Match Reaction - 0-2 chelski

[adzzzbatch]

Wasn't as bad as last season but bad none the less. Wenger out.

[Mr. Lahey]

Wenger out

[fakeyank]

Moyes In

[milla]

Wenger out

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Atkinson just had to make the right first decision once in his measly life and we mght have had a chance.

As it is we got well and truly WUMgered.

[Globalgunner]

Well past his sell by date. It must be so soul destroying, as a player to have Wenger as your manager. Unless your name is Diaby.
I've wanted him gone since 2008. He is dead to me. Just have to wait it out. Only 2 more years now

[Darknight02]

Nothing to say.

We have good players. There comes a point when you have to realise that there are too many class players to blame them.

It's the fcuking manager.

Clueless and brainless. We will never go anywhere with Wenger in charge. You'd have hoped after winning the FA cup he'd have discovered the hunger again and addressed our glaring weaknesses. He didn't. Our competitors strengthened. And he played a direct part in that.

Fabregas would walk into any team in the world and can play in any midfield position. He's keeping Arteta and let Cesc go.

It's not the team or the players. It's the manager.

3 more years of this shit. Never going to change.

I admired him. Last season it became indifference. And now it genuinely saddens me to see Arsenal with Wenger in charge. Especially given we have great players just stagnating and going backwards.

Don't know how to change it other than we go out of the CL places.

[Marc Overmars]

Not as suicidal as last year but just lacking in quality up front thanks to a simple but effective approach from Chelsea - cede possession to us, cut off the supply line and pick your moments on the counter. It was essentially a lightweight poking jabs at a heavyweight who barely flinched, then delivered a KO in one quick move.

Oh so predictable, I'm not sure even Mourinho can believe how easy it is for him against a Wenger team.

2 wins from 7 games. :lol:

Lame.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger lost it in the same way he has lost all the others. And the next time we play them he'll do exactly the same. And the time after, and the time after that. Played right into their hands, played the exact game they would have expected and planned for. Chavs didn't even have to play, they just sat back and let us do that tippy tappy shit for 90 mins, then hit us on the break. AS USUAL. Nothing learned, nothing changed, nothing different, same outcome.

SUBS WERE A FUCKING JOKE.

[adzzzbatch]

Well past his sell by date. It must be so soul destroying, as a player to have Wenger as your manager. Unless your name is Diaby.
I've wanted him gone since 2008. He is dead to me. Just have to wait it out. Only 2 more years now

Cazorla's face when he was subbed painted a picture.

[Letters]

I cleverly saved 2 hours of my life by not watching it, as I knew we'd lose.

That's the depressing thing. There's no disgrace losing there but it's depressing going there believing we have no chance of getting anything and, sure enough, it pans out exactly as expected. With the players we have we should be going into these games feeling we have some chance.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Will we ever beat a top club in the league?

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger lost it in the same way he has lost all the others. And the next time we play them he'll do exactly the same. And the time after, and the time after that. Played right into their hands, played the exact game they would have expected and planned for. Chavs didn't even have to play, they just sat back and let us do that tippy tappy shit for 90 mins, then hit us on the break. AS USUAL. Nothing learned, nothing changed, nothing different, same outcome.

SUBS WERE A FUCKING JOKE.

It's quite impressive really how we all could have predicted how this match would pan out. Right down to the fine details.

[Niall_Quinn]

Will we ever beat a top club in the league?

Wenger could get a cold and have to stay in bed for matchday. It could happen. But that's about the only chance we have.

[Darknight02]

With Wenger in charge, never and I hope it stays that way because I hope the humiliation will get to him and he'll leave.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Cock.

Horrible way to go into the break.

2 wins out of 7 is not acceptable.

[Gooner23]

There's no point in sky actually showing these matches live anymore, just save your money and play a recording from any one of the last few seasons.

[fakeyank]

With Wenger in charge, never and I hope it stays that way because I hope the humiliation will get to him and he'll leave.

Guys got a thick skin like a rhino. He will just keep collecting his measly 8 million pounds a year pay check and work hard to 'improve' our club.

[Darknight02]

I've got to the point to saying that I just can't blame Ozil for these performances. I mean you have a player who's confidence is shot anyway. He plays a super performance in his best position in a game and then is shunted immediately to his weakest.

Which manager does that? We all know. The specialist in failure.

Mourinho is the most spiteful prick in football. But amongst ourselves, do any of us disagree?

[RomfordPele]

Easy for Chelsea: Cesc shines; Ozil struggles. What a surprise.

Nice one wenger, you utter, utter clown.

[Darknight02]

Guys got a thick skin like a rhino. He will just keep collecting his measly 8 million pounds a year pay check and work hard to 'improve' our club.

That's what pisses me off. Wenger is actually mercenary. I'll be so happy the day he leaves.

He's become a cancer at the club.

And I used to be one of his biggest fans.

[Power n Glory]

Predictable. He's a complete bufoon for leaving Ozil on and taking off our three hardest working players.

Also, when are we going to give up the ghost on Ozil? It's been over a year now and he's not getting any better.

Welbeck had another one of those games where I though we'd have been better off playing Giroud or Sango! He needs to get more involved with our play.

[Gooner23]

I've got to the point to saying that I just can't blame Ozil for these performances. I mean you have a player who's confidence is shot anyway. He plays a super performance in his best position in a game and then is shunted immediately to his weakest.

Which manager does that? We all know. The specialist in failure.

Mourinho is the most spiteful prick in football. But amongst ourselves, do any of us disagree?

Na, Ozil can do one as well. He's a pro footballer on mega money. Just because he's managed by the nutty professor, doesn't mean he can get away with strolling around and not giving a flying fuck?

[Darknight02]

Easy for Chelsea: Cesc shines; Ozil struggles. What a surprise.

Nice one wenger, you utter, utter clown.

Chelsea = manager who's a winner, winners mentality and plays Cesc in his best position and gives him the players and formation around him to shine

Arsenal = manager who's a loser, lost the fight and will to win long ago, plays a rolls Royce player put of position, without the players to support him and kills a players heart and career in the process, how long before Alexis iron will and heart die out.

[Darknight02]

Na, Ozil can do one as well. He's a pro footballer on mega money. Just because he's managed by the nutty professor, doesn't mean he can get away with strolling around and not giving a flying fuck?

I agree. I'm far from giving Ozil an easy ride.

But you give him to Mourinho and I guarantee he'll find a way to make him shine.

[Darknight02]

We are at a position now where new players actually won't improve us with who we have in charge. That's worrying.

[Master Splinter]

Shit game. Shit ref. Shit approach, as ever. Oh, and shit subs.

Decided by two moments of excellent play, but we didn't lay a punch on them really.

If Wenger has no confidence in his own players, what's the point. No momentum or continued pressure on the opposition can be created with a conservative formation which allows none of the players to excel.

And absolutely no flexibility once again to see Ozil is playing poorly and should be hauled off. It's decided that Ozil will always play wherever, whenever so players playing well will be taken off to continue the status quo. Ox must also be sacrificed for senior players despite being an unpredictable threat. It required injuries for Wenger to play a game suited to our players on Wednesday. It will take the right 11 players left standing for him to stumble upon a correct shape again.

Gibbs, Cazorla and Sanchez did quite well. Even Flamini was OK, up against Atkinson.

Boring boring Arsenal. Only Sanogo can save us now.

[Globalgunner]

We are at a position now where new players actually won't improve us with who we have in charge. That's worrying.
We've been there a long time. It started with Arshavin . Another player ruined by Wumger

[Power n Glory]

I agree. I'm far from giving Ozil an easy ride.

But you give him to Mourinho and I guarantee he'll find a way to make him shine.

The manager doesn't know what he's doing. Two superior number 10's on the field compared to Jack and shunts one in a deeper midfield position and the other to the right. Ozil won't play well under Wenger. It's been over a year and when a new signing has this long to adjust and nothing is ticking, they just fade out. If it weren't for his price tag, he'd end up like Gervinho or Pod at least.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Just another five more losses against Chelsea in the league until Wenger is gone.

[Marc Overmars]

And absolutely no flexibility once again to see Ozil is playing poorly and should be hauled off. It's decided that Ozil will always play wherever, whenever so players playing well will be taken off to continue the status quo.

More often than not he's always one of the first candidates to be subbed but inexplicably ends up lasting the 90, it's just baffling. He's not effective in the slightest, I don't understand what Wenger sees in him to elevate him to his level of perceived importance.

A shell of a player, thanks to WUMger.

[Power n Glory]

Shit game. Shit ref. Shit approach, as ever. Oh, and shit subs.

Decided by two moments of excellent play, but we didn't lay a punch on them really.

If Wenger has no confidence in his own players, what's the point. No momentum or continued pressure on the opposition can be created with a conservative formation which allows none of the players to excel.

And absolutely no flexibility once again to see Ozil is playing poorly and should be hauled off. It's decided that Ozil will always play wherever, whenever so players playing well will be taken off to continue the status quo. Ox must also be sacrificed for senior players despite being an unpredictable threat. It required injuries for Wenger to play a game suited to our players on Wednesday. It will take the right 11 players left standing for him to stumble upon a correct shape again.

Gibbs, Cazorla and Sanchez did quite well. Even Flamini was OK, up against Atkinson.

Boring boring Arsenal. Only Sanogo can save us now.

That part in bold is on the money. He was fortunate to discover the Kos and Merts partnership. It will take the same again for him to stop playing square pegs in round holes.

[Gooner23]

I agree. I'm far from giving Ozil an easy ride.

But you give him to Mourinho and I guarantee he'll find a way to make him shine.

I do think Maureen would get more out of him. But Ozil's basic application was just not good enough today. Not wanting to scapegoat one player but we do need more from him.

The biggest problem with the club right now is Wenger though. How sad it has come to that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ozil has been played in the centre, with two busy wide man either side and Welbeck up top. It has worked a treat on both occasions. He's been played left where it has never worked.

Conclusion (if you are a stubborn old goat who can never, ever admit when he is wrong). Play him on the left.

Welbeck comes off a blinder against the Turks. Wenger isolates him against the most effective pair in the league and kills him completely by banning passes over 2 yards and insisting everything is played to feet. Not Welbeck's fault - has he suddenly decided not to try? Manager's fault 100%. Wenger has a habit of killing our momentum, whether it's throwing a minor cup game or inviting a loss in the CL once we've secured the runner-up spot.

Cazorla is the best player on the pitch, playing in his natural role for a change. Subbed. Rightly pissed. Another player's morale sunk. Cazorla also often looks like a lazy non-entity when isolated out on the flanks.

I'm just surprised Wenger plays Ches in goal - surely he could play DM? The result might be shit but try it 1,000 times and you never know.

We got Wengered and the chavs were there to pick up the easy 3 points.

[RomfordPele]

We've been there a long time. It started with Arshavin . Another player ruined by Wumger

Already signs of it with welbeck today, looking for the backwards pass when he should be driving forward.

Probably got bollocked by wenger for putting the ball in the net three times on Wednesday - gifts the opposition possession from the kick off after all. (Gotta watch those possession stats, lad.)

[Xhaka Can’t]

Predictable. He's a complete bufoon for leaving Ozil on and taking off our three hardest working players.

Also, when are we going to give up the ghost on Ozil? It's been over a year now and he's not getting any better.

Welbeck had another one of those games where I though we'd have been better off playing Giroud or Sango! He needs to get more involved with our play.

Or we could play a ball he could run on to and use his pace against slower defenders.

As for Ozil - I don;t care if it is him, Wenger or a combination of the two - he has been utter garbage, the biggest disappointment signing I can remember.

We need to get rid - just the sight of him depresses me.

[Power n Glory]

More often than not he's always one of the first candidates to be subbed but inexplicably ends up lasting the 90, it's just baffling. He's not effective in the slightest, I don't understand what Wenger sees in him to elevate him to his level of perceived importance.

A shell of a player, thanks to WUMger.

I have yet to see Ozil make an awesome game changer of a pass like the one Cesc delivered today. There hasn't been one moment of brilliance that justifies him staying on for the full 90+. I haven't seen a single pass from him that I think no one else on our team can produce. It's all basic.

The guy is garbage.

[Letters]

Just another five more losses against Chelsea in the league until Wenger is gone.

Hey! :angry:
We might scrape a draw in a couple of the home games.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Ozil has been played in the centre, with two busy wide man either side and Welbeck up top. It has worked a treat on both occasions. He's been played left where it has never worked.

Conclusion (if you are a stubborn old goat who can never, ever admit when he is wrong). Play him on the left.

Welbeck comes off a blinder against the Turks. Wenger isolates him against the most effective pair in the league and kills him completely by banning passes over 2 yards and insisting everything is played to feet. Not Welbeck's fault - has he suddenly decided not to try? Manager's fault 100%. Wenger has a habit of killing our momentum, whether it's throwing a minor cup game or inviting a loss in the CL once we've secured the runner-up spot.

Cazorla is the best player on the pitch, playing in his natural role for a change. Subbed. Rightly pissed. Another player's morale sunk. Cazorla also often looks like a lazy non-entity when isolated out on the flanks.

I'm just surprised Wenger plays Ches in goal - surely he could play DM? The result might be shit but try it 1,000 times and you never know.

We got Wengered and the chavs were there to pick up the easy 3 points.

I'm not.

[gunnerrrrr]

Or we could play a ball he could run on to and use his pace against slower defenders.

As for Ozil - I don;t care if it is him, Wenger or a combination of the two - he has been utter garbage, the biggest disappointment signing I can remember.

We need to get rid - just the sight of him depresses me.

I have to wholly disagree with you mate.

Our two best performances this season have ironically coincided with Ozil in the middle.

What Wenger is unwilling to do is sacrifice players for the correct team balance and shape.

Play proper wingers on the wing, play aggressive ball winners in the middle and play your best creative player up top off the striker.

Having Carzola, Ozil, Wilshire, Ramsey, Arteta, Flamini all practically on the pitch at the same time is utterly pointless.

All you get is pointless passing, no runs into the box, and slow slow breaks.

This aint rocket science, but unfortunalty we have a uterlly clueless manager who rufuses to atcually take the time to balance his team.

[Power n Glory]

Or we could play a ball he could run on to and use his pace against slower defenders.

As for Ozil - I don;t care if it is him, Wenger or a combination of the two - he has been utter garbage, the biggest disappointment signing I can remember.

We need to get rid - just the sight of him depresses me.

It's at that point. He's turning into our Veron/Torres. There gets to point where you have to cut ties. He hasn't got what it takes.

[Power n Glory]

I have to wholly disagree with you mate.

Our two best performances this season have ironically coincided with Ozil in the middle.

What Wenger is unwilling to do is sacrifice players for the correct team balance and shape.

Play proper wingers on the wing, play aggressive ball winners in the middle and play your best creative player up top off the striker.

Having Carzola, Ozil, Wilshire, Ramsey, Arteta, Flamini all practically on the pitch at the same time is utterly pointless.

All you get is pointless passing, no runs into the box, and slow slow breaks.

This aint rocket science, but unfortunalty we have a uterlly clueless manager who rufuses to atcually take the time to balance his team.

Do you think we couldn't get the same from Cazorla playing in middle instead of shunted out wide or further back as a CM? His two best performances for us doesn't come close to what it's like when Santi is on form and that's the problem for me.

But I agree with a lot of what you've said. We've had the same problems in the past when he'd play Diaby or Eboue on the wings. He's even played Cesc and Denilson out wide just to try and fit all of his preferred players on the pitch.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I have to wholly disagree with you mate.

Our two best performances this season have ironically coincided with Ozil in the middle.

What Wenger is unwilling to do is sacrifice players for the correct team balance and shape.

Play proper wingers on the wing, play aggressive ball winners in the middle and play your best creative player up top off the striker.

Having Carzola, Ozil, Wilshire, Ramsey, Arteta, Flamini all practically on the pitch at the same time is utterly pointless.

All you get is pointless passing, no runs into the box, and slow slow breaks.

This aint rocket science, but unfortunalty we have a uterlly clueless manager who rufuses to atcually take the time to balance his team.

Agree with you about the clusterfuck that is our midfield. But those Ozil performances you mentioned weren't anything out of the ordinary. Any semi competent midfielder could have pulled them off.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger's gameplan

http://th04.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2012/142/e/6/moby_dick_by_enricogalli-d50ph9b.jpg

[Niall_Quinn]

It's at that point. He's turning into our Veron/Torres. There gets to point where you have to cut ties. He hasn't got what it takes.

Total nonsense. The bloke's a star player and world cup winner for the Germans. He was a great player for Madrid. Hasn't got what it takes? Utter bullshit.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

3 more years of this shit.

[Power n Glory]

Total nonsense. The bloke's a star player and world cup winner for the Germans. He was a great player for Madrid. Hasn't got what it takes? Utter bullshit.

Then where are the performances to back that up, NQ? Where?

He's not setting the world on fire for the German's either and their fans have quickly turned on him.

[Niall_Quinn]

3 more years of this shit.

Doubtful. Wenger will have to get with the program whether he likes it or not. Now the money is in there's no excuse for the results not arriving.

[Power n Glory]

Total nonsense. The bloke's a star player and world cup winner for the Germans. He was a great player for Madrid. Hasn't got what it takes? Utter bullshit.

Also, if the guy cost £4m instead of £40 odd, you'd be ripping into him like you do with the other non-performers.

[Globalgunner]

3 more years of this shit.
You're making it sound worse than it really is. 2 1/2, by my calculations

[Niall_Quinn]

Then where are the performances to back that up, NQ? Where?

He's not setting the world on fire for the German's either and their fans have quickly turned on him.

No they haven't quickly turned on him - that was media bullshit.

He's put in plenty of decent performances, two in the last few weeks when played centrally. Plenty more before that but this media hype has stuck and now the myth is cited as fact.

But he hasn't had as much influence on games as he ought to have had, that's true enough. Being stuck wide hasn't helped. He's the ultimate luxury player, the guy who adds the icing to the cake if everything else is set up properly around him (like at Madrid).

But you;re claiming he's garbage and not up to it - plainly that's bullshit.

[Niall_Quinn]

Also, if the guy cost £4m instead of £40 odd, you'd be ripping into him like you do with the other non-performers.

How do you know that?

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Doubtful. Wenger will have to get with the program whether he likes it or not. Now the money is in there's no excuse for the results not arriving.

You really think they'll sack him? No chance

[Munchies]

FUcking hate losing to these cunts

Fuck sake

[Niall_Quinn]

You really think they'll sack him? No chance

No, he'll be quietly pushed if he can't move the team on any further - even with funds. Won't even be "by mutual consent", they'll allow him to walk with some grace I would think. He might not want to go but Arsenal are on the gravy train ride now, cash coming in from all angles. We'll have to have some sort of results on the pitch to keep the train on the rails.

[Power n Glory]

How do you know that?

Because I've seen the amount you talk about Monreal and other lesser players without making excuses for them.

[Niall_Quinn]

Because I've seen the amount you talk about Monreal and other lesser players without making excuses for them.

What other players?

Monreal and Santos were the last two I've really laid into (ignoring Sanogo as he's not a player). Both are turds. I'll lay into any player who is a turd, regardless of fee.

[fakeyank]

Because I've seen the amount you talk about Monreal and other lesser players without making excuses for them.

I'd have Monreal over Ozil any day. Ozil is on par with Denilson and Santos for me. Offers absolutely nothing and in many cases, he is a huge liability.

[Power n Glory]

No they haven't quickly turned on him - that was media bullshit.

He's put in plenty of decent performances, two in the last few weeks when played centrally. Plenty more before that but this media hype has stuck and now the myth is cited as fact.

But he hasn't had as much influence on games as he ought to have had, that's true enough. Being stuck wide hasn't helped. He's the ultimate luxury player, the guy who adds the icing to the cake if everything else is set up properly around him (like at Madrid).

But you;re claiming he's garbage and not up to it - plainly that's bullshit.

Believe what you want on the German fan thing. I won't debate that.

Decent performances aren't great performances and let's not even get into performances against top opposition even when played in his best position.

Yes, am saying he's garbage because that's how he's playing. If he's up to the task, he'll prove me wrong. But how long does he need to get his act together?

[Power n Glory]

What other players?

Monreal and Santos were the last two I've really laid into (ignoring Sanogo as he's not a player). Both are turds. I'll lay into any player who is a turd, regardless of fee.

Sure.

[Marc Overmars]

No they haven't quickly turned on him - that was media bullshit.

He's put in plenty of decent performances, two in the last few weeks when played centrally. Plenty more before that but this media hype has stuck and now the myth is cited as fact.

But he hasn't had as much influence on games as he ought to have had, that's true enough. Being stuck wide hasn't helped. He's the ultimate luxury player, the guy who adds the icing to the cake if everything else is set up properly around him (like at Madrid).

But you;re claiming he's garbage and not up to it - plainly that's bullshit.

He's got to take some responsibility, luxury player or not. He meanders through games, bottles every 50/50 and sometimes even loses out when the odds are in his favour.

I think you're overstating the games when he played more centrally, he was ok, nothing more. Cazorla is the one who looks more effective when given the opportunity to play centrally.

[Niall_Quinn]

Okay, okay. Ozil is garbage.

[Niall_Quinn]

Sure.

Are you at least going to allow me to believe what I want?

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

No, he'll be quietly pushed if he can't move the team on any further - even with funds. Won't even be "by mutual consent", they'll allow him to walk with some grace I would think. He might not want to go but Arsenal are on the gravy train ride now, cash coming in from all angles. We'll have to have some sort of results on the pitch to keep the train on the rails.

No way mate, he'll be here as long as he wants cause Stan loves the fact he gets us top 4 without major investment.

The only way I can see him leaving is if we finish outside the top 4, and even then he might get another season to put it right.

[Power n Glory]

Are you at least going to allow me to believe what I want?

Sure. Believe what you want.

[Letters]

I'd have Monreal over Ozil any day. Ozil is on par with Denilson and Santos for me. Offers absolutely nothing and in many cases, he is a huge liability.

You do spout a load of nonsense sometimes, fella.

[Globalgunner]

Are you at least going to allow me to believe what I want?
Government policy states otherwise.You believe what we tell you to believe
You shouldn't however still need convincing that Wenger is crap.

[gunnerrrrr]

Someone tell me this is a wind up:

"Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger: "It was an even game, but at the end of the day they have financial power and used it in a effective way with players like Diego Costa and Eden Hazard making the difference."

Financial power??? Dont we have something like £170m sitting in the bank which we are paying tax on?

Whats finanical power got to do with utterly shocking tactics or the lack of....whats it got to do with only 2 wins in the premier league thus far...guy is officially crazy.

[Niall_Quinn]

No way mate, he'll be here as long as he wants cause Stan loves the fact he gets us top 4 without major investment.

The only way I can see him leaving is if we finish outside the top 4, and even then he might get another season to put it right.

That was top 4 without big money. Doubt they'll be so happy with shelling cash for breakeven.

[Niall_Quinn]

Sure. Believe what you want.

It's for the best. Besides, it'll save you having to believe stuff on my behalf.

[Bumble]

Wow that was predictable. Once the chavs scored first might well just end the game there. Suits there defensive sit back hoof ball football. Cech made one save and that was at the end.

Wenger has three years left. So we might as well just suck it up and expect the same next year.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ashton proving he knows a bit about football (again)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2781321/Chelsea-2-0-Arsenal-PLAYER-RATINGS-John-Terry-proves-worth-Blues-captain-colossal-performance.html

Cazorla 5.5 :haha:

[Marc Overmars]

Someone tell me this is a wind up:

"Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger: "It was an even game, but at the end of the day they have financial power and used it in a effective way with players like Diego Costa and Eden Hazard making the difference."

Financial power??? Dont we have something like £170m sitting in the bank which we are paying tax on?

Whats finanical power got to do with utterly shocking tactics or the lack of....whats it got to do with only 2 wins in the premier league thus far...guy is officially crazy.

Hey, it was difficult for us out there being forced to play bargain basement players like Ozil and Sanchez. How can we compete with that?

[topgun]

3 more years of this shit.

I've heard a lot of comments similar to this from a lot of fans recently and it amazes me that the feeling seems to be one of acceptance,surely its the responsibility of supporters to put pressure on the board and manager in these situations.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

I've heard a lot of comments similar to this from a lot of fans recently and it amazes me that the feeling seems to be one of acceptance,surely its the responsibility of supporters to put pressure on the board and manager in these situations.

At every other club he'd be gone but none of that works at our club mate, we have no voice.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Ridiculous comments by Wenger about the money.

The difference is that Chelsea have spent big on an area they needed to (Striker) whereas we spent big on a player who in honestly we weren't calling out for at the time (Ozil) whilst leaving big glaring holes in DM.

[Munchies]

https://i.imgur.com/MdIFD0f.jpg

[Munchies]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JxcAzRaH5BQ


it's true

[Power n Glory]

It's for the best. Besides, it'll save you having to believe stuff on my behalf.

It works both ways, NQ.

[fakeyank]

You do spout a load of nonsense sometimes, fella.

:lol:

Just like Moyes in! :haha:

[fakeyank]

Hey, it was difficult for us out there being forced to play bargain basement players like Ozil and Sanchez. How can we compete with that?

Wenger's comments are just stupid and deluded. That man has lost any sort of credibility. We have outspent Chelsea this season and if some reports are to be believed, we also have a higher wage bill than theirs. This old man is running out of excuses. He is as much a fraud as Ozil is..

I cant even comment about him without being massively disrespectful. He just needs to leave... piss of Wenger! :wave:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

People laugh at Moyes but Wenger has an identical record against the big boys :haha:

[topgun]

At every other club he'd be gone but none of that works at our club mate, we have no voice.

The way this club likes to run itself I don't think it would be too happy if supporters were to openly show their discontent with what is happening,after all it has gone past the old concern of not strenghting the team but is now about how the team is being managed.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

The way this club likes to run itself I don't think it would be too happy if supporters were to openly show their discontent with what is happening,after all it has gone past the old concern of not strenghting the team but is now about how the team is being managed.

We've done that though. There's been fights in the stands, people have held up anti-wenger/spend money banners, showed discontent in interviews etc, yet they act as if we're invisible

[Power n Glory]

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/519128/Arsene-Wenger-Jose-Mourinho-Chelsea-Arsenal

Wenger is full of excuses. The old financial doping argument is pathetic.

[Munchies]

I've had enough

#Wengerout

That Cesc assist :sick:

[topgun]

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/519128/Arsene-Wenger-Jose-Mourinho-Chelsea-Arsenal

Wenger is full of excuses. The old financial doping argument is pathetic.

He's like an old burnt out boxer who doesn't know when to quit.

[Maestro]

No reaction anymore, all out of reactions. Missed the game deliberately ....what's Wenger gone and done now, let me guess

http://soccer.cellc.mobi/wp-content/blogs.dir/2/files/2013/01/Wenger-smiling.jpg

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'd have had to make a slight alteration to my plans to watch this game.

I enjoyed a nice meal at al fresco while Arsenal were served up another helping of humble pie.

There simply is no point in watching Chelsea v Arsenal any more.

[Bumble]

It is early days but we are behind United and spurs and level with Liverpool.

[IBK]

Can't blame the effort of the players today (IMO even Ozil is just who he is - he wasn't particularly not trying ). But Wenger's whole football philosophy is dated and increasingly obsolete. Just like Dutch 'total football' had its day, Wenger's version of players being able to play multi positions; playing pretty triangles and going out to 'express themselves' is now increasingly susceptible to pragmatic, efficient counter attacking football like we saw today. Mourinho's players know exactly what they are doing; play in the positions where they are strongest; and are meticulously prepared tactically to face their particular opposition. Ours aren't. And soon it won't just be the top 4 teams able to find us out on a regular basis.

[Chippy]

Wasn't as bad as last season but bad none the less. Wenger out.

Wenger out indeed ! No fucking shots on target. Can he not see that he is incapable of managing some very good players? Another two and a half seasons of this shit.

[Munchies]

Next 5 fixtures:
Hull (H)
Sunderland (A)
Burnley (H)
Swansea (A)
Man U (H)

Must win atleast 4 of them

[gunnerrrrr]

Can't blame the effort of the players today (IMO even Ozil is just who he is - he wasn't particularly not trying ). But Wenger's whole football philosophy is dated and increasingly obsolete. Just like Dutch 'total football' had its day, Wenger's version of players being able to play multi positions; playing pretty triangles and going out to 'express themselves' is now increasingly susceptible to pragmatic, efficient counter attacking football like we saw today. Mourinho's players know exactly what they are doing; play in the positions where they are strongest; and are meticulously prepared tactically to face their particular opposition. Ours aren't. And soon it won't just be the top 4 teams able to find us out on a regular basis.

:gp:
Post of the day...in fact week.

100% spot on, and excellent analogy with the "Total Football" system.

I would go as far as saying that Barcelona, as brilliant as they are/were, would have not won 80% of their trophies without Messi....who is a once in a lifetime type of player.

My point being, possession football, or an attempt at it is fine to a degree. In fact even going out and saying we are better than you, is again fine...if you have the best players in the world or at least a few complete game changers at your disposal.

We in the past have been blessed with some phenomenal talent under Wenger, however it is no longer good enough to have the best talent, you also now need the very top, meticulous management and a continuously evolving system of play which i believe Wenger incapable of.

It is no accident he has lost 90% of the big games that have really counted....heck you could even use our loss against Birmingham in the CC as an example.

However when it has recently counted, be it against Mourhino, Sir Alex, Guardiola, Klopp etc - Wenger has been found wanting.

The squad we have now is without a doubt one that Mourhinio would take to the title quite comfortably, in fact he would make the additions we need and we could suddenly have a real shot at the Champions league. Unfortunately under Wenger, no way do i see that ever happening again.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

He may be excellent at certain aspects of management and his club building qualities and longevity have to be admired but when it comes to in game management and tactics he simply isn't anywhere near to the likes of Mourinho, Klopp, Ferguson, Ancelotti etc etc etc ..... the best managers in the world at that. It pains me to say it but it's true. The Invincibles success was predominately based on our players being that much better than their rivals and not because of tactical brilliance from Wenger's part. In fact, I'd say had Wenger shown more tactical aptitude we would have won a lot more (and we really should of have with that team) including possibly a European title.

Solution - Either Wenger stops being so stubborn and brings in top people to help like Ferguson did with his myriad of top coaches or he has to go.

[Xhaka Can’t]

There is no way he is changing. Bringing in someone else won't change that.

It is over - he has to go. So we'll be stagnating for another 2 seasons.

[Ernesto]

There is no way he is changing. Bringing in someone else won't change that.

It is over - he has to go. So we'll be stagnating for another 2 seasons.

If it means going two seasons of getting into 4th and possibly not winning another trophy between now and then, then I perhaps would grudgingly accept that.

The 'unknown' frightens me a little. We only need look at Spurs Manchester United or, as an extreme example, Villa. Examples of when change for the sake of change isn't necessarily what the Doctor ordered.

I agree that there ought to be some sort of accountability over continued poor results against the big teams in the big compétitions, but we all know that isn't possible while the board are filling their pockets via the Champions League cash cow.

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzNnjDECMAAfcFh.jpg

'It's alright, I'd rather that £30m go on a CDM'

[Niall_Quinn]

Alexis is twice the player, but if you have no clue how to deploy his talents then you aren't going to see results. Maureen has a clue when it comes to utilising his resources effectively. Wenger doesn't. That's what those stats tell us.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/05/1412518502307_wps_36_EROTEME_CO_UK_If_bylined_.jpg

That's deliberate and Alexis was very lucky not to end up in hospital.

[Niall_Quinn]

Another red card for going in two footed - but nowhere near as dangerous. Even so, silly challenge. Most telling was the way the slimy little cunt dived to the ground screaming. That's how much he loves Arsenal.

http://i.imgur.com/vXpkEUz.jpg

[Ralpheroo72]

Thank fuck for the international break

[1_nilto the arsenal]

Just watched the game again for my sins, I have to come the conclusion of our weakest players.

Szczesny - Not good enough, he is a liability and just cannot seem to concentrate for 90 mins. He is clumsy and mis times his runs out of the box, thinks he's better than he actually really is. Time for him to be benched and bring on Ospina.

Metersacker: To slow, no confidence on the ball and is not good enough in premiership football against nimble fast pace.

Koscielny - As above

Ozil - Dead wood, he offer nothing to the team, its as if we are playing with 10 men everytime he is picked, At £42 million he should be good enough to play in goal.

Flamini - Reminds me of a headless chicken running around with no idea of positioning or how to make a forward pass, no confidence, just useless.

Gibbs - Is not good enough for Arsenal.

Wilshire - The most over rated player, falls over too easily, over plays and is a liability for losing it.

[1_nilto the arsenal]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/05/1412518502307_wps_36_EROTEME_CO_UK_If_bylined_.jpg

That's deliberate and Alexis was very lucky not to end up in hospital.

Cahill you dirty northern bastard.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Another red card for going in two footed - but nowhere near as dangerous. Even so, silly challenge. Most telling was the way the slimy little cunt dived to the ground screaming. That's how much he loves Arsenal.

http://i.imgur.com/vXpkEUz.jpg

Wish he caught him full on.

[mastermind84]

Props to Welbeck for doing what none of those other cunts would do



anyway
http://banglagooner.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/407252_289632811100412_138812789515749_838846_6747 6814_n.jpg

[Munchies]

Wish he caught him full on.

:gp:

[adzzzbatch]

Arsenal have won none of their last 15 Premier League meetings against Chelsea, Man Utd or Man City (W0 D7 L8).

[selassie]

It's been touched on already but above anything else the difference yesterday was tactics and organisation. I accept Chelsea have a very strong side, arguably the best starting XI in PL but I do not believe they are massively superior to us. Their first XI is just balanced, they identified their weaknesses last season and went into the market in the summer and rectified them, it's really not rocket science. Why we didn't rectify our weaknesses is beyond me, what is Wenger seeing that everybody else doesn't seem to be seeing?

What we saw yesterday was one side who were thoroughly organised against a side who are not. Wenger has made a real mess of our starting XI, we are weak in a few positions and add to the fact we have players playing out of position because he is trying to shoe-horn all of his favourites into the side. No wonder we are languishing halfway down the table, until we sort out this mess I don't think things will improve, the team is woefully inbalanced.

We didn't actually play that badly yesterday, in spells we looked quite good but we lacked the killer instinct as per normal. It was pretty much normal service resumed, we just don't look up to causing any of our rivals real problems.

I think this season will turn out pretty similar to most seasons, I personally feel we are in a 3-way battle for top 4 with Liverpool and Spurs, I actually think United will finish above us this season which makes it all the more depresssing.

I know there is another thread for this but I personally feel Wenger has to go now, he has money and he is still not making a difference, he is still making the same mistakes, we are not moving forward as a team, it's as simple as that.

[Alpha]

It seems like the normal reaction of angry fans to a bitter defeat .
If we lost the game it is not because of Wenger or Ozil but some refereeing mistakes and naiveté from some of our players :
Foul on Sanchez was a straight red card .
Fabregas handball was a penalty and a yellow.
Eden Hasard run should have been dealt with earlier . Make a foul to prevent danger and accept a yellow card is better than letting a player dance in your area . To get yellow card in a dangerous position is more than stupid.
Chambers is the only one who sacrifice himself for the team and get yellow cards to prevent dangerous situation . And he is the youngest of all. And a newcomer.

[Niall_Quinn]

Chavs have been doing it to us for years. Running at our defenders, lumping the ball over the top and letting a powerful striker barge it into the net. Now we have a player who could have done that, but we religiously keep the ball on the deck and play it short. Tidy little patterns until we lose the ball on the 93rd pass, never shoot, always look for the next pass, move it left, move it right, trying to drag a tightly disciplined defence around that simply refuses to be dragged around. We probably could have played another 90 minutes of pointless tippy tappy and not had a strike on goal. When Wenger sees a stats like that, no shots on target, it will only encourage him to work harder on the 93rd pass.

And as for running at defenders, it's Ozil and Cazorla who should be doing that, not Jack. So he plays Jack as the focal point through the middle to guarantee another route to losing the ball. Play those fullbacks high so we are desperately exposed when pass #93 goes astray - recipe for disaster, the same half baked lasagne week in, week out. We usually get away with it against crappy teams, although this season even that's not happening. Against the big teams they just laugh at our naivety and tuck in for the 3 points.

How many times did we see Ivanovic and Azpilicueta charging up the pitch yesterday? How many times did Terry bomb through the middle like Kos was doing? Merts was the only defender who was disciplined - and he's the one getting most of the stick from the media and fans :doh: He's the grown-up in our defence and he needs to have more responsibility. Instead it's Arteta who is the captain - a guy being played out of position every match, a midget asked to be a destroyer. Ludicrous.

What about the subs? When the gameplan is yielding nothing what does Wenger do? He takes off the hardest runners, the guys keeping things together despite the awful tactics. Then he puts another victim into the same system, like for like. The only time he changes things for real is when injuries force us or he's desperately rolling the dice after the game is lost. What was the Podolski sub about yesterday, when we had already lost? Ridiculous. Why the hell bring Cazorla off? It beggars belief. Was he injured? That would be the only possible excuse.

Where's Walcott going to fit into this? More tippy tappy and backward play on the right wing? Or sprinting into space beyond the defender from balls played by our skilful but abused midfield? I think we know the answer.

We are relying on individual moments of excellence to pull our arses out of the tactical fire. Even with all our possession, possession the chavs were happy to concede yesterday, it all breaks down in the final third unless 2 or 3 individuals execute some training ground stunt with the required absolute precision. Other teams just find the space and run. The have other runners pulling defenders. They get in behind and lump the cross in. They play it ugly if it needs to be ugly. When was our last pub scramble in an opposition box where we eventually lashed the ball home? We don't do that, it's beneath us.

We have excellent players and a manager who doesn't have the foggiest how to use them. Or he probably does but for some reason thinks there's an even better way. A way that hasn't worked for years but you know, any day now it will work. Just keep doing the same thing over and over again and eventually it will work - or you will be carted away in a straitjacket, one or the other.

[Niall_Quinn]

It seems like the normal reaction of angry fans to a bitter defeat .
If we lost the game it is not because of Wenger or Ozil but some refereeing mistakes and naiveté from some of our players :
Foul on Sanchez was a straight red card .
Fabregas handball was a penalty and a yellow.
Eden Hasard run should have been dealt with earlier . Make a foul to prevent danger and accept a yellow card is better than letting a player dance in your area . To get yellow card in a dangerous position is more than stupid.
Chambers is the only one who sacrifice himself for the team and get yellow cards to prevent dangerous situation . And he is the youngest of all. And a newcomer.

Even I gave up blaming the ref. It's true, certain red - but then again Kos could have gone too. And Welbeck. And Flamini certainly should have got a red for that deliberate elbow. Don't think we can complain about the red too much other than to say it happened first so could have given us an advantage. But to think the chavs couldn't have pulled together 10 men and held out for a 0-0 or still hit us on the break is wishful thinking. We would have still done the tippy tappy thing up against a 10 man brick wall.

[Marc Overmars]

It seems like the normal reaction of angry fans to a bitter defeat .
If we lost the game it is not because of Wenger or Ozil but some refereeing mistakes and naiveté from some of our players :
Foul on Sanchez was a straight red card .
Fabregas handball was a penalty and a yellow.
Eden Hasard run should have been dealt with earlier . Make a foul to prevent danger and accept a yellow card is better than letting a player dance in your area . To get yellow card in a dangerous position is more than stupid.
Chambers is the only one who sacrifice himself for the team and get yellow cards to prevent dangerous situation . And he is the youngest of all. And a newcomer.

Lost the game because of refereeing mistakes! :lol:

We have a team full of experience now, if they are still naive then it is down to the manager who displays little or no match savvy himself.

[BOBN]

It was in his hands yesterday. Wenger had the chance for ultimate redemption. Past woes forgotten. Divides amoung fans shattered. All looking towards the future.

All he had to do was punch that greaseball in the face and put blood in his mouth.

But he didnt.

He'll never change.

Wenger out

[selassie]

It seems like the normal reaction of angry fans to a bitter defeat .
If we lost the game it is not because of Wenger or Ozil but some refereeing mistakes and naiveté from some of our players :
Foul on Sanchez was a straight red card .
Fabregas handball was a penalty and a yellow.
Eden Hasard run should have been dealt with earlier . Make a foul to prevent danger and accept a yellow card is better than letting a player dance in your area . To get yellow card in a dangerous position is more than stupid.
Chambers is the only one who sacrifice himself for the team and get yellow cards to prevent dangerous situation . And he is the youngest of all. And a newcomer.

The ref was dodgy but he wasnt pro Chelsea, he made bad calls for both teams.

Yesterdays loss was no surprise, we were not unlucky, we were just beaten by a better team. Maureen sets out his team/gameplan the same everytime he faces us, same old from us, passive possession dominance, 1 shot on target.

[Dein-machine]

Chavs have been doing it to us for years. Running at our defenders, lumping the ball over the top and letting a powerful striker barge it into the net. Now we have a player who could have done that, but we religiously keep the ball on the deck and play it short. Tidy little patterns until we lose the ball on the 93rd pass, never shoot, always look for the next pass, move it left, move it right, trying to drag a tightly disciplined defence around that simply refuses to be dragged around. We probably could have played another 90 minutes of pointless tippy tappy and not had a strike on goal. When Wenger sees a stats like that, no shots on target, it will only encourage him to work harder on the 93rd pass.

And as for running at defenders, it's Ozil and Cazorla who should be doing that, not Jack. So he plays Jack as the focal point through the middle to guarantee another route to losing the ball. Play those fullbacks high so we are desperately exposed when pass #93 goes astray - recipe for disaster, the same half baked lasagne week in, week out. We usually get away with it against crappy teams, although this season even that's not happening. Against the big teams they just laugh at our naivety and tuck in for the 3 points.

How many times did we see Ivanovic and Azpilicueta charging up the pitch yesterday? How many times did Terry bomb through the middle like Kos was doing? Merts was the only defender who was disciplined - and he's the one getting most of the stick from the media and fans :doh: He's the grown-up in our defence and he needs to have more responsibility. Instead it's Arteta who is the captain - a guy being played out of position every match, a midget asked to be a destroyer. Ludicrous.

What about the subs? When the gameplan is yielding nothing what does Wenger do? He takes off the hardest runners, the guys keeping things together despite the awful tactics. Then he puts another victim into the same system, like for like. The only time he changes things for real is when injuries force us or he's desperately rolling the dice after the game is lost. What was the Podolski sub about yesterday, when we had already lost? Ridiculous. Why the hell bring Cazorla off? It beggars belief. Was he injured? That would be the only possible excuse.

Where's Walcott going to fit into this? More tippy tappy and backward play on the right wing? Or sprinting into space beyond the defender from balls played by our skilful but abused midfield? I think we know the answer.

We are relying on individual moments of excellence to pull our arses out of the tactical fire. Even with all our possession, possession the chavs were happy to concede yesterday, it all breaks down in the final third unless 2 or 3 individuals execute some training ground stunt with the required absolute precision. Other teams just find the space and run. The have other runners pulling defenders. They get in behind and lump the cross in. They play it ugly if it needs to be ugly. When was our last pub scramble in an opposition box where we eventually lashed the ball home? We don't do that, it's beneath us.

We have excellent players and a manager who doesn't have the foggiest how to use them. Or he probably does but for some reason thinks there's an even better way. A way that hasn't worked for years but you know, any day now it will work. Just keep doing the same thing over and over again and eventually it will work - or you will be carted away in a straitjacket, one or the other.

Agree with most of that apart from Merts. The reason why he doesn't run with the ball is because he can't. He is so uncomfortable on the ball & doesn't have the pace to run anywhere. The premiership is too quick for him now, the 2nd goal yesterday showed how he didn't even bother running for a ball over his head because its hopeless. You can't give up playing for Germany because you've "had your day" & expect to play for Arsenal - Most of the games he would play for Germany are far easier than Premier league games.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Arsenal have won none of their last 15 Premier League meetings against Chelsea, Man Utd or Man City (W0 D7 L8).

Arsene Moyes.

[Dein-machine]

During another one of Wengers embarrassing match interviews, when he blames Chelsea's money for them being able to buy Hazard & Costa ( both players were available for us to buy before the Chavs, for money that wouldn't have broken the bank ), he at least alluded to the fact that quality wins you games. Is the penny finally dropping with him. But unlike a few other gooners I was debating with yesterday at the game, you can't simply put Hazard & Costa in our team & think we will win these games. Against Chelsea, Hazard wouldn't have been allowed to run past a non existent defensive midfield & then into our box. Look at Merts when Kos brings him down, more in a right back role. You won't get a situation at Chelsea where the CB's are not covering each other.
The 2nd goal - when Costa is THE ONLY threat & we know that Fabregas is the quarter back, how did Kos & Merts allow themselves to get in a situation where a simple ball over the top can let him in. Merts ( because of lack of pace ) should have been up Costa's arse to either win the ball in the air or stop him easily turning, Kos should drop off 10 yards behind every time he saw the ball go near Fabregas in a sweeper role. These things are school boy errors that our manager seems to have no idea how to change.
Everyone says Hazard, Fabregas & Costa are the difference but I would suggest our defensive frailties are the bigger difference.

[sibreen]

I don't mind the losing so much, but there used to be a time when I thought we could score against anyone. Even when we were getting bashed, we would bag a couple of goals. Or hit the post ten times (what was that team in the CL a few years back that we annihilated and hit the post/bar multiple times and it still ended up 0-0?) or almost score with scintillating attacking play. Now, not so much.

The losing is sufferable, but I'd like the excitement back.

[BOBN]

The myth of Wilshere is now over. Totally useless. That moment where he miscontrolled at the edge of the box was the final straw. If he cant even do that, bearing in mind all his other flaws, then whats the point?

Hes just not that talented at football.

Toss up between him and Cleverly as to whos the better player.

[Alpha]

Even I gave up blaming the ref. It's true, certain red - but then again Kos could have gone too. And Welbeck. And Flamini certainly should have got a red for that deliberate elbow. Don't think we can complain about the red too much other than to say it happened first so could have given us an advantage. But to think the chavs couldn't have pulled together 10 men and held out for a 0-0 or still hit us on the break is wishful thinking. We would have still done the tippy tappy thing up against a 10 man brick wall.
Flamini and Wellbeck actions were frustrations to referee's attitude . They certainly deserved red cards . But before that we should have had a penalty and Cahill , Oscar and Ivanovic should have been off pitch long ago .

[Alpha]

The ref was dodgy but he wasnt pro Chelsea, he made bad calls for both teams.

Yesterdays loss was no surprise, we were not unlucky, we were just beaten by a better team. Maureen sets out his team/gameplan the same everytime he faces us, same old from us, passive possession dominance, 1 shot on target.


I agree Chelsea was the better team . But knowing that conceding the first goal in a big game is a blow, a refereeing mistake which prevent you from coming back to a game is a confidence killer for the players .
Had the referee been a bit fair we could have got at least a draw .

[Alpha]

Lost the game because of refereeing mistakes! :lol:

We have a team full of experience now, if they are still naive then it is down to the manager who displays little or no match savvy himself.

Any referee action can have a big impact on a game .
Imagine if he didn't give Chelsea their deserved penalty on Hasard and he mistook it for a simulation and gave hasard a yellow card instead . Do you think Chelsea attitude and confidence would have been the same ? I doubt it very much .

[selassie]

I agree Chelsea was the better team . But knowing that conceding the first goal in a big game is a blow, a refereeing mistake which prevent you from coming back to a game is a confidence killer for the players .
Had the referee been a bit fair we could have got at least a draw .

Alpha, Maybe we saw different things yesterday but as already pointed out by NQ we were lucky to have 11 men on the field after Kos gave away the penalty, it was actually a red card offence as he was the last man standing.

We only had 1 shot on target all game, I am not sure how the referee's performance defined that but each to their own I suppose.

My frustration stems from the Summer, we didn't do the business we needed to do and it's clearly evident, not only in the big games but also in many other games this season. The money was there, Wenger didn't buy what we needed....AGAIN.

Basically nothing has changed, I see us going into this season with exactly the same flaws but hoping for a different outcome, in fact I would go as far as to say we have more flaws this season as Wenger has changed the formation of the team and to date we look a weaker side than we did last season.

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzQp0poCIAAvqes.png

Fuck off Mesut

[Dein-machine]

Before Benny from Crossroads scored their 2nd yesterday, the 3 previous goals conceded were due to total lack of midfield cover in front of the centre backs - 2 resulting in pens with 1 on 1's against our last defender or keeper.
This is down to us not having a defensive midfielder. If Wenger plays Flamini 1 more time it should result in gross misconduct charges. Not buying a proper DM over past few years shows us all we need to know about Wengers tactical ability.

[Alpha]

Alpha, Maybe we saw different things yesterday but as already pointed out by NQ we were lucky to have 11 men on the field after Kos gave away the penalty, it was actually a red card offence as he was the last man standing.

We only had 1 shot on target all game, I am not sure how the referee's performance defined that but each to their own I suppose.

My frustration stems from the Summer, we didn't do the business we needed to do and it's clearly evident, not only in the big games but also in many other games this season. The money was there, Wenger didn't buy what we needed....AGAIN.

Basically nothing has changed, I see us going into this season with exactly the same flaws but hoping for a different outcome, in fact I would go as far as to say we have more flaws this season as Wenger has changed the formation of the team and to date we look a weaker side than we did last season.

Selassie , my friend , we saw the same things but we express differently .I agree with everything you are saying but before their penalty Cahill should have seen a red card . That would have had a different outcome .
In a big game , any little detail counts and can change anything .
Soon after their penalty , Cazorla produced a perfect pass to Wilshere for an equaliser but a heavy touch let him down . Imagine if he could have made something better ....
We are all frustrated but the biggest mistake if refusing to buy a proper DM . We are paying for that . Our attacking players can not do their job properly because we don't have a solid platform of defense .

[Dein-machine]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzQp0poCIAAvqes.png

Fuck off Mesut

Just hugging a manager he respects tbf - probably feels like he'd wished he joined Chelsea, like Fabregas. Apart from money, I don't really understand how any top player wanting success would sign for us with Wenger in charge.

[Niall_Quinn]

Flamini and Wellbeck actions were frustrations to referee's attitude . They certainly deserved red cards . But before that we should have had a penalty and Cahill , Oscar and Ivanovic should have been off pitch long ago .

Don't disagree. The ref was appalling. But his incompetence was impartial, he was just clueless not biased. Certainly if Cahill had been sent off it would have affected the game. But we shouldn't be relying on a red card to get results, we have the players to compete with anyone 11 vs 11. But we don't have the manager to do that unfortunately. My fear, even if Cahill rightly got his marching orders, is we'd still have lost. The team selection was stupid, the formation was stupid and the tactics were stupid. That was the real problem.

[selassie]

Selassie , my friend , we saw the same things but we express differently .I agree with everything you are saying but before their penalty Cahill should have seen a red card . That would have had a different outcome .
In a big game , any little detail counts and can change anything .
Soon after their penalty , Cazorla produced a perfect pass to Wilshere for an equaliser but a heavy touch let him down . Imagine if he could have made something better ....
We are all frustrated but the biggest mistake if refusing to buy a proper DM . We are paying for that . Our attacking players can not do their job properly because we don't have a solid platform of defense .

Fair play.

I think the general consensus is we have a manager that doesn't know how to get the best out of this team and doesn't appear to know how to improve it.

The fact that he hasn't/didn't buy a DM or even an elite striker pretty much tells me all I need to know. I am done with him.

I generally believe things would be a lot better with someone a bit more tactically astute in charge of the current squad.

[Alpha]

Don't disagree. The ref was appalling. But his incompetence was impartial, he was just clueless not biased. Certainly if Cahill had been sent off it would have affected the game. But we shouldn't be relying on a red card to get results, we have the players to compete with anyone 11 vs 11. But we don't have the manager to do that unfortunately. My fear, even if Cahill rightly got his marching orders, is we'd still have lost. The team selection was stupid, the formation was stupid and the tactics were stupid. That was the real problem.
True we shouldn't be counting on referee 's charity to win a game . We should have been able to compete 11 vs 11 against any team . But sadly we are not at that level anymore .
Any refereeing mistake against us can be costly .

[Bumble]

We are only in the 3rd month of the season and have Wenger for another two more years. Things aren't going to get any better. He isn't going to leave and he wont be sacked unless we finish 7th or something.

We will still finish top 4 as I just cant see Liverpool and United both finishing above us. Although if we lose to Liverpool I might change that opinion.

[Özim]

Everyone knew we'd lose this game, if was predictable, the reason it's predictable is we have a manager who is tactically not good enough and doesn't ever really address problem areas in the team.

The guy just never learns, he never adapts or sets the team up based on the opposition, therefore we always fail to win, it's not coincidence anymore.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

As per usual, another one in what seems an unabated string of losses against quality teams. One common denominator in all this.

Glad to see some of his disciples have little bit taken off their blinkers, albeit reluctantly.

Wenger Out!

[Munchies]

Wenger Out!

:bow:

[Marc Overmars]

Any referee action can have a big impact on a game .
Imagine if he didn't give Chelsea their deserved penalty on Hasard and he mistook it for a simulation and gave hasard a yellow card instead . Do you think Chelsea attitude and confidence would have been the same ? I doubt it very much .

Considering they were playing Arsenal, I'm sure their confidence would have remained the same.

I don't understand the point you are trying to illustrate though, imagine this, imagine that etc. Just seems like an excuse really to avoid holding the manager and team to account.

[Power n Glory]

Considering they were playing Arsenal, I'm sure their confidence would have remained the same.

I don't understand the point you are trying to illustrate though, imagine this, imagine that etc. Just seems like an excuse really to avoid holding the manager and team to account.

Indeed. After hammering us last season and considering their record at Stamford Bridge and Jose's record against Arsene, one penalty decision wouldn't have dented their confidence. It was a predictable game. We were lucky to finish with 11 men and the same applies for them.

[Globalgunner]

We haven't won any of 15 games against our top rivals. It can't be the referee in every case. I would wager we won't beat either Chelsea, City or even United this season. Only Pool don't always expect to beat us. We start each season 12 points behind those 3. We rely on the Sunderland s of this world to help us beat them to reduce our points deficit.
Wenger Out!

[AKBapologist]

I thought our tactics and organisation where OK yesterday. Problem was a few players just didn't perform, theres did. The first goal really killed the game, after that we where just chasing. Ozil was a disgrace, Welbeck didn't spend enough time in the box and we didn't create a shot on goal. We've been struggling to score for years now, it's only just coming to roost this season.

[Alpha]

Considering they were playing Arsenal, I'm sure their confidence would have remained the same.

I don't understand the point you are trying to illustrate though, imagine this, imagine that etc. Just seems like an excuse really to avoid holding the manager and team to account.

Well ,every time things don't go your way you need an excuse for that .The referee shouldn't has allowed us an excuse . He should have sent Cahill off and awarded us a penalty on Fabregas handball and saw what would have been our next excuse .
Had we won the game because of Cahill red card you could still have said it was not a proper win .It is a no win situation really .

[Letters]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMO_pgZxkXc

:haha:

[LDG]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMO_pgZxkXc

:haha:


:haha: :haha:

[fakeyank]

Going by the comments here, 9 out of 10 people are of the opinion that Wenger needs to go. So why is there a difference between whats being said here and what the fans at the stadium say? Why is saying "Wenger Out" considered blasphemy at the stadium? Even when we lost 3-1 to Villa last season, the atmosphere was all against the board/Kroenke... very few were against Wenger.

Are people actually enjoying the football we play under Wenger? Is it that people think we will go back to our glory days under Wenger? I really do not understand Arsenal fans... surely it must hurt going into EVERY big game thinking we have a 1% chance to get a result. Paying the highest prices in world football to have only a realistic expectation of 4th is ridiculous!

I cannot see any reasonable argument for sticking with AW! Please do not bother saying "Who else"... thats like saying you wont leave your spouse even though she is cheating, because you are not sure you can find someone who can cook mashed potatoes as good as her!

[Munchies]

Going by the comments here, 9 out of 10 people are of the opinion that Wenger needs to go. So why is there a difference between whats being said here and what the fans at the stadium say? Why is saying "Wenger Out" considered blasphemy at the stadium? Even when we lost 3-1 to Villa last season, the atmosphere was all against the board/Kroenke... very few were against Wenger.

Are people actually enjoying the football we play under Wenger? Is it that people think we will go back to our glory days under Wenger? I really do not understand Arsenal fans... surely it must hurt going into EVERY big game thinking we have a 1% chance to get a result. Paying the highest prices in world football to have only a realistic expectation of 4th is ridiculous!

I cannot see any reasonable argument for sticking with AW! Please do not bother saying "Who else"... thats like saying you wont leave your spouse even though she is cheating, because you are not sure you can find someone who can cook mashed potatoes as good as her!

:gp:

[Letters]

Please do not bother saying "Who else"... thats like saying you wont leave your spouse even though she is cheating, because you are not sure you can find someone who can cook mashed potatoes as good as her!
It is pretty much nothing like that.

[torontogooner]

I hate Mourinho, but, I loved the way he left his seat and headed down the tunnel. He fucked Wenger in his French nostril by dismissively leaving at the final whistle.

If Wenger had any bottle he would have got up early and postured towards Mourinho to shake his hand.

Wenger OUT!

[Power n Glory]

It is pretty much nothing like that.

But it's close and you get the idea. Fear of the unknown is the reason why some want him to stay even though they know we certainly won't progress under him.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's not fear of the unknown, it's fear of the stupidity of the mob. People screaming Wenger out and abusing the guy are the ones who rightly get punched in the gob when they pipe up. Long may that continue. I don't think I've seen anyone here who wants Wenger to stay forever, I think virtually everyone has suggested he's struggling tactically and we'd be better off in terms of on-field results with a more clued up coach. But there's more to the job than that when it comes to Wenger's role, stuff that has developed over time and beyond the scope you will see in any other club. Wenger needs to be calmly eased out and replaced with the right man and in the right manner. It could have happened last year but who would really begrudge him the chance to use some of the millions he's banked for the club? If that means we have another 2-3 seasons hovering there or thereabouts while the club goes from strength to strength in preparation for the next guy then what's the big deal? It's not complacency or a lack of ambition, it's having an eye on a sustainable future at the top. We're still on course to do that. I doubt anyone believes the glory days will return under Wenger, but his final role might well be to leave the club in the right shape for his successor to come in and build a dynasty - if that's what we want, as opposed to a one-off, Liverpool style challenge.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

But it's close and you get the idea. Fear of the unknown is the reason why some want him to stay even though they know we certainly won't progress under him.

It is nothing like that, when you go out of a relationship you go back to being single. We have to have a replacement for Wenger, the guy is entrenched in every area of the club rightly or wrongly (wrongly of course) and that's why the person who comes in needs to be someone who we can guarantee is capable of taking us forward or we are changing for changes sake.

The reason we haven't had the bad atmosphere in the crowds is because more often than not we tend to win games at the Emirates. The last time it turned sour was the home Game against Swansea. People don't pay 45 quid a ticket to boo or chant "Wenger out" because unless the team is being ridiculously outplayed its kind of counter productive.

Logically there is no reason why the board would sack Wenger so whatever we think of him it's wishful thinking

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's not fear of the unknown, it's fear of the stupidity of the mob. People screaming Wenger out and abusing the guy are the ones who rightly get punched in the gob when they pipe up. Long may that continue. I don't think I've seen anyone here who wants Wenger to stay forever, I think virtually everyone has suggested he's struggling tactically and we'd be better off in terms of on-field results with a more clued up coach. But there's more to the job than that when it comes to Wenger's role, stuff that has developed over time and beyond the scope you will see in any other club. Wenger needs to be calmly eased out and replaced with the right man and in the right manner. It could have happened last year but who would really begrudge him the chance to use some of the millions he's banked for the club? If that means we have another 2-3 seasons hovering there or thereabouts while the club goes from strength to strength in preparation for the next guy then what's the big deal? It's not complacency or a lack of ambition, it's having an eye on a sustainable future at the top. We're still on course to do that. I doubt anyone believes the glory days will return under Wenger, but his final role might well be to leave the club in the right shape for his successor to come in and build a dynasty - if that's what we want, as opposed to a one-off, Liverpool style challenge.

I totally agree

[LDG]

It's not fear of the unknown, it's fear of the stupidity of the mob. People screaming Wenger out and abusing the guy are the ones who rightly get punched in the gob when they pipe up. Long may that continue. I don't think I've seen anyone here who wants Wenger to stay forever, I think virtually everyone has suggested he's struggling tactically and we'd be better off in terms of on-field results with a more clued up coach. But there's more to the job than that when it comes to Wenger's role, stuff that has developed over time and beyond the scope you will see in any other club. Wenger needs to be calmly eased out and replaced with the right man and in the right manner. It could have happened last year but who would really begrudge him the chance to use some of the millions he's banked for the club? If that means we have another 2-3 seasons hovering there or thereabouts while the club goes from strength to strength in preparation for the next guy then what's the big deal? It's not complacency or a lack of ambition, it's having an eye on a sustainable future at the top. We're still on course to do that. I doubt anyone believes the glory days will return under Wenger, but his final role might well be to leave the club in the right shape for his successor to come in and build a dynasty - if that's what we want, as opposed to a one-off, Liverpool style challenge.


Top post.

[Power n Glory]

It is nothing like that, when you go out of a relationship you go back to being single. We have to have a replacement for Wenger, the guy is entrenched in every area of the club rightly or wrongly (wrongly of course) and that's why the person who comes in needs to be someone who we can guarantee is capable of taking us forward or we are changing for changes sake.

The reason we haven't had the bad atmosphere in the crowds is because more often than not we tend to win games at the Emirates. The last time it turned sour was the home Game against Swansea. People don't pay 45 quid a ticket to boo or chant "Wenger out" because unless the team is being ridiculously outplayed its kind of counter productive.

Logically there is no reason why the board would sack Wenger so whatever we think of him it's wishful thinking

There are no guarantees that the next guy will take us forward. It's impossible to determine. So what's our next move if the board can't guarantee success after Wenger?

[Globalgunner]

Nobody can guarantee success. The point is, is what we are seeing currently under Wenger the definition of success?. Like someone else posted above. It is the mere illusion of competing that makes some wish to keep him, but deep down we all know we are really competing with the Spuds, Everton, a befuddled United and emasculated Liverpool. If that is enough to keep you happy, then hold on to it. Every August we hear how we are going for the top honours, but here now in October we are already out of 3 of them. The same as always, not because we don't have the resources, but we are handicapped by a delusonist at our helm of affairs. You will have to forgive those of us who belive we can do better and are willing to take the risk to find out if we can.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

There are no guarantees that the next guy will take us forward. It's impossible to determine. So what's our next move if the board can't guarantee success after Wenger?

guarantee is capable of taking us forward were my words....which means instead of sacking Wenger and hastily appointing someone else, the club doing their homework and making sure that potential successors are scouted, sounded out etc and that the correct coaching infrastructure is in place around them to take over from Wenger.
No-one is in any doubt about Wenger being able to get a second wind and suddenly take us forward into a new era of winning big trophies, he's yesterday's man in that respect but as NQ abely says in his post we have that stability under Wenger currently where the club will be in good hand's for a better/younger man to push us forward when he steps down. I wish that day would come sooner than 2017, but i don't want it to happen slap bang in the middle of season out of fan petulance either.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Well ,every time things don't go your way you need an excuse for that .The referee shouldn't has allowed us an excuse . He should have sent Cahill off and awarded us a penalty on Fabregas handball and saw what would have been our next excuse .
Had we won the game because of Cahill red card you could still have said it was not a proper win .It is a no win situation really .
If that pun was intended, you're a genius.

[Power n Glory]

If that pun was intended, you're a genius.

:lol:

[1_nilto the arsenal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMO_pgZxkXc

:haha: Thats just cheered me up.

[Power n Glory]

guarantee is capable of taking us forward were my words....which means instead of sacking Wenger and hastily appointing someone else, the club doing their homework and making sure that potential successors are scouted, sounded out etc and that the correct coaching infrastructure is in place around them to take over from Wenger.
No-one is in any doubt about Wenger being able to get a second wind and suddenly take us forward into a new era of winning big trophies, he's yesterday's man in that respect but as NQ abely says in his post we have that stability under Wenger currently where the club will be in good hand's for a better/younger man to push us forward when he steps down. I wish that day would come sooner than 2017, but i don't want it to happen slap bang in the middle of season out of fan petulance either.

Now who said he wanted him sacked right away without a plan in place? We've had this discussion before and nobody is suggesting he goes tomorrow without the board doing their proper research.

[Globalgunner]

Now who said he wanted him sacked right away without a plan in place? We've had this discussion before and nobody is suggesting he goes tomorrow without the board doing their proper research.
Thanks, The doomongers want you to believe that Wenger is so Intrinsic to our existence that any sudden sacking would inevitably lead to our disintegration. We let Bruce Rioch go midseason and appointed some nobody who took us to 3rd and won the double the next season. We have a chief executive now and Bould knows the players as well as Wenger. I dare say, we would finish 4th

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Thanks, The doomongers want you to believe that Wenger is so Intrinsic to our existence that any sudden sacking would inevitably lead to our disintegration. We let Bruce Rioch go midseason and appointed some nobody who took us to 3rd and won the double the next season. We have a chief executive now and Bould knows the players as well as Wenger. I dare say, we would finish 4th

Bruce Rioch wasn't sacked mid season, he went at the end of the 1995-96 campaign.....Wenger didnt join until October because he had promised to see out the season with Nagoya Grampus Eight and for the beginning of the 1996-1997 season we had Pat Rice and Stuart Houston caretaking.

And actually even then the whole thing was a bit of a headless chicken because it was a battle of wills between Dein who had Wanted Wenger when Graham left and the board who wanted a big name to appease the fans in light of getting rid of Rioch for a perceived lack of ambition.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Now who said he wanted him sacked right away without a plan in place? We've had this discussion before and nobody is suggesting he goes tomorrow without the board doing their proper research.

I don't know i think your speaking for yourself, the poster below you seems to suggest sack Wenger and let the chips fall where they may.

The right time was at the end of last season to encourage Wenger to step aside and go out on a high after the FA Cup, to be honest i think even Wenger himself would have been ammenable to that but at that time the club had no plan in place to replace him which is in itself worrying (and doesn't fill you with the highest confidence that they'd do the best job in bringing in a replacement if he were to go suddenly as opposed to the end of a campaign)

[Xhaka Can’t]

Bruce Rioch was sacked just before the 96/97 season.

But that is back in another age so irrelevant to today.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

i'm not the one who first mentioned him, the transistion between him and Wenger though is not a good example of efficacious planning by the Arsenal board.

I'd like to think that what appears to be Gazidis bringing in Jonker and Forsythe is part of a strategy of post-Wenger planning.

My feelings are still very much that Bould is being groomed to be the manager, and that he will preside over a much larger coaching team and won't have the same almost unquestioned authority that Wenger has over club affairs.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Not even sure what else to say....though there were those who thought we would win out of sheer odds!

Fabregas didn't even have to play THAT good to make the difference,stand out and get man of the match. We actually had a debate on this board about whether or not Costa was good enough for Arsenal!

If he doesn't score another goal all season you'd still be hard pressed to write him off as a purchase completely.

[Power n Glory]

I don't know i think your speaking for yourself, the poster below you seems to suggest sack Wenger and let the chips fall where they may.

The right time was at the end of last season to encourage Wenger to step aside and go out on a high after the FA Cup, to be honest i think even Wenger himself would have been ammenable to that but at that time the club had no plan in place to replace him which is in itself worrying (and doesn't fill you with the highest confidence that they'd do the best job in bringing in a replacement if he were to go suddenly as opposed to the end of a campaign)

Prior to that one post, nobody was suggesting that. Global can speak for himself, but it sounds to
Me as if he's saying we have an infrastructure already in place with Ivan and Bould there. We couldn't just fall apart without Wenger and that was the partly why we built the stadium. We were looking beyond Wenger when planning. We could have one or two rough seasons during the transition but we shouldn't crumble.

Saying that, I hope we have people at Board level thinking long term. They must be if Stan wants to continue picking up a cheque from the money generated. I can't imagine them sacking Wenger without knowing they have the right candidate coming in to replace him.

[AFC Leveller]

We lost because of Wenger, simple as.

Chelsea have shown that with enough planing and hard work, this Arsenal team can be beaten in different ways and their last two victories prove that.

I really dont know where to start but the main things we can take from Sunday are that Ozil is AW's bum chum and wont be taken off unless injured of sent off, Wenger has no clue about how to beat a proper side and the 11 that started the game would have tested Chelsea a lot more had Wenger not been in charge. Give those 11 that started the game to a Martinez, Koeman, even Allardyce and i guarentee they would have made a game of it. However, the manager we have is holding us back and continues to cost us big games and the players probably know that by now. Mourinho's record over Arsenal in 12 games reads won 7 drawn 5 and this is enough proof that the clown we have is toast and probably easier to beat then the other 18 clubs.

I thought Flamini was a lot better than recently and was in their faces and desrupted their game and our best player on the day was probably Cazorla who i thought had his best game for us in a long time. He created a lot of space for himself and didnt surrender posession usual when under pressure. To be take off must have felt like crap and i wouldnt blame him for kicking up a fuss, he was growing into the game and had our only two shots (allbeit of target) ad well as creating most of our half chances. jack wasnt too bad either and was the only one prepared to drive at their back 4.

Ozil was at his most frustrating and the way he was brushed off the ball was simply unacceptable. yes he started of on the left (WTF was that about anyway? and where was the OX after his display against Gala?) but he has no excuses and really should have come at HT. Howeverm the mug we have in charge saw differently and kept him on for the entire game and took off our most threatning players in Jack, Santi and Sanchez. just look at Chelsea's number 10, oscar, he was blocking shots, winning the bal back and thorwing his body on the line like a CB. Wenger for me is to blame for Ozil's lack of effort and weakness on the ball and its just anoher reason why this man simply has to go.

Although we were beaten with ease and by a better team, i thought the way Chelsea kept fouling and fouling and breaking up our counter attacks while going unounsihed by the ref was bordering on corrupt. Oscar commited 4 fouls before being booked in the 84th minute FFS!

[Power n Glory]

Not even sure what else to say....though there were those who thought we would win out of sheer odds!

Fabregas didn't even have to play THAT good to make the difference,stand out and get man of the match. We actually had a debate on this board about whether or not Costa was good enough for Arsenal!

If he doesn't score another goal all season you'd still be hard pressed to write him off as a purchase completely.

Call me crazy, but I'm still not wowed by Diego Costa. His goal record is impressive and he's proven he's not just having a run of good form. I was wrong about that. But I still don't see him producing that type of form for Arsenal. Chelsea and Atletico are more direct teams and I still think he'd have to adjust more to the tippy tappy crap we play. I'm thinking of his performances for Spain where he's struggled a bit.

He reminds me of Drogba and he's perfect for Chelsea. The goal he scored against us are the type of goals we just don't score. We wouldn't have played it long and we don't have Cesc. Our playmakers are really struggling to create opportunities at the moment. But saying that, I'd still take him over anything else we have in our team. But he wouldn't be high up on my list if we had a choice of strikers like we had in past transfer windows. I'd prefer a more Aguero type than a Dzeko type player if that makes sense.

[Maestro]

i'm not the one who first mentioned him, the transistion between him and Wenger though is not a good example of efficacious planning by the Arsenal board.

I'd like to think that what appears to be Gazidis bringing in Jonker and Forsythe is part of a strategy of post-Wenger planning.

My feelings are still very much that Bould is being groomed to be the manager, and that he will preside over a much larger coaching team and won't have the same almost unquestioned authority that Wenger has over club affairs.

Regards your reference to Bould, I am actually coming round to that line of thinking. As much as he may not be the marquee manager some would like, right now I don't think I would mind especially if all he had to do was focus on the team and it's performance on the pitch ....with the right support structure around him.

Now I have no proof/evidence that he would be the right man, and he has no track record at the top level of the game ..winning titles etc, but I think he understands the requirements in this league, loves the club and wouldn't take shit from anyone. Hardly the qualification credentials you need but I don't know, maybe I'm just desperate to see Wenger step aside.

[Power n Glory]

We need to Dein to return to Arsenal. I'd feel more comfortable with the transition if he was still on board. I don't see why not since the majority of the old Board members are gone. But I guess that murky business with Usmanov rules him out.

[AFC Leveller]

Koscielny has conceded th most pels since 2010 (6).

clumsy.

[Alpha]

We didn't lose the game because of Wenger as many tend to suggest . The reasons are simple:
1) Chelsea is not an easy team to beat at home.
2) The referee did not give us advantage to certain deserved situations
3) we did not capitalise on the few chances we created
4) we did not deal well defensively with the occasions which led to Chelsea goals .
None of these are Wenger mistakes . He just took full responsibility as a manager.

[Dein-machine]

We didn't lose the game because of Wenger as many tend to suggest . The reasons are simple:
1) Chelsea is not an easy team to beat at home.
2) The referee did not give us advantage to certain deserved situations
3) we did not capitalise on the few chances we created
4) we did not deal well defensively with the occasions which led to Chelsea goals .
None of these are Wenger mistakes . He just took full responsibility as a manager.

oh dear - just as the post was getting sensibly debated - can someone call for the men in the white coats please

[Globalgunner]

We didn't lose the game because of Wenger as many tend to suggest . The reasons are simple:
1) Chelsea is not an easy team to beat at home.
2) The referee did not give us advantage to certain deserved situations
3) we did not capitalise on the few chances we created
4) we did not deal well defensively with the occasions which led to Chelsea goals .
None of these are Wenger mistakes . He just took full responsibility as a manager.

I guess this must have been the case in every single one of the humiliations we have received from the other top teams. Wumger has you well indoctrinated. Either that or you are on a senseless wind up. We didn't put a single shot on target and could have had at least 1 or 2 players sent off just like Chelsea. We lost but did well to keep it to just 2 goals

[selassie]

Koscielny has conceded th most pels since 2010 (6).

clumsy.

I think Kos is a decent enough player but he gets shown up in the big games. Merts does too.

TBF they are the least of our problems right now.

[Niall_Quinn]

Guys, he has a different opinion. That's allowed isn't it? Anyway, what he's saying is true:

1) Hardly anyone has managed it. They have an insane record at home.
2) Ref was shit, not sending off Cahill was an absolute scandal and that could have changed the game. But fair enough, there's the other side of the coin with idiots like Flamini elbowing people in the face. He's lucky, nobody is even mentioning it but that was the second most obvious red of the day.
3) We certainly didn't capitalise, we were crap in the final third. But we did put them under pressure a few times and with a bit more composure/ care we could have grabbed a goal. Our inability to do that let the chavs sit on their lead, something they excel at (the boring cunts).
4) True again. Letting Hazard run through the midfield and into the box is schoolboy error stuff. Both CBs being caught out by a simple lob over the top, pretty dumb again.

The bit I don't agree with is it not (at least partly) being Wenger's fault. He set us up to fail and then compounded his error by persisting with a plan that simply wasn't working and never looked like working. He played into the chav's hands as usual. Then he made those shitty and pointless subs. He's badly out of touch in these big games as the record demonstrates. It can't be argued against. The record is appalling and speaks for itself.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

I think Kos is a decent enough player but he gets shown up in the big games. Merts does too.

TBF they are the least of our problems right now.

Barcelona at home disagrees with that though.

I don't blame Kos for the penalty too much. The challenge was very instinctive and not one of his previous moronic challenges where's he had time to weigh up the options (see Villa at home last year). The majority of blame lies with Flamini and Santi (I believe?) for letting Hazard easily skip pass them at that pace and manage a run on Kos in the box. Bundle him over and take the FK but you don't let a player with the skill of Hazard having a free run on our CB's in the area.

Also. Szechesny got done very easily for the penalty itself. When was the last time he saved a penalty or won us a game the same way De Gea did for United over the weekend?

The second goal on the other hand ....... that was one which should have been handled. No way should our CB's be allowing a long ball over the top to result in a goal. Though mind you the deliverer was Cesc and the receipant was Costa, two world class players and difficult for any defence to deal with. All in all though, I thought our defence played alright, better than most games this season and wasn't the reason why we lost that match.

[Alpha]

I guess this must have been the case in every single one of the humiliations we have received from the other top teams. Wumger has you well indoctrinated. Either that or you are on a senseless wind up. We didn't put a single shot on target and could have had at least 1 or 2 players sent off just like Chelsea. We lost but did well to keep it to just 2 goals

There is nothing about Wenger indoctrination as your emotions make you think . We are all gutted for the defeat as fans .Wenger put out his best team . The players did not perform as expected . Simple as that . We don't have the players health records . We don't know who are about to burn out and who are at risks of injury .
You can say he should have started this or that player . He should have put this player at this position.But we don't know what is behind closed doors . Not playing Ozil in the middle is just a myth . He has the freedom to operate everywhere . Even when he plays in the "middle" he can still go in the wings .
Now you tell me if you were the manager what you could have done .

[Harland]

Barcelona at home disagrees with that though.

I don't blame Kos for the penalty too much. The challenge was very instinctive and not one of his previous moronic challenges where's he had time to weigh up the options (see Villa at home last year). The majority of blame lies with Flamini and Santi (I believe?) for letting Hazard easily skip pass them at that pace and manage a run on Kos in the box. Bundle him over and take the FK but you don't let a player with the skill of Hazard having a free run on our CB's in the area.

Also. Szechesny got done very easily for the penalty itself. When was the last time he saved a penalty or won us a game the same way De Gea did for United over the weekend?

The second goal on the other hand ....... that was one which should have been handled. No way should our CB's be allowing a long ball over the top to result in a goal. Though mind you the deliverer was Cesc and the receipant was Costa, two world class players and difficult for any defence to deal with. All in all though, I thought our defence played alright, better than most games this season and wasn't the reason why we lost that match.

Not sure how harsh we can be of Scz for the penalty, it was very well taken and set up to completely deceive the keeper. His save against Dzeko vs Man C a few weeks back kept us with a point, but his kicking and decision making ability for distribution has been very poor indeed.

[Alpha]

Guys, he has a different opinion. That's allowed isn't it? Anyway, what he's saying is true:

1) Hardly anyone has managed it. They have an insane record at home.
2) Ref was shit, not sending off Cahill was an absolute scandal and that could have changed the game. But fair enough, there's the other side of the coin with idiots like Flamini elbowing people in the face. He's lucky, nobody is even mentioning it but that was the second most obvious red of the day.
3) We certainly didn't capitalise, we were crap in the final third. But we did put them under pressure a few times and with a bit more composure/ care we could have grabbed a goal. Our inability to do that let the chavs sit on their lead, something they excel at (the boring cunts).
4) True again. Letting Hazard run through the midfield and into the box is schoolboy error stuff. Both CBs being caught out by a simple lob over the top, pretty dumb again.

The bit I don't agree with is it not (at least partly) being Wenger's fault. He set us up to fail and then compounded his error by persisting with a plan that simply wasn't working and never looked like working. He played into the chav's hands as usual. Then he made those shitty and pointless subs. He's badly out of touch in these big games as the record demonstrates. It can't be argued against. The record is appalling and speaks for itself.

Fair enough . Wenger is not totally innocent for this defeat . But he made all his best players available . You could say he should have started Chamberlain but if Sanchez or Cazorla or Ozil were benched you could still have said the same .
And even though , in a big game you don't throw all your big guns on the pitch . You keep at least one who can change the game when the legs are tired .
The Flamini and wellbeck situations are red card cases without doubt but there are consequences of the referee inability to deal properly with similar previous situations . For me our players let us more down than Wenger . Of course , it is my own opinion . Regardless of the fact that many don't share it but that is my opinion .

[Harland]

Guys, he has a different opinion. That's allowed isn't it? Anyway, what he's saying is true:

1) Hardly anyone has managed it. They have an insane record at home.
2) Ref was shit, not sending off Cahill was an absolute scandal and that could have changed the game. But fair enough, there's the other side of the coin with idiots like Flamini elbowing people in the face. He's lucky, nobody is even mentioning it but that was the second most obvious red of the day.
3) We certainly didn't capitalise, we were crap in the final third. But we did put them under pressure a few times and with a bit more composure/ care we could have grabbed a goal. Our inability to do that let the chavs sit on their lead, something they excel at (the boring cunts).
4) True again. Letting Hazard run through the midfield and into the box is schoolboy error stuff. Both CBs being caught out by a simple lob over the top, pretty dumb again.

The bit I don't agree with is it not (at least partly) being Wenger's fault. He set us up to fail and then compounded his error by persisting with a plan that simply wasn't working and never looked like working. He played into the chav's hands as usual. Then he made those shitty and pointless subs. He's badly out of touch in these big games as the record demonstrates. It can't be argued against. The record is appalling and speaks for itself.

I thought Welbeck's late challenge was more of a red than Flamini's elbow (looked unintentional to me). Cahill should definitely have been off but people arguing along the lines of the 'rules of the game' say Kosc should have been off as well.

[Marc Overmars]

Koscielny has conceded th most pels since 2010 (6).

clumsy.

And Chesney has conceded the 2nd highest. :doh:

Quite an impressive 1-2 there.

[AFC Leveller]

Barcelona at home disagrees with that though.

I don't blame Kos for the penalty too much. The challenge was very instinctive and not one of his previous moronic challenges where's he had time to weigh up the options (see Villa at home last year). The majority of blame lies with Flamini and Santi (I believe?) for letting Hazard easily skip pass them at that pace and manage a run on Kos in the box. Bundle him over and take the FK but you don't let a player with the skill of Hazard having a free run on our CB's in the area.

Also. Szechesny got done very easily for the penalty itself. When was the last time he saved a penalty or won us a game the same way De Gea did for United over the weekend?

The second goal on the other hand ....... that was one which should have been handled. No way should our CB's be allowing a long ball over the top to result in a goal. Though mind you the deliverer was Cesc and the receipant was Costa, two world class players and difficult for any defence to deal with. All in all though, I thought our defence played alright, better than most games this season and wasn't the reason why we lost that match.

The 2nd goal looked avoidable to me. Koscielny looked like he was about to control the ball but his misjudged it and in the process let Costa run free.

The first goal was simple unacceptable. Why play 3 in the middile if they are gonna let Hazard run stright at the CBs? Cazorla just basically escorted him to our pel area.

That Wilshere chance where he miscontroled it could have been a game turner but in the end, they were better and worked harder, esp in defence.

[Alpha]

The 2nd goal looked avoidable to me. Koscielny looked like he was about to control the ball but his misjudged it and in the process let Costa run free.

The first goal was simple unacceptable. Why play 3 in the middile if they are gonna let Hazard run stright at the CBs? Cazorla just basically escorted him to our pel area.

That Wilshere chance where he miscontroled it could have been a game turner but in the end, they were better and worked harder, esp in defence.

True . It was very avoidable goal . Worst scenario was Kos to cover BFG to avoid a straight red card and the german could simply have had to shoulder Costa and made him off-balance . That could have been just a yellow card or nothing .
Most referees accept a push with a shoulder if not very clumsy .

[Özim]

Even if Chelsea were down to 10 men, we wouldn't have won, they're too organised and we just don't have the answers to that. We've been shown up enough times to know we just can't take these big teams on and beat them, it's nothing to do with the ref it's to do with the tactics, the team selection and players not being utilised in their natural positions as well as an insistence on playing slow paced tippy tappy football which has been proven to be a failure (unless you have a team full of top notch players and a superstar) and a refusal to address weak areas in the transfer windows.

You don't fail to win so many big games without there being a fundamental problem with your approach.

[Alpha]

Even if Chelsea were down to 10 men, we wouldn't have won, they're too organised and we just don't have the answers to that. We've been shown up enough time to know we just can't take these big teams on and beat them, it's nothing to do with the ref it's to do with the tactics, the team selection and players not being utilised in their natural positions as well as an insistence on playing slow paced tippy tappy football which has been proven to be a failure (unless you have a team full of top notch players and a superstar) and a refusal to address weak areas in the transfer windows.

You don't fail to win so many big games without there being a fundamental problem with your approach.

We wouldn't have known with a referee so nice to a strong team . He should have sent Cahill off first before we could have agreed or disagreed with your statement .

[Niall_Quinn]

Even if Chelsea were down to 10 men, we wouldn't have won, they're too organised and we just don't have the answers to that. We've been shown up enough times to know we just can't take these big teams on and beat them, it's nothing to do with the ref it's to do with the tactics, the team selection and players not being utilised in their natural positions as well as an insistence on playing slow paced tippy tappy football which has been proven to be a failure (unless you have a team full of top notch players and a superstar) and a refusal to address weak areas in the transfer windows.

You don't fail to win so many big games without there being a fundamental problem with your approach.

Forced to agree. And I mean forced, dragged, kicking and screaming. But the record can't be explained away by 398 unlucky performances. Different teams, different players, same result. One common factor.

[Xhaka Can’t]

There is nothing about Wenger indoctrination as your emotions make you think . We are all gutted for the defeat as fans .Wenger put out his best team . The players did not perform as expected . Simple as that . We don't have the players health records . We don't know who are about to burn out and who are at risks of injury .
You can say he should have started this or that player . He should have put this player at this position.But we don't know what is behind closed doors . Not playing Ozil in the middle is just a myth . He has the freedom to operate everywhere . Even when he plays in the "middle" he can still go in the wings .
Now you tell me if you were the manager what you could have done .
I think the players performed exactly as expected.

[selassie]

Barcelona at home disagrees with that though.

I don't blame Kos for the penalty too much. The challenge was very instinctive and not one of his previous moronic challenges where's he had time to weigh up the options (see Villa at home last year). The majority of blame lies with Flamini and Santi (I believe?) for letting Hazard easily skip pass them at that pace and manage a run on Kos in the box. Bundle him over and take the FK but you don't let a player with the skill of Hazard having a free run on our CB's in the area.

Also. Szechesny got done very easily for the penalty itself. When was the last time he saved a penalty or won us a game the same way De Gea did for United over the weekend?

The second goal on the other hand ....... that was one which should have been handled. No way should our CB's be allowing a long ball over the top to result in a goal. Though mind you the deliverer was Cesc and the receipant was Costa, two world class players and difficult for any defence to deal with. All in all though, I thought our defence played alright, better than most games this season and wasn't the reason why we lost that match.

Yeah to be fair he did perform well against Barca at home.

The problem is most definitely Central Midfield, the lack of defensive awareness and cover is killing us, you have pretty much alluded to this with your Flamini/Santi comment. Central Defence isn't really a big problem though I have not felt that comfortable with Central Defence in the big games for quite a while now..

Yeah Chesney has been dodgy for me this season, he doesn't seem to have that commanding presence that he had last season and his distribution is awful. He also gives me the jitters when he messes about with the ball after receiving a backpass!

If you watch the replay for Costa's goal you will realise how bad our defending was, they were both caught square, it was schoolboy stuff.

[Özim]

We wouldn't have known with a referee so nice to a strong team . He should have sent Cahill off first before we could have agreed or disagreed with your statement .

We would, it's predictable, we always lose or fail to win, just look at our record. People knew we'd lose before we started. Even with 10 men Chelsea are organised and well drilled enough to keep us at bay, I don't think we really have the game to open them up because we're so slow it allows them to block any of our attacks, whether it's 10 or 11 doesn't make a huge amount of difference when you play a game like ours, we don't really exploit space.

[Power n Glory]

I think the players performed exactly as expected.

Ain't that the sad truth.

[Letters]

We would, it's predictable, we always lose or fail to win, just look at our record. People knew we'd lose before we started. Even with 10 men Chelsea are organised and well drilled enough to keep us at bay, I don't think we really have the game to open them up because we're so slow it allows them to block any of our attacks, whether it's 10 or 11 doesn't make a huge amount of difference when you play a game like ours, we don't really exploit space.
<gritted-teeth>Have to agree, sadly.</gritted-teeth>

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Thanks, The doomongers want you to believe that Wenger is so Intrinsic to our existence that any sudden sacking would inevitably lead to our disintegration. We let Bruce Rioch go midseason and appointed some nobody who took us to 3rd and won the double the next season. We have a chief executive now and Bould knows the players as well as Wenger. I dare say, we would finish 4th


Post of the week tbh

[Niall_Quinn]

The doomongers want you to believe that Wenger is so Intrinsic to our existence that any sudden sacking would inevitably lead to our disintegration.

Nah, nobody ever said that. It's just a few people are against hounding him out of the stadium with sticks and beheading him on the concourse (tit-for-tat exaggeration).

[Letters]

Not only did no-one say that but comparing Rioch (who was NOT sacked mid-season and in any case had only been with us for one season) with Wenger (who has been our manager for 18 years and has been criticised, with some justification, for being too involved in too many aspects of running the club) is ludicrous. You cannot sensibly compare the situations.

[Power n Glory]

Nah, nobody ever said that. It's just a few people are against hounding him out of the stadium with sticks and beheading him on the concourse (tit-for-tat exaggeration).

We’ve briefly discussed this before and I don’t think Wenger will go any other way. He’s a stubborn character and when he’s challenged on something he gets prickly and bites back. He’ll dig his heels in and keep pressing forward. That’s what’s been happening over the past few years with this team and although we’re seeing slight changes and adjustments, I don’t think it’s enough to stop the tide turning on him. Instead of praise, he’ll just keep on getting criticised from all angles and he’s directly in the firing line now because we can’t use our finances as an excuse and maybe UEFA will come down harder on those breaking the FFP regulations. (maybe). I’m not saying this is how I want him to go. It just seems like this will end like Brian Clough’s reign but not as dramatic. But still a tragic end if things don’t change. Last year with the FA Cup win would have been perfect. If he can someone how replicate that, then fantastic. But can he?

[Alpha]

We would, it's predictable, we always lose or fail to win, just look at our record. People knew we'd lose before we started. Even with 10 men Chelsea are organised and well drilled enough to keep us at bay, I don't think we really have the game to open them up because we're so slow it allows them to block any of our attacks, whether it's 10 or 11 doesn't make a huge amount of difference when you play a game like ours, we don't really exploit space.
I can see where you are coming from .But unfortunately I'm not a fatalistic . I don't believe that something which happened in the past would keep on happening the same way for the sake of it .
Since the referee didn't do his job properly by sending off Cahill for his dangerous foul on Sanchez it's hard to make me believe we wouldn't have taken advantage of the situation.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I've reached the point where i can no longer have any respect for the facile opinions of BBC Sport, Sky Sports etc, Match of the Day Three for instance talking about the war of words between Mourinho and Wenger saying of Mourinho "he seems like the kind of individual who would take any comment put in his direction with a pinch of salt?"

Are they fucking serious....Mourinho is the most thin skinned individual in the game, these spiteful remarks he has made himself infamous for have come as a result of perceiving insults or criticism at him, the guy is a clinical narcissist everything about his personality suggests this. It's not an insult it just happens to be how the evidence presents itself, Narcissistic individuals often try to undermine the achievements of others around them, they are spiteful and bullying towards those around them and it's based on a deep seated self-loathing which paradoxically represents itself as morbid self love and the need to react defensively and aggressively towards any perceived threat to this.
The amount of ad hominem remarks the guy has made about other managers says it all, if anything i think Mourinho is more irked by Wenger than the other way round.
Because he is in a position where he has so much attention lavished on him it feeds his condition and arguably some aspects of his narcissism makes him effective in the job he does, but ultimately it's a self-destructive malady.

[Penguin]

:gp:

[Globalgunner]

Not only did no-one say that but comparing Rioch (who was NOT sacked mid-season and in any case had only been with us for one season) with Wenger (who has been our manager for 18 years and has been criticised, with some justification, for being too involved in too many aspects of running the club) is ludicrous. You cannot sensibly compare the situations.

How does this address the issue that Wenger is no longer fit for purpose but is an anchor dragging the club into mediocrity. If there is an issue all you ever do is misdirect the argument w/o ever addressing the issue at hand. How on earth you can deduce that we are comparing Rioch with Wenger is simply an example of your own delusions. Rioch left Wenger came in mid season, where is the beef?. Nobody is asking for Wenger to be drawn and quartered at the Emirates centre circle. We just wish he would respect the club and stop using it as a smokescreen for his inadequacies. He knows he cannot compete in the real world. Yes the big bad moneyed world of City, United and Chelsea, but we cannot allow him to create his own alternative reality where he wins in his own mind and we celebrate his achievements with him. Even NQ sees the dementia of Wengers tactics and strategic blunders. I surmise that his problem with the Wenger Out campaign is that he resisted it for so long and hates being on the wrong side of history. You on the other hand would rather have a limb amputated than accept that Wenger is weighing us down. Yes you voted for him to leave in this poll (I checked), but again I suspect that it is nothing but arcane, nefarious and malicious misdirection. Kindly go back and reverse your vote.:p

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

How does this address the issue that Wenger is no longer fit for purpose but is an anchor dragging the club into mediocrity.

Is that really happening?....dragging us down?....yes we haven't pushed on but we are hardly being sucked downwards....yes Wenger isn't the man to take us forward even my Dog who is barely sentient recognises this. But also has any club chelsea aside actually performed that well this season in any event?....seems to me that everyone is dropping points like loose change in a pocket full of holes.

[Globalgunner]

Is that really happening?....dragging us down?....yes we haven't pushed on but we are hardly being sucked downwards....yes Wenger isn't the man to take us forward even my Dog who is barely sentient recognises this. But also has any club chelsea aside actually performed that well this season in any event?....seems to me that everyone is dropping points like loose change in a pocket full of holes.

I believe coming 4th perpetually where we once used to lament coming 2nd is simply venerated mediocrity.

[Letters]

Yes you voted for him to leave in this poll
Yes. Which rather makes a nonsense of the rest of your post :lol:

My position isn't that hard to understand:
Wenger's time with us is clearly coming to an end but:

a) Things aren't nearly as bad as some people make out and he is not as bad a manager as some on here are making out. Last year we finished 4th (as always!) and we won the FA Cup. It was, overall, a pretty good season. This season we have been patchy at best so far but Chelsea aside no-one has really gone off like a train. We're only 4 points off City in 2nd and we have a run of very winnable games coming up after which things may look quite different. This was our first league defeat of the season and it was against a side who are looking like they might walk the lead this season (don't think they will, it's very early days, long way to go yet). As always, some people are over-reacting.

b) There is absolutely no point in replacing Wenger with someone who will do worse. How does that make any sense at all? Obviously there is no guarantee that someone else will come in and do better but some people act like any bumbling idiot would come in and we'd be loads better. Wenger is a pretty safe pair of hands, we'll probably keep finishing 4th under him. We should be aiming higher but I see no benefit in replacing him with someone likely to do worse and there's no hurry to replace him, so long as we keep finishing in the top 4 we have a good platform for any future manager.

[Letters]

I believe coming 4th perpetually where we once used to lament coming 2nd is simply venerated mediocrity.
That was before we had 2 clubs buying their way in to the top 4. The top 2 will probably be City and Chelsea this year and with their resources it bloody well should be.

[fakeyank]

Nobody is asking for Wenger to be drawn and quartered at the Emirates centre circle. We just wish he would respect the club and stop using it as a smokescreen for his inadequacies. He knows he cannot compete in the real world. Yes the big bad moneyed world of City, United and Chelsea, but we cannot allow him to create his own alternative reality where he wins in his own mind and we celebrate his achievements with him

:gp:

One of the best posts ever.. especially the part in bold. Wenger trumps whatever crap we are producing as the best in the world. He serves us canned tuna for 100$ and expects us to behave like he has given us caviar.

[Letters]

Wenger trumps whatever crap we are producing as the best in the world.
Does he? Care to elaborate?

[fakeyank]

That was before we had 2 clubs buying their way in to the top 4. The top 2 will probably be City and Chelsea this year and with their resources it bloody well should be.

But they didnt buy the title this season.. nor did they last season. We outspent both teams this season, so whats the excuse? Let's take expenses out of the equation for one second and see how horrible our football is... you cannot tell me that a team with Welbeck, Sanchez, Ozil, Wilshere, Ox, Cazorla should not be expected to have ONE shot on goal!

Answer this question... Do you think it is acceptable that after paying the highest ticket prices in world football, we should not at least expect to be entertained? Or even challenge the top teams? Sure, we wont win all the games but you and everyone knew that we would be lucky to get a draw out of this game. In what world is that acceptable?

[fakeyank]

Does he? Care to elaborate?

Yes, he has said on multiple occasions how getting fourth place is like a trophy. He makes us feel like we should be glad we got 4th place. He talks about spirit and togetherness of the team as being exceptional (time and time again). If the recent squads spirit is exceptional, I'd like to see a broken spirited team. None of the players fight for each other.. on most days, we do not even turn up in the first half! IF that is not the managers job then I dont know what is.

[Power n Glory]

Is that really happening?....dragging us down?....yes we haven't pushed on but we are hardly being sucked downwards....yes Wenger isn't the man to take us forward even my Dog who is barely sentient recognises this. But also has any club chelsea aside actually performed that well this season in any event?....seems to me that everyone is dropping points like loose change in a pocket full of holes.

Be honest, in light of what we've seen in the past, do you think we'll see a turn around and we'll push on to challenge for the title?

It's early days but we can no longer use that misdirection tactic and point to the flaws of our rivals whilst looking past our own. It really doesn't matter that our rivals have been inconsistent, we're on level points with Liverpool and the rest are above us.

[Letters]

But they didnt buy the title this season.. nor did they last season. We outspent both teams this season, so whats the excuse?
Oh behave. You look at the money they've spent over a sustained period. City won the title last season after a sustained period of spending way beyond their means. You answer me this: would they have won the title without the billionaire owner spunking money around over the last few years? The answer to that is obvious so yes, yes they did buy the title. Were they a business who had to play by business rules they'd have gone bust. Were FFP to have any bite they'd be docked so many points they'd have no hope of winning the league. As it is they just had to pay a bribe/fine and on they go.
Teams like Chelsea are able to stockpile players to the point where they can not just build better squads than anyone could if they had to live within their means, they employ far more cynical tactics than just outbidding other teams. Chelsea buy up players and then loan them out to non-rivals to make it even harder to compete with them.
( http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/sep/09/chelsea-loan-players-change-rules-wild-west-football )
City's owners have bought other clubs where they can stockpile players thus ensuring rivals don't get them.
It's not an 'excuse' to say it's very difficult to compete with clubs who can do this sort of thing. You seriously think another manager is going to waltz in and we'll be winning the league? You're kidding yourself.

I agree with the rest of your post. Our football isn't good at the moment and we should be playing more like we did against Galatasaray who might not be much good but they're probably no worse than a lot of the PL sides we'll face. That game showed we can do it, it's frustrating we don't do it more.

As for what Wenger says. He does spout a load of bollocks, granted, but he's never been one to publicly criticise his players and nor should he, IMO. Like it or not 4th place is important because of the way the CL works, it's not like a trophy obviously but see above about Wenger spouting bollocks and I don't see how you equate that with claiming he: 'trumps whatever crap we are producing best in the world'. 4th shouldn't be the limit of our ambitions but I've explained why I feel it's difficult to do better than 3rd. I think we should be closer, I think our football should be better, but we're hardly mid-table or worse and we did win the FA Cup less than 5 months ago.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Be honest, in light of what we've seen in the past, do you think we'll see a turn around and we'll push on to challenge for the title?

It's early days but we can no longer use that misdirection tactic and point to the flaws of our rivals whilst looking past our own. It really doesn't matter that our rivals have been inconsistent, we're on level points with Liverpool and the rest are above us.

I would have thought my previous statement rather answered your question, obviously stating that my dog can see that Wenger is NOT the person to push us forward is not Unequivocal enough for you.

My point is that everything has to be put in it's proper perspective, whilst it is frustrating seeing Wenger make the same mistakes over and over again. Personal frustration cannot be equated with Crisis, that's when managers get sacked.

I have stated previously that he should have been encouraged to go out on a high at the end of last season, but the fact remains he has a contract until 2017 and unless 4th place is in jeopardy there is no question of him being sacked....and there still isn't huge appetite from the fans to push him before he jumps even though that more or less all of them acknowledge that we almost certainly won't win the title back in that period of time.

Is it ideal?....no not really... but barring terminal cancer i feel i can wait three years.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Saying that, might be a good reason to quit smoking :)

[Power n Glory]

I would have thought my previous statement rather answered your question, obviously stating that my dog can see that Wenger is NOT the person to push us forward is not Unequivocal enough for you.

My point is that everything has to be put in it's proper perspective, whilst it is frustrating seeing Wenger make the same mistakes over and over again. Personal frustration cannot be equated with Crisis, that's when managers get sacked.

I have stated previously that he should have been encouraged to go out on a high at the end of last season, but the fact remains he has a contract until 2017 and unless 4th place is in jeopardy there is no question of him being sacked....and there still isn't huge appetite from the fans to push him before he jumps even though that more or less all of them acknowledge that we almost certainly won't win the title back in that period of time.

Is it ideal?....no not really... but barring terminal cancer i feel i can wait three years.

But I didn't ask if you thought Wenger was the right guy for the job. I was referring to your comment about our rivals dropping points. It shouldn't matter that they're dropping points, especially when most of them are above us already. Pointing to their performances in light of our own doesn't put anything into perspective.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

But I didn't ask if you thought Wenger was the right guy for the job. I was referring to your comment about our rivals dropping points. It shouldn't matter that they're dropping points, especially when most of them are above us already. Pointing to their performances in light of our own doesn't put anything into perspective.

"Be honest, in light of what we've seen in the past, do you think we'll see a turn around and we'll push on to challenge for the title?"

Challenging for the title for me would be taking us forward would it not?....therefore as i don't think Wenger will take us forward i don't think we will challenge for the title. What i mean by putting things in their perspective is because of the results of the teams around us, we aren't in crisis. Is that a surging endorsement of the manager?....no not really but my point is that it doesn't really prompt any great appetite from the vast majority of people who attend the Emirates game in, game out for his immediate removal either.

If i remember correctly given that this isn't the referendum topic, the conversation veered into why there is no great clamor at games for the manager to be removed. Firstly my point was that in the last 12 months we have faired reasonably well at home, and secondly whilst there is frustration that we aren't reaching our full potential a lot of the rumbling was more based around selling our best players and not bringing in players of any real quality to replace them.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

:gp:

One of the best posts ever.. especially the part in bold. Wenger trumps whatever crap we are producing as the best in the world. He serves us canned tuna for 100$ and expects us to behave like he has given us caviar.

Both quite putrid and I'd actually might even prefer to waste the gold on the tinned tuna and that is revolting as it is. Choosing one to buy and eat is a little like deciding which testicle you want smashed to smithereens. In the end it a detestable experience.

I know this is entirely besides the point. :d

[fakeyank]

Oh behave. You look at the money they've spent over a sustained period. City won the title last season after a sustained period of spending way beyond their means. You answer me this: would they have won the title without the billionaire owner spunking money around over the last few years? The answer to that is obvious so yes, yes they did buy the title. Were they a business who had to play by business rules they'd have gone bust. Were FFP to have any bite they'd be docked so many points they'd have no hope of winning the league. As it is they just had to pay a bribe/fine and on they go.
Teams like Chelsea are able to stockpile players to the point where they can not just build better squads than anyone could if they had to live within their means, they employ far more cynical tactics than just outbidding other teams. Chelsea buy up players and then loan them out to non-rivals to make it even harder to compete with them.
( http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/sep/09/chelsea-loan-players-change-rules-wild-west-football )
City's owners have bought other clubs where they can stockpile players thus ensuring rivals don't get them.
It's not an 'excuse' to say it's very difficult to compete with clubs who can do this sort of thing. You seriously think another manager is going to waltz in and we'll be winning the league? You're kidding yourself.

I agree with the rest of your post. Our football isn't good at the moment and we should be playing more like we did against Galatasaray who might not be much good but they're probably no worse than a lot of the PL sides we'll face. That game showed we can do it, it's frustrating we don't do it more.

As for what Wenger says. He does spout a load of bollocks, granted, but he's never been one to publicly criticise his players and nor should he, IMO. Like it or not 4th place is important because of the way the CL works, it's not like a trophy obviously but see above about Wenger spouting bollocks and I don't see how you equate that with claiming he: 'trumps whatever crap we are producing best in the world'. 4th shouldn't be the limit of our ambitions but I've explained why I feel it's difficult to do better than 3rd. I think we should be closer, I think our football should be better, but we're hardly mid-table or worse and we did win the FA Cup less than 5 months ago.

I'll ask you a question... lets say Abramovich or Abu Dhabi did not come in whenever it was, do you think City or Chelsea would EVER have won anything? The format and money of CL is such that there was really only 3 teams- Liverpool, Utd and us who had a chance to win. Yes, I accept that that a sustained period of spending took them above us but I think that in the last 2 seasons we had the financial power to be very close to them. Especially with FFP, these teams cannot add players as they 'wish'.

Like I said, I am not saying we beat them left right and center (it'd be great if we could).. all I am asking is that a team filled with that much talent at least entertain and put in an effort. And this is not an ask only because of this match, this is ALL I ever asked of the manager.. and he has failed to deliver that consistently over the last many seasons. Like I said.. for his salary and the ticket prices we pay, Arsenal Football club deserves a manager who can do that and Wenger is NOT the answer!

[Letters]

I'll ask you a question... lets say Abramovich or Abu Dhabi did not come in whenever it was, do you think City or Chelsea would EVER have won anything?
No, obviously not. The whole way football is set up is designed to keep the top clubs up there. No-one can break into the top 4 without serious investment.
I don't blame City or Chelsea for doing what they've done, I do blame their idiot fans for strutting around crowing as though it's an achievement though.

We do now have the financial power to compete with them better than we have been able to previously and that new financial power has seen a change in transfer policy. Ozil last year (whatever you think of how he's done, that was a major signing which showed some real intent), this year we've signed Sanchez, Chambers and Welbeck, none of whom were cheap. But before that we were tied into poor commercial deals which were signed in order to guarantee stadium repayments and, while we all agree Wenger was probably too conservative in that era, we were not able to spend like some of our rivals. Now some of those constraints have been lifted we've started spending accordingly.

FFP has been a joke. As I said, City flouted it and what was their 'punishment'? A fine.
A fine! They fined a team who have infinite money :lol: What kind of punishment is that? No points docked, no ban from any competitions, just a pay off. They might as well have called it a bribe and be done with it.
Plus they can get around it buy buying other clubs or loaning players out and stockpiling players elsewhere. Whatever our commercial deals it will always be difficult for us to properly compete.

Agree about effort and entertainment and with the talent we have we should be doing better than we have so far this season. That said...we're 4 points off 2nd place. No-one has been that consistent so far apart from Chelsea. We have a run of winnable games coming up. It's very early days yet. Wenger was never getting sacked after last season, this season we've been wobbling but it's far too early to be pushing the panic button just yet.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't blame City or Chelsea for doing what they've done

I do. Just as everyone would have blamed us if we'd allowed Saddam Hussein to buy the club. A Russian mobster and a bunch of Arab thieves? Kind of predictable wht these bastards would do to the game.

[Niall_Quinn]

Like I said, I am not saying we beat them left right and center (it'd be great if we could).. all I am asking is that a team filled with that much talent at least entertain and put in an effort.

Same here. Our footie is boring shit, excluding those few moments when the individuals rise above the drab tactics. I want the exciting football back more than I want trophies.

[Letters]

I do. Just as everyone would have blamed us if we'd allowed Saddam Hussein to buy the club. A Russian mobster and a bunch of Arab thieves? Kind of predictable wht these bastards would do to the game.

Fair enough, but it's easy to take the moral high ground when we were one of the 'haves'. What was the other option if they wanted to get up there?

[Niall_Quinn]

Fair enough, but it's easy to take the moral high ground when we were one of the 'haves'. What was the other option if they wanted to get up there?

Work like we did. Build a fan base like we did. Work on home-grown talent and a world class scouting network like we did. Build a sustainable model, like we did. Over time, like we did. A decade.

[Letters]

We did it at a time when the gaps between the haves and have nots was small enough that you could do that, right now I don't believe it's possible.

[Niall_Quinn]

We did it at a time when the gaps between the haves and have nots was small enough that you could do that, right now I don't believe it's possible.

Because the dirty gypos and the dirty chavs came in and bought so much cement that nothing can move now. Liverpool had a dynasty, Utd were nowhere. Then Utd had a dynasty, Liverpool were nowhere. Arsenal, Everton, even Aston Villa intervened in that time period and nothing to say that what has always gone on in football would not have continued. Even now, Utd with their billions aren't glued to the top and are still in the realms of reality, albeit with plenty of resources in their favour. But you imagine they could still be clawed back and in fact we have seen it. One bad decision and they drop out of Europe. You can't see it ever happening with the dopers and glory purchasers - they are here to stay and it's their cash that has done it for them. They are bad for the game and with their latest trick of buying up clubs to hoard 5, 6, 7 teams from which to do their dodgy Lampard style deals it's only going to get worse.

[Dein-machine]

Wenger's high points are 1,The Invincibles & the early success. 2, Great passing football. 3, The Stadium move. 4, Consistent C.L qualification.
The C.L. qualification has continued although it seems to get tougher every year & on top of that we are now consistently getting nowhere in the competition.
When he arrived, he inherited a solid defence + Mr Bergkamp. He added the likes of Viera, Henry, Overmars, Petite & Freddy to assemble what has to be best Premier team ever, we went unbeaten & we did it in style. This was done prior to the Chavs money kicking in & when United were the only real opposition.
The stadium move is undoubtedly fantastic for the future, we know he played a huge part in this but in my opinion it could & should have been done with him playing a minor role. His only real interest should have been to make sure we stayed competitive, which meant making sure investing in the team was not hindered by stadium repayments.
Apart from C.L qualification, every else we thank him for happened a decade ago - football has changed, for the worse, due to money but it is what it is. The legend of Wenger is built on the early success & we have to remember we were winning titles with George Graham only a few years earlier. He made some decent signings, ones we could afford & he certainly took our football to another level but what he did wasn't a "miracle". In the past decade the most consistent thing about Wenger is the inability to compete at the level we were before. In any other business, this stagnation would result in a fresh face at the top. The longer the decision is left alone through fear of the unknown & the comfort of 4th place will result in others pulling further away & others overtaking.

[Niall_Quinn]

The football was a miracle though. Best I have ever seen. Maybe his biggest mistake is trying to recreate what simply can't be achieved again. Maybe that was the best it gets.

[Dein-machine]

The football was a miracle though. Best I have ever seen. Maybe his biggest mistake is trying to recreate what simply can't be achieved again. Maybe that was the best it gets.

You could be right - Maureens boring defensive mode means through all the Chavs success, its been shit to watch. I think City were certainly close last year when they were hammering teams every week with great attacking play but the Henry/Bergkamp partnership was truly a thing of beauty & we may never see anything like that again in our lifetime.

[Injury Time]

The football was a miracle though. Best I have ever seen. Maybe his biggest mistake is trying to recreate what simply can't be achieved again. Maybe that was the best it gets.

Football RIP :rose:

[Marc Overmars]

The football was a miracle though. Best I have ever seen. Maybe his biggest mistake is trying to recreate what simply can't be achieved again. Maybe that was the best it gets.

Thing is though, he's not even been trying to recreate it. That team was full of powerful athletes who could simply run the opposition into the ground, nothing like what we've seen since say, 2006, when he started bringing in the wave of smaller technical players and changed the style of play. Pace and power™ has always had the edge in this league, so I don't know why he's gone down a different path despite having barely any success with it.

[Letters]

Because the dirty gypos and the dirty chavs came in and bought so much cement that nothing can move now.
They took it to a new level but with the CL money keeping a group of teams at the top it was already very difficult before they did that.

[Dein-machine]

Thing is though, he's not even been trying to recreate it. That team was full of powerful athletes who could simply run the opposition into the ground, nothing like what we've seen since say, 2006, when he started bringing in the wave of smaller technical players and changed the style of play. Pace and power™ has always had the edge in this league, so I don't know why he's gone down a different path despite having barely any success with it.

Agreed - he decided he wanted to follow the Barca route instead. The problem is that they had world class players in all forward positions, many of whom had grown up together. Wenger thought he could teach this to "bargain buys" & still does.
To "over-play" in boggy, damp pitches in the English winter is only going to result in disaster.

[fakeyank]

Agree about effort and entertainment and with the talent we have we should be doing better than we have so far this season. That said...we're 4 points off 2nd place. No-one has been that consistent so far apart from Chelsea. We have a run of winnable games coming up. It's very early days yet. Wenger was never getting sacked after last season, this season we've been wobbling but it's far too early to be pushing the panic button just yet.

I agree its early days and its not because of that I say that I want Wenger out. I say that because we have been having the same conversation for many years now. Simple question, Based on what has happened in the last 5 years, do you think we will improve our style of football or put in more effort by the end of this season under AW? If yes, I'd like to know the reason for that thought process. If no, then why are we not looking to replace him?

[fakeyank]

You could be right - Maureens boring defensive mode means through all the Chavs success, its been shit to watch. I think City were certainly close last year when they were hammering teams every week with great attacking play but the Henry/Bergkamp partnership was truly a thing of beauty & we may never see anything like that again in our lifetime.

I am not sure I understand the criticism of Mou's 'defensive mode'. His teams play defensive mode against the big teams but against other opposition, they score a bagful of goals. I think 'parking the bus' is a stereotype that has stuck to them. If I were a neutral, I'd prefer watching Chelsea over Arsenal. I am not exaggerating when I say that our football is absolutely atrocious on most days. Pass front, then side, then back, then side, then back, then front... no penetration, no direct play! In fact, AW is lucky in this respect over Mou that the stereotype of Arsenal playing 'beautiful football' has stuck with us. The last time I remember we played beautiful football consistently over a season was the 07/08 season... Its been a pile of manure since then!

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think we are such a mess as far as what our Board would describe as 'product' that they won't effectively replace Wenger even when he does decide to leave.

I've just got fuck all confidence in our Board and Management to get anything right.

[adzzzbatch]

Thing is though, he's not even been trying to recreate it. That team was full of powerful athletes who could simply run the opposition into the ground, nothing like what we've seen since say, 2006, when he started bringing in the wave of smaller technical players and changed the style of play. Pace and power™ has always had the edge in this league, so I don't know why he's gone down a different path despite having barely any success with it.

We soon got found out playing the way we used to, the opposition learnt to adapt to nullify us when we were attacking. Remember those games where we would have 20 shots on target and not score and even on the odd occasion the other team would go up the other end and nick a win.

[Letters]

If no, then why are we not looking to replace him?
It is a no, but from the board's point of view it's because he's meeting the board's targets for him.
From the fans point of view, most of us do think he needs replacing, but it has to be done in a controlled way and not with someone who is likely to do worse.

[fakeyank]

We soon got found out playing the way we used to, the opposition learnt to adapt to nullify us when we were attacking. Remember those games where we would have 20 shots on target and not score and even on the odd occasion the other team would go up the other end and nick a win.

At least that was good to watch.. it sucks watching us play teams like Norwich and have one shot on target for 90 minutes. If we have to get 4th, at least play football which will entertain the fans. No point playing the shit we do..

[fakeyank]

It is a no, but from the board's point of view it's because he's meeting the board's targets for him.
From the fans point of view, most of us do think he needs replacing, but it has to be done in a controlled way and not with someone who is likely to do worse.

There is no guarantee of who will do worse or who wont.. yes, look for someone qualified but there is no one- not even SAF or Mou who can guarantee any team success. Let this be not a reason for not replacing Wenger.

I'd be very interested to know what 'controlled' to you means..

[Letters]

It means not done in a panic mid-season after a couple of poor results with no real plan what to do next.
Like Spurs do every other year.

[Niall_Quinn]

It means banning the media and throwing away newspapers and switching off the cunt pundits, ignoring the fans and beginning negotiations with the right man well before Wenger is due to step down (or step up). A nice smooth transition that leaves the media scratching their heads because they never had a whiff of it. Like another appointment I remember. Also that fat bastard crook we have lurking in the wings needs to be kept well out of the picture.

[fakeyank]

It means not done in a panic mid-season after a couple of poor results with no real plan what to do next.
Like Spurs do every other year.

I have written off this season already.. so assuming everything goes according to 'plan' and we barely scrape 4th place by May, would the time between now and May be considered a good time to find a replacement? Personally I do not care if its mid season or post season as we are not winning anything this year, so might as well make the call now. The only problem is that Wenger has the board cupped by the balls and those people are not going to fire him. Best solution is for me (and a lot of other people) to write off the next 3 years and hope Wenger does not sign another new contract.

:banghead: :crying:

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Sorry, but he's not going anywhere for at least another 2.75 seasons. Guaranteed.

:ilt:

[Maestro]

Excuse my ignorance, but when did we start referring to that cunt as Mou?

Didn't get the memo me :shrug:

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Banable offence really.

[Letters]

I have written off this season already..
Well that's pretty ridiculous.

[LDG]

Well that's pretty ridiculous.

I'm not watching any more matches. I know the outcome of all of them.

[Marc Overmars]

I'm not watching any more matches. I know the outcome of all of them.

Probably not far from the truth tbh.

[Letters]

Probably not far from the truth tbh.
Well, no.

Although if you amend that to

I'm not watching any more away matches vs the top 2. I know the outcome of all of them.

Then it's spot on. It was the grim inevitability of the result which annoyed me. But we've got a run of very winnable games coming up, if we win those then things will look very different.

[Injury Time]

I'm not watching any more matches. I know the outcome of all of them.

Me too :sulk:, I've asked them to turn my seat around at The Emirates :p

[Niall_Quinn]

Me too :sulk:, I've asked them to turn my seat around at The Emirates :p

Turks have already done that for you - no charge (they always get away with it)

[Globalgunner]

Well, no.

Although if you amend that to

I'm not watching any more away matches vs the top 2. I know the outcome of all of them.

Then it's spot on. It was the grim inevitability of the result which annoyed me. But we've got a run of very winnable games coming up, if we win those then things will look very different.

Different from a top 4 finish?. Or worse?

[Letters]

Different from a top 4 finish?. Or worse?

Different from now.