Fabregas goes to Barca for £35million

[Letters]

£35m is not enough and we'd be better off accepting £30m plus a player like Affelay or an instalment deal that is worth £50m - £60m.

And if Barca won't pay that (and they won't) then what?
We keep him for another season with an unsettled player, next summer we have all this again but with Cesc having one less year on his contract and our position gets weaker.
The logical conclusion is he walks away for free in a few years.

[Coney]

And if Barca won't pay that (and they won't) then what?
We keep him for another season with an unsettled player, next summer we have all this again but with Cesc having one less year on his contract and our position gets weaker.
The logical conclusion is he walks away for free in a few years.

Pragmatism is not a GW strong point. ;)

[Darth Vela]

And if Barca won't pay that (and they won't) then what?
We keep him for another season with an unsettled player, next summer we have all this again but with Cesc having one less year on his contract and our position gets weaker.
The logical conclusion is he walks away for free in a few years.

I don't think Cesc is going to put in any less for us than he ever has, he's not unhappy here after all so I think if the choice is between keeping him for a few seasons with the pssibility of losing him for free and drastically underselling him I'd edge towards keeping him here as he is a damn good player coming into his prime and we need those.

[Letters]

If Nasri stays then with him, Ramsey and Wilshere I think we have enough quality in midfield.
If Nasri leaves we will need a replacement. Even if he doesn't we could do with one but IMO we'd be OK in midfield anyway.

[Coney]

If Nasri stays then with him, Ramsey and Wilshere I think we have enough quality in midfield.
If Nasri leaves we will need a replacement. Even if he doesn't we could do with one but IMO we'd be OK in midfield anyway.

I'll buy that. I'm more concerned about a CB and getting someone to play up front with RvP who actually knows how to put the ball in the bloody net. We have not really had much problem getting the ball up front, with or without Cesc and/or Nasri. It's at the end that it all falls down. :(

[Letters]

I don't think Cesc is going to put in any less for us than he ever has, he's not unhappy here after all so I think if the choice is between keeping him for a few seasons with the pssibility of losing him for free and drastically underselling him I'd edge towards keeping him here as he is a damn good player coming into his prime and we need those.

I agree if he's here he'll do his best, he doesn't seem to be the kind to sulk around the place.
He's obviously going to go at some point, I personally think we've reached the stage where we can copy without him - arguably need to build a team without him. And I don't think £35m is underselling him. Not ever so convinced he'd be a regular starter for Barca, I wouldn't pay more than £35m for a squad player either. And while some silly money is flying around in the real world that is about what he's worth IMO.

[Master Splinter]

I'll buy that. I'm more concerned about a CB and getting someone to play up front with RvP who actually knows how to put the ball in the bloody net. We have not really had much problem getting the ball up front, with or without Cesc and/or Nasri. It's at the end that it all falls down. :(

:gp:

A clinical striker has been required for a while.

Missing endless chances to kill games off is our biggest downfall.

[Alan B'stard]

yeah he linked up really well with RVP in the world cup final vs cesc's mates.

[Alan B'stard]

There can be only one.

Wesley Sneijder. Pisses on Cesc tbh

yeah I remember how he took charge of the world cup final.

[Letters]

yeah I remember how he took charge of the world cup final.

Is a one off game a valid counter-argument? I don't watch enough football these days to have much of an opinion about Sneijder but his performance in one game, even a big game, is not hugely informative in the debate.

[Alan B'stard]

I dont know why people re so het up about getting a like for like cesc replacement.
1) there isnt one
2) the last five years have shown us that building a premiership team around a tiny playmaker with dodgy hammies is doomed to failure.

We should be taking the opportunity to cash in on the homesick greedy little ingrate and getting back to the way we used to play. That mean switching the focus of the team and recruiting/deploying according to players' strengths - not their abaility to impersonate cesc fabregas.

[Darth Vela]

I agree if he's here he'll do his best, he doesn't seem to be the kind to sulk around the place.
He's obviously going to go at some point, I personally think we've reached the stage where we can copy without him - arguably need to build a team without him. And I don't think £35m is underselling him. Not ever so convinced he'd be a regular starter for Barca, I wouldn't pay more than £35m for a squad player either. And while some silly money is flying around in the real world that is about what he's worth IMO.

From their perspective then I can see 35m is a lot for a squad player but the prices have been inflated, no matter how artificially, and if we take less than a decent market price for a class act like Cesc then it could only hurt us as there'd be less to spend on replacements.

[Alan B'stard]

Is a one off game a valid counter-argument? I don't watch enough football these days to have much of an opinion about Sneijder but his performance in one game, even a big game, is not hugely informative in the debate.

OK I take it back. wesley > cesc.
yay

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I can see a strong midfield without Cesc but if Nasri was going to become the centre of the wheel than some stonger spokes are needed

I like Flavs comment about Keita he would do a good job in the centre, Song is our man at the moment but I saw his influence wane towards the end of last year, would like to see him rediscover himself (back to his original hair colour would be a start) cos I he can be immense for us at times, ........not sure we need a widey like Affelay although I would have taken Hazard

[Letters]

I dont know why people re so het up about getting a like for like cesc replacement.
1) there isnt one
2) the last five years have shown us that building a premiership team around a tiny playmaker with dodgy hammies is doomed to failure.

We should be taking the opportunity to cash in on the homesick greedy little ingrate and getting back to the way we used to play. That mean switching the focus of the team and recruiting/deploying according to players' strengths - not their abaility to impersonate cesc fabregas.

Basically agree with your post but that is unfair IMO. He's given us at least half his career and his best years have been in a fairly unsuccessful team while Barca conquer all before them. He's never made any secret of his desire to go there one day and IMO if he went this summer you couldn't accuse him of jumping ship at the first opportunity.

[Letters]

OK I take it back. wesley > cesc.
yay

Oh I seeee, you're an idiot. Fair enough.

[Power n Glory]

I agree if he's here he'll do his best, he doesn't seem to be the kind to sulk around the place.
He's obviously going to go at some point, I personally think we've reached the stage where we can copy without him - arguably need to build a team without him. And I don't think £35m is underselling him. Not ever so convinced he'd be a regular starter for Barca, I wouldn't pay more than £35m for a squad player either. And while some silly money is flying around in the real world that is about what he's worth IMO.

They not desperate to buy, we're not desperate to sell. It's not as if Barca have forced our hand and he's only got a year left on his contract. A lot can happen next season. Xavi could start getting injured and lose form, we may actually end up winning something while Cesc is enjoying playing his football. We don't have to sell this year and we only weaken the team in the process. Ramsey and Whilshere could learn a lot from Cesc and adding to this current team makes us stronger.

If we win something major next season and we know that Wilshere and Ramsey are ready to step in, we'd be in a better position. We shouldn't feel pressured into selling if they don't want to cough up the cash. As you said, Cesc will do his best while he is here.

[Cripps_orig]

yeah I remember how he took charge of the world cup final.

Good for you.

I remember him taking charge for Inter in their treble winning season and he was Hollands best player during that same world cup you mention.

Kids :rolleyes:

[Cripps_orig]

They not desperate to buy, we're not desperate to sell. It's not as if Barca have forced our hand and he's only got a year left on his contract. A lot can happen next season. Xavi could start getting injured and lose form, we may actually end up winning something while Cesc is enjoying playing his football. We don't have to sell this year and we only weaken the team in the process. Ramsey and Whilshere could learn a lot from Cesc and adding to this current team makes us stronger.

If we win something major next season and we know that Wilshere and Ramsey are ready to step in, we'd be in a better position. We shouldn't feel pressured into selling if they don't want to cough up the cash. As you said, Cesc will do his best while he is here.
More importantly, i think that is the first time since Sir jack came on the scene, you have got his name right.

Even though you spelt it wrong in the previous paragraph

[Power n Glory]

More importantly, i think that is the first time since Sir jack came on the scene, you have got his name right.

Even though you spelt it wrong in the previous paragraph

Lol, I thought he had two H's in his name.

[Coney]

OK I take it back. wesley > cesc.
yay


Oh I seeee, you're an idiot. Fair enough.

What I don't understand is why he wants to pipe wesley into cesc? :geek:

[Joker]

TBH I've never been overly impressed with Sneijder. Yes he was by all accounts impressive for Inter Milan in his first season for them, but I've always questioned how creative he really is. At the world cup, his shooting was shown to be excellent, and his delivery from set plays was dangerous, but he seemed a bit selfish, and his ability to link up with other players in midfield and upfront is mixed IMO. I've never really seem him take a game by the scruff of the neck and dominate the midfield, therefore controlling the game. He's a good player yes, but as a replacement for Cesc? I don't think he's what we need tbh.

[Flavs]

Who, though?

Not trying to be smart (it never works anyway...) but I really can't think of a like-for-like replacement that'd be up to it, Gourcuff is always mooted but I'm not convinced. If we go to 4-4-2 without him, his replacement could be more of a striker or maybe a deeper lying playmaker/holder like he used to be, Melo maybe.


I was thinking about this the otehr night, Diego maybe or Miralem Pjanic, hamsik is another with the style. MAybe Wenger see's Nasri as the man, or maybe this is why we are after Mata

Maybe....just maybe Wenger was in south america looking at one of the wonder kids? and we are going to carry a creative mid

[Cripps_orig]

Cesc Fabregas' days at Arsenal look to be numbered after he was left out of promotional material for the launch of Arsenal's new away kit.
Full story: Daily Mirror

:wave: although if we don't get £45m then he's staying

[Niall_Quinn]

Another off-season which is all about who we're selling with fuck all except dross and kids coming the other way. We haven't bought the dross yet but you know we will. This board and this manager have no ambition. Every way you look at it that's the message coming across loud and clear. And as for the yank, what use is he? All that's happened is the cunts in the boardroom are playing musical shares, there's nothing in it for the club or the fans. Arsenal is dead until this manager and this board fuck off. And we can forget about Nasri, Wilshere and Ramsey stepping up - because the minute they do that they'll be up for sale. What's more, with a loser at the helm and a board that couldn't give a shit about the football, you really couldn't blame any player for wanting to jump the sinking ship. Yeah sure, they helped it go down but footballers are mercenaries and Wenger doesn't have a clue how to handle them. What the fuck is he doing as our captain walks away for peanuts? He;s busy scouting the next problem case in South America. The guy's fucking clueless.

[Letters]

Another off-season which is all about who we're selling with fuck all except dross and kids coming the other way. We haven't bought the dross yet but you know we will. This board and this manager have no ambition. Every way you look at it that's the message coming across loud and clear. And as for the yank, what use is he? All that's happened is the cunts in the boardroom are playing musical shares, there's nothing in it for the club or the fans. Arsenal is dead until this manager and this board fuck off. And we can forget about Nasri, Wilshere and Ramsey stepping up - because the minute they do that they'll be up for sale. What's more, with a loser at the helm and a board that couldn't give a shit about the football, you really couldn't blame any player for wanting to jump the sinking ship. Yeah sure, they helped it go down but footballers are mercenaries and Wenger doesn't have a clue how to handle them. What the fuck is he doing as our captain walks away for peanuts? He;s busy scouting the next problem case in South America. The guy's fucking clueless.

The final stages of ZD. Brain death.

Niall_Quin, :rose:

[Elche]

For info...

Cesc has a public appearence today just outside Barcelona. Where all the Spanish Sports press will be able to ask him questions.

So stand by for the fallout from that.

[GP]

For info...

Cesc has a public appearence today just outside Barcelona. Where all the Spanish Sports press will be able to ask him questions.

So stand by for the fallout from that.

You mean the bullshit tabloid bollocks?

I'll leave that to you, if you don't mind.

[Elche]

Basically it will be televised too...so no room for misinterpretation.

[Letters]

Basically it will be televised too...so no room for misinterpretation.

Plenty of room for twisting of his words and reading all kinds of nonsense into them though.
Super.

[Flavs]

Plus the old "lost in translation" bollocks

[LDG]

Cesc Fabregas' days at Arsenal look to be numbered after he was left out of promotional material for the launch of Arsenal's new away kit.
Full story: Daily Mirror


:wave: although if we don't get £45m then he's staying

Well, I suspect they didn't want to bung pictures of Cesc in the strip in case anything happens....

However, it's more interesting to me that TV5 has the prime slot.

Captain Tommy??

I like that.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I generally tend to look for what is not included within the Club's PR, Merchandising and Website material. This provides me with the most accurate insight into what is happening or what the Club intends to happen. This approach has served me well in the past.
The absence of Cesc in such a high profile marketing activity - make no mistake the Club would be making their Captain front and centre of any campaign, it they intended for him to stay. Especially so as Cesc is by far our most marketable player internationally.
The absence of Cesc indicates the Club are planning/prepared to do a deal. It does not necessarily indicate however, that one will be done. The pressure is not as high as people think it is. Cesc's contract is long term enough to not adversely affect his transfer value in a year or even 18 months time. In fact, his value could be enhanced as Barca's need for him increases - right now I don't see where he'd slot in their team.
I expect the Company (Club seems too emotive a term for what is going on here) are trying to extract maximum value for Cesc and will in considering any offer, have one eye on what Cesc's value will be to both Arsenal and Barca in one and maybe two years time.

[Coney]

If Cesc wants to go, there is no point in trying to force him to stay. However, as you say, we need to get the most out of it. Obviously, Barca are doing the same in reverse. If the price is right then we may as well sell him as long as the money really does get used to bring in quality replacements. If he is replaced with a couple of backbone players, then if we keep Nasri and have Wilshere and Ramsey, a decent CB alongside Vermaelen and a goalscoring striker alongside RvP, as distinct from the non-goalscorers like Bendtner, then we could build a side well able to win the PL.

[LDG]

@GB

Oh I agree. And as such, it would be silly to have him in all our marketing pics should he walk out the door in five days time. Doesn't mean he will if our valuation is not met. It seems pretty clear to me that we have put a price on Cesc which would see him leave, and if that price isn't met, he's not going anywhere. And we're quite within our rights to do so. What that price is, none of us know, and it would be stupid of the club to even consider releasing this information.

Like I say, more interested in TV5 being front and centre....quite interesting.

And, btw, I see your "company" wording. Disurbing that AW was using that in his "heartfelt" letter....why can't he just say "THE" Arsenal for once.

[Coney]

@GB

And, btw, I see your "company" wording. Disurbing that AW was using that in his "heartfelt" letter....why can't he just say "THE" Arsenal for once.

I'm sure Arsenal Corporate Marketing Dept will have a word in AW's ear about the correct way to refer to the company club.

[Elche]

Plenty of room for twisting of his words and reading all kinds of nonsense into them though.
Super.

I'll watch it if I can. And try to translate accurately...Then we can see how thet spin it later.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I generally tend to look for what is not included within the Club's PR, Merchandising and Website material. This provides me with the most accurate insight into what is happening or what the Club intends to happen. This approach has served me well in the past.
The absence of Cesc in such a high profile marketing activity - make no mistake the Club would be making their Captain front and centre of any campaign, it they intended for him to stay. Especially so as Cesc is by far our most marketable player internationally.
The absence of Cesc indicates the Club are planning/prepared to do a deal. It does not necessarily indicate however, that one will be done. The pressure is not as high as people think it is. Cesc's contract is long term enough to not adversely affect his transfer value in a year or even 18 months time. In fact, his value could be enhanced as Barca's need for him increases - right now I don't see where he'd slot in their team.
I expect the Company (Club seems too emotive a term for what is going on here) are trying to extract maximum value for Cesc and will in considering any offer, have one eye on what Cesc's value will be to both Arsenal and Barca in one and maybe two years time.

Yes, get in there with that!
was thinking the same thing, wont be seeing Cesc in any new strips etc
a tell tell sign that we are at least willing too do business and why not, the earlier the better, said before that we will never win by centreing everything round Cesc, get rid of himand let him rot on the bench, or contribute to probably no more than two thirds of Barcas season
weinthe meantime should go back to basics of playing a team not a supporting cast which we have been doing since the end of Henrys reign

[Niall_Quinn]

Plenty of room for twisting of his words and reading all kinds of nonsense into them though.
Super.

He shouldn't be there in the first place, his actions are speaking much louder than anything he can say. This would be like Tony Adams taking his third trip to Manchester to screw around with his buddies at Old Trafford. The only difference would be Adams won something, so he could have walked away with his head held high if that's what he wanted to do. As a proper Arsenal captain he didn't walk away, of course. Times change. That was back when we had a football club instead of a corporation.

[Letters]

Times change. That was back when we had a football club instead of a corporation.

Well sure but that is a problem throughout football, not just at Arsenal.

[LDG]

If they offer less than what we're asking for, we should take that as a percentage, and reflect that percentage in what we give them back.

We could keep his legs, and send them the rest of the dumpy little cunt.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes, get in there with that!
was thinking the same thing, wont be seeing Cesc in any new strips etc
a tell tell sign that we are at least willing too do business and why not, the earlier the better, said before that we will never win by centreing everything round Cesc, get rid of himand let him rot on the bench, or contribute to probably no more than two thirds of Barcas season
weinthe meantime should go back to basics of playing a team not a supporting cast which we have been doing since the end of Henrys reign

He won't be rotting on any bench, he's already as good as anything they've got and he'll end up captaining club and country. We're letting a top, top player go, one of our few world class assets. And it looks like we'll be swapping him for chump change. This sends a terrible message out to the fans, the players and the football world in general. Arsenal have given up even pretending to compete with the big boys, we are now officially second tier. The stadium move has only succeeded in driving us out of the top ranks and into the chasing pack. We desperately need a manager who has the balls to tell the players straight they will be forced to honour their contracts. I don't buy any of this shit about there being no point in keeping a player who wants away. That attitude effectively tears up any contract the minute it is signed. Top players aren't going to sit on the bench and sulk if forced to stay, their careers and future earning potential wouldn't afford them that luxury. I reiterate, anyone who is comfortable with the thought we have enough with Nasri (another want-away player), Jack and Ramsey are forgetting we are a selling club. They also overlook our track record of being able to keep players on the pitch. That trio will be nowhere near good enough to make us competitive next season. They are all good players undoubtedly but none are in the class of Fabregas. It would be interesting to see what fee would be attached to Messi if he decide he had Manchester or Chelsea in his DNA. I doubt Barca would play the, no point in hanging on to him card. They'd just demand the £100mill and wouldn't budge. Somehow it's different for Arsenal though, it's fine for us to sell world class players on long contracts for pennies. That all makes sense at Arsenal.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well sure but that is a problem throughout football, not just at Arsenal.

The problem has been purified at Arsenal though, we are the ultimate expression of business over football. We practice business to the detriment of the football, who else does it so well?

[Niall_Quinn]

If they offer less than what we're asking for, we should take that as a percentage, and reflect that percentage in what we give them back.

We could keep his legs, and send them the rest of the dumpy little cunt.

We should send them Diaby in Cesc's shirt and tell them he got a sun tan.

Might work.

[Letters]

The problem has been purified at Arsenal though, we are the ultimate expression of business over football. We practice business to the detriment of the football, who else does it so well?

We live within our means and don't rely on a sugar daddy.
I would argue that we're trying to do things the 'right' way rather than getting ourselves in silly levels of of debt or being some billionaire's plaything.
I applaud that. Long term I still think that will be shown to have been the right thing to do.

What's annoying is while others have spent big Wenger has built a squad which is capable of challenging but doesn't because of poor defensive coaching and weak mentality, things which it wouldn't take megabucks to fix.

[LDG]

We live within our means and don't rely on a sugar daddy.
I would argue that we're trying to do things the 'right' way rather than getting ourselves in silly levels of of debt or being some billionaire's plaything.
I applaud that. Long term I still think that will be shown to have been the right thing to do.

What's annoying is while others have spent big Wenger has built a squad which is capable of challenging but doesn't because of poor defensive coaching and weak mentality, things which it wouldn't take megabucks to fix.

I believe that is a good post young Letters.

[Xhaka Can’t]

We live within our means and don't rely on a sugar daddy.
I would argue that we're trying to do things the 'right' way rather than getting ourselves in silly levels of of debt or being some billionaire's plaything.
I applaud that. Long term I still think that will be shown to have been the right thing to do.

What's annoying is while others have spent big Wenger has built a squad which is capable of challenging but doesn't because of poor defensive coaching and weak mentality, things which it wouldn't take megabucks to fix.

It will take megabucks to replace the talent of Fabregas if we let him go on the cheap. And as it will take megabucks, it won't happen.

I think this is serious enough for us to let him rot on our bench if the need arises. He has a contract til 2015, he is a world class player, he is young, he should NOT be going for anything in the region of £31-35m.

If this were happening anywhere else you would not expect movement for under 50m euros.

[Niall_Quinn]

We live within our means and don't rely on a sugar daddy.
I would argue that we're trying to do things the 'right' way rather than getting ourselves in silly levels of of debt or being some billionaire's plaything.
I applaud that. Long term I still think that will be shown to have been the right thing to do.

What's annoying is while others have spent big Wenger has built a squad which is capable of challenging but doesn't because of poor defensive coaching and weak mentality, things which it wouldn't take megabucks to fix.

So you think the moral superiority cup is coming our way again next season? If it wasn't for the humiliating reversals on the pitch we could gloat at the nasty Manchester Utds and Chelseas, poor sods have to spend money to win things. Losers.

[Darth Vela]

The stadium move has only succeeded in driving us out of the top ranks and into the chasing pack

That is so wrong I don't know where to start.

If Cesc goes for 35m, hell if he goes for anything less than 50m, it's a good deal for Barca but there's been an undercurrent of opinion for a while that the team might be better off without him, others stepping up and taking responsibility or him just not being suited to the Premiership. If they're right it'd work out but I can't help but think we're getting done, at a time when we need guys with the right attitude we could be losing a world class guy who has that right attitude for less than he's worth.

[Niall_Quinn]

It will take megabucks to replace the talent of Fabregas if we let him go on the cheap. And as it will take megabucks, it won't happen.

I think this is serious enough for us to let him rot on our bench if the need arises. He has a contract til 2015, he is a world class player, he is young, he should NOT be going for anything in the region of £31-35m.

If this were happening anywhere else you would not expect movement for under 50m euros.

Doesn't make sense, does it? They penny pinch everywhere to the extent they are comfortable with seeing the club slide backwards. But when they have a real asset that is worth the big bucks, they sell on the cheap. Sounds to me like they are so desperate to cash in on him they don't want to jeopardise the deal by demanding a fair price.

[Niall_Quinn]

That is so wrong I don't know where to start.

If Cesc goes for 35m, hell if he goes for anything less than 50m, it's a good deal for Barca but there's been an undercurrent of opinion for a while that the team might be better off without him, others stepping up and taking responsibility or him just not being suited to the Premiership. If they're right it'd work out but I can't help but think we're getting done, at a time when we need guys with the right attitude we could be losing a world class guy who has that right attitude for less than he's worth.

I'm talking in football terms, in business terms I agree - the stadium move has been a spectacular success for the board members. On the pitch though - well you know how that worked out.

You'r suspicions are right about Fabregas. If instead of worrying about how much we can flog him for, if the board and manager had a shred of ambition and decided instead to put a few world class players around him, then what? Holy shit, we might win something. Let's just say, there isn't another Fabregas lurking anywhere, whatever we end up with in midfield next year will be inferior. Certainly it's possible an inferior player might be better suited to a change in style but that implies Wenger is willing to change. Fat chance of that.

[Flavs]

Wouldnt it be really, really fuckin funny though if on Friday we announce we have sold Fabregas to Real Madrid for £15mil and benzema. Can you imagine the look on the Barca players faces? I genuinely believe that Pique would swoon..

Fabs then goes on to be a hate figure of Figo/Ronaldo stature for Barca fans

[Darth Vela]

I'm talking in footballing terms too.

We're never going to agree on that though so it's not so much 'debate'.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm talking in footballing terms too.

We're never going to agree on that though so it's not so much 'debate'.

It's going to be hard to get behind this club next season. I will of course, but I can't stand fucking losers who won't help themselves. That's what Wenger is, a bloke who wants to moan about and blame what every other club is doing instead of getting on and fixing the mess he's made at home. Yes, we can agree to disagree but surely nobody is in disagreement about the tragic comedy that unfolds on the pitch? If this is a step forward then we need to slow down, maybe go into reverse for a while. We might win something.

[Cripps_orig]

Busquets is the latest to speak about Cesc

[Letters]

So you think the moral superiority cup is coming our way again next season? If it wasn't for the humiliating reversals on the pitch we could gloat at the nasty Manchester Utds and Chelseas, poor sods have to spend money to win things. Losers.

I think that in 10 or 20 years time our strategy will have been shown to be correct.
It's nothing to do with morality. If you rely on a sugar daddy then he's your weak point. If he walks away you could be in trouble.
If you live beyond your means then that is unsustainable and at some point you could be in trouble.

Yes, Chelsea have won trophies. Well done them. But they've done it by spending big. You know as well as I they wouldn't have won anything in the last decade without Abramovic. If their fans don't care then that's because they're morons. I wouldn't want Arsenal to achieve success that way. It would be as meaningless as buying a degree off the internet rather than working for it.

[Letters]

It will take megabucks to replace the talent of Fabregas if we let him go on the cheap. And as it will take megabucks, it won't happen.

I disagree. If anything I think we've become too reliant on him and could be as good in midfield with Nasri, Wilshere and Ramsey in midfield.
If Cesc goes then I would like to see a replacement but it wouldn't be like for like and I don't think it would cost megabucks.
Like when Henry went, we just played a different way and we were far better the following season without him.

[Darth Vela]

It's going to be hard to get behind this club next season. I will of course, but I can't stand fucking losers who won't help themselves. That's what Wenger is, a bloke who wants to moan about and blame what every other club is doing instead of getting on and fixing the mess he's made at home. Yes, we can agree to disagree but surely nobody is in disagreement about the tragic comedy that unfolds on the pitch? If this is a step forward then we need to slow down, maybe go into reverse for a while. We might win something.

I agree with everything you've said in the first part of the post, I just don't think it applies to Wenger. No-one can dispute there's problems, there's just a lot of variety in opinions on how bad they are and what's required to fix it, the only thing I KNOW for certain is that Wenger is trying to solve them and wants to win again as much as any of us; if he can't, he should go, no argument from me.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Busquets is the latest to speak about Cesc

You really suprised, i mean they have had everyone but the mascott talk about him so far one more player won't hurt.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We live within our means and don't rely on a sugar daddy.
I would argue that we're trying to do things the 'right' way rather than getting ourselves in silly levels of of debt or being some billionaire's plaything.
I applaud that. Long term I still think that will be shown to have been the right thing to do.

What's annoying is while others have spent big Wenger has built a squad which is capable of challenging but doesn't because of poor defensive coaching and weak mentality, things which it wouldn't take megabucks to fix.

This. I think Wengers big problem over the years was mainly CC and fa cup snobbery. i think had we taken those more seriously and won those trophies a few times in the last few seasons, winning the league will come into its own.

end of the day no point in moaning about Wenger or shouting wenger out i have decided because he ain't going anywhere for a few years yet. so ill get behind him for a season at least and hope he does what needs to done for the love of the club.

[Cripps_orig]

We live within our means and don't rely on a sugar daddy.
I would argue that we're trying to do things the 'right' way rather than getting ourselves in silly levels of of debt or being some billionaire's plaything.
I applaud that. Long term I still think that will be shown to have been the right thing to do.

Youre right in what you say to some extent.

But we do need to spend money. No one is asking for Wenger to go spend £100m this summer which is what he seems to think the fans want. We dont want him to do what hes doing and spend pennies on shite ass players either. There is a middle ground which Wenger cant see.

If spending £30m on one player this summer puts us in to financial trouble then questions must be asked about our financial position. Surely cant be as good as its made out to be

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:wave: although if we don't get £45m then he's staying

Nah well buckle under the pressure if we ain't alrready. Uncle Arsene will let his favourite nephew go and live hs dream.

But i agree fab is gone.

[Power n Glory]

I disagree. If anything I think we've become too reliant on him and could be as good in midfield with Nasri, Wilshere and Ramsey in midfield.
If Cesc goes then I would like to see a replacement but it wouldn't be like for like and I don't think it would cost megabucks.
Like when Henry went, we just played a different way and we were far better the following season without him.

I disagree with this. In our final 4 games without Cesc and with Wilshire, Ramsey and Nasri playing, we managaed to beat Man U by one goal but lost to Stoke (3-1), lost to A. Villa (2-1) and were lucky to draw with Fulham (2-2). We were still fighting for 3rd place at this point. There have been plenty of games where players have had the chance to step their game up without Cesc involved and it just doesn't happen. The only player that has shown he's capable is RVP and that's because he is an experienced international player with quality. We can't keep getting rid of these types of players and somehow think we'll get better without them. It's also crazy to think the solution will come from within the camp. We should know better after what we've seen this season and past seasons. It shouldn't take a player leaving for these guys to step their game up.

[Letters]

Youre right in what you say to some extent.

But we do need to spend money. No one is asking for Wenger to go spend £100m this summer which is what he seems to think the fans want. We dont want him to do what hes doing and spend pennies on shite ass players either. There is a middle ground which Wenger cant see.

If spending £30m on one player this summer puts us in to financial trouble then questions must be asked about our financial position. Surely cant be as good as its made out to be

Agreed

[Letters]

I disagree with this. In our final 4 games without Cesc and with Wilshire, Ramsey and Nasri playing, we managaed to beat Man U by one goal but lost to Stoke (3-1), lost to A. Villa (2-1) and were lucky to draw with Fulham (2-2). We were still fighting for 3rd place at this point. There have been plenty of games where players have had the chance to step their game up without Cesc involved and it just doesn't happen. The only player that has shown he's capable is RVP and that's because he is an experienced international player with quality. We can't keep getting rid of these types of players and somehow think we'll get better without them. It's also crazy to think the solution will come from within the camp. We should know better after what we've seen this season and past seasons. It shouldn't take a player leaving for these guys to step their game up.

Our collapse lasted far more than 4 games, wasn't Cesc playing for part of that collapse?
He's a great player but he's had extended injuries in previous seasons and we've not fallen apart.
I don't think we should go out of our way to get rid of our best players but if they want to go then IMO we might as well.
Also, if Cesc goes then we might just get a proper captain. He's a great player but not a great captain.

[Ollie the Optimist]

so barca have told cesc to go on strike next week so we give in and let him go for 27 million. i mean seriously? how the fuck can they get away with this, telling him to go on strike so they dont pay so much. bunch of cunts. if cesc does go on strike, i hope we pubically strip him of captaincy and stick him in the reserves so barca fuck him around not us. stupid cunts.


tbh i am surprised they havnt taken his family hostage or wengers and threaten to kill them unless we sell for 27million. classless cheating cunts

[LDG]

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0905/face-palm-cream-demotivational-poster-1241738067.jpg

[Ollie the Optimist]

:wave: although if we don't get £45m then he's staying


i heard rvp was left out too and that there are none of our internationals in it. could be wrong as havnt seen it though

[Flavs]

Barca have had an offer of £40.3mil for Neymar accepted so i doubt they will now pay £45 for cesc

[Cripps_orig]

i heard rvp was left out too and that there are none of our internationals in it. could be wrong as havnt seen it though

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/new-2011/12-away-kit-picture-gallery

[Joker]

I agree that we are the ultimate expression of the marketisation of football. Sure, we're not the only example, but we are the ones who have embraced it most religiously. The reason why we're not in the spotlight is that the gradual change from football club to corporation that has taken place at Arsenal has been relatively subtle, especially since we've not been bought by an extrovert businessman with a lot of money to spend, like City and Chelsea, who face the greatest criticism because the expression of corporate interest is out in the open. While our board and Chief Exec may prattle on about sustainability and how we're not like other clubs like Chelsea and City, the reality is that we're in some ways much worse. With City and Chelsea, at least their owners actually care about winning trophies, although their motivation for that is not altruistic (they don't really care about the fans, but realise winning trophies is good for their ego and gives the businesses more publicity)
I am not defending the business models of City and Chelsea or their owners in any way, but we can't be hypocritical and claim we're a paragon of virtue in comparison. Like another poster has said, we're a business first and a football club second. The main considerations that matter to the board is their return on their investment, property deals, profits, turnovers, etc etc.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Barca have had an offer of £40.3mil for Neymar accepted so i doubt they will now pay £45 for cesc

Yeah but so have Chelsea,city, Madrid and other teams don't mean he is going to barca

[Ollie the Optimist]

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/new-2011/12-away-kit-picture-gallery

ok so quite a few players are not in that. arshavin, cesc, rvp, theo, kos, sagna, song, jd, etc

so i dont think we cant quite say cesc is gone because he isnt in it given some others missing from it

[Alias]

Who the fuck is Neymar and WHY is he worth £40m? ridiculous. Im so fed up of stupid money being spent on absolute NOBODY'S around the globe.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Barca have had an offer of £40.3mil for Neymar accepted so i doubt they will now pay £45 for cesc


but they have no money? they could only spend 40 million all summer. havnt they bid 30 million for sanchez or something too?

[IBK]

I agree that we are the ultimate expression of the marketisation of football. Sure, we're not the only example, but we are the ones who have embraced it most religiously. The reason why we're not in the spotlight is that the gradual change from football club to corporation that has taken place at Arsenal has been relatively subtle, especially since we've not been bought by an extrovert businessman with a lot of money to spend, like City and Chelsea, who face the greatest criticism because the expression of corporate interest is out in the open. While our board and Chief Exec may prattle on about sustainability and how we're not like other clubs like Chelsea and City, the reality is that we're in some ways much worse. With City and Chelsea, at least their owners actually care about winning trophies, although their motivation for that is not altruistic (they don't really care about the fans, but realise winning trophies is good for their ego and gives the businesses more publicity)
I am not defending the business models of City and Chelsea or their owners in any way, but we can't be hypocritical and claim we're a paragon of virtue in comparison. Like another poster has said, we're a business first and a football club second. The main considerations that matter to the board is their return on their investment, property deals, profits, turnovers, etc etc.


But don't you have to have to concentrate on business to try to compete with the sugar daddies? Its not like there's a third alternative, is there (well, apart from bankrupting yourself)? We can hardly be expected to buck the market altogether, and there is certainly some virtue in trying to be self-sustainable and develop rather than cherry pick the wordls best players/

Not saying that we have the balance right - but I don't think the club can be censured for not trying to buy trophies with money that the club doesn't have?

[Flavs]

Yeah but so have Chelsea,city, Madrid and other teams don't mean he is going to barca

the point was that £38mil for Sanchez, £40mil for Neymar, fuck if they are going to spend another £45mil on aplayer they clearly arent that arse about

[Flavs]

but they have no money? they could only spend 40 million all summer. havnt they bid 30 million for sanchez or something too?

yep but they are selling David Villa to Chelsea apparently

[Ollie the Optimist]

yep but they are selling David Villa to Chelsea apparently

ah ok but still they are still throwing money around. i believe taht sanchez and neymar are more likely to be bought then villa sound.

[Marc Overmars]

Who the fuck is Neymar and WHY is he worth £40m? ridiculous. Im so fed up of stupid money being spent on absolute NOBODY'S around the globe.

The next Brazilian star apparently.

40m is his release clause btw, not just a random figure clubs are bidding.

[Power n Glory]

Our collapse lasted far more than 4 games, wasn't Cesc playing for part of that collapse?
He's a great player but he's had extended injuries in previous seasons and we've not fallen apart.
I don't think we should go out of our way to get rid of our best players but if they want to go then IMO we might as well.
Also, if Cesc goes then we might just get a proper captain. He's a great player but not a great captain.

Of course it lasted longer than 4 games but I shouldn’t have to point out the obvious. It’s a crazy notion to think we’ll some how get better by selling our best players and replacing them with the flops that are already in the team. It’s the blueprint we have followed for the last six years and it’s got us nowhere. If people want radical change, then our first step is to keep our star players and build on that. In plenty of games where we’ve been without Cesc and been unable to unlock teams, I’ve heard people say we miss Cesc.

If we’re going to lose Cesc at least bring in a serious quality player that can take the responsibility on his shoulder to either create goals or score. Both would be an absolute bonus. Right now, we don’t have that in our team and if we did they would have done it during the Carling Cup final or when we needed the wins to bring home the title.

It just baffles me how every year people trip on this same stumbling block. We’ve followed the same pattern for the last six years and I would have thought people would have learned by now. If we sell, at least make sure it’s worth our while and buy a ready made class player to help the squad.

[IBK]

I can't understand why people cannot see that Fabregas's:

1. Increasingly injury prone nature
2. Self-evident disillusionment with playing for us, and
3. Pining for Barca, and (most likely) agreement to give us only one more year, last Summer
4. Lack of interest in playing for anyone else

Are not factors that will seriously address his transfer value. Last Summer, I said that Fabreags would still play 100% for us is he stayed. I was wrong, and I think that if he stays, these lacklustre performances will be even more apparent.

Wenger can only extracate himself from this as well as he can in the circumstances. I think his track record of selling players is pretty good, on the whole.

[LDG]

Of course it lasted longer than 4 games but I shouldn’t have to point out the obvious. It’s a crazy notion to think we’ll some how get better by selling our best players and replacing them with the flops that are already in the team. It’s the blueprint we have followed for the last six years and it’s got us nowhere. If people want radical change, then our first step is to keep our star players and build on that. In plenty of games where we’ve been without Cesc and been unable to unlock teams, I’ve heard people say we miss Cesc.

If we’re going to lose Cesc at least bring in a serious quality player that can take the responsibility on his shoulder to either create goals or score. Both would be an absolute bonus. Right now, we don’t have that in our team and if we did they would have done it during the Carling Cup final or when we needed the wins to bring home the title.

It just baffles me how every year people trip on this same stumbling block. We’ve followed the same pattern for the last six years and I would have thought people would have learned by now. If we sell, at least make sure it’s worth our while and buy a ready made class player to help the squad.

We lost Vieira don't forget. And who had heard of Francesc Fabregas before he started playing in the side. And effectively replaced Vieira.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I can't understand why people cannot see that Fabregas's:

1. Increasingly injury prone nature
2. Self-evident disillusionment with playing for us, and
3. Pining for Barca, and (most likely) agreement to give us only one more year, last Summer
4. Lack of interest in playing for anyone else

Are not factors that will seriously address his transfer value. Last Summer, I said that Fabreags would still play 100% for us is he stayed. I was wrong, and I think that if he stays, these lacklustre performances will be even more apparent.

Wenger can only extracate himself from this as well as he can in the circumstances. I think his track record of selling players is pretty good, on the whole.

hmm i think the lacklustre performances wont happen purely beacause the fans wont have it. there was more anger at the players this season then ever before. given the whole saga with him and nasri, they gonna have to win the fans back. both will have seen what happened to ade so know what to expect

[IBK]

hmm i think the lacklustre performances wont happen purely beacause the fans wont have it. there was more anger at the players this season then ever before. given the whole saga with him and nasri, they gonna have to win the fans back. both will have seen what happened to ade so know what to expect

I don't think that most of them give a monkeys how the fans feel.

[Boss]

We lost Vieira don't forget. And who had heard of Francesc Fabregas before he started playing in the side. And effectively replaced Vieira.

We suffered on the pitch while Fabregas learned, and will suffer while Ramsey/Wilshere learn if he is not replaced.

[Niall_Quinn]

We lost Vieira don't forget. And who had heard of Francesc Fabregas before he started playing in the side. And effectively replaced Vieira.

And now we lose Fabregas, which is fine because who had heard of Jack Wilshere before he started playing in the side...? And you know the rest, long before it actually happens. We're a tier 2 selling club when the whole point of the damn move was to secure a place in the top flight.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

the point was that £38mil for Sanchez, £40mil for Neymar, fuck if they are going to spend another £45mil on aplayer they clearly arent that arse about

Fair point. well its cesc who suffers if they buy Neymar.

[LDG]

We suffered on the pitch while Fabregas learned, and will suffer while Ramsey/Wilshere learn if he is not replaced.

I fully expect Nasri to fill that role if cesc goes.

If Fabregas goes, it frees up the wage hike for Nasri, which is all he wants.

If they both go, and they are not replaced, then Wengers head is on the block, no doubt about it. Already is tbh.

[Niall_Quinn]

I can't understand why people cannot see that Fabregas's:

1. Increasingly injury prone nature
2. Self-evident disillusionment with playing for us, and
3. Pining for Barca, and (most likely) agreement to give us only one more year, last Summer
4. Lack of interest in playing for anyone else

Are not factors that will seriously address his transfer value. Last Summer, I said that Fabreags would still play 100% for us is he stayed. I was wrong, and I think that if he stays, these lacklustre performances will be even more apparent.

Wenger can only extracate himself from this as well as he can in the circumstances. I think his track record of selling players is pretty good, on the whole.

If Wenger had done his job and built a winning team then the players would be less likely to want out. The whole club reeks of failure, little wonder the players are checking their options. I don't condone that but that's how it is in the modern game, the players are scumbags. If you want to hold on to them you have to give the greedy bastards even more than the wheelbarrows of cash, they want medals too. Effectively we've wasted Fabregas, just like we've wasted Theo and we'll waste Wilshere too. That's because it's Wenger that keeps us "2%" from success with his stubborn and counter-productive penny pinching, his refusal to accept when he's demonstrably wrong and his pathological disdain for the English game. Sheer arrogance and nothing to justify it.

[LDG]

And now we lose Fabregas, which is fine because who had heard of Jack Wilshere before he started playing in the side...? And you know the rest, long before it actually happens. We're a tier 2 selling club when the whole point of the damn move was to secure a place in the top flight.

No, because we're getting rid of one of Nasri or Cesc.

I'll eat my own face if I'm wrong, but selling cesc will free up the wages that Nasri wants, which is why we're all hanging around and waving our cocks in the air.

Christ.

It's murder, I'll gant you, but I think we're awaiting an offer from Barca which will fit in with our plans. Regardless of whether it's market value or not.

Course it's frustrating, but Nasri is more than capable of filling that role.

[Power n Glory]

I can't understand why people cannot see that Fabregas's:

1. Increasingly injury prone nature
2. Self-evident disillusionment with playing for us, and
3. Pining for Barca, and (most likely) agreement to give us only one more year, last Summer
4. Lack of interest in playing for anyone else

Are not factors that will seriously address his transfer value. Last Summer, I said that Fabreags would still play 100% for us is he stayed. I was wrong, and I think that if he stays, these lacklustre performances will be even more apparent.

Wenger can only extracate himself from this as well as he can in the circumstances. I think his track record of selling players is pretty good, on the whole.

I think most people can understand the reasons for selling Cesc but not for £30m. That is a ridiculous price.

I won’t ever understand us selling off our star players and then going for the cheap option. We won’t win anything if we keep repeating the same actions.

[LDG]

I should add. The price on Cesc's head is what we need in order to spend what we're planning to spend in the window. Whether that's his value plus another few quid, I don't know.

One thing we do know, is that we'll balance it all out with a zero net spend, or maybe a few mill +

[Niall_Quinn]

No, because we're getting rid of one of Nasri or Cesc.

I'll eat my own face if I'm wrong, but selling cesc will free up the wages that Nasri wants, which is why we're all hanging around and waving our cocks in the air.

Christ.

It's murder, I'll gant you, but I think we're awaiting an offer from Barca which will fit in with our plans. Regardless of whether it's market value or not.

Course it's frustrating, but Nasri is more than capable of filling that role.

My point is, if Nasri does fill that role and he does it well then he'll be off next year too.

[Flavs]

Also on the injury prone thing, this is the first summer since 2007 that Cesc has had a proper summer holiday, its not really a surprise he is a little fatigued.

I have nothing but respect for the lad personally, he could of come out at any time and demanded a transfer or refused to play, he could of moutehd off in the press about being held ransom by the club or talked of how shite we are and how green things are at Barca but no, he has made his position clear and then shut the fuck up. Fair play to him.

[LDG]

My point is, if Nasri does fill that role and he does it well then he'll be off next year too.

C'est le footballer modern non??

Ronaldo did it. Rooney was doing a Nasri before Christmas. They're all at it.

But you're a little upset right now, and I get that :lol:

[Toronto Gooner]

Also on the injury prone thing, this is the first summer since 2007 that Cesc has had a proper summer holiday, its not really a surprise he is a little fatigued.

I have nothing but respect for the lad personally, he could of come out at any time and demanded a transfer or refused to play, he could of moutehd off in the press about being held ransom by the club or talked of how shite we are and how green things are at Barca but no, he has made his position clear and then shut the fuck up. Fair play to him.
I would have had a lot more respect for him if he had formally asked for a transfer rather than undertake this transfer by proxy campaign. Last week there was an article saying that Fabregas was prepared to let Arsenal receive the 15% signing fee that he is entitled to under his contract (that is he gets 15% of the transfer fee). What it did not say is that fee is forfeit if he officially asks for a transfer. I believe that the lack of a transfer request is purely financial and not out of respect to Arsenal.

[Flavs]

I would have had a lot more respect for him if he had formally asked for a transfer rather than undertake this transfer by proxy campaign. Last week there was an article saying that Fabregas was prepared to let Arsenal receive the 15% signing fee that he is entitled to under his contract (that is he gets 15% of the transfer fee). What it did not say is that fee is forfeit if he officially asks for a transfer. I believe that the lack of a transfer request is purely financial and not out of respect to Arsenal.

Jesus give him the benefit of the doubt why dont you.

[Ollie the Optimist]

i really hope cesc starts to see barca for what they are and comes out and says, so you want me that badly yet you wont pay the fee for me yet some unproven kid you will fork out 40 million for?

[Toronto Gooner]

Jesus give him the benefit of the doubt why dont you.
I would if he has made even the slightest effort to shut up Barcelona and its players. The fact that you are prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt would suggest that his efforts are working, IMO.

[Flavs]

I would if he has made even the slightest effort to shut up Barcelona and its players. The fact that you are prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt would suggest that his efforts are working, IMO.

I dont have a reason to doubt him do I? he said he wants to play for them at some point but until teh club say otherwise he is committed to Arsenal. he isnt in control of what the media do or what the Barca PR machine and their monkey players are saying or not saying to papers.

As i say he made his position clear and shut up, as did Wenger, as did PHW and Ivan. The only people mouthing off and trying to work an angle, from what i can see, are Barca and the media.

Think of him waht you will mate but 99% of players would have caved by now and just handed in a transfer request or gone on strike, he hasnt, he hasnt disrespected the club , the fans or the manager who made him that puts him in high esteem to me.

[Coney]

I dont have a reason to doubt him do I? he said he wants to play for them at some point but until teh club say otherwise he is committed to Arsenal. he isnt in control of what the media do or what the Barca PR machine and their monkey players are saying or not saying to papers.

As i say he made his position clear and shut up, as did Wenger, as did PHW and Ivan. The only people mouthing off and trying to work an angle, from what i can see, are Barca and the media.

Think of him waht you will mate but 99% of players would have caved by now and just handed in a transfer request or gone on strike, he hasnt, he hasnt disrespected the club , the fans or the manager who made him that puts him in high esteem to me.

:gp:

Exactly. There is no evidence of him trying any tricks to get to Barca. If he really wanted to go to Barca, he would just have to tell Wenger that he wanted to do that and Wenger would make it happen - Wenger never hangs onto players who express a desire to move on and Cesc knows it. He has no reason whatsoever to try any backhanded stuff. As you say, Barca and the media are the shit stirrers, not Cesc.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Also on the injury prone thing, this is the first summer since 2007 that Cesc has had a proper summer holiday, its not really a surprise he is a little fatigued.

I have nothing but respect for the lad personally, he could of come out at any time and demanded a transfer or refused to play, he could of moutehd off in the press about being held ransom by the club or talked of how shite we are and how green things are at Barca but no, he has made his position clear and then shut the fuck up. Fair play to him.

And all this honoring of a freely signed contract for a paltry £110k a week.

What a player.

What a wonderful human being.

[Flavs]

And all this honoring of a freely signed contract for a paltry £110k a week.

What a player.

What a wonderful human being.

Not really relevant that though is it chuckles? Every player gets paid stooppid money nowadays, if he was motivated purley by green alone he wouldnt go to Barca he would engineer a move to Citeh. He is a world class midfielder for a champs league team and earns a wage relevant to that.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Not really relevant that though is it chuckles? Every player gets paid stooppid money nowadays, if he was motivated purley by green alone he wouldnt go to Barca he would engineer a move to Citeh. He is a world class midfielder for a champs league team and earns a wage relevant to that.

My point is, he aint exactly suffering any hardship here and I don't buy that he is behaving in an honorable way. In fact I think he is a coward who wants the best of everything and is letting others manipulate the move for him.

[Boss]

I dont have a reason to doubt him do I? he said he wants to play for them at some point but until teh club say otherwise he is committed to Arsenal. he isnt in control of what the media do or what the Barca PR machine and their monkey players are saying or not saying to papers.

As i say he made his position clear and shut up, as did Wenger, as did PHW and Ivan. The only people mouthing off and trying to work an angle, from what i can see, are Barca and the media.

Think of him waht you will mate but 99% of players would have caved by now and just handed in a transfer request or gone on strike, he hasnt, he hasnt disrespected the club , the fans or the manager who made him that puts him in high esteem to me.

:gp: to this and every post of yours on this page.

[LDG]

Like I've said before.

I think he's quite happy to turn out for Arsenal if that's what he has to do. Just like he's happy to move to Barca.

He's in no rush so far as I can see, being 24, he has plenty of time to piss off and play for them.

The only thing that I would say, is that he sees what we've guffed out the last few seasons, and can see what Barca have won....why wouldn't he want to leave.

He's being professional about it so far as I can see.

[Cripps_orig]

Dont see why Cesc saying he wants to play for Barca at some point is used as some sort of reason why him pining for a move there is acceptable?

Hes an Arsenal player so to say he wants to play for another club is disrespectful for us so hes a cunt tbh.

We made him the player he is after Barca put him on the scrapheap so he owes us a lot more than what hes given us. He owes Barca fuck all.

If he wants to join Barca then tell them to come up with the money we want or tell them to STFU. It is that simple

[Kano]

hope he stays.

great player

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Like I've said before.

I think he's quite happy to turn out for Arsenal if that's what he has to do. Just like he's happy to move to Barca.

He's in no rush so far as I can see, being 24, he has plenty of time to piss off and play for them.

The only thing that I would say, is that he sees what we've guffed out the last few seasons, and can see what Barca have won....why wouldn't he want to leave.

He's being professional about it so far as I can see.

I have been saying that I think we should cash in but not by selling ourselves short as we would have a lot of rebuilding to do

to his credit Cesc has behaved well enough for me, havent heard much to date

TBH its his twat of group of friends that need shooting

what was the latest, encouraging him to go on strike........paper talk I know but Iw ouldnt put it past those dicks Pique and Puyol......absolute cocks

[Power n Glory]

No, because we're getting rid of one of Nasri or Cesc.

I'll eat my own face if I'm wrong, but selling cesc will free up the wages that Nasri wants, which is why we're all hanging around and waving our cocks in the air.

Christ.

It's murder, I'll gant you, but I think we're awaiting an offer from Barca which will fit in with our plans. Regardless of whether it's market value or not.

Course it's frustrating, but Nasri is more than capable of filling that role.

Nasri is yet to sign a deal and there is a slight possibility that he's not bullshitting when he says this isn't about money. Maybe the lack of ambition is a problem for him. He moved away from his boyhood club for a reason. Selling Cesc could work against us if he's actually stalling on contracts because he wants to see who we sign. Cesc leaving benefits him but he's supposed to be a true football fan that loves the game. He's acting like a total prick at the moment but it contradicts all the things I've read about him and his actions while playing in France.

We'll soon see.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Barca bought the cunt yet

[McNamara That Ghost...]

No, I suspect there would be a fair few more posts if we had. And cunt? :unsure:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

No, I suspect there would be a fair few more posts if we had. And cunt? :unsure:

meant it in a jokey way.

[dazthegooner]

As has been said think its time for Cesc to leave but good on the board for standing up to those arseholes (for the moment at least) we must get top dollar for him and then spend the fooking lot and Nasri must stay no matter what.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

this in the Mirror today, last night?


But any success is unlikely to feature Fabregas, as Barcelona last night made an improved £34m bid for the Gunners skipper.

It has led to Fabregas cancelling a public appearance at a football campus in Tordera, Spain, today so he can avoid answering difficult questions.

Arsenal rejected £27m last week but are keen to bank at least £40m.

Real Madrid were also reported to have entered the bidding yesterday with an offer of around £45m and Arsenal will be happy at news of a battle to drive the price up.

Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Arsenal-fear-they-will-lose-Cesc-Fabregas-AND-Manchester-United-Samir-Nasri-THIS-WEEK-Exclusive-article753708.html#ixzz1Qe9H0JPg


starting to get interesting, hopefully we can rely on Ade (if he is still around) to put a good word in for us.

[selassie]

I've got a feeling this one will be done pretty soon.

[LDG]

I've got a feeling this one will be done pretty soon.

Depends if they offer the right amount.

[selassie]

Depends if they offer the right amount.

Well if we believe the tabloids the right amount is 40-45, but I can see us accepting 35.

[Özim]

Depends if they offer the right amount.
I don't think we're going to get what we want, from the comments we've heard I reckon we'll let him go for less than that as we know he wants to go to Barca.

The fact there's no competition to sign him is hindering our chances of getting the price we want.

[Özim]

Well if we believe the tabloids the right amount is 40-45, but I can see us accepting 35.
Yeah me too, if other clubs were interested it might be different but since they're not we'll sell at a slightly lower fee IMO.

Edit: Seems Real have supposedly entered the bidding...maybe there's hope of a bigger fee.

[LDG]

Well if we believe the tabloids the right amount is 40-45, but I can see us accepting 35.

I think the amount must make up 40-45 and we'll accept. Whether that's 35 + add ons / players etc I don't know.

If we take 35 and that's all, there'll be uproar.

[Flavs]

I've got a feeling this one will be done pretty soon.

Next summer at a guess.

Balance the price scales? They are the only club wants him, they are the only club he will go to, they claim to not have any money, his family lives there and his boyfriend plays there, also he isnt English.

On the other side

Master economist Arsene Wenger, he has a four year contract, we are more financially stable than Barca and have no need for their money, he is happy to play here, he is our captain and by far our best player

Also...

He is a 24 year old world class midfielder who has already won a world cup and euopean championship, has a world class reputation and can play any of the midfield styles. Add into this the market is skewed due to the Madrids, Chavs, Citeh's, scousers and random russian teams thoring around silly money. Oh and the marketing from him would bring in millions as well.

Taking all this into account i think about £47mil would be about right, cough up or cock off.

[Joker]

We should definely hold out for at least £10M more than what Barca are offering, but the problem is, if a deal doesn't go through, we may end up having an unhappy player remain at the club. What happens if Cesc becomes moody, uninterested and plays badly? What if he simply goes through the motions in every match? He's no use to us like that, and it'd be better to let him rot in the reserves. However, if that happens, we are one midfielder down, and unless we sign a "replacement" to Cesc we're in trouble. However, would our board want to spend money on a midfielder, without having the funds from Cesc's sale? Because of this, I think we'll eventually lose our nerve and accept less than his true value.

[Elche]

Comments here in Spain say Barca offer now 34 million + 4 million add ons ( Cesc winning laliga or CL )

[KSE Comedy Club]

Dont know is this has been posted yet:



BBC: Barcelona have made an improved £34m offer for Arsenal midfielder Cesc Fabregas and are also hoping to recruit Samir Nasri for £20m.



Un-fucking-believable.

[selassie]

Dont know is this has been posted yet:



Un-fucking-believable.

BBC error, United are after Nasri for 20million according to the RAGS.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Ah, right I see :good:








Un-fucking-believable.

[Flavs]

BBC error, United are after Nasri for 20million according to the RAGS.

I dont think anyone but maybe PSG are after Nasri tbh, he just has a very creative agent

[Darth Vela]

We should definely hold out for at least £10M more than what Barca are offering, but the problem is, if a deal doesn't go through, we may end up having an unhappy player remain at the club. What happens if Cesc becomes moody, uninterested and plays badly? What if he simply goes through the motions in every match? He's no use to us like that, and it'd be better to let him rot in the reserves. However, if that happens, we are one midfielder down, and unless we sign a "replacement" to Cesc we're in trouble. However, would our board want to spend money on a midfielder, without having the funds from Cesc's sale? Because of this, I think we'll eventually lose our nerve and accept less than his true value.

I'm pretty sure Cesc will give us 100%, he wasn't fully there last season as the accumulated fatigue got to him imo but if he stays he'd give us as much as he always has. Worth remembering that Cesc ain't dumb as well, he knows how much he's worth and will understand if Barca aren't willing to pay enough that any move would be failing down their end, not ours, he likes it here too so he won't be bitter and twisted over everything Arsenal.

[Grebbo]

I think £20m for Nasri is a good offer. One year left on his contract and produced 4 months of good football in his Arsenal career.

Wenger's project is being smashed to pieces.

[Grebbo]

Comments here in Spain say Barca offer now 34 million + 4 million add ons ( Cesc winning laliga or CL )

They'll eventually get to £40m cash and we'll sell - probably on the last day of the window.

Good deal all round IMO.

[Coney]

I think £20m for Nasri is a good offer. One year left on his contract and produced 4 months of good football in his Arsenal career.

Wenger's project is being smashed to pieces.

Already has been, in terms of trying to build almost an entire team from an academy. However, I think since the final matches of last season, Wenger is resigned to that and is going to be buying in. If we sell Cesc and Nasri but get a decent CB, a goal-scoring striker and a couple more solid players to give a bit of spine, I think we will still have a much better team than last year in terms of winning the PL. No mistake, Nasi and Cesc on form is awesome but without those two, we still have good enough players for those kind of roles and if we buy Mata and a couple of others, we might actually be better off in the long term. If we could keep Nasri and Cesc AND also buy in the key players, that would be fantastic but that is just never going to happen. Remember that when manu sold Ronaldo and Rooney was playing a pile of toss, it looked as if they were doomed but with a decent backbone and other players performing, they pulled it off. We can do the same.

[selassie]

I dont think anyone but maybe PSG are after Nasri tbh, he just has a very creative agent

Awww come on Flavs, he has a year left on his contract and is a talented player, I reckon there are a few clubs sniffing.

P.S. I do agree his agent talks too much :d

[Ollie the Optimist]

the thing with cesc is that everyone knows, even the board know that he will never play for another club bar Arsenal or cuntolona. so it doesnt matter if citeh come in and bid 600 billion for him because he will sign for them. i guess cuntolona know this and hence why they believe they can get him cheaply.

still cant understand how they say a world cup winning world class midfielder is not worth 30 million because of wear and tear but a kid is worth 40 million though

[Darth Vela]

It's quite easy to say really, they just open their mouths and bullshit comes out, seems to be an automatic reaction on the part of anyone involved with Barca :)

[Toronto Gooner]

the thing with cesc is that everyone knows, even the board know that he will never play for another club bar Arsenal or cuntolona. so it doesnt matter if citeh come in and bid 600 billion for him because he will sign for them. i guess cuntolona know this and hence why they believe they can get him cheaply.

still cant understand how they say a world cup winning world class midfielder is not worth 30 million because of wear and tear but a kid is worth 40 million though
I wonder how his "supporters" would react if he agreed to go to Real Madrid?

[Marc Overmars]

Barca don't love him nearly as much as he loves them.

He should man up and realise they don't care if they get him or not.

[hymppi]

Remember that when manu sold Ronaldo and Rooney was playing a pile of toss, it looked as if they were doomed but with a decent backbone and other players performing, they pulled it off. We can do the same.[/QUOTE]


eh? we don't have a backbone. we have something similar though, as our new away kit is made of recycled bottle(r)s.

[Coney]

eh? we don't have a backbone. we have something similar though, as our new away kit is made of recycled bottle(r)s.

I meant we can do the same if we have a backbone - that was what I meant by us using the money from selling Cesc/Nasri to buy such players.

[hymppi]

I meant we can do the same if we have a backbone - that was what I meant by us using the money from selling Cesc/Nasri to buy such players.

:goodpost:

[Cripps_orig]

Spanish reports say Barca will announce the transfers of Cesc the cunt and Sanchez on friday.

They said that we have accepted an improved offer by £4.3m.

This is after the cunt said on Spanish tv that "what will happen will happen" He also said that "if a player is on the market, its cos his club doesn't want him"

No you're on the market cos you've been an absolute cunt and I hope he fucks off asap

[Japan Shaking All Over]

just saw this on Sky


Cesc calm over Barca talk
Midfielder staying coy on transfer speculation

Arsenal captain Cesc Fabregas has declared himself calm and optimistic as speculation continues over a possible move to Barcelona.

The Gunners are understood to have rejected one cut-price £27million offer, but Barca are expected to return with an improved deal - offering a player exchange as a sweetener - for the Spain midfielder.

Barcelona have failed in the past two years to re-sign the midfielder, who was a member of their youth Academy before moving to London in 2003.

Fabregas is not bothered by the speculation and is remaining coy on his future.
Calm

"I'm calm and I am optimistic," Fabregas told AS. "I have nothing to say and there is nothing to speak of.

"If something happens, it is because it has to happen.

"For my part, I've begun to get in shape, which is what I have to do."

"I'm calm and I am optimistic. I have nothing to say and there is nothing to speak of."
Cesc Fabregas on his Arsenal future Quotes of the week

There have been rumours that Arsenal could be prepared to sell Fabregas this summer for the right price and the midfielder insists he has no problems if this is the case.

"If a player is on the market it is because the club does not want him. I have no problems," added Fabregas.




I'm calm and I am optimistic - ummmmmm?


"If a player is on the market it is because the club does not want him - double ummmmmm?

oh well! we all know what the end result is going to be, big question is how much for?

do not tell me 4.3 mil Cripps - shit man

[Xhaka Can’t]

Anyone thinking Fabregas is acting honorably in all this is clearly deluding themselves.

I don't give a damn about value anymore, either let him rot at the Club or just get rid of the shit - either way suits me now.

But gotta say, one thing that sickens me more than any of the douchebaggery by and sanctioned by Cesc is the fucking apologists here that somehow reckon we owe some twat that we've paid £110k per week.

Do.

We.

Fuck.

[Ralpheroo72]

Anyone thinking Fabregas is acting honorably in all this is clearly deluding themselves.

I don't give a damn about value anymore, either let him rot at the Club or just get rid of the shit - either way suits me now.

But gotta say, one thing that sickens me more than any of the douchebaggery by and sanctioned by Cesc is the fucking apologists here that somehow reckon we owe some twat that we've paid £110k per week.

Do.

We.

Fuck.

I agree, and that cunt Nasri can fuck off too!

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I have said the same myself but maybe in less uncertain terms!!

I dont give a toss about how Cesc tries to mask his true desire......fans are not mugs and we can tell the honey coated sentiment when we hear it or crocodile tears when we see them

All I want is to see the saga concluded so that we can get on, cash in and build up

BUT completely concur that the club should not be steamrolled into finalising a deal, we need to come out of this as well as possible and that means financially - player deal etc

there are those that complain that they want to see us move faster on the transfer market but I believe that deals will be made in due time - Cesc and Barca cannot come out of this feeling like they havce had one over on us.......we may not ever come out of i feeling so but we need to feel as close to it as possible - the best way to give the bird to the parties is to seriously push Cesc towards Real - would love my nuts off it that deal went down

[Power n Glory]

Anyone thinking Fabregas is acting honorably in all this is clearly deluding themselves.

I don't give a damn about value anymore, either let him rot at the Club or just get rid of the shit - either way suits me now.

But gotta say, one thing that sickens me more than any of the douchebaggery by and sanctioned by Cesc is the fucking apologists here that somehow reckon we owe some twat that we've paid £110k per week.

Do.

We.

Fuck.

You're just offended that he wants to leave the club even though we saw this coming ages ago when we were losing games. Many people said they could understand why Cesc would want to leave when we were throwing away the season.

Cesc has been professional throughout the process, it's just sad that he wants to leave. But the club has decided to sell. It's similar to the Paddy situation. We've seen players do worse things but it always stings a little when a long serving player wants to leave. The reaction was the same when Henry and Paddy left. Harsh words were said as they headed for the exit.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Anyone thinking Fabregas is acting honorably in all this is clearly deluding themselves.

I don't give a damn about value anymore, either let him rot at the Club or just get rid of the shit - either way suits me now.

But gotta say, one thing that sickens me more than any of the douchebaggery by and sanctioned by Cesc is the fucking apologists here that somehow reckon we owe some twat that we've paid £110k per week.

Do.

We.

Fuck.

Hear, hear.

Didnt take him long to go back to his ways of last summer, did it.

[KSE Comedy Club]

You're just offended that he wants to leave the club even though we saw this coming ages ago when we were losing games. Many people said they could understand why Cesc would want to leave when we were throwing away the season.

Cesc has been professional throughout the process, it's just sad that he wants to leave. But the club has decided to sell. It's similar to the Paddy situation. We've seen players do worse things but it always stings a little when a long serving player wants to leave. The reaction was the same when Henry and Paddy left. Harsh words were said as they headed for the exit.

Ahhhh, poor, poor Cesc :(.

Give me a fucking break.

'A player is on the market because his club doesnt want him' - Yes, thats true - except in this case, we didnt want to sell him and he has put himself on the market by encouraging Barca. Dont be so delluded that he hasnt had a hand in all this.

Were only trying to cash in now so we can put this shit to bed, one way or another.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Anyone thinking Fabregas is acting honorably in all this is clearly deluding themselves.

I don't give a damn about value anymore, either let him rot at the Club or just get rid of the shit - either way suits me now.

But gotta say, one thing that sickens me more than any of the douchebaggery by and sanctioned by Cesc is the fucking apologists here that somehow reckon we owe some twat that we've paid £110k per week.

Do.

We.

Fuck.

Yep, I was drinkin last night.

But I stand by the sentiment.

[Özim]

Ahhhh, poor, poor Cesc :(.

Give me a fucking break.

'A player is on the market because his club doesnt want him' - Yes, thats true - except in this case, we didnt want to sell him and he has put himself on the market by encouraging Barca. Dont be so delluded that he hasnt had a hand in all this.

Were only trying to cash in now so we can put this shit to bed, one way or another.
Yeah come on, every year it's the same....Wenger brings in cheap nobodies, doesn't sort problem areas and we completely collapse (it was even worse this year). He has been here 8 years and to be honest after seeing the same thing happen over and over again with no real hope of change are you surprised he's attracted by a move to Barca, his home club and one that is winning things left right and center?

Wenger and his stupid policies have really not helped us keep players here, why would they want to stay and play for a manager who is happy with 4th place and puts together a team who collapse every year (sure he's part of that, but let's face it he's scored and created plenty and done his job better than most or Barca wouldn't want him). He's a top player and want to wins trophies, it's not gonna happen here with Wenger in charge.

I don't hold it against him personally, I can see why he would move...hell a lot of us fans want Wenger out after all as we know the score.

[alexander]

People are getting pretty pissed off with Cesc and this transfer crap, Nasri too. I often wonder if I would be happier with less success, but more loyalty from players. I know we cant have a much less succesful team, but I mean maybe the odd cup here and there, but no always in the champions league.

We have this every year, Viera, Henry, etc etc. Get fed up of it year in year out. I personally blame it on the players. Over the years we have had lots of top top players. Adams, Ljunberg, Bergkamp, Pires, yet these plays in their prime were as good as nasri and cesc, but were not linked with barca/manu/madrid year in year out. Im sure behind the scenes players (or agents) are talking to other clubs. But players like Bergkamp have a loyalty that is missing frm the likes of Cole, Cesc and Nasri.

Fed up with this crap.

[Coney]

Fed up with this crap.

Definitely. Personally, I blame the transfer window which is the most pointless bit of legislation by whoever it was - FIFA? UEFA? I mean what is is supposed to achieve. I thought it had something to do with protecting lower division clubs from top flight clubs buying their players, in which case it is a failure. All this speculation crap would be reduced if there wasn't a window to bring big focus on it. Before windows, deals were generally done on the quiet and you would mostly just become aware after the deal was done. I wish the old system would return. Agents will still do wheeling and dealing - that will not change - but the deadlines would disappear giving a chance for a bit more sense in negotiations. If the agent can play brinkmanship with the end of window deadlines, it is not going to help sensible negotiations.

[LDG]

Yeah come on, every year it's the same....Wenger brings in cheap nobodies, doesn't sort problem areas and we completely collapse (it was even worse this year). He has been here 8 years and to be honest after seeing the same thing happen over and over again with no real hope of change are you surprised he's attracted by a move to Barca, his home club and one that is winning things left right and center?

Wenger and his stupid policies have really not helped us keep players here, why would they want to stay and play for a manager who is happy with 4th place and puts together a team who collapse every year (sure he's part of that, but let's face it he's scored and created plenty and done his job better than most or Barca wouldn't want him). He's a top player and want to wins trophies, it's not gonna happen here with Wenger in charge.

I don't hold it against him personally, I can see why he would move...hell a lot of us fans want Wenger out after all as we know the score.

Yet without Wenger we would never have had Cesc. Funny intit.

Yes, Wenger is partly to blame for not winning trophies, but that is from a pure footballing point of view. Like I've said before, he should have spent more money when it mattered....but the risks he has taken in signing on the cheap, and trusting to chance are partly down to the way the board have wanted this club run. No matter what they say.

Bit sick of your comments, because they reek of contradiction.

Wenger is to blame for a lot of things. This is not one of them.

[LDG]

Cesc leaving is a blessing for me, and I've been saying it for two years now.

Back to swift counter-attack and power play please.

This namby pamby shit is half of our problem.

[selassie]

People are getting pretty pissed off with Cesc and this transfer crap, Nasri too. I often wonder if I would be happier with less success, but more loyalty from players. I know we cant have a much less succesful team, but I mean maybe the odd cup here and there, but no always in the champions league.

We have this every year, Viera, Henry, etc etc. Get fed up of it year in year out. I personally blame it on the players. Over the years we have had lots of top top players. Adams, Ljunberg, Bergkamp, Pires, yet these plays in their prime were as good as nasri and cesc, but were not linked with barca/manu/madrid year in year out. Im sure behind the scenes players (or agents) are talking to other clubs. But players like Bergkamp have a loyalty that is missing frm the likes of Cole, Cesc and Nasri.

Fed up with this crap.

Alex....success breeds loyalty. Cesc has a right to move, he's done his time here and is wanted by the best club in the World, his boyhood club, he's not doing anything wrong in any of this.

The likes of Adams, Ljungberg, Bergkamp & Pires were happy here because they were winning things and were part of a mature team, Arsene wasn't experimenting back them by trying to build teams out of academy graduates.

Arsene has created a monster here, it's no coincidence that our top player want out every single year.

[Özim]

Yet without Wenger we would never have had Cesc. Funny intit.

Yes, Wenger is partly to blame for not winning trophies, but that is from a pure footballing point of view. Like I've said before, he should have spent more money when it mattered....but the risks he has taken in signing on the cheap, and trusting to chance are partly down to the way the board have wanted this club run. No matter what they say.

Bit sick of your comments, because they reek of contradiction.

Wenger is to blame for a lot of things. This is not one of them.
I don't hide the fact I blame Wenger (and the board) for where we are now. He got enough credit when we were successful, so it's time for him to take the heat not that we're not.....personally don't even think he should still be in charge.

If you want to hold onto to your best players then realistically you need to win trophies from time to time or it will be very hard.

The point is Cesc wants to leave and I say fair play to him, why should he stick around exactly when he has the chance to play for one of the biggest clubs in the world who also happen to have a great team and win things every season (also his home club), sounds like a dream come true to me.

He's been with us 8 years and that's a long time for a kid who moved when he was 16, he's put in his shift IMO and I've got no problem if he decided to leave. Even if Wenger hadn't spotted him, I'm pretty sure he'd be featuring for Barca, other youngsters have and they're not half as good!

[Özim]

Alex....success breeds loyalty. Cesc has a right to move, he's done his time here and is wanted by the best club in the World, his boyhood club, he's not doing anything wrong in any of this.

The likes of Adams, Ljungberg, Bergkamp & Pires were happy here because they were winning things and were part of a mature team, Arsene wasn't experimenting back them by trying to build teams out of academy graduates.

Arsene has created a monster here, it's no coincidence that our top player want out every single year.
Brilliant post.

[selassie]

Cesc leaving is a blessing for me, and I've been saying it for two years now.

Back to swift counter-attack and power play please.

This namby pamby shit is half of our problem.

LDG I'd be very careful about what you wish for. I accept that Cesc has to leave but it's by no means a blessing IMHO.

Arsene seems incapable of building "balanced" teams anymore, in fact I wouldn't put it past him to sit on the Cesc money, he's done it before when we recouped 40mill for Kolo & Ade & he refused to buy then.

I know Cesc leaving could mean a change in style, but change isn't always a good thing.

This team needs quality with Cesc still here, without him Arsene has a lot of work to do and he has to spend to make it work IMHO.

[Özim]

Back to swift counter-attack and power play please.

This namby pamby shit is half of our problem.
I've been saying that for years, but selling Cesc isn't going to change that.

This is the way the manager wants his team to play at the end of the day, get rid of him and you've got a better chance of change....with him still here we may continue to be a cheap Barca clone.

The short triangular passing is something drilled into them in training, not sure how losing one player will change that unless that changes.

[selassie]

I've been saying that for years, but selling Cesc isn't going to change that.

This is the way the manager wants his team to play at the end of the day, get rid of him and you've got a better chance of change....with him still here we may continue to be a cheap Barca clone.

The short triangular passing is something drilled into them in training, not sure how lsong one player will change that unless that changes.

:good:

Yup totally agree Zim, Arsene is the problem.

[alexander]

Alex....success breeds loyalty. Cesc has a right to move, he's done his time here and is wanted by the best club in the World, his boyhood club, he's not doing anything wrong in any of this.

The likes of Adams, Ljungberg, Bergkamp & Pires were happy here because they were winning things and were part of a mature team, Arsene wasn't experimenting back them by trying to build teams out of academy graduates.

Arsene has created a monster here, it's no coincidence that our top player want out every single year.

tbf, after I wrote that, was thinking that Henry did do his time, and gave his all to the club. I suppose I just get a tad annoyed that man u doing all the deals early, yet we are fannying around again. Trouble is its all a bit of a mess. Over paid crap players we cant get rid of (denilson, bendy, almunia) players that are being continually tapped up by thier home club (cesc) good players with only 1 year left on contracts (nasri) Players that are injured all the time who nobody wants (rosicy and maybe diaby) So much to try and sort out and come together. Not sure it can be done.

[Letters]

I don't hide the fact I blame Wenger (and the board) for where we are now.

In a new stadium, top 4 and financially stable? I 'blame' them for that too.

I am frustrated by some of the things which go on at Arsenal, the end of last season was embarrassing. But the way some of you go on. Sheesh! You should try supporting a 'proper' club with all the ups and downs.

As for Wenger bringing in cheap nobodies, Fabregas was one of them...

[Özim]

In a new stadium, top 4 and financially stable? I 'blame' them for that too.

I am frustrated by some of the things which go on at Arsenal, the end of last season was embarrassing. But the way some of you go on. Sheesh! You should try supporting a 'proper' club with all the ups and downs.

As for Wenger bringing in cheap nobodies, Fabregas was one of them...
Couldn't give a toss about top 4 to be honest, CL is a farce and we have no chance of winning it....wouldn't miss it if we didnt' qualify.

Would take the league cup over top 4 personally.

To be honest, supporting a lesser club is probably more rewarding as you have hope, which you don't with Wenger in charge...plus your targets are very different as are prices, most of the players probably play with more desire too etc etc

Yes and Silvestre and Squillaci etc etc...a lot more fails than successes in the last 6 years.

[LDG]

LDG I'd be very careful about what you wish for. I accept that Cesc has to leave but it's by no means a blessing IMHO.

Arsene seems incapable of building "balanced" teams anymore, in fact I wouldn't put it past him to sit on the Cesc money, he's done it before when we recouped 40mill for Kolo & Ade & he refused to buy then.

I know Cesc leaving could mean a change in style, but change isn't always a good thing.

This team needs quality with Cesc still here, without him Arsene has a lot of work to do and he has to spend to make it work IMHO.

Well quite.

He does need to spend. That is very evident. Moreso if he sells Fabregas.

Look, I blame Wenger for a lot of things that are currently wrong with the team. Need I go through them again?? I blame him for the footballing matters, because he is the manager.

The team we had last year SHOULD have won the league. Therefore I blame Wenger for not sorting the issues he himself aluded to in both transfer windows last year, but mostly for being ignorant to obvious mistakes on the pitch, and lack of leadership.

Fabregas is not, and never will be a good captain. But there are reasons why we made him captain (some good, some bad). There comes a time, for player and club, where a change is necessary. But I have no doubt, that if we are selling him, there is good in it for us too.

We as a club will not, and will never bow down to other teams. Henry left because it was time, as did vieira. And we sold because it was the right time for the club too. If Cesc is going, it's because we're letting him go, and there will be a replacement, and that replacement is where Wenger can work his magic. But that also very much depends on whether he's going to push the boat out fully this time, or paddle it out a little bit and stay out of the current.

I'm not foolish enough to believe there isn't problems with the club, the team and the manager right now. But from where I was sitting last year, there wasn't this massive gulf in class between us and Utd, and I believe we held our own against Barca. It was all to do with fragility of mind, and organisation when it mattered.

I agree we lacked a few extra pieces of playerware in the sideboard, but it doesn't alter the fact that we weren't THAT far away.

Cesc or no cesc. The manager HAS to buy quality. He has to instill leadership, organisation and respect within the team. And as I've said before, I will disown the cunt if he doesn't do it this summer, as I think will every Arsenal fan. But until then, I'll back him, because I still believe he is a good manager, and I'm hoping (as all good football fans do, hope in a new season) with his back to the wall, he'll do the necessary.

[Letters]

To be honest, supporting a lesser club is probably more rewarding as you have hope, which you don't with Wenger in charge....

Don't let the door hit you on the arse on your way out then.
You'll be missed.

[Letters]

Well quite.

He does need to spend. That is very evident. Moreso if he sells Fabregas.

Look, I blame Wenger for a lot of things that are currently wrong with the team. Need I go through them again?? I blame him for the footballing matters, because he is the manager.

The team we had last year SHOULD have won the league. Therefore I blame Wenger for not sorting the issues he himself aluded to in both transfer windows last year, but mostly for being ignorant to obvious mistakes on the pitch, and lack of leadership.

Fabregas is not, and never will be a good captain. But there are reasons why we made him captain (some good, some bad). There comes a time, for player and club, where a change is necessary. But I have no doubt, that if we are selling him, there is good in it for us too.

We as a club will not, and will never bow down to other teams. Henry left because it was time, as did vieira. And we sold because it was the right time for the club too. If Cesc is going, it's because we're letting him go, and there will be a replacement, and that replacement is where Wenger can work his magic. But that also very much depends on whether he's going to push the boat out fully this time, or paddle it out a little bit and stay out of the current.

I'm not foolish enough to believe there isn't problems with the club, the team and the manager right now. But from where I was sitting last year, there wasn't this massive gulf in class between us and Utd, and I believe we held our own against Barca. It was all to do with fragility of mind, and organisation when it mattered.

I agree we lacked a few extra pieces of playerware in the sideboard, but it doesn't alter the fact that we weren't THAT far away.

Cesc or no cesc. The manager HAS to buy quality. He has to instill leadership, organisation and respect within the team. And as I've said before, I will disown the cunt if he doesn't do it this summer, as I think will every Arsenal fan. But until then, I'll back him, because I still believe he is a good manager, and I'm hoping (as all good football fans do, hope in a new season) with his back to the wall, he'll do the necessary.

:gp:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yeah come on, every year it's the same....Wenger brings in cheap nobodies, doesn't sort problem areas and we completely collapse (it was even worse this year). He has been here 8 years and to be honest after seeing the same thing happen over and over again with no real hope of change are you surprised he's attracted by a move to Barca, his home club and one that is winning things left right and center?

Wenger and his stupid policies have really not helped us keep players here, why would they want to stay and play for a manager who is happy with 4th place and puts together a team who collapse every year (sure he's part of that, but let's face it he's scored and created plenty and done his job better than most or Barca wouldn't want him). He's a top player and want to wins trophies, it's not gonna happen here with Wenger in charge.

I don't hold it against him personally, I can see why he would move...hell a lot of us fans want Wenger out after all as we know the score.

Do I blame him for wanting to leave?

No.

Do I feel sorry for him or think he's been hard done by these last few years?

Not a fucking chance.

[Özim]

You'll be missed.
Yes unlike Wenger

[Özim]

Do I blame him for wanting to leave?

No.

Do I feel sorry for him or think he's been hard done by these last few years?

Not a fucking chance.
Yeah that's fair enough, I don't feel sorry for him either.

[Letters]

Yes unlike Wenger

That's an interesting point. It depends what happens after he goes but I think you're wrong and you will look back and realise how good he was.
But that remains to be seen of course.

[LDG]

Niether Cesc, nor Barca have us over a barrel.

We hold all the cards.

He is contracted until 2015.

If we sell him, it's because we're willing to let him go.

And by the way; Regardless of what you think of Cesc, he is professional enough to turn up and play for the team next year and give 100%. He has never been lazy, and should he stay, I fully expect he will put in a shift. This is what I mean by professionalism.

I say again, if he goes, it's because Arsenal are willing to let him go. We do not HAVE to sell him.

[Özim]

That's an interesting point. It depends what happens after he goes but I think you're wrong and you will look back and realise how good he was.
But that remains to be seen of course.
No chance, the last 6 years has tainted what he's achieved before forever.

I can't believe a manager who was supposedly so great has gone from that to this to be honest, I actually can't stand pretty much everything he does and says these days........ and that's totally his fault, he needn't have been this stubborn or fixated on a ridiculous set of ideals. He's made himself look quite foolish in recent years, both with his comments and his behaviour IMO.

For me personally it will be a relief when he leaves, I might be able to look forward to seeing our matches again, as well as look forward to transfer windows. Got to admit, right now not missing football at all and not too bothered about the new season, that I have Wenger to thank for.

[Darth Vela]

I have to say the comment 'when a player is on the market it is because the club doesn't want them' is a pretty big thing to say compared to a lot of the crap being printed about this and indicates one of two things, either he's been being a cunt all along and with that comment his mask slipped a little or we really do want to get rid and start a new chapter clean. I'd rather it was the latter and the former doesn't really seem like Cesc's style but what does it matter if he's out of the door?

[alexander]

No chance, the last 6 years has tainted what he's achieved before forever.

This is what I think too. Wenger could do no wrong in my eyes, but these last few years, he has tainted his good work. The things he says in press conferences now seem to make him a laughing stock, where before he owned the room.

[Özim]

This is what I think too. Wenger could do no wrong in my eyes, but these last few years, he has tainted his good work. The things he says in press conferences now seem to make him a laughing stock, where before he owned the room.
If I'm honest, I'd respect him a lot more if he just came out and admitted it hasn't worked (which after 6 years would be fine IMO). He could then moe forward and start to rebuild, problem, is he'll never admit that and still thinks it's working great and the attitude of the players is spot on.

[Kano]

I actually can't stand pretty much everything he does and says these days........ and that's totally his fault,


what a load of bollocks. you decide what you think no one else. no one makes you listen

[Özim]

what a load of bollocks. you decide what you think no one else. no one makes you listen
Not my fault he talks sh*t all the time or indeed sticks with flawed principles.

[LDG]

I have to say the comment 'when a player is on the market it is because the club doesn't want them' is a pretty big thing to say compared to a lot of the crap being printed about this and indicates one of two things, either he's been being a cunt all along and with that comment his mask slipped a little or we really do want to get rid and start a new chapter clean. I'd rather it was the latter and the former doesn't really seem like Cesc's style but what does it matter if he's out of the door?

I think a little of that is lost in translation.

The "It's because the club doesn't want me" bit, can be interpreted that, we are willing to let him go. And I would hope, because we're confident of filling the void in one way, shape, or form.

My money is on Nasri taking over in the middle...and I like the idea of that, because he's quicker, more direct, more selfish and better going forward with the ball at his feet.

He may not have Cecs talent in spotting a pass, or dictating the pace of the game (which needs to be faster anyway), but he'll give a new dimension if he makes that foward midfield berth his own.

[Kano]

does he still make you listen

[Grebbo]

If we sell Cesc for less than £40m we've been raped and our club is a fucking joke. The whole point of him signing a long, and VERY lucrative contract, is so we can get market rate for him.

Tell Barca to fuck right off.

Why is our club being run so badly??!!

[LDG]

If I'm honest, I'd respect him a lot more if he just came out and admitted it hasn't worked (which after 6 years would be fine IMO). He could then moe forward and start to rebuild, problem, is he'll never admit that and still thinks it's working great and the attitude of the players is spot on.

Sod off. He came out and said that he takes the blame fully for last season. What more do you expect?

[alexander]

My money is on Nasri taking over in the middle...and I like the idea of that, because he's quicker, more direct, more selfish and better going forward with the ball at his feet.

He may not have Cecs talent in spotting a pass, or dictating the pace of the game (which needs to be faster anyway), but he'll give a new dimension if he makes that foward midfield berth his own.

agree totally.

[selassie]

Well quite.

He does need to spend. That is very evident. Moreso if he sells Fabregas.

Look, I blame Wenger for a lot of things that are currently wrong with the team. Need I go through them again?? I blame him for the footballing matters, because he is the manager.

The team we had last year SHOULD have won the league. Therefore I blame Wenger for not sorting the issues he himself aluded to in both transfer windows last year, but mostly for being ignorant to obvious mistakes on the pitch, and lack of leadership.

Fabregas is not, and never will be a good captain. But there are reasons why we made him captain (some good, some bad). There comes a time, for player and club, where a change is necessary. But I have no doubt, that if we are selling him, there is good in it for us too.

We as a club will not, and will never bow down to other teams. Henry left because it was time, as did vieira. And we sold because it was the right time for the club too. If Cesc is going, it's because we're letting him go, and there will be a replacement, and that replacement is where Wenger can work his magic. But that also very much depends on whether he's going to push the boat out fully this time, or paddle it out a little bit and stay out of the current.

I'm not foolish enough to believe there isn't problems with the club, the team and the manager right now. But from where I was sitting last year, there wasn't this massive gulf in class between us and Utd, and I believe we held our own against Barca. It was all to do with fragility of mind, and organisation when it mattered.

I agree we lacked a few extra pieces of playerware in the sideboard, but it doesn't alter the fact that we weren't THAT far away.

Cesc or no cesc. The manager HAS to buy quality. He has to instill leadership, organisation and respect within the team. And as I've said before, I will disown the cunt if he doesn't do it this summer, as I think will every Arsenal fan. But until then, I'll back him, because I still believe he is a good manager, and I'm hoping (as all good football fans do, hope in a new season) with his back to the wall, he'll do the necessary.

:good:

I hear ya, I do think we're pretty much in the same place in regards to our thoughts on the team and it's management etc.

I just think we differ slightly when it comes to Arsene, I don't trust him where as it seems you do. :d

[Letters]

No chance, the last 6 years has tainted what he's achieved before forever.

I can't believe a manager who was supposedly so great has gone from that to this to be honest, I actually can't stand pretty much everything he does and says these days........ and that's totally his fault, he needn't have been this stubborn or fixated on a ridiculous set of ideals. He's made himself look quite foolish in recent years, both with his comments and his behaviour IMO.

For me personally it will be a relief when he leaves, I might be able to look forward to seeing our matches again, as well as look forward to transfer windows. Got to admit, right now not missing football at all and not too bothered about the new season, that I have Wenger to thank for.

No, after a brief honeymoon period you'll just find a load of new things to moan about whilst refusing to concede that things were better under Wenger.

[Darth Vela]

I think a little of that is lost in translation.

The "It's because the club doesn't want me" bit, can be interpreted that, we are willing to let him go. And I would hope, because we're confident of filling the void in one way, shape, or form.

My money is on Nasri taking over in the middle...and I like the idea of that, because he's quicker, more direct, more selfish and better going forward with the ball at his feet.

He may not have Cecs talent in spotting a pass, or dictating the pace of the game (which needs to be faster anyway), but he'll give a new dimension if he makes that foward midfield berth his own.

I guess it could just be that we aren't falling over ourselves to keep him rather than actively wanting rid of him.

You may well be right about it working out nicely switching Nasri there, allowing our midfielders (the proper ones) to do more of the dictation and giving him a free reign in the middle but I'm just not convinced for some reason, maybe I'm just feeling a bit conservative about changing the team round a bit too much, they failed though so nothing much to lose, really.

[Darth Vela]

Sod off. He came out and said that he takes the blame fully for last season. What more do you expect?

No, no, no, that can't have happened. Wenger is a moaning hypocrite who never takes responsibility for failure and refuses to change anything, ever.

The Internet told me, so it must be true.

[LDG]

:good:

I hear ya, I do think we're pretty much in the same place in regards to our thoughts on the team and it's management etc.

I just think we differ slightly when it comes to Arsene, I don't trust him where as it seems you do. :d

Hmmm. Trust him...I dunno. I believe he is a top manager who could still win us things, yes. Trust him to do what is right at this point in time. I'm on the fence.

To say, as some are, that we buy nobodies is a load of old shite. When you look at last years team, there are plenty of players that most clubs would give there right testicle for. That's evident with Nasri and Cesc right now...but do you not think SAF would cream himself if we offered him Sagna, Wilshere, Ramsey, Walcott, RVP etc??? They are fucking good players, all of which Wenger has bought, and for not very much money really.

Those who think Wenger is deluded are cleary very blind.

BUT, he has failed to address relatively simple problems on the pitch. And it is these which make me doubt him. I've ratteled them off on this board so many times (defence, organisation, leadership, respect for the opposition *sigh*) that I don't know how much more clear I can be.

He is responsible for this. He has admitted blame for this.

What I want to see is those mistake rectified. He is more than capable as a manager of sorting those, but for me, he needs to start focusing more on the team. The business will take care of itself...moreso if he builds a winning team again.

If he continues to fanny around with the business side of things, and not pay heed to the problem areas on the pitch, he is not right for the club anymore, because that is what he is employed to do. He has done massive things for the club, MASSIVE. Anyone who can't see that is a fool.

But, Arsene, it's time to get back to basics of managing a football team now. Let "the Company" take care of itself please.

[Letters]

Hmmm. Trust him...I dunno. I believe he is a top manager who could still win us things, yes. Trust him to do what is right at this point in time. I'm on the fence.

To say, as some are, that we buy nobodies is a load of old shite. When you look at last years team, there are plenty of players that most clubs would give there right testicle for. That's evident with Nasri and Cesc right now...but do you not think SAF would cream himself if we offered him Sagna, Wilshere, Ramsey, Walcott, RVP etc??? They are fucking good players, all of which Wenger has bought, and for not very much money really.

Those who think Wenger is deluded are cleary very blind.

BUT, he has failed to address relatively simple problems on the pitch. And it is these which make me doubt him. I've ratteled them off on this board so many times (defence, organisation, leadership, respect for the opposition *sigh*) that I don't know how much more clear I can be.

He is responsible for this. He has admitted blame for this.

What I want to see is those mistake rectified. He is more than capable as a manager of sorting those, but for me, he needs to start focusing more on the team. The business will take care of itself...moreso if he builds a winning team again.

If he continues to fanny around with the business side of things, and not pay heed to the problem areas on the pitch, he is not right for the club anymore, because that is what he is employed to do. He has done massive things for the club, MASSIVE. Anyone who can't see that is a fool.

But, Arsene, it's time to get back to basics of managing a football team now. Let "the Company" take care of itself please.

Great post. This isn't the time for rose tinted glasses but some of the nonsense about Wenger as if he's suddently this bumbling idiot is bollox.
He's kept us top 4 amid the most complex stadium move any club has undertaken.
But he has failed to deliver trophies despite having a squad which is good enough to.
Can he turn it around? I'm not sure. But it's bollox to think if we sack him then any idiot could do better.

[Cripps_orig]

Anyone thinking Fabregas is acting honorably in all this is clearly deluding themselves.

I don't give a damn about value anymore, either let him rot at the Club or just get rid of the shit - either way suits me now.

But gotta say, one thing that sickens me more than any of the douchebaggery by and sanctioned by Cesc is the fucking apologists here that somehow reckon we owe some twat that we've paid £110k per week.

Do.

We.

Fuck.
The words spot fucking on come to mind when reading that post.

[Özim]

Sod off. He came out and said that he takes the blame fully for last season. What more do you expect?
Yes then said the attitude is spot on etc etc.

He takes the blame, so what....he still not saying that he should be saying. We all know he is to blame, I want to hear him say it's not working and that changes are needed.

The guy still maintains he's doing things the right way, 6 years suggests he isn't.

[Özim]

No, after a brief honeymoon period you'll just find a load of new things to moan about whilst refusing to concede that things were better under Wenger.
Not if we have a progressive manager clearly willing to change things.

Wenger won't, that's why we should get rid. Like I said before Wenger kills off any hope we have, sure we get 4th place, but so so what...noone other than the money men gives a sh*t about that.

[Cripps_orig]

Having now read the last couple of pages, I see a couple of people thinking Cesc is a cunt which is true btw and some people blaming Wenger which is also true.

Simple solution? Get rid of both the cunts and let's have a manager and captain that will give us our Arsenal back

[Özim]

Having now read the last couple of pages, I see a couple of people thinking Cesc is a cunt which is true btw and some people blaming Wenger which is also true.

Simple solution? Get rid of both the cunts and let's have a manager and captain that will give us our Arsenal back
Sounds good to me.

[Kano]

i love this new tag line of 'give us our arsenal back' tripe

it went years ago - we wanna get bigger? then fuck the fans

[Joker]

I agree that Cesc's part in this debacle is not innocent at all IMO. Moreover, we shouldn't think that the club owes Cesc anything. The club is bigger than any one player, and that will always remain true. Some supporters (not on this board) said in the past that players like Denilson and Diaby were holding Cesc back, and that they felt sorry for Cesc, having to play in a midfield full of substandard junk like the aforementioned players. I agree that some of our midfielders are shocking players, but Cesc himself had an awful season last year, and he must take responsibility for his own performances. Being captain, the responsibility was on him to lead by example, especially at the end of the season when we were struggling. However, in the important matches at the tail end of the season, he performed dreadfully, and I have to say played like a coward rather than a leader.

Cesc has been a very good player for us, but let's not act as if Arsenal has held him back. He has contributed to our failings over the last few seasons, and we musn't forget it. This applies especially for the last three seasons, from 2008-2011.

[Marc Overmars]

Has he gone yet?

[Joker]

i love this new tag line of 'give us our arsenal back' tripe

it went years ago - we wanna get bigger? then fuck the fans

We can only get our Arsenal back if the wankers on the board fuck off out of the club, replaced by people who have at least a small amount of interest in the football side of things, rather than simply seeing the value of their shares increase.

The same goes for our free market fundamentalist manager, who cares more about the "financial bottom line" than success on the pitch.

[Kano]

get it back, are you serious? the direction is to be a super club, not one that gives a shit about the fans. sure if you want the perception that they care then fair enough but its naive to think they really ever would at that sort of level.

pining for the 'good old days' is nothing but sad sentimentalism of a time when we were a completely different club, in a different stadium

[Cripps_orig]

Has he gone yet?

Press conference at 7pm

[Cripps_orig]

i love this new tag line of 'give us our arsenal back' tripe

it went years ago - we wanna get bigger? then fuck the fans

They already are. Doesn't seem to be making the club bigger though

[Joker]

get it back, are you serious? the direction is to be a super club, not one that gives a shit about the fans. sure if you want the perception that they care then fair enough but its naive to think they really ever would at that sort of level.

pining for the 'good old days' is nothing but sad sentimentalism of a time when we were a completely different club, in a different stadium

Makes you wonder what the point of all this is anymore tbh. I doubt many supporters find the thought of supporting a brand or company particularly appealing. Most are supporters of Arsenal FC, the football club, not some faceless corporation which is what this club is being turned into. Even Wenger keeps talking about "self sustaining business", as if it'll reduce our brand value if he mentions that we're actually a football team, leading to an erosion in the value of the club shares.

[LDG]

Yes then said the attitude is spot on etc etc.

He takes the blame, so what....he still not saying that he should be saying. We all know he is to blame, I want to hear him say it's not working and that changes are needed.

The guy still maintains he's doing things the right way, 6 years suggests he isn't.

Well, we're clearly not going to see eye to eye over what he should or should not be saying.

For me it's down to what happens on the pitch, not what he says in press conferences, where every single word can be spun to suit which ever hack, internet warrior, WUM or misguided idiot wants to opinionate on.

It's clear to me that things on the pitch are not right. By all means lay the blame at Wenger's door for that. The reasons behind the way he has managed the team these past few years, we will never really know. And I speak in terms of the operation of the club as opposed to purely football matters.

I have no doubt that the people who run the club know full well what they're doing.

But there have been mistakes made on the pitch, and he is accountable for that above all else. I have said before that I think he should go, because I'm not sure I trust him to make the necessary changes pitchside, and stop meddling in something which I believe is now solid (i.e our financial position).

You're taking everything at face value and not paying the slightest attention to what the reasons are for the way we have operated. I'm not saying I know any more than you, but I'll tell you one thing, their are not stupid idiots running our club, there are people who have facilitated a move to a massive new stadium, and put things in place for the long term future of the club, whilst still remaining "relatively" competetive.

There isn't much that needs fixing. It is basic football shit which needs addressing, and this is what you're pissed off at. It's what I'm pissed off at, and it's what every Arsenal fan wants to see fixed.

Can wenger fix it? Of course. He's one of the best managers in the world. Will he? I don't know. All I know is, his job and any harmonious relationship with the clubs fans is in jeapordy. So he HAS to fix it, and now.

[selassie]

Hmmm. Trust him...I dunno. I believe he is a top manager who could still win us things, yes. Trust him to do what is right at this point in time. I'm on the fence.

To say, as some are, that we buy nobodies is a load of old shite. When you look at last years team, there are plenty of players that most clubs would give there right testicle for. That's evident with Nasri and Cesc right now...but do you not think SAF would cream himself if we offered him Sagna, Wilshere, Ramsey, Walcott, RVP etc??? They are fucking good players, all of which Wenger has bought, and for not very much money really.

Those who think Wenger is deluded are cleary very blind.

BUT, he has failed to address relatively simple problems on the pitch. And it is these which make me doubt him. I've ratteled them off on this board so many times (defence, organisation, leadership, respect for the opposition *sigh*) that I don't know how much more clear I can be.

He is responsible for this. He has admitted blame for this.

What I want to see is those mistake rectified. He is more than capable as a manager of sorting those, but for me, he needs to start focusing more on the team. The business will take care of itself...moreso if he builds a winning team again.

If he continues to fanny around with the business side of things, and not pay heed to the problem areas on the pitch, he is not right for the club anymore, because that is what he is employed to do. He has done massive things for the club, MASSIVE. Anyone who can't see that is a fool.

But, Arsene, it's time to get back to basics of managing a football team now. Let "the Company" take care of itself please.

Well where I differ from your opinion is that I don't believe Arsene has it in him to make the necessary changes to personnel or tactics. I also don't believe we'll win another trophy with him in charge. I've felt this way for about 3 seasons now and nothing he's said or done this summer so far makes me believe he will change.

I agree that we have a good core of players but Arsene has neglected/mismanaged a few aspects of the team and it's make up for a while now, I really don't understand why he either can't fix them or get somebody to help him fix them? These problems we talk about haven't just surfaced, they have been present for a good while.

Arsene can't even build balanced teams anymore, what's the point in having a team full of highly technical players if the team lacks character & heart?

I don't think Arsene is deluded...I jus think he's so caught up in doing things the "his way" or as he likes to tell us "the right way" that he can't see the wood through the trees.

The funny thing is we all have these discussions every single summer about Arsene. It's the usual, "give him 1 more season", "wait till the end of summer", "he'll change we'll buy", "nobody could do a better job than him", "he has no money to spend".

Nothing ever changes though and I very much doubt it will until he leaves.

[Kano]

Makes you wonder what the point of all this is anymore tbh. I doubt many supporters find the thought of supporting a brand or company particularly appealing. Most are supporters of Arsenal FC, the football club, not some faceless corporation which is what this club is being turned into. Even Wenger keeps talking about "self sustaining business", as if it'll reduce our brand value if he mentions that we're actually a football team, leading to an erosion in the value of the club shares.

you just need to separate and the two. i've had a season ticket for 20 years now and enjoy going to match day as much as i ever did. its my choice to spend the money to go, i still get huge enjoyment. whatever the board do is their choice. the off field politics are what they are, ive got far more important things to worry about and the return on my investment into attendance still satisfies me.

every club that wants to increase their size suffers a huge disconnect with the fans over time, its part and parcel.

[Toronto Gooner]

Anyone thinking Fabregas is acting honorably in all this is clearly deluding themselves.

I don't give a damn about value anymore, either let him rot at the Club or just get rid of the shit - either way suits me now.

But gotta say, one thing that sickens me more than any of the douchebaggery by and sanctioned by Cesc is the fucking apologists here that somehow reckon we owe some twat that we've paid £110k per week.

Do.

We.

Fuck.
Drink influenced or not, this is absolutely spot on.

[Marc Overmars]

Drunk Gary. :bow:

[Coney]

you just need to separate and the two. i've had a season ticket for 20 years now and enjoy going to match day as much as i ever did. its my choice to spend the money to go, i still get huge enjoyment. whatever the board do is their choice. the off field politics are what they are, ive got far more important things to worry about and the return on my investment into attendance still satisfies me.

every club that wants to increase their size suffers a huge disconnect with the fans over time, its part and parcel.

Dead right. I sometimes hark back to the fondly remembered times standing on the terraces or under the clock at Highbury, with a 'local feel' to the team and a good earthy game of football. That is long gone and the only way that feeling can return would be to watch a small team. Where I live, I have been tempted to go and watch my local 'Forest Green Rovers' to see if that feel is there. However, even though things have changed, the Arsenal is still the Arsenal to me and while I might be able to give some support to a local side, it will never replace the Arsenal as the team I hold as special.

I get what you say about separating things. What seems to happen at the club sometimes drives me up the wall, but when I've been to the Emirates and take my seat, the only thing that matters is that match and hoping will do the job on the day.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Anyone thinking Fabregas is acting honorably in all this is clearly deluding themselves.

I don't give a damn about value anymore, either let him rot at the Club or just get rid of the shit - either way suits me now.

But gotta say, one thing that sickens me more than any of the douchebaggery by and sanctioned by Cesc is the fucking apologists here that somehow reckon we owe some twat that we've paid £110k per week.

Do.

We.

Fuck.

Best fecking post in this Thread.

End of the day Sell him, don't , throw him in the Dustbin don't give a shit what happens with him anymore.

Lets hope we can do whats best for the club and move on.

[LDG]

Dead right. I sometimes hark back to the fondly remembered times standing on the terraces or under the clock at Highbury, with a 'local feel' to the team and a good earthy game of football. That is long gone and the only way that feeling can return would be to watch a small team. Where I live, I have been tempted to go and watch my local 'Forest Green Rovers' to see if that feel is there. However, even though things have changed, the Arsenal is still the Arsenal to me and while I might be able to give some support to a local side, it will never replace the Arsenal as the team I hold as special.

I get what you say about separating things. What seems to happen at the club sometimes drives me up the wall, but when I've been to the Emirates and take my seat, the only thing that matters is that match and hoping will do the job on the day.

"I much prefered 1932-33 season" :cloud9:

[dazthegooner]

"I much prefered 1932-33 season" :cloud9:


Those where the days :(

[Joker]

Best fecking post in this Thread.

End of the day Sell him, don't , throw him in the Dustbin don't give a shit what happens with him anymore.

Lets hope we can do whats best for the club and move on.

Exactly, the club's bigger than the player. Hopefully Cesc fucks off and we can PROPER replacements in, especially players who can adapt their game to different conditions, something Cesc struggled to do.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Sod off. He came out and said that he takes the blame fully for last season. What more do you expect?

I think Zimm whats AW to prove what he means by doing what needs to be done, not just doing the ususal talk.

[Coney]

Those where the days :(

:good: Beer at a penny a pint.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Exactly, the club's bigger than the player. Hopefully Cesc fucks off and we can PROPER replacements in, especially players who can adapt their game to different conditions, something Cesc struggled to do.

Its turning the club into a bit of a circus id rahter we moved on from the whole thing. Hopefully With cesc going, it will make Nasri feel like the man he will make the cesc posistion his own.

[Letters]

I think Zimm whats AW to prove what he means by doing what needs to be done, not just doing the ususal talk.

Which is reasonable and it's what we all want.
But you can't moan when Wenger spouts bollox (and there's no denying he does) and then moan again when he says he takes responsibility for our failings.

[Darth Vela]

I think Zimm whats AW to prove what he means by doing what needs to be done, not just doing the ususal talk.

I'm pretty sure Wenger didn't admit to failure after the previous few season, he's said that changes need to be made and he's going to make them, anyone with half a brain can see the journey Wenger (and his poor, poor water bottles) went through at the end of the season, that's a far cry from 'I feel we were unlucky at the end of the season and injuries fucked us' blah blah blah we got the last few summers.

[Kano]

nah, spot on from arseblog


The game that footballers all down the years have played. Check out this quote from the summer of 2001:

I had a meeting with Arsene Wenger and the club’s vice-chairman David Dein two days before I went on holiday to America. I told them I was not going to renew my contract for a third time, that I wanted to leave and that is was nothing to do with money because that was not an issue to me.

This is not about Arsenal, but about my personal ambitions as a player. I feel, and people should respect this. I expect Arsenal to stand by a verbal agreement they have with me and I expect this to be sorted out before I return from my holiday.

That was Patrick Vieira, if you hadn’t already guessed. This was when his agent, with the player’s full knowledge, tried to engineer a move to Manchester United. Imagine if Twitter had been around then. It would have been much easier for people to call him a ‘traitorous cunt’, at the very least. The first line of that article, by the way? ‘PATRICK Vieira intends to go on strike unless Arsenal agree to sell him’. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?

Forward we go to January 2002 and a story in the Sunday Mirror:

PATRICK VIEIRA will activate a gentlemen’s agreement with Arsenal this summer to complete a pounds 40million transfer to Real Madrid. Vieira, who has been at the centre of growing speculation about a move to the continent, is understood to have agreed last summer to remain at Arsenal for one more season following a row over his future

Agreement to stay for just one more summer after his future was in doubt previously? Where have I heard that before? And on it went. Almost every summer from 2001 onwards there were stories and rumours and whispers about Vieira’s future until the emergence of a young Catalan boy made Arsenal decide the time was right to cash in. The story goes that when David Dein told Vieira at the training ground that we’d agreed to sell him to Juventus, Patrick was in tears. Yet that’s football, it’s a business, the clubs will hold onto players as long as they feel they have value and once that starts to dwindle off they go.

In the summer of 2001, after Vieira had publicly questioned the ambition of the club (at that point Arsenal had gone three seasons without the title, and lost the FA Cup final to the Mugsmashers), he stayed and Robert Pires said:

It was vital Patrick stayed because, by keeping one of the main leaders of the team, Arsenal are demonstrating they want to progress. That was an important message to make. If you let a player of Patrick’s stature leave, your whole credibility is shot to pieces. That’s why keeping him here was so important. For me and the others, it shows Arsenal are serious about wanting to be one of the best clubs in the world.

Wouldn’t it be easy now to replace ‘Patrick’ with ‘Cesc’? Doesn’t the same sentiment Bobby is expressing apply to Arsenal today and, after six seasons without a trophy, isn’t it more crucial than ever that they club do as much as they possibly can to show they’re serious about wanting to be one of the best clubs in the world?

Does selling your captain and essentially buckling to a relentless campaign from Barcelona do that? Does accepting a bid of £35-£40m (if we do) really demonstrate anything other than the fact Arsenal are a selling club, a stepping stone to truly big clubs? Why would that be an acceptable amount for a player of Cesc’s calibre? How can selling our best player, and one of the best players in the world, be anything other than a step backwards?

Forget the people who say we need a clean slate and that selling him would be good for all concerned. It’s nonsense. It would be bad for Arsenal, on the pitch and off it. The reality of having one of the best players in the world is that the other big clubs around Europe will want him. We’ve had it with Vieira, with Henry, even with Bergkamp who was strongly linked with Barcelona in the summer of 99 or 2000, if I remember correctly. What would it have said about us back then if we’d sold Dennis?

Cesc has a contract till 2015. Either Barcelona come back with an offer than we simply cannot refuse (we all know every player has his price) and we reinvest that money in an established, world class talent, or we tell them to fuck off, draw a line under this, and get the fuck on with our work this summer. The other side of this, of course, is investing properly in the squad. I fully understand people who are frustrated that we haven’t brought in any new players yet. If we’re serious about improving we need to a) keep our best players (tough and all as it might be) and b) bring in players who will improve the team.

[Coney]

I'm pretty sure Wenger didn't admit to failure after the previous few season, he's said that changes need to be made and he's going to make them, anyone with half a brain can see the journey Wenger (and his poor, poor water bottles) went through at the end of the season, that's a far cry from 'I feel we were unlucky at the end of the season and injuries fucked us' blah blah blah we got the last few summers.

Yeah - his body language made it clear he was hurting. I think he knows the experiment - which would have been fantastic had it worked - has failed and that he needs to change the approach. As the collapse began again this season, he was clearly dismayed that it had still not worked. With that and Kroenke coming on board, I think the direction is going to change but we will know for sure very soon now.

[Darth Vela]

And we won't really know if it's worked until March 2012, annoying.

[LDG]

And we won't really know if it's worked until March 2012, annoying.

February ;)

[Letters]

Yeah - his body language made it clear he was hurting. I think he knows the experiment - which would have been fantastic had it worked - has failed and that he needs to change the approach. As the collapse began again this season, he was clearly dismayed that it had still not worked. With that and Kroenke coming on board, I think the direction is going to change but we will know for sure very soon now.

What's frustrating is it's so nearly worked. He's built a great squad doing things the 'right way', a squad which IMO is good enough to win the league. Simple things like a lack of organisation at the back, a mental weakness and a lack of a good captain have cost us but player for player we're as good as anyone IMO.

But there was a difference in this collapse. It was worse than others and Wenger looked far more pissed off by it all. I'm hoping he channels that into action this summer.

End of the day he's our manager, we might as well get behind him. If he does nothing this summer and we see the same weaknesses AGAIN then the crowd will seriously turn against him next season as they started to at the tail end of the previous one.

[Darth Vela]

February ;)

Well, I guess if we win every game we might wrap the title up that early. :d

[LDG]

well, i guess if we win every game we might wrap the title up that early. :d

it's on!!!

[Ollie the Optimist]

Sounds good to me.

if wenger was to go now, we'd be fucked for next season, wouldnt win a thing, wouldnt qualify for europa league imo. it would throw us into chaos but then thats great for you cos you can moan that board didnt make the right choice

[Cripps_orig]

if wenger was to go now, we'd be fucked for next season, wouldnt win a thing, wouldnt qualify for europa league imo. it would throw us into chaos but then thats great for you cos you can moan that board didnt make the right choice
It might do all that.

Or it might make us better, take us to the title and the CL and the 2 mickey mouse cups making us the first team ever to win the quadruple.

I can be just as ridiculous you see

[Ollie the Optimist]

It might do all that.

Or it might make us better, take us to the title and the CL and the 2 mickey mouse cups making us the first team ever to win the quadruple.

I can be just as ridiculous you see


answer me this, a lot of players are here because of wenger. if he goes, nasri will be off, cesc will be off and i think others would be too. pre season starts next week, we wouldnt have a new manager in in time, i reckon it would take about 3-4 weeks to get one in. almost start of season. giving not much time in transfer market and deals taht are supposedly being done now, (cahill samba etc) would be compromised without a manager or wenger.

[Cripps_orig]

answer me this, a lot of players are here because of wenger. if he goes, nasri will be off, cesc will be off and i think others would be too. pre season starts next week, we wouldnt have a new manager in in time, i reckon it would take about 3-4 weeks to get one in. almost start of season. giving not much time in transfer market and deals taht are supposedly being done now, (cahill samba etc) would be compromised without a manager or wenger.

I dont see a question :unsure:

[Joker]

The fact that a lot of the players have a primary loyalty to Wenger shouldn't discount us sacking him. Anyway, these same players have contributed to our stagnation over the last 6 years, so why should we overtly worry about them leaving? Moreover, just because there is a risk that we'll drop out of the top 4 if Wenger leaves shouldn't be a reason not to sack him. That sort of conservativism will see us continue to stagnate as a club, managed by a man who is short of ideas, content to follow the same failed philosophies over and over again, hoping it'll eventually work out, even though other teams have figured us out completely.

If there is some short term pain with Wenger' departure, I say it's worth it IF it allows us to rebuild, develop a new footballing identity, get players who are commited to the club and have a strong mentality to succeed, and therefore allow us the opportunity to break out of this cycle of stagnation that we're currently stuck in.

We cannot achieve that if we follow Wenger on his destructive course, where he's continuing to perservere with his failed dogma, because like all ideologues, he cannot accept that his way of thinking has proven to be mistaken.

[Cripps_orig]

When you consider Nasri and Cesc already want to leave whilst Wenger is in charge, what difference does it make if they leave if Wenger goes?

If anything, a new manager might come in and tell these 2 that he will spend to get some quality players in, something which Wenger cant do to save his life.

Cesc is gone. We all know that. Hes a cunt and Barca are a team of cunts so hes going back to be with fellow cunts. I think nasri however can be persuaded to stay but not by Wenger.

[Power n Glory]

nah, spot on from arseblog

I agree with that. We can't keep repeating the same mistakes while expecting a different outcome. Nasri hasn't even signed a new contract yet and people are already pipping him to take on Cesc's role. The same guy that had one good spell at the start of the season then fell off during the business end.

I'm not happy about us selling Cesc but it's time for him to go. 8 years and we've won nothing. Cesc doesn't slow down our play, we just have an unbalanced squad. We've got too many none direct, playmakers/wingers like Rosicky, Arshavin and Nasri playing for us outwide, plus we've wasted a lot of time playing guys like Denilson and Diaby in the middle of the field, when we've needed a Wilshere type for morning. Wenger could have easily played Rosicky, Hleb or Nasri in the middle with Cesc with proper direct threat wingers on the flanks, but instead he went for this bastardised 'total football' style that doesn't work. We've wasted seasons playing square pegs in round holes and I still can't understand why he played Diaby and Eboue on the flanks. Those types of decisions have held us back and it's not just the one off game he'd do this.

Losing Cesc won't correct anything. When a manager plays Diaby and Eboue out on the flanks, then something is wrong. Neither of them are any good at passing or decision making, so why do it? For years, I've thought a Nasri/Hleb/Rosicky type would work well in a 4-3-3. Instead, we kept playing a 4-4-2 and when Wenger finally clocked on to playing 3 in the middle, he decides to play Denilson and Diaby in the middle. It's really frustrating to see this. We can sell Cesc, but our problems won't end. Wenger wants to play Total Football and we'll continue to see the same results with or without Cesc.

[Marc Overmars]

When you consider Nasri and Cesc already want to leave whilst Wenger is in charge, what difference does it make if they leave if Wenger goes?

This.

They don't care about Wenger or his philosophy, at the end of the day they're typical footballers who only care about themselves. They probably laugh at him behind his back.

Wenger should man up and boot them into touch because his kids aren't kids anymore.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

answer me this, a lot of players are here because of wenger. if he goes, nasri will be off, cesc will be off and i think others would be too. pre season starts next week, we wouldnt have a new manager in in time, i reckon it would take about 3-4 weeks to get one in. almost start of season. giving not much time in transfer market and deals taht are supposedly being done now, (cahill samba etc) would be compromised without a manager or wenger.

they want to leave this season, so thats where your argument or point becomes invalid. Thar aargument of players wanting to play for Wenger and will leave once he leaves is dated and really ain't true no more.

Players like Cesc and Nasri are playing for themselves no one else.

[Özim]

This.

They don't care about Wenger or his philosophy
Who does except for Wenger and the board?

We've got nothing to lose by getting rid of Wenger IMO, but potentially so much to gain...it's a no brainer for me he should be replaced.

[selassie]

I agree with that. We can't keep repeating the same mistakes while expecting a different outcome. Nasri hasn't even signed a new contract yet and people are already pipping him to take on Cesc's role. The same guy that had one good spell at the start of the season then fell off during the business end.

I'm not happy about us selling Cesc but it's time for him to go. 8 years and we've won nothing. Cesc doesn't slow down our play, we just have an unbalanced squad. We've got too many none direct, playmakers/wingers like Rosicky, Arshavin and Nasri playing for us outwide, plus we've wasted a lot of time playing guys like Denilson and Diaby in the middle of the field, when we've needed a Wilshere type for morning. Wenger could have easily played Rosicky, Hleb or Nasri in the middle with Cesc with proper direct threat wingers on the flanks, but instead he went for this bastardised 'total football' style that doesn't work. We've wasted seasons playing square pegs in round holes and I still can't understand why he played Diaby and Eboue on the flanks. Those types of decisions have held us back and it's not just the one off game he'd do this.

Losing Cesc won't correct anything. When a manager plays Diaby and Eboue out on the flanks, then something is wrong. Neither of them are any good at passing or decision making, so why do it? For years, I've thought a Nasri/Hleb/Rosicky type would work well in a 4-3-3. Instead, we kept playing a 4-4-2 and when Wenger finally clocked on to playing 3 in the middle, he decides to play Denilson and Diaby in the middle. It's really frustrating to see this. We can sell Cesc, but our problems won't end. Wenger wants to play Total Football and we'll continue to see the same results with or without Cesc.

:gp:

Top post P'n'G, I'm with you all the way on this.

[selassie]

Who does except for Wenger and the board?

We've got nothing to lose by getting rid of Wenger IMO, but potentially so much to gain...it's a no brainer for me he should be replaced.

Well I personally wanted him gone last season and still want him gone now.

Some folks might like me saying this and may think I'm being a bit dramatic but Wenger is doing more damage than good now.

[Cripps_orig]

The trust in Wenger is gone.

Our captain wants to leave. Fans dont trust Wenger. No doubt RVP would want to leave as well but he realises this is as good as it gets for him cos no other club would be stupid enough to keep a player on mega wages who misses a big chunk of every season so he keeps quiet.

I think Cesc fucking off will hurt Wenger. Unlike Henry and Vieira, Cesc came up through the youth team and is Wengers baby.

Hopefully it hurts him enough that he never recovers from it and he leaves Arsenal.

One can only hope

[Ollie the Optimist]

The trust in Wenger is gone.

Our captain wants to leave. Fans dont trust Wenger. No doubt RVP would want to leave as well but he realises this is as good as it gets for him cos no other club would be stupid enough to keep a player on mega wages who misses a big chunk of every season so he keeps quiet.

I think Cesc fucking off will hurt Wenger. Unlike Henry and Vieira, Cesc came up through the youth team and is Wengers baby.

Hopefully it hurts him enough that he never recovers from it and he leaves Arsenal.

One can only hope

you sir are an idiot :tiphat:

[Cripps_orig]

you sir are an idiot :tiphat:

Says the guy who thinks Wenger leaving will mean Cesc and Nasri will leave

I assume the fact they want to leave anyway doesnt come in to it?

:lol:

[Ollie the Optimist]

they want to leave this season, so thats where your argument or point becomes invalid. Thar aargument of players wanting to play for Wenger and will leave once he leaves is dated and really ain't true no more.

Players like Cesc and Nasri are playing for themselves no one else.

i take your point but my argument is still valid to some extents because last year it was wenger that made him stay (yes ok barca didnt offer enough) but it was still wenger that made him stay, i think if cesc does stay and nasri does it will be down to wenger, there is hope (small though i grant you) but if those two stay, it will be because of wengers input nothing more

[Toronto Gooner]

if wenger was to go now, we'd be fucked for next season, wouldnt win a thing, wouldnt qualify for europa league imo. it would throw us into chaos but then thats great for you cos you can moan that board didnt make the right choice
Ollie,

Sadly I know people who would be rejoicing if that were to happen. They have built themselves into such a froth over their "hatred" of Wenger that to them relegation would be a price worth paying to get rid of him.

[Cripps_orig]

Ollie,

Sadly I know people who would be rejoicing if that were to happen. They have built themselves into such a froth over their "hatred" of Wenger that to them relegation would be a price worth paying to get rid of him.

Whereas there are some who would love us to be relegated as long as Wenger is in charge

[Joker]

Ollie,

Sadly I know people who would be rejoicing if that were to happen. They have built themselves into such a froth over their "hatred" of Wenger that to them relegation would be a price worth paying to get rid of him.

I don't think there's hatred of Wenger, just anger at his intransigence and inability to see that his method of working has been discredited. Moreover, he has this ideological attachment to player development, and constantly trots out the line that he won't sign players because they could "kill" the youngsters at the club, many of whom have barely developed at all since 2006 (e.g. Bendtner, Diaby, Denilson)

His apparently principled stance against huge debt doesn't excuse him for not spending the requisite money on top quality players, who would have strengthened our squad and may have helped us win a trophy or two in the last 5-6 years. We haven't been that far away from winning silverware, but because Wenger failed to make the necessary additions to our squad we have fallen by the wayside each time over the last 3 seasons especially. Making those signings wouldn't have significantly increased the debt, because it is entirely possible to find good quality, experienced players for a reasonable transfer fee, like we did with Vermaelen and Sagna.

I reiterate that a bit of short term pain is worth it, if it allows the club to pursue a new direction without being constrained by ideological biases that have prevented us from achieving what we all feel was within our grasp.

[Letters]

Whereas there are some who would love us to be relegated as long as Wenger is in charge

No. They want Wenger to be in charge because they know under him that will never happen.

[Toronto Gooner]

I don't think there's hatred of Wenger, just anger at his intransigence and inability to see that his method of working has been discredited. Moreover, he has this ideological attachment to player development, and constantly trots out the line that he won't sign players because they could "kill" the youngsters at the club, many of whom have barely developed at all since 2006 (e.g. Bendtner, Diaby, Denilson)
For the record, I am not talking about anyone who posts here. Most of these people I am referring to are internet based, do not live in London, and for the most part have never actually been to a live Arsenal game. And while it was initially anger, it has progressed to way beyond that.

[Cripps_orig]

No. They want Wenger to be in charge because they know under him that will never happen.

Give us a few more years under Wenger and we'll see

[IBK]

:good:

Yup totally agree Zim, Arsene is the problem.

Its Me is Zim? :faint:

[Cripps_orig]

Its Me is Zim? :faint:

Couldnt you tell from his posts?

I worked it out straight away

Zimm :bow:

He knew what would happen to Arsenal before any of us and we didnt listen. Now whos laughing?

Great poster he is

[Letters]

Give us a few more years under Wenger and we'll see

Well, you know that Wenger will never get us relegated. He's never failed to secure a top 4 finish and while I agree that should be the minimum expectation for a club of our stature he has delivered that. Also, the fact that it's our minimum expectation now is entirely down to Wenger...

I'm frustrated by our failings and conflicted about Wenger but people don't want him to stay just 'cos it's him, or because of past glories. If people still want him to stay then it's because in his worst season we got to a Cup Final and finished 4th.

[Letters]

He knew what would happen to Arsenal before any of us and we didnt listen. Now whos laughing?

From his posts, not him.