Match Reaction: Arsenal 3 Zagreb 0

[Kano]

Well someone had to.

A few goals, back to winning ways ahead of the weekend, no injuries, Alexis scoring again and Ramsey back in the fold.

[Ernesto]

Will any kind of win at olympiakos suffice, or does it have to be by two clear goals? (Or more goals than they scored at the Emirates, meaning we could go through by beating them 3-4 in Greece?)

What happens if the scoreline is a 3-2 away win, matching the score when they played here?

[Kano]

Has to be by two goals at least, meaning we have to better their victory over us which was by one goal.

[Chippy]

Has to be by two goals at least, meaning we have to better their victory over us which was by one goal.
That's us fucked then.

[tpyo]

I'm pretty sure that if we score 3 goals and win then we're guaranteed to qualify because we have better goal difference. So the two goals clear only means that 2-1 and 1-0 are no good. Any other victory score means we qualify.
I always figure that as long its in our hands (which it is) then we will do it.

[Niall_Quinn]

If we play like we did tonight, with the same attitude, pace and energy, we'll piss all over Olympiacos. But if we slack off just a bit we are out and suffer the double whammy of the Europa League. We could have won by 5 tonight. I think we'll win by a decent margin over in Greece. They'll play it super defensively so we'll have to be focused and ruthless in front of goal. Plus we may have a few players back, if more don't get injured.

Ozil was superb tonight. He's starting to deliver the kind of other worldly performances we all hoped for when he signed. The guy glides on the ball and seems capable of turning in two directions at once. And he's never flustered when opponents are pressing. Alexis' energy was spectacular, Santi grew into the came and put in a good performance overall and Campbell was very lively. More of the same needed in Greece.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

We will do it but I'm not too fussed if we do finish third

[Munchies]

If we play like we did tonight, with the same attitude, pace and energy, we'll piss all over Olympiacos. But if we slack off just a bit we are out and suffer the double whammy of the Europa League. We could have won by 5 tonight. I think we'll win by a decent margin over in Greece. They'll play it super defensively so we'll have to be focused and ruthless in front of goal. Plus we may have a few players back, if more don't get injured.

Ozil was superb tonight. He's starting to deliver the kind of other worldly performances we all hoped for when he signed. The guy glides on the ball and seems capable of turning in two directions at once. And he's never flustered when opponents are pressing. Alexis' energy was spectacular, Santi grew into the came and put in a good performance overall and Campbell was very lively. More of the same needed in Greece.

:gp:

Ozil :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

Heroic 0-1 win coming up.

[selassie]

We played well tonight, really good solid energetic performance. As NQ said Ozil was superb, has been all season.

[AFC Leveller]

Good performance, good goals and the two world class players we have showed what they are about.

Can we beat Olympiacos? yes, every single day of the week. However, our record there is kinda shite and the fact that they beat us already and dont actually need to win will give them something to hold on to.

We have been here before, we go away needing a 2-0 win, we score early, miss chances and bow out as "heroes".

[Letters]

Heroic 0-1 win coming up.

Nah.

Bayern beat Olympiacos 3-0 away, we beat Bayern 2-0.
If my maths is right that means we're due to win there 5-0 and qualify

:cool:

[IBK]

Wow. So few comments on last night. Sums it up a bit really. And the reason I think is that so many Gooners half expected an emphatic result last night, followed by a heroic near miss in Greece. I know this sounds negative, but the problem is that our team's serial inconsistency breeds a lack of expection.

I loved seeing our players turn it on last night, but even the required win at Olympiacos will mean little unless we can start to impose ourselves regularly, and show that we have lost our tendency to implode and are able to function effectively with key players missing. Last night was a start. Again. But I've lost count of the times that we have been in this position (of thinking that we can build on a convincing result) only to be disappointed a few matches later.

[selassie]

Wow. So few comments on last night. Sums it up a bit really. And the reason I think is that so many Gooners half expected an emphatic result last night, followed by a heroic near miss in Greece. I know this sounds negative, but the problem is that our team's serial inconsistency breeds a lack of expection.

I loved seeing our players turn it on last night, but even the required win at Olympiacos will mean little unless we can start to impose ourselves regularly, and show that we have lost our tendency to implode and are able to function effectively with key players missing. Last night was a start. Again. But I've lost count of the times that we have been in this position (of thinking that we can build on a convincing result) only to be disappointed a few matches later.

Last night was a really good performance but I'm still not convinced we'll do what we need to do in Greece. We've left ourselves in a similar-ish position to last season when we needed to produce the goods in Monaco and we fell short. Admittedly the task is a little easier this time round in as much as we need to win by 2 and we are playing a slightly weaker opposition.

To be brutally honest even if we do qualify we are there just in CL to make up the numbers. I was thinking last night we're miles behind the elite in CL these days (Barca & Bayern), sure...we can give either a good game at home but over 2 legs both teams would destroy us IMO. I also think we're behind Real, PSG and possibly Juve so we have quite a small chance of progressing beyond the last 16 if we do make it through.

[IBK]

Last night was a really good performance but I'm still not convinced we'll do what we need to do in Greece. We've left ourselves in a similar-ish position to last season when we needed to produce the goods in Monaco and we fell short. Admittedly the task is a little easier this time round in as much as we need to win by 2 and we are playing a slightly weaker opposition.

To be brutally honest even if we do qualify we are there just in CL to make up the numbers. I was thinking last night we're miles behind the elite in CL these days (Barca & Bayern), sure...we can give either a good game at home but over 2 legs both teams would destroy us IMO. I also think we're behind Real, PSG and possibly Juve so we have quite a small chance of progressing beyond the last 16 if we do make it through.

Sums my thoughts up perfectly, mate. And I'm afraid that this is where we are at as a club. Its often so near but so far for us in Europe, and we've seen nothing this season to suggest any different.

[Niall_Quinn]

Can somebody at the club get inside the players' heads and let them know that last night is the level of performance we need every game and in every competition? Can Wenger do that? He needs to if we are going to get anything out of this season. It's very, very frustrating when you see the team play the way they did last night. Pace, energy, determination to hustle and win the ball back, movement, players wanting the ball, accuracy with the passing, accurate crosses some decent crosses, moving the ball forwards up the pitch fast, players getting up and down the pitch to mix offensive duties with defensive. Zagreb are not a poor team, in the few moments where they got some sort of grip on what was going on they showed they have a bit about them too. But they couldn't handle what we were about.

This is what makes supporting this club frustrating and this is why the fans at Stoke and West Brom and Norwich can fuck off when they say we are precious or spoiled and they'd give a left nut to be where we are. Fact is we're under-performing, season after season, and performances like this and the Utd game and the second half against Swansea and so on show it. How is that shitty performance against the spuds or against Brom last week explained away when we know the team can play like this?

This question, plus the ridiculous injury situation, are jobs for the manager to work on and fix. Time for him to earn his keep. With the gypos fucking up all over the place (and that won't last forever), the chavs out of it and a shitty Utd, if we can't do it this season then when? Should Wenger be getting praise because we played so well last night? No, not in my book, because it asks the question what the fuck was going on the rest of the time. And for those who think a team can't be on top of their game all the time, fair enough, the odd slip will happen. But it has to be the odd slip, an aberration. It can't be 50% of the time - unacceptable.

We play like this against Norwich and we'll destroy them. If we don't play like this against Norwich then Wenger needs to be answering some serious questions and the players will need to take a look at themselves and their wallets and the expectant faces of the fans and ask themselves a few hard questions too.

No more fucking around. Let's get this won.

[milla]

Can somebody at the club get inside the players' heads and let them know that last night is the level of performance we need every game and in every competition? Can Wenger do that? He needs to if we are going to get anything out of this season. It's very, very frustrating when you see the team play the way they did last night. Pace, energy, determination to hustle and win the ball back, movement, players wanting the ball, accuracy with the passing, accurate crosses some decent crosses, moving the ball forwards up the pitch fast, players getting up and down the pitch to mix offensive duties with defensive. Zagreb are not a poor team, in the few moments where they got some sort of grip on what was going on they showed they have a bit about them too. But they couldn't handle what we were about.

This is what makes supporting this club frustrating and this is why the fans at Stoke and West Brom and Norwich can fuck off when they say we are precious or spoiled and they'd give a left nut to be where we are. Fact is we're under-performing, season after season, and performances like this and the Utd game and the second half against Swansea and so on show it. How is that shitty performance against the spuds or against Brom last week explained away when we know the team can play like this?

This question, plus the ridiculous injury situation, are jobs for the manager to work on and fix. Time for him to earn his keep. With the gypos fucking up all over the place (and that won't last forever), the chavs out of it and a shitty Utd, if we can't do it this season then when? Should Wenger be getting praise because we played so well last night? No, not in my book, because it asks the question what the fuck was going on the rest of the time. And for those who think a team can't be on top of their game all the time, fair enough, the odd slip will happen. But it has to be the odd slip, an aberration. It can't be 50% of the time - unacceptable.

We play like this against Norwich and we'll destroy them. If we don't play like this against Norwich then Wenger needs to be answering some serious questions and the players will need to take a look at themselves and their wallets and the expectant faces of the fans and ask themselves a few hard questions too.

No more fucking around. Let's get this won.

http://sportzwiki.com/uploads/featuredImg/498/Wenger3.jpg

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01366/arsenewenger_1366817a.jpg

[Bumble]

Arsenal are 15/8 to qualify from the group which I think is pretty decent odds as I would imagine we will do the business in Greece in a couple of weeks although I fancy we will need to score 3. Olympiakos are not a good side we were just embarrassing on the night. Zagreb aren't good and we comfortably won last night.

In a couple of weeks Ramsey, Ox and Walcott could all be available to give us some options which would be nice.

[Özim]

Good win but make no mistake they are nothing special, so this results is only what we should expect.

We should beat Olympiakos as again they are nothing special but you never know with us, having said that when 4th place or last 16 is up for grabs we always manage to scrape home so it wouldn't surprise me if we do, once we get there though expect the customary spanking from one of the games giants.

Have to say to have lost 3 games and performed as badly as we have done and still qualify would reflect poorly on the competition, a side that has performed as badly as we have shouldn't have the opportunity to advance.

[Letters]

Have to say to have lost 3 games and performed as badly as we have done and still qualify would reflect poorly on the competition, a side that has performed as badly as we have shouldn't have the opportunity to advance.
If you finish in the top 2 you deserve to advance :shrug:
We only have the chance to because we beat Bayern - something no-one else has done this season, in fact they've won every game but 2 this year, a recent 0-0 in the league and when we beat them. I don't think that result should be underestimated.
If we qualify we'll have deserved to.

Edit: As for Olympiacos not being all that, they've won every game this year - I guess the Greek league isn't that strong but they've not just won every league game, they've won every CL game too apart from the 2 vs Bayern who...are quite good.
A 2-0 win out there would be a pretty good result.

[Seymour Butts]

If you finish in the top 2 you deserve to advance :shrug:
We only have the chance to because we beat Bayern - something no-one else has done this season, in fact they've won every game but 2 this year, a recent 0-0 in the league and when we beat them. I don't think that result should be underestimated.
If we qualify we'll have deserved to.

Edit: As for Olympiacos not being all that, they've won every game this year - I guess the Greek league isn't that strong but they've not just won every league game, they've won every CL game too apart from the 2 vs Bayern who...are quite good.
A 2-0 win out there would be a pretty good result.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/12015230/Mesut-Ozil-is-carrying-Arsenal-just-like-Alexis-Sanchez-did-last-year.html

Ozil also made kore tackles than Flamini last night! :d

[fakeyank]

Can somebody at the club get inside the players' heads and let them know that last night is the level of performance we need every game and in every competition? Can Wenger do that? He needs to if we are going to get anything out of this season. It's very, very frustrating when you see the team play the way they did last night. Pace, energy, determination to hustle and win the ball back, movement, players wanting the ball, accuracy with the passing, accurate crosses some decent crosses, moving the ball forwards up the pitch fast, players getting up and down the pitch to mix offensive duties with defensive.

:gp:

I am more frustrated with last nights result than happy, and the above post is exactly the reason why! To me, the PL is our realistic target of a major trophy this season and we showed none of that against West Brom. Anybody who says otherwise did not watch the game against West Brom... the lethargic ball movement, lack of energy and ideas was just baffling on Saturday (especially when you consider that we were losing)! WTF happened since Saturday and why is this trend so common at Arsenal?! It happens season after season without explanation... one game we play like we could realistically beat the best teams in the world and the next we look like all we ever learnt to do was pass sideways!

I will try and not get my hopes up after such a brilliant performance yesterday.. just leads to more disappointment.

[Letters]

Do you really think that only happens to us? Maybe the issue is how often it happens, I think that's very hard to quantify objectively.

[fakeyank]

Do you really think that only happens to us? Maybe the issue is how often it happens, I think that's very hard to quantify objectively.

Should Arsenal be measuring their success based on the failures of others? I do not care that Chelsea are 15th in the table or that City got thumped by Liverpool, I care about why my club cannot put out players who play their hearts out every game. I understand defeats happen, what I will not accept is lack of effort and what happened on Saturday was just criminal. More importantly, this wasnt a 'one off' thing for us.. this happens every season.

[Letters]

Should Arsenal be measuring their success based on the failures of others?
It's a competitive sport so our success or failure is directly related to other team's successes or failures.
So yes, it's relevant.

NQ's call for the desire we showed last night in every game is commendable but anyone who has ever watched sport knows that isn't possible, physically, emotionally, whatever. No team ever plays with the same intensity every game.

So when you say why do we do what we did on Saturday, my answer is because that's how sport is and every team does it in every season. Maybe we do it too often, but we haven't so far this season, if we had we wouldn't be competing. Whether we'll do it too often remains to be seen.

[Niall_Quinn]

NQ's call for the desire we showed last night in every game is commendable but anyone who has ever watched sport knows that isn't possible, physically, emotionally, whatever. No team ever plays with the same intensity every game.

I actually said, "And for those who think a team can't be on top of their game all the time, fair enough, the odd slip will happen. But it has to be the odd slip, an aberration. It can't be 50% of the time - unacceptable."

And it's true. At least 50% of the time we plod. This must be down to the manager and his staff. We all know what it's like to have to get your head in gear or do a shitty job that has been put-off. Highly disciplined people will motivate themselves. For the rest of us we'll wing it unless there's a nasty fucker imposing a deadline with sanctions attached. Those players shouldn't have a choice in the matter, they should be wound up and ready to go every time they step on a pitch. That's one of the manager's key roles. But we know what our guy is like - he "trusts" his players. That's nice and all but we see the result in so many games where we don't turn up. Individual talent drags us through most of those games games, rather than a collective performance. And on the occasions where nobody is up for it we lose at home to Olympiacos. Or worse, we get a hammering. The manager needs to sort this shit out.

[fakeyank]

Maybe we do it too often, but we haven't so far this season, if we had we wouldn't be competing. Whether we'll do it too often remains to be seen.

Its not a may be, it is a definite we do it too often. If we didnt, we'd have at least challenged for the PL come the end of the season in the last 10 years. Its especially horrible when it comes from a club charging an arm and a leg from fans.

And there will be dips in form by some players over the course of a season, but to see ALL the players playing like shit on Saturday and then the same lot playing like Champions on a Tuesday is baffling to me. Shows a lack of direction and leadership from the management. I like to compare our situation to someone who was the best in the business (Sir Alex) and then think "If he was our manager, would he tolerate the same crap? Would his teams go through the motions in one game and turn up the other, and he be ok with it?"

The answer to that thought tells me where the problem for the club is. It's been out in the open for some time now and people are just taking their time to get used to it. It'll happen eventually, inshahallah..

[Globalgunner]

If the manager is not motivated indeed driven by the need to succeed then you will hardly find it in the players. A manager who is only motivated by job perpetuity, takes solace in bad luck and unfair playing environment. Will only deliver the bare minimum to satisfy the bosses upstairs. When you now have the misfortune of being owned by Mediocre Sam Kroenke, well that just kills it. The talented players will endure...for a while. Lets see what happens if we dont win anything this season.

[Letters]

And it's true. At least 50% of the time we plod.
Rubbish.

It's arguable we do it too often but 50% of the time.
That's just one of those 87% of statistics that's made up on the spot.

[IBK]

It's a competitive sport so our success or failure is directly related to other team's successes or failures.
So yes, it's relevant.

NQ's call for the desire we showed last night in every game is commendable but anyone who has ever watched sport knows that isn't possible, physically, emotionally, whatever. No team ever plays with the same intensity every game.

So when you say why do we do what we did on Saturday, my answer is because that's how sport is and every team does it in every season. Maybe we do it too often, but we haven't so far this season, if we had we wouldn't be competing. Whether we'll do it too often remains to be seen.

2 points. Firstly regarding other teams' performances - you can't have it both ways. You are fond of citing the financial muscle of the likes of Citeh and Manure as a reason why we have an uphill battle to win the league. If you want to point out that we are currently doing OK in relation to our competitors, then you need also to concede that the bar is unusually low this season in terms of the relative strengths of most of the top teams. Citeh have had injury problems, and are punching below their weight after a strong start; Manure are scraping wins while playing shite football that does not justify the enormous investment they have made. We all know what has happened hilariously to last year's champions, and Liverpool seem to be recovering after a piss poor start to the season.

What most Gooners are frustrated by is that instead of exploiting this situation, our inconsistency has seen us sink to the level of the competition. Implosions against West Ham; the Chavs and West Brom have seen us drop avoidable points, and flat performances against Liverpool and Spurs - 2 games that you would have expected our players to be very motivated for - have caused disappointment.

Of course teams will drop unexpected points, and we will not always reach the levels of Wednesday, or Manure at home. But when you see what our players are capable of when focussed and motivated, it is completely fair to ask why such performances still seem the exception rather than the norm.

Unlike recent seasons, we have 3 world class players in key areas of the pitch who have remained fit for pretty the whole season to date. We have a more settled squad than most, and clearly have the ability to turn it on - against different types of team - when we want to. I think it is fair enough to expect more from Arsenal than we have seen so far.

[Letters]

Its not a may be, it is a definite we do it too often. If we didnt, we'd have at least challenged for the PL come the end of the season in the last 10 years.
I'm not sure that's valid, for much of the last 10 years we've not had the resources to challenge the big boys properly. It's only in the last couple of years we've had the new financial muscle, the new level of signings have made a clear difference. We should have challenged last year, we got off to an awful start which gave us no chance. This year we've not done that, we're in touch and I think we've got a chance. The concern for me is not the mentality - I've highlighted endlessly the hopeful signs I've seen about that - it's the over-reliance on a couple of key players and the perennial injury problems.

[Power n Glory]

Is that really different from any other season? The fact that we’re so dependent on a few key players to perform suggests there is a mentality a problem. Far too many of these players switch off. I won’t even start with the injury problems. This is a very boring conversation and I think people are just sick of the merry go round…hence the lack of comments. Tired of seeing the team play great for a few games as if the light has finally switched on to then see them fall back into old habits. It’s why I can’t get too excited with the wins against the bigger clubs. After the Bayern and Utd games, I knew we’d have this sort of patch where we look like a completely different team. It’s tiring.

[Letters]

What most Gooners are frustrated by is that instead of exploiting this situation, our inconsistency has seen us sink to the level of the competition. Implosions against West Ham; the Chavs and West Brom have seen us drop avoidable points, and flat performances against Liverpool and Spurs - 2 games that you would have expected our players to be very motivated for - have caused disappointment.
The Chavs?
Behave...
It was 0-0 till Mike Dean took charge. I'm not having that.
The other two, fine - but these things happen, they happen to every team in every season. That's football.

I didn't see the Liverpool game although from what I remember we had a perfectly good Ramsey goal chalked off for offside that evening.
The Spurs game...well I did see that one and like it or not Spurs are irritatingly good this season. They've only lost once in the league this season and you can see why. There was a perception that they hammered us, I don't agree. We had 55% possession, had as many on target chances as them. We could have lost it but we could have won it too, it was a good derby game which ebbed and flowed, I don't have too many complaints about our performance that day.
I can't agree that our good performances are the exception rather than the norm. As for what our reasonable expectations are, I expect us to be competing for the biggest prizes. So far we're in the title race, so for now I'm reasonably content. If we continue to have too many "West Broms" then I'll agree that's not good enough, while we're there or thereabouts though I'll believe we have a chance of winning the title. I don't expect us to sweep all before us but I do expect us to compete, we didn't last year but the FA Cup retention mitigated that somewhat, this year there are no excuses.

[Letters]

Is that really different from any other season?
Well, we'll find out in May. I've endlessly gone over some of the hopeful signs I see but the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
So long as we're in the mix I'll believe we have a chance.

[IBK]

I'm not sure that's valid, for much of the last 10 years we've not had the resources to challenge the big boys properly. It's only in the last couple of years we've had the new financial muscle, the new level of signings have made a clear difference. We should have challenged last year, we got off to an awful start which gave us no chance. This year we've not done that, we're in touch and I think we've got a chance. The concern for me is not the mentality - I've highlighted endlessly the hopeful signs I've seen about that - it's the over-reliance on a couple of key players and the perennial injury problems.


I'm not sure that's valid, for much of the last 10 years we've not had the resources to challenge the big boys properly. It's only in the last couple of years we've had the new financial muscle, the new level of signings have made a clear difference. We should have challenged last year, we got off to an awful start which gave us no chance. This year we've not done that, we're in touch and I think we've got a chance. The concern for me is not the mentality - I've highlighted endlessly the hopeful signs I've seen about that - it's the over-reliance on a couple of key players and the perennial injury problems.

You see - that statement (highlighted) is actually up for debate as matters stand. There is no doubt about the value of Sanchez; Ozil and now Cech to the team, but if you look at most of our past 6 seasons, we were topping the league, or nearly topping the league at some point during the season, or putting significant winning runs together without these players. We are undoubtedly reliant on them at present (overly so, in fact), but in terms of our past performances, it is arguable certainly that there should have been more of a step change with our ability to spend the kind of money that have brought our star players to the club.

In Europe - even with our stellar signings, we have if anything gone backwards this season, compared to other seasons.

I guess the real issue is that our new level of signings is at present more covering for our appalling injury situation than driving the club forward. We are back to the old 'step change' debate.Time will tell, of course but the current signs in terms of squad depth are not exactly cause for optimism.

Its a shame, IMO, because I feel that Wenger's famous 'handbrake' is blunting the effect of our new found competitiveness in the transfer market. Glass half empty - maybe - but we have had our hopes dashed too many times to feel anything other than skeptical about our chances going forwards.

[IBK]

The Chavs?
Behave...
It was 0-0 till Mike Dean took charge. I'm not having that.
The other two, fine - but these things happen, they happen to every team in every season. That's football.

I didn't see the Liverpool game although from what I remember we had a perfectly good Ramsey goal chalked off for offside that evening.
The Spurs game...well I did see that one and like it or not Spurs are irritatingly good this season. They've only lost once in the league this season and you can see why. There was a perception that they hammered us, I don't agree. We had 55% possession, had as many on target chances as them. We could have lost it but we could have won it too, it was a good derby game which ebbed and flowed, I don't have too many complaints about our performance that day.
I can't agree that our good performances are the exception rather than the norm. As for what our reasonable expectations are, I expect us to be competing for the biggest prizes. So far we're in the title race, so for now I'm reasonably content. If we continue to have too many "West Broms" then I'll agree that's not good enough, while we're there or thereabouts though I'll believe we have a chance of winning the title. I don't expect us to sweep all before us but I do expect us to compete, we didn't last year but the FA Cup retention mitigated that somewhat, this year there are no excuses.

We self-destructed against the Chavs. Do you not remember that we finished with 9 men? I have never been a fan of blaming the ref for results. Against both the Chavs Sp*rs and Liverpool if we had played at 80% of our level against Manure or Bayern at home we would have taken all 3 points. We remain vulnerable to teams playing a committed, pressing, game.

I'm a realist. I don't expect us to win every game. But it is the exception rather than the rule to see us playing the kind of committed, effective football that we have seen this team can play - and the talent that we have should see us doing this more often.

[Power n Glory]

Well, we'll find out in May. I've endlessly gone over some of the hopeful signs I see but the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
So long as we're in the mix I'll believe we have a chance.

I believe we have a chance but it’s not because I think we’re a lot stronger than what we’ve been before or learned from past mistakes. We’re in the mix because other teams haven’t been performing. Not a far stretch from the season Fergie finally stepped down from Utd and we were league leaders. You didn’t believe we had a chance of winning the league that year so why is it that your optimistic for this season?

[Letters]

I believe we have a chance but it’s not because I think we’re a lot stronger than what we’ve been before or learned from past mistakes. We’re in the mix because other teams haven’t been performing. Not a far stretch from the season Fergie finally stepped down from Utd and we were league leaders. You didn’t believe we had a chance of winning the league that year so why is it that your optimistic for this season?

I've explained endlessly why, the signs of hope I see. Some of the results we're getting, we wouldn't have got those a few years ago.
As I've said, the next few games and particularly the City one will tell us more.

[Letters]

We self-destructed against the Chavs. Do you not remember that we finished with 9 men?

I do remember that. And maybe we did lose our heads but the first sending off was nonsense - meanwhile Costa was allowed to do whatever he liked.
Being down to 10 men at Stamford Bridge, for all their troubles this season, doesn't give us much chance.
Even the most rabid of the anti-Wenger brigade weren't blaming him for that one after the game.

[Power n Glory]

I've explained endlessly why, the signs of hope I see. Some of the results we're getting, we wouldn't have got those a few years ago.
As I've said, the next few games and particularly the City one will tell us more.

Another threshold. Another acid test that's suppose to tell us more. How many more now? I explained this after the Utd and Bayern game. Those games don't tell us more. Just that on some occasions we can put a hurting on a big team. But we'll then put in a woeful string of performances against weaker teams and look uninterested in a few weeks later. We beat City last season but put in a terrible performance against Spurs two weeks later. It's like they didn't know it was a NLD. Not too far from what happened this season.

We've had seasons where we're pepped up for the big teams but lose focus against the weaker teams. It happened a lot during the Cesc era. The season before Ozil arrived we were the only team to beat Bayern at home and was on one of those unbeaten runs in the league...the sort of sign your talking about now. We signed Ozil, lead the league for a while with Ozil and Ramsey leading the charge, both got injured and the title challenge faltered.

The signs you talk of are not valid. We've seen plenty of the same in previous seasons. Scalping one of the big teams and beating our chest, saying 'this proves :blah:', but in the end it doesn't. We're back 4th and haven't taken advantage of our chances to go top of the league and extend that lead. Not saying we're in a an impossible situation but there isn't anything to point to that suggests we've vastly improved this season. No need to list your examples again either.

[IBK]

I do remember that. And maybe we did lose our heads but the first sending off was nonsense - meanwhile Costa was allowed to do whatever he liked.
Being down to 10 men at Stamford Bridge, for all their troubles this season, doesn't give us much chance.
Even the most rabid of the anti-Wenger brigade weren't blaming him for that one after the game.

I think this is a recurring theme with you. You tend to look at outside factors, I look at our team. As was said at the time, Our players knew what Costa is like. Koscielny dealt with him, Gabriel didn't. I don't blame the manager for this, but the fact is that we lost our heads, played into the Chavs' hands and lost the game. And shooting ourselves in the foot is an unwelcome, recurring theme for our team that undermines our effectiveness, and rightly leads to scepticism about our ability to be winners. That this tendency alternates with some breathtaking performances makes the frustration all the harder to take.

[IBK]

Another threshold. Another acid test that's suppose to tell us more. How many more now? I explained this after the Utd and Bayern game. Those games don't tell us more. Just that on some occasions we can put a hurting on a big team. But we'll then put in a woeful string of performances against weaker teams and look uninterested in a few weeks later. We beat City last season but put in a terrible performance against Spurs two weeks later. It's like they didn't know it was a NLD. Not too far from what happened this season.

We've had seasons where we're pepped up for the big teams but lose focus against the weaker teams. It happened a lot during the Cesc era. The season before Ozil arrived we were the only team to beat Bayern at home and was on one of those unbeaten runs in the league...the sort of sign your talking about now. We signed Ozil, lead the league for a while with Ozil and Ramsey leading the charge, both got injured and the title challenge faltered.

The signs you talk of are not valid. We've seen plenty of the same in previous seasons. Scalping one of the big teams and beating our chest, saying 'this proves :blah:', but in the end it doesn't. We're back 4th and haven't taken advantage of our chances to go top of the league and extend that lead. Not saying we're in a an impossible situation but there isn't anything to point to that suggests we've vastly improved this season. No need to list your examples again either.

:gp: I couldn't agree more.

And the longer this pattern goes on - even with undoubtedly better signings at our disposal - the less reason there is to hope that we are ever going to step up under the current regime.

[Letters]

The signs you talk of are not valid.
We'll find out in May, I guess.

[Letters]

but the fact is that we lost our heads, played into the Chavs' hands and lost the game.
OK, if that's the way you saw it. Look back at the match thread and you'll find very few people saw it that way. The first sending off wasn't anyone 'losing their head', it was a flick of the boot at most, not even sure it connected, it was pure cheating by Costa and the ref - a fact backed up by the fact that Costa was subsequently banned and our player exonerated post match.

[Niall_Quinn]

Rubbish.

It's arguable we do it too often but 50% of the time.
That's just one of those 87% of statistics that's made up on the spot.

Eh?

How many games have we played this season?

How many can you say we have played with the commitment and intensity we saw on Tuesday?

How many games where the fans have observed we didn't turn up or didn't approach our potential?

How many games where the majority of play has been slooooooow and futile in the final third?

Name the 51% or more of games where you can say we put a decent game together that demonstrated the potential of this squad and the talent of the players in it. Games where in individual stood out from an otherwise rancid team performance don't count.

In fact make it 60% because if my suggestion is "rubbish" then you'll need a little distance.

Why has it become your job to defend Wenger against what everyone else sees as self evident? Yes, we're still in the title hunt. And if everyone around us keeps losing then we'll be in it for a while yet. Then again, Leicester are still in it, aren't they? What does that prove - that Leicester have a shot at winning the title? Do you think so?

Our job is to win, not pat ourselves on the back for being in contention because everyone around us lost. The expectations are rock bottom at this club. 4th place trophies, calendar year titles, most consecutive appearances in the CL, the Wigan Cup. The boys done well.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm a realist. I don't expect us to win every game. But it is the exception rather than the rule to see us playing the kind of committed, effective football that we have seen this team can play - and the talent that we have should see us doing this more often.

Of course it's the exception, everyone bar you-know-who can see it. Switch things around so we played with a bit of passion more times than not and we'd have a much better record over the last 10 years and might have won something. But we have this guy in charge who admits he is not Jesus, but does tell us he has been sent for the benefit of mankind. An economics social worker, not a football manager.

[Letters]

Then again, Leicester are still in it, aren't they? What does that prove - that Leicester have a shot at winning the title? Do you think so.
I've been through this before, but no. Look at the games they've played so far.
They've done very well so far but they don't have the squad to sustain it and they've not played many of the big boys yet - well, they've played us and we beat them

In their next 8 games they have to play Manchester United, Chelsea, Everton , Liverpool, City and Spurs.
Let's see where they are after that.

[Kano]

We haven’t dropped to the level of our opponents, more that they’ve dropped to our usual level of performance so far in the league. The level in the Premier league has dropped season on season for the past 4/5 years, to the point where we may still scrape four teams in the knockout stages of the CL but three of them are relying on the last group games to qualify, all four of them may finish second and none of them have a hope of progressing deep into the competition.

So for that reason alone, we still have a chance of winning the league. I could list all my concerns over Wenger but I covered that at the start of the season. Now I'd rather just sit back at takes the games as they come, rather than drowning myself in pesimism about where we'll be at the end of the season. Otherwise it's just pointless turning on any game.

[Letters]

We haven’t dropped to the level of our opponents, more that they’ve dropped to our usual level of performance so far in the league. The level in the Premier league has dropped season on season for the past 4/5 years, to the point where we may still scrape four teams in the knockout stages of the CL but three of them are relying on the last group games to qualify, all four of them may finish second and none of them have a hope of progressing deep into the competition.

So for that reason alone, we still have a chance of winning the league. I could list all my concerns over Wenger but I covered that at the start of the season. Now I'd rather just sit back at takes the games as they come, rather than drowning myself in pesimism about where we'll be at the end of the season. Otherwise it's just pointless turning on any game.
:gp:

I'd go along with that.

[Power n Glory]

We'll find out in May, I guess.

We will but that doesn't mean the signs you're referring to are useful. They're not signs of progress.

[Niall_Quinn]

We haven’t dropped to the level of our opponents, more that they’ve dropped to our usual level of performance so far in the league. The level in the Premier league has dropped season on season for the past 4/5 years, to the point where we may still scrape four teams in the knockout stages of the CL but three of them are relying on the last group games to qualify, all four of them may finish second and none of them have a hope of progressing deep into the competition.

So for that reason alone, we still have a chance of winning the league. I could list all my concerns over Wenger but I covered that at the start of the season. Now I'd rather just sit back at takes the games as they come, rather than drowning myself in pesimism about where we'll be at the end of the season. Otherwise it's just pointless turning on any game.

It's not a pessimism about where we'll be at the end of the season. The vast majority can already work that out based on a repeating pattern over a decade. It's the frustration of knowing that one change at this club, albeit the crucial one, and we've got a squad that could win the PL and actually compete in Europe. That's all it would take, somebody at the board level with a set of balls. But that's not going to happen so you are right, on our way to the inevitable outcome there will be ups and downs and we take whatever is on offer.

[Kano]

It's not a pessimism about where we'll be at the end of the season. The vast majority can already work that out based on a repeating pattern over a decade. It's the frustration of knowing that one change at this club, albeit the crucial one, and we've got a squad that could win the PL and actually compete in Europe. That's all it would take, somebody at the board level with a set of balls. But that's not going to happen so you are right, on our way to the inevitable outcome there will be ups and downs and we take whatever is on offer.
I was there at the start of the season if you remember. And I see many of the same patterns and issues but if I want to enjoy my football and sitting down to watch the team I support, I find little point in assuming where we are going to be anymore. I spent a lot of time debating it on here from a similar point of view but I've come to the point now that even if I end up having the same frustrations at the end of it, I'd prefer to make the most of that weekend pre-match hope of bagging three points. Especially as the world around us falls deeper into shit. These escapes of ours are ever more precious. We're stuck with Wenger for at least one more season after this so I'm swallowing my medicine a bit more than I was.

[fakeyank]

It's not a pessimism about where we'll be at the end of the season. The vast majority can already work that out based on a repeating pattern over a decade. It's the frustration of knowing that one change at this club, albeit the crucial one, and we've got a squad that could win the PL and actually compete in Europe. That's all it would take, somebody at the board level with a set of balls. But that's not going to happen so you are right, on our way to the inevitable outcome there will be ups and downs and we take whatever is on offer.

:gp:

[Letters]

I was there at the start of the season if you remember. And I see many of the same patterns and issues but if I want to enjoy my football and sitting down to watch the team I support, I find little point in assuming where we are going to be anymore. I spent a lot of time debating it on here from a similar point of view but I've come to the point now that even if I end up having the same frustrations at the end of it, I'd prefer to make the most of that weekend pre-match hope of bagging three points. Especially as the world around us falls deeper into shit. These escapes of ours are ever more precious. We're stuck with Wenger for at least one more season after this so I'm swallowing my medicine a bit more than I was.

I find it interesting that the people who early season were predicting we'd get off to a bad start and not challenge are still so confident in their predictions. Whatever. I'm with you. While we're in the mix I'll believe we have a chance and enjoy the ride. If and when we fall out of contention we can have the post mortem.

[Power n Glory]

It's not just about where we'll end up this season. I think people are just tired of it all and losing interest.

[Xhaka Can’t]

All I can say is that I hope we go on to do the business in the last match. I don't think I can face the Uefa league/cup/whatever they call it this season.

[Letters]

It's not just about where we'll end up this season. I think people are just tired of it all and losing interest.

I'm losing interest with football generally tbh.
Part of that is growing up, getting married, having other priorities.
Part of it is the way the game has gone, it's not as much fun as it used to be now it's increasingly about the money.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Good win but make no mistake they are nothing special, so this results is only what we should expect.

We should beat Olympiakos as again they are nothing special but you never know with us, having said that when 4th place or last 16 is up for grabs we always manage to scrape home so it wouldn't surprise me if we do, once we get there though expect the customary spanking from one of the games giants.

Have to say to have lost 3 games and performed as badly as we have done and still qualify would reflect poorly on the competition, a side that has performed as badly as we have shouldn't have the opportunity to advance.

I like how you write off Olympiakos as nothing special when it suits you in this instance, but if anyone questions Joel Campbell you point to his success there as how he succeeded in a good club/league and deserves his chance. That is top quality goal post shifting :lol:

[Power n Glory]

I like how you write off Olympiakos as nothing special when it suits you in this instance, but if anyone questions Joel Campbell you point to his success there as how he succeeded in a good club/league and deserves his chance. That is top quality goal post shifting :lol:

But are Olympiakos a special club? That's a silly argument Ollie.

[Kano]

A couple of things to remember about that away game. Firstly our away record in the CL is hardly the best and we've never beaten them away in a few attempts. We should have enough in to get the right result but with the crowd right behind them it won't be an easy game at all.

[Niall_Quinn]

A couple of things to remember about that away game. Firstly our away record in the CL is hardly the best and we've never beaten them away in a few attempts. We should have enough in to get the right result but with the crowd right behind them it won't be an easy game at all.

Yeah but still, Ozil, Alexis, Ramsey, Bellerin, Cech, Kos,... we should shit all over them based on team comparison. So it comes down to preparation and tactics, plus desire of course.

You're right - lucky dip.

[Letters]

But are Olympiakos a special club? That's a silly argument Ollie.

They're hardly European Giants but they're no mugs. Winning by 2 goals there would be a very good result.

Zim often does this sort of thing, dismisses another team who we're about to play so that he can moan if we lose and dismiss it as a game we should be winning easily if we get a good result. Anything but give us any credit.

[Ollie the Optimist]

A couple of things to remember about that away game. Firstly our away record in the CL is hardly the best and we've never beaten them away in a few attempts. We should have enough in to get the right result but with the crowd right behind them it won't be an easy game at all.

One thing though is that over the last few meetings with them, it has been a dead rubber match and we have taken a second string team. Dont think we have a full strength team out there, at least not in the past 3 meetings. So this time it will be a full strength (excluding injuries) so hopefully that will be enough to beat them. It should be but who knows

[Xhaka Can’t]

Arsene knows.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

[Bumble]

They're hardly European Giants but they're no mugs. Winning by 2 goals there would be a very good result.

Zim often does this sort of thing, dismisses another team who we're about to play so that he can moan if we lose and dismiss it as a game we should be winning easily if we get a good result. Anything but give us any credit.

If we just needed to win then you would fancy it. but winning by two goals could be tricky. that or focus on scoring 3.

[Letters]

If we just needed to win then you would fancy it. but winning by two goals could be tricky. that or focus on scoring 3.

I'm feeling quite bullish actually. Olympiacos are no pushovers but we're plenty good enough to get the result we need.
A heroic all-for-naught 2-1 away win wouldn't surprise me though.

[GP]

5-7

[Letters]

0-2
Smith
Thomas.