Match Reaction - Arsenal 0-2 West Ham

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger. That is all.

[adzzzbatch]

Shit from all concerned, especially Cech.

[Marc Overmars]

Thank you for making me feel like an absolute mug Arsenal.

Again.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Tears it endeth.

[AFC Leveller]

Horrible start to the season, horrible mistakes by Cech and the team lacked ideas energy and drive.

this is a very eazrly reminder that this team can still fuck up at any given moment and it is not ready to mount a serious challenge.

[Ernesto]

What. On. Earth.

Expect a justified backlash on arsenal fan TV, the forums, etc. Signing justone aging goalkeeper in the close season is shocking.

The one slight silver lining we might have is that this shuts up all those who have us as favourites to win the league.

[Kano]

We should be grateful that we've had our optimism absolutely shat on at the very start. Get rid of foolish title hope and settle down for our perineal top four scrap out.

We've got a whole season of the same old shit to come. Hopefully our scouts have a replacement lined up for Sanchez at the end of this season because he isn't hanging around for more of this.

The team bought into their own hype and took West Ham for granted, who were brilliantly drilled and fit enough to close us down every time we were on the ball. There was a reason Cech lost his place at Chelsea and we've been reminded of why very quickly.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Whatever the mistakes by Cech, this was a result of tactical deficiency.

We conceded the first goal on nine ocassions last season, only once did we come back to win against a manager less Crystal Palace.

We don't have the players or the tactical nous from the manager to play the expansive football we want, West Ham were always going to make us play in front of them and look to take any chance from set pieces or counter. They deserved to win and Slaven Bilic saw us coming a mile off, predictable.

[PGFC]

lol...Wenger does it on purpose, just to upset GW.

[Dein-machine]

All this against a team with a cb at right back & a 16 year making his debut in midfield - Wengers tactical ability is beyond a joke.

[cheesy bites]

If you thought at any point this offseason that we were going to win the league, I hope you know better now.

What a shower of shite.

A 16 year old lad defeated two World cup winning midfielders and the Welsh Iniesta. Hilarious.

I fucking hate football.

[Dein-machine]

On the second goal - watch Merts. If he reacts & moves closer to Kos he probably blocks it.

[Ernesto]

Whatever the mistakes by Cech, this was a result of tactical deficiency.

We conceded the first goal on nine ocassions last season, only once did we come back to win against a manager less Crystal Palace.

We don't have the players or the tactical nous from the manager to play the expansive football we want, West Ham were always going to make us play in front of them and look to take any chance from set pieces or counter. They deserved to win and Slaven Bilic saw us coming a mile off, predictable.

It really was reminiscent of the football we were playing between 2006 and 2010.

Boring, predictable, shit.

[Marc Overmars]

If we don't start well and score then this is the always the risk. We're so poor at chasing, West Ham had the cigars out when defending today. Many other teams will do so as well.

Let's just stick to what we know rather than pretend we're any good. Bring on the 4th place scrap.

[Maestro]

chelsea drop points, utd look shit and this is how we respond ....amazing

[cheesy bites]

Other random observations:

Going forward Ox is a threat, but the number of times he loses the ball in dangerous areas is fucking obscene.

Debuchy offers 0 going forward.

Giroud is making it harder and harder for me to support him as the lead striker.

Walcott does fuck all, and nobody should be surprised.

Coquelin doesn't actually do that much defending work, and his passing is worse than any of yours.

[topgun]

Shit from all concerned, especially Cech.

Exactly and it starts at the top.

[cheesy bites]

Team is screaming out for a striker signing. God help us if Wenger doesn't bring in anyone else.

[fakeyank]

Dont worry guys.. we will go on a 10-12 game unbeaten run, and watch that being branded on your face like Kim K's ass as a sign of progress. :rolleyes:

[selassie]

Same as usual, 3rd or 4th place finish this season after dropping out of the title race by October at the very latest. By then half our team will be out injured with muscular injuries too, sound familiar? :rolleyes:

[Master Splinter]

Cech cost us the game quite clearly.

But the conservatism in going with the packed midfield again shows that Wenger has not learnt anything. Only more injuries leading to him stumbling upon a working formation will change things. So there's some hope, I suppose, with all the certain upcoming injuries.

Even when we had worse personnel in defence, I always felt that the lack of organisation in midfield or stupid mistakes like the one from Oxlade (yet again) were the main reason for all the pressure. I think that showed again today and when your goalkeeper plays like a clown on his debut, you're fucked.

No Walcott or Alexis means no quick movement up front, no guile, no unpredictability and no goals. Ox is good, but he's not a forward and we need at least two of Alexis, Theo or Ox to play. You can get away with playing a lone Giroud in some games, but over the season, the lack of a direct, incisive outlet will ultimately cost you.

The difference Bellerin makes should be obvious by now too. Anyone thinking Debuchy is for some reason a better defender should remember that Bellerin had outstanding games against City, United, Liverpool and Chelsea last season. Having players like Bellerin, Coquelin, Ox, Sanchez and Theo gives the team so much more energy and a new dimension. It also dilutes the creative players' uses when they've got no players or spaces to play with and pass to.

We'll bounce back comfortably from this and comfortably finish in the top three, but unless there's some clear-cut changes in team selection, there won't be progress. A couple of signings would certainly help, but they won't help us to a title if they're handicapped too.

And bring back Szczesny. He's the most decisive keeper on set-pieces we've had. If Cech has a few more games like that, it will become a huge problem.

[Niall_Quinn]

We're already out of the title race. There will be ups and downs over a long season and signs of hope and improvement. But today showed us that Wenger has learned nothing, I suspect because he doesn't think he needs to learn anything. He was tactically destroyed by Bilic today, but he won't seed it that way. For him it will be about fitness or sharpness or some other functional aspect that we should have sorted out by default. It's never about his inadequacies, even though they are so glaringly obvious.

We can win the title this year, but Wenger has to leave right now, today. And he just won't do that.

[Static]

ROFL WHAT

[Power n Glory]

Saw from the team selection we had it wrong. We learned nothing new. Well, maybe something. Cech might not be the game changer we thought he'd be. But overall, predictable. I didn't expect a loss but knew with a team full of passers we had the wrong balance. Wenger never learns.

[fakeyank]

Relax guys, its just a game..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl445c_HQGQ

[Marc Overmars]

As good as he can be at times, I'm not really sure how I feel about Ramsey.

[Gooner23]

Too many players had shockers today, not just Cech. Why move Cazorla out of the position where he was fundamental to our good run last season. If that means Ramsey out of position or on the bench tough shit. Absolutely toothless up front with Giroud as well. And Ozil really was dreadful today, capable of so much better.

Oh how I've missed that feeling of bitter disappointment.

[Niall_Quinn]

Bringing Alexis on was so desperate. If you are going to rest the guy and you have so much top, top, top, top, top, top quality available keeping the likes of Vidal off the radar (even at £28mill), then why is Alexis even on the bench? Has Wenger got so little confidence that he needs to keep his favourite arse asbestos handy even when he's not 100% fit?

[Gooner23]

As good as he can be at times, I'm not really sure how I feel about Ramsey.

I find him incredibly frustrating. If the goals dry up (which they kind of have) there's not much left because he is dreadful positionally and gives the ball away cheaply.

[Niall_Quinn]

I find him incredibly frustrating. If the goals dry up (which they kind of have) there's not much left because he is dreadful positionally and gives the ball away cheaply.

Cazorla and Ozil were effectively taken out of the game today by Wenger's absolute insistence of forcing certain players into the starting eleven. He has no notion of squad rotation or selecting a team to beat specific opposition. It sounds ludicrous for fans on a message board to be questioning a man with 20 years experience at the club. You end up assuming that experience must account for something and the fans and the media and the ex-players and the old lady from the pie shop down the road who doesn't even like football must all be wrong.

But how many seasons have to pass before the obvious is accepted as fact?

[Kano]

As good as he can be at times, I'm not really sure how I feel about Ramsey.

If Ramsey left and worked under a manager that developed his game on and off the pitch, he could be one of the best in the world. He works under a manager who doesn't teach him any discipline in his role, so like everyone else out there wearing our shirt, they are left to figure it out for themselves. As long as he stays at the club under Wenger, he'll remain a frustrating player to watch.

[Kano]

Too many players had shockers today, not just Cech. Why move Cazorla out of the position where he was fundamental to our good run last season. If that means Ramsey out of position or on the bench tough shit. Absolutely toothless up front with Giroud as well. And Ozil really was dreadful today, capable of so much better.

Oh how I've missed that feeling of bitter disappointment.

Exactly. That system seemed to be working. Cazorla deep, Ramsey out wide and ozil allowed room to control the centre.

[LDG]

Midfield was appauling today. They were all so square. No movement.

AOC, by far out most dangerous player kept coming inside and was then moved to RB.

Ozil had no movement in front of him

Our ball retention was terrible

We didn't work as hard as West Ham and were second to every ball.

The defence was sloppy and slow.

The keeper looked like a lumbering oaf.

All in all.

Fucking crap

[Globalgunner]

Its going to take a lot more than what we have to overcome the deficit of having Wenger as manager, better players than this lot struggled to make up for it. Is this another of those car crash starts or just a hiccup. All in all that sense of optimism sure dissipated fast didn't it?

[Power n Glory]

Cech cost us the game quite clearly.

But the conservatism in going with the packed midfield again shows that Wenger has not learnt anything. Only more injuries leading to him stumbling upon a working formation will change things. So there's some hope, I suppose, with all the certain upcoming injuries.

Even when we had worse personnel in defence, I always felt that the lack of organisation in midfield or stupid mistakes like the one from Oxlade (yet again) were the main reason for all the pressure. I think that showed again today and when your goalkeeper plays like a clown on his debut, you're fucked.

No Walcott or Alexis means no quick movement up front, no guile, no unpredictability and no goals. Ox is good, but he's not a forward and we need at least two of Alexis, Theo or Ox to play. You can get away with playing a lone Giroud in some games, but over the season, the lack of a direct, incisive outlet will ultimately cost you.

The difference Bellerin makes should be obvious by now too. Anyone thinking Debuchy is for some reason a better defender should remember that Bellerin had outstanding games against City, United, Liverpool and Chelsea last season. Having players like Bellerin, Coquelin, Ox, Sanchez and Theo gives the team so much more energy and a new dimension. It also dilutes the creative players' uses when they've got no players or spaces to play with and pass to.

We'll bounce back comfortably from this and comfortably finish in the top three, but unless there's some clear-cut changes in team selection, there won't be progress. A couple of signings would certainly help, but they won't help us to a title if they're handicapped too.

And bring back Szczesny. He's the most decisive keeper on set-pieces we've had. If Cech has a few more games like that, it will become a huge problem.

:gp:

Sums up our problems and why you have to pay attention to the team selection. We've said it so many times in so many different ways but we keep seeing the same mistakes. Too much passers, not enough people moving. Too much ball to feet players on the pitch. Square pegs in round holes... etc. I just don't understand why Wenger hasn't sussed the pattern and how to balance a team. It takes injuries and players being unavailable for him to find the right combo.

[Niall_Quinn]

AOC, by far out most dangerous player kept coming inside and was then moved to RB.

That was inexplicable. Hammers couldn't handle him at all in the first 20 mins then we swapped it all around and out came the slippers and the drinking chocolate and their defence coasted home.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ugh

Same old predictable nonsense

The game is over as soon as the other team score first, because we don't have someone who can just get us a goal from route one (we've lacked that since we sold the rapist) and unsurprisingly our record of coming from behind in matches is atrocious.
Bilic is a good manager, and he won the way any good manager would win by compact defending and hassling us off the ball.
When we have time and space, we can beat anyone....when we don't....our ability is negligible.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Cech cost us the game quite clearly.

But the conservatism in going with the packed midfield again shows that Wenger has not learnt anything. Only more injuries leading to him stumbling upon a working formation will change things. So there's some hope, I suppose, with all the certain upcoming injuries.

Even when we had worse personnel in defence, I always felt that the lack of organisation in midfield or stupid mistakes like the one from Oxlade (yet again) were the main reason for all the pressure. I think that showed again today and when your goalkeeper plays like a clown on his debut, you're fucked.

No Walcott or Alexis means no quick movement up front, no guile, no unpredictability and no goals. Ox is good, but he's not a forward and we need at least two of Alexis, Theo or Ox to play. You can get away with playing a lone Giroud in some games, but over the season, the lack of a direct, incisive outlet will ultimately cost you.

The difference Bellerin makes should be obvious by now too. Anyone thinking Debuchy is for some reason a better defender should remember that Bellerin had outstanding games against City, United, Liverpool and Chelsea last season. Having players like Bellerin, Coquelin, Ox, Sanchez and Theo gives the team so much more energy and a new dimension. It also dilutes the creative players' uses when they've got no players or spaces to play with and pass to.

We'll bounce back comfortably from this and comfortably finish in the top three, but unless there's some clear-cut changes in team selection, there won't be progress. A couple of signings would certainly help, but they won't help us to a title if they're handicapped too.

And bring back Szczesny. He's the most decisive keeper on set-pieces we've had. If Cech has a few more games like that, it will become a huge problem.

Cech cost us a point. The game could still be ticking along and we'd in all probability be looking for an opener. Which to be fair, is kind of hard to get when your sticker is firing in a cross from the left wing with nobody in the box.

[Power n Glory]

Cazorla and Ozil were effectively taken out of the game today by Wenger's absolute insistence of forcing certain players into the starting eleven. He has no notion of squad rotation or selecting a team to beat specific opposition. It sounds ludicrous for fans on a message board to be questioning a man with 20 years experience at the club. You end up assuming that experience must account for something and the fans and the media and the ex-players and the old lady from the pie shop down the road who doesn't even like football must all be wrong.

But how many seasons have to pass before the obvious is accepted as fact?

It really is infuriating. Why couldn't he just stick with the team that got us on that good run. Coquelin, Cazorla and Ozil should be the main trio. Coquelin wasn't bad but he took Cazorla and Ozil out of their element for sure. Ramsey's positioning is awful and you're right to say he smothers Ozil's work by being too high up the pitch. Show some intelligence and work deeper in the field!,

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

A little worrying with Cech, but I agree with Souness alluding to the lack of communication, helping one another and simply sensing the danger. The line was too high too.

Coquelin's passing was all over the place today but he wasn't alone.

As much as I love Chamberlain he does have a horrible habit of losing the ball in situations that lead to us conceding. If he keeps it up he will completely nullify the pro's of having him there as an attacking threat.

Ramsey was incredibly frustrating and there were far too many occasions when the right hand side opened up with one of our players in space, only for us to completely ignore it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Anyway enough. Not going to let it ruin the remainder of Sunday.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Anyway enough. Not going to let it ruin the remainder of Sunday.

How else are you planning on ruining it?

[Master Splinter]

And we know he's mental, but why change the team today with all the momentum behind us?

Walcott played well at the end of last season, he started against Chelsea as we got our first win over Mourinho, so why bring Giroud in? We saw last week that although he wasn't a constant menace, he gave Chelsea something to think about and teams will make mistakes and be on their toes against someone who can get in behind them.

WUMger is just a complete madman. Theo should have dropped down a few levels and gone to Liverpool and got 30 goals and then a big move to Chelsea or Citeh.

He'll probably go with three forwards next week after Ozil picks up a knock and we'll win 0-5. The week after, Theo and Ox will be dropped for no reason and Ozil will return to partner Giroud in central midfield as we lose 1-3 to Liverpool.

Why WUMger? Why?

Time to support Swansea tbh. Sgt. Brody :bow:.

[fakeyank]

We can point the blame at Cech, Ramsey, Ozil, Coq, but the main problem for the team is one man- Wenger. You CANNOT blame lack of money for the horrible formation and team tactics he has been putting out for nearly a decade. Same shit has happened every season.. playing CM's on the wings, not having enough width, buying the same kind of player etc etc. The billionaire excuse is just stupid now... at some point, you have to just give up and blame the one person who is responsible for the shit you watch.

[Master Splinter]

Cech cost us a point. The game could still be ticking along and we'd in all probability be looking for an opener. Which to be fair, is kind of hard to get when your sticker is firing in a cross from the left wing with nobody in the box.

But when your keeper flaps around, it puts you on the back foot. When he messes up again, it kills you. If you're playing ineffectively anyway, two horrendous errors only makes everything more nervy.

We do not like to say "I told you so," but Cech has been dodgy like this ever since Hunt nearly took his face off. If Szczesny did anything even slightly uncertain, he was unfairly criticised as if he was dropping a clanger every thirty seconds. I'd like to think that a player of Cech's stature is rightly derided for being utterly shit today.

[LDG]

How else are you planning on ruining it?

I think he will likely sit down with a copy of The Mail, watching his wife murder the beef and burn the spuds.

[LDG]

We're bottom of the league :haha:

[Master Splinter]

Wemger is a lanky cunt :haha:.

[Injury Time]

Midfield was appauling today. They were all so square. No movement.

AOC, by far out most dangerous player kept coming inside and was then moved to RB.

Ozil had no movement in front of him

Our ball retention was terrible

We didn't work as hard as West Ham and were second to every ball.

The defence was sloppy and slow.

The keeper looked like a lumbering oaf.

All in all.

Fucking crap


Cech cost us a point. The game could still be ticking along and we'd in all probability be looking for an opener. Which to be fair, is kind of hard to get when your sticker is firing in a cross from the left wing with nobody in the box.
These two posts nail it for me. I thought AW had grown some nuts with the subs only to see Ox drop to right back when we are chasing* the game. Giroud had a good game on the wing crossing it too...er...the striker we don't need.

I thought we'd show some effort in the second half, our usual "okay we'll play now..." but no, and that second goal was a joke...they looked like "wait a minute Le Boss says you're not allowed to shoot from outside the box...oh..."

I cant be arsed to even bother listening to the shit excuses WUMger comes up with this time.

*failing to even work basic triangles, the players looked like they'd never met before. <_<

[topgun]

Anyway enough. Not going to let it ruin the remainder of Sunday.

Exactly,today reminded me why I have not missed football over the summer break.

[Munchies]

Wenger out already ffs

To quote FakeYank

Wenger, the only manager who gets paid £8m a year to sit on his fuckin arse

[Globalgunner]

Nothing ever changes with this club and manager, the same old shit done to infinitum, pass and move, pass and move, sure it comes off once in a while, but looking at that game you knew 3 hrs playing time wouldn't have seen us score. Im sick and tired of the old coot. He thinks football is about a philosophy, all he has done is kill all the spontaneity out of our game. We are a bunch of drones programmed with a single attack strategy. No one takes shots outside the box or when running on goal, Utterly predictable crap.

[Munchies]

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger: "We were not convincing offensively or defensively. I knew it it could be a tricky game, if you can't win the game, make sure you don't lose it.

"The players were maybe too nervous and put too much pressure on themselves.

"Today we have been hurt mentally and it is a good opportunity to respond."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33750502

:lol:

[Marc Overmars]

WUMger says we were nervous, lacking physically etc.

Worst on-paper title challengers ever?

[AFC Leveller]

August is extremly important if you want to challenge, win your first 3 or 4 games and you build momentum, confidence and send a message out to the rest. We always start slow, Villa a couple of years ago, last year when we droped points again at the start and now this.

Now we go to a tough place facing a very good Palace full of confidence and ability to hurt us. We lose that (likely) and we're 6 behind already and looking like relegation candidates.

[Marc Overmars]

August is extremly important if you want to challenge, win your first 3 or 4 games and you build momentum, confidence and send a message out to the rest. We always start slow, Villa a couple of years ago, last year when we droped points again at the start and now this.

Now we go to a tough place facing a very good Palace full of confidence and ability to hurt us. We lose that (likely) and we're 6 behind already and looking like relegation candidates.

By the time we start to resemble a competent Football team we will be looking at the 4th place trophy.

[Power n Glory]

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger: "We were not convincing offensively or defensively. I knew it it could be a tricky game, if you can't win the game, make sure you don't lose it.

"The players were maybe too nervous and put too much pressure on themselves.

"Today we have been hurt mentally and it is a good opportunity to respond."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33750502

:lol:

Bottlers. Everyone tipping us to be title contenders got to them. :lol: Or maybe it got to him. No idea what was up with that squad selection but he hasn't played Cazorla down the left in months.

[AFC Leveller]

By the time we start to resemble a competent Football team we will be looking at the 4th place trophy.

Its so frustrating because after last week's win i thought we could kick on and show a different approach to things. We obviously underestimated them because rthe way we started today and the way we did last week was very different, we lacked the focus and attitude to get the win.

[Niall_Quinn]

If you sent the Royal Ballet out on stage with instructions to "express themselves" the show would last 5 minutes until the audience figured out it wasn't some sort of comedic opening for effect. Wenger has been getting away with this for 10 years now. We need a proper choreographer, not some hippy who believes love will find a way. I admire his principles, which is why I think he should resign and go and help kids in Africa.

[Penguin]

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger: "We were not convincing offensively or defensively. I knew it it could be a tricky game, if you can't win the game, make sure you don't lose it.

"The players were maybe too nervous and put too much pressure on themselves.

"Today we have been hurt mentally and it is a good opportunity to respond."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33750502

:lol:

A good opportunity to respond? Yes Arsene, what a great opportunity we've created for ourselves :doh:

Wenger cracks me up. This game WAS the opportunity - Chelsea dropped two points and had their keeper sent off. But usual Wenger fucked it up. All that talk about challenging for the title and we fuck it up on day one.

[Niall_Quinn]

A good opportunity to respond? Yes Arsene, what a great opportunity we've created for ourselves :doh:

Wenger cracks me up. This game WAS the opportunity - Chelsea dropped two points and had their keeper sent off. But usual Wenger fucked it up. All that talk about challenging for the title and we fuck it up on day one.

He doesn't understand momentum. He never has, he never will.

[Munchies]

That merchandise man Ty from AFTV got punched outside the stadium

part of it on video: https://twitter.com/SeniAFC/status/630421475854557184

[Marc Overmars]

Its so frustrating because after last week's win i thought we could kick on and show a different approach to things. We obviously underestimated them because rthe way we started today and the way we did last week was very different, we lacked the focus and attitude to get the win.

They believed their own hype. Look how shell-shocked they were at conceding, they never got going again after that. Really, really poor from a team that has been shooting its mouth off for weeks now about being ready to challenge. Massive wake up call today, I only hope we recover as well as we did after the Villa defeat 2 years ago.

[Maestro]

That merchandise man Ty from AFTV got punched outside the stadium

part of it on video: https://twitter.com/SeniAFC/status/630421475854557184

not promoting violence amongst fans in the slightest but :pal: :haha:

what has wenget done to us

[Power n Glory]

not promoting violence amongst fans in the slightest but :pal: :haha:

what has wenget done to us

I'm don't think he was talking to Arsenal fans.

[adzzzbatch]

They believed their own hype. Look how shell-shocked they were at conceding, they never got going again after that. Really, really poor from a team that has been shooting its mouth off for weeks now about being ready to challenge. Massive wake up call today, I only hope we recover as well as we did after the Villa defeat 2 years ago.

Yep after thumping everton, lyon and beating chelski every single one of them said "we're ready to challenge for the title now" Then they come out looking clueless from the off today. We never looked like scoring, neither did west ham but we gifted them the 2 goals and the win anyway and now we're lying dead last in the league after the first round of games it's pathetic.

[Munchies]

Apparently we have Palace away and Pool next (haven't checked the fixture list)

Tough games.

Could very well lose both of them

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We won't, we've had the result that sheds tears, we'll get a pounding for a week and get four points.

[Maestro]

I'm don't think he was talking to Arsenal fans.

think you're right, news coming out is they may been utd fans ..... in that case our mob should have piled in, defended Ty and thump em

[Letters]

He doesn't understand momentum. He never has, he never will.

What does that even mean? We won pretty much everything in pre-season, how much more momentum do you need?

Today was another balls up, how many sodding games are we going to have where their 'keeper is suddenly brilliant and the opponents score with literally every shot on target? :doh:

Anyway, we cannot afford another start like last season, have to show some bouncebackability and go on a run now.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I doubt we will show 'bouncebacability'. I do however expect that we will at some point put a decent run in, look great at times doing it and finish in the lower end of the CL places.

[Gubby Allen]

We won't, we've had the result that sheds tears, we'll get a pounding for a week and get four points.

Maybe, but I wouldn't be so sure. This season (and season 2018/19) in the cycle is the one where we start dreadfully and are about 8th place by December and then finish like a train to finish 4th. Next season (and season 2019/20) are the ones to dread when we start in title winning form and crumble after Xmas.

We've got plenty more bad games to endure yet in the next few months before the good times come along in 2016.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It seems to me that our problems seem to stem more from playing at home than away from home.

I think it's abundantly clear that there was a lack of preparation going into today's match, and the performance was as flat as the defeat to Swansea and the draw with Sunderland, where the away team will defend in numbers and let us have the ball because they are confident we will do nothing with it.

Letters talks about the frustration of a goalkeeper in form, but how many times did we test Adrian before going 2-0 down?

In the game against Swansea last season it was a similar story, 65 minutes before we register a shot on target

[Niall_Quinn]

What does that even mean? We won pretty much everything in pre-season, how much more momentum do you need?

Today was another balls up, how many sodding games are we going to have where their 'keeper is suddenly brilliant and the opponents score with literally every shot on target? :doh:

Anyway, we cannot afford another start like last season, have to show some bouncebackability and go on a run now.

He's clueless when it comes to maximising the effect of what has gone before. And he's a sea of contradictions. We'll go top of a CL group and then blow it by putting out a fucked up team selection, we lose and finish second, we draw Barcelona in the last 16. That's Wenger all over, resting players when they need to be playing, playing them when they have already been run into the ground, sticking with out of form players, dropping form players. Random bumbling as if he knows what the fuck he is doing, when after 10 years of watching it we know for a fact he doesn't have a clue.

Ox builds us an attacking outlet early in that game. Now either Ox decides to unilaterally change his role without permission, or the fool dives in and slams shut that single avenue we managed to establish. We were toothless after that. A kid at his first match could twig what was needed to build on that start. Wenger of course did the opposite and plunged us back into his horror ideal of tippy-tappy bullshit played out in front of a relaxing WH defence.

I wish the players would ignore him.

[Gubby Allen]

Shit from all concerned, especially Cech.



The team bought into their own hype and took West Ham for granted, who were brilliantly drilled and fit enough to close us down every time we were on the ball. There was a reason Cech lost his place at Chelsea and we've been reminded of why very quickly.

We conceded 13 goals in the last 20 games last season IIRC and had the best defensive record across the leagues. For the first time in eons, we had a real classy and solid unit at the back and top keeper. Probably the only area on the entire pitch that we didn't need some improvement in, we fiddled around with.

[Munchies]

on the game…
I think our performance was not convincing. On the two aspects of our game, going forward and defending. Overall we were punished. On top of that, I feel we gave two very cheap goals away and they were at the wrong moments - just before and after half-time with two minutes to go, and just after half-time. We gave ourselves a mountain to climb. West Ham looked a bit sharper than us, more advanced in preparation than us. In the end we wanted, but it was not convincing, not agile, not quick. Our passing was too slow and in the end we were punished.

on why it went wrong…
West Ham are a bit more advanced in their preparation than us. They’ve played many competitive games in the Europa League. I knew before game it would be tricky game on that front. A big part of it was not to concede, even if we played for a 0-0. The way we conceded the goal just before half-time, with experience we have in our team, is difficult to understand.
on weight of expectation. I felt we were a bit nervous and we rushed our game a bit. We didn’t always respect the basics. We wanted to be too quick going forward in first half. I don’t think we were too confident, I would rather say too nervous maybe.

on Petr Cech…
I haven’t spoken to him yet. I can’t see many individual convincing performances today so it’s difficult to single someone out.

on the goals…
I [haven’t analysed it] yet, no.

on not being incisive up front…
Our passing was not incisive enough. I bought Walcott on with 35 minutes to go and I had no time to bring him on. We conceded the second goal [before]. After that they defended deep and gained time - the usual thing you face when you play at home and are losing. I believe that we are maybe guilty at 0-0 of giving them a goal as soft as that.

on coming back from defeat…
It’s difficult but it’s part of our job. A successful season is how you respond to disappointments and it’s never a clear motorway. We have to respond quickly. We have a tricky start. Crystal Palace are a very good team, Liverpool are a very good team, and you could see again today that we are not completely there physically.

on the goal…
It was a collective one. I think there are many things to say about that. I knew that if the delivery was good, we would be in trouble before the free-kick was taken.

on conceding a set-piece…
The concentration and the organisation was not perfect. Positionally we were too far from our goal and gave them too much distance to run into. We killed ourselves.

on Cech and organisation…
Not only him. We have enough experience at the back. If you look at our back line, I think the youngest age is 30.

on transfers…
I would like to think that we are responsible to buy the players and the coaches, not the media. When you’re a pro footballer, you have to face your responsibilities and not always look at something else. Today we have to look at ourselves and think we were not good enough and not to think that these kinds of things are solutions for us. We were not good enough, we were not convincing. And that’s basically it. West Ham played well. Congratulations to them and hopefully we can bounce back quickly. Again, I can only repeat what I already said. If an exceptional solution turns up, we’ll do it. But after a defeat like that, it’s important not always to think we take a solution from outside.

on Reece Oxford…
He looked convincing but I need to watch it again. He did well. When we had the opportunities, our decision making was not always right, especially in the first half. We had made plenty of openings. Overall at 16 years of age it’s convincing what he did.


Read more at http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20150809/wenger-on-defeat-west-ham-and-cech#BwPXyWuivxCckREg.99

[Munchies]

West Ham were more prepared than us because they were in the Europa League

:haha:


I knew that if the delivery was good, we would be in trouble before the free-kick was taken.



FFS, what are you paid £8m a year for then. Fuck off

[Munchies]

Alexis training after the game
https://instagram.com/p/6LA85Yi6YN/

:bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

West Ham are a bit more advanced in their preparation than us. They’ve played many competitive games in the Europa League. I knew before game it would be tricky game on that front. A big part of it was not to concede, even if we played for a 0-0.

Sad, sad, sad, excuses.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

And it's bollocks anyway, I work in an office with a load of West Ham fans (going to take my stripes like a man) and the one thing I know from their Europa league matches is that Bilic has been playing second string teams, and this was the first time he put out a team he considered his strongest XI.

[Munchies]

Jack Wilshere getting 100k a week for being a fucking cripple

Yet he's on the cover of Mens Health
https://twitter.com/OptaParody/status/630416150002839554

:lol:

[Kano]

He's clueless when it comes to maximising the effect of what has gone before. And he's a sea of contradictions. We'll go top of a CL group and then blow it by putting out a fucked up team selection, we lose and finish second, we draw Barcelona in the last 16. That's Wenger all over, resting players when they need to be playing, playing them when they have already been run into the ground, sticking with out of form players, dropping form players. Random bumbling as if he knows what the fuck he is doing, when after 10 years of watching it we know for a fact he doesn't have a clue.

Ox builds us an attacking outlet early in that game. Now either Ox decides to unilaterally change his role without permission, or the fool dives in and slams shut that single avenue we managed to establish. We were toothless after that. A kid at his first match could twig what was needed to build on that start. Wenger of course did the opposite and plunged us back into his horror ideal of tippy-tappy bullshit played out in front of a relaxing WH defence.

I wish the players would ignore him.
Ox would've had done that himself. Wenger doesn't direct his players, he rarely leaves his seat and when he does he just stands in the technical area looking frustrated. The problem isn't that Wenger is restricting the team with his instructions, the problem is he is restricting the team by not handing out instructions. He leaves it all up to the players to figure out on the pitch. He is a man who explicitly trusts the intelligence of his players to figure out a way to win. That's why players like Ox and Ramsey don't develop because no-one is guiding their game, pointing out what they should and shouldn't be doing. That's why Ramsey gets in the way of Ozil and Ox is seen charging around defending as a right back, head down and giving the ball away on the edge of the box.

He put together teams years ago that had that intelligence and understanding because the core players spoke the same language, played together in their national team and became the best in the world in their positions. He bought them in the knowledge that their similarities would help them gel together. This squad doesn't tick many of those boxes, so it needs guidance from an experienced manager in order to sustain a real title challenge. A couple of cup wins isn't enough. We saw how little an effect it had last season in the league. But the players won't get that, so left to their own devices out there, the same naive mistakes will keep rearing their heads.

When you get old you remain stuck in your ways, Fergie did too but his mentality of freshening up the squad and guiding the players was there from day one. Wenger is still trying to do the same things he used with a new group of players who can't do it that way. That approach was very unique and could only exist in the period it did before the complete globalisation of game took away his advantages. He didn't have to be as tactically astute back then when only us and Utd were leading the league but it showed when we played in Europe every season how behind he was in that regard. We could blow everyone away in he league because it was full of pub teams. Now everyone in the league has money, training facilities, access to the same knowledge as everyone else and so Wenger has become a good manager, rather than the great one he once was. There are plenty of good managers around but that isn't enough to win you the big trophies or to compete for them regularly.

[Munchies]

Wouldn't even call him a good manager nowadays

Tactically he's shot

[Kano]

Wouldn't even call him a good manager nowadays

Tactically he's shot
That's the point - he was never tactically any good, it has just been highlighted more over the past decade.

Of course he's a good manager. He won a couple of cups in succession and never finishes below fourth. So he's good - but no longer good enough to lead the club to big success. Of course, there is an argument to say that he is doing a bad job because of the talent and resources he is wasting at his disposal, that a good manager would make the most of the tools at his disposal. I think that all depends on how you want to look at the argument really.

[Power n Glory]

on transfers…
I would like to think that we are responsible to buy the players and the coaches, not the media. When you’re a pro footballer, you have to face your responsibilities and not always look at something else. Today we have to look at ourselves and think we were not good enough and not to think that these kinds of things are solutions for us. We were not good enough, we were not convincing. And that’s basically it. West Ham played well. Congratulations to them and hopefully we can bounce back quickly. Again, I can only repeat what I already said. If an exceptional solution turns up, we’ll do it. But after a defeat like that, it’s important not always to think we take a solution from outside.

I wish someone would point out to him that we went almost a decade without a trophy and our recent success boils down to 'outside solutions' and buying better players. This is something he just doesn't get. He's had several cracks at this and he just has to accept he has to buy players to win things. We can see he's not the sharpest guy when it comes to tactics. We go two goals down and his solution is to throw on all our attacking players and that completely disrupt the balance of the team even further. He needs to buy a better striker and decide on his best 11 asap. After our last winning streak it shouldn't be that hard to work out!

[Injury Time]

Read more at http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20150809/wenger-on-defeat-west-ham-and-cech#BwPXyWuivxCckREg.99
Fuck off, fuck off again, and when you get there fuck right off. Cunt.

[fakeyank]

Fuck off, fuck off again, and when you get there fuck right off. Cunt.

:gp:

[Özim]

Here we go again, people kept saying it was different now because we had a bad start last season. Pre-season wins mean nothing, they're the equvalent of warm ups, a few wins and most people think everything is hunky-dory, what we needed this summer was a few quality signings, not just one goalkeeper, without those we'll be fighting for top 4 and nothing else as we always do.

Verdict: disappointed but not surprised.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I didn't think we quite had the squad to seriously...and I mean seriously challenge for the league before the Chelsea game and I'm still not sure we do now but I expected us to be way more with it today than we were.

A fully up to speed Alexis would have spared our blushes today but it shouldn't be down to him and it was almost a joke him even being in the squad to begin with, but for his sheer relentlessness to play and be involved.

[Niall_Quinn]

A fully up to speed Alexis would have spared our blushes today but it shouldn't be down to him and it was almost a joke him even being in the squad to begin with, but for his sheer relentlessness to play and be involved.

I found that astonishing too. Wenger claims it is difficult to sign a player because he would have to be top, top quality to give us more than we already have. I actually agree with that, only top tier will do. So if we have this squad full of players it is so hard to replace, why is Alexis on the bench at all if he is supposed to be getting up to match fitness? Was Wenger scared going into this game and needed a fail safe? He was embarrassed having to throw the kitchen sink, at home, against a well organised (look it up Wenger) but ultimately inferior opposition.

We got unlucky with Cech's performance. I doubt that will ever happen again in his case. But even so, Wenger's inability to set up the team and the tactics to break down a well drilled opposition is still there for all to see. How many years now? Every team is going to lose a few this season, but to be losing for the same old reasons no matter which players are on the pitch. Eventually Wenger will have to stand up and own these recurring problems. Not today though, today he was full of lame excuses.

Didn't want this to ruin Sunday, but it did. Big time.

[fakeyank]

Wenger out already ffs

To quote FakeYank

Wenger, the only manager who gets paid £8m a year to sit on his fuckin arse

:gp:

FY :bow:

Should be manager of Arsenal tbf.. :coffee:

[Munchies]

:gp:

FY :bow:

Should be manager of Arsenal tbf.. :coffee:

:lol:

--

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CL_3u9KW8AAGXIK.jpg

same shit, different season

[fakeyank]

Oooohhh look at the width on that team..

Wenger :bow:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

What an absolute waste.......why are we on almost every occasion not able to take advantage of another team dropping points.....we do it every time!!! It's like we feel sorry for the cu&ts.......why are we never ever mentally up for it......it's drives me fuc£ing crazy

[Letters]

I doubt we will show 'bouncebacability'. I do however expect that we will at some point put a decent run in, look great at times doing it and finish in the lower end of the CL places.
I think we'll challenge for the title. I'm not going to overreact after one game, that's the media's job.

By all accounts (on here at least) Chelsea were pretty rubbish and could have lost, they got lucky with a deflected goal. Utd were rubbish too and only won because of an own goal. We were actually pretty decent, we had 'one of those days' in front of goal (and, of course, their 'keeper was excellent - how often does that happen against us?) and West Ham only had 2 shots on target all day and scored both (again, how often does that happen against us?)

We can't afford too many days like that but playing like we did yesterday we're not going to lose many games. We're one game in, let's see where we are by Christmas. We have to properly challenge this year, we're good enough to.

[adzzzbatch]

Another thing that keeps happening is poor performances in the early kick offs 12:45, 13:30. The team never seems prepared. I think we will be in for a struggle next Sunday when we go to Palace, always a tough place to go.

[Marc Overmars]

:lol:

--

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CL_3u9KW8AAGXIK.jpg

same shit, different season

Giroud has his flaws but this type of thing is where I'll cut him some slack, he's obviously a striker who thrives off service but when there's no width he ends up dropping deep to join in, when he should really be pushing on waiting for the ball.

We'll instantly improve when Alexis is sharp but Theo should also be starting to maximise how direct we can play. Trouble is WUMger has a fetish for grouping together the tippy tappy brigade.

[Bumble]

I think we'll challenge for the title. I'm not going to overreact after one game, that's the media's job.

By all accounts (on here at least) Chelsea were pretty rubbish and could have lost, they got lucky with a deflected goal. Utd were rubbish too and only won because of an own goal. We were actually pretty decent, we had 'one of those days' in front of goal (and, of course, their 'keeper was excellent - how often does that happen against us?) and West Ham only had 2 shots on target all day and scored both (again, how often does that happen against us?)

We can't afford too many days like that but playing like we did yesterday we're not going to lose many games. We're one game in, let's see where we are by Christmas. We have to properly challenge this year, we're good enough to.
I wouldn't say there keeper was excellent, he did what a keeper is meant to do. I don't recall a single world class top drawer save he had to make. He even fumbled the ball a couple of times and no one was around to capitalise.

It is a results game. However I think if we do play like that more often than not we are going to struggle. We had possession but Chelsea had possession against us last weekend and lost. We didn't really look like scoring or creating a lot of chances. Not having Bellerin depressingly probably made a big difference. The way we play we need pacey full backs. So maybe even Gibbs and Bellerin for home games.

It is only one game in but dreams of an unbeaten season are already gone after the feel good pre-season and community shield.

Palace (a) then Liverpool (h) Newcastle (a) Stoke (h) and Chelsea (a) that's not going to be easy particularly the away games. But knowing us we will win the next four then lose to Chelsea and have to start again.

[Letters]

I never had dreams of an unbeaten season :lol:
We did lack little bit sharpness up front but it wasn't a terrible performance.
The league doesn't take shape for a bit - back in the day they didn't bother publishing tables at least for a few games. Now the do of course so the media can pore over them and over-analyse.

Let's see where we are by Christmas, but we cannot afford to start this season like we did last.

[Power n Glory]

Giroud has his flaws but this type of thing is where I'll him some slack, he's obviously a striker who thrives off service but when there's no width he ends up dropping deep to join in, when he should really be pushing on waiting for the ball.

We'll instantly improve when Alexis is sharp but Theo should also be starting to maximise how direct we can play. Trouble is WUMger has a fetish for grouping together the tippy tappy brigade.

I wouldn't. He's like a statue up front and doesn't help himself with his lack of movement. He spends way too much time wrestling with defenders, back to goal pushing them back trying to get an inch of space just so he can attempt a useless flick which usually results in us turning over possession and it's way too dependent on one of our midfield players making a good run. When crosses in for the back post he's too slow to get there. 5 attempts on goal. 2 on target. One I think was a weak header and the other was that shot that looked like it was going well wide but got deflected and keeper ended up making a save. In games like that were clear cut chances aren't that easy to come by, he's really not good enough and just misses the target.

[Power n Glory]

I think we'll challenge for the title. I'm not going to overreact after one game, that's the media's job.

By all accounts (on here at least) Chelsea were pretty rubbish and could have lost, they got lucky with a deflected goal. Utd were rubbish too and only won because of an own goal. We were actually pretty decent, we had 'one of those days' in front of goal (and, of course, their 'keeper was excellent - how often does that happen against us?) and West Ham only had 2 shots on target all day and scored both (again, how often does that happen against us?)

We can't afford too many days like that but playing like we did yesterday we're not going to lose many games. We're one game in, let's see where we are by Christmas. We have to properly challenge this year, we're good enough to.

It doesn't really matter about other teams and their performance. We're waiting on City's results but they're all ahead of us on point. This is an example where we need to match their results 'stride for stride' or go one better. When we're actually in the title race and everything is even. There is no point in going on a 10 game winning streak around February when we're way behind on points. It's very early but you saw the mountain we had to climb last season and you yourself say it's what cost us dearly. Will we learn from that this season is the question.

We weren't decent. We really weren't. You can't trump such results up to luck when they happen so often. Pay attention to the team selection for starters. It wasn't balanced and Wenger decided to disrupt a very good partnership between Cazorla and Coquelin, a huge reason why we had a good run last season, and it results in both players having very off games. Cazorla wasn't able to control the middle of the park with his passing and Coquelin was having to spread the ball around instead which is why we saw some off passes from him.

Instead we play Ramsey next to Coquelin and not only did Ramsey do a poor job as CM he smothered Ozil as well. I don't know why Wenger felt the need to tinker with the team like that but it shows he still doesn't know what works and why a particular group of players work. He could have rectified things with his subs, hook Ramsey off, bring on Theo, move Cazorla back to the centre with Coquelin but no! He destroys the balance of play again and then again by taking of Debuchy for Alexis.

You're right. We can't afford many games like that but I think we will see many more if Wenger doesn't come to a quick realisation about the balance needed to win the league. When teams lock up shop he still has no answer for it so even if we hadn't have lost the game with those Cech blunders, it could have easily been a draw based on what we saw from the first half. The attacking line up he sent out he's seen plenty of times and should know by now that too many ball to feet passers won't unlock an organised defence.

[LDG]

Our issue yesterday wasn't Giroud, though he clearly isn't Aguero / Suarez etc.

The issue was midfield, even if we did gift two goals.

They were all square, and all funnelled central. No width, no movement. The amount of times Cazorla received a pass, and Arteta'd it to Coq, who passed it back square again. Ramsey was shocking. AOC wasn't told to fuck off out wide, and we had nothing on the left apart from a poor Monreal.

Giroud had nothing really. No service, and had to keep dropping deep to get the ball.

Our shape was shite, and as we were so square, it's no wonder a 16 year old (credit to the lad) was able to boss us. With the quality we have, we should be passing triangles round the fella.

Of course we'll do better in other matches, but the main worry, is that there is STILL no instruction from the side lines when it's clear as day how unbalanced we were. It's shocking how a seasoned manager like Wenger still can't lead the team. All he needed to do was give a few instructions to the team, show them where they're going wrong.....it's basic shit. That's why we won't win the league under Wenger.

[Power n Glory]

Giroud has his flaws but this type of thing is where I'll cut him some slack, he's obviously a striker who thrives off service but when there's no width he ends up dropping deep to join in, when he should really be pushing on waiting for the ball.

We'll instantly improve when Alexis is sharp but Theo should also be starting to maximise how direct we can play. Trouble is WUMger has a fetish for grouping together the tippy tappy brigade.

If you have the highlights look at Giroud's movement at the moment where Ox goes on that mazy run taking on half of the West Ham team on his own. Giroud decides to make a near post run instead of back post and not really attempting to lose the defender marking the front post. Why make that run? He's always looking for ball to feet crosses and makes no use of his height.

[selassie]

I wish someone would point out to him that we went almost a decade without a trophy and our recent success boils down to 'outside solutions' and buying better players. This is something he just doesn't get. He's had several cracks at this and he just has to accept he has to buy players to win things. We can see he's not the sharpest guy when it comes to tactics. We go two goals down and his solution is to throw on all our attacking players and that completely disrupt the balance of the team even further. He needs to buy a better striker and decide on his best 11 asap. After our last winning streak it shouldn't be that hard to work out!

Yep, I think Wenger will dig his heels in even more now that the cries for strengthening the squad are getting louder. Everybody knows what we need but Wenger won't be told. He's more interested in finding internal solutions than going into the market to buy the missing pieces of the jigsaw. I don't even think we need much, we are only 1 at a push 2 players away from being favourites for the title IMO, obviously those signings would need to be "Sanchez" level type buys.

I do think we can put in a title challenge with the squad as is but everything has to fall in place, I.E. no injuries and everybody playing at a high level, already things are starting to fall apart with the injuries mounting, Bellerin out yesterday with a muscular injury, Jack out for a while to add to the list of the other serial crocks. I imagine we are going to pick up some more muscular injuries as the season progresses so I don't really think it's realistic of us to sustain a credible title challenge.

[Power n Glory]

Our issue yesterday wasn't Giroud, though he clearly isn't Aguero / Suarez etc.

The issue was midfield, even if we did gift two goals.

They were all square, and all funnelled central. No width, no movement. The amount of times Cazorla received a pass, and Arteta'd it to Coq, who passed it back square again. Ramsey was shocking. AOC wasn't told to fuck off out wide, and we had nothing on the left apart from a poor Monreal.

Giroud had nothing really. No service, and had to keep dropping deep to get the ball.

Our shape was shite, and as we were so square, it's no wonder a 16 year old (credit to the lad) was able to boss us. With the quality we have, we should be passing triangles round the fella.

Of course we'll do better in other matches, but the main worry, is that there is STILL no instruction from the side lines when it's clear as day how unbalanced we were. It's shocking how a seasoned manager like Wenger still can't lead the team. All he needed to do was give a few instructions to the team, show them where they're going wrong.....it's basic shit. That's why we won't win the league under Wenger.

Giroud is part of the problem because he stifles the midfield even further with his movement. Players have nothing to work. Even with the chances he gets he doesn't score. He had a more clear moment that was waved off side early in the first half. A close call and another lines men may not have given it but Giroud still couldn't finish the chance even if luck was on our side.

We were poor in all areas to be fair but we're supposed to be a team with goals in us according to Wenger. He needs to have a rethink. With a congested midfield like that, you can't have a player like Giroud up front because he exasperated the problem.

[Power n Glory]

Yep, I think Wenger will dig his heels in even more now that the cries for strengthening the squad are getting louder. Everybody knows what we need but Wenger won't be told. He's more interested in finding internal solutions than going into the market to buy the missing pieces of the jigsaw. I don't even think we need much, we are only 1 at a push 2 players away from being favourites for the title IMO, obviously those signings would need to be "Sanchez" level type buys.

I do think we can put in a title challenge with the squad as is but everything has to fall in place, I.E. no injuries and everybody playing at a high level, already things are starting to fall apart with the injuries mounting, Bellerin out yesterday with a muscular injury, Jack out for a while to add to the list of the other serial crocks. I imagine we are going to pick up some more muscular injuries as the season progresses so I don't really think it's realistic of us to sustain a credible title challenge.

Injuries are problem but let's hope they bless us again by taking out problematic players and leaving Wenger with fewer options to screw up.

[AFC Leveller]

Our issue yesterday wasn't Giroud, though he clearly isn't Aguero / Suarez etc.

The issue was midfield, even if we did gift two goals.

They were all square, and all funnelled central. No width, no movement. The amount of times Cazorla received a pass, and Arteta'd it to Coq, who passed it back square again. Ramsey was shocking. AOC wasn't told to fuck off out wide, and we had nothing on the left apart from a poor Monreal.

Giroud had nothing really. No service, and had to keep dropping deep to get the ball.

Our shape was shite, and as we were so square, it's no wonder a 16 year old (credit to the lad) was able to boss us. With the quality we have, we should be passing triangles round the fella.

Of course we'll do better in other matches, but the main worry, is that there is STILL no instruction from the side lines when it's clear as day how unbalanced we were. It's shocking how a seasoned manager like Wenger still can't lead the team. All he needed to do was give a few instructions to the team, show them where they're going wrong.....it's basic shit. That's why we won't win the league under Wenger.

http://c.files.bbci.co.uk/A2B9/production/_84775614_averagepositionsofarsenalplayersagainstw estham.jpg

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The thing is, this result is a disaster but it doesn't rule us out of the title, but it will if we fail to learn from it

The bollocks that simply the players played badly or we were unlucky or West Ham had more game time under their belt is the kind of nonsense that means we won't learn.

Wenger seems to be more interested in fitting his best players into the team rather than putting out a side that is cohesive.

Cazorla cannot be played on the wings, it doesn't work he will just drift into the centre. Ramsey playing with Coquelin doesn't work, he doesn't work hard and track back.

Monreal is too slow to be our first choice left back

Giroud is not good enough, but look at the goals he does score, how many times does he score from a wide player getting in behind the defence....a lot.

[Niall_Quinn]

The thing is, this result is a disaster but it doesn't rule us out of the title, but it will if we fail to learn from it

The bollocks that simply the players played badly or we were unlucky or West Ham had more game time under their belt is the kind of nonsense that means we won't learn.

Wenger seems to be more interested in fitting his best players into the team rather than putting out a side that is cohesive.

Cazorla cannot be played on the wings, it doesn't work he will just drift into the centre. Ramsey playing with Coquelin doesn't work, he doesn't work hard and track back.

Monreal is too slow to be our first choice left back

Giroud is not good enough, but look at the goals he does score, how many times does he score from a wide player getting in behind the defence....a lot.

But Monreal is one of our most improved defenders and in defensive terms deserves to be the starter. The trouble comes when we ask him to do the job a wide player should be doing, or when he's left brutally exposed when the wide player has fucked off to the middle and isn't tracking back. Anyway, there's no point our fullbacks getting forward because we don't have strikers who can be bothered getting in the box for the 1 out of 10 crosses that might find a target.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I was talking more about playing the ball on the deck in behind the defence and pinging it across the box, 50% of the time it will be cleared, but another 50% of time either a striker or our midfield will get on the end.

[Power n Glory]

Nothing wrong with Monreal. He earned his spot and kept Gibbs out the first team and rightly so. He didn't have a great game but I can't see Gibbs contributing anything more. He has no end product and just drifts up field totally clueless to what's behind him.

[Munchies]

Nothing wrong with Monreal. He earned his spot and kept Gibbs out the first team and rightly so. He didn't have a great game but I can't see Gibbs contributing anything more. He has no end product and just drifts up field totally clueless to what's behind him.

:gp:

[Özim]

I think we'll challenge for the title. I'm not going to overreact after one game, that's the media's job.

By all accounts (on here at least) Chelsea were pretty rubbish and could have lost, they got lucky with a deflected goal. Utd were rubbish too and only won because of an own goal. We were actually pretty decent, we had 'one of those days' in front of goal (and, of course, their 'keeper was excellent - how often does that happen against us?) and West Ham only had 2 shots on target all day and scored both (again, how often does that happen against us?)

We can't afford too many days like that but playing like we did yesterday we're not going to lose many games. We're one game in, let's see where we are by Christmas. We have to properly challenge this year, we're good enough to.

Not convinced myself, as I said before not much has changed from last season and we ended up way behind then.

You say those teams could have lost, fact is though they didn't and we did at home as well against a team who aren't all that frankly and we weren't even down to ten men.

Too many excuses from Wenger and his supporters, as you've demonstrated a keeper is only as good as you make him look, if you give him no chance to save something he won't, we just make them look good.

Our own keeper had a mare which didn't help but once again it's a poor start, something you were convinced would be different this season because of a "change in mentality".

What's clear to me is that it's not the mentality that changes things but something Wenger seems very reluctant to rely on, quality new signings, he always pipes out with the you can't always look outside for answers line whenver things go wrong and yet the players who have made the most difference in recent times have been exactly that, top quality players from outside the club.

I'm resigned to another battel for 4th, because in reality without any new quality signings that's all we're good for nothing more, we don't have a manager who can drag and extra 10-15% out of his players or who can outsmart the opposition manager with clever tactics, that leaves us reliant on the signing of top quality players who just make things happen and don't rely on a guy who doesn't frankly know what he's doing on the sidelines when the team is on the field.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't think signings would have made the difference, apart from Giroud I don't think we can say that the players aren't good enough
Apart from Cech I don't think we can say there are individual errors, just a lazy, complacent team performance propagated by a manager who was too arrogant to bother putting out a properly prepared game plan.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Nothing wrong with Monreal. He earned his spot and kept Gibbs out the first team and rightly so. He didn't have a great game but I can't see Gibbs contributing anything more. He has no end product and just drifts up field totally clueless to what's behind him.

I thought Gibbs played well pre season, and whilst I agree we sold Monreal short without any proper protection in front of him....he can be ponderous at times and I sometimes think he doesn't do enough to stop crosses coming in on his side

[Globalgunner]

Gibbs is worse than Monreal on any level except pace, another example of a player who in 10 yrs has not improved a jot under Wenger tutelage. To me our problem is simply our style of play, too contrived too rehearsed, too predictable and easy to defend against. When all those tricks and flicks come off you applaud, but we are very easy to suss out. Wenger is absolutely obsessed with the aesthetics of his game rather than its results. He can afford to as no one is in charge at this club.

[Özim]

I don't think signings would have made the difference, apart from Giroud I don't think we can say that the players aren't good enough
Apart from Cech I don't think we can say there are individual errors, just a lazy, complacent team performance propagated by a manager who was too arrogant to bother putting out a properly prepared game plan.

If we'd got a top class striker he might have taken what chances we didn't create, as it is we're stuck with player up front who miss the majority of their opportunities.

From what I saw a quality DM might have stopped the 2nd goal for them as well, so I personally think it would have made a difference.

Thing is with Wenger he needs players who will take the game by the scruff of the neck and he's tactically clueless and doesn't make the right substitutions at the right time either.

I was somewhat suprised people expected us to challenge for the title tbh considering how few changes we've made over the summer, this is typical Wenger though, he always leaves things to chance rather than being well prepared.

[hobson's choice]

Question for all the tactics people(cause i know nothing about that stuff)

Over the past 4 seasons, we have a team, that posess the ball a lot. But struggles to create chances.

Why is this?

[Özim]

I thought Gibbs played well pre season, and whilst I agree we sold Monreal short without any proper protection in front of him....he can be ponderous at times and I sometimes think he doesn't do enough to stop crosses coming in on his side

Gibbs is a liability IMO, he can't defend for toffee and is injured 95% of the time, he's more of a winger than a full back.

[Dein-machine]

I argued with most on here that Cech wasn't the signing that others were making out. He's a good keeper but playing behind the Chelsea defense would have made most keepers look good. The likes of Terry, Ivanovich & Cahill would not allow the free headers in the centre of the box that we often concede, Cech wouldn't have had to come of his line & get caught out. Watch Merts for the second goal, watch his reaction when its blatantly obvious that the lad was going to shoot. Cech isn't used to uncontested shots coming at him from 20 yards.
So 1st lesson Wenger should have seen from Sunday & previous seasons is that Merts is too slow both in pace & in reacting to danger. For a guy his size, he is not dominant enough defending set pieces.
Going forward, he has not learnt from the end of last season. Ozil & Cazorla are nullified when Ramsey's getting in the way & when Giroud is on the pitch. Giroud plus no pace either side means we are so easy to play against. Home games against SUnderland & Swansea at the end of last season were awful, when he tried a bit of pace against West Brom & then Villa in the final - what happened, 8 goals. Great, we think, surely Le Prof has learnt this time but no, lets go back to tippy tappy 40 yards from goal, all trying to play of the statue of Giroud.
I am really not bothered about signing new players - only under a new manager with an ability to change & make the right decisions to win games, rather than selfishly trying to prove a point to all his doubters, will new signings give us a chance of winning the top prizes. Our regular 4th place & 2 cup wins have been won inspite of Wenger not because of him.

[Dein-machine]

Question for all the tactics people(cause i know about that stuff)

Over the past 4 seasons, we have a team, that posess the ball a lot. But struggles to create chances.

Why is this?

The question is 100% valid.
The answer should be simple to a top quality manager who is paid £8 mill a year but our manager can't seem to find the answer.
Why is this?

[Power n Glory]

Question for all the tactics people(cause i know about that stuff)

Over the past 4 seasons, we have a team, that posess the ball a lot. But struggles to create chances.

Why is this?

It's the balance of the squad and Wenger's philosophy on keeping possession, staying patient and trying to create 2 on 1 situations where space opens up. A well organised team only has to stay narrow and compact to deal with us and it's been like that for the past 10 years not just 4 seasons. Any team that 'parks the bus' we have no answer for.

It certainly doesn't help when we have 4 central midfielders crammed into the team along with a striker that can't create space for himself or take on a player to create shooting opportunities for himself. In a crowed box you'll never see Giroud shift the ball to evade a blocking defender to buy himself more time for shot. He hasn't got it in him.

Ozil has all the ability in the world but doesn't do the above even though he's capable. He'll make the perfect ball to feet pass from a tight angle but what use is that if the ball is only going to travel a few years to a player standing close by? And if the receiver happens to be someone like Ramsey, one of the rare few on the pitch unafraid of shooting, his poor touch or slow decision making will kill the move or he's not in the right position to do anything useful with the ball anyway.

We really need Sanchez on the pitch. One of the few players that will take on his man and fathom out a chance for himself to shoot. We also need Walcott because his off the ball movement can't be ignored by the opposition.

[Kano]

I think we'll challenge for the title. I'm not going to overreact after one game, that's the media's job.

By all accounts (on here at least) Chelsea were pretty rubbish and could have lost, they got lucky with a deflected goal. Utd were rubbish too and only won because of an own goal. We were actually pretty decent, we had 'one of those days' in front of goal (and, of course, their 'keeper was excellent - how often does that happen against us?) and West Ham only had 2 shots on target all day and scored both (again, how often does that happen against us?)

We can't afford too many days like that but playing like we did yesterday we're not going to lose many games. We're one game in, let's see where we are by Christmas. We have to properly challenge this year, we're good enough to.

We had six shots on target, while West Ham had four. Hardly one of those days. Once in the past 24 years has a team lost the first game and gone onto win the title and that was under Fergie. So the first game is a key indicator of where things go from there. We're good enough to challenge but the manager is not good enough to pull it all together anymore.

[Power n Glory]

Question for all the tactics people(cause i know about that stuff)

Over the past 4 seasons, we have a team, that posess the ball a lot. But struggles to create chances.

Why is this?

Posted this up a while back but just in case this was missed.

It really sums up where we're going wrong. The philosophy is so out of date. Players are fitter and won't tire as easily with our possession play. Also that first paragraph sums up why we're so soft. The philosophy is flawed and we approach most of our games this way.

http://performance.fourfourtwo.com/technique/mikel-arteta-pass-your-opponents-off-the-park


Don’t join the battle

“Take the game where you want. If you get drawn into the battle you will suffer. If you start making fouls and giving away throw-ins and corners then you lose your momentum, which is hard to get back. Stick to your passing game and keep the ball in their half. If you start forcing the play and giving the ball away you give them the opportunity to hit you on the counter attack. Arsene Wenger is so calm. He tells us to keep playing our football until the last minute of the game, and that has paid off.”

Tire out the opposition

“Make the opposition run for 10, 20, 30, 40 minutes – they will struggle to maintain their work rate for the entire game. Once they get tired, they start to make mistakes and you can draw them into two versus one or three versus two situations. This is your opportunity to find the spare man. If you keep the ball then the opposition will get tense and want to get aggressive. This will force them to break out of their positions and this is when you expose the space. Patience – that’s the difference between a good player and a top player.”

Confidence is key

“It doesn’t matter what system you play, or how hard the opposition press, you can find an advantage somewhere on the pitch. You have to pass with speed and precision and believe not only in yourself, but your team-mates, because sometimes you have to put them in trouble with a one-touch pass in a tight area of the pitch. You have to play the ball to their safer side – their stronger foot or where there’s more space for them to turn into. Sometimes just playing the ball into his feet isn’t good enough.”

ARTETA ON PASSING THE ARSENAL WAY

Work your way out of any dead end with this intricate drill, straight from the Gunners training ground

“At Arsenal, we do a lot of exercises where you have to play through the mannequins, but you can use cones.

This is a great drill because it’s real, you’re moving and finding the holes to play the diagonal pass, just like in a match.

The drill starts with player one passing the ball through two mannequins to player two, who with one touch steps through the next two mannequins.

He then passes the ball to player three on the outside. Player three returns the pass and begins his run around the three mannequins, forming a triangle.

Playing one-touch football, player two and three exchange passes between mannequins one, two and three.

Once player three has run past mannequin three he plays the ball back to player two and sprints around mannequins four and five.

Receiving the pass, player two takes one touch through the mannequin gate and plays a diagonal pass to player three as he runs past mannequin five.

The process repeats itself, with each player swapping positions in a clockwise direction. This drill will help you during a game when out to create two versus one situations against a defender.

It’s also great for finding the spare man. Think of player two as a midfielder and player three as a full back or winger on the overlap.”

[Chippy]

I argued with most on here that Cech wasn't the signing that others were making out. He's a good keeper but playing behind the Chelsea defense would have made most keepers look good. The likes of Terry, Ivanovich & Cahill would not allow the free headers in the centre of the box that we often concede, Cech wouldn't have had to come of his line & get caught out. Watch Merts for the second goal, watch his reaction when its blatantly obvious that the lad was going to shoot. Cech isn't used to uncontested shots coming at him from 20 yards.
So 1st lesson Wenger should have seen from Sunday & previous seasons is that Merts is too slow both in pace & in reacting to danger. For a guy his size, he is not dominant enough defending set pieces.
Going forward, he has not learnt from the end of last season. Ozil & Cazorla are nullified when Ramsey's getting in the way & when Giroud is on the pitch. Giroud plus no pace either side means we are so easy to play against. Home games against SUnderland & Swansea at the end of last season were awful, when he tried a bit of pace against West Brom & then Villa in the final - what happened, 8 goals. Great, we think, surely Le Prof has learnt this time but no, lets go back to tippy tappy 40 yards from goal, all trying to play of the statue of Giroud.
I am really not bothered about signing new players - only under a new manager with an ability to change & make the right decisions to win games, rather than selfishly trying to prove a point to all his doubters, will new signings give us a chance of winning the top prizes. Our regular 4th place & 2 cup wins have been won inspite of Wenger not because of him.

I argued ten years ago with the Guy's on here saying that Wenger had lost the plot and needed to go. I got banned. :shrug:

[fakeyank]

I argued ten years ago with the Guy's on here saying that Wenger had lost the plot and needed to go. I got banned. :shrug:

You'd still get punched in the face at the stadium if you said Wenger lost the plot. Goes to show how dumb people are..

[Munchies]

I argued ten years ago with the Guy's on here saying that Wenger had lost the plot and needed to go. I got banned. :shrug:

:lol:

I got banned from the first GW too

[Static]

Ray Parlour speaks some sense.

"If you look at Man City, you know Sergio Aguero is their main man, for Manchester United it's Wayne Rooney and at Chelsea, it's Diego Costa. Who is it at Arsenal?

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/9944175/benzema-would-be-fantastic-for-arsenal-says-ray-parlour

[Dein-machine]

I argued ten years ago with the Guy's on here saying that Wenger had lost the plot and needed to go. I got banned. :shrug:

10 years ago after the early success the mods obviously thought you were a yid wum. Now, to be banned for criticising the fumbling old git would leave GW with about 4 members. Says it all really.

[Master Splinter]

Rooney is a shell of the player he once was though. And he has not been a consistently great goal-scorer ever. Most United fans seem to agree that he's almost a liability at times these days. The only people keeping the myth alive are the Stepford football pundits and media hype churners.

[Static]

Rooney is a shell of the player he once was though. And he has not been a consistently great goal-scorer ever. Most United fans seem to agree that he's almost a liability at times these days. The only people keeping the myth alive are the Stepford football pundits and media hype churners.

I'm pretty sure that when he (Rooney) played as a proper striker (not a number 10 or a midfielder like he has been lumped with as of late) scored 34 goals in 44 appearances (09/10) and 34 goals in 43 appearances (11/12).

He'll score more than Giroud (easily) this season and is perceived to be the weakest out of Aguero/Costa/Rooney which is worrying. If we want to challenge we need a big time striker.

[Letters]

He'll score more than Giroud (easily) this season.
What are you basing that on? His scoring record has been awful the last three seasons, Giroud has outscored him in each.
(Goals to games ratio is marginally better for Giroud)

[Letters]

The question is 100% valid.
The answer should be simple to a top quality manager who is paid £8 mill a year but our manager can't seem to find the answer.
Why is this?

Thank you for clarifying how much he earns, I didn't know that before as no-one had ever mentioned it.

[Power n Glory]

Rooney needs a new challenge and they should have let him go.

[Letters]

We had six shots on target, while West Ham had four. Hardly one of those days.
We were comfortably the better side but I agree we were a bit toothless up front. But it was one of those days in the sense that West Ham had 2 shots on target, both went in. How often does that happen?!


Once in the past 24 years has a team lost the first game and gone onto win the title and that was under Fergie. So the first game is a key indicator of where things go from there. We're good enough to challenge but the manager is not good enough to pull it all together anymore.

I was wondering about that - how often that happens. But I don't buy that the results of the first game are an indicator of anything. Clearly the side who wins the league hasn't lost many games so the chance of one of those being the first day is pretty low. I still don't buy it actually has any bearing on where the title ends up. If we're in the mix around Christmas and, better yet, around Easter, then I don't think the fact we lost the first game will be relevant. What we can't do is start like we did last year, 12 games in we were 15 points behind and had no chance. We have to pick up a few results and stay in touch from the start this year, then we have a chance.

[Dein-machine]

Thank you for clarifying how much he earns, I didn't know that before as no-one had ever mentioned it.

Sorry to upset you but it is Wenger i'm talking about not you. You do get a bit touchy.

[Letters]

Yes. I'm actually crying. Uhuh.

4

:tiphat:

[Özim]

What are people basing their renewed optimism with regards challenging for the title? An FA Cup win? Since last season very little has changed and we weren't good enough then, so why we suddenly become title chasers now when we've invested very little in the squad is a mystery to me, even more so when other clubs have invested more on trying to improve.

I think we'll find the season will pan out much like previous seasons, simply because we're only too happy to settle with what we have on the basis that they won a few games last season and had a decent run in some meaningless pre-season friendlies.

Unless we bring in a striker and perhaps a DM I think we'll fall short again, I've heard a lot about a new mentality, is this the mentality that has seen us capitulate in our first game of the season when expectations we're so high, if so it doesn't bode well.

[LDG]

We were comfortably the better side


I think that's doing West Ham a bit of a dis-service. Yeah, they may not have played fancy-pants football, but they defended better than us, won the midfield, and took both of their chances. They deserved the win.

We had quite a few half chances and blocked shots, but I don't think we were the better side, and certainly not comfortably better.

[Dein-machine]

Yes. I'm actually crying. Uhuh.

4

:tiphat:

Don't get too down Letters. Its hard when you are unable to see what everyone else can see & your hero's only summer signing has just had a mare. I'm sure we'll be up their again challenging the might of the Spuds, Southampton & Liverpool for that 4th place spot again.

[Özim]

We were comfortably the better side but I agree we were a bit toothless up front. But it was one of those days in the sense that West Ham had 2 shots on target, both went in. How often does that happen?!

Seems to happen quite often with us to be fair, as does the opposition keeper producing a world beating performance, must be something we're doing wrong if you ask me.

I don't think too many will agree we were the better side, the general consensus was that we were pretty poor in all departments.

[Static]

What are you basing that on? His scoring record has been awful the last three seasons, Giroud has outscored him in each.
(Goals to games ratio is marginally better for Giroud)

He has been playing either as a number 10 or midfield for the last 3 years though.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Letters, how were we comfortably the better side?...based on what? Possession?

By that rationale City were comfortably better than us when we beat them 2-0 in January.

[fakeyank]

I think that's doing West Ham a bit of a dis-service. Yeah, they may not have played fancy-pants football, but they defended better than us, won the midfield, and took both of their chances. They deserved the win.

We had quite a few half chances and blocked shots, but I don't think we were the better side, and certainly not comfortably better.

:gp:

Letters, I think you were watching a re-run of an old game. Someone cheated you... you werent watching the live game. Its not necessarily a bad thing tbh..

[fakeyank]

What are people basing their renewed optimism with regards challenging for the title? An FA Cup win? Since last season very little has changed and we weren't good enough then, so why we suddenly become title chasers now when we've invested very little in the squad is a mystery to me, even more so when other clubs have invested more on trying to improve.

I think we'll find the season will pan out much like previous seasons, simply because we're only too happy to settle with what we have on the basis that they won a few games last season and had a decent run in some meaningless pre-season friendlies.

Unless we bring in a striker and perhaps a DM I think we'll fall short again, I've heard a lot about a new mentality, is this the mentality that has seen us capitulate in our first game of the season when expectations we're so high, if so it doesn't bode well.

I dont agree that buying will solve our issue. I have said this before and I'll say it again.. we can bring in Ronaldo and Messi, and we'd still fuck it up because Wenger will probably play them at CB. The squad as it is (minus long term injuries) is as good as any out there in England. The issue is our style of play, tactics and mentality. That needs to change before we can even think of winning the title. Unfortunately we will not win the PL with the dinosaur as manager. Top 4 it is..

[Power n Glory]

We were comfortably the better side but I agree we were a bit toothless up front. But it was one of those days in the sense that West Ham had 2 shots on target, both went in. How often does that happen?!



I was wondering about that - how often that happens. But I don't buy that the results of the first game are an indicator of anything. Clearly the side who wins the league hasn't lost many games so the chance of one of those being the first day is pretty low. I still don't buy it actually has any bearing on where the title ends up. If we're in the mix around Christmas and, better yet, around Easter, then I don't think the fact we lost the first game will be relevant. What we can't do is start like we did last year, 12 games in we were 15 points behind and had no chance. We have to pick up a few results and stay in touch from the start this year, then we have a chance.

First game results aren't indicators to how the season will play out but in terms of spotting the pattern with team selection, preparation and subs, it indicates we haven't learned much from last season. If Wenger goes into the next game with the same team selection or playing key players out of position again, regardless of the result, it shows he's not learning from his mistakes.

[fakeyank]

He has been doing the same shit for almost a decade now. He is not going to learn now.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He has been doing the same shit for almost a decade now. He is not going to learn now.

Again I think our performances against the top sides in 2015 would suggest otherwise.

[Dein-machine]

:gp:

Letters, I think you were watching a re-run of an old game. Someone cheated you... you werent watching the live game. Its not necessarily a bad thing tbh..

He hardly ever watches us - think he mainly sees us on match of the day. I watched that aswell, but we were still shit.

[fakeyank]

Again I think our performances against the top sides in 2015 would suggest otherwise.

You can cherry pick some results here and there, and then I will cherry pick some results from somewhere else, and we'll go round and round. Let's just look at it in simple terms... in the last decade, how would you rate Wengers tactics, substitutions, player purchases etc? How would you rate our football?

I look at all of the above and I see nothing that tells me he has learnt anything.. sure, there are glimpses of promise (every season) but you know that our manager will suck everything out of any momentum that we gain!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

All I'm saying is that our approach to these games is different than in previous years which shows that he is capable of going on a learning curve, he is slow to change, stubborn, still fails to learn from mistakes? Yes and by the time he adapts it's because he's under pressure to achieve the only thing he is under pressure to achieve.

It's not a defence of him, I think the fact that he has shown he can
Learn from his mistakes and adapt his tactics but chooses not to a lot, is deplorable.

[Niall_Quinn]

We were comfortably the better side but I agree we were a bit toothless up front. But it was one of those days in the sense that West Ham had 2 shots on target, both went in. How often does that happen?!



I was wondering about that - how often that happens. But I don't buy that the results of the first game are an indicator of anything. Clearly the side who wins the league hasn't lost many games so the chance of one of those being the first day is pretty low. I still don't buy it actually has any bearing on where the title ends up. If we're in the mix around Christmas and, better yet, around Easter, then I don't think the fact we lost the first game will be relevant. What we can't do is start like we did last year, 12 games in we were 15 points behind and had no chance. We have to pick up a few results and stay in touch from the start this year, then we have a chance.

We were better for 20 minutes but we didn't have the striker to make that superiority count. Not the first time we haven't been able to capitalise on having the advantage and it certainly won't be the last. After that the Hammers contained us comfortably. Way too comfortably. True, they only had a couple of shots, exactly according to their game plan. Contain and make the most of any chances that fell their way. They did that, mission accomplished for them. Can't knock them for it, they have a manager who knew what he wanted his team to achieve, he communicated his requirements and they went out and delivered what he wanted. So in reality the Hammers were the comfortable ones and the score lines reveals they were better too.

You know, the run-in last season wasn't relevant, the pre-season wasn't relevant, the Charity Shield wasn't relevant and now the first game doesn't tell us anything either. But must we really wait until Easter for the great reveal of what we already know? Buys a certain manager some time I suppose. So we can go on one of those runs that is apparently highly relevant.

Come on Letters. Yesterday is a neon indicator 100ft tall. Our manager is still up to his old tricks. We should be looking backwards rather than forwards if we want to know what happens next. Been there, done that. Over and over again.

[GP]

http://i.imgur.com/41r8iQ2.jpg

[Maestro]

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yfAeMtcURg0/hqdefault.jpg

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ah Comical Ali, you had to admire his comic timing and straight faced delivery....like an Iraqi Leslie Nielson

[Power n Glory]

All I'm saying is that our approach to these games is different than in previous years which shows that he is capable of going on a learning curve, he is slow to change, stubborn, still fails to learn from mistakes? Yes and by the time he adapts it's because he's under pressure to achieve the only thing he is under pressure to achieve.

It's not a defence of him, I think the fact that he has shown he can
Learn from his mistakes and adapt his tactics but chooses not to a lot, is deplorable.

He's very slow. Last season it looked as though he took a different approach but that was last season. What about this season? We can go as far back as 2005/06 Champs League final run to a see a dramatic shift in tactics but we didn't and haven't built on that. That Champs League final was almost 10 years ago and we're still underestimating opponents, not doing our research and getting caught out.

In fact, winning against the big teams is no indicator of our progress. Take the 2006/07 season, the only big team we lost against in the Prem was Liverpool away. We beat them at home and in the FA Cup and that 6-3 beating in the League Cup. Went to Old Trafford and won, beat Utd again at home, our youngsters only lost to Chelsea in the league cup final but in the league we never lost to them. Drew both home and away.

But in the Prem we lost to teams like Sheffield Utd 1-0. Bolton 3-1, Fulham 2-1, West Ham did the double on us! We drew to Portsmouth twice! Drew twice against Middlesbrough! FA Cup we get knocked out to Blackburn after replay!

People have put too much emphasis on beating the big teams. It's always been the small teams that park the bus that gave us trouble and we looked forwards to the big teams because we'd expect a more open game. We really need to get a handle on beating well organised teams. It's always been our problem and I remember back then the rhetoric was that we had shown we can beat the best teams in the league and Europe but we lose concentration and focus against the smaller teams.

It's nothing to do with the mentality of our team because we have a more mature team compared to back then and we have better players. It's the tactics that haven't changed and Wenger needs to figure out how to deal with teams that park the bus. He never has and what happened was bigger teams started adapting the same approach and looking to hit us on the break. He needs to get a grip on this and learn to adjust his approach for every team.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

To be fair again, what I say shouldn't be taken as support of Wenger, it's just merely pointing out that as I say he has the ability to be adaptable he's just too stubborn.
This whole suggestion that he's somehow too stupid or incompitent to change his ways seems to me lacking in substance, unfortunately it's more the fact that he's entrenched....look at the way last week he got defensive in the post match interview when responding to Mourinho's jibe that we abandoned our philosophy to win.
He is so fixated with this winning in the right way, just as I think he was taken back by the accusation of us being big spenders that it's quite possible he could have reverted to type.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think Wengers solution to teams that park the bus is the interchangeable front three, but with Sanchez not fit, he arrogantly decided to shoe horn what he considered his best available side into his chosen formation and send them out there in the belief that we deserved to win and we would.

[Kano]

We were comfortably the better side but I agree we were a bit toothless up front. But it was one of those days in the sense that West Ham had 2 shots on target, both went in. How often does that happen?!



I was wondering about that - how often that happens. But I don't buy that the results of the first game are an indicator of anything. Clearly the side who wins the league hasn't lost many games so the chance of one of those being the first day is pretty low. I still don't buy it actually has any bearing on where the title ends up. If we're in the mix around Christmas and, better yet, around Easter, then I don't think the fact we lost the first game will be relevant. What we can't do is start like we did last year, 12 games in we were 15 points behind and had no chance. We have to pick up a few results and stay in touch from the start this year, then we have a chance.

Stats can be used and twisted to back up any argument of course but one that says roughly 96% of the time the champions do not lose their opening game is certainly an indicator. We're not talking in the 60/70% range here, that stat is extraordinarily one-sided. On the surface it seems absurd to write off our chances based on one game. My reckoning as to why it is so important is because immediately you are on the back foot mentally, optimism and confidence has been punctured very quickly and you are chasing everyone else. Winning the league is all about momentum on and off the pitch and starting the season so tamely is a microcosm of wider issues that will come back to hinder you again later on.

[Power n Glory]

Players interchanging doesn't solve that problem either. An organised compact defence won't man mark and stray out of position just because one of our players has gone wide or dropped deep. We've always played a fluid formation under Wenger with Henry going wide, Pires cutting in, Ljunberg cutting in whilst Bergkamp dropped deep. We used to cut teams to ribbons that way. It never stopped and we'd still play that way when we had Cesc, Ade, RVP and Hleb. The solution is we need every player to be mobile, able to pass with speed, trap and control the ball whilst moving with ease....Barca level skill and training to pull off this style off successfully.

[Letters]

I don't think too many will agree we were the better side, the general consensus was that we were pretty poor in all departments.

That's because a lot of people on here are completely unable to separate performance from result.

[Letters]

Letters, how were we comfortably the better side?...based on what? Possession?

By that rationale City were comfortably better than us when we beat them 2-0 in January.

Based on me watching the game and thinking that we were the better side and that both goals were against the run of play. If you disagree then fair enough, but that's the way I saw it.

[Letters]

He hardly ever watches us - think he mainly sees us on match of the day. I watched that aswell, but we were still shit.

Watched it all :tiphat:

[Letters]

Stats can be used and twisted to back up any argument of course but one that says roughly 96% of the time the champions do not lose their opening game is certainly an indicator. We're not talking in the 60/70% range here, that stat is extraordinarily one-sided. On the surface it seems absurd to write off our chances based on one game. My reckoning as to why it is so important is because immediately you are on the back foot mentally, optimism and confidence has been punctured very quickly and you are chasing everyone else. Winning the league is all about momentum on and off the pitch and starting the season so tamely is a microcosm of wider issues that will come back to hinder you again later on.
You can't win the league in the first 10 games but you can certainly lose it. If we start like last season then yeah, we're back to 'there's always next season' and #WengerOut. I'm not panicking just yet but it's not an ideal start, to say the least!

[Kano]

That's because a lot of people on here are completely unable to separate performance from result.

You'd struggle to find many fans anywhere that thought we played well.

Six shots on target does not equal domination or a team bang on form. Just because we had possession that doesn't mean we were in charge of the game. West Ham didn't come to boss the game, we played right into their hands, they set up to sit back, hustle us off the ball and hit us on the break. They were the team in control of the game because they knew what we'd do and performed their tactical plan perfectly. When you have over twenty shots at goal you would expect at least half of those to be on target, that's the sign of a team on form but lacking a finishing touch. I can't remember a single chance that had me on the edge of seat or really rueing our misfortune. Their keeper wasn't pulling off great saves or doing anything out the ordinary. We were allowed plenty of time to have the ball because West Ham knew when you play that system right against us, we struggle to break it down. Ball possession doesn't necessarily mean domination.

[Power n Glory]

That's because a lot of people on here are completely unable to separate performance from result.

Speak for yourself. You're the first to pull up numbers and stats on our games before analysing what actually happened on the pitch. Pointless winning streaks without any context to what was going on in the season or where we were in the table. Even if we win a game where we play badly, you'll shut down negative comments about the performance as if everyone should be happy about the actual result and ignore the performance.

[Niall_Quinn]

You can't win the league in the first 10 games but you can certainly lose it. If we start like last season then yeah, we're back to 'there's always next season' and #WengerOut. I'm not panicking just yet but it's not an ideal start, to say the least!

Nobody is panicking. Yawning more like. It's not like we haven't seen this before.

I don't think there has been as much optimism in the last few years as there was before kick-off. That was quickly deflated as reality bit in. There's always this feeling that with these players we should be right up there challenging for everything. The players are good enough to do that - most of them anyway. It's the organisation, the preparation, consideration of the opponent in front of us, the ability to change track in-game when things are bogged down. These areas are where the predictability lies. Same patterns, same story. We'll do okay this season but it'll be these problems which we haven't solved that will cost us when those fine margins between winning and almost doing something crop up. We'll almost do something again this year. Nearly.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Stats can be used and twisted to back up any argument of course but one that says roughly 96% of the time the champions do not lose their opening game is certainly an indicator. We're not talking in the 60/70% range here, that stat is extraordinarily one-sided. On the surface it seems absurd to write off our chances based on one game. My reckoning as to why it is so important is because immediately you are on the back foot mentally, optimism and confidence has been punctured very quickly and you are chasing everyone else. Winning the league is all about momentum on and off the pitch and starting the season so tamely is a microcosm of wider issues that will come back to hinder you again later on.

It seems to me to be a meaningless statistic, United won the title in 2008 despite not winning any of their opening three games.
City won the title in 2014 despite only getting four points from their first six games away from the Etihad.
Of course you don't want to be playing catch up, but after one game you can only be three points behind
I think if we fail to get a minimum of 15 points from our next seven games we can count ourselves out of the title race.

[Kano]

It seems to me to be a meaningless statistic, United won the title in 2008 despite not winning any of their opening three games.
City won the title in 2014 despite only getting four points from their first six games away from the Etihad.
Of course you don't want to be playing catch up, but after one game you can only be three points behind
I think if we fail to get a minimum of 15 points from our next seven games we can count ourselves out of the title race.
I'd agree if it wasn't so resoundingly in favour of one outcome. What convinces me is that it is a 'fair' or 'equal' stat in that it compares how a team starts against their final position. Given the consistency of the two there is definitely an alignment there. Looking at the first few games or six away games is like many of the 'new' stats you hear in modern football that appear to either enhance a short term positive or negative perception of a team. You can do that across any number of games or short term permeations to come to a conclusion. I think looking at the first set of games this weekend you get a sense of who is going to be making a serious fist of it, it's the same every season. Maybe I'm nuts for putting myself behind this stat but it feels quite logical to me.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Spend 10 minutes composing a post then lose it after pressing post as a result of the auto log out. :doh:

Anyway the full backs have got off lightly on our first goal the other day and the interchanging needs to work both ways. Giroud might be able to run it down the wing from time to time but we then need somebody who is going to do what he would do or be where he would be!

[GP]

Hmm, I'm not sure I completely agree with Letters, but he's not completely wrong either. Their goals were agains the run of play and were completely avoidable. We just didn't create enough. Or anything.

[Munchies]

Tony Pulis "I got the tactics wrong and I'll take responsibility for the result" - video (https://twitter.com/Memz_Dogi/status/630854117532020736)

Not like Wenger saying they had Europa League, it's not fair they were more prepared

[Xhaka Can’t]

That's because a lot of people on here are completely unable to separate performance from result.

We are the better side, but we weren't the better side on Sunday.

[Bumble]

We are the better side, but we weren't the better side on Sunday.

I think that is it. We didn't play well and lose, we didn't create a lot.

I still think we need a defensive player, I don't Merte is going to cut it all season and I worry if Coq's performance was a one off or with added pressure and expectation now going to be the norm.

[Marc Overmars]

We are the better side, but we weren't the better side on Sunday.

Yep. There are plenty of games where we keep knocking on the door to no avail but on Sunday we was not one of those. We just didn't react at all to conceding the first goal, the game completely passed us by after that. West Ham looked far more likely to score a third than we did a first due to hitting us on the counter when our powder puff attacks broke down.

The better team on the day definitely won, possession means sod all if you're not stretching a defence and working the keeper. We made it very easy for West Ham, Bournemouth will probably give them more of a game.

[Power n Glory]

I think that is it. We didn't play well and lose, we didn't create a lot.

I still think we need a defensive player, I don't Merte is going to cut it all season and I worry if Coq's performance was a one off or with added pressure and expectation now going to be the norm.

I can never understand why Merts gets so much attention. It must be the height thing. I’d say he should have done better and made sure our line wasn’t so high for the freekick but other than that he wasn’t bad. I’ve seen people mention him for the second goal and say he should have done better to close the shot down. I’ll have to look at that again, but what caught my attention for that goal was the way Kos just put his hands behind his back and stood like a statue when he could have also charged the shot down. Also, I wasn’t impressed with Kos for the first goal and the lack of awareness on the runners. But overall I don’t think either player are a big problem. I’m just knit picking.

Coquelin didn’t have a bad game either. He just made some bad passing decisions and I think that boils down to the fact that he was left alone in the middle of the park so he was taking more risks with his passing. When next to Cazorla we won’t have that problem. It’s the Ramsey effect. When he advances too far up the field it leaves our DM’s exposed. With Arteta we had a similar problem Arteta would go for the sideways safety pass instead of risky.

[Power n Glory]

Now that's just mean! :lol:

[Letters]

Give the WUMming a rest. I deleted that post, in future I'll just start banning people from threads.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I literally don't see the harm in it, I don't like using WUM because I can't abide some of these acronyms

But what is the problem?, if people get wound up than that's their problem. If stuff is posted that is meant to attack someone on a personal level I can understand (but with a few exceptions we are all strangers here). I've personally never said anything to another poster that I regret saying, and equally I've never received anything that I seem to be unacceptable abuse.

People have said it doesn't contribute to discussion?, well I'm sorry to say this but we aren't the panel on Question Time we aren't always going to confine ourselves to the hot topics of the day.

[Power n Glory]

Letter's is a funny guy. Deletes my post about the way he and Doug wums and then leaves his own threat up about banning people. :lol:

Here are some recent examples of Doug and Letters on the 'WUM'

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3327&page=8&p=467373#post467373


Anyone seen Zim?

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3327&page=13&p=467578#post467578


Yeah but you're an idiot.

Another example. Maestro asks you genuine question, Doug wums and you encourage it with a :gp: instead of a banning threat and delete.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3321&page=6

Hypocrisy at its finest.

HCZ makes a valid point.

[Letters]

:lol: OK, fine. Guilty as charged on some of the above. But let's all (me included) try and cut out the personal stuff.

[LDG]

:lol: OK, fine. Guilty as charged on some of the above. But let's all (me included) try and cut out the personal stuff.

Fuck off you twat

[Letters]

You're not nice :upset:

[Syn]

Maccy's absence is proving costly. Letters make me mod, I'll clean this shit up.

[Munchies]

Fuck off you twat

:lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

I literally don't see the harm in it, I don't like using WUM because I can't abide some of these acronyms

But what is the problem?, if people get wound up than that's their problem. If stuff is posted that is meant to attack someone on a personal level I can understand (but with a few exceptions we are all strangers here). I've personally never said anything to another poster that I regret saying, and equally I've never received anything that I seem to be unacceptable abuse.

People have said it doesn't contribute to discussion?, well I'm sorry to say this but we aren't the panel on Question Time we aren't always going to confine ourselves to the hot topics of the day.

Shut the fuck up you poo pants!

[Niall_Quinn]

Seriously though, censorship and threats - :doh:

[Letters]

Seriously though, ******ship and threats - :doh:

:cool:

[Niall_Quinn]

:cool:

Not funny matey - censorship can't be justified under any circumstances, ever. Yes you can say it's your property so your rules, fair enough. But all that achieves, with respect to censorship, is an attempt to excuse yourself the inexcusable. If it makes you feel happy then great, but the principle remains entirely intact and unharmed.

Another thing I can't get my head around. What can't we have the odd punch up? What's wrong with that between a bunch of blokes and football fans? It's not like anyone is actually suffering harm. And I say this without sarcasm, but it's not as if there's an avid readership to protect. It's just us drunken fucks here, so what's the problem with the odd punch up? What do we need a nanny?

[Niall_Quinn]

I should add that I do appreciate the effort certain people put into providing this forum, for free, so we can spout a load of shit and blow off steam. Definitely appreciated. But if we aren't going to make a mark by being the most visited Arsenal fan forum in the world (despite the fact I'm posting here), the let's make a mark by being the most anarchic, fucked-up, anything goes Arsenal fan forum on the Internet.

But for fucks sake, don't be ordinary. Anything but run-of-the-mill.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'll start.

Maestro - come on then mate. If you think you are hard enough. Let's have it.

[Master Splinter]

N_Q 's mum is bitch.

And his kids are gay.

Like his dad.

[Niall_Quinn]

Anyway, the community itself is the most effective censor - based on humanitarian responses rather than bullshit rules or vague and unilateral ideas of what is acceptable and what's not. If somebody persists in being an arsehole they'll end up getting shunned. That's how it used to work long before the censor's pen and wank PC came along. And if people are being unjustly targeted then other will jump in to help target themdefend them. You know how it happens. The community can police itself and does.

You should ask Cripps back btw. He should never have been banned. He was banned for nothing.

[Niall_Quinn]

N_Q 's mum is bitch.

And his kids are gay.

Like his dad.

I'm fucking telling! :censored:

[Niall_Quinn]

Anyway, you are probably talking about that fake NQ bloke on TV - in which case I agree.

[Master Splinter]

You should ask Cripps back btw. He should never have been banned. He was banned for nothing.

I think he may have been banned for persisting in his arseholey tendencies.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think he may have been banned for persisting in his arseholey tendencies.

So he followed the crowd - why is that a banning offence?

[Master Splinter]

So he followed the crowd - why is that a banning offence?

He had long ago left the crowd behind and ascended a new plane of internet warriorism.

You could say he was the best in the world at what he did.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Shut the fuck up you poo pants!

You swore you'd never mention the time i shat myself!!

[Niall_Quinn]

You swore you'd never mention the time i shat myself!!

You overlooked the fact I'm a lying cunt, like you always do.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You overlooked the fact I'm a lying cunt, like you always do.

Explain that to my sister whose carrying your child

[alexander]

Pretty sure there will be a link to this on another teams fans forum `goonersweb has gone into meltdown!` (followed by laughing emoji)

[Niall_Quinn]

Explain that to my sister whose carrying your child

This is what happens when the lads miss the start of the season. Letters' pen will be smoking.

[Power n Glory]

I think he may have been banned for persisting in his arseholey tendencies.

I don't know. Was it all unprovoked and was he being baited? It works both ways because I can see back and forths with the antics on here, like today, but it's Dean Machine that gets threatened with a ban and posts deleted while others don't.

Cripps had his moment but he could contribute to a discussion. Wouldn't mind having him back. A lot of good posters gone to be honest.

Anyway, back to the football talk and Arsenal.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'll start.

Maestro - come on then mate. If you think you are hard enough. Let's have it.

I'd be careful if I were you. I'm not saying Maestro is hard, but he wrestles alligators for rent money in Azerbaijan.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'd be careful if I were you. I'm not saying Maestro is hard, but he wrestles alligators for rent money in Azerbaijan.

This is the Internet mate, I can be a big shot without ever having to face him for real.

[Master Splinter]

I don't know. Was it all unprovoked and was he being baited? It works both ways because I can see back and forths with the antics on here, like today, but it's Dean Machine that gets threatened with a ban and posts deleted while others don't.

Cripps had his moment but he could contribute to a discussion. Wouldn't mind having him back. A lot of good posters gone to be honest.

Anyway, back to the football talk and Arsenal.

I was being frivolous with N_Q there.

But if I can be serious for a moment, it was quite clear that Cripps/Ach was always looking for a way he could be as antagonising, childish, contrary and obnoxious in every moment of his internet life. He'd created a virtual character and had got so lost in it that it stopped being funny, if it ever was. Everyone on here acts like an idiot or gets into an argument from time to time, but he made it his duty to do it in every thread. I don't know what he was banned for and I'm not saying you should be banned for being an ultimately harmless clown on a forum, but if you can't restrain yourself from polluting the whole place for even a second, then you're asking for it in fairness.

[Niall_Quinn]

Anyway, back to the football talk and Arsenal.

B O R I N G !

[Niall_Quinn]

I was being frivolous with N_Q there.

But if I can be serious for a moment, it was quite clear that Cripps/Ach was always looking for a way he could be as antagonising, childish, contrary and obnoxious in every moment of his internet life. He'd created a virtual character and had got so lost in it that it stopped being funny, if it ever was. Everyone on here acts like an idiot or gets into an argument from time to time, but he made it his duty to do it in every thread. I don't know what he was banned for and I'm not saying you should be banned for being an ultimately harmless clown on a forum, but if you can't restrain yourself from polluting the whole place for even a second, then you're asking for it in fairness.

But people must have wanted to engage with him or else he would have been ostracised over time. Blame the people who kept responding. One of them was Letters IIRC.

[Letters]

Anyway, back to the football talk and Arsenal.
Wenger Out!

[Maestro]

I'd be careful if I were you. I'm not saying Maestro is hard, but he wrestles alligators for rent money in Azerbaijan.

right, just come back ....had popped out to Azerbaijan. Rent is paid for the next 6 months

now where's that cunt NQ, and which bitch on pumps deleted my post about a kid and his ball????

[Maestro]

censorship, zionism, hitlerism, mugabeism .....what would this world be without dictators, boring

[Maestro]

I don't know. Was it all unprovoked and was he being baited? It works both ways because I can see back and forths with the antics on here, like today, but it's Dean Machine that gets threatened with a ban and posts deleted while others don't.

Cripps had his moment but he could contribute to a discussion. Wouldn't mind having him back. A lot of good posters gone to be honest.

Anyway, back to the football talk and Arsenal.

Cripps got banned because he was grabbing too much of the WUM limelight, if the little bastard could see this place now

[Power n Glory]

I was being frivolous with N_Q there.

But if I can be serious for a moment, it was quite clear that Cripps/Ach was always looking for a way he could be as antagonising, childish, contrary and obnoxious in every moment of his internet life. He'd created a virtual character and had got so lost in it that it stopped being funny, if it ever was. Everyone on here acts like an idiot or gets into an argument from time to time, but he made it his duty to do it in every thread. I don't know what he was banned for and I'm not saying you should be banned for being an ultimately harmless clown on a forum, but if you can't restrain yourself from polluting the whole place for even a second, then you're asking for it in fairness.

I could say the same about another poster on here to be honest. I don't think Cripps was that bad. Match reaction threads he could put together an argument. Only a few disagreements with him but I don't ever remember him winding me up and being obnoxious for the sake of it. Maybe you guys had your own problems, I don't know. But I never had that sort of problem with the guy.

[PGFC]

:lol: OK, fine. Guilty as charged on some of the above. But let's all (me included) try and cut out the personal stuff.


Fuck off you twat

:haha:

[Power n Glory]

Sorry, I'm killing the vibe a little.

Fuck you, Splinter!

[Niall_Quinn]

Sorry, I'm killing the vibe a little.

Fuck you, Splinter!

And the horse he rode in on, tbf

[Maestro]

And the wooden bench he rode in on, tbf

you mean

[Master Splinter]

I could say the same about another poster on here to be honest. I don't think Cripps was that bad. Match reaction threads he could put together an argument. Only a few disagreements with him but I don't ever remember him winding me up and being obnoxious for the sake of it. Maybe you guys had your own problems, I don't know. But I never had that sort of problem with the guy.

I don't think I've had a serious e-battle with anyone, so it's nothing to do with that. Just an impartial observation of a poster. And the reason he was OK with you was probably because he agreed with your views views on players and Wenger at that particular time. I recall him being a positive poster when I first started on GW and then he became the polar opposite. He was never genuine in his viewpoint because he was always playing a character. It was quite easy to spot.

And it's not really worth discussing anymore, so back to the N_Q bashing. Or Arsenal debate.

[Niall_Quinn]

So I'm glad to see the mod's quick reactions stopped this thread turning into a farce. Censorship works!

[Master Splinter]

And the horse he rode in on, tbf

Harsh way to describe your fat sister.

[Niall_Quinn]

Harsh way to describe your fat sister.

Well she slimmed down.

[Letters]

Lunatics taken over the asylum, tbh

[Niall_Quinn]

Lunatics taken over the asylum, tbh

One person, and only one person, started it.

Take a bow son.

[Xhaka Can’t]

To be fair, there is fuck all to be said anymore as far as Arsenal are concerned, so we may as well talk shite and acknowledge the fact that NQ's favourite drink Is Cherry B

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My favourite drink is the tears of starving children

[Xhaka Can’t]

My favourite drink is the tears of starving children

:lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

My favourite drink is the tears of starving children

IDS posts on GW :bow:

We've made it!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

IDS posts on GW :bow:

We've made it!

Fuck!!! I've been rumbled

[Dein-machine]

All I said was that GW was in meltdown & look what's happened - I never wum, inc the bit about Dougie

[GP]

I never wum

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

Me either.

[fakeyank]

I miss Cripps.. I had an e-battle with him back in the days. However, over time I recognized his greatness. I wonder what he is up to..

[hobson's choice]

I miss Cripps.. I had an e-battle with him back in the days. However, over time I recognized his greatness. I wonder what he is up to..

Posting on another forum

[Letters]

I miss Cripps.. I had an e-battle with him back in the days. However, over time I recognized his greatness. I wonder what he is up to.
About 20 stone by now, I reckon.

[Marc Overmars]

Cripps is a good guy.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Interesting that Bilic is now being hailed as a genius for pretty much setting out his stall in a way that has been employed by countless other managers to defeat a Wenger team.

[Injury Time]

Cripps is a good gay.

But I guess that was his choice.

[Power n Glory]

He’s an experienced coached. Way too early for that sort of assessment but the standard in the Prem is getting better. Bilic at West Ham, Koeman at Southampton, Advocat at Sunderland, Ranieri at Leicester, McClaren at Newcastle. It doesn’t take a genius to beat a Wenger side these days but he may be in for a few shocks this season if not careful. We can’t take anyone lightly anymore.

[Power n Glory]

But I guess that was his choice.

Hey, it's not a choice. :lol:

We really need to bring him back. What forum has he gone to? I thought everyone had shut down and just gone to Twitter.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It was a choice. He just made the wrong choices too often. I'm sure he's in a better place where hie can run free.

[Power n Glory]

Being gay is a choice? :blink:

[Static]

Being gay is a choice? :blink:

No one is actually born gay. It's a fact.

[Power n Glory]

No one is actually born gay. It's a fact.

Really? Is that a fact?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Being gay is a choice? :blink:

:lol: I missed IT's edit.

IT :threaten:

[GP]

Do you know any gay babies? Seen any toddlers listening to Elton John or wearing skinny jeans?

Therefore, gayness is a choice. FACT.

[Power n Glory]

If you can choose, does that mean most people chose to be straight? Is it that simple?

[Kano]

Course, more birds innit.

[Marc Overmars]

Derailed GW threads. :bow:

[I am invisible]

Do you know any gay babies? Seen any toddlers listening to Elton John or wearing skinny jeans?

Therefore, gayness is a choice. FACT.

My 2 year old nephew watches Frozen about 10 times a day, and has all the plastic figures. And he's a spud.

[Niall_Quinn]

Derailed GW threads. :bow:

Anything is better than discussing our last game.