Wenger after 2017

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think we have all resigned ourselves to the fact that Wenger will still be the manager at the start of next season, however we have s**t stirrers like Piers Morgan who is trying to claim he has it on good authority that Wenger has already been given a new three year contract to sign.

We know that Wenger did not sign his last contract until after the season had ended in 2014, and has hinted that winning the FA cup was a crucial factor in his decision to sign on.

If we are in the same position next season failing to challenge for the title all the way till the end of the season, making no further progress in the champions league......do we think it possible that even if Wenger was offered a new contract that he'd be true to his word and refuse to sign it based on his assertion that he'd walk away when he felt he could take us no further?.

[Niall_Quinn]

This is a case of the fans' definition of success being based on outcomes entirely different to the club's definition. If you look at Wenger's performance from the perspective of the owners then he's the best manager on the planet and delivers exceptional success year after year with unbreakable consistency. As they have said, he's irreplaceable. Meanwhile Wenger appears to be delusional. From his own words he is incapable of accepting or even realising what a massive failure this season constitutes. He apparently believes the team is very close to greatness and simply "unlucky" not to have achieved it already.

Combine the undisguised greed of the owners with Wenger's mental deterioration and it seems a certainty he'll stay for as long as the board can tough it out in the face of rising resentment from a section of the fans. The club's anti-fan rhetoric has been ramped up considerably. There are still many fans, some influential, who buy it and prefer to beg for rather than demand a remedy to the major and growing problems at the club. Provided the fan base remains split Wenger can survive. Just look at the reaction to that banner. So many sickeningly obedient and compliant, complacent fools out there who won't hear a bad word about the rapists tearing their arseholes out.

[Globalgunner]

Wenger will not leave except he is hounded out. His life and existence is entirely intertwined with this job, because he knows there is no other one like it out there for him. The saddest part is that in his mind he truly believes he is doing an excellent job. That no one else could do better with the same resources. He states "I am dedicated 100% to this job" as if that is all that is needed. You can dedicate your life to being a painter and still be thoroughly crap at it.

[Bumble]

I think he will stay on for another contract and I think the board will agree to that. The board have no idea who could replace someone so ingrained and dominant in the whole current Arsenal set up. They will have looked at United and seen how much they have spent and what has happened to them over the last 3 years and if Wenger keeps getting CL football then how could you get rid of him from a board point of view as the money will still keep rolling on. With the new TV deal gate receipts don't make much difference now.

The only way Wenger will ever leave is if he dies or we drop out of the CL places. And I think the first will be more likely as we always seem to pull a result out of the hat when absolutely desperate for one.

[Özim]

Whatever happens if new contract is on the table Wenger will sign it, as long as he's happy with his performance then everything is good, trouble is he thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread and is always happy with it, he sets the parameters.

Wenger has said a lot of things over the years, many he's gone back on so you have to take his words with a pinch of salt when it comes to things like this.

We may as well rename the club Arsenel, everything about it is about him anyway, I just can't see a scenario where he'll leave at the moment therefore we're going to be also rans for quite some time yet.

[alexander]

considering how annoyed/fed up we are now, if he stays for another contract, would we all still be here moaning (I would really fear for NQs sanity then!!! :wwf:) or would we have given up and walked away from watching games or even checking results? (I gave up my silver membership a couple of years back as it became too much money to spend on an average team)

Personally, as bad as it gets, I will always be drawn to checking the scores, even though it doesnt get to me like it used to, but its dam well ingrained in me now, but in terms of money, they dont get any directly out of me anymore.

[Gooner23]

Haven't been to a game this season for the first time in a long time, and can't see myself going again until something changes. Just cannot justify the money on seeing the same mistakes being made and the blatant disregard by the club towards its fans.

Really not sure how I would feel if Wenger were to get another contract. Don't think I'd cut my ties completely but would find it very hard to fully support the club.

[Letters]

It would kinda be worth it to see NQ and Zim's reactions.

[Niall_Quinn]

It would kinda be worth it to see NQ and Zim's reactions.

My position has been clear for a while now. I think Wenger should be gone immediately, for a host of obvious and long-standing reasons. However, I also understand he's arrogant and selfish enough to hang on as long as possible and while he continues to rob the fans and shovel the cash into the owners' pockets he can pretty much write his own ticket. The thing that has changed over the last year is the urgency to get both Kroenke and Usmanov out of the club in order to reclaim it as a football focused organisation. Short of the most aggressive and sustained campaign by the fans I can't see it happening. So my reaction to Wenger signing a new contract would be to yawn at something so obvious and inevitable. None of these people can last forever, eventually they will be gone one way or another.

[Özim]

So my reaction to Wenger signing a new contract would be to yawn at something so obvious and inevitable. None of these people can last forever, eventually they will be gone one way or another.

Pretty much my reaction too, I've accepted the fact he's got the easiest and most secure job with the least pressure in football and that he thinks he's doing a sterling job regardless of what actually happens, he sets his own criteria so it's easy to see how he always pats himself on the back as the end of the season....on that basis if he stays it's not unexpected, very tedious and dull yes (watching paint dry is significantly more interesting than him lets be honest) but not unexpected.

So if he stays we just won't be competitive and will have to put up with his joke management for a bit longer at least (nothing new to us), nothing will change and there'll be nothing to be excited about, either in the summer or in the season.

[Globalgunner]

With all the new managers coming to the fore next season, coupled with the possibility, nay probability that either Leicester or Spurs will win this seasons league. There will be no hiding place next year, especially if Wenger digs his heels in and refuses to buy what is needed in the summer. The emperors butt crack is showing. Next season he will be fully dis-robed methinks

[Maestro]

With all the new managers coming to the fore next season, coupled with the possibility, nay probability that either Leicester or Spurs will win this seasons league. There will be no hiding place next year, especially if Wenger digs his heels in and refuses to buy what is needed in the summer. The emperors butt crack is showing. Next season he will be fully dis-robed methinks

:lol::lol:

well it will certainly be interesting. the average age of the good managers is now much lower and Wenget is now the oldest OAP in all of Europe's top leagues. Pochettino, Guardiola, Klopp, Bilic, Koeman and possibly Simeone, Conte and the devil himself Mourinho all in the mix next season ....oh it's about to get tasty

[fakeyank]

If he signs a new contract, I'll stop actively following Arsenal. Sure, I'll catch the games here and there but I dont think I'll put in the effort I have been putting in for almost 2 decades. Not waking up at 6am to watch this shower of shite after a heavy night of drinking.. fuck it!

Oh, and no more buying Arsenal apparel either! I think I donate at least a couple hundred quid every season!! :getcoat:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My red membership renewal gets taken from my account at the same time as my annual subs for the Labour Party.

As things stand I will likely divest myself of both, and save the money in my account.

[Kano]

If he signs a new contract, I'll stop actively following Arsenal. Sure, I'll catch the games here and there but I dont think I'll put in the effort I have been putting in for almost 2 decades. Not waking up at 6am to watch this shower of shite after a heavy night of drinking.. fuck it!

Oh, and no more buying Arsenal apparel either! I think I donate at least a couple hundred quid every season!! :getcoat:

bye

[Marc Overmars]

I'm not convinced he will sign a new deal, I just think this season is too much of a watershed moment in terms of opinion of him.

Though of course I wouldn't really be surprised if he stuck around, the old goat.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm not convinced he will sign a new deal, I just think this season is too much of a watershed moment in terms of opinion of him.

Though of course I wouldn't really be surprised if he stuck around, the old goat.


I'm not convinced he will either.......we have reached a point where the majority of fans want him gone, and the only reason he won't go before 2017 is because he has a twisted belief in honouring contracts.
Yes I don't think there is any doubt the board will convince him to stay but if it gets ugly next season I can see him thinking is it worth it, if things don't improve and there is little to indicate they will the atmosphere will become ugly and whilst he thinks the criticism is harsh (without any justification) to say he's unphased by it is clearly untrue.
He will be 67 at the end of his current contract a man who cannot delegate may well think, I just don't want all this anymore, even at eight million a year.

[Letters]

If he signs a new contract, I'll stop actively following Arsenal. Sure, I'll catch the games here and there but I dont think I'll put in the effort I have been putting in for almost 2 decades. Not waking up at 6am to watch this shower of shite after a heavy night of drinking.. fuck it!

Oh, and no more buying Arsenal apparel either! I think I donate at least a couple hundred quid every season!! :getcoat:

Thank you for your interest in our affairs :wave:

[Letters]

I've accepted the fact he's got the easiest and most secure job with the least pressure in football
:lol:

[selassie]

With all the new managers coming to the fore next season, coupled with the possibility, nay probability that either Leicester or Spurs will win this seasons league. There will be no hiding place next year, especially if Wenger digs his heels in and refuses to buy what is needed in the summer. The emperors butt crack is showing. Next season he will be fully dis-robed methinks

I honestly think things will remain as is, I can't see him changing his ways suddenly regardless of what happens this season.

For me it's a shame that he operates in this way, judging by his reaction to the fans/media questioning he seems to think that he is doing enough, whether that is enough to satisfy himself as well as the board remains open to questioning.

Next season is going to be interesting in terms of fans support, at the moment his stock with the fans is at an all-time low and I suspect more fans want him gone now than staying.

I think him extending his contract beyond next season depends a lot on the fans reaction, I don't think he will feel comfortable if the atmosphere continues to be poisonous from the start of next season.

[Niall_Quinn]

Jonathan Wilson with a bizarre article that contradicts itself at every turn.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/31/arsenal-oligarchs-tv-billions

He actually uses Leicester as a comparison without realising the comparison blows his argument to shreds. Then he tells us being very rich is less of an advantage when everyone is rich. Well we were never paupers, were we?

These tired old excuses need to be retired.

[Letters]

That article is pretty much spot on.

As for contradictions, it's interesting that the people who are saying the money thing with Chelsea and City is an 'excuse' are also saying that we should be finishing above Leicester because we have so much more money than them (which is right, we should, and that is also why the money thing isn't an excuse)

[Özim]

:lol:

Why is that funny? Getting paid 8 million to win nothing and never being under any pressure from the board seems pretty comfy to me, who wouldn't want a job like that?

[Niall_Quinn]

That article is pretty much spot on.

As for contradictions, it's interesting that the people who are saying the money thing with Chelsea and City is an 'excuse' are also saying that we should be finishing above Leicester because we have so much more money than them (which is right, we should, and that is also why the money thing isn't an excuse)

True, except for the fact people aren't saying we should finish above Leicester because we have more money than them. We should finish above them because we've supposedly, got better players than them, oh, and a world class manager - LOL. Truth is we have a manager who can't build a competitive team. Same old problem then. 12 years an counting. How long must we sing this song?

Wenger's ultra conservatism, fucked up ideas of value, crazed favouritism, one dimensional tactics, inability to motivate, etc, etc, these are the reasons why (despite the presence of chavs and gypo cash) we've failed on several occasions over the last decade to put in a challenge right to the finish line. Just a couple more players here (when we had the cash), or the desire to do more than be a 4th place champion - that's what has held us back. The fact Leicester have come along and demonstrated this has stripped the emperor bare for all to see.

[Dicks and chicks]

I hear Garde is avaliable......

[Özim]

That article is pretty much spot on.

As for contradictions, it's interesting that the people who are saying the money thing with Chelsea and City is an 'excuse' are also saying that we should be finishing above Leicester because we have so much more money than them (which is right, we should, and that is also why the money thing isn't an excuse)

We've got plenty of money, it's just we've chosen not to spend it (or should I say Wenger), that's where the problem is. The article once again deflects from the real problems, a manager who just won't do the necessary and time and time again wastes money on cheap options (spending on 4-5 lesser players in some cases rather than using that to sign world class players).

In addition, the clubs with money can only sign so many players, there's plenty for everyone, most of the time we sit there and wait like jackasses for "the market to move" because "we're in a waiting period" or "we only look for players better than we have", clubs who want to get better get their business done as early and quickly as possible, we just sit there.

We've got two billionaire's who own us and yet somehow unlike other clubs they don't seem to want to spend, seems to me they came to the club learnt how it works and cottoned on that not spending is the best way forward rather than going on a spree like the other billionaires.

In addition Leicester have a small squad and overall a weaker squad than us, so they shouldn't be competing for that reason, with our resources and our lack of success over the years we should also be very hungry to win, you get the feeling we're not 99% of the time when we walk on the pitch. Ah but wait let's not forget we're already winners, 4th place winners and that's just as good as the CL or League, so let's not be disappointed and pat ourselves on the back for our trophy cabinet full of imaginary 4th placed trophies.

[alexander]

I hear Garde is avaliable......

`Frenchman won two of 20 Premier League matches in charge of bottom club ` heh, thats pretty dam terrible, but he didnt exactly have much to work with :tumbleweed:

[Globalgunner]

We've got plenty of money, it's just we've chosen not to spend it (or should I say Wenger), that's where the problem is. The article once again deflects from the real problems, a manager who just won't do the necessary and time and time again wastes money on cheap options (spending on 4-5 lesser players in some cases rather than using that to sign world class players).

In addition, the clubs with money can only sign so many players, there's plenty for everyone, most of the time we sit there and wait like jackasses for "the market to move" because "we're in a waiting period" or "we only look for players better than we have", clubs who want to get better get their business done as early and quickly as possible, we just sit there.

We've got two billionaire's who own us and yet somehow unlike other clubs they don't seem to want to spend, seems to me they came to the club learnt how it works and cottoned on that not spending is the best way forward rather than going on a spree like the other billionaires.

In addition Leicester have a small squad and overall a weaker squad than us, so they shouldn't be competing for that reason, with our resources and our lack of success over the years we should also be very hungry to win, you get the feeling we're not 99% of the time when we walk on the pitch. Ah but wait let's not forget we're already winners, 4th place winners and that's just as good as the CL or League, so let's not be disappointed and pat ourselves on the back for our trophy cabinet full of imaginary 4th placed trophies.

Oh are you saying those trophies aint real.?
Seriously, we are our own worst enemies or do it on purpose which is what I think is going on. Wenger prefers to buy average players or buys what he thinks ae potentially world class players. This gives him time to work with them before success gets to their heads or lack of it makes them know their place. You dont here Wilshere or Walcott complaining do you. He buys world class players only when the pressure is on and the coterie of average joes fail repeatedly. But never enough of the world class to make up for the dross. In many instances the better players will be watching the clunkers from the bench while Wenger weaves his magic with them.

If the manager is not hungry for titles and neither is the owner, then only the fans rarely can tip the balance.
In truth we have never been short of money only the will to spend it and the only person who kept on making the case that others spending hindered us was Wenger, which Leicester are about to prove conclusively, is not true.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Jonathan Wilson with a bizarre article that contradicts itself at every turn.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/31/arsenal-oligarchs-tv-billions

He actually uses Leicester as a comparison without realising the comparison blows his argument to shreds. Then he tells us being very rich is less of an advantage when everyone is rich. Well we were never paupers, were we?

These tired old excuses need to be retired.

I don't think the article tries to exonerate Wenger to be fair, i think it just broadly paints a picture that Arsenal in trying to cut the gap between the big clubs and itself through increased matchday revenue has found itself in a situation where that kind of revenue is now largely irrelevant.

And regardless of what Wenger has or hasn't done off the field, that the project has failed for other factors that were unforeseeable

[Letters]

Why is that funny?
It's funny because I've explained to you over and over the pressure Wenger is under.
Like any employee he is under pressure to deliver what his bosses expect.
It seems that the board expects top 4 football of him which he keeps delivering. And during the years where the finances were such that it was hard for us to compete with City and Chelsea maybe that was a fairly reasonable deliverable. IMO now we have the finances to compete he should be delivering more.

Of course he's under pressure, from himself and from the board. Do you think that by endlessly repeating the statement that he's under no pressure that makes it true?
He's kept his job because he's delivered what the board expect although that may not entirely tally with what the fans expect or hope for.
Had he taken us into mid-table (as many predicted he would) for any length of time he'd have been long gone.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Oh are you saying those trophies aint real.?
Seriously, we are our own worst enemies or do it on purpose which is what I think is going on. Wenger prefers to buy average players or buys what he thinks ae potentially world class players. This gives him time to work with them before success gets to their heads or lack of it makes them know their place. You dont here Wilshere or Walcott complaining do you. He buys world class players only when the pressure is on and the coterie of average joes fail repeatedly. But never enough of the world class to make up for the dross. In many instances the better players will be watching the clunkers from the bench while Wenger weaves his magic with them.

If the manager is not hungry for titles and neither is the owner, then only the fans rarely can tip the balance.
In truth we have never been short of money only the will to spend it and the only person who kept on making the case that others spending hindered us was Wenger, which Leicester are about to prove conclusively, is not true.

If you think the stadium has had no impact on our finances, than i think all i can do is suggest you wait and see what Spurs end up spending over the next five-ten seasons, and how many of their current squad they will end up selling to other clubs.
Again not to immunise Wenger from criticism because there are at least two or three seasons where we had a squad good enough to win the title since moving to the Emirates and Wenger botched it.

[Letters]

True, except for the fact people aren't saying we should finish above Leicester because we have more money than them. We should finish above them because we've supposedly, got better players than them.
And why have we got better players than them...?

[Letters]

I hear Garde is avaliable......

So is Neville...

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's funny because I've explained to you over and over the pressure Wenger is under.
Like any employee he is under pressure to deliver what his bosses expect.
It seems that the board expects top 4 football of him which he keeps delivering. And during the years where the finances were such that it was hard for us to compete with City and Chelsea maybe that was a fairly reasonable deliverable. IMO now we have the finances to compete he should be delivering more.

Of course he's under pressure, from himself and from the board. Do you think that by endlessly repeating the statement that he's under no pressure that makes it true?
He's kept his job because he's delivered what the board expect although that may not entirely tally with what the fans expect or hope for.
Had he taken us into mid-table (as many predicted he would) for any length of time he'd have been long gone.

I don't think there is any pressure for him to push on and win major honours, everything i've read about Stan Kroenke and his ownership of Sports franchises on the other side of the Atlantic tells me that as long as we keep making money he will not care about anything else.
Will that be enough for Wenger though?....who knows....I suspect the reason he has been with us so long is not about the money (as everyone who knows him personally says that he is not motivated by enrichment) but because there really isn't anything else for him outside Football, is that an excuse for him to carry on in perpetuity without at least making a concerted run for the top trophies? No of course not but to suggest he doesn't care about us winning (which many people on here do) simply has no merit.

[Letters]

Ah but wait let's not forget we're already winners, 4th place winners and that's just as good as the CL or League, so let's not be disappointed and pat ourselves on the back for our trophy cabinet full of imaginary 4th placed trophies.
Yeah, we haven't won any trophies for...well, there was last year...and the year before actually...but those don't count #goalpostmoving.

And yes, we have plenty of money now and Wenger has been spending it, we're 3rd highest spenders over the last 3 years. Before that with the old financial deals we were restricted somewhat. I think Wenger could and should have spent more in that period but it's simplistic to say Wenger chooses not to spend money. He is, overall, too cautious IMO and his transfer dealings have been questionable but as soon as the new deals were in place he started spending money in a way he never had before.

[Kano]

It's funny because I've explained to you over and over the pressure Wenger is under.
Like any employee he is under pressure to deliver what his bosses expect.
It seems that the board expects top 4 football of him which he keeps delivering. And during the years where the finances were such that it was hard for us to compete with City and Chelsea maybe that was a fairly reasonable deliverable. IMO now we have the finances to compete he should be delivering more.

Of course he's under pressure, from himself and from the board. Do you think that by endlessly repeating the statement that he's under no pressure that makes it true?
He's kept his job because he's delivered what the board expect although that may not entirely tally with what the fans expect or hope for.
Had he taken us into mid-table (as many predicted he would) for any length of time he'd have been long gone.

But that assumption, like most things on here, isn't based on anything really tangible.

No-one in the club has ever said top four was the minimum, that is just what we as fans have placed as minimal expectation. Finishing mid-table is just an extreme opposing opinion, when in fact finishing 5/6th on a few occassions may well have had no impact on his position in the club.

[Letters]

I don't think there is any pressure for him to push on and win major honours, everything i've read about Stan Kroenke and his ownership of Sports franchises on the other side of the Atlantic tells me that as long as we keep making money he will not care about anything else.
Will that be enough for Wenger though?....who knows....I suspect the reason he has been with us so long is not about the money (as everyone who knows him personally says that he is not motivated by enrichment) but because there really isn't anything else for him outside Football, is that an excuse for him to carry on in perpetuity without at least making a concerted run for the top trophies? No of course not but to suggest he doesn't care about us winning (which many people on here do) simply has no merit.

I agree he's not under that kind of pressure. Our owners are money men, I don't think they're that bothered if we win titles. I do think Wenger puts himself under pressure to do that though.
But even as money men, finishing top 4 is a generator of a lot of it so I think he's under pressure to deliver that and he always has.
I don't think he's able to push us on any further so I think he should go, but there's still so much guff posted about him on here about how he doesn't care or isn't under any pressure at all or :blah:

[Letters]

But that assumption, like most things on here, isn't based on anything really tangible.

No-one in the club has ever said top four was the minimum, that is just what we as fans have placed as minimal expectation. Finishing mid-table is just an extreme opposing opinion, when in fact finishing 5/6th on a few occassions may well have had no impact on his position in the club.

It is an assumption, but it's a more rational one than many of the assertions Zim makes.
Even if our board only care about money, top 4 finishes are conducive to keeping that rolling in.
Maybe one season in 5th or 6th wouldn't have seen him face the chop but a couple of seasons in mid-table and my opinion is he'd have gone. Obviously I don't know that as he's always delivered top 4. But he's clearly meeting the board's targets, if he weren't he'd be out of a job, and like any employee at that level is under pressure to do so.

[Globalgunner]

If you think the stadium has had no impact on our finances, than i think all i can do is suggest you wait and see what Spurs end up spending over the next five-ten seasons, and how many of their current squad they will end up selling to other clubs.
Again not to immunise Wenger from criticism because there are at least two or three seasons where we had a squad good enough to win the title since moving to the Emirates and Wenger botched it.

Our revenues improved year on year the moment we opened the stadium. If your net income increases, how have you been harmed?. Do check yourself cos its true.

If a new bigger stadium is such a bad thing, why are other clubs rushing to do the same now.#thinkabout it.

[Niall_Quinn]

And why have we got better players than them...?

10 seasons of having 10 times the resources they have. But that's not just down to money. You could spend £250mill buying Sanogo, wouldn't win you a title. Or you can spend wisely, as Leicester have obviously done. The gypos have bought as many shitheaps as they have decent players. Utd have blown a fortune on crap. It's not just the money, it's how you use what you have to build the best you can build. This is where Wenger has been caught short and exposed. Doesn't matter how much or how little he has. It's what he lacks as a manager that holds us back. And this is the season that closes the book on him. This is where all his major excuses have been blown apart.

He's had plenty of money to get 11 players in the pitch who could have competed with the chavs or they gypos, who can only put 11 players on the field at any given time themselves. Make it a squad of 22 and he's still had the money to compete. He just won't spend it. Going on about 3rd highest net spends is bullshit. When you have left the team short season after season then you better be spending high to correct those problems. We should have been top net spend given the gaps that have developed. Last summer saw more of his excuses being crushed. Plenty of money - no striker. Plenty of money - Cazorla left as a crucial and irreplaceable component. No cover for Coquelin. 3rd higest net spend is still an underspend. The guy even had the nerve to tell us there was nothing better out there than what we had. He didn't say we had no money, he said the players we had were good enough. Another terrible misjudgement on his part.

The collapse against the gypos at the tail end of last season should have been a massive alert. It revealed the underlying commitment and ambition of this manager and this team. The collapse to tiny Leicester City and our regression compared to the spuds is Wenger building on the failures of the past. Failing to learn the obvious lessons. Persisting with methods and ideas that haven't worked, don't work and will never work.

How anyone can still be making excuses for this guy is amazing. This is supposed to be the top tier of professional sport. There's no time or place for maybe or almost men. He's so beyond his sell-by date he's starting to smell so bad even your Henry Winter types notice. But as we see, we still get the odd journo holding his nose and trotting out the same old crap. Wenger underachieved for every conceivable reason except a reason that is the fault of Wenger himself. Poor old Arsene. So unlucky.

[Letters]

Our revenues improved year on year the moment we opened the stadium. If your net income increases, how have you been harmed?. Do check yourself cos its true.

If a new bigger stadium is such a bad thing, why are other clubs rushing to do the same now.#thinkabout it.

Our revenues increased but do did our outgoings, ever spiralling wage demands and the stadium repayments.
Of course long term the stadium move was the right thing to do but there was short term belt tightening and it came right at the time the billionaires were having the biggest impact in the game.
Agree with HCZ, Wenger isn't immune from criticism, we should have won trophies before 2 years ago and probably a title or two. But the stadium move did initially have some impact on our ability to compete. With the new financial deals we should be more able to compete and so Wenger should be judged by different standards. The FA Cups were nice, got that monkey off our back, but this year he had a real chance to push us on and win a title and he's failed to do so. So yeah, he should go now but that doesn't mean everything in the last 10 years has been a failure. He's kept us up there, we've won a couple of trophies, now we need to find someone to push us on.

[Niall_Quinn]

I agree he's not under that kind of pressure. Our owners are money men, I don't think they're that bothered if we win titles. I do think Wenger puts himself under pressure to do that though.
But even as money men, finishing top 4 is a generator of a lot of it so I think he's under pressure to deliver that and he always has.
I don't think he's able to push us on any further so I think he should go, but there's still so much guff posted about him on here about how he doesn't care or isn't under any pressure at all or :blah:

Relatively speaking he's under zero pressure. Practically, any manager has a lot of pressure to bear. It's a tough job. But by comparison to a Maureen or Pellegrini or van Gaal and especially managers at clubs lower down the table, Wenger has the easiest ride imaginable. No requirement whatsoever to meet the sporting expectations of a big club like Arsenal. And his bosses (some of them selected by Wenger himself) say he's the greatest and should stay forever. Name one other manager in such a comfortable position. You can say that's because he's been here 20 years, but what a terrible reason. That's just a recipe for complacency. And stagnation.

And what do we have? Complacency, stagnation and failure.

How the hell has this guy managed to last so long? It's a joke.

[Letters]

10 seasons of having 10 times the resources they have. But that's not just down to money. You could spend £250mill buying Sanogo, wouldn't win you a title. Or you can spend wisely, as Leicester have obviously done. The gypos have bought as many shitheaps as they have decent players. Utd have blown a fortune on crap. It's not just the money, it's how you use what you have to build the best you can build. This is where Wenger has been caught short and exposed. Doesn't matter how much or how little he has. It's what he lacks as a manager that holds us back. And this is the season that closes the book on him. This is where all his major excuses have been blown apart.

He's had plenty of money to get 11 players in the pitch who could have competed with the chavs or they gypos, who can only put 11 players on the field at any given time themselves. Make it a squad of 22 and he's still had the money to compete. He just won't spend it. Going on about 3rd highest net spends is bullshit. When you have left the team short season after season then you better be spending high to correct those problems. We should have been top net spend given the gaps that have developed. Last summer saw more of his excuses being crushed. Plenty of money - no striker. Plenty of money - Cazorla left as a crucial and irreplaceable component. No cover for Coquelin. 3rd higest net spend is still an underspend. The guy even had the nerve to tell us there was nothing better out there than what we had. He didn't say we had no money, he said the players we had were good enough. Another terrible misjudgement on his part.

The collapse against the gypos at the tail end of last season should have been a massive alert. It revealed the underlying commitment and ambition of this manager and this team. The collapse to tiny Leicester City and our regression compared to the spuds is Wenger building on the failures of the past. Failing to learn the obvious lessons. Persisting with methods and ideas that haven't worked, don't work and will never work.

How anyone can still be making excuses for this guy is amazing. This is supposed to be the top tier of professional sport. There's no time or place for maybe or almost men. He's so beyond his sell-by date he's starting to smell so bad even your Henry Winter types notice. But as we see, we still get the odd journo holding his nose and trotting out the same old crap. Wenger underachieved for every conceivable reason except a reason that is the fault of Wenger himself. Poor old Arsene. So unlucky.

No, it's not just the money. But it has clearly had a massive impact on where the trophies have ended up.
When was the last time City or Chelsea won a title before they were bankrolled?
Three clubs have won titles since we last did, is it coincidence that they're the 3 clubs with the biggest chequebooks?
Yes, you can only field 11 players, but if you have enough money you can have £40m players sitting on the bench, you can buy up enough players to make yourself immune from injuries, you can outbid other clubs for players and stick them on the bench, or loan them out to a club who isn't a rival.

I reckon Wenger did pretty well to keep us in the top 4 in the era where the billionaires were having the biggest impact, but he could and should have done more. We should have won at least 1 title and probably a few other cups too. But that doesn't mean that the money wasn't a big factor, those two things are not contradictory. The new signings have had some impact, the two FA Cups were a good start. This season was a chance to push on - his final chance, for me - and he's failed. Finishing below Spurs and particularly Leicester is unacceptable. So yes, he should move on now. But that doesn't mean that everything he's done in the last 10 years has been wrong. Those two thoughts are not contradictory, "infallible genius" and "bumbling idiot" are not the only two possibilities.

[fakeyank]

He is an infallible idiot then

[Letters]

How the hell has this guy managed to last so long? It's a joke.
Because he's met his bosses targets. :shrug:

And yes, he's not under the level of pressure that a Chelsea manager would be but that club is a joke, I wouldn't want any Arsenal manager to be under that level of pressure.

He was a safe pair of hands during the stadium move, he deserved a chance to try and push us on when the new money became available - you clearly thought so too, you were happy he signed a new contract after the first FA Cup. Retaining the trophy arguably bought him another season to push for bigger prizes. He's failed to so yes, he needs to go, but that doesn't mean it's been 10 years of abject failure. And if you think the last 2 years have been ones of failure then I'd suggest that level of expectation comes pretty much entirely from Wenger's first half of his time with us.

[Letters]

He is an infallible idiot then

:lol: He never fails to be an idiot?

[Marc Overmars]

He's never been more of a bumbling idiot than he is now tbf.

[fakeyank]

:lol: He never fails to be an idiot?

Neva Eva

[Letters]

He's never been more of a bumbling idiot than he is now tbf.

That's not true, he's been doing the work of two men recently.




...Laurel and Hardy.

:rimshot:

Ronnie Corbett :bow:

:(

[Kano]

#10yearsbumblingidiottopfourincompetentfuckoffkroe nketwofacupstadiummovenopressurestagnationfinancia ldoping

http://orig05.deviantart.net/5982/f/2007/270/4/a/jump_off_a_cliff_by_death_au.gif

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Our revenues improved year on year the moment we opened the stadium. If your net income increases, how have you been harmed?. Do check yourself cos its true.

If a new bigger stadium is such a bad thing, why are other clubs rushing to do the same now.#thinkabout it.

Revenue only counts what comes into the club it does not factor in the money coming out of the club paying back for the stadiums construction.

But like I say all you have to do is see how Spurs spending is affected and make your mind up based on that

[Letters]

It will affect them but luckily for Spurs they're no in an era where players are changing hands for silly money.
Bale was what, £80m? That's a pretty large chunk of a stadium move right there. And the new TV deal will soften the blow for them too.
The stadium move was vital long term but caused some belt tightening short term.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That Bale money was almost exclusively spent on new signings, I doubt there is a lot of it left.

What works in their favour is that they are building a new stadium on the site of their current site (which we couldn't do) and apart from the construction costs they only have had to pay for the compulsory purchase orders to expand on WHL

Presumably therefore there won't be the "mortgage" of sorts that we had to take out.

They also won't be able to sell their own ground as luxury flats but that didn't go so well for us either

[Power n Glory]

Jonathan Wilson with a bizarre article that contradicts itself at every turn.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/31/arsenal-oligarchs-tv-billions

He actually uses Leicester as a comparison without realising the comparison blows his argument to shreds. Then he tells us being very rich is less of an advantage when everyone is rich. Well we were never paupers, were we?

These tired old excuses need to be retired.

I think the TV revenue money will play a part and the smaller clubs will benefit but I wouldn't argue we're seeing a huge influence from the new money right now. It certainly can't be used to explain their league position. They haven't been splashing money on World class players so it is a bit of a contradiction. I think it just boils down to better management. I'd say we're seeing better managers in the league and the standard has risen. Also, Wenger quite often gets out thought by certain lower league managers each season.

We've seen Spurs, Liverpool and even Chelsea under Ranieri and other odd seasons outspend us but we've come above them. Quality of the manager and players can't be discounted and we really shouldn't get carried away with what's happening this year. It's been an exceptionally bad season for all of the previous Prem champions and it mostly boils down to poor man management.

[selassie]

Because he's met his bosses targets. :shrug:

And yes, he's not under the level of pressure that a Chelsea manager would be but that club is a joke, I wouldn't want any Arsenal manager to be under that level of pressure.

He was a safe pair of hands during the stadium move, he deserved a chance to try and push us on when the new money became available - you clearly thought so too, you were happy he signed a new contract after the first FA Cup. Retaining the trophy arguably bought him another season to push for bigger prizes. He's failed to so yes, he needs to go, but that doesn't mean it's been 10 years of abject failure. And if you think the last 2 years have been ones of failure then I'd suggest that level of expectation comes pretty much entirely from Wenger's first half of his time with us.

Its not just Chelsea, all top "competitive" clubs put pressure on their managers to deliver, even the Spuds were sacking managers who weren't achieving top 4. Wenger is in a unique position, he's pretty much unsackable and works under little to no pressure in comparison to his rivals. Money or no money he's failing, like NQ has said I don't even know how that can be disputed.

Wenger should have delivered more trophies over the past 10 years, he's built some pretty decent teams to be fair. Despite that the same old flaws have resurfaced season after season, he should have been given the boot a while ago IMO.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

There is no doubt that Wenger does often get tactically out thought but there is also no question that money is the bigger contributor for league titles.

Man City have won the title with two incredibly average managers, Mourinho who is lauded as a genius as successful as he is isn't multi faceted with his tactics he just follows the philosophy against competitors that the less you have the ball the less likely you are to make a mistake.

Wenger has even adopted this measure at times with mixed success, but Mourinho has at Chelsea benefited from big spending and having good players as a result of expenditure from predecessors.

This season is an outlier in terms of spending not bringing success in the league, do I think if we spent more Wenger would necessarily do much better....possibly not.

But as far as I'm concerned as fed up as we are of Wenger, he'd have won the title with Man City in 2012 and in 2014 and probably more than that, not because he's a great manager but comparatively he is better than Mancini and Pellegrini.

[selassie]

There is no doubt that Wenger does often get tactically out thought but there is also no question that money is the bigger contributor for league titles.

Man City have won the title with two incredibly average managers, Mourinho who is lauded as a genius as successful as he is isn't multi faceted with his tactics he just follows the philosophy against competitors that the less you have the ball the less likely you are to make a mistake.

Wenger has even adopted this measure at times with mixed success, but Mourinho has at Chelsea benefited from big spending and having good players as a result of expenditure from predecessors.

This season is an outlier in terms of spending not bringing success in the league, do I think if we spent more Wenger would necessarily do much better....possibly not.

But as far as I'm concerned as fed up as we are of Wenger, he'd have won the title with Man City in 2012 and in 2014 and probably more than that, not because he's a great manager but comparatively he is better than Mancini and Pellegrini.

That's debatable, not the bit about Wenger being a better manager because I agree, the bit about whether he would have won the title at City in 2012 and 2014. Wenger is quite a complexed manager, he's not a standard type that will play players in their favoured positions, it's one of his quirks and in some ways is why his Arsenal teams go from the sublime to the ridiculous.

I'm not doubting that Money isn't a contributor to success, what I am doubting is that Wenger has money and quite clearly isn't spending it correctly or in our case this season not at all. Not only that but he's not correctly utilising what is quite clearly a talented squad of players.

The only handicaps Wenger has are ones he places on himself, he's not disadvantaged.

[Globalgunner]

Revenue only counts what comes into the club it does not factor in the money coming out of the club paying back for the stadiums construction.

But like I say all you have to do is see how Spurs spending is affected and make your mind up based on that

How can I make up my mind on something that has yet to happen. Rather look at what has already happened.

http://arsenaltrust.org/resources/documents/1309371731afcaccountscommentoct07.pdf

If you read that report for the year we moved into the Emirates. Yes our football related profit dropped by £4.2m but stll a profit. Not a loss. That sum is about than we were paying Diaby and Almunia. So basically money that we could afford to waste.
It is also pertinent to note that the report states that we had a cash balance of 73m out of which 45m was not available to spend. Also getting knocked out of the CL in the 1st round left us £10m short compared to the previous year when we reached the final

So never been broke, not even then. Just been buying mostly crap and playing crap players for years. Almunia FFS!. How do you expect to win anything with a joke of a keeper like that

Just picked this gem off another blog
Q. If Wenger was a superhero who would he be?
A. Supertightwad

[Power n Glory]

That's debatable, not the bit about Wenger being a better manager because I agree, the bit about whether he would have won the title at City in 2012 and 2014. Wenger is quite a complexed manager, he's not a standard type that will play players in their favoured positions, it's one of his quirks and in some ways is why his Arsenal teams go from the sublime to the ridiculous.

I'm not doubting that Money isn't a contributor to success, what I am doubting is that Wenger has money and quite clearly isn't spending it correctly or in our case this season not at all. Not only that but he's not correctly utilising what is quite clearly a talented squad of players.

The only handicaps Wenger has are ones he places on himself, he's not disadvantaged.

It's very debatable. I can't see Wenger handling all those egos. Besides that, Utd were hot on City's heels and the other season City won they had Liverpool and Chelsea close on their heels. We're currently 11 points behind Leicester City and we have World Cup winners, Champions League winners, experienced International's running through the club. In theory we have the better manager and players along with the revenue but lo and behold. ;) Cards couldn't have fallen any better for us this season. It makes no sense to assume we'd have done better with City's money in any other season.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

How can I make up my mind on something that has yet to happen. Rather look at what has already happened.

http://arsenaltrust.org/resources/documents/1309371731afcaccountscommentoct07.pdf

If you read that report for the year we moved into the Emirates. Yes our football related profit dropped by £4.2m but stll a profit. Not a loss. That sum is about than we were paying Diaby and Almunia. So basically money that we could afford to waste.
It is also pertinent to note that the report states that we had a cash balance of 73m out of which 45m was not available to spend. Also getting knocked out of the CL in the 1st round left us £10m short compared to the previous year when we reached the final

So never been broke, not even then. Just been buying mostly crap and playing crap players for years. Almunia FFS!. How do you expect to win anything with a joke of a keeper like that

Just picked this gem off another blog
Q. If Wenger was a superhero who would he be?
A. Supertightwad

I wasn't trying to suggest you should make up your mind right now

In my student days used to watch Adult Swim and a cartoon called Stripperella, and one of her nemesis' was a villain called Cheapo who in one of his bank raids makes his henchmen drive around looking for a place to park that didn't have a parking meter.

[Niall_Quinn]

But as far as I'm concerned as fed up as we are of Wenger, he'd have won the title with Man City in 2012 and in 2014 and probably more than that, not because he's a great manager but comparatively he is better than Mancini and Pellegrini.

Surely this is the whole point about Wenger? He'd have found a way to fuck it up. He's had several squads more than capable of winning a title and making a challenge in the PL. But each and every time he's done whatever it is he does that causes the squad to under perform at the critical moments. I think you could give him his pick of any 22 form any league and he still couldn't build a competitive team. Even the Invincibles under performed in the CL. He lacks the winner's instinct and the killer ambition of top managers. His focus is elsewhere, on some idealistic crusade for what he considers football ought to be. The whole sustainable crap thing is underpinned by that idealism and his willingness to make that a priority above all else. I reckon he'd have lost with those gypo squads, but he'd have made twice the profit. He wouldn't have bought half the players in the first place, remember he's the manager who almost signed every top player over the last 20 years. Almost. The only stumbling block was it would have cost money, and that's vulgar and unacceptable.

[Niall_Quinn]

I wasn't trying to suggest you should make up your mind right now

In my student days used to watch Adult Swim and a cartoon called Stripperella, and one of her nemesis' was a villain called Cheapo who in one of his bank raids makes his henchmen drive around looking for a place to park that didn't have a parking meter.

Wow, you're fucking crazier than me.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Surely this is the whole point about Wenger? He'd have found a way to fuck it up. He's had several squads more than capable of winning a title and making a challenge in the PL. But each and every time he's done whatever it is he does that causes the squad to under perform at the critical moments. I think you could give him his pick of any 22 form any league and he still couldn't build a competitive team. Even the Invincibles under performed in the CL. He lacks the winner's instinct and the killer ambition of top managers. His focus is elsewhere, on some idealistic crusade for what he considers football ought to be. The whole sustainable crap thing is underpinned by that idealism and his willingness to make that a priority above all else. I reckon he'd have lost with those gypo squads, but he'd have made twice the profit. He wouldn't have bought half the players in the first place, remember he's the manager who almost signed every top player over the last 20 years. Almost. The only stumbling block was it would have cost money, and that's vulgar and unacceptable.

With Aguero, Silva, Yaya Toure and Kompany in their prime Wenger would have found it hard to fuck it up, he had the squad there for him to use so no reason to play people out of position. Even with the collapse they are on now with the managerial vaccum, it would be hard to argue those players are not mentally stronger than our overpaid silky boys.
Wenger has bought in the wrong type of players for sure, and his skills as a motivator are dubious, but If Mancini and Pellegrini could win the title with City, Wenger could do it and then some.
Could he have won the title with United with their mainly average dross, no probably no but given a side where he hasn't hamstrung himself by missing out critical elements he'd have walked the league with a squad like City have, which is less of an endorsement of Wenger more a repudiation of the fact that City haven't retained the title

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Wow, you're fucking crazier than me.

Depends how you're judging crazy

[Power n Glory]

With Aguero, Silva, Yaya Toure and Kompany in their prime Wenger would have found it hard to fuck it up, he had the squad there for him to use so no reason to play people out of position. Even with the collapse they are on now with the managerial vaccum, it would be hard to argue those players are not mentally stronger than our overpaid silky boys.
Wenger has bought in the wrong type of players for sure, and his skills as a motivator are dubious, but If Mancini and Pellegrini could win the title with City, Wenger could do it and then some.
Could he have won the title with United with their mainly average dross, no probably no but given a side where he hasn't hamstrung himself by missing out critical elements he'd have walked the league with a squad like City have, which is less of an endorsement of Wenger more a repudiation of the fact that City haven't retained the title

What if Aguero, Silva, Yaya and Company out injured? Also, it's not as if Chelsea, Utd or even Liverpool were nothing teams. We're looking at one of the strongest teams Wenger has put together in years, with our rivals being at the weakest we've seen in years and it's currently impossible for us to finish on anything more that 79 points. With the team we have we should be walking the league but we're seeing some of the worst football we've seen under Wenger. We should be walking the league right now so explain how he's walk the league back then when competition was tougher?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We have great players in certain areas but we are far from a complete team, plus the squad depth of Man City would mean that short of an injury cataclysm they'd be covered.


Familiarity breeds contempt and I think whilst there are better managers out there than Wenger, the assumption that people make that almost any manager is better than him just doesn't hold. His failings are laid more bare because he takes on more responsibility at the club than any other manager does.
The guy hamstrings himself at Arsenal, but like I say if he was presiding over the squad at Man City and had no more responsibility than Mancini or Pellegrini had, had have fayred better than both.


End of the day it's largely all opinion, I think we sometimes over estimate the overall influence a manager has, since when did Claudio Ranieri become a tactical genius? In fact his entire managerial record is pretty poor but he's on the verge of achieving something that arguably surpasses what Clough did with Nottingham Forest.

[Kano]

We have great players in certain areas but we are far from a complete team, plus the squad depth of Man City would mean that short of an injury cataclysm they'd be covered.


Familiarity breeds contempt and I think whilst there are better managers out there than Wenger, the assumption that people make that almost any manager is better than him just doesn't hold. His failings are laid more bare because he takes on more responsibility at the club than any other manager does.
The guy hamstrings himself at Arsenal, but like I say if he was presiding over the squad at Man City and had no more responsibility than Mancini or Pellegrini had, had have fayred better than both.


End of the day it's largely all opinion, I think we sometimes over estimate the overall influence a manager has, since when did Claudio Ranieri become a tactical genius? In fact his entire managerial record is pretty poor but he's on the verge of achieving something that arguably surpasses what Clough did with Nottingham Forest.

What Ranieri has done is maintain momentum from Pearson's turnaround at the end of last season. Tactically he has bowed to the team, he is on record as saying that the squad asked him not to mess around with the formula they had found in the last ten games of last season, so his infamous 'tinkerman' hasn't come to the fore. Ranieri has done fanatically well at managing the squad and keeping them mentally sharp but just as much praise has to go to Pearson. But compared to Clough? No way. Two back-to-back European Cups and a league title in an era when the best teams hadn't fallen to the wayside like the big boys have this season. Nottingham's very first Euro game was against the then mighty Liverpool, reigning EC champions and of course they beat them. What Leicester are doing is amazing but if they were doing it against a prime time Utd, Chelsea and City, then I think the Clough comparison would be justified.

[Marc Overmars]

We have great players in certain areas but we are far from a complete team, plus the squad depth of Man City would mean that short of an injury cataclysm they'd be covered.


Familiarity breeds contempt and I think whilst there are better managers out there than Wenger, the assumption that people make that almost any manager is better than him just doesn't hold. His failings are laid more bare because he takes on more responsibility at the club than any other manager does.
The guy hamstrings himself at Arsenal, but like I say if he was presiding over the squad at Man City and had no more responsibility than Mancini or Pellegrini had, had have fayred better than both.
.

I'm not sure, I think it's evident this team is poorly coached and of course Wenger needs to take the bullet for that, especially because he's had years to fine tune his team. City have generally played some of the best football in the league over the past few seasons, despite their cock ups. Their managers have at the very least been able to extract the quality needed from their players and play them to their strengths.

We on the other hand turn struggle to create any decent passages of play and have become about as one dimensional as it gets. Wenger is great manager but his inflexible approach and failure to identify weaknesses in the team until it's too late tells me he's not a great coach anymore.

[Power n Glory]

We have great players in certain areas but we are far from a complete team, plus the squad depth of Man City would mean that short of an injury cataclysm they'd be covered.


Familiarity breeds contempt and I think whilst there are better managers out there than Wenger, the assumption that people make that almost any manager is better than him just doesn't hold. His failings are laid more bare because he takes on more responsibility at the club than any other manager does.
The guy hamstrings himself at Arsenal, but like I say if he was presiding over the squad at Man City and had no more responsibility than Mancini or Pellegrini had, had have fayred better than both.


End of the day it's largely all opinion, I think we sometimes over estimate the overall influence a manager has, since when did Claudio Ranieri become a tactical genius? In fact his entire managerial record is pretty poor but he's on the verge of achieving something that arguably surpasses what Clough did with Nottingham Forest.

What exactly are Leicester City and Spurs working with? Superior teams with more depth? Do you think Wenger would have won the league with their squads?

I'm not assuming any old manager can do better than Wenger, I'm just looking at his past record, his flaws and going off that. We have a very poor injury record so that's something to consider. I've never seen him manage a situation where two massive egos are battling for one spot. Take the RB situation as an example. Debuchy starts of well for us, gets injured and loses his place to young Bellerin. Debuchy's upset about losing his place and can't earn it back because when given the opportunity he looks a total liability. What does Wenger do to remedy the situation? Sends Debuchy out on loan which leaves us short on defensive cover. He won't keep an unhappy player in the squad and can't turn their frustration into motivation so it weakens us. That's just the RB situation. I think 2008 when we were on our title run, Wenger sold Diarra because he was unhappy about not playing and that had an effect on how we ended the season. These are small nothing players so I can’t see him managing a squad full of egos well or keeping them ready on form.

[Letters]

Wenger should have delivered more trophies over the past 10 years, he's built some pretty decent teams to be fair. Despite that the same old flaws have resurfaced season after season, he should have been given the boot a while ago IMO.
I think he did pretty well in the era when we had to belt tighten somewhat while the billionaires were having the biggest impact. I agree he should have won more in that time though and it's increasingly clear he's not able to take us any further. What people seem not to acknowledge is the flaws we're seeing now which are hurting us have ALWAYS BEEN THERE. He wasn't a genius of a manger in the first half of his time with us and then suddenly a bumbling idiot. Like anyone, he has strengths and weaknesses. His strengths revolutionised the club when he first joined us - the fitness methods, the knowledge of the European game. Other clubs have caught up and arguably overtaken us so he's lost his edge. But that doesn't mean that he's suddenly an idiot and that the last 10 years have been an abject failure.

[selassie]

I think he did pretty well in the era when we had to belt tighten somewhat while the billionaires were having the biggest impact. I agree he should have won more in that time though and it's increasingly clear he's not able to take us any further. What people seem not to acknowledge is the flaws we're seeing now which are hurting us have ALWAYS BEEN THERE. He wasn't a genius of a manger in the first half of his time with us and then suddenly a bumbling idiot. Like anyone, he has strengths and weaknesses. His strengths revolutionised the club when he first joined us - the fitness methods, the knowledge of the European game. Other clubs have caught up and arguably overtaken us so he's lost his edge. But that doesn't mean that he's suddenly an idiot and that the last 10 years have been an abject failure.

I think he at times did well to get us a top 4 finish with some of the squads he built, but other times I think he had strong enough squads to actually win PL even though he was up against the financial dopers.

I do agree with the basis of what you are saying and he did most definitely have flaws in his early days even though back then we were unquestionably a great team that he built so I give him huge credit for that.

I don't think he's a bumbling idiot, I think he's too principle driven and not pragmatic enough, he just doesn't seem to have that "win at all costs mentality" that I felt he had in the early days. This season is a prime example, in theory he has been more or less handed the title, he will never get an easier chance to win PL yet the way he reacted to media questioning was of a man that plainly believes he is doing the best job he can. If this is the best he can offer us then he has to go, it's pitiful.

The last 10 years haven't been abject failure but they have been a lot closer to failure than success, he has achieved 2 FA Cup wins in the last 10 years, that's not good enough if you look at it objectively.

[Letters]

More or less agree with that :good:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think our wage bill suggested we had more to spend than what we did, clearly we didn't have the spending power of Chelsea, United and City (and in fact we don't now) but I think the fact when talking about Lewandowski and lamenting that he could have got him for 500k shows that there is a big element of hubris in his reluctance to spend, that and ultra conservatism.
I think he literally believed that he could get a squad as good as Barcelona on a shoestring budget.

I think he also likes the idea of signing players no one has heard of so he gets the credit from turning them from obscurity into stars, and with people having long ago caught him up on scouting youth players the only players he can get for cut price deals are shit (like poor gangly Yaya Sanogo).

And because the title squad he built had more natural mental strength in it, through maturity (such as the back four he inherited) he has been used to taking a back seat and taking a laisse faire approach with in game management and many of his players now are overgrown kids who don't have that strength of mind from within.

[Munchies]

Have you guys seen this video?

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/arsenal/story/2841011/arsene-wenger-no-surprise-ill-be-at-arsenal-next-season

'No surprise'

Damn right FFS, untouchable

[Niall_Quinn]

Have you guys seen this video?

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/arsenal/story/2841011/arsene-wenger-no-surprise-ill-be-at-arsenal-next-season

'No surprise'

Damn right FFS, untouchable

If he can share his happiness with you then even better.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

But if not too fucking bad

Sepp Blatter syndrome

[Kano]

Have you guys seen this video?

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/arsenal/story/2841011/arsene-wenger-no-surprise-ill-be-at-arsenal-next-season

'No surprise'

Damn right FFS, untouchable

Time to wake the fuck up sunshine