Match Reaction vs Bayern Munich (home).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

:bow:

[Kano]

Need to have another look at the replay of that first goal.

And laugh.

I knew with our best team out tonight we might just do it.

[Dicks and chicks]

Need to resign Senderos tbh.

[Maestro]

cech and bellerin .....you were fucking monsters today, thank you

great fucking win, the look on pep, lewandowski and neur's collective mugs priceless

[Hump]

Wenger out

[LDG]

:dance:

[fakeyank]

Europa league, here we come! :bow:

:ilt:

[Maestro]

Wenger out

without question :)

[Niall_Quinn]

Well credit to Wenger. That's how you beat them. Apart from an early problem with the centre backs we kept an on-form Bayern out and grabbed the better chances. Thought we were going to get murdered in the early stages but Cech, Monreal, the two centre backs and for the most part Bellerin were up to the defensive task.

Had to deal with an off form Theo and a knackered Alexis too.

Bif changed the game when he came on. For a guy who has a habit of being a statue he was all over the place.

Bellerin doing a Bolt in the 94th minute of a tough match :bow: Ferrari engine.

[Kano]

Not a handball for that first.

[GP]

Enjoyed that

[Marc Overmars]

Didn't see it but what a result!!

Not out of the woods yet, even harder task to come in a fortnight, but for now...

Arsenal. :bow: :dance:

Well done boys.

[adzzzbatch]

I would like to add:

Cech! :bow: :bow: :bow:

[Edinburgh Gooner]

Well credit to Wenger. That's how you beat them. Apart from an early problem with the centre backs we kept an on-form Bayern out and grabbed the better chances. Thought we were going to get murdered in the early stages but Cech, Monreal, the two centre backs and for the most part Bellerin were up to the defensive task.

Had to deal with an off form Theo and a knackered Alexis too.

Bif changed the game when he came on. For a guy who has a habit of being a statue he was all over the place.

Bellerin doing a Bolt in the 94th minute of a tough match :bow: Ferrari engine.

I said to myself after 65 to take Walcott off for giroud, we were getting pushed back and had no long ball option. Walcott's headers on goal were too tame, and we have seen girouds one touch finishing this season that I thought he'd fare better with those balls. The whole team deserves credit, but cech, kos and ozil for me deserve the highest praise.

[GP]

Both of our fullbacks are absolutely superb.

[Power n Glory]

Very enjoyable game. And you jellyback GW chumps had us written off from kick off. :haha:

Fantastic effort from the team. Had them rattled with our counter attacks. Restricted their chances with some very solid defending and the pubbed in two goals. Fantastic. Wenger got his tactics right, the players came out with the right attitude and I really enjoyed that game. Very exciting. That Douglas Costa guy was a bargain. Beast of a player.

[Maestro]

Both of our fullbacks are absolutely superb.

this

great to see, they've both been consistently very good for over a year now

[Globalgunner]

Again serendipity comes to our rescue. Ramsey injured, maybe Wenger will put Walcott back on the right or keep the Ox there.

The groupis messed up now that Olympiakos have wom at zagreb. If we cant beat Bayern at home we are essentially fked. As no matter what we do we arent likely to overhaul the Greeks. I would rather come last than 3rd. At least we have some dignity back

[AFC Leveller]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11292_10205028330132134_8089556801655019058_n.jpg? oh=e609aea9238f7584fd4b3ccce6a46e6a&oe=568B9A4A&__gda__=1451640715_f75a82a3a6b7c01c94b907d08cb6496 8

[fakeyank]

I dont know who I had this conversation with, but whoever you are, do you still think this Arsenal squad is way behind Man City?

[Power n Glory]

this

great to see, they've both been consistently very good for over a year now

Monreal has worked hard to earn that respect from the fans. Was once written off harshly but was never as bad as people made out. Wasn't bad at all. Credit to him for really holding down a spot.

[selassie]

Didn't see it coming, we dig deep tonight and put in a big performance. I'm looking forward to going over there because me thinks we will cause them lots of problems on the counter.

[Globalgunner]

I dont know who I had this conversation with, but whoever you are, do you still think this Arsenal squad is way behind Man City?

Just compare our relative front lines. If Aguero is fit. No contest. As it is what keeps us competitive in the league is that City can be vulberable against the stokes and W-Hams just like us

On another note. those extra linesmen. I used to think they were a waste. No more:respect:

[Kano]

Monreal has worked hard to earn that respect from the fans. Was once written off harshly but was never as bad as people made out. Wasn't bad at all. Credit to him for really holding down a spot.

He has worked hard to gain that respect, treated as a clown during his first season, although he didn't help himself at times. One of the first names down every week now, one of our most consistent performers.

[Marc Overmars]

Wish I had put money on a win tonight.

Never underestimate WUMgers ability to troll us even with positive results.

[Power n Glory]

He has worked hard to gain that respect, treated as a clown during his first season, although he didn't help himself at times. One of the first names down every week now, one of our most consistent performers.

He's adjusted well but I'll always prefer him over Gibbs. Not as attack minded but his end product is better and he's very reliable when it comes to defending. Very consistent.

[Master Splinter]

Arsenal :bow:.

Wenfer :bow:.

Bif :bow:.

Bellerin :bow:.

Cech :bow:.

Monreal :bow:.

Koscielny :bow:.

Coquelin :bow:.

Neuer :bow:.

[Power n Glory]

I'm not surprised by the outcome. We've beaten them before when the odds were stacked against us and we've beaten Pep before under similar circumstances when we've been written off. We usually play well and surprise teams under such circumstances. The next CL game is a bigger test. Can we do it again? If we play like that again we can. We brought the game to them. Very unlucky not to score in the first half but a late goal is so much sweeter.

[Kano]

After all the criticism he's received, but I think it's fair to say:

Wenger :bow:

[Power n Glory]

Francis Coquelin is my hero! :lol: That guy is so underrated. Was so impressed by how calm he was on the ball under pressure.

[Power n Glory]

After all the criticism he's received, but I think it's fair to say:

Wenger :bow:

Yep. Wenger - :bow:

Tactically, he got that spot on. Commentator was saying we needed to press them, push up further and not let them have so much space. Nope! We had it under control and Wenger got our defensive set up right. Lewandowski was kept quiet.

[Marc Overmars]

Bit annoying the other match wasn't a draw. Still going to take a huge effort to get out of this group.

Even a draw in the Allianz will probably be a bad result in the context of the group if Olympiakos beat Zagreb again.

[Master Splinter]

Ramsey, Wilshere and Rosicky all dead at the same time.

We can get away with Cazorla and Ozil in midfield for a while but it could catch up with us if none of them return soon.

Ox needs to step up now and prove his worth.

Starting Bif, Feo and Alexis is some games might be effective too.

[Kano]

Giroud also deserves his praise. Lost his place but has more on the board than Theo now.

But like Theo against Utd, he has to realise giving his all like this can't just be reserved for the big games.

[Kano]

Ramsey, Wilshere and Rosicky all dead at the same time.

We can get away with Cazorla and Ozil in midfield for a while but it could catch up with us if none of them return soon.

Ox needs to step up now and prove his worth.

Starting Bif, Feo and Alexis is some games might be effective too.

Cech said during the last international break that Rosicky was still coming back from injury, on his own specialised training regime. We won't see him until Jan/Feb I reckon.

Jack is dead, I think we all know that. Ramsey? Could be anything from two weeks to two years.

Need Flamini back tbf.

[Marc Overmars]

Giroud also deserves his praise. Lost his place but has more on the board than Theo now.

But like Theo against Utd, he has to realise giving his all like this can't just be reserved for the big games.

Hopefully the added competition is doing them both a world of good. Strikers are selfish and thrive off outdoing each other.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Great to see us win by 2 goals despite the Munich possession which was pretty predictable. I thought we had the better chances throughout the game and although they weren't as good as they have been, Theo and Sanchez really have some incredible mojo between them. Really intriguing to see it unfold at times.

Giroud may not be quick but he too benefits from coming on against tiring defences and he held the ball up beautifully today.

Great to see Ozil stick it to his German Brethren too.

Up the Arse!

[Munchies]

Buzzing!!

What a win!!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The dreaded player ratings

Cech - 9 - overestimated by the commentary team how much he actually had to do, but what he had to do he did well....very, very well
Bellerin - 8 - struggled to deal with Douglas Costa at times but most players would single handedly....but wow did he shine tonight otherwise
Mertesacker - 8 went about his work very low key winning the ball back vitally at times, lack of pace didn't appear to be a problem.
Koscielny - 8 Match winning interceptions, one of the best centre backs on the European stage at this moment in time
Monreal - 8 Saw to it that Mullers impact was negligible
Coquelin - 7 Did what we needed of him got in the faces of Bayern players but ocassionally bamboozled by Bayerns pass and movement game.
Cazorla - 7 Good ball distribution and solid if unspectacular
Ramsey - 6 Largely ineffective with disappointing end to the night for him
Ozil - 7 Some good passes at time and did well to ghost in to finish off Bellerins beautiful surging run, anonymous at other times.
Sanchez - 7 Mixed night for Chilean, caused Bayern no end of problems with directness and pace but could be ponderous and sloppy in possession.
Walcott - 7 Like Sanchez made hard work for Bayern with his pace, but lacking cutting edge should have scored at least once

Subs

Oxlade Chamberlain 6 - Had no more impact on the game than the man he replaced


Giroud 8 - Didn't know much about the goal, but right time and right place tends to help, held up the ball brilliantly, rolled up his sleeves to help both ends of the pitch. Arguably should have done better with free header.

Gibbs - 7 - Solid defensive option when holding onto lead, won the ball back well to give up respite when Bayern building up head of steam.

[Letters]

Seen some extended highlights now although I didn't get the sense from those how the game flowed - I read we only had 30% of the possession, that didn't come across from the bits I saw.

Fantastic result, typical Arsenal to balls up the 'easy' games and then get a result last night.

Cech :bow: and, while we're here, Neuer :bow:. The save from Walcott was crazy and although it was all for naught the 'save' from Ozil at the end was pretty incredible too.

:patrice:

[Marc Overmars]

Neuer is mental.

So happy to have to have a great keeper of our own though. Cech has been exceptional minus the West Ham disaster.

Cheers Roman.

[JSAO]

Although BT have lost me the ability to watch these game live, listening to the game and the end result was great......hats off to the boys for never giving up and always believing! Wumger lives on.....a cat has fewer lives than he does (lol at my own joke)

[LDG]

Still :patrice:

[Letters]

It shows that on our day we can go toe to toe with anyone. :dance:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It shows that on our day we can go toe to toe with anyone. :dance:

The sad thing is even before last night, apart from in the minds of hardened Wenger out people I think we all know we are capable of matching anyone on our day.....and that Wenger is tactically capable of matching many of those around him (still hasn't quite mastered the midget sociopath)
The sad thing being is that we don't see it consistently enough, how many times have we seen turning points only to bafflingly revert to type....so frustrating we have a coach who clearly is far from being stupid or inept and yet he seems to at times will fully make amateurish errors.

Last night proved for me that our failings are down to Wengers stubbornness not incompetence

[Heisenberg]

Said we didn't have a sniff, feels so good to be wrong on that score!

Bellerin's assist :bow:

[LDG]

Fuck, we really must challenge for the title this year (CL is beyond us I think).

We are capable, and we have a great squad. It's all about the mentality, preparation and hard work. That, and strengthening key areas when we need to.

If Wenger can keep us in touch by Christmas, he MUST strengthen. If he does, we can win the league. I really hope this isn't all another false dawn.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Tactically last night, Wenger was spot on. Listening to BT, they went on and on about us not closing down Alonso and letting him have the ball, while completely ignoring the fact we blocked off all his options. It was an intentional tactic and the players performed brilliantly. They stayed compact and closed off the space. Of course, a team as good as Bayern will always create chances, but most were long shots from tight angles. Cech made some brilliant saves, but most of those saves were ones you expect a keeper of his quality to make. Koscienly and Mertesacker were oustanding, Monreal is one of our best players this season. Almost every match he is giving an 8/10 performance. Bellerin started slowly, Costa was a menace but the way he came back into the game, shows just how good he is and will be. The pace he showed yesterday towards teh end of the game, not just for Ozil's goal but earlier on when he chased a lost cause and won us a corner. It just kept the pressure on Bayern and kept our fans going.
it was the right decision to start Theo upfront as his runs kept Bayern further back and he caused some problems. Should have done better with some of his chances, but the save from Neuer was outstanding. His pace gave us the chance to counter effectively whereas starting with Giroud would have allowed Bayern to settle but his impact as a sub was much better. Bayern just didnt know what to do with him and some of his hold up play last night was superb, if only he can play at that intensity everytime.

Thats not the first time this year either we have won a game having less possession, (i think its the 7th), it shows that Wenger is making tactical decisions to play the game that way. City and United away, Liverpool at home and now Bayern at home, we all had less posession yet these games have produced our biggest wins. Its not luck, its brilliant management. Wenger has his faults of course, but arguing he doenst do tactics is just wrong. Last night showed he does, and it was one of the best arsenal performances i have seen.

Up the Arsenal

[Niall_Quinn]

Nice to be able to read the papers this morning rather than avoiding them at all costs.

It was an odd game. We played in the most un-Arsenal like way and as it turns out that was the precise method to diffuse an on-form Bayern. Essentially we turned them into us, they were tippy tappy (albeit stunningly good at it) without doing real damage in the final third.

I don't think we were on top form ourselves. Sloppy passing. Lacked confidence until the game wore on. Not so hot in the final third either. And a rare occasion where Alexis succumbed to fatigue, not surprising really considering how much we rely on him.

What really stood out was the pre-game planning, the tactics and the discipline of the players in conducting those tactics. Very un-Arsenal. Very un-Wenger. But credit has to go to the manager. He figured out what was required, laid the deception beforehand with his "all out attack" message, and then set us up to counter, but not only that we were set up to carefully balance energy over the 90 minutes. That showed at the end when we stormed past a tiring Bayern defence. Bellerin was playing like it was still the first minute. And Ozil was sprinting into the box.

I'm betting Bayern arrived assuming they knew how we'd play, that we'd be guilty of being as predictable as so many opposition managers, notably our last two CL opponents, claimed. It was very encouraging to see Wenger shake things up and catch Pep wrong footed.

Cech showed why he must start every game in every competition. He exudes confidence and experience at the back. He has winner written all over, the best keeper in the PL and the best signing of the summer. And a chav legend pinched from Maureen despite his protests - transfers really don't come better than that.

Then there's Coquelin. Surely the most improved player in Europe? He's a captain in the making (a proper one, not an afterthought like our recent captain's role). He spotted the problems early on yesterday and he made the adjustments himself. At least it very much looked that way. Maybe he got a call from the sidelines, but anyway he was instrumental in shutting down Bayern's game in the final third when initially it looked like they were going to slice us to ribbons.

We desperately needed this result for so many reasons. These are the occasions why players like Cech, Ozil and Alexis have come to the club.

That's TWICE now. The demolition of Utd with an effective game plan and now the diffusing of Bayern. This is the standard we need to keep up.

Now we need to do it all over in the return leg. Bayern will be well up for that, it'll be the biggest test we have faced in a long time. Pass that test and we are in business.

Hopefully the injuries aren't going to sweep in and take this momentum away.

[Power n Glory]

The sad thing is even before last night, apart from in the minds of hardened Wenger out people I think we all know we are capable of matching anyone on our day.....and that Wenger is tactically capable of matching many of those around him (still hasn't quite mastered the midget sociopath)
The sad thing being is that we don't see it consistently enough, how many times have we seen turning points only to bafflingly revert to type....so frustrating we have a coach who clearly is far from being stupid or inept and yet he seems to at times will fully make amateurish errors.

Last night proved for me that our failings are down to Wengers stubbornness not incompetence

I was about to say something similar about matching the best teams. It’s why I’m done stating such games are the ‘defining moment’. We’ve had this conversation on GW before. We beat Bayern on their own ground when they were at their best and won the CL. Weren’t we the only team to beat them there that year? Didn’t we go on to have some strong run on the league after that victory? We’ve always known we can beat the best teams. We’ve beaten them all. Barca, AC Milan, Dortmund…when we’ve been written off and things look hopeless we show up with a solid performance. We just need consistency.

[Marc Overmars]

Fuck, we really must challenge for the title this year (CL is beyond us I think).

We are capable, and we have a great squad. It's all about the mentality, preparation and hard work. That, and strengthening key areas when we need to.

If Wenger can keep us in touch by Christmas, he MUST strengthen. If he does, we can win the league. I really hope this isn't all another false dawn.

Challenging for the league is the minimum expectation we all cited this summer. Now is our time, no excuses.

[IBK]

I'm not surprised by the outcome. We've beaten them before when the odds were stacked against us and we've beaten Pep before under similar circumstances when we've been written off. We usually play well and surprise teams under such circumstances. The next CL game is a bigger test. Can we do it again? If we play like that again we can. We brought the game to them. Very unlucky not to score in the first half but a late goal is so much sweeter.

Agree with this, but first, some propers...

I've criticised Wenger plenty for his set up and tactics but he got them spot on last night - not only on the night, but also for his decision not to try to 'rest' his best players last Saturday. He showed that he can do the business tactically when the choice is simple and his team have to do what is necessary to get the win. Do we also have to be grateful that Ospina wrote himself off for the CL after the Olympiacos game?

Whisper it quietly, but our defence is looking like the real deal, having been a bit of a laughing stock at times over the past couple of seasons. Not just last night - but our stats/clean sheets in this regard suggests that we are finally getting some proper balance and organisation in this area. Any team will make defensive errors, but its our consistency in the back third that is giving me some hope going forwards. Our full backs are arguably the best in the league ATM, and Cech is clearly instilling confidence. Let's hope that this shut out of a monster Bayern team increases this self-belief.

Ozil is stepping up to the plate - and recently has begun to justify his promise/price tag. He looks a lot more like he wants to be in this team.

The team is exuding togetherness and common purpose ATM - and the manager deserves credit for this also.

BUT let's remember that we beat Bayern the season before last and drew with them last season (albeit losing the other fixtures against them). For a while now, this team has the odd exceptional result in it, and while we are looking better in the 'big games' so far this season, the jury is understandably still out as to whether we are capable of stepping up on a more consistent basis. We basically have to beat Bayern again, as well as the return legs against Olympiacos and Zagreb, and I have concerns as to whether we will prevail against teams that are much more cautious ans defence minded than Manure and Bayern. Maybe the mental attitude will be there in all 3 remaining CL fixtures now that its do or die. If it is, then I will dare to dream again.

[Letters]

The sad thing is even before last night, apart from in the minds of hardened Wenger out people I think we all know we are capable of matching anyone on our day.....and that Wenger is tactically capable of matching many of those around him (still hasn't quite mastered the midget sociopath)
The sad thing being is that we don't see it consistently enough, how many times have we seen turning points only to bafflingly revert to type....so frustrating we have a coach who clearly is far from being stupid or inept and yet he seems to at times will fully make amateurish errors.

Last night proved for me that our failings are down to Wengers stubbornness not incompetence

Kinda impressed that you managed to have a dig at Wenger after last night's result. :lol:
Zimtastic.

[Power n Glory]

Tactically last night, Wenger was spot on. Listening to BT, they went on and on about us not closing down Alonso and letting him have the ball, while completely ignoring the fact we blocked off all his options. It was an intentional tactic and the players performed brilliantly. They stayed compact and closed off the space. Of course, a team as good as Bayern will always create chances, but most were long shots from tight angles. Cech made some brilliant saves, but most of those saves were ones you expect a keeper of his quality to make. Koscienly and Mertesacker were oustanding, Monreal is one of our best players this season. Almost every match he is giving an 8/10 performance. Bellerin started slowly, Costa was a menace but the way he came back into the game, shows just how good he is and will be. The pace he showed yesterday towards teh end of the game, not just for Ozil's goal but earlier on when he chased a lost cause and won us a corner. It just kept the pressure on Bayern and kept our fans going.
it was the right decision to start Theo upfront as his runs kept Bayern further back and he caused some problems. Should have done better with some of his chances, but the save from Neuer was outstanding. His pace gave us the chance to counter effectively whereas starting with Giroud would have allowed Bayern to settle but his impact as a sub was much better. Bayern just didnt know what to do with him and some of his hold up play last night was superb, if only he can play at that intensity everytime.

Thats not the first time this year either we have won a game having less possession, (i think its the 7th), it shows that Wenger is making tactical decisions to play the game that way. City and United away, Liverpool at home and now Bayern at home, we all had less posession yet these games have produced our biggest wins. Its not luck, its brilliant management. Wenger has his faults of course, but arguing he doenst do tactics is just wrong. Last night showed he does, and it was one of the best arsenal performances i have seen.

Up the Arsenal

:gp: Ollie.

I was watching the same BT feed and listening to Owen Hargreaves saying we need to put more pressure on them, be more brave and not show them so much respect. The other commentator implied we were being negative. Total bollocks. I was almost caught up agreeing with Hargreaves thinking we can't stand off them but took a step back and looked at what was going on on the pitch. They weren't hurting us and cutting us open. We had them contained, restricted their chances the best way possible and set ourselves nicely for the counter attacks. If it weren't for some fine saves and maybe a little more composure in the box, we'd have been ahead. Wenger got the tactics right.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Kinda impressed that you managed to have a dig at Wenger after last night's result. :lol:
Zimtastic.

He got it spot on last night and has shown what he's capable of....I'm just saying that It's frustrating that we have a capable manager who makes baffling decisions.

I think that's constructive criticism to say "if you can produce results like that, why aren't you on a more consistent basis and why are you still allowing ridiculous defeats to happen which could clearly have been avoided"

It's frustration, only a minuscule amount of supporters want to find fault with the manager....id love nothing more than for him to confound us all and win another title before he goes. I genuinely mean that, I'd want to win the title regardless but would mean even more to me if we did it under Wenger.

[Bumble]

Top result but it shows what a top keeper can do for you. Bellerin just gets better. the way he just bombed past the defender for Ozil's goal.

we were very lucky to win though with the first goal but how often do we dominate play only to make a mistake at the back and conceded. nice being the other way round for once.

the problem though is that Olympiakos won so unless we can get a point at Bayern... we might need to win by two goals or score 3 in Athens. Also winning means 3rd place is a lot more likely now so it could be a dose of the Spursday night cup.

[Power n Glory]

He got it spot on last night and has shown what he's capable of....I'm just saying that It's frustrating that we have a capable manager who makes baffling decisions.

I think that's constructive criticism to say "if you can produce results like that, why aren't you on a more consistent basis and why are you still allowing ridiculous defeats to happen which could clearly have been avoided"

It's frustration, only a minuscule amount of supporters want to find fault with the manager....id love nothing more than for him to confound us all and win another title before he goes. I genuinely mean that, I'd want to win the title regardless but would mean even more to me if we did it under Wenger.

Careful. Letters may start that silly 'Wenger didn't do anything significantly' different counter argument.

[Dein-machine]

He got it spot on last night and has shown what he's capable of....I'm just saying that It's frustrating that we have a capable manager who makes baffling decisions.

I think that's constructive criticism to say "if you can produce results like that, why aren't you on a more consistent basis and why are you still allowing ridiculous defeats to happen which could clearly have been avoided"

It's frustration, only a minuscule amount of supporters want to find fault with the manager....id love nothing more than for him to confound us all and win another title before he goes. I genuinely mean that, I'd want to win the title regardless but would mean even more to me if we did it under Wenger.

I would imagine NO supporter wants to find fault with their teams manager but our manager simply brings the vast amount of criticism on himself. We've had these glory moments before, beating Bayern away for example only to follow it with the usual struggles against Stoke & Swansea. If you read the posts at the moment its as though we are now "Wonder Team" - it was only a few weeks ago we lost to a Greek side who hadn't won away in the C.L for 12 years.
We played well against Utd, played OK 2nd half against Watford & very good last night but 10 years of proof tells us what will happen next.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

What.A.NIGHT!!

Echo everything about Wenger's tactics being spot on. You're never going to out pass or out dominate a Pep Bayern on the ball. The key was to keep our shape and discipline, not get caught up in silly pressing up the pitch and to take whatever chances that we got. And to also hope that our keeper remained strong whenever Bayern inevitably got some half chances which they did ...... don't think we would have won had Ospina or Ches been playing tonight let alone a clown like Almunia. Shows you the importance of having a top top goalie in the big games.

Bellerin had a difficult time against Douglas Costa who's probably the best winger in Europe right now before recovering to put in that assured performance leading up to that second goal.

Moreal, Kos, Coquelin and Per fantastic.

Santi's ability to use his quick footnedess to worm his way out of intense Bayern pressing and to start counter's was just so imperative to our game last night.

Ironically the only player to play below par tonight was Alexis. That bad pass to Costa nearly cost us. He'll make up for it with a hat trick against Everton I'm sure.

We absolutely must qualify now. This result won't count for shit if we still go out and the other result makes it still incredibly difficult for us. Barring Zagreb doing us a favour or Olympikiakos pulling off an upset against Bayern, it'll probably now come down to us having to beat Olympikiakos by two clear goals in Greece in the final game which is no easy feat. That Olympikakos game really fucked us over :doh: .... even a draw would have been acceptable as Olympiakos would have dropped points as well. Fucking Ospina.

[Letters]

I think that's constructive criticism to say "if you can produce results like that, why aren't you on a more consistent basis and why are you still allowing ridiculous defeats to happen which could clearly have been avoided".
Isn't that just football though? We shouldn't be losing to West Ham at home but nor should City. Football is just like that sometimes. On paper we shouldn't hardly ever be losing but football doesn't work like that, sport doesn't work like that.

We have, historically, done it too often but this calendar year we've been better. We do need to get more consistent but the Utd game and last night are signs of hope, as are some of the big games we won last season. I think we'd all love it if Wenger goes out on a high.

[fakeyank]

Just compare our relative front lines. If Aguero is fit. No contest. As it is what keeps us competitive in the league is that City can be vulberable against the stokes and W-Hams just like us

On another note. those extra linesmen. I used to think they were a waste. No more:respect:

Still dont think they are leagues above us. May be a touch better with Aguero in it, but no way close to being considered way better than us.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Isn't that just football though? We shouldn't be losing to West Ham at home but nor should City. Football is just like that sometimes. On paper we shouldn't hardly ever be losing but football doesn't work like that, sport doesn't work like that.

We have, historically, done it too often but this calendar year we've been better. We do need to get more consistent but the Utd game and last night are signs of hope, as are some of the big games we won last season. I think we'd all love it if Wenger goes out on a high.

No one is saying it doesn't happen, no one says we shouldn't ever lose games....of course defeats happen.

But it's a case of analysing why they happen and learning from it that helps, and as P'n'G rightly says more often than not results like last night prove to be false dawns, and in some ways it's better to appreciate them as one off results rather than encouraging trends.

I'd like to think now his margin for error has narrowed so he will be forced to assess what he did wrong in games we lose, and pressure will come on him to acheive more than just the bare minimum.

Two FA cup wins are good of course they are, but they have to be a springboard so want to see more performances where the manager puts his money where his mouth is and less statements where he claims to feel vindicated for not buying a striker because he shouldn't.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Still dont think they are leagues above us. May be a touch better with Aguero in it, but no way close to being considered way better than us.

Unless Aguero is in his beast mode form (about a couple of months a year), there's nowt much in it between our respective first elevens tbh.

Where they may have an advantage over us is that they have a deeper squad, thanks to them being able to keep 140 k a week players on the bench, something with our financial situation compared to theirs, we can't do. *cough Sagna cough*

I also don't think Pellegrini's as good a manager as Wenger though and additionally, like us in the past, their mentality isn't as strong and resolute as could be and can be prone to collapse when things go wrong ..... it's probably more of an issue for them considering that a lot of their team are just mercenaries.

[dostoy]

Fantastic result, I did'nt think it would happen.

We must be solid defensively far more often now in every match we play.

Hope Ramsey is ok and not out too long.

Well done Arsenal, keep it up.

[Letters]

But it's a case of analysing why they happen and learning from it that helps, and as P'n'G rightly says more often than not results like last night prove to be false dawns, and in some ways it's better to appreciate them as one off results rather than encouraging trends.
I think we've won more big games in this calendar years to show we're getting better at them.
It's debatable at the moment whether it's a trend, I guess we'll see that as we go through the season but the Bayern game is hot on the heels of the Utd one so there are good signs.

[LDG]

I also don't think Pellegrini's as good a manager as Wenger though and additionally, like us in the past, their mentality isn't as strong and resolute as could be and can be prone to collapse when things go wrong ..... it's probably more of an issue for them considering that a lot of their team are just mercenaries.

See this is where we should be drumming it into our players every week. Convince them that it's not us that will collapse when things get tough, and that it's the other teams.

Confidence is not only about being cocksure when you win. It's also about believing you will pull yourself through when you're 1-0 down and everything is going against you. And if you do lose, that it's not through lack of effort or approach, but it was just not your day / the ref was a cunt etc.

It's all in the mentality (work), preparation (tactics) and on the pitch (quality/desire). The quality of the players isn't in doubt, and hasn't been on numerous occasions in the past (spending or not).

The one thing which may tip the balance is if we're running on empty at Christmas, with injuries, and Wenget decides not to strengthen.

It's in our hands (in the most part), fucking do it!

[Kano]

Our under-19's also beat Bayern a few hours before at Borehamwood, 2-0. Iwobi scored a screamer apparently.

They are in a similar Euro competition and play the same games as the first team, so will be travelling out with them to play Bayern and co too.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/oct/21/arsenal-under-19s-thierry-henry-andries-jonker

[fakeyank]

See this is where we should be drumming it into our players every week. Convince them that it's not us that will collapse when things get tough, and that it's the other teams.

Confidence is not only about being cocksure when you win. It's also about believing you will pull yourself through when you're 1-0 down and everything is going against you. And if you do lose, that it's not through lack of effort or approach, but it was just not your day / the ref was a cunt etc.

It's all in the mentality (work), preparation (tactics) and on the pitch (quality/desire). The quality of the players isn't in doubt, and hasn't been on numerous occasions in the past (spending or not).

The one thing which may tip the balance is if we're running on empty at Christmas, with injuries, and Wenget decides not to strengthen.

It's in our hands (in the most part), fucking do it!

:gp:

[Kano]

See this is where we should be drumming it into our players every week. Convince them that it's not us that will collapse when things get tough, and that it's the other teams.

Confidence is not only about being cocksure when you win. It's also about believing you will pull yourself through when you're 1-0 down and everything is going against you. And if you do lose, that it's not through lack of effort or approach, but it was just not your day / the ref was a cunt etc.

It's all in the mentality (work), preparation (tactics) and on the pitch (quality/desire). The quality of the players isn't in doubt, and hasn't been on numerous occasions in the past (spending or not).

The one thing which may tip the balance is if we're running on empty at Christmas, with injuries, and Wenget decides not to strengthen.

It's in our hands (in the most part), fucking do it!

This is where the character of the team comes to the fore. Ballack was briefly talking about th Chelsea situation before the game, saying that they used to have 6/7 international captains in the dressing room, guys who could deal with the loudmouth cunt that is Mourinho, whereas now, they don't seem to have that backbone to fight back.

Those are the guys that will get you through the shit when it hits the fan. The literal and figurative giants we used to have in our team, scrapping out games when things aren't quite clicking together. They are the guys that inspire others around them and can keep confidence from hitting rock bottom. It's not something you can coach or instil, either you have it or you don't and it evolves organically. That's where buying in the right players comes into it and not just based on pure technical ability. Whether those personalities exist enough within this squad remains to be seen. Sometimes it isn't immediately apparent and this season will make or break this group of players I think.

[Globalgunner]

Still dont think they are leagues above us. May be a touch better with Aguero in it, but no way close to being considered way better than us.

Aguero, Sterling, Bony, DeBruyne, vs Sanchez, Giroud, Walcott, Welbeck. Hmmmm, which to choose?

[Power n Glory]

Aguero, Sterling, Bony, DeBruyne, vs Sanchez, Giroud, Walcott, Welbeck. Hmmmm, which to choose?

What are you seeing there? It's really not that obvious from that line up of players.

[Globalgunner]

What are you seeing there? It's really not that obvious from that line up of players.

Football fans with our lovable biases.
Just ask the fan of any other club which bunch they would choose and you will get your answer.
Basically what you are saying is City spent 200m and we spent 80m for the same thing. It is not for nothing that we were crying out for a striker in July. If we had the City lineup, would anyone still be asking for a striker? Be real. Only Sanchez is as good as what City have up front.

[Letters]

I thought we were comparing starting XIs or squads, not just part of them. Overall I don't think there's much in it.

[Power n Glory]

Football fans with our lovable biases.
Just ask the fan of any other club which bunch they would choose and you will get your answer.
Basically what you are saying is City spent 200m and we spent 80m for the same thing. It is not for nothing that we were crying out for a striker in July. If we had the City lineup, would anyone still be asking for a striker? Be real. Only Sanchez is as good as what City have up front.

No, I didn't say that. I said it's not clear cut.

Especially if we’re talking about the front line and swapping them over. Giroud has a more consistent strike record over Bony in the Prem. Both are 20+ strikers but I’ve only seen Bony score that much once in the Prem. I’d prefer Bony but it’s debatable not clear cut. Walcott has a more consistent record of goals over Sterling and De Bruyne. I’d say they are both technically more skilled than Walcott on the ball but I don’t know about off the ball and getting goals. So if we’re talking whose going to get more goals, I really don’t think it’s clear cut. Welbeck isn’t worth comparing. His goal contribution is pathetic.

I’m not so certain about City’s strike force without Sergio. If we’d swapped, I’d still think we’d need extra even though I think they have talented players.

[Globalgunner]

When it comes to opinions nothing is clear cut. We discuss to compare opinions
Walcott doesnt score goals, hasnt done consistently for 3 seasons now. No point arguing that he has been injured. You cant argue that a knife is sharp, if you cant find where you left it. when he plays he is more miss than hit.
Giroud is 1 dimensional he has no movement. Bony as he showed in Swansea is everything Giroud is and more, he can actually do more than stand in 1 position.
Welbeck is well I dont know what to say.

Squads are relative but our keeper is slightly better than theirs,
Our backlines are comaparable but they have moe depth in CB than us
Midfield they have the 2 Fernandos as DM, we have only Coq
Creatively we have Cazorla and Ozil, while they have Yaya and Silva.

It is not for nothing that most pundits rank them favourites over us.
It may not be clear cut to you but it is pretty obvious to me
Anything however is possible in football

[Niall_Quinn]

I wouldn't take Bony over Giroud, not if we now consider Theo to be our first choice. Giroud is a better alternative to Bony. The question is, is Theo better than Giroud and Bony? Jury is out. He's better at scaring defenders, but we need to see some firepower from him now. Aguero is better than all of them rolled together. Don't think DeBruyne is a striker at all really. Neither is Alexis.

Bias or not, I'd take our first eleven over the gypos. I think our lot have a better attitude to the game, less cynicism, more football. Apart from Aguero, one of my favourite players and has a superb attitude and if found a genie lamp he'd be playing for us up top with Alexis, Ozil and Theo behind. Can you imagine it?

[Power n Glory]

When it comes to opinions nothing is clear cut. We discuss to compare opinions
Walcott doesnt score goals, hasnt done consistently for 3 seasons now. No point arguing that he has been injured. You cant argue that a knife is sharp, if you cant find where you left it. when he plays he is more miss than hit.
Giroud is 1 dimensional he has no movement. Bony as he showed in Swansea is everything Giroud is and more, he can actually do more than stand in 1 position.
Welbeck is well I dont know what to say.

Squads are relative but our keeper is slightly better than theirs,
Our backlines are comaparable but they have moe depth in CB than us
Midfield they have the 2 Fernandos as DM, we have only Coq
Creatively we have Cazorla and Ozil, while they have Yaya and Silva.

It is not for nothing that most pundits rank them favourites over us.
It may not be clear cut to you but it is pretty obvious to me
Anything however is possible in football


The problem with you is the way you see the negative in our own squad but look at the clear green grass in other squads without the facts. The hate for Walcott is blinding sometimes. He has scored consistently since being back from injury . That’s a fact and not opinion. As much as I say Giroud is a limited striker, he has had 3 seasons for us where he’s scored goals for us. Not a great deal but I can’t look at Bony’s one season for Swansea and say it’s clear swap. It was just one season. Sterling doesn’t have a great scoring record. Neither does De Bruyne. Tally up the goal records and it’s not a huge margin.

[Letters]

Walcott had a 1 in 2 ratio before his injury, the last 2 seasons he had a poorer ratio but you can't just ignore the injury as irrelevant - unless the point is he's always going to have injury problems and thus won't be effective a la Diaby but it's a bit early to write him off right now IMO. This year his ratio is about 1 in 2 so far which is perfectly respectable. He's no Aguero but not many players are, if he keeps a 1 in 2 ratio this season he'll be a real asset.

[Power n Glory]

When it comes to opinions nothing is clear cut. We discuss to compare opinions
Walcott doesnt score goals, hasnt done consistently for 3 seasons now. No point arguing that he has been injured. You cant argue that a knife is sharp, if you cant find where you left it. when he plays he is more miss than hit.
Giroud is 1 dimensional he has no movement. Bony as he showed in Swansea is everything Giroud is and more, he can actually do more than stand in 1 position.
Welbeck is well I dont know what to say.

Squads are relative but our keeper is slightly better than theirs,
Our backlines are comaparable but they have moe depth in CB than us
Midfield they have the 2 Fernandos as DM, we have only Coq
Creatively we have Cazorla and Ozil, while they have Yaya and Silva.

It is not for nothing that most pundits rank them favourites over us.
It may not be clear cut to you but it is pretty obvious to me
Anything however is possible in football

Say we swapped Giroud or Welbeck for Bony. How would you feel about our strikeforce?

[Niall_Quinn]

Walcott had a 1 in 2 ratio before his injury, the last 2 seasons he had a poorer ratio but you can't just ignore the injury as irrelevant - unless the point is he's always going to have injury problems and thus won't be effective a la Diaby but it's a bit early to write him off right now IMO. This year his ratio is about 1 in 2 so far which is perfectly respectable. He's no Aguero but not many players are, if he keeps a 1 in 2 ratio this season he'll be a real asset.

His performance on Tuesday was a big setback. He has to do a lot more than that if he wants to pin down the role. As things stand, we still need a striker come January or the summer. Theo has been showing signs he's stepping up but he's not there yet and surely has a limited time to prove his credentials. The 1 in 2 ratio is entirely misleading. It appears to show consistency but the real measure is whether he can bag 20+ goals over a campaign on a consistent basis. If he can do that he's a viable option. And if he can do it when it really matters then he's a good option. Can't see it myself. There are upsides to his game no doubt, but the downside are there too and they are a real issue.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He pins down the role and rightfully so because starting with Giroud is simply no longer an option, is Walcott anywhere near the level that we require in terms of being clinical? Absolutely not.
But he pins down the role by default because of his ability to stretch the game with his pace and thus open up chances for his team mates as a consequence.
Giroud for me has always been best as an impact substitute and it appears that Wenger agrees, and is using him well to that effect.
Now of course everything I've said is only true until January, we need to go in hard for a top striker and defensive midfielder...I'm in no illusion that this will happen but that's what we should do.

[selassie]

I thought we were comparing starting XIs or squads, not just part of them. Overall I don't think there's much in it.

I honestly don't think their is either. I much rather we were fighting it out with City than Chelsea or Utd for the title. As said by others on this thread City have questionable mentality, they are just as likely to implode as we are and it's not a new thing with them.

I think they have a marginally better team/squad than us but considering what they spent they really should be out of sight.

Despite me thinking the above, I don't really fear them that much, if anything I look forward to playing them more than the other 2 top 4 teams.

[Marc Overmars]

Ramsey is out for three weeks. Little bit hamstring.

[Power n Glory]

Paternity leave. :lol: He's faking or the clubs covering.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

De Bruyne is more comparable to an Ozil or Silva in style. He isn't on that level just yet but probably will be in a season or two once he settles in fully.

Don't think there is anything between Giroud and Bony. As said before, both are proven 20 goal a season PL strikers. Giroud would look as similarly impressive playing for a Swansea or a Palace.

Aguero is a better player than Alexis unquestionably but he's also incredibly more injury prone than him. As it's impossible to guarantee he'll be fit for 30+ league games in a season, I can honestly say I wouldn't swap them.

Cech's better than Hart.

Defence's are similar though I think our fullbacks are better.

Theo's more proven in the league than Sterling and Navas.


Like I said, all in all, pretty similar first elevens.


Ramsey is out for three weeks. Little bit hamstring.

Knowing us it'd be more like four to five weeks. :rolleyes:

Still, decent news. The fact that he was able to limp of by himself instead of needing help suggested as much on Tuesday.

The Ox must seize this chance.

[Niall_Quinn]

He pins down the role and rightfully so because starting with Giroud is simply no longer an option, is Walcott anywhere near the level that we require in terms of being clinical? Absolutely not.
But he pins down the role by default because of his ability to stretch the game with his pace and thus open up chances for his team mates as a consequence.
Giroud for me has always been best as an impact substitute and it appears that Wenger agrees, and is using him well to that effect.
Now of course everything I've said is only true until January, we need to go in hard for a top striker and defensive midfielder...I'm in no illusion that this will happen but that's what we should do.

That's what I mean by pinning down the role - from January and beyond. He has a lot of work to do before you could say he's a viable long term option. We have to hope that happens because I agree, I don't see anything coming in for January. Nobody will be available and even if they were I doubt we'll move.

[Letters]

His performance on Tuesday was a big setback. He has to do a lot more than that if he wants to pin down the role. As things stand, we still need a striker come January or the summer. Theo has been showing signs he's stepping up but he's not there yet and surely has a limited time to prove his credentials. The 1 in 2 ratio is entirely misleading. It appears to show consistency but the real measure is whether he can bag 20+ goals over a campaign on a consistent basis. If he can do that he's a viable option. And if he can do it when it really matters then he's a good option. Can't see it myself. There are upsides to his game no doubt, but the downside are there too and they are a real issue.

The frustrating thing about him is he shows flashes of being the real deal but he's not been consistent enough.
If he can stay free of injury free I still hold out hope he can get there.

[selassie]

Ramsey is out for three weeks. Little bit hamstring.

He won't be back for six weeks, Wenger will come out in 3 weeks time and say Ramsey has a little bit of a setback...

[Power n Glory]

His performance on Tuesday was a big setback. He has to do a lot more than that if he wants to pin down the role. As things stand, we still need a striker come January or the summer. Theo has been showing signs he's stepping up but he's not there yet and surely has a limited time to prove his credentials. The 1 in 2 ratio is entirely misleading. It appears to show consistency but the real measure is whether he can bag 20+ goals over a campaign on a consistent basis. If he can do that he's a viable option. And if he can do it when it really matters then he's a good option. Can't see it myself. There are upsides to his game no doubt, but the downside are there too and they are a real issue.

I think you overcook the whole Theo debate a long with a few other posters. Before the game was even over you were saying he cost us the game with some of the chances he had. We saw easier chances totally missed this season. That game in fact. The header was the best chance he had and that was a miraculous save from Neuer. He wasn’t having a quiet game. Watford he had a quiet game but before that he scored for England and set up two goals in the Utd game and caused their defence some serious problems. Cut him some slack. He’s not going to score in every game but he didn’t look lost against an experienced defence and was able to rattle them. That’s what you should be taking from his last performance. I said this to Blink but it’s annoying how people forgot so quickly when it comes to Theo from one game to the next.

[Globalgunner]

Say we swapped Giroud or Welbeck for Bony. How would you feel about our strikeforce?

Nice that you have calmed down. No need to use terms like hate, you dont know my disposition any more than I yours. There is a muppet who comes on here once in a while; claims hes a tennis expert to abuse anyone who disagrees with his point of view. I have no time for such infantile clowns. What brings us together is a love for this club. We can disagree without abuse. I dont hate Walcott, he didnt steal my Ferrari. I simply believe he is in delusion if he thinks he is a striker. He can finish but only intermitently. He is simply not good enough. Giroud has attributes but is also not good enough for a team that wants to be on par with the best clubs in the world. They are our players so we wish them well in every game but saying another club has better players is no sacriledge. A better team can be beaten by a lesser one with the right tactics and application. To beat City over a season we need them to stumble much more than we will over the same course. It can be done
I also find it ironic that people who shout to the rooftops that Billionaire clubs are ruining footie are seeing the two squads as being on par. If they are buying the title is it with better players or nefarious pollution of the game by other means. id like to know.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think you overcook the whole Theo debate a long with a few other posters. Before the game was even over you were saying he cost us the game with some of the chances he had. We saw easier chances totally missed this season. That game in fact. The header was the best chance he had and that was a miraculous save from Neuer. He wasn’t having a quiet game. Watford he had a quiet game but before that he scored for England and set up two goals in the Utd game and caused their defence some serious problems. Cut him some slack. He’s not going to score in every game but he didn’t look lost against an experienced defence and was able to rattle them. That’s what you should be taking from his last performance. I said this to Blink but it’s annoying how people forgot so quickly when it comes to Theo from one game to the next.

I don't expect him or any striker to score every match. But when he gets good chances in a game then I expect him to take one of them. This is what we mean by a top tier striker, isn't it? One chance maybe two, bang, change the game. That's what you pay the big money for. Theo isn't there yet. He has improved and he's doing pretty well considering he's been in the role for such a short time. But that's not the central issue. Do we want to push on and really start challenging for the big trophies now? We all do. Is Theo the guy to go to if we want to see that happen? Or do we get the chequebook out and buy the finished article? We know what our opposition will do, they don't hesitate. I'd prefer it if Theo was the option we went with because he's been here a long time. But between now and (probably) the summer he's going to have to become a lot more ruthless in front of goal and on a consistent basis. Couple that ruthlessness with his pace and movement and we have a striker on our hands. Otherwise we'll have to spend the money to bring that in unless we want to remain an almost team.

[Niall_Quinn]

The frustrating thing about him is he shows flashes of being the real deal but he's not been consistent enough.
If he can stay free of injury free I still hold out hope he can get there.

My feeling too. Not sure he'll make it - hope he does.

When you see Alexis strike a ball and the power and movement he can put into that strike, that's what we need from Theo. He gets into good positions and he makes good runs but his end result is often powder-puff. Not always (so he has the ability) but mostly. Some of his efforts on Tuesday were completely gay.

[Power n Glory]

Nice that you have calmed down. No need to use terms like hate, you dont know my disposition any more than I yours. There is a muppet who comes on here once in a while; claims hes a tennis expert to abuse anyone who disagrees with his point of view. I have no time for such infantile clowns. What brings us together is a love for this club. We can disagree without abuse. I dont hate Walcott, he didnt steal my Ferrari. I simply believe he is in delusion if he thinks he is a striker. He can finish but only intermitently. He is simply not good enough. Giroud has attributes but is also not good enough for a team that wants to be on par with the best clubs in the world. They are our players so we wish them well in every game but saying another club has better players is no sacriledge. A better team can be beaten by a lesser one with the right tactics and application. To beat City over a season we need them to stumble much more than we will over the same course. It can be done
I also find it ironic that people who shout to the rooftops that Billionaire clubs are ruining footie are seeing the two squads as being on par. If they are buying the title is it with better players or nefarious pollution of the game by other means. id like to know.

You see me post all the time and pretty blunt and straight to the point with everyone. Don't take it personal and that's far from abuse, believe me.

Swap the word hate and let's just say you're biased against him. Or notice the more negative and it's not just you for that one.

You make a good point on this post and that's something for Letters to answer.

[Power n Glory]

I don't expect him or any striker to score every match. But when he gets good chances in a game then I expect him to take one of them. This is what we mean by a top tier striker, isn't it? One chance maybe two, bang, change the game. That's what you pay the big money for. Theo isn't there yet. He has improved and he's doing pretty well considering he's been in the role for such a short time. But that's not the central issue. Do we want to push on and really start challenging for the big trophies now? We all do. Is Theo the guy to go to if we want to see that happen? Or do we get the chequebook out and buy the finished article? We know what our opposition will do, they don't hesitate. I'd prefer it if Theo was the option we went with because he's been here a long time. But between now and (probably) the summer he's going to have to become a lot more ruthless in front of goal and on a consistent basis. Couple that ruthlessness with his pace and movement and we have a striker on our hands. Otherwise we'll have to spend the money to bring that in unless we want to remain an almost team.

What were the chances he didn't take that game? I think he needs to work on his long range striking and put some zip on his shot. There was one where he broke from the left cutting in was really tame and easy but if he belts that in, that's a wonder goal. Not an easy goal. So far he's looked very good as striker and it's getting more out of other players plus it's getting Bif to raise his game. Just some patience would be nice because it's not as if he's had a really dry spell like other players have had in this squad. Been saying for donkeys that he's best suited as a striker and he's proving it. But you shouldn't be so quick to write him off after one or two games.

[Kano]

If he can stay free of injury free...

:lol: and that's always going to be the problem. He can score and assist as much as we all dream of for a while, then he'll fall apart again. He's had too much so far to suggest those days are over.

[Globalgunner]

My feeling too. Not sure he'll make it - hope he does.

When you see Alexis strike a ball and the power and movement he can put into that strike, that's what we need from Theo. He gets into good positions and he makes good runs but his end result is often powder-puff. Not always (so he has the ability) but mostly. Some of his efforts on Tuesday were completely gay.

The problem with Walcott is that he has designs of being the next Henry. When he first joined us I used to tear my hair out with the often times powder puff efforts that Thierry would aim at goal. The difference is that Henry had precision, he built that up into unerring markmanship. What I dont get with Theo is what he thinks he will gain by insisting on being put in the centre. Will he ever play for England as a striker. No. A completely bald and hobbling Rooney will get picked over him for the next 4 years, now that Kane is pretending to be the next Shearer, so will he too. Walcott has left a guaranteed stating position on the right to bet it all on being a striker. We indulge players too much at this club. A proper manager would have taken him aside and told him the obvious truth. You can also be lethal coming in from the wing. Get with the program.

[Power n Glory]

:lol: and that's always going to be the problem. He can score and assist as much as we all dream of for a while, then he'll fall apart again. He's had too much so far to suggest those days are over.

Fingers crossed but at least he has no reoccurring problems. They’re mainly imapact. If he had constant hamstring injuries like Ramsey/Rosicky and Wilshere’s constant ankle problems, I’d be less hopeful.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Who will Wenger replace Ramsey with in the starting XI, will he actually go for playing Bellerin and Ox on the right?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ramsey is out for three weeks. Little bit hamstring.

RIP

[Power n Glory]

The problem with Walcott is that he has designs of being the next Henry. When he first joined us I used to tear my hair out with the often times powder puff efforts that Thierry would aim at goal. The difference is that Henry had precision, he built that up into unerring markmanship. What I dont get with Theo is what he thinks he will gain by insisting on being put in the centre. Will he ever play for England as a striker. No. A completely bald and hobbling Rooney will get picked over him for the next 4 years, now that Kane is pretending to be the next Shearer, so will he too. Walcott has left a guaranteed stating position on the right to bet it all on being a striker. We indulge players too much at this club. A proper manager would have taken him aside and told him the obvious truth. You can also be lethal coming in from the wing. Get with the program.

He wasn’t a guaranteed starter on the wing for club or country and the criticism he’s faced up front is what he’s faced on the right wing. Did you rate him as a winger because you’ve said he was frustrating to watch there as well.

[Globalgunner]

If he stayed on the wing he would hopefully restrict the misfiring Ramsey to bench duties. His criticism on the wing was that he did not backtrack and help his FB enough. Who would start ahead of him on the wing, certainly not the motley crew from Doddering Hotspurs. LOL

[Power n Glory]

If he stayed on the wing he would hopefully restrict the misfiring Ramsey to bench duties. His criticism on the wing was that he did not backtrack and help his FB enough. Who would start ahead of him on the wing, certainly not the motley crew from Doddering Hotspurs. LOL

I don’t rate Walcott’s dribbling ability to play the right wing and I don’t think that’s something he’s going to learn. I rate him more in the final third with his runs. That’s where he causes serious problems. He’s no Thierry Henry but we should have been training him up to be our Michael Owen or an Ian Wright.

[Niall_Quinn]

What were the chances he didn't take that game? I think he needs to work on his long range striking and put some zip on his shot. There was one where he broke from the left cutting in was really tame and easy but if he belts that in, that's a wonder goal. Not an easy goal. So far he's looked very good as striker and it's getting more out of other players plus it's getting Bif to raise his game. Just some patience would be nice because it's not as if he's had a really dry spell like other players have had in this squad. Been saying for donkeys that he's best suited as a striker and he's proving it. But you shouldn't be so quick to write him off after one or two games.

I'm not writing him off at all. I'm saying he has limited time to hit the top level because we can't hang around waiting for him. So far he's quite a way from being the level we should be looking for if we realistically want to sustain a challenge for trophies. If we don't care so much about being at the sharp end of competition then I suppose we can wait around. But we do care so Theo needs to be right on his game and banging the goals in on a consistent basis if he wants to make that place his own. This is fairly obvious. Same would apply at any club. Tuesday's game is not a writing him off, it's saying he failed to take the next step. He has another chance in a couple of weeks.

[Letters]

:lol: and that's always going to be the problem. He can score and assist as much as we all dream of for a while, then he'll fall apart again. He's had too much so far to suggest those days are over.

He's hardly a Diaby, he had one major injury but I wouldn't write him off just yet.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don’t rate Walcott’s dribbling ability to play the right wing and I don’t think that’s something he’s going to learn. I rate him more in the final third with his runs. That’s where he causes serious problems. He’s no Thierry Henry but we should have been training him up to be our Michael Owen or an Ian Wright.

He's definitely no Owen or Wright either. Both those guys were decisive and clinical, which certainly can't be said for Theo at this stage. Theo has ridiculous pace, he's shown signs he's learning how to make the runs and find the space as a striker, he occasionally reminds us he would be a good finisher if he was more focused, but he's a mile behind the likes of Owen and Wright. Owen at a much younger age was well ahead of where Theo is now, and Wright was a late starter but even so developed year in year in a way Theo hasn't. Unfortunately we are still trying to judge Theo's potential. He hasn't arrived yet. He may be closer than ever before but he hasn't arrived.

[Marc Overmars]

Main thing for Theo this season is to stay clear of injuries if he's going to truly prove himself, if he's out of the team for a while again I don't think he's getting back in. Particularly when Welbeck is back.

[Power n Glory]

Main thing for Theo this season is to stay clear of injuries if he's going to truly prove himself, if he's out of the team for a while again I don't think he's getting back in. Particularly when Welbeck is back.

Welbeck isn't a threat. He had a long time playing up front and he really didn't change our game like I imagined. I thought he'd combine the physical hard working play that Giroud brings along with some pace so we can get behind teams in a similar way Walcott does. Maybe he needs more time to adjust but when Giroud was out injured, I wasn't convinced and I doubt he'll get an extended uninterrupted run like that again with no competition. I'm more worried for him to be honest.

[Kano]

He's hardly a Diaby, he had one major injury but I wouldn't write him off just yet.
Do you remember that link I posted here a couple of months back detailing the ridiculous amount of time he has spent away from the pitch? Also, based on the past 15 years worth of data, he is currently 8th on the list of players who have spent the longest time out injured in the PL. Over 1000 days. He can't be relied on long term.

[Kano]

Fingers crossed but at least he has no reoccurring problems. They’re mainly imapact. If he had constant hamstring injuries like Ramsey/Rosicky and Wilshere’s constant ankle problems, I’d be less hopeful.

Given how many have occurred, it's safe to say they will keep popping up, no matter what causes them. I mean, Rosicky has a rep for being a sick note but Theo is only 150 days behind the guy in terms of time spent out injured. It's particularly worrying given it has happened so much in the early stages of his career, not after being worn down by the wear and tear of playing the game for years. All those injuries have seriously affected his development too, years he just can't get back now.

[Marc Overmars]

Welbeck isn't a threat. He had a long time playing up front and he really didn't change our game like I imagined. I thought he'd combine the physical hard working play that Giroud brings along with some pace so we can get behind teams in a similar way Walcott does. Maybe he needs more time to adjust but when Giroud was out injured, I wasn't convinced and I doubt he'll get an extended uninterrupted run like that again with no competition. I'm more worried for him to be honest.

I have a feeling Welbeck is one of those players WUMger unequivocally trusts. With some players you feel like they're always on trial with him, and rightly or wrongly Theo is one of those.

[fakeyank]

Aguero, Sterling, Bony, DeBruyne, vs Sanchez, Giroud, Walcott, Welbeck. Hmmmm, which to choose?

You take Aguero out of that and Welbeck out of ours, and you will select Arsenals forward line any day. Aguero is the difference in their front line but he is also injury prone. Our GK and defense slightly shade their defense. In midfield, I think we are equal. So tell me how they are leaps ahead of us?

Another thing going for us is the fact that our squad has been together much longer compared to the City guys. This is something you completely ignore, while comparing players just on relative strengths. On every part of the field, we have players with more experience playing as an Arsenal player than City has in terms of experience as a City player.

Again, I am not saying we are the better squad, I am just saying that we are very close. With some luck, sound tactics and more determination, we stand a very very good chance. You just have to look at the last Utd squad that won the PL to see how that can be done, and they actually had a very inferior squad compared to City's.

[Power n Glory]

He's definitely no Owen or Wright either. Both those guys were decisive and clinical, which certainly can't be said for Theo at this stage. Theo has ridiculous pace, he's shown signs he's learning how to make the runs and find the space as a striker, he occasionally reminds us he would be a good finisher if he was more focused, but he's a mile behind the likes of Owen and Wright. Owen at a much younger age was well ahead of where Theo is now, and Wright was a late starter but even so developed year in year in a way Theo hasn't. Unfortunately we are still trying to judge Theo's potential. He hasn't arrived yet. He may be closer than ever before but he hasn't arrived.

I remember saying this before some years back but can you imagine if Owen or Wright were played down the wing? Henry himself said he had to relearn how to finish after that stint at Juve on the flanks. You can even see it with Ramsey and how he's totally off his shooting game being played out of position. It's a confidence thing and I think it's taken Theo a while to make that right position his own and finish comfortably. I think we developed him wrong or had him focused on the wrong things from young. Pace is the only reason he was played wide when he should have been learning the art of striking. I don't think he is bad, just not clinical. With practice it will come but we have left it late..

[Power n Glory]

You take Aguero out of that and Welbeck out of ours, and you will select Arsenals forward line any day. Aguero is the difference in their front line but he is also injury prone. Our GK and defense slightly shade their defense. In midfield, I think we are equal. So tell me how they are leaps ahead of us?

Another thing going for us is the fact that our squad has been together much longer compared to the City guys. This is something you completely ignore, while comparing players just on relative strengths. On every part of the field, we have players with more experience playing as an Arsenal player than City has in terms of experience as a City player.

Again, I am not saying we are the better squad, I am just saying that we are very close. With some luck, sound tactics and more determination, we stand a very very good chance. You just have to look at the last Utd squad that won the PL to see how that can be done, and they actually had a very inferior squad compared to City's.

Our squad really isn't that bad. Besides having a weaker bench and I think the first team is very close to our rivals. It's just the centre forward position and the right wing that let us down.

[Globalgunner]

You take Aguero out of that and Welbeck out of ours, and you will select Arsenals forward line any day. Aguero is the difference in their front line but he is also injury prone. Our GK and defense slightly shade their defense. In midfield, I think we are equal. So tell me how they are leaps ahead of us?

Another thing going for us is the fact that our squad has been together much longer compared to the City guys. This is something you completely ignore, while comparing players just on relative strengths. On every part of the field, we have players with more experience playing as an Arsenal player than City has in terms of experience as a City player.

Again, I am not saying we are the better squad, I am just saying that we are very close. With some luck, sound tactics and more determination, we stand a very very good chance. You just have to look at the last Utd squad that won the PL to see how that can be done, and they actually had a very inferior squad compared to City's.

Much of what you posted are mere semantics. How has our togetherness been an advantage when City have finished ahead of us the last 5 seasons and actually won the league 2 times in that period. We have a saying in my area, that even when you are weeping buckets of tears, you can still see. How can anyone not see the quality that Debruyne brings. I saw yesterdays goal and thought wow. When last did Giroud, Walcott smash in a worldie that made a difference for us in a crunch tie?. Instead you see Giroud put in a shambles against Monaco last season, Walcott fluff lines repeatedly game after game and we keep saying wait hes gonna come good. Hey we can keep waiting for the stars to align for these players but in the meantime others bag the big spoils and we keep postponing world domination. These players are at the 3rd tier of international quality and some insist that they are not.

The thing about City in truth is that they distort the market with frivoulous spending, because they are not profit centered or even short term business based. They overspent on Sterling even though nobody was in competition with them for his signature. they could easily have got him for 35 or 40m, but they just said fk it. take 60m or whatever it was. Debruyne was slightly different because Wolfsburg are minted and had no reason to sell a player under contract. Sterling had a season left (i think), but no one else even showed any interest at Liverpools asking price. i used to think Sterling was pony, but now i am not so sure.

[Alpha]

The most annoying thing is how short the memory of most Arsenal fans seems to be . Questioning Walcott at this stage is pointless . He is doing really well in his new role as a striker . It doesn't happen overnight . We saw how Wenger transformed RVP from a winger or second striker to a deadly finisher . What makes you think he will not do it with Walcott ? Most strikers we had in the past succeeded because of Wenger . Henry was just a shy winger at Juventus and Wenger made him one of most fearsome strikers in the league . Please give Walcott time and he will surprise and amaze you .

[Niall_Quinn]

The most annoying thing is how short the memory of most Arsenal fans seems to be . Questioning Walcott at this stage is pointless . He is doing really well in his new role as a striker . It doesn't happen overnight . We saw how Wenger transformed RVP from a winger or second striker to a deadly finisher . What makes you think he will not do it with Walcott ? Most strikers we had in the past succeeded because of Wenger . Henry was just a shy winger at Juventus and Wenger made him one of most fearsome strikers in the league . Please give Walcott time and he will surprise and amaze you .

We don't need to give him time because the financial position of the club has changed and we are now placed to make good on the promises that underpinned the stadium move. A decade in the wilderness while we constructed a club that could compete at the very top level. Now we can buy the likes of Ozil and Alexis and we can buy a top quality striker too. As it should be, it's down to Theo to prove he can save us the money and make that role his own. He doesn't have much time and to stand a chance he needs to improve significantly in some key areas. He's on the road to doing it but why should the club and the fans wait around through years 11, 12 and 13 for that to happen when we don't need to? Our rivals continuously strengthen and so must we if we are going to seriously challenge them. I'm not against giving Theo the chance to state his claim and I think he'll get until the summer to make an impact due to the difficulty of signing top talent in January. That seems fair enough to me. If we are aiming to be a top club then we need top players. Theo is being given the opportunity to prove he is a top player and beyond that he's owed nothing.

[Alpha]

We don't need to give him time because the financial position of the club has changed and we are now placed to make good on the promises that underpinned the stadium move. A decade in the wilderness while we constructed a club that could compete at the very top level. Now we can buy the likes of Ozil and Alexis and we can buy a top quality striker too. As it should be, it's down to Theo to prove he can save us the money and make that role his own. He doesn't have much time and to stand a chance he needs to improve significantly in some key areas. He's on the road to doing it but why should the club and the fans wait around through years 11, 12 and 13 for that to happen when we don't need to? Our rivals continuously strengthen and so must we if we are going to seriously challenge them. I'm not against giving Theo the chance to state his claim and I think he'll get until the summer to make an impact due to the difficulty of signing top talent


in January. That seems fair enough to me. If we are aiming to be a top club then we need



top players. Theo is being given the opportunity to prove he is a top player and beyond that





he's owed nothing.

unfortunetaly , you have no options but to be patient . Even though we had to buy a finished article , they would need time to adapt . Falcao was a striker who would have made a fan of any team excited . But he hasn't found his boots yet from United to Chelsea . Also , Wenger knows any striker needs time to come good and he is very patient with them until , as a connoisseur , he finds out the guy will not make it .

[fakeyank]

Much of what you posted are mere semantics. How has our togetherness been an advantage when City have finished ahead of us the last 5 seasons and actually won the league 2 times in that period. We have a saying in my area, that even when you are weeping buckets of tears, you can still see. How can anyone not see the quality that Debruyne brings. I saw yesterdays goal and thought wow. When last did Giroud, Walcott smash in a worldie that made a difference for us in a crunch tie?. Instead you see Giroud put in a shambles against Monaco last season, Walcott fluff lines repeatedly game after game and we keep saying wait hes gonna come good. Hey we can keep waiting for the stars to align for these players but in the meantime others bag the big spoils and we keep postponing world domination. These players are at the 3rd tier of international quality and some insist that they are not.

The thing about City in truth is that they distort the market with frivoulous spending, because they are not profit centered or even short term business based. They overspent on Sterling even though nobody was in competition with them for his signature. they could easily have got him for 35 or 40m, but they just said fk it. take 60m or whatever it was. Debruyne was slightly different because Wolfsburg are minted and had no reason to sell a player under contract. Sterling had a season left (i think), but no one else even showed any interest at Liverpools asking price. i used to think Sterling was pony, but now i am not so sure.

You are concentrating just on City's forward line while ignoring midfield and Goal keeping. De Bruyne is good but you compare him to one our winger- Alexis and De Bruyne will at least now come second. I do not disagree that City shade us overall in quality... what I disagree with is you saying they are leagues ahead of us. You are completely discounting players like Ozil, Coq, Bellerin, Kos, Cech etc when you are looking at our squad.

[Power n Glory]

We don't need to give him time because the financial position of the club has changed and we are now placed to make good on the promises that underpinned the stadium move. A decade in the wilderness while we constructed a club that could compete at the very top level. Now we can buy the likes of Ozil and Alexis and we can buy a top quality striker too. As it should be, it's down to Theo to prove he can save us the money and make that role his own. He doesn't have much time and to stand a chance he needs to improve significantly in some key areas. He's on the road to doing it but why should the club and the fans wait around through years 11, 12 and 13 for that to happen when we don't need to? Our rivals continuously strengthen and so must we if we are going to seriously challenge them. I'm not against giving Theo the chance to state his claim and I think he'll get until the summer to make an impact due to the difficulty of signing top talent in January. That seems fair enough to me. If we are aiming to be a top club then we need top players. Theo is being given the opportunity to prove he is a top player and beyond that he's owed nothing.

I don't think anyone is asking for a year or two to see how things pan out. I'm just saying have some sort of memory. The Man Utd game wasn't that long ago. Heck, I've seen you be more lenient with Ozil and he has put in maybe a handful of top performances against big clubs. This is his third season now. This is one from Wenger's book, but if we were to treat Theo like a new signing, I think most fans would be pleased so far and have more patience. 4 goals and 4 assists from 9 starts if we're counting the Community Shield, so far this season. He's not looking out of sync with our attackers, not looking out of his depth or getting man handled...it's not bad so far.

[Globalgunner]

Ok FYI. You're a nice chap. Let's put this one to bed. Walcott should smash one in against Bayern in 2 weeks and I will be eating humble pie by the carton. COYGs

[Power n Glory]

Ok FYI. You're a nice chap. Let's put this one to bed. Walcott should smash one in against Bayern in 2 weeks and I will be eating humble pie by the carton. COYGs

I would have thought humble pie was already being served from the way he’s playing already. If you really preferred him playing him on the wing then you should know he’ll score important goals against anyone. His main function from the flank was to score goals. If he was able to do it on the flanks where he had less goal scoring opportunities, why would you object to him playing as a striker? If he had an anonymous game against Bayern, I’d understand the reservation.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Whilst I agree, I don't think playing him up front nullifies our need for a striker.....But I think him playing up there stretches the play through the middle of the park, where as Giroud can hold up the ball well which is good when defending a lead and maybe looking to add to it.

[Power n Glory]

I think he has at least until January to prove himself and then he has until the summer. But really it all depends on the market. I can understand the reluctance to spend a bomb for someone like Benzema or Cavani. But I’d rather we try someone up front with pace rather than Giroud. But I think we may see Wenger play Walcott out wide this weekend with Giroud up front. He’s said today they can work together. I hope that’s not case because I think it’s much easier to defend against.

[IBK]

I'm wondering whether its not a good thing - and a bit of a step change in AW's philosophy to be able to mix it up a bit in attack. We have seen Wenger alter his approach in the past few years - for example shedding what had become a frustrating obsession with possession football when it comes to playing teams that are arguably better than us. I think it is good that he seems a bit more flexible now in altering our attacking approach depending on who we are up against - something that seemed to be lacking in the past, and which frustrated the hell out of me.

As for the players themselves - given Walcott's performances this season and the back end at last I am prepared to accept that there was no similar player available in the transfer window who would have been an improvement. I think he deserves more time in a central role given that he has not played there for that long.

And Giroud has responded to being 'demoted' by scoring more goals than he has been given starts this season.

I'm going to be glass half full here - and am happy to allow both strikers to show what they can do over the next few months...

[alexander]

I'm going to be glass half full here - and am happy to allow both strikers to show what they can do over the next few months...

Agree. I wasnt happy going into the season with just Feo/Olly, but they are proving me wrong, and fair play, particularly Theo. They both offer something different and we can mix it up a bit. For now Im happy to continue like this, but I have my concerns if either pick up a lengthy (2 weeks plus) injury.

[fakeyank]

Frankly, I'd like us to play with both Theo and Giroud up front in some games. Change some things tactically and see how we do. I think Theo will be much more effective with another player holding up the ball for him.

[LDG]

Frankly, I'd like us to play with both Theo and Giroud up front in some games. Change some things tactically and see how we do. I think Theo will be much more effective with another player holding up the ball for him.

That, and Theo actually provides pretty decent service from the byline, which is where Giroud thrives.

We should be swapping it up more often anyway....keep the opponent guessing.