Arsenal v Chelsea Match Reaction

[Xhaka Can’t]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HoE4_YcoQg

[Kano]

I'm so angry djekrndkeis djskwnalaldmdndndbdmdndsn

Rage etc

[fakeyank]

Per and Ramsey can fuck off.

Give Alexis a blank check.

AW cannot leave soon enough.

[adzzzbatch]

FUCKING SHIT!!!!

fuck off mertesacker, fuck off flamini, fuck off Walcott, fuck off wenger with your lack of tactics and batshit crazy subs!

[Xhaka Can’t]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6n0A0Cgp3c

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger shown up again. He's clueless and it's a sin he's pulling down so much cash for fucking up for the last decade.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Really, really grim.

Flamisey should not be a thing, you can't win anything without a midfield.

[dostoy]

I never watch Arsenal play live and have'nt done for years now.

I have no faith whatsoever and never will have.

I am not really surprised and we will NOT be winning the title ever again with Wenger.

He has got to go but never will, I can see him still being the manager into his seventies.

[A Gunner]

Just thanks fuck January is over...

[Niall_Quinn]

When is Walnut's next contract negotiation? Must be miles away considering the way he's playing. Can we not move it forward and at least get some effort out of the lazy turd?

[Marc Overmars]

Off go the wheels, yet again we just can't negotiate a tough run of fixtures with any authority at all.

Only positive from today is that we didn't concede more. Oh and Alexis is back, what a man, everyone else gave up but he kept plugging away and opening up possibilities for us. Flamini and Ramsey are a shocking pairing, I'd rather have Song and Denilson again.

We're never going to beat Chelsea again. I give up with this fixture.

On we go.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Oh well at least we get the title delusions done and out of the way early.

[Niall_Quinn]

Really, really grim.

Flamisey should not be a thing, you can't win anything without a midfield.

Tell that to Wenger. He's happily gone without a midfield for the last 3 games. 3 games 2 points. Title my arse. He won't learn, he won't change.

[selassie]

They huffed and they puffed and the house didn't blow down. Thought we wouldn't win & we didn't, was disappointing losing to that shower of shit and not even scoring against them in two games, embarrassing.

We were really bad today, 2 points from the last 3 games tells us all we need to know about this team.

[Kano]

I never watch Arsenal play live and have'nt done for years now.

I have no faith whatsoever and never will have.

I am not really surprised and we will NOT be winning the title ever again with Wenger.

He has got to go but never will, I can see him still being the manager into his seventies.

Didn't you post this the other week too?

[adzzzbatch]

Off go the wheels, yet again we just can't negotiate a tough run of fixtures with any authority at all.

Only positive from today is that we didn't concede more. Oh and Alexis is back, what a man, everyone else gave up but he kept plugging away and opening up possibilities for us. Flamini and Ramsey are a shocking pairing, I'd rather have Song and Denilson again.

We're never going to beat Chelsea again. I give up with this fixture.

On we go.

Pretty much. :good:

We've completely grinded to a halt.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Tell that to Wenger. He's happily gone without a midfield for the last 3 games. 3 games 2 points. Title my arse. He won't learn, he won't change.

I can take it for the first because at that point we had nothing else. The second, bit weird the new guy got no game time but would've been chucked in a bit - the third though, absolute nonsense.

[dostoy]

Didn't you post this the other week too?

I did.

It applies every week.

[Ernesto]

So I take it ozil's been given a free pass for playing like shit against Chelsea for the umpteenth time?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

How wasn't Willian's athleteball MotM? :wacko:

[Munchies]

Off go the wheels, yet again we just can't negotiate a tough run of fixtures with any authority at all.

Only positive from today is that we didn't concede more. Oh and Alexis is back, what a man, everyone else gave up but he kept plugging away and opening up possibilities for us. Flamini and Ramsey are a shocking pairing, I'd rather have Song and Denilson again.

We're never going to beat Chelsea again. I give up with this fixture.

On we go.

With Wenget in charge

[Globalgunner]

TBF to Chelsea they didnt try and press the advantage and really embarrass us like the ought to have done.
Maybe because they are fundamentally shit.
I think we can all see that Wenger is a manager out of time. He couldn't win this league if Ebola struck down all other 19 clubs and their under 21 squads had to see it out. Perpetual clusterfuck of a manager,

[Power n Glory]

Off go the wheels, yet again we just can't negotiate a tough run of fixtures with any authority at all.

Only positive from today is that we didn't concede more. Oh and Alexis is back, what a man, everyone else gave up but he kept plugging away and opening up possibilities for us. Flamini and Ramsey are a shocking pairing, I'd rather have Song and Denilson again.

We're never going to beat Chelsea again. I give up with this fixture.

On we go.

Flamini and Ramsey are awful. No discipline from the pair of them. How far was Flamini running up field instead of holding?

[Marc Overmars]

Why didn't Elmo play? What's the point of not using a player specifically bought this month to reinforce the midfield. He cannot possibly be worse than Flamini or Ramsey. Sod WUMger and his seniority with players.

[Munchies]

We need a dramatic overhaul of our midfield

Bring in El Neny and Coq (if he's back)

[Munchies]

Why didn't Elmo play? What's the point of not using a player specifically bought this month to reinforce the midfield. He cannot possibly be worse than Flamini or Ramsey. Sod WUMger and his seniority with players.

:gp:

Like with Per, it will take them getting injured for them to get replaced

[Master Splinter]

The worst thing about that is that we actually played well after going down to ten and it was certainly the best we've played against Chelsea in about five years ago. We did enough to get something from the game, but basically every player showed a dreadful lack of composure. It would have been less frustrating to just give up and go into our shells as usual.

Mertesacker :doh:.

Ramsey and Ozil just awful. Ox took his brainless moment tally to #8654567533 for the season when he came on.

Campbell, Bellerin and Monreal played well. Alexis was rusty as fuck, but created more than anyone else.


Come on Leicester!

Ranieri :bow:.

[Kano]

Why didn't Elmo play? What's the point of not using a player specifically bought this month to reinforce the midfield. He cannot possibly be worse than Flamini or Ramsey. Sod WUMger and his seniority with players.

I kind of get why, given away to Stoke and home to Chelsea are pretty intense games to start your career in England in the heart of the team. No room to grow or settle into the pace, you have to be faultless from the very start. Tough to do. But Flamini needs murdering. Last year of his contract and he's gone Hollywood to catch another teams eye.

[Letters]

Oh piss off Arsenal, you utter utter twats :fury:

[fakeyank]

Hopefully Elneny will start ahead of Flamini or Ramsey in the coming weeks. Coquelin cannot come back soon enough.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Here's a strange off the wall idea

Don't know how many people here go to games, but how about we pledge that none of us goes to another match as long as Wenger is manager.
I don't want to hate him, but this result is 100% his fault....the lineup was cowardly. We bring in Elnenny to shore up the midfield and we don't have the guts to play him.
He's got to go, take out toilet like Flamini, Arteta, Mertesacker and Ospina and we have a decent squad, and this guy is either beasting them into injury or hardly playing them and they are dog shit when they do play.

But I'm sick of this lack of ruthlessness, how long did it take to get rid of Diaby, and after that we will carry on with Wilshere and Rosicky....like the board will carry on with Wenger out of fear of change and a sense of loyalty.

Fuck loyalty, these seasons won't just keep happening you can guarantee next season man city and Chelsea will have it sorted with a new boss and we won't get a look in, because we dither.

Enough is enough

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Oh piss off Arsenal, you utter utter twats :fury:

Look what you've done Wenger, you've broken Letters.

Can someone leave the poor chap by the curb

[Kano]

Here's a strange off the wall idea

Don't know how many people here go to games, but how about we pledge that none of us goes to another match as long as Wenger is manager.
I don't want to hate him, but this result is 100% his fault....the lineup was cowardly. We bring in Elnenny to shore up the midfield.
He's got to go, take out toilet like Flamini, Arteta, Mertesacker and Ospina and we have a decent squad, and this guy is either beasting them into injury or hardly playing them and they are dog shit when they do play.

But I'm sick of this lack of ruthlessness, how long did it take to get rid of Diaby, and after that we will carry on with Wilshere and Rosicky....like the board will carry on with Wenger out of fear of change and a sense of loyalty.

Fuck loyalty, these seasons won't just keep happening you can guarantee next season man city and Chelsea will have it sorted with a new boss and we won't get a look in, because we dither.

Enough is enough

I think posting that on an extremely low populated Arsenal forum in a forgotten corner of the Internet will prove to be the catalyst for this revolution you speak of.

[fakeyank]

So our next 3 fixtures are Southampton (h), Bournemouth (a) and Leicester (h). I say we make 4 points out of the 9. First game is a definite loss, Bournemouth is a possible win and Leicester will be a draw.

[Marc Overmars]

And I'm going to spend 65 quid tomorrow to watch us get pumped by Barca.

Me. :lol:

[fakeyank]

I think posting that on an extremely low populated Arsenal forum in a forgotten corner of the Internet will prove to be the catalyst for this revolution you speak of.

We have 330 odd members who voted on another thread. Dont know what you think but this is the biggest Arsenal board on the web!

Mods! :bow:

[fakeyank]

Here's a strange off the wall idea

Don't know how many people here go to games, but how about we pledge that none of us goes to another match as long as Wenger is manager.
I don't want to hate him, but this result is 100% his fault....the lineup was cowardly. We bring in Elnenny to shore up the midfield and we don't have the guts to play him.
He's got to go, take out toilet like Flamini, Arteta, Mertesacker and Ospina and we have a decent squad, and this guy is either beasting them into injury or hardly playing them and they are dog shit when they do play.

But I'm sick of this lack of ruthlessness, how long did it take to get rid of Diaby, and after that we will carry on with Wilshere and Rosicky....like the board will carry on with Wenger out of fear of change and a sense of loyalty.

Fuck loyalty, these seasons won't just keep happening you can guarantee next season man city and Chelsea will have it sorted with a new boss and we won't get a look in, because we dither.

Enough is enough

I am going to the next PL game.. Sorry! :lol:

[Letters]

Look what you've done Wenger, you've broken Letters.

Can someone leave the poor chap by the curb

I am, to say the least, not very happy. It's just textbook sodding Arsenal to do this. Chelsea are a bloody awful side and we just CANNOT beat them, or even get a point against them. At home. Twats, the lot of them. The only positive is City continue to falter - if they're in the race then we surely are too - but we have to kill fakeyank and win the next one and get some momentum going again. If this lot come out with all this balls in the press again and then cock up the next game then I will...well, I'll be cross. So there.

[Kano]

We have 330 odd members who voted on another thread. Dont know what you think but this is the biggest Arsenal board on the web!

Mods! :bow:
Are you getting your jet lag out of the way early?

[Power n Glory]

After game 23 in the 2013/14 season, we fell down the table after being top of the league. Deja vu. Game 23 again we're behind City again. Like clockwork.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

After game 23 in the 2013/14 season, we fell down the table after being top of the league. Deja vu. Game 23 again we're behind City again. Like clockwork.

We were points clear in February though if I remember correctly - the hammering against Liverpool is where it really begun.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think posting that on an extremely low populated Arsenal forum in a forgotten corner of the Internet will prove to be the catalyst for this revolution you speak of.

Bullshit. We had almost 400 votes in the Wenger poll. This place is rocking.

[Niall_Quinn]

I am going to the next PL game.. Sorry! :lol:

Damn, I assumed you were at this one. You mean our performances could get worse?

[Niall_Quinn]

I am, to say the least, not very happy. It's just textbook sodding Arsenal to do this. Chelsea are a bloody awful side and we just CANNOT beat them, or even get a point against them. At home. Twats, the lot of them. The only positive is City continue to falter - if they're in the race then we surely are too - but we have to kill fakeyank and win the next one and get some momentum going again. If this lot come out with all this balls in the press again and then cock up the next game then I will...well, I'll be cross. So there.

I already explained this to you. Wenger doesn't do momentum, he wrecks it.

[Niall_Quinn]

And I'm going to spend 65 quid tomorrow to watch us get pumped by Barca.

Me. :lol:

65 quid? Are they having a sale? Up to 90% off, everything must go. Except Wenger.

[Alpha]

Losing today was not Wenger's fault . Some fans are rightly angry but it's just an emotional thing after a defeat.
Players should have known that Per was slow like a tortoise and vulnerable to counteract . Metersacker himself should have been ashamed .An experienced defender like him should have known as a last defender his tackle could be costly . If he had let Costa score the game was still winnable . At 10 vs 11, Chelsea were not the better team . Arsenal should have got at least a draw but they panicked too much and wasted chances after chances .

[Maestro]

we need to be patient guys

1. The new financial deals have only just kicked in
2. We can't just expect to suddenly compete with the likes of City and Chelsea who've been financially doped for the last decade
3. No one else is looking like clear favourites to win it, so we're still very much in it
4. Let's judge Wenger at the end of the season, if he hasn't competed properly for the title then he can go
5. Chin up we've won two F.A Cups in a row, which is a major trophy tbh
6. Buying players is not always the solution
.
.
.
10. How many substitutions have you made, how many games have you managed ...it's not like some Joe Bloggs off the street can just spout tactical or technical solutions
.
.
.
.
15. If Wenger does not have a plan, keep quiet or better yet shut up.
.
.
.
19. Stability has been key to the club and good replacement managers do not grow on trees, the next manager could be a lot worse.
20. We need to offer Wenger a new contract.
.
.
23. Thank you for your interest in our affairs

Yours Sincerely

AFC Board

*PS - Season ticket subscription renewal for next season now open, prices frozen for band 2 games and we've chucked in a free programme.

[fakeyank]

Damn, I assumed you were at this one. You mean our performances could get worse?

Absolutely!! It'll be the day we go 6 points behind the leaders and our wheels will have officially come off the season! :scarf:

[Power n Glory]

We were points clear in February though if I remember correctly - the hammering against Liverpool is where it really begun.

You're right. We came back in game 24 and beat Palace. Then smashed by Liverpool. Game 23 was when we threw away our lead at Southampton.

[Letters]

After game 23 in the 2013/14 season, we fell down the table after being top of the league. Deja vu. Game 23 again we're behind City again. Like clockwork.

Hmm. I think it's a bit premature to conclude we're going to do the same - for one thing City are hardly on a roll either. We've had some tough games, we've not done well in them. If we do fall away again though then I'll be #WengerOut-ing with the best of them.

[Kano]

we need to be patient guys

1. The new financial deals have only just kicked in
2. We can't just expect to suddenly compete with the likes of City and Chelsea who've been financially doped for the last decade
3. No one else is looking like clear favourites to win it, so we're still very much in it
4. Let's judge Wenger at the end of the season, if he hasn't competed properly for the title then he can go
5. Chin up we've won two F.A Cups in a row, which is a major trophy tbh
6. Buying players is not always the solution
.
.
.
10. How many substitutions have you made, how many games have you managed ...it's not like some Joe Bloggs off the street can just spout tactical or technical solutions
.
.
.
.
15. If Wenger does not have a plan, keep quiet or better yet shut up.
.
.
.
19. Stability has been key to the club and good replacement managers do not grow on trees, the next manager could be a lot worse.
20. We need to offer Wenger a new contract.
.
.
23. Thank you for your interest in our affairs

Yours Sincerely

AFC Board

*PS - Season ticket subscription renewal for next season now open, prices frozen for band 2 games and we've chucked in a free programme.
We also won away to Utd in the FA Cup.

[selassie]

After game 23 in the 2013/14 season, we fell down the table after being top of the league. Deja vu. Game 23 again we're behind City again. Like clockwork.

We've been wobbling for a few weeks now. I personally don't think we'll win the league, I don't really rate our chances higher than Leicester or Spurs. When the going gets tough this team folds like a pack of cards.

[Power n Glory]

Losing today was not Wenger's fault . Some fans are rightly angry but it's just an emotional thing after a defeat.
Players should have known that Per was slow like a tortoise and vulnerable to counteract . Metersacker himself should have been ashamed .An experienced defender like him should have known as a last defender his tackle could be costly . If he had let Costa score the game was still winnable . At 10 vs 11, Chelsea were not the better team . Arsenal should have got at least a draw but they panicked too much and wasted chances after chances .

I agree to an extent. I thought we were looking sharp until the sending off. Just ruined the game. But I don't know why Ramsey and Flamini are still starting. They leave us exposed and that got us into a position where Merts could be exposed. Ramsey dives into a tackles and misses high up the pitch leaving Flamini on his own. An unchallenged pass is made that puts Costa through and Merts has a brain fart.

[Niall_Quinn]

Players should have known that Per was slow like a tortoise and vulnerable to counteract. Metersacker himself should have been ashamed.

But the manager doesn't need to figure any of this out? It's all down to the players? That's convenient.

L'Idiot has screwed us 3 weeks in a row with his cowardly bollocks non-tactical clusterfuckery. He chucked the Liverpool game. Shit his pants for the Stoke game and now he's hidden under the bench for the routine beating from the chavs. So in some ways perhaps he's a little bit to blame for the shocking shit that he been presiding over for 10 years.

[Power n Glory]

Hmm. I think it's a bit premature to conclude we're going to do the same - for one thing City are hardly on a roll either. We've had some tough games, we've not done well in them. If we do fall away again though then I'll be #WengerOut-ing with the best of them.

But we just have. :lol: After game 23 we go from top to being behind City. It's a funny coincidence.

Can we recover....I don't know. I hope so.

[gunnerrrrr]

Its not rocket science, flamin and ramsey don't work and that unbalances the whole team. What flamini was doing in the box time and time again i don't know.....absurd

However taking off giroud was a shocker......idotic

[Niall_Quinn]

Hmm. I think it's a bit premature to conclude we're going to do the same - for one thing City are hardly on a roll either. We've had some tough games, we've not done well in them. If we do fall away again though then I'll be #WengerOut-ing with the best of them.

That's what I say every morning at dawn. Just because the sun rose every other morning there's no need to make assumptions about it rising this morning - it could be different this time. And with Wenger it has only been a decade of the same old thing over and over and over and over and over again, nowhere near enough time in which to judge anything. I think we need to judge him in 2019 when his next contract renewal is due.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think posting that on an extremely low populated Arsenal forum in a forgotten corner of the Internet will prove to be the catalyst for this revolution you speak of.

It's not sparking a revolution it's just pointing out that it seems ridiculous to be so angry about Wenger yet kind of tacitly rubber stamp approval of his management.

[Xhaka Can’t]

That's what I say every morning at dawn. Just because the sun rose every other morning there's no need to make assumptions about it rising this morning - it could be different this time. And with Wenger it has only been a decade of the same old thing over and over and over and over and over again, nowhere near enough time in which to judge anything. I think we need to judge him in 2019 when his next contract renewal is due.

TBF, technically, the sun does not rise. It just stays where it is.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's not sparking a revolution it's just pointing out that it seems ridiculous to be so angry about Wenger yet kind of tacitly rubber stamp approval of his management.

You'll always get the likes of Ty along with the increasing number of football tourists who are either mentally certifiable or just there for the photo-op. Plenty of these types to fill the seats. I would think the club would love it if the compos mentis fans stayed away, less negativity in the beautiful world of Arsenal Football Corporation.

[Niall_Quinn]

TBF, technically, the sun does not rise. It just stays where it is.

You see - different already. That's what posi-diddly-tivity can do for you.

[Kano]

TBF, technically, the sun does not rise. It just stays where it is.

Like watching Feo on the wing.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You'll always get the likes of Ty along with the increasing number of football tourists who are either mentally certifiable or just there for the photo-op. Plenty of these types to fill the seats. I would think the club would love it if the compos mentis fans stayed away, less negativity in the beautiful world of Arsenal Football Corporation.

The difference is Ty is a fully paid up member of the Wenger fan club, he thinks the sun shines out of his arse therefore there is no reason why he wouldn't go to games.
What I'm saying is if we genuinely saying we cannot progress under this man it makes a nonsense to go to games whilst the club remains under his management.
I wanted so badly for him to prove me wrong, but our results against Chelsea have been nauseating for the past four years...since we last beat them in the league three draws and six defeats....two goals scored and 17 conceeded.

[Niall_Quinn]

The difference is Ty is a fully paid up member of the Wenger fan club, he thinks the sun shines out of his arse therefore there is no reason why he wouldn't go to games.
What I'm saying is if we genuinely saying we cannot progress under this man it makes a nonsense to go to games whilst the club remains under his management.
I wanted so badly for him to prove me wrong, but our results against Chelsea have been nauseating for the past four years...since we last beat them in the league three draws and six defeats....two goals scored and 17 conceeded.

This game wasn't the turning point, it was the Liverpool game. We had that won and then Wenger did what he has increasingly been doing and made crazy subs that invited pressure on us. Throwing away points like that, whether other clubs around us are losing or not, sets a terrible tone. This was carried into the Stoke match where we again played right into the opponent's hands. 2 points from 6 against a dire Liverpool defence and a toothless (though certainly not studless) Stoke left us relying on a game where we hardly ever get a fair crack. The inevitable happened and it became 2 from 9. And Wenger can easily repeat this over the next 3 games. He won't learn. He won't change anything.

He's just been on saying he takes positives from the game. Either he's deluded beyond all hope of recovery or he's trying to con anyone who watched that shambles. He's only got a leg to stand on because nobody had taken this campaign by the scruff of the neck and we find ourselves near the top despite the fact we've only put in a handful of non-shambolic performances all season. This crash has been coming, long before we stepped on the pitch for the routine loss to the chavs.

Whether the fans stay away or not, this manage has to go. 10 years giving him the benefit of the doubt. There's no doubt remaining. This has to end at some point. 2019 according to the thieves upstairs.

[Letters]

But we just have. :lol: After game 23 we go from top to being behind City. It's a funny coincidence.

Can we recover....I don't know. I hope so.

*sigh*
I don't know any more either. We've not been playing well but we've mostly been getting results, a point away at Stoke and Liverpool isn't a disaster but the mess Chelsea are in we really needed to win today, it would have been a statement of intent. we'd have gone top. We're level on points with City - you could argue we should be ahead of them with some of the results we've got but you could say the same about them. I'd be happy for us both to keep stumbling along and Leicester to win it, frankly.

I'm not going to bite down on the suicide pill till FY comes to town and f**ks up the next game for us <_<

[Niall_Quinn]

a point away at Stoke and Liverpool isn't a disaster

Yes it is.

[Power n Glory]

The good thing is we're getting players back from injury.

[Letters]

That's what I say every morning at dawn. Just because the sun rose every other morning there's no need to make assumptions about it rising this morning - it could be different this time. And with Wenger it has only been a decade of the same old thing over and over and over and over and over again, nowhere near enough time in which to judge anything. I think we need to judge him in 2019 when his next contract renewal is due.

Ah, the man who said we'd be 10 points off the top after 8 games and who confidently declared us out of the CL after the first 2 group games is once again commending himself for his 100% accuracy in foretelling the future...

We're level with City. I'm pissed off with today's result but I've said all along while we're in the race I'll believe we have a chance. If we fall away then yes, Wenger Out. But I'll wait till it happens and while we're level with City (who many are proclaiming Champions Elect) then we're clearly still in the race.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Fuck it - I hope Ranieiri brings the title to Leicester.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ah, the man who said we'd be 10 points off the top after 8 games and who confidently declared us out of the CL after the first 2 group games is once again commending himself for his 100% accuracy in foretelling the future...

We're level with City. I'm pissed off with today's result but I've said all along while we're in the race I'll believe we have a chance. If we fall away then yes, Wenger Out. But I'll wait till it happens and while we're level with City (who many are proclaiming Champions Elect) then we're clearly still in the race.

I miscalculated nothing about us, we've been as shit as expected. I miscalculated about the gypos. They have been shit too, unexpectedly. Essentially you're the man crowing about somebody else being shit while ignoring your own club.

Shit manager.
Shit mentality.
Shit tactics.
Shit subs.
Shit transfer policy.
Shit players (like Mertesacker, when we have Gabriel on the bench)

What's the answer?

I know, Man City are shit!

10 years of it and still here you are with your excuses. Doesn't matter how many times the same shit rolls over, you still kick it down the road.

[fakeyank]

I'm not going to bite down on the suicide pill till FY comes to town and f**ks up the next game for us <_<

Keep faith my friend.. I am bringing a lock of Donald Trumps hair for good luck.

[Niall_Quinn]

Fuck it - I hope Ranieiri brings the title to Leicester.

So do I.

The Arsenal board and manager don't deserve to luck into a title, nor do half the players.

Leicester and Ranieri have been superb and have raised their game. Best team by a mile this year.

[Ralpheroo72]

4th place trophy coming home! Spuds will finish above us this season.

[Power n Glory]

4th place trophy coming home! Spuds will finish above us this season.

Spurs are in the title race. Can imagine if.....:sick:

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMP9XORZmPA

[Xhaka Can’t]

I miscalculated nothing about us, we've been as shit as expected. I miscalculated about the gypos. They have been shit too, unexpectedly. Essentially you're the man crowing about somebody else being shit while ignoring your own club.

Shit manager.
Shit mentality.
Shit tactics.
Shit subs.
Shit transfer policy.
Shit players (like Mertesacker, when we have Gabriel on the bench)

What's the answer?

I know, Man City are shit!

10 years of it and still here you are with your excuses. Doesn't matter how many times the same shit rolls over, you still kick it down the road.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Tpb_4201d4_5462528.jpg

[Xhaka Can’t]

Spurs are in the title race. Can imagine if.....:sick:

Trust in Ranieri.

Pray too.

[Alpha]

But the manager doesn't need to figure any of this out? It's all down to the players? That's convenient.

L'Idiot has screwed us 3 weeks in a row with his cowardly bollocks non-tactical clusterfuckery. He chucked the Liverpool game. Shit his pants for the Stoke game and now he's hidden under the bench for the routine beating from the chavs. So in some ways perhaps he's a little bit to blame for the shocking shit that he been presiding over for 10 years.

Totally agree with you . Flamini and Ramsey are useless in deep midfield . but that shit is the best we got at the moment . I know Elneny was on the bench but we have to take into account the fact he hasn't kicked a single ball in EPL yet . You can't just throw a new guy in a game of such magnitude : he can be forced to make silly mistake and make the game worse or he can completely lose his confidence .
What is more frustrating is to have players who never kept their cool in the final third . Chelsea was there for the taking . Despite the sending off a better team than us should have scored at least two goals . Wenger's fault is to keep such players for so long . We need at least two more Alexis and things will change for the better . We panicked and are too naive in the final third . Just one goal was enough to win the game . At 1-1 , Chelsea would have lost confidence and surrendered .They must be surprised with the 3 points . A gift from the Emirates really .

[Globalgunner]

Please help us Obi Ran. You're our only hope

[Xhaka Can’t]

Please help us Obi Ran. You're our only hope

Sadly, we're stuck with Jar Jar Binks.

[Power n Glory]

Totally agree with you . Flamini and Ramsey are useless in deep midfield . but that shit is the best we got at the moment . I know Elneny was at bench but we have to take into account the fact he hasn't kicked a single ball in EPL yet . You can't just throw a new guy in a game of such magnitude : he can be forced to make silly mistake and make the game worse or he can completely lose his confidence .
What is more frustrating is to have players who never kept their cool in the final third . Chelsea was there for the taking . Despite the sending off a better team than us should have scored at least two goals . Wenger's fault is to keep such players for so long . We need at least two more Alexis and things will change for the better . We panicked and are too naive in the final third . Just one goal was enough to win the game . At 1-1 , Chelsea would have lost confidence and surrendered .They must be surprised with the 3 points . A gift from the Emirates really .

Elneny wouldn't have lost his confidence after one game. It's too early. If he fell flat on his face after the first game it would most likely force him to try harder and know the standard of the league. If he had a good game it would really boost his confidence. We have nothing to lose by starting him.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Totally agree with you . Flamini and Ramsey are useless in deep midfield . but that shit is the best we got at the moment . I know Elneny was on the bench but we have to take into account the fact he hasn't kicked a single ball in EPL yet . You can't just throw a new guy in a game of such magnitude : he can be forced to make silly mistake and make the game worse or he can completely lose his confidence .
What is more frustrating is to have players who never kept their cool in the final third . Chelsea was there for the taking . Despite the sending off a better team than us should have scored at least two goals . Wenger's fault is to keep such players for so long . We need at least two more Alexis and things will change for the better . We panicked and are too naive in the final third . Just one goal was enough to win the game . At 1-1 , Chelsea would have lost confidence and surrendered .They must be surprised with the 3 points . A gift from the Emirates really .

I agree, lets hold back playing Elneny until we're out of the title race and the pressure is off.

[topgun]

He's just been on saying he takes positives from the game. Either he's deluded beyond all hope of recovery or he's trying to con anyone who watched that shambles.


I watched his interview too and I have to agree this guy is deluded,is it any wonder we make the same f--k ups every season.

[Alpha]

I agree, lets hold back playing Elneny until we're out of the title race and the pressure is off.

Well , I agree to disagree . It is not what I am saying at all . First of all , we don't know the state of his fitness at all . Was he 100% ready to play today ? We will never know unless we are in the coaching staff . Were he to be our saviour ? Only God knows .

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9aaEl_zlws&feature=youtu.be&a

Spot on

[IBK]

We've been wobbling for a few weeks now. I personally don't think we'll win the league, I don't really rate our chances higher than Leicester or Spurs. When the going gets tough this team folds like a pack of cards.

This.

Realistic league winners would not have thrown the 3 points against Liverpool. Realistic league winners would not regard a point away at Stoke as something to be content with. And realistic league winners would not have put in an inept performance against a Chelsea team ripe for the taking. I am concerned - not just that we will piss away the poorest EPL for years - but that Spurs will be the team to take advantage of this.

[Niall_Quinn]

Totally agree with you . Flamini and Ramsey are useless in deep midfield . but that shit is the best we got at the moment . I know Elneny was at bench but we have to take into account the fact he hasn't kicked a single ball in EPL yet . You can't just throw a new guy in a game of such magnitude : he can be forced to make silly mistake and make the game worse or he can completely lose his confidence .
What is more frustrating is to have players who never kept their cool in the final third . Chelsea was there for the taking . Despite the sending off a better team than us should have scored at least two goals . Wenger's fault is to keep such players for so long . We need at least two more Alexis and things will change for the better . We panicked and are too naive in the final third . Just one goal was enough to win the game . At 1-1 , Chelsea would have lost confidence and surrendered .They must be surprised with the 3 points . A gift from the Emirates really .

Wenger has thrown players in at the deep end on numerous occasions. He almost destroyed Coquelin chucking him into that humiliation against Utd a few years back. He's thrown the likes of Sanogo into Europe. He's no stranger to it. But for some reason he thinks Flamini and Ramsey work as a midfield pair. Nobody else in the world thinks that - only Wenger. And that's enough to know it's time for him to go. His judgement is shot to hell, he can't spot the obvious stuff any more. He can't see that Mertesacker is a huge liability. He can't see that taking Giroud off when Walcott has been playing so badly effectively reduced us to 9. He can't figure out that then playing Ozil as the striker rather than Theo is insane - he thinks that's perfectly rational. He couldn't reason that Campbell was one of our hardest workers and would have benefited from Alexis coming on as soon as we went down to 10. Alexis is the IDEAL player for that, he's worth 2 men with his work rate. It escapes him that the whole reason for Theo to be playing is for his pace and the tippy tappy game leaves Theo with fuck all to do except be offside waiting for a pass that never comes. He didn't spot the midfield clusterfuck against Liverpool and Stoke so therefore didn't feel the need to make a change going in against Matic, Cuntegas and Mikel. He didn't feel the need to get off his arse and stamp his authority when Ramsey and Flamini were wandering all over the place neglecting their primary responsibilities. I could keep going with this until every aspect of the game is covered. Because the manager got absolutely everything wrong today. Everything. It's 100% his fault. So therefore, you can in fact blame him.

I don't blame the players today. I blame some of them in general for not having worked hard enough all season. But you could have thrown any ten out there and minus any sort of tactics and the crazed formation Wenger settled on it was near on impossible for any player to make sense of it. You have eleven guys all over the place, all with freedom to wander as if we are the finished Barcelona. There's no way Ramsey can be charging up the pitch like that leaving huge gaps unless Wenger has sanctioned it. Wenger has seen something that isn't there, like a guy in a padded cell working out the woes of his imaginary world. He's lost the plot, probably from years of focusing on the money instead of the team. And in that respect his bosses are to blame too. Obviously that must be what they want. But for the sake of what happens on the pitch Wenger has to go now and it would be such a bonus if he'd take that board with him too.

No chance though. 2019 they say. No wonder, they are raking it in. Top gate receipts in all football, trumping Barca and Utd. Now we know what that stadium move was really all about. Yes indeed, we are now competing with the top sides in Europe. Not on the pitch maybe, but where it really counts for the senior people at this club (including Wenger) the balance sheet.

They need to go. And this isn't a reaction to today. That's what I thought before the first ball of the season was kicked and that's what some have thought for years. They were absolutely right then just as they remain right today, because the entire balance of the evidence is right there for all to see and judge.

2019? You could weep.

[Niall_Quinn]

Keep faith my friend.. I am bringing a lock of Donald Trumps hair for good luck.

Plucked from his severed head I trust?

[IBK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9aaEl_zlws&feature=youtu.be&a

Spot on

'Wenger stands there like Mr Bean' :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Realistic contenders still but not without some quite large negatives that are probably only pinned back without certain injuries.

[Alpha]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9aaEl_zlws&feature=youtu.be&a

Spot on

Normal reaction from an angry fan . Had Wenger taken out Walcott or Campbell instead of Giroud same people would have come out why did he keep a slow striker on the pitch when we need pace for counteract . It's a lose lose situation for Wenger . We have lost the game . Let's move on to the next . The Championship is not lost yet we are not that far behind . we are still in the race . Everyone will lose games at a certain point .

[fakeyank]

Plucked from his severed head I trust?

We do not talk like that about the Fuhrer

[Niall_Quinn]

Normal reaction from an angry fan . Had Wenger taken out Walcott or Campbell instead of Giroud same people would have come out why did he keep a slow striker on the pitch when we need pace for counteract . It's a lose lose situation for Wenger . We have lost the game . Let's move on to the next . The Championship is not lost yet we are not that far behind . we are still in the race . Everyone will lose games at a certain point .

Nah. We have lost to the chavs not just today but yet again. Whether they are up, down or somewhere in the middle, one thing can be relied upon every year. Wenger will lose to the chavs because he fucks it up. This is a sure thing. No matter how many time we think it will be different Wenger always delivers this chilling, consistent shit when it really matters. As a result we are left trying to pretend the FA Cup is the measure of a top team. But as for titles, no way. Not with Wenger here. And many of the fans can spot the obvious and they say as much when you ask them.

[Alpha]

Wenger has thrown players in at the deep end on numerous occasions. He almost destroyed Coquelin chucking him into that humiliation against Utd a few years back. He's thrown the likes of Sanogo into Europe. He's no stranger to it. But for some reason he thinks Flamini and Ramsey work as a midfield pair. Nobody else in the world thinks that - only Wenger. And that's enough to know it's time for him to go. His judgement is shot to hell, he can't spot the obvious stuff any more. He can't see that Mertesacker is a huge liability. He can't see that taking Giroud off when Walcott has been playing so badly effectively reduced us to 9. He can't figure out that then playing Ozil as the striker rather than Theo is insane - he thinks that's perfectly rational. He couldn't reason that Campbell was one of our hardest workers and would have benefited from Alexis coming on as soon as we went down to 10. Alexis is the IDEAL player for that, he's worth 2 men with his work rate. It escapes him that the whole reason for Theo to be playing is for his pace and the tippy tappy game leaves Theo with fuck all to do except be offside waiting for a pass that never comes. He didn't spot the midfield clusterfuck against Liverpool and Stoke so therefore didn't feel the need to make a change going in against Matic, Cuntegas and Mikel. He didn't feel the need to get off his arse and stamp his authority when Ramsey and Flamini were wandering all over the place neglecting their primary responsibilities. I could keep going with this until every aspect of the game is covered. Because the manager got absolutely everything wrong today. Everything. It's 100% his fault. So therefore, you can in fact blame him.

I don't blame the players today. I blame some of them in general for not having worked hard enough all season. But you could have thrown any ten out there and minus any sort of tactics and the crazed formation Wenger settled on it was near on impossible for any player to make sense of it. You have eleven guys all over the place, all with freedom to wander as if we are the finished Barcelona. There's no way Ramsey can be charging up the pitch like that leaving huge gaps unless Wenger has sanctioned it. Wenger has seen something that isn't there, like a guy in a padded cell working out the woes of his imaginary world. He's lost the plot, probably from years of focusing on the money instead of the team. And in that respect his bosses are to blame too. Obviously that must be what they want. But for the sake of what happens on the pitch Wenger has to go now and it would be such a bonus if he'd take that board with him too.

No chance though. 2019 they say. No wonder, they are raking it in. Top gate receipts in all football, trumping Barca and Utd. Now we know what that stadium move was really all about. Yes indeed, we are now competing with the top sides in Europe. Not on the pitch maybe, but where it really counts for the senior people at this club (including Wenger) the balance sheet.

They need to go. And this isn't a reaction to today. That's what I thought before the first ball of the season was kicked and that's what some have thought for years. They were absolutely right then just as they remain right today, because the entire balance of the evidence is right there for all to see and judge.

2019? You could weep.

I can see where you are coming from . I agree it was a mistake to take out Campbell who is playing so well instead of walcott who has been so awfull . But we needed a goal and Walcott is more likely to score in a big game than Campbell who has yet to score in a big game for us . Another thing , we created a few chances but didn't take them away . Was that Wenger's fault as well ? I am not defending him at all but I want us to reflect on the game with no emotion .

[IBK]

I can see where you are coming from . I agree it was a mistake to take out Campbell who is playing so well instead of walcott who has been so awfull . But we needed a goal and Walcott is more likely to score in a big game than Campbell who has yet to score in a big game for us . Another thing , we created a fwe chances but didn't take them away . Was that Wenger's fault as well ? I am not defending him at all but I want us to reflect on the game with no emotion .

Not a bad point to make. We are fucked off because of who Chelsea are; our shitty record against them, and the fact that they have been so shite this season - but the result aside, it was not a bad second half performance from us, having played with 10 men from 20 minutes in. Chelsea have great players who have performed shamefully this season. They are self absorbed wankers in the main who cannot motivate themselves with little to play for - and playing us gave them the motivation they needed - so this was always going to be a tough game - and the sending off played straight into their hands. I felt Wenger was unlucky with them scoring so soon after he had decided to sacrifice Giroud. The personnel were then not right for a game where we would always have more chance playing from set pieces than from open play. But this type of game was always going to expose our problems in midfield - and our through balls to the likes of walcott and Campbell were off all afternoon - Ozil went missing for me today. The loss of points against Liverpool, and our negativity against Stoke fuck me off more than today if i put my emotion aside.

[Globalgunner]

I can see where you are coming from . I agree it was a mistake to take out Campbell who is playing so well instead of walcott who has been so awfull . But we needed a goal and Walcott is more likely to score in a big game than Campbell who has yet to score in a big game for us . Another thing , we created a few chances but didn't take them away . Was that Wenger's fault as well ? I am not defending him at all but I want us to reflect on the game with no emotion .

Bloody hell!. There is really an alternate universe out there. Which big game has Walnutt scored in lately?

Seems TY is amongst us tonight.

[Alpha]

Nah. We have lost to the chavs not just today but yet again. Whether they are up, down or somewhere in the middle, one thing can be relied upon every year. Wenger will lose to the chavs because he fucks it up. This is a sure thing. No matter how many time we think it will be different Wenger always delivers this chilling, consistent shit when it really matters. As a result we are left trying to pretend the FA Cup is the measure of a top team. But as for titles, no way. Not with Wenger here. And many of the fans can spot the obvious and they say as much when you ask them.

Let's get it right here . It is true we have lost to Chelsea times and times again . But the turning point today was the sending off . Do you still blame Wenger for that silly Per's mistake ? We created some chances even though Wenger got his tactics wrong . Do you blame him for us panicking in front of Courtois and not putting our chances away ?

[Niall_Quinn]

I can see where you are coming from . I agree it was a mistake to take out Campbell who is playing so well instead of walcott who has been so awfull . But we needed a goal and Walcott is more likely to score in a big game than Campbell who has yet to score in a big game for us . Another thing , we created a few chances but didn't take them away . Was that Wenger's fault as well ? I am not defending him at all but I want us to reflect on the game with no emotion .

I wouldn't have rated Theo's chances higher than Cech's to get a goal. Theo has been appalling over the last few weeks, totally off form. But okay, leave him on and maybe sacrifice Campbell - PROVIDED THEO IS PREPARED TO PUT THE SAME SHIFT IN (which he wasn't and didn't). And to make the counter work you have to have a disciplined midfield distributing the ball precisely and at a high tempo and being ready for when the play breaks down. That's the last thing we had today. Ramsey and Flamini, when they were there at all, appeared to be drunk. That aside, you then need somebody to supply the ammunition. Ozil of course. But what actually happened was Giroud was sacrificed, Theo was left wide and Ozil was pushed forward almost as the striker. That's the last we saw of him in the game of course. No mystery why. Square pegs in round holes from Wenger yet again. And then Ramsey and Flamini were also given license to leg it up the pitch. So how does any of that facilitate the counter attacking game focused on Theo. Effectively Wenger cut him out of the game and reduced us to 9. Hence, if you are going to do that, take Theo off and at least keep a set piece option in place with Giroud and some energy to compensate for being a man light in the form of Campbell. What Wenger chose was the worst of all options (in reality a non-option), killing the possibility of the counter-attacking game as well as snuffing out our abilities to compete further up the pitch. Like I said, he's done, out of his depth.

[Chippy]

Losing today was not Wenger's fault . Some fans are rightly angry but it's just an emotional thing after a defeat.
Players should have known that Per was slow like a tortoise and vulnerable to counteract . Metersacker himself should have been ashamed .An experienced defender like him should have known as a last defender his tackle could be costly . If he had let Costa score the game was still winnable . At 10 vs 11, Chelsea were not the better team . Arsenal should have got at least a draw but they panicked too much and wasted chances after chances .
It is Wengers fault! He bought Mertesacker and played Flamini instead of Elneny! Why did he fucking buy him! If the Scum pip us to the leage (and yes, it's highly possible),Wumger should be hung from the nearest tree!!

[Niall_Quinn]

Let's get it right here . It is true we have lost to Chelsea times and times again . But the turning point today was the sending off . Do you still blame Wenger for that silly Per's mistake ? We created some chances even though Wenger got his tactics wrong . Do you blame him for us panicking in front of Courtois and not putting our chances away ?

Yes I do blame Wenger, in fact I blamed him for today's catastrophe about 6 weeks ago when I said it was beyond comprehension how Mertesacker gets into the team when we have a real defender sat on the bench. Wenger picks the team. He also picked Flamini and Ramsey in the middle having seen that fail badly against Liverpool and Stoke. An absent midfield leaves space and puts added pressure on the back four. You couple those gaping spaces with Mertesacker's total inability to deal with the pace of slow coach Costa and you reach a predictable outcome. For £8mill the manager should be up to speed on these sort of things. His fault.

[Alpha]

Bloody hell!. There is really an alternate universe out there. Which big game has Walnutt scored in lately?

Hummmmmmm . Walcott has scored a few times against Chelsea. He lately scored a screamer against City. Isn't that enough to convince you he can score in a big game? I know his form has recently been awful but we can not deny he can score goals when he has a real chance.

[Niall_Quinn]

Hummmmmmm . Walcott has scored a few times against Chelsea. He lately scored a screamer against City. Isn't that enough to convince you he can score in a big game? I know his form has recently been awful but we can not deny he can score goals when he has a real chance.

Theo has 3 goals this season. He's on target to get about 6 for the year. Let's not turn him into something he's not - a goal scorer. The poor kid needs 20 odd chances before he can stick the thing in the net. He must be one of the most profligate marksmen we've ever had at the club.

[Globalgunner]

Hummmmmmm . Walcott has scored a few times against Chelsea. He lately scored a screamer against City. Isn't that enough to convince you he can score in a big game? I know his form has recently been awful but we can not deny he can score goals when he has a real chance.

Koscielny I believe has scored more goals than Walnutt this season. We might as well have put him up top.

[Alpha]

Yes I do blame Wenger, in fact I blamed him for today's catastrophe about 6 weeks ago when I said it was beyond comprehension how Mertesacker gets into the team when we have a real defender sat on the bench. Wenger picks the team. He also picked Flamini and Ramsey in the middle having seen that fail badly against Liverpool and Stoke. An absent midfield leaves space and puts added pressure on the back four. You couple those gaping spaces with Mertesacker's total inability to deal with the pace of slow coach Costa and you reach a predictable outcome. For £8mill the manager should be up to speed on these sort of things. His fault.

Well , the combo Flamini-Ramsey is the best we have because of Carzola and Coquelin injuries . So if you were the coach who could you pick instead ? New guy Elneny and the inexperienced Chambers ? Metersacker is a slow defender but he can read the game well and bring stability to our defence .
Koscielny and Gabriel look to be the same type of players . Central defendres must be different to compensate their abilities .

[Globalgunner]

Koscielny I believe has scored more goals than Walnutt this season. We might as well have put him up top.

Basically he has taken Gervinho` slot in our team as waster in chief. I great goal a season and half a dozen others. Name me 1 game where the only goal that won us the match was scored by Walcott.

[Niall_Quinn]

Koscielny I believe has scored more goals than Walnutt this season. We might as well have put him up top.

We did at the end, just to add to the farce.

[Power n Glory]

Theo has 3 goals this season. He's on target to get about 6 for the year. Let's not turn him into something he's not - a goal scorer. The poor kid needs 20 odd chances before he can stick the thing in the net. He must be one of the most profligate marksmen we've ever had at the club.

He has better record than anyone else when it comes to scoring against Chelsea and if we're being totally honest, he would have had an assist if Campbell would have made better contact with that first chance on goal we had.

He looked bright, so did Bif but we had a sending off that just skewed the game totally. Wenger didn't help with his tactics or subs. I can sort of understand taking off Bif, but then again, he's our top goal scorer. Which other club does that? Also, I don't understand why he takes off Walcott at 75 mins every game. He's a player that has quiet moments but may pop up with a goal. Chasing the game, I don't see how we're going to score with Bif, Campbell and Walcott off the pitch. Crazy stuff from Wenger.

[Özim]

No surprises here, Chelsea beat us again, a Chelsea side struggling for results this season still come here and beat us at home, this is really embarrassing and proves we lack the bottle and the collapse we always see is happening again.

People have laughed, taken the p*ss and ignored the obvious signs like they always do, but once again, just as we've seen consistently over the last 10 years, we collapse when well placed, how many times dot his have to happen before people actually wake up and smell the coffee?

I noticed some people were the p*ss the other day when Man City were playing the other day, nice one :good:

A decent team would walk this league, teams are literally trying to hand the title to us and still we bottle it....what's left to say?

Mertersacker is an oaf who should be nowhere near a club of our stature, but to be fair Chelsea should have been 2-0 up at least as they had a certain penalty denied today, so looks like the refs helped us out today in some way.

We're not winning the title,, never believed we would, why would we with a man like Wenger in charge, he's borderline incompetent and should have gone years ago, but somehow we still find ourselves in the same situation.

Disappointing but not surprising, it's never going to change.

[Özim]

Wenger shown up again. He's clueless and it's a sin he's pulling down so much cash for fucking up for the last decade.

Spot on, the signs were there in that Liverpool game, but as usual people joked and took the p*ss and pretended it was a good result, 2 games later we see the impact of sh*te like this, another collapse, an embarrassing result against a team who can barely string two wins together and yet they've done the double over us this season.

Another job well done Wenger :good:

[Alpha]

Koscielny I believe has scored more goals than Walnutt this season. We might as well have put him up top.

Koscielny has scored 3 goals which is a good statistic for a defender. walcott has scored just 5. Not bad for a winger but he should have had more. But in a real world , if you need a goal, you gamble on a striker than a defender.

[Özim]

He's clearly not considered good enough, which makes you wonder why as we suspected we bought him, we needed players ready now, not in 5 years.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well , the combo Flamini-Ramsey is the best we have because of Carzola and Coquelin injuries . So if you were the coach who could you pick instead ? New guy Elneny and the inexperienced Chambers ? Metersacker is a slow defender but he can read the game well and bring stability to our defence .
Koscielny and Gabriel look to be the same type of players . Central defendres must be different to compensate their abilities .

Having seem Ramsey and Flamini over the last three games I'd pick myself and you tbf. But that's not the point. As I have already said, it's Wenger's fault we are short there, we knew we had the gap and he ignored it. As usual. But if that's all you have left then you'd better get a performance out of that pair and that comes from having a plan on how to deal with the opposition. Mikel, Gash and Matic vs two disciplined midfielders and we have a prayer. The former three and a big hole and we have no chance. It's not just the selection it's how you then use those players. No way were those two so reckless without the blessing of Wenger.

[Niall_Quinn]

Koscielny has scored 3 goals which is a good statistic for a defender. walcott has scored just 5. Not bad for a winger but he should have had more. But in a real world , if you need a goal, you gamble on a striker than a defender.

Walcott has 3 in the PL, the other two were in the CL. Over the last few weeks he's missed 763,252 chances.

[Niall_Quinn]

He's clearly not considered good enough, which makes you wonder why as we suspected we bought him, we needed players ready now, not in 5 years.

Probably not Arsenal material yet, too much baggage from his previous club. Like forward passing, shooting and tackling.

[Özim]

Hummmmmmm . Walcott has scored a few times against Chelsea. He lately scored a screamer against City. Isn't that enough to convince you he can score in a big game? I know his form has recently been awful but we can not deny he can score goals when he has a real chance.

A decent manager doesn't take his best players off and leave his worst ones on, that makes no sense, Walcott on current form is no more likely to score than Campbell. Moreover Campbell at least creates chances and makes things happen.

Wenger's decisions today were nonsensical, we were lucky not to lose by more, they should have had a dead cert penalty and missed chance after chance to finish us off, if they'd been in better form it probably would have been 6 or more.

[Marc Overmars]

No point protecting Elmo, the league is full of shit kickers, he'll face a new challenge every week regardless. He's played in Europe for a couple of seasons so I'm sure he's familiar with a different level of intensity and quality. Might even have played against Chelsea if he was with them when they faced Basel? But anyway, all he needs to be able to demonstrate right now is some positional awareness and he immediately becomes a better option than Flamini and Ramsey. Without even seeing him play I have faith that he won't be as braindead as either of those 2.

New players come into this league every year and make explosive impacts. Why must we always wrap our lot in cotton wool?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Well , I agree to disagree . It is not what I am saying at all . First of all , we don't know the state of his fitness at all . Was he 100% ready to play today ? We will never know unless we are in the coaching staff . Were he to be our saviour ? Only God knows .

You're probably right about his fitness.

But with a bit of work we should have him on the treatment table soon.

[selassie]

Koscielny has scored 3 goals which is a good statistic for a defender. walcott has scored just 5. Not bad for a winger but he should have had more. But in a real world , if you need a goal, you gamble on a striker than a defender.

5 is bad for a winger that creates next to nothing. Walcott has been really poor this season make no mistake about that. His poor performances have been ignored to an extent because we've been top or thereabouts pretty much all season, now the going is getting tough the likes of him, Ramsey & Oxlade are getting rightly called out for under performing, pretty much every game too.

The sooner the likes of Welbeck, Rosicky, Wilshere and Coquelin come back the better because right now Walcott, Ramsey & OX would be nowhere near my starting XI, we have a title to win, we haven't got time to babysit any of these guys back into form!

Joel Campbell has comfortably outperformed Walcott this season and me amongst many others were calling for him to be sold not so long ago.

[Letters]

No surprises here, Chelsea beat us again, a Chelsea side struggling for results this season still come here and beat us at home, this is really embarrassing and proves we lack the bottle and the collapse we always see is happening again.
And, just as you predicted, City are getting better and better and are now miles above us :(


A decent team would walk this league, teams are literally trying to hand the title to us and still we bottle it....what's left to say?
Plenty. There's loads of games left, we're level on points with the team you keep crowning Champions elect.
I'm very pissed off about today's result but it would be stupid to throw in the towel just yet.

[selassie]

And, just as you predicted, City are getting better and better and are now miles above us :(


Plenty. There's loads of games left, we're level on points with the team you keep crowning Champions elect.
I'm very pissed off about today's result but it would be stupid to throw in the towel just yet.

I'm more worried about Spurs at the moment TBH, they've been slowly going about their business closing the gap on us, they have fared very well in the big games too, they haven't really lost one yet, they really worry me, they are solid at the back, have a very good keeper, solid in Midfield and in Kane & Alli have two superb young players.

It scares me that they could be the dark horses this year because I don't really see a big weakness in their team.

[Niall_Quinn]

And, just as you predicted, City are getting better and better and are now miles above us :(


Plenty. There's loads of games left, we're level on points with the team you keep crowning Champions elect.
I'm very pissed off about today's result but it would be stupid to throw in the towel just yet.

That's the point. The poor old fans will keep believing right up until the maths call time on the latest non-challenge. It's the manager that throws the towel in, not the fans. The fans want a bit of ambition. The right players brought in for all those millions banked. A bit of ambition on the pitch. Positive tactics. A 100% effort in each game. But Wenger throws the towel in when he sits there watching the holes develop in the squad and does nothing. He throws the towel in when he sets us up with that tippy tappy negative shit that has achieved nothing over a decade and has plunged our football standard into the shitter. He throws in the towel when we are winning at Liverpool. He throws in the towel and settles for not being hurt by Stoke. He throws in the towel with his bollocks subs against the gypos.

It certainly isn't time to throw in the towel, so have a word with Wenger would you?

[Maestro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ2hy2nEBfM

[Alpha]

It is Wengers fault! He bought Mertesacker and played Flamini instead of Elneny! Why did he fucking buy him! If the Scum pip us to the leage (and yes, it's highly possible),Wumger should be hung from the nearest tree!!

We will win the league and all will be forgotten and forgiven. Mark my words.

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/attachments/foyer/1989d1052428732-arsenal-sacks-venger-mss.jpg

[Maestro]

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/attachments/foyer/1989d1052428732-arsenal-sacks-venger-mss.jpg

Ali :bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ2hy2nEBfM

Top Four Trophy :bow:

[Xhaka Can’t]

We will win the league and all will be forgotten and forgiven. Mark my words.

Phew!

Do you think we'll finally successfully defend our title next season?

We should probably start a poll.

[Niall_Quinn]

Phew!

Do you think we'll finally successfully defend our title next season?

We should probably start a poll.

911 was an outside job!

[Niall_Quinn]

LOL - we were piss poor today but the Daily Mail have taken things to their usual extreme.

ARSENAL (4-2-3-1): Cech 6, Bellerin 6, Koscielny 4.5, Mertesacker 2, Monreal 4, Flamini 4, Ramsey 5, Campbell 5 (Sanchez 57mins, 6), Ozil 5, Walcott 5.5 (Oxlade-Chamberlain 75, 5), Giroud 4.5 (Gabriel 22, 5.5)

Monreal 4 :haha:
Campbell 5 :haha:
Giroud 4.5 and he hardly played :haha:

Walcott 5.5 :haha: :haha: :haha:

They are, of course, loving it. This is why it's a pain in the hole having to put up with Wenger. He embarrasses the club on a horribly regular basis.

[Maestro]

I found Cripps and he said


Asked for 80+ points.

I'd be happy with that whether it brings the title or not
Cripps
SE13
Posts: 23553
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:05 pm

[Niall_Quinn]

I found Cripps and he said


Asked for 80+ points.

I'd be happy with that whether it brings the title or not
Cripps
SE13
Posts: 23553
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:05 pm

Is that the same Cripps who was banned by a WUM for being a WUM?

[Maestro]

Is that the same Cripps who was banned by a WUM for being a WUM?

that very same one, got taken out by the competition. he's now wumming on Goonersworld

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ2hy2nEBfM

:haha:

[AFC Leveller]

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12645077_1043279269046445_1725866705211655681_n.jp g?oh=a11b36a5b279e9afbc0697a0d891d9de&oe=572E085C

[Letters]

I'm more worried about Spurs at the moment TBH, they've been slowly going about their business closing the gap on us, they have fared very well in the big games too, they haven't really lost one yet, they really worry me, they are solid at the back, have a very good keeper, solid in Midfield and in Kane & Alli have two superb young players.

It scares me that they could be the dark horses this year because I don't really see a big weakness in their team.

Spurs are, irritatingly, a good side right now. But they have drawn too many so far to be taken too seriously, if they can sort that out then they've got a chance.
Hold me :upset:
:hug:

[Letters]

I found Cripps
Why? :lol:

[Letters]

That's the point. The poor old fans will keep believing right up until the maths call time on the latest non-challenge.
Why shouldn't we? What's the point of watching if you don't have any hope?

The "last 10 years" argument is lazy and simplistic. I've explained why, I can't be bothered repeating it.
Players like Ozil, Sanchez and Cech could win us a title. Whether they will remains to be seen but even after this wobble we're level on points with City. To declare them Champions Elect and us no-hopers when we're level on points is ridiculous.

It's you threw in the towel after 4 games, you threw in the towel in the CL after 2. All you did early season was WUM about my "it's too early to judge" statement even though it's obviously true and has been shown to be true - we never went 10 points behind, we are in the title mix. We did qualify from the CL group. Chelsea seem to have the Indian sign over us. They've beaten us twice this year and both times had the numerical advantage, it would be nice to be able to play them, just once, with 11 players vs 11 and see what happens.

While we're in the title mix I'll believe we have a chance. If we fall out of it then yes, #WengerOut. With this squad we should be challenging. So far, we are. As pissed off as I am about yesterday's result the fact is no-one is being consistent this year, the whole league seems more competitive. A few clubs have a chance right now and we are one of them.

[AFC Leveller]

Same old story against Chelsea, we always lose to them. The manager plays the same way against them every single time, he makes the same mistakes and has the nerve to blame Costa for having Per sent off. That ball in between the CBs is so easy to play against us because Per is slow and the RB is always high up and when you come up against a tactically organized team/manager, you will be exposed. Last season at Stamford Bridge, we conceded the 2nd goal after a simple ball between the CBs opened us up and Costa was there to finish. Its the same old shit that this manager keeps producing and enough is enough.

[Globalgunner]

I am actually hoping Leicester can hold on and win it. It will show the old farts managing us and United that they dont actually know what they are doing and a team with a 1/5 of their resources can win the league right from under their noses. It may also convince a few on this forum, that Billionaire clubs are not the reason why we havent been able to win the league in 10 years (though I doubt it). Also maybe we may be able to get enough fans to kick up a fuss and prevent our old codger from signing that new contract or at least the next one being lined up after this one. If Wenger has his way. He will be here till 2022 at least.

[KSE Comedy Club]

No point protecting Elmo, the league is full of shit kickers, he'll face a new challenge every week regardless. He's played in Europe for a couple of seasons so I'm sure he's familiar with a different level of intensity and quality. Might even have played against Chelsea if he was with them when they faced Basel? But anyway, all he needs to be able to demonstrate right now is some positional awareness and he immediately becomes a better option than Flamini and Ramsey. Without even seeing him play I have faith that he won't be as braindead as either of those 2.

New players come into this league every year and make explosive impacts. Why must we always wrap our lot in cotton wool?

I agree.

The premier league isn't that fucking special that it's in another planet of football, let's be honest. PL teams get spanked regularly by most of Europe in the EL and CL the last few years.

Christ, momo was I. The team that beat Chavs in the CL so he can't be that bad!!

I'm fed up with the same old shit with Wenger, it's gone on for far too long now - there are no more excuses left for him. Pathetic.

[Globalgunner]

I agree.

The premier league isn't that fucking special that it's in another planet of football, let's be honest. PL teams get spanked regularly by most of Europe in the EL and CL the last few years.

Christ, momo was I. The team that beat Chavs in the CL so he can't be that bad!!

I'm fed up with the same old shit with Wenger, it's gone on for far too long now - there are no more excuses left for him. Pathetic.

We bought him from a team where he was playing regularly, so the excuse of not being fit is not tenable. This is another example of a manager too afraid to change what he thinks is a winning formula. We are(were) top of the league so play the same team till the wheels fall off. Its been a wenger tactic for years now. However it means that when players are now called in under an emergency, then THEY are neither fit or in sync with the rest of the team. Good managers rotate routinely to keep the team fresh and everyone on their toes.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why shouldn't we?

... IGNORED, la, la, la, block eyes, block ears, can't see this bit...

Okay, so I'll return the favour and answer JUST the first line of your response and as a reciprocal bonus I'll even change the entire context.

My answer: Well because it's just filthy and disgusting, that's why, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

[Niall_Quinn]

I am actually hoping Leicester can hold on and win it. It will show the old farts managing us and United that they dont actually know what they are doing and a team with a 1/5 of their resources can win the league right from under their noses. It may also convince a few on this forum, that Billionaire clubs are not the reason why we havent been able to win the league in 10 years (though I doubt it). Also maybe we may be able to get enough fans to kick up a fuss and prevent our old codger from signing that new contract or at least the next one being lined up after this one. If Wenger has his way. He will be here till 2022 at least.

Look, can you please not mention the last 10 years? I mean if you leave the last 10 years out and just focus on the last game, I'm sure you'll agree, this defeat is a one-off. Now we can't go crying about a random, one-time result like this can we? And what will it prove when we lose in exactly the same way to the chavs in 2017, 2018 and 2019? Those will all be one-offs too.

What you have to remember is the spirit is great and the players, especially Walcott, are giving 100%. Now how can we help it if the ref is against us and the pitch is bad and the other team opts to defend instead of letting us score?

Isn't it time to be reasonable about all this? We have injuries you know, again if you ignore the past 10 years you will see this is the first season we've had to cope with an injury crisis. Who could have predicted it? You can't just go buying adequate cover in the transfer window in case some random, one-off, injury crisis happens.

And to be absolutely fair, I'm sure there are plenty of other excuses that are entirely valid and explain why our manager has fallen victim to these random acts of God.

[Niall_Quinn]

We bought him from a team where he was playing regularly, so the excuse of not being fit is not tenable. This is another example of a manager too afraid to change what he thinks is a winning formula. We are(were) top of the league so play the same team till the wheels fall off. Its been a wenger tactic for years now. However it means that when players are now called in under an emergency, then THEY are neither fit or in sync with the rest of the team. Good managers rotate routinely to keep the team fresh and everyone on their toes.

None of those managers consistently make profits for the owners, so what's your point? I hope you're not trying to bring football into this again.

[selassie]

Spurs are, irritatingly, a good side right now. But they have drawn too many so far to be taken too seriously, if they can sort that out then they've got a chance.
Hold me :upset:
:hug:

I think we can derail their season if we win there. The good thing is we will be taking them very seriously when we face them at the Dump, by then we should have a fairly strong squad to choose from.

Make no mistake they are fully in the title race this year. :(

[Niall_Quinn]

The good thing is we will be taking them very seriously when we face them at the Dump

Finally, we're going to take a team seriously before going into a match. It could work.

[Niall_Quinn]

The Lumbering Oaf "defending" against Costa.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/24/20/article-3414594-3089572E00000578-614_636x382.jpg

[Letters]

Look, can you please not mention the last 10 years? I mean if you leave the last 10 years out and... :blah:
:lol: And you have the audacity to call me a WUM...

[selassie]

I am actually hoping Leicester can hold on and win it. It will show the old farts managing us and United that they dont actually know what they are doing and a team with a 1/5 of their resources can win the league right from under their noses. It may also convince a few on this forum, that Billionaire clubs are not the reason why we havent been able to win the league in 10 years (though I doubt it). Also maybe we may be able to get enough fans to kick up a fuss and prevent our old codger from signing that new contract or at least the next one being lined up after this one. If Wenger has his way. He will be here till 2022 at least.

:gp:

Yep, say what you like about Ranieri but he has a instilled a proper structure in the team at Leicester, good keeper, solid at the back, strong in Midfield and very good offensively, he's built a solid team there, heck their squad players are pretty decent too, they come in and do a job, they know their role. Money plays a part in building a successful team and the more resources you have the better team you can build providing you buy players in the RIGHT areas, it's not about buying Attacking midfielders and sticking them all over the pitch, or buying technical players and hoping they can fill roles they clearly aren't accustomed to.

Nothing will change at Arsenal, Wenger will never have an easier chance of winning PL, he's practically being handed it and we're still making the same mistakes and wobbling.

If he doesn't win it this season he'll never win it again, quote me on that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger moaning about it:


‘Mertesacker made the challenge but I said he got Mertesacker sent off. You cannot say it’s not true.
‘In the first game he got Gabriel sent off and today he got Mertesacker sent off. It was quick and harsh. I didn’t know if Costa was offside or not or if Mertesacker touched him or not. I would have to watch it again. But a fact is the fact. I do not accuse him of anything. It’s just what happened.
‘Costa has got two players sent off in two games on our side. So he’s clever.’


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/24/22/308A47D700000578-0-image-a-110_1453673521906.jpg

So what about the 2 points from 9 Arsene? What's the excuse for that? The ref? The pitch? Costa?

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol: And you have the audacity to call me a WUM...

Why didn't Ty turn up for an interview last night? Usually he waits outside the ground until 1am to fawn over Wenger as he leaves. But nothing from him last night.

What did he tell you when he got home?

[selassie]

Wenger moaning about it:




http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/24/22/308A47D700000578-0-image-a-110_1453673521906.jpg

So what about the 2 points from 9 Arsene? What's the excuse for that? The ref? The pitch? Costa?

When Wenger comes out with stuff like this it makes him look small time. We were 2nd best 11 v 11, it's not like it even changed the game, if anything we improved with 10.

[Letters]

3/10, at best :good: (@NQ)

[Marc Overmars]

Costa is a bastard but it was a fairly obvious red card. Mert knew he was left for dead and took a hopeful swipe, you cannot expect to stay on the pitch if you don't get the ball making a challenge like that as the last man.

[Munchies]

The prick dived but Merts gave him the chance to dive. At least he's missing for 3 games now, Gabriel is better than him.

Also, why aren't we playing ElNeny?

We signed him because he was an upgrade on Flamini, but it seems Wenger will keep playing Flamini until Coquelin comes back. We needed someone like El Neny the other day, someone who has the legs and is physical. Our midfield is too weak with Flamini/Ramsey. Flamini will probably leave at the end of the season, but it seems Wenger will only give El Neny sub appearances at this juncture.

El Neny doesn't need match practice, the guy has been training for a while and would instantly be an upgrade on what we have

[Özim]

Trouble is with these cheap unknowns is there's no pressure to play them, if we'd signed someone established they wouldn't just accept sitting on the bench behind the likes of Flamini. Eleny will probably just be happy he's at Arsenal so Wenger can play him in 6 months or whenever he feels he's ready.

The manager doesn't really understand the concept of improving the team, he just signs pet projects because he feels like it most of the time. Of course he wasn't going to sign Vidal, because he'd actually have to play him if he had signed him, by signing these lesser known players he knows he can play them at leisure.

[Letters]

The manager doesn't really understand the concept of improving the team.
:lol:

[Power n Glory]

The Lumbering Oaf "defending" against Costa.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/24/20/article-3414594-3089572E00000578-614_636x382.jpg

I may need to see the replays on that one again but why isn’t Kos the one tracking those runs? We all know Merts doesn’t have the pace and from that pic he’s probably looking for Kos. Shambolic defending all round.

[Özim]

When Wenger comes out with stuff like this it makes him look small time. We were 2nd best 11 v 11, it's not like it even changed the game, if anything we improved with 10.

He is small time let's be honest, just look at the way he deals with interviews after poor results, the way he handles our transfer dealings, most of the players he signs and his tactics.

Not the behaviour of a top manager at the top of his game, he should be royally p*ssed off with the result and the performance of his team in the last 3 games, instead he's just making excuses, he's mr excuses, he only ever see's what's going on when it's a decision against his team.

This game should have been done and dusted by the 2nd half anyhow, Koscielny barged Cesc out of the way in the penalty area which was a dead cert penalty, decisions didn't go against us today, it could have been worse.

[Özim]

I may need to see the replays on that one again but why isn’t Kos the one tracking those runs? We all know Merts doesn’t have the pace and from that pic he’s probably looking for Kos. Shambolic defending all round.

Koscielny is having a bit of a mare at the moment, mistakes creeping up, was lucky not to concede a penalty and doesn't try make up for the defficiencies of his CB partner as well top CB's should, he's had it pretty good but I think he's overrated for sure, not saying he's not a good defender, he's just not the world beater some people claim he is.

[IBK]

:gp:

Yep, say what you like about Ranieri but he has a instilled a proper structure in the team at Leicester, good keeper, solid at the back, strong in Midfield and very good offensively, he's built a solid team there, heck their squad players are pretty decent too, they come in and do a job, they know their role. Money plays a part in building a successful team and the more resources you have the better team you can build providing you buy players in the RIGHT areas, it's not about buying Attacking midfielders and sticking them all over the pitch, or buying technical players and hoping they can fill roles they clearly aren't accustomed to.

Nothing will change at Arsenal, Wenger will never have an easier chance of winning PL, he's practically being handed it and we're still making the same mistakes and wobbling.

If he doesn't win it this season he'll never win it again, quote me on that.

Ranieri understands three basics about a successful team. 1) Make sure your players are motivated and have self belief. 2) Play to their strengths and have players play regularly in their best positions. 3) Team balance is vastly more important than individual technical ability.

The sending off was the most important factor in yesterday's defeat, and IMHO its pointless trying to blame Wenger for this by criticising his transfer policy. We all know that his gambles re player purchases have come back to bite him time and time again. But his failure to address the basics have affected us much more. It feels as though we are CONSTANTLY in the middle of an experiment in which our manager tinkers with our team and is more interested in 'developing' players than letting them play their best/natural game. This is what frustrates me - and why it feels so frustrating that we are not walking the worst EPL for years.

[Power n Glory]

Koscielny is having a bit of a mare at the moment, mistakes creeping up, was lucky not to concede a penalty and doesn't try make up for the defficiencies of his CB partner as well top CB's should, he's had it pretty good but I think he's overrated for sure, not saying he's not a good defender, he's just not the world beater some people claim he is.

He's not doing well. He was supposed to be marking Costa for that goal we conceded as well. He needs to sort it out. He's not switched on.

[Bumble]

we are obviously all very annoyed about this result. but we are still only 3 points off top. City are just cruising I just think they are really not that focused on the league this year, they have a good draw in the CL and that will be the main aim. Especially with a manager that wont be there next season. This is our season but I do think we will have to beat Leicester in a few games time.

we didn't look like scoring other than perhaps from a bit of pinball in the Chelsea box. The sending off was right, we were lucky not to give a penalty away but it was on Fabregas so fair enough.

Southampton are on a good run at the moment so we will see

[Letters]

He is small time let's be honest, just look at the way he deals with interviews after poor results.
Unlike Mourinho of course who was a model of professionalism while presiding over Chelsea's car crash of a start to the season, blaming everyone but himself.
Your double standards are ridiculous.

[Kano]

Ranieri understands three basics about a successful team. 1) Make sure your players are motivated and have self belief. 2) Play to their strengths and have players play regularly in their best positions. 3) Team balance is vastly more important than individual technical ability.

The sending off was the most important factor in yesterday's defeat, and IMHO its pointless trying to blame Wenger for this by criticising his transfer policy. We all know that his gambles re player purchases have come back to bite him time and time again. But his failure to address the basics have affected us much more. It feels as though we are CONSTANTLY in the middle of an experiment in which our manager tinkers with our team and is more interested in 'developing' players than letting them play their best/natural game. This is what frustrates me - and why it feels so frustrating that we are not walking the worst EPL for years.
I still don’t get this assumption that we should be ‘walking’ the league or that our performance levels are not relative to averageness that surrounds us in the league. The two things are not mutually exclusive. The league has been declining for years, while the similarity of styles and tactics by the teams are all pretty much the same. The old clichés of ‘well next year the big boys will be back’ are of course being rolled because it’s easier to say than admitting how poor the PL is nowadays. Fergie winning the league with such an average Utd team was the first real indicator but again, he was lauded for beating real quality, when in fact, everyone else behind them was just as poor. If the league around us is poor, then by association we are also going to be just as average, which is what we’re seeing. It doesn’t devalue winning the title at all because when everyone is on the same level, you still have to be the best at that level to win it.

[Power n Glory]

I still don’t get this assumption that we should be ‘walking’ the league or that our performance levels are not relative to averageness that surrounds us in the league. The two things are not mutually exclusive. The league has been declining for years, while the similarity of styles and tactics by the teams are all pretty much the same. The old clichés of ‘well next year the big boys will be back’ are of course being rolled because it’s easier to say than admitting how poor the PL is nowadays. Fergie winning the league with such an average Utd team was the first real indicator but again, he was lauded for beating real quality, when in fact, everyone else behind them was just as poor. If the league around us is poor, then by association we are also going to be just as average, which is what we’re seeing. It doesn’t devalue winning the title at all because when everyone is on the same level, you still have to be the best at that level to win it.

I really don't get what you're talking about. It's not making sense to me. I think teams like City, Chelsea and Utd have fallen off but the teams below have gotten better. Much better. I'd understand your point if you were saying the standards have gotten better below us so that's why we're not walking the league. But saying it's gotten worse, pointing to Fergie's league wins with an average team as indication of the league getting worse.....that doesn't make sense to me. This is the worst Chelsea have been in recent years but we still lost.

[Niall_Quinn]

I still don’t get this assumption that we should be ‘walking’ the league or that our performance levels are not relative to averageness that surrounds us in the league. The two things are not mutually exclusive. The league has been declining for years, while the similarity of styles and tactics by the teams are all pretty much the same. The old clichés of ‘well next year the big boys will be back’ are of course being rolled because it’s easier to say than admitting how poor the PL is nowadays. Fergie winning the league with such an average Utd team was the first real indicator but again, he was lauded for beating real quality, when in fact, everyone else behind them was just as poor. If the league around us is poor, then by association we are also going to be just as average, which is what we’re seeing. It doesn’t devalue winning the title at all because when everyone is on the same level, you still have to be the best at that level to win it.

It's true, the standard is low. Some managers have stepped up and taken advantage of this, at Leicester, West Ham, Watford, Palace, others have been badly exposed, Maureen, van Gaal, Pellegrini to be fair (although the gypos effectively sacking him without actually sacking him can't help) and of course Wenger which is no surprise at all because he'll always do the absolute minimum to achieve the averageness we have come to expect.

These highly paid managerial geniuses have been surfing on past financial discrepancies between the top clubs and the rest. Now that even more money has come into the game so that the little guys can afford a slightly better class of player we have seen the gap disappearing. Wenger moaned about the chavs and the gypos but studiously avoided the fact we had a huge advantage over the clubs below us, which is what kept us perpetually in the top 4. We've been playing mostly shit football for years now, but with a deeper squad we've managed to keep the likes of the spuds off our backs. And the spud and Liverpool transfer policies have been a joke that assisted us too.

If Wenger had anything about him at all he'd be able to create a solid team and squad and match his tactics to the league he's playing in - just as Ranieri and Billic have done. We should be in a great position right now. 10 years trying to find the right squad and balance, players like Alexis, Cech and Ozil coming in. But still we are pretty much where we have always been, in the top 4, playing frustratingly inconsistent football, making all the usual stupid mistakes. A couple of points thrown away against Liverpool here, a non-performance at Southampton, supreme negativity at Stoke, being totally unprepared on the opening day - offset against the rare decent performance and result, with just a little bit more we could be well established at the top now. But Wenger doesn't do a little bit more, he does average. Bang on average.

That said, it could be a lot worse. Cech has certainly saved us points over and above what we could have expected from the goons we've had in goal in recent years.

It really is a poor show from this manager. All his resources, the players at his disposal, the fact his main rivals are in turmoil. This guy Wenger isn't a top manager, he's not even a decent manager any more in football terms. Even the chavs, as shitty as they were, could press their advantage last season. And as you say, shit league or not, Ferguson did the business with a shower of shite. Wenger isn't at that level, or at least what happens on the pitch does not have his full focus.

It has all just got so tired.

[Niall_Quinn]

Unlike Mourinho of course who was a model of professionalism while presiding over Chelsea's car crash of a start to the season, blaming everyone but himself.
Your double standards are ridiculous.

What's Maureen got to do with it?

Do you get that we are talking about Arsenal?

[Alpha]

Having seem Ramsey and Flamini over the last three games I'd pick myself and you tbf. But that's not the point. As I have already said, it's Wenger's fault we are short there, we knew we had the gap and he ignored it. As usual. But if that's all you have left then you'd better get a performance out of that pair and that comes from having a plan on how to deal with the opposition. Mikel, Gash and Matic vs two disciplined midfielders and we have a prayer. The former three and a big hole and we have no chance. It's not just the selection it's how you then use those players. No way were those two so reckless without the blessing of Wenger.

You may be right to a certain extent but we are talking about responsible adults. Wenger made a big mistake by not thinking what he could do in case of injury to Coquelin . He put himself in a shit position on having just Ramsey and Flamini . But the pair are experienced enough to take their own responsibilities . Now that Arsene has bought Elneny and Coquelin is on his way back, let's see if he would continue to use the same rubbish.

[Niall_Quinn]

I may need to see the replays on that one again but why isn’t Kos the one tracking those runs? We all know Merts doesn’t have the pace and from that pic he’s probably looking for Kos. Shambolic defending all round.

Why are we even starting this guy? We have a perfectly good CB on the bench. For weeks I ave been saying this guy will cost us when it matters, not because I have a deep understanding of the game but because it's bloody obvious. If you were up against him, wouldn't you target him as the weak link? Kos hasn't been playing well but do we really expect him to play both CB spots?

Wenger really is insufferable. Gabriel could have an extra 20 games under his belt now and be well established in the back four. I don't care what Wenger sees in training, nothing could be as worrying as watching Mertesacker on the pitch.

[Alpha]

Why are we even starting this guy? We have a perfectly good CB on the bench. For weeks I ave been saying this guy will cost us when it matters, not because I have a deep understanding of the game but because it's bloody obvious. If you were up against him, wouldn't you target him as the weak link? Kos hasn't been playing well but do we really expect him to play both CB spots?

Wenger really is insufferable. Gabriel could have an extra 20 games under his belt now and be well established in the back four. I don't care what Wenger sees in training, nothing could be as worrying as watching Mertesacker on the pitch.

If you don't care about what Wenger sees in training how can you assess the situation and make a fair point ? For a player to be selected in the starting line-up , it depends on his physical and mental fitness and more importantly on his performances in training . A player who does not inspire his manage's confidence in training is more likely to warm the bench .

[Özim]

Unlike Mourinho of course who was a model of professionalism while presiding over Chelsea's car crash of a start to the season, blaming everyone but himself.
Your double standards are ridiculous.

Who is talking about Chelsea? :unsure:

I'm just talking about our small time manager who everytime we get a poor results deflects the blame onto anything but his players or himself, he lives in a world where he and his players are always the victims.....BOOOOHOOOO poor old unlucky Wenger if only all decisions when for him and his team we wouldn't be 2% away from domination BOOOOHOOOO. :upset:

[Letters]

:lol: QED.

[Kano]

It's true, the standard is low. Some managers have stepped up and taken advantage of this, at Leicester, West Ham, Watford, Palace, others have been badly exposed, Maureen, van Gaal, Pellegrini to be fair (although the gypos effectively sacking him without actually sacking him can't help) and of course Wenger which is no surprise at all because he'll always do the absolute minimum to achieve the averageness we have come to expect.

These highly paid managerial geniuses have been surfing on past financial discrepancies between the top clubs and the rest. Now that even more money has come into the game so that the little guys can afford a slightly better class of player we have seen the gap disappearing. Wenger moaned about the chavs and the gypos but studiously avoided the fact we had a huge advantage over the clubs below us, which is what kept us perpetually in the top 4. We've been playing mostly shit football for years now, but with a deeper squad we've managed to keep the likes of the spuds off our backs. And the spud and Liverpool transfer policies have been a joke that assisted us too.

If Wenger had anything about him at all he'd be able to create a solid team and squad and match his tactics to the league he's playing in - just as Ranieri and Billic have done. We should be in a great position right now. 10 years trying to find the right squad and balance, players like Alexis, Cech and Ozil coming in. But still we are pretty much where we have always been, in the top 4, playing frustratingly inconsistent football, making all the usual stupid mistakes. A couple of points thrown away against Liverpool here, a non-performance at Southampton, supreme negativity at Stoke, being totally unprepared on the opening day - offset against the rare decent performance and result, with just a little bit more we could be well established at the top now. But Wenger doesn't do a little bit more, he does average. Bang on average.

That said, it could be a lot worse. Cech has certainly saved us points over and above what we could have expected from the goons we've had in goal in recent years.

It really is a poor show from this manager. All his resources, the players at his disposal, the fact his main rivals are in turmoil. This guy Wenger isn't a top manager, he's not even a decent manager any more in football terms. Even the chavs, as shitty as they were, could press their advantage last season. And as you say, shit league or not, Ferguson did the business with a shower of shite. Wenger isn't at that level, or at least what happens on the pitch does not have his full focus.

It has all just got so tired.

What the ‘smaller’ teams have done is become better organised but what are seeing is West Ham and Leicester who are the ones who have the legs to last, as Palace and Watford have levelled off. I wouldn’t say the overall level of the players in the teams below have improved - their spending certainly hasn’t increased massively year on year – but how they play as a unit has definitely changed. Every team now defends together, you regularly see every team in the league bringing ten behind the ball, attackers, wingers have no room to be luxury add-ons, the demand now is you get back and pack out the midfield and hit on the counter. Leicester are doing this better than anyone because they have no pretensions about their ability.

Wenger is matched with league he is in, which is why our results are just as frustrating as everyone else’s. Let’s not forget we hammered the champions-elect Leicester 5-2 at their place, while were battered by Southampton and City thumped at Tottenham. The consistency is the inconsistency in the league, which comes down to teams effectively cancelling each other out. We’ve all talked about how the advantages Wenger once held with scouting/diet have disappeared because of the abundance of information discussed and passed within the game. It can only go so far. There are a finite amount of ways to prepare and play the game and hold real advantages now. Everyone has access to everything at the highest level. Money can only make so much of a difference anymore. The discrepancies between the teams now are near enough non-existent which is why these fucking clichés need to be buried once and for all. But of course they won’t be because that requires effort and thought. Too much to ask for I know.

[Power n Glory]

Why are we even starting this guy? We have a perfectly good CB on the bench. For weeks I ave been saying this guy will cost us when it matters, not because I have a deep understanding of the game but because it's bloody obvious. If you were up against him, wouldn't you target him as the weak link? Kos hasn't been playing well but do we really expect him to play both CB spots?

Wenger really is insufferable. Gabriel could have an extra 20 games under his belt now and be well established in the back four. I don't care what Wenger sees in training, nothing could be as worrying as watching Mertesacker on the pitch.

Merts had a complete brain fart with that challenge but Kos should be switched on as well to track Costa if the ball is played behind. They used to be a real good understanding between the pair.

As for Gabriel, he got himself sent off in the first game. He shouldn't have lost his head and again, I wasn't impressed with Kos getting man handled and looking like a complete wimp.

I'd like to have a seen a bit more of this from our more experienced players. The lack of communication and being more authoritative just isn't in the spin of this team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRScm5kZTaY

I don't think Gabriel would have been caught out in the same way Merts was but I don't have faith in that team in that combo either. We conceded with them both on the pitch and Kos was lucky not to give away a penalty as well. He should have been tight on Costa for that first goal. I think we'll need a couple more CB signings in a couple of seasons.

[Alpha]

5 is bad for a winger that creates next to nothing. Walcott has been really poor this season make no mistake about that. His poor performances have been ignored to an extent because we've been top or thereabouts pretty much all season, now the going is getting tough the likes of him, Ramsey & Oxlade are getting rightly called out for under performing, pretty much every game too.

The sooner the likes of Welbeck, Rosicky, Wilshere and Coquelin come back the better because right now Walcott, Ramsey & OX would be nowhere near my starting XI, we have a title to win, we haven't got time to babysit any of these guys back into form!

Joel Campbell has comfortably outperformed Walcott this season and me amongst many others were calling for him to be sold not so long ago.

I agree with you for Joe Campbell and Coquelin as top performers . Wilshere and Rosicky to an extent bar their injuries . But Welbeck is yet to convince me .

[selassie]

Ranieri understands three basics about a successful team. 1) Make sure your players are motivated and have self belief. 2) Play to their strengths and have players play regularly in their best positions. 3) Team balance is vastly more important than individual technical ability.

The sending off was the most important factor in yesterday's defeat, and IMHO its pointless trying to blame Wenger for this by criticising his transfer policy. We all know that his gambles re player purchases have come back to bite him time and time again. But his failure to address the basics have affected us much more. It feels as though we are CONSTANTLY in the middle of an experiment in which our manager tinkers with our team and is more interested in 'developing' players than letting them play their best/natural game. This is what frustrates me - and why it feels so frustrating that we are not walking the worst EPL for years.

I agree IBK, if Wenger wants to win this title then he's going to need to setup the team to be a little more pragmatic, we have no time for "developing" players by game time or "playing players through bad form", Wenger needs to become more ruthless and start addressing the issues in the team, he needs to start with Central Midfield, ditch Flamini, drop Walcott, drop Mertesacker, this team needs freshening up now.

Our returning players have come at a good time because I hope and expect to see changes.

Wenger also needs to manage games better and set up the team to negate the strengths of his opponents.

[Power n Glory]

Walcott, Merts, Flamini and Ramsey should all lose their places.

Sanchez, Gabriel, Coquelin (if fit), Elneny should replace them.

[Özim]

If you don't care about what Wenger sees in training how can you assess the situation and make a fair point ? For a player to be selected in the starting line-up , it depends on his physical and mental fitness and more importantly on his performances in training . A player who does not inspire his manage's confidence in training is more likely to warm the bench .


Frankly it's got little to do with what happens in training (a slow oaf in a match is also a slow oaf in training, moreover what you see in a match is far more important than some friendly knock around in the park with some friends) and a lot to do with Wenger's tendency for favouritism, he's always had certain players he'll play before anyone else, seems the German barge is one of those.

Gabriel may not be the answer but he's a better bet than the lanky German who is slow and ponderous and adds little to our team, I'd prefer to give a guy we signed a while ago a fair crack of the whip to see if he's up to the task and if he isn't then we can go out and find someone who is.

[Globalgunner]

Gabriel was a top flight defender before he came to us. It was his sterling performances for Villareal that made us buy him. The manager of Villareal lamented sadly when he left, apparently he was sold without his blessing. That is part of the Wenger problem. Buys a quality player and keeps him behind a poor player because of seniority. Players like Kane, Alli would never get a chance here as they would be stuck with the juniors or kept perpetually on the bench watching the big boys screw up year in year out. Seems to me the more mediocre you are the better your chances are of staying in the team. You would have to be a calamity of Eboue or Gervinho proportions to get hooked in this club. Even then the manager will blame the fans for breaking the players confidence.
He does it because he can get away with it. 4th place again this year will be spun as a mark of consistency. Not of blowing a gilt edged opportunity.

[Niall_Quinn]

If you don't care about what Wenger sees in training how can you assess the situation and make a fair point ? For a player to be selected in the starting line-up , it depends on his physical and mental fitness and more importantly on his performances in training . A player who does not inspire his manage's confidence in training is more likely to warm the bench .


What about the mental fitness of the manager? Do we just assume Wenger knows what he's doing, in light of the performance yesterday for example? He keeps doing the same thing and we keep churning out the same result. Didn't somebody once say that's the definition of insanity?

[Dein-machine]

Seems like some of you fickle lot are back on the Wenger out campaign now after ridiculously spouting about our great manager having us top of the league. I get called a miserable bastard by the likes of Letters but at least I have been consistent in my assessment of our season. We have the players to play like we did at home to Man Utd & thrash most teams. We choose not to. Our manager chooses not too. He chooses to keep faith with players like Merts, Flamini, Ramsey & Walcott when they are simply not good enough. He has seen what quicker direct football can do for us with pace up front but he chooses to tippy tappy & try to play on the counter. His decision making is child like. For example, yesterday 1-0 down obvioulsy needing to score to get back in the game - is this more likely with Sanchez on the pitch. Simple answer YES or NO. If YES, which is what I'd expect most of us with a few brain cells would say - then why not do it a half time when he has 45 mins to make a difference. What did leaving Campbell on for the 1st 25 mins of the 2nd half do for us?
I am only surprised at how some on here are so upset with results like these. For me its simple, when you know its going to happen its easier to deal with. The last 3 games sum us up under Wenger - predictable, uninspiring & toothless. get used to it guys - nothing will change whilst he's in charge.

[IBK]

I still don’t get this assumption that we should be ‘walking’ the league or that our performance levels are not relative to averageness that surrounds us in the league. The two things are not mutually exclusive. The league has been declining for years, while the similarity of styles and tactics by the teams are all pretty much the same. The old clichés of ‘well next year the big boys will be back’ are of course being rolled because it’s easier to say than admitting how poor the PL is nowadays. Fergie winning the league with such an average Utd team was the first real indicator but again, he was lauded for beating real quality, when in fact, everyone else behind them was just as poor. If the league around us is poor, then by association we are also going to be just as average, which is what we’re seeing. It doesn’t devalue winning the title at all because when everyone is on the same level, you still have to be the best at that level to win it.

It's very simple. We are perennial top four finishers. 2 of the the teams we have tended to finish behind have had either poor (Manure) or shockingly poor (Chavs) seasons by their standards. They have both suffered a lot of disruption on either the managerial or the playing side. The other team - Citeh - have been astonishingly inconsistent by their standards, and it is clear that they too have been disrupted by speculation about a managerial change. Of the other 'traditional' also rans - we have Liverpool who are in transition, and have not featured as a threat; Everton - who have been disappointing; and Spurs - a team that in terms of stability are nearest to us.

By contrast - we enjoy the greatest stability of any team in the EPL, and Wenger has enjoyed the luxury of a lot of time - years in most cases - to work with his players and his system.

Next - the quality of players at our disposal. We are fond of bleating about those clubs with greater resources than our own, but Citeh aside those clubs have been taken pretty much out of the picture this season. And we have considerably greater resources; have a bigger and better squad, and a higher wage bill than most of the rest of the league. Our players are technically better than most other teams, and on paper we should beat most of them. Of course this is football, and there will be surprise results - but it is facetious to argue that over a period of time a stronger team, and squad should not prevail.

Then let's look at the players we have brought in - at huge cost in a couple of cases. We were top four finishers before Ozil and Sanchez joined Arsenal. They are both world class players - yet there has been no demonstrable change in terms of overall points won since they arrived and bedded in. To them we added Cech - the world class keeper who has already been worth quite a few points this season on his own. You would have thought that with 3 genuine world class players of the type we have not had for many seasons we would be stronger as a team - not be sinking to the mediocrity of the rest.

I do not expect to win every game. But given the factors above, I would have fully expected us to improve on our level this season - rather than to follow the rest. I do not understand your suggestion that because everyone else is mediocre, we will inevitably be mediocre too. It just doesn't make sense. And what's more - if that is really the case then we are about as far away from winners as its possible to be.

I think it is obvious that this season above all others is our best opportunity to win the league. And we should be winning it by some distance if we look at the number of average performances and needlessly dropped points we have seen from Arsenal.

I have never suggested that if we do win the league it will somehow be worth less. I don't subscribe to that view - as a title is a title and nothing more needs to be said. But we are doing our best to squander a golden opportunity to do so.

[Dein-machine]

What about the mental fitness of the manager? Do we just assume Wenger knows what he's doing, in light of the performance yesterday for example? He keeps doing the same thing and we keep churning out the same result. Didn't somebody once say that's the definition of insanity?

its what I said months ago - nobody is better at their job when there past retirement age as opposed to when they were 45. Maybe he is losing his marbles but nobody at the club has the balls to bring it up. Would explain alot about his decision making though.

[Kano]

It's very simple. We are perennial top four finishers. 2 of the the teams we have tended to finish behind have had either poor (Manure) or shockingly poor (Chavs) seasons by their standards. They have both suffered a lot of disruption on either the managerial or the playing side. The other team - Citeh - have been astonishingly inconsistent by their standards, and it is clear that they too have been disrupted by speculation about a managerial change. Of the other 'traditional' also rans - we have Liverpool who are in transition, and have not featured as a threat; Everton - who have been disappointing; and Spurs - a team that in terms of stability are nearest to us.

By contrast - we enjoy the greatest stability of any team in the EPL, and Wenger has enjoyed the luxury of a lot of time - years in most cases - to work with his players and his system.

Next - the quality of players at our disposal. We are fond of bleating about those clubs with greater resources than our own, but Citeh aside those clubs have been taken pretty much out of the picture this season. And we have considerably greater resources; have a bigger and better squad, and a higher wage bill than most of the rest of the league. Our players are technically better than most other teams, and on paper we should beat most of them. Of course this is football, and there will be surprise results - but it is facetious to argue that over a period of time a stronger team, and squad should not prevail.

Then let's look at the players we have brought in - at huge cost in a couple of cases. We were top four finishers before Ozil and Sanchez joined Arsenal. They are both world class players - yet there has been no demonstrable change in terms of overall points won since they arrived and bedded in. To them we added Cech - the world class keeper who has already been worth quite a few points this season on his own. You would have thought that with 3 genuine world class players of the type we have not had for many seasons we would be stronger as a team - not be sinking to the mediocrity of the rest.

I do not expect to win every game. But given the factors above, I would have fully expected us to improve on our level this season - rather than to follow the rest. I do not understand your suggestion that because everyone else is mediocre, we will inevitably be mediocre too. It just doesn't make sense. And what's more - if that is really the case then we are about as far away from winners as its possible to be.

I think it is obvious that this season above all others is our best opportunity to win the league. And we should be winning it by some distance if we look at the number of average performances and needlessly dropped points we have seen from Arsenal.

I have never suggested that if we do win the league it will somehow be worth less. I don't subscribe to that view - as a title is a title and nothing more needs to be said. But we are doing our best to squander a golden opportunity to do so.

Yes it is our best chance to win the league in a long time. But by some distance? No, that’s based on outdated clichéd ideas of where the game is in this country right now. We have maintained our level from previous seasons, if you look at the points season on season, we’re pretty much on a par. We do not exist in a vacuum. The quality of the league remains relative no matter who you are talking about – City, Utd, Arsenal, Leicester – and so the performance levels of all the teams – including ours – will be affected. So we remain the same, rather than improving and everyone else has gradually declined year on year. It hasn’t suddenly occurred for one freak season. It's easy to find excuses for other teams rather than our own but I bet on fan forums everywhere, the reverse is taking place.

[selassie]

It's very simple. We are perennial top four finishers. 2 of the the teams we have tended to finish behind have had either poor (Manure) or shockingly poor (Chavs) seasons by their standards. They have both suffered a lot of disruption on either the managerial or the playing side. The other team - Citeh - have been astonishingly inconsistent by their standards, and it is clear that they too have been disrupted by speculation about a managerial change. Of the other 'traditional' also rans - we have Liverpool who are in transition, and have not featured as a threat; Everton - who have been disappointing; and Spurs - a team that in terms of stability are nearest to us.

By contrast - we enjoy the greatest stability of any team in the EPL, and Wenger has enjoyed the luxury of a lot of time - years in most cases - to work with his players and his system.

Next - the quality of players at our disposal. We are fond of bleating about those clubs with greater resources than our own, but Citeh aside those clubs have been taken pretty much out of the picture this season. And we have considerably greater resources; have a bigger and better squad, and a higher wage bill than most of the rest of the league. Our players are technically better than most other teams, and on paper we should beat most of them. Of course this is football, and there will be surprise results - but it is facetious to argue that over a period of time a stronger team, and squad should not prevail.

Then let's look at the players we have brought in - at huge cost in a couple of cases. We were top four finishers before Ozil and Sanchez joined Arsenal. They are both world class players - yet there has been no demonstrable change in terms of overall points won since they arrived and bedded in. To them we added Cech - the world class keeper who has already been worth quite a few points this season on his own. You would have thought that with 3 genuine world class players of the type we have not had for many seasons we would be stronger as a team - not be sinking to the mediocrity of the rest.

I do not expect to win every game. But given the factors above, I would have fully expected us to improve on our level this season - rather than to follow the rest. I do not understand your suggestion that because everyone else is mediocre, we will inevitably be mediocre too. It just doesn't make sense. And what's more - if that is really the case then we are about as far away from winners as its possible to be.

I think it is obvious that this season above all others is our best opportunity to win the league. And we should be winning it by some distance if we look at the number of average performances and needlessly dropped points we have seen from Arsenal.

I have never suggested that if we do win the league it will somehow be worth less. I don't subscribe to that view - as a title is a title and nothing more needs to be said. But we are doing our best to squander a golden opportunity to do so.

:gp:

Top shelf post this one.

[Letters]

Seems like some of you fickle lot are back on the Wenger out campaign now after ridiculously spouting about our great manager having us top of the league.
It's not fickle to change your mind about things over the course of a season, all teams have good and bad patches during a season and it is perfectly sensible for people's moods and opinions to be swayed by them.

My only consistent thought is that if we don't challenge for the title then Wenger should go. My feelings about our ability to do so vary over time. I don't understand why some people value a constant opinion so highly as if it makes sense to believe the same thing no matter what happens.

[Power n Glory]

It's very simple. We are perennial top four finishers. 2 of the the teams we have tended to finish behind have had either poor (Manure) or shockingly poor (Chavs) seasons by their standards. They have both suffered a lot of disruption on either the managerial or the playing side. The other team - Citeh - have been astonishingly inconsistent by their standards, and it is clear that they too have been disrupted by speculation about a managerial change. Of the other 'traditional' also rans - we have Liverpool who are in transition, and have not featured as a threat; Everton - who have been disappointing; and Spurs - a team that in terms of stability are nearest to us.

By contrast - we enjoy the greatest stability of any team in the EPL, and Wenger has enjoyed the luxury of a lot of time - years in most cases - to work with his players and his system.

Next - the quality of players at our disposal. We are fond of bleating about those clubs with greater resources than our own, but Citeh aside those clubs have been taken pretty much out of the picture this season. And we have considerably greater resources; have a bigger and better squad, and a higher wage bill than most of the rest of the league. Our players are technically better than most other teams, and on paper we should beat most of them. Of course this is football, and there will be surprise results - but it is facetious to argue that over a period of time a stronger team, and squad should not prevail.

Then let's look at the players we have brought in - at huge cost in a couple of cases. We were top four finishers before Ozil and Sanchez joined Arsenal. They are both world class players - yet there has been no demonstrable change in terms of overall points won since they arrived and bedded in. To them we added Cech - the world class keeper who has already been worth quite a few points this season on his own. You would have thought that with 3 genuine world class players of the type we have not had for many seasons we would be stronger as a team - not be sinking to the mediocrity of the rest.

I do not expect to win every game. But given the factors above, I would have fully expected us to improve on our level this season - rather than to follow the rest. I do not understand your suggestion that because everyone else is mediocre, we will inevitably be mediocre too. It just doesn't make sense. And what's more - if that is really the case then we are about as far away from winners as its possible to be.

I think it is obvious that this season above all others is our best opportunity to win the league. And we should be winning it by some distance if we look at the number of average performances and needlessly dropped points we have seen from Arsenal.

I have never suggested that if we do win the league it will somehow be worth less. I don't subscribe to that view - as a title is a title and nothing more needs to be said. But we are doing our best to squander a golden opportunity to do so.

Similar to how I feel. :gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

My only consistent thought is that if we don't challenge for the title then Wenger should go.

Even that's open ended. What do you mean by "challenge"? Within a point, within 3, 6? In with a shout until the final game?

Given the sub-par performance of our opposition, as you like to refer to all the time, why aren't we saying he should go if he doesn't win it? What has he achieved if all he can do is "compete" with mediocrity? Isn't it time we had something better?

For me, even if he wins it he should go. His decision making process is too screwed up to benefit us when there are countless decent managers out there who could make much more rational decisions.

[selassie]

It's not fickle to change your mind about things over the course of a season, all teams have good and bad patches during a season and it is perfectly sensible for people's moods and opinions to be swayed by them.

My only consistent thought is that if we don't challenge for the title then Wenger should go. My feelings about our ability to do so vary over time. I don't understand why some people value a constant opinion so highly as if it makes sense to believe the same thing no matter what happens.

Would you be happy if we finished say 2nd behind Leicester by 1 point or say 3 points behind City and Spurs in 3rd place.

Challenging for the title should be the bare minimum, Wenger has he has all the tools he needs to challenge year in year out irrespective of our rivals, it's gone way past that stage now.

This season proves beyond a shadow of a doubt it's got nothing to do with finances or what not, win or bust for me, if he doesn't win PL this season then he might aswell walk.

[Özim]

It's very simple. We are perennial top four finishers. 2 of the the teams we have tended to finish behind have had either poor (Manure) or shockingly poor (Chavs) seasons by their standards. They have both suffered a lot of disruption on either the managerial or the playing side. The other team - Citeh - have been astonishingly inconsistent by their standards, and it is clear that they too have been disrupted by speculation about a managerial change. Of the other 'traditional' also rans - we have Liverpool who are in transition, and have not featured as a threat; Everton - who have been disappointing; and Spurs - a team that in terms of stability are nearest to us.

By contrast - we enjoy the greatest stability of any team in the EPL, and Wenger has enjoyed the luxury of a lot of time - years in most cases - to work with his players and his system.

Next - the quality of players at our disposal. We are fond of bleating about those clubs with greater resources than our own, but Citeh aside those clubs have been taken pretty much out of the picture this season. And we have considerably greater resources; have a bigger and better squad, and a higher wage bill than most of the rest of the league. Our players are technically better than most other teams, and on paper we should beat most of them. Of course this is football, and there will be surprise results - but it is facetious to argue that over a period of time a stronger team, and squad should not prevail.

Then let's look at the players we have brought in - at huge cost in a couple of cases. We were top four finishers before Ozil and Sanchez joined Arsenal. They are both world class players - yet there has been no demonstrable change in terms of overall points won since they arrived and bedded in. To them we added Cech - the world class keeper who has already been worth quite a few points this season on his own. You would have thought that with 3 genuine world class players of the type we have not had for many seasons we would be stronger as a team - not be sinking to the mediocrity of the rest.

I do not expect to win every game. But given the factors above, I would have fully expected us to improve on our level this season - rather than to follow the rest. I do not understand your suggestion that because everyone else is mediocre, we will inevitably be mediocre too. It just doesn't make sense. And what's more - if that is really the case then we are about as far away from winners as its possible to be.

I think it is obvious that this season above all others is our best opportunity to win the league. And we should be winning it by some distance if we look at the number of average performances and needlessly dropped points we have seen from Arsenal.

I have never suggested that if we do win the league it will somehow be worth less. I don't subscribe to that view - as a title is a title and nothing more needs to be said. But we are doing our best to squander a golden opportunity to do so.

Great, well thought out post as usual, you're spot on with the player we have signed we should be better not on a par with previous years.

[Özim]

It's not fickle to change your mind about things over the course of a season, all teams have good and bad patches during a season and it is perfectly sensible for people's moods and opinions to be swayed by them.

My only consistent thought is that if we don't challenge for the title then Wenger should go. My feelings about our ability to do so vary over time. I don't understand why some people value a constant opinion so highly as if it makes sense to believe the same thing no matter what happens.

It depends what you call challenging for the title, the way you put it has one massive get out clause, the word challenge and not win. We are challenging so by all intents and purposes you're staying he should stay.

I do think that after 10 years to change your mind during one season is not sensible, nothing has actually really changed except for the fact other teams have had a poor season, we're actually no better in reality and we've been performing poorly for a while.

[Niall_Quinn]

Similar to how I feel. :gp:

Because it's all pretty obvious stuff. Of course Wenger and the team is under performing, anyone can see that. After 10 years, way too many excuses are being made for this manager.

[Power n Glory]

Would you be happy if we finished say 2nd behind Leicester by 1 point or say 3 points behind City and Spurs in 3rd place.

Challenging for the title should be the bare minimum, Wenger has he has all the tools he needs to challenge year in year out irrespective of our rivals, it's gone way past that stage now.

This season proves beyond a shadow of a doubt it's got nothing to do with finances or what not, win or bust for me, if he doesn't win PL this season then he might aswell walk.

It would be unforgivable if Leicester pipped us to the title and Wenger would have to go. That's a good point. It shouldn't be enough just to challenge.

[LDG]

It's not fickle to change your mind about things over the course of a season, all teams have good and bad patches during a season and it is perfectly sensible for people's moods and opinions to be swayed by them.

My only consistent thought is that if we don't challenge for the title then Wenger should go. My feelings about our ability to do so vary over time. I don't understand why some people value a constant opinion so highly as if it makes sense to believe the same thing no matter what happens.

For most people, it's a constant mindset, is because they believe that Wenger should have been sacked, or politely and quietly ascended upstairs to allow some fresh blood to take over charge of the team some time ago. He should (IMO) have ducked out after the first FA Cup win.

And the reason behind that logic is the continued failure to fully realise our potential on and off the pitch. We don't need to state again the obvious failings, but it's worth pointing out that those who have continued their assertions through good and bad of the current campaign, do so based on the all too familiar pattern of previous league and ECL campaigns.

We are still failing to utilise our full potential and resource. All the other big clubs have in one season or another, fully utilised theirs, regardless of the current campaign. And because of the current campaign, Rogers got sacked, Mourinho got sacked, LVG will be sacked and Pellegrini is a dead man walking. Will Wenger go when (as in all likelihood) we fail again? Doubt it....

[Letters]

Even that's open ended. What do you mean by "challenge"? Within a point, within 3, 6? In with a shout until the final game?

Given the sub-par performance of our opposition, as you like to refer to all the time, why aren't we saying he should go if he doesn't win it? What has he achieved if all he can do is "compete" with mediocrity? Isn't it time we had something better?

For me, even if he wins it he should go. His decision making process is too screwed up to benefit us when there are countless decent managers out there who could make much more rational decisions.

I expect us to go into the City game, our penultimate game, with a shout of still winning the title. I guess that would be classed as challenging. It is a bit subjective but that would be a reasonable guide.

There is no standout team in England. A Barca or a Bayern would walk this league.
Clubs like City, Chelsea, Utd have spent silly money in the transfer market and none of them have pulled away from 'the rest'. If anything, perhaps because of new TV deals, the rest are catching up. And supposed top manager after top manager have been put in charge of some of the top clubs in England, given silly transfer budgets, and none have made them stand out from the rest or into a European power.

So while Wenger is getting on and needs replacing at some point, probably sooner rather than later, I'm not sure who you think would come along and suddenly turn us into a Barca or a Bayern. If City or Chelsea didn't do that with all their money then why would we?

[Power n Glory]

Because it's all pretty obvious stuff. Of course Wenger and the team is under performing, anyone can see that. After 10 years, way too many excuses are being made for this manager.

You say anyone can see it but for some reason that post had to be written on here. There are too many excuses floating around.

I can't see us not winning the title this year. At this stage in the season, I believe we can and should win it. But if we don't then Wenger has to walk or I'm just calling it quits until he's gone. I didn't think we'd see an opportunity like this so soon. It's very similar to the 2013/14 season but we're even stronger but our top 4 rivals are weaker.

[Power n Glory]

For most people, it's a constant mindset, is because they believe that Wenger should have been sacked, or politely and quietly ascended upstairs to allow some fresh blood to take over charge of the team some time ago. He should (IMO) have ducked out after the first FA Cup win.

And the reason behind that logic is the continued failure to fully realise our potential on and off the pitch. We don't need to state again the obvious failings, but it's worth pointing out that those who have continued their assertions through good and bad of the current campaign, do so based on the all too familiar pattern of previous league and ECL campaigns.

We are still failing to utilise our full potential and resource. All the other big clubs have in one season or another, fully utilised theirs, regardless of the current campaign. And because of the current campaign, Rogers got sacked, Mourinho got sacked, LVG will be sacked and Pellegrini is a dead man walking. Will Wenger go when (as in all likelihood) we fail again? Doubt it....

We know he won't be sacked or walk if things fall apart. It's the same pattern and if it all goes the same way this season then I need to start asking myself 'what the heck am I doing'? The pattern has to change one way or the other because I don't think I can take another season of failure. Fans need to start switching off and stop looking for the Board, Wenger or the players to suddenly react.

[Power n Glory]

I expect us to go into the City game, our penultimate game, with a shout of still winning the title. I guess that would be classed as challenging. It is a bit subjective but that would be a reasonable guide.

There is no standout team in England. A Barca or a Bayern would walk this league.
Clubs like City, Chelsea, Utd have spent silly money in the transfer market and none of them have pulled away from 'the rest'. If anything, perhaps because of new TV deals, the rest are catching up. And supposed top manager after top manager have been put in charge of some of the top clubs in England, given silly transfer budgets, and none have made them stand out from the rest or into a European power.

So while Wenger is getting on and needs replacing at some point, probably sooner rather than later, I'm not sure who you think would come along and suddenly turn us into a Barca or a Bayern. If City or Chelsea didn't do that with all their money then why would we?

That's a bit of a cop out.

[selassie]

I expect us to go into the City game, our penultimate game, with a shout of still winning the title. I guess that would be classed as challenging. It is a bit subjective but that would be a reasonable guide.

There is no standout team in England. A Barca or a Bayern would walk this league.
Clubs like City, Chelsea, Utd have spent silly money in the transfer market and none of them have pulled away from 'the rest'. If anything, perhaps because of new TV deals, the rest are catching up. And supposed top manager after top manager have been put in charge of some of the top clubs in England, given silly transfer budgets, and none have made them stand out from the rest or into a European power.

So while Wenger is getting on and needs replacing at some point, probably sooner rather than later, I'm not sure who you think would come along and suddenly turn us into a Barca or a Bayern. If City or Chelsea didn't do that with all their money then why would we?

I expect us to go into the penultimate game fighting for the title too, anything less is a failure IMO.

So you are essentially saying we can't improve upon Wenger right now?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's a massive cop out when you consider that the side leading the way in the premier league is a side far less expensively assembled than ours, and paid far less for their services.
We have dismissed them as if they aren't there, but end of January they have only lost two league games to our five
This is a team that have not had to deal with European fixtures but this is a side with a far smaller squad, and in the last month have had to play the exact same amount of games we have.

[Maestro]

what amazes me the most is how anyone cannot be offended and embarrassed by some of the shit Wenger comes out with after such results, and the annual shit served by the board members at the AGM. They are cunts, who are now taking us for mugs and for granted.

Fuck 'em and fuck loyalty to them and their mission/cause, cause it sure as hell ain't improving the football aspect at this club.

[Maestro]

what amazes me the most is how anyone cannot be offended and embarrassed by some of the shit Wenger comes out with after such results, and the annual shit served by the board members at the AGM. They are cunts, who are now taking us for mugs and for granted.

Fuck 'em and fuck loyalty to them and their mission/cause, cause it sure as hell ain't improving the football aspect at this club.

anyone who thinks otherwise, then I'll leave you to discuss with Letters ...and keep the message board buzzing

[Letters]

I expect us to go into the penultimate game fighting for the title too, anything less is a failure IMO.

So you are essentially saying we can't improve upon Wenger right now?

I'm not saying that, but some of the names bandied around on here as replacements have crashed and burned elsewhere.
I don't think anyone will come in and we'll suddenly be sweeping all before us.

[Letters]

That's a bit of a cop out.

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. Cop out of what?

[Özim]

I'm not saying that, but some of the names bandied around on here as replacements have crashed and burned elsewhere.
I don't think anyone will come in and we'll suddenly be sweeping all before us.

The blunt truth is Wenger in the last 10 years has won two cups, that's it. 4th places are all very good but are pretty meaningless, if we looked at another manager and all they'd won is 2 cups in 10 years but had a history of coming 3rd/4th we wouldn't touch them with a bargepole, we'd think this guy is an also-ran never being able to deliver success.

2 cups in 10 years, that's it and put like that he's nothing special at all, 4th places only mean something in terms of money and the CL, but for any proper football club interested in being the best and success it's not much of an achievement.

4th place means nothing, especially when you consider what he's done when he's qualified for the CL,it would be different if he'd won the CL or got to the latter stages regularly, sadly that's not the case, on that basic his record is mediocre.

[Power n Glory]

It's a massive cop out when you consider that the side leading the way in the premier league is a side far less expensively assembled than ours, and paid far less for their services.
We have dismissed them as if they aren't there, but end of January they have only lost two league games to our five
This is a team that have not had to deal with European fixtures but this is a side with a far smaller squad, and in the last month have had to play the exact same amount of games we have.

:gp:

[Dein-machine]

I'm not saying that, but some of the names bandied around on here as replacements have crashed and burned elsewhere.
I don't think anyone will come in and we'll suddenly be sweeping all before us.

Nor does anyone else but what would be nice is to have a board & a manager that would like to sweep all before us. What could a Ranieri do with our players & money if you look at what he's doing at Leicester, what if we'd got rid of Wumget a few years ago & replaced him with Pochettino - he has improved Spurs far more in the last few years then Wenger has us & what job could Koeman have done with out resources - would we be more attack minded & not throwing away results with Wenger's new found get a lead & sit back philiosophy. No-one knows the answers to these but it I would suggest all of the above could get us top 4 & the occasional cup at the very least. Wenger has had a lifetime to prove he can challenge again but simply cant, so saying that others may not do any better doesn't wash anymore. We are stagnating under Wenger just at a time when the finances have never been better for us - this is the time to get the best quality players, to play quality football - but he simply won't.

[Niall_Quinn]

I expect us to go into the City game, our penultimate game, with a shout of still winning the title. I guess that would be classed as challenging. It is a bit subjective but that would be a reasonable guide.

There is no standout team in England. A Barca or a Bayern would walk this league.
Clubs like City, Chelsea, Utd have spent silly money in the transfer market and none of them have pulled away from 'the rest'. If anything, perhaps because of new TV deals, the rest are catching up. And supposed top manager after top manager have been put in charge of some of the top clubs in England, given silly transfer budgets, and none have made them stand out from the rest or into a European power.

So while Wenger is getting on and needs replacing at some point, probably sooner rather than later, I'm not sure who you think would come along and suddenly turn us into a Barca or a Bayern. If City or Chelsea didn't do that with all their money then why would we?

And where did I say I want a manager to come along and suddenly turn us into a Barca or Bayern?

[Niall_Quinn]

It's a massive cop out when you consider that the side leading the way in the premier league is a side far less expensively assembled than ours, and paid far less for their services.
We have dismissed them as if they aren't there, but end of January they have only lost two league games to our five
This is a team that have not had to deal with European fixtures but this is a side with a far smaller squad, and in the last month have had to play the exact same amount of games we have.

And they've had injuries to their key players.

[Letters]

The blunt truth is Wenger in the last 10 years has won two cups, that's it.

You could say last 10 years, I could say last 2 years. Both are 'true' but neither paint the full picture. I do think we should have won a cup or two before 2 years ago, maybe a title. There were times when Wenger should have been sacked for his failings. But comparing the last couple of years to the 8 years before that is simplistic, it takes no account of the change in our financial muscle, it's no co-incidence that the trophies started being won after we started signing players like Ozil and Sanches.

We should have done more last summer, Cech was a good signing but we needed more. If that costs us a title challenge then Wenger should be sacked.
But saying 'challenge' is not a get out clause. I don't think we have a better squad than other contenders so why would I expect us to be waltzing to the title? I do think we have a squad good enough to compete, I expect us to. I don't think sacking a manager who has us level on points with the team many are proclaiming as champions elect is a sensible move. I do think if we drop away and fail to challenge till the end he should be sacked though.

[Özim]

You could say last 10 years, I could say last 2 years. Both are 'true' but neither paint the full picture. I do think we should have won a cup or two before 2 years ago, maybe a title. There were times when Wenger should have been sacked for his failings. But comparing the last couple of years to the 8 years before that is simplistic, it takes no account of the change in our financial muscle, it's no co-incidence that the trophies started being won after we started signing players like Ozil and Sanches.

We should have done more last summer, Cech was a good signing but we needed more. If that costs us a title challenge then Wenger should be sacked.
But saying 'challenge' is not a get out clause. I don't think we have a better squad than other contenders so why would I expect us to be waltzing to the title? I do think we have a squad good enough to compete, I expect us to. I don't think sacking a manager who has us level on points with the team many are proclaiming as champions elect is a sensible move. I do think if we drop away and fail to challenge till the end he should be sacked though.


I'm saying it on the basis of looking for a new manager, if we were looking would we consider a manager who has won 2 cups in 10 years (you would be looking at their record over a periord rather than 2 years to see what they had achieved at their last club IMO)?

I don't think so, we'd be looking for a manager with a record of winning titles, relative success in Europe in relation to their resources etc, we wouldn't be considering someone who'd managed a big club and picked up two cups and with an average record in the CL.

The reason we should win the title is simple, Chelsea have been hopeless, Man U are poor, Man City have been very inconsistent, Liverpool sacked their manager and are rebuilding.....in real terms any team who can string a few results together has the title available on a plate, in all honesty if we'd played like Champions and got results we should have got we'd be coasting because let's be honest our challengers have been poor this season.

The issue is time and time again we've dropped points when we should have won games, the last 3 games being decisive proof, the game at Liverpool was all but won, if we'd been professional we'd have held onto possession and seen the game out, against Stoke we should have gone out all guns blazing and done away with them (they're not Bayern Munich after all), instead we allowed them to dictate the tempo and yesterday of course, once again at home with yet another chance to pull things round we lose against a team who have struggled against most teams this season, worse still this was at home.

There's just too many of these results, 4 points clear of Man City at one point and despite them not playing well at all they are now ahead of us on goal difference, it says it all really.

You just can't believe in a manager who's teams have a record of collapsing when an opporutnity to lead the pack arises, it's happened far too many times for you to think it'll be different this time round, especially given our recent results.

[Niall_Quinn]

We should have done more last summer, Cech was a good signing but we needed more. If that costs us a title challenge then Wenger should be sacked.

So if his irresponsible and negligent gamble pays off, because there's simply nobody else among the top dogs who can get their season together or none of the smaller clubs can maintain the pace, he stays. But if his irresponsible and negligent gamble fails, then he goes. Is that it?

Wouldn't it have been a whole lot better to have eliminated the gamble and used some of that "financial muscle" to bring in the players we needed for a campaign that potentially spanned four competitions?

I think he should be sacked for not doing his job in the summer. The fact we'll have to wait until 2019 for him to go is shocking considering the long list of managers at other clubs who suffered the realities of football for not delivering everything (not just something, but everything) that was expected of them. We've had title winning managers being shown the door, very harsh but a measure of what the owners at those clubs expect and demand. We all know what our lot expect and demand - profits. And fuck the football.

[Munchies]

So if his irresponsible and negligent gamble pays off, because there's simply nobody else among the top dogs who can get their season together or none of the smaller clubs can maintain the pace, he stays. But if his irresponsible and negligent gamble fails, then he goes. Is that it?

Wouldn't it have been a whole lot better to have eliminated the gamble and used some of that "financial muscle" to bring in the players we needed for a campaign that potentially spanned four competitions?

I think he should be sacked for not doing his job in the summer. The fact we'll have to wait until 2019 for him to go is shocking considering the long list of managers at other clubs who suffered the realities of football for not delivering everything (not just something, but everything) that was expected of them. We've had title winning managers being shown the door, very harsh but a measure of what the owners at those clubs expect and demand. We all know what our lot expect and demand - profits. And fuck the football.

:gp:

Same shit all the time.

You'd think he'd learn from the Broken Back Kallstrom debacle

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think so, we'd be looking for a manager with a record of winning titles, relative success in Europe in relation to their resources etc, we wouldn't be considering someone who'd managed a big club and picked up two cups and with an average record in the CL.

You think so? I don't. I think we'll be looking for a manager with a strong track record in financial investments, demonstrable and sustained earnings and the willingness to bullshit the fans about having ambition on the pitch. When Letters says there's nobody expect Wenger out there, he kind of has a point.

[Munchies]

NQ, do you have a full size pic of your av? :lol:

Seem to remember seeing it

[Letters]

There's just too many of these results, 4 points clear of Man City at one point and despite them not playing well at all they are now ahead of us on goal difference, it says it all really.
We were 4 points clear of them for about 5 days, we cocked it up on Boxing Day and it went back to 1. We're a month later now and it's now 0 points.
And they were 5 points clear of us at one point too.

The fact is no-one has been that good this year. The title's there for the taking. We've dropped points we shouldn't have but so has everyone else. Who knows any more?


You just can't believe in a manager who's teams have a record of collapsing when an opporutnity to lead the pack arises, it's happened far too many times for you to think it'll be different this time round, especially given our recent results.

I kinda agree but with Sanchez coming back I have some hope that we're going to improve - we usually go on a good run at some point, let's hope it's now.
The next 2 games are winnable, then it's Leicester at home which is an improbably 6 pointer.
Win those 3 and things will look a bit rosier.
Cock those up too and I'll probably contract ZD too :rose:

[Niall_Quinn]

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a433/qwerty12343/theo-walnut_zpsrbdqmncq.jpg

Theo Walnut

[Power n Glory]

:haha:

[Letters]

When Letters says there's nobody expect Wenger out there, he kind of has a point.
:pal:


And I didn't say that.

[Letters]

So if his irresponsible and negligent gamble pays off, because there's simply nobody else among the top dogs who can get their season together or none of the smaller clubs can maintain the pace, he stays. But if his irresponsible and negligent gamble fails, then he goes. Is that it?

I want us to compete for the title, I think we're good enough to, we've got the money to compete so we should be doing so.
It wasn't a 'gamble' last summer, he clearly tried to sign outfield players and didn't manage to. But if we fail because of that then he should be sacked.
If we win the league then it would be nice if he stepped aside, it would be a good way to go out. But I don't think many title winning managers would be sacked.

[selassie]

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a433/qwerty12343/theo-walnut_zpsrbdqmncq.jpg

Theo Walnut

:haha:

[Alpha]

What about the mental fitness of the manager? Do we just assume Wenger knows what he's doing, in light of the performance yesterday for example? He keeps doing the same thing and we keep churning out the same result. Didn't somebody once say that's the definition of insanity?

I don't think I am in a position to discuss Wenger's mental fitness .He has a board of Directors above him who should assess everything about him before deciding he is fit for the job .We may end up saying everyone involved in running Arsenal Football Club is not mental fit . That will bring another question about fans : why the hell are these people supporting a team run by an unfit board and an unfit manager ? Are they mentally fit too ?

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think I am in a position to discuss Wenger's mental fitness .He has a board of Directors above him who should assess everything about him before deciding he is fit for the job .We may end up saying everyone involved in running Arsenal Football Club is not mental fit . That will bring another question about fans : why the hell are these people supporting a team run by an unfit board and an unfit manager ? Are they mentally fit too ?

You do have to be a bit screwed in the head to be a fan these days.

[IBK]

Yes it is our best chance to win the league in a long time. But by some distance? No, that’s based on outdated clichéd ideas of where the game is in this country right now. We have maintained our level from previous seasons, if you look at the points season on season, we’re pretty much on a par. We do not exist in a vacuum. The quality of the league remains relative no matter who you are talking about – City, Utd, Arsenal, Leicester – and so the performance levels of all the teams – including ours – will be affected. So we remain the same, rather than improving and everyone else has gradually declined year on year. It hasn’t suddenly occurred for one freak season. It's easy to find excuses for other teams rather than our own but I bet on fan forums everywhere, the reverse is taking place.


I find it very difficult to follow what you are trying to say. The quality of the league does not remain relative. In 2 of the past 3 completed seasons, we have had Manure (2012/13) and the Chavs (2014/15) pretty much ran away with the league. Why? Because they were significantly better than anyone else - in terms of results. In each of these seasons, with the exception of 2013/14, when Liverpool gatecrashed the party, the same teams finished top 4.

This season 2 of those teams have imploded, and the other has lost its focus. Surely its obvious that Arsenal, not having been affected by the factors that have caused problems for the usual top 3 or 4 teams, should be taking advantage? I simply cannot see why an admittedly poor league this year should prevent this - in fact even if we had no reason to expect to move on from last season, we should be doing better than we are with our traditional competitors dropping ponts. What you are saying is completely counter-intuitive.

And I have pointed out why we should not be staying still, we should have upped our game. 3 established world class players vs none in previous seasons mean we should be taking points that we have failed to take in previous seasons...and (given Citeh's dropped points) we should be well clear. There may be a case for Leicester being closer than the rest given their astonishing season - but to be 3 points behind them at this stage, with no clear water between us and Citeh has to count as under achievement, for me.

[IBK]

You could say last 10 years, I could say last 2 years. Both are 'true' but neither paint the full picture. I do think we should have won a cup or two before 2 years ago, maybe a title. There were times when Wenger should have been sacked for his failings. But comparing the last couple of years to the 8 years before that is simplistic, it takes no account of the change in our financial muscle, it's no co-incidence that the trophies started being won after we started signing players like Ozil and Sanches.

We should have done more last summer, Cech was a good signing but we needed more. If that costs us a title challenge then Wenger should be sacked.
But saying 'challenge' is not a get out clause. I don't think we have a better squad than other contenders so why would I expect us to be waltzing to the title? I do think we have a squad good enough to compete, I expect us to. I don't think sacking a manager who has us level on points with the team many are proclaiming as champions elect is a sensible move. I do think if we drop away and fail to challenge till the end he should be sacked though.

We probably don't have a better squad than Manure; the Chavs or Citeh - but 2 of them have fucked up, and the other doesn't seem interested in winning...so we should be making like a hell of a lot easier than we are.

[Kano]

I find it very difficult to follow what you are trying to say. The quality of the league does not remain relative. In 2 of the past 3 completed seasons, we have had Manure (2012/13) and the Chavs (2014/15) pretty much ran away with the league. Why? Because they were significantly better than anyone else - in terms of results. In each of these seasons, with the exception of 2013/14, when Liverpool gatecrashed the party, the same teams finished top 4.

This season 2 of those teams have imploded, and the other has lost its focus. Surely its obvious that Arsenal, not having been affected by the factors that have caused problems for the usual top 3 or 4 teams, should be taking advantage? I simply cannot see why an admittedly poor league this year should prevent this - in fact even if we had no reason to expect to move on from last season, we should be doing better than we are with our traditional competitors dropping ponts. What you are saying is completely counter-intuitive.

And I have pointed out why we should not be staying still, we should have upped our game. 3 established world class players vs none in previous seasons mean we should be taking points that we have failed to take in previous seasons...and (given Citeh's dropped points) we should be well clear. There may be a case for Leicester being closer than the rest given their astonishing season - but to be 3 points behind them at this stage, with no clear water between us and Citeh has to count as under achievement, for me.
Of course it remains relative - because we're in it. You're implying in those campaigns that both teams raced away not to be seen early on - from memory that didn't happen when Utd won the title. So we're talking about one case here, Chelsea last season, which is hardly a pattern. That just reinforces my point.

What factors have affected City? This idea of sacking is ridiculous when you are talking about a man so experienced, someone who saw out his time at Madrid under even more intense pressure. Their team is made up of the usual mercenaries we all have in our teams, no players for life. They aren't worried about stability of management because they all move around like rats themselves. No excuses for City at all, if we're not supposed to be immune from them. We have remained as we have in previous seasons while the rest have dropped off. Well, only Chelsea in reality. Liverpool were junk last season, as were Utd (in comparative terms). You also have to the take into consideration the approach of everyone we are playing - something vastly overlooked when talking about your own team. Which is why I keep mentioning that their is a level of organisational parity in football now and mostly technique wins through. Which is why Aguero or Alexis, Vardy or Kane stand out as making the clearest differences.

There has been a vast decline in the quality of football in this country that has been going on for years. At the same time the organisational level of teams has improved, so it isn't enough to roll out the list of high class players in each time and expect that to be enough. Last season we had Ozil and Alexis, so three world class players haven't appeared in this team suddenly. We added Cech and as such, we've seen a relative improvement compared to last season given our position and point increase (I think).

The best will rise to the top, as we can see when you look at the table, but the gap is not apparent as it once was. This season was waiting to happen and it will continue, so this expectation that we will rise above it makes no sense. If the general standard of play has declined - a couple of weekends viewing of TV matches would confirm that - then how can a team that has hardly changed expect to improve so dramatically and stand so clearly above the averageness? Buy and improve each season was the old mantra wasn't it? So Wenger fuck up in the summer by not buying? Of course but that's another discussion. Maureen did it by bringing in 3 key players and the effect was instant. City spend habitually but have yet to find the right man that fits their club that can make them a consistent outfit to win the PL, per Utd or Chelsea.

[IBK]

Of course it remains relative - because we're in it. You're implying in those campaigns that both teams raced away not to be seen early on - from memory that didn't happen when Utd won the title. So we're talking about one case here, Chelsea last season, which is hardly a pattern. That just reinforces my point.

What factors have affected City? This idea of sacking is ridiculous when you are talking about a man so experienced, someone who saw out his time at Madrid under even more intense pressure. Their team is made up of the usual mercenaries we all have in our teams, no players for life. They aren't worried about stability of management because they all move around like rats themselves. No excuses for City at all, if we're not supposed to be immune from them. We have remained as we have in previous seasons while the rest have dropped off. Well, only Chelsea in reality. Liverpool were junk last season, as were Utd (in comparative terms). You also have to the take into consideration the approach of everyone we are playing - something vastly overlooked when talking about your own team. Which is why I keep mentioning that their is a level of organisational parity in football now and mostly technique wins through. Which is why Aguero or Alexis, Vardy or Kane stand out as making the clearest differences.

There has been a vast decline in the quality of football in this country that has been going on for years. At the same time the organisational level of teams has improved, so it isn't enough to roll out the list of high class players in each time and expect that to be enough. Last season we had Ozil and Alexis, so three world class players haven't appeared in this team suddenly. We added Cech and as such, we've seen a relative improvement compared to last season given our position and point increase (I think).

The best will rise to the top, as we can see when you look at the table, but the gap is not apparent as it once was. This season was waiting to happen and it will continue, so this expectation that we will rise above it makes no sense. If the general standard of play has declined - a couple of weekends viewing of TV matches would confirm that - then how can a team that has hardly changed expect to improve so dramatically and stand so clearly above the averageness? Buy and improve each season was the old mantra wasn't it? So Wenger fuck up in the summer by not buying? Of course but that's another discussion. Maureen did it by bringing in 3 key players and the effect was instant. City spend habitually but have yet to find the right man that fits their club that can make them a consistent outfit to win the PL, per Utd or Chelsea.

Slightly clearer. Of course, our performance over a season can only be relative to the other teams in our league, but so what? This doesn't mean anything. We are either better than our competitors and win the league, or we are not, and we won't.


The question we are considering is whether we should be winning the league comfortably this season? I have explained why I think we should. In a sense my speculation about City is irrelevant. I think that their mercenary players look disinterested on the whole - particularly their defenders without Kompany organising them on so many occasions - and I think that it is inevitable with players like this who see the writing on the wall for their manager that they drop off. Neverthleless, they have performed nowhere near expectations given the money spent, and the talent available in their strong squad, yet we haven't opened a gap on them.


I accept that the level of football - particularly defending - in the EPL has declined. And it is generally accepted that to improve you need to be playing regularly against top talent. But what you are saying is that despite the improvements to our squad (and we all know that it is only this season where Ozil has started to show his true value - and Alexis has had time to bed in and adapt properly to his teammates) we have declined along with the rest. I think this is the crux of it. We have far less reason to have declined than most of our competitors. In this respect, you can point to lack of signings in the Summer, but you can also point out Wenger's good fortune in having had real, organic improvement with the likes of Coquelin; Bellerin and Monreal.


So for me. Having a shit league should mean that we are doing better than we are. Simple really.


As for other teams' organisational abilities improving - well perhaps. but this hasn't happened overnight - and I think that lower teams' apparently increasing 'shock' results over the established top teams has as much if not more to do with their opponents' shortcomings than it has to do with them narrowing the gap. And I think that fans are justified in looking at our manager and asking why the hell we go season after season without so many of our shortcomings being properly addressed.

[GP]

I want us to compete for the title, I think we're good enough to, we've got the money to compete so we should be doing so.
It wasn't a 'gamble' last summer, he clearly tried to sign outfield players and didn't manage to. But if we fail because of that then he should be sacked.
If we win the league then it would be nice if he stepped aside, it would be a good way to go out. But I don't think many title winning managers would be sacked.

If he wins the league, he should go out on a high.

If he doesn't, he should be sacked, thrown into a wood chipper and then shot into the centre of the sun.

We should have a comfortable lead by now. We've blown it.

[Marc Overmars]

We'll be closer to 5th than 1st come March.

Happens all the time. Nosebleed.

[Chippy]

Spurs are, irritatingly, a good side right now. But they have drawn too many so far to be taken too seriously, if they can sort that out then they've got a chance.
Hold me :upset:
:hug:
Not sure I could return to work if those wankers win it :(

[Kano]

Slightly clearer. Of course, our performance over a season can only be relative to the other teams in our league, but so what? This doesn't mean anything. We are either better than our competitors and win the league, or we are not, and we won't.


The question we are considering is whether we should be winning the league comfortably this season? I have explained why I think we should. In a sense my speculation about City is irrelevant. I think that their mercenary players look disinterested on the whole - particularly their defenders without Kompany organising them on so many occasions - and I think that it is inevitable with players like this who see the writing on the wall for their manager that they drop off. Neverthleless, they have performed nowhere near expectations given the money spent, and the talent available in their strong squad, yet we haven't opened a gap on them.


I accept that the level of football - particularly defending - in the EPL has declined. And it is generally accepted that to improve you need to be playing regularly against top talent. But what you are saying is that despite the improvements to our squad (and we all know that it is only this season where Ozil has started to show his true value - and Alexis has had time to bed in and adapt properly to his teammates) we have declined along with the rest. I think this is the crux of it. We have far less reason to have declined than most of our competitors. In this respect, you can point to lack of signings in the Summer, but you can also point out Wenger's good fortune in having had real, organic improvement with the likes of Coquelin; Bellerin and Monreal.


So for me. Having a shit league should mean that we are doing better than we are. Simple really.


As for other teams' organisational abilities improving - well perhaps. but this hasn't happened overnight - and I think that lower teams' apparently increasing 'shock' results over the established top teams has as much if not more to do with their opponents' shortcomings than it has to do with them narrowing the gap. And I think that fans are justified in looking at our manager and asking why the hell we go season after season without so many of our shortcomings being properly addressed.

Absolutely, the better teams have dropped off but the organisation of the smaller teams, rather than any financial or technical improvements have meant they are able to compete weekly on a closer level. I don't think it's a coincidence that both Palace and Leicester ended last season very strongly and they have been two of the most noticeable teams making a mark in the top half of the table. And that level of organisation is a natural evolution when you consider the limitations of how much information exists for that side of the game.

As for ourselves, as a fan I see why the expectation is there to be better than we are but I understand why we're not and as many of those factors exist outside of our club as they do inside it. I won't buy the idea that City's players are disinterested or dropped off because of the situation around their manager. I don't think any modern player lets that affect them because they are used to players/managers coming and going, media speculation constantly swirling around them. When they join a club like City they know what sort of high turnover situation they are walking into. It's the same at nearly any club with pretensions of being big time (and will be here once Wenger leaves - whatever century that is in). Let's not forget City only finished four points above us last season and find themselves in a similar situation right now - underperforming.

In what many are calling a tougher league, with a new keeper we have picked up more points. City have remained static. As have Utd and Liverpool. Chelsea falling off a cliff is just bizarre. The overall quality of the product continues to resemble Sunday park football most weekends. It's a dirge and as such, regardless of the quality we are supposed to have in our team, we are in that swamp too. Let's not forget that our squad at the start of the season was not deemed good enough. And so it is proving to be the case that in an average league, with an average squad, we too look average. Three world class players are not enough as you need a strong squad, which we do not have. Only on paper. Think of how many games we've pubbed wins in the past couple of seasons. That isn't because suddenly all our technical ability has disappeared but the set-up of opponents have made games far more difficult. So many games are marginal now the knock on effect of teams like Atletico, Dortmund, Bayern and to a degree Barca has become integral to work ethic of many teams.

You won't be find me arguing at the end of the season if we screw this up again that Wenger has made mistakes. I was there at the start of the season but I made the decision to hold off and try to enjoy my football (despite its pub-style) until I see where things are once the dust settles. As much as I can see the flaws in our squad and manager I also accept that the league around us is also contributing to them.

[IBK]

Absolutely, the better teams have dropped off but the organisation of the smaller teams, rather than any financial or technical improvements have meant they are able to compete weekly on a closer level. I don't think it's a coincidence that both Palace and Leicester ended last season very strongly and they have been two of the most noticeable teams making a mark in the top half of the table. And that level of organisation is a natural evolution when you consider the limitations of how much information exists for that side of the game.

As for ourselves, as a fan I see why the expectation is there to be better than we are but I understand why we're not and as many of those factors exist outside of our club as they do inside it. I won't buy the idea that City's players are disinterested or dropped off because of the situation around their manager. I don't think any modern player lets that affect them because they are used to players/managers coming and going, media speculation constantly swirling around them. When they join a club like City they know what sort of high turnover situation they are walking into. It's the same at nearly any club with pretensions of being big time (and will be here once Wenger leaves - whatever century that is in). Let's not forget City only finished four points above us last season and find themselves in a similar situation right now - underperforming.

In what many are calling a tougher league, with a new keeper we have picked up more points. City have remained static. As have Utd and Liverpool. Chelsea falling off a cliff is just bizarre. The overall quality of the product continues to resemble Sunday park football most weekends. It's a dirge and as such, regardless of the quality we are supposed to have in our team, we are in that swamp too. Let's not forget that our squad at the start of the season was not deemed good enough. And so it is proving to be the case that in an average league, with an average squad, we too look average. Three world class players are not enough as you need a strong squad, which we do not have. Only on paper. Think of how many games we've pubbed wins in the past couple of seasons. That isn't because suddenly all our technical ability has disappeared but the set-up of opponents have made games far more difficult. So many games are marginal now the knock on effect of teams like Atletico, Dortmund, Bayern and to a degree Barca has become integral to work ethic of many teams.

You won't be find me arguing at the end of the season if we screw this up again that Wenger has made mistakes. I was there at the start of the season but I made the decision to hold off and try to enjoy my football (despite its pub-style) until I see where things are once the dust settles. As much as I can see the flaws in our squad and manager I also accept that the league around us is also contributing to them.



I think you are putting too much emphasis on Leicester and Palace - and using their performances to justify your argument that all teams are getting harder to beat. Leicester are a phenomenon - and in many ways a one-off this season. Pardiola always has blue streaks - but Palace are not pulling up any trees this season now. Lower teams have undoubtedly become more organised, as their managers see that the way to unsettle teams that are technically better is to defend with better discipline and to press hard, but that's what football does - it moves in cycles - and its for rich teams with supposedly world class managers like Arsenal to adapt their playing style to cope. For every Leicester or Watford or West Ham this season; there is an Everton; Chelsea or Manure shedding points that they would not have been expected to in past seasons - plus we have taken points from Manure and Citeh that we have failed to do recently, so I'm not sure that our points total so far can be simply laid at the door of a generally improving lower half of the table.


I suppose the more interesting question is why Wenger cannot cope with the 'Sunday football' that you describe. To a degree this is nothing new. The EPL has always favoured footballing sides less than 'blood and thunder' - and its not as though our manager is not used to it FFS! And its even more frustrating when earlier in the season we seemed to have realised that a high pressing, passing game can be flawed and expose us to the kind of counter attacking football that has been our undoing many times this season, yet lately have abandoned this. I accept that to say we should be easily winning this league is to expect that the manager marshals his resources better to face the football that we are seeing - but I don't think this expectation is any less valid for it.

[Kano]

I think you are putting too much emphasis on Leicester and Palace - and using their performances to justify your argument that all teams are getting harder to beat. Leicester are a phenomenon - and in many ways a one-off this season. Pardiola always has blue streaks - but Palace are not pulling up any trees this season now. Lower teams have undoubtedly become more organised, as their managers see that the way to unsettle teams that are technically better is to defend with better discipline and to press hard, but that's what football does - it moves in cycles - and its for rich teams with supposedly world class managers like Arsenal to adapt their playing style to cope. For every Leicester or Watford or West Ham this season; there is an Everton; Chelsea or Manure shedding points that they would not have been expected to in past seasons - plus we have taken points from Manure and Citeh that we have failed to do recently, so I'm not sure that our points total so far can be simply laid at the door of a generally improving lower half of the table.


I suppose the more interesting question is why Wenger cannot cope with the 'Sunday football' that you describe. To a degree this is nothing new. The EPL has always favoured footballing sides less than 'blood and thunder' - and its not as though our manager is not used to it FFS! And its even more frustrating when earlier in the season we seemed to have realised that a high pressing, passing game can be flawed and expose us to the kind of counter attacking football that has been our undoing many times this season, yet lately have abandoned this. I accept that to say we should be easily winning this league is to expect that the manager marshals his resources better to face the football that we are seeing - but I don't think this expectation is any less valid for it.
I’ve only mentioned those two teams as examples once, hardly the crux of my argument! They are just the most noticeable given how they’ve continued their momentum from last season, which has rarely been the case in the past. West Ham are another, Watford, Stoke – there are more to offer. These teams have won more games against the bigger sides than in recent memory and there has to be a reason for that. If it was a couple of teams I think it would be more easily dismissed but there is an pattern emerging. You mention Utd’s struggle, well they are in the expected position given the downfall of their Fergie dynasty, I’m not surprised they are still going through a transition like this and following on from their position under Moyes and struggle for 4th last season, three seasons of it has become the norm, rather than a shock they are shedding points. Everton are just (N)Everton. Close but never quite there. Even under Moyes they went through this up/down cycle of top six/mid-table/bottom half struggles the following season. Martinez is following the exact same pattern at the moment. Chelsea? Well, that’s the odd one out, most probably down to Mourinho’s inside job sabotaging his own work. Who knows.

The richer clubs are supposed to be able to negate this kick ‘n’ rush approach but because the overall quality of player now has declined in every squad, what we see on the pitch reflects that, alongside the higher levels of organisation of their opposition. Football does indeed go in cycles but we can’t dismiss that the finite amount of information for preparing and setting up teams is now spread across every team. All the technology, diets, tactics, training regimes would barely differ I would imagine. The intensity levels may change but when the teams in the top divisions all have access to the same pool, you can’t avoid a levelling out, especially when the quality of player is now marked by their transfer fee, rather than their actual ability. Every other league knows they can rinse the shit out of the Prem, so while overall spending increases in the league, the tangible quality has not. I really don’t think Wenger is alone in struggling to overcome this style for the reasons above and we’re seeing that borne out in the results City and Spurs (I’m using these examples as our closest rivals). Spurs have drawn an awful lot and City, like ourselves, are terribly inconsistent.

[Niall_Quinn]

Our manager keeps on doing stupid things that don't work. We don't know why he keeps on doing stupid things because he never feels the need to explain his actions.

1. Playing players out of position - one of his favourites. Eventually though, maybe it takes a season or two, he usually concedes and does what everyone else knew all along.

2. Sticking with players who are badly off form and a liability.

3. Using the same tactics regardless of the opponent's strengths and weaknesses.

4. Refusing to buy in the quality we need in the transfer windows. This is probably his all time favourite fuck up. He's always looking for the cheap deal and has bizarre ideas about quality. He genuinely seems to think a player like Vidal couldn't improve on what we already have here, and frankly that's just crazy.

5. Being negative when we should be pressing, being gung-ho when we should be consolidating.

6. Mass squad rotation instead of limited, considered changes.

7. Playing players when they are unfit and then the next week refusing to play players who have the slightest fitness doubt. Totally inconsistent here.

8. Failing to get the players motivated for what he perceives as the smaller games. Really speaking a player on multiple tens of thousands of quid a week should have little problem with motivation, but we know they do. It's the manager's job to take care of that and the number of slow starts we've seen this season (and in the past) is disgraceful.

9. Buying absolute shit and trying to pretend it is not absolute shit when anyone with eyes can figure out they are looking at absolute shit.

10. Crazy subs that unbalance the team or surrender the momentum. Absolutely infuriating.

11. Being horribly predictable in the big games, bar the very rare exception such as the Utd game this season. When he sees a game like that and he sees what the players can do when set up correctly and with the correct tactics, motivation and discipline, what makes him then revert to his tired old bullshit the following week?

12. Sitting on his arse in-game and persisting with what's simply not working. We can get outplayed right up until the 68th or 72nd minute when finally he makes that predictable substitution. Usually he changes nothing in terms of the tactics though. It's like he checks out as soon as the whistle blows for kick off. How many times have you seen him make a change at HT?

13. Complaining about every other team out there in a desperate hunt for excuses so he can avoid speaking about the very obvious weaknesses in his own team and his own management. The complaints are usually loudest when we have just fucked up in a crucial game - again.

14. Failing to instil discipline in his player, or more likely encouraging them to have none at all. The way certain players abandon their post and put huge pressure on the team is a scandal. If Wenger cared about this he'd do something about it wouldn't he?

15. Failing to comprehend the value of momentum. Every win is a mental plus, in the big games, small games, nothing games. We should never go out there thinking the result is not important but how many times have we been on a decent run of form only for a minor game to come up and Wenger throw out a skeleton team who embarrass themselves?

16. Failing to fight to the finish. Our collapse at the tail end of last season once the chavs had won the title showed a deep lack of winning mentality in this manager. To give up before the season ended, that's awful and casts huge doubts on his desire to be the best.

17. Pretending qualification for the CL is a trophy in itself. It isn't. The only way it could be of value is if we then went on to do something of note in the CL. We don't. The 4th place cup is all about the money, not the desire to win anything.

18. Ego and control freakery - refusing to give meaningful roles to his coaching staff. Having too much ego to delegate. Ferguson had great success splitting the load. Clough. Paisley. Wenger just wants yes men in tow.

19. Tippy tappy. What a fucking curse. Sideways, backwards, sideways, backwards, forwards, lose the ball. Repeat ad infinitum. He's destroyed our game and given us the exact opposite of the exhilarating football we used to play. WHY?

20. Chronic stubbornness - even when he knows he's wrong and he know's that everyone knows it too, he persists. This isn't conviction, it's stupidity. It would be conviction if he ever delivered on the back of his decisions but he doesn't and it has got to the point where fans can predict well in advance how, when, where and why he'll fuck it up.

21. Keep filling in your own... I'm sure I have missed many.

His good points.

1. Genuinely decent bloke.

2. Loyalty.

3. Principles, even though they kill us.

4. Wider intelligence off the pitch.

5. His legacy - though that's under threat now.

But is he even a football manager at all?

Anyway, that's why we haven't taken advantage this season. The manager.

[IBK]

I’ve only mentioned those two teams as examples once, hardly the crux of my argument! They are just the most noticeable given how they’ve continued their momentum from last season, which has rarely been the case in the past. West Ham are another, Watford, Stoke – there are more to offer. These teams have won more games against the bigger sides than in recent memory and there has to be a reason for that. If it was a couple of teams I think it would be more easily dismissed but there is an pattern emerging. You mention Utd’s struggle, well they are in the expected position given the downfall of their Fergie dynasty, I’m not surprised they are still going through a transition like this and following on from their position under Moyes and struggle for 4th last season, three seasons of it has become the norm, rather than a shock they are shedding points. Everton are just (N)Everton. Close but never quite there. Even under Moyes they went through this up/down cycle of top six/mid-table/bottom half struggles the following season. Martinez is following the exact same pattern at the moment. Chelsea? Well, that’s the odd one out, most probably down to Mourinho’s inside job sabotaging his own work. Who knows.

The richer clubs are supposed to be able to negate this kick ‘n’ rush approach but because the overall quality of player now has declined in every squad, what we see on the pitch reflects that, alongside the higher levels of organisation of their opposition. Football does indeed go in cycles but we can’t dismiss that the finite amount of information for preparing and setting up teams is now spread across every team. All the technology, diets, tactics, training regimes would barely differ I would imagine. The intensity levels may change but when the teams in the top divisions all have access to the same pool, you can’t avoid a levelling out, especially when the quality of player is now marked by their transfer fee, rather than their actual ability. Every other league knows they can rinse the shit out of the Prem, so while overall spending increases in the league, the tangible quality has not. I really don’t think Wenger is alone in struggling to overcome this style for the reasons above and we’re seeing that borne out in the results City and Spurs (I’m using these examples as our closest rivals). Spurs have drawn an awful lot and City, like ourselves, are terribly inconsistent.

My point is that I'm not sure that overall you can look to blame our failure to capitalise this season on the rise of so-called 'lesser' teams. Pretty much swings and roundabouts, for me.

The crux of my argument is your statement that
The richer clubs are supposed to be able to negate this kick ‘n’ rush approach but because the overall quality of player now has declined in every squad
The overall quality of players in Arsenal's squad has not declined. It has improved. Yet I don't think our points position is substantively different now to what it's been over the past few seasons (haven't checked but someone will know). By contrast, Spurs have made a step change, and Citeh are uncharacteristically dropping easy points.

[Kano]

My point is that I'm not sure that overall you can look to blame our failure to capitalise this season on the rise of so-called 'lesser' teams. Pretty much swings and roundabouts, for me.

The crux of my argument is your statement that
The overall quality of players in Arsenal's squad has not declined. It has improved. Yet I don't think our points position is substantively different now to what it's been over the past few seasons (haven't checked but someone will know). By contrast, Spurs have made a step change, and Citeh are uncharacteristically dropping easy points.

As I mentioned in a previous response, I am not solely putting the blame in any one area. I think it's naive to do that, whichever stand point you take. My point is there are a number of reasons why we - and those around us - are playing as we are and many are inconsistent. It's too easy to do that and that is why the analysis of the game is filled by so many retarded pundits.

Our squad has only marginally improved but it is still not good enough, as pointed out by many at the start of the season and that is also part of what we're seeing. Our points tally is better than last year at least and that is probably down to having a better GK and Ozil on his game. We've lost Sanchez for longer and a quarter of our first choice eleven for a couple of months. Ox and Theo are awful. Bellerin and Monreal are great. Merts is not as stable. Flamini and Ramsey are a disaster zone together. The back up is Arteta. Campbell has shone through. You can take the minuses and pluses and still struggle to figure out the real difference when basing it entirely on our squad. So you have to try to encompass ourselves, opposition, quality of players, league - and it's all still a guess at best.

That's all I'm offering but I'd rather base it on a wider range or criterea than just the problems our manager poses because as fans of the club we choose to be myopic at the best of times, whether positive or negative. City were underperforming last season and even when they have won the title, usually leave it to the last minute, while Tottenham are overperforming when you look at the age and inexperience in their squad, again, all very much based on the organisation of their set-up.

[AFC Leveller]

We had 42 points from 24 games last season. This season we are on 44 after 23 games, clear improvement but it could have been much better had we not dropped points in the last 3 games.

[Niall_Quinn]

As I mentioned in a previous response, I am not solely putting the blame in any one area. I think it's naive to do that, whichever stand point you take. My point is there are a number of reasons why we - and those around us - are playing as we are and many are inconsistent. It's too easy to do that and that is why the analysis of the game is filled by so many retarded pundits.

Our squad has only marginally improved but it is still not good enough, as pointed out by many at the start of the season and that is also part of what we're seeing. Our points tally is better than last year at least and that is probably down to having a better GK and Ozil on his game. We've lost Sanchez for longer and a quarter of our first choice eleven for a couple of months. Ox and Theo are awful. Bellerin and Monreal are great. Merts is not as stable. Flamini and Ramsey are a disaster zone together. The back up is Arteta. Campbell has shone through. You can take the minuses and pluses and still struggle to figure out the real difference when basing it entirely on our squad. So you have to try to encompass ourselves, opposition, quality of players, league - and it's all still a guess at best.

That's all I'm offering but I'd rather base it on a wider range or criterea than just the problems our manager poses because as fans of the club we choose to be myopic at the best of times, whether positive or negative. City were underperforming last season and even when they have won the title, usually leave it to the last minute, while Tottenham are overperforming when you look at the age and inexperience in their squad, again, all very much based on the organisation of their set-up.

All that might be true, pluses and minuses and difficult with direct comparisons - fair enough.

But we have one thing that's not intangible. The manager. Fix that and you haven't fixed every issue but you've taken a massive stride forward. There may be other broken parts but why leave the biggest malfunctioning part of all in place without question?

However, he's here until 2019. And that means, whatever else is fixed, the main problem won't be.

[Power n Glory]

All that might be true, pluses and minuses and difficult with direct comparisons - fair enough.

But we have one thing that's not intangible. The manager. Fix that and you haven't fixed every issue but you've taken a massive stride forward. There may be other broken parts but why leave the biggest malfunctioning part of all in place without question?

However, he's here until 2019. And that means, whatever else is fixed, the main problem won't be.

I agree. We can’t keep looking at outside factors as a way to explain our short comings. The leagues supposedly weaker yet with our new financial muscle we’re just as weak as before? :unsure: Certain things are beyond our control but when it comes to investing in players, improving them, team selection, injuries….that’s within our control. Leicester City are top the table! That says enough. All this talk reminds of Wenger’s financial doping excuses. It’s time to stop it. Even with the doped up teams on their knees we can’t take advantage but somehow Leicester City are able to.

[Marc Overmars]

We had 42 points from 24 games last season. This season we are on 44 after 23 games, clear improvement but it could have been much better had we not dropped points in the last 3 games.

Not sure how clear 2 points is tbh. Some things in life are certain, death, taxes and Arsenal staying at exactly the same level every year.

[fakeyank]

Not sure how clear 2 points is tbh. Some things in life are certain, death, taxes and Arsenal staying at exactly the same level every year.

:gp:

4th place trophy is coming home lads! :trophy:

[Kano]

All that might be true, pluses and minuses and difficult with direct comparisons - fair enough.

But we have one thing that's not intangible. The manager. Fix that and you haven't fixed every issue but you've taken a massive stride forward. There may be other broken parts but why leave the biggest malfunctioning part of all in place without question?

However, he's here until 2019. And that means, whatever else is fixed, the main problem won't be.

Yes and no. The next best gauge will be seeing the effect a new manager will have on City/Chelsea next season. The easy thing to say right now is that we will but I'm not convinced myself.

My point isn't to make this a showcase defence of Wenger but to encompass all the factors that not only mean the style of play is affected but overall performance levels. I see enough issues with Wenger and club myself but I don't agree just a change of manager is going to be enough. The whole Wenger ten year thing you can keep banging Letters over the head with.

[Letters]

:gp:

4th place trophy is coming home lads! :trophy:

Only because you're going to balls it up for us next Tuesday :angry:

[Letters]

Not sure how clear 2 points is tbh. Some things in life are certain, death, taxes and Arsenal staying at exactly the same level every year.

I agree 2 points isn't that significant but is 4? That's the difference for City from this stage last season and yet there's this perception that they've collapsed while failed to capitalise. Truth is we've done marginally better, City have done marginally worse but there's not a whole lot in it either way.
Only Chelsea are significantly different from where they were last year, despite our best efforts to help them <_<
What gives us a chance this year is there's no runaway team.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes and no. The next best gauge will be seeing the effect a new manager will have on City/Chelsea next season. The easy thing to say right now is that we will but I'm not convinced myself.

My point isn't to make this a showcase defence of Wenger but to encompass all the factors that not only mean the style of play is affected but overall performance levels. I see enough issues with Wenger and club myself but I don't agree just a change of manager is going to be enough. The whole Wenger ten year thing you can keep banging Letters over the head with.

I don't think a change of manager will be enough either, not from day #1 at least. But it will be something. I don't envisage anything changing while Wenger is here. Bring some fresh ideas in, they may work, fail, be partially successful, absolutely no way of telling. But if a new guy is given proper support and resources then why shouldn't he be able to start correcting some of the issues Wenger can't seem to fix? You have to try before you can know. And Wenger will have to go one day, so what's the difference between today and tomorrow given the whole financial reshuffle is behind us? For those who point at Ferguson and Moyes and the upheaval caused there, firstly that's a different situation. Utd were well on the slide under Ferguson. We're nice and stable, we have a decent squad, plenty for a new guy to work with. Secondly, if we can't take a risk with the manager then what does that mean? Wenger here forever? He's coming up for 20 years. For the last 10 of them he's been churning out the same old stuff on the pitch. The signs are he'll be churning it out for another 5 years. Why would anyone at the club want that, except the greedy pigs at the top who covet the guaranteed financial returns?

[Özim]

Yes and no. The next best gauge will be seeing the effect a new manager will have on City/Chelsea next season. The easy thing to say right now is that we will but I'm not convinced myself.

My point isn't to make this a showcase defence of Wenger but to encompass all the factors that not only mean the style of play is affected but overall performance levels. I see enough issues with Wenger and club myself but I don't agree just a change of manager is going to be enough. The whole Wenger ten year thing you can keep banging Letters over the head with.

It's pretty simple really, if you sign better players in the position you need to, in our case a striker a DM and I'd sat a CB and bring in a new manager who knows what he's doing and perhaps stop relying on crocks to save your season we will be a better team and better equipped to perform better and win titles and CLs.

It's really not that hard to improve us and make us more successful, it's just that we have a manager who insists of following flawed principles and is more stubborn than a mule and refuses to make the necessary changes, these simple facts make him an average manager IMO, a good manager would be making these simple changes and we would be a much better side for it.

Let's be honest here, Wenger has been living on his reputation for years, once upon a time he apparently revolutioned football, won a few cups and titles....this miraculously all ended when he changed everything about this winning formula to follow some crazy arse idea of building mini Barcelona to improve chances in the CL, the result of this of course was no more titles and less success in the CL.

To this day he still doesn't recognise this and continues with his flawed policies, you couldn't make it up!

[fakeyank]

Only because you're going to balls it up for us next Tuesday :angry:

In my defense, I believe Mrs. FY's presence may change things in our favor.




:run:

[Kano]

I don't think a change of manager will be enough either, not from day #1 at least. But it will be something. I don't envisage anything changing while Wenger is here. Bring some fresh ideas in, they may work, fail, be partially successful, absolutely no way of telling. But if a new guy is given proper support and resources then why shouldn't he be able to start correcting some of the issues Wenger can't seem to fix? You have to try before you can know. And Wenger will have to go one day, so what's the difference between today and tomorrow given the whole financial reshuffle is behind us? For those who point at Ferguson and Moyes and the upheaval caused there, firstly that's a different situation. Utd were well on the slide under Ferguson. We're nice and stable, we have a decent squad, plenty for a new guy to work with. Secondly, if we can't take a risk with the manager then what does that mean? Wenger here forever? He's coming up for 20 years. For the last 10 of them he's been churning out the same old stuff on the pitch. The signs are he'll be churning it out for another 5 years. Why would anyone at the club want that, except the greedy pigs at the top who covet the guaranteed financial returns?

This is partly what I've been going over with IBK in the past few pages, in that yes I have problems with Wenger too and I don't disagree a change of manager may be able to fix some of our flaws. That said, he might also create some new ones because let's face it, as fans we're rarely 100% happy and usually find areas to pick at. But as I've been saying, the other factors outside of our control in this league (which I've explained as far as I can now) will remain in place I think and will have just as much of a contributing factor as I believe they are having now. It may sound boring as fuck to place my argument in this grey area but that is where the truth of the matter exists.

[Niall_Quinn]

This is partly what I've been going over with IBK in the past few pages, in that yes I have problems with Wenger too and I don't disagree a change of manager may be able to fix some of our flaws. That said, he might also create some new ones because let's face it, as fans we're rarely 100% happy and usually find areas to pick at. But as I've been saying, the other factors outside of our control in this league (which I've explained as far as I can now) will remain in place I think and will have just as much of a contributing factor as I believe they are having now. It may sound boring as fuck to place my argument in this grey area but that is where the truth of the matter exists.

But that's why Ferguson's, and unfortunately Maureen's, last title wins were impressive (in different ways). Yes the standard is falling, anyone bar a Sky pundit has to admit that. Yes the mid table and even relegation candidates run a tighter ship tactically, probably having discovered Maureen MkI's Makelelean model as an equaliser. It's negative, congested, it's anti-football 90% of the time and so it's more difficult for technical players to perform and far easier for workhorses to make a mark. Picky refs haven't helped either, blowing up at the slightest hint of contact. Players diving when brushed. The game gets broken to bits. We have a cynical game with a focus on energy and miles run per match. Entertainment has drained, the chavs are praised for parking a bus. All very sad. But Ferguson took his sack of odds and ends and somehow crafted it into a unit that slogged hard enough to win the title. I doubt any other manager could have pulled it off with what he had at his disposal. He found a way, he suited his game to the prevailing conditions and then found an edge. Most unfortunately Maureen did the same but with a group of much more talented individuals, he took the cynicism prevalent in this league and injected it with steroids to raise up the most foul expression of anti-football seen since Wimbledon laughed Liverpool off the pitch in the cup final. But nevertheless, he achieved what he wanted to achieve. I wouldn't want us to do it, but I would like our manager to use all the experience to find his own edge.

But here we have Wenger, insisting nothing needs to change and his ways are still good despite the very essence of the league having changed around his ears. So yes, external factors have considerably modified the challenge. I don't know if our manager is up for that challenge or not because he refuses to accept it and might actually have convinced himself nothing has changed at all. We all know the old clichés, Wenger's teams can't break down a massed defence, Wenger's teams don't like a battle, Wenger's teams overplay, Wenger's tactics are predictable. It's overblown but there's an element of truth to all of it.

Why haven't we replaced Vieira, for example? We've needed that steel for how long now? He doesn't want to do it. He wants Santi Cazorla to battle it out with the Cattermoles. Santi is good enough to sometimes gain the upper hand by fleet of foot and razor passing, but essentially he's another Ozil and should be playing ahead of a sturdy midfield. Wenger has him shoehorned into a position that works if Santi is right on his game and doesn't get kicked in the air too many times. Ramsey should probably be playing there too. And Alexis. And any other number of similar players we've had over the seasons. A load of players for one position, none for another. Players being asked to somehow pull out this ever fleeting pass and move ballet so maybe three times a season we can enjoy an unbelievable goal that wins awards. The rest of the time it's pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, try that ridiculous 2% pass and lose it.

Why can't he mix things up at least? We have some of the fastest players in the league. What's wrong with the ball over the top from time to time. His early teams weren't shy to boot it into space and let Anelka or Henry chase it. It eliminates the predictability, unsettles defenders, keeps the crowd loud. But this tippy tappy shit. Fuck me, it's so frustrating you could smash your head through the screen watching it.

We know the league has changed, we know it. Somebody tell Wenger. Evidently he doesn't know, or doesn't care.