Should we be worried about our club's future?

[IBK]

So its pretty clear that we are seeing the last throes of the Wenger era. This season has shown us in stark relief that the manager does not have what it takes to build a title winning team - but more worryingly that we can no longer look at so-called financial doping to explain why our team cannot fulfill its potential to be winners. Having seen what we have seen, even if by some fluke Leicester and Sp*rs contrive to throw away their advantage over us, I think its fair to say that for a club of our size and ambitions the Premiership would be ours by default rather than on real merit. Even if Wenger doesn't walk and we suffer another couple of years of relative mediocrity there is nothing to suggest that, having had 10 years to plan winning the league and come up short, the manager will alter his approach - or indeed do anything substantive to address the perennial failings of his team.

But while I think most Gooners have come to the point where almost anything would be preferable to our endless cycle of under-achievement, is there any real cause for optimism about our short to mid term future? One of the reasons why it has taken so long for many fans to bite the bullet and wish Wenger gone is that top 4 and CL football is preferable to mid table obscurity. Wenger is fond of pointing out that he sees himself as a custodian of the club's future security - but in reality will he end up leaving a base that can and will be built on to achieve more than we have become accustomed to over the past decade?

As well as showing that proper coaching; tactics and getting the basics right remain the key to footballing success, this season (and in the case of Manure and Liverpool - the past few seasons) has also shown us that even with managers of repute, there is no quick fix when successful managers leave a club. Looking at Manure's decline and even identity crisis since SAF retired, it is difficult not to be apprehensive about what happens to us when Wenger goes. Manure were similar to us in terms of their manager's longevity, but Wenger is even more embedded in the very essence culture and workings of our club - to the extent that unlike SAF, we don't even have any tradition of proper coaches working under him. Could the power vacuum be even more destructive with our team?

And added to that, unlike Manure; Liverpool; Citeh or the Chavs we have an owner who does not even regard footballing success as essential to his business model - let alone as something to aspire to for its own sake. We have a 'board' in name only as far as decision making is concerned; and an impotent chief executive. Do we even trust them to appoint the right successor - let alone to invest the money to support him?

I think we can assume that our competitors will make managerial signings that reflect their ambitions. Citeh have already; Manure and the Chavs surely cannot get it wrong forever, and Liverpool have appointed someone who we all expected to be more of a success than he has been to date (which merely underlines the difficulty of achieving success from a broadly similar base to our own). With the TV money, our league is only getting ever more competetive - and we have seen this over the past season.

So - Wenger or not - do we feel that there is a cause for optimism that we will be successful going forwards, or is there every reason to be concerned that we will be the Liverpool of our own era - 26 years and counting since last winning the league? Thoughts?

[GP]

The club is set up to provide self-sustaining success going forward (mostly thanks to Wenger)

As long as his successor is selected carefully then there's nothing to worry about.

[Letters]

The club is set up to provide self-sustaining success going forward (mostly thanks to Wenger)

As long as his successor is selected carefully then there's nothing to worry about.

Pretty much.

[IBK]

The club is set up to provide self-sustaining success going forward (mostly thanks to Wenger)

As long as his successor is selected carefully then there's nothing to worry about.

I disagree. The club is, and has been set up for years to be self-sustaining - yes. But let's face it 'success' for our owner is a healthy balance sheet and cash reserves - not what we fans consider 'success' to be. Perhaps the owner and the so-called board will be motivated to try to ensure that we retain our seat at the CL table (or that we are in prime position for the European Super league of whatever), but is there any evidence that they will appoint and back a manager with the ability and hunger to be a true winner? And what's more, who is the person that they are most likely to turn to to identify Wenger's successor? If our manager's approach to player transfers is anything to go on - he is far more likely to nominate someone in his own mould - who subscribes to his own football philosophy - than anything else. A lack of ambition has characterised our club over the past decade - why assume that this will change with our manager? Personally, I cannot see Arsenal becoming any more pragmatic than it currently is - and we are about as far as it is possible to be when it comes to this new era of constant rotation of managers - something that manure and Liverpool have struggled badly with themselves.

Looking at our board - when Wenger was appointed we have David Dein and Danny Fiszman at the helm. Ambitious people with vision, and a long term desire to see Arsenal as a truly successful club in Europe. This vision has become subverted by the ideal of 'sustainability', and I simply don't see any reason to think that this will change when Wenger leaves.

And that's not even getting into the fact that our club is not in isolation and is competing against hungrier opposition that sees on pitch success as the key to their business models.

[Niall_Quinn]

Indeed we are self-sustaining - by "we" I mean Kroenke. Because that's what's actually being sustained, isn't it? His investment. Are we self-sustaining going forward as a footballing force though? I can't see it. After all the projects and plans designed to pull in the cash, even with world record gate receipts, we still hear talk of a £70mill "war chest". Utd will most likely spend twice or three times that rebuilding their squad under a new manager. The Spanish clubs, Bayern, PSG, they'll all dwarf our "skirmish chest" with their spending. These clubs can compete for the very best players, if they want them they go and get them. We still need to find angles and discounts and one-off circumstances to lure genuine talent and much of the lure was the Wenger myth which has now been clinically exposed. So let's not pretend we are the football power we think we are. We are the leading business in the football industry, that's all. We still lag well behind the real football powers and there's no indication that will be changing.

You can point out the many nefarious means by which the competition stays ahead and you might not approve of it but it remains a fact, we still can't compete. Or you could fall back on this idea that money is no longer the ultimate factor, based on Leicester's performance this season. But that would be naive thinking. Look at what was uncovered just last week. As soon as an outsider steps into the reserved territory of the "big" flops we see covert meetings and talk of plans to lock in the privileges of the money clubs. At most you can say the Wenger myth kept us in the "big 5" reckoning. That will be worth something, but how sad we even think about such underhand means to preserve our status because we can't do it on the pitch.

If we can't buy our way to success then what's happening internally that might offer another route? Nothing is the answer. Look at the state of our "hot" prospects like Walcott and Chamberlain. Where are the youth prodigies? Who is coming through to make a big impact on the European and global stage? Nobody is the answer. What happened to Project Youth? What did it yield?

Even when we get a new manager in, if Kroenke remains and the focus of the club is unchanged then how much opportunity will the new guy really have? Will his job be to push us on as a football team or simply keep as at a level that delivers the financial returns the owners have so far prioritised? Did Wenger, with all his influence, ever try to force a change in the mentality? It appears not. Could a new manager step in and change the culture given he'd surely start with much less influence in far fewer aspects of the club (and rightly so) than Wenger? I doubt it. We'd have to find a guy who could succeed despite the owners. Who could it be and how long could he expect to remain in charge?

And if by some miracle Kroenke pissed off, look at who is waiting behind him. A guy who has only recently made very clear he aims to keep his grip on his shares for the benefits they can offer to his crime family. He's the one who wanted dividends paid out from day one, don't forget that.

After the shambles of this season, can we hang on to the few genuine star players we have. Probably yes, for another season. I expect to see contract negotiations strung out as Bosman windows approach. Then we'll have a choice of caving in to huge demands or letting players go while they still have value. We've seen it before. Grand plans that don't materialise, transfer windows that plunge the club into gloom rather than build anticipation and expectation. Huge demands on individual players to make up for the long standing gaps in quality. There have been too many false dawns, too many promises, too many proclamations that finally we have the resources to compete followed by failure to utilise those resources. Players will be wise now. When they see the likes of Ozil and Alexis come here only to languish in the customary also-rans placings and be embarrassed in the Champions League it's a powerful message. Why would a player who can take his pick choose Arsenal?

What I do know is the longer Wenger remains the more it will drain the potential of the club, in football terms. An owner with balls and a will to win would have pushed the faded and well past it manager out the door the second Guardiola became available. We should have secured him at all costs because he's a guy who could change the culture. Even if he's not the best thing since sliced bread (and we'll soon find out) his appointment would have been a massive statement of intent. But we don't have people running this club who think like that. They have an entirely different agenda.

Which is why Wenger will be here for a while yet. And why we'll end up right back at the start when he eventually goes. We've reached our limit. Not because we couldn't succeed on the pitch if we put our minds to it and backed the effort with resolve and resources. But because we're owned by leeches who understand nothing about this game and don't feel the need to ever learn. They are getting precisely what they want and what they want most is Wenger because he feeds their true and only passion - money.

[Marc Overmars]

I'm not particularly worried, I believe we have one of the best set ups in the game for any young and hungry manager to excel. The hands-off approach of our board is a concern but lets not forget that Wenger is the last of his kind, no other manager is bullet proof these days. Once he has gone the club will have to move in line with other top clubs who take a sterner stance with the performance of a team and it's manager.

It's easy to see why the board have just let Wenger get on with it, top 4 security coupled with the fact Wenger's legacy makes it very difficult, maybe impossible to sack him. The problem is right now the board have no decisions to make but when Wenger goes, that will all change. Wenger and his position with us is a complete anomaly.

[IBK]

Indeed we are self-sustaining - by "we" I mean Kroenke. Because that's what's actually being sustained, isn't it? His investment. Are we self-sustaining going forward as a footballing force though? I can't see it. After all the projects and plans designed to pull in the cash, even with world record gate receipts, we still hear talk of a £70mill "war chest". Utd will most likely spend twice or three times that rebuilding their squad under a new manager. The Spanish clubs, Bayern, PSG, they'll all dwarf our "skirmish chest" with their spending. These clubs can compete for the very best players, if they want them they go and get them. We still need to find angles and discounts and one-off circumstances to lure genuine talent and much of the lure was the Wenger myth which has now been clinically exposed. So let's not pretend we are the football power we think we are. We are the leading business in the football industry, that's all. We still lag well behind the real football powers and there's no indication that will be changing.

You can point out the many nefarious means by which the competition stays ahead and you might not approve of it but it remains a fact, we still can't compete. Or you could fall back on this idea that money is no longer the ultimate factor, based on Leicester's performance this season. But that would be naive thinking. Look at what was uncovered just last week. As soon as an outsider steps into the reserved territory of the "big" flops we see covert meetings and talk of plans to lock in the privileges of the money clubs. At most you can say the Wenger myth kept us in the "big 5" reckoning. That will be worth something, but how sad we even think about such underhand means to preserve our status because we can't do it on the pitch.

If we can't buy our way to success then what's happening internally that might offer another route? Nothing is the answer. Look at the state of our "hot" prospects like Walcott and Chamberlain. Where are the youth prodigies? Who is coming through to make a big impact on the European and global stage? Nobody is the answer. What happened to Project Youth? What did it yield?

Even when we get a new manager in, if Kroenke remains and the focus of the club is unchanged then how much opportunity will the new guy really have? Will his job be to push us on as a football team or simply keep as at a level that delivers the financial returns the owners have so far prioritised? Did Wenger, with all his influence, ever try to force a change in the mentality? It appears not. Could a new manager step in and change the culture given he'd surely start with much less influence in far fewer aspects of the club (and rightly so) than Wenger? I doubt it. We'd have to find a guy who could succeed despite the owners. Who could it be and how long could he expect to remain in charge?

And if by some miracle Kroenke pissed off, look at who is waiting behind him. A guy who has only recently made very clear he aims to keep his grip on his shares for the benefits they can offer to his crime family. He's the one who wanted dividends paid out from day one, don't forget that.

After the shambles of this season, can we hang on to the few genuine star players we have. Probably yes, for another season. I expect to see contract negotiations strung out as Bosman windows approach. Then we'll have a choice of caving in to huge demands or letting players go while they still have value. We've seen it before. Grand plans that don't materialise, transfer windows that plunge the club into gloom rather than build anticipation and expectation. Huge demands on individual players to make up for the long standing gaps in quality. There have been too many false dawns, too many promises, too many proclamations that finally we have the resources to compete followed by failure to utilise those resources. Players will be wise now. When they see the likes of Ozil and Alexis come here only to languish in the customary also-rans placings and be embarrassed in the Champions League it's a powerful message. Why would a player who can take his pick choose Arsenal?

What I do know is the longer Wenger remains the more it will drain the potential of the club, in football terms. An owner with balls and a will to win would have pushed the faded and well past it manager out the door the second Guardiola became available. We should have secured him at all costs because he's a guy who could change the culture. Even if he's not the best thing since sliced bread (and we'll soon find out) his appointment would have been a massive statement of intent. But we don't have people running this club who think like that. They have an entirely different agenda.

Which is why Wenger will be here for a while yet. And why we'll end up right back at the start when he eventually goes. We've reached our limit. Not because we couldn't succeed on the pitch if we put our minds to it and backed the effort with resolve and resources. But because we're owned by leeches who understand nothing about this game and don't feel the need to ever learn. They are getting precisely what they want and what they want most is Wenger because he feeds their true and only passion - money.

Yes - its a bitter irony that we are owned by billionaires, but have managed to chose a controlling owner who only takes money out of our club rather than investing in the footballing side; and who isn't even prepared to leverage his asset to fund our progress on the field. And to cap it off is not even interested in the team being successful. This is essentially why I worry what the future holds in terms of Arsenal's success as a football club as opposed to a business - and I can't help feeling that trusting that Wenger will leave a springboard to be built on is little different to trusting that having managed the new stadium project, this would lead to success on the pitch. the latter didn't happen, why should the former?

You also raise an interesting point re the lure of the manager for players. Despite his fading star, Wenger, and the way he plays football has undoubtedly been a factor in some of our best players coming to the club. When he goes - and with the club undoubtedly remaining unwilling to pay top dollar - what will happen on the player recruitment side?

[IBK]

I'm not particularly worried, I believe we have one of the best set ups in the game for any young and hungry manager to excel. The hands-off approach of our board is a concern but lets not forget that Wenger is the last of his kind, no other manager is bullet proof these days. Once he has gone the club will have to move in line with other top clubs who take a sterner stance with the performance of a team and it's manager.

It's easy to see why the board have just let Wenger get on with it, top 4 security coupled with the fact Wenger's legacy makes it very difficult, maybe impossible to sack him. The problem is right now the board have no decisions to make but when Wenger goes, that will all change. Wenger and his position with us is a complete anomaly.

But the highlighted text infers that its only Wenger that is responsible for the apparent complacency that we are seeing now. I think that its something that runs through the club from top to bottom, and that there is no reason to believe that success will trump profits going forwards....

[Marc Overmars]

But the highlighted text infers that its only Wenger that is responsible for the apparent complacency that we are seeing now. I think that its something that runs through the club from top to bottom, and that there is no reason to believe that success will trump profits going forwards....

Both are equally responsible for the malaise. Maybe it is wishful thinking but I just think the situation at our club is very unique and I don't think it's a given that Wenger's successor will be given the same free reign.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's a collision of two very destructive flaws. The greed and indifference of the owners, past and present, coupled with the incompetence of the manager. Even with the impediment of the former I think a half decent manager could have dragged a lot more out of the players we've had over the past decade. The record reveals the truth. Wenger is a poor manager. He might be great at all the other stuff involving board level functions that he shouldn't be involved in at all, but he's a poor football manager. So poor, in fact, we have to invent special trophies to feed his legacy. Most consecutive years in the top 4 (the Top 4 Trophy), most points in the calendar year (The Consistency Trophy), highest net profit in a transfer window (The Moral Superiority Cup). The reality is, zero titles, domestically or European. Even Liverpool has a bettered that record. I believe we still have enough of a squad for a new manager to work with if Wenger leaves now. If he hangs around until 2017/18 though, that may not be the case.

[IBK]

Both are equally responsible for the malaise. Maybe it is wishful thinking but I just think the situation at our club is very unique and I don't think it's a given that Wenger's successor will be given the same free reign.

I agree that Wenger's successor will almost by definition not have the unhealthy level of influence at every level that he enjoys - but given Wenger's legacy of not spending big, its difficult to see how this will change given the owner's approach to his cash cow.

[Power n Glory]

We may be overthinking this ownership issue. Wenger's influence over the club just paints a bleak picture. Until he goes we won't really know the extent of the problem. In theory, there really isn't much wrong with the way we are run. The high ticket prices and lack of spending on players is a real issue for me but we really don't know if that's the Board's influence or Wenger's. Once he goes, we may find a manager that uses his resources more wisely. For example, if the Board are so tightfisted, I've never understood why they were so comfortable spending so much in wages for mediocre players and being so generous with renewals. Diaby, Ox, Wilshere, Walcott, Ramsey, Bendy..... This goes back before the sponsorship deals and if we were that concerned about expenditure and revenue, surely that wage bill is the first thing to go under the microscope. £50k here and £60k there for players far from ready and warming the bench should raise eyebrows. I don't know how those deals, especially for young players, could have been approved without Wenger giving the thumbs up. We've already heard him talk about a 'socialist wage structure' where everyone is paid equally. That's his theory on how to keep a happy dressing. Now that we have even more money to spend, it seems like he's more than happy to dole out £100k contracts to his favorites.

I think the Board are just happy to go along with what Wenger says. It's foolish in hindsight, but would we really want a Liverpool or Real Madrid situation where the Board are too involved? I think most managers will expect to have to work to a budget and even if it's not a massive pot, it is something. With a better manager, I think we can push the boat out. Also, unless we appoint some over the hill, has been asswipe, I can't imagine we'd find a manager as unambitious as Wenger. The disappointment with Wenger is the fact that his record isn't an embarrassment to him. He gets prickly when pressed on the matter, as seen yesterday, but he won't do anything about it. I really can't see any other manager, so new and fresh into a job being content with the minimal. Not pressing the Board for more support and backing.

[I am invisible]

Do any Premier League clubs need to worry about anything ever again once this new TV deal kicks in? As long as you're not getting relegated then you're pretty much set for life.

With regards to success, I think everything in football is very short-term these days, and I can't see any more 20 year stints once Wenger goes - you're looking at 3 years, tops, for most coaches these days, so there'll be regular opportunities to freshen things up. That doesn't mean that a 26 year drought isn't still possible, but it probably won't be through lack of trying...

[Kano]

So its pretty clear that we are seeing the last throes of the Wenger era. This season has shown us in stark relief that the manager does not have what it takes to build a title winning team - but more worryingly that we can no longer look at so-called financial doping to explain why our team cannot fulfill its potential to be winners. Having seen what we have seen, even if by some fluke Leicester and Sp*rs contrive to throw away their advantage over us, I think its fair to say that for a club of our size and ambitions the Premiership would be ours by default rather than on real merit. Even if Wenger doesn't walk and we suffer another couple of years of relative mediocrity there is nothing to suggest that, having had 10 years to plan winning the league and come up short, the manager will alter his approach - or indeed do anything substantive to address the perennial failings of his team.

But while I think most Gooners have come to the point where almost anything would be preferable to our endless cycle of under-achievement, is there any real cause for optimism about our short to mid term future? One of the reasons why it has taken so long for many fans to bite the bullet and wish Wenger gone is that top 4 and CL football is preferable to mid table obscurity. Wenger is fond of pointing out that he sees himself as a custodian of the club's future security - but in reality will he end up leaving a base that can and will be built on to achieve more than we have become accustomed to over the past decade?

As well as showing that proper coaching; tactics and getting the basics right remain the key to footballing success, this season (and in the case of Manure and Liverpool - the past few seasons) has also shown us that even with managers of repute, there is no quick fix when successful managers leave a club. Looking at Manure's decline and even identity crisis since SAF retired, it is difficult not to be apprehensive about what happens to us when Wenger goes. Manure were similar to us in terms of their manager's longevity, but Wenger is even more embedded in the very essence culture and workings of our club - to the extent that unlike SAF, we don't even have any tradition of proper coaches working under him. Could the power vacuum be even more destructive with our team?

And added to that, unlike Manure; Liverpool; Citeh or the Chavs we have an owner who does not even regard footballing success as essential to his business model - let alone as something to aspire to for its own sake. We have a 'board' in name only as far as decision making is concerned; and an impotent chief executive. Do we even trust them to appoint the right successor - let alone to invest the money to support him?

I think we can assume that our competitors will make managerial signings that reflect their ambitions. Citeh have already; Manure and the Chavs surely cannot get it wrong forever, and Liverpool have appointed someone who we all expected to be more of a success than he has been to date (which merely underlines the difficulty of achieving success from a broadly similar base to our own). With the TV money, our league is only getting ever more competetive - and we have seen this over the past season.

So - Wenger or not - do we feel that there is a cause for optimism that we will be successful going forwards, or is there every reason to be concerned that we will be the Liverpool of our own era - 26 years and counting since last winning the league? Thoughts?

All depends on the owners. Kroenke and Usmanov are going nowhere fast. The money in our bank is a wonderful asset to use for leveraging their deals elsewhere. With PL money and potentially a European League coming after that, why would they sell up? Beyond those two, we will forever be in the hands of billionaire owners, either turning us into vanity projects like City/Chelsea/PSG or keeping the current model for their own benefit. We should be more worried about the future of football more than any one club at this rate. Winning titles and cups will become ever more meaningless as the financial pot increases, where the club finishing bottom of the Premier scoops up £100m (from next season). Lock 20 of the big clubs into a Euro league, the money becomes even bigger and the prizes absolutely pointless when you have 'mega-games' every weekend.

[selassie]

We may be overthinking this ownership issue. Wenger's influence over the club just paints a bleak picture. Until he goes we won't really know the extent of the problem. In theory, there really isn't much wrong with the way we are run. The high ticket prices and lack of spending on players is a real issue for me but we really don't know if that's the Board's influence or Wenger's. Once he goes, we may find a manager that uses his resources more wisely. For example, if the Board are so tightfisted, I've never understood why they were so comfortable spending so much in wages for mediocre players and being so generous with renewals. Diaby, Ox, Wilshere, Walcott, Ramsey, Bendy..... This goes back before the sponsorship deals and if we were that concerned about expenditure and revenue, surely that wage bill is the first thing to go under the microscope. £50k here and £60k there for players far from ready and warming the bench should raise eyebrows. I don't know how those deals, especially for young players, could have been approved without Wenger giving the thumbs up. We've already heard him talk about a 'socialist wage structure' where everyone is paid equally. That's his theory on how to keep a happy dressing. Now that we have even more money to spend, it seems like he's more than happy to dole out £100k contracts to his favorites.

I think the Board are just happy to go along with what Wenger says. It's foolish in hindsight, but would we really want a Liverpool or Real Madrid situation where the Board are too involved? I think most managers will expect to have to work to a budget and even if it's not a massive pot, it is something. With a better manager, I think we can push the boat out. Also, unless we appoint some over the hill, has been asswipe, I can't imagine we'd find a manager as unambitious as Wenger. The disappointment with Wenger is the fact that his record isn't an embarrassment to him. He gets prickly when pressed on the matter, as seen yesterday, but he won't do anything about it. I really can't see any other manager, so new and fresh into a job being content with the minimal. Not pressing the Board for more support and backing.

Great thread IBK.

Yeah I agree with this P'n'G, I think there are quite a few unanswered questions regarding our ambition or lack of it in the market, though in my opinion our lack of ambition in the market does point towards Wenger.

Money aside, we could and should be doing better than we currently are, we're underachieving now, there are no two ways about it. In short, a young hungry manager could quite prove to be an upgrade on Wenger and thus we would be in a healthier position.

[IBK]

We may be overthinking this ownership issue. Wenger's influence over the club just paints a bleak picture. Until he goes we won't really know the extent of the problem. In theory, there really isn't much wrong with the way we are run. The high ticket prices and lack of spending on players is a real issue for me but we really don't know if that's the Board's influence or Wenger's. Once he goes, we may find a manager that uses his resources more wisely. For example, if the Board are so tightfisted, I've never understood why they were so comfortable spending so much in wages for mediocre players and being so generous with renewals. Diaby, Ox, Wilshere, Walcott, Ramsey, Bendy..... This goes back before the sponsorship deals and if we were that concerned about expenditure and revenue, surely that wage bill is the first thing to go under the microscope. £50k here and £60k there for players far from ready and warming the bench should raise eyebrows. I don't know how those deals, especially for young players, could have been approved without Wenger giving the thumbs up. We've already heard him talk about a 'socialist wage structure' where everyone is paid equally. That's his theory on how to keep a happy dressing. Now that we have even more money to spend, it seems like he's more than happy to dole out £100k contracts to his favorites.

I think the Board are just happy to go along with what Wenger says. It's foolish in hindsight, but would we really want a Liverpool or Real Madrid situation where the Board are too involved? I think most managers will expect to have to work to a budget and even if it's not a massive pot, it is something. With a better manager, I think we can push the boat out. Also, unless we appoint some over the hill, has been asswipe, I can't imagine we'd find a manager as unambitious as Wenger. The disappointment with Wenger is the fact that his record isn't an embarrassment to him. He gets prickly when pressed on the matter, as seen yesterday, but he won't do anything about it. I really can't see any other manager, so new and fresh into a job being content with the minimal. Not pressing the Board for more support and backing.

Good points re the Owner/board simply indulging Wenger - and I do agree that we are seeing an unholy alliance between a non-pragmatic and increasingly flawed managerial approach and an unambitious board that is happy to indulge him as long as finances are looking after themselves. The question is whether any replacement manager will, whatever his personal ambition, alter the board's approach. My concern is that the owner will remain content with the financial rewards of 4th place. Just as it can be unhealthy having too much board interference, so success is surely reliant on a board/owner having an ambition/appetite for the same? Kano is quite right - our owner is going nowhere - and we have seen from his US sports franchises that sporting success is simply not on his agenda.

[Özim]

On the one hand i'll be ecstatic when Wenger leaves, it's what I've wanted to see for years and will be a great thing for the club in the long term IMO.

In the short/mid term I expect there to be somewhat of a lull, it's to be expected when you leave one man with so much control over 20 years, everything about this club is about Wenger and that's unhealthy, players have been brought up to celebrate mediocrity, to pass at every opportunity, to be mentally weak and to receive inflated wages for achieving nothing.

A new manager has a lot to contend with, he'll have to change the whole culture of the club, the players mindset, the fact they've been treated like princesses and protected from any kind of criticism, he'll have to have a clearout as some players just won't fit in and we have a load of crocks and players who haven't stepped up, that's hard after 20 years of one guy who was so blinkered nothing anyone else said matters, Wenger if you look at it has left us in not such great shape other than financially and even in those terms we'll always remain relatively cautious.

I'd also worry about who would come in, if Wenger has any kind of say in this we're f*cked. Longer term however prospects will be much better, once Wenger and his methods have been dismantled from every area of the club we have the foundations to be very successful. People don't see it but Wenger has done a lot of damage to this club in the last 10 years in more ways than one, he's been so stubborn and had so much control and made the club one that prioritses finances over success on the pitch, moving away from that will inevitably come with it's own problems.

[Letters]

Wow that's a load of bullshit.

[Özim]

Wow that's a load of bullshit.

You would say that of course.

[fakeyank]

If your question is if the club will go into obscurity like Leeds or Portsmouth, then no. If you are asking if we are at danger of getting knocked off the CL places and considered a top English team, then yes... someone just mentioned the example of Nokia, and that was spot on. We will gradually slide into mid-table and people will be asking "We did everything right but somehow got shafted".

Successful clubs are once that are pro-active and not reactive. The more we sit on our arses thinking Wenger will somehow turn our fortunes, the worse we are making it for us. We should have a potential candidate lined up right now for the end of the season. Give this person the entire pre-season to get tactics and formations right.

To me one thing is certain.. we are sliding into the shitter slowly every season with the clown in charge. We need to wake up!

[Letters]

You would say that of course.

Well I would, because it's a load of bullshit.

Last year we finished 3rd and won the Cup. People keep acting as if that is completely irrelevant to the debate.
Should that be the limit of our ambitions? No. Is that a side with serious problems and in need of a massive overhaul? No, of course not.

[Kano]

Getting a new manager, changing the tactics, the training, at least one new striker, a wide player (Theo/Ox just do not cut it), someone to play alongside Coquelin and maybe even a CB and a back-up keeper (once Ospina leaves) isn't a massive overhaul?

[Letters]

To me one thing is certain.. we are sliding into the shitter slowly every season with the clown in charge.
Yeah. Again. Last season. 3rd and the FA Cup.
LAST SEASON.

I hoped with the new money Wenger would push us on, the signings and Cup wins were rays of hope but this year it's clear he can't push us any further.
But we're not sliding anywhere. We're stagnating. We need to stop that but let's not overstate the problem.

[Letters]

Getting a new manager, changing the tactics, the training, at least one new striker, a wide player (Theo/Ox just do not cut it), someone to play alongside Coquelin and maybe even a CB and a back-up keeper (once Ospina leaves) isn't a massive overhaul?

In squad terms, no. Couple of key players are needed, that's all. A top striker and we'd have won the league this year.

[Özim]

Well I would, because it's a load of bullshit.

Last year we finished 3rd and won the Cup. People keep acting as if that is completely irrelevant to the debate.
Should that be the limit of our ambitions? No. Is that a side with serious problems and in need of a massive overhaul? No, of course not.

3rd is nowhere, like I said before the CL noone gave a toss about that, I don't see that as an achievement because every season we just make up the numbers in the CL, it's not like we ever compete.

The FA Cup but we've certainly had good draws as well which has helped.

Rosicky, Wilshere, Jenkinson, Sanogo, Ospina, Walcott, Mertersacker, Arteta, Flamini all need to move on for various reasons and we need someone to replace Cazorla who's now 31 and isn't going to be around too much long, so we need a top striker a top DM a top CB and we need to replace some of those guys mentioned, that's an overhaul.

Look at our points total so far, less than last year and less than year before in a season where all the top teams have pretty much failed to live up to expectations and are replacing their managers, in my eyes there's plenty wrong with the current setup and we need a lot of personnel changes as well as significant work behind the scenes.

The there's the fact a new manager comes into a stale environment where one man has had total control and has ingrained his terrible methods throughout the club.

We're going to need a strong manager to deal with that.

[Kano]

In squad terms, no. Couple of key players are needed, that's all. A top striker and we'd have won the league this year.
But it goes beyond merely the squad. Changing the manager, approach to games, training, injuries etc are huge part of the problem. That's ignoring the larger malaise and mentality that has affected the squad(s) for years. A better striker this year couldn't have compensated for using Flamini/Ramsey partnership that led to such chaos and a decline in our game, for example.

[Özim]

In squad terms, no. Couple of key players are needed, that's all. A top striker and we'd have won the league this year.

Well yes we do because there's quite a few players we can't rely on, we've got to get rid of those who haven't performed and those always injured, that's a fair amount of changes, in addition to the must signings required.

You're totally ignoring some of the other issues.

[Letters]

3rd is nowhere,
Well no, it isn't. It's 3rd best. We should be aiming higher, but it's hardly a sign of a side with as big a problem as you're inferring.
A top striker (and possibly a different manager) and we'd have won the league this year.

And no, we haven't had unusually easy draws in the FA Cup. I went through a couple of previous cup winners' runs prior to us and showed that there wasn't anything unusually easy about it. You ignored that, of course.


The there's the fact a new manager comes into a stale environment where one man has had total control
I'll ignore the rest of that sentence because you're WUMming, but I do agree that it will be hard for any new manager to come in because Wenger has fingers in far too many pies at Arsenal.

[Özim]

Well no, it isn't. It's 3rd best. We should be aiming higher, but it's hardly a sign of a side with as big a problem as you're inferring.
A top striker (and possibly a different manager) and we'd have won the league this year.

And no, we haven't had unusually easy draws in the FA Cup. I went through a couple of previous cup winners' runs prior to us and showed that there wasn't anything unusually easy about it. You ignored that, of course.


I'll ignore the rest of that sentence because you're WUMming, but I do agree that it will be hard for any new manager to come in because Wenger has fingers in far too many pies at Arsenal.

A winner will tell you 3rd is nowhere, the top clubs aren't interested in finishing 2nd or 3rd because that's losing, do you see Barcelona celebrating coming 2nd, or indeed Man City, Chelsea or Man U? Celebrating that achievment is really a loser's mentality.

Yes I remember you going through it, pretty much all home draws in the 1st cup win, some against decent teams but home games always give you an advantage.

Last season we played Man U away, a team who were struggling for any kind of form, not hard draws in reality however you sugar coat them.

It will be hard so we'll have to give a new manager some time, I'm hoping we get a manager with a strong personnality who wants to instill discipline and tactics because that will help, but I'm worried Wenger will have a say, really don't want a guy like Stojkovic.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well no, it isn't. It's 3rd best. We should be aiming higher, but it's hardly a sign of a side with as big a problem as you're inferring.
A top striker (and possibly a different manager) and we'd have won the league this year.

And no, we haven't had unusually easy draws in the FA Cup. I went through a couple of previous cup winners' runs prior to us and showed that there wasn't anything unusually easy about it. You ignored that, of course.


I'll ignore the rest of that sentence because you're WUMming, but I do agree that it will be hard for any new manager to come in because Wenger has fingers in far too many pies at Arsenal.

:haha:

Collapse and let the gypos overhaul us last year? - Once first is gone it's "understandable".

Hear Wenger getting criticised for settling for 3rd place? - It's 3rd best you know!

:haha:

You're the worst #WengerOut member ever!

[Özim]

You're the worst #WengerOut member ever!

Pretty much spot on, it's so bad it's hard to believe it's genuine.

There's a few on here who praise Wenger and the team and then randomly throw in that's it is time to go unconvincingly, it's almost as if they feel the tide has turned and they can't disagree even though inside they do.

If you don't think he should go, say so, yeah sure it will make you look like a bit of a loon but at least you'll be an honest loon and true to yourself.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

But what I love Zim is that you're totally blinkered by your hatred of Wenger

There is of course the element of players underperforming under him and that we haven't pushed on

But a new manager always brings in a new coaching set up with them, and some players will improve and many players will be gone (Arteta, Flamini, Rosicky, Mertesacker)

But actually you look at our squad, it's really stupid to talk of it like its one of those stray dogs you find malnourished and crawling with parasites that needs months of treatment and rehabilitation.

Cech, Koscielny, Bellerin, Cazorla, Coquelin, Sanchez, Ozil are all very good players

Monreal, Gabriel, Ramsey, Ox, Wellbeck, Giroud - despite indifferent form are all very able players

Elnenny and Campbell - I'd say the Juries out still

Wilshere probably needs to be sold because he's never going to be fit and Walcott just hasn't been able to do what we require of him. But no not a massive overhaul, we are in need of making additions to the team in key areas.

For me the main thing would be to bring in someone who is experienced as a winner but getting on in years to add some leadership to the team. As much as I hate his fucking guts, I think we'd do worse than going all out to bring in John Terry for a year, the guys an unbelievable cunt but he's a leader on the pitch....and what we have him do is mentor one of our other players to follow his footsteps (not fucking other people's wives and muttering racial epithets at people).

These players are no more mentally weak than any other player in the league, but they lack someone to shout at them and encourage them when the chips are down

Vieira tried to lead by example as he wasn't vocal himself, but he would get those around him to do it for him. Like he'd get Sol Campbell to bollock him if he sloppily lost posession.

Confidence and psychology are important things in sport and if you concede a goal it makes all the difference if there is someone wearing an armband who is saying "fuck it, this isn't over....give these cunts hell"

To talk about third as an achievement is course a celebration of failure, but what Letters is saying is that it's not a sign of something fundamentally wretched either.

[Power n Glory]

Good points re the Owner/board simply indulging Wenger - and I do agree that we are seeing an unholy alliance between a non-pragmatic and increasingly flawed managerial approach and an unambitious board that is happy to indulge him as long as finances are looking after themselves. The question is whether any replacement manager will, whatever his personal ambition, alter the board's approach. My concern is that the owner will remain content with the financial rewards of 4th place. Just as it can be unhealthy having too much board interference, so success is surely reliant on a board/owner having an ambition/appetite for the same? Kano is quite right - our owner is going nowhere - and we have seen from his US sports franchises that sporting success is simply not on his agenda.

The owner may be content with 4th but will the new manager? Again, I think it all boils down to the manager and his ambition. I just can't see the next manager taking on a position like this and not pushing us all the way. Even if Stan and co are content with 4th, whoever takes on this club must be able to see the potential and want more for us. More for himself in fact. Unlike Wenger, who now seems to take more pride in his years of service over actual trophies, the next manager has to.measure himself by the trophies won. There would be no pride in a 4th place finish each year.

[Özim]

But what I love Zim is that you're totally blinkered by your hatred of Wenger

There is of course the element of players underperforming under him and that we haven't pushed on

But a new manager always brings in a new coaching set up with them, and some players will improve and many players will be gone (Arteta, Flamini, Rosicky, Mertesacker)

But actually you look at our squad, it's really stupid to talk of it like its one of those stray dogs you find malnourished and crawling with parasites that needs months of treatment and rehabilitation.

Cech, Koscielny, Bellerin, Cazorla, Coquelin, Sanchez, Ozil are all very good players

Monreal, Gabriel, Ramsey, Ox, Wellbeck, Giroud - despite indifferent form are all very able players

Elnenny and Campbell - I'd say the Juries out still

Wilshere probably needs to be sold because he's never going to be fit and Walcott just hasn't been able to do what we require of him. But no not a massive overhaul, we are in need of making additions to the team in key areas.

For me the main thing would be to bring in someone who is experienced as a winner but getting on in years to add some leadership to the team. As much as I hate his fucking guts, I think we'd do worse than going all out to bring in John Terry for a year, the guys an unbelievable cunt but he's a leader on the pitch....and what we have him do is mentor one of our other players to follow his footsteps (not fucking other people's wives and muttering racial epithets at people).

These players are no more mentally weak than any other player in the league, but they lack someone to shout at them and encourage them when the chips are down

Vieira tried to lead by example as he wasn't vocal himself, but he would get those around him to do it for him. Like he'd get Sol Campbell to bollock him if he sloppily lost posession.

Confidence and psychology are important things in sport and if you concede a goal it makes all the difference if there is someone wearing an armband who is saying "fuck it, this isn't over....give these cunts hell"

To talk about third as an achievement is course a celebration of failure, but what Letters is saying is that it's not a sign of something fundamentally wretched either.

I'm not going lie, I can't stand the guy, he's patronising, irritating, boring, repetitive and dishonest IMO, I also don't like the way he pins everything on anyoen else and absolves himself of any responsbility.


Cech, Koscielny, Bellerin, Cazorla, Coquelin, Sanchez, Ozil are all very good players

I agree with this


Monreal, Gabriel, Ramsey, Ox, Wellbeck, Giroud - despite indifferent form are all very able players

This is debateable, Monreal I agree about, Gabriel is unproven and has been average so far, Ramsey has had one good season so he's not proven much so far, Ox has talent but just hasn't delivered thus far, but that could change, Wellbeck I just don't rate, IMO he won't have a future under a new manager, he's just not consistent enough and has never been and at his age I doubt he ever will be. Giroud is just a sub, he can't be relied on, he'll score a few and is a plan B but he's shown he goes on long barren run where he does next to nothing regularly


Elnenny and Campbell - I'd say the Juries out still

Campbell is a quality player IMO, jury isn't out on him, he's a very good winger.

A new manager will change things, though I think this will take time, but there's still a fair few personnel changes and that's a lot of work to replace those players and incorporate them.

A few of our mainstays are also getting older now and will need replacing in a few years which isn't going to help, I don't personally think our squad is in that great a shape.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Compared to whose though?....you could make the argument you've made for us essentially about any side with the exception of Spurs who have a relatively very young team.

I believe the current squad is good enough to win the league but the manager hasn't got the best out of them, a few additions and a combination of better match preparation and a manager who is prepared to rotate and drop failing players more consistently rather than when his hand is forced....and we will be up there to challenge regardless of who city, United and Chelsea bring in.

Wenger is no different to any other manager in press conferences, what you find frustrating is the lack of success there has been for so long which is equally attributable to both financing the stadium move and a manager with clear flaws being given far too much responsibility.

I don't hate Wenger because the club I feel is in a position far better than it was when he became manager, but it's time to hand the baton onto others. Irrespective of what he wins (or probably doesn't) it seems unthinkable to me that he should sign a contract extension.
And without a league title this season or next I don't see an offer being forthcoming, whatever we say about the board being happy with 4th they know full well the indirect lucrative deals they can make with a club winning major silverware.
I think the chances of him going at the end of the season are slim to none

[fakeyank]

Yeah. Again. Last season. 3rd and the FA Cup.
LAST SEASON.

I hoped with the new money Wenger would push us on, the signings and Cup wins were rays of hope but this year it's clear he can't push us any further.
But we're not sliding anywhere. We're stagnating. We need to stop that but let's not overstate the problem.

Stagnating while others are stagnating is fine. Stagnating while others are gaining i.e. Spurs, Leicester, West Ham, to me seems like we are falling behind. Anyway, correct terminology aside, you get the gist of the message.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No one has said it's acceptable, all that's being said is that a new manager coming in isn't inheriting a car crash

When Mourinho takes over United you will hear nothing from him other than bemoan the side he inherits even though the mouthy little prick will probably eclipse LVGs spending....the thing is though that United team is far less for a new guy to work with than what we have.

Plus we have an excellent training facility at London Colney, anyone who comes in to replace Wenger will be chomping at the bit to make their mark with us.

[IBK]

No one has said it's acceptable, all that's being said is that a new manager coming in isn't inheriting a car crash

When Mourinho takes over United you will hear nothing from him other than bemoan the side he inherits even though the mouthy little prick will probably eclipse LVGs spending....the thing is though that United team is far less for a new guy to work with than what we have.

Plus we have an excellent training facility at London Colney, anyone who comes in to replace Wenger will be chomping at the bit to make their mark with us.

That's a good point - despite our misgivings about the owner - we are an excellent prospect for an incoming manager. Stable; good bunch of players and a good set up - not to mention our reputation and CL pedigree. I can see a hungry young manager recognising where Arsene is getting it wrong, and believing that he can find the 'extra 2%' in a fairly straightforward way. But against this is the massive transition that will be required, and the culture of parsimony that is as much the hallmark of Arsenal now as anything else. The new manager will have to spend, as for all our misgivings about Wenger there is noone better at consistently attaining CL football without splashing big transfer cash, and we cannot expect a like for like replacement in this regard. Also in terms of transition, how will the players react to the potential end of the 'flat' pay structure that is Arsene's mantra. And will players be drawn to a Pochettino type manager as they were to Wenger who is still hugely respected in the game?

[Letters]

Last season we played Man U away, a team who were struggling for any kind of form, not hard draws in reality however you sugar coat them.
When we played them we were only 1 point ahead of them and they had only lost 2 at home all season.

[Letters]

You're the worst #WengerOut member ever!
I'm not in your #WengerOut group.

I'm perfectly capable of thinking Wenger should be sacked without thinking EVERYTHING he does or says is wrong.

See my post in the match reaction thread from last night :good:

[IBK]

I'm not in your #WengerOut group.

I'm perfectly capable of thinking Wenger should be sacked without thinking EVERYTHING he does or says is wrong.

See my post in the match reaction thread from last night :good:

TBF your only 'crime' is believing longer than most others. But you are a lightning rod for the disenchantment on here.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm not in your #WengerOut group.

I'm perfectly capable of thinking Wenger should be sacked without thinking EVERYTHING he does or says is wrong.

See my post in the match reaction thread from last night :good:

I read you self-pitying plea on the other thread. Heard it all before and all it really does is reinforce why this manager should GTFO fast before the damage becomes unsustainable.

Yes - we won cups - but failed to Capitalise.
Yes - we signed big players - but we still go backwards.
Yes - we had the 3rd highest net spend after years of transfer profits - STILL we go backwards.

How bad does this guy have to get before some people wake up to it?

And respect is a two way street. Incidents like the one at Stoke last year are despicable and the twats responsible for that should be roundly criticised. But you've seen Wenger's response to criticism, certainly over the last week. "I ignore it, I don't care, it's boring", he thinks he's untouchable regardless of how badly he performs and maybe he's right. Either way, not much respect there. Piss off is his basic message.

And the excuses :doh: Every excuse under the sun coming from this guy.

So we have a manager taking the team backwards at the same time as taking the owners forwards in massive strides, a guy who will accept no criticism and a guy who blames everyone else for the problems. How, exactly, should fans concerned about the club react? Please Mr Wenger, I'm not even worthy to speak to you but please, could you please buy the players we need to compete? Please Mr Wenger, if it's not too much trouble, could you please review what has happened over the last 10 years and consider making a few adjustments to you methods? I hate to trouble you Mr Wenger, but remember when you said the whole stadium move thing was about taking the club to the next level? Could you explain how you intend to do that?

That'll work. A little bit of fawning at the feet of a man who plainly couldn't care less what anyone else thinks is certain to do the trick.

Get off the fence Letters. Go back to Wenger's heel if that's what you want to do. Free world, you make the choice. But stop with the Wenger Out - But, routine. He's in or out, which is it? Because if he's out then the fans will need to get together and put the pressure on to make that happen. The very best thing the owners and their complicit manager could see right now is a split down the middle of the fan base. Divide them and piss on them, an old strategy.

[Letters]

Self-pitying :lol:

Can't be arsed reading any more than that...

[Niall_Quinn]

Self-pitying :lol:

Can't be arsed reading any more than that...

Shame, but the la la la, can't see it, can't hear it approach isn't going to save Wenger. Only Wenger can do that by picking his game out of the dirt and delivering. Problem with him is he can't even see there's anything wrong.

[Power n Glory]

I read you self-pitying plea on the other thread. Heard it all before and all it really does is reinforce why this manager should GTFO fast before the damage becomes unsustainable.

Yes - we won cups - but failed to Capitalise.
Yes - we signed big players - but we still go backwards.
Yes - we had the 3rd highest net spend after years of transfer profits - STILL we go backwards.

How bad does this guy have to get before some people wake up to it?

And respect is a two way street. Incidents like the one at Stoke last year are despicable and the twats responsible for that should be roundly criticised. But you've seen Wenger's response to criticism, certainly over the last week. "I ignore it, I don't care, it's boring", he thinks he's untouchable regardless of how badly he performs and maybe he's right. Either way, not much respect there. Piss off is his basic message.

And the excuses :doh: Every excuse under the sun coming from this guy.

So we have a manager taking the team backwards at the same time as taking the owners forwards in massive strides, a guy who will accept no criticism and a guy who blames everyone else for the problems. How, exactly, should fans concerned about the club react? Please Mr Wenger, I'm not even worthy to speak to you but please, could you please buy the players we need to compete? Please Mr Wenger, if it's not too much trouble, could you please review what has happened over the last 10 years and consider making a few adjustments to you methods? I hate to trouble you Mr Wenger, but remember when you said the whole stadium move thing was about taking the club to the next level? Could you explain how you intend to do that?

That'll work. A little bit of fawning at the feet of a man who plainly couldn't care less what anyone else thinks is certain to do the trick.

Get off the fence Letters. Go back to Wenger's heel if that's what you want to do. Free world, you make the choice. But stop with the Wenger Out - But, routine. He's in or out, which is it? Because if he's out then the fans will need to get together and put the pressure on to make that happen. The very best thing the owners and their complicit manager could see right now is a split down the middle of the fan base. Divide them and piss on them, an old strategy.

It's really bad. For years we've seen how that's played out on these boards and it's all going public with Arsenal Fan TV and Twitter.

But when you have the owner and manager singing from the same hymn book and showing a total disrespect to the fans, why is it ok for Wenger to get a pass?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I read you self-pitying plea on the other thread. Heard it all before and all it really does is reinforce why this manager should GTFO fast before the damage becomes unsustainable.

Yes - we won cups - but failed to Capitalise.
Yes - we signed big players - but we still go backwards.
Yes - we had the 3rd highest net spend after years of transfer profits - STILL we go backwards.

How bad does this guy have to get before some people wake up to it?

And respect is a two way street. Incidents like the one at Stoke last year are despicable and the twats responsible for that should be roundly criticised. But you've seen Wenger's response to criticism, certainly over the last week. "I ignore it, I don't care, it's boring", he thinks he's untouchable regardless of how badly he performs and maybe he's right. Either way, not much respect there. Piss off is his basic message.

And the excuses :doh: Every excuse under the sun coming from this guy.

So we have a manager taking the team backwards at the same time as taking the owners forwards in massive strides, a guy who will accept no criticism and a guy who blames everyone else for the problems. How, exactly, should fans concerned about the club react? Please Mr Wenger, I'm not even worthy to speak to you but please, could you please buy the players we need to compete? Please Mr Wenger, if it's not too much trouble, could you please review what has happened over the last 10 years and consider making a few adjustments to you methods? I hate to trouble you Mr Wenger, but remember when you said the whole stadium move thing was about taking the club to the next level? Could you explain how you intend to do that?

That'll work. A little bit of fawning at the feet of a man who plainly couldn't care less what anyone else thinks is certain to do the trick.

Get off the fence Letters. Go back to Wenger's heel if that's what you want to do. Free world, you make the choice. But stop with the Wenger Out - But, routine. He's in or out, which is it? Because if he's out then the fans will need to get together and put the pressure on to make that happen. The very best thing the owners and their complicit manager could see right now is a split down the middle of the fan base. Divide them and piss on them, an old strategy.

This is the most disturbing reality about the club if you ask me- the fact that after 10 years of glaring underachievement the fans will need to be the ones to push Wenger out. Why is this bad? Well I am struggling to think of any other top European club that has assembled such a docile board of twats that could accept such a scenario for so long. I mean looking at the club from the top, we are either being run by Robots or people who understand the game and its culture so little, that it won't surprise me if they need the offside rule explained to them several times a day or believe St Totteringham's day is some sort of German feast that falls in July!

Seriously, this suggests to me that even now, they still haven't started thinking about his replacement and to me the only thing worse than Wenger staying is imagining him given a free hand to choose his successor and becoming our go to "Football" guy on this board.

That is what truly worries me, the successful extermination of real "Football" people in our club. I have not even started talking about the fans yet.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger has finally realised he's mortal and on planet earth. This is huge. I can see why it must have been easy to believe he was in heaven, in charge of the place. Top job for all eternity, happy families, no expectations. Bliss. And then the alarm clock intrudes.


“Even in paradise, Adam was not happy,” Wenger observed wryly. “We are on earth here so I can understand that people are very demanding.

“I have not created human beings. That is God, if he exists. He didn’t make us perfect, so we have to live with that. We have to live with exaggerations and I can do that. I honestly never believed that I was God and I’m absolutely completely conscious of that. But what can I do? It is a perception of other people. It is judgement. Is it right or wrong? I don’t know.

But I know I can only make sure of one thing – I am completely committed to perform and I do my best to make sure this club does well.”

[Marc Overmars]

He belongs in the loony bin.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger has finally realised he's mortal and on planet earth. This is huge. I can see why it must have been easy to believe he was in heaven, in charge of the place. Top job for all eternity, happy families, no expectations. Bliss. And then the alarm clock intrudes.

He's so wise! :bow: Le Professor.

[selassie]

Wenger has finally realised he's mortal and on planet earth. This is huge. I can see why it must have been easy to believe he was in heaven, in charge of the place. Top job for all eternity, happy families, no expectations. Bliss. And then the alarm clock intrudes.

He just talks in riddles like a politician and shifts the blame. He's accountable for nothing, sad thing is he won't accept the reality, some of his recent statements,

"there is nothing wrong with the confidence of my team"

"let me tell you we beat Leicester twice so it's down to the others to beat them"

"judge us at the end of the season"

"I don't know why but everybody says Arsenal have a habit of collapsing in February and March"

He's just digging himself further and further down, it's all a load of bollocks.

[Hump]

Arsene's briefing for the next press conference:

Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few hearts or took a few liberties with our loyal supports - we did.
But you can't hold a Manager responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted overpaid players. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame everyone at Arsenal football club? And if the whole of Arsenal football club is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of the premiership football in general? I put it to you, members of the press- isn't this an indictment of our entire sport of football? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the beautiful game. Gentlemen!