Ched Evans

[Letters]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30022080

Hmm.

Tricky one. He has shown zero remorse, he still maintains his innocence.
On the other hand he's served his time (whether it was enough time is a separate debate) and so should be free to pursue a career.

Hmm.

[Marc Overmars]

I agree he should be free to pursue a career now he's done his time.

In all honesty he's got some guts coming back to play. I think the question for Sheffield United is a moral one, do they really want to be represented by a rapist?

[GP]

He has served his sentence so he should be free to persue his career. I'm not sure I'd want him representing my club, but that's another matter.

Also, ched is a terrible name.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't see any Moral conundrum here, he has committed a crime and has been punished for it

Just because the nature of the crime makes us feel emotionally uncomfortable, there is no reason to stop him from returning to a job now that he has paid his debt to society

[Syn]

Sheff Utd would be gaining a footballer but conceding a huge advantage to the away fans. She was drunk Robin Chedders, she was drunk.

He has done his time. Nothing wrong with him doing what is best for his career from now on. Sheff Utd are also free to do what they want. Starts scoring (a few goals) and the fans will be behind him.

I'm guessing most of the people that signed that petition know no more than I do about the 'truth'. Depends on how much faith you have on our legal system. Messy area, couldn't give a fuck. What would actually be very interesting is reading what self-appointed bastions of morality, Gary Lineker and Piers Morgan had to say on the issue. Unthinkable that they could go 2 minutes without seeing which way the wind is blows.

[mr_brighterside]

Not a straight forward one. His lack of remorse is only acceptable if he is appealing/denying responsibility but even then he has completed his sentence.

He will get stick for the rest of his career now and arguably the rest of his life (not that I'm saying that is a just or sufficient punishment).

[Xhaka Can’t]

True, he has served his time. But that does not mean people have to stop feeling or expressing what they think about him. While a now free person should not be denied the right to make a living, others equally, are well within their rights to not want to fund it.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Served his time. Don't see what he's done wrong tbh

[Niall_Quinn]

Wonder when the politicians are going to serve their time for raping kids?

[Letters]

Wonder when the politicians are going to serve their time for raping kids?

When someone finds the documents which have been 'accidently' destroyed.

lolz.

[Niall_Quinn]

They'll need to find more celebs and sportsmen pretty damn fast I think. The true nature of the British establishment is seeping to the surface. Rape is one of those foul crimes that robs a human being of dignity, dignity being a trait of self awareness and an important attribute that separates human beings from other animals. So there's no downplaying rape. But it's pretty amazing how the media and public perspective and focus is skewed towards one footballer who has been caught and punished. There's so much more to pay close attention to and act upon.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2836357/Victim-VIP-abuse-scandal-says-saw-Conservative-MP-kill-young-boy-police-launch-probe-THREE-deaths-linked-depraved-sex-ring.html

[Marc Overmars]

Evans was about to sign for Oldham, then fans went mental, even sending death threats. Sponsors also stated their intention to withdraw funding.

So now the deal is off. Is there any point in him coming back to play? Because it's going to be the same reaction every time.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It looks like he will have to serve the remainder of his sentence and then go abroad.

[Letters]

Just because Oldham Athletic have said "no", doesn't mean Ched Evans will take it as an answer...
(thank you, Popbitch).

He has now given a muted apology - not for the rape which he continues to deny, but for the affect it has had.

It's difficult to see how he can ever play at any senior level again.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Until/Unless his conviction is quashed he's probably too toxic for any club to take him.

It's odd though, players have come back from "worse" (for want of a better word). I guess it's just the nature of the offence.

I don't get why people keep bashing him for "showing no remorse" though. If he truly believes he's innocent of the crime, then of course he will feel no remorse or show no contrition.

[LDG]

Cheeky bid?

[Niall_Quinn]

Apparently somebody so outraged by the thought of signing a rapist threatened to rape the daughter of a board member if the rapist was signed. If he refuses to donate his brain to science upon his death then it should be extracted against his wishes, if it can be located.

The guy served time for a crime. More than cam be said for most criminals, particularly the white collar ones. This is more about the outraged arseholes than the perp or the victim.

[Marc Overmars]

I think clubs can deal with fan backlash but taking a financial hit from sponsorship withdrawal is too much because that money is their lifeblood.

[Letters]

This probably isn't helping him
http://chedevans.com/

[Özim]

Awful crime he was found guilty of, on that basis he shouldn't be allowed to return to such a high profile profession. Most people with criminal record find it very hard to get any job, never mind one that pays so handsomely and offers so many advantages, why should he be any different.

[AFC Leveller]

I think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion and the media have made this story just to sell copies. I mean just look at the reaction from the BBC, "Breaking news, Steve Bruce has backed Ched Evans" but all he said was 'everyone deserves a second chance'.

[Letters]

Awful crime he was found guilty of, on that basis he shouldn't be allowed to return to such a high profile profession. Most people with criminal record find it very hard to get any job, never mind one that pays so handsomely and offers so many advantages, why should he be any different.

Is it really worse than getting blind drunk and crashing your car? #tonyadams.
No-one was hurt, but that was more luck than judgement.

Things aren't always black and white.
There is a difference between dragging women off the streets into dark alleys and raping them at knifepoint and shagging some girl who willingly went to a hotel room with someone in the early hours (did she think they were just going to have a chat?) and later cried rape and was deemed too drunk to give consent.

Not that I'm condoning what he did, but there are shades of grey. Up to 50, apparently.

And in most normal professions a conviction is 'spent' after a number of years and no longer has to be declared to a potential employer, it's only the publicity surrounding this which makes that moot.

[Syn]

its a post Twitter world. No surprise that Van Persie's still playing. :GP :

nah chedders, stop protesting your innocent. Even if you are innocent it's not doing you any good. Just leave the country and join another league where either no-ones heard of you. Sick of hearing about it tbh.

[Syn]

Letters playing the Devils advocate. Advocate of the devil goes again. Drink driving and killing someone V a cheeky rape. That's a boring one. How about terrorist v rapist?

[Marc Overmars]

I don't think he's allowed to leave the country until his sentence is up, still another 2 years to go I think.

TBH if I felt I was wrongly convicted of something I would protest my innocence all day long.

[Letters]

Letters playing the Devils advocate.
Well, no.

You whine about the lack of proper debate on here, one gets going and you WUM instead of joining in
:shrug:

[Syn]

Well, no.

You whine about the lack of proper debate on here, one gets going and you WUM instead of joining in
:shrug:

Yeah fair enough. Great debate so far, look forward to more.

Just played the debate on PES and this is how it ends:
there is inconsistency in how people are judged, but it depends on where individuals draw the line and how much faith you have in our legal system.

[Syn]

I don't think he's allowed to leave the country until his sentence is up, still another 2 years to go I think.

Ah, ok. Then I'd just keep my head down. Whether you feel you're innocent or not, whatever he's doing now clearly isn't doing him any favours. Undersrand it's an emotional decision but his advisors should've been more clued up.

[Özim]

Is it really worse than getting blind drunk and crashing your car? #tonyadams.
No-one was hurt, but that was more luck than judgement.

Things aren't always black and white.
There is a difference between dragging women off the streets into dark alleys and raping them at knifepoint and shagging some girl who willingly went to a hotel room with someone in the early hours (did she think they were just going to have a chat?) and later cried rape and was deemed too drunk to give consent.

Not that I'm condoning what he did, but there are shades of grey. Up to 50, apparently.

And in most normal professions a conviction is 'spent' after a number of years and no longer has to be declared to a potential employer, it's only the publicity surrounding this which makes that moot.

At the end of the day he's been convicted though, so there must have been some pretty convincing evidence to make the jury believe he was. As for drunk driving, it's not a good thing at all however you don't go out to hurt someone at least so it's not so intentional.

Sometimes people get women somewhere by telling them certain things they believe will get them what they want, some women maybe believe they are being genuine and even if she did go up to his room doesn't mean she wanted to have sex, it's not unusual to just have a kiss with someone and yet for them not to want to sleep with you. As for him, some ootballers think they are big shots who can do what they like, guess this is a wake up call that they are not above the law.

As for the sentence, well in reality he hasn't served the entirety of it, he was released early, as they all seem to be. May as well tell them what they will actually serve when sentencing them rather than telling them they are going to serve twice as long when it's not true.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well, no.

You whine about the lack of proper debate on here, one gets going and you WUM instead of joining in
:shrug:

The least he could have done was put a link to a crackpot website and said, that's you that is! But he couldn't be bothered to do even that much.

[Niall_Quinn]

At the end of the day he's been convicted though, so there must have been some pretty convincing evidence to make the jury believe he was.

Close to iron cast I'd say, because scummy lawyers have a hundred and one technicalities that can make rape go away. It's one of the hardest charges to make stick and not because of the evidence but because the victim ends up being the perp and the police end up being victims of the shysters. Lots of hoops to jump through to get it into a courtroom and then a whole circus to manage. Based on the schedule of evidence on that pro web site the guy is clearly innocent. So no way can that be the full story unless the jury was crooked.

[rodders]

He maintains his innocence and the authorities have fast tracked a review of the case which would indicate they have some concerns. I expect those seeking continuing retribution class themselves as Christians, but show little of the milk of human kindness. Vengeance is mine sayeth thor Lord not those on facebook and twitter.

[Coney]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30022080

Hmm.

Tricky one. He has shown zero remorse, he still maintains his innocence.
On the other hand he's served his time (whether it was enough time is a separate debate) and so should be free to pursue a career.

Hmm.

No, he has NOT served his time. He is out on parole but his sentence is not complete yet. If he commits any arrestable offence he will be right back in to complete his sentence behind bars.

Furthermore, it looks as if he is saying he did not commit rape because of his perception of what it is. See this article here and note that it was published by the Independent and their lawyers would have made damn sure that what is written is defendable against being sued...

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ched-evans-has-served-his-time--and-other-misconceptions-about-the-convicted-rapist-footballer-9957849.html

If I read it correctly, he admits to what generally happened but he does not think that taking advantage of a woman who is incapable and practically unconscious is not rape and that is his defence. If so, I would equate it to stealing a car and then saying it is not theft because the owner had left the keys in it.

[Letters]

No, he has NOT served his time. He is out on parole but his sentence is not complete yet. If he commits any arrestable offence he will be right back in to complete his sentence behind bars.
Fair enough. But he is, in theory, free to work. The public nature of his job and the press fuss make that pretty much impossible for him although with the nature of his offence I guess it would be difficult for him to find work anywhere.

If I read it correctly, he admits to what generally happened but he does not think that taking advantage of a woman who is incapable and practically unconscious is not rape and that is his defence. If so, I would equate it to stealing a car and then saying it is not theft because the owner had left the keys in it.
:lol: That's a very good analogy :tiphat:

Where do you get 'practically unconscious' from though? There's a video on Ched Evans' website (a site which really isn't helping him) which shows the CCTV footage of the woman getting out of the taxi, walking in to the hotel, remembering a pizza, returning to the car to get it and then walking back in again. The frame rate is poor so it's hard to tell but she seemed to be walking steadily enough. I'm sure she was very drunk but practically unconscious is pushing it.

What I don't understand is that two men were charged with rape, both had sex with the woman but only one was convicted. If she was deemed incapable of giving consent then both should have been convicted. Maybe it's because she'd gone back to the hotel with the one who was cleared and Ched Evans arrived later.

Anyway, there are arguments why he should be allowed to return to playing football and arguments why he shouldn't. But a virtual angry mob brandishing pitchforks shouldn't be part of that debate.

[Coney]

Fair enough. But he is, in theory, free to work. The public nature of his job and the press fuss make that pretty much impossible for him although with the nature of his offence I guess it would be difficult for him to find work anywhere.

:lol: That's a very good analogy :tiphat:

Where do you get 'practically unconscious' from though? There's a video on Ched Evans' website (a site which really isn't helping him) which shows the CCTV footage of the woman getting out of the taxi, walking in to the hotel, remembering a pizza, returning to the car to get it and then walking back in again. The frame rate is poor so it's hard to tell but she seemed to be walking steadily enough. I'm sure she was very drunk but practically unconscious is pushing it.

What I don't understand is that two men were charged with rape, both had sex with the woman but only one was convicted. If she was deemed incapable of giving consent then both should have been convicted. Maybe it's because she'd gone back to the hotel with the one who was cleared and Ched Evans arrived later.

Anyway, there are arguments why he should be allowed to return to playing football and arguments why he shouldn't. But a virtual angry mob brandishing pitchforks shouldn't be part of that debate.

Maybe she walked OK but drunk people don't always fall over! Normally when people are convicted and then go for the rehabilitation, they have accepted their guilt. Now it might be that on appeal the verdict is changed but until then he is a criminal serving a sentence. People like Steve Bruce - who I had some time for - are not helping the situation. If it is still in the appeal process, public figures should say nothing until it has been processed.

Unless he is cleared, I think any club with any sense will stay away as he is tainted goods and in this day and age, with sponsorship money being what keeps some clubs alive, they are not going to want to take him on.

[Letters]

Maybe she walked OK but drunk people don't always fall over!
Practically unconscious people probably would though.

Agree with the rest though, he's far too toxic right now for anyone to touch. His only option will probably be to go abroad when his probation ends.
I'm not even sure if being cleared would help him.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

No, he has NOT served his time. He is out on parole but his sentence is not complete yet. If he commits any arrestable offence he will be right back in to complete his sentence behind bars.


Yeah this. I hear so many people saying "he's served his time", which is just patently untrue.

Yes he has a right to attempt to move on and attempt to rebuild his career but fans and sponsors of a club also have the right to make their opinions heard. What he's going through is no different to what any other convicted criminal goes through in attempting to find employment after a custodial sentence, only without the massive publicity and a rich father-in-law who can create websites to try and clear your name. I have zero sympathy for him.

Committing crime has consequences other than going to prison and one of the good things about this sorry affair is that seeing what a social pariah Evans has become may deter many other young men from doing similar things.

[Letters]

What he's going through is no different to what any other convicted criminal goes through in attempting to find employment after a custodial sentence.
Well that's obviously rubbish.
While most people in his position would find it difficult to get work, they wouldn't have sponsors or angry mobs with pitchforks (or, worse, Twitter accounts) piling pressure on potential employers.
I don't particularly have sympathy for him - at best he took advantage of a drunk girl and acted like a twat like most modern footballers do, and now he's refusing to admit doing anything wrong aside from being unfaithful to his girlfriend (which he did, whether or not it was a criminal act). But I don't think the comparison with a 'normal' person commuting a similar crime really stacks up.

[Coney]

He will find it more difficult but that is also because he had a career in a public arena. Footballers, actors, musicians would all have this kind of problem - it goes with the territory. Maybe he should have thought of that before. You commit a crime, there will be consequences. I have no sympathy at all for his predicament. He created the situation. Even if he does not think it was rape - not illegal - if someone is callous enough to exploit a woman who is drunk then I have no time for them.