Match Reaction vs Swansea

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Any half decent manager would have seen that Montero was a threat all game down the flank and was getting the best of Chambers, so would have sorted that threat out, instead of allowing it for 80 minutes until he finally helped them score.

Wenger the genius!

[adzzzbatch]

Fuck off the lot them, I'm tired of this shit.

[selassie]

Im just bored of the team, sick of the manager. We've managed to surrender any challenge of the title already.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Wenger. :wave:

Off you pop.

[Power n Glory]

:haha:

What a joke!

[Ernesto]

Even if we'd have come out of that game with 3 points, I genuinely would have been embarrassed by that performance. It was totally devoid of passion, desire and a will to win. I'm not sure how they're instructed or whether it's the players being unable to follow the simplest instruction, but that was wholly unacceptable.

I'm beginning to hate everything this club stands for.

[Marc Overmars]

Guys guys, we've never managed a game in our lives. What do we know.

We must sit back and observe this shower of rubbish we are served every week in silence.

On to the next one.

[Munchies]

https://twitter.com/hashtag/wengerout?f=realtime&src=hash

Wengerout trending worldwide :lol:

--
Wenger is done.

Any manager would've done something to counter Chambers getting skinned all game. He does fucking nothing all game.

[RomfordPele]

Not much to say really. Nothing will change until wenger fucks off.

Two and a half years more of arrogance, cowardice, incompetence, conceit, deceit and utter contempt for fans, the media and anyone else who questions his genius.

Enjoy it everyone.

[Niall_Quinn]

First up, win lose or draw we were a steaming pile of disorganised shit all the way through that game and it's entirely down to the manager. He watched a zero performance all the way through to the point where we went a goal behind before doing anything. The he reacted. Who couldn't do that? Any shitty fan could have lobbed players on after going a goal behind. He could see Chambers getting torn to shreds down the flank. Couldn't he? Well we could. He could see Santi fucking up everything that came within a mile of him. He could see Alexis was isolated and not getting enough of the ball. Why the fuck does he sit on his hands as this sort of shit unfolds game after game after game? Is he really such an automaton he can't possibly do what every other manager does and REACT?

Wenger's done. The only way out of this for him is to do the honourable thing and blame Ramsey.

[adzzzbatch]

We've got 2 weeks to wallow in that shit yay.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Any half decent manager would have seen that Montero was a threat all game down the flank and was getting the best of Chambers, so would have sorted that threat out, instead of allowing it for 80 minutes until he finally helped them score.

Wenger the genius!


Problem is with who?....Bellerin?.....pacier than Chambers but about as much fortitude as watercress soup

Should have definitley brought on Wilshere earlier as yet again we had no presence in the midfield of the park, Ramsey too busy trying to win a goal of the season award.

Wasn't a great performance, but not terrible....just completely collapsed in a few minutes.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Any half decent manager would have seen that Montero was a threat all game down the flank and was getting the best of Chambers, so would have sorted that threat out, instead of allowing it for 80 minutes until he finally helped them score.

Wenger the genius!

I'm sorry, but nobody other than all the people who posted in the match thread saw it coming.

[Niall_Quinn]

Guys guys, we've never managed a game in our lives. What do we know.

We must sit back and observe this shower of rubbish we are served every week in silence.

On to the next one.

You are bitter.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm sorry, but nobody other than all the people who posted in the match thread saw it coming.

I agree. This is Letter's fault. If this web site was more popular, or even popular in any way, Wenger could have factored our postings into the computer program that is in charge of the team. As it is, Letters has done zero SEO, zero marketing and fuck all social activity. And we see the results.

Thanks Letters. Nice one mate.

[Marc Overmars]

United next. :haha:

We're going to make Van Gaal look like a proper genius in that one.

[Master Splinter]

WUMger the psychopath strikes again. He seems to enjoy the enmity he gets for making painfully bad decisions.

We had to sign another centre-back, but he didn't. Chambers was doing well in the CB role and is currently our only viable option there, but he reverts him to RB where Bellerin has done admirably. To compound the madness, he throws poor Monreal to the dogs by playing him in a completely ill-suited position.

When Chambers is clearly struggling out there, nothing is done to help him and just to reiterate a point everyone but Wenfer can see, Swansea score the winning goal by taking advantage of the child abuse that has been allowed to continue down that side all game.

Add to this a midfield that cannot hold on to the ball anymore with the woeful Flamini as the figurehead, a never-performing Cazorla, a rusty Ramsey and an allergy to make substitutions to take advantage of our ascendancy and you have a cavalcade of fuck-uppery that extends with every passing game.

And sadly, Wenget seems to either be criminally oblivious to it all or more worryingly, revelling in his self-made chaos.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Problem is with who?....Bellerin?.....pacier than Chambers but about as much fortitude as watercress soup

Should have definitley brought on Wilshere earlier as yet again we had no presence in the midfield of the park, Ramsey too busy trying to win a goal of the season award.

Wasn't a great performance, but not terrible....just completely collapsed in a few minutes.

:haha: :haha: :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

Ramsey too busy trying to win a goal of the season award.

Not true at all. Ramsey was almost anonymous, probably afraid to touch the fucking ball in case his own manager singled him out as the main problem. Is it any surprise Ramsey was shite after Wenger's antics this week?

[selassie]

Problem is with who?....Bellerin?.....pacier than Chambers but about as much fortitude as watercress soup

Should have definitley brought on Wilshere earlier as yet again we had no presence in the midfield of the park, Ramsey too busy trying to win a goal of the season award.

Wasn't a great performance, but not terrible....just completely collapsed in a few minutes.

Well Bellerin is a pacey full back so maybe he should have come on.

Tactically we are the laughing stock of the league, we just watched the game pass us by and reacted when it was too late.

8 million pound a year for this? Wenger is a fraud, he wouldnt be able to spot a fire at a bonfire night.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wasn't a great performance, but not terrible....

Not true at all. It was a dire performance. That first half was beyond belief bad.

[Ernesto]

United next. :haha:

We're going to make Van Gaal look like a proper genius in that one.

No doubt I'll be firing myself up with continuous "Come on Arsenal" chants from tea-time in a couple of weeks.

I hate my fickle self. :(

[adzzzbatch]

United next. :haha:

We're going to make Van Gaal look like a proper genius in that one.

If chambers couldn't cope with Montero or whatever his fucking name is, how the fuck is he gonna cope with di maria?

[Niall_Quinn]

WUMger the psychopath strikes again. He seems to enjoy the enmity he gets for making painfully bad decisions.

We had to sign another centre-back, but he didn't. Chambers was doing well in the CB role and is currently our only viable option there, but he reverts him to RB where Bellerin has done admirably. To compound the madness, he throws poor Monreal to the dogs by playing him in a completely ill-suited position.

When Chambers is clearly struggling out there, nothing is done to help him and just to reiterate a point everyone but Wenfer can see, Swansea score the winning goal by taking advantage of the child abuse that has been allowed to continue down that side all game.

Add to this a midfield that cannot hold on to the ball anymore with the woeful Flamini as the figurehead, a never-performing Cazorla, a rusty Ramsey and an allergy to make substitutions to take advantage of our ascendancy and you have a cavalcade of fuck-uppery that extends with every passing game.

And sadly, Wenget seems to either be criminally oblivious to it all or more worryingly, revelling in his self-made chaos.

I don't blame Flamini. Clearly he's not a DM. And clearly his instructions are to get the ball and play it 2 yards sideways or backwards max or he'll be killed. This is Wenger, not the players. These players are good enough if given a decent system and some tactics to work with. We are still trying to be Barcelona of 5 years ago when even Barcelona has moved on from that. Wenger will realise he has got this wrong some time around 2046. Then he will make sweeping changes.

[Munchies]

1 up and defending like fucking cunts

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2BNWH_CAAAgxfQ.jpg

Wenger fuck off already please

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Not true at all. It was a dire performance. That first half was beyond belief bad.

don't agree i think the overall performance was one of our better ones this season (of course that only goes to underline how bad we've played this season), i know we won against sunderland but we could barely keep hold of the ball, and we literally created nothing and were gifted two goals

at the very least certainly our best performance since the october break.

[RomfordPele]

On a practical note, are there any free agent CBs we could nab for a month as it's pretty fucking obvious we are not going to see kos until January at he earliest.

What's big sol up to these days...? (I'm only half joking.)

[Niall_Quinn]

If chambers couldn't cope with Montero or whatever his fucking name is, how the fuck is he gonna cope with di maria?

Well sometimes you have to change things to account for the players the opposition put on the pitch. If Chambers has as much pace as the guy he is up against then fine, no worries. If he doesn't then the manager needs to account for that.

But here's the real question.

If Swansea can leverage the pace of Montero, what the fuck is up with us considering we have Walcott, Ox, Alexis and Welbeck in our team. Embarrassing. Isn't it?

[Munchies]

On a practical note, are there any free agent CBs we could nab for a month as it's pretty fucking obvious we are not going to see kos until January at he earliest.

What's big sol up to these days...? (I'm only half joking.)

Joseph Yobo :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

don't agree i think the overall performance was one of our better ones this season

You are entitled to your incorrect opinion.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Alexis should just do the non-celebration from now on.

[selassie]

1 up and defending like fucking cunts

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2BNWH_CAAAgxfQ.jpg

Wenger fuck off already please

Speechless

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You are entitled to your incorrect opinion.

Your graciousness overwhelms me :haha::haha:

[Munchies]

@piersmorgan

Wenger should be fired for his shocking mis-management of our defence alone. But who will have the guts to do it? #afc

[selassie]

Alexis should just do the non-celebration from now on.

He'll be gone at the end of the season if we dont improve.

[adzzzbatch]

@piersmorgan

Wenger should be fired for his shocking mis-management of our defence alone. But who will have the guts to do it? #afc

:gp:

[Marc Overmars]

I don't understand why Bellerin isn't playing, he might be a kid but at least it's a position he's training for. What is the point of throwing Monreal under a bus? It's just senseless but of course this all boils down to the mismanagement in the transfer window. The chickens have come home to roost.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't understand why Bellerin isn't playing, he might be a kid but at least it's a position he's training for. What is the point of throwing Monreal under a bus? It's just senseless but of course this all boils down to the mismanagement in the transfer window. The chickens have come home to roost.

The steamed chickens have come home to roost, because we don't want players here who would eat fried chicken.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

What is the point of throwing Monreal under a bus?.

I don't know if there's any point, but it sounds fun

[Master Splinter]

I don't blame Flamini. Clearly he's not a DM. And clearly his instructions are to get the ball and play it 2 yards sideways or backwards max or he'll be killed. This is Wenger, not the players. These players are good enough if given a decent system and some tactics to work with. We are still trying to be Barcelona of 5 years ago when even Barcelona has moved on from that. Wenger will realise he has got this wrong some time around 2046. Then he will make sweeping changes.

I don't blame Flamini either.

And we're not trying to be Barcelona. We're not trying to be anything. There's no shape, no ideas, no cohesion, nothing. Potentially excellent players are being wasted and non-performing ones are being rewarded. It's a complete mess. Wengerball is now a bigger myth than Van Gaal's supposed genius.

[Niall_Quinn]

On a positive note, this was a big step forward from the Anderlecht result.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I don't blame Flamini either.

We're not trying to be anything.

And clearly succeeding.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

don't agree i think the overall performance was one of our better ones this season (of course that only goes to underline how bad we've played this season), i know we won against sunderland but we could barely keep hold of the ball, and we literally created nothing and were gifted two goals

at the very least certainly our best performance since the october break.

That was a shower of shite from the get go and you label it as 'one of our better performances this season'. What the fuck were you watching you clown?

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't blame Flamini either.

And we're not trying to be Barcelona. We're not trying to be anything. There's no shape, no ideas, no cohesion, nothing. Potentially excellent players are being wasted and non-performing ones are being rewarded. It's a complete mess. Wengerball is now a bigger myth than Van Gaal's supposed genius.

Just the other day Shaun Custis said all Wenger teams play great football. So you are wrong.

[Niall_Quinn]

And clearly succeeding.

It's on!

[Letters]

Wenger will realise he has got this wrong some time around 2046. Then he will make sweeping changes.
We only have to wait till about a quarter to nine?

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

You are entitled to your incorrect opinion.

He brings it on himself then cries when we say he's deluded :lol:

[adzzzbatch]

Just the other day Shaun Custis said all Wenger teams play great football. So you are wrong.

Pundits still come out with the same old shit "Arsenal are a good passing and attacking side" This is simply not true!

[Niall_Quinn]

We only have to wait till about a quarter to nine?

It's on!

[Marc Overmars]

Flamini. :lol:

He is the lowest breed of footballer.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Pundits still come out with the same old shit "Arsenal are a good passing and attacking side" This is simply not true!

Its not true that pundits say that?

[Niall_Quinn]

I absolutely fucking DEMAND a MS Wenger impersonation after a fuck up like that!

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Pundits still come out with the same old shit "Arsenal are a good passing and attacking side" This is simply not true!

What do they know they haven't managed.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Its not true that pundits say that?

They do it like this: "Arsenal are great to watch and we all know that but the worry you have about them is defensively...".

[Niall_Quinn]

Its not true that pundits say that?

He's making shit up as he goes.

[Marc Overmars]

Pundits still come out with the same old shit "Arsenal are a good passing and attacking side" This is simply not true!

Not heard one pundit talk about how rotten we are as an attacking unit now, when talking about our deficiencies. Although I guess it shows how rubbish the defence is when everything else gets overlooked.

[Power n Glory]

Anyone shocked by the result? Was busy watching F1 and flipped over after the race to hear we conceded.Than had the joy of seeing the 2nd goal. I really don't care for this team anymore. I just want to wake up one morning to hear Wenger has been sacked or resigned.

[Master Splinter]

I absolutely fucking DEMAND a MS Wenger impersonation after a fuck up like that!

Here:



Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger, speaking to Sky Sports:
"It is difficult to explain how we lost the lead. We were in control but they did not give up and we lost some decisive challenges in the middle of the park and we paid for that. That is where we lost the battle.

"We were not in too much trouble, we had the best chances, it is a place that is always tight and it was a very tactical game.

"I worry that we concede the goals, yes. At the moment we have different worries than that [the gap between Arsenal and Chelsea]. We just lost a game that we feel we should not have lost. You have to win the games you can win and today was one. If you want to challenge for the Premier League you have to be a bit more realistic."



And a bit more:



"We eased off at 1-0 and let them back into the game."


:haha:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That was a shower of shite from the get go and you label it as 'one of our better performances this season'. What the fuck were you watching you clown?

You mean apart from your mother being gang banged by black midgets wearing arsene wenger masks in a shoddily made porn film?....(the title of which is called Arsene Knows....that your Mum is a vapid whore)

I'd say our performance was a lot better than a lot of our performances this season in terms of passing and movement, no point talking about our defensive performance because we don't have a defence per se.

[Letters]

Anyone shocked by the result?
No! :lol:

I have a sneaky feeling we might not win the league this season, you know.

[Niall_Quinn]

Here:



And a bit more:



:haha:

Not one of your more realistic ones tbf. A bit half-hearted and exaggerated in places to the point where it became ridiculous. Also, haven't you done this one before - like a thousand time before?

[Power n Glory]

You mean apart from your mother being gang banged by black midgets wearing arsene wenger masks in a shoddily made porn film?....(the title of which is called Arsene Knows....that your Mum is a vapid whore)

I'd say our performance was a lot better than a lot of our performances this season in terms of passing and movement, no point talking about our defensive performance because we don't have a defence per se.

Oh dear. Steady on.

[Niall_Quinn]

No! :lol:

I have a sneaky feeling we might not win the league this season, you know.

That's because you are a pessimistic realist who constantly gets sidetracked by facts.

[Niall_Quinn]

"We eased off at 1-0 and let them back into the game."

We eased off at 1-0...

We eased off at 2-0...

We eased off at 3-0...

We eased off at 4-0...

Note to self: Tell team not to ease off.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

You know I am beginning to think it wasn't all Mesut's fault.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Oh dear. Steady on.

there is literally no point debating anything unless you can make ad hominem remarks about someone's mother

Of course his mother could be dead, in which case i've almost certainly watched a snuff film :faint:

[Marc Overmars]

We eased off at 1-0. :haha:

Why??? After what happened in the previous game that is scandalous.

Any match savvy he once had, is now completely gone. Cardboard cutout of a manager.

[Niall_Quinn]

You know I am beginning to think it wasn't all Mesut's fault.

I'm beginning to think you are Neil Ashton.

[Master Splinter]

Not one of your more realistic ones tbf. A bit half-hearted and exaggerated in places to the point where it became ridiculous. Also, haven't you done this one before - like a thousand time before?

Well yes, I must tell you I have done a thousand interviews.

We have people with opinions and they have not even done ten.

Opinions are not a quality. To perform on the pitch and do the talking there is a quality.

Have we done our talking today?

I will not speak about this.

[Master Splinter]

Any match savvy he once had, is now completely gone. Cardboard cutout of a manager.

Puma salesman.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

You mean apart from your mother being gang banged by black midgets wearing arsene wenger masks in a shoddily made porn film?....(the title of which is called Arsene Knows....that your Mum is a vapid whore)

I'd say our performance was a lot better than a lot of our performances this season in terms of passing and movement, no point talking about our defensive performance because we don't have a defence per se.

In other words, you're talking a load of shite to continue your constant wave of shit talking.

Jog on kid.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well yes, I must tell you I have done a thousand interviews.

We have people with opinions and they have not even done ten.

Opinions are not a quality. To perform on the pitch and do the talking there is a quality.

Have we done our talking today?

I will not speak about this.

I must ask you, if you write a book, will you speak about this your book?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I'm beginning to think you are Neil Ashton.

I preferred it when you agreed I was a berk.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We eased off at 1-0. :haha:

Why??? After what happened in the previous game that is scandalous.

Any match savvy he once had, is now completely gone. Cardboard cutout of a manager.

French TV don't want to know anymore so he has to get the matter-of-fact parts of the game out somewhere.

Maybe when he is over it he can get back to managing.

[Niall_Quinn]

I preferred it when you agreed I was a berk.

Obviously I didn't mean that. I just got carried away :getcoat: :run:

[Master Splinter]

I must ask you, if you write a book, will you speak about this your book?

I believe you have a small grammar niggle.

When will you be back? 2-3 weeks. After the international break. But of course also maybe Easter.

My book?

One day I will tell you the release date of it in my book.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Obviously I didn't mean that. I just got carried away :getcoat: :run:

I bet you get carried away a lot.

[Niall_Quinn]

I bet you get carried away a lot.

Not willingly.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Jog on kid.

:oldboy:

Again i am going to reiterate, comparatively compared to the other massive shit fests we've served up this season (Crystal Palace, 80 minutes of the Everton game, Leicester Spurs, Hull, Sunderland) the performance wasn't bad. It wasn't good either, but at least there wasn't endless ad nauseum sequences of pass, pass, pass in their final third...we looked to get in behind them etc.
The irony is that the worst thing we did was take the lead.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Not that I saw it, but I'd have figured the worst thing was falling behind.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:lol: He's lost it.

:rose:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Not that I saw it, but I'd have figured the worst thing was falling behind.

no that was just a consequence of scoring in the first place, given that we have no defence (certainly none willing to stop crosses coming in or prevent players getting free headers in on goal) it's arguably not something we are able to control.

[Xhaka Can’t]

no that was just a consequence of scoring in the first place, given that we have no defence (certainly none willing to stop crosses coming in or prevent players getting free headers in on goal) it's arguably not something we are able to control.

I get what you mean. I said as much when I was reading through the match thread. The only time we can be confident of holding a lead is when we score with the last kick of the game.

[Munchies]

We eased off at 1-0...

We eased off at 2-0...

We eased off at 3-0...

We eased off at 4-0...

Note to self: Tell team not to ease off.

:haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

I get what you mean. I said as much when I was reading through the match thread. The only time we can be confident of holding a lead is when we score with the last kick of the game.

Excluding two leg matches where we're playing the first leg - I assume you meant?

[rodders]

When you have the players and resources that Arsenal have, pitted against a team of unknowns and still lose it is clearly a failure in systems and tactics. Anybody could see that Chambers was totally overwhelmed .Wenger will blame pitch weather and just about everybody and everything other than himself. Sad thing is until this season a result such as this would have left me with a fit of acute depression . As it is it is now totally clear to me that we will win nothing as long as Arsene remains in charge.

Most players no longer want to join Arsenal and those that have joined probably wish they hadn't.

[Chippy]

Any half decent manager would have seen that Montero was a threat all game down the flank and was getting the best of Chambers, so would have sorted that threat out, instead of allowing it for 80 minutes until he finally helped them score.

Wenger the genius!
Before I get banned, I would like to apologise to all of the older posters on here (especially Letters) for getting back on here with a new login etc. But some of you may remember me previously as Ashburton 2006? The cracks were appearing 4/5 years ago but not many people saw it. Wenger should have gone years ago. Or at the very latest after we won the FA Cup last season and got fourth place. He will now be remembered for making us a very poor team. Cheers all. And apologies again.

[Letters]

Have we done our talking today?

I will not speak about this.
:haha:

MS :bow: (the poster, not the disease)

[Letters]

Before I get banned, I would like to apologise to all of the older posters on here (especially Letters) for getting back on here with a new login etc. But some of you may remember me previously as Ashburton 2006? The cracks were appearing 4/5 years ago but not many people saw it. Wenger should have gone years ago. Or at the very latest after we won the FA Cup last season and got fourth place. He will now be remembered for making us a very poor team. Cheers all. And apologies again.
Oh you :lol:

I don't think you've posted anything ban-worthy since you've been back so carry on :tiphat:

[Master Splinter]

The Spud is back!

You lost today :pal:.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Before I get banned, I would like to apologise to all of the older posters on here (especially Letters) for getting back on here with a new login etc. But some of you may remember me previously as Ashburton 2006? The cracks were appearing 4/5 years ago but not many people saw it. Wenger should have gone years ago. Or at the very latest after we won the FA Cup last season and got fourth place. He will now be remembered for making us a very poor team. Cheers all. And apologies again.

:haha:


'Welcome to our newest member, Tarzans Welt'

Cripps is back too :bow:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Excluding two leg matches where we're playing the first leg - I assume you meant?

Naturally. There's nothing better than getting the last minute winner, only to lose on away goals.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Before I get banned, I would like to apologise to all of the older posters on here (especially Letters) for getting back on here with a new login etc. But some of you may remember me previously as Ashburton 2006? The cracks were appearing 4/5 years ago but not many people saw it. Wenger should have gone years ago. Or at the very latest after we won the FA Cup last season and got fourth place. He will now be remembered for making us a very poor team. Cheers all. And apologies again.

Ashburton2006 isn't banned - it was temporary.

Now you have two accounts.

Thats a bannin.

[Niall_Quinn]

Naturally. There's nothing better than getting the last minute winner, only to lose on away goals.

Never let it be said that we can't find a way to lose.

[Chippy]

Oh you :lol:

I don't think you've posted anything ban-worthy since you've been back so carry on :tiphat:
Blimey! :) You are a good guy letters! :) I am still nervous though! One of the mods could inflict a ban? :(

[Chippy]

[QUOTE=Master Splinter;431386]The Spud is back!

You lost today :pal:.[/QUOTE
I have missed this place! :)

[Gooner23]

When will Alexis realise he's made a massive mistake.

All that FA cup win good will has been well and truly pissed down the toilet.

[Bumble]

we have won four league games this season Palace, Villa, Sunderland and Burnley. Sunderland are 14th and the highest placed of the lot. The lucky thing for us is that all the other teams who could rival a CL spot United, Liverpool, Spuds, Everton are playing no better and in the case of Spuds/Liverpool even worse. So wouldn't be surprised if we finished 3rd despite being utter garbage. The league is poor this year, but it does give Saints and West Ham a outside sniff if they get lucky with injuries.

[adzzzbatch]

we have won four league games this season Palace, Villa, Sunderland and Burnley. Sunderland are 14th and the highest placed of the lot. The lucky thing for us is that all the other teams who could rival a CL spot United, Liverpool, Spuds, Everton are playing no better and in the case of Spuds/Liverpool even worse. So wouldn't be surprised if we finished 3rd despite being utter garbage. The league is poor this year, but it does give Saints and West Ham a outside sniff if they get lucky with injuries.

You could add swansea to that list too, they're 5th now I think.

[Letters]

It would be brilliant if Southampton could stay up there all season. Sadly I think when push comes to shove we'll probably blunder our way above them.

[Munchies]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMxiGI7Rhlo&feature=youtu.be&a

That guy in the hat is a bloody bellend :haha:

[Gubby Allen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMxiGI7Rhlo&feature=youtu.be&a

That guy in the hat is a bloody bellend :haha:

A decent milk analogy was the best thing in there.

[1_nilto the arsenal]

If I had to travel up to Swansea and back for that spinless defeat, I would have been as pissed off as the old boy. He is a passionate fan and is venting his ongoing fustration, fair play to you mate. The young fans is another Wengerite with absolute blind faith. He backs Wenger all the time in every Arsenal tv post match interview. He is as clueless as Wenger.

[Xhaka Can’t]

A decent milk analogy was the best thing in there.

It is off!

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

I don't think you've posted anything ban-worthy since you've been back so carry on :tiphat:

Letters :bow:

Man of the people :bow:

[Letters]

The young fans is another Wengerite with absolute blind faith. He backs Wenger all the time in every Arsenal tv post match interview. He is as clueless as Wenger.
I really must stop blacking up and going to away games.

[Marc Overmars]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMxiGI7Rhlo&feature=youtu.be&a

That guy in the hat is a bloody bellend :haha:

That's pretty much a GW argument played out in person. :lol:

Claude is hilarious but it's hard to disagree with most of what he says tbh. Top fan.

[Munchies]

He's trending in the UK :haha:

https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=claude&src=typd

Piers morgan put the link out so I think that helped

[Munchies]

https://vine.co/v/OiZKgXZ5Mda

:haha: :haha:

Get him as a pundit

[Marc Overmars]

Seems like there was a lot of fighting again amongst the fans in attendance.

Wenget. :rose:

What have you done?

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMxiGI7Rhlo&feature=youtu.be&a

That guy in the hat is a bloody bellend :haha:

LOL. Puts things into perspective. I care about 1% as much as these guys and I consider myself to be a dick for giving a bunch of overpaid, hyped up brats so much credence. This is why I won't pay £100 a pop to go to games. For £100 I can afford 3 diseased slags off Essex Rd and recovering from a good bout of the clap is far more fun than watching Arsenal these days.

[Niall_Quinn]

Result aside and the way we are playing notwithstanding, I think the key point to remember is that Piers Morgan is a piece of shit.

[Munchies]

The guy with the hat has gone on a spending spree in the arsenal store, headphones, hats, tops, water bottles loll

I personally cant be bothered anymore either

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2CSfZEIcAE5u3h.jpg

[Munchies]

Also, time to put Ramsey back on the bench.

Gone back to his old self again.

[Munchies]

http://instagram.com/p/vMjtqXks13/

:haha:

Ramsey wtf are you passing to?

[fakeyank]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMxiGI7Rhlo&feature=youtu.be&a

That guy in the hat is a bloody bellend :haha:

The black dude had no valid points for sticking up for Wenger. He is probably sponsored by Arsene to go to games looking like the Armoury..

[Xhaka Can’t]

The black dude had no valid points for sticking up for Wenger. He is probably sponsored by Arsene to go to games looking like the Armoury..
If anything happens to Club shop guy, there's an opening for fakeyank.

[Letters]

Seems like there was a lot of fighting again amongst the fans in attendance.

Wenget. :rose:

What have you done?
Be fair. He's made sure prices are raised at the Emirates so that only polite middle class people can go along, it's not his fault is other clubs don't do the same and working class street urchins can afford to go to away games.

[adzzzbatch]

http://arseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/caught_swansea.jpg

Borrowed from Arseblog, but that's how out of position our players were to gift swansea the equaliser.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Literally just found the result out. Good old arse....doing their best to cattle truck my weekend. I see we defended brilliantly again.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The black dude had no valid points for sticking up for Wenger. He is probably sponsored by Arsene to go to games looking like the Armoury..

That's beyond sticking up for Wenger, he literally was the embodiment of see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.
I'm not for sacking Wenger mid season (though results like yesterday keep coming and I'm likely to change my opinion on that) but that guy was ridiculous. Every game it seems to happen literally no presence in the middle of the park so the opposition has ridiculous space and then there is literally no attempt to stop crosses or challenge someone aerially in the box.
As soon as we took the lead Oxlade chamberlain should have either been instructed to sit back and protect Chambers or replaced
He is not just not pro active he's so slow to react as well (he deserved a punch in the balls for bringing Sanogo on) and at this moment in time him staying till 2017 would be totally unacceptable

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Literally just found the result out. Good old arse....doing their best to cattle truck my weekend. I see we defended brilliantly again.

I wish I'd only just found out, blissful ignorance on Sunday

[Power n Glory]

Is the result really that upsetting? I'm at the stage where this shit is comical. Seen it far too many times to have a meltdown. Fuck em!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Is the result really that upsetting? I'm at the stage where this shit is comical. Seen it far too many times to have a meltdown. Fuck em!

Depends how you differentiate Surprising and Upsetting?

Is it surprising? It's only Surprising that we haven't lost more games

Upsetting? Well yes I suppose when you hold onto a lead for ten minutes and you delude yourself that maybe just maybe that the Circus defending won't be punished.

But never mind.....like the last few years we won't beat any of the big clubs but we will ride on the bloated corpses of Liverpool and United into fourth.

[selassie]

Is the result really that upsetting? I'm at the stage where this shit is comical. Seen it far too many times to have a meltdown. Fuck em!

Feel the same way, I literally have no motivation to watch Arsenal these days, I actually dread it, it's like doing a job you hate.

I may even swerve this Saturday's game against United, I have zero confidence in this team and can't be doing with the emotions, would rather invest my time in something else!

[Munchies]

http://arseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/caught_swansea.jpg

Borrowed from Arseblog, but that's how out of position our players were to gift swansea the equaliser.

Joke of a manager results in that

[Seymour Butts]

Not surprised in the slightest.

Poor management in summer by not addressing the areas that needed addressing the most has cost us massively this season. Have been crying out for a decent DCM and CB for longer than I care to remember. No point buying Sanchez when we have the likes of Flamini and Arteta at DCM and Monreal at CB. People can point the finger at the players all they like and to a certain extent they have a reasonable amount of responsibility for the implosions. However, the failure to clearly address the weaknesses that could turn us from a decent team into one capable of challenging for honours is bad enough but to actually sell an experienced CB and not to replace him adequately is quite another.

Everyone and their dog can see where we are lacking - why is it that Wenger can not? Why does he continue to play Monreal at CB and not Chambers? At the very least he should have switched Monreal for Chambers and played Monreal at RB. Granted its an unfamiliar position but surely he is going to be more comfortable at FB than at CB even if it isn't on his natural side? Instead he puts chambes up against a lightening quick winger and he got exposed. He also puts Monreal up against one the most powerful strike forces in the country - Gomis and Bony are beasts in terms of raw power! Not only that he hung Chambers and Monreal out to dry by not addressing the clear disadvantages they were up against for the duration of that game. Its not Monreal or Chambers fault - its Wengers.

Cazorla - has been shit all season and still Wenger plays him. Substitutes again made too late to effect the game!

I am not one of the Wenger out brigade but fuk me enough is enough - not another club in the land would put up with this level of mismanagement.

[BOBN]

Also, time to put Ramsey back on the bench.

Gone back to his old self again.
The boys finished, his brain doesnt work. Went bombing on past Welbeck after 2 minutes yesterday for no reason. He doesnt get midfield.

And before Niall Quinn starts crying...

Wilshere - Shyt, most overrated "talent" ive ever known at this club
Cazorla - Fat and shyt. So fooking short and useless. Sports are not for him.
Flamini - Worst midfielder under Wengers reign
Arteta - Finished
Ox - Waste of money

Wish we could swap midfields with Southampton tbh. Not because of "PASSION" and all that nonsense, they are simply better players. Defence too while were at it.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Feel the same way, I literally have no motivation to watch Arsenal these days, I actually dread it, it's like doing a job you hate.

I may even swerve this Saturday's game against United, I have zero confidence in this team and can't be doing with the emotions, would rather invest my time in something else!

You have time to prepare, internationals this Saturday. So we'll just see all our players get smashed to pieces instead.

[1_nilto the arsenal]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2CSfZEIcAE5u3h.jpg

A much deserved and fitting headline for 'The Specialist in Failure'

[selassie]

You have time to prepare, internationals this Saturday. So we'll just see all our players get smashed to pieces instead.

Of course. It's worrying that I look forward to England games more than Arsenal games these days!

[Globalgunner]

What is there to say that hasn't been said before. This is a man who so infinitely believes in his methods that even when they don't work time and tine again he doesn't waver and continues to repeat ad infinitum. just so that when it perchance works in in 1000 times he can turn round and say "Aha"!. You can see that he simply plays the boys who never raise a word at the club, plays them over and over and again until they break down. Anyone who questions what we can all see isn't working gets ostracised. The man is a delusionist with a less than tentative grasp on reality. Bottom line is Wenger wont get tired. Question is when will we the fans tire of this debacle. Forget the tourists waiting in line to fill the stadium seats, we need the fans groups to come on side and organise to bring this charade to end

[Xhaka Can’t]

The season ticket base is so high that it doesn't take much additional sales to make the stadium look relatively full. And it isn't

[Letters]

Forget the tourists waiting in line to fill the stadium seats, we need the fans groups to come on side and organise to bring this charade to end
While the money keeps rolling in there is no incentive for the board to change anything.
Only way to bring about change is to hit 'em where it hurts. For those with season tickets it's too late for that of course, they've paid up for the season.
And there are so many of those it's difficult to do anything this season.
Just don't renew though. Those without season tickets, stop going. Buy fake orange shirts rather than the real ones (or don't buy one at all).

[Niall_Quinn]

What is there to say that hasn't been said before. This is a man who so infinitely believes in his methods that even when they don't work time and tine again he doesn't waver and continues to repeat ad infinitum. just so that when it perchance works in in 1000 times he can turn round and say "Aha"!. You can see that he simply plays the boys who never raise a word at the club, plays them over and over and again until they break down. Anyone who questions what we can all see isn't working gets ostracised. The man is a delusionist with a less than tentative grasp on reality. Bottom line is Wenger wont get tired. Question is when will we the fans tire of this debacle. Forget the tourists waiting in line to fill the stadium seats, we need the fans groups to come on side and organise to bring this charade to end

What charade? You're going to need to be a lot more specific. Fans aren't going to organise behind claims Wenger is a "delusionist". Specifics will be required. You already know he brushes off any questioning of his tactics by stating he's managed a thousand more games than anyone else. He'll slap a guy like Merson around, somebody who has a voice. It's unlikely he'll pay a blind bit of notice to a few fans calling him names. I haven't yet seen a reasoned argument that sets out the major failings that can be pinned on Wenger, on a match by match, formation by formation, tactics by tactics, player by player, substitution by substitution, basis. That's how you pin him down. Specifics. A clear demonstration of errors and repeated errors. A history of the failings in the transfer market - with details. An analysis of where other clubs and managers are succeeding where Wenger has failed. Calling him names, waving banners, shouting and stamping, that's all a waste of effort.

[Globalgunner]

NQ. Now you have me confused. Dunno if you're messing with, me or asking a real question? Are you happy with what you are seeing on the pitch or not?.Given our club resources are we doing as best as we can or far, far less?. A charade is what we have. A scam operation with sporting failure marketed as guarded success

[Power n Glory]

You already know he brushes off any questioning of his tactics by stating he's managed a thousand more games than anyone else. He'll slap a guy like Merson around, somebody who has a voice.

A thousand games in charge and the chump gets tactically out done by a guy that’s only managed 31 games. :doh: I can only wish someone had the wit and balls to throw that fact out to him if he tries to pull that smug ‘experience’ card again.

I think he’d pay attention to fan protest. Also, people need to stop going to games. A drop in attendance, media backlash and fan backlash is way too much for anyone to ignore.

[Niall_Quinn]

NQ. Now you have me confused. Dunno if you're messing with, me or asking a real question? Are you happy with what you are seeing on the pitch or not?.Given our club resources are we doing as best as we can or far, far less?. A charade is what we have. A scam operation with sporting failure marketed as guarded success

Very serious. The tactics, preparation, in-game management, substitutions, post game analysis, player rotation, fitness and injuries, transfer dealings, are all sub-standard and the manager isn't close to making the most of the players and resources at his disposal. I'm pretty sure we all agree on that much by this stage.

But take the Merson incident. Merson getting on TV and shouting, "clueless, clueless", isn't going to do a damn thing except put Wenger on the defensive and give him an easy out where he can claim he works day to day with the team, he's got all the experience, he knows what he's doing and nobody else is qualified to judge him. And that's what exactly what happened. Why didn't Merson go into the specifics? Name names, give examples of the "clueless" tactics over time. So far the media has settled on a couple of instances of our midfield pushed up and leaving the defence exposed when we were in a winning position. That's a start. But a couple of instances isn't going to shift Wenger out of his trench. Fans who really want to highlight the problems need to build a proper case, with proper and extensive evidence. Put that in front of him, a case spanning several seasons and highlighting the same mistakes and misjudgements happening time and time again (as is claimed) and that's not so easy to brush aside. If it's true that Wenger is clueless and he's lot the plot tactically then it needs to be spelled out, it's no good just calling him names.

Get that Claude bloke to do it. What's the use of him ranting on on Arsenal TV? Either he wants to be a Z-list celeb or he wants to do something constructive to get his points across and to try to encourage real change. Wenger is here until 2017 as things stand. The board is certainly not going to intervene and make changes. They have stated this as clearly as it is possible to state it. We're good enough to grab 4th every season and maybe go on a cup run. The money is pouring in. One of the big objections about money not being spent in the transfer windows has been addressed. If anything, Wenger is more secure than ever. It's going to take some serious work conducted by serious fans to demonstrate the key problems that most perceive as holding the club back. Boycotts are useless when there's a long queue waiting to snap up tickets. Banners and shouting and all that crap just make us look stupid in the eyes of fans who would love their club to be 4th or on the CL or winning a cup. fans slagging Wenger on the Internet has no effect at all. The media are lazy bastards who will work with the theme of the day but will never dig deep.

If the fans really want to shift Wenger or force his hand then they need to do some work. That's my point. Don't give him an easy out like Merson just did. Lay down a case that the media will seize upon as their own (an easy win for the lazy bastards) and that other fans can get behind and something Wenger can't just brush under the carpet. That's the only way you'll see him walk before 2017.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

NQ. Now you have me confused. Dunno if you're messing with, me or asking a real question? Are you happy with what you are seeing on the pitch or not?.Given our club resources are we doing as best as we can or far, far less?. A charade is what we have. A scam operation with sporting failure marketed as guarded success

I think the point is that these street protests tend not to achieve anything because you can be easily dismissed as ungrateful malcontents

The fact remains there isn't a unified voice, almost everyone on this board thinks Wenger isn't the man to take us forward and the majority of those want him sacked. I'm not convinced this represents the majority of those who go to games week in week out, for example we are not seeing the kind of visceral reaction that Newcastle fans showed against Pardew.

I don't believe the board can be convinced by the fans to sack Wenger, though I do believe it could convince Wenger to walk. He was taken aback by the fan reaction to Aston Villa defeat last season, and I think a point could be reached where he decides its not worth his while anymore.

[Seymour Butts]

Spot on by Carragher I am afraid to say.......................



“It’s the same things with Arsenal, it’s nothing new,” he told Sky Sports. “It’s the way they play, the way they understand the game, what’s coming from the sidelines and how they allow themselves to get in these situations week after week, season after season.

“They were winning 1-0 but for the equalising goal they were all pushing forward and got caught on the counter-attack again.

“Then the winning goal is down to a weakness – not being physically strong enough when the cross comes in. These are problems that anyone can identify.”

Carragher pointed out Jefferson Montero clearly had the beating of right-back Calum Chambers from early on in the match, yet Wenger refused to act – either by subbing his defender or altering his tactics – and Arsenal paid the price, with the Ecuadorian crossing for Gomis’ winner.

The Sky Sports expert put Wenger’s reluctance to alter his plans down to the Frenchman’s confidence in Arsenal’s attacking ability but also chastised Chambers’ team-mates for not realising the problems he was having with the winger and acting to address the issue.

“Yesterday at Anfield, Jose Mourinho saw Raheem Sterling as a danger for Chelsea and he had Ramires on that side to try and stop him,” said Carragher, referring to the Blues’ 2-1 win over Liverpool.

“I thought Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain had a good game in terms of going forward for Arsenal but at half-time it was clear Chambers is having one of those days where Montero had got the better of him.

“I’ve been there as a defender and you need help. You can change it; Arsenal had Hector Bellerin on the bench, who is inexperienced, but is supposed to be one of the quickest players at the club. Could he have made a difference with his pace? Or tell Oxlade-Chamberlain, ‘stand in front of Chambers, forget going forward because we need protection. We need to stop this'.

“But Arsene Wenger has so much belief in his team and the way they play, he says ‘we’ll go forward, play our own game, do not worry about the opposition’. But it’s proving that you have to think about the opposition.

“We say it every year about Arsenal, in big games – not normally these sort of games – they go and play their normal game away from home and get batted 3-0 or 4-0. But the problem was obvious and something needed to be changed at half-time – but nothing changed. And they’ve ended up losing the game because of it.

“You talk about leaders in football, though, and that’s a perfect example. After a ten minute spell in the game, when your full back is up against it, [centre-back] Per Mertesacker should say to Oxlade-Chamberlain, ‘stand there, do not move for 15-20 minutes, until we kill this threat’.

“You never see that with Arsenal. You can’t always play exactly the same way. Games change. Sometimes you’re up, sometimes you’re behind. You can’t keep on playing the same way.”

[Özim]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMxiGI7Rhlo&feature=youtu.be&a

That guy in the hat is a bloody bellend :haha:

That guy must be AW's little helper, what a joker. :lol:

[Özim]

We're only a point off 4th, so our season's objectives are very much in sight, so I don't think anyone at the club is going to be too worried by this defeat. As one of the fans said, no other manager would have got 4th place so often with such a small budget, I guess we should be grateful for 4th place, after all this seems to be the holy grail for most clubs.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Sadly, it is the holy grail for most clubs. It certainly seems to be for us.

As long as we keep achieving it and the money keeps rolling in, the Board are under no pressure at all to make the one change we desperately need.

[the notwist]

NQ - if you want specifics I'll start with this match. We start the game with an inexperienced centre-back playing right back, and immediately his lack of pace is a problem. Chambers is a fine prospect at CB, but plainly lacks the pace needed for a full-back. We have a reserve left-back as a CB. Monreal is willing, but the poor guy isn't up to dealing with a big centre forward.

Why are we in this position? Because Wenger starts the season with 15 players who can fill the 6 midfield/attacking positons, and a mere 5 players (6 if you count Monreal) who can play back four. One bad injury (Debuchy) would be a disaster. Lose a second (Kos) and it's a farce. What are Gibbs' chances of staying fit to the Xmas transfer window? How soon before Merts is totally knackered?

At this rate Wenger and Bould will be getting their boots ready to be paired at CB.

The stupidity of this season is that we have some serious gas back in the team and could start scoring for fun. I said "could" btw. But WHAT IS THE POINT if the manager fucks up the balance of his squad so badly?

Do I get to first base, NQ?

[Power n Glory]

Very serious. The tactics, preparation, in-game management, substitutions, post game analysis, player rotation, fitness and injuries, transfer dealings, are all sub-standard and the manager isn't close to making the most of the players and resources at his disposal. I'm pretty sure we all agree on that much by this stage.

But take the Merson incident. Merson getting on TV and shouting, "clueless, clueless", isn't going to do a damn thing except put Wenger on the defensive and give him an easy out where he can claim he works day to day with the team, he's got all the experience, he knows what he's doing and nobody else is qualified to judge him. And that's what exactly what happened. Why didn't Merson go into the specifics? Name names, give examples of the "clueless" tactics over time. So far the media has settled on a couple of instances of our midfield pushed up and leaving the defence exposed when we were in a winning position. That's a start. But a couple of instances isn't going to shift Wenger out of his trench. Fans who really want to highlight the problems need to build a proper case, with proper and extensive evidence. Put that in front of him, a case spanning several seasons and highlighting the same mistakes and misjudgements happening time and time again (as is claimed) and that's not so easy to brush aside. If it's true that Wenger is clueless and he's lot the plot tactically then it needs to be spelled out, it's no good just calling him names.

Get that Claude bloke to do it. What's the use of him ranting on on Arsenal TV? Either he wants to be a Z-list celeb or he wants to do something constructive to get his points across and to try to encourage real change. Wenger is here until 2017 as things stand. The board is certainly not going to intervene and make changes. They have stated this as clearly as it is possible to state it. We're good enough to grab 4th every season and maybe go on a cup run. The money is pouring in. One of the big objections about money not being spent in the transfer windows has been addressed. If anything, Wenger is more secure than ever. It's going to take some serious work conducted by serious fans to demonstrate the key problems that most perceive as holding the club back. Boycotts are useless when there's a long queue waiting to snap up tickets. Banners and shouting and all that crap just make us look stupid in the eyes of fans who would love their club to be 4th or on the CL or winning a cup. fans slagging Wenger on the Internet has no effect at all. The media are lazy bastards who will work with the theme of the day but will never dig deep.

If the fans really want to shift Wenger or force his hand then they need to do some work. That's my point. Don't give him an easy out like Merson just did. Lay down a case that the media will seize upon as their own (an easy win for the lazy bastards) and that other fans can get behind and something Wenger can't just brush under the carpet. That's the only way you'll see him walk before 2017.

To be fair to Merson, the 'tactically clueless' jab was aimed at the players. He avoided out right attacking Wenger but I think the gloves will come off if Wenger continues to throw such dismissive shots at his critics. It will snowball and pundits will start taking a closer look at all of his decisions. I've already read a few this morning. The zero experience argument is no defence and that will only put the pundits back up because it's so dismissive. For years, they've avoided taking aim at Wenger and have just accepted the 'lack of money' argument. In a way, he's been shielded from serious criticism for years. If results like yesterday continue we'll start to see a different approach. It already started with that Jacqui Oatley post game reaction. A lot of people in the press didn't like his reaction and I'm sure they'll poke at him some more.

But the press doing what they usually do won't change anything unless fans actually do something. Protests, banners, boycotts...it's something at least and he'll surely get the message that he needs to change things or move on.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

To be fair to Merson, the 'tactically clueless' jab was aimed at the players. He avoided out right attacking Wenger but I think the gloves will come off if Wenger continues to throw such dismissive shots at his critics. It will snowball and pundits will start taking a closer look at all of his decisions. I've already read a few this morning. The zero experience argument is no defence and that will only put the pundits back up because it's so dismissive. For years, they've avoided taking aim at Wenger and have just accepted the 'lack of money' argument. In a way, he's been shielded from serious criticism for years. If results like yesterday continue we'll start to see a different approach. It already started with that Jacqui Oatley post game reaction. A lot of people in the press didn't like his reaction and I'm sure they'll poke at him some more.

But the press doing what they usually do won't change anything unless fans actually do something. Protests, banners, boycotts...it's something at least and he'll surely get the message that he needs to change things or move on.

To be fair if I was a manager I'd be dismissive of ex professionals opinions as well, do I think Merson is right? Of course but at the same time this is a guy who has boasted about playing a drinking game with Gazza involving wine and sleeping tablets so he's quite easy for Wenger to dismiss.

The criticism needs to be coming internally, and it kind of makes an irony of the statements of support the board give him. If they were supportive of him, they'd be interfering more in the football aspects of the club. This nonsense that idiots like Stewart Robson perpetuates of Wenger being a dictator is facile because it goes against what anyone will tell you about Wenger, he is a man who hates confrontation and invariably is only in a position of unchecked and unquestioned authority because no one above him in the hierarchy is questioning him.
It's incredibly easy to think your doing well when nobody tells you otherwise
This is no defence of Wenger by the way, he's intelligent enough and being paid enough to identify what's wrong without being told. But the fact is his stubborn intransigence is not being questioned by those he might listen to

[Munchies]

8 players were all out of place before they got their freekick..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2FcZYaCcAEADqh.jpg

[rodders]

On Paper the best squad for years, results wise a right ruddy hames. Wenger tactically in the dark ages.

[Marc Overmars]

On Paper the best squad for years, results wise a right ruddy hames. Wenger tactically in the dark ages.

Even in the dark ages there was probably some sort of flexible or alternative strategy. What we're seeing is a complete reluctance towards in-game management, which is surely the very fabric of what being a manger is about. I'm not going to advocate giving the job to any flavour of the month, but it's not going to take a manager with a glittering CV to improve us. There are plenty of savvy and hungry managers who could make a difference on what we're currently seeing.

[1_nilto the arsenal]

On Saturday the under 15's i coach were playing. Thier left winger was having a torrid time against my right back, as he was faster and stronger. 10 mins later thier coach moved his left winger out on the right hand side, as my left back was not as fast or stronger. 2 mins later I switched my right back to play left back and the left back on the right. We won the game 2-0. Simples. I dont have to be Ferguson to see how to protect my player from a much a better player. Then how does an idiot like Wenger not see that Chambers was getting the runa rounds from Montero all game long. £8 million a year, do me a favour.

[Ollie the Optimist]

i think i preferred it when we didn't spend money on players like ozil, sanchez, debuchy etc. At least then it was understandable why we were so shit.

Now we have those players and we are still shit.

Wenger has to go

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Hmm there was no like for like solution on the bench

However what I'd have done is take Cazorla off at 1-0, replacing him with Wilshere. Then moved Ramsey to the right hand side of midfield instruct him not to bomb forward and protect his full back, moved Ox to the centre to play with Flamini and Wilshere. And get them to stay behind the centre circle unless there is a tangible break on.

[Letters]

i think i preferred it when we didn't spend money on players like ozil, sanchez, debuchy etc. At least then it was understandable why we were so shit.

Now we have those players and we are still shit.

Wenger has to go

Ollie :rose:

[Munchies]

i think i preferred it when we didn't spend money on players like ozil, sanchez, debuchy etc. At least then it was understandable why we were so shit.

Now we have those players and we are still shit.

Wenger has to go

:bow:

[selassie]

Hmm there was no like for like solution on the bench

However what I'd have done is take Cazorla off at 1-0, replacing him with Wilshere. Then moved Ramsey to the right hand side of midfield instruct him not to bomb forward and protect his full back, moved Ox to the centre to play with Flamini and Wilshere. And get them to stay behind the centre circle unless there is a tangible break on.

No like for like solution because Wenger has built an inbalanced squad.

Square pegs and round holes...he's made a right mess of the squad and he needs to fix it quick. God knows where we go from here...

[Power n Glory]

To be fair if I was a manager I'd be dismissive of ex professionals opinions as well, do I think Merson is right? Of course but at the same time this is a guy who has boasted about playing a drinking game with Gazza involving wine and sleeping tablets so he's quite easy for Wenger to dismiss.

The criticism needs to be coming internally, and it kind of makes an irony of the statements of support the board give him. If they were supportive of him, they'd be interfering more in the football aspects of the club. This nonsense that idiots like Stewart Robson perpetuates of Wenger being a dictator is facile because it goes against what anyone will tell you about Wenger, he is a man who hates confrontation and invariably is only in a position of unchecked and unquestioned authority because no one above him in the hierarchy is questioning him.
It's incredibly easy to think your doing well when nobody tells you otherwise
This is no defence of Wenger by the way, he's intelligent enough and being paid enough to identify what's wrong without being told. But the fact is his stubborn intransigence is not being questioned by those he might listen to

Yes, you can be dismissive of ex-players if you know what you’re doing. Merson’s life outside of football shouldn’t dismiss what he’s said about the squad because even with the wild lifestyle those guys had they still had enough brain cells to know when and how to protect a lead and lock up shop. How to stay organised and take instructions. If an ‘imbecile’ like Merson can see what’s going wrong on the pitch, what’s the current crops excuse? Wenger is dismissive regardless of whose breaking the news to him and that’s why he’s in this mess. Internal voices…..is he listening to Steve Bould? It doesn’t look like Bould’s appointment has made the change we’d all hoped to see.

As for Wenger not being a dictator…why is that farfetched? We’ve seen his petulant and tetchy side with the press, we’ve seen how aggressive he can be with that recent Mourinho touchline incident, he has a way of completely ostracising players that are either outspoken or he just doesn’t rate…you don’t have to be a snarling beast to be a dictator.

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2ElaqMIMAAb70e.jpg


Arsenal are doing worse now than in 2011-12 when #afc had Gervinho & Santos on the left. Humiliating.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Yes, you can be dismissive of ex-players if you know what you’re doing. Merson’s life outside of football shouldn’t dismiss what he’s said about the squad because even with the wild lifestyle those guys had they still had enough brain cells to know when and how to protect a lead and lock up shop. How to stay organised and take instructions. If an ‘imbecile’ like Merson can see what’s going wrong on the pitch, what’s the current crops excuse? Wenger is dismissive regardless of whose breaking the news to him and that’s why he’s in this mess. Internal voices…..is he listening to Steve Bould? It doesn’t look like Bould’s appointment has made the change we’d all hoped to see.

As for Wenger not being a dictator…why is that farfetched? We’ve seen his petulant and tetchy side with the press, we’ve seen how aggressive he can be with that recent Mourinho touchline incident, he has a way of completely ostracising players that are either outspoken or he just doesn’t rate…you don’t have to be a snarling beast to be a dictator.

Every manager gets petulant and touchy with the press, I've heard nothing about him ostracising players for being outspoken. Players like Podolski are on the sidelines because he doesn't rate them....picking Sanogo over him shows poor judgement nothing else.

And even if Wenger was a dictator it doesn't excuse the board or his staff for blindly following him. My point is if Wenger deserves to go he should be followed out the door by a lot of people at the club. If one man is responsible for all our troubles than the people backing him are just as culpable

Bould in my view is the only man who has stood up to Wenger but ultimately he is subordinate to the manager, and this is why the board are responsible. That's why I don't see things as getting better when Wenger goes because any new manager will be under no pressure to achieve big success and probably will end up just as entrenched as l'ouisseau. To see real change you need not only Wenger gone, but the Kroenke family (brought about by the strangely lionised David Dein) and Blue Chips Keswick too (oh and Jabba the Hut whilst we are at it).
This isn't going to happen, our club belongs to the robber baron who are happy to keep Ronald Reagan at the reigns.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No like for like solution because Wenger has built an inbalanced squad.

Square pegs and round holes...he's made a right mess of the squad and he needs to fix it quick. God knows where we go from here...

Oh I agree, I was simply stating there was no like for like substitution as a point of fact. Plus the rest of my post indicates an alternative strategy we in my view should have undertaken

[Power n Glory]

Every manager gets petulant and touchy with the press, I've heard nothing about him ostracising players for being outspoken. Players like Podolski are on the sidelines because he doesn't rate them....picking Sanogo over him shows poor judgement nothing else.

And even if Wenger was a dictator it doesn't excuse the board or his staff for blindly following him. My point is if Wenger deserves to go he should be followed out the door by a lot of people at the club. If one man is responsible for all our troubles than the people backing him are just as culpable

Rosicky and Campbell won't see any game time after complaining in public about their lack of playing time. Walcott benched for not signing a new deal and he's not the first to receive that sort of treatment. It was the same for Lauren, Wiltord and Edu years back. He can be petty.

The likelihood of Ivan and Stan following Wenger out the door when gone is wishful thinking.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Rosicky has gone as a player, it's clutching at straws to believe he could have any kind of impact for us

Dropping contract rebels is one of the few things I applaud Wenger for, why should you give game time to someone not committed to the club (Wiltord, Edu and Lauren not big misses for us) and Walcott signed a new contract.

It's also wishful thinking to suggest things will get better when Wenger goes, another demagogue will be given far too much authority.
Id like to think I'm wrong and that Gazidis will reign the next man in but I'm not going to hold my breath

[Power n Glory]

Why not when he was able to make an impact last season? Have you seen the current midfield and how they're playing?

As for the contract situation, it's called cutting your nose to spite your face. We create the stand off situation with the low wages offer.

Also, whether these guys make an impact or not is a side issue, we're talking about Wenger being a 'dictator' and controlling. He has two sides to him and I don't think there is anyone in the club that can talk any sense into him because he's so stubborn. That's the issue. As a sportsman, he should know he's doing a poor job but he's so delusional, he shifts the standards of success to suit his own accomplishments. The 4th place trophy is an example.

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger's successor will not be given unequivocal control. He is the last of a dying breed of manager.

The new manager will need to deliver on the pitch immediately, he won't have sentiment to protect him like Wenger does.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Why not when he was able to make an impact last season? Have you seen the current midfield and how they're playing?

As for the contract situation, it's called cutting your nose to spite your face. We create the stand off situation with the low wages offer.

Also, whether these guys make an impact or not is a side issue, we're talking about Wenger being a 'dictator' and controlling. He has two sides to him and I don't think there is anyone in the club that can talk any sense into him because he's so stubborn. That's the issue. As a sportsman, he should know he's doing a poor job but he's so delusional, he shifts the standards of success to suit his own accomplishments. The 4th place trophy is an example.

The only evidence you have of Wenger being a dictator are things every other manager in the game does, where my example of the board being as culpable as Wenger for Wenger was clearly evidenced by Chips Keswick. There is no internal criticism, they either back him or turn the other way and whistle nonchalantly.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Wenger's successor will not be given unequivocal control. He is the last of a dying breed of manager.

The new manager will need to deliver on the pitch immediately, he won't have sentiment to protect him like Wenger does.

I don't know what makes you believe there is suddenly going to be a hands on approach.

Or even that they are capable of appointing a successor without either consulting Wenger or begging him to stay until 2020

[Marc Overmars]

I don't know what makes you believe there is suddenly going to be a hands on approach.

Or even that they are capable of appointing a successor without either consulting Wenger or begging him to stay until 2020

Wenger is entwined into the fabric of the club. He has worked himself into this position, he's a managerial anomaly. No other coach in the world has a reign over the non-coaching aspect of a club like he does. He hired his own CEO FFS.

I don't believe the new guy is going to be given additional responsibilities, it doesn't make any business sense, why would they entrust someone unproven in those areas? I also doubt coaches these days are keen for that level of control - I read the other day Pep Guardiola has as many as 20 people to delegate with for various matters on and off the pitch, that's supposedly the best manager in the world. This is the type of structure you find at most clubs now, the game has moved on.

I don't mind if Wenger is consulted on his successor, I just want there to be a clear distinction between board and manager. Gazidis and the rest of the board live in the shadows, maybe when Wenger is gone they will start to earn their money because they'd do well to find someone like Wenger again, and if they do, then god help us all.

[Power n Glory]

The only evidence you have of Wenger being a dictator are things every other manager in the game does, where my example of the board being as culpable as Wenger for Wenger was clearly evidenced by Chips Keswick. There is no internal criticism, they either back him or turn the other way and whistle nonchalantly.

A dictator gives the wrong impression. He’s a control freak and there is enough evidence of that.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/sep/23/arsene-wenger-arsenal-training

This is worth a read.

Gilberto Silva, the Brazilian who played for Arsenal as a defensive midfielder between 2002 and 2008, agrees. "The suggestion of outside help to coach players is made by people who don't know what happens at the club," he says. "Arsène never delegated things totally to his assistants. He was always watching things pitch-side, more than often coming in to talk about things to change. He never tried to reinvent the wheel or kept yapping at the players, because footballers don't like to be bossed around."


Despite Arsenal's now-perennially leaky defence Winterburn states that Wenger's philosophy is not to drill his back four separately. "No. Arsène Wenger's training is all about possession of the football, movement of the football and support of one another. Then he really expects you to be able, when you lose the ball, to organise yourself and dictate to players around you in what areas you want the opposition to go," he says.

This is where things get tricky. We have no real football people on the Board so I don’t know exactly what they can tell Wenger to do to improve results. If he’s stubborn and dismissive on ex players, I can’t imagine him taking to heart any suggestions from our men in suits upstairs. Also, do you really want a situation like what’s happened over at Spurs, Liverpool, Newcastle and even Chelsea? Interference from upstairs can be counterproductive. It should be the Boards job to support the manager with the resources he needs and then the manager takes it from there.

[rodders]

Step back with dignity accept your time is over , you gave us great times but your time has past. A new regime is the only answer.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

A dictator gives the wrong impression. He’s a control freak and there is enough evidence of that.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/sep/23/arsene-wenger-arsenal-training

This is worth a read.



This is where things get tricky. We have no real football people on the Board so I don’t know exactly what they can tell Wenger to do to improve results. If he’s stubborn and dismissive on ex players, I can’t imagine him taking to heart any suggestions from our men in suits upstairs. Also, do you really want a situation like what’s happened over at Spurs, Liverpool, Newcastle and even Chelsea? Interference from upstairs can be counterproductive. It should be the Boards job to support the manager with the resources he needs and then the manager takes it from there.

You don't need to be knowledgable at football to know that a man shouldn't be responsible for hiring his own boss.
He has the power and authority because it was blindly given to him

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Step back with dignity accept your time is over , you gave us great times but your time has past. A new regime is the only answer.

Could you record yourself saying that like you're Captain Black from Captain Scarlet and the mysterons.

But yeah that sums it up, in an ideal World Wenger would have his "soapy tit wank" farewell end of the season after once again getting us top four.
And a new guy comes in who heads up a large coaching team and who himself is directly answerable to Ivan Gazidis

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'd like to see Bould as manager surrounded by a team including people like Bergkamp and Keown

People that love the club

[Globalgunner]

Rosicky has gone as a player, it's clutching at straws to believe he could have any kind of impact for us

Dropping contract rebels is one of the few things I applaud Wenger for, why should you give game time to someone not committed to the club (Wiltord, Edu and Lauren not big misses for us) and Walcott signed a new contract.

It's also wishful thinking to suggest things will get better when Wenger goes, another demagogue will be given far too much authority.
Id like to think I'm wrong and that Gazidis will reign the next man in but I'm not going to hold my breath
So you`re betting that the next man will be as idiosyncratic, blind to reality and dogma driven as Wenger.......You've got it bad my friend. There aren't many in football like Wenger. He likely wasn't like that when he arrived here. With Dein gone his ego filled the vacuum and his intellect shrunk in reverse proportion. The next manager will be selected from the pool of sane human beings i am sure. Unless wenger is given a say in who he is . Then of course history can repeat itself

[Power n Glory]

You don't need to be knowledgable at football to know that a man shouldn't be responsible for hiring his own boss.
He has the power and authority because it was blindly given to him

Blindly given by a Board that are now gone and an arrangement Ivan, Stan and Chip have inherited.

But why shouldn't Wenger be responsible for hiring his own boss? Why not?

[Power n Glory]

You don't need to be knowledgable at football to know that a man shouldn't be responsible for hiring his own boss.
He has the power and authority because it was blindly given to him

Also, you have't made a comment on the coaching set up and delegation. What does that tell you about Wenger?

[fakeyank]

You know whats disappointing? The fact that we were top of the table last year till Feb/March and a lot of people were cutting Wenger slack for not investing in the January window. The reason? We will do it next season and invest in the summer. Well this is next season and guess where we are at? Worse off by miles!

What a waste of an opportunity! :ilt:

[rodders]

Could you record yourself saying that like you're Captain Black from Captain Scarlet and the mysterons.

But yeah that sums it up, in an ideal World Wenger would have his "soapy tit wank" farewell end of the season after once again getting us top four.
And a new guy comes in who heads up a large coaching team and who himself is directly answerable to Ivan Gazidis

Unfortunately the end of season will be too late. Top four finish increasingly unlikely

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Also, you have't made a comment on the coaching set up and delegation. What does that tell you about Wenger?

It tells me that no-one has the presence of mind to stand up to him, do you think Wenger would walk if Gazidis or Keswick said you need to delegate more Arsene....would he fuck?

The likelihood is that Sanchez was bought with Wenger having no say in the transfer negotiation as he was in Brazil at the time? Wenger just accepted it.

I do agree with you when you say he's a control freak, but I also don't believe he's the type of person to cause a conflict if some things were taken from his control.

[Power n Glory]

You know whats disappointing? The fact that we were top of the table last year till Feb/March and a lot of people were cutting Wenger slack for not investing in the January window. The reason? We will do it next season and invest in the summer. Well this is next season and guess where we are at? Worse off by miles!

What a waste of an opportunity! :ilt:

I could see this happening a mile off. Our opportunity for the title was last season but we didn't take it. There was no way Wenger would be able to
hang with a Mourinho team after he's had a year to iron out that Chelsea squads problems. Not only that, he handed another rival the title with foolish transfer dealings. Cesc shouldn't be at Chelsea.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Unfortunately the end of season will be too late. Top four finish increasingly unlikely

Man United and Liverpool are in an even worse state than we are

And ill make a pledge here and now, I will give £50 to charity if we don't finish in the top four.

And I will document this and post it on the site to show I've done this

[rodders]

Man United and Liverpool are in an even worse state than we are

And ill make a pledge here and now, I will give £50 to charity if we don't finish in the top four.

And I will document this and post it on the site to show I've done this

Good for you and I for one hope that you are right. My problem is that others see where they are going wrong but seemingly Wenger does not

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Good for you and I for one hope that you are right. My problem is that others see where they are going wrong but seemingly Wenger does not

Don't see that Brendan Rodgers or Luis Van Gaal are learning from their mistakes

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Brendan Rodgers for me has been massively found out, he has the opposite problem Wenger has where as Wenger prevaricates and agonises over a signing, Rodgers doesn't give his transfers any real thought and he has wasted a lot of money on players that either don't fit into his system (Balotelli) or just aren't good enough

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Southampton are doing tremendously well but where as Wenger stubbornly refuses to rotate, Southampton don't have the strength in depth to allow them to and it will catch up with them

[Power n Glory]

It tells me that no-one has the presence of mind to stand up to him, do you think Wenger would walk if Gazidis or Keswick said you need to delegate more Arsene....would he fuck?

The likelihood is that Sanchez was bought with Wenger having no say in the transfer negotiation as he was in Brazil at the time? Wenger just accepted it.

I do agree with you when you say he's a control freak, but I also don't believe he's the type of person to cause a conflict if some things were taken from his control.

Is there no wifi in Brazil? Was Sanchez and his agent not in Brazil at the same time as Wenger? There is no evidence of any player being signed without Wenger's consent. Just speculation.

I really don't know how Wenger would react if power were to be wrestled from his hands. There was speculation of a rift between him a Steve Bould and it's just speculation but weigh up what's just been posted up about Wenger and delegating tasks to other coaches and there might be something there. I wouldn't rule it out. Wenger has his own way and just look how Bould has morphed into a carbon copy of Pat Rice. He sits on his hands right next to Wenger and says nothing. Just like Pat Rice did. There was talk of Bould not getting much time alone with the defenders, also stuff about us not studying the opposition using video...he's very hands on. If he believe our style of play should be a certain way, I don't know how someone from within the camp can change his way of thinking, especially if they haven't got that much experience either.

Can Gazidis appoint a more experienced coaches to have direct input on what the first team do? I have no idea if that's possible. But he has appointed new youth coaches and a fitness coach so it's possible. But this is worth a read.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/apr/16/stan-kroenke-arsenal-arsene-wenger


Asked whether he could envisage Kroenke spending big on a player without consulting the manager and then demanding that the player be picked, Wenger chuckled and replied: "I don't think he would do that. We will run the club with the technical department having the decision on what is technical. For all the rest I have of course to answer to Stan Kroenke and I am ready to do that for any questions, but I run the technical department."

http://www.tribalfootball.com/arsenal-boss-wenger-warns-potential-club-owner-dont-interfere-399991


Yet the Frenchman made it clear he would have no problem with Kroenke if the American did not interfere with the way he runs the football side of the club.

Wenger said: "The only important thing is the club is run properly in every department. The most important department in any football club is what is happening on the pitch.

"As long as whoever owns the club doesn't interfere with what we do on the pitch, then for me it's OK.

"I spoke to Stan Kroenke at the club's AGM.

"He's really interested in sport because he has two or three clubs in the States. He's interested in sport, he's interested in football but I do not ask him specifically why he invests at Arsenal. It's not my problem."

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Southampton are doing tremendously well but where as Wenger stubbornly refuses to rotate, Southampton don't have the strength in depth to allow them to and it will catch up with them

The odd thing is they're not doing all that differently to last season at this point. 25 points to 22. They've actually lost a game more this season (they drew 4 by this point last season) and have conceded the same number; 5. They have obviously scored more but that's in no small part down to that freak game against a pretty pathetic Sunderland.

Incidentally, it was at this time last season (coming back from this international break) that they went on a pretty horrible run of form. After Villa they play City, Arsenal and United...

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The odd thing is they're not doing all that differently to last season at this point. 25 points to 22. They've actually lost a game more this season (they drew 4 by this point last season) and have conceded the same number; 5. They have obviously scored more but that's in no small part down to that freak game against a pretty pathetic Sunderland.

Incidentally, it was at this time last season (coming back from this international break) that they went on a pretty horrible run of form. After Villa they play City, Arsenal and United...

Very true they have only twice faced teams that finished in the top seven last season and lost both of them, but considering how many players they lost (mainly to yourselves) the fact they have been able to continue in the same vein as last season is quite remarkable, it shows that the manager is largely unimportant if the infrastructure at the club is correct.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Is there no wifi in Brazil? Was Sanchez and his agent not in Brazil at the same time as Wenger? There is no evidence of any player being signed without Wenger's consent. Just speculation.

I really don't know how Wenger would react if power were to be wrestled from his hands. There was speculation of a rift between him a Steve Bould and it's just speculation but weigh up what's just been posted up about Wenger and delegating tasks to other coaches and there might be something there. I wouldn't rule it out. Wenger has his own way and just look how Bould has morphed into a carbon copy of Pat Rice. He sits on his hands right next to Wenger and says nothing. Just like Pat Rice did. There was talk of Bould not getting much time alone with the defenders, also stuff about us not studying the opposition using video...he's very hands on. If he believe our style of play should be a certain way, I don't know how someone from within the camp can change his way of thinking, especially if they haven't got that much experience either.

Can Gazidis appoint a more experienced coaches to have direct input on what the first team do? I have no idea if that's possible. But he has appointed new youth coaches and a fitness coach so it's possible. But this is worth a read.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/apr/16/stan-kroenke-arsenal-arsene-wenger



http://www.tribalfootball.com/arsenal-boss-wenger-warns-potential-club-owner-dont-interfere-399991

My point is the transfers that were undertaken were done in a much more timely manner, I'm sure Wenger spoke with Sanchez and his agent in Brazil (I'm not for a second saying Sanchez was signed without Wengers permission) but I think Wenger was more instrumental in convincing Sanchez in coming to us, and Dick Law was more responsible for agreeing a fee with Barcelona and agreeing a wage with player and agent. Yes of course speculative on my part, but compare it to the farago with Real Madrid and Higuain the previous summer and something has changed.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Very true they have only twice faced teams that finished in the top seven last season and lost both of them, but considering how many players they lost (mainly to yourselves) the fact they have been able to continue in the same vein as last season is quite remarkable, it shows that the manager is largely unimportant if the infrastructure at the club is correct.

So it shouldn't matter that "Brendan Rodgers has been...massively found out".

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMxiGI7Rhlo&feature=youtu.be&a

That guy in the hat is a bloody bellend :haha:

Josh :bow:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Step back with dignity accept your time is over , you gave us great times but your time has past. A new regime is the only answer.

This has to be cripps :bow:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

i think i preferred it when we didn't spend money on players like ozil, sanchez, debuchy etc. At least then it was understandable why we were so shit.

Now we have those players and we are still shit.

Wenger has to go

Drugs :bow:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

So it shouldn't matter that "Brendan Rodgers has been...massively found out".

Southampton and Liverpool in terms of club structure are apples and oranges and have very different measurements of success.

[topgun]

Sadly, it is the holy grail for most clubs. It certainly seems to be for us.

As long as we keep achieving it and the money keeps rolling in, the Board are under no pressure at all to make the one change we desperately need.



You gotta hand it to AFC,not many companies could get away with charging five star price's for a two star product and have people queuing up to buy it.

[fakeyank]

You gotta hand it to AFC,not many companies could get away with charging five star price's for a two star product and have people queuing up to buy it.

:gp:

But why is it like this with us? Why are Arsenal fans still accepting of this crap? I have asked this question in another thread and there was no answer really. We have the money, the continuity, the fans and European football, yet all we can do is produce some atrocious brain dead football. Why is there no big demonstrations against Wenger and the board?
People keep putting the blame on the board and/or Wenger, but the reality is that they are under no pressure. Arsenal fans are the most spineless group of fans I have come across.. majority of us (including me) are keyboard warriors! We seem to have all the balls in the world to hijack a 'AskArteta' or 'AskMonreal' twitter feed, but there never really is concerted criticism against the board or Wenger. Frankly speaking, we deserve this shit!

[BOBN]

I'd like to see Bould as manager surrounded by a team including people like Bergkamp and Keown

People that love the club
A man who wouldnt fly to games, a TV pundit and a person whos been bald since his 20s (who will international fans and players graviate to? Movie star Mourinho or the dour no-name guy?). Get real m8.

-----

Why are we not talking about how Chambers is looking like Jenkinson 2.0? Wenger needs to quit shopping in Chavland to be down with the Chavs and give serious defenders a go. Bellerins turn now surely.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It has already been said. The stadium is made of state of the art fire retardant materials.

Trying to burn it down would be pointless,

As for real fan action - I think you mentioned Newcastle as an exemplar in the past. Tell us all just how effective that has been? And you personally could make a start by not walking around all the time looking like the Armoury is your exclusive tailor.

[Globalgunner]

Petitions and protests are good but not necessary. What matters most, both financially and appearance wise is to boycott the games. let the tourists go yes, but season ticket holders and others who are dissatisfied have to stop attending games. From the empty stands the sponsors and advertisers will be the ones who speak loudest in the ears of the management. They only respond to threats of loss of revenue. Its the only thing. Don't buy any stuff from the stores either. Puma will have him out of the door faster than anyone of us can.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

A man who wouldnt fly to games, a TV pundit and a person whos been bald since his 20s (who will international fans and players graviate to? Movie star Mourinho or the dour no-name guy?). Get real m8.

-----

Why are we not talking about how Chambers is looking like Jenkinson 2.0? Wenger needs to quit shopping in Chavland to be down with the Chavs and give serious defenders a go. Bellerins turn now surely.


That's interesting you've given me a whole new perspective

Do players/fan really gravitate to a club based on the physical attractiveness of the manager. Mourinho only has one movie star attribute and that is his chronic narcissism.

Would Bergkamp really be expected to attend every single European match?

Does Keowns media work make him unsuitable for coaching?

Also Chambers a 19 year old has a torrid time against a pacey winger so it's logical to throw him to the wolves instead of playing him at centre back which is his preferred position?

[Power n Glory]

Would Bergkamp really be expected to attend every single European match?

Ugh....yeah!

[Power n Glory]

My point is the transfers that were undertaken were done in a much more timely manner, I'm sure Wenger spoke with Sanchez and his agent in Brazil (I'm not for a second saying Sanchez was signed without Wengers permission) but I think Wenger was more instrumental in convincing Sanchez in coming to us, and Dick Law was more responsible for agreeing a fee with Barcelona and agreeing a wage with player and agent. Yes of course speculative on my part, but compare it to the farago with Real Madrid and Higuain the previous summer and something has changed.

How is the Sanchez signing any different to Ozil? Two world class attacking players we'd be crazy to turn down. Those aren't hard choices for Wenger. We've got two extremes when it comes to our transfer policy. The Sanchez and Ozil deals show great progress but on the other end of the spectrum we have rubbish like Kallstrom and our current CB situation. I don't know how much has really changed behind the scenes because we've always been quick to snap up players Wenger really wants and by the time it hits the press, it's a done deal. We've already tabled the bid and in the advance stages such as our most recent deals with Giroud, Pod, Gervinho or going as far back as Rosicky and Reyes.

[Niall_Quinn]

A man who wouldnt fly to games, a TV pundit and a person whos been bald since his 20s (who will international fans and players graviate to? Movie star Mourinho or the dour no-name guy?). Get real m8.

-----

Why are we not talking about how Chambers is looking like Jenkinson 2.0? Wenger needs to quit shopping in Chavland to be down with the Chavs and give serious defenders a go. Bellerins turn now surely.

If I had to guess I'd say we're not talking about Chambers as looking like Jenkinson 2.0 because he's nothing like him, in appearance or in the way he plays. One poor game doesn't mean we need to hit the transfer market. Jenks is doing okay too, holding down his place in the team above us in the league.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

How is the Sanchez signing any different to Ozil? Two world class attacking players we'd be crazy to turn down. Those aren't hard choices for Wenger. We've got two extremes when it comes to our transfer policy. The Sanchez and Ozil deals show great progress but on the other end of the spectrum we have rubbish like Kallstrom and our current CB situation. I don't know how much has really changed behind the scenes because we've always been quick to snap up players Wenger really wants and by the time it hits the press, it's a done deal. We've already tabled the bid and in the advance stages such as our most recent deals with Giroud, Pod, Gervinho or going as far back as Rosicky and Reyes.

Difference is Ozil was a panic buy to mollify the fans where as Sanchez was a signing in a position we needed

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying for a second that the board are buying players that Wenger doesn't want that's what Spurs do with their director of football. I'm saying maybe with these big signings (and possibly this includes Ozil) that the manager is stating what player he wants and the club agrees the price rather than the manager.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If I had to guess I'd say we're not talking about Chambers as looking like Jenkinson 2.0 because he's nothing like him, in appearance or in the way he plays. One poor game doesn't mean we need to hit the transfer market. Jenks is doing okay too, holding down his place in the team above us in the league.

Precisely I think both Chambers and Jenkinson are good enough for Arsenal

I think if Chambers is played at centre back and we buy one more centre back we'd have a well balanced defence.

Well apart from Monreal, he is a poor left back let alone centre back

[Power n Glory]

Difference is Ozil was a panic buy to mollify the fans where as Sanchez was a signing in a position we needed

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying for a second that the board are buying players that Wenger doesn't want that's what Spurs do with their director of football. I'm saying maybe with these big signings (and possibly this includes Ozil) that the manager is stating what player he wants and the club agrees the price rather than the manager.

We needed Sanchez just as much as we needed Ozil. We already had players for those positions but we've made room for quality but that's besides the point. So you're suggesting Wenger has been taken out of the negotiation process or deciding factor on the price. It's possible but Ozil and Sanchez aren't the best of examples. You don't shop in Harrods to try and haggle on prices or go to a Ferrari lot to ask how much one of their cars cost. With certain World Class players, you just know you're going to have to spend £30m and above on the transfer plus over £110k in wages. Just the mention of those players names and you know they'll cost money because they're well known world class players. I doubt anyone could tell Wenger that such players would be expensive and he'd be surprised. He'd know the cost and I doubt he'd question it. You usually get what you pay for. They are Super super quality in Wenger terms.

Th problem comes with players he's not so certain about and players that aren't so well known. Or non attacking players that aren't valued as much in football. The not so 'super super quality' players. It doesn't seem as though Wenger values the art of defending and besides on the pitch you can see it in the transers. It's probably why he thinks he can convert someone like Monreal into a CB and why he won't pay serious money for CB's and DM's in general. This is where we get stuck and the value of the player isn't as obvious. I don't think much has changed in terms of signings or we'd have bought players for CB and DM. They are crucial areas that we always seem to dither on.

[selassie]

We needed Sanchez just as much as we needed Ozil. We already had players for those positions but we've made room for quality but that's besides the point. So you're suggesting Wenger has been taken out of the negotiation process or deciding factor on the price. It's possible but Ozil and Sanchez aren't the best of examples. You don't shop in Harrods to try and haggle on prices or go to a Ferrari lot to ask how much one of their cars cost. With certain World Class players, you just know you're going to have to spend £30m and above on the transfer plus over £110k in wages. Just the mention of those players names and you know they'll cost money because they're well known world class players. I doubt anyone could tell Wenger that such players would be expensive and he'd be surprised. He'd know the cost and I doubt he'd question it. You usually get what you pay for. They are Super super quality in Wenger terms.

Th problem comes with players he's not so certain about and players that aren't so well known. Or non attacking players that aren't valued as much in football. The not so 'super super quality' players. It doesn't seem as though Wenger values the art of defending and besides on the pitch you can see it in the transers. It's probably why he thinks he can convert someone like Monreal into a CB and why he won't pay serious money for CB's and DM's in general. This is where we get stuck and the value of the player isn't as obvious. I don't think much has changed in terms of signings or we'd have bought players for CB and DM. They are crucial areas that we always seem to dither on.

:gp:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We needed Sanchez just as much as we needed Ozil. We already had players for those positions but we've made room for quality but that's besides the point. So you're suggesting Wenger has been taken out of the negotiation process or deciding factor on the price. It's possible but Ozil and Sanchez aren't the best of examples. You don't shop in Harrods to try and haggle on prices or go to a Ferrari lot to ask how much one of their cars cost. With certain World Class players, you just know you're going to have to spend £30m and above on the transfer plus over £110k in wages. Just the mention of those players names and you know they'll cost money because they're well known world class players. I doubt anyone could tell Wenger that such players would be expensive and he'd be surprised. He'd know the cost and I doubt he'd question it. You usually get what you pay for. They are Super super quality in Wenger terms.

Th problem comes with players he's not so certain about and players that aren't so well known. Or non attacking players that aren't valued as much in football. The not so 'super super quality' players. It doesn't seem as though Wenger values the art of defending and besides on the pitch you can see it in the transers. It's probably why he thinks he can convert someone like Monreal into a CB and why he won't pay serious money for CB's and DM's in general. This is where we get stuck and the value of the player isn't as obvious. I don't think much has changed in terms of signings or we'd have bought players for CB and DM. They are crucial areas that we always seem to dither on.

I don't disagree in anyway, I am speculating but comparing Higuain and Ozil and Sanchez there does seem to be a difference between an ultimately fruitless saga and two quickly completed deals.

My speculation leads me to ask the question, if the Board have shown that they can intercede with Wenger than why aren't they doing it more often. If Wenger had a list of defenders he wanted, why didnt they just go out and get them....I'm convinced Wenger wouldn't resign if he didnt control every aspect of the transfer and if he did than frankly we are better off without him (win/win)

The fact is that the board is just as incompitent as the manager they unequivocally support, and this is shown that even in a business sense we are not as we might be; our match day revenue is high as our television revenues for stumbling into the champions league. But other than this our commercial revenues are no where near the level the top clubs in Europe are making and this is a result of a risk adverse model. The only way to be on the same level as Bayern Munich, Manchester United of this world is success on the pitch.
But instead they allow themselves to be duped by a man just looking to add further to his own financial portfolio.
Wenger is a problem, but he's not the only problem......

[Munchies]

The worrying thing is that he isn't even going after any players in positions that need covering. CDM has been a problem since Flamini left in 08, and he's finished as a player now.

Even signing someone like Diame from West Ham would've been an upgrade on what we currently have.

And we were heavily linked to that defender Roma bought, and why did they buy him? Because they offered £2m more :lol:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Would Bergkamp really be expected to attend every single European match?


:doh: :haha:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:doh: :haha:

Does Wengers entire back room staff follow him all over the continent or are they in fact based at London Colney?.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The worrying thing is that he isn't even going after any players in positions that need covering. CDM has been a problem since Flamini left in 08, and he's finished as a player now.

Even signing someone like Diame from West Ham would've been an upgrade on what we currently have.

And we were heavily linked to that defender Roma bought, and why did they buy him? Because they offered £2m more :lol:

Well yes and again this is where the board should be stepping in and saying "Arsene let us worry about the price"

I agree about Diame, i think West Ham were mad to sell him especially to Hull

[Power n Glory]

I don't disagree in anyway, I am speculating but comparing Higuain and Ozil and Sanchez there does seem to be a difference between an ultimately fruitless saga and two quickly completed deals.

My speculation leads me to ask the question, if the Board have shown that they can intercede with Wenger than why aren't they doing it more often. If Wenger had a list of defenders he wanted, why didnt they just go out and get them....I'm convinced Wenger wouldn't resign if he didnt control every aspect of the transfer and if he did than frankly we are better off without him (win/win)

The fact is that the board is just as incompitent as the manager they unequivocally support, and this is shown that even in a business sense we are not as we might be; our match day revenue is high as our television revenues for stumbling into the champions league. But other than this our commercial revenues are no where near the level the top clubs in Europe are making and this is a result of a risk adverse model. The only way to be on the same level as Bayern Munich, Manchester United of this world is success on the pitch.
But instead they allow themselves to be duped by a man just looking to add further to his own financial portfolio.
Wenger is a problem, but he's not the only problem......

We pulled out of Higuain because of Suarez. The Suarez deal turned sour and moved for Ozil instead. Higaun is a good player but he's not elite status super 'duper' quality. A good player that I'd have been happy with but if you find out Suarez has a £40m buyout clause....that's why that deal fell flat. We pulled out.


My speculation leads me to ask the question, if the Board have shown that they can intercede with Wenger than why aren't they doing it more often. If Wenger had a list of defenders he wanted, why didnt they just go out and get them....I'm convinced Wenger wouldn't resign if he didnt control every aspect of the transfer and if he did than frankly we are better off without him (win/win)


I answered this one yesterday.


Wenger said: "The only important thing is the club is run properly in every department. The most important department in any football club is what is happening on the pitch.

"As long as whoever owns the club doesn't interfere with what we do on the pitch, then for me it's OK.

So if Wenger doesn't like the sound of defender A, B and C, what are they supposed to do? If he tells Ivan Chambers and Monreal are good enough to cover Vermaelen, what is Ivan supposed to tell him? 'No they are not'? You've seen how dismissive Wenger gets with people with no experience in management. I doubt he'd be that flippant with Ivan but there is an understanding that he runs the technical side without interference.

Yes, the Board have a responsibility but they've inherited this guy. I don't think Silent Stan cares but I think Ivan is leaving him to fall on his own sword. We've brought in a new fitness coach and scout and from what I've heard, we're not making the best use of them. Wenger can't say he doesn't get the support because he does and it seems like most of the fans and media have now stopped looking in the other direction when it comes to our problems. If he's wholly responsible for the technical side and that's how he wants it, it's on him to deliver results. Now with the stadium almost paid off, we may see a different standard set for the club.

[Munchies]

Well yes and again this is where the board should be stepping in and saying "Arsene let us worry about the price"

I agree about Diame, i think West Ham were mad to sell him especially to Hull

And Wenger lets Jenkinson go to West Ham, then doesn't even play Bellerin there which results in all of our back line messing up :doh:

[Munchies]

And probably the biggest clanger was not signing Cesc.

We all thought it'd be okay if that money was invested into a top CDM/CB.

Atleast Flamini is leaving at the end of the season

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We pulled out of Higuain because of Suarez. The Suarez deal turned sour and moved for Ozil instead. Higaun is a good player but he's not elite status super 'duper' quality. A good player that I'd have been happy with but if you find out Suarez has a £40m buyout clause....that's why that deal fell flat. We pulled out.



I answered this one yesterday.



So if Wenger doesn't like the sound of defender A, B and C, what are they supposed to do? If he tells Ivan Chambers and Monreal are good enough to cover Vermaelen, what is Ivan supposed to tell him? 'No they are not'? You've seen how dismissive Wenger gets with people with no experience in management. I doubt he'd be that flippant with Ivan but there is an understanding that he runs the technical side without interference.

Yes, the Board have a responsibility but they've inherited this guy. I don't think Silent Stan cares but I think Ivan is leaving him to fall on his own sword. We've brought in a new fitness coach and scout and from what I've heard, we're not making the best use of them. Wenger can't say he doesn't get the support because he does and it seems like most of the fans and media have now stopped looking in the other direction when it comes to our problems. If he's wholly responsible for the technical side and that's how he wants it, it's on him to deliver results. Now with the stadium almost paid off, we may see a different standard set for the club.

I'm not sure that's the case, Wenger came out after selling Vermaelen and was asked about replacing him and said that we needed to because it left the defence short.

Kostas Manolas, Sokratis Papastatoupolos were two of the defenders on our radar and as another poster pointed out Manolas joined Roma because they were prepared to pay two million more. So yes if the board sit idly by and let Wenger sit on his hands, prevaricate other a couple of million here and there they are just as culpable as the manager.

The buck stops at the top, they are his employers.....

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

And probably the biggest clanger was not signing Cesc.

We all thought it'd be okay if that money was invested into a top CDM/CB.

Atleast Flamini is leaving at the end of the season

For the life of me I don't understand the Cesc argument, the clear fact is we are already unbalanced with central midfielders of his ilk, we should have bought a physical holding player unquestionably but the whole clamour for Cesc seems to be about who he would join if we didnt sign him rather than anything else.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'd have signed Cesc and taken the hit on Ozil.

[Fist of Lehmann]

And probably the biggest clanger was not signing Cesc.

We all thought it'd be okay if that money was invested into a top CDM/CB.

Atleast Flamini is leaving at the end of the season

Not soon enough if you ask me. This guy is so tactically indisciplined that I'm even wondering whether a useless Coq might not be a better option. He's just gone out on loan to Charlton though.

[Munchies]

For the life of me I don't understand the Cesc argument, the clear fact is we are already unbalanced with central midfielders of his ilk, we should have bought a physical holding player unquestionably but the whole clamour for Cesc seems to be about who he would join if we didnt sign him rather than anything else.

Well we have Wenger in charge so although we all know that's what we need it just won't happen.

We currently play Arteta and Flamini as our defending midfielders. You could argue that Cesc can defend just the same as them, but also has the ability of contributing to our attack unlike Arteta/Flamini.

[Bumble]

I'd have signed Cesc and taken the hit on Ozil.

if we signed Cesc we probably wouldn't have signed Welbeck and just pushed Sanchez up top with Cesc and Ozil in behind (when Ozil was fit)

What I don't understand with Wenger was when he first came to Arsenal he knew the value of a strong back 4 as he had one already made plus signed guys like Lauren and Campbell. He also signed guys like Vieira/Petit big imposing Central midfielders. So why has he changed, football hasn't moved on that much that these guys wouldn't be quality players now.

I am totally baffled as to why he doesn't do this anymore.

[Power n Glory]

I'm not sure that's the case, Wenger came out after selling Vermaelen and was asked about replacing him and said that we needed to because it left the defence short.

Kostas Manolas, Sokratis Papastatoupolos were two of the defenders on our radar and as another poster pointed out Manolas joined Roma because they were prepared to pay two million more. So yes if the board sit idly by and let Wenger sit on his hands, prevaricate other a couple of million here and there they are just as culpable as the manager.

The buck stops at the top, they are his employers.....

So the Board were able to 'convince' to spend £30m to £40m on Ozil and Sanchez but couldn't convince him to spend £10m on a defender? Do you know how crazy that sounds?

Wenger may have said we needed defenders but he always makes such statements and does nothing. The money is there available and it's not te Board's job to force him to spend. Alarm bells should have been ringing when he was trying out Monreal as CB in preseason.

Why would they back out of signing a defender in the summer but hand Wenger the funds for the winter window? Also, why did we loan out Jenkinson for the season when we are short on defenders? These are technical decisions.

[Power n Glory]

if we signed Cesc we probably wouldn't have signed Welbeck and just pushed Sanchez up top with Cesc and Ozil in behind (when Ozil was fit)

What I don't understand with Wenger was when he first came to Arsenal he knew the value of a strong back 4 as he had one already made plus signed guys like Lauren and Campbell. He also signed guys like Vieira/Petit big imposing Central midfielders. So why has he changed, football hasn't moved on that much that these guys wouldn't be quality players now.

I am totally baffled as to why he doesn't do this anymore.

Besides Campbell who was a well known and obvious choice, he's always sucked at signing CB's and has always done it on the cheap. It's never been his strong point and he probably thinks he can pull another 'Kolo Toure' with Monreal.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

So the Board were able to 'convince' to spend £30m to £40m on Ozil and Sanchez but couldn't convince him to spend £10m on a defender? Do you know how crazy that sounds?

Wenger may have said we needed defenders but he always makes such statements and does nothing. The money is there available and it's not te Board's job to force him to spend. Alarm bells should have been ringing when he was trying out Monreal as CB in preseason.

Why would they back out of signing a defender in the summer but hand Wenger the funds for the winter window? Also, why did we loan out Jenkinson for the season when we are short on defenders? These are technical decisions.

Why is it crazy?

Marquee signings like Ozil and Sanchez sell shirts and therefore they have a vested interest in seeing those deals go through.

I'm not saying the board backed out of signing a defender I just think they allowed Wenger to prevaricate.

They back the guy, so ultimately his inaction reflects on them as well as himself

These people aren't unwilling victims of Wenger dogma, they are his chief enablers

[Power n Glory]

Why is it crazy?

Marquee signings like Ozil and Sanchez sell shirts and therefore they have a vested interest in seeing those deals go through.

I'm not saying the board backed out of signing a defender I just think they allowed Wenger to prevaricate.

They back the guy, so ultimately his inaction reflects on them as well as himself

These people aren't unwilling victims of Wenger dogma, they are his chief enablers

What about Debuchy and Chambers? They're not the sort of players that sell shirts but deals were done quickly.

His in action only reflects on himself. It only damages his own reputation and nobody is running stories that the club is run badly. If he knew what he was doing he's never agreed to letting Verm or Jenkinson go and even failing that, he could at least play Chambers as CB and someone else at RB.

[Power n Glory]

Why is it crazy?

Marquee signings like Ozil and Sanchez sell shirts and therefore they have a vested interest in seeing those deals go through.

I'm not saying the board backed out of signing a defender I just think they allowed Wenger to prevaricate.

They back the guy, so ultimately his inaction reflects on them as well as himself

These people aren't unwilling victims of Wenger dogma, they are his chief enablers

If you believe there has been a slight shift in how we do transfers and the board has more control, it's worth asking yourself how we drop the ball on the CB position but we're able to wrap up the Ozil and Sanchez deal in a 'timely manner'. Same goes for Chambers and Debuchy.

It's also worth considering Wenger's history with CB's. It's not great so are we even certain he had any firm targets in mind for the role.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Does Wengers entire back room staff follow him all over the continent or are they in fact based at London Colney?.

No but his assistant does you fucking pleb.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No but his assistant does you fucking pleb.

Did your mother influence you to talk like that when she was being sodomised by paying punters as you watched from your cot as a nipper?

Who said anything about Bergkamp being an assistant, I just said I'd like to see him as part of the coaching set up.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

There's an old adage back home which says, "empty barrels make the most noise".

H_C_Z does appear to give loads of credence to this adage, imho.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If you believe there has been a slight shift in how we do transfers and the board has more control, it's worth asking yourself how we drop the ball on the CB position but we're able to wrap up the Ozil and Sanchez deal in a 'timely manner'. Same goes for Chambers and Debuchy.

It's also worth considering Wenger's history with CB's. It's not great so are we even certain he had any firm targets in mind for the role.

Again it's speculation on my part

Also we are talking about Ivan Gazidis here, a man who touts for business with a Russian Telecom company without even doing the most basic of research, which had he done so he would have discovered Alisher Usmanov owned.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

There's an old adage back home which says, "empty barrels make the most noise".

H_C_Z does appear to give loads of credence to this adage, imho.

Because I think it's naive to think that the people who pay Wenger and back him without question are not in any way responsible for the mistakes he makes?.

I'd like to believe that Wenger is the only problem and that once he's gone we will be in paradise, but I'm an adult and disinclined to believe fairy stories.

Plus it's a bit rich coming from someone who advocates the Chelsea approach to hiring and firing managers

[Power n Glory]

Again it's speculation on my part

Also we are talking about Ivan Gazidis here, a man who touts for business with a Russian Telecom company without even doing the most basic of research, which had he done so he would have discovered Alisher Usmanov owned.

Yes, the same guy that snapped up Ozil, Sanchez, Welbeck, Chambers and Debuchy in a 'timely fashion'. You can't have it both ways.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Because I think it's naive to think that the people who pay Wenger and back him without question are not in any way responsible for the mistakes he makes?.

I'd like to believe that Wenger is the only problem and that once he's gone we will be in paradise, but I'm an adult and disinclined to believe fairy stories.

Plus it's a bit rich coming from someone who advocates the Chelsea approach to hiring and firing managers

Being disingenuous as per usual, eh?

I used the chavs and a few other clubs as examples of clubs that had undergone manager changes without becoming "unstable". I'm sure you remember that word you used as you sought to spread fear by manufacturing a crisis.

Nowhere did I advocate that we should copy their model and embed it into our Club, as you are trying to make it sound here.

Do carry on though, pal. Make some more noise.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Yes, the same guy that snapped up Ozil, Sanchez, Welbeck, Chambers and Debuchy in a 'timely fashion'. You can't have it both ways.

Again I don't know that he did this, my theory is that comparatively these deals have been done quick and if he's capable of taking Wenger out of the loop on transfer value and price (which he would have delegated to Dick Law) than he is capable of being more assertive with Wenger on other things.

The other alternative explanation is that Wenger is as much involved in transfers as he's always been and the money is now avaliable to him not to need to haggle (like he did unsuccessfully with Mata, Baptista etc)

The blogger Le Grove made the point this morning, what would Wenger do if certain powers were taken from him? Wild he walk? (I somehow don't think he would) and if he did no big loss.

So regardless of whether Gazidis is interfering sporadically as I think he is, or whether Wenger is as much in charge as he always was. They are responsible for him

[Globalgunner]

You can spin it any way you want HCZ. The main problem at the club is Wenger and his spaced out visions of what football is and what its finances should be. He goes and we get our sanity back. We all know the management is culpable given Sir Chips risible statement at the last AGM. In as much as they allowed the man to run amok and buy into his lowered expectations based on Wengers own diminishing grip on the game. The solution is not to dismantle the entire hierarchy at Arsenal. It is to get rid of the underperforming manager and build again.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Being disingenuous as per usual, eh?

I used the chavs and a few other clubs as examples of clubs that had undergone manager changes without becoming "unstable". I'm sure you remember that word you used as you sought to spread fear by manufacturing a crisis.

Nowhere did I advocate that we should copy their model and embed it into our Club, as you are trying to make it sound here.

Do carry on though, pal. Make some more noise.


Chelsea's mid season managerial changes does cause instability even in 2012 on one hand they win the European cup and on the other hand they finish behind spurs and Newcastle in the league?

It's also done wonders for Spurs I don't think

You're entitled to your opinion, but don't expect me to give it any "credence" to borrow your parlance.

Power_and_Glory doesn't agree with anything I say but he's prepared to attack the argument rather than the person. But obviously as you think I'm too idiotic to debate, you can't really be surprised if I'm dismissive of you.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You can spin it any way you want HCZ. The main problem at the club is Wenger and his spaced out visions of what football is and what its finances should be. He goes and we get our sanity back. We all know the management is culpable given Sir Chips risible statement at the last AGM. In as much as they allowed the man to run amok and buy into his lowered expectations based on Wengers own diminishing grip on the game. The solution is not to dismantle the entire hierarchy at Arsenal. It is to get rid of the underperforming manager and build again.

Do you have faith that the club can create a structure and environment for someone more competent to function in?

I seriously don't.

I hope I'm wrong

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Chelsea's mid season managerial changes does cause instability even in 2012 on one hand they win the European cup and on the other hand they finish behind spurs and Newcastle in the league?

It's also done wonders for Spurs I don't think

You're entitled to your opinion, but don't expect me to give it any "credence" to borrow your parlance.

Power_and_Glory doesn't agree with anything I say but he's prepared to attack the argument rather than the person. But obviously as you think I'm too idiotic to debate, you can't really be surprised if I'm dismissive of you.

So now you've forgotten all your personal attacks against me. Firmly secured the victim hat on your head. :haha:

Like I said, carry on.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

So now you've forgotten all your personal attacks against me. Firmly secured the victim hat on your head. :haha:

Like I said, carry on.


I don't feel victimised, I love throwing personal abuse about as much as the next man

I'm just explaining why I have thrown personal abuse your way

[Power n Glory]

Do you have faith that the club can create a structure and environment for someone more competent to function in?

I seriously don't.

I hope I'm wrong

We're one of the best run clubs in the world. You talk as if we're some other North London club.

Top notch facilities, a great youth setup, enough resources to sign top players and a Board that won't dictate to the manager, buy players on his behalf or royally fuck things up like we've seen at Spurs, Newcastle and Chelsea.

Our biggest problem is Wenger. I can understand why the Board were happy with 4th whilst going through a transnisition from Highbury to the Emirates but the manager of all people should be pushing further than that and shouldn't be content with this barren spell because he's a sportsman. He should have more ambition. His hunger for success and trophies shouldn't be linked to finances, unlike the Board's. Our aim to stay in 4th was linked to the CL money and stability. Now if we want to grow our brand, we need titles. That's the only way more lucrative sponsorship deals will come in. That's all financial incentive. Ivan has already set out our ambition of being up there with Bayern and knows the best deals go to title winners. It's why clubs like Barca and Real sack managers quickly if they can't deliver titles. Their brand plummets without that bragging right.

But Wenger shouldn't need anymore incentive to see us push on. He should be doing everything possible for the win. Not sure if your an F1 fan but can you imagine if Lewis Hamilton and Rosberg decided to ease of the acceleration and not race as hard because Mercedes had already achieved their target in the Contructors Championsip? It would be totally backwards. It should be your first instinct to win. Or just imagine if Mercedes kept sending Lewis out with a dodgy uncompetitive car? Wouldn't he be banging on the door demanding better? If he had any ambition of being the world's best he would.

That's what I don't get about these excuses for Wenger. If the Board were screwing up on deals, he should be the first one to chew them out over such fuck ups and demand a change. I don't buy this 'enabler' argument. He's a sportmans for crying out load and shouldn't be comfortable with losing all the time. It's really time to stop the excuses. How can he go into the season so unequipped and feel so comfortable?

[fakeyank]

It has already been said. The stadium is made of state of the art fire retardant materials.

Trying to burn it down would be pointless,

As for real fan action - I think you mentioned Newcastle as an exemplar in the past. Tell us all just how effective that has been? And you personally could make a start by not walking around all the time looking like the Armoury is your exclusive tailor.

At Newcastle, at least the manager and board knows how much of a discontent there is. At least they are trying!! The Utd fans failed with their black scarves movement but they got noticed! I have a feeling that when there are mass demonstrations, Wenger will at least wake up OR walk! Chances are that he will just keep collecting the paycheck but at least the fans are trying. We wont know what we can do without even trying. Who knows... there might a person or two who has some shame in the upper echelons of the club.

As for looking like Armoury being my personal stylist... blame that on the women I dated or my friends. They know that the one gift idea they can always fall back on, is to buy me Arsenal stuff because I love Arsenal. I have told them multiple times how I dont want to give $$$'s to the club but they think I am just ranting as usual! I will however take some blame for the times when I am in London.. the tourist in me wakes up and starts buying merchandise. I have promised myself that I am not buying anymore for myself!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I still think your coming from the approach that I'm defending Wenger

I just think its a nonsense to say we are one of the best run clubs in the world

You say how he needs to be removed

Who are the ones preventing that from happening?

I'm sure the majority shareholder has influence but the Board are ultimately those who decide who should be the manager.

If they are not happy with him, they have the option to remove him or at least put pressure on him

If they are happy with him, what does it say about them?

The youth set up you describe is also stale and the Academy system is not producing to the standard required, it is an example of the clubs neglect.

Wengers unchallenged control of everything football wise at the club, is also a result of the clubs neglect.

By offering Wenger a new contract it is a tacit approval of everything he's done and the unchecked power he has.

Can they then be trusted to not only appoint a new man, but give that man the support he needs when they have overseen Wengers bungling with total indifference.

[Power n Glory]

How have they not supported the manager? Again, they've kept Wenger in charge because we needed stability through the transition and the target was 4th. They've wrongly given him a new contract because they believe he'd be even better with the new sponsorship money. That's no crime because most of us thought the same.

And why is it nonsense to say we are the best run clubs? Whose better than us in the Premiership? Name names.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

How have they not supported the manager? Again, they've kept Wenger in charge because we needed stability through the transition and the target was 4th. They've wrongly given him a new contract because they believe he'd be even better with the new sponsorship money. That's no crime because most of us thought the same.

And why is it nonsense to say we are the best run clubs? Whose better than us in the Premiership? Name names.

Name me a club in the premiership where the manager has total and unchecked power and is allowed to appoint his own boss.

if you think that's an example of a club being well run than you and I differ in our opinion of the term

By arguing that the manager was perceived safe pair of hands during a period where money was tight you fall into the trap of judging his performance after only a short period of time with money to spend.

If you're saying the board made this decision for the reason your saying, then arguably you'd have to cede that he'd need to be given time.....something I don't think you believe.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger is the longest serving coach in the Prem! Probably in Europe because so many manager swaps.

The only manager to rival that was Fergie and he had loads of power at Utd but he delegated. That's the difference.

Name names and don't cop out.

[Power n Glory]

Also, I don't think you'll find many top clubs around that have to tell a manager what they should be doing to get results on the pitch.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Wenger is the longest serving coach in the Prem! Probably in Europe because so many manager swaps.

The only manager to rival that was Fergie and he had loads of power at Utd but he delegated. That's the difference.

Name names and don't cop out.

Do you think anyone at United would have allowed Ferguson unchecked power?

Personally I think any club is better run than ours as long as it hasn't gone to the opposite extreme of appointing a director of football.

The board have no control over any football aspect of the club, they have deferred totally to one man

I blame Dein for the current mess because he brought Kroenke and Usmanov to the table but at least when people like him, Danny Fiszman, Ken Friar and Keith Edelman were about there was a definite sense of structure and hierarchy. The board now there is a total disconnect between them and the footballing aspect and in that vaccum Wenger has made himself a little tin God

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Also, I don't think you'll find many top clubs around that have to tell a manager what they should be doing to get results on the pitch.

I agree but they have given unparalleled authority to someone who clearly does need telling

[Power n Glory]

Do you think anyone at United would have allowed Ferguson unchecked power?

Personally I think any club is better run than ours as long as it hasn't gone to the opposite extreme of appointing a director of football.

The board have no control over any football aspect of the club, they have deferred totally to one man

I blame Dein for the current mess because he brought Kroenke and Usmanov to the table but at least when people like him, Danny Fiszman, Ken Friar and Keith Edelman were about there was a definite sense of structure and hierarchy. The board now there is a total disconnect between them and the footballing aspect and in that vaccum Wenger has made himself a little tin God

Ferguson went to war with the main shareholder of Man Utd over a damn racehorse and didn't lose his job! How's that for unchecked power? I'm sure if he wanted to be more hands on like Wenger he could, but the key to good leadership is delegation.

As for our club being one of the worst run, you're smoking. You truly have lost the plot on that one. We spend within our means, make a profit, make a killing at the gates, London based, a 60 seat stadium...there is no way this would be possible if we didn't have the right people to see this through, Wenger included. You are smoking, my friend.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

There's an old adage back home which says, "empty barrels make the most noise".

H_C_Z does appear to give loads of credence to this adage, imho.

What more do you expect from someone that defends wenger and still thinks he's the right man for the job

Luckily some of us see sense.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Plus it's a bit rich coming from someone who advocates the Chelsea approach to hiring and firing managers

It's an excellent approach that clearly works