club over the last years, or at least any appreciation is an impatient lip service in anticipation of some main course that is undefined and apparently left up to the gods or devils to produce. We're even suggesting opening the door to a murderer, thief, human rights abuser, why? Because he has cash. Well Wenger and the few who stuck it out now have cash too and nobody died. When Wenger leaves I certainly hope we can do the bare minimum and afford him some credit, a couple of years thereafter. Hopefully we won't congratulate ourselves too much for our restrained generosity, or maybe we will. I also hope we remember how half our fan base reacted when a few adverse chips went down but I think amnesia will be the preference. Crashing the car is a reference to the fracture between the fans, the club will go on regardless.

Zero appreciation? Perhaps I didn't really explain myself properly (can only really post on my break, so am a little rushed)...

Wenger - He will always have my respect, as he has done amazing things for Arsenal. I cannot think of a Manager who has done so much for a Club as he has. I think that there needs to be a change in the attitude behind closed doors, as I don't believe that there are many behind who are willing to point out the flaws in Wenger's philosophy in the modern game. Sure it worked a decade ago, but that is quite some time ago and people are used to it. You're never going to get better if there is nobody close to you telling you that you are doing something wrong. As I said before, I would like Wenger to stay!

Usamov - Yeah I can see how that can be perceived wrong (to which I apologise). Let me just clarify, I don't like him as an individual and his morals and business etiquette are questionable (to say the least). I did not mean that I want Arsenal to spend any of his cash, I just find it frustrating that he can spout all this crap to the Media about how he loves Arsenal and wants them to succeed, but at the same time hiding behind the "well I'm not part of the board so I can't do anything" when shit hits the fan. Ideally, I would prefer that he sold his shares and went elsewhere, but that is unlikely to happen anytime soon. I just feel that the effort spent with all the politics could be better invested in taking the Club forward.

I hope that explains my position a little further.

[Niall_Quinn]

Zero appreciation? Perhaps I didn't really explain myself properly (can only really post on my break, so am a little rushed)...

Wenger - He will always have my respect, as he has done amazing things for Arsenal. I cannot think of a Manager who has done so much for a Club as he has. I think that there needs to be a change in the attitude behind closed doors, as I don't believe that there are many behind who are willing to point out the flaws in Wenger's philosophy in the modern game. Sure it worked a decade ago, but that is quite some time ago and people are used to it. You're never going to get better if there is nobody close to you telling you that you are doing something wrong. As I said before, I would like Wenger to stay!

Usamov - Yeah I can see how that can be perceived wrong (to which I apologise). Let me just clarify, I don't like him as an individual and his morals and business etiquette are questionable (to say the least). I did not mean that I want Arsenal to spend any of his cash, I just find it frustrating that he can spout all this crap to the Media about how he loves Arsenal and wants them to succeed, but at the same time hiding behind the "well I'm not part of the board so I can't do anything" when shit hits the fan. Ideally, I would prefer that he sold his shares and went elsewhere, but that is unlikely to happen anytime soon. I just feel that the effort spent with all the politics could be better invested in taking the Club forward.

I hope that explains my position a little further.

Mixed response to two posts, I didn't detect a lack of appreciation for Wenger's efforts in your post. It was the Usmanov thing that floored me - didn't realise you were advocating unity by getting rid of him. Agreed, two masters is very counterproductive.