Match Reaction - Spuds 2-2 Arsenal

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger out.

[adzzzbatch]

Fuck coquelin.

[Gubby Allen]

Decent result under the circumstances, but we could be 8 points behind Leicester and only two ahead of Man Utd by tomorrow.

Time to cheer on Leicester

[Globalgunner]

Wenger out, team stuck in a rut going nowhere. Coq being sent off only masks his general inadequacies.

[Kano]

We were bang in that game until Coquelin's stupidity came to the fore.

Done well to come back for a point and praise goes to the team for that.

Ref screwed us over by not sending off Dier for a clear second yellow right in front of him.

[Marc Overmars]

In context of the game it's a good point.

In terms of the title race though it's useless. It's time to start looking over our shoulder now, 3rd/4th place cup is on!

Wenger OUT.

[GP]

Coquelin cost us 2 points here. We were pretty comfortable until then.

[Niall_Quinn]

Decent result under the circumstances, but we could be 8 points behind Leicester and only two ahead of Man Utd by tomorrow.

Time to cheer on Leicester

Pretty much.

1 point from 9 at the sharp end of a season that has presented the best chance we'll have of winning a title. The manager has to go. Why is he still here? It's ridiculous. Pellegrini was sacked for being a fuck-up. Maureen, despite all his trophies, was sacked for fucking-up. van Genius will be gone at the end of the season and Moyes was booted straight out the door. Rodgers went. How can this old fool survive?

[Gubby Allen]

Ospina was terrific as he usually is, Welbeck played very well again too.

Sanchez looked a little better, Gabriel got lucky at the end. Coquelin was stupid.

Not impressed with Ozil, particularly with ten men he was dreadful.

Could have won it at the end though.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My opinion on Wenger hasn't changed, however compare this to the completely guileless performance against United and Swansea this shows at least the players care.
Spurs are a decent side, they play like a team and had we performed like we should have done against United and Swansea this would have been a fantastic point.

[Ernesto]

Coquelin's an arsehole. A manager with guts would drop him from now until the end of the season and play him only in the cup, if anything.

Very happy with the equaliser.

Bellerin, Ospina and Welbeck MOTM, in that order.

[Kano]

Ospina was terrific as he usually is, Welbeck played very well again too.

Sanchez looked a little better, Gabriel got lucky at the end. Coquelin was stupid.

Not impressed with Ozil, particularly with ten men he was dreadful.

Could have won it at the end though.

Big game = no Ozil

[Niall_Quinn]

Coquelin's an arsehole. A manager with guts would drop him from now until the end of the season and play him only in the cup, if anything.

Very happy with the equaliser.

Bellerin, Ospina and Welbeck MOTM, in that order.

Bellerin? Not so sure about that.

[Letters]

Expected us to lose so I'd have taken a point.

[Gubby Allen]

Coquelin cost us 2 points here. We were pretty comfortable until then.

Neither goal had anything to do with ten men. But the sending off just gave them momentum and got the crowd all up for it.

[fakeyank]

Great result. Cannot believe we drew with 10 men. 4th place trophy going to go down the wire!

[Ernesto]

Bellerin? Not so sure about that.

I thought he did ok. In terms of mistakes, needlessly giving the ball away, etc- he didn't do much of that. Furthermore, he offered something going forward, too.

A very mature performance from the young full-back.

[Globalgunner]

Coquelin's an arsehole. A manager with guts would drop him from now until the end of the season and play him only in the cup, if anything.

Very happy with the equaliser.

Bellerin, Ospina and Welbeck MOTM, in that order.

If you drop Coquelin. You get Flamini or Arteta. Do you really want that?. OUr players suffer from bad management that makes them do stupid things.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ospina was terrific as he usually is, Welbeck played very well again too.

Sanchez looked a little better, Gabriel got lucky at the end. Coquelin was stupid.

Not impressed with Ozil, particularly with ten men he was dreadful.

Could have won it at the end though.

Very poor (or suspect fitness levels). Game was passing him by once we'd been cheated.

I thought the whole attitude of this club was summed up when with 30 seconds left Ospina just held the ball and let the clock count down. Wenger settled for the draw despite the fact the spuds were cracking. We'll never go the extra mile with Wenger in charge and it wouldn't be surprising (though still not acceptable) if certain players were suffering from the hopelessness and pointlessness of it all.

We absolutely must get rid of this manager so something, anything fresh can be injected into the club.

As it is, the old goat will be going on about spirit and never giving up and fighting to the final whistle. As he sits potentially 8 points off Leicester Fucking City. The roof has been lifted on his comfy little gig and it's a sorry sight. He's got nothing when it counts.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Barring some odd results only really on the fringes of the league now but because of that, results will probably pick up.

The ref was ridiculous in not sending Dier off though. Coquelin's was a blatant second yellow but why wasn't that?

[Kano]

If you drop Coquelin. You get Flamini or Arteta. Do you really want that?. OUr players suffer from bad management that makes them do stupid things.

We can point the finger at Wenger for so many things but no. That was entirely down to Coquelin making a rash and pointless decision. Twice.

[Globalgunner]

We can point the finger at Wenger for so many things but no. That was entirely down to Coquelin making a rash and pointless decision. Twice.

2 red cards against Chelsea 1 again this game and you cannot see a pattern there. Or do the refs really just hate us?

[Niall_Quinn]

Barring some odd results only really on the fringes of the league now but because of that, results will probably pick up.

The ref was ridiculous in not sending Dier off though. Coquelin's was a blatant second yellow but why wasn't that?

Wasn't a first yellow though, considering what Oliver let the spuds away with. By the book you can say Coquelin had to go. By by the refereeing standard you have to say there was one set of rules for us and another for the spuds - all through the game. That's cheating and it's unacceptable.

Kane is such a fucking cheat. It's horrible. Diving cunt.

[Kano]

2 red cards against Chelsea 1 again this game and you cannot see a pattern there. Or do the refs really just hate us?

Most fouled team in the league, yet we are the ones who pick up the red cards usually. Not too hard to figure out where the problem is.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ospina was terrific as he usually is.

What game were you watching?

[Kano]

What game were you watching?
3/4 really good saves today. He kept us in it at times.

[Gubby Allen]

What game were you watching?

The one where he made 9 saves.

[Marc Overmars]

So from title race to scraping it out for a CL spot. We really are parody of ourselves.

Today should be an encouraging point but nothing about this lot encourages me anymore. Bollocks to them I say.

[Ollie the Optimist]

No complaints with our red card, just stupidly from Coquelin. Given recent games, going down to ten men, conceding twice quickly, most would think game over so the lads showed a lot of balls to come back into that.

Happy with a point. Spurs bottled that big time. Just like Oliver and the second yellow for Dier

[Munchies]

Coquelin is a cunt.

Our defence is a shambles.

Alexis seems like he wants out at FT

Wenger OUT.

Everyone should root for Leicester. They will stop Spurs from winning it.

[dostoy]

I did not know the result until I came on here.

I expected it to be at least 3-0 to Spuds so I am amazed.

Ospina deserves huge credit, Coquelin deserves none.

Referee cocked it up apparently with Dier.

I still want Wenger out, its more important than winning the fuck all cup again AND getting into the top 4.

[fakeyank]

I did not know the result until I came on here.

I expected it to be at least 3-0 to Spuds so I am amazed.

Ospina deserves huge credit, Coquelin deserves none.

Referee cocked it up apparently with Dier.

I still want Wenger out, its more important than winning the fuck all cup again AND getting into the top 4.

We are winning the CL instead

[Niall_Quinn]

We are winning the CL instead

What's that? The Choker's League?

[Letters]

So from title race to scraping it out for a CL spot. We really are parody of ourselves.

Today should be an encouraging point but nothing about this lot encourages me anymore. Bollocks to them I say.
Don't particularly disagree but we made our problems in the last 2 games (well, it started before that but the last 2 have been the ones which broke the camel's back).

A point away at Spurs is a good result. Like it or not they are a good side this year and with the form we're in I'd have taken a point all day long.

[Niall_Quinn]

Don't particularly disagree but we made our problems in the last 2 games (well, it started before that but the last 2 have been the ones which broke the camel's back).

A point away at Spurs is a good result. Like it or not they are a good side this year and with the form we're in I'd have taken a point all day long.

No it isn't and no they aren't - as we just saw. Just like the point at Liverpool was no good. Just like the other lame draws and losses were no good. Those dropped points have closed the door on a title if Leicester pick up 3 today. 1 point from 9. It's no good. Even though we keep getting chance after chance. Blown every time. The highlight of our season is a last minute goal against a 10 man Leicester, which we then spectacularly failed to build on.

As for the spuds, as soon as they conceded they fell to pieces, bottled it even worse than we do. Same old spuds. Same points they usually have at this stage. Solid but nothing special. Couldn't press home an advantage against 10 men at home. If that had been us we'd be rightly getting slated. Spuds should be well above Leicester too. Crap by them, even if cocks like Redknapp thing it will the most impressive title ever if they fluke it. And they cheat. Never seen a team hit the deck so much, since every time I have ever watched Marketing.

Very ordinary. Like us.

[Globalgunner]

No it isn't and no they aren't - as we just saw. Just like the point at Liverpool was no good. Just like the other lame draws and losses were no good. Those dropped points have closed the door on a title if Leicester pick up 3 today. 1 point from 9. It's no good. Even though we keep getting chance after chance. Blown every time. The highlight of our season is a last minute goal against a 10 man Leicester, which we then spectacularly failed to build on.

As for the spuds, as soon as they conceded they fell to pieces, bottled it even worse than we do. Same old spuds. Same points they usually have at this stage. Solid but nothing special. Couldn't press home an advantage against 10 men at home. If that had been us we'd be rightly getting slated. Spuds should be well above Leicester too. Crap by them, even if cocks like Redknapp thing it will the most impressive title ever if they fluke it. And they cheat. Never seen a team hit the deck so much, since every time I have ever watched Marketing.

Very ordinary. Like us.

Absolutely spot on. Its not that the Spuds are so good. Its us that are so bad. We have 3 WC players , Spuds have 1, the GK. Yet they are above us. How many WC players do you need to make up for Wumger?. With everyone else, City, United, Chelsea cocking up we have decided to follow suit. Next season for sure will be more of the same. Pot luck to see who can cock up less than us. Have to rule City out as they will have a proper manager. Chelsea too. Lets pray United stick with LVG.

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ccy8WkWWoAEPymZ.jpg

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The one where he made 9 saves.

Also spilled shots unnecessarily, terrible distribution and acrobatics he only had to make because he's a short arse.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

So clearly Oliver has been paying too much attention to his older colleagues. His decision not to send Dier off was pretty spineless. I thought Sanchez was much better today and even thought he has been looking better in the last game. Ramsey too. The filth really should have put us to the sword but Spurs gonna spur.

[Power n Glory]

Didn't watch the game but not a good enough result.

[Özim]

Result not unexpected for me, as I said in the match thread I actually expected a win as Wenger has this way of rescuing himself when things are looking bad, it's a draw at the end of the day and the amount of points we've picked up since the Liverpool game is just embarrassing, only a win would have done today after recent results. I just hope Leicester win today and finish our chances because this team isn't Championship quality and doesn't deserve a title, I'd be embarrassed to see a side as bad as us win the title.

Man City who have been awful are now just two points behind us with a match in hand.

This may convince a few that things are good and that he can stay on, but nothing changes for me, the clueless guy needs to leave, he's a hopeless manager.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Result not unexpected for me, as I said in the match thread I actually expected a win as Wenger has this way or rescuing himself when things are looking bad, it's a draw at the end of the day and the amount of points we've picked up since the Liverpool game is just embarrassing. I just hope Leicester win today and finish our chances because this team isn't Championship quality and doesn't deserve a title, I'd be embarrassed to see a side as bad as us win the title.

Man City who have been awful are now just two points behind us with a match in hand.

This may convince a few that things are good and that he can stay on, but nothing changes for me, the clueless guy needs to leave, he's a hopeless manager.


Absolutely ridiculous, why do you even support the club

The club is more important than the manager. Yes we probably won't win the title but wanting us to miss out is ridiculous.

[Özim]

Absolutely ridiculous, why do you even support the club

The club is more important than the manager. Yes we probably won't win the title but wanting us to miss out is ridiculous.

A club who win the title should play with desire and look like a team who have performed over a season, we've been dreadful, it would be embarrassing to win it given how we've played in the last 4 months. Winning the title would just mean the manager thinks he's got it right and then nothing would change, we need change not a delusional, clueless guy at the helm.

Leicester are the most deserving given their resources and how they have performed over the season.

Besides the club is AW, he's made it so, nothing about it is Arsenal anymore, when he leaves the club might have a chance of returning to what it was, a top club with ambitions to be the best.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Go and support another club then if you think it's Wenger FC not Arsenal FC , who cares if you think we deserve it or not.

Thinking we won't win the title is one thing, wanting us not to win the title is not what a fan does.

Getting frustrated with Wenger and his shortcomings after so many years is totally understandable, but none of us wants him to fail apart from you it seems.

[Özim]

Go and support another club then if you think it's Wenger FC not Arsenal FC , who cares if you think we deserve it or not.

Thinking we won't win the title is one thing, wanting us not to win the title is not what a fan does.

Getting frustrated with Wenger and his shortcomings after so many years is totally understandable, but none of us wants him to fail apart from you it seems.

You have to earn the right to win the title, we just haven't and to see a man as incompetent as Wenger would be ridiculous, he's lucky but not that lucky.

Plenty of people want him to fail as many can't bare the sight of him or the thought of him staying on.

As I said it would be embarrassing to win the title with such a poor season of football by us.

[Kano]

Win the title or not, Wenger will still be here. Time to come back to reality. Both owners are fully behind him and neither have an interest in what happens on the pitch, just what goes into their bank accounts.

I can't it happening at all but if we won the title i wouldn't be embarrassed. We would have won the title with more points than anyone else. Job done. Especially as Spurs would look like utter cunts too, which just doubles the joy. It would be all the other teams that need to take a good look at themselves.

[dostoy]

I want us to win the PL but there is simply no chance.

I don't care much for the fuck all consolation cup because that is all it is now.

Wenger must must must must must go in the summer.

The new manager must have targets and if he does not achieve them then out he goes, if there is someone better out there available.

Wenger has far too much power and this must never happen again.

[Kano]

I want us to win the PL but there is simply no chance.

I don't care much for the fuck all consolation cup because that is all it is now.

Wenger must must must must must go in the summer.

The new manager must have targets and if he does not achieve them then out he goes, if there is someone better out there available.

Wenger has far too much power and this must never happen again.

Surely you're thinking of owners that give a fuck?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

If Tottenham won the league, I think that would be enough to oust him. I doubt that will actually happen though.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You have to earn the right to win the title, we just haven't and to see a man as incompetent as Wenger would be ridiculous, he's lucky but not that lucky.

Plenty of people want him to fail as many can't bare the sight of him or the thought of him staying on.

As I said it would be embarrassing to win the title with such a poor season of football by us.


Please name all these Arsenal fans who want us to fail you aside

Thinking we are not good enough and that Wenger should go....yes

Thinking Wenger should go even if we win the title....yes

But wanting Arsenal to fail? No that's just you im afraid

[Özim]

The specialist in failure must be feeling less smug tonight with Leicester effectively putting us out of the title race, still I'm sure he'll get over it quickly enough and soon praise our quality in achieving 4th place.

F*cking loser.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If Tottenham won the league, I think that would be enough to oust him. I doubt that will actually happen though.

Importantly do you want that to happen?.

Yes we are all fed up of Wenger and want him gone, but would you be prepared to see Spurs finishing above Arsenal if that acheived it.

My answer is No

[Özim]

Please name all these Arsenal fans who want us to fail you aside

Thinking we are not good enough and that Wenger should go....yes

Thinking Wenger should go even if we win the title....yes

But wanting Arsenal to fail? No that's just you im afraid

FY was cheering Leicester so that's one for a start, there are others who have said as much too.

Anyway looks like it's over now, the pipedream can go on the backburner for another season, the man doesn't have it in him and won't have, but nothing will change and we'll speak again about this at a similar time next season no doubt.

Your theory about Wenger doing no damage to the club is incorrect as well I'm afraid the damage he's done will take years to fix.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Importantly do you want that to happen?.

Yes we are all fed up of Wenger and want him gone, but would you be prepared to see Spurs finishing above Arsenal if that acheived it.

My answer is No

I wasn't suggesting it as a viable option, it's what I think would do it though.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I thought we were good today, took a bit of time to settle in but after spurs went 2-1 up i expected them to run away with it but instead we came back into the game and looked the better side. If Oliver had correctly applied the rules and evened the match up, i actually think we would have won.

Lets be clear though, this is a much worse result for spurs then it us. 2-1 up against ten men who haven't won in 4 games, and they bottled it. Everyone has spoken a lot recently about our players being weak, they weren't today. Spurs were. They choked today and last Wednesday.

[GP]

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20160305/coquelin-i-m-so-sorry-for-red-card

Fair play

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

FY was cheering Leicester so that's one for a start, there are others who have said as much too.

Anyway looks like it's over now, the pipedream can go on the backburner for another season, the man doesn't have it in him and won't have, but nothing will change and we'll speak again about this at a similar time next season no doubt.

Your theory about Wenger doing no damage to the club is incorrect as well I'm afraid the damage he's done will take years to fix.

It's not a theory it's a fact there has been real no damage done, its not man united or Liverpool where the squad needs big overhaul.

We aren't in loads of debts if he doesn't sign a contract whether he leaves this season or next there will most likely be champions league football.

A new manager will have their own coaching set up and their own ideas of how to get the best out of current players and new players.

So what is this damage?.

Yes he has failed in match preparation, having a team that's mentally and physically strong and hasn't played well this season.....but we are in third not Chelsea's position, so this damage is ephemeral.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I wasn't suggesting it as a viable option, it's what I think would do it though.

It was more posed at Zim, by asking other people whether they want Arsenal to fail in order to see Wenger gone.

More than likely we won't win the title, but if there's a chance even a slim one to want us not to take it to spite the manager is not the mentality of a genuine fan.

[Power n Glory]

Please name all these Arsenal fans who want us to fail you aside

Thinking we are not good enough and that Wenger should go....yes

Thinking Wenger should go even if we win the title....yes

But wanting Arsenal to fail? No that's just you im afraid

I've heard some others say similar. I guess the thought process comes from thinking about another season under Wenger. Having to go through the same shit another year. It's a horrible thought.

I'm conflicted. The only reason I care about us winning the league now is because Spurs have a shot. It's embarrassing stuff. If we win by stumbling over the line I really wouldn't feel that it's a great achievement. In fact, it's bad enough having to say we needed our main rivals to have complete disasters to stand a chance of winning the league. It's really pathetic. But what makes it worse is seeing us still struggle even with Utd, City and Chelsea out of the title race. It's really embarrassing. If we win the league, I really don't know how I'd feel to see Wenger stay another year and come up with some patronising soundbite as if he and his players achieved something. We're losers regardless of the outcome. That's how I feel about this season and it sucks.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20160305/coquelin-i-m-so-sorry-for-red-card

Fair play


Not really, he deserves a shin kicking.

At 1-0 11 vs 11 I think we'd have won.

[Power n Glory]

It's not a theory it's a fact there has been real no damage done, its not man united or Liverpool where the squad needs big overhaul.

We aren't in loads of debts if he doesn't sign a contract whether he leaves this season or next there will most likely be champions league football.

A new manager will have their own coaching set up and their own ideas of how to get the best out of current players and new players.

So what is this damage?.

Yes he has failed in match preparation, having a team that's mentally and physically strong and hasn't played well this season.....but we are in third not Chelsea's position, so this damage is ephemeral.

Being the mouthpiece and puppet for the bloodsucking Board is where the damage is being done. He has helped them price fans out of the game and it's made worse by the fact that we have spineless players and play boring football. Without his consent and cooperation, this charade would have never lasted thing long. He had the trust of the fans and has totally abused it. As Ian Wright said today, I don't think the losses hurt him as much as they should.

[Özim]

It's not a theory it's a fact there has been real no damage done, its not man united or Liverpool where the squad needs big overhaul.

We aren't in loads of debts if he doesn't sign a contract whether he leaves this season or next there will most likely be champions league football.

A new manager will have their own coaching set up and their own ideas of how to get the best out of current players and new players.

So what is this damage?.

Yes he has failed in match preparation, having a team that's mentally and physically strong and hasn't played well this season.....but we are in third not Chelsea's position, so this damage is ephemeral.

I disagree, Rosciky, Flamini, Walcott, Gibbs, Wilshere, Jenkinson, Sanogo, Debuchy, Metersacker, Ospina all need replacing in some form or other, we need a CB or two, a top class striker, a winger, a DM and some squad players, that's a big overhaul. The squad isn't in a great state at all in fact.

In addition 20 years of his nutty methods will be deeply ingrained in the club and to change this will take plenty of time, everything is about him, it won't be easy for a new manager to change all coaching, youth setup, players mindset and the style of play etc.

He's also turned a club into a club that accepts losing and is proud of it, that's hard to change as the owners are more than happy with this too.

In all lkelyness we could well be another Man U, after all they have plenty money so finances don't mean that much, the problem is more the fact the same person has been in charge for so long.

[Özim]

I thought we were good today, took a bit of time to settle in but after spurs went 2-1 up i expected them to run away with it but instead we came back into the game and looked the better side. If Oliver had correctly applied the rules and evened the match up, i actually think we would have won.

Lets be clear though, this is a much worse result for spurs then it us. 2-1 up against ten men who haven't won in 4 games, and they bottled it. Everyone has spoken a lot recently about our players being weak, they weren't today. Spurs were. They choked today and last Wednesday.

This is a worse result for us, we're 8 points behind Leicester whereas they are 5 behind, at least they have an outside chance whereas it's over for us, we had to win and failed and after our dreadful form we needed to win to prove something, instead we got a point, not much better than a defeat.

[GP]

https://i.imgur.com/Uqxlb6y.jpg

[Niall_Quinn]

Well done Leicester. One club has stood up and taken this title while the so-called big shots have crapped their pants and collapsed in a mound of shite. We lost the title against Liverpool when Wenger's act of nauseating cowardice signalled loud and clear what we could expect during the run-in. Not even hard pressed Arsenal fans could have known how comprehensively Wenger would blow it, his ability to take us to new depths continues to amaze and revolt.

He needs to go now. Today. If he had an ounce of self respect he'd be gone but he'll stay here and take the cash and he has so little shame he'll be here to fuck up next season too. Unfortunately, when Wenger leaves here is will be in a dense cloud of hatred, vitriol dripping from him. His own fault.

[Niall_Quinn]

This guy is a fucking muppet and a huge part of the problem.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxgV2pbgs5I

[Özim]

This guy is a fucking muppet and a huge part of the problem.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxgV2pbgs5I

Spot on, people like him are the reason mediocrity is now acceptable and the norm at Arsenal, always has an excuse, like a mini AW, is it any wonder nothing ever changes.

[mastermind84]

I think we found something in the midfield but I don't think we should rely on Coquelin to be the starter as our passing is pants. We actually performed better centrally today than in the first match but he and Elneny are redundant (Elneny was really good tho)


I think Chambers may be a better fit than Coquelin because Chambers can spot a pass in the first phase of the build up.

I also think Wenger needs to show that he is the boss and tell Alexis to stay away from the build up and just be in the final 3rd to take chances. Even tho Ramsey's passing was irratic we see his value with his late runs.

[Kano]

Spot on, people like him are the reason mediocrity is now acceptable and the norm at Arsenal, always has an excuse, like a mini AW, is it any wonder nothing ever changes.

So Wenger was right, it is the fans fault after all.

Wenger :bow:

[Özim]

Well done Leicester. One club has stood up and taken this title while the so-called big shots have crapped their pants and collapsed in a mound of shite. We lost the title against Liverpool when Wenger's act of nauseating cowardice signalled loud and clear what we could expect during the run-in. Not even hard pressed Arsenal fans could have known how comprehensively Wenger would blow it, his ability to take us to new depths continues to amaze and revolt.

He needs to go now. Today. If he had an ounce of self respect he'd be gone but he'll stay here and take the cash and he has so little shame he'll be here to fuck up next season too. Unfortunately, when Wenger leaves here is will be in a dense cloud of hatred, vitriol dripping from him. His own fault.

Yes you have to praise Leicester, a proper club who don't mess about and have produced miracles on a shoestring budget and shown the greedy big boys how to do it......nowhere to hide now for managers of those big clubs.

Most deserving team to be Champions, Ranieri has done a wonderful job.

[Özim]

So Wenger was right, it isthe fans fault after all?

Wenger :bow:

A few fans, so he was slightly right, 2% in fact.

[Power n Glory]

This guy is a fucking muppet and a huge part of the problem.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxgV2pbgs5I

Claude and Ty are caricatures. Hate the fact that feature so much.

[fakeyank]

This guy is a fucking muppet and a huge part of the problem.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxgV2pbgs5I

I have met quite a few muppets like him outside the stadium. Its like their spouses have been cheating on them for years but they hang onto them because they got a pity hug and believe everything is going to go back to normal. One of the biggest problems at the club other than the manager and the board are the fans. Give them 2 wins and many of them celebrate Wenger like he is Jesus. Morans!

[Seaman's Ponytail]

I'm conflicted. The only reason I care about us winning the league now is because Spurs have a shot. It's embarrassing stuff. If we win by stumbling over the line I really wouldn't feel that it's a great achievement. In fact, it's bad enough having to say we needed our main rivals to have complete disasters to stand a chance of winning the league. It's really pathetic. But what makes it worse is seeing us still struggle even with Utd, City and Chelsea out of the title race. It's really embarrassing. If we win the league, I really don't know how I'd feel to see Wenger stay another year and come up with some patronising soundbite as if he and his players achieved something. We're losers regardless of the outcome. That's how I feel about this season and it sucks.

In all honesty if we win the league now it won't be by stumbling over the line, it'll be by going on a glorious run of 9 victories in our last 9 games. And Wenger will decide that he'll go out on a high and retire having brought the EPL trophy back home. This is what i hope for.

Course none of that will happen but i can dream

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

In all honesty if we win the league now it won't be by stumbling over the line, it'll be by going on a glorious run of 9 victories in our last 9 games. And Wenger will decide that he'll go out on a high and retire having brought the EPL trophy back home. This is what i hope for.

Course none of that will happen but i can dream

It won't happen no, but I think we can all agree that would be the perfect turn of events.

[AFC Leveller]

I thought Sanchez' goal showed that the guy is wasted down the left, his run in behind was so good and his first time finish caught their GK by surprise. He should be playing either behind Giroud on the right. teams have clocke don to him on the lft, he comes inside and either has a blocked shot or a cross that doesnt beat the first man. He is an explosive finisher and needs to play in the middle IMO.

[Power n Glory]

I thought Sanchez' goal showed that the guy is wasted down the left, his run in behind was so good and his first time finish caught their GK by surprise. He should be playing either behind Giroud on the right. teams have clocke don to him on the lft, he comes inside and either has a blocked shot or a cross that doesnt beat the first man. He is an explosive finisher and needs to play in the middle IMO.

I've never understood why he's never been given a run there.

[AFC Leveller]

I've never understood why he's never been given a run there.

You'd think he would have asked the manager to play him there at least or on the right. I know he had a good season there last season but teams have worked him out and he is struggling to replicate his form.

[Özim]

Liverpool (A) 3-3
Stoke (A) 0-0
Chelsea (H) 0-1
Burnley (H) 2-1
Southampton (A) 0-0
Bournemouth (A) 2-0
Leicester (H) 2-1
Hull City (H) 0-0
Barcelona (H) 0-2
Man U (A) 2-3
Swansea City (H) 1-2
Spurs (A) 0-0

12 Games 3 Wins 5 Draws 4 Defeats in all competitions

10 Points out of 24 Pointsin the league

That's our form since the Liverpool game, truly dreadful, so yeah a draw yesterday was a poor result in the grand scheme of things, a win was a must and seeing as we are now 8 points behind Leicester with an inferior goal difference I'd say we're as good as out of it. City who have been dreadful all season as well if they win their game in hand would also leapfrog us which just shows how bad we've been.

Wenger just has to go.

[Letters]

Wenger does have to go but not because of yesterday.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger does have to go but not because of yesterday.

You don't say? :doh:

[I am invisible]

You'd think he would have asked the manager to play him there at least or on the right. I know he had a good season there last season but teams have worked him out and he is struggling to replicate his form.

Unlikely - he prefers playing on the left...

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/arsenal-star-alexis-sanchez-my-favourite-position-out-left-1474610

That being said, i'm surprised we haven't told him to play right or central more often, when the team has needed it. Or even just a handful of times as an experiment?

[Marc Overmars]

Liverpool (A) 3-3
Stoke (A) 0-0
Chelsea (H) 0-1
Burnley (H) 2-1
Southampton (A) 0-0
Bournemouth (A) 2-0
Leicester (H) 2-1
Hull City (H) 0-0
Barcelona (H) 0-2
Man U (A) 2-3
Swansea City (H) 1-2
Spurs (A) 0-0

12 Games 3 Wins 5 Draws 4 Defeats in all competitions

10 Points out of 24 Pointsin the league

That's our form since the Liverpool game, truly dreadful, so yeah a draw yesterday was a poor result in the grand scheme of things, a win was a must and seeing as we are now 8 points behind Leicester with an inferior goal difference I'd say we're as good as out of it. City who have been dreadful all season as well if they win their game in hand would also leapfrog us which just shows how bad we've been.

Wenger just has to go.

The most unforgivable collapse of them all.

Just do one, Wenger.

[crashley]

The ref was ridiculous in not sending Dier off though. Coquelin's was a blatant second yellow but why wasn't that?

Because... "thats the sort of 'luck' you get as the home team"

The ref didn't want to be torn apart by a bunch of snivelling primordial apes upon his escape from that concrete rectum.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I'm not going to PEDdle any theories, but Leicester have used 18 players all season and had no injuries...


perhaps we should be nicking their medical team

[Ollie the Optimist]

That's our form since the Liverpool game, truly dreadful, so yeah a draw yesterday was a poor result in the grand scheme of things, a win was a must and seeing as we are now 8 points behind Leicester with an inferior goal difference I'd say we're as good as out of it. City who have been dreadful all season as well if they win their game in hand would also leapfrog us which just shows how bad we've been.

Wenger just has to go.

I agree that Wenger has to go, if we had lost yesterday, I would have hoped he'd be gone by the hull game. However, one small glimmer of hope is that when city won their first title, they were 8 points behind with 6 games (i think, it wasn't many thats for sure) to go and they somehow won it. I'm not saying that means we will, but we have the players and i'd say of the three sides we have the easier fixtures. Spurs have the hardest and Leicester have some tough ones left too.

I agree that in the grand scheme of things, we had to win yesterday, but in the context of the match, a point was a very good one given what happened. Spurs might be only 5 points behind rather then 8, but we've seen them choke before when even further ahead and that was for 4th place! There are a few twists and turns left in this race, i don't think we will win it, but you never know.

Whatever happens though, Wenger should not be manager next season.

[milla]

I thought Sanchez' goal showed that the guy is wasted down the left, his run in behind was so good and his first time finish caught their GK by surprise. He should be playing either behind Giroud on the right. teams have clocke don to him on the lft, he comes inside and either has a blocked shot or a cross that doesnt beat the first man. He is an explosive finisher and needs to play in the middle IMO.

Play him as a CF, he has the same build as Suarez and Aguero. He could definitely hack it. :coffee:

[Niall_Quinn]

Liverpool (A) 3-3
Stoke (A) 0-0
Chelsea (H) 0-1
Burnley (H) 2-1
Southampton (A) 0-0
Bournemouth (A) 2-0
Leicester (H) 2-1
Hull City (H) 0-0
Barcelona (H) 0-2
Man U (A) 2-3
Swansea City (H) 1-2
Spurs (A) 0-0

12 Games 3 Wins 5 Draws 4 Defeats in all competitions

10 Points out of 24 Pointsin the league

That's our form since the Liverpool game, truly dreadful, so yeah a draw yesterday was a poor result in the grand scheme of things, a win was a must and seeing as we are now 8 points behind Leicester with an inferior goal difference I'd say we're as good as out of it. City who have been dreadful all season as well if they win their game in hand would also leapfrog us which just shows how bad we've been.

Wenger just has to go.

And this was with our players returning from injury. Those last 5 minutes against Liverpool, this is when Wenger perfected the art of bottling. We'd been building up to it before that game, refusing to press on and stamp our authority on matches, preferring to go negative and settle for what we had. I suspect two factors contributed. One, we had Cech in goal so he thought he could abuse the fact, just another form of disrespecting the opponent which Wenger excels at. Second he'd failed to act in the transfer market, as usual, and the one key player who had somehow managed to grasp his fucked up boreball and make it work - Cazorla - had no like for like cover. Wilshere dead, Ramsey incapable, Rosicky of course dead, but these were the players Wenger decided could get him through a season despite their long established injury records. He'll say he got unlucky but that's like saying we don't need to spend in the transfer window because we have Diaby who can play there. Stupid.

Anyway, he bottled against an appalling Liverpool and so began the latest in a long line of Wenger engineered collapses. It's the regularity of these collapses that's the problem. Do it once and you can say okay, that's football, we'll learn. But Wenger doesn't learn anything useful. He'll learn the shitty stuff, like how to con the fans during a transfer window or how to target an individual and place the burden on him, leave it to that player to rescue something from a fatally flawed and underfunded system. But you collapse like this repeatedly and obviously there's a major problem. Even then you can just so okay, he's not a good manager. No need to go overboard, show a bit of respect, ask the guy to go.

Here's where the vitriol comes from though. Wenger is one of "them" not one of "us". He works for them. He makes them rich while scalping us. And he lies about it. That's where the growing hatred comes from. This is not a normal shit manager situation. This is something much worse. His negativity this season shows he's not in it to win a title, he's in it to secure revenue. We know that from his inactivity in the transfer window, from his long-standing refusal to add the few pieces we've needed to complete the squad. Form the arrogance and carelessness with which he bumbled his way through another CL campaign. Bare minimum on the pitch - maximum, lavish returns off it. And the lies. This is Wenger.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm not going to PEDdle any theories, but Leicester have used 18 players all season and had no injuries...


perhaps we should be nicking their medical team

Not the medical team - the coaches. You want to prevent the injuries in the first place. Anyway, it depends what you call an injury. Is a broken fingernail an injury? At Arsenal yes, at Leicester maybe no. Maybe the players are a bit less precious over there. All I know, is during an era where it was legitimate to kick the shit out of each other on a football pitch, Liverpool would win title after title with 14 players. So did Forest. There's an argument that modern footballers are highly tuned athletes. Okay, but I wonder what would happen if the our team from a decade ago went up against the current lot of pansy "highly tuned athletes"? Ouch.

[Niall_Quinn]

Play him as a CF, he has the same build as Suarez and Aguero. He could definitely hack it. :coffee:

Of course. But it' one of those smash you in the face obvious things that could never be considered. He's great in the air too. But I prefer him isolated on the wing, surrounded by opposition with his team mates standing there watching and doing fuck all.

[Marc Overmars]

I agree that Wenger has to go, if we had lost yesterday, I would have hoped he'd be gone by the hull game. However, one small glimmer of hope is that when city won their first title, they were 8 points behind with 6 games (i think, it wasn't many thats for sure) to go and they somehow won it. I'm not saying that means we will, but we have the players and i'd say of the three sides we have the easier fixtures. Spurs have the hardest and Leicester have some tough ones left too.

I agree that in the grand scheme of things, we had to win yesterday, but in the context of the match, a point was a very good one given what happened. Spurs might be only 5 points behind rather then 8, but we've seen them choke before when even further ahead and that was for 4th place! There are a few twists and turns left in this race, i don't think we will win it, but you never know.

Whatever happens though, Wenger should not be manager next season.

It's us. It's fair to say we always know.

[Gubby Allen]

Liverpool (A) 3-3
Stoke (A) 0-0
Chelsea (H) 0-1
Burnley (H) 2-1
Southampton (A) 0-0
Bournemouth (A) 2-0
Leicester (H) 2-1
Hull City (H) 0-0
Barcelona (H) 0-2
Man U (A) 2-3
Swansea City (H) 1-2
Spurs (A) 0-0

12 Games 3 Wins 5 Draws 4 Defeats in all competitions

10 Points out of 24 Pointsin the league

That's our form since the Liverpool game, truly dreadful, so yeah a draw yesterday was a poor result in the grand scheme of things, a win was a must and seeing as we are now 8 points behind Leicester with an inferior goal difference I'd say we're as good as out of it. City who have been dreadful all season as well if they win their game in hand would also leapfrog us which just shows how bad we've been.

Wenger just has to go.

There's 9 league games there. That's 10 points out of 27.

Played 9, points 10 can't be too much different from the form of Norwich and Sunderland. Even Villa have probably got 5 or 6 points in that time.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Wenger does have to go but not because of yesterday.

Well yes and no

He has to go because of yesterday because we are not showing that kind of performance consistently

Yesterday I thought we countered Spurs high pressing game well, and towards the end of the first half they looked tired and might well have punished them with a second goal.

Wenger was too passive in not bringing on another defensive midfielder when we went down to ten men and that contributed to us conceeding two goals in quick succession.

[Özim]

There's 9 league games there. That's 10 points out of 27.

Played 9, points 10 can't be too much different from the form of Norwich and Sunderland. Even Villa have probably got 5 or 6 points in that time.

My mistake it's even worse than I thought.

[Marc Overmars]

4 wins from 12 since we beat City I think. Absolutely shit.

[AFC Leveller]

Liverpool (A) 3-3
Stoke (A) 0-0
Chelsea (H) 0-1
Burnley (H) 2-1
Southampton (A) 0-0
Bournemouth (A) 2-0
Leicester (H) 2-1
Hull City (H) 0-0
Barcelona (H) 0-2
Man U (A) 2-3
Swansea City (H) 1-2
Spurs (A) 0-0

12 Games 3 Wins 5 Draws 4 Defeats in all competitions

10 Points out of 24 Pointsin the league

That's our form since the Liverpool game, truly dreadful, so yeah a draw yesterday was a poor result in the grand scheme of things, a win was a must and seeing as we are now 8 points behind Leicester with an inferior goal difference I'd say we're as good as out of it. City who have been dreadful all season as well if they win their game in hand would also leapfrog us which just shows how bad we've been.

Wenger just has to go.

27 points not 24, we have dropped 17 points from a possible 27, simply unforgivable.

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dub0rV0QuR4

Hard to watch this sort of pig shit thick behaviour and recall how I used to get involved in it. Would die of embarrassment if I found myself in it now. This is what apes look like when they are fighting over territory. Leaping up and down, screeching, arms swinging. And football today, when all fans are having the piss taken out of them. Why would you fight? It's punishing enough trying to watch the football.

[mastermind84]

I've never understood why he's never been given a run there.


I thought Sanchez' goal showed that the guy is wasted down the left, his run in behind was so good and his first time finish caught their GK by surprise. He should be playing either behind Giroud on the right. teams have clocke don to him on the lft, he comes inside and either has a blocked shot or a cross that doesnt beat the first man. He is an explosive finisher and needs to play in the middle IMO.
It's Sanchez's fault

He a semi thick footballer.


He could be dynamic on the left, right, or at center forward if he stayed away from the build up and stopped chasing the ball. It's why Barcelona got rid of him, imo.

That goal is another example of that but Sanchez is compelled to always run to the ball instead of just staying on the shoulder of the last defender and waiting for the ball.

If you want to get on Wenger, get on him for not instructing that of him.


Wenger tried him at CF last season in 2 or 3 matches in the autumn and he couldn't stop dropping deep and messing up in the build up.

[Özim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dub0rV0QuR4

Hard to watch this sort of pig shit thick behaviour and recall how I used to get involved in it. Would die of embarrassment if I found myself in it now. This is what apes look like when they are fighting over territory. Leaping up and down, screeching, arms swinging. And football today, when all fans are having the piss taken out of them. Why would you fight? It's punishing enough trying to watch the football.

What an utter embarrassment can't believe you still get planks like that going to football today.

[selassie]

Liverpool (A) 3-3
Stoke (A) 0-0
Chelsea (H) 0-1
Burnley (H) 2-1
Southampton (A) 0-0
Bournemouth (A) 2-0
Leicester (H) 2-1
Hull City (H) 0-0
Barcelona (H) 0-2
Man U (A) 2-3
Swansea City (H) 1-2
Spurs (A) 0-0

12 Games 3 Wins 5 Draws 4 Defeats in all competitions

10 Points out of 24 Pointsin the league

That's our form since the Liverpool game, truly dreadful, so yeah a draw yesterday was a poor result in the grand scheme of things, a win was a must and seeing as we are now 8 points behind Leicester with an inferior goal difference I'd say we're as good as out of it. City who have been dreadful all season as well if they win their game in hand would also leapfrog us which just shows how bad we've been.

Wenger just has to go.

It's basically cost us the title, last week pretty cemented it with 0 points from the 2 games, even 1 win and a draw and we'd have been still in with a shout, 2 wins which we all expected given the opposition and teams they put out in both games would have put us right in the mix.

It's over now though, we're not catching Leicester, they are consistent, very rarely lose/drop points, we are the opposite, inconsistent and drop points a lot hence why we are in this position.

[Power n Glory]

It's Sanchez's fault

He a semi thick footballer.


He could be dynamic on the left, right, or at center forward if he stayed away from the build up and stopped chasing the ball. It's why Barcelona got rid of him, imo.

That goal is another example of that but Sanchez is compelled to always run to the ball instead of just staying on the shoulder of the last defender and waiting for the ball.

If you want to get on Wenger, get on him for not instructing that of him.


Wenger tried him at CF last season in 2 or 3 matches in the autumn and he couldn't stop dropping deep and messing up in the build up.

What you describe is how Podolski and Theo play on the wings. Hardly any touches on the ball and playing in the final third focusing on runs. It's not a good idea at all.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I barely see it these days. Had some fucker pull a knife on me at a
Arsenal tube station when I went to my first NLD, but that was a one off for me.

[AFC Leveller]

Leicester have only lost 3 times all season, they are relentless and hard to beat.

Hope they win it.

[mastermind84]

What you describe is how Podolski and Theo play on the wings. Hardly any touches on the ball and playing in the final third focusing on runs. It's not a good idea at all.
The difference is that Sanchez is a much better footballer than those two. (Neither Theo or Podolski are that good technically as well. Much better dribbler which helps out)

Also he has shown many times that he can score a lot of goals playing that way. His hat trick at Leicester this season was that. Wenger mentioned last season that his best performance of last season was the brace he got at Hull, where he didn't chase the ball.

Barcelona they wanted him to kill in the final 3rd but stay out the build up.

Systemically our set up is a problem as we don't have a ball carrier to knit things together but we have a more dynamic attack when Sanchez stays away from our build up.

We do not need Sanchez taking up the space that should be Özil's and trying to do his job, yet Alexis cannot help himself.

[Power n Glory]

But you say Sanchez is semi thick. Playing off the ball isn't easy. Sanchez is just off form. Nothing to panic about.

[mastermind84]

But you say Sanchez is semi thick. Playing off the ball isn't easy. Sanchez is just off form. Nothing to panic about.

I felt this way about Sanchez last season. I say semi thick because he can make great runs, but he thinks more of his ability as a creator than what is reality. He would be a more devastating player if he just got involved in the final 3rd. Would stretch the field and make things easier for himself. Let Özil do the work for him. Sanchez just does not appreciate space and id have thought Wenger would try and help with that.

[fakeyank]

Wenger does have to go but not because of yesterday.

:gp:

His sell by date: 01/01/2009

[Letters]

I barely see it these days. Had some fucker pull a knife on me at a
Arsenal tube station when I went to my first NLD, but that was a one off for me.

Sorry about that, but you did keep teasing me about my height :sulk:

[Letters]

:gp:

His sell by date: 01/01/2009

Nah. After the last couple of seasons he deserved a last crack at the title. But failing to win it this year when the credible alternatives are Spurs and Leicester is ridiculous.

[adzzzbatch]

I barely see it these days. Had some fucker pull a knife on me at a
Arsenal tube station when I went to my first NLD, but that was a one off for me.

At the derby before last, walking up the ramp to get out of Arsenal tube, there was a large group of sp*rs fans shouting abuse at gooners even in little kids faces. No police in sight. We all ignored them, then they tried to start a scuffle when we got outside, but the police soon got in and separated the two sets of fans.

[Chippy]

If you drop Coquelin. You get Flamini or Arteta. Do you really want that?. OUr players suffer from bad management that makes them do stupid things.
He just made a bad decision, you can't drop him for that.

[Letters]

Nancy Reagan :rose:

Not Ramsey's best effort but he'll take it.

[Munchies]

Arsenal's points in the PL after 29 games:

2015/16 - 52 points
2014/15 - 57 points
2013/14 - 62 points

Progress :bow:

[fakeyank]

Arsene Wenger :bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

Arsenal's points in the PL after 29 games:

2015/16 - 52 points
2014/15 - 57 points
2013/14 - 62 points

Progress :bow:

Two wins and 6 points against Leicester, bitch. If we hadn't been unlucky in all the other games and if the fans hadn't let the club down so badly we'd have already won this. Morally the title is ours.

[Marc Overmars]

The one season where the bar is set low enough for us to have a chance and we can't even perform at par.

[GP]

This season has been a car crash. An unforgivably disastrous performance.

Wholesale changes needed for next season.

[Globalgunner]

The last 10 years have been a disaster, stagnation masquerading as near success
2% away from domination may now be 10%

:trophy::trophy:
Yes 2 FA cups, I know Letters

[Letters]

Disaster :lol:

[IBK]

Arsenal's points in the PL after 29 games:

2015/16 - 52 points
2014/15 - 57 points
2013/14 - 62 points

Progress :bow:

...and the depressing thing is that even when some posters were busy pointing out earlier in the season that we were achieving 'par' - the signs were that this was wishful thinking as regarded the performances on the pitch. We have pissed away the best opportunity we have had for years to win the league, and there's nothing to suggest that things are going to improve going forwards.

[Niall_Quinn]

Disaster :lol:

We've achieved precisely nothing intended from a project designed to propel us to the top of the European game. Nothing. Except riches for the owners and past owners of course (mustn't overlook that massive success). We are further away from a CL final than ever. We no longer routinely secure the winners or runners-up placing in the domestic league. Our once lauded style of football has vanished. After all the effort and the sacrifice of the fans we're actually behind where we were before this project began and with no signs at all we are ready to move forward.

If this is not disaster then what should it be? Epic failure? Pointless waste? Legalised robbery?

[Letters]

I doubt we'd have stayed in the top 4 had we stayed at Highbury. The fact that the billionaires rolled in ans bought up trophies left, right and centre just at the time when the stadium move did somewhat hamper us is not Wenger's fault. That said, we should have some trophies in that era. Now we have the money to compete there were some promising signs but Wenger has failed to push us on and for that he should be sacked. But he'll leave us with a squad which should be able to compete with a few additions and enough money to allow us to stay competitive.
Things could have gone better but they could certainly have gone a lot worse.

[Niall_Quinn]

I doubt we'd have stayed in the top 4 had we stayed at Highbury. The fact that the billionaires rolled in ans bought up trophies left, right and centre just at the time when the stadium move did somewhat hamper us is not Wenger's fault. That said, we should have some trophies in that era. Now we have the money to compete there were some promising signs but Wenger has failed to push us on and for that he should be sacked. But he'll leave us with a squad which should be able to compete with a few additions and enough money to allow us to stay competitive.
Things could have gone better but they could certainly have gone a lot worse.

You're still going to use the money excuse then? Even after this season?

What Leicester and West Ham and even Watford have shown us is if you give an outsider just a tiny bit more of the pie then they can do great things. Well we may not have had as much cash as the chavs and the gypos but we certainly had more of the pie than Leicester City, and for a lot longer than a single season too.

The money excuse is gone. Exposed. Dead.

What has top 4 ever actually done for us, btw? Has the CL been prestigious or embarrassing for us? Yes I know we got the cash, but how much of that was spent at the key moments when we could have really improved? When we were just a little but short? So many transfer windows.

Wenger kept us in the top 4 but consistently failed to do what it takes to go on and at least try to win that competition. A decade ago we made the final with players like Henry and Vieira in the team. Ten years on, what exactly does this Top Four Trophy give us? It has attracted the likes of Ozil and Alexis, but what have THEY given us?

I'm not trying to blame the players or anything else except one thing. One person and we know who it is. No more excuses for him.

[IBK]

You're still going to use the money excuse then? Even after this season?

What Leicester and West Ham and even Watford have shown us is if you give an outsider just a tiny bit more of the pie then they can do great things. Well we may not have had as much cash as the chavs and the gypos but we certainly had more of the pie than Leicester City, and for a lot longer than a single season too.

The money excuse is gone. Exposed. Dead.

What has top 4 ever actually done for us, btw? Has the CL been prestigious or embarrassing for us? Yes I know we got the cash, but how much of that was spent at the key moments when we could have really improved? When we were just a little but short? So many transfer windows.

Wenger kept us in the top 4 but consistently failed to do what it takes to go on and at least try to win that competition. A decade ago we made the final with players like Henry and Vieira in the team. Ten years on, what exactly does this Top Four Trophy give us? It has attracted the likes of Ozil and Alexis, but what have THEY given us?

I'm not trying to blame the players or anything else except one thing. One person and we know who it is. No more excuses for him.

I reckon that over time greater resources will translate into greater success. But what we have seen this season is that this is not necessarily the case season by season, and the fact that we have failed to exploit the underperformance of the big spenders tells you everything you need to know about the real reasons for our lack of success.

[Marc Overmars]

This season is undoubtedly a (relatively speaking) disaster. To the point where even if a miracle happened and we won it, half the fanbase would probably still want him gone.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Whoever is manager after Wenger we risk having the same problem again if they are allowed the same autonomy as Wenger
Wenger is far from being unique in his flaws, the problem is that he is allowed too much responsibility. The next manager must first of all be totally beholden to Ivan Gazidis not the majority shareholder.

They must be part of a large coaching team, they decide who they want to buy but it should be the board not the manager who worries about how much is spent and the resale value, if the manager wants to award a player a new contract it should be a negotiation team working with the board that determines what contract that player is deserving of.

Statistically we know that most of the time it's the money spent rather than who the manager is that determines sucesss.

It's the biggest factor, our frustration with Wenger aside we know full well that Pellegrini has not been instrumental in what city have won. Mourinho is a factor at Chelsea but only because the instability at the club makes success difficult without someone who is a specialist at walking in and delivering instant short term success.

But Arsenal has become Wengers personal fiefdom when he should be a club servant.

[IBK]

Whoever is manager after Wenger we risk having the same problem again if they are allowed the same autonomy as Wenger
Wenger is far from being unique in his flaws, the problem is that he is allowed too much responsibility. The next manager must first of all be totally beholden to Ivan Gazidis not the majority shareholder.

They must be part of a large coaching team, they decide who they want to buy but it should be the board not the manager who worries about how much is spent and the resale value, if the manager wants to award a player a new contract it should be a negotiation team working with the board that determines what contract that player is deserving of.

Statistically we know that most of the time it's the money spent rather than who the manager is that determines sucesss.

It's the biggest factor, our frustration with Wenger aside we know full well that Pellegrini has not been instrumental in what city have won. Mourinho is a factor at Chelsea but only because the instability at the club makes success difficult without someone who is a specialist at walking in and delivering instant short term success.

But Arsenal has become Wengers personal fiefdom when he should be a club servant.

The big problem is going to be the transition from a club where one man seems to dominate in every aspect of the club to one where there are different, and effective functions. I have real doubts that our supine board; disinterested owner and a chief exec who hasn't been able to function autonomously have the wherewithal to manage this.

[Letters]

You're still going to use the money excuse then? Even after this season?

What Leicester and West Ham and even Watford have shown us is if you give an outsider just a tiny bit more of the pie then they can do great things. Well we may not have had as much cash as the chavs and the gypos but we certainly had more of the pie than Leicester City, and for a lot longer than a single season too.

The money excuse is gone. Exposed. Dead.

What has top 4 ever actually done for us, btw? Has the CL been prestigious or embarrassing for us? Yes I know we got the cash, but how much of that was spent at the key moments when we could have really improved? When we were just a little but short? So many transfer windows.

Wenger kept us in the top 4 but consistently failed to do what it takes to go on and at least try to win that competition. A decade ago we made the final with players like Henry and Vieira in the team. Ten years on, what exactly does this Top Four Trophy give us? It has attracted the likes of Ozil and Alexis, but what have THEY given us?

I'm not trying to blame the players or anything else except one thing. One person and we know who it is. No more excuses for him.

So 10+ years where the 3 highest spending clubs have mopped up every title going and a one off season shows that the 10 years were just a fluke? Neither Chelsea or City had won a title for what, 40 years? They start spending a benefactor's money and suddenly they're champions. Co-incidence? Money and success have been highly correlated, I don't need to argue that, look at where the trophies have ended up.

What Leicester are doing this season is inexplicable, and brilliant. I hope they win it. What they're doing shouldn't be possible in the modern game. They've shown it is possible, but that doesn't mean the general point that there is a correlation between spending big and achieving success is invalid. It clearly has been. You and many others have called for Wenger to sign big players. Why? If the 'money excuse' is just that, an excuse, then how will that help?

It's interesting that the same people who are saying that what Leicester are doing shows that the money thing is just an excuse are also saying we should finish above them because we have spent so much more than them :blink:. I've no idea how you hold those two thoughts in your head at the same time.

Wenger's record in the CL is indefensible but what it has done for us, apart from the money, is help us attract players like Sanchez and Ozil. I'd rather be in there that not.

[Niall_Quinn]

So 10+ years where the 3 highest spending clubs have mopped up every title going and a one off season shows that the 10 years were just a fluke? Neither Chelsea or City had won a title for what, 40 years? They start spending a benefactor's money and suddenly they're champions. Co-incidence? Money and success have been highly correlated, I don't need to argue that, look at where the trophies have ended up.

What Leicester are doing this season is inexplicable, and brilliant. I hope they win it. What they're doing shouldn't be possible in the modern game. They've shown it is possible, but that doesn't mean the general point that there is a correlation between spending big and achieving success is invalid. It clearly has been. You and many others have called for Wenger to sign big players. Why? If the 'money excuse' is just that, an excuse, then how will that help?

It's interesting that the same people who are saying that what Leicester are doing shows that the money thing is just an excuse are also saying we should finish above them because we have spent so much more than them :blink:. I've no idea how you hold those two thoughts in your head at the same time.

Wenger's record in the CL is indefensible but what it has done for us, apart from the money, is help us attract players like Sanchez and Ozil. I'd rather be in there that not.

Who said the money is not important? You did, when putting words in my mouth as always.

I said the money could no longer be used as an excuse for Wenger's abject failure (in football terms). He's supposed to be a top manager. He's got a huge amount of resources, not as much as the dopers that's true but still huge by comparison to a club like Leicester, he's had a stream of talented players come through the club, he's had a decade to deliver. Zero titles, zero Euro cups. Leicester, in the first year where there's a bit more cash (but still a fraction of Wenger's budget) hire the right man to do the right job with the right players and the right mentality. A one-off? Most likely. Inexplicable? Impossible? Hardly. Are we now refusing to believe our own eyes such is the desperate need to defend Wenger failures?

If he's a top manager then why, in every one of those 10 years, has he failed to deliver? 20 opportunities and he's 0 from 20. That's a 0% success rate. He has failed 100% of the time. Isn't this the criteria by which any "top" manager should be judged? Or when judging a manager in light of the evidence available, should we seek out as many excuses as possible when judging his 0% success rate and 100% failure rate?

But even if you wash away the last decade (which is your constant preference), finally this season (for whatever combination of reasons) we can remove money from the equation. The gypos, chavs, utd, all collapsed. Their money meaningless in the context of the league positions. So ignore them, they are gone.

What is left?

A few weeks ago Arsenal was the richest club challenging Leicester (a comparative pauper) and the spuds (a wealthy club but not in Arsenal's class) for the top spot. Arsenal with Ozil and Alexis and Cech and a host of talent that should have been able to mount a serious challenge based on football factors alone - because the money is gone now remember? Or we can say it's gone but in reality and with respect to the 3 clubs in contention now we're the big money club.

What has happened?

Answer. What has always happened under the management of Wenger. We have collapsed. So you take the seasons where the dopers are running away with it, you take the season where the dopers have collapsed. There is a constant. You know what it is.

You object to the word "disaster"? It may not be a disaster for you, but for Wenger it has exposed him completely. If he doesn't view this season as a disaster then that's just another in a long list of reasons to shove him out the door.

[Letters]

If he's a top manager then why, in every one of those 10 years, has he failed to deliver? 20 opportunities and he's 0 from 20. That's a 0% success rate. He has failed 100% of the time. Isn't this the criteria by which any "top" manager should be judged?
And yet, 2 years ago, when we'd just won the FA Cup - which was our first cup in 9 years and you're now dismissing as a 'minor' trophy' - you reacted with "good stuff" when Wenger signed a new contract.
Why? It had still been 8 years of 'failure to deliver'. Why was one 'minor trophy' enough? And the answer was it hadn't been 8 years of abject failure and you knew that.
The money had clearly been a factor and while we should have won more in that period it seemed with the new money that things were on the up, we'd signed Ozil, we'd won the Cup, onwards and upwards.

The most of the rest of your post is about our failure this season which I've already agreed he deserves the sack for. The money is there now, we've been signing a level of player who should push us on, this season in particular the title was an open goal and, fittingly given our strikeforce, we've missed it. Wenger should be sacked for the last 2 years where we haven't pushed on, not for the last 10.

[AFC Leveller]

"I have no problem to cope with everything but I find that a bit boring in the end. I always have to convince you that I am good enough. I worked for 35 years at the top level.

"What I find just boring is always sitting here after 19 years to face, 'Do you think you are good enough?' If I am not, somebody will tell me."

"Look, I have worked here for 19, 20 years and I'm always sitting here having to justify that I'm good enough to do the job," he said at his news conference ahead of an FA Cup fifth-round replay at Hull

[Globalgunner]

I doubt we'd have stayed in the top 4 had we stayed at Highbury. The fact that the billionaires rolled in ans bought up trophies left, right and centre just at the time when the stadium move did somewhat hamper us is not Wenger's fault. That said, we should have some trophies in that era. Now we have the money to compete there were some promising signs but Wenger has failed to push us on and for that he should be sacked. But he'll leave us with a squad which should be able to compete with a few additions and enough money to allow us to stay competitive.
Things could have gone better but they could certainly have gone a lot worse.

You doubt if we would have stayed in the top 4?. Where relatively speaking have Spurs and Pool and Everton been pre 2004 and now?. Only Pool can be said to have regressed and been usurped by the new money teams....... On second thought, in actual fact I agree with you. If we had stayed at Highbury we would have dropped out of the top 4 and long been overtaken by said Spuds and Liverpool because the dunce in charge of this club needs at least 2 world class players to save his bacon each season just to stay in the top 4. He has always had at least 1 in the form of Fabregas, Arshavin, RVP etc. If we had still been buying sub £20m players like before at Highbury, we would be wallowing in mid table obscurity by now, conversely maybe the muppet would have left or would have had to come up with a new spectrum of lame excuses.

If we had stayed at Highbury the moustached Vampire may also not have bought the club..... What is that Jane Austen quote about Highbury again?

[Kano]

"I have no problem to cope with everything but I find that a bit boring in the end. I always have to convince you that I am good enough. I worked for 35 years at the top level.

"What I find just boring is always sitting here after 19 years to face, 'Do you think you are good enough?' If I am not, somebody will tell me."

"Look, I have worked here for 19, 20 years and I'm always sitting here having to justify that I'm good enough to do the job," he said at his news conference ahead of an FA Cup fifth-round replay at Hull
I don't doubt for a minute that he works his arse off, cares deeply for the club, desperately wants to succeed and try to analyse things when they go wrong.

But it's clear that he cannot analyse himself so well anymore and his best isn't good enough to do anything other than maintain the status quo. That is key part of any self-analysis he cannot face up to.

[Letters]

You doubt if we would have stayed in the top 4?. Where relatively speaking have Spurs and Pool and Everton been pre 2004 and now?. Only Pool can be said to have regressed and been usurped by the new money teams....... On second thought, in actual fact I agree with you. If we had stayed at Highbury we would have dropped out of the top 4 and long been overtaken by said Spuds and Liverpool because the dunce in charge of this club needs at least 2 world class players to save his bacon each season just to stay in the top 4. He has always had at least 1 in the form of Fabregas, Arshavin, RVP etc. If we had still been buying sub £20m players like before at Highbury, we would be wallowing in mid table obscurity by now, conversely maybe the muppet would have left or would have had to come up with a new spectrum of lame excuses.

If we had stayed at Highbury the moustached Vampire may also not have bought the club..... What is that Jane Austen quote about Highbury again?

You lose points for not calling Wenger a c***

[Niall_Quinn]

And yet, 2 years ago, when we'd just won the FA Cup - which was our first cup in 9 years and you're now dismissing as a 'minor' trophy' - you reacted with "good stuff" when Wenger signed a new contract.
Why? It had still been 8 years of 'failure to deliver'. Why was one 'minor trophy' enough? And the answer was it hadn't been 8 years of abject failure and you knew that.
The money had clearly been a factor and while we should have won more in that period it seemed with the new money that things were on the up, we'd signed Ozil, we'd won the Cup, onwards and upwards.

The most of the rest of your post is about our failure this season which I've already agreed he deserves the sack for. The money is there now, we've been signing a level of player who should push us on, this season in particular the title was an open goal and, fittingly given our strikeforce, we've missed it. Wenger should be sacked for the last 2 years where we haven't pushed on, not for the last 10.

Didn't we do this yesterday? Does hitting reset disqualify what we've already discussed?

2 years ago we were supposedly coming out of the alleged financial restrictions Wenger has voluntarily accepted. 2 years ago we'd finally managed to land a trophy, silencing the league wide mockery that had accompanied every other trophy challenge that went before. We were no longer a laughing stock and it looked like we had money and Wenger would finally get a chance to show what he could really do with resources at his disposal. Most fans were on board, pretty optimistic, waiting for the future that had been promised prior to the stadium move. These were the days when the money excuse was still very effective because there was no conclusive evidence against which to test it. Now we were going to use money to level the field on which Wenger had previously been disadvantaged.

Two years on we all know what has happened. Wenger has actually done worse. In the last 2 years many fans have snapped into the harsh reality of the main and overwhelming reason for our failures on the pitch. How could they not? The truth was already dawning before this season kicked off. This season has settled matters beyond dispute. Wenger stands hopelessly exposed. Nobody believes his bullshit any more, well almost nobody.

This season has provided the long missing evidence that can be used to judge the real reasons for our failure over a decade. You say no, everything was understandable prior to this season but now some terrible anomaly has occurred. I say that doesn't compute, because the terrible anomaly looks identical to all those seasons gone before. Before you meandered off into every distraction you could muster I said the money excuse had finally been blown away. You say, oh no, that's not the case at all. This must mean you believe something radical has occurred this season, some significant reason why Wenger has so desperately underperformed.

If we stick with the now discredited idea he failed to deliver in prior seasons because he was financially disadvantaged, then what's the excuse this season when the money factor has been removed? And why does this season look the same as all the others?

[Globalgunner]

I don't doubt for a minute that he works his arse off, cares deeply for the club, desperately wants to succeed and try to analyse things when they go wrong.

But it's clear that he cannot analyse himself so well anymore and his best isn't good enough to do anything other than maintain the status quo. That is key part of any self-analysis he cannot face up to.


Funny that in 25 years Fergie never faced the same questions....Why because he was his own harshest critic, always striving to beat the rest, to change, to adopt new ideas. Not Le Prof....he knows everything apparently.

[Niall_Quinn]

Funny that in 25 years Fergie never faced the same questions....Why because he was his own harshest critic, always striving to beat the rest, to change, to adopt new ideas. Not Le Prof....he knows everything apparently.

Are you questioning Wenger? That's boring. You shouldn't do it. You should get your wallet out and support the team.

[Letters]

Funny that in 25 years Fergie never faced the same questions....Why because he was his own harshest critic, always striving to beat the rest, to change, to adopt new ideas. Not Le Prof....he knows everything apparently.

:lol: Utd went a couple of years without winning a trophy and fans were screaming for his head back in the day.

[Kano]

Funny that in 25 years Fergie never faced the same questions....Why because he was his own harshest critic, always striving to beat the rest, to change, to adopt new ideas. Not Le Prof....he knows everything apparently.

No, what you're missing here is the ability to self analyse sufficently. I'm sure Wenger does. Most humans doing their job do that. Its stupid to think otherwise.

But how effective that analysis becomes is the key part. Fergie I'm sure asked himself enough difficult questions to remain on top. Wenger probably doesn't go far enough or doesn't rely enough on people around him enough to face some home truths. Whereas Ferige probably did do that.

[selassie]

:lol: Utd went a couple of years without winning a trophy and fans were screaming for his head back in the day.

And then he won stuff again because he adapted.

I watched the presser yesterday with Wenger and it was genuinely quite amazing what lengths he went to absolve himself. Not only that but his whole demeanor was one of "how dare anybody question me or what I have done in the game".

[Letters]

This season has provided the long missing evidence that can be used to judge the real reasons for our failure over a decade. You say no, everything was understandable prior to this season but now some terrible anomaly has occurred.
Hang on, now who is putting words into whose mouth? You picked me up on that.

The new money has yielded some results, it's yielded Ozil, Sanchez and Cech and two FA Cups. It was a good start but he's failed to push us on and if he can't win the league this season then I doubt he ever will. So yeah, he should go for that, not because of the period before that when you agreed he earned a new contract.
He deserved a chance to push us on. He's failed to and so he should go. But he's failed to because he has flaws (as will the next bloke of course). And those flaws were always there. But when his fitness methods and knowledge of the European game meant we were better than everyone else it masked those flaws. Now other clubs have caught up and overtaken us, the edge Wenger once had is no longer there and he's not been able to step up. But he has his strengths too, I doubt many managers could have overseen a stadium move that complex and kept us top 4 with a (relatively) limited budget (whether self-imposed or not). He'll leave us with a very good squad and with plenty of money in the bank to ensure a successful future if the new guy spends it wisely. The last 10 years have not been particularly successful but neither have they been an unmitigated failure or disaster.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

To be fair yes Ferguson did adapt and change but when would he have ever admitted that to the press

Wenger isn't going to admit he's fucked up publically even if he thought that was the case.

[Letters]

And then he won stuff again because he adapted.
Yes. He was better than Wenger. I was merely responding to the assertion that Fergie was never questioned by the fans. He was.

[IBK]

No, what you're missing here is the ability to self analyse sufficently. I'm sure Wenger does. Most humans doing their job do that. Its stupid to think otherwise.

But how effective that analysis becomes is the key part. Fergie I'm sure asked himself enough difficult questions to remain on top. Wenger probably doesn't go far enough or doesn't rely enough on people around him enough to face some home truths. Whereas Ferige probably did do that.

I think that the problem is Wenger's criteria for success. Seems to me that he has lost sight of the main issue. So he focusses on consistency of league position over a period; financial stewardship and footballing 'purity' and sees his performance in this regard as justifying his existence, and neither he nor anyone else focusses on whether his methods are effective enough to win things any more.

[selassie]

Yes. He was better than Wenger. I was merely responding to the assertion that Fergie was never questioned by the fans. He was.

Fair do's. I personally think Wenger could and should have done more over the past what 10 seasons and should be judged over a longer time frame than the last 2 seasons, money plays a part in success and there is no denying Wenger has significantly strengthened the squad with the world class additions, but as you rightly said his flaws, which have been there from day one are still manifesting themselves. Given that we're discussing this I think it's highly appropriate to discuss Wenger's performance over a time period longer than 2 seasons.

It's not as black and white as Wenger has failed over 10 years or whatever it is, but you could argue that he could and should have won more over the years. Even when we were financially handicapped and some of that has been severely questioned as to whether that was self imposed by Wenger himself.

TBF I was calling for Wenger's head around 4 or 5 seasons ago, my calls have just got louder!

[Letters]

Agree about the "purity" thing. He's trying to recreate Barca but doesn't have the players to do it.

[Kano]

I think that the problem is Wenger's criteria for success. Seems to me that he has lost sight of the main issue. So he focusses on consistency of league position over a period; financial stewardship and footballing 'purity' and sees his performance in this regard as justifying his existence, and neither he nor anyone else focusses on whether his methods are effective enough to win things any more.
I think that's right but in an ideal world I think Wenger's philosophy isn't so bad. He is right to say that the pursuit of ultimate, glorified, singular success has sent the world crazy and that ties into a wider anti-neobiberal arguement. Success in your personal or wokring life isn't solely defined by being the absolute best at what you do. There are many defining factors to gauge happiness and achievement in that sense. That is the basis of his belief, or at least the argument he poses to defend his position.

But Wenger doesn't work in that world. And the simple matter is that if he doesn't like the expectation or the questioning, then he has to make the decision to leave. Because it won't ease up, even if he reaches the very top again. Success and failure will only intensify it, either way. Football clubs taking in such a level of fans money and reaping such huge financial rewards are expected to achieve the ultimate. Nothing else will do in modern sport. Right or wrong, that's the way it is. So if it doesn't match his personal philosophy and the questioning of that dements him, he only has one option left.

[Letters]

Fair do's. I personally think Wenger could and should have done more over the past what 10 seasons and should be judged over a longer time frame than the last 2 seasons, money plays a part in success and there is no denying Wenger has significantly strengthened the squad with the world class additions, but as you rightly said his flaws, which have been there from day one are still manifesting themselves. Given that we're discussing this I think it's highly appropriate to discuss Wenger's performance over a time period longer than 2 seasons.

It's not as black and white as Wenger has failed over 10 years or whatever it is, but you could argue that he could and should have won more over the years. Even when we were financially handicapped and some of that has been severely questioned as to whether that was self imposed by Wenger himself.

TBF I was calling for Wenger's head around 4 or 5 seasons ago, my calls have just got louder!

I don't disagree that he should be judged over a longer period. Well, he should be judged over his whole career with us.
Although the billionaires muscling in right at the time we were somewhat hamstrung by the new stadium and poor sponsorship deals was a factor - I actually think he'd have won a title or two in other circumstances but we'll never know - I do agree that there were times he could and should have done more. He did well to keep us in the top 4, he did badly not to win any trophies.
IMO he should be judged differently now though. We have a new financial muscle, it's a myth that he's not used it at all. We've signed 2 big players, 3 if you include Cech, and had a significantly bigger net spend than we'd had the seasons prior to that.
It's yielded a couple of FA Cups and that was a promising sign but we really needed to push on. He arguably should have been sacked last year, IMO the retention of the FA Cup earned him one more try but the failure to sustain a title challenge can't be defender. Especially as it's at the expense of Spurs and Leicester.
He needs to go but the last 10 years haven't been a complete disaster. They could have been better but they could have been a lot worse too and we're in good shape for whoever takes over.
I just hope he doesn't stay too much longer, it could get ugly if he doesn't go soon.