Seasons' comparisons

[Toronto Gooner]

Hi everyone,

It has been a while since I have posted on here. Anyway, I have been keeping my Seasons' Comparisons tracker running and here is what it looks like with 10 or 11 games to go.

Chelsea 63 pt (1)
13/14 3
12/13 14
11/12 17
10/11 15
09/10 2
08/09 8
07/08 7
06/07 3

Man City 58 pt
13/14 -5
12/13 -1
11/12 -8
10/11 8
09/10 8

Arsenal 54 pt
13/14 -5
12/13 7
11/12 2
10/11 -3
09/10 -4
08/09 5
07/08 -11
06/07 -1

Man U 53 pt
13/14 5
12/13 -18
11/12 -14
10/11 -7
09/10 -7
08/09 -12
07/08 -11
06/07 -16

Liverpool 51 pt
13/14 -8
12/13 9
11/12 9
10/11 12
09/10 3
08/09 -7
07/08 -2
06/07 -2

Spurs 47 pt (1)
13/14 -3
12/13 -4
11/12 -6
10/11 0
09/10 1
08/09 18
07/08 15
06/07 11

[Letters]

Interesting that we're actually reasonably consistent. Only 5 points off where we were last year. Only 2007/8 is significantly different.

Stagnation :bow:

[Toronto Gooner]

I will put up the complete figures early next week but I have say that today's result means that Arsenal have the same number of points as last season and behind only 2 seasons in the previous 8 seasons.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It has been quite a run to get us here. Overall the performances could have been better, but today, it looks like things were really gelling.

[Toronto Gooner]

Here are the Arsenal figures:

Arsenal 63 pt
13/14 0
12/13 7
11/12 5
10/11 1
09/10 -4
08/09 5
07/08 -4
06/07 8

[Letters]

It has been quite a run to get us here. Overall the performances could have been better, but today, it looks like things were really gelling.

It's games like this and Utd away which make me think the 'maybe next year' thing. And yes, I know we've been here a million times before but this is the first time for ages I've felt we've got a squad that can genuinely challenge. And these are the sort of games which we 'always' lose, this year we're not losing them. There are a few signs that things might just be different this time. The only question that remains is can we sustain this sort of form for a whole season.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It's games like this and Utd away which make me think the 'maybe next year' thing. And yes, I know we've been here a million times before but this is the first time for ages I've felt we've got a squad that can genuinely challenge. And these are the sort of games which we 'always' lose, this year we're not losing them. There are a few signs that things might just be different this time. The only question that remains is can we sustain this sort of form for a whole season.

Nope, just a calendar year.

[Letters]

Nope, just a calendar year.
In the first Wenger referendum thread you defined the sort of games we 'always' lose,
Today and Utd away fall under that definition.
Does that not show anything?

[Xhaka Can’t]

In the first Wenger referendum thread you defined the sort of games we 'always' lose,
Today and Utd away fall under that definition.
Does that not show anything?

It was a joke.

But as you bring it up, this run is coming despite Wenger. His subs today (other than the one forced on him) were shocking.

[Niall_Quinn]

In the first Wenger referendum thread you defined the sort of games we 'always' lose,
Today and Utd away fall under that definition.
Does that not show anything?

Wenger tried his very best to fuck today up. The players kept their discipline and won despite him. That's what today tells us.

[Letters]

Wenger is responsible for our results. He gets stick when results are poor, deservedly so, so he must be given credit when results are this good. You don't win 17 games out of 20 by dumb luck.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger is responsible for our results. He gets stick when results are poor, deservedly so, so he must be given credit when results are this good. You don't win 17 games out of 20 by dumb luck.

He's a stubborn old goat who doesn't maximise his considerable resources and doesn't learn from his lessons. He's painfully predictable. That's what he is. He could have cost us big today with his negativity. On the other hand he has signed some great players and these kept a grip on the game today despite Wenger's bumbling idiocy.

[Toronto Gooner]

It was a joke.

But as you bring it up, this run is coming despite Wenger. His subs today (other than the one forced on him) were shocking.

When I saw Ozil being subb'd off just after 70 mnutes, I wondered whether Wenger is finally doing what Real Madrid used to do in order to keep Ozil fresh: play him for about 70 to 75 minutes and then bring him off before his energy levels drop off.

[Letters]

He's a stubborn old goat who doesn't maximise his considerable resources and doesn't learn from his lessons. He's painfully predictable. That's what he is. He could have cost us big today with his negativity. On the other hand he has signed some great players and these kept a grip on the game today despite Wenger's bumbling idiocy.

:lol: 17 wins out of 20. What a bumbling idiot

[Niall_Quinn]

When I saw Ozil being subb'd off just after 70 mnutes, I wondered whether Wenger is finally doing what Real Madrid used to do in order to keep Ozil fresh: play him for about 70 to 75 minutes and then bring him off before his energy levels drop off.

Wondering what Wenger is doing is becoming a national pastime. If Wenger was a film director David Lynch would find him weird and unpredictable.

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol: 17 wins out of 20. What a bumbling idiot

You can apologise for his bullshit today (and on so many other occasions) but these players are doing the job themselves, despite the manager. And I think maybe this isn't the first time this has been the case. Wenger sees things others don't, not in a visionary way but in a mental ward way.

[Letters]

We won 4-1. I don't need to apologise for anything, nor does Wenger.

[Niall_Quinn]

We won 4-1. I don't need to apologise for anything, nor does Wenger.

You're trying to hide Wenger's bizarre performance behind the result. The result was down to a good team performance. Certainly in the first half, definitely in the second following Wenger's moronic substitutions. The team had to be strong to counter the manager today but they did it and deserve great credit. Which I have given them.

Not the manager though. I've had enough of him and his stupid antics.

[Letters]

I don't need to hide anything.
Wenger is responsible for our results, good or bad.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Ultimately, that is true.

But his in-game management has been shockingly bad and over the course of numerous seasons it has cost us.

[Marc Overmars]

He has no match savvy IMO.

However, what he does have is an innate ability to manage a team regardless of the combinations of players, to the same performance level each season. That is impressive and he deserves credit because consistency is not easy to achieve.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I get it.... There are times when his decisions question belief but I don't think we should be calling for his head.....I hear the OZil sub was a question mark on this game.....but weren't we far enough ahead or did Ozil not like the idea (will watch the game in a mo)

[The Emirates Gallactico]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBwQk5QW0AAB_B6.jpg

[GP]

LOL what? We are the form team, and we're the ones who are are going to miss out?

Why are these idiots paid for their opinions?

[adzzzbatch]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBwQk5QW0AAB_B6.jpg

:haha: :haha: :haha:

Stop it your killing me!!

[Letters]

I get it.... There are times when his decisions question belief but I don't think we should be calling for his head.....I hear the OZil sub was a question mark on this game.....but weren't we far enough ahead or did Ozil not like the idea (will watch the game in a mo)

We were 3-0 up when Ozil came off and he looked knackered to me. Welbeck came on for him so that wasn't a negative substitution and Welbeck did pretty well. Not sure what the fuss about that is for tbh.

[Marc Overmars]

Ozil is rarely taken off when playing badly, yet he had a blinder today and went off. WUMger at his best.

[Xhaka Can’t]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBwQk5QW0AAB_B6.jpg

That article was published a day early.

[Letters]

Ozil is rarely taken off when playing badly, yet he had a blinder today and went off. WUMger at his best.

We were 3 nil up and he looked knackered when he came off.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that substitution.
You really are digging deep to find something to complain about after a very good performance and result in a game we needed to win to keep a team snapping at our heels at bat

[Xhaka Can’t]

Nobody needs to be 'digging deep'.

There is ~ ten years of material to choose from.

[A Gunner]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBwQk5QW0AAB_B6.jpg

Because in Hong Kong, I've got the Premier League Channel, he actually said that on an analysis about a couple of weeks before the article, and it was like "Yeah, Arsenal is the inform team, but they won't make it into the CL", I was watching it and it was like what's the logic?

[A Gunner]

He has no match savvy IMO.

However, what he does have is an innate ability to manage a team regardless of the combinations of players, to the same performance level each season. That is impressive and he deserves credit because consistency is not easy to achieve.

But to be honest, he never really had match savvy, it's just before, we were winning, winning, winning, we just used to laugh about it. Where as now, we haven't won it for so long, it's no longer something we laugh at.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I don't like Wenger's subs. Not his subs today, yesterday or tomorrow but his philosophy to them. He has pretty much admitted to determining them primarily on energy and fitness levels.

The subs are not necessarily a requisite or even a wholly releavnt part of winning a game though.....and mostly, the good mangers make the subs an irrelevance. Wenger didn't get away with a dodgy sub today any more than per and Koscielny got away with Sterling and Markovic clowning around in front of goal having had our back line ripped open.

I didn't have too much issue with Ozil coming off. The game was mentally won and 3 nil was always going to be hard for them to over turn at that stage. I had more issue with Flamini coming on than Ozil coming off. We tend to hammer Wenger when he over plays players. Ozil had a massive hand in winning us the game and he has run further than anybody in the team since January so taking him off before 90 minutes was up is nothing to lose sleep over.

Lest we forget we will probably need to play this Ooorible lot again this season in a game that will be of even more significance.

[Letters]

Nobody needs to be 'digging deep'.

There is ~ ten years of material to choose from.

All the more reason not to make up new stuff from a game we comfortably won against a side who, had they beaten us, would have been snapping at our heels. The very sort of game you identified (with some justification, I guess) as one we always fail in.

[Toronto Gooner]

It is "interesting" to read the comments here. If Arsenal had lost yesterday then the cries for Wenger to be fired would have been almost instantaneous and vociferous. Even with a pretty convincing win, the praise has been very muted from many, and that disappoints me.

[Toronto Gooner]

Things could be very tight at the end of the season. Here are the "top" teams each club has to play:

Chelsea: Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool
Arsenal: Chelsea, Man U
Man U: Man City, Chelsea, Everton, Arsenal
Man City: Man U, Spurs, Southampton
Liverpool: Chelsea
Spurs: Southampton, Man City, Everton

I have included Southampton and Everton because their history rather than current form. Southampton are still looking for European football.

Looking at those lists, I believe that Man U are most at risk in the current top 4.

[Marc Overmars]

It is "interesting" to read the comments here. If Arsenal had lost yesterday then the cries for Wenger to be fired would have been almost instantaneous and vociferous. Even with a pretty convincing win, the praise has been very muted from many, and that disappoints me.

Unfortunately we are scarred by mistakes of the past.

This run of form is brilliant but it also leaves me scratching my head. The difference between the first half of the season and second half is night and day. Why? This is a squad that should be challenging but for one reason or another fell stupidly short in Europe again and lost any realistic chance of the title before Christmas. We are experts in late season surges that leave us wondering "what if". We're performing at par but the difference this season is that 2nd-4th is extremely close and we're in no danger of finishing lower than that, which maybe provides us with a different perspective even though points wise we are the same as last year.

The wins over the big sides have been awesome though. Wenget definitely deserves credit for those.

[mr_brighterside]

great win yesterday but we are 7 points ahead of 6 place and the same behind the top spot (with chelsea having a game in hand) which is why people aren't ecstatic about our position. We have spent a lot recently and wenger has been given a lot of time to win the title since he last did which is why the fans aren't thrilled right now.

[Letters]

It's perfectly reasonable to look back at other false dawns and be wary of this run, but there are a few reasons to think this could be different

The calibre of players we're signing now we have the new financial deals in place - people like Ozil and Sanchez - are making a difference, they are pushing us to a higher level. Early season (I agree that it's bemusing how poor we looked back then) Sanchez was carrying us a bit but now we've got him, Ozil and Carzola in midfield all looking fantastic - it's a pretty formidable midfield. For the first time in ages I feel we've got a squad that can compete, not just a first 11.

We won a trophy last year - we finally got that monkey off our back.

We're back in the semi-final this year and while Liverpool are still around we showed yesterday there's no reason we shouldn't be able to beat them should be be an Arsenal vs Liverpool final. If we do win two cups in two years then it will get some momentum going.

We're winning some of the 'must win' games against the big sides. Not sure City away was an example but it was a great win, yesterday was definitely an example and Utd away was fantastic. There are signs that the mental block in these games is lifting and the squad are starting to believe in themselves in these games. If we beat Chelsea then it will be another psychological boost (because Mourinho is such a genius they will come for a draw in that one, they'll probably bore us into submission and get one, too).

Also, this run isn't just a good few games, it's 17 wins out of 20 in all competitions. When was the last time we went on a run like that?! The big question that remains is can we sustain it for a whole season? If we do then we'll be champions next year, or go very close. It's a very big if of course.

Like it or not Wenger is going to be our manager next season so we might as well enjoy it while it lasts, hope we can finish the job in the Cup and keep some momentum going into next season.

[alexander]

Wenger has pissed me off for the past few years, but he has to be given credit for this run. I dont believe that the players when we were playing poorly every week just thought "oh well, this is what he wants" and carried on regardless. But then just thought "oh we have our own minds, lets play however the hell we want and win". Credit for the wins has to go to the manager.
Letters said about the better quality players we have now. 2-3 years ago I looked at our team and thought when playing the top sides and thought that not one of them would walk into our rivals teams. But now thats all changed. We have players right through the squad that could get in Chelsea, Man U, Man City, Liverpool teams. We also have a much stronger bench now. Few years back in some games I looked at the bench and would think there was not one player that could come on as a game changer, or was actually any good!
Personally I feel the most positive I have about an Arsenal team for many years, and I think we have to stop being so negative over a 4-1 victory over a top team who are on a decent run of form. Its petty to argue about Ozil coming off. Much better to protect your top players when you can. The game was won, and its the type of game where a player from the losing team dives in a bit late and we pick up a late injury. Good management imo.

[Niall_Quinn]

Its petty to argue about Ozil coming off.

Whether it's petty to argue about it is immaterial. The fact he was hauled off is the issue. We had control of a match where our attacking players were vastly superior to the the defenders they were up against. Liverpool had key men missing. Kolo was having a nightmare. At the very sharpest end of competition our job was to take full advantage. So you leave Ozil on and you maintain the control, you squeeze as much momentum as you can from the game and take it to the next game. It's not a gamble when you have control. The real gamble was going negative. Settling for what we had when we weren't under any significant threat. Wenger created the threats with his changes.

At times there are other considerations. If we were still in Europe I suppose you could say he was saving Ozil for that. But we aren't in Europe because Wenger gambled wrong again. That was the time to play it tight and nick the home advantage. We don't have a midweek game coming up. Ozil is not being eased in after injury. There were no considerations in play. It was a negative and depressing substitution. Let the guy play. He's having one of his best games in an Arsenal shirt, why oh why the fuck take him off? It's utterly ridiculous. With just a few games left what are we saving up for? This is the time to put everything out there and go for it.

Indeed he has signed some very good players and he now has a strong squad to call from. Nobody is criticising him on that front. Now he has to find the balanced team and use it to the very best advantage.

The correct substitution was Welbeck for Ramsey. That would have kept the shape and formation and maintained the energy on the right. Once you bring Flamini on everything changes, everything is disrupted. Useful if you are holding ground against a dangerous opponent. Fact is, Liverpool weren't a dangerous opponent on the day. We had that match by the throat. It was Wenger who released the grip. This time we didn't pay for it. Other times we have. We've all seen it. He's slacked off several times this season when we should have pushed on. His negativity, that's what people are worried about.

[Letters]

Hauled off :lol:

We were 3-0 up with 15 minutes left when Ozil came off. We did concede almost immediately after he came off but to connect those two things is really stretching it. The penalty was a one off mistake in an otherwise excellent performance all round.

I'll admit I was nervous when they got the goal back because of past idiocy from us but the truth is Liverpool had zero chances to score after getting that goal back. We were the ones still creating chance - Carzola hit the post, Giroud scored. And it wasn't a negative substitution, he came off for Welbeck. An attacker. The only consideration is Ozil looked knackered. We were 3 goals up when he came off, we won by three goals.

I can't believe Wenger is being criticised for being negative in a game we won by 4 goals to 1. :lol:. Previously he's been criticised for the team being too gung ho in games when we've let slip a lead. :shrug:
We were 3-0 up when Flamini came on, there was about half an hour to go. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not all bombing forward in that situation and getting caught on the break and being put under pressure. Had we been 1-0 up then I could understand some criticism - especially had we dropped points as a result. Fact is we were comfortable throughout the second half. Liverpool huffed and puffed a bit but I can only remember one decent save from Ospina, they didn't threaten much and that was in part because of our good defensive work.

Wenger is either responsible for results or he isn't. If he gets criticism for the early part of the season when were looking poor and drawing too many games then he gets credit now when we're on a fantastic run.

[Niall_Quinn]

We were 3-0 up with 15 minutes left when Ozil came off. We did concede almost immediately after he came off but to connect those two things is really stretching it. The penalty was a one off mistake in an otherwise excellent performance all round.

Nowhere did I connect Ozil coming off with the goal we conceded.

[Letters]

Ok, but you called it a negative and depressing substitution, I don't see how you figure that. Taking off a midfielder for a striker :shrug:
Ozil looked knackered, Welbeck could do with a run out, we were 3-0 up with 15 minutes left.
I honestly don't think the substitution requires any deep analysis.

[Niall_Quinn]

We were 3-0 up when Flamini came on, there was about half an hour to go. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not all bombing forward in that situation and getting caught on the break and being put under pressure. Had we been 1-0 up then I could understand some criticism - especially had we dropped points as a result. Fact is we were comfortable throughout the second half. Liverpool huffed and puffed a bit but I can only remember one decent save from Ospina, they didn't threaten much and that was in part because of our good defensive work.

So the two options were tighten up or go all out gung-ho reckless attacking? No in-between option where we keep the balance that had already established a 3 goal lead and dominance of the game? I didn't say we should have subbed the whole defence and keeper (see, I did a you but in reverse).

Yes, I agree with your point and the point I already made - we were comfortable from start to end. The biggest evidence of this was the loss of Kos - we still didn't struggle. So no need to tighten up. Let the performance evolve into a full 90 minutes of positive momentum building. Let Ozil play out possibly his best 90 minutes in an Arsenal shirt. Get the maximum return. Even though he didn't play the full 90 he still topped the list on passes in the opposition final third. He was on fire and making the whole team tick over. It's insane to replace him under those circumstances and I translate that sort of managerial decision into a desire for the top four rather than a desire for the top spot.

It's not just about the one game. It's the momentum and team belief and spirit and attitude over a season. The Invincibles usually had the game won before they stepped on the pitch because the opposition simply didn't believe they could beat us. That didn't spring up from a single match, but over many matches where the ruthlessness of the team and manager set the tone.

This negativity and settling for less than the absolute maximum didn't cost us against Liverpool, but it has cost us in the past and will cost us in the future. Be sure of this, we have no chance whatsoever of winning the big prizes with the attitude of this manager. He hasn't got that killer mentality and even when the team take it upon themselves to go for the jugular Wenger puts a stop to it.

The criticisms are not focused on a 4-1 win. The team played great and I have said as much. And yes, Wenger selected the team and the tactics so no criticism there. But in a position of strength with no discernible threat he still went safe. It's worth pointing that out because you have to have the conditions on a superior position and a 4-1 win to highlight the fact. It was a glaring insight into this manager's philosophy.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't see how you figure that. Taking off a midfielder for a striker

You know that's not what I mean, you're just using it to press a non-existent point.

I mean taking Ozil off (losing dominance in the final third) and bringing Flamini on (changing the balance). Ramsey went because he was injured, fair enough. That's when Welbeck should have come on because Ramsey was forward deployed on the right anyway, it was Santi tasked with the legwork in the centre (odd in itself but it worked). Apart from the Kos injury, Flamini was Wenger's first port of call. very illustrative.

In fact a smart and forward thinking manager might have brought Walcott on instead of Welbeck. We could afford it. Why not kill 36 birds with one stone given the contract negotiations? But this is too joined up for our mechanical manager.

I'm telling you, he's not the guy to push this team to the very top. I wish he was and he might change now we are getting better players through the door. But I doubt it. The signs aren't there.

[Letters]

We won 4-1 you silly sod :lol:
Stop WUMming :good:

[Niall_Quinn]

We won 4-1 you silly sod :lol:
Stop WUMming :good:

Sigh.

[Toronto Gooner]

Okay, here are the current seasons' comparisons after the weekend:

Chelsea 69 pt (1)
13/14 3
12/13 14
11/12 20
10/11 15
09/10 5
08/09 8
07/08 7
06/07 3

Arsenal 63 pt
13/14 0
12/13 7
11/12 5
10/11 1
09/10 -4
08/09 5
07/08 -4
06/07 8

Man U 62 pt
13/14 11
12/13 -15
11/12 -14
10/11 -4
09/10 -7
08/09 -11
07/08 -11
06/07 -16

Man City 61 pt
13/14 -9
12/13 -4
11/12 -10
10/11 5
09/10 5

Liverpool 54 pt
13/14 -14
12/13 6
11/12 12
10/11 9
09/10 3
08/09 -13
07/08 -5
06/07 -3

Spurs 54 pt
13/14 -2
12/13 -3
11/12 -4
10/11 1
09/10 -4
08/09 16
07/08 15
06/07 6

[Power n Glory]

I think people go into a panic when Wenger makes subs because we see a dramatic shift in our tactics. One minute the hot tap is running and then all of sudden that’s shut off and the cold tap goes on full blast. From ultra attack to shut up shop. At least we have a plan B when it comes to holding on to a lead. It’s not all bad because it also helps set our opposition up for a counter attack. We managed to get a 4 goal. Overall it’s good to see the team’s confident about defending a lead and Wenger doesn’t just think attack is our best form of defence like the old days.

No problem with Ozil coming off later but I wouldn’t have brought on Flamini for Ramsey around the 60 minute mark. Walcott could have served as a good counter attacking weapon when we decided to shut up shop. We should make use of pacey players if deciding to go more defensive just so we have a threat and outlet. Sometimes we go so defensive with the subs we can’t even get out of our half.

[Letters]

I don't even think we did go ultra-defensive. There may have been a touch of easing off, not doing anything silly and conceding a goal to put ourselves under pressure but we hardly parked any buses. We're the only side to have put 4 past Liverpool all season :shrug:

[GP]

Line up was fine, subs were fine.

Result was acceptable I suppose.

[Power n Glory]

I don't even think we did go ultra-defensive. There may have been a touch of easing off, not doing anything silly and conceding a goal to put ourselves under pressure but we hardly parked any buses. We're the only side to have put 4 past Liverpool all season :shrug:

Relax. I'm not attacking the tactics. There's just a notable visual shift in approach where we're comfortable letting our opponents have the ball. Usually, we'd try to dominate possession from the first to final whistle. That's where mistakes can happen, we lose a moments concentration and then concede.

If you played Fifa you'd know there is a difference between 'ultra defensive' and 'parking the bus' mode. :lol:

[Toronto Gooner]

After this weekend's games, here are the comparisons:

Chelsea 73 pt (1)
13/14 4
12/13 15
11/12 20
10/11 15
09/10 5
08/09 9
07/08 5
06/07 1

Arsenal 66 pt
13/14 2
12/13 7
11/12 5
10/11 3
09/10 -2
08/09 5
07/08 -4
06/07 10

Man U 65 pt
13/14 11
12/13 -15
11/12 -14
10/11 -4
09/10 -7
08/09 -9
07/08 -11
06/07 -13

Man City 61 pt
13/14 -9
12/13 -7
11/12 -10
10/11 5
09/10 2

Liverpool 57 pt
13/14 -14
12/13 8
11/12 14
10/11 9
09/10 3
08/09 -13
07/08 -5
06/07 -3

Spurs 54 pt
13/14 -2
12/13 -4
11/12 -5
10/11 0
09/10 -4
08/09 13
07/08 15
06/07 6

[Letters]

Progress :bow:

[Penguin]

Sometimes Wenger does invite unnecessary pressure with his subs when we're already on top of the game. I know It's better than the gung ho approach we've had in the past, but Wenger's teams have never been very proficient at playing defensively and absorbing attacks. Mourinho or Ferguson's teams have been, so you can understand them doing it. For us, sacrificing a fast, hardworking forward who will defend from the front (and scare them about the threat of a counter) for a CB isn't very assuring. Especially when that CB is the inexperienced (Chambers), doesn't speak English (Gabriél) or is a fullback as is often the case.

[Niall_Quinn]

Sometimes Wenger does invite unnecessary pressure with his subs when we're already on top of the game. I know It's better than the gung ho approach we've had in the past, but Wenger's teams have never been very proficient at playing defensively and absorbing attacks. Mourinho or Ferguson's teams have been, so you can understand them doing it. For us, sacrificing a fast, hardworking forward who will defend from the front (and scare them about the threat of a counter) for a CB isn't very assuring. Especially when that CB is the inexperienced (Chambers), doesn't speak English (Gabriél) or is a fullback as is often the case.

On average Wenger is proved right in these things, often because we have talented individuals who pull his arse out of the fire. But average doesn't win the top prizes. This is what's so frustrating about him. He gambles or goes conservative when we don't need to and then goes and passes up a sure thing. That game against Burnley was an unnecessary gamble right until the end. Yes we dominated, yes we were rarely threatened but we all know (too well) what can happen in football when that isolated fluke flies in or the ref inserts himself into the proceedings. On Saturday it was a big performance from Coquelin that kept the ship steady, not Wenger's tactics.

[Toronto Gooner]

I thought that I would put up the comparisons before the matches this weekend because of there are three things that can be decided/confirmed: St Totteringham's Day; Champions League participation; and the Premiership.

Chelsea 80 pt
13/14 5
12/13 15
11/12 22
10/11 13
09/10 3
08/09 9
07/08 5
06/07 1

Man City 67 pt
13/14 -7
12/13 -4
11/12 -10
10/11 5
09/10 5

Arsenal 67 pt (1)
13/14 3
12/13 7
11/12 3
10/11 3
09/10 -4
08/09 5
07/08 -4
06/07 8

Man U 65 pt
13/14 8
12/13 -19
11/12 -17
10/11 -8
09/10 -8
08/09 -15
07/08 -15
06/07 -17

Liverpool 58 pt
13/14 -19
12/13 7
11/12 12
10/11 6
09/10
08/09 -16
07/08 -8
06/07 -6

Spurs 58 pt
13/14 -2
12/13 -4
11/12 -1
10/11 4
09/10 -6
08/09 14
07/08 17
06/07 8

[Toronto Gooner]

Here are the final figures for the comparisons. Although Arsenal did not get as many points as last season, I still rate this as a better season.

Chelsea 87 pt
13/14 5
12/13 12
11/12 23
10/11 16
09/10 1
08/09 4
07/08 2
06/07 4

Man City 79 pt
13/14 -7
12/13 1
11/12 -10
10/11 8
09/10 12

Arsenal 75 pt
13/14 -4
12/13 2
11/12 5
10/11 7
09/10 0
08/09 3
07/08 -8
06/07 7

Man U 70 pt
13/14 6
12/13 -19
11/12 -19
10/11 -10
09/10 -15
08/09 -20
07/08 -17
06/07 -19

Spurs 64 pt
13/14 -5
12/13 -8
11/12 -5
10/11 2
09/10 -6
08/09 13
07/08 18
06/07 4

Liverpool 62 pt
13/14 -22
12/13 1
11/12 10
10/11 4
09/10 -1
08/09 -24
07/08 -14
06/07 -6

[Letters]

Liverpool 62 pt
13/14 -22
:lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Disappointing to go backwards considering we've brought in some top talent. A decent manager could add 15 points to that tally.

[Letters]

:lol: have a day off.

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol: have a day off.

Season over - this the time to talk about it? No?

[Letters]

I think there's one more game.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think there's one more game.

Yeah, but even if they change the rules and give us 3 points if we win that one it's still a crappy points tally.