Match Reaction QPR 1-2 Arsenal

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger out.

[Marc Overmars]

Yay

[Injury Time]

Oh my god am I soooo looking forwards to Old Trafford now :scarf: :ilt:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Again we make things difficult for ourselves needlessly, Koscielny just needs to close down Austin and he's not getting a shot away


On the whole there were positives, luke warm first half....in the second half we dominated for the most part and if not for Green would have been 4-0 or 5-0 up before they got their consolation.

Ozil and Sanchez both played well today for me.

[Master Splinter]

We always struggle against these utter scrotes.

It should have been 0-4 before they scored and if the ref did his job properly, it could have been 0-6 and RPQ down to ten. Although WUMger still would have had a WUM up his sleeve to derail the routine win.

Bellerin was awlsome :bow:.

Coquelin solid again.

Everyone else sloppy and wasteful really.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Good win tbh.

We weren't great in the first half but we turned in up the second half and got the goals we richly deserved.

Should have put the game to bed though then and we would have had Kevin Friend done his job properly (Ozil getting manhandled in the box when about to score wtf?) and were it not for some silly decisions (Alexis before his goal wtf) and some amazing saves (Ozil hitting bar).

Need to see the Austin goal again but it seemed a bit of a worldie. Don't really blame Kos or Gibbs for that, though on initial viewing it looks like Ospina could have done better. Those things happen tbh and it made the last 10 mins nervy viewing.

Needed to win tonight at all costs because Liverpool are a good run of form and United are fluking wins under LVG, so I'm chuffed right now.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Bellerin and Coquelin easily MoTM btw.

Both were fucking amazing.

[fakeyank]

Shouldve brought on Theo for Ozil after our 2nd goal. Team looks unbalanced... not good omen with Utd away next. Season about to explode this Monday.

[Niall_Quinn]

Bellerin MOTM until he fucked it up on their goal.

Relied on individual brilliance again in the absence of anything coherent from our manager. How many times do we have to see the same match before he reacts? You could say, okay, but we're winning. True enough. But we can't keep pubbing it like this, eventually we'll come a cropper. Let me guess, in the next big match.

Giroud was awful today. He scored, you would expect any striker to toe poke a sitter, but otherwise for all his running he was never near the ball. He doesn't open up space when we have the ball, he just stands around and demands the ball to feet. Neither does he challenge for headers in the box. It wouldn't hurt to give Welbeck a chance for a few games. At least he puts pressure on the defence.

Worrying performance from Gabriel before he had to go off for his début in the medical centre.

Ref and linesmen astonishingly bad, which is normal. The penalty incident was a joke. If the ref can't see it then what is the linesman doing?

[Letters]

Good result. A game we should be winning, but a banana skin we might have slipped on.
QPR haven't had a thumping at home all season, I don't know why anyone thought we'd spank then.
Other results didn't go for us so very important result.

[Munchies]

Ozil :bow:

[Master Splinter]

Same unbalanced team against United then?

They're probably as bad as RPQ. It's just that they have the refs, linesmen, Satan and the world's biggest cheat in Rooney on their side. So we're doomed basically.

If only WUMger would play the right team for the opponent and occasion for once.

Bellerin, Coquelin and Cazorla dropped for Flamini, Martinez and Welbeck?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Again we make things difficult for ourselves needlessly, Koscielny just needs to close down Austin and he's not getting a shot away


On the whole there were positives, luke warm first half....in the second half we dominated for the most part and if not for Green would have been 4-0 or 5-0 up before they got their consolation.

Ozil and Sanchez both played well today for me.

We don't pay the opposition any mind in the build up to the games so I don't expect Kosielny to have realised that somebody called Austin is at all a decent player.....

Glad we won though and nice to hear that Sanchez scored.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I genuinely forgot we were playing tonight.

Just saw the score despite being on GW for ten minutes reading posts on another thread.

[Niall_Quinn]

I genuinely forgot we were playing tonight.

Just saw the score despite being on GW for ten minutes reading posts on another thread.

Carbon copy of the Palace match except the ref was especially awful. Also a carbon copy of the match before that and the one before that.

And the one before that.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Good result. A game we should be winning, but a banana skin we might have slipped on.
QPR haven't had a thumping at home all season, I don't know why anyone thought we'd spank then.
.

I did.

Then forgot we were playing.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Carbon copy of the Palace match except the ref was especially awful. Also a carbon copy of the match before that and the one before that.

And the one before that.

Nah, we were a lot more dominant in this match compared to the Palace one and really should have been out of sight were it not for the factors which went against us. Mind you that could just be because Palace are a much better team than QPR.

Only similarity IMO was the scoreline and the fact we had to hold on at the end (which is a good skill in itself).

[Niall_Quinn]

Bizarre ratings from the hacks, proving once again they don't actually watch the matches.

Arsenal (4-2-3-1): Ospina 6; Bellerin 6.5, Mertesacker 6, Gabriel 6.5 (Koscielny 36, 6), Gibbs 6.5; Cazorla 7, Coquelin 6.5; Rosicky 6.5, Ozil 6 (Welbeck 94), Sanchez 6; Giroud 7.5.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nah, we were a lot more dominant in this match compared to the Palace one and really should have been out of sight were it not for the factors which went against us. Mind you that could just be because Palace are a much better team than QPR.

Only similarity IMO was the scoreline and the fact we had to hold on at the end (which is a good skill in itself).

Dominant or not, in all our recent games we have played disorganised and sloppy football, the sort that would never have been seen at Highbury. Basic stuff, passing, shooting, crossing, tackling, pure garbage in the main with the exception of short periods where we start playing. It's lazy and unfocused stuff and as far as I'm concerned the manager is entirely to blame. Wenger's standards are too low. We could do better than 4th, he settles for it. We could play at a higher level and for longer periods, he settles for less. Yes we are winning, yes we are third. Utd are a point behind and total shit playing the sort of football Ferguson would have flailed them for. Nicking points against teams that cost a fraction of ours is not impressive, even if we nick the points on a consistent basis. We're damn lucky Alexis said yes, credit to Wenger for that. Without the extra level he has brought to our performances can you imagine what a shit season this would have been so far. How long can Wenger be allowed to get away with this standard of football?

[Gooner23]

Important win. The game won't be remembered.

This United side are utter garbage, worse than Moyes' team last year. We really should beat them but they will probably pub a 1-0. Rooney dive for a pel. Fellaini to elbow all 11 of our players.

[Power n Glory]

Dominant or not, in all our recent games we have played disorganised and sloppy football, the sort that would never have been seen at Highbury. Basic stuff, passing, shooting, crossing, tackling, pure garbage in the main with the exception of short periods where we start playing. It's lazy and unfocused stuff and as far as I'm concerned the manager is entirely to blame. Wenger's standards are too low. We could do better than 4th, he settles for it. We could play at a higher level and for longer periods, he settles for less. Yes we are winning, yes we are third. Utd are a point behind and total shit playing the sort of football Ferguson would have flailed them for. Nicking points against teams that cost a fraction of ours is not impressive, even if we nick the points on a consistent basis. We're damn lucky Alexis said yes, credit to Wenger for that. Without the extra level he has brought to our performances can you imagine what a shit season this would have been so far. How long can Wenger be allowed to get away with this standard of football?

We won though! Brat!

[Letters]

Only saw the highlights but it looked like a pretty good 2nd half performance. A thumping in all but scoreline - and as I said no-one has actually thumped them there this year. Their biggest home defeat in the league has been 2-0.

If you're going to compare us to the Invincibles then prepare for a lifetime of disappointment, it's never going to be that good again. We should be better than we are but we are now picking up, we've won 9 out of the last 11 league games. We need to start winning the important ones - in the league they're all important but Monday's result will be telling.

[Niall_Quinn]

Important win. The game won't be remembered.

This United side are utter garbage, worse than Moyes' team last year. We really should beat them but they will probably pub a 1-0. Rooney dive for a pel. Fellaini to elbow all 11 of our players.

Important win - agreed.
The game won't be remembered - shame, but true.
We really should beat Utd - and that's the key point. If we were genuinely playing good football then there wouldn't be a question mark at all. Are the 3 points against QPR a measure of building progression that will culminate in some sort of achievement, or are they points towards another 4th place finish and glorious (predictable) failure when it counts?

[GP]

Good win.

[Niall_Quinn]

Only saw the highlights but it looked like a pretty good 2nd half performance. A thumping in all but scoreline - and as I said no-one has actually thumped them there this year. Their biggest home defeat in the league has been 2-0.

If you're going to compare us to the Invincibles then prepare for a lifetime of disappointment, it's never going to be that good again. We should be better than we are but we are now picking up, we've won 9 out of the last 11 league games. We need to start winning the important ones - in the league they're all important but Monday's result will be telling.

I say, "Basic stuff, passing, shooting, crossing, tackling, pure garbage in the main with the exception of short periods where we start playing."

You say, "If you're going to compare us to the Invincibles then prepare for a lifetime of disappointment, it's never going to be that good again."

Yes, we absolutely must start winning the important ones. That's why I'm not salivating over another serving of bread and butter. We got 3 points but 3 points towards what? I guess it comes down to belief. After a decade of the same shit happening over and over, where does the individual fan stand in terms of belief. I'm at the pie in the sky stage, where are you?

[selassie]

important win

[Xhaka Can’t]

I missed last nights game. In fact I've missed a load of games now, and I really don't give a shit.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Our record in 2015 has been title winning NQ. All it needs is a consistent application across an entire season and we should be capable of putting in a credible title challenge next year.

As for bad performances, even the invincible team ground out 2 - 1's and 2 - 0's when needed. It wasn't always champagne swash buckling football from them. Besides, we've had moments of sublime football now like the 5 - 0 against Villa.

Also, whilst you may be correct in pointing out that the top clubs may not be as good as they once were, I do actually thing the rest of the league is a lot better and have caught up; consequentially (and I know it's a cliche) they aren't any easy games any more. And tbh, I prefer it this way instead of a league like Spain where it's basically a two horse race (too early to say if Athletico will last) and a matter of how many goals Barca and Madrid score against everyone else.

By the way any news on Chesney? Why was he dropped yesterday? Did Wenger think he was the one responsible for that white powder through his mailbox, when it was actually Zimm?

[Letters]

in all our recent games we have played disorganised and sloppy football, the sort that would never have been seen at Highbury.
Never?!

[Letters]

Our record in 2015 has been title winning NQ. All it needs is a consistent application across an entire season and we should be capable of putting in a credible title challenge next year.
The thing is we've never quite managed it across a whole season, well, not never, but not for ages. 2008 we were pretty close but the sequence of draws when Eduardo got his injury messed it up for us. Every other season we've either gone off like a train and faded or we've started poorly and picked up. I don't know if it's the perennial injuries but we never quite seem to manage to get it together and play well enough for a whole season to seriously challenge.

[Marc Overmars]

This should have been the year of a credible title challenge. After last seasons half baked but relatively good effort, a cup win and big money spent we should have been in a position of strength.

The fact that absolutely fuck all has changed is testament to what a stagnant rut Wenger has us in.

Get rid. Then maybe there will be a buzz around Arsenal again.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

The thing is we've never quite managed it across a whole season, well, not never, but not for ages. 2008 we were pretty close but the sequence of draws when Eduardo got his injury messed it up for us. Every other season we've either gone off like a train and faded or we've started poorly and picked up. I don't know if it's the perennial injuries but we never quite seem to manage to get it together and play well enough for a whole season to seriously challenge.

Well tbh I think this year was the year we should have really put in a run as our squad on paper is in the best shape it's been in for years. In previous seasons, we've always had the inkling we'd fall away because our squad depth wasn't up to par with the others but we've rectified that finally with our new and improved financial muscle. I mean our bench yesterday had four England internationals and our player of the season last year. Hasn't been this good since the invincible days tbh.

What's really screwed us over this season has been:

- The world cup and it's effect on player fatigue
- The influx of new players who (apart from Alexis) needed time to settle
- Having no CB cover
- The DM problem

As long as we get the much craved for DM this summer I'm actually quite confident we're finally capable of putting in a solid title challenge next year.

What makes NQ's post seem weird to me is that all teams have to grind out wins at time. Chelsea were awful yesterday, got an offside goal and were dominated by West Ham in the second half, could have had a penalty given against them. It was basically the same thing for United as well ....... yet the narrative is that Mourinho is a genius for scrapping out wins, yet we're lucky to get away with it again.

[Xhaka Can’t]

This should have been the year of a credible title challenge. After last seasons half baked but relatively good effort, a cup win and big money spent we should have been in a position of strength.

The fact that absolutely fuck all has changed is testament to what a stagnant rut Wenger has us in.

Get rid. Then maybe there will be a buzz around Arsenal again.
Excellent post.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm not knocking the idea of grinding out wins. I'm not judging things by the standards of the Invincibles either, that's for sure. We're a million miles away from that level. I want to see us play organised, competent and positive football on a consistent basis. If we do that it doesn't bother me whether we grind results out or waltz our way to victory. We aren't playing decent football though, except in random spurts.

Wenger doesn't seem to know what the starting eleven is, he seems more concerned about cramming individuals into the team even when they don't fit. An old accusation but still very much apparent. Injuries have yielded more coherent results than Wenger's tinkering. He admitted, Coquelin would be sold by now if fate hadn't intervened. That's a shocking revelation reminiscent of the way he lucked into Flamini. Look at how he's managed Chambers. Look at the way he dumps Monreal when the Spaniard finally strikes up a working understanding with Koscielny. There are many more weird and dodgy judgement calls that could be mentioned ranging from his often bizarre substitutions and the timing of them, his unwillingness to act when opposition managers make adjustments and turn the game on us, we know the list.

He shows no sign of change so can we expect the outcome to be different? We already know he has enough to get us into the Champions League every season. We're on course to do that again. Fine, I'm not complaining about that. But is that it? What's he going to do to push on? He has money now, he's brought in some good players, not knocking him for that either. So what's next? Where are the signs we are moving forward? Can anyone spot them or give a couple of examples?

So when we win against QPR or go on an unbeaten run, of course, great, we all want to see the team winning. But without any signs we are going beyond the customary top four finish then what's there to be excited or energised about? The only thing I can think of would be the quality of the football. If it's entertaining then perhaps we can just enjoy that and say the chavs and gypos are out of reach due to their financial muscle. Perhaps. I don't think that's true, I think we could challenge with a manager that got his shit together and started maximising the returns on the players we have in this squad. It'll be next year, it'll be next year, how long have we been hearing that?

Anyway, onward we go into the next false dawn. You know with this manager we are always 90 minutes away from catastrophe. We barrel through avoiding it most of the time but it's still there, waiting for the moment. And it's not like the odd fluke which any team can suffer, it's a consistent failure at the very top level, monotonous collapse when the big challenge arrives. This is the proviso attached to every result.

[fakeyank]

I'm not knocking the idea of grinding out wins. I'm not judging things by the standards of the Invincibles either, that's for sure. We're a million miles away from that level. I want to see us play organised, competent and positive football on a consistent basis. If we do that it doesn't bother me whether we grind results out or waltz our way to victory. We aren't playing decent football though, except in random spurts.

Wenger doesn't seem to know what the starting eleven is, he seems more concerned about cramming individuals into the team even when they don't fit. An old accusation but still very much apparent. Injuries have yielded more coherent results than Wenger's tinkering. He admitted, Coquelin would be sold by now if fate hadn't intervened. That's a shocking revelation reminiscent of the way he lucked into Flamini. Look at how he's managed Chambers. Look at the way he dumps Monreal when the Spaniard finally strikes up a working understanding with Koscielny. There are many more weird and dodgy judgement calls that could be mentioned ranging from his often bizarre substitutions and the timing of them, his unwillingness to act when opposition managers make adjustments and turn the game on us, we know the list.

He shows no sign of change so can we expect the outcome to be different? We already know he has enough to get us into the Champions League every season. We're on course to do that again. Fine, I'm not complaining about that. But is that it? What's he going to do to push on? He has money now, he's brought in some good players, not knocking him for that either. So what's next? Where are the signs we are moving forward? Can anyone spot them or give a couple of examples?

So when we win against QPR or go on an unbeaten run, of course, great, we all want to see the team winning. But without any signs we are going beyond the customary top four finish then what's there to be excited or energised about? The only thing I can think of would be the quality of the football. If it's entertaining then perhaps we can just enjoy that and say the chavs and gypos are out of reach due to their financial muscle. Perhaps. I don't think that's true, I think we could challenge with a manager that got his shit together and started maximising the returns on the players we have in this squad. It'll be next year, it'll be next year, how long have we been hearing that?

Anyway, onward we go into the next false dawn. You know with this manager we are always 90 minutes away from catastrophe. We barrel through avoiding it most of the time but it's still there, waiting for the moment. And it's not like the odd fluke which any team can suffer, it's a consistent failure at the very top level, monotonous collapse when the big challenge arrives. This is the proviso attached to every result.

:gp:

Brilliant post. We always go through a period of 10 wins out of 11 or 16 games unbeaten etc etc. OF course it leads to fuck all at the end of the season.

I really felt the City result was a turning point for us, more so than the FA Cup win. But we put that great win in the rears and have gone back to our mediocre best. There is nothing exciting about our manager (not in a good way at least). The 'vision' sold to us was that we'd be matching up to the European giants after the Emirates move. Heck, we can barely compete in the PL... Europe is a pipe dream with Wenger in charge.

[Power n Glory]

I missed last nights game. In fact I've missed a load of games now, and I really don't give a shit.

:gp:

[Power n Glory]

This should have been the year of a credible title challenge. After last seasons half baked but relatively good effort, a cup win and big money spent we should have been in a position of strength.

The fact that absolutely fuck all has changed is testament to what a stagnant rut Wenger has us in.

Get rid. Then maybe there will be a buzz around Arsenal again.

We had a serious chance last season. I knew Chelsea had already written their name on the title for this year. We should have capitalised on last season. So many of our rivals were in experiencing a major change whilst we looked the most stable. But we fucked it up. After seeing that shit last season, this season was predictable.

[fakeyank]

We had a serious chance last season. I knew Chelsea had already written their name on the title for this year. We should have capitalised on last season. So many of our rivals were in experiencing a major change whilst we looked the most stable. But we fucked it up. After seeing that shit last season, this season was predictable.

:gp:

Last year, we were top of the league and had to buy some half decent players in Jan and have a half decent plan to not get mauled by the big teams. We just had to keep it calm and do the basic things but we didnt. I remember the AW sympathizers saying that next season (currently this season) is when we will take off. The same statement we have been hearing for the last 5 or 6 years. We will hear the same thing from the same people come the end of May.

[Letters]

I remember the AW sympathizers saying that next season (currently this season) is when we will take off. The same statement we have been hearing for the last 5 or 6 years. We will hear the same thing from the same people come the end of May.

I think literally no one said we would 'take off' but we won the FA Cup and got the most points since 2008, any manager who did that would deserve a chance to build on it. This season has been a bit of a cock up but despite such a shaky start we're still 3rd and we're in the FA Cup quarter finals. Monday will tell us something about whether this team have learnt anything from the last few years. It has the capacity to be one of these games where we either don't turn up or do that thing we often do at Old Trafford where we outplay them but get beaten. I can take us losing up there so long as we turn up and get beaten by a good performance.

I think we pretty much all agree that we need to move on from Wenger but when he does leave he'll leave us in great shape. We'll have a good squad, and be in an excellent financial position. Wenger doesn't get the big bucks to 'do nothing', he is far more than just a football coach, he's involved with all aspects of the club. Arguably too involved but you can't compare his salary to other football coaches who don't have those responsibilities. We should have done better this season but we're only 4 points off money cheats City. Wenger has his flaws but so will the next guy, he's hardly the incompetent you make out.

[Heisenberg]

The problem with deserving a chance to build on those two things is that last season, despite ending well, and then this season have played out so much like the others in the second half of Wenger's reign. There've been so many false dawns that it becomes increasingly hard to see how we can break the cycle. Winning the cup is a start, sure, because it gets the trophy less tag off our backs, but we want to be challenging for and winning the league too. All this leaves me conflicted because I'm in awe of Wenger, for what he's done for this club - even in the lean years he oversaw the Emirates shift and will leave a platform for the future that simply wasn't there when he arrived, but at the same time I think the club ought to have in mind not just longer term plans but also contemporary ideas about the post.

[fakeyank]

Wenger has his flaws but so will the next guy, he's hardly the incompetent you make out.

He is incompetent as a football manager with the resources he has. With the continuity he has enjoyed, he should have done much better. I do agree that he will leave the club in a good position if he leaves at the end of this season. But there is no guarantee that will be the case if he keeps being stubborn and continues signing contract renewal after contract renewal.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Our record in 2015 has been title winning NQ. All it needs is a consistent application across an entire season and we should be capable of putting in a credible title challenge next year.

As for bad performances, even the invincible team ground out 2 - 1's and 2 - 0's when needed. It wasn't always champagne swash buckling football from them. Besides, we've had moments of sublime football now like the 5 - 0 against Villa.

Also, whilst you may be correct in pointing out that the top clubs may not be as good as they once were, I do actually thing the rest of the league is a lot better and have caught up; consequentially (and I know it's a cliche) they aren't any easy games any more. And tbh, I prefer it this way instead of a league like Spain where it's basically a two horse race (too early to say if Athletico will last) and a matter of how many goals Barca and Madrid score against everyone else.

By the way any news on Chesney? Why was he dropped yesterday? Did Wenger think he was the one responsible for that white powder through his mailbox, when it was actually Zimm?

I'm not sure if I prefer it this way but you are definitely correct in my opinion. The general level is better even if we are a shadow of former sides.

[Power n Glory]

I think literally no one said we would 'take off' but we won the FA Cup and got the most points since 2008, any manager who did that would deserve a chance to build on it. This season has been a bit of a cock up but despite such a shaky start we're still 3rd and we're in the FA Cup quarter finals. Monday will tell us something about whether this team have learnt anything from the last few years. It has the capacity to be one of these games where we either don't turn up or do that thing we often do at Old Trafford where we outplay them but get beaten. I can take us losing up there so long as we turn up and get beaten by a good performance.

I think we pretty much all agree that we need to move on from Wenger but when he does leave he'll leave us in great shape. We'll have a good squad, and be in an excellent financial position. Wenger doesn't get the big bucks to 'do nothing', he is far more than just a football coach, he's involved with all aspects of the club. Arguably too involved but you can't compare his salary to other football coaches who don't have those responsibilities. We should have done better this season but we're only 4 points off money cheats City. Wenger has his flaws but so will the next guy, he's hardly the incompetent you make out.

I'm growing more irritated by these sort of posts and the highlighted points as the years pass. Wenger's management of the club is frustrating but this sort of post drives me up the wall. Every year you set some sort of litmus test as if there will be a pinnacle point where 'all will become clear' after certain period or match. Monday's game won't tell us shit. We could easily beat Utd and lose to a lesser team in the next round or final. Are you that damn slow that you need one more game or example to see if this team has learnt anything? Jeez! As if you haven't had numerous examples, this season, last or any season since being at the Emirates.

That quote you used from Fakeyank has nothing to do with Wenger being incompetent or even mentions his salary. It's about posters like yourself that keep saying 'jam tomorrow' and kicking the can further down the road. Monday's game won't make a difference. We did a job on City and then fucked up against Spurs and Monaco. This team will always be inconsistent under Wenger and no single performance can prove he has his mojo back. That time has gone and I'm beyond the point of trying to measure where this team is at. Someone said something similar after the City game some weeks back. Something about the City game being great but the Spurs test will really show where we are as a team. So what did the Spurs game show? How did we not turn up for that game?

[Letters]

Monday's game is exactly the sort of game which people on here bemoan (with some justification) that we 'never' win. So I do see a win in this one would be significant.
Every team is inconsistent sometimes, that's not a valid criticism of any manager or team.
FY mentions his salary in every post via his signature and clearly regards him as incompetent which is balls - you don't finish top 4 every year with an incompetent manager, how many other managers have managed that with any consistency?

We need to move on from Wenger to get out of the endless Groundhog Day, but there seems to be a feeling that Wenger is such an incompetent buffoon that the next manager will clearly be better and we'll be sweeping all before us when he leaves. I think that's far too simplistic, while the money cheats around we'll always face an uphill battle to win the title and the next bloke will have other flaws. Some of the names bandied round to replace Wenger have not done well consistently. And if we do better after Wenger goes then it will be in no small part because of the squad and financial shape Wenger leaves us in. A bit of credit where it's due and respect for that wouldn't go amiss.

[Power n Glory]

:banghead: Come one, Letters! Stop repeating the same stuff about money bag teams and Wenger being incompetent and try to grasp what I'm saying. You're shifting the conversation to trivial shit that's irrelevant to this conversation. You took a quote from FY that didn't even mention anything about Wenger's salary or his successor and just ran off on a tangent.

It's very difficult to gauge anything from a victory on Monday because we can buckle in the next round with another one of those none performances. Just a few weeks back, some fans thought the penny had finally dropped after the City win only to see that undone with poor performances against Spurs and Monaco. It's the same way we thought more money or the FA Cup win would somehow kick us into gear for this season. I don't think there will ever be that one defining moment where we'll be able to gauge anything from one match. I don't get why after all these years, some fans keep saying next season or next game.

[Niall_Quinn]

Monaco was the straw balanced on the camel balanced on the straw. Wenger said the team wasn't mentally prepared. There you go. The debate is over.

It could be a new manager comes in and fucks up. If that happened then we'd need a new, new manager. Or this could be done in other ways so everyone can maintain face. Bring in a team coach and leave Wenger as the club manager if the board can't stomach getting rid of him right now. Wenger can keep on doing his finance things, the coach can get on with business on the pitch.

But you can't just keep saying soon, soon, soon without ever acting.

[Letters]

I don't think there will ever be that one defining moment where we'll be able to gauge anything from one match. I don't get why after all these years, some fans keep saying next season or next game.
I think that's fair enough but City was the first time in ages we'd won a big away game like that, to do so in a cup quarter final would be significant IMO.
We could still balls it up of course but these are the sorts of games we have messed up with depressing consistency in the last 5 years or so.

[selassie]

I'm growing more irritated by these sort of posts and the highlighted points as the years pass. Wenger's management of the club is frustrating but this sort of post drives me up the wall. Every year you set some sort of litmus test as if there will be a pinnacle point where 'all will become clear' after certain period or match. Monday's game won't tell us shit. We could easily beat Utd and lose to a lesser team in the next round or final. Are you that damn slow that you need one more game or example to see if this team has learnt anything? Jeez! As if you haven't had numerous examples, this season, last or any season since being at the Emirates.

That quote you used from Fakeyank has nothing to do with Wenger being incompetent or even mentions his salary. It's about posters like yourself that keep saying 'jam tomorrow' and kicking the can further down the road. Monday's game won't make a difference. We did a job on City and then fucked up against Spurs and Monaco. This team will always be inconsistent under Wenger and no single performance can prove he has his mojo back. That time has gone and I'm beyond the point of trying to measure where this team is at. Someone said something similar after the City game some weeks back. Something about the City game being great but the Spurs test will really show where we are as a team. So what did the Spurs game show? How did we not turn up for that game?

:gp:

[Power n Glory]

I think that's fair enough but City was the first time in ages we'd won a big away game like that, to do so in a cup quarter final would be significant IMO.
We could still balls it up of course but these are the sorts of games we have messed up with depressing consistency in the last 5 years or so.

You say 'fair enough' to that but go on to talk about the City game and upcoming Cup game as if they'll be 'significant' in some sort of way if we win. It's just shifting goal posts. We've beaten Bayern and Dortmund recently. We've beaten Barca some years back and I remember hearing a similar train of thought each time. From the fans and team. "Well, if we can beat ........., it proves we can one of Europes best' or whatever bollocks people want to attach to that one moment. Why is it significant?

[selassie]

Monday's game is exactly the sort of game which people on here bemoan (with some justification) that we 'never' win. So I do see a win in this one would be significant.
Every team is inconsistent sometimes, that's not a valid criticism of any manager or team.
FY mentions his salary in every post via his signature and clearly regards him as incompetent which is balls - you don't finish top 4 every year with an incompetent manager, how many other managers have managed that with any consistency?

We need to move on from Wenger to get out of the endless Groundhog Day, but there seems to be a feeling that Wenger is such an incompetent buffoon that the next manager will clearly be better and we'll be sweeping all before us when he leaves. I think that's far too simplistic, while the money cheats around we'll always face an uphill battle to win the title and the next bloke will have other flaws. Some of the names bandied round to replace Wenger have not done well consistently. And if we do better after Wenger goes then it will be in no small part because of the squad and financial shape Wenger leaves us in. A bit of credit where it's due and respect for that wouldn't go amiss.

Well I am of the opinion that we will only go so far with Wenger in charge and I think we are pretty much at that level now. Wenger for me is far too rigid in every area of his management style to move this team forward.

IMO Our lack of progress has nothing to do with lack of money and the moneybags clubs ahead of us. It's all to do with Wenger and his flawed methods in regards to building the squad and his flawed tactical approach to the big games.

He may not be incompetent I'll give you that, but he certainly isn't a progressive pragmatic manager with the right ideas to move this team forward.

When we replace him we should be aiming for a top class manager with a proven record on delivering, we should identify where wenger is going wrong and I think we all know where and we should be looking at bringing in a manager who has a track record of delivering success and getting the very best out of players. We have a fairly decent squad now, we need someone who can come in, organise them and take them to the next level, I accept we need investment in areas but we are not a million miles away, not with a top level manager in charge. Wenger is not that man, that much is clear.

[Özim]

If a new manager comes in they'd need some time to adapt a few seasons perhaps, but once they did (providing it was a good manager), I'm pretty confident they'll outperform Wenger. He's not doing a good job, the basic errors he makes are shocking to be honest, 4th place or not his achievements since 2006 are average at best.

You can't expect a new manager to come in and change things just like that, this club is all about Wenger and has been for a long time, it's an unhealthy situation.

[Özim]

You say 'fair enough' to that but go on to talk about the City game and upcoming Cup game as if they'll be 'significant' in some sort of way if we win. It's just shifting goal posts. We've beaten Bayern and Dortmund recently. We've beaten Barca some years back and I remember hearing a similar train of thought each time. From the fans and team. "Well, if we can beat ........., it proves we can one of Europes best' or whatever bollocks people want to attach to that one moment. Why is it significant?

No game is significant with Wenger, we've gone years losing to top sides consistently, yes we beat City in one game (when they were not in great form it must be said) but it amounted to nothing, the manager is incapable of making his team kick on. In the past a big win again a top side would have given the team great confidence and belief and would have probably led to a title charge whilst playing great football (if well positioned), now we're just going through the motions, playing average football and generally looking very unconvincing even if we do end up with a win.

[Xhaka Can’t]

We dont need to wait for some game, event or milestone in the
future to gauge where this club is heading with Wenger.

The body of evidence is already sufficient. We know exactly where we are going if we stick with him. There is nothing more to learn.

This club has changed its ownership, it's Board it's CEO, it's medical team, it's chicken balti pie recipe, it's assistant manager, it's stadium, it's buying strategy, and hundreds of players.

But nothing will change until it gets rid of its manager.

[Letters]

You say 'fair enough' to that but go on to talk about the City game and upcoming Cup game as if they'll be 'significant' in some sort of way if we win. It's just shifting goal posts. We've beaten Bayern and Dortmund recently. We've beaten Barca some years back and I remember hearing a similar train of thought each time. From the fans and team. "Well, if we can beat ........., it proves we can one of Europes best' or whatever bollocks people want to attach to that one moment. Why is it significant?

It's not shifting goalposts. We beat Dortmund and Bayern in games which didn't really matter. The Bayern game was a great shot in the arm but we caught them cold when they were 3-0 up, they got a bit complacent and we gave them a real scare. The Barca game was awesome, and it was the first leg, but we didn't finish the job.

I can't remember the last time we won a really big game, especially away from home, in a game like this when it really mattered.
This season we've beaten City away - it's the first time we've won a big away game in a while. Last year we won the Cup - first time we've won a trophy in far too long.
If we win this game it will be a sign that we can step up in these big games.

I agree we shouldn't read too much into individual games or moments but that argument works both ways, the Monaco result was awful but these things happen to every club. The issue at Arsenal is it happens too often and it happens in these big games with wearying regularity. So I do see Monday's game as a bit of a litmus test. I agree we shouldn't go overboard about it if we win but it would be a good sign. IMO it's shifting the goalposts far more if people say we 'always' bottle these big games and then dismiss good results as one offs. You can't have it both ways.

[Letters]

it's chicken balti pie recipe.
Wenger out :fury:

[Letters]

No game is significant with Wenger, we've gone years losing to top sides consistently, yes we beat City in one game (when they were not in great form it must be said) but it amounted to nothing, the manager is incapable of making his team kick on.
We've won every league game but one since that game :shrug:

[Letters]

Well I am of the opinion that we will only go so far with Wenger in charge and I think we are pretty much at that level now. Wenger for me is far too rigid in every area of his management style to move this team forward.

IMO Our lack of progress has nothing to do with lack of money and the moneybags clubs ahead of us. It's all to do with Wenger and his flawed methods in regards to building the squad and his flawed tactical approach to the big games.

He may not be incompetent I'll give you that, but he certainly isn't a progressive pragmatic manager with the right ideas to move this team forward.

When we replace him we should be aiming for a top class manager with a proven record on delivering, we should identify where wenger is going wrong and I think we all know where and we should be looking at bringing in a manager who has a track record of delivering success and getting the very best out of players. We have a fairly decent squad now, we need someone who can come in, organise them and take them to the next level, I accept we need investment in areas but we are not a million miles away, not with a top level manager in charge. Wenger is not that man, that much is clear.

I agree with pretty much all of that apart from the bit in bold, I'd say it's a bit of both.
IMO we should be ahead of where we are but I don't think we'll ever have it easy while the billionaire-fueled clubs are allowed to run riot.
Since they got going the only team who have managed to wrest the title from their grubby paws is Utd under Fergie - IMO he's the GOAT, that last season they had no right to win it with that squad. Since he left they've not looked close to winning the title again.

Wenger needs to have a better team than everyone else in order to win the title - he's not someone who can make a team more than the sum of its parts. So I can't see us winning the title under him again. But I don't think there are many managers out there who could win the title for us in the current climate. Not saying there aren't any, but some of the managers touted as successors on here have not consistently delivered.

[Power n Glory]

It's not shifting goalposts. We beat Dortmund and Bayern in games which didn't really matter. The Bayern game was a great shot in the arm but we caught them cold when they were 3-0 up, they got a bit complacent and we gave them a real scare. The Barca game was awesome, and it was the first leg, but we didn't finish the job.

I can't remember the last time we won a really big game, especially away from home, in a game like this when it really mattered.
This season we've beaten City away - it's the first time we've won a big away game in a while. Last year we won the Cup - first time we've won a trophy in far too long.
If we win this game it will be a sign that we can step up in these big games.

I agree we shouldn't read too much into individual games or moments but that argument works both ways, the Monaco result was awful but these things happen to every club. The issue at Arsenal is it happens too often and it happens in these big games with wearying regularity. So I do see Monday's game as a bit of a litmus test. I agree we shouldn't go overboard about it if we win but it would be a good sign. IMO it's shifting the goalposts far more if people say we 'always' bottle these big games and then dismiss good results as one offs. You can't have it both ways.

:doh:
If we win this game it will be a sign that we can step up in these big games. I'll keep this short because it's obvious this isn't sinking in.

If beating the big teams were some sort of precursor to our progress as a club, shouldn't we have made more progress in Europe by now? During the Cesc era we were beating the best and even managed a CL final. Fact is, we've gotten worse in the Champ League even though we've beaten title holders and runners up.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you saying the same thing about the Bayern game being some sort of confidence boost and meaning something when Zim was it was a nothing game? Now it's funny how you're switching the goal posts and saying that game wasn't significant. Funny that.

[Letters]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you saying the same thing about the Bayern game being some sort of confidence boost and meaning something when Zim was it was a nothing game? Now it's funny how you're switching the goal posts and saying that game wasn't significant. Funny that.
Yes, it was a confidence boost. Our final 10 games of the season after that we W8 D2 L0 after that which helped us to a top 4 finish. So the result wasn't completely meaningless, but we didn't go through to the next round so in other ways it didn't mean as much as it would had we done so.
It doesn't always have to be one extreme or the other.

[Power n Glory]

Don't selective quote, answer the other part.

[Power n Glory]

Fuck it. Don't bother. You're a lost cause.

[Niall_Quinn]

Fuck it. Don't bother. You're a lost cause.

Brat!

[selassie]

I agree with pretty much all of that apart from the bit in bold, I'd say it's a bit of both.
IMO we should be ahead of where we are but I don't think we'll ever have it easy while the billionaire-fueled clubs are allowed to run riot.
Since they got going the only team who have managed to wrest the title from their grubby paws is Utd under Fergie - IMO he's the GOAT, that last season they had no right to win it with that squad. Since he left they've not looked close to winning the title again.

Wenger needs to have a better team than everyone else in order to win the title - he's not someone who can make a team more than the sum of its parts. So I can't see us winning the title under him again. But I don't think there are many managers out there who could win the title for us in the current climate. Not saying there aren't any, but some of the managers touted as successors on here have not consistently delivered.

I personally think we are underachieving, I am not for one minute suggesting we should be winning leagues or beating all in front of us but I do feel Wenger is not getting the best out of this group. You rightly mentioned that Fergie is the only one to wrestle the title from the billionaire boys and whilst that is correct, Liverpool and Rodgers came very close last year and seem to have no problems going toe to toe with them in the big games. I personally feel Rodgers has got Liverpool in shape to challenge the billionaire boys next season, look at them now, after that horrendous start to the season they are well within a shout of finishing 2nd, at present they look the best team in the league to me.

Going back to Wenger if he needs to have a better team than everyone else then he needs to spend every penny available to him by buying the BEST players he can afford in the POSITIONS that need strengthening. Wenger doesn't even buy players we need, we have absolutely no chance of improving with him in charge.

IMO I think Mourinho & Brendan Rodgers could both win us the title with our current squad.

[Niall_Quinn]

Not sure on Rodgers. His judgement in terms of signings, particularly Balotelli, is very suspect. Maureen would walk the title with our squad.

[selassie]

Not sure on Rodgers. His judgement in terms of signings, particularly Balotelli, is very suspect. Maureen would walk the title with our squad.

Yeah I agree that some of Rodgers's signings have been suspect but some of have been very good and he seems like he is the sort of manager who not only gets the best out of a lot of his players but actually improves them. I rate a lot of their first XI, i think he has players like Can, Moreno, Sturridge, Sterling, Henderson, Coutinho & Lallana playing at a really high level.

Def agree on Maureen, he'd walk it with our squad.

[Letters]

Not sure on Rodgers. His judgement in terms of signings, particularly Balotelli, is very suspect. Maureen would walk the title with our squad.

Agree, and with the rest of selassie's post, to save me time.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Look, it's simple.

This team is capable of achieving a hell of a lot more with the players we have.

However, not whilst wenger is in charge.

change the manager, change the game. Done.