Match Reaction: Newcastle 0-1 Arsenal

[Niall_Quinn]

He has to go.

[Marc Overmars]

Yay

[fakeyank]

Only 2 points off the top of the table.

Wenger! :bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

Own Goal must start next week!

[hobson's choice]

Hello 4th place

[adzzzbatch]

:sleep:

[Niall_Quinn]

Hello 4th place

Don't worry, we'll go on a run. It will be progress.

[Ralpheroo72]

Hello 4th place

44th! That's as bad as I've seen, our man of the match was own goal again.

[Niall_Quinn]

44th! That's as bad as I've seen, our man of the match was own goal again.

We need his dad Own Coyle to sign.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

FS have not watched game and probably won't bother.......but if Wenger doesn't go out a buy in these last few days...I can see me joining the lynch mob! We now know what is ahead.....CL group decided and we are getting no joy if we leave the squad as it is.......how many fucking shots have we had this season and what three goals? We need a striker.....if Benzema doesn't want to come then fuck him.....move on! If Cavani wants to come then fucking get him.....I am sick to death with our pussiness both on and off the pitch......we should have got Vidal and Morgan for the prices they went for we were again a bunch of slow mugs. How many DMs have we been linked with.....we even bid for Bender last year why are we not back for him....,.god this club winds me up

[adzzzbatch]

Fuck off McClaren you blind prick.

[LDG]

Didn't watch it, thank fuck.

Think I'll do what I did last year and just switch off and blank it out.

I'm in a pub, got beer and have just had an awesome day mucking about with the nipper. Who needs this money beats all shitfest.

[Master Splinter]

Gabriel has played well in two straight games. Two clean sheets. Dropped in the next game?

Monreal, Coquelin and Bellerin have probably been our most consistent players this year. Everyone else blows lukewarm and freezing too often.

No point commenting on Wenger, because he's not going to change and he's not going to be replaced.

[Niall_Quinn]

Didn't watch it, thank fuck.

Think I'll do what I did last year and just switch off and blank it out.

I'm in a pub, got beer and have just had an awesome day mucking about with the nipper. Who needs this money beats all shitfest.

Hello, my name is LDG and I'm an Arsenalholic. It has been 365 days since my last shitfest (round of applause)

[AFC Leveller]

Slowww non event.

We will not win the title or even go close, we doesn't have what it takes off the field or on the sidelines.

[Niall_Quinn]

Slowww non event.

We will not win the title or even go close, we doesn't have what it takes off the field or on the sidelines.

You said "doesn't"

[GP]

Played well, controlled it start to finish. We can't score goals at the moment. Theo was terrible. He isn't a centre forward.

[Niall_Quinn]

Played well, controlled it start to finish. We can't score goals at the moment. Theo was terrible. He isn't a centre forward.

Dude, we didn't play well. Couldn't pass, couldn't control the tempo unless it was sloooooow, were up against 10 and hardly made a decent chance and when we did the guy on the end of it was dire. Unless we turn it all around in the coming weeks (chavs, spuds, leicester) we're out of it again - already.

No way did we play well. True, we controlled it but we couldn't do anything with that control. And the geordithals were pure shite, hacking, clogging, shit shovellers that we should have swept aside with ease.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Bring back the counter attack.

Otherwise, Wenger out.

That is all.

[Niall_Quinn]

Bring back the counter attack.

And Wenger out.

That is all.

:gp:

[GP]

Dude, we didn't play well. Couldn't pass, couldn't control the tempo unless it was sloooooow, were up against 10 and hardly made a decent chance and when we did the guy on the end of it was dire. Unless we turn it all around in the coming weeks (chavs, spuds, leicester) we're out of it again - already.

No way did we play well. True, we controlled it but we couldn't do anything with that control. And the geordithals were pure shite, hacking, clogging, shit shovellers that we should have swept aside with ease.

Stop it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Stop it.

Do you think we are competing this year? Will we be there or thereabouts come in the final few weeks? Honest answer.

[Kano]

Bring back the counter attack.

Otherwise, Wenger out.

That is all.

You need natural width for that and every single one of our attacking players wants be central. It doesn't matter how we set up, the squad we have is badly unbalanced. As well as the manager leaving - which he won't - we need to get in the right players in the right positions. At least 3/4 need to be shipped out of that starting eleven to see real improvement.

[Niall_Quinn]

Stop it.

Another question for you. I'm watching the gypos and they are going to win etc, etc. But I am also hungry. But I just checked the fridge and the cupboard and there's fuck all in there except spaghetti. I'm starting to notice a strange correlation between a lack of food and the missus being at her mothers, probably a coincidence. Regardless, should I carry on watching the inevitable gypo win or should I make spaghetti with fuck all on it. There's custard. Does that work?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I thought today, ironically could have done with Ozil. The Ox was very frustrating before we went one up and I thought Coquelin still looks superb.

Thing about Walcott is you always sense he needs a few games to get into the swing of things, so when Wenger benches him, then randomly starts him, you're never really going to see the best of him straight away. I think RvP used to need several games to get into it a bit.

Cech had a cigar on and I'm happy for that to be commonplace. Our full backs are superb though I felt in games like this they should overlap the wide forwards even more.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ironically? We can't play without him.

Defence wasn't tested today. When we have been we've looked poor right across the back. When Bellerin and Monreal are in the comfort zone and can press up the field then they look good. When they are under pressure, not so good. Monreal a lot better than Bellerin defensively. I think the irony lies in the fact Monreal is slowly becoming our best defender. Bellerin has a long way to go and I think he's a midfielder rather than a defender. Bit like Gibbs.

[Letters]

Do you think we are competing this year?
Do you mean 'are' as in 'are right now'? Or do you mean 'will be'? If you mean 'right now' then we are if Chelsea are.

If you mean 'will be', who knows? It's 4 games in. So far it's been a mixed bag, results wise, but City aside no-one is sweeping all before them - and you know what City are like, they can get a bad result, start to sulk and go into freefall for a bit. Last season we lost it in the first 12 games, we cannot do that this year but right now after 4 games despite some ropey performances we're not out of it. Nor is anyone really after 4 games but realistically you cannot win 4 of your first 12 games, as we did last year, and expect to win the title. P4 W2 D1 L1 is neither stellar nor a disaster.

[GP]

Do you mean 'are' as in 'are right now'? Or do you mean 'will be'? If you mean 'right now' then we are if Chelsea are.

If you mean 'will be', who knows? It's 4 games in. So far it's been a mixed bag, results wise, but City aside no-one is sweeping all before them - and you know what City are like, they can get a bad result, start to sulk and go into freefall for a bit. Last season we lost it in the first 12 games, we cannot do that this year but right now after 4 games despite some ropey performances we're not out of it. Nor is anyone really after 4 games but realistically you cannot win 4 of your first 12 games, as we did last year, and expect to win the title. P4 W2 D1 L1 is neither stellar nor a disaster.

The lack of goals is the biggest worry. We've clearly been trying to address it but haven't been able to recruit our targets. There's time left, but it's a worry because I don't think we'll find internal solution.

[Niall_Quinn]

Do you mean 'are' as in 'are right now'? Or do you mean 'will be'? If you mean 'right now' then we are if Chelsea are.

If you mean 'will be', who knows? It's 4 games in. So far it's been a mixed bag, results wise, but City aside no-one is sweeping all before them - and you know what City are like, they can get a bad result, start to sulk and go into freefall for a bit. Last season we lost it in the first 12 games, we cannot do that this year but right now after 4 games despite some ropey performances we're not out of it. Nor is anyone really after 4 games but realistically you cannot win 4 of your first 12 games, as we did last year, and expect to win the title. P4 W2 D1 L1 is neither stellar nor a disaster.

"Who knows?" Surely you can't be serious? The point is - we do know. We have a decade to use as a measure and we also have a decade of the chavs to consider. Yes they have started badly but are you seriously telling me you don't know whether they will be competing for the title? If that's what you are saying then it's just wilful ignorance. Same applies when predicting what we'll do. We know. We can delude ourselves if we want but it won't change a thing.

How many seasons are you going to need before you can spot the blatant pattern?

[hobson's choice]

"Who knows?" Surely you can't be serious? The point is - we do know. We have a decade to use as a measure and we also have a decade of the chavs to consider. Yes they have started badly but are you seriously telling me you don't know whether they will be competing for the title? If that's what you are saying then it's just wilful ignorance. Same applies when predicting what we'll do. We know. We can delude ourselves if we want but it won't change a thing.

How many seasons are you going to need before you can spot the blatant pattern?

True

[fakeyank]

We will not be challenging this season in the PL or the CL.

Close that shit debate already. No need to pretend like its a suspense as to whats going to happen.

[Marc Overmars]

"Who knows?" Surely you can't be serious? The point is - we do know. We have a decade to use as a measure and we also have a decade of the chavs to consider. Yes they have started badly but are you seriously telling me you don't know whether they will be competing for the title? If that's what you are saying then it's just wilful ignorance. Same applies when predicting what we'll do. We know. We can delude ourselves if we want but it won't change a thing.

How many seasons are you going to need before you can spot the blatant pattern?

It's the same rationale every season. "No one has started well except for so and so". Well 1 team is all it takes to start well and before we know it we're out of it. These average, bare minimum performances are all too familiar for us and should have everyone's alarm bells ringing.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Newcastle came out to "let us know they are there", Sissoko booked very early on for a stamp (borderline red) so it was clear referee was on it yet they still went flying in dangerously. Red card was stonewall, they can have no complaints. Referee got one decision wrong all day and that was denying us a stonewall penalty. In the last two games, we have had to game changing decisions go against us. Ramsey offside and that penalty.

Coqualien did superbly today. Was the victim of several late and dangerous tackles and he didn't react. The newcastle crowd were putting pressure on the referee every decision and he didn't give the ref an excuse to book him or worse. Strong and disciplined.

The back four were superb. Solid, calm and dealt with everything

[Globalgunner]

Newcastle came out to "let us know they are there", Sissoko booked very early on for a stamp (borderline red) so it was clear referee was on it yet they still went flying in dangerously. Red card was stonewall, they can have no complaints. Referee got one decision wrong all day and that was denying us a stonewall penalty. In the last two games, we have had to game changing decisions go against us. Ramsey offside and that penalty.

Coqualien did superbly today. Was the victim of several late and dangerous tackles and he didn't react. The newcastle crowd were putting pressure on the referee every decision and he didn't give the ref an excuse to book him or worse. Strong and disciplined.

The back four were superb. Solid, calm and dealt with everything
Does that mean we have a chance?

[Dein-machine]

Today simply sums this team up under Wenger. Let's just do enough, enough to win enough games to get out top 4 finish.
Theo was shit but a team with 10 men for 70 minutes are going to knackered & we take our fastest striker off. He has no tactical nous whatsoever. How about a change at half time for once. We knew they had to defend, by all means bring Giroud to maybe take his 1 chance in 10 but get Theo & Ox up alongside him. Take off 1 of the CM's, the 2nd half was never going to be a midfield battle. I want a manager that wants to beat 10 men by 4 goals, not to pub it & think all is good.

[Master Splinter]

If Coquelin was a 6ft 4ins, square-jawed, square-shouldered brick shithouse and didn't play for foreign pussies Arsenal, every moron pundit would be falling over themselves to praise him and we'd be seeing United, City and Chelsea linked with a £40m move for him.

It's all about big names and reputations built on a few weeks of decent form, married to the myopic gushing from aforementioned moronic, small-minded pundits, rather than watching games and judging a player on what they actually do. His attempts to outdo Song in 2011/12 won't get him anywhere, but the rest of his game has been more than reliable.

[Letters]

It's the same rationale every season. "No one has started well except for so and so". Well 1 team is all it takes to start well and before we know it we're out of it. These average, bare minimum performances are all too familiar for us and should have everyone's alarm bells ringing.

The performances have been worrying, the results have been ok. Not spectacular, it doesn't shout title contenders at you but Chelsea's don't either. Last season we were out of if 12 games in, it's only 4 games in now and we're certainly not yet. Some of the 'patterns' from the last 10 seasons (to answer NQ's point) have been broken in the last couple of years. I'm thinking our problem in 'big games', the trophy drought, the lack of big signings (although this summer has been disappointing).

If we're going to throw in the towel already then why are we all bothering? :shrug:

[Dein-machine]

The performances have been worrying, the results have been ok. Not spectacular, it doesn't shout title contenders at you but Chelsea's don't either. Last season we were out of if 12 games in, it's only 4 games in now and we're certainly not yet. Some of the 'patterns' from the last 10 seasons (to answer NQ's point) have been broken in the last couple of years. I'm thinking our problem in 'big games', the trophy drought, the lack of big signings (although this summer has been disappointing).

If we're going to throw in the towel already then why are we all bothering? :shrug:

Why are we all bothering - a very valid question

[Dein-machine]

The performances have been worrying, the results have been ok. Not spectacular, it doesn't shout title contenders at you but Chelsea's don't either. Last season we were out of if 12 games in, it's only 4 games in now and we're certainly not yet. Some of the 'patterns' from the last 10 seasons (to answer NQ's point) have been broken in the last couple of years. I'm thinking our problem in 'big games', the trophy drought, the lack of big signings (although this summer has been disappointing).

If we're going to throw in the towel already then why are we all bothering? :shrug:

Why are we all bothering - a very valid question

[Bumble]

a win is a win after all. I suppose on the plus side we have played 3 of the top 7 already now... so the easier games should be ahead. we have won 8 in a row at Newcastle so nice to keep that going. And the Ox has to play. New signing Owen Gol doing well.

[Alpha]

I thought today, ironically could have done with Ozil. The Ox was very frustrating before we went one up and I thought Coquelin still looks superb.

Thing about Walcott is you always sense he needs a few games to get into the swing of things, so when Wenger benches him, then randomly starts him, you're never really going to see the best of him straight away. I think RvP used to need several games to get into it a bit.

Cech had a cigar on and I'm happy for that to be commonplace. Our full backs are superb though I felt in games like this they should overlap the wide forwards even more.

Your post is one of the best in this match reaction . You describe exactly what happened during the game whilst others are just writing about their own frustration . well done .
:gp:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Ironically? We can't play without him.

Defence wasn't tested today. When we have been we've looked poor right across the back. When Bellerin and Monreal are in the comfort zone and can press up the field then they look good. When they are under pressure, not so good. Monreal a lot better than Bellerin defensively. I think the irony lies in the fact Monreal is slowly becoming our best defender. Bellerin has a long way to go and I think he's a midfielder rather than a defender. Bit like Gibbs.

Well people have often mooted the idea of shoehorning his best 11 into the side as a bad thing......and the fact is we should be able to beat a nervous, hyper and over reactive Newcastle with a man down with the players we had on the field.

It is more than possible that Ozil would have played today, created several golden chances, all or most of which we failed to convert. The bigger problem right now is woeful finishing right throughout the team.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well people have often mooted the idea of shoehorning his best 11 into the side as a bad thing......and the fact is we should be able to beat a nervous, hyper and over reactive Newcastle with a man down with the players we had on the field.

It is more than possible that Ozil would have played today, created several golden chances, all or most of which we failed to convert. The bigger problem right now is woeful finishing right throughout the team.

Our finishing, or lack of it, is a different and extra problem. But without Ozil we can't seem to pass. Our passing today was as bad as I have even seen it. Ramsey in particular was horrendous. I'm trying to figure out how we have managed to get a lot worse since last season with the same squad. There were times last season when we looked like a team. So far this season there hasn't been a hint of that. That's before we get to the terrible finishing and the goal ratio of 1 to every 100 chances. We need a striker, Wenger has done his £1 extra for Suarez and now his Benzema routine. Sanogo is who we actually got and Walcott and Bif could have peppered an empty net today for hours on end and not scored a goal.

Another worrying sight, Alexis is still running his guts out but he is becoming less and less effective on each outing. I think Wenger has found a way to neutralise him.

[Özim]

Pubbed a win against 10 men, we're kinda provingwhat many of us thought before the season started that we're well short of any kind of title challenge without some signings (and maybe a new manager), as I said before the season had begun we weren't good enough last season and one keeper doesn't change that, sadly we have a manager (and some fans) in total denial who thinks we can win everything under the sun.

[PGFC]

Pubbed a win against 10 men, we're kinda provingwhat many of us thought before the season started that we're well short of any kind of title challenge without some signings (and maybe a new manager), as I said before the season had begun we weren't good enough last season and one keeper doesn't change that, sadly we have a manager (and some fans) in total denial who thinks we can win everything under the sun.

Didn't watch it again eh? great work :good:

[Özim]

Didn't watch it again eh? great work :good:

Yeah spot on, Wenger didn't watch it.

[Letters]

Pubbed a win against 10 men, we're kinda provingwhat many of us thought before the season started that we're well short of any kind of title challenge without some signings.

But Chelsea are good enough after their results thus far?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The thing is Letters we can't gauge how well we are doing by how other teams are doing, what matters and what only matters is how we perform. Can our defeat to West Ham be put into perspective by the hammering they have to Liverpool today? No not really the fact is for all the weird results going for the away sides, our failure to win against West Ham can only be explained by our complacency and lack of incisiveness.
The fact remains that we won all four of the fixtures we played last season and only got seven points from the same ones this season....and the dropped points result from the failure to address a pattern of failing to break teams down when playing at home.
There feeds into the bigger issue of not being clinical.

[Özim]

They won the title last season so clearly they're capable. We've not won the title in 10 years and were nowhere near winning it last season either.

Chelsea have had a terrible start, but they've proved they're capable of winning it, we were well short last season and other than a keeper little has changed so I couldn't see how we could challenge without a few more signings. Wenger has been his stubborn self and wasted the whole summer and now appears to be trying to get a bargain on the last day, hope it works out for him.

I just can't see us challenging unless Wenger pulls off a spectacular signing or two before the window closes, which seems highly improbable considering what seems to be available and the type of manager we have.

[Niall_Quinn]

But Chelsea are good enough after their results thus far?

What have the chavs got to do with it? Why mention them when we are talking about Arsenal's performances? This is how you explained away our collapse at the end of last season that saw the gypos cruise past us. The chavs had won the title then, so it was "understandable" we'd ease off (just like the gypos didn't).

Now the chavs have started badly so what does that mean? Does it make it "understandable" that we have started badly too? Again?

What about the gypos then? They have started well. What does that mean?

And Bournemouth, they are all over the place. What do their performances mean for us?

[Letters]

Collapse :lol:

WUMming :bow:

[Letters]

The thing is Letters we can't gauge how well we are doing by how other teams are doing, what matters and what only matters is how we perform.

No, the only thing that matters is results.
You cannot on the one hand dismiss our chances by citing our performances and results thus far and take Chelsea seriously as contenders when theirs have been worse.

Actually, nothing can sensibly be concluded thus far. We're 4 games in, the table won't properly take shape until a bit later and even then things can change as teams go on runs or have poor patches.

[Niall_Quinn]

Collapse :lol:

WUMming :bow:

Didn't take you long to get back in the groove.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Our finishing, or lack of it, is a different and extra problem. But without Ozil we can't seem to pass. Our passing today was as bad as I have even seen it. Ramsey in particular was horrendous. I'm trying to figure out how we have managed to get a lot worse since last season with the same squad. There were times last season when we looked like a team. So far this season there hasn't been a hint of that. That's before we get to the terrible finishing and the goal ratio of 1 to every 100 chances. We need a striker, Wenger has done his £1 extra for Suarez and now his Benzema routine. Sanogo is who we actually got and Walcott and Bif could have peppered an empty net today for hours on end and not scored a goal.

Another worrying sight, Alexis is still running his guts out but he is becoming less and less effective on each outing. I think Wenger has found a way to neutralise him.

Worryingly our passing has been worse against West Ham this season, never mind as far as last season. I didn't think it was too bad today....I just really think the whole team needs to put one lamb to the slaughter and properly get the season under way. Yes we need firepower too....proper firepower, but I thought that way before, just before and just after the season started.

[Niall_Quinn]

No, the only thing that matters is results.

There are 1,001 other things that matter in order to get the results. You absolutely *can* judge the 4 performances we've put in so far. This nonsense about the table taking shape later, well these 4 games will count towards that table and the performances we've put in so far will contribute towards how we press on with the season. So you can judge a lot and it all counts.

[Niall_Quinn]

Worryingly our passing has been worse against West Ham this season, never mind as far as last season. I didn't think it was too bad today....I just really think the whole team needs to put one lamb to the slaughter and properly get the season under way. Yes we need firepower too....proper firepower, but I thought that way before, just before and just after the season started.

The slow start - it was the one thing we couldn't afford (apart from any signings). We've done it again. This is Wenger's job, isn't it? To prepare the squad and have them ready to go at the starting gun. Two seasons in a row where he's failed. How does he keep his job? It can only be because our board doesn't care about the football results and only have eyes for the financial results. We lack that streak of ruthlessness that all sporting winners have. Throughout the club, from top to bottom, we are soft. Ruthless on the finances though, I'll give then that.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Sanchez I have sympathy with him on.....but the rest of them?

The officiating in the last few games hasn't helped though and perhaps might have changed the complexion of both the last 2 games. In regards to the firepower, we can't all agree on whether Benzema or Cavani or whoever are of the requisite quality amongst us on this board which goes some way in highlighting the dearth of quality around. It's a bit of a worry as I don't see it being a whole lot better next summer but we're going to have to hope something obscure or within our means comes up.

[alexander]

The chavs had won the title then, so it was "understandable" we'd ease off (just like the gypos didn't).



But man City didnt have an FA Cup final to think about.

[alexander]

Not a great performance, but we are nicely poised behind the leaders. This season, more than any other going on results so far, points towards more `mid table, bottom end` teams taking points off the top teams. apart from City, who do look very good at this point, I dont think any team is excelling. United look average, their defence is woeful, keeper dodgy. Chavs look shite all over the pitch tbh, Pool have looked very dodgy. Spurs are the usual cack. There have been lots of 1-0 wins, none, apart from city have excelled. There is a long way to go, our defence and goal looks solid, midfield has been creating chances, all we need to do is start scoring.
Im not giving up hope yet.

[Kano]

No, the only thing that matters is results.
You cannot on the one hand dismiss our chances by citing our performances and results thus far and take Chelsea seriously as contenders when theirs have been worse.

Actually, nothing can sensibly be concluded thus far. We're 4 games in, the table won't properly take shape until a bit later and even then things can change as teams go on runs or have poor patches.
You can't compare us to a team and manager that have title winning credentials. That's why it's daft to compare us to Chelsea or City. They can start poorly but because of their recent history you can presume they will be in the hunt for the title. We start poorly, what have we got to base any potential turn around on? There is nothing except hope which is completely unmeasurable. Comparing us to Chelsea's start is pointless. Everyone knows they have the potential to get their shit together and grind their way back into things if necessary.

[Power n Glory]

No, the only thing that matters is results.
You cannot on the one hand dismiss our chances by citing our performances and results thus far and take Chelsea seriously as contenders when theirs have been worse.

Actually, nothing can sensibly be concluded thus far. We're 4 games in, the table won't properly take shape until a bit later and even then things can change as teams go on runs or have poor patches.

In a few months you'll be back to summing up our poor misfortune because of infinite money cheats like Chelsea. One minute they're indestructible and the next they're vulnerable and we can take them. Make your mind up.

[Kano]

Thankfully Letters still argues his corner. Otherwise they'd just be one tone of voice on here for the whole season which would be utter shit.

[Munchies]

Wenger has taken us to the point where we don't even know how to attack anymore

[fakeyank]

But Chelsea are good enough after their results thus far?

You always point to other teams failures as a way of justifying our teams failures. If everyone fails, somehow it is acceptable for us to fail as well. Unfortunately this mediocrity line of thinking runs among the fans and the entire club. :ilt:

Anyway, Chelsea have enough titles and a manager who has a history of winning in recent years, so the odds of them turning it around is higher than Arsenal. Now think about the manager we have and what he has achieved in contrast to Mourinho in terms of winning and you will know the answer... if you absolutely had to bet your life on which of the two clubs can turn it around, who would you put the money on?

[Grebbo]

Err we won... what's with all the moaning?

[Niall_Quinn]

Err we won... what's with all the moaning?

Key areas highlighted.

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a433/qwerty12343/table-aug_zpsags5rbab.png

In a year we are supposed to be mounting a title challenge we have a manager who wonders if we need to sign a striker. We bummed 3 points off Newcastle, this is true. It offsets the massive problem we have to a small degree. We won't be getting enough of those points over the course of the season though, which is a pain because we have some pretty decent players. But we've been here before many times.

[I am invisible]

How'd the defence look yesterday? Did Koscielny and Gabriel look like they have the makings of a decent pairing?

[GP]

How'd the defence look yesterday? Did Koscielny and Gabriel look like they have the makings of a decent pairing?

They had nothing to do, really.

[Syn]

Very good 3 points - top teams will drop points against them (Man Utd already have). But it was a very poor performance. Chamberlain and Walcott were embarrassing for all the pace and power they're supposed to bring. We're in trouble next month unless Sanchez gets back to speed and starts scoring.

[I am invisible]

This is a really confusing season for me? I've not really watched any of the games yet, so I'm largely going of stats and match reports - one side of it is showing that we've had more shots on goal than any other side in the league (over 20 a game, on average), and have just kept our second clean sheet in 4 games... but from everything I've read in reports and on here, we sound like a fucking shambles?!

What the hell is going on? Are we really that awful at the moment, or are we just getting more and more jittery because none of these chances are going in to settle us down?

[Niall_Quinn]

This is a really confusing season for me? I've not really watched any of the games yet, so I'm largely going of stats and match reports - one side of it is showing that we've had more shots on goal than any other side in the league (over 20 a game, on average), and have just kept our second clean sheet in 4 games... but from everything I've read in reports and on here, we sound like a fucking shambles?!

What the hell is going on? Are we really that awful at the moment, or are we just getting more and more jittery because none of these chances are going in to settle us down?

We need to sign a striker and an authoritative midfielder. Mind you, we've needed to do that for an age now so no real change. We have Cazorla playing a dual midfield role and he's not very good at it. Wenger thinks he is though, so that's why we have Coquelin (who is doing excellently considering) under so much pressure. Bif needs ten chances to convert one, not that we play to his strengths anyway. Walcott is imagined as a striker but we always crash back to reality when he gets a chance to show what he can't do. In terms of extracting what is possible from the team and squad (and we have seen some very good performances on a one-off basis) we have a manager who refuses to do it. He also refuses to sign the players we really need, but he's been refusing to do that for years. It's not a shambles, it's just a waste. Our defence looks good when we are up against teams that park the bus, but it falls to pieces against teams with more ambitions. Kos hasn't started well but he'll improve. Gabriel looks to be a prospect but he'll need to get up to speed very quickly and we'll need Wenger to make a decision on Merts, which no doubt he'll shirk.

[Letters]

Err we won... what's with all the moaning?

Seems the thing to do on here these days.

If we play well but drop points then moan about the result.
If we play poorly but win then moan about the performance.

We've not looked that good so far thus one can conclude that we have no chance even though it's only 4 games in.

Chelsea though, who are below us, have a great chance and we shouldn't conclude anything from their poor start as it's only 4 games in.


Meh.

[Niall_Quinn]

Seems the thing to do on here these days.

If we play well but drop points then moan about the result.
If we play poorly but win then moan about the performance.

We've not looked that good so far thus one can conclude that we have no chance even though it's only 4 games in.

Chelsea though, who are below us, have a great chance and we shouldn't conclude anything from their poor start as it's only 4 games in.


Meh.

And you call other people WUMs?

[Letters]

What I've said is exactly what happens on here.
A lot of it has happened in this thread.
:lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

What I've said is exactly what happens on here.
A lot of it has happened in this thread.
:lol:

I suppose it is, if you simplify to the extreme and studiously ignore the responses you get when you post up this sort of tripe. You're the guy fixated on the chavs, everyone else has been telling you to ignore them and have a look closer to home.

[Letters]

Closer to home I see worrying performances, but results have been okish. From what I heard the Liverpool game could have been a win as the goal should have stood.
No-one is arguing that everything is awesome at Arsenal, I am concerned by the performances. But this lot showed they were a good team last year, I don't suddenly think they've become a bad one.
You don't win the title in the first 10 games but you can lose it, if we muddle through results-wise, even if our performances are poor, and stay in the race then we have a chance. Last season we showed we could stand up in big games and we showed we could cope in high pressure games. Good qualities if you want to be champions. IMO we're good enough to challenge so while I'd be happier if we'd signed a striker we should have quite a lot of goals in this team - the lack of them so far is somewhat baffling and troubling.

End of the day, it's a results business. We're not playing well but our results are good enough so far to keep us in the hunt, so long as that continues I don't see there's cause for too much moaning - especially after a win.

[Niall_Quinn]

Closer to home I see worrying performances, but results have been okish. From what I heard the Liverpool game could have been a win as the goal should have stood.
No-one is arguing that everything is awesome at Arsenal, I am concerned by the performances. But this lot showed they were a good team last year, I don't suddenly think they've become a bad one.
You don't win the title in the first 10 games but you can lose it, if we muddle through results-wise, even if our performances are poor, and stay in the race then we have a chance. Last season we showed we could stand up in big games and we showed we could cope in high pressure games. Good qualities if you want to be champions. IMO we're good enough to challenge so while I'd be happier if we'd signed a striker we should have quite a lot of goals in this team - the lack of them so far is somewhat baffling and troubling.

End of the day, it's a results business. We're not playing well but our results are good enough so far to keep us in the hunt, so long as that continues I don't see there's cause for too much moaning - especially after a win.

If we're serious then we can't be going on about ref's decisions and almost winning stuff. We aren't controlling games, we aren't obtaining results in an organised and professional manner. It's so easy to spot when a team is playing with authority and confidence. We are playing with neither, mostly due to the chaotic and disorganised approach of our manager. He mistakes possession for control, a fluked 3 points for progress. He's obstinate and infuriating but not stupid, he knows what we need and what we are seeing now is the result of his ongoing failure to deliver on those requirements. He has 1 day left, unless tomorrow's bank holiday is being ignored. In fact it's less than a day, isn't it? Because the window closes as 6 not 12. The first 4 games tell us everything we need to know. Nothing has changed with this manager despite the facts his "methods" have consistently failed to deliver. I hope he's on the phone non-stop because he needs to be. Then he needs to sit himself in a corner and have a word with himself.

[Dein-machine]

Seems the thing to do on here these days.

If we play well but drop points then moan about the result.
If we play poorly but win then moan about the performance.

We've not looked that good so far thus one can conclude that we have no chance even though it's only 4 games in.

Chelsea though, who are below us, have a great chance and we shouldn't conclude anything from their poor start as it's only 4 games in.


Meh.

If you read the Newcastle match thread plus many more over the past few years you will see that virtually every poster in unhappy with the performance even when we're winning the game. Under Wenger points won't win us the title, it's pointless getting into the C.L ( unless you think of finance ). The only positive of 3 points is to finish above Spurs.
All of this is down to poor players in key positions & Wenger trying to play a system of football that needs better players on the pitch. Where I agree with you is that certain posters like me seem to be able to moan every week whatever the result & what good does it do us - the only good is does for me ( moaning on GW ) is to see that others see what I see & to know that I am not turning mad.
When we play with pace & with the handbrake off like West Brom & cup final - have a look at my posts then. It's not because we won both games 4-0 that I thought we were good - the fact that we were good meant we won 4-0.

[Power n Glory]

Closer to home I see worrying performances, but results have been okish. From what I heard the Liverpool game could have been a win as the goal should have stood.
No-one is arguing that everything is awesome at Arsenal, I am concerned by the performances. But this lot showed they were a good team last year, I don't suddenly think they've become a bad one.
You don't win the title in the first 10 games but you can lose it, if we muddle through results-wise, even if our performances are poor, and stay in the race then we have a chance. Last season we showed we could stand up in big games and we showed we could cope in high pressure games. Good qualities if you want to be champions. IMO we're good enough to challenge so while I'd be happier if we'd signed a striker we should have quite a lot of goals in this team - the lack of them so far is somewhat baffling and troubling.

End of the day, it's a results business. We're not playing well but our results are good enough so far to keep us in the hunt, so long as that continues I don't see there's cause for too much moaning - especially after a win.

There is plenty to moan about because people are concerned about the performance. In the opening name when we lost to West Ham you accused people of not being able to separate the performance from result. Nonsense of course because today's performance wasn't good enough and it would be crazy for anyone to ignore it just because we got 3 points. It's great we picked up all 3 points but we must do better because we might not be so fortunate in the next game.

[Letters]

Yes, and as I said I'm concerned about the performance. But looking around, only City have had a good run at the start of this season. Our results have been fine, our performances poor but I don't believe we're suddenly a poor team.
It's nonsense to write off our chances after 4 games, especially when from last year's top 4 only City are doing better than us. Utd have the same points, Chelsea have fewer and a worse goal difference. Those are the teams we should be competing with so it's perfectly valid to look at how they're doing in comparison to us (although after 4 games any comparisons are less meaningful, let's see where we all are at Christmas and then Easter). Had we lost all 4 games we'd be 12 points behind already and I'd agree that even this early we could pretty much write off our chances, but we haven't.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Letters I think you're the only one who thinks we performed well against West Ham, we didn't seriously test Adrian until we were 2-0 down

Palace we were good going forward but shocking when out of position

Liverpool the first half we were utter drivel, second half Liverpool didn't press home their advantage and we controlled the game

Newcastle we did miss Ozil, but also we were reluctant to run with the ball to draw fouls and open up space.

[Dein-machine]

our performances would improve with a leader in midfield pushing the team forward & a clinical finisher who has movement upfront. But Wenger chooses to stick with players who will not improve our performances. He doesn't know who to play upfront, how can that be when he's had so long to address it.

[Letters]

Letters I think you're the only one who thinks we performed well against West Ham, we didn't seriously test Adrian until we were 2-0 down

Palace we were good going forward but shocking when out of position

Liverpool the first half we were utter drivel, second half Liverpool didn't press home their advantage and we controlled the game

Newcastle we did miss Ozil, but also we were reluctant to run with the ball to draw fouls and open up space.

I didn't think we were that good against West Ham, but we weren't that bad either. I've been travelling a lot over the last 2 weeks and missed the other games so can't really comment but 2 wins and a draw is decent enough so while it's not the stellar start we'd have hoped for, we're holding our own so far.

People are so negative on here these days I suspect even if we had won all 4 games some would be saying we'll only collapse at the business end of the season (with some justification, I suppose, but last season in particular gives me more hope we can stand up and be counted when it matters).

[Munchies]

Monk IN

Wenger OUT

[Power n Glory]

Yes, and as I said I'm concerned about the performance. But looking around, only City have had a good run at the start of this season. Our results have been fine, our performances poor but I don't believe we're suddenly a poor team.
It's nonsense to write off our chances after 4 games, especially when from last year's top 4 only City are doing better than us. Utd have the same points, Chelsea have fewer and a worse goal difference. Those are the teams we should be competing with so it's perfectly valid to look at how they're doing in comparison to us (although after 4 games any comparisons are less meaningful, let's see where we all are at Christmas and then Easter). Had we lost all 4 games we'd be 12 points behind already and I'd agree that even this early we could pretty much write off our chances, but we haven't.

We're not suddenly a poor team but we're not looking like contenders either. That's the point. What our rivals do isn't important because the struggles they're having now I suspect will be ironed out over the course of the season. With us, we've had problems for years with teams that defend deep and also we've got another important player out injured. It's not looking good for our title hopes and we need to sharpen up quickly.

[Power n Glory]

I didn't think we were that good against West Ham, but we weren't that bad either. I've been travelling a lot over the last 2 weeks and missed the other games so can't really comment but 2 wins and a draw is decent enough so while it's not the stellar start we'd have hoped for, we're holding our own so far.

People are so negative on here these days I suspect even if we had won all 4 games some would be saying we'll only collapse at the business end of the season (with some justification, I suppose, but last season in particular gives me more hope we can stand up and be counted when it matters).

Based on what? Are you looking at the title or 4th place?

[Letters]

Based on what? Are you looking at the title or 4th place?

I'm looking at the games in Manchester, particularly the Utd quarter final which is the exact sort of game we've fallen apart in. And the final was a very comfortable win - it should be against Villa but we nearly made a hash of the previous year final against weak opposition. We showed we can win under pressure. You win the title in the last 10 games, not the first 10. What we can't do this year is start so poorly we're out of it before we get going. So far, despite some patchy performances, our results have been fine, good enough to keep us in touch and right now that's the most important thing.

[Power n Glory]

I'm looking at the games in Manchester, particularly the Utd quarter final which is the exact sort of game we've fallen apart in. And the final was a very comfortable win - it should be against Villa but we nearly made a hash of the previous year final against weak opposition. We showed we can win under pressure. You win the title in the last 10 games, not the first 10. What we can't do this year is start so poorly we're out of it before we get going. So far, despite some patchy performances, our results have been fine, good enough to keep us in touch and right now that's the most important thing.

That's the cup run. What about the league? You say you don't win the title in the first 10 games but you were pretty vocal about our slow start costing us and we're off to a slow start. If you look at our performances you can see we're not in the best of shape and it's not good looking at big games against Utd and City. What about the loses to teams like Swansea, Stoke, Spurs and Southampton? Drawing against Leicester City and Hull? Besides not being able to beat Utd or Chelsea in the league last year, we only took 1 point from both games against Spurs and 0 points from both games against Swansea. We still make a hash of things against smaller teams and it's the park the bus teams we just can't seem to break down.

[Ernesto]

"Who knows?" Surely you can't be serious? The point is - we do know. We have a decade to use as a measure and we also have a decade of the chavs to consider. Yes they have started badly but are you seriously telling me you don't know whether they will be competing for the title? If that's what you are saying then it's just wilful ignorance. Same applies when predicting what we'll do. We know. We can delude ourselves if we want but it won't change a thing.

How many seasons are you going to need before you can spot the blatant pattern?

I think that's a very good post.

It comes as no surprise that the last time we won our opening two games in a premier league season was the last time we finished in the top two. Moreover, the last time we started as Man City did was in the Invincible season.

Start as you mean to go on. While a four to six game winning streak isn't beyond the realms of expectation for this side, I dread to think how far off the top we'll be when we get a run like that together.

[Letters]

That's the cup run. What about the league?

I'm not convinced it matters what competition it's in. Pressure is pressure, and the City game was in the league.
And last year when we got going we got as many points as Chelsea, not over a short run but over 26 games in the league
And we had that run of 9 wins in a row. After our start though we'd made it impossible to compete. Are we off to a slow start this year? City are sweeping all before them thus far but of the other teams who you may considers contenders our start is the same or better than all of them. You can cherry pick bad results from last year, I can cherry pick good ones. End of the day all we have to do this year, for now, is stay in touch. Last year we sorted ourselves out but it was too late. This year the performances may have been poor but the results have been good enough to keep us in contention. I agree we need to pick up but if Chelsea are contenders after their bad start then we surely are - as much as anyone can be considered a contender or not after 4 games.

Would you consider us contenders had we won all 4 games or would you just think we'll mess it up anyway?
If we're there or thereabouts with 10 games to go then we have a chance.

[Niall_Quinn]

I agree we need to pick up but if Chelsea are contenders after their bad start then we surely are

You have blind spots, don't you? The chavs have a bollocks of a bloke in charge, but he's a top manager. We have a bollocks of a manager who is a top bloke. Hence, yes, the chavs will be challenging and no, we won't. For confirmation please see previous nine seasons.

[Letters]

You know full well that the previous 9 seasons are increasingly less relevant the further you go back.
By that logic we can't have won the Cup for the last 2 years because of the previous 7 seasons.
The new level of signings have made a difference, we were winning games last year which we wouldn't have won in previous seasons and while I wish we'd done more in the summer we should be good enough to compete.

Edit: I agree there's little evidence of that so far in terms of performances but you could say the same for Chelsea and we know they'll be up there come May.

[Power n Glory]

I'm not convinced it matters what competition it's in. Pressure is pressure, and the City game was in the league.
And last year when we got going we got as many points as Chelsea, not over a short run but over 26 games in the league
And we had that run of 9 wins in a row. After our start though we'd made it impossible to compete. Are we off to a slow start this year? City are sweeping all before them thus far but of the other teams who you may considers contenders our start is the same or better than all of them. You can cherry pick bad results from last year, I can cherry pick good ones. End of the day all we have to do this year, for now, is stay in touch. Last year we sorted ourselves out but it was too late. This year the performances may have been poor but the results have been good enough to keep us in contention. I agree we need to pick up but if Chelsea are contenders after their bad start then we surely are - as much as anyone can be considered a contender or not after 4 games.

Would you consider us contenders had we won all 4 games or would you just think we'll mess it up anyway?
If we're there or thereabouts with 10 games to go then we have a chance.

Of course it matters. The opening day was a pressure game and we lost. What other teams do doesn't matter. The focus is on us and whether we've actually learned anything from the past few seasons and it's looking like we haven't.

If we'd have won convincingly won the 4 open games and I'd seen something in the side I haven't seen before then I'd be convinced. Think back to the 2013/14 season where we had that discussion on our title chances and I was convinced we had a shot. We only needed to sign a striker. The squad looked more organised and we had a boost in confidence with that Ozil signing. This year, there isn't anything to go on. We have injuries already, shaky defensive displays, disjointed midfield play and no goals. Besides that, Wenger still doesn't know how to utilize his squad, makes odd subs, we still have no answers tactically for a well organised defensive team we've already got injuries to key players. It all sounds very doom and gloom but there isn't anything on offer to make me think we'll have a different season. A long way to go but it's not as if I haven't been watching the pattern and trends for the past decade or so.

[Kano]

Last season we picked up a paltry 14 points from the teams in the top 8. That's a total of 14 from 42.

Talking about beating City and Utd sounds great in isolation but set against a wider context of our performances against the better teams in the league, immediately above and below us, and it looks less impressive. There is an argument that you can win the league and still perform poorly in the top 4 mini-league but I'm sure that doesn't extend to almost half the league too.

[Niall_Quinn]

You know full well that the previous 9 seasons are increasingly less relevant the further you go back.
By that logic we can't have won the Cup for the last 2 years because of the previous 7 seasons.
The new level of signings have made a difference, we were winning games last year which we wouldn't have won in previous seasons and while I wish we'd done more in the summer we should be good enough to compete.

Edit: I agree there's little evidence of that so far in terms of performances but you could say the same for Chelsea and we know they'll be up there come May.

The new signings haven't made a difference, because Wenger doesn't know how to use them. Stick Ozil and Alexis in any other club and it's an instant improvement - here they just get drowned in Wenger's tappy sewageball. How many more seasons are you going to bang on about progress and improvements when such things simply don't exist? So what if we had the odd decent game here or there, you'd expect at least that wouldn't you, considering the money sloshing around the place and the facilities and the operation as a whole. What, 10 decent performances a year tops? Where you can come away and say we really played some decent stuff there (regardless of the result). And 50 lumps of shit for the rest of the time, the players jogging around playing pretty triangles and running into brick walls. 1 day for Wenger to bring in a couple of players that can work with the likes of Ozil and Alexis to overcome the ongoing and extreme deficiencies of our manager.

[GP]

Do you know what will make things better?

Crying about it.

[Power n Glory]

You know full well that the previous 9 seasons are increasingly less relevant the further you go back.
By that logic we can't have won the Cup for the last 2 years because of the previous 7 seasons.
The new level of signings have made a difference, we were winning games last year which we wouldn't have won in previous seasons and while I wish we'd done more in the summer we should be good enough to compete.

Edit: I agree there's little evidence of that so far in terms of performances but you could say the same for Chelsea and we know they'll be up there come May.

Rubbish. We've had seasons where we've beaten Chelsea and City. Beat the breaks off Chelsea 5-3 in that season. Seasons where we've beaten Milan and Bayern and it's gone down as some landmark as a testament of our 'growth and belief'. This is before our new signings. It's not about who we beat.

[Niall_Quinn]

Do you know what will make things better?

Crying about it.

What was the unedited version?

[Letters]

What other teams do doesn't matter.
:blink: What?!

[Letters]

The basic argument boils down to "we can't win the league because Wenger is a bumbling incompetent ".

If you believe that then why bother watching? One of the great things about sport is its unpredictability. Go and see a concert or show and you're pretty much guaranteed to have a good time, with football...FY may be there and thus ensure a limp home defeat and you may have an awful afternoon - and to cap it all you'll have had to meet FY before the game :ilt: (love you really, FY :hug: - no homo). One of the things which had made football rubbish is the ever spiralling money and the inequality in its distribution which has made football predictable. That is a bad thing in any sport. If you look at the league tables in the 60s and 70s you'll see a lot of different sides winning the league and a side may win the league one year and finish 8th the next. Unless Moyes takes over the reigning champions that is pretty much impossible now and only one of a few teams can realistically win it, and they're the same teams every year. All that said, we are one of those few teams IMO. Wenger has his flaws but he's not incompetent - no-one outside the Arsenal fanbase believes that he is.

It's not unreasonable to think that Wenger can't win us the league but stop trying to dress the argument up as "we can't win it because or our bad performances so far" or because we haven't won every game like City have, that argument doesn't wash because if we're out of it already then so are Utd and Chelsea. If we stay in the hunt and are there or thereabouts with 10 games left then we have a chance IMO. The performances have been poor so far but we know they're capable of much better, right now it's all about results.

[Letters]

The new signings haven't made a difference
Our trophy cabinet begs to differ.

[Letters]

The opening day was a pressure game and we lost.
Oh by the way, this is utter balls. No game at this stage is a pressure game. An FA Cup quarter final is a pressure game, a game against...well, anyone really in the last 10 games when you're in the title race is a pressure game. The first game of the season? Not really. And if that was a pressure game then surely the Palace game was even more pressured - lose the first 2 and you're arguably out of it already - and we won that one.

The performances have been shoddy so far but we know we're capable of better and while we're pubbing results and staying in the hunt that's good enough right now.

[Power n Glory]

Oh by the way, this is utter balls. No game at this stage is a pressure game. An FA Cup quarter final is a pressure game, a game against...well, anyone really in the last 10 games when you're in the title race is a pressure game. The first game of the season? Not really. And if that was a pressure game then surely the Palace game was even more pressured - lose the first 2 and you're arguably out of it already - and we won that one.

The performances have been shoddy so far but we know we're capable of better and while we're pubbing results and staying in the hunt that's good enough right now.

It was a game to make a statement and Wenger. It's not the pressure of the FA Cup or back to wall type of pressure put it's the first impression/audition type pressure where you fly or flee.


Arsenal face two London derbies in August - against West Ham and Crystal Palace - as well as testing games against Liverpool and Newcastle before the end of the month.

He said: "We're ready for a fight and we're motivated to start well. One of our targets is to start strong.

"We have the needed ingredients to succeed but we have a tricky start with two London derbies."

Argue it until your blue in the face but the aim for us was to start well and we didn't. The players and manager set a target for a strong start and we're not looking strong at all.

[Letters]

Everyone wants to start well, only City have.

[Power n Glory]

Everyone wants to start well, only City have.

Yes and we're 5 points behind them. It doesn't matter what our rivals do in this case. If you're going to churn out stats about our run last season where we matched Chelsea 'stride for stride', then why can't we do it when it counts? Why do we look so miserable in all departments when our aim was to get off to a good start. It's a message I was trying to get through to you last season. We need to match teams stride for stride when it counts.

[Letters]

Why are Chelsea contenders if we aren't? They're below us.
What do you mean, when it matters? It always matters but really you win the title in the last 10 games, not the first 10.
What we can't do is let anyone get too far ahead of us like we did last year. 5 points at this stage is nothing.
If we'd lost the first 4 games I'd be worried, so long as we're pubbing results and staying in touch that's fine for now.
Obviously I'd be happier if we'd won all 4 games convincingly but that wouldn't make us champions elect any more than our results and performances so far make us alsorans.

[Penguin]

Of course there was pressure. Wenger, the players, our fans and even pundits have been saying that we need to start well to have any chance of winning the league after what happened last season. We flopped as usual. It's all good though, because we'll put together a 6 game win streak at some point to secure 4th.


Why are Chelsea contenders if we aren't? They're below us.
What do you mean, when it matters? It always matters but really you win the title in the last 10 games, not the first 10.
I must have missed it when we won the league last season :sarcy:

[Letters]

We flopped :lol:
Yeah, but Chelsea have a great chance.

[Injury Time]

We just need to do the double over Citeh and the league is ours...that's how it works right? :unsure: #5ptsofftheleadafter4games

[Power n Glory]

Why are Chelsea contenders if we aren't? They're below us.
What do you mean, when it matters? It always matters but really you win the title in the last 10 games, not the first 10.
What we can't do is let anyone get too far ahead of us like we did last year. 5 points at this stage is nothing.
If we'd lost the first 4 games I'd be worried, so long as we're pubbing results and staying in touch that's fine for now.
Obviously I'd be happier if we'd won all 4 games convincingly but that wouldn't make us champions elect any more than our results and performances so far make us alsorans.

You weren't saying that last season because we had a good run towards the end of the season but the title was out of sight by then. Moving goal posts as usual.

Again, I don't care what Chelsea are doing. They're title winners and it's not like they've gone a decade without winning the Prem.

[Letters]

I wasn't saying the opposite last season either so how have I moved the goalposts? We were never in the title race so while the run was very good we needed Chelsea to slip up massively to get us back in the race and they never did.

Not caring what Chelsea are doing is ridiculous. They and City are the 2 sides who finished above us last year so they are the teams we have to finish above this year.

You are the one moving the goalposts even within the same posts. We have no chance because of our stuttering start. Chelsea do have a chance though despite being below us.

As I said above, your argument is basically we can't win it because of Wenger so stop pretending our results have any bearing on it.

[Injury Time]

I wasn't saying the opposite last season either so how have I moved the goalposts? We were never in the title race so while the run was very good we needed Chelsea to slip up massively to get us back in the race and they never did.

Not caring what Chelsea are doing is ridiculous. They and City are the 2 sides who finished above us last year so they are the teams we have to finish above this year.

You are the one moving the goalposts even within the same posts. We have no chance because of our stuttering start. Chelsea do have a chance though despite being below us.

As I said above, your argument is basically we can't win it because of Wenger so stop pretending our results have any bearing on it.
I think we need to beat ALL the teams on points to win the title, so long ago I might have got that wrong. :unsure:

[Niall_Quinn]

It's not unreasonable to think that Wenger can't win us the league but stop trying to dress the argument up as "we can't win it because or our bad performances so far" or because we haven't won every game like City have, that argument doesn't wash because if we're out of it already then so are Utd and Chelsea. If we stay in the hunt and are there or thereabouts with 10 games left then we have a chance IMO. The performances have been poor so far but we know they're capable of much better, right now it's all about results.

You are doing the dressing up mate. Nobody said that so you've helpfully put the words in their mouths. Just about everyone has explained the chav thing to you, but you can't or won't hear it. Your opening salvo about people complaining is another example of the way you shift your arguments to suit the moment, as noted above by PnG. If the results are no good then the performances show progress, if the performances stink then the results are what count. But the elephant you can't shove out of the room is the last decade where our performance levels have dropped and the "great" football we play has become nothing but a media myth, and the results have amounted to a pair of cup wins late in the day. Not that cup wins are insignificant, but what has it taken to obtain them? Measure the input against the output and any fool can see that Wenger has tragically underperformed. Not because he hasn't won a title, not because he hasn't won the CL, but because he hasn't come close. The excuses for this guy are all washed away. You want to talk about the performance level? Well he doesn't deliver performances, he delivers tippy, tappy, slow, congested bullshit. You want to talk about results? Well he doesn't deliver any in the big competitions. What else do you want to measure him by? Financial returns? Share price? The 4th place trophy? Fine, he's done well in that respect, and there's the issue. He;s done superbly well for the board, but what has he done for us lately? Like in the last 10 years? Ruined our football, sucked the entertainment out of our play and left us a laughing stock when the chips have been down. This is the truth - look at the record. He's been living on past glories for way too long, cemented in place by a board that loves the cash he generates and the fans that live in the hope of next season, next season, next season finally being the one. Ain't happening. How do we know? Well did you see the first 4 games this season? That's how we know.

[Letters]

I think we need to beat ALL the teams on points to win the title, so long ago I might have got that wrong. :unsure:

:lol: We do, but beating most of the other teams is a given. Utd are the only other credible contenders IMO after their splurge in the summer and they're looking awlful right now too.

[Power n Glory]

I wasn't saying the opposite last season either so how have I moved the goalposts? We were never in the title race so while the run was very good we needed Chelsea to slip up massively to get us back in the race and they never did.

Not caring what Chelsea are doing is ridiculous. They and City are the 2 sides who finished above us last year so they are the teams we have to finish above this year.

You are the one moving the goalposts even within the same posts. We have no chance because of our stuttering start. Chelsea do have a chance though despite being below us.

As I said above, your argument is basically we can't win it because of Wenger so stop pretending our results have any bearing on it.

Uhhhh....so the title isn't decided in the last 10 games, right?

No, Letters. Winning the league means you have to be above everyone not just Chelsea and City. :doh: I'm not going to take solace in the fact that we're above Chelsea when they currently reside in 13th place. Their bad start doesn't excuse our bad start. We set out to do things differently this season.

Please show me where I say we have 'no chance of winning the league'? If you read my posts you'd see I said we need to sharpen up quickly. We need to find our best starting 11, approach games with some sort of tactical nous, keep our players fit and avoid all the crap that's stopped us from winning it over the past decade. So far we don't look like title contenders when the aim was to come out the blocks flying and showing our intent. Don't start making up an argument and read. The performances so far haven't been good enough and we need to find our form and momentum early.

[Letters]

How do we know? Well did you see the first 4 games this season? That's how we know.
No. No it isn't :lol: And you know it isn't. You accuse me of changing my argument (which isn't true, and I think you know that) but I at least believe my argument, I don't think you believe yours for a minute.

Our results so far don't show anything. And four convincing wins wouldn't show anything either. If it did then City are champions, Chelsea have no chance, let's all give up and go home and try again next year. You've been watching football long enough to know that over a long season things change as clubs have purple patches or poor runs.
We lost it last year in the first 12 games, we got it together after that but it was too late. This year we've got off to an indifferent start but so have the rest of the potential contenders, bar City. If we end up after 12 games 15 points behind as we did last year then yes, it's all over, Wenger Out, etc, etc. But it's 4 games in and we're in touch so stop all the hysteria.

[Power n Glory]

You are doing the dressing up mate. Nobody said that so you've helpfully put the words in their mouths. Just about everyone has explained the chav thing to you, but you can't or won't hear it. Your opening salvo about people complaining is another example of the way you shift your arguments to suit the moment, as noted above by PnG. If the results are no good then the performances show progress, if the performances stink then the results are what count. But the elephant you can't shove out of the room is the last decade where our performance levels have dropped and the "great" football we play has become nothing but a media myth, and the results have amounted to a pair of cup wins late in the day. Not that cup wins are insignificant, but what has it taken to obtain them? Measure the input against the output and any fool can see that Wenger has tragically underperformed. Not because he hasn't won a title, not because he hasn't won the CL, but because he hasn't come close. The excuses for this guy are all washed away. You want to talk about the performance level? Well he doesn't deliver performances, he delivers tippy, tappy, slow, congested bullshit. You want to talk about results? Well he doesn't deliver any in the big competitions. What else do you want to measure him by? Financial returns? Share price? The 4th place trophy? Fine, he's done well in that respect, and there's the issue. He;s done superbly well for the board, but what has he done for us lately? Like in the last 10 years? Ruined our football, sucked the entertainment out of our play and left us a laughing stock when the chips have been down. This is the truth - look at the record. He's been living on past glories for way too long, cemented in place by a board that loves the cash he generates and the fans that live in the hope of next season, next season, next season finally being the one. Ain't happening. How do we know? Well did you see the first 4 games this season? That's how we know.

Exactly.

[Letters]

Uhhhh....so the title isn't decided in the last 10 games, right?
It is, but you have to be in the race. Last year we weren't. I've said over and over you can't win the title in the first 10 games but you can lose it.
Last year, we did. This year, I don't know yet but after 4 games we're doing OK, results wise.


No, Letters. Winning the league means you have to be above everyone not just Chelsea and City.
Wow. You could be a pundit with that kind of insight.
Yes, obviously. But are you worried about Leicester being above us? Will they be there come May?
City and Chelsea are the sides who finished above us last year, they're the teams we should be most concerned about.


Please show me where I say we have 'no chance of winning the league'? If you read my posts you'd see I said we need to sharpen up quickly.
OK, if that's your position then I agree. But meanwhile we need to pub results and stay in touch.

[Özim]

Why are Chelsea contenders if we aren't? They're below us.
What do you mean, when it matters? It always matters but really you win the title in the last 10 games, not the first 10.
What we can't do is let anyone get too far ahead of us like we did last year. 5 points at this stage is nothing.
If we'd lost the first 4 games I'd be worried, so long as we're pubbing results and staying in touch that's fine for now.
Obviously I'd be happier if we'd won all 4 games convincingly but that wouldn't make us champions elect any more than our results and performances so far make us alsorans.

Your whole argument about whether we could challenge before the season started was based around the fact we matched them stride for stride last season (Chelsea) and just started badly, now we've done it again you're making excuses as to it not being that important and that's it's only once you get to 10 games that you'll find out whether we can challenge, that sounds like moving the goalposts to me.

We've shown time and time again we can't maintain a run for the entire season and that when it really matters we collapse, yes we can go on a run when we're 6th and in with no chance of the title but there's no expectations then.

We've started poorly and to me as I suspected are nowehere near good enough to be title contenders and Wenger once again has failed in the summer transfer window so far, with Wenger in charge we're always waiting for things to change when in reality they never do.

[Letters]

now we've done it again.
We haven't done it again.
It's 4 games in and only City have started significantly better. We need to stay in touch, clearly, but unless we fall too far behind it's nothing like last season.

that sounds like moving the goalposts to me
Well no, I've been talking about losing it in the first 10 games. This year it's only 4 games in so we're not comparing like for like.
If, after 10 games, we're miles behind the team at the top then yes, it's like last season. 4 games in and performances have been poor, results have been OKish.

[Özim]

No. No it isn't :lol: And you know it isn't. You accuse me of changing my argument (which isn't true, and I think you know that) but I at least believe my argument, I don't think you believe yours for a minute.

Our results so far don't show anything. And four convincing wins wouldn't show anything either. If it did then City are champions, Chelsea have no chance, let's all give up and go home and try again next year. You've been watching football long enough to know that over a long season things change as clubs have purple patches or poor runs.
We lost it last year in the first 12 games, we got it together after that but it was too late. This year we've got off to an indifferent start but so have the rest of the potential contenders, bar City. If we end up after 12 games 15 points behind as we did last year then yes, it's all over, Wenger Out, etc, etc. But it's 4 games in and we're in touch so stop all the hysteria.

I don't understand why you can't distinguish between Chelsea and us, Chelsea have a manager who's won trophy after trophy, including Champions Leagues, domestic titles, Chelsea have won a host of major trophies in the last 10 years, Chelsea have shown that when it matters they can put a run together and win titles, they're proven competitors in every respect........we on the other hand have proved in every single case in the last 10 years that when it comes to major trophies neither the manager nor the personnel have what it takes to deliver and go on runs when the major trophies are up for grabs. Chelsea's start is awful but you know because they've proven it, that they are capable of delivering championship winning form, what we know about us is that we either start badly or finish badly and put the odd winning run in in between (not necessarily with convincing performances) but that when the pressure to win major titles is there we can't produce.

You might believe things could be different if we'd gone into the transfer market this summer with intent and signed our targets without any fuss and made clear efforts to improve the squad, but we haven't, we've signed a good keeper but that's not significant improvement on last season, we all know what we need and we all know we haven't got what we need, because for some reason the manager cannot bring himself to buy players all summer and instead seems to spend the last day of the transfer window trying to pull off transfers at a time when realistically there's the least possible available, as clubs then can't find replacements. What's more it appears that this summer there's even less available than usual.

[Power n Glory]

Wow. You could be a pundit with that kind of insight.
Yes, obviously. But are you worried about Leicester being above us? Will they be there come May?
City and Chelsea are the sides who finished above us last year, they're the teams we should be most concerned about.
.

Obvious to most but you're a bit special. ;)

You still can't rule out Man Utd and it goes back to what I said about excusing our bad results because our rivals are in bad shape. We should be taking advantage of these moments.

[Letters]

what we know about us is that we either start badly or finish badly.
:)

So if we'd won the first 4 games convincingly you'd just be saying we'll collapse at the end anyway. :shrug:

Like I've been saying, stop pretending your thoughts about our title chances are anything to do with our results, they're about our manager and your opinion of him. And actually, that's a fairly valid opinion. Thinking we've blown it after 4 games isn't.

[Letters]

Obvious to most but you're a bit special. ;)
I'll take that as a compliment :cool:

I wouldn't rule Utd out either, I thought before the season that any of the top 4 are credible contenders, I guess I still think that. Us, Chelsea and Utd have got off to wobbly starts at best, only City have come out of the blocks flying but it's early days yet and they tend to hit bad patches here and there.

We do need to pick up quickly, so long as we can keep pubbing the results and staying in touch though I'm not throwing in the towel just yet.

[Niall_Quinn]

No. No it isn't :lol: And you know it isn't. You accuse me of changing my argument (which isn't true, and I think you know that) but I at least believe my argument, I don't think you believe yours for a minute.

Our results so far don't show anything. And four convincing wins wouldn't show anything either. If it did then City are champions, Chelsea have no chance, let's all give up and go home and try again next year. You've been watching football long enough to know that over a long season things change as clubs have purple patches or poor runs.
We lost it last year in the first 12 games, we got it together after that but it was too late. This year we've got off to an indifferent start but so have the rest of the potential contenders, bar City. If we end up after 12 games 15 points behind as we did last year then yes, it's all over, Wenger Out, etc, etc. But it's 4 games in and we're in touch so stop all the hysteria.

Classic.

Don't like what somebody is saying? There's an easy remedy.

Tell them what they know. Tell them what they think. Tell them what they believe.

Now that all the pieces are in place, tell them they are wrong.

:haha:

[Özim]

:)

So if we'd won the first 4 games convincingly you'd just be saying we'll collapse at the end anyway. :shrug:

Like I've been saying, stop pretending your thoughts about our title chances are anything to do with our results, they're about our manager and your opinion of him. And actually, that's a fairly valid opinion. Thinking we've blown it after 4 games isn't.

Noone believes (almost noone) we can win the title because of what we've seen in the last 10 years, the problem is that the manager just doesn't do what's necessary in any sense to win big trophies, he doesn't spend wisely in the transfer market (in terms of signings players we need), he doesn't pick his teams well (based on form players and our opposition) and tactically he's been found wanting, his substitutions also seem to largely be way off the mark, the conbination of factors undermines any chance we have of winning the PL or CL, at least if he went out and spent the money available to him you might have some hope these new players could offer something different and give us a chance, he never does however, he's handicapping us at this point.

The only way I'd have believed we had a chance would have been if we'd signed a top striker and a DM on top of everything else this summer, without those I was never going to give us a hope, the fact is as well as tactical changes we need personnel changes and without both we won't win the PL. We've seen managers come in at clubs and change the tactics and improve their fortunes, but ultimately it's not until they've signed half a dozen players that the dream of titles becomes reality.

In addition Wenger simply can't motivate and drive his team, he needs generals on the pitch and in my eyes he never signs players like this nowadays, thus when the chips are down we tend to collapse.

[Power n Glory]

I'll take that as a compliment :cool:

I wouldn't rule Utd out either, I thought before the season that any of the top 4 are credible contenders, I guess I still think that. Us, Chelsea and Utd have got off to wobbly starts at best, only City have come out of the blocks flying but it's early days yet and they tend to hit bad patches here and there.

We do need to pick up quickly, so long as we can keep pubbing the results and staying in touch though I'm not throwing in the towel just yet.

But after wobbly starts, who is more likely to correct the mistakes? Are the mistakes we're seeing from Chelsea usual? No.

Taking the attention away from our rivals, are the problems we're having the sort we've had before? Yes. People are annoyed because we should have carried the momentum from two FA cups and last seasons run into the league, playing with more confidence and conviction. You'd have to watch the games and see how we're playing to understand.

[Niall_Quinn]

But after wobbly starts, who is more likely to correct the mistakes? Are the mistakes we're seeing from Chelsea usual? No.

Taking the attention away from our rivals, are the problems we're having the sort we've had before? Yes. People are annoyed because we should have carried the momentum from two FA cups and last seasons run into the league, playing with more confidence and conviction. You'd have to watch the games and see how we're playing to understand.

Our manager doesn't even see the mistakes or the areas that need improvement, so for him there's nothing to correct. Just persist, persist, persist and when everything averages out it'll be good enough to finish 4th. And he hates momentum, loathes it. Whenever we generate any he immediately drains the tank.

But you know, next season it might be different.

[Power n Glory]

Our manager doesn't even see the mistakes or the areas that need improvement, so for him there's nothing to correct. Just persist, persist, persist and when everything averages out it'll be good enough to finish 4th. And he hates momentum, loathes it. Whenever we generate any he immediately drains the tank.

But you know, next season it might be different.

That's the most frustrating thing. Another transfer window may pass without a top class striker.

[Letters]

Noone believes (almost noone) we can win the title because of what we've seen in the last 10 years
Which is a fairly reasonable position although, as always, you exaggerate his failings.
But the first 4 results and performances don't tell us anything new. I'm disappointed by the way we've started but I don't think it tells us much about our chances this year. If we're still in the mix with 10 games to go I trust this lot more than I would have a few years ago, after the Birmingham debacle I never thought we'd win a trophy under Wenger again but the last two years show they can finish the job in competitions. We've not competed for the biggest prizes yet but I think we're good enough to. We all agree we'd have a better chance with a top class striker though, that is a disappointment this summer.

[Niall_Quinn]

For me it's disappointing we haven't signed the striker we need, again, but even though Giroud and Walcott are missing nine chances out of ten, as they usually do, I think this year they may become prolific.

It was also a slight concern to see us pass up on Vidal, the midfielder we've needed for 10 years. Still, if Coquelin can become one of the best in the world by next week then we don't really need anyone else, not even for cover. Bit concerned about playing a 5 foot midget in the central midfield role, especially as he doesn't really play the role at all and pretty much leaves it to Coquelin. Still, if Coquelin can play 60 games this season without tiring, getting injured or suspended we should be fine.

So far there's good signs of progress. We're above the chavs and nothing I have seen in the past makes me think we'll let the lead slip. We haven't started quite as well as the gypos but they have spent a fortune so in reality we're right up there with them and they will drop points. With Giroud and Walcott banging in the goals and Coquelin emerging as the best and most resilient midfielder in the world I think we can go toe to toe with the gypos and pip them to then line, in the same way we raced them all the way to the finish last season. Yes, they narrowly annihilated us, but there are definite signs we'll finish higher than them because we won the FA Cup.

It would be nice if we signed the players we need with some of that fortune sitting in the bank, nice if we could modify our tactics from time to time, maybe rotate the squad a bit to prevent burn-out and repetitive injuries, pleasing if we could play players in the correct positions. But too much emphasis is placed on these things, everyone is always exaggerating about Wenger playing Ramsey out of position or using a midget in midfield or buying players like Sanogo. In reality he's doing an excellent job and even though we might not win the title this season, because of the chavs and the gypos spending too much money, there are definite signs we'll win it next season. Or the one after that. I'll keep those signs to myself for now, but they are definitely there.

[Niall_Quinn]

That's the most frustrating thing. Another transfer window may pass without a top class striker.

We'll know within 24 hours. In that time we have to go from not a sniff to landing a top, top, top, top, top, top, top, top quality striker. Seems likely.

I hope the clamour mounts for his sacking come Wendnesday if he doesn't pull off a miracle in the next few hours. The reason it needs to be a miracle is all down to him again. Was a long summer. Wasted. Again.