Match reaction vs. Everton

[cheesy bites]

Fuck off everyone at Arsenal

[Injury Time]

Fuck off everyone at Arsenal

Sound like they already did tbh.

[Marc Overmars]

Rancid, again.

I half expected us to bottle the title race but to now seemingly have no desire for the 4th place trophy? Sickening.

Another impressive collapse to add to the hall of fame, or should that be shame?

[Bumble]

that was abysmal at no point did we look threatening. we might be missing a lot of players but our team would have cost more and earned more.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Dreadful.

[LDG]

Disgrace.

[Niall_Quinn]

Must be such a shock to wake up and find yourself 3-0 down in a footy match. I really feel for the poor players.

Biggest purchase in the summer? Alarm clocks.

Giroud had a lie in with his whore, that didn't help either. He'll be awake around 8pm - Part-ay.

[Bumble]

Rancid, again.

I half expected us to bottle the title race but to now seemingly have no desire for the 4th place trophy? Sickening.

Another impressive collapse to add to the hall of fame, or should that be shame?
maybe they are just saving themselves for the cup semi where we tear wigan to bits to win 1-0

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Horrendous. There's a malaise at the club.

[Tipsychubbs]

The defence may be starting to collapse now, but its generally been good throughout the season.

I always thought this style of play was tactically poor, too conservative and one dimensional, even when we were winning; I knew it would get us into trouble later on in the season.

There's hardly any attacking threat and teams know that. And with the previously good defence now unravelling its doubly worse.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Horrid to say the least.......there seems to be few with any fire left in their belly.....need our GHELs that's for sure.

[Maestro]

Horrendous. There's a malaise at the club.

a very deep one, and there's now only one solution

[Marc Overmars]

that was abysmal at no point did we look threatening. we might be missing a lot of players but our team would have cost more and earned more.

It's evident this side has no clue what to do. That's not come about because Chelsea and City have spent trillions, it's because the manager doesn't have a handle on things anymore.

Wigan will give us the run around next week. We'll probably win but it's going to be pretty ugly.

[Niall_Quinn]

a very deep one, and there's now only one solution

Ban Zimm?

[Niall_Quinn]

It's evident this side has no clue what to do. That's not come about because Chelsea and City have spent trillions, it's because the manager doesn't have a handle on things anymore.

Wigan will give us the run around next week. We'll probably win but it's going to be pretty ugly.

Ox knew what to do. Some of these players are weak. Cazorla is one of them.

[adzzzbatch]

The defence may be starting to collapse now, but its generally been good throughout the season.

I always thought this style of play was tactically poor, too conservative and one dimensional, even when we were winning; I knew it would get us into trouble later on in the season.

There's hardly any attacking threat and teams know that. And with the previously good defence now unravelling its doubly worse.

All the positives we had at the beginning and in the mid point have gone. This season is no improvement on last.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Fuck off everyone at Arsenal

Quite.

[Maestro]

Hire Zimm as manager?


well

[RomfordPele]

Nothing to add on the shit show we've just seen.

We badly need our players back. Anyone sign of when ozil, kos, jack will be back? We'll be a different prospect with them in the team.

Or are they resting up for the World Cup?

[Maestro]

It's evident this side has no clue what to do. That's not come about because Chelsea and City have spent trillions, it's because the manager doesn't have a handle on things anymore.

Wigan will give us the run around next week. We'll probably win but it's going to be pretty ugly.

simply put that's what it is

[Niall_Quinn]

All the positives we had at the beginning and in the mid point have gone. This season is no improvement on last.

Monreal instead of Gibbs - disaster
Vermaelen instead of Kos - disaster

Defence has been good in the main but only when our good players are playing. When they aren't we drop off a cliff.

Ball retention - No Ozil, no Ramsey - the rest can't do it.

Up top - Giroud already on his holidays with his prostitute, Sanogo the postman lottery winner as a backup and Bendtner drunk and rubbing himself off? Enough said.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Nothing to add on the shit show we've just seen.

We badly need our players back. Anyone sign of when ozil, kos, jack will be back? We'll be a different prospect with them in the team.

Or are they resting up for the World Cup?

Kos returning will hopefully stablise the defence but the other two won't improve us. We had the same problems in attack even with them in. A LACK OF FUCKING PACE.


Honestly it's criminal that Wenger built a team that relied only on one player to make penetrating fast runs.

[Özim]

Didn't see the game, but from the result it looks like the team and manager have embrassed the club once again, when will it all end?

[AFC Leveller]

The man in charge has got to take responsability and go. He has been given a lot of time to do what he wanted and hasnt dleievred. the way his teams collapse when it matters is fucking shocking.

Any other club and he'd have been sacked ages ago.

[Globalgunner]

If Wenger had any once of self respect he would resign now and let Bould see the season through. Give us the latitude to attract whomever we want next season. Absolutely disgraceful performance

[Niall_Quinn]

Didn't see the game, but from the result it looks like the team and manager have embrassed the club once again, when will it all end?

Lucky escape. 90 minutes of the manager and players wiping their shitty arses in the shirt.

[Master Splinter]

Time for Coyle.

Ramsey looked good though.

And Sanogo scored a goal!

[Munchies]

Lose against Wigan, and Wenger is gone.

Who wants it to happen ? :coffee:

I want us to win the fa cup, but he has to leave. Enough is enough.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

The manager could have been a crash dummy for all the life in him on the sides. Didn't even toy with his zipper for light entertainment.

Made Barkley look like Zidane....again.

[fakeyank]

Gotta sign Wenger up asap. He is the only savior for our football club.

Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

[Niall_Quinn]

If Wenger had any once of self respect he would resign now and let Bould see the season through. Give us the latitude to attract whomever we want next season. Absolutely disgraceful performance

Bould would attract precisely zero top names in the transfer window. Whatever people think of Wenger, players want to come here because of him. Problem is a lot of them don't seem to want to play for him when they get here.

[RomfordPele]

Kos returning will hopefully stablise the defence but the other two won't improve us. We had the same problems in attack even with them in. A LACK OF FUCKING PACE.


Honestly it's criminal that Wenger built a team that relied only on one player to make penetrating fast runs.

With Ramsey I'm fairly confident they will be good enough against the teams we've got left. But I agree wenger should have gone out and bought pace in January once theo did his knee in.

Is gnabry injured? Ox?

There are options, it's just that wenger ain't picking them.

[Niall_Quinn]

Lose against Wigan, and Wenger is gone.

Who wants it to happen ? :coffee:

I want us to win the fa cup, but he has to leave. Enough is enough.

No proper Arsenal fan, I'd assume.

[Niall_Quinn]

Time for Coyle.

Ramsey looked good though.

And Sanogo scored a goal!

Ramsey looked about 2 yards off the pace, understandably. But his levels of composure and his willingness to move the ball forward were magnitudes greater than the mob already out there, bar maybe Rosicky.

Ox looked like he was playing by himself. And sadly he was more effective as a result.

[Power n Glory]

Didn't see the game, but from the result it looks like the team and manager have embrassed the club once again, when will it all end?

The home crowd were chanting 'Olay' for each successful Everton pass. A few of their players were doing step overs and cheeky skills. It was an embarrassment and we were dominated.

[Niall_Quinn]

With Ramsey I'm fairly confident they will be good enough against the teams we've got left. But I agree wenger should have gone out and bought pace in January once theo did his knee in.

Is gnabry injured? Ox?

There are options, it's just that wenger ain't picking them.

The stats package hasn't been updated yet. Next year they will be picked.

[AFC Leveller]

Every manager is outwitting wenger and exploiting his weaknesses. The top managers stufy their opponents and have a game plan in place. Wenger doesnt thought because he's fucking arrogant and has "managed for 30 years".

Arteta, Monreal, Cazorla, Vermaelen etc all should be sold. no passion for the shirt.

[Globalgunner]

Bould would attract precisely zero top names in the transfer window. Whatever people think of Wenger, players want to come here because of him. Problem is a lot of them don't seem to want to play for him when they get here.
You read my post and interpret that.? Should I call the doctor or will you

[Özim]

Lucky escape. 90 minutes of the manager and players wiping their shitty arses in the shirt.

Surprised to be honest, I thought at worst we'd get a draw, our record against Everton is good, not this season obviously where they've taken 4 points from us now.

[Bumble]

No proper Arsenal fan, I'd assume.
exactly, you always want arsenal to win but winning the FA Cup and scrapping fourth shouldn't automatically mean Wenger gets another contract. I do wonder what he Wenger is feeling, he sits down each and every game and sees the same things we do that the team just don't play. We haven't played well this year since Ramsey got injured. Ramsey is still our 2nd leading scorer in the league and hasn't played for three months. we need Walcott or someone like that as we can counter and that allows teams to press us higher up the pitch.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger hasn't got a clue what he's doing.

[Niall_Quinn]

You read my post and interpret that.? Should I call the doctor or will you

No no doctor needed, just worked through the practicalities instead of ignoring them. World Cup, one window to find a new manager AND sign top players to repair a threadbare squad. We struggle in the transfer window when things are settled. Add more shit on top and the summer would be a disaster.

[Bumble]

No no doctor needed, just worked through the practicalities instead of ignoring them. World Cup, one window to find a new manager AND sign top players to repair a threadbare squad. We struggle in the transfer window when things are settled. Add more shit on top and the summer would be a disaster.

the decision will be wengers anyway, the board wont want to change him if we finish 4th as they will look at what has happened at united and this squad is probably in a similar position. if we finish 5th wenger should go simple as that.

we should have signed suarez for £50m only £8m more than we paid for Ozil.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Ox knew what to do. Some of these players are weak. Cazorla is one of them.

We need him to start against Wigan

[GP]

these players should be ashamed. How can they de so insipid away from home?

There's not even any point in pointing fingers, they were all hopeless.

[Globalgunner]

No no doctor needed, just worked through the practicalities instead of ignoring them. World Cup, one window to find a new manager AND sign top players to repair a threadbare squad. We struggle in the transfer window when things are settled. Add more shit on top and the summer would be a disaster.

Keeping Wenger is not an option, even you should see that by now. Him leave G now would enable us sell a project to a new manager. We need a new manager much more than we need new players

[Burley Gooner]

Terrible performance today. Certain individuals are not stepping up, and certain individuals are not good enough to play for arsenal.

[Niall_Quinn]

we should have signed suarez for £50m only £8m more than we paid for Ozil.

Was thinking the same thing just this morning, before being subjected to another dose of Giroud.

Should have bid 50,60,70 until we got him. AND signed Ozil. We knew the big deals were being landed so no real risk.

Worst offence of the season (no pun intended) - not signing that top striker.

Horrible rumours about Cavani, Manduzic and other hyped lumps who can do well where they play but wouldn't stand a chance in our negative league. We need pace as well as peerless individual talent. And the guy needs to be a nasty win at all costs bastard too. It was Suarez.

Now apparently the gypos are going in with a money no object, tax and beat the poor, make them build another pyramid for free offer to lure him away. Will probably be the first £100mill all-in bid.

[fakeyank]

Arsenes legacy unfortunately will be that of a specialist in failure

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[Niall_Quinn]

We need him to start against Wigan

Ox or Cazorla? Because Cazorla didn't start today either.

[Niall_Quinn]

Arsenes legacy unfortunately will be that of a specialist in failure

Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

Only if we all suck that cunt Maureen's cock like some are already doing.

[hobson's choice]

Ox knew what to do. Some of these players are weak. Cazorla is one of them.

Most of our players are good players, but they just shouldn't be playing with each other. Even when we were winning, the attack still didn't look right. Not much cohesion, movement, weren't creating many chances, still very predictable, most of the goals just came out of nowhere, or just random great individual play.

[fakeyank]

Only if we all suck that cunt Maureen's cock like some are already doing.

Yumm... delicious!

[Burley Gooner]

On our current form, the Wigan tie is going to be so tough. Wenger will be a WUM and play the same first eleven as he did today bar one (hopefully koz will be back), and employ the same tactics, which leaves us open to counter attcaking football.

[Niall_Quinn]

Keeping Wenger is not an option, even you should see that by now. Him leave G now would enable us sell a project to a new manager. We need a new manager much more than we need new players

Bringing in top quality signings is the priority that trumps all others. Repairing the quality of the squad. That's what will genuinely move us forward. Why make negatives the priority?

[hobson's choice]

Arsenes legacy unfortunately will be that of a specialist in failure

Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

Essentially Arsene needs to do what United, and Fergie did, and bring in a Queiroz type, he was the tactical brains during that period

[Marc Overmars]

Most of our players are good players, but they just shouldn't be playing with each other. Even when we were winning, the attack still didn't look right. Not much cohesion, movement, weren't creating many chances, still very predictable, most of the goals just came out of nowhere, or just random great individual play.

It was the defence that gave us the platform with all those narrow wins but now they've unfortunately cracked, so the flaws have been totally exposed.

[ENSKIED]

Was thinking the same thing just this morning, before being subjected to another dose of Giroud.

Should have bid 50,60,70 until we got him. AND signed Ozil. We knew the big deals were being landed so no real risk.

Worst offence of the season (no pun intended) - not signing that top striker.

Horrible rumours about Cavani, Manduzic and other hyped lumps who can do well where they play but wouldn't stand a chance in our negative league. We need pace as well as peerless individual talent. And the guy needs to be a nasty win at all costs bastard too. It was Suarez.

Now apparently the gypos are going in with a money no object, tax and beat the poor, make them build another pyramid for free offer to lure him away. Will probably be the first £100mill all-in bid.

In relation to Suarez, given the EUFA FFP and their income it should be next to impossible for them unless of course . . . . . .

[Ollie the Optimist]

Arsenes legacy unfortunately will be that of a specialist in failure

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no it won't and if Arsenal fans do think of that as his legacy then they are completely blinkered.

[Ollie the Optimist]

i didn't watch the game but when i checked the score and found us 3 nil down, i wasn't even shocked. That pretty much sums it all up. the players clearly don't give a shit, they just don't turn up, there is very little you can do as a manager from the sidelines when that happens but also for the manager there is not excuse for wrong tactics, doing what hasn't worked in any big games away this season again, and no subs. Im not even sure i want Arsene to be charge the next game, just because I'm convinced the players will bottle the semi because its a big game.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Lose against Wigan, and Wenger is gone.

Who wants it to happen ? :coffee:

I want us to win the fa cup, but he has to leave. Enough is enough.

No one does bar fans of other clubs. And its a stupid point to make

[Burley Gooner]

i didn't watch the game but when i checked the score and found us 3 nil down, i wasn't even shocked. That pretty much sums it all up. the players clearly don't give a shit, they just don't turn up, there is very little you can do as a manager from the sidelines when that happens but also for the manager there is not excuse for wrong tactics, doing what hasn't worked in any big games away this season again, and no subs. Im not even sure i want Arsene to be charge the next game, just because I'm convinced the players will bottle the semi because its a big game.

I don't understand why Wenger takes so long to make changes, when he can clearly see that things are not working on the pitch. Mourinho would've hauled off players before half time and changed things. We've got no plan B either.

[RomfordPele]

the players clearly don't give a shit, they just don't turn up, there is very little you can do as a manager from the sidelines when that happens

There is something you can do as a manager. You can drop them.

However, I agree that this is something that's difficult to do when you basically sat on your hands in the summer and throughout January instead of buying high quality replacements.

[fakeyank]

no it won't and if Arsenal fans do think of that as his legacy then they are completely blinkered.

If we continue with Wenger for the foreseeable future (highly likely), that will be his legacy unfortunately.
One thing is for sure.. there is no way we are improving with this manager in charge.

[fakeyank]

There is something you can do as a manager. You can drop them.

However, I agree that this is something that's difficult to do when you basically sat on your hands in the summer and throughout January instead of buying high quality replacements.

Replacements can do fuck all if your tactics are worse than a paraplegic! Our football is an image of the manager- clueless.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

We are giving Wenger a lot of stick....and rightly so for the most part. The players managed to physically turn up without actually turning up.....but let's not forget the fact NO manager would settle for this squad.

Mourinho has been complaining about his strikeforce on a weekly basis.....and that is despite them being in the title race and us trying to sign their 3rd choice striker who would probably be first choice here. No top manager would settle for the squad we have with the resources we have....so the fact Wenger sits there and plods along pretending he can win major things with this group is farcical.

Even sir purplenose wouldn't have won the league with this lot in reality. Not with the hair dryer treatment, squeaky anus analogies and all the other frills to go along.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

We need a new manager much more than we need new players

This ^^

Nothing more needs to be said.

[BlindFaith_8]

Gutless performance which we have seen on countless times. Nothing willl change until the manager walks away at the end of this season. We need a complete overhaul from the manager, coaches, trainers and medical team, but above all we need to get rid of the dead wood that AW brought to the club who are simply not good enough to take us higher than 4th place.

[selassie]

This team is broken mentally. They are done for the season.

I agree with BlindFaith's post above, we need a complete overhaul, for me Wenger is a dead man walking, he absolutely has to go.

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkjT-uRCYAAHSTJ.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCMAOiIP1xI

:blah:

[GP]

Lose against Wigan, and Wenger is gone.

Who wants it to happen ? :coffee:

I want us to win the fa cup, but he has to leave. Enough is enough.

You know less than Jon Snow.

[Marc Overmars]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkjT-uRCYAAHSTJ.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCMAOiIP1xI

:blah:

Everton players busting a gut for their manager.

Our players off on their holidays.

[Chippy]

I don't understand why Wenger takes so long to make changes, when he can clearly see that things are not working on the pitch. Mourinho would've hauled off players before half time and changed things. We've got no plan B either.
We have not had a plan B for years!! How often do we come back from being a goal down? Wenger has lost the fucking plot! Not looking forward to playing on Thursday nights next season in Europe FFS!

[Chippy]

Replacements can do fuck all if your tactics are worse than a paraplegic! Our football is an image of the manager- clueless.
Too right. He has not got a clue!

[Munchies]

-Wenger needs to walk away.
-Arteta/Podolski/Giroud/Monreal need to leave.
-Cazorla needs to be a bench player.

Ches

Gibbs / New LB seeing as he's always injured
Kosc
BFG
Sagna / New RB if he leaves

Ramsey
New CDM

New LW
Ozil
Walcott

New striker.

---

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bki6vZHIQAEHgiY.jpg
Home games should hopefully get us 4th , and if City/United can make them drop points.

[Özim]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkjT-uRCYAAHSTJ.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCMAOiIP1xI

:blah:

He doesn't know, it's difficult to say and he doesn't want to talk about it. :yawn:

Somehow we've gone from challenging for the title to a battle to even get 4th place, how predictable, you could just see what would happen when we saw our run in, the usual bottle job we've seen repeatedly over the last 9 years and the one constant of course is Wenger who has nothing to say about it.

After all that a bit of honesty and some harsh words about the team from the man wouldn't go amiss, let's be honest even if he does do it behind closed doors it has no effect as we've seen no reaction from his team ever after absolute thrashings, but of course he was proud of them so that's OK.

[Burley Gooner]

We have not had a plan B for years!! How often do we come back from being a goal down? Wenger has lost the fucking plot! Not looking forward to playing on Thursday nights next season in Europe FFS!

I think we will pinch fourth place on the last day by a point. Luckily for us, Everton still need to play Man Citeh and Yernited!

Back to Wenge losing the plotr: His tactics are unbelievable. He takes off Flamini, but why not Arteta? Why play Cazorla on the wing? Giroud can't play in a 4-5-1 or a 4-3-3, as he's too damn slow and can't stretch the opposition defence. People will say that he lays the ball off well and wins headers to bring our players into to the game, I'm sorry, that's just very basic football skills. He is on the pitch to score, and he can't even do this at the moment. Yeah he has a good tally of goals, but examine the distribution of goals....he doesn't score in big games and is not dynamic enough to create his own chances. Look at how Lukaku plays.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nine figure expenditure in the summer or everyone GTFO - and I don't mean £9 on Sanogo's milkman.

[Munchies]

When Ramsey came on, he tried to pave a way forward, but most other players didn't even bother making the runs for his through balls. Shockingly bad.

[Niall_Quinn]

Let's not go too far, Ramsey was understandably well behind the pace. He was positive but starting with him wouldn't have changed anything and he'll need games to get his fitness back. Plus he'll need better players than that around him. Play Monreal in the Invincibles and we wouldn't have gone 2 games unbeaten, let alone a season. Giroud is also on holiday. We won't see the same effect from Ramsey because too many good players are out and too many starters haven't the guts for the long fight. One or two players can't do it on their own.

[Munchies]

I know, I wasn't expecting too much from him, given 3 months out, but he did play a few good passes when he came on which no one even tried to run onto.

[IBK]

It's sad to say it, but Wenger has become almost worthy of pity. He is a man clinging stubbornly to a football philiosophy that has been overtaken. And his players aren't even trying to prove him right.

[Power n Glory]

How many times have we seen other players collapse like this? Under Henry as captain, Gallas, Fabregas, RVP....they all had these sort of games where they looked out of their depth. I see people blaming the players saying they don't give a shit, but I find it hard to belive, especially for this particular group of players. What they lacked on the field quality wise compared to the attacking finesse of the past era, they made up for in fight and spirit. That was the common theme I'd hear people regularly agree on here but now I'm hearing people say they don't give a shit. That can't possibly be true. Not at this stage in the season. They're just lost and mentally gone.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I would tend to agree.

[Bumble]

that's very true, up to Christmas everyone was very happy with how things were going. the streamlining of the squad over the summer getting rid of most of the deadwood. A good attitude in games, a tight defence and a willingness to keep going and fight to the end. Now this team is no different to seasons past... well perhaps worse as we have been smashed 4 times this season and 3 times in the last 5 away games.

or perhaps we were where we were purely on the back of Ramseys amazing form.

[Letters]

that's very true, up to Christmas everyone was very happy with how things were going. the streamlining of the squad over the summer getting rid of most of the deadwood. A good attitude in games, a tight defence and a willingness to keep going and fight to the end. Now this team is no different to seasons past... well perhaps worse as we have been smashed 4 times this season and 3 times in the last 5 away games.

or perhaps we were where we were purely on the back of Ramseys amazing form.
Even after that though we were hanging in there. With 9 games to go we were 4 points off the top. We were level on points with Liverpool, Chelsea were 4 points above us but we had a game in hand over them. Liverpool got 12 points in the following 4 games, we got 2. We had harder games but still. It's pretty pathetic.

I didn't think we had enough to win the title but we were on course for somewhere in the region of 80 points which would have been a big improvement on last year. I didn't expect us to collapse this badly, I don't think even the real doom-mongers on here would claim to have thought it would be quite this bad.

An improvement in the league and the FA Cup and I'd have declared it a pretty successful season. Now...well, we could still win the FA Cup and that would bring back some feelgood factor but right now it's all pretty depressing, especially as we've been here so many times before.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Do. Not. Bottle. The. FA. Cup.

[Maestro]

http://www.euroasiaindustry.com/workspace/uploads/coca-cola-large.jpg


Do. Not. Bottle. The. FA. Cup.

[Gooner23]

It's sad to say it, but Wenger has become almost worthy of pity. He is a man clinging stubbornly to a football philiosophy that has been overtaken. And his players aren't even trying to prove him right.

Listening to his post match interview you can tell how much these defeats are hurting him. Putting aside his faults, the players need to take a look at themselves. They may not be getting the tactical direction they need, but these are seasoned professionals who look like they dont give a crap. Really poor all round.

[IBK]

that's very true, up to Christmas everyone was very happy with how things were going. the streamlining of the squad over the summer getting rid of most of the deadwood. A good attitude in games, a tight defence and a willingness to keep going and fight to the end. Now this team is no different to seasons past... well perhaps worse as we have been smashed 4 times this season and 3 times in the last 5 away games.

or perhaps we were where we were purely on the back of Ramseys amazing form.

No. This is what can happen with a team of talented players - who can believe in themselves while the going is good. But with Wenger's system - (a) It needs to work perfectly in order to deliver results. (b) It needs players on top form; no injuries. (c) It needs other teams to give us space to work. Whatever Wenger is trying to do - it is simply not enough to succeed now that the game has moved on.

[IBK]

Listening to his post match interview you can tell how much these defeats are hurting him. Putting aside his faults, the players need to take a look at themselves. They may not be getting the tactical direction they need, but these are seasoned professionals who look like they dont give a crap. Really poor all round.

Like I say - it must kill him to see the players he has invested so much with fail to repay his faith. But they are products of his choosing. And feeling sorry for Wenger has this caveat.

[Özim]

Listening to his post match interview you can tell how much these defeats are hurting him. Putting aside his faults, the players need to take a look at themselves. They may not be getting the tactical direction they need, but these are seasoned professionals who look like they dont give a crap. Really poor all round.

The issue for me is that the defeats don't hurt him enough to make him want to change things, from what I've seen within a couple games he's forgotten about a heavy defeat and is out praising the team again.

[IBK]

The issue for me is that the defeats don't hurt him enough to make him want to change things, from what I've seen within a couple games he's forgotten about a heavy defeat and is out praising the team again.

The saddest thing is that he can't change things. We are suffering from the same problems that we have faced for the last decade. The disillusionment is seeing that the obvious flaws in this team are still there.

[Ralpheroo72]

Utter shite, and yet, predictable.

[Ernesto]

I think the scary thing is just how feeble our style of football has become. Everton and Liverpool have done us in a way that was reminiscent of our great team of 97/98. Good defensive solidity backed up with swift and speedy counter attacking movement. They can beat teams 3 or 4 nil and not bat an eyelid.

Have we regressed? Is it just end-of-season mental tiredness? One thing's for certain. We have to buck our ideas up ahead of August. Will we be able to go to Anfield, the Etihad, Stamford Bridge and Goodison without the mental scar of this season's thrashings fresh in the players' memories?

Drastic personnel changes or not, the whole footballing philosophy here has to change. The fact that managers who were knocking about in the lower divisions five years ago suddenly getting the better of Wenger so easily is unnerving.

[GP]

http://media.giphy.com/media/DpB9NBjny7jF1pd0yt2/giphy.gif

[Munchies]

I think the scary thing is just how feeble our style of football has become. Everton and Liverpool have done us in a way that was reminiscent of our great team of 97/98. Good defensive solidity backed up with swift and speedy counter attacking movement. They can beat teams 3 or 4 nil and not bat an eyelid.

Have we regressed? Is it just end-of-season mental tiredness? One thing's for certain. We have to buck our ideas up ahead of August. Will we be able to go to Anfield, the Etihad, Stamford Bridge and Goodison without the mental scar of this season's thrashings fresh in the players' memories?

Drastic personnel changes or not, the whole footballing philosophy here has to change. The fact that managers who were knocking about in the lower divisions five years ago suddenly getting the better of Wenger so easily is unnerving.

Well put, I was watching Liverpool and also Everton, and the spine they have to their team is pretty good.

Decent keepers.
Solid defence (Everton more than Liverpool), and amazing full backs on BOTH sides in Baines/Coleman.
Decent midfield anchors for both teams really. Gerrard, has been used further back this season, but unlike Arteta he always drives forward.
Great wing play, not surprising what having pace and being direct can do. Lukaku isn't even a winger but he shat over Monreal today.
And strikers get you the goals, which win you the games.

We had that in Vieira, Overmars, Bergy, Wright. And then over the years added Gilberto,Pires, Freddie (who made direct runs stretching defences) and Henry.

Right now, there is nothing infront of our defence. Non existant midfield who are too slow to win the ball back, weak attacking players in Cazorla, no real width on the wings and a shit slow lamp post upfront who offers no threat. No wonder how easy it is to beat us.

[Niall_Quinn]

No. This is what can happen with a team of talented players - who can believe in themselves while the going is good. But with Wenger's system - (a) It needs to work perfectly in order to deliver results. (b) It needs players on top form; no injuries. (c) It needs other teams to give us space to work. Whatever Wenger is trying to do - it is simply not enough to succeed now that the game has moved on.

Really not sure where the idea the game has moved on is coming from. Do you mean moved backwards, because the quality on display from all teams in all countries is considerably lower than a decade ago and is a mockery compared to a couple of decades back. Back then we had skilful, direct and entertaining football (except when the Italians were playing). Now the game is pure shit, apart from the odd moments when a very (very, very) few genuinely talented individuals raise it. Players seem to be fitter, they seem to be able to run further (has this actually been tested?), but they are weaker mentally, they aren't sportsmen with a sporting philosophy, they cheat relentlessly and don't have a problem doing it. Managers pack midfields, park buses, very much in the Italian philosophy which to me is a destruction of the game rather than a step forward. The media applauds this horrendous regression judging the ends as suitable apology for the means, in most cases. Even Wenger has adopted this negative approach now, not that it works well for us. Mardrid, Bayern, Dortmund, Manchester Utd, PSG and particularly Barcelona produced cringeworthy garbage last week, as did we and the other so-called elite of the game the week before. Chelsea are a horrible team beyond compare. Liverpool and the gypos occasionally produce something worth watching in a football sense.

Do you mean Wenger hasn't tried to destroy football itself to the same degree wreckers like Mourinho has? If so, I agree and I'm happy about that. I'm hoping Wenger's preferred style fo football, or proper football if you like, will come back into fashion at some point. I'm a little sick of hearing wise pundits and media hacks talk about the modern game because the modern game is every bit as shit as they are. Do we actually want this modern game or would some entertainment and sportsmanship be the better way to go?

[Niall_Quinn]

Like I say - it must kill him to see the players he has invested so much with fail to repay his faith. But they are products of his choosing. And feeling sorry for Wenger has this caveat.

Football players need to have their knees hacked off, metaphorically speaking. They rise too far too fast and without having to deliver a fraction of what used to be required. They should be shoved into pubs after the match to face the fans. Bring them back to planet earth. because as things stand they can get away with doing pretty much nothing for the huge rewards they get. None of them are close to being worth it. These guys are surfing a broken economy and milking it for all it is worth. Football was supposed to be the working man's game - it needs to go back to that. If we want to see the effort we demand then there has to be an incentive for these kids to perform. Right now provided they have a half decent agent they can Bendtner or Diaby their way through their entire careers while the fans get ripped off from all angles for an ever inferior product. Another reason, of course, why clubs such as the chavs and the gypos are so awful for the game.

[selassie]

No. This is what can happen with a team of talented players - who can believe in themselves while the going is good. But with Wenger's system - (a) It needs to work perfectly in order to deliver results. (b) It needs players on top form; no injuries. (c) It needs other teams to give us space to work. Whatever Wenger is trying to do - it is simply not enough to succeed now that the game has moved on.

This.

Everything about Arsene and his rotten system screams of his ideals and how he wants "football" played irrespective of the outcome.

As you stated, Arsene's system relies on too many unknowns to click in order for it to be delivered correctly. I would even go one step further and say most of his buys are fairly similar (highly technical attacking midfielders) because they fit into his "idealistic, tika taka barca lite" system.

Everything he does regarding the football team reeks of somebody so far removed from reality and living in his own bubble, he's unable to build a balanced football team, our team/squad is just a sum of parts...a fantasy. Arsene's teams collapse under pressure for a reason, it's not like we are talking about the same set of players everytime, it's a character trait of his teams.

People say "give him time", "we have money now", "we can't hire a better manager than him"? blah blah blah....

I respect Arsene for his past achievements but he simply has to go now...thanks for leaving the club in great shape financially and for building a solid-ish squad, but let somebody with an open mind and different vision take over.

[Power n Glory]

Really not sure where the idea the game has moved on is coming from. Do you mean moved backwards, because the quality on display from all teams in all countries is considerably lower than a decade ago and is a mockery compared to a couple of decades back. Back then we had skilful, direct and entertaining football (except when the Italians were playing). Now the game is pure shit, apart from the odd moments when a very (very, very) few genuinely talented individuals raise it. Players seem to be fitter, they seem to be able to run further (has this actually been tested?), but they are weaker mentally, they aren't sportsmen with a sporting philosophy, they cheat relentlessly and don't have a problem doing it. Managers pack midfields, park buses, very much in the Italian philosophy which to me is a destruction of the game rather than a step forward. The media applauds this horrendous regression judging the ends as suitable apology for the means, in most cases. Even Wenger has adopted this negative approach now, not that it works well for us. Mardrid, Bayern, Dortmund, Manchester Utd, PSG and particularly Barcelona produced cringeworthy garbage last week, as did we and the other so-called elite of the game the week before. Chelsea are a horrible team beyond compare. Liverpool and the gypos occasionally produce something worth watching in a football sense.

Do you mean Wenger hasn't tried to destroy football itself to the same degree wreckers like Mourinho has? If so, I agree and I'm happy about that. I'm hoping Wenger's preferred style fo football, or proper football if you like, will come back into fashion at some point. I'm a little sick of hearing wise pundits and media hacks talk about the modern game because the modern game is every bit as shit as they are. Do we actually want this modern game or would some entertainment and sportsmanship be the better way to go?

How can the quality of football be lower than what it was two decades ago?

[fakeyank]

How can the quality of football be lower than what it was two decades ago?

Don't take his bait. He is just trying to be different and get a reaction. Just agree that it is the fault of capitalism, jose mourinho, usmanov, Abu Dhabi, sky, refs, neighbors goat etc.

[IBK]

This.

Everything about Arsene and his rotten system screams of his ideals and how he wants "football" played irrespective of the outcome.

As you stated, Arsene's system relies on too many unknowns to click in order for it to be delivered correctly. I would even go one step further and say most of his buys are fairly similar (highly technical attacking midfielders) because they fit into his "idealistic, tika taka barca lite" system.

Everything he does regarding the football team reeks of somebody so far removed from reality and living in his own bubble, he's unable to build a balanced football team, our team/squad is just a sum of parts...a fantasy. Arsene's teams collapse under pressure for a reason, it's not like we are talking about the same set of players everytime, it's a character trait of his teams.

People say "give him time", "we have money now", "we can't hire a better manager than him"? blah blah blah....

I respect Arsene for his past achievements but he simply has to go now...thanks for leaving the club in great shape financially and for building a solid-ish squad, but let somebody with an open mind and different vision take over.

Ernesto put it well when he said
The fact that managers who were knocking about in the lower divisions five years ago suddenly getting the better of Wenger so easily is unnerving.

...and NQ - AW has been excused a lot over the past few years for his principled way of going about things. And Mourinho's obvious spite stems from the fact that Wenger is still respected here despite his lack of success. We can justifiably point to the Citeh's and Chavs poisoning football. What hurts is that with fewer resources than us, Rogers; Martinez; and even the likes of Pochetino are showing that good management can breed success and a dynamic brand of football. Like it or not, the new breed of managers are playing more exciting football than us, even if they are also being tactically astute in setting teams up to play what is in front of them. It has been embarrassing seeing Arsenal so easily out-thought as well as out played.

[Niall_Quinn]

How can the quality of football be lower than what it was two decades ago?

It's a personal opinion. I think games are positively dull compared to two decades ago when the winger was common, defending was uncompromising and the striker needed to be a lot more proficient than he is now in order to get a sniff.

There's too much negativity in the current game - brought about by "progressive" coaches. It's not fun to watch. It's dull. Technically proficient maybe, like Barcelona, but uninspiring and monotonous.

[Niall_Quinn]

...and NQ - AW has been excused a lot over the past few years for his principled way of going about things. And Mourinho's obvious spite stems from the fact that Wenger is still respected here despite his lack of success. We can justifiably point to the Citeh's and Chavs poisoning football. What hurts is that with fewer resources than us, Rogers; Martinez; and even the likes of Pochetino are showing that good management can breed success and a dynamic brand of football. Like it or not, the new breed of managers are playing more exciting football than us, even if they are also being tactically astute in setting teams up to play what is in front of them. It has been embarrassing seeing Arsenal so easily out-thought as well as out played.

Yes, some managers are certainly more enterprising and ambitious with their football than Wenger is now, wouldn't argue with that. I hate watching the shit we play. But there isn't a manager anywhere who has ever produced the type of football we used to play. Granted, it's much tougher to play like that now, mainly due to the cynical approach that has come about because it is now so vital to win or get fourth or stay up or whatever the financial goal happens to be. This is what I mean when I say people shouldn't be so quick to applaud the modern game. Yes it is modern and it gets results, but it's boring and one of the key ingredients of any form of entertainment should be, well, entertainment.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Wenger has genuinely changed his ways fundamentally in a number of ways. The problem is, he is still all too familiar and comfortable with this slowly slowly catchy monkey aproach to getting to where ever it is he thinks he's going. That is why he allowed the Suarez negotiations to petter out and why he was happy to sit on his hands for so much of the last 2 windows saying "we will not buy for the sake of it".

The problem is, the fans no longer share his patience......that's if they ever did. I refer you to his quote from last summer about being well placed to challenge within the next 2-3 years regarding our resources which rings ominously in our eardrums. Or least, it does mine.

AFC for a long time were waiting for FFP to kick in, when perhaps we should have been waiting for more billionaire's shi* to hit the fan. Since Chelsea sold what was left of their soul, others have followed suit with Billionaires buying up top clubs and it may well happen again. It might have been easier to really compete before the situation got worse....but here we are. Despite it being the worst it's been, we are in the healthiest shape we've been financially.

Despite the current malaise, if we actually spend what is within our resources wisely enough this summer we can be genuine challengers from start to FINISH next season. If Liverpool can finish 7th and be title challengers the next season in April, then I see no reason why we can't.....except for the small matter of whether the manager is willing to do all of what is necessary....

[Bumble]

It's 9 points from 9 games now. But we have three homes games where we will pick up three wins. But we have to pick up a win away from home.

Wenger is lucky that the home performances have been pretty decent overall so has avoided any fan reaction. Still pretty supportive although that could turn if the next home game against west ham is a draw.

[AFC Leveller]

This.

Everything about Arsene and his rotten system screams of his ideals and how he wants "football" played irrespective of the outcome.

As you stated, Arsene's system relies on too many unknowns to click in order for it to be delivered correctly. I would even go one step further and say most of his buys are fairly similar (highly technical attacking midfielders) because they fit into his "idealistic, tika taka barca lite" system.

Everything he does regarding the football team reeks of somebody so far removed from reality and living in his own bubble, he's unable to build a balanced football team, our team/squad is just a sum of parts...a fantasy. Arsene's teams collapse under pressure for a reason, it's not like we are talking about the same set of players everytime, it's a character trait of his teams.

People say "give him time", "we have money now", "we can't hire a better manager than him"? blah blah blah....

I respect Arsene for his past achievements but he simply has to go now...thanks for leaving the club in great shape financially and for building a solid-ish squad, but let somebody with an open mind and different vision take over.

Im with you mate. The common denominator is the manager.

We've had 9 years of the same bullshit from him, the same capitulations from HIS players and the progress that we made earlier in the season is gone and we've actually regresed. This group have been together for 3-4 seasons yet they have not made any real progress and keep making the same mistakes they made at the beginning. The 06 to 09 teams were a talented bunch with RVC, a younger Rosicky, Cesc, Sagna, Adeisawhore, Flamini, Nasri (even Henry was there for a bit too) etc but they failed too! this man is the problem and the longer he stays the longer we'll wait for real progress and trophies.

His obsession with these tiny midgets who can play neat one twos is the real reason why his teams arent balanced and dont deliver sucess. Just how many of these kinda players has he signed over the last 10 years? Rosicky, Ozil, Cazorla, Hleb, Wilshere, Podolski, Nasri, Ramsay, Arteta etc just to name a few. these players are actually decent but they should be complimented by diferent type of players in order for us to go somewhere.

[selassie]

Yes, some managers are certainly more enterprising and ambitious with their football than Wenger is now, wouldn't argue with that. I hate watching the shit we play. But there isn't a manager anywhere who has ever produced the type of football we used to play. Granted, it's much tougher to play like that now, mainly due to the cynical approach that has come about because it is now so vital to win or get fourth or stay up or whatever the financial goal happens to be. This is what I mean when I say people shouldn't be so quick to applaud the modern game. Yes it is modern and it gets results, but it's boring and one of the key ingredients of any form of entertainment should be, well, entertainment.

That's the problem though NQ, when we talk about Arsene's Footballing achievements it's all done in past tense, it's all about what he did, not what he is currently doing.

Maybe we are at cross purposes but what does the modern game have to do with Arsene's obvious flaws in his approach to managing the "Football team"?

I really respect some of you guys for the patience you have shown with him, how you can want him in charge for another season completely baffles me. I am literally praying he walks away this summer, I've had enough.

[Power n Glory]

Yes, some managers are certainly more enterprising and ambitious with their football than Wenger is now, wouldn't argue with that. I hate watching the shit we play. But there isn't a manager anywhere who has ever produced the type of football we used to play. Granted, it's much tougher to play like that now, mainly due to the cynical approach that has come about because it is now so vital to win or get fourth or stay up or whatever the financial goal happens to be. This is what I mean when I say people shouldn't be so quick to applaud the modern game. Yes it is modern and it gets results, but it's boring and one of the key ingredients of any form of entertainment should be, well, entertainment.

That's pretty warped. Wenger didn't invent this style of football.

Swansea, Southampton, Liverpool and Everton are clear examples of teams that can play an attractive brand of football and don't have the same sort of problems we have breaking down more organised teams. It's no excuse. We're not even being hampered by teams parking the bus. They're just coming at us and getting points.

[LDG]

That's pretty warped. Wenger didn't invent this style of football.

Swansea, Southampton, Liverpool and Everton are clear examples of teams that can play an attractive brand of football and don't have the same sort of problems we have breaking down more organised teams. It's no excuse. We're not even being hampered by teams parking the bus. They're just coming at us and getting points.

We have absolutely no pace whatsoever in our breaking, our build up, recovery or passing. It's all so pedestrian!

This is why we're getting tucked up, because we're just so slow at everything.

The manager is completely to blame here, because you can't keep watching your team taking an extra one, two or three passes to get it out wide, when one ball would suffice. Or playing a team that is as flat as a pancake with no runners or movers in the team.

The balance of the side he's currently relying on is shockingly unbalanced. Back to the no width, no pace, no ANYTHING!

The one striker, who is already on his holidays, is starved of any service, and our playmakers, don't playmake. They just pass it square.

When we get turned, there is no recovery pace (see Lukaku's goal).

We're a tired, tired team, with very obvious tactics, which don't change game to game.

Fucking awful we were yesterday. Fucking shit.

[Marc Overmars]

We just have to hope and pray we've got enough left in the tank to finish 4th and win the cup because on current evidence the lights are on but no one is home.

Wenger's reputation is really on the line now.

[Niall_Quinn]

That's pretty warped. Wenger didn't invent this style of football.

Swansea, Southampton, Liverpool and Everton are clear examples of teams that can play an attractive brand of football and don't have the same sort of problems we have breaking down more organised teams. It's no excuse. We're not even being hampered by teams parking the bus. They're just coming at us and getting points.

What the hell?

I was saying the football we used to play was at a level higher than we've seen since. Is anyone genuinely going to argue this is not the case? Because the game has changed in such negative ways. I'm not saying certain teams aren't capable of playing good football - nowhere did I say that. I'm also not claiming we are playing good football now, we aren't. What I'm saying is the modern game is negative, less entertaining, probably because so much is at stake financially. Although I think Maureen actually enjoys the shite he serves up.

And mods - if you are going to remove my posts then please remove the post by the twat who prompted my response. Hopefully you're not asking me to reply politely to twattish messages, because that will never happen. If boys who think they are big want to play then let everyone else play.

[Power n Glory]

We have absolutely no pace whatsoever in our breaking, our build up, recovery or passing. It's all so pedestrian!

This is why we're getting tucked up, because we're just so slow at everything.

The manager is completely to blame here, because you can't keep watching your team taking an extra one, two or three passes to get it out wide, when one ball would suffice. Or playing a team that is as flat as a pancake with no runners or movers in the team.

The balance of the side he's currently relying on is shockingly unbalanced. Back to the no width, no pace, no ANYTHING!

The one striker, who is already on his holidays, is starved of any service, and our playmakers, don't playmake. They just pass it square.

When we get turned, there is no recovery pace (see Lukaku's goal).

We're a tired, tired team, with very obvious tactics, which don't change game to game.

Fucking awful we were yesterday. Fucking shit.

I read Arseblog, Le Grove and Gunnersblog this morning and they all concluded the same thing. It’s really poor and Wenger must see what’s going wrong but he’s being pig headed. I don’t think it’s down to a lack of desire from the players. They have everything to play for. Confidence must be rock bottom but they’re getting nothing back from the manager. It’s the same approach each game and those words in Fergie’s book about Wenger’s arrogance really ring true on this occasion. It’s like he’s trying to prove something.

[Dein-machine]

When we play with Flamini & Arteta - it basically meant yesterday our goals from open play had to come from Rosicky, Podolski, Cazorla & Giroud - 2 of these are past their best, 1 needs better players around him on his wavelength & the other one is shit.
We went again to be negative, you cannot play Flams & Arts & expect to be anything else. When you play negatively & get caught out by going a goal or 2 down you then make the changes to try & score - we don't. Its like we're playing to keep the score down. Brings on Ox right at the end & we hit the bar because he drives at defenders. Whilst Wenger can claim a tactical reason not the start him, he cannot defend not bringing him on as soon as the second goal went in, don't even wait for half time. Wenger simply doesn't have this decision making in him because it proves he started with the wrong selection - he hates being proved wrong.

[Letters]

With 9 games to go we were 4 points off the top and had a game in hand.
We surely can't be that rubbish and while we've not always been pretty to watch this season we have been effective.

I think the point about being tired might be a big factor, we're not got a big squad, we're too reliant on a few key players and we're not able to rotate as much as we need to if we're going to challenge properly over the whole season.

[Dein-machine]

What the hell?

I was saying the football we used to play was at a level higher than we've seen since. Is anyone genuinely going to argue this is not the case? Because the game has changed in such negative ways. I'm not saying certain teams aren't capable of playing good football - nowhere did I say that. I'm also not claiming we are playing good football now, we aren't. What I'm saying is the modern game is negative, less entertaining, probably because so much is at stake financially. Although I think Maureen actually enjoys the shite he serves up.

And mods - if you are going to remove my posts then please remove the post by the twat who prompted my response. Hopefully you're not asking me to reply politely to twattish messages, because that will never happen. If boys who think they are big want to play then let everyone else play.

Oh dear - think NQ's cracking - does anyone think after yesterdays garbage he might have put his rose tinted glasses down on the table & thought "shit - the others may have a point here"

[fakeyank]

We have absolutely no pace whatsoever in our breaking, our build up, recovery or passing. It's all so pedestrian!

This is why we're getting tucked up, because we're just so slow at everything.

The manager is completely to blame here, because you can't keep watching your team taking an extra one, two or three passes to get it out wide, when one ball would suffice. Or playing a team that is as flat as a pancake with no runners or movers in the team.

The balance of the side he's currently relying on is shockingly unbalanced. Back to the no width, no pace, no ANYTHING!

The one striker, who is already on his holidays, is starved of any service, and our playmakers, don't playmake. They just pass it square.

When we get turned, there is no recovery pace (see Lukaku's goal).

We're a tired, tired team, with very obvious tactics, which don't change game to game.

Fucking awful we were yesterday. Fucking shit.

:gp:

Amen brother!

[Niall_Quinn]

I read Arseblog, Le Grove and Gunnersblog this morning and they all concluded the same thing. It’s really poor and Wenger must see what’s going wrong but he’s being pig headed. I don’t think it’s down to a lack of desire from the players. They have everything to play for. Confidence must be rock bottom but they’re getting nothing back from the manager. It’s the same approach each game and those words in Fergie’s book about Wenger’s arrogance really ring true on this occasion. It’s like he’s trying to prove something.

There comes a time for everyone, even Wenger, when pigheaded goes out the window because you have to rescue a serious situation. It's inconceivable a professional would sit there and take hammering after hammering and think any minute now it will all change. It's not a reasonable or realistic theory to be putting forward. I really don't see why the players get such an easy ride, barring the usual targets who are no worse than the rest. Arteta being a prime example. Questions need to be asked about the desire of some of these guys. Like Cazorla and Podolski who routinely throw their full backs under the bus. Or Giroud when the ball doesn't arrive fast enough so he gives up on trying to find the run or the space and just stands there like a lemon. Or Monreal when time and again he leaves the space and gets badly exposed and doesn't have the pace to compensate. Does he not see things happening on the pitch at all? And Rosicky when he has space, looks up, find his man, and passes to the opposition. Or Sagna when he has time to put the cross in and balloons it. There's a fair degree of panic on display from this lot when teams come to close us down. They lack composure and yet supposedly this is the sort of stuff we practise on the training ground over and over. How many times has our passing gone to hell this season? Passing used to be the one thing we could manage with some degree of proficiency. If the argument is Wenger refuses to change you have to then assume he's using the same methods to train the players. And if he's using the same methods and up until recently we could pass a ball, then what's up with this lot? You can say yes, Wenger signed them, so he takes responsibility for that. But what about the responsibility a player should take for not being able to pass the ball 5 yards? We don't play the same tactics every game either - that's just one of those cosy little criticisms that doesn't hold up if you watch the games. Sometimes we press, sometimes we don't. Sometimes we play high, sometimes we don't. Now if you're saying we seem to vary it in the wrong way for the given opponent, it does seem to be that way at least some of the time. Other times we get it spot on though.

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh dear - think NQ's cracking - does anyone think after yesterdays garbage he might have put his rose tinted glasses down on the table & thought "shit - the others may have a point here"

You're being one dimensional. I don't judge anything over one game. My argument has never been we've been playing good football this season. We haven't. But there's an idea going around the "modern" game has passed Wenger by. Maybe it has. All I'm saying is it's a shame because the modern game is shite. Now as to you trying to put words in my mouth, let me be clear - no, I didn't think the game yesterday was fabulous. Maybe a few on here desperate to slag the club at all costs took a perverse pleasure in the nature of the result, if not the result itself, but not me.

[Power n Glory]

What the hell?

I was saying the football we used to play was at a level higher than we've seen since. Is anyone genuinely going to argue this is not the case? Because the game has changed in such negative ways. I'm not saying certain teams aren't capable of playing good football - nowhere did I say that. I'm also not claiming we are playing good football now, we aren't. What I'm saying is the modern game is negative, less entertaining, probably because so much is at stake financially. Although I think Maureen actually enjoys the shite he serves up.

And mods - if you are going to remove my posts then please remove the post by the twat who prompted my response. Hopefully you're not asking me to reply politely to twattish messages, because that will never happen. If boys who think they are big want to play then let everyone else play.

You said there wasn’t a manager anywhere that had produced the football we had in the past. That’s a little warped. We played at a higher level in the Premier League against the standard 4-4-2, ‘hoof and hope’ football with hopeless managers like Allardyce in charge but we could never produce the same results in the Champions League during those years. You can’t blame negative tactics because Utd were an attacking team and the same goes for Man City’s team. The modern game isn’t negative especially when players like Ronaldo and Messi are racking up crazy goal numbers. If you watched followed a different team other than Arsenal, you’d probably feel different.

[Dein-machine]

You're being one dimensional. I don't judge anything over one game. My argument has never been we've been playing good football this season. We haven't. But there's an idea going around the "modern" game has passed Wenger by. Maybe it has. All I'm saying is it's a shame because the modern game is shite. Now as to you trying to put words in my mouth, let me be clear - no, I didn't think the game yesterday was fabulous. Maybe a few on here desperate to slag the club at all costs took a perverse pleasure in the nature of the result, if not the result itself, but not me.

I doubt the fans of Liverpool, Man city, Southampton & Everton believe the modern game is shit - its you opinion, fair enough but it was only last year when we were drooling at the performances of Dormund & Bayern against the Spanish big boys, only 2 weeks ago when I watched a fantastic El Classico where the game was played with pace & movement - we have teams like Liverpool & City breaking scoring records, Ronaldo & Messy breaking all-time scoring records in the Spanish league & Champions league.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes that's what I said. Not sure where warped comes into it. We didn't play 4-4-2, we played much more freely than that. Sometimes we were a 4-4-2. Of course the wonderfully watchable 4-4-2 was one of the first victims of the modern clamp down. But enough of going with your drift away from the main argument. The modern game has passed Wenger by - discuss. 17 years in the top 4 so obviously no, this claim is entirely wrong, although I'm sure you are prepared to argue it to death anyway in spite of the evidence. One such argument could be that every manager bar those who have finished above us in prior seasons has been passed by the modern game. Okay, a stretch but maybe that's it. End of that argument then. You win.

Pure Wenger bashing as always. Incompetent fool, sacrificing the team to prove he is right, stealing from the club, etc, etc, etc. We can never seem to roll things back to a middle ground where it's possible for Wenger to be, say, 93% responsible, or 74% responsible. He always has to be 100% responsible, 100% incompetent, 100% a thief.

And then when you point out the extreme bias everyone dives in and says you are 100% happy with the way everything is going. It's as knee-jerking as the post match reactions themselves. Yay - we can win this. Fuck - Wenger out. Yay - great result, well played lads! Shit - Wenger was 100% responsible for that! Wenger out! Players did us proud! Wenger let us down!

Finances passed him by. Fact is, we don't actually know why Ox was on the bench yesterday. But we do know (taking into account Ramsey's fitness levels) he was about the only player we could bring on to influence anything. Squad's threadbare. Characters are missing. leaders are missing. Most of them jumped ship. Let's talk about realistic stuff. It's just silly to claim the manager who sits in 4th spot hasn't got a clue or has been passed by, so dump that stupidity. But it's legit to talk about the players he has bought with the funds we've had available because some of them don't seem to have a spine and that's partly the manager's fault and surely partly the player's fault? But I see free passes being handed out again.

[Power n Glory]

There comes a time for everyone, even Wenger, when pigheaded goes out the window because you have to rescue a serious situation. It's inconceivable a professional would sit there and take hammering after hammering and think any minute now it will all change. It's not a reasonable or realistic theory to be putting forward. I really don't see why the players get such an easy ride, barring the usual targets who are no worse than the rest. Arteta being a prime example. Questions need to be asked about the desire of some of these guys. Like Cazorla and Podolski who routinely throw their full backs under the bus. Or Giroud when the ball doesn't arrive fast enough so he gives up on trying to find the run or the space and just stands there like a lemon. Or Monreal when time and again he leaves the space and gets badly exposed and doesn't have the pace to compensate. Does he not see things happening on the pitch at all? And Rosicky when he has space, looks up, find his man, and passes to the opposition. Or Sagna when he has time to put the cross in and balloons it. There's a fair degree of panic on display from this lot when teams come to close us down. They lack composure and yet supposedly this is the sort of stuff we practise on the training ground over and over. How many times has our passing gone to hell this season? Passing used to be the one thing we could manage with some degree of proficiency. If the argument is Wenger refuses to change you have to then assume he's using the same methods to train the players. And if he's using the same methods and up until recently we could pass a ball, then what's up with this lot? You can say yes, Wenger signed them, so he takes responsibility for that. But what about the responsibility a player should take for not being able to pass the ball 5 yards? We don't play the same tactics every game either - that's just one of those cosy little criticisms that doesn't hold up if you watch the games. Sometimes we press, sometimes we don't. Sometimes we play high, sometimes we don't. Now if you're saying we seem to vary it in the wrong way for the given opponent, it does seem to be that way at least some of the time. Other times we get it spot on though.

How many times can you blame the players? We’ve seen the same sort of collapse under every single captain since leaving Highbury. All different players and they all seem to have this confidence problem where they forget how to play for some reason. Are you saying we’re that unlucky? You soon have to start looking at the manager and questioning his methods when it keeps happen under multiple teams. If you look back at the 2008 collapse, only Flamini, Rosicky and Walcott were present in that team from this current crop. We’ve had a complete makeover in personnel. It does seem inconceivable that a professional would sit there and take hammering after hammering but it happens and it happens quite often with Wenger. Why not make a few changes if it’s the players fault?

Tell me what you saw tactically different to what we saw against Chelsea? We haven’t pressed teams in months and we’ve been playing a dangerous highline for a while now. The team selection has practically been the same and teams have won by hitting us on the break after losing possession high up the pitch.

[Power n Glory]

Yes that's what I said. Not sure where warped comes into it. We didn't play 4-4-2, we played much more freely than that. Sometimes we were a 4-4-2. Of course the wonderfully watchable 4-4-2 was one of the first victims of the modern clamp down. But enough of going with your drift away from the main argument. The modern game has passed Wenger by - discuss. 17 years in the top 4 so obviously no, this claim is entirely wrong, although I'm sure you are prepared to argue it to death anyway in spite of the evidence. One such argument could be that every manager bar those who have finished above us in prior seasons has been passed by the modern game. Okay, a stretch but maybe that's it. End of that argument then. You win.

Pure Wenger bashing as always. Incompetent fool, sacrificing the team to prove he is right, stealing from the club, etc, etc, etc. We can never seem to roll things back to a middle ground where it's possible for Wenger to be, say, 93% responsible, or 74% responsible. He always has to be 100% responsible, 100% incompetent, 100% a thief.

And then when you point out the extreme bias everyone dives in and says you are 100% happy with the way everything is going. It's as knee-jerking as the post match reactions themselves. Yay - we can win this. Fuck - Wenger out. Yay - great result, well played lads! Shit - Wenger was 100% responsible for that! Wenger out! Players did us proud! Wenger let us down!

Finances passed him by. Fact is, we don't actually know why Ox was on the bench yesterday. But we do know (taking into account Ramsey's fitness levels) he was about the only player we could bring on to influence anything. Squad's threadbare. Characters are missing. leaders are missing. Most of them jumped ship. Let's talk about realistic stuff. It's just silly to claim the manager who sits in 4th spot hasn't got a clue or has been passed by, so dump that stupidity. But it's legit to talk about the players he has bought with the funds we've had available because some of them don't seem to have a spine and that's partly the manager's fault and surely partly the player's fault? But I see free passes being handed out again.

Tedious. Fuck off, NQ.

[Niall_Quinn]

Tedious. Fuck off, NQ.

I see what you did there. You walked right into the absolutism trap and proved my point in your previous response, realised it so followed up with "Fuck off!" So now instead of the high ground you have a high horse. And off you ride. Bye then.

[Niall_Quinn]

How many times can you blame the players? We’ve seen the same sort of collapse under every single captain since leaving Highbury. All different players and they all seem to have this confidence problem where they forget how to play for some reason. Are you saying we’re that unlucky? You soon have to start looking at the manager and questioning his methods when it keeps happen under multiple teams. If you look back at the 2008 collapse, only Flamini, Rosicky and Walcott were present in that team from this current crop. We’ve had a complete makeover in personnel. It does seem inconceivable that a professional would sit there and take hammering after hammering but it happens and it happens quite often with Wenger. Why not make a few changes if it’s the players fault?

Tell me what you saw tactically different to what we saw against Chelsea? We haven’t pressed teams in months and we’ve been playing a dangerous highline for a while now. The team selection has practically been the same and teams have won by hitting us on the break after losing possession high up the pitch.

Spuds match - not pretty but different for sure. Admittedly these are just facts.

[Power n Glory]

I see what you did there. You walked right into the absolutism trap and proved my point in your previous response, realised it so followed up with "Fuck off!" So now instead of the high ground you have a high horse. And off you ride. Bye then.

You talk absolute bollocks, mate! What the heck has happened to you. There is no debate to had because you are warped! Any response made is only served up with more long winded drivel from a moron who thinks football hasn't progressed over the last 20 years. That's idiotic! It's a huge waste of my time.

[Dein-machine]

When I look at recent performances the only players I would like to see starting in the team next year would be Sir Ches, Kos, Merts, Ozil, Rambo, Ox & Walcott - that's very worrying, especially when one of them is an ageing, slow defender. That would suggest we need 4 quality players to field a team of capable footballers in every position. Players like Wiltshire, Cazorla, Gibbs & Gnabbers should get a chance from the bench. Monreal, Sagna, Arteta, Flamini, Rosicky, Vermalean, Giroud, Sonogo, Bentdner & Podolski simply can be sold or given away - they are not the future of AFC.
With addition strength needed on the bench we are looking at 7/8 players - its a big transition needed NOW, not the year after - NOW. Bearing in mind the facts & reality of Wengers transfer policies this simply isn't going to happen. 2014-15 De Ja Vu.

[Niall_Quinn]

You talk absolute bollocks, mate! What the heck has happened to you. There is no debate to had because you are warped! Any response made is only served up with more long winded drivel from a moron who thinks football hasn't progressed over the last 20 years. That's idiotic! It's a huge waste of my time.

Isn't it you who positions himself as some sort of tactical and strategic guru? I just believe my eyes and leave it to others to tell me I shouldn't believe what I'm seeing.

Absolutely nothing has happened to me. I just won't pile in with the cool and loud crowd and their absolute views. It upsets some people, they seem to take it personally I won't slag the manager relentlessly or endorse some of the crazy shit being created out of thin air about him. I was taking the piss all the way through the match thread yesterday. Ripping Wenger for his reliance on too rigid a game plan, as one instance. But my problem is I won't go the whole hog and say everything he does is shite. I'll criticise him for his faults but because I won't go further people are aghast and shout, "Fuck, what's happened to you?" Sorry, but I'm not buying the idea the modern game has passed him by when he's sitting in 4th spot at the tail end of the season. The evidence doesn't fit the claim. The real evidence points to him being a consistently top manager with nobody left in British management that comes close to his record now Ferguson has gone. It also points to certain flaws in his ability to hit the very top with what he has at his disposal, and therein lies the real argument. Has he done well or poorly given the resources he's had and the task the board has set? That's a discussion worth having. Of course he has faults and I don't see anyone denying that. But there's some real silly crap going around too. Black and white, 0% or 100%, nothing in between. Won't play that and not in the least sorry if it offends.

[fakeyank]

When I look at recent performances the only players I would like to see starting in the team next year would be Sir Ches, Kos, Merts, Ozil, Rambo, Ox & Walcott - that's very worrying, especially when one of them is an ageing, slow defender. That would suggest we need 4 quality players to field a team of capable footballers in every position. Players like Wiltshire, Cazorla, Gibbs & Gnabbers should get a chance from the bench. Monreal, Sagna, Arteta, Flamini, Rosicky, Vermalean, Giroud, Sonogo, Bentdner & Podolski simply can be sold or given away - they are not the future of AFC.
With addition strength needed on the bench we are looking at 7/8 players - its a big transition needed NOW, not the year after - NOW. Bearing in mind the facts & reality of Wengers transfer policies this simply isn't going to happen. 2014-15 De Ja Vu.

Dont agree with that list. Flamini, Sagna, Rosicky, Pods and to an extent even Giroud can be there in the team. What we need is direction in the way we play. Why isnt more than one player ever attacking the box? Not even Ronaldo, Messi or Suarez would be able to score from the stupid tactics produced by our manager. There is no gameplan, no plan B, nothing.. clueless management.

[Globalgunner]

Dont agree with that list. Flamini, Sagna, Rosicky, Pods and to an extent even Giroud can be there in the team. What we need is direction in the way we play. Why isnt more than one player ever attacking the box? Not even Ronaldo, Messi or Suarez would be able to score from the stupid tactics produced by our manager. There is no gameplan, no plan B, nothing.. clueless management.
The players arent the problem. I could name at least 5 managers in the EPL. Any of these managers would add at least 5 maybe 10 points to this team with the same squad that we have now.

Wenger lost it years ago and he hasn't a clue where to find whats missing

[saintnickle]

Yes that's what I said. Not sure where warped comes into it. We didn't play 4-4-2, we played much more freely than that. Sometimes we were a 4-4-2. Of course the wonderfully watchable 4-4-2 was one of the first victims of the modern clamp down. But enough of going with your drift away from the main argument. The modern game has passed Wenger by - discuss. 17 years in the top 4 so obviously no, this claim is entirely wrong, although I'm sure you are prepared to argue it to death anyway in spite of the evidence. One such argument could be that every manager bar those who have finished above us in prior seasons has been passed by the modern game. Okay, a stretch but maybe that's it. End of that argument then. You win.

Pure Wenger bashing as always. Incompetent fool, sacrificing the team to prove he is right, stealing from the club, etc, etc, etc. We can never seem to roll things back to a middle ground where it's possible for Wenger to be, say, 93% responsible, or 74% responsible. He always has to be 100% responsible, 100% incompetent, 100% a thief.

And then when you point out the extreme bias everyone dives in and says you are 100% happy with the way everything is going. It's as knee-jerking as the post match reactions themselves. Yay - we can win this. Fuck - Wenger out. Yay - great result, well played lads! Shit - Wenger was 100% responsible for that! Wenger out! Players did us proud! Wenger let us down!

Finances passed him by. Fact is, we don't actually know why Ox was on the bench yesterday. But we do know (taking into account Ramsey's fitness levels) he was about the only player we could bring on to influence anything. Squad's threadbare. Characters are missing. leaders are missing. Most of them jumped ship. Let's talk about realistic stuff. It's just silly to claim the manager who sits in 4th spot hasn't got a clue or has been passed by, so dump that stupidity. But it's legit to talk about the players he has bought with the funds we've had available because some of them don't seem to have a spine and that's partly the manager's fault and surely partly the player's fault? But I see free passes being handed out again.

Are you a politician??? Talk a lot and most of it is sh1te.

[Niall_Quinn]

Are you a politician??? Talk a lot and most of it is sh1te.

And what if I was a politician - how much?

[Globalgunner]

Nobody can cobble a load of mumbo jumbo together like NQ. All he does is keep repeating the lie that Wenger has had no money over and over again in the hope that it sticks. Wenger can't be trusted with money. He's the man who sells Ferraris and Lambos and uses the money to buy 2 dozen Toyota Corollas.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nobody can cobble a load of mumbo jumbo together like NQ. All he does is keep repeating the lie that Wenger has had no money over and over again in the hope that it sticks. Wenger can't be trusted with money. He's the man who sells Ferraris and Lambos and uses the money to buy 2 dozen Toyota Corollas.


"Wenger can't be trusted with money."

I think that's the prize in the bag - unless anyone else can throw in something last minute that's even more stupid.

[Özim]

The way I see it the buck stops with the manager after 9 years of the same pattern emerging and him being the only constant I don't really see how he can be defended.

He's tried to do it his own way and he's failed to deliver on the promises he made, his record in the transfer market is disappointing, particularly in terms of signing the players in the positions needed, right now we're basically fully stocked in terms of creative CM's but in other areas we're having to play CM's or going short.

His tactics, team selections, subs, motivational ability and ability to identify what's needed to improve the team have been questionable for many years now.

As far as I'm concerned from a fan point of view he's collected his big salary but not delivered on it, frankly I don't care what the board thinks is acceptable because I don't give a sh*t about them and they know nothing about football or what fans want.

From an ambition point of view if Wenger is indeed a top manager then getting 4th and being happy with the fact he's achieved his goals is not the right attitude for a manager who is supposed to be so good, the best manager's want to win and will do anything it takes to do it that's what sets them apart.

As he's said he wouldn't feel he was doing his job if he didn't make the club a profit, the more success you have the more revenue you'll bring in and thus your chances of profits are increased and everyone is happy, if he wants to focus on profits he should go and work for a bank not a football club as far as I'm concerned, it's up to the board to worry about the profits not the manager.

He was done a few years ago IMO, and now he's definitely done, it's time to shake his hand thank him for all the memories and move on.

[fakeyank]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/18/article-0-16901AF1000005DC-698_634x457.jpg

:wave:

[Letters]

From an ambition point of view if Wenger is indeed a top manager then getting 4th and being happy with the fact he's achieved his goals is not the right attitude for a manager who is supposed to be so good.
I don't think that is his attitude.

Agree with much of the rest though.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

The players arent the problem. I could name at least 5 managers in the EPL. Any of these managers would add at least 5 maybe 10 points to this team with the same squad that we have now.

Wenger lost it years ago and he hasn't a clue where to find whats missing

That is an interesting theory but I'm not sure it is totally true, though I think there are a number of managers who could have gotten better results against the top teams. The top teams are in a niche though and still the minority. More pertinently is the fact that any top manager in the league would not have gone into the season with this squad. They'd have spent more of the money at their disposal. Chelsea's strikeforce is by some distance superior to ours (and they ain't all that) and yet Mournho has been slagging off his forwards on a weekly basis since he rejoined Chelsea. He'd have thrown himself under a bus if he had Giroud, some bloke called Sanogo and Bendtner going into a season.

Even Moyes who has long been known as a frugal manger spent the cash the moment he joined a club with the resources in Fellaini and Mata.

Incidentally my Dad owns a toyota corolla which of course he swears by. If you thought Wenger was a penny pincher you need to meet my pop....:d

[fari]

Dont agree with that list. Flamini, Sagna, Rosicky, Pods and to an extent even Giroud can be there in the team. What we need is direction in the way we play. Why isnt more than one player ever attacking the box? Not even Ronaldo, Messi or Suarez would be able to score from the stupid tactics produced by our manager. There is no gameplan, no plan B, nothing.. clueless management.

for real...how many times is giroud the only one in the box...none of the mids don't even try to crash the far post in case he misses the cross (which usually happens)...watching the games on tv i have to listen to the commentators ad nauseam mention that we need more players in the box...Wenger is a smart man, surely he has realised that this is an issue that needs to be adressed?!?!

[Power n Glory]

Nobody can cobble a load of mumbo jumbo together like NQ. All he does is keep repeating the lie that Wenger has had no money over and over again in the hope that it sticks. Wenger can't be trusted with money. He's the man who sells Ferraris and Lambos and uses the money to buy 2 dozen Toyota Corollas.

Yep, we wasted that RVP money. £25m and we put the money on Giroud and Podolski. I thought he was planning on playing two up front to make up for RVP's goals. Have Pod playing slightly behind Giroud, but we've never attempted that and it's been a mess. I'd be surprised if either of them feature much in the first team next year. Toyota...heck, at least those are reliable. We've bought a 2nd hand Peugeot and Audi after selling a Ferrari.

[AFC Leveller]

This is what a lot of fans are complaining about. This video highlights how tactically inept the manager is. If a pundit can see it, then why cant a man with 30+ years of management see it?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuqWBoPaRHM

[Globalgunner]

Don`t forget Wenger has made more than 50000 subs in his life (all in the 70th min). Neville has never even made 1. So there......

[Letters]

Don`t forget Wenger has made more than 50000 subs in his life (all in the 70th min). Neville has never even made 1. So there......
Don't forget that we've finished in the top 4 every single year either :shrug:
What has Neville done in management?

For all Wenger's flaws, he can't be as clueless or inept as some people are making out.

[Globalgunner]

Don't forget that we've finished in the top 4 every single year either :shrug:
What has Neville done in management?

For all Wenger's flaws, he can't be as clueless or inept as some people are making out.

You say that all the time...maybe you're a little worried that it may be true.
Top 4....This year is going to be another plug yr butthole ride......Again. Lets hope the trophy has our name on it this year too.

[bignev]

You say that all the time...maybe you're a little worried that it may be true.
Top 4....This year is going to be another plug yr butthole ride......Again. Lets hope the trophy has our name on it this year too.

Maybe he says it all the time because.........wait for it............ it's true!

[Letters]

This year is going to be another plug yr butthole ride......
I literally have no idea what that's supposed to mean.
Thanks for joining in though.

[Globalgunner]

Creative licence. SAF first coined the phrase. Either way....we cant even make top 4 now without help from City and United......if hes good at making top 4...its not showing right now

[Letters]

Creative licence. SAF first coined the phrase. Either way....we cant even make top 4 now without help from City and United......if hes good at making top 4...its not showing right now
One could argue it's all he's good at these days but it's not an achievement which should be underestimated, doing it consistently over that period of time with the money other clubs have spent to try and leapfrog us. It's the doing it consistently which is impressive, the last time Liverpool challenged for the title they got 86 points, the following season they finished about 7th. It's ridiculous to say he's 'clueless' or 'inept'.

It shouldn't be the limit of our ambitions though and if we don't win the Cup then he should definitely go, perennial top 4 finishes are impressive but ultimately pointless if that's all we do.

[Özim]

Don't forget that we've finished in the top 4 every single year either :shrug:
What has Neville done in management?

I'm not really sure that matters, he just pointed out some poor tactical play by us, whether he managed 10 clubs and won 100 trophies or hasn't managed is kinda irrelevant.

Tactics and organisation are important in football and if your tactics are poor and you play as individuals you'll struggle.

Wenger has been found tactically wanting over the years and this was just an example of poor tactics, I don't think we drill the players tactically and the players we buy don't seem to be good enough to be tactically aware and adapt off their own back.

[Letters]

Wenger has never been a master tactician, it's true. That isn't new news.
He isn't 'inept' or 'clueless' though.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The words entrenched and stubborn seem more appropriate, and with every big defeat with the exception of the Chelsea game he has been more keen to blame the players than himself, as if if they'd followed his game plan this wouldn't have happened. Well the players look like scared rabbits because of a lack of a game plan...should they individually be performing better yes of course but its certainly not the case that its the players letting the manager down.
I agree even without trophies his ability to get us into the top four has been exceptional especially in the last couple of seasons, but I doubt his ability to push on from there and it looks on the pitch against the top sides that the players doubt that as well. He constantly looks like a figure running into a brick wall and can't understand what is going on, not through stupidity he's without doubt one of the most intelligent men in football but because he's a prisoner of his own purist principles that seem more like a shackle than at any time during his 17 years here



One could argue it's all he's good at these days but it's not an achievement which should be underestimated, doing it consistently over that period of time with the money other clubs have spent to try and leapfrog us. It's the doing it consistently which is impressive, the last time Liverpool challenged for the title they got 86 points, the following season they finished about 7th. It's ridiculous to say he's 'clueless' or 'inept'.

It shouldn't be the limit of our ambitions though and if we don't win the Cup then he should definitely go, perennial top 4 finishes are impressive but ultimately pointless if that's all we do.

[Letters]

The words entrenched and stubborn seem more appropriate, and with every big defeat with the exception of the Chelsea game he has been more keen to blame the players than himself, as if if they'd followed his game plan this wouldn't have happened. Well the players look like scared rabbits because of a lack of a game plan...should they individually be performing better yes of course but its certainly not the case that its the players letting the manager down.
I agree even without trophies his ability to get us into the top four has been exceptional especially in the last couple of seasons, but I doubt his ability to push on from there and it looks on the pitch against the top sides that the players doubt that as well. He constantly looks like a figure running into a brick wall and can't understand what is going on, not through stupidity he's without doubt one of the most intelligent men in football but because he's a prisoner of his own purist principles that seem more like a shackle than at any time during his 17 years here

:gp:

[Power n Glory]

The words entrenched and stubborn seem more appropriate, and with every big defeat with the exception of the Chelsea game he has been more keen to blame the players than himself, as if if they'd followed his game plan this wouldn't have happened. Well the players look like scared rabbits because of a lack of a game plan...should they individually be performing better yes of course but its certainly not the case that its the players letting the manager down.
I agree even without trophies his ability to get us into the top four has been exceptional especially in the last couple of seasons, but I doubt his ability to push on from there and it looks on the pitch against the top sides that the players doubt that as well. He constantly looks like a figure running into a brick wall and can't understand what is going on, not through stupidity he's without doubt one of the most intelligent men in football but because he's a prisoner of his own purist principles that seem more like a shackle than at any time during his 17 years here

:gp:

It looks that way. Stubbornness confused with conviction and faith in a system that clearly isn’t working. We know we’re vulnerable to a counter attack if we lose the ball high up the pitch but we continue to play the same way. There is no organisation. Everton’s first goal was similar to Swansea’s in the way that we stood off the man attacking our wing and allowed him to play in a great ball. No pressure at all and it was early in the match. Why weren’t they prepared for that and warned against giving our opponents too much space? It’s like watching boxer constantly getting flawed by right uppercuts and instead of his trainer showing him how to avoid the punch, he’s telling him to go in the ring again but show more passion and spirit. That’s not going to stop the pummelling and only leads to a serious loss of confidence. That’s what we’re seeing on the pitch. The players look confused and don’t have a clue what they should be doing out there.

[fakeyank]

This is what a lot of fans are complaining about. This video highlights how tactically inept the manager is. If a pundit can see it, then why cant a man with 30+ years of management see it?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuqWBoPaRHM

This is what Wenger gets 7 million quid for? I could do the same job for a bag of chips

[Letters]

This is what Wenger gets 7 million quid for? I could do the same job for a bag of chips

No. No you couldn't.

[fakeyank]

Guess we will have to petition Arsenal to get me the job then..

[Globalgunner]

My personal feeling is that the players know the system doesnt work. Not all the time and not against well marshalled teams. They dont want to speak because they know what Wenger is like when he feels slighted. A strong team with a strong bond would send a delegation to him, unified in their convictions, but we have all worked in environments where the leader is unyielding and vindictive. My guess is that the players are just going through the motions. The senior players having seen other setups are just taking the cheque while hoping for the best.
The person at fault is the man who has seen whats worked. has used it to great success, but is now headlong tilting at Windmills, even though all he gets is battered and bruised. He just gets up mounts his horse and does it all over again. Once Don Quixote says," just once this windmill will fall and the world will see that I was right all along".

We are all doomed I tells ya

[Letters]

Guess we will have to petition Arsenal to get me the job then..

That would mean you being in the stadium for home games and you know what happens then...

[fakeyank]

That would mean you being in the stadium for home games and you know what happens then...

:lol:

I'll work 'remotely'

[IBK]

My personal feeling is that the players know the system doesnt work. Not all the time and not against well marshalled teams. They dont want to speak because they know what Wenger is like when he feels slighted. A strong team with a strong bond would send a delegation to him, unified in their convictions, but we have all worked in environments where the leader is unyielding and vindictive. My guess is that the players are just going through the motions. The senior players having seen other setups are just taking the cheque while hoping for the best.
The person at fault is the man who has seen whats worked. has used it to great success, but is now headlong tilting at Windmills, even though all he gets is battered and bruised. He just gets up mounts his horse and does it all over again. Once Don Quixote says," just once this windmill will fall and the world will see that I was right all along".

We are all doomed I tells ya

Well put. The real irony is that Wenger has systematically bred out of his teams the players with the vision; the desire, or the personality to question his methods. Our players look ATM like they have lost faith in what they are trying to do.