Match Reaction Arsenal 1-1 Shadow Dwellers

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger out.

Anyone left to defend him?

[Letters]

Well, we're level on points at the top of the table so I don't think there's much to defend him against.

[Ernesto]

I can't believe we weren't fired up for this game from the off.

It's the north London derby, FFS. Start strong and it gives us every chance to get 3 points.

[Kano]

A draw was overdue and can't complain with a point after being outplayed for most of the game. At least we didn't fold under the cosh and found a way back into the game. Well played in that regard.

Bayern game knackered us mentally and physically and a point will go a long way to steadying the ship again.

[Özim]

Lucky, lucky Wenger gets out of jail once again, is he the luckiest manager in the history of football?

[milla]

First week of Nov and the first team already left to bare bones, Wumger out. :coffee:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Absolute shit and the Spuds still screw it up.

:haha:

[Globalgunner]

Only Wenger plies his players with Prozac before a NLD

[Niall_Quinn]

Well, we're level on points at the top of the table so I don't think there's much to defend him against.

We should be several points clear. We have some great players and a manager who doesn't have the first clue tactically. Our players are that good they can drag the manager's arse along.

But imagine. What if we had a decent manager? :cloud9:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Wenger out.

Anyone left to defend him?

This isn't exactly a 'match reaction'.

We were poor today but we really should have put them away because even though were were badly outplayed, when the good chances came our way we were badly let down by Giroud.

Tottenham have a glass jaw - when we equalised we should have finished the job.

[Özim]

Bayern game knackered us mentally and physically and a point will go a long way to steadying the ship again.

Why do you think the Bayern game tires us out, we were outclassed and didn't put in much of a shift? Spurs played a day later.

[Marc Overmars]

A real stinker of a performance, I'm not sure we constructed a single decent passage of play. We never got going at all, Spurs will be gutted they didn't bury us.

Despite the non-performance, we still had chances via some hopeful crosses and Giroud should hang his head in shame for not sticking at least 1 of them away.

We got away with this one and in the grand scheme of things haven't harmed ourselves too much. Lets just hope we get some players back after the break and we can get going again.

[Özim]

Well, we're level on points at the top of the table so I don't think there's much to defend him against.

Considering the shocking performance I think there is, only luck meant he ended up with a draw, Spurs played us off the park and we were at home, we were absolutely awful.

[Kano]

Why do you think the Bayern game tires us out, we were outclassed and didn't put in much of a shift? Spurs played a day later.
Chasing the ball for most of the game. It also shot our confidence as these beatings tend to do. We were poor today but dug out a point. I can live with that. What else would you like me to do right now, in this instant?

[Letters]

Lucky, lucky Wenger gets out of jail once again, is he the luckiest manager in the history of football?

:haha:

Cheer up, we might lose the next one.

[Maestro]

Disappointing performance and result, we needed to win this to lay down a marker and go top. Making spuds look this good on our patch is unforgivable in my opinion, we had no fight or real desire for large parts of the game.

We HAD to take advantage of City dropping points, we didn't. No one is going to hand this title to us, we have to terrorise teams like Spurs at home and thug it by hook or by crook.

[Özim]

we might lose the next one.

You're probably right with such an average manager, it's a good thing for him he's blessed with good luck.

[Master Splinter]

First-choice players dead, Giroud, Alexis, Cazorla not on their game, Campbell crap. A decent result therefore on the day, but even with the poor performance, we had more than enough chances to win it. It's all on Giroud today sadly. He had three clear chances which should all have been goals and would have had handed Ozil four assists.

Debuchy actually did well today, but the lack of threat he and Campbell provide is so obvious.

Very good games from Cech, Coquelin and Ozil again. Alexis needs to find some form though. Giroud is Giroud, so no point complaining about his inconsistency.

We really need Ramsey, Bellerin and Theo back. And we really need not to lose anyone fucking else.

[Kano]

Thankfully Ozil has a two week break. Alexis will probably be run into the ground by Chile. That guy needs a rest.

[Niall_Quinn]

This isn't exactly a 'match reaction'.

We were poor today but we really should have put them away because even though were were badly outplayed, when the good chances came our way we were badly let down by Giroud.

Tottenham have a glass jaw - when we equalised we should have finished the job.

It is, because he's why we didn't win this game and he's why we aren't winning the title. I am absolutely fed up to the back teeth with him now. This will likely be the easiest title to win in years and he's going to blow it. There's no doubt about it. If there's a way to fuck something up Wenger will find it.

Going into this game he'd already seen how shambolic that right side was, but he went and did it all over. A fool could have figured it out but Wenger doesn't even rate as a fool when it comes to tactics.

He also saw how ineffective Bif was when he doesn't have pace around him stretching the play. Bif can't make his own moves. He's like a fucking statue. Must be the easiest player to mark in the league. So Wenger goes with him again.

The he drags Santi off the pitch. Yes, he was getting killed in the middle, so we had Flamini and Arteta and we could have moved Santi wide and sacrificed the useless Bif. But Wenger fucks it again.

I'm telling you. As hard as it is to believe, this guy has somehow got through the last 30 years without 101 tactics under his belt. He even admits it. He leaves that boring, non-financial shit up to the players.

Any other manager, pick one from anywhere, would have got us the 3 points today. Because we made the spuds look good by setting up to accommodate them in every way.

Anyway, I said this before the game so it's not hindsight. Either I am very lucky at predicting stuff or... I have been watching this for the last decade and have twigged.

Problem is, Wenger hasn't.

No title for us. Not a prayer.

[Letters]

We should be several points clear. We have some great players and a manager who doesn't have the first clue tactically. Our players are that good they can drag the manager's arse along.

But imagine. What if we had a decent manager? :cloud9:

OK, after the Liverpool game we were 5 points off the top, LDG said we'd be 10 points off in the next 4 games and it would be challenge over.
You replied


Definitely and you don't even need to look at the points tally to know it. Just look at the formation, the tactics, the team selections, the subs. Same old shit.

And now you're saying we should be several points clear? :blink:

[Globalgunner]

We need new players at Xmas. This squad cant win the EPL

[Özim]

Disappointing performance and result, we needed to win this to lay down a marker and go top. Making spuds look this good on our patch is unforgivable in my opinion, we had no fight or real desire for large parts of the game.

We HAD to take advantage of City dropping points, we didn't. No one is going to hand this title to us, we have to terrorise teams like Spurs at home and thug it by hook or by crook.

It's typical us, when we have a chance of going clear after a rival drops points we blow it, we've done this time and time again nothing changes, when the pressure is on we blow it.

[Globalgunner]

OK, after the Liverpool game we were 5 points off the top, LDG said we'd be 10 points off in the next 4 games and it would be challenge over.
You replied



And now you're saying we should be several points clear? :blink:

If we had played to our potential an won today. thats exactly what we would be. 2 points clear. Is that difficult to comprehend?

[Niall_Quinn]

Chasing the ball for most of the game. It also shot our confidence as these beatings tend to do. We were poor today but dug out a point. I can live with that. What else would you like me to do right now, in this instant?

Nah. Being humiliated and laughed at doesn't affect morale and confidence. The Bayern mauling was meaningless. A good team is going to get absolutely humiliated from time to time. Just look at what Bayern did to FC Wetherstones. Nothing to see here. Move on.

[Xhaka Can’t]

We need new players at Xmas. This squad cant win the EPL

It isn't the squad.

The one constant is the Manager.

[Niall_Quinn]

OK, after the Liverpool game we were 5 points off the top, LDG said we'd be 10 points off in the next 4 games and it would be challenge over.
You replied



And now you're saying we should be several points clear? :blink:

I said we have some great players. They have done remarkably well considering who we have in charge. But I don't back them, despite their efforts, to overcome the handicap.

If you have pitched up to start making excuses for us being outplayed on our own patch by our fiercest rivals then fine, do your thing. But stop trawling the search engine to try to justify your apologetic bullshit.

[Niall_Quinn]

It isn't the squad.

The one constant is the Manager.

Look. We are miles ahead of the chavs. This means we are going to win the title and everything else can be ignored. Don't you get that?

[Niall_Quinn]

It's all on Giroud today sadly. He had three clear chances which should all have been goals and would have had handed Ozil four assists.

What can you do? There are no strikers available anywhere in the world who are better than him.

How do I know this for a fact?

Wenger said.

[Özim]

We need new players at Xmas. This squad cant win the EPL

Everyone with a brain could have predicted this considering the amount of crocks we insist on carrying, we needed to sign players in the summer (except for the manager of course). Would be good to get players in January but we all know we won't, if by some miracle we do it'll be some unknown or some crock.

[tpyo]

I'm always happy to ensure we don't lose against spuds. I saw the second half and enjoyed the end-to-end stuff that typically only occurs in the NLD. None of this cagey bullshit just two teams going mental. Nice.

Always makes me chuckle to see the Wenger bashing here, I've watched this forum slide over the past ten years (possibly even longer?) from Wenger love to arguments and now full on fucking anti-Wenger insanity. "His players carry him because he is tactically weak" implying that football is only about tactics. Oh and extra points to the person who seemed to insinuate that the only reason we could win the league is because of Chelsea imploding. I wonder if he wins the league this season if he'll get any credit. I'd wager he won't get any credit from this place at least.
I just don't see the point, every single one of us _knows_ that Wenger has this job for life.... so why spend the next five years or whatever crying about it? We might as well accept the fact and just laugh at the fact that he doesn't do tactics, crying won't change anything. He might be a shit tactician but he's _our_ shit tactician.
I'd imagine a lot of you would have trouble supporting a lower league team with all the entitlement.

Back to the match though, whoever said it about Giroud was right. We had the chances to win the game and Giroud missed like three six yard headers? Shame but it happens in football, hopefully he'll be better in the next game.

[Power n Glory]

Just glad we didn't lose. Not sure why Campbell a date Sanchez aren't swapping wings when things aren't working. But saying that, Giroud wasn't going to score today.

[tpyo]

How was Campbell overall? I saw him do both good things and bad things in the second half. Did he play versus Bayern and was he any good there? Do we think he'll stay in the team after these performances?

[Kano]

How was Campbell overall? I saw him do both good things and bad things in the second half. Did he play versus Bayern and was he any good there? Do we think he'll stay in the team after these performances?

At best he's a squad player. People got very excited because he scored last week but ultimately he just plugs a hole in the team for now. Barring injuries, he won't play much at all and will be shipped on and forgotten about.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm always happy to ensure we don't lose against spuds. I saw the second half and enjoyed the end-to-end stuff that typically only occurs in the NLD. None of this cagey bullshit just two teams going mental. Nice.

Always makes me chuckle to see the Wenger bashing here, I've watched this forum slide over the past ten years from Wenger love to arguments and now full on fucking anti-Wenger insanity. "His players carry him because he is tactically weak" implying that football is only about tactics. Oh and extra points to the person who seemed to insinuate that the only reason we could win the league is because of Chelsea imploding. I wonder if he wins the league this season if he'll get any credit. I'd wager he won't get any credit from this place at least.
I just don't see the point, every single one of us _knows_ that Wenger has this job for life.... so why spend the next five years or whatever crying about it? We might as well accept the fact and just laugh at the fact that he doesn't do tactics, crying won't change anything. He might be a shit tactician but he's _our_ shit tactician.
I'd imagine a lot of you would have trouble supporting a lower league team with all the entitlement.

It's a fair point. The manager is going to be here regardless. Very frustrating though. Because with a decent manager (in terms of what happens on the pitch because he can't be faulted for the other stuff) we'd be able to take much better advantage of what is actually a decent squad.

For any other club at the top level I'd say true, you take the rough with the smooth. But of course those clubs have actually challenged and won. PL title, CL. We have the FA Cup. A good day out but let's not kid ourselves. Is it entitled for the fans of a club like Arsenal to expect to be competing on all fronts? A lot of money sloshing around the place, all from the fans' pockets ultimately.

I used to watch Preston in the 4th. Nearest club at the time. Loved it. I'll tell you, Preston vs Burnley was every bit as passionate as the NLD. Went every other week and even travelled away from time to time. It's not the same as supporting a billionaire club though is it? Or is any sort of expectation an "entitlement?"

This manager should be doing better with the resources available to him. Yes, we're equal top so it sounds ludicrous to criticise. However, when you have seen it all before and know where the axe is going to fall and how, you can maybe be forgiven for complaining about that.

[tpyo]

Thanks for the review. To be honest I'm rather glad that he at the very least qualifies as a squad player, with the injuries we have it gives him a position to work from and by the the time Walcott/Oxo are back we'll know if he's kicked on enough. Still sounds like he's got a lot of work to do though. I haven't been paying much attention this season, who are we waiting for to come back from injury to replace him? I said Walcott didn't I but I think he's been playing upfront more recently?

[Niall_Quinn]

How was Campbell overall? I saw him do both good things and bad things in the second half. Did he play versus Bayern and was he any good there? Do we think he'll stay in the team after these performances?

Eager but out of his depth and badly handicapped by the players around him. He's a decent backup, not a first team player. His ambition outstrips his ability at the moment and this nativity causes problems because he ultimately loses the ball or allows the opposition the time to regroup when we could otherwise exploit them with a quick and accurate pass or a decent cross.

[Niall_Quinn]

Thanks for the review. To be honest I'm rather glad that he at the very least qualifies as a squad player, with the injuries we have it gives him a position to work from and by the the time Walcott/Oxo are back we'll know if he's kicked on enough. Still sounds like he's got a lot of work to do though. I haven't been paying much attention this season, who are we waiting for to come back from injury to replace him? I said Walcott didn't I but I think he's been playing upfront more recently?

Ox will walk in ahead of him. Ramsey will walk in ahead of Ox. Campbell is a long way back and if a way can be found to keep him here as 3rd choice then that's a good outcome for us. Not sure it's a good outcome for him though because he could be getting a lot more game time further down the league.

[Letters]

If we had played to our potential an won today.
Probably true, but you could say that about most games we play. We've won 5 games in the league on the bounce, you're not going to win every game and whisper it quietly but Spurs were pretty good today. They're actually a better side than I've given them credit for, they've have only lost once all season in the league and they've already beaten City. It wasn't a good performance today but we got a point and while obviously I hoped we'd win given our performance a point isn't a disaster.

Most of the people bemoaning the fact we're not 2 points clear were saying we wouldn't be challenging at all this season. We are so far, long may it continue.

[Letters]

You're probably right with such an average manager, it's a good thing for him he's blessed with good luck.

:lol:

Yeah, we're level on points with City after 12 games, 9 points ahead of where we were at this time last year, because of luck.

Obviously you're WUMming, but that's the sort of logic I used to employ when I was 8 and my friend was better than me at various computer games "meh, he's just lucky". Looking back...yeah, he was just better than I gave him credit for.

[Letters]

Oh, and Cech :bow:
Kept us in it at 0-1, was a big part of getting us a point today. He really is making a difference.

[tpyo]

You make some lovely points:



A lot of money sloshing around the place, all from the fans' pockets ultimately.

Or is any sort of expectation an "entitlement?"

However, when you have seen it all before and know where the axe is going to fall and how, you can maybe be forgiven for complaining about that.

This manager should be doing better with the resources available to him.

I would argue though that the value of a supporter's dollar has decreased drastically since originally televisation and much more since all the foreign investment. Newcastle are probably the greatest example of this, having a very large fan base but still being completely unable to compete with the top clubs.
I think the expectation of winning trophies in this climate is _somewhat_ "entitled", especially compared to our position just prior to the EPL. Today as we're not foreign money we rely more on hard work and a bit of luck. For me being a supporter for a club that hasn't been Midas touched is all about hope and I think our position as a club over the past ten years while being frustrating has always delivered that sliver of hope that we _could_ win trophies. For me that's enough, although I don't have a season ticket so I appreciate I have less of a leg to stand on here.

I'm not sure about Wenger _should_ be doing better. He _could_ be better in some areas but then there are always trade-offs. Perhaps if Wenger was more tactical his players would like him less and want to play for Arsenal less or perhaps other areas of our performance could suffer.
I do agree that the squad could do with a bit more depth but I think the current transfer market is a bit strangled and inflated. I read an article this year about the summer transfer window and English clubs having trouble offloading poor performers on high wages.... could this be the beginning of the bubble popping? I hope so because Arsenal are definitely the club that would gain the most from that turn of events.

Perhaps I don't post here enough to be immersed in the culture of this forum to appreciate the nuance and in-jokes (I typically only read the match threads and match reactions) but for me some of the criticism comes across as a bit extreme.

[Niall_Quinn]

Probably true, but you could say that about most games we play. We've won 5 games in the league on the bounce, you're not going to win every game and whisper it quietly but Spurs were pretty good today. They're actually a better side than I've given them credit for, they've have only lost once all season in the league and they've already beaten City. It wasn't a good performance today but we got a point and while obviously I hoped we'd win given our performance a point isn't a disaster.

Most of the people bemoaning the fact we're not 2 points clear were saying we wouldn't be challenging at all this season. We are so far, long may it continue.

Pretty impressive you can type while having your face buried in Wenger's crack.

This was the NLD FFS!

Our biggest rivals.

On our patch.

And we looked like a bunch of pussies.

We were outplayed.

And we were lucky the bumbling idiot finally cottoned on and made the changes that grabbed a point.

However, the bumbling idiot was the guy who claimed there was nobody in the world available that was better than the guy who missed a string of sitters today.

And the bumbling idiot was the guy who lucked into Coquelin but still let another window pass when we need not just backup for the excellent Coquelin but also somebody to add a bit of steel when the 3 foot tall Santi can't do it. (Not his fault the bumbling idiot plays him out of position)

What should our reaction to the bumbling idiot's fuck-ups be?

"Whisper it quietly" :doh:

If we can't win these games then we aren't winning any title.

[Ollie the Optimist]

How was Campbell overall? I saw him do both good things and bad things in the second half. Did he play versus Bayern and was he any good there? Do we think he'll stay in the team after these performances?

hes utter crap. Has been all season in the games he has played for us. He scores a couple of goals in dead leagues and some think he is brilliant. All he did today was a couple of stopovers and then lose the ball.

[LDG]

Will settle for that.

Couldn't watch today, but sounds like we were jaded to fuck. Not suprised given the squad is creaking.

Hope they all get some rest the next few weeks.

[Power n Glory]

Eager but out of his depth and badly handicapped by the players around him. He's a decent backup, not a first team player. His ambition outstrips his ability at the moment and this nativity causes problems because he ultimately loses the ball or allows the opposition the time to regroup when we could otherwise exploit them with a quick and accurate pass or a decent cross.

You talking about Sanchez or Campbell? Not the greatest games for either player. The front 3 aren't working well at the moment. They need to play closer together to get the link up going but doing that means we're too congested and won't create space. Play too wide and we get this sort of performance where all of them are isolated and not really playing well.

[Ollie the Optimist]

We were lucky today, but sometimes you have to take that luck, put the performance away and move on with the point. We play again in two weeks where we should (if predictions are correct) have Ramsey, Bellerin and Ox back. We also have a 4 game run of very winnable games. Think its west Brom, norwich, sunderland, villa before we play City. Out of those games we should be at least equal with city, if not above them when we play them.

Spurs were good today, they aren't a bad side but we had the better chances and Giroud should have taken them. We got out of jail, but thats what happens over the season, its just a shame we couldn't beat them. Its november, and we are level on points at the top. I'll take that all day long.

[Niall_Quinn]

hes utter crap. Has been all season in the games he has played for us. He scores a couple of goals in dead leagues and some think he is brilliant. All he did today was a couple of stopovers and then lose the ball.

Bit unfair. He's a mid-table player with decent stamina but seems to be overawed with the expectations associated with playing in an Arsenal team. He's a lot more composed and efficient at International level. Ultimately he's 3rd choice. And he plays like a 3rd choice at this level.

[Slacker]

I fully expected us to blow this one, and after getting played off the park I'm happy with the draw. When you consider the injuries we have it was never going to be easy playing Spurs with every player who has pace sidelined. Sure it was a meaningless away fixture against a pub team that paid for Ox and Theo, and you are right to blame the manager. Sticking rookies in with them was ridiculous and the loss looked inevitable even if Ox and subsequently Theo stayed fit.

I'm not expecting miracles from AW, as you guys have pointed out, he is not a master tactician and his stubbornness and his myopia all get in the way of seeing the bloody obvious. However I still harbour some hope that he might see a chink of light and seize on it, or at worst, he just gets damned lucky and flukes the league by pure accident because we do have some great players.

For me the good news is we will play better at their place and they will be on the back foot. If we win there it won't be bad in the scheme of things. Baby steps though. WBA away next, and please could we have Bellerin and one of Rambo, Theo or Ox as well???

[Ollie the Optimist]

I fully expected us to blow this one, and after getting played off the park I'm happy with the draw. When you consider the injuries we have it was never going to be easy playing Spurs with every player who has pace is sidelined. Sure it was a meaningless away fixture against a pub team that paid for Ox and Theo, and you are right to blame the manager. Sticking rookies in with them was ridiculous and the loss looked inevitable even if Ox and subsequently Theo stayed fit.

I'm not expecting miracles from AW, as you guys have pointed out, he is not a master tactician and his stubbornness and his myopia all get in the way of seeing the bloody obvious. However I still harbour some hope that he might see a chink of light and seize on it, or at worst, he just gets damned lucky and flukes the league by pure accident because we do have some great players.

For me the good news is we will play better at their place and they will be on the back foot. If we win there it won't be bad in the scheme of things. Baby steps though. WBA away next, and please could we have Bellerin and one of Rambo, Theo or Ox as well???

Yeah we aren't where we are in the league this year because he's got lucky and fluked it. We are where we are because Wenger has got his tactics right.

[Niall_Quinn]

You talking about Sanchez or Campbell? Not the greatest games for either player. The front 3 aren't working well at the moment. They need to play closer together to get the link up going but doing that means we're too congested and won't create space. Play too wide and we get this sort of performance where all of them are isolated and not really playing well.

I thought Alexis did okay. When he got the ball he mainly kept it. And he usually found his target with his passing. But the game plan was so chaotic, or non-existent, it was hard for anyone to shine out there. Even so, I wanted more from him because he's a class act and these are the games you want to see an Alexis or Ozil change with one moment of brilliance. We need a manager who can grab the players and say this is what happens when Alexis is coming in from the wide position, or this is what happens when Ozil is central and ready to make the pass, etc. All those training ground moments that are drilled to perfection so they can be executed on match day. Then, and only then, you allow your big time players a little leeway. With Wenger though, it's up to the players to sort this out. It's up to the players to decide whether Wenger is actually Jesus or whether he was just sent by Jesus as a guide.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah we aren't where we are in the league this year because he's got lucky and fluked it. We are where we are because Wenger has got his tactics right.

Bullshit Ollie. How many times have we watched this game now? Are you going to say after 20 years the manager is not responsible? No, it's not a case of him being lucky. It's a case of him being negligent and sometimes incompetent. When you get to the top the little things matter. And Wenger has never properly taken care of business on the pitch. He's missing an Adams and Vieira and Bergkamp right now. The players who can do his job for him.

[Maestro]

With Wenger though, it's up to the players to sort this out. It's up to the players to decide whether Wenger is actually Jesus or whether he was just sent by Jesus as a guide.

to be fair to wenget, he said himself, only last week, that he sees himself as "a facilitator of what is great in man" ....so i think little bit more disciple than Jesus, he is

[LDG]

Bullshit Ollie. How many times have we watched this game now? Are you going to say after 20 years the manager is not responsible? No, it's not a case of him being lucky. It's a case of him being negligent and sometimes incompetent. When you get to the top the little things matter. And Wenger has never properly taken care of business on the pitch. He's missing an Adams and Vieira and Bergkamp right now. The players who can do his job for him.

He had done pretty well with tactics up until Sheffield Wednesday in the cup, and then Wenger did what Wenger does.

He showed no respect to the opposition and made horrendous fuck ups tactically. We lost. Lost two first team players, and stalled our momentum.

That game there is the reason for the poor performances against Bayern and today. Apparently we were a bit lethargic against Swansea too....

I think you're right that we shoudl be further ahead by now. But at the same time, we should give credit to AW for some good tactical changes of late. Bayern at home was a prime example.

[Niall_Quinn]

to be fair to wenget, he said himself, only last week, that he sees himself as "a facilitator of what is great in man" ....so i think little bit more disciple than Jesus, he is

Yes but he's just being modest.

[Niall_Quinn]

He had done pretty well with tactics up until Sheffield Wednesday in the cup, and then Wenger did what Wenger does.

He showed no respect to the opposition and made horrendous fuck ups tactically. We lost. Lost two first team players, and stalled our momentum.

That game there is the reason for the poor performances against Bayern and today. Apparently we were a bit lethargic against Swansea too....

I think you're right that we shoudl be further ahead by now. But at the same time, we should give credit to AW for some good tactical changes of late. Bayern at home was a prime example.

He got heaped in praise for the home game against Bayern. But it makes you wonder. When he fucks up so badly in other games, Zagreb, Olympiacos, can we really say suddenly he is a master tactician or do we conclude a broken watch tells the correct time twice a day?

[Gooner23]

We're joint top and in a position to challenge this year. At least wait until we actually fuck up before the hysterics.

Today was an ok point in the end given the way the game panned out. Players looked totally out of gas, not surprising really. Too many players out injured. And we still could of nicked it if Giroud wasn't such a fanny.

[selassie]

I knew they would give us a very difficult game today, I've watched them a few times this season and they have always looked very good. We were lucky today, they dominated the game for long periods and were stronger than us. It was a point gained IMO and there are still plenty of twists and turns left in the season so in the grand scheme of things it wasn't a bad result.

Im hoping Ramsey, OX & Bellerin return after the international break because the team desperately needs at least 2 of those 3 players back in the side.

[alexander]

Im happy with a point. We are clearly down to the bare bones of the squad, both teams are at the top of the form table in the last six games. Its a NLD and they are never easy games to win.
With the injuries we have, and how our first game went, to be here in near mid november, top of the table with man City who i believe were 6-7 points clear of us after a few games into the season I cant see why people are complaining. Bellerin, Ramsey, Theo, would probably have started today if fit, and if we had Ox, Welbz, Rosicky, Wilshere fit, they would all be on the bench.
I remember when we won the league in 1998 a pundit said at the start of the season that if you want to win the league, the most important thing to do is not loose, take a point at least.

Im not a Wenger apologist, and I thought that he should have left in the summer, but FFS give the guy a break. The way some talk on here you would think we were down the bottom with Chelsea! Credit where its due, he has changed it up, he is prepared to sit back and let others have the ball, when Theo was fit he was changing the striker for different opponents. For those saying they played on thursday and we played on wednesday, just look at the teams that were faced, ours was probably the finest team in Europe at this point in time.

For now we are right up there, looking pretty good and not being beaten. we were second best today, but they dug deep and got a point.

Now lets enjoy being top.

[Letters]

If we can't win these games then we aren't winning any title.
Yeah. Again, we've seen how good your previous predictions have been...

[alexander]

Yeah. Again, we've seen how good your previous predictions have been...

top of the league with a team that cost billions, that most say none of our players would get into...but yeah, its the manager thats shit and the sub-standard players that win the games.

Some people :shrug:

[Letters]

I knew they would give us a very difficult game today, I've watched them a few times this season and they have always looked very good.
I haven't seen much of them this season but credit where it's due, I think that's the best I've seen Spurs play against us.
They've only lost one league game so far and you can see why. In lieu of Chelsea (who I'm still loathe to write off - but they won't be winning the title) they've got a pretty decent chance of top 4 on today's evidence.

[AFC Leveller]

I think a draw today is OK. We had key players out, we had key players on the pitch who weren't at it (wenger says Santiago was dizzy) and came up against an energetic and hard working side. Yes we should be winning these games but city dropped points against the bottom side and they themselves lose to this spuds side heavily so in the grand scheme of things it's not too bad.

[fakeyank]

I'm not sure I would complain about today's result. We did well to get a point given the fact that our entire team is out injured, and cazorla got a panic attack! Thought Wengers subs worked well after the break and we should've won given girouds misses.

We just need to pray that we get players back in the next 2 weeks .. we cannot sustain a challenge with the squad absolutely stretched thin.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk

[alexander]

I haven't seen much of them this season but credit where it's due, I think that's the best I've seen Spurs play against us.
They've only lost one league game so far and you can see why. In lieu of Chelsea (who I'm still loathe to write off - but they won't be winning the title) they've got a pretty decent chance of top 4 on today's evidence.

On 606 phone in, they worked out the points (roughly) they needed to get to the top four (chelsea). I forget exact points they need per game, but assuming 70 points gets you too 4th, they need to recreate the form they showed last season for the rest of this one to get that points total. People are saying `its early yet` but we are basically a third through the season already.

[alexander]

We just need to pray that we get players back in the next 2 weeks .. we cannot sustain a challenge with the squad absolutely stretched thin.


100% agree

[Letters]

Im happy with a point. We are clearly down to the bare bones of the squad, both teams are at the top of the form table in the last six games. Its a NLD and they are never easy games to win.
With the injuries we have, and how our first game went, to be here in near mid november, top of the table with man City who i believe were 6-7 points clear of us after a few games into the season I cant see why people are complaining. Bellerin, Ramsey, Theo, would probably have started today if fit, and if we had Ox, Welbz, Rosicky, Wilshere fit, they would all be on the bench.
I remember when we won the league in 1998 a pundit said at the start of the season that if you want to win the league, the most important thing to do is not loose, take a point at least.

Im not a Wenger apologist, and I thought that he should have left in the summer, but FFS give the guy a break. The way some talk on here you would think we were down the bottom with Chelsea! Credit where its due, he has changed it up, he is prepared to sit back and let others have the ball, when Theo was fit he was changing the striker for different opponents. For those saying they played on thursday and we played on wednesday, just look at the teams that were faced, ours was probably the finest team in Europe at this point in time.

For now we are right up there, looking pretty good and not being beaten. we were second best today, but they dug deep and got a point.

Now lets enjoy being top.
:lol: It's like I created another account :ninja:

I'm with you, I don't understand it either. Spurs, much as it may pain us to admit it, are a pretty decent side this year. They lost on the opening day to Utd (wasn't it an own goal or something? I remember Utd fluked it somewhat) but they've not lost in the league since and while they draw too many to be title contenders they're a decent shout for top 4. We should be winning games like this but City should be winning away at rock bottom Villa too - they'd only got 1 point in their last 10 games before today :lol:. We weren't at our best today but we got a point - that's a good sign. The people complaining we didn't go 2 points clear today are the exact same people who were saying after the West Ham game we were going to get off to a poor start and had no chance of challenging. But for Mike Dean handing the points to Chelsea on a plate we might well be top right now, we've won every league game since till today. As you say the next 4 games are very winnable and we have a break coming up so hopefully some players will look a bit fresher and others will be back from injury.

If you'd given me this number of points after 12 games and to be level at the top at the start of the season I'd have taken it, after the West Ham game I'd have bitten your arm off. Right now we're challenging, that's what I expect us to do this season. So long as we keep doing that I'll have no complaints.

[Letters]

I'm not sure I would complain about today's result. We did well to get a point given the fact that our entire team is out injured, and cazorla got a panic attack! Thought Wengers subs worked well after the break and we should've won given girouds misses.

We just need to pray that we get players back in the next 2 weeks .. we cannot sustain a challenge with the squad absolutely stretched thin.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk

FY and Letters in agreeing with each other shock exclusive :o

I wouldn't hammer Giroud too much - he did miss some and the header past the post was particularly :doh: but we all knew he's not a striker who will win you the league and his goal return so far isn't too shabby. I think we need to sign someone in January to really push us on but it's not easy to do that half way through a season. That's why Wenger gets the big bucks though (I forget exactly how much ;))

[alexander]

:lol: It's like I created another account :ninja:

I'm with you, I don't understand it either. Spurs, much as it may pain us to admit it, are a pretty decent side this year. They lost on the opening day to Utd (wasn't it an own goal or something? I remember Utd fluked it somewhat) but they've not lost in the league since and while they draw too many to be title contenders they're a decent shout for top 4. We should be winning games like this but City should be winning away at rock bottom Villa too - they'd only got a point in their last 10 games :lol:. We weren't at our best today but we got a point - that's a good sign. The people complaining we didn't go 2 points clear today are the exact same people who were saying after the West Ham game we were going to get off to a poor start and had no chance of challenging. But for Mike Dean handing the points to Chelsea on a plate we might well be top right now, we've lost every league game since till today. As you say the next 4 games are very winnable and we have a break coming up so hopefully some players will look a bit fresher and others will be back from injury.

If you'd given me this number of points after 12 games and to be level at the top at the start of the season I'd have taken it, after the West Ham game I'd have bitten your arm off. Right now we're challenging, that's what I expect us to do this season. So long as we keep doing that I'll have no complaints.

Like I said, I thought it was time for wenger to go, but I will only judge him on what he is doing now, and we are looking good. Isnt it a `thing` where teams play poorly but get something out of the game? well thats what we did today, with a team depleted badly on our right side.

See how it goes, but.....TOP OF THE LEAGUE! :jumpnana:

[Letters]

Like I said, I thought it was time for wenger to go, but I will only judge him on what he is doing now, and we are looking good. Isnt it a `thing` where teams play poorly but get something out of the game? well thats what we did today, with a team depleted badly on our right side.
After the start last year I thought he should go but the 2nd half of the season - particularly the FA Cup win - earned him another season, for me.
But this year we really do have to challenge. So far, we are. So happy days. If we tail off due to lack of squad depth or whatever then yeah, it's time for him and us to move on.

[Kano]

On 606 phone in, they worked out the points (roughly) they needed to get to the top four (chelsea). I forget exact points they need per game, but assuming 70 points gets you too 4th, they need to recreate the form they showed last season for the rest of this one to get that points total. People are saying `its early yet` but we are basically a third through the season already.

Shit pundits still scared to really criticise Jose and be seen to be getting off the fence for once in their lives, still insist they'll come good. Top four has gone for Chelsea. He's taken them into the Europa at best if he or someone else turns things around. Chance of a lifetime for Spurs and Liverpool to get into the CL.

[Marc Overmars]

http://metro.co.uk/2015/11/08/tottenham-fans-get-revenge-on-arsenal-supporters-by-allegedly-smashing-up-toilets-at-the-emirates-5488001/
Spurs fans smashed up the toilets. :doh:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Those are sinks.

[Özim]

hes utter crap. Has been all season in the games he has played for us. He scores a couple of goals in dead leagues and some think he is brilliant. All he did today was a couple of stopovers and then lose the ball.

What utter nonsense. He works hard, he's done OK but will obviously take time to adapt, he's done well for his country and the club he went on loan to, so he has talent.

[Özim]

:lol:

Yeah, we're level on points with City after 12 games, 9 points ahead of where we were at this time last year, because of luck.

Obviously you're WUMming, but that's the sort of logic I used to employ when I was 8 and my friend was better than me at various computer games "meh, he's just lucky". Looking back...yeah, he was just better than I gave him credit for.

We were humbled in the CL in midweek where we got our arses well and truly handed to us, we've lost to a couple of average teams on top of the in the CL and today we were played off the park at home by our rivals and really just got lucky because we didn't deserve anything (we also got real fortunate against Swansea in the 1st half amongst other things).

It's early days in the title race, but I'm pretty sure we'll be nowhere come May, we'll get top 4 but that's about it, manager isn't up to scratch, whether we're top no or not matters not, today we had a chance to go clear but low and behold we blow it, does it sound familiar?

[Niall_Quinn]

We were humbled in the CL in midweek where we got our arses well and truly handed to us, we've lost to a couple of average teams on top of the in the CL and today we were played off the park at home by our rivals and really just got lucky because we didn't deserve anything (we also got real fortunate against Swansea in the 1st half amongst other things).

It's early days in the title race, but I'm pretty sure we'll be nowhere come May, we'll get top 4 but that's about it, manager isn't up to scratch, whether we're top no or not matters not, today we had a chance to go clear but low and behold we blow it, does it sound familiar?

The same crew will be saying the same things next season. And the season after. And the season after that. Realisation comes at different points for different people and that's okay. We're second right now and Leicester are a point behind. Guess they are going to win the title too.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Getting the lead and blowing it was the problem we've had when we've been going for the title I thought.

[Niall_Quinn]

Henry gets it. He understands why this was anything but a good result.


'They came out in the second half with enough desire to win it, something that they did not have in the first half.' Henry said on Sky Sports after the final whistle.

'I think that Tottenham played better than Arsenal, but ultimately when you know Manchester City have drawn a game and you can get two points ahead of them you have to take that opportunity and today they didn't.

'Yes they didn't play well but you have to manage to win these types of games even when you're not playing well no matter how no matter what especially against Tottenham. They were better in the second half but it wasn't enough.'


And this will be the same story come May. Writing is all over the wall. The Sheff Wed, Bayern and now this result show that nothing significant has changed. But people say the first two results don't matter and this last one was somehow acceptable.


‘When you are 1-0 down, it's a mixture of relief and regret,’ Wenger said. ‘If we were really clinical we would have won it. Giroud had the chances to score. He is very angry.’

The manager was ‘pleased’ with eight-goal Giroud’s dressing-room reaction and believes Arsenal are showing the steel required to clinch a first title since 2004.

That's good news. Bif may not be able to do the business on the pitch but he's kicking arse and taking names in the dressing room. Do we get any points for that?


‘We have shown the character again. We were on the ropes but responded. Every time you have a disappointment I think we respond well. The results show you the championship will be difficult for everybody. Mental qualities can have a big influence in the future, and we need this.’

Wenger rejected that this was a missed opportunity given City’s draw at Villa: ‘If we look over a longer distance, in the last six games, we've played five wins and one draw. I am disappointed that we didn't win but if you look at the recent period as a block, it can happen that you drop points.’

Yep. Did you know that in 2015 we have more points than anyone? We are the Calendar Year Champions. Do we get any points for that?

What Wenger really rejects is the notion that when the chips are all down and we really must get a win, his teams come up short time and time again.

If he was seething, if he was laying into the players for blowing such a huge opportunity, then I'd have hope. But his tired old excuses? Save them.

[Letters]

It's early days in the title race, but I'm pretty sure we'll be nowhere come May
You were pretty sure that we were getting of to a 'poor start' which would mean we weren't competing. Now we're level on points with City, Utd don't look too worrying and your beloved Chelsea are nowhere.


we had a chance to go clear but low and behold we blow it, does it sound familiar?

Well, yes. But we had a chance to leapfrop ManYoo when we played them and we didn't blow it. There's only been one occasion before today this season when City have dropped points this season and we played after them - that time we beat Leicester 5-2 (still their only league defeat this season).

Spurs are a good side, they've only lost one game this year too - that was on the opening day and they were pretty unlucky, they lost to an own goal)

You were complaining we'd got off to a poor start and weren't going to compete. Now you're complaining that we're only level and didn't go 2 points clear. Questions about us will remain until we do win a title but we've answered some questions with the Cup wins (some were saying we'd never win a trophy under Wenger again), we're winning games like the ManYoo one and before today had won 5 games in a row to go level with City on points. On our day we should beat Spurs at home but they're no pushovers. City should be beating Villa away - they'd drawn 1 and lost 9 of their previous 10 league games. We didn't play that well but we got a point against a pretty decent side. We're level on points with City at the top, we're competing. For now, that's enough. What we have to do is stay challenging till the end this year.

[Niall_Quinn]

Getting the lead and blowing it was the problem we've had when we've been going for the title I thought.

We can be leading or we can be on one of those storming catch-up runs. Doesn't matter. There's always that final hurdle waiting.

[Letters]

We're second right now and Leicester are a point behind. Guess they are going to win the title too.
Yeah, Leicester have a history of competing for the title. If you look at Leicester's fixtures they haven't played many of the big boys yet, 3 of their wins have been against teams in the bottom 5 in the table. They played us and came unstuck. They're on a very good run but they won't last the distance. Whether we will remains to be seen but we've clearly got a higher class of players and a better squad than they do.

[Letters]

Yep. Did you know that in 2015 we have more points than anyone? We are the Calendar Year Champions. Do we get any points for that?
No, but it shows it's not just been a few good wins, it's been a long, consistent run of title-winning form. Today was neither a good result not a disaster.


What Wenger really rejects is the notion that when the chips are all down and we really must get a win, his teams come up short time and time again.
That's true if you ignore all the times when we did get a win.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah, Leicester have a history of competing for the title. If you look at Leicester's fixtures they haven't played many of the big boys yet, 3 of their wins have been against teams in the bottom 5 in the table. They played us and came unstuck. They're on a very good run but they won't last the distance. Whether we will remains to be seen but we've clearly got a higher class of players and a better squad than they do.

The fact you actually go into detail on that is so incredibly illustrative. You remind me of about 30 million other people in this country.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

So much to say but shocking misses by Giroud, my Lord!

In the end the chances you take and don't take really count....whether you play well or not. We could have played superbly today and failed to win from missing chances.

[fakeyank]

How many of the fuckers from the squad are playing during the international break? Can we lock these fuckers up and not let them leave?

[Marc Overmars]

One positive to come from today is that Ozil is apparently the first player in PL history to assist in 6 consecutive games.

Fair play to him, I wasn't sure about him after his first year but he's really settled down and adjusted to this league now. Oozing with a lot more confidence and he's now made himself invaluable.

[Maestro]

Ozil is arguably the best out and out playmaker, period. Too bad he's deprived of a more able front man to play with.

Regards the game yesterday and after sleeping over it, I'm still with Thierry on this one. That wasn't good enough, we had to win that by hook or by crook to take advantage of City's slip up. I really can't see it and other way, no disrespect to other views on here, it was a poor performance but an even worse result we really had to win it.

[Grebbo]

We were poor but still had the best chances. Giroud missed two easy headers.

Given our injuries it's not a bad result.

[Letters]

This.

https://hughbessant.wordpress.com/2015/11/08/reasons-to-believe/

[Marc Overmars]

Looking back at the highlights in a calm state of mind and I think it's a game we really should have snatched. The chances he missed were bread and butter for Giroud, there aren't many better headers of the ball in the league than him. Disappointing. Let's just hope he returns to form quickly and doesn't spend the next few games cutting himself.

It was a bit like the Liverpool earlier in the season when we should have been buried but didn't fully make the most of the lifeline we were given. We've got a few straight forward looking fixtures coming up so we should be looking at getting another run going if we're serious about challenging.

[Letters]

The fact you actually go into detail on that is so incredibly illustrative.
Is it? What of?

[AFC Leveller]

Arsenal have allowed 50 shots on target this season - that's more than Bournemouth (48) and Watford (46). Petr Cech earning his corn.

[Letters]

Arsenal have allowed 50 shots on target this season - that's more than Bournemouth (48) and Watford (46). Petr Cech earning his corn.

He kept us in it yesterday, big part of why we got a point. He really is making a difference this year.

[Globalgunner]

Really cant see us winning the league. It would be mind boggling on a scale greater than Fergies last title with a poor United side.

Getting comprehensively outplayed by the Spuds on our own patch is unacceptable, coupled with stomach churning performances in the CL.

Seriously who wants another 5 years of this?

[Letters]

I don't think it would be mind boggling, IMO we've got a squad that can compete, we're doing so so far.

We were outplayed yesterday for parts of the game but Spurs, whether we like to admit it or not, are a pretty good side this year. They've already played City and spanked them. The CL results have been bad but don't seem to have affected our league form so far so not really relevant to our title aspirations.

EDIT: Addendum - is it acceptable to draw away at Villa? A team who had only got 1 point from their previous 10 games and hadn't kept a clean sheet since the opening day...

[Dein-machine]

Yesterdays game was a mini version of our inability to compete for the title under Wumger. Top of the league was there for us, we were at home to the Spuds, not Bayern, Barca or Man City - the Spuds!! & we were extremely lucky to get a point.
Its that will to win, the desire required to take you to the next level that we dont get under Wumger. We are happy with 2nd best (usually 4th best) because its now part of our make up.

Most of the Spurs team played on Thursday evening so lets stop the crap about being tired after the Bayern game. We started the game with 4 players who would struggle to get into the Stoke team, we ended up with 5 players on the pitch that would struggle to get into the Stoke team - therein lies our problem. The squad depth does not allow injuries to key players & we all knew this during the transfer window. We have had a decade of long term injuries to key players with limited back up. Lessons do not get learnt.
When we have to start relying on Gibbs as a game changer, you know we have problems.
If we really wanted to compete, we would have Augbemeang & Reuss competing for places with Walcot & Ramsey. We would have someone like Shawcross, defending like he's lifes on the line, alongside Kos as opposed to the dinosaur German we have.
We would have a centre forward who doesn't need 6 chances to score a goal. All these things should be in place by now if we actually do want to win the title.
For those that want to spout about us being 2nd in the league - wonderful, we've been there before Xmas in other years - proves nothing when you know you dont have the squad to substain the challenge.
For those same people, after our latest 2 performances - look at where Bayern were when we moved Stadium, look at where Spurs were & then explain how Wenger is taking us forward.

[Power n Glory]

The wheels haven’t fallen off quite yet. We should have won the game but it’s worth chilling out. It’s not over yet.

[Ollie the Optimist]

What utter nonsense. He works hard, he's done OK but will obviously take time to adapt, he's done well for his country and the club he went on loan to, so he has talent.

Done well on the loans. Well he hasnt, last year he played 20 times for Villiareal and scored once. Before that he got 11 in 43 appearances in an easy league. He has had his chances here and failed to take them. You say he works hard, but then so does flamini.

and hes shit

[Niall_Quinn]

Is it? What of?

You missing the point by around 36 miles. The points total now might tell us who's NOT going to win the title (the chavs, for example) but the actual business of winning the thing is still way out in the distance and will require consistency between here and there plus bottle when it comes down to the final crunch matches. Everything we are displaying so far points to another failed tilt. This is why the run-in last year was so important. Winning is a habit, a state of mind. Our club doesn't take winning nearly seriously enough. Paisley, Clough, Ferguson understood what winning was about. Wenger doesn't. We know this for a fact because of his willingness to chuck games he sees as less important. He's an accountant not a sportsman. For Wenger 3 wins and a loss is better than 2 wins and 2 draws. Which is smart, of course, because it gets more points. But a real sportsman would rather die than lose. And it's that win at all costs attitude that actually gets the wins at the top level. When it really gets down to it, a winner will go the extra yard and claw out the victory.

You dismiss Leicester as title rivals because you think they have certain weaknesses that will see them drop away when the sharp end of the season arrives (or even sooner). You're right. They just won't have the squad to push all the way. But they have done well so far.

As for us, we don't have the manager to push all the way. How do we know? Look at the last 10 years and compare to this year. Same shit. Okay, I accept you deny it so no point going on about it. But Wenger's self-delusion is also illustrative. After tossing 2 points at home against the spuds he consoles himself with the idea we've had 4 wins out of 5 and it's not unusual for a club to drop points over 5 games. Sounds reasonable until you analyse his spin in more detail. Because the reality is we've only won TWICE in the last five, having suffered heavy and embarrassing defeats against Sheff Wed and Bayern Munich and most recently letting our local rivals come and slap us around for a point. We've also played a shit first half against Swansea, before grabbing the points, and we beat a woeful Everton. If you view things as an accountant you can write off the bad stuff and just focus on the good. If you view things as a winner then we're actually on quite a shitty run of form.

But Wenger and some of the fans prefer accountancy, so looks like we are going to win the league. Or at least the most wins in the calendar year league.

For the rest of us, we'll know when the team is really on it and going for glory. Like the teams of Wenger's early years. Fans must surely remember that feeling of confidence every time the team took to the pitch? Can anyone, hand on heart, say they ever feel that confidence these days? Our expectations have tumbled along with Wenger's performances. Now some look at 2 points dropped against our bitter rivals and say, decent result. That's how far we have fallen. You look back over 10, 15 years and you can see patterns and decline and a falling standard. Those patterns haven't disappeared, they are still right here. That's why some already know there will be no title.

Or put in very practical terms. Summer transfer window. Striker required. Wenger fails to deliver making stupid claims there's nothing out there better than the chump we just saw miss a bag of sitters on our own turf against the spuds. This negligence exists whether we previously signed Alexis and Ozil or not. The argument Wenger won't spend because he spent on Ozil does not now mean we have a decent striker up top, does it?

After almost a decade he spent on a decent keeper. Well done. Only a decade too late.

Bayern brought Vidal off the fucking bench against us midweek. Wenger couldn't find anyone worth buying though.

Wenger finally bought a decent keeper and then played Ospina in the CL, who promptly threw the ball in his own net.

And so on.

It's all good - nothing to see. Move on.

[Niall_Quinn]

Done well on the loans. Well he hasnt, last year he played 20 times for Villiareal and scored once. Before that he got 11 in 43 appearances in an easy league. He has had his chances here and failed to take them. You say he works hard, but then so does flamini.

and hes shit

Flamini isn't shit either. He's just not title winning quality. But damn glad we had him yesterday, he got stuck in and stemmed the bleeding. He also got the goals last time we played the spuds. Shame a few of the other players, like that bloke we have up top who couldn't hit the Boeing factory from 6 inches, and the 1110 who stepped out to stroll the first half don't have the same enthusiasm as Flamini. We'd be flying if they did.

EDIT: Should be 10 not 11 because Cech is always a professional and it stands out a mile.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yesterdays game was a mini version of our inability to compete for the title under Wumger. Top of the league was there for us, we were at home to the Spuds, not Bayern, Barca or Man City - the Spuds!! & we were extremely lucky to get a point.
Its that will to win, the desire required to take you to the next level that we dont get under Wumger. We are happy with 2nd best (usually 4th best) because its now part of our make up.

Most of the Spurs team played on Thursday evening so lets stop the crap about being tired after the Bayern game. We started the game with 4 players who would struggle to get into the Stoke team, we ended up with 5 players on the pitch that would struggle to get into the Stoke team - therein lies our problem. The squad depth does not allow injuries to key players & we all knew this during the transfer window. We have had a decade of long term injuries to key players with limited back up. Lessons do not get learnt.
When we have to start relying on Gibbs as a game changer, you know we have problems.
If we really wanted to compete, we would have Augbemeang & Reuss competing for places with Walcot & Ramsey. We would have someone like Shawcross, defending like he's lifes on the line, alongside Kos as opposed to the dinosaur German we have.
We would have a centre forward who doesn't need 6 chances to score a goal. All these things should be in place by now if we actually do want to win the title.
For those that want to spout about us being 2nd in the league - wonderful, we've been there before Xmas in other years - proves nothing when you know you dont have the squad to substain the challenge.
For those same people, after our latest 2 performances - look at where Bayern were when we moved Stadium, look at where Spurs were & then explain how Wenger is taking us forward.

Share price is up. Ticket prices up. Bit harsh to say there has been no progress at all.

[Letters]

Yesterdays game was a mini version of our inability to compete for the title under Wumger. Top of the league was there for us, we were at home to the Spuds, not Bayern, Barca or Man City - the Spuds!!
The Spuds who have lost one game all season. They aren't a pushover any more, they've already played and beaten City. Like it or not they're a decent side now.
Agree about some of the concerns about squad depth but I wouldn't write us off just yet. After a shaky start most on here didn't think we'd be anywhere near challenging, after 12 games I'd have taken being level with the top team.

[Bumble]

The Spuds who have lost one game all season. They aren't a pushover any more, they've already played and beaten City. Like it or not they're a decent side now.
Agree about some of the concerns about squad depth but I wouldn't write us off just yet. After a shaky start most on here didn't think we'd be anywhere near challenging, after 12 games I'd have taken being level with the top team.
I wouldn't even say that our squad depth is really that bad. Campbell is only playing as the 4 ahead of him are injured. We put out a team that should have been Spurs at home. But Spurs played well and they should be kicking themselves for not winning.

It is a long season, we will drop points again but so will City. We have a squad that can win the league. Cech has made a massive difference. The league is very competitive, and City are still capable of dropping points. If we finish 3rd and play in the Europa I think that might screw us having to play Thursday then Sunday.

[Globalgunner]

I cant understand the mentality of people who always argue that where we are as a club is exactly where we ought to be.
We havent won the league in a decade, Next season will come on a decade since we moved into the Emirates, supposedly the start of a new glorious era for the club.
We have ironically stagnated since then. What was the point of the big move then. Progress in order to stay in the same spot. Pool, Everton & Spurs have been in the same spot literally for the same period and they havent shelled out 350m for a new stadium.
Seems we have been the victims of some massive scam or pyramid scheme

[Niall_Quinn]

I cant understand the mentality of people who always argue that where we are as a club is exactly where we ought to be.
We havent won the league in a decade, Next season will come on a decade since we moved into the Emirates, supposedly the start of a new glorious era for the club.
We have ironically stagnated since then. What was the point of the big move then. Progress in order to stay in the same spot. Pool, Everton & Spurs have been in the same spot literally for the same period and they havent shelled out 350m for a new stadium.
Seems we have been the victims of some massive scam or pyramid scheme

tbf, Liverpool and the spuds have shelled out 350mill on the likes of Lambert and Goaldado. Luckily for us they didn't buy decent players instead. Although that bloke the spuds have for a manager now seems to be irritatingly competent. And now Pool have Klopp. We'd best get a move on or we really will be scrapping with those two in the near future.

[Letters]

You missing the point by around 36 miles. The points total now might tell us who's NOT going to win the title (the chavs, for example) but the actual business of winning the thing is still way out in the distance and will require consistency between here and there plus bottle when it comes down to the final crunch matches.

I agree. That's pretty much what I was saying early season. You don't win the league in the first 10 games - but you can lose it, as Chelsea have. You win the league, or don't, in the last 10 games. Interestingly when I was saying that early season I was endlessly hammered for it by people who thought our shaky start showed we had no chance and we'd be out of it before we got going just like last year.


Everything we are displaying so far points to another failed tilt.

Really? Everything? Winning away at Swansea when City had won, beating Utd when they were 3 points ahead of us to leapfrog them, beating Leicester away when City had lost... I'm cherry picking a bit but everything?


But a real sportsman would rather die than lose. And it's that win at all costs attitude that actually gets the wins at the top level. When it really gets down to it, a winner will go the extra yard and claw out the victory.

OK, but you can't win every game. You just can't. Sometimes in football you don't play at your best and on the day you really should probably lose but you claw something out of the bag and get a point - not ideal but not a disaster and feels a lot better than a victory. That's what we did yesterday. Some people are acting like we should be sweeping teams like Spurs aside. IMO Spurs showed yesterday that in lieu of Chelsea they're genuine top 4 contenders. They've only lost one game all season and you can see why. They draw too many to be title contenders but I wouldn't write them off for top 4.


As for us, we don't have the manager to push all the way. How do we know?

Well, we don't know. Knowing implies certainty and we can't be certain. This manager has already won us 3 titles, why only consider the last 10 years? Why not consider his whole time with us?
Grouping the last 10 years in one lump is over-simplifying things. For much of that time we were hampered by the stadium move and there was the double whammy of the billionaires sticking their oars in. Without them I believe we'd have picked up a title or 2 over that period. 2 years ago the new financial deals came into effect and there was an immediate change in transfer policy which has brought us Ozil and Sanchez. There is no doubt those signings are making a difference. The FA Cup is not the biggest prize but it's a start, it's better than we had. We should have challenged for the title last year, our poor start made that impossible. Wenger should arguably have been sacked for that, if retaining the FA Cup bought him a stay of execution then I can live with that. We should have done more in the summer but Cech has been a good signing - we wouldn't have got a point without him yesterday, things like that over a season will make a difference.

You can analyse our run of form all you like, the net result is we're level at the top of the table. Could have been better, could have been a lot worse. You were the one who, as we drew against Liverpool and were then 5 points off the top, agreed that we would "definitely" be 10 points off after another 4 games. I keep reminding you of that because it should surely make you less certain of your predictions. Somehow though, it doesn't seem to.


Like the teams of Wenger's early years. Fans must surely remember that feeling of confidence every time the team took to the pitch? Can anyone, hand on heart, say they ever feel that confidence these days?

Well, over time I am getting more confident in the team again. I didn't think we'd beat Utd - they were 3 points ahead of us, it was a chance to leapfrog them, we had a horrible record against them, the exact sort of game we have historically cocked up. We blitzed them in 20 minutes. While we're here, I didn't think we'd beat City away last year and I wasn't confident of going to Utd in the FA Cup. Back to this season, Swansea is a tricky place to go, a point wouldn't have been a disaster, very good win. Bayern at home...well, they're Bayern and they'd won every single game up to that point. Very good win. So yeah, I am getting more confident in the team as they're getting results in games which I know a couple of seasons ago we wouldn't have.


After almost a decade he spent on a decent keeper. Well done. Only a decade too late.

Too late for what? Not too late to make a difference this season and it already has. He made an excellent save late vs Everton which kept us 3 points, he kept us in the game yesterday which was a part of earning us a point, same against Bayern at home.

The concern is about squad depth, especially up front. But right now we're level and after 12 games I'd have taken that - given your early season prediction surely you would have too. Last year we were out of the title race before we got going, this year we're not and we've got a run of very winnable games coming up before we play City. All you can ask at this stage of the title race is you're in contention. Right now, we are. You can cite yesterday's result of the same old failings, I can point out that Spurs are a pretty good side right now and other results have shown a difference from other seasons. We can go round and round doing that if you like but ultimately, right now, we're in the mix. While that lasts I'll believe we have a chance.

[Dein-machine]

I cant understand the mentality of people who always argue that where we are as a club is exactly where we ought to be.
We havent won the league in a decade, Next season will come on a decade since we moved into the Emirates, supposedly the start of a new glorious era for the club.
We have ironically stagnated since then. What was the point of the big move then. Progress in order to stay in the same spot. Pool, Everton & Spurs have been in the same spot literally for the same period and they havent shelled out 350m for a new stadium.
Seems we have been the victims of some massive scam or pyramid scheme

It doesn't "seem" so - it simply is so.
The stadium move was supposed to propel us to the top of European football with the additional revenues meaning we wouldn't have to sell out to a foreign billionaire. We took the mickey out of Chavs & Mancs by waving Russian & yank flags!
10 years on we are less of a European great than we were & we are now owned by a billionaire yank & Russian.
But Mr Wenger, the old shareholders & those still on board have prospered greatly during the time where we fans pay more for our season tickets than anywhere else in Europe & watch a team that is a shadow of what we had 10 years ago.

[Dein-machine]

The Spuds who have lost one game all season. They aren't a pushover any more, they've already played and beaten City. Like it or not they're a decent side now.
Agree about some of the concerns about squad depth but I wouldn't write us off just yet. After a shaky start most on here didn't think we'd be anywhere near challenging, after 12 games I'd have taken being level with the top team.

if we think that what we witnessed yesterday can be explained by "Spurs are not a pushover anymore" - what has been the use of the Emirates. We are 10 years on from the stadium move with all the benefits that was supposed to bring but Spurs are actually starting to outplay us in games. I agree the stadium move was necessary & great for the future but the finances are now in place give us a team that would beat teams like Spurs 80% of the time - whats holding us back, our manager.

[Letters]

if we think that what we witnessed yesterday can be explained by "Spurs are not a pushover anymore" - what has been the use of the Emirates. We are 10 years on from the stadium move with all the benefits that was supposed to bring but Spurs are actually starting to outplay us in games. I agree the stadium move was necessary & great for the future but the finances are now in place give us a team that would beat teams like Spurs 80% of the time - whats holding us back, our manager.

How did City, with all their money, get on against Spurs this season?

[Power n Glory]

Far from happy with the performance on Sunday and think we missed an opportunity to go top of the table but we’re still joint top at least. But our last couple of performances show what I mean about this team. There is no point in getting carried away when we beat teams like Utd and Bayern because we always have this sort of performance in us. Not sure how and why we’d fail to turn up for a NLD. Wenger shouldn’t have his players into shape for this sort of game but he may need to.

Some of the talk is a bit premature even if our fall is inevitable. :lol: At least wait until the wheels have actually fallen off. We’ve all had this discussion before and gone over it. At least come from a different angle if we’re going to retrace old ground. We can’t get carried away after a few ins and the same has to be said for setbacks. Certainly not when we’ve faced inform teams and still joint top. It’s one to keep watching.

[Globalgunner]

How did City, with all their money, get on against Spurs this season?

What does one game ever prove.United beat Spurs, Spurs beat city, We beat united, Spuds beat us on our black and blue on our patch. Try and get to the heart of the matter for once instead of writhing and squirming defending Wenger from any imagined slight.

We have won nothing yet, have been in better positions than we are now and still ended up 3rd. Bottom of a CL group that includes two pushover teams. The only team in European football that could not buy an outfield player. All you ever do is argue that things could be worse. Not really, not with a competent, forward thinking manager.

[Dein-machine]

How did City, with all their money, get on against Spurs this season?

How many league titles have City won or contested in the last 5 years - when I refer to us Im talking about a period. Its why unlike you & others, I don't get excited by beating Man Utd 3-0 because I know whats coming next. We don't have to argue - the proof is plain to see for all, Wenger is not able to put together a squad with enough quality to win enough games. We will lose & draw games this year that a side with our resources should be winning - its been this way for a decade. Nothing Wenger has done, especially in the transfer market suggests this year will be any different & performances like the 2 this week (3 if you count the 1st half at Swansea) simply show our weaknesses.
Forget about the results for a minute - what about the quality of football you are watching.

[Letters]

What does one game ever prove.United beat Spurs.
:blink:

You're the one over-reacting to one game :shrug:

We are 10 years on from the stadium move but only 2 years on from the new financial details which have mean the stadium move is working for us - for much of that 10 years we've been hampered by the repayments just at the time the billionaires got involved and started buying up titles. The stadium move was supposed to keep us competitive, I don't think we'd still be in the top 4 had we not moved and the new financial deals have pushed us on, we're signing a higher class of player, the immediate result has been the 2 FA Cups and this year we're keeping pace with City at the top.

I agree with PnG, it's too early to be getting carried away but it's too early to be doom-mongering after dropping 2 points for the first time in 6 league games. For now we're challenging, at this stage of the season that's enough.

[Letters]

We will lose & draw games this year that a side with our resources should be winning.
As will City - see yesterday for more details.

[Letters]

Its why unlike you & others, I don't get excited by beating Man Utd 3-0 because I know whats coming next.
I didn't get 'excited', but I was pleased we won a game which I know that a couple of years ago we'd have lost.
A team we've got a poor record against who are a top 4 rival and who were 3 points above us when we played them.
Would we have won that a couple of a few years back? Would we balls.

So things like that - and it's not the only one - are tentative signs that we might finally properly challenge this year. Whether we will remains to be seen but we're level with City right now, I think we'd have all taken that at the start of the season. While we stay in touch I'm not going to hand in the towel. If you want to then go nuts.

[Dein-machine]

As will City - see yesterday for more details.

yes - as did Chelsea last year but not on the same scale as us - we all know that quality = points, its why we would normally beat the lesser clubs. The lack of quality we have, so obvious with the likes of Merts & Giroud results in less points than the teams with quality in these areas - quite simple really. We can all see the added quality that Ozil & Sanchez brings, why then would we not want top quality defender & a striker. If Giroud or Walcott are good enough as strikers, why bother with Sanchez just give Campbell the left hand role. Where would we have been last year if that was the case?

[Dein-machine]

I didn't get 'excited', but I was pleased we won a game which I know that a couple of years ago we'd have lost.
A team we've got a poor record against who are a top 4 rival and who were 3 points above us when we played them.
Would we have won that a couple of a few years back? Would we balls.

So things like that - and it's not the only one - are tentative signs that we might finally properly challenge this year. Whether we will remains to be seen but we're level with City right now, I think we'd have all taken that at the start of the season. While we stay in touch I'm not going to hand in the towel. If you want to then go nuts.

Don't understand why you look at individual games so much. So we beat Utd, didn't do that very much a few years back. - We got outplayed by the Spuds yesterday & couldn't beat them in 2 league games last year. a few years back we were beating them every game - don't understand where your logic is coming from. We are the only team Chelsea have spanked this year, took our worst ever European beating last week - you are so single minded when it comes to these things its actually funny.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Flamini isn't shit either. He's just not title winning quality. But damn glad we had him yesterday, he got stuck in and stemmed the bleeding. He also got the goals last time we played the spuds. Shame a few of the other players, like that bloke we have up top who couldn't hit the Boeing factory from 6 inches, and the 1110 who stepped out to stroll the first half don't have the same enthusiasm as Flamini. We'd be flying if they did.

EDIT: Should be 10 not 11 because Cech is always a professional and it stands out a mile.

What you just said there is the problem with the english game. if you around a lot then people think you are doing a good job. yesterday Dellie ali was given MOTM because he ran around a lot yet if you compare his stats to Ozil he wasnt even on the same pitch. Ozil created more chances, had better pass completion, completed more take ons and made more tackles, and ran further I believe yet because he doenst "look" like he is running around he cant be very good whereas if you look like you run around a lot, then it makes you good. The fact taht the media are now praising Ali for his game and give Ozil 4/5 out of 10 sums them up.

Several players actually did turn up all game, Monreal was always running, making tackles and helping the attacks, Sanchez never hid nor did Giroud. Ozil was creating chances easily (third time this season he has created 7 chances in a game) but just because they didnt look like they were running around like lunatics which is what Flamini does so well, you dont think they are putting in effort.

[Özim]

What you just said there is the problem with the english game. if you around a lot then people think you are doing a good job. yesterday Dellie ali was given MOTM because he ran around a lot yet if you compare his stats to Ozil he wasnt even on the same pitch. Ozil created more chances, had better pass completion, completed more take ons and made more tackles, and ran further I believe yet because he doenst "look" like he is running around he cant be very good whereas if you look like you run around a lot, then it makes you good. The fact taht the media are now praising Ali for his game and give Ozil 4/5 out of 10 sums them up.

Several players actually did turn up all game, Monreal was always running, making tackles and helping the attacks, Sanchez never hid nor did Giroud. Ozil was creating chances easily (third time this season he has created 7 chances in a game) but just because they didnt look like they were running around like lunatics which is what Flamini does so well, you dont think they are putting in effort.

Now I'm a big fan of Ozil and think he's a great player (always have) but the fact is we were played off the park yesterday so on that basis you'd have to pick a Spurs player as MOTM, they dominated for large parts and at time we could barely get ouf our half, we were poor in most departments and got out of jail with a draw.

[Letters]

Don't understand why you look at individual games so much.
I hope you appreciate the irony of you then going on to talk about some individual games...

And I don't, but there are some individual games which I know we wouldn't have won a few years back, we're starting to get results in them now. If it's a one off then yeah, so what, but I've given a few examples - enough to have some optimism that we're getting better in that regard.

And Chelsea didn't spank us :rolleyes: It was 0-0 till Mike Dean stuck his oar in and handed them the points, even then it was only 1-0 when Dean sent off the 2nd player, just to make sure they got the points. Even at the time people were pretty much unanimous in agreeing that we can't conclude anything about our chances from that result.

End of the day we're 12 games in and we're level at the top, that's the only thing that matters right now. I think we'd all have taken that at the start of the season.

[Letters]

Now I'm a big fan of Ozil and think he's a great player (always have) but the fact is we were played off the park yesterday so on that basis you'd have to pick a Spurs player as MOTM, they dominated for large parts and at time we could barely get ouf our half, we were poor in most departments and got out of jail with a draw.

There were times when Spurs dominated but there were times we did too. They really didn't play us off the park, it was a great game that ebbed and flowed and both teams had spells of dominance. Overall we had 55% possession to their 45% and 10 chances to their 14 (4 on target each).

[selassie]

I personally think we can challenge for the title this season but I have reservations about whether we will last the distance or win it.

Our biggest problem at the moment is injuries because it's decimating our squad, we're not unlucky and it's not a new thing because the same set of players are "crocked" every single season!

We must be doing something wrong in training to get all of these muscular injuries.

I personally think if we don't get bodies back fast then the collapse will start quite soon, we look very dodgy at the moment with so many players out injured and IMO our performance levels will only rise when the competition for places hotens up.

Also think that Wenger messed up in the summer not adding quality depth to the squad or replacing the dross we currently have that bring us down a level when they are called upon.

We are a big club, big clubs have hot competition for places in every single area of the squad.

[Dein-machine]

I personally think we can challenge for the title this season but I have reservations about whether we will last the distance or win it.

Our biggest problem at the moment is injuries because it's decimating our squad, we're not unlucky and it's not a new thing because the same set of players are "crocked" every single season!

We must be doing something wrong in training to get all of these muscular injuries.

I personally think if we don't get bodies back fast then the collapse will start quite soon, we look very dodgy at the moment with so many players out injured and IMO our performance levels will only rise when the competition for places hotens up.

yep - but we knew this pre-season & we will know it next season & do nothing about it whilst Wumger is in charge. Its like saying " Do you reckon Theo will get injured again & be out for few months" - We all know the answer is yes but we do nothing about it, so when he is injured we have nobody to add his type of pace to our attack. Wumger simply refuses to learn from previous mistakes.

[Özim]

We won't win the title and here's why, he's called Aguero and is about a million levels above anything we have, when he plays City are a different kettle of fish, Wenger has chosen to stick with forwards who have proved their not good enough to win you the title and he'll pay for that.

People might be hopeful, but we've been in far better positions before (5 points clear in the new year) and still found a way to lose it, I just don't see this team from what t it's shown this season being capable of winning any major trophy, recent results are showing that for every good result there's a poor one just round the corner, nothing we've done this season suggests we're championship material and the thrashing by Bayern and awful performance against Spurs cements that belief for me.

As Henry had said, we should have won that if we were the real deal, winning when you play badly is a sign of champions, not scraping a lucky win at home.

[Kano]

I said at the beginning of the season I didn't think we had what he takes to win the title. In most campaigns, this squad wouldn't be good enough. And then Chelsea went to shit, Utd are only grinding their way to slow increments of improvement and City have proved vulnerable despite their squad. So I started to doubt my early season assertion and think this is portably our best opportunity in a while, despite our squads failings.

I still have big doubts over Wenger's ability to manage the squad throughout the campaign and if pushed on an answer right now, I'd say no we won't win it. But I want to enjoy a season of football, especially given how much of my time I give to talking about and watching it. It would be completely shit to not have any hope at all every weekend, not able to enjoy beating Utd or beating Bayern Munich. Even if we fall flat on our face again at the end of the season I would look back on those games fondly.

All I want is for us to challenge every season, winning the title would be the icing on the cake of course but all any (well most) fans ask for is watching their team yet their hardest to win each game.

I think we've got that this season from the players, regardless of whatever level of antipathy many of us feel toward the manager. Of course, we've been here before and fallen away a few times and May is some distance away but I'm trying to judge the club on what I can see right now, rather than lean back on where I was three months ago, mostly because it's far less stressful and so far, they've proven me wrong, so I'm up for that continuing if it can.

[LDG]

Dunno where I am with it.

I desperately want to believe we can win it, but there have been so many opportunities wasted, I just can't see it.

We've seen some genuinely excellent performances this year, and arguably the most competent first eleven for a long time. The team spirit and work ethic are much better, and Wenger seems to be prepared to put tactics before fancy football on occassion.

That said, we've had some shockers too. Wenger also refused to go out and spend on reliable back up in the summer, chosing to play a game of chance.

That, to me, showed again that he isn't prepared do absolutely everything to win at all costs.

And that is why we will fall short, because Wenger won't pull out every stop to get us there.

I hope he proves me wrong.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We have a realistic chance because we're most likely to be against Man City and even when they've won it, they've still been quite flakey.

If they can conspire on failing to score against Villa who let's face it, are absolute crap; it's hardly a great sign for them.

[Letters]

We won't win the title and here's why, he's called Aguero and is about a million levels above anything we have, when he plays City are a different kettle of fish, Wenger has chosen to stick with forwards who have proved their not good enough to win you the title and he'll pay for that.

As a striker he's a lot better than anything weve got up front but overall I don't agree he's better than anything we've got. Giroud may not win you the title (although he's done pretty well so far this season) but people like Ozil and Sanchez could. Even Cech - he was a big part of getting us a point on Sunday and he made a good late save against Everton which kept us the 3 points. Things like that add up over a season. You may ultimately be right about us longer term but so far we're challenging and right now that's all you can ask. We've been winning the sorts of games you need to be winning if you're going to compete. Utd at home was a good one - we'd have messed that up a few seasons back.

Right now we're doing a lot better than most on here predicted - certainly after the West Ham game when far too many were throwing in the towel. So long as we stay in touch I'll believe we have a chance.

[Gooner23]

This is certainly our best chance for years as no team is particularly convincing. I refuse to get my hopes up though, just always have that nagging doubt we'll blow it.

Don't think yesterday's result will be season defining, I was OK with the point given the circumstances. Previous years we would definitely have lost that. It's what we do after Xmas when the pressure is really on which worries the hell out of me.

[IBK]

We won't win the title and here's why, he's called Aguero and is about a million levels above anything we have, when he plays City are a different kettle of fish, Wenger has chosen to stick with forwards who have proved their not good enough to win you the title and he'll pay for that.

People might be hopeful, but we've been in far better positions before (5 points clear in the new year) and still found a way to lose it, I just don't see this team from what t it's shown this season being capable of winning any major trophy, recent results are showing that for every good result there's a poor one just round the corner, nothing we've done this season suggests we're championship material and the thrashing by Bayern and awful performance against Spurs cements that belief for me.

As Henry had said, we should have won that if we were the real deal, winning when you play badly is a sign of champions, not scraping a lucky win at home.

Hmmm. I'm not sure we should be looking at other teams for reasons why we won't win. City are flakey despite their talent. This weekend's result is a case in point - it was a mush worse point for them than us. The Chavs are out of it. Manure are living up to their name - and their good luck is unlikely to hold. Liverpool are a work in progress and Spurs....don't make me laugh. IMHO this season more than any other, its our lamentable injury record that'll do for us. Its a shame - because I think Wenger has evolved, and the team with all players available is a much better balanced and capable one than we have had in years. But they will never, ever be available on a consistent basis - and sooner or later Sanchez will die given his stupid workload.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger probably has evolved, dragged along kicking and screaming partly in response to the long standing realisation (for everyone bar himself) his Barca-lite dream was never going to deliver and partly by blind luck. But his evolution is still offset by stunning mistakes. He's the reason we are struggling in the CL again, for instance. He's also the reason we haven't fully taken advantage of the possibilities this season and are still relying on a second tier player in the most important position on the pitch. Will Giroud's misses cost us? Depends if other players can pick up the slack and compensate. But why should we be in that position anyway? We had the need, we had the money, we just didn't have the will.

[Globalgunner]

Wenger has evolved? A man who looks at his pot pourri of average semi crocked and perma crocked players and nods his head. Says " All I need now is a keeper to challenge Ospina". We will know ny end of January if he has eveolved or not. No buys no chance. Hey Wilshere coming back will just be like......
Sorry I cant bring myself to say it.

[Power n Glory]

I personally think we can challenge for the title this season but I have reservations about whether we will last the distance or win it.

Our biggest problem at the moment is injuries because it's decimating our squad, we're not unlucky and it's not a new thing because the same set of players are "crocked" every single season!

We must be doing something wrong in training to get all of these muscular injuries.

I personally think if we don't get bodies back fast then the collapse will start quite soon, we look very dodgy at the moment with so many players out injured and IMO our performance levels will only rise when the competition for places hotens up.

Also think that Wenger messed up in the summer not adding quality depth to the squad or replacing the dross we currently have that bring us down a level when they are called upon.

We are a big club, big clubs have hot competition for places in every single area of the squad.

That's how I feel. We have been here before and it may be a case of deja vu. Just waiting for another key player to pick up an injury after the international break. Once again all eyes are on the January window. If we don't sign players for back up we're going to repeat the same mistake we made in 2013/14 season. I think this is the 4th time we've been faced with this scenario. We're in the mix for the title but our wafer thin squad is breaking apart already. Will we learn from the past or just continue down the same road?

[Power n Glory]

Hmmm. I'm not sure we should be looking at other teams for reasons why we won't win. City are flakey despite their talent. This weekend's result is a case in point - it was a mush worse point for them than us. The Chavs are out of it. Manure are living up to their name - and their good luck is unlikely to hold. Liverpool are a work in progress and Spurs....don't make me laugh. IMHO this season more than any other, its our lamentable injury record that'll do for us. Its a shame - because I think Wenger has evolved, and the team with all players available is a much better balanced and capable one than we have had in years. But they will never, ever be available on a consistent basis - and sooner or later Sanchez will die given his stupid workload.

I never thought we'd have seen this sort of scenario again so soon. Our rivals are looking really weak. It's even better than the time Fergie retired and appointed Moyes. It had a great chance then and an even better chance this season.

[IBK]

Wenger has evolved? A man who looks at his pot pourri of average semi crocked and perma crocked players and nods his head. Says " All I need now is a keeper to challenge Ospina". We will know ny end of January if he has eveolved or not. No buys no chance. Hey Wilshere coming back will just be like......
Sorry I cant bring myself to say it.

Whisper it quietly, but I think he has evolved to a degree. The Walcott/Giroud alternative was giving us a plan B, as was conceding possession and playing on the counter - and even Sunday's 'new' tactic of popping balls into the box for Giroud - something Bellerin has been good at as well - is something we haven't really seen before...

[selassie]

That's how I feel. We have been here before and it may be a case of deja vu. Just waiting for another key player to pick up an injury after the international break. Once again all eyes are on the January window. If we don't sign players for back up we're going to repeat the same mistake we made in 2013/14 season. I think this is the 4th time we've been faced with this scenario. We're in the mix for the title but our wafer thin squad is breaking apart already. Will we learn from the past or just continue down the same road?

Been offline a few days.

Yeah, we've definitely been here before regarding the mounting injuries affecting our title challenge. I personally think Wenger won't learn and will risk the season by pushing the squad to the max. To be fair, when we have a fully fit squad we are as good as anybody in the division, we have strength in depth in pretty much every position and it's pretty high quality too. I'm not going to turn this into a Wenger out kind of debate, but his undoing will be his principled stance on hoping we get bodies back. If the likes of Wilshere and Welbeck are out for the season then they are going to need replacing in the January window, no ifs or buts, they will need replacing with players of similar quality. We are not in the position of being able to juggle players around because outside of them two we already have a core of players who are perpetual crocks, we all know who they are.

Like others have said including yourself, if these injuries continue then we can wave goodbye to any credible title challenge.

[Kano]

Wenger won't buy in January to replace any injured players on a short term basis. Even if we view them as regular crocks, we should know by now that he will see things differently. What typically happens is everyone comes back in March, giving us a full strength squad when it is too late to push on in the league, which is why we generally finish strong.

We also saw with Diaby how long he sticks by a player in the belief he will eventually get beyond his ailments, so I don't expect him to shift any of this lot on either. With Bellerin, Ramsey, Theo and Ox all due back this month, Wilshere coming back next month and Welbeck and Rosicky in January, Wenger won't see the need to buy more players.

[selassie]

Wenger won't buy in January to replace any injured players on a short term basis. Even if we view them as regular crocks, we should know by now that he will see things differently. What typically happens is everyone comes back in March, giving us a full strength squad when it is too late to push on in the league, which is why we generally finish strong.

We also saw with Diaby how long he sticks by a player in the belief he will eventually get beyond his ailments, so I don't expect him to shift any of this lot on either. With Bellerin, Ramsey, Theo and Ox all due back this month, Wilshere coming back next month and Welbeck and Rosicky in January, Wenger won't see the need to buy more players.

Of course, one of the reasons why I truly don't think we'll make that jump forward with Wenger in charge. Things have got better, the current team he has built whilst not without flaws is competitive up to a point, however for the reasons you have listed and it's not the only reason, I think this is what stops us truly moving forward and evolving into a team that regularly and credibly challenges for trophies domestically and in Europe.