Match Reaction Palace 1-2 Arsenal

[Niall_Quinn]

A vital, depressing win.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Pub crawl. We're on it.

Actually we played really good football until Wenger went all defensive.

[Niall_Quinn]

We have the players to win this league.

Now we just need a manager.

[topgun]

We have the players to win this league.

Now we just need a manager.

:gp:

[Kano]

Thank you Alexis for being such a hungry, football-mad bastard.

[AFC Leveller]

I think some of us on here are being too harsh, yes Wenger did try to fuck things up with the defensive subs but lets be honest, todayn was all about getting that first win and taking the pressure off. Sanchez couldnt play the full 90 and Ozil wasnt gonna track back as Palace were chasing the equaliser.

We played well, their keeper made about 6-7 saves, we passe dit well and should have score more. Credit where its due, we won at a very difficult place.

[Marc Overmars]

Played relatively well, got our noses in front, took the best attackers off, invited pressure, saw it out.

We're back!

[Niall_Quinn]

I think some of us on here are being too harsh, yes Wenger did try to fuck things up with the defensive subs but lets be honest, todayn was all about getting that first win and taking the pressure off. Sanchez couldnt play the full 90 and Ozil wasnt gonna track back as Palace were chasing the equaliser.

We played well, their keeper made about 6-7 saves, we passe dit well and should have score more. Credit where its due, we won at a very difficult place.

The pressure came from a shocking loss to West Ham. At home.

[AFC Leveller]

The pressure came from a shocking loss to West Ham. At home.

Yes i agree but we needed a win more than anything else today to put that nightmare to bed.

[Master Splinter]

How many battling, scruffy, narrow wins do we need to be in the same bracket as the rest of the brave, heroic, battling Premier League fodder?

I'm quite insulted we're not praised for eking out so many pubtacular wins.

Ozil, Monreal, Cazorla, Alexis good today. Should have been about 1-5. Let's hope we're more clinical against Liverpool.

And bring back Szczesny Wenger you psycopath.

[Master Splinter]

The Liverpool game is a Monday night match. :sick:

Can't we play at a reasonable time for once FFS?

[Power n Glory]

On another day that could have been a draw. Coquelin was very lucky and Wickham should have scored. Saying that, we could have been out of sight from the first half.

Wenger won't learn about balance so we can only hope the players turn up for every match.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes i agree but we needed a win more than anything else today to put that nightmare to bed.

We need some sort of structure and organisation to build on. Yes of course we need three points but pubbing them out and relying on individuals pulling something out of the bag to compensate for the lack of a basic strategy for the season and tactics on a game by game basis is way too random to sustain a realistic challenge. That's why I said a vital and depressing win. We've seen this. We know how it goes from here.

Manager will need to go before we can craft these players into a title winning unit. It's self-evident. Has been for a long time but it's hard to part ways with a manager who has been so instrumental to everything that has happened at the club for two decades, including treating us to some of the best football we'll probably ever see. Difficult but necessary if we want to see a title again. And we should want that given the players we have here now.

[AFC Leveller]

The Liverpool game is a Monday night match. :sick:

Can't we play at a reasonable time for once FFS?

Our first 3pm kick off is the 12th of Sep against the Stoke cunts.

[AFC Leveller]

We need some sort of structure and organisation to build on. Yes of course we need three points but pubbing them out and relying on individuals pulling something out of the bag to compensate for the lack of a basic strategy for the season and tactics on a game by game basis is way too random to sustain a realistic challenge. That's why I said a vital and depressing win. We've seen this. We know how it goes from here.

Manager will need to go before we can craft these players into a title winning unit. It's self-evident. Has been for a long time but it's hard to part ways with a manager who has been so instrumental to everything that has happened at the club for two decades, including treating us to some of the best football we'll probably ever see. Difficult but necessary if we want to see a title again. And we should want that given the players we have here now.

I dont think today was about individual performances pulling us through, although Alexis has more desire and ability than most of the other 10 players. However, i do think today was a starting point, a game we needed to win first and foremost and a game we should have won comfortably.

Lets just hope the manager doesnt hamper us like he has done before and plays his best side from now on instead of benching the pacey players. We have an excelent first 11 plus about 5 or 6 others who claim a spot as well so im hoping this season is gonna be different.

We need to build momentum now, starting against Liverpool next week. Newcastle and Stoke after then Chelsea.

[alexander]

Good to get the win, i was concerned because palace are a strong team now, and were never going to be a pushover. 3 points in the bag, onwards and upwards.

On another note, does NQs every post have to bang on about how shit Wenger is? Not that it is tiring or anything :ilt: Nothing is going to change for the next season at least.

[Syn]

Bit clinical enough. Ripped them apart in the first 30 mins, should've been out of sight. Need better decision making by everyone in the final 1/3. Ramsey's far too selfish.

coquelin lucky, but also needs more help. Should've bought Schneiderlin, really.

[AFC Leveller]

"Last week we had a bit of a stroll and thought we would win the game.

That, for me anyway, is more worrying than the actual loss. the manager admitting that his players took West ham lightly. This isnt the first time he says something like this and its gonna happen again.

[Niall_Quinn]

Good to get the win, i was concerned because palace are a strong team now, and were never going to be a pushover. 3 points in the bag, onwards and upwards.

On another note, does NQs every post have to bang on about how shit Wenger is? Not that it is tiring or anything :ilt: Nothing is going to change for the next season at least.

And nothing is going to change the season after that if more people don't start banging on about how shit Wenger is. Not as a person, of course, but as a manager.

[fakeyank]

Great win by the players, despite the fact the manager tried to fuck things up. Not only are the players playing against the opposition, they also have to play against the manager.. this will be an uphill battle!

[LDG]

Thought we played quite well for the first 30 and should have had three at leat before they equalised.

Really sloppy defending for their goal by Kos, and thought we looked poor defensively all round. Why does it take us half a season to get organised at the back....Cech hasn't settled it at all, in fact, it looks worse!

Good 3 points though at a tough place.

[Niall_Quinn]

I dont think today was about individual performances pulling us through, although Alexis has more desire and ability than most of the other 10 players. However, i do think today was a starting point, a game we needed to win first and foremost and a game we should have won comfortably.

Lets just hope the manager doesnt hamper us like he has done before and plays his best side from now on instead of benching the pacey players. We have an excelent first 11 plus about 5 or 6 others who claim a spot as well so im hoping this season is gonna be different.

We need to build momentum now, starting against Liverpool next week. Newcastle and Stoke after then Chelsea.

Do you see a single indication things will be different? Anything at all? Look at the first two games, what do you see?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Our first 3pm kick off is the 12th of Sep against the Stoke cunts.

I'm there dude.

[Syn]

He’s a great player to watch, isn’t he? Like a dye, seeping into the cracks, filling the gaps, making them his own. Picking out the pass you didn’t even spot on Sky Plus. Drifting, moving, teasing, toying: always present but never there. This was a wonderful showing from Özil, and had we not become somewhat accustomed to his peculiarly tangential genius by now, he would surely have been the man of the match.

But actually, he’s just as counter-intuitively cerebral when Arsenal are defending. Specifically, when they’re defending free-kicks or corners. Watch Özil as the bodies begin to amass in the penalty area. He’s there, he’s watching, occasionally he’s even marshalling or pointing. Özil’s spatial awareness is insane, and his ability to spot gaps before they even occur is equally handy at both ends of the pitch.

When the ball comes in, players start running towards the goalmouth. Except Özil. He goes in the other direction, trotting out towards the edge of the penalty area, about 20 yards out. Always looking for the space. Not only does it cover the area of the pitch most susceptible to a long shot, but you watch the number of times the ball gets cleared to that precise area.

And now, Özil’s in space. With the ball. Arsenal can counter-attack. It happened twice here, and the first time ended with a chance that Sanchez really should have scored. (One of the men haranguing Sanchez for not squaring the ball, by the way, was lazy lazy Mesut Özil, who had sprinted from the edge of his own penalty area to the opposition six-yard box in about 10 seconds.) You watch the number of times Arsenal counter-attack from defensive set-pieces this season. Özil will be at the centre of most of those moves, mark my words.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11806106/Crystal-Palace-1-Arsenal-2-Five-things-we-learned.html

[Niall_Quinn]

Also:


There’s this old joke about an rich old lady who buys herself a Rubens painting. About a week later, she’s got a friend over for tea, and the friend asks if she can see the new painting. So the woman gets up and walks down two flights of stairs, into the basement, which is filled with gardening tools and rusting household items and all those sorts of things. The woman switches on the light. And there, partially obscured by a dusty billiard table, hangs the Rubens.

They stare at the Rubens for a moment. Then the friend says: “It’s beautiful. But why have you put it the basement?”

“Ah,” the woman replies. “That’s where there was a spare hook.”

Anyway, let’s talk about Santi Cazorla. Cazorla was man of the match here, but he shouldn’t have been, because Özil had another of those games when you physically need to grab him by the hair to get the ball off him. Perhaps that’s why he’s had it cut short. Always one step ahead.

We’ll get to Özil in more depth later. The thing about Cazorla – and really, the thing about Arsenal more generally – is that it’s one of those clubs where everybody wants to play in the centre. The centre is where all the fun happens. Cazorla wants to play in the centre, and so does Mesut Özil, and so does Alexis Sanchez, and so does Oxlade-Chamberlain, and so do Aaron Ramsey and Jack Wilshere, and so does Theo Walcott, and so do Nacho Monreal and Calum Chambers. Petr Cech may have signed as a goalkeeper, but he did so with a very clear understanding that he would be allowed to challenge for the No10 role in time.

In an attempt to solve the enduring riddle of how you get Özil, Sanchez and Cazorla into the same team, Wenger has tried putting Cazorla out on the wing, but if you do that he simply drifts inside like a homing pigeon. So here we are: Cazorla now sits much deeper, a deep-lying playmaker rather than a defensive midfielder, but it’s a distinction that only matters when you have the ball. When Arsenal had the ball here, Cazorla was excellent. This should not surprise anyone, because Cazorla is an excellent player. He’s also the only Arsenal player who ever looks like taking a long shot, so you could argue that playing a bit deeper actually suits him.

The problem comes when you lose the ball, and if you break down that Crystal Palace goal you can see it more clearly. Admittedly, there’s a string of errors here: Monreal doesn’t see Yannick Bolasie behind him, and Laurent Koscielny turns his back on the shot. And let’s give all due credit to Joel Ward to a fabulous shot.

But where does he get the time and space? You can see Özil throwing his arms up accusingly, asking who was supposed to be covering. Coquelin’s just been fighting a fire over on the other side of the pitch. Alexis is still running back. The man who should have been on the scene, meanwhile, is just jogging into the picture, like the guy who turns up at your front door at 8am clutching 24 cans of Grolsch, asking: “Is the party still going on?” It’s Cazorla.

You could sum up Cazorla’s afternoon thus: when Arsenal had the ball, he looked like the best player on the pitch. When they didn’t, he looked ordinary. You could argue that he was even partly responsible for Coquelin’s booking, as it came just after Cazorla had failed to win the ball in the centre circle with a limp tackle.

You could argue it wasn’t really a problem here, given Crystal Palace’s openness – even if they’d scored six, you’d still have backed Arsenal to go up the other end and score seven. But the problem isn’t when you lose the ball against Crystal Palace. It’s when you lose the ball against Chelsea or Manchester City or even Liverpool, Arsenal’s next opponents, who will have been watching with interest. Cazorla’s feet are so good that he’ll win his fair share of tackles, but you can’t trust him to win the ball like a defensive midfielder, and you can’t trust him to cover the same areas of the pitch as a defensive midfielder. And anyway, why would you? It’s not what he’s good at.

Of course, we all know the answer. That’s just where there happens to be a spare hook.

Jonathan Liew must be new, because he's actually watched the game.

[Syn]

He's a good writer. I think he's a spud though, unfortunately.

Spot on about Cazorla/Wenger btw.

[adzzzbatch]

The Liverpool game is a Monday night match. :sick:

Can't we play at a reasonable time for once FFS?

I think the later the better with us tbf.

[GP]

Played well. Looked in control throughout.

Should have scored more.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Did what we needed to do in the end... not too dismayed about the subs and I thought Cech had a good game though I missed the opening 20 minutes....

[Maestro]

Wenger In

[Globalgunner]

Good result but overall we won the game because Palace were up for it. Bouyed by their fist game win ond our own dismal display against West ham, they believed they could win it. Pardew also is always up for a tussle with Wenger. Bottom line is player for player we are at least twice as good as palace and it should have been a comfy win. If we had a striker like Henry then it would have been 3-0 before it was ever 1-1.

I am optimistic about our chances of making the CL places for a record 19th season. maybe Mourinho will do us a favour and beach the bad ship Chelski with his insanity this season making 2nd place very feasible for us.

[Power n Glory]

Nothing new learned after that game. As expected Cazorla and Coquelin made for a better and Ozil had a much better game. Some real moments of class from Ozil and Cazorla when they find each other with passes. Caz and Coq need to tighten up on defence but that will come because they were immense together last season.

Still not convinced by Ramsey and Giroud. Both need to be dropped. A very selfish performance from Ramsey and he’s turning into a right Stevie Me type player. Wenger needs to take to one side and tell him on his game. 60/78 pass completion is pretty bad. If he gets the basics down he’ll get back on form. But really he should be on the bench. His presence on the right disrupted Bellerin’s game as well as getting in the way of Ozil.

Giroud – Wenger had a tip for Giroud. He said most of his goals are scored from first time one touch shots. He told him to shoot with his first touch more often. Sums up the type of player he is. He needs service and a clear path on goal because he can’t create any for himself. We’ll be seeing more of Giroud and doubt we’ll sign a striker so let’s hope he keeps banging them in.

On to Liverpool next. Tougher game and I hope we see a more balanced squad.

[mastermind84]

Ramsey created 4 chances yesterday for all his "selfishness."

Wenger needs to find a younger Arteta so he can get the best out of Ramsey.

[Power n Glory]

Ramsey created 4 chances yesterday for all his "selfishness."

Wenger needs to find a younger Arteta so he can get the best out of Ramsey.

It doesn’t matter how many chances he created if he’s neglecting the right wing and coming to far into the centre. It’s still selfish.

[Marc Overmars]

All seems to have gone quiet on the transfer front. I think our squad is #decent but it would be fairly disappointing if a goalkeeper was our only acquisition this summer. With the money available now you'd think we'd be doing everything to complete the transformation into title contenders.

[Syn]

It doesn’t matter how many chances he created if he’s neglecting the right wing and coming to far into the centre. It’s still selfish.

I would say it's not even about that. It's just that there are passages of play where we work the ball to very dangerous areas and if he gets his head up its pretty much a guaranteed goal. But whenever he gets a half chance he doesn't think about anything else. He's not the only one - only Ozil gets it right 10 times out of 10.

I rate him very highly and don't mind the all-action style because thats just the sort of player he is, and he does put in a defensive shift because of his insane work rate. But he needs to put Arsenal first here. Good to have ambition and all that but he should stop obsessing about trying to be a sports superstar.

[Power n Glory]

I would say it's not even about that. It's just that there are passages of play where we work the ball to very dangerous areas and if he gets his head up its pretty much a guaranteed goal. But whenever he gets a half chance he doesn't think about anything else. He's not the only one - only Ozil gets it right 10 times out of 10.

I rate him very highly and don't mind the all-action style because thats just the sort of player he is, and he does put in a defensive shift because of his insane work rate. But he needs to put Arsenal first here. Good to have ambition and all that but he should stop obsessing about trying to be a sports superstar.

That's the part of his game where he's going for glory but his movement into certain positions can be selfish at times as well. That's the part that annoys me most. When playing in a central position he's drifting up field and doing a Frank Lampard impression but without the goals. Watching Cazorla on the ball yesterday with Coquelin and I noticed a difference in how he build attacks. Cazorla doesn't leave it all up to the DM to find the forward pass and not look to build up play from the back before going charging forward. It's the same with Rosicky when he plays CM. Ramsey needs to learn a few things about movement, spotting the gaps and when it's ok to charge forward into the box. Just needs to add some discipline into his game. The same applies to when playing on the wing. You sometimes just have to sacrifice yourself for the team.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ramsey needs to watch tapes of Xavi rather than edited highlights of Stevie Me. I rate him highly too and a couple of seasons back there were moments where I rated him up with the best midfielders in Europe. No reason he can't get back there and hopefully he will.

Otherwise how are we going to get a decent fee from Barca?

[Munchies]

Ramsey needs to watch tapes of Xavi rather than edited highlights of Stevie Me. I rate him highly too and a couple of seasons back there were moments where I rated him up with the best midfielders in Europe. No reason he can't get back there and hopefully he will.

Otherwise how are we going to get a decent fee from Barca?

:gp:

Was reading a DM article and they said he had run the furthest out of any player, almost a mile more, but he needs to conserve himself and make better use of his position.

[Gooner23]

His energy levels and positivity can't be questioned, it's other areas he really needs to work on.

[Dein-machine]

Tbh - it was the game most expected. Therein lies the problem - we are expecting to pub a win against Palace & most on here seem quite happy about it. The mediocre standards that Wenger has been allowed to get away with for the past decade using all the excuses known to man has resulted in Gooners being happy with a pub win V Palace. Palace FFS - we could buy the whole club, players & training ground and all ( possibly even the Sainsburys on the end ) with the liquid cash we currently have available.
There is nothing this year to suggest Wenger has changed for the better. He can no longer blame lack of funds. He didn't continue the momentum of a good final 3 months & FA cup win with a couple of key signings that would have seriously improved the squad & he has done this so many times in the past & then regretted it.
Why do we buy players like Ozil, Santi & Sanchez. Is it to play the style of football Wenger wants, to go & do what we did to West Brom & Villa at the end of last season. Or do we want to get a goal lead & then defend.
Wenger has lost his philosophy. He wanted to play like Barca & to a degree with lesser players made a decent fist of it but when did Barca ever take the lead & then bring off Messi & Iniesta for 2 defenders to park the bus.
There is no killer instinct in this team, we have it to a degree when we play with pace upfront but as soon as Giroud plays, we know what to expect. He will score the occasional good goal as per Sunday but miss 3 easier ones & then go missing for the next 3 games.
A gooner on talksport on Sunday called Wenger a "Dream Seller" & he's spot on. Anyone in any doubt can only look at what you would have expected to do to Palace when we were at Highbury - nowadays most of us thought a point would be decent from Sundays game.
" We are moving to the Emirates to make us the dominant force in European football" - yeh, my arse.

[Dein-machine]

His energy levels and positivity can't be questioned, it's other areas he really needs to work on.

Absolutely - he can run up & down all day long but people on here should watch the full match on Sunday. Watch how many times he breaks a move down with a poor touch, control or pass. He was fantastic 2 years ago but I think that was more about his ability to score goals Lampardesque from midfield - his passing has always been a bit dodgy.
If we want someone to run up & down all day but then fuck up in the final 3rd - sign Mo Farah.

[Letters]

most on here seem quite happy about it.
Better than being a miserable sod no matter what we do :shrug:

[Dein-machine]

Better than being a miserable sod no matter what we do :shrug:

Look at my posts after the West Brom & Villa games. Games where we went for it because we are better than the opposition. I'm not always miserable - I just don't get why Wenger feels we have to be negative against weaker opposition. We went defensive against Reading in the cup FFS.

[Marc Overmars]

Ramsey's favourite player;


‘Steven Gerrard was always one of my favourite players to watch and to base my game on. I think his all-round game was unlike anybody else’s. He could tackle, he can win games on his own, he could score. He could do everything that a modern – day midfielder needs to do. So, yeah, he definitely set the bar for that.

Explains a lot tbh.

[fakeyank]

Tbh - it was the game most expected. Therein lies the problem - we are expecting to pub a win against Palace & most on here seem quite happy about it. The mediocre standards that Wenger has been allowed to get away with for the past decade using all the excuses known to man has resulted in Gooners being happy with a pub win V Palace. Palace FFS - we could buy the whole club, players & training ground and all ( possibly even the Sainsburys on the end ) with the liquid cash we currently have available.
There is nothing this year to suggest Wenger has changed for the better. He can no longer blame lack of funds. He didn't continue the momentum of a good final 3 months & FA cup win with a couple of key signings that would have seriously improved the squad & he has done this so many times in the past & then regretted it.
Why do we buy players like Ozil, Santi & Sanchez. Is it to play the style of football Wenger wants, to go & do what we did to West Brom & Villa at the end of last season. Or do we want to get a goal lead & then defend.
Wenger has lost his philosophy. He wanted to play like Barca & to a degree with lesser players made a decent fist of it but when did Barca ever take the lead & then bring off Messi & Iniesta for 2 defenders to park the bus.
There is no killer instinct in this team, we have it to a degree when we play with pace upfront but as soon as Giroud plays, we know what to expect. He will score the occasional good goal as per Sunday but miss 3 easier ones & then go missing for the next 3 games.
A gooner on talksport on Sunday called Wenger a "Dream Seller" & he's spot on. Anyone in any doubt can only look at what you would have expected to do to Palace when we were at Highbury - nowadays most of us thought a point would be decent from Sundays game.
" We are moving to the Emirates to make us the dominant force in European football" - yeh, my arse.

:gp:

[Kano]

Tbh - it was the game most expected. Therein lies the problem - we are expecting to pub a win against Palace & most on here seem quite happy about it. The mediocre standards that Wenger has been allowed to get away with for the past decade using all the excuses known to man has resulted in Gooners being happy with a pub win V Palace. Palace FFS - we could buy the whole club, players & training ground and all ( possibly even the Sainsburys on the end ) with the liquid cash we currently have available.
There is nothing this year to suggest Wenger has changed for the better. He can no longer blame lack of funds. He didn't continue the momentum of a good final 3 months & FA cup win with a couple of key signings that would have seriously improved the squad & he has done this so many times in the past & then regretted it.
Why do we buy players like Ozil, Santi & Sanchez. Is it to play the style of football Wenger wants, to go & do what we did to West Brom & Villa at the end of last season. Or do we want to get a goal lead & then defend.
Wenger has lost his philosophy. He wanted to play like Barca & to a degree with lesser players made a decent fist of it but when did Barca ever take the lead & then bring off Messi & Iniesta for 2 defenders to park the bus.
There is no killer instinct in this team, we have it to a degree when we play with pace upfront but as soon as Giroud plays, we know what to expect. He will score the occasional good goal as per Sunday but miss 3 easier ones & then go missing for the next 3 games.
A gooner on talksport on Sunday called Wenger a "Dream Seller" & he's spot on. Anyone in any doubt can only look at what you would have expected to do to Palace when we were at Highbury - nowadays most of us thought a point would be decent from Sundays game.
" We are moving to the Emirates to make us the dominant force in European football" - yeh, my arse.
You are making up most of our expectations to suit your argument. There are no shortage of fans disgruntled with Wenger, myself included, but nearly all fans demanded a win, by any means necessary. I'm not sure I read many, if any, fans saying they would be happy with a point away at Palace. I'd also be surprised that fans were happy with how we played too, as we flattered to deceive upfront and made hard work of what should've been an easier three points. So of course fans are happy, because we won a football game. It doesn't change a lot of our gripes or dissatisfaction with how we played, issues with previous seasons or concerns about the season ahead. Yesterday we dominated most of the game but were far too wasteful in front of goal and unbalanced down the right hand side which mean we wasted too much possession again. But believe it or not, you are still allowed to enjoy taking three points home.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Look at my posts after the West Brom & Villa games. Games where we went for it because we are better than the opposition. I'm not always miserable - I just don't get why Wenger feels we have to be negative against weaker opposition. We went defensive against Reading in the cup FFS.

I don't know I think Crystal Palace are a decent side, certainly not relegation fodder anymore, i can actually sometimes understand us becoming defensive when we are so unconvincing when not in possession. Unquestionably Coquelin should have been sent off many times over, because there just isn't the hunger to win the ball back when in attack mode.

[Dein-machine]

You are making up most of our expectations to suit your argument. There are no shortage of fans disgruntled with Wenger, myself included, but nearly all fans demanded a win, by any means necessary. I'm not sure I read many, if any, fans saying they would be happy with a point away at Palace. I'd also be surprised that fans were happy with how we played too, as we flattered to deceive upfront and made hard work of what should've been an easier three points. So of course fans are happy, because we won a football game. It doesn't change a lot of our gripes or dissatisfaction with how we played, issues with previous seasons or concerns about the season ahead. Yesterday we dominated most of the game but were far too wasteful in front of goal and unbalanced down the right hand side which mean we wasted too much possession again. But believe it or not, you are still allowed to enjoy taking three points home.

We all enjoy taking 3 points, even in the Invincible's era we pubbed a few games but we knew that those games were part & parcel of a premier league season & that for the most we would be tearing teams a new one. How many times did we pub a result last year. Compare that to the games against weaker opposition where we went out & murdered them. We are now becoming a team incapable of killing off teams which if not addressed will cost points, resulting in us not competing for the title, again. Wenger even mentioned not being clinical enough - YES Arsene we know, you haven't bought a clinical striker for 10 years - what do you expect.
To win the league we need to see a changed Arsenal. One that goes out to murder the weaker opposition & be more tactically aware against better opposition. Sunday's game was no different to our win at Selhurst Park last year - hanging on for a point like a bottom 3 team would expect to. There is no difference & can be no difference under Wenger. You may be happy with beating Palace, as I'm sure you were last year, culminating in us NOT competing again but that isn't what I'm expecting from this team - not with the resources we have & the promises that were made.

[Dein-machine]

I don't know I think Crystal Palace are a decent side, certainly not relegation fodder anymore, i can actually sometimes understand us becoming defensive when we are so unconvincing when not in possession. Unquestionably Coquelin should have been sent off many times over, because there just isn't the hunger to win the ball back when in attack mode.

Also Herbie, Palace have invested in the summer. They saw weaknesses that needed addressing & they did it. They don't have a manager who is trying to prove everyone else is wrong when all he does is make himself look constantly stupid.
If we allow sides below us to invest in better players whilst not doing the same - they will catch up pretty quickly. The gap between us & Palace is the smallest its ever been under the Wenger reign as is the gap between us & West Ham, Stoke etc.

[Kano]

We all enjoy taking 3 points, even in the Invincible's era we pubbed a few games but we knew that those games were part & parcel of a premier league season & that for the most we would be tearing teams a new one. How many times did we pub a result last year. Compare that to the games against weaker opposition where we went out & murdered them. We are now becoming a team incapable of killing off teams which if not addressed will cost points, resulting in us not competing for the title, again. Wenger even mentioned not being clinical enough - YES Arsene we know, you haven't bought a clinical striker for 10 years - what do you expect.
To win the league we need to see a changed Arsenal. One that goes out to murder the weaker opposition & be more tactically aware against better opposition. Sunday's game was no different to our win at Selhurst Park last year - hanging on for a point like a bottom 3 team would expect to. There is no difference & can be no difference under Wenger. You may be happy with beating Palace, as I'm sure you were last year, culminating in us NOT competing again but that isn't what I'm expecting from this team - not with the resources we have & the promises that were made.

We know all of that and you won't find many of us disagreeing.

But what you made up was that most fans would be happy with a point and we're happy with the performance. Wrong on both counts. So yes, I can accept three points after we lost our first game. Does that mean I'm happy with how we played and excited about us turning around the season? Not particularly. Most people agree with that too. And don't forget, take a look around the league as a whole. Most teams are pubbing it nowadays, the standard has been awful across all teams in the PL when you take into account the supposed star players on parade. So again, does that mean I'm happy about us doing it? No. But I think you are living in dream land of you expect any team to be doing that any time soon. The PL has become the Pub League in many respects, and we're just as guilty as anyone of doing it. We all expect better. Doesn't mean we're going to get it.

[mastermind84]

It doesn’t matter how many chances he created if he’s neglecting the right wing and coming to far into the centre. It’s still selfish.

judging from the post match comments, its what Arsene asked him to do.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20150817/ramsey-i-got-into-dangerous-positions


“It was the manager’s decision and he tweaked things,” he told Arsenal Player.

“He told me to try and get in between the lines, not stay outside, to come inside and I thought I did that by getting into some dangerous positions. Some of the combination play was really good and on another day we could’ve scored more.

“We played really well, got into some dangerous positions in between the lines and on another day we could have scored a few more. Even though we conceded we never questioned our ability to go on and score again.

“I had a couple of chances and maybe on another day they would’ve gone in. I’m just happy for the team, for Olivier to get his goal and to get the win.”
not selfish

[mastermind84]

Ramsey needs to watch tapes of Xavi rather than edited highlights of Stevie Me. I rate him highly too and a couple of seasons back there were moments where I rated him up with the best midfielders in Europe. No reason he can't get back there and hopefully he will.

Otherwise how are we going to get a decent fee from Barca?

why should he watch tapes of Xavi when the two are nothing alike?

[Kano]

It's even more damning that the manager made that decision. No-one expects Ramsey to play like an out and out winter, because he isn't one, but the periods we looked more dangerous (the start of both halves) he was out wide helping to stretch the Palace defence. Ljungberg was never a winger but he made the most of playing out wide because of his runs and understanding of space, something that would make Ramsey a far more effective player if he was taught how to do that. Telling him to drift inside and clog up play just slows us down as we tinker around and come up against a wall of defenders. If he wants Ramsey coming in then he has to be taught how to be more disciplined, sacrifice more for the team and going on his past couple of seasons, that isn't happening.

[Dein-machine]

We know all of that and you won't find many of us disagreeing.

But what you made up was that most fans would be happy with a point and we're happy with the performance. Wrong on both counts. So yes, I can accept three points after we lost our first game. Does that mean I'm happy with how we played and excited about us turning around the season? Not particularly. Most people agree with that too. And don't forget, take a look around the league as a whole. Most teams are pubbing it nowadays, the standard has been awful across all teams in the PL when you take into account the supposed star players on parade. So again, does that mean I'm happy about us doing it? No. But I think you are living in dream land of you expect any team to be doing that any time soon. The PL has
become the Pub League in many respects, and we're just as guilty as anyone of doing it. We all expect better. Doesn't mean we're going to get it.

Read the pre match predictions - 50/50 whether we would win it & therefore most on here happier than expected - against Palace.
We do expect better because Wenger has produced nothing for a decade & yet we have £200 mill sat in the bank from a stadium move/endorsements that we were promised would make us a major Euopean force.
Unlike other teams who would also like to better - we have the money & resources to do so

[Kano]

Read the pre match predictions - 50/50 whether we would win it & therefore most on here happier than expected - against Palace.
We do expect better because Wenger has produced nothing for a decade & yet we have £200 mill sat in the bank from a stadium move/endorsements that we were promised would make us a major Euopean force.
Unlike other teams who would also like to better - we have the money & resources to do so
Of course doubtful fans were happier after losing our first game - because we won. You're not really making a point above at all. You said fans would've been happy with a point and we're happy with the performance. That's just plain wrong. Why are you still preaching to me about Wenger and the problems at the club when I've said I agree? My point is you made up stuff needlessly and that the rest of the league is as dull and uninspiring as we are. Really, banging on about our finances, Wenger and co isn't telling me anything new or interesting.

[Dein-machine]

Of course doubtful fans were happier after losing our first game - because we won. You're not really making a point above at all. You said fans would've been happy with a point and we're happy with the performance. That's just plain wrong. Why are you still preaching to me about Wenger and the problems at the club when I've said I agree? My point is you made up stuff needlessly and that the rest of the league is as dull and uninspiring as we are. Really, banging on about our finances, Wenger and co isn't telling me anything new or interesting.

I'm not wrong - read the posts.
Your quote " We all expect better. Doesn't mean we're going to get it". Are you a shareholder.
When we're dominating games but finishing like a non- league team - don't you think a proven goalscorer would make us better. We expect it, we were promised it & we can have it - we choose not to & some on here seem ok with that.

[GP]

Who seems okay with it?

Name one person on here who doesn't think that things can be better.

[Kano]

I'm not wrong - read the posts.
Your quote " We all expect better. Doesn't mean we're going to get it". Are you a shareholder.
When we're dominating games but finishing like a non- league team - don't you think a proven goalscorer would make us better. We expect it, we were promised it & we can have it - we choose not to & some on here seem ok with that.
Yes I'm a shareholder. Damnit you uncovered my ruse, there's no beating you eh? I've been tricking them all for years on that one. And you uncover me in a matter of a few posts.

Have you not actually read anything I've written, you know the points about agreeing about the team and managerial problems? You're desperate to preach to someone about something, but honestly, save it for Letters or someone who takes an opposing stance on those subjects. I'm surprised you haven't bought up Wenger's salary yet to be honest. Maybe you need to find a wider audience, I'm not sure. Either way, I'm not your target crowd and your point about fans being happy about a point was nonsense as was the one about most people being happy with our overall performance. Pay attention to the league and you'll realise even if we change manager and by in more star players the level of play would still be as droll as everyone else in the league. And no that doesn't mean that I am advocating keeping Weng..ah just forget it, I get the feeling it's just wasted on you.

[Power n Glory]

judging from the post match comments, its what Arsene asked him to do.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20150817/ramsey-i-got-into-dangerous-positions


not selfish

Regardless of instructions he needs to show more positional intelligence. Even when playing in the centre he's unbalanced the team which is why he's lost his place to Cazorla.

Defend him all you want but he won't last long on the first team sheet if he keeps playing like this. He needs to step it up. Wenger will always give his players freedom but they also need to be intelligent enough to know what positions to take on the pitch. He may get better on the right with more games but I can't see him replacing Cazorla unless he's being rested or out injured.

[Power n Glory]

I'm not wrong - read the posts.
Your quote " We all expect better. Doesn't mean we're going to get it". Are you a shareholder.
When we're dominating games but finishing like a non- league team - don't you think a proven goalscorer would make us better. We expect it, we were promised it & we can have it - we choose not to & some on here seem ok with that.



But whose ok with it besides Letters? It's also worth remembering the league has gotten a lot better. Managers with international experience are managing some of the lower league clubs. It's hard to compare what we were doing during the Invincible days because the lower league sides were really poor.

[Niall_Quinn]

why should he watch tapes of Xavi when the two are nothing alike?

Because watching intelligent team players can't hurt him, can it?

[Letters]

Look at my posts after the West Brom & Villa games. Games where we went for it because we are better than the opposition. I'm not always miserable - I just don't get why Wenger feels we have to be negative against weaker opposition. We went defensive against Reading in the cup FFS.

I didn't see the game (I have a good excuse on this occasion, I was on an airplane!) but from what I've heard/seen (surprisingly they were showing the highlights in my hotel last night, so I've seen some bits) we weren't negative in this game. I've seen several people say on here how we should have been out of sight way before they equalised.
It sounds like we did go more defensive towards the end when it was still 2-1 but:
a) That's actually something we've become quite good at and
b) How often have we been too gung no towards the end of games and conceded silly goals which has seen us lose points?

It's nice to spank sides but sometimes towards the end of games you have to be more pragmatic, if it's winning us 3 points then there's no complaints from me. Anyone else grinds out results like that and it's #stuffofchampions.

[mastermind84]

Regardless of instructions he needs to show more positional intelligence.
what are you talking about? The manager told him to cut inside and we were dangerous when he did that.


Even when playing in the centre he's unbalanced the team which is why he's lost his place to Cazorla.
Cazorla's poor defense was why Coquelin was so rash in his challenges.

Ramsey and Coquelin do not work together because Coquelin cannot pass and Ramsey is not control the tempo type.


Defend him all you want but he won't last long on the first team sheet if he keeps playing like this. He needs to step it up. Wenger will always give his players freedom but they also need to be intelligent enough to know what positions to take on the pitch. He may get better on the right with more games but I can't see him replacing Cazorla unless he's being rested or out injured.
Yea, sorry created 4 chances and is prolly the 2nd or 3rd name on the teamsheet. He wont be dropped.


It's even more damning that the manager made that decision. No-one expects Ramsey to play like an out and out winter, because he isn't one, but the periods we looked more dangerous (the start of both halves) he was out wide helping to stretch the Palace defence. Ljungberg was never a winger but he made the most of playing out wide because of his runs and understanding of space, something that would make Ramsey a far more effective player if he was taught how to do that. Telling him to drift inside and clog up play just slows us down as we tinker around and come up against a wall of defenders. If he wants Ramsey coming in then he has to be taught how to be more disciplined, sacrifice more for the team and going on his past couple of seasons, that isn't happening.
he was at his best when he was cutting inside.




The truth is, we want Ramsey centrally but because he cannot set the tempo and Coquelin cannot pass, we have to wedge him into the side because he is a special player in this side. Hopefully we can get a tempo setter beside Ramsey to get the best out of he and Ozil, while having more speed. This is actually the lineup we played a lot at the end of the season. We thrashed Liverpool with this lineup in April with Ramsey being a catalyst.

[mastermind84]

Because watching intelligent team players can't hurt him, can it?

True, but they are not similar players and even have similar strengths and weaknesses.

I guess he could utilize learn spacing from Xavi, but Ramsey is already damn good at that. They also do not use space the same way as Ramsey was looking to get forward while Xavi is looking to receive the ball.

I am not saying Ramsey should watch videos on Gerrard, but you want a similar midielder to model himself after. A guy like Yaya Toure is closer to what Ramsey does than Xavi.

[Kano]

I'd disagree with that Mastermind. When Ramsey drifts inside he gets caught up in this idea that he can match Ozil and Cazorla technically, hence the flicks and tricks that see us go nowhere. He's good on the ball but he's no wizard. His main asset is his work ethic and while that helps going back to help Hector, it is not utilised effectively enough for his attacking game. In the centre he drifts into the same space as Ozil and disrupts his game and generally our play becomes snail paced. Don't get me wrong, I like Ramsey and think he has huge potential but I think there are problems in his game that are preventing him from realising that and detrimental to the type of game Wenger is insistent on playing.

[Globalgunner]

You guys are asking for a Wasp to produce honey, wrong insect, for Honey you need a Bee. Wenger does not improve young players, not anymore at least. Look at Gibbs still as basic a player as he first was in 2006, same with Jack. For Wenger to improve players he will need to improve his backroom staff at the minimum. Are we not using the same coaches as we had in 1996?. I think only the goalkeeping coach has changed in that time. Ferguson knew what he was good at, he always changed his staff as the challenges morphed. I doubt he was the one telling the strikers how to approach the ball.

[Power n Glory]

As if Ozil and Cazorla need him in the middle. Can you imagine the damage Ozil could do with with Theo or Ox to his right making runs as well as Sanchez on the left?

[mastermind84]

I'd disagree with that Mastermind. When Ramsey drifts inside he gets caught up in this idea that he can match Ozil and Cazorla technically, hence the flicks and tricks that see us go nowhere. He's good on the ball but he's no wizard. His main asset is his work ethic and while that helps going back to help Hector, it is not utilised effectively enough for his attacking game. In the centre he drifts into the same space as Ozil and disrupts his game and generally our play becomes snail paced. Don't get me wrong, I like Ramsey and think he has huge potential but I think there are problems in his game that are preventing him from realising that and detrimental to the type of game Wenger is insistent on playing.
Ramsey became a goal scoring machine with Ozil on the pitch and Ozil plays his best football with Ramsey.

Ramsey doesn't play like Ozil at all and doesn't clash with him in anyway. That's Wilshere.

I don't know how you can say that after this last match where Ozil was MOTM?


As if Ozil and Cazorla need him in the middle. Can you imagine the damage Ozil could do with with Theo or Ox to his right making runs as well as Sanchez on the left?

That could happen if we Arsene can find an Arteta from 2011 clone to partner with Ramsey.

Even with Ramsey out wide right, Ozil has played his best football for Arsenal since that great start he had. It's not a coincidence Ramsey has been on the pitch for those moments.

[Letters]

for Honey you need a Bee.
Alright, David Attenborough.

[Power n Glory]

Ramsey became a goal scoring machine with Ozil on the pitch and Ozil plays his best football with Ramsey.

Ramsey doesn't play like Ozil at all and doesn't clash with him in anyway. That's Wilshere.

I don't know how you can say that after this last match where Ozil was MOTM?



That could happen if we Arsene can find an Arteta from 2011 clone to partner with Ramsey.

Even with Ramsey out wide right, Ozil has played his best football for Arsenal since that great start he had. It's not a coincidence Ramsey has been on the pitch for those moments.

Do you think Ramsey played well in that game and would you be up for Ox or Walcott holding a bench just so Ramsey can play wide right? Does he bring more to the table than this two players?

Also, we don't need or want an Arteta clone just to help Ramsey. Rambo needs to get back to what he was doing before and work from a deeper position like how Santi is doing. Arteta was never good at making a forward pass to another midfielder so I'm not sure why you think he's vital to Ramsey's game.

[mastermind84]

Do you think Ramsey played well in that game and would you be up for Ox or Walcott holding a bench just so Ramsey can play wide right? Does he bring more to the table than this two players?
yes, he actually does defend the flank better than those two and the attack looked much better against Crystal Palace than it did the West Ham match. And for some reason he gets the best out of Ozil. Ramsey is actually a smarter player than Ox and Theo. He makes better runs. He may not have pace, but staying between the lines and finding the right angles towards the goal has always been his strength. Theo is a better finisher, but Ramsey is way better than Ox at finishing. And Ramsey defends the flank better. Ramsey made 4 tackles in the last match. Chamberlain only made 1 against West Ham. Ramsey also had more clearances and no mistake of his lead to a goal unlike Ox. You are acting like Bolasie dominated the match. He did fuck all and got subbed at halftime.

My only critique of Ramsey was that gave the ball away too much in the final 3rd, but it didnt affect his defending.

I actually prefer Ramsey centrally but with Coquelin's limitations, it can't happen. Its why we need to upgrade on Coquelin, but that player is hard to find.


Also, we don't need or want an Arteta clone just to help Ramsey. Rambo needs to get back to what he was doing before and work from a deeper position like how Santi is doing. Arteta was never good at making a forward pass to another midfielder so I'm not sure why you think he's vital to Ramsey's game.
The clone isnt just to help Ramsey, its to help our attack. Its to help control matches from the midfield better, which we cant do against good teams (like that away match at Dortmund in 2013).

Rambo "getting back to what he was doing before" was largely due to Arteta controlling the tempo of the matches and getting the ball to him. That is something Coquelin has shown he cannot do. And while Santi gets the ball forward, he is a defensive liability. And more than all of this, it helps keep Ozil in the final 3rd where he can influence things, instead of dropping deeper back.

If Arsene can find a player who does the Arteta job (but obviously better), id sacrifice Santi and Coquelin as it will make the first team stronger because that player would be doing both their jobs.

[Dein-machine]

Yes I'm a shareholder. Damnit you uncovered my ruse, there's no beating you eh? I've been tricking them all for years on that one. And you uncover me in a matter of a few posts.

Have you not actually read anything I've written, you know the points about agreeing about the team and managerial problems? You're desperate to preach to someone about something, but honestly, save it for Letters or someone who takes an opposing stance on those subjects. I'm surprised you haven't bought up Wenger's salary yet to be honest. Maybe you need to find a wider audience, I'm not sure. Either way, I'm not your target crowd and your point about fans being happy about a point was nonsense as was the one about most people being happy with our overall performance. Pay attention to the league and you'll realise even if we change manager and by in more star players the level of play would still be as droll as everyone else in the league. And no that doesn't mean that I am advocating keeping Weng..ah just forget it, I get the feeling it's just wasted on you.

Have you morphed into Letter's. Waffling round in circles without answering the quotes. Read the pre-match predictions & then the post match thread. People not expecting to beat Palace & then those seemingly pleased that we pubbed a win, AGAIN, by parking the bus against weaker opposition. That's the point I don't get. If we're pleased with wins like that we're going nowhere. You seem to be disagreeing with me but you only have to read the 2 threads.
Anyway, please answer the point why things won't necessarily get better. Didn't Sanchez make us better, why wouldn't a world class DM & goalscorer make us better.

[Dein-machine]

Who seems okay with it?

Name one person on here who doesn't think that things can be better.

you

[Power n Glory]

yes, he actually does defend the flank better than those two and the attack looked much better against Crystal Palace than it did the West Ham match. And for some reason he gets the best out of Ozil. Ramsey is actually a smarter player than Ox and Theo. He makes better runs. He may not have pace, but staying between the lines and finding the right angles towards the goal has always been his strength. Theo is a better finisher, but Ramsey is way better than Ox at finishing. And Ramsey defends the flank better. Ramsey made 4 tackles in the last match. Chamberlain only made 1 against West Ham. Ramsey also had more clearances and no mistake of his lead to a goal unlike Ox. You are acting like Bolasie dominated the match. He did fuck all and got subbed at halftime.

My only critique of Ramsey was that gave the ball away too much in the final 3rd, but it didnt affect his defending.

I actually prefer Ramsey centrally but with Coquelin's limitations, it can't happen. Its why we need to upgrade on Coquelin, but that player is hard to find.


The clone isnt just to help Ramsey, its to help our attack. Its to help control matches from the midfield better, which we cant do against good teams (like that away match at Dortmund in 2013).

Rambo "getting back to what he was doing before" was largely due to Arteta controlling the tempo of the matches and getting the ball to him. That is something Coquelin has shown he cannot do. And while Santi gets the ball forward, he is a defensive liability. And more than all of this, it helps keep Ozil in the final 3rd where he can influence things, instead of dropping deeper back.

If Arsene can find a player who does the Arteta job (but obviously better), id sacrifice Santi and Coquelin as it will make the first team stronger because that player would be doing both their jobs.

We lost to Dortmund 2-1 when Ramsey and Arteta played together in the middle against Dortmund. Ramsey was banging in goals early in the season when he had Flamini playing next to him week in week out. Arteta's style of play had no influence on Ramsey's form because they weren't playing together. They've had games where they've won but also games where we've lost or dominated like that Dortmund game and same goes for that 1-1 draw vs Everton. Against Man Utd last season we lost 2-1 with that paring.

I don't know why you think it's a good partnership or why you think Ozil needs Ramsey to play well. When both Arteta and Ramsey were out of the team last season we started playing well and bossing games.

Did you forget how Coquelin bossed the game against Man City where we beat them 2-0 and looked a lot better in the midfield after that? In fact, it's the best our midfield has looked as unit in a long time.

[Power n Glory]

In fact, we also lost to Dortmund last year with Ramsey and Arteta playing together....plus that woeful 3-3 draw against Anderlecht!

I don't know what your seeing to be honest.

[Dein-machine]

Ramsey playing in the current wide right role is simply another Wenger "square pegs into round holes". 2 years ago Wenger took great delight in proving " He's always right" with Rambo becoming a consistent top class performer. The problem is, he didn't do it from wide right & last year he played like a pub player. Santi 2 years ago was pretty poor but was in my opinion ( along with Sanchez & Kos ) our best player last year. Then we have the "Wonder of Oz" - to good to leave out even though he can be so frustrating at times. If we had a tactically astute manager, he would realise that in most games at the Emirates when were playing the cannon fodder we don't need Coq. Santi or Rambo can drop back to direct things because when we play teams with 1 up front & maybe 2 midfielders allowed to break on the counter, our 4 defenders should be drilled enough to deal with that. However, Le Prof went on a great winning streak once his captain got injured & he realised that a kid he loaned out that year (because he wasn't good enough for a 1st team squad) was actually a better DM than our Captian. Which isn't hard because our poor captain was never a DM in the first place.
Its quite simple - if we want to play 4-5-1, then the 3 in the middle of the 5 have to be a choice between Coq,Arteta,Ozil,Santi,Jack or Rambo. But choose these 3 in line with the opposition. If we've got Watford at home - attack the fuckers in numbers. If we're away to Man City play Coq & Santi in a 4-2-3-1 formation but don't play any of these out of position just because their your favourites. Do not put Ox in their because he's not composed enough & will lose the ball in dangerous area's ie Barkley goal in pre-season & 2nd West Ham goal.
The 2 wide places - choose from Sanches, Ox, Theo & Welbeck.
Up top - Giroud, Welbeck or Theo.
This will mean Wenger not being able to continue to give match time to his favourites, like Ramsey at the moment, when they don't deserve it & will give them all competition for places.

[Niall_Quinn]

True, but they are not similar players and even have similar strengths and weaknesses.

I guess he could utilize learn spacing from Xavi, but Ramsey is already damn good at that. They also do not use space the same way as Ramsey was looking to get forward while Xavi is looking to receive the ball.

I am not saying Ramsey should watch videos on Gerrard, but you want a similar midielder to model himself after. A guy like Yaya Toure is closer to what Ramsey does than Xavi.

For me Ramsey is not composed enough at the moment. When Xavi received the ball you know he'd do the right thing with it. Hold it, move it quickly, whatever. His decision making was spot on, even under pressure, and he knew when to force things and when to retain possession. Ramsey forces things much too much. He should have more balance in his game. Jack's got the same problem. Too eager when a little bit of composure and thought would give bigger rewards and more frequently.

Anyway I suppose he doesn't need to watch Xavi either, he can just glance over at Ozil who has that intelligence and pitch craft. If Ramsey can add this to his game then he really can become a midfielder who can dictate the play. He hinted at it at Webley against the chavs where, after a shitty start, he put in a superb performance. And of course he had a great season 2 years ago until injury intervened at the critical moment. If he can recapture that form he becomes indispensable, but right now I rate him as hot/ cold mostly for the reasons give. Composure, intelligence.

---

Yaya Toure is a complete cock.

[Kano]

Have you morphed into Letter's. Waffling round in circles without answering the quotes. Read the pre-match predictions & then the post match thread. People not expecting to beat Palace & then those seemingly pleased that we pubbed a win, AGAIN, by parking the bus against weaker opposition. That's the point I don't get. If we're pleased with wins like that we're going nowhere. You seem to be disagreeing with me but you only have to read the 2 threads.
Anyway, please answer the point why things won't necessarily get better. Didn't Sanchez make us better, why wouldn't a world class DM & goalscorer make us better.
That's the second time you've unmasked me. First it was a shareholder and now Letters. There's just no hiding from you at all is there?

What you can't seem to separate are people being pleased their football team took three points which was a pre-requisite ahead of the game and then satisfaction with the actual performance. Everyone - well, perhaps not yourself on that lonely island of rage - falls into the former camp and very few can be found in the latter.

Yet again you ask a question that I have repeatedly told you I agree with. Sure, buying a striker and DM will improve us but it will just make us better at pubbing results. Have you seen many games across the league over the past few seasons? The level of play is mind-numbingly dull in most games, so you may fantasise that we'll buy-in better players and turn into a free-flowing Ajax masterclass but that is a sad delusion. It won't happen. The Best League In The World is over-flowing with uninspiring, negative dirge and has been for a number of seasons, so it's time for you to snap out of that dream world and join us all back in reality. Whenever you're ready.

[Letters]

I'm Letters and so is my wife.

[LDG]

I'm Letters and so is my wife.

I knew there had to be a reason you eventually pulled.

[mastermind84]

We lost to Dortmund 2-1 when Ramsey and Arteta played together in the middle against Dortmund. Ramsey was banging in goals early in the season when he had Flamini playing next to him week in week out. Arteta's style of play had no influence on Ramsey's form because they weren't playing together.
Arteta in 2013/14 season and the Arteta after that season are 2 completely different players. He was finished physically after the 2013-14 season, and he wore down during that season.

With Flamini, Ramsey had 2 goals. With Arteta (and Ozil), he exploded. Arteta allowed Ramsey to play further up because he knew he would get the ball. With Coquelin, he wasnt.

Also, Flamini is technically a much better player than Coquelin.

And that 1-2 match we lost to Dortmund, Arsenal dominated that match but had a back breaking counter attack goal very late in the match.

At Dortmund, Arsenal dominated and won it 0-1.

Last year, Arteta was done.


They've had games where they've won but also games where we've lost or dominated like that Dortmund game and same goes for that 1-1 draw vs Everton. Against Man Utd last season we lost 2-1 with that paring.

I don't know why you think it's a good partnership or why you think Ozil needs Ramsey to play well. When both Arteta and Ramsey were out of the team last season we started playing well and bossing games.
Arteta was completely finished last season. The key is finding someone younger, and better.

And when Arteta and Ramsey were both out, Ozil was also out for the most part. And what I said is that the team plays at its best with Ramsey on the pitch, I never said Ozil hasnt played well without Ramsey. Get it right.


Did you forget how Coquelin bossed the game against Man City where we beat them 2-0 and looked a lot better in the midfield after that? In fact, it's the best our midfield has looked as unit in a long time.
And the reality is we stood off City and forced them to break us down. We didnt impose our will on that match in the attacking end. It was the defensive solidarity and taking advantage of our chances is what won that match for us.

Coquelin was dynamic, but if we went at City and tried to impose our will on them, that would not have happened.

[mastermind84]

For me Ramsey is not composed enough at the moment. When Xavi received the ball you know he'd do the right thing with it. Hold it, move it quickly, whatever. His decision making was spot on, even under pressure, and he knew when to force things and when to retain possession. Ramsey forces things much too much. He should have more balance in his game. Jack's got the same problem. Too eager when a little bit of composure and thought would give bigger rewards and more frequently.

Anyway I suppose he doesn't need to watch Xavi either, he can just glance over at Ozil who has that intelligence and pitch craft. If Ramsey can add this to his game then he really can become a midfielder who can dictate the play. He hinted at it at Webley against the chavs where, after a shitty start, he put in a superb performance. And of course he had a great season 2 years ago until injury intervened at the critical moment. If he can recapture that form he becomes indispensable, but right now I rate him as hot/ cold mostly for the reasons give. Composure, intelligence.

---

Yaya Toure is a complete cock.
Two years ago, Ramsey wasn't dictating a match's tempo. That was Arteta.

He has shown that ability though (we beat United 1-0 on his return back from the leg break and subsequent loans where he scored the goal) but I think he is at his best making marauding runs. There is a lot of intelligence in how he does it and when he picks his spots. Wilshere is nowhere near that level of thinking. It's why Ramsey/Ozil work so well together while Wilshere/Ozil doesn't.

_____________
Say what you want, but Yaya is still the best central midfielder in the premiership by a distance.

[Letters]

I knew there had to be a reason you eventually pulled.

Clones :bow:

[Dein-machine]

That's the second time you've unmasked me. First it was a shareholder and now Letters. There's just no hiding from you at all is there?

What you can't seem to separate are people being pleased their football team took three points which was a pre-requisite ahead of the game and then satisfaction with the actual performance. Everyone - well, perhaps not yourself on that lonely island of rage - falls into the former camp and very few can be found in the latter.

Yet again you ask a question that I have repeatedly told you I agree with. Sure, buying a striker and DM will improve us but it will just make us better at pubbing results. Have you seen many games across the league over the past few seasons? The level of play is mind-numbingly dull in most games, so you may fantasise that we'll buy-in better players and turn into a free-flowing Ajax masterclass but that is a sad delusion. It won't happen. The Best League In The World is over-flowing with uninspiring, negative dirge and has been for a number of seasons, so it's time for you to snap out of that dream world and join us all back in reality. Whenever you're ready.

Its you that live in your own world. The "mind-numbingly dull" league that you seem to see has produced some great games over the past few years with teams beating scoring records & records set with number of goals on match-day etc. If you mean its harder to beat the pub teams these days, I would agree with you but thats because we haven't improved as much as them.
My question to you is not something we agree on. Your post stated that we all want to get better, doesn't mean it will happen. I don't agree with you on this, especially if you have the resources we have. If we buy better we will play better. A better version of Coq, for example Schneiderlein, will not only win the ball in those areas but set up attacking plays with quality passing - Coq can't pass more than 10 yards. Ofcourse we will still lose games & maybe sneak a few 1 goal wins, even Barca did this during the years they were unbelievably good, but a better striker may have put West Ham 2 goals down the other week & the same against Palace. Playing better doesn't just mean passing around like Barca, it means defending better, being more clinical infront of goal etc. Would a better defender than Merts, one that commands his box from set pieces & rushes out to block 25 yard shots have stopped the 2 West Ham goals. Would a better striker than Giroud be more clinical infornt of goal & make better runs to score more goals. I think the answer is yes - you don't. We have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Power n Glory]

Arteta in 2013/14 season and the Arteta after that season are 2 completely different players. He was finished physically after the 2013-14 season, and he wore down during that season.

With Flamini, Ramsey had 2 goals. With Arteta (and Ozil), he exploded. Arteta allowed Ramsey to play further up because he knew he would get the ball. With Coquelin, he wasnt.

Also, Flamini is technically a much better player than Coquelin.

And that 1-2 match we lost to Dortmund, Arsenal dominated that match but had a back breaking counter attack goal very late in the match.

At Dortmund, Arsenal dominated and won it 0-1.

Last year, Arteta was done.


Arteta was completely finished last season. The key is finding someone younger, and better.

And when Arteta and Ramsey were both out, Ozil was also out for the most part. And what I said is that the team plays at its best with Ramsey on the pitch, I never said Ozil hasnt played well without Ramsey. Get it right.


And the reality is we stood off City and forced them to break us down. We didnt impose our will on that match in the attacking end. It was the defensive solidarity and taking advantage of our chances is what won that match for us.

Coquelin was dynamic, but if we went at City and tried to impose our will on them, that would not have happened.

You really need to rethink this one Mastermind. This Arteta/Ramsey link is totally false. Ramsey’s game isn’t dependent on Arteta. In 2013/14 season Ramsey was off to a bang and scored half of his goals (8) whilst Arteta wasn’t even playing. This is early in the season mind you. He had a positive pre-season and had a heck of QL Qualification scoring 3 goals across the two legs and Arteta wasn’t even playing. I think he was playing alongside Wilshere.

From August to October he was paired with Flamini and scored the other 5 (not the 2 goals as you say). Back to back games. 5 goals in 4 games. He came out the blocks flying that season and you’re off your rocker if you think Flamini is technically better than Coquelin. Ramsey didn’t explode when Arteta won his spot back. I don’t know where you’re getting that from and total lie. He was in beast mode from the start of the season.

Also, it’s worth remembering he was injured from Boxing day and only played the remaining 4 games in the league and FA Cup final. Ramsey and Arteta played more games together in the previous 2012/13 season and he only managed 2 goals all season. Arteta wasn’t physically finished that season and played just as many games as he did the following season so what the heck happened? As for the Ramsey and Coquelin combo, we really haven’t seen them get a run of games together. It’s mainly been Coquelin and Santi.


Coquelin was dynamic, but if we went at City and tried to impose our will on them, that would not have happened.

Do you really think we’d have been able to impose our game on City with Arteta in the squad? Tactically, we needed to play smarter away from home in the big games because the amount of times we’ve lost being gung-ho.

[mastermind84]

You really need to rethink this one Mastermind. This Arteta/Ramsey link is totally false. Ramsey’s game isn’t dependent on Arteta. In 2013/14 season Ramsey was off to a bang and scored half of his goals (8) whilst Arteta wasn’t even playing. This is early in the season mind you. He had a positive pre-season and had a heck of QL Qualification scoring 3 goals across the two legs and Arteta wasn’t even playing. I think he was playing alongside Wilshere.
you're right about this.

That first leg at Fenerbace was probably his best midfield performance of that entire season. It was probably the best performance from an Arsenal player that season. He was utterly dominant that match.

The one thing I will point out in the CL qualifiers is that he played with Cazorla and Wilshere and Rosicky (Rosicky started the first leg, Santi the second leg). Those are players who can move the ball


From August to October he was paired with Flamini and scored the other 5 (not the 2 goals as you say). Back to back games. 5 goals in 4 games. He came out the blocks flying that season and you’re off your rocker if you think Flamini is technically better than Coquelin. Ramsey didn’t explode when Arteta won his spot back. I don’t know where you’re getting that from and total lie. He was in beast mode from the start of the season.
It wasnt a lie. I used the games Arteta played in (the next two after the Sunderland match)

And Flamini can at the very worst get the ball to Ramsey. Coquelin doesnt.


Also, it’s worth remembering he was injured from Boxing day and only played the remaining 4 games in the league and FA Cup final. Ramsey and Arteta played more games together in the previous 2012/13 season and he only managed 2 goals all season. Arteta wasn’t physically finished that season and played just as many games as he did the following season so what the heck happened? As for the Ramsey and Coquelin combo, we really haven’t seen them get a run of games together. It’s mainly been Coquelin and Santi.
the 2012/13 season, Wenger kept saying Ramsey was getting into the right positions but his finishing was off. He started finishing in 2013/14.


Do you really think we’d have been able to impose our game on City with Arteta in the squad? Tactically, we needed to play smarter away from home in the big games because the amount of times we’ve lost being gung-ho.
the point I am making is that we need someone the mode of Arteta who has more legs and more pace. We need to be able to build from the back. With Coquelin, the attack becomes disconnected.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's a bit unfair to judge Coquelin without considering the fact Cazorla and Ramsey routinely throw him under a bus. I know most disagree with this but you should watch why Coquelin often finds himself susceptible to having to make the last ditch challenge, or gets careless with the ball. Often it's because his midfield partner has gone missing or isn't tracking backwards as much as forwards. Often it's because he's up against two maybe three opponents at any given time. I think he copes well and I think we could be giving him a lot more support. But it's interesting how Ramsey has been criticised for being undisciplined when in fact it's the manage who has no discipline.

[Niall_Quinn]

Two years ago, Ramsey wasn't dictating a match's tempo. That was Arteta.

He has shown that ability though (we beat United 1-0 on his return back from the leg break and subsequent loans where he scored the goal) but I think he is at his best making marauding runs. There is a lot of intelligence in how he does it and when he picks his spots. Wilshere is nowhere near that level of thinking. It's why Ramsey/Ozil work so well together while Wilshere/Ozil doesn't.

_____________
Say what you want, but Yaya is still the best central midfielder in the premiership by a distance.

Didn't say he was. I'm saying he *could*, if he watched more Xavi videos than Stevie Me Specials. We have Ozil and Alexis, is Ramsey really going to be allowed to play the role he wants to play? Ultimately he's going to have to play a more conservative game, isn't he? Unless we are benching on of the other two.

Ramsey is a good player and can fit into this team but right now he's the odd man out. He doesn't really have a role and this indecision by the manager is having a knock-on effect on other players in the team.

Agreed on Wilshere though. Big shame. He needs to work under a different manager. Definite talent there and plenty of desire but you can't just send a kid out on the pitch and say do whatever the hell you want, because chances are he will.

[Niall_Quinn]

Just found this. Possibly the most optimistic tactics piece I have read in years. I say, "under the bus", he says, "decoy". I say, risky and bound to cause problems once or twice a game at least, he says, progressive and bound to cause the opponents problems once or twice a game at least. But it is another possible explanation for why Coquelin is often under extreme pressure. And if true, the lad is doing quite well really.

http://arseblog.com/2015/08/tactics-column-understanding-coquelincazorla-partnership-v-crystal-palace/

[Dein-machine]

It's a bit unfair to judge Coquelin without considering the fact Cazorla and Ramsey routinely throw him under a bus. I know most disagree with this but you should watch why Coquelin often finds himself susceptible to having to make the last ditch challenge, or gets careless with the ball. Often it's because his midfield partner has gone missing or isn't tracking backwards as much as forwards. Often it's because he's up against two maybe three opponents at any given time. I think he copes well and I think we could be giving him a lot more support. But it's interesting how Ramsey has been criticised for being undisciplined when in fact it's the manage who has no discipline.

Possibly its a mixture of all those things but possibly its also the fact that his footballing brain & ability isn't that good.
We certainly win more tackles in his area of the pitch with him there as opposed to Arteta or Flamini but it's what happens after that concerns me. Sunday also proved that his brain doesn't allow sensible mode when he's on a yellow card. Do we have to sub him now every time he gets a yellow ( which is virtually every game) because he doesn't have the sense to reel it in a bit.

[Dein-machine]

Just found this. Possibly the most optimistic tactics piece I have read in years. I say, "under the bus", he says, "decoy". I say, risky and bound to cause problems once or twice a game at least, he says, progressive and bound to cause the opponents problems once or twice a game at least. But it is another possible explanation for why Coquelin is often under extreme pressure. And if true, the lad is doing quite well really.

http://arseblog.com/2015/08/tactics-column-understanding-coquelincazorla-partnership-v-crystal-palace/



Yeh, see what you mean. The only things I would argue with is the fact that Wenger played as centre half, not DM,
at nowhere near the level of Pep, so I doubt Wenger had the same fears as him.
Also, if Wenger really hates the ball going near his goal - I would suggest he stops the silly substitutions when winning by a goal with 25 minutes left, where he takes of our best attacking players for defenders. If we're winning a game against lesser opposition why would not expect to get the next goal. Defending in numbers is a sure way to let your opponents get close to your goal time & time again.