Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

[Özim]

Interested by this comment (he says, trying to drag the conversation back to Arsenal).
Where do you think we are as a club?

I think we're in a bad place

- An owner who only cares about money and has no interest or knowledge of football
- A board who's only interest is again money and who again no little about football and are happy to belittle/ignore fans and feed them some nonsene about points per pound ad overachievning, all whilst getting handsome payrises
- A manager who is power hungry, doesn't know what he's doing and doesn't in reality care about the club (based on the fact he'd have left if he did as clearly he's not delivering success) and also indulges the owner by focussing on profit
- Poor coaching
- Inadequate medical team
- Average youth team
- An ingrained deeply losing culture at the club where coming 4th is success
- 20 years of one man controlling everything, making it very vry hard for anyone new to come in and hit the ground running
- A club becoming less attractive to prospective players
- Poor commercial deals overall

[Niall_Quinn]

I do when I think more-extreme views are being expressed which I don't agree with. Isn't that what this place is for?

How can any view possibly be extreme in relation to Wenger, after what he has done? How long does this extreme shit being dumped on the fans by the likes of Kroenke, Gazidis, Kewsick and Wenger have to go on before its warranted to lob some of it back. Is there a dignity to dying bent over with your knickers around your ankles?

[Özim]

That's why GW is the way it is. What more is there to say about this club or this board or this manager when it has all been said 1,000 times before? And, contrary to what some are saying, there have been some very good debates about the club that have delved into the finer details. But how many ways can it be said? Arsenal is going through a rancid period, rotten at the core, dying in front of our eyes, but the past has built a massive legacy that will take time to be fully consumed and destroyed. People hanging on to that legacy is understandable I guess, because it's all that's left. But revelling in the fact a club like Arsenal remains "above average" just because we haven't melted away yet sticks in the throat and will attract a negative response.

If people don't want to go to games anymore, or even watch the games on TV, then a fan forum will have less and less pull. Most of us are here now, I suspect, because the place is familiar. A way to blow off steam. So having a mod that is constantly calling for reasoned debate is a farce. How can the last passengers on a sinking ship be expected to stand around on deck discussing the weather? Is it in any way odd that an increasing number of passengers are waving their fists at the bridge and calling the captain an utter cunt for DELIBERATELY steering the ship onto the rocks? Especially as the tickets cost an arm and a leg and luxury passage was promised by the First Lizard. Just so they could sell all the tickets. Fuck talking about the weather in reasoned tones, tbf.

It's a miracle anyone is here at all. In the end it goes to show that, whatever our positions, we must all be diehard Arsenal fans. Unlike the cunts in charge of the club.

Exactly, the views we're seeing reflect what's happening, and the dwindling numbers also do so, people have lost interest and moved on, the manager may not see it from his little bubble, but many people don't have the same interest in it, that's due to everything that's going on and what we're getting on and off the pitch.

I still come here as you say to vent frustration at the same old same old, in reality many conversations are the same but that again reflect what happens at Arsenal, nothing changes.

You can't blame posters for the lesser number of posters, you can however blame a club who don't care about it's fans or offering them any kind of value for money or any respect. This club is going to the dogs, irony is the owner, board and manager can't see it from their golden palace, the money is still rolling in, so what's the problem?

[Özim]

How can any view possibly be extreme in relation to Wenger, after what he has done? How long does this extreme shit being dumped on the fans by the likes of Kroenke, Gazidis, Kewsick and Wenger have to go on before its warranted to lob some of it back. Is there a dignity to dying bent over with your knickers around your ankles?

I don't get it either, this isn't some normal club where the manager is underachieving, it's everything else about this club as well, it's a monopoly, there's no incentive to do anything but make money and the whole setup is geared towards that and has no care for it's payng customer as they feel like there's plenty more where they came from if they decide to move on.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

As much as I think Letters can be a dick at times (:lol:) , I think it's harsh to blame him for GW's collapse. Sure, perhaps he could have done more to boost activity back when we actually had a semblance of an active community such as revamping this design and hosting content but as far as I'm aware this is more of a hobby for him so you can't really blame him here.

I think the entire concept of internet forums are dying out as more people take to social media platforms like twitter, facebook, YouTube to disseminate views and debate things they're into. The Arsenal fandom on twitter is massive (probably the biggest EPL one) and then you've also platforms like podcasts & Arsenal Fam TV which is huge now.

Plus the repetitiveness and abject predictability of Arsenal over the last decade has taken it's toll; there's only so many times people can moan about the exact same issues before they get bored of doing it.




- Inadequate medical team


Actually I think that's one area we've made some genuine improvements on, thanks in part to the club taking some good steps to rectify the ridiculous issues we used to have, such as hiring world class fitness coaches (Shad), leading muscle repair experts (That Japanese bloke) and also really investing into the therapy & conditioning facilities at the training centre (we fitted a cryotherapy chamber this summer and we've got other plans afoot).

We're at worst "average" now and no worse than most clubs when it comes to injuries.

[Letters]

I don't understand your point, when you posted we'd had a monumental collapse, you're hardly going to go in and praise him then, your post wasn't really particularly critical either, it was just posting the fact we'd collapsed.
It was a response to the assertion that "back in the day everyone supported him and only a few didn't rate the guy". Look at the replies in those threads. Also look at how there's some decent debate on those threads. We've lost some good posters. None have been banned, I'd welcome most of those back.


It's pretty clear you're a big fan of Wenger and have been for years, now sure you realise he's not that great anymore but you do jump to his defence often enough to suggest you still have great respect for him and always do mention what he did 12+ years ago.
I think I'll always have respect for the things he did for us in the early years. When I started going to games we were boring boring Arsenal, at one point we nearly gave up our season tickets it was so dull. The side Wenger transformed us into, he took us to places I never thought I'd see an Arsenal side go. And the fact we now expect title challenges every year is a reflection of that. That should be acknowledged. But it also should be acknowledged that he's past it and we'll never win the biggest prizes under him again. This is the Wenger Paradox, as I like to call it. He's the reason we expect to be right at the top of the game and the reason we aren't.

He gets credit for the stadium move because he was the one who raised our profile to the point where we could sell out a 60,000 seater stadium (according to Wiki our average home attendance in the thoroughly enjoyable 1992/3 season was 24,403).
And I think he did pretty well when we first moved and money was tight to steady the ship.

His control of the club now is worrying and it's disgraceful that he was offered a new contract for even more money in the summer. The fans are being ripped off but if they keep going more fool them. I don't like the way the whole sport has gone, I don't like having a board who care more about the balance sheet than what happens on the field and I don't like having a manger who can't deliver the biggest trophies when we have the resources to compete with anyone.

I'll argue against the more extreme views but I've long since abandoned the "Wenger In" camp, I don't think there are many left in that camp now.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The thing is the anti-Wenger sentiment is a more recent thing, back in the day everyone supported him and only a few didn't rate the guy (me being one of them) and these people were rounded on and ridiculed for having an opinion, often goaded with joke comments and ironically none of those posters (very much WUMs got banned).

Yes sure now people want Wenger out, not really a surprise though, it's the popular opinion now as noone in their right minds can possibly have a valid football argument for wanting to keep him on, I stayed on the right side personally by not getting personal or insulting other posters, despite insults being thrown at me, but I prefer it that way.

There's one guy in particular on here who hs goaded people for years and never got banned, why? Because he's always been pro Wenger and has got in with some of the more pro Wenger mods, he was just as much to blame for stuff as anyone else, yet he's still here, that tells it's own story. I'm not saying he should have been banned, I wouldn't go that that route personally, but if you're gonna ban some of those who have been, he definitely should have been on the list as well.

I'm entitled to my opinion, in football terms yes, I can't stand the guy, he's everything bad abut football today, look where we are because of him, he's destroying this club and I think he gets far too much credit as well, outide football I'm sure he's a nice enough guy, but I don't know him personally, all I see is a man who seems to lie to the fans, do the weirdest things just to prove people wrong and sees himself as untouchable. If you want an indication of how powerful Wenger is you don't need to look far, look at how Keswick behaved, he only did so because he clearly feels above everyone else there and can't be bothered to entertain their ridiculous ideas/questions (to him), Wenger is in the same position the only difference being he is a better speaker, a much better speaker, he does however see himself as some sort of messiah for the club.

People have humoured Wenger for far too long and when people treat you like some sort of god in a lot of people it makes them feel like one and they then feel superior, pretty much what has happened to Wenger, just listen to him talk and listen to how he's happy to blame the fans, only someone very very comfortable in their position would feel able to do that. He even went as far as defending Keswick after the AGM, he could have kept quiet and said the AGM is over etc etc, but no he defended the guy, unbelievable.

NQ is spot on with what he says, if someone kicks you in the teeth (not literally) you don't then get up and say don't worry about it, you're a great guy!

So your complaint is mainly that people were a bit unkind to you

Suck it up sweetheart you have no entitlement to have your opinion taken seriously. Plus what I’m saying is that on this particular board where I’ve been hsince 2011 I have consistently in that time thought he was the wrong guy for the job and wasn’t ridiculed for holding that view.

People who pay money to watch Arsenal week in, week out in the main didn’t agree with either of us back then. You’re entitled to think they were wrong, but they were equally entitled to think you were wrong.

[Letters]

As much as I think Letters can be a dick at times (:lol:)
That's a banning <_<


I think it's harsh to blame him for GW's collapse. Sure, perhaps he could have done more to boost activity back when we actually had a semblance of an active community such as revamping this design and hosting content but as far as I'm aware this is more of a hobby for him so you can't really blame him here.
Tbh I had big visions for this place, the point of moving to VBulliten was to give us control and make the messageboard just a part of a bigger site. Honestly, I don't have the get up and go or skills to really make that happen.


I think the entire concept of internet forums are dying out as more people take to social media platforms like twitter, facebook, YouTube to disseminate views and debate things they're into. The Arsenal fandom on twitter is massive (probably the biggest EPL one) and then you've also platforms like podcasts & Arsenal Fam TV which is huge now.
This is how I see it, and yes the stagnation at the club is a factor too. There isn't that much new or interesting to say in the endless Groundhog day.

[Cripps]

So your complaint is mainly that people were a bit unkind to you

Suck it up sweetheart you have no entitlement to have your opinion taken seriously.

By that logic no-one should have been banned in the first place

Thanks for agreeing

Next time just say that instead of taking the long way round.

[Letters]

I think we're in a bad place

- An owner who only cares about money and has no interest or knowledge of football
- A board who's only interest is again money and who again no little about football and are happy to belittle/ignore fans and feed them some nonsene about points per pound ad overachievning, all whilst getting handsome payrises
- A manager who is power hungry, doesn't know what he's doing and doesn't in reality care about the club (based on the fact he'd have left if he did as clearly he's not delivering success) and also indulges the owner by focussing on profit
- Poor coaching
- Inadequate medical team
- Average youth team
- An ingrained deeply losing culture at the club where coming 4th is success
- 20 years of one man controlling everything, making it very vry hard for anyone new to come in and hit the ground running
- A club becoming less attractive to prospective players
- Poor commercial deals overall

Hmm. Worryingly, I actually agree with a lot of that. I do think Wenger cares about the club, I think he's just too damn stubborn to realise he's not going to win the PL again, every season seems like an increasingly desperate double or quits.
And I don't think #WengerOut will fix much of that either, but it would at least be different and that is probably a good thing in and of itself.

[Özim]

So your complaint is mainly that people were a bit unkind to you

Suck it up sweetheart you have no entitlement to have your opinion taken seriously. Plus what I’m saying is that on this particular board where I’ve been hsince 2011 I have consistently in that time thought he was the wrong guy for the job and wasn’t ridiculed for holding that view.

People who pay money to watch Arsenal week in, week out in the main didn’t agree with either of us back then. You’re entitled to think they were wrong, but they were equally entitled to think you were wrong.

What complaint? I don't remember complaining I was jut adding my 20 pence worth.

Let's be fair you haven't really been particularly strong in your views, hence the reason you weren't ridiculed, those who put themselves out there more tend to get more abuse, moreover you didn't particularly seem to be someone who wanted Wenger out until recently, maybe you didn't think he was ideal but you certinly weren't obviously someone who thought he should be replaced.

Their entitled to their opinion, it's more this treating Wenger like some sort of god that's a bad thing, the we love Wenger stuff and all that, if you want to make someone think their untouchable and above everyone else then go ahead and treat them like they're a superior being which is what some Arsenal fans have done. He's a guy, who get paid a huge amount to do job, he's not Jesus and not selfless in his quest, there's plenty of people much more deserving of praise than him in the world.

Wenger is the way he is because people made him this way, he was never like that when he arrived, the board have certainly encourage it but so have the fans (they still do when they go after people who demonstrate and want him out).

[Niall_Quinn]

It was a response to the assertion that "back in the day everyone supported him and only a few didn't rate the guy". Look at the replies in those threads. Also look at how there's some decent debate on those threads. We've lost some good posters. None have been banned, I'd welcome most of those back.


I think I'll always have respect for the things he did for us in the early years. When I started going to games we were boring boring Arsenal, at one point we nearly gave up our season tickets it was so dull. The side Wenger transformed us into, he took us to places I never thought I'd see an Arsenal side go. And the fact we now expect title challenges every year is a reflection of that. That should be acknowledged. But it also should be acknowledged that he's past it and we'll never win the biggest prizes under him again. This is the Wenger Paradox, as I like to call it. He's the reason we expect to be right at the top of the game and the reason we aren't.

He gets credit for the stadium move because he was the one who raised our profile to the point where we could sell out a 60,000 seater stadium (according to Wiki our average home attendance in the thoroughly enjoyable 1992/3 season was 24,403).
And I think he did pretty well when we first moved and money was tight to steady the ship.

His control of the club now is worrying and it's disgraceful that he was offered a new contract for even more money in the summer. The fans are being ripped off but if they keep going more fool them. I don't like the way the whole sport has gone, I don't like having a board who care more about the balance sheet than what happens on the field and I don't like having a manger who can't deliver the biggest trophies when we have the resources to compete with anyone.

I'll argue against the more extreme views but I've long since abandoned the "Wenger In" camp, I don't think there are many left in that camp now.

Assuming you watched any of the recent AGM coverage or read some of the fallout, what would you define as an "extreme" view? You accept it's a disgrace Wenger got yet another contract. That makes perfect sense. In football, if you perform you keep your job, if you fail you get replaced. Except at this club where an "extreme" owner (ask the fans of any of the teams this cocksucker has hijacked) retains a failing manager for his own benefit and at the expense of the club. That would be fine if the owner was funding this shit show out of his own pocket. But he's still selling tickets and getting others to fund his profit trip. And you can advise every fan to stop paying, but you're missing the nature of what it means to be a fan, for many fans at least. This isn't a choice between Starbucks and Costa. This is a captive fanbase and the choice being presented is love it or leave it. Why should the fans leave just because some cunt has used his wife's money to hijack the club? I certainly wouldn't (and don't) give the cunt a penny. But what about the fans who go to Arsenal as part of their lifestyle routine and have been doing so for years? Should they become Man Utd fans because they'd get a better deal? Or just accept that things have changed and football for them is now to be dictated by the likes of Kroenke? Or are they allowed to try to hang on to their passion and stick two fingers up at the cunt who is trying to ruin what they hold valuable?

Who is the extremist here? Who genuinely possesses the extreme views?

[Niall_Quinn]

That's a banning <_<


Tbh I had big visions for this place, the point of moving to VBulliten was to give us control and make the messageboard just a part of a bigger site. Honestly, I don't have the get up and go or skills to really make that happen.


This is how I see it, and yes the stagnation at the club is a factor too. There isn't that much new or interesting to say in the endless Groundhog day.

I certainly wouldn't criticise you for setting up and maintaining a free resource for fans to come and spout off. But the request to be "reasonable" is, well, unreasonable.

[Niall_Quinn]

Hmm. Worryingly, I actually agree with a lot of that. I do think Wenger cares about the club, I think he's just too damn stubborn to realise he's not going to win the PL again, every season seems like an increasingly desperate double or quits.
And I don't think #WengerOut will fix much of that either, but it would at least be different and that is probably a good thing in and of itself.

The summer proved beyond all reasonable doubt he doesn't give a shit about the club. He'd have left if he did. He cares about control of the club. This much he has made clear. Laughing out the idea of a football director coming in to help him. Smacking down journalists and telling them things will be done his way, end of. Breaking his promise that he'd leave it to somebody else if he felt he could't progress things. Well how is dropping out of the CL and losing our best players (again) progressing things? He's a fraud and a liar, isn't he? Isn't that what he's demonstrated during his last round of contract shenanigans? A fraud and a liar that cares about what the club delivers to him, and - as we have yet again seen with their profit taking during the transfer window - doesn't give a shit about the ambitions of the fans who fund his little empire. That's another thing he said, if he felt he wasn't wanted he'd go. Well almost everyone wanted him to go by the end of last season. But what he really meant was Kroenke. If Kroenke wants him to go he will. Well duh. Bravo Wenger. If the rumours are true then Ivan wanted him out. So Wenger, ever conscious of delivering what people want, did an end run around the CEO and stitched up a new deal with Stan. That's how much Wenger cares about the club, he doesn't even have respect for his supposed boss. The one he helped appoint. Yeah, for sure, Wenger loves us all.

[Özim]

It was a response to the assertion that "back in the day everyone supported him and only a few didn't rate the guy". Look at the replies in those threads. Also look at how there's some decent debate on those threads. We've lost some good posters. None have been banned, I'd welcome most of those back.


I think I'll always have respect for the things he did for us in the early years. When I started going to games we were boring boring Arsenal, at one point we nearly gave up our season tickets it was so dull. The side Wenger transformed us into, he took us to places I never thought I'd see an Arsenal side go. And the fact we now expect title challenges every year is a reflection of that. That should be acknowledged. But it also should be acknowledged that he's past it and we'll never win the biggest prizes under him again. This is the Wenger Paradox, as I like to call it. He's the reason we expect to be right at the top of the game and the reason we aren't.

He gets credit for the stadium move because he was the one who raised our profile to the point where we could sell out a 60,000 seater stadium (according to Wiki our average home attendance in the thoroughly enjoyable 1992/3 season was 24,403).
And I think he did pretty well when we first moved and money was tight to steady the ship.

His control of the club now is worrying and it's disgraceful that he was offered a new contract for even more money in the summer. The fans are being ripped off but if they keep going more fool them. I don't like the way the whole sport has gone, I don't like having a board who care more about the balance sheet than what happens on the field and I don't like having a manger who can't deliver the biggest trophies when we have the resources to compete with anyone.

I'll argue against the more extreme views but I've long since abandoned the "Wenger In" camp, I don't think there are many left in that camp now.

I never said everyone supported Wenger, but certainly a large percentage were behind him back in the day, there were always a few who didn't (Elche being one).

I don't expect us to challenge for the title anymore, noone does, we'd like to but realise it's not realistic anymore, now all we wish for is something different, some excitement, hope at the beginning of the season, all talk of winning the big prizes has evaporated because we know we won't, so in effect he's lowered expectations to the point that now getting into the top 4 is our biggest hope.


That's a long time ago now, over 12 years since that FA Cup success, the last one with the great team, it's becoming a distant memory, nowadays when think about Arsenal it's not about that anymore, it's about the frustration seeing a club who make loads of money and take their fans for granted whilst delivering a sub standard product.

So you think we wouldn't have moved stadium without Wenger? With the money in the game I'm sure we would, morevoer you forget Wenger is a football manager (even if he isn't so much anymore), his job is to bring success on the pitch, what he was doing in the early days is his best in the job he was being paid for, he clearly loves football so it wasn't a hardship and he was handsomely paid, the fact he got success is great but he wasn't doing it to build a new stadium, he was doing it for himself. I don't see him as the reason for the stadium, sure the success may have fast tracked it somewhat but we'd probably have a new stadium by now anyway.

David Dein was looking at making the club bigger (originally by moving to Wembley) so that was on the cards, ultimately the board had to be willing to put themselves in huge debt for it and made an informated decision, it was a business decision.

[Özim]

The summer proved beyond all reasonable doubt he doesn't give a shit about the club. He'd have left if he did. He cares about control of the club. This much he has made clear. Laughing out the idea of a football director coming in to help him. Smacking down journalists and telling them things will be done his way, end of. Breaking his promise that he'd leave it to somebody else if he felt he could't progress things. Well how is dropping out of the CL and losing our best players (again) progressing things? He's a fraud and a liar, isn't he? Isn't that what he's demonstrated during his last round of contract shenanigans? A fraud and a liar that cares about what the club delivers to him, and - as we have yet again seen with their profit taking during the transfer window - doesn't give a shit about the ambitions of the fans who fund his little empire. That's another thing he said, if he felt he wasn't wanted he'd go. Well almost everyone wanted him to go by the end of last season. But what he really meant was Kroenke. If Kroenke wants him to go he will. Well duh. Bravo Wenger. If the rumours are true then Ivan wanted him out. So Wenger, ever conscious of delivering what people want, did an end run around the CEO and stitched up a new deal with Stan. That's how much Wenger cares about the club, he doesn't even have respect for his supposed boss. The one he helped appoint. Yeah, for sure, Wenger loves us all.

Spot on, I don't buy the ascertion he loves the club anymore, it's about power, loving what he does and probably enjoying his profile (and the money no doubt, but he's made so much from Arsenal that's less of an issue now)

Wenger is a lucky guy, a job for life, earning megabucks, doing whatever he wants, controlling everything with no questions, even being able to go above those who are suppose to be his boss, there's isn't another man in football who has had it that easy, Arsenal is unique in that respect, a big club where success is a distant 4th and where 4th place is the holy grail and when that even when the holy grail isn't reached a payrise is waiting just round the corner.

If I wanted to be successful, I would never move to Arsenal as a player, if I wanted to be rewarded for failure and to have an easy life I would, just ask Walcott, he'll tell you what a lovely life it is.

We do have one goal outside profits, to replicate the Leicester model :lol:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

By that logic no-one should have been banned in the first place

Thanks for agreeing

Next time just say that instead of taking the long way round.

Depends what they were banned for

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

What complaint? I don't remember complaining I was jut adding my 20 pence worth.

Let's be fair you haven't really been particularly strong in your views, hence the reason you weren't ridiculed, those who put themselves out there more tend to get more abuse, moreover you didn't particularly seem to be someone who wanted Wenger out until recently, maybe you didn't think he was ideal but you certinly weren't obviously someone who thought he should be replaced.

Their entitled to their opinion, it's more this treating Wenger like some sort of god that's a bad thing, the we love Wenger stuff and all that, if you want to make someone think their untouchable and above everyone else then go ahead and treat them like they're a superior being which is what some Arsenal fans have done. He's a guy, who get paid a huge amount to do job, he's not Jesus and not selfless in his quest, there's plenty of people much more deserving of praise than him in the world.

Wenger is the way he is because people made him this way, he was never like that when he arrived, the board have certainly encourage it but so have the fans (they still do when they go after people who demonstrate and want him out).

If Wenger had been deified to any real extent then the people who supported him six years ago wouldn’t have turned against him now.

There are a few who do think he is incapable of wrong doing, but such people are what Nietzsche would call untermensch (not to be mistaken with the Nazi use of that word to refer to Jews, gypsies etc). Not enough of them to merit any real serious discussion.

No the difference was I didn’t start going round insulting the fan base or calling Wenger the worst manager the club has ever had. Not because I was frightened of provoking anyone, but because I don’t personally believe either things.

But from 2012 I pushed for Klopp to replace Wenger as well as mentioning other names. Did I sometimes get people accuse me of reacting to bad results? Yes but of course I was....

[Niall_Quinn]

Spot on, I don't buy the ascertion he loves the club anymore, it's about power, loving what he does and probably enjoying his profile (and the money no doubt, but he's made so much from Arsenal that's less of an issue now)

Wenger is a lucky guy, a job for life, earning megabucks, doing whatever he wants, controlling everything with no questions, even being able to go above those who are suppose to be his boss, there's isn't another man in football who has had it that easy, Arsenal is unique in that respect, a big club where success is a distant 4th and where 4th place is the holy grail and when that even when the holy grail isn't reached a payrise is waiting just round the corner.

If I wanted to be successful, I would never move to Arsenal as a player, if I wanted to be rewarded for failure and to have an easy life I would, just ask Walcott, he'll tell you what a lovely life it is.

We do have one goal outside profits, to replicate the Leicester model :lol:

And that's not even close to being an extreme view because look at the glaring evidence.

As you say - Theo Walcott.

But what about players with ambition? Cesc, RvC, Ozil, Alexis. Even Ox, who could have easily done a Theo. All gone or looking for the exit - even when big money has been put on the table.

Who creates the environment where mediocrity is a free ride for your whole career? The guy who has had a free ride for over a decade.

This is all so obvious and the only aspect that is extreme is the amount of time fans have put up with it.

Lacazette is next. Wenger is already mismanaging him in the most ridiculous manner. He'll be looking for the exit in a couple of seasons, all the while bitterly regretting he ever came here. You could see it all over his face when he got subbed, again, on the weekend.

And who will want to come? Losers. Not winners.

It's crazy to even have to talk about this. The guy is fucking up on every front and needs to be sacked, urgently, before any more damage can be done. It's just crazy we are in this situation and scary that Wenger can't see it and, despite the mountain of evidence in front of him, thinks he can reverse the ongoing decline. He won't change anything, won't accept help, won't learn from his mistakes and can't even recognise the problems. This is the worst man imaginable to be in charge of a competitive sports team. If anyone thinks that's an "extreme" opinion they should explain why, without bringing up what happened over a decade ago and somehow suggesting any of that is relevant to what's happening here and now.

[GP]

From my point of view the Jedi are evil.

[Niall_Quinn]

Depends what they were banned for

Touching Letters in an inappropriate way.

[Niall_Quinn]

From my point of view the Jedi are evil.

That's a stark opinion that doesn't take any of the subtleties into account.

[GP]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Touching Letters in an inappropriate way.

Didn’t know Kevin Spacey used to post here

Did he mistake him by his height for a minor?

[Niall_Quinn]

Didn’t know Kevin Spacey used to post here

Did he mistake him by his height for a minor?

Letters is like a red T-shirt to a bull.

[Letters]

Assuming you watched any of the recent AGM coverage or read some of the fallout, what would you define as an "extreme" view? You accept it's a disgrace Wenger got yet another contract. That makes perfect sense. In football, if you perform you keep your job, if you fail you get replaced. Except at this club where an "extreme" owner (ask the fans of any of the teams this cocksucker has hijacked) retains a failing manager for his own benefit and at the expense of the club. That would be fine if the owner was funding this shit show out of his own pocket. But he's still selling tickets and getting others to fund his profit trip. And you can advise every fan to stop paying, but you're missing the nature of what it means to be a fan, for many fans at least. This isn't a choice between Starbucks and Costa. This is a captive fanbase and the choice being presented is love it or leave it. Why should the fans leave just because some cunt has used his wife's money to hijack the club? I certainly wouldn't (and don't) give the cunt a penny. But what about the fans who go to Arsenal as part of their lifestyle routine and have been doing so for years? Should they become Man Utd fans because they'd get a better deal? Or just accept that things have changed and football for them is now to be dictated by the likes of Kroenke? Or are they allowed to try to hang on to their passion and stick two fingers up at the cunt who is trying to ruin what they hold valuable?

Who is the extremist here? Who genuinely possesses the extreme views?

I'd say that things like "Another pathetic result" from Zim after a win is pretty extreme.
Pathetic performance, maybe, but result? Silly.
I think it's extreme to say that we have an "awful manager" and an "average squad". Those cannot both be simultaneously true given the league positions and FA Cup wins in the last 4 years.
I think you've said he's the "worst manager in football" which seems extreme to me and I think someone might have said he's the worst manager we've ever had. I might have made that last one up but I think I saw it.
To me those are all extreme views which I would argue against.
But, and let me say this slowly, doing so does not mean I am "sucking Wenger's cock" (as tasty as it admittedly is).
It doesn't mean I'm secretly Wenger In as you and Zim seem to believe.
And it doesn't mean I think Wenger is the "bees knees" (recent quote from you).
And, for balance, I think Ty is pretty extreme in the other direction although we don't have any posters like that on here. I am often accused of being like that but I think in your more serious moments must realise I'm not.

I recently argued against Zim when he said that it doesn't matter how Wenger does. It does. He would be replaced if he failed, but he hasn't. Unfortunately it is not you or I who defined what failure is, it's the board and it's clear what their priorities are. I know what it's like to be a fan, I was a season ticket for over 20 years. And you're right, you can't just go to another shop. But you can stop shopping, watches the games on telly if you want - or, better, internet streams if you still can - but stop buying tickets, stop buying the shirts. You don't have to stop supporting the club. If you miss the atmosphere then go watch the games in a pub with the same mates you used to go to games with. You can protest outside the ground but what do they care about that? You can protest inside but to do they they've got your money so will they care then? If we agree they only care about money then that is the only thing we, the fanbase, can do to affect change. We have the collective power. Trouble is there are too many tourists anyway to make up the numbers so I don't think it's realistic but I don't know what else can be done to affect change.

[Letters]

Their entitled to their opinion, it's more this treating Wenger like some sort of god that's a bad thing, the we love Wenger stuff and all that.

This is the straw man. Literally no-one does that on here. You may accuse me of doing so because I don't agree with your more extreme views about him but if you look at what I'm actually writing you'll find I'm not. Nor is anyone else.

[Cripps]

I recently argued against Zim when he said that it doesn't matter how Wenger does. It does. He would be replaced if he failed, but he hasn't.

Wrong.

He failed last season. His objective has always been top 4. He failed and still got a new contract.

I make zimm right.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'd say that things like "Another pathetic result" from Zim after a win is pretty extreme.
Pathetic performance, maybe, but result? Silly.
I think it's extreme to say that we have an "awful manager" and an "average squad". Those cannot both be simultaneously true given the league positions and FA Cup wins in the last 4 years.
I think you've said he's the "worst manager in football" which seems extreme to me and I think someone might have said he's the worst manager we've ever had. I might have made that last one up but I think I saw it.
To me those are all extreme views which I would argue against.
But, and let me say this slowly, doing so does not mean I am "sucking Wenger's cock" (as tasty as it admittedly is).
It doesn't mean I'm secretly Wenger In as you and Zim seem to believe.
And it doesn't mean I think Wenger is the "bees knees" (recent quote from you).
And, for balance, I think Ty is pretty extreme in the other direction although we don't have any posters like that on here. I am often accused of being like that but I think in your more serious moments must realise I'm not.

I recently argued against Zim when he said that it doesn't matter how Wenger does. It does. He would be replaced if he failed, but he hasn't. Unfortunately it is not you or I who defined what failure is, it's the board and it's clear what their priorities are. I know what it's like to be a fan, I was a season ticket for over 20 years. And you're right, you can't just go to another shop. But you can stop shopping, watches the games on telly if you want - or, better, internet streams if you still can - but stop buying tickets, stop buying the shirts. You don't have to stop supporting the club. If you miss the atmosphere then go watch the games in a pub with the same mates you used to go to games with. You can protest outside the ground but what do they care about that? You can protest inside but to do they they've got your money so will they care then? If we agree they only care about money then that is the only thing we, the fanbase, can do to affect change. We have the collective power. Trouble is there are too many tourists anyway to make up the numbers so I don't think it's realistic but I don't know what else can be done to affect change.

I see very little debate being initiated by you regarding the problems at the club. I do see you jump in on an almost routine basis whenever you feel like an "extreme" point has been made. Well, I was discussing a pretty fucking extreme point with other posters, in this thread I think, relating to Ivan the Lizard claiming we've over-performed over the last few seasons in comparison to the top clubs. What utter nonsense and frivolous wordplay. Surely extreme if you compare it to an innocuous comment such as , "pathetic result", surely? I really wonder why the latter seems to bother you more than the former, or at least why you choose to direct fire at a frustrated fan rather than the source of the frustration. You can state you want Wenger gone and you can agree the club is being run with the wrong motives, fairly easy things to agree with as they are obvious. But it doesn't tally with your behavioural pattern of diving in in defence of the "extreme" viewpoints targeted at Wenger. Except maybe in one context. Could it be Wenger himself, aside from him being the Arsenal manager, that you are seeking to defend? Perhaps you have some deep respect for the guy and you find it offensive when he's criticised in certain ways? Fine. But then comes the manner of your defence. You tend to belittle the people you argue against. Which is why I do the same thing to you, btw, but don't do it to other posters. One liners with a sarcastic smiley, the rolling eyes, the head slap, the sheer effort taken to dig out stuff from the past so you can paint people as conflicted, almost as if it is a crime to reconsider or have a change of mind. And the other stuff I already mentioned. You want other people to be reasonable but often you are very unreasonable and provocative and, some might say, extreme yourself. And so am I, but as an example, if I'm extreme it doesn't give you a pass to be the same if you then go around calling for others to be reasonable.

[Letters]

Wrong.

He failed last season. His objective has always been top 4. He failed and still got a new contract.

I make zimm right.

Well. Clearly that isn't the objective the board set him then. The money kept rolling in as he always has, he kept his job.

[Niall_Quinn]

And the "worst manager in football" thing. There are several recent posts I've made in this thread to support my view. I genuinely do believe he's the worst manager in football, at least in terms of the managers I'm familiar with. I guess there might be some even bigger fuck-up out there I haven't heard of. I wonder how Wenger would fare if he didn't have the considerable resources of Arsenal at his command at was managing at a club battling relegation. All those end of season crunch matches. I wonder who could present an honest argument to counter the suggestion it would be Wenger's club going down. A sure fire thing surely. A decade of his well stocked squad of internationals collapsing in the home stretch should be all the evidence anyone needs. The faces change, the outcome is the same. Who could be to blame and what other manager has managed to survive so long while consistently failing to reach the basic expectations of the fans, which after all are only what should be the basic expectations of any supposed top level club?

I stand by it. I view Wenger as the worst manager in football today given his track record over the last 10 years. That's not to say I don't think he was an excellent manager back in the day. But he either hasn't moved (an inch) with the times or he's had some sort of brain issue and now can't manage a nine figure squad (that causes you to be offended when they are tagged as average) to within telescopic view of a title. Even when Leicester City are the main rivals and all our traditional opponents are in turmoil. The evidence really is quite overwhelming.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well. Clearly that isn't the objective the board set him then. The money kept rolling in as he always has, he kept his job.

So you are agreeing Wenger is a fraud and a liar? Because even now he stands up and says the club is ambitious and does everything it can to compete at the top level. But you accept the club is being run for different motives. Or are you saying Wenger is not aware of the real motives? That he's being kept in the dark by Kroenke and is a victim in all of this?

[Cripps]

Well. Clearly that isn't the objective the board set him then. The money kept rolling in as he always has, he kept his job.

:haha: you can't make this up. Thanks for proving my point. Forever defending :haha: :haha:

[Cripps]

I see very little debate being initiated by you regarding the problems at the club. I do see you jump in on an almost routine basis whenever you feel like an "extreme" point has been made. Well, I was discussing a pretty fucking extreme point with other posters, in this thread I think, relating to Ivan the Lizard claiming we've over-performed over the last few seasons in comparison to the top clubs. What utter nonsense and frivolous wordplay. Surely extreme if you compare it to an innocuous comment such as , "pathetic result", surely? I really wonder why the latter seems to bother you more than the former, or at least why you choose to direct fire at a frustrated fan rather than the source of the frustration. You can state you want Wenger gone and you can agree the club is being run with the wrong motives, fairly easy things to agree with as they are obvious. But it doesn't tally with your behavioural pattern of diving in in defence of the "extreme" viewpoints targeted at Wenger. Except maybe in one context. Could it be Wenger himself, aside from him being the Arsenal manager, that you are seeking to defend? Perhaps you have some deep respect for the guy and you find it offensive when he's criticised in certain ways? Fine. But then comes the manner of your defence. You tend to belittle the people you argue against. Which is why I do the same thing to you, btw, but don't do it to other posters. One liners with a sarcastic smiley, the rolling eyes, the head slap, the sheer effort taken to dig out stuff from the past so you can paint people as conflicted, almost as if it is a crime to reconsider or have a change of mind. And the other stuff I already mentioned. You want other people to be reasonable but often you are very unreasonable and provocative and, some might say, extreme yourself. And so am I, but as an example, if I'm extreme it doesn't give you a pass to be the same if you then go around calling for others to be reasonable.

NQ :bow:

The people's champion :bow:

The real mod :bow:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I suspect Cripps is back posting now so no need for this discussion really.

[Letters]

I see very little debate being initiated by you regarding the problems at the club. I do see you jump in on an almost routine basis whenever you feel like an "extreme" point has been made. Well, I was discussing a pretty fucking extreme point with other posters, in this thread I think, relating to Ivan the Lizard claiming we've over-performed over the last few seasons in comparison to the top clubs. What utter nonsense and frivolous wordplay. Surely extreme if you compare it to an innocuous comment such as , "pathetic result", surely? I really wonder why the latter seems to bother you more than the former, or at least why you choose to direct fire at a frustrated fan rather than the source of the frustration.
I don't see there's much to debate in the former. Yes, it's a stupid thing for Ivan to say but he's not posting on here. If you posted about it and said it was a ridiculous thing to say then I probably don't have much to add to that.
But the latter I completely disagree with so I said so. So did you actually in the same thread.


You can state you want Wenger gone and you can agree the club is being run with the wrong motives, fairly easy things to agree with as they are obvious. But it doesn't tally with your behavioural pattern of diving in in defence of the "extreme" viewpoints targeted at Wenger. Except maybe in one context. Could it be Wenger himself, aside from him being the Arsenal manager, that you are seeking to defend? Perhaps you have some deep respect for the guy and you find it offensive when he's criticised in certain ways?
I can want Wenger gone without thinking he's the worst manager in football, or "awful" or the worst manager we've ever had. So yes, I will dive in and respond to things like that because I think they're nonsense. I can think that while also thinking he should be sacked.


Fine. But then comes the manner of your defence. You tend to belittle the people you argue against. Which is why I do the same thing to you, btw, but don't do it to other posters. One liners with a sarcastic smiley, the rolling eyes, the head slap
Guilty as charged at times but I do often take the time to reply in a more meaningful way and tend to get howls of derision and straw man arguments back.


the sheer effort taken to dig out stuff from the past so you can paint people as conflicted, almost as if it is a crime to reconsider or have a change of mind.
No, that isn't a crime. But if people say they don't care about the FA Cup it is relevant to remind them how they reacted when we won it, for example. It's perfectly valid to look at what people say over time. People can do the same with my posts if they think I'm contradicting myself.


And the other stuff I already mentioned. You want other people to be reasonable but often you are very unreasonable and provocative and, some might say, extreme yourself. And so am I, but as an example, if I'm extreme it doesn't give you a pass to be the same if you then go around calling for others to be reasonable.

Provocative, yes sometimes. I don't think unreasonable though. I try and back up my opinions with facts,

[Letters]

:haha: you can't make this up. Thanks for proving my point. Forever defending :haha: :haha:

For the hard of thinking, that is a criticism of the targets the board is setting Wenger, not a defence of Wenger :good:

[Letters]

So you are agreeing Wenger is a fraud and a liar? Because even now he stands up and says the club is ambitious and does everything it can to compete at the top level. But you accept the club is being run for different motives. Or are you saying Wenger is not aware of the real motives? That he's being kept in the dark by Kroenke and is a victim in all of this?

Come on. Wenger's not going to stand up in front of the press and say "Quite frankly, the board couldn't give a monkeys how we do so long as the money keeps rolling in."
I'm sure he knows it's true so yes, I guess you could say he's lying but only in the way anyone in that position would say the diplomatic thing.

[Letters]

I suspect Cripps is back posting now so no need for this discussion really.

:ilt:

[Cripps]

For the hard of thinking, that is a criticism of the targets the board is setting Wenger, not a defence of Wenger :good:

:console:

[Niall_Quinn]

You're just doing it again. Defending Wenger at every turn, but maybe you can't see it. There's always a perfectly reasonable explanation for his deceit, his failure, his bullshit. If you know it's a lie but it costs you to call it a lie, at least don't repeat the lie. And, FFS, don't embellish. Maybe you haven't listened to Wenger's latest round of bullshit from the AGM. Fans are running around agreeing what a decent bloke Wenger is, how he's a human shield for the board. How it's so unfair. That's how you come across too. But the evidence tells us that Wenger is a liar and up to his neck in it with the very same scumbags that are running the club into the ground.

Here's my take. Kroenke and Wenger are devious cunts, genuinely self absorbed, self interested, almost psychopathic manipulators. The real human shield used to be Peter Hill Wood, rolled out to take the bullets that would otherwise have been aimed and Silent Stan and his sidekick Wenger. And because Hill Wood's brain always comes a distant third in a straight race with his mouth and sense of superiority, he's guaranteed to be a lead magnet. Well I guess they saw this and then, instead of correcting the mistake, they hire something even better - Keswick. A guy who was born in a boardroom, not able to conduct himself in a boardroom? Pull the other one. Everyone is being played nicely. And they are all in it together. Particularly this Wenger bloke you feel compelled to defend. Particularly him.

What does John Cross have to say about all this? Oh look, Kroenke loves Arsenal and isn't silent at all, Wenger is a class act, and Keswick is a buffoon. They love it when a plan comes together.

[Niall_Quinn]

BTW, the link I added to a video of Wenger's AGM speech (posted earlier in this thread)...

...was from 2011.

Not sure if nobody bothered looking or if people just didn't notice. But there he is, all the same old bullshit being trotted out. A decent bloke who loves the club... Let me tell you, this squad will be successful... The future looks bright... I am 100% ready to challenge, more enthusiastic and focused than ever...

I mean, yawn. He's making the same speech six years later, we've dropped out of the CL, by the summer we'll have the most mediocre squad we've had in years having lost our best players again, this time without even the usual profit. And the atmosphere at the club and among the fans is as toxic as it has ever been. But same speech, same promises. And some fans are still buying this? I wish I knew how to hook up with them so I could sell them time travel machines and invisibility cloaks and party packs of empty promises.

[Cripps]

You're just doing it again. Defending Wenger at every turn

What's hilarious is that he can't see it :haha:

[Letters]

You're just doing it again. Defending Wenger at every turn, but maybe you can't see it.

There's nothing to see.
There are very few managers if any who tell the truth in these situations. It's like when Wenger comes out saying that <insert player here> is class, or we showed great spirit or whatever.
All balls, obvious balls. But is it only Wenger who does it? Of course not. Is he worse than the others? Arguably.

[Özim]

If Wenger had been deified to any real extent then the people who supported him six years ago wouldn’t have turned against him now.

There are a few who do think he is incapable of wrong doing, but such people are what Nietzsche would call untermensch (not to be mistaken with the Nazi use of that word to refer to Jews, gypsies etc). Not enough of them to merit any real serious discussion.

No the difference was I didn’t start going round insulting the fan base or calling Wenger the worst manager the club has ever had. Not because I was frightened of provoking anyone, but because I don’t personally believe either things.

But from 2012 I pushed for Klopp to replace Wenger as well as mentioning other names. Did I sometimes get people accuse me of reacting to bad results? Yes but of course I was....

I never insulted the fan base, all I said was that whilst the fans keep going and don't really kick up a massive fus, nothing will change and it won't, surely you can see that. As for Wenger, yes I do think all in he is an awful manager (maybe not the worst ever) but a bad one, that's taking everything into consideration of course, the lies, the football, the claims of success because we came 3rd/4th, the patronising words etc etc the list goes on, this isn't some guy just managing the team and doing a bad job, this is the guy managing the club and doing a bad job on the grand scheme of things, if he wasn't the fans wouldn't be unhappy.

Yes perhaps you did, but these were very never particularly convincing calls for a new manager, you'd say that Klopp could replace Wenger and you'd like him to, without really saying Wenger needs to go because he's doing a poor job, you've ramped up your opinion in the last couple years for sure, but before that it never seemed a particularly urgent call for a new manager.

[Özim]

And that's not even close to being an extreme view because look at the glaring evidence.

As you say - Theo Walcott.

But what about players with ambition? Cesc, RvC, Ozil, Alexis. Even Ox, who could have easily done a Theo. All gone or looking for the exit - even when big money has been put on the table.

Who creates the environment where mediocrity is a free ride for your whole career? The guy who has had a free ride for over a decade.

This is all so obvious and the only aspect that is extreme is the amount of time fans have put up with it.

Lacazette is next. Wenger is already mismanaging him in the most ridiculous manner. He'll be looking for the exit in a couple of seasons, all the while bitterly regretting he ever came here. You could see it all over his face when he got subbed, again, on the weekend.

And who will want to come? Losers. Not winners.

It's crazy to even have to talk about this. The guy is fucking up on every front and needs to be sacked, urgently, before any more damage can be done. It's just crazy we are in this situation and scary that Wenger can't see it and, despite the mountain of evidence in front of him, thinks he can reverse the ongoing decline. He won't change anything, won't accept help, won't learn from his mistakes and can't even recognise the problems. This is the worst man imaginable to be in charge of a competitive sports team. If anyone thinks that's an "extreme" opinion they should explain why, without bringing up what happened over a decade ago and somehow suggesting any of that is relevant to what's happening here and now.

Exactly and that's why I feel he's an awful manager, stuff like this together with his behaviour towards fans, hollow words and claims of success, it's not just the football (which in itself is boring) or the results which are often scraped wins, it's the whole package.

[Özim]

I'd say that things like "Another pathetic result" from Zim after a win is pretty extreme.
Pathetic performance, maybe, but result? Silly.
I think it's extreme to say that we have an "awful manager" and an "average squad". Those cannot both be simultaneously true given the league positions and FA Cup wins in the last 4 years.
I think you've said he's the "worst manager in football" which seems extreme to me and I think someone might have said he's the worst manager we've ever had. I might have made that last one up but I think I saw it.
To me those are all extreme views which I would argue against.
But, and let me say this slowly, doing so does not mean I am "sucking Wenger's cock" (as tasty as it admittedly is).
It doesn't mean I'm secretly Wenger In as you and Zim seem to believe.
And it doesn't mean I think Wenger is the "bees knees" (recent quote from you).
And, for balance, I think Ty is pretty extreme in the other direction although we don't have any posters like that on here. I am often accused of being like that but I think in your more serious moments must realise I'm not.

I recently argued against Zim when he said that it doesn't matter how Wenger does. It does. He would be replaced if he failed, but he hasn't. Unfortunately it is not you or I who defined what failure is, it's the board and it's clear what their priorities are. I know what it's like to be a fan, I was a season ticket for over 20 years. And you're right, you can't just go to another shop. But you can stop shopping, watches the games on telly if you want - or, better, internet streams if you still can - but stop buying tickets, stop buying the shirts. You don't have to stop supporting the club. If you miss the atmosphere then go watch the games in a pub with the same mates you used to go to games with. You can protest outside the ground but what do they care about that? You can protest inside but to do they they've got your money so will they care then? If we agree they only care about money then that is the only thing we, the fanbase, can do to affect change. We have the collective power. Trouble is there are too many tourists anyway to make up the numbers so I don't think it's realistic but I don't know what else can be done to affect change.

Let me explain that comment, I felt it was pathetic because yet again it was another scraped win, a scraped win in a long line of them, most of the time now we win but in reality the game could have gone either way, unconvincing, Swansea had their chance to go 2-0 and could have got a 2-2 but they didn't, we scraped to a win like we often do, rather than winning by 3 or 4 goals (which rarely seems to happen).

As for Wenger, he's not delivering anything, maybe it's the way he talks or maybe it's the fact Kroenke doesn't care about football and only about profits, or maybe it's the fact the stadium is largely full (despite the sky high prices and poor entertainment), the latter is due more to fan loyalty and tourists who think it's fashionable to come to the Emirates rathe than Wenger.

What's clear is he's not delivering in any true sense, the owner might be happy, fact is though he would be under almsot any manager because the money will keep rolling in at Arsenal, it's the nature of the club, full houses are a gimme, it would be hard not to deliver that.

[Özim]

This is the straw man. Literally no-one does that on here. You may accuse me of doing so because I don't agree with your more extreme views about him but if you look at what I'm actually writing you'll find I'm not. Nor is anyone else.

I didn't say it was anyone on here, but there are plenty of peope who go to matches who seem him as irreplaceable, deflect the blame onto others and think it's not his fault, to them he's amazing, untouchable...ignoring that though I was referring to the years and years he's been praised and credited for all the things he's done, even when it's been going wrong getting little criticism with many preferring to blame the money in the game, the owner, the referees etc etc.

[Özim]

There's nothing to see.
There are very few managers if any who tell the truth in these situations. It's like when Wenger comes out saying that <insert player here> is class, or we showed great spirit or whatever.
All balls, obvious balls. But is it only Wenger who does it? Of course not. Is he worse than the others? Arguably.

That's a copout, very few managers treat fans like Wenger does, or indeed point the finger at them, they know it's a bad idea, at Arsenal though you can point the finger at the fans with no repercussions and actually have some people agree it's their fault, it's totally ridiculous!

The amount of nonsense he comes out with though, not sure there's many managers out there who speak so much rubbish, he has people looking at each in disbelief at some of the stuff he says, defending Keswick the other day sums him up, the guy could easily refrain from commenting (easy to do) but know instead he decides to defend Keswick, unbelievable!

We've been told a lot of things over the years, how much has actuallly come to fruition, his condascending, pratronising manner doesn't help either, he talks like he always knows best, despite evidence to the contrary, some of the mistkes he makes wouldn't be made by a pub team manager.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

More importantly though unless you’re a snowflake little girl, it shouldn’t even matter what Letters said

And I think considering he’s given you a platform to air your views, a little mockery even if you think the mockery itself doesn’t make sense shouldn’t really be harmful.

Letters to my knowledge used to be Wenger in up to 2016, and then thought fuck it this isn’t working. He’s come late to the party.....,but it seems bizarre to me that you’re accusing him of clamping down on what you’re posting and then constantly questioning him for expressing his own views.

Even if I think my opinions could only be disagreed with by an absolute imbecile, I don’t resent people for disagreeing or even being disdainful.

[Niall_Quinn]

More importantly though unless you’re a snowflake little girl, it shouldn’t even matter what Letters said

And I think considering he’s given you a platform to air your views, a little mockery even if you think the mockery itself doesn’t make sense shouldn’t really be harmful.

Letters to my knowledge used to be Wenger in up to 2016, and then thought fuck it this isn’t working. He’s come late to the party.....,but it seems bizarre to me that you’re accusing him of clamping down on what your posting and then constantly questioning him for expressing his own views.

Even if I think my opinions could only be disagreed with by an absolute imbecile, I don’t resent people for disagreeing or even being disdainful.

You said "your" :haha:

[Cripps]

Herbets still the spokesperson for apologists and pops up playing devils advocate to appease the Wenger in lot I see

Still secretly a Wenger fan :console:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Herbets still the spokesperson for apologists and pops up playing devils advocate to appease the Wenger in lot I see

Still secretly a Wenger fan :console:

Oh dear....whinge like a child and then make childish arguments

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You said "your" :haha:

I had to re-read all of that to find it you filthy pedant

[Letters]

Let me explain that comment, I felt it was pathetic because yet again it was another scraped win, a scraped win in a long line of them, most of the time now we win but in reality the game could have gone either way, unconvincing, Swansea had their chance to go 2-0 and could have got a 2-2 but they didn't, we scraped to a win like we often do, rather than winning by 3 or 4 goals (which rarely seems to happen).

As for Wenger, he's not delivering anything, maybe it's the way he talks or maybe it's the fact Kroenke doesn't care about football and only about profits, or maybe it's the fact the stadium is largely full (despite the sky high prices and poor entertainment), the latter is due more to fan loyalty and tourists who think it's fashionable to come to the Emirates rathe than Wenger.

What's clear is he's not delivering in any true sense, the owner might be happy, fact is though he would be under almsot any manager because the money will keep rolling in at Arsenal, it's the nature of the club, full houses are a gimme, it would be hard not to deliver that.
We've got away with a few recently, I don't think in general that's been true this season. After a shaky start we won 5 out of 6 games by more than one clear goal, the 6th was Chelsea where by all accounts we played well.
Since then we lost to Watford and scraped a couple (by which I mean we won by a single goal) in between which was the Everton game where we were good, against a poor side, admittedly.
So I don't think there has really been a long line of scraped wins as you claim.

Wenger is delivering what the board demand, which is money rolling in. Your last paragraph is what LDG was arguing, keep Wenger until the board piss off because the money would keep rolling in even if we're in mid-table, if Wenger leaves then who knows who they will replace him with and Wenger will at least keep us in and around the top 4. I don't particularly agree, I would just welcome a change now, it may reignite my interest somewhat, but it's an interesting point. I don't know if full houses are a gimme. Already it's noticeably easier to get tickets for games - I'll admit here I don't try but there are clear empty seats in the stadium. If we dropped into mid-table or worse would people keep paying these ridiculous prices? As I said, in the 92/93 season our average home attendance was around 24,000. And that was the season we won both domestic trophies, but the league form was so abysmal and the football so awful people stopped going.

[Özim]

We've got away with a few recently, I don't think in general that's been true this season. After a shaky start we won 5 out of 6 games by more than one clear goal, the 6th was Chelsea where by all accounts we played well.
Since then we lost to Watford and scraped a couple (by which I mean we won by a single goal) in between which was the Everton game where we were good, against a poor side, admittedly.
So I don't think there has really been a long line of scraped wins as you claim.

Wenger is delivering what the board demand, which is money rolling in. Your last paragraph is what LDG was arguing, keep Wenger until the board piss off because the money would keep rolling in even if we're in mid-table, if Wenger leaves then who knows who they will replace him with and Wenger will at least keep us in and around the top 4. I don't particularly agree, I would just welcome a change now, it may reignite my interest somewhat, but it's an interesting point. I don't know if full houses are a gimme. Already it's noticeably easier to get tickets for games - I'll admit here I don't try but there are clear empty seats in the stadium. If we dropped into mid-table or worse would people keep paying these ridiculous prices? As I said, in the 92/93 season our average home attendance was around 24,000. And that was the season we won both domestic trophies, but the league form was so abysmal and the football so awful people stopped going.

It's a general thing over the last few years, we've been very unconvincing even in unbeaten runs.

Any manager would keep the money rolling in IMO, we're not even in the CL and the money is still rolling in, even if we were in midtable (I don't believe we'd ever end up there even under a new manager anyway) we'd still have money rolling in, things are pretty bad at the moment considering everything going on, including the contempt towrds the fans from the owner and board and yet people still turn up in their hoards, so that tells you everything you need to know.

You forget that in 92/93 we prioritised the cups so didn't take the league seriously (playing weakened teams quite a few times) so it's no surprise attendances were down and results were poor, it worked as we won both cups though. It was a different time anyhow, nowadays attendances in the PL are almost alwya high, in those days Wimbledon use to get 6000 fans for their matches.

[Letters]

You forget that in 92/93 we prioritised the cups so didn't take the league seriously (playing weakened teams quite a few times) so it's no surprise attendances were down and results were poor, it worked as we won both cups though. It was a different time anyhow, nowadays attendances in the PL are almost alwya high, in those days Wimbledon use to get 6000 fans for their matches.
I don't forget that. I had a season ticket :lol:
It was bloody awful.
You're right that time has moved on though and I suspect attendances would be much higher if we did end up in mid table. That was also LDG's argument. His point was do you trust the board to replace Wenger with anyone who would actually push us on?
His argument was board out then Wenger out, once we have a board who actually want us to succeed on the field not in the bank balance.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You suspect strongly the loyalty shown by the Kroenkes towards Wenger is laziness

His total control of every footballing aspect is indulged because fuck it why not

At the risk of reading too much into things, Wenger saying that his position will be reviewed at the end of the season suggests he will go before the two years (more likely of his own choosing) if things become seriously fucked up.

What the definition of seriously fucked up is, is anyone’s guess

After that?. It’s likely the decision of what happens going forward will be in the hands of Ivan Gazidis. Absolute lickspittle toad with completely no self respect. That said it’s possible he’s at least smart enough to acknowledge what he doesn’t know and allow a director of football to come in to help recruit to replace all the key functions done by Wenger and therefore the next guy would be a head coach.

Will it change what we spend? Possibly not. Will it change our transfer strategy? Almost certainly

Although Kroenke is a class A cunt, his best feature will be on display. His total lack of willingness to involve himself in the proceedings.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

So I suspect strongly that a lot of delegation will be going on.

[Letters]

At the risk of reading too much into things, Wenger saying that his position will be reviewed at the end of the season suggests he will go before the two years (more likely of his own choosing) if things become seriously fucked up.

What the definition of seriously fucked up is, is anyone’s guess.
I wonder whether they'd have had the nerve to offer him a new contract had we not won the FA Cup last season.
Impossible to know what their targets for him really are.

[Niall_Quinn]

The one year review thing is a cynical way to extend his contract beyond 2 years and get out ahead of the inevitable backlash from fans who are thinking, fuck it, fine, he's here for 2 more years so we just live with it.

This is a war between the club and the fans. The fans want the obvious, success on the pitch, and the club wants the obvious, personal wealth for the fuckers surrounding the trough - Wenger included. So the club has to put on a stage performance to make it seem like they have an interest in sport. That's all this is. The politics of war.

[Letters]

Of course Wenger wants success on the pitch. He doesn't have the ability to deliver it (although he thinks he does) but I honestly think that's what he wants.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The one year review thing is a cynical way to extend his contract beyond 2 years and get out ahead of the inevitable backlash from fans who are thinking, fuck it, fine, he's here for 2 more years so we just live with it.

This is a war between the club and the fans. The fans want the obvious, success on the pitch, and the club wants the obvious, personal wealth for the fuckers surrounding the trough - Wenger included. So the club has to put on a stage performance to make it seem like they have an interest in sport. That's all this is. The politics of war.

I genuinely think it’s more a way of him sneaking out the back if it’s gets too much whilst convincing himself he has still always honoured his contracts.

His desire in remaining at Arsenal is having more control than any other manager and being frightened of retirement

If making money was his key target he’d have sold Sanchez in the summer. That he didn’t just shows that he’s a nit wit.

[Özim]

The one year review thing is a cynical way to extend his contract beyond 2 years and get out ahead of the inevitable backlash from fans who are thinking, fuck it, fine, he's here for 2 more years so we just live with it.

This is a war between the club and the fans. The fans want the obvious, success on the pitch, and the club wants the obvious, personal wealth for the fuckers surrounding the trough - Wenger included. So the club has to put on a stage performance to make it seem like they have an interest in sport. That's all this is. The politics of war.

I totally agree, the guy will probably sign another 2 year contract then, they're a crafty lot. The guy shows no signs of wanting to leave, last season was a disaster and he dangled the possibility of him being unsure about him staying when in reality he knew all along, that much was obvious, some people thought he could leave, I never thought he would, he loves the power too much, success isn't all that important to him (not on the pitch anyway).

[Özim]

Of course Wenger wants success on the pitch. He doesn't have the ability to deliver it (although he thinks he does) but I honestly think that's what he wants.

He doesn't do anything to deliver success, in the summer again he didn't sort out anything, to me that's not the work of a man who wants success that badly, if you did you'd go out and get the players signed up asap, he does the same every summer and when the same mistakes occur he sweeps them under the carpet by saying rubbish like this is te best group of players, they showed great spirit and togetherness, I believe in this group etc etc.

I don't believe the guy is that bothered about success on the pitch (I'm not saying he doesn't enjoy winning, just that he success isn't that important, his own words about the success of coming 4th show that), I think he's more bothered about the balance sheet, you don't go 12 years without a major honour and behave the way he does if you're desperate to win, he barely tries to make us successful, it's not even a case of not being able to, that's a cop out.

[Letters]

He signed Ozil, Cech, Sanchez and Lacazettte. We don't need players of that quality to bumble along.
I think he has tried to deliver success and the FA cup was a decent start but we haven't pushed on.
Agree he's not one to try and achieve success at any cost though

[Özim]

He signed Ozil, Cech, Sanchez and Lacazettte. We don't need players of that quality to bumble along.
I think he has tried to deliver success and the FA cup was a decent start but we haven't pushed on.
Agree he's not one to try and achieve success at any cost though

He's consistently not done enough in the transfer market, last summer, the summer before, Cech was a 2nd keeper at Chelsea, Sanchez was rejected at Barca and Ozil was surplus to requirements at Real, none of them were players at the top of their game and wanted by all the top sides, very good players no doubt but that doesn't prove a lot, that's 3 players in 12 years, that's not building a team, that's signing 3 players you like the look of without considering what your team need and what it's weaknesses are.

IMO those signings were more to keep us in and around the top than winning stuff, those players will never (and haven't) win you the big prizes without quality around them.

[Niall_Quinn]

Of course Wenger wants success on the pitch. He doesn't have the ability to deliver it (although he thinks he does) but I honestly think that's what he wants.

What does he SAY he wants (trophies, big signings) and what does he actually GET (renewed contracts, big money). I'll judge him on his actions, not his words.

[Niall_Quinn]

I genuinely think it’s more a way of him sneaking out the back if it’s gets too much whilst convincing himself he has still always honoured his contracts.

His desire in remaining at Arsenal is having more control than any other manager and being frightened of retirement

If making money was his key target he’d have sold Sanchez in the summer. That he didn’t just shows that he’s a nit wit.

I'd love to believe Kroenke gives a fuck beyond his basic business model which, in a nutshell is:

1) Insider information,
2) Stick in the wife's cash,
3) Wait
4) Take 200-300% profit...

Let's just hope the cunt doesn't sell all the assets before he leaves.

If Wenger can end run Gazidis and secure a new contract in a single meeting, that after fucking up the wholse season and only pulling his arse out of the fire with a random cup win after passage via two non-league teams... fuck me, the bloke is a lucky bastard. Just like Zim said.

Kroenke doesn't give a flying fuck and that means Wenger is in total control. He won't be going anywhere.

[Letters]

What possible reason would he not want to succeed? Just money? He'd get that anyway, he might even get more if we succeed.
Makes zero sense that a manager at this level wouldn't want to succeed.

[Niall_Quinn]

He signed Ozil, Cech, Sanchez and Lacazettte. We don't need players of that quality to bumble along.
I think he has tried to deliver success and the FA cup was a decent start but we haven't pushed on.
Agree he's not one to try and achieve success at any cost though

But we do need those sorts of players to retain our precious 4th Place Super Cup. He's done the absolute bare minimum that he feels he can get away with - and even then he shaved it too close last season and ended up 5th.

[Niall_Quinn]

What possible reason would he not want to succeed? Just money? He'd get that anyway, he might even get more if we succeed.
Makes zero sense that a manager at this level wouldn't want to succeed.

I don't give a fuck what he wants, I care about what he does.

QED, WENGER OUT!

[Niall_Quinn]

I totally agree, the guy will probably sign another 2 year contract then, they're a crafty lot. The guy shows no signs of wanting to leave, last season was a disaster and he dangled the possibility of him being unsure about him staying when in reality he knew all along, that much was obvious, some people thought he could leave, I never thought he would, he loves the power too much, success isn't all that important to him (not on the pitch anyway).

Even I thought he wouldn't have the nerve to stay, given his rancid performance and the way he dragged the whole contract thing out. My fault was, I didn't think the guy was as bad as he is, as a conniving, manipulating son of a bitch. I should have known better. I was praying he'd bow out on yet another opportunity to grab a bit of dignity from a cup win. Some call that going out on a high. I call it going out on under achievement but some sort of achievement nonetheless. But the bloke instead uses it as a sign from the gods he's back in business.

[Letters]

I don't give a fuck what he wants, I care about what he does.

QED, WENGER OUT!

Sure. But the conversation was about whether he even wants success.
Makes absolutely no sense for him not to. But he can't deliver it so yes, Wenger out.
Do you think the board will replace him with someone who can though? Because they genuinely don't care how we do, within reason.
It will at least be different and that can only be a good thing.

[Niall_Quinn]

Sure. But the conversation was about whether he even wants success.
Makes absolutely no sense for him not to. But he can't deliver it so yes, Wenger out.
Do you think the board will replace him with someone who can though? Because they genuinely don't care how we do, within reason.
It will at least be different and that can only be a good thing.

I don't think the board has any say in it - given the evidence of the summer. Kroenke doesn't give a fuck how we perform on the field. It's doubtful he even follows the week to week results. He'll judge things by the balance sheet and if that reads to his satisfaction then Wenger will stay. Plus Wenger actually defends the bastard. Can you imagine a Maureen type figure playing the obedient bitch like Wenger does? Wenger offers everything Kroenke needs so Wenger will be around for a while yet. In that respect it's true, nobody can replace Wenger because there's no manager out there worth the title who would put up with this shite.

[Power n Glory]

I see very little debate being initiated by you regarding the problems at the club. I do see you jump in on an almost routine basis whenever you feel like an "extreme" point has been made. Well, I was discussing a pretty fucking extreme point with other posters, in this thread I think, relating to Ivan the Lizard claiming we've over-performed over the last few seasons in comparison to the top clubs. What utter nonsense and frivolous wordplay. Surely extreme if you compare it to an innocuous comment such as , "pathetic result", surely? I really wonder why the latter seems to bother you more than the former, or at least why you choose to direct fire at a frustrated fan rather than the source of the frustration. You can state you want Wenger gone and you can agree the club is being run with the wrong motives, fairly easy things to agree with as they are obvious. But it doesn't tally with your behavioural pattern of diving in in defence of the "extreme" viewpoints targeted at Wenger. Except maybe in one context. Could it be Wenger himself, aside from him being the Arsenal manager, that you are seeking to defend? Perhaps you have some deep respect for the guy and you find it offensive when he's criticised in certain ways? Fine. But then comes the manner of your defence. You tend to belittle the people you argue against. Which is why I do the same thing to you, btw, but don't do it to other posters. One liners with a sarcastic smiley, the rolling eyes, the head slap, the sheer effort taken to dig out stuff from the past so you can paint people as conflicted, almost as if it is a crime to reconsider or have a change of mind. And the other stuff I already mentioned. You want other people to be reasonable but often you are very unreasonable and provocative and, some might say, extreme yourself. And so am I, but as an example, if I'm extreme it doesn't give you a pass to be the same if you then go around calling for others to be reasonable.

:gp:

[Letters]

:lol:

Here he comes running, like Roy Keane to a referee who has just booked one of his players.

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol:

Here he comes running, like Roy Keane to a referee who has just booked one of his players.

What do you mean he's "come running"? He hasn't been in the thread all day.

[Power n Glory]

Even I thought he wouldn't have the nerve to stay, given his rancid performance and the way he dragged the whole contract thing out. My fault was, I didn't think the guy was as bad as he is, as a conniving, manipulating son of a bitch. I should have known better. I was praying he'd bow out on yet another opportunity to grab a bit of dignity from a cup win. Some call that going out on a high. I call it going out on under achievement but some sort of achievement nonetheless. But the bloke instead uses it as a sign from the gods he's back in business.

Without Wenger, this con job wouldn't have been possible. I think more people are catching on. I think it was Merson who said after Sir Chips performance at the AGM, Wenger came out smelling of roses with some fans falling for the okie doke singing the managers praises again. Merse called it a game. It's manipulation. We've all been played.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'd love to believe Kroenke gives a fuck beyond his basic business model which, in a nutshell is:

1) Insider information,
2) Stick in the wife's cash,
3) Wait
4) Take 200-300% profit...

Let's just hope the cunt doesn't sell all the assets before he leaves.

If Wenger can end run Gazidis and secure a new contract in a single meeting, that after fucking up the wholse season and only pulling his arse out of the fire with a random cup win after passage via two non-league teams... fuck me, the bloke is a lucky bastard. Just like Zim said.

Kroenke doesn't give a flying fuck and that means Wenger is in total control. He won't be going anywhere.

Has nothing to do with Kroenke, I think Wenger did wait as long as he did to sign a new contract because he was weighing up his fear of retirement his obsessive desire for control on all levels against the stick he rightly gets from the fans. He has acknowledged himself he’s only ever one bad result away from a mutinous atmosphere. And like I said this is more about Wenger giving himself room to walk away before the end of a contract. Unless he finishes outside the top six, yeah of course stupidly the job is his as long as he wants it.
But at 68, even with nothing else going on in his life he probably does ask himself how worthwhile it is.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Without Wenger, this con job wouldn't have been possible. I think more people are catching on. I think it was Merson who said after Sir Chips performance at the AGM, Wenger came out smelling of roses with some fans falling for the okie doke singing the managers praises again. Merse called it a game. It's manipulation. We've all been played.

Is it?

I think they are far too conceited, complacent and contemptuous of fans to even bother playing games with them.

Sir Chips Keswick is a dusty old trilobite from the same mould as Hill Wood (we thank you for your interest in our affairs).

Wenger is of course capable of turning on the charm, when he’s not indulging in his pointless self serving ruminations he can be engaging and interesting to listen to. It’s reading a bit too much into it to even think people like the AST are fooled into thinking Arsene is the absolute boy and it’s the board holding him back because of that speech.

The AGM is what it is, people giving a presentation to people they don’t want to be giving a presentation to and wish they’d shut their mouths and take the generous offers for their shares.

[Niall_Quinn]

Has nothing to do with Kroenke, I think Wenger did wait as long as he did to sign a new contract because he was weighing up his fear of retirement his obsessive desire for control on all levels against the stick he rightly gets from the fans. He has acknowledged himself he’s only ever one bad result away from a mutinous atmosphere. And like I said this is more about Wenger giving himself room to walk away before the end of a contract. Unless he finishes outside the top six, yeah of course stupidly the job is his as long as he wants it.
But at 68, even with nothing else going on in his life he probably does ask himself how worthwhile it is.

He could equally ask himself what he is without Arsenal. Only bastards who want to con their fanbase will be queueing to sign him if he leaves. And he'd never get the power he has here. He's either managing Arsenal or out of management.

[Power n Glory]

:lol:

Here he comes running, like Roy Keane to a referee who has just booked one of his players.

NQ's post breaks down what I was trying to say yesterday before you lost your rag and told me to 'fuck off'. Yet you call for sensible debate? Off the back of that response, we could have gone back and forth with more personal insults which would have resulted in ban if taken too far. Well, that's what used to happen on GW when we had more posters.

[Letters]

What do you mean he's "come running"? He hasn't been in the thread all day.

He's not very fast at running :sulk:
Or...maybe he was a long way away.

[Letters]

NQ's post breaks down what I was trying to say yesterday before you lost your rag and told me to 'fuck off'. Yet you call for sensible debate? Off the back of that response, we could have gone back and forth with more personal insults which would have resulted in ban if taken too far. Well, that's what used to happen on GW when we had more posters.

I responded at length to the post you just :gp:d
Have a look at that :good:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He could equally ask himself what he is without Arsenal. Only bastards who want to con their fanbase will be queueing to sign him if he leaves. And he'd never get the power he has here. He's either managing Arsenal or out of management.

And probably what tipped the scales in him staying. But someone who goes on constantly about how committed they are generally sounds like the kind of person trying to convince himself.

He is very selfish and has put his own fear of walking away from football management above what’s best for the club undoubtedly. What I’m saying is his resolve to stay maybe isn’t as strong as he’s saying.

Whether he will just walk away is a million dollar question, the remarks on his contract for me are his own way of saying I will see how this season goes before deciding whether I want to continue for another.

[Letters]

we could have gone back and forth with more personal insults which would have resulted in ban if taken too far. Well, that's what used to happen on GW when we had more posters.
Actually, it pretty much never happened. More often someone would be banned from a thread or possibly suspended briefly.
Permanent bans were very rare. It was damned near impossible to get banned from this place even back in the day.

[Niall_Quinn]

And probably what tipped the scales in him staying. But someone who goes on constantly about how committed they are generally sounds like the kind of person trying to convince himself.

He is very selfish and has put his own fear of walking away from football management above what’s best for the club undoubtedly. What I’m saying is his resolve to stay maybe isn’t as strong as he’s saying.

Whether he will just walk away is a million dollar question, the remarks on his contract for me are his own way of saying I will see how this season goes before deciding whether I want to continue for another.

Well I hope you are right.

Which leads us to the next great depression. Who else will they get to nod and play ball?

It's a bit hopeless at this club really.

[Niall_Quinn]

He's not very fast at running :sulk:
Or...maybe he was a long way away.

He's not as fast as you when it comes to making excuses for Wenger, that's for sure.

[Letters]

<_<

[Niall_Quinn]

Without Wenger, this con job wouldn't have been possible. I think more people are catching on. I think it was Merson who said after Sir Chips performance at the AGM, Wenger came out smelling of roses with some fans falling for the okie doke singing the managers praises again. Merse called it a game. It's manipulation. We've all been played.

Without a doubt. It couldn't be clearer. We've already burned through the great revolution that was to follow on the back of a decade of frugality. No sign of a title challenge, plenty of signs we are used to seeing. Like our best players scrambling for the exits. You have to wonder how many times some fans need to see the same old shit before they start asking serious questions of the honourable men who are running the place.

[Niall_Quinn]

<_<

And there you go. There's a huge difference between that sort of response and some of the bullshit you (we) dish out. Having a laugh on a web forum and taking a few slaps in the process is entertainment. Better than the fucking football anyway. If it all stayed on that level then nobody would have a problem. Except girls.

[Cripps]

I totally agree, the guy will probably sign another 2 year contract then, they're a crafty lot. The guy shows no signs of wanting to leave, last season was a disaster and he dangled the possibility of him being unsure about him staying when in reality he knew all along, that much was obvious, some people thought he could leave, I never thought he would, he loves the power too much, success isn't all that important to him (not on the pitch anyway).

Someone on Twitter said Wenger owned shares which explains why he's such a penny pincher and acts like a CEO and is so interested in the financials. Was interesting to hear.

[Letters]

Is someone on Twitter the new "bloke down the pub"?

https://www.quora.com/Is-Arsene-Wenger-a-shareholder-in-Arsenal-FC

[Cripps]

Sure. But the conversation was about whether he even wants success.
Makes absolutely no sense for him not to. But he can't deliver it so yes, Wenger out.
Do you think the board will replace him with someone who can though? Because they genuinely don't care how we do, within reason.
It will at least be different and that can only be a good thing.

I kinda do. I think gazidis saw the monumental drop in utd when they appointed moyes and is aware of the kind of manager we need. Also his argument for keeping Wenger on last season i.e. having a manager that can handle the demands of a big club, tells me he knows we need one of the top European managers.

[Cripps]

Is someone on Twitter the new "bloke down the pub"?

https://www.quora.com/Is-Arsene-Wenger-a-shareholder-in-Arsenal-FC

He did say in a different name or somehow linked to him. Seems far fetched but would make sense.

[Özim]

What possible reason would he not want to succeed? Just money? He'd get that anyway, he might even get more if we succeed.
Makes zero sense that a manager at this level wouldn't want to succeed.

He doesn't not want to succeed, he just doesn't see winning trophies as success, success for him is making the club money and maybe qualifying for the CL, he's pretty much stated as much indirectly, a manager that is really focussed on winning doesn't come out with stuff like we've qualified for the CL for 16 years running (or whatever it was) which is a pretty meaningless stat when you've never won it and really only come close once 12 years ago, they also don't talk about being in the top 4 as success, it's a good stepping stone but after 15+ years of it it means little if you ever win, they also don't sweep huge defeats unders the carpet by saying stuff like we won the first half.

I'm sorry but if you consider the amount of big defeats we've had in the last 10 years and how they have had no impact on anything we do it does tell it's own story, humiliations really don't seem to affect anyone at the club too much, it's almost accepted that they'll happen, there's not really any embarrassment about them anymore.

Almost everything he says points to a man who definite sucess differently to other managers at top club, we're probably the only big club happy with not winning the big trophies and let's face we are happy, new contracts and praise for players etc don't regularly go to managers/club who never really challenge for the big prizes at big clubs.

[Letters]

He doesn't not want to succeed, he just doesn't see winning trophies as success, success for him is making the club money and maybe qualifying for the CL, he's pretty much stated as much indirectly, a manager that is really focussed on winning doesn't come out with stuff like we've qualified for the CL for 16 years running (or whatever it was) which is a pretty meaningless stat when you've never won it and really only come close once 12 years ago, they also don't talk about being in the top 4 as success, it's a good stepping stone but after 15+ years of it it means little if you ever win, they also don't sweep huge defeats unders the carpet by saying stuff like we won the first half.

I'm sorry but if you consider the amount of big defeats we've had in the last 10 years and how they have had no impact on anything we do it does tell it's own story, humiliations really don't seem to affect anyone at the club too much, it's almost accepted that they'll happen, there's not really any embarrassment about them anymore.

Almost everything he says points to a man who definite sucess differently to other managers at top club, we're probably the only big club happy with not winning the big trophies and let's face we are happy, new contracts and praise for players etc don't regularly go to managers/club who never really challenge for the big prizes at big clubs.

The board definitely doesn't care about trophies, I think Wenger does...well, he definitely does but I agree he doesn't see it as the be all and end all. He is too interested in the club finances, that shouldn't be his job. But lots of things shouldn't be his job at Arsenal.

[Power n Glory]

He doesn't not want to succeed, he just doesn't see winning trophies as success, success for him is making the club money and maybe qualifying for the CL, he's pretty much stated as much indirectly, a manager that is really focussed on winning doesn't come out with stuff like we've qualified for the CL for 16 years running (or whatever it was) which is a pretty meaningless stat when you've never won it and really only come close once 12 years ago, they also don't talk about being in the top 4 as success, it's a good stepping stone but after 15+ years of it it means little if you ever win, they also don't sweep huge defeats unders the carpet by saying stuff like we won the first half.

I'm sorry but if you consider the amount of big defeats we've had in the last 10 years and how they have had no impact on anything we do it does tell it's own story, humiliations really don't seem to affect anyone at the club too much, it's almost accepted that they'll happen, there's not really any embarrassment about them anymore.

Almost everything he says points to a man who definite sucess differently to other managers at top club, we're probably the only big club happy with not winning the big trophies and let's face we are happy, new contracts and praise for players etc don't regularly go to managers/club who never really challenge for the big prizes at big clubs.

A manager that’s embarrassed by his CL record and frustrated with not winning the League title in over a decade doesn’t just sign Lacazette and Kolasnic after dropping out of the Top 4. Especially when Sanchez and Ozil are in the final year of their contract and you want to convince them to sign an extension.

Wenger has no professional pride or drive.

[Cripps]

He doesn't not want to succeed, he just doesn't see winning trophies as success, success for him is making the club money and maybe qualifying for the CL, he's pretty much stated as much indirectly, a manager that is really focussed on winning doesn't come out with stuff like we've qualified for the CL for 16 years running (or whatever it was) which is a pretty meaningless stat when you've never won it and really only come close once 12 years ago, they also don't talk about being in the top 4 as success, it's a good stepping stone but after 15+ years of it it means little if you ever win, they also don't sweep huge defeats unders the carpet by saying stuff like we won the first half.

I'm sorry but if you consider the amount of big defeats we've had in the last 10 years and how they have had no impact on anything we do it does tell it's own story, humiliations really don't seem to affect anyone at the club too much, it's almost accepted that they'll happen, there's not really any embarrassment about them anymore.

Almost everything he says points to a man who definite sucess differently to other managers at top club, we're probably the only big club happy with not winning the big trophies and let's face we are happy, new contracts and praise for players etc don't regularly go to managers/club who never really challenge for the big prizes at big clubs.

I still don't understand why he got rid of the invincibles in such a short space of time

Why did he go for project youth? The amount of £ we spent on overpaid youth players, we could have just carried on with the normal model of experience + youth. There was no need to go to an extreme.

That was one of his biggest downfalls imo. All this mentally weak crap is relatively new, we were renowned for being the mentally strongest and having a strong character. Wenger wiped that out in the space of 24 months and filled the changing room with young, brittle, mentally weak players.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

A manager that’s embarrassed by his CL record and frustrated with not winning the League title in over a decade doesn’t just sign Lacazette and Kolasnic after dropping out of the Top 4. Especially when Sanchez and Ozil are in the final year of their contract and you want to convince them to sign an extension.

Wenger has no professional pride or drive.

The board claimed there was no money available for new signings two days before the end of the transfer window which leaves three possibilities

A) They are covering for his lack of desire to spend or lack of ability to get deals done
B) They don’t want him spending anymore money because they don’t trust him
C) They aren’t being honest over the finances of the club

We know for a while about Wengers reluctance to spend and how Dein tried to convince him. The irony is despite signing players like Xhaka is that he agonises and prevaricates on a players value for ages....he is incredibly indecisive and yet despite this insists on full control.
In Wengers own mind I think he’d rather not spend big and then claim the financial advantage of the clubs like city, Chelsea and United than spend big and know he has no excuse to hide behind.

Also I think the board doesn’t allocate the full amount of its actual spending power. Which explains the protracted negotiations for Mustafi, because he didn’t have enough to sign a striker and had to settle for Lucas Perez who he didn’t really want.

[Niall_Quinn]

What about the insane 92mill bid for Lemar? Stunt or real?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

What about the insane 92mill bid for Lemar? Stunt or real?

Dependent on the money we would have got from selling Sanchez to City I imagine

[Niall_Quinn]

Dependent on the money we would have got from selling Sanchez to City I imagine

For sure. But what was going on behind the scenes I wonder. Right up until the last day of the window we flat refused to pay a fee that would have secured the player. A 50 mill bid when the window opened and before Monaco got raided would have secured him. The player said he wanted to come. Monaco are a selling team, it's their model. We had the money and Lemar was supposedly our top target. Instead we fucked around with lowball bids that weren't close to Monaco's valuation. Wasted all that time, made the deal harder to do as time passed and Monaco started to lose players, pissed off Monaco with our fucking around, pissed off the player, pissed off the fans. Typical Arsenal and all the hallmarks of Wenger dithering around and trying to land a bargain where there was no bargain to be had. A total fuck-up.

Then, just as the player is about to start an important International match, our bids go through the roof and eventually treble our initial offer. That can't have been Wenger, it's just not in his make-up. Surely it was somebody else who came in and made a desperate bid to land the player, money no object. Who would that have been and how was Wenger cut out of the equation? And why can't it happen every transfer window?

[Power n Glory]

We made a £18m profit last summer. There is no way I'm falling for the 'no money' line again.

[Özim]

A manager that’s embarrassed by his CL record and frustrated with not winning the League title in over a decade doesn’t just sign Lacazette and Kolasnic after dropping out of the Top 4. Especially when Sanchez and Ozil are in the final year of their contract and you want to convince them to sign an extension.

Wenger has no professional pride or drive.

No, I totally agree, what we did last summer was less than the bare minimum it was never going to be enough to have a chance of the title given our previous season, we needed at least 4 top quality players to come in in various areas on top of changes elsewhere, like coaching amongst other things.

[Niall_Quinn]

We made a £18m profit last summer. There is no way I'm falling for the 'no money' line again.

There's every indication the money is there, provided of course it is the fans' and TV/ sponsor's money and not from Stan's or any other shareholder's pocket. We moved fast for Lacazette and paid a club record fee. And then there was more cash for Lemar, but Wenger fucked that up trying to assert his crackpot ideas about value. And that bid eventually went to 92 mill, so the no money thing has zero evidence to support it. Wenger has been allowed to spend (or waste) almost 200 million in recent windows. And yet the money was not initially there to tie down Alexis, Ozil or Ox. In the end all three players were offered what they'd initially wanted, perhaps Ozil's offer was still a bit light, but certainly the other two were offered what they demanded. By then both Alexis and Ox wanted out regardless so these late offers were refused. More dithering.

It's quite possible that if Wenger had been sent on holiday at the end of the season and removed entirely from the transfer process we could have secured Alexis early at 300kpw, which by the standards of this crazy market he is worth, secured Ox at around the amount we waste on Theo, signed Lemar with an early 50 mill bid. And that could have transformed the way Ozil viewed the ambitions of the club and led to his signature too. Speculation and we'll never know for sure, but it's safe enough to say we'd have had more chance of a positive outcome without Wenger's involvement.

Instead we've bungled it and the net result will be a threadbare squad come the summer, in terms of genuinely top tier talent.

It's not the money, is it? It's Wenger.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We made a £18m profit last summer. There is no way I'm falling for the 'no money' line again.

The question isn’t so much do we have money or don’t we (we do) but why the board claims we don’t. Is it to protect Wenger or is it a sign of not trusting him as much with money.

[Özim]

I still don't understand why he got rid of the invincibles in such a short space of time

Why did he go for project youth? The amount of £ we spent on overpaid youth players, we could have just carried on with the normal model of experience + youth. There was no need to go to an extreme.

That was one of his biggest downfalls imo. All this mentally weak crap is relatively new, we were renowned for being the mentally strongest and having a strong character. Wenger wiped that out in the space of 24 months and filled the changing room with young, brittle, mentally weak players.

The youth project seems to coincide with the 10 year youth plan he had when he arrived, so this idea had been brewing a while.

He had it all at the time, quality players, leadership, pace, flair and success, then he decided he should dismantle the entire team quickly without adequate replacements line up, change the style of play and do the exact opposite of what brought him success, to this day he's not even tried to revert back to those successful methods, all very weird.

[Letters]

I thought Project Youth was a response to the difficulty in competing in the transfer market at the time when the billionaires were having their biggest impact in the game and the stadium was hampering our finances somewhat.

[Marc Overmars]

There was definitely a point where the pennies had to be carefully counted and that started even before the stadium move as we were trying to finance the building of it in the early 2000's, in the latter years at Highbury we rarely spent anything significant.

There were a few on here who suspected the lack of money wasn't the only reason for our lack of competitiveness but that opinion was met with a lot of derision at the time because it was felt that Wenger had been thrown under a bus, despite his obvious aversion to spending big money.

I'm just glad that myth has been busted now. Wenger's coaching is ancient and with or without money the results bare that out.

[Niall_Quinn]

The question isn’t so much do we have money or don’t we (we do) but why the board claims we don’t. Is it to protect Wenger or is it a sign of not trusting him as much with money.

Or was it even a unified board that tried to sell that bullshit?

We don't have any money, we won't sell Alexis... followed by we're selling Alexis and here's 92 mill for Lemar.

That's either collective schizophrenia or a split in the board. Or maybe a dramatic change in circumstances that has not been disclosed. Whatever, it's all as chaotic as we've come to expect.

[selassie]

There's every indication the money is there, provided of course it is the fans' and TV/ sponsor's money and not from Stan's or any other shareholder's pocket. We moved fast for Lacazette and paid a club record fee. And then there was more cash for Lemar, but Wenger fucked that up trying to assert his crackpot ideas about value. And that bid eventually went to 92 mill, so the no money thing has zero evidence to support it. Wenger has been allowed to spend (or waste) almost 200 million in recent windows. And yet the money was not initially there to tie down Alexis, Ozil or Ox. In the end all three players were offered what they'd initially wanted, perhaps Ozil's offer was still a bit light, but certainly the other two were offered what they demanded. By then both Alexis and Ox wanted out regardless so these late offers were refused. More dithering.

It's quite possible that if Wenger had been sent on holiday at the end of the season and removed entirely from the transfer process we could have secured Alexis early at 300kpw, which by the standards of this crazy market he is worth, secured Ox at around the amount we waste on Theo, signed Lemar with an early 50 mill bid. And that could have transformed the way Ozil viewed the ambitions of the club and led to his signature too. Speculation and we'll never know for sure, but it's safe enough to say we'd have had more chance of a positive outcome without Wenger's involvement.

Instead we've bungled it and the net result will be a threadbare squad come the summer, in terms of genuinely top tier talent.

It's not the money, is it? It's Wenger.

:gp:

Totally agree, it's clearly on Wenger, he dithers and messes up deals over his misguided view on player valuations, it's damaged our rep in the market.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Or was it even a unified board that tried to sell that bullshit?

We don't have any money, we won't sell Alexis... followed by we're selling Alexis and here's 92 mill for Lemar.

That's either collective schizophrenia or a split in the board. Or maybe a dramatic change in circumstances that has not been disclosed. Whatever, it's all as chaotic as we've come to expect.

That’s another possibility

[selassie]

The question isn’t so much do we have money or don’t we (we do) but why the board claims we don’t. Is it to protect Wenger or is it a sign of not trusting him as much with money.

It could be a trust issue, it could be partially to do with Wenger sitting on funds or at least not pulling the trigger and being as proactive as he should be in the market.

Clearly we have money, in fact we have actually spent a fair bit over the past few seasons, more than Chelsea, we just haven't been very wise with our investments and you could argue that the best two signings we have made over the past few years are about to walk out for free to our rivals come the summer.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:gp:

Totally agree, it's clearly on Wenger, he dithers and messes up deals over his misguided view on player valuations, it's damaged our rep in the market.

Oh for sure, that’s not in doubt. Constantly prevaricates and agonises and cant make his mind up

[Niall_Quinn]

There was definitely a point where the pennies had to be carefully counted and that started even before the stadium move as we were trying to finance the building of it in the early 2000's, in the latter years at Highbury we rarely spent anything significant.

There were a few on here who suspected the lack of money wasn't the only reason for our lack of competitiveness but that opinion was met with a lot of derision at the time because it was felt that Wenger had been thrown under a bus, despite his obvious aversion to spending big money.

I'm just glad that myth has been busted now. Wenger's coaching is ancient and with or without money the results bare that out.

Counting the pennies has consistently cost us in the long run. We're sitting on a quarter of a billion in the bank as football inflation runs rampant. That money would have bought us a world class squad a decade ago, we'll be lucky if it buys us a top tier striker in a couple of years. We are very close to the quarter billion quid transfer fee.

We wouldn't pay an agent 7mill commission for arranging a deal for Mbappe a few years back. This year he goes for 160 mill. Even if we'd have nabbed him when we had the chance and he moved on to a bigger club 3 years later, we'd be looking at a massive profit of the type Wenger used to be able to achieve on players like Anelka. And if we'd have speculated instead of penny pinched, not only would it have been much cheaper and ultimately more profitable in the long term, we'd have been building a quality team of quality players (real quality, not Wenger's bullshit idea of quality) and that in turn would have made us competitive, which in turn might have brought the trophies that fed back into the whole cycle that success brings.

Sustainability, penny pinching and dithering has been absolutely disastrous for this club and has derailed the whole (alleged) purpose of moving to the Emirates. Yet this is what the morons in charge boast about the most. They are actually proud of their mega-fuckup. And then, of course, they have the nerve to claim they can't compete because other clubs are spending money.

[selassie]

A manager that’s embarrassed by his CL record and frustrated with not winning the League title in over a decade doesn’t just sign Lacazette and Kolasnic after dropping out of the Top 4. Especially when Sanchez and Ozil are in the final year of their contract and you want to convince them to sign an extension.

Wenger has no professional pride or drive.

:gp:

Yep totally agree. With Wenger it's all about "We will try our best and respect the principles of the club" blah blah blah, it's all a load of hogwash. Arsenal suits Wenger down to the ground because he can work under no pressure from above and as such he basically sets his own targets, does he even have any?

Wenger wouldn't last 5 minutes at any of our current rivals, you think the likes of Chelsea or Man United would accept dropping out of the top 4 and losing their best players in the process?

[Niall_Quinn]

:gp:

Yep totally agree. With Wenger it's all about "We will try our best and respect the principles of the club" blah blah blah, it's all a load of hogwash. Arsenal suits Wenger down to the ground because he can work under no pressure from above and as such he basically sets his own targets, does he even have any?

Wenger wouldn't last 5 minutes at any of our current rivals, you think the likes of Chelsea or Man United would accept dropping out of the top 4 and losing their best players in the process?

Wenger seems to derive some sort of perverse pleasure in making it difficult for himself. The only real risks he takes are the ones that don't gain us anything if they go right, but are catastrophic WHEN they go wrong.

[Power n Glory]

There was definitely a point where the pennies had to be carefully counted and that started even before the stadium move as we were trying to finance the building of it in the early 2000's, in the latter years at Highbury we rarely spent anything significant.

There were a few on here who suspected the lack of money wasn't the only reason for our lack of competitiveness but that opinion was met with a lot of derision at the time because it was felt that Wenger had been thrown under a bus, despite his obvious aversion to spending big money.

I'm just glad that myth has been busted now. Wenger's coaching is ancient and with or without money the results bare that out.

Yes, Wenger has always praised the Ajax model so I don't think project youth was a reaction to changes in the transfer market. Investing in the training ground, the stadium, the scouts this was all part of the vision....Vieira was grumbling about our transfer policy before Chelsea hit the lottery. We'd never compete with top clubs to sign players. We were always looking for cheap young players and giving them a chance in the first team. Kolo Toure, Clichy, Senderos, Aliadierre....

I believe that has always been the blueprint but circumstances changed once Abramovich arrived and we stayed the course instead of adjusting our strategy. Hence why Dein was kicked off the Board.

[Cripps]

The youth project seems to coincide with the 10 year youth plan he had when he arrived, so this idea had been brewing a while.

He had it all at the time, quality players, leadership, pace, flair and success, then he decided he should dismantle the entire team quickly without adequate replacements line up, change the style of play and do the exact opposite of what brought him success, to this day he's not even tried to revert back to those successful methods, all very weird.

Didn't we have one of the highest wage bills with project youth? So not it's even like we saved a ton of money :lol: the way the club act they make it seem like we kept getting 4th with the 17th highest wage bill :lol:

Also what accountability was there for that shambles of a project? For treating us like a toy and completely eradicating our competitiveness? Any other manager would have been shipped out for taking the piss and ripping us apart but we kept giving Wenger new deals and still do :lol:

[GP]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNnnGBuWkAAhpca.jpg

[Niall_Quinn]

What's he getting from Santa?

A full 90 mins?

[Cripps]

:haha:

[Cripps]

Serious question

What has mertesacker done to deserve being named the head of academy at one of the largest, most renowned institutions in the world?

[Özim]

Serious question

What has mertesacker done to deserve being named the head of academy at one of the largest, most renowned institutions in the world?

You don't need to do anything at this club to get a top job getting paid top whack, that's the problem, he'll be a perfect yes man to Wenger, he's not exactly a leader or outspoken.

[Marc Overmars]

He's definitely a Wenger yes man but in fairness to Merts he's clearly very highly thought of at the club. A bit like Arteta was too and he was deemed good enough to work with Pep.

I don't think it's as simple as great player = great coach, or average player = average coach.

[Cripps]

That's exactly my worry Zimm. An unqualified, inexperienced yes man. Instead of making a sound appointment to nurture the next generation of players coming through, and taking one of the best Head of Academy's off an elite club, we've appointed an unqualified, inexperienced individual with a weak mentality to manage the next generations.

IMO just another example of Wenger wanting someone that does not pose a threat or challenge him. Worrying.

[Özim]

Mertersacker won't change much, Wenger just picks yes men, none of them ever have an impact, what we really need is more outspoken people with new ideas, preferably not from inside the current club structure and the losers mentality seems to be ingrained into most of them.

The club may think highly of Mertersacker but it's pretty meaningless, look at the other people they think highly of, these people being cherry picked are clearly people who won't upset the status quo, pointless really because we really need someone to come in and make changes, even at youth level where out youth policy really hasn't worked despite the many millions invested.

There's simply no drive at this club and Mertersacker epitomises that.

[Letters]

Mertersacker won't change much, Wenger just picks yes men, none of them ever have an impact, what we really need is more outspoken people with new ideas, preferably not from inside the current club structure and the losers mentality seems to be ingrained into most of them.

The club may think highly of Mertersacker but it's pretty meaningless, look at the other people they think highly of, these people being cherry picked are clearly people who won't upset the status quo, pointless really because we really need someone to come in and make changes, even at youth level where out youth policy really hasn't worked despite the many millions invested.

There's simply no drive at this club and Mertersacker epitomises that.

If I didn't know better I'd say you're not entirely satisfied with the state and direction of the club.

[Power n Glory]

He's definitely a Wenger yes man but in fairness to Merts he's clearly very highly thought of at the club. A bit like Arteta was too and he was deemed good enough to work with Pep.

I don't think it's as simple as great player = great coach, or average player = average coach.

Exactly the point I was going to make. Within the first year of signing Merts and Arteta, I heard that these two were the most influential behind the scenes. I'm all for retaining former players for coaching roles. In my opinion, Kos wasn't shit before Merts arrived and has gone back to being dodgy without him. Merts has a more tactical brain, is a world cup winner and we've seen him dish out the tough criticism when needed. I wish him well in his new role.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Really if we incorporate the logic that Wenger controls everything it should lead us to conclude that it doesn’t matter who we have in coaching positions.
Mertesacker like Arteta comes across as someone who is intelligent and thoughtful. And seems to me like a good long term appointment

[Cripps]

If I didn't know better I'd say you're not entirely satisfied with the state and direction of the club.

No need to mock him and take the debate off track, he's made some good points. Are you wanting him to react so he gets into a personal duels with you, then you can ban him?

[Cripps]

Exactly the point I was going to make. Within the first year of signing Merts and Arteta, I heard that these two were the most influential behind the scenes. I'm all for retaining former players for coaching roles. In my opinion, Kos wasn't shit before Merts arrived and has gone back to being dodgy without him. Merts has a more tactical brain, is a world cup winner and we've seen him dish out the tough criticism when needed. I wish him well in his new role.

But as head of academy? Come on

Don't think there would be any qualms if he was given a coaching role. HOA? That's a massive role.

[Cripps]

Exactly the point I was going to make. Within the first year of signing Merts and Arteta, I heard that these two were the most influential behind the scenes. I'm all for retaining former players for coaching roles. In my opinion, Kos wasn't shit before Merts arrived and has gone back to being dodgy without him. Merts has a more tactical brain, is a world cup winner and we've seen him dish out the tough criticism when needed. I wish him well in his new role.

Also the most influential behind the scenes? :lol:

They were part of a embarrassing team during the height of our banter era :lol: F*ck me we should be worried then.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No need to mock him and take the debate off track, he's made some good points. Are you wanting him to react so he gets into a personal duels with you, then you can ban him?

Paranoid nonsense starting again

I know day time television is dull, but surely there’s better ways to occupy your time

[Cripps]

Paranoid nonsense starting again

I know day time television is dull, but surely there’s better ways to occupy your time

An absolutely valid point.

Herbert coming along and sticking up for Letters as usual :rolleyes:

Are you secretly a second account made by him? :unsure:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

An absolutely valid point.

Herbert coming along and sticking up for Letters as usual :rolleyes:

Are you secretly a second account made by him? :unsure:

Yes

I’m also the manifestation of him wrestling with his faith giving the amount of time I’ve mocked him for being religious

And maybe given I’m 6ft 3. I’m his Tyler Durden

[Niall_Quinn]

An absolutely valid point.

Herbert coming along and sticking up for Letters as usual :rolleyes:

Are you secretly a second account made by him? :unsure:

???

We're all Letters accounts. Are you saying you're not? Wow.

Welcome.

What brings you here to myour forum?

[Cripps]

???

We're all Letters accounts. Are you saying you're not? Wow.

Welcome.

What brings you here to myour forum?

:lol:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

???

We're all Letters accounts. Are you saying you're not? Wow.

Welcome.

What brings you here to myour forum?

Quiet Letters!!!

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes

I’m also the manifestation of him wrestling with his faith giving the amount of time I’ve mocked him for being religious

And maybe given I’m 6ft 3. I’m his Tyler Durden

6' 3" :haha:

Little bit compensation going on.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

6' 3" :haha:

Little bit compensation going on.

About 2 and a half feet

[Power n Glory]

But as head of academy? Come on

Don't think there would be any qualms if he was given a coaching role. HOA? That's a massive role.

It is a massive role and I wish him the best. I truly believe this club needs more football minded people behind the scenes and have always been in favour of retaining our own and not shunting them out to another team. I’ve always heard Merts is one of the more intelligent players and a leader behind the scenes. Regardless of the results on the field, I’ll always been in favour of that because I believe we kicked far too many of our older players out of the club without retaining any of that knowledge.

Also, I’m not saying Merts would have any real effect on our first team. Why would he when he’s got the Head of Youth role? He’ll have no say in what happens at First team level so Wenger’s influence doesn’t really come into play. Until Wenger leaves, we’re going to be stuck in the same position no matter how many chess pieces we try to move around him. Even if we saw a change in ownership and had Jabba the Hut instead of Silent Stan, we’d still face the same problems if Usmanov can’t see that the problem is Wenger.

[Cripps]

Sorry I just don't see it. I see it as another classic Wenger appointment: a nice, unchallenging, nodding, weak minded yes man to report into lord wenger and continue the path of mediocrity at the club.

[Power n Glory]

Sorry I just don't see it. I see it as another classic Wenger appointment: a nice, unchallenging, nodding, weak minded yes man to report into lord wenger and continue the path of mediocrity at the club.

What do you know of what's required for being an Academy Manager and how does that relate to First Team issues with Wenger?

What other examples do you have?

[Letters]

Yes
:doh:

FFS, you (I) weren't supposed to tell him that.
:sulk:

[Letters]

???

We're all Letters accounts. Are you saying you're not? Wow.

Welcome.

What brings you here to myour forum?

Letters. Letters, letters letters letters letters

#malkovic

[Cripps]

What do you know of what's required for being an Academy Manager and how does that relate to First Team issues with Wenger?

What other examples do you have?

You're arguing for arguments sake.

Step back and think logically.

[Power n Glory]

You're arguing for arguments sake.

Step back and think logically.

I'm thinking it through and it doesn't make sense to be so dismissive with so little information. Unless you know something else I don't. That's why I'm asking why you're drawing such conclusions. How are people in general able to spot a potential coach when still an active player?

[Letters]

I'm thinking it through and it doesn't make sense to be so dismissive with so little information.
:lol: That rules out about 90% of posts on here.

[Cripps]

I'm thinking it through and it doesn't make sense to be so dismissive with so little information. Unless you know something else I don't. That's why I'm asking why you're drawing such conclusions. How are people in general able to spot a potential coach when still an active player?

If I have to explain why the jump from player to head of academy is too much, then there's no hope. It's like asking cabin crew to fly the plane.

[Cripps]

:lol: That rules out about 90% of my posts on here.

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

If I have to explain why the jump from player to head of academy is too much, then there's no hope. It's like asking cabin crew to fly the plane.

Merts hasn't been a player for couple of seasons now. Depends what he's been doing behind the scenes.

Sucking Wenger's cock I suppose.

[Power n Glory]

If I have to explain why the jump from player to head of academy is too much, then there's no hope. It's like asking cabin crew to fly the plane.

But again, you have no information what he's doing behind the scenes. That's the problem. Plus, you have no idea what the Head of Academy has to do.

If you can tell me what's required for that role and why Merts shouldn't be considered for the role, I'll relax.

[Letters]

:gp:

<_< I see what you did there.

[Cripps]

But again, you have no information what he's doing behind the scenes. That's the problem. Plus, you have no idea what the Head of Academy has to do.

If you can tell me what's required for that role and why Merts shouldn't be considered for the role, I'll relax.

You're just being pedantic for pedantics sake. I'm not explaining why the jump from player to HOA is too much, especially from my phone. If you can't see it I seriously question your footballing judgement.

[Niall_Quinn]

You're just being pedantic for pedantics sake. I'm not explaining why the jump from player to HOA is too much, especially from my phone. If you can't see it I seriously question your footballing judgement.

Most pedants are pedantic for the sake of it. That's what makes them pedants.

[Cripps]

Most pedants are pedantic for the sake of it. That's what makes them pedants.

Stop being pedantic you pedantic pedant.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You're just being pedantic for pedantics sake. I'm not explaining why the jump from player to HOA is too much, especially from my phone. If you can't see it I seriously question your footballing judgement.

Actually for once I agree with him

If you can’t explain your objection to this appointment based on anything concrete, then it’s possible you don’t have an argument to begin with.

[Cripps]

Oh here he is :lol:

Knew it wouldn't be long before you came flying in to defend the club as usual :haha:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Oh here he is :lol:

Knew it wouldn't be long before you came flying in to defend the club as usual :haha:

Have you ever considered that it’s just you that are the common denominator

You’ve made a great reputation for yourself already
https://youtu.be/9dUoxruCh8c

“You disagree with me? You must love the taste of Wengers balls”

[Cripps]

:lol: the bullying of anti Wenger posters begins:rolleyes:

It's ok Herbert, you can come to terms with the fact that Wenger is finished :console:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:lol: the bullying of anti Wenger posters begins:rolleyes:

It's ok Herbert, you can come to terms with the fact that Wenger is finished :console:

You feel bullied sweetheart?

[Niall_Quinn]

Actually for once I agree with him

If you can’t explain your objection to this appointment based on anything concrete, then it’s possible you don’t have an argument to begin with.

Well if he hasn't got an argument then why are you being so argumentative?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well if he hasn't got an argument then why are you being so argumentative?

Well that’s more of a statement than an argument

But also its fun

I love his immediate recourse to straw man arguments

[Cripps]

Well that’s more of a statement than an argument

But also its fun

I love his immediate recourse to straw man arguments

At least I'm honest about where I stand with Wenger and don't try and cover it up :console:

[Letters]

I love his immediate recourse to straw man arguments
If he only had a brain...

[Cripps]

The usual moderator comes in to add fuel to the fire as always :lol:

[Cripps]

You feel bullied sweetheart?

Yeah :crying: soooo bullied :crying:

Please stop :crying:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

At least I'm honest about where I stand with Wenger and don't try and cover it up :console:

This is exactly the reason why you’re so fun to mess with. Because actually I think you genuinely believe what you’re saying

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Yeah :crying: soooo bullied :crying:

Please stop :crying:

You used the word.

You don’t have to be a big brave boy anymore.

There are plenty of safe spaces on the net for little girls I mean sensitive souls who get distressed when people don’t agree with them.

[Cripps]

Mess with?! :lol:

I chew you up on a daily basis :haha:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Mess with?! :lol:

I chew you up on a daily basis :haha:

Of course you do Champ

[Cripps]

You used the word.

You don’t have to be a big brave boy anymore.

There are plenty of safe spaces on the net for little girls I mean sensitive souls who get distressed when people don’t agree with them.

Owning you on a daily basis makes the day at work go quicker, I give you that:lol:

You haven't changed one bit, you were a sensitive soul back in the day and still are today :console:

[Letters]

:lol: I think I quite like him. Can we keep him?
Canwe, canwe, canwe?

[Letters]

(unless he expresses any anti-Wenger views of course, that's a banning...)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXQR-cPXlmY

[Cripps]

Won't be long before I'm banned like the conveyor belt of anti Wenger posters banned in the past :(

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Owning you on a daily basis makes the day at work go quicker, I give you that:lol:

You haven't changed one bit, you were a sensitive soul back in the day and still are today :console:

When you get to play with the toy steering wheel in your daddy’s car, does it feel like you’re controlling it

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Plus I don’t remember you at all

[Power n Glory]

Quality debate! Keep it going lads!

[Letters]

Yep. It's why this place is the most positive, pro-Wenger place on the net

Wenger :bow:

[Cripps]

When you get to play with the toy steering wheel in your daddy’s car, does it feel like you’re controlling it

:blink: another weird analogy and post from a creepy weird guy :unsure:

[Letters]

Quality debate! Keep it going lads!

So's your face :sulk:

[Cripps]

Quality debate! Keep it going lads!

A* for effort:bow:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:blink: another weird analogy and post from a creepy weird guy :unsure:

Go downstairs and tell your mum you’ve won the Internet

I need to head off to the burns unit

[Özim]

When you get to play with the toy steering wheel in your daddy’s car, does it feel like you’re controlling it

Depends if it's like one of those learning instructor cars that can be controlled from the passenger side., you could probably rig that up to a toy steering wheel.

[Letters]

Depends if it's like one of those learning instructor cars that can be controlled from the passenger side.

A career in comedy awaits.

[Özim]

So much interesting stuff to talk about with Arsenal these days that we resort to this. Could always go and see what secret transfers new WayneGooney is breaking on Twitter I suppose.

[Letters]

What IS there to talk about any more? :shrug:

[Özim]

A career in comedy awaits.

Think Wenger is in the queue for a comedy career ahead of me at the moment, he got in there before me after his wasted trip to the bottle bank.

[Özim]

What IS there to talk about any more? :shrug:

Not a lot I grant you that, we've been talking about the same things for the last 6 years at least, that's the trouble with things never changing really, we've got nothing new to say.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Aye. Same things that used to make me angry, now just make me laugh

The AGM for example was comedy gold. It was the club being a pastiche of itself

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger OUT!

[Gooner23]

Just reading more about Santi's injury. Sounds absolutely horrible.

Desperately hope he can make a come back this season, what a reception he'd get as well.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Just reading more about Santi's injury. Sounds absolutely horrible.

Desperately hope he can make a come back this season, what a reception he'd get as well.

Almost put me off my lunch

[Niall_Quinn]

Just reading more about Santi's injury. Sounds absolutely horrible.

Desperately hope he can make a come back this season, what a reception he'd get as well.

Lost 8 cm off his tendon? He's done, poor bastard. He won't be playing football again. How the hell did this all happen? Sounds more like medical malpractice than a football injury.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Lost 8 cm off his tendon? He's done, poor bastard. He won't be playing football again. How the hell did this all happen? Sounds more like medical malpractice than a football injury.

Involving horse placenta?

[Niall_Quinn]

Involving horse placenta?

Yes, horse penis.

[Letters]

Yes, horse penis.

I thought that pet name was reserved for our PMs :(

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I thought that pet name was reserved for our PMs :(

Theresa May is called Horse cock?

[selassie]

What I love about this place is that we can’t even be fucked to do a pre-match thread anymore.

[Niall_Quinn]

What I love about this place is that we can’t even be fucked to do a pre-match thread anymore.

Would you bother with foreplay if you were wedded to a cheap slag like Arsenal?

[Globalgunner]

We have a new manager
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41859461.

Let him manage both teams please.....unless he was scouted and recruited by Wenger, if so....more woe. Our women used to be the best in England (football wise). Now they are as duff as the men.
Wenger Out!

[Power n Glory]

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/infection-ate-my-achilles-tendon-reveals-arsenal-rsquo-s-cazorla/view/news/291969


Infection ate my Achilles tendon, reveals Arsenal’s Cazorla

Santi Cazorla was told his serious ankle injury might have left him unable to walk, but now insists he will return to action for Arsenal at the turn of the year.
The 32-year-old has not played for the Gunners since October 2016 and has undergone eight operations on the troublesome Achilles issue. Despite the drawn-out process, the Spain international remains determined to return to action – even after being told he would be lucky to walk properly following all of the procedures.

He also admitted to crying in pain as he tried to battle the injury – which first occurred in 2013 – while continuing to turn out for Arsenal.
“In the early stages it was feeling a little better, if I got warmed up I could play, but at the break when I cooled down a bit, I would cry,” he told Marca. “At that time I was still playing and they (doctors) told me it was okay. The problem was that it did not heal and the wounds would reopen and become infected.
“If you’re able to walk in the garden with your son again, you should be satisfied, they told me.”

After not being able to find a satisfactory resolution, Cazorla travelled back to Spain to see Dr Mikel Sanchez and had his Achilles tendon reconstructed.
“He saw that I had a tremendous infection,” added Cazorla. “It had damaged part of the calcaneus (heel) bone and had eaten eight centimetres of the Achilles tendon.”
Despite his travails, Cazorla is keen to return in 2018 and admitted being away from his family had proven to be the toughest part of his recovery.

“I won’t be registered until January, but I will be back by then,” he said.
“My family are still in London because my children have started school there, being alone without them is the hardest thing.”
Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger said in September that he was also hopeful Cazorla would return in the new year.

‘The flexibility of his ankle and his mobility looks good,” the Frenchman said.
“It’s now about getting back to full fitness without having any setbacks. It’s very difficult not to set a time before Christmas, that’s why I didn’t involve him in the Europa League.
“But overall, after Christmas I hope he will be available. He has not played for over a year now, so you’re always cautious to set a time or date. But overall it looks positive.”

Arsenal medical staff....an absolute shambles. Santi shouldn't have had to go back to Spain to get a proper diagnosis.

[Cripps]

Contracts expiring this summer:

Sanchez
Wilshere
Ozil

Contracts expiring next summer:
Giroud
Ramsey
Walcott
Welbeck
Monreal
Cech
Ospina
Debuchy
Apkom

I know most of them are crap but are we gonna have a team to put out?:lol:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Contracts expiring this summer:

Sanchez
Wilshere
Ozil

Contracts expiring next summer:
Giroud
Ramsey
Walcott
Welbeck
Monreal
Cech
Ospina
Debuchy
Apkom

I know most of them are crap but are we gonna have a team to put out?:lol:

It’s ideal to use Wengers parlance

[Niall_Quinn]

Little bit humour from interwebs this morning:


Mickey mouse has got a Arsene Wenger Watch

[Cripps]

Giroud injured on France duty:doh:

[Cripps]

Ruben loftus-zidane's dad has hit out at Jose saying he ruined his career :rolleyes:

Don't feel sorry for him one bit. Why would you sign for chelsea if you're a young player? :lol:

And he signed a 5 year deal last year:doh:

[Niall_Quinn]

What is it with this Lionel Cheek kid?

We know about the next great English hope thing, been there, seen that, laughed. Etc, etc.

But this seems a little OTT even for the English media. Is this how it goes now? Kid doesn't fuck up in a meaningless game, agent spots the angle, Man Utd bid a billion because they just can't help themselves?

It's all about the money. Every last bit of it. There's no football in there any more and certainly no trace of sanity.

[Özim]

Arsenal most expensive club in the PL apparently our cheapest season ticket is £891, Chelsea is next on £750, absolute joke to be honest

Wengers' reaction (on BBC)


Nothing better than being inside a stadium - Wenger


Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger has been asked for his reaction to BBC's Price of Football study, which shows the price of tickets is putting off some young fans from attending games.

"I think nothing is better than to share the experience of being inside a stadium," said Wenger.

"There are many ingredients in the modern game, people's lifestyles are a bit different, they play less and play more on computers. After that, can you afford to go when you are young?

"That is not always easy."

:lol: I see so it's nothing to do with the cost, it's to do with buying and playing computer games. The guy is truly a clown.

Overpriced, worst value for money in football no doubt, all the other top clubs charge less. Even with the cost to watch us score a goal we're 19th in the PL only above Southampton last season.

[Letters]

And yet they keep filling the stadium :shrug:
Supply and demand, innit. We are just a business trying to maximise income.
At some point the fans may collectively snap but there's not much sign of that right now.

[Özim]

Yes they do, I really don't get it, the football is poor, our results overall are mixed and the cost is astronomical.

Yes it's clear we're trying to maximise profit, but so are other (more successful) clubs who also spend a lot more on transfers and yet they charge less. Is that not ripping people off because you can rather than just being a business, a business also has to look after it's customers, they clearly don't think so.

When you spend the amount of money you need to spend to go to Arsenal (there's travel/food costs etc as well), surely an element of is it value for money has to come into it. It's not a drop in the ocean for most people.

[Letters]

The results at home at least are generally quite good.
The way they exploit the fans is pretty disgraceful but from a business point of view it makes sense.

[Letters]

Interestingly, the BBC article about this says that the prices are putting young fans off so this might be not the wisest long term strategy.

[Cripps]

Yes they do, I really don't get it, the football is poor, our results overall are mixed and the cost is astronomical.

Yes it's clear we're trying to maximise profit, but so are other (more successful) clubs who also spend a lot more on transfers and yet they charge less. Is that not ripping people off because you can rather than just being a business, a business also has to look after it's customers, they clearly don't think so.

When you spend the amount of money you need to spend to go to Arsenal (there's travel/food costs etc as well), surely an element of is it value for money has to come into it. It's not a drop in the ocean for most people.

Most are waking up now and realising the club for what it is. I think a lot go because of habit and ritual, even if they don't like what they see. But even that will fade as our gradual decline continues and disullusionment grows, especially in tough economic times when people are looking to save money. The fun is being taken out of Arsenal and when there's no fun, what's the point:shrug:

The problem is the tourists and as we are London you'd think there'll always be a steady stream of tourists to snap up tickets. The club seem to be happy to shun the core fan base for these people, but you'd like to think if our gradual decline continues and we continue to slide, even tourists will probably not want to come watch us. Who wants to watch a mediocre, unentertaining team :shrug: Then the club will be f*cked :shrug:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Six trophies in the last three years and the Emirates Cup wins too. :scarf:

[Marc Overmars]

They can charge whatever they want and they’ll still have a full house for the majority of games because of our profile. The prices are the reason the Emirates has no soul, nowhere else in world represents how the culture of going to a match has changed more than Arsenal. It’s like a theatre production now.

[Letters]

They can charge whatever they want and they’ll still have a full house for the majority of games because of our profile. The prices are the reason the Emirates has no soul, nowhere else in world represents how the culture of going to a match has changed more than Arsenal. It’s like a theatre production now.

Were you there when the announcer called us "the audience"? :lol:

:doh:

[Marc Overmars]

Can’t say I recall that but it wouldn’t surprise me.

I was having a browse at tickets the other day but had to stop myself. I love watching live football so being on my armchair now is shit, but I’m just not going give those cunts any more money until I see some change and the fans given the respect they deserve.

[Letters]

MK Dons is an option for you, no? If you want to watch live football.
But, from experience, it's bloody rubbish.

[Cripps]

Can’t say I recall that but it wouldn’t surprise me.

I was having a browse at tickets the other day but had to stop myself. I love watching live football so being on my armchair now is shit, but I’m just not going give those cunts any more money until I see some change and the fans given the respect they deserve.

Won't be happening for a while pal :coffee:

Fans sat back and bankrolled their wealth and power and now we're in a situation where we can't do much :coffee:

It's a waiting game :coffee:

[Cripps]

MK Dons is an option for you, no? If you want to watch live football.
But, from experience, it's bloody rubbish.

Isn't it ironic, the man that was behind Wenger and vehemently against anyone saying a bad word about him now advocating watching lower league football because he's disillusioned with the state of the club:lol:

[Marc Overmars]

MK Dons is an option for you, no? If you want to watch live football.
But, from experience, it's bloody rubbish.

Been to a few games and it was fun for a bit but ultimately my enjoyment of football is intrinsically linked with the Arsenal.

[Letters]

Been to a few games and it was fun for a bit but ultimately my enjoyment of football is intrinsically linked with the Arsenal.

It is hard to be as bothered about anyone else.
My in-laws have taken me a few times but it wasn't as much fun as I thought it would be.
Probably wouldn't bother going again.
Nice little stadium though, lot of potential there as it's a one club town with quite a big population.

[GP]

It is hard to be as bothered about anyone else.
My in-laws have taken me a few times but it wasn't as much fun as I thought it would be.
Probably wouldn't bother going again.
Nice little stadium though, lot of potential there as it's a one club town with quite a big population.

It's the same with me. I live in Reading but I've no interest in going to see them play.

[Cripps]

Wenger says he has 'complete trust' in Lacazette, which is why he didn't start him away to Liverpool and Man city :lol:

Nutty professor Wenger :bow:

[Özim]

The results at home at least are generally quite good.
The way they exploit the fans is pretty disgraceful but from a business point of view it makes sense.

Results yes, performances no however, quite a few games where we've been poor and scraped a result, it's fine once in a while but we seem to underperform quite often.

[Özim]

Most are waking up now and realising the club for what it is. I think a lot go because of habit and ritual, even if they don't like what they see. But even that will fade as our gradual decline continues and disullusionment grows, especially in tough economic times when people are looking to save money. The fun is being taken out of Arsenal and when there's no fun, what's the point:shrug:

The problem is the tourists and as we are London you'd think there'll always be a steady stream of tourists to snap up tickets. The club seem to be happy to shun the core fan base for these people, but you'd like to think if our gradual decline continues and we continue to slide, even tourists will probably not want to come watch us. Who wants to watch a mediocre, unentertaining team :shrug: Then the club will be f*cked :shrug:

it's obviously less popular than it was, people still seem to buy into it somehwat, the discontent is still not what it would be at any other club, despite some pretty despicable behaviour from the club.

I can't think why any tourist would want to go to Arsenal to be honest, it's not like we're Barcelona and winning the big prizes regularly or have a history of being a big club in Europe winning the CL. Chelsea would surely be more appealing, it's cheaper and they are more successful, indeed won't be long before Spurs take over from us as well especially after beating Real and because they play much better football.

If people haven't caught on we're a bore to watch ny now, there's no hope for them, even foreign coverage is pretty negative about Arsenal citing all the issues we have and how we can't really mix it with the big boys. There's a lot more criticism of Arsenal by pundits all over the world than there ever was before.

[Özim]

Won't be happening for a while pal :coffee:

Fans sat back and bankrolled their wealth and power and now we're in a situation where we can't do much :coffee:

It's a waiting game :coffee:

It seems to me there's not hunger to do anything, the fan base really don't kick up much of a fuss, they seem to put up and shut up, there's a resignation that nothing can be done and that let's just turn up to support the team. All that's doing really is financing the people upstairs and letting them walk all over the fans, it's a double edged sword, if nothing is ever done, nothing will ever change.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's the same with me. I live in Reading but I've no interest in going to see them play.

Quite surprised you have retained an interest in any aspect of life. I've been to Reading.

[GP]

Quite surprised you have retained an interest in any aspect of life. I've been to Reading.

Reading is lovely. I almost got to work without being mugged today.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

On the plus side, you made a couple of quid today.

[Cripps]

It seems to me there's not hunger to do anything, the fan base really don't kick up much of a fuss, they seem to put up and shut up, there's a resignation that nothing can be done and that let's just turn up to support the team. All that's doing really is financing the people upstairs and letting them walk all over the fans, it's a double edged sword, if nothing is ever done, nothing will ever change.

Yep. Our fan base are a conservative, timid lot. Just sit on their arse and shrug their shoulders instead of doing anything. No wonder we've been raped by the board and owner, they've taken the fan base for what they are- mugs :lol:
Now they go and watch MK Dons play because they're dissatisfied because of what's happening at Arsenal :haha:
Shouldn't they go and watch spurs? They kept telling us to do it over the years.

[Letters]

I think the fanbase should be a lot more proactive in their protests. Watch games at home. Post on messageboards all day and say how bad it is.
That is the only way to affect real change. If that doesn't work, add smileys.
Vive la revolution!

[GP]

I think the fanbase should be a lot more proactive in their protests. Watch games at home. Post on messageboards all day and say how bad it is.
That is the only way to affect real change. If that doesn't work, add smileys.
Vive la revolution!

I find one way to really grab people's attention is to fake your own death.

[Letters]

I find one way to really grab people's attention is to fake your own death.

Dunno.
Pretending to be a French tennis player and his own girlfriend works quite well.

Or just having multiple accounts like me and Letters

[Letters]

Or just having multiple accounts like me and Letters
:doh:

Thought I was posting from my HCZ account.

:coffee:

[Cripps]

Alex Scott on MOTD 2 extra.

She is f*cking insane.

[Niall_Quinn]

True? False? Subject to Wenger stomping all over it?

Never heard of the guy, apart from what I have read here:
https://le-grove.co.uk/2017/11/17/catalyst-for-change-ivan-gazidis-drops-hero-signing/

[Cripps]

Are we starting to see a power struggle between arsene and Ivan? I can't imagine arsene is too happy with Steve Rowley being moved on. Maybe Ivan is making decisions over wengers head to show him what's what, after being ridiculed last season. Maybe he wants to show Wenger whos boss.

Finally someone standing up to Wenger:bow:

[Özim]

Are we starting to see a power struggle between arsene and Ivan? I can't imagine arsene is too happy with Steve Rowley being moved on. Maybe Ivan is making decisions over wengers head to show him what's what, after being ridiculed last season. Maybe he wants to show Wenger whos boss.

Finally someone standing up to Wenger:bow:

Rowley was reported to be wanting to leave because he'd had enough

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5063555/Arsenal-chief-scout-Steve-Rowley-set-quit-Gunners.html

I think we're just scouting out a replacement.

[Letters]

http://newsthump.com/2017/11/20/robert-mugabe-seeks-advice-from-arsene-wenger-on-how-to-cling-to-power/

:lol:

[Cripps]

Rowley was reported to be wanting to leave because he'd had enough

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5063555/Arsenal-chief-scout-Steve-Rowley-set-quit-Gunners.html

I think we're just scouting out a replacement.

Sounds as if gazidis has said some home truths which has riled and annoyed Rowley.

[GP]

https://www.arsenal.com/news/sven-mislintat-appointed-head-recruitment

About time we sorted out our recruitment.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Sounds as if gazidis has said some home truths which has riled and annoyed Rowley.

Jesus is that what Rowley looks like?

Looks like Brian Dennehy

[Özim]

Signing these guys for the backroom is all very good but it only really works with the right working environment where you have the freedom to do as you please, that doesn't exist at Arsenal with Wenger in charge.

Don't expect to see players like Aubameyang or Dembele anytime soon, Wenger will always have final say and he'll be wanting to keep his track record of almost signing worldies intact.

[Marc Overmars]

I can't remember the last player we bought where I felt we'd unearthed a gem. It's mostly been a mash up of overpriced and overrated junk.

Lets hope this guy can find us some top players. We might have money now but it's not an unlimited supply, so its vital that our recruitment is on point in order for us to compete with the top teams. Spurs have shown the improvements that can be made with simple coaching combined with good recruitment.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger needs to get the fuck out of the way now and let this guy do a job he's already proved he can do.

Alas, I can already see Wenger inviting him into his office to share the latest great master plan and show his his, "My Way or the Highway", coffee mug.