Match Reaction vs Stoke (away).

[Letters]

And I dont get why he cant be booed or called a cunt... we call the refs, opposition players, our own players, teachers, bosses etc cunts everyday.
No, not our own players. That's kinda what being a supporter means, there is a clue in the name.

It was a video of an unsuccessful manager getting booed while boarding a train. That is normal in football.
Well, the most successful manager in our history actually, the manager of the current FA Cup winners. But anyway...

It is common in football, but usually it's the opposition fans doing it and it's us thinking they're classless, cowardly c****.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My own players do cause me to swear but it's not directly at them it's a exhasperated "for fuck sake"

I question players abilities saying "they are shit" or "playing like a cunt" on message boards

[Power n Glory]

Football fans swearing! What's the world coming to? You guys need to get a grip.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

http://1.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/37/37/9cd3b6899009b235b894cdb681521b08-guy-gets-stuck-in-gym-equipment.gif

[fakeyank]

You seriously think those bellends were manning the fuck up? :haha:

Not them. I am asking the people who are throwing a hue and cry over a couple of cunt words and boos, to man the fuck up!

[fakeyank]

I don't understand what your failing to come to terms with here, I don't want to question your upbringing because I don't know you but what in the world is acceptable about screaming swear words at someone in public?. It's the behaviour of the oath, It's also the behaviour of the coward because had it been a different or younger manager they'd screamed at that individual might not have been so quick to turn the other cheek....it's easy to shout and swear at someone who is not going to respond.

Oh dear, you clearly dont understand, do you? This is a football team manager and if you are going to call him names, that is not the worst thing in the world! This is the same man who is as clueless as a retarded baboon and you want him to treated with respect, when he talks shit week in and week out?
Again, remember you are talking about a sport which runs massive emotions in a fan. If you are going to pretend that this is the same as a boardroom meeting at the Ritz, then we might as well stop this conversation.

[fakeyank]

I don't recall many saying that at this stage last year.
If they had said that it would have been a pretty weird thing to say, we had 35 points at this stage last year. Only one fewer than Chelsea have now, I don't see many people calling them crap.


I don't know what you mean by slide. There really hasn't been one. Had there been a consistent slide we'd have long since been in mid-table or worse.
In fact last season was the culmination of 5 years of incremental improvements (in terms of points at least), it's the sharp decline this year which has baffled me (although not PnG who saw it coming but just didn't tell anyone till now, well done him for definitely predicting it secretly though).
You and HCZ are right about the defence though, that's been a perennial problem which for once seemed to be sorted last year but has now gone back to crap again.

I can remember Zimm getting hounded last year around this time because he said that we were punching above our weight and that we will be 4th at the end of the season. Dont get me wrong... people hounded him out but guess who was proved right?

When I say slide, I mean the quality of football, I mean the passion from the players, passion of the fans etc. Compare Arsenal FC from any footballing perspective in the last 10 years and we have had a steady decline. Many times, we were lucky that the competition for 4th declined more than us. It may be the case this year too, but that doesnt discount the fact that for the highest prices in Europe, we produce some of the most atrocious football. Value for money is not something you would associate with AFC!

[fakeyank]

No, not our own players. That's kinda what being a supporter means, there is a clue in the name.

Well, the most successful manager in our history actually, the manager of the current FA Cup winners. But anyway...

It is common in football, but usually it's the opposition fans doing it and it's us thinking they're classless, cowardly c****.

So you mean to say that the most successful manager in our clubs history can do anything and not be booed? Sure, let him rape some women and children, but dare we boo him or call him a cunt! He has been a horrible football manager for the better part of a decade now and if fans have called him a cunt, I dont see the big hue and cry about it. Like I said "Man up!".. he was just cussed out and booed.

As for calling own players/managers cunts, you clearly havent seen Chelsea fans talk about Torres, Liverpool fans talk about Balotelli, Arsenal fans about Fabregas (before he even left), Newcastle fans about their manager, West ham fans about Fat Sam etc etc... clearly we are watching a different football in a parallel universe. #Interstellar

[Globalgunner]

Most successful manager in our history? Only if our history started in the 90s. Trophy haul only slightly better than GG. Never won a European title. Presided over the most humiliating tonkings in our history. Never retained a championship. Has only won 1 cup in 10 years. Yes that is a CV you could easily take to Madrid Barca or Bayern.

He is not some septuagenarian being wheeled around in a chair

i find it ironic that the same people who go apoplectic at the mere mention of Chelsea and City, are screaming class. Oh i get it its only classless when you do it to your own fans. Like our former chairman Hill -wood and his condescending comments towards our own fans.

This is football chaps not hockey or badminton. Calling him clueless or incompetent to his face is only stating Gods own truth.

[Xhaka Can’t]

We're watching the slow decline and downfall of the manager who built the best team ever to pull on the red and white jersey. The guy who masterminded exhilarating football the like of which we won't see again in the cynical, "destroyer", "don't like it up 'em", world of moneyball. The chavs couldn't buy it, the gypos can't buy it, even Madrid and Barca can't buy it. We were spoiled rotten back then, ever the opposition fans used to clap us off the pitch FFS! Remember that. We're also seeing the end of a guy who took Arsenal from relative England bound obscurity and made us a name on the world stage. A guy who transformed the English game from piss up and hackathon to a professional arena for athletes. The guy in charge when the Invincibles went 49 games without the opposition laying a glove on us, until a creature from the gutter who is worshipped by the media dragged us back into the slime by means that were the antithesis of the sporting ideal.

Those are Wenger's achievements and they will never be repeated, ever, by anyone no matter how much cash is thrown at it. But now he's burnt out, out of touch, living on past glories, call it what you want. It's time for him to go and most agree on that. Who do you think will suffer most if we wash our hands of our own history and start screaming abuse at the man? Do you think the board will suffer? Do they even give a fuck about the one or two or three decades we've sat through following this club? Were they even there at the highest of high points? Do they understand what achievement beyond the balance sheet is, like a fan naturally does? For Wenger, his name is in the history books no matter how much the screamers want to trash it. Yeah sure, the fans paid the money, they turned up, they cheered (through the good times at least). But it was the manager and the players who had to deliver, and they did. Spectacularly. And we all lapped it up. If Wenger can't repeat the unrepeatable it doesn't mean he has lost what he already achieved. But if the fans try to reduce him to nothing, humiliate him, what can they say about there own legacy? Yes, I was there in the good time and I cheered. Yes, I was there in the bad times too and I doorstepped the manager and screamed abuse in his face. Maybe for some fans they don't really care about self respect. But most will.

Wenger is in his last days, could be a few days, could be as many as a thousand. However long, he'll leave with his dignity and achievements intact. Let's see what state the fans are in and how their own dignity measures up when the announcement finally arrives that the manager is stepping down. Let's see if we, the guys who have sat here for the one, two, three decades have any sort of legacy left or if we've just turned into that guy who wants it today because he knows how much he paid. We hate the club down the road for having that attitude, don't we?

:gp:

[Xhaka Can’t]

If you guys are going to come up with some of the most ridiculous analogies the world has ever seen, the least you can do is make them funny.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1758671/posts

[saintnickle]

Take a look at this.Wenger is blameless ,its all the referees fault

http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/39424#comment-822923

[Xhaka Can’t]

That's that sorted.

Bring on whoever it is we're playing next.

[LDG]

We're watching the slow decline and downfall of the manager who built the best team ever to pull on the red and white jersey. The guy who masterminded exhilarating football the like of which we won't see again in the cynical, "destroyer", "don't like it up 'em", world of moneyball. The chavs couldn't buy it, the gypos can't buy it, even Madrid and Barca can't buy it. We were spoiled rotten back then, ever the opposition fans used to clap us off the pitch FFS! Remember that. We're also seeing the end of a guy who took Arsenal from relative England bound obscurity and made us a name on the world stage. A guy who transformed the English game from piss up and hackathon to a professional arena for athletes. The guy in charge when the Invincibles went 49 games without the opposition laying a glove on us, until a creature from the gutter who is worshipped by the media dragged us back into the slime by means that were the antithesis of the sporting ideal.

Those are Wenger's achievements and they will never be repeated, ever, by anyone no matter how much cash is thrown at it. But now he's burnt out, out of touch, living on past glories, call it what you want. It's time for him to go and most agree on that. Who do you think will suffer most if we wash our hands of our own history and start screaming abuse at the man? Do you think the board will suffer? Do they even give a fuck about the one or two or three decades we've sat through following this club? Were they even there at the highest of high points? Do they understand what achievement beyond the balance sheet is, like a fan naturally does? For Wenger, his name is in the history books no matter how much the screamers want to trash it. Yeah sure, the fans paid the money, they turned up, they cheered (through the good times at least). But it was the manager and the players who had to deliver, and they did. Spectacularly. And we all lapped it up. If Wenger can't repeat the unrepeatable it doesn't mean he has lost what he already achieved. But if the fans try to reduce him to nothing, humiliate him, what can they say about there own legacy? Yes, I was there in the good time and I cheered. Yes, I was there in the bad times too and I doorstepped the manager and screamed abuse in his face. Maybe for some fans they don't really care about self respect. But most will.

Wenger is in his last days, could be a few days, could be as many as a thousand. However long, he'll leave with his dignity and achievements intact. Let's see what state the fans are in and how their own dignity measures up when the announcement finally arrives that the manager is stepping down. Let's see if we, the guys who have sat here for the one, two, three decades have any sort of legacy left or if we've just turned into that guy who wants it today because he knows how much he paid. We hate the club down the road for having that attitude, don't we?

:gp:


Also, I thought better of some people on here. A lot of what is written on these pages, is part of the reason our game has gone to the dogs.

Disgusting.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Football fans swearing! What's the world coming to? You guys need to get a grip.

But it's outside the sport, if fans in a stadium start shouting and swearing at the manager that's one thing, it's not my type of thing but outside a football ground it is just a thug screaming at a sixty five year old man.

Because if accosting the manager at a railway station is acceptable than presumably someone coming up to him and screaming at him in a restaurant is acceptable as well?

Really I'm surprised I need to explain this.

[Xhaka Can’t]

But it's outside the sport, if fans in a stadium start shouting and swearing at the manager that's one thing, it's not my type of thing but outside a football ground it is just a thug screaming at a sixty five year old man.

Because if accosting the manager at a railway station is acceptable than presumably someone coming up to him and screaming at him in a restaurant is acceptable as well?

Really I'm surprised I need to explain this.
:gp:

[Özim]

That's not it. The problem stems from your convenient amnesia. It's been 9 years running and your still surprised by the results. It's fine if you're a bit slow to spot the problem but it's really annoying when you start telling others that they couldn't foresee the problems we'd have this season. Especially when it's been repeated over and over again to you but you take none of it on board.

Comments like this take the biscuit.


We've won one trophy in 9 years so I think the 'doom mongers' have been getting it right for quite a long time. We've not turned shit in one season, we've been below par for a very long time. Even with the FA Cup win, we were on the end of some very humbling results.

Spot on, IMO this was predictable, we havent' been particularly good for quite a few years, our football is average, our squad has been packed full of CM for years and totally inbalanced, our defence largely poorly drilled and prone to errors, our finishing wayward and our goalkeeper dodgy.....as for tactics, well there don't seem to be any and that's before we even talk about these "unlucky" injuries.

A good manager would have systematically worked through the problem areas and sorted them out, if your defence is poor buy some quality and find a coach to drill them to work as a unit, if your keeper is erratic find someone consistent (Chelsea found Courtois from somewhere), if you lack leadership and steel in midfield find an uncomprimising DM who can put it about, if your lacking goals from your strikers, sign proven finishers.

Year after year nothing really changes, everyone can see the problems except the guy being paid handsomely to sort these out, a man who is happy to accept 4th place and treat it as if we'd won the CL and Premier League double.

I'm sick of this guy and his flawed complacent methods (and have been for many years), I'm sick of his patronising words, I'm sick of his excuses and I'm just plain sick of him now and wish that he just left the club for good because that would be best for everyone.....then and only then can we start looking forward to change and potentially challenging for honours.

[Özim]

But it's outside the sport, if fans in a stadium start shouting and swearing at the manager that's one thing, it's not my type of thing but outside a football ground it is just a thug screaming at a sixty five year old man.

Because if accosting the manager at a railway station is acceptable than presumably someone coming up to him and screaming at him in a restaurant is acceptable as well?

Really I'm surprised I need to explain this.

Don't people do the same at footballers who have moved clubs without anyone batting an eyelid though. I don't agree with it but I do think that if you do it at players then it's very much pot calling the kettle black.

[Letters]

I can remember Zimm getting hounded last year around this time because he said that we were punching above our weight and that we will be 4th at the end of the season. Dont get me wrong... people hounded him out but guess who was proved right?

:lol: Literally everyone thought we were punching above our weight. Pretty much no-one thought, deep down, we had enough to sustain it. Don't act like Zim's some visionary who saw that coming when no-one else did. If he was hounded it was for his relentless negativity rather than actually enjoying the fact that we were doing well. But we weren't crap last year, we got our most points since 2008.


So you mean to say that the most successful manager in our clubs history can do anything and not be booed? Sure, let him rape some women and children, but dare we boo him or call him a cunt!

Bloody hell, fy. Get a grip. Literally 6 months ago he was holding the FA Cup aloft.
Since then things have gone to pot but raping women and children? What the hell is wrong with you? You're a grown up. You're getting married. There are more important things in life than whether Arsenal win football matches or not. I can understand Wenger getting some stick in the ground when passions are running high but this wasn't in the ground, it was way after the game. There is literally nothing 'manly' about going to the station to scream abuse at someone, especially someone who you know is unable to respond (not that such knuckle-dragging behaviour deserves a response). They're the actions of thugs and cowards.


As for calling own players/managers cunts, you clearly havent seen Chelsea fans talk about Torres, Liverpool fans talk about Balotelli, Arsenal fans about Fabregas (before he even left), Newcastle fans about their manager, West ham fans about Fat Sam etc etc... clearly we are watching a different football in a parallel universe. #Interstellar


So other clubs have knuckle draggers too. That makes it all OK then. Years ago I remember dad and me having a conversation about corruption in the UK parliament and I said "it's far worse in Italy". He said "compare youself with the best, not the worst...". I am not going to base my standards on knuckle draggers at other clubs. Especially not Chelsea. I've been on Tube trains with Chelsea fans shouting racist abuse at other passengers, it made me embarrassed to be a football fan. But hey, I should just "man up", that's how football fans behave, it's fine. Right? Stoke fans boo Ramsey for having the cheek to not be ever so pleased that some thug who puports to be a professional football player snapped his leg in two. Spurs fans repeatedly call Wenger a paedo - a horrible accusation with no basis. But it's fine, it's just what football fans do. No, it's what idiots do. I'm not an idiot, I'm not going to join in with that sort of nonsense or condone those who do it.

[Power n Glory]

But it's outside the sport, if fans in a stadium start shouting and swearing at the manager that's one thing, it's not my type of thing but outside a football ground it is just a thug screaming at a sixty five year old man.

Because if accosting the manager at a railway station is acceptable than presumably someone coming up to him and screaming at him in a restaurant is acceptable as well?

Really I'm surprised I need to explain this.

You don’t need to explain anything. What gets me is snobbish attitude as if our fans are somehow better than others and ‘above’ this sort of behaviour. Arsenal ‘class’ they say. It doesn’t exist. There are some idiots among us and we’re a club supported by many. It’s football. We’ve seen fans intimidate Rooney and Gerrard into staying with their clubs. Fans abusing refs, burning shirts of former players, singing songs about rape, paedophiles, racist songs, anti-sematic, homophobic, you name it. It can be an ugly sport at times and I don’t agree with what happened to Wenger but it’s not the worst thing I’ve seen. It’s just a few boos and jeers I’m sure he won’t lose sleep over.

[Özim]

Did you not see our thrashings last season then and our performances, yeah we did ok on points but as a team were really were nothing special, top teams don't get tonked like we did as often as we did.

You might have thought the FA Cup was the start of a new dawn and chosen to ignore some of the most embarassing results in our clubs history but many didn't.

The FA Cup was a mere moment of a relief in an average season.

[Letters]

You don’t need to explain anything. What gets me is snobbish attitude as if our fans are somehow better than others and ‘above’ this sort of behaviour. Arsenal ‘class’ they say. It doesn’t exist. There are some idiots among us and we’re a club supported by many. It’s football. We’ve seen fans intimidate Rooney and Gerrard into staying with their clubs. Fans abusing refs, burning shirts of former players, singing songs about rape, paedophiles, racist songs, anti-sematic, homophobic, you name it. It can be an ugly sport at times and I don’t agree with what happened to Wenger but it’s not the worst thing I’ve seen. It’s just a few boos and jeers I’m sure he won’t lose sleep over.

I agree with that, actually. This sort of stuff does go on in football. But I don't think it's 'snobbish' on an individual basis to think it's a bit OTT and shouldn't go on.
And I certainly wouldn't applaud such actions from afar as some have been doing on this thread.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You don’t need to explain anything. What gets me is snobbish attitude as if our fans are somehow better than others and ‘above’ this sort of behaviour. Arsenal ‘class’ they say. It doesn’t exist. There are some idiots among us and we’re a club supported by many. It’s football. We’ve seen fans intimidate Rooney and Gerrard into staying with their clubs. Fans abusing refs, burning shirts of former players, singing songs about rape, paedophiles, racist songs, anti-sematic, homophobic, you name it. It can be an ugly sport at times and I don’t agree with what happened to Wenger but it’s not the worst thing I’ve seen. It’s just a few boos and jeers I’m sure he won’t lose sleep over.

So essentially you are arguing with me even though you agree with me. I don't remember calling it the worst thing ever, but its unacceptable just like all the other things you mention are unacceptable.
I'm not saying its unacceptable because our fans are above this because I think the last few days have proven that we have as much dickheads as any other club, it's calling a spade a spade.

[Letters]

I'll just leave this here, as they say

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/dec/08/booing-arsene-wenger-arsenal-fans-media

[Power n Glory]

I agree with that, actually. This sort of stuff does go on in football. But I don't think it's 'snobbish' on an individual basis to think it's a bit OTT and shouldn't go on.
And I certainly wouldn't applaud such actions from afar as some have been doing on this thread.

Condemning it is fine and there should be more respect for our own manager. But let's not present Arsene Wenger as some poor old man. I'm sure he has thick skin and dealt with worse from opposing fans. Just think to when he stood near the Old Trafford crowd. He'll be fine.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think there is an element of boredom that does cause the frustration, we want to believe that finishing 4th is a launching platform for something better not just the end result of a self perpetuating cycle.
But even looking at the bigger picture of stability and sustainability I think it's the failure to learn from mistakes, the psychological weakness of the team where title challenges have evaporated in a short period of time because one bad result has had a snowball effect. People will tell you well you need money to buy players with the mentality to ride through poor form, it's not an argument I buy into...natural footballing talent can't be taught, attitude and behaviour can be taught...anyone with any insight into psychology and cognitive behaviour therapy can tell you that.
What I do agree with though is that it is Wenger who has set the standard, and now if we don't meet that standard we as fans are less than forgiving (it's not a mitigation, it's just a fact)

[Niall_Quinn]

I'll just leave this here, as they say

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/dec/08/booing-arsene-wenger-arsenal-fans-media

Nailed it. Rare I'll compliment the media but fair's fair.

[Power n Glory]

So essentially you are arguing with me even though you agree with me. I don't remember calling it the worst thing ever, but its unacceptable just like all the other things you mention are unacceptable.
I'm not saying its unacceptable because our fans are above this because I think the last few days have proven that we have as much dickheads as any other club, it's calling a spade a spade.

I agree that we have some idiot as fans. But I think the reaction on here is OTT. I don't agree with the 'poor old man' argument. Wenger has been in the game for years and probably seen worse. He's probably more surprised about by the fact that it was our own fans booing. That's even if he noticed they were Arsenal fans.

He'll be fine and has probably dealt with more intimidating situations. He'll bat it off with a smile.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Condemning it is fine and there should be more respect for our own manager. But let's not present Arsene Wenger as some poor old man. I'm sure he has thick skin and dealt with worse from opposing fans. Just think to when he stood near the Old Trafford crowd. He'll be fine.

Again it's beside the point, what's right is right. Do I want these guys banned for life? No, Do I think these guys are a bunch of classless dickheads? Yes

[Power n Glory]

Nailed it. Rare I'll compliment the media but fair's fair.

It would help if you stopped reading the Daily Mail on daily basis.

[Globalgunner]

Now its been agreed that Arsene Wenger wasn't lynched at the Stoke train station. What next to talk about. Katie Prices reduction boobjob. WTF with that?!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I agree that we have some idiot as fans. But I think the reaction on here is OTT. I don't agree with the 'poor old man' argument. Wenger has been in the game for years and probably seen worse. He's probably more surprised about by the fact that it was our own fans booing. That's even if he noticed they were Arsenal fans.

He'll be fine and has probably dealt with more intimidating situations. He'll bat it off with a smile.

I've not used the poor old man argument, I've said rightly that these bell ends have sworn at Wenger because he is 65 and not of the character to respond. By that token I don't regard my Dad as a poor old man but he's 64 and I feel protective over him and if some idiots swore at him in the streets whilst my Dad is unlikely to care I'd want to tear their heads off.

Obviously I don't feel protective of Wenger or feel emotional about him getting abuse, I just find it deeply disappointing.

[Niall_Quinn]

It would help if you stopped reading the Daily Mail on daily basis.

I don't just read the Daily Fuhrer, but that's where I'm certain to find examples of the most corrosive "journalism". The Guardian is just as shit in its own way.

[LDG]

I'll just leave this here, as they say

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/dec/08/booing-arsene-wenger-arsenal-fans-media

Great article that.

[Niall_Quinn]

I agree that we have some idiot as fans. But I think the reaction on here is OTT. I don't agree with the 'poor old man' argument. Wenger has been in the game for years and probably seen worse. He's probably more surprised about by the fact that it was our own fans booing. That's even if he noticed they were Arsenal fans.

He'll be fine and has probably dealt with more intimidating situations. He'll bat it off with a smile.

The focus is not on the "poor old man", it's on the morons who follow a guy to a station so they can scream at him.

[Power n Glory]

I've not used the poor old man argument, I've said rightly that these bell ends have sworn at Wenger because he is 65 and not of the character to respond. By that token I don't regard my Dad as a poor old man but he's 64 and I feel protective over him and if some idiots swore at him in the streets whilst my Dad is unlikely to care I'd want to tear their heads off.

Obviously I don't feel protective of Wenger or feel emotional about him getting abuse, I just find it deeply disappointing.

I don't think his age has anything to do with it. Wasn't he walking on to the train with the rest of the team? Weren't they also being booed? It's not as if they caught him in a dark alley. The team bus has been booed before, right? He didn't respond because your not supposed to. That's how it goes for most celebrities unless your Kanye West. Just ignore and keep on walking.

[Power n Glory]

Don't people do the same at footballers who have moved clubs without anyone batting an eyelid though. I don't agree with it but I do think that if you do it at players then it's very much pot calling the kettle black.

:gp:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Really? I wouldn't care about the unwritten rule. If a stranger swore at me in public that person would be required to explain their actions and asked to apologise.

Personally I'd save "fuck off you cunt" for the people in this world that truly deserve it; Robert Mugabe, Vladimir Putin, Alisher Usmanov, Anjem Choudary, George Galloway....I could be here all day.

[Globalgunner]

The focus is not on the "poor old man", it's on the morons who follow a guy to a station so they can scream at him.

Yes the morons who simply have nothing else to do. than spend hard earned money, travel to a stadium to witness another capitulation by their team. I`m pretty sure if you do some investigating they were probably Stoke fans out to tarnish our classy holier than thou image

To HCZ. If your father was a pompous man who refused to do his job properly and insisted on keeping it. He would deserve everything thats hurled at him. You don't keep a high value job simply because your are ancient or formerly successful. You keep it because you are continually good at it. Funny how Prime ministers are called every name under the sun but football managers are supposed to be venerated when they are plainly incompetent.

[Power n Glory]

The focus is not on the "poor old man", it's on the morons who follow a guy to a station so they can scream at him.

It's just booing. We have bigger problems in the world.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Yes the morons who simply have nothing else to do. than spend hard earned money, travel to a stadium to witness another capitulation by their team. I`m pretty sure if you do some investigating they were probably Stoke fans out to tarnish our classy holier than thou image

To HCZ. If your father was a pompous man who refused to do his job properly and insisted on keeping it. He would deserve everything thats hurled at him. You don't keep a high value job simply because your are ancient or formerly successful. You keep it because you are continually good at it. Funny how Prime ministers are called every name under the sun but football managers are supposed to be venerated when they are plainly incompetent.

I don't particularly care for David Cameron as prime minister (although its a sad state of affairs that even as someone who is a Labour supporter like I am would rather him continue as PM than Ed Miliband take over) but yes I have just as much contempt for people who scream "fuck off you cunt" at him, and he's 48 not 65.

To shout and swear at someone is the recourse of the moron.....and it's inappropriate for me to be vitriolic to someone unless they have done something truly loathsome. Wenger hasn't killed your family, he hasn't sacked you from your job, he hasn't trampled on your human rights, he hasn't as far as I'm aware committed any crime. He is arrogant and pompous as you say but I think that of plenty of people I don't shout "fuck off you cunt" at them.

[Globalgunner]

Really? I wouldn't care about the unwritten rule. If a stranger swore at me in public that person would be required to explain their actions and asked to apologise.

Personally I'd save "fuck off you cunt" for the people in this world that truly deserve it; Robert Mugabe, Vladimir Putin, Alisher Usmanov, Anjem Choudary, George Galloway....I could be here all day.

Really: You reckon you and Wenger operate on the same level
If someone really swore at you in public. You would assess the situation before you decided what to do. Is he alone? is he 6`5" 220 pounds, Is he 5`6" and with a bunch of friends. Is he a native and you are a stranger. If you were smart you would just move on.

You are not emotional about it but you wont stop lamenting what happened? Mmm?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I have not exactly been sparing in my language towards Jose Mourinho, I find him a contemptible individual. But again if I saw him getting on a train with his team and I started swearing at him, I'd be the twat no ifs, ands or buts.
What I say about someone on a forum and what I scream in someone's face are massively removed from each other.

[Power n Glory]

I don't particularly care for David Cameron as prime minister (although its a sad state of affairs that even as someone who is a Labour supporter like I am would rather him continue as PM than Ed Miliband take over) but yes I have just as much contempt for people who scream "fuck off you cunt" at him, and he's 48 not 65.

To shout and swear at someone is the recourse of the moron.....and it's inappropriate for me to be vitriolic to someone unless they have done something truly loathsome. Wenger hasn't killed your family, he hasn't sacked you from your job, he hasn't trampled on your human rights, he hasn't as far as I'm aware committed any crime. He is arrogant and pompous as you say but I think that of plenty of people I don't shout "fuck off you cunt" at them.

That's your personal stance. Fair play. But there are plenty on here that have no problem shouting that sort of abuse at the ref, opposing fans, opposing players, players that are delaying contract talks....it's just a little hypocritical.

[Globalgunner]

I don't particularly care for David Cameron as prime minister (although its a sad state of affairs that even as someone who is a Labour supporter like I am would rather him continue as PM than Ed Miliband take over) but yes I have just as much contempt for people who scream "fuck off you cunt" at him, and he's 48 not 65.

To shout and swear at someone is the recourse of the moron.....and it's inappropriate for me to be vitriolic to someone unless they have done something truly loathsome. Wenger hasn't killed your family, he hasn't sacked you from your job, he hasn't trampled on your human rights, he hasn't as far as I'm aware committed any crime. He is arrogant and pompous as you say but I think that of plenty of people I don't shout "fuck off you cunt" at them.

He is a football manager. Not a parish priest. People say nasty thing to managers all the time both friend and foe. No news here except its Lord Wenger getting an earful.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Really: You reckon you and Wenger operate on the same level
If someone really swore at you in public. You would assess the situation before you decided what to do. Is he alone? is he 6`5" 220 pounds, Is he 5`6" and with a bunch of friends. Is he a native and you are a stranger. If you were smart you would just move on.

You are not emotional about it but you wont stop lamenting what happened? Mmm?

It's called debate, you take one point of view I take the other and we are discussing the subject. It's called discourse, you don't like the point of view I'm expressing and from previous posts you seem to be historically contemptuous of my postings but despite all this you are not telling me to "fuck off" or calling me a "cunt". Somehow this is because you think it would make you look like a dick?
But maybe you do have a point, I don't however Lament it as an isolated incident on its own I lament it that I live in a country where people see that kind of behaviour as acceptable.
The guys are dicks end of....

[Niall_Quinn]

It's just booing. We have bigger problems in the world.

Yeah, it wasn't just booing. Very, very true. We have bigger things to deal with. Which merely serves to emphasise how idiotic the screamers are. But accepting some (many) people are more concerned with how many times a ball goes in a net than the absolute fucking carnage going on all around them, so a few fucks who deserve to be not just booed but killed can make a few quid, even if you're going to get that invested in comparative trivia at least take a breath and remember all the time you cheered and why you cheered. A bit of balance. I don't think anyone would have mentioned this incident if it was just booing.

And the general "holier than thou" criticism that some are starting to weave into their apologies, has anyone tried to claim our fans are purer than the other team's fans? To quote a great man, "I didn't see it!". It's not about holier than thou, it's about the fact Wenger has actually stuck around and done a shit load for this club. He deserves respect for that and it's quite possible to respectfully disagree with everything he's doing these days. Hell, even the media hacks don't rush into the room and call him a cunt. They know how to make the water hot for him without resorting to abuse and these guys aren't exactly the sharpest tacks.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He is a football manager. Not a parish priest. People say nasty thing to managers all the time both friend and foe. No news here except its Lord Wenger getting an earful.

Funny I thought id made the point that who it was wasn't important

For example, I was the last person who would shed a tear when Margaret Thatcher died

But actually I thought the celebratory atmosphere among certain people was sickening, especially among young idiots too young to remember what Britain was like when she was prime minister.

And you could argue that her legacy was far more negative and destructive than anything Arsene Wenger could do at Arsenal.

During the Poll Tax Riots in 1990 was it a problem for people to chant "Maggie Maggie Maggie Out Out Out" not at all I'd have probably joined them but I was only seven.

But people screaming "die and burn in hell you evil bitch" just not on.

In fact I had the admire her when in 2001 campaigning in Romford for Andrew Rossendale replied to someone who called her an "evil woman" by saying "I'm sure there are a lot of people out there more evil than me dear"

[Niall_Quinn]

But people screaming "die and burn in hell you evil bitch" just not on.

Couldn't agree more. Which is why I settled on shouting, "Go Home!"

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Couldn't agree more. Which is why I settled on shouting, "Go Home!"

:rimshot:

[Power n Glory]

Yeah, it wasn't just booing. Very, very true. We have bigger things to deal with. Which merely serves to emphasise how idiotic the screamers are. But accepting some (many) people are more concerned with how many times a ball goes in a net than the absolute fucking carnage going on all around them, so a few fucks who deserve to be not just booed but killed can make a few quid, even if you're going to get that invested in comparative trivia at least take a breath and remember all the time you cheered and why you cheered. A bit of balance. I don't think anyone would have mentioned this incident if it was just booing.

And the general "holier than thou" criticism that some are starting to weave into their apologies, has anyone tried to claim our fans are purer than the other team's fans? To quote a great man, "I didn't see it!". It's not about holier than thou, it's about the fact Wenger has actually stuck around and done a shit load for this club. He deserves respect for that and it's quite possible to respectfully disagree with everything he's doing these days. Hell, even the media hacks don't rush into the room and call him a cunt. They know how to make the water hot for him without resorting to abuse and these guys aren't exactly the sharpest tacks.

Hey, not so long ago you were lecturing me about ‘football tribalism’ and not understanding it when I disagreed with posters that described Sagna as a ‘cunt’. Now look. That same attitude you were aping a few months back has arrived at Wenger’s door step. What do you expect when its common to encourage this sort of thing in football? That’s why it’s a bit late to look for the moral high ground.

[Özim]

Wenger got a bit of abuse from some angry unruly fans, big deal, it comes with the territory everyone knows what football is like (doesn't make it right). He gets 8 million or so a year, for that I'd happily deal with a few angry words and insults from a few bystanders, he can go home to his mansion or go off on his personal yacht afterwards if he wants to.

Like I said if you shout sh*t like this at players don't turn round and have a fit when it happens to a manager.

[Özim]

Hey, not so long ago you were lecturing me about ‘football tribalism’ and not understanding it when I disagreed with posters that described Sagna as a ‘cunt’. Now look. That same attitude you were aping a few months back has arrived at Wenger’s door step. What do you expect when its common to encourage this sort of thing in football? That’s why it’s a bit late to look for the moral high ground.

People have suddenly applied different rules because it's Arsene Wenger, loads of managers in the past have had to deal with much worse and noone has said a peep, he doesn't help matters by patronising all an sundry and disregarding all other opinions as foolish.

[Globalgunner]

People have suddenly applied different rules because it's Arsene Wenger, loads of managers in the past have had to deal with much worse and noone has said a peep, he doesn't help matters by patronising all an sundry and disregarding all other opinions as foolish.

No, No No!. You dont understand these people. Its not because hes old (he really isnt). Its not because hes a rubbish manager (He is). Its because its not nice and makes all of us look bad. Note especially the resort to calling them names like morons. People abusing people for abusing other people. :threaten:

[Niall_Quinn]

Hey, not so long ago you were lecturing me about ‘football tribalism’ and not understanding it when I disagreed with posters that described Sagna as a ‘cunt’. Now look. That same attitude you were aping a few months back has arrived at Wenger’s door step. What do you expect when its common to encourage this sort of thing in football? That’s why it’s a bit late to look for the moral high ground.

Are you seriously comparing Wenger to a player who ditched the club so he could go and sit on a bench for more cash? Sagna IS a cunt. Even so, I probably won't follow him home tonight screaming at him. That's because I'm not a stupid cunt like the stupid cunts who were baying at the guy who didn't jump ship and has been with this club for years, turning it into one of the premier clubs in Europe. And you're comparing him to a greedy little mercenary shite? This isn't about moral high ground, it's about deeds.

[Letters]

It's actually nothing to do with who it was either.
I would explain but...meh.

[Niall_Quinn]

People have suddenly applied different rules because it's Arsene Wenger, loads of managers in the past have had to deal with much worse and noone has said a peep, he doesn't help matters by patronising all an sundry and disregarding all other opinions as foolish.

That's exactly right. Different rules because it's Wenger. What bit about that don't you get? The Utd fans quite rightly called out the minority shitheaps who were slagging Fergie too. Different rules because it was Fergie and anyone who can't figure out why has been asleep for decades.

[Niall_Quinn]

No, No No!. You dont understand these people. Its not because hes old (he really isnt). Its not because hes a rubbish manager (He is). Its because its not nice and makes all of us look bad. Note especially the resort to calling them names like morons. People abusing people for abusing other people. :threaten:

They're called morons because that's the term from the dictionary that is most descriptive and befitting. If you act like a moron then you are likely a moron.

[Globalgunner]

They're called morons because that's the term from the dictionary that is most descriptive and befitting. If you act like a moron then you are likely a moron.

I think you'll find they are acting more like typical fans. BTW your thesaurus has holes in it

[Letters]

That's exactly right. Different rules because it's Wenger. What bit about that don't you get? The Utd fans quite rightly called out the minority shitheaps who were slagging Fergie too. Different rules because it was Fergie and anyone who can't figure out why has been asleep for decades.

I think there are also different rules because of where it was. Inside a ground in the heat of the moment we can all get frustrated.
Getting to the train station to abuse them after the fact and shout at one of our players to leave... :doh:

[Letters]

I think you'll find they are acting more like typical fans. BTW your thesaurus has holes in it

I don't know how many went up to Stoke, a few thousand?
A handful went out of their way to shout abuse at our manager in public after the game.
Doesn't sound that typical.

[Özim]

That's exactly right. Different rules because it's Wenger. What bit about that don't you get? The Utd fans quite rightly called out the minority shitheaps who were slagging Fergie too. Different rules because it was Fergie and anyone who can't figure out why has been asleep for decades.

Fergie had consistent success at Man U all the time he was there other than the 1st few years when he did get abuse I'm sure. Wenger on the other hand, we'll in 10 years he's managed one trophy, an FA Cup last season and considering how patronising and belittling he has been towards everyone, including the fans I don't feel the need to defend him.

Like I said he got a few angry words from some unruly fans, happens all the time and I don't see the big deal, he gets paid handsomely to put up with sh*t like this, some fans will do this, it's part and parcel of the game.

[Özim]

Are you seriously comparing Wenger to a player who ditched the club so he could go and sit on a bench for more cash? Sagna IS a cunt. Even so, I probably won't follow him home tonight screaming at him. That's because I'm not a stupid cunt like the stupid cunts who were baying at the guy who didn't jump ship and has been with this club for years, turning it into one of the premier clubs in Europe. And you're comparing him to a greedy little mercenary shite? This isn't about moral high ground, it's about deeds.

and Wenger isn't moneygrabbing? Why is he getting 8 million a year and happy to get 4th then? If it wasn't about money, at least partially he'd be more committed to winning and risking his job by living outside his comfort zone.

As it stands he doesn't take too many risks and keeps his 8 million a year job doing whatever he wants and answering to noone, all he has to put up with is a few choice words from a small minority, not too bad really.

IMO a man not motivated by money doesn't sit on his arse and accept 4th place, he does all he can to get 1st. There's no defending him anymore, he's part and parcel of the problem his goal is financial in all senses, he makes the club money and he gets his pay day for another year, everyone wins (except the fans who cough up all that money that pays him of course).

[Globalgunner]

I don't know how many went up to Stoke, a few thousand?
A handful went out of their way to shout abuse at our manager in public after the game.
Doesn't sound that typical.

judge them in May. They may well be the majority by then

[Letters]

judge them in May. They may well be the majority by then

I doubt it. For one thing, things might actually look better in May. HCZ pointed out that 2 years ago we were in this exact same position at this stage, more or less, before we got it together, went on a run and finished 4th (and this year we don't really need to go on much of a run to do so as everyone else is so hopeless too).
Secondly, I'd say after Stoke things were pretty much at their peak of frustration, and away fans tend to be the more vocal support. Even then only a tiny minority of knuckle draggers thought it would be OK to go to the station to shout abuse.

[Globalgunner]

I doubt it. For one thing, things might actually look better in May. HCZ pointed out that 2 years ago we were in this exact same position at this stage, more or less, before we got it together, went on a run and finished 4th (and this year we don't really need to go on much of a run to do so as everyone else is so hopeless too).
Secondly, I'd say after Stoke things were pretty much at their peak of frustration, and away fans tend to be the more vocal support. Even then only a tiny minority of knuckle draggers thought it would be OK to go to the station to shout abuse.

Like many have said before. Nothing wrong with voicing their displeasure at the way things are going. This is still a free country. There were police in proximity who say nothing wrong with their behaviour. Heroes the lot of them

[Letters]

"BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! YOU'RE A C***"

isn't "voicing your displeasure"...

[Power n Glory]

Are you seriously comparing Wenger to a player who ditched the club so he could go and sit on a bench for more cash? Sagna IS a cunt. Even so, I probably won't follow him home tonight screaming at him. That's because I'm not a stupid cunt like the stupid cunts who were baying at the guy who didn't jump ship and has been with this club for years, turning it into one of the premier clubs in Europe. And you're comparing him to a greedy little mercenary shite? This isn't about moral high ground, it's about deeds.

That might have gone over your head. I'm not comparing Wenger with Sagna. I'm comparing the reaction and that mob like mentality. Also, Wenger wasn't followed home the team just happened to be at the same train station as the away fans.


That same attitude you were aping a few months back has arrived at Wenger’s door step. What do you expect when its common to encourage this sort of thing in football?

It's a thin line. It's disgusting behaviour now that Wenger's involved but it's encouraged with a former player, refs, rival teams..etc. That's why I'm not going OTT with this incident. If we had just taken a beating from City and the away fans had just saw Sagna boarding a train, I wouldn't be surprised to see the same sort of reaction Wenger just received. And most people would be fine with that. Yes, he’s a City player now and is getting paid more but he was still a player that served us well. If that's how fans are conditioned to react when they feel someone has done wrong to the club, what do you expect when there are such strong feelings towards Wenger and the last 9 years? Respect goes out the window in football. It’s not right and it shouldn’t happen but all logic goes out of the window with some fans.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think there are also different rules because of where it was. Inside a ground in the heat of the moment we can all get frustrated.
Getting to the train station to abuse them after the fact and shout at one of our players to leave... :doh:

It was wrong on every level. There's not a single legitimate argument that has been made that justifies the behaviour of those non-fans.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well no the police aren't going to say anything other than that because their behaviour isn't illegal and despite my contempt for it I don't believe it should be

I don't believe my comparison of our form feeds into the "judge me in may" remark, my opinions are fluid but one thing I stand by is that I believe we will finish in the top four. However we can totally dismiss the notion that this is acceptable, I compared our season to two seasons ago to make the point that nothing ever changes, things may seem particularly bad but only to those with short memories. It's as bad as its always been, and if Wenger is saying judge us in May thinking that finishing in the top four will mollify those disillusioned with his stewardship then I think he may be surprised by how people do judge him in May.
But of course what he means is my employers will judge me in May, and they think top four is acceptable and that's what we will get.

[Niall_Quinn]

Fergie had consistent success at Man U all the time he was there other than the 1st few years when he did get abuse I'm sure. Wenger on the other hand, we'll in 10 years he's managed one trophy, an FA Cup last season and considering how patronising and belittling he has been towards everyone, including the fans I don't feel the need to defend him.

Like I said he got a few angry words from some unruly fans, happens all the time and I don't see the big deal, he gets paid handsomely to put up with sh*t like this, some fans will do this, it's part and parcel of the game.

I'm not defending Wenger, I'm criticising the cowards who were shouting abuse. Not just at Wenger, but also the shit they were throwing at Campbell. "Get out while you can?" What sort of a "fan" is that, exactly?

What would be great is to get these loud mouths, isolate them from the crowd they hide in and put them in a room with Wenger. Line the players up behind him. Then listen carefully in case you can detect a faint squeak.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If we had just taken a beating from City and the away fans had just saw Sagna boarding a train, I wouldn't be surprised to see the same sort of reaction Wenger just received. And most people would be fine with that.

I'm obviously not most people because I wouldn't be ok with that. I wasn't ok with our fans babyish behaviour throwing things at Adebayor even when he scored and ran over to the away end. Adebayor is a dick (again Not something I'd say to his face) but some prat even threw a mobile at him.

I remember going up to Goodison Park years ago, traipsing back to the club fan coach in horrible hail stone weather, losing the game in injury time to Andy Johnson goal after failing to clear a corner. Fair to say pissed off was an understatement, and then Everton fans walked past gloating and kissing their badges at me and other Arsenal fans on the coach. Whilst some of my fellow passengers acted like troglodytes banging on the window and screaming "fuck off" I just smiled and waved at them.

[Niall_Quinn]

and Wenger isn't moneygrabbing? Why is he getting 8 million a year and happy to get 4th then? If it wasn't about money, at least partially he'd be more committed to winning and risking his job by living outside his comfort zone.

As it stands he doesn't take too many risks and keeps his 8 million a year job doing whatever he wants and answering to noone, all he has to put up with is a few choice words from a small minority, not too bad really.

IMO a man not motivated by money doesn't sit on his arse and accept 4th place, he does all he can to get 1st. There's no defending him anymore, he's part and parcel of the problem his goal is financial in all senses, he makes the club money and he gets his pay day for another year, everyone wins (except the fans who cough up all that money that pays him of course).

Oh come off it. At least base your assumptions in the real world. First up you don't "accept" 4th in this league. You fight for it. Us finishing 4th all the time might be boring as hell and it's fair enough to argue we don't maximise the potential to do better. But 4th isn't handed to us on a plate so stop with the settling for 4th stuff. Through the faults of the team and the manager we aren't able to finish higher, but that's a different thing to "accepting" 4th. And nobody (except that Ty guy) is defending Wenger any more. Everyone has spoken openly about his deficiencies and almost everyone now accepts it's time for him to leave. But there's this weird condition imposed by certain fans that insists anything bar total condemnation of the man is in fact wholehearted support. It's silly.

[Xhaka Can’t]

:lol: Literally everyone thought we were punching above our weight. Pretty much no-one thought, deep down, we had enough to sustain it. Don't act like Zim's some visionary who saw that coming when no-one else did. If he was hounded it was for his relentless negativity rather than actually enjoying the fact that we were doing well. But we weren't crap last year, we got our most points since 2008.



Bloody hell, fy. Get a grip. Literally 6 months ago he was holding the FA Cup aloft.
Since then things have gone to pot but raping women and children? What the hell is wrong with you? You're a grown up. You're getting married. There are more important things in life than whether Arsenal win football matches or not. I can understand Wenger getting some stick in the ground when passions are running high but this wasn't in the ground, it was way after the game. There is literally nothing 'manly' about going to the station to scream abuse at someone, especially someone who you know is unable to respond (not that such knuckle-dragging behaviour deserves a response). They're the actions of thugs and cowards.



So other clubs have knuckle draggers too. That makes it all OK then. Years ago I remember dad and me having a conversation about corruption in the UK parliament and I said "it's far worse in Italy". He said "compare youself with the best, not the worst...". I am not going to base my standards on knuckle draggers at other clubs. Especially not Chelsea. I've been on Tube trains with Chelsea fans shouting racist abuse at other passengers, it made me embarrassed to be a football fan. But hey, I should just "man up", that's how football fans behave, it's fine. Right? Stoke fans boo Ramsey for having the cheek to not be ever so pleased that some thug who puports to be a professional football player snapped his leg in two. Spurs fans repeatedly call Wenger a paedo - a horrible accusation with no basis. But it's fine, it's just what football fans do. No, it's what idiots do. I'm not an idiot, I'm not going to join in with that sort of nonsense or condone those who do it.
Brilliant post!

[Power n Glory]

I'm obviously not most people because I wouldn't be ok with that. I wasn't ok with our fans babyish behaviour throwing things at Adebayor even when he scored and ran over to the away end. Adebayor is a dick (again Not something I'd say to his face) but some prat even threw a mobile at him.

I remember going up to Goodison Park years ago, traipsing back to the club fan coach in horrible hail stone weather, losing the game in injury time to Andy Johnson goal after failing to clear a corner. Fair to say pissed off was an understatement, and then Everton fans walked past gloating and kissing their badges at me and other Arsenal fans on the coach. Whilst some of my fellow passengers acted like troglodytes banging on the window and screaming "fuck off" I just smiled and waved at them.

Yeah, I’m taking you out of the equation on that one.

I thought that Ade slide was funny. He’s a dick for running all that way to wind up the fans but the fans are silly to get wound up by it. It’s like someone just rattled their cage. :lol: It’s a ridiculous sport really. We really do lose it in the heat of the moment.

[Letters]

Well no the police aren't going to say anything other than that because their behaviour isn't illegal and despite my contempt for it I don't believe it should be

I don't believe my comparison of our form feeds into the "judge me in may" remark, my opinions are fluid but one thing I stand by is that I believe we will finish in the top four. However we can totally dismiss the notion that this is acceptable, I compared our season to two seasons ago to make the point that nothing ever changes, things may seem particularly bad but only to those with short memories. It's as bad as its always been, and if Wenger is saying judge us in May thinking that finishing in the top four will mollify those disillusioned with his stewardship then I think he may be surprised by how people do judge him in May.
But of course what he means is my employers will judge me in May, and they think top four is acceptable and that's what we will get.

What do you think is acceptable?

We're in a sport (well, we were, it's a business now) where financial clout and success are very highly correlated.
We have the 4th biggest budget so why isn't 4th acceptable? Do we have a right to expect better? Why?

To me what is unacceptable is that we're so much less than the sum of our parts and we're awful to watch. We should be much closer to Chelsea and City but with their resources it's always going to be difficult to unseat them. Not impossible, maybe, but had Chelsea and City not bought their way above us I reckon we'd have had a title or three over the last 10 years.

Arsenal fans seem to have developed a sense of entitlement (which they seem to have forgotten has only come about because of our early success under Wenger) which can come across as very spoilt brattish. I'd suggest they re-read Fever Pitch to remind themselves how crap we were for much of our modern history.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm obviously not most people because I wouldn't be ok with that. I wasn't ok with our fans babyish behaviour throwing things at Adebayor even when he scored and ran over to the away end. Adebayor is a dick (again Not something I'd say to his face) but some prat even threw a mobile at him.

I remember going up to Goodison Park years ago, traipsing back to the club fan coach in horrible hail stone weather, losing the game in injury time to Andy Johnson goal after failing to clear a corner. Fair to say pissed off was an understatement, and then Everton fans walked past gloating and kissing their badges at me and other Arsenal fans on the coach. Whilst some of my fellow passengers acted like troglodytes banging on the window and screaming "fuck off" I just smiled and waved at them.

I wouldn't be bothered waiting around in the first place whether we had won, lost or drawn. Never was one for queuing for a signature so I could prove I was in the presence of another person. When I was a kid I used to go to all ends to prove how "hard" I was - unless there was a genuine hardnut around in which case cowardice was the better part of valour. But we grow up - don't we? Expressions on forums are one thing. I don't think it will come as a shock to find out Sagna doesn't read GW. These message are for us, here. A place to let of steam and have a laugh. But of course when you meet a person face to face and provided he hasn't just pissed on your foot then it would take some level of idiocy to launch into a foul mouthed tirade. Easier when you are in a crowd and aren't likely to get punched in the face. But cowardice is no better than idiocy really.

Seriously though. How can anyone defend these so-called fans?

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think you'll find they are acting more like typical fans. BTW your thesaurus has holes in it
Typical fans. :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

Typical fans. :haha:

Not far off the mark in truth. Sing when we're winning, we only sing when we're winning.

[Dein-machine]

[QUOTE=Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie;434770]I'm obviously not most people because I wouldn't be ok with that. I wasn't ok with our fans babyish behaviour throwing things at Adebayor even when he scored and ran over to the away end. Adebayor is a dick (again Not something I'd say to his face) but some prat even threw a mobile at him.

That's where I lost it! - I've just got a Nexus 6 - its a proper brick, I won't miss the lanky Togan prick next time.

[Özim]

I'm not defending Wenger, I'm criticising the cowards who were shouting abuse. Not just at Wenger, but also the shit they were throwing at Campbell. "Get out while you can?" What sort of a "fan" is that, exactly?

What would be great is to get these loud mouths, isolate them from the crowd they hide in and put them in a room with Wenger. Line the players up behind him. Then listen carefully in case you can detect a faint squeak.

People will shout abuse, I don't agree with it (Wenger out is fine) but they do and always have, it happens all the time in football so this is not really anything sensational.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

What do you think is acceptable?

We're in a sport (well, we were, it's a business now) where financial clout and success are very highly correlated.
We have the 4th biggest budget so why isn't 4th acceptable? Do we have a right to expect better? Why?

To me what is unacceptable is that we're so much less than the sum of our parts and we're awful to watch. We should be much closer to Chelsea and City but with their resources it's always going to be difficult to unseat them. Not impossible, maybe, but had Chelsea and City not bought their way above us I reckon we'd have had a title or three over the last 10 years.

Arsenal fans seem to have developed a sense of entitlement (which they seem to have forgotten has only come about because of our early success under Wenger) which can come across as very spoilt brattish. I'd suggest they re-read Fever Pitch to remind themselves how crap we were for much of our modern history.

I'd rather not read Nick Hornby if its all the same to you

4th place for its own sake isn't enough and that's the problem

If you want to be positive not finishing lower than 4th is admirable but it means very little

4th is an average of where we are in terms of finances, it is not a holy grail. Having the 4th biggest finances doesn't rule out challenging for and winning the title.

I honestly think there would be less dissatisfaction if we had on a couple of occasion finished outside the top four, but had won the title just once in the period between 2005 and now.

There is debate about our finances as a result of moving to the Emirates, there is no debate now. I thought Chelsea would win the title because they have a better side than us and there is no shame admitting that, there is great shame in not making a fist of nipping at their heels all the way because our inability to play against certain teams, lack of physical and psychological strength in the team.
And then we are supposed to rejoice in coming from nowhere to claim 4th because we know that's the only thing the manager is under pressure to achieve.

[Özim]

Oh come off it. At least base your assumptions in the real world. First up you don't "accept" 4th in this league. You fight for it. Us finishing 4th all the time might be boring as hell and it's fair enough to argue we don't maximise the potential to do better. But 4th isn't handed to us on a plate so stop with the settling for 4th stuff. Through the faults of the team and the manager we aren't able to finish higher, but that's a different thing to "accepting" 4th. And nobody (except that Ty guy) is defending Wenger any more. Everyone has spoken openly about his deficiencies and almost everyone now accepts it's time for him to leave. But there's this weird condition imposed by certain fans that insists anything bar total condemnation of the man is in fact wholehearted support. It's silly.

It's accepting in a sense that he never gives us a hope of winning anything and in a sense that he hails it as some super achievement almost comparable to winning the PL or CL, it's laughable that a man can talk up his achievements so much that he believes that 4th place has become a big achievement that everyone should stand up and applaud.

He's got 4th place for x seasons and has been happy enough with it, that's settling for me.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

[QUOTE=Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie;434770]I'm obviously not most people because I wouldn't be ok with that. I wasn't ok with our fans babyish behaviour throwing things at Adebayor even when he scored and ran over to the away end. Adebayor is a dick (again Not something I'd say to his face) but some prat even threw a mobile at him.

That's where I lost it! - I've just got a Nexus 6 - its a proper brick, I won't miss the lanky Togan prick next time.

More money than sense

If you're so intent on injuring someone with a communication device why not a Nokia 3310

No matter how many times I hurled the bastard at a wall after getting off the phone with my girlfriend at the time, it would remain unscathed

Wasnt Roy Batty a Nexus 6?

[Özim]

We're the most predictable club in the country, nothing ever changes, it's really really boring. In the CL we know what will happen, last 16 and we're out, we may as well not bother playing.

In the league it's a battle for 4th and we snatch it at the death, that's about it.

Every season it's the same, the same problems with injuries, the same collapses in games that we seem to excel at, the same defeats against the big boys etc etc

Everything stays the same and after 10 years it's got very very tedious indeed, Wenger is the most boring manager in football IMO.

[Letters]

It's accepting in a sense that he never gives us a hope of winning anything.
I can't even remember the last time we won anything :(

[selassie]

I'd rather not read Nick Hornby if its all the same to you

4th place for its own sake isn't enough and that's the problem

If you want to be positive not finishing lower than 4th is admirable but it means very little

4th is an average of where we are in terms of finances, it is not a holy grail. Having the 4th biggest finances doesn't rule out challenging for and winning the title.

I honestly think there would be less dissatisfaction if we had on a couple of occasion finished outside the top four, but had won the title just once in the period between 2005 and now.

There is debate about our finances as a result of moving to the Emirates, there is no debate now. I thought Chelsea would win the title because they have a better side than us and there is no shame admitting that, there is great shame in not making a fist of nipping at their heels all the way because our inability to play against certain teams, lack of physical and psychological strength in the team.
And then we are supposed to rejoice in coming from nowhere to claim 4th because we know that's the only thing the manager is under pressure to achieve.

:gp:

[selassie]

I can't even remember the last time we won anything :(

We won the Cup but I'd bet my house on it that we will never win the league again or CL with Wenger in charge.

[Letters]

We won the Cup but I'd bet my house on it that we will never win the league again or CL with Wenger in charge.

I agree.
But I don't think we'll win it with anyone else in charge right now. Well, not the league.
The CL...I guess you've always got a chance in a cup, but not the way we are right now.

[fakeyank]

I agree with that, actually. This sort of stuff does go on in football. But I don't think it's 'snobbish' on an individual basis to think it's a bit OTT and shouldn't go on.
And I certainly wouldn't applaud such actions from afar as some have been doing on this thread.

I think very few people are applauding such actions.. this is where many are getting it wrong. We are saying these actions are normal in football.. whats the big deal?! People are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Its like saying I wont go to a football match because people cuss at the games!

Being a celebrity is a two way street.. you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Wenger is in a very public job, a job that millions around the world have an opinion about. So when his team perform like the biggest idiots on earth year after year, you do not expect some 'booing' and naming calling?! I just cannot believe the travesty this is being made out to! It is astonishing the level of protection our manager gets from the media and some fans.

[Globalgunner]

I can't even remember the last time we won anything :(

its been 6 months we only have another 8 1/2 years to wait.

[selassie]

I agree.
But I don't think we'll win it with anyone else in charge right now. Well, not the league.
The CL...I guess you've always got a chance in a cup, but not the way we are right now.

Oh I dunno, I think we'd stand a good chance with Mourinho in charge, I think we'd strongly challenge for the title TBH.

Just think of what we would be like with him in charge, he'd actually resolve our problem areas ;)

Wenger isn't the worst manager in the world but he has many flaws, someone a little more tactically astute would fair better in the job.

I personally feel CL would be beyond us with pretty much anybody in charge, the likes of Bayern, Barca & Real are far superior, in fact we are way down the pack in CL these days IMO.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

its been 6 months we only have another 8 1/2 years to wait.

Hmm so either you think Wenger will still be here in 2023 (at 73/74?)

Or you think his successor will be shit

[Globalgunner]

I think very few people are applauding such actions.. this is where many are getting it wrong. We are saying these actions are normal in football.. whats the big deal?! People are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Its like saying I wont go to a football match because people cuss at the games!

Being a celebrity is a two way street.. you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Wenger is in a very public job, a job that millions around the world have an opinion about. So when his team perform like the biggest idiots on earth year after year, you do not expect some 'booing' and naming calling?! I just cannot believe the travesty this is being made out to! It is astonishing the level of protection our manager gets from the media and some fans.

There are a lot of people who like being upset. Little things like a poor old man just trying to get on a train barracked after being mistaken for a top line manager really get their juices flowing.

[Globalgunner]

Hmm so either you think Wenger will still be here in 2023 (at 73/74?)

Or you think his successor will be shit

If I follow your own thinking, what I think is immaterial. What is important is what the board thinks. They may decide he can keep us coming 4th for another 10 years yet

[Dein-machine]

[QUOTE=Dein-machine;434778]

More money than sense

If you're so intent on injuring someone with a communication device why not a Nokia 3310

No matter how many times I hurled the bastard at a wall after getting off the phone with my girlfriend at the time, it would remain unscathed

Wasnt Roy Batty a Nexus 6?

Just googled it - he bloody well was you know, just not sure how impressed I am with that really!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

[QUOTE=Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie;434783]

Just googled it - he bloody well was you know, just not sure how impressed I am with that really!

Well he's seen things you people wouldn't believe

Not only that but he has excellent network and 4G coverage

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If I follow your own thinking, what I think is immaterial. What is important is what the board thinks. They may decide he can keep us coming 4th for another 10 years yet

Don't, I've just heard 50s crooners singing Xmas songs on the radio so I'm already depressed enough

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think very few people are applauding such actions.. this is where many are getting it wrong. We are saying these actions are normal in football.. whats the big deal?! People are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Its like saying I wont go to a football match because people cuss at the games!

Being a celebrity is a two way street.. you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Wenger is in a very public job, a job that millions around the world have an opinion about. So when his team perform like the biggest idiots on earth year after year, you do not expect some 'booing' and naming calling?! I just cannot believe the travesty this is being made out to! It is astonishing the level of protection our manager gets from the media and some fans.
People in this thread were applauding the morons in the video.

And you goodposted one of them doing so.

[fakeyank]

People in this thread were applauding the morons in the video.

And you goodposted one of them doing so.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3167&page=22&p=434630&viewfull=1#post434630

I am not sure if this is the one you are talking about.. but even here, the text I quoted is a text where I said that nothing happened that does not happen in a football environment. Nowhere can I see us (GG and me) mentioning that the guys booing should be applauded. Its a completely normal reaction in sports... once again, I think this is being blown out of proportion.

I bet if you read "Manager abused by fans" as a headline, you wouldnt bat much of an eyelid, because thats what happens all the time. What is eye grabbing to many (not to me) is "Arsene Wenger abused by fans". Why the difference?

[Letters]

if booing and calling him a cunt makes him rethink his ability as a manager, then I am all for it.
Is that not applauding their actions?
:shrug:

[Power n Glory]

Seriously, how do you all expect Wenger’s reign to end? There was always going to be a day where the fans grew restless and powerless. It’s partly down his stubbornness and refusing to listen to what the fans have to say. It’s also down to the Board taking no action at all and that just frustrates the fans even more. This backlash was bound to happen after 9 years.

[fakeyank]

Is that not applauding their actions?
:shrug:

There is a mention of the word "IF". IF there is no other way for him to leave the club and this is the only way he realizes how bad he is, then he will get it. Again, I am sure that was not my entire message (couldnt find it on here tbh), but here is another reply to you actually where I specifically mention that its unfortunate it has come to this, but I am sick and tired of the BS he spouts, and has been spouting for ages.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3167&page=11&p=434502&viewfull=1#post434502

[fakeyank]

Seriously, how do you all expect Wenger’s reign to end? There was always going to be a day where the fans grew restless and powerless. It’s partly down his stubbornness and refusing to listen to what the fans have to say. It’s also down to the Board taking no action at all and that just frustrates the fans even more. This backlash was bound to happen after 9 years.
:gp:

Since the 8-2 defeat, we have had some of the worst defeats as a football team. There is bound to be frustration. I was frustrated 5 years back but now there are more people and it'll only get worse. Wenger is only going to go out one way- The Ugly way. He has laid his bed and he must lay in it too.

Pretty unfortunate but I could care less how he leaves.. be it because the fans cussed at him or out of his own good will. I am just sick of his sight.

[Power n Glory]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/defiant-arsene-wenger-arsenal-fans-4771304

I didn't even realise Wenger responded. He's unfazed as usual and knows it comes with the territory. Relax people.

[Power n Glory]

:gp:

Since the 8-2 defeat, we have had some of the worst defeats as a football team. There is bound to be frustration. I was frustrated 5 years back but now there are more people and it'll only get worse. Wenger is only going to go out one way- The Ugly way. He has laid his bed and he must lay in it too.

Pretty unfortunate but I could care less how he leaves.. be it because the fans cussed at him or out of his own good will. I am just sick of his sight.

And you're not the only one to say you just want him gone and how he goes doesn't matter anymore.

I can't imagine things getting any better after this incident unless we make a real go of things this season. Wenger knows it's a results business more than anyone else. If he wants to leave on a high then he knows what to do.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/defiant-arsene-wenger-arsenal-fans-4771304

I didn't even realise Wenger responded. He's unfazed as usual and knows it comes with the territory. Relax people.

Again beside the point
I can only speak for myself, it's not like I want them lynched
I'm just calling them out in my view what they did was a disgrace and they are a bunch of dicks

It's not really any more complicated than that

[Globalgunner]

The next away game you should follow them to the station and give them a right talking to. That'll learn them.

[Power n Glory]

Again beside the point
I can only speak for myself, it's not like I want them lynched
I'm just calling them out in my view what they did was a disgrace and they are a bunch of dicks

It's not really any more complicated than that

I think you took it a bit far with the 'swearing in public' argument and mentioning Wenger's age. Was it that shocking to you considering the sport we follow?

[Niall_Quinn]

I could care less

This has to be the worst aspect of America, which is remarkable given the long list of lamentable aspects. It's the most horrible abuse of the English language ever in the history of the universe to occur since the last American said anything at all.

"I could care less" - It means you at least care a little bit FFS! WTF!!!!?

If Americans are determined to contract the language to the extreme then why not just say Ugh, Ugh, Ugh in response to everything? There's the added bonus of such a response being slightly more highbrow than the typical American utterance. Although I accept some complexity should still be permitted, such as the liberal use of the word "awesome" without which it wouldn't be American at all.

[Globalgunner]

This has to be the worst aspect of America, which is remarkable given the long list of lamentable aspects. It's the most horrible abuse of the English language ever in the history of the universe to occur since the last American said anything at all.

"I could care less" - It means you at least care a little bit FFS! WTF!!!!?

If Americans are determined to contract the language to the extreme then why not just say Ugh, Ugh, Ugh in response to everything? There's the added bonus of such a response being slightly more highbrow than the typical American utterance. Although I accept some complexity should still be permitted, such as the liberal use of the word "awesome" without which it wouldn't be American at all.
Wrong thread....this needs to be in the Non Arsenal area

[Power n Glory]

That's petty, NQ.

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3167&page=22&p=434630&viewfull=1#post434630

I am not sure if this is the one you are talking about.. but even here, the text I quoted is a text where I said that nothing happened that does not happen in a football environment. Nowhere can I see us (GG and me) mentioning that the guys booing should be applauded. Its a completely normal reaction in sports... once again, I think this is being blown out of proportion.

I bet if you read "Manager abused by fans" as a headline, you wouldnt bat much of an eyelid, because thats what happens all the time. What is eye grabbing to many (not to me) is "Arsene Wenger abused by fans". Why the difference?

That wasn't it.

And I don't give a toss about what other managers/teams/fans get up to and I'm not about to put up another explanation of what is wrong with that video.

Letters has put it brilliantly.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The next away game you should follow them to the station and give them a right talking to. That'll learn them.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/55982572.jpg

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Most successful manager in our history? Only if our history started in the 90s. Trophy haul only slightly better than GG. Never won a European title. Presided over the most humiliating tonkings in our history. Never retained a championship. Has only won 1 cup in 10 years. Yes that is a CV you could easily take to Madrid Barca or Bayern.

He is not some septuagenarian being wheeled around in a chair

i find it ironic that the same people who go apoplectic at the mere mention of Chelsea and City, are screaming class. Oh i get it its only classless when you do it to your own fans. Like our former chairman Hill -wood and his condescending comments towards our own fans.

This is football chaps not hockey or badminton. Calling him clueless or incompetent to his face is only stating Gods own truth.

Excellent post.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Excellent post.

It is a shit post, because back in his day when on top of his game, he gave us the best football we're ever going to see in our lives. It was a fucking privilege to get watching his teams.

Those days are long gone and they aren't coming back. I want him gone, but rewriting history and cherry-picking only the setbacks during what was a magnificent period of our history just to win the internet is fucking pathetic.

[fakeyank]

This has to be the worst aspect of America, which is remarkable given the long list of lamentable aspects. It's the most horrible abuse of the English language ever in the history of the universe to occur since the last American said anything at all.

"I could care less" - It means you at least care a little bit FFS! WTF!!!!?

If Americans are determined to contract the language to the extreme then why not just say Ugh, Ugh, Ugh in response to everything? There's the added bonus of such a response being slightly more highbrow than the typical American utterance. Although I accept some complexity should still be permitted, such as the liberal use of the word "awesome" without which it wouldn't be American at all.

Ok.

[Letters]

Letters has put it brilliantly.

I knew those monkeys and typewriters would come good in the end :cool:

[Niall_Quinn]

That's petty, NQ.

You think I should have screamed CUNT?

[Xhaka Can’t]

You think I should have screamed CUNT?

A typical true Gooner would.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I knew those monkeys and typewriters would come good in the end :cool:

Seriously mate, you nailed it.

[Dein-machine]

Is Bobby Brown Nose after free subscription?

[GP]

To GW?

Have you been paying??

[LDG]

http://www.charmedcrafttalk.com/forum/images/smilies/PANIK2.gif

[Letters]

To GW?

Have you been paying??

Shh :ninja:

[Mr. Lahey]

I don't know how many went up to Stoke, a few thousand?
A handfulwent out of their way to shout abuse at our manager in public after the game.
Doesn't sound that typical.

and there will always be a few in every situation and this is the reason why it shouldn't be looked at as a big deal.

booing and heckling is fine IMO - the man earns a massive living - he's a big boy who understands that his position is always under criticism.

im not a fan of the cussing out in public though, just my opinion. once you start screaming and cursing you look like a complete raging moron who's lost it. those guys were fools for using that language to another person, in public, in that manner. i find it odd that there are some who find that acceptable behavior on here.

[Xhaka Can’t]

When you plant shit seeds, you get shit weeds.

[Mr. Lahey]

nice shit analogy there Bobby - the shit apple doesn't fall far from the shit tree. :good:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

You get much worse on a friday night in Liverpool.

Nothing to see here. Move on.