Angriest You've Been This Season

[Letters]

Prompted by Gary's post about having a hissy fit (as I did, and I'm sure a lot of us did) when Wele missed that chance at the end of the Watford game, what's the angriest you've been this season? Obviously any season will have ups and downs but we really are spoilt for choice this season.

I didn't see the Chelsea game at home but when I looked up the score I think that was the moment for me when I 'lost it' with them,

[Kano]

First half performance at home against Liverpool. Worst I've seen us play in years.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The home game against Chelsea

I hate Chelsea, and we fell into the same old trap, the team set up was poor....the attempts to get back into the game were non existent. I thought we were hard done by, by poor refereeing at Stamford bridge but this time all the damage was totally self inflicted.

More angry than I was about the Southampton game away

Yes we know that Arsenals Wenger will perennially let you down, but what has set this season apart is the amount of games where we have been shit far outweighs the games where we have been decent.

West Ham, Liverpool, Olympiakos, Tottenham, Newcastle, Chelsea, Southampton, Hull, Swansea and Watford at home

Dynamo Zagreb, Sheffield Wednesday, West Brom, Norwich, Southampton, Liverpool, Stoke and Man United away from home

[Letters]

Southampton away was annoying but it was hot on the heels of the City win so could be passed off as 'one of those days'.
The recent balls ups have been more frustrating.
Swansea was another one. Turned off in disgust at 2-1. And don't get me started about the Utd game.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We have been shit at home all season with the exception of two or three games

32 goals scored in 23 games

Compared to 39 in 22 away from home

[Letters]

We have been shit at home all season with the exception of two or three games

32 goals scored in 23 games

In terms of results though it's comparable with the teams above us.

[Marc Overmars]

United away. I threw in the towel after that, we showed that day we couldn't deal with the expectancy and results since then have confirmed it.

This season has been blighted by some really pathetic results and performances. I mean, losing 4-0 to Southampton days after winning a title 6 pointer? What a joke and because of that, any positivity and confidence we should have gained from that City win was never felt and we've been on the slide ever since.

[GP]

Swansea at home was the breaking point for me. Baffled how we lost that one.

Also, you really just have to laugh at this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdiBsKVWEAA_nU1.jpg

[Letters]

:lol: I actually did laugh at that!

:ilt:

[Gooner23]

This season has been mainly resignation that we are a bang average side lead by a (now) bang average manager. Interjected by the odd high (Leicester home win) and quite a few WTF moments (Utd away, Chelsea home and away).

In terms of pure anger though, the Chelsea away game. Angry at the ref, Costa, Mourinho, our own players stupidity, once again playing like rabbits in a headlight against them, no lessons learned etc etc.

[Niall_Quinn]

Swansea at home was the breaking point for me. Baffled how we lost that one.

Also, you really just have to laugh at this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdiBsKVWEAA_nU1.jpg

I had no idea our fans were *that* bad. That's shocking.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Swansea at home was the breaking point for me. Baffled how we lost that one.

Also, you really just have to laugh at this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdiBsKVWEAA_nU1.jpg

We're worse than Aston Villa.

[selassie]

United away I was probably the angriest, Swansea Home was the start of the depression/resignation that we had most definitely tossed away the league.

I felt indifferent after Sunday, not even angry.

This season has been a monumental disaster, a collapse of epic proportions.

[Niall_Quinn]

Not signing Vidal. It showed we had no intention of challenging for trophies. It showed nothing was going to change. At the time I lived in hope but the reality always catches up.

[Letters]

We're worse than Aston Villa.

You say that, I bet we pub-team an unconvincing 1-0 on the last day to cement our place in the top 4 (3?) and maybe bring about a late St Totteringham's Day.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Not signing Vidal. It showed we had no intention of challenging for trophies. It showed nothing was going to change. At the time I lived in hope but the reality always catches up.

NQ living in hope. :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

NQ living in hope. :haha:

No you idiot, I literally lived in a town called Hope.

[IBK]

Chelsea at home and the injury time equaliser at Anfield. Like most fans though - I'm beyond anger now. Well onto the 4th and 5th stages of grief!

[KSE Comedy Club]

The only time I've been genuinely angry this season is the recent hoo-ha about any fans being disrespectful to Wenger by daring to question his ability to manage the team successfully.

Over the last 10 years I have become immune to any results and performances being properly shite and the embarrassing amount of new records we've set and had set against us which reflect such performances. They have increasingly and inevitably become the norm for Wenger and our once great team.

Sure I've had a good moan as any supporter does, but my real anger only rears its ugly head whenever Wengers moronic management reign is left to continue.

[hobson's choice]

I stopped being angry about 4 seasons ago.

[LDG]

Sheff Weds in the joke cup.

Inept performance, horrendous team selection, injuries, lack of fight / desire.

Epitomised the whole thing for me, and cemented my thoughts that we'd collapse as usual.

We were in great form, and it killed all momentum (albeit we got a result against Swansea just after). The form after that took a dip, showed we had no back-ups for injuries or class replacements when form dropped.

Fucking useless bunch of cunts. Never a penny being paid to that business again. It's not my club anymore, it's a fucking soulless business full of bullshit.

[dostoy]

I stopped being angry about 4 seasons ago.

Yes I agree I don't really get angry because I expect nothing from Arsenal.

I am always surprised by any kind of a win and never ever surprised when any shitty team beats us.

It is not about what players will arrive in the summer any more because Wenger cannot motivate any of them.

I am glad we are out of the fuck all cup, we must concentrate on the league and with no trophies Wenger must go in 3 months.

[Power n Glory]

That Welbeck miss.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That Welbeck miss.

See I didn't even see the game live because I was out to Sunday lunch with my dad whilst he's having his kitchen done

I saw the highlights after knowing the result and that made me angry, not even with Welbeck individually but just.....what the fuck is going on here.

[Power n Glory]

See I didn't even see the game live because I was out to Sunday lunch with my dad whilst he's having his kitchen done

I saw the highlights after knowing the result and that made me angry, not even with Welbeck individually but just.....what the fuck is going on here.

First time in ages I've had that sort of outburst.

[Letters]

That Welbeck miss.

Yeah, that was a good one :lol:

:fury:

[fakeyank]

Every time I see Wengers face

[Letters]

Every time I see Wengers face

http://cdn.caughtoffside.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Wenger-laughing.jpg

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I like it when Wenger smiles because usually things are going well even if it doesn't last

He's more entertaining in press conferences

I despise his slumped "what do you want me to do about it" expression like he's been hard done by rather than fucked it up again.

[fakeyank]

Sheff Weds in the joke cup.

Inept performance, horrendous team selection, injuries, lack of fight / desire.

Epitomised the whole thing for me, and cemented my thoughts that we'd collapse as usual.

We were in great form, and it killed all momentum (albeit we got a result against Swansea just after). The form after that took a dip, showed we had no back-ups for injuries or class replacements when form dropped.

Fucking useless bunch of cunts. Never a penny being paid to that business again. It's not my club anymore, it's a fucking soulless business full of bullshit.

Tell us how you really feel bruh..

[Power n Glory]

Yeah, that was a good one :lol:

:fury:

Responsible for the loudest cheer and outburst this season. That goal against Leicester and then that miss.

[Letters]

Responsible for the loudest cheer and outburst this season. That goal against Leicester and then that miss.

It added to my "footballers are useless" thesis.
He's no Zidane but he's a decent enough player. He's 6 yards out (if that?) and he can't turn and shoot and hit the target? Really?
YOU'RE A PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLER!
I will literally never understand how footballers who practice for hours every day can't reliably do basic things like this. Twats.

[Power n Glory]

It added to my "footballers are useless" thesis.
He's no Zidane but he's a decent enough player. He's 6 yards out (if that?) and he can't turn and shoot and hit the target? Really?
YOU'RE A PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLER!
I will literally never understand how footballers who practice for hours every day can't reliably do basic things like this. Twats.

Yeah. it was a real clumsy moment. Didn't sort his feet out and just laced it well wide. :lol: Sheer panic.

[Gooner23]

Sheff Weds in the joke cup.

Inept performance, horrendous team selection, injuries, lack of fight / desire.

Epitomised the whole thing for me, and cemented my thoughts that we'd collapse as usual.

We were in great form, and it killed all momentum (albeit we got a result against Swansea just after). The form after that took a dip, showed we had no back-ups for injuries or class replacements when form dropped.

Fucking useless bunch of cunts. Never a penny being paid to that business again. It's not my club anymore, it's a fucking soulless business full of bullshit.

Couldn't agree more on that last sentence. In fact this week I cancelled my red membership for next season. I haven't been to a live game for over a year now and don't really intend to go again unless I feel the club's priorities start to shift back towards competing for trophies and representing the fans.

[fakeyank]

It added to my "footballers are useless" thesis.
He's no Zidane but he's a decent enough player. He's 6 yards out (if that?) and he can't turn and shoot and hit the target? Really?
YOU'RE A PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLER!
I will literally never understand how footballers who practice for hours every day can't reliably do basic things like this. Twats.

There are plenty of morans like that in the team. Look at Campbell for example.. how difficult is it for him to use his right foot? Every freaking time, he will go on his left foot. Look at Walcott.. this guy collects a paycheck of 100K+ a week and he cannot even control a ball. His ball control is as bad as I have seen anyone have bar Mertesacker. I play park football with huge unfit gits and they have better ball control than him.

[Letters]

It's not just in our team, throughout the game I see players who can't take a set piece or hit the target from 10 yards. It's pathetic.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Jesus I didn't fully realise just how fat Koeman is these days.

Southampton at home was pretty bad but Swansea was the angriest I felt. Two winnable games blown.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Outside of a football ground I'm more of a fist pump than a vocal celebrator

Exceptions to that was Ramsey's goal against Hull in the FA cup final

And the Arshavin goal against Barcelona

[AFC Leveller]

There are so many to choose from, it's difficult to pick out one moment but the loss to Man ure was criminal and the wheels well and truly came off after that. The way we just bent over and handed three points to them was sickening, made worse by the fact that only 4 players came to applaud the fans afterwards.

Swansea at home is a close second followed by:

Watford
Olympiacos
Chelsea
Saints away

I want to include Everton away as I can see us getting beaten and played off the park.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's worrying isn't it, usually even in terrible runs of form you see an end in sight, but I literally couldn't tell you where the next win will come from.

Usually poor form in the past has been marked by having loads of the ball playing in front of the opposistion and creating next to nothing in chances (game that springs to mind is December 30th 2006 where we lost 1-0 to Sheffield United, and they had jagielka in goal for the last thirty minutes but literally had no saves to make).

Now we are creating chances and just failing to convert, either through snatching at them or failing to pull the trigger full stop.

The amount of chances we created against Barcelona in both legs was silly

[Bumble]

It's not just in our team, throughout the game I see players who can't take a set piece or hit the target from 10 yards. It's pathetic.
although to be fair Pires couldn't take a corner either I am sure he regularly hit the first man and he was class.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's abundantly clear practising corners are against the rules of Wenger ball

[Marc Overmars]

Now we are creating chances and just failing to convert, either through snatching at them or failing to pull the trigger full stop.

The amount of chances we created against Barcelona in both legs was silly

Poor coaching. You want your forwards to come alive around the box but ours just retreat and pass the buck.

[Kano]

It's not just in our team, throughout the game I see players who can't take a set piece or hit the target from 10 yards. It's pathetic.

We literally had the exact same outfield squad last season yet didn't suffer this problem scoring goals. Our chance rate looks similar to last season going by Sqawka stats, so you have to wonder what has happened this season. Training methods won't have changed at all over the years, so it's odd what has happened to our ability to put the ball in the net. Even without a better striker this team should have enough to be top of this league right now. The chances are still coming but the composure has gone to shit.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's abundantly clear practising corners are against the rules of Wenger ball

Not sure about that. To hit the first defender with such consistency doesn't come naturally. It needs to be drilled.

[LDG]

Tell us how you really feel bruh..

This isn't about managers or players or much else reallt anymore for me.

I'm just fucked off with the whole thing. It was a family thing for me, family then friends and that was bound to the club. They've taken that from me. Wenger, board, players, football....they don't give a fuck either, so why should I.

Bollocks to em. Got a young lad, and another baby on the way. Club has fucked itself for me....my dad took me as a nipper....will I fuck subject my kids to that. We're off to my local non-league team...

Arsenal can fuck emselfs to hell. They and the corrupt core of football has ruined it.

:shrug:

[Marc Overmars]

Fair play bro. I'll never be able to stop going to games because, well, that's what I've done all my life and no amount of TV will top the enjoyment of being there in person. Though the emotional attachment when I'm not at a game has dwindled massively, to the point where I really don't care if I miss a live TV game or not. If Sky don't offer me the cut price deal I'm currently on again, I'm done. Quite happy watching a small highlights package and getting my fix that way.

[Xhaka Can’t]

This isn't about managers or players or much else reallt anymore for me.

I'm just fucked off with the whole thing. It was a family thing for me, family then friends and that was bound to the club. They've taken that from me. Wenger, board, players, football....they don't give a fuck either, so why should I.

Bollocks to em. Got a young lad, and another baby on the way. Club has fucked itself for me....my dad took me as a nipper....will I fuck subject my kids to that. We're off to my local non-league team...

Arsenal can fuck emselfs to hell. They and the corrupt core of football has ruined it.

:shrug:
Where there is money, there is the lowest of the low and they are embedded throughout the top level of football.

And Arsenal is ground zero.

[Alpha]

Any team can lose a game on their bad day . What frustrates with the Arsenal is not the games they are losing but the manner they tend to be losing those games . They sometimes look like robots on the pitch who have been programmed to play in a certain way and can't change until the programmer changes the data . They make the same mistakes even when it is obvious what they doing is not working. They insist with their rubbish zonal markings . They give too much spaces to other teams to punish them . They make silly passes in their own final third and end up losing the ball putting themselves under unnecessary pressure . They are reluctant to break any play and always make tackles when it too late . They make one passe too many and refuse to shoot when in good position. They panick in from of goal , lose their cool and end up regretting those missed opportunities .
Someone will point their finger at Wenger but we are talking about professional footballers who amassed thousands of pounds and should be made accountable for their actions.

[Letters]

We literally had the exact same outfield squad last season yet didn't suffer this problem scoring goals. Our chance rate looks similar to last season going by Sqawka stats, so you have to wonder what has happened this season. Training methods won't have changed at all over the years, so it's odd what has happened to our ability to put the ball in the net. Even without a better striker this team should have enough to be top of this league right now. The chances are still coming but the composure has gone to shit.
Agree. And this is why although Wenger's decision (well, probably inability) to sign a top striker now looks terminal, there should be plenty of goals in this squad. We don't have 'an Aguero' but we have plenty of players who can score goals, share the goals out amongst the team more and we should have been fine.

[Xhaka Can’t]

You know it has truly gone to shit when they've broken Alpha.

I'm now the angriest I've been all season.

[Marc Overmars]

Agree. And this is why although Wenger's decision (well, probably inability) to sign a top striker now looks terminal, there should be plenty of goals in this squad. We don't have 'an Aguero' but we have plenty of players who can score goals, share the goals out amongst the team more and we should have been fine.

I think that's the bloody most annoying thing, we didn't have to be great this year to win it and with a bit of competency we should be top, with or without a star striker. The bar was let low enough for us this year and we've still somehow managed to fall short.

[Niall_Quinn]

Any team can lose a game on their bad day . What frustrates with the Arsenal is not the games they are losing but the manner they tend to be losing those games . They sometimes look like robots on the pitch who have been programmed to play in a certain way and can't change until the programmer changes the data . They make the same mistakes even when it is obvious what they doing is not working. They insist with their rubbish zonal markings . They give too much spaces to other teams to punish them . They make silly passes in their own final third and end up losing the ball putting themselves under unnecessary pressure . They are reluctant to break any play and always make tackles when it too late . They make one passe too many and refuse to shoot when in good position. They panick in from of goal , lose their cool and end up regretting those missed opportunities .
Someone will point their finger at Wenger but we are talking about professional footballers who amassed thousands of pounds and should be made accountable for their actions.

That's the problem. It's a good way of explaining it. The data being input is riddled with errors and incompatible with the components being programmed. Some of the components are inferior because they are cheap alternatives to the genuine article, or worn out and long since due an upgrade. Everyone can see this, apart from the programmer.

Garbage in, garbage out.

[Niall_Quinn]

Agree. And this is why although Wenger's decision (well, probably inability) to sign a top striker now looks terminal, there should be plenty of goals in this squad. We don't have 'an Aguero' but we have plenty of players who can score goals, share the goals out amongst the team more and we should have been fine.

While it's true Giroud is second tier, he has managed to score some goals. He's not the worst striker ever to play the game and considering what we are up against this season he *should* have been good enough to see us over the line. Bringing in a top striker in the summer *might* have improved the chance of us topping this league. But that's far from certain. It wouldn't have removed the fundamental problems. An owner made of shit and a manager gone to shit. I can envisage Aguero in an Arsenal shirt and six months down the line all the fans scratching their heads asking, what the fuck happened to Aguero? We're doing it with Alexis right now.

[Kano]

I think that's the bloody most annoying thing, we didn't have to be great this year to win it and with a bit of competency we should be top, with or without a star striker. The bar was let low enough for us this year and we've still somehow managed to fall short.

Beyond all the 'Wenger is a fool who doesn't know what he's doing' and 'Any four legged creature could do better' bollocks, you have to ask just what has happened to us in front of goal. Blaming training and things behind the scenes is a dead end because no-one has a clue what goes on and they are lying if they say otherwise. It's the easiest thing to say to cover a large part of the argument, blame things no-one can disprove. But the truth is, if we believe nothing has changed in terms of the teams approach, it makes sense to think the same about training - why would anything have changed after all these years? So that leaves the players out on the pitch. Wenger plays a large part in that when it comes down to failing to tackle dips in confidence and picking underperforming players out of the doldrums and foolishly picking the wrong players who are out of form too much.

But I think Letters point about having a strong captain is a very good one and it's no coincidence that since Vieira left, we've had a gaping hole in that respect. The old saying of that particular player being the extension of the manager out on the pitch is true because when shit hits the fan on the pitch, the only person with the personality to lift the team is stuck way back inbetween the goalposts, which is far from ideal. Our players have no-one to lift them further upfield when needed and no-one to inspire them by playing a key pass, a goal out of the blue, a crunching tackle - the tiny details that can switch emotions around again into something positive when all seems lost.

[Niall_Quinn]

Beyond all the 'Wenger is a fool who doesn't know what he's doing' and 'Any four legged creature could do better' bollocks, you have to ask just what has happened to us in front of goal. Blaming training and things behind the scenes is a dead end because no-one has a clue what goes on and they are lying if they say otherwise. It's the easiest thing to say to cover a large part of the argument, blame things no-one can disprove. But the truth is, if we believe nothing has changed in terms of the teams approach, it makes sense to think the same about training - why would anything have changed after all these years? So that leaves the players out on the pitch. Wenger plays a large part in that when it comes down to failing to tackle dips in confidence and picking underperforming players out of the doldrums and foolishly picking the wrong players who are out of form too much.

But I think Letters point about having a strong captain is a very good one and it's no coincidence that since Vieira left, we've had a gaping hole in that respect. The old saying of that particular player being the extension of the manager out on the pitch is true because when shit hits the fan on the pitch, the only person with the personality to lift the team is stuck way back inbetween the goalposts, which is far from ideal. Our players have no-one to lift them further upfield when needed and no-one to inspire them by playing a key pass, a goal out of the blue, a crunching tackle - the tiny details that can switch emotions around again into something positive when all seems lost.

Forget Barcelona, we're being outplayed by Watford, Swansea and Southampton. Old hacks like van Gaal are walking away having bested the legend in charge at Arsenal. We have a squad filled with Internationals, some of them World Cup winners. So at what point is it legitimate to question the basic competency of the genius at the wheel? Soon, tomorrow, next season, never? How much evidence is required before the dominant factor in a catalogue of failures can be legitimately identified? This is the man who starts Flamini against Barcelona in a "making the impossible possible" final throw of our seasonal dice, because you can be sure of one thing - we are out of the title hunt, again. This is the man who has watched all his major rivals fall away (along with his laundry list of money excuses) and yet finds his team not left at the top by default but in a fight for 4th place. This is a man who has methodically destroyed the flowing and potent game we used to play and transformed it into a purposeless, depressing plod. The man who gets to review the squad every summer and consistently leaves us short in key areas. The man who presides over an injury list that has become a club tradition.

So answer a question. When is it legitimate to question his competency? Why is it automatically bollocks to examine what the evidence is screaming and why is it any more legitimate to suggest the problem lies elsewhere?

You won't answer because you are still sulking over something that happened weeks ago. But maybe somebody else can pick up the thread and press you on this.

[Munchies]

Wenger just said

“We need to increase the quality of our game then the strikers will benefit. We have quality strikers."

https://twitter.com/Arsenal/status/710759360155291648

Holy shit.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKqQGYjCAAAmQLE.jpg

[Letters]

This isn't about managers or players or much else reallt anymore for me.

I'm just fucked off with the whole thing. It was a family thing for me, family then friends and that was bound to the club. They've taken that from me. Wenger, board, players, football....they don't give a fuck either, so why should I.

Bollocks to em. Got a young lad, and another baby on the way. Club has fucked itself for me....my dad took me as a nipper....will I fuck subject my kids to that. We're off to my local non-league team...

Arsenal can fuck emselfs to hell. They and the corrupt core of football has ruined it.

:shrug:

True dat.

Football is screwed. The money men have came in and robbed the game from under us and we're all complicit. The money all comes from us ultimately, we keep buying the shirts, filling the grounds, subscribing to the PPV channels. Well, you might not these days and nor to I. But enough do to keep sustaining it. I was thinking this morning how when I was a kid, which wasn't that long ago, the season ticket was £200ish, there was one small Arsenal shop near the Clock End which did shirts and maybe scarves and a few bits but that was it. Now we have a whole chain of megastores where you can decorate your home with Arsenal everything, it's £60 a game to get through the door and Sky and BT make you pay through the nose to watch.
And actually this isn't new - I re-read 'Fever Pitch' recently and Hornby was lamenting the same sort of thing and that was in the early 90s and he was thinking about how it had changed since the 70s.
And, of course, it all feels worse when things aren't going well in terms of results.

There are signs the tide is turning but it will take mass disillusionment and people switching off en masse for things to really change

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger just said

“We need to increase the quality of our game then the strikers will benefit. We have quality strikers."

https://twitter.com/Arsenal/status/710759360155291648

Holy shit.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKqQGYjCAAAmQLE.jpg

He's trying to defend his incompetence in the summer transfer window. It's never his fault. He knows best even when reality says otherwise.

[Niall_Quinn]

True dat.

Football is screwed. The money men have came in and robbed the game from under us and we're all complicit. The money all comes from us ultimately, we keep buying the shirts, filling the grounds, subscribing to the PPV channels. Well, you might not these days and nor to I. But enough do to keep sustaining it. I was thinking this morning how when I was a kid, which wasn't that long ago, the season ticket was £200ish, there was one small Arsenal shop near the Clock End which did shirts and maybe scarves and a few bits but that was it. Now we have a whole chain of megastores where you can decorate your home with Arsenal everything, it's £60 a game to get through the door and Sky and BT make you pay through the nose to watch.
And actually this isn't new - I re-read 'Fever Pitch' recently and Hornby was lamenting the same sort of thing and that was in the early 90s and he was thinking about how it had changed since the 70s.
And, of course, it all feels worse when things aren't going well in terms of results.

There are signs the tide is turning but it will take mass disillusionment and people switching off en masse for things to really change

And we still had Liam Brady, £200 ticket, little shop and all. And the football was better. Don't care what any of the pundits try to convince me of in order to fill their pockets based on fantasies, the worst bit is the football has gone down the shitter. I could hold my nose and tolerate the rest if the game was worth watching.

[Power n Glory]

Any team can lose a game on their bad day . What frustrates with the Arsenal is not the games they are losing but the manner they tend to be losing those games . They sometimes look like robots on the pitch who have been programmed to play in a certain way and can't change until the programmer changes the data . They make the same mistakes even when it is obvious what they doing is not working. They insist with their rubbish zonal markings . They give too much spaces to other teams to punish them . They make silly passes in their own final third and end up losing the ball putting themselves under unnecessary pressure . They are reluctant to break any play and always make tackles when it too late . They make one passe too many and refuse to shoot when in good position. They panick in from of goal , lose their cool and end up regretting those missed opportunities .
Someone will point their finger at Wenger but we are talking about professional footballers who amassed thousands of pounds and should be made accountable for their actions.

:gp: That's a really good post.

It’s an endless cycle. Wenger can’t be counted on to change or influence anything positive to come from this team. I’ve given up on him learning any new tricks or pushing himself. But now I’m back to not understanding why certain players can’t just show some initiative? We have some players with zero intelligence. Ramsey is a key example of that and the way he plays in the midfield. How comes he doesn’t understand that he needs to focus on moving the ball forward quicker and good positioning and not just moving himself forward quicker in hope that someone finds him? I’m so glad he’s injured and Elneny is showing him how it’s done.

Walcott is another one I’ve lost patience with. I’ve never thought of him as a winger because he’s so limited when it comes to dribbling. But since coming back from injury and being played out wide again, he’s doing no wing work, not touching the ball, looking to link up play or put in crosses…he’s solely focused on scoring. He’s often been accused of lacking a football brain but the examples used to determine that are just rubbish. When he’s being played on the wing and has no idea how to affect the game with the attributes he has, that’s when I question his intelligence. How many games do you have to go without a touch and how many times do you have to sit on the bench until you realise you need to do more? Off the ball runs all game won’t help the team!

I could go on forever about this sort of thing. Where is the self-analysis from the players? Has Sanchez looked at his passing percentages each game and the amount of times he gives the ball away? Has Ozil looked at the amount of shots he takes per game? Does Giroud think wrestling with defenders on the edge of the box is helpful for the team? All of them need to really up their game. I’ve already concluded our manager is past his prime but right now, I feel like we have some gutless players. It’s bloody embarrassing seeing them tank so badly.

[Niall_Quinn]

:gp: That's a really good post.

It’s an endless cycle. Wenger can’t be counted on to change or influence anything positive to come from this team. I’ve given up on him learning any new tricks or pushing himself. But now I’m back to not understanding why certain players can’t just show some initiative? We have some players with zero intelligence. Ramsey is a key example of that and the way he plays in the midfield. How comes he doesn’t understand that he needs to focus on moving the ball forward quicker and good positioning and not just moving himself forward quicker in hope that someone finds him? I’m so glad he’s injured and Elneny is showing him how it’s done.

Walcott is another one I’ve lost patience with. I’ve never thought of him as a winger because he’s so limited when it comes to dribbling. But since coming back from injury and being played out wide again, he’s doing no wing work, not touching the ball, looking to link up play or put in crosses…he’s solely focused on scoring. He’s often been accused of lacking a football brain but the examples used to determine that are just rubbish. When he’s being played on the wing and has no idea how to affect the game with the attributes he has, that’s when I question his intelligence. How many games do you have to go without a touch and how many times do you have to sit on the bench until you realise you need to do more? Off the ball runs all game won’t help the team!

I could go on forever about this sort of thing. Where is the self-analysis from the players? Has Sanchez looked at his passing percentages each game and the amount of times he gives the ball away? Has Ozil looked at the amount of shots he takes per game? Does Giroud think wrestling with defenders on the edge of the box is helpful for the team? All of them need to really up their game. I’ve already concluded our manager is past his prime but right now, I feel like we have some gutless players. It’s bloody embarrassing seeing them tank so badly.

If Ramsey moved to Leicester, if he was installed in the center, do you think he would play backwards and sideways all the time? What about Walcott? If he moved to Man City would his role be to come deep and pick up the ball with his back to goal? Do these players lack intelligence or are they fucked over by a higher "intelligence"?

[Niall_Quinn]

More from the maestro.


Arsène Wenger has played down reports linking Arsenal with a summer move for Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Speculation in recent days has linked the Sweden international with a move to the Emirates Stadium - with Arsenal expected to go into the transfer market for a new striker, with recent profligacy in front of goal one of the main reasons for their current slump.

“Look, at the moment, no,” Wenger said when asked if there was interest in Ibrahimovic.

“We are not on that case. We have other worries at the moment. It’s short-term. We are not on Zlatan’s case. Even at 34, he’s had a great season at PSG.”

“At the moment you can understand my priority ahead of Everton is not the transfer market on signings next season.

“I’m just surprised by the name you’ve thrown at me. We’re not thinking of signing anybody at the moment.”

No problem with most of that and I don't think we should be looking for a 34 year old temperamental and short term solution. But that last line is Wenger all over. Really? We aren't thinking of signings at the moment? Why not? We should be. As soon as that window opens we should be in a position to get our business done. When do we start thinking about it? In August as usual.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKqQGYjCAAAmQLE.jpg[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Munchies;506505]Wenger just said

“We need to increase the quality of our game then the strikers will benefit. We have quality strikers."

https://twitter.com/Arsenal/status/710759360155291648

I love how the complete opposite is true, the season we got to the European cup final and were absolutely fucking terrible in the league (yes I know you can say what's the difference between that and most seasons).

But the point is we had Thierry Henry in the side who despite being top goslscorer for us, we had nine games from nineteen away from home where we couldn't score simply because no chances were being created.
(Henry was getting most of his goals at Highbury)

Now it's the opposite, something ridiculous like 19 shots on goal against Barcelona at the nou camp, very few of which were speculative efforts because we generally don't do that, yet only three of those shots on target.

Don't get me wrong no one is claiming the overall quality of the game is brilliant, there is often no intensity there apart from two or three minute bursts. But what id argue is that if even when your making lung busting runs forward and making great play when the idiot in front of you skews wide, your intensity will naturally drop.

[Letters]

So answer a question. When is it legitimate to question his competency?

It's always legitimate. But are we not able to do that without calling him a **** or all the other hyperbole we get on here? Do we have to divide ourselves into 'tribes'? I see terms like 'Wengerist' or 'WOB' (Wenger Our Brigade) or 'AKB' (Arsene Knows Best). It seems it's not valid to think that Wenger has basically done a pretty good job over the lasr 10 years, although at times should have done better. The new money has made a difference in terms of signings and trophies but he's failed to push us on for the bigger prizes. This was his last chance to do so, for me, and so I now want him gone. That doesn't mean I think he's a complete incompetent and hope he dies in a fire.

As I said on another thread, on Valentine's Day we beat Leicester we were 2 points off the top, still in all the Cups. 1 win in 8 games later and we're out of everything. I've said consistently that while we're in the title race this season I'll support him, now we're not so I won't.


You won't answer because you are still sulking over something that happened weeks ago

Grow up :good:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Hyperbole is hyperbole, it is intrinsically disrespectful but this is forums for you

It's different from screaming at him that he's a Cunt like at Stoke station which I think is incredibly wrong

I've called Wenger the c word loads of times during games out of frustration, but in the cold light of day there are people I genuinely think are cunts but I don't include him amongst them. I think he's a tactical dinosaur and head shakingly stubborn but I think he cares about the club he's just totally unable to help it in a meaningful way.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Unfortunately because of his stubbornness his departure from the club is unlikely to be without acrimony

Which although will be as much of his own making.

I just really hope that he decides things aren't working and that he's given the send off fit for a club legend in our last home game against Aston Villa.

No one who has given us so many fantastic memories deserves any less.

[Niall_Quinn]

[QUOTE=Niall_Quinn;506504]So answer a question. When is it legitimate to question his competency?

It's always legitimate. But are we not able to do that without calling him a **** or all the other hyperbole we get on here? Do we have to divide ourselves into 'tribes'? I see terms like 'Wengerist' or 'WOB' (Wenger Our Brigade) or 'AKB' (Arsene Knows Best). It seems it's not valid to think that Wenger has basically done a pretty good job over the lasr 10 years, although at times should have done better. The new money has made a difference in terms of signings and trophies but he's failed to push us on for the bigger prizes. This was his last chance to do so, for me, and so I now want him gone. That doesn't mean I think he's a complete incompetent and hope he dies in a fire.

As I said on another thread, on Valentine's Day we beat Leicester we were 2 points off the top, still in all the Cups. 1 win in 8 games later and we're out of everything. I've said consistently that while we're in the title race this season I'll support him, now we're not so I won't.

[QUOTE]You won't answer because you are still sulking over something that happened weeks ago[QUOTE]

Grow up :good:

Never once called him a cunt. And why do you censor yourself btw? Are you better than some people, is that it? Do you think by placing an asterisk over what is already easily determinable you somehow separate yourself from the herd and rise to a higher plane? Cunt, cunt, cunt, cunt, cunt. It's that easy. People already know what you mean so guess what, they aren't going to be shocked or think less of you. It's all about the context. Anyway.

It was INEVITABLE that Wenger would fuck up. Inevitable. So holding out and supporting him until he inevitably fucked up was a waste. We could have had him out the door before he fucked up. That's what would have been good for Arsenal. Here's another thing. Wenger will stay on, because he's totally self absorbed, and he'll harm the club again. And he will absolutely fuck up. Take it to the bank.

The grow up thing is a beauty. I'm not going to explain it to you. Figure it out for yourself.

[Niall_Quinn]

Hyperbole is hyperbole, it is intrinsically disrespectful but this is forums for you

It's different from screaming at him that he's a Cunt like at Stoke station which I think is incredibly wrong

I've called Wenger the c word loads of times during games out of frustration, but in the cold light of day there are people I genuinely think are cunts but I don't include him amongst them. I think he's a tactical dinosaur and head shakingly stubborn but I think he cares about the club he's just totally unable to help it in a meaningful way.

I think Wenger is deluded. As such it's hard to blame him for his idiocy. By idiot, I'm using the definition; "One deficient in judgement and good sense", so I believe it to be entirely legitimate. Other's are saying the same thing but without cutting to the chase. He *is* and idiot. The facts bear this out.

He's also incompetent. That can hardly be argued against. Look at the record. If that's not incompetence then there is no such thing. Incompetence; "inability to do something successfully; ineptitude."

I don't think there's any need for hyperbole. The facts are perfectly sufficient and the language to fit the facts is appropriate.

If this criticism was being raised after 1 or 2 seasons of non-performance (as it is for most fans) then fair enough, it could be seen as an over-reaction. Even then it would be partially justified as that's the reality of football. But 10 seasons? Not a single win in the knock-out stages of the CL since 2010? The words being used describe precisely what Wenger has delivered. If they give offence there's a temptation to say, fuck off! But let's be kind and politically correct so we don't offend the sensibilities of the CUNTS who worry about these things.

Wenger is MINIMALLY EXCEPTIONAL.

Are we all happy now?

[Niall_Quinn]

Unfortunately because of his stubbornness his departure from the club is unlikely to be without acrimony

Which although will be as much of his own making.

I just really hope that he decides things aren't working and that he's given the send off fit for a club legend in our last home game against Aston Villa.

No one who has given us so many fantastic memories deserves any less.

Entirely of his own making. Wenger is like Ahab's doppelganger in reverse. Obsessed with the whale but in a perverse way that sees him sailing as fast as he can to avoid it at all costs. I agree, Villa is his last chance to get out of here without it becoming painful.

And in the end, is the whole club built around what Wenger feels or how he is respected? If those considerations are not secondary to success on the pitch then all is lost anyway. Ideally you have results and respect. But the results are the essential part of that. Don't be expecting respect for failure, how ridiculous would that be? He has enough capital to get out with a legacy intact. If he takes the opportunity.

[Power n Glory]

If Ramsey moved to Leicester, if he was installed in the center, do you think he would play backwards and sideways all the time? What about Walcott? If he moved to Man City would his role be to come deep and pick up the ball with his back to goal? Do these players lack intelligence or are they fucked over by a higher "intelligence"?

I can't really answer that. What's the point in speculating? We're in the here and now. You won't find me putting up much of a fight when it comes to Wenger. I've lost a lot of respect for his ability and have zero faith in him. But I don't think the players are as shackled to a philosophy as we assume. Look how Elneny is playing as CM and contrast that with what Ramsey's been doing. How comes it's so damn drastic? How comes they function so damn differently but are supposed to be playing the same role? Why is it that Cazorla is able to step into that role and adjust his game to sit deeper and not always look to be in the final third/box but Ramsey can't? Now that Elneny has arrived, how comes he knows what that role requires but Ramsey doesn't? I blame the manager for not slapping Ramsey and not correcting him but where is the self analysis from Ramsey? It really does piss me off.

[Letters]

If Ramsey moved to Leicester, if he was installed in the center, do you think he would play backwards and sideways all the time? What about Walcott? If he moved to Man City would his role be to come deep and pick up the ball with his back to goal? Do these players lack intelligence or are they fucked over by a higher "intelligence"?

Little bit both. But my impression of Wenger is that he doesn't give players that much direction, he just lets them play their game. So they don't get off the hook, they can surely see that moving the ball so slowly isn't working. Move it quicker you twats. I don't agree with an earlier post where you said that every time we get a clear sight of goal we pass it sideways. The big problem I see is we're not getting enough clear sights of goals and that's because we move the ball forward so slowly that by the time we get to the edge of the area there's a wall of defenders to get through. We don't stretch teams enough. Surely the players don't need to be told that.

[Niall_Quinn]

I can't really answer that. What's the point in speculating? We're in the here and now. You won't find me putting up much of a fight when it comes to Wenger. I've lost a lot of respect for his ability and have zero faith in him. But I don't think the players are as shackled to a philosophy as we assume. Look how Elneny is playing as CM and contrast that with what Ramsey's been doing. How comes it's so damn drastic? How comes they function so damn differently but are supposed to be playing the same role? Why is it that Cazorla is able to step into that role and adjust his game to sit deeper and not always look to be in the final third/box but Ramsey can't? Now that Elneny has arrived, how comes he knows what that role requires but Ramsey doesn't? I blame the manager for not slapping Ramsey and not correcting him but where is the self analysis from Ramsey? It really does piss me off.

Let's look at Elneny. He's a CL player, don't forget. He arrived here and Wenger promptly stated he wasn't ready for the PL. Is Elneny playing because he's another of those happy wins forced on Wenger by injuries? Let's give him another year under Wenger and see what happens. I think we both know.

[Niall_Quinn]

Little bit both. But my impression of Wenger is that he doesn't give players that much direction, he just lets them play their game. So they don't get off the hook, they can surely see that moving the ball so slowly isn't working. Move it quicker you twats. I don't agree with an earlier post where you said that every time we get a clear sight of goal we pass it sideways. The big problem I see is we're not getting enough clear sights of goals and that's because we move the ball forward so slowly that by the time we get to the edge of the area there's a wall of defenders to get through. We don't stretch teams enough. Surely the players don't need to be told that.

Even if that was true it would mean we have a massive problem surely? A manager that doesn't manage? I don't buy it. I believe he manages to a micro level. He has his finger in every pie. I think he should just go away. The slow game thing is him. These players can play with pace if need be. We've seen it. Look at the last 10 mins against Watford. How can we suddenly play like that? Are we saying the players can't be arsed for 80 minutes? Then suddenly, with the freedom they are granted by Wenger, they decide to play? So if that's true it;s Wenger's fault again. He should be slaughtering them for wasting 80 minutes, and then doing something about it.

It's him.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I agree that respecting Wenger and sentiment should be secondary that's why I think he should go at the end of this season and not let things drag out till the end of his contract.

But I maintain, that if he stepped down and by doing so tacitly admitted the delusion and incompetence you have correctly pinpointed, I think he'd go a long way to redeeming himself in my eyes and the Villa home game should under such circumstances be an unequivocal homage paying ceremony (as Malcolm Tucker would say the soapy tit wank goodbye).

[Letters]

It was INEVITABLE that Wenger would fuck up. Inevitable.
Yeah. Just like it was INEVITABLE we would be 10 points off the top after 8 games (we weren't).
Or that we were out of the CL after the first two group games (we weren't).
Both things you confidently predicted.

:shrug:

So yeah, pat yourself on the back if you like about your 'prescience' but many of your predictions have been wrong this season. You were as hopeful as a lot of us that Wenger could push us on 2 years ago, you backed his contract extension on the back of the FA Cup. Maybe you lost patience with him earlier than me, there is a case that he should have been sacked last year because of the lack of a title challenge. I think the FA Cup bought him one last chance. But it wasn't INEVITABLE that it would go wrong because 2 years ago the goalposts changed. The new financial power HAS made a difference - to the transfer dealings (Ozil and Sanchez, one of the highest net spends in the league) and the trophy cabinet. It wasn't a given that Wenger would fail to push us on to the bigger prizes. He's done it before, we all hoped he'd do it again. It's increasingly clear he can't but that doesn't mean it was obvious all along he wouldn't or that everything he's done in the last 10 years has been wrong.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Even if that was true it would mean we have a massive problem surely? A manager that doesn't manage? I don't buy it. I believe he manages to a micro level. He has his finger in every pie. I think he should just go away. The slow game thing is him. These players can play with pace if need be. We've seen it. Look at the last 10 mins against Watford. How can we suddenly play like that? Are we saying the players can't be arsed for 80 minutes? Then suddenly, with the freedom they are granted by Wenger, they decide to play? So if that's true it;s Wenger's fault again. He should be slaughtering them for wasting 80 minutes, and then doing something about it.

It's him.

I'm more inclined to agree with Letters here but actually would suggest that it's a damning inditement. Although we are starting to see it in the big games there isn't a sense of managing a team to play an opponent....going out to play your game is essentially the same as short passing, slow build up to players that are more technical than pace.

I do blame the players in the sense that how can they not have the hunger to put it on the line despite the lack of direction from the manager, but ultimately why are we paying him 8million a year not to manage.

I do think there is an overriding style template imposed by Wenger to emulate Guardiolas tikka takka game, but I think the template has been twisted and there isn't one consistent style of play other than shoehorning players into the same formation, instead of dropping Ramsey playing him on the right....one of countless examples of playing players in wide positions who've no business being there....Arshavin, Cazorla etc who invariably cut inside and make the play narrower.

To a degree Sanchez does it as well, and we largely reliant on Monreal and Bellerin to put in crosses.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah. Just like it was INEVITABLE we would be 10 points off the top after 8 games (we weren't).
Or that we were out of the CL after the first two group games (we weren't).
Both things you confidently predicted.

:shrug:

So yeah, pat yourself on the back if you like about your 'prescience' but many of your predictions have been wrong this season. You were as hopeful as a lot of us that Wenger could push us on 2 years ago, you backed his contract extension on the back of the FA Cup. Maybe you lost patience with him earlier than me, there is a case that he should have been sacked last year because of the lack of a title challenge. I think the FA Cup bought him one last chance. But it wasn't INEVITABLE that it would go wrong because 2 years ago the goalposts changed. The new financial power HAS made a difference - to the transfer dealings (Ozil and Sanchez, one of the highest net spends in the league) and the trophy cabinet. It wasn't a given that Wenger would fail to push us on to the bigger prizes. He's done it before, we all hoped he'd do it again. It's increasingly clear he can't but that doesn't mean it was obvious all along he wouldn't or that everything he's done in the last 10 years has been wrong.

My predictions haven't been wrong at all. The timing was wrong, that's all. But I won't be patting myself on the back. It's no great thing to predict an outcome that happens every year. As for the losing patience thing, you're right, this has timed out differently for individual fans. This patience will have been built on several things, but not results. Once the inertia has been overcome it gives you a chance to look at the whole. He should have been sacked years ago. Some fans saw it early and I don't think back-patting is warranted there either. I doubt any of them wanted to see the manager collapse in the way he has. I can't imagine there's a single Arsenal fan that wouldn't have wanted to see Wenger's early years being duplicated in the later years. Regardless of when individuals eventually twigged (and both of us are latecomers) Wenger's record is appalling. All the shit he served up prior to this season was a clear enough indicator of just how massively he might fuck up. This season he has delivered what every season before has threatened. I'm not going to list all the reasons why this season confirms just how poor he is.

[Munchies]

Speaking of strikers...

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger reveals he tried signing Everton star Romelu Lukaku

ARSENE WENGER has revealed ahead of the trip to Goodison Park that he tried to sign Romelu Lukaku when he was still playing in Belgium.
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/653629/Arsenal-boss-Arsene-Wenger-signing-Everton-star-Romelu-Lukaku-Transfer-News-Gossip

:haha:

another one

[Niall_Quinn]

Speaking of strikers...

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger reveals he tried signing Everton star Romelu Lukaku

ARSENE WENGER has revealed ahead of the trip to Goodison Park that he tried to sign Romelu Lukaku when he was still playing in Belgium.
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/653629/Arsenal-boss-Arsene-Wenger-signing-Everton-star-Romelu-Lukaku-Transfer-News-Gossip

:haha:

another one

Why doesn't he shut up? His own fans are laughing at him. All of football is laughing at him.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He's like the Donald Trump of the transfer market

"I could have had sex with Princess Diana"

[Kano]

As long as Dick Law and co go back in with a proper offer this summer, hopefully we'll land him.

[Letters]

My predictions haven't been wrong at all. The timing was wrong, that's all..
:lol:

I bet it's heads
*flips* Tails.
I bet it's heads
*flips* Tails.
I bet it's heads
*flips* Tails.
I bet it's heads
*flips* Heads
Told ya :cool:

You say "He should have been sacked years ago" and yet 2 years ago you backed his contract renewal on the back of the FA Cup. He was a safe pair of hands when the money wasn't as readily available. When it became available it DID make a difference in terms of a new level of signings and resultant trophies. Now it's clear that he's not able to push us further but it wasn't clear years ago because we didn't then have the money to compete as seriously. Now we do, it's made a difference but not enough of one. He deserved a couple of years to try, the FA Cup retention arguably bought him one more try but this was the last chance. He's cocked it up so yes, he has to go, but it wasn't inevitable he would. The weaknesses he has are not sudden developments, they have always been there and didn't stop us winning big trophies before.

Maybe another manager would have been better in the last 10 years but I would suggest plenty would have been worse. He's not been as poor as you make out and our failure this year wasn't inevitable.

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol:

I bet it's heads
*flips* Tails.
I bet it's heads
*flips* Tails.
I bet it's heads
*flips* Tails.
I bet it's heads
*flips* Heads
Told ya :cool:

You say "He should have been sacked years ago" and yet 2 years ago you backed his contract renewal on the back of the FA Cup. He was a safe pair of hands when the money wasn't as readily available. When it became available it DID make a difference in terms of a new level of signings and resultant trophies. Now it's clear that he's not able to push us further but it wasn't clear years ago because we didn't then have the money to compete as seriously. Now we do, it's made a difference but not enough of one. He deserved a couple of years to try, the FA Cup retention arguably bought him one more try but this was the last chance. He's cocked it up so yes, he has to go, but it wasn't inevitable he would. The weaknesses he has are not sudden developments, they have always been there and didn't stop us winning big trophies before.

Maybe another manager would have been better in the last 10 years but I would suggest plenty would have been worse. He's not been as poor as you make out and our failure this year wasn't inevitable.

Letters, you need to read the responses if you want to have a two way conversation.

As for your analogy, why do you need a coin to predict what happens at Arsenal every season? when the same thing happens every time you don't need the coin. Give the coin to Wenger and his mates, to add to all the other ones.

[Letters]

Re Wenger's management (or lack thereof) of the team and the way we play.

This is not a new thing. Wenger has always been like this. He sets the team up to play a certain way but gives the players freedom too. People keep on picking up faults Wenger has and acting like he's suddenly developed these faults. He hasn't.

Wenger's job is results, When he won big trophies it was because we had a better team than everyone else. He let the players express themselves and they did the rest, helped by a strong captain. Now we don't have a strong captain and we don't have a better side than everyone else and with the money sloshing around in the game we're unlikely to again.

BUT we do have a better team than most. We have a better team than Swansea, or Watford, or a very weakened Utd side. The players don't get off the hook for those results. IMO the lack of a strong captain to demand more of them in games like that - Wenger has always needed that to help him - is the biggest factor in our recent collapse.

But, ultimately, Wenger is responsible for results. The buck stops with him. But I don't absolve the players of blame. You shouldn't need a manager to kick you up the collective backside when you're 2 nil down against Watford and you're going out of the Cup. They showed in the last 10 minutes what they can play like, just get going 10 minutes earlier and we'd have won. The twats.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The last four seasons have followed an incredibly specific pattern

12/13 - terrible first half of season, good run of form second half when no chance of winning title
13/14 - in contention first half of the season, collapse in February/March
14/15 - copy and paste from 12/13
15/16 - copy and paste from 13/14

Last four seasons in champions league finished 2nd in group, lost first leg at home

And the FA cup wins are the equivalent of the Raquel Welch poster in Shawshank Redemption

[Özim]

Re Wenger's management (or lack thereof) of the team and the way we play.

This is not a new thing. Wenger has always been like this. He sets the team up to play a certain way but gives the players freedom too. People keep on picking up faults Wenger has and acting like he's suddenly developed these faults. He hasn't.

Wenger's job is results, When he won big trophies it was because we had a better team than everyone else. He let the players express themselves and they did the rest, helped by a strong captain. Now we don't have a strong captain and we don't have a better side than everyone else and with the money sloshing around in the game we're unlikely to again.

This totally his fault, if we don't have a strong captain it's because he publicly said he doesn't see the important of a captain, there lies the problem, he never looks for leadership in players because he doesn't feel it's necessary. If you manage the way he does then you need to make sure you have certain players who do the job you can't.



But, ultimately, Wenger is responsible for results. The buck stops with him. But I don't absolve the players of blame. You shouldn't need a manager to kick you up the collective backside when you're 2 nil down against Watford and you're going out of the Cup. They showed in the last 10 minutes what they can play like, just get going 10 minutes earlier and we'd have won. The twats.

If you go out and sign players with no leadership and players who require motivation rather than doing things off their own back you do need a manager to do this, he doesn't make up for hsi inadequacies by looking for players who can make up for them, again totally his fault.

If he can't motivate a team or tactically drill them and setup them up to succeed and he needs players to do their own thing (not great management IMO) then he should sign players who can do the job, not rely on kids and muppets with no leadership or organisational skills whatsoever.

[Niall_Quinn]

Re Wenger's management (or lack thereof) of the team and the way we play.

This is not a new thing. Wenger has always been like this. He sets the team up to play a certain way but gives the players freedom too. People keep on picking up faults Wenger has and acting like he's suddenly developed these faults. He hasn't.

Wenger's job is results, When he won big trophies it was because we had a better team than everyone else. He let the players express themselves and they did the rest, helped by a strong captain. Now we don't have a strong captain and we don't have a better side than everyone else and with the money sloshing around in the game we're unlikely to again.

BUT we do have a better team than most. We have a better team than Swansea, or Watford, or a very weakened Utd side. The players don't get off the hook for those results. IMO the lack of a strong captain to demand more of them in games like that - Wenger has always needed that to help him - is the biggest factor in our recent collapse.

But, ultimately, Wenger is responsible for results. The buck stops with him. But I don't absolve the players of blame. You shouldn't need a manager to kick you up the collective backside when you're 2 nil down against Watford and you're going out of the Cup. They showed in the last 10 minutes what they can play like, just get going 10 minutes earlier and we'd have won. The twats.

I don't absolve the players either. As pointless as it might be, they should still be earning their considerable wages and paying due respect to the fans. What I'm saying is ALL the problems stem from Wenger. ALL of them. Not going through them one by one, unless you insist, but Wenger's mismanagement and his lack of ambition is the catalyst for every other fault. He's the control freak manager who has more power than any other manager in world football. He can't have his cake and eat it (except apparently he can). If the players aren't delivering then it falls to him to do something about that. It doesn't matter if the players themselves ought to be doing more. That should be their default position, they shouldn't have an option. Either play for the shirt or get out, and it's Wenger's job to make sure that happens.

Let's look at this using the scientific method. Both of us formed a hypothesis 2 years ago that anticipated better fortunes for the club due to increased revenues, better players and a long awaited trophy win. Then the seasons played out and now, with this season, we have very clear results. This means our hypothesis was WRONG. The proof does not tally with our predictions - probably because it's naive to base such predictions on hope. Therefore, despite the extra revenue, despite the better players, despite getting that trophy jinx off his back, Wenger is incapable of utilising those benefits to fulfil the stated long term aims of the club. Therefore he is not suitable to manage the club. The fact he has taken us backwards, coupled with the damning record of the last 10 years is a damning indictment of his suitability. A better hypothesis, in hindsight, would suggest had we sacked Wenger 2 years ago we'd be in a better position now. We can't prove it, because we took the other route and obtained a different set of results. However, what we can say with certainly, based on the evidence, is Wenger should be sacked. Today.

Others reached this conclusion a long time ago. They weren't prepared to give Wenger the benefit of the doubt and as it turns out they were right. Wherever fans stand now, whatever they predicted and when, the most important thing is that Wenger is sacked at the earliest possible moment. That is not happening and that leads us to an even bigger problem.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Re Wenger's management (or lack thereof) of the team and the way we play.

This is not a new thing. Wenger has always been like this. He sets the team up to play a certain way but gives the players freedom too. People keep on picking up faults Wenger has and acting like he's suddenly developed these faults. He hasn't.

Wenger's job is results, When he won big trophies it was because we had a better team than everyone else. He let the players express themselves and they did the rest, helped by a strong captain. Now we don't have a strong captain and we don't have a better side than everyone else and with the money sloshing around in the game we're unlikely to again.

BUT we do have a better team than most. We have a better team than Swansea, or Watford, or a very weakened Utd side. The players don't get off the hook for those results. IMO the lack of a strong captain to demand more of them in games like that - Wenger has always needed that to help him - is the biggest factor in our recent collapse.

But, ultimately, Wenger is responsible for results. The buck stops with him. But I don't absolve the players of blame. You shouldn't need a manager to kick you up the collective backside when you're 2 nil down against Watford and you're going out of the Cup. They showed in the last 10 minutes what they can play like, just get going 10 minutes earlier and we'd have won. The twats.
Our style of football has completely changed in that time as well though.

His 20 years are like two contrasting sides. The first 10 years was tough playing, fast, counter attacking football with the fancy stuff thrown in for fun because we could.

However the last 10 years have been slow, technical (technically bad tbh), tippy tappy, passing instead of shooting, boringly predictable, uninspiring, namby pamby, slow & boring drivel.

It's no surprise to see that when you take the decent game out of the players then the faults of wengers management and his 'vision' of how the game should be played are laid bare for all to see.

And he comes up drastically short.

[Özim]

Letters, you need to read the responses if you want to have a two way conversation.

As for your analogy, why do you need a coin to predict what happens at Arsenal every season? when the same thing happens every time you don't need the coin. Give the coin to Wenger and his mates, to add to all the other ones.

Same thing happens every season, we're the most predictable club in the world, you know before the season starts what's going to happen, yes people hope it will be different, but after years of the same hope begins to dissipate away and you're just waiting for the inevitable.

The manager and team have no bottle, buck stops with him though, he signs the players, coaches them and tells them what to do, not the other way round, if they don't show up or perform, they should be replaced or given some kinda motivation.

He doesn't do this so every season it's the same, not to mention the fact he has the audacity of relying on crocks who again are injured for long parts of every season and yet he continues to believe they'll manage to stay fit. He really needs his head examined tbh, because there's very little logic in his methods.

[Özim]

Our style of football has completely changed in that time as well though.

His 20 years are like two contrasting sides. The first 10 years was tough playing, fast, counter attacking football with the fancy stuff thrown in for fun because we could.

However the last 10 years have been slow, technical (technically bad tbh), tippy tappy, passing instead of shooting, boringly predictable, uninspiring, namby pamby, slow & boring drivel.

It's no surprise to see that when you take the decent game out of the players then the faults of wengers management and his 'vision' of how the game should be played are laid bare for all to see.

And he comes up drastically short.

The other amazing thing is for 10 years he's stuck with a method that hasn't worked and hasn't even tried to replicate the style of the team that brought him all that success, some say he's intelligent, in some ways perhaps but not in football terms.

[KSE Comedy Club]

The other amazing thing is for 10 years he's stuck with a method that hasn't worked and hasn't even tried to replicate the style of the team that brought him all that success, some say he's intelligent, in some ways perhaps but not in football terms.
Agreed, and worse still, he has continued to use the method using about 4 or 5 different teams of personnel each time hoping for a change in fortune.

It's hard to blame the players when they are realistically, just pawns in his never ending game of self obsessed chess.

[Özim]

Agreed, and worse still, he has continued to use the method using about 4 or 5 different teams of personnel each time hoping for a change in fortune.

It's hard to blame the players when they are realistically, just pawns in his never ending game of self obsessed chess.

In the end he signs the players, so if they're not good enough or lack motivation it's down to him. I agree players earing 100k shouldn't need motivating, but half of these guys haven't had to work to get a big pay day, it's been handed to them on a plate so it's not hard to understand why they don't think they need to bother too much, the money still keeps rolling in, again all down to Wenger.

If a player isn't performing then you need to put him in his place and if it doesn't work move him on and find someone who will work and perform.

Too many freeloaders, premadonnas and untouchables in Wenger's team, noone is allowed to say a word against them because in his opinion the effort and spirit is spot on, praise someone when it's deserved but criticise them when the time is right too.

[Letters]

And the FA cup wins are the equivalent of the Raquel Welch poster in Shawshank Redemption

:lol: Very good.

But they did offer some hope. New money, new level of signings, finally some trophies after so long.
There was some cause for thinking we could push on.

[Letters]

Our style of football has completely changed in that time as well though.

His 20 years are like two contrasting sides. The first 10 years was tough playing, fast, counter attacking football with the fancy stuff thrown in for fun because we could.

However the last 10 years have been slow, technical (technically bad tbh), tippy tappy, passing instead of shooting, boringly predictable, uninspiring, namby pamby, slow & boring drivel.

It's no surprise to see that when you take the decent game out of the players then the faults of wengers management and his 'vision' of how the game should be played are laid bare for all to see.

And he comes up drastically short.
I think he's trying to emulate Barca but I don't know why because frankly they're not all that great to watch. Their impressive, but they're not exhilarating to watch like we were back in the day.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think he's trying to emulate Barca but I don't know why because frankly they're not all that great to watch. Their impressive, but they're not exhilarating to watch like we were back in the day.

You said "their"

[Letters]

You said "their"

:(

Letters Out :angry:

[fakeyank]

What a useless mod.. time to make some changes at the top tbh. :coffee:

[Letters]

I don't absolve the players either. As pointless as it might be, they should still be earning their considerable wages and paying due respect to the fans. What I'm saying is ALL the problems stem from Wenger. ALL of them. Not going through them one by one, unless you insist, but Wenger's mismanagement and his lack of ambition is the catalyst for every other fault. He's the control freak manager who has more power than any other manager in world football. He can't have his cake and eat it (except apparently he can). If the players aren't delivering then it falls to him to do something about that. It doesn't matter if the players themselves ought to be doing more. That should be their default position, they shouldn't have an option. Either play for the shirt or get out, and it's Wenger's job to make sure that happens.

Let's look at this using the scientific method. Both of us formed a hypothesis 2 years ago that anticipated better fortunes for the club due to increased revenues, better players and a long awaited trophy win. Then the seasons played out and now, with this season, we have very clear results. This means our hypothesis was WRONG. The proof does not tally with our predictions - probably because it's naive to base such predictions on hope. Therefore, despite the extra revenue, despite the better players, despite getting that trophy jinx off his back, Wenger is incapable of utilising those benefits to fulfil the stated long term aims of the club. Therefore he is not suitable to manage the club. The fact he has taken us backwards, coupled with the damning record of the last 10 years is a damning indictment of his suitability. A better hypothesis, in hindsight, would suggest had we sacked Wenger 2 years ago we'd be in a better position now. We can't prove it, because we took the other route and obtained a different set of results. However, what we can say with certainly, based on the evidence, is Wenger should be sacked. Today.

Others reached this conclusion a long time ago. They weren't prepared to give Wenger the benefit of the doubt and as it turns out they were right. Wherever fans stand now, whatever they predicted and when, the most important thing is that Wenger is sacked at the earliest possible moment. That is not happening and that leads us to an even bigger problem.
Of course all problems stem from Wenger but so do all the good things too. And as sour as the mood has been recently let's not pretend there is nothing good about how things have gone over the last couple of years. The new level of signing did start to look like it was making a difference, 3rd and the FA Cup was a good platform to build on. We've failed to push on and that's why Wenger should go, but he's hardly leaving a car crash behind.

I agree our hypothesis - or hope, really - that Wenger would push us on with the new money was wrong. But that doesn't mean I need to revise my opinion that during the previous 8 years he basically did a pretty good job keeping us in the top 3 or 4 while all about us threw money around trying to unseat us (as many predicted repeatedly they would). And it doesn't mean that he is suddenly a bumbling incompetent and everything he does or says is wrong. He is not a "fucking tool" or "the biggest cock in football" as you were calling him in the match thread (while we were 2-0 up). There's a pretty big middle ground between thinking he's no longer the right man to push us on and thinking he's "the biggest cock in football". He clearly isn't.

It is possible that had we sacked Wenger 2 years ago we'd be in a better position but it is not a given. Utd hired the 'genius' Van Gaal to rescue them from the mess Moyes made, he spent a load of money in the summer, has Utd playing awful football and they currently have 9 fewer points than they did at this stage last year (for balance, I should add we have 5 fewer). It's unfair to judge Klopp this season but when he arrived amid much fanfare some of the more excitable people on here were all but declaring them title contenders. They were 10th when he took them over, now they're 9th. It's only fair to give him a couple of years to see where he can take them but his last season at Dortmund showed he's not the towering genius some have made him out to be.

So yes, we need to move on from Wenger. We're all but guaranteed to finish below Leicester and that isn't good enough. But we're fairly likely to finish above most if not all of the other clubs who are usually there or there abouts so he's not doing as much wrong as some make out and it's not valid to think that any idiot could take us over and we'd immediately improve.

We need to replace Wenger but we need to be careful about it because pick the wrong man and you're in mid-table and as Utd are finding out it's not easy to buy your way back in when you're there.

[Slacker]

There has been a gradual build-up with the grim realisation nothing was going to change when we fucked up against West Ham on opening day. Then we were so ravaged with injuries in fucking August that a very average Liverpool team looked world beaters. Nothing AW shouldn't have learnt from.

In the CL, Giroud's petulance cost us against Zagreb and Ospina conceded his second goal in a few months standing behind the goal line, proving that was never coached out of him. There have been near-misses since. Nothing AW shouldn't have learnt from.

Then the complete fool Gabriel took it upon himself to stamp on Costa and get himself sent off against Chelsea and we all knew then Costa and Mourinho would rub our noses in it, albeit the worst Chelsea team we've faced in years. We managed to beat Leicester comfortably after that and got our heads down a bit and things went right for a while, but then the wheels came off when AW sent out too many youngsters in front of a baying crowd at Hillsborough and we got dicked by Sheff Wed...

November was a typical Arsenal November. Dicked by Bayern, winning one solitary game against Zagreb, and contriving to fuck up against WBA and Norwich, games we should be winning if we have pretensions of being EPL winners. We also got a losing home draw against Spurs, where they played us off the park at home for the second year running...

Got our heads down again in December and did what was expected, excepting a complete fuck up against Southampton...

Everything else has been in recent memory, but the straw that broke the camel's back for me was when a player as poor as Routledge equalised for Swansea. I knew another donkey would go up and get a winner for them so turned off.

And no, I'm not fucking psychic.

[Letters]

A lot of those though are the ups and downs you get in any season.
It was the Utd/Swansea week that really 'broke' me. Just after we beat Leicester to go 2 points behind them we get 0 points from 2 games against sides we really should be beating. It was that which really killed our title hopes.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

If it was Coyle or Wenger what would people choose?

[GP]

If it was Coyle or Wenger what would people choose?

Wenger, obviously.

[Niall_Quinn]

If it was Coyle or Wenger what would people choose?

Coyle is the in-joke. Wenger is the joke who should be out. If I had to choose between them I'd pick Simeone.

[GP]

Arsenal's title race.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdyiU4nPw_I&feature=youtu.be

[alexander]

Arsenal's title race.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdyiU4nPw_I&feature=youtu.be

:trophy:

[Dicks and chicks]

the watford defeat hurt alot but Man united more so because they were really just incredibly weak team that we should have beaten

[Bumble]

If it was Coyle or Wenger what would people choose?

Does Coyle still manage?

The failure at United after Ferguson left has meant that the board are too scared to act on Wenger. So he will be here to stay for as long as he wants.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Liverpool away and Swansea at home.......Liverpool for the way we just couldn't see the game out and Swansea because it still baffles me how the team could not see the chance being offered and the fact that passion to win should not come around from time to time but should be ingrained in the every game mentality of every player......for that the manager has a case to answer for

[alexander]

I remember being pissed off when we drew with norwich, late November, and we picked up a few injuries in that game. I just looked back at the results around that time to remind me why I was, and to me its like we never really recovered from that dire November. We lost to Bayern, drew with spurs, lost to west brom, beat Dinamo, then drew with norwich. After that there were one or two good results, like beating Man City, and we picked up points, but mostly its been up and down since then (more down tbf). Most of the teams we did overcome were the real dross, but we got beaten by some crap too. The Swansea result stands out, not beating man U and Chelsea was also a mess up.
I think I was looking at our league position and judging us just on that a month or so back, but the fact we are even remotely near the top of the table with the results we have had is some kind of miracle.
Looking purely at a list of results from this season in all comps makes for dull and poor reading. we really have just been all over the place and our position really flatters us.

[Niall_Quinn]

Arsene Wenger insists he has 'no doubt' he will remain Arsenal manager next season.

The Frenchman has come under increasing pressure from fans with the Gunners title hopes in tatters after a disappointing run of results left the club 11 points behind Premier League leaders Leicester City with a game in hand.

However, Wenger is adamant he will not be leaving the Emirates and remains committed to the club.

Asked if there were any doubts he would be Arsenal boss next season, Wenger exclusively told beIN Sports: 'I have no doubt, no, because I am committed. When I do something I do it 100 per cent. I am always committed to give my best as long as I am at the club.'

Wenger, who is approaching two decades in the Arsenal hotseat, admitted criticism from supporters is 'not very welcome'.

Fans of the north London club are restless after the Gunners lost two consecutive matches - away at Manchester United and at home to Swansea - before a 2-2 with north London rivals Tottenham saw Wenger's side fall away from the leading pack.

Arsenal are third in the table after recovering from the slump to beat Everton 2-0 at Goodison Park but appear to have too much to do to claim a first title since 2004.

'Look you give your best,' he said. 'I think the criticism during the season is not very welcome when you fight for the championship; especially after the game against Tottenham, where we were unlucky.'

Despite the unrest from the stands, Wenger is not fazed by the discontent among fans and said: 'I don't worry too much about all the rest, what people say. All the rest is judgement, opinions, and that is linked with beliefs from the last results, our last disappointment, our last happiness.

'In my job you focus on what is important, to perform. I believe in life it's very important that you focus on what you are appointed for. I am appointed to perform and do the best for my club. It's all I focus on. My future is my future, I don't master that more than you.'

Arsenal have won three Premier League titles and six FA Cups during Wenger's time in charge but had a barren run from 2005 until 2014.

After falling at the last 16 stage in the Champions League for six straight seasons and while struggling on the domestic front, too, some fans feel the club is need of a change of management.

Wenger, though, feels he is giving his best to bring success to the club.

'I have my conscience,' said Wenger, who turns 67 in October. 'What is most important is that I give my best every day I work for the club I love.

'If I can share that love with the supporters it's even better. But at the end of the day I want to make sure I give my best.'

There are some fans out there who do not share the love of the club. They are not giving 100% to the club. They are full of judgement and opinions, they have short memories and they forget how we were unlucky against the spuds. They forget if we had not been unlucky against the spuds we would be top of the table now, and on course for our 14th consecutive CL final. They are unwelcome. Wenger is paid to perform and that is what he is doing, 100%. It is unlucky that performance has produced nothing of significance since 2005/6, except £80mill in wages.

Some fans need to get a clue rather than getting all angry when this guy speaks.

[fakeyank]

There are some fans out there who do not share the love of the club. They are not giving 100% to the club. They are full of judgement and opinions, they have short memories and they forget how we were unlucky against the spuds. They forget if we had not been unlucky against the spuds we would be top of the table now, and on course for our 14th consecutive CL final. They are unwelcome. Wenger is paid to perform and that is what he is doing, 100%. It is unlucky that performance has produced nothing of significance since 2005/6, except £80mill in wages.

Some fans need to get a clue rather than getting all angry when this guy speaks.

How many substitutions have you made in your life moran?