Reaction Vs Aston Vanilla

[LDG]

We are topplaleague, said we are topplaleague!

[Kano]

Nice and easy, never in any danger at all. No injuries, a week off, hopefully Alexis back and then time to snuff out City.

[Niall_Quinn]

We should have smashed that Villa team out of site and gone into the gypo game at the top of our form. Instead we played half a game. 3 points in the bag, top of the league, but still doing the absolute bare minimum. The league is that bad.

[fakeyank]

Flamini worries me but other than that, that was as easy as they come!

[Master Splinter]

We may have successfully reignited Villa's season. But at least we did the job in the first half.

Poor overall, should have boosted our goal difference. But getting no more injuries is the best result at the moment.

Giroud, Ramsey, Monreal and Bellerin had good games. Ox looked like a footballer again today. Hope he doesn't go back into his half-shell in the next game.

Top of the league. :scarf:

[Power n Glory]

Easy and comfortable. Very boring. But I'll take the 3 points. Top of the league!

[Marc Overmars]

3 points, clean sheet, another Ozil assist, another Bif goal, top of the league.

Job done.

Arsenal. :bow:

[Letters]

We should have smashed that Villa team out of site and gone into the gypo game at the top of our form. Instead we played half a game. 3 points in the bag, top of the league, but still doing the absolute bare minimum. The league is that bad.

As you would say, take a day off.
Villa are awful but while they're losing most games they're rarely getting smashed. It was the first time they'd lost by 2 goals at home all season. City recently drew there. Where does this expectation that we should be hammering them come from when no one else has there.

Anyway...
Top of the league. Wenger out :blah:

[Master Splinter]

As you would say, take a day off.
Villa are awful but while they're losing most games they're rarely getting smashed. It was the first time they'd lost by 2 goals at home all season. City recently drew there. Where does this expectation that we should be hammering them come from when no one else has there.

Anyway...
Top of the league. Wenger out :blah:

:gp:

Wenger :bow: :bow:.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

As you would say, take a day off.
Villa are awful but while they're losing most games they're rarely getting smashed. It was the first time they'd lost by 2 goals at home all season. City recently drew there. Where does this expectation that we should be hammering them come from when no one else has there.

Anyway...
Top of the league. Wenger out :blah:
:gp:

3 points. Comfortable, easy and most importantly .....NO MORE GOD DAMN INJURIES!

A week to rest and prepare for City for which I'm hoping Alexis is back for.



Flamini worries me but other than that, that was as easy as they come!

He worries the hell out of everyone. You can usually get away with him (and Arteta) against the mid/lower table teams like Villa and Olympiakos, but I really fear seeing him up against a top team like City next week who'll have the likes of Silva and De Bruyne to expose his shortcomings.

He's got no discipline or defensive awareness and if we want to win the league it's imperative we get some top quality cover in the window.

[Niall_Quinn]

As you would say, take a day off.
Villa are awful but while they're losing most games they're rarely getting smashed. It was the first time they'd lost by 2 goals at home all season. City recently drew there. Where does this expectation that we should be hammering them come from when no one else has there.

Anyway...
Top of the league. Wenger out :blah:

Erm... watching the game?

But I realise, "What everyone else did(TM)*" is the real indicator of what we should be doing. Top of the league = nothing unless we are there when the season ends. We have been top of the league before and we collapsed. That's what's going to happen again if we keep on putting in shit performances in the PL, which we have been doing for weeks now btw.

And you said, "Wenger out", nobody else did. "But you knew that of course(TM)*".

* All Letters' trademarks recognised, this posting does not imply ownership or association with any of the tired old excuses that are the property of Letters Wenger Worshipping Ltd.

[Master Splinter]

Erm... watching the game?

But I realise, "What everyone else did(TM)*" is the real indicator of what we should be doing. Top of the league = nothing unless we are there when the season ends. We have been top of the league before and we collapsed. That's what's going to happen again if we keep on putting in shit performances in the PL, which we have been doing for weeks now btw.

And you said, "Wenger out", nobody else did. "But you knew that of course(TM)*".

* All Letters' trademarks recognised, this posting does not imply ownership or association with any of the tired old excuses that are the property of Letters Wenger Worshipping Ltd.

You can't do a properly. :haha:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Congrats to Cech on equalling the clean sheets record. Though not too many given most of them were for Chelsea.

[Letters]

But I realise, "What everyone else did(TM)*" is the real indicator of what we should be doing.
I think you're trying sarcasm there but yes, it is an indicator.
If all the other teams we're supposed to be competing with are hammering Villa and we draw there or lose then that would be worrying.
But that's not what's happened. Villa are hopeless but they're not getting spanked every week. Utd won there 1-0. City drew there.
They've lost to Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool but they were all away from home and never by more than 2 goals.
So why would we, with our awful manager, go and smash them?
I didn't see the game but by all accounts we won 2-0 easily. As it was a game that took us top of the league I can live with that.


Top of the league = nothing unless we are there when the season ends. We have been top of the league before and we collapsed.

Of course. That's pretty much what I've been saying all season. Judge the season at the end. But given the early season wailing and gnashing of teeth I think we're doing pretty well so far. I expect us to compete for the title this year, so far we are. If we don't sustain it then we can start talking about sacking the manager.


And you said, "Wenger out", nobody else did. "But you knew that of course(TM)*".
No, of course they didn't. They'd look pretty stupid saying that after we just won a game which took us top of the league. But plenty will be saying it again after the next poor result, and you'll be first in line.

[Power n Glory]

Letters - You didn't see the game so there is no point in asking if you think we could have played better and if you think we were guilty of coasting.

It's the famous 'handbrake' and my worry is we don't know how to up it a gear when we settle into a slow tempo. We only seem to wake up once we concede a goal or it's the last 10 mins and we're chasing the game. We shouldn't be measuring games by what our rivals do. Judge by what you know we're capable and whether we played to our full capacity. I think that's what NQ means when saying we should have battered them. Nothing wrong with a comfortable victory but we need to you tempo against City without fail.

[Letters]

Letters - You didn't see the game so there is no point in asking if you think we could have played better and if you think we were guilty of coasting.
I didn't see the game but from the comments on here I'm happy to accept that we did. But I'm fine with that. We didn't need any more injuries, if we can beat a very poor side without getting out of 2nd gear then fine, let's keep some powder dry for tougher tests to come. We got the result, we're top of the league (for now). Job done.

[Power n Glory]

I didn't see the game but from the comments on here I'm happy to accept that we did. But I'm fine with that. We didn't need any more injuries, if we can beat a very poor side without getting out of 2nd gear then fine, let's keep some powder dry for tougher tests to come. We got the result, we're top of the league (for now). Job done.

That's a more sensible argument. I wouldn't bother mentioning the results of other top teams against Villa. We played a poor team and since I didn't watch and can't remember our rivals results, I can't judge whether they coasted through like us or really struggled to break them down.

[Kano]

Ramsey returning to his favoured and best position has helped lessen the blow of losing Santi and Coq.

Two goals, two assists in past three games. Long term he has to stay there, despite working out well enough out on the right, his energy is perfect for the middle. I can't remember if has played many games alongside Coq or not.

[Niall_Quinn]

I didn't see the game but from the comments on here I'm happy to accept that we did. But I'm fine with that. We didn't need any more injuries, if we can beat a very poor side without getting out of 2nd gear then fine, let's keep some powder dry for tougher tests to come. We got the result, we're top of the league (for now). Job done.

Kano stuck up a mention of the Clough documentary on the Film thread. You should watch it. I did and it reminded me about how far away from being a football manager and a sportsman Wenger and our board are. There's no second gear - ever, ever, ever, ever and if you even contemplate second gear you're a loser. Guaranteed. Sure thing, you can beat up on Aston Villa, but the loser mentality will come home to roost when the big and serious boys come calling. Maybe we'll luck out on a few due to the outrageous talent of players like Ozil, but long haul Wenger's bare minimum mentality isn't a winning one. He's negative, he's fearful, for some fucked up reason he's trying to conserve the energy of the team while doing fuck all about the injury crisis we have year after year. What's the point in the players being match fit in terms of lung capacity but laid up with muscular injuries? It's a lunatic asylum.

That second half performance was totally unacceptable and show me a person who says it was okay and I'll show you a massive loser. Same shit with the run in last year. It was "understandable" we eased up and fail to keep the gypos behind us. No, never ever okay. Never ever understandable to be a loser. Losers are fucking just that, losers.

100% effort every game, every time or go home. It's called sport and the purpose of it is excellence and achievement .

Trouble is, the same sort of loser mentality you have is painted a mile wide right through the club from the board through the manager and certainly through those players, and why not? Give them an easy ride and they'll take it. We're top of the league because the gypos are playing crap, not because we're playing well. There you go, if you want to compare us with everyone else rather than actually look at us and what we are doing.

We get this mentality problem we have sorted out and we'll walk the league and compete in Europe. To get it sorted out we all know what needs to be done.

[Niall_Quinn]

Congrats to Cech on equalling the clean sheets record. Though not too many given most of them were for Chelsea.

Great pro. When everyone else went asleep he was wide awake and ready for business.

[Letters]

100% effort every game, every time or go home. It's called sport and the purpose of it is excellence and achievement .
No team in the history of football or any other sport has done that. The Invincibles definitely didn't, they often blitzed teams in the first half and then coasted through the rest. It is just not physically or mentally possible to play at the very top intensity for every minute of every game. And when you're playing a poor side you don't always need to give everything, you play within yourselves and save some energy for bigger tests. So long as you get the result.

We're top of the league and in the last 16 of the CL. So far, so good.
You were confidently agreeing that, when we were 5 points off the top after 4 games, we'd 'definitely' be 10 points off in another 4 games, and you declared us out of the CL after 2 (admittedly awful) games. Now we're you're just shifting the goalposts and complaining about different things. Had we lost people would be saying we spurned another chance to go top and Wenger out and :blah:. We won, went top and all you can do is moan we didn't win well enough? Sheesh, give it a rest.

While we're in the title race I'll believe we have a chance of winning it. If we fall out of it then we can look at other management options. For now we're top, the next trick is to stay there or close enough that we have a good chance of being there in May.

[Niall_Quinn]

In any other season we'd be well behind by now, this is a weird season where the top teams are regularly fucking up. For you it's Christmas all season long, a race to the bottom, the least fucked up team will win it. The opposite of excellence, pure mediocrity.

When we play well I say we played well. When we don't I say so. You, on the other hand, no matter what happens you're flying the Wenger flag. If he doesn't sign any players next season - he should be sacked. If he doesn't compete he should be sacked. Then reset at the end of every season and go again. Anyone who points out, hey wait a second, that's 10 seasons now, you're begging them to look everywhere but at the club, telling them they shouldn't be commenting until everything is done and the reset button has been pressed again. Doesn't work on me, I call it like I see it. Today was a shit performance regardless of whether we went top of a mediocre league or not. And our last few games in the PL were shit performances too, you can pretend whatever you want. You don't even watch the games. You banned Cripps for being a relentless WUM but look at you.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

33 points is six points less than Chelsea at this stage last season and they are largely considered to have run away with it. I don't think teams are really screwing it up that much more than in any other season really - Leicester I think are aiding that impression because it is they that have been on top, whereas usually the 'surprise' team will be in the top 4 position at best at this stage.

In 97/98 we had 27 I think. :lol:

[Letters]

In any other season we'd be well behind by now

Nope.
Last season we'd be in 3rd, 3 points off City, 6 points off Chelsea.
The season before that we'd be 2 points behind...us, we were top with 35 points.
We need to challenge for the title this season. So far, we are. While that continues I'll be fairly content with how things are going. If we cock things up Wenger should be sacked. I've said that consistently. I've also said I'll wait till that happens rather than shouting Wenger Out after every minor setback. 2 games in to the CL campaign you were throwing in the towel, you were pretty much doing the same 4 games in to the league campaign - and you have the cheek to call Wenger a loser!
No, I don't watch as many games these days. So what? I watch some, I see other highlights. Obviously it's nice to play well and win, but playing poorly and winning is part of a title winning campaign. Right now we're pretty much where we should be, in the title race. While we stay there the manager will have my support.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Up the Arse....!

I thought we were lax too often in the second half but of course I am just glad to get along for the time being with the points and without incident!

The drop off in quality means we cannot afford complacency when we're on top to become a habit!

[IBK]

Listened to the game. We coasted once we'd gone 2 goals up - which I will accept after the Olympiacos game midweek. In a perfect world yes we would have kept going for the jugular. I think we play a dangerous game playing well within ourselves at times, and we are where we are as much because other teams keep screwing up - even more than we do. But in fairness the fact that so-called lesser teams keep getting unexpected results against our so-called competitors do put our disappointing games in some context. Standards are lower this season for sure - but I won't complain as long as we keep our noses ahead on weekends like this one and last weekend.

[Letters]

You banned Cripps for being a relentless WUM but look at you.
Yeah. Look at me.
Saying I support the manager after the last 2 years when we've won a Cup in both seasons and are now top of the league and the last 16 of the CL.
What a WUM I am. I can see how saying that would wind up Arsenal fans.

If we don't challenge this year then Wenger out. Right now, we are :good:

[Stilts1964]

In any other season we'd be well behind by now, this is a weird season where the top teams are regularly fucking up. For you it's Christmas all season long, a race to the bottom, the least fucked up team will win it. The opposite of excellence, pure mediocrity.

Top of the league, comfortable away win, great performance in Europe (albeit admittedly to salvage a desperate situation of our own making) and yet you continue to bleat on and on and on. Makes you wonder what fans of all the other teams below us in the league are saying about their teams / managers / boards etc. I thought one of the reasons why we love the game is because it is unpredictable - you seem to want to know the result before every game but, like a spoilt child who if they don't get what they want goes crying and wailing back to mummy!

I've been supporting this great club for 40 plus years. Where does this expectation that we should be winning everything all of the time come from? Wenger has delivered success that is the envy of almost every other club (and way beyond what we have achieved in our history other than arguably the Herbert Chapman era).

Get behind your team but if you can't do that then I suggest you keep your negativity to yourself. It's really very very very boring!

As for delivering excellence I wonder if you apply that same standard to everything you do?

[Coney]

:gp:

[Kano]

You could've just posted under your usual name Coney.

[Power n Glory]

Duplicate accounts allowed? :unsure:

[Coney]

You could've just posted under your usual name Coney.

Not me guv - does look like someone who is a regular though!

[Power n Glory]

Strange. 1st time post, only joined in November but knows all about NQ even though NQ has changed his name to Arsene Wenger recently. :unsure: :lol: Long time reader, first time poster maybe.

Welcome to GW :wave:

[Kano]

Not me guv - does look like someone who is a regular though!

:sarcy:

[GP]

:ninja:

[Stilts1964]

Strange. 1st time post, only joined in November but knows all about NQ even though NQ has changed his name to Arsene Wenger recently. :unsure: :lol: Long time reader, first time poster maybe.

Welcome to GW :wave:

Genuine first time post / new member but have been reading for a while. Just a bit fed up by the negativity of some "fans" who just want Wenger out and looking for any opportunity to knock the team and manager. :banghead:

Thanks for the welcome!

[Niall_Quinn]

Top of the league, comfortable away win, great performance in Europe (albeit admittedly to salvage a desperate situation of our own making) and yet you continue to bleat on and on and on. Makes you wonder what fans of all the other teams below us in the league are saying about their teams / managers / boards etc. I thought one of the reasons why we love the game is because it is unpredictable - you seem to want to know the result before every game but, like a spoilt child who if they don't get what they want goes crying and wailing back to mummy!

I've been supporting this great club for 40 plus years. Where does this expectation that we should be winning everything all of the time come from? Wenger has delivered success that is the envy of almost every other club (and way beyond what we have achieved in our history other than arguably the Herbert Chapman era).

Get behind your team but if you can't do that then I suggest you keep your negativity to yourself. It's really very very very boring!

As for delivering excellence I wonder if you apply that same standard to everything you do?

Suggest you shut your own hole pal before telling others to shut theirs. Public discussion forum, I'll say what the fuck I want, when I want, until the owners decide otherwise.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Suggest you shut your own hole pal before telling others to shut theirs. Public discussion forum, I'll say what the fuck I want, when I want, until the owners decide otherwise.

Aaaaaaaaand welcome to GW! :tiphat:

[Letters]

Genuine first time post / new member but have been reading for a while. Just a bit fed up by the negativity of some "fans" who just want Wenger out and looking for any opportunity to knock the team and manager. :banghead:

Thanks for the welcome!

Welcome.
It's nice to finally have an ally :lol:

I genuinely don't understand the negativity on here, certainly not the level of it. We've just won the FA Cup twice in a row, we're currently top of the league and have qualified for the last 16 of the CL. What other set of fans would be calling for the manager's head under those circumstances? We have, admittedly, had a pattern of falling short and if that happens again then we do need to consider a new manager - we should be challenging for the biggest prizes. Ironically of course, that expectation comes from Wenger's time with us. Before that we were never a side consistently challenging for the league. But with the first half of Wenger's time with us and the new stadium comes new expectations. But I don't understand why people on here look for any opportunity to dig at the manager. If we lose or even draw vs City next week you'll see more of the same. And I do see that game as quite important, it's the sort of game a potential champion should be winning. But if we do lose we're not going to suddenly be out of the title race.
Whatever. For now I'm content with how this season is going. If and when we fall out of the title race then I'll reassess.

[Letters]

100% effort every game, every time or go home. It's called sport and the purpose of it is excellence and achievement.
Another response to this, as I just thought of it.
When's the last time you saw Usain Bolt run flat out in a heat? He doesn't because he doesn't need to. He could blow the opposition away, win by miles but why give your all in the first round when he can conserve some energy and save it for the final? If that's what we did yesterday then that's fine with me. We won the game, let's save some energy for bigger tests to come, like City next week.

[Power n Glory]

Welcome.
It's nice to finally have an ally :lol:

I genuinely don't understand the negativity on here, certainly not the level of it. We've just won the FA Cup twice in a row, we're currently top of the league and have qualified for the last 16 of the CL. What other set of fans would be calling for the manager's head under those circumstances? We have, admittedly, had a pattern of falling short and if that happens again then we do need to consider a new manager - we should be challenging for the biggest prizes. Ironically of course, that expectation comes from Wenger's time with us. Before that we were never a side consistently challenging for the league. But with the first half of Wenger's time with us and the new stadium comes new expectations. But I don't understand why people on here look for any opportunity to dig at the manager. If we lose or even draw vs City next week you'll see more of the same. And I do see that game as quite important, it's the sort of game a potential champion should be winning. But if we do lose we're not going to suddenly be out of the title race.
Whatever. For now I'm content with how this season is going. If and when we fall out of the title race then I'll reassess.

You're a WUM. :lol: The negativity stems from you baiting posters. It started off as a match reaction.

[Letters]

You're a WUM. :lol: The negativity stems from you baiting posters.
As NQ did endlessly early season with the "it's too early to judge..." nonsense :good:

[Power n Glory]

As NQ did endlessly early season with the "it's too early to judge..." nonsense :good:

So you're playing tit for tat but can't understand the negativity? ;)

[Niall_Quinn]

Another response to this, as I just thought of it.
When's the last time you saw Usain Bolt run flat out in a heat? He doesn't because he doesn't need to. He could blow the opposition away, win by miles but why give your all in the first round when he can conserve some energy and save it for the final? If that's what we did yesterday then that's fine with me. We won the game, let's save some energy for bigger tests to come, like City next week.

4 x 10 second bursts over 2 days bears no resemblance to a football match whatsoever. Dumbest analogy we've had on here for a while. Shame you just thought of it.

[Bumble]

Villa were awful, if they stay up I will be stunned.

[Maestro]

What a cold day to join GW, daaaamnnn!!!

[Letters]

4 x 10 second bursts over 2 days bears no resemblance to a football match whatsoever. Dumbest analogy we've had on here for a while. Shame you just thought of it.

I see you ignored the point earlier about how the Invincibles often blitzed teams and then coasted through games.
No team plays at full throttle every game. Never have, never will.

[alexander]

Welcome.
It's nice to finally have an ally :lol:

I genuinely don't understand the negativity on here, certainly not the level of it. We've just won the FA Cup twice in a row, we're currently top of the league and have qualified for the last 16 of the CL. What other set of fans would be calling for the manager's head under those circumstances? We have, admittedly, had a pattern of falling short and if that happens again then we do need to consider a new manager - we should be challenging for the biggest prizes. Ironically of course, that expectation comes from Wenger's time with us. Before that we were never a side consistently challenging for the league. But with the first half of Wenger's time with us and the new stadium comes new expectations. But I don't understand why people on here look for any opportunity to dig at the manager. If we lose or even draw vs City next week you'll see more of the same. And I do see that game as quite important, it's the sort of game a potential champion should be winning. But if we do lose we're not going to suddenly be out of the title race.
Whatever. For now I'm content with how this season is going. If and when we fall out of the title race then I'll reassess.

Im with you too Letters.
As a fan, I want to win everything, every game. But as an adult I realise it just is not possible. We are up against it already with the big money being poured into certain teams, but we are performing pretty well. Im happy so far. Yes we have had blips, we always have, always will, but we are sticking right in there.

I started supporting/going to games when i was 7 (1987) Ive seen some good times from back then, Ive seen some dire times (some mid 90s periods were a shambles). I think we need to appreciate the continued high level we have stuck too these last few years.
We are far from perfect, I know that, but I for one prefer this to the yoyo-ing of teams like Spurs and liverpool etc.

[Stilts1964]

Suggest you shut your own hole pal before telling others to shut theirs. Public discussion forum, I'll say what the fuck I want, when I want, until the owners decide otherwise.

Fair point and you are correct this is an open forum so you are quite rightly entitled to share your thoughts.

Apologies for upsetting you. It's just when you are top of the league, the current FA Cup holders and through to the last 16 of the CL it's hard to understand what there is to complain about. If you can't enjoy those moments and show your appreciation then when can you?

But my biggest concern is that if/when things don't go as you would wish then those fans who feel we should win everything all of the time playing football of the finest quality (and I don't mean the quality of George Graham, Bruce Rioch, Mourinho etc but the flowing intricate style that has been the hallmark of Arsene Wenger) will not get behind the team but would rather criticise and blame.

For me, the definition of a true fan is to show your support, allegiance and encouragement in the good and the bad times. There are too may "fans" who will only do the former.

Don't get me wrong, I am not condoning mediocrity but in my opinion we are far from mediocre (but you are free to have your own definition)

I know what type of supporter I am - it would be interesting to know what type you are?

[IBK]

Welcome.
It's nice to finally have an ally :lol:

I genuinely don't understand the negativity on here, certainly not the level of it. We've just won the FA Cup twice in a row, we're currently top of the league and have qualified for the last 16 of the CL. What other set of fans would be calling for the manager's head under those circumstances? We have, admittedly, had a pattern of falling short and if that happens again then we do need to consider a new manager - we should be challenging for the biggest prizes. Ironically of course, that expectation comes from Wenger's time with us. Before that we were never a side consistently challenging for the league. But with the first half of Wenger's time with us and the new stadium comes new expectations. But I don't understand why people on here look for any opportunity to dig at the manager. If we lose or even draw vs City next week you'll see more of the same. And I do see that game as quite important, it's the sort of game a potential champion should be winning. But if we do lose we're not going to suddenly be out of the title race.
Whatever. For now I'm content with how this season is going. If and when we fall out of the title race then I'll reassess.

Some of the negativity is probably OTT - I'll give you that. But scepticism about Arsenal is not hard to understand. I don;t think that there is a team in the EPL that has consistently flattered to deceive like we have. The frustration comes from the fact that we are a 'big team' that has underperformed for 10 years, and FA Cup or not we have not achieved what one of the 10 biggest teams in the world would be expected to achieve. Some fans are not happy with being nearly men, and have been deceived too many times into thinking that things have changed. Personally, I am still able to enjoy a good result without having to return to a theme, but I can understand why some fans feel that enough's enough. Let's hope its different this time, but Wenger has work to do to convince us that things have really changed.

[Niall_Quinn]

Fair point and you are correct this is an open forum so you are quite rightly entitled to share your thoughts.

Apologies for upsetting you. It's just when you are top of the league, the current FA Cup holders and through to the last 16 of the CL it's hard to understand what there is to complain about. If you can't enjoy those moments and show your appreciation then when can you?

But my biggest concern is that if/when things don't go as you would wish then those fans who feel we should win everything all of the time playing football of the finest quality (and I don't mean the quality of George Graham, Bruce Rioch, Mourinho etc but the flowing intricate style that has been the hallmark of Arsene Wenger) will not get behind the team but would rather criticise and blame.

For me, the definition of a true fan is to show your support, allegiance and encouragement in the good and the bad times. There are too may "fans" who will only do the former.

Don't get me wrong, I am not condoning mediocrity but in my opinion we are far from mediocre (but you are free to have your own definition)

I know what type of supporter I am - it would be interesting to know what type you are?

Fair play to you, a reasonable response under provocation.

What sort of fan? The 40 year sort just like yourself. Well, 37 to be precise. I always support the team, I'm not such a big fan of the club any more though. Don't like the non-football owner and his crew, I respect but don't much like the manager either. What he did in the past can never be taken away from him, but he's been a shadow of that for at least a decade. In my view (which is not unique) he's been the primary factor in us falling short season after season and he's outstayed his welcome. All over the forum you'll find argument to and fro that goes into the details so no point going over that again. I never demand we win trophies and certainly don't feel entitled to them. But I realise it will be the team that has given maximum effort on the most occasions in combination with having decent players that will lift the big trophies come May. We have the decent players so it's a shame to watch the effort rise and fall to suit the minimum we can get away with. What I demand is the maximum possible effort win, lose or draw, every game. That's actually the starting point for me, anything less than that is inexcusable negligence. I hated, hated, hated the way we slacked off and let the gypos overhaul us last season. That was a scandal. Whenever I see the same slacking off it pisses me off, mightily. Loved the performance midweek against the Greeks, said so, hated the non-performance against Villa, even though we won, even though we went top for a few hours, said so.

[Mr. Lahey]

Fair play to you, a reasonable response under provocation.

What sort of fan? The 40 year sort just like yourself. Well, 37 to be precise. I always support the team, I'm not such a big fan of the club any more though. Don't like the non-football owner and his crew, I respect but don't much like the manager either. What he did in the past can never be taken away from him, but he's been a shadow of that for at least a decade. In my view (which is not unique) he's been the primary factor in us falling short season after season and he's outstayed his welcome. All over the forum you'll find argument to and fro that goes into the details so no point going over that again. I never demand we win trophies and certainly don't feel entitled to them. But I realise it will be the team that has given maximum effort on the most occasions in combination with having decent players that will lift the big trophies come May. We have the decent players so it's a shame to watch the effort rise and fall to suit the minimum we can get away with. What I demand is the maximum possible effort win, lose or draw, every game. That's actually the starting point for me, anything less than that is inexcusable negligence. I hated, hated, hated the way we slacked off and let the gypos overhaul us last season. That was a scandal. Whenever I see the same slacking off it pisses me off, mightily. Loved the performance midweek against the Greeks, said so, hated the non-performance against Villa, even though we won, even though we went top for a few hours, said so.

i completely agree, there was no excuse for that.

[LDG]

Stilts, coming on here all high and mighty :sulk:

[Letters]

I'm not such a big fan of the club any more though. Don't like the non-football owner and his crew
I agree with that, but that's a problem throughout football. It's just business now and it's set up so the richest clubs rise to the top (well, Chelsea are doing their best to mess that up for themselves but in theory, and it tends to be the case long term). And it's set up to be a positive feedback loop so the richest clubs get the most money in prizes so are able, with decent management, to stay up there.


I respect but don't much like the manager either. What he did in the past can never be taken away from him, but he's been a shadow of that for at least a decade. In my view (which is not unique) he's been the primary factor in us falling short season after season and he's outstayed his welcome.

I don't agree he's been a shadow of his former self. He kept us in the top 4 every single year in an era when we had the double whammy of the stadium move affecting our finances and the billionaires running around buying up titles left, right and centre. Ferguson managed to get the better of them fairly often but he had a significantly bigger budget to play with than Wenger and, frankly, he's a better manager. But comparing a manager to Ferguson is like comparing a player to Henry. Without the billionaires I am convinced we'd have won a few titles in that time, but I do agree that at times we failed to win trophies when we should have and Wenger has to take responsibility for that. After the Birmingam debacle I didn't think we'd ever win a trophy under him again.
But the last 2 years HAVE shown a difference. The money is there, the signings have been at a different level and it has made a difference. Not the biggest prizes yet but we're winning trophies again, I think we all agree we need to push on but I don't think it's not unreasonable to see how this season will pan out.

We've discussed the effort thing. I don't buy that any team ever plays at full throttle every game. The Invincibles didn't, they blitzed teams early in the game then coasted. And that's fine, they got the results, they won the title. In sport you sometimes play an opponent who isn't anywhere near as good as you and you maybe ease off a bit. It's just how sport is. If it costs you the result then it's unacceptable. If you go 2-0 up against a team as poor as Villa and coast through the rest, save some energy for bigger tests to come then fine. Literally every team does that, no team ever plays at 100% intensity every game, it's just nor physically or mentally possible.


I hated, hated, hated the way we slacked off and let the gypos overhaul us last season. That was a scandal.

We've discussed this before, it seems to be your smoking gun in your argument against Wenger but I don't buy it. We can't simultaneously mock Wenger for the "Top 4 Trophy" thing and then make a big deal about not winning the "2nd Place Trophy". The way I see it there's a massive difference between some positions in the table, less of a difference between others.
2nd and the FA Cup is better than 3rd and the FA Cup, of course, but is it significantly different? I don't think so.
There's obviously a huge difference between 1st and 2nd.
Some difference between 3rd and 4th (automatic qualification vs not)
A big difference between 4th and 5th (CL or not)
A massive difference between 17th and 18th - relegation or not.
But the rest...

We slacked off a bit when the title had gone, not before. We weren't winning the title, we had the FA Cup Final to think about. We did enough to ensure we qualified automatically for the CL, won the FA Cup, job done. You make a big deal out of this "Winners' Mentality" but I don't see how finishing 2nd is "winning".

We should have challenged for the title last season, our failure to was damning but the FA Cup did mitigate somewhat. We need to challenge this year. So far, we are. While we continue to I'll believe we can win it. But we're not going to win every game, there will be bumps in the road, there will be poor performances. Not because Wenger's an idiot or a loser, just because that's how football is. Do we have to have this tiresome "Wenger Out" stuff every time we hit one on these bumps? Wenger should be sacked at the end of the season if we haven't properly challenged for the title. He shouldn't be sacked because we draw vs Norwich.

[Stilts1964]

Fair play to you, a reasonable response under provocation.

What sort of fan? The 40 year sort just like yourself. Well, 37 to be precise. I always support the team, I'm not such a big fan of the club any more though. Don't like the non-football owner and his crew, I respect but don't much like the manager either. What he did in the past can never be taken away from him, but he's been a shadow of that for at least a decade. In my view (which is not unique) he's been the primary factor in us falling short season after season and he's outstayed his welcome. All over the forum you'll find argument to and fro that goes into the details so no point going over that again. I never demand we win trophies and certainly don't feel entitled to them. But I realise it will be the team that has given maximum effort on the most occasions in combination with having decent players that will lift the big trophies come May. We have the decent players so it's a shame to watch the effort rise and fall to suit the minimum we can get away with. What I demand is the maximum possible effort win, lose or draw, every game. That's actually the starting point for me, anything less than that is inexcusable negligence. I hated, hated, hated the way we slacked off and let the gypos overhaul us last season. That was a scandal. Whenever I see the same slacking off it pisses me off, mightily. Loved the performance midweek against the Greeks, said so, hated the non-performance against Villa, even though we won, even though we went top for a few hours, said so.

Thanks AW - believe me when I say you and I share many of the same views. Here's to 3 points on the weekend (and a good display!)

[Xhaka Can’t]

Thanks AW - believe me when I say you and I share many of the same views. Here's to 3 points on the weekend (and a good display!)

What do you think of Tory Cunts?

[GP]

What do you think of Tory Cunts?

SHIT!!!

[Xhaka Can’t]

What do you think of SHIT?

[GP]

TORY CUNTS!!!

[Xhaka Can’t]

Thank-you!

[GP]

THAT'S ALRIGHT!!!

[Niall_Quinn]

What do you think of Tory Cunts?

Must have mellowed in my old age but these days I just wish they were all dead.