Match Reaction v Barca (home) 15/16

[Munchies]

same problem areas in our team keep costing us over and over again.

Fuck sake.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Flamini solving the problem of fixture congestion. :bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

Kalou on loan this summer please :pray:

[Power n Glory]

Game played out as expected. Knew we'd get chances on the counter but we played the wrong line up. We really put the pressure on them in the second half.

[selassie]

Same every season. At least we're going out to the finalists this year. One thing I will see is miles away from the CL challengers these days.

[AFC Leveller]

Were in the game and had some decent openings but failed to make the most of them and with barca u know they will create chances and they were ruthless.

Alexis was shocking second half, kept losing the ball.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Alexis was shocking second half, kept losing the ball.

Tbf, it saves time passing it to Giroud only to have him lose the ball.

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cb7b6EwW0AIRgrF.jpg

:doh:

[hobson's choice]

Whatever, the fact that a player like Mertersacker is even playing in a game like this, says it all.

[Maestro]

Great effort from everyone.

Lack of quality from Wenget and the average supporting crew of Giroud, Ox, Theo, Flamini and although gallant but ultimately limited Per. So as we were and another at least 2 to 3 years of the same or maybe worse to go.

Ozil and Alexis will not stick around for this shite, good luck to them.

[Dein-machine]

We have a pub player as our CF, a pub player as our Captain & CB and we then bring on a pub player to replace Coq.
We get what Wenger deserves.

[gunnerrrrr]

So this is what all these years of austerity was for....so 60k people could watch us defend like bitches in a premier Euro competion.

Weren't we told that we would be buying such a magnificant stadium to COMPETE with such clubs as Barcelona not watch in awe at our inferior players get spanked.

The worst part is we could of had one of their best players in Suarez if these cheap fucking bastards hadn't fucked around with bids of £40m....plus £1....or if our fucking shit scouting system was fixed so we could find gems again.

This is years of fucking mediocrity, i don't care how fucking good Barcelona are, i am watching prices like Giroud, Flamini etc get fucked....we knew we needed a striker in summer, we knew we needed a defensive minded midfielder in case Coqulain gets injured but the bumbling fucktard Wenger buys one fuckign player a keeper as he thinks the shower of shit he has assembled will be good enough.

Well lets say bye to Ozil, as he must look around and think what the fuck am i doing with these idiots, Sanchez will follow and then Wenger will fuck off leaving us in worse straights than fucking Utd who at least spend money......our fucking American cunt of an owner will buy more cabins to fucking shag in then spend on player and the wanker will continue to take his cunt consulting fee fucking wanker.

Otherwise not a bad showing lads.

[Ralpheroo72]

Were in the game and had some decent openings but failed to make the most of them and with barca u know they will create chances and they were ruthless.

Alexis was shocking second half, kept losing the ball.

Alexis hasnt been very good of late, mind you, Wenger hasnt been good for 10 years.

[Letters]

You know, that's the first time I've noticed what a load of cheating twats Barca are. Diving at every opportunity, feigning being shot at the slightest touch. Do they really need to do that when they're that good?
Disappointing because it was mostly a good performance. Obviously we were outplayed but most teams will be, we were generally containing them, had a few half chances ourselves. Then one good breakaway and then a poor touch by Merts (who otherwise I thought played very well) and Flamini fouling Messi and it's all over.
Ah well, we were never going to beat them over 2 legs, play the kids out there I reckon and let's get our title challenge back on track.

[Power n Glory]

Whatever, the fact that a player like Mertersacker is even playing in a game like this, says it all.

Merts played well. Wasn't raped as everyone thought.

[Dein-machine]

Were in the game and had some decent openings but failed to make the most of them and with barca u know they will create chances and they were ruthless.

Alexis was shocking second half, kept losing the ball.

That's why they wanted to sell him - not good enough for them in keeping the ball. He's actually n better than Theo or Ox when it comes to a footballing brain but he looks great for us because of the dross forwards that Wenger relies on.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Alexis hasnt been very good of late, mind you, Wenger hasnt been good for 10 years.

He was excellent in the first half - there was no way he could have sustained that.

[Globalgunner]

We are nothing if not consistent. Welcome to this year, same as last year and the year before....same as the next 3 years btw

[Dein-machine]

Merts played well. Wasn't raped as everyone thought.

He did alright until he's clearance for the pen. He has a real problem when it comes to clearing a football - school boy stuff.

[hobson's choice]

Merts played well. Wasn't raped as everyone thought.

Yeah he played well, but when it mattered he flopped on a rountine situation.

At this point of his career he has no business playing for team that "wants" to challenge for major honours.

[Power n Glory]

Great effort from everyone.

Lack of quality from Wenget and the average supporting crew of Giroud, Ox, Theo, Flamini and although gallant but ultimately limited Per. So as we were and another at least 2 to 3 years of the same or maybe worse to go.

Ozil and Alexis will not stick around for this shite, good luck to them.

Sanchez was bad in that game. One of the worst on the pitch and up there with Giroud. Gave the ball away too many times, reckless passing and we were lucky it didn't cost us. He needs to step it up and shouldn't escape criticism. Same goes for Ozil. It wasn't enough.

Defence had a decent game especially Cech and Monreal. Thought Merts played well also but could have done better clearing that ball. Kos was ok too but one or jitters and taken out of play charging over to the wing once again for that first goal.

[Master Splinter]

Merts played well. Wasn't raped as everyone thought.

He almost never is. Most people don't seem to watch football, they just regurgitate nonsensical cliches and untruths. It's worse when previously level-headed supporters who are upset at the club decide to disengage their brains and join in with the idiocy because RAGE is all they have left.

[Kano]

You know, that's the first time I've noticed what a load of cheating twats Barca are. Diving at every opportunity, feigning being shot at the slightest touch. Do they really need to do that when they're that good?
Disappointing because it was mostly a good performance. Obviously we were outplayed but most teams will be, we were generally containing them, had a few half chances ourselves. Then one good breakaway and then a poor touch by Merts (who otherwise I thought played very well) and Flamini fouling Messi and it's all over.
Ah well, we were never going to beat them over 2 legs, play the kids out there I reckon and let's get our title challenge back on track.

The first time?? What on earth have you been watching all these years? A horrible non-tax contributing club, wrapped up in this 'more than a club' bs, full of horrible, diving footballers, no matter how talented they may be. Real Madrid are exactly the same.

[dostoy]

We will not win the CL or the PL with Wenger in charge.

His dated ideas and locked principles will ensure this happens again and again.

He is a tight bastard as well and that will not change.

We need a new manager, I have thought this for years and two fuck all cups have not changed my mind at all.

[Kano]

He almost never is. Most people don't seem to watch football, they just regurgitate nonsensical cliches and untruths. It's worse when previously level-headed supporters who are upset at the club decide to disengage their brains and join in with the idiocy because RAGE is all they have left.

Thankfully it's a game of two halves and the lads gave it their best.

Cunts!

[Niall_Quinn]

So this is what all these years of austerity was for....so 60k people could watch us defend like bitches in a premier Euro competion.

Weren't we told that we would be buying such a magnificant stadium to COMPETE with such clubs as Barcelona not watch in awe at our inferior players get spanked.

The worst part is we could of had one of their best players in Suarez if these cheap fucking bastards hadn't fucked around with bids of £40m....plus £1....or if our fucking shit scouting system was fixed so we could find gems again.

This is years of fucking mediocrity, i don't care how fucking good Barcelona are, i am watching prices like Giroud, Flamini etc get fucked....we knew we needed a striker in summer, we knew we needed a defensive minded midfielder in case Coqulain gets injured but the bumbling fucktard Wenger buys one fuckign player a keeper as he thinks the shower of shit he has assembled will be good enough.

Well lets say bye to Ozil, as he must look around and think what the fuck am i doing with these idiots, Sanchez will follow and then Wenger will fuck off leaving us in worse straights than fucking Utd who at least spend money......our fucking American cunt of an owner will buy more cabins to fucking shag in then spend on player and the wanker will continue to take his cunt consulting fee fucking wanker.

Otherwise not a bad showing lads.

That's the sum of it, particularly the part in bold which the Tys of this world will ignore while they talk about a solid and encouraging performance against a team we couldn't expect to beat. Even though that's EXACTLY what the 100% increase in ticket prices was sold on - competing with and beating the very top teams.

Misleading if you're kind, fraud to be accurate.

[fakeyank]

Giroud has been good this season but he is completely useless when we have so little of the ball.

Ramsey is a liability.. how on earth Elneny and Coq didnt start in the middle is a mystery.

Our manager is shit.

[Niall_Quinn]

You know, that's the first time I've noticed what a load of cheating twats Barca are. Diving at every opportunity, feigning being shot at the slightest touch. Do they really need to do that when they're that good?
Disappointing because it was mostly a good performance. Obviously we were outplayed but most teams will be, we were generally containing them, had a few half chances ourselves. Then one good breakaway and then a poor touch by Merts (who otherwise I thought played very well) and Flamini fouling Messi and it's all over.
Ah well, we were never going to beat them over 2 legs, play the kids out there I reckon and let's get our title challenge back on track.

Literally a few seconds after my last post :haha:

But seriously, you haven't noticed Barca cheat? WTF? Where have you been?

[Niall_Quinn]

Merts played well. Wasn't raped as everyone thought.

He got skinned several times. Neymar walked past him on one occasion, literally walked. He's so far below the standard we need at a big club like Arsenal it's just not funny any more. Decent bloke, no doubt, but this is a football club not a hostel.

[Power n Glory]

He almost never is. Most people don't seem to watch football, they just regurgitate nonsensical cliches and untruths. It's worse when previously level-headed supporters who are upset at the club decide to disengage their brains and join in with the idiocy because RAGE is all they have left.

It really is ridiculous. It wasn't a horror show by the defence and we looked organised. Always thought he'd be the better option for this sort of game. It was at the other end where we had a serious problem and that's where the lack of pace and quality really showed.

[Gooner23]

The first time?? What on earth have you been watching all these years? A horrible non-tax contributing club, wrapped up in this 'more than a club' bs, full of horrible, diving footballers, no matter how talented they may be. Real Madrid are exactly the same.

I've hated them for years for it, cheating scum. El Clasico is billed as the greatest thing you'll ever watch on tv but I can't stand it. Just two teams trying to out cheat each other.

As for Arsenal we're lacking in quality in key areas and have a manager that can not / will not make the required changes to have us competing with the big boys. It's why I remain very doubtful we'll win the league this year. Obviously Barca are on a different level to anything we'll face in the league, but I still get that feeling Wenger's tactics and selections combined with the impotency of our forwards will cost us the title.

[dostoy]

Ramsey is a liability.. how on earth Elneny and Coq didnt start in the middle is a mystery.

I wanted Coq and Elneny as well.

When I saw it was'nt to be, I knew we would lose.

[Kano]

I've hated them for years for it, cheating scum. El Clasico is billed as the greatest thing you'll ever watch on tv but I can't stand it. Just two teams trying to out cheat each other.

As for Arsenal we're lacking in quality in key areas and have a manager that can not / will not make the required changes to have us competing with the big boys. It's why I remain very doubtful we'll win the league this year. Obviously Barca are on a different level to anything we'll face in the league, but I still get that feeling Wenger's tactics and selections combined with the impotency of our forwards will cost us the title.

The one thing we've always been able to rely on, even during the past decade, is our ability to score goals. That has seriously dried up since the turn of the year and unless that changed immediately, we can wave the title goodbye.

[Power n Glory]

He got skinned several times. Neymar walked past him on one occasion, literally walked. He's so far below the standard we need at a big club like Arsenal it's just not funny any more. Decent bloke, no doubt, but this is a football club not a hostel.

You need to get a better stream. You missed the amount of mistakes Kos made tonight as usual. The main chance Neymar had was when Kos was playing him on side and forced a good save by Cech. Kos was napping for that Suarez header that narrowly missed. Kos was nutmegged twice and one led to a goal.

You missed a good chunk of the blocks, important blocks Merts made.

[Niall_Quinn]

You need to get a better stream. You missed the amount of mistakes Kos made tonight as usual. The main chance Neymar had was when Kos was playing him on side and forced a good save by Cech. Kos was napping for that Suarez header that narrowly missed. Kos was nutmegged twice and one led to a goal.

You missed a good chunk of the blocks, important blocks Merts made.

How do you know I missed mistakes made by Kos? We weren't even talking about him, we were talking about the second tier player who lumbers along beside him and if you can say, hand on heart, he's what we need to win titles and go to CL finals then fair play. Your opinion.

Except he's not.

Obviously.

[Kano]

Theo had 7 touches of the ball tonight :lol:

[Power n Glory]

How do you know I missed mistakes made by Kos? We weren't even talking about him, we were talking about the second tier player who lumbers along beside him and if you can say, hand on heart, he's what we need to win titles and go to CL finals then fair play. Your opinion.

Except he's not.

Obviously.

Because you fail to mention them. Neymar didn't give us much trouble. The two chances I recall from him was down to Kos mistake sitting too deep and a shot Merts blocked but the ball found it's way to Suarez who hit the post.

Be fair in your judgment. The blindspots and over criticism of Merts is almost as bad as the job you were doing on Monreal when he first arrived. Not once did I feel like our defence were wobbling in that game. A few mistakes and I think Bellerin could have done better on attack but all in all, I think Cech, Monreal and Merts had good games.

[Munchies]

ozil/ fairy fucking cunt alves
https://vine.co/v/ir3upUeOIuh

:lol:

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FWq4Wb3hb8

even they're saying the tie is done pretty much.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We defended mostly quite well. We Dortmunded ourselves again though.

[Munchies]

Olivier Giroud has now failed to score in EIGHT consecutive games across all competitions for Arsenal.

[Niall_Quinn]

Because you fail to mention them. Neymar didn't give us much trouble. The two chances I recall from him was down to Kos mistake sitting too deep and a shot Merts blocked but the ball found it's way to Suarez who hit the post.

Be fair in your judgment. The blindspots and over criticism of Merts is almost as bad as the job you were doing on Monreal when he first arrived. Not once did I feel like our defence were wobbling in that game. A few mistakes and I think Bellerin could have done better on attack but all in all, I think Cech, Monreal and Merts had good games.

Hold on a minute - I didn't say the defence was bad tonight. I was responding to some post in defence of Merts and apart from a few incidents he was fine along with the rest of them. That's because Bellerin, Monreal, Coq and Ramsey did an awful lot of work - a huge amount. Ox too, defensively in the first half.

I'm saying time is up with Wenger and his lower shelf shopping bargains - Merts being one of them. Proper manager and proper players needed now. A decade of this stupid shit is enough.

[Power n Glory]

We defended mostly quite well. We Dortmunded ourselves again though.

Wenger did mention the Monaco game in his post match comments. Too gung ho on attack and it sounds like it's something he warned them about.

[Letters]

The first time?? What on earth have you been watching all these years? A horrible non-tax contributing club, wrapped up in this 'more than a club' bs, full of horrible, diving footballers, no matter how talented they may be. Real Madrid are exactly the same.

I don't watch loads of football these days, I guess.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger did mention the Monaco game in his post match comments. Too gung ho on attack and it sounds like it's something he warned them about.

Has he managed to find an angle to shift the blame - again?

[Marc Overmars]

Oh well, at least we always qualify from the group eh?

I thought we played ok in patches but always ran the risk of getting picked off if we didn't take any chances. Textbook really.

Hard to care about the result but what I do care about is how woefully out of form our forwards are. As I said after the Hull game, if we don't win the league this year it will be because our attack is garbage.

Season is in the balance. We need to shape up quickly.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't watch loads of football these days, I guess.

You don't remember that hilarious CL tie where their ref was so outrageous I ended up hoping a bunch of chavs would win? The one where Drogba went ballistic? That's Barca's finest hour. Or when RvC was sent off by their ref because the crowd was too noisy? Plus many. many more greatest hits from the second biggest cheats in the business.

[Power n Glory]

Olivier Giroud has now failed to score in EIGHT consecutive games across all competitions for Arsenal.

Predictable. Best moment from him was when he got a header on the ball. Other than that, it wasn't his sort of game. Wenger should have been looking for an alternative option and preparing as soon as we drew Barca. It was always going to be a game where we'd have little possession but could create from quick counters.

That spell in the 2nd half where we started to get on top of them and hold possession was our undoing. Well, that and poor quality in the final third.

[Power n Glory]

Has he managed to find an angle to shift the blame - again?

It's crazy. We did our homework for this one and he knew what to expect from Barca and this type of game but he made some silly decisions. Giroud was never a fit for this or game or the tactics we were going with. Ox has no end product. Doesn't assist or score but he gets the start. Ox was obviously injured but he kept him on for the 2nd half and that could have costs us when Neymar broke down the right to have a shot on goal.

We looked to have Barca rattled with the early subs we made but he then decides to sub off Coquelin for Flamini? Why? :shrug: Plus why wasn't Elmo on the bench and how comes he's not getting games at all?

We had a good chance to get something from tonight. Players have themselves to blame in certain areas but I really don't know what Wenger was expecting with that team selection.

[Letters]

You don't remember that hilarious CL tie where their ref was so outrageous I ended up hoping a bunch of chavs would win? The one where Drogba went ballistic? That's Barca's finest hour. Or when RvC was sent off by their ref because the crowd was too noisy? Plus many. many more greatest hits from the second biggest cheats in the business.

Obviously I remember those but the Chelsea one was hilarious because it was Chelsea.
The RVC one...that was just the ref cheating to be fair, not the Barca players.

[IBK]

You know, that's the first time I've noticed what a load of cheating twats Barca are. Diving at every opportunity, feigning being shot at the slightest touch. Do they really need to do that when they're that good?
Disappointing because it was mostly a good performance. Obviously we were outplayed but most teams will be, we were generally containing them, had a few half chances ourselves. Then one good breakaway and then a poor touch by Merts (who otherwise I thought played very well) and Flamini fouling Messi and it's all over.
Ah well, we were never going to beat them over 2 legs, play the kids out there I reckon and let's get our title challenge back on track.

This. I thought it was a decent effort for 2/3 of the game, and I thought the manager's tactics were sound. 2 mistakes - and Barca will kill you, and they did. Only issue I have is Wenger subbing the Coq. I think it was done with one eye on the Manure fixture, and this is what I don't like - play the game you are in, not the one you are about to play - particularly against a team like Barcelona. I'm sad rather than angry because I thought we deserved better than the result...

[IBK]

It really is ridiculous. It wasn't a horror show by the defence and we looked organised. Always thought he'd be the better option for this sort of game. It was at the other end where we had a serious problem and that's where the lack of pace and quality really showed.

I agree with this.

[Kano]

Obviously I remember those but the Chelsea one was hilarious because it was Chelsea.
The RVC one...that was just the ref cheating to be fair, not the Barca players.

When they play in a league where is it within the laws for one team to pay another as an incentive to perform better against their rivals, that is where the lines become blurred. So the incessant cheating is a knock on effect of the entitlement they believe they have to win and always be protected by the ref and authorities.

[IBK]

When they play in a league where is it within the laws for one team to pay another as an incentive to perform better against their rivals, that is where the lines become blurred. So the incessant cheating is a knock on effect of the entitlement they believe they have to win and always be protected by the ref and authorities.

Thought the ref was very pro Barca tonight, TBF.

[Kano]

Thought the ref was very pro Barca tonight, TBF.

It's a common theme and it's no coincidence that many teams across the years have been left feeling the referee has been their 12th man.

[Letters]

Thought the ref was very pro Barca tonight, TBF.

I didn't generally think that but that challenge by Coq which was perfectly timed, he clearly got the ball first.
But, of course, the Barca player rolls around like a fanny screaming his head off and it's given as a foul :rolleyes:

[Letters]

Thought the ref was very pro Barca tonight, TBF.

I didn't generally think that but that challenge by Coq which was perfectly timed, he clearly got the ball first.
But, of course, the Barca player rolls around like a fanny screaming his head off and it's given as a foul :rolleyes:

[IBK]

I didn't generally think that but that challenge by Coq which was perfectly timed, he clearly got the ball first.
But, of course, the Barca player rolls around like a fanny screaming his head off and it's given as a foul :rolleyes:

Jodi Alba vs Giroud? The free kicks we weren't given? The Ramsey tackle that was deemed a foul....

[Marc Overmars]

For a while I thought we could nick a draw but the lack of incisiveness in our play was very evident. They all just seem consumed with fear, no one wants to take any responsibility as summed up by Giroud opting to pass when he had some space in the box to have a clear shot on goal. Even Alexis has lost his mind.

It's really rancid right now, you can't help but fear for our title challenge if this carries on. We can't expect to win anything with such a horribly out of form attack.

[Niall_Quinn]

For a while I thought we could nick a draw but the lack of incisiveness in our play was very evident. They all just seem consumed with fear, no one wants to take any responsibility as summed up by Giroud opting to pass when he had some space in the box to have a clear shot on goal. Even Alexis has lost his mind.

It's really rancid right now, you can't help but fear for our title challenge if this carries on. We can't expect to win anything with such a horribly out of form attack.

Change the manager today and we win the title. Don't change him and we don't win the title.

[Power n Glory]

For a while I thought we could nick a draw but the lack of incisiveness in our play was very evident. They all just seem consumed with fear, no one wants to take any responsibility as summed up by Giroud opting to pass when he had some space in the box to have a clear shot on goal. Even Alexis has lost his mind.

It's really rancid right now, you can't help but fear for our title challenge if this carries on. We can't expect to win anything with such a horribly out of form attack.

We should have swapped out Giroud a month ago. He has totally lost his way again. Sanchez is looking in bad shape. Ramsey can't hit a barn door at the moment. Ozil isn't getting many chances on goal..Wenger has to change things around. Welbeck is looking pretty sharp and it may be worth giving him a shot up front. We can't just keep trying with the same line up and hoping for the best.

[Munchies]

We should have swapped out Giroud a month ago. He has totally lost his way again. Sanchez is looking in bad shape. Ramsey can't hit a barn door at the moment. Ozil isn't getting many chances on goal..Wenger has to change things around. Welbeck is looking pretty sharp and it may be worth giving him a shot up front. We can't just keep trying with the same line up and hoping for the best.

:gp:

Bring Campbell back into the fold too

do something different

[Marc Overmars]

Welbeck looks hungry so it's worth giving him a shot, but then again admirably running around a lot is a trait of his. I'm not sure if he's ever going to be a 20+ striker.

Basically it all smells of wee right now. I don't understand how Wenger has managed to create a team that not only struggle to construct meaningful play, but also lack a killer instinct infront of goal. "YOU ARE ALLOWED TO FUCKING SHOOT" was what the bloke near me kept shouting tonight. :lol:

WUMger has become far too pragmatic in his old age, he knows he limitations of his team but just rolls with it.

[Power n Glory]

I'd settle for one that can score 10!

[Niall_Quinn]

We should have swapped out Giroud a month ago. He has totally lost his way again. Sanchez is looking in bad shape. Ramsey can't hit a barn door at the moment. Ozil isn't getting many chances on goal..Wenger has to change things around. Welbeck is looking pretty sharp and it may be worth giving him a shot up front. We can't just keep trying with the same line up and hoping for the best.

Why? We've been doing it for 10 years. Maybe next time it will be better.

[Niall_Quinn]

Welbeck looks hungry so it's worth giving him a shot, but then again admirably running around a lot is a trait of his. I'm not sure if he's ever going to be a 20+ striker.

Basically it all smells of wee right now. I don't understand how Wenger has managed to create a team that not only struggle to construct meaningful play, but also lack a killer instinct infront of goal. "YOU ARE ALLOWED TO FUCKING SHOOT" was what the bloke near me kept shouting tonight. :lol:

WUMger has become far too pragmatic in his old age, he knows he limitations of his team but just rolls with it.

He might not get 20 but he can run with a ball without club footing it 50 yards ahead of him and he's showing confidence. The way the team is passing and shooting right now any small advantage would be appreciated. And tell Campbell you are allowed to shoot. Or Elneny. Where are they now?

[Niall_Quinn]

It's crazy. We did our homework for this one and he knew what to expect from Barca and this type of game but he made some silly decisions. Giroud was never a fit for this or game or the tactics we were going with. Ox has no end product. Doesn't assist or score but he gets the start. Ox was obviously injured but he kept him on for the 2nd half and that could have costs us when Neymar broke down the right to have a shot on goal.

We looked to have Barca rattled with the early subs we made but he then decides to sub off Coquelin for Flamini? Why? :shrug: Plus why wasn't Elmo on the bench and how comes he's not getting games at all?

We had a good chance to get something from tonight. Players have themselves to blame in certain areas but I really don't know what Wenger was expecting with that team selection.

He's a self-fulfilling fuck-up. He only got the tactics right tonight because he's removed any element that would have given him a choice. Of course if you scrape the bargain bucket for players to fill key positions then you will come off worse when you are on a pitch with Suarez, the guy he wanted to pay the release clause plus a quid for. Doesn't that just sum Wenger up so perfectly? +£1, there's probably a rule that states transfer bids must be rounded to the nearest pound otherwise he'd have offered just the extra penny. And the guy he thought was only worth the extra quid has 40+ goals. Where would we be today with those 40 goals - for a player that had already done the business in the PL FFS!? What now for an extra £10mill tagged onto that Suarez bid?

The super irritating thing is even with all Wenger's many, many fuck-ups the team showed a bit of discipline tonight and stuck to the task. And with a finisher up top there's nothing to say we couldn't be heading off to Spain next month with a couple of goals advantage. We made some good chances. But there's always a Wenger roadblock or pitfall waiting. Exactly, his genius move tonight was to use the pace of Giroud in our counter-attacking set up. A real master stroke, or maybe just the result of a stroke. So it doesn't really matter how much the players give, Wenger can do things that will nullify their best efforts. Not deliberately of course, but through sheer incompetence. And the the Flamini thing. When do we call the doctor on this guy? If you see your granddad wandering in traffic with a glazed expression you move him into your home or find him somewhere to live where there are people watching out for him. At Arsenal the senile old fool gets to direct the fucking traffic. It's absurd.

[Munchies]

The Giroud/Alba incident again

vid: https://streamable.com/s/soccer?first=9kv6

:haha:

What a diving pussio midget cunt. Giroud should've just punched him and got red carded, would've been more useful off the pitch

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Flamini basically gave a pen away before he managed to touch the ball when he came on.....

Just stop with this now peeerlease...... Gordon bloody Bennett!

[Master Splinter]

Flamini has become WUMger's finest WUM.

We all wondered whether he had something special up his sleeve and he has really delivered.

Not sure he'll outdo himself here.

[topgun]

Flamini basically gave a pen away before he managed to touch the ball when he came on.....

Just stop with this now peeerlease...... Gordon bloody Bennett!

When you have the like's of this guy getting into your team sums it up for me.One word for me sums up where we are as a football club "stagnation".It really has gone way past the time for change.

[Munchies]

Flamini has become WUMger's finest WUM.

We all wondered whether he had something special up his sleeve and he has really delivered.

Not sure he'll outdo himself here.

Someone in the match thread said Wenger wanted shares in his company

Accurate imo :coffee:

[Marc Overmars]

Just watching the highlights now, didn't realise how much of a sitter the Oxlade chance was. The whole goal to aim for but he scuffs it at the keeper on the deck. :doh:

Fine margins and as usual we fall on the wrong side of them.

[adzzzbatch]

Just got home and fuck it. We bossed the 1st half, lost shape in the 2nd conceded and then flamini happened. the rest is history. I was more fucked off with the cunts that left with 10 mins to go, yeah we were 0-1 but support the team FFS!!!!!!

[Munchies]

Just got home and fuck it. We bossed the 1st half, lost shape in the 2nd conceded and then flamini happened. the rest is history. I was more fucked off with the cunts that left with 10 mins to go, yeah we were 0-1 but support the team FFS!!!!!!

Yeah Flamini was at fault

Most people are forgetting Mertesacker shitting the bed which led to that though

Agreed on that, fucking cunts

[Ernesto]

Great effort from everyone.

Lack of quality from Wenget and the average supporting crew of Giroud, Ox, Theo, Flamini and although gallant but ultimately limited Per. So as we were and another at least 2 to 3 years of the same or maybe worse to go.

Ozil and Alexis will not stick around for this shite, good luck to them.

Let the pair of em f*** off. If they want to leave, they can leave. If anything it helps the next manager keep the very players that want to play for the shirt.

[selassie]

I thought we actually played quite well last night. Shame we couldn't put away one of the chances we created. Last night was clearly evident that we lack the required quality in key areas and if we don't upgrade those areas then I fail to see we are going to progress and improve as a CL team.

Nothing much else to say really, the tie was settled last night.

[Bumble]

Thought we were well in the game up til 70 mins and we really should have scored. Yet again we concede on the counter attack 0-0 would have been a half decent result. I went last night and thought the barca fans were very quiet I suppose after a while the novelty of messi scoring and a barca win does wear off.

It would be interesting to see what Wenger does in the 2nd leg as we really have no chance, as we will concede and for us to score 3 times we will need about 100 chances. Arsenal should just play the reserves and cover all the cost of the fans who are travelling over there

Funnily enough Cech hadn't conceded a goal against Messi until he played for us and now Messi has scored 8 against us.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I can't be disappointed in the result as I expected it to be even worse. However, what is of concern was how many opportunities we managed to create only for them all to go unfinished. 180 minutes of cup tie play at home this week and 0 goals to show for it.

There has been a lot said about Ox's miss, but Jesus H, what the hell was going through Giroud's mind when with a clear opportunity at goal he lays the ball off to...nobody? I can't figure that out at all. He is the main striker, has an excellent opportunity against the best teamin the world and decides - literally to pass on that opportunity. What striker does that?

This has been yet another predictably disappointing season to this point and unless something changes dramatically and soon, like Giroud, we as a team are collectively passing up on the best chance of success we've had in over a decade.

[Power n Glory]

I can't be disappointed in the result as I expected it to be even worse. However, what is of concern was how many opportunities we managed to create only for them all to go unfinished. 180 minutes of cup tie play at home this week and 0 goals to show for it.

There has been a lot said about Ox's miss, but Jesus H, what the hell was going through Giroud's mind when with a clear opportunity at goal he lays the ball off to...nobody? I can't figure that out at all. He is the main striker, has an excellent opportunity against the best teamin the world and decides - literally to pass on that opportunity. What striker does that?

This has been yet another predictably disappointing season to this point and unless something changes dramatically and soon, like Giroud, we as a team are collectively passing up on the best chance of success we've had in over a decade.


https://twitter.com/JOE_co_uk/status/702239518691356673

That’s the problem with Giroud. When he’s in the box, ball to feet, he mostly looks to pass. I have no idea why he’d look to pass to Theo in that situation. It makes no sense to pass it there. He’s on his preferred left foot so you’d have thought he’d be looking up and towards goal for the shot or if he can play the ball across goal. Senseless.

[Kano]

It would be interesting to see what Wenger does in the 2nd leg as we really have no chance, as we will concede and for us to score 3 times we will need about 100 chances. Arsenal should just play the reserves and cover all the cost of the fans who are travelling over there

Worst possible thing is to play the reserves. It just won't happen, so I think fans that for whatever bizarre reason think it is a good idea, need to face up to that reality.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If we weren't such a momentum/confidence team last night wouldn't worry me at all as I thought the performance was decent especially from a defensive sense

It seems a bit odd to complain about our lack of firepower when we have known for months this was an issue and we should have gone all out for a striker in the summer.

Giroud just looked out of his depth at this level

[Marc Overmars]

https://twitter.com/JOE_co_uk/status/702239518691356673

That’s the problem with Giroud. When he’s in the box, ball to feet, he mostly looks to pass. I have no idea why he’d look to pass to Theo in that situation. It makes no sense to pass it there. He’s on his preferred left foot so you’d have thought he’d be looking up and towards goal for the shot or if he can play the ball across goal. Senseless.

I was sitting right in front of that. Really poor from Bif, just bloody have a shot, the angle was perfect for him. Shows how low confidence is right now. Unfortuantley he is showing why all the doubts about him exist, as great as he can be at times he's far too patchy to be considered top class.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Giroud would be excellent if he was being managed by someone who knew what he was doing.

I didn't think we were that far apart from Barca last night, and with proper tactics and the right team picked and subs we could have beat them.

Wenger has ingrained in every player that you have to pass the ball a million times and wait for it to end up in the back of the net. No need to shoot.

We have seen it a million times and we have seen it fail 952,000 of them.

Wenger is the main problem with this team and until he goes we won't see any better results.

[Power n Glory]

Giroud would be excellent if he was being managed by someone who knew what he was doing.

I didn't think we were that far apart from Barca last night, and with proper tactics and the right team picked and subs we could have beat them.

Wenger has ingrained in every player that you have to pass the ball a million times and wait for it to end up in the back of the net. No need to shoot.

We have seen it a million times and we have seen it fail 952,000 of them.

Wenger is the main problem with this team and until he goes we won't see any better results.

Would RVP make the same decision in that situation? I partly agree about the coaching but in that situation a striker should really be able to make the right decision. I wouldn’t even say passing was the ultimate sin in that situation. It’s the fact that he was in a dangerous area and chose to pass it right back out of a dangerous area. That’s an intelligence issue. Did he not see the opportunity?

[Niall_Quinn]

QUESTION:


There has been a lot said about Ox's miss, but Jesus H, what the hell was going through Giroud's mind when with a clear opportunity at goal he lays the ball off to...nobody? I can't figure that out at all. He is the main striker, has an excellent opportunity against the best teamin the world and decides - literally to pass on that opportunity. What striker does that?

ANSWER:


Giroud would be excellent if he was being managed by someone who knew what he was doing.

That moment stunk to high heaven of some sort of nonsense from a nonsense training ground. The same nonsense that sees the team play backwards when we get to the byline, or play backwards when a shooting opportunity presents itself. Some sort of possession and space and percentage chance of success bullshit, I would think, with all the spontaneity extracted and inspiration siphoned off.

There is a very seriously broken part in this machine and it's the one part the owners won't consider changing. Another 5 years of this could be extremely damaging in the long term. If Wenger can't sell his bullshit to another crop of talent that needs to dribble in over the next half decade so we can at least maintain our second class status we could end up going full circle, back to the days of Terry Neill with a billion quid having been squeezed through the club and out to two sets of leeches.

[Niall_Quinn]

‘Barcelona are a great team, we knew that before the game.

'We put a lot of energy in the game, but I believe technically we were very average overall.

‘The regret I have is that once we look like we are dominating the game in the last 15-20 minutes we give the goal away.

‘We had been disciplined defensively. We knew that if we have to keep a 0-0, we keep a 0-0. They are better than us. I believe everybody knows that.

‘I think we could have won the game tonight if we had kept the discipline until the end. And once again, like against Monaco, exactly the same, we were caught in exactly the same way.’

Not enough tippy-tappy, too much pace, not enough negativity. The players are to blame, the manager is blame free. But we almost won, just like we almost signed top strikers in transfer windows.

[Letters]

Barcelona are "95% through" to the Champions League quarter-finals, says Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger after his side lost 2-0 to the Spanish champions.

We're 5% from going through :bow:

[Power n Glory]

QUESTION:



ANSWER:



That moment stunk to high heaven of some sort of nonsense from a nonsense training ground. The same nonsense that sees the team play backwards when we get to the byline, or play backwards when a shooting opportunity presents itself. Some sort of possession and space and percentage chance of success bullshit, I would think, with all the spontaneity extracted and inspiration siphoned off.

There is a very seriously broken part in this machine and it's the one part the owners won't consider changing. Another 5 years of this could be extremely damaging in the long term. If Wenger can't sell his bullshit to another crop of talent that needs to dribble in over the next half decade so we can at least maintain our second class status we could end up going full circle, back to the days of Terry Neill with a billion quid having been squeezed through the club and out to two sets of leeches.

Giroud wouldn’t be starting if he played under Pep or Klopp. He’s 29 and doesn’t have the feet or agility to score in tight spaces. Under a long ball coach that plays a direct style, he’d fair better. Most of his chances, best chances come when the ball is whipped in or looped in high. We saw that yesterday where he forced a good save. No idea what he was thinking yesterday with that other opportunity. It can’t be all down to the coaching. Put Sanchez, Ramsey, Welbeck, Walcott, Campbell, Ox in that situation, they’d be going for goal. They’d miss by a country mile :lol: but if the ball is on their preferred foot in that situation they’re looking for goal.

It boils down to intelligence, confidence and the mentality of the player in the final third. In the first two thirds of the game I believe we coach the tippy tappy stuff. When probing away and looking to create an opportunity, yes, I believe Wenger prefer we stay calm, keep possession and look for the ball. But when in the danger zone your instinct to sense a goal scoring opportunity should take over. It’s like an idiot still looking for the pass when the goal is open and the keeper is nowhere to be found. The players should be intelligent enough to break away from the coached philosophy. Use some damn initiative when it’s that blatant. They’re footballers not programmed robots.

On the flipside, you have cases where Wenger is encouraging players to go for goal. Take Ozil as an example, a player reluctant to shoot. He’s set him a goal target and wants him to go for goal more. With Theo, he’s said he needs to be more aggressive when going forward. I think Ox was set a goal target too. I’ll defend Wenger on this one. I think we sometimes try to hog possession and don’t go for long range punts enough but I also think he has bought players that can’t shoot or are very low on confidence in front of goal.

[Niall_Quinn]

We know Giroud can shoot, he's bloody good at it. Same for Theo and particularly Ox. Ox had a fantastic range of shooting techniques on him when he arrived here. We know Ramsey can shoot too. We know they can pass and we know they are very good at it when things go our way. It's like anything overcomplicated, doesn't have to be football. When there are 1,001 things to think about before you act then you probably won't act or you'll act too late or in a confused and stressed manner. Our game is way too complicated. Eye of the needle stuff. Very little directness. Too much patience, too much possession.

I believe Wenger has worked the players up their own backsides in terms of whatever it is he wants to see them doing on a pitch. Always the extra pass, why? When you get to the byline, cross the ball, get players in the box. Why do we often see Giroud behind a midfield player when the ball comes in? Why are we famous for having nobody in the box when a cross comes in? Why, when a Theo or Ox or Alexis makes a run into space do they have to check back because the ball has instead gone short, sideways, backwards? Is it too vulgar to hit the ball into that space and leverage the primary advantage of the players we have?

Why do you see Theo or Alexis on the flank with their back to goal waiting to receive the ball short and immediately lay it off, backwards? Why aren't they facing the goal? Why bother having Ozil at all when 99% of our stuff if just triangles up the pitch, triangles back down the pitch?

And then, after all that, we suddenly abandon all posts and rush up the pitch leaving huge holes in the middle and ripping our defence to shreds. Wenger was moaning that last night was the same as Monaco. He was clever enough not to mention that Monaco was like a hundred other incidents we've seen prior to that.

His coaching, his tactics, his responsibility so why is he trying to avoid it? He's just a lousy coach who keeps getting exposed over and over again. The whole history is out there for inspection, why is there still this pretence that Wenger is up there with the top or even average coaches? It's getting like the Rooney myth.

[Marc Overmars]

Just seen we play Everton away on the Saturday lunchtime following the 2nd leg, which is on a Wednesday. I was going to say we should play a strong team in the 2nd leg but because of the scheduling it's not really worth it. The league is absolutely everything now any delusions we may have had about knocking out Barca are gone.

[selassie]

Just seen we play Everton away on the Saturday lunchtime following the 2nd leg, which is on a Wednesday. I was going to say we should play a strong team in the 2nd leg but because of the scheduling it's not really worth it. The league is absolutely everything now any delusions we may have had about knocking out Barca are gone.

My thoughts too, we have 0% chance of progressing now, we won't score twice over there and won prevent them from scoring, we're out now, might aswell put a reserve side out there and concentrate on PL.

[selassie]

We know Giroud can shoot, he's bloody good at it. Same for Theo and particularly Ox. Ox had a fantastic range of shooting techniques on him when he arrived here. We know Ramsey can shoot too. We know they can pass and we know they are very good at it when things go our way. It's like anything overcomplicated, doesn't have to be football. When there are 1,001 things to think about before you act then you probably won't act or you'll act too late or in a confused and stressed manner. Our game is way too complicated. Eye of the needle stuff. Very little directness. Too much patience, too much possession.

I believe Wenger has worked the players up their own backsides in terms of whatever it is he wants to see them doing on a pitch. Always the extra pass, why? When you get to the byline, cross the ball, get players in the box. Why do we often see Giroud behind a midfield player when the ball comes in? Why are we famous for having nobody in the box when a cross comes in? Why, when a Theo or Ox or Alexis makes a run into space do they have to check back because the ball has instead gone short, sideways, backwards? Is it too vulgar to hit the ball into that space and leverage the primary advantage of the players we have?

Why do you see Theo or Alexis on the flank with their back to goal waiting to receive the ball short and immediately lay it off, backwards? Why aren't they facing the goal? Why bother having Ozil at all when 99% of our stuff if just triangles up the pitch, triangles back down the pitch?

And then, after all that, we suddenly abandon all posts and rush up the pitch leaving huge holes in the middle and ripping our defence to shreds. Wenger was moaning that last night was the same as Monaco. He was clever enough not to mention that Monaco was like a hundred other incidents we've seen prior to that.

His coaching, his tactics, his responsibility so why is he trying to avoid it? He's just a lousy coach who keeps getting exposed over and over again. The whole history is out there for inspection, why is there still this pretence that Wenger is up there with the top or even average coaches? It's getting like the Rooney myth.

Yep, Wenger doesn't have the right personnel to execute this over-complicated system he insists on trying to implement.

He needs better players in many of the keys positions.

The sad thing is we were beaten before a ball was kicked last night IMO, knowing full well that we had severe question marks hanging over the spine of the team, we were worried about Merts, worried about Central Midfield and worried about Giroud. Wenger will get nowhere if he doesn't upgrade certain positions and sort out his recruitment policy.

It honestly feels like he's trying to compete with one hand tied behind his back, it's ridiculous.

[Munchies]

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xal1/v/t1.0-9/12524267_10153968367124914_5730558974574997153_n.j pg?oh=6ca48193fd7e99bbb68b712111b170bb&oe=5754988D

#VoteOUT
#WengerOUT

[selassie]

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xal1/v/t1.0-9/12524267_10153968367124914_5730558974574997153_n.j pg?oh=6ca48193fd7e99bbb68b712111b170bb&oe=5754988D

#VoteOUT
#WengerOUT

:haha:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Gunnersaurus believes any supranational body is part of the global Jewish conspiracy

He makes some very interesting points but you can't help but feel his opinions are informed by racial hatred

[Power n Glory]

We know Giroud can shoot, he's bloody good at it. Same for Theo and particularly Ox. Ox had a fantastic range of shooting techniques on him when he arrived here. We know Ramsey can shoot too. We know they can pass and we know they are very good at it when things go our way. It's like anything overcomplicated, doesn't have to be football. When there are 1,001 things to think about before you act then you probably won't act or you'll act too late or in a confused and stressed manner. Our game is way too complicated. Eye of the needle stuff. Very little directness. Too much patience, too much possession.

I believe Wenger has worked the players up their own backsides in terms of whatever it is he wants to see them doing on a pitch. Always the extra pass, why? When you get to the byline, cross the ball, get players in the box. Why do we often see Giroud behind a midfield player when the ball comes in? Why are we famous for having nobody in the box when a cross comes in? Why, when a Theo or Ox or Alexis makes a run into space do they have to check back because the ball has instead gone short, sideways, backwards? Is it too vulgar to hit the ball into that space and leverage the primary advantage of the players we have?

Why do you see Theo or Alexis on the flank with their back to goal waiting to receive the ball short and immediately lay it off, backwards? Why aren't they facing the goal? Why bother having Ozil at all when 99% of our stuff if just triangles up the pitch, triangles back down the pitch?

And then, after all that, we suddenly abandon all posts and rush up the pitch leaving huge holes in the middle and ripping our defence to shreds. Wenger was moaning that last night was the same as Monaco. He was clever enough not to mention that Monaco was like a hundred other incidents we've seen prior to that.

His coaching, his tactics, his responsibility so why is he trying to avoid it? He's just a lousy coach who keeps getting exposed over and over again. The whole history is out there for inspection, why is there still this pretence that Wenger is up there with the top or even average coaches? It's getting like the Rooney myth.

Giroud can shoot but can’t create space for himself. He needs a pass that puts space between him and the defender to shoot otherwise he’s useless. He rarely gets a clean strike on goal unless it’s in the air. Ox can hit them hard but showed zero composure in front of goal. Chose the wrong technique to score in that situation and when he watches the game back, he’ll know he should have lifted the ball. Nobody has to coach that into him. It’s down to instinct and ability. You wouldn’t have to coach that into RVP, Henry or Bergkamp.

I agree about the positioning and tactical approach to certain games. The wingers coming short for the ball and drifting to the centre is an example of us trying to hold possession deep in our opponents half and create a goal scoring opportunity. I don’t have a problem with that. We play inverted inverted/attack minded wingers that want to score goals. Most teams play that way. You’ll see Robben’s goal against Bayern and some of Neymar’s attempts last night and they’re coming short, cutting cross the goal on their stronger foot trying to get a pop on goal. I have no problem with that. When the wing backs overlap, they can whip in the cross. You say our game is too complicated but that’s the modern game. Wingers don’t hug the chalk on the line anymore and look to cross. That’s not our game. It never was. We’ve always been unorthodox. Henry would drift out wide to the left with Pires moving more to the centre, Cashley was overlapping whilst Bergkamp was dropping deep and Freddie darting into the box from the right. When did we ever see Freddie and Pires whip in crosses for Henry and Bergkamp to get on the end of?

Sanchez trying to go forward with every touch of the ball is an example of how we get hit on the counter. Someone else said yesterday it’s why he was sold at Barca. Unless it’s a counter attacking situation, you need to have some sort of patience in the build up but know when to crank it up a gear and go for goal. But overall, we have a quality issue up front. Giroud is too stiff to play the game Wenger is trying to play. Too slow on the counter, too rigid to play in tight spaces. Theo on the wing is great at making runs but can’t dribble or create his own opportunities either. Or just won’t try to. Sanchez is just off form. I don’t know what we do about Ox. I think Wenger’s coaching is a problem but I wouldn’t use the Barca game as an example. Team selection and subs maybe but not tactical approach. We were in that game. Maybe he needs to have a word with our DM and CM when attacking for long periods. They drift to far up field and don’t cover. Could go on for ages about this.

[Munchies]

Giroud can shoot but can’t create space for himself. He needs a pass that puts space between him and the defender to shoot otherwise he’s useless. He rarely gets a clean strike on goal unless it’s in the air. Ox can hit them hard but showed zero composure in front of goal. Chose the wrong technique to score in that situation and when he watches the game back, he’ll know he should have lifted the ball. Nobody has to coach that into him. It’s down to instinct and ability. You wouldn’t have to coach that into RVP, Henry or Bergkamp.

I agree about the positioning and tactical approach to certain games. The wingers coming short for the ball and drifting to the centre is an example of us trying to hold possession deep in our opponents half and create a goal scoring opportunity. I don’t have a problem with that. We play inverted inverted/attack minded wingers that want to score goals. Most teams play that way. You’ll see Robben’s goal against Bayern and some of Neymar’s attempts last night and they’re coming short, cutting cross the goal on their stronger foot trying to get a pop on goal. I have no problem with that. When the wing backs overlap, they can whip in the cross. You say our game is too complicated but that’s the modern game. Wingers don’t hug the chalk on the line anymore and look to cross. That’s not our game. It never was. We’ve always been unorthodox. Henry would drift out wide to the left with Pires moving more to the centre, Cashley was overlapping whilst Bergkamp was dropping deep and Freddie darting into the box from the right. When did we ever see Freddie and Pires whip in crosses for Henry and Bergkamp to get on the end of?

Sanchez trying to go forward with every touch of the ball is an example of how we get hit on the counter. Someone else said yesterday it’s why he was sold at Barca. Unless it’s a counter attacking situation, you need to have some sort of patience in the build up but know when to crank it up a gear and go for goal. But overall, we have a quality issue up front. Giroud is too stiff to play the game Wenger is trying to play. Too slow on the counter, too rigid to play in tight spaces. Theo on the wing is great at making runs but can’t dribble or create his own opportunities either. Or just won’t try to. Sanchez is just off form. I don’t know what we do about Ox. I think Wenger’s coaching is a problem but I wouldn’t use the Barca game as an example. Team selection and subs maybe but not tactical approach. We were in that game. Maybe he needs to have a word with our DM and CM when attacking for long periods. They drift to far up field and don’t cover. Could go on for ages about this.

Great post. Same shit different season yet again

[Özil's Panoramic View]

It's all just so fucking stale.

One common denominator.

Just go ffs!

[IBK]

I thought we actually played quite well last night. Shame we couldn't put away one of the chances we created. Last night was clearly evident that we lack the required quality in key areas and if we don't upgrade those areas then I fail to see we are going to progress and improve as a CL team.

Nothing much else to say really, the tie was settled last night.

Yes. Good summary. I really don't feel that angry towards the team or Wenger for last night. What we needed against the best team in the world was a 100% flawless display - but that is an almost impossible feat to achieve in any game. Merts played well - apart from his mistake, but if we are objective how many CB's have games where they don't put a foot wrong - the difference is that they don't have Messi waiting to capitalise. Flamini didn't mean to give away the pen. We all know he's a loose cannon - but he was retained for cover and to a degree its not his fault that he is being used as a 'go to' guy lately.

Up front we are misfiring - but I don't buy simply that all our forward players are off form. Barca missed a few chances of their own, but these are forgotten when you win. What concerns me more is how ponderous we are in the build up; and how lacking in composure we are in front of goal. This looks to me like players trying too hard - and not finding the rhythm and understanding required. This particularly applied to Sanchez last night - whose biggest flaw in my view is trying to take on too much and do too much himself.

Yes - we can rail against Wenger for not bringing in a better striker - but for me that's a debate for elsewhere. Last night's results showed simply the difference between us and a world class team.

[Globalgunner]

Yes. Good summary. I really don't feel that angry towards the team or Wenger for last night. What we needed against the best team in the world was a 100% flawless display - but that is an almost impossible feat to achieve in any game. Merts played well - apart from his mistake, but if we are objective how many CB's have games where they don't put a foot wrong - the difference is that they don't have Messi waiting to capitalise. Flamini didn't mean to give away the pen. We all know he's a loose cannon - but he was retained for cover and to a degree its not his fault that he is being used as a 'go to' guy lately.

Up front we are misfiring - but I don't buy simply that all our forward players are off form. Barca missed a few chances of their own, but these are forgotten when you win. What concerns me more is how ponderous we are in the build up; and how lacking in composure we are in front of goal. This looks to me like players trying too hard - and not finding the rhythm and understanding required. This particularly applied to Sanchez last night - whose biggest flaw in my view is trying to take on too much and do too much himself.

Yes - we can rail against Wenger for not bringing in a better striker - but for me that's a debate for elsewhere. Last night's results showed simply the difference between us and a world class team.

And why is it that we dont have a world class team?

Too poor to afford it: Nope
Team in wrong location to attract players: Nope
Too small a stadium for big events: Nope

The answer is simple except for those too besotted with mediocrity or too afraid to fall behind 4th place:
PS. It is going to happen soon anyways.

[IBK]

Giroud wouldn’t be starting if he played under Pep or Klopp. He’s 29 and doesn’t have the feet or agility to score in tight spaces. Under a long ball coach that plays a direct style, he’d fair better. Most of his chances, best chances come when the ball is whipped in or looped in high. We saw that yesterday where he forced a good save. No idea what he was thinking yesterday with that other opportunity. It can’t be all down to the coaching. Put Sanchez, Ramsey, Welbeck, Walcott, Campbell, Ox in that situation, they’d be going for goal. They’d miss by a country mile :lol: but if the ball is on their preferred foot in that situation they’re looking for goal.

It boils down to intelligence, confidence and the mentality of the player in the final third. In the first two thirds of the game I believe we coach the tippy tappy stuff. When probing away and looking to create an opportunity, yes, I believe Wenger prefer we stay calm, keep possession and look for the ball. But when in the danger zone your instinct to sense a goal scoring opportunity should take over. It’s like an idiot still looking for the pass when the goal is open and the keeper is nowhere to be found. The players should be intelligent enough to break away from the coached philosophy. Use some damn initiative when it’s that blatant. They’re footballers not programmed robots.

On the flipside, you have cases where Wenger is encouraging players to go for goal. Take Ozil as an example, a player reluctant to shoot. He’s set him a goal target and wants him to go for goal more. With Theo, he’s said he needs to be more aggressive when going forward. I think Ox was set a goal target too. I’ll defend Wenger on this one. I think we sometimes try to hog possession and don’t go for long range punts enough but I also think he has bought players that can’t shoot or are very low on confidence in front of goal.

For once I'm not so sure I agree with you on this. I think Giroud has excellent feet and reactions for a big striker. His size means that he is not the most maneuverable in tight situations, but I think its a bit harsh to blame the player for this. I do feel that he is coached to lay off the ball for others, and to pick up one two's - and I would agree that his decision making last night reflected perhaps being wedded too much to this approach.

Striking wise I feel that our problem is that 90% of the time we deny ourselves any space in which to create proper chances. I've said before that our build up play compresses so many bodies in front of the opposition's goal that snatched chances or otherwise, it is almost impossible to score. We look impatient in the final third, and it hugely frustrates me to see so many of our final passes go astray - its almost as though there is no telepathy between the ball carriers and those whose job it is to make runs...unless its a piece of genius from Ozil, or Cazorla's on the pitch. This team looks unbalanced, and IMHO this is why scoring is being made to look so difficult.

[IBK]

And why is it that we dont have a world class team?

Too poor to afford it: Nope
Team in wrong location to attract players: Nope
Too small a stadium for big events: Nope

The answer is simple except for those too besotted with mediocrity or too afraid to fall behind 4th place:
PS. It is going to happen soon anyways.

Oh don't get me wrong - I feel that we are hindered by a manager in thrall to his own principles; and an owner/board wedded to making money most efficiently rather than winning things. But in terms of where we actually are and an analysis of last night's game wishful thinking is for another day.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yep, Wenger doesn't have the right personnel to execute this over-complicated system he insists on trying to implement.

He needs better players in many of the keys positions.

The sad thing is we were beaten before a ball was kicked last night IMO, knowing full well that we had severe question marks hanging over the spine of the team, we were worried about Merts, worried about Central Midfield and worried about Giroud. Wenger will get nowhere if he doesn't upgrade certain positions and sort out his recruitment policy.

It honestly feels like he's trying to compete with one hand tied behind his back, it's ridiculous.Whilst I agree with you about the transfer policy, it doesn't change the glaringly obvious fact that under a better manager we could have won last night quite easily.

Put out that team with Fergie or someone or pep, etc in charge and the result is completely different.

Whatever it is Wengers vision of what the players should be doing and how the game should be played is now, after 12 years, irrelevant and nothing more than a pipe dream.

It's like trying to finish a puzzle with parts from a different jigsaw and waiting for them to fit and make the picture look good, and when it fails, finding bits from another jigsaw and hoping for the same thing.

Never going to happen. Time to move on and try someone / something new.

[IBK]

Whilst I agree with you about the transfer policy, it doesn't change the glaringly obvious fact that under a better manager we could have won last night quite easily.

Put out that team with Fergie or someone or pep, etc in charge and the result is completely different.

Whatever it is Wengers vision of what the players should be doing and how the game should be played is now, after 12 years, irrelevant and nothing more than a pipe dream.

It's like trying to finish a puzzle with parts from a different jigsaw and waiting for them to fit and make the picture look good, and when it fails, finding bits from another jigsaw and hoping for the same thing.

Never going to happen. Time to move on and try someone / something new.

Really? I'm not sure that a different manager would have prevented the individual mistakes that led to Barca scoring - or put the ball in the net for us. Personally, I was quite surprised how effective Wenger's tactics were for the most part last night - both in terms of defending against their frightening strike force and creating chances.

[Kano]

Yes. Good summary. I really don't feel that angry towards the team or Wenger for last night. What we needed against the best team in the world was a 100% flawless display - but that is an almost impossible feat to achieve in any game. Merts played well - apart from his mistake, but if we are objective how many CB's have games where they don't put a foot wrong - the difference is that they don't have Messi waiting to capitalise. Flamini didn't mean to give away the pen. We all know he's a loose cannon - but he was retained for cover and to a degree its not his fault that he is being used as a 'go to' guy lately.

Up front we are misfiring - but I don't buy simply that all our forward players are off form. Barca missed a few chances of their own, but these are forgotten when you win. What concerns me more is how ponderous we are in the build up; and how lacking in composure we are in front of goal. This looks to me like players trying too hard - and not finding the rhythm and understanding required. This particularly applied to Sanchez last night - whose biggest flaw in my view is trying to take on too much and do too much himself.

Yes - we can rail against Wenger for not bringing in a better striker - but for me that's a debate for elsewhere. Last night's results showed simply the difference between us and a world class team.
The thing we’ve always been able to rely upon, even across the past ten years, has been a Wenger team that can score goals consistently. Even with the exact same squad last season, we were doing better than this. It is a mystery why now we’ve become so disastrous in-front of goal. Losing both Santi and Le Coq affected the cohesiveness of our midfield, something we haven’t got back since November.

Yet the chances are still being created but ultimately wasted. We used to have goals from midfield if the strikers weren’t firing – now we aren’t. Sanchez also needs to think about a different approach to his forward game. Everything he receives on the left is shifted onto his right, which defences in the Prem and Europe know, which is just as big a reason why he has been ineffective since his return from injury.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Really? I'm not sure that a different manager would have prevented the individual mistakes that led to Barca scoring - or put the ball in the net for us. Personally, I was quite surprised how effective Wenger's tactics were for the most part last night - both in terms of defending against their frightening strike force and creating chances.

Their frightening strike force really wasn't all that frightening for the first 70 mins.

And yes, really, it would be different.

We would More than likely have a more aggressive approach to winning, more desire to win, better training with set pieces and attacking options, a stronger & more drilled defence (even though they were pretty good tbf) and none of the useless sideways tippy tappy shit when we get to the 18 yard box.

That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure other people can fill in some more of the blanks with this.

A new direction is needed, has been for years and years.

[Letters]

And why is it that we dont have a world class team?

Too poor to afford it: Nope
Team in wrong location to attract players: Nope
Too small a stadium for big events: Nope

The answer is simple except for those too besotted with mediocrity or too afraid to fall behind 4th place:

There isn't a team in England who can live with Barca despite other teams spending significantly more than us on their squads.


PS. It is going to happen soon anyways.
So people have been saying for the last 5 years...

[IBK]

The thing we’ve always been able to rely upon, even across the past ten years, has been a Wenger team that can score goals consistently. Even with the exact same squad last season, we were doing better than this. It is a mystery why now we’ve become so disastrous in-front of goal. Losing both Santi and Le Coq affected the cohesiveness of our midfield, something we haven’t got back since November.

Yet the chances are still being created but ultimately wasted. We used to have goals from midfield if the strikers weren’t firing – now we aren’t. Sanchez also needs to think about a different approach to his forward game. Everything he receives on the left is shifted onto his right, which defences in the Prem and Europe know, which is just as big a reason why he has been ineffective since his return from injury.

Yes - but we were scoring far more freely earlier in the season. I don't know if this is reflected in the stats, but so many of our chances ATM seem to be snatched opportunities inside and around the opposition's box - and for sure we don't have a goal poacher in the team. How many times does the opposition's goalkeeper seem to have an outstanding game - meaning that we may have a lot of shots but they are saveable. For me there are 2 issues. First, we are undoubtedly unbalanced without Cazorla in MF - and its a bit of a worry that our midfield has seemed like a constant experiment for much of the past 5 years - and that no other player seems to be able to replicate what Santi does. Second (and undoubtedly related) is our transition from MF forwards. This is either ponderous (if we retain the ball) or hurried, and we end up simply conceding possession in the final third.


Barca last night was an object lesson in how to control a game. Their attempts to find an opening were easily dealt with by us in the first half, so in the second half they concentrated on keeping possession, and waiting for that one opening that would bring the opportunity. Unlike us, they were very patient, and generally waited for a clear opportunity to pass to a player with some space before attempting anything. When we try the same, so often there is no real opportunity on for the forward player, or we else get the pass wrong.


So maybe our players are low on confidence/composure, but for me, our system and its execution is the main problem.

[IBK]

Their frightening strike force really wasn't all that frightening for the first 70 mins.

And yes, really, it would be different.

We would More than likely have a more aggressive approach to winning, more desire to win, better training with set pieces and attacking options, a stronger & more drilled defence (even though they were pretty good tbf) and none of the useless sideways tippy tappy shit when we get to the 18 yard box.

That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure other people can fill in some more of the blanks with this.

A new direction is needed, has been for years and years.

The frightening strike force was not frightening because we dealt with it - and I think that our manager and players deserve some credit for that. I don't think that a more aggressive approach would have worked either - it would have left us more exposed and more than likely brought a conceded goal sooner. I am with you in relation to the criticisms of our approach - that has been our undoing several times this season. But last night was simply down to a couple of defensive errors for which we were punished, and one or two instances of profligate finishing - not the team set up, tactics or system.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think it's hard for us to go out at the last sixteen for the sixth season in a row and not think here we go again irrespective of who our oponents were.
Barcelona are the best team in Europe but they aren't unassailable, and I think it's understandable to be disappointed when despite on the whole playing well our usual failings conspired against us more than just Barcas quality winning through.

Giroud doesn't have it at the level we require, he's a decent striker but he looked out of his depth totally and it's hard not to understand why fans bang their heads in frustration thinking "we've had so much time to sort this issue, money isn't a problem now".
Any striker we bought for 40-50million would be a gamble, but it's a gamble we can well afford to take
A striker that has the confidence to find the net consistency also brings up the confidence levels of the other attacking players knowing that there is less pressure on them to find the net and they are less likely to snatch at chances.
Also there is the frustration of persisting with players who simply aren't good enough like Flamini.
I don't think there was much issue tactically, In games like last night we tend to operate a more direct style of play and use pace as well as long passing.....we were also happy to play the ball in behind the defence.

[Niall_Quinn]

You can count out a more aggressive approach because Barca bring their own ref. Yes they are a very good team, nowhere near as good as we were at our best btw, but they also have a regular advantage that's just huge. Their style of play is greatly assisted by the fact every time they are put under pressure they hit the deck and their man blows his whistle. That's not an excuse for our inadequacies, but it's a factor in their superiority.

[Globalgunner]

More to the point, Giroud. He came to us as a bang average striker at 25 or so. 4 years later, he is still a bang average striker. Ditto with Walcott, Ramsey, Wilshere and now Ox. The only players to have improved in any measurable quantity are Koscielny and Monreal latterly. So what are we doing. Take for instance a player with no pace like Merts. Do you believe players cannot be made to improve even latent speed. Some clubs hire sprinters like Linford Christie and other pros, to work on the defects in specific areas of players. Do we do this? Or do all our attributes emanate from the great Khali: Monsieur Wenger?

[Power n Glory]

For once I'm not so sure I agree with you on this. I think Giroud has excellent feet and reactions for a big striker. His size means that he is not the most maneuverable in tight situations, but I think its a bit harsh to blame the player for this. I do feel that he is coached to lay off the ball for others, and to pick up one two's - and I would agree that his decision making last night reflected perhaps being wedded too much to this approach.

Striking wise I feel that our problem is that 90% of the time we deny ourselves any space in which to create proper chances. I've said before that our build up play compresses so many bodies in front of the opposition's goal that snatched chances or otherwise, it is almost impossible to score. We look impatient in the final third, and it hugely frustrates me to see so many of our final passes go astray - its almost as though there is no telepathy between the ball carriers and those whose job it is to make runs...unless its a piece of genius from Ozil, or Cazorla's on the pitch. This team looks unbalanced, and IMHO this is why scoring is being made to look so difficult.

He has good feet for bringing the ball down but you’ll rarely see him take the ball under control in a tight situation and fashion out a shot for himself. With his back to goal, he’s not nimble enough to turn to face goal and pop a shot off. It’s not really a case of blame, I’m just saying this is the sort of striker we have starting up front. We either have to change our philosophy to suit him or change the striker. Not being manoeuvrable in tight situations hurts our attack because we’re often playing against teams that sit deep but he’s also too slow on counter attacks to lose his marker. It’s a double edged sword and when certain players are underperforming or out injured, his weakness is further exposed.

As for our tactical approach and the passing philosophy, I agree that we overplay at times. I think the midfield are the worst culprits but a striker that’s forgotten his natural instinct shouldn’t be playing for us. It’s a predator turned vegan. Unless you’re still learning the role, I don’t get how your natural game can be coached right out of you within a space of 4 seasons. He’s an established player and not one of the youth players. He’s always struggled to create his own space from the first season and that hasn’t really changed. Again, it’s not his fault it’s just the type of striker he is. I’ve often questioned why Wenger has gone for this big target man striker instead of someone with pace and agility. He likes these team player target men types and I think it has a lot to do with sharing the goals around the team.

[selassie]

Yes. Good summary. I really don't feel that angry towards the team or Wenger for last night. What we needed against the best team in the world was a 100% flawless display - but that is an almost impossible feat to achieve in any game. Merts played well - apart from his mistake, but if we are objective how many CB's have games where they don't put a foot wrong - the difference is that they don't have Messi waiting to capitalise. Flamini didn't mean to give away the pen. We all know he's a loose cannon - but he was retained for cover and to a degree its not his fault that he is being used as a 'go to' guy lately.

Up front we are misfiring - but I don't buy simply that all our forward players are off form. Barca missed a few chances of their own, but these are forgotten when you win. What concerns me more is how ponderous we are in the build up; and how lacking in composure we are in front of goal. This looks to me like players trying too hard - and not finding the rhythm and understanding required. This particularly applied to Sanchez last night - whose biggest flaw in my view is trying to take on too much and do too much himself.

Yes - we can rail against Wenger for not bringing in a better striker - but for me that's a debate for elsewhere. Last night's results showed simply the difference between us and a world class team.

Aye, totally agree IBK, I'm not angry about last night because I expected, in fact we put in a better performance than I thought we would. I thought tactically we looked pretty organised until they scored. The manner in which they scored though really exposed our lack of shape at that given time and more or less undid all the good work we had done prior to it.

Offensively is definitely becoming a concern though and I agree in that I think that the players are trying too hard, in fact at times yesterday they even looked nervous and were snatching at chances, I suspect a lot of that has to do with a lack of confidence.

We need to start getting it right offensively otherwise this season could end badly.

[selassie]

Whilst I agree with you about the transfer policy, it doesn't change the glaringly obvious fact that under a better manager we could have won last night quite easily.

Put out that team with Fergie or someone or pep, etc in charge and the result is completely different.

Whatever it is Wengers vision of what the players should be doing and how the game should be played is now, after 12 years, irrelevant and nothing more than a pipe dream.

It's like trying to finish a puzzle with parts from a different jigsaw and waiting for them to fit and make the picture look good, and when it fails, finding bits from another jigsaw and hoping for the same thing.

Never going to happen. Time to move on and try someone / something new.

Yep, Wenger just makes stuff difficult and I think it's unnecessary, but maybe that's for another thread. I'm done with him too, not for last night, even if we win the league Wenger needs to go IMO as I just don't see enough progression in the team, I think he holds us back TBH.

[Power n Glory]

I think it's hard for us to go out at the last sixteen for the sixth season in a row and not think here we go again irrespective of who our oponents were.
Barcelona are the best team in Europe but they aren't unassailable, and I think it's understandable to be disappointed when despite on the whole playing well our usual failings conspired against us more than just Barcas quality winning through.

Giroud doesn't have it at the level we require, he's a decent striker but he looked out of his depth totally and it's hard not to understand why fans bang their heads in frustration thinking "we've had so much time to sort this issue, money isn't a problem now".
Any striker we bought for 40-50million would be a gamble, but it's a gamble we can well afford to take
A striker that has the confidence to find the net consistency also brings up the confidence levels of the other attacking players knowing that there is less pressure on them to find the net and they are less likely to snatch at chances.
Also there is the frustration of persisting with players who simply aren't good enough like Flamini.
I don't think there was much issue tactically, In games like last night we tend to operate a more direct style of play and use pace as well as long passing.....we were also happy to play the ball in behind the defence.

With the striker situation, I don't even think we need to spend £50m -£60m on a player. Giroud should have been dropped 3 or 4 games ago. Just try someone else up front and rotate to keep things fresh. Welbeck, Walcott and Sanchez should be getting games up front. Heck, Campbell was a striker right? I just don't get how we can allow a player to go so along without a goal and persist when we've seen this pattern in seasons before. The player's I mention get dropped for less.

[Niall_Quinn]

Let's not forget the points Wenger chucked away with his antics in the early rounds of the tournament. If you don't want to face Barca in the last 16 then maybe try a bit harder to top your group. But we know this because of all the other seasons he fucked up the same way.

[Özim]

If we'd have won yesterday it would have been lucky, Barca are light years ahead of us in terms of quality, it shouldn't be that way but it is, that's why every year we get knocked out at the last 16 stage, that's our limit.

These lucky wins which end up in courageous failures shouldn't hide the fact that we fail because we're not good enough, just because we beat a decent team when they have an off day it doesn't mean we're top notch, if a top team plays well against us they put us to the sword because in the end we don't have a great team, there's plenty of ways we could improve it, a top notch striker, a better CB, a quality DM, a top notch winger.

Too many CM and not enough players who's natural position isn't CM, up front I'm sorry to say we're average, we have Walcott who scores from time to time but for 10 years has failed to really live up to expectation, Giroud who scores a few goals and then disappears for 2 months, Wellbeck who is like Bambi on ice and will never be a top notch striker as his play is far too erratic and Sanchez who is a quality player but isn't an out and out striker and who's goals have really dried up this season (he's been really poor recently too).

In the end I expected Barcelona to win this tie comfortably, just look at the personnel they have, even when they don't play that well they have players who win them games, other than Sanchez we don't.

Yes Barcelona are superior and should beat us, the more important question is why after 10 years are we so far behind them and why the manager has failed to deliver on the big stage for what 18-19 years in the CL.

We need a better manager and some better players, until we get that we'll always fall short, I accept we aren't coaching players right, but at the same time some of them just aren't good enough, a striker who goes missing for months several times a season just isn't a player we should be relying on to be our number 1 forward.

[Özim]

Let's not forget the points Wenger chucked away with his antics in the early rounds of the tournament. If you don't want to face Barca in the last 16 then maybe try a bit harder to top your group. But we know this because of all the other seasons he fucked up the same way.

I'm sorry to say it but Wenger is a loser who always comes out 2nd best and is happy with that, the amount of times this happens it shouldn't be a surprise, there's no momentum and an inability to deliver when it matters most, every season we get tougher games because we come 2nd in our group and even when we do get lucky and get someone easier (Monaco) we blow it because we're unprepared and unprofessional. A better manager may not win everything with these players, but he'd do a much better job of beating opposition he should beat.

[Letters]

Every team in England is this far behind them. Most are further behind than us.

[Özim]

Thing is we have been that far behind for a decade a lot of the other top teams haven't, this club doesn't strive to be the best, it's strives to be 2nd best and that's why we are where we are and regularly watch the team being dismantled by superior opposition.

We should be much closer to Barcelona than we are, we we're not promised that we built the stadium to challenge the best teams in Europe and yet 10 years down the line we're further away than we were then and couldn'tbe further away to be honest.

Under the current regime we're never going to be a match for Barcelona, it's a gimme that every top team we face will knock us out of the CL.

When Barcelona got stuffed in the CL a few years back, they were embarrassed and weren't willing to accept being 2nd best, look at them now they've made changes and look one of the best again, top clubs don't take a trashing and stand still they put measures in place to make sure it doesn't happen again.

This club isn't even midly embarrassed whenever the team gets thrashed, it's almost nornal for it to happen now.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

As have stated there is no reason we should expect to beat Barcelona, but there is justification in being disappointed when we compete for so long and our usual failings result in our downfall. It's as simple as that.

If we beat United on Sunday it will ameliorate this, but even against a poor United side there is cause for skepticism when in our last eight games, six of which have been at home we have failed to score in five of them.

That's a big problem

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yes. Good summary. I really don't feel that angry towards the team or Wenger for last night. What we needed against the best team in the world was a 100% flawless display - but that is an almost impossible feat to achieve in any game. Merts played well - apart from his mistake, but if we are objective how many CB's have games where they don't put a foot wrong - the difference is that they don't have Messi waiting to capitalise. Flamini didn't mean to give away the pen. We all know he's a loose cannon - but he was retained for cover and to a degree its not his fault that he is being used as a 'go to' guy lately.

Up front we are misfiring - but I don't buy simply that all our forward players are off form. Barca missed a few chances of their own, but these are forgotten when you win. What concerns me more is how ponderous we are in the build up; and how lacking in composure we are in front of goal. This looks to me like players trying too hard - and not finding the rhythm and understanding required. This particularly applied to Sanchez last night - whose biggest flaw in my view is trying to take on too much and do too much himself.

Yes - we can rail against Wenger for not bringing in a better striker - but for me that's a debate for elsewhere. Last night's results showed simply the difference between us and a world class team.

Which leaves me asking the question, 'what happened to the world class stadium for a world class team'?

The only thing that stadium has delivered is world class profiteering.

[Power n Glory]

Let's hope Wenger's job is on the line this season. He's been saying he'd have been sacked if he didn't win the FA Cup. We can only hope he's not talking BS and they're looking at the league closely this year. If he messes it up he has to go.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Let's hope Wenger's job is on the line this season. He's been saying he'd have been sacked if he didn't win the FA Cup. We can only hope he's not talking BS and they're looking at the league closely this year. If he messes it up he has to go.

You want the title.

They want....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25_jgiY51I

Guess who's guaranteed to get what they want?

[selassie]

Let's hope Wenger's job is on the line this season. He's been saying he'd have been sacked if he didn't win the FA Cup. We can only hope he's not talking BS and they're looking at the league closely this year. If he messes it up he has to go.

TBH, I think if we don't win the league this season then his position would become untenable, the backlash from a large majority of the fan base would be too much.

I dread to even think of the consequences if we were pipped to the title by those boys down the road...Wenger would be a "dead man" walking and no amount of spin would wash.

[Munchies]

Alves as to why he swore Özil off.

"He told me to remember what happened in the 2014 World Cup semi-final before speaking"

:lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

TBH, I think if we don't win the league this season then his position would become untenable, the backlash from a large majority of the fan base would be too much.

I dread to even think of the consequences if we were pipped to the title by those boys down the road...Wenger would be a "dead man" walking and no amount of spin would wash.

They'd make a big signing and the fans would be happy with that. Wenger would survive. To save his arse, suddenly there would be quality out there and we'd find it. Or they could try another Suarez stall tactic, pretend they were going to sign somebody huge and leave it to the last day of the window and then blame somebody else for the pretend deal falling through. Lots of ways they could stall and tease out more time for their bagman.

[Niall_Quinn]

Which leaves me asking the question, 'what happened to the world class stadium for a world class team'?

The only thing that stadium has delivered is world class profiteering.

Two out of three is not bad at all. With the profits rolling in seemingly regardless, why invest? What's the point? The stadium is full, the merchandise is selling itself, the big deals are coming in. All that achieved with the team we have. If the profits slip then maybe resort to investment, but until then why would they?

[Marc Overmars]

Let's hope Wenger's job is on the line this season. He's been saying he'd have been sacked if he didn't win the FA Cup. We can only hope he's not talking BS and they're looking at the league closely this year. If he messes it up he has to go.

Even if we cock the league up, which lets face wouldn't be a surprise to anyone, he'll stick around. Though given it could be Leicester or Spurs we lose out to, maybe the fan backlash would be too much.

But unless we drop out of the top 4 he's pretty cushy. If we had football men at the top it would be a different story.

[Niall_Quinn]

Every team in England is this far behind them. Most are further behind than us.

So we are one of the best also-rans? Barca had millions on the pitch, we have it in the bank. That's the difference. The fans did everything asked of them when the promises were being dished out. Coughed up 100% more cash, turned up, subscribed, literally bought the fucking T-shirt. So where are the executives who were dishing out the promises? What have they delivered?

[Power n Glory]

They'd make a big signing and the fans would be happy with that. Wenger would survive. To save his arse, suddenly there would be quality out there and we'd find it. Or they could try another Suarez stall tactic, pretend they were going to sign somebody huge and leave it to the last day of the window and then blame somebody else for the pretend deal falling through. Lots of ways they could stall and tease out more time for their bagman.

I don't think anyone will fall for it this summer. The Ozil and Sanchez discontent stories will rumble on this summer if we fail.

[Letters]

So we are one of the best also-rans? Barca had millions on the pitch, we have it in the bank. That's the difference. The fans did everything asked of them when the promises were being dished out. Coughed up 100% more cash, turned up, subscribed, literally bought the fucking T-shirt. So where are the executives who were dishing out the promises? What have they delivered?

It is part of the difference but sides like City have been spunking millions on the pitch and they're nowhere near the level of Barca either.
I'm not going to get worked up we lost to Barca - they're on a different planet from almost everyone.
Let's start competing domestically first, 2 years ago we started buying players which should enable us to do so, it's yielded some results. The title's there for the taking now, let's see how we get on there. Fail there and you and I will be on (more or less) the same page.

[Kano]

TBH, I think if we don't win the league this season then his position would become untenable, the backlash from a large majority of the fan base would be too much.

I dread to even think of the consequences if we were pipped to the title by those boys down the road...Wenger would be a "dead man" walking and no amount of spin would wash.

I think it's all very much wishful thinking. The internet v stadium crowd are two completely different animals in terms of how they react to the teams performances and thus the managers future.

Without a doubt he will be here next season if he decides to see out his contract.

[Marc Overmars]

I think it's all very much wishful thinking. The internet v stadium crowd are two completely different animals in terms of how they react to the teams performances and thus the managers future.



Generally I think that's right but judging by the last handful of games I've been to, the match going crowd and internet fans aren't really that far out of sync, all the moaning and bitching I hear in stadium is stuff you can read online. Fans are expectant now and in fairness we've been very patient and had to put up with a lot of repeated mistakes and failed promises.

Hell, looking at Arsenal Fan TV these days the stadium crowd/online fan have merged into 1 anyway.

[Kano]

Generally I think that's right but judging by the last handful of games I've been to, the match going crowd and internet fans aren't really that far out of sync, all the moaning and bitching I hear in stadium is stuff you can read online. Fans are expectant now and in fairness we've been very patient and had to put up with a lot of repeated mistakes and failed promises.

Hell, looking at Arsenal Fan TV these days the stadium crowd/online fan have merged into 1 anyway.

Galvanising that into a larger movement is something entirely different. People moan all the time at matches, no matter what the status but I can't see the crowd making a concerted effort to push for Wenger to leave. And quite honestly, even if they did, I don't think the board would listen. They've made it pretty clear how far they are willing to go with the paying punter.

[Power n Glory]

Galvanising that into a larger movement is something entirely different. People moan all the time at matches, no matter what the status but I can't see the crowd making a concerted effort to push for Wenger to leave. And quite honestly, even if they did, I don't think the board would listen. They've made it pretty clear how far they are willing to go with the paying punter.

If Wenger isn't talking nonsense about his job being under threat a couple of seasons back, we really don't know what is going on behind the scenes.

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYOKj1pOM2s&feature=youtu.be

old vid but relevant

Thanks for the memories but it's time to say goodbye :wave:

[Niall_Quinn]

It is part of the difference but sides like City have been spunking millions on the pitch and they're nowhere near the level of Barca either.
I'm not going to get worked up we lost to Barca - they're on a different planet from almost everyone.
Let's start competing domestically first, 2 years ago we started buying players which should enable us to do so, it's yielded some results. The title's there for the taking now, let's see how we get on there. Fail there and you and I will be on (more or less) the same page.

Nor am I getting worked up over one game, I'm pissed at the net result of 10 years wasted that was supposed to see us at least progress from where we were at Highbury. On the pitch I mean. But we've slowly slipped backwards, year on year and now we have a team that can't string a pass or get a shot within a mile of the goal. And it;s not just the bad patch this season. Our football has been regressing for years. I'm lamenting the fact that we could actually be challenging that Barca team if the manager had got his act together (after all this time). But he didn't and he won't. 3 more signings over the last 3 years and we'd be set. That's not too much to ask from a collection of individuals who have skinned the fan base to the bone. The last summer transfer window was the end. It showed the real intent of the club. And it's not just Wenger. We'll have to see out this board as well before anything happens at this club.

[Niall_Quinn]

If Wenger isn't talking nonsense about his job being under threat a couple of seasons back, we really don't know what is going on behind the scenes.

Nonsense I'd say. We know he lies all the time.

[Power n Glory]

Nonsense I'd say. We know he lies all the time.

He could be but when has he ever spoken like that and not been so bullish about his job security or being proud of his record? Also the timing seems odd because he's said this when his job isn't really under much scrutiny. I could understand if he said something like this when Mourinho was poking away and saying he is under no pressure but this just comes out of the blue.

[Globalgunner]

The whole scenario is a big con. Its pretty easy for any person to see. The owner of the club does not give a toss about results on the pitch. The board is that in name only. Not 1 person apart from Kroenke himself can say a word to Wenger. Wenger literally owns the club. It is his to do with as he pleases. Falling into the hands of the American is the worst thing that could happen to us given who the manager is. In another world with a self driven relentless title chasing individual at the helm it would be perfect. But Wenger only pretends to compete, once he sees things are tough he reaches into his box of excuses. If anybody needs to leave it is Kroenke. How do we do that?. A stadium boycott by legions of long term fans is the only solution and that can only happen if Spurs win the league. Maybe, maybe then, we will see enough people so disgusted that they stop going. Even if you are a season ticket holder, stop going. With acres of gaps in the crowd, the sponsors will be the first to start asking the awkward questions.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Whether we like it or not, there is only one shareholder who is actually interested in us being a successful club again by buying quality and injecting the funds needed to do so and that is Usmanov.

I doubt he would be taking a £3m payment from the club each year for doing fuck all either!

Kronke is a complete and utter fraudster. People have said they don't want the Russian oligarch gangster types running things but the truth is we have it even worse with the US/English old boy gangsters instead who are only interested in sponging and siphoning as much cash from us as possible.

[GP]

I don't want either of them

[KSE Comedy Club]

What other choice do we have?

Arabs?

We as a club just don't operate in any other world anymore - it's a billionaire owner or nothing.

[Globalgunner]

I don't want either of them

You dont really have much choice and you already have 1 of them anyways, but only 1 of them is actually interested in the thing that you and I are interested in. Winning......
Sheesh! All of a sudden I feel like someone campaigning for that muppet Donald Trump........
With the other guy you are gonna win so much you will get tired of winning.

[Kano]

Usmanov is a fan of Wenger too, so it looks like a win for everyone.

[Power n Glory]

Kronke is a problem and I don't like the fact that he's picking up £3m a year for nothing but he's not the main problem. The ownership talk is a distraction. The real issue here is Wenger. It's not Silent Stan, Gazidis, oil baron clubs... the focus has to be firmly on him. I've always believed Wenger has been in cahoots with the Board way before Stan and Ivan arrived. For years he's been able to keep the focus off his own shortcomings as a manager and have everyone focused on the money. Fans were blaming the old board for years and then it shifted on to Ivan and Stan because Wenger kept talking about the financial state of other clubs and talking about not 'bankrupting' Arsenal. Forever talking in code and riddles about our financial state, creating this air of mystery that had us all guessing about what was going on.

We'd sell star players and buy basic beans. PHW and Ivan would continuously say the money was there for him to spend but he'd never strengthen the squad in the way we needed. It would always send the fans up in arms but the Board would be in question instead of Wenger. I've always maintained the money was there but Wenger was being cheap and the last few seasons have proven that. Not crazy money but enough to replace star talent for star talent. We didn't gave to downgrade. When Ivan announced the new sponsorship deals and clearly spelled out the sort of player we could afford along with the wages, the excuses from Wenger had to stop and the spotlight went firmly on him. That's why he's losing fan support so quickly. He's always hid behind the money excuse. You can go back to the Highbury days to here that when he talks of our small stadium capacity and other teams having better sponsorship deals. It's been a convenient crutch. He can't depend on that anymore since the funds are now being delivered. Now it's his turn to deliver because we're sitting comfy cosy financially.

Whoever owns the club will probably be a dirt bag. That can't be helped. They'll want the club to be profitable and stable and that's understandable from a business sense. I don't think we'll find an owner that just loves the club and wants to plough and endless stream of money in to make us successful. If that were to happen we'd have to question whether that's buying success but that's another debate. Right now the main issue is Arsene Wenger. I really don't get how he can be comfortable with his record. Why he isn't pushing the boat out for more. Why he never leaned on the Board for more money or bringing in certain players that would strengthen us. That's all on him.

Forget the owners. If you rent a property that's a complete and utter shithole, whose fault is it? Why are you happy living in a shithole and not taking proper care of the place? Even if you have a complete and utter shite of a landlord that's cheap and reluctant to spend on the place you make a nuisance of yourself and demand they fulfill their obligation and duty. You leave if the situation is that bad. Wouldn't you be embarrassed to show your friends and relatives how you're living? That's how I feel about Wenger and this club. The whole Board/Manager debate. Where Wenger's pride? His record in Europe is woeful and going so long without silverware must have stung the ego but he kept making excuses for himself and doing very little to address our problems. We now have the money but we're hearing the same excuses we heard 10 years ago about players not being available and so and so being good enough when they are clearly not. It's incredible. He has to be the first one to go.

[Niall_Quinn]

There's also this guy who is apparently, if you believe the journos, very serious. As far as I'm aware there are no reports of him murdering, pillaging or raping anyone so whether he'd get past the football authorities is another matter.


Africa's richest businessman says he is planning a bid to buy Arsenal.

Nigerian billionaire Aliko Dangote believes the building of an oil refinery in his homeland will give him the finance to secure a takeover.

The 58-year-old, who has an estimated wealth of £11.5bn, says he has supported the Gunners since the 1980s.

"When we get this refinery on track, I will have enough time and enough resources to pay what they are asking for," he told BBC Hausa.

American Stan Kroenke is Arsenal's majority shareholder, owning 67.02% of the club's parent company Arsenal Holdings plc.

Russian-Uzbek Alisher Usmanov owns 30.04% with the remainder of the 62,217 shares held by minority shareholders including former players and the Arsenal Supporters' Trust, who own three.

Dangote is ranked 67th on the Forbes rich list.

He had previously been interested in purchasing the 15.9% stake sold to Kroenke for £123m by Lady Nina Bracewell-Smith in April 2011 only to pull out.

"There were a couple of us who were rushing to buy, and we thought with the prices then, the people who were interested in selling were trying to go for a kill," Dangote added.

"We backtracked, because we were very busy doing other things, especially our industrialisation."

Dangote believes Arsenal require a different ownership in order to be more successful on the pitch.

He added: "They are doing well, but they need another strategic direction. They need more direction than the current situation, where they just develop players and sell them."

[Xhaka Can’t]

It is part of the difference but sides like City have been spunking millions on the pitch and they're nowhere near the level of Barca either.
I'm not going to get worked up we lost to Barca - they're on a different planet from almost everyone.
Let's start competing domestically first, 2 years ago we started buying players which should enable us to do so, it's yielded some results. The title's there for the taking now, let's see how we get on there. Fail there and you and I will be on (more or less) the same page.

You aren't even on the same chapter - I doubt you're even reading the same book.

[Power n Glory]

You aren't even on the same chapter - I doubt you're even reading the same book.

Would winning the title this season vindicate Wenger?

[Globalgunner]

Would winning the title this season vindicate Wenger?

It would be fine. If he stepped down immediately afterwards.
The game has moved on. Next season. United, City Chelsea, Pool, Spurs will all have new young managers. We will still be stuck with Wenger, Clueless and ambitionless, top 4 is a trophy Wenger. Ranieri at Leicester will be the exception but who can deny he deserves a 2nd season.

[Niall_Quinn]

Would winning the title this season vindicate Wenger?

Ideal scenario if handled properly. Wenger bows out on a high, the story goes into the history book as Arsenal legend riding out the doper storm in football, conquering the financial crash, elevating the club to a new level in a new stadium, and coming through to triumph. Even though that would be less than half the story, but I'm sure we could all live with it. But he'd have to go and go completely. Move him upstairs so he could continue to scupper the transfers windows and drive from the back seat and all bets would be off.

On the other hand, if we don't win it he'd better pray the gypos come through for him again because there would be no explaining away a Leicester or spud title win. He'd be totally exposed and shot to hell if that happens.

[Niall_Quinn]

You aren't even on the same chapter - I doubt you're even reading the same book.

As the old proverb goes, never judge a book until the end of the season.

[Niall_Quinn]

Kronke is a problem and I don't like the fact that he's picking up £3m a year for nothing but he's not the main problem. The ownership talk is a distraction. The real issue here is Wenger. It's not Silent Stan, Gazidis, oil baron clubs... the focus has to be firmly on him. I've always believed Wenger has been in cahoots with the Board way before Stan and Ivan arrived. For years he's been able to keep the focus off his own shortcomings as a manager and have everyone focused on the money. Fans were blaming the old board for years and then it shifted on to Ivan and Stan because Wenger kept talking about the financial state of other clubs and talking about not 'bankrupting' Arsenal. Forever talking in code and riddles about our financial state, creating this air of mystery that had us all guessing about what was going on.

We'd sell star players and buy basic beans. PHW and Ivan would continuously say the money was there for him to spend but he'd never strengthen the squad in the way we needed. It would always send the fans up in arms but the Board would be in question instead of Wenger. I've always maintained the money was there but Wenger was being cheap and the last few seasons have proven that. Not crazy money but enough to replace star talent for star talent. We didn't gave to downgrade. When Ivan announced the new sponsorship deals and clearly spelled out the sort of player we could afford along with the wages, the excuses from Wenger had to stop and the spotlight went firmly on him. That's why he's losing fan support so quickly. He's always hid behind the money excuse. You can go back to the Highbury days to here that when he talks of our small stadium capacity and other teams having better sponsorship deals. It's been a convenient crutch. He can't depend on that anymore since the funds are now being delivered. Now it's his turn to deliver because we're sitting comfy cosy financially.

Whoever owns the club will probably be a dirt bag. That can't be helped. They'll want the club to be profitable and stable and that's understandable from a business sense. I don't think we'll find an owner that just loves the club and wants to plough and endless stream of money in to make us successful. If that were to happen we'd have to question whether that's buying success but that's another debate. Right now the main issue is Arsene Wenger. I really don't get how he can be comfortable with his record. Why he isn't pushing the boat out for more. Why he never leaned on the Board for more money or bringing in certain players that would strengthen us. That's all on him.

Forget the owners. If you rent a property that's a complete and utter shithole, whose fault is it? Why are you happy living in a shithole and not taking proper care of the place? Even if you have a complete and utter shite of a landlord that's cheap and reluctant to spend on the place you make a nuisance of yourself and demand they fulfill their obligation and duty. You leave if the situation is that bad. Wouldn't you be embarrassed to show your friends and relatives how you're living? That's how I feel about Wenger and this club. The whole Board/Manager debate. Where Wenger's pride? His record in Europe is woeful and going so long without silverware must have stung the ego but he kept making excuses for himself and doing very little to address our problems. We now have the money but we're hearing the same excuses we heard 10 years ago about players not being available and so and so being good enough when they are clearly not. It's incredible. He has to be the first one to go.

:gp:

Except it all depends on what angle you look at Wenger's record from. As a fan you shake your head and imagine what might have been with a bit more ambition. As one of the leeches who slithered off with half a billion between them or the incoming vampire you can only grin in admiration. This guy is gooooooooood! He's in a class of his own for delivering what really matters - cash.

[Power n Glory]

Ideal scenario if handled properly. Wenger bows out on a high, the story goes into the history book as Arsenal legend riding out the doper storm in football, conquering the financial crash, elevating the club to a new level in a new stadium, and coming through to triumph. Even though that would be less than half the story, but I'm sure we could all live with it. But he'd have to go and go completely. Move him upstairs so he could continue to scupper the transfers windows and drive from the back seat and all bets would be off.

On the other hand, if we don't win it he'd better pray the gypos come through for him again because there would be no explaining away a Leicester or spud title win. He'd be totally exposed and shot to hell if that happens.

We're on the same page with that.

[selassie]

I think it's all very much wishful thinking. The internet v stadium crowd are two completely different animals in terms of how they react to the teams performances and thus the managers future.

Without a doubt he will be here next season if he decides to see out his contract.

Really? You think the fan base would be satisfied with the season if we lose the title to Leicester or dare I say it the Spuds? Come on, he'd have no excuses, the faith in him would be at an all time low, if he can't win it against that lot he'll never win it.

Sure the owners are and will continue to back him because he makes them a tidy profit but I really don't think the fan base would happily sit back and lap up his excuses if the above happened.

[selassie]

Kronke is a problem and I don't like the fact that he's picking up £3m a year for nothing but he's not the main problem. The ownership talk is a distraction. The real issue here is Wenger. It's not Silent Stan, Gazidis, oil baron clubs... the focus has to be firmly on him. I've always believed Wenger has been in cahoots with the Board way before Stan and Ivan arrived. For years he's been able to keep the focus off his own shortcomings as a manager and have everyone focused on the money. Fans were blaming the old board for years and then it shifted on to Ivan and Stan because Wenger kept talking about the financial state of other clubs and talking about not 'bankrupting' Arsenal. Forever talking in code and riddles about our financial state, creating this air of mystery that had us all guessing about what was going on.

We'd sell star players and buy basic beans. PHW and Ivan would continuously say the money was there for him to spend but he'd never strengthen the squad in the way we needed. It would always send the fans up in arms but the Board would be in question instead of Wenger. I've always maintained the money was there but Wenger was being cheap and the last few seasons have proven that. Not crazy money but enough to replace star talent for star talent. We didn't gave to downgrade. When Ivan announced the new sponsorship deals and clearly spelled out the sort of player we could afford along with the wages, the excuses from Wenger had to stop and the spotlight went firmly on him. That's why he's losing fan support so quickly. He's always hid behind the money excuse. You can go back to the Highbury days to here that when he talks of our small stadium capacity and other teams having better sponsorship deals. It's been a convenient crutch. He can't depend on that anymore since the funds are now being delivered. Now it's his turn to deliver because we're sitting comfy cosy financially.

Whoever owns the club will probably be a dirt bag. That can't be helped. They'll want the club to be profitable and stable and that's understandable from a business sense. I don't think we'll find an owner that just loves the club and wants to plough and endless stream of money in to make us successful. If that were to happen we'd have to question whether that's buying success but that's another debate. Right now the main issue is Arsene Wenger. I really don't get how he can be comfortable with his record. Why he isn't pushing the boat out for more. Why he never leaned on the Board for more money or bringing in certain players that would strengthen us. That's all on him.

Forget the owners. If you rent a property that's a complete and utter shithole, whose fault is it? Why are you happy living in a shithole and not taking proper care of the place? Even if you have a complete and utter shite of a landlord that's cheap and reluctant to spend on the place you make a nuisance of yourself and demand they fulfill their obligation and duty. You leave if the situation is that bad. Wouldn't you be embarrassed to show your friends and relatives how you're living? That's how I feel about Wenger and this club. The whole Board/Manager debate. Where Wenger's pride? His record in Europe is woeful and going so long without silverware must have stung the ego but he kept making excuses for himself and doing very little to address our problems. We now have the money but we're hearing the same excuses we heard 10 years ago about players not being available and so and so being good enough when they are clearly not. It's incredible. He has to be the first one to go.

:gp: :gp: :gp:

100% with you on this PnG, excellent post.

[Kano]

Really? You think the fan base would be satisfied with the season if we lose the title to Leicester or dare I say it the Spuds? Come on, he'd have no excuses, the faith in him would be at an all time low, if he can't win it against that lot he'll never win it.

Sure the owners are and will continue to back him because he makes them a tidy profit but I really don't think the fan base would happily sit back and lap up his excuses if the above happened.
That's not what I said. What I'm pointing out is that there is a big difference between being unsatisfied and galvanising that into a group action, all focused on one outcome. I don't see that happening in the stadium, enmasse, at all. Especially on a regular basis. It's wishful thinking to believe otherwise. Either Wenger will decide to hang up his hat or he'll continue as is.

[selassie]

It is part of the difference but sides like City have been spunking millions on the pitch and they're nowhere near the level of Barca either.
I'm not going to get worked up we lost to Barca - they're on a different planet from almost everyone.
Let's start competing domestically first, 2 years ago we started buying players which should enable us to do so, it's yielded some results. The title's there for the taking now, let's see how we get on there. Fail there and you and I will be on (more or less) the same page.

Or we could go back a step further and look into why we got into this mess in CL in the first place? We finished second in the group because Wenger gambled with his team selection in the first few group stage games, he messed around with the team selection by playing Ospina and replacing half of the first choice players . It was arrogance and mismanagement of the highest order, we're not even one of the strongest teams in CL, so why he felt we were good enough to make wholesale changes is beyond me. Barca or Bayern don't do it, so why are we even entertaining the idea?!

The problem isn't that we lost to Barca and this really has nothing to do with Man City or any of the dopers, the issue is Wenger here and his continued mismanagement of the team.

[Kano]

Or we could go back a step further and look into why we got into this mess in CL in the first place? We finished second in the group because Wenger gambled with his team selection in the first few group stage games, he messed around with the team selection by playing Ospina and replacing half of the first choice players . It was arrogance and mismanagement of the highest order, we're not even one of the strongest teams in CL, so why he felt we were good enough to make wholesale changes is beyond me. Barca or Bayern don't do it, so why are we even entertaining the idea?!

The problem isn't that we lost to Barca and this really has nothing to do with Man City or any of the dopers, the issue is Wenger here and his continued mismanagement of the team.
Wenger messed up with his selections early in the group stage. But let’s face it, once we were drawn with Bayern in the same group, the likelihood of us finishing top was very slim. Which isn’t to say we shouldn’t have tried our best to do so but in reality, we finished where expected, although not in the manner anticipated.

[selassie]

That's not what I said. What I'm pointing out is that there is a big difference between being unsatisfied and galvanising that into a group action, all focused on one outcome. I don't see that happening in the stadium, enmasse, at all. Especially on a regular basis. It's wishful thinking to believe otherwise. Either Wenger will decide to hang up his hat or he'll continue as is.

Fair enough, I wasn't suggesting their was going to be some sort of mass protest or group action, merely that IMO Arsenal fans all over would have little to no faith left in Wenger, regardless of this seasons outcome I will continue to support the team but It doesn't mean I or the fan group in general will believe in Wenger, he's been losing support for a while now and I think if we fail to win PL and one of the lesser sides come wins it then his support would be at an all time low.

[selassie]

Wenger messed up with his selections early in the group stage. But let’s face it, once we were drawn with Bayern in the same group, the likelihood of us finishing top was very slim. Which isn’t to say we shouldn’t have tried our best to do so but in reality, we finished where expected in our group.

It was slim but Wenger made it impossible for us to finish above them by throwing away the first two games. What he did was unacceptable and unnecessary. It just adds to a catalogue of bizarre decisions he makes these days.

[Kano]

Fair enough, I wasn't suggesting their was going to be some sort of mass protest or group action, merely that IMO Arsenal fans all over would have little to no faith left in Wenger, regardless of this seasons outcome I will continue to support the team but It doesn't mean I or the fan group in general will believe in Wenger, he's been losing support for a while now and I think if we fail to win PL and one of the lesser sides come wins it then his support would be at an all time low.

I definitely agree with that but I think a lot of fans have to brace themselves with the idea that Wenger will be around for a while yet. Perhaps even longer than just next season, especially with both owners right behind him.

[selassie]

I definitely agree with that but I think a lot of fans have to brace themselves with the idea that Wenger will be around for a while yet. Perhaps even longer than just next season, especially with both owners right behind him.

Oh for sure, like you stated he's here until he decides to call it a day but I don't think things will be rosey if the unthinkable happens this season. We know what Wenger is like when he gets questioned and I don't think it will be pretty.

[Letters]

I've always maintained the money was there but Wenger was being cheap and the last few seasons have proven that.
Hang on...

In the last 3 years we've had a net spend of about £110m, signing players like Cech, Sanchez and Ozil.
The 3 seasons prior to that our net spent was £-9m, we actually made a profit in the transder market and didn't sign any real top players like the ones I've mentioned.

You can argue it's not enough, and I'd probably agree, but there has been a clear change in our spending since the new deals were put in place.

Source:
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-arsenal/alletransfers/verein/11

[Power n Glory]

Hang on...

In the last 3 years we've had a net spend of about £110m, signing players like Cech, Sanchez and Ozil.
The 3 seasons prior to that our net spent was £-9m, we actually made a profit in the transder market and didn't sign any real top players like the ones I've mentioned.

You can argue it's not enough, and I'd probably agree, but there has been a clear change in our spending since the new deals were put in place.

Source:
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-arsenal/alletransfers/verein/11

Yes, it's not enough. We needed a striker this season. I think the points raised fly over your head so there really is no point in going down this avenue. It's repeated time and time again but you're baffled every step of the way.

[Letters]

Yes. We made a profit of £9m in the transfer market in the 3 seasons before the new financial deals were in place.
We spent £110m in the transfer market in the 3 seasons since.
But yes, the money was always there and this proves it. You were right all along. Clever you. Silly only me just doesn't understand your clever argument.


:lol:

[Power n Glory]

Yes. We made a profit of £9m in the transfer market in the 3 seasons before the new financial deals were in place.
We spent £110m in the transfer market in the 3 seasons since.
But yes, the money was always there and this proves it. You were right all along. Clever you. Silly only me just doesn't understand your clever argument.


:lol:

I think you’re mentally stunted and it would explain why you can’t get your head around something so simple. If you sell your best players, your top goal scorer, spend the whole fee on someone of similar quality. Don’t go cheap and spend £25m to £30m on three useless players. It dilutes the quality. I’ve explained this to you before but there isn’t any point in going over it again.

[Power n Glory]

I definitely agree with that but I think a lot of fans have to brace themselves with the idea that Wenger will be around for a while yet. Perhaps even longer than just next season, especially with both owners right behind him.

I think most people are but it won't stop people from being vocal about it. Stadium or Internet.

If he was serious about stepping down after an FA Cup defeat, I wonder if he's going through the same thought process if he doesn't win the league this year.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think most people are but it won't stop people from being vocal about it. Stadium or Internet.

If he was serious about stepping down after an FA Cup defeat, I wonder if he's going through the same thought process if he doesn't win the league this year.

He was never serious about stepping down. Did you see what else he said? The bit about it being better not to get to the Cup Final if you were risking your job by losing. Tongue in cheek? I'm not so sure when it comes to Wenger.

[selassie]

Hang on...

In the last 3 years we've had a net spend of about £110m, signing players like Cech, Sanchez and Ozil.
The 3 seasons prior to that our net spent was £-9m, we actually made a profit in the transder market and didn't sign any real top players like the ones I've mentioned.

You can argue it's not enough, and I'd probably agree, but there has been a clear change in our spending since the new deals were put in place.

Source:
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-arsenal/alletransfers/verein/11

Yeah and he still leaves gaping holes in the squad even though we are rolling in cash!

[Power n Glory]

He was never serious about stepping down. Did you see what else he said? The bit about it being better not to get to the Cup Final if you were risking your job by losing. Tongue in cheek? I'm not so sure when it comes to Wenger.

That was weird and the sort of mentality that worries me. Explains the Top 4 finish and the advantage of always being the underdog. Job security. Probably a tongue in cheek comment but he maybe knows the consequence of flying too close to the sun.

[Letters]

I wish I was clever like you. :(
Then I'd understand how the clear change in spending when the new financial deals started shows you were right all along about the money always being there.

[Letters]

Yeah and he still leaves gaping holes in the squad even though we are rolling in cash!

Well, agreed, and I've said about our spending hasn't been enough. But there has been a clear difference since the new financial deals, that was my point.
I posted the evidence above.

[selassie]

Well, agreed, and I've said about our spending hasn't been enough. But there has been a clear difference since the new financial deals, that was my point.
I posted the evidence above.

Point taken. For me, it's not about Wenger matching the spending of the dopers, it's about him addressing the obvious weaknesses in the team/squad and addressing them. If addressing them means spending no money and promoting from within I'm cool with that if they fix the issues. What I'm not cool with is Wenger just leaving these issues unresolved and then stating that their are no solutions out there. If Wenger can't find better midfielders out there than Flamini then he or the scouts need sacking. It's indefensible and quite frankly I don't understand how he can even justify his position on the matter.

[Power n Glory]

I wish I was clever like you. :(
Then I'd understand how the clear change in spending when the new financial deals started shows you were right all along about the money always being there.

Tally up how much we received from Song and RVP. How much does that come to?

[Niall_Quinn]

I wish I was clever like you. :(
Then I'd understand how the clear change in spending when the new financial deals started shows you were right all along about the money always being there.

It's not about being clever, is it? It's about orthodoxy. Orthodoxy annoys people, nobody likes having facts or ideas or possibilities dismissed out of hand by blind faith. There's also the misapplication of logic and reason. We spent £110mill, therefore the idea Wenger is a cheapskate or holds the club back with his antiquated ideas of value for money cannot be permitted. One piece if evidence automatically disqualifies all others and a conclusive and "correct" conclusion can be established beyond all doubt. Indeed, there is no reason to consider or even listed to counter arguments because they are invalid by default. That sort of thinking is not clever or stupid, it's close minded. Wenger won the FA Cup, therefore he should remain manager. Fact. Truth! Wenger cannot be judged on his performance until some arbitrary time in the future. Truth! If you don't vote you have no rights. Gospel! Orthodoxy is big on tradition but paradoxically hates any close inspection of non-approved history. So we must not consider Wenger's performance over a protracted period, like the last decade, because only the here and now is relevant. Fact! And yet, because he has been at the club for so long it would be dangerous to bring in a new manager. Truth! And so it goes. It irritates people, frustrates them, the lose their calm. Of course that's just a bonus because then the disciple of orthodoxy can claim the high ground because he's so reasonable compared to that guy over there jumping up and down. Patience is a virtue that can be overcome by persistence.

[Power n Glory]

Tally up how much we received from Song and RVP. How much does that come to?

In fact, combine the fee of Giroud, Podolski, Santi and Monreal, just so there is no debate about what money was made available.

[Özim]

He was never serious about stepping down. Did you see what else he said? The bit about it being better not to get to the Cup Final if you were risking your job by losing. Tongue in cheek? I'm not so sure when it comes to Wenger.

You have to take a lot of the stuff he says with a pinch of salt, I just don't think he's very honest most of the time.

[Özim]

Hang on...

In the last 3 years we've had a net spend of about £110m, signing players like Cech, Sanchez and Ozil.
The 3 seasons prior to that our net spent was £-9m, we actually made a profit in the transder market and didn't sign any real top players like the ones I've mentioned.

You can argue it's not enough, and I'd probably agree, but there has been a clear change in our spending since the new deals were put in place.

Source:
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-arsenal/alletransfers/verein/11

The net spend of -9 million in the last 3 seasons is the problem, how many clubs have such a low net spend, moreover homw many big clubs do, probably none.

His net spend in the last decade is ridiculous to be honest, time and time again he's sold our best players and wasted the money on inadequate replacements rather than biting the bullet and going for proven players, he's a master at passing up opportunities to sign quality players.

[Letters]

The net spend of -9 million in the last 3 seasons is the problem, how many clubs have such a low net spend, moreover homw many big clubs do, probably none.

His net spend in the last decade is ridiculous to be honest, time and time again he's sold our best players and wasted the money on inadequate replacements rather than biting the bullet and going for proven players, he's a master at passing up opportunities to sign quality players.

It was -9m in the 3 years BEFORE the new financial deals came in place and £110m in the last 3 seasons since.
There were times when he could and should have spent more in the last decade but it's clear from that that the new financial deals changed our spending power and the spending, and level of player we've been signing, has been different since. And it has immediately yielded trophies if not the biggest prizes yet.
But now the deals are in place we should be competing - we are of course, we could yet win the Double! I don't think we will, but it's bizarre just how low Wenger's stock has fallen when we're currently 2 points off the top and have draws which really should see us progress to the FA Cup Semi-final.
If we finish below Spurs or Leicester then he should be sacked.
There, I said it.

[Power n Glory]

In fact, combine the fee of Giroud, Podolski, Santi and Monreal, just so there is no debate about what money was made available.

Letters - Total up how much the above players cost and stop trying to duck the question.

[GP]

It was -9m in the 3 years BEFORE the new financial deals came in place and £110m in the last 3 seasons since.
There were times when he could and should have spent more in the last decade but it's clear from that that the new financial deals changed our spending power and the spending, and level of player we've been signing, has been different since. And it has immediately yielded trophies if not the biggest prizes yet.
But now the deals are in place we should be competing - we are of course, we could yet win the Double! I don't think we will, but it's bizarre just how low Wenger's stock has fallen when we're currently 2 points off the top and have draws which really should see us progress to the FA Cup Semi-final.
If we finish below Spurs or Leicester then he should be sacked.
There, I said it.

Not winning this league would be indefensible. What would the excuses be?

It really shouldn't be as tight as it is. He should go regardless.

[Letters]

Letters - Total up how much the above players cost and stop trying to duck the question.

What has that got to do with the price of fish (as my mum would say, no idea why)? You're saying money has always been available and that the spending since the new financial deals proves that.
There was a clear difference between our net spend (which is surely the most relevant measure of our financial power) before the new financial deals and after.
I think we can all agree that Wenger has been too cautious in the transfer market but there's no doubt the spending has been different since those deals were in place.

[Power n Glory]

What has that got to do with the price of fish (as my mum would say, no idea why)? You're saying money has always been available and that the spending since the new financial deals proves that.
There was a clear difference between our net spend (which is surely the most relevant measure of our financial power) before the new financial deals and after.
I think we can all agree that Wenger has been too cautious in the transfer market but there's no doubt the spending has been different since those deals were in place.

Money has always been available. I'm not talking about net spend or balancing the books. What I'm saying is you can't say we could never afford a player like Ozil, Sanchez or even Cech for crying out loud (£10m).

Go to that season where we bought Gervinho, Ox, Park, Santos, Campbell and that's another example of spreading the costs instead of doing what we're doing this season and signing on one massive marquee player a season. Yes, we had to sell players because they grew tired of winning nothing but replace them with quality and don't dilute the quality. Doing that has a knock on effect where we're forced to then sell RVP the following season. Rinse and repeat. :doh:

[Niall_Quinn]

Cautious is too kind a word for it. He refuses to accept the current state of the transfer market, he feels it is wrong, unjustified, not good value. But he doesn't drive the market so all he's doing is spiting the club and the fans by not spending the extra that could have brought in key players at key moments and made a big different to our history over the last 10 seasons. He's made critical mistakes and a whole generation of potential has been pissed down the pan as a result. His much quoted CL record is an absolute scandal. Yes we have qualified for 12 billion years consecutively, but that in itself becomes meaningless given how we have performed once we got there. All for lack of that little extra investment which he's clearly had because he could afford to keep Diaby in the treatment room for years on £50k per week. That's almost £3mill a year right there, £250mill if you factor in the cost of treatment. He gave long contracts to knobs like Bendtner, gave pay rises to players who achieved nothing. We haven't bee short of cash, we've just spent it on all the wrong things. The best training facilities, the best pitch, a mega stadium, the best facilities any player could ever want. Money no object. But when it comes to the transfer market he chucks it all away by refusing to put the best players in those facilities. In the one critical area without which nothing else can succeed he leaves us short season after season. Because, in his estimation, everyone bar himself is doing it wrong. Fine if that's what he thinks, but then he;s got to go out and prove he's right. He hasn't done that. He's failed and he'll continue to fail for as long as he refuses to admit he's wrong.

[Letters]

Money has always been available. I'm not talking about net spend or balancing the books. What I'm saying is you can't say we could never afford a player like Ozil, Sanchez or even Cech for crying out loud (£10m).

Go to that season where we bought Gervinho, Ox, Park, Santos, Campbell and that's another example of spreading the costs instead of doing what we're doing this season and signing on one massive marquee player a season. Yes, we had to sell players because they grew tired of winning nothing but replace them with quality and don't dilute the quality. Doing that has a knock on effect where we're forced to then sell RVP the following season. Rinse and repeat. :doh:

Money HAS always been available but the new deals have made a difference too.
That season you're talking about, we lost Fabregas, Nasri, Clichy, Arshavin, Eboue...Bentner :d.
Signing one marquee player would have left us short.
I don't think anyone would argue that Wenger has got things right in the transfer market but if you're arguing that that new financial deals have made no difference and we could have always done what we did in the last couple of years then I don't agree. The key difference in the last few years is we've signed some big players without selling key players, hence the much bigger net spend.

[Globalgunner]

Problem with arguing with Letters is that he keeps on saying erroneous facts and hopes that its repetition will consolidate it as fact. When we moved to the Emirates our net income went up immediately. We started saving money right away irrespective of the stadium payments. We were never in a position where we could not buy quality players, Onkly that we could not do it on the same gargantuan level as City Chelsea and United. We offered 42m +£1 for Suarez before we bought Ozil and before the new TV deals came into effect. Are we saying at that time we could not afford to have offered Pool 50m or even 60? Of couse we could we already had over 150m in the bank at that time. The 200m is increasing year on year. Wenger refuses to spend either because it suits him for CYA (cover your ass) reasons or because the directive from above is to keep the coffer in good balance to enable the club be used as collateral against other Kroenke related deals as we have just seen with his mega ranch purchase.

THe reality is IMO that no one cares about the on field achievements of this club. It is just a vehicle to further wider business interests. Another 10 years of this crapness would suit a lot of rich people just fine. Not to mention their quislings on this forum who are just polar opposite to rationale because it fills a vacuum in their day.

PS we never really SOLD any big players. They left because we could not give them the ambition to stay. A self inflicted curse that may soon be repeated.

[Power n Glory]

Money HAS always been available but the new deals have made a difference too.
That season you're talking about, we lost Fabregas, Nasri, Clichy, Arshavin, Eboue...Bentner :d.
Signing one marquee player would have left us short.
I don't think anyone would argue that Wenger has got things right in the transfer market but if you're arguing that that new financial deals have made no difference and we could have always done what we did in the last couple of years then I don't agree. The key difference in the last few years is we've signed some big players without selling key players, hence the much bigger net spend.

Those fees in your link are off. We sold Fab for a reported £35m. Nasri for £25m. So why not buy two marquee players not one? :doh:

How do you end up with Gervinho, Ox, Arteta, Park, Merts, Jenks and Santos? Zero marquee players after selling two!. Only Merts and Arteta served any purpose for the first team and people on here still debate their quality.

Is this not making any sense to you? Diluting the quality? And yes, we could have done what we're doing now years ago and quite possibly held on to one or two key players. Heck, you're marbles if you think we couldn't do with a better keeper in those days.

[Letters]

Problem with arguing with Letters is that he keeps on saying erroneous facts and hopes that its repetition will consolidate it as fact.
Quite ironic you started a post like that and then went on to spout a load of 'facts' which are pure conjecture.
I backed up my 'facts' with a link where I got them from.
Meh.

[Globalgunner]

Your facts are always facts, others are made up.
See PnGs response above

[Power n Glory]

Problem with arguing with Letters is that he keeps on saying erroneous facts and hopes that its repetition will consolidate it as fact. When we moved to the Emirates our net income went up immediately. We started saving money right away irrespective of the stadium payments. We were never in a position where we could not buy quality players, Onkly that we could not do it on the same gargantuan level as City Chelsea and United. We offered 42m +£1 for Suarez before we bought Ozil and before the new TV deals came into effect. Are we saying at that time we could not afford to have offered Pool 50m or even 60? Of couse we could we already had over 150m in the bank at that time. The 200m is increasing year on year. Wenger refuses to spend either because it suits him for CYA (cover your ass) reasons or because the directive from above is to keep the coffer in good balance to enable the club be used as collateral against other Kroenke related deals as we have just seen with his mega ranch purchase.

THe reality is IMO that no one cares about the on field achievements of this club. It is just a vehicle to further wider business interests. Another 10 years of this crapness would suit a lot of rich people just fine. Not to mention their quislings on this forum who are just polar opposite to rationale because it fills a vacuum in their day.

PS we never really SOLD any big players. They left because we could not give them the ambition to stay. A self inflicted curse that may soon be repeated.


If we didn’t have the new sponsorship deals and Gazidis didn’t say we could afford a player like Rooney along with Rooney’s wages, we’d all probably think the Suarez debacle was just a myth. Similar to the stories about us being linked with Xabi Alonso, Reina, Cahill, Mata….it seems impossible that we’d miss out on quality players because we wouldn’t budge on the fee. We could never be that stubborn. But when you look on last summer and this January’s transfer windows, knowing that we have lots of money to spend but only bought a keeper and some guy that the Swiss league that can’t make it on our bench…how can you not look back on those days with suspicion? Wenger talks of only signing super quality but won’t play Elneny in league! We still haven’t bought a quality striker. Welbeck was another last minute fortunate deadline day buy that might not have happened. Wenger was close to going into that season with Sanogo whilst Giroud was injured. If we knew nothing about our new spending power, all the venom would be aimed at the Board with people assuming Wenger has been getting the short end of the stick. That’s the furthest from the truth.

He’s just stubborn and arrogant. You only have to look at his response to Vieira when he was calling for new star signings. You only have to look at what he’s said about Leicester’s success as if he’s been vindicated for not spending big. The fact that it’s taken Ozil and Sanchez for him to just win the FA Cup should be an embarrassment to him. He couldn’t even win the Carling Cup final against Birmingham City.

[selassie]

Money HAS always been available but the new deals have made a difference too.
That season you're talking about, we lost Fabregas, Nasri, Clichy, Arshavin, Eboue...Bentner :d.
Signing one marquee player would have left us short.
I don't think anyone would argue that Wenger has got things right in the transfer market but if you're arguing that that new financial deals have made no difference and we could have always done what we did in the last couple of years then I don't agree. The key difference in the last few years is we've signed some big players without selling key players, hence the much bigger net spend.

Wenger's recruitment policy is by design, he plays the market the way he wants to based purely on his own principles and he's wrong.

The fact we are left short is on Wenger, it has nothing to do with finances, City doping the market, the chinese market, Stan the man or whatever mumbo jumbo is aired.

I was kind of sitting on the fence with Wenger and his recruitment policy up until the last few seasons, it's all clear now and it's all on him IMO.

He could and should have done more back then when we were allegedly strapped, he could and should be doing more now.

Wenger walked away from deals out of principle because we were a million or two short on the valuation of the player, based purely on his valuation of the player (Schwarzer, Alonso etc), that's totally ridiculous.

[Letters]

The fact we are left short is on Wenger
I agree with that.

it has nothing to do with finances, City doping the market
I don't really agree with that. It has been a factor.

Last few years we've made some great signings without selling any key players, it's already yielded a couple of Cups, right now we're in the title race. Ultimately if we fall short that is on Wenger and he should be sacked. Earlier in the season I was saying we should challenge, right now given the likely alternatives - the mess City are in, the fact that Leicester and Spurs are the other candidates - we really should be winning it. I don't agree he should be sacked even if we do win it though.

[selassie]

I agree with that.

I don't really agree with that. It has been a factor.

Last few years we've made some great signings without selling any key players, it's already yielded a couple of Cups, right now we're in the title race. Ultimately if we fall short that is on Wenger and he should be sacked. Earlier in the season I was saying we should challenge, right now given the likely alternatives - the mess City are in, the fact that Leicester and Spurs are the other candidates - we really should be winning it. I don't agree he should be sacked even if we do win it though.

I agree that the dopers have inflated the market but that doesn't mean we should just sit on our hands and not try and improve our team.

The dopers can only buy so many players, many very good players have moved clubs and are moving clubs well within our transfer budget, citing City as a factor to why we are not pragmatic in the market works perfectly as a distraction for us not to get involved. As PnG said on another thread Wenger is at it again talking about the Chinese market inflating prices, who cares?

Making a few great signings and not selling key players is the bare minimum requirement at a club of our stature, we should be aggressive in the market every single summer trying to sign the very best players available within our budget, isn't that why we moved to the Emirates?

P.S. I don't think Wenger should be sacked if we do win it but I would hope he would resign on a high if we do. I'm done with him TBH.

[Letters]

A 'for example' in the way it's affected us is when we were after SWP.
Chelsea swooped in, doubled the price and stuck him on their bench. 'Cos they could.
I don't think anyone would completely defend Wenger in the transfer market but there has been a chance in policy since the new financial deals were in place. We didn't do enough last summer though and if it costs us then he should be sacked.
If we do win the league then it will have been 3 seasons where we've won the cup then retained it and then won the title. It's bizarre to me how low Wenger's stock has fallen when that is still a fairly plausible outcome. I guess we'll know more after the next week our so. Couple of tough away games coming up the outcome of which will go a long way to deciding how this season pans out.

[selassie]

A 'for example' in the way it's affected us is when we were after SWP.
Chelsea swooped in, doubled the price and stuck him on their bench. 'Cos they could.
I don't think anyone would completely defend Wenger in the transfer market but there has been a chance in policy since the new financial deals were in place. We didn't do enough last summer though and if it costs us then he should be sacked.
If we do win the league then it will have been 3 seasons where we've won the cup then retained it and then won the title. It's bizarre to me how low Wenger's stock has fallen when that is still a fairly plausible outcome. I guess we'll know more after the next week our so. Couple of tough away games coming up the outcome of which will go a long way to deciding how this season pans out.

Come on Letters the SWP thing was years ago. You can't use that as a justification to why Wenger leaves gaping holes in the squad every single season!

He's been mismanaging the squad for a long time now, it's not just this summer.

Wenger's stock has fallen because he's not doing enough in his job, he comes across as someone who just does the bare minimum, we signed no outfield players in the summer?! I mean that was just crazy, we don't have a perfect squad of players who can't be improved, yet Wenger tells us otherwise. Barca, Bayern, Real, they were all improving their squads in the summer, why weren't we?

[Özim]

Come on Letters the SWP thing was years ago. You can't use that as a justification to why Wenger leaves gaping holes in the squad every single season!

He's been mismanaging the squad for a long time now, it's not just this summer.

Wenger's stock has fallen because he's not doing enough in his job, he comes across as someone who just does the bare minimum, we signed no outfield players in the summer?! I mean that was just crazy, we don't have a perfect squad of players who can't be improved, yet Wenger tells us otherwise. Barca, Bayern, Real, they were all improving their squads in the summer, why weren't we?

Spot on, there's just no excuse for his transfer policy, he fails to do the necessary in every transfer window. You just can't trust the man to improve the team in the areas it needs to be improved, he's too concerned about value for money and blocking the development of existing players to ever make the necessary signings, you just can't move forward this way.

[Letters]

It was years ago but it illustrates the way these billionaire-fueled clubs have been operating.
And I don't disagree about mismanagement but over the last 2 years we've won the Cup, if we do push on and win the league this year - and we certainly have a chance to - then he can't be doing that bad a job.
If we don't then it will be because we don't have enough up front which Wenger is completely responsible for so I agree he should be sacked. Is it so unreasonable to wait and see what happens though? We're hardly 10 points off the top.

[Power n Glory]

I agree that the dopers have inflated the market but that doesn't mean we should just sit on our hands and not try and improve our team.

The dopers can only buy so many players, many very good players have moved clubs and are moving clubs well within our transfer budget, citing City as a factor to why we are not pragmatic in the market works perfectly as a distraction for us not to get involved. As PnG said on another thread Wenger is at it again talking about the Chinese market inflating prices, who cares?

Making a few great signings and not selling key players is the bare minimum requirement at a club of our stature, we should be aggressive in the market every single summer trying to sign the very best players available within our budget, isn't that why we moved to the Emirates?

P.S. I don't think Wenger should be sacked if we do win it but I would hope he would resign on a high if we do. I'm done with him TBH.

Exactly. In fact, Wenger can’t keep blaming outside forces for inflating the market. He needs to recognise that it’s not 1997 anymore. He now has a rep for buying cheap and selling high. Everyone knows the Prem is flushed with cash. Everyone knows the club is flushed with cash when we publish the profits and boast about self-sufficiency. Players like Walcott, Ox and Ramsey would have gone for peanuts if moving to another Championship club or one of the smaller Prem clubs. But because it’s us and because Wenger’s involved, they try to milk us. If this were 1997, these guys would go down as the Jermain Pennants of the squad. But since clubs have seen Wenger buy Anelka for £500k and then sell him for £23m, sign Overmars for £7m, Petit for £2.5m and then sell them both for £30m, yet still pick up replacements players like Henry for £10m and Pires for £6m….no way could that carry on. We’ve seen Dortmund and Atletico pick up some cheap gems over the past few years because they’re like what we were 20 years ago.

If you look Wenger’s transfers during the Highbury years, he’d sign a lot of duds and reserve players that were awful but they’d fly under the radar because they were cheap and we had a great first team. That’s not the case anymore and he hasn’t adjusted well. He’s not going to get lucky like that anymore. The risk and stakes are higher and he knows an expensive flop will put him under the radar.

[Power n Glory]

It was years ago but it illustrates the way these billionaire-fueled clubs have been operating.
And I don't disagree about mismanagement but over the last 2 years we've won the Cup, if we do push on and win the league this year - and we certainly have a chance to - then he can't be doing that bad a job.
If we don't then it will be because we don't have enough up front which Wenger is completely responsible for so I agree he should be sacked. Is it so unreasonable to wait and see what happens though? We're hardly 10 points off the top.

So why didn't anyone swoop in for Ozil, Sanchez, Cech? Even in the Suarez case when we wanted him, nobody swooped in to stump our offer and they could have.

[IBK]

I agree that the dopers have inflated the market but that doesn't mean we should just sit on our hands and not try and improve our team.

The dopers can only buy so many players, many very good players have moved clubs and are moving clubs well within our transfer budget, citing City as a factor to why we are not pragmatic in the market works perfectly as a distraction for us not to get involved. As PnG said on another thread Wenger is at it again talking about the Chinese market inflating prices, who cares?

Making a few great signings and not selling key players is the bare minimum requirement at a club of our stature, we should be aggressive in the market every single summer trying to sign the very best players available within our budget, isn't that why we moved to the Emirates?

P.S. I don't think Wenger should be sacked if we do win it but I would hope he would resign on a high if we do. I'm done with him TBH.

2 great posts. What this season has thrown into sharp relief is that its not all about the billions that a club has to spend. At least in the EPL. Sure, over a period, you can expect the big spenders to be there or thereabouts, but as we have seen, pure cashbook managing can fail too.


In any event, with Leicester; Watford; Stoke; Southampton; West Ham; Sp*rs etc we have seen that it is possible to buy quality players without spending 10's of millions.


As you say, a club with our resources; stature; location and history should be in a prime position to strengthen our sqaud season on season. In particular (and this is what frustrates me most), the stability we have enjoyed, and Wenger's longevity should mean that we have a settled, balanced team, with the manager being able to plan and cover properly for injuries/lean spells without too much disruption.


Instead, we seem to have anything but a settled, balanced team. I know that injuries have played their part, but in truth, this state of affairs is a permanent situation under Wenger - and I consider it to be negligent that we have been left short in absolutely key areas. If you look at the 'traditional' top 6 teams in this country our strike force quality; and back-up central MF is simply not what you would expect from a team of our stature.


I am really tiring of seemingly being part of Wenger's endless experiment. I believe that the manager has fallen short in the following key areas:


- Tactics/decision making. Wenger's laissez faire approach to most games requires players with the ability to read a game and make productive decisions themselves, yet we are clearly short of this type of player. Why does he not see this.


- Lack of pragmatism. IMO part of his refusal to strengthen in key areas is because of his loyalty to his injury crocks. But while we wait constantly for injured players to return, we drop points. This is something that happens every season without fail. Persisting with injury prone players may be 'loyal' but it is not something that managers focussed totally on the main prize would do. To make matters worse, his persistence with underperforming players is bizzare. Take Elneny for example. Purchased to deal with our issues in CM, and hasn't done a lot wrong when we have seen him play, yet rather than give him game time, Wenger basically waited for Coq to come back from injury; and even seems to prefer to play Flamini (who was only ever emergency back up, and has been a liability on many occasions). Similarly he has persisted in playing Ramsey in MF; and seems not to have noticed/tried to find an alternative to a worryingly erratic Alexis recently.


Transfers - I know that the club seems to have acknowledged that our scouting system has been below par, but Wenger's approach to transfers has been bizzare. He has swung from filling his basket with unknown prospects to making single 'marquee' signings, without seemingly improving the overall competitiveness of the team. Whether this is because he is too stretched, or is again the result of Wenger placing his own experimentation over the team's prospects of success is a moot point.

[selassie]

It was years ago but it illustrates the way these billionaire-fueled clubs have been operating.
And I don't disagree about mismanagement but over the last 2 years we've won the Cup, if we do push on and win the league this year - and we certainly have a chance to - then he can't be doing that bad a job.
If we don't then it will be because we don't have enough up front which Wenger is completely responsible for so I agree he should be sacked. Is it so unreasonable to wait and see what happens though? We're hardly 10 points off the top.

It has nothing to do with Wenger and his recruitment policy.

Well I want him gone regardless, if he wins he goes out on a high.

[selassie]

2 great posts. What this season has thrown into sharp relief is that its not all about the billions that a club has to spend. At least in the EPL. Sure, over a period, you can expect the big spenders to be there or thereabouts, but as we have seen, pure cashbook managing can fail too.


In any event, with Leicester; Watford; Stoke; Southampton; West Ham; Sp*rs etc we have seen that it is possible to buy quality players without spending 10's of millions.


As you say, a club with our resources; stature; location and history should be in a prime position to strengthen our sqaud season on season. In particular (and this is what frustrates me most), the stability we have enjoyed, and Wenger's longevity should mean that we have a settled, balanced team, with the manager being able to plan and cover properly for injuries/lean spells without too much disruption.


Instead, we seem to have anything but a settled, balanced team. I know that injuries have played their part, but in truth, this state of affairs is a permanent situation under Wenger - and I consider it to be negligent that we have been left short in absolutely key areas. If you look at the 'traditional' top 6 teams in this country our strike force quality; and back-up central MF is simply not what you would expect from a team of our stature.


I am really tiring of seemingly being part of Wenger's endless experiment. I believe that the manager has fallen short in the following key areas:


- Tactics/decision making. Wenger's laissez faire approach to most games requires players with the ability to read a game and make productive decisions themselves, yet we are clearly short of this type of player. Why does he not see this.


- Lack of pragmatism. IMO part of his refusal to strengthen in key areas is because of his loyalty to his injury crocks. But while we wait constantly for injured players to return, we drop points. This is something that happens every season without fail. Persisting with injury prone players may be 'loyal' but it is not something that managers focussed totally on the main prize would do. To make matters worse, his persistence with underperforming players is bizzare. Take Elneny for example. Purchased to deal with our issues in CM, and hasn't done a lot wrong when we have seen him play, yet rather than give him game time, Wenger basically waited for Coq to come back from injury; and even seems to prefer to play Flamini (who was only ever emergency back up, and has been a liability on many occasions). Similarly he has persisted in playing Ramsey in MF; and seems not to have noticed/tried to find an alternative to a worryingly erratic Alexis recently.


Transfers - I know that the club seems to have acknowledged that our scouting system has been below par, but Wenger's approach to transfers has been bizzare. He has swung from filling his basket with unknown prospects to making single 'marquee' signings, without seemingly improving the overall competitiveness of the team. Whether this is because he is too stretched, or is again the result of Wenger placing his own experimentation over the team's prospects of success is a moot point.

:gp: totally agree.

[selassie]

Exactly. In fact, Wenger can’t keep blaming outside forces for inflating the market. He needs to recognise that it’s not 1997 anymore. He now has a rep for buying cheap and selling high. Everyone knows the Prem is flushed with cash. Everyone knows the club is flushed with cash when we publish the profits and boast about self-sufficiency. Players like Walcott, Ox and Ramsey would have gone for peanuts if moving to another Championship club or one of the smaller Prem clubs. But because it’s us and because Wenger’s involved, they try to milk us. If this were 1997, these guys would go down as the Jermain Pennants of the squad. But since clubs have seen Wenger buy Anelka for £500k and then sell him for £23m, sign Overmars for £7m, Petit for £2.5m and then sell them both for £30m, yet still pick up replacements players like Henry for £10m and Pires for £6m….no way could that carry on. We’ve seen Dortmund and Atletico pick up some cheap gems over the past few years because they’re like what we were 20 years ago.

If you look Wenger’s transfers during the Highbury years, he’d sign a lot of duds and reserve players that were awful but they’d fly under the radar because they were cheap and we had a great first team. That’s not the case anymore and he hasn’t adjusted well. He’s not going to get lucky like that anymore. The risk and stakes are higher and he knows an expensive flop will put him under the radar.

Yep, totally agree. I'd even go a step further and say that if Wenger isn't prepared to adjust the current team tactically to play to the strengths of the likes of some of the players then he should bite the bullet and buy a team that can play exactly the way he wants them to play.