Mourinho in?

[GP]

Would you?

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Mourinho in a shark infested pool? Yes please.

[dostoy]

Pointless poll / thread.

[Bumble]

not in a million years.

[dostoy]

Douglas Reynholm, you have an extremely vivid imagination.

Never will happen of course.

I still say that if he had been the Arsenal manager instead of ever being the Chelsea manager, then we would all love him instead of despising him.

[Letters]

Would be an absolute disaster, long term. He's toxic. Chequebook manager who has never sustained success anywhere as no-one can stick working with him for long.

[Master Splinter]

He's toxic. Chequebook manager who has never sustained success anywhere as no-one can stick working with him for long.

Exactly right.

[Kano]

Definitely.

Wenger dead.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

A vat of acid? Sure.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Douglas Reynholm, you have an extremely vivid imagination.

Never will happen of course.

I still say that if he had been the Arsenal manager instead of ever being the Chelsea manager, then we would all love him instead of despising him.

Some Arsenal fans feel that way about Wenger so there's nothing to say people wouldn't still feel that way about Mourinho.

It's irrelevant when so many other clubs feel the same way about him anyway.

[Özim]

Some Arsenal fans feel that way about Wenger so there's nothing to say people wouldn't still feel that way about Mourinho.

It's irrelevant when so many other clubs feel the same way about him anyway.

Bit different, we've had 20 years of Wenger and the last 10 hasn't been great, it's not half a season. Wenger after a few seasons still had the majority of people's support despite his glaring mistakes.

20 years at a club is too long for any manager anyway, things get stale and the desire to win becomes diluted.

[Letters]

20 years at a club is too long for any manager anyway, things get stale and the desire to win becomes diluted.

Wenger's desire to win is undiminished, but I kinda agree 20 years at a club is arguably too long.
But he's delivered over the last 2 years since we've had the money to compete better and right now we're in the title mix.
If we collapse again I'd agree he should be sacked.

[Özim]

Wenger's desire to win is undiminished, but I kinda agree 20 years at a club is arguably too long.
But he's delivered over the last 2 years since we've had the money to compete better and right now we're in the title mix.
If we collapse again I'd agree he should be sacked.

It's debateable IMO, time and time again he just won't do the necessary in the transfer market, surely a manager who's only goal is success wouldn't do this, in addition he seems to have great pride in coming 3rd/4th and qualifying for the CL for the nth season, which isn't exactly the sign of a desire to win. Not maintaning momentum could also be an argument against a genuine desire to win.

I'm not saying he doesn't like winning, just that it's become less important to him over the years, seems to get more satisfaction from making the club a profit tbh.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It can happen after two. Some Chelsea fans were weary of Mourinho and this isn't being wise after the event, this was the case before he was sacked.

[Letters]

It's debateable IMO, time and time again he just won't do the necessary in the transfer market, surely a manager who's only goal is success wouldn't do this
Wenger's only goal isn't success, nor should it be. During the years when a combination of the stadium move and the billionaires inflating the market affected our ability to compete he could have gambled on success by spending money we didn't really have but he chose to look longer term. I think at times he was too frugal but I have no problem with the general principle of thinking longer term. Mourinho has never achieved long term success anywhere, yes he's able to do well in the short term - usually by throwing money around or inheriting a very good squad or both - but he's such an utter **** that it doesn't take long before people start turning against him and refuse to work with him which is exactly what has happened at Chelsea.


in addition he seems to have great pride in coming 3rd/4th and qualifying for the CL for the nth season, which isn't exactly the sign of a desire to win. Not maintaning momentum could also be an argument against a genuine desire to win.
He maybe does take a bit too much pride in that, and in balancing the books, but it was a pretty impressive achievement to keep finishing in the top 4 over such a long period as other clubs spunked money to try and unseat us, and we're now in a very good position financially which should enable any future manager to compete. Wenger has succeeded in more ways that he's failed over the last 10 years IMO, I'm pleased for him that he's won the 2 FA Cups, I hope he can deliver at least one more title before he bows out.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think I'd despise him even if he was Arsenal manager because of the turgid football and his constant undermining of fellow professionals, like anyone with severe NPD not a pleasant character.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger's only goal isn't success, nor should it be. During the years when a combination of the stadium move and the billionaires inflating the market affected our ability to compete he could have gambled on success by spending money we didn't really have but he chose to look longer term. I think at times he was too frugal but I have no problem with the general principle of thinking longer term. Mourinho has never achieved long term success anywhere, yes he's able to do well in the short term - usually by throwing money around or inheriting a very good squad or both - but he's such an utter **** that it doesn't take long before people start turning against him and refuse to work with him which is exactly what has happened at Chelsea.


He maybe does take a bit too much pride in that, and in balancing the books, but it was a pretty impressive achievement to keep finishing in the top 4 over such a long period as other clubs spunked money to try and unseat us, and we're now in a very good position financially which should enable any future manager to compete. Wenger has succeeded in more ways that he's failed over the last 10 years IMO, I'm pleased for him that he's won the 2 FA Cups, I hope he can deliver at least one more title before he bows out.

Bizzare.

Wenger is supposed to be the manager. His ONLY goal should be success on the pitch, that's his job. Or it's supposed to be. But at Arsenal we've had two boards that have instead focused on money and the manager has relegated his ONLY priority to secondary status in favour of planning stadium moves and delivering favourable balance sheets. It's complete bullshit. Not his job. His actual job, he's not doing properly.

As for Maureen - twice the manager Wenger is and his record proves it so unbelievable somebody would try to pretend otherwise. On the other hand, he's less than half the human being - a lot less in truth.

[A Gunner]

I think us as fans always want us to win trophies, while Wenger is realistic.

Look, even Mourinhno just trying to get into CL this season after the start Chelsea had, even he said it would be an achievement to be in top 4.

[Letters]

His actual job, he's not doing properly.
Well, we've just won 2 FA Cups in a row and we're currently 2nd in the league and have qualified for the last 16 of the CL, so we'll have to agree to disagree about that. Whether he does his job for the rest of the season remains to be seen.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well, we've just won 2 FA Cups in a row and we're currently 2nd in the league and have qualified for the last 16 of the CL, so we'll have to agree to disagree about that. Whether he does his job for the rest of the season remains to be seen.

Well you can agree or disagree all you like but it doesn't change the facts. No top manager would swap their titles and European trophies for Wenger's 2 FA cups and 2nd in the league. He hasn't won or even competed properly for a major honour since 2006. Maureen said any normal club would have sacked a manager who had failed over such a protracted period - well this morning he wakes up knowing that's 100% true. It would be nice to think we stuck by Wenger because we are the opposite of the chavs and have a bit of class. Well people can believe that or not - again, it doesn't change the facts. Money.

[Letters]

Well you can agree or disagree all you like but it doesn't change the facts.
No, it doesn't. I gave the facts.

No top manager would swap their titles and European trophies for Wenger's 2 FA cups and 2nd in the league.
Why are you comparing those 2 things? A valid comparison to 2 FA cups and 2nd in the league would be how the Chelsea have done under Mourinho in the equivalent timeframe.
1 title, 1 league Cup, 1 embarrassing slide to a relegation battle. I guess Mourinho still edges it because of the title, but it's not a huge difference.


He hasn't won or even competed properly for a major honour since 2006.
That's not true anyway as we have been in the title mix on a couple of occasions, but the FA Cup is obviously a major honour. As there's no way of definitively deciding what is and isn't a major honour though, there's no point in going round and round that circle again.


Maureen said any normal club would have sacked a manager who had failed over such a protracted period

Wenger should arguably have been sacked during the 8 years, he was a safe pair of hands during the stadium move, keeping us top 4 in that era was pretty impressive but the lack of trophies is pretty damning. I don't think many clubs would have sacked their manager in the last couple of seasons though when the new money started rolling in and the new signings started to make a difference.


It would be nice to think we stuck by Wenger because we are the opposite of the chavs and have a bit of class. Well people can believe that or not - again, it doesn't change the facts. Money.
I think it's a bit of both. He was a safe pair of hands financially and he's probably been the best thing for the long term future of the club. If you have loads of money and want short term success and long term acrimony then Mourinho's your man. No thanks.

[Letters]

Addendum

The FA Cup is listed 8th in this list, obviously it's all subjective but they say they've based it on "their global reputation and sporting challenge."

http://www.sportyghost.com/top-10-best-football-tournaments-of-the-world/

4 of the ones above it are International competitions,
There's the Europa League and CL, fair enough.
And there's the Copa Libertadores which apparently is a South American equivalent of the CL which we probably will never win under Wenger.

It's the only domestic cup competition listed.

[Alpha]

Many fans are making any comment without considering where Arsene Wenger has brought Arsenal from . Wenger is the archetect of the actual Arsenal that so many people are proud of . Before him Arsenal were winning titles and cups just like Aston Villan , Blackburn or Nottigham Forest were . In fact it takes more than just winning titles to be a huge club.
When Wenger was competing with Alex Ferguson , he woke up and realised he was been distracted by winning while Manchester United were building a football empire like Real Madrid , Barcelona , Bayern Munich ..etc..That was a waking call . He had to change his tactics . He was no longer thinking of just winning a title ,which is a short term project ,but he was dreaming of an Arsenal of the same level as Real Madrid or Barcelona . ,
With Wenger , Arsenal has one of the most morden stadiums . The fan base has tremendously increased worldwide . The income is increasing which is allowing the manager to have more transfer kitty . Arsene managed to maintain Arsenal amongst the big ones without ruining the finances of the club . People can be frustrated with Wenger today but he is making the job of the next manager easier . He deserves respect for his great job from true fans .

[Niall_Quinn]

There goes the "true fans" thing again.

The money guys must be laughing their cocks off at the true fans who point at all the cash rolling in for the likes of Kroenke and saying hey, wow, what a job we have done. No trophies, a string of embarrassing humiliations at the hands of our so-called rivals but fuck, just look at those sponsorship deals!

It's true, Wenger has done a marvellous job in terms of building the club's stature globally. I doubt anyone would say otherwise. But that has become his primary role and the football has taken a back seat. Every other manager gets judged by their results on the pitch. Not Wenger. He's judged by a whole different set of standards and this has allowed him to linger on when any other manager would have been sacked given his failure to leverage the resources he's had at his disposal into tangible footballing success. It's also true to say he has prepared the ground well for the next manager. And that's the point. When are we getting the manager who is going to shift the focus back to the pitch?

Wenger could have been kicked upstairs years ago to handle all that stuff that seems dear to him, and good on him as he genuinely seems to have a regard for the club in terms of its longevity and stability. So what's he doing in the manager's role? It's like the mechanic driving the race car, brilliant car, superbly engineered, but the guy can't drive. Get a fucking driver in.

[Niall_Quinn]

Letters, I'm not joking, I think somebody criticised Wenger on another thread and you missed it. Can't recall what thread. But it'll probably be on your alert dashboard.

[Dein-machine]

No, it doesn't. I gave the facts.

Why are you comparing those 2 things? A valid comparison to 2 FA cups and 2nd in the league would be how the Chelsea have done under Mourinho in the equivalent timeframe.
1 title, 1 league Cup, 1 embarrassing slide to a relegation battle. I guess Mourinho still edges it because of the title, but it's not a huge difference.


That's not true anyway as we have been in the title mix on a couple of occasions, but the FA Cup is obviously a major honour. As there's no way of definitively deciding what is and isn't a major honour though, there's no point in going round and round that circle again.



Wenger should arguably have been sacked during the 8 years, he was a safe pair of hands during the stadium move, keeping us top 4 in that era was pretty impressive but the lack of trophies is pretty damning. I don't think many clubs would have sacked their manager in the last couple of seasons though when the new money started rolling in and the new signings started to make a difference.


I think it's a bit of both. He was a safe pair of hands financially and he's probably been the best thing for the long term future of the club. If you have loads of money and want short term success and long term acrimony then Mourinho's your man. No thanks.

You often mention the stadium move & subsequent costs as an potential excuse for Wenger's failure to win major trophies. Ofcourse, I would agree 100% that if the move restricted our transfer chest for the following decade then it was bound to have an effect but I quite clearly remember when Fitz & Wenger were on TV during the Emirates build, the only things being discussed were that the stadium move was being done to make us the driving force of European football. At subsequent AGM, ofcourse the most obvious question from any fan was the effect the move would have on our finances but unless I am mistaken ( & I dont suggest i heard everything that was said ) we were told the move would increase our ability to spend becuase we only needed something like 37,000 at home games to fund the stadium repayments, the rest of the revenue which included new kit & TV deals would mean we could continue to compete. This was key in most peoples eyes because why would you want to build a new stadium if you didnt have the money to sustain success - it would quickly backfire on you with dwindling attendances & losing out on the best kit/sponsorship deals.
However what has happened since the move. Our long standing shareholders who wouldn't dream of selling their shares ( handed down through the generations) & were going to steer us to the promise land of European glory - amazingly decided to sell up to a yank due to the unbelievable fact that our value had dramatically increased with the new stadium as an asset & the additional new revenue that came with it. Who would have ever thought it!!!
Since the move we have not competed for our domestic trophy ( we were winning it or finishing 2nd before the move ) - we have got nowhere near the CL final ( we made a final & were regularly getting into qtr finals before the move ).
Forgetting the corrupt Spanish pair & the success they have had - you only have to look at Bayern ( who by the way were not winning the German title regularly when we were at Highbury ) & other teams such as Dortmund & Athletico, to see where we actually are against teams who haven't moved to stadiums that are doubling the capacity & increasing the revenue. You could argue that many teams in the PL are closer to us now than they were 10 years ago.
I agree with you that Wenger was " a safe pair of hands" to take us through the post stadium build, winning at a level that guaranteed us the riches of CL football but not spending enough or in the right areas to compete properly - but was " a safe pair of hands", finishing 4th & then only getting through the CL group stages what he & Fitz had promised stood in the brand new directors box at project Emirates. The promise of European greatness spurring us on to go & pay way over the odds for season tickets in comparison to other top European sides.
Leicester City have proved this year that money spent on quality players in the right areas backed up by others who are hard working & gutsy will win football games. City & Chelsea can only have so many players in a squad. With this in mind, I believe project Emirates should be viewed as the con trick that it was - not as an excuse for Mr Wenger - who by the way had a nice few shares himself.

[Letters]

No trophies
Did you stop watching in 2013? :unsure:

Every other manager gets judged by their results on the pitch. Not Wenger.
Of course he does. The board's clear target for Wenger was top 4 football. He's delivered that every year and now he's started delivering trophies. This is speculation, obviously, but if we'd started a season as poorly as Mourinho has this year I don't think he'd have kept his job.
If we fail to push on now the money is there then he should be sacked. He probably should have been sacked at some points during the barren spell but with the gap between the money we had available and the money City, Chelsea and even Utd were splashing around it's completely unrealistic to have expected us to maintain the level we were at in Wenger's first 8 years with us. That doesn't absolve him of blame, we should have picked up a few trophies in that era, but IMO he's got more right than wrong.


When are we getting the manager who is going to shift the focus back to the pitch?
Well, Wenger has started delivering trophies, were I his boss I would at least give him this season to show he can push on for the biggest prizes now the money is available for us to properly compete. If he doesn't then he should go.

[I am invisible]

It's been said before, but there's a big difference between a manager and a head coach: Wenger is the former; Mourinho is the latter.

If there's a debate to be had here, then it's whether we still need a manager, going forward, or whether we're now set up well enough as a club to be looking at head coaches, with fewer, but more focussed responsibilities? That's an entirely reasonable ask.

But I don't think it's fair to be suggesting that Wenger hasn't been doing his job properly? Up until the last 2 or 3 years, we genuinely needed a manager more than a head coach, and when it comes to running so many aspects of one club (not to mention doing it on a budget in the age of billionaire owners and obscene spending), then Wenger is one of the best 'managers' there's ever been. Mourinho, in the same situation, might have got us a couple of quick trophies, but can you picture him steering us through nearly 10 years of financial restrictions and book-balancing? He'd have ruined us within 2, thinking of nothing but what was best for him, and then left us with the wreckage...

[Alpha]

There goes the "true fans" thing again.

The money guys must be laughing their cocks off at the true fans who point at all the cash rolling in for the likes of Kroenke and saying hey, wow, what a job we have done. No trophies, a string of embarrassing humiliations at the hands of our so-called rivals but fuck, just look at those sponsorship deals!

It's true, Wenger has done a marvellous job in terms of building the club's stature globally. I doubt anyone would say otherwise. But that has become his primary role and the football has taken a back seat. Every other manager gets judged by their results on the pitch. Not Wenger. He's judged by a whole different set of standards and this has allowed him to linger on when any other manager would have been sacked given his failure to leverage the resources he's had at his disposal into tangible footballing success. It's also true to say he has prepared the ground well for the next manager. And that's the point. When are we getting the manager who is going to shift the focus back to the pitch?

Wenger could have been kicked upstairs years ago to handle all that stuff that seems dear to him, and good on him as he genuinely seems to have a regard for the club in terms of its longevity and stability. So what's he doing in the manager's role? It's like the mechanic driving the race car, brilliant car, superbly engineered, but the guy can't drive. Get a fucking driver in.

A fan must be motivated by Irrational enthusiasm . A fan must not change his mind or his philosophy about their team . When you are a fan you support your team no matter what . Winning or losing , you are behind your team . A fan is a short cut of " fanatic" .If you ask anyone what is fanatic you will get a strait answer .

[Letters]

You often mention the stadium move & subsequent costs as an potential excuse for Wenger's failure to win major trophies. Ofcourse, I would agree 100% that if the move restricted our transfer chest for the following decade then it was bound to have an effect but I quite clearly remember when Fitz & Wenger were on TV during the Emirates build, the only things being discussed were that the stadium move was being done to make us the driving force of European football.
Did they say when? Maybe they meant longer term. Or maybe they did think it would immediately push us on and didn't account for or foresee the way the billionaires coming in would inflate the transfer market and salaries.
Our ability to spend probably did go up after the stadium move but we still couldn't compete with what Chelsea and City were doing. Without those two I reckon we'd have won a title or two in the last 10 years.

Long term the stadium move was obviously a good and necessary thing to do. Maybe the board didn't foresee how it would affect us in an exponentially increasing transfer market, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do or a big con trick.

We tied ourselves into long term financial deals - it's easy to look back with 20:20 hindsight and see that as a mistake as subsequent deals at other clubs dwarfed it, but it was a way of mitigating the risk that comes with a long term loan. Now the new financial deals are in place we have started spending folding money and it's had an immediate impact in terms of trophies. Whether we'll push on and compete with teams like Bayern...well, City and Chelsea have struggled to despite the money they've been throwing around so it's easier said than done, but the stadium move gives us a much better chance than had we stayed at Highbury, why do you think so many other clubs have also either moved stadium or are looking to?

[Globalgunner]

A fan must be motivated by Irrational enthusiasm . A fan must not change his mind or his philosophy about their team . When you are a fan you support your team no matter what . Winning or losing , you are behind your team . A fan is a short cut of " fanatic" .If you ask anyone what is fanatic you will get a strait answer .

Letters

Really guys, just give it up the man is besotted. He would happily see the last 10 years repeat itself with a grand hail of 2 FA cups and Wenger with his walking stick poking an equally enfeebled Steve Bould to flap his arms up and down at Sir Jack wilshere our captain who has just surrendered possession for the 50th time.

BTW a fan job is not to be a fool or idiot. You should complain vehemently when you are obviously being taken for a ride.

[Dein-machine]

Did they say when? Maybe they meant longer term. Or maybe they did think it would immediately push us on and didn't account for or foresee the way the billionaires coming in would inflate the transfer market and salaries.
Our ability to spend probably did go up after the stadium move but we still couldn't compete with what Chelsea and City were doing. Without those two I reckon we'd have won a title or two in the last 10 years.

Long term the stadium move was obviously a good and necessary thing to do. Maybe the board didn't foresee how it would affect us in an exponentially increasing transfer market, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do or a big con trick.

We tied ourselves into long term financial deals - it's easy to look back with 20:20 hindsight and see that as a mistake as subsequent deals at other clubs dwarfed it, but it was a way of mitigating the risk that comes with a long term loan. Now the new financial deals are in place we have started spending folding money and it's had an immediate impact in terms of trophies. Whether we'll push on and compete with teams like Bayern...well, City and Chelsea have struggled to despite the money they've been throwing around so it's easier said than done, but the stadium move gives us a much better chance than had we stayed at Highbury, why do you think so many other clubs have also either moved stadium or are looking to?

we cant use the Chelsea & City money as a reason we haven't done what was promised. To be Europe's elite ( as per the stadium promise ) we would have had to take on Barca & Madrid who have always have an endless pot of money. We were doing it at Highbury, he had a system in place that worked but he failed to maintain that system when he decided that players like Fabregas could replace Viera or Adebayor could replace Henry. We had the money to buy Ya-Ya as Viera replacement. We had the money to buy a young Suarez or a Lewandowski as an Henry replacement but we chose the cheaper routes & our football philosophy changed. He thought he could could imitate Barca but with far inferior players. A poor mans Barca was good enough to get us top 4 but that was it.
In my opinion - taking money from people offering a service or product that you have no intention of supplying is a con.
We wont know if the stadium move will ever be that good for us because we cannot reach our full potential under Wenger. If he stays for another 5 years & we go back to winning nothing & he continues to not strengthen in obvious areas of need - we may start to miss out on top 4, slide down the league & not fill the stadium. This could happen - we have been OK in recent times mainly due to poor competition for 4th place but other teams are investing far better in their squads - teams like Leicester, Palace & even Stoke could start to knock on top 6 positions along with the Spuds & Liverpool. All the teams I have just mentioned are far closer to us footballing wise than they were in 2006 - the stadium move has done nothing for our success as a football team so far - you say we have money to spend but so do & so will quite a few other teams in the coming years & they have managers that know how to spend it.

[Letters]

Letters

Really guys, just give it up the man is besotted. He would happily see the last 10 years repeat itself with a grand hail of 2 FA cups and Wenger with his walking stick poking an equally enfeebled Steve Bould to flap his arms up and down at Sir Jack wilshere our captain who has just surrendered possession for the 50th time.

Yep. If you ignore all the times I've said Wenger should be sacked if we don't challenge for the title this season, that's exactly my position.
The money is there to compete now so I expect us to.

[Niall_Quinn]

A fan must be motivated by Irrational enthusiasm . A fan must not change his mind or his philosophy about their team . When you are a fan you support your team no matter what . Winning or losing , you are behind your team . A fan is a short cut of " fanatic" .If you ask anyone what is fanatic you will get a strait answer .

And yet the arguments used to sustain Wenger's credibility are based on anything but irrationality and passion. They are cold, methodical, dispassionate, they are balance sheets and cash projections and the triumph of corporate growth over sporting endeavour. It sounds to me like true fans are schizophrenic.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yep. If you ignore all the times I've said Wenger should be sacked if we don't challenge for the title this season, that's exactly my position.
The money is there to compete now so I expect us to.

What do you mean by "this season?" THIS season - or next season? And won't next season be this season once it arrives?

[Letters]

we cant use the Chelsea & City money as a reason we haven't done what was promised. To be Europe's elite ( as per the stadium promise ) we would have had to take on Barca & Madrid who have always have an endless pot of money. We were doing it at Highbury, he had a system in place that worked but he failed to maintain that system when he decided that players like Fabregas could replace Viera or Adebayor could replace Henry. We had the money to buy Ya-Ya as Viera replacement. We had the money to buy a young Suarez or a Lewandowski as an Henry replacement but we chose the cheaper routes & our football philosophy changed. He thought he could could imitate Barca but with far inferior players. A poor mans Barca was good enough to get us top 4 but that was it.
In my opinion - taking money from people offering a service or product that you have no intention of supplying is a con.

Football is not like going to a nice restaurant, a lot of people on here treat it that way.
You go for a nice meal you expect good food, but then you don't have a load of other people trying to make sure they spoil it for you.
Wenger has made mistakes over the last 10 years but he's got more right than wrong.


We wont know if the stadium move will ever be that good for us because we cannot reach our full potential under Wenger.

It's obviously been a good thing for us. We're in an era where money and success are highly correlated, there's no sign of that changing and being at the Emirates generates significantly more money than Highbury ever could. How, long term, could it possibly be anything but a good thing for us?!
And even if you think Wenger is stopping us realising our potential (I personally think that remains to be seen, it's only the last 2 years we've had the money to properly compete and it's already yielded 2 trophies) he won't always be our manager. Long term it was clearly the right thing to do


If he stays for another 5 years & we go back to winning nothing & he continues to not strengthen in obvious areas of need - we may start to miss out on top 4, slide down the league & not fill the stadium.
:lol: People have been saying that for years...

As I keep saying, we need to challenge for the title this year. So far, we are. So long as that continues I'll support him.

[Kano]

And yet the arguments used to sustain Wenger's credibility are based on anything but irrationality and passion. They are cold, methodical, dispassionate, they are balance sheets and cash projections and the triumph of corporate growth over sporting endeavour. It sounds to me like true fans are schizophrenic.

Who the fuck just said that?

[Letters]

What do you mean by "this season?"
I don't really think that needs explanation.

[Niall_Quinn]

Did you stop watching in 2013?

Nope. But then again, I don't for a second imagine the top clubs in the PL view the FA Cup as any measure of success. In gypoland, chavland and mancland they all know what they want when the season kicks off. Us, on the other hand, you said it yourself - top 4 finish. "Completely unrealistic" for us to expect anything else, despite the fact we've topped the league but failed to drive it home, despite the fact we've come up against teams like Monaco in the CL but couldn't bring that brand status we crow about to bear. We have over-achieved on the balance sheet, under-achieved on the pitch. Who would dare to say this isn't the case?

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't really think that needs explanation.

And won't next season be this season once it arrives?

[Letters]

Yeah. I guess if you completely misrepresent my argument you could put it like that. Well done, you win teh internets :good:

[Letters]

And won't next season be this season once it arrives?

You must have a nightmare arranging things with people.

[Niall_Quinn]

You must have a nightmare arranging things with people.

I have a keen sense of time, I know how long a decade is for example. I also know that history doesn't disappear at the start of each new season. I can teach you these things if you like.

[Letters]

I have a keen sense of time.
Cool. If you could just grasp how situations can change over time and how that may affect things then you'll be able to understand my stance. :tiphat:

[Dein-machine]

Posts to Letters in relation to Wenger is like chatting to a religious person if your an atheist. With regards to god, we can safely suggest that either a, God is real & created the earth & all the creatures that live on it or b, We had some kind of big-bang theory & the rest is down to evolution.
With regards to our stadium move - it seems like some on here cannot even get it in their heads that the stadium move was NOT done to make us kings of Europe or NOT done with the end goal of AFC being far better off.

Like the religious story - we have 2 choices.

Choice 1, Danny Fitz, Wenger & the board sat down in the early 2000's & said. We need to build a bigger stadium to increase our revenues, make it easier to more fans to come & see us & therefore give you more money to spend on players MR Wenger. This will make us unbeatable in our domestic league, a league we are already winning or finishing 2nd regularly & it will mean we can take on the bloody Spanish & Italians to win the European cup on a regular basis. Ok - lets get the money in place & do something in 2005/6.

Choice 2, Danny Fitz, Wenger & the board realised at some stage in early 2000's that they were sitting on a gold mine but the lack of potential to re-develop Highbury would ruin the chance to sell the club for serious money.

Things to think about when making your decision.

1, Arsenal shareholders were like family - selling shares in Arsenal was unthinkable to all the family members.
2, We undertook quite a bit of work at Highbury early 2000's - some of which necessary, some of which not if you were thinking of moving stadium.
3, During Highbury work, we played at Wembley 87,000 attendance. Did the penny drop!!
4, Not long after this, we here about project Emirates.
5, Due to comparatively poor kit & sponsorship deals, gate receipts were fairly crucial to have a vehicle to repay the stadium loan. Not so much as issue for family share holders who intend to stay around for many years as they can balance the books by other means but very important if you are intending to sell to an outside party. Hence the highest ticket prices in Europe.
6, Arsenal shares that have never been for sale on mass are greedily gobbled up by a Yank & a Russian making Fitz, Wenger & other shareholders far more wealthier than they were owning that poor old stadium down the road.
7, Who is paying for the loan that made Fitz & the gang amazingly wealthy. You, me, & Sky!!

And in all this time, up until 2013 - the team hadn't won a trophy or even competed for one. Apart from Letters & probably Dougie R, is there really anyone else around who believes in God!!!

[Niall_Quinn]

Cool. If you could just grasp how situations can change over time and how that may affect things then you'll be able to understand my stance. :tiphat:

How things change over time? Seriously? It's the fact yer man won't budge an inch that causes the problems. The predictability of it all. The lack of change, the lack of innovation, the failure to learn from what went before. Only you could defend Wenger by introducing the concept of change. But I'm not saying that with a scowl, I'm smiling, it's entertaining in its ridiculousness, that's what makes it fun posting here.

[Letters]

Posts to Letters in relation to Wenger is like chatting to a religious person if your an atheist.
Not really. My position has shifted quite a lot over the last couple of years, in both directions.
Wenger out early last season, Wenger in at the end when we had the good run, finished 3rd and retained the FA Cup.
Still Wenger In now but with a caveat that if we don't challenge this (you may need to look that word up) season then he should be sacked.

It's you and the other Fundamentalist Wengerophobes who are completely entrenched in your opinions and won't budge an inch no matter what happens.

[Letters]

The predictability of it all.
Says the man who after 4 games confidently agreed we'd be 10 points off the top after 8 games, and after 2 CL games was mocking me by saying "it's too early to judge this" and declared us out of the competition. :lol:

It's interesting how confident you still are in your predictions when you've been wrong about this season so far.

So far, we're challenging. That's what I expect us to do now we have the finances to do so. If we fail to challenge properly this* season then he should be sacked.

* - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/this?s=t

[Niall_Quinn]

Not really. My position has shifted quite a lot over the last couple of years, in both directions.
Wenger out early last season, Wenger in at the end when we had the good run, finished 3rd and retained the FA Cup.
Still Wenger In now but with a caveat that if we don't challenge this (you may need to look that word up) season then he should be sacked.

It's you and the other Fundamentalist Wengerophobes who are completely entrenched in your opinions and won't budge an inch no matter what happens.

So true. One decade they're all Wenger-in, next decade they've done a complete 180. Flip-flop, flip-flop :doh:

[Niall_Quinn]

Says the man who after 4 games confidently agreed we'd be 10 points off the top after 8 games, and after 2 CL games was mocking me by saying "it's too early to judge this" and declared us out of the competition. :lol:

It's interesting how confident you still are in your predictions when you've been wrong about this season so far.

So far, we're challenging. That's what I expect us to do now we have the finances to do so. If we fail to challenge properly this* season then he should be sacked.

* - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/this?s=t

Yes, I agree, it does appear the bear minimum is enough so far this season.

[Dein-machine]

Not really. My position has shifted quite a lot over the last couple of years, in both directions.
Wenger out early last season, Wenger in at the end when we had the good run, finished 3rd and retained the FA Cup.
Still Wenger In now but with a caveat that if we don't challenge this (you may need to look that word up) season then he should be sacked.

It's you and the other Fundamentalist Wengerophobes who are completely entrenched in your opinions and won't budge an inch no matter what happens.

Never been called a Fundamentalist before - makes me sound like I'm a terror threat!!!

I would agree that I am entrenched in my opinions basically because Mr Wenger is entrenched in his. I was absolutely entrenched with a view that we should have bought another DM & striker last year. I am still entrenched with this view, even more so with injury to Coq & knowing that the next time Theo's ankle hits a particulary strong blade of grass, he'll be out for another 2 months. I am completely entrenched with the knowledge that we need to act by buying a top DM in the Jan window. Wenger knows this, as he knew he needed a top striker last year but he will be entrenched in his belief that we'll get by with what we've got to manage another top 4 finish. When Wenger can un-entrench himself from his routine of just doing enough & show us that he wants & knows how to take the title seriously, he may un-entrench me slightly but we both know there will no quality DM bought in Jan because he will feel we will do enough with Flamini & Arteta. Enough to guarantee 4th.

[Letters]

I don't think we'll sign anyone of note in January. While we're in the title hunt - which is where I now expect us to be - I'll back him.
If we fall away because of his inaction then I'll change my view.

[Dein-machine]

I don't think we'll sign anyone of note in January. While we're in the title hunt - which is where I now expect us to be - I'll back him.
If we fall away because of his inaction then I'll change my view.

But like a few years ago when we were in the hunt at Xmas - then had bad injuries to Rambo & Theo ( who were scoring most of our goals ) - he failed to act tin the Jan window, the goals dried up as did our title shout.
Here we are, same position again but with our only proper DM out until late Feb/early March - its not even a discussion. We need to buy a DM - no brainer, nothing to even think about - we have the money - just do it. In what other business would this not happen - if you were close to a major contract but needed to employ another member of staff to give you a better chance of getting it.

[fakeyank]

A fan must be motivated by Irrational enthusiasm . A fan must not change his mind or his philosophy about their team . When you are a fan you support your team no matter what . Winning or losing , you are behind your team . A fan is a short cut of " fanatic" .If you ask anyone what is fanatic you will get a strait answer .

Where did you get this definition from? Everything you said that about being a fan is IMO wrong.

[Letters]

It's easier said than done making a major signing in the January window, I agree it would help our title chances although wouldn't rule us out if we don't sign anyway.
The buck stops with Wenger, if he's unwilling or enable to sign anyone and we fall out of the title race then he should be fired. Probably won't be, mind.

[Globalgunner]

Where did you get this definition from? Everything you said that about being a fan is IMO wrong.

Im a genteel kind of person so I wont say he probably got that definition from his a--e

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

There is a difference from two years ago, no one expected that we would win the title.

Now for me, we can and we should win the title....City are inconsistent, United are a bit like Liverpool after Dalglish left in 1991 and Chelsea ha ha ha ha.

I agree with Wenger it's a good thing for football that Leicester are top after 16 games, but for an Arsenal fan what is good in football is if we win the league.

We've got to perform when it's necessary, no more going to teams like West Brom and giving them three points, no more capitulations to our title rivals. We've got injuries? Fuck it so have City.

Tomorrow should never come, enough building for the future that never happens....it has to be now

[Özim]

A fan must be motivated by Irrational enthusiasm . A fan must not change his mind or his philosophy about their team . When you are a fan you support your team no matter what . Winning or losing , you are behind your team . A fan is a short cut of " fanatic" .If you ask anyone what is fanatic you will get a strait answer .

Sounds more like an extremist than a fan to me.

[Penguin]

I would literally eat my own shit if it would prevent Mourinho becoming Arsenal manager. Horrible little cunt. I hope he fucks off out of this league permanently.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Guardiola's free at the end of the season :coffee:

[Power n Glory]

Ancelotti to replace Pep at Bayern. Slim pickings for choices. It's the two Manchester clubs likely to sign him.

We'll still have Wenger.

[Globalgunner]

Ancelotti to replace Pep at Bayern. Slim pickings for choices. It's the two Manchester clubs likely to sign him.

We'll still have Wenger.

Yay!