Manchester United U21s 3 v Arsenal 2 - Match Reaction

[Xhaka Can’t]

We are a complete fucking embarrassment.

A big fucking profitable embarrassment.

The only composure shown today was by the United kids - to lose against this rabble andto make them look this good and turn OT rapturous with delight while coughing up the league to Leicester or Tottenham has to be the end of the line for Wenger.

It just HAS to be.

Every thing he has built up has now been destroyed. And in another characteristcally humiliating fashion.

[adzzzbatch]

What an absolute fucking shambles.

Wenger and the cunts wearing the shirt should be fucking embarrassed.

Humiliated yet again.

[Maestro]

legacy ruined by wenget, fans in the terraces must turn on him now. he must go, end of!

[Munchies]

It's the constant hope that kills.

Wenger, just go.

Spurs will finish above us, a half decent manager is worth their weight.

So fed up and gutted with the usual BS time and time again :(

[Letters]

Wenger :wave:

Of you pop.

Supported him while we were in the title race but we lost to a load of kids today in a must win game. There's no excuse.

[selassie]

We are a complete fucking embarrassment.

A big fucking profitable embarrassment.

The only composure shown today was by the United kids - to lose against this rabble andto make them look this good and turn OT rapturous with delight while coughing up the league to Leicester or Tottenham has to be the end of the line for Wenger.

It just HAS to be.

Every thing he has built up has now been destroyed. And in another characteristcally humiliating fashion.

I agree, sad thing is we made their team of Kids look really good today, this is a Man United team that hardly ever scores yet they ripped us to shreads. That Rashford couldn't even make their U21 team yet we made him look like Messi.

The league is gone, the fact that we are now chasing Leicester and Spurs is a total embarrassment TBH, we'll probably lose at Spurs next week too.

[Marc Overmars]

You only have to look at how they celebrated their win to know what a complete fuck up that was from us.

I think we've seen enough from this lot to know they will not be winning the league, there just isn't any sort of fluidity to our attack and our defence is as calamitous as ever. Hugely embarrassing and something Wenger needs to be held accountable for.

Spurs to finish us off next weekend then we can focus on the 4th place cup.

[Özim]

Joke of a manager who would somehow screw up the title even if you gave him a 10 point lead at the start of the season. Once considered a top manager, turned into a glorified scout, turned into a 2nd rate pub league manager.

Has to go now, if you're still happy to support this poor excuse for a manager now you need your head tested.

[Ernesto]

I'm so, so angry.

The most embarrassing result we've had since Southampton away.

I just...I have no words.

Fck football, fck the league cup final and fck Wenger

[fakeyank]

I can smell a new contract for Wenger.

[Letters]

Don't agree about the legacy by the way. The legacy is what it is and the two cups will help so long as he doesn't stay too much longer.
But he's clearly not the right man to lead us on, I hope he goes at the end of the season and in the fullness of time people will appreciate the things he did for us.
Shame it didn't end with one last title. There's still the FA Cup I guess. It's not enough to keep his job but it would let him go out on a bit more of a high.

[Munchies]

Surely Spurs finishing above us is the final nail for most Arsene nuthuggers ?

Can't see how he can stay on

[gunnerrrrr]

How can a manager of a world class club not win at one stadium for over 10 years?

At what point do you look at your methods and realise you either haven't moved with the times or that you are no longer good enough.

Modern football is being dominated by more youthful managers who have better ideas of football, fitness and the general approach.

Fergason for all his annoyance bought the right coaching talent around him, whereas Wengers refusal to change has made him outdated and a laughing stock.

Not one Arsenal fan can look at Utds team today and not feel utterly embarrassed.....imo this is worse that the 8-2.

[Maestro]

Wenger :wave:

Of you pop.

Supported him while we were in the title race but we lost to a load of kids today in a must win game. There's no excuse.


fair play letters, you are true to your word ....and agreed, he has to go now. it's over for him here.

[Globalgunner]

How can you win a league whwn your game is so 1 dimensional. Just look at their goals and compare with ours. We will not shoot unless within a yard of the goal line. The Herrera goal, we would never have scored as we would have passed that ball sideways instead of shooting. We play a style that is utterly predicatble easy too defend against and so monotonous. Sure we score the poetry goal once or twice a season, but is that it?. The buffoon has to leave, he is killing this club.

[Ernesto]

What was the point of replacing welbeck with iwobi?

Someone who's already scored, who wants to score more against his former club being replaced by a teenager

The mind boggles

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Sounesss says we're bordering on a joke today.

Bordering?

[Kano]

Don't agree about the legacy by the way. The legacy is what it is and the two cups will help so long as he doesn't stay too much longer.
But he's clearly not the right man to lead us on, I hope he goes at the end of the season and in the fullness of time people will appreciate the things he did for us.
Shame it didn't end with one last title. There's still the FA Cup I guess. It's not enough to keep his job but it would let him go out on a bit more of a high.
He should've taken the opportunity to go at the end of last season but I think it's more likely than not that he'll be here next season.

[Marc Overmars]

I did have a chuckle when we were made favourites for this. Us freezing up at Old Trafford is one of the safest bets in the game, regardless of the personnel on show.

[Kano]

White Hart Lane to look forward to next week anyway...

[selassie]

He should've taken the opportunity to go at the end of last season but I think it's more likely than not that he'll be here next season.

I know I sound like a broken record Kano but assuming we finish below Leicester & Spuds if Wenger has any pride he'll walk. There is absolutely no way he can justify that.

[fakeyank]

What was the point of replacing welbeck with iwobi?

Someone who's already scored, who wants to score more against his former club being replaced by a teenager

The mind boggles

What was the point of playing Walcott and Ramsey?

Why dont we have a different game plan?

Why is AW still considered God among majority of Arsenal fans?

Mind boggles..

[Marc Overmars]

We can only hope Man City come through for us.

[selassie]

White Hart Lane to look forward to next week anyway...

Can't watch it, seriously...I think I'm going to give it a miss.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

How can a manager of a world class club not win at one stadium for over 10 years?

At what point do you look at your methods and realise you either haven't moved with the times or that you are no longer good enough.

Modern football is being dominated by more youthful managers who have better ideas of football, fitness and the general approach.

Fergason for all his annoyance bought the right coaching talent around him, whereas Wengers refusal to change has made him outdated and a laughing stock.

Not one Arsenal fan can look at Utds team today and not feel utterly embarrassed.....imo this is worse that the 8-2.

What sickens me is the lack of desire.

We saw a bunch of kids on the team sheet and the mentality was we don't need to even turn up today and they didn't.

Like against Southampton they just didn't turn up. What the fuck do we have to do to motivate these cunts

Wenger is a dinosaur exposed by another dinosaur today, the difference is that as well we've got a squad who don't give a shit.
You can blame him as much as you want, and when even Letters thinks he should go that means something

But fuck me, these guys are professional footballers many of whom have had careers at clubs before coming to us, what kind of cunts can't motivate themselves for a title chase?.

Wenger is a hopeless tactician, hopeless at match preparation but these are professionals how about deciding between them that there should be some pride in the kit they put on. That playing for us means something.

[Kano]

I know I sound like a broken record Kano but assuming we finish below Leicester & Spuds if Wenger has any pride he'll walk. There is absolutely no way he can justify that.

I just don't think he will. He'll believe he can turn it around and the owners both back him, so I can't see why they'd want him to leave either.

[Master Splinter]

Best refereeing performance I have seen for a while. I don't think you can blame him for not seeing the Rashord handball and he was lenient on both Herrera and Elneny, rather than just sending the Arsenal player off like most others do.

[Gooner23]

How typical to win a big game and then follow it up with a pathetic defeat. No lessons learnt once again. Plenty of player changes in the last ten years but there is one constant. If he isn't willing to stand down in the summer he should be fired. Won't hold my breath though.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

What was the point of playing Walcott and Ramsey?

Why dont we have a different game plan?

Why is AW still considered God among majority of Arsenal fans?

Mind boggles..

Because for many he's the only manager they've ever known.

You could no more ask them to turn their backs on wenger than you could ask them
To murder their own fathers.

I don't buy into this shit that we couldn't have got Guardiola, it's just the club is drenched in this mentality of complacency

[Globalgunner]

Losing at United is almost a constant. There was a game when Fergie named every person who couldnt get a game including the Da Silva twins and a the cast of the Teletubbies in a Carling Cup game and they still crapped all over us. Only God knows what we do in training, because it hardly ever prepares us for the game in hand.
Im waiting for the Maestro to blame "naive defending " or summat for this loss too.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Best refereeing performance I have seen for a while. I don't think you can blame him for not seeing the Rashord handball and he was lenient on both Herrera and Elneny, rather than just sending the Arsenal player off like most others do.

He realised he didn't have to.

[Globalgunner]

How typical to win a big game and then follow it up with a pathetic defeat. No lessons learnt once again. Plenty of player changes in the last ten years but there is one constant. If he isn't willing to stand down in the summer he should be fired. Won't hold my breath though.

Which big game was that. Did you miss the Barca match?

[Kano]

And Sanogo now has more league goals than our lot this year :lol:

[Gooner23]

Even without any signings last summer I was hopeful of us competing and naively thought we had a decent enough squad. Sadly the same old deficiencies keep rearing their head. Rank bad defending and nothing going forward.

[Power n Glory]

What was the point of playing Walcott and Ramsey?

Why dont we have a different game plan?

Why is AW still considered God among majority of Arsenal fans?

Mind boggles..

We badly miss one player. Cazorla. I can't see any other player in this squad that will change things for us. It's all fallen to shit since he's been injured.

[Gooner23]

Which big game was that. Did you miss the Barca match?

I meant in the league.

[Gooner23]

We badly miss one player. Cazorla. I can't see any other player in this squad that will change things for us. It's all fallen to shit since he's been injured.

Ramsey is hopeless in centre mid

[Kano]

Even without any signings last summer I was hopeful of us competing and naively thought we had a decent enough squad. Sadly the same old deficiencies keep rearing their head. Rank bad defending and nothing going forward.

Holes throughout the entire squad - it just looks good on paper.

It still should've been enough once the level of the league this season was realised but alas.

[Gubby Allen]

Fourth is looking a little tighter now. We'll go through the motions in the Champions League second leg and about half of the Premier League matches left and just win the others to make sure we nick 4th on the last day, to make sure that we qualify for the Champions League next season...

When we'll do the bare minimum to get through the group stages in second place, when the focus will then shift from the Champions League and the Title, to making sure that we finish 4th and qualify for the Champions League...

Where we'll do the bare minimum ... and repeat. Same old sh*te year after year.

[Power n Glory]

Also, Merts and Kos have to be the pairing at the back. We've been shit for a while going forward and we've been pubbing it. But we've had a good defence at least.

[Maestro]

Losing at United is almost a constant. There was a game when Fergie named every person who couldnt get a game including the Da Silva twins and a the cast of the Teletubbies in a Carling Cup game and they still crapped all over us. Only God knows what we do in training, because it hardly ever prepares us for the game in hand.
Im waiting for the Maestro to blame "naive defending " or summat for this loss too.

this can't be wenget's fault surely. that defending was dire and we can't get rid of the manager when it's clearly down to naive defending.

[Marc Overmars]

We badly miss one player. Cazorla. I can't see any other player in this squad that will change things for us. It's all fallen to shit since he's been injured.

I agree. No one operates in tight spaces as well as he does. Our midfield is a sham, full of cloggers and a beleaguered Ozil.

[Marc Overmars]

Also, Merts and Kos have to be the pairing at the back. We've been shit for a while going forward and we've been pubbing it. But we've had a good defence at least.

Gabriel was dreadful today. He looked like shitting himself every time he got the ball!

[Kano]

Gabriel is making too many mistakes whenever he comes into the side. No point having him in the team for pace if he just dicks it up everywhere else.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Fourth is looking a little tighter now. We'll go through the motions in the Champions League second leg and about half of the Premier League matches left and just win the others to make sure we nick 4th on the last day, to make sure that we qualify for the Champions League next season...

When we'll do the bare minimum to get through the group stages in second place, when the focus will then shift from the Champions League and the Title, to making sure that we finish 4th and qualify for the Champions League...

Where we'll do the bare minimum ... and repeat. Same old sh*te year after year.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpjGxq5uE3A

[Kano]

Time to book a place on the plane for Rashford.

[Globalgunner]

Gabriel was dreadful today. He looked like shitting himself every time he got the ball!

Well we have to upgrade or persist with him. Do you guys realise how old Merts is. Is he going to be our no 1 pair CB next season too?. I agree that Gabriel was at fault for the 2nd goal, kept reversing into this box when he should have made a block outside the box. He was a good defender until he came to us.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Gabriel is making too many mistakes whenever he comes into the side. No point having him in the team for pace if he just dicks it up everywhere else.

It's the Vermaelen problem again. Two similar defenders whereas when BFG is in there, the role for the other is absolutely clear.

Having said that, we left the midfield space massively open again.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Wenger after the match.

"blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, great character, blah blah blah"

[Gooner23]

Our midfield is a shambles without Cazorla. Headless chicken Flamini or headless chicken Ramsey.

[Marc Overmars]

Having said that, we left the midfield space massively open again.

Nothing will change until we get a grasp on that. The Herrera goal after all our bluster with the ball was the most predictable thing you're ever going to see.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Also, who was tapped up ahead of this match?

[selassie]

Our midfield is a shambles without Cazorla. Headless chicken Flamini or headless chicken Ramsey.

Yeah said this a while ago, we lack control in Central Midfield, even Jack would be a massive upgrade on Ramsey.

[Power n Glory]

Well we have to upgrade or persist with him. Do you guys realise how old Merts is. Is he going to be our no 1 pair CB next season too?. I agree that Gabriel was at fault for the 2nd goal, kept reversing into this box when he should have made a block outside the box. He was a good defender until he came to us.

At fault for both goals. Merts is old but we never look so badly unorganised like that. Kos looked terrible as well. It's not a solid pairing and until the season is over, they shouldn't play together again.

[selassie]

At fault for both goals. Merts is old but we never look so badly unorganised like that. Kos looked terrible as well. It's not a solid pairing and until the season is over, they shouldn't play together again.

Yeah i agree with this, the only thing Gabriel has on Merts is pace, nothing else...in fact Merts brings a lot more to the team. Gabriel has been shaky in a lot of games this season, he makes a lot of mistakes.

[fakeyank]

Yeah said this a while ago, we lack control in Central Midfield, even Jack would be a massive upgrade on Ramsey.

Frankly, Denilson looks like an upgrade on Ramsey at this point.

[Marc Overmars]

We need to put everything into the Hull replay, none of this resting nonsense that never works for us anyway. The Cup can once again be our saving grace, although with the possibility of Leicester or Spurs winning the league, the FA Cup will never feel more tinpot.

[topgun]

legacy ruined by wenget, fans in the terraces must turn on him now. he must go, end of!

This is what should happen,but I doubt it will.

[Gooner23]

We need to put everything into the Hull replay, none of this resting nonsense that never works for us anyway. The Cup can once again be our saving grace, although with the possibility of Leicester or Spurs winning the league, the FA Cup will never feel more tinpot.

I honestly couldn't give a shite about the cup. It was all about the league this season and we've blown it.

[Munchies]

Wenger on Manchester United: "Let's not got overboard. They had a very experienced midfield and spent a lot of money."
https://twitter.com/Arsenal/status/703983682344898562


Guys, I'm fucking done with this clown

[fakeyank]

Wenger on Manchester United: "Let's not got overboard. They had a very experienced midfield and spent a lot of money."
https://twitter.com/Arsenal/status/703983682344898562


Guys, I'm fucking done with this clown

Someone needs to slap him in the vagina.

[selassie]

Wenger on Manchester United: "Let's not got overboard. They had a very experienced midfield and spent a lot of money."
https://twitter.com/Arsenal/status/703983682344898562


Guys, I'm fucking done with this clown

Was just about to post this, unbelievable stuff isn't it? :haha:

[selassie]

We need to put everything into the Hull replay, none of this resting nonsense that never works for us anyway. The Cup can once again be our saving grace, although with the possibility of Leicester or Spurs winning the league, the FA Cup will never feel more tinpot.

We'll have to play a full strength team at Hull, we won't be going there and winning with that side he put out against them the other week.

TBH, the FA Cup won't mean anything if Leicester or Spurs win the league.

[Globalgunner]

Was just about to post this, unbelievable stuff isn't it? :haha:

I told anyone out there that Wenger not spending money is a defence mechanism against inevitable failure. works like a charm until Leicester wins the EPL. Then what? They won because they are under no pressure to win?

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger on Manchester United: "Let's not got overboard. They had a very experienced midfield and spent a lot of money."
https://twitter.com/Arsenal/status/703983682344898562


Guys, I'm fucking done with this clown

http://abccitizen.net/memes/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/sand.jpg

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcUAqQqW0AAmJ-F.jpg

:lol:

[Master Splinter]

http://abccitizen.net/memes/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/sand.jpg

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/67/590x/secondary/174611.jpg

[selassie]

I told anyone out there that Wenger not spending money is a defence mechanism against inevitable failure. works like a charm until Leicester wins the EPL. Then what? They won because they are under no pressure to win?

Yep, if either of the two above us win it Wenger is pretty much f*cked, he literally has no excuses. What makes it even worse is Wenger thought he didn't need to improve upon the playing squad in the summer. He really has f*cked up this season if we don't win it.

I personally think we've blown it, this team is just too inconsistent and disorganised to win it, they don't look like champions, far from it.

Wenger has been tactically schooled by Ranieri and Pocchettino, they make him look like an amateur.

[Munchies]

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/67/590x/secondary/174611.jpg


He's gonna do the same for the Euros :lol:

No one is available

[adzzzbatch]

Wenger on Manchester United: "Let's not got overboard. They had a very experienced midfield and spent a lot of money."
https://twitter.com/Arsenal/status/703983682344898562


Guys, I'm fucking done with this clown

He's gone looney! The fool needs to just STFU.

[adzzzbatch]

I told anyone out there that Wenger not spending money is a defence mechanism against inevitable failure. works like a charm until Leicester wins the EPL. Then what? They won because they are under no pressure to win?

Oh don't you worry the excuses will be lined up!

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqz5yL3iROA&feature=youtu.be

lol

[Özim]

Also, Merts and Kos have to be the pairing at the back. We've been shit for a while going forward and we've been pubbing it. But we've had a good defence at least.

We need a new CB tbh judging from what we're seeing, someone top class.

[fakeyank]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqz5yL3iROA&feature=youtu.be

lol

56 minute video, seriously?!

[Niall_Quinn]

Our midfield is a shambles without Cazorla. Headless chicken Flamini or headless chicken Ramsey.

Ramsey wasn't playing in the middle today, he was the striker. Ozil was covering for him. That might not make a lot of sense to uneducated observers who haven't made 20,000 subs in their careers, but if you have a special appreciation of the game (like Wenger) then you can only really blame Bellerin for being tapped up.

[Munchies]

56 minute video, seriously?!

I skipped through it for the other guy who was ranting after he was at the game lol

Spoke alot of snese

[dostoy]

This is as bad as I have seen on here, but not one person should be surprised when Arsenal lose against any team at any time.

When was the last time we won an away game ?

Seriously, how do we the fans get Wenger out ?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

This is as bad as I have seen on here, but not one person should be surprised when Arsenal lose against any team at any time.

When was the last time we won an away game ?

Seriously, how do we the fans get Wenger out ?

The previous away game tbf. It has only been one win in quite some time though.

[Letters]

Why is AW still considered God among majority of Arsenal fans?
He isn't :shrug:

I've been one of the most patient on here and even I have said this is his last chance to challenge properly for the title. He's cocked it up and, worse, the most likely candidates to win the title are Leicester or S...no, no, I can't say it. Completely unacceptable for a club of our resources.

[dostoy]

Oh yeah I forgot about Bournemouth, It seems so long ago.

How do we get Wenger out ?

[Xhaka Can’t]

This is going to kill off GW - there is literally nothing left to debate.

[Niall_Quinn]

What sickens me is the lack of desire.

We saw a bunch of kids on the team sheet and the mentality was we don't need to even turn up today and they didn't.

Like against Southampton they just didn't turn up. What the fuck do we have to do to motivate these cunts

Wenger is a dinosaur exposed by another dinosaur today, the difference is that as well we've got a squad who don't give a shit.
You can blame him as much as you want, and when even Letters thinks he should go that means something

But fuck me, these guys are professional footballers many of whom have had careers at clubs before coming to us, what kind of cunts can't motivate themselves for a title chase?.

Wenger is a hopeless tactician, hopeless at match preparation but these are professionals how about deciding between them that there should be some pride in the kit they put on. That playing for us means something.

Nah, you can't blame the players. They are doing what modern players do. They're in it for the cash and they couldn't give a fuck about anything else. That's why it's so hilarious when one of the greedy bastards sells out to the highest bidder claiming he's ambitious. Look at the chavs and the gypos. Same shit. Mercenaries. Cosseted, pampered, injured if they break a fingernail, can't play more than three times a month, their main focus is renegotiating the contract they just signed. 99% of them are Theo Walcott now.

But even so, you still need a manager that can set out a few tactics and have a plan or two to counter the tactics and planning of the opposition. We do not have that. To repeat, our guy is not capable of fulfilling the most basic football requirements and he hasn't been capable for years. The results and performances demonstrate it. If he'd not had the resources of Arsenal at his disposal and had to manage a mid-table team he'd have been relegated time and again. BUT, he's a genius when it comes to shovelling cash at his bosses and lying to and misdirecting the fans so they don't string him up.

He's had 10 seasons to prove he's not an old hack faking it. How many more does he get before the fans at least find a single voice and turn against him? The owners never will, so it will have to be the fans who drive the old fraud out.

[Niall_Quinn]

This is going to kill off GW - there is literally nothing left to debate.

Well...

Rashford or Pele, who was the greatest?

Sam Allardyce - how unappreciated is this genius of a man?

FIFA - now that it has been cleaned up and is corruption free, can Azerbaijan finally get a World Cup?

So many things.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger...

Good determination, good togetherness, good spirit.

We fought to the end, had a lot of the ball. We can avoid the goals with better defending.

We do not want to analyse individuals (Theo Walcott), come to you own conclusions.

It is disappointing, we must prepare for the next game and come back stronger.

(This is post Spuds game from next week btw, but I put it here because there's no thread for that yet)

[Özim]

Wenger is to blame, but I have to say he's also built a squad of gutless players, who never deliver when the chips are down.

IMO as well as a new manager we need a bit of an overhaul in the squad, we need a quality CB, someone with some sort of leadership quality, a DM (not an unknown like Elneny - hasn't played much but hasn't looked great either), we need a top class striker, a top class winger and a bit of a clearout.

We really need a few players who are willing to stand up and be counted, this is of course Wenger's fault for once again putting together a team full of what I can only call pansies (much like him).

Sanchez has gone right off the boil I have to say, but at the end of the day you need more than one or two players, you need to have other players who can contribute and perform when others are off form.

The day Wenger moves on will be a great day in the history of Arsenal because we won't have to put up with this rubbish week in week out anymore.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

How many of us are in our jobs for the money?

I'd hazard a guess that 99.99% of us are, and we've all had inept clueless bosses but we still have the wherewithal to pull out our fingers and do our job to the best of our ability.

Believe me I absolve Wenger from nothing, the guy is completely inept. But the players are cunts, I am in a job where literally I could get away with doing fuck all but I have the pride in myself not to do that because I'm paid at the end of the day.

So I cannot release the players from blame. They are cunts.

[Xhaka Can’t]

How many of us are in our jobs for the money?

I'd hazard a guess that 99.99% of us are, and we've all had inept clueless bosses but we still have the wherewithal to pull out our fingers and do our job to the best of our ability.

Believe me I absolve Wenger from nothing, the guy is completely inept. But the players are cunts, I am in a job where literally I could get away with doing fuck all but I have the pride in myself not to do that because I'm paid at the end of the day.

So I cannot release the players from blame. They are cunts.

This is supposed to be 'fast food'.

Hurry the fuck up.

[Niall_Quinn]

How many of us are in our jobs for the money?

I'd hazard a guess that 99.99% of us are, and we've all had inept clueless bosses but we still have the wherewithal to pull out our fingers and do our job to the best of our ability.

Believe me I absolve Wenger from nothing, the guy is completely inept. But the players are cunts, I am in a job where literally I could get away with doing fuck all but I have the pride in myself not to do that because I'm paid at the end of the day.

So I cannot release the players from blame. They are cunts.

You're rare then because most of the people I come across are absolutely shit at their jobs, without sanction.

[fakeyank]

He isn't :shrug:

I've been one of the most patient on here and even I have said this is his last chance to challenge properly for the title. He's cocked it up and, worse, the most likely candidates to win the title are Leicester or S...no, no, I can't say it. Completely unacceptable for a club of our resources.

I am not talking about GW. I am talking about people I have spoken to, or heard around the stadium and/or London. It just amazes me tbf..

[Globalgunner]

You're rare then because most of the people I come across are absolutely shit at their jobs, without sanction.

Leave Letters out of this

[Niall_Quinn]

I am not talking about GW. I am talking about people I have spoken to, or heard around the stadium and/or London. It just amazes me tbf..

Those are tourists. They're on holiday so are bound to be upbeat.

[fakeyank]

Leave Letters out of this

:haha:

[Marc Overmars]

I am not talking about GW. I am talking about people I have spoken to, or heard around the stadium and/or London. It just amazes me tbf..

He is considered a legend and rightly so but he lost deity status a long time ago.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I am not talking about GW. I am talking about people I have spoken to, or heard around the stadium and/or London. It just amazes me tbf..

Tbf, they were Chelsea supporters.

[topgun]

Oh yeah I forgot about Bournemouth, It seems so long ago.

How do we get Wenger out ?

It should not have come to this but it's time for the fans to have their say and let be known enough is enough.

[Kano]

Oh yeah I forgot about Bournemouth, It seems so long ago.

How do we get Wenger out ?

You mean a Wengxit?

[fakeyank]

http://arsenalist.com/f/2015-16/man-utd-vs-arsenal/graeme-souness-and-thierry-henry-rip-into-arsenal.html

[Kano]

http://arsenalist.com/f/2015-16/man-utd-vs-arsenal/graeme-souness-and-thierry-henry-rip-into-arsenal.html

Awkward. I wonder if Thierry will say that when he strolls into work tomorrow...

[Power n Glory]

How many of us are in our jobs for the money?

I'd hazard a guess that 99.99% of us are, and we've all had inept clueless bosses but we still have the wherewithal to pull out our fingers and do our job to the best of our ability.

Believe me I absolve Wenger from nothing, the guy is completely inept. But the players are cunts, I am in a job where literally I could get away with doing fuck all but I have the pride in myself not to do that because I'm paid at the end of the day.

So I cannot release the players from blame. They are cunts.

It's a combination of both. I'd have started with that attacking line up but I wouldn't have dropped Merts for Gabriel. When you concede three easy goals and experienced defenders are embarrassed by a kid that's making his Premier League debut, it shouldn't be a mystery to why heads dropped in that game. We've been piss poor for months and pubbing it to victory but the difference is we haven't been leaking goals. We did score two today. Not the best game from Ozil but with a goal and assist, that should have been enough for the victory.

[Niall_Quinn]

Gabriel and Kos were all over the place today because Coquelin couldn't be in 3 places at one time. A tiny flaw in Wenger's fucked up midfield policy. Coquelin must get mightily dispirited when he's abandoned like that in the centre. Bellerin and Monreal shouldn't get off lightly either, their passing was atrocious. But really, the absolute standout waste of space was Theo Walcott. Again. A nothing layer when there's no money on the table. It's such a shame we didn't sell him or loan him to Leicester or the spuds so we could have fucked their seasons up. Although neither manager there would have been crazy enough to play him after the first two outings. Can you imagine if we did bring Simeone in? He'd have a heart attack the minute he saw Walcott on the training pitch.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://arsenalist.com/f/2015-16/man-utd-vs-arsenal/graeme-souness-and-thierry-henry-rip-into-arsenal.html

They don't have the balls to call out the real culprit.

[Power n Glory]

Gabriel and Kos were all over the place today because Coquelin couldn't be in 3 places at one time. A tiny flaw in Wenger's fucked up midfield policy. Coquelin must get mightily dispirited when he's abandoned like that in the centre. Bellerin and Monreal shouldn't get off lightly either, their passing was atrocious. But really, the absolute standout waste of space was Theo Walcott. Again. A nothing layer when there's no money on the table. It's such a shame we didn't sell him or loan him to Leicester or the spuds so we could have fucked their seasons up. Although neither manager there would have been crazy enough to play him after the first two outings. Can you imagine if we did bring Simeone in? He'd have a heart attack the minute he saw Walcott on the training pitch.

Looking at the first goal, can you really blame anyone else but Gabriel for not clearing that ball? Mistakes were made in the build up and everyone involved can only blame themselves. I can't blame the midfield for Theo losing the ball there. You just have to get the basics right. Sanchez should have been marking better and tracking better and Gabriel should have made contact with that ball to clear it. When it's as simple as making a clearance, you can't blame the midfield.

2nd goal...how again can you blame anyone but the CB's for not picking up that kid on his debut? No one else can be blamed.

3rd goal ok. That's the only goal where the midfield were nowhere to be found. But it's hard to pass the buck the other goals. Collective errors in all of it but excuses can't be made for the errors.

[gunnerrrrr]

Gabriel and Kos were all over the place today because Coquelin couldn't be in 3 places at one time. A tiny flaw in Wenger's fucked up midfield policy. Coquelin must get mightily dispirited when he's abandoned like that in the centre. Bellerin and Monreal shouldn't get off lightly either, their passing was atrocious. But really, the absolute standout waste of space was Theo Walcott. Again. A nothing layer when there's no money on the table. It's such a shame we didn't sell him or loan him to Leicester or the spuds so we could have fucked their seasons up. Although neither manager there would have been crazy enough to play him after the first two outings. Can you imagine if we did bring Simeone in? He'd have a heart attack the minute he saw Walcott on the training pitch.

To add to the above, i have to say Ramsey is a huge part of the problem.

We miss a player like Carzola immensely.

Ramsey just doesn't understand the role he has to do in the middle, he is like a energetic bunny, but without any kind of substance. Thats why Carzola is so vital, he does the simple things well and in general keeps our play ticking over.

I also don't understand why Campbell was suddenly dropped?? It baffles me why Wenger is not playing him when he was so useful, worked hard and scored/assisted.

We have some gaping problems, and no immediate solutions.....not sure what is in store next or what Wenger could do to the immediate problem or Ramsey.

[Chippy]

We are a complete fucking embarrassment.

A big fucking profitable embarrassment.

The only composure shown today was by the United kids - to lose against this rabble andto make them look this good and turn OT rapturous with delight while coughing up the league to Leicester or Tottenham has to be the end of the line for Wenger.

It just HAS to be.

Every thing he has built up has now been destroyed. And in another characteristcally humiliating fashion.

This could get me banned, but years ago when I posted as Ashburton, I said then that Wenger was passed it, well, I was bloody right! I will say it again, his early success came from inheriting the best back five this country has ever seen! Wenger out.....please!!!

[Niall_Quinn]

Looking at the first goal, can you really blame anyone else but Gabriel for not clearing that ball? Mistakes were made in the build up and everyone involved can only blame themselves. I can't blame the midfield for Theo losing the ball there. You just have to get the basics right. Sanchez should have been marking better and tracking better and Gabriel should have made contact with that ball to clear it. When it's as simple as making a clearance, you can't blame the midfield.

2nd goal...how again can you blame anyone but the CB's for not picking up that kid on his debut? No one else can be blamed.

3rd goal ok. That's the only goal where the midfield were nowhere to be found. But it's hard to pass the buck the other goals. Collective errors in all of it but excuses can't be made for the errors.

Of course you can blame Theo for the first goal - WTF? And Alexis was asleep for the second. Yes, the defenders have to do better too. of course, but we defend as a team and we were down to 10 today due to yet another Theo no-show so it's going to be more difficult to avoid being pulled to pieces. Nobody is saying Gabriel played well, nor did any of the back four in fact. But if the midfield can't be arsed then half the defensive strategy goes out the window. Coquelin actually played quite well today. Hopelessly outgunned by Hernia and Snidey, but he was all over the middle trying to get tackles in, covering the huge gaps left by Ramsey. It was a joke. The manager sent that team out there with nothing and during the game he gave them nothing either. You get a proper manager in there and suddenly we have a midfield, suddenly we can defend, suddenly we are taking care of the basics. But as it stands, of course you are going to get mistakes all over the place if the manager can't be arsed to do his job. Mistakes are one thing, but a lack of effort is simply unforgivable. Theo Walcott is a fucking disgrace, a thief. And Alexis will be heading down that road if he doesn't pull himself up sharpish. Only a complete fuck up like Wenger could ruin a player like Alexis and he's doing it. We MUST get this dinosaur out of the club before anything else can be fixed on the pitch. Pure complacency and a massive lack of ambition, that's what Wenger gives us. And nothing else.

[Niall_Quinn]

This could get me banned, but years ago when I posted as Ashburton, I said then that Wenger was passed it, well, I was bloody right! I will say it again, his early success came from inheriting the best back five this country has ever seen! Wenger out.....please!!!

You were absolutely right and I hold my hands up. It shouldn't get you banned to tell the truth. I would have been one of the stupid cocks singing his praises. But we all wake up in the end. Or most do. That cock Ty is still on there backing the manager. Maybe he gets special points for loyalty and if he comes top of the loyalty league his prize will be to let the Arsenal board and Wenger literally shit on him.

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJP9tNqGrzo

World class shrink required. Too right. And a straitjacket to cart the old goat out of here.

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ifsrtC9cbM

lmao

[Power n Glory]

Of course you can blame Theo for the first goal - WTF? And Alexis was asleep for the second. Yes, the defenders have to do better too. of course, but we defend as a team and we were down to 10 today due to yet another Theo no-show so it's going to be more difficult to avoid being pulled to pieces. Nobody is saying Gabriel played well, nor did any of the back four in fact. But if the midfield can't be arsed then half the defensive strategy goes out the window. Coquelin actually played quite well today. Hopelessly outgunned by Hernia and Snidey, but he was all over the middle trying to get tackles in, covering the huge gaps left by Ramsey. It was a joke. The manager sent that team out there with nothing and during the game he gave them nothing either. You get a proper manager in there and suddenly we have a midfield, suddenly we can defend, suddenly we are taking care of the basics. But as it stands, of course you are going to get mistakes all over the place if the manager can't be arsed to do his job. Mistakes are one thing, but a lack of effort is simply unforgivable. Theo Walcott is a fucking disgrace, a thief. And Alexis will be heading down that road if he doesn't pull himself up sharpish. Only a complete fuck up like Wenger could ruin a player like Alexis and he's doing it. We MUST get this dinosaur out of the club before anything else can be fixed on the pitch. Pure complacency and a massive lack of ambition, that's what Wenger gives us. And nothing else.

You're making excuses for Gabriel and pointing out other players failing to do the basics when Gabriel simply had to clear the ball for that first goal. There isn't anything to think about tactically, he doesn't have to worry about the positioning of Ramsey or anyone else for that matter. It's just get to the ball first and clear it. It's that simple. If everyone does their own job properly, the goal is prevented but you can't keep banging on about Ramsey and Walcott but then make excuses for Gabriel. It's nonsense. When the ball bounces right in front of you but you fuck up the clearance, regardless of what happened for that scenario to occur, you've fucked up if you can't make a simple clearance. It's bullshit to point to anyone else on the pitch. A collection of errors happen in the lead up but each man has to take responsibility for their failures and not make excuses. That applies to Ramsey and Walcott. I'm not excusing their failings in the build up but it seems as though you are for Gabriel. Honestly, he is not good and if that were Merts playing, I can't see you making the same excuses. Sometimes you have to hold your hands up and say that wasn't good enough.

[Ralpheroo72]

We are a complete fucking embarrassment.

A big fucking profitable embarrassment.

The only composure shown today was by the United kids - to lose against this rabble andto make them look this good and turn OT rapturous with delight while coughing up the league to Leicester or Tottenham has to be the end of the line for Wenger.

It just HAS to be.

Every thing he has built up has now been destroyed. And in another characteristcally humiliating fashion.

100% agree with this. Only thing that went to plan was that we made money from the game, and it will be added to the huge pot of cash reserves. I'm done with this club until they make some big fucking changes. Supported them through thick and thin, think they give a fuck? Absolutely not!

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHA_PDC6mQ4&feature=youtu.be

:haha: :haha: :haha:

Soccer AM fanzone thing. BOOM!

[Niall_Quinn]

You're making excuses for Gabriel and pointing out other players failing to do the basics when Gabriel simply had to clear the ball for that first goal. There isn't anything to think about tactically, he doesn't have to worry about the positioning of Ramsey or anyone else for that matter. It's just get to the ball first and clear it. It's that simple. If everyone does their own job properly, the goal is prevented but you can't keep banging on about Ramsey and Walcott but then make excuses for Gabriel. It's nonsense. When the ball bounces right in front of you but you fuck up the clearance, regardless of what happened for that scenario to occur, you've fucked up if you can't make a simple clearance. It's bullshit to point to anyone else on the pitch. A collection of errors happen in the lead up but each man has to take responsibility for their failures and not make excuses. That applies to Ramsey and Walcott. I'm not excusing their failings in the build up but it seems as though you are for Gabriel. Honestly, he is not good and if that were Merts playing, I can't see you making the same excuses. Sometimes you have to hold your hands up and say that wasn't good enough.

No, it's the other way around. I already said Gabriel (and the rest of the back four) were full of mistakes today. So that's not an excuse. You're for Merts even though he's well past his sell by date and there's no future whatsoever having him near the team. So Mert's replacement is the target for your criticism. But Kos was just as poor as Gabriel today. Certainly, Gabriel should have cleared the ball. But how can you say if he just does his job and clear it then we don't concede but then try to airbrush the obvious fact that if Theo doesn't set the move up in the first place, through his sheer laziness, we also avoid conceding? It's a catalogue of shite, not just the last act. Anyway, I'm not for Gabriel, I'm for anyone bar Merts. The season's gone now so it's even more important to get somebody else in there, what do we have left to lose? Whether it is Gabriel or Chambers or anyone. I'm hoping (stupidly) for big changes next season and there's absolutely no way players like Mertesacker and Flamini can be part of that. Giroud either, in truth. And certainly not Walcott. We can't go forward with the second tier junk (comparatively at the top level) if we want to move on. And I'm not criticising Ramsey as a player, I'm saying the old fool in charge obviously feels it's fine for Ramsey to abandon his post and wander all over the place. There's no discipline. Nobody taking Ramsey to one side and telling him what his job is - or worse, some old fool taking him aside and actively helping him fuck things up. You only mentioned some of the players I criticised, the ones that help make the point you are trying to make.

[Power n Glory]

I'll take the most stable CB partnership over some obsession to bring in someone that is not up to scratch. If Merts was having a mare of a season, i'd understand the need for a change. Also, Kos is overrated. He only started playing well once Merts was in the side.

[Munchies]

Ramsey was utter shit today

get rid in the summer.

what is his best position? Shit in CM, shit as a winger. What does he do?

13/14 Ramsey is a long way away

[Niall_Quinn]

I'll take the most stable CB partnership over some obsession to bring in someone that is not up to scratch. If Merts was having a mare of a season, i'd understand the need for a change. Also, Kos is overrated. He only started playing well once Merts was in the side.

So you'd build the defence around Merts? You can't be serious. I'm not looking to scrap wins against Bournemouth. I remember the whole point of the stadium move. A world class venue to host a world class team that is competing at the top of the game. Now while Gabriel might not be suitable for that task, we don't know yet because he's been a bit player, it would be crazy to pretend Mertesacker fits the bill. Why would we settle for a player like that if we have any serious ambitions? So he hasn't had a mare of a season. Is that the standard now? He's slow, he slows the game down and he's an accident waiting to happen against any team with a bit of pace. We can do a hell of a lot better than him can't we? We can do better than plenty of other players in the squad too. It all depends what we want. Mediocrity or excellence.

[Munchies]

So you'd build the defence around Merts? You can't be serious. I'm not looking to scrap wins against Bournemouth. I remember the whole point of the stadium move. A world class venue to host a world class team that is competing at the top of the game. Now while Gabriel might not be suitable for that task, we don't know yet because he's been a bit player, it would be crazy to pretend Mertesacker fits the bill. Why would we settle for a player like that if we have any serious ambitions? So he hasn't had a mare of a season. Is that the standard now? He's slow, he slows the game down and he's an accident waiting to happen against any team with a bit of pace. We can do a hell of a lot better than him can't we? We can do better than plenty of other players in the squad too. It all depends what we want. Mediocrity or excellence.

:gp:

Having Mertesacker as a benchmark is a joke

[selassie]

Ramsey was utter shit today

get rid in the summer.

what is his best position? Shit in CM, shit as a winger. What does he do?

13/14 Ramsey is a long way away

He was lucky to stay on the field too. I'm done with him, he can't pass, can't tackle and can't finish, he offers this team nothing.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't mind Merts, he's far from perfect of course but I think he generally tends to work well with Kos. Easy to say with hindsight I know but we probably needed to keep the settled pairing for today, as it wasn't really the time to experiment. United didn't really have much to offer up front, they just profited from some dodgy defending. Their tails went up when they sensed the panic in our ranks.

We need better from everyone though, apart from Ozil and Cech not a single player has been worth a dime since Christmas. This time last year we were winning near enough every week, now we're in the title race and suddenly we can't buy a win. It's quite pathetic how textbook this all is, this club just can't deal with the pressure and expectation to achieve. Other teams thrive on it, we just bury ourselves in the sand and come out when it's over.

[Power n Glory]

So you'd build the defence around Merts? You can't be serious. I'm not looking to scrap wins against Bournemouth. I remember the whole point of the stadium move. A world class venue to host a world class team that is competing at the top of the game. Now while Gabriel might not be suitable for that task, we don't know yet because he's been a bit player, it would be crazy to pretend Mertesacker fits the bill. Why would we settle for a player like that if we have any serious ambitions? So he hasn't had a mare of a season. Is that the standard now? He's slow, he slows the game down and he's an accident waiting to happen against any team with a bit of pace. We can do a hell of a lot better than him can't we? We can do better than plenty of other players in the squad too. It all depends what we want. Mediocrity or excellence.

Terrible post. So after that shower of shite you'd start Gabriel with Kos again? I said nothing about building the defence around Merts, it just seems sensible to me to play the most in form and stable partnership until the season blows over. Now isn't the time to try and bed in a player looking out of form just because.

[Niall_Quinn]

Terrible post. So after that shower of shite you'd start Gabriel with Kos again? I said nothing about building the defence around Merts, it just seems sensible to me to play the most in form and stable partnership until the season blows over. Now isn't the time to try and bed in a player looking out of form just because.

Wrong way around again. Why go with the has-been snail until the end of the season? What then? Kick off the new season with a new partnership? Why? This season is done, the remaining games could be used to try to get something we could actually use next season into place. It should have been done months earlier. The shower of shite you refer to has been par for the course all season. There have been a handful of games where we've played well but that's it. Merts has made just as many mistakes as Gabriel and the former has had much more opportunity to sort his shit out. Mistakes aside (both are guilty and so is Kos), it's not difficult to see Gabriel is the more accomplished defender with a possible future at the club whereas the German is shot and has none. Admittedly, the turd chef Wenger has made his mark in much the same way as he stamped everything good out of Chambers, but that applies to every player at Arsenal and there's nothing that can be done about it while the old goat is here. Even if Merts was on par with Gabriel, the pace issue alone seals the deal.

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2015/2016/per_mertesacker/165/165/120/0/p|premier_league/2015/2016/laurent_koscielny/165/165/113/0/p|premier_league/2015/2016/gabriel_paulista/165/165/6467/0/p|premier_league/2015/2016/calum_chambers/165/165/742/31/p#total_score/attack_score/defence_score/pass_completion/tackles_won/interceptions/blocks/clearances/defensive_errors/errors_leading_to_goal#90

[Power n Glory]

So you'd play Gabriel again after that? Ok. I think you've lost the plot. It's not worth debating.

[Niall_Quinn]

So you'd play Gabriel again after that? Ok. I think you've lost the plot. It's not worth debating.

Why are you asking me that question again when I've already categorically answered it? It's a silly debating tactic, ignoring an answer to try and make an opponent appear evasive. Then I told you why I'd play him. Then I gave you the evidence supporting my claim he's twice the defender Mertesacker is. On that basis you claim I've lost the plot and you're terminating proceedings. Does that mean you think you've made your case? And if so, what exactly is your case? That Mertesacker should play because..? You say we're more solid defensively with Mertesacker in the team, I disagree. I think we are average defensively, at best, and need to improve considerably if we want to compete at the top level. To do that we need better players than Mertesacker. We don't have a world beater to put next to Kos right now but at least we have a player who's twice as good as Mertesacker. Because he didn't play well today, in common with most of the rest of the team, doesn't mean he can't be bedded into the team so he can find an understanding as part of a settled back four. And we should do that now we have some spare games at the end of another failed title bid. Or else we stick with a very sub-standard defender who can't possibly have a future at the club. The latter seems to be a foolish option, where's the benefit in it going forward? Ideally we'd be looking to bring some world class talent into the position in the summer but we all know Wenger's ideas on transfer windows and what is ideal.

[fakeyank]

To add to the above, i have to say Ramsey is a huge part of the problem.

We miss a player like Carzola immensely.

Ramsey just doesn't understand the role he has to do in the middle, he is like a energetic bunny, but without any kind of substance. Thats why Carzola is so vital, he does the simple things well and in general keeps our play ticking over.

I also don't understand why Campbell was suddenly dropped?? It baffles me why Wenger is not playing him when he was so useful, worked hard and scored/assisted.

We have some gaping problems, and no immediate solutions.....not sure what is in store next or what Wenger could do to the immediate problem or Ramsey.

Ramsey is pure shit! Despise the cunt.. #BringBackDenilson

[Marc Overmars]

I just read Walcott had 17 touches in the match. :haha:

I've defended him in the past but he is appalling right now.

Anonymous.

[fakeyank]

I just read Walcott had 17 touches in the match. :haha:

I've defended him in the past but he is appalling right now.

Anonymous.

Incredible. I thought he had 3... I take back my criticism.

[Power n Glory]

Why are you asking me that question again when I've already categorically answered it? It's a silly debating tactic, ignoring an answer to try and make an opponent appear evasive. Then I told you why I'd play him. Then I gave you the evidence supporting my claim he's twice the defender Mertesacker is. On that basis you claim I've lost the plot and you're terminating proceedings. Does that mean you think you've made your case? And if so, what exactly is your case? That Mertesacker should play because..? You say we're more solid defensively with Mertesacker in the team, I disagree. I think we are average defensively, at best, and need to improve considerably if we want to compete at the top level. To do that we need better players than Mertesacker. We don't have a world beater to put next to Kos right now but at least we have a player who's twice as good as Mertesacker. Because he didn't play well today, in common with most of the rest of the team, doesn't mean he can't be bedded into the team so he can find an understanding as part of a settled back four. And we should do that now we have some spare games at the end of another failed title bid. Or else we stick with a very sub-standard defender who can't possibly have a future at the club. The latter seems to be a foolish option, where's the benefit in it going forward? Ideally we'd be looking to bring some world class talent into the position in the summer but we all know Wenger's ideas on transfer windows and what is ideal.

There is no evidence if you're not looking at what just happened yesterday. It's pretty much a pointless debate because if you can't see how badly Gabriel played against a kid making his debut, I can't help you. Destroys any argument of Gabriel's pace being more important because that's exactly what he was brought in for, to stick with Rashford and it was embarrassing. I pretty much said everything that was needed in our last debate about these two. Can you imagine the score line if Gabriel was up against Neymar? If he can't handle Rashford you can forget him playing against better players but yet we constantly hear people bemoan Merts lack of pace and say he'd get ripped by Aguero, Neymar....etc...but I bet he'd keep Rashford quiet!

No idea why you keep banging on about needing better than Merts we can't do anything about it right now. That's a debate for the summer window. I'd have no problem with an improvement. I have no interest in trying to 'bed' in Gabriel....for what? That's the sort of thing I criticise Wenger for. I'd be a complete hypocrite to argue that. Stick with an under performing player when we're still in (just about)the title race? That's not smart. No idea how you can argue that either. We have a North London Derby coming up for goodness sakes! We can't take a risk like that again. What your saying isn't sensible and there is no way you can have a go at Wenger for sticking with players like Flamini, Walcott, Ramsey etc but argue we should stick with Gabriel after that performance. I don't care what the stats say. I'm going off what I just saw. I don't care if he gets his shit together and becomes the defender we all want him to be, I don't want to see him being picked over Merts or even Callum Chambers, for that matter, after that performance. He's day in the sun will have to wait.

[Power n Glory]

I just read Walcott had 17 touches in the match. :haha:

I've defended him in the past but he is appalling right now.

Anonymous.

An absolute waste of a player. 10 years of the development. Has to be the poster boy of Emirates failure. I've defended in him as well but I can't defend that performance. Overpaid, underperforming and showing zero signs of improvement. Wenger has got his development totally wrong and I don't know why we wasted so many years of him playing on the wing if this is how he's going to perform. I thought the whole point of him starting wide was to get him to be more of team player. He hasn't totally regressed on that part of his game and the dribbling is nonexistent. A massive disappointment and he should hold a bench for the rest of the season. If he can't handle that, we should move him on in the summer. Along with Ox and Ramsey, he's developed into a poor player with zero intelligence.

The states are worse. 6/9 passes. 3rd lowest just above behind Iwobi and Januzaj who played just over 10 minutes of football. 4 touches in the box. 0 shots. 0/1 take ons....it's a shocking performance. Heat map has him all over the place besides the box. I have no idea where he was supposed to be playing but regardless of instructions, that's an example of a player with zero intelligence. Along with Ox and Ramsey, he has no idea how to be effective and considering the years we've spent with him on the wing, it's embarrassing. How and why isn't he looking to make more of a contribution? Get more touches on the ball for goodness sake. Make more passes. He has to be benched for Campbell. Sub appearances. Maybe....not even sure if he'd contribute much there.

[Power n Glory]

Ramsey was utter shit today

get rid in the summer.

what is his best position? Shit in CM, shit as a winger. What does he do?

13/14 Ramsey is a long way away

I can't say much more with this guy. Zero intelligence. I think we should see what happens if we play Elneny in the middle with Coquelin. It can't be any worse than what we're getting from Ramsey. Well, it could....but what have we really got to lose? We can't really persist with someone offering nothing on attack or defensive cover. Ramsey is just a bad player. It doesn't matter who he's paired with. We need a different approach. We've badly missed a Cazorla and Rosicky this season. We need a new CM in the summer. For now, I think we need to get Ramsey out of there and tempted to say we should even try Ozil as CM.

[Munchies]

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlt1/v/t1.0-9/12799160_1892788357533354_5034365324784244882_n.jp g?oh=3535e182da43d0e5838549a5e9b8d137&oe=5754852E

[Munchies]

I can't say much more with this guy. Zero intelligence. I think we should see what happens if we play Elneny in the middle with Coquelin. It can't be any worse than what we're getting from Ramsey. Well, it could....but what have we really got to lose? We can't really persist with someone offering nothing on attack or defensive cover. Ramsey is just a bad player. It doesn't matter who he's paired with. We need a different approach. We've badly missed a Cazorla and Rosicky this season. We need a new CM in the summer. For now, I think we need to get Ramsey out of there and tempted to say we should even try Ozil as CM.

Sell him before the Euros, because he plays further forward for them and will be shown up even worse!

[selassie]

An absolute waste of a player. 10 years of the development. Has to be the poster boy of Emirates failure. I've defended in him as well but I can't defend that performance. Overpaid, underperforming and showing zero signs of improvement. Wenger has got his development totally wrong and I don't know why we wasted so many years of him playing on the wing if this is how he's going to perform. I thought the whole point of him starting wide was to get him to be more of team player. He hasn't totally regressed on that part of his game and the dribbling is nonexistent. A massive disappointment and he should hold a bench for the rest of the season. If he can't handle that, we should move him on in the summer. Along with Ox and Ramsey, he's developed into a poor player with zero intelligence.

The states are worse. 6/9 passes. 3rd lowest just above behind Iwobi and Januzaj who played just over 10 minutes of football. 4 touches in the box. 0 shots. 0/1 take ons....it's a shocking performance. Heat map has him all over the place besides the box. I have no idea where he was supposed to be playing but regardless of instructions, that's an example of a player with zero intelligence. Along with Ox and Ramsey, he has no idea how to be effective and considering the years we've spent with him on the wing, it's embarrassing. How and why isn't he looking to make more of a contribution? Get more touches on the ball for goodness sake. Make more passes. He has to be benched for Campbell. Sub appearances. Maybe....not even sure if he'd contribute much there.

Yeah I've given up with Theo too, I had been a staunch supporter of him up until this season and had defended because his numbers were fairly decent.

Theo is a waste of time now and if Wenger was a pragmatic manager he'd put him up for sale in the summer. I want him gone, seriously...if he's not scoring he brings nothing to the table, he's also been directly at fault for conceeding possession by stupid dribbling which led to us conceeding against Liverpool and yesterday against United.

I also agree that him, Ox and Ramsey have stagnated. Theo will be lucky to make the England Euro squad if he carries on this poor form, he doesn't deserve a place in the squad IMO.

[Dein-machine]

Finally a GW where certain Wengerites have finally seen the light - about 5 years too late.
For a guy called Le Prof, you would have thought the intelligent side of football would be a strong point for him. Henry, Bergkamp, Pires, Llundberg - all had a footballing brain - he has now created a team with Ozil surrounded by a bunch of retards. Even Sanchez makes more wrong decisions than right ones - Ramsey, Walcott, Giroud, Ox make the wrong decision 80% of the time - simply not good enough, never will be. Listening to his latest batch of excuses I really do worry if Wenget's brain is deteriorating
rapidly due to his age. Our problem is that we have an owner who wont understand that we played a Man Utd youth team yesterday, probably didnt know that we had a game, but is puffing on a cigar somehwhere because he's heard about how much money we're sitting on. Its all going well as far as hes concerned.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

But as you've explained yourself we have an owner who doesn't give a shit, so who cares if the fans sang from the same hymn sheet or not.
I've been fluidic on the Wenger in/Wenger out thing because he's here regardless of whether we want him or not

One intangible question is whether we will spend more money with a different manager, going by your description of Kroenke probably not.

As you say players like Ramsey and Walcott lack footballing intelligence

[Letters]

This could get me banned, but years ago when I posted as Ashburton, I said then that Wenger was passed it, well, I was bloody right! I will say it again, his early success came from inheriting the best back five this country has ever seen! Wenger out.....please!!!

Well, that's bullshit.
His early success came about because his training methods and knowledge of the European game were light years ahead of other teams.
The Invincibles team was pretty much entirely his own.
Football has moved on, other teams have caught up and overtaken us in some of those regards. He's been a safe pair of hands while we were moving stadium and did well to keep us in the top 4, the two Cup wins will help his legacy but his time is up now.
But let's not rewrite history and pretend he wasn't a very, very good manager back in the day.

[Power n Glory]

Well, that's bullshit.
His early success came about because his training methods and knowledge of the European game were light years ahead of other teams.
The Invincibles team was pretty much entirely his own.
Football has moved on, other teams have caught up and overtaken us in some of those regards. He's been a safe pair of hands while we were moving stadium and did well to keep us in the top 4, the two Cup wins will help his legacy but his time is up now.
But let's not rewrite history and pretend he wasn't a very, very good manager back in the day.

The Invincible squad learned a lot from Adams and co. The mentality on the pitch certainly came from that crop.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It helped no doubt, but it would be ridiculous to state that any manager would have been able to compile that team and go a whole season unbeaten with it.

The same Adams mentality had seen the team in mid table in 1995, if you want to be that forensic

I broadly agree with Letters on this, there is no sense in historical revisionism because we are annoyed with the guy for his failings. We know he's not the guy to take us forward, but trying to claim we shouldn't be appreciative for what he has done for the club is ridiculous.

[Marc Overmars]

The Invincible squad learned a lot from Adams and co. The mentality on the pitch certainly came from that crop.

Most of our current lot are only winners in their own heads. The reality is they don't know what it takes, it's absolutely inexcusable to look so far off the boil when now is the time we should be hitting top gear. Though I suppose it's hard to compete with the oil money at Leicester and Spurs.

[Power n Glory]

It helped no doubt, but it would be ridiculous to state that any manager would have been able to compile that team and go a whole season unbeaten with it.

The same Adams mentality had seen the team in mid table in 1995, if you want to be that forensic

I broadly agree with Letters on this, there is no sense in historical revisionism because we are annoyed with the guy for his failings. We know he's not the guy to take us forward, but trying to claim we shouldn't be appreciative for what he has done for the club is ridiculous.

That would be a ridiculous claim. But as you said yesterday in the match thread, the player's mentality just wasn't right yesterday. If they take some of the blame then they can also share the glory. We haven't come close to having that sort of winning mentality under Wenger since. It's hard to ignore. Souness was ripping into that team yesterday about the poor attitude but he's said that before about other Arsenal teams. This is totally different squad from the kids we were playing. Same hallmarks each year. I can't reproduce that fighting attitude but we constantly see these spinless, jellyback performances in each side he's create since that team died. Since Vieira left.

[Letters]

The Invincible squad learned a lot from Adams and co. The mentality on the pitch certainly came from that crop.

I guess that's true. But let's not get all revisionist and argue that Wenger just got lucky and inherited a good squad back in the day, he did far more than that to create that period of success.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think we do see that hunger and winning mentality but far too sporadically

Yesterday was a case that we knew United were missing key players and we didn't think we'd need to put in a shift, and unfortunately you have to work hard in every game.


I can think of three games this season where we have shown a consistent mentality of hard work, guile and talent

United at home, Bayern Munich at home and Man City at home

Barcelona we turned up but we lost our heads, it seems really that only in a handful of games do we actually bother to play like a team.

Even at 2-0 down yesterday we should have won, but didn't seem to want to make the effort.

[Letters]

And this is where you can't just blame Wenger. Yes, he's the manager and the buck stops with him but where is the players' pride? Why wouldn't they want to win the title? It's there for the taking, just do your jobs and it's yours.

[LDG]

Utter disgrace the lot of em.

Nothing more to say really.

[Power n Glory]

I think we do see that hunger and winning mentality but far too sporadically

Yesterday was a case that we knew United were missing key players and we didn't think we'd need to put in a shift, and unfortunately you have to work hard in every game.


I can think of three games this season where we have shown a consistent mentality of hard work, guile and talent

United at home, Bayern Munich at home and Man City at home

Barcelona we turned up but we lost our heads, it seems really that only in a handful of games do we actually bother to play like a team.

Even at 2-0 down yesterday we should have won, but didn't seem to want to make the effort.

Every team has a handful of games where they have that hunger.

[Niall_Quinn]

It helped no doubt, but it would be ridiculous to state that any manager would have been able to compile that team and go a whole season unbeaten with it.

The same Adams mentality had seen the team in mid table in 1995, if you want to be that forensic

I broadly agree with Letters on this, there is no sense in historical revisionism because we are annoyed with the guy for his failings. We know he's not the guy to take us forward, but trying to claim we shouldn't be appreciative for what he has done for the club is ridiculous.

The early Wenger years will stand the test of time. Best football I ever saw and I include Brazil and any doped up Barcelona team you want to throw into the mix. He set standards that really could never be maintained.

However, the later years. Those are a road crash and he'll be remembered as the manager who faded into nothing and hung on for too long. Taking the team full circle in the process even though the club has grown to a whole new level.

[Niall_Quinn]

There is no evidence if you're not looking at what just happened yesterday. It's pretty much a pointless debate because if you can't see how badly Gabriel played against a kid making his debut, I can't help you. Destroys any argument of Gabriel's pace being more important because that's exactly what he was brought in for, to stick with Rashford and it was embarrassing. I pretty much said everything that was needed in our last debate about these two. Can you imagine the score line if Gabriel was up against Neymar? If he can't handle Rashford you can forget him playing against better players but yet we constantly hear people bemoan Merts lack of pace and say he'd get ripped by Aguero, Neymar....etc...but I bet he'd keep Rashford quiet!

No idea why you keep banging on about needing better than Merts we can't do anything about it right now. That's a debate for the summer window. I'd have no problem with an improvement. I have no interest in trying to 'bed' in Gabriel....for what? That's the sort of thing I criticise Wenger for. I'd be a complete hypocrite to argue that. Stick with an under performing player when we're still in (just about)the title race? That's not smart. No idea how you can argue that either. We have a North London Derby coming up for goodness sakes! We can't take a risk like that again. What your saying isn't sensible and there is no way you can have a go at Wenger for sticking with players like Flamini, Walcott, Ramsey etc but argue we should stick with Gabriel after that performance. I don't care what the stats say. I'm going off what I just saw. I don't care if he gets his shit together and becomes the defender we all want him to be, I don't want to see him being picked over Merts or even Callum Chambers, for that matter, after that performance. He's day in the sun will have to wait.

Well there is evidence, if you don't JUST look at what happened yesterday. The evidence shows that Merts is our worst defender by a distance. The stats won't tell you everything, I accept that, but when the margins are so wide then they certainly tell you something. Just like the stats telling us something about Theo Walcott's performance yesterday. I believe we'll do better over the next 10 games with Gabriel rather than Mets. You believe the opposite, fair enough. But the numbers favour my assessment and while they are not the definitive measurement at least they consider more than a single match. Plus we get the added bonus of finding out if we should be sticking with Gabriel into next season or hitting the transfer market. I view it as inconceivable we'd stick with Mertesacker, for the reasons previously given. I'm approaching this logically, the alternative is the Wenger way. Chuck them out there, see what happens, have no plan B if/ invariably when it all goes tits up.

[Power n Glory]

Well there is evidence, if you don't JUST look at what happened yesterday. The evidence shows that Merts is our worst defender by a distance. The stats won't tell you everything, I accept that, but when the margins are so wide then they certainly tell you something. Just like the stats telling us something about Theo Walcott's performance yesterday. I believe we'll do better over the next 10 games with Gabriel rather than Mets. You believe the opposite, fair enough. But the numbers favour my assessment and while they are not the definitive measurement at least they consider more than a single match. Plus we get the added bonus of finding out if we should be sticking with Gabriel into next season or hitting the transfer market. I view it as inconceivable we'd stick with Mertesacker, for the reasons previously given. I'm approaching this logically, the alternative is the Wenger way. Chuck them out there, see what happens, have no plan B if/ invariably when it all goes tits up.

:lol: Is the Wenger way the stats? You have got to be kidding.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The problem seems to me to be persisting with Mertesacker and then shoving in a rusty Gabriel and then bench him again when his positioning is poor and actually needs you know game time.

This has been a long running issue, I remember going to watch us last season at the Emirates when down to our bare bones we paired Mertesacker with Monreal, and actually Monreal was the one who looked more disciplined and controlled and Mertesacker was ponderous.

Gabriel and Koscielny could be an excellent central defensive partnership but it's one that should have been deployed at the beginning of the season, Mertesacker is still capable of good games but he's far too slow and for someone so tall he gets taken advantage of too often aerially.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think we do see that hunger and winning mentality but far too sporadically

Yesterday was a case that we knew United were missing key players and we didn't think we'd need to put in a shift, and unfortunately you have to work hard in every game.


I can think of three games this season where we have shown a consistent mentality of hard work, guile and talent

United at home, Bayern Munich at home and Man City at home

Barcelona we turned up but we lost our heads, it seems really that only in a handful of games do we actually bother to play like a team.

Even at 2-0 down yesterday we should have won, but didn't seem to want to make the effort.

It reeks of Wenger. If we can mentally turn up to one game but not the next then what conclusions can we draw? we can say the players are at least capable of approaching certain games in the correct frame of mind. So they don't lack that capability. Then we need to determine whose job it is to prepare the team, mentally, physically and technically before they step onto the pitch. This is where Wenger is so dishonest. He'll say the team lacked this, or the team lacked that. He's been saying it for years. Different teams, different players, countless permutations. Can every player he's brought in over the last 10 years lack the mental strength to challenge for honours? Did Ozil lack that strength at Madrid? Did Cech lack it in chavland? Do the players lack mental strength when they go on International duty, and if so why are they selected? Isn't it high time Wenger admitted that HE lacks the mental strength to challenge for the big prizes? Because that's what his record in the PL and CL clearly demonstrates over the past decade. Or has he really just been unlucky year after year? He's blaming other teams for tapping his players up now, although that excuse was only good for one game as it turned out. I see a man who has nothing left personally, in charge of a shit load of resources making a ton of excuses about why he can't deliver what he has been paid to deliver. Although it could also be said he's delivering exactly what he's paid for - profits for the few and fuck the football provided we don't drop below a minimum standard. In the latter case that would make him a liar.

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol: Is the Wenger way the stats? You have got to be kidding.

Well I'm talking about more blocks, more tackles, more interceptions, more of the attributes that make a defender. Twice as many in fact. I'm not talking about broccoli heads consumed per minute or red lines in a squad that's always ravaged by injury regardless. TWICE as many, not just a slight deviation. But you are trying to discredit the performances based on mistakes made in the last match. And by doing that you are trying to bypass my reasoning we should go with the defender the is not only better suited to this league but demonstrably offers more. It's a spirited defence of Mertesacker but there aren't many people buying the idea he's a top defender any more.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Oh I agree it's his fault for letting this mentality fester, and what he said yesterday even before the game was just a joke about our title challenges coming unstuck because the players were being tapped up.

Shocking abrogation of his responsibilities

[Niall_Quinn]

The problem seems to me to be persisting with Mertesacker and then shoving in a rusty Gabriel and then bench him again when his positioning is poor and actually needs you know game time.

This has been a long running issue, I remember going to watch us last season at the Emirates when down to our bare bones we paired Mertesacker with Monreal, and actually Monreal was the one who looked more disciplined and controlled and Mertesacker was ponderous.

Gabriel and Koscielny could be an excellent central defensive partnership but it's one that should have been deployed at the beginning of the season, Mertesacker is still capable of good games but he's far too slow and for someone so tall he gets taken advantage of too often aerially.

This is true. It goes deeper than who should be playing the next match. It goes back to why we bought these players in the first place, what were we trying to achieve in the long term, what has been the defensive strategy (if we have one). Bothe Chambers and Gabriel looked decent players when they arrived. I can understand why Wenger stuck with Mertesacker in a season where we should have been challenging for a title. But in hindsight, which doesn't count, we'd have been better off getting one of the younger, better defenders bedded in and using Merts as a backup. So now I'm saying we don't need hindsight. We're out of this title hunt and have 10 games to do some prep work for next season without jeopardising our Top 4 Trophy. Might as well do it, unless we intend to go into next season with Mertesacker starting. In which case, shoot me now.

[selassie]

Good read from Arseblog, saying pretty much what we're all saying on here...http://arseblog.com/2016/02/man-utd-3-2-arsenal-chokers-gonna-choke/


Arsenal went to Old Trafford yesterday seeking a win to cement their title credentials – instead they came away with exactly what they deserved, nothing, and cemented their reputation as chokers. Let’s not beat around the bush here, yesterday’s defeat against an injury ravaged United side, playing a kid up front in only his second senior game, was a bottle job of epic proportions.

I take nothing away from Marcus Rashford, by the way. Two goals and an assist is a fantastic days work for a young player, and credit to him for that. But like we do with so many goalkeepers, we really played a significant part in the success of his day and the quality of his performance.

Having started reasonably brightly, and created a fantastic chance for Nacho Monreal which he missed/de Gea saved, we settled into that familiar first half routine of slow, safe, unadventurous passing with little or no endeavour. There was a moment when Aaron Ramsey had the ball deep in their half on the left hand side, he looked for some movement, there was none. He looked again, there was none, and he went all the way backwards.

We were static and staid. Having picked a rather swashbuckling attacking trio with Theo Walcott up front and Danny Welbeck on the right hand side, with their right back booked after just 9 minutes, and the left back only back after a lengthy injury absence, it was all set up for us to really have a go at them. That we didn’t is obvious, that we couldn’t is the real worry. Whether it was the pressure on the day or something else I don’t know, but we hardly caused them any problems at all.

Walcott was nigh on invisible, and I wish he’d stayed that way because when he did get involved it was another of his feeble attempts to dribble the ball out of defence. He lost it, stood watching as United spread it wide, crossed it into the box, Gabriel’s attempt to clear saw the ball fall perfectly for Rashford who probably couldn’t believe his luck as he smashed it home from close range.

The Brazilian, preferred to Per Mertesacker after what happened on Tuesday, made a very good case for the BFG’s immediate reinstatement with a piece of ghastly defending for their second. The cross was hopeful more than anything, but it’s a forward’s dream when the centre-half who can see him clearly simply doesn’t bother to mark him properly, and Rashford nodded home from close range. That Gabriel then turned to Koscielny to blame him only compounded his stupidity.

We needed one back before half-time, and the Mesut Ozil – Danny Welbeck combination that worked at Leicester provided that goal, a very tidy header from a free kick beat de Gea at his near post, and you hoped that would be the spark Arsenal needed for the second period. Just before the break it looked as if we should have had a penalty when Rashford clearly moved his arm towards the ball, but the officials didn’t spot it.

While we had more of the ball in the second half, it was more of the same. We were meek up front, and got absolutely nothing from Walcott. That he managed an hour of the game before being hooked for Giroud is, with hindsight, astonishing. Not that the Frenchman served much better, and when the midfield disappeared – Coquelin and Ramsey nowhere – Rashford set up a Herrara for a shot which deflected off Koscielny to make it 3-1 to United.

Bellerin had to be alert to prevent them going 4-1 up, before Ozil got it back to 3-2 in the 69th minute. Not his finest finish, but it bobbled up and into the top corner. 21 minutes of normal time to go, and there were 5 minutes of added time. That’s 26 minutes of football. 26 minutes to get something from the game. 26 minutes to pile on the pressure. 26 minutes to get a goal, or the goals, that might save your season and your title challenge.

In those 26 minutes we had 2 attempts on goal, only one of them was on target, and that was feeble Koscielny header that any of us could have saved. 26 minutes of Premier League football, from a team supposedly trying to win the title, and that’s all we could come up with against two midfielders at centre-half, and a kid at left-back who came on for the injured bloke. That’s very bad.

With 10 minutes of the game remaining, Arsene Wenger made his final change, throwing on Alex Iwobi for Danny Welbeck. I like Iwobi, I think he’s a fine young prospect with plenty of potential, but what exactly was it that made the manager think he’d be more likely to get us a goal than Joel Campbell, a player who has scored this season and whose experience made him a much more obvious choice? Iwobi never got into the game in any significant way, he found it hard going. Maybe Campbell would have too, but it seemed an odd decision all the same.

At no point did I have any confidence that we’d get even an equaliser, let alone goals to win it, and for a team that is reportedly a title challenger, that’s poor. And I say reportedly, because while we’re still there or thereabouts, we’re not playing like a team that seems capable of winning the title, and we haven’t been for some time.

I’m always wary of dealing in intangibles, like ‘desire’ and ‘wanting it’, but that looked like a team that could have given more yesterday. They froze, nobody took responsibility. Certainly those players should be capable of better than that, but when push came to shove, too many of them couldn’t cope with the pressure. It’s very difficult to argue with what Graeme Souness says here:


I don’t buy into this ‘narrative’ that this is the best chance we’ll ever have to win the title, but you cannot look at a Premier League where our main rivals for the league are Leicester and Sp*rs, and not see it as a massive opportunity. Yet rather than be decisive and stake a real claim for the top prize, we’re cracking under the pressure and yesterday’s result against that United side is cast-iron evidence of that.

The first two goals were our own fault, as were the two goals against Barcelona the other night. That’s not down to anything other than lack of concentration and application and, perhaps speaks to the quality of some of the players. The manager made changes yesterday to try and spark his team back into life. They didn’t really work.

While I understood the decision to start Walcott, can we step back a bit and look at the bigger picture. The issue isn’t the selection of Walcott, but that Walcott is the player we have to select. A footballer whose bland, featureless mediocrity is exactly why we can’t win titles. Don’t win? Doesn’t matter. There’s a clean-cut image and a £140,000 wage packet to take home at the end of the week.


That’s not on Walcott though. He is what he is and we’ve known what he is for a long time now. A player who just once in 10 years at this club has hit double figures in goals, and who has had a handful of decent games up front when the manager had little choice but to use to him. A manager who is more and more, it seems, making it up as he goes along.

Coquelin is another example, again this was a desperation decision that turned out pretty well, not some master-plan. And as much as I like him and the way he took his chance, the Arsenal midfield is an area that requires some serious surgery this summer. It needs it now, in fairness, but there’s not a lot we can do at this point.

Is that performance and result yesterday one hewn from the image of Arsene Wenger? It looks more and more like it the more I think about it. Arsenal should have gone to Old Trafford yesterday and made a statement – but what they did was simply reinforce the doubts that even the most optimistic can’t fully shake off. They’re always there under the surface, this knowledge that somehow, some way, we’ll find a new way to make ourselves look like under-achievers, and that was exactly what happened yesterday.

It will now take something of a miracle to win this title. I can’t see it happening. Obviously, OBVIOUSLY, I hope it happens, but realistically I don’t believe it will. I don’t believe a team that plays like that yesterday can be champions, and I don’t think a manager who presides over a performance like that can guide this team to the top of the table at the end of May.

It then raises the question as to what happens if we don’t win this title. What should happen, I think, is that Arsenal Football Club look at this underachievement this season and make a decision that this inability to challenge – especially now that the financial shackles are off – is repetitive and chronic, and find a new man to take charge.

I say that, by the way, as somebody who likes and respects Arsene Wenger a great deal, and can’t abide the abuse, but if he can’t win the title this year, I don’t think he can win it again. Making that decision won’t be easy, in fact I think it could be the start of a hugely tumultuous period for the club, as we’ve seen elsewhere when the legacy manager finally makes way.

That’s what should happen, but what will happen is a very different thing. What will happen is nothing. The board will back the manager and he might spend big this summer and go again next season. Maybe that will be better, who knows at this point? But that’s the culture of the football club, and to an extent I think we saw that reflected in yesterday’s performance.

11 games to go. Arsenal and Arsene Wenger need a miracle. Or, to put it another way, they need to play better football, to score goals, and win games. But they needed to do that yesterday and came up short. What makes us think that it will be any different in the next game, or for the North London derby against a Sp*rs side who look more likely to win this title than we do?

Think on that. It’s unpleasant. As was that shambles yesterday. That’s where we are, and I don’t like it one bit.

[Bumble]

I guess that's true. But let's not get all revisionist and argue that Wenger just got lucky and inherited a good squad back in the day, he did far more than that to create that period of success.

Wenger was lucky to be the point that he had great knowledge of the French league when the French team were the best in the world. and he joined a team where the spine of the side was pretty good and he was able to focus on the attacking side of the game which is his strength.

I think a big worry is that we aren't having any players really come through the academy anymore. Iwobi is getting a bit of game time but no one else, for a manager who gives youth a chance this seems a bigger problem. As we saw yesterday throw a couple of youngsters in and you get a bit of energy and desire (although obviously Van Gaal got lucky in a way with injuries) look at how Bellerin has come in and done well. need more like that.

I have always defended Walcott but if he doesn't score, he is useless and he seems to be getting worse. The Ox I still like and will give him one more season as he is still early 20s. Ramsey he is more a goalscoring midfielder than a deep lying midfielder but he doesn't really fit into the way we are organised. So it is a difficult decision on him but again I would stick with him.

Sanchez is really struggling and perhaps that is why Barca got rid as its not like had they kept him he wouldn't get game time either coming off the bench or rotating with Suarez or Neymar. As the Barca bench didn't have much to it.

The league is still open though, beat Swansea and beat Spurs and you never know. I do think City will take a lot of confidence from the Capital One Cup win and getting through in Europe so they might go on a run. As I have said before Wenger must be hoping City win the league, if not us, as the excuse is there. Leicester or Spurs win and oh dear oh dear oh dear.

[I am invisible]

I think... that's me done.

As any kind of serious football fan anyway. At this point I honestly can't think of one single thing that I enjoy about following the game or my club? Not one.

[Letters]

I think... that's me done.

As any kind of serious football fan anyway. At this point I honestly can't think of one single thing that I enjoy about following the game or my club? Not one.

Did you not enjoy the moment vs Leicester last Sunday? Isn't it these sorts of highs and lows the game is about and you can't have one without the other.

[Niall_Quinn]

Did you not enjoy the moment vs Leicester last Sunday? Isn't it these sorts of highs and lows the game is about and you can't have one without the other.

You enjoy it right up until the point you realise it was bait and you got hooked. Again.

[Letters]

That's football for you though :shrug:

[Globalgunner]

A few of us were railing at the incompetence of Wenger more than 5 years ago. Im frankly shocked that its taken people this long to see the obvious shortcomings of Wenger as a manager. He does not have it in him to be a top class manager, Maybe he never did. His early sucesses were built on the inheritance of Graham coupled with an innate knowledge of the French market to deliver the initial success. Yes he was revolutionary 15 years ago, but he forgot that he was an employee when Dein left and he filled 2 roles as DOF and manager. He became his own boss and ego made him no longer subject to the normal expectations of other managers.
It takes a team of at least 8 world class players to overcome hius deficiencies, and that only comes about if they ignore his instructions and play to the routine they were taught at national level. It is no coincidence that our best team was almost all French. Wenger never taught Pires, Henry Vieira, Bergkamp how to play. they played the game by themselves. Players of iron will and determination that wanted to win because it was in them.
Soon as that team got dismantled in 2006 and he started making the team in his own image, we lost what made us successful. We became the effeminate shambles that you see today, shot shy and directionless. easy to dominate even by bottom tier clubs. He always had 2 or 3 world class players that kept us hovering in the top 4. But like I said, 2 or 3 world class players is not enough, 8 minimum, with 6 or 7 solid players to fit in around them. What we have now is 7 okay players and about the same number of real useless crap like Arteta, Walcott, Flamini and Mertesacker with 3 world class players drafted in to keep the punters dreaming. It a scam and a sham.
Sad part is we could make top 4 again this season, and Wenger will start parroting his dreams of domination next summer again.

[Power n Glory]

I think... that's me done.

As any kind of serious football fan anyway. At this point I honestly can't think of one single thing that I enjoy about following the game or my club? Not one.

I know how you feel. Unless we change managers next season, I can't see myself following next year.

[Niall_Quinn]

I know how you feel. Unless we change managers next season, I can't see myself following next year.

Yes you will, I'll bet you now. That's because Arsenal is bigger than Wenger and has a longer history than Wenger and will still be here when Wenger has gone. Right up until the moment Kroenke moves us to LA.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Yes you will, I'll bet you now. That's because Arsenal is bigger than Wenger and has a longer history than Wenger and will still be here when Wenger has gone. Right up until the moment Kroenke moves us to LA.

I agree, there are so many times where I promise myself I'll turn my back on this club but it doesn't happen. Because your football club is like a child, often disappoints you and causes you sleepless nights but you love it even though at times you wish you didn't.

[selassie]

I agree, there are so many times where I promise myself I'll turn my back on this club but it doesn't happen. Because your football club is like a child, often disappoints you and causes you sleepless nights but you love it even though at times you wish you didn't.

Aye, I was that pissed off yesterday after watching the debacle I even posted a comment that I wouldn't bother watching the game against Spurs next Saturday.

I know it's not true, I'll put myself through further frustration and torture watching us make a mess of the NLD on Saturday.

The joys of being an Arsenal fan eh?

[JaneEmily]

Aye, I was that pissed off yesterday after watching the debacle I even posted a comment that I wouldn't bother watching the game against Spurs next Saturday.

I know it's not true, I'll put myself through further frustration and torture watching us make a mess of the NLD on Saturday.

The joys of being an Arsenal fans eh?

Football is the drug that keeps us abusing our sanity.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Football is the drug that keeps us abusing our sanity.

It doesn't bother me, you can't lose what you never had is how I see it

[I am invisible]

Did you not enjoy the moment vs Leicester last Sunday? Isn't it these sorts of highs and lows the game is about and you can't have one without the other.

Honestly mate... I didn't watch it. Checked the scores well after it was all over, so the moment was lost on me. Doesn't sound like it would have done my blood pressure any favours though!

[Dein-machine]

Did you not enjoy the moment vs Leicester last Sunday? Isn't it these sorts of highs and lows the game is about and you can't have one without the other.

I think it was more relief than enjoyment. The fact that we are having to score last minute winners against Leicester City is not something any Arsenal fan should suggest is enjoyment - not 10 years on from a stadium move that was supposed to make us a European giant. The problem is results like that, paper over the cracks that the bumbling old fool has created. The same will happen next week if we pub a win at Spurs. "Its back on" "Walcott double proves hes a world beater" "Giroud winner puts him level on goals as Aguero" - the same old, same old shit that we get from delusional Gooners & brain dead journo's after a win. Forget sneaking wins against 10 men Leicester , not being able or clever enough to break down the might of Hull or getting beat by Utd U21's - the plain & simple fact that we ALL see with our own eyes every week is a shit system of play where we take forever to get the ball forward & when we do it end up at the feet of a brain dead footballer who 80% of the time will make the wrong decision. That is the reality of what Wenger is serving up now, he has no idea how to break teams down, how long have we played against teams that park the bus & yet he plays 2 DM's therfore reducing our forward options and ability to open up tight defences. Its so obvious its comical - its stuff under 12 managers can see & put right within minutes of seeing it. Wenger didnt even change our formation at home to Hull at half time when it was obvious our CB's needed no assistance whatsoever.
Wenger is holding this club back 100% - its criminal that the powers that be cant see it.

[AFC Leveller]

They defended well and made many fouls in the middle of the park that stopped our flow. I think that’s a little problem in the modern game


This guy has lost it completely this time.

[Niall_Quinn]

They defended well and made many fouls in the middle of the park that stopped our flow. I think that’s a little problem in the modern game


This guy has lost it completely this time.

Also the away goals rule needs to be changed. I think if we can get that changed and the refs get on board with some of the deliberate defending that is becoming common in the modern game, if we can factor in keepers sometimes opting to save our shots, we can make the mental adjustment and be right back in this title chase. Provided nobody tries to tap up our players and Leicester don't unfairly overspend redecorating their changing rooms, I think for the normal fan who hasn't made 20,000 substitutions and should really just fuck off and support the spuds if they don't like it, these major issues can seem less important than what happens on the pitch. It's also the 29th Feb today, very unlucky we should have to play such a major game a day before the extra day in a leap year. Did it affect the result, who can say? But even though it certainly did, we have to bounce back and come out stronger for our next game. We shouldn't overreact, it's not as like any of this has happened before - we need to cope with these new experiences with togetherness and great spirit.

[fakeyank]

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/15205/10186292/paul-merson-arsenal-must-axe-arsene-wenger-if-leicester-or-tottenham-win-title

Merson just hit the first nail on the coffin. Hope more journos pick this up and pile the pressure on Wenger. That man is running out of excuses.. time to go!! :wave:

[Power n Glory]

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/michael-cox-arsenal-lacked-central-midfielder-guile-old-trafford#:SBaEa9i4uQaq2A

Someone may have wised up to how badly we miss Cazorla and the problem we have in midfield but I'm not sure why he's focused on Coquelin if we miss Cazorla. :unsure:

Been saying this for donkeys, Ramsey is a serious problem in the midfield. Even when playing with Arteta and he had Wilshere alongside, it was a similar shower of shit. Going back further where he was getting booed by the fans, our midfield lacked fluency and it took Rosicky to replace him for us to find our fluency. It's always been the case that our CB's are having make a lot of passes. He doesn't track back to work the ball from deep. He's brain dead and I don't know why nobody has taken him to task on it. It's a reoccurring pattern.

[mastermind84]

Cazorla does not have guile either (lots of craft tho)

Central Midfield is a huge problem.

But we have created oodles of chances and have not scored. I think our attack is just as big a problem. Theo only getting 17 touches in 63 minutes was embarrassing and this may see his time at the club ending shortly.

This summer a CM must be targeted along with some goal scoring attackers.

Also, we are counting down the days on Ozil. He wont be here for much longer if he has to play with this shower.


But if Wenger is going to continue playing with 2 CMs in this 4231 and have them sitting deep, then Ramsey needs to be sold. He only works in a 3 man midfield.

[fakeyank]

I dont understand why Elneny isnt being played with Coquelin while Santi is out. Not that Elneny has done anything to suggest he can fill Santi's big boots, but he at least has discipline. He doesnt go hollywood at the first opportunity.

I despise seeing Ramsey play currently... too much of BS tricks and holding onto the ball when making the simple pass is the obvious (and better) choice. Too many runs forward without a care about your midfield partner. While his mentality to be selfish may be condemned, these are exactly the sort of things Wenger and Bould needs to give him a bollocking for. Tell him to cut the BS out or sit on the bench. See how things change!

[Power n Glory]

It's really pointless discussing this. With the exception of Giroud and maybe Merts starting, we'll see the same set up for our next game. Wenger was happy with the 'spirit' of our performance and puts it all down to defensive errors. He doesn't see a problem with the way we're playing otherwise he'd have tried something new months ago.

[GP]

Merson just hit the first nail on the coffin.

Hmm

[Munchies]

It's really pointless discussing this. With the exception of Giroud and maybe Merts starting, we'll see the same set up for our next game. Wenger was happy with the 'spirit' of our performance and puts it all down to defensive errors. He doesn't see a problem with the way we're playing otherwise he'd have tried something new months ago.

:gp:

He'll stick with it because he can't see where the problem areas are in the team.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yes you will, I'll bet you now. That's because Arsenal is bigger than Wenger and has a longer history than Wenger and will still be here when Wenger has gone. Right up until the moment Kroenke moves us to LA.

TBF a warm night in February sounds appealing.

[GP]

TBF a warm night in February sounds appealing.

You hit the nail on the coffin.

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/15205/10186292/paul-merson-arsenal-must-axe-arsene-wenger-if-leicester-or-tottenham-win-title

Merson just hit the first nail on the coffin. Hope more journos pick this up and pile the pressure on Wenger. That man is running out of excuses.. time to go!! :wave:

Not disagreeng, but the part in bold really cracked me up.



Paul Merson

Football Expert & Columnist @PaulMerse

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/michael-cox-arsenal-lacked-central-midfielder-guile-old-trafford#:SBaEa9i4uQaq2A

Someone may have wised up to how badly we miss Cazorla and the problem we have in midfield but I'm not sure why he's focused on Coquelin if we miss Cazorla. :unsure:

Been saying this for donkeys, Ramsey is a serious problem in the midfield. Even when playing with Arteta and he had Wilshere alongside, it was a similar shower of shit. Going back further where he was getting booed by the fans, our midfield lacked fluency and it took Rosicky to replace him for us to find our fluency. It's always been the case that our CB's are having make a lot of passes. He doesn't track back to work the ball from deep. He's brain dead and I don't know why nobody has taken him to task on it. It's a reoccurring pattern.

Yes, a recurring pattern and a recurring problem so one of 3 possibilities. First, Wenger wants Ramsey to abandon ship to add to the attacking threat. Second, Wenger sees it happening but can't get Ramsey to follow instructions. Three, Wenger doesn't see it happening. The first option is more likely. Wenger has already said he likes to pressure opponents while relieving the threat to our own defence by keeping possession in the opposition half. So for me, Ramsey's lack of discipline is actually Ramsey following instructions. This is reinforced by the recklessness of Flamini positionally when he plays. Ramsey would be dropped if he was defying Wenger and if Wenger can't see it happening at all the we're in deeper shit than we thought.

Conclusion. It's the football management equivalent of the Emperor's New Clothes but nobody with a voice has piped up yet.

[rodders]

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/15205/10186292/paul-merson-arsenal-must-axe-arsene-wenger-if-leicester-or-tottenham-win-title

Merson just hit the first nail on the coffin. Hope more journos pick this up and pile the pressure on Wenger. That man is running out of excuses.. time to go!! :wave:

So did Souness

[Kano]

At the start of 2015 we had found a team that worked. Unexpectedly Wenger put Cazorla next to Coquelin and Ramsey out on the right. It reinvigorated Santi's game after it had become a bit stale as the years caught up with him on the wing. Ramsey's work ethic allowed Bellerin to get forward and also meant he could come inside to create an extra man in midfield. Aaron was still finding runs into the box but his finishing had deserted him.

Since losing Cazorla Wenger hasn't managed to find that same balance in the team. Ramsey in the middle just isn't working. Elneny or even Iwobi deserve a shot there, the latter showing excellent distribution when played in the number 10 role so far. Theo is only a sub, nothing more. Campbell needs to get back onto the pitch if Ramsey is not going to be put out wide and get Alexis into the middle to see if that shakes up his form. Welbeck we have to be careful with because he's been out for quite a while but going by recent performances he should be on the pitch starting.

[mastermind84]

Yes, a recurring pattern and a recurring problem so one of 3 possibilities. First, Wenger wants Ramsey to abandon ship to add to the attacking threat. Second, Wenger sees it happening but can't get Ramsey to follow instructions. Three, Wenger doesn't see it happening. The first option is more likely. Wenger has already said he likes to pressure opponents while relieving the threat to our own defence by keeping possession in the opposition half. So for me, Ramsey's lack of discipline is actually Ramsey following instructions. This is reinforced by the recklessness of Flamini positionally when he plays. Ramsey would be dropped if he was defying Wenger and if Wenger can't see it happening at all the we're in deeper shit than we thought.

Conclusion. It's the football management equivalent of the Emperor's New Clothes but nobody with a voice has piped up yet.

i think this too.

Mostly because we have seen a very disciplined and ball recycling Ramsey in the past. We even saw it against Leicester the last league match.

But just because he can ball recycle does not mean he is great at it or you get hte best out of him. He is clearly better when going forward.

[Power n Glory]

Yes, a recurring pattern and a recurring problem so one of 3 possibilities. First, Wenger wants Ramsey to abandon ship to add to the attacking threat. Second, Wenger sees it happening but can't get Ramsey to follow instructions. Three, Wenger doesn't see it happening. The first option is more likely. Wenger has already said he likes to pressure opponents while relieving the threat to our own defence by keeping possession in the opposition half. So for me, Ramsey's lack of discipline is actually Ramsey following instructions. This is reinforced by the recklessness of Flamini positionally when he plays. Ramsey would be dropped if he was defying Wenger and if Wenger can't see it happening at all the we're in deeper shit than we thought.

Conclusion. It's the football management equivalent of the Emperor's New Clothes but nobody with a voice has piped up yet.

A combination of 1 and 3. He likes Ramsey running forward but doesn't see the adverse effect it has. Ramsey isn't being coached right and I've mentioned this before, but if Wenger had any interest in developing Ramsey, he wouldn't play him on the right. What can he possibly learn in that position besides bombing forward and looking for goals? He needs to learn how to control a midfield, picking out the right pass, building from deep, etc. Get those basics down and he'll start to find himself in goal scoring positions. But our manager isn't coaching that and I also think he's encouraging this reckless style without correction. He mentioned the mistake we made against Monaco when playing Barca but who does he think should be back covering when we get hit on the break?

[Power n Glory]

i think this too.

Mostly because we have seen a very disciplined and ball recycling Ramsey in the past. We even saw it against Leicester the last league match.

But just because he can ball recycle does not mean he is great at it or you get hte best out of him. He is clearly better when going forward.

Leicester City was a bit of a different game. They had 10 men and played 4-4-2 so the centre wasn't as tight and squeezed like we see for other games.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It will be interesting to see what the atmosphere is like at the Emirates

Last season I went to the first home games after the 2-1 defeat to United and 3-2 defeat to stoke when the Anti Wenger atmosphere was rife.

In the Dortmund game walking to the stadium you could tell it was muted, no singing no chants and no expectation of doing that much, however the atmosphere improved as the game went on.

Same with the first home game after Stoke, nervous atmosphere first half and improved when we went 3-0 up in second half. There were Wenger out banners outside the stadium but fans who were annoyed by Wenger being called a cunt at Stoke station sang his name.

Be interesting to see what the reception is like Wednesday especially if there is not markedly improved performance

[Niall_Quinn]

Be interesting to see what the reception is like Wednesday especially ifwhen there is not markedly improved performance

Fixed it for you.

[Munchies]

We'll win on Wednesday I think

Get smashed on Sat

[mastermind84]

Leicester City was a bit of a different game. They had 10 men and played 4-4-2 so the centre wasn't as tight and squeezed like we see for other games.
He was still not going into forward spaces as often and sat back and just moved the ball.

Its not his game but he can play that way. That was just this season but he has done it many times before in the past.

[Power n Glory]

We took Coquelin off for Walcott and Ramsey had to sit. Not sure if he was given instructions but again, it was a different game. He understands what's required for DM but not for CM.

[mastermind84]

We took Coquelin off for Walcott and Ramsey had to sit. Not sure if he was given instructions but again, it was a different game. He understands what's required for DM but not for CM.
you just confirmed he can do that.

even if it was a different type of game, he has that in his locker. The temptation would have been to surge forward.

[Power n Glory]

you just confirmed he can do that.

even if it was a different type of game, he has that in his locker.

How have I confirmed that? Show me. We've had this debate before. He may know what's required of a DM but he's not showing he knows what's required to be a CM. It's not about his ability. It's more down to his mentality and intelligence. I don't know whether it's down selfishness, instructions or a lack of understanding about the position for us.

Playing DM is a more restrictive/disciplined role and especially when we've taken off Coquelin. Ramsey would have to be really stupid to carry on going gung ho after seeing Coquelin subbed. It's like when Wenger has sometimes taken off our rightback and had a winger playing there place. I think Ox has had to play there after a sub. Even though he's an attacking player, he has enough sense to curb his attacks and runs forward.

CM you have more license to get forward and that's where Ramsey is going wrong. Just because you have that freedom, doesn't mean you should be so reckless. That's his main problem in that role. It's more a mental and intelligence thing. It's not technical. Take Santi as an example. He's attack minded but curbed that instinct and adjusts when playing CM because he knows a more disciplined and defensive duty is required.

[mastermind84]

How have I confirmed that? Show me. We've had this debate before. He may know what's required of a DM but he's not showing he knows what's required to be a CM. It's not about his ability. It's more down to his mentality and intelligence. I don't know whether it's down selfishness, instructions or a lack of understanding about the position for us.

Playing DM is a more restrictive/disciplined role and especially when we've taken off Coquelin. Ramsey would have to be really stupid to carry on going gung ho after seeing Coquelin subbed. It's like when Wenger has sometimes taken off our rightback and had a winger playing there place. I think Ox has had to play there after a sub. Even though he's an attacking player, he has enough sense to curb his attacks and runs forward.

CM you have more license to get forward and that's where Ramsey is going wrong. Just because you have that freedom, doesn't mean you should be so reckless. That's his main problem in that role. It's more a mental and intelligence thing. It's not technical. Take Santi as an example. He's attack minded but curbed that instinct and adjusts when playing CM because he knows a more disciplined and defensive duty is required.

you typed all of this to agree with what i said earlier, lol. I did not disagree with any of this at all.


Its interesting that we are focusing on central midfield and Cazorla

First 14 games of the season - 8 wins, 3 draws, 3 losses.
Since Cazorla's injury we have played 13 games - 7 wins, 3 draws, 3 losses.

The major problem isnt Cazorla or Central midfield. We dont score goals.

[LDG]

We dont score goals.

And concede stupid ones.

[Letters]

A friend of mine was so disgusted by our performance on Sunday he went out and nailed his season ticket to a tree. He thought better of it later so went back to get it but, sure enough, someone had stolen the nail.
Ba Dum, Tish.

[Özim]

Arsene Wenger was spotted with his squad heading to the bottle bank in the early hours of Monday morning, sadly it turns out is was a wasted trip as they had no bottle.

[LDG]

A friend of mine was so disgusted by our performance on Sunday he went out and nailed his season ticket to a tree. He thought better of it later so went back to get it but, sure enough, someone had stolen the nail.
Ba Dum, Tish.

Was he on his way to the bottle bank?

[LDG]

Damn it Zimm :lol:

:haha:

[Gooner23]

Anyone heard his press conference comments? Basically giving 2 fingers to the criticism. Utterly deluded and detached from the fan base.

[Özim]

We must fight together until the last game of the season according to Wenger and we don't lack leaders, it's just that he can't name them:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/01/arsenal-arsene-wenger-criticism-solidarity-manchester-united

Let's not forget we have won many big games.

[Globalgunner]

And after the last game of the season after weve won nothing, not even the St Totts cup. We must combine all our togetherness and spirit and fight from the start of next season.

[Özim]

Anyone heard his press conference comments? Basically giving 2 fingers to the criticism. Utterly deluded and detached from the fan base.

He does what he does best, bury his head.

Wright got it spot on, his players get nothing but praise, even after poor performances Wenger can't fault their effort or application, it's almost like he doesn't watch the matches from the sidelines.

Sometimes players need a kick up the backside and criticism when they don't turn up, all he does is praise them.

[Özim]

And after the last game of the season after weve won nothing, not even the St Totts cup. We must combine all our togetherness and spirit and fight from the start of next season.

We won't have won nothing, we'll have that 4th place major trophy which all players should be very proud of, we have qualified for the CL for last 2 million years....

[Letters]

Damn it Zimm :lol:

:haha:

:lol:

Gallows humour :bow:

[Gooner23]

I don't care that he is still positive about our chances, in fact the last thing I'd want is a manager giving up at this stage. But the arrogance and sarcasm is quite hard to take. Apparently the criticism is excessive? I'd argue the opposite in that it hasn't gone far enough.

[Kano]

Was he on his way to the bottle bank?

He was on his way back from the pound shop but something pounds and something 99p bottle.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't care that he is still positive about our chances, in fact the last thing I'd want is a manager giving up at this stage. But the arrogance and sarcasm is quite hard to take. Apparently the criticism is excessive? I'd argue the opposite in that it hasn't gone far enough.

I think he means any criticism at all is excessive. But at least he thanked us for our interest in his affairs.

[Özim]

I don't care that he is still positive about our chances, in fact the last thing I'd want is a manager giving up at this stage. But the arrogance and sarcasm is quite hard to take. Apparently the criticism is excessive? I'd argue the opposite in that it hasn't gone far enough.

He never stops believing thats's the trouble, even when it's clear we don't have enough he never does what is needed. What he thinks doesn't matter at all, he's a loser who hasn't got a clue what it takes to succeed in modern day football.

Whether he gives up or not has no impact on the team at all, nothing he says does, the players just turn up if they feel like it, if we replaced a Wenger with a cardboard cutout we'd probably have more points right now.

[Power n Glory]

you typed all of this to agree with what i said earlier, lol. I did not disagree with any of this at all.


Its interesting that we are focusing on central midfield and Cazorla

First 14 games of the season - 8 wins, 3 draws, 3 losses.
Since Cazorla's injury we have played 13 games - 7 wins, 3 draws, 3 losses.

The major problem isnt Cazorla or Central midfield. We dont score goals.

Where did I agree? What did I agree on? I agree that Ramsey is a problem, yes. Must be a misunderstanding.

Also, didn't you say earlier the midfield was huge problem as well as scoring?


Cazorla does not have guile either (lots of craft tho)

Central Midfield is a huge problem.

But we have created oodles of chances and have not scored. I think our attack is just as big a problem. Theo only getting 17 touches in 63 minutes was embarrassing and this may see his time at the club ending shortly.

This summer a CM must be targeted along with some goal scoring attackers.

Also, we are counting down the days on Ozil. He wont be here for much longer if he has to play with this shower.


But if Wenger is going to continue playing with 2 CMs in this 4231 and have them sitting deep, then Ramsey needs to be sold. He only works in a 3 man midfield.

[selassie]

I think he means any criticism at all is excessive. But at least he thanked us for our interest in his affairs.

Pretty much this.

[IBK]

At the start of 2015 we had found a team that worked. Unexpectedly Wenger put Cazorla next to Coquelin and Ramsey out on the right. It reinvigorated Santi's game after it had become a bit stale as the years caught up with him on the wing. Ramsey's work ethic allowed Bellerin to get forward and also meant he could come inside to create an extra man in midfield. Aaron was still finding runs into the box but his finishing had deserted him.

Since losing Cazorla Wenger hasn't managed to find that same balance in the team. Ramsey in the middle just isn't working. Elneny or even Iwobi deserve a shot there, the latter showing excellent distribution when played in the number 10 role so far. Theo is only a sub, nothing more. Campbell needs to get back onto the pitch if Ramsey is not going to be put out wide and get Alexis into the middle to see if that shakes up his form. Welbeck we have to be careful with because he's been out for quite a while but going by recent performances he should be on the pitch starting.

:gp:

[IBK]

We must fight together until the last game of the season according to Wenger and we don't lack leaders, it's just that he can't name them:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/01/arsenal-arsene-wenger-criticism-solidarity-manchester-united

Let's not forget we have won many big games.

TBH I'm not sure our malaise is about leadership. How many of our competitors have what we would regard as leaders? For me, we are failing in comparison with the likes of Leicester and Spurs because both these teams are super-organised, and have managers with a plan who are getting balanced and organised teams to play as a team. We are a collection of individuals with little or no direction, and a manager who seems to be making it up as he goes along. I have watched several of our games recently, and wondered how the manager has planned our approach to scoring against the opposition. My conclusion is that there isn't any plan. Our players do not look as though they have a clue what they are supposed to be doing - and it is far too easy to nullify the 'threat' of our attacking players. Meanwhile we look vulnerable constantly to any counter attack.

[Power n Glory]

TBH I'm not sure our malaise is about leadership. How many of our competitors have what we would regard as leaders? For me, we are failing in comparison with the likes of Leicester and Spurs because both these teams are super-organised, and have managers with a plan who are getting balanced and organised teams to play as a team. We are a collection of individuals with little or no direction, and a manager who seems to be making it up as he goes along. I have watched several of our games recently, and wondered how the manager has planned our approach to scoring against the opposition. My conclusion is that there isn't any plan. Our players do not look as though they have a clue what they are supposed to be doing - and it is far too easy to nullify the 'threat' of our attacking players. Meanwhile we look vulnerable constantly to any counter attack.

It's a free for all. They all do what they want. It would explain why two players can play the same position but play in totally different ways. Coquelin at DM will hold off from going too far forward. Flamini at DM just bombs forward with no regard for defending. Ramsey at CM just bombs forward without building from deep, Cazorla on the other hand will sit deeper and distribute the ball and play a more measured game. Theo focuses totally on making off the ball runs and staying forward when on the flanks, Ox and Campbell will try to build play from further back like normal wingers. So on and so on.

Not every player is the same but there seems to be no solid foundation to what they're supposed to be doing out there.

[IBK]

It's a free for all. They all do what they want. It would explain why two players can play the same position but play in totally different ways. Coquelin at DM will hold off from going too far forward. Flamini at DM just bombs forward with no regard for defending. Ramsey at CM just bombs forward without building from deep, Cazorla on the other hand will sit deeper and distribute the ball and play a more measured game. Theo focuses totally on making off the ball runs and staying forward when on the flanks, Ox and Campbell will try to build play from further back like normal wingers. So on and so on.

Not every player is the same but there seems to be no solid foundation to what they're supposed to be doing out there.

Agreed - and what's more I think this explains why we are falling behind in comparison to younger, hungrier and more tactically astute managers. The extra money in the EPL means that margins are being narrowed. Traditionally lower placed teams are scouting players who are technically better in comparison to the top teams; all teams now are well on top of fitness/nutrition etc - and while we used to be at our best in later stages of games because of our superior fitness we are now encountering teams who can press like mofo's and put us off our pasing game right to the final whistle. The biggest factor, though is that we now have managers who are adept at spotting the weaknesses in other teams and whose players buy in absolutely to their managers' philosophy and tactical approach. Spurs and Leicester are flying high not because they necessarily have the best players (although both teams have benefitted from having strikers on phenomenal form all season), but because they have a game plan that their teams believe in and stick to - to great effect. And this breeds the confidence that has predictably leeched out of our team since mid December. The fact that Wenger cannot see how the game is developing in this way - when this extraordinary season has thrown this tactical approach to the game into sharp relief - is a reason in itself why his time is up.

[fakeyank]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFDLDvBSBFQ

This is seriously one of the funniest shit I have ever watched. The part about Depay in the end just killed it for me.

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

[Kano]

Agreed - and what's more I think this explains why we are falling behind in comparison to younger, hungrier and more tactically astute managers. The extra money in the EPL means that margins are being narrowed. Traditionally lower placed teams are scouting players who are technically better in comparison to the top teams; all teams now are well on top of fitness/nutrition etc - and while we used to be at our best in later stages of games because of our superior fitness we are now encountering teams who can press like mofo's and put us off our pasing game right to the final whistle. The biggest factor, though is that we now have managers who are adept at spotting the weaknesses in other teams and whose players buy in absolutely to their managers' philosophy and tactical approach. Spurs and Leicester are flying high not because they necessarily have the best players (although both teams have benefitted from having strikers on phenomenal form all season), but because they have a game plan that their teams believe in and stick to - to great effect. And this breeds the confidence that has predictably leeched out of our team since mid December. The fact that Wenger cannot see how the game is developing in this way - when this extraordinary season has thrown this tactical approach to the game into sharp relief - is a reason in itself why his time is up.
To be fair, only one younger manager is superseding Wenger at the moment, the other four teams immediately around us are all led by men of a similar age. Even Mourinho and Koeman are men in their early 50's. If Fergie was still around that would add to the list of aged managers, I'm not sure it is age, more adaptability to new thinking that allows a manager to keep on at the very top. And money hasn't made too much of a difference when you look at West Ham's, Leicester's, Watford's or Southampton's spending over the past year or two. Speed, pressing and counter attacking across the board, descended from Bielsa's style onto Pep, Simeone and Klopp has hit these shores in a big way now. It's no surprise that the two teams sitting at the top of the league employ that style and haven't spent a fortune getting there either.

For all the frusrating faults and lack of progression with the resources at his disposal, Wenger has managed to keep himself above an endless stream of younger managers over the years. So as dated and frustrating as his approach is at times to us all, he has been wise enough to manage that. But of course what Wenger has lacked for some time is he ability to maximise the talents of the players at hand.