COC Reaction v Sheffield Wednesday

[Master Splinter]

Damaging game if Walcott and Ox are out for a long time. Which they will be.

Other than the injuries, a worthless game in every sense.

We already knew our injury situation is a farce that needs fixing. And we already knew that Debuchy, Flamini and Campbell are crap.

If Theo and Ox are somehow okay, this night will be instantly forgotten.

Oh, and bring back Jenks and Gnabbers. And make sure they don't pick up injuries on the motorway.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

At least we can't trigger a collapse from this competition in February.

[Gooner23]

With the injury list it's probably for the best we go out of this comp early but the performance was shambolic. Worrying gulf developing between first team and the back ups.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

I thought things were meant to be different with Shad. :(

[IBK]

It's funny but the general feeling was that the injury situation was improving under the new set up. Back to ridiculous now though.

[Ernesto]

A defeat is never what the doctor ordered. Not under a Wenger side. History proves that. I'm fearful not about how we bounce back, but when.

It's frustrating because this is a competition we can win. We've knocked Spurs out, one of the more serious competitors for this cup and then we get a humbling experience at a lower league side.

We're not going to win the champions league, the league will take a mental capacity that might be beyond us and we need a very favorable draw to try and retain the FA Cup (again, history dictates that winning the FA Cup three times in a row is nigh on impossible). Therefore, the league cup shouldn't be completely disregarded.

On the plus side, that Polish kid looked good.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger: "It was a very bad night for us. We lost two important players in the first part of the game and then we were not at the level we needed to be.

"Congratulations to them, they were faster, sharper and more decisive than us. We could not create anything. We were very naive when defending.

"We cannot master how people will react. I left six players at home and I still lost two to injury.

"The level was too high for the young players tonight. They are not ready to play at this level.

"We are short now with the injuries. It is a big blow for us."


Pretty candid from Wenger.

[Marc Overmars]

Didn't see it, don't care.

A competition Wenger is always quite unlikely to win given how low it is on the priority list. Most disappointing thing for me is that there wasn't an opportunity to see a game for £10 at the Emirates this season.

Terrible news with the injuries though, hope they're not serious.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'm only interested in seeing if our kit is as crap as people on here have been saying.

[Alpha]

Every defeat hurt and it wasn't a good example for the new young players . There is nothing wrong losing a such unnecessary game . But showing a bit of fight inspires the next generation .
On a positive note , Christian Bielike showed some maturity for a boy of 17 years old .

[Gooner23]

Pretty candid from Wenger.

Bit harsh to publicly criticise the youngsters when the senior players were just as bad, if not worse.

[adzzzbatch]

I'm only interested in seeing if our kit is as crap as people on here have been saying.

I think it will live up to expectation.

[Penguin]

We had to use this game to rest up our key players because we can't afford to be without them in the games that matter, as tonight's performance shows. But there's no excuse for the feeble performance we put in.

Debuchy, Flamini and Mertesacker can fuck off. I never expect anything from Flamini in the first place and Debuchy has been piss poor all season, but I expect much better from Mertesacker. I hope Gabriel keeps him out of the first team for a looooong time because that kind of shit isn't good enough for an Arsenal vice captain.

I have to say that the kids don't look up to standard though. No quality. The league cup is the biggest opportunity they have to make their case for the first team and not one of them took it. Iwobi ran around a lot, and Bielik looked tidy, but that's not good enough to make the step up. Most of the ones with promise like Akpom, Crowley and Toral have been shipped out on loan and it shows.

[JSAO]

Not impressed at all.......had money on all teams scoring in the cup tonight and Arsenal were the only ones who let me down........they never looked like get close to the goal! Obviously had not worked together as a unit and young ones seriously out of their depth........young Polish kid looked decent but not ready!

Mers made good point about the seasoned pros not turning up.....the defence was made up of a four we could well have to start a PL game with and they were crap and as Merse said let down the young ones in front. Merts should have been barking out orders but nobody was and that is crap I am afraid

[Master Splinter]

Not impressed at all.......had money on all teams scoring in the cup tonight and Arsenal were the only ones who let me down........they never looked like get close to the goal! Obviously had not worked together as a unit and young ones seriously out of their depth........young Polish kid looked decent but not ready!

Mers made good point about the seasoned pros not turning up.....the defence was made up of a four we could well have to start a PL game with and they were crap and as Merse said let down the young ones in front. Merts should have been barking out orders but nobody was and that is crap I am afraid

Hi!

Nice to hear the opinions of newcomers around here.

You'll soon boost your post count with contributions of this quality.

Welcome to GW.

[fakeyank]

Any news on Walcott?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Any news on Walcott?

He went off injured.

[Marc Overmars]

Sounds like they're both muscle injuries. More concerned with Theo because it was a result of not sufficiently warming up.

Wouldn't surprise me if it is the dreaded "2-3 weeks"

[Xhaka Can’t]

We'll be ok.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Fuhk was that...

[IBK]

Agree with many of the points but in the annoying over-reaction of the press today, the following needs to be remembered:

1. The quality of the Championship has improved hugely over the last few years - both in personnel and coaching. This is shown by the sheer variety of teams promoted to the EPL. While resources tend to show over a season, in one off games - particularly Cup Games at home (the attendance last night showed that this was Wednesday's biggest game for years) upsets are always on the cards. We were crap, but this isn't the seismic shock that the pundits would have people believe today. Wednesday are on the up and that kind of committed and super organised performance would have frustrated our first team - let alone the pot pourri of yesterday.

2. Wenger was right to rest our essential players for the least important tie we will play over the next couple of months. I felt that our starting 11 should have had enough experience/quality to compete - with seasoned players starting alongside youngsters in all key areas. The 2 injuries put paid to that.

3. We looked shite because of a poor collective performance but also because we do not have a system. Wenger relies upon players having telepathy and finding the right positions to take up to pass through the opposition. No way was this going to happen with players who had had no playing time together.

4. Ultimately, this is a competition that manager and fans do not care about, against a team that unlike Spurs we were not particularly motivated to beat. This inevitably transmits itself tip the players in this Arsenal team and it is this that if anything worries me most. How many times has even our first team seemed flat when a game is not a 'big' game. The defence was a shambles, but I wonder if our zonal system is particularly vulnerable to the typical Championship type of play, where set pieces and crossing from wide positions are more common than in the average EPL game.

5. Defensively, we should have had far more stability than we showed. Is this yet more evidence of the importance of Coq to our team? For me, him and Bellerin were our biggest misses last night.

[Globalgunner]

I hope this puts paid to the wrong notion that our squad is as good as the Mancs. Being a manager is a difficult job, but having a 2nd 11 that is not a patch on the 1st is bad management. We should have performed better yesterday, no matter who we put out. Its as if the 2nd string have a 2nd string mentality.

PS. we must buy Willy Cavarlho this winter. If anything happens to Coq, just watch our season go to pot. He has turned out to be as significant as Alexis and Ozil.

[Gooner23]

I agree we had to rest our key players but disappointing that some of the back ups were so poor. I know its difficult with lack of playing time and a lot of inexperienced youngsters in the mix, but just how poor are the likes of Debuchy and Gibbs looking? No where near challenging Bellerin and Monreal on that showing. Giroud looked like a guy that had been told not to get injured (which thankfully he didn't). I cant understand how Chambers has regressed so badly since he came to us. Young players have ups and downs, but he looks further away than ever from being a first teamer.

[Alpha]

Negatives about the Sheffield Wed. Game :
Everything : no fight , no desire , injuries , very bad performance .

Positives : Christian Bielik looks a really good prospect . He impressed a lot .

[selassie]

We were dreadful last night, what worried me more than anything was our back 4 which whilst not first choice was very experienced, they were a mess last night and I really worry about Gibbs and to a lesser degree Chambers. Debuchy for me is totally finished, what on earth has happened to him? Every performance from him this season has been horrible.

Despite all that we had a very patched up first XI last night and it showed, their was no understanding between any of them.

Biggest gripe of the night were the injuries which have officially become a major issue again, it's the same every season to pretty much the same set of players and despite the appointment of Shad Forsythe these muscular injuries just won't go away.

I'm hoping Ramsey, Theo & OX are all short term but I'm sure one of them will have a setback.

[Marc Overmars]

I think it's difficult when you know you're only playing because it's a meaningless game, add that to the fact the team was a mash up of of every kind of player at the club. Couple first teamers, back ups and youth teamers, seeing any sort of cohesion there would have been a surprise. Whenever we make wholesale changes it never ends well, though that still doesn't excuse the performance of the back 4, you'd expect better from them and it doesn't really bode well if/when they're called in to do a job for the important games.

[LDG]

Wenger "They are not ready to play this level"

Which suggests we don't have enough depth in squad. Which makes it even more odd that we didn't bring in more outfield players in the summer.

Not too bothered about losing a competition from our schedule, but the worry for me is the blatant disregard for preparation in team selection, and rookie mistakes. Theo didn't warm up??? What the fuck is that all about. If you don't care too much for the competition, it's not going to bother you unduly if you let one of your key players warm up for 5 minutes. Very unprofessional all round really.

Whilst it may not be a big competition, the prep and will to win should be apparent in every match. You can't select them. You have to put 100% every time. Fucking pissed off tbf.

Still, as one twitterer put it:

League Cup: Knock Spurs out; fuck it off.

[Marc Overmars]

. Debuchy for me is totally finished, what on earth has happened to him? Every performance from him this season has been horrible.


I remember Wenger saying last season how hard the injuries hit him mentally. Can't have been easy signing for us knowing you're first choice, only to get 2 serious injuries and because of that witness the emergence of Bellerin. Unfortunate but that's the way it goes sometimes in football.

It's probably best to sell him next year as Jenkinson should hopefully be ready to compete with Bellerin.

[selassie]

I remember Wenger saying last season how hard the injuries hit him mentally. Can't have been easy signing for us knowing you're first choice, only to get 2 serious injuries and because of that witness the emergence of Bellerin. Unfortunate but that's the way it goes sometimes in football.

It's probably best to sell him next year as Jenkinson should hopefully be ready to compete with Bellerin.

Aye, he was most definitely unfortunate last season as he genuinely looked very good in his early appearances for us prior to his injuries. He's not been the same since he's come back, he always looks a yard or two off the pace, Im beginning to wonder whether he has actually lost a bit of pace due to his injuries.

Shame really.

At the moment he offers practically no competition for Bellerin, if Bellerin was to get injured we would lose a hell of lot defensively and offensively if Debuchy had to cover.

I think he should be sold too, Jenko seems to be developing very well at West Ham.

[Munchies]

Seeing quite a few people say that Chambers at £16m is probably Wenger's worst signing :lol:

Is he that bad?

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger "They are not ready to play this level"

Which suggests we don't have enough depth in squad. Which makes it even more odd that we didn't bring in more outfield players in the summer.

Not too bothered about losing a competition from our schedule, but the worry for me is the blatant disregard for preparation in team selection, and rookie mistakes. Theo didn't warm up??? What the fuck is that all about. If you don't care too much for the competition, it's not going to bother you unduly if you let one of your key players warm up for 5 minutes. Very unprofessional all round really.

Whilst it may not be a big competition, the prep and will to win should be apparent in every match. You can't select them. You have to put 100% every time. Fucking pissed off tbf.

Still, as one twitterer put it:

League Cup: Knock Spurs out; fuck it off.

Agreed. Doesn't matter about the competition. Wenger spent the whole week claiming we needed to be "humble" and to remain focused. So what was this shit? These are all players hoping to play at the top level of the game. Some of them already do. Performances like this are totally unacceptable. Not the result, that can happen, but the PERFORMANCE. Wenger has never appreciated momentum doesn't give a shit about where, when or who - every match is there as an opportunity. Even if we came out of that losing we should have been able to say hey, we have a good bunch of lads there of we need them (which we probably will). Lack of preparation, disrespecting the competition and the opponent, all that has left us with is fear should we ever need to dip into the reserves. This was a blown opportunity and it's Wenger's fault. Praise was heaped on him for last week's performances, and rightly so, now it's fair he gets criticised for the pile of shit he served up last night.

[selassie]

Seeing quite a few people say that Chambers at £16m is probably Wenger's worst signing :lol:

Is he that bad?

He's showing no signs of improvement, 16m IMO is a fair bit of money for a CB, you are paying for potential quality, he's not even showing signs of that.

[Marc Overmars]

Seeing quite a few people say that Chambers at £16m is probably Wenger's worst signing :lol:

Is he that bad?

Prepared to give him time because he rarely plays but he's got to be showing more really to suggest he can be a long term option for us, 16m was of course overpriced but half of that is the English player tax. Time will tell whether we get value from him or not.

[Power n Glory]

I don't care for the result or the team selection. When I saw the midfield line up and Giroud, I just knew we weren't going to create chances for him. I'm more so concerned about the injuries. I could see Ox stretching seconds before kick off and then he pulls his hamstring. That suggests to me that we didn't spend enough time warming up or he didn't at least. Plus we lost Walcott and reports say Wenger cut his warm up short to throw him on. Silly decision to use him as a sub because the team lacked balance with that sub and he went off injured as well.

We just have to wait to hear what happens. Hope it's not too bad but that's 3 players we've had go out early in the game with muscle strain injuries. It's got to be down to poor preparation.

[Letters]

Meh.

Although I'm slightly irritated we got a thumping, we should have had enough to give them a game.
And the injuries are a kick in the pants, hopefully nothing too serious.

Couple of tricky games coming up, need to pick up and get a bit of momentum going again.

[Power n Glory]

I agree we had to rest our key players but disappointing that some of the back ups were so poor. I know its difficult with lack of playing time and a lot of inexperienced youngsters in the mix, but just how poor are the likes of Debuchy and Gibbs looking? No where near challenging Bellerin and Monreal on that showing. Giroud looked like a guy that had been told not to get injured (which thankfully he didn't). I cant understand how Chambers has regressed so badly since he came to us. Young players have ups and downs, but he looks further away than ever from being a first teamer.

It was a mixed bag but that backline have no excuses. They've all played together before. Giroud hardly touched the ball and Campbell might as well pack his bags. We had more experienced players on the pitch than kids and I think Wenger needs to have a serious word with them. The kids weren't up to par but they weren't helped.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

It was more like our 3rd or 4th XI out there so it's a bit harsh criticising our squad depth. No team can have 30 or so world class talents on their books.

I mean whilst the result ultimately doesn't matter and the lack of cohesion in creating any sort of attacking move shouldn't be a worry, what should be concerning are the individual defensive mistakes made by often senior pros which led to their goals - those were inexcusable whatever level you're playing against. Whilst we would have understandably struggled to create a goal last night, we shouldn't be gifting Sheffield Wednesday goals and making life easier for them. We should have parked the bus and let Sheffield Wednesday come on to us - that just comes to tactical naievity from Wenger and the management team.

As MS pointed out last night, the injury situation is untenable and back to being the usual ridiculous situation. Fact is that injuries do occur but the problem is that our capable backups such as Jack, Welbeck and Rosicky are all perm-crocks at the moment which is putting more strain on the first team players as they have to play more games and when they don't you get results like last night.

I mean what the fuck up is Welbeck? I don't remember him being a crock at United. He comes here, has a slight injury at the end of last season which was at the time only meant to be a few weeks and now nearly six months later, he's still out.

Whatever happens at the end of the season with regards to our title challenge, we can't go another season carrying so many injury crocks in our squad. It's not fair on the other players and that sadly means getting rid of Jack if a decent bid comes in.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Seeing quite a few people say that Chambers at £16m is probably Wenger's worst signing :lol:

Is he that bad?

He's been abject for us so far in any competitive game.

Though to be fair, he's still incredibly young in terms of defender years. Kosicienly at his age was struggling in the French third division and now look at him.

If comes down to having the right attitude and willingness to learn which he seems to have.

[Kano]

Wenger "They are not ready to play this level"

Which suggests we don't have enough depth in squad. Which makes it even more odd that we didn't bring in more outfield players in the summer.

Not too bothered about losing a competition from our schedule, but the worry for me is the blatant disregard for preparation in team selection, and rookie mistakes. Theo didn't warm up??? What the fuck is that all about. If you don't care too much for the competition, it's not going to bother you unduly if you let one of your key players warm up for 5 minutes. Very unprofessional all round really.

Whilst it may not be a big competition, the prep and will to win should be apparent in every match. You can't select them. You have to put 100% every time. Fucking pissed off tbf.

Still, as one twitterer put it:

League Cup: Knock Spurs out; fuck it off.

Re the Theo thing, I missed what happened as only saw some of the match. From what I heard at half time, he had to come off cold from the bench once Ox pulled up. That is often the case for early injuries, in that no-one expects them, the sub has to strip down and get on asap. Nearly all players in that circumstance do not then go off injured themselves 10 minutes later, I mean, how much running could Theo have really done in that period on the pitch anwyay? Walcott is just an accident waiting to happen, this is just his yearly break on the med table.

[Power n Glory]

Re the Theo thing, I missed what happened as only saw some of the match. From what I heard at half time, he had to come off cold from the bench once Ox pulled up. That is often the case for early injuries, in that no-one expects them, the sub has to strip down and get on asap. Nearly all players in that circumstance do not then go off injured themselves 10 minutes later, I mean, how much running could Theo have really done in that period on the pitch anwyay? Walcott is just an accident waiting to happen, this is just his yearly break on the med table.

You've been beating with this Theo injury prone story but ignoring the bigger picture. Bringing on a player from cold and using a senior player at that is a silly risk to take. But besides that fact, we've got 3 players out with muscle strains and all sustained in the first half. This is the 5th time in a row Ramsey has gone out with some sort of muscle strain injury, mainly hamstring since 2013/14 season. Why?

Ox hasn't been with the club long and he's already spent 359 days out injured. He hasn't played through a season without a lengthy lay off. Ozil has racked up more injuries for us in his entire playing career. He's not an injury prone player but I'd put money on him having some sort of muscle strain before the New Year. It's something to do with the club. There is no way we should be losing two players like that within 10 minutes.

[fakeyank]

Lets say Theo and Ox didnt play yesterday, what are the chances they wouldnt have bust up their hammy's this weekend? Theo didnt even play on the weekend and Ox started the weekend game after being a sub for many games. As for the warming up situation with Theo, I dont think thats a valid excuse. There are many times injuries to players have resulted in substitutions without much warm up... I dont recall such a fuss being made when the players dont get injured. I think this summer was a good time to have packed Theo's bags and got a replacement.. what a waste!

Frankly, I am sick and tired of injury prone players like Ox, Walcott, Rosicky and Wilshere. Heaven knows why we hold onto such liabilities for so long. The season is only 3 months old and if these fuckers are already dying, then an extra 4 days of rest wouldnt have made much difference. Somehow these very same players are given new glittering contracts year after year to do fuck all... Diaby is a prime example of this shitty policy. Offload these players and bring players who can play half a season at least!

[GP]

It's Theo's own responsibility to ensure he's prepared for the game. If he's thrown on at short notice, then he needs to make sure he doesn't over exert until he's sufficiently warmed up.

[Power n Glory]

Lets say Theo and Ox didnt play yesterday, what are the chances they wouldnt have bust up their hammy's this weekend? Theo didnt even play on the weekend and Ox started the weekend game after being a sub for many games. As for the warming up situation with Theo, I dont think thats a valid excuse. There are many times injuries to players have resulted in substitutions without much warm up... I dont recall such a fuss being made when the players dont get injured. I think this summer was a good time to have packed Theo's bags and got a replacement.. what a waste!

Frankly, I am sick and tired of injury prone players like Ox, Walcott, Rosicky and Wilshere. Heaven knows why we hold onto such liabilities for so long. The season is only 3 months old and if these fuckers are already dying, then an extra 4 days of rest wouldnt have made much difference. Somehow these very same players are given new glittering contracts year after year to do fuck all... Diaby is a prime example of this shitty policy. Offload these players and bring players who can play half a season at least!

:doh: Jheez! You guys really kill it.

[fakeyank]

Re the Theo thing, I missed what happened as only saw some of the match. From what I heard at half time, he had to come off cold from the bench once Ox pulled up. That is often the case for early injuries, in that no-one expects them, the sub has to strip down and get on asap. Nearly all players in that circumstance do not then go off injured themselves 10 minutes later, I mean, how much running could Theo have really done in that period on the pitch anwyay? Walcott is just an accident waiting to happen, this is just his yearly break on the med table.

:gp:

This is very true. Anyone who has played competitive football will know that your coach will tell you to ease yourself in (if you havent been able to warm up). And frankly I dont remember Theo doing anything worthwhile in that 10 minutes to blame it on the 'warm up'. Frankly in that 10 minutes, he was actually just warming up. Its not like we were peppering their goal. The fact is that he is a crock and his time is quickly running out.

[Kano]

You've been beating with this Theo injury prone story but ignoring the bigger picture. Bringing on a player from cold and using a senior player at that is a silly risk to take. But besides that fact, we've got 3 players out with muscle strains and all sustained in the first half. This is the 5th time in a row Ramsey has gone out with some sort of muscle strain injury, mainly hamstring since 2013/14 season. Why?

Ox hasn't been with the club long and he's already spent 359 days out injured. He hasn't played through a season without a lengthy lay off. Ozil has racked up more injuries for us in his entire playing career. He's not an injury prone player but I'd put money on him having some sort of muscle strain before the New Year. It's something to do with the club. There is no way we should be losing two players like that within 10 minutes.
I know I've been here before with you about this, so I'll repeat the same thing. I couldn't care less. I've been in and out of this injury argument over the years and because there isn't a single person that can come up with a definitive answer I don't have the energy for it any longer. Some can rely on memory to build an argument, others may use short term facts to show things are no longer as bad (http://www.arsenalreport.com/posts/injury-stats-massively-improved-from-last-year-forsythe-has-done-wonders?page=1). No one seems to know. All I care about is the bottom line. Theo? Good player but can never be a long term option, not even worth debating that point given his history. Last night is just another in a long line of break downs which will occur again and again.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

It's Theo's own responsibility to ensure he's prepared for the game. If he's thrown on at short notice, then he needs to make sure he doesn't over exert until he's sufficiently warmed up.

This.

Also it's hardly like Theo strenuously exerted himself in the few minutes he was on either. All I recall was him making a few minor runs before hobbling off. He's just a perma-crock. :doh:


Anyway, minor update - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11961050/Arsenal-news-Injured-Theo-Walcott-out-for-three-matches-including-Champions-League-clash-with-Bayern-Munich.html

The Telegraph says it was a minor calf strain and he's probably only going to miss three games. Won't be the end of the world if true.

Time for Giroud to step up.

[Power n Glory]

I know I've been here before with you about this, so I'll repeat the same thing. I couldn't care less. I've been in and out of this injury argument over the years and because there isn't a single person that can come up with a definitive answer I don't have the energy for it any longer. Some can rely on memory to build an argument, others may use short term facts to show things are no longer as bad (http://www.arsenalreport.com/posts/injury-stats-massively-improved-from-last-year-forsythe-has-done-wonders?page=1). No one seems to know. All I care about is the bottom line. Theo? Good player but can never be a long term option, not even worth debating that point given his history. Last night is just another in a long line of break downs which will occur again and again.


And we seem to be racking up a few more players with the same problems. They just haven't been at the club as long. It's a pattern throughout the squad and why we we're down to the bare bones.

[alexander]

The season is only 3 months old and if these fuckers are already dying

This actually made me, as the kids say `lol`.

True though.

[Kano]

And we seem to be racking up a few more players with the same problems. They just haven't been at the club as long. It's a pattern throughout the squad and why we we're down to the bare bones.

As I said, conflicting opinions that offer no insight at all. The bottom line is all I'm interested in.

[Power n Glory]

As I said, conflicting opinions that offer no insight at all. The bottom line is all I'm interested in.

The bottom line is we pick up a lot of injuries. That's a fact. We'll see who else falls this year to similar problems but players like Ozil and Sanchez start to fall you can understand why I'd buying different players won't solve this.

What's also strange is the fact that it's our British core players that we've had since their teens that are the most injury prone. Everything they have learned about conditioning and fitness have come from the Arsenal camp.

[Marc Overmars]

Sucks that Theo is going to miss the derby.

It's good that there is an international break in a couple weeks though, added time to recover.

[Kano]

The bottom line is we pick up a lot of injuries. That's a fact. We'll see who else falls this year to similar problems but players like Ozil and Sanchez start to fall you can understand why I'd buying different players won't solve this.

What's also strange is the fact that it's our British core players that we've had since their teens that are the most injury prone. Everything they have learned about conditioning and fitness have come from the Arsenal camp.

And yet that link suggests something very different. Sorry to say PNG, your stance isn't as definitive as you'd like to think. There are contractions on both sides of the argument. When I see a player like Theo continually falls apart, then he's done as far as I'm concerned.

[Power n Glory]

And yet that link suggests something very different. Sorry to say PNG, your stance isn't as definitive as you'd like to think. There are contractions on both sides of the argument. When I see a player like Theo continually falls apart, then he's done as far as I'm concerned.


So we don't have an injury problem with other players? Is this crisis imagined?

[Niall_Quinn]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/28/11/2DDF6EBB00000578-0-image-a-67_1446032692446.jpg

Here's that joke of a kit. What the hell does that have to do with Arsenal? The worst kit ever?

[mastermind84]

He's been abject for us so far in any competitive game.
Incredibly harsh

He was good against Spurs in the last round, ffs. Was decent in the Chelsea match after Gabriel was red carded too.

Anyone calling Chambers a flop can do one.

[Power n Glory]

Incredibly harsh

He was good against Spurs in the last round, ffs. Was decent in the Chelsea match after Gabriel was red carded too.

Anyone calling Chambers a flop can do one.

:lol: The irony.

[Niall_Quinn]

Busiest phase of the season coming up - most injuries we've had in a while. Now we'll find out if this squad is up for a title.

[mastermind84]

:lol: The irony.

It's irony saying a 19 year old who has been here for a season and ten games, and who actually played well the last round of the Carling Cup hasn't been a flop?

I wouldn't compare it to a 22 year old who has been here for 5 seasons and looks the same as he did when he arrived at 18, tbf.

If Chambers is still playing like this at 22 and I'm saying give him time, then that's irony but I guarantee you I won't.

[Penguin]

The worst kit ever?

Don't know about that... we've had some pretty bad kits down the years but it's definitely up there.

[Letters]

http://socqer.com/static_media/uploaded_images/0NV5ALQQWI_arsenal_1991.jpg

[Penguin]

It's irony saying a 19 year old who has been here for a season and ten games, and who actually played well the last round of the Carling Cup hasn't been a flop?

I wouldn't compare it to a 22 year old who has been here for 5 seasons and looks the same as he did when he arrived at 18, tbf.

If Chambers is still playing like this at 22 and I'm saying give him time, then that's irony but I guarantee you I won't.

So you'll wait until he hits the magical age of 22, the age when all good players have already proven themselves? By the way chambers is 21 in January so he's only a year and a half younger than Ox. So yeah it is a bit ironic.

I don't disagree with you about Chambers though. It's far too early to write him off. There's no need to get drawn into his price tag, he has shown a lot of promise for his age and the potential is there for him. That said, he has a LOT to learn. He doesn't look like a natural defender to me, his positioning, lack of awareness, and decision making are all poor. I hope he's putting in the hours to study the game because being good on the ball isn't enough when you haven't mastered the basics of your position. At the moment he's a long way away from our other three CBs and needs to get himself to a level where he can realistically challenge for a starting place.

[mastermind84]

So you'll wait until he hits the magical age of 22, the age when all good players have already proven themselves?

By the way chambers is 21 in January so he's only a year and a half younger than Ox. So yeah it is a bit ironic.
no, im giving him a few seasons to show his talent. Nothing to do with age, but the amount of years he has been at this club and chances he has gotten.

(i only said 22 because I though Chambers was 19. Point remains, give him a few seasons to show his level)



At the moment he's a long way away from our other three CBs and needs to get himself to a level where he can realistically challenge for a starting place.
this is the issue Im having when people are getting on Chambers. We have 3 very good CBs ahead of him. This wasnt the case a few years ago when we had not-yet-ready for primetime guys on the pitch messing up but learning. Give Chambers time.

[selassie]

no, im giving him a few seasons to show his talent. Nothing to do with age, but the amount of years he has been at this club and chances he has gotten.

(i only said 22 because I though Chambers was 19. Point remains, give him a few seasons to show his level)



this is the issue Im having when people are getting on Chambers. We have 3 very good CBs ahead of him. This wasnt the case a few years ago when we had not-yet-ready for primetime guys on the pitch messing up but learning. Give Chambers time.

Chambers showed promise early on but his development seems to have stalled. Maybe he should be loaned out to a PL club for a season or so he can hopefully get regular games under his belt.

I see parallels with his development like I did with Carl Jenkinson who I think is now developing into a very good right back.

I'm not going to write off Chambers yet because he is young, but he has a lot of improving to do, right now he cannot be trusted and we'll be in deep sh*t if 2 of our CB's get injured because Chambers is way off the standard required.

[fakeyank]

Chambers showed promise early on but his development seems to have stalled. Maybe he should be loaned out to a PL club for a season or so he can hopefully get regular games under his belt.

I see parallels with his development like I did with Carl Jenkinson who I think is now developing into a very good right back.

I'm not going to write off Chambers yet because he is young, but he has a lot of improving to do, right now he cannot be trusted and we'll be in deep sh*t if 2 of our CB's get injured because Chambers is way off the standard required.

We have little bit Monreal as well who can play CB

[selassie]

We have little bit Monreal as well who can play CB

:lol:

To be fair he did ok at CB last season, classic Wenger solution though.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Incredibly harsh

He was good against Spurs in the last round, ffs. Was decent in the Chelsea match after Gabriel was red carded too.

Anyone calling Chambers a flop can do one.

Ok maybe I was being too harsh however I don't think simply not making any calamitous mistakes which leads to goals in a game, means that he's had a good game. As Penguin alludes to, he always seems bereft awareness, positioning and general defender smarts whenever he's played ........... which is not all his fault, as Wenger has to take some blame for shifting him around the place.

I'm not saying get rid of course because he's talented and has a lot of potential (and is English), however he does need to knuckle down and work hard because he's a liability at the moment whenever he plays.

[Power n Glory]

It's irony saying a 19 year old who has been here for a season and ten games, and who actually played well the last round of the Carling Cup hasn't been a flop?

I wouldn't compare it to a 22 year old who has been here for 5 seasons and looks the same as he did when he arrived at 18, tbf.

If Chambers is still playing like this at 22 and I'm saying give him time, then that's irony but I guarantee you I won't.

Well, it's funny because the last time we spoke you suggested there was some sort of bias against non English players and the English go untouched. Low and behold.

It's silly for anyone to write him off at such a young age. As Penguin points out, he's actually 20 and will be 21 in January. Not far behind Ox. I don't see a problem with pointing out mistakes but it's harsh to write him off. It's harsh to write off any 22 year old. What 22 year old is consistent? That's my point about Ox and your criticism of him comes off the back off sporadic appearances. He's had seasons here but he's never had a long run in the team. Chambers will encounter the same sort of problems being a back up defender.

With mistakes being so costly for both players, Wenger has to make a decision where he keeps playing them at the cost of team and results in order to aid their development. He's done this with a lot of players and those that struggle to find form get a lot of slack. This is what I was talking about with Ramsey and Theo. Or Wenger can keep this bench to first team sporadic pattern going switching their positions and I hope they learn that way but that's not ideal because it's what they're going through now. Or we can loan them out. But again, I can't recall many players hitting consistent form at 22 regardless so it may be a waiting game.