4th or Cup

[Letters]

Which would you prefer if you could only pick one?
Cup for me. It's been too long

[Heisenberg]

Cup. It's possible that, rationally speaking, getting 4th is a better platform for next year with revenues and prestige to help improve the squad. However, I just want something to celebrate.

Hopefully we get both though :scarf:

[selassie]

If it's a choice then the Cup. I don't think our transfer plans will change irrespective of 4th or 5th place finish.

[Marc Overmars]

I honestly can't choose.

Obviously it goes without saying losing the final would be a disaster, but I also think a cup win would be soured if we finished 5th, given that is the minimum objective and something Wenger has been all too keen to speak about. Plus we were challenging for the title 5 games ago, so to drop out of the top 4 completely would be pathetic.

[Munchies]

The cup, couldn't care less about finishing 4th, we did for all the previous seasons and the extra funds weren't spent by Wenger anyway

[Niall_Quinn]

Need an option for both, why should it be a choice? Anything less than both is completely unacceptable given the opposition we are up against. Everton and Hull? We should be shitting out and wiping up teams like that.

If we capitulate like we did against Everton then we'll get neither. So the only acceptable option is to find a set of balls and win the cup and qualify for the CL.

[GP]

I think one without the other will be disastrous.

[Globalgunner]

Katy Perry or Kiera Knightely, I know which one I would choose....The one with the big fat revenue streams

[fakeyank]

Dont really care about 4th or Champions league, if all we are going to do is qualify for the second round and get knocked out the moment we play a team with 11 football players. We have got 4th every season for almost a decade (peppered with 3rd) and it has provided me ZERO happiness.

I think winning a trophy will be a great springboard for us to go onto better things. FA Cup any day for me. In fact, I'd prefer the Carling cup over 4th place trophy.

[pmakgreb]

of course we would like both but the question is if we were only to have one. Id go for the cup. I think the ramifications of losing another cup final will be worse for morale and mentaility than a year out of the CL. The only thing we miss out on in the CL in the revenue and i'm sure the club have a contingency if this happens. My only concern for non CL qualification is not attracting the big name players we need to challenge but as someone pointed out, we probably wouldnt spend the money anyway.

We need that monkey off the back....

[Munchies]

Dont really care about 4th or Champions league, if all we are going to do is qualify for the second round and get knocked out the moment we play a team with 11 football players. We have got 4th every season for almost a decade (peppered with 3rd) and it has provided me ZERO happiness.

I think winning a trophy will be a great springboard for us to go onto better things. FA Cup any day for me. In fact, I'd prefer the Carling cup over 4th place trophy.

:gp:

Exactly, what's the point of getting into CL if we won't ever do anything ? I don't want Europa football, but is it really that bad? Still a trophy, and for next season, the winner gets a CL spot so there won't be a need to finish 4th again.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think realistically 4th place is more important than the fa cup in that if Wenger goes at the end of the season i think we are going to be less of an attractive prospect to a decent manager if we finish outside of the champions league. But from my own perspective i will be heartbroken if we don't win the cup, i couldn't tell you how i felt i felt between the time they scored and Mert's equaliser....not that disimilar from the inner anguish those who throw themselves in front of trains feel, and i can't imagine i'd feel anything more than disappointed if we didn't finish 4th. And actually i could see a silver lining, that for me finishing 4th is all about the money and prestige as i've never realistically felt we had a chance to win the thing (not since we were last in the final anyway), where as i think we could win the Europa League and yes it's not a great trophy but if it's good enough for the likes of Porto,Sevilla and Atletico Madrid it's good enough for us...and would be a welcome addition to our rather dusty trophy cabinet.

On the flip side, i don't think Wenger will stay beyond this season without us acheiving both, it's just conceivable that he might decide to stay if we win the fa cup, because the ill feeling against him will be softened even for finishing outside the top four but winning a trophy. The pressure is on, and it's not from the board....but i think he genuinely meant it when he said him signing a new contract was determined on how he felt we acheived this season. Finishing 4th place again after being top in February and then failing to win anything, i think he knows the feeling will be too too much against him. Finishing 5th and winning the fa cup, it's anyones guess what he do. Finish top four and win the fa and he signs a contract extension.

[Letters]

Need an option for both, why should it be a choice?
Because the whole point of this poll is to ask which people value more.

[Gooner23]

Depends if Wenger is here next season.

If he is then I'd take the cup, if its a new manager I think Champs league is more important if we want to make the top signings this squad needs.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Depends if Wenger is here next season.

If he is then I'd take the cup, if its a new manager I think Champs league is more important if we want to make the top signings this squad needs.

I agree (looking at it objectively anyway)

If we don't win the cup though, I think I'd be more devestated than when my last dog had to be put to sleep....unbearable sense of loss.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I agree (looking at it objectively anyway)

If we don't win the cup though, I think I'd be more devestated than when my last dog had to be put to sleep....unbearable sense of loss.

Then again you can only imagine what Liverpool fans will be feeling if they don't go on and win the title.

They will be fishing people out of the Mersey for weeks

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Cup.

Missing out on champions league money means fuck all as we don't spend it, plus we hardly need more money at the moment.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't know we haven't turned a profit without player sales for years, and losing all that tv money and the 30million will be a big blow.
Whatever cash reserves we have will be be needed to guarantee the wage bill so can't imagine will be anything left for transfer fees.
We can survive without champions league football, but survive and spend...certainly not we can barely afford that even with champions league money.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't know we haven't turned a profit without player sales for years, and losing all that tv money and the 30million will be a big blow.
Whatever cash reserves we have will be be needed to guarantee the wage bill so can't imagine will be anything left for transfer fees.
We can survive without champions league football, but survive and spend...certainly not we can barely afford that even with champions league money.

I think the only thing we could do is borrow the money and make a loss, which when your competing with sides that can run at huge losses is unwise.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think you'd have to reconcile yourself to the fact that if we miss out this season itd be a hell of a long time before we get it again.

[LDG]

Talking to yourself :bow:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Talking to yourself :bow:

Well I prefer to think of it as thinking out loud, if I was talking to myself there would be an internal debate going on, or maybe I'm just saying that to convince myself I'm not going mad.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha he he he he he he ha ha ha ha ha ha ha he he he kill them all he he he he he he ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha he he he he he he he he he he

[McNamara That Ghost...]

FA Cup. Mainly because we have to rely on other results to get fourth now.

[Alpha]

Both

[Globalgunner]

Thing is, the FA cup is altogether winnable now. Not to win against Hull would be a nightmare even greater than our defeat to Birmingham because we realistically should beat them 9 times out of 10. However when you stand back and analyse our predicament we really cannot afford to drop out of CL. Pool will use the CL to reinforce and will be strong candidates next season whether they win the PL this season or not. You can see that Henry is a sports lover and will throw more money at them. They have a good manager they will be better. United wont stand still, they will spend whatever it takes to get back on top and will surely have a back up plan for a new manager by Xmas if Moyes looks like being a dud again. That leaves us......you know who our manager is and who our management are.

Wenger will say...."I believe in this group of players. They have the right spirit, determination and quality to challenge for the title next year. Yes not playing in the CL is a setback but we can win the Europa and show that we are still a force in Europe......" He wont buy anyone..or the players wont come...next season we will be 6th or 7th. In fact the absolute worst scenario is Everton coming 4th. They will also try their best to upgrade and Martinez will find more quality loanees that Wenger will never do. We could end up 8th behind the Spuds.....We wont be back in the CL for at least 6 years. HCZ will then say we cant compete against Everton and Tottenham`s riches.

How on earth did it get to this?. I cant believe you guys are saying you'd rather host the likes of Sevilla, Trabsonspor and Grasshoppers than the likes of Barca Madrid, Bayern. That music, those check decals on the stadium. You guys are just being emotional.....Come back to earth please. The FA cup is great but really. This is a cup we won so often, they were about giving it to us for keeps. We should be winning that thing every 3 years at least.....Why arent we...the same reason we are having this poll. We have gone from being kings to run of the mill Dukes and Earls

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Then again you can only imagine what Liverpool fans will be feeling if they don't go on and win the title.

They will be fishing people out of the Mersey for weeks

Weeks? :lol:

Decades.

[Power n Glory]

Both shouldn't be beyond us. But I actually think Champs League is more important for us for this season. I don't want any excuses about spending money next year or finding it difficult to attract players. We'd lose out on the home game gate revenue, along with the TV money.

I want us to be in the best position to attract players and a new coach for next year. Winning the final but coming 5th will still feel like a poor season. I think we need to start thinking long term if it's beyond this team to do both. It's really depressing.

[Özim]

Couldn't give a toss about 4th to be honest, CL bores me sh*tless are we have no chance of ever getting anywhere in it.

Cup for me.

Be nice to win it in style as well rather than with a borefest.

[Özim]

Dont really care about 4th or Champions league, if all we are going to do is qualify for the second round and get knocked out the moment we play a team with 11 football players. We have got 4th every season for almost a decade (peppered with 3rd) and it has provided me ZERO happiness.

I think winning a trophy will be a great springboard for us to go onto better things. FA Cup any day for me. In fact, I'd prefer the Carling cup over 4th place trophy.

Totally agree, with a different manager I'd probably enjoy the CL more due to the increased unpredictability, with Wenger in charge I get zero enjoyment, someone may as well say he's the money for qualifying for the last 16 don't bother playing.

It has to be said that Wenger has been exposed in Europe, so many years in Europe with several clubs and he's not even managed to fluke a win in any competition, basically in Europe he doesn't have what it takes to succeed.

I can remember when Man U were chasing the CL after not winning it, it was hard but they kept knocking on the door and eventually they got there, get to the end of the path and fall through the trapdoor everytime we get there.

Wenger hails qualifying for the CL for x amount of years, but I wonder if there's any manager with a worse record in Europe than him in terms of performance over such a long period.

[Globalgunner]

Couldn't give a toss about 4th to be honest, CL bores me sh*tless are we have no chance of ever getting anywhere in it.

Cup for me.

Be nice to win it in style as well rather than with a borefest.

You should worry about our corporate sponsors.....many of them will do a runner if we are not in the CL. I would be amazed if there wasn't a clause in the contracts that allows them to pay less if we aren't in it.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Cup without a doubt.

Need something to celebrate now having waited 9 seasons.

[fakeyank]

Seeing BFG lift the trophy would be awesome :cloud9:

Hope Arteta is nowhere near the stadium, let alone wearing the arm band!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Seeing BFG lift the trophy would be awesome :cloud9:

Hope Arteta is nowhere near the stadium, let alone wearing the arm band!

we could always apply to the home office to get a deportation order to send him back to san sebastien, but i don't know if we could get it done in time for the cup final

[Özil's Panoramic View]

He did get the pel scoring off to a proper start in the semis, tbf. :lol:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

What's with all the Arteta hate...?

Easy decision. No decision even......FA cup.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Fa cup all day long.

I'm actually starting to think that missing out on the CL for a season might not be a bad thing.

Psychologically, it could make the players try a damn sight harder next season to fight their way back into it and give them less of a sense of entitlement.

It's all well and good finishing top 4 every year but does it really give the players much of a reason to fight and play the best they can when it seemingly becomes commonplace?

[Munchies]

If we don't get 4th, we will get Europa league football.

Spuds/Arsenal final ? Stopping their only chance of CL footy again :lol:

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Can we come 17th just for one season, please?

You just know the spuds will be 18th or lower then.

[Marc Overmars]

A part of me is curious to see how we'd fare in the Europa League. We always seem to qualify from our CL groups with relative ease and most of the time they're made up of Europa League standard teams. If there's a chance we'd take it seriously I don't think it's the worst thing in the world really, we aren't exactly awash with European history and success, we're still lightweights in that sense, so it would be a good chance to build that up. We'd gain far more credibility from a strong EL showing than we would from our usual last 16 exits in the CL.

The only concern is how it would affect our pull when it comes to attracting super quality players.

[Power n Glory]

We'd choke as usual. We went to the UEFA Cup final against Galatasaray and flopped. I just want Wenger gone so we can have a fresh chapter. We've stagnated for too long and it's catching up on us.

[Letters]

:doh: That was in 2000, way before we were known for choking.
We battered them in that game and had 'one of those days'.

I don't think one year out of the CL would be as big a disaster as some are making out and I don't think it would be a one way trip and we'd never get back in the top 4. We've got enough history of qualifying to suggest that with the right signings in the summer we'd be up there again even if we don't finish top 4 this year.

[Dein-machine]

:doh: That was in 2000, way before we were known for choking.
We battered them in that game and had 'one of those days'.

I don't think one year out of the CL would be as big a disaster as some are making out and I don't think it would be a one way trip and we'd never get back in the top 4. We've got enough history of qualifying to suggest that with the right signings in the summer we'd be up there again even if we don't finish top 4 this year.

Where's our history of the "right signings in the summer"? - Man Utd will have to buy big & they will, If City lose out they'll buy the best, The ambition at Liverpool is clear to see, they will strengthen defensively & probably buy another quality midfielder & ofcourse Maureen will be spending Roman's money to bring in a world class forward-line. If Wenger has his usual summer of under priced bids, not meeting wage demands etc, we will struggle for 5th place next year.

[Letters]

We don't have much of a history of right signings, granted, but we clearly tried to get Suarez last summer and we did get Ozil who, for all his patchy form, is clearly a great player and is by some distance the most ambitious signing we've made for ages. The new commercial deals are in place so we should be able to continue that.
We led the table for a long time this year, we're looking poor right now but I don't believe we're suddenly a bad side. I think we'll be OK next year.

[Power n Glory]

:doh: That was in 2000, way before we were known for choking.
We battered them in that game and had 'one of those days'.

I don't think one year out of the CL would be as big a disaster as some are making out and I don't think it would be a one way trip and we'd never get back in the top 4. We've got enough history of qualifying to suggest that with the right signings in the summer we'd be up there again even if we don't finish top 4 this year.

We had a rep for choking in Europe during that period and competing in lesser competition didn't help our nerves even though we had some great players. What makes you think we'd fair any better when this 'choking' problem has grown worse and we have lesser players than we did years before?

[Letters]

Who said I thought we'd fare any better?

[Power n Glory]

Who said I thought we'd fare any better?

Then what's your point?

[Letters]

My point is you asserting we'd 'choke as usual', and using something that happened 14 years ago as backup, is pretty spurious.

[Power n Glory]

My point is you asserting we'd 'choke as usual', and using something that happened 14 years ago as backup, is pretty spurious.

I don't think so. When we were bossing the Premier League, the talk of the town was about our poor CL league performances. We'd hardly ever turn up and pressure got to us. Going to a lesser competition won't settle the nerves and if that was true 14 years ago when we had a team of title winners, it's even more true today with our frail and mentally weak team.

[Letters]

We've actually done better in the CL since that era. Yes, we're consistently losing to the real European giants but this year we got through a tough group. Against a lesser calibre of opposition in the Europa League I reckon we'd do OK.

[Power n Glory]

We've actually done better in the CL since that era. Yes, we're consistently losing to the real European giants but this year we got through a tough group. Against a lesser calibre of opposition in the Europa League I reckon we'd do OK.

Yes, like we've done okay in the League Cup final against Birmingham or scraping through against Wigan on Penalties? Lesser calibre makes no difference if you can't control your nerves. We've gotten better in Europe when the pressure isn't on but fumble it when the pressure is turned back on. We should have topped our group this year.

[Letters]

Contolled our nerves pretty well during the penalties.

[Power n Glory]

It's Wigan! A league one side. It shouldn't have got to penalties. It's not even the final. It's foolish to think we'd fair better in that competition in light of the last few years. The Europa League will have tougher teams. Atletico won that competition, Juve are still in it. It's no walk in the park.

[Letters]

So penalties aren't a high pressure situation?

[Power n Glory]

So penalties aren't a high pressure situation?

:doh: Are you serious? Wigan, Letters! Wigan!

We should have had that won in 90 minutes.

[Letters]

OK. I'll try that again. See if you can have a shot at answering this time:
Penalties in an FA Cup semi-final. Is that a high pressure situation?
It's a pretty simple yes/no question really :shrug:

EDIT: Is that the same Wigan who beat City in the final last year and again in the quarters this year...?

[Power n Glory]

OK. I'll try that again. See if you can have a shot at answering this time:
Penalties in an FA Cup semi-final. Is that a high pressure situation?
It's a pretty simple yes/no question really :shrug:

EDIT: Is that the same Wigan who beat City in the final last year and again in the quarters this year...?

Yes, that's high pressure. But should it have gone to penalties? Should we be struggling against Wigan in a cup game? No! The Europa Cup won't be a walk in the park just because of lesser opposition. It shouldn't take this long to explain this to you.

[Letters]

I don't think the Europa Cup will be a walk in the park. But we've done pretty well in the CL against the lesser sides, it's generally only been when we've played a Barca or a Bayern when we've come unstuck. I think we'd do OK.

And no, of course we shouldn't be taken to penalties by Wigan. Wigan shouldn't be beating City in the final or the quarter final but these things happen in football.

[Power n Glory]

Birmingham league cup final? Dropping from 1st to 5th in the league? It happens way to often against us and I don't think competing in the Europa League will make a difference.

No point in mentioning City because they've won the League Cup and they're still in the title race.

[Letters]

Fine, but the Cup Final is a chance to get that monkey off our back.
If we don't then I despair but we should win it and if we do that could be a springboard to bigger things.

[Power n Glory]

I'm not even sure the FA Cup win is enough to act as a springboard, especially if we drop out of the top 4.

[Letters]

You are a cheery soul :rolleyes:

[selassie]

I'm not even sure the FA Cup win is enough to act as a springboard, especially if we drop out of the top 4.

Me either. The bare minimum is a top 4 place and the fa cup coupled by a summer of proper signings/squad building.

I personally think even if we achieve top 4 place and cup win but have a summer of Wenger "low balling and dithering" the knives will be out in full force come the start of the season.

I personally want Wenger gone irrespective of what happens this season.

[Globalgunner]

Any optimism that still exists in these parts should be dampened by the prospect of U know Who still being in charge. If a situation can be choked, he will find a way. Next summer he still wont buy what's needed. He will instead be driven by the need to prove that this season was a fluke, stick with the same players and stick with the same methods. Anyone who thinks different clearly hasn't been watching closely these last 10 years. Blame injuries and whatever, anything but changing course.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

A part of me is curious to see how we'd fare in the Europa League. We always seem to qualify from our CL groups with relative ease and most of the time they're made up of Europa League standard teams. If there's a chance we'd take it seriously I don't think it's the worst thing in the world really, we aren't exactly awash with European history and success, we're still lightweights in that sense, so it would be a good chance to build that up. We'd gain far more credibility from a strong EL showing than we would from our usual last 16 exits in the CL.

The only concern is how it would affect our pull when it comes to attracting super quality players.
I have little hang up about trying to win the Europa league like you as it is another trophy and isn't met with the ridicule, abroad, it is often encounters on these shores. My main concern is that I hear from starting a campaign to winning the thing takes something approaching 20 games. That's takes our games tally to almost 60 games without even counting Capital one cup or FA cup games. I shudder to imagine it with a squad with our injury record.

I don't think one year out of the CL is a hugely big deal myself, if you take that in isolation. If you start the league well the following year and are top or thereabouts you tend to be taken seriously in spite of not being in the CL. Liverpool have alarmingly proved that and we have heard very little from the Suarez camp about the fact he isn't playing CL football or even the fact that prick John W Henry lied about the clause in his contract.

[Bumble]

FA Cup would be good, we play CL football every year and apart from a handful of games it is pretty boring. Its also not like we use the money from CL football or the prestige from CL football to benefit the team in anyway. The signings havent been top drawer for a long while (apart Ozil), so if we finish 5th will it really make any difference to our spending plans. Perhaps it might actually spark something into life with a desire to get back in the CL giving the club something to strive and improve on.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

FA Cup would be good, we play CL football every year and apart from a handful of games it is pretty boring. Its also not like we use the money from CL football or the prestige from CL football to benefit the team in anyway. The signings havent been top drawer for a long while (apart Ozil), so if we finish 5th will it really make any difference to our spending plans. Perhaps it might actually spark something into life with a desire to get back in the CL giving the club something to strive and improve on.

Totally agree mate.

[Power n Glory]

Me either. The bare minimum is a top 4 place and the fa cup coupled by a summer of proper signings/squad building.

I personally think even if we achieve top 4 place and cup win but have a summer of Wenger "low balling and dithering" the knives will be out in full force come the start of the season.

I personally want Wenger gone irrespective of what happens this season.

That's how I feel. I just think it's time for Wenger to step down. When he continues to say 'buying isn't the answer' and 'we're unlucky with injuries', I just think we're setting ourselves up for more of the same.

[Power n Glory]

Any optimism that still exists in these parts should be dampened by the prospect of U know Who still being in charge. If a situation can be choked, he will find a way. Next summer he still wont buy what's needed. He will instead be driven by the need to prove that this season was a fluke, stick with the same players and stick with the same methods. Anyone who thinks different clearly hasn't been watching closely these last 10 years. Blame injuries and whatever, anything but changing course.

I agree with that too. Not much optimism for next season if he's still in charge.

[Power n Glory]

You are a cheery soul :rolleyes:

What do you expect? Should I be convinced by anything I've seen this season?

[Letters]

What do you expect? Should I be convinced by anything I've seen this season?

A month ago I'd have said yes, I never expected us to win the league but we seemed to be showing clear progress. We were up there and winning some games which last year we'd definitely have dropped points in. I'm not sure if the collapse has been a case of us 'bottling' it or just running out of steam and a weak squad failing to cope with a few key injuries have caused us.

As unconvincing as the semi-final was in any Cup run where will be games where it's tight and could have gone the other way. Last time we won it Sheffield Utd drew at Highbury, took us to a replay which we won on penalties. You need a bit of luck sometimes in the cup.

If we win the FA Cup then it gets this monkey off our back about not winning trophies. The league season has been a weird one with some very promising signs and some very worrying ones.

Things aren't all rosy, but it's not all doom and gloom either.

[Power n Glory]

We always have promising signs each season but do very little to address the major issues. A win in the FA Cup would be a great send off for Wenger.

[Dein-machine]

A month ago I'd have said yes, I never expected us to win the league but we seemed to be showing clear progress. We were up there and winning some games which last year we'd definitely have dropped points in. I'm not sure if the collapse has been a case of us 'bottling' it or just running out of steam and a weak squad failing to cope with a few key injuries have caused us.

As unconvincing as the semi-final was in any Cup run where will be games where it's tight and could have gone the other way. Last time we won it Sheffield Utd drew at Highbury, took us to a replay which we won on penalties. You need a bit of luck sometimes in the cup.

If we win the FA Cup then it gets this monkey off our back about not winning trophies. The league season has been a weird one with some very promising signs and some very worrying ones.

Things aren't all rosy, but it's not all doom and gloom either.

I agree with the season being a wierd one. After buying Ozil, with Rambo & Giroud scoring goals we looked good, progressing defensively & during this time Walcott was out injured. We were purring at the thought of Walcott's pace matched with Ozil's asists.
As Walcott came back to fitness, we were in our tough period of games against Utd,Everton, Chelsea, City & Napoli. Wenger had started to shit himself & play too defensively. This meant he didn't play Walcott at times & Ozil was asked to become Lee Cattermole. Then as we came out of this period without Rambo & the teams & Ozil's confidence shredded thanks to Wenger's negativity, Walcott then goes & gets injured again. Never mind, we had the whole of the January window to make sure we got some pace & goalscoring ability upfront, we had lost Rambo & Walcott (our main goal threats) & Giroud had turned into Bendtner - there's no way on earth a man who knows what he's doing & is paid £7 mill a year because he's so good couldn't see this & wouldn't act - the rest is history & we are where we are.

[Niall_Quinn]

I agree with the season being a wierd one. After buying Ozil, with Rambo & Giroud scoring goals we looked good, progressing defensively & during this time Walcott was out injured. We were purring at the thought of Walcott's pace matched with Ozil's asists.
As Walcott came back to fitness, we were in our tough period of games against Utd,Everton, Chelsea, City & Napoli. Wenger had started to shit himself & play too defensively. This meant he didn't play Walcott at times & Ozil was asked to become Lee Cattermole. Then as we came out of this period without Rambo & the teams & Ozil's confidence shredded thanks to Wenger's negativity, Walcott then goes & gets injured again. Never mind, we had the whole of the January window to make sure we got some pace & goalscoring ability upfront, we had lost Rambo & Walcott (our main goal threats) & Giroud had turned into Bendtner - there's no way on earth a man who knows what he's doing & is paid £7 mill a year because he's so good couldn't see this & wouldn't act - the rest is history & we are where we are.

Good summary. Wenger's negativity and fear has increased over the season and our results and performances have declined in direct proportion. In trying to keep a thin squad fit and available he's killed our game in the process. His fault for not taking the steps necessary in the Jan window. The first game against Everton was a big turning point because our performance in that match was horrible compared to what we'd done before. Everyone said it was a good result to scrape a draw playing like an anti-Arsenal. Now look. We played that way ever since and giving up those 2 points is now reflected neatly in the table. The mentality fostered in that game finally manifested itself in a shocking performance and defeat in the return match. Boom, 6 easy points gone to our routine bitches with us playing so badly people have started to think Everton are actually any good.

[selassie]

Good summary. Wenger's negativity and fear has increased over the season and our results and performances have declined in direct proportion. In trying to keep a thin squad fit and available he's killed our game in the process. His fault for not taking the steps necessary in the Jan window. The first game against Everton was a big turning point because our performance in that match was horrible compared to what we'd done before. Everyone said it was a good result to scrape a draw playing like an anti-Arsenal. Now look. We played that way ever since and giving up those 2 points is now reflected neatly in the table. The mentality fostered in that game finally manifested itself in a shocking performance and defeat in the return match. Boom, 6 easy points gone to our routine bitches with us playing so badly people have started to think Everton are actually any good.

Regarding the bit I have highlighted, the problem is NQ Wenger has always been like that. His philosophy seems to be about keeping a small squad of players together. This is all well and good when the said players have great fitness records but ours don't. A third of our first XI are crocks, they get crocked every single season.

Even as far back as the invincibles, it was a fairly small squad of albeit World Class players that we used, our depth was better back then quality wise I will admit, but the squad was by no means deep.

I very much doubt Wenger will change regarding the Squad and it's make up, he will go into next season with a thin squad of players, it's just how he operates.

[Kano]

Two years ago, Wenger wanted to look at the reasons why we keep picking up so many injuries. Two years later he is saying the same thing.

It's obvious the training methods need changing but he will not do that. Raymond Verheijen had a go last week regarding the methods used which are backed up by the amount of injuries we get compared to other top teams.

Add to the fact that every season, whether it be defence, midfield, attack - there is always an area that is overlooked and ends up costing us dearly.

My view hasn't changed since last season, he needs to go, FA Cup/4th or not. The club needs a change as much as he does. The game is becoming younger and younger both in terms of players, coaches and managers and it's a route we need to get down onto.

Regardless of how much we spend next season Wenger is no longer capable of managing the squad sufficiently to get the best out of them across a whole season.

[Maestro]

Two years ago, Wenger wanted to look at the reasons why we keep picking up so many injuries. Two years later he is saying the same thing.

It's obvious the training methods need changing but he will not do that. Raymond Verheijen had a go last week regarding the methods used which are backed up by the amount of injuries we get compared to other top teams.

Add to the fact that every season, whether it be defence, midfield, attack - there is always an area that is overlooked and ends up costing us dearly.

My view hasn't changed since last season, he needs to go, FA Cup/4th or not. The club needs a change as much as he does. The game is becoming younger and younger both in terms of players, coaches and managers and it's a route we need to get down onto.

Regardless of how much we spend next season Wenger is no longer capable of managing the squad sufficiently to get the best out of them across a whole season.

:gp:

got a link to the Raymond Verheijen article?

[Power n Glory]

Two years ago, Wenger wanted to look at the reasons why we keep picking up so many injuries. Two years later he is saying the same thing.

It's obvious the training methods need changing but he will not do that. Raymond Verheijen had a go last week regarding the methods used which are backed up by the amount of injuries we get compared to other top teams.

Add to the fact that every season, whether it be defence, midfield, attack - there is always an area that is overlooked and ends up costing us dearly.

My view hasn't changed since last season, he needs to go, FA Cup/4th or not. The club needs a change as much as he does. The game is becoming younger and younger both in terms of players, coaches and managers and it's a route we need to get down onto.

Regardless of how much we spend next season Wenger is no longer capable of managing the squad sufficiently to get the best out of them across a whole season.

Yeah, in total agreement. They're still looking into the investigation but Wenger's personal theory ....supplements are causing the issue. Legal supplements like stuff to treat hair loss! I wish I was making this up.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/04/arsenal-injuries-supplements-arsene-wenger

[Kano]

:gp:

got a link to the Raymond Verheijen article?
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/leading-coach-raymond-verheijen-says-theres-a-reason-for-arsenal-injuries-9239876.html

We can spend as much as we want on players but if they keep getting injured - as they have done for years now, then nothing will change.

None of this is even taking into account Wenger's static approach to games. He's still a good manager but not of the calibre we need anymore.

[IBK]

Two years ago, Wenger wanted to look at the reasons why we keep picking up so many injuries. Two years later he is saying the same thing.

It's obvious the training methods need changing but he will not do that. Raymond Verheijen had a go last week regarding the methods used which are backed up by the amount of injuries we get compared to other top teams.

Add to the fact that every season, whether it be defence, midfield, attack - there is always an area that is overlooked and ends up costing us dearly.

My view hasn't changed since last season, he needs to go, FA Cup/4th or not. The club needs a change as much as he does. The game is becoming younger and younger both in terms of players, coaches and managers and it's a route we need to get down onto.

Regardless of how much we spend next season Wenger is no longer capable of managing the squad sufficiently to get the best out of them across a whole season.

:gp: The thing that concerns me now is the transition - and the ability of a Wenger institution to manage this properly.