Match Reaction: Bayern Munich 5 Arsenal 1

[Kano]

Yeah, well someone had to start this shit.

[Globalgunner]

Let me the first to say
Enough of this crap. Wenger Out!!

[Niall_Quinn]

WUMger - 19 years and still a million miles away. Shocking record.

The embarrassing effort this year - 100% down to him. Arrogant cock.

[Master Splinter]

When we were able to put our first XI out there, we thrashed them 2-0.

We've lost four first-teamers since then, plus they had the ref playing for them, so this result is pointless as long we win on Sunday.

Bif scored the goal of the game :bow:.

[hobson's choice]

Heh, less games for us, is definitely not a bad thing. All i care about is the league.

[selassie]

I thought we would lose but that was kind of embarrassing and could have been a lot worse. More worried about our mounting injuries and game on Sunday than CL TBH.

[Niall_Quinn]

Heh, less games for us, is definitely not a bad thing. All i care about is the league.

Not if we fall into The Europa League. That will mean more games for us, and goodbye PL.

[Kano]

We need to be in the Europa League.

We should know by now that concentrating on one competition doesn't benefit us. We've gone out in the first knock out stage of the CL for years now and gone onto win cups.

Cups are still are best chance of winning a trophy as one off games.

[Niall_Quinn]

We need to be in the Europa League.

We should know by now that concentrating on one competition doesn't benefit us. We've gone out in the first knock out stage of the CL for years now and gone into win cups.

Cups are still are best chance of winning a trophy as one off games.

WUMger would play Santi in goal if we got to the final.

[selassie]

We need to be in the Europa League.

We should know by now that concentrating on one competition doesn't benefit us. We've gone out in the first knock out stage of the CL for years now and gone onto win cups.

Cups are still are best chance of winning a trophy as one off games.

Agree with NQ, we go in the Europa and it's goodbye PL. We can't even field a proper team now with our injury list and it's like this every season. We don't have the squad to juggle Europa and PL, full of too many crocks.

[Marc Overmars]

We're just not very good in Europe. Didn't need a pasting tonight to tell you that.

Still got half a chance of going through but I'm not holding my breath.

[Kano]

Agree with NQ, we go in the Europa and it's goodbye PL. We can't even field a proper team now with our injury list and it's like this every season. We don't have the squad to juggle Europa and PL, full of too many crocks.
There are two more games in the Europa, one extra round. The same as an FA Cup replay or two. It's a complete fallacy to think we will concentrate on the league and manage ourselves well enough in that. We need as many options as possible given our manager.

[Niall_Quinn]

When we were able to put our first XI out there, we thrashed them 2-0.

We've lost four first-teamers since then, plus they had the ref playing for them, so this result is pointless as long we win on Sunday.

Bif scored the goal of the game :bow:.

Ref was utterly incompetent (which purely coincidentally meant him giving Bayern every single decision) until 4-0. Then suddenly he could ref again. What an amazing recovery. Nothing at all suspicious about his performance.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Fuck it. Next game please.

[Ernesto]

I just don't like the idea of Europa in that you're delayed in the league by a day. Man City could be the pacesetters on the Saturday and we have all the pressure of catching them up on the Sunday.

We all know how Wenger copes with pressure.

[Letters]

Ref was utterly incompetent (which purely coincidentally meant him giving Bayern every single decision) until 4-0. Then suddenly he could ref again. What an amazing recovery. Nothing at all suspicious about his performance.

So why give Wenger such a hammering :shrug:
We were away against pretty much the best team in Europe and from what you're saying the ref was giving them everything.

We shouldn't be getting hammered like that though against anyone.

[Ernesto]

However, if we do finish second in this group and get into the knockout stages, I think it will top that night in the San Siro (there, I said it)

[Master Splinter]

Ref was utterly incompetent (which purely coincidentally meant him giving Bayern every single decision) until 4-0. Then suddenly he could ref again. What an amazing recovery. Nothing at all suspicious about his performance.

The best bit was when Mertesacker just hauled down Robben towards the end and the ref got on with it.

But when the game was on the line early on, he booked Campbell for being in the same post code as Costa.

[Kano]

I just don't like the idea of Europa in that you're delayed in the league by a day. Man City could be the pacesetters on the Saturday and we have all the pressure of catching them up on the Sunday.

We all know how Wenger copes with pressure.

Remember we've looked good at this stage before. Let's see where we are come March and whether we rue not having a pop at the Europa as our PL has gone down the toilet once again. This is very early days in the league, not an indicator for where we'll finish come the end of the season.

[Kano]

So why give Wenger such a hammering :shrug:
We were away against pretty much the best team in Europe and from what you're saying the ref was giving them everything.

We shouldn't be getting hammered like that though against anyone.


Bayern can do that against anyone when on form. Not forgiving our failings today but they can make a very good team look like amateurs.

[Niall_Quinn]

There are two more games in the Europa, one extra round. The same as an FA Cup replay or two. It's a complete fallacy to think we will concentrate on the league and manage ourselves well enough in that. We need as many options as possible given our manager.

But the games are on a Thursday night in Shithole Creek, huge difference. One less day recovery than all our opponents. Game over. This squad can barely handle what we have, in fact it can't even do that. We're in a shit state and the Dropout League will be the shit icing. And anyway - aren't we supposed to be up there with the elite of European football? That fucker who gets paid £3mill for his advice better start with the suggestions because we're deep in shit now. Better get his fucking crusty old, faded chequebook out in January.

[Niall_Quinn]

So why give Wenger such a hammering :shrug:
We were away against pretty much the best team in Europe and from what you're saying the ref was giving them everything.

We shouldn't be getting hammered like that though against anyone.

Because everything Wenger did from start to finish was pure shit and he served us up another embarrassing Euro night again, which he specialises in.

[Letters]

This is very early days in the league, not an indicator for where we'll finish come the end of the season.
:lol:

You're right of course but after the West Ham game and the somewhat patchy start I was saying the exact same thing and was endlessly WUMmed about it.

[selassie]

There are two more games in the Europa, one extra round. The same as an FA Cup replay or two. It's a complete fallacy to think we will concentrate on the league and manage ourselves well enough in that. We need as many options as possible given our manager.

I personally think the league is the only competition we can manage if we are competing for it this year. I don't believe we could manage Europa on Thursday and then league games over the weekend. If everyone is fit then yes we have the squad, everyone is never fit though, it's not like these muscular injuries are one-offs, we face this problem every single season and more often than not it's the same set of players out injured throughout the season. I don't even know why Wenger is surprised, Walcott, Ramsey, Wilshere, OX, Rosicky & Arteta always miss large chunks of the season, they have done for a while now. Take them out and our squad options are decimated.

[Niall_Quinn]

I just don't like the idea of Europa in that you're delayed in the league by a day. Man City could be the pacesetters on the Saturday and we have all the pressure of catching them up on the Sunday.

We all know how Wenger copes with pressure.

Is that true - we always play Sunday if we are playing on Thu? Not so bad then. But still a giant humiliation.

[Özim]

Another embarrassing thrashing, seems to have become a fairly reguar thing under Wenger, before he arrived we very very rarely even lost by more than three goals.

He can't hack in in Europe let's face it, decades of failing shows that, we beat them 2-0 at home but it means very little if we can't consolidate that with a good performance away.

Disappointing but no real surprise.

[Letters]

Bayern can do that against anyone when on form. Not forgiving our failings today but they can make a very good team look like amateurs.

They can. Losing there is no disgrace but we could have done without a hammering.
It's all about the league this season, for me. What we have to do is avoid the dreaded 3rd place and Europa League.

[Kano]

But the games are on a Thursday night in Shithole Creek, huge difference. One less day recovery than all our opponents. Game over. This squad can barely handle what we have, in fact it can't even do that. We're in a shit state and the Dropout League will be the shit icing. And anyway - aren't we supposed to be up there with the elite of European football? That fucker who gets paid £3mill for his advice better start with the suggestions because we're deep in shit now. Better get his fucking crusty old, faded chequebook out in January.
Those obscure games happen in the group stage but the better teams in mainland Europe get through and the destinations become more normal. Thurs/Sun, Weds/Sat, what's the difference? We can kid ourselves we are up there with the elite and keep getting knocked out by the real elite every year, or go for a trophy we can win. And a trophy we'd enjoy. Beating Birmingham a few years back wouldn't exactly have been '71 all over again but enjoyable none the less for the silverware. We are absolutely kidding ourselves if we think that all our eggs in one basket will improve Wenger's management of the squad. We are built for cups not long campaigns.

[Niall_Quinn]

Those obscure games happen in the group stage but the better teams in mainland Europe get through and the destinations become more normal. Thurs/Sun, Weds/Sat, what's the difference? We can kid ourselves we are up there with the elite and keep getting knocked out by the real elite every year, or go for a trophy we can win. And a trophy we'd enjoy. Beating Birmingham a few years back wouldn't exactly have been '71 all over again but enjoyable none the less for the silverware. We are absolutely kidding ourselves if we think that all our eggs in one basket will improve Wenger's management of the squad. We are built for cups not long campaigns.

Just get rid of Wenger. That's the only way we'll be genuinely in for a serious trophy.

[Kano]

I personally think the league is the only competition we can manage if we are competing for it this year. I don't believe we could manage Europa on Thursday and then league games over the weekend. If everyone is fit then yes we have the squad, everyone is never fit though, it's not like these muscular injuries are one-offs, we face this problem every single season and more often than not it's the same set of players out injured throughout the season. I don't even know why Wenger is surprised, Walcott, Ramsey, Wilshere, OX, Rosicky & Arteta always miss large chunks of the season, they have done for a while now. Take them out and our squad options are decimated.

But where has this illusion come from? Being second in early November? We should all know how many times we've seen this. Nothing has created our downfall in the league before now. We've had no extended CL runs, always out in the next round. Just two extra games. So all we've had is the PL to concentrate on for years and where has that got us? We can't talk about cotton wool around our players to save them for some mystical glory run in the league when there is nothing to say the exact same thing won't happen again. Just go for whatever we can because otherwise we are just narrowing our own chances of success, star struck by early season form that has burnt us for years on end.

[Letters]

Another embarrassing thrashing, seems to have become a fairly reguar thing under Wenger, before he arrived we very very rarely even lost by more than three goals.

We haven't had a thrashing for a couple of seasons :rolleyes:

At least you're happy again now you've got something to whine about, it's noticeable how little you've posted here in our good run, one bad result and you can't wait to log on again.

[Niall_Quinn]

They can. Losing there is no disgrace but we could have done without a hammering.
It's all about the league this season, for me. What we have to do is avoid the dreaded 3rd place and Europa League.

Getting raped on live TV by a bunch of Germans out for a stroll is slightly disgraceful, maybe, perhaps. Never dignified to be left with your pants around your ankles and a bloody anus, very tricky to look professional under those circumstances.

[Kano]

Just get rid of Wenger. That's the only way we'll be genuinely in for a serious trophy.

There's always that. New contract I read the other day.

[Niall_Quinn]

But where has this illusion come from? Being second in early November? We should all know how many times we've seen this. Nothing has created our downfall in the league before now. We've had no extended CL runs, always out in the next round. Just two extra games. So all we've had is the PL to concentrate on for years and where has that got us? We can't talk about cotton wool around our players to save them for some mystical glory run in the league when there is nothing to say the exact same thing won't happen again. Just go for whatever we can because otherwise we are just narrowing our own chances of success, star struck by early season form that has burnt us for years on end.

I think by winning the league people mean not being 14 points behind by Christmas. I don't think anyone seriously envisages us finishing top in May. Too many ways to fuck up and Wenger has mastered all of them. But maybe if we have absolutely zero distractions, and I think WUMger has already shown he can chuck a game when he fancies it, we may, just may have something to still be interested in during the run-in. If we have any players left. Got to keep the little blighters in cotton wool as much as possible.

[Kano]

They can. Losing there is no disgrace but we could have done without a hammering.
It's all about the league this season, for me. What we have to do is avoid the dreaded 3rd place and Europa League.

Of course but given the regularity of them thrashing teams, it was always on the cards. Even with our very best eleven out there it was less likely to happen but I think all Arsenal fans feared an absolute pasting. Which is exactly what we got. I think the fans can wash it out quickly enough because we had such low expectations. We'll soon see how the players deal with it on Sunday.

[Niall_Quinn]

There's always that. New contract I read the other day.

Yep. The bean counters have a turn of pace when they smell fresh cash opportunities. Strike while the fans are distracted by a few wins.

[Letters]

Getting raped on live TV by a bunch of Germans out for a stroll is slightly disgraceful, maybe, perhaps. Never dignified to be left with your pants around your ankles and a bloody anus, very tricky to look professional under those circumstances.

It was a bad one but look at their home record, they've won every game and in most of them scored 4 or 5 goals.
They're quite good, we've got a bunch of injuries and from what you've said the ref was giving them everything.
The important things are we don't drop into the Europa League and this result doesn't affect our league form.
The PL is more realistic than the CL, if we keep in touch like we have so far then I'll believe we have a chance.

[rodders]

The result and performance shames not only the club but our country. Seemingly the only one who cares about results rather than finances is the Russian who is Persona non Gratta with the hierarchy.

[Kano]

I think by winning the league people mean not being 14 points behind by Christmas. I don't think anyone seriously envisages us finishing top in May. Too many ways to fuck up and Wenger has mastered all of them. But maybe if we have absolutely zero distractions, and I think WUMger has already shown he can chuck a game when he fancies it, we may, just may have something to still be interested in during the run-in. If we have any players left. Got to keep the little blighters in cotton wool as much as possible.

But in reality, come on, we've had none in the past. Two extra CL games against opposition we know we aren't going to beat and then back to the PL again. We've had no real distractions beyond the CL group stage for some time. We've been in good positions around Xmas, Jan/Feb, Knocked out of the CL, a clear road ahead and gone to shit. I just don't see how the cotton wool theory works for us. We pick up injuries no matter what, so we may as well just say fuck it and keep our options open. We got to the CL with a reserve back four, so I can't see the Europa as beyond our squad.

[Marc Overmars]

I will be swiftly forgetting this result should we win the derby. Don't even try to fuck that one up WUMger.

[Niall_Quinn]

But in reality, come on, we've had none in the past. Two extra CL games against opposition we know we aren't going to beat and then back to the PL again. We've had no real distractions beyond the CL group stage for some time. We've been in good positions around Xmas, Jan/Feb, Knocked out of the CL, a clear road ahead and gone to shit. I just don't see how the cotton wool theory works for us. We pick up injuries no matter what, so we may as well just say fuck it and keep our options open. We got to the CL with a reserve back four, so I can't see the Europa as beyond our squad.

Cotton wool is to smother the useless bastards so Kronky the Klown has to buy some more. Maybe ones that don't break so easily.

Anyway, it's nights like these that snap you back to reality and make you realise Wenger simply doesn't have what it takes to prevail when the challenge is at its fiercest. You're right. Injuries, no injuries. Europa League, no Europa League. Wenger will fuck it up. It's what he does.

[Niall_Quinn]

I will be swiftly forgetting this result should we win the derby. Don't even try to fuck that one up WUMger.

On a scale of Must Win to (Don't Even Come Back Here If You Don't Win) Must Win, Sunday is a (Shoot Yourself In the Fucking Head if You Don't Win) Must Win.

[-Xs-]

Not too bothered about this one. Was always going to be a big task and then throw the injuries into the mix and it becomes the kind of result anyone could have predicted

Shame but bollocks to it, back to the league. Fingers crossed we have some players back for the spuds, apparently Bellerin will still be out though so that's a bit shit.

[Marc Overmars]

Apparently we have conceded the most goals (97) of any team in the CL over the past 10 seasons. :lol:

[fakeyank]

The sad part is not the result, but the inevitability of it. We are 'supposed' to be among the elite of Europe and here we are not even giving a shit about a result like this. That is how much the board and our manager have fucked us over. One of the highest ticket prices in the world, and this is what you get in return. We are like the Aston Villa, Sunderland, Newcastle etc of European football.

Pathetic! :ilt:

[Niall_Quinn]

Apparently we have conceded the most goals (97) of any team in the CL over the past 10 seasons. :lol:

Yeah but how many clubs have qualified 10 years running? Misleading stat. 9.7 goals per year isn't that bad really considering we usually reach the last 16.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

meh, not really fussed at all about the result. If we go out of Europe, it won't be because of tonight but the two appalling results against Zagreb and Olympiakos. Mind you I still think we'll qualify as Olympiakos are shit and we can easily win by 2 goals in Greece with our first team.

Campbell was poor defensively, left Debauchy exposed too much and he struggled as a result. Worrying with the NLD coming up and neither The OX, Bellerin or Ramsey back by then. Other than that, simply too many other individual errors which a team like Bayern who were hurt after the losing at the Emirates, were determined to punish ruthlessly and so they did. Gabriel at fault for the first, BFG for the second and Santi for the third.

We could have made it closer with a fully fit first team, but they're just better than us and easily the best team in Europe at the moment. They'll thrash many a team at the Allianz, let alone a team that's tired, injury depleted and pissed them off a fortnight ago.

On to the NLD. Now that's a game I'll actually get annoyed at if we don't pick up three points.

[Maestro]

So if Olympiakos get a point against Zagreb they're through, is that correct?

On another note, there's no way I can see us winning the Europa league. We'll get the shock of our lives in that tournament, what with the number of games, the travelling and facing some hardened grimy sides that don't give a fuck about reputation. They'll love the prospect of taking our scalp, with poxy players scoring their first ever goals against us etc.

Bottom line, this is a real mess and all the making of ours truly .....the ultimate Wumtroll Wenget.
Meh

Anyway do we reckon Sanchez to Bayern next season?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Olympiakos play Bayern, not Zagreb but yes, they just need a point.

[AFC Leveller]

https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11221880_459560114249589_283701341733267449_n.jpg? oh=76142b4a08741dadac9e478a3c78e484&oe=56BE304C

[Globalgunner]

Olympiakos play Bayern, not Zagreb but yes, they just need a point.

They need a point in their 2 remaining games against us and Bayern. We need them to lose both and we win our 2 games against Zagreb and Olympiakos beating Olympiakos by at least 2 goals

eminently feasible, but to what end. We will get RM in the next round and have our arses handed to us again.

[Kano]

My Chilean colleague had a photo taken next to an official replica of the Europa trophy at a trade show on Tuesday, 'twas a sign.

[selassie]

But where has this illusion come from? Being second in early November? We should all know how many times we've seen this. Nothing has created our downfall in the league before now. We've had no extended CL runs, always out in the next round. Just two extra games. So all we've had is the PL to concentrate on for years and where has that got us? We can't talk about cotton wool around our players to save them for some mystical glory run in the league when there is nothing to say the exact same thing won't happen again. Just go for whatever we can because otherwise we are just narrowing our own chances of success, star struck by early season form that has burnt us for years on end.

Fair point, but with Chelsea out of the picture for now..and I would assume for the season it gives us one less team to worry about.

I personally think this season is our best chance of a proper crack at the title. We need a fit and healthy squad which we don't have at the moment and I just think adding a distraction of the Europa League would just complicate thing for us.

I do see where you are coming from and our previous collapses have been as you described, but we have our strongest squad in years IMO, it's just all about managing them and ensuring we don't get hit with these recurring muscular injuries.

My opinion is that we are in deep shit right now with injuries and unless we get bodies back I think the collapse may well start now.

[Niall_Quinn]

So the game we are taking for granted is the next one against Zagreb?

[Power n Glory]

I think they need to scrap the whole idea of teams from the CL qualifying for the Europa League once knocked out of the CL. Cheapens the competition and even if we qualify and win the trophy at the end, I won't really feel proud of it. Might as well be out of Europe all together.

[selassie]

I think they need to scrap the whole idea of teams from the CL qualifying for the Europa League once knocked out of the CL. Cheapens the competition and even if we qualify and win the trophy at the end, I won't really feel proud of it. Might as well be out of Europe all together.

Me too. Despite that I think a lot of folks are really underestimating the Europa League, there are some very good teams in it this season, CL level teams like Dortmund, Napoli, Villareal, Ajax & Basle, aswell as domestic rivals like Liverpool and Spuds. If we end up in it we have no guarantees of winning it. I'd have Dortmund down as the favourites even if we enter it, they have been very good this season.

[Letters]

eminently feasible, but to what end. We will get RM in the next round and have our arses handed to us again.

Maybe, better than dropping into the Europa League though.
Either finish 2nd or 4th, not 3rd.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Olympiakos play Bayern, not Zagreb but yes, they just need a point.

I'd like to think that Pep and Bayern are professional enough to not throw that match, especially in Munich. They probably need the 3 points to be assured of top place as it is. Just thankful it isn't a Mourinho team because he would duplicitous enough to throw a match just to spite ..... the greasy cunt.

As for the UEFA cup, there's no shame if you end up winning the thing outright ..... I'm sure Chelsea fans weren't ashamed or any less overjoyed when they won the thing a few years ago. However, obviously with a PL run on the horizon the best strategy would to use our reserves/kids up until the semi final stages (if we get that far) before having a right go at it with our first team.

Anyway it's all academic as I still believe we'll squeeze through. Like always finishing in the top four, I don't think this record from Wenger (always qualifying) is about to be broken just yet.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

eminently feasible, but to what end. We will get RM in the next round and have our arses handed to us again.

Thing is, the first Bayern result shows that with a fully fit first team, we can give anyone in Europe a good match if we're up for it.

Even though their top of La liga at the moment, I don't think RM under the fat Spanish waiter are as good as a Bayern or a Messi inspired Barca team and are definitely beatable if we get our tactics right.

Also, the year Liverpool won it outright they barely scrapped through the group with a screamer from Gerrard in the last minute of the last game. Anything can happen once you're in the knock off stages. There's no need to wave the white flags just yet.

[LDG]

My anger was all spent on those first two, very winnable games. That is the issue, not last night (though getting spanked was a bit embarrassing).

We showed what we can do in the home tie, but it was never going to be an easy game in Bayern. We all would have expected a loss there, even if we'd won every other game. It doesn't excuse the poor defending last night in the slightest, but as far as give a fucks go, I long since stopped giving a fuck about this competition.

I'll be livid if we turn up unprepared on Sunday though.

[Marc Overmars]

I think we'll bounce back on Sunday. Afterall the Olympiakos defeat was more humiliating than this and we followed that up by beating United.

The only way failure in the CL is going to wash is if we continue to be consistent in the league and pick up big results along the way as well. Don't be surprised if we sack off the FA Cup too, WUMger wants the league because he knows he might not get a better chance.

[LDG]

I think we'll bounce back on Sunday. Afterall the Olympiakos defeat was more humiliating than this and we followed that up by beating United.

The only way failure in the CL is going to wash is if we continue to be consistent in the league and pick up big results along the way as well. Don't be surprised if sack off the FA Cup as well, WUMger wants the league because he knows he might not get a better chance.

I think so too. It's quite transparent really. He's really hedging his bets though.

He knows we can't compete in all of the comps at top level, but by throwing it all at the league, he's playing with fire, given our injury rate.

If he really wants the league, he'll have to spend in January.

[Power n Glory]

Me too. Despite that I think a lot of folks are really underestimating the Europa League, there are some very good teams in it this season, CL level teams like Dortmund, Napoli, Villareal, Ajax & Basle, aswell as domestic rivals like Liverpool and Spuds. If we end up in it we have no guarantees of winning it. I'd have Dortmund down as the favourites even if we enter it, they have been very good this season.

That's partly why I think the rule devalues the competition. It won't be easy to win but it doesn't get that much respect and I think it's partly down to CL rejects.

[Marc Overmars]

If he really wants the league, he'll have to spend in January.

Wilshere and Welbeck will be like new signings.

[Letters]

I think we'll bounce back on Sunday. Afterall the Olympiakos defeat was more humiliating than this and we followed that up by beating United.

The only way failure in the CL is going to wash is if we continue to be consistent in the league and pick up big results along the way as well. Don't be surprised if we sack off the FA Cup too, WUMger wants the league because he knows he might not get a better chance.

Aye. I'm disappointed we got such a humping but it's all about the league for me this season. We've been looking good of late, keep up there and I think we have a chance.

[Marc Overmars]

That's partly why I think the rule devalues the competition. It won't be easy to win but it doesn't get that much respect and I think it's partly down to CL rejects.

I've always thought it should mirror the CL by having 32 teams and 32 teams only. Might add some prestige by making it more exclusive and most importantly would do away with the perception of it being a bloated competition.

[Bumble]

Expected us to lose. And it doesn't really make much difference to qualifying. Bayern still need to win to guarantee top of the group so they will beat Olympiakos and that leaves us to do it in Greece. and Wenger when it really really matters to stay in/qualify for the Champions League we pull it out of the bag.

Robben is a horrible type of player but I do wish we had him. I think he would add so much to the team plus our penalty count would go up.

[Kano]

Fair point, but with Chelsea out of the picture for now..and I would assume for the season it gives us one less team to worry about.

I personally think this season is our best chance of a proper crack at the title. We need a fit and healthy squad which we don't have at the moment and I just think adding a distraction of the Europa League would just complicate thing for us.

I do see where you are coming from and our previous collapses have been as you described, but we have our strongest squad in years IMO, it's just all about managing them and ensuring we don't get hit with these recurring muscular injuries.

My opinion is that we are in deep shit right now with injuries and unless we get bodies back I think the collapse may well start now.

There will be some strong sides left in the competition but I think we are the equal if not better than most of them and that gives us a greater chance of winning it than the CL where the top 3 - Bayern/Real/Barca are leagues ahead of everyone.

Aside from any logic I try to prescribe to my argument, I also just want to see us have a good go at a European competition. I want to see how we fare against teams from other countries, instead of the same shit in the PL every season. The Europa is derided in the UK but that is by the same media who preach this is The Best League In The World©. The same press who have lauded Rooney and the England team ahead of countless tournaments. It's just good old English arrogance on our island, looking down at everyone else, deluded in our own bubble. On the continent it is treated with more respect, despite the drop-ins from the CL and if we reach the semi/final then I guarantee interest from our fans would change. 1994, 1995, 2000 and 2006 - added to our threadbare history in Europe means we are missing a key link in growing the clubs stature. If we can't do it in the CL - which has become clear enough under Wenger - then we should at least do it in the next best thing.

[GP]

See, here's the thing - I don't really want to be in the Europa League. But if we do drop into it, I really, really want to win it.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Last night proved that whilst we have a first XI that can take on anyone, we have an atrociously weak squad

We've ruined Debuchy, we are hoping that lighting strikes twice with Campbell (turns out to be another Coquelin) and we are beasting our players

I am disappointed how easily we wilted but I don't think any of us seriously expected a positive result last night.

We have a big wage bill, far too big to house the dross that we do.

It all points to a manager who just isn't proactive, doesn't innovate or try to change his methods.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

See, here's the thing - I don't really want to be in the Europa League. But if we do drop into it, I really, really want to win it.

Yeah pretty much

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Wilshere and Welbeck will be like new signings.

You mean take ages to gel and get injured when they get into a run of good form?

[Power n Glory]

We have a serious fitness issue. We lost two more of our top performers before that game. This has to be addressed. We can’t always be this unlucky and we can’t have a team full of crocks. Bellerin’s fresh out of the academy for crying out loud.

[Letters]

Last night proved that whilst we have a first XI that can take on anyone, we have an atrociously weak squad
Hmm. I'm not sure being thumped away by Bayern shows much. Their home record so far this season (not including last night) is:

5-0
3-0
2-1
5-1
5-1
4-0
5-0

That's 29 goals in 7 games before last night, it's an average of more than 4. It's pretty impressive.
Our squad could be stronger, although I don't think it's that bad, but I can't agree that losing away to a side who have won every home game so far this season by an average of more than 4 goals demonstrates it's 'atrociously weak'

[Niall_Quinn]

Hmm. I'm not sure being thumped away by Bayern shows much.

:doh:

[Marc Overmars]

See, here's the thing - I don't really want to be in the Europa League. But if we do drop into it, I really, really want to win it.

Plus it would be hilarious considering Spurs have been trying for a decade and not gone anywhere close to winning it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Plus it would be hilarious considering Spurs have been trying for a decade and not gone anywhere close to winning it.

That sold me. Beat them on Sunday and knock them out of the Europa League. Knock them out of the FA Cup too. We already knocked them out of the WhateverItsCalledNow Cup. Finish above them in the league.

Where do I sign up?

[Letters]

:doh:

Yeah. Probably best to ignore the rest of my post, otherwise you might have to form a coherent argument

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Honestly, apart from Flamini and if you're harsh Arteta (both likely to leave in the summer), we don't have any actual dross on the books. Gone are the days of Gervinho, Diaby, Denilson, Bendtner, Chamkah etc all substandard and picking up wages for doing nothing. In terms of quality, the squad's in the best shape it's ever been in.

The problem as P&G points out is a fitness one and relying on consistently injury prone players like Theo, Rosicky and Jack. Like I said on another thread, regardless of whatever happens this season we can't go on relying on these guys to mount a multi front trophy campaign across a season. It's ridiculous and not fair on the other players and so if a good offer comes in for Jack next summer we should seriously consider it.

That and the fact that Bayern are fucking good and had a vendetta to settle last night.

[Niall_Quinn]

Probably best to ignore the rest of my post

:gp:

[Letters]

Honestly, apart from Flamini and if you're harsh Arteta (both likely to leave in the summer), we don't have any actual dross on the books. Gone are the days of Gervinho, Diaby, Denilson, Bendtner, Chamkah etc all substandard and picking up wages for doing nothing. In terms of quality, the squad's in the best shape it's ever been in.

The problem as P&G points out is a fitness one and relying on consistently injury prone players like Theo, Rosicky and Jack. Like I said on another thread, regardless of whatever happens this season we can't go on relying on these guys to mount a multi front trophy campaign across a season. It's ridiculous and not fair on the other players and so if a good offer comes in for Jack next summer we should seriously consider it.

That and the fact that Bayern are fucking good and had a vendetta to settle last night.

Pretty much :good:

Losing heavily at Bayern with our injury list tells us as much about our squad as had we played Barnet and won comfortably.
Even our first choice players would have struggled there, they're hammering everyone at home this season, although I reckon we could have given them more of a game.
Our squad is pretty decent right now but we are over-reliant on a few key players, if Sanchez or Ozil get injured, even Giroud who has been scoring plenty this season then we're going to struggle. We have to do something about these persistent injury problems.

[Power n Glory]

Honestly, apart from Flamini and if you're harsh Arteta (both likely to leave in the summer), we don't have any actual dross on the books. Gone are the days of Gervinho, Diaby, Denilson, Bendtner, Chamkah etc all substandard and picking up wages for doing nothing. In terms of quality, the squad's in the best shape it's ever been in.

The problem as P&G points out is a fitness one and relying on consistently injury prone players like Theo, Rosicky and Jack. Like I said on another thread, regardless of whatever happens this season we can't go on relying on these guys to mount a multi front trophy campaign across a season. It's ridiculous and not fair on the other players and so if a good offer comes in for Jack next summer we should seriously consider it.

That and the fact that Bayern are fucking good and had a vendetta to settle last night.

Yeah, I don't think we have a bad squad full of wasters. Injuries are really hurting us. We may have to sell the players who have no hope of staying fit if it comes to that but I worry we'll just end up with the same problems further down the road. We have to figure out what's going on in training. The young players we've raised shouldn't be picking up so many injuries. We need to get to the bottom of this otherwise we'll always have this problem regardless of who we sell or buy.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's the manager. Same story with him.

Bayern were the favourites last night for a number of reasons. But the way we went out there, totally unprepared, no tactics, no reaction when it was plain we were in for a hiding playing that way. That's all on the manager. He's playing scared and then shuffling the blame around when his gutless attitude seeps into the team. Kos is supposedly injured, but not injured enough to be left at home. Then Wenger criticises the defending. He already knew we lost Bellerin without the kid even kicking a ball, so what is he saving Kos for? A training injury before the spuds game? Who knows, but why was he on the bench if he wasn't fit? Leave him at home or play him, make a damn decision. Gutless. Wenger gutless against Zagreb, too afraid to piss the #2 keeper off. Gutless against the Greeks, repeats his stupid mistake and it costs us. Gutless in the cup and gets a hiding from Sheff Wed - roll out more excuses. Excuses, excuses. The injuries, the defence, the attack lacking sharpness, being tired, excuses, excuses. How many years of excuses now for all those games in the CL he's fucked up? He's out of his depth in this competition, so scared of it he doesn't believe we can ever win it. Saving up his resources he loses at the drop of a hat anyway, pointless resting and rotation and all for what? No way are we winning the PL with a gutless guy in charge. It's a nice idea but we aren't at Christmas yet but still all the old Wenger frailties are on full display. Sure, it's a tough game against Bayern on their own patch. But taking a beating like that and playing like that? It's shameful - like the manager's record in Europe.

[Xhaka Can’t]

We haven't had a thrashing for a couple of seasons :rolleyes:

At least you're happy again now you've got something to whine about, it's noticeable how little you've posted here in our good run, one bad result and you can't wait to log on again.
I vaguely remember the guy.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

[Ollie the Optimist]

For me, and I've held this belief since the start of the season, the league is a better and more important trophy to win this year then Europe. Don't get me wrong, I would love to win the champions league, but the league would mean so much more given we would have to perform at a high level for the whole season. Champions league is ultimately a cup competition where you can play badly and still win it (chelsea in 2012). The game last night wasn't a surprise we lost, but it was a shame we lost so heavily, however at half time i would have taken off Ozil and Sanchez, we need them for the league, no point wasting them in a dead half of football.

I thought for the first half we played well, Ozil looked superb to start with and his goal should have stood. I think we still would have lost, but his goal came off his shoulder and it should have stood, the referee overall was suspect. Campbell was booked and 5 minutes later Lahm makes an identical tackle and nothing given. Bayern are the best team in the world right now, they have thrashed many a good team over the last few seasons. If we win the league, and i really think we can and probably will, then no one will care about these games.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Another embarrassing thrashing, seems to have become a fairly reguar thing under Wenger, before he arrived we very very rarely even lost by more than three goals.

He can't hack in in Europe let's face it, decades of failing shows that, we beat them 2-0 at home but it means very little if we can't consolidate that with a good performance away.

Disappointing but no real surprise.


I can actually see you posting this when we win the league.

"we won the league but it means nothing if we can't consolidate that by winning in europe too"

[Maestro]

Me too. Despite that I think a lot of folks are really underestimating the Europa League, there are some very good teams in it this season, CL level teams like Dortmund, Napoli, Villareal, Ajax & Basle, aswell as domestic rivals like Liverpool and Spuds. If we end up in it we have no guarantees of winning it. I'd have Dortmund down as the favourites even if we enter it, they have been very good this season.

This

we will get thumped in the Europa league if you ask me

[Niall_Quinn]

For me, and I've held this belief since the start of the season, the league is a better and more important trophy to win this year then Europe. Don't get me wrong, I would love to win the champions league, but the league would mean so much more given we would have to perform at a high level for the whole season. Champions league is ultimately a cup competition where you can play badly and still win it (chelsea in 2012). The game last night wasn't a surprise we lost, but it was a shame we lost so heavily, however at half time i would have taken off Ozil and Sanchez, we need them for the league, no point wasting them in a dead half of football.

I thought for the first half we played well, Ozil looked superb to start with and his goal should have stood. I think we still would have lost, but his goal came off his shoulder and it should have stood, the referee overall was suspect. Campbell was booked and 5 minutes later Lahm makes an identical tackle and nothing given. Bayern are the best team in the world right now, they have thrashed many a good team over the last few seasons. If we win the league, and i really think we can and probably will, then no one will care about these games.

It's not the result, it's the manner of the performance. The absence of any method from the manager to try and deal with adversity. And it came on the heels of another tragic performance in the Carling Cup. Doesn't matter much if we are in or out of that cup either, but the manner of the defeat mattered. People should care a lot about these games because they explain in detail why we won't be winning any title.

[Power n Glory]

This

we will get thumped in the Europa league if you ask me

Yep. Let's not forgot who we lost to in our opening CL games.

[Letters]

And it came on the heels of another tragic performance in the Carling Cup.
It actually came on the heels of a very good result at Swansea which keeps us in the hunt, for now.
It's results like that, and others in recent league form like the Utd one when they were top and we leapfrogged them which make me believe we have a chance.


People should care a lot about these games because they explain in detail why we won't be winning any title.
Not really, our league form has been much better than our Cup form. You can go on about momentum but poor Cup results have been followed by good League ones so far, there's been no obvious connection. We're not going to be playing anyone of Bayern's quality again. After the Liverpool game you were lamenting the fact we were 5 points off the pace already and it would be 10 points off in the next 4 games and that would be the end of our challenge (well, someone else did but you strongly agreed). So much for that prediction. Will we win the league? I don't know, we'll find out in May. But recent league results have indicated we've got a chance. And it's not just a 'few wins', this good run extends way back into last season. We're calendar year champions so far and while that's as worthwhile as the top 4 trophy it shows a long, consistent run of form good enough to challenge.

Injuries is the thing that worries me most, we've shown we can win important games and be consistent over a long period. A few key injuries - and with our record that seems worryingly likely - and we'll be stuffed.

[Niall_Quinn]

We're calendar year champions so far and while that's as worthwhile as the top 4 trophy it shows a long, consistent run of form good enough to challenge.

In fact it doesn't show that at all. What it really shows is that when it really matters we don't drive it home. And it wasn't a good performance against Swansea, it was half a half decent performance with a couple of cameos from players we finally spent money on. Against a slightly better team we would have lost that game. That's what you get with Wenger's teams, the balance is just about tipped in favour of a win but when we lose it's straight over a cliff. Add in whatever fucked up training and fitness methods we are inflicting on the players and it's all way too hair trigger to build the sort of authority we'll need to win a title, let alone retain it. If some fans are ignoring these very poor cup performances which have come about as a result of spectacularly poor management then I hope at least people inside the club are paying more attention. What am I saying? Those bastards are falling over themselves to offer him a new contract based on what? Nothing.

[Niall_Quinn]

Whatever else, we better beat those spuds.

[Power n Glory]

It's not the result, it's the manner of the performance. The absence of any method from the manager to try and deal with adversity. And it came on the heels of another tragic performance in the Carling Cup. Doesn't matter much if we are in or out of that cup either, but the manner of the defeat mattered. People should care a lot about these games because they explain in detail why we won't be winning any title.

I switched off after the 3rd goal and just caught the highlights again. I don't think we approached the game any differently to the first tie. I think the difference is in personnel. We lost Kos and Bellerin plus you underestimate the importance of Theo and having a pacey threat up front that can draw defenders and lead the line on counters. We sat back deep again, didn't press but we made mistakes and were punished.

[fakeyank]

If we win the league, and i really think we can and probably will, then no one will care about these games.

What part of this season seems different than two seasons back or the one in 09/10 or 07/08? We have the same injury issues as all those years, the same manager and mostly same coaching staff. I really hope we can be competitive but IF I had to bet my house on whether we would win the title this season, I would not bet it on us!

[Letters]

Whatever else, we better beat those spuds.

I think that's something we can all agree with.

Do that and I won't be crying about losing to a very good Bayern side. All about the league this year, for me. The CL...well, that would be super-awesome but I think last night was an indication we're not quite at that level yet.

We're doing what we need to do so far to keep in the hunt for the title, for now that's good enough. I'm not happy about our CL form but so far it hasn't spilled over into league form. It would be typical of us to go and qualify anyway now.

[Letters]

What part of this season seems different than two seasons back or the one in 09/10 or 07/08? We have the same injury issues as all those years, the same manager and mostly same coaching staff. I really hope we can be competitive but IF I had to bet my house on whether we would win the title this season, I would not bet it on us!

Well, I wouldn't bet my house on it, that would be stupid!
Agree about the injury list, that is a problem which is starting to rear its ugly head again.
But the differences I see are the quality of player we have now - there's no doubt people like Cech, Ozil and Sanchez are making a difference, the ability to beat teams like Utd who we have a horrible record against and who are the sorts of teams we need to be beating if we're going to challenge and we've shown in the FA Cup we can finish the job in a competition - again, we beat Utd away in the Qtr finals last year, we wouldn't have done that a couple of years ago.

So I see a few signs of hope, despite early wobbles we haven't got off to a bad start like last year, if we keep up there or thereabouts I think we have a chance. Not sure I'd make us favourites but if we're in with a shout with 10 games left I have more faith in this lot than I would have a couple of years back for the reasons I mentioned. We are over-reliant on a few key players though and with our record that is a major concern.

[Niall_Quinn]

I switched off after the 3rd goal and just caught the highlights again. I don't think we approached the game any differently to the first tie. I think the difference is in personnel. We lost Kos and Bellerin plus you underestimate the importance of Theo and having a pacey threat up front that can draw defenders and lead the line on counters. We sat back deep again, didn't press but we made mistakes and were punished.

Precisely my point. If we had a manager with a bit of craft we'd have factored in the change in personnel and maybe not done something incredibly stupid like playing Campbell and Debuchy against pace. Nothing against Campbell because he tried, but he couldn't get near his man all night. Wenger eventually cottoned on after an hour of being battered. I'd like to see us hire a manager who can figure these things out before the game kicks off. And Bif completely isolated up top? How did the manager think that was going to play out? We didn't have Theo's pace, but we had Alexis.

[mastermind84]

Yep. Let's not forgot who we lost to in our opening CL games.

Or who knocked us out of CL last season.

[Power n Glory]

Precisely my point. If we had a manager with a bit of craft we'd have factored in the change in personnel and maybe not done something incredibly stupid like playing Campbell and Debuchy against pace. Nothing against Campbell because he tried, but he couldn't get near his man all night. Wenger eventually cottoned on after an hour of being battered. I'd like to see us hire a manager who can figure these things out before the game kicks off. And Bif completely isolated up top? How did the manager think that was going to play out? We didn't have Theo's pace, but we had Alexis.

I think with the amount of injuries we had, we were hamstrung with the team selection. Also, the team didn’t turn up. Too many mistakes and they didn’t fancy it. It just depends on how the feel on the night and I think that’s something Wenger has to address. He can’t leave it up to the players to mentally prepare themselves for every game because they’ll check out. I heard he went into one at half time but too little too late.

[Ollie the Optimist]

What part of this season seems different than two seasons back or the one in 09/10 or 07/08? We have the same injury issues as all those years, the same manager and mostly same coaching staff. I really hope we can be competitive but IF I had to bet my house on whether we would win the title this season, I would not bet it on us!

Several differences really. We have the same manager and mainly the same staff but there is a huge difference between those two years you have mentioned. We now have a plan B, we have won big games in this year alone. United home and away, city away, liverpool etc. We are beating teams that we struggled against last year, swansea, everton and looking comfortable. WE have a world class player in the four areas. Cech, Koscienly, Ozil and Sanchez. There is a huge difference between this year and five years ago. Injuries are starting to appear but if we can get a grip on them, and players return as scheduled after the break this month, we have a strong squad.

Chelsea and united look weak, city struggle without aguero and silva in the big games. We have a real chance this year, and Wenger has changed tactics to manage the squad and win the big games.

[Letters]

Several differences really. We have the same manager and mainly the same staff but there is a huge difference between those two years you have mentioned. We now have a plan B, we have won big games in this year alone. United home and away, city away, liverpool etc. We are beating teams that we struggled against last year, swansea, everton and looking comfortable. WE have a world class player in the four areas. Cech, Koscienly, Ozil and Sanchez. There is a huge difference between this year and five years ago. Injuries are starting to appear but if we can get a grip on them, and players return as scheduled after the break this month, we have a strong squad.

Chelsea and united look weak, city struggle without aguero and silva in the big games. We have a real chance this year, and Wenger has changed tactics to manage the squad and win the big games.

Agree. Would we have won that Utd game a couple of years ago? Would we have won that Swansea one for that matter - tricky place to go, easy to drop points.
Cech is making a difference - late in the Everton game he made a good save which kept us ahead, things like that get you the extra 2 points and it adds up over a season.
We finally have world class players through the spine of the team, the notable exception being up front but Giroud's scoring rate so far is not to be sniffed at and there should be plenty of goals throughout midfield.
Injuries could scupper us but IMO we have a real chance this year.

Obviously if we drop points or, God forbid, lose on Sunday then this place will be awash with "told you so's" and "see, we have no chance", but even if we lose we'll still be 8 points ahead of where we were at this stage last year and at worst 3 points off the top. Best case scenario we'll be top. Either way we're in the hunt, long may it continue.

Do we have the mentality to go all the way? I think so - we've done it in the Cup 2 years on the trot, we pushed hard in the league last year till the title was mathematically gone.
I think we finally have the ability and mentality to challenge.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think with the amount of injuries we had, we were hamstrung with the team selection. Also, the team didn’t turn up. Too many mistakes and they didn’t fancy it. It just depends on how the feel on the night and I think that’s something Wenger has to address. He can’t leave it up to the players to mentally prepare themselves for every game because they’ll check out. I heard he went into one at half time but too little too late.

I accept we had injuries (not that I accept whatever it is going on behind the scenes that leaves our players so vulnerable to these repetitive injury crises). What I don't accept is how little preparation and tactical planning went into that match. How hard could it have been to predict we'd be up against it on the night? So you have to plan for that and look to stifle the opposition so you can get a foothold in the game. Then you have to have a means of inflicting damage on the opposition when you get the rare opportunity. Wenger didn't do any of that. Or if he did then the players ignored him.

I didn't expect to win the game beforehand, knowing that Bellerin, Theo and Ox were both out so we'd have little pace. I knew for a fact we'd lose when I saw the team selection. We knew Bayern had very pacey options on both sides. So you have to get Gibbs into the mix. Who couldn't have predicted an already out of form Debuchy would be destroyed? Who couldn't have predicted Campbell didn't have the pace or experience to deal with the threats? This was bloody obvious stuff. The you play a slow tempo and you don't press so what did Bayern do? They just passed around us all night. They looked great because we let them play their game. This was no Plan B on our part, it was the stupidity of thinking that what worked 2 weeks ago could work again even though we didn't have the tools to make it work.

Alexis should have played through the centre. Bif had nothing to keep their defenders occupied. At least Alexis would have offered a threat and forced Bayern to be a bit more cautious. Instead we invited their back four to play rather than defend. They actually weren't that great defending and we passed through them a few times. What more could we have done if we'd have put them under more pressure? Alexis is the ideal player for that. Pace, endless stamina and a willingness to run with the ball and shoot when he gets the chance. Instead he was out of the game, effectively bypassed as Bayern waltzed up the pitch and through our midfield. How Wenger didn't react to that is staggering.

Wenger then blames the defence when it's he who set things up to give Bayern an easy ride and ensure the pressure was always on our back line. If we'd have come out of that with a 2-0 loss on the back of a solid, battling performance I'd have said okay, we were up against the odds and we did our best. But to be hammered like that when there are steps we could have taken but didn't take, you have to criticise the manager. His half-arsed approach to this competition is a joke. Every little thing counts at this level but he's not just getting the little things wrong, he's making huge errors on a regular basis and it's 100% his fault we are at the foot of the group sweating on dropping into the dreaded Europa League. 100% his fault. Ridiculous fuck-ups like selecting Ospina. What the fuck goes on in the guy's head?

Now we go into the derby match having to drag ourselves off the floor again. We still have the same injury problems but these are now compounded by a good arse kicking. We make it harder for ourselves all the time and the joke is Wenger thinks he's making it easier by selectively chucking matches and expecting his antics to have no psychological effects. We aren't up against Bayern, we should still have enough to win this. But if we go into the game with the same lack of planning, ambition, drive and desire as midweek then we're fucked. It's Wenger's job to have this team properly prepared when they step out on the pitch and at this level there are no valid excuses for him not doing that job properly. And if we don't have the resources to compete across all competitions then that's his fault too. He has everything he needs to get the job done, including money in the last few seasons. His excuses are bullshit.

[Letters]

Do you really think the way we plan for games changes radically from game to game? Why would it?

[Kano]

Do you really think the way we plan for games changes radically from game to game? Why would it?

And, as if by magic, we have been granted an answer today:


Asked if he has a “mystical power” over his players when he is preparing them for a match, Wenger replied: “Religiously, it is said that God created man. I am only a guide. I allow others to express what they have in them. I have not created anything. I am a facilitator of what is beautiful in man.

[Niall_Quinn]

Do you really think the way we plan for games changes radically from game to game? Why would it?

It's "radical" to react to an injury crisis and devise suitable tactics for a game against possibly the best team in Europe on their own patch?

It only seems radical because we haven't got a manager who can be bothered doing it. Maureen's a cock but he can do it. His counter attacking tactics against Bayern in the 2010 final allowed his markedly inferior Inter to come away with the trophy. Then there's us versus Utd in the Cup Final a decade ago. Wenger didn't mind mixing it up on that occasion, even though we didn't need to. Was that "radical" enough to answer your question?

[Niall_Quinn]

And, as if by magic, we have been granted an answer today:

I thought you were doing a MS and parodying the guy.

Apparently not:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/06/arsene-wenger-arsenal-philosphy-facilitator

FFS! He's so far gone he's never coming back.


“I define myself as an optimist. My constant battle in this business is to get out there what is beautiful in man. We can at this level portray me as naive. At the same time, it allows me to believe it and it often gives me reason.”


“I still live in the future. It is planned. Tight. My relationship with time is quite scary. I’m still trying to fight it. I’m always afraid of being late. Not to be ready. Not being able to accomplish all that I planned. My personal relationship with time is scary. To go back in time, to look behind yourself is equally staggering.”


“The only moment of possible happiness, is the present. The past gives regrets. And future uncertainties. Man quickly realised this and created the religion. It forgives him what he has done wrong in the past and tells him not to worry about the future, as you will go to paradise.”


“Unfortunately today, it works less! At the same time, fortunately, it means that my team does not necessarily need God to win.”

Is this some comedy ready-up he's playing along with? Or has he somehow, fuck knows how, been taken out of context?

He needs to go to the medical centre, where most of the rest of the team is.

[Globalgunner]

I thought you were doing a MS and parodying the guy.

Apparently not:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/06/arsene-wenger-arsenal-philosphy-facilitator

FFS! He's so far gone he's never coming back.









Is this some comedy ready-up he's playing along with? Or has he somehow, fuck knows how, been taken out of context?

He needs to go to the medical centre, where most of the rest of the team is.

I knew it!. Wenger is not really a manager. He`s a Svengali.

[Letters]

It's "radical" to react to an injury crisis and devise suitable tactics for a game against possibly the best team in Europe on their own patch?

It only seems radical because we haven't got a manager who can be bothered doing it. Maureen's a cock but he can do it. His counter attacking tactics against Bayern in the 2010 final allowed his markedly inferior Inter to come away with the trophy. Then there's us versus Utd in the Cup Final a decade ago. Wenger didn't mind mixing it up on that occasion, even though we didn't need to. Was that "radical" enough to answer your question?

I don't think Wenger's a great master tactician, there have been times when we've been caught with our pants down because we've had injuries and just let the replacement players go out and try to play the same way (most embarrassingly the 8-2 at OT, of course *shudder). And maybe there was a touch of that on Wednesday, but I think a lot of it was just getting beaten soundly by a very good side - as I said earlier in the thread they've been hammering pretty much everyone at home, they average more than 4 goals a game there. I'm not sure it deserves much more analysis than that.

We've picked ourselves up after other poor midweek games to win at the weekend, hopefully we'll do the same this time.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think Wenger's a great master tactician, there have been times when we've been caught with our pants down because we've had injuries and just let the replacement players go out and try to play the same way (most embarrassingly the 8-2 at OT, of course *shudder). And maybe there was a touch of that on Wednesday, but I think a lot of it was just getting beaten soundly by a very good side - as I said earlier in the thread they've been hammering pretty much everyone at home, they average more than 4 goals a game there. I'm not sure it deserves much more analysis than that.

We've picked ourselves up after other poor midweek games to win at the weekend, hopefully we'll do the same this time.

Bayern is a very good team, no arguing against that. Which is why we should have taken extra measures in preparation for that game. There's a definite sign of Wenger picking and choosing the games he wants to give a fuck about this season. Everything seems pinned on the PL and the rest has been let go to hell. Will be interesting to see if he lets the FA Cup slide too, despite the fact I'm sure most fans want to see us give it a real go and win it three in a row.

Picking and choosing games makes it a roller-coaster ride in terms of morale, performances, momentum. It took a full half against Swansea to get up to speed after the beating in Sheffield. We were woeful in the first half of that match. If we don't come out of the gate fast against the spuds and step on them early then the result is up in the air. One thing's for sure, they would rather be facing a team recently whipped than one who put up a good fight against Bayern.

[Özim]

The amount of thrashings we've had in the last 10 years is embarrassing, the fact we now accept them is even more embarrassing, at no point is getting thrashed acceptable, we're suppose to be challenging the best.

If it happened once in a blue moon fine, but not the amount it has in the last decade is unacceptable, Wenger keeps setting records on how bad a result we can get.

As for the title, we won't be winning it and putting all our eggs in one basket is foolish, Man City are superior to us especially when Aguero comes back.

[fakeyank]

The amount of thrashings we've had in the last 10 years is embarrassing, the fact we now accept them is even more embarrassing, at no point is getting thrashed acceptable, we're suppose to be challenging the best.

:gp:

I agree with this. We are 'supposed' to have moved to Emirates to challenge the very best in the world, and yet we are ok with excuses like "It's a very good Bayern side etc etc etc". If you are charging one of the highest ticket prices in football, then your football better show that as well. While I was fairly certain we'd lose this game, I didnt expect us to get arse fucked again.

I am ok with us putting all our eggs in the PL basket, but I also know that our manager will do piss all to mitigate our deficiencies in terms of tactics or buying new players.

[Kano]

I don't think Wenger's a great master tactician, there have been times when we've been caught with our pants down because we've had injuries and just let the replacement players go out and try to play the same way (most embarrassingly the 8-2 at OT, of course *shudder). And maybe there was a touch of that on Wednesday, but I think a lot of it was just getting beaten soundly by a very good side - as I said earlier in the thread they've been hammering pretty much everyone at home, they average more than 4 goals a game there. I'm not sure it deserves much more analysis than that.

We've picked ourselves up after other poor midweek games to win at the weekend, hopefully we'll do the same this time.

Bayern are an excellent side. A few steps away from the CL and claiming a certain level of greatness. They've battered Dortmund, their closest domestic rivals this season and of course did the same (under a different manager and with a different approach) to Barca a few years back. A frightening prospect when on their game.

They were smart on Wednesday, in that they drew us out into the game, allowing us some time on the ball in the first 10/15, affording them space to come forward and lure our players into a false sense of being able to take the game to them, which they exploited fully.

But. We didn't defend as well as the first game at all, we had no out ball beyond lumping it to Giroud and hoping Ozil could do something with the scraps. He was shifted out to the left wing by Bayern so his threat became minimal. We didn't defend as a unit as we did last time round, partly because of Bayern allowing us time to come forward and hitting in behind us but mostly because our team, as a unit, left too much space between defence and midfield. No pace. All of which falls onto the managers head for being non-reactive.

In isolation a battering can be wiped away but we have been asked to forget far too many of them over the years. Sure, the teams have been different but the manager hasn't and that is the reason why we will remain susceptible to a good kicking most seasons, whether it be domestic or continental. Quite often you have compared us to our rivals in the PL to add a positive outlook on our situation and so you can't escape the fact that none of them have suffered the number of beatings we have. Chelsea, Utd and City. Hardly any humiliations and more trophies. There is a link there surely.

I'm sure we'll pick ourselves up and beat Tottenham this weekend but the manner and number of these defeats shows a pattern, an inherent problem that constantly undermines us. Fans can forget it and move on but it must stick in the players mind, especially those that have been here and faced similar kickings. All of which must eat into their confidence and performance levels over time and when the league is a long, draining campaign, these thrashings will of course have an effect. How can they not? Wenger has always preached that doing well in one comp helps the other. Momentum, one game at a time and all that 'in the game' shit. And we'll have good runs, pretty looking calendar years that distort the argument but our season runs for 9 continual months, not broken up by 3 months of summer time.

[Letters]

Wenger keeps setting records on how bad a result we can get.

Making stuff up :bow:

EDIT: He also 'keeps' setting records in the FA Cup but yeah, let's focus on the negative, as always.

As for whether we'll win the league, that remains to be seen but your predictions so far about our 'poor' start haven't stacked up. Right now we're in contention, that's all you can ask at this stage. We've shown we can win big games, we've shown we can win trophies, we've finally got enough world class players to give us a chance. Let's see what happens. If we're champions come May I won't be crying about a bad result away against a side as good as Bayern.

[Niall_Quinn]

Making stuff up :bow:

EDIT: He also 'keeps' setting records in the FA Cup but yeah, let's focus on the negative, as always.

As for whether we'll win the league, that remains to be seen but your predictions so far about our 'poor' start haven't stacked up. Right now we're in contention, that's all you can ask at this stage. We've shown we can win big games, we've shown we can win trophies, we've finally got enough world class players to give us a chance. Let's see what happens. If we're champions come May I won't be crying about a bad result away against a side as good as Bayern.

Nobody is crying about anything. People are pointing out the flaws in our manager and how they surface repetitively. I said a while back we might win a title Liverpool with Suarez style. Not early Wenger style though, or Utd when they were in charge style, or even the shitty chavs when they were unbeatable at home style. All those teams had an authority about them. We do sometimes too, on a good day. But on a bad day :doh:

The manager is the problem. This squad probably is good enough to win a title. We just need that final piece in place.

[Letters]

So the solution is to get a different manager with different flaws? Probably more serious ones - a lot of the people touted as possible replacements on here haven't been tearing it up anywhere else. Even Saint Jose is coming unstuck this season - he's a good manager, clearly, but such a horrible **** that it seems no-one can stick working with him for long. We have bad days, sure. So does every team. The question is will we have enough of them to stop us challenging. We haven't so far, or rather our bad days have been in Cup competitions mostly, we've had a couple of bad league results too but every team gets those. For now, we're challenging. For now that's enough.

Wenger's won us 3 titles, he's been somewhat hamstrung by the stadium in the last 10 years right at the time the billionaires have been running amok. I honestly think without that we'd have won some more titles in the last decade. With the new financial deals we're finally more able to compete and signings like Ozil, Sanchez and Cech have made a clear difference - and shown that the idea that Wenger hates spending money is a myth. We should have challenged last year but we got off to a bad start and gave ourselves no chance before we'd got going. Should Wenger have been sacked for that? Arguably, but the FA Cup win bought him some more time. This year it's time to challenge properly. We are so far - despite some people's early season predictions. Keep doing so and I'll believe we have a chance. If we don't challenge properly this season then I agree he should be sacked but he's earned the right to try IMO.

[Power n Glory]

We have a chance of winning the league and it's even better than the chance we had when Fergie retired and we had just bought Ozil. Utd are still struggling for form but still in the race. But we have nothing to fear from them. Chelsea are in bad shape. Liverpool are in transition. City are the odds on favs to win the league but they have flaws too. We should be in with a chance but I'm not as optimistic because of the lack of signings and injury problems. Bayern are a very good side and I won't read too much into the defeat but we went out there with the wrong attitude. Wenger is going to have to whip his players into shape for key moments in the season or the wheels will fall off. If the players need to step their game up and be consistent, he has to step his game up and not do the usual he does every season. His man management, motivation and tactics have to be stretched. He can't do what he's been doing for the past 10 years and expect things to fall into place for us.

[Xhaka Can’t]

We have a chance of winning the league and it's even better than the chance we had when Fergie retired and we had just bought Ozil. Utd are still struggling for form but still in the race. But we have nothing to fear from them. Chelsea are in bad shape. Liverpool are in transition. City are the odds on favs to win the league but they have flaws too. We should be in with a chance but I'm not as optimistic because of the lack of signings and injury problems. Bayern are a very good side and I won't read too much into the defeat but we went out there with the wrong attitude. Wenger is going to have to whip his players into shape for key moments in the season or the wheels will fall off. If the players need to step their game up and be consistent, he has to step his game up and not do the usual he does every season. His man management, motivation and tactics have to be stretched. He can't do what he's been doing for the past 10 years and expect things to fall into place for us.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

[The Emirates Gallactico]

NQ, we don't play football in a vacuum, where the other team aren't able to prepare heavily themselves to counter our (probable) team or adapt accordingly to whatever tactics we're employing on the pitch at the time.

Nor are all our players emotionless drones who will follow every single instruction given to them throughout the 90 minutes without fail.

It's not Wenger's fault that Gabriel had a moment of hesitation and then was too slow in trying to to play Lewadonski offside which resulted in him scoring the first goal. Sure it may have looked in hindsight that not pressing Thiago was mistake, but if Gabriel did his job properly the ball would have floated harmlessly to Cech or Lewadonski would have been ruled offside and if would been another example of our tactics resulting in meaningless sterile possession from Bayern.

I don't think there was anything wrong with the tactics we employed per say, we just executed them extremely poorly with too many individual mistakes which cost us goals. The first goal coming as early as it did, also didn't help things as it seemed to kill some of our resolve.

The only thing I kind of agree with you is that we should have played Gibbs to give us some much needed pace up front, however at the expense of Campbell who looked out of his depth.

I think you're being incredibly harsh here on Wenger ..... this is some of the severest WOB stuff I've seen around on the internet and I often follow some of the prominent Arsenal accounts on twitter.

Honestly, I'm surprised you're not a treble winning manager yourself if it's as straightforward as you make out.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yeah, we just have to suck it up.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why do you have to be a treble winning manager to spot a young player getting murdered? In fact, why can't a manager with Wenger's credentials spot that and react accordingly? And why can't he predict it in the first place? It's not my amateurism that's the problem, it's his.

[Power n Glory]

I think you're picking him apart at the wrong time. If we had Kos on the pitch we made have made a better go of it. Same goes for Bellerin and Theo. I wouldn't have chosen this game to test Sanchez up front, Campbell played well in his last game and Bayern have really been pummelling teams. I wouldn't say Wenger got things badly wrong for this game. I'll only criticise the mentality we went out there with.