Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

[LDG]

Strange nobody remembers when they completely mugged themselves off.

Why can’t people just rationally state they were wrong? Weird.

I was wrong when I said we needed more back up at full back before the season started.

Oh no. I wasn’t. I was right.

[HCZ_Reborn]

There’s been a lengthy habit by our fan base to defend sub par players and make them out to be something extraordinary

Aaron Ramsey - I’ve never seen so much hype over a player who couldn’t pass even under no pressure, couldn’t run and who it was obvious other players in the team wouldn’t pass to


Freddie Ljungberg - I bet you you’ll still get fans sing about him now even though he was ridiculously overrated. Link up play was horrible, often completely absent in games. Like Overmars if he wasn’t scoring goals you wonder what the point of him was


Vermaelen couldn’t defend, especially not set pieces and was mainly liked because he scored goals for us


Lauren totally average full back

[LDG]

But all of them came good at some point when you needed something.

Apart from TV5

[Mac76]

But all of them came good at some point when you needed something.



There was a run of games where Ljungberg could barely stop scoring, i forget which season

[HCZ_Reborn]

There was a run of games where Ljungberg could barely stop scoring, i forget which season

Ramsey went through similar patch, didn’t make him a good player

[Letters]

Just heard that FA Cup and CL Knockout games are not included in our season ticket next year :lol:

[Letters]

There’s been a lengthy habit by our fan base to defend sub par players and make them out to be something extraordinary
I actually think there’s more of a tendency to do the exact opposite, certainly on here the “sell him, he’s shit” crowd make out that most of our players are terrible when they obviously aren’t.

[Mac76]

Just heard that FA Cup and CL Knockout games are not included in our season ticket next year :lol:

We've known that for ages, can"t remember the reason but I suspect it's because they know we'll probably get knocked out of both early

[LDG]

Ramsey went through similar patch, didn’t make him a good player

So does that mean unless you’re Henry, Bergkamp, Pires or Vieira, you’re a shit overrated cunt?

Why do people think in such wanky ways?

Stuck up fuck off

[LDG]

There was a run of games where Ljungberg could barely stop scoring, i forget which season

Season we won the league.

Useless cunt he was

[HCZ_Reborn]

So does that mean unless you’re Henry, Bergkamp, Pires or Vieira, you’re a shit overrated cunt?

Why do people think in such wanky ways?

Stuck up fuck off


Ljungberg is put in the pantheon of players like Henry, Vieira, Pires and Bergkamp by fans and he absolutely doesn’t deserve that.


Ramsey though was just shit. Embarrassing that we persisted with him. He went to Juventus and was found out quickly

[Mac76]

Ramsey went through similar patch, didn’t make him a good player

read that carefully and think about it

[HCZ_Reborn]

Going through a goal scoring patch doesn’t make you a good player. Especially when you’re in central midfield and you have multiple functions, scoring goals not being the highest of these.

Ramsey was shit, couldn’t pass, couldn’t dribble, couldn’t tackle. You know it and I know it

[Mac76]

I honestly thought this was a joke when i first saw it but no...

btw love some of the comments - "better signing than Holding" :lol:

https://twitter.com/Gunnersc0m/status/1659475567777914880

[HCZ_Reborn]

Arteta has got a Dog for the Training ground, a chocolate Labrador bitch

Don’t know what I think of that, whether it will be motivational or a distraction. I’m not against the idea as I love dogs myself but will see if players feel the same way

[Marc Overmars]

Going through a goal scoring patch doesn’t make you a good player. Especially when you’re in central midfield and you have multiple functions, scoring goals not being the highest of these.

Ramsey was shit, couldn’t pass, couldn’t dribble, couldn’t tackle. You know it and I know it

Don’t think he was as bad as you’re making out but I do agree he was incredibly limited. Good engine and a nack of scoring goals but as a footballer he was about as basic as you get.

[Mac76]

Arteta has got a Dog for the Training ground, a chocolate Labrador bitch

Don’t know what I think of that, whether it will be motivational or a distraction. I’m not against the idea as I love dogs myself but will see if players feel the same way

It's a terrible idea, as you imply he's not taking into account anyone else's viewpoint but his own

I pity any poor player who is allergic to, or simply doesn't like, dogs - they'll be bench fodder in no time*



*apart from Zin ofc, if he doesn't like the dog it'll be put down

[Letters]

Arteta has got a Dog for the Training ground, a chocolate Labrador bitch

Don’t know what I think of that, whether it will be motivational or a distraction. I’m not against the idea as I love dogs myself but will see if players feel the same way

We should have got an Alsation, in deference to Wenger.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Don’t think he was as bad as you’re making out but I do agree he was incredibly limited. Good engine and a nack of scoring goals but as a footballer he was about as basic as you get.

But that’s the point, aren’t you tired of seeing players who are “incredibly limited” in the Arsenal shirt. Ramsey, Xhaka etc always seems to be in midfield as well

[Mac76]

I hate all this gimmicky shite like ultras, anthems and dogs - all we need is for Arteta to learn to rotate the squad, vary teams and tactics and take a course on neurodiversity

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's a terrible idea, as you imply he's not taking into account anyone else's viewpoint but his own

I pity any poor player who is allergic to, or simply doesn't like, dogs - they'll be bench fodder in no time*



*apart from Zin ofc, if he doesn't like the dog it'll be put down


I was more implying that if we have some Muzzas in the team they might consider dogs haram. Though apart from Xhaka and Elneny I don’t think we have any devotees to the “religion of peace”

Most of our lot are either unaffiliated or Bible bashers like Saka

[Marc Overmars]

But that’s the point, aren’t you tired of seeing players who are “incredibly limited” in the Arsenal shirt. Ramsey, Xhaka etc always seems to be in midfield as well

With Xhaka moving on, that’s pretty much all the remnants of Wenger’s dying days gone.

I know you don’t like Rice but he is significantly better than Xhaka. That’s an immediate upgrade

[HCZ_Reborn]

With Xhaka moving on, that’s pretty much all the remnants of Wenger’s dying days gone.

I know you don’t like Rice but he is significantly better than Xhaka. That’s an immediate upgrade


Not a like for like is it, Rice is a defensive midfielder he’s not going to play the no 8 role.

And I think Rice is massively overrated.

If we want to spend a lot on a midfielder it should be Caicedo. We clearly aren’t signing both

[Marc Overmars]

Not a like for like is it, Rice is a defensive midfielder he’s not going to play the no 8 role.

And I think Rice is massively overrated.

If we want to spend a lot on a midfielder it should be Caicedo. We clearly aren’t signing both

I’d rather we didn’t have an 8 role anyway. Would prefer someone like Rice who’s very robust to sit with Partey and help transition play a lot quicker than we currently do. Rice can play box to box too at least. The role Xhaka played this year was fun for a bit until it meant our midfield getting absolutely overrun. We conceded a shit ton of goals this year and as far as I’m concerned a lot of that came from a lack of midfield control.

Caicedo would be great too but I think Brighton would make that very difficult for us. Where as West Ham wouldn’t stand in the way of Rice moving on.

[Mac76]

I’d rather we didn’t have an 8 role anyway. Would prefer someone like Rice who’s very robust to sit with Partey and help transition play a lot quicker than we currently do. Rice can play box to box too at least. The role Xhaka played this year was fun for a bit until it meant our midfield getting absolutely overrun. We conceded a shit ton of goals this year and as far as I’m concerned a lot of that came from a lack of midfield control.

Caicedo would be great too but I think Brighton would make that very difficult for us. Where as West Ham wouldn’t stand in the way of Rice moving on.

i think that's right, Xhaka slowed things down at times (also my one of my several big issues with Zin that he does the same), we're often so slow in transition and it's not made us any more secure at the back without Saliba to tidy things up

I'd much prefer Caicedo but I guess if Rice is already leaving as you say he's easier to get, provided we make him feel he's first choice

Got to say though, personally i don't know why any player would want to come to a club where players are frozen out or discarded so completely and so arbitrarily by the manager, for reasons of subservience rather than whether they can do a job for the club

[HCZ_Reborn]

i think that's right, Xhaka slowed things down at times (also my one of my several big issues with Zin that he does the same), we're often so slow in transition and it's not made us any more secure at the back without Saliba to tidy things up

I'd much prefer Caicedo but I guess if Rice is already leaving as you say he's easier to get, provided we make him feel he's first choice

Got to say though, personally i don't know why any player would want to some to a club where players are frozen out or discarded so completely and so arbitrarily by the manager, for reasons of subservience rather than whether they can do a job for the club

Now I’m largely of the view that it was only going to be a matter of time before Arteta froze someone out.

But honestly you incessantly whinging like a woman on the blob about this makes me hope Trossard appears on the team sheet so it will shut you up

I don’t suppose it will though, that would take humility

[Mac76]

oh dear, he really has lost all sanity now... :rose:

https://twitter.com/TheAFCnewsroom/status/1659482756668182528

[Mac76]

Now I’m largely of the view that it was only going to be a matter of time before Arteta froze someone out.

But honestly you incessantly whinging like a woman on the blob about this makes me hope Trossard appears on the team sheet so it will shut you up

I don’t suppose it will though, that would take humility

wow, both blatant sexism and religious prejudice in the space of about 30 mins - what next - burn the gays?

[Letters]

oh dear, he really has lost all sanity now... :rose:

https://twitter.com/TheAFCnewsroom/status/1659482756668182528

Holy shit, dude.
It's completely obvious what he's saying. We have the best side in Europe in the PL. Arguably the best ever PL side. And we've pushed them pretty much all the way. No-one else has. Of course it's disappointing we didn't finish the job, but no-one thought we were going to finish 2nd this year or have a serious title challenge - those things are independent, we finished 2nd to Leicester but never seriously threatened them, we've pushed City into going full beast mode to overhaul us.

It's still mathematically possible we could win the league. We won't clearly, and I don't believe he thinks we will either. But what's he supposed to say? If he said it was over he'd get hammered for that :shrug:

[HCZ_Reborn]

wow, both blatant sexism and religious prejudice in the space of about 30 mins - what next - burn the gays?

Well given I was equally scathing of Islam and Christianity, I’ve at least showed my ecumenism

Honestly though who cares, it’s no more nascent than your whinging about everything Arteta does. Who gives a fuck if he gets a dog or a capybara for the training ground?

I wouldn’t say anything like burn the gays on here, there’s far too many people who would take it personally

[Mac76]

Honestly though who cares, it’s no more nascent than your whinging about everything Arteta does. Who gives a fuck if he gets a dog or a capybara for the training ground?



ah of course, sorry, i mistook this for a forum where people could discuss matters relating to Arsenal, including the extent to which the manager is doing a good job and if not why not

sorry i'll try to remember that's not the case in future

[HCZ_Reborn]

ah of course, sorry, i mistook this for a forum where people could discuss matters relating to Arsenal, including the extent to which the manager is doing a good job and if not why not

sorry i'll try to remember that's not the case in future


You can talk about what you like, and I can accuse you of being on your period when you voluminously do so

Seems like a fair arrangement

[Letters]

:lol:

Honestly, you two. You're like me and NQ, just much more entertaining.

[HCZ_Reborn]

:lol:

Honestly, you two. You're like me and NQ, just much more entertaining.

Not that I’d ever say anything as cruel as this place is a microcosm of society

But this debate is a symbol of how we’ve lost our balls somewhat

It feels like people believe they have the right to be protected from ridicule

This place especially has lost something, the quality of winding up has fallen right through the floor. I feel like I’m Atlas holding it all up

Just feels sad to me that we as a society are afraid to be unpleasant to each other anymore

[Letters]

Are you saying it’s political correctness gone mad?

[Mac76]

You can talk about what you like, and I can accuse you of being on your period when you voluminously do so

Seems like a fair arrangement

well i'm tempted to ignore the obvious trolling but the difference is my criticising Arteta isn't offensive as such on a general level, whereas using crude and insulting gender stereotypes potentially is to someone reading this - not that anyone apart from a few sad geezers does read it but still :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

well i'm tempted to ignore the obvious trolling but the difference is my criticising Arteta isn't offensive as such on a general level, whereas using crude and insulting gender stereotypes potentially is to someone reading this - not that anyone apart from a few sad geezers does read it but still :lol:

I wasn’t saying it was a like for like exchange

I personally feel the whole Arteta thing has been exhausted. So when I’m bored of it and no one has anything substantive to add to it, I’m just going to engage in needless polemics…because that is fun

As you say this place is filled with middle aged guys (assumedly all or nearly all white). I could roll out the Bernard Manning material and no one’s going to get too upset.

Plus using that logic, me referring to Arteta as being on the spectrum could be ableist but you don’t give a fuck (and why should you?)

I don’t believe in being gratuitously hurtful to people, but given that I don’t consider any of you as being people

[Letters]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzvjfEeYQwQ

:lol:

[Mac76]

good find :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzvjfEeYQwQ

:lol:


And now? Different kit for each match

[mandela8]

Any predicted line ups?

Reckon hell change it up at all?

Not really sure where he can unless he pulls summin unseen out. Just the Trossard/Nelson call, which should be straightforward unless there really is a sub plot developing as per Mac's video.

There's absolutely no point playing Xhaka, so would be good to let Viera or ESR play.

[Mac76]

This is Arteta we're talking about, it'll be the same as last week

[mandela8]

This is Arteta we're talking about, it'll be the same as last week

Haha

That's the odds on bet, tbf.

[Mac76]

I haven't paid much attention to the CL but my understanding is we don't play teams in the same 'Pot' so with Juve being deducted 10 points and our subsequently moving into 'Pot 2' we avoid Bayern, Atletico, Real and Man Utd for now

sounds good to me :good:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwwJG93WIBEMHon?format=jpg&name=small

[HCZ_Reborn]

Apart from the money and prestige, the competition doesn’t interest me much because the five seasons we did in the Europa league we didn’t manage to win it once. We are not a team that is especially accomplished in European competition and I don’t see that changing anytime soon…..quarter finals is the absolutely furthest I think we will get.

[Letters]

Look away now, mandela

https://metro.co.uk/2023/05/23/bukayo-saka-arsenal-star-signs-new-long-term-contract-18830609

[Marc Overmars]

Glad to see the club are on top of contracts now.

No more will he, won’t he sagas and no more being left with awful deadwood we can’t shift.

[Marc Overmars]

Apart from the money and prestige, the competition doesn’t interest me much because the five seasons we did in the Europa league we didn’t manage to win it once. We are not a team that is especially accomplished in European competition and I don’t see that changing anytime soon…..quarter finals is the absolutely furthest I think we will get.

Considering we haven’t competed in a CL quarter final since 2010 that would represent a decent campaign and should be the target. Arteta hasn’t impressed me in Europe though and I do think we might be in for a rough ride unless some real quality is added to the squad. If we don’t improve defensively I’m not even sure we’ll get out of the group.

But yeah, I do resent the fact that despite our size we have precious little to speak of in terms of European success. I don’t think there is a bigger club in the world than us with a weaker European pedigree.

[mandela8]

Look away now, mandela

https://metro.co.uk/2023/05/23/bukayo-saka-arsenal-star-signs-new-long-term-contract-18830609

Relieved he's signed a new contract.

If that's correct, that's he's the highest paid player at the club, then that's an insane piece of business that sets a very precarious precedent. Plenty players who'll be seeing and measuring themselves against him every day will, rightly, be demanding more than him.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65646318

BBC doing one of its soapy tit wank pieces on Arteta

Born to be a manager? Fuck me…Josef Fritzl said he was born to Rape

[Chippy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65646318

BBC doing one of its soapy tit wank pieces on Arteta

Born to be a manager? Fuck me…Josef Fritzl said he was born to Rape

:arry:

[Letters]

Baby I was born to run.

[LDG]

What is wrong with Arteta? I don’t get it! He’s done a brilliant job :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

What is wrong with Arteta? I don’t get it! He’s done a brilliant job :lol:

I know you don’t get it.

We just have very polar opposite definitions of what a brilliant job is

I don’t consider 37 defeats from 133 league games a brilliant job

I don’t consider three wins from last 9 games conceding almost two goals a game in that time a brilliant job

I don’t consider managing only 17 clean sheets from 65 home league games a brilliant job

I don’t consider freezing out one of the best left backs in the league to play a luxury signing a brilliant job

We’ve spent almost 400 million on players since he’s been here , to have qualified for the Champions league after three years is the absolute bare minimum we could ask for…and don’t give me that shit about the state of the team he inherited. The team he inherited finished 5th the previous season.

Guy is a complete and total fraud

[LDG]

:haha:

[GP]

:gp:

[Letters]

We’ve spent almost 400 million on players since he’s been here , to have qualified for the Champions league after three years is the absolute bare minimum we could ask for…
Well, I agree. It was definitely Top 4 or bust this year. But Arteta has delivered far more than that. You can cherry pick stats to make him look bad if you like. I could do the same. Look:
This year we've scored more goals than The Invincibles and with 3 games to go could have got the same points as they got. Even having lost the last 2, if we win on the final day we'll end up with our second highest ever PL total.
(As I've said I suspect after City beat Everton the players knew the game was up and rather gave up. I am annoyed about that, it isn't good enough, but I reckon that's what happened).

Look. The bottom line is you didn't expect a title challenge this year. Nor did I. Nor did anyone. But that's what Arteta has delivered. We were genuine contenders this year. We were the only team to really push City. And were we not up against an absolute machine in City we'd probably have been Champions this year. I think Arteta himself has noted that the same people who were saying we'd struggle to finish Top 4 are now whining that we didn't win the league. Holy logical inconsistency, Batman! Here were your pre-season predictions:

League Position:5th or 6th unless we sign a central midfielder
Mind the gap?: Spurs will finish above us

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5092

And now you're moaning your tits off because we didn't win the league? Have a word with yourself.
Now, that doesn't mean that Arteta doesn't deserve criticism, the collapse at the end hasn't been good enough. My gut feel is City would have won it anyway, but to not push them to the last day is pathetic.
But the progress this season has been clear. To not acknowledge that is perverse. Whether Arteta can take us any further is debatable, but he has absolutely earned the right to try.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well, I agree. It was definitely Top 4 or bust this year. But Arteta has delivered far more than that. You can cherry pick stats to make him look bad if you like. I could do the same. Look:
This year we've scored more goals than The Invincibles and with 3 games to go could have got the same points as they got. Even having lost the last 2, if we win on the final day we'll end up with our second highest ever PL total.
(As I've said I suspect after City beat Everton the players knew the game was up and rather gave up. I am annoyed about that, it isn't good enough, but I reckon that's what happened).

Look. The bottom line is you didn't expect a title challenge this year. Nor did I. Nor did anyone. But that's what Arteta has delivered. We were genuine contenders this year. We were the only team to really push City. And were we not up against an absolute machine in City we'd probably have been Champions this year. I think Arteta himself has noted that the same people who were saying we'd struggle to finish Top 4 are now whining that we didn't win the league. Holy logical inconsistency, Batman! Here were your pre-season predictions:

League Position:5th or 6th unless we sign a central midfielder
Mind the gap?: Spurs will finish above us

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5092

And now you're moaning your tits off because we didn't win the league? Have a word with yourself.
Now, that doesn't mean that Arteta doesn't deserve criticism, the collapse at the end hasn't been good enough. My gut feel is City would have won it anyway, but to not push them to the last day is pathetic.
But the progress this season has been clear. To not acknowledge that is perverse. Whether Arteta can take us any further is debatable, but he has absolutely earned the right to try.


I’m sorry you don’t like my critique of Arteta. But again it’s not that we haven’t won the league it’s that we’ve dropped 15 points from the last 8 games when challenging for the league. It’s not just disappointing, it’s unacceptable. City may well have won it anyway, but the point I keep trying to hammer home again, and again and again is that what City did or didn’t do didn’t matter it’s what we didn’t do.
There’s two arguments to be made about the collapse, one is that we didn’t rotate the squad enough throughout the season much in the same way we didn’t last season and second is that there was a mental collapse. 2-0 up and relatively comfortable in back to back games only to struggle to come away with a draw, a humbling by Southampton a team that has meekly surrendered its place in the premier league was made to look like dogged fighters in the 3-3 draw with us.
When I call Arteta a fraud maybe I’m being uncharitable because it’s not him coming out with all this trust the process horse manure, or fawning articles about what a tactical genius he is. He isn’t, there’s no evidence that he’s anything but a very average coach who has the good fortune to have been allowed to spend vast amounts of money for someone with no prior managerial experience…not only that but he seems to enjoy as much power and control as Wenger had when he was here (now I think Wenger had too much power, but he at least had earned it)

There’s also a bit of strawmanning going on, I haven’t advocated for Arteta’s sacking…the absolute dross out there means that it would be far better for the moment at least to stick rather than twist. But we should do so with an eye to looking to see if there are coaches out there who can improve us, watch what Edin Terzic does should he win the Bundesliga.
Not just him but Eddie Howe, Thomas Frank, De Zerbi etc…not saying any of them are better than Arteta but going to be an interesting season next season for many of these coaches as to whether they can prove their credentials.

Ultimately we haven’t achieved more than top four in any tangible sense. If we’d kept the title challenge going to the end of the season it could be said, but no we have met our minimum objective only.

[Letters]

I’m sorry you don’t like my critique of Arteta. But again it’s not that we haven’t won the league it’s that we’ve dropped 15 points from the last 8 games when challenging for the league. It’s not just disappointing, it’s unacceptable.
Even that is a bit "lies, damned lies and statistics".
You're right, of course. Those are the numbers. But the first of those games was at Anfield where I think even you agree it was a fairly creditable point.
I suspect had we got to HT at 2-0 we'd have won. Fine lines. The next two games I have no defence for, we shouldn't be dropping points at West Ham having cruised into a 2-0 lead. And while I guess they deserve some credit for coming back from 3-1 down so late vs Southampton, we shouldn't be down by that score in the first place. But then the next game was at The Ethiad. I was disappointed by how easily they dispatched us but look what they did to Real Madrid. City are just at a different level from us, and everyone. I actually think our response to that bad run was pretty good. Obviously we should be beating Chelsea given their awful form this year, but we did. And it was a very good win up at Newcastle. The last two...well, as I said, I think we just gave up. I am frustrated about that, City were going to win it but make them win it. Don't just give up. Not acceptable.


City may well have won it anyway, but the point I keep trying to hammer home again, and again and again is that what City did or didn’t do didn’t matter it’s what we didn’t do.
Well, I think it's a bit of both. We could certainly have done more. But I can't help feel that City's relentless march was going to mow us down in the end anyway. Before the Everton vs City / Arsenal v Brighton weekend City were only a point above us with a game in hand. And that's after they beat us in both head to heads. Just one or two slips in that relentless run from City and we'd have been ahead of them and arguably favourites. It must be dispiriting to win 7 games in a row and the team chasing you just keep winning too. We always knew we had the harder run in. We always knew that squad depth could be an issue for us. But I'm disappointed that we gift wrapped it for them over the last couple of weeks and handed it to them without them having to kick a ball.

I'm not saying Arteta is beyond reproach. There's definite room for improvement. I haven't heard anyone call him a tactical genius or overly fawn over him. But there's been clear progress. Yes, we've spent money but as Chelsea have shown you can throw money around and not get anywhere if there's no strategy.


Ultimately we haven’t achieved more than top four in any tangible sense. If we’d kept the title challenge going to the end of the season it could be said, but no we have met our minimum objective only.
I completely disagree with this. Last year we should have finished Top 4 and it is a black mark on Arteta that we didn't. But Spurs and us both spent the run in tripping over our laces trying to finish Top 4, had we finished Top 4 we'd have barely limped over the line. This year we've clearly been in the title race till very near the end. Yes, we should have pushed them to the last day, I am deeply disappointed that we didn't. But even that disappointment shows the progress we've made. Before the season you said we'd finish 5th or 6th. I thought we should finish Top 4 (I didn't actually post in that pre-season thread, but I definitely thought we had a chance and it was my expectation given the previous season). Now we're both sitting here moaning that we didn't push City till the last day or even win the league. Doesn't that in and of itself tell you that Arteta has raised the bar for us and shows we've made progress?

There's definitely room for further improvement, but the level of criticism he's been getting from some keyboard warriors is way out of proportion to the actual situation.

[HCZ_Reborn]

No it’s only lies, Damn lies and statistics if I’d stated that we should have won every single game in that run. I absolutely appreciate that we had three of the toughest away fixtures in those past eight games but ultimately it’s not the results in those fixtures I take exception to…I’m disappointed to get thrashed by city but so many teams have had their arse handed to them there I would accept that it was unreasonable to expect a result. Anfield as you say was creditable even though there is an argument that we should have held onto the two nil lead…but as you will find from looking back…I was quite philosophical about that individual result often to the frustration of others.
Newcastle arguably we did better than I expected us to do.

But West Ham, Southampton, Brighton and Forest…two points from 12….that’s not on. That is what I’m pointing to. These are games we should have won. It’s not to say we will always win those games, but we should expect to and to win not a single one of them….I’d have been cross about that last season let alone in the context of a misfiring title challenge.

The difference between 2nd and 4th is ultimately lost on me. Unless you consider that finishing 2nd to Leicester in 2016 represents anymore of a successful season than finishing 4th behind United, Chelsea and City three years earlier (and I’m fairly sure you don’t). We were in a title chase in 2016.

[Letters]

The difference between 2nd and 4th is ultimately lost on me. Unless you consider that finishing 2nd to Leicester in 2016 represents anymore of a successful season than finishing 4th behind United, Chelsea and City three years earlier (and I’m fairly sure you don’t). We were in a title chase in 2016.
Is were a typo? It's interesting you bring up the Leicester season because although we did end up 2nd (lol @ Spurs finishing 3rd in a 2 horse race, and so on), we were never serious title contenders that year. Spurs collapsed which let us in to 2nd, but it didn't feel like a particularly successful season. And last year had we snuck into 4th that would have been good, it was probably our pre-season aim. But it would have been very much a stepping stone towards proper success. This year has felt different. We're not sneaking in to 2nd like we did in that Leicester year, we've been leading the race for most of the season. OK, City chased us down in the and as we all feared they would, and I think we share the disappointment of our collapse making it so easy for them in the end. But there have been a lot of "statement" wins this year, a lot of "must win" games which we did win. For the first time in years I'm feeling confident about the team again. So Arteta definitely deserves credit for that. But I do fear it will be harder next year and I am not sure Arteta can push us further. But given that this is now very much "his" squad it would be very disruptive to change managers now - I know you're not suggesting that. I don't know what is a realistic expectation next year. City aren't going away. Newcastle will surely splash out. Liverpool and Utd are rebuilding. Can Chelsea really continue to be quite so hilariously inept? Not too worried about Spurs, but the right manager might improve them. I always felt this year was a bit "now or never". But we're a young squad and with the right signings this summer there could be improvement.

[HCZ_Reborn]

We were title challenging in 2016, the main difference is that the title collapse happened back then in February rather than April (but then you could argue that with the three game wobble it started for us in February too)

And ultimately we are likely to be the same amount of points behind City as we finished behind Leicester (8 presently, could be 10 or 11 if we drop more points which is what we finished behind Leicester)

All you’ve been able to add as evidence is that it feels different.

[LDG]

:haha:

Badly written. Awfully wide of the mark

[HCZ_Reborn]

:haha:

Badly written. Awfully wide of the mark

Harsh on Letters

[Niall_Quinn]

We were title challenging in 2016, the main difference is that the title collapse happened back then in February rather than April (but then you could argue that with the three game wobble it started for us in February too)

And ultimately we are likely to be the same amount of points behind City as we finished behind Leicester (8 presently, could be 10 or 11 if we drop more points which is what we finished behind Leicester)

All you’ve been able to add as evidence is that it feels different.

Not such a bad thing to have some variation in the timing of the collapse. If the collapse happened at the same time every season it would all become so predictable. As it is we have great excitement in wondering when the tiresomely inevitable will occur.

[Letters]

£80 for the new home shirt, £110 if you want the “authentic” version which has some detail to do with The Invincibles :haha:

[HCZ_Reborn]

£80 for the new home shirt, £110 if you want the “authentic” version which has some detail to do with The Invincibles :haha:

Grown men shouldn’t buy replica kits

[Marc Overmars]

Might get the boy the toddler kit now he’s starting to enjoy kicking a ball around but that’s still £50. :doh:

[Letters]

Grown men shouldn’t buy replica kits

I’m not sure I’d go that far, but I do wonder about people who rush out to buy the new kit every year

[Letters]

Zinchenko and Odegaard in the Opta team of the season

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65740006

[HCZ_Reborn]

Zinchenko and Odegaard in the Opta team of the season

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65740006

Some very rum choices. Rice? Trippier? Akanji? And that’s even before you get to the utter joke of having Zinchenko in there

[Mac76]

Some very rum choices. Rice? Trippier? Akanji? And that’s even before you get to the utter joke of having Zinchenko in there

just proves stats can be very deceptive - the Zin fanboys love the stats how many touches he has without stopping to think whether all those touches are actually of any benefit

[Letters]

just proves stats can be very deceptive
Especially when they don't say what you want, amirite?

;)

[Mac76]

Especially when they don't say what you want, amirite?

;)

Ha, but seriously do you think that Opta 11 is the best 11 players you've seen this season?

Or do we all have to fall in line with what the computer says?

[Letters]

I don't think that, but it does maybe indicate that he's not quite as useless as some on here make out.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/12040/12899940/william-saliba-agrees-new-arsenal-contract-in-principle-defender-to-pen-new-four-year-deal-at-emirates

At the risk of being positive, this was absolutely vital and very good news that we’ve got this agreed

[Mac76]

https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/12040/12899940/william-saliba-agrees-new-arsenal-contract-in-principle-defender-to-pen-new-four-year-deal-at-emirates

At the risk of being positive, this was absolutely vital and very good news that we’ve got this agreed

Totally, great news

[Mac76]

John Hollins RIP :rose:

[Letters]

Ian Wright Wright Wright :bow:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65914516

[Niall_Quinn]

Ian Wright Wright Wright :bow:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65914516

Didn't he suck Lineker's cock? Don't care what he did for Arsenal, he's done now he's had that flaccid dead thing in his mouth.

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/12040/12899940/william-saliba-agrees-new-arsenal-contract-in-principle-defender-to-pen-new-four-year-deal-at-emirates

At the risk of being positive, this was absolutely vital and very good news that we’ve got this agreed

Wish I'd ever seen him play. Probably have but didn't realise. Everyone says he's decent though.

[Letters]

https://metro.co.uk/2023/07/01/cesc-fabregas-announces-retirement-from-football-19050000/

:wave:

[dazthegooner]

To be honest thought he already had :shrug:

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger statue in the pipeline.

https://theathletic.com/4667322/2023/07/05/arsenal-arsene-wenger-statue/

[Mac76]

nice - fully deserved

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://twitter.com/gunnersc0m/status/1676885161504395264?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw


Gabriel Jesus bitching about Guardiola

[Niall_Quinn]

https://twitter.com/gunnersc0m/status/1676885161504395264?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw


Gabriel Jesus bitching about Guardiola

Unprofessional and weak. As I said, Arsenal needs a striker to really challenge for the title.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Unprofessional and weak. As I said, Arsenal needs a striker to really challenge for the title.

Wouldn’t disagree. Feels like we are going with the Liverpool approach of interchangeable short arses in front three, only problem is Salah is not bad aerially but Jesus is terrible at it

[KSE Comedy Club]

We would be Mbappe's first choice if he came to the prem.

Maybe we should get him?

[HCZ_Reborn]

We would be Mbappe's first choice if he came to the prem.

Maybe we should get him?


Won’t happen, don’t get me wrong…he’s one of those players that I actually don’t think you can overspend on. But we simply couldn’t afford the fee and wages I suspect (I doubt in reality any club could). Whether you agree with who we are buying or not, it’s impossible to argue we aren’t competitive with the big clubs but if Mbappe was a credible transfer for any club it would have happened by now.

Who knows, maybe situation will change in a year. He would be THE signing….he simply is that good.

Also I do appreciate you’re being facetious rather than naive :)

[GP]

He'd be decent backup for Martinelli

[KSE Comedy Club]

Won’t happen, don’t get me wrong…he’s one of those players that I actually don’t think you can overspend on. But we simply couldn’t afford the fee and wages I suspect (I doubt in reality any club could). Whether you agree with who we are buying or not, it’s impossible to argue we aren’t competitive with the big clubs but if Mbappe was a credible transfer for any club it would have happened by now.

Who knows, maybe situation will change in a year. He would be THE signing….he simply is that good.

Also I do appreciate you’re being facetious rather than naive :)


:good: ##

[HCZ_Reborn]

1-1 full time in Germany. Bit concerning to be honest


Controlled the first half, and even the start of the second half, but for all the chances we created couldn’t finish them

And then that third choice keeper from Estonia kicks the ball straight out to one of their players to kick into an empty net


After that Nurnberg had most of the better chances but that’s because we took off almost all our first team squad players, Ethan Nwaneri probably the only bright spark after the equaliser


Balogun, Trossard and Nketiah all missed sitters.


Hope it’s just a bit of rustiness and not a sign of things to come

[HCZ_Reborn]

So the away kit being released today, ugh what a monstrosity from the great black kit of last season to the lurid green/yellow monstrosity with curved black lines running through it.

Oh well I suppose it’s the prerogative of all clubs to produce ugly kits now and again (well in fairness it’s not the club it’s the kit manufacturer) . Home strip pretty decent at least

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah not a fan of it. Shame because our away kits are usually class.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Never liked the yellow kits

But the blue/navy/gold/black ones yeah

[Mac76]

Never liked the yellow kits



another sure sign you aren't really an Arsenal fan

the yellow away kit is sacred

[GP]

I quite like the 3rd kit actually, but yes the away is terrible.

I suppose we'll grow to like it when we lift multiple trophies in it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

another sure sign you aren't really an Arsenal fan

the yellow away kit is sacred

Morning One Trick Pony

[Mac76]

I quite like the 3rd kit actually, but yes the away is terrible.

I suppose we'll grow to like it when we lift multiple trophies in it.

no-one liked the 'bruised banana' when it came out but now it's a retro classic - i suspect the same will happen with this - in fact that may even have been a factor in the club choosing it...

[Letters]

I think we should take a moment to pause and consider how mad it is that clubs change their kit every year for no other reason than to fleece their fans, and a huge number of people just go along with it. Every year.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think we should take a moment to pause and consider how mad it is that clubs change their kit every year for no other reason than to fleece their fans, and a huge number of people just go along with it. Every year.

It’s almost like that’s how marketing and commercialism works the world over

[Letters]

It’s almost like that’s how marketing and commercialism works the world over

Well, obviously.
But the relationship should be fan and club, not customer and business.
I know this is "old man yells at cloud", it's just how it is now, but I don't have to like it.

[Marc Overmars]

I don’t have an issue with it as people have the choice to buy them or not. However the price of them now is mental, £80 for adults and £50 for kids! Dreading the day my boy starts asking for a new kit every year.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well, obviously.
But the relationship should be fan and club, not customer and business.
I know this is "old man yells at cloud", it's just how it is now, but I don't have to like it.

We don’t live in the world of what should, the only thing you can hope for is that people prepared to buy a new kit every year are people with more money than sense.

[Mac76]

I don’t have an issue with it as people have the choice to buy them or not. However the price of them now is mental, £80 for adults and £50 for kids! Dreading the day my boy starts asking for a new kit every year.

I think that's partly because people want the exact shirts the players wear, made from all the same materials etc, so that's gonna cost more

it's why something like the old 70s retro shirt is better value

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ultimately a kit home or away is made memorable by what has been achieved whilst wearing it

The Bruised Banana kit which is objectively horrendous is synonymous with the league cup/fa cup double in 1993

Gold away kit synonymous with Old Trafford win

Yellow and Black with Anfield 1989

[Niall_Quinn]

Away kit truly horrific. Whoever designed that must hate the club. On the other hand, I thought they'd all be wearing dresses by now, so at least it could still be considered unisex.

As for the price, that's where the 200mill transfer budget comes from, along with the ever exorbitant ticket prices. The complaint was never the cost, it was all about what you got in return. Which was nothing much.

There's a strong chance I won't be buying.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Away kit truly horrific. Whoever designed that must hate the club. On the other hand, I thought they'd all be wearing dresses by now, so at least it could still be considered unisex.

As for the price, that's where the 200mill transfer budget comes from, along with the ever exorbitant ticket prices. The complaint was never the cost, it was all about what you got in return. Which was nothing much.

There's a strong chance I won't be buying.


The club revenue won’t touch the sides in terms of our spending, this is the largesse of Tom Selleck and son combined with the amortisation of purchases

[Mac76]

Apparently the shirt design's supposed to be based on a map of Islington*

*after two tabs of acid

[HCZ_Reborn]

Certainly the kind of thing a person would have worn to an Acid rave

[Niall_Quinn]

The club revenue won’t touch the sides in terms of our spending, this is the largesse of Tom Selleck and son combined with the amortisation of purchases

Still not buying it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Still not buying it.

:lol: fair

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/23008565/arsenal-arsene-wenger-mystery-brunette-beach-mykonos/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=sunfootballfacebook180723&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1689602769

Heartwarming. AW is living the dream of every gangly, rich septuagenarian


Good Lad

[HCZ_Reborn]

Interview with Saliba suggests Arteta ignored him for a week after his first day back in Training which Saliba regarded as a way of assessing his character.

No that’s odd behaviour. I’m glad Arteta clearly understood how good he was in order to fix that and play him regularly.


I still don’t buy into this idea that Arteta lacks the confidence to deal with people of character, but I think he’s on the spectrum which accounts for this bizarre behaviour.

I also don’t buy into this teachers pet theory with Xhaka, because I don’t think sucking up to Arteta would have any bearing on what he thought of you or how much he played you. Just an awkward, strange individual

[mandela8]

Highlights from the MLS friendly.

Couple of great goals. Jesus with a fuckin belter, man.

https://youtu.be/DbOnAu7QXA0

[Mac76]

Highlights from the MLS friendly.

Couple of great goals. Jesus with a fuckin belter, man.

https://youtu.be/DbOnAu7QXA0

Trossard and Havertz also very good goals

hard to tell from highights but defensively there seemed to be one or two shaky moments

[mandela8]

Trossard and Havertz also very good goals

hard to tell from highights but defensively there seemed to be one or two shaky moments

Aye, Gabriel had a Gabriel moment. Got lucky with a foul when there was zero contact. He's got those gaffes in him, unfortunately.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Moussa Diaby looks like he’s going to Villa. Good signing for them. Can see them finishing top six

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Man Utd v Arsenal tonight at 10pm BST.

I know it's pre-season but :sick:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Man Utd: Heaton, Wan-Bissaka, Martinez, Varane, Shaw, Mainoo, Mount, Fernandes, Sancho, Garnacho, Antony
Subs: Bishop, Vitek, Dalot, Fernandez, Lindelof, Maguire, Williams, Amad, Casemiro, Eriksen, Gore, Hannibal, McTominay, Pellistri, Van de Beek, Forson, Rashford.

Arsenal: Ramsdale, Timber, Saliba, Gabriel, Tomiyasu, Rice, Havertz, Odegaard, Saka, Martinelli, Nketiah.
Subs: Hein, Runarsson, Tierney, Holding, White, Kiwior, Trusty, Partey, Jorginho, Smith Rowe, Trossard, Vieira, Marquinhos, Cozier-Duberry, Jesus, Balogun.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Seeing something that closely resembles our likely starting XI this season

[McNamara That Ghost...]

For some reason there is a pelanty shootout regardless of the result apparently.

:wacko:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Scuffer from Antony!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

How has Heaton kept Martinelli out twice?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-0 Fernandes, Ramsdale chucks it in a bit.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

2-0 Sancho, That was a bit of a shocker from Gabriel.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

2-0 HT.

[Marc Overmars]

Arteta out!

[HCZ_Reborn]

Pretty disappointing. Feels like United knew how to beat our press and managed to isolate Rice because Havertz is not really doing anything by way of protecting the back four.

Feels like if we want go with the Havertz/Rice pairing it’s going to take a bit to bed in.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Ramsdale clearly thinks he's still on holiday.

Interesting look at the team and hopefully we see wholesale changes this half.

Impressed with Timber again and the less I say about Havertz, the better.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Eddie. :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Feed has gone. :rose:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Been quite shit really.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Man Utd 2-0 Arsenal, FT. We were so lethargic from 20 minutes onwards.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Takeaways:

Tierney still the only natural LB we have...needs to stay.

Ramsdale needs some real competition.

If Rice takes the DM role, he'll be Gilbertoish i.e. great defensively & positionally and simple short passes. I think he'll definitely need to be paired with someone who is more comfortable carrying the ball and dictating play. That person is not Kai ATM.

In all I enjoyed the intensity quite a bit, but I really would have preferred Arteta making wholesale subs like Man U did in the 2nd half, would have allowed us to see more of the other players and made the result less embarrassing i.e. it looks like we played their first and second team with our best lineup and still couldn't get a goal.

[Mac76]

So basically Arteta's learnt nothing and we've squandered £100m on a limited player - next season should be fun...

[HCZ_Reborn]

United very direct using the long ball and raw pace of some of their youngsters to just get pass our press. Gabriel’s error as much a part of our system which encourages the centre backs to push up in order to win possession and was never going to win a race with Jadon Sancho.

Rice played ok, was tidy and broke up a lot of their attacking moves. Havertz for the life of me I don’t really see how he fits into that LCM role…

I think we need to mix it up not just player wise but tactically, as I think a lot of teams will play like United to disrupt us….Brighton did last season.

[Marc Overmars]

Based off this I think it’s important that Partey stays now. Unless we get someone like Tchouameni.

It’s early days of course but I’m not very optimistic that Havertz will excel in this midfield role. I’m not sure he’s robust enough or has enough guile in him.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Based off this I think it’s important that Partey stays now. Unless we get someone like Tchouameni.

It’s early days of course but I’m not very optimistic that Havertz will excel in this midfield role. I’m not sure he’s robust enough or has enough guile in him.

IMO it'll take quite a while to unlock the "potential" Kai has. He clearly is a gifted player, but it seems he excels in nothing obvious (at least when facing EPL opposition) and is still searching to find who he is. Its a bit of a similar situation with Viera, though with one season gone, his true worth should be getting more discernable.

Like I have been saying these past few weeks (which seemed difficult for some people to get), we can't afford to throw away what we know works for what could. Citeh, though a bit weakened IMO, still have the core of their team and will be ruthless. Man U are improving and perfecting thier shitty style of play with their core intact (De Gea will be a big miss though). We need to improve on what we have by making subtle changes and adding new dimensions. I can see that with Timber and to an extent with Rice.... but we really shouldn't end up replacing Xhaka with another player we'd struggle to understand what their contribution is.

Its early days though, but my strong preference would be Arteta starts pairing Rice and Partey (or Jorginho) to get them use to each other or we go out and get a proper replacement who is able to make an immediate impression. A direct player like Kudus would be fine if you ask me.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/12925849/mikel-arteta-encouraged-by-declan-rice-martin-odegaard-and-kai-havertz-midfield-showing-in-arsenals-defeat-to-man-utd

Just read this and it seems Mikel intends to stick with the trio as our starting midfield.....ok then, it seems we'll have a lot of draws to look forward to.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

.

[Mac76]

.

:gp:

[Mac76]

Havertz strikea me as a player who will go missing, Odegaard does too sometimes, for all that i didn't like Xhaka he was always looking to get involved, even if it was quite often in the wrong way

Zinchenko's a waste of space so i think the idea of both Rice and Jorg/Partey could work at times

I'm thinking we ahould probably keep Partey after all, just as an extra option, if we manage his minutea maybe we can keep him fitter

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think all the statistics people point to as to what Zinchenko does for the team are more about his passing in midfield, even his staunchest defenders concede that he’s absolutely terrible as a defender. My preference would be to keep him to play in the No 8 role (not first choice), have Tierney as first choice left back and Tomoyasu as the backup option.

As for Havertz and Rice, well one can argue that Havertz is adapting to that role, but why on Earth pay 65 million for someone in the hope that they can do so when arguably you could get someone already familiar with it for much cheaper, I’d love to be proved wrong but it feels Galaxy brained, Arteta ignoring the basics in his drive to be smarter than his counterparts. Can’t really say much about Rice, as I thought he played ok…I thought despite a lack of defensive support from almost anyone he made a lot of decent interceptions and looked tidy in possession.

I do think a striker stands out as a necessity, we have a lot of decent attacking players but what we don’t have is a clinical finisher.

I also think the system we play makes us vulnerable to pace and the long ball, and we clearly need to adapt


Again this might be precipitous based on one game


But not only would I sell Vieira I’d sell Smith Rowe and have Havertz be the backup to Odegaard (if he goes missing it’s less likely to be costly in our half)

Have Rice and Partey as our first choice central midfield, Zinchenko and Jorginho as our back up options

Then buy a striker, have Jesus play more on the right and bring in a lump…someone like Mitrovic or the other Serbian lad at Juventus

[Mac76]

Yeah Mitro seems keen to leave Fulham and he could work well for us, trouble is I don't get the sense we're even looking for that type of striker which is worrying

Arteta's been talking about our mixing it up more and being flexible in team and tactics but at the front, our buying strategy so far doesn't show it

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think when he says mix it up, he means that a lot of the players have the ability to play in multiple positions within this one unchangeable system he prefers. Therefore I suspect someone who is a route one striker probably doesn’t appeal to him.

On the whole though with the exception of lacking that, I actually like the make up of our squad albeit needs serious pruning. And therefore unlike when things went south for Emery, I think if Arteta fucks it up…I don’t think his replacement has a massive rebuild to do….which is a definite positive.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

When it comes to buying an out and out striker, I am struggling to be convinced on this unless we go for the best.

Jesus, Eddie, Balogun and maybe Kai will get you goals....not the numbers of Haaland and Kane, but I honestly think when you play for a top side with the way top teams play nowadays, it is very difficult to reach those numbers unless you are truly exceptional.

Definitely none of our current strikers would rank as my favourite Arsenal players, despite that I get what they offer and still think we could win trophies with them.

Anyway, Arteta has shown no inkling for going for a Mitrovic kind of player so probably no need to debate this..... but yeah I get we really need to mix it up somehow and add the other dimension to our game this season or everyone will just set themselves up the same way to play us.

[HCZ_Reborn]

When it comes to buying an out and out striker, I am struggling to be convinced on this unless we go for the best.

Jesus, Eddie, Balogun and maybe Kai will get you goals....not the numbers of Haaland and Kane, but I honestly think when you play for a top side with the way top teams play nowadays, it is very difficult to reach those numbers unless you are truly exceptional.

Definitely none of our current strikers would rank as my favourite Arsenal players, despite that I get what they offer and still think we could win trophies with them.

Anyway, Arteta has shown no inkling for going for a Mitrovic kind of player so probably no need to debate this..... but yeah I get we really need to mix it up somehow and add the other dimension to our game this season or everyone will just set themselves up the same way to play us.


Really yeah I’m kind of looking for someone in the Giroud mould, not necessarily someone who like Henry is just going to get 30 goals a season…strikers of that quality seem to be subject to the same forces of inflation that bedevil the global economy that demand far exceeds supply. But Someone slightly better at scoring ugly scrappy goals from set pieces (but yeah we seem to agree that, this is not an Arteta type of signing)

We all know we’d love an Mbappe, but we also know that whilst it’s not purely fanciful it’s also highly unlikely

[Mac76]

Eddie is not up to it and should be sold for whatever we can get, for as long as we have him there's a danger Arteta will use him - he's lower PL/Championship material

We should give Balogun a real go, he has much more potential though he doesn't deal with the issue of a lack of a tall striker

Jesus is a tricky one, I think he more than anyone triggered our great start to last season but he's just too profligate in front of goal, I think his future is maybe on the wing

[Letters]

So basically Arteta's learnt nothing and we've squandered £100m on a limited player - next season should be fun...
I also think we should make rash proclamations based on one off preseason games.

[Mac76]

I also think we should make rash proclamations based on one off preseason games.

I agree :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Lot of United fans applauding the thuggishness that went unpunished by their players yesterday

The irony is if Bruno Fernandes gets a light tap, he’d probably report it to the police if he could.

[Letters]

Was NQ there last night? :unsure:


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Dw6-mnmWCCM

[HCZ_Reborn]

Was NQ there last night? :unsure:


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Dw6-mnmWCCM

:crying: makes you proud to be British to see one of our finest traditions exported to the colonies


NQ would have to leave the house first, more likely mandela…he does live in the US

[Mac76]

Probably arguing over whether it should be Zin or Tierney at LB

[Letters]

https://mothership.sg/2023/07/arsenal-fan-booed-by-spurs-fans

:lol:

[Mac76]

https://mothership.sg/2023/07/arsenal-fan-booed-by-spurs-fans

:lol:

Lion City Sailors :haha:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Lion City Sailors :haha:

Ironically they are based about as inland as you can be in Singapore

[HCZ_Reborn]

Final whistle just gone in Los Angeles where we have beaten Barcelona 5-3

They took the lead through Lewandowski, Saka equalised…they took the lead again through Raphinia and then Havertz equalised. Then we took the lead second half through Trossard who scored again to make it 4-2, Ferran Torres scored near the end to make things a bit edgy but Vieira sealed it a minute later.

[Letters]

They might as well just give us the CL now tbh

[GP]

https://i.imgur.com/xrBoNJG.jpg

:bow:

[Letters]

:bow: is right.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://i.imgur.com/xrBoNJG.jpg

:bow:


Be interesting to see if anyone is triggered by this, given how much animosity there was towards Wenger before he left us. I’m not going to lie, I was sick to the back teeth of him by 2018…burnt out in terms of ideas and innovation. But as soon as he announced he was going (not that I think he was given much choice) all that frustration and annoyance went.

Out of the three titles he won, my favourite strangely enough is not the unbeaten season but the second double winning season where we won the title at Old Trafford, scored in every game and won 14 games away from home (including our first win at Anfield in 9 years….now it’s been 11)

It was a last hurrah for a lot of the old guard like Seaman, Dixon, Adams. Plus you had two of my favourite Arsenal goals of all time, the Bergkamp control, spin and shoot against Newcastle and Pires’ ridiculously nonchalant lob against Aston Villa

That was peak Wenger for me. He transformed how the rest of the country saw Arsenal football club. We played with a confidence and a swagger, but we also had an imposing physicality…the players from Campbell to Vieira were all giants who were as physically imposing as they were technically accomplished.

[Mac76]

There won't be any problem IMO, people just wanted him to move on but that was in part so they could celebrate his glory years without being annoyed with him regarding how it had got worse.

You only have to look what it was like at the 'Merci Arsene' match

[Letters]

I think he just about got away with it. Wish he'd left after that last FA Cup though. I mean, ideally before that, but that would have been a positive ending at least.

[HCZ_Reborn]

There won't be any problem IMO, people just wanted him to move on but that was in part so they could celebrate his glory years without being annoyed with him regarding how it had got worse.

You only have to look what it was like at the 'Merci Arsene' match


Yeah I think you’re probably right but you know what some people can be like

Wenger himself stayed away for years because he felt he wouldn’t get a good welcome, which I don’t know if he genuinely believed that or whether he was still a bit salty about how it ended and needed a bit of time to pass. The impression I got in a way was that he committed so much to the job that he’d barely taken the time to enjoy life outside of Arsenal and whilst his ego for a year or so wouldn’t allow him to reconcile himself to not getting another managerial job that he would consider adequate for his skill set/reputation…I get the impression he’s genuinely enjoying his retirement now (and why shouldn’t he)

[Marc Overmars]

The way things ended was regretful but now the dust has settled there’s no doubt this man is an absolute hero.

[LDG]

AW beach photos now

[Letters]

Younglings probably don't remember or know that when he walked into the club it was in the era of "drinking schools", fried food and foreign players being an exotic luxury.
The effect he had on the Club and the English game in general was revolutionary.
And he took us from "boring boring Arsenal" to playing some of the best club football I've ever seen.
The Invincibles was brilliant but quite honestly it's a bit of a statistical quirk which involved a fairly large slice of luck - not least the last minute pel at OT.
But when I was a kid the Double was spoken about in hushed tones. To deliver it twice, and with all the other silverware and accolades.
He's one of the most important people in our modern history.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Younglings probably don't remember or know that when he walked into the club it was in the era of "drinking schools", fried food and foreign players being an exotic luxury.
The effect he had on the Club and the English game in general was revolutionary.
And he took us from "boring boring Arsenal" to playing some of the best club football I've ever seen.
The Invincibles was brilliant but quite honestly it's a bit of a statistical quirk which involved a fairly large slice of luck - not least the last minute pel at OT.
But when I was a kid the Double was spoken about in hushed tones. To deliver it twice, and with all the other silverware and accolades.
He's one of the most important people in our modern history.


I was 14 when we did the first Wenger double, 18 when we did the second. I was still in sixth form and came in the day after the Old Trafford game

“Are you hungover?” One of the teachers asked me

“Absolutely not sir…I’m still drunk”

How I wasn’t booted to the kerb I don’t know. Though probably would have got better A-Level grades if I’d paid more attention to exams than Arsenal and the subsequent World Cup…but who on earth could resist early pub opening times (because the games were all on early and mid morning) and fry ups and pints

[Letters]

who on earth could resist early pub opening times (because the games were all on early and mid morning) and fry ups and pints

Loved that World Cup. I was working in a small company and we had quite a wide range of nationalities amongst the staff. We set up one of the meeting rooms with a projector. I’d go in early, watch the morning game, go do some work then go back for the lunchtime game. And usually there was someone in the room who had a vested interest in the game :d

[HCZ_Reborn]

Loved that World Cup. I was working in a small company and we had quite a wide range of nationalities amongst the staff. We set up one of the meeting rooms with a projector. I’d go in early, watch the morning game, go do some work then go back for the lunchtime game. And usually there was someone in the room who had a vested interest in the game :d

I’ll be honest it was great at first but then it petered out and got dull because so many big teams had been knocked out in the group stages - Portugal, Argentina, France.

Still think the best tournaments that I remember were France 98 and the Brazil World Cup (I loved the ridiculously late games)

[Mac76]

BTW they seem to have retreated on charging £8 to watch a friendly on video, the match v Monaco tomorrow is £4.99 'early bird' at the moment if you want to watch legally

[IBK]

I’ll be honest it was great at first but then it petered out and got dull because so many big teams had been knocked out in the group stages - Portugal, Argentina, France.

Still think the best tournaments that I remember were France 98 and the Brazil World Cup (I loved the ridiculously late games)

France '98 was amazing. I managed to score tickets for arguably the match of the tournament - Nigeria 3 Spain 2 in Nantes. Left the UK the evening before, got the overnight ferry and drove home after the match. French people were still cheering our Nigerian Flag in Cherbourg. Great times :d:d

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ramsdale’s missus suffered a miscarriage between England going out of the World Cup and the season beginning again post World Cup. That’s absolutely terrible for both of them.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Have to say he comes across as genuine and likeable chap, honest, self-aware and humble…and a decent sense of self-effacing humour.

[Marc Overmars]

He’s not a mindless robot like most players are, when you listen to him speak he’s not just talking a load of waffle, he speaks like a fan would. Rice is also the same, just a very relatable and candid guy who I actually look forward to hearing from.

Both are throwbacks.

[Mac76]

i love Ramsdale's baiting of the opposition fans, total quality, as long as they don't attack again him of course...

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12913493/future-of-football-will-we-see-the-premier-leagues-first-gay-footballer-in-the-next-10-to-20-years

I genuinely don’t get the obsession with this. It’s not about saying players should stay in the closet. But equally can you blame them for doing so?…given the obsession the media has with their private lives.

For what it’s worth, we clearly have had and still do have gay players in the premier league. I’m utterly convinced Kieran Tierney is in a relationship with the bloke who does the catering on the training ground who he lives with.

Odegaard seems very effeminate as well. But just heedless speculation.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12913493/future-of-football-will-we-see-the-premier-leagues-first-gay-footballer-in-the-next-10-to-20-years

I genuinely don’t get the obsession with this. It’s not about saying players should stay in the closet. But equally can you blame them for doing so?…given the obsession the media has with their private lives.

For what it’s worth, we clearly have had and still do have gay players in the premier league.

Probably the best few sentences you've written since you came back.



I’m utterly convinced Kieran Tierney is in a relationship with the bloke who does the catering on the training ground who he lives with.

Odegaard seems very effeminate as well. But just heedless speculation.

Then you go ahead and spoil it by doing exactly what you are complaining the media does by making it a thing :doh:


Anyway team "no one cares" probably needs to be more vocal, because this seems to be a pretty onesided conversation now and its honestly getting tiring.

[HCZ_Reborn]

As I said it’s just heedless speculation to say, it’s possible we have gay players in the team. Not particularly all that interested in finding out who they are. Just idle curiosity rather than thinking it especially important. But you’re right in that I didn’t actually need to do so.

There has clearly been a sea change in football, In that twenty years ago, chants that would now be considered homophobic were prominent at football grounds. Graeme Le Saux, Ashley Cole etc all got a bit of stick as did Sol Campbell.

For me there was a clear distinction between chants aimed at Brighton supporters “we can see you holding hands” and stuff like “Sol, Sol wherever you may be. We hope you die from HIV”

I’m not going to pretend I didn’t join in with chants like “Ten men went to bed with Ashley” or “Le Saux takes it up the arse”. Nor am I going to insult anyone’s intelligence by saying I’m deeply ashamed of my behaviour back then. I’m not, for me it was all fair game…I wouldn’t do such chants now because I don’t want to be banned from a ground or end up with a police record.

It is hard to know whether there’s been an attitude change amongst fans or whether it’s just that the authorities have come down hard.

[Mac76]

I’m utterly convinced Kieran Tierney is in a relationship with the bloke who does the catering on the training ground who he lives with.

Odegaard seems very effeminate as well. But just heedless speculation.

but you thought you'd say it anyway :lol:

TBH i've always thought that a bunch of guys having a bath together was always really gay but there you go

[Marc Overmars]

Hopefully there’s a player who just comes out and puts an end to all this awareness crap. At the end of the day fans will only care whether they’re good at football or not.

We’re an incredibly tolerant society.

[HCZ_Reborn]

but you thought you'd say it anyway :lol:

Exactly

[HCZ_Reborn]

Hopefully there’s a player who just comes out and puts an end to all this awareness crap. At the end of the day fans will only care whether they’re good at football or not.

Opposition fans will definitely have a pop, that’s why no one wants to be the first one to come out

Like Hitzlsperger they’ll just wait until they’ve retired

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

As I said it’s just heedless speculation to say, it’s possible we have gay players in the team. Not particularly all that interested in finding out who they are. Just idle curiosity rather than thinking it especially important. But you’re right in that I didn’t actually need to do so.

There has clearly been a sea change in football, In that twenty years ago, chants that would now be considered homophobic were prominent at football grounds. Graeme Le Saux, Ashley Cole etc all got a bit of stick as did Sol Campbell.

For me there was a clear distinction between chants aimed at Brighton supporters “we can see you holding hands” and stuff like “Sol, Sol wherever you may be. We hope you die from HIV”

I’m not going to pretend I didn’t join in with chants like “Ten men went to bed with Ashley” or “Le Saux takes it up the arse”. Nor am I going to insult anyone’s intelligence by saying I’m deeply ashamed of my behaviour back then. I’m not, for me it was all fair game…I wouldn’t do such chants now because I don’t want to be banned from a ground or end up with a police record.

It is hard to know whether there’s been an attitude change amongst fans or whether it’s just that the authorities have come down hard.


TBH even I can't answer your last sentence and I do ponder how genuine the results of this crusade for all things LGBTQXRYZZZ+ really is.

One thing I am increasingly sure of is that this media addiction has actually made some people who were never on board with this kind of stuff more defensive and more forthright in their views than they were in the 90s. I remember watching the Crying Game as a kid and being shocked by the reveal....but then it wasn't that big a deal or something worth mentioning in school the next day. You just moved on.

Like I hinted earlier, I'm really begining to believe there is going to be a very intense and unfortunate backlash if the media and authorities don't take a chill pill and let things just evolve naturally. We didn't have this kind of acrimony when gay marriage was allowed, it just felt organic and you could hardly hear a whimper against it.

BTW, my response is probably targeted more at Transgender related news, which Sky also wrote about today....but yeah, we are meant to see all things as the same ..at least that's what the media keeps drumming in our ears.

[Marc Overmars]

Opposition fans will definitely have a pop, that’s why no one wants to be the first one to come out

Like Hitzlsperger they’ll just wait until they’ve retired

You get sad and weak individuals online who say all sorts of crap about anything. I even saw some poking fun at the Ramsdale story yesterday. You just know they’d fold like a pack of cards if ever tasked with saying these things face to face.

I think match going fans would be far more accepting tbh. Opposition included.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You get sad and weak individuals online who say all sorts of crap about anything. I even saw some poking fun at the Ramsdale story yesterday. You just know they’d fold like a pack of cards if ever tasked with saying these things face to face.

I think match going fans would be far more accepting tbh. Opposition included.


I think people often mistake homophobic chants for actual genuinely homophobic sentiment. Even 15 years ago when you could hear such chants in the stand. I don’t think I felt any animosity towards people who were gay, it was just an insult that teenage boys threw at each other. Genuine homophobia comes from let’s be fair the south Asian and West Indian/African communities because their religious beliefs tell them that it’s sinful.

But opposition fans will consider it like sledging.

[HCZ_Reborn]

TBH even I can't answer your last sentence and I do ponder how genuine the results of this crusade for all things LGBTQXRYZZZ+ really is.

One thing I am increasingly sure of is that this media addiction has actually made some people who were never on board with this kind of stuff more defensive and more forthright in their views than they were in the 90s. I remember watching the Crying Game as a kid and being shocked by the reveal....but then it wasn't that big a deal or something worth mentioning in school the next day. You just moved on.

Like I hinted earlier, I'm really begining to believe there is going to be a very intense and unfortunate backlash if the media and authorities don't take a chill pill and let things just evolve naturally. We didn't have this kind of acrimony when gay marriage was allowed, it just felt organic and you could hardly hear a whimper against it.

BTW, my response is probably targeted more at Transgender related news, which Sky also wrote about today....but yeah, we are meant to see all things as the same ..at least that's what the media keeps drumming in our ears.

I think a pushback is on the way, but in fairness it’s more because of the attempt to marry up Trans people with being Gay

Pronouns, Non Binary, Trans women are women, Self ID (which is just an invitation for every pervert to put on a frock and enter female only spaces) is what people are getting tired of. No one cared that Sam Smith is gay but the whole non binary thing just gets on peoples nerves because it doesn’t mean anything and it’s just so Me Me Me Me Me.


I feel sorry for a lot of middle aged gay men and women, they led the charge to end prejudice and now they have all these freaks, exhibitionists and degenerates associated with their cause.

[Mac76]

TBH even I can't answer your last sentence and I do ponder how genuine the results of this crusade for all things LGBTQXRYZZZ+ really is.

One thing I am increasingly sure of is that this media addiction has actually made some people who were never on board with this kind of stuff more defensive and more forthright in their views than they were in the 90s. I remember watching the Crying Game as a kid and being shocked by the reveal....but then it wasn't that big a deal or something worth mentioning in school the next day. You just moved on.

Like I hinted earlier, I'm really begining to believe there is going to be a very intense and unfortunate backlash if the media and authorities don't take a chill pill and let things just evolve naturally. We didn't have this kind of acrimony when gay marriage was allowed, it just felt organic and you could hardly hear a whimper against it.

BTW, my response is probably targeted more at Transgender related news, which Sky also wrote about today....but yeah, we are meant to see all things as the same ..at least that's what the media keeps drumming in our ears.

The whole trans thing is really toxic - it really doesn't help that its advocates try to put it alongside being black, gay, female etc as something which is discriminated against in a (no pun intended) black-and-white way and if you're against you're some kind of intolerant nazi

the trans issue is far more nuanced, and some of the pro-trans agenda actually potentially infringes on women's rights in places, also it encourages kids/young people to make life-changing decisions which, IMPO, they're not ready to make

it should be discussed very calmly, not at the shrieking volume we see in reality

[HCZ_Reborn]

The whole trans thing is really toxic - it really doesn't help that its advocates try to put it alongside being black, gay, female etc as something which is discriminated against in a (no pun intended) black-and-white way and if you're against you're some kind of intolerant nazi

the trans issue is far more nuanced, and some of the pro-trans agenda actually potentially infringes on women's rights in places, also it encourages kids/young people to make life-changing decisions which, IMPO, they're not ready to make

it should be discussed very calmly, not at the shrieking volume we see in reality

This

[Letters]

Saka wins PFA young player of the year

https://www.arsenal.com/news/saka-wins-2223-pfa-young-player-year-award

[HCZ_Reborn]

Saka wins PFA young player of the year

https://www.arsenal.com/news/saka-wins-2223-pfa-young-player-year-award


Hmmm I think Martinelli was better last season

[mandela8]

Saka wins PFA young player of the year

https://www.arsenal.com/news/saka-wins-2223-pfa-young-player-year-award

:haha:

He wasn't even the best young player at Arsenal, ffs.

Exactly the deification I'm talking about. Absolutely absurd.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Hmmm I think Martinelli was better last season

Hmmmm......... well at least you didn't say Odegaard, still wonder why he won our player of the season award......scratch that, I know its because of his performance against the Spuds..... if only one game could win us the title :lol:

[Letters]

:haha:

He wasn't even the best young player at Arsenal, ffs.

Exactly the deification I'm talking about. Absolutely absurd.

I mostly posted this to see what bullshit you’d come up with.
You never disappoint

[mandela8]

I mostly posted this to see what bullshit you’d come up with.
You never disappoint

I think if you ask anyone who regularly watches arsenal they'd tell you Martinelli was better than him last season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Hmmmm......... well at least you didn't say Odegaard, still wonder why he won our player of the season award......scratch that, I know its because of his performance against the Spuds..... if only one game could win us the title :lol:

I did say at the time Odegaard was our player of the season, because he was the most improved. It wasn’t scoring against Spurs, it was his overall contribution to our attack. Do I think he still went missing against Liverpool and City away from home? Yes and that is disappointing but he was excellent last season but has reverted to type this season.

But he’s 24 so doesn’t count as a young player

[HCZ_Reborn]

I mostly posted this to see what bullshit you’d come up with.
You never disappoint

Although his obsession over Saka is over the top, he’s right that he wasn’t the best player at Arsenal last season

I think you’d acknowledge that as well.

[Letters]

Job opportunity du jour!

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/job-listing/data-analyst-arsenal-fc-JV_IC2671300_KO0,12_KE13,23.htm?jl=1008834190736

[Letters]

I think if you ask anyone who regularly watches arsenal they'd tell you Martinelli was better than him last season.

I’ll admit I raise an eyebrow at him winning, but he definitely deserved a nomination.
The point his even the nomination shows he’s not the duffer you make out. And this is voted for by the players, so your standard “most fans don’t know much about football” schtick doesn’t really work.

[Mac76]

I think if you ask anyone who regularly watches arsenal they'd tell you Martinelli was better than him last season.

Martinelli was my player of the season, young or not, whenever he got the ball (which thanks to Arteta, Xhaka and Zin wasn't as often as it should have been) you just knew he could create something and he often did, such an exciting player

[mandela8]

I’ll admit I raise an eyebrow at him winning, but he definitely deserved a nomination.
The point his even the nomination shows he’s not the duffer you make out. And this is voted for by the players, so your standard “most fans don’t know much about football” schtick doesn’t really work.

I've never said he is a duffer.

I've said he's immensely over rated and immune from criticism. I've also said that since his deification after the Euros, the special treatment he gets is fuckin laughable. This award is absolutely a testament to that. Most players are dumb as fuck anaw.

I suggest you refrain from debate until you actually start watching games, mate.

[HCZ_Reborn]

He does realise doesn’t he that there’s actual evidence of him saying Saka’s shite?

I don’t think Saka is immune from criticism certainly not on here and not even in the press where he gets accused of being soft when he’s kicked all over the place

We all blamed Saka for harikari passing on Saturday, we all at one point or another have said it wouldn’t hurt to drop him for a few games. So honestly don’t know what he thinks he’s referring to

Complete straw manning, to deflect from his own over the top critique. Where as he’d give Partey a 9 if he scored two own goals and did a Gary Lineker on the pitch.

I don’t know why he needs to do it, when he wants to he can make some pretty reasonable comments and clearly he watches the games enough to get a measure of what’s going on. I genuinely don’t think he’s trolling either, he’s just a genuine cretin at times.

[Letters]

I've never said he is a duffer.



Saka <sigh> his general contribution ranges from non existent to average.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5240&page=3&p=4574960#post4574960

[Letters]

While we're here...

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5117&page=2&p=4561451#post4561451


What a signing Richarlison would've been for arsenal. Real nasty cunt. 50m tae, ffs.
Can you imagine Saka even attempting to header either of those goals, ffs?

That wee coward would've been cowering far away from even being involved in those situations.

:haha:

#agedlikemilk

[mandela8]

While we're here...

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5117&page=2&p=4561451#post4561451



:haha:

#agedlikemilk

Did you quote the wrong posts?

Nowhere does it say duffer. He even got an "average" comment.

Whats your point on the Richarlison post?

[Letters]

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=528&page=93&p=4562280#post4562280


Nelson can't be any less effective than Saka, tbf

I could do this all day :lol:

[Letters]

Did you quote the wrong posts?

Nowhere does it say duffer.
Really? That's your "gotcha"? That you didn't exactly use that word. Behave yourself. The thought that he's over-rated is a reasonable one. But your ridiculous nonsense about how ineffective he is, is ludicrous.


Whats your point on the Richarlison post?

You wanna compare his and Saka's stats for last season?

[mandela8]

Really? That's your "gotcha"? That you didn't exactly use that word. Behave yourself. The thought that he's over-rated is a reasonable one. But your ridiculous nonsense about how ineffective he is, is ludicrous.



You wanna compare his and Saka's stats for last season?

My comments are largely based on his performances. If he consistently plays shite then I'll consistently say he was shite, so you should be able to easily find plenty of such comments, as per his performances. I do believe there's a player in there somewhere, so no, I've not said he's a duffer but he has been shite.

As for Richarlison, to what end? Stats are for idiots who don't watch games. Richarlison has been woeful for Spurs, thankfully. But Bergkamp was shite for Inter. Do you know how fitba works?

I'd suggest not as you look like you have the athletic ability of a potato and, no doubt, kick a ball like one.

I could do this all day.

[Letters]

Jan:

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5159&page=27&p=4567984#post4567984


Trossard is currently at a higher level and will have more of what both Martinelli and Saka lack, consistency. He's simply better than they are.


Then in May:

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5226&p=4573709#post4573709


Saka's standard hasn't dropped at all. He's been consistent all season. Eyes are simply, eventually, beginning to open.

I'm absolutely convinced he has leverage on Arteta.


:lol: Dear me.

[Letters]

My comments are largely based on his performances.
Well, your assessment of them but you've shown yourself incapable of objectivity. Your assessment of his performances isn't shared by
The fans - BuT tHeY dOnT kNoW wHaT tHeYrE tAlKiNg AbOuT
The press - BuT tHeY dEiFy HiM bEcAuSe ReAsOnS
The manager - BuT sAkA oBvIoUsLy HaS sOmE hOlD oVeR hIm
His fellow professionals - BuT tHeY dEiFy HiM tOo BeCaUsE rEaSoNs.

You'll do anything to dismiss everyone else's opinions rather than considering your own may be wrong. Even if we can agree that PFA player of the year is a stretch, he definitely deserved a nomination and I reckon his place in the team of the year is justified. And you go around posting shite like the stuff I quoted above.

As for Richarlison, you were creaming yourself after he scores two goals in an early European game for them last season. Stats are not the be all and end all, neither are they irrelevant. He's been shite. It's possible he'd have been better for us, but it's not a given. Your claim about being the one who knows about football around here is somewhat undermined by all this nonsense.

[mandela8]

Well, your assessment of them but you've shown yourself incapable of objectivity. Your assessment of his performances isn't shared by
The fans - BuT tHeY dOnT kNoW wHaT tHeYrE tAlKiNg AbOuT
The press - BuT tHeY dEiFy HiM bEcAuSe ReAsOnS
The manager - BuT sAkA oBvIoUsLy HaS sOmE hOlD oVeR hIm
His fellow professionals - BuT tHeY dEiFy HiM tOo BeCaUsE rEaSoNs.

You'll do anything to dismiss everyone else's opinions rather than considering your own may be wrong. Even if we can agree that PFA player of the year is a stretch, he definitely deserved a nomination and I reckon his place in the team of the year is justified. And you go around posting shite like the stuff I quoted above.

As for Richarlison, you were creaming yourself after he scores two goals in an early European game for them last season. Stats are not the be all and end all, neither are they irrelevant. He's been shite. It's possible he'd have been better for us, but it's not a given. Your claim about being the one who knows about football around here is somewhat undermined by all this nonsense.

Well, aye, clearly I'll dismiss whoever is wrong. What's the issue with that �� it's basically all from the same source anyway, so multiple examples are a bit pointless.

As for Richarlison, those specific goals were perfect demonstrations of attributes Saka has simply never demonstrated. That still stands true so, again, I'm missing your point.

You're struggling here but you don't watch games, so no surprise. You're like the fat woman in the office telling people they shouldn't eat carbs after 6.

Just stop.

[mandela8]

Jan:

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5159&page=27&p=4567984#post4567984




Then in May:

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5226&p=4573709#post4573709




:lol: Dear me.

*sigh*

Never being consistently good and being consistently shite are, largely, the same point.

Saka has never been consistently good. Saka has been consistently shite. Those two statements are both true.

[Letters]

Well, aye, clearly I'll dismiss whoever is wrong. What's the issue with that
The issue is that when your opinion is contrary to basically everyone you have to keep finding ever more ridiculous excuses why you're the one that's right and they're all wrong.
Cognitive dissonance or trolling, you tell me :shrug:

[Letters]

Saka has never been consistently good. Saka has been consistently shite.
https://www.thepfa.com/news/2023/8/29/pfa-premier-league-team-of-the-year-2023

But it's only voted for by his fellow professionals, what do they know?

:coffee:

[mandela8]

The issue is that when your opinion is contrary to basically everyone you have to keep finding ever more ridiculous excuses why you're the one that's right and they're all wrong.
Cognitive dissonance or trolling, you tell me :shrug:

Well, that's largely fine by me, man. I mean, look at this place. Before I came back no one dared criticize him. That's beginning to change, slowly. When/if, the media start reporting on him objectively you'll see the same change. People are very supple creatures who'll generally follow whatever narrative they're fed. That's all we're seeing here. Nothing complicated.

[mandela8]

https://twitter.com/AFCAMDEN/status/1696637266695692339?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1696637266695692339%7Ctwgr% 5E0b3b7018c6d305a51f4ca7c51c6ff1e02ec4408b%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.othboxing.com%2Fforum%2F index.php%3Fthreads%2Fthe-football-thread.38%2Fpage-5151

<sips tea>

[Mac76]

Well, that's largely fine by me, man. I mean, look at this place. Before I came back no one dared criticize him. That's beginning to change, slowly. When/if, the media start reporting on him objectively you'll see the same change. People are very supple creatures who'll generally follow whatever narrative they're fed. That's all we're seeing here. Nothing complicated.

I realise arguing with you about this is the definition of pointless, but...

Saka isn't 'shite'.

He is very good at beating players and creating scoring opportunities for himself and other players

In terms of goals and assists, these are our top four players from last sseason (PL only):

Bukayo Saka 14+11
Martin Odegaard 15+7
Gabriel Martinelli 15+5
Gabriel Jesus 11+6

Is he perfect? no - Saka's faults are that he can drift out of games and also, as on Saturday, miss the odd easy chance - but even Haaland missed a pel at the weekend so Saka's hardly alone in that ...

He also occasionally takes too many touches in the area instead of passing more quickly

He can perhaps appear a bit one-dimensional in his play but is that him or the system, and tbh given I'm wishing we'd make more (or any) use of players like Tierney and Gabriel, I'm not going to complain about someone simply being good in his one favoured position.

you just can't dismiss those figures

[HCZ_Reborn]

Saka and Martinelli are the two players that have made me feel positive about this club for the first time in years. First time I watched Saka play was against Eintracht Frankfurt about four years ago and even without the goal it was abundantly clear this was some player we had, it was a genuine pleasure watching him.

Martinelli I first saw in the home game against Standard Liege, his pace, his runs and his finishing were a joy to behold.


They’ve both been disappointing this season but it’s hard to think of a player who hasn’t. But we are bloody lucky to have both of them, and tieing them both down to new contracts was the best bit of business this club has done in a long time

[mandela8]

I realise arguing with you about this is the definition of pointless, but...

Saka isn't 'shite'.

He is very good at beating players and creating scoring opportunities for himself and other players

In terms of goals and assists, these are our top four players from last sseason (PL only):

Bukayo Saka 14+11
Martin Odegaard 15+7
Gabriel Martinelli 15+5
Gabriel Jesus 11+6

Is he perfect? no - Saka's faults are that he can drift out of games and also, as on Saturday, miss the odd easy chance - but even Haaland missed a pel at the weekend so Saka's hardly alone in that ...

He also occasionally takes too many touches in the area instead of passing more quickly

He can perhaps appear a bit one-dimensional in his play but is that him or the system, and tbh given I'm wishing we'd make more (or any) use of players like Tierney and Gabriel, I'm not going to complain about someone simply being good in his one favoured position.

you just can't dismiss those figures

And that's fine, man. Although, I will dismiss the assist stat as one of the most pointless in all of fitba. Meaningless nonsense.

Other than that, decent return. I think if you plug someone else in there then not only do they do better individual numbers but the team do too, in terms of style and output. Pure speculation, of course. But I'd put money on it, tbh. Far too many opportunities and chances die at his feet, as he slows the game down, cuts inside, struggle to make incisive passes, etc.

As usual, I will caveat by saying I do think he's at the mercy of Arteta's tactics. I'm almost positive he's instructed to do what he does, which is a probably why Arteta is so obsessed with him, as he robotically follows his instructions. I think if he was freed up a little we'd see more from him. I'd even just settle for him getting to the byline more often...obviously that'd require him to develop his right foot.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://twitter.com/AFCAMDEN/status/1696637266695692339?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1696637266695692339%7Ctwgr% 5E0b3b7018c6d305a51f4ca7c51c6ff1e02ec4408b%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.othboxing.com%2Fforum%2F index.php%3Fthreads%2Fthe-football-thread.38%2Fpage-5151

<sips tea>

Nice.

They should switch names with Arteta so we can count how many crazy people walk the earth.

[mandela8]

Me and Thierry, man...

Thierry Henry : "You can't play Partey & Rice together in same midfield because neither can play the number 8 ball carrier role. Both are typical old school defensive midfielders and like to sit deep to anchor the midfield. Playing two defensive midfielders in a pivot is something Mourinho used to do ten years ago. It does not work anymore, especially if you want to be a possession based team with an attacking mentality..."

[Mac76]

Me and Thierry, man...

Thierry Henry : "You can't play Partey & Rice together in same midfield because neither can play the number 8 ball carrier role. Both are typical old school defensive midfielders and like to sit deep to anchor the midfield. Playing two defensive midfielders in a pivot is something Mourinho used to do ten years ago. It does not work anymore, especially if you want to be a possession based team with an attacking mentality..."

My view as well, for most games IMO we just need a back four with Rice in front - if people are saying no player is undroppable that needs to include Partey, it's about having a deeper squad we can draw on - Partey is older and more injury-prone, it doesn't hurt to manage his minutes anyway - he can play cup games, step in for Rice if injured etc

[HCZ_Reborn]

My view as well, for most games IMO we just need a back four with Rice in front - if people are saying no player is undroppable that needs to include Partey, it's about having a deeper squad we can draw on - Partey is older and more injury-prone, it doesn't hurt to manage his minutes anyway - he can play cup games, step in for Rice if injured etc

I think another reason I’m annoyed with the Rice signing is because Partey has become undroppable and that for the reason you’ve described is not desirable. Rice doesn’t have the technical ability, the range of passing or strength of Partey and that’s even with all Partey’s flaws which includes a propensity to be casual in possession and in passing.

I genuinely think no one wants to admit what they know to be true about Rice which is that signing him was a massive mistake. His ability level was West Ham, he’s hard working, a tidy player and has good statistics. But statistics show our XG is higher than last season, so statistics are meaningless.

There seems to be a belief that if a player is determined and confident it will make up for a lack of natural ability but it doesn’t. Rice isn’t bringing anything to the team, away from home we had no problem keeping clean sheets and at home he doesn’t have the pace to be of any use when teams break on us.


The only possible use he has is alongside Partey when we want to play for a draw against teams like Man City. These brief cameos of him surging forward and shooting on goal are essentially a waste of an attacking move, he’s not a goalscorer.

So in reality we are absolutely reliant on Partey being fit for every game

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://x.com/gunnersc0m/status/1697602729659515143?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw

Is this Lego Haired Mysteron Cadaver cunt trying to pretend that he didn’t play the same team and same tactics game in game out last season, regardless of who he was playing?

A proper sports journalist would have called him out on that

[Mac76]

https://x.com/gunnersc0m/status/1697602729659515143?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw

Is this Lego Haired Mysteron Cadaver cunt trying to pretend that he didn’t play the same team and same tactics game in game out last season, regardless of who he was playing?

A proper sports journalist would have called him out on that

he really has gone nuts

[HCZ_Reborn]

he really has gone nuts

Perhaps, and I know I say enough about his state of mind. But I just think he’s a garden variety Cunt when all said and done.

Maybe he’s got delusions of grandeur having been over promoted. And too many people thinking he’s some brilliant, pioneering coach


That said he’s not getting tetchy at the question, he’s more being patronising “look you pissants”

[Letters]

he really has gone nuts

I mean, famously I am an apologist for him but holy shit that was deranged.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The thing is I get the need for changing things, all of us were screaming for that last season but putting square pegs in round holes is not changing things, it’s being a Wally.

The whole press conference gets better. He says we can’t spend our way out of Timber injury, no that’s fair enough….might it have been something to consider not sending both Tierney and Tavares out on loan though?.

The frustrating thing is no journalist challenges this. Frankly I’m glad he can’t spend anymore money given we wasted 200 million in the summer and are weaker than last season, but surely trying to bring a player in on loan or the more simpler option of not getting rid of players who could be useful might help.


Le Grove the blogger who agitated for years to bin off Wenger is his minister of propaganda because as someone who works in the corporate world, he loves the bullshit and the idea of selling visions. The type of guy who would have thought Enron was on the up and up, until it was too late.

[Mac76]

I think we wasted £115m, £65m on Havertz plus Rice ahould have been £50m

[mandela8]

I think we wasted £115m, £65m on Havertz plus Rice ahould have been £50m

Do you think we needed Rice when we had Partey and Jorginho though?

The only argument for it is that Rice will be here long after those two have gone and be a club stalwart. If they felt it was now or never for him then I can understand the move, but not agree with it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think we wasted £115m, £65m on Havertz plus Rice ahould have been £50m


Shouldn’t have bought Rice full stop and we were never getting him for 50 million due to English tax.


Should have signed Caicedo, another midfielder and a striker. Timber I don’t think we needed another defender we just needed better but it’s hard to trust defensive purchases when so many of them have been poor , and although easy to say with hindsight that’s money wasted because his career is over. You don’t recover fully from an ACL injury especially when it
came about non contact.


Havertz? Shouldn’t have signed but I think it’s a case of trying to get the best out of him which means removing him from 8. And Rice should serve as a warning for overspending on average players…it’s hilarious almost that we paid only slightly less for him than Madrid did for Bellingham. Jesus what we could have achieved with a player like that.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Do you think we needed Rice when we had Partey and Jorginho though?

The only argument for it is that Rice will be here long after those two have gone and be a club stalwart. If they felt it was now or never for him then I can understand the move, but not agree with it.


We needed two midfielders not just one. We just signed the wrong ones.

[Marc Overmars]

Do you think we needed Rice when we had Partey and Jorginho though?

The only argument for it is that Rice will be here long after those two have gone and be a club stalwart. If they felt it was now or never for him then I can understand the move, but not agree with it.

This is my feeling too.

Jorginho and Partey are both out of contract at the end of this season. We know the club were prepared to let Partey leave this summer if the right offer came in too.

Rice is a nailed on captain and should become part of the club furniture. He wasn’t worth 100m but I’m sure the club have banked on a long term impact from him which would make the 100m look worth it.

This season might just have to be a hot mess until the squad naturally becomes more streamlined.

[HCZ_Reborn]

This is my feeling too.

Jorginho and Partey are both out of contract at the end of this season. We know the club were prepared to let Partey leave this summer if the right offer came in too.

Rice is a nailed on captain and should become part of the club furniture. He wasn’t worth 100m but I’m sure the club have banked on a long term impact from him which would make the 100m look worth it.

This season might just have to be a hot mess until the squad naturally becomes more streamlined.


I’m sorry to become a broken record, but there’s no future for the club synonymous with success whilst there’s a future for Rice at the club. Our best bet is for him to join one of the Saudi clubs next summer….and see how much of the fee we will recoup for him. Unfortunately when you’ve invested that much in a player, the club will double down and insist on him playing.

Hopefully given time, people will let go of that tendency people have for sunk cost fallacy. Accept that football isn’t mountain climbing…it doesn’t matter how determined you are, how strong you are mentally….you have to have the talent to back it up, and he doesn’t.

[HCZ_Reborn]

To clarify Rice is better than a lot of the absolute garbage we’ve played in midfield for years. At his absolute best he’s a slightly inferior Gilberto Silva.

But also there’s a lot of far better players we had too, Torreira is a better midfielder than Rice, whilst Rice is stronger than Guendouzi, Guendouzi is a better passer of the ball….but then again as long as he was under no pressure so was Xhaka.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I’m sorry to become a broken record, but there’s no future for the club synonymous with success whilst there’s a future for Rice at the club. Our best bet is for him to join one of the Saudi clubs next summer….and see how much of the fee we will recoup for him. Unfortunately when you’ve invested that much in a player, the club will double down and insist on him playing.

Hopefully given time, people will let go of that tendency people have for sunk cost fallacy. Accept that football isn’t mountain climbing…it doesn’t matter how determined you are, how strong you are mentally….you have to have the talent to back it up, and he doesn’t.

I think your assessment of Rice is clouded by the fact you preferred another player who went for roughly the same amount.

Though like you, I also wanted Caicedo over Rice, I must admit I'm not having sleepless nights over it anymore. I mean I still do believe a partnership of Partey and Caicedo is superior to what we are witnessing now, however I don't see Rice as an inferior player like you do.

From the 3 games we've witnessed (and the Citeh game) its clear he's a different kind of player from the box to box midfielder we all envisioned, however, the kid "knows his shit", plays with his brains and is only going to get better.. I can't really describe it or put it in more coherent words...but I know that if I'm playing a final against a Citeh, Madrid or Barca, he's one of the first names I'll be putting on the sheet from our current squad. He's a signing a coach like Klopp would do wonders with.

I mean yes, the balance is wrong currently......and yes, he probably shouldn't be starting every game with Partey, however that's all down to Captain Black being a royal mong.

We will get value from Rice either from Arteta or someone else. I am sure of it. As for Kai Havertz, if we were in a 3rd world dictatorship, I would be feeding Arteta to my pet lions for sport.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think your assessment of Rice is clouded by the fact you preferred another player who went for roughly the same amount.

Though like you, I also wanted Caicedo over Rice, I must admit I'm not having sleepless nights over it anymore. I mean I still do believe a partnership of Partey and Caicedo is superior to what we are witnessing now, however I don't see Rice as an inferior player like you do.

From the 3 games we've witnessed (and the Citeh game) its clear he's a different kind of player from the box to box midfielder we all envisioned, however, the kid "knows his shit", plays with his brains and is only going to get better.. I can't really describe it or put it in more coherent words...but I know that if I'm playing a final against a Citeh, Madrid or Barca, he's one of the first names I'll be putting on the sheet from our current squad. He's a signing a coach like Klopp would do wonders with.

I mean yes, the balance is wrong currently......and yes, he probably shouldn't be starting every game with Partey, however that's all down to Captain Black being a royal mong.

We will get value from Rice either from Arteta or someone else. I am sure of it. As for Kai Havertz, if we were in a 3rd world dictatorship, I would be feeding Arteta to my pet lions for sport.


Oh come on, this is insane…it’s like Ramsey all over again. I’m not saying Rice is shit because he’s not shit, he’s between the levels of average to decent and he’s a hard working professional. I’m not saying anything controversial…you all know it.

He’s surplus to requirements because we have two midfielders in Jorginho and Partey who aren’t only better than him they are miles better than him. The point of buying a midfielder arguably two was to improve midfield. We needed to do better than Xhaka and Partey (Partey is an excellent player but he can go massively off the boil and is injury prone) and Xhaka was a liability.

Instead we signed Rice is inferior (I’m not saying it as an insult just a statement of fact) to Jorginho and Partey and we are playing Havertz at no8. It’s not that I would have preferred Caicedo it’s that it’s obvious to anyone who has ever watched a game of football that he was a player we needed to take us forward, as well as a box to box midfielder

I didn’t envision a box to box player in Rice, I knew full well that he wasn’t that type of player so I don’t know what you were expecting. From the outset I never really saw a place for Rice in the team other than to stodge up midfield when playing one of the bigger sides, and he was a better option than Elneny for that. But for 100 million you do of course want far more than that.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Mac76 stated that we paid 50million too much for him. We haven’t. We paid 80-85 million too much for him. Because if he had never declared for England and stayed as a ROI international there is simply no way any side would have paid more than 15-20 million for him.

And if we had paid even as much as 50million for him, if he wasn’t an English player we’d all be scratching our heads over the purpose of the signing the way we are about Havertz.

[Chippy]

Mac76 stated that we paid 50million too much for him. We haven’t. We paid 80-85 million too much for him. Because if he had never declared for England and stayed as a ROI international there is simply no way any side would have paid more than 15-20 million for him.

And if we had paid even as much as 50million for him, if he wasn’t an English player we’d all be scratching our heads over the purpose of the signing the way we are about Havertz.

I really did think after last season we would kick on.
However, we have regressed and bought two very average players in Rice and Havertz for £160m! What the fuck? It was also a mistake moving out Tierney and freezing out Gabriel.

[Mac76]

I really did think after last season we would kick on.
However, we have regressed and bought two very average players in Rice and Havertz for £160m! What the fuck? It was also a mistake moving out Tierney and freezing out Gabriel.

I think Rice is slightly better than average and Havertz is well below, but otherwise agree, though I wasn't as confident as you we'd improve after last season, not with Arteta in charge

[Chippy]

I think Rice is slightly better than average and Havertz is well below, but otherwise agree, though I wasn't as confident as you we'd improve after last season, not with Arteta in charge
Fair point Mac, but you or I could have improved things with £250m and just use the players in the correct position. Don't know what he is trying to do.

[Marc Overmars]

Saka has been nominated for the Ballon d’Or. :lol:

I mean, I love the boy but come on…

Any thoughts Mandela?

[mandela8]

Saka has been nominated for the Ballon d’Or. :lol:

I mean, I love the boy but come on…

Any thoughts Mandela?

:haha:

I telt yis, man.

Deified.

Even he must be embarrassed about it, ffs.

[Letters]

Saka has been nominated for the Ballon d’Or. :lol:
:lol: Wow.

To be fair, that is the 30 man long-list. But still a bit silly.

[Chippy]

[QUOTE=mandela8;4578991]:haha:

I telt yis, man.

Which language is this?

[HCZ_Reborn]

[QUOTE=mandela8;4578991]:haha:

I telt yis, man.

What language is this?


Cod Glaswegian

[WMUG]

https://youtu.be/eFVQpsPZhHk?si=M_GPLFcPJyqQphmo&t=160

:d