Match Reaction Arsenal 0-1 Swansea

[Niall_Quinn]

WUMgered

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Berks.

[adzzzbatch]

Shit.

[Kano]

That was coming from the kick off. Players not switched on and crowd over-expectant of win. But that's what happens though after winning so many matches. Everyone's mood buys into the hype a little too much. Runs like we had are a rarity for any club so this defeat was due. The important thing was always going to be how we respond. Especially at Old Trafford. It will say a lot about the true character of the team.

[Letters]

Wenger Out!


(Although I blame the Tories, personally)

[Niall_Quinn]

Same old. As soon as there's a glimmer of progress the bumbling idiot stomps all over it. He's been threatening a result like this for weeks with his general idiocy. The players have managed to overcome the challenges he chucks in front of them but you get a night like this when our ex-keeper is up for it and you get unlucky in front of goal and WUMger sneaks the loss.

That first 45 was painful. Any normal manager would have switched things around, but WUMger will always just sit and watch until the computer alarm goes off and shows him what sub will most handicap the team.

[Globalgunner]

I'm sure in the post match We get will say we were unlucky. While in reality it was his stupid tactics that cost us again. Play that match 6 times Wenger will do everything the same and lose each time. Swansea are our new Bolton

[Master Splinter]

The first half was awful, but we did more than enough in the second half to win this comfortably. Poor finishing from everyone today.

It was like one of those freak results in the post-invincibles period in which we'd dominate, miss dozens of chances and concede from the opposition's only attack.

Annoying. And we're suddenly shit again.

Take the frustration out on United please.

[Letters]

:lol: excellent WUMming, better than mine tbf
(That was at NQ btw)

[Japan Shaking All Over]

OK so we haven't had to feel like this much recently but that game really really pissed me off......Fabs (who was only doing his job, but FO not against us!), the same fucker who scored against us last time.....goal line technology ( must be switched off at future home games!)......tippy tap football when what we need to do is smash the laces through the ball

[Power n Glory]

Just adds extra sauce to that Utd game. Lose and they overtake is so it's a pressure game.

We won't improve on our points tally from last season, might even finish 4th again. Best run since the Invincibles but counts for nothing if it all amounts to the same.

[Niall_Quinn]

The first half was awful, but we did more than enough in the second half to win this comfortably. Poor finishing from everyone today.

It was like one of those freak results in the post-invincibles period in which we'd dominate, miss dozens of chances and concede from the opposition's only attack.

Annoying. And we're suddenly shit again.

Take the frustration out on United please.

We ain't getting anything out of that match now we've given Utd a sniff. Who will it be? Dowd? Dean? Taylor?

[Letters]

Part of that run has seen us get to the Cup Final, finish the job and it doesn't amount to nothing at all.

[Niall_Quinn]

On another note, Swansea should have been down to 9 by half time. Ref was a joke.

Also, Giroud held in the box, no pen, Monreal fouled in the box (you can see the touch, you can see the touch!) but because he failed to diveprotect himself from injury - no pen.

Also Theo :doh: Won't get many chances that easy

Ramsey :doh: What's happened to his composure from last season?

And Alexis, Ozil and Santi not up to the usual standard with their passing.

We can't really blame the manager because he's always shit and as a team we should have found a way to neutralise him by now.

[Niall_Quinn]

Here we go - Is Gary Monk the manager of the season? :doh:

[Power n Glory]

Part of that run has seen us get to the Cup Final, finish the job and it doesn't amount to nothing at all.

we have to finish the job for starters and it's a domestic cup. It's not the league. It's been a disappointing season but finishing 4th again would be a bit of joke.

[Thierrymon]

Wasn't our day. Could have easily won but our finishing in the few chances we had was terrible. Cant let United finish above us so next week is a big game. I reckon we will get at least a draw.

[Niall_Quinn]

we have to finish the job for starters and it's a domestic cup. It's not the league. It's been a disappointing season but finishing 4th again would be a bit of joke.

If we don't concede two quick goals to Villa in the final it will be a sure sign of progress. Let's say we win the cup and then collapse into 4th place when second was in our hands, on a plate. Nobody except the fans and everyone in football will remember we are horrible chokers, all they'll remember is us winning the FA Cup and qualifying in 4th for the CL. Nobody will talk about us being beaten by the worst shitarse bunch of clowns ever to pull on Utd shirts, nobody will talk about us failing to beat a bunch of gypos in disarray, all they will be talking about is how we gloriously secured 4th place.

Definite progress. A great season all in all and well done Wenger.

[Power n Glory]

If we don't concede two quick goals to Villa in the final it will be a sure sign of progress. Let's say we win the cup and then collapse into 4th place when second was in our hands, on a plate. Nobody except the fans and everyone in football will remember we are horrible chokers, all they'll remember is us winning the FA Cup and qualifying in 4th for the CL. Nobody will talk about us being beaten by the worst shitarse bunch of clowns ever to pull on Utd shirts, nobody will talk about us failing to beat a bunch of gypos in disarray, all they will be talking about is how we gloriously secured 4th place.

Definite progress. A great season all in all and well done Wenger.

Here here! On and upwards!

[Niall_Quinn]

WUMger - we had to be patient :haha:

What will he take out of the 90 minutes, "our domination", "take encouragement from a defeat like that", "Swansea fewest passes in our half from any team", "Yes it's an important game on Sunday"

LOL - Apparently WUMgers shit tactics and senior citizen style tempo had nothing to do with it.

No shots on target for 1 hour. How patient do you want us to be?

[Penguin]

WUMgerball :bow:

[adzzzbatch]

It sounds silly, but shit like tonight really dampens my enthusiasm for the Final.

[-Xs-]

So now we are guaranteed at least 4th place that's our target.

Often feel those qualifiers at the start of the season really screw us but looks like we will never learn.

[rodders]

Back to usual fare. All over opposition but fail to score, then give away a stupid goal. Now a win at Man U is essential. Got a bad feeiling about the cup final also. Wenger is out thought tactically with alarming regularity.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It sounds silly, but shit like tonight really dampens my enthusiasm for the Final.

Tonight's result and the Conservative victory a few days ago dampens my enthusiasm for existence

[Letters]

we have to finish the job for starters and it's a domestic cup. It's not the league. It's been a disappointing season but finishing 4th again would be a bit of joke.

I'd rather win the Cup and finish 4th than not and finish 2nd.
But we really should finish 3rd after our run, it would be disappointing to say the least to slip to 4th.

[fakeyank]

Wenger will NOT take us to a world class level. That man is not fit to tie the shoe laces of the top managers in the game right now. Question to the fans and more importantly the board is... Do you want to hang onto the 'same shit different season manager' or do you want to even bother trying to go to the next level?

[adzzzbatch]

Tonight's result and the Conservative victory a few days ago dampens my enthusiasm for existence

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger will NOT take us to a world class level. That man is not fit to tie the shoe laces of the top managers in the game right now. Question to the fans and more importantly the board is... Do you want to hang onto the 'same shit different season manager' or do you want to even bother trying to go to the next level?

While the cash keeps tumbling in they won't do a thing that might jeopardise it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Tonight's result and the Conservative victory a few days ago dampens my enthusiasm for existence

Wenger is like the electorate - never learns, same old shit over and over, won't do the right thing.

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEwTc8TVAAAynKq.jpg:large

:lol:

[Gooner23]

Well that was shite, first game I've been to this season as well :pal:

First half was 45 minutes of my life I would like back. Slow tippy tappy shit for 5 min, give to Ramsey to pass to oppo. And repeat over and over. Add to that Swansea time wasting from 1st minute (fuck off Flappy) and an incompetant referee and it's the complete shitfest.

2nd half marginally better, especially with Jack on. Theo had his golden chance and blew it.

[Power n Glory]

I'd rather win the Cup and finish 4th than not and finish 2nd.
But we really should finish 3rd after our run, it would be disappointing to say the least to slip to 4th.

We'd all prefer a cup over nothing but that's preference not progress.

[fakeyank]

We'd all prefer a cup over nothing but that's preference not progress.

:bow:

http://www.scribbleoneverything.com/images/uploads/WallDecals/cartoon/bam.gif

[Xhaka Can’t]

Well that was shite, first game I've been to this season as well :pal:

First half was 45 minutes of my life I would like back. Slow tippy tappy shit for 5 min, give to Ramsey to pass to oppo. And repeat over and over. Add to that Swansea time wasting from 1st minute (fuck off Flappy) and an incompetant referee and it's the complete shitfest.

2nd half marginally better, especially with Jack on. Theo had his golden chance and blew it.

My first league game as well. A present for my son. If he wasn't with me, apart from not being there in the first place, I'd have left at halftime.

There is no excuse for a performance lacking in effort like that. Any manager that gave the tiniest of fucks would have shaken that team up at halftime.

But everyone knew he wouldn't.

And he didn't.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Quite fortunate that i kindly declined the offer for tickets for this and the chelsea game

Can anyone remember the last time we failed to score in two consecutive home league games....i think it was six years ago

[fakeyank]

Quite fortunate that i kindly declined the offer for tickets for this and the chelsea game

Can anyone remember the last time we failed to score in two consecutive home league games....i think it was six years ago

Looks like progress tbh :letters: :rolleyes:

[Gooner23]

Apparently there were loads of positives! I do wish he would be more honest sometimes. There's no shame in admitting it wasn't good enough.

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tDwqMVi6dSM

:bow:

:lol:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yeah it's Ospinas fault we didn't get three points.

[Thierrymon]

Claude really is king muppet. Is he capable of any rational thought or is it all just juvenile reactionary garbage?

[fakeyank]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tDwqMVi6dSM

:bow:

:lol:
The biggest Muppets in the video are the cunts singing one Arsene Wenger. Claude is a huge bellend too but he is 1000 leagues above those idiots singing.

[Static]

Quite fortunate that i kindly declined the offer for tickets for this and the chelsea game

Can anyone remember the last time we failed to score in two consecutive home league games....i think it was six years ago
4 years ago according to Sky.

[Letters]

Looks like progress tbh :letters: :rolleyes:

I don't think I I've said once this season we've made progress, of if I have it's been conditional depending on how we do, so stop the WUMming. You are such a toddler sometimes.

[Letters]

Claude really is king muppet. Is he capable of any rational thought or is it all just juvenile reactionary garbage?
I was going to say we should get him on here but we have enough of those on here already...

[adzzzbatch]

http://arseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Squawka_2015-May-11.png

:doh:

[selassie]

Meh

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'd rather win the Cup and finish 4th than not and finish 2nd.
But we really should finish 3rd after our run, it would be disappointing to say the least to slip to 4th.

I'd rather win the cup as well. But if we somehow manage to drop to a poor third or collapse into fourth place, then we are less likely to win the cup.

You can't turn on and off form and momentum ( well it's easy to turn off, harder to regain) and more performances like this coupled with the recent resurgence in Villa's form make it far less likely that we retain the Cup.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Are we all agreed that if we fail to win the cup then l'ouisseau has to go?

[Niall_Quinn]

Are we all agreed that if we fail to win the cup then l'ouisseau has to go?

Maybe we are, maybe we aren't. What difference does it make? The cup is lucky dip anyway and an indicator of precisely nothing. Us not securing second when it was in our hands is the real indicator. It's more of the same. When the chance to push on arrives Wenger blows it. It's a decade of watching this, regardless of the configuration of the team. One constant in this constant failure to step up to the top level. He's should go regardless because as we saw again yesterday he's fresh out of ideas and getting slapped around by Gary Monk FFS.

I said it after the Hull match, Wenger will be happy now that 4th is secure and he'll let the momentum slip. One week later and here we are. Anyone could have predicted it by glancing back over the last decade. We also predicted he'd make shitty subs - tick. The more attentive predicted we'd play to Bif's strengths but only after he'd been subbed off - tick.

Thanks for the memories but proper manager needed now. Not somebody who runs the place from top to bottom, a more limited role that concerns itself with sensible team selection, tactics, team talks and motivation, etc. The stuff Wenger can't do.

[Niall_Quinn]

Claude really is king muppet. Is he capable of any rational thought or is it all just juvenile reactionary garbage?

It's funny how his concerns morph in line with the latest shit coming from the media. "I've been fucking saying since I read it in the Daily Mail - we need a keeper. It's not good enough! It's not fucking good enough! AAAAARGGGHHHHH!"

[Letters]

I'd rather win the cup as well. But if we somehow manage to drop to a poor third or collapse into fourth place, then we are less likely to win the cup.

You can't turn on and off form and momentum ( well it's easy to turn off, harder to regain) and more performances like this coupled with the recent resurgence in Villa's form make it far less likely that we retain the Cup.

Fine, but we were fantastic against Hull. I didn't see last night's game but by all accounts we were poor first half, better second and on another night would have won.
It's a bad result but after the run we've been on it's a little churlish to moan too much, it happens to every team.
We need to get something at OT, do that and get results in our last two home games and I won't be panicking too much about the Cup Final.

[Niall_Quinn]

Fine, but we were fantastic against Hull. I didn't see last night's game but by all accounts we were poor first half, better second and on another night would have won.
It's a bad result but after the run we've been on it's a little churlish to moan too much, it happens to every team.
We need to get something at OT, do that and get results in our last two home games and I won't be panicking too much about the Cup Final.

You realise that we've now probably lost the chance of second spot, what with QPR's ridiculous capitulation? We've lost the chance to finish above one of the dopers and claim a genuine achievement? That was the test in front of us and we have failed. It wasn't even a difficult test, Swansea at home, a Swansea who came to defend and hit on the (one) break. How many years have we been waiting for Wenger to come up with an answer for that style of opposition play?

It's not churlish in the least to lament the passing of a real opportunity, instead having to settle for another fall at the final hurdle. Groundhog Day. Going on a run of wins might have meant something if it had culminated in some sort of achievement, but it's just more of the same when the end result is failure to step up compensated by qualification for another chance to throw it away to the likes of Monaco in the CL.

Wenger has underperformed very badly again. This is the sad fact. The Monaco game, the crunch match against the chavs, the chucking of second place. He can grab another secondary pot and try to wave that around as evidence of something but I don't think he'll be fooling many.

[Globalgunner]

You realise that we've now probably lost the chance of second spot, what with QPR's ridiculous capitulation? We've lost the chance to finish above one of the dopers and claim a genuine achievement? That was the test in front of us and we have failed. It wasn't even a difficult test, Swansea at home, a Swansea who came to defend and hit on the (one) break. How many years have we been waiting for Wenger to come up with an answer for that style of opposition play?

It's not churlish in the least to lament the passing of a real opportunity, instead having to settle for another fall at the final hurdle. Groundhog Day. Going on a run of wins might have meant something if it had culminated in some sort of achievement, but it's just more of the same when the end result is failure to step up compensated by qualification for another chance to throw it away to the likes of Monaco in the CL.

Wenger has underperformed very badly again. This is the sad fact. The Monaco game, the crunch match against the chavs, the chucking of second place. He can grab another secondary pot and try to wave that around as evidence of something but I don't think he'll be fooling many.

There is no convincing the blind. There is a ceiling of achievement which Wenger cannot exceed, same applies to Letters. Let them revel in their mediocrity. This season Chelsea have been ugly, City woeful and Manure disgusting. we will most likely end up below all of them. There is never a good situation Wenger cannot find a way to Fk up.

[Letters]

Maybe we are, maybe we aren't. What difference does it make? The cup is lucky dip anyway and an indicator of precisely nothing. Us not securing second when it was in our hands is the real indicator. It's more of the same. When the chance to push on arrives Wenger blows it. It's a decade of watching this, regardless of the configuration of the team. One constant in this constant failure to step up to the top level. He's should go regardless because as we saw again yesterday he's fresh out of ideas and getting slapped around by Gary Monk FFS.

I said it after the Hull match, Wenger will be happy now that 4th is secure and he'll let the momentum slip. One week later and here we are. Anyone could have predicted it by glancing back over the last decade. We also predicted he'd make shitty subs - tick. The more attentive predicted we'd play to Bif's strengths but only after he'd been subbed off - tick.

Thanks for the memories but proper manager needed now. Not somebody who runs the place from top to bottom, a more limited role that concerns itself with sensible team selection, tactics, team talks and motivation, etc. The stuff Wenger can't do.

I do see the Cup win as important but we could lose it for ridiculous reasons - it seemed to me the ref was doing his upmost in last season's final, denying us 4 or 5 pretty clear penalties. We got there in the end but had we not it wouldn't have entirely been our fault.

I don't really see a huge advantage in finishing 2nd rather than 4th. It would be nice and I'd be disappointed if we don't finish at least 3rd but Gary once posted he didn't care which order we lose in. We're in the top 4, we're miles away from Chelsea so finishing a distant 2nd isn't going to worry them a huge amount.
We've won 9 out of our last 10 league games, the one we drew was Chelsea who came for a draw and are experts in not losing when they decide not to.

Of course at some point we're going to lose one. And from what I understand we weren't awful last night, it was just a bit of a lacklustre performance which got better in the 2nd half and on another night we could have won, but we didn't. Every team gets nights like that. Some people seem to have had a posts like they've written in this thread typed up for ages and the minute we lose a game - and they've had to wait a while - pasted them here.

Wenger has his flaws, obviously. But the next bloke is just going to have different flaws, probably bigger ones. IMO there are very few better managers around. Mourinho is one, he'd have walked the league with this squad, but personally I wouldn't want him anywhere near the club.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think I I've said once this season we've made progress, of if I have it's been conditional depending on how we do, so stop the WUMming. You are such a toddler sometimes.

Not in so many words but you were saying that this unbeaten run is something we haven’t seen since the Invincible era as if it were an indicator of progress As if this season is somehow different to others we’ve seen before. As most warned, it’s a good run but it’s no indicator of progress and we’ve had plenty of seasons where we’ve gone on unbeaten runs or beaten the very best clubs in the world only to end up with a very disappointing league finish. It’s now impossible for us to top last season’s tally of 79 points and we should be aiming for 80+ for club with title ambitions.

Teams will lose but what really alarms me is the way we lost that one. We’ve seen it before during the Cesc era. Champaign football and looking beautiful but no end product. That’s the outcome of Wengerball when it finally starts to work because teams catch on, sit deep and just counter. We’ve struggled for a few years to dominate possession like we used to under the Cesc era. We dropped off a peg and struggled to get that fluidity in our play. But we shouldn’t aspire to reach a level that was never good enough in the first place. Back to that tippy tappy, narrow football with no end product and every manager has a play by play handbook on how to deal with it.

[Letters]

It's not churlish in the least to lament the passing of a real opportunity, instead having to settle for another fall at the final hurdle. Groundhog Day. Going on a run of wins might have meant something if it had culminated in some sort of achievement, but it's just more of the same when the end result is failure to step up compensated by qualification for another chance to throw it away to the likes of Monaco in the CL.

Wenger has underperformed very badly again. This is the sad fact. The Monaco game, the crunch match against the chavs, the chucking of second place. He can grab another secondary pot and try to wave that around as evidence of something but I don't think he'll be fooling many.
If the run culminates in the FA Cup and 3rd place then it won't have been for naught.
And 3rd is par, that's not underachievement. The two billionaires may well have bought the top two spots, we should be finishing 3rd.
The real underachievement is in the CL.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't really see a huge advantage in finishing 2nd rather than 4th. It would be nice and I'd be disappointed if we don't finish at least 3rd but Gary once posted he didn't care which order we lose in. We're in the top 4, we're miles away from Chelsea so finishing a distant 2nd isn't going to worry them a huge amount.

Letters, this isn't an actuarial table, it's the PL table - this ain't insurance, it's sport. There's a huge difference between 2nd and 4th in our case. 2nd means we're heading in the right direction, towards the prize. 4th means we're stuck in a rut looking up and something it appears we simply can't obtain. Certainly the chavs aren't going to be worried watching Swansea throw a blanket over us and then nick the points. Maureen will be delighted seeing that, no change there then, he'll tick us off his list and go back to studying the gypos and Utd.

But if we'd gone for it at home and taken 3 points off him and then pressed on to the end of the season with full points - now the fucker is paying attention.

Momentum.

We don't need a manager who tells us what he can't do. Can't beat the chavs and gypos because they have too much cash - well the gypos were there for the taking, scrub that excuse - what happened? Injuries? There are none, scrub that excuse. Tiredness? The fixture pile up? Doesn't apply, we already fucked the CL. Scrub that. Next excuse please...

Yeah, sure, ever team gets nights like that, once in a while. Our problem is we get them on a schedule, year after year. Every time it really matters we "get a game like that". Must be coincidence or bad luck. No way could it be the manager.

There's only one handbrake at Arsenal and that's Arsene himself.

[Letters]

Not in so many words but you were saying that this unbeaten run is something we haven’t seen since the Invincible era as if it were an indicator of progress As if this season is somehow different to others we’ve seen before. As most warned, it’s a good run but it’s no indicator of progress and we’ve had plenty of seasons where we’ve gone on unbeaten runs or beaten the very best clubs in the world only to end up with a very disappointing league finish. It’s now impossible for us to top last season’s tally of 79 points and we should be aiming for 80+ for club with title ambitions.

Teams will lose but what really alarms me is the way we lost that one. We’ve seen it before during the Cesc era. Champaign football and looking beautiful but no end product. That’s the outcome of Wengerball when it finally starts to work because teams catch on, sit deep and just counter. We’ve struggled for a few years to dominate possession like we used to under the Cesc era. We dropped off a peg and struggled to get that fluidity in our play. But we shouldn’t aspire to reach a level that was never good enough in the first place. Back to that tippy tappy, narrow football with no end product and every manager has a play by play handbook on how to deal with it.

Well, it's got us to the Cup Final and propelled us from 7th (I think) to 2nd. We've let that slip now but after 9 wins out of 10 I think it's a little churlish to complain too much.

Our points tally was always going to be hit by our awful start - 4 wins in 12 was nowhere near good enough and put me firmly in the "Wenger Out" camp. Since then there have been reasons for optimism though which has made me reconsider.
If we win the Cup and finish 3rd, or even 4th, then I guess you can't say that's progress since last season but over a longer period there has been progress. The new level of signings we're able to make have made a difference. We finally have a squad that I believe can compete. I'm not sure if that's the right point to change manager although the counter-argument is that if you don't think Wenger can push us on any further then we need to find someone who can. The question is who. As I've said, Mourinho would but I wouldn't want him near the place even though I think he'd win us the league.

[Letters]

Letters, this isn't an actuarial table, it's the PL table - this ain't insurance, it's sport. There's a huge difference between 2nd and 4th in our case. 2nd means we're heading in the right direction, towards the prize. 4th means we're stuck in a rut looking up and something it appears we simply can't obtain. Certainly the chavs aren't going to be worried watching Swansea throw a blanket over us and then nick the points. Maureen will be delighted seeing that, no change there then, he'll tick us off his list and go back to studying the gypos and Utd.

But if we'd gone for it at home and taken 3 points off him and then pressed on to the end of the season with full points - now the fucker is paying attention.

Momentum.

We don't need a manager who tells us what he can't do. Can't beat the chavs and gypos because they have too much cash - well the gypos were there for the taking, scrub that excuse - what happened? Injuries? There are none, scrub that excuse. Tiredness? The fixture pile up? Doesn't apply, we already fucked the CL. Scrub that. Next excuse please...

Yeah, sure, ever team gets nights like that, once in a while. Our problem is we get them on a schedule, year after year. Every time it really matters we "get a game like that". Must be coincidence or bad luck. No way could it be the manager.

There's only one handbrake at Arsenal and that's Arsene himself.

2nd would have been good, 4th would be disappointing. I could live with 3rd. And what does 3rd mean? It's better than last season but points wise we'll be worse off. I think we can all agree this season hasn't shown great progress but there have been some good signs too.

Had we won we'd have been 11 points behind Chelsea. I don't think Mourinho would have been looking at us too closely. We have had plenty of momentum during this run but sometimes there are fine lines in games and it goes the wrong way. Why did that game 'really matter' and the Hull game (in which we were outstanding) didn't? Your definition of a game which 'really matters' seems to be one in which we slip up and the games where we don't are ignored. Fact is all games matter and we've been winning more than our fair share of late. You predicted a win in the match thread, now you're claiming you had foresight on us slipping up. :shrug:

[Niall_Quinn]

2nd would have been good, 4th would be disappointing. I could live with 3rd. And what does 3rd mean? It's better than last season but points wise we'll be worse off. I think we can all agree this season hasn't shown great progress but there have been some good signs too.

Had we won we'd have been 11 points behind Chelsea. I don't think Mourinho would have been looking at us too closely. We have had plenty of momentum during this run but sometimes there are fine lines in games and it goes the wrong way. Why did that game 'really matter' and the Hull game (in which we were outstanding) didn't? Your definition of a game which 'really matters' seems to be one in which we slip up and the games where we don't are ignored. Fact is all games matter and we've been winning more than our fair share of late. You predicted a win in the match thread, now you're claiming you had foresight on us slipping up. :shrug:

I gave 2-0 Ozil hattrick as a prediction, I think. In some ways that was said tongue in cheek. That said, I fully expected to win and find it completely unacceptable we didn't. On the one hand we hear how Maureen can always find a way to get the result, on the other we hear how results like last night's can happen to any club. Contradiction. When it matters Maureen gets the result. When it matters Wenger doesn't. True story.

You can go back and check the threads. I said if Wenger holds true to form then he'll take his foot off the pedal and settle for qualification. It would be a stretch to claim that based on a single season. But 8 seasons? There's a pattern there and it's easy enough to see.

I also said every game in the run-in is crucial with the next game becoming more important than the last. True. The Hull game was super important and we did what we had to do. No problems there. We fucked it last night in an even more important game. So big problem. Pattern repeated. Run of wins wasted. Nothing achieved.

The pattern, repeating. Yes there are some clear positives. The easing of the financial constraints, the quality signings, the injury problems clearing up. So you'd think Wenger could make a better fist of it given these fresh positives. But he hasn't and he can't.

[Power n Glory]

Well, it's got us to the Cup Final and propelled us from 7th (I think) to 2nd. We've let that slip now but after 9 wins out of 10 I think it's a little churlish to complain too much.

Our points tally was always going to be hit by our awful start - 4 wins in 12 was nowhere near good enough and put me firmly in the "Wenger Out" camp. Since then there have been reasons for optimism though which has made me reconsider.
If we win the Cup and finish 3rd, or even 4th, then I guess you can't say that's progress since last season but over a longer period there has been progress. The new level of signings we're able to make have made a difference. We finally have a squad that I believe can compete. I'm not sure if that's the right point to change manager although the counter-argument is that if you don't think Wenger can push us on any further then we need to find someone who can. The question is who. As I've said, Mourinho would but I wouldn't want him near the place even though I think he'd win us the league.

We have this conversation every year! :lol: Forget progress at Arsenal and with Wenger. Where is the progress on GW? Someone has to learn from this. I don’t know why you can’t comprehend the arguments about Wenger’s management style that’s the problem. Even with financial circumstances changing, we have the same sort of problems. Or maybe I need to learn and just stop talking to a brick wall. ;) Every year we arrive at the same results, same conclusion, same conversation.

[Letters]

I gave 2-0 Ozil hattrick as a prediction, I think. In some ways that was said tongue in cheek. That said, I fully expected to win and find it completely unacceptable we didn't. On the one hand we hear how Maureen can always find a way to get the result, on the other we hear how results like last night's can happen to any club. Contradiction. When it matters Maureen gets the result. When it matters Wenger doesn't. True story.

You can go back and check the threads. I said if Wenger holds true to form then he'll take his foot off the pedal and settle for qualification. It would be a stretch to claim that based on a single season. But 8 seasons? There's a pattern there and it's easy enough to see.

I also said every game in the run-in is crucial with the next game becoming more important than the last. True. The Hull game was super important and we did what we had to do. No problems there. We fucked it last night in an even more important game. So big problem. Pattern repeated. Run of wins wasted. Nothing achieved.

The pattern, repeating. Yes there are some clear positives. The easing of the financial constraints, the quality signings, the injury problems clearing up. So you'd think Wenger could make a better fist of it given these fresh positives. But he hasn't and he can't.

I think you know what I meant by 'always'. Obviously not always always, Chelsea have had their bad results this season too - most notably in the FA Cup of course but they've lost two silly games in the league, dropped other silly points too, and went out of the CL when they failed to beat PSG despite cheating to get one of their players sent off. So yes, it does happen to all teams but Mourinho is a better manager than Wenger so it happens more rarely to them. Even then in our game with them we had a good chance right at the end, on another day we score and beat them. They had a bit of luck that day.

Your definition of it mattering seems to be entirely based on one which we slip up in. All games matter. Some more than others but we've won plenty of games which matter this year. If you keep flipping a coin it's going to come up tails sooner or later (not that football results are random, but there is always an element of chance). If you keep saying it's going to be tails and it keeps coming up heads then you can't really say "Ha! See? Told you!" when it finally comes up tails. The fact we're now certain of a top 4 finish may be relevant to last night's result but there is a natural easing off - Chelsea drew against a pretty poor Liverpool side after they'd already sewn up the title. And maybe it isn't relevant, by all accounts we were OK last night, in the 2nd half at least, did more than enough to win it but didn't have our shooting boots on. You get days like that.

IMO Mourinho's the only manager who would be certain to push us on so if that's all you care about then let's get him. Would you want that? I bloody wouldn't. I want success but not at any price. There may be other managers out there who would do a better job but there aren't many. And some of the managers mentioned on here after flash in the pan successes have not gone on to do anything which inspire me with confidence.

[Niall_Quinn]

We have this conversation every year! :lol: Forget progress at Arsenal and with Wenger. Where is the progress on GW? Someone has to learn from this. I don’t know why you can’t comprehend the arguments about Wenger’s management style that’s the problem. Even with financial circumstances changing, we have the same sort of problems. Or maybe I need to learn and just stop talking to a brick wall. ;) Every year we arrive at the same results, same conclusion, same conversation.

Took me a long time to see the obvious, glorious memories of what we did in Wenger's early period, the football we played, the fact he's been loyal to Arsenal, the fact he's decent bloke unlike that shit Maureen, the financial constraints he worked under. It's was easy to make excuses for him but a decade is fair play. Time's up.

Everyone will take their own time to see it. Some twigged right after the 2005 cup final, I suppose. Others will realise some 20 years after he's left the club. But it's not just football is it? We just had that election. The majority haven't copped-on to that lark, the same sort of blindness that afflicts those who scrabble desperately for excuses for Wenger. We all have our blind spots, the stuff we just don't want to see.

Wenger for Chancellor! Win-win. We get a proper manager in and the country gets somebody who can add and subtract.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't know, anyone even partly responsible for Bendtner being on 52k a week, Chamakh on 70k a week, Diaby on 60k, Denilson on 45k etc shouldn't be trusted with being the treasurer for the local church benevolent fund let alone the country's finances.
The sad thing is despite that, he'd probably do a better job than Osbourne and Darling before him (certainly borrow less)

[Niall_Quinn]

I think you know what I meant by 'always'. Obviously not always always, Chelsea have had their bad results this season too - most notably in the FA Cup of course but they've lost two silly games in the league, dropped other silly points too, and went out of the CL when they failed to beat PSG despite cheating to get one of their players sent off. So yes, it does happen to all teams but Mourinho is a better manager than Wenger so it happens more rarely to them. Even then in our game with them we had a good chance right at the end, on another day we score and beat them. They had a bit of luck that day.

Your definition of it mattering seems to be entirely based on one which we slip up in. All games matter. Some more than others but we've won plenty of games which matter this year. If you keep flipping a coin it's going to come up tails sooner or later (not that football results are random, but there is always an element of chance). If you keep saying it's going to be tails and it keeps coming up heads then you can't really say "Ha! See? Told you!" when it finally comes up tails. The fact we're now certain of a top 4 finish may be relevant to last night's result but there is a natural easing off - Chelsea drew against a pretty poor Liverpool side after they'd already sewn up the title. And maybe it isn't relevant, by all accounts we were OK last night, in the 2nd half at least, did more than enough to win it but didn't have our shooting boots on. You get days like that.

IMO Mourinho's the only manager who would be certain to push us on so if that's all you care about then let's get him. Would you want that? I bloody wouldn't. I want success but not at any price. There may be other managers out there who would do a better job but there aren't many. And some of the managers mentioned on here after flash in the pan successes have not gone on to do anything which inspire me with confidence.

Basically...

What?

This is my fault now? Well fuck me then! Me out!

There were fans (not highly paid managers with 3 decades of experience, just fans) on the match thread last night who could easily spot the problems with the tactics, could easily predict what Wenger would (or more correctly wouldn't) do in response, predicted how he'd bollocks up the subs, knew in advance the excuses he'd make after the game.

I'm guessing either Gary Monk secretly reads GW or else he easily figured out the old fella too.

This was a home game against an unambitious Swansea team, a game we had to take 3 points from to keep the heat on the gypos and push on to a top 2 finish for the first time in 10 years. This is what competing at the top is all about, winning these games, winning when your opposition is winning, not being the first to crack, eating up the pressure and getting the result.

Moderate opposition, no injuries, fully rested, 2nd place in our own hands. There's no excuses here - especially not the old "one of those games" excuses. Come on FFS!

Enough.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Sigh ...... hard to get too worked up about what will probably be a meaningless game in the end (2nd or 3rd is still on) especially in the kind of smash-and-grab manner it happened.

On balance of play we did deserve to win, however we didn't.

Could we have done better? Yes of course. We lack urgency in the first and weren't clinical in the second half and they scored with their only semi decent chance. Even in some of the games we've won at a canter recently, I've been a bit worried about our lack of ruthlessness up front and it bit us on the arse yesterday. It's something that we need to work on. God knows how we didn't put away some of those chances.

These things happen from time to time though but like the Man Utd game at home, at the very least you shouldn't lose these games. Ospina probably should have saved it and the defence should done better in the first place.

At the very least I hope it does force Wenger's hand to get a world class keeper in this summer. A DDG or Courtois probably would have kept it out, it was difficult but not impossible.

More saddened about Wenger's post match comments if he genuinely believes them (I suspect he's just saying that for the cameras/mind games). Swansea set up perfectly today and it's the very same way I would want to see us set up against a fellow top four team away from home. They made it difficult as hell for us to penetrate them. Full kudos to them and their fans, though their time wasting from early on was irritating.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't know, anyone even partly responsible for Bendtner being on 52k a week, Chamakh on 70k a week, Diaby on 60k, Denilson on 45k etc shouldn't be trusted with being the treasurer for the local church benevolent fund let alone the country's finances.
The sad thing is despite that, he'd probably do a better job than Osbourne and Darling before him (certainly borrow less)

Nik is the best footballer on the planet, so we got him cheap. Chakma was a freebie and we got shot fast, so not much harm done. Diaby is pretty good value for such a major medical research project and the benefits our findings will have for all of mankind.

Denilson, good point.

[Bumble]

We have won 48 out of 54 points against the bottom 10 sides with 2 games to play yet only 22 out 51 against the top half with one to play.

[Letters]

Sigh ...... hard to get too worked up about what will probably be a meaningless game in the end (2nd or 3rd is still on) especially in the kind of smash-and-grab manner it happened.
You would have thought so, but apparently not.

[selassie]

We have won 48 out of 54 points against the bottom 10 sides with 2 games to play yet only 22 out 51 against the top half with one to play.

That's pretty worrying and seems to be a problem that won't or at least hasn't gone away for a few seasons now.

I think some of us have just been relieved we haven't had spankings off our top 4 rivals and have ignored our poor return against these rivals and teams in the upper half of the table, me included.

Last night was one of those games...I knew we wouldn't win after about 10 minutes. Poor result and we have probably thrown away 2nd place now...a 2nd place finish would have been nice TBH.

[milla]

Same old. As soon as there's a glimmer of progress the bumbling idiot stomps all over it. He's been threatening a result like this for weeks with his general idiocy. The players have managed to overcome the challenges he chucks in front of them but you get a night like this when our ex-keeper is up for it and you get unlucky in front of goal and WUMger sneaks the loss.

That first 45 was painful. Any normal manager would have switched things around, but WUMger will always just sit and watch until the computer alarm goes off and shows him what sub will most handicap the team.

The way I see it for current Arsenal to be successful with this brand of football is to buy/produce at least one more striker similar to Sanchez. Forwards who can take their own initiative to make something for the team. Giroud and Ramsey were so poor last night. You can't really blame midfield for not creating enough, it is a very discipline performance from Swansea. We just don't have enough ruthless strikers upfront. Of course our slow build up game doesn't help us but playing players (or asking too much from limited players) out of their position is our biggest problem. :coffee:

[Power n Glory]

I don't know, anyone even partly responsible for Bendtner being on 52k a week, Chamakh on 70k a week, Diaby on 60k, Denilson on 45k etc shouldn't be trusted with being the treasurer for the local church benevolent fund let alone the country's finances.
The sad thing is despite that, he'd probably do a better job than Osbourne and Darling before him (certainly borrow less)

We at least managed to shift on Bendy, Denilson and Chamakh. We have a new problem brewing with players like Walcott, Wilshere, Ramsey and a couple of the other core players. When you dole out massive long term contracts like we've done with these guys, you get the predictment Walcott is currently in. He hasn't developed enough to warrant a £100k+ contract, but a new contract usually means your pay goes up.

Jack is close to the £100k mark on £85k, not sure what Ramsey is on and Ox has passed the £50k mark too. I know there is a going rate on wages but I wish we'd roll out the big contracts once a player has arrived and ready to play at a consistent high standard.

[Globalgunner]

We always struggle against packed defence, always have. You could have substituted Chelsea for Swansea yesterday and the game would have been almost the same except Ospina couldnt keep out the one effort that came his way and Chelsea had no real desire to win the game.

We do the same stuff over and over again, trying to either pass, through them or latterly from the wings. In the old days we had supreme individual talent of Henry, Pires, Bergkamp, who could pullout one amazing piece on individual skill that would turn the best laid plans inside out. You need to mix things up, be more direct. has anyone else observed that the long range shot has long dissapeared from our players repertoire.? It has been trained out of them. The players that still are inclined to still try it like Rosicky and Podolski are phased out. Wenger loves tippy tappy, even though the original advocates of it Barca have since moved on to a broader envelope. We hold fast to it. likely will as long as it delivers CL qualification.

[fakeyank]

I don't think I I've said once this season we've made progress, of if I have it's been conditional depending on how we do, so stop the WUMming. You are such a toddler sometimes.

Stating in multiple statements that this run is the next best thing after the invincibles run could be seen to be implied as progress. Anyway, forget what you implied or what I may have inferred from your statement(s).. simple question (I know you never answer simple questions), if we end up 3rd and win the FA Cup, will you want Wenger to stay? How about we dont win the FA Cup?

[Niall_Quinn]

Stating in multiple statements that this run is the next best thing after the invincibles run could be seen to be implied as progress. Anyway, forget what you implied or what I may have inferred from your statement(s).. simple question (I know you never answer simple questions), if we end up 3rd and win the FA Cup, will you want Wenger to stay? How about we dont win the FA Cup?

The following should give you and idea of where things could go if we don't win the Progress Cup.


I do see the Cup win as important but we could lose it for ridiculous reasons - it seemed to me the ref was doing his upmost in last season's final, denying us 4 or 5 pretty clear penalties. We got there in the end but had we not it wouldn't have entirely been our fault.

If we lose and are denied a penalty then Wenger should stay. If we lose and aren't denied a penalty then Wenger should stay because if we get somebody else in he might do worse.

[Letters]

if we end up 3rd and win the FA Cup, will you want Wenger to stay?
Yes. I'm not sure it's clear progress from last season, especially as we now can't finish with more points than last year, but it would be two (fairly) major trophies in two years and in over a longer period we seem to be heading in the right direction, the bigger question is can Wenger push us on. Your answer would be 'no'. Mine would be 'I don't know'. My question would be who could? Mourinho could, but personally I wouldn't want him near the club. Klopp has been cited but can you imagine this place if he had a season for us like he's had for Dortmund this year?


How about we dont win the FA Cup?
That is a question with more shades of grey, I think.
It would depend on what happens on the day. If we slump to a poor victory after a disappointing end to the league season, after such a good run, then probably not.
If we play well and end up losing because of a ludicrous reffing decision (stupid sending off, clear penalties denied us or soft ones given against us) then I'm not sure that's any basis to make such a major decision.

[Letters]

The following should give you and idea of where things could go if we don't win the Progress Cup.
If we lose and are denied a penalty then Wenger should stay. If we lose and aren't denied a penalty then Wenger should stay because if we get somebody else in he might do worse.
Not quite sure what that WUMming is about when you posted pretty much the exact same things above about the fine lines in football.

[fakeyank]

Yes. I'm not sure it's clear progress from last season, especially as we now can't finish with more points than last year, but it would be two (fairly) major trophies in two years and in over a longer period we seem to be heading in the right direction, the bigger question is can Wenger push us on. Your answer would be 'no'. Mine would be 'I don't know'. My question would be who could? Mourinho could, but personally I wouldn't want him near the club. Klopp has been cited but can you imagine this place if he had a season for us like he's had for Dortmund this year?


That is a question with more shades of grey, I think.
It would depend on what happens on the day. If we slump to a poor victory after a disappointing end to the league season, after such a good run, then probably not.
If we play well and end up losing because of a ludicrous reffing decision (stupid sending off, clear penalties denied us or soft ones given against us) then I'm not sure that's any basis to make such a major decision.

Dont you think Wenger staying or getting the boot should be decided on things larger than the next 5 games? Should we not look at the last 5 or 6 years (at least) as a baseline to understand where we are going as a club under his management?

[Niall_Quinn]

Not quite sure what that WUMming is about when you posted pretty much the exact same things above about the fine lines in football.

It's not WUMming for a start - see your own answer above which I accurately predicted. How can I be WUMming if you then go on to type what I said you'd type? Unless you are WUMming yourself?

Everyone understands fine lines, but it's not so easy to accept being on the wrong side of those lines 90% of the time. How many attempts to beat Maureen now? It's pretty damn shameful. And what about our record against a fading Man Utd? Crap. We beat a half-arsed gypo gang of mercenaries, looked good at the time, until everyone else started beating them to put things into proper context. And now we're going to finish below them. Pretty damn shameful.

Win, lose or draw the cup, good ref, poxy ref, good performance, bad performance, it's time for Wenger to bow out. Even if Klopp or somebody else came in and did worse, so be it. It's worth the risk on the offchance they'd do better. Wenger won't do better. He had all the cards he needed this season and he's still going to fall at the line.

Instead of saying maybe the new guy will do worse, how about saying maybe the new guy will do better? Could anyone do worse against our main rivals? Would it be possible?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Fine, but we were fantastic against Hull. I didn't see last night's game but by all accounts we were poor first half, better second and on another night would have won.
It's a bad result but after the run we've been on it's a little churlish to moan too much, it happens to every team.
We need to get something at OT, do that and get results in our last two home games and I won't be panicking too much about the Cup Final.
Poor in the first half does not do it justice. Had last night not been one of my son's birthday presents, I would have gone home at half time. I'm serious.

[Niall_Quinn]

Poor in the first half does not do it justice. Had last night not been one of my son's birthday presents, I would have gone home at half time. I'm serious.

Couldn't you have made going home at half time an extra treat, like a second surprise present?

[Letters]

Dont you think Wenger staying or getting the boot should be decided on things larger than the next 5 games? Should we not look at the last 5 or 6 years (at least) as a baseline to understand where we are going as a club under his management?
Yes of course we should be taking a longer term view, and I am. The next 5 games are the culmination of a whole season but how they go will change how we feel about the season as a whole.
The last 4 seasons we've improved our points total year on year. This year we're slightly short of where we were last year but it's unlikely to be far short. We won the Cup last year, we could retain it. The infamous run is not the be all and end all but it is the best for a long time, none of the other 'good runs' really compare and it has seen us win some big games and it's got us to the Cup Final.
I feel the new level of signings have made a difference, I generally feel the club is heading in the right direction.
I have question marks about whether Wenger can push us on, I'm just less sure that many other people could. Some of the names bandied around on here have crashed and burned after flash in the pan success.

[Letters]

It's not WUMming for a start - see your own answer above which I accurately predicted. How can I be WUMming if you then go on to type what I said you'd type? Unless you are WUMming yourself?
Don't flatter yourself, you didn't predict anything, I'd already talked about fine lines and how the cup final result needs to be viewed in context.


Everyone understands fine lines, but it's not so easy to accept being on the wrong side of those lines 90% of the time.
78.5% of stats are made up on the spot, you know...


How many attempts to beat Maureen now? It's pretty damn shameful[QUOTE]
Agreed.

[QUOTE=Niall_Quinn;459580]And what about our record against a fading Man Utd? Crap.
It's not been great but we started to make amends in the Cup, let's see what we do on Sunday.


We beat a half-arsed gypo gang of mercenaries, looked good at the time, until everyone else started beating them to put things into proper context.
Well, they've lost some silly games since but not a single one at home (in the league). Actually they've won every game at home apart from one since we played them, so I don't think you can dismiss that result.


And now we're going to finish below them. Pretty damn shameful.
Not really. They've spent a billion quid and will probably finish a few points above us. Before this run we were 12 points adrift of them.


Win, lose or draw the cup, good ref, poxy ref, good performance, bad performance, it's time for Wenger to bow out. Even if Klopp or somebody else came in and did worse, so be it. It's worth the risk on the offchance they'd do better.
I guess that depends on how bad you think things are now. Last year we finished 4th and won the Cup. If we finish 3rd and retain the Cup then that's not a bad couple of seasons, I doubt fans of many clubs would swap with us.
Our CL record is rubbish. The league record...well, with the billionaires that's going to be tricky whoever is in charge. Now the financial restraints are not there we should be giving them a run for their money (literally) and there are signs we could next year, the new level of signings are making a difference and we have a squad that can compete.


Wenger won't do better. He had all the cards he needed this season and he's still going to fall at the line.Instead of saying maybe the new guy will do worse, how about saying maybe the new guy will do better? Could anyone do worse against our main rivals? Would it be possible?
Yes, it would be possible.
As for 'the line' it depends where you think the line is. I think it's the Cup Final.
Maybe the new guy will do better but I tell you one thing for free, a lot of the names bandied around on here have subsequently shown they'd definitely have done worse for us. We certainly need to be preparing for a post-Wenger Arsenal but we need to choose with care, there may be some better managers than Wenger but there aren't many.

[Niall_Quinn]

So in a nutshell, see you this time next year for the same conversation?

[Letters]

:lol: Pretty much.

Let's face it, he's going to be here whatever you or I think.

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol: Pretty much.

Let's face it, he's going to be here whatever you or I think.

We all know that. Plus he'll pick his successor.

[Letters]

We all know that. Plus he'll pick his successor.

If it's either the board, Internet twats or Wenger picking it then I'm fine with that.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Get a room already. :d